| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Steve Ballmer, played by Jackie Coogan http://is.gd/43sAd | Oct 08 00:01 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Steve Ballmer: the future belongs to Microsoft - Times Online .::. Size~: 120.86 KB | Oct 08 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| trmanco | lol | Oct 08 00:02 |
| trmanco | no the past does... | Oct 08 00:02 |
| P|scean | "This year, however, Mr Ballmer has had less to shout about. In July, Microsoft’s quarterly results showed its first year-on-year drop in revenue and profit for 23 years, hit by falling PC sales and the rise of cheap netbooks running rival operating systems such as the open-source Linux, which Mr Ballmer has in the past described as “a cancer”." | Oct 08 00:09 |
| P|scean | heh, from that article | Oct 08 00:10 |
| _goblin | I don't think anyone listens to Ballmer, he described Google as a "house of cards".....and what about Apple products.....I think with Ballmer, the rule is, whatever he says, the exact opposite is true. | Oct 08 00:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | _goblin: well | Oct 08 00:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | the guy lives in his own little world | Oct 08 00:22 |
| P|scean | i dont know.. from his point of view compairing linux to cancar is pretty accurate :P | Oct 08 00:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | P|scean: exactly | Oct 08 00:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | to a cancer, the cure is a cancer | Oct 08 00:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | its something that gets inside of it and kills it | Oct 08 00:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | slowly | Oct 08 00:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | and painfully | Oct 08 00:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | its fun to be the bad guy | Oct 08 00:25 |
| *Balrog (n=Balrog@32.166.66.53) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 00:29 | |
| *Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@93.102.74.244.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 00:33 | |
| *ThistleWeb (n=gordon@unaffiliated/thistleweb) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 00:33 | |
| trmanco | !quit phIRCe | Oct 08 00:37 |
| *phIRCe has quit ("Exiting! phIRCe - I told you so!(http://bitbucket.org/trmanco/phirce/)") | Oct 08 00:37 | |
| trmanco | gn | Oct 08 00:37 |
| *_goblin has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Oct 08 00:38 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RichardStallman Defended in Argument with #Novell VP http://ping.fm/vCTyf | Oct 08 00:54 | |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Oct 08 01:00 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: TomTom launches cut-price Darwin Signature satnav http://notnews.today.com/?p=683 | Oct 08 01:01 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @tajasel So there's this guy called @simonowens and he calls himself a journalist, but he just steals others' stuff: http://is.gd/43wXM | Oct 08 01:11 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Over 2,000 #Microsoft Employees Lose 75% of Stock Options Value http://bit.ly/2pdxFC | Oct 08 01:15 | |
| *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@118.210.98.83) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 01:23 | |
| cubezzz | well.. if anything's a "cancer" it's Microsoft itself | Oct 08 01:28 |
| cubezzz | or call them the Borg | Oct 08 01:28 |
| cubezzz | Slashdot got that right | Oct 08 01:28 |
| cubezzz | absorbing technology from other companies then driving them out of business | Oct 08 01:29 |
| cubezzz | oh and let's see... | Oct 08 01:30 |
| cubezzz | dumpster diving to get the original basic source code | Oct 08 01:30 |
| cubezzz | so a scavenger in their origins | Oct 08 01:31 |
| *Balrog has quit () | Oct 08 01:31 | |
| P|scean | alot of thoes companies would go out of business anyway if everything was open | Oct 08 01:36 |
| cubezzz | probably true | Oct 08 01:36 |
| cubezzz | of course everything isn't open | Oct 08 01:37 |
| *P|scean sighs | Oct 08 01:38 | |
| P|scean | yeah | Oct 08 01:38 |
| cubezzz | things are changing though | Oct 08 01:38 |
| cubezzz | if I wanted to put SCO Unix System V on my system in 1989 with compiler utilities I would have had to drop about $1000 | Oct 08 01:39 |
| cubezzz | now I can download tons of different Linux or BSD distros for free | Oct 08 01:39 |
| cubezzz | with source code | Oct 08 01:40 |
| *regr (i=5d6171a1@gateway/web/freenode/x-rhlqjdphjtadrvbt) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 01:40 | |
| cubezzz | that is huge progress | Oct 08 01:40 |
| P|scean | this is true | Oct 08 01:41 |
| *regr has quit (Client Quit) | Oct 08 01:45 | |
| amarsh04 | cubezzz it was more than that back then... I even paid AUD$850 for the compiler for UnixWare 1.0.X in 1993 | Oct 08 01:53 |
| *schestowitz gives channel operator status to cubezzz | Oct 08 01:59 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] No Point to Microsoft’s New Datacentres, #Microsoft -dominated #VMware Comes to Redmond’s Back Garden http://ping.fm/2aAhe | Oct 08 02:07 | |
| schestowitz | gn | Oct 08 02:07 |
| *schestowitz gives channel operator status to amarsh04 | Oct 08 02:07 | |
| cubezzz | wow, just for the compiler? | Oct 08 02:08 |
| cubezzz | my first Linux was around 1994, but I didn't stick with it | Oct 08 02:14 |
| cubezzz | took a while for the whole *nix thing to grow on me | Oct 08 02:15 |
| cubezzz | it's one thing to use it at work and another thing to use it all the time, e.g. work and home both | Oct 08 02:16 |
| cubezzz | the positive vibe I feel with Linux isn't anything like the vibe I got from using windows | Oct 08 02:17 |
| cubezzz | basically on doze I'd stare at stuff and go... it's not working | Oct 08 02:18 |
| cubezzz | under dos and Unix I'd even buy books on writing device drivers | Oct 08 02:20 |
| cubezzz | but even so I couldn't look at the source code for the dos or windows drivers (with a very few exceptions) | Oct 08 02:20 |
| *sebsebseb has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Oct 08 02:52 | |
| amarsh04 | SCO Unix products in the late 1980's early 1990's had lots of add-on components that one had to pay for (so did OS/2 before Warp) | Oct 08 03:02 |
| *amarsh04 remembers Linus Torvalds and Dennis Ritchie listening to each other's talks at AUUG '94 in Melbourne | Oct 08 03:05 | |
| cubezzz | hmmm | Oct 08 03:08 |
| *ThistleWeb has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Oct 08 03:10 | |
| amarsh04 | report on iinet case on the radio at the moment | Oct 08 03:11 |
| cubezzz | is that on the net amarsh04? | Oct 08 03:11 |
| amarsh04 | I'm on half hour delay, will check but transcripts should appear within 24 hours | Oct 08 03:11 |
| amarsh04 | don't think it's streaming at the moment, but segment has finished... there seemed to be some confusion calling bittorrent a company | Oct 08 03:14 |
| amarsh04 | check back on http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/ tomorrow .au time | Oct 08 03:15 |
| cubezzz | ok | Oct 08 03:15 |
| amarsh04 | more links at http://whirlpool.net.au | Oct 08 03:16 |
| cubezzz | ah, I see, there's more than one "ABC" | Oct 08 03:23 |
| amarsh04 | Australian Broadcasting Corporation has large numbers of transcripts on-line | Oct 08 03:24 |
| cubezzz | I'm not up on iinet actually | Oct 08 03:25 |
| cubezzz | ISP... | Oct 08 03:25 |
| cubezzz | oh now I see :) | Oct 08 03:26 |
| cubezzz | clued in now | Oct 08 03:26 |
| amarsh04 | so you're in Toronto? | Oct 08 03:26 |
| cubezzz | close to Toronto | Oct 08 03:26 |
| cubezzz | Oshawa, about 50 miles away | Oct 08 03:26 |
| amarsh04 | I'm in Adelaide metro area, iinet is Perth based | Oct 08 03:27 |
| cubezzz | oops, 37.57 miles actually | Oct 08 03:28 |
| *cubezzz nods | Oct 08 03:28 | |
| cubezzz | we have mostly a duopoly here for ISPs | Oct 08 03:30 |
| cubezzz | there's Rogers and Bell | Oct 08 03:30 |
| cubezzz | then I suppose if you are willing to spent more money you could get Satellite Internet | Oct 08 03:31 |
| cubezzz | there's 3rd party, which use Bell's equipment at least partially | Oct 08 03:31 |
| amarsh04 | people get satellite internet if they are out of dsl or wireless range, I'm getting 13937 kbit/s downstream on adsl2+ | Oct 08 03:32 |
| cubezzz | neither is that great | Oct 08 03:32 |
| amarsh04 | 4 different companies (maybe more) have dslams in my local exchange, but only about 2 back-haul providers from the exchange | Oct 08 03:33 |
| cubezzz | I don't think I ever see faster than 500K per second, maybe 550K at most | Oct 08 03:33 |
| cubezzz | I'm not filtered at all which is nice | Oct 08 03:34 |
| cubezzz | can you run a web server off your dsl? | Oct 08 03:35 |
| amarsh04 | 20 GB download per month limit, not counting all the file mirrors and ABC content (Debian, Sourceforge, streaming audio, video on demand) | Oct 08 03:36 |
| amarsh04 | yes, and uploads are not counted, but I didn't pay extra for static IP address | Oct 08 03:36 |
| cubezzz | I don't think I have very much upload traffic anyway | Oct 08 03:37 |
| amarsh04 | we get about 50 or 100 Meg personal web space on www.users.on.net which is good for sharing stuff with others | Oct 08 03:38 |
| cubezzz | /var/www is about 1.3 gigs for me | Oct 08 03:39 |
| cubezzz | nothing too big | Oct 08 03:39 |
| cubezzz | the only problem is the AC Adapters keep going defective | Oct 08 03:41 |
| cubezzz | they're really crap | Oct 08 03:42 |
| cubezzz | so the ac adapter on my router and dsl modem, they've been replaced 4 times now | Oct 08 03:42 |
| amarsh04 | just rang the isp, voip handset is ready for pickup | Oct 08 03:43 |
| amarsh04 | my ac adaptors have been ok, but the router vendor has not made available the source of the GPL code in the router | Oct 08 03:47 |
| cubezzz | which vendor? | Oct 08 03:50 |
| *Xarver has quit ("Leaving.") | Oct 08 03:51 | |
| amarsh04 | open networks ( www.opennw.com ) | Oct 08 03:51 |
| amarsh04 | off to the isp, back later | Oct 08 03:52 |
| *Slated (n=[H]omer@amsterdam.perfect-privacy.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 04:24 | |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to Slated | Oct 08 04:24 | |
| *[H]omer has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Oct 08 04:26 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] http://tr.im/B39y | Oct 08 04:44 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] Old Joe #McCarthy is Visiting -- by bobby kunhu http://tr.im/B3cc #satire #Ghost #Maoist #Marxist McCarthy (via @fish_pond) | Oct 08 04:49 | |
| *fewa (n=fewa@unaffiliated/fewa) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 04:58 | |
| fewa | http://rethinkafghanistan.com/ | Oct 08 06:13 |
| *P|scean has quit ("KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: , sources date: 20090115, built on: 2009/03/07 00:45:02 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/") | Oct 08 06:31 | |
| *ziggyfish (n=brendan@123-243-163-103.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 06:41 | |
| cubezzz | cross compiling openssh to build new elinks | Oct 08 06:46 |
| *Omar871 (n=omar@94.249.15.139) has left #boycottnovell | Oct 08 07:29 | |
| *proteus has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Oct 08 07:30 | |
| fewa | I cant get any information on what happened to this: http://media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196520&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1326986&highlight= | Oct 08 07:34 |
| fewa | interesting "Because of an order from the United States International Trade Commission, BGA-packaged product lines and part numbers indicated here currently are not available from Freescale for import or sale in the United States prior to September 2010: i.MX515, MC13982 | Oct 08 07:34 |
| fewa | " | Oct 08 07:34 |
| fewa | Is that the EPA move? | Oct 08 07:35 |
| fewa | it should be available | Oct 08 07:35 |
| *jono has quit ("Later, Skater") | Oct 08 08:22 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OpenDocument Format (ODF) suffers more interferences and interruptions from #Microsoft and its followers http://ping.fm/3aGen | Oct 08 08:46 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Royal Mail loses Amazon contract as postal strikes loom - Thank you Amazon http://tinyurl.com/y88kwkn | Oct 08 08:49 | |
| *Tallken has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Oct 08 08:57 | |
| fewa | schestowitz, end-2-end call encryption: http://lwn.net/Articles/354827/#Comments | Oct 08 09:01 |
| fewa | GNU secure call http://www.gnutelephony.org/index.php/Secure_Call | Oct 08 09:02 |
| schestowitz | Yeah. | Oct 08 09:25 |
| schestowitz | I listened to a show with Spencer the other day. He's too humble. | Oct 08 09:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Wins #FreeSoftware -Hostile Deal in Europe, Its Front Group #ACT Pleased http://ping.fm/b3eF4 | Oct 08 09:26 | |
| schestowitz | And they have some real competition now | Oct 08 09:26 |
| fewa | ZRTP | Oct 08 09:26 |
| fewa | seems like a good protocol | Oct 08 09:26 |
| fewa | AES+DH+SAS "Each user hashes together their own public key with the other caller's public key; the result is a Short Authentication String (SAS) that can be exchanged and verified by the callers verbally. Once the setup is established, the media stream is encrypted using standard SRTP." | Oct 08 09:27 |
| fewa | show? | Oct 08 09:29 |
| fewa | spencer? | Oct 08 09:29 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] 10th year of hunger strike: Call for Action in Support of Irom sharmila http://tr.im/B4sy #AFSPA #Draconian-laws #india #manipur | Oct 08 09:47 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The #FFII and Red Hat's CEO Express Dissatisfaction with United States #Patent System http://ping.fm/VTSxa #swpat | Oct 08 09:53 | |
| schestowitz | fewa: Mark Spencer from Digium | Oct 08 09:53 |
| schestowitz | Turns out how created GAIM/Pidgin too | Oct 08 09:53 |
| schestowitz | And some other stuff other than Asterisk | Oct 08 09:53 |
| *Diablo-D3 has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Oct 08 09:55 | |
| fewa | gamers dont like geting fed with http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/10/sony-sued-over-ps3-update-that-supposedly-bricks-consoles.ars | Oct 08 09:57 |
| cubezzz | well, got the old elinks ported | Oct 08 09:59 |
| cubezzz | works better than lynx at least | Oct 08 09:59 |
| fewa | w3m ? | Oct 08 09:59 |
| schestowitz | heh. http://techdirt.com/articles/20091007/0107576437.shtml | Oct 08 10:01 |
| *Adus (n=joeh@nat/microsoft/x-ubfdpwzbxxxdrtsh) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 10:01 | |
| schestowitz | AP Wants To Charge For Scoops < http://techdirt.com/articles/20091007/1202596448.shtml > | Oct 08 10:03 |
| schestowitz | The press just doesn't know how to cope with its 'product' becoming a commodity | Oct 08 10:04 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @glynmoody EFF: It's My Browser, and I'll Auto-Click if I Want To— http://ur1.ca/d669 to co. that thinks its business model trumps rights | Oct 08 10:05 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-open/?p=4416 "Linux 13.75% 21.01% 20.57% ↑ 18.40%" | Oct 08 10:07 |
| Adus | http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/10/sony-sued-over-ps3-update-that-supposedly-bricks-consoles.ars | Oct 08 10:08 |
| schestowitz | Sutor hasn't bothered to make its talk available in free formats http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-open/?p=4449 | Oct 08 10:10 |
| schestowitz | Adus: your team did this many times | Oct 08 10:10 |
| Adus | I don't think we have ever bricked console with an update... | Oct 08 10:11 |
| schestowitz | More recent you also messed up Live. | Oct 08 10:11 |
| schestowitz | Typical: Xbox Live downtime leads to Xbox Live problems | Oct 08 10:11 |
| schestowitz | ,----[ Quot ] | Oct 08 10:11 |
| schestowitz | | After spending all of Tuesday offline, Xbox Live is back with a bang ... or | Oct 08 10:11 |
| schestowitz | | is that a whimper? Reports are coming in from all over the Internet of Live | Oct 08 10:11 |
| schestowitz | | Marketplace not working properly and games disappearing off the face of the | Oct 08 10:11 |
| schestowitz | | Earth. Oh Microsoft, will you ever win? | Oct 08 10:11 |
| schestowitz | `---- | Oct 08 10:11 |
| schestowitz | http://www.destructoid.com/typical-xbox-live-downtime-leads-to-xbox-live-problems-136604.phtml | Oct 08 10:11 |
| schestowitz | Xbox Live returns after being off all day yesterday, but now some things are | Oct 08 10:11 |
| schestowitz | broken | Oct 08 10:11 |
| schestowitz | ,----[ Quote ] | Oct 08 10:11 |
| schestowitz | | After Microsoft shut down Xbox Live for over twenty-four hours yesterday, | Oct 08 10:11 |
| schestowitz | | their online gaming service for the Xbox 360 is back online, but it's not | Oct 08 10:11 |
| schestowitz | | working correctly for many users. | Oct 08 10:11 |
| schestowitz | `---- | Oct 08 10:11 |
| Adus | Live is not my team :p | Oct 08 10:12 |
| schestowitz | http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/210877/xbox-live-returns-after-being-off-all-day-yesterday-but-now-some-things-are-broken/ | Oct 08 10:12 |
| schestowitz | Xbox Live having issues after maintenance | Oct 08 10:12 |
| schestowitz | ,----[ Quote ] | Oct 08 10:12 |
| schestowitz | | After yesterday's 24 hour maintenance session for Xbox Live, the service is | Oct 08 10:12 |
| schestowitz | | operational again but appears to have some problems. Certain games from the | Oct 08 10:12 |
| schestowitz | | marketplace have a purchase option, but not an option to download | Oct 08 10:12 |
| schestowitz | `---- | Oct 08 10:12 |
| schestowitz | http://www.examiner.com/x-7953-Oklahoma-City-Console-Game-Examiner~y2009m6d17-Xbox-Live-having-issures-after-maintenance | Oct 08 10:12 |
| schestowitz | Xbox Live still a little funky after those there updates | Oct 08 10:12 |
| schestowitz | ,----[ Quote ] | Oct 08 10:12 |
| schestowitz | | Hey there, amigo. Have you logged onto Xbox Live today? Don’t! Well, not | Oct 08 10:12 |
| schestowitz | | unless you’re looking forward to dealing with a few post-maintenance | Oct 08 10:12 |
| schestowitz | | glitches. | Oct 08 10:12 |
| schestowitz | `---- | Oct 08 10:12 |
| schestowitz | http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/06/17/xbox-live-still-a-little-funky-after-those-there-updates/ | Oct 08 10:12 |
| schestowitz | Adus: you also bricked consoles | Oct 08 10:12 |
| Adus | Not via updates. | Oct 08 10:12 |
| Adus | The whole rrod thin is not a software problem | Oct 08 10:12 |
| Adus | Anyway, was just linking an interesting article. The Xbox Live problems were in June, why would I link them now? :p | Oct 08 10:15 |
| cubezzz | I got internet working on the Z pretty good via usbnet | Oct 08 10:15 |
| cubezzz | but I can't seem to browse the my own server | Oct 08 10:15 |
| cubezzz | I can browse everything but that | Oct 08 10:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Warner @twxcorp infringes #copyright and prevents holder from sharing his own work http://ur1.ca/d66f ~"Labels biggest infringers, not fans" | Oct 08 10:16 | |
| schestowitz | http://bmighty.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/09/are_you_wonderi.html | Oct 08 10:16 |
| schestowitz | Adus: | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | Autoupdate killed my 360! | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | ,----[ Quote ] | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | | I was fine yesterday gaming with the VGA cable but after getting | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | | the autoupdate today, I get a black screen. Does Microsoft test | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | | these things? My connection to the TV didn't change yet its | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | | screwed. Thanks for nothing Microsoft. | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | `---- | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=489979 | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | Update brick your 360? Speak up | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | ,----[ Quote ] | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | | Since yesterday's update, there are numerous reports about 360s | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | | being bricked. Some people suspect that this is being done by | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | | Microsoft intentionally to stop modders and hackers. Xbox Scene | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | | thinks it has more to do with certain combinations of hardware | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | | and firmware. | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | `---- | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2006/11/01/update-brick-your-360-speak-up/ | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | Numerous Reports, November 30 Xbox 360 Update Is Bricking Consoles | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | ,----[ Quote ] | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | | Some consoles are being bricked by Thursday's dashboard update. | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | | Issues range from freezing, red ring of death and VGA adapterm | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | | alfunction. Microsoft isn't acknowledging the issue and billing | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | | $140 for repairs. | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | `---- | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | http://digg.com/gaming_news/Numerous_Reports_November_30_Xbox_360_Update_Is_Bricking_Consoles | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | Gamers Say Microsoft Understates Xbox Problems | Oct 08 10:17 |
| schestowitz | ,----[ Quote ] | Oct 08 10:18 |
| schestowitz | | An insider from Electronic Arts, Inc. is saying that the failure rate | Oct 08 10:18 |
| schestowitz | | of Microsoft's Xbox 360 gaming console is actually ten times higher than | Oct 08 10:18 |
| schestowitz | | what Microsoft spokespeople have admitted. | Oct 08 10:18 |
| schestowitz | | | Oct 08 10:18 |
| schestowitz | | Game Daily BIZ, a gaming industry publication, reported that the | Oct 08 10:18 |
| schestowitz | | anonymous source tallied that of the 300 consoles EA has received, | Oct 08 10:18 |
| schestowitz | | 30-50 percent of them have failed. | Oct 08 10:18 |
| Adus | schestowitz_log: No need to flood. | Oct 08 10:18 |
| Adus | Ah, excellent :) | Oct 08 10:18 |
| schestowitz | No flood | Oct 08 10:18 |
| schestowitz | I show you what you denied | Oct 08 10:18 |
| schestowitz | Xbox Gets a Longer Warranty | Oct 08 10:19 |
| schestowitz | ,----[ Quote ] | Oct 08 10:19 |
| schestowitz | | This autumn, Microsoft acknowledged that a glitch in the Xbox's online | Oct 08 10:19 |
| schestowitz | | update system damaged a small number of customers' consoles before the | Oct 08 10:19 |
| schestowitz | | problem was quickly fixed. At least one customer has sued over the | Oct 08 10:19 |
| schestowitz | | incident. | Oct 08 10:19 |
| schestowitz | `---- | Oct 08 10:19 |
| schestowitz | http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/061224/microsoft_xbox.html?.v=1 | Oct 08 10:19 |
| schestowitz | Class Action Lawsuit Filed Against MS For Bricked 360s | Oct 08 10:19 |
| schestowitz | http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/law/class-action-lawsuit-filed-against-ms-for-bricked-360s-220250.php | Oct 08 10:19 |
| schestowitz | Sometimes other companies cause this: | Oct 08 10:19 |
| schestowitz | RedOctane admits to problems with GH2 patch | Oct 08 10:20 |
| schestowitz | ,----[ Quote ] | Oct 08 10:20 |
| schestowitz | | While the patch was supposed to solve the problem of whammy | Oct 08 10:20 |
| schestowitz | | bar responsiveness on GH2 controllers, it also seemed to have | Oct 08 10:20 |
| schestowitz | | the unfortunate side-effect of bricking and freezing consoles, | Oct 08 10:20 |
| schestowitz | | if the Xbox 360 forums are any indication. | Oct 08 10:20 |
| schestowitz | `---- | Oct 08 10:20 |
| schestowitz | http://www.qj.net/RedOctane-admits-to-problems-with-GH2-patch/pg/49/aid/89662 | Oct 08 10:20 |
| Adus | schestowitz: We are confident that any consoles bricked by an update are very very rare. There are hardware problems with the 360, and the more likely explanation is that the console just failed after the update, rather than because of it. | Oct 08 10:20 |
| schestowitz | Sure | Oct 08 10:20 |
| schestowitz | It's never Microsoft's fault | Oct 08 10:21 |
| Adus | Of course it's Microsoft's fault | Oct 08 10:21 |
| schestowitz | Just google "Microsoft blames" | Oct 08 10:21 |
| schestowitz | You'll see what comes up | Oct 08 10:21 |
| Adus | the hardware problems are Microsoft's fault. But it's not a software issue | Oct 08 10:21 |
| Adus | it's a hardware one :p | Oct 08 10:21 |
| Adus | That is why the rrod and e74 errors are covered by a 3 year warranty instead of 1 year | Oct 08 10:21 |
| fewa | My friend has a bricked Xbox 360 | Oct 08 10:22 |
| fewa | he is pissed | Oct 08 10:23 |
| schestowitz | Adus: WIndows is not reliable | Oct 08 10:23 |
| schestowitz | From the news: http://blogs.computerworld.com/14876/london_stock_exchange_dumps_windows_for_linux (London Stock Exchange dumps Windows for Linux) | Oct 08 10:23 |
| Adus | rrod fewa? | Oct 08 10:23 |
| schestowitz | There are far many Linux/OSS developers than Microsoft developers, and it shows | Oct 08 10:23 |
| fewa | i believe so | Oct 08 10:23 |
| fewa | and its off warranty | Oct 08 10:23 |
| schestowitz | Linux just doesn't have marketing/PR people | Oct 08 10:23 |
| Adus | He's had it more than 3 years fewa? | Oct 08 10:23 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC had like 5 bricked xbox360s | Oct 08 10:23 |
| schestowitz | He can't be bothered to mail them back anymore | Oct 08 10:24 |
| Adus | because rrod is covered under the extended warranty, and he should send it back and get it repaired free of charge. | Oct 08 10:24 |
| schestowitz | The Secret Failures of Microsoft http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Q4.06/2E6D9BB2-FE1B-4556-8389-67BD581FBCCC.html | Oct 08 10:24 |
| fewa | when was 360 released? | Oct 08 10:24 |
| fewa | or when was first price decrease | Oct 08 10:24 |
| fewa | thats when he got it | Oct 08 10:24 |
| Adus | 2005 was when it was released. | Oct 08 10:25 |
| Adus | Not sure when the first price drop was. 2006 I guess | Oct 08 10:25 |
| schestowitz | http://ncroal.talk.newsweek.com/default.asp?item=533168 | Oct 08 10:25 |
| schestowitz | | | Oct 08 10:25 |
| schestowitz | To which we reply that we | Oct 08 10:25 |
| schestowitz | | were talking about the original Xbox, and while other divisions of | Oct 08 10:25 |
| schestowitz | | the company throw off more profits in a single quarter than the | Oct 08 10:25 |
| schestowitz | | entire $5 billion or so lost in the home and entertainment division | Oct 08 10:25 |
| schestowitz | It's now $7 billion | Oct 08 10:26 |
| Adus | That link is dead schestowitz | Oct 08 10:26 |
| schestowitz | There's mirrors | Oct 08 10:26 |
| Adus | Anyway, what do you care where Microsoft are losing and making money? :p | Oct 08 10:27 |
| cubezzz | major stockholder! | Oct 08 10:28 |
| cubezzz | j/k | Oct 08 10:28 |
| Adus | I have stock options :p | Oct 08 10:28 |
| Adus | I care :) | Oct 08 10:28 |
| fewa | the money Microsoft has made is largely the product of anti-competitive practices | Oct 08 10:29 |
| Adus | Oh, spare me the speech. I've heard it before :p | Oct 08 10:29 |
| cubezzz | well the stock's been rather flat the last 5 years anyway | Oct 08 10:29 |
| fewa | for every great fortune... | Oct 08 10:30 |
| Adus | I really feel no guilt working for Microsoft. | Oct 08 10:32 |
| Adus | :p | Oct 08 10:32 |
| cubezzz | they had their time | Oct 08 10:32 |
| cubezzz | so what do you do there? | Oct 08 10:32 |
| Adus | I'm the Lead Multiplayer Programmer for the Fable series of games. | Oct 08 10:33 |
| Adus | So, Microsoft Game Studios Europe :) | Oct 08 10:33 |
| schestowitz |  | Oct 08 10:33 |
| schestowitz | [10:27] <Adus> Anyway, what do you care where Microsoft are losing and making money? :p | Oct 08 10:33 |
| schestowitz | I care | Oct 08 10:33 |
| schestowitz | Cause they attack me and billions of people | Oct 08 10:33 |
| schestowitz | They prevent people from usign computers | Oct 08 10:34 |
| schestowitz | They turn computers to toys and force people to pay for Windows | Oct 08 10:34 |
| schestowitz | Through bundling | Oct 08 10:34 |
| fewa | Microsoft people tend to be brainwashed into eager persistant evangelism | Oct 08 10:34 |
| Adus | How do they attack you exactly? You are perfectly entitled to build your own computer and put Linux of it. | Oct 08 10:34 |
| schestowitz | The world would be better when Microsoft can no longer maintain its business (debt exceeding asset value) | Oct 08 10:34 |
| fewa | the ooze it, and it makes them impossible to have a real conversation with them | Oct 08 10:35 |
| Adus | fewa: I disagree with that. There are plenty of people who are into Apple etc here | Oct 08 10:35 |
| schestowitz | *LOL* | Oct 08 10:35 |
| schestowitz | [10:34] <Adus> How do they attack you exactly? You are perfectly entitled to build your own computer and put Linux of it. | Oct 08 10:35 |
| fewa | this is differn't than Apple fanboism | Oct 08 10:35 |
| schestowitz | I can build my own car too | Oct 08 10:35 |
| schestowitz | And tell my parent to build their own PC... | Oct 08 10:35 |
| fewa | its usually it those who have made money off MSFT | Oct 08 10:35 |
| *schestowitz rolls eyes | Oct 08 10:35 | |
| fewa | and MSFT's crimes | Oct 08 10:35 |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 10:36 | |
| Adus | No it's not fewa, it's exactly the same. | Oct 08 10:36 |
| cubezzz | have there been microsoft guys in here before? | Oct 08 10:36 |
| Adus | I'm sure there are free software fanboys at msft as well. | Oct 08 10:36 |
| fewa | they start embodying the bullshit | Oct 08 10:36 |
| fewa | The MSFT drones probably arnt not like this | Oct 08 10:36 |
| schestowitz | Perfuming what they do | Oct 08 10:36 |
| fewa | in fact I know one who I believe is not | Oct 08 10:36 |
| schestowitz | They all have excuses | Oct 08 10:36 |
| fewa | havn't talked to in ages | Oct 08 10:36 |
| Adus | You make it sound like Microsoft is some evil company which brainwashes their employees. Microsoft is actually a really nice place to work. | Oct 08 10:36 |
| schestowitz | In politics, troops that take order and commit atrocities too find their excuses | Oct 08 10:37 |
| schestowitz | Makes it easier living with oneself :-) | Oct 08 10:37 |
| schestowitz | Adus: it is | Oct 08 10:37 |
| fewa | Adus, this type of activity is documented, the characterization if from MSFT itsself http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsumercase.org/ | Oct 08 10:37 |
| schestowitz | Not just employees | Oct 08 10:37 |
| schestowitz | You have things to read, Adus | Oct 08 10:37 |
| schestowitz | They admit lots of it | Oct 08 10:37 |
| fewa | "Evangelism is war" | Oct 08 10:37 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is controlled by people who are convicted thugs. | Oct 08 10:37 |
| schestowitz | Like it or not, the courts determined this too | Oct 08 10:38 |
| schestowitz | ANd Microsoft overthrew judges | Oct 08 10:38 |
| fewa | its only the DoJ under Bush that differed | Oct 08 10:38 |
| schestowitz | Adus: I'm sure you're not a thug | Oct 08 10:38 |
| fewa | which gave MSFT time to dig in | Oct 08 10:38 |
| schestowitz | But your opinions don't count at Microosft | Oct 08 10:38 |
| Adus | yes, I'm aware of the numerous cases. But that doesn't mean the whole company is like that. | Oct 08 10:38 |
| schestowitz | Companies are tyrannies | Oct 08 10:38 |
| schestowitz | And those running them define policies | Oct 08 10:38 |
| fewa | yeah, this is the tyranny at the top | Oct 08 10:38 |
| Adus | msft have won a lot of awards about how they treat employees etc | Oct 08 10:39 |
| cubezzz | maybe | Oct 08 10:39 |
| fewa | and those who made money of t | Oct 08 10:39 |
| Adus | Microsoft Research Denmark is meant to be the best place in Denmark to work | Oct 08 10:39 |
| oiaohm | Adus hitler treated a lot of his staff great as well. | Oct 08 10:39 |
| fewa | and those that buy the american myth and envy the thugs | Oct 08 10:39 |
| schestowitz | Adus: tyrants too can treat their servants well | Oct 08 10:39 |
| Adus | To be honest, the one thing I'm interested in, is making great games. Microsoft have the resources to help us do that. | Oct 08 10:39 |
| schestowitz | It's like saying, "Stalin was a good parent" | Oct 08 10:39 |
| fewa | oiaohm, save the Propaganda for somewhere else | Oct 08 10:39 |
| fewa | <fewa> and those that believe the american myth and envy the thugs | Oct 08 10:40 |
| fewa | (or are paid to pretend) | Oct 08 10:40 |
| fewa | the myth-makers | Oct 08 10:40 |
| Adus | I have no particularly strong feelings about Microsoft. I've worked for 2 other big games developers/publishers | Oct 08 10:40 |
| Adus | Eidos and Codemasters | Oct 08 10:40 |
| Adus | and they were very similar | Oct 08 10:40 |
| fewa | ok | Oct 08 10:40 |
| fewa | yeah working for a corp doesn't make you guilty | Oct 08 10:41 |
| fewa | I believe in free association | Oct 08 10:41 |
| Adus | Microsoft is such a huge organisation it's very hard to make sweeping assertions. | Oct 08 10:41 |
| oiaohm | Record actions define how good or bad a company is. | Oct 08 10:41 |
| cubezzz | closed source just doesn't excite me | Oct 08 10:41 |
| Adus | I work at Lionhead, Which is owned by Microsoft Game Studios Europe, Which is owned by IEB, which is owned by E&D which is owned by Microsoft | Oct 08 10:41 |
| Adus | :p | Oct 08 10:41 |
| fewa | its the people in the corp that are criminal | Oct 08 10:41 |
| schestowitz | people who work for MSFT don't do so to make ends meet. It's not as though they are broke like many people who are forced to join the army as a result and kill innocent people | Oct 08 10:41 |
| fewa | and if the whole thing functions as a well-oiled machine in doing evil, than every person in that machine is guilty | Oct 08 10:42 |
| Adus | Of course they do schestowitz. If they were well off, they wouldn't be working at all. | Oct 08 10:42 |
| cubezzz | closed source basically equals death in the long run | Oct 08 10:42 |
| fewa | but not every person is so instrumental | Oct 08 10:42 |
| schestowitz | Adus: nope | Oct 08 10:43 |
| schestowitz | Fallacy | Oct 08 10:43 |
| schestowitz | it's a zero-sum game | Oct 08 10:43 |
| fewa | yep | Oct 08 10:43 |
| fewa | complete fallacy | Oct 08 10:43 |
| Adus | I work here because it's a job, and they pay well and have decent benefits if I'm honest. | Oct 08 10:43 |
| schestowitz | If Microsoft goes out of business (which some day it will), then its lost business will be the gain of others | Oct 08 10:43 |
| fewa | they work cause they enjoy being thugs | Oct 08 10:43 |
| schestowitz | So jobs crop up elsewhere | Oct 08 10:43 |
| cubezzz | so really you work at Lionhead, not Microsoft? | Oct 08 10:43 |
| fewa | they get to keep screwing other, gaining | Oct 08 10:43 |
| schestowitz | And the money shared not among a few billionaires who make money from organised crime | Oct 08 10:43 |
| Adus | cubezzz: Lionhead is a wholly owned subsiduary of Microsoft since 2006 | Oct 08 10:44 |
| schestowitz | White-collar crime is no less crime than murder | Oct 08 10:44 |
| Adus | my email address is @microsoft.com etc :p | Oct 08 10:44 |
| schestowitz | It cause injure more people | Oct 08 10:44 |
| fewa | billgates@microsoft.com | Oct 08 10:44 |
| Adus | it's actually billg :p | Oct 08 10:44 |
| fewa | "Most of the spam talks of ways to get rich quick, which would be funny if it wern't so annyoing" | Oct 08 10:45 |
| schestowitz | billG has a little department for checking his mail | Oct 08 10:45 |
| schestowitz | He said so, IIRC | Oct 08 10:45 |
| schestowitz | Maybe one PA or maybe more | Oct 08 10:45 |
| fewa | yeah in the same interview he said that gem | Oct 08 10:45 |
| Adus | Yes, all of those people do | Oct 08 10:45 |
| Adus | I imagine if I emailed Steve Ballmer, he wouldnt get it :p | Oct 08 10:45 |
| schestowitz | He's busy lobbying these days | Oct 08 10:45 |
| fewa | same with billg | Oct 08 10:45 |
| Adus | He was in the UK the otehr day. | Oct 08 10:45 |
| oiaohm | Before Lionhead was taken up it was releasing on more platforms that what it is now Adus. The results of MS taken over cutting off supply to competors. | Oct 08 10:45 |
| oiaohm | MS is not the only ones to do this. | Oct 08 10:46 |
| Adus | Did Lionhead actually ever release a game for a competing platform? | Oct 08 10:46 |
| fewa | oiaohm, yet another example of the massive failures of the capitalist system | Oct 08 10:46 |
| Adus | I don't think they did. They were all PC or Xbox | Oct 08 10:46 |
| fewa | albeit a small one | Oct 08 10:46 |
| Adus | which is probably why Microsoft bought them | Oct 08 10:46 |
| oiaohm | Adus Mac. | Oct 08 10:46 |
| Adus | Lionhead didn't make those games | Oct 08 10:46 |
| Adus | they were outsourced by the publisher | Oct 08 10:46 |
| Adus | EA | Oct 08 10:47 |
| oiaohm | They out sourced for porting. | Oct 08 10:47 |
| Adus | If you're referring to Black & White | Oct 08 10:47 |
| fewa | The innovation that happends on the internet shows capitalism doesn't work | Oct 08 10:47 |
| oiaohm | That stoped after MS took over. | Oct 08 10:47 |
| fewa | all the real innovation is coming from individuals | Oct 08 10:47 |
| Adus | True, but there has only been one game since MS took over. | Oct 08 10:47 |
| fewa | ie World of Goo | Oct 08 10:48 |
| *kentma (n=user@host86-155-239-79.range86-155.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 10:48 | |
| oiaohm | Same applies to the other game companies MS took over Adus | Oct 08 10:48 |
| oiaohm | Its not like Lionhead is the odd one out having this happen. | Oct 08 10:48 |
| Adus | Dunno. Rare have released DS games since the Microsoft acquisitio | Oct 08 10:48 |
| schestowitz | Adus: speaking of employee rights: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/12/microsoft-sneaks-out/ | Oct 08 10:48 |
| schestowitz | Lionhead developer sued Microsoft | Oct 08 10:49 |
| fewa | oiaohm, summary of kernel RT http://lwn.net/Articles/354690/#Comments | Oct 08 10:49 |
| schestowitz | Hey, kentma | Oct 08 10:49 |
| schestowitz | wb | Oct 08 10:49 |
| kentma | hi there | Oct 08 10:49 |
| kentma | super-busy, just passing through - a sort of drive-by hello :-) | Oct 08 10:49 |
| Adus | schestowitz: Yes, Jamie Durant. | Oct 08 10:49 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft settled | Oct 08 10:49 |
| Adus | of course they settled | Oct 08 10:49 |
| Adus | it's cheaper and gets less bad press | Oct 08 10:49 |
| Adus | settling means nothing | Oct 08 10:50 |
| schestowitz | bad PR for them | Oct 08 10:50 |
| oiaohm | DS is not a direct competor to MS items at this stage. Name a item that has been released for porting form any one them. Rare was directly making for DS so it stayed happening. | Oct 08 10:50 |
| Adus | every company settles | Oct 08 10:50 |
| schestowitz | Must. Hide. Fast. | Oct 08 10:50 |
| schestowitz | kentma: http://blogs.computerworld.com/14876/london_stock_exchange_dumps_windows_for_linux | Oct 08 10:50 |
| oiaohm | Not true Adus | Oct 08 10:50 |
| schestowitz | \0/ | Oct 08 10:50 |
| kentma | :-) | Oct 08 10:50 |
| schestowitz | We got the Facts{tm} | Oct 08 10:50 |
| cubezzz | heh | Oct 08 10:50 |
| kentma | smart thinking at last - yeah, they got the fax :-) | Oct 08 10:50 |
| oiaohm | Cisco systems had equal a while back and fort it out because they were in the right Adus | Oct 08 10:51 |
| schestowitz | This impacts Italy and SA too | Oct 08 10:51 |
| schestowitz | There will be no market left running Windows | Oct 08 10:51 |
| Adus | oiaohm: That's very rare though. I'm sure Microsoft have fought court battles in the past as well. But the vast majority of companies will just settle because it makes business sense | Oct 08 10:51 |
| Adus | I'm not saying I agree, but that's generally what happens. | Oct 08 10:52 |
| schestowitz | Adus: you don't /have/ to defend your employer, you know? | Oct 08 10:52 |
| schestowitz | It's OK to say they do bad when they do bad | Oct 08 10:52 |
| schestowitz | It's not a religion | Oct 08 10:52 |
| schestowitz | It's not a faith | Oct 08 10:52 |
| Adus | I don't feel I am defending them. | Oct 08 10:52 |
| fewa | Its just free association | Oct 08 10:53 |
| schestowitz | It's funny how people indoctrinate self depending on where the check comes from | Oct 08 10:53 |
| oiaohm | Adus: over takeover issues MS has settled every time. | Oct 08 10:53 |
| Adus | And you feel that *I* am the one who is preaching schestowitz? | Oct 08 10:53 |
| schestowitz | Like people who are Muslim insisting that they and only they are right | Oct 08 10:53 |
| fewa | Adus, where is schestowitz preeching? | Oct 08 10:53 |
| schestowitz | And other religions doing the same | Oct 08 10:53 |
| oiaohm | So in one way if I had my company taken over by MS sueing would most likely be wise. Adus | Oct 08 10:53 |
| schestowitz | And all of these doctrines are mutually contradictory | Oct 08 10:53 |
| Adus | You're basically arguing an opinion. You're not right. | Oct 08 10:53 |
| schestowitz | Truth is not relative | Oct 08 10:53 |
| oiaohm | History is history Adus | Oct 08 10:54 |
| Adus | You might use truth to back up your opinion, but you're opinion is not fact. | Oct 08 10:54 |
| fewa | it could be | Oct 08 10:54 |
| oiaohm | It just seams strange that MS has not fort one. | Oct 08 10:54 |
| fewa | PR | Oct 08 10:54 |
| oiaohm | That kinda suggests they fear fighting it. | Oct 08 10:55 |
| Adus | oiaohm: It's probably cheaper to settle, and no bad PR | Oct 08 10:55 |
| schestowitz | I loved how Churchill (IIRC) were declassified showing him say the truth about oppression and exploitation | Oct 08 10:55 |
| schestowitz | It's nice to have Comes material for this reason | Oct 08 10:55 |
| oiaohm | Problem with settling all the time you do become a target because you will not fight Adus | Oct 08 10:55 |
| oiaohm | Reason why most companies at least fight 1. | Oct 08 10:55 |
| schestowitz | All those things that were assumed to be truth now put in paper by very top people, so the intent can be shown inarguably | Oct 08 10:56 |
| Adus | Not like Microsoft are short of a few dollars. | Oct 08 10:56 |
| oiaohm | Cisco systems was not short either. | Oct 08 10:56 |
| fewa | oiaohm, Microsoft is large enough to not have to | Oct 08 10:56 |
| fewa | if they see its a bad deal they will fight | Oct 08 10:56 |
| schestowitz | Adus: I beg to differ | Oct 08 10:56 |
| fewa | and also retaliate | Oct 08 10:56 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is borrowing money | Oct 08 10:56 |
| Adus | Microsoft has always borrowed money. | Oct 08 10:57 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is "too large too fail"... like Lehman Brothers | Oct 08 10:57 |
| Adus | You expand based on borrowed money and expected future revenue. You know this. | Oct 08 10:57 |
| schestowitz | Well, Microsoft's projections are unrealisted | Oct 08 10:57 |
| schestowitz | *tic | Oct 08 10:57 |
| Adus | I didn't say that. But Microsoft isn't large. Microsoft is a cluster of smaller companies. Microsoft wouldn't collapse. They'd just sell of their different departments. | Oct 08 10:58 |
| schestowitz | It now spends some billions on DCs and stuff when LOSING market share in search | Oct 08 10:58 |
| schestowitz | Investors should bail and some do | Oct 08 10:58 |
| schestowitz | Those in the inside do | Oct 08 10:58 |
| schestowitz | The CFO and others (even Gates) quit MSFT | Oct 08 10:58 |
| Adus | Yeh, I have to say I think the search war is pretty much lost. I'm not sure why Microsoft feel the need to get into that market to be honest. | Oct 08 10:58 |
| schestowitz | They sell their shares | Oct 08 10:58 |
| kentma | it's not about search, it's about advertising, and Microsoft have never understood this. | Oct 08 10:58 |
| schestowitz | Ozzie (IIRC) sold a third last month. Or maybe it was Mondue actually | Oct 08 10:59 |
| schestowitz | *mdie | Oct 08 10:59 |
| fewa | http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/dan/porn/barack3.jpg | Oct 08 10:59 |
| schestowitz | *Craig Mundie | Oct 08 10:59 |
| fewa | "Note the brief spike for Obama at point E up there. That's election day. It took a black man becoming leader of the free world to wrangle the collective consciousness away from sex for roughly 23 minutes." | Oct 08 10:59 |
| Adus | I mean. Google is a verb these days. | Oct 08 10:59 |
| oiaohm | Adus: I can tell you why. Search is a way to sell items like google docs to end users so under mining platform control . | Oct 08 10:59 |
| fewa | Adus, so is Microsuck | Oct 08 11:00 |
| oiaohm | MS is trying to keep control of what users use. | Oct 08 11:00 |
| Adus | Well yes, I understand why they might want a slice of the search market | Oct 08 11:00 |
| fewa | also you used a cap, showing as a noun, and as a proper noun | Oct 08 11:00 |
| *phIRCe (n=b0t@bl8-235-39.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 11:00 | |
| Adus | I don't understan why they think they can get it | Oct 08 11:00 |
| schestowitz | !google microsuck ? | Oct 08 11:00 |
| phIRCe | [1] - This domain name is for sale. | http://www.microsuck.com/ | Oct 08 11:00 |
| phIRCe | [2] - How much would YOU pay for Microsuck.com? | Ask Metafilter | http://ask.metafilter.com/71471/How-much-would-YOU-pay-for-Microsuckcom | Oct 08 11:00 |
| phIRCe | [3] - Urban Dictionary: microsuck | http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3Fterm%3Dmicrosuck | Oct 08 11:00 |
| phIRCe | [4] - MicroSuck.com - AboutUs Wiki Page | http://www.aboutus.org/MicroSuck.com | Oct 08 11:00 |
| fewa | lol | Oct 08 11:00 |
| Adus | :D | Oct 08 11:00 |
| trmanco | Qt: 4.5.2 | Oct 08 11:00 |
| trmanco | KDE: 4.3.2 (KDE 4.3.2) | Oct 08 11:00 |
| oiaohm | Adus: Its a bit of the case if they don't get it they are in trouble. | Oct 08 11:00 |
| trmanco | kde4-config: 1.0 | Oct 08 11:00 |
| trmanco | :D | Oct 08 11:00 |
| fewa | i made that up | Oct 08 11:01 |
| fewa | MS has lost attention | Oct 08 11:01 |
| oiaohm | Google is becoming a more well known brand than Microsoft. | Oct 08 11:01 |
| fewa | way more oiaohm | Oct 08 11:01 |
| fewa | Facebook(tm) Myspace (tm) | Oct 08 11:02 |
| fewa | Yahoo (tm) | Oct 08 11:02 |
| oiaohm | That kind of attention gives google ways to market more product. | Oct 08 11:02 |
| fewa | meh | Oct 08 11:02 |
| schestowitz | http://www.junauza.com/2009/10/ubuntu-cola-vs-windows-cola.html | Oct 08 11:02 |
| phIRCe | Title: Ubuntu Cola vs. Windows Cola | TECH SOURCE FROM BOHOL .::. Size~: 97.72 KB | Oct 08 11:02 |
| Adus | How very witty | Oct 08 11:03 |
| fewa | schestowitz, http://bhopalwater.com/ | Oct 08 11:03 |
| phIRCe | Title: B'eau-pal: Our Story... .::. Size~: 2.31 KB | Oct 08 11:03 |
| cubezzz | there's open cola too :) | Oct 08 11:04 |
| cubezzz | lol, bsod on the can | Oct 08 11:05 |
| fewa | Microsoft is an anti-brand at this point | Oct 08 11:05 |
| cubezzz | one product you'll never see: free cola | Oct 08 11:06 |
| schestowitz | http://flexense.com/resources/nas_performance_comparison.html | Oct 08 11:06 |
| phIRCe | Title: FlexTk - NAS Performance Comparison .::. Size~: 10.98 KB | Oct 08 11:06 |
| fewa | I'll make it | Oct 08 11:06 |
| fewa | and charge $1/can :P | Oct 08 11:06 |
| fewa | (S&H) | Oct 08 11:07 |
| cubezzz | of course :) | Oct 08 11:08 |
| cubezzz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCola_(drink) | Oct 08 11:08 |
| phIRCe | Title: OpenCola (drink) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 42.45 KB | Oct 08 11:08 |
| trmanco | http://bangarangkde.wordpress.com/2009/10/07/intro/ | Oct 08 11:08 |
| phIRCe | Title: Bangarang A KDE Media Player « Bangarang A KDE media player .::. Size~: 16.82 KB | Oct 08 11:08 |
| trmanco | who need banshee? | Oct 08 11:08 |
| trmanco | needs* | Oct 08 11:08 |
| schestowitz | http://www.redhat.com/about/news/prarchive/2009/rh-ms-virtualization-interoperability.html | Oct 08 11:10 |
| phIRCe | Title: redhat.com | The World's Open Source Leader .::. Size~: 20.97 KB | Oct 08 11:10 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: Novell and Microsoft | Oct 08 11:10 |
| schestowitz | Banshee contains "illegal" mono | Oct 08 11:10 |
| schestowitz | Stuff that's outside the MCP | Oct 08 11:10 |
| *Omar87 (n=Omar87@94.249.15.139) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 11:12 | |
| *kentma has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Oct 08 11:12 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/10/quick-boot/ | Oct 08 11:12 |
| phIRCe | Title: Computer Makers Aim to Banish Boot-Up Blues | Gadget Lab | Wired.com .::. Size~: 113.51 KB | Oct 08 11:12 |
| *Omar87 is using Empathy. | Oct 08 11:13 | |
| *natasiel (n=chatzill@modemcable047.81-200-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 11:13 | |
| schestowitz | " | Oct 08 11:14 |
| schestowitz | Another route to quick boot is to do what Dell has done with its latest notebook. Dell’s newly launched Latitude Z offers instant boot to check e-mail, calendar, contacts and the web as part of a mode called ‘Latitude On.’ In it the PC boots from a special chipset running an ARM processor, the same kind of CPU that powers most cellphones, and a slimmed down version of the Linux operating system. | Oct 08 11:14 |
| schestowitz | The Latitude On mode comes with its own power on/off button. Users can click on an adjacent power button to switch to Windows OS. That gives consumers options, says Robert Thomson, product manager for Latitude Z at Dell. “When you directly go to the Latitude On mode, you never bring up the main operating system,” he says “And when you turn it off, it goes into the suspend mode, which is not like that of Vista or XP but more | Oct 08 11:14 |
| schestowitz | like what you see in cellphones.” | Oct 08 11:14 |
| schestowitz | Big problem there for Microsoft | Oct 08 11:14 |
| *Omar87 is not enjoying the Empathy UI. | Oct 08 11:14 | |
| schestowitz | Linus to gain visibility on perhaps hundreds of millions of PCs within years | Oct 08 11:14 |
| *Omar87 (n=Omar87@94.249.15.139) has left #boycottnovell | Oct 08 11:14 | |
| schestowitz | And it CAN'T be removed | Oct 08 11:14 |
| fewa | Omar joins | Oct 08 11:15 |
| fewa | Omar bitches | Oct 08 11:15 |
| fewa | Omar leaves | Oct 08 11:15 |
| natasiel | hello BoycottNovell Folks | Oct 08 11:16 |
| fewa | hey natasiel | Oct 08 11:16 |
| natasiel | Most of all, I want to congratulate you for your website | Oct 08 11:16 |
| natasiel | I have used linux for the past 50 years, but ... /jk | Oct 08 11:17 |
| natasiel | I wonder is there any translation of the site going on? | Oct 08 11:18 |
| fewa | natasiel, if you are using chatzilla from inside Firefox I recommend xchat http://www.xchat.org/ http://www.silverex.org/download/ | Oct 08 11:18 |
| phIRCe | Title: XChat: Multiplatform Chat Program .::. Size~: 12.57 KB | Oct 08 11:18 |
| phIRCe | Title: X-Chat 2 for Windows .::. Size~: 3.12 KB | Oct 08 11:18 |
| natasiel | I used xchat a while ago, any reason to use it instead of chatzilla? | Oct 08 11:19 |
| fewa | well then | Oct 08 11:19 |
| fewa | no | Oct 08 11:19 |
| fewa | just alot of newbies use chatzilla in firefox and then when firefox crashes they loose their session | Oct 08 11:19 |
| Adus | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkDD03yeLnU | Oct 08 11:19 |
| phIRCe | Title: YouTube - GUI interface using visual basic to track the killers IP address CSI .::. Size~: 129.57 KB | Oct 08 11:19 |
| fewa | no reason to not use as a xulrunner app instead | Oct 08 11:20 |
| fewa | Adus, product placement | Oct 08 11:20 |
| cubezzz | one nice thing about text browsing, I can lean back in my chair and not have to reach for the mouse | Oct 08 11:21 |
| natasiel | hopefully, I don't remember the last time firefox (seamonkey here) crashed | Oct 08 11:21 |
| fewa | xulrunner http://chatzilla.rdmsoft.com/xulrunner/ | Oct 08 11:21 |
| phIRCe | Title: ChatZilla on XULRunner .::. Size~: 5.09 KB | Oct 08 11:21 |
| fewa | Its pretty good | Oct 08 11:21 |
| Adus | fewa: Since when have Microsoft been pushing Visual Basic in the last 5 years? C# is the DevDiv's baby the last few years :p | Oct 08 11:21 |
| fewa | they did push it 5 years ago | Oct 08 11:22 |
| fewa | I even had a book | Oct 08 11:22 |
| cubezzz | microsoft.com doesn't work at all though, lol | Oct 08 11:23 |
| Adus | fewa: Yes. They pushed Visual Basic 6. But since Visual Studio 2002 they have pretty much forgotted about VB as far as I can tell | Oct 08 11:24 |
| Adus | forgotten* | Oct 08 11:24 |
| Adus | C# seems to be the big focus. There is VB.NET of course. | Oct 08 11:24 |
| natasiel | if only youtube where more respectful about user's freedom as some decent website and would allow oggtheora stream | Oct 08 11:24 |
| *kentma (n=user@host86-155-239-79.range86-155.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 11:24 | |
| fewa | http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/34765 | Oct 08 11:25 |
| phIRCe | Title: Free Youtube! for Greasemonkey .::. Size~: 16.29 KB | Oct 08 11:25 |
| fewa | also vlc and totem support youtube | Oct 08 11:26 |
| Adus | Ogg Theora is an unknown patent rish though. | Oct 08 11:26 |
| Adus | At least according to Google and Apple | Oct 08 11:27 |
| fewa | Adus, pure FUD | Oct 08 11:27 |
| Adus | risk* | Oct 08 11:27 |
| Adus | Though, to be honest I don't agree with software patents at all | Oct 08 11:27 |
| fewa | but year you are kinda right | Oct 08 11:27 |
| Adus | We don't have them in Europe luckily enough. | Oct 08 11:27 |
| fewa | everything ever written is a unknown patent risk | Oct 08 11:27 |
| fewa | unless it was written 20 years ago | Oct 08 11:27 |
| fewa | *at least | Oct 08 11:27 |
| cubezzz | browsing boycottnovell.com is nice and fast on elinks :) | Oct 08 11:28 |
| cubezzz | it works pretty well | Oct 08 11:28 |
| natasiel | fewa: I am pretty sure something written 20 years ago is not spared from danger, if the patent has been registered later on | Oct 08 11:29 |
| fewa | natasiel, it is | Oct 08 11:29 |
| fewa | due to prior art rules | Oct 08 11:29 |
| natasiel | nice to hear | Oct 08 11:29 |
| fewa | if it was written 20 years ago, it cannot be covered by a legitimate patent | Oct 08 11:29 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Installed Ubuntu Karmic Koala (Beta 1) on my Acer Aspire 7220 laptop. Recognised Atheros WiFi right out of the box. Faster boot time. | Oct 08 11:30 | |
| natasiel | precisely 20 years? like in 1989? | Oct 08 11:30 |
| fewa | precisely | Oct 08 11:30 |
| fewa | this is because patents last for 20 years | Oct 08 11:30 |
| natasiel | interesting, did'nt knew that | Oct 08 11:31 |
| Adus | But I could get a patent on anything now, and any software which uses it is infringing | Oct 08 11:31 |
| fewa | Adus, no | Oct 08 11:31 |
| oiaohm | Prior art. | Oct 08 11:31 |
| fewa | cause if other software uses it before you did, then your patent is not valid | Oct 08 11:31 |
| oiaohm | Patent killer. | Oct 08 11:31 |
| oiaohm | Then there is IBM barb wire. | Oct 08 11:31 |
| Adus | Anyway, they should do away with Software Patents | Oct 08 11:32 |
| oiaohm | That you have to watch out for. | Oct 08 11:32 |
| fewa | oiaohm, what is that | Oct 08 11:32 |
| fewa | patent thicket? | Oct 08 11:32 |
| oiaohm | Defencive publications. | Oct 08 11:32 |
| oiaohm | That effectively mean you take out a patent you can all of a sudent be in breach of another patent. | Oct 08 11:32 |
| oiaohm | Because you overlaped with a Defensive publication near the other patent. | Oct 08 11:33 |
| fewa | oh jeeze | Oct 08 11:33 |
| oiaohm | Ibm barb wire nasty stuff. | Oct 08 11:33 |
| fewa | so much time, money, and turd throwing | Oct 08 11:33 |
| fewa | all unproductive | Oct 08 11:33 |
| Adus | Aren't they reviewing the legallity of Software patents in the US at the moment? | Oct 08 11:34 |
| oiaohm | Nasty thing abotu defencive publications is that they are not listed in the patent list. | Oct 08 11:34 |
| fewa | The Supreme Court ie SCOTUS | Oct 08 11:34 |
| fewa | is reviewing a case on business method patents | Oct 08 11:34 |
| oiaohm | So you can do a full patent search and thing you are free and clear. | Oct 08 11:34 |
| fewa | the most absurd type of patents | Oct 08 11:34 |
| fewa | *hearing a case | Oct 08 11:34 |
| fewa | something which was already ruled out by supreme court, see Diamond v Diehr for example | Oct 08 11:34 |
| fewa | but the Federal Circuit court, which is essentially a patent court seperated from the regular courts by congress at the behest of lobbiests, declares them sort of valid in State Street | Oct 08 11:35 |
| oiaohm | IBM developed the art of using defensive publications. | Oct 08 11:35 |
| fewa | which was largely overruled in its own case of In Re Bilski | Oct 08 11:36 |
| oiaohm | Cheep way to make patents cover lot larger area. | Oct 08 11:36 |
| fewa | which the supreme court has decided to hear the petitioner's case | Oct 08 11:36 |
| oiaohm | OIN also uses IBM barb wire. | Oct 08 11:36 |
| fewa | oiaohm, ewwww | Oct 08 11:36 |
| fewa | how do they use it? | Oct 08 11:37 |
| schestowitz | hey, natasiel | Oct 08 11:37 |
| oiaohm | Same way IBM designed. | Oct 08 11:37 |
| schestowitz | Sorry, just caught up with the above. Still reading... | Oct 08 11:37 |
| fewa | but what do they seek from the defendants? | Oct 08 11:37 |
| oiaohm | For every patent OIN holds there are 50 barb wire documents. | Oct 08 11:37 |
| oiaohm | Not what you want to get mixed up with. | Oct 08 11:38 |
| fewa | it sounds like a lawyers wet dream | Oct 08 11:38 |
| oiaohm | Not if you are attacking OIN or IBM. | Oct 08 11:38 |
| fewa | just in general | Oct 08 11:38 |
| fewa | i'm sure it employees alot of patent lawyers | Oct 08 11:39 |
| fewa | such regimes | Oct 08 11:39 |
| oiaohm | Because you know you will be under a stack of paperwork you have never seen before. | Oct 08 11:39 |
| oiaohm | Note barb wire does not tell you want patent it is connected to. | Oct 08 11:39 |
| oiaohm | So is very hard to invalidate. | Oct 08 11:39 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @ml2mst post a review somewhere. Don't let this go to waste. | Oct 08 11:40 | |
| oiaohm | Yes is pure evil you invilidate the patent the barb wire is connected to and if they can find a close enough patent they still hold they can reconnect it. | Oct 08 11:40 |
| schestowitz | [11:36] <oiaohm> OIN also uses IBM barb wire. | Oct 08 11:41 |
| schestowitz | OIN=IBM+more | Oct 08 11:41 |
| oiaohm | IBM and OIN are ready for a patent war. | Oct 08 11:41 |
| schestowitz | No need for war | Oct 08 11:41 |
| schestowitz | Just abolish software patents | Oct 08 11:42 |
| fewa | but will courts go along with a war? | Oct 08 11:42 |
| schestowitz | The whole idea is stupid | Oct 08 11:42 |
| schestowitz | The Big Blue is like the USSR | Oct 08 11:42 |
| fewa | I don't think courts would put themselves into such a situation | Oct 08 11:42 |
| oiaohm | MS had the idea it would use patents to destroy Open Source. | Oct 08 11:42 |
| fewa | <schestowitz> The Big Blue is like the USSR | Oct 08 11:42 |
| fewa | yep | Oct 08 11:42 |
| fewa | Apple's 1984 | Oct 08 11:42 |
| oiaohm | Problem is open source is now armed to teeth. | Oct 08 11:42 |
| schestowitz | There's a PJ version, fewa | Oct 08 11:42 |
| fewa | PJ? | Oct 08 11:43 |
| oiaohm | Most likely it would be sane to end patents before MS ends up on the wrong side. | Oct 08 11:43 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYecfV3ubP8 | Oct 08 11:43 |
| phIRCe | Title: YouTube - 1984 Apple's Macintosh Commercial .::. Size~: 128.12 KB | Oct 08 11:43 |
| schestowitz | Some people plugged in Groklaw and SCO subtitles | Oct 08 11:44 |
| oiaohm | I don't know where MS got the IDEA that open soruce would not have the money to take out patents. | Oct 08 11:44 |
| schestowitz | Can't find it anymore.. must have been removed | Oct 08 11:44 |
| oiaohm | Or aquire them. | Oct 08 11:44 |
| oiaohm | Who ever had that idea should be in a lot of trouble right now. | Oct 08 11:44 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: Linux, not FOSS | Oct 08 11:44 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @schestowitz, I' m working on the article right now ;-) | Oct 08 11:45 | |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: Phelps | Oct 08 11:45 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu still uses very ugly themes (IMHO): http://www.workswithu.com/2009/10/07/ubuntu-910-preview-new-theme-icons/ | Oct 08 11:46 |
| phIRCe | Title: Ubuntu 9.10 Preview: New Theme, Icons | WorksWithU .::. Size~: 47.52 KB | Oct 08 11:46 |
| fewa | meh 9.10 GNOME even has multiple desktop images ! :P | Oct 08 11:46 |
| oiaohm | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/07/microsoft_red_hat_virtualization_interoperability_pact/ Hello suxer. MS. | Oct 08 11:48 |
| phIRCe | Title: Microsoft and Red Hat consummate virtualization vows • The Register .::. Size~: 23.22 KB | Oct 08 11:48 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, I brought it up earlier | Oct 08 11:48 |
| schestowitz | Just hooking up VM s/w without patents | Oct 08 11:49 |
| oiaohm | In the next 12 months Redhat gains vmwares memory sharing tech between virtual machines KSM. | Oct 08 11:49 |
| schestowitz | Novell was shown to be foolish | Oct 08 11:49 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat did this with s/w pats off the table | Oct 08 11:49 |
| oiaohm | so for MS to keep Hyper-V equal they will have to pay Vmware. | Oct 08 11:49 |
| fewa | "tech" | Oct 08 11:49 |
| oiaohm | So yes hello sucker. | Oct 08 11:49 |
| schestowitz | VMware is already in Microsoft's pocket | Oct 08 11:49 |
| schestowitz | It's run by them | Oct 08 11:50 |
| fewa | they call things tech so they can patent them | Oct 08 11:50 |
| fewa | not the other way around | Oct 08 11:50 |
| schestowitz | Virtually [pun] | Oct 08 11:50 |
| fewa | also because free software alternatives are better | Oct 08 11:50 |
| oiaohm | VMware had reasons to give it to Linux for nothing. | Oct 08 11:50 |
| fewa | VMware is slower than its competition | Oct 08 11:50 |
| schestowitz | fewa: beat me to it | Oct 08 11:50 |
| schestowitz | I rewrote "tech" earlier | Oct 08 11:50 |
| oiaohm | Ie other patents VMware needs. | Oct 08 11:50 |
| schestowitz | "Solution" is another | Oct 08 11:50 |
| schestowitz | Trying to make from code more than what it is | Oct 08 11:51 |
| schestowitz | Namely copyright | Oct 08 11:51 |
| fewa | Kernel Virtual Machines > all | Oct 08 11:51 |
| schestowitz | Making it seem like property or something physical | Oct 08 11:51 |
| oiaohm | KSM is off VMware way of doing thigns fewa | Oct 08 11:51 |
| oiaohm | The thing that will allow KVM to run a lot more in same ram. | Oct 08 11:51 |
| oiaohm | VMware is in the management game so is not too worried about KVM. | Oct 08 11:52 |
| schestowitz | http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/monetizing_speed_ap_may_charge_for_30_min_lead.php | Oct 08 11:52 |
| schestowitz | I love seeing how the old press struggles to compete with independent (And free) | Oct 08 11:52 |
| fewa | yeah KVM doesn't share ram like V-server of OpenVZ can | Oct 08 11:53 |
| fewa | V-server even has v-hashify which is hard links on steroids | Oct 08 11:53 |
| fewa | old press==propagandists | Oct 08 11:54 |
| fewa | the other "old press" has embraces the web | Oct 08 11:54 |
| fewa | eagerly | Oct 08 11:54 |
| oiaohm | KSM is about equal to V-server or OpenVZ on memory sharing with KVM. | Oct 08 11:54 |
| fewa | those that actually wish to be journalists, spread stories | Oct 08 11:54 |
| fewa | uncover thuths | Oct 08 11:54 |
| oiaohm | So yes way more copies of server can be run side by side using KSM. | Oct 08 11:55 |
| fewa | link | Oct 08 11:55 |
| fewa | cause that TLA doesnt google to anything | Oct 08 11:55 |
| oiaohm | KSM is a simple scan memory for matching blocks. | Oct 08 11:55 |
| fewa | yuck | Oct 08 11:55 |
| oiaohm | Then only store 1 copy | Oct 08 11:55 |
| oiaohm | And have it appear everywere in a copy on write format. | Oct 08 11:56 |
| fewa | what would be cooler would be like fs+multiple mounts+v-hashify | Oct 08 11:56 |
| fewa | hmm | Oct 08 11:56 |
| fewa | would be hard | Oct 08 11:56 |
| fewa | some way of using kernel fs cache | Oct 08 11:56 |
| fewa | and shared memory | Oct 08 11:56 |
| natasiel | I'd like to know what extinguished the dinosaurs, it could be reapplied today | Oct 08 11:57 |
| fewa | excessive carbon dioxide | Oct 08 11:57 |
| oiaohm | natasiel: Of coruse it could. What ever happend back then something equal could happen. | Oct 08 11:58 |
| oiaohm | Big rock would be simple to happen again. | Oct 08 11:58 |
| fewa | actually...the prevailing theory is a meteor that spread particulate matter into the sky that blotted out the sun | Oct 08 11:58 |
| fewa | blocking ultraviolet | Oct 08 11:58 |
| fewa | essentially the opposite as what is happening today | Oct 08 11:58 |
| oiaohm | Not really. | Oct 08 11:59 |
| fewa | some climate scientists has proposed purposefully putting particulate matter in the sky to reflect sunlight | Oct 08 11:59 |
| oiaohm | Evaportation ponds tell a different story. | Oct 08 11:59 |
| schestowitz | Hahaha. http://techdirt.com/articles/20091006/2245076436.shtml | Oct 08 11:59 |
| phIRCe | Title: Ralph Lauren And Its Lawyers Discover The Streisand Effect On Bogus DMCA Takedown | Techdirt .::. Size~: 77.09 KB | Oct 08 11:59 |
| fewa | and cancel out the greenhouse effect | Oct 08 11:59 |
| oiaohm | Less light is reaching the earth surface. | Oct 08 11:59 |
| oiaohm | Evaportation needs light. | Oct 08 11:59 |
| fewa | oiaohm, what do the evaporation ponds tell? | Oct 08 11:59 |
| schestowitz | "The Times and Sunday Times yesterday revealed plans for a readers' club with a £50 membership fee to non-subscribers, another example of newspapers attempting to develop new revenue streams from loyal readers rather than following a high-volume strategy." | Oct 08 12:00 |
| schestowitz | http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/oct/06/economist-pay-wall-archive | Oct 08 12:00 |
| oiaohm | Over the last 50 years the ammount of light hitting the earth has reduced due to polution. | Oct 08 12:00 |
| schestowitz | Good riddance to them | Oct 08 12:00 |
| fewa | oiaohm, yes, but the uv has gone up | Oct 08 12:00 |
| oiaohm | So we are slowly cutting off the sun fewa | Oct 08 12:00 |
| oiaohm | Ozone deplete | Oct 08 12:00 |
| fewa | due to ozone depletion | Oct 08 12:00 |
| fewa | and infared reflection due to CO2 | Oct 08 12:00 |
| oiaohm | But even the ozone depletion would be canseled out in about 200 years. | Oct 08 12:01 |
| oiaohm | If we dont' change our path. | Oct 08 12:01 |
| fewa | CO2 is 4X what it has been in the last 10 ice ages | Oct 08 12:01 |
| fewa | *4X the max | Oct 08 12:01 |
| oiaohm | No light no plants. | Oct 08 12:01 |
| fewa | UV hurts plants | Oct 08 12:02 |
| oiaohm | So what we end up with is a hot earth and nothign to eat. | Oct 08 12:02 |
| fewa | it doesn't help them | Oct 08 12:02 |
| fewa | blocking it out would increase crop production | Oct 08 12:02 |
| fewa | uv damage is huge | Oct 08 12:02 |
| oiaohm | Uv is also used by insecets to find flowers. | Oct 08 12:02 |
| fewa | I understand | Oct 08 12:02 |
| oiaohm | No light no UV at all will sux big time. | Oct 08 12:03 |
| oiaohm | and heat only. | Oct 08 12:03 |
| fewa | this would not be no UV | Oct 08 12:03 |
| fewa | it would be less | Oct 08 12:03 |
| fewa | even 1% has huge effects | Oct 08 12:03 |
| fewa | *huge* | Oct 08 12:03 |
| oiaohm | I am talking at current rates none. | Oct 08 12:03 |
| oiaohm | In 200 years. | Oct 08 12:03 |
| fewa | nahhh | Oct 08 12:03 |
| fewa | that's not right | Oct 08 12:03 |
| fewa | the pollution, coal and the like will be gone by then | Oct 08 12:03 |
| fewa | and that type of pollution dissapates | Oct 08 12:04 |
| oiaohm | We are building a very thick particular cloud. | Oct 08 12:04 |
| fewa | comes down with rain, etc | Oct 08 12:04 |
| oiaohm | Not all comes down. | Oct 08 12:04 |
| fewa | but yeah, coal pollution is horrible | Oct 08 12:04 |
| oiaohm | Stuff that makes it into the upper attmosphere is going to take ages to get back. | Oct 08 12:04 |
| fewa | particulate doesn't get up there | Oct 08 12:04 |
| oiaohm | Also our space junk is not heling. | Oct 08 12:04 |
| fewa | CFCs do | Oct 08 12:04 |
| fewa | space junk isn't sun problem | Oct 08 12:05 |
| oiaohm | There are some particiles that are getting up there fewa | Oct 08 12:05 |
| oiaohm | Nano spheres with basically a vacume inside them. | Oct 08 12:05 |
| trmanco | http://friendfeed-media.com/3fd48ec188a661d0f7ce21c55f568c5de6f5db0b | Oct 08 12:05 |
| phIRCe | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/png type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Oct 08 12:05 |
| trmanco | :) | Oct 08 12:05 |
| schestowitz | Check out this video: http://mymediamusings.com/2009/09/29/fantastic-student-music-video-to-i-gotta-feeling-gotta-be-banned/ | Oct 08 12:06 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] My new KDE desktop (KDE 4.3.2 using AIR) [pic] http://ff.im/9qMp5 | Oct 08 12:06 | |
| phIRCe | Title: mymediamusings » Fantastic Student Music Video to I Gotta Feeling! Gotta Be Banned? .::. Size~: 19.28 KB | Oct 08 12:06 |
| phIRCe | Title: My new KDE desktop (KDE 4.3.2 using AIR) - Tony Manco - FriendFeed .::. Size~: 7.17 KB | Oct 08 12:06 |
| oiaohm | fewa: space junk coming back into the upper attmosphere is putting some particules in there. | Oct 08 12:06 |
| fewa | but when it comes down it should destabalize and come down quickly | Oct 08 12:07 |
| fewa | problem is if it breaks up | Oct 08 12:07 |
| oiaohm | It breaks up more often than not. | Oct 08 12:08 |
| oiaohm | Or bounces along the attmosphere before deciding to come in as well. | Oct 08 12:08 |
| oiaohm | Basically we are very good at making a insanely dirty earth. | Oct 08 12:09 |
| schestowitz | http://www.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idUSTRE5961UX20091007 | Oct 08 12:10 |
| schestowitz | *LOL* | Oct 08 12:10 |
| oiaohm | http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/AlacrityVM Novell answer to KVM at redhat. | Oct 08 12:10 |
| phIRCe | Title: AlacrityVM - Developer Community .::. Size~: 21.67 KB | Oct 08 12:10 |
| schestowitz | "Microsoft's Ballmer sees Windows 7 effect on PC market muted" | Oct 08 12:10 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: I use Oxygen | Oct 08 12:10 |
| schestowitz | I've had dark themes since the last decade | Oct 08 12:10 |
| schestowitz | I like black GUIs | Oct 08 12:10 |
| trmanco | I was using it w hile ago | Oct 08 12:11 |
| trmanco | but I got tired of it | Oct 08 12:11 |
| schestowitz | Your desktop is very minimalist there | Oct 08 12:11 |
| schestowitz | Assuming it's not a general pic | Oct 08 12:11 |
| schestowitz | *generic | Oct 08 12:11 |
| trmanco | I didn't have any widgets either | Oct 08 12:11 |
| trmanco | when I was using oxygen | Oct 08 12:11 |
| trmanco | I got kinda tired of black | Oct 08 12:13 |
| oiaohm | That is the one thing so far. I have not theme my KDE. | Oct 08 12:14 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/07/debian_freebsd_kernel/ | Oct 08 12:14 |
| phIRCe | Title: Debian to harness FreeBSD with kernel port • The Register .::. Size~: 23.62 KB | Oct 08 12:14 |
| fewa | people are still going to upgrade to XP | Oct 08 12:15 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/07/scam_spam_spike/ | Oct 08 12:15 |
| phIRCe | Title: Spammers jump on Gmail, Hotmail mass-hack gravy train • The Register .::. Size~: 23.12 KB | Oct 08 12:15 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: make wallpaper slideshows | Oct 08 12:16 |
| schestowitz | It's not so black | Oct 08 12:16 |
| trmanco | I like a fixed wallpaper | Oct 08 12:16 |
| oiaohm | Link time optimistation is in trunk of gcc | Oct 08 12:17 |
| schestowitz | http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=8778347 | Oct 08 12:17 |
| oiaohm | So far most Linux drivers reduce in size. | Oct 08 12:17 |
| phIRCe | Title: Taliban Claim Afghan Bomb, Say Embassy Was Target - ABC News .::. Size~: 63.82 KB | Oct 08 12:17 |
| schestowitz | fewa: don't expect much coverage when US planed bomb afghan civilians | Oct 08 12:17 |
| schestowitz | *planes | Oct 08 12:17 |
| oiaohm | Not exactly US bombs. | Oct 08 12:18 |
| schestowitz | Sometimes they are | Oct 08 12:18 |
| oiaohm | US mercs shotting peole | Oct 08 12:18 |
| schestowitz | It's scarcely reported | Oct 08 12:18 |
| oiaohm | What new. | Oct 08 12:18 |
| schestowitz | Esp. in main media sources like NYT | Oct 08 12:18 |
| schestowitz | The party lines fits better with showing the evils of the 'enemy' | Oct 08 12:18 |
| oiaohm | USA cannot work out why when ever they take over a country they fail to hold it. | Oct 08 12:18 |
| schestowitz | It also justifies more US bombings | Oct 08 12:18 |
| oiaohm | Shotting the locals doing nothing bad don't help. | Oct 08 12:19 |
| schestowitz | Rather than show the death caused by intervention there they justify being there using such incidents | Oct 08 12:19 |
| schestowitz | Same in Iraq BTW | Oct 08 12:19 |
| schestowitz | Car bombs to justify occuption | Oct 08 12:19 |
| schestowitz | Rather than ask what lead to the bombing in the first place | Oct 08 12:19 |
| schestowitz | Texaco et al should get the hell out of there | Oct 08 12:19 |
| schestowitz | Support the troops, bring them back home | Oct 08 12:20 |
| oiaohm | Australia normal has the job of picking up the bits. | Oct 08 12:20 |
| schestowitz | I love this one: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/10/swartz-fbi | Oct 08 12:20 |
| phIRCe | Title: FBI Investigated Coder for Liberating Paywalled Court Records | Threat Level | Wired.com .::. Size~: 108.53 KB | Oct 08 12:20 |
| oiaohm | And trying to make something that the place does not fall in chaos after the USA has been there. | Oct 08 12:20 |
| schestowitz | Here's a case of court documents that belong to the public being liberated as they should be | Oct 08 12:20 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: the "peace|war song" (waltzing matilda) is about an Australian | Oct 08 12:21 |
| schestowitz | "And they flew me back home to Australia" | Oct 08 12:21 |
| fewa | geeze | Oct 08 12:21 |
| fewa | FBI doesn't want people to have access to justice | Oct 08 12:22 |
| fewa | quite literally | Oct 08 12:22 |
| schestowitz | Exactly | Oct 08 12:22 |
| schestowitz | BUT... | Oct 08 12:22 |
| schestowitz | Only if you're affluent | Oct 08 12:22 |
| schestowitz | Like a lawyer | Oct 08 12:22 |
| schestowitz | Cause this may lead to less resentment | Oct 08 12:22 |
| fewa | notice "want people" | Oct 08 12:22 |
| fewa | didnt' specify who | Oct 08 12:22 |
| schestowitz | How about declassified docs? | Oct 08 12:22 |
| fewa | no justice unless you pay us | Oct 08 12:22 |
| fewa | (which isn't justice at all) | Oct 08 12:23 |
| schestowitz | Do only intellectuals have the means to access those? | Oct 08 12:23 |
| schestowitz | It's just for lawyers to build more cases | Oct 08 12:23 |
| fewa | schestowitz, the internet is set to change these things | Oct 08 12:23 |
| schestowitz | THey need PACER to MAKE MONEY | Oct 08 12:23 |
| schestowitz | But Groklaw needs to pay | Oct 08 12:23 |
| schestowitz | Cause Groklaw makes no cases | Oct 08 12:23 |
| schestowitz | It serves copies to the public | Oct 08 12:23 |
| fewa | PACER was a big step when it was released | Oct 08 12:23 |
| schestowitz | RECAP? | Oct 08 12:23 |
| schestowitz | Even better. | Oct 08 12:24 |
| fewa | but it since hasn't evolved, as those running it like it the way it is | Oct 08 12:24 |
| fewa | aka the contractors | Oct 08 12:24 |
| fewa | but yeah RECAP looks to get around | Oct 08 12:24 |
| schestowitz | In other countries such services were illegalised AFAIK | Oct 08 12:24 |
| fewa | cant be here | Oct 08 12:24 |
| schestowitz | People did not like seeing their names showing up in cases that showed their crimes | Oct 08 12:24 |
| schestowitz | And it got indexed by search engines | Oct 08 12:24 |
| fewa | 17 USC S 120 | Oct 08 12:24 |
| fewa | i think 120 | Oct 08 12:24 |
| fewa | also a court case from the 19th century | Oct 08 12:25 |
| schestowitz | Slated has full copy of Comes | Oct 08 12:25 |
| schestowitz | THat's the copy I typically use | Oct 08 12:25 |
| schestowitz | BN just stores the PDFs is uses | Oct 08 12:25 |
| fewa | "the copy" | Oct 08 12:25 |
| schestowitz | *it uses | Oct 08 12:25 |
| fewa | you actually make copies of it | Oct 08 12:25 |
| fewa | you mean "version" | Oct 08 12:25 |
| schestowitz | No copy | Oct 08 12:25 |
| schestowitz | Exact copy | Oct 08 12:25 |
| fewa | and then those that view it make another copy | Oct 08 12:25 |
| fewa | lots and lots of copies | Oct 08 12:25 |
| fewa | when you look at it, your computer makes a copy | Oct 08 12:26 |
| fewa | copyies it to ram, to screen | Oct 08 12:26 |
| oiaohm | The art of data protection. | Oct 08 12:26 |
| fewa | a computer is a massive copying machine | Oct 08 12:26 |
| fewa | "protection" | Oct 08 12:26 |
| fewa | protection from whom? | Oct 08 12:26 |
| fewa | the fans? | Oct 08 12:26 |
| fewa | the users? | Oct 08 12:26 |
| schestowitz | fewa: brains too | Oct 08 12:26 |
| schestowitz | You memorise lyrics | Oct 08 12:26 |
| fewa | yep | Oct 08 12:26 |
| schestowitz | I sentence to infringer inside my skull to death | Oct 08 12:27 |
| fewa | although a number of these things are certainly exempt from the copyright act | Oct 08 12:27 |
| schestowitz | Well.. | Oct 08 12:27 |
| schestowitz | Only cause they can't be controlled | Oct 08 12:27 |
| fewa | as it has to be "transfixed in physical form" | Oct 08 12:27 |
| schestowitz | If people could censor thought, they would | Oct 08 12:27 |
| fewa | well thats what the copyright act says | Oct 08 12:27 |
| schestowitz | And people now mine people's browsing habits | Oct 08 12:27 |
| schestowitz | E.g. phorm | Oct 08 12:27 |
| schestowitz | And other JS in Web pags | Oct 08 12:27 |
| fewa | cc nags violate this | Oct 08 12:27 |
| fewa | but EFF fights back | Oct 08 12:28 |
| schestowitz | TO read people's desires... | Oct 08 12:28 |
| schestowitz | Google queries.. | Oct 08 12:28 |
| fewa | like when they said that a phone ring ing was a "public performance" | Oct 08 12:28 |
| fewa | they had no leg to stand on | Oct 08 12:28 |
| schestowitz | Hehe | Oct 08 12:28 |
| schestowitz | Wait.. | Oct 08 12:28 |
| schestowitz | I have a better one for you | Oct 08 12:28 |
| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?hl=en-GB&q=horses+public+performance+infringer&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8 | Oct 08 12:28 |
| phIRCe | Title: horses public performance infringer - Google Search .::. Size~: 26.11 KB | Oct 08 12:28 |
| fewa | warner CEO says skipping commercials is "stealing" | Oct 08 12:28 |
| schestowitz | http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090327/1113014276.shtml PRS Threatens Woman For Playing Radio To Her Horses Without Paying A Licensing Fee | Oct 08 12:29 |
| fewa | even if you are going to the bathroom | Oct 08 12:29 |
| phIRCe | Title: PRS Threatens Woman For Playing Radio To Her Horses Without Paying A Licensing Fee | Techdirt .::. Size~: 106.15 KB | Oct 08 12:29 |
| schestowitz | cited by "ASCAP Now Claiming That Your Mobile Phone Ringing Is A Public Performance" http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090620/1836345299.shtml | Oct 08 12:29 |
| phIRCe | Title: ASCAP Now Claiming That Your Mobile Phone Ringing Is A Public Performance | Techdirt .::. Size~: 144.65 KB | Oct 08 12:29 |
| schestowitz | fewa: they also say in Big Media that giving for free /anything/ is unamerican | Oct 08 12:29 |
| fewa | "free" | Oct 08 12:29 |
| schestowitz | The country where mother Warner tells you never to share | Oct 08 12:29 |
| fewa | you mean free speech | Oct 08 12:29 |
| schestowitz | Imagine if academia worked like this... | Oct 08 12:30 |
| fewa | the ability to say whatever you want | Oct 08 12:30 |
| schestowitz | Muted lectured | Oct 08 12:30 |
| fewa | even if someone said it before you? | Oct 08 12:30 |
| fewa | now that american | Oct 08 12:30 |
| fewa | *that is | Oct 08 12:30 |
| schestowitz | Everything we say it 'infringing' | Oct 08 12:30 |
| fewa | http://w2.eff.org/effector/HTML/effect15.15.html#II | Oct 08 12:30 |
| schestowitz | People learn to speak by patterns | Oct 08 12:30 |
| schestowitz | Like a network of words | Oct 08 12:30 |
| schestowitz | Seamd together by inpit | Oct 08 12:30 |
| schestowitz | I.e. things we hear or read | Oct 08 12:30 |
| fewa | "Turner CEO Says Bathroom Breaks are Theft" | Oct 08 12:31 |
| schestowitz | HEH | Oct 08 12:31 |
| fewa | "JK: Because of the ad skips.... It's theft. Your contract with the network when you get the show is you're going to watch the spots. Otherwise you couldn't get the show on an ad-supported basis. Any time you skip a commercial or watch the button you're actually stealing the programming. | Oct 08 12:31 |
| fewa | CW: What if you have to go to the bathroom or get up to get a Coke? | Oct 08 12:31 |
| fewa | JK: I guess there's a certain amount of tolerance for going to the bathroom. But if you formalize it and you create a device that skips certain second increments, you've got that only for one reason, unless you go to the bathroom for 30 seconds. They've done that just to make it easy for someone to skip a commercial." | Oct 08 12:31 |
| schestowitz | brb | Oct 08 12:31 |
| schestowitz | I gotta 'steal' (go to the bathroom) | Oct 08 12:31 |
| oiaohm | http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/10/microsoft-mulling-128-bit-versions-of-windows-8-windows-9.ars This has me going why. | Oct 08 12:35 |
| phIRCe | Title: Not a web page! Aborting type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Oct 08 12:35 |
| schestowitz | Vapourware already? | Oct 08 12:35 |
| schestowitz | They know Vista 7 won't sell | Oct 08 12:35 |
| oiaohm | 128 bit wide process. | Oct 08 12:36 |
| oiaohm | processor x86 really why. | Oct 08 12:36 |
| oiaohm | You kinda have to be insane to want a x86 instruction set doing that. | Oct 08 12:36 |
| fewa | wow | Oct 08 12:38 |
| fewa | who can print vaporware like that | Oct 08 12:38 |
| fewa | it doesn't have a shred of credibility (at least to me) | Oct 08 12:38 |
| MinceR | i think that m$ thinking they'll survive to see 128bit CPUs is wishful thinking. | Oct 08 12:38 |
| fewa | 64-bit solves all the problems, no need to increase the pipe | Oct 08 12:39 |
| MinceR | it solves the problems for a while | Oct 08 12:39 |
| fewa | 16-->32 and 32-->64 were both due to memory addressing constraints | Oct 08 12:39 |
| MinceR | not forever :) | Oct 08 12:39 |
| fewa | and not really anything else | Oct 08 12:39 |
| oiaohm | 64 bit processors already have 128 bit processing sections. | Oct 08 12:39 |
| oiaohm | With NUMA we really don't need more than 64 bit for a long time to come. | Oct 08 12:39 |
| MinceR | i thought there was >64bit floating-point already | Oct 08 12:39 |
| fewa | and since 2^64 is a pretty big number there is really no need for a 128-bit addressing processor | Oct 08 12:40 |
| MinceR | also, EPIC might work with >64bit instruction words. | Oct 08 12:40 |
| oiaohm | 2^64 per core. | Oct 08 12:40 |
| fewa | MinceR, of course | Oct 08 12:40 |
| MinceR | (VLIW) | Oct 08 12:40 |
| oiaohm | That is what NUMA gives. | Oct 08 12:40 |
| fewa | but the processors bit width its it's adressing width | Oct 08 12:40 |
| MinceR | (though i don't know if anything will come of that) | Oct 08 12:40 |
| oiaohm | Does a single cpu core need that ammout. | Oct 08 12:40 |
| fewa | to which 64-bit is more than enough | Oct 08 12:40 |
| MinceR | are our OSes/apps ready for NUMA? | Oct 08 12:41 |
| fewa | they thought that with 320bt and we finially reached it, although it took along time | Oct 08 12:41 |
| oiaohm | Linux is NUMA ready. | Oct 08 12:41 |
| oiaohm | High end windows are. | Oct 08 12:41 |
| fewa | and for 64-bit it simply wont happen | Oct 08 12:41 |
| MinceR | is 128bit really so expensive that an architecture change is preferable? | Oct 08 12:41 |
| oiaohm | Apps don't know they are NUMA in most cases. | Oct 08 12:41 |
| fewa | 640bit addressing is big enough | Oct 08 12:41 |
| fewa | *64 | Oct 08 12:41 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: we cannot get the performance out of x86 64 bit chips. | Oct 08 12:42 |
| fewa | physical constraints will prevent us from getting past 2^64 bits | Oct 08 12:42 |
| oiaohm | due to instruction design. | Oct 08 12:42 |
| fewa | on any ISA | Oct 08 12:42 |
| MinceR | if a single app wants to use most of the RAM in a single process with many threads, it will need to be aware of NUMA. | Oct 08 12:42 |
| oiaohm | Going to 128 is not going to make it magically better. | Oct 08 12:42 |
| MinceR | (though i guess that's simply not possible) | Oct 08 12:42 |
| fewa | so pure vaporware | Oct 08 12:42 |
| fewa | now Windows is only fooling the sheep and idiots | Oct 08 12:43 |
| MinceR | (since there's no way for all cores to see the same address space) | Oct 08 12:43 |
| fewa | and those people are not very productive | Oct 08 12:43 |
| oiaohm | Arm can switch between 16 32 and 64 bit instructions in same thread without cpu need to switch away. | Oct 08 12:43 |
| oiaohm | So allowing the instructions in memrory to be as small as able. | Oct 08 12:43 |
| oiaohm | Yet high peforming as well. | Oct 08 12:44 |
| oiaohm | Basically X86 design is crud. | Oct 08 12:44 |
| fewa | at least someone gets it http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/10/microsoft-mulling-128-bit-versions-of-windows-8-windows-9.ars?comments=1&comment_id=488000671041 | Oct 08 12:44 |
| phIRCe | Title: Not a web page! Aborting type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Oct 08 12:44 |
| fewa | phIRCe, your wrong | Oct 08 12:44 |
| fewa | but there are alot of sheep in there | Oct 08 12:46 |
| schestowitz | http://www.egovmonitor.com/node/29337 | Oct 08 12:46 |
| phIRCe | Title: eGov monitor - A Policy Dialogue Platform | Promoting Better Governance .::. Size~: 9.37 KB | Oct 08 12:46 |
| MinceR | whose wrong? :> | Oct 08 12:48 |
| fewa | the bot | Oct 08 12:50 |
| fewa | <phIRCe> Title: Not a web page! Aborting type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Oct 08 12:50 |
| oiaohm | Did you notice the windows 8 release dates fewa | Oct 08 12:50 |
| oiaohm | 2011 and 2012 | Oct 08 12:51 |
| oiaohm | Basically windows 7 would be barely starting deployment and they are talking about releasing another one. | Oct 08 12:51 |
| fewa | "in face of stiff competition, evangalism switches immediately to the next version" | Oct 08 12:52 |
| fewa | or something like that | Oct 08 12:52 |
| oiaohm | Stiff is not the word. | Oct 08 12:53 |
| oiaohm | Gcc that has crippled performance on Linux for years is getting fixed. | Oct 08 12:53 |
| oiaohm | I guess you have not played with development trunk gcc with lto yet fewa | Oct 08 12:54 |
| schestowitz | strong, not stiff | Oct 08 12:54 |
| Adus | Performance is not the reason people don't use Linux | Oct 08 12:55 |
| schestowitz | "In the face of strong competition, Evangelism's focus may shift immediately to the next version of the same technology, however. Indeed, Phase 1 (Evangelism Starts) for version x+1 may start as soon as this Final Release of version X." | Oct 08 12:55 |
| fewa | thar we go | Oct 08 12:55 |
| fewa | you would think Microsoft would try to develop a new playbook | Oct 08 12:55 |
| fewa | its so friggen predictable | Oct 08 12:55 |
| oiaohm | Adus: it is part of it. | Oct 08 12:56 |
| oiaohm | Items like firefox running like a snail don't help Linux. | Oct 08 12:56 |
| Adus | No. Linux is plenty fast enough. Your average home user doesn't not use Linux because of performance | Oct 08 12:56 |
| Adus | They don't use it because of compatability and ease of use. People find it confusing. | Oct 08 12:57 |
| fewa | 50% of windows computers run like snails because they are rooted | Oct 08 12:57 |
| fewa | and ripe with malware, spambots, | Oct 08 12:57 |
| fewa | because organized crime is controling those computers | Oct 08 12:57 |
| Adus | If everyone moved to Linux or Mac OS the exact same thing would happen unfortunately. The moral of the story? People are bastards and will exploit a vulnerability to make personal gains. | Oct 08 12:57 |
| fewa | Adus, hahahahaha | Oct 08 12:58 |
| oiaohm | Not really Adus | Oct 08 12:58 |
| fewa | have you installed software on Linux Adus ? | Oct 08 12:58 |
| Adus | Yes. | Oct 08 12:58 |
| oiaohm | Running most users as equal to root user don't help Adus | Oct 08 12:58 |
| Adus | oiaohm: And you expect a home user to understand that? They will click yes to anything. | Oct 08 12:58 |
| oiaohm | Then leaving back doors around items like UAC don't help either. | Oct 08 12:58 |
| Adus | Computers are vulnerable because people are idiots | Oct 08 12:58 |
| oiaohm | Linux distrubtions have uses installing from package management. | Oct 08 12:59 |
| oiaohm | Su and Sudo under Linux are marked from destruction due to there secuirty risks. | Oct 08 12:59 |
| oiaohm | Replaced with something a little more careful. | Oct 08 13:00 |
| Adus | I don't have anything against Linux or Mac OS X. I just think it's a bit naive to say they are fundamentally more secure, when most security breaches are down to the user, not the OS | Oct 08 13:00 |
| fewa | Adus, http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/software-installation-in-linux-is-difficult/ | Oct 08 13:00 |
| phIRCe | Title: Ubuntucat » Blog Archive » Software installation in Linux is difficult .::. Size~: 93.17 KB | Oct 08 13:00 |
| Adus | I didn't say installing software on Linux was difficult | Oct 08 13:00 |
| fewa | that sums it up pretty succinctly | Oct 08 13:00 |
| fewa | you have to read it | Oct 08 13:00 |
| Adus | I said it wasn't compatibile. Which is true. | Oct 08 13:00 |
| oiaohm | Linux discoruages installing from non trusted sources Adus | Oct 08 13:00 |
| fewa | windows promotes it | Oct 08 13:01 |
| fewa | extinsively | Oct 08 13:01 |
| Adus | oiaohm: But it can and will be done. | Oct 08 13:01 |
| oiaohm | Difference here most Linux users don't Adus | Oct 08 13:01 |
| Adus | Yes, but everyone moved to Linux, every average hoem user, they would. | Oct 08 13:01 |
| oiaohm | User base treats applications differently. | Oct 08 13:01 |
| Adus | Most people don't understand the inner "magical" workings of their OS | Oct 08 13:01 |
| oiaohm | Because they are trained to treat it differently. | Oct 08 13:01 |
| Adus | and they don't care. | Oct 08 13:01 |
| fewa | THat link only takes 1 minute | Oct 08 13:01 |
| Adus | Which is fair enough. | Oct 08 13:01 |
| fewa | but it is very telling | Oct 08 13:01 |
| oiaohm | Windows users are taught to click and download from anywhere. | Oct 08 13:02 |
| oiaohm | And pray. | Oct 08 13:02 |
| oiaohm | So they are sitting ducks. | Oct 08 13:02 |
| Adus | No they aren't, they just do. "Oh yes, I want that" and do it | Oct 08 13:02 |
| oiaohm | Untrain that and windows risks drop massively. | Oct 08 13:02 |
| oiaohm | and end up dead Adus | Oct 08 13:02 |
| Adus | fewa: I didn't say it was difficult to install Software on linux. I said that it was not very compatible. I also said people find Linux confusing, which is also true. | Oct 08 13:02 |
| oiaohm | They are not trained about software. Windows does not train them about software. | Oct 08 13:03 |
| fewa | Adus, you didn't go to the web page http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/software-installation-in-linux-is-difficult/ | Oct 08 13:03 |
| phIRCe | Title: Ubuntucat » Blog Archive » Software installation in Linux is difficult .::. Size~: 93.17 KB | Oct 08 13:03 |
| Adus | I did go to it | Oct 08 13:03 |
| Adus | and read it | Oct 08 13:03 |
| schestowitz | "I also said people find Linux confusing, which is also true." | Oct 08 13:03 |
| oiaohm | Linux world treats it as a mortal sin to run as root. | Oct 08 13:03 |
| schestowitz | Sounds like a true marketing puppet | Oct 08 13:03 |
| oiaohm | Windows world treats it as fine to run as Adminstrator. | Oct 08 13:03 |
| schestowitz | Like Best Buy trianing matrial from Microsoft Corp | Oct 08 13:03 |
| oiaohm | You have a major culture problem Adus | Oct 08 13:03 |
| fewa | Windows promotes running a computer as admin, and instaling tons of software from untrusted sources | Oct 08 13:03 |
| Adus | No, I have a major realism problem. | Oct 08 13:04 |
| fewa | and software which is propritary and cant be audited | Oct 08 13:04 |
| schestowitz | Adus: ever used Linux? | Oct 08 13:04 |
| oiaohm | Linux numbers have increased | Oct 08 13:04 |
| fewa | Adus, Linux is read | Oct 08 13:04 |
| schestowitz | As in, _used_? | Oct 08 13:04 |
| fewa | *real | Oct 08 13:04 |
| Adus | schestowitz: Yes, regulalry | Oct 08 13:04 |
| schestowitz | Not for a few minuted | Oct 08 13:04 |
| oiaohm | But numbers of users running as root has not Adus | Oct 08 13:04 |
| fewa | while Vista 7 has to go back to root | Oct 08 13:04 |
| oiaohm | Simple little things alter risks masively Adus | Oct 08 13:04 |
| schestowitz | http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/IRIN/6a9cdeaac5f38fa6c99e7d94b9088b61.htm | Oct 08 13:04 |
| fewa | well, actually it pretend to not go back, in the most anti-competitive way possible http://www.pretentiousname.com/misc/win7_uac_whitelist2.html | Oct 08 13:05 |
| phIRCe | Title: Windows 7 UAC whitelist: Code-injection Issue (and more) .::. Size~: 76.36 KB | Oct 08 13:05 |
| oiaohm | Adus: 2 secuirty systems. One application can ask if they are allowed and find out. One application cannot ask and if does the wrong thing gets killed. What one is less likely to be attacked. | Oct 08 13:06 |
| fewa | a windows computer can be rooted quickly and efficiently, and as users are trained to run untrusted and unaudited code on a regular basis, as administrator, it is commonplace | Oct 08 13:06 |
| fewa | this is why organized crime around rooted windows boxes is so great | Oct 08 13:06 |
| Adus | You're not listening to what I'm saying. I'm not arguing that windows is more secure. I'm simply explaining why most people don't use Linux. | Oct 08 13:06 |
| fewa | Adus, why does calc.exe have to run with admin priviliages in Vista 7? | Oct 08 13:07 |
| Adus | it doesn't... | Oct 08 13:07 |
| fewa | elevated mode | Oct 08 13:07 |
| oiaohm | Most of the people I move to Linux are sick of being infected Adus | Oct 08 13:07 |
| Adus | oiaohm: Which is fine. But that isn't the majority of your average home user | Oct 08 13:08 |
| fewa | _yes it is_ | Oct 08 13:08 |
| oiaohm | So far it is home users Adus | Oct 08 13:08 |
| fewa | 50% of windows computers are infected | Oct 08 13:08 |
| Adus | You my friend are deluded. If you think people are just suddenly going to move. | Oct 08 13:08 |
| oiaohm | They just want there machines to work and not have to worry about it. | Oct 08 13:08 |
| fewa | the internet is fulll of HOW DO I GET RID OF THIS VIRUS | Oct 08 13:08 |
| oiaohm | I did not say suddenly. | Oct 08 13:08 |
| fewa | its has spawned a _HUGE_ business around pluggin holes in a leaky boat | Oct 08 13:08 |
| Adus | Despite the problems with windows (and there are problems with Linux and Mac OS X as well) people will continue to use it because they are used to it. It's naive to think that if everyone does eventually switch, there won't be similar malware problems on other platforms | Oct 08 13:09 |
| oiaohm | Its also that wine is getting to the point it can run most of the old games they own. | Oct 08 13:09 |
| fewa | this is not small chicken | Oct 08 13:09 |
| fewa | its massive organized crime | Oct 08 13:09 |
| Adus | Because at the end of the day, people are stupid | Oct 08 13:09 |
| fewa | centered around windows-running computers | Oct 08 13:09 |
| fewa | Adus, I don't think they think of themselves in that light | Oct 08 13:09 |
| oiaohm | Adus: Windows makes them stupid. | Oct 08 13:09 |
| Adus | But that focus would shift if most people moved to another platform fewa | Oct 08 13:09 |
| oiaohm | You try cd burning from a limited account on windows without altering anything Adus | Oct 08 13:09 |
| fewa | yes, there would be more focus on sane policies | Oct 08 13:10 |
| oiaohm | Linux it works. | Oct 08 13:10 |
| Adus | and they are stupid, sorry, but it's true. | Oct 08 13:10 |
| Adus | and it has nothing to do with windows. people simply don't care, which I think is fair enough. | Oct 08 13:10 |
| oiaohm | Stupid person only raised rights if they have need Adus | Oct 08 13:10 |
| fewa | Adus, thats the myth the rules tell themselves | Oct 08 13:10 |
| Adus | They aren't interested in how their PC works | Oct 08 13:10 |
| fewa | but they constantly doubt it | Oct 08 13:10 |
| oiaohm | Otherwise they are too stupid to worry about it Adus | Oct 08 13:10 |
| fewa | and fear that it isn't true | Oct 08 13:10 |
| schestowitz | More of the myths Microsoft spreads about Linux being "hard": http://media.www.carolinianonline.com/media/storage/paper301/news/2009/10/06/Life/Alternatives.To.The.Programs.You.Know-3795560.shtml | Oct 08 13:10 |
| fewa | *rulers | Oct 08 13:10 |
| phIRCe | Title: OpenDNS .::. Size~: 1.99 KB | Oct 08 13:11 |
| oiaohm | That is the problem windows puts people who are stupid in a place that running as admin is the only way they get get normal like programs to work. | Oct 08 13:11 |
| Adus | I envisage a situation in the near future when Linux is as easy to use as Windows, but it isn't yet. And I question whether or not it would actually be more secure than Windows if all the malware writers were targeting it. | Oct 08 13:11 |
| fewa | it also is designed specifically to make users dependent | Oct 08 13:11 |
| Adus | Mac OS X is a great example of a Unix based OS which works and is easy to use | Oct 08 13:11 |
| fewa | its designed to not tell users what is going on so they have some hope of fixing things | Oct 08 13:12 |
| oiaohm | It is more secure because it don't force people to be root.. | Oct 08 13:12 |
| oiaohm | Mac OS X has also a low infection rate. | Oct 08 13:12 |
| fewa | OSX is actually very insecure | Oct 08 13:12 |
| oiaohm | For its complete life. | Oct 08 13:12 |
| fewa | lots of holes | Oct 08 13:12 |
| Adus | oiaohm: But if an app wants to be root, the user will say yes. | Oct 08 13:12 |
| schestowitz | What utter tripe I see here. | Oct 08 13:12 |
| schestowitz | ALso the myths about Windows dominance | Oct 08 13:12 |
| oiaohm | Again not true Adus | Oct 08 13:12 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft gives WIndows for free now | Oct 08 13:12 |
| oiaohm | How often do you get asked for root under Linux. | Oct 08 13:12 |
| schestowitz | It won't make enough money to build WIndows | Oct 08 13:12 |
| oiaohm | Users go days and days without being asked Adus | Oct 08 13:12 |
| fewa | Windows is dead | Oct 08 13:12 |
| schestowitz | Linux is so attractive that Microsoft gives Windows for free | Oct 08 13:12 |
| schestowitz | E.g. in netbooks | Oct 08 13:12 |
| oiaohm | So it is a strange event to them Adus | Oct 08 13:13 |
| schestowitz | And also commits some crimes there vs Linux | Oct 08 13:13 |
| schestowitz | Like collusion, kickbacks, etc | Oct 08 13:13 |
| fewa | schestowitz, they pay for people to use windows | Oct 08 13:13 |
| fewa | bribes | Oct 08 13:13 |
| Adus | Windows is not dead, and if you truly believe that you've truly lost the plot. | Oct 08 13:13 |
| schestowitz | fewa: Windows is not dead, it's dying | Oct 08 13:13 |
| schestowitz | It can't generate profit | Oct 08 13:13 |
| oiaohm | Goal is to make it almost never under Linux Adus. | Oct 08 13:13 |
| schestowitz | And it's not backward compat | Oct 08 13:13 |
| schestowitz | People stick with XP due to that. | Oct 08 13:13 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft's Ballmer sees Windows 7 effect on PC market muted http://www.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idUSTRE5961UX20091007 | Oct 08 13:13 |
| fewa | its dead in this sense http://www.paulgraham.com/microsoft.html | Oct 08 13:13 |
| phIRCe | Title: Microsoft is Dead .::. Size~: 16.09 KB | Oct 08 13:13 |
| oiaohm | For that very reason ask user too many times to press OK they will make mistakes Adus | Oct 08 13:13 |
| schestowitz | @ Adus: here's your cEO admitting Vista 7 won't succeed | Oct 08 13:14 |
| schestowitz | He too knows | Oct 08 13:14 |
| oiaohm | The failure of UAC was asking too much. | Oct 08 13:14 |
| fewa | no innovation happens on the win32 platform | Oct 08 13:14 |
| fewa | -none- | Oct 08 13:14 |
| schestowitz | While his marketing bunnnies send another message | Oct 08 13:14 |
| schestowitz | That's their job | Oct 08 13:14 |
| schestowitz | Google is worth 75% of MSFT | Oct 08 13:14 |
| fewa | and the microsoft gospel speaks that work must be based on the win APIs | Oct 08 13:14 |
| schestowitz | Within just 11 years | Oct 08 13:14 |
| oiaohm | Adus: basically its myth that windows is targeted just because of market share. | Oct 08 13:14 |
| fewa | this is its death knell | Oct 08 13:14 |
| Adus | oiaohm: I disagree. | Oct 08 13:15 |
| fewa | and was already evident in April 2007 when that was written | Oct 08 13:15 |
| oiaohm | Its not jsut because Adus | Oct 08 13:15 |
| fewa | it was targeted in the 90s | Oct 08 13:15 |
| schestowitz | Adus: of course you disagree | Oct 08 13:15 |
| fewa | but things have changed | Oct 08 13:15 |
| schestowitz | Your career depends on it | Oct 08 13:15 |
| oiaohm | Do a simple study Adus how many home users running as admin. | Oct 08 13:15 |
| fewa | operating systems are commodities | Oct 08 13:15 |
| oiaohm | Under Windows. | Oct 08 13:15 |
| schestowitz | "So, Mr Ballmer, is Microsoft dead? No? I didn't expect you to say so." | Oct 08 13:15 |
| oiaohm | The number is way too high. | Oct 08 13:15 |
| schestowitz | Office suites are a commodity too now | Oct 08 13:16 |
| Adus | I'm all for competition. I just question the claims people make about Linux. | Oct 08 13:16 |
| oiaohm | Notice distributions like Ubuntu don't allow you to login directly to an admin class account. | Oct 08 13:16 |
| fewa | 99% can be rooted effortlessly by viri | Oct 08 13:16 |
| schestowitz | There are online suites, ODF, OOo, etc. | Oct 08 13:16 |
| schestowitz | The cash cows have issue | Oct 08 13:16 |
| oiaohm | Or others give you locked wall papers and other things Adus | Oct 08 13:16 |
| schestowitz | *ssues | Oct 08 13:16 |
| oiaohm | To discourage users doing it Adus | Oct 08 13:16 |
| schestowitz | Sooner or later they'll be debt aggregators like xbox360 | Oct 08 13:16 |
| oiaohm | Preventive measures. | Oct 08 13:16 |
| fewa | attempt to make it Microsoft's computer | Oct 08 13:16 |
| fewa | assuming the user is a criminal | Oct 08 13:17 |
| fewa | guilty until prooven innovent | Oct 08 13:17 |
| oiaohm | Linux low infection rare is partly due to years and years and years building up a culture of preventive measures. | Oct 08 13:17 |
| Adus | The Linux development community has been criticised at times for being complacent about security vulnerabiltiies which have been discovered. | Oct 08 13:17 |
| schestowitz | A Danish firm said that 99.8% of Windows is ready for hijack | Oct 08 13:17 |
| schestowitz | Secunia | Oct 08 13:18 |
| oiaohm | On time of responce windows has been criticised worse Adus | Oct 08 13:18 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: unix rather | Oct 08 13:18 |
| schestowitz | Linux just went after UNIX coattails | Oct 08 13:18 |
| oiaohm | Over 10 years to patch some things from MS Adus. | Oct 08 13:18 |
| schestowitz | SUN to be precise | Oct 08 13:18 |
| schestowitz | In Linus' case | Oct 08 13:18 |
| schestowitz | And Murdock | Oct 08 13:18 |
| schestowitz | GNU is a GNU is Not UNIX | Oct 08 13:18 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: Linux distributions step it up with nasty wall papers and the like. | Oct 08 13:19 |
| schestowitz | Replication of UNIX commands | Oct 08 13:19 |
| oiaohm | but yes its built on some of Unix good ideas. | Oct 08 13:19 |
| Adus | oiaohm: I dunno. I've read reports showing Microsoft are usually pretty quick at patching serious flaws. Either way, that's not the point. I'm not saying Linux is bad, and I think competition is only a good thing for the consumer. | Oct 08 13:19 |
| Adus | But I question some of the claims which have been made about it | Oct 08 13:19 |
| fewa | and _STANDARDS_ | Oct 08 13:19 |
| schestowitz | "I'd put the Linux phenomenon really as threat No. 1." --Steve Ballmer, 2001 | Oct 08 13:19 |
| fewa | something the windows world thinks are purely to corrupt | Oct 08 13:19 |
| Adus | Getting the nvidia drivers to work on my Gentoo installation at home was a fucking *nightmare* | Oct 08 13:19 |
| Adus | and I'm a programmer | Oct 08 13:20 |
| fewa | or the failing empire | Oct 08 13:20 |
| schestowitz | Adus: haha. | Oct 08 13:20 |
| schestowitz | Quick? | Oct 08 13:20 |
| oiaohm | Adus: Linux adverage patch time is less than 14 days | Oct 08 13:20 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft ignores flaws | Oct 08 13:20 |
| schestowitz | Until the attacks begin | Oct 08 13:20 |
| schestowitz | And then it takes them weeks | Oct 08 13:20 |
| oiaohm | deployment in about 45 completely. | Oct 08 13:20 |
| schestowitz | Under attacks | Oct 08 13:20 |
| schestowitz | Adus: gentoo, eh? | Oct 08 13:20 |
| schestowitz | You look for trouble | Oct 08 13:20 |
| oiaohm | And a lot of flaws marked as critical on linux have never been exploited Adus | Oct 08 13:20 |
| schestowitz | I love it when Linux bashers try to hardest distros | Oct 08 13:21 |
| Adus | That's true of windows as well, and every other OS | Oct 08 13:21 |
| oiaohm | Windows flaws are mostly marked critical after a wild exploit exists Adus | Oct 08 13:21 |
| schestowitz | I've seen AstroTurfers going under names like "Gentoo users" | Oct 08 13:21 |
| oiaohm | Then documents normal turn up that the flaw has existed for years. | Oct 08 13:21 |
| Adus | If the flaw is reported by a responsibile security firm, it's rarely released until it's been patched. | Oct 08 13:21 |
| schestowitz | And the HTTTP headers show them using "Windows" | Oct 08 13:21 |
| oiaohm | This is the difference Adus | Oct 08 13:21 |
| schestowitz | They try to pretend to be of the other side just to bash and cause trouble | Oct 08 13:21 |
| schestowitz | Like Lund Stocholm | Oct 08 13:21 |
| oiaohm | It is rare to find documents of flaws existing in Linux that have existed known for years. | Oct 08 13:22 |
| Adus | I'm not trying to bash linux schestowitz. I use Gentoo because I like it, and like the customisation options and as a programmer who is interested in writing cross-platform and standards compliant code it's a great OS to test stuff out on. | Oct 08 13:22 |
| schestowitz | If they are known, the public knows them | Oct 08 13:22 |
| Adus | But it was hell to get those drivers working. | Oct 08 13:22 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft waits until attacks begin cause the public saw the bugs | Oct 08 13:22 |
| schestowitz | And it PATCHES SILENTYL | Oct 08 13:23 |
| schestowitz | I.e. Microsoft lies about number of flaws | Oct 08 13:23 |
| oiaohm | That is also documented. | Oct 08 13:23 |
| schestowitz | It just fixed the bugs and hopes nobody will notice the different (in the binaries of course) | Oct 08 13:23 |
| oiaohm | Another thing that is rare in the Linux world. | Oct 08 13:23 |
| oiaohm | But bugs are over reported compared to MS. | Oct 08 13:23 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft was established on webs of lis | Oct 08 13:23 |
| schestowitz | *lies | Oct 08 13:23 |
| schestowitz | So I doubt they have much guilt | Oct 08 13:24 |
| schestowitz | Since the early days | Oct 08 13:24 |
| oiaohm | Any buffer overflow bug no matter where it is in Linux gets reported as a secuirty flaw critical even if it cannot be exlploited Adus | Oct 08 13:24 |
| Adus | You're making out that I'm only interested in defending Microsoft, which is simply untrue. I'm trying to be balanced. | Oct 08 13:24 |
| schestowitz | "If you can’t make it good, at least make it look good." --Bill Gates, Microsoft | Oct 08 13:24 |
| oiaohm | The problem is Microsoft and Linux use two different sheets to rate secuirty flaws Adus | Oct 08 13:24 |
| schestowitz | Adus: that's another Turfer defense | Oct 08 13:24 |
| schestowitz | "I'm just adding balance" | Oct 08 13:24 |
| Adus | No, I'm not adding balance. I'm trying to be balanced. | Oct 08 13:25 |
| schestowitz | "Don't get me wrong, I use Gentoo and all, but...." | Oct 08 13:25 |
| oiaohm | There should be a standard for rating secuirty flaws but there is not Adus | Oct 08 13:25 |
| fewa | I kinda wish that hidden defend non-disclaimable went through | Oct 08 13:25 |
| Adus | That is probably true oiaohm. | Oct 08 13:25 |
| fewa | but perhaps with clearer language | Oct 08 13:25 |
| fewa | just means bug reports have to be public | Oct 08 13:25 |
| Adus | Standards are always a good thing. | Oct 08 13:25 |
| oiaohm | That is the problem Adus you are not compareing apples with apples when comparing windows bug numbers. | Oct 08 13:25 |
| fewa | Adus is a lier | Oct 08 13:26 |
| oiaohm | Linux distributions cover a broard range of applications as well. | Oct 08 13:26 |
| fewa | *liar | Oct 08 13:26 |
| fewa | he has been streching the truth for hours | Oct 08 13:26 |
| fewa | its just decietful | Oct 08 13:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] A closer look at Kubuntu Karmic Koala Alpha 5 and KDE 4.3.1 and Ubuntu Karmic Koala Beta 1: http://tinyurl.com/ydpvng3 | Oct 08 13:27 | |
| phIRCe | Title: OSGEEX: A closer look at Kubuntu Karmic Koala and KDE 4.3.1 .::. Size~: 74.63 KB | Oct 08 13:27 |
| Adus | I haven't stretched the truth once, I've been arguing a point of view. Which for about the 20th time I will explain, I question the claims made about other platforms. | Oct 08 13:27 |
| oiaohm | Like Linux kernel covers most Linux drivers in existance. Adus | Oct 08 13:27 |
| schestowitz | fewa: waste of time, IMHO | Oct 08 13:27 |
| fewa | schestowitz, agreed | Oct 08 13:27 |
| schestowitz | It's like in Daily Kos when Bush fans enter | Oct 08 13:27 |
| oiaohm | Secuirty bug lists on windows don't list windows third party driver flaws. Adus | Oct 08 13:27 |
| schestowitz | They get labeled trolls | Oct 08 13:27 |
| oiaohm | It just gets worse and worse the more you try to blance the numbers Adus | Oct 08 13:27 |
| fewa | whenever you enter a argument solely to push a point | Oct 08 13:27 |
| fewa | at any cost, at any strech of logic | Oct 08 13:28 |
| oiaohm | In the end you find that MS numbers are really under accounting. Adus | Oct 08 13:28 |
| Adus | Maybe so oiaohm, but that proves nothing. | Oct 08 13:28 |
| oiaohm | Its like the recent buffer overflow exploit. | Oct 08 13:28 |
| oiaohm | Major secuirty panic. | Oct 08 13:28 |
| oiaohm | Most distributions not effectied | Oct 08 13:28 |
| Adus | I bet they aren't under-accounted to the point that Windows share is bigger. And until such a time that 2 platforms have equal share, it's impossible to know which is more secure. | Oct 08 13:29 |
| oiaohm | why that application was built with anti buffer flow code. | Oct 08 13:29 |
| oiaohm | So there was no critical need to patch. | Oct 08 13:29 |
| Adus | I will reiteration, I am *not* claiming that windows is more secure, I'm questioning whether Linux really is. The fact is, I don't know, and neither do you. | Oct 08 13:29 |
| oiaohm | Yet Linux distributions got beat up for not shippign the patch. | Oct 08 13:29 |
| oiaohm | It was not going to change the risk in any way. | Oct 08 13:29 |
| oiaohm | Problem is Adus I do know. | Oct 08 13:30 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Thanks to @schestowitz for requesting to write the review ;-) Ubuntu Karmic Koala rocks, Vista7 RC1 sucks! | Oct 08 13:30 | |
| oiaohm | I clean up infected systems Linux and Windows. | Oct 08 13:30 |
| oiaohm | As well as audit them. | Oct 08 13:30 |
| oiaohm | Yes Linux is not past being attacked. But most attacks fail. | Oct 08 13:31 |
| Adus | You can't possibly know that for fact. Anecdotal experience is hardly balanced. You're probably right, but it's a very big claim to make when there i really no evidence. | Oct 08 13:31 |
| oiaohm | Cert clean up reports will tell you the same thing Adus | Oct 08 13:31 |
| oiaohm | Over and over again. | Oct 08 13:31 |
| oiaohm | Most breaches are caused by systems being altered from defaults for remote access under Linux and not using port knocking to hide the acces point. | Oct 08 13:32 |
| oiaohm | Single packet port knocking. | Oct 08 13:33 |
| Adus | Yes, I'm familiar with the concept, I'm a Network programmer :) | Oct 08 13:33 |
| oiaohm | That is the most common breach. | Oct 08 13:33 |
| oiaohm | Funny enough on windows servers rdp is also one of the most common breach points. | Oct 08 13:34 |
| oiaohm | Yet windows does not have provided packages for single packet port knocking to hide it. | Oct 08 13:34 |
| Adus | Yes, that sort of service is always going to be a vulnerable area | Oct 08 13:35 |
| oiaohm | If attacker cannot find it they cannot attack it. | Oct 08 13:35 |
| fewa | oiaohm, actually they can | Oct 08 13:35 |
| oiaohm | Very simple defence idea works wonders. | Oct 08 13:35 |
| fewa | but it certainly helps | Oct 08 13:35 |
| oiaohm | Finding it is not exactly simple fewa | Oct 08 13:36 |
| Adus | Well, if someone really wants to get into a machine, they probably will | Oct 08 13:36 |
| fewa | but out of 65000 ports, certainly possible | Oct 08 13:36 |
| fewa | Adus, false | Oct 08 13:36 |
| Adus | fewa: Bullshit. Given enough time and resources you can entry to any system | Oct 08 13:37 |
| oiaohm | Particular thinking single packet port knocking is a one off token fewa | Oct 08 13:37 |
| fewa | Adus, bullshit | Oct 08 13:37 |
| oiaohm | Not some random block of data fewa | Oct 08 13:37 |
| oiaohm | Bullshit Adus | Oct 08 13:37 |
| fewa | unless you have physical access | Oct 08 13:37 |
| oiaohm | MS Bullshit. | Oct 08 13:37 |
| fewa | thats the biggest MS lie | Oct 08 13:37 |
| fewa | it is spread so think | Oct 08 13:37 |
| oiaohm | I have systems that there are no flaws. | Oct 08 13:37 |
| fewa | they train people that computers are inherantly insecure | Oct 08 13:37 |
| fewa | is a outrageous lie | Oct 08 13:37 |
| Adus | oiaohm: That you currently no of. | Oct 08 13:37 |
| Adus | know* | Oct 08 13:38 |
| oiaohm | You could spend any ammount of resources you like on them and you would never break it. | Oct 08 13:38 |
| fewa | its like preemptive strikes | Oct 08 13:38 |
| oiaohm | They are simple Adus | Oct 08 13:38 |
| fewa | its fear-mongering | Oct 08 13:38 |
| fewa | permanent state of ware | Oct 08 13:38 |
| oiaohm | Simple little web server. | Oct 08 13:38 |
| Adus | There's still likely to be a flaw somewhere oiaohm | Oct 08 13:38 |
| fewa | permanent state of paychecks for those who create the fear | Oct 08 13:38 |
| oiaohm | Code 100 percent audited to asm level. | Oct 08 13:38 |
| oiaohm | There is no flaw Adus | Oct 08 13:38 |
| oiaohm | You don't store any data in them. | Oct 08 13:38 |
| oiaohm | and the bugger is 100 percent rom. | Oct 08 13:39 |
| fewa | those that create the fear are guilty for the violence it creates | Oct 08 13:39 |
| oiaohm | So even if you want to inject there is no way in hell Adus | Oct 08 13:39 |
| fewa | guilty guilty guilty | Oct 08 13:39 |
| oiaohm | PPC chips don't need ram Adus | Oct 08 13:39 |
| trmanco | haha | Oct 08 13:39 |
| trmanco | http://www.builderau.com.au/news/soa/Study-Windows-7-doesn-t-boot-faster/0,339028227,339298949,00.htm?feed=rss | Oct 08 13:39 |
| phIRCe | Title: Study: Windows 7 doesn't boot faster - News - Builder AU .::. Size~: 57.8 KB | Oct 08 13:39 |
| oiaohm | You can build 100 percent unbreakable systems Adus | Oct 08 13:40 |
| fewa | trmanco, nice, facts are always a relief | Oct 08 13:40 |
| trmanco | "Iolo Technologies, which sells PC tune-up software, said its lab unit found that a brand-new machine running Windows 7 takes a minute and 34 seconds to become usable" | Oct 08 13:40 |
| oiaohm | Its just spending the time and resources to do it Adus | Oct 08 13:40 |
| Adus | oiaohm: I am aware of this, that still doesn't mean there is no vulnerability anywhere in the whole system. There is no way you can know that. | Oct 08 13:40 |
| trmanco | same old same old windows | Oct 08 13:40 |
| oiaohm | Reason why gcc is being improved Adus | Oct 08 13:40 |
| fewa | fear and loathing in redmond | Oct 08 13:40 |
| oiaohm | So compliers prevent a lot to start off with Adus | Oct 08 13:41 |
| oiaohm | Then auditing software on top. | Oct 08 13:41 |
| oiaohm | Lot of vulnerabilitys are created by the same set of 12 coder errors. | Oct 08 13:41 |
| Adus | Oh, I don't doubt the system is secure, but the likelyhood is there is going to be one flaw somewhere, even if it's tiny. So with the right resources and infinite time, someone will find it. | Oct 08 13:41 |
| trmanco | "As is often the case with Windows, Iolo found that things only get worse over time. It found that a three-month-old machine can take up to a minute longer to boot, or two minutes and 34 seconds. Windows 7 did outperform Vista at the three-month and six-month marks, Iolo said, but it generally "trailed the older version significantly" in its boot-up tests. " | Oct 08 13:41 |
| oiaohm | the odds go down as the complexity of the system is reduced Adus | Oct 08 13:42 |
| fewa | Adus, bullshit | Oct 08 13:42 |
| *TheMadHatter_ (i=63ee03e6@gateway/web/freenode/x-mwuhpbmzisezijqp) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 13:42 | |
| fewa | fear and loathing from the mouth of shit | Oct 08 13:42 |
| schestowitz | Hey, TheMadHatter_ | Oct 08 13:42 |
| oiaohm | No one really spends the resoruces to build a 100 percetn audited system. Adus | Oct 08 13:42 |
| oiaohm | Most of the time. | Oct 08 13:42 |
| TheMadHatter_ | morning | Oct 08 13:42 |
| oiaohm | If you do spend the resources you can be sure of the code compliers and everything Adus | Oct 08 13:43 |
| Adus | fewa: If you truly believe a system is uncompromisable that's pretty arrogant, naive and way too complacent. | Oct 08 13:43 |
| oiaohm | So not leaving tiny flaws. | Oct 08 13:43 |
| oiaohm | But time and cost of that is massive. | Oct 08 13:43 |
| oiaohm | Reason why its only done on small system types Adus | Oct 08 13:43 |
| Adus | oiaohm: And it's still error prone. People make mistakes, and no software can find any flaw. | Oct 08 13:43 |
| Adus | every flaw* | Oct 08 13:43 |
| fewa | Adus, you love shoving words in my mouth | Oct 08 13:44 |
| oiaohm | Funny enough you are wrong Adus | Oct 08 13:44 |
| oiaohm | What is fuzzy testing abotu Adus | Oct 08 13:44 |
| oiaohm | If you have long enough you can do what is called brute force testing. | Oct 08 13:44 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Another code quality discussion? | Oct 08 13:44 |
| fewa | Windows is insecure _by design_ adus | Oct 08 13:44 |
| fewa | http://www.pretentiousname.com/misc/win7_uac_whitelist2.html | Oct 08 13:44 |
| oiaohm | Where you run every possiablity against it. | Oct 08 13:44 |
| phIRCe | Title: Windows 7 UAC whitelist: Code-injection Issue (and more) .::. Size~: 76.36 KB | Oct 08 13:44 |
| fewa | specifically designed to be insecure | Oct 08 13:45 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Study: Windows 7 doesn't boot faster - News - Builder AU http://post.ly/7idx | Oct 08 13:45 | |
| oiaohm | Remember I said its a resources issue Adus | Oct 08 13:45 |
| Adus | oiaohm: In every situation the OS can be under etc etc | Oct 08 13:45 |
| Adus | the permutations are immesense | Oct 08 13:45 |
| oiaohm | Yes it is Adus | Oct 08 13:45 |
| oiaohm | Reason why its normally only done for non complex systems. | Oct 08 13:45 |
| Adus | and I've seen no software which can do a test in every possible situation and state. | Oct 08 13:45 |
| oiaohm | So you have never had to build systems that are life and death Adus | Oct 08 13:46 |
| oiaohm | Were part of the design process is testing everything. And you must test everything. | Oct 08 13:46 |
| TheMadHatter_ | And of course we know that Microsoft's automated error checking system is defective. | Oct 08 13:46 |
| Adus | Systems still fail. | Oct 08 13:46 |
| Adus | even systems which are "life and death" | Oct 08 13:47 |
| oiaohm | That is called building in reducancy. | Oct 08 13:47 |
| Adus | I know, but they do fail. | Oct 08 13:47 |
| oiaohm | Not due to being breached. | Oct 08 13:47 |
| oiaohm | Normally hardware failing. | Oct 08 13:47 |
| oiaohm | That cannot be prevented perfectly. | Oct 08 13:47 |
| Adus | nor can a breach imho. But we'll agree to disagree | Oct 08 13:47 |
| oiaohm | Detections of failing hardware can be built in so causing swap over to reducency before. | Oct 08 13:48 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Hey Roy, I gather that there's a lot of people who like Lefty. | Oct 08 13:48 |
| oiaohm | No it cannot Adus | Oct 08 13:48 |
| oiaohm | Only way a breach can happen is if the book has not been followed. | Oct 08 13:48 |
| Adus | Yes, I have worked with fault tolerant systems oiaohm | Oct 08 13:48 |
| oiaohm | Design the process of testing normally takes 2 years solid work for something basic. | Oct 08 13:48 |
| oiaohm | That is only designing the testing not doing it. | Oct 08 13:49 |
| schestowitz | It's all mathematics | Oct 08 13:49 |
| schestowitz | Some systems are unbreakable | Oct 08 13:49 |
| schestowitz | Because it can be proven scientifically | Oct 08 13:49 |
| fewa | ^^^ | Oct 08 13:50 |
| schestowitz | Reasoning about programming is now hard for small or compartmentalised systems | Oct 08 13:50 |
| oiaohm | Yep what is required when you are dealing with life and death. | Oct 08 13:50 |
| Adus | Not with physical access though. | Oct 08 13:50 |
| fewa | Adus, that has already been discussed | Oct 08 13:50 |
| schestowitz | TheMadHatter_: there are many Microsoft employees | Oct 08 13:50 |
| schestowitz | Some in this channel even :-) | Oct 08 13:50 |
| fewa | if someone has physical access then it doesn't matter | Oct 08 13:50 |
| oiaohm | Even physical access on these can be hard Adus | Oct 08 13:50 |
| schestowitz | Oh, and Novell | Oct 08 13:50 |
| Adus | Possible though. | Oct 08 13:50 |
| oiaohm | Everything inside a single chip Adus | Oct 08 13:50 |
| schestowitz | Novell employees like everything that attacks me | Oct 08 13:50 |
| fewa | oiaohm, that is a differn't topic | Oct 08 13:50 |
| schestowitz | In Twitter they rewtwit attacks on me | Oct 08 13:50 |
| fewa | very differn't topic | Oct 08 13:51 |
| oiaohm | Unless you have some very high level gear you are not getting anywhere Adus | Oct 08 13:51 |
| Adus | but it is not impossible, which is all my point was. | Oct 08 13:51 |
| Adus | With infinite time and resources, you can compromise any system | Oct 08 13:51 |
| oiaohm | And that gear is not something you fit in a port. | Oct 08 13:51 |
| Adus | that was my original statemetn | Oct 08 13:51 |
| oiaohm | So you would have to get pass guards and the like. | Oct 08 13:51 |
| fewa | Adus, but its wrong | Oct 08 13:51 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Hehe. Yeah, well he's got some people who really have a hate on for him, I've been bombarded with messages accusing him of everything from mopery to gawkery. It's been pretty amusing. | Oct 08 13:52 |
| oiaohm | w | Oct 08 13:52 |
| fewa | its disproof is a mathmatical fact | Oct 08 13:52 |
| oiaohm | Worse are the chips that destruct on investagion Adus | Oct 08 13:52 |
| fewa | oiaohm, that is not what Adus is trying to proove | Oct 08 13:52 |
| oiaohm | Chemcials placed on the silcon that react to inspection. | Oct 08 13:52 |
| fewa | Adus is spreading FUS about fearing your computer | Oct 08 13:52 |
| fewa | *FUD | Oct 08 13:52 |
| TheMadHatter_ | And a damned funny read. | Oct 08 13:52 |
| oiaohm | So physical access don't help you against them Adus | Oct 08 13:53 |
| oiaohm | This is you problem all you access points phyiscial included can be rendered useless with enough planing. | Oct 08 13:53 |
| fewa | because a condition of fear of the computer is conducive to Microsoft's business | Oct 08 13:53 |
| oiaohm | Not all systems are breachable. | Oct 08 13:53 |
| oiaohm | Destoryable yes but not breachable. | Oct 08 13:54 |
| fewa | exactly | Oct 08 13:54 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Anyway, Reason I dropped in was I heard something rather funny. It appears that Miguel's work on Mono has gotten notice at Microsoft. | Oct 08 13:55 |
| oiaohm | Adus: goal of max secuirty is that trying to access it will destroy it. | Oct 08 13:56 |
| schestowitz | TheMadHatter_: in what sense? | Oct 08 13:57 |
| TheMadHatter_ | They are really impressed with how much of .NET he has been able to duplicate, and how easily he has managed to port .NET to different platforms. | Oct 08 13:57 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft supports him | Oct 08 13:57 |
| schestowitz | And they also did the MCP thing after the FSF stepped in at the end of June | Oct 08 13:57 |
| fewa | hes probably got an army of ghost-coders behind him too | Oct 08 13:57 |
| oiaohm | Nothing is more secure to phsycal access than a server with a block of C4 clearing charge. You have to be nuts to mess with it. | Oct 08 13:57 |
| schestowitz | fewa: he does | Oct 08 13:57 |
| fewa | Microsoft-employees | Oct 08 13:57 |
| schestowitz | And some of his supporters used to work for Microsoft | Oct 08 13:57 |
| schestowitz | Folks like collier, mintouch, etc. | Oct 08 13:58 |
| schestowitz | *mindtouch | Oct 08 13:58 |
| oiaohm | Yes the buggers are armed. | Oct 08 13:58 |
| schestowitz | They are the Microsoft 'FOSS' people, trying to help Microsoft in FOSS | Oct 08 13:58 |
| schestowitz | AFAICT | Oct 08 13:58 |
| TheMadHatter_ | In fact they are actually scared he will decide to go beyond what .NET does, and produce something that is really competitive. They are actually terrified that he will out do them | Oct 08 13:58 |
| fewa | Embrace, extend, extinguish | Oct 08 13:58 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft calls Moonlight its project | Oct 08 13:58 |
| fewa | Embrace, extend, extinguish | Oct 08 13:58 |
| schestowitz | It's more to do with Microsoft | Oct 08 13:58 |
| schestowitz | Novell is just the "Linux" department | Oct 08 13:58 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Word I hear is that they think he's going to backstab them, so they are getting ready to backstab him first. Pre-emptive backstabbing. Oh joy. | Oct 08 13:59 |
| *schestowitz can hardly brathe | Oct 08 14:01 | |
| schestowitz | Work being done at the apartment.... dust flying everywhere | Oct 08 14:01 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Oh, and Apple is trying to wipe out Flash, which will probably wipe out Silverblight | Oct 08 14:02 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/10/06/html5-assault-on-adobe-flash-heats-up-with-clicktoflash/ | Oct 08 14:02 |
| phIRCe | Title: HTML5 assault on Adobe Flash heats up with ClickToFlash RoughlyDrafted Magazine .::. Size~: 48.22 KB | Oct 08 14:02 |
| schestowitz | Oh, no, not that thing.... | Oct 08 14:02 |
| schestowitz | Apple also has patents | Oct 08 14:02 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, Apple has its own plans | Oct 08 14:02 |
| schestowitz | With QUickTime and stuff | Oct 08 14:02 |
| schestowitz | It's not a friend of Web standards IMHO | Oct 08 14:02 |
| fewa | as apple gets bigger they will get meaner | Oct 08 14:03 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Yeah, you can't trust them, but it's nice when they kneecap Microsoft for you. | Oct 08 14:03 |
| fewa | very proportional to their size | Oct 08 14:03 |
| oiaohm | HTML5 kinda is designed to do in flash and silverlight. | Oct 08 14:04 |
| fewa | with something much better | Oct 08 14:04 |
| oiaohm | With webgl coming there will be less and less need. | Oct 08 14:04 |
| oiaohm | For either. | Oct 08 14:04 |
| TheMadHatter_ | I see Apple being a real problem only when Steve Jobs retires. Steve is smart enough to know that screwing your customers is stupid, something that Microsoft still hasn't figured out. | Oct 08 14:04 |
| oiaohm | MS bassically entered the market too late. | Oct 08 14:04 |
| TheMadHatter_ | MS entering the market too late is normal | Oct 08 14:05 |
| fewa | they have to wait till the market matures | Oct 08 14:05 |
| fewa | then start a project | Oct 08 14:05 |
| TheMadHatter_ | They have a massive case of "not invented here" syndrome | Oct 08 14:05 |
| fewa | and then rush it to completion | Oct 08 14:05 |
| TheMadHatter_ | By the time a tech market matures, it is already on the down swing, as something new starts to replace it. | Oct 08 14:06 |
| oiaohm | Adobe knew the end of flash would come. | Oct 08 14:06 |
| fewa | and they act like they can still set standards | Oct 08 14:06 |
| fewa | ie not standards | Oct 08 14:06 |
| fewa | but "de facto" unstandards | Oct 08 14:06 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft's fear-mongering vs GPL is working: http://www.v3.co.uk/v3/news/2250719/corporates-scared-gpl-terms | Oct 08 14:06 |
| oiaohm | Adobe had tried turning flash into a standard. | Oct 08 14:06 |
| schestowitz | McAfee does the FUD also | Oct 08 14:06 |
| schestowitz | The above claims is from Adobe | Oct 08 14:07 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Hehe. Did everyone read the rant about Internet Exploder by that girl from Vancouver? | Oct 08 14:07 |
| schestowitz | "Companies are running scared of General Public Licence (GPL) software for fear of being sued, according to a leading open source enthusiast at Adobe." | Oct 08 14:07 |
| fewa | g2g | Oct 08 14:08 |
| oiaohm | That fear has existed for years and what keeps bsd stuff alive schestowitz | Oct 08 14:08 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: justified in your opinion? | Oct 08 14:08 |
| schestowitz | The licence is simple | Oct 08 14:08 |
| Adus | But complying with it is not. | Oct 08 14:08 |
| *P|scean (n=kvirc@66-191-19-87.dhcp.rsbg.or.charter.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 14:09 | |
| schestowitz | Compliance comes after violation | Oct 08 14:09 |
| schestowitz | People need to follow the rules | Oct 08 14:09 |
| schestowitz | Not hard | Oct 08 14:09 |
| oiaohm | Compliance is simple Adus | Oct 08 14:09 |
| TheMadHatter_ | It's typical scare mongering. Reminds me of the Health Care BS in the USA | Oct 08 14:09 |
| schestowitz | Sigh | Oct 08 14:09 |
| Adus | As the article you linked says schestowitz, Open source is expensive. | Oct 08 14:09 |
| schestowitz | Now we have Microsoft employees here consistently promoting the Microsoft party line | Oct 08 14:09 |
| fewa | Adus, HAHAHAHAHAHA | Oct 08 14:09 |
| schestowitz | Under the "adding balance" pretext | Oct 08 14:09 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Open Source is dead. | Oct 08 14:10 |
| Adus | The article schestowitz linked to back up his point, says that itself. | Oct 08 14:10 |
| Adus | I notice you took the sentence which makes it work for your argument, but ignored the rest of the article. | Oct 08 14:10 |
| fewa | Adus, HAHAHAHAHAHA | Oct 08 14:10 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Free Software is the only thing that matters. | Oct 08 14:10 |
| schestowitz | Depends | Oct 08 14:10 |
| Adus | "Free software actually costs a lot of money, according to McAllister. Engineers need to go through the software to determine whether there is anything that conflicts with the GPL, and that takes a lot of time and money." | Oct 08 14:10 |
| Adus | ""I like open source," said McAllister. "But I also really like eating and putting my son through college."" | Oct 08 14:10 |
| schestowitz | Open source includes Free software | Oct 08 14:10 |
| oiaohm | LOL checking for licence violuations sould be standard business. | Oct 08 14:10 |
| schestowitz | But a lot went wrong and dual | Oct 08 14:10 |
| *fewa has quit ("Leaving") | Oct 08 14:10 | |
| schestowitz | So open source means nonsense now | Oct 08 14:10 |
| oiaohm | GPL is not the only nasty licence out there. | Oct 08 14:11 |
| schestowitz | Even some WIndows-only stuff for Microsoft | Oct 08 14:11 |
| schestowitz | But the corruption of the term started before Microsoft got around to doing it | Oct 08 14:11 |
| oiaohm | The lack of patent coverage from MS licences can be problematic. | Oct 08 14:11 |
| schestowitz | Patents.. *LOL* | Oct 08 14:12 |
| schestowitz | This is software | Oct 08 14:12 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft brings this nonsese to software | Oct 08 14:12 |
| schestowitz | Worldwide | Oct 08 14:12 |
| oiaohm | Depends where you are shiping. | Oct 08 14:12 |
| schestowitz | The usual dirty play | Oct 08 14:12 |
| Adus | oiaohm: I have to say I'm not a huge fan of GPL. It's viral in a way. I think open source can work in some situations, but I think GPL does a lot to undermine it personally. | Oct 08 14:12 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: they don't care | Oct 08 14:12 |
| schestowitz | They try to quietly 'harmonise' the rules | Oct 08 14:12 |
| oiaohm | GPL is loved by a lot of big companies because of its viral nature Adus | Oct 08 14:12 |
| Adus | If "Free Software" was truly free, I'd be able to do whatever the hell I wanted with it. That's not the case with GPL | Oct 08 14:12 |
| schestowitz | Adus: I don't need you to echo your employer's party line here | Oct 08 14:13 |
| oiaohm | So a competitor cannot double cross them Adus | Oct 08 14:13 |
| schestowitz | I'm sure you're trained well to think this way | Oct 08 14:13 |
| Adus | I don't think this is the Microsoft party line schestowitz | Oct 08 14:13 |
| oiaohm | Very much it is Adus | Oct 08 14:13 |
| schestowitz | So between messing about with your "gentoo" and slamming the very same licence it's based on you serve a criminal company for a living | Oct 08 14:13 |
| schestowitz | And you also waste other people's time in a channel that does not agree with your aemployer | Oct 08 14:13 |
| oiaohm | Lot of what you have quoted so far bill gates said at one point or another Adus | Oct 08 14:13 |
| schestowitz | We've had that done before, even without disclosure | Oct 08 14:14 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Free as in speech, not price. | Oct 08 14:14 |
| schestowitz | Which you gave /not/, either | Oct 08 14:14 |
| schestowitz | I needed to squeeze the disclosure out of you | Oct 08 14:14 |
| oiaohm | Adus: each licence has its place. | Oct 08 14:14 |
| schestowitz | Like I did with "TE" Wong | Oct 08 14:14 |
| TheMadHatter_ | As to software patents, they aren't an issue here. | Oct 08 14:14 |
| oiaohm | GPL place is between group of companies/coders that don't 100 percent trust each other not to back stab each other so write a contract so they cannot. | Oct 08 14:14 |
| schestowitz | They are not an issue in vast majority of thw world | Oct 08 14:14 |
| Adus | Getting rid of software patents worldwide would be a positive step imho | Oct 08 14:14 |
| schestowitz | s/w patents are valid in like a handful of countries | Oct 08 14:15 |
| schestowitz | Mostly those who play along with the imperial agendas | Oct 08 14:15 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Yep. Only a handful. I understand that Microsloth tried to get them considered here, and were told to take a flying leap. | Oct 08 14:15 |
| oiaohm | BSD is for those who don't care about being backstab Adus | Oct 08 14:15 |
| Adus | oiaohm: Agreed. I just think GPL is not really free. BSD on the other hand, I do like. | Oct 08 14:16 |
| Adus | LGPL is fine as well | Oct 08 14:16 |
| oiaohm | GPL has a important place. | Oct 08 14:16 |
| TheMadHatter_ | As I said, Open Source is dead. The only thing that matters is free software. And I'll add, the only licenses that matter are the GPL and the BSD. | Oct 08 14:16 |
| Adus | Well, I don't see why LGPL isn't enough oiaohm | Oct 08 14:16 |
| TheMadHatter_ | GPL is needed. It's the only way you can control your code. | Oct 08 14:16 |
| TheMadHatter_ | With BSD you have no control over your code. | Oct 08 14:17 |
| Adus | LGPL allows you to do whatever the hell you want, as long as you release the changes to the LGPL code right? But you don't need to release your whole app? | Oct 08 14:17 |
| TheMadHatter_ | But it's good for implementing standards. | Oct 08 14:17 |
| oiaohm | LGPL allows bits to be stacked on top that could hide extract fuctinallyt at times LGPL is not suitable. | Oct 08 14:17 |
| oiaohm | Again it depends on the code what it is. What licence is the correct one Adus | Oct 08 14:18 |
| Adus | Yep | Oct 08 14:18 |
| TheMadHatter_ | LGPL doesn't give you enough control. | Oct 08 14:18 |
| oiaohm | Application GPL is good. | Oct 08 14:18 |
| oiaohm | Kernel GPL is good. | Oct 08 14:18 |
| oiaohm | Library LGPL is good. | Oct 08 14:18 |
| Adus | Ms-PL seems alright as well | Oct 08 14:18 |
| oiaohm | Not really Adus | Oct 08 14:18 |
| oiaohm | It clearly words no patent coverage. | Oct 08 14:19 |
| TheMadHatter_ | And really library is the only thing LGPL should be used for. Using it for Open Office was stupid. | Oct 08 14:19 |
| oiaohm | So leaving MS open to attack Adus | Oct 08 14:19 |
| Adus | I've never really understood Microsoft and patents. They get sued over patent infringement far more than they sue others. | Oct 08 14:19 |
| TheMadHatter_ | MS-PL is a sign of license proliferation. | Oct 08 14:19 |
| Adus | Seems like they'd do better to back a bid to get rid of them | Oct 08 14:20 |
| oiaohm | MS had the idea they could use patents to control/destory Linux. | Oct 08 14:20 |
| oiaohm | Bill gates even public said so. | Oct 08 14:20 |
| TheMadHatter_ | License Proliferation is a problem, and one of the things that confuses corporations looking at Free Software. | Oct 08 14:20 |
| Adus | But that is evidently not going to be the case, so why still support them | Oct 08 14:20 |
| Adus | I don't see how it beenfits them | Oct 08 14:20 |
| oiaohm | Redhat is rock solid on patents. | Oct 08 14:21 |
| oiaohm | They want to see the patent and have the chance to destory it before agreeing to it. | Oct 08 14:21 |
| oiaohm | Not really what you want to be doing. | Oct 08 14:21 |
| Adus | I mean, it's probably the just fact Microsoft have so many products, they are bound to tread on people's toes. They're also a very easy target. | Oct 08 14:22 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Red Hat are idiots. The problem isn't software patents. The problem is patents. Period. The patent system needs to be abolished. | Oct 08 14:22 |
| Adus | But yeh, I don't see why Microsoft support software patents personally | Oct 08 14:22 |
| oiaohm | Redhat wants patents destoryed TheMadHatter_ | Oct 08 14:22 |
| oiaohm | So they are not playing ball and just paying up TheMadHatter_ | Oct 08 14:22 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Because they are idiots. Simple answer. probably true. | Oct 08 14:22 |
| oiaohm | Not really TheMadHatter_ | Oct 08 14:22 |
| oiaohm | If you pay up without fight more people come and attack you TheMadHatter_ | Oct 08 14:22 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Microsoft aren't idiots? | Oct 08 14:22 |
| oiaohm | If anyone is idiots it is MS. | Oct 08 14:23 |
| oiaohm | MS started off just paying off patents so more and more have come and attacked them. | Oct 08 14:23 |
| TheMadHatter_ | MS are idiots on patents. They want them. But they don't want to comply with them. | Oct 08 14:23 |
| oiaohm | Adus: basically brought it on themselves by there actions. | Oct 08 14:23 |
| oiaohm | The base problem MS has is that money will solve everything. | Oct 08 14:24 |
| oiaohm | Vista is a good example at that. They threw more money at it than it takes to fly to the moon and back. | Oct 08 14:25 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Consider I4I. If they hadn't sued MS for patent infringement, it would have been for breaching a non-disclosure. | Oct 08 14:25 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Which would have been more to the point. | Oct 08 14:25 |
| Adus | http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/portal-tshirt.html | Oct 08 14:25 |
| phIRCe | Title: Not a web page! Aborting type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Oct 08 14:25 |
| Adus | I want | Oct 08 14:25 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Don't show Microsoft your technology - they'll steal it. | Oct 08 14:26 |
| MinceR | i'd show them particular kinds of technology | Oct 08 14:26 |
| MinceR | they'd be on the receiving end of the demonstration :> | Oct 08 14:26 |
| oiaohm | Thing that scared companies a little about GPL is in germany you don't have to be a author to sue over GPL breach just a owner of the product. | Oct 08 14:27 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Which is an issue of control. | Oct 08 14:27 |
| oiaohm | If that gets proven world wide GPL would have become one of the most enforcable leicences on earth. | Oct 08 14:27 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Control by the coder. | Oct 08 14:27 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Control by the user. | Oct 08 14:28 |
| oiaohm | Coder granted user particular rights. | Oct 08 14:28 |
| oiaohm | Failure to provide users with those rights is a breach against the user was the arguement. | Oct 08 14:28 |
| oiaohm | Quite a far arguement. It does open up the legal door for all law firms in germany to sue over breach. | Oct 08 14:29 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Hehe. Just heard funny noises from kitchen. Went in. Kitchen table covered by Siamese cats playing with Mahjongg tiles. Guess that will teach the kids to leave the Mahjonng set out. | Oct 08 14:29 |
| oiaohm | as long as the cats don't eat them no problems. | Oct 08 14:30 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Heh. They won't eat these, it's my good set that I picked up in Shanghai. Really nice set, pieces are 1/2 inch thick. | Oct 08 14:31 |
| TheMadHatter_ | So I'll let the cats play. Dogs luckily are too smart to eat them <G>. | Oct 08 14:32 |
| oiaohm | Not the marble ones that can crack of knocked off table. | Oct 08 14:33 |
| TheMadHatter_ | No, I looked at the marble ones, and just wasn't willing to spend the money. | Oct 08 14:34 |
| TheMadHatter_ | I almost brought back a guitar though - prices in the back alley shops are amazing. | Oct 08 14:34 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.macguff.fr/goomi/unspeakable/vault314.html | Oct 08 14:34 |
| phIRCe | Title: UNSPEAKABLE VAULT (Of Doom) .::. Size~: 7.69 KB | Oct 08 14:34 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Poster at Microsoft protest against free software | Oct 08 14:36 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/political-pictures-right-wing-protesters-czars-commies.jpg | Oct 08 14:36 |
| phIRCe | Title: OpenDNS .::. Size~: 2.06 KB | Oct 08 14:36 |
| *kentma has quit ("Leaving.") | Oct 08 14:37 | |
| *kentma (n=user@ellandroad.demon.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 14:37 | |
| trmanco | kde 4.3.2 eliminates some nasty bugs | Oct 08 14:37 |
| trmanco | kopete now works fine | Oct 08 14:37 |
| trmanco | kmail works even better now | Oct 08 14:38 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Oct 08 14:38 | |
| TheMadHatter_ | I'll take Enlightenment over KDE and Gnome. | Oct 08 14:39 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/10/quick-boot/ | Oct 08 14:42 |
| phIRCe | Title: Computer Makers Aim to Banish Boot-Up Blues | Gadget Lab | Wired.com .::. Size~: 113.64 KB | Oct 08 14:42 |
| schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8296463.stm | Oct 08 14:44 |
| phIRCe | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 86.63 KB | Oct 08 14:44 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: knode update? | Oct 08 14:44 |
| schestowitz | Although I know it's separate | Oct 08 14:45 |
| trmanco | I dunno | Oct 08 14:45 |
| trmanco | it's all in kdepim | Oct 08 14:45 |
| schestowitz | TheMadHatter_: some nasty new for Vista 7 coming | Oct 08 14:45 |
| schestowitz | Fast boot too | Oct 08 14:45 |
| schestowitz | trmanco found this: http://www.builderau.com.au/news/soa/Study-Windows-7-doesn-t-boot-faster/0,339028227,339298949,00.htm?feed=rss | Oct 08 14:45 |
| phIRCe | Title: Study: Windows 7 doesn't boot faster - News - Builder AU .::. Size~: 57.08 KB | Oct 08 14:45 |
| schestowitz | And Ballmer spilled the beans | Oct 08 14:45 |
| schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/articles/20091007/0122226438.shtml | Oct 08 14:46 |
| schestowitz | http://www.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idUSTRE5961UX20091007 | Oct 08 14:46 |
| phIRCe | Title: Steve Ballmer Declares 'Free Is Not A Business Model' -- Apparently Unfamiliar With Microsoft's Free Products | Techdirt .::. Size~: 83.94 KB | Oct 08 14:46 |
| trmanco | coffee beans? | Oct 08 14:46 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/07/ballmer_does_europe/ | Oct 08 14:46 |
| phIRCe | Title: Ballmer mixed on Windows 7's success • The Register .::. Size~: 27.95 KB | Oct 08 14:46 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: no, he's stuffed with baked beans | Oct 08 14:46 |
| schestowitz | If he received an enema he'd fit in a matchbox | Oct 08 14:47 |
| schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8294355.stm | Oct 08 14:48 |
| phIRCe | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 86.61 KB | Oct 08 14:48 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Do you follow | Oct 08 14:50 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://volesoft.com/ | Oct 08 14:50 |
| phIRCe | Title: Mad Mike Magees Musings .::. Size~: 39.85 KB | Oct 08 14:50 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/10/08/gartner-declares-android-a-second-place-winner-in-2012-why/ | Oct 08 14:52 |
| phIRCe | Title: Gartner declares Android a second place winner in 2012. Why? RoughlyDrafted Magazine .::. Size~: 32.16 KB | Oct 08 14:52 |
| schestowitz | Heh. | Oct 08 14:54 |
| schestowitz | I've not visited his blog for a while | Oct 08 14:54 |
| schestowitz | TheMadHatter_: I don't cover gartner drek | Oct 08 14:55 |
| schestowitz | They also do a Digium/Asterisk play now | Oct 08 14:55 |
| schestowitz | "Magic Quadrant" | Oct 08 14:55 |
| schestowitz | THe reason all the minions suck up to them. | Oct 08 14:55 |
| schestowitz | Gartner is paid by Bill Gates and Ellison | Oct 08 14:55 |
| schestowitz | they also do contract directly with companies like Microsoft, not just the oligarchs | Oct 08 14:55 |
| schestowitz | TheMadHatter_: Mike doesn't get much attention in his blog | Oct 08 14:56 |
| schestowitz | There are other famous Brits whose blogs never got the deserved attention | Oct 08 14:56 |
| schestowitz | How's Charlie doing ? | Oct 08 14:56 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Yeah, I know all about Gartner. I like keeping up on their shenanigans, and Daniel at Roughly Drafted does a great slice and dice on them regularly. | Oct 08 14:57 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Charlie's doing pretty good. He's still following up on Bumpgate. | Oct 08 14:57 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Or did you hear about that - do you follow hardware? | Oct 08 14:58 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/10/06/nvidia-kills-gtx285-gtx275-gtx260-abandons-mid-and-high-end-market/ | Oct 08 15:01 |
| phIRCe | Title: SemiAccurate :: Nvidia kills GTX285, GTX275, GTX260, abandons the mid and high end market .::. Size~: 24.86 KB | Oct 08 15:01 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/10/06/nvidia-will-crater-gtx260-and-gtx275-prices-soon | Oct 08 15:02 |
| phIRCe | Title: SemiAccurate :: Nvidia will crater GTX260 and GTX275 prices soon .::. Size~: 32.62 KB | Oct 08 15:02 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/10/01/nvidia-fakes-fermi-boards-gtc | Oct 08 15:02 |
| phIRCe | Title: SemiAccurate :: Nvidia fakes Fermi boards at GPU Technology Conference .::. Size~: 31.58 KB | Oct 08 15:02 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/09/15/nvidia-gt300-yeilds-under-2 | Oct 08 15:03 |
| phIRCe | Title: SemiAccurate :: Nvidia GT300 yields are under 2% .::. Size~: 22.48 KB | Oct 08 15:03 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/09/01/nvidia-roadmaps-turn | Oct 08 15:03 |
| phIRCe | Title: SemiAccurate :: Nvidia roadmaps turn up .::. Size~: 24.56 KB | Oct 08 15:03 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/08/28/nvidia-renames-2xx-parts-3xx | Oct 08 15:03 |
| phIRCe | Title: SemiAccurate :: Nvidia renames 2xx parts to 3xx .::. Size~: 22.75 KB | Oct 08 15:03 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/08/21/nvidia-finally-understands-bumpgate | Oct 08 15:04 |
| phIRCe | Title: SemiAccurate :: Nvidia finally understands bumpgate .::. Size~: 22.89 KB | Oct 08 15:04 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/08/18/nvidia-takes-huge-risk | Oct 08 15:04 |
| phIRCe | Title: SemiAccurate :: Nvidia takes a huge risk .::. Size~: 22.89 KB | Oct 08 15:04 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/08/13/gt300-have-nvio-chip | Oct 08 15:06 |
| phIRCe | Title: SemiAccurate :: GT300 to have an NVIO chip .::. Size~: 22.05 KB | Oct 08 15:06 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/08/10/sony-admits-14-defective-nvidia-notebooks | Oct 08 15:06 |
| phIRCe | Title: SemiAccurate :: Sony admits to 14 defective Nvidia notebooks .::. Size~: 24.63 KB | Oct 08 15:06 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/08/05/four-more-gt300-variants-tip | Oct 08 15:06 |
| phIRCe | Title: SemiAccurate :: Four more GT300 variants tip up .::. Size~: 20.03 KB | Oct 08 15:06 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/07/29/miracles-happen-gt300-tapes-out | Oct 08 15:06 |
| phIRCe | Title: SemiAccurate :: Miracles happen, GT300 tapes out! .::. Size~: 23.87 KB | Oct 08 15:06 |
| TheMadHatter_ | And last but not least | Oct 08 15:07 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/06/26/apple-nvidia-dont-let-door-hit-your-ss-way-out | Oct 08 15:07 |
| phIRCe | Title: SemiAccurate :: Apple to Nvidia: Don't let the door hit your *ss on the way out .::. Size~: 20.86 KB | Oct 08 15:07 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Needless to say Charlie is not getting a Christmas card from NVidia this year. In fact Mike Magee claims that Charlie got a plate of food thrown at him by an NVidia exec. | Oct 08 15:08 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://volesoft.com/2008/06/24/inquirer-hack-gets-nvidia-eggs-in-face/ | Oct 08 15:08 |
| phIRCe | Title: Inquirer hack gets Nvidia eggs in face « Mad Mike Magees Musings .::. Size~: 29.85 KB | Oct 08 15:08 |
| schestowitz | TheMadHatter_: LOL | Oct 08 15:08 |
| schestowitz | Did he enjoy a plate of food? | Oct 08 15:09 |
| schestowitz | Nvidia's PR skills are poor | Oct 08 15:09 |
| TheMadHatter_ | So just a warning - don't buy NVidia graphics cards till they straighten the mess out. | Oct 08 15:09 |
| schestowitz | the above may be the burpees after the food throwaway | Oct 08 15:09 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Yeah, I gathered that. If you screw up, admit it, and fix it. Nvidia tried to hide it, and now they look really bad. Hell, they are still trying to hide it. | Oct 08 15:09 |
| *P|scean uses a gtx 260 | Oct 08 15:10 | |
| TheMadHatter_ | One last link from Mad Mike | Oct 08 15:10 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://volesoft.com/2008/06/25/nvidia-and-the-eggs-revisited/ | Oct 08 15:10 |
| schestowitz | TheMadHatter_: sounds like Charlie is well well familiar with Nvidia's ugly side | Oct 08 15:10 |
| phIRCe | Title: Nvidia and the eggs revisited « Mad Mike Magees Musings .::. Size~: 30.67 KB | Oct 08 15:10 |
| schestowitz | I'm quite familiar with Microsoft's | Oct 08 15:10 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Hell yes - he was accurate. He told the truth. The emperor has no clothes. | Oct 08 15:10 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] You know you're blog has been noticed when the spammers start turning up lol | Oct 08 15:11 | |
| schestowitz | "Throw eggs," eh? | Oct 08 15:11 |
| *schestowitz uses an nvidia card ATM | Oct 08 15:11 | |
| schestowitz | That was before the fiasco began.. when I bought it | Oct 08 15:11 |
| schestowitz | My house is a mess | Oct 08 15:11 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Me, I always liked ATI. Of course I live 10 minutes from their head office. | Oct 08 15:12 |
| schestowitz | bbl in a while. Gotta clean the bathroom after the cleaners | Oct 08 15:12 |
| TheMadHatter_ | heh. | Oct 08 15:12 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Oh. by the way, you know how much Charlies loves Microsoft? | Oct 08 15:12 |
| Adus | The nvidia drivers have been far better until recently. nvidia seem to have lost the plot recently. | Oct 08 15:12 |
| TheMadHatter_ | He has forums, and the most popular topic is the Windows 7 Sins campaign. | Oct 08 15:13 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.semiaccurate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=596 | Oct 08 15:13 |
| phIRCe | Title: windows7sins - SemiAccurate Forums .::. Size~: 72.53 KB | Oct 08 15:13 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Yeah, well NVidia have totally screwed themselves. You have to wonder if they can survive. | Oct 08 15:14 |
| *DaemonFC (n=ryan@c-68-57-223-60.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 15:14 | |
| DaemonFC | uggh, my mom's cell is going off again, and I'm not running after it | Oct 08 15:15 |
| DaemonFC | it hurts to move | Oct 08 15:15 |
| TheMadHatter_ | I mean, this has been going on for years, and they still won't admit that their product us sub-standard. Maybe they are taking a page from Microsoft. | Oct 08 15:15 |
| DaemonFC | and I have to go in for the EEG today | Oct 08 15:15 |
| Adus | I think nvidia dropped the ball when they started spouting the shit about DirectX 11 not being important and that it won't affect their sales and they don't care about. Historically nvidia have made their moeny from gamers | Oct 08 15:16 |
| DaemonFC | Windows is like the army | Oct 08 15:16 |
| Adus | and making statements like that just pisses people off | Oct 08 15:16 |
| Adus | AMD/ATI have the right idea | Oct 08 15:16 |
| DaemonFC | everyone bitches and most re-enlist | Oct 08 15:16 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft has this bear hug | Oct 08 15:17 |
| DaemonFC | they grab you because Windows has most of the games, most of the online services, and most of the other stuff people use | Oct 08 15:18 |
| DaemonFC | it gets to where you hate using it but the other people you need to be compatible with have it so they pull you in with them | Oct 08 15:19 |
| *jono (n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 15:19 | |
| DaemonFC | it would be like saying you have a disease and the only thing that can halt the progress is an intestinal parasite | Oct 08 15:19 |
| Adus | DirectX is better than OpenGL these days, which is a real shame. I don't know where OpenGL went wrong, but it did. | Oct 08 15:19 |
| DaemonFC | OpenGL went horribly wrong by committee | Oct 08 15:20 |
| TheMadHatter_ | I think the claims Nvidia made about DX11 had to do with the fact that they knew they wouldn't have a card ready. | Oct 08 15:20 |
| DaemonFC | SGI never let it lag like this joke KHRONOS Group | Oct 08 15:20 |
| Adus | DirectX just walks all over OpenGL, DX11 especially | Oct 08 15:20 |
| Adus | DX10 was a bit shaky | Oct 08 15:20 |
| Adus | but 9 and 11 are solid | Oct 08 15:20 |
| TheMadHatter_ | From what I've heard Open GL is getting a face lift. Should be interesting seeing if it happens. | Oct 08 15:21 |
| Adus | They have been saying that for a long time. | Oct 08 15:21 |
| DaemonFC | DirectX 10.1 isn't bad, the reason it's not being used is because everyone has DirectX 9 | Oct 08 15:21 |
| DaemonFC | but only Vista users have 10.x | Oct 08 15:21 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Oh, DaemonFC, this one's for you | Oct 08 15:21 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/opinion/1137283/you-rights-windows | Oct 08 15:21 |
| Adus | But currently Microsoft have DirectX and Sony have libGPU and both are lightyears beyond OpenGL currently | Oct 08 15:21 |
| DaemonFC | it's what tying DirectX 10 to Vista did | Oct 08 15:21 |
| DaemonFC | that's why DX 11 is being backported | Oct 08 15:21 |
| Adus | And nvidia refused to support 10.1 | Oct 08 15:22 |
| Adus | for a long time | Oct 08 15:22 |
| DaemonFC | DirectX 11 offers a lot of benefits on existing DX 10.1 hardware | Oct 08 15:22 |
| Adus | yeh, the whole free-threaded model of DX11 is really cool as well | Oct 08 15:22 |
| Adus | especially as games become more parralell | Oct 08 15:22 |
| DaemonFC | faster performance, DirectX Compute, etc | Oct 08 15:22 |
| Adus | was a wise choice | Oct 08 15:22 |
| DaemonFC | more than half of the improvements apply to existing hardware | Oct 08 15:22 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] New song on SoundClick: http://tinyurl.com/ydalcwn Marti van Lin - Gloria (Vocal) by Marti van Lin | Oct 08 15:23 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Not a web page! Aborting type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Oct 08 15:23 |
| DaemonFC | I can see developers using DX 10.1 + The subset of DX 11 that works on 10.1 cards | Oct 08 15:23 |
| Adus | Yep. DirectX 11 is more a software change than hardware. Though the tesselation and stuff will benefit from hardware support | Oct 08 15:23 |
| DaemonFC | for at least 2-3 years | Oct 08 15:23 |
| DaemonFC | I think that was what Microsoft wanted to give them anyway | Oct 08 15:24 |
| Adus | well, the Xbox 360 is DirectX 9 Extended. So we won't see DirectX 9 disapear until there is a new generation of consoles. | Oct 08 15:24 |
| DaemonFC | that way they have a huge installed base on day 1 | Oct 08 15:24 |
| DaemonFC | I'm not letting DX 10.1 cards scare me away | Oct 08 15:24 |
| DaemonFC | I just bought a RadeonHD 4670 for my new system | Oct 08 15:25 |
| DaemonFC | there's a huge amount of games out there that work with it, all of the games in the pipeline for the next couple years probably will | Oct 08 15:25 |
| DaemonFC | the card will be obsolete by then anyway | Oct 08 15:25 |
| Adus | For the most part, yes | Oct 08 15:26 |
| DaemonFC | the 4670 is a huge bargain | Oct 08 15:26 |
| DaemonFC | 3 times faster than Geforce 9500 GT at the same price | Oct 08 15:26 |
| DaemonFC | one hell of a sub $80 card | Oct 08 15:27 |
| Adus | Yep. There's a reason the Xbox 360 has an ATI card in it :p | Oct 08 15:27 |
| DaemonFC | you're probably on par with the 9800 GTX at $70 instead of buying the 9800 GTX for $160-ish | Oct 08 15:27 |
| schestowitz | Drizzle neglected Windows < http://www.twit.tv/floss35 > | Oct 08 15:28 |
| phIRCe | Title: The TWiT Netcast Network with Leo Laporte .::. Size~: 22.24 KB | Oct 08 15:28 |
| DaemonFC | and you get FOSS drivers in *nix, bundled with X.org | Oct 08 15:28 |
| DaemonFC | win-win | Oct 08 15:28 |
| Adus | No DirectX support though. | Oct 08 15:28 |
| DaemonFC | instead of some unbelievably crappy buggy binary blob that you can easily botch a kernel with (Nvidia) | Oct 08 15:29 |
| Adus | No one in their right mind is going to use OpenGL for a commercial game, especially if they are targetting Consoles as well | Oct 08 15:29 |
| DaemonFC | My hatred of Nvidia has been building for quite some time | Oct 08 15:29 |
| Adus | If you're targeting PC, Xbox 360 and PS3 for instance. You'd have to write 3 render targets if you wanted to use OpenGL | Oct 08 15:29 |
| Adus | or 2 if you use DirectX | Oct 08 15:29 |
| DaemonFC | they're overpriced, their Linux driver sucks, their FreeBSD driver doesn't exist | Oct 08 15:29 |
| Adus | it's a no brainer really, considering DirectX is better | Oct 08 15:29 |
| DaemonFC | and their board of directors are homophobes | Oct 08 15:29 |
| DaemonFC | so with all due respect, F*ck them | Oct 08 15:30 |
| Adus | homophobes? How exactly? | Oct 08 15:30 |
| DaemonFC | after all those donations to pass Prop 8 in California | Oct 08 15:30 |
| DaemonFC | I'll never do business with Nvidia again | Oct 08 15:31 |
| Adus | nvidia donated? | Oct 08 15:31 |
| DaemonFC | for any price | Oct 08 15:31 |
| DaemonFC | several on their board did | Oct 08 15:31 |
| DaemonFC | their CEO did | Oct 08 15:31 |
| Adus | That's really unprofessional imho | Oct 08 15:31 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, it is | Oct 08 15:31 |
| Adus | I can understand a company or it's board lobbying/donating for something that affects their business | Oct 08 15:31 |
| Adus | but that's something totally unrelated | Oct 08 15:32 |
| DaemonFC | no wonder they were pissed when the donor list was released in compliance with California election law | Oct 08 15:32 |
| DaemonFC | they gave about $50,000, total | Oct 08 15:32 |
| Adus | It got passed in the end right? | Oct 08 15:32 |
| DaemonFC | yes | Oct 08 15:32 |
| Adus | Are you in America? | Oct 08 15:32 |
| DaemonFC | the f-ing Mormons and the rest of the hate mongers | Oct 08 15:33 |
| DaemonFC | yes, Indiana | Oct 08 15:33 |
| Adus | Yeh, I don't understand it personally. | Oct 08 15:33 |
| Adus | Wanna hear a funny story? | Oct 08 15:33 |
| DaemonFC | same sex marriage banned by law, but not by our constitution | Oct 08 15:33 |
| DaemonFC | the Senate Republicans keep trying | Oct 08 15:33 |
| DaemonFC | the House Democrats keep beating that back | Oct 08 15:33 |
| Adus | So, not sure if you've ever played Fable. But it has same-sex marriage and sex if you want. You can marry any NPC in the game. | Oct 08 15:33 |
| DaemonFC | sure | Oct 08 15:33 |
| Adus | When the game got a mature rating in the states. They asked why, and apparently this was the cause. | Oct 08 15:34 |
| Adus | Microsoft and Lionhead said they were unwilling to remove it though. But it got rated mature instead of teen for that reason and that reason alone. | Oct 08 15:34 |
| DaemonFC | well, I don't want to marry, but the idea of taking away human rights by law, constitutional law, or voter majority is just awful | Oct 08 15:34 |
| DaemonFC | that's what I have a problem with | Oct 08 15:34 |
| Adus | I couldn't believe the simple presence of Gay marriage earned it a mature rating | Oct 08 15:35 |
| DaemonFC | these are just like redlining or Jim Crow laws | Oct 08 15:35 |
| Adus | Otherwise it would have been a teen game | Oct 08 15:35 |
| DaemonFC | or whites couldn't marry blacks in most states til 1968 | Oct 08 15:35 |
| Adus | Yeh. Are you gay? | Oct 08 15:35 |
| DaemonFC | I just want to believe that we're better than that and people keep proving me wrong | Oct 08 15:35 |
| DaemonFC | yes | Oct 08 15:35 |
| Adus | I agree with you totally. In this day and age, I'd like to think "Who cares?" but people do | Oct 08 15:35 |
| DaemonFC | It's cause their peaceful religions tell them to harass people that mean them no harm | Oct 08 15:36 |
| DaemonFC | the Muslims do it, the Christians do it | Oct 08 15:36 |
| Adus | Don't get me started on religion :p | Oct 08 15:36 |
| bozo_ | The US are just where they want to be, in the center of the Universe | Oct 08 15:36 |
| DaemonFC | I'm not religious and I don't have anything against any religion that leaves me alone | Oct 08 15:36 |
| Adus | I'm atheist, probably to a fault actually. I fundamentally disagree with religion | Oct 08 15:37 |
| DaemonFC | just go away and be a peaceful Muslim or Christian, just actually do that instead of giving me lip service | Oct 08 15:37 |
| DaemonFC | don't keep pissing on me and saying it's raining | Oct 08 15:37 |
| Adus | I hope you know that Europe looks at america and sighs? | Oct 08 15:38 |
| DaemonFC | I think a lot of Americans look on America and sigh | Oct 08 15:38 |
| bozo_ | Not just Europe. | Oct 08 15:38 |
| DaemonFC | but when you have a tyranny of the (slight) majority and a system that allows it, what do you do? | Oct 08 15:38 |
| DaemonFC | brb | Oct 08 15:38 |
| Adus | I lived in Norway for a while, and while I was over there. They legalised gay marriage. They had civil partnerships for years. There was no opposition, infact the government organised this huge parade and stuff for the day the law came into force | Oct 08 15:38 |
| Adus | Just makes me laugh that it's still an issue in the states :p | Oct 08 15:39 |
| DaemonFC | Adus: Some of the states | Oct 08 15:39 |
| DaemonFC | slowly changing | Oct 08 15:39 |
| Adus | When pretty much everyone was celebrating in Norway. As they were one of the first countries to make marriage totally equal | Oct 08 15:39 |
| Adus | Religion is the cause of the problem as you say though | Oct 08 15:39 |
| DaemonFC | in 50 years maybe I'll be interviewed on the history channel over what life was like in 2009 | Oct 08 15:39 |
| Adus | If you haven't been killed by Islamist fundamentalists once they take over the west :p | Oct 08 15:40 |
| bozo_ | Or when Pakistan, India and China get together. | Oct 08 15:41 |
| Adus | Pakistan and India getting together? hell will freeze over before that day | Oct 08 15:42 |
| Adus | Don't they *hate* eachother? | Oct 08 15:42 |
| Adus | Like Israel, hamas style? | Oct 08 15:42 |
| bozo_ | Space will make that happen, | Oct 08 15:42 |
| Adus | space? | Oct 08 15:43 |
| bozo_ | ie, room to live | Oct 08 15:43 |
| Adus | Hmm, I wonder if the discovery of Aliens might unite humanity | Oct 08 15:43 |
| bozo_ | nothing else has | Oct 08 15:44 |
| *gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 15:45 | |
| Adus | DaemonFC: How old are you, out of interest? | Oct 08 15:51 |
| DaemonFC | Adus: 25 | Oct 08 15:52 |
| Adus | Ok, around where I guessed then. | Oct 08 15:52 |
| DaemonFC | I'd rather die than live under Islamic rule | Oct 08 15:52 |
| Adus | Me too, lol | Oct 08 15:52 |
| DaemonFC | and if it comes to that, I'll try to shoot one or two of them on the way out | Oct 08 15:52 |
| DaemonFC | spite, pass it on | Oct 08 15:52 |
| DaemonFC | the Christians are a damned pain in the ass | Oct 08 15:53 |
| DaemonFC | I hate to say I prefer them over anything | Oct 08 15:53 |
| DaemonFC | but in the case of Muslims, I really do | Oct 08 15:53 |
| DaemonFC | at least the Christians are mostly just piss ants | Oct 08 15:54 |
| Adus | They are just loud these days | Oct 08 15:54 |
| Adus | don't actually do anything | Oct 08 15:54 |
| DaemonFC | most don't | Oct 08 15:55 |
| DaemonFC | just loud and obnoxious | Oct 08 15:55 |
| Adus | But yeh, we need to form some worldwide Atheist lobby group | Oct 08 15:55 |
| DaemonFC | haven't really seen them blow up airplanes or stuff | Oct 08 15:55 |
| Adus | they used to be the worst though. I love how christians think they are the innocent party | Oct 08 15:56 |
| DaemonFC | all flash, no substance | Oct 08 15:56 |
| DaemonFC | I guess I prefer the devil I know which is also too cowardly to make good on any threats | Oct 08 15:57 |
| bozo_ | unless you're a doctor in an abortion clinic, | Oct 08 15:57 |
| schestowitz | TheMadHatter_: http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2353936,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532 | Oct 08 15:58 |
| phIRCe | Title: Nvidia Halting Chipset Development - Lab Notes by ExtremeTech .::. Size~: 72.15 KB | Oct 08 15:58 |
| schestowitz | Haha! | Oct 08 15:58 |
| schestowitz | bozo_ is MUTEX | Oct 08 15:58 |
| DaemonFC | I also avoided buying a system with an Nvidia chipset | Oct 08 15:58 |
| DaemonFC | booyah | Oct 08 15:58 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Christians are only a pain in the ass if you live in the USA. Move to Canada. | Oct 08 15:58 |
| DaemonFC | I got one with an AMD-made chipset | Oct 08 15:58 |
| DaemonFC | Nvidia isn't making a dime on this system | Oct 08 15:59 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Yeah, but the article doesn't cover the graphics chips, which is where the main problem is. | Oct 08 15:59 |
| Adus | TheMadHatter_: They hassle you in England sometimes. Though they are fringe cases, it's not widespread | Oct 08 15:59 |
| Adus | usually on city high streets and stuff | Oct 08 16:00 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: The irony of donating XO laptops to third world schoolkids | Oct 08 16:00 |
| DaemonFC | they made them, why the hell would they want them back? B-) | Oct 08 16:00 |
| TheMadHatter_ | You should come to Toronto and see the Gay Pride parade and the Dyje March. | Oct 08 16:01 |
| DaemonFC | TheMadHatter_: I had a chance to flee the US a few years ago and move to Toronto | Oct 08 16:01 |
| Adus | We have some good gay pride events in England :D | Oct 08 16:01 |
| DaemonFC | still kicking myself | Oct 08 16:01 |
| Adus | I went to Brighton for the last one, which is the biggest | Oct 08 16:01 |
| Adus | that was fun | Oct 08 16:01 |
| DaemonFC | there's one in Fort Wayne every year | Oct 08 16:02 |
| DaemonFC | that's about 20 miles from here | Oct 08 16:03 |
| DaemonFC | I live in a hick town that's 20 miles away from a modern city of 350,000 people | Oct 08 16:03 |
| Adus | Get any protesters or anything there? :p | Oct 08 16:03 |
| DaemonFC | it's quiet here though | Oct 08 16:03 |
| DaemonFC | Adus: It has happened | Oct 08 16:03 |
| DaemonFC | usually just a few hecklers | Oct 08 16:03 |
| DaemonFC | the organized right wing hate machine is mostly Right To Life around here | Oct 08 16:04 |
| DaemonFC | they don't heckle gay people as per their activities | Oct 08 16:04 |
| Adus | I live in Guildford, Surrey, UK. Which is like 40 minutes from London. 50 minutes from Brighton | Oct 08 16:04 |
| Adus | pretty nice place :) | Oct 08 16:04 |
| DaemonFC | this town is pretty much a failed former industrial center | Oct 08 16:05 |
| Adus | Guildford is a hub for tech companies. | Oct 08 16:05 |
| DaemonFC | lots of abandoned warehouses and factories, blighted former grocery stores and mom and pop shops | Oct 08 16:05 |
| Adus | Microsoft, Vodafone, EA, Zoe Mode, Codemasters etc etc | Oct 08 16:05 |
| DaemonFC | and a Walmart the size of 12 football fields | Oct 08 16:05 |
| DaemonFC | lots of sprawl | Oct 08 16:05 |
| DaemonFC | I call them Sprawl-Mart cause that's what they cause | Oct 08 16:06 |
| Adus | We have Wal-Mart in the UK, in the form of Asda | Oct 08 16:06 |
| Adus | And yes, Supermarkets are pretty ruthless | Oct 08 16:06 |
| DaemonFC | I know that | Oct 08 16:06 |
| DaemonFC | I used to be in middle management there | Oct 08 16:06 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Oct 08 16:06 |
| DaemonFC | and at Rent A Center | Oct 08 16:07 |
| DaemonFC | their customers make Walmart customers look downright classy | Oct 08 16:07 |
| Adus | where are you now? | Oct 08 16:07 |
| DaemonFC | what do you expect from someone that's too stupid to figure out that they are agreeing to pay $1500 interest on $300 principle? | Oct 08 16:07 |
| Adus | haha | Oct 08 16:07 |
| Adus | Isn't that sort of irresponsible? | Oct 08 16:08 |
| DaemonFC | disabled, a couple of reasons, do some odd stuff for people now and then | Oct 08 16:08 |
| DaemonFC | Adus: Not when you're missing teeth and drink your paycheck | Oct 08 16:08 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Oct 08 16:08 |
| DaemonFC | anything else you do after that is kind of an also-ran | Oct 08 16:08 |
| Adus | I am missing a tooth. Though they took that out to make room for my wisdom tooth | Oct 08 16:09 |
| Adus | so that doesn't count :p | Oct 08 16:09 |
| DaemonFC | I have all my teeth | Oct 08 16:09 |
| DaemonFC | I'm fanatical about that | Oct 08 16:09 |
| Adus | I just have the one missing, at the very back on the top right hand side. | Oct 08 16:09 |
| DaemonFC | I spent $200 just to have a chip repaired, lol | Oct 08 16:09 |
| Adus | Though my wisdom tooth is there now anyway | Oct 08 16:09 |
| Adus | So it makes no different | Oct 08 16:09 |
| Adus | difference* | Oct 08 16:10 |
| DaemonFC | I had my wisdom teeth out | Oct 08 16:10 |
| Adus | it was like "We can take out your tooth, and let the widsom tooth take it's place. Or we can break your jaw and take out your wisdom teeth which will be very painful" | Oct 08 16:10 |
| Adus | so I went for option 1 :p | Oct 08 16:10 |
| DaemonFC | was gonna cost $3,500 but I took COBRA to keep my insurance from my last job going for another month at $600 | Oct 08 16:10 |
| DaemonFC | and got that done right away | Oct 08 16:10 |
| DaemonFC | COBRA lets you keep your insurance for 6 months but you have to pay your former employers part as well | Oct 08 16:11 |
| Adus | We get dental cover at Microsoft. And healthcare is free in the UK (we also get private health cover as well, but I never use it) | Oct 08 16:11 |
| Adus | but dental care is not free, so that's a nice work perk | Oct 08 16:11 |
| DaemonFC | I'll have Medicare next May | Oct 08 16:12 |
| DaemonFC | I'll still need gap insurance to cover the remaining 20% they don't pay | Oct 08 16:12 |
| DaemonFC | that can add up fast, especially at $3,000 a day to just be IN the hospital | Oct 08 16:12 |
| DaemonFC | (or more) | Oct 08 16:12 |
| Adus | I always get the free healthcare, cause the insurance company pays you if you do that :p | Oct 08 16:13 |
| DaemonFC | or the $100 copay on $500 bottle of pills | Oct 08 16:13 |
| DaemonFC | they rape you in the US | Oct 08 16:13 |
| schestowitz | The KDE news site has been down for many hours today | Oct 08 16:13 |
| Adus | Like, if you spend a night in an NHS hospital, they give you money | Oct 08 16:13 |
| DaemonFC | unless you can get a generic for something that's like almost 20 years old | Oct 08 16:13 |
| DaemonFC | that may only cost $4 a bottle | Oct 08 16:13 |
| DaemonFC | give you money to stay in the hospital? | Oct 08 16:14 |
| DaemonFC | O_O | Oct 08 16:14 |
| Adus | Yep. The NHS is our free healthcare as I'm sure you know | Oct 08 16:14 |
| Adus | but I have private cover with Microsoft. So if I get ill, and use an NHS hospital | Oct 08 16:14 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, I have some idea | Oct 08 16:14 |
| Adus | the insurance company will pay me | Oct 08 16:14 |
| Adus | for not going to the private hospital | Oct 08 16:14 |
| Adus | and claiming from them | Oct 08 16:14 |
| DaemonFC | that's funny | Oct 08 16:14 |
| Adus | So like, if I was having heart surgery, I'd use the private hospital, as it's generally better quality care | Oct 08 16:15 |
| DaemonFC | anyway, have to go, bbl | Oct 08 16:15 |
| Adus | but for a broken arm | Oct 08 16:15 |
| Adus | I'd rather get the £300 :p | Oct 08 16:15 |
| Adus | See ya | Oct 08 16:15 |
| *DaemonFC has quit ("Leaving") | Oct 08 16:15 | |
| *Omar87 (n=omar@79.173.230.141) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 16:20 | |
| schestowitz | wb, Omar87 | Oct 08 16:21 |
| schestowitz | How's the post you speak of coming along? | Oct 08 16:21 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, thanks. :) | Oct 08 16:21 |
| Omar87 | Okay now, I've been asking myself this question for quite some time: | Oct 08 16:22 |
| schestowitz | write it down while you remember | Oct 08 16:22 |
| schestowitz | Then you can look it up later | Oct 08 16:23 |
| schestowitz | That's how I do academic research | Oct 08 16:23 |
| schestowitz | [and also BN stuff] | Oct 08 16:23 |
| schestowitz | I still take notes with Palm+keyboard to be used later | Oct 08 16:23 |
| Omar87 | If distros like PC-BSD are not Linux-based BSD-based, why are they mentioned in Distrowatch? Or id Distrowatch not Linux-dedicated? | Oct 08 16:24 |
| Omar87 | is* | Oct 08 16:24 |
| schestowitz | They are distros too | Oct 08 16:24 |
| schestowitz | Distro does not have to be Linux | Oct 08 16:24 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, true. | Oct 08 16:24 |
| schestowitz | BSD+KDE4->PC-BSD | Oct 08 16:24 |
| Omar87 | Yeah, that's right. :) | Oct 08 16:28 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, What do you think of this title for the post I've told you about: "Microsoft, herassing the human mind once again, this time at JUST"? | Oct 08 16:29 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Distrowatch also covers Solaris distros. Some of them are rather nice. | Oct 08 16:33 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Anyway, gotta run. See u later. | Oct 08 16:33 |
| *TheMadHatter_ has quit ("Page closed") | Oct 08 16:34 | |
| *MinceR subtracts the BSD from the PC | Oct 08 16:36 | |
| *schestowitz catches up | Oct 08 16:42 | |
| schestowitz | Omar87: good title, but don't say JUST | Oct 08 16:42 |
| schestowitz | It makes it hard to grasp for intl' readers | Oct 08 16:42 |
| schestowitz | Put JUST in the post body | Oct 08 16:42 |
| Adus | What the hell is JUST? | Oct 08 16:48 |
| schestowitz | JUST !google it | Oct 08 16:48 |
| schestowitz | !google JUST | Oct 08 16:48 |
| phIRCe | [1] - Just Jared | http://justjared.buzznet.com/ | Oct 08 16:48 |
| phIRCe | [2] - Just Manufacturing Home | http://www.justmfg.com/ | Oct 08 16:48 |
| phIRCe | [3] - Just Definition | Definition of Just at Dictionary.com | http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/just | Oct 08 16:48 |
| phIRCe | [4] - Just Sinks Home Page | http://www.justsinks.com/ | Oct 08 16:48 |
| schestowitz | !google JUST jordan linux | Oct 08 16:49 |
| phIRCe | [1] - Jordan Linux Users Group | Human Knowledge Belongs To The World | http://www.jolug.org/ | Oct 08 16:49 |
| phIRCe | [2] - Meeting | Jordan Linux Users Group | http://www.jolug.org/ar/taxonomy/term/3 | Oct 08 16:49 |
| phIRCe | [3] - Jordan's Linux User Group: a techno-social phenomena - 360east ... | http://www.360east.com/%3Fp%3D9 | Oct 08 16:49 |
| phIRCe | [4] - Linux Online - Opinion: SCO - Should I buy? Should I sell?... | http://www.linux.org/news/opinion/sco_stock.html | Oct 08 16:49 |
| Adus | I did google it :p | Oct 08 16:49 |
| trmanco | well | Oct 08 17:03 |
| trmanco | bbt | Oct 08 17:03 |
| trmanco | !quit phIRCe | Oct 08 17:03 |
| *phIRCe has quit ("Exiting! phIRCe - I told you so!(http://bitbucket.org/trmanco/phirce/)") | Oct 08 17:03 | |
| schestowitz | Is Twitter messed up? | Oct 08 17:04 |
| trmanco | yes | Oct 08 17:04 |
| schestowitz | Ah | Oct 08 17:04 |
| schestowitz | So it's not just me then | Oct 08 17:04 |
| trmanco | cya... | Oct 08 17:05 |
| Adus | twitter is always messed up | Oct 08 17:05 |
| Adus | Seems that it's not exactly the web engineering feet of the 21st century, it goes down more often than gmail these days :p | Oct 08 17:06 |
| Adus | feat* | Oct 08 17:06 |
| schestowitz | Built badly | Oct 08 17:09 |
| schestowitz | Too many queries due to number of users | Oct 08 17:09 |
| schestowitz | Digg had similar issues | Oct 08 17:09 |
| schestowitz | Some still persist. Bad programming with 'social' things and uber-queries | Oct 08 17:10 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, I've had the same idea too. (About not saying JUST) | Oct 08 17:14 |
| schestowitz | Depends on your target audience | Oct 08 17:14 |
| schestowitz | "Vista 7" is now familiar | Oct 08 17:14 |
| schestowitz | I got many people passing the name | Oct 08 17:15 |
| schestowitz | It makes people associate V7 with Vista, as they ought to | Oct 08 17:15 |
| schestowitz | "What? You didn't like Vista? Well, you won't like v7, either." | Oct 08 17:15 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, The UI in Win 7, a mere KDE-clone. | Oct 08 17:20 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, the desktop gadgets are 10000% identical to those of KDE!! | Oct 08 17:21 |
| *natasiel has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Oct 08 17:22 | |
| *ThistleWeb (n=gordon@unaffiliated/thistleweb) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 17:23 | |
| *kentma has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Oct 08 17:23 | |
| schestowitz | Omar87: well, KDE been out for a while :-) | Oct 08 17:24 |
| schestowitz | Vista 7 not even out yet | Oct 08 17:24 |
| schestowitz | And KDE4 doesn't have the same feature | Oct 08 17:24 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, yeah I know! | Oct 08 17:25 |
| schestowitz | KDE4 does not have viruses, DRM, and patch Tuesdays for example | Oct 08 17:25 |
| schestowitz | So KDE4 has catching up to do, antifeatures-wise | Oct 08 17:25 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, But it makes my stomach aches even more when I realize that the majority of people where I live won't even realize that! | Oct 08 17:26 |
| schestowitz | Show them | Oct 08 17:44 |
| schestowitz | They'll show others | Oct 08 17:44 |
| schestowitz | Use YouTube links also | Oct 08 17:44 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, I will. | Oct 08 17:52 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, but right now I'm squeezing my mind for appropriate words to weave my blog article with. | Oct 08 17:53 |
| bozo_ | http://www.embedded.com/underthehood/219100633?pgno=1 | Oct 08 18:09 |
| *TheMadHatter_ (i=63ee03e6@gateway/web/freenode/x-zadnqfezttoqnhgh) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 18:13 | |
| TheMadHatter_ | Roy, you around? | Oct 08 18:13 |
| *zer0c00l (n=user@117.199.128.200) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 18:14 | |
| *jono has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Oct 08 18:15 | |
| TheMadHatter_ | ok, I'll just drop this here then, and you can get it later.n | Oct 08 18:16 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Ever hear of Rick Berman? | Oct 08 18:17 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Rick_Berman | Oct 08 18:17 |
| TheMadHatter_ | He has a company that specializes in what I call bullshit pumping | Oct 08 18:18 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Berman_%26_Co. | Oct 08 18:18 |
| *jono (n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 18:18 | |
| TheMadHatter_ | I have heard that they sometimes do work for ACT, and other organizations which have ties to Microsoft | Oct 08 18:19 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Microsoft | Oct 08 18:19 |
| TheMadHatter_ | A while back I was doing a bit of research for an article that didn't come together, and a DVD I was watching last night brought it back to me. | Oct 08 18:20 |
| TheMadHatter_ | I assume you've heard of Michael Moore, the documentary film maker. Well, there are a series of websites dedicated to criticizing Moore. | Oct 08 18:20 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Like Moore Watch | Oct 08 18:21 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.moorewatch.com/ | Oct 08 18:21 |
| TheMadHatter_ | And Michael Moore Exposed | Oct 08 18:21 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.mooreexposed.com/ | Oct 08 18:21 |
| schestowitz | yeah, here.. | Oct 08 18:23 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Now the fun part is, both of these sites look like they were designed by Berman. I compared them to some other sites that he's known to be associated with, for example the Center for Consumer Freedom | Oct 08 18:23 |
| schestowitz | Berman is a big criminal | Oct 08 18:23 |
| schestowitz | Dr. Evil's Payday | Oct 08 18:24 |
| schestowitz | ,----[ Quote ] | Oct 08 18:24 |
| TheMadHatter_ | http://www.consumerfreedom.com/ | Oct 08 18:24 |
| schestowitz | | Who pulled off this publicity stunt? Credit Richard | Oct 08 18:24 |
| schestowitz | | Berman, one of Washington's most notorious PR operatives, | Oct 08 18:24 |
| schestowitz | | whose exploits Mother Jones and others have been | Oct 08 18:24 |
| schestowitz | | chronicling for years. Nicknamed Dr. Evil—a moniker he | Oct 08 18:24 |
| schestowitz | | embraces—he's the force behind several industry-backed | Oct 08 18:24 |
| schestowitz | | nonprofits that share staff and office space with his very | Oct 08 18:24 |
| schestowitz | | for-profit communications and advertising firm, Berman and | Oct 08 18:24 |
| schestowitz | | Company. The firm promises clients it will not "just | Oct 08 18:24 |
| schestowitz | | change the debate" but "start" one, and a range of | Oct 08 18:24 |
| schestowitz | | companies, from Anheuser-Busch to Philip Morris to the | Oct 08 18:24 |
| schestowitz | | casino chain Harrah's, have signed up for Berman's | Oct 08 18:24 |
| schestowitz | | "aggressive" and "hard-hitting" advocacy. Some clients pay | Oct 08 18:24 |
| schestowitz | | Berman and Co. directly, while others donate to his | Oct 08 18:24 |
| schestowitz | | nonprofits—but much of the cash winds up in the same | Oct 08 18:24 |
| schestowitz | | place, via hefty management fees the front groups pay to | Oct 08 18:24 |
| schestowitz | | Berman's company. | Oct 08 18:24 |
| schestowitz | `---- | Oct 08 18:24 |
| schestowitz | http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/09/hidden-interests-dr-evils-payday | Oct 08 18:24 |
| schestowitz | any berman-ms link? | Oct 08 18:25 |
| schestowitz | Or act? | Oct 08 18:25 |
| schestowitz | I need evidence | Oct 08 18:25 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Yes. And it appears that Berman is fronting opposition to Michael Moore. Note that I said appears, I can't prove anything. | Oct 08 18:25 |
| schestowitz | got links? | Oct 08 18:25 |
| schestowitz | All i have are some words in irc | Oct 08 18:25 |
| schestowitz | Moore does well | Oct 08 18:26 |
| schestowitz | There are many companies out there that would pay folks to do ad hominem vs him.. | Oct 08 18:26 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Well, that's where it gets interesting. As I said, I don't have anything solid. What I noticed was that the anti-Michael Moore sites use the same wording as the tobacco industry sites Berman is known to run. | Oct 08 18:26 |
| schestowitz | Same with RMS.. | Oct 08 18:26 |
| schestowitz | Berman should be executed, IMHO | Oct 08 18:26 |
| schestowitz | But I'm not a law enforcer, though | Oct 08 18:26 |
| schestowitz | Berman's own son called him a "son of a b*tch" IIRC | Oct 08 18:27 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Yeah, well, here is where I get into paranoid suspicions. The wording used by Perlow and Lefty looks damned similar to the wording on the Berman sites. | Oct 08 18:27 |
| schestowitz | Oh, actually... | Oct 08 18:27 |
| schestowitz | He called his dad "m*therf.." | Oct 08 18:27 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Yeah. | Oct 08 18:27 |
| TheMadHatter_ | You know I keep a watch on a variety of sites? | Oct 08 18:28 |
| schestowitz | TheMadHatter_: JPerlow is here | Oct 08 18:28 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Smart kid. | Oct 08 18:28 |
| TheMadHatter_ | It's OK if Perlow sees this. That's why I'm doing it in IRC instead of email. | Oct 08 18:29 |
| TheMadHatter_ | I'm putting my suspicions on record you might say. | Oct 08 18:30 |
| schestowitz | TheMadHatter_: he's not a shill | Oct 08 18:30 |
| schestowitz | He works for IBM | Oct 08 18:30 |
| schestowitz | IBM is against Free software, to a large degree | Oct 08 18:30 |
| schestowitz | IBM wants to tame it with patents and stuff | Oct 08 18:30 |
| schestowitz | TheMadHatter_: he said so himself regarding suspicious | Oct 08 18:30 |
| schestowitz | I said "good to have you around" | Oct 08 18:31 |
| schestowitz | He replied with something like "I think you'll regret saying it.." | Oct 08 18:31 |
| schestowitz | Maybe marbux-esque, I dunno... | Oct 08 18:31 |
| TheMadHatter_ | Right now I'm wondering why so many things seem to have common elements. | Oct 08 18:31 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow also liked the company of Adus, a Microsoft employees | Oct 08 18:32 |
| schestowitz | *singular | Oct 08 18:32 |
| schestowitz | I don't understand why Microsoft employee choose to just go to this one IRC channel | Oct 08 18:32 |
| TheMadHatter_ | And when I say common elements, similar wordings, similar ways of criticism. | Oct 08 18:32 |
| schestowitz | Anyway..... | Oct 08 18:32 |
| schestowitz | About Berman, if you find something, tell me | Oct 08 18:32 |
| Adus | Because I thought it would be entertaining | Oct 08 18:32 |
| Adus | which it is | Oct 08 18:32 |
| schestowitz | I'd love to show him linked to Zuck & Thugs | Oct 08 18:32 |
| schestowitz | Adus: glad you enjoy it | Oct 08 18:32 |
| schestowitz | Next wqeek we hand out V7 napkins and balloons. That's more entertaining | Oct 08 18:33 |
| *tessier has quit (Connection reset by peer) | Oct 08 18:33 | |
| TheMadHatter_ | Believe me, I'm looking. I have some other people who aren't from the Free Software community (tobacco activists actually) also looking. | Oct 08 18:33 |
| Omar87 | TheMadHatter_, hello sir! :) | Oct 08 18:33 |
| *tessier (n=treed@mail.copilotco.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 18:33 | |
| TheMadHatter_ | It all comes down to the money. If we can follow the money.... | Oct 08 18:34 |
| Adus | If you would like me to leave, I will schestowitz | Oct 08 18:35 |
| *Lns (n=lns@75-149-52-89-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 18:35 | |
| TheMadHatter_ | Of course I may be totally out to lunch on this. But coincidence rarely is. | Oct 08 18:35 |
| *zer0c00l (n=user@117.199.128.200) has left #boycottnovell ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)") | Oct 08 18:37 | |
| TheMadHatter_ | Anyway Jason, since Roy says you are here, I thought your article on RMS was pretty bad. Liked the illustration though. | Oct 08 18:38 |
| schestowitz | His brother made it | Oct 08 18:42 |
| schestowitz | A better illustration for de Icaza maybe would be a gecko-money hybrid | Oct 08 18:43 |
| schestowitz | *monkey (mono | Oct 08 18:43 |
| schestowitz | He's quite a gecko (changing colours) for money boy | Oct 08 18:44 |
| schestowitz | *monkeyboy even | Oct 08 18:44 |
| *PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving") | Oct 08 18:44 | |
| TheMadHatter_ | Yeah, well it won't do him much good. | Oct 08 18:44 |
| schestowitz | It won't look professional | Oct 08 18:45 |
| schestowitz | I don't trust the gecko and the mono (monkey) | Oct 08 18:45 |
| schestowitz | I trust the gnu | Oct 08 18:45 |
| schestowitz | And penguin to a limited extent | Oct 08 18:45 |
| TheMadHatter_ | The most important thing is to remember how Microsoft treats their partners. | Oct 08 18:45 |
| *PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 18:45 | |
| TheMadHatter_ | Anyway, gotta run. Got work to do. See you. | Oct 08 18:48 |
| *TheMadHatter_ has quit ("Page closed") | Oct 08 18:48 | |
| *twitter has quit (SendQ exceeded) | Oct 08 18:48 | |
| *JoeSomebody (i=Joeso@blk-215-90-156.eastlink.ca) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 18:50 | |
| JoeSomebody | hello. strange question perhaps, is there a channel for ms windows haters ? :) | Oct 08 18:50 |
| JoeSomebody | specifically vista? | Oct 08 18:50 |
| JoeSomebody | someone told me to come here and ask | Oct 08 18:51 |
| JoeSomebody | well i'll try ya later then | Oct 08 18:51 |
| *gargoyle-grin has quit ("Leaving.") | Oct 08 18:51 | |
| JoeSomebody | "vista haters " irc channel | Oct 08 18:55 |
| JoeSomebody | oops | Oct 08 18:55 |
| Omar87 | Anyone around? | Oct 08 19:00 |
| *bvmw (n=notranc@zima.linwin.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 19:01 | |
| ThistleWeb | JoeSomebody: why spend your life hating something? | Oct 08 19:03 |
| JoeSomebody | i am a repair tech, i spend my life fixing their mess it seems | Oct 08 19:04 |
| JoeSomebody | i also use linux now, and gettin a mac next year | Oct 08 19:04 |
| ThistleWeb | so you get paid to fix windows, and you want to choose to spend your spare time still in that mindset? | Oct 08 19:04 |
| Adus | Besides, if there were no PCs to fix, you'd be out of a job | Oct 08 19:05 |
| ThistleWeb | why not put that energy to some positive use and promote linux instead | Oct 08 19:05 |
| JoeSomebody | oh believe me i will be | Oct 08 19:05 |
| JoeSomebody | in my city i will be setting an example | Oct 08 19:05 |
| JoeSomebody | i am not quite ready yet | Oct 08 19:06 |
| Omar87 | Adus, I agree. | Oct 08 19:06 |
| ThistleWeb | besides, any vista haters congregations will be rather busy | Oct 08 19:06 |
| JoeSomebody | " we do linux!!!" | Oct 08 19:06 |
| ThistleWeb | it's not exactly an uncommon thing lol | Oct 08 19:06 |
| JoeSomebody | ThistleWeb i guess you are right, i gotta forget the jerks making me so mad | Oct 08 19:06 |
| Adus | yeh, those pesky Microsoft programmers. | Oct 08 19:07 |
| Omar87 | JoeSomebody, how about trying to convince people to use Linux when come asking you for help? | Oct 08 19:07 |
| JoeSomebody | just who got more money to fix stuff? but they dont, and cant seem to fix anything without breaking 100 mote things | Oct 08 19:07 |
| ThistleWeb | it might be healthy to go let off steam | Oct 08 19:08 |
| JoeSomebody | i am already trying to convert people, and its my little company's new objective | Oct 08 19:08 |
| Adus | Take up boxing. | Oct 08 19:08 |
| JoeSomebody | LOL | Oct 08 19:08 |
| ThistleWeb | but it's more likely to draw you into a loop where nothing happens | Oct 08 19:08 |
| JoeSomebody | i used to be a dos and novell man, now since i heard about that ms novell thing, i am against novell now too, not that i bother with it anyway anymore | Oct 08 19:10 |
| Omar87 | lots of my friend have had their friends and families switch to Linux just by showing them the lovely, virusless, bloatless environment. | Oct 08 19:10 |
| JoeSomebody | started before dos, with tandy trs-80 | Oct 08 19:10 |
| Omar87 | Some had to go a bit further by showing off some cool compiz effects. | Oct 08 19:11 |
| JoeSomebody | i am going to make a list of every program my current customers use, and try to find the best linux equivalents, then try a bunch, then launch my flyers, etc. | Oct 08 19:12 |
| Omar87 | JoeSomebody, Great idea. | Oct 08 19:12 |
| JoeSomebody | i plan to give them reduced training rates just to get htme to come over | Oct 08 19:12 |
| JoeSomebody | i plan to give them reduced training rates just to get them to come over | Oct 08 19:12 |
| JoeSomebody | i type bad sorry | Oct 08 19:12 |
| Adus | That sounds like the worst business model I have ever heard | Oct 08 19:12 |
| JoeSomebody | why? | Oct 08 19:13 |
| Adus | because then people won't need you, and you'll be out of a job? :p | Oct 08 19:13 |
| ThistleWeb | for me it's the little things, like Linux knowing when you rename a file that you want to keep the .ext part the same, so it automatically separates that | Oct 08 19:14 |
| *ThistleWeb lost count of the number of times I forgot that in windows and it tells me changing the extention may make it unstable | Oct 08 19:14 | |
| JoeSomebody | well they will call every now and then 4 linux lessions maybe, and tell their friends how their bad computer is now always good | Oct 08 19:14 |
| Adus | Then turn on "Hide extensiosn for known file types" | Oct 08 19:14 |
| Adus | and it wont let you change it? :p | Oct 08 19:14 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Vista7 Cheated People Regarding Speed http://bit.ly/JL0R1 via @trmanco | Oct 08 19:15 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] FSF Tells Charities to Reject Vista 7 for Its Sins http://bit.ly/1VnYyo | Oct 08 19:15 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #SteveBallmer Does Not Know #Microsoft Gives Its Software Away as Debt Grows http://techdirt.com/articles/20091007/0122226438.shtml | Oct 08 19:15 | |
| schestowitz | Twitter wakes up? | Oct 08 19:15 |
| schestowitz | The API was hibernating | Oct 08 19:15 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Dell Reaffirms Commitment to #GNU #Linux Desktops http://bit.ly/Rx8XU | Oct 08 19:16 | |
| schestowitz | [19:13] <Adus> because then people won't need you, and you'll be out of a job? :p | Oct 08 19:16 |
| schestowitz | It's called the Broken Windows theory | Oct 08 19:16 |
| schestowitz | Breaking a window to make jobs | Oct 08 19:16 |
| schestowitz | And Microsoft also gives jobs to crackers | Oct 08 19:16 |
| schestowitz | This is a negative | Oct 08 19:16 |
| schestowitz | But Adus, being a Microsoft employee, spins without shame | Oct 08 19:17 |
| Adus | That's not what broken window theory describes at all :p | Oct 08 19:17 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] This Whole #GNU #Linux Thing is Getting Totally Out of Hand http://bit.ly/2YqfiA | Oct 08 19:17 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Profile of the Brain Behind #PulseAudio http://bit.ly/QTTOI | Oct 08 19:18 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Desktop #GNU #Linux is Doing Great, More People Migrate to It http://bit.ly/3PoUyG http://www.shotinthedark.info/wp/?p=5508 http://bit ... | Oct 08 19:18 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Top #Supercomputers ( #HPC ): #Linux a Hundred Times More Used Than #Windows http://bit.ly/3O4d0N | Oct 08 19:18 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Distributed Web #Servers Built with Free Software at All Layers (GNU/Linux/Apache/Hadoop) http://bit.ly/1iNK5g | Oct 08 19:19 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ZFS in #Linux #Kernel Space Still a Future Possibility http://bit.ly/vgbPd | Oct 08 19:20 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #GNOME Shell is Released http://bit.ly/9cQ9t | Oct 08 19:20 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] KOffice 2.1 Has New Beta, More KDE4 Software Emerges http://bit.ly/an0pr http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4072 http://bit.ly/kjsNT htt ... | Oct 08 19:20 | |
| Adus | I also think you are far too quick to label people. Microsoft is a big company. You make out like everyone is working on Windows. | Oct 08 19:20 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Quake Live Becomes a Selling Points to Gamers on #GNU #Linux http://www.itwire.com/content/view/28357/1162/ | Oct 08 19:21 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat Spreads #GNU #Linux #Education in #Asia http://www.itwire.com/content/view/28340/1090/ http://bit.ly/1qtJ4Z | Oct 08 19:21 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Gentoo Still the Most Popular Source-based Distribution http://bit.ly/asV9T | Oct 08 19:22 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat Attains Hypervisor Compatibility with Windows (/Without/ Patent Extortion) http://bit.ly/14KnKZ | Oct 08 19:22 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat Enjoys Excellent Time with #GNU #Linux Demand http://bit.ly/2DanK http://bit.ly/dJNkw | Oct 08 19:22 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Debian #Hackers Around the World Mapped http://bit.ly/M90ca | Oct 08 19:23 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Debian and Derivatives Got it Right with #Sudo http://bit.ly/10jziv #sudomakemesandwich | Oct 08 19:23 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu COLA Better Than Windows Cola http://bit.ly/24M8Rg | Oct 08 19:24 | |
| schestowitz | Twitter suddenly work up | Oct 08 19:24 |
| Adus | What's twitter written in? PHP? | Oct 08 19:25 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Review of the Latest Ubuntu Netbook Remix http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/unr.html | Oct 08 19:25 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Kubuntu 9.10 ( #KDE 4.3.1) Kicks #Vista7 in the Rear http://bit.ly/41K8Q | Oct 08 19:25 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Many Improvements Find in Latest #GNU #Linux ( #Ubuntu 9.10) http://www.circlingthesun.co.za/?p=172 http://bit.ly/oji0C | Oct 08 19:25 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Embedded #Linux Found at Centre of New Kit http://bit.ly/SFI9H #debian | Oct 08 19:25 | |
| *ThistleWeb has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Oct 08 19:25 | |
| schestowitz | RoR | Oct 08 19:25 |
| Adus | Oh, that surprises me actually | Oct 08 19:25 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Nokia #N900 #Smartphone in Video Review http://bit.ly/DL3Bg #linux | Oct 08 19:26 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Motorola Gets Closer to Linux/Google http://bit.ly/10wMFu | Oct 08 19:26 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Jolicloud Bring Back Small Clients with #GNU #Linux http://bit.ly/1R2YRA #thinclient | Oct 08 19:26 | |
| Adus | I've heard mixed things about the performance of RoR in high end environments like that | Oct 08 19:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] http://bit.ly/150kyH #Freedomware Initiative Explained | Oct 08 19:27 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Government Success Story in German Schools http://www.egovmonitor.com/node/29337 | Oct 08 19:29 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #FreeSoftware Success Stories in Business (NYT on GPL) http://bit.ly/enIgo | Oct 08 19:29 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #GNU Debugger, #Firefox 3.6 Beta Comes Shortly http://bit.ly/5Dtka | Oct 08 19:29 | |
| *Diablo-D3 (n=diablo@68.238.49.173) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 19:29 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Pelosi Support #FreeSoftware in Voting http://bit.ly/15eYX2 | Oct 08 19:30 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Almost the Entire #PublicSector in #France Uses #FreeSoftware http://www.egovmonitor.com/node/29338 | Oct 08 19:30 | |
| *PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving") | Oct 08 19:31 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Web #Standards and How Fork of #KHTML Takes Over the Web http://bit.ly/1uVOta | Oct 08 19:31 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Economist and #AssociatedPress Decide to Die Sooner http://bit.ly/1NmLWy http://bit.ly/3BUYz | Oct 08 19:31 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #IntellectualMonopolies Attack #YouTube Art http://bit.ly/3yVNTh http://techdirt.com/articles/20091007/0153146440.shtml | Oct 08 19:32 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #IntellectualMonopolies Abused to Censor Ralph Lauren's Digital #Bulimia http://techdirt.com/articles/20091006/2245076436.shtml | Oct 08 19:32 | |
| *PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 19:32 | |
| JoeSomebody | wha tis all this ? | Oct 08 19:33 |
| JoeSomebody | [3:32pm] *BNc(#boycottnovell)* [schestowitz] #IntellectualMonopolies Abused to Censor Ralph Lauren's Digital #Bulimia http://techdirt.com/articles/20091006/2245076436.shtml | Oct 08 19:33 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Wil Wheaton Abused by the #MAFIAA http://techdirt.com/articles/20091007/1404196452.shtml | Oct 08 19:33 | |
| JoeSomebody | i never saw a chan like this before | Oct 08 19:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | like what? | Oct 08 19:44 |
| schestowitz | JoeSomebody: it's a Twitter issue | Oct 08 19:53 |
| schestowitz | It had 2-hour lag | Oct 08 19:53 |
| schestowitz | And then caught up when the service 'woke up' | Oct 08 19:54 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Anf the never-ending series of Linux sucess stories goes on, http://bit.ly/vD2U3 | Oct 08 20:18 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] And the never-ending series of #Linux success stories goes on, http://bit.ly/vD2U3 | Oct 08 20:21 | |
| *Adus has quit () | Oct 08 20:21 | |
| schestowitz | Pics of the Day : UTUTO on Lemote ! http://erp.ututo.org/album/index.php?album=ututoxs%2FYeelong | Oct 08 20:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | JoeSomebody: its a bot that repeats twitter | Oct 08 20:32 |
| schestowitz | Look at that video preview: http://identi.ca/notice/11616383 "@aseigo exactly. I personally think "cloud' is a hype term for old ideas. I call it #fogcomputing for fun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UYa6gQC14o" | Oct 08 20:37 |
| schestowitz | Identica now extracts images from videos and put them in pages. Very nice! | Oct 08 20:37 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: got an account in microblogging? I could add it to the aggregation | Oct 08 20:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im on identi.ca | Oct 08 20:38 |
| schestowitz | "@skreech2 They over-simplify. Mac vs PC... like Republicans vs Democrats." | Oct 08 20:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | except macs are clearly the democrats | Oct 08 20:39 |
| schestowitz | Democrats have more than 4% | Oct 08 20:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes, but democrats piss me off less | Oct 08 20:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | and theres still more republicans than democrats out there | Oct 08 20:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | I wonder if this makes the libertarians linux users. | Oct 08 20:40 |
| *P|scean has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Oct 08 20:45 | |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3, add me: LoopHole87 | Oct 08 20:47 |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3, on identi.ca that is. | Oct 08 20:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | I think you meant to say that to schestowitz | Oct 08 20:48 |
| *Diablo-D3 wonders what schestowitz's identica account is | Oct 08 20:49 | |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3, both of you. :) | Oct 08 20:49 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Slight flaw with me making flapjack with the kids. I eat it when they're in bed :S | Oct 08 20:54 | |
| *JPerlow (n=jason@ool-18bbbd87.dyn.optonline.net) has left #boycottnovell ("Konversation terminated!") | Oct 08 21:02 | |
| *PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving") | Oct 08 21:03 | |
| *jono has quit ("Later, Skater") | Oct 08 21:05 | |
| *PetoKraus (n=pk@host-77-247-224-25.isper.sk) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 21:05 | |
| *jono (n=jono@c-67-164-47-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 21:09 | |
| schestowitz | Re Apple and Microsoft http://identi.ca/notice/11616869 "@schestowitz Good marketing. People like a easy to follow battle. once you have "won" get a new opponent and repeat" | Oct 08 21:21 |
| *satipera (i=540d87f0@gateway/web/freenode/x-nmfahjqvagtubhbw) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 21:22 | |
| satipera | I am thinking about using spideroak as online backup drive etc anyone know of anything better or have an opinion on spideroak? | Oct 08 21:24 |
| *jono has quit ("Later, Skater") | Oct 08 21:27 | |
| *jono (n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 21:27 | |
| Diablo-D3 | hey, whats the best linux app for identica? | Oct 08 21:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | the jabber backend sucks dick | Oct 08 21:29 |
| *jono has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) | Oct 08 21:29 | |
| *_goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 21:29 | |
| *jono (n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 21:29 | |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3, I agree, it's time for some Identi.ca Firefox add-ons to appear already. | Oct 08 21:30 |
| *dhanie (i=7da53e5c@gateway/web/freenode/x-qgyuqlhfgiwggtfp) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 21:30 | |
| Diablo-D3 | meh, don't quite want that either | Oct 08 21:31 |
| dhanie | hi | Oct 08 21:31 |
| *Diablo-D3 tries gwibber | Oct 08 21:31 | |
| satipera | hi | Oct 08 21:31 |
| dhanie | what? | Oct 08 21:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | Omar87: erm | Oct 08 21:37 |
| *PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving") | Oct 08 21:37 | |
| Diablo-D3 | http://status.net/wiki/Apps#Firefox_extensions | Oct 08 21:37 |
| *dhanie has quit ("Page closed") | Oct 08 21:40 | |
| _goblin | hello all... | Oct 08 21:40 |
| _goblin | bye dhanie...thanks for your input...come again soon. | Oct 08 21:40 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] It appears some commenters on Indiana Greggs blog have a problem with quoting correctly what I say.I wonder if Ms Gregg will respond? | Oct 08 21:43 | |
| Omar87 | _goblin, hey there! | Oct 08 21:46 |
| _goblin | hi! | Oct 08 21:50 |
| _goblin | sorry afk! | Oct 08 21:50 |
| _goblin | been responding to a massive amount of email! | Oct 08 21:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | I should microblog more | Oct 08 21:53 |
| MinceR | yoctoblog instead | Oct 08 21:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | except every time I try, I end up writing ten times more than the limit | Oct 08 21:54 |
| _goblin | 140 chars for me is far too restrictive ....I like to waffle. | Oct 08 21:54 |
| _goblin | mind you Twitter is good for one liners and hooks to sites. | Oct 08 21:54 |
| _goblin | why am I stating the obvious to people who already know? | Oct 08 21:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | _goblin: twitter basically commercialized what I was doing on my blog way before they were around | Oct 08 21:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | see the side column on my blog | Oct 08 21:55 |
| MinceR | commercialized? :> | Oct 08 21:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: they make money on the vast bullshit that is the internet | Oct 08 21:56 |
| MinceR | they make money? | Oct 08 21:56 |
| MinceR | i thought their big problem was that they had no idea how to make money with what they were doing | Oct 08 21:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | yet they still have investors | Oct 08 21:57 |
| Omar87 | I know Joi Ito for example. | Oct 08 22:00 |
| Omar87 | One of the famous investors in Twitter. | Oct 08 22:00 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Uses New #Vapourware http://ping.fm/pHmEn | Oct 08 22:01 | |
| schestowitz | Twitter just got $100,000,000 in investment | Oct 08 22:03 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: I use the kde widgets for microblogging | Oct 08 22:03 |
| satipera | popey which one of you podcasters lives in devizes? | Oct 08 22:05 |
| popey | ciemon | Oct 08 22:05 |
| popey | why? | Oct 08 22:05 |
| satipera | I live there /here so close geographically so far away with linux knowledge | Oct 08 22:06 |
| satipera | heard it on one of your podcasts | Oct 08 22:06 |
| popey | :) | Oct 08 22:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: wern't you going to make the bot listen to me? =P | Oct 08 22:08 |
| satipera | Popey I had a look on twitter saw his photo, I think I saw him and his mrs in morrisons tonight :) | Oct 08 22:16 |
| satipera | seriously pm him and ask him :) | Oct 08 22:20 |
| satipera | If I see him again I will ask him if he is the ubuntu bloke. | Oct 08 22:23 |
| *satipera has quit ("Page closed") | Oct 08 22:32 | |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: it needs hacking to work on identica | Oct 08 22:32 |
| *satipera (i=540d87f0@gateway/web/freenode/x-ladrqogxmbaaeepa) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 22:32 | |
| schestowitz | In the manchester FS IRC channel someone did it | Oct 08 22:33 |
| *P|scean (n=kvirc@66-191-19-87.dhcp.rsbg.or.charter.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 22:33 | |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: the bot should be put in a git repo so everyone can merge their shit in | Oct 08 22:33 |
| MinceR | lol | Oct 08 22:33 |
| *MinceR merges in some code to op himself | Oct 08 22:34 | |
| Diablo-D3 | what? | Oct 08 22:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | you know what I meant | Oct 08 22:34 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: https://svn.bitfolk.com/repos/twitfolk/trunk/twitfolk.pl | Oct 08 22:35 |
| schestowitz | "Add identi.ca support, (largely untested) patch from Robert Leverington." http://svn.bitfolk.com/view/twitfolk/trunk/twitfolk.pl?view=log&sortdir=down&pathrev=961 | Oct 08 22:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | ahh, still | Oct 08 22:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | it should work right | Oct 08 22:36 |
| schestowitz | " | Oct 08 22:36 |
| schestowitz | This seems the wrong way to do identi.ca support, long term. I think it would | Oct 08 22:36 |
| schestowitz | be best to store whether it is twitter.com or identi.ca in the friends list and | Oct 08 22:36 |
| schestowitz | have connections open to both. This will have to do for now. | Oct 08 22:36 |
| schestowitz | " | Oct 08 22:36 |
| schestowitz | I use an older version | Oct 08 22:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | yeah, that obviously is dumb | Oct 08 22:36 |
| MinceR | i wonder if java already has or soon will have the ability to free up objects once all references to them are lost, instead of waiting for the garbage collector to start | Oct 08 22:39 |
| MinceR | (and if so, whether there's a mechanism to break circular references before the gc can catch them) | Oct 08 22:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: uh, thats what the garbage collector is for | Oct 08 22:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | to free up objects that no longer are referenced | Oct 08 22:40 |
| MinceR | but it doesn't act immediately | Oct 08 22:40 |
| MinceR | only from time to time | Oct 08 22:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | it shouldnt | Oct 08 22:41 |
| MinceR | in large batches | Oct 08 22:41 |
| MinceR | what i meant is what reference counting does | Oct 08 22:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | doing it constantly will slow the app down considerably and cause a lot of fragmentation | Oct 08 22:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | it _also_ prohibits object recycling | Oct 08 22:41 |
| MinceR | it also allows destructors to run in the proper time :> | Oct 08 22:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | destructors are not guaranteed to run anyhow | Oct 08 22:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | what you want is java7 finalization | Oct 08 22:42 |
| MinceR | now that's interesting | Oct 08 22:42 |
| *MinceR looks it up | Oct 08 22:42 | |
| Diablo-D3 | http://download.java.net/jdk7/docs/api/java/lang/Object.html#finalize%28%29 | Oct 08 22:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | g1gc will call those sooner than later | Oct 08 22:43 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-144-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 22:43 | |
| MinceR | ic | Oct 08 22:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | finalize has been around forever, thats the destructor for ojects | Oct 08 22:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | but its been ran like shit | Oct 08 22:44 |
| *Omar87 has quit ("Rebooting Karmic after a heavy update.") | Oct 08 22:44 | |
| Diablo-D3 | it basically doesn't work if you _need_ it to be ran | Oct 08 22:45 |
| _Hicham_ | u have to resort to manual object destruction | Oct 08 22:46 |
| _Hicham_ | garbage collectors have pitfalls | Oct 08 22:46 |
| _Hicham_ | but are good | Oct 08 22:46 |
| _Hicham_ | for non mission critical projects | Oct 08 22:46 |
| _Hicham_ | but python's garbage collector seems to do just fine | Oct 08 22:46 |
| MinceR | python uses both reference counting and garbage collection | Oct 08 22:47 |
| MinceR | if the reference counting doesn't catch stuff immediately, the gc will eventually | Oct 08 22:47 |
| MinceR | at least so they say | Oct 08 22:47 |
| _Hicham_ | the problem with python is that it needs more marketing | Oct 08 22:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: anyhow, deconstructors in java are a rather bad idea | Oct 08 22:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: g1gc just handles them better | Oct 08 22:48 |
| MinceR | ic | Oct 08 22:48 |
| _Hicham_ | java is what is now because of Sun's marketing | Oct 08 22:48 |
| _Hicham_ | and Java is not 100% free | Oct 08 22:49 |
| MinceR | i've read that they aren't guaranteed to be called at all | Oct 08 22:49 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @blue_cat_online: Hero Cage Fighters In Drag Win Global Fame. http://bit.ly/21qHLH | Oct 08 22:49 | |
| MinceR | because the object might just stay around forever | Oct 08 22:49 |
| _Hicham_ | Diablo-D3 : do u use Sun's JDK ? | Oct 08 22:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | _Hicham_: oh shut up | Oct 08 22:49 |
| _Hicham_ | or OpenJDK ? | Oct 08 22:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | java is 100% free | Oct 08 22:49 |
| _Hicham_ | Diablo-D3 : Sun's JDK is 100% free ? | Oct 08 22:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | java is 100% free | Oct 08 22:50 |
| MinceR | reading about RAII got me interested in this thing again | Oct 08 22:50 |
| _Hicham_ | Diablo-D3 : what about Sun's proprietary API ? | Oct 08 22:51 |
| _Hicham_ | now u get nasty warning everytime u use it | Oct 08 22:51 |
| cubezzz | Stallman talks about the "java trap" | Oct 08 22:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | _Hicham_: sun's apis are not part of java. | Oct 08 22:51 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: the whole Perl script is a hack | Oct 08 22:52 |
| MinceR | java is still nonfree? | Oct 08 22:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: java is 100% free | Oct 08 22:52 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft CEO Admits #Vista7 Won’t Sell PCs http://ping.fm/gND37 | Oct 08 22:52 | |
| schestowitz | I'd need to run two bots to do identica as well | Oct 08 22:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | its dual licensed cddl and gplv2 | Oct 08 22:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: meh, then do it | Oct 08 22:52 |
| MinceR | Diablo-D3: what about the sw patents? | Oct 08 22:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: thats a different issue, and does not effect the freeness of the software | Oct 08 22:52 |
| MinceR | actually it does | Oct 08 22:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | fsf and eff hold patents, do we automatically stop using their software because of them? | Oct 08 22:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | nope, we dont | Oct 08 22:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | its the intent of the patents | Oct 08 22:53 |
| MinceR | as long as sw patents can be used to make sw illegal, they're part of the issue | Oct 08 22:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | sun has no intent on attacking the foss community | Oct 08 22:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | ie, their biggest customer | Oct 08 22:53 |
| MinceR | if you're allowed to use/modify/distribute the software by copyright law, but forbidden to do so by patent law, it's still non-free | Oct 08 22:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: wrong | Oct 08 22:54 |
| MinceR | the FSD says nothing about patents, it is concerned with effects. | Oct 08 22:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | due to the fact, for the large part, software patents are illegal. | Oct 08 22:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | I have no clue why the supreme court hasn't struck that nonsense down already | Oct 08 22:54 |
| MinceR | usian courts seem to mostly disagree with you on that | Oct 08 22:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: so? | Oct 08 22:54 |
| MinceR | see above. | Oct 08 22:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | patent law and the concept of such is rather easy to understand | Oct 08 22:54 |
| satipera | sensible day month year format, it is not what BN is using now. | Oct 08 22:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | you can't patent books, music, or art, or things that aren't real | Oct 08 22:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | you can't patent things that are, for the most part, a vehicle for free speech | Oct 08 22:55 |
| cubezzz | plus they do expire | Oct 08 22:55 |
| *omar (n=omar@79.173.230.141) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 22:55 | |
| Diablo-D3 | since code is considered a form of free speech, software cannot be patented. | Oct 08 22:55 |
| MinceR | yyyy-mm-dd is what's sensible. | Oct 08 22:55 |
| *omar is now known as Omar87 | Oct 08 22:55 | |
| Diablo-D3 | and yes, MinceR, it is still intent | Oct 08 22:55 |
| MinceR | Diablo-D3: i wonder how many courts would consider code free speech. | Oct 08 22:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: some already have ruled on that | Oct 08 22:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | the FSF should just get off their asses and push the issue | Oct 08 22:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | but they wont because they're wimps | Oct 08 22:56 |
| MinceR | in one way and in another | Oct 08 22:56 |
| MinceR | they won't because the state of things isn't convincing yet | Oct 08 22:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | anyhow, I trust Sun not to intentionally push themselves into bankruptcy | Oct 08 22:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | I _do_ trust Microsoft to push themselves into bankruptcy | Oct 08 22:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | so yes, java is 100% free. | Oct 08 22:57 |
| cubezzz | well, that would be nice | Oct 08 22:57 |
| cubezzz | how long I wonder :) | Oct 08 22:57 |
| *Balrog (n=Balrog@pool-173-59-71-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 22:57 | |
| MinceR | you have an interesting definition of "100%" there. | Oct 08 22:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: all software patents probably have already been filed | Oct 08 22:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | if we go by your definition, there is no such thing as free. | Oct 08 22:58 |
| cubezzz | btw, I think the FSF gave Java the thumbs up in 2006 | Oct 08 22:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | freedom is merely defined as who wants to sue who | Oct 08 22:59 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, can you believe that a book about Windows 7 was release already by O'reilly? | Oct 08 22:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | Sun will very and most obviously sue the fuck out of closed source vendors who cause problems for their customers | Oct 08 22:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | their customers happen to be companies and individuals who rely on foss code, sun originated or not | Oct 08 22:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | So yes, I do trust Sun until they do something that would make me think otherwise. | Oct 08 23:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | Sun's biggest problem is Microsoft, and interacting with the foss community the way they do is to destroy microsoft | Oct 08 23:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | they open sourced java firstly to stop microsoft's .net.... they did it secondly for the normal reasons of decreasing bugs and security flaws | Oct 08 23:01 |
| MinceR | Diablo-D3: you mean there's no such thing as patents in the public domain and patents owned by organizations whose sole purpose is to keep those patents usable by the FLOSS community? | Oct 08 23:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: basically no | Oct 08 23:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: but thats called "intent" | Oct 08 23:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | patents held to make sure the public can use them is purely an intent | Oct 08 23:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | sun has an intent to protect foss, thus they are trustworthy | Oct 08 23:02 |
| MinceR | you believe sun has such an intent | Oct 08 23:02 |
| MinceR | i don't trust them that much | Oct 08 23:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | sun has an intent because it is their way of getting money | Oct 08 23:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | the java community must be kept whole | Oct 08 23:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | microsoft, otoh, wants to fracture the java community | Oct 08 23:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | they'd love if they could get a shitstorm going on between, say, sun and apache | Oct 08 23:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | virtually all the big java projects are either sun or apache | Oct 08 23:03 |
| MinceR | hm, there's one more thing that i missed | Oct 08 23:04 |
| MinceR | there's a sure way to make patented software free: by providing a proper patent license. | Oct 08 23:04 |
| MinceR | GPLv3 does just that. | Oct 08 23:04 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: what's your account there? | Oct 08 23:04 |
| schestowitz | http://identi.ca/diablod3 | Oct 08 23:05 |
| schestowitz | Got it | Oct 08 23:05 |
| *P|scean has quit ("KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: , sources date: 20090115, built on: 2009/03/07 02:39:30 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/") | Oct 08 23:07 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] #Gaza zoo paints donkeys to look like zebras: http://bit.ly/tGosP | Oct 08 23:10 | |
| *Lns has quit ("Φ") | Oct 08 23:10 | |
| satipera | Okay Roy please tell me why do you stick with your to my mind "odd" year month day format. | Oct 08 23:10 |
| satipera | No not like that, the way you do it. You know what I mean. | Oct 08 23:11 |
| *BNi () has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 23:15 | |
| schestowitz | satipera: in the blog? | Oct 08 23:16 |
| satipera | what? | Oct 08 23:17 |
| satipera | yes | Oct 08 23:17 |
| satipera | takes a bit of time :) | Oct 08 23:17 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: try now | Oct 08 23:18 |
| MinceR | ...so what i should have asked is whether patent licenses to patents on java owned by sun are included with java. | Oct 08 23:19 |
| satipera | Roy left to right, or right to left, make your mind up. | Oct 08 23:21 |
| satipera | (date format) | Oct 08 23:22 |
| schestowitz | There was another person with an identica account here | Oct 08 23:23 |
| schestowitz | Was that you, satipera? | Oct 08 23:23 |
| schestowitz | Maybe cubezzz | Oct 08 23:23 |
| schestowitz | satipera: yeah, the IRC server works like that | Oct 08 23:23 |
| satipera | roy believe me this is the truth . I do not know what you are talking about. | Oct 08 23:24 |
| satipera | how many times do I have to say it w2indows refugee. More of an interest in the politics of the situation | Oct 08 23:25 |
| satipera | because my tech knowledge is getting to zero. | Oct 08 23:28 |
| schestowitz | "SEARCH RIVALS Microsoft and Google are looking to integrate real-time Twitter feeds into their results, according to reports." http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1558006/microsoft-google-woo-twitter | Oct 08 23:28 |
| schestowitz | Windows 7 does not boot faster < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1557924/windows-boot-faster < | Oct 08 23:29 |
| satipera | asked advice on irc earlier was not surprised to be ignored, that is not a bad thing just this way | Oct 08 23:30 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, I have an identi.ca account, Roy. | Oct 08 23:30 |
| satipera | Roy am I under suspicion ? | Oct 08 23:32 |
| *Xarver (n=kenny@cpe-76-173-101-172.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 23:33 | |
| *BNc has quit ("Caught SIGINT, bye.") | Oct 08 23:34 | |
| *BNi has quit ("Caught SIGINT, bye.") | Oct 08 23:34 | |
| *P|scean (n=kvirc@66-191-19-87.dhcp.rsbg.or.charter.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 23:35 | |
| satipera | seriously roy I would like a reply. I will not ask again , you can make your own mind up over time. | Oct 08 23:38 |
| schestowitz | "When Microsoft settled its antitrust battle with the Computer & Communications Industry Association earlier this month, the CCIA's top executive--an outspoken critic of Microsoft--was paid nearly $10 million, the Financial Times has reported." | Oct 08 23:40 |
| schestowitz | http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-139940.html | Oct 08 23:40 |
| schestowitz | satipera: reply to what? I don't quite follow. | Oct 08 23:41 |
| *BNi () has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 23:43 | |
| *BNc () has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 23:43 | |
| satipera | roy, you more or less accused me of being a dodgy online person, I can understand you being suspicious but I am mainly on your side. | Oct 08 23:46 |
| *BNi has quit (Client Quit) | Oct 08 23:47 | |
| *BNi () has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 23:47 | |
| *BNi has quit (Client Quit) | Oct 08 23:48 | |
| *BNi () has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 08 23:48 | |
| schestowitz | Oh, no.. satipera ... miunderstanding there | Oct 08 23:49 |
| schestowitz | satipera: I thought you once told me you had an identi.ca account, which I can finally add | Oct 08 23:49 |
| schestowitz | I've finally sorted out the script | Oct 08 23:49 |
| schestowitz | satipera: no, you totally misundertood maybe cause I was ambiguous | Oct 08 23:50 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3 I added a while ago, but it's totally separate | Oct 08 23:50 |
| schestowitz | Omar87 used to have just identica account IIRC and I could not add him | Oct 08 23:50 |
| schestowitz | Those with just identica I can now add. | Oct 08 23:51 |
| cubezzz | there's ident but I could never get it to work | Oct 08 23:51 |
| cubezzz | port 113 I think | Oct 08 23:51 |
| schestowitz | In what sense? | Oct 08 23:51 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, just identi.ca? | Oct 08 23:51 |
| schestowitz | BNi syndicates from identi.ca now | Oct 08 23:51 |
| schestowitz | BNc does Twitter | Oct 08 23:51 |
| schestowitz | It can't do both in the same process | Oct 08 23:51 |
| schestowitz | And I needed to get the very latest version | Oct 08 23:52 |
| schestowitz | Burned an hour getting it all sorted. Needed to install some Perl PMs from CPAN | Oct 08 23:52 |
| cubezzz | something about my dlink router | Oct 08 23:52 |
| satipera | Roy let me explain. I am joe average who does not understand much that is happening in irc, I can believe you think i am not on your side. but i do not know why. | Oct 08 23:52 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/08/dell_closing_north_carolina_plant/ | Oct 08 23:52 |
| schestowitz | satipera: I know you're on the good side | Oct 08 23:53 |
| cubezzz | some uucp systems use port 113 | Oct 08 23:53 |
| cubezzz | some email servers too | Oct 08 23:53 |
| cubezzz | probably not nowadays though | Oct 08 23:53 |
| satipera | well ty for that roy, because i just felt like i was guantanimo'd | Oct 08 23:55 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/08/ralph_lauren_photoshop/ | Oct 08 23:55 |
| schestowitz | Heh. | Oct 08 23:55 |
| schestowitz | Still getting all that unwanted puiblicity | Oct 08 23:55 |
| schestowitz | satipera: heh. no. | Oct 08 23:56 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, what is a just identi.ca account? | Oct 08 23:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | back | Oct 08 23:56 |
| schestowitz | Actually, there are very few here who ever do harm. | Oct 08 23:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: sorry, I was eating support | Oct 08 23:56 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: it's sorted now | Oct 08 23:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | what do you want me to do? | Oct 08 23:56 |
| schestowitz | post a message in identi.ca | Oct 08 23:57 |
| schestowitz | BNi ought to pick it up (cycle is 5 minutes for update, but I can change that) | Oct 08 23:57 |
| schestowitz | "Psychologists in Canada have revealed new research suggesting that people who become eco-conscious "green consumers" are "more likely to steal and lie" than others." http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/08/greens_are_thieves_and_liars_say_trick_cyclists/ | Oct 08 23:58 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.6 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
