bhuey | schestowitz: I hope that what I said was interesting | Sep 22 00:00 |
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*yuhong (n=chatzill@pool-173-64-154-25.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 22 00:00 | |
bhuey | it's fine IMO now. I have to talk to miguel just to make sure that this isn't going to be taken as an insult by then | Sep 22 00:01 |
bhuey | them | Sep 22 00:01 |
yuhong | From http://books.google.com/books?id=YzAEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA23&dq=infoworld+kildall+interview#v=onepage&q=infoworld%20kildall%20interview&f=false: | Sep 22 00:01 |
oiaohm | KDE is stopping chasing the Windows. They are now adding more and more useful features. | Sep 22 00:01 |
fewa | how can you chase something which isn't moving? | Sep 22 00:02 |
yuhong | "Yeah--a lot of things about the business part of things. I don't play bridge." | Sep 22 00:03 |
schestowitz | bhuey: still at Sun? | Sep 22 00:03 |
bhuey | schestowitz: no, novell. Might end up at RH | Sep 22 00:03 |
yuhong | "I am not a competive person." | Sep 22 00:03 |
bhuey | schestowitz: but I was at NetApp so I know ZFS in a different perspective | Sep 22 00:04 |
schestowitz | Oh. | Sep 22 00:04 |
schestowitz | Oops. | Sep 22 00:04 |
schestowitz | bhuey: yes, they sue not | Sep 22 00:04 |
bhuey | schestowitz: I got laid-off from Novell in November under good relations in a rather elite group doing virtualization amoungst other things :) | Sep 22 00:04 |
schestowitz | You left Sun before the chaos. | Sep 22 00:04 |
schestowitz | http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2009/091609-oracle-sun-deal-delivers-mostly.html?fsrc=rss-linux-news | Sep 22 00:04 |
bhuey | schestowitz: never was at Sun | Sep 22 00:05 |
schestowitz | Oh | Sep 22 00:05 |
yuhong | Already I could tell what would happen if DR won the IBM PC contract instead of MS. | Sep 22 00:05 |
schestowitz | I got confused there, sorry. | Sep 22 00:05 |
bhuey | Sun was suing NetAppt | Sep 22 00:05 |
schestowitz | I thought you said something about Sun | Sep 22 00:05 |
schestowitz | bhuey: no, both ways | Sep 22 00:05 |
bhuey | NetApp crossed sued them | Sep 22 00:05 |
bhuey | schestowitz: yes, now | Sep 22 00:05 |
schestowitz | NetApps sued over zfs | Sep 22 00:05 |
schestowitz | Unless there was something beforehand | Sep 22 00:05 |
schestowitz | Sun then countersued | Sep 22 00:05 |
bhuey | schestowitz: I use to work on the Java VM heavily at BSDi | Sep 22 00:06 |
bhuey | I got my start as a BSD engineer | Sep 22 00:06 |
schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&c2coff=1&q=site%3Aboycottnovell.com+netapp&aq=f&oq=&aqi= | Sep 22 00:06 |
bhuey | and worked with Sun to get it running on BSD/OS and FreeBSD | Sep 22 00:06 |
schestowitz | BSD suffered a blow when Microsoft agitated Yahoo! | Sep 22 00:06 |
bhuey | I was the dude that got the HotSpot VM working on the BSDs, a big deal | Sep 22 00:06 |
schestowitz | Yang chose BSD when he was there in Stanford with Augustin and others | Sep 22 00:07 |
bhuey | schestowitz: bill.huey@gmail.com if you want to ever get in touch with me | Sep 22 00:07 |
schestowitz | Thanks a lot! | Sep 22 00:07 |
schestowitz | The good news is that there's lots of market grab to do | Sep 22 00:07 |
schestowitz | Microsoft's next Windows has many problems, marketing aside. | Sep 22 00:08 |
bhuey | schestowitz: yeah I'm not a fan of Windows | Sep 22 00:08 |
schestowitz | Red Hat is hiring now | Sep 22 00:08 |
schestowitz | 300 new hires | Sep 22 00:08 |
bhuey | don't even have a Windows machinere | Sep 22 00:08 |
schestowitz | Me neither. I don't have the need | Sep 22 00:08 |
schestowitz | It's still the same | Sep 22 00:08 |
bhuey | schestowitz: yeah, I need to finish my scheduler project before asking for a job from them | Sep 22 00:08 |
schestowitz | Like XP with a darker theme and some bloat | Sep 22 00:08 |
bhuey | between my Linux boxes and Macbook | Sep 22 00:09 |
yuhong | I would not go that far. | Sep 22 00:09 |
bhuey | I don't need windows | Sep 22 00:09 |
schestowitz | It still comes with IE. Not much of an attraction... | Sep 22 00:09 |
yuhong | I do dual-boot, BTW. | Sep 22 00:09 |
yuhong | Running Vista and not going to upgrade to 7 anytime soon. | Sep 22 00:09 |
schestowitz | Linux-UNIX 'wars' are back because of Apple | Sep 22 00:10 |
schestowitz | On the desktop anyway...... | Sep 22 00:10 |
schestowitz | Not devices or servers. | Sep 22 00:10 |
yuhong | Yep, I know about Mac OS X. | Sep 22 00:10 |
oiaohm | Its been funny the arm 8 core processor is being looked at as a server processor. | Sep 22 00:10 |
schestowitz | "It puts the Linux phenomenon and the Unix phenomenon at the top of the list." --Steve Ballmer, 2001 | Sep 22 00:10 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Grand jury? "A Texas court affirms the right of a judge and a prosecutor who slept together to condemn a man to death" http://ur1.ca/c3o9 | Sep 22 00:10 | |
oiaohm | If arm damages the large server market it will kinda leave MS open. | Sep 22 00:11 |
oiaohm | To even worse attack. | Sep 22 00:11 |
yuhong | Dual-booting with Ubuntu 9.04 and planning on upgrade to 9.10. | Sep 22 00:11 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: they can run WInCE on the servers :-) | Sep 22 00:11 |
yuhong | Funny. | Sep 22 00:11 |
oiaohm | Arm was targeting netbooks with 8 core version. | Sep 22 00:11 |
schestowitz | What for? | Sep 22 00:12 |
schestowitz | Too much power | Sep 22 00:12 |
yuhong | Running Linux right now. | Sep 22 00:12 |
schestowitz | KDE4 is fine with one core | Sep 22 00:12 |
oiaohm | 8 core only uses 1.5 watts schestowitz | Sep 22 00:12 |
oiaohm | At full load. | Sep 22 00:12 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: is arm tickless? | Sep 22 00:13 |
schestowitz | enabled I mean? | Sep 22 00:13 |
oiaohm | Lot more than just tickless | Sep 22 00:13 |
schestowitz | DOes it do scaling like in phones? | Sep 22 00:13 |
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oiaohm | Automatically turns on and off sections of the cpu. | Sep 22 00:13 |
schestowitz | Intel has to redo x86 | Sep 22 00:13 |
schestowitz | SPARC was an issue to them | Sep 22 00:13 |
oiaohm | So only the sections you need for the command the cpu is processing is eating power. | Sep 22 00:13 |
schestowitz | Who knows what Oracle will do with it | Sep 22 00:13 |
cubezzz | speaking of ARM, does any ARM cpu have FPU? | Sep 22 00:14 |
oiaohm | Arm cpu design does not give FPU a different instructions set. | Sep 22 00:14 |
schestowitz | jono bacon: I hear next Ubuntu will be Mighty Mouse | Sep 22 00:14 |
oiaohm | Yes Arm cpus can do floating point native. | Sep 22 00:14 |
trmanco | lol | Sep 22 00:15 |
yuhong | Personally, I don't feel Vista or 7 is bad, but it does not make MS's astroturfing any less ethical, of course: | Sep 22 00:15 |
yuhong | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/09/21/cheating-and-distortion-win7/ | Sep 22 00:15 |
trmanco | mighty mouse ha | Sep 22 00:15 |
schestowitz | Paul Terry might sue over trademarks, jono http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mighty_Mouse | Sep 22 00:16 |
oiaohm | Vista 7 I have a few people I know hooked on it. | Sep 22 00:16 |
schestowitz | yuhong: why should I buy Vista 7? | Sep 22 00:16 |
schestowitz | What does it give me? | Sep 22 00:16 |
schestowitz | As a Linux user? | Sep 22 00:16 |
schestowitz | Or hypothetical XP user | Sep 22 00:16 |
yuhong | Personally, I am on Vista, and no I am not planning to upgrade to 7. | Sep 22 00:16 |
schestowitz | Why would you? | Sep 22 00:17 |
schestowitz | What's in 7? | Sep 22 00:17 |
yuhong | I won't. | Sep 22 00:17 |
schestowitz | I know | Sep 22 00:17 |
yuhong | I will install Vista SP2 instead. | Sep 22 00:17 |
schestowitz | It's rhetorical | Sep 22 00:17 |
fewa | yuhong, do you use Linux too? | Sep 22 00:17 |
yuhong | Yes. | Sep 22 00:17 |
oiaohm | That is the problem MS has yuhong | Sep 22 00:17 |
schestowitz | Maybe the code has been tightened a bit | Sep 22 00:17 |
oiaohm | MS needs income. | Sep 22 00:17 |
schestowitz | To use less RAM and CPU, but Vista was a bad gorilla... | Sep 22 00:17 |
oiaohm | No income less maintaince. | Sep 22 00:17 |
fewa | although Vista has so much of the DRM groundwork laid | Sep 22 00:18 |
schestowitz | Just removing cruft doesn't change the OS | Sep 22 00:18 |
oiaohm | We are already starting to see mainttaince stress. | Sep 22 00:18 |
yuhong | And on Linux side I am planning to upgrade to Ubuntu 9.10. | Sep 22 00:18 |
fewa | DRM=evil | Sep 22 00:18 |
oiaohm | The question is how fast will the maintaince stress get worse. | Sep 22 00:18 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: how many in Red Hat work on RHEL 3 and 4? | Sep 22 00:18 |
schestowitz | They need to patch Linux 2.4 also | Sep 22 00:18 |
yuhong | Wait while I bring up another IRC log on DRM. | Sep 22 00:18 |
oiaohm | RHEL does free upgrades if issue maintaince slips inside support time schestowitz | Sep 22 00:19 |
oiaohm | So that would mean everyone with XP should get Vista at least if MS cannot support XP to follow RHEL system. | Sep 22 00:20 |
*jono has quit ("Later, Skater") | Sep 22 00:20 | |
oiaohm | Ie you are supported with RHEL for the time they promise no matter what. | Sep 22 00:20 |
schestowitz | Evolution 2.28.0 released!! < http://chenthill.wordpress.com/2009/09/21/evolution-2-28-0-released/ > | Sep 22 00:21 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: but they still have like an 8-year patching windows | Sep 22 00:21 |
schestowitz | *Window | Sep 22 00:21 |
schestowitz | So some clients insist on "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" | Sep 22 00:22 |
oiaohm | In that 8 years. | Sep 22 00:22 |
schestowitz | There are also old embedded kernels based on RHEL | Sep 22 00:22 |
oiaohm | They must do the patches or give free upgrades. | Sep 22 00:22 |
schestowitz | You can't just upgrade firmware on just /some/ products | Sep 22 00:22 |
oiaohm | That is what they agree to. | Sep 22 00:22 |
schestowitz | Ah, K | Sep 22 00:23 |
oiaohm | Ok embed stuff that is makers problem of not including update system. | Sep 22 00:23 |
bhuey | schestowitz: thanks, out of here | Sep 22 00:23 |
bhuey | btw, NetApp isn't anti-open source | Sep 22 00:23 |
schestowitz | Nice talking to you! | Sep 22 00:23 |
schestowitz | bhuey: I know | Sep 22 00:23 |
bhuey | the CTO is very pro Linux | Sep 22 00:23 |
bhuey | you have more to worry about Sun than NetApp | Sep 22 00:24 |
schestowitz | But it's some guy who did a boycott netapp thing | Sep 22 00:24 |
bhuey | NetApp wants to be left alone to work on their stuff and little else | Sep 22 00:24 |
schestowitz | To be left alone means leaving the lawyers away | Sep 22 00:24 |
oiaohm | Basically with redhat I had old redhat 7.3 I got upgrade to 8 due to updates not being done fully in the 8 year window. Redhat very rarely fails to keep system maintained for the 8 years. | Sep 22 00:24 |
schestowitz | And letting people just write code | Sep 22 00:24 |
schestowitz | NetApp brought in the legal department | Sep 22 00:25 |
bhuey | I use to work in the WAFL group so I know that they're working on making the volumes bigger, etc... that's more important than pickng a bitch fight with Sun | Sep 22 00:25 |
oiaohm | thinking most of the time Redhat does not have to create the patches. | Sep 22 00:25 |
oiaohm | Just import and build the now software. | Sep 22 00:25 |
bhuey | schestowitz: it was more complicated than that | Sep 22 00:25 |
cubezzz | oiaohm, on this one I don't think I have VFP | Sep 22 00:25 |
schestowitz | bhuey: well, lawyers love it | Sep 22 00:25 |
schestowitz | It's like construction companies at times of war | Sep 22 00:25 |
bhuey | schestowitz: the patent thing is complicated, it's a kind of mutual destruction thing | Sep 22 00:25 |
schestowitz | Haliburton | Sep 22 00:25 |
bhuey | that's what's going on | Sep 22 00:25 |
bhuey | right | Sep 22 00:26 |
bhuey | NetApp can't really let up until there's a judgement because they can't let Sun hold patents over their heads | Sep 22 00:26 |
oiaohm | MS biggest problem is they have to 100 percent support there code base. | Sep 22 00:26 |
bhuey | Johnathan has misrepresented the problem as open source versus NetApp which it isn't | Sep 22 00:26 |
oiaohm | So making 10 years of support expensive to do. | Sep 22 00:26 |
oiaohm | Compared to Linux distributions where the 8 years of support is shared between them. | Sep 22 00:27 |
oiaohm | And with companies using it. | Sep 22 00:27 |
bhuey | ok out of here. later | Sep 22 00:27 |
*bhuey has quit ("leaving") | Sep 22 00:27 | |
oiaohm | People don't under stand how many fixes redhat gets from its users. | Sep 22 00:27 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Pure-Sensia/?kc=rss | Sep 22 00:27 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: they are #1 patcher | Sep 22 00:28 |
schestowitz | The only think more enjoyable than Linux news now is MSFT news. They win nada, they mess up all the time | Sep 22 00:29 |
schestowitz | I remember how different it was in 2006 when Microsoft could still throw some parties | Sep 22 00:29 |
oiaohm | Look closer. Lot of patches from redhat are not redhat internally developed patches. | Sep 22 00:31 |
yuhong | Sorry for the long delay, but here it is: | Sep 22 00:31 |
yuhong | http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/irc-log-16092009.html | Sep 22 00:31 |
oiaohm | But redhat tested patches from other parties. | Sep 22 00:31 |
yuhong | DRM-free is IMPOSSIBLE on Blu-Ray, but possible on HD DVD! | Sep 22 00:31 |
oiaohm | Open Source makes long term support of a product cheaper. | Sep 22 00:31 |
schestowitz | Can you point to the message? | Sep 22 00:32 |
schestowitz | You can link to particular lines | Sep 22 00:32 |
oiaohm | DRM-free is not impossiable on Blu-Ray | Sep 22 00:32 |
schestowitz | See the times are hyperlinks | Sep 22 00:32 |
oiaohm | You can burn Blu-Ray disks not encrpyted and still play them in blueray players yuhong | Sep 22 00:33 |
yuhong | Yes, I mentioned that later, I was talking about replication. | Sep 22 00:33 |
yuhong | http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/irc-log-16092009.html#tSep%2016%2001:32:21 | Sep 22 00:33 |
schestowitz | "I am wondering if we should not blame the OS vendors for DRM "anti-features", blaming Hollywood instead for demanding them." | Sep 22 00:33 |
schestowitz | I think it's different | Sep 22 00:33 |
schestowitz | Hollywood sued Apple and Microsoft | Sep 22 00:34 |
schestowitz | Or threatened to around 2005 | Sep 22 00:34 |
oiaohm | It also will become possiable to decode blu ray in video card. | Sep 22 00:34 |
schestowitz | So they were bullied into DRM to an extent | Sep 22 00:34 |
schestowitz | Linux doesn't have this problem | Sep 22 00:34 |
oiaohm | The path we are on is nasty. | Sep 22 00:34 |
schestowitz | You can't sue Linux | Sep 22 00:34 |
oiaohm | Stop doing the decoding in cpu | Sep 22 00:34 |
oiaohm | Move decoding in gpu. | Sep 22 00:34 |
oiaohm | So making ripping harder. | Sep 22 00:34 |
yuhong | Interesting, since that is usually treated as a performance optimization. | Sep 22 00:35 |
oiaohm | Its both yuhong | Sep 22 00:35 |
oiaohm | gpu can decode it better than cpu. If drm gets added to gpu cpu access the decoded data can become impossiable. | Sep 22 00:36 |
yuhong | But yes, a good idea. | Sep 22 00:36 |
oiaohm | There was no need for the OS to support DRM. | Sep 22 00:36 |
oiaohm | Hardware could have been doing it. | Sep 22 00:36 |
yuhong | Interesting idea B | Sep 22 00:37 |
cubezzz | ET phone home | Sep 22 00:37 |
cubezzz | or XP phone home | Sep 22 00:37 |
fewa | or Vista phone home | Sep 22 00:37 |
fewa | and if it fails | Sep 22 00:37 |
fewa | user=criminal | Sep 22 00:37 |
oiaohm | We are already heading down that path yuhong | Sep 22 00:37 |
fewa | criminal is the default | Sep 22 00:38 |
yuhong | Yep , I know. | Sep 22 00:38 |
oiaohm | With encrypted between screen and video card breaking it is even more of a pain in but. | Sep 22 00:38 |
fewa | if you don't pay your protection money your computer your computer will stop functioning | Sep 22 00:38 |
yuhong | Guilty until proven innocent. | Sep 22 00:38 |
fewa | yuhong, 1 sec | Sep 22 00:38 |
oiaohm | There are even some ideas around to do the decode inside the screen it self. | Sep 22 00:38 |
oiaohm | So making it simple for users to update the drm support. | Sep 22 00:39 |
oiaohm | Ok expensive but simple. | Sep 22 00:39 |
yuhong | But my point was that if Linux was to be certified for Blu-Ray, probably some of the anti-features would be need to be added to Linux too. | Sep 22 00:39 |
fewa | yuhong, http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=187200796 | Sep 22 00:39 |
oiaohm | Not at all yuhong | Sep 22 00:39 |
fewa | the M$ press: "Users May Have To Prove Legal Windows Use" | Sep 22 00:39 |
*jono (n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 22 00:39 | |
fewa | ie Guilty until proven innocent | Sep 22 00:39 |
oiaohm | There are already cerfited blu-ray players running Linux. | Sep 22 00:40 |
fewa | or guilty until agrees to pay their protection money | Sep 22 00:40 |
trmanco | http://www.phpclasses.org/blog/post/101-ShishKabab-PHP-IDE.html | Sep 22 00:40 |
oiaohm | They use chip decoding yuhong | Sep 22 00:40 |
fewa | and its a complete misrepresentation of the events | Sep 22 00:40 |
yuhong | Can you give me some links. | Sep 22 00:40 |
oiaohm | This is when I wish I was in the Office. | Sep 22 00:41 |
fewa | and the press is trying to manufacture consent | Sep 22 00:41 |
fewa | pretend what MS is doing is just dandy, OK | Sep 22 00:41 |
oiaohm | I would be able to go over to the parts catalog right now and give you the parts numbers. | Sep 22 00:41 |
fewa | preempt people natural repugnance | Sep 22 00:41 |
oiaohm | Simple issue here lot of players of blueray don't have large enough cpu's to process blueray | Sep 22 00:41 |
fewa | repugnance at being treated like a criminal just to use their own hardware | Sep 22 00:41 |
oiaohm | So depend on a decoding and rendering chip to do the job. | Sep 22 00:42 |
cubezzz | I'm pretty careful about what hardware I buy | Sep 22 00:42 |
yuhong | Afterwards, I talked about whether DRM-free was possible, and looked like HD DVD was better in this area than Blu-Ray. | Sep 22 00:42 |
oiaohm | So as long as the chip follows the rules the OS does not yuhong | Sep 22 00:42 |
fewa | yuhong, yarp | Sep 22 00:42 |
fewa | Blu-ray has DRM-mandatory features | Sep 22 00:42 |
yuhong | Yep. | Sep 22 00:42 |
fewa | its anti-competitive to its bone | Sep 22 00:43 |
cubezzz | no need to go out and buy blu-ray stand-alone | Sep 22 00:43 |
schestowitz | I was just thinking..... since corps are tyrannical by nature, it would be insane to ever blame Novell engineers for /anything/... but it's people at the top (the tyrants) who don't practice democracy and have no veto against them. That's why BIllG and SteveB can be shown in so many E-mail having the final say about crime. | Sep 22 00:43 |
trmanco | http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Konversation?content=9927 | Sep 22 00:43 |
trmanco | beta1 is here | Sep 22 00:43 |
fewa | and would be completely obsolete if bandwidth didn't suck so much, esp. in the US | Sep 22 00:43 |
cubezzz | do we have any Novel peeps here? :) | Sep 22 00:43 |
cubezzz | I'm guessing not | Sep 22 00:43 |
yuhong | What was even more embarrassing was that it seems that schestowitz did not realize HD DVD was better in DRM-free than Blu-Ray. | Sep 22 00:44 |
fewa | schestowitz, corporations are the anti-thesis to the market | Sep 22 00:44 |
fewa | they essentially governments | Sep 22 00:44 |
fewa | the big ones | Sep 22 00:44 |
fewa | governments that just shove their expenses onto others | Sep 22 00:44 |
fewa | and internalize the greatest profits, with no moral compasses--because they are not alive | Sep 22 00:45 |
fewa | if you kill someone, you are put in jail | Sep 22 00:45 |
yuhong | http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/irc-log-16092009.html#tSep%2016%2003:07:15 | Sep 22 00:45 |
fewa | but if 10 people incorporate--and then one puts out the bannana peel, the other puts a knife in the wall next to that area | Sep 22 00:45 |
fewa | etc | Sep 22 00:45 |
oiaohm | schestowitz: depends just because you are an engineer you don't have to put you name behind stupidity. Mignel is guilt of that. | Sep 22 00:45 |
cubezzz | btw, back in the late 80's I didn't feel any anti-SCO sentiment | Sep 22 00:46 |
fewa | then supposedly you can't sue any of these people, none are responsible | Sep 22 00:46 |
oiaohm | In correct | Sep 22 00:47 |
fewa | oiaohm, yep, like frm. Attorney General Ashcroft | Sep 22 00:47 |
cubezzz | I felt uneasy about Microsoft even back then though | Sep 22 00:47 |
schestowitz | trmanco: that's juicy code | Sep 22 00:47 |
oiaohm | Incorrect fewa | Sep 22 00:47 |
*schestowitz goes to make some food | Sep 22 00:47 | |
trmanco | what is? | Sep 22 00:47 |
fewa | when he came and just made a total fool of himself | Sep 22 00:47 |
schestowitz | ShishKabab-PHP-IDE.html | Sep 22 00:47 |
oiaohm | The one who drop the bannana peel would be in trouble. for tripping hazard. | Sep 22 00:47 |
trmanco | LOL | Sep 22 00:47 |
schestowitz | fewa: Free market is the darling of Big Business | Sep 22 00:48 |
trmanco | From what I saw from the screenshots, it's made in qt | Sep 22 00:48 |
schestowitz | They don't like rules | Sep 22 00:48 |
fewa | schestowitz, if it is enforced | Sep 22 00:48 |
yuhong | The better multinationals has better moral compasses, and don't just shove their expenses onto others, and internalize the greatest profits, of course. | Sep 22 00:48 |
schestowitz | But they try to market "free market" as good for 'the people' | Sep 22 00:48 |
yuhong | They are not prefect. | Sep 22 00:48 |
yuhong | MS is one of the worse ones, Google is one of the better ones. | Sep 22 00:49 |
oiaohm | Cisco systems has one of the best moral compasses on everything bar china. | Sep 22 00:49 |
schestowitz | fewa: they make up their rules as they go along | Sep 22 00:50 |
schestowitz | They agree with 'each other' (collusion) | Sep 22 00:50 |
oiaohm | Cisco systems have 3 phone centers around the world about 8 hours apart so on one has to do night shift on phones. | Sep 22 00:50 |
fewa | schestowitz, there was that discussion with zlg the other day | Sep 22 00:50 |
schestowitz | E.g.: | Sep 22 00:50 |
fewa | he assumed he could get me for something | Sep 22 00:50 |
schestowitz | "We newspapers need bailout" | Sep 22 00:50 |
schestowitz | "We need paygates" | Sep 22 00:50 |
schestowitz | "We need software patents" | Sep 22 00:50 |
schestowitz | ..... | Sep 22 00:50 |
yuhong | "shove their expenses onto others and internalize the greatest profits, with no moral compasses" | Sep 22 00:50 |
yuhong | That reminds of shareholder value, another freaking mess altogether | Sep 22 00:50 |
fewa | when i said that the government has no legitimate interest in regulating what I do with a device | Sep 22 00:50 |
fewa | then he agreed with me | Sep 22 00:50 |
cubezzz | ?? | Sep 22 00:51 |
schestowitz | fewa: "zlg" is mutex | Sep 22 00:51 |
fewa | I would think someone like him would spin that into that they can sell anything, with any DRM | Sep 22 00:51 |
fewa | schestowitz, yes | Sep 22 00:51 |
schestowitz | He's out | Sep 22 00:51 |
cubezzz | zilog is still here | Sep 22 00:51 |
fewa | it was actually a interesting discussion | Sep 22 00:51 |
fewa | he kept making totally wrong arguments | Sep 22 00:51 |
schestowitz | Oh | Sep 22 00:51 |
*schestowitz has kicked zilog from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Sep 22 00:51 | |
cubezzz | yeah but he was getting anti-FOSS | Sep 22 00:51 |
schestowitz | Not anymore | Sep 22 00:51 |
fewa | definitely troll stuff | Sep 22 00:51 |
cubezzz | that's why I kicked him yesterday | Sep 22 00:52 |
trmanco | heh | Sep 22 00:52 |
fewa | http://pastebin.com/f6b67111b | Sep 22 00:52 |
trmanco | gn guys | Sep 22 00:52 |
oiaohm | Diabo i find worse than mutex | Sep 22 00:52 |
fewa | I just had to start on the offensive | Sep 22 00:52 |
cubezzz | he wouldn't answer my operating system question :) | Sep 22 00:52 |
schestowitz | trmanco: run your bot | Sep 22 00:52 |
fewa | and then it was easy to argue him | Sep 22 00:52 |
oiaohm | mutex normally does not personally attack people. | Sep 22 00:52 |
trmanco | schestowitz: on what? | Sep 22 00:52 |
schestowitz | He sort of does | Sep 22 00:52 |
fewa | run him into the corner | Sep 22 00:52 |
schestowitz | He had many nyms | Sep 22 00:52 |
fewa | read the log | Sep 22 00:53 |
cubezzz | oiaohm, yeah he's a bit rough | Sep 22 00:53 |
schestowitz | trmanco: smackbot | Sep 22 00:53 |
oiaohm | Insulting people does not build understanding. | Sep 22 00:53 |
schestowitz | Not that... | Sep 22 00:53 |
fewa | I thought that discussion was actually productive | Sep 22 00:53 |
schestowitz | He implied I compared something to Nazis, falsely | Sep 22 00:53 |
cubezzz | he was basically saying people don't need source code | Sep 22 00:53 |
trmanco | I need to put it on a server to run it | Sep 22 00:53 |
fewa | I have a belief (perhaps naieve) that some of these trolls dont understand the ideas | Sep 22 00:53 |
schestowitz | So he tried to pass me off as rude and dangerous | Sep 22 00:53 |
fewa | they just say from the gut whatever will benifit their side | Sep 22 00:54 |
fewa | its a form of tribalism | Sep 22 00:54 |
cubezzz | schestowitz, I must have missed that | Sep 22 00:54 |
fewa | but if you very adamentally state your position then they will understand | Sep 22 00:54 |
schestowitz | He's here to spy and cause trouble | Sep 22 00:54 |
fewa | or at least decide to get another job | Sep 22 00:54 |
oiaohm | Thinking mutex works for a closed source company idea of giving up source code is counter to nature. | Sep 22 00:54 |
cubezzz | I mean, who is he? A microsoft guy or what? | Sep 22 00:54 |
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fewa | oiaohm, exactly, its just reactionary arguments | Sep 22 00:54 |
oiaohm | Non MS cubezzz | Sep 22 00:55 |
fewa | but if you say what the real issues are they realize they cant fight it | Sep 22 00:55 |
fewa | at least as long as people have access to the truth | Sep 22 00:55 |
oiaohm | He works for a company doing custom monitering systems cubezzz | Sep 22 00:55 |
schestowitz | "cheese" is back and it smells like a pond | Sep 22 00:55 |
oiaohm | So unix and windows are there base of existance. | Sep 22 00:55 |
*cubezzz nods | Sep 22 00:55 | |
fewa | and to keep hitting them with that will break them | Sep 22 00:55 |
fewa | with bring sensibility and reasonableness | Sep 22 00:55 |
yuhong | http://it.slashdot.org/story/09/09/21/1859238/The-Perils-of-Ramming-Products-Down-ITs-Throat | Sep 22 00:56 |
fewa | Its like Martin Luther King and racism | Sep 22 00:56 |
fewa | that was his strategy | Sep 22 00:56 |
oiaohm | Not all anti opensource have to be linked to MS. | Sep 22 00:56 |
fewa | making people face the issues | Sep 22 00:56 |
cubezzz | oiaohm, that's true | Sep 22 00:56 |
oiaohm | There are a lot more closed source companies out there. | Sep 22 00:56 |
oiaohm | Nvidia is always a funny one. | Sep 22 00:56 |
oiaohm | They try to be Linux friendly. | Sep 22 00:56 |
oiaohm | But always wants to keep secrets. | Sep 22 00:56 |
yuhong | Yep, and MS attacks even some of them. | Sep 22 00:56 |
fewa | because _Mutex_ is defending wrong things like DRM and TC | Sep 22 00:56 |
oiaohm | DRM and TC are releated to his line of work. | Sep 22 00:57 |
fewa | and I don't actually think some closed source companies really believe in these things: they just see it as a way of defending their businesses | Sep 22 00:57 |
fewa | A way of defending their nests | Sep 22 00:57 |
fewa | so you have to fight back with reason | Sep 22 00:57 |
yuhong | DR, Borland, Netscape were all closed source companies that MS attacked. | Sep 22 00:57 |
oiaohm | Yep. | Sep 22 00:57 |
oiaohm | yuhong: there are a lot more closed source companyes MS has never touched. | Sep 22 00:58 |
fewa | Its Manufactured Consent's primary thesis | Sep 22 00:58 |
fewa | the good runs out the bad | Sep 22 00:58 |
yuhong | Of course. | Sep 22 00:58 |
fewa | MS wins cause they are the worst | Sep 22 00:58 |
cubezzz | ok, I'm going to show you a little list I compiled | Sep 22 00:58 |
oiaohm | Scarry enough a lot in water management yuhong | Sep 22 00:58 |
fewa | except until others realize the emporer has no clothes | Sep 22 00:59 |
oiaohm | Yes something that is more scary than MS. | Sep 22 00:59 |
fewa | that MS power is a bag of sand | Sep 22 00:59 |
cubezzz | http://maxhost.org/cubeman/ms_dirtytricks.txt | Sep 22 00:59 |
oiaohm | If a lot of these closed source water management systems plays up lot of people can die. | Sep 22 00:59 |
oiaohm | Far more than MS. | Sep 22 00:59 |
fewa | oiaohm, eek, you should spread the word | Sep 22 00:59 |
fewa | oiaohm, write a guest article in boycottnovell.com | Sep 22 01:00 |
fewa | people want to read that type of stuff | Sep 22 01:00 |
oiaohm | Its water power and the list goes on. | Sep 22 01:00 |
fewa | but just write about this one issue | Sep 22 01:00 |
oiaohm | there is no requirement that the source code has to be released in there contracts. | Sep 22 01:00 |
fewa | don't worry about the other for a moment | Sep 22 01:00 |
fewa | oiaohm, they were doing that with voter programs | Sep 22 01:00 |
oiaohm | People don't ask for them to checkable. | Sep 22 01:00 |
fewa | oiaohm, in my state their was a programmer who ran for office because of this | Sep 22 01:01 |
cubezzz | the free scada stuff is interesting though | Sep 22 01:01 |
fewa | because while slot machines have public source, voting machines didn't | Sep 22 01:01 |
fewa | it was corrupt to its core | Sep 22 01:01 |
oiaohm | Way the voter contracts were written for the USA are standard business contracts for aquiring software. | Sep 22 01:01 |
oiaohm | When you wake up to that is not everything critical scary. | Sep 22 01:01 |
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oiaohm | Huge black boxes. | Sep 22 01:02 |
yuhong | I know about voting machines. | Sep 22 01:02 |
oiaohm | Voting machines water power basically everything that can be computer controlled could have its software aquired by that kind of contract yuhong | Sep 22 01:02 |
oiaohm | As a consumer you don't have to even be told that you are depending on a black box. | Sep 22 01:02 |
yuhong | And on DR, from http://books.google.com/books?id=YzAEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA23&dq=infoworld+kildall+interview#v=onepage&q=infoworld%20kildall%20interview&f=false: | Sep 22 01:03 |
cubezzz | I don't think we have ever used computer voting machines in Canada | Sep 22 01:03 |
oiaohm | Voting machines are the only ones that are starting to get rules. | Sep 22 01:03 |
fewa | this guy http://www.jasonosgood.com/ | Sep 22 01:03 |
fewa | working to get accountable election in Washington State | Sep 22 01:03 |
fewa | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDJVVzCXgKk | Sep 22 01:04 |
yuhong | "Yeah--a lot of things about the business part of things. I am not a competitive person. I don't play bridge." | Sep 22 01:04 |
cubezzz | I'm sure the code must be audited | Sep 22 01:04 |
yuhong | Already I could tell what would happen if DR won the IBM PC contract back in 1980 instead of MS. | Sep 22 01:04 |
yuhong | Thanks Google Books for making back issues of InfoWorld available. | Sep 22 01:04 |
oiaohm | MS won because they were the cheeper contract. | Sep 22 01:05 |
oiaohm | And were classed as good enough. | Sep 22 01:05 |
oiaohm | Linux is starting to move into the good enough class for a lot of people. | Sep 22 01:05 |
cubezzz | Kildall would have been very rich :) | Sep 22 01:05 |
Zilog | SCADA Systems are essentually OPEN Source, the client will provide a detailed functional description of the operation of the plant, or system. Which is essentually a series of PV's and SP's (process variables and Set Points). The SCADA Systems engineering contractor is then required to "code" that plant/factory into the PLC's, and design a GUI for the supervisory section. So it is quite open for the client. | Sep 22 01:05 |
yuhong | Not exactly, MS won because IBM tried DR, but failed, which was another story altogether. | Sep 22 01:06 |
oiaohm | Not in all cases Zilog | Sep 22 01:06 |
Zilog | in most | Sep 22 01:06 |
yuhong | Anyway, compare with Bill Gates, and seee my point. | Sep 22 01:07 |
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oiaohm | It should be a regulatorly requirement for critical structs Zilog | Sep 22 01:07 |
fewa | absolutely | Sep 22 01:08 |
fewa | anything critical must have source available | Sep 22 01:08 |
fewa | and should have the whole version control backup | Sep 22 01:08 |
fewa | all the history | Sep 22 01:08 |
Zilog | the SCADA system is an analog of the physical plant, it is a virtual mirror, so the regularotary requirements are inherent in the overall design, but I get your point. It's a very regulated field as well. | Sep 22 01:09 |
oiaohm | Its like saying most voting system are open source. While there is no a regulatorly requirement for it some bad operaters will close it. | Sep 22 01:10 |
oiaohm | Its just a section of regulation that has been overlooked. | Sep 22 01:10 |
oiaohm | Yes in such a regulated field is supprising it got over looked. | Sep 22 01:11 |
Zilog | the design and layout and structure of critical SCADA systems are not made public knowledge, simply because of security issues. | Sep 22 01:12 |
oiaohm | I did not say made public | Sep 22 01:12 |
oiaohm | open source does not have to equal public. | Sep 22 01:12 |
Zilog | true | Sep 22 01:12 |
oiaohm | Just that the source code must be provided along with the binaries to the end user. | Sep 22 01:13 |
oiaohm | Ie the company you made the SCADA system for. | Sep 22 01:14 |
yuhong | Corporations aren't really like government. | Sep 22 01:14 |
oiaohm | Depends on the Corporation. | Sep 22 01:14 |
oiaohm | And the goverment. | Sep 22 01:14 |
Zilog | Yes, in the documentation of the system we provide all the source code for their system, in hard and soft form, after all they paid me alot to write it. it's theirs. | Sep 22 01:15 |
oiaohm | Not all companies do that Zilog | Sep 22 01:15 |
oiaohm | Some want support contracts and other evils. | Sep 22 01:15 |
Zilog | that may be true, but ours did. | Sep 22 01:16 |
oiaohm | Ie closed source black mail. | Sep 22 01:16 |
Zilog | which is probably why it's the biggest and best in the country :) | Sep 22 01:16 |
oiaohm | I am not thinking just yours Zilog | Sep 22 01:16 |
oiaohm | You only need one rouge to cause some large problems. | Sep 22 01:16 |
oiaohm | Even for your setups. | Sep 22 01:16 |
Zilog | Sure, we had that too, even for a company that does make it fully available to the customer, we have a rogue employee who ended up in prison for hacking and causing a 100,000ltl sewage spill in a Qld turest resort | Sep 22 01:17 |
yuhong | http://it.slashdot.org/story/09/09/21/1859238/The-Perils-of-Ramming-Products-Down-ITs-Throat | Sep 22 01:18 |
yuhong | About MS. | Sep 22 01:18 |
yuhong | Hyper-V in particular. | Sep 22 01:19 |
oiaohm | I was refering to other companyes not employees that your customers could be depending on for something. Brought to a grinding halt by something that cannot be fixed. Zilog | Sep 22 01:19 |
oiaohm | Source code provide is critical to stablity of important systems. | Sep 22 01:19 |
fewa | Must be a law for open-source in critical business | Sep 22 01:20 |
Zilog | we got around that in our area by providing the complete service right down to the design and manufacture of the RTU's and PLC's. Hardware, firmware, software ,application, integration, System engineering, install, maintenance, if you go Ad Hoc you can expect to have more problems | Sep 22 01:21 |
fewa | if it is not fallowed then those than company that did not get the source is liable for all negligence | Sep 22 01:21 |
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fewa | and the person who made such a determination | Sep 22 01:21 |
oiaohm | That is the laws we need fewa. | Sep 22 01:23 |
fewa | anything else will cause great mistakes to be made | Sep 22 01:23 |
oiaohm | As Zilog knows there is still lots of cash even without closed source binaries. | Sep 22 01:23 |
fewa | and no ability to blame those responsible | Sep 22 01:23 |
fewa | and no ability to determine disturbers | Sep 22 01:24 |
fewa | and those who try to do harm | Sep 22 01:24 |
fewa | you see this "terrorism" stuff is 100% poliitical | Sep 22 01:24 |
oiaohm | If you want to destroy a city. | Sep 22 01:25 |
cubezzz | security is definitely necessart | Sep 22 01:25 |
oiaohm | Hit the water treatment plant. | Sep 22 01:25 |
fewa | its not about making people safe, its about Oil, and in Afghanistan: controlling the opium market | Sep 22 01:25 |
oiaohm | Most terrists are idiots. | Sep 22 01:25 |
fewa | most accused "terrorists" are journalists | Sep 22 01:25 |
fewa | and those who speak out against the state | Sep 22 01:25 |
Zilog | yes, you can do real bad things if you can hit SCADA plants, our systems are never "on the net". | Sep 22 01:26 |
fewa | they are political exclusions | Sep 22 01:26 |
Zilog | Some have dial in though | Sep 22 01:26 |
oiaohm | Just watch out for the stupid laptop with wireless internet connect. | Sep 22 01:26 |
oiaohm | Had that happen on one of the systems that I was finding out how it got infected. | Sep 22 01:27 |
oiaohm | It was not on the net but the laptop connected to down load data was. | Sep 22 01:27 |
Zilog | that is a common mistake we dont make either, the SCADA system and the companies LAN/Network are never connected. | Sep 22 01:27 |
Zilog | As much as managements begs us too., | Sep 22 01:28 |
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oiaohm | So you don't have 1 way data relay boxes. | Sep 22 01:28 |
oiaohm | So they can monitor but not change. | Sep 22 01:28 |
Zilog | thats all we have is basically zero access, views, if that. | Sep 22 01:28 |
Zilog | SMS, and Email alerting as well. | Sep 22 01:29 |
oiaohm | 1 way data relay boxes are quite simple to make. | Sep 22 01:29 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] "10%of $ from the US government that is for non-military activities flowing into #Afghanistan …upwards of $150M/day" http://ur1.ca/c3sc #war | Sep 22 01:29 | |
oiaohm | I have used them to protect stuff like credit card data on web sites as well Zilog | Sep 22 01:30 |
Zilog | with carefull use of "user rights management" you can give clients quite alot of access with the amount you can change from zero to everything, depending on your right. But the supervisory computers are not physically on the same network as the company/corporate net. | Sep 22 01:33 |
oiaohm | I do a lot of shadow networks. Like backup storage networks. Yet connected to the main network but most of the time data entering there is one way so in case of breach what is old records cannot be got at. | Sep 22 01:35 |
oiaohm | user rights with that stuff is not a major head ache. I do hate doing the reverse. | Sep 22 01:37 |
Zilog | SCADA systems everything I mean everything is logged, and backed up, so you can go back years and find out why a certain valve opened, what operaters were on shift, who was loged onto the system, exactly what each operator did and when. They keep it all. | Sep 22 01:37 |
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CaptainCanuck | looking for a distro like but not ubuntu. fedora doesnt work with my box | Sep 22 01:40 |
oiaohm | Major question why does it not work with your box. | Sep 22 01:40 |
CaptainCanuck | since ubuntu has mono, its a pissoff | Sep 22 01:40 |
CaptainCanuck | idk it hangs when logging in | Sep 22 01:41 |
oiaohm | So kernel runs. | Sep 22 01:41 |
oiaohm | and hardware detects? | Sep 22 01:41 |
CaptainCanuck | yes | Sep 22 01:41 |
oiaohm | Ok that makes it simpler. | Sep 22 01:41 |
oiaohm | There are a lot of Ubuntu releations out there without mono. | Sep 22 01:41 |
oiaohm | any particular preference for wm? | Sep 22 01:42 |
oiaohm | Windows manager. | Sep 22 01:42 |
CaptainCanuck | gnome or kde | Sep 22 01:43 |
CaptainCanuck | not xfce | Sep 22 01:43 |
oiaohm | Ok kde mint is not bad. | Sep 22 01:43 |
oiaohm | Ubuntu kernel is under it. | Sep 22 01:44 |
CaptainCanuck | hmm isnt mint like windows? | Sep 22 01:44 |
oiaohm | mint is very much stock standard kde with only very minor alterations. | Sep 22 01:45 |
cubezzz | what part of Canada, Captain? | Sep 22 01:45 |
oiaohm | If you think not altered kde looks like windows ok. | Sep 22 01:45 |
CaptainCanuck | t.o | Sep 22 01:46 |
CaptainCanuck | oiaohm: rephrase last line? | Sep 22 01:47 |
CaptainCanuck | toronto | Sep 22 01:47 |
oiaohm | Lot of people look at the kde layout and say it looks like windows. | Sep 22 01:47 |
oiaohm | Even that is not exactly a new layout. | Sep 22 01:47 |
cubezzz | you can see most distros here: http://www.osdisc.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi/index.html | Sep 22 01:48 |
oiaohm | kubuntu trys to reshape kde to look like gnome. So lot of people lost what kde really looks like. | Sep 22 01:48 |
oiaohm | I still remember the one here were zdnet australia went around with a stock KDE on the street and people blieved it was the next version of windows CaptainCanuck | Sep 22 01:52 |
CaptainCanuck | lol ok | Sep 22 01:55 |
CaptainCanuck | sry for my ignorance :) | Sep 22 01:55 |
oiaohm | You are not alone CaptainCanuck | Sep 22 01:56 |
CaptainCanuck | thats the sad truth | Sep 22 01:56 |
oiaohm | I am quite liking kde 4.3 | Sep 22 01:57 |
fewa | *Gonzalez, not Ashcroft | Sep 22 01:58 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] $10 Million award after man's #health #insurance coverage was canceled after he tested HIV+ Spr Court:"reprehensible" http://ur1.ca/c3wc #hc | Sep 22 02:43 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] $10 Million award after man's #health #insurance coverage was canceled when he tested HIV+ Spr Court:"reprehensible" http://ur1.ca/c3wc #hc | Sep 22 02:46 | |
CaptainCanuck | inb4 health insurance debate | Sep 22 02:50 |
fewa | ? | Sep 22 02:54 |
oiaohm | With advances in medical care 10 million pay out to an aids infected person might be cheep. | Sep 22 02:54 |
fewa | ^^^^^ | Sep 22 02:54 |
fewa | where "advances" means more expensive | Sep 22 02:54 |
fewa | ==patented life-saving drugs | Sep 22 02:55 |
oiaohm | Not only drugs. | Sep 22 02:55 |
fewa | and 30% profit and overhead in the private insurance companies | Sep 22 02:55 |
oiaohm | Cost to operate on an AID infected person is far more expensive than non infected person. | Sep 22 02:55 |
fewa | in the US | Sep 22 02:55 |
Zilog | oiaohm, everyone is assumed to be positive these days. | Sep 22 02:56 |
fewa | Zilog, wtf??? | Sep 22 02:56 |
oiaohm | No for elective you are tested Zilog | Sep 22 02:57 |
oiaohm | And other planed operations. | Sep 22 02:57 |
oiaohm | Emerency has to operate on that people coming in is infected with everything. | Sep 22 02:57 |
fewa | Zilog, == Telstra Internet == _Mutex_ | Sep 22 02:58 |
Zilog | yes, and until they test you they assume you are positive, and standard procedures are "aids" safe regardless of if you have it or not. | Sep 22 02:58 |
fewa | Zilog == misinformation junkie | Sep 22 02:58 |
fewa | hes been doing it all day | Sep 22 02:58 |
fewa | just read the logs | Sep 22 02:58 |
oiaohm | With a postive test operation room has to operate differently. Including full clean before and after operation. | Sep 22 02:59 |
Zilog | allright they dont then, they dont wear gloves and so on, fine | Sep 22 02:59 |
Zilog | IDGAF | Sep 22 02:59 |
oiaohm | Aids person is more open to infection. | Sep 22 02:59 |
fewa | Zilog, whos paying you・ | Sep 22 02:59 |
oiaohm | And less able to recover from it. | Sep 22 02:59 |
fewa | Zilog, who do you work for? | Sep 22 02:59 |
oiaohm | So operating on them and keeping them alive is harder. | Sep 22 03:00 |
oiaohm | Minor stuff that is harmless to a normal person is not to aids infected. | Sep 22 03:00 |
Zilog | Im independently wealthy, and run my own business, (and mind my own bisiness). | Sep 22 03:00 |
oiaohm | Same has to be done with people with an natrally weak white cell count. | Sep 22 03:01 |
oiaohm | Cost is almost tribble due to the extras. | Sep 22 03:01 |
fewa | Zilog, is your business being a private contractor? | Sep 22 03:01 |
Zilog | fewa, what have I been doing all night ? | Sep 22 03:02 |
fewa | Zilog, been watching this channel for schestowitz to go to sleep | Sep 22 03:02 |
Zilog | fewa what it is is MY business | Sep 22 03:02 |
fewa | Zilog, so you could troll this channel | Sep 22 03:02 |
fewa | Zilog, I don't think you would do it without getting paid | Sep 22 03:02 |
Zilog | sure, whatever. | Sep 22 03:02 |
fewa | or but so dedicated to doing it | Sep 22 03:02 |
oiaohm | Note emergcy only class people as aids infected from the point of doctor protection. | Sep 22 03:03 |
fewa | you have trolled this channel for months | Sep 22 03:03 |
oiaohm | They don't alter the treatment to give aids infected best chance of living. | Sep 22 03:03 |
Zilog | oiaohm, yes | Sep 22 03:04 |
oiaohm | Now when you are treating aids infected with best chance of them living. | Sep 22 03:04 |
oiaohm | Its expensive. | Sep 22 03:04 |
Zilog | yes | Sep 22 03:04 |
oiaohm | what insurance companies would have to be paying form time to time. | Sep 22 03:05 |
oiaohm | If they still had the aids person on there books. | Sep 22 03:05 |
oiaohm | 10 million might end up cheep compared to the person life and operation costs. | Sep 22 03:05 |
oiaohm | Let along drugs or anything else. | Sep 22 03:06 |
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DaemonFC | looks like Google Apps have managed to lure more people away from MS Office than OpenOffice | Sep 22 03:17 |
oiaohm | Most likely combination DaemonFC | Sep 22 03:19 |
oiaohm | Counting copies of installed OpenOffice is hard. | Sep 22 03:20 |
DaemonFC | Doesn't Google Docs let you edit docx files? | Sep 22 03:20 |
CaptainCanuck | yes | Sep 22 03:20 |
DaemonFC | OOo really doesn't unless you get the Novell extension | Sep 22 03:20 |
DaemonFC | even that isn't guaranteed to be trouble free | Sep 22 03:20 |
CaptainCanuck | ? no ooo can edit docx natively | Sep 22 03:20 |
CaptainCanuck | "natively" | Sep 22 03:20 |
DaemonFC | it has import filters, but no export filter | Sep 22 03:21 |
cubezzz | a good reason to not use doc | Sep 22 03:21 |
oiaohm | Even google docs don't guaranteed to be trouble free editing docx | Sep 22 03:21 |
DaemonFC | their goal is to get you to import docx but only be able to save it as ODT | Sep 22 03:21 |
CaptainCanuck | y would u export to docx anyway? | Sep 22 03:21 |
oiaohm | It will import and convert. | Sep 22 03:21 |
oiaohm | Ie google will not like return docx | Sep 22 03:22 |
oiaohm | It will return either old doc or odf happly. | Sep 22 03:22 |
oiaohm | Currently no one not even MS can process docx correctly. | Sep 22 03:22 |
DaemonFC | http://docs.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=50092&hl=en | Sep 22 03:22 |
DaemonFC | docx is supported | Sep 22 03:23 |
oiaohm | Untill you go and use it. | Sep 22 03:23 |
oiaohm | And find out google is as unhappy processing it as anyone else. | Sep 22 03:24 |
oiaohm | OpenOffice has kept the export filter out because its not dependable. | Sep 22 03:25 |
oiaohm | Some of your original formatting may not be preserved. << Don't forget reading this warning DaemonFC | Sep 22 03:27 |
oiaohm | It really does apply heavly to google processing docx | Sep 22 03:28 |
DaemonFC | that's what you get with two competing formats that both have implementation gaps | Sep 22 03:28 |
DaemonFC | and fuzzy parts of the "standard" | Sep 22 03:28 |
cubezzz | docx is a microsoft invention yes? | Sep 22 03:28 |
DaemonFC | cubezzz, Yes | Sep 22 03:28 |
DaemonFC | OOXML support in Office 2007 is not correct, and ODF standard has some problems too | Sep 22 03:28 |
DaemonFC | even if you implement the standard, there's still some gray areas | Sep 22 03:29 |
oiaohm | ODF support in MS Office is screwed. | Sep 22 03:29 |
oiaohm | They cross breed it with OOXML | Sep 22 03:29 |
DaemonFC | probably the worst parts of ODF..... | Sep 22 03:29 |
DaemonFC | "OASIS ODF 1.0, 1.1 and ISO/IEC 26300:2006 do not define a definite spreadsheet formula language, syntax or function libraries" | Sep 22 03:29 |
oiaohm | Doing that does not make gray. | Sep 22 03:30 |
DaemonFC | "The OpenDocument specifications OASIS ODF 1.0, 1.1 and ISO/IEC 26300:2006 do not support the use of tables in presentations" | Sep 22 03:30 |
oiaohm | Yet 1.2 draft does. | Sep 22 03:30 |
DaemonFC | "The OpenDocument Format 1.0–1.1 specifications refer to 'ZIP' files but do not reference an ISO standard which describes the zip file format." | Sep 22 03:30 |
DaemonFC | ZIP is not a standard | Sep 22 03:30 |
oiaohm | formula language was defined before. | Sep 22 03:30 |
DaemonFC | ZIP format is still only described by PKWare | Sep 22 03:31 |
oiaohm | ISO standards don't have to duplicate in them well defined fileformats. | Sep 22 03:31 |
oiaohm | Zip is a well defined fileformat just not been put forward to ISO. | Sep 22 03:32 |
DaemonFC | so it relies on a proprietary format that has no ISO standard attached to it | Sep 22 03:32 |
oiaohm | Lot of the 1.0 and 1.1 errors were already addressed in the 1.2 draft. | Sep 22 03:32 |
oiaohm | No not being ISO does not make it proprietray. | Sep 22 03:33 |
oiaohm | ZIP is techincally public domain. | Sep 22 03:33 |
oiaohm | ISO does not demard public domain items be listed in ISO to be used in ISO standards. | Sep 22 03:33 |
oiaohm | MS guys pulling faults out of ODF were idiots in places. | Sep 22 03:34 |
oiaohm | There was no need to cross breed in parts that the draft covered. | Sep 22 03:35 |
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oiaohm | Lot of MS arguments about ODF are nothing more than a smoke screen to cover up there lack of willing ness to work on completing the standard of ODF and there will to break it up. | Sep 22 03:36 |
DaemonFC | I'm probably going to get a new laptop soon | Sep 22 03:42 |
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DaemonFC | the old Sempron-based one is just too damned slow | Sep 22 03:42 |
DaemonFC | It's almost 5 years old and has lived it's useful lifespan | Sep 22 03:42 |
DaemonFC | I may go Intel this time, but it just depends | Sep 22 03:43 |
DaemonFC | one thing is for sure though, I don't want to get one now and have to deal with another express upgrade program | Sep 22 03:44 |
DaemonFC | that XP to Vista one was godawful | Sep 22 03:44 |
DaemonFC | 6 weeks in the mail, and come to find out I only got the Home Basic edition, and I ended up keeping that system on XP | Sep 22 03:45 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, http://www.pcworld.com/article/171961/linux_web_server_botnet_scarier_than_regular_botnets.html?loomia_ow=t0:s0:a41:g26:r28:c0.000003:b27869474:z0 | Sep 22 03:46 |
DaemonFC | "A security researcher has discovered a cluster of infected Linux servers that have been corralled into a special ops botnet of sorts and used to distribute malware" | Sep 22 03:46 |
fewa | yep | Sep 22 03:53 |
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let me guess, they were located in Redmond -> DaemonFC: "A security researcher has discovered a cluster of infected Linux servers... | Sep 22 04:01 | |
DaemonFC | probably command and control servers | Sep 22 04:02 |
why would they bother to root those? it's so much easier for them to use the botnet itself for command and control | Sep 22 04:02 | |
I mean who thinks, "I've got 10,000 computers worth of bandwith. Now I need to root a real computer to control them." ??? | Sep 22 04:03 | |
DaemonFC | probably someone living in a country where there are laws | Sep 22 04:04 |
DaemonFC | and didn't want to make it obvious that it was them doing it | Sep 22 04:04 |
well, that's why they distribute the control structure | Sep 22 04:04 | |
instead of using a single point of failure and guilt capture | Sep 22 04:05 | |
isn't that the point of a botnet in the first place? | Sep 22 04:05 | |
it's only the dumbest of "tech journalists" and their flock that still believes theres a real difference between a "server" and a the desktop in front of them. | Sep 22 04:06 | |
M$ marketing blither created the false distinction | Sep 22 04:06 | |
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so this is how people continue to fall for the "gnu/linux is going to be used to control botnets" nonsense. | Sep 22 04:07 | |
fewa | Those that Those who have put out the peoples eyes reproach them of their blindness - John Milton 1642 | Sep 22 04:10 |
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So, now I know what complete crap .NET is. | Sep 22 04:39 | |
I've been using it at work for the last six months without realizing it. | Sep 22 04:40 | |
It's more of the same buggy junk from the M$ and the .NET stuff is even buggier than older software was. | Sep 22 04:40 | |
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DaemonFC | I don't use many .Net apps | Sep 22 04:47 |
cubezzz | twitter, do you get to use Linux at work at all? | Sep 22 04:48 |
I did not think I used any .NET apps. They look just like the same old same old left overs from the late 90s. | Sep 22 04:48 | |
The company uses Linux and BSD without knowing it. | Sep 22 04:49 | |
wallclimber | Has anyone visited Groklaw this evening? There's a members only post regarding Bilski, it's very very interesting | Sep 22 04:49 |
I use what they have. | Sep 22 04:49 | |
but no, I can't use software I want on my desk. | Sep 22 04:49 | |
M$ FUD rules the roost in the land of the ignorant | Sep 22 04:50 | |
this is an interesting thing from Helios -> there were fears that I would go storming the gates, all wild-eyed and foaming at the mouth. People that know me know that I don't do that. It's only those who know me by my blog alone that assume such a thing. | Sep 22 04:52 | |
what he's talking about is not a "fear" it's a smear. | Sep 22 04:52 | |
the non free software types, while inherently aggressive and anti-social, always try to paint free software people as boorish and rude. | Sep 22 04:53 | |
wallclimber | You mean we're not??? :) | Sep 22 04:53 |
cubezzz | wallclimber, can a non member read the post? | Sep 22 04:53 |
"Haters" "smelly hippies" and so on. | Sep 22 04:53 | |
I'm not rude. | Sep 22 04:53 | |
wallclimber | I don't think non-members can, but I can copy some of it here, i think...would that be okay? she found some very interesting connections in her searches | Sep 22 04:54 |
If anything, people who share their software are more polite and considerate than average. | Sep 22 04:54 | |
cubezzz | yeah I may as well register, but go ahead and post in here if you like | Sep 22 04:55 |
wallclimber | twitter, i've never seen you be rude, i was being silly. i tend to be a little goofy at the end of a Monday work day...just ignore me :) | Sep 22 04:55 |
I get accused of all sorts of things routinely. | Sep 22 04:55 | |
wallclimber | i think pj closed registering a while back, but maybe she's opened it again...it's worth a try. | Sep 22 04:55 |
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even by my "defenders" | Sep 22 04:55 | |
cubezzz | yup, can't register | Sep 22 04:56 |
cubezzz | persona non-grata _again_ | Sep 22 04:56 |
wallclimber | ok, i'll post some of it...back in a bit... | Sep 22 04:56 |
cubezzz | ;-) | Sep 22 04:56 |
cubezzz | twitter, almost everyone I talk to about FOSS is receptive | Sep 22 04:56 |
wallclimber | Here's some: "There is an amicus brief [PDF] filed with the Supreme Court in the Bilski case that I think will interest you. It discusses software and whether it is math, it misrepresents FOSS, and it pushes software patents. Triple play. It is filed by Professor Lee Hollaar and the IEEE. | Sep 22 04:56 |
wallclimber | Yes, the same Professor Hollaar that Alexander Terekhov so often has linked to in his public strategizing on how to get around the GPL. And digging a bit, I find a connection between Hollaar and Senator Orrin Hatch and Hollaar and Caldera/SCO. | Sep 22 04:56 |
wallclimber | Knock me over with a feather. It's a small world. And guess what Hollaar isn't?... A lawyer. He's a patent agent, and obviously has many credentials, but attorney isn't one of them. " | Sep 22 04:56 |
cubezzz | it's not a hard sell | Sep 22 04:57 |
DaemonFC | heh | Sep 22 04:58 |
wallclimber | There's quite a bit more, and I'm thinking, since she made it members only she might not want a lot of it copied outside...but here's a little bit more... | Sep 22 04:59 |
wallclimber | "Summit Law Group was one of the firms Caldera used in that lawsuit. Another was Snow Christensen, where Ryan Tibbitts worked prior to becoming general counsel to SCO Group. At the time, Caldera was under the Canopy Group umbrella, with Yarro still there. You can verify the law firms by looking at the certificate of service in this Caldera filing [PDF], or any of them. Hollaar also thanks Lineo and Summit for their money: | Sep 22 04:59 |
wallclimber | Finally, Summit Law Group and Lineo provided important support for the development of this book and its Web site. Matt Harris and Ralph Palumbo recognized the importance of having this material widely available and made it possible. | Sep 22 04:59 |
wallclimber | Lineo was, of course, an offshoot of Caldera, spun off in 1999 as a wholly owned subsidiary. Why would it want Hollaar's web site? For what business purpose would it fund it? According to a report at the time by Maureen O'Gara, Lineo eventually ran out of money. I am starting to wonder how long ago the idea of suing over the GPL first took root. | Sep 22 04:59 |
wallclimber | Harris replaced Bryan Sparks as CEO of Lineo in 2001, by the way. He started out as VP and General Counsel at Lineo when it began. Sparks founded Caldera, Inc. in 1994. Harris worked for Summit Law Group also, and in fact he was a founding member (more Lineo history at that link), and he was the lead technical lawyer for Caldera in its lawsuit against Microsoft. You'll find Palumbo in the Caldera v. Microsoft filing also. You can | Sep 22 04:59 |
DaemonFC | wallclimber, lawyers, MEvangelical religious crazies, and other assorted fruits nuts and flakes | Sep 22 04:59 |
wallclimber | find Hollaar's other amicus brief submitted by him and IEEE-USA in the Bilski case, the one he filed earlier with the appeals court, on his page of papers. | Sep 22 04:59 |
wallclimber | Starting to feel like the Ozarks, where everyone is creepily related to everyone else you keep bumping into? " | Sep 22 04:59 |
DaemonFC | that should be enough to make anyone not want to leave the house | Sep 22 04:59 |
wallclimber | and where do you fall in that list DaemonFC? | Sep 22 05:00 |
DaemonFC | wallclimber, Go watch that episode of South Park | Sep 22 05:00 |
cubezzz | Lineo rings a bell | Sep 22 05:00 |
DaemonFC | Everyone v. Everyone | Sep 22 05:00 |
DaemonFC | everyone goes broke and the only one that has any money in town is the Jewish lawyer | Sep 22 05:00 |
DaemonFC | that was pretty damned funny | Sep 22 05:00 |
cubezzz | Lineo, right, the ones who made Embedix | Sep 22 05:01 |
hmmm, I like the picture Helios paints of Best Buy and other big box stores - over flowing with repressed gnu/linux users who have to toe the party line. | Sep 22 05:02 | |
how could it be otherwise? anyone new and generally enthused by computers will naturally gravitate to gnu/linux. | Sep 22 05:02 | |
tessier | How are things in BN land these days? | Sep 22 05:03 |
where is Best Buy going to find Windows enthusiasts? They hardly exist anymore because free software is so much cooler. | Sep 22 05:03 | |
wallclimber | PJ's article is about the Hollaar Amicus Brief in Bilski. Hollaar apparently is trying to get Bilski overturned...if I understand it correctly. | Sep 22 05:03 |
cubezzz | Best Buy doesn't seem to have any Linux based stuff for sale except TiVO | Sep 22 05:04 |
cubezzz | which doesn't exactly make me want to go there | Sep 22 05:04 |
who is Hollaar and why should I care? | Sep 22 05:04 | |
wallclimber | twitter, i haven't been in a Best Buy in over a decade, but i sometimes go to Fry's Electronics for things. asking about Linux at Fry's is quite an experience | Sep 22 05:04 |
cubezzz | good or bad experience? | Sep 22 05:05 |
this Hollaar? http://www.cs.utah.edu/~hollaar/ | Sep 22 05:05 | |
he talks about all sorts of toxic things. | Sep 22 05:05 | |
Sweet Jesus, the man is awful. | Sep 22 05:06 | |
wallclimber | Well, i'm barely 5ft tall, and bordering on elderliness, so the sales kids always laugh at me and tell me that "nobody uses Linux...we had some Linux machines here for a while and nobody wanted them. You wouldn't like it if you bought it...etc etc...happened lots. | Sep 22 05:06 |
At Frys? | Sep 22 05:07 | |
I'll have to avoid the place. | Sep 22 05:07 | |
wallclimber | Yes, Fry's Electronics, here in Phoenix | Sep 22 05:07 |
People Best Buy and other places have actually been better than that! | Sep 22 05:07 | |
wallclimber | They HATE it when little ol' ladies argue with them... | Sep 22 05:07 |
wallclimber | :) | Sep 22 05:07 |
DaemonFC | well, Linux doesn't foster the kind of sales on sales that Windows gets them | Sep 22 05:07 |
DaemonFC | I keep saying it's not surprising that they don't like it | Sep 22 05:08 |
wallclimber | I asked if I could try a Live cd on one of their laptops, and they told me it was against the rules and they acted like i was trying to infect their laptops or something...it was a hoot. i had to go to the front desk and ask permission. | Sep 22 05:08 |
cubezzz | most of the Dells work well, and also Panasonic Toughbook series | Sep 22 05:09 |
Zilog | you guys, cant easity component shop and system build ? | Sep 22 05:09 |
DaemonFC | I'm thinking of getting a Toshiba laptop this time | Sep 22 05:12 |
wallclimber | i can build my own desktops, but i don't have a clue about laptops...and i was helping my niece shop for a laptop, we just wanted o try some out. | Sep 22 05:12 |
wallclimber | it was fun. | Sep 22 05:13 |
wallclimber | *to* | Sep 22 05:13 |
wallclimber | There's really no place else to go besides Fry's anymore... | Sep 22 05:13 |
wallclimber | at least not close to my house... | Sep 22 05:13 |
wallclimber | twitter, Hollaar seems to be a friend of Orrin Hatch. | Sep 22 05:14 |
cubezzz | Linux laptops at the brick and mortar store level, usually no | Sep 22 05:15 |
wallclimber | maybe Dan Lyons. | Sep 22 05:15 |
tessier | I order most stuff online but I go to Fry's if I need something fast. Never talk to the salespeople there though. You better know what you want because they are clueless. | Sep 22 05:15 |
Twitter checks Zune and Vista Failure sales against Asus EEE PC and laughs -> (09:09:55 PM) DaemonFC: well, Linux doesn't foster the kind of sales on sales that Windows gets them | Sep 22 05:15 | |
cubezzz | wallclimber, you might consider buying a used Panasonic Toughbook, they work very well, anything CF-48 or newer | Sep 22 05:15 |
wallclimber | lol, messing with the sales people is half the fun. | Sep 22 05:15 |
DaemonFC | twitter, it doesn't | Sep 22 05:16 |
DaemonFC | Linux users typically don't buy software | Sep 22 05:16 |
DaemonFC | or support | Sep 22 05:16 |
wallclimber | the laptop wasn't for me, i was helping my niece look for one, hers had gotten lost and she needed a new one fast. | Sep 22 05:16 |
DaemonFC | that's where big box stores make the sales on sales | Sep 22 05:16 |
wallclimber | i order most things on line. | Sep 22 05:16 |
cubezzz | re-enforced motherboard skel to prevent flexing, gel enclosure for hd, quite nice | Sep 22 05:16 |
tell that to IBM, while they are busy making billions off support | Sep 22 05:16 | |
DaemonFC | twitter, home users don't | Sep 22 05:17 |
DaemonFC | companies buy support and such | Sep 22 05:17 |
wallclimber | or my kids give me parts for mother's day :) | Sep 22 05:17 |
they don't buy anything these days, which is why M$ is collapsing. | Sep 22 05:17 | |
wallclimber | (that would be computer parts, of course ) | Sep 22 05:17 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft is not tanking | Sep 22 05:18 |
DaemonFC | that's wishful thinking | Sep 22 05:18 |
Well, they do want netbooks and computers that work. | Sep 22 05:18 | |
wallclimber | Daemon, you're wrong, as usual. | Sep 22 05:18 |
heh. | Sep 22 05:18 | |
*twitter laughs at M$'s vanished $60 billion | Sep 22 05:18 | |
DaemonFC | if I had a dollar for every time I heard the lie that Microsoft was tanking over the last 10 years, I could go buy an island | Sep 22 05:19 |
*twitter laughs at Windows looking the same as it did a decade ago and working worse | Sep 22 05:19 | |
DaemonFC | it's always just around the corner it seems | Sep 22 05:19 |
pretty close no, thanks | Sep 22 05:19 | |
DaemonFC | Windows 98 didn't have desktop compositing | Sep 22 05:19 |
DaemonFC | or SMP support | Sep 22 05:19 |
DaemonFC | or a 64-bit edition | Sep 22 05:19 |
DaemonFC | or a lot of other things for that matter | Sep 22 05:20 |
DaemonFC | I must have missed where Windows hasn't improved | Sep 22 05:20 |
Windows 7 barely has that either. | Sep 22 05:20 | |
gnu/linux does and it works | Sep 22 05:20 | |
DaemonFC | sometimes | Sep 22 05:20 |
DaemonFC | Linux is a decent base system that doesn't have the application support that people want | Sep 22 05:21 |
DaemonFC | if it had what users wanted, most users would use it | Sep 22 05:21 |
circular logic | Sep 22 05:21 | |
M$ Fail Log http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/213707 | Sep 22 05:21 | |
Zilog | Daeon If I said that I would be called a troll or a "mutex" LOL. im not allowed to mention the "m" word | Sep 22 05:21 |
go buy an island | Sep 22 05:21 | |
DaemonFC | some of Microsoft's Best Buy module was true | Sep 22 05:21 |
oh yeah | Sep 22 05:21 | |
DaemonFC | that's what gave them a base to make the false claims that followed | Sep 22 05:22 |
DaemonFC's got the facts! | Sep 22 05:22 | |
DaemonFC | instant messaging is very deficient on Linux | Sep 22 05:22 |
DaemonFC | it is 10 years behind | Sep 22 05:22 |
cubezzz | what's deficient about it? | Sep 22 05:22 |
DaemonFC | no video/voice support on popular IM networks mainly | Sep 22 05:23 |
Skype is bigger than Facebook. | Sep 22 05:23 | |
DaemonFC | on Windows Live Messenger, I push a button, it connects, and it works | Sep 22 05:23 |
my imagination must fail me | Sep 22 05:23 | |
DaemonFC | same with Yahoo | Sep 22 05:23 |
Skype kicks both their buts. | Sep 22 05:23 | |
DaemonFC | on Linux I may get Skype kind of working | Sep 22 05:23 |
DaemonFC | after two or three hours | Sep 22 05:23 |
Just buy a $140 netbook. it works out of the box | Sep 22 05:24 | |
DaemonFC | of figuring out a dozen config files and a thousand arcane device names | Sep 22 05:24 |
DaemonFC | it's like slamming your hand in a car door repeatedly | Sep 22 05:24 |
DaemonFC | it's just painful as all hell | Sep 22 05:24 |
That's the XP way, DaemonFC. You Windows guys never learn. | Sep 22 05:24 | |
DaemonFC | Windows just works | Sep 22 05:24 |
wallclimber | ok, it's past my bedtime...hate to leave you with the noisy children, twitter...lol | Sep 22 05:25 |
DaemonFC | Linux makes you learn 20 year old config files and arcane device names | Sep 22 05:25 |
let me try this again -> (09:26:07 PM) twitter: Just buy a $140 netbook. it works out of the box | Sep 22 05:25 | |
DaemonFC | and then maybe they've fucked it up with shit like Pulseaudio as well | Sep 22 05:25 |
are you listening TrollFC? | Sep 22 05:25 | |
DaemonFC | then it glitches even if you do figure out the rest | Sep 22 05:25 |
wallclimber | Daemon listens to no one... | Sep 22 05:25 |
I use Skype every day. I bought it on a netbook that worked out of the box. | Sep 22 05:25 | |
*wallclimber has quit ("wallclimber wanders off...") | Sep 22 05:25 | |
DaemonFC | A/V on Linux is an unholy fucking mess | Sep 22 05:25 |
It just worked in a way Windows never will. | Sep 22 05:25 | |
DaemonFC | there's jsut no polite way to describe it | Sep 22 05:25 |
*twitter ignores DaemonFC the mega troll. | Sep 22 05:26 | |
Someone needs to ban him. | Sep 22 05:27 | |
DaemonFC | for speaking the truth? | Sep 22 05:27 |
Zilog | or because you dont agree with him? | Sep 22 05:28 |
DaemonFC | it happens sometimes that I do get banned for that | Sep 22 05:28 |
DaemonFC | every OS has problems that make you want to put your fist through the monitor | Sep 22 05:28 |
DaemonFC | Linux isn't immune from criticism jsut because it's open source | Sep 22 05:28 |
cubezzz | ok, a couple of comments... | Sep 22 05:35 |
cubezzz | first, Linux isn't even 20 years old | Sep 22 05:36 |
cubezzz | secondly, using ascii text files for configuration seem the most logic and universal way | Sep 22 05:36 |
DaemonFC | well, Linus Torvalds criticized GNOME, openly and brutally, because it was no good to him since it didn't do what he needed | Sep 22 05:36 |
DaemonFC | how is Linux immune from the same type of criticism? | Sep 22 05:37 |
cubezzz | DaemonFC, are you referring to the kernel? | Sep 22 05:37 |
DaemonFC | or any other piece of software for that matter | Sep 22 05:37 |
cubezzz | well, fine don't use it then | Sep 22 05:37 |
DaemonFC | if something has a massive implementation gap, then it's funny, comical even, how people like twitter try to lie and say it doesn't | Sep 22 05:38 |
DaemonFC | instead of discuss what needs fixing | Sep 22 05:38 |
Zilog | No it appears he was refering to GNOME | Sep 22 05:38 |
DaemonFC | to those mindsets, Windows can do no right, and Linux can do no wrong | Sep 22 05:38 |
DaemonFC | free software projects shit and it smells like cinnamon buns | Sep 22 05:39 |
cubezzz | see, those comments make no sense to me | Sep 22 05:40 |
DaemonFC | I just find it endlessly frustrating when I come across things that Windows has done for years that I can't do at all on Linux/OS X/most other systems | Sep 22 05:40 |
cubezzz | if you don't like GNOME then don't use it | Sep 22 05:40 |
DaemonFC | and yet those fanboys tell me to work around the problem by using bizarre networks and software that 90% of the world doesn't use | Sep 22 05:40 |
cubezzz | ok, can we at least drop the profanity? | Sep 22 05:41 |
DaemonFC | if aMSN is maintained by like 1 guy in his spare time, and supports webcams over Windows Live (no audio yet though), I wonder why these bg professional projects with dozens or hundreds of developers can't even do that much | Sep 22 05:42 |
yes, you can kick ban the profanity. | Sep 22 05:42 | |
DaemonFC | I say they can and choose not to | Sep 22 05:42 |
DaemonFC | *big | Sep 22 05:42 |
before you know it, there will be all sorts of racist and other talk | Sep 22 05:42 | |
DaemonFC | free software is as much about manipulating the user as any proprietary software is | Sep 22 05:42 |
cubezzz | blame the manufacture, don't blame the Linux devs | Sep 22 05:42 |
cubezzz | companies that put everything under NRA | Sep 22 05:43 |
cubezzz | how can anyone program for something without documentation? | Sep 22 05:43 |
DaemonFC | cubezzz, My point was that one guy in his spare time figured out the video system for Windows Live Messenger | Sep 22 05:43 |
DaemonFC | why can't Pidgin or Kopete? | Sep 22 05:43 |
DaemonFC | it seems like both of them have been stagnant for nearly 5-6 years | Sep 22 05:44 |
cubezzz | is the software open? Then anyone could copy... | Sep 22 05:44 |
cubezzz | is the source code available? | Sep 22 05:44 |
DaemonFC | cubezzz, If their stated goal is compatibility with lots of networks that they'll have to reverse engineer, it kind of says right there that they're half assing | Sep 22 05:44 |
cubezzz | I can't really tell you anything about pidgin or kopete, I've never used them | Sep 22 05:45 |
DaemonFC | the fact that dozens of people in 5+ years can't implement voice and video | Sep 22 05:45 |
cubezzz | well then it sounds like they don't have any hardware specs | Sep 22 05:45 |
DaemonFC | cubezzz, Pidgin is so messed up that most people find it easier to fork their libraries than contribute to the project | Sep 22 05:46 |
DaemonFC | that's where MSN-Pecan came from | Sep 22 05:46 |
cubezzz | if the programmers have to reverse engineer things, it can take a long time | Sep 22 05:46 |
DaemonFC | if Pidgin ever can do voice and video, I'd imagine it will come from some third party add on | Sep 22 05:46 |
DaemonFC | just like MSN-Pecan fixes tons of ongoing WLM-related Pidgin bugs | Sep 22 05:47 |
cubezzz | I think I did compile kopete actually | Sep 22 05:47 |
DaemonFC | it's just kind of anti-climactic, the way a lot of free software projects end up | Sep 22 05:48 |
DaemonFC | they have good progress to a certain point, then declare it's "good enough" and never improve | Sep 22 05:48 |
DaemonFC | Pidgin is a prime example of that phenomenon | Sep 22 05:48 |
cubezzz | well, I prefer IRC and I don't bother with Skpe and webcams so I'm not a good person to defend kopete and pidgin | Sep 22 05:48 |
cubezzz | used gaim a bit | Sep 22 05:49 |
DaemonFC | the only way I'll put Pidgin on someone's system is if they don't use a cam anyway | Sep 22 05:49 |
DaemonFC | I was working on my mom's neighbor's XP system yesterday and ended up putting Pidgin on it | Sep 22 05:50 |
DaemonFC | just because it's an old system with 512 megs of RAM and can't handle lots of heavy software that's loaded all the time | Sep 22 05:50 |
because M$ will just break it, that's why. it's a waste of time if not an invitation to a patent of DMCA lawsuit -> DaemonFC: cubezzz, My point was that one guy in his spare time figured out the video system for Windows Live Messenger | Sep 22 05:50 | |
DaemonFC | twitter, That's not true | Sep 22 05:50 |
How many times do I have to tell DaemonFC that Skype works and so do other IMs? | Sep 22 05:51 | |
DaemonFC | they'd be well within their rights under US law | Sep 22 05:51 |
brick wall.. | Sep 22 05:51 | |
DaemonFC | the Pidgin people that is | Sep 22 05:51 |
DaemonFC | twitter, Did I ask you how to use Skype? | Sep 22 05:51 |
no one has to ask, it just works | Sep 22 05:51 | |
DaemonFC | Did I give you a hint that I am going to use Skype? | Sep 22 05:51 |
DaemonFC | maybe I like using everything else *and* Skype | Sep 22 05:51 |
cubezzz | you have to remember that _some_ people like Linux and GNOME and all that. They like programming stuff | Sep 22 05:52 |
no, you seem to want to use M$ crap. | Sep 22 05:52 | |
DaemonFC | maybe I don't like to pick and choose what I can get to work | Sep 22 05:52 |
cubezzz | that's basically my philosophy on it | Sep 22 05:52 |
cubezzz | Stallman went to a lot of trouble and we all can benefit from that, gcc and and all the other gnu tools | Sep 22 05:52 |
DaemonFC | twitter, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3jdHtpIuNM&feature=related | Sep 22 05:53 |
DaemonFC | there you go :) | Sep 22 05:53 |
The primary obstacle to free software is now software patents. | Sep 22 05:53 | |
DaemonFC | the primary obstacle is the "good enough" mentality of projects like Pidgin | Sep 22 05:54 |
all of the tools are in place - free video and audio codecs with excellent compression, free network stacks, plenty of working webcams | Sep 22 05:54 | |
DaemonFC | that's my opinion | Sep 22 05:54 |
yeah, but you are an idiot or a liar, DaemonFC. | Sep 22 05:54 | |
cubezzz | well does Microsoft give out docs for Windows Live Messenger protocols? | Sep 22 05:54 |
DaemonFC | cubezzz, Other companies are compatible with WLM | Sep 22 05:55 |
DaemonFC | including voice and video | Sep 22 05:55 |
DaemonFC | including Apple iChat | Sep 22 05:55 |
cubezzz | they could be under NDA | Sep 22 05:55 |
cubezzz | not FOSS though right? | Sep 22 05:55 |
Pidgin is supposed to work with MSN. | Sep 22 05:55 | |
DaemonFC | well, near as I can tell, they had to reverse engineer everything else | Sep 22 05:55 |
but I'm sure M$ breaks it. | Sep 22 05:55 | |
DaemonFC | why not just hook into VLC to encode the WMV/WMA stream? | Sep 22 05:56 |
cubezzz | I think gaim worked too at some level | Sep 22 05:56 |
DaemonFC | that avoids some nasty potential patent problems | Sep 22 05:56 |
you might as well try to communicate via OOXML. | Sep 22 05:56 | |
cubezzz | DaemonFC, it's probably possible to make it work | Sep 22 05:56 |
why, DeamonFC, do you want WMA? | Sep 22 05:56 | |
It's shit. | Sep 22 05:56 | |
DaemonFC | it's what Windows Live Messenger uses | Sep 22 05:56 |
DaemonFC | VLC can encode to it under Linux | Sep 22 05:56 |
why do you insist on using shig? | Sep 22 05:56 | |
DaemonFC | so does ffmpeg | Sep 22 05:57 |
DaemonFC | at least good enough to use | Sep 22 05:57 |
they also do mpeg1 | Sep 22 05:57 | |
so what? | Sep 22 05:57 | |
DaemonFC | the bitstream format for Windows Media codecs has been out there for several years now | Sep 22 05:57 |
why not just use theora? | Sep 22 05:57 | |
DaemonFC | so that's not what's stopping Pidgin | Sep 22 05:57 |
this really goes nowhere, does it? | Sep 22 05:58 | |
cubezzz | assuming it's not encrypted | Sep 22 05:58 |
bbl | Sep 22 05:58 | |
DaemonFC | Microsoft can't break it without breaking WLM support on a lot of operating systems of theirs that are still in support that can't use the latest versions of WLM | Sep 22 05:58 |
DaemonFC | so they're safe til at least 2014 I believe | Sep 22 05:58 |
DaemonFC | the protocol won't change between now and then | Sep 22 05:59 |
cubezzz | when was the last time pidgin was updated? | Sep 22 05:59 |
DaemonFC | then potentially til 2017 | Sep 22 05:59 |
DaemonFC | cause of Vista's lifespan | Sep 22 05:59 |
DaemonFC | cubezzz, With anything that anyone would notice? | Sep 22 06:00 |
DaemonFC | probably 2004 | Sep 22 06:00 |
DaemonFC | I agree that GNOME should split off and develop Empathy if they really want to improve over what Pidgin has | Sep 22 06:00 |
DaemonFC | but something tells me that they'll hit the same imaginary wall and we'll end up with Pidgin all over again | Sep 22 06:01 |
DaemonFC | or maybe not even get that far | Sep 22 06:01 |
DaemonFC | Galaxium may produce results | Sep 22 06:02 |
DaemonFC | who knows? | Sep 22 06:02 |
DaemonFC | Galaxium had the stated goal of feature parity with every instant messaging protocol they supported | Sep 22 06:02 |
DaemonFC | it would be nice if _someone_ came around and properly supported it without half-assing everything | Sep 22 06:04 |
DaemonFC | twitter, What's your almighty and authoritative opinion on why everyone is using Windows Live, Yahoo, and AIM, in that order? | Sep 22 06:07 |
DaemonFC | and why the rest of these protocols are fighting for the last 5 users | Sep 22 06:07 |
cubezzz | DaemonFC, you forgot freenode :) | Sep 22 06:07 |
I don't know anyone who uses Windows Live. | Sep 22 06:07 | |
DaemonFC | cubezzz, I'm not really considering IRC | Sep 22 06:08 |
Besides one or two trolls. | Sep 22 06:08 | |
and they are probably lying. | Sep 22 06:08 | |
DaemonFC | IRC is a chat protocol, but I wouldn't lump it in with a dedicated IM network with persistent accounts, buddy lists, and advanced features | Sep 22 06:08 |
DaemonFC | twitter, I have several dozen people on my Windows Live account | Sep 22 06:09 |
DaemonFC | it's all I really ever use | Sep 22 06:09 |
DaemonFC | I merged the few Yahoo contacts I had onto my Windows Live account | Sep 22 06:10 |
I'm surprised you have time to talk to anyone, given how you troll here all day and night. | Sep 22 06:10 | |
Your free time must have something to do with the reliability of Windows Live. | Sep 22 06:11 | |
DaemonFC | I've never had their network go down | Sep 22 06:13 |
DaemonFC | Yahoo does occasionally | Sep 22 06:13 |
DaemonFC | really what pissed me off into leaving Yahoo was how bloated and spam-filled their own instant messaging software was | Sep 22 06:13 |
DaemonFC | but Windows Live Messenger can handle Yahoo contacts as well | Sep 22 06:14 |
DaemonFC | twitter, Multitasking | Sep 22 06:16 |
multi troll | Sep 22 06:16 | |
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schestowitz | Hmmmm..... why did CEO of ZOHO Corp. just mail me? | Sep 22 07:06 |
schestowitz | They take cheat shots at Zimbra | Sep 22 07:06 |
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propaganda vrs teaching http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/09/riaa-asks-schoolkids-assist-propaganda | Sep 22 07:11 | |
schestowitz | Kids <3 Big Business | Sep 22 07:12 |
schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/05/29/kids-brainwish/ | Sep 22 07:13 |
schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/22/linus_torvalds_linux_bloated_huge/ | Sep 22 07:18 |
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schestowitz | http://ostatic.com/blog/identities-of-fake-linus-torvalds-revealed | Sep 22 07:26 |
schestowitz | " | Sep 22 07:26 |
schestowitz | FLT#2 - Cnet Blogger, Matt Asay | Sep 22 07:26 |
schestowitz | The other three well-known community members in on the gag were: | Sep 22 07:26 |
schestowitz | * FLT#1 - Columnist & The Fake Steve Jobs, Dan Lyons | Sep 22 07:26 |
schestowitz | * FLT#3 - OpenSUSE Community Manager, Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier | Sep 22 07:26 |
schestowitz | * FLT#4 - Ubuntu Community Manager, Jono Bacon | Sep 22 07:26 |
schestowitz | " | Sep 22 07:26 |
schestowitz | Dan Lyons is anti-Linux. THey should not feed him | Sep 22 07:26 |
DaemonFC` | bloated and huge and 12% slower than last year | Sep 22 07:28 |
DaemonFC` | heh | Sep 22 07:28 |
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_Hicham_ | Hi All! | Sep 22 07:29 |
DaemonFC | Linux is losing performance faster than Windows in other words | Sep 22 07:29 |
DaemonFC | if it gets 2% slower every 3 months, that's fairly disturbing | Sep 22 07:30 |
DaemonFC | that means Linux gets about 8% slower every year | Sep 22 07:30 |
DaemonFC | or about 40% slower in 5 years | Sep 22 07:31 |
DaemonFC | to put that in perspective, Vista was only about 10% slower than XP, overall | Sep 22 07:31 |
DaemonFC | and that represented about 5 years of Windows | Sep 22 07:31 |
DaemonFC | so according to that link, Linux is getting slower and more bloated four times faster than Windows B-) | Sep 22 07:32 |
_Hicham_ | where is the link ? | Sep 22 07:33 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/22/linus_torvalds_linux_bloated_huge/ | Sep 22 07:33 |
*schestowitz listens to http://www.twit.tv/floss9 | Sep 22 07:41 | |
schestowitz | Linux boots fast and works fast with ext4 | Sep 22 07:41 |
schestowitz | Vista is not 10% slower than XP | Sep 22 07:42 |
schestowitz | It takes up all th RAM, leading to swap | Sep 22 07:42 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : linux kernel can be optimized | Sep 22 07:42 |
_Hicham_ | optimization doesn't exist with Windows | Sep 22 07:43 |
schestowitz | GNU/Linux gets faster over time, based on my experience | Sep 22 07:43 |
schestowitz | It also gets better schedulaers | Sep 22 07:43 |
schestowitz | *Ers | Sep 22 07:44 |
schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/18/platte_river_associates_sentenced_for_trading_with_enemy/ (US software firm sentenced for 'trading with the enemy') | Sep 22 07:44 |
schestowitz | Ridiculous | Sep 22 07:45 |
schestowitz | The American population has no problem with Cuba | Sep 22 07:45 |
schestowitz | And the US is the only one with the embargo, with nationalist reasons | Sep 22 07:45 |
schestowitz | Scribd fires back, denies violating copyright http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10357273-93.html | Sep 22 07:46 |
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schestowitz | Why Developers Get Fired http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/features/article.php/12297_3839981_1/ | Sep 22 08:01 |
schestowitz | http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7531 "The Ususal Suspects" [sic] | Sep 22 08:02 |
schestowitz | Why don't they proofread and highlight subheadlines? | Sep 22 08:02 |
schestowitz | "Jeremy Zawodny is a software engineer at Craigslist" | Sep 22 08:03 |
schestowitz | SO that's where he landed after Yahoo! | Sep 22 08:03 |
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trmanco | how can it be slower if the latest kernel just got an X performance boost? | Sep 22 08:20 |
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schestowitz | trmanco: That's the Reg taking one line from Linus and sensationalising it | Sep 22 08:29 |
schestowitz | Linux on the desktop has been getting faster for me on the same h/w | Sep 22 08:29 |
schestowitz | Maybe it's different on servers, but I doubt it | Sep 22 08:29 |
schestowitz | Phoronic benchmarks show it staying more or less steady in performance over time | Sep 22 08:30 |
schestowitz | Search for kernel comparison in Phoronix and you'll see | Sep 22 08:30 |
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trmanco | well, I guess ext4 got slower too, uh? | Sep 22 08:40 |
_Hicham_ | trmanco : how ? | Sep 22 08:40 |
_Hicham_ | where did u find that ? | Sep 22 08:40 |
trmanco | well, according to some quotes from the article | Sep 22 08:41 |
trmanco | oh, this doesn't count -> http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_2_6_31#head-799157cd8729eba8ee5bc1ff0290d7414f366ef2 | Sep 22 08:42 |
trmanco | but it's good to think like that, actually | Sep 22 08:42 |
trmanco | we all win of Linus thinks the kernel is slow and bloated | Sep 22 08:43 |
trmanco | they will just make it even more faster | Sep 22 08:43 |
trmanco | and more stable | Sep 22 08:43 |
schestowitz | "slow and bloated" <<- same thing almost | Sep 22 08:45 |
schestowitz | Not mutually exclusive. Look up benchmarks from Phoronix, you'll see that evidence hardly supports this | Sep 22 08:45 |
schestowitz | A command line dictionary for UNIX http://aplawrence.com/Girish/dict.html | Sep 22 08:46 |
*schestowitz finally managed to find the right screwdrivers to open up the Phlishave for replacement battery | Sep 22 08:47 | |
schestowitz | Star Trek Creator's Mac Plus Up For Auction http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/star-trek-creator-s-mac-plus-up-for-auction-1873 | Sep 22 08:50 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : do u think a big beard will suits u ? | Sep 22 08:52 |
schestowitz | Penguins don't grow beards | Sep 22 08:53 |
schestowitz | :-p | Sep 22 08:53 |
schestowitz | http://aplawrence.com/Girish/dict.html. | Sep 22 08:53 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : what about RMS ? | Sep 22 08:53 |
schestowitz | It's his symbol | Sep 22 08:53 |
schestowitz | That's how people recognise it. For some people it's long here | Sep 22 08:54 |
schestowitz | jono had the goatie | Sep 22 08:54 |
schestowitz | Here's a due who insists Linux has 2% on the desktop... http://www.idreamoflinux.com/2009/09/tip-for-software-companies.html | Sep 22 08:54 |
schestowitz | Don't know where he got that 'magic' number, so I can't link to it | Sep 22 08:55 |
schestowitz | In some countries Linux is like 10%+ | Sep 22 08:55 |
_Hicham_ | Linux needs more GUI config stuff | Sep 22 08:59 |
_Hicham_ | Gnome-2.28 will be officially released tomorrow | Sep 22 08:59 |
trmanco | more gui stuff? | Sep 22 09:03 |
_Hicham_ | trmanco : yes, new users are afraid of command-line | Sep 22 09:05 |
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schestowitz | gnome 3.0 looks promising | Sep 22 09:18 |
schestowitz | Let's hope it'll be mono-free | Sep 22 09:18 |
schestowitz | I'm gonna Twit some new now, be back in 1.5 hours to this chan | Sep 22 09:18 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Sign of #FreeSoftware Triumph: Truly #Free Distributions Like #BLAG and #gNewSense Become Pragmatic http://bit.ly/mguz5 | Sep 22 09:22 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #IBM Vice President on Why #GNU #Linux is the Desktop's Future http://bit.ly/gFbaQ http://bit.ly/KF5pt http://bit.ly/14Gulo http://bit. ... | Sep 22 09:26 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why #British #Schools Require #GNU #Linux and Not #FogComputing or Proprietary Software http://bit.ly/2eYTJ0 | Sep 22 09:28 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #DeviceVM Joins the @LinuxFoundation http://bit.ly/3p8Q4 http://bit.ly/16DOiA | Sep 22 09:39 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Preview of #Linux 2.6.32 http://bit.ly/15nRfG http://bit.ly/3hgMxs | Sep 22 09:43 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The @LinuxFoundation Covers the #LinuxCon Event http://bit.ly/17xjs9 http://bit.ly/3OC3Yv | Sep 22 09:45 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] KDE4 Keeps Running Ahead with KRunner, Silk; #KDE 3.5.10 Still Deployed by Some http://bit.ly/3Hx5Gg http://lwn.net/Articles/353630/ ht ... | Sep 22 09:47 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Desktop Environments in #GNU #Linux Offer Many Menu #Options http://bit.ly/2j1Vk7 choice is good | Sep 22 09:49 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #SystemRescue ( #GNU #Linux Distribution) in Review http://bit.ly/eq2ET | Sep 22 09:52 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The New #Puppy #GNU #Linux (4.3) Gets Moderate Marks http://bit.ly/3w7RQO | Sep 22 09:53 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Early Review of #Mandriva #Linux 2010 (Release Candidate) http://bit.ly/3O56Q7 | Sep 22 09:55 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat Share Price Almost Doubled http://online.barrons.com/article/SB125354474046628007.html | Sep 22 09:56 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Canonical Speaks About #Ubuntu #Server Edition 10.04 http://bit.ly/q4sfw | Sep 22 10:00 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux #Mint #KDE Chooses New Logo http://www.linuxmint.com/blog/?p=1051 | Sep 22 10:00 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Reasons to Attract People to #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux: Popularity, #Environment http://bit.ly/189lDc http://bit.ly/drIQm | Sep 22 10:03 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Sensia #InternetRadio Runs #Linux , #Kmicro Targets Linux Also http://bit.ly/2dhkrS http://bit.ly/3wlevj | Sep 22 10:05 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Phones with #FreeSoftware and #Linux Make Gains http://bit.ly/eqy0T http://bit.ly/QxKyN | Sep 22 10:06 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More #GNU #Linux #Subnotebooks Are Coming Shortly http://bit.ly/QNuS1 | Sep 22 10:11 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More #GNU #Linux #Subnotebooks Comes to More Children in Pacific Islands http://bit.ly/allT3 #olpc #freedom | Sep 22 10:13 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Zimbra to be Saved from Microsoft's Bartzmer http://bit.ly/4JRD8 #independence | Sep 22 10:14 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #BigBusiness Chooses #GNU #Linux and #FreeSoftware for Operations http://bit.ly/2HKXeq | Sep 22 10:15 | |
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zoobab6 | for your quotes collection: http://interviews.slashdot.org/interviews/02/05/20/1314214.shtml?tid=166 | Sep 22 10:16 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Doctoral #Research to Revolve Around #FreeSoftware http://bit.ly/4tNd2A | Sep 22 10:17 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OpenOffice .org Opens to Contributors Even More http://bit.ly/10zWVF | Sep 22 10:19 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mozilla Puts the Turbo On http://bit.ly/1yZVmU #firefox | Sep 22 10:19 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Global Conference on #OpenSource a Month Away in #Jakarta http://bit.ly/2WORfI #foss #mainstream | Sep 22 10:21 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Wikipedia Cofounder Slams BillyPress for Slamming Wikipedia http://bit.ly/13bAxB | Sep 22 10:23 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #PHP #Programming Hits the Top 3 http://bit.ly/JLM9b | Sep 22 10:24 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FogComputing Can be Achieved with #FreeSoftware and #Linux http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/tutorials/6849/1/ http://bit.ly/eYl8E | Sep 22 10:29 | |
schestowitz | zoobab6: interetsing what he says on Mono..... | Sep 22 10:30 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New, Bizarre #Censorship Attempts http://bit.ly/1690OB http://bit.ly/VtjcQ | Sep 22 10:32 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #PhillipMorris and Gangsters Use #AstroTurf to Shoot Down #Healthcare Sanity http://bit.ly/K1aVL | Sep 22 10:34 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Net #Neutrality Protected by #FCC After #Google Influence http://bit.ly/1WuCB | Sep 22 10:35 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Apparent Conflicts of Interest in 'Legal' System and #MAFIAA http://bit.ly/34PdTb http://bit.ly/h3YCi | Sep 22 10:39 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Obama Surrenders to More #IntellectualMonopolies http://techdirt.com/articles/20090920/1829336247.shtml http://bit.ly/C77RZ | Sep 22 10:40 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #IntellectualMonopolies #Hypocrisy from #LilyAllen http://techdirt.com/articles/20090921/0527456270.shtml #itsnotfair | Sep 22 10:42 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Malaysia Applies #IntellectualMonopolies to #Cuisine http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5ioSMFtZKFhEdURCe6ZuOEO ... | Sep 22 10:44 | |
oiaohm | Looks like I have shot the package manager on this debian. O well running reinstall of everything. | Sep 22 10:45 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft -- Already Taking Debt -- Cuts #Kickbacks to #MVPs http://bit.ly/hXisC | Sep 22 10:49 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Slammed for Anti- #Linux Abuse with #SoftwarePatents http://bit.ly/3lA0vd http://bit.ly/3qVgIu | Sep 22 10:51 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Vista 7 So Bad That #Microsoft Needs to Launch Anti- #Linux Push? http://www.itwire.com/content/view/27901/1141/ | Sep 22 10:52 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #IntellectualMonopolies Kill People, Court Apathetic http://techdirt.com/articles/20090920/2259026254.shtml http://bit.ly/RCJgZ | Sep 22 10:54 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How #IBM Uses #IntellectualMonopolies to Exploit the Little Guy http://bit.ly/2LDGY | Sep 22 10:55 | |
DaemonFC | hmmm | Sep 22 11:05 |
DaemonFC | well that was interesting..... got a phone call from an ex I haven't seen in over six years | Sep 22 11:05 |
Diablo-D3 | yeah? | Sep 22 11:07 |
schestowitz | I used BLAG only as an example of a distro that more pragmatists can now use but some people misinterpreted what I wrote. | Sep 22 11:11 |
DaemonFC | there seems to be an awful lot of security problems that are having no effect on Windows 7 | Sep 22 11:13 |
DaemonFC | BLAG has no 64-bit edition | Sep 22 11:14 |
DaemonFC | hmmm, seems like they do now | Sep 22 11:15 |
DaemonFC | you have to net install it though | Sep 22 11:15 |
DaemonFC | so why use it when it's based on old versions of Fedora? | Sep 22 11:16 |
oiaohm | Define having no effect DaemonFC | Sep 22 11:19 |
oiaohm | There have been quite a few secuirty flaws found in Windows 7 so far | Sep 22 11:19 |
oiaohm | Its another sloppy OS. | Sep 22 11:19 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm, I mean security problems in Vista and XP that don't exist in 7 | Sep 22 11:19 |
DaemonFC | including the SMB2 bug | Sep 22 11:19 |
oiaohm | SMB2 was descovered with Windows 7 | Sep 22 11:20 |
DaemonFC | only exists in pre-RTM versions | Sep 22 11:20 |
oiaohm | No | Sep 22 11:20 |
DaemonFC | I'm not counting it because of that | Sep 22 11:20 |
oiaohm | They have fixed 1 or 2 faults. | Sep 22 11:20 |
oiaohm | or/of | Sep 22 11:20 |
DaemonFC | there have been a couple serious bugs fixed in the Windows 7 beta and RC builds | Sep 22 11:21 |
oiaohm | The lock Vista and Windows 7 sold due to smb2 bad packet is not fixed yet. | Sep 22 11:21 |
DaemonFC | that's not something to fault them for because they were fixed and finding bugs is what you expect in a beta | Sep 22 11:21 |
oiaohm | The question is if it can be fixed. | Sep 22 11:21 |
DaemonFC | turning it off is good enough | Sep 22 11:21 |
DaemonFC | it's not needed for anything | Sep 22 11:22 |
DaemonFC | it's redundant | Sep 22 11:22 |
oiaohm | Patch to vista also turns it off. | Sep 22 11:22 |
oiaohm | So vista with latest patches no secuirty difference. | Sep 22 11:22 |
oiaohm | XP on the other hand faults not fixed. | Sep 22 11:22 |
oiaohm | Also Windows 7 still has the winsock go to god fault. | Sep 22 11:24 |
oiaohm | Leaving you with no operational network stack and having to know to go to command line and do a command so it clears. | Sep 22 11:25 |
oiaohm | I like to know who was the insane bugger who though saving network stats to disk so they could be reloaded on startup. | Sep 22 11:25 |
oiaohm | Would not cause screwups. | Sep 22 11:25 |
oiaohm | DaemonFC: can you really name a valid reason to upgrade for all those will upto date secuirty patches. | Sep 22 11:27 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] News of the News is completely broken at the moment, as are all subdomains of today.com. Urgent support message in ... | Sep 22 11:27 | |
DaemonFC | faster, haven't had it crash on me | Sep 22 11:28 |
oiaohm | Lack of crash not selling point. | Sep 22 11:28 |
oiaohm | People say that about all new OS's. | Sep 22 11:28 |
oiaohm | Faster really. Benches mostly don't back that DaemonFC | Sep 22 11:29 |
DaemonFC | video games do run better | Sep 22 11:29 |
DaemonFC | the system takes less RAM | Sep 22 11:29 |
DaemonFC | about 1/3rd less than Vista | Sep 22 11:29 |
oiaohm | Mostly service removal. | Sep 22 11:30 |
oiaohm | Most of the alterations are surface nothing more. | Sep 22 11:30 |
schestowitz | Here's DaemonFC's ex: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-WoA9xm-1I | Sep 22 11:31 |
DaemonFC | uhhhm, eww | Sep 22 11:31 |
DaemonFC | no | Sep 22 11:31 |
schestowitz | You sure..? | Sep 22 11:31 |
oiaohm | vlite used by gamers out performs stock Windows 7 for games. | Sep 22 11:32 |
oiaohm | Most gamers are better of waiting for Windows 7 to get a vlite equal. | Sep 22 11:32 |
schestowitz | I can't find Linus' talk. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=videos&search_query=linuxcon&search_sort=video_date_uploaded | Sep 22 11:33 |
schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=videos&search_query=linus&search_sort=video_date_uploaded | Sep 22 11:33 |
oiaohm | Mostly because it was not Linus talk he was recently quoted from. | Sep 22 11:34 |
oiaohm | it was intels talk schestowitz | Sep 22 11:34 |
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DaemonFC | schestowitz, My ex is several stone lighter than RMS , a few decades younger, and no Santa Claus beard | Sep 22 11:36 |
DaemonFC | so yeah, I'm sure | Sep 22 11:37 |
schestowitz | Linus is from Sweden?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqli97iKiaM&NR=1 | Sep 22 11:39 |
schestowitz | I man, originally? | Sep 22 11:39 |
schestowitz | *mean | Sep 22 11:39 |
Zilog | helsinki | Sep 22 11:40 |
Zilog | I think | Sep 22 11:40 |
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schestowitz | It's weird seeing the older interviews (CNN): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKkvPxYNh9A&feature=related | Sep 22 11:45 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: mutex, watch the video | Sep 22 11:46 |
schestowitz | They say Sweden for some reason | Sep 22 11:46 |
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Zilog | Roy the are saying the sweedish translation of his name!, "born December 28, 1969 in Helsinki, Finland)" | Sep 22 11:49 |
oiaohm | Linus does not really care how his name is said. Every country early on he let the presentor say his name how ever it works. | Sep 22 11:51 |
schestowitz | He cares about how the kernel name is pronounced | Sep 22 12:07 |
schestowitz | And about Sweden, that first video says he's from Sweden and studies in Helsinki | Sep 22 12:07 |
schestowitz | But his dad is Finnish and spent time in Russia as a communist(ish) activist | Sep 22 12:08 |
DaemonFC | heh | Sep 22 12:08 |
DaemonFC | ironic | Sep 22 12:08 |
oiaohm | Yes Linus family is interesting. | Sep 22 12:09 |
oiaohm | Linus is most likely the black sheep has not been thrown in jail for anything. | Sep 22 12:09 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Porreiro, uma gajo quer-se candidatar a emprego mas o site nao dá :| | Sep 22 12:20 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Version Information: Microsoft .NET Framework Version:1.1.4322.2407; ASP.NET Version:1.1.4322.2407 | Sep 22 12:20 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Exception Details: System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Length cannot be less than zero. Parameter name: length | Sep 22 12:21 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Isto no site da Sonae... se me quiserem contratar eu arranjo o site :-P | Sep 22 12:22 | |
_Hicham_ | senior oiaohm | Sep 22 12:23 |
DaemonFC | "They're the fastest CPUs on the market and they're the cheapest too. That's not something I'm going to argue with." -Linus Torvalds on x86 | Sep 22 12:25 |
schestowitz | Kernel Walkthrough http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7SWXTyXF0E&feature=related | Sep 22 12:25 |
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oiaohm | DaemonFC: time changes. | Sep 22 12:29 |
oiaohm | Currently for power vs performance arm chips have it. | Sep 22 12:29 |
oiaohm | At 2 ghz real clock speed arm is not far behind x86. | Sep 22 12:30 |
DaemonFC | yeah, ARM loses on cost, on competition, on performance potential, and on compatibility with most software out there | Sep 22 12:31 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Mas que raio quer isto dizer :-P http://pastebin.com/m3d1dcef0 | Sep 22 12:31 | |
DaemonFC | I'm not going to say "never" with 100% certainty, but I'm 99% sure that ARM will never amount to any more than a niche market | Sep 22 12:31 |
DaemonFC | mostly on devices | Sep 22 12:32 |
DaemonFC | gadgets | Sep 22 12:32 |
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DaemonFC | the most popular also-ran, the PPC, only got about 4% of the desktop market | Sep 22 12:33 |
DaemonFC | and that's with every Mac coming with one | Sep 22 12:33 |
DaemonFC | x86 is still the commodity hardware, the de facto standard | Sep 22 12:33 |
DaemonFC | that's mostly because with Windows and Mac, you've got over 95% of the market that can't use anything else | Sep 22 12:34 |
oiaohm | Arm may end up the server market DaemonFC | Sep 22 12:34 |
DaemonFC | and incompatible architectures would also sour the deal for a lot of Linux users because Wine and commercial software packages wouldn't run | Sep 22 12:34 |
oiaohm | Few server farms are looking at it for bang vs buck. | Sep 22 12:34 |
DaemonFC | the standard chip will be x86 as long as Windows and OS X depend on them | Sep 22 12:35 |
oiaohm | I know a lot of people who would buy arms for portables. | Sep 22 12:35 |
oiaohm | And not care about windows apps at all. Since that is what the desktop is for. | Sep 22 12:35 |
DaemonFC | which means that x86 Linux will continue to be the most popular and used by far | Sep 22 12:35 |
oiaohm | Battery life beats applications. | Sep 22 12:35 |
DaemonFC | just because the x86 is the hardware that's out there at reasonable costs | Sep 22 12:36 |
oiaohm | Define resonable. | Sep 22 12:36 |
DaemonFC | and because it can still run Windows apps through Wine | Sep 22 12:36 |
oiaohm | Really defined resonable. | Sep 22 12:36 |
oiaohm | 8 times the price of arm. | Sep 22 12:36 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm, like 39% of Linux users depend n Wine | Sep 22 12:36 |
DaemonFC | so you're talking a huge chunk that can't go to ARM | Sep 22 12:36 |
oiaohm | Not really. | Sep 22 12:37 |
oiaohm | Do they need windows applications on all there machines DaemonFC | Sep 22 12:37 |
oiaohm | Answer no. | Sep 22 12:37 |
DaemonFC | adding a percent or two to Linux wouldn't make Windows less influential in itself | Sep 22 12:37 |
DaemonFC | no more than Firefox has encouraged websites to not design for IE so far | Sep 22 12:38 |
oiaohm | At 2 ghz times 8 cores there is even a chance that qemu would be fast enough to run wine. | Sep 22 12:38 |
oiaohm | Even that the cpu core is wrong. | Sep 22 12:39 |
oiaohm | At 3 ghz for non gamers x86 would no longer be important. | Sep 22 12:39 |
oiaohm | x86 lock most likely will mean nothing. | Sep 22 12:40 |
oiaohm | People always forget wine does not need a real x86 core. | Sep 22 12:41 |
oiaohm | It needs either a real x86 core or the means for qemu to run fast enough. | Sep 22 12:41 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Alan Cox in 2002: “Microsoft Has Publicly Stated That it Has Patents on Critical Parts of .NET and Will Enforce Them” http://bit.ly/fc7ex | Sep 22 12:41 | |
oiaohm | I really like to know where you get the 40 percent from. | Sep 22 12:43 |
oiaohm | Lot of Linux users can live quite happly without wine. Using wine for windows applciations is a pain in but native Linux is on adverage less painful. | Sep 22 12:43 |
MinceR | 98% of statistics are made up on the spot | Sep 22 12:44 |
oiaohm | The correct percentage is about 10 percent. | Sep 22 12:44 |
oiaohm | I know that from wine from support numbers compared to the likes of ubuntu numbers accross the board. | Sep 22 12:45 |
oiaohm | And about most of that is game releated. | Sep 22 12:45 |
oiaohm | Not business | Sep 22 12:46 |
oiaohm | Also I know most people use wine as they are converting over until they learn the native replacements. | Sep 22 12:47 |
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oiaohm | So unless Linux numbers are growing like the bat out of hell 39% is not possiable. | Sep 22 12:48 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @dougclow The NYT say Amazon is nearly the Wal-Mart of the web http://bit.ly/DODyM - they're sure acting like it http://bit.ly/14JI1b | Sep 22 13:06 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Casting my vote in the Ubuntu Community Council election :) | Sep 22 13:14 | |
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schestowitz | kdenlive is REALLY nice | Sep 22 13:20 |
schestowitz | Good GUI and all | Sep 22 13:20 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #kdenlive is a very impressive piece of software. I'm using it right now to transcode. #kde #gnu | Sep 22 13:21 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Lee Hollaar and software is not math, thus patentable: http://i5.be/Kn | Sep 22 13:27 | |
oiaohm | Timing is so good I was trying to remember the name of the program that I used for video editing I nuked schestowitz | Sep 22 13:34 |
oiaohm | Thanks. | Sep 22 13:34 |
_Hicham_ | oiaohm : cinelerra | Sep 22 13:35 |
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oiaohm | cinelerra I don't use. I move between Blenders built in video editor and kdenlive. kdenlive when I don't need effect blender can do more than cinelerra when it setup. | Sep 22 13:42 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] You know how you can't buy Miracleman anywhere on the face of the earth? Anon delivers: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=F59VARCB | Sep 22 13:43 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] If Vista 7 is as Good as Microsoft Says, Then Why is Microsoft Actively Attacking GNU/Linux? http://ping.fm/JlhOc | Sep 22 13:47 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Patents Roundup: #IntellectualMonopolies Under Attack, #IBM and Patent Trolls Get Miserable http://ping.fm/qzSSL | Sep 22 14:22 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NSFW, covered in pr0n ads, but 4chanarchive has a thread with every goddamn comic you could never get downloadable http://is.gd/3yVOi | Sep 22 14:22 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] according to Oklahoma Republicans, all pornography is homosexual http://is.gd/3yVOi whew, glad that's been cleared up. p.s. COCK. | Sep 22 14:25 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] New Official Ubuntu PPA for Tomboy, with 1.0.0 for Jaunty, please test! http://bit.ly/C7NSE | Sep 22 14:31 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Slashes Benefits to Its Covert Partners http://ping.fm/ipAFO | Sep 22 15:02 | |
Zilog | Do they mean it's only porn if it's homosexual ?? LOL, (making everything else _NOT_ porn) | Sep 22 15:15 |
Diablo-D3 | I have no porn on my storage array then. | Sep 22 15:15 |
Zilog | Same here, I was thinking the same, im trying to work out what ive been looking at for all these years :D | Sep 22 15:16 |
Zilog | Must be ok then | Sep 22 15:16 |
Diablo-D3 | I should rename my array's mount too | Sep 22 15:17 |
Diablo-D3 | apparently /porn is no longer valid | Sep 22 15:17 |
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Zilog | it's so if you live in Ok then when you're strapped to the lie detector as asked if you watch porn they can "honestly" say no. | Sep 22 15:18 |
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Zilog | after 30 years in the electronics and computer industry, on the "net" since the bbs's before the WWW, I made my very first online purchase just last week :) | Sep 22 15:25 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: the Groklaw post is now public | Sep 22 15:26 |
schestowitz | Interesting indeed | Sep 22 15:26 |
wallclimber | yes, it certainly is! | Sep 22 15:26 |
Zilog | is that the one about patents on math/software ? | Sep 22 15:27 |
wallclimber | Zilog, go read it and you'll know what it's about. | Sep 22 15:30 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: but I've always assumed it works like that. You just need to familiarise self with the 'neighbourhood' | Sep 22 15:30 |
schestowitz | Microsoft works in groups with journos and profs whom it likes to use for help | Sep 22 15:30 |
schestowitz | We did the journalists list recently | Sep 22 15:30 |
schestowitz | That 'Alexander' dude is trolling me too | Sep 22 15:31 |
wallclimber | yes, i've noticed :) | Sep 22 15:31 |
schestowitz | For years | Sep 22 15:31 |
schestowitz | I think he used to work for IBM, but that's another story | Sep 22 15:31 |
schestowitz | He's also a SCO and Wallace fan | Sep 22 15:31 |
schestowitz | The whole anti-GPL club | Sep 22 15:31 |
schestowitz | Finding the connections to Microsoft is now getting easier | Sep 22 15:32 |
schestowitz | Like MOG and SCO | Sep 22 15:32 |
schestowitz | And then MOG and MSFT (and W-E) | Sep 22 15:32 |
schestowitz | They share the same pee pool. | Sep 22 15:32 |
wallclimber | it's good that it's all being documented publically. | Sep 22 15:32 |
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Zilog | wallclimber, yes I read it earlier, prompted me to do some research, for the challenge Im trying to build a case for the affirmative, that being that software is just math, but it's not easy. suggestions welcome. | Sep 22 15:35 |
wallclimber | Zilog, this link is a good place to start, it's a huge list of resources, plus the comments on many of the posts about software patents are very very helpful. | Sep 22 15:39 |
wallclimber | http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=20050402193202442 | Sep 22 15:39 |
Zilog | cool, thanks | Sep 22 15:39 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Windows Compromises #Bank Accounts While M-Com and #Microsoft Launch Mobile #Banking Service http://ping.fm/YZlbC | Sep 22 15:48 | |
schestowitz | Sun is losing $100 million a month http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1534320/sun-losing-usd100-million | Sep 22 15:49 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Revitalise US sport: make it a ladder of divisions, like European football http://is.gd/3z5iW | Sep 22 15:49 | |
schestowitz | wallclimber: it's _mutex_ BTW | Sep 22 15:49 |
schestowitz | He's like SCO... no matter the amount of plonking, it keeps arising from somewhere | Sep 22 15:50 |
wallclimber | Yes, i knew that, he was on here last night. | Sep 22 15:50 |
wallclimber | easy to spot him. | Sep 22 15:50 |
wallclimber | Figured that link to GL's patent page would keep him busy for a while :) | Sep 22 15:52 |
schestowitz | Finally there's a company selling Vista-capable PCs. http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1534314/sgi-releases-personal-supercomputer | Sep 22 15:52 |
Zilog | about 3 months :) | Sep 22 15:53 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] APT reimplementation Cupt aims at even more maintainability of #Debian GNU/ #Linux packages http://wiki.debian.org/Cupt http://ur1.ca/c57g | Sep 22 15:53 | |
schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?q=site:www.groklaw.net+mutex&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8&hl=en-GB | Sep 22 15:54 |
schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&c2coff=1&q=site%3Awww.groklaw.net+zilog&aq=f&oq=&aqi= | Sep 22 15:54 |
schestowitz | Maybe he leaves /them/ alone, at least | Sep 22 15:54 |
wallclimber | interesting... | Sep 22 15:55 |
schestowitz | Microsoft's new partner ComScore is now congratulating Microsoft -- again | Sep 22 15:56 |
schestowitz | This was SO predictable | Sep 22 15:56 |
schestowitz | And the MSBBC covers it | Sep 22 15:56 |
schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8268356.stm | Sep 22 15:56 |
schestowitz | Wow. 0.4% gain, claims Microsoft partner | Sep 22 15:56 |
wallclimber | i just about spit my morning coffee out yesterday morning reading about Gates giving Gates an award...sheesh. | Sep 22 15:58 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @ciphergoth But then, we knew the OK GOP are crazy - their gay-obsessed platform must be read to be believed http://is.gd/3z2nn | Sep 22 15:58 | |
schestowitz | BBC has another bias new report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8267142.stm | Sep 22 15:59 |
schestowitz | It gives a voice only to pro-MAFIAA artists | Sep 22 15:59 |
schestowitz | Not to those opposing it | Sep 22 16:00 |
schestowitz | The BBC is in the media industry also, so the bias it to be expected | Sep 22 16:00 |
wallclimber | Hey, only criminals oppose the MAFIAA, right? :) | Sep 22 16:00 |
schestowitz | Yes | Sep 22 16:00 |
schestowitz | Bas evil criminals | Sep 22 16:00 |
schestowitz | Like Jammie | Sep 22 16:00 |
wallclimber | so there can't possibly be a valid opposing viewpoint. | Sep 22 16:01 |
schestowitz | Those pirates will rape our kids and plunder with glee | Sep 22 16:01 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: no | Sep 22 16:01 |
wallclimber | yar! :) | Sep 22 16:01 |
schestowitz | It's already decided | Sep 22 16:01 |
schestowitz | I thought that law was supposed to serve voters' interests | Sep 22 16:02 |
schestowitz | Instead they get indoctrinated to foolishly 'like' what they are taught by big corps is good for them | Sep 22 16:02 |
wallclimber | yes, they serve voter's interests...for lunch. | Sep 22 16:02 |
schestowitz | Fortunately, enlightening views are being passed now via the Net | Sep 22 16:02 |
schestowitz | OBAMAA is keen on silencing blogs -- or rather -- he riricules them | Sep 22 16:03 |
wallclimber | that's why they are working soooo hard to squelch the Net. | Sep 22 16:03 |
schestowitz | Shame on him. It's blogs that put him in the white house, among other things | Sep 22 16:03 |
schestowitz | Biden and OBAMAA have filled the DoJ with former RIAA lawyers | Sep 22 16:03 |
Diablo-D3 | holy crap schestowitz | Sep 22 16:03 |
schestowitz | This was so predictable given Biden's background | Sep 22 16:03 |
Diablo-D3 | tone it down a bit | Sep 22 16:03 |
schestowitz | In whose favour? | Sep 22 16:04 |
schestowitz | Obama disappoints, still | Sep 22 16:04 |
schestowitz | Not as bad as McBush would have been, but still... | Sep 22 16:04 |
schestowitz | People could pressure him more | Sep 22 16:04 |
schestowitz | Look at healthcare | Sep 22 16:04 |
schestowitz | he allowed AstroTurfing to influence his decision | Sep 22 16:04 |
schestowitz | So he'll let hundreds of thousands of good Americans die now so that fat cats can monetise this death | Sep 22 16:05 |
wallclimber | well, i don't agree with you on all of that. | Sep 22 16:06 |
Diablo-D3 | roy has jumped off the deep end again | Sep 22 16:06 |
schestowitz | He strengthens PATRIOT. He lied about it. | Sep 22 16:06 |
wallclimber must have insurance .... | Sep 22 16:07 | |
schestowitz | wallclimber: the healthcare astroturf is real | Sep 22 16:07 |
schestowitz | It got exposed | Sep 22 16:07 |
schestowitz | There is a moral issue here (and morTal), not just fianncial | Sep 22 16:07 |
wallclimber | no, wallclimber does not have insurance. i haven't had health ins for over 15 years | Sep 22 16:07 |
schestowitz | Over 40% of US citizens have no isurance | Sep 22 16:08 |
then you must live in a state with a good charity hospital | Sep 22 16:08 | |
insurance, as it is in the US, is a fraud | Sep 22 16:08 | |
wallclimber | i am in the unfortunate situation of being a part of the population that insurance companies don't like to insure. | Sep 22 16:08 |
then surely, you must see that there's a real problem. | Sep 22 16:09 | |
wallclimber | of course i see a real problem, don't be silly. | Sep 22 16:09 |
schestowitz | :-) | Sep 22 16:09 |
do you think the problem is being addressed properly? | Sep 22 16:09 | |
or do you realize that no real change is on the way. | Sep 22 16:09 | |
I'm with Kucinich on health care. | Sep 22 16:10 | |
the US lets it's poor and weak members simply die. | Sep 22 16:10 | |
schestowitz | "Meg Whitman, the ex-boss of eBay, has confirmed her bid to replace Arnold Schwarzenegger as governor of California." http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/22/ebay_california_governor/ | Sep 22 16:10 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] EU Open Internet petition http://www.euopeninternet.eu/ HT @glynmoody | Sep 22 16:10 | |
*schestowitz liks Kucinich's views | Sep 22 16:10 | |
wallclimber | i NEVER believed that anything would change except the faces in the white house. | Sep 22 16:10 |
schestowitz | /half/ white house | Sep 22 16:11 |
Diablo-D3 | ron paul > * | Sep 22 16:11 |
well then, you agree with what Roy said. :) | Sep 22 16:11 | |
wallclimber | roy, that's not a comment i ever expected to see from you... | Sep 22 16:11 |
schestowitz | His brother seems inarticulate | Sep 22 16:11 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: I don't think it's really racist | Sep 22 16:12 |
schestowitz | I thought about it before commenting | Sep 22 16:12 |
Zilog | wallclimber, agreed. | Sep 22 16:12 |
schestowitz | It implies that things change for the better | Sep 22 16:12 |
hmmm, gotta go. | Sep 22 16:13 | |
schestowitz | ALthough the Republicans did the same -- something unimaginable some decades ago | Sep 22 16:13 |
*twitter has quit ("Leaving.") | Sep 22 16:13 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] It's a world of w0rng that I want one now http://is.gd/3z7Ts @illdrinn, if they ever come to Sydney ... | Sep 22 16:13 | |
wallclimber | well, i guess i need to stop commenting when zilog agrees with me. | Sep 22 16:14 |
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schestowitz | wallclimber: he does this all the time | Sep 22 16:14 |
schestowitz | Any opportunity to jump on to smear us | Sep 22 16:14 |
schestowitz | Done that before with like 10-20 other nyms | Sep 22 16:14 |
schestowitz | Anyway, the white house can cause the world a lot of grief when it's truly just controlled by the same people like Kissinger | Sep 22 16:15 |
schestowitz | He's _still_ around | Sep 22 16:15 |
schestowitz | Thew Democrats put him back in a position of influence | Sep 22 16:15 |
schestowitz | It affects many non-US citizens as South American, for instance, found out | Sep 22 16:16 |
schestowitz | Twitter-based mafia game irritates world+dog < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/22/mobster_world/ > | Sep 22 16:16 |
schestowitz | I fell a victim to it ^^^ | Sep 22 16:16 |
Zilog | what do I do Roy, Agree with someone other then you sometimes ? I found what you said repugnent, but worse you leave youself way open with quips like that. | Sep 22 16:16 |
schestowitz | They should be sued or something those Twitter trashers | Sep 22 16:16 |
schestowitz | Goldman Sachs predicts IT spending rise < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/22/small_business_recession_prediction/ > | Sep 22 16:17 |
schestowitz | Goldman Sachs is still not being investoigated. | Sep 22 16:17 |
*wallclimber has quit ("wallclimber wanders off...") | Sep 22 16:18 | |
schestowitz | Making jokes in text is bound to be misintepreted anyway. I should have added the sarcasm tag | Sep 22 16:19 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Hmm,been out of the house.Lots of help windows open.I suspect a small person has been stabbing F1.Must lock when away from keyboard! | Sep 22 16:20 | |
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*schestowitz gives channel operator status to phIRCe | Sep 22 17:02 | |
trmanco | I wonder if it can last very long online :-P | Sep 22 17:03 |
schestowitz | Doesn't matter | Sep 22 17:03 |
trmanco | !kick phIRCe | Sep 22 17:03 |
*phIRCe has kicked phIRCe from #boycottnovell (Don't take this personally!) | Sep 22 17:03 | |
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phIRCe | How dare you kick me! | Sep 22 17:03 |
trmanco | :) | Sep 22 17:03 |
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to phIRCe | Sep 22 17:03 | |
trmanco | you can also start it through apache | Sep 22 17:04 |
trmanco | you can hit the url and it will load | Sep 22 17:04 |
schestowitz | http://twitter.com/jeffmhubbard/statuses/4164078845 "Not impressed by Lotus Symphony, but thanks for ODF support and the Linux version anyways... !linux !symphony" | Sep 22 17:04 |
schestowitz | IBM is too proud to use OOo internally | Sep 22 17:04 |
schestowitz | They made their own version | Sep 22 17:04 |
trmanco | after a while just leave the page and it won't die until the server dies or you call a quit on it | Sep 22 17:04 |
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to trmanco | Sep 22 17:05 | |
schestowitz | BNc uses Perl | Sep 22 17:05 |
trmanco | I could also fetch twitter stuff | Sep 22 17:06 |
trmanco | but I just didn't implement it yet | Sep 22 17:06 |
schestowitz | Maybe do identi.ca | Sep 22 17:06 |
schestowitz | Though I could do that with twitfolk somehow | Sep 22 17:06 |
schestowitz | Anyway, back l8er | Sep 22 17:06 |
trmanco | whoo | Sep 22 17:10 |
trmanco | it didn't die yet | Sep 22 17:10 |
trmanco | test | Sep 22 17:17 |
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*jono has quit ("Later, Skater") | Sep 22 17:50 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] @davidgerard even @nytimes | Sep 22 18:05 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] #PewResearch study: Public perception of #MassMedia accuracy reaches two decade low 63% say news generally inaccurate http://ur1.ca/c5it | Sep 22 18:13 | |
trmanco | still rolling :D | Sep 22 18:17 |
trmanco | did any one see the bot's notice? | Sep 22 18:30 |
*_goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 22 18:36 | |
trmanco | I can't figure out how to send the ctpc version to somebody when requested :| | Sep 22 18:46 |
trmanco | my "implementation" doesn't follow the standard :| | Sep 22 18:46 |
*Omar87 (n=omar@94.249.85.94.go.com.jo) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 22 18:47 | |
Omar87 | Hi all. | Sep 22 18:49 |
trmanco | hey | Sep 22 18:49 |
_goblin | hi | Sep 22 18:52 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] listening to Green to Black by Rebelution - http://bit.ly/PLQIt Awesome song!! | Sep 22 19:07 | |
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schestowitz | Intresting: http://www.twit.tv/floss17 | Sep 22 19:22 |
schestowitz | Hi, _goblin | Sep 22 19:22 |
schestowitz | trmanco: http://br-linux.org/2009/para-richard-stallman-miguel-de-icaza-seria-basicamente-um-traidor-da-comunidade-de-codigo-aberto/ | Sep 22 19:27 |
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trmanco | schestowitz: yeah | Sep 22 19:30 |
trmanco | great site | Sep 22 19:30 |
trmanco | btw | Sep 22 19:30 |
trmanco | I'm impressed, the bot is still alive :) | Sep 22 19:32 |
schestowitz | Following Your GPS Over A Cliff Is No Excuse For Bad Driving http://techdirt.com/articles/20090918/0148046235.shtml | Sep 22 19:32 |
schestowitz | trmanco: they link to use a lot | Sep 22 19:32 |
trmanco | cool | Sep 22 19:33 |
schestowitz | Open Mania though it the 'Big' site... we never get cited by them | Sep 22 19:33 |
trmanco | heh | Sep 22 19:33 |
schestowitz | Loco Mania | Sep 22 19:33 |
schestowitz | Kentucky Poker Case Heads to State’s Supreme Court http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/7589-kentucky-poker-case-heads-to-states-supreme-court | Sep 22 19:34 |
schestowitz | http://mono-nono.com/2009/09/22/software-freedom-day-transcript/ Software Freedom Day Transcript? | Sep 22 19:38 |
schestowitz | "I am hoping a compromise can be found between advancement and Linux's historical qualities." http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-09-22-014-35-NW-KN-EV-0000 | Sep 22 19:40 |
schestowitz | trmanco: does phIRCe acts as a language policeman? | Sep 22 19:40 |
schestowitz | *act | Sep 22 19:40 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] do you have the mental aptitude to program? http://is.gd/3zsgg | Sep 22 19:43 | |
trmanco | schestowitz: yes | Sep 22 19:45 |
trmanco | try it :-P | Sep 22 19:45 |
trmanco | but it doesn't have many words | Sep 22 19:45 |
schestowitz | People with boats... what utter pollution for vanity...... http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/09/paul_allen_on_reported_archeological_mission_off_israel_coast.html?ana=from_rss | Sep 22 19:46 |
trmanco | !test | Sep 22 19:46 |
trmanco | !test o | Sep 22 19:46 |
phIRCe | Not a valid command! | Sep 22 19:46 |
schestowitz | LOL | Sep 22 19:46 |
trmanco | just testing to see if it was alive | Sep 22 19:47 |
trmanco | I wonder how well this can handle 30 lines :| | Sep 22 19:47 |
schestowitz | http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/article/319401/ | Sep 22 19:47 |
*fewa_ has quit (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)) | Sep 22 19:47 | |
*trmanco checks mem and cpu % | Sep 22 19:47 | |
schestowitz | kde4 has great meters for this | Sep 22 19:48 |
schestowitz | ksystguard is improved | Sep 22 19:48 |
schestowitz | Albeit simplified too much for my liking | Sep 22 19:48 |
trmanco | I use htop | Sep 22 19:48 |
schestowitz | The old style ksysguard gave more technical details | Sep 22 19:48 |
trmanco | ksysguard still missed the whole monitor panel thing | Sep 22 19:48 |
trmanco | it needs more tabs | Sep 22 19:48 |
schestowitz | The panel widgets have a monitor that does scaling and shows CPU usage for each core even. Very nice. | Sep 22 19:48 |
*fewa has quit (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)) | Sep 22 19:48 | |
schestowitz | trmanco: there are probaly old style ones too | Sep 22 19:49 |
schestowitz | I think they simplified it on purpose | Sep 22 19:49 |
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trmanco | hmm | Sep 22 19:49 |
schestowitz | In KDE 4.0.0 they showed an SVG-0enabled ksysguard | Sep 22 19:49 |
schestowitz | It looked good | Sep 22 19:49 |
schestowitz | I remember the days when you had to ctrl+alt+esc to kill bad windows | Sep 22 19:50 |
schestowitz | or use the other means of course | Sep 22 19:50 |
schestowitz | Now it's smart like gnome | Sep 22 19:50 |
trmanco | the bot is using 0.5 MB of ram !!!!11!! | Sep 22 19:50 |
phIRCe | Not a valid command! | Sep 22 19:50 |
schestowitz | If the window does not respond it prompts to terminate it | Sep 22 19:50 |
trmanco | LOL | Sep 22 19:50 |
schestowitz | Ubuntu 4.10 was the first tkme I saw thid | Sep 22 19:50 |
trmanco | it's ctrl+alt+del | Sep 22 19:50 |
schestowitz | twitfolk uses 4.5 MB | Sep 22 19:51 |
trmanco | test! | Sep 22 19:51 |
schestowitz | Lots of CPAN module of Perl | Sep 22 19:51 |
trmanco | test ! | Sep 22 19:51 |
phIRCe | Not a valid command! | Sep 22 19:51 |
schestowitz | *modules | Sep 22 19:51 |
trmanco | :| | Sep 22 19:51 |
schestowitz | I had to compile and install them all manually, but it's a one-time thing | Sep 22 19:51 |
schestowitz | I listened to Randall Scwartz on Perl this morning. Very interesting. | Sep 22 19:51 |
schestowitz | *Chwa | Sep 22 19:51 |
trmanco | 0.6 mb | Sep 22 19:52 |
trmanco | I wonder when is zend optimizer going to kick in. heh | Sep 22 19:52 |
schestowitz | LD Port Report 1.12 update aka the Host and MAC Reporting tool http://www.linuxdynasty.org/ld-port-report-112-update-aka-the-host-and-mac-reporting-tool.html | Sep 22 19:52 |
trmanco | cool | Sep 22 19:52 |
schestowitz | I've come to realise that anti-Linux propagandists have become pathetic | Sep 22 19:52 |
trmanco | went back to 0.5 mb | Sep 22 19:52 |
schestowitz | I remember it some years back when they had some ammo left | Sep 22 19:52 |
schestowitz | Now they have Vista vs KDE4 | Sep 22 19:52 |
schestowitz | The whole "people need Windows to run their apps" thing went down the toilet | Sep 22 19:53 |
schestowitz | Vista 7 will need to run XP VM to just run old apps, and that too can't last forever. THey can't carry the whole of XP as compat' layer for so long, it's also a security hazard | Sep 22 19:54 |
schestowitz | Does Size Matter? Picking a Sane Password Policy http://www.enterprisenetworkingplanet.com/_featured/article.php/3840181/Does-Size-Matter-Picking-a-Sane-Password-Policy. | Sep 22 19:54 |
trmanco | I out to make the bot fetch link titles :-P | Sep 22 19:54 |
trmanco | ought* | Sep 22 19:54 |
schestowitz | OK, i'm getting tried of Bing-sponsored Bishop speaking about _US_ market share as though it's global. http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/09/microsoft_search_share_tops_9_for_first_time_in_more_than_year.html?ana=from_rss Microsoft fools everyone by only showing some numbers from a business partner that measures things in the most friendly population (to Microsoft) | Sep 22 19:56 |
schestowitz | Linux Lands on Panasonic Toughbooks http://www.thevarguy.com/2009/09/22/linux-lands-on-panasonic-toughbooks/ Cool....... | Sep 22 19:57 |
trmanco | !kick trmanco | Sep 22 19:58 |
*phIRCe has kicked trmanco from #boycottnovell (Don't take this personally!) | Sep 22 19:58 | |
*trmanco (n=trmanco@drwxr-xr-x.org) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 22 19:58 | |
trmanco | !op trmanco | Sep 22 19:58 |
*phIRCe gives channel operator status to trmanco | Sep 22 19:58 | |
trmanco | heh | Sep 22 19:58 |
*trmanco is now known as trmanco_ | Sep 22 20:00 | |
trmanco_ | !deop trmanco_ | Sep 22 20:00 |
trmanco_ | haha | Sep 22 20:00 |
trmanco_ | [20:02] [Notice] -phIRCe- You are not allowed to control me! | Sep 22 20:00 |
*trmanco_ is now known as trmanco | Sep 22 20:00 | |
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schestowitz | It's like watching a men and his stubborn old mule doing a power play. "Sit, bot, sit!!!" | Sep 22 20:08 |
schestowitz | *man... | Sep 22 20:08 |
schestowitz | WinMob beaten by the mob http://www.rethink-wireless.com/?article_id=1916 | Sep 22 20:08 |
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DaemonFC | I finally got ahold of someone at Comcast that knew what was going on | Sep 22 20:17 |
MinceR | hi to you too | Sep 22 20:17 |
DaemonFC | according to him, when I max out my bandwidth, sometimes the modem will try to switch channels and that causes a reset | Sep 22 20:18 |
DaemonFC | he said that will be fixed by November | Sep 22 20:18 |
DaemonFC | the network is being upgraded to DOCSIS 3.0 and they're purging analog channels from their lineup | Sep 22 20:19 |
schestowitz | Bandwidth never runs out | Sep 22 20:19 |
schestowitz | It's like saying that electricity on the wires is limited | Sep 22 20:20 |
*jono has quit ("Later, Skater") | Sep 22 20:20 | |
DaemonFC | their network capacity does have a limit | Sep 22 20:20 |
schestowitz | Yes, that's when they get more fibre | Sep 22 20:21 |
schestowitz | Are they broke? | Sep 22 20:21 |
schestowitz | Or enjoying a duopoly? | Sep 22 20:21 |
schestowitz | They should adjust to users' (customers') needs | Sep 22 20:21 |
schestowitz | Not the other way around | Sep 22 20:21 |
trmanco | actually | Sep 22 20:21 |
schestowitz | Else it's indicative of a market which is not competitive and stagnates | Sep 22 20:21 |
trmanco | electricity has it's limits | Sep 22 20:22 |
schestowitz | But high-quality video is a real drainer | Sep 22 20:22 |
trmanco | :-p | Sep 22 20:22 |
schestowitz | trmanco: we get more from the Sun | Sep 22 20:22 |
schestowitz | Earth's problem is not energy | Sep 22 20:22 |
schestowitz | We have too much of it, not just in a form we can process proprly | Sep 22 20:22 |
trmanco | I mean, wires have limits | Sep 22 20:22 |
schestowitz | Some is "too expensive" to use | Sep 22 20:22 |
trmanco | the sun is great | Sep 22 20:22 |
trmanco | the sun is what heats up the water here at home | Sep 22 20:23 |
schestowitz | Capture sun versus dead animals underground (biological matrial) | Sep 22 20:23 |
trmanco | on a sunny day though | Sep 22 20:23 |
schestowitz | trmanco: yes, good use | Sep 22 20:23 |
schestowitz | In Britain it's gas | Sep 22 20:23 |
trmanco | in the winter, it's no good :| | Sep 22 20:23 |
trmanco | but better than nothing | Sep 22 20:23 |
schestowitz | Electricity is popular too, esp. in other places | Sep 22 20:23 |
schestowitz | Thermal-solar panel are better where there is more light and higher energy prices | Sep 22 20:24 |
trmanco | yeah, in Canada it's gas or electricity too | Sep 22 20:24 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, This town is pretty backwards | Sep 22 20:24 |
schestowitz | http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7527/1.html | Sep 22 20:24 |
DaemonFC | I can definitely see why Fort Wayne got the upgrades first | Sep 22 20:24 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: well, they have you ! | Sep 22 20:25 |
*Lns has quit ("Φ") | Sep 22 20:25 | |
DaemonFC | I'm saying there's not many customers in this town compared to Fort Wayne or Indianapolis | Sep 22 20:25 |
DaemonFC | there's only about 18,000 people here | Sep 22 20:25 |
schestowitz | Quirky streaming of videos of a symptom of intolerable bandwidth | Sep 22 20:25 |
schestowitz | Still, better than 14k baud | Sep 22 20:26 |
DaemonFC | there's about 350,000 in Ft. Wayne and about 1.5 million in Indianapolis | Sep 22 20:26 |
DaemonFC | there's about a third of Indiana's population in the two largest cities | Sep 22 20:26 |
schestowitz | Linux gets its cat: http://techie-buzz.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-10-04-lucid-lynx.html | Sep 22 20:27 |
DaemonFC | wouldn't you prioritize them for the upgrades? | Sep 22 20:27 |
schestowitz | US broadband lags | Sep 22 20:27 |
schestowitz | If the news is correct | Sep 22 20:27 |
schestowitz | The Asia countries surge ahead | Sep 22 20:27 |
schestowitz | Singapore, Korea, Taiwan, tec. | Sep 22 20:27 |
schestowitz | *etc | Sep 22 20:28 |
schestowitz | 10GBpS | Sep 22 20:28 |
DaemonFC | I think my connection is pretty fast overall | Sep 22 20:28 |
DaemonFC | definitely a lot better than just a few years ago | Sep 22 20:29 |
schestowitz | Well, they already make most of our computers, sometimes but not always under the brands of Western nations. That will change as they acquire debt-saddled former giants like RCA | Sep 22 20:29 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, RCA does not exist | Sep 22 20:29 |
DaemonFC | they haven't since the early 90s | Sep 22 20:29 |
*schestowitz has been on 100MB/sec since 2000 | Sep 22 20:29 | |
fewa | wowsers | Sep 22 20:29 |
fewa | I want that | Sep 22 20:29 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: I know | Sep 22 20:29 |
schestowitz | I said "like" | Sep 22 20:30 |
fewa | you know good cheap colo or VPS? | Sep 22 20:30 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, YOu refer to Thomson Consumer Electronics | Sep 22 20:30 |
DaemonFC | a patent troll that ate RCA | Sep 22 20:30 |
schestowitz | But I bought an RCA tuner in 1998 in FL | Sep 22 20:30 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, My dad is pissed because Thomson has been using the patents he got while he worked for RCA | Sep 22 20:30 |
DaemonFC | to commit extortion of other companies | Sep 22 20:31 |
schestowitz | I see.... | Sep 22 20:31 |
schestowitz | Isn't this hidden? | Sep 22 20:31 |
schestowitz | Companies come with piles of papers to extort? | Sep 22 20:31 |
DaemonFC | not as well as they would like | Sep 22 20:31 |
fewa | I've always thought residential bandwidth should come up and serveres and desktops should be indistinguishable | Sep 22 20:31 |
DaemonFC | he still knows people there and hears about what they're doing | Sep 22 20:31 |
fewa | but there is so much discrimination | Sep 22 20:32 |
DaemonFC | he worked there from 1976 to 2001 | Sep 22 20:32 |
fewa | Verizizon blocks 80 incoming and 25 outgoing | Sep 22 20:32 |
fewa | etc, etc | Sep 22 20:32 |
fewa | more down than up | Sep 22 20:32 |
fewa | the strong desire to turn people into consumers, not producers | Sep 22 20:32 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, Microsoft is trying to move copies of Windows Home Server | Sep 22 20:32 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Windows Snacks: http://is.gd/3zwC5 | Sep 22 20:32 | |
DaemonFC | by bundling them in Newegg and Tiger Direct deals | Sep 22 20:32 |
DaemonFC | this Netgear router is free with promo code if you buy it with Windows Home Server :P | Sep 22 20:33 |
schestowitz | trmanco: would you eat those? | Sep 22 20:35 |
schestowitz | There coule be viruses. | Sep 22 20:35 |
trmanco | no | Sep 22 20:35 |
trmanco | not really a big fan of "junk food" | Sep 22 20:35 |
schestowitz | I don't trust Windows on my desk | Sep 22 20:35 |
schestowitz | I'm not ready to trust it with my dining table | Sep 22 20:35 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @trmanco Windows Snacks: http://ur1.ca/c5tl Ingredients: Corn, vegetable Oil, Salt, Cheese Flavor, Conflicker, Sasser | Sep 22 20:37 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @trmanco #Windows Snacks: http://ur1.ca/c5tl Ingredients: Corn, vegetable Oil, Salt, Cheese Flavor, Conflicker, Sasser | Sep 22 20:38 | |
trmanco | weird | Sep 22 20:39 |
MinceR | :D | Sep 22 20:39 |
schestowitz | *LOL* | Sep 22 20:41 |
*ziggyfish has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Sep 22 20:41 | |
schestowitz | Reg Trolls: Ubuntu's Lucid Lynx sprays sweet perfume at freeloaders < http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/09/21/ubuntu_lucid_lynx/ > | Sep 22 20:42 |
schestowitz | "freeloaders" | Sep 22 20:42 |
schestowitz | Kelly.. | Sep 22 20:43 |
schestowitz | Make Compiz Run More Smoothly on Linux Desktops < http://lifehacker.com/5363989/make-compiz-run-more-smoothly-on-linux-desktops > | Sep 22 20:43 |
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schestowitz | Compiz? wotz dat? KDE4 has these 'things' in the menus | Sep 22 20:44 |
DaemonFC | lmao | Sep 22 20:45 |
DaemonFC | sprays freeloaders | Sep 22 20:45 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, Compiz is like the white trash second cousin of KWin's compositor in my opinion | Sep 22 20:45 |
DaemonFC | Compiz has never worked quite right, especially when you run Windows games in Wine | Sep 22 20:46 |
DaemonFC | I see a lot of people complain of that | Sep 22 20:46 |
DaemonFC | KWin has no such problems | Sep 22 20:46 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @scientes @trmanco #Windows Snacks: http://ur1.ca/c5tl Ingredients: Corn, vegetable Oil, Salt, Cheese Flavor, Conflicker, Sasser | Sep 22 20:47 | |
trmanco | is this in some kind of a loop? | Sep 22 20:48 |
trmanco | :-P | Sep 22 20:48 |
trmanco | oh | Sep 22 20:48 |
trmanco | another person recycled it | Sep 22 20:48 |
DaemonFC | they say Windows has lots of viruses | Sep 22 20:48 |
MinceR | the meme spreads ;) | Sep 22 20:48 |
DaemonFC | I've only personally ran into two in the last 15 years or so | Sep 22 20:49 |
DaemonFC | and both were detected before they could do damage | Sep 22 20:49 |
fewa | but if you credit everyone the list will get kinda long.... :P | Sep 22 20:49 |
DaemonFC | so I averaged maybe 1 virus every 7.5 years and they didn't even get to damage or infect anything before they were detected | Sep 22 20:49 |
DaemonFC | viruses really are being given a much harder time than they used to be | Sep 22 20:50 |
DaemonFC | XP pre-SP2 didn't really do anything to defend itself | Sep 22 20:51 |
DaemonFC | it still gets that reputation though because morons infect themselves or run all kinds of pirated software with no antivirus | Sep 22 20:51 |
DaemonFC | people on torrent sites spread pre-infected copies of Windows with all kinds of bad shit | Sep 22 20:52 |
*phIRCe has kicked DaemonFC from #boycottnovell (Watch you language!) | Sep 22 20:52 | |
*DaemonFC (i=Ryan@69.245.224.210) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 22 20:52 | |
DaemonFC | censorbot | Sep 22 20:52 |
DaemonFC | f*ck you too | Sep 22 20:52 |
DaemonFC | silly schestowitz, censorship is for the Chinese | Sep 22 20:53 |
DaemonFC | :) | Sep 22 20:53 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, Oddly enough, I got a Zogby survey asking me how I felt about China | Sep 22 20:54 |
DaemonFC | the gist of my reply was good people oppressed by a bad government | Sep 22 20:54 |
trmanco | http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2009/09/plasma-44-update-on-where-we-are.html | Sep 22 20:54 |
trmanco | haha | Sep 22 20:55 |
fewa | DaemonFC, which government? | Sep 22 20:55 |
fewa | there are many | Sep 22 20:55 |
DaemonFC | the PRC regime | Sep 22 20:55 |
DaemonFC | the illegitimate Chinese regime | Sep 22 20:55 |
fewa | im not going there | Sep 22 20:55 |
MinceR | that's one | Sep 22 20:55 |
MinceR | there's also the RoC :> | Sep 22 20:56 |
fewa | (no as in travel) | Sep 22 20:56 |
fewa | ^^^^ | Sep 22 20:56 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, the ROC is the legitimate Chinese government | Sep 22 20:56 |
MinceR | oh, then we agree on this | Sep 22 20:56 |
DaemonFC | that I'm disgusted by the PRC? | Sep 22 20:56 |
DaemonFC | our recognition of them? | Sep 22 20:56 |
DaemonFC | yes | Sep 22 20:57 |
DaemonFC | We should embargo them | Sep 22 20:57 |
DaemonFC | we won't do it though because of rich special interests | Sep 22 20:57 |
fewa | ooo, i though MinceR was saying the RoC was the other illigitmate govenment, as a joke | Sep 22 20:57 |
MinceR | :D | Sep 22 20:57 |
MinceR | well, in a sense all forms of government are illegitimate :> | Sep 22 20:57 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, The PRC is a perfect example of a tyrannical government that has grown so powerful and entrenched that nobody can get rid of it | Sep 22 20:58 |
DaemonFC | they'd murder every last Chinese person before they gave up power | Sep 22 20:58 |
MinceR | i know, right? | Sep 22 20:59 |
DaemonFC | well, this just shows what a damned joke the UN is | Sep 22 20:59 |
DaemonFC | ideally there would be a worldwide embargo until the PRC gave up control | Sep 22 20:59 |
MinceR | i'm not sure if that could work | Sep 22 21:00 |
DaemonFC | sure it would | Sep 22 21:00 |
MinceR | they seem to be big enough to be self-sufficient if they wanted to be | Sep 22 21:00 |
DaemonFC | the government would fall apart | Sep 22 21:00 |
MinceR | and they'd probably choose isolation before giving up power. | Sep 22 21:00 |
MinceR | i doubt it would | Sep 22 21:00 |
DaemonFC | they rely largely on a constant stream of dollars and Euros | Sep 22 21:00 |
MinceR | it didn't fall apart in north korea either | Sep 22 21:00 |
DaemonFC | they're very inefficient | Sep 22 21:01 |
DaemonFC | they're already overstretched as it is | Sep 22 21:01 |
fewa | schestowitz, you dont show up in search ? http://twitter.com/#search?q=%23windows | Sep 22 21:01 |
DaemonFC | and on top of that, they're trying to run things like a manned space program | Sep 22 21:01 |
DaemonFC | ideally there would be an "International Space Agency" | Sep 22 21:02 |
DaemonFC | because what we have now carries a lot of redundancies | Sep 22 21:02 |
DaemonFC | every country is trying to run their own independent space program and all of them keep getting cut for lack of budget | Sep 22 21:03 |
trmanco | fewa: search is real time | Sep 22 21:03 |
trmanco | he might of already passed | Sep 22 21:04 |
fewa | but mine was first | Sep 22 21:04 |
trmanco | oh | Sep 22 21:05 |
DaemonFC | I was walking the Comcast tech through dual booting Windows with Linux | Sep 22 21:05 |
DaemonFC | cause he mentioned it interested him | Sep 22 21:05 |
DaemonFC | heh | Sep 22 21:05 |
trmanco | you are scientes? | Sep 22 21:05 |
*fewa has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 22 21:06 | |
schestowitz | Lawyers try to find out if there's cash to be made from FOSS: http://www.linexlegal.com/content.php?content_id=111661 | Sep 22 21:06 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] how programming interviews actually go http://bit.ly/WaiCH | Sep 22 21:06 | |
MinceR | DaemonFC: if there was only one space agency, where would the motivation from competition come? | Sep 22 21:06 |
MinceR | s/.$/from?/ | Sep 22 21:07 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, That's overblown | Sep 22 21:07 |
MinceR | strange, i thought you believed in capitalism :> | Sep 22 21:07 |
DaemonFC | the only competition between nations in space programs seems to be who can run out of money first | Sep 22 21:08 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, In many cases, yes | Sep 22 21:08 |
MinceR | not really | Sep 22 21:08 |
MinceR | there were goals already | Sep 22 21:08 |
MinceR | getting to orbit first, getting a living human to space and back first, getting to the moon first | Sep 22 21:08 |
DaemonFC | in some cases, more can be done through cooperation | Sep 22 21:09 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, That was when the budget was there | Sep 22 21:09 |
DaemonFC | now that we've gone to the moon, the "What's next?" part always comes with a trillion dollar price tag | Sep 22 21:10 |
schestowitz | And money was tied to gold | Sep 22 21:10 |
DaemonFC | and no politician will pay that | Sep 22 21:10 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, The money was not tied to gold in 1969 | Sep 22 21:10 |
DaemonFC | it hasn't been since 1913 | Sep 22 21:10 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, I don't think the money necessarily has to be tied to gold or silver, but letting banks run amok and print as much as they want isn't working either | Sep 22 21:11 |
DaemonFC | so it needs to be tied to something | Sep 22 21:11 |
schestowitz | 1970s | Sep 22 21:11 |
DaemonFC | nope | Sep 22 21:11 |
schestowitz | Source? | Sep 22 21:11 |
DaemonFC | federal reserve notes have always been promissory notes, schestowitz | Sep 22 21:11 |
schestowitz | 1913 is around the time they Federal Reserve got snuck in, no? | Sep 22 21:12 |
DaemonFC | yes | Sep 22 21:12 |
schestowitz | In a very sneaky way, too | Sep 22 21:12 |
DaemonFC | yes | Sep 22 21:12 |
DaemonFC | if they had brought it to a vote beforethe entire senate it would have been shot down in flames | Sep 22 21:12 |
DaemonFC | without even so much as an hour of debate | Sep 22 21:12 |
schestowitz | Was Greenspan its chairman in 1913? He's like a dinosaur | Sep 22 21:12 |
DaemonFC | very sneaky indeed | Sep 22 21:12 |
DaemonFC | probably | Sep 22 21:12 |
DaemonFC | that "Audit the Fed" bill is about the only chance we have to demand some accountability | Sep 22 21:13 |
DaemonFC | but if they get audited, the dollar will crash | Sep 22 21:13 |
schestowitz | Boo hoo | Sep 22 21:14 |
schestowitz | Same thing was said about public looting (aka bailout) | Sep 22 21:14 |
DaemonFC | the perceived value of a dollar is there because nobody knows the kind of bankroom deals that result in it being created from thin air | Sep 22 21:14 |
schestowitz | Diplomats were almost black mailed to approve | Sep 22 21:14 |
DaemonFC | well, the Euro is not much better | Sep 22 21:14 |
schestowitz | It's like saying to a cancer patient he should never go chemo cause s/he might lose hair | Sep 22 21:15 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, I didn't say it shouldn't be done | Sep 22 21:15 |
DaemonFC | sometimes the only way to fix something is to tear it down and start from scratch | Sep 22 21:15 |
DaemonFC | nobody wants to go through the pain of starting over so they let the fed run amok | Sep 22 21:15 |
schestowitz | Until they pass away | Sep 22 21:16 |
schestowitz | "The grandkids will deal with" | Sep 22 21:16 |
schestowitz | This one's new...... http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS79433+21-Sep-2009+PRN20090921 | Sep 22 21:17 |
DaemonFC | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131169&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL092209&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL092209-_-VideoCards-_-LC5A-_-14131169 | Sep 22 21:18 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, manufacturer agreeing to support Linux | Sep 22 21:18 |
DaemonFC | PowerColor | Sep 22 21:18 |
DaemonFC | look on the first review | Sep 22 21:18 |
schestowitz | tessier: http://english.vietnamnet.vn/ITTelecom/2009/09/869729/ | Sep 22 21:18 |
DaemonFC | I wonder if that would be a suitable replacement for a Geforce 9500 GT | Sep 22 21:19 |
schestowitz | "Doesn't fully work with Linux" | Sep 22 21:19 |
DaemonFC | it should | Sep 22 21:20 |
DaemonFC | the manufacturer's response even says it should | Sep 22 21:20 |
DaemonFC | hmmmm | Sep 22 21:21 |
MinceR | yes, ati should write drivers that don't suck | Sep 22 21:21 |
MinceR | but they don't | Sep 22 21:21 |
DaemonFC | not a suitable Geforce 9500 GT replacement | Sep 22 21:21 |
DaemonFC | http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/01/tested-sub-100/ | Sep 22 21:21 |
DaemonFC | "The 3450 fared worse, but considering its $50 price tag, it’s hard to complain. It managed 14 fps on average in Oblivion at the ultra high settings," | Sep 22 21:21 |
DaemonFC | I get at least 25-30 with the Geforce 9500 GT | Sep 22 21:21 |
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tessier | schestowitz: Saw it already. Very cool. I think my friend Kevin Miller was instrumental in making that happen. And myself, very indirectly, from having helped put together and present at the first LUG meeting there a few years ago. | Sep 22 21:24 |
schestowitz | Coo. | Sep 22 21:25 |
schestowitz | */cool | Sep 22 21:25 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: transistors wasted on DirectX | Sep 22 21:26 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, There's no reason a modern card can't support both | Sep 22 21:27 |
schestowitz | Waste of effort | Sep 22 21:29 |
schestowitz | Microsoft deviated on purpose and stomped on programmers in the process | Sep 22 21:29 |
DaemonFC | OpenGL doesn't perform well | Sep 22 21:29 |
DaemonFC | well, it's very bloated anyway | Sep 22 21:29 |
DaemonFC | but a card shouldn't have to choose between them | Sep 22 21:30 |
DaemonFC | SGI is gone and OpenGL is lagging because of a bureaucracy of various industry groups | Sep 22 21:31 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, As of August 3, 2009, OpenGL 3.2 finally supports shader model that's as good as DirectX 10 had in 2006 | Sep 22 21:35 |
DaemonFC | so I'd estimate that OpenGL is lagging DirectX by about 3 years at this point | Sep 22 21:36 |
DaemonFC | And a lot of nice things that OpenGL does have were developed by companies like Apple | Sep 22 21:37 |
DaemonFC | including OpenCL | Sep 22 21:37 |
DaemonFC | DirectX already has a rival to OpenCL in DirectX Compute | Sep 22 21:39 |
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MinceR | OpenGL needs to survive m$ | Sep 22 21:41 |
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MinceR | because there isn't going to be anything after them otherwise | Sep 22 21:41 |
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DaemonFC | OpenGL really needs to get it together | Sep 22 21:42 |
trmanco | opengl is equal do directx | Sep 22 21:43 |
trmanco | or even better | Sep 22 21:43 |
DaemonFC | it's way behind in many ways | Sep 22 21:43 |
DaemonFC | equal in some | Sep 22 21:43 |
trmanco | there was a image comparing them | Sep 22 21:43 |
DaemonFC | but that's just recent and DirectX 11 alreayd springs ahead of OpenGL 3.2 | Sep 22 21:43 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Horror story from the Cold War: 1. There was an actual Doomsday Device. 2. It's STILL DEPLOYED. http://is.gd/3zD9w | Sep 22 21:45 | |
schestowitz | CBS again (FOSS FUD): http://news.zdnet.co.uk/itmanagement/0,1000000308,39760362,00.htm | Sep 22 21:46 |
schestowitz | BIND has worked fine | Sep 22 21:46 |
schestowitz | But they have to make up imaginary issues | Sep 22 21:46 |
schestowitz | OpenGL is very widely used | Sep 22 21:47 |
schestowitz | It's not going awau | Sep 22 21:47 |
schestowitz | The animated films are OpenGL | Sep 22 21:47 |
schestowitz | Sony, Nintendo, etc. | Sep 22 21:47 |
schestowitz | And it's x-platform | Sep 22 21:47 |
schestowitz | DirectX will die when Microsoft shrinks to the point of not having people to maintain it | Sep 22 21:48 |
schestowitz | Microsoft press covers Microsoft | Sep 22 21:50 |
schestowitz | http://www.xconomy.com/san-diego/2009/09/22/san-diego%E2%80%99s-mindtouch-uses-open-source-to-develop-software-and-strategy/ | Sep 22 21:50 |
trmanco | schestowitz: twitfolk support identica | Sep 22 21:50 |
schestowitz | Yes, I don't know how though | Sep 22 21:50 |
schestowitz | I haven't looked into it | Sep 22 21:50 |
trmanco | ah ok | Sep 22 21:51 |
_goblin | LOL......"Microsoft: Windows Live and Mobile Services unprofitable" ....Really? never would have thought.... | Sep 22 21:51 |
schestowitz | Haha | Sep 22 21:52 |
schestowitz | Of course | Sep 22 21:52 |
schestowitz | For ages | Sep 22 21:52 |
schestowitz | It's imprinted into their tombstone | Sep 22 21:53 |
schestowitz | Without Office, Microsoft would be bankrupt... long ago | Sep 22 21:53 |
_goblin | http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/09/razorfish-windows-live-and-mobile-unprofitable-in-fy09.ars?utm_source=microblogging&utm_medium=arstch&utm_term=One%20Microsoft%20Way&utm_campaign=microblogging | Sep 22 21:53 |
_goblin | sorry....I should have tinyurl'd it. | Sep 22 21:53 |
trmanco | heh | Sep 22 21:54 |
schestowitz | http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/39744 "Disclaimer: This is not a rant against any particular desktop, although I do prefer KDE over GNOME. Its simply offering users what they seem to want." | Sep 22 21:54 |
trmanco | that strings after ? are junk | Sep 22 21:54 |
_goblin | KDE over Gnome?.....nah.......KDE over XFCE? hell no! | Sep 22 21:56 |
_goblin | I really want to like KDE....never have.... | Sep 22 21:57 |
cubezzz | I liked older KDE | Sep 22 21:57 |
cubezzz | newer KDE 4+ seems a bit slow | Sep 22 21:58 |
trmanco | things are getting faster | Sep 22 21:58 |
schestowitz | For me it's the opposite | Sep 22 21:59 |
trmanco | I don't know how the last kde was | Sep 22 21:59 |
trmanco | but I like kde 4 as is | Sep 22 21:59 |
schestowitz | Got faster since Linux 2.6.27 and KDE 3.5 | Sep 22 21:59 |
trmanco | maybe the kernel | Sep 22 21:59 |
trmanco | it got that fix for heavy load | Sep 22 21:59 |
schestowitz | Hess is like a troll now, I'll ignore him..... http://www.daniweb.com/news/story224861.html | Sep 22 21:59 |
cubezzz | schestowitz, I'm still on 3.4.2 :) | Sep 22 22:00 |
schestowitz | 4.4 is coming soon. | Sep 22 22:00 |
schestowitz | Maybe December I'd guess | Sep 22 22:00 |
schestowitz | Another MAAAAAAAAAAAAAJOR troll: http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=5521 | Sep 22 22:01 |
schestowitz | Adrian Trollston | Sep 22 22:01 |
schestowitz | The holy tech flame wars http://royal.pingdom.com/2009/09/22/the-holy-tech-flame-wars/ | Sep 22 22:02 |
schestowitz | Win vs Lin | Sep 22 22:02 |
trmanco | I would like a kde 4.3.2 soon | Sep 22 22:03 |
trmanco | knode has some bugs | Sep 22 22:03 |
cubezzz | well everything's getting more bloated | Sep 22 22:03 |
trmanco | we can't live on text for ever | Sep 22 22:03 |
cubezzz | unless you use older software and maintain it yourself | Sep 22 22:04 |
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cubezzz | my favourite example: Amiga 500 with 512K of ram | Sep 22 22:04 |
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tessier | My coworkers Windows box just got a virus...AGAIN. | Sep 22 22:06 |
trmanco | lol | Sep 22 22:06 |
trmanco | format c:\? | Sep 22 22:06 |
tessier | He just reinstalled it a couple of days ago. I'm telling him, use Linux... | Sep 22 22:06 |
cubezzz | if you look at even 2.4 there's a lot of stuff you could leave out | Sep 22 22:06 |
cubezzz | I'm using embedix for streaming internet radio, it's pretty lean and mean | Sep 22 22:07 |
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schestowitz | http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/09/linux_and_the_b.html;jsessionid=ZSQJUUDUQNQP3QE1GHPSKH4ATMY32JVN | Sep 22 22:11 |
schestowitz | Hey, wallclimber | Sep 22 22:11 |
schestowitz | trmanco: knode is OK | Sep 22 22:12 |
schestowitz | It takes up more RAM than before if you open vast NGs | Sep 22 22:12 |
trmanco | I have some ignoring thread problems | Sep 22 22:12 |
schestowitz | The rest can be worked around | Sep 22 22:12 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: I hope you were not disappointed with my poor joke earlier. Text does not convey humour or /sarcasm too well | Sep 22 22:13 |
schestowitz | tessier: is it a lot of work to install? | Sep 22 22:13 |
schestowitz | I remember trying to install Win2000 on a laptop when it came out | Sep 22 22:13 |
schestowitz | It was DISASTROUS | Sep 22 22:13 |
schestowitz | I had to get back to Win98 | Sep 22 22:14 |
schestowitz | WIn2000 didn't detect the hardware and drivers on the Net were useless. | Sep 22 22:14 |
cubezzz | a lot of stuff stopped working in win2K | Sep 22 22:14 |
schestowitz | Windows - when you have too much spare time to mess around, Anyway, that's the newest version of WIndows I ever tried installing | Sep 22 22:14 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, Yeah, that was a problem | Sep 22 22:16 |
DaemonFC | was being the key word | Sep 22 22:16 |
DaemonFC | it angered me, having to have a driver disc separately | Sep 22 22:17 |
wallclimber | Hi! (I'm on the phone) :) | Sep 22 22:17 |
DaemonFC | that bit got better with Vista, since it recognizes, at least, most network devices | Sep 22 22:17 |
DaemonFC | Windows 7 doesn't make me download any drivers, it even recognizes my TV tuner | Sep 22 22:17 |
amarsh04 | schestowitz, I presume you mean W98SE, I had to help a friend install W98 something on a laptop - imposible with the original, easy with W98SE | Sep 22 22:17 |
DaemonFC | 98 SE was just a collection of updates | Sep 22 22:18 |
DaemonFC | not even amounting to a service pack | Sep 22 22:18 |
DaemonFC | it was really just meant for people on dial up that didn't feel like downloading the 100 or so updates by themselves | Sep 22 22:19 |
amarsh04 | try finding drivers for W95OSR2 these days... I updated by 1998 era machine which has W95OSR2 on the original scsi drive with a realtek 8139 and radeon 9200se... took ages to find drivers that worked for W95 with the hardware | Sep 22 22:19 |
cubezzz | you guys are lucky, I have one customer who wants win95 _support_ | Sep 22 22:20 |
wallclimber | Roy, no problem, I just got busy and had to get to work. | Sep 22 22:20 |
amarsh04 | I've had too much experience with machines that couldn't get any level of stability with w98 original plus updates but ran fine with w98se | Sep 22 22:20 |
schestowitz | amarsh04: yes, SE | Sep 22 22:20 |
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schestowitz | I still have the CDs here | Sep 22 22:20 |
DaemonFC` | you still couldn't use Windows 98 on hard drives bigger than 150 GB, but there's an unofficial patch for that | Sep 22 22:20 |
schestowitz | It came with the laptop | Sep 22 22:20 |
amarsh04 | an app, cubezzz? | Sep 22 22:20 |
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schestowitz | WHen Compaq was still Compaq | Sep 22 22:21 |
*DaemonFC` is now known as DaemonFC | Sep 22 22:21 | |
cubezzz | amarsh04, he's got this big-ass scanner with a weird SCSI interface card | Sep 22 22:21 |
amarsh04 | ah.... I'm just happy that seamonkey still runs on w95 | Sep 22 22:21 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC's connection is still dodgy | Sep 22 22:21 |
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cubezzz | bad vibes maybe? :) | Sep 22 22:22 |
wallclimber | :) | Sep 22 22:22 |
amarsh04 | if it's adsl, it took me 11 visits from technicians replacing various segments of wiring before my connection stabilised, and that was with less than 2 metres of internal wiring | Sep 22 22:22 |
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cubezzz | damn, I'll never learn about win98 now | Sep 22 22:23 |
cubezzz | amarsh04, the best thing to do is make friends with the DSL techs | Sep 22 22:24 |
cubezzz | it took a while, but I figured out how to talk to Bell techs directly | Sep 22 22:25 |
amarsh04 | that too cubezzz, I still have the POTS service so if that goes bad I can call Telstra... people with "naked" adsl have problems because they have to call the isp every time, who then call the telco | Sep 22 22:25 |
trmanco | http://www.ibiblio.org/harris/500milemail.html | Sep 22 22:25 |
cubezzz | I wonder if internet over shortwave radio is possible | Sep 22 22:26 |
cubezzz | some sort of slow back-up internet | Sep 22 22:27 |
cubezzz | a lynx friendly ad free internet that costs nothing | Sep 22 22:28 |
amarsh04 | plenty of people use some kind of "line of sight" wireless | Sep 22 22:28 |
cubezzz | ok, I'm dreaming now :) | Sep 22 22:28 |
amarsh04 | cubezzz, short wave packet radio for amateur radio is very strictly non-commercial | Sep 22 22:29 |
*cubezzz nods | Sep 22 22:30 | |
trmanco | http://arstechnica.com/open-source/reviews/2009/09/ubuntu-910-alpha-6-released-boot-optimizations-arrive.ars | Sep 22 22:30 |
trmanco | 5 second boot time | Sep 22 22:31 |
cubezzz | interesting story trmanco | Sep 22 22:34 |
cubezzz | re: 500 mile email | Sep 22 22:34 |
wallclimber | took a break...just got back to my desk - apparently, while I was busy elsewhere, someone here painted my computer mouse with rubber cement...lol | Sep 22 22:34 |
trmanco | :) | Sep 22 22:34 |
wallclimber | this means war... | Sep 22 22:34 |
MinceR | 233322 < deso> Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger | Sep 22 22:34 |
*phIRCe has kicked MinceR from #boycottnovell (Watch you language!) | Sep 22 22:34 | |
trmanco | :| | Sep 22 22:35 |
*MinceR (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 22 22:35 | |
cubezzz | swearbot is back eh? :) | Sep 22 22:35 |
MinceR | phIRCe: fuсk you | Sep 22 22:35 |
trmanco | :O | Sep 22 22:35 |
wallclimber | my oh my! | Sep 22 22:35 |
trmanco | you found a work around | Sep 22 22:35 |
MinceR | told you this method was useless :> | Sep 22 22:36 |
MinceR | i know a couple workarounds | Sep 22 22:36 |
trmanco | better use regular expressions then | Sep 22 22:36 |
cubezzz | why was he kicked though? | Sep 22 22:36 |
trmanco | idi*t | Sep 22 22:36 |
MinceR | because some idiоt decided "idiоt" was a swear word | Sep 22 22:36 |
MinceR | :> | Sep 22 22:36 |
cubezzz | ah :) | Sep 22 22:36 |
trmanco | hey | Sep 22 22:37 |
trmanco | wtf happed to the bot | Sep 22 22:37 |
trmanco | happened | Sep 22 22:37 |
trmanco | idiot | Sep 22 22:37 |
*phIRCe has kicked trmanco from #boycottnovell (Watch you language!) | Sep 22 22:37 | |
MinceR | pwnt | Sep 22 22:37 |
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*MinceR points at trmanco and laughs | Sep 22 22:38 | |
trmanco | you son of a "shit" | Sep 22 22:38 |
*phIRCe has kicked trmanco from #boycottnovell (Watch you language!) | Sep 22 22:38 | |
*trmanco (n=trmanco@drwxr-xr-x.org) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 22 22:38 | |
trmanco | wtf :| | Sep 22 22:38 |
MinceR | no u | Sep 22 22:38 |
trmanco | MinceR: swear again | Sep 22 22:38 |
MinceR | fuсk | Sep 22 22:39 |
trmanco | MinceR: how do you do it? | Sep 22 22:39 |
MinceR | if i told you, you could prevent me from swearing this way :> | Sep 22 22:39 |
trmanco | well | Sep 22 22:39 |
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trmanco | fair enough | Sep 22 22:40 |
schestowitz | trmanco: bug? | Sep 22 22:40 |
trmanco | but still | Sep 22 22:40 |
trmanco | schestowitz: no | Sep 22 22:40 |
trmanco | MinceR: knows hist way around it | Sep 22 22:40 |
schestowitz | Does he use charsets? | Sep 22 22:40 |
wallclimber | now look what you did, you scared Daemon away :) | Sep 22 22:40 |
MinceR | :) | Sep 22 22:40 |
trmanco | this shit works, see | Sep 22 22:40 |
*phIRCe has kicked trmanco from #boycottnovell (Watch you language!) | Sep 22 22:40 | |
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schestowitz | wallclimber: he has electrodes on him | Sep 22 22:40 |
wallclimber | lol | Sep 22 22:40 |
trmanco | just not with MinceR | Sep 22 22:40 |
schestowitz | He gets zapped for saying s*it | Sep 22 22:40 |
trmanco | I missed something | Sep 22 22:40 |
trmanco | maybe something minor | Sep 22 22:41 |
trmanco | MinceR: won't share | Sep 22 22:41 |
trmanco | :| | Sep 22 22:41 |
wallclimber | well, i have to go find a clean mouse and fire the staff...have fun :) | Sep 22 22:41 |
*wallclimber has quit ("wallclimber wanders off...") | Sep 22 22:41 | |
_goblin | merde | Sep 22 22:43 |
MinceR | so your badword kick caused 4 swear words to be said in the last 10 minutes | Sep 22 22:43 |
MinceR | oh the irony | Sep 22 22:44 |
_goblin | phrice aint that good then... | Sep 22 22:44 |
MinceR | the whole approach is flawed | Sep 22 22:44 |
MinceR | having a program moderate a discussion without being able to understand it | Sep 22 22:44 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why #GNU #Linux is Great http://bit.ly/tCNi8 #oped | Sep 22 22:44 | |
_goblin | not that I approve of swear words though..... | Sep 22 22:44 |
trmanco | I just got bored | Sep 22 22:45 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Setting Expectations for #Desktop #GNU #Linux Appropriately http://bit.ly/d0JNT | Sep 22 22:46 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #XServer 1.7 Hits RC2 http://bit.ly/yLXBa | Sep 22 22:53 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Kernel News from #LinuxCon http://bit.ly/4lT4A9 http://bit.ly/19Ahyd http://bit.ly/4BOpwd | Sep 22 22:54 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] K Desktop Environment 4.4 Shows New Features http://bit.ly/9hbmn #kde | Sep 22 22:57 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat Surges Ahead of Expected Great Results http://bit.ly/12F55U | Sep 22 22:59 | |
*gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) has left #boycottnovell | Sep 22 23:10 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Previews of #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux #KarmicKoala and #LucidLynx http://bit.ly/4vk9w7 http://bit.ly/164yQr | Sep 22 23:11 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu #gnu #linux Derivative #UltimateEdition Gamers 2.3 is Released http://bit.ly/102urE | Sep 22 23:15 | |
_goblin | ok...you've sold it to me....time to have a look at gamers 2.3....... | Sep 22 23:20 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Nokia 's Phones Liberated with #Linux http://bit.ly/4klNj1 | Sep 22 23:21 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More #Compact Sub-notebooks Adopt #Linux http://bit.ly/4ka8Rw | Sep 22 23:24 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] IIM #Bangalore to Use #GNU #Linux to Serve #Education http://bit.ly/3P60fn | Sep 22 23:26 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Norwegian IT Giant Adopts #FreeSoftware Route http://bit.ly/6TJ0y | Sep 22 23:28 | |
schestowitz | _goblin: nice. | Sep 22 23:29 |
_goblin | not that I'm a gamer....I did enjoy Alien Arena though a while back... | Sep 22 23:30 |
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DaemonFC | I managed to build a Win64 version of VLC Player | Sep 22 23:33 |
DaemonFC | it's a little buggy, but it works well enough for what I need it for | Sep 22 23:34 |
trmanco | !quit phIRCe | Sep 22 23:34 |
*phIRCe has quit ("Exiting!") | Sep 22 23:34 | |
trmanco | time to go | Sep 22 23:34 |
trmanco | gn | Sep 22 23:34 |
DaemonFC | MingW64 is still inappropriate which is why I think the VLC people aren't providing a 64-bit binary | Sep 22 23:35 |
DaemonFC | it does compile with MSVC with some coercing | Sep 22 23:35 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mozilla Celebrates Day for the Web, #Vietnam Celebrates #SoftwareFreedomDay http://english.vietnamnet.vn/ITTelecom/2009/09/869729/ htt ... | Sep 22 23:35 | |
DaemonFC | I don't know why everyone is bitching and moaning and dragging their feet over Win64 | Sep 22 23:36 |
DaemonFC | it's pretty much identical to Win32 | Sep 22 23:36 |
DaemonFC | you'd think that at the very least, open source stuff would be ported, but it's not | Sep 22 23:37 |
trmanco | if it were identical, nobody would be moaning about it | Sep 22 23:37 |
DaemonFC | closed source stuff is actually being ported over faster | Sep 22 23:37 |
DaemonFC | trmanco, the API is identical | Sep 22 23:37 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Cyberoam Makes #FreeSoftware for Logging and Reporting http://bit.ly/fzu2g | Sep 22 23:37 | |
DaemonFC | minor changes here and there but there is no wildly different features | Sep 22 23:38 |
DaemonFC | and everything in Win32 has a Win64 equivalent | Sep 22 23:38 |
Balrog_ | I'm waiting for Wine that runs on 64-bit Linux | Sep 22 23:42 |
Balrog_ | as a 64-bit process | Sep 22 23:42 |
*Xarver (n=kenny@cpe-76-173-101-172.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 22 23:43 | |
DaemonFC | Wine has no Win64 support | Sep 22 23:44 |
Balrog_ | DaemonFC: there is Wine64 | Sep 22 23:44 |
DaemonFC | that hasn't been an issue up til now | Sep 22 23:44 |
Balrog_ | http://wiki.winehq.org/Wine64 | Sep 22 23:45 |
Balrog_ | it's buggy | Sep 22 23:45 |
DaemonFC | it'll hurt them in the next few years if they don't have it though | Sep 22 23:45 |
Balrog_ | but you can't run Wine32 in 64-bit | Sep 22 23:45 |
DaemonFC | well, that part isn't an issue | Sep 22 23:46 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Standards Pushed Into #InternetExplorer by #Google http://bit.ly/Manbm | Sep 22 23:46 | |
DaemonFC | 32-bit x86 software runs fine on X86-64 | Sep 22 23:47 |
DaemonFC | there's certain kinds of software that run a bit faster as native x86-64 | Sep 22 23:47 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #LilyAllen Under Pressure for Reciting #IntellectualMonopolies #Myths http://techdirt.com/articles/20090922/0310156273.shtml #itsnotfair | Sep 22 23:48 | |
DaemonFC | compiling Wine as x86-64 would break all the Windows applications you wanted to run in it | Sep 22 23:49 |
Balrog_ | DaemonFC: not if it was fixed to work properly | Sep 22 23:50 |
Balrog_ | I'm told they're working on it | Sep 22 23:50 |
DaemonFC | you'll end up with two versions of Wine on your system when x86-64 support is added properly | Sep 22 23:50 |
Balrog_ | at first | Sep 22 23:50 |
Balrog_ | afterwards they'll be working on making | Sep 22 23:50 |
Balrog_ | Wine x86_64 run 32-bit apps | Sep 22 23:50 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Patents Turn to Harvesting Fodder http://techdirt.com/articles/20090921/0131126257.shtml #fail #uspto *unnovation | Sep 22 23:50 | |
DaemonFC | I think schestowitz was waffling on about .Net the other day as an argument for why Wine won't always cut it | Sep 22 23:51 |
DaemonFC | I think just by stating that he's giving .Net too much credit | Sep 22 23:51 |
DaemonFC | there's actually more useful .Net applications on Linux than there are on Windows | Sep 22 23:52 |
DaemonFC | .Net is not popular on Windows, and I'd have to struggle to name more than a couple things that anyone has any reason to care about that use it | Sep 22 23:52 |
Balrog_ | Mono will never support regular Windows applications | Sep 22 23:52 |
DaemonFC | true | Sep 22 23:53 |
DaemonFC | I'm just saying that the average Linux user comes into contact with more Mono applications than the average Windows user comes into contact with .Net applications | Sep 22 23:53 |
DaemonFC | they're really just few and far between and there's only a couple cool things that use it | Sep 22 23:53 |
DaemonFC | the most prominent applications would probably be Paint .Net and CDBurnerXP | Sep 22 23:54 |
DaemonFC | Gimp and Imgburn will work better, faster, etc. though | Sep 22 23:54 |
DaemonFC | .Net is running into the same problems that Java gives you | Sep 22 23:55 |
DaemonFC | really bloated really massive really memory hogging crapplications | Sep 22 23:55 |
DaemonFC | that are too slow to be anything but a novelty | Sep 22 23:55 |
DaemonFC | 99% of the time, you're just better off using C or C++ | Sep 22 23:55 |
DaemonFC | and the trickle of .Net applications proves that much | Sep 22 23:56 |
DaemonFC | I would say it's Windows Media all over again, but I'm sure even that is more widespread than .Net | Sep 22 23:56 |
DaemonFC | the only standards-subverting crap that anyone should be worried about right now is OOXML | Sep 22 23:57 |
DaemonFC | if that catches on, it's game over | Sep 22 23:57 |
DaemonFC | it's 100 times worse than .Net | Sep 22 23:57 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Possible SCO-Microsoft-Psystar Connections Seen Again http://bit.ly/3Un60x | Sep 22 23:58 | |
DaemonFC | OOXML is gaining ground because anyone who clicks Save in MS Office is using OOXML unless they get the ODF plug in from Sun | Sep 22 23:58 |
DaemonFC | and I doubt enough people have enough of a clue to do that | Sep 22 23:59 |
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