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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 18th, 2009

Chips_B_Malroybut still could not competeOct 18 00:00
fewaits a inequality of governmentsOct 18 00:00
fewaif you have free flow of capital, but not labor you have capital voting for the most opressive regimesOct 18 00:00
fewathats why they always talk about ChinaOct 18 00:00
Chips_B_Malroyits about money, the powers that be, the rich shifting wealth and controlOct 18 00:00
fewawhat about India? Russia? Brazil?Oct 18 00:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Vassal #BECTA at Risk of Abolishment http://ur1.ca/dtym:19:25:00Z #crony #puppetOct 18 00:00
phIRCeTitle: ur1 Generator .::. Size~: 2.27 KBOct 18 00:00
fewano, because they want all those countries to be as opressive as ChinaOct 18 00:01
fewaBrazil is doing it wellOct 18 00:01
oiaohmBrazil is ahead in a lot of things.  Including the use of biofuels.Oct 18 00:01
fewaIndia understands anglo-american propaganda and controlOct 18 00:01
fewaoiaohm, and real biofuelsOct 18 00:01
fewanot sham cornOct 18 00:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] How to get a refund on Windows - http://tinyurl.com/yl9qosb #microsoft #windows #xp #vista #win7 #foss #linux #opensourceOct 18 00:01
phIRCeTitle: The Linux Mint Blog  » Blog Archive   » Windows license refund donated to Mint .::. Size~: 18.11 KBOct 18 00:01
fewawhich is only used due to massive protectionism and subsidizesOct 18 00:02
oiaohmCars in Brazil lot of them can run on anything like the old model T could.Oct 18 00:02
Chips_B_Malroyso NAFTA took away the good manufacturing jobs, which left mostly service jobs for the middle class.  Illegal imigration caused those jobs to stay at the same pay rate for many yearsOct 18 00:02
oiaohmPeople forget the first car 100 percent biofuel compadible was the Model TOct 18 00:02
fewaChips_B_Malroy, no, immigration is good, if there was free flow of labor then people would have a state in economics'Oct 18 00:03
fewathe people would move to the best governmentOct 18 00:03
*EDavidBurg (n=eric@unaffiliated/edavidburg) has joined #boycottnovellOct 18 00:03
fewa(now there are alot of other problems)Oct 18 00:03
oiaohmWe have just gone down hill since then.  Law should simple past word wide if car cannot run on the same ranges of fuel as the model T it cannot be sol.Oct 18 00:03
Chips_B_MalroyNo the people will not always move to the best government.  They will move to the country that provides the highest standard of livingOct 18 00:04
fewathe mobilization of people was highest in the 19th centuryOct 18 00:04
fewait is _way_ downOct 18 00:04
fewaand this is a opressive formOct 18 00:04
Diablo-D3I wish people would quit saying biofuelOct 18 00:04
Diablo-D3its like its special or somethingOct 18 00:04
Diablo-D3its notOct 18 00:04
Diablo-D3diesel is dieselOct 18 00:04
Diablo-D3this is the entire point of the diesel engineOct 18 00:04
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fewaDiablo-D3, yepOct 18 00:04
fewaeveryone tries to pretend things are newOct 18 00:04
oiaohmWhat I am refering to is not diesel its petrol replacementOct 18 00:05
fewaethanolOct 18 00:05
Diablo-D3I dont know why people would used oil diesel thoughOct 18 00:05
Diablo-D3its rather inefficientOct 18 00:05
fewabut biodiesel is betterOct 18 00:05
Diablo-D3and it tends to ruin diesel enginesOct 18 00:05
Diablo-D3all the filter changing and cleaning shit and shitOct 18 00:05
fewabiodiesel much better than ethanolOct 18 00:05
oiaohmIe petrol style engines that can run on ethanol and methanol.Oct 18 00:05
Diablo-D3algea biodisel is the most efficient shit out there for that kind of shitOct 18 00:05
oiaohmIf they are designed right.Oct 18 00:05
Diablo-D3oiaohm: problem is ethanol sucksOct 18 00:05
oiaohmMethanol is lot simpler and can be produced in larger ammounts Oct 18 00:06
fewaelectricOct 18 00:06
fewawe have the batteries for it these daysOct 18 00:06
fewaand with an extensive wind deployment it would work very wellOct 18 00:06
Diablo-D3electric doesnt seem like the right answerOct 18 00:06
fewaand geothermalOct 18 00:06
Diablo-D3oiaohm: and btw, noOct 18 00:06
oiaohmMethanol also can be used in fuel cells for electricOct 18 00:06
fewaelectric cars are powerfulOct 18 00:06
Diablo-D3methanol and ethanol doesnt seem like the right answerOct 18 00:06
fewaand much lighterOct 18 00:06
Chips_B_Malroyanyone else old enough to remember when they took out the trolleys?Oct 18 00:06
Diablo-D3and fewa, why bring up geothermalOct 18 00:06
fewaand they dont need repairOct 18 00:06
fewaDiablo-D3, cause its a big potential source of electricityOct 18 00:07
fewathe US has lots of itOct 18 00:07
oiaohmYou can produce disel from wood.Oct 18 00:07
fewain Idaho and WyomingOct 18 00:07
fewaoiaohm, wood, wtfOct 18 00:07
oiaohmEarly stage of that process you get MethanolOct 18 00:07
fewawood is valuableOct 18 00:07
fewamaybe hemp or somethingOct 18 00:07
oiaohmBasically anything with cellouse.Oct 18 00:07
fewabut word is really valuableOct 18 00:07
amarsh04queensland premier wants to produce aviation fuel from algae and waste co2Oct 18 00:07
Chips_B_Malroywood is a renewable source, but not clean burningOct 18 00:07
fewaChips_B_Malroy, not very renewableOct 18 00:08
fewaChips_B_Malroy, _much_ less efficient than hempOct 18 00:08
oiaohmfewa:  even old degraded wood can be put threw the process.Oct 18 00:08
fewaand it destroys streams, rivers, and biodiversityOct 18 00:08
Diablo-D3fewa: I think you misunderstoodOct 18 00:08
fewaever seen an old growth forrest?Oct 18 00:08
Chips_B_MalroyI used to be a wood burner, 5 1/2 cords a winterOct 18 00:08
Diablo-D3one is good as the otherOct 18 00:08
fewaits beautifulOct 18 00:08
Diablo-D3geothermal, tidal, normal hydro, solar, windOct 18 00:08
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Diablo-D3all as good as the otherOct 18 00:09
fewagrow hemp for fiberOct 18 00:09
fewamuch for efficientOct 18 00:09
Chips_B_Malroycut my own firewood tooOct 18 00:09
fewaDiablo-D3, tidal and solar I havnt seen much promiseOct 18 00:09
oiaohmThe process for produce desile from wood can be used on like the waste from suger production...  yes the junk from production not what we want to eat.Oct 18 00:09
Diablo-D3erm, fewa Oct 18 00:09
fewabut i could be mistakenOct 18 00:09
Diablo-D3in ireland they have a commercial tidal plantOct 18 00:09
Chips_B_Malroybut I only cut dead cured trees that produced less pollutionOct 18 00:09
Diablo-D3they love itOct 18 00:09
fewacoolOct 18 00:09
Diablo-D3its not experimental, its an actual commercial plantOct 18 00:10
fewawell then i am mistakenOct 18 00:10
fewawould work hereOct 18 00:10
Diablo-D3tidal obviously only works in areas that have high tidesOct 18 00:10
oiaohmYou cannot get ethanol out the process to produce desiel from wood.Oct 18 00:10
Diablo-D3but all ares on the planet fits somethingOct 18 00:10
fewaDiablo-D3, is it ponds?Oct 18 00:10
Diablo-D3fewa: no, the oceanOct 18 00:10
fewaand then a dam?Oct 18 00:10
fewathats what i meanOct 18 00:10
Diablo-D3ponds dont suffer from tidesOct 18 00:10
fewaa giant poolOct 18 00:10
fewathat has a dammed gateOct 18 00:10
Chips_B_Malroywind farms seem to work here, except for the birds that fly into themOct 18 00:11
Diablo-D3fewa: noOct 18 00:11
fewato the oceanOct 18 00:11
fewaDiablo-D3, how does it work?Oct 18 00:11
oiaohmDiablo-D3:  How much food does current day bio desiel destroy.Oct 18 00:11
fewaoiaohm, ummmOct 18 00:11
Diablo-D3oiaohm: it should be zero because I do not recognize corn biodiselOct 18 00:11
fewalook at corn ethanol oiaohm Oct 18 00:11
Diablo-D3corn products are worthlessOct 18 00:11
fewatotally worthlessOct 18 00:11
Diablo-D3corn sucks at producing anythingOct 18 00:11
Diablo-D3biodiesel or ethanolOct 18 00:11
Diablo-D3its shitOct 18 00:11
fewait wouldn't be grown if not for subsidizesOct 18 00:11
fewaand its only subsidized cause it raises food pricesOct 18 00:12
Diablo-D3algae can produce ten thousand times more per acre of bothOct 18 00:12
oiaohmThat is my problem  most biodiesel and ethanol is too food consoming.Oct 18 00:12
fewaelectricOct 18 00:12
Diablo-D3oiaohm: btw, this is a false argumentOct 18 00:12
mutxonly because oil is so cheap to dig up, wait until there is none left, Oct 18 00:12
fewaelectric makes senseOct 18 00:12
Diablo-D3they're not consuing foodOct 18 00:12
Diablo-D3oiaohm: the corn is not grown for foodOct 18 00:12
Diablo-D3its grown for thisOct 18 00:12
fewano engine to maintain, ligher vehiclesOct 18 00:12
oiaohmWhat do they do with the celeouse from the corn Diablo-D3Oct 18 00:12
Diablo-D3oiaohm: dispose of itOct 18 00:12
fewaand you can get rid of the trillion dollar petrol distribution networkOct 18 00:12
Diablo-D3its shitOct 18 00:12
oiaohmThat is usable.Oct 18 00:12
Diablo-D3corn is not worth anything but foodOct 18 00:12
Balrog_oiaohm: what about biodiesel from waste cooking oil?Oct 18 00:13
fewaDiablo-D3, not even for thatOct 18 00:13
oiaohmmethonal production Diablo-D3Oct 18 00:13
Diablo-D3hey, I like eating cornOct 18 00:13
fewaif you have ever grown it you knowOct 18 00:13
fewacorn eats nitrogenOct 18 00:13
fewaand a very small percentage is foodOct 18 00:13
fewavery inefficientOct 18 00:13
Diablo-D3that isnt itOct 18 00:13
Diablo-D3its food people otOct 18 00:13
fewamost corn is grown for cowsOct 18 00:13
Diablo-D3*eatOct 18 00:13
Diablo-D3its not food cars eatOct 18 00:13
fewavery little for human consumptionOct 18 00:13
*mrsteveman1 (n=mrstevem@oh-65-40-70-189.sta.embarqhsd.net) has joined #boycottnovellOct 18 00:13
fewaand its from monsantoOct 18 00:13
oiaohmBalrog_: there is not enough of that.Oct 18 00:13
Diablo-D3congress needs to be fired for interfering with the futureOct 18 00:13
fewayou can tell cause all the stalks are the same heighOct 18 00:14
Balrog_true, but a lot of it currently goes to wasteOct 18 00:14
mutxwhat do the people do with the cows ?Oct 18 00:14
fewaits really earieOct 18 00:14
Diablo-D3algae is the best at producing biodiselOct 18 00:14
oiaohmNot exactly Diablo-D3Oct 18 00:14
Diablo-D3you cant beat itOct 18 00:14
Diablo-D3periodOct 18 00:14
Diablo-D3oiaohm: dont not exactly meOct 18 00:14
fewaDiablo-D3, what goes to waste?Oct 18 00:14
Diablo-D3its more efficient per dollar and per acre than anything in the worldOct 18 00:14
Diablo-D3fewa: in algea processing? nothingOct 18 00:14
Chips_B_MalroyIs it next week the next quarterly profit statement come out from M$?Oct 18 00:14
oiaohmwood conversion base produces equal if not more stable biodiesel.Oct 18 00:14
fewao whoops Balrog_ what goes to waste?Oct 18 00:15
Diablo-D3oiaohm: wrongOct 18 00:15
fewaChips_B_Malroy, yepOct 18 00:15
Diablo-D3algae basically has no wasteOct 18 00:15
Balrog_waste cooking oilOct 18 00:15
fewawood is not goodOct 18 00:15
oiaohmNeither does wood based Diablo-D3Oct 18 00:15
Chips_B_Malroyshould be revealingOct 18 00:15
Diablo-D3it almost literally turns sunlight into biodieselOct 18 00:15
fewayet, you can use wood for heat, ive done itOct 18 00:15
Balrog_Chips_B_Malroy: and Apple profit statements tooOct 18 00:15
fewabut not everyone canOct 18 00:15
oiaohmIts a power plant.Oct 18 00:15
Diablo-D3oiaohm: exceot it has a carbon foodprint for just processing itOct 18 00:15
fewahemp if you need land based fiberOct 18 00:15
oiaohmBoth techs used toeghter have there advantages Diablo-D3Oct 18 00:16
Diablo-D3and we should be using neitherOct 18 00:16
Diablo-D3we should be using solid state electronicsOct 18 00:16
fewagod, wood is useless, do you people know how long it takes to get a loggable forrest? how much demand there is for the wood? how much logging exceeds production?Oct 18 00:16
fewaand you have to hand plantOct 18 00:16
oiaohmfewa:  the wood line is celouse base production Ie wood is simpler to type.Oct 18 00:17
fewawood is good for constructionOct 18 00:17
oiaohmLot of things have celouse.Oct 18 00:17
fewabut not anything elseOct 18 00:17
fewathen say hempOct 18 00:17
fewathats the best cellolose producerOct 18 00:17
oiaohmAnything that is cellolose can be put threw the process.Oct 18 00:17
fewaor hay for places without waterOct 18 00:17
Chips_B_MalroyThe thing about wood burning being poluting is over done.  If you leave the dead trees in the forest, at some point you are going have a forest fire.  This have been proven time and time again in the USA.  Its better to burn it for heat and decrease the need or other fuels, as its the same amount of pollution from woodburner or a forest fireOct 18 00:18
oiaohmBasically garbage reduction.Oct 18 00:18
fewaChips_B_Malroy, that wasn't my point at allOct 18 00:18
Chips_B_MalroyI knowOct 18 00:18
fewaThe problem is that demand for cutting far outpaces growthOct 18 00:18
fewaand that every time you cut, you destroy alotOct 18 00:18
Chips_B_Malroyso you limit to dead trees onlyOct 18 00:18
fewamuch better to use actual farmsOct 18 00:19
oiaohmalgae does not help with our land fill problem.Oct 18 00:19
fewaChips_B_Malroy, no loggers do thatOct 18 00:19
Chips_B_Malroylot of national forests out here do thatOct 18 00:19
fewa_none_Oct 18 00:19
mutxour demand of oil and coal also vastly outpaces our growth, so should we keep doing i t?Oct 18 00:19
oiaohmI have a good story hear I guess you hear that logging on fraser Island Australian was stoped.Oct 18 00:19
Chips_B_Malroyyou are correct, commerial loggers do not, but the public mostly has toOct 18 00:19
fewahem, ive never seen itOct 18 00:19
fewaeven in "public" logginsOct 18 00:19
fewaas in the school's parcelOct 18 00:20
fewathey did a good job and left some seed treesOct 18 00:20
oiaohmThe stupid part about fraser Island is you could grow a tree on that island in 20 years that is the size of that same tree on the main land that is 70 to 80 years old.Oct 18 00:20
fewabut just taking downed logs really doesn't happen, at least around hereOct 18 00:20
oiaohmIe grown in sand.Oct 18 00:20
Chips_B_Malroythat was in ColoradoOct 18 00:20
oiaohmHydroponic trees.Oct 18 00:20
fewahydroponics are awesomeOct 18 00:20
fewayou can grow without using excessive amounts of waterOct 18 00:21
oiaohmNatural Hydroponic trees.Oct 18 00:21
oiaohmAnd we cannot log them.Oct 18 00:21
Chips_B_Malroyanyway, woodburner is not the anwser, it would only help a littleOct 18 00:21
fewathe so-called "green revolution" was based on polluting the soil, the environment, and using lots of oil-based fertilizersOct 18 00:21
fewaand hydroponics is the solutionOct 18 00:21
fewano run-offOct 18 00:21
fewaits greatOct 18 00:22
oiaohmBasically careful selection from the information from fraser we could reduce the area we need to log.Oct 18 00:22
oiaohmAnd have the area recover faster.Oct 18 00:22
fewamain thing is just to plant after you logOct 18 00:22
fewathats what most deforrestation comes from Oct 18 00:22
fewathose that dont plantOct 18 00:22
Chips_B_Malroybut even here, the gov is being used by special interests, where only the commercial companies can cut, and permits are never handed out to other (general public) in some areasOct 18 00:22
oiaohmfewa: 20 years same size tree as 80 year old.Oct 18 00:22
oiaohmSince it grew a lot faster.Oct 18 00:22
fewaoiaohm, ahh, great growth placeOct 18 00:23
oiaohmYou only need to log 1/4 the area to get the same ammount of wood.Oct 18 00:23
fewayeah we have places like that around hereOct 18 00:23
oiaohmThere has to be other areas the same.Oct 18 00:23
fewapacific northwest grows fastOct 18 00:24
fewanear the sea levelOct 18 00:24
oiaohmAreas that grow slow should be off limits to logging.Oct 18 00:24
fewaoiaohm, agreedOct 18 00:24
fewabut they usually dont fallow thatOct 18 00:24
Chips_B_MalroyI almost had to leave my house twice because of forest fires, that were caused by the creation of wilderness areas that were closed to the public for cutting of dead woodOct 18 00:24
oiaohmOver hear we are going back to yearly burns in wilderness areas.Oct 18 00:25
oiaohmAt the correct times of years so its not scary.Oct 18 00:25
fewaoiaohm, what type of trees do you have in australia?Oct 18 00:25
oiaohmPart of the USA problem is the complete fear of fire.Oct 18 00:25
fewafirs deciduous pine?Oct 18 00:25
fewaoiaohm, the US has changedOct 18 00:26
fewaat least in the westOct 18 00:26
fewacontroled burnsOct 18 00:26
oiaohmWe do have pines.  Most of ours are gums.Oct 18 00:26
Chips_B_Malroywould it not be more sensable to let home users cut the dead trees for firewood than to set the fires?  This would save on fosel fuels to heat in winterOct 18 00:26
mutxEucliptious, very oily and very fire prone, we have very very bad bush fires here.Oct 18 00:26
mutxAll the time.Oct 18 00:26
oiaohmBasically most of our trees are designed to burn and burn fast.Oct 18 00:27
oiaohmAnd live.Oct 18 00:27
fewaChips_B_Malroy, most of the places where this is happening there are not many localsOct 18 00:27
fewabut yes, you are rightOct 18 00:27
Chips_B_Malroypines and aspens in colorado where I used to cutOct 18 00:27
amarsh04eucalyptus oil will run a petrol internal combustion engine fineOct 18 00:27
Chips_B_Malroythey were localsOct 18 00:27
fewathey need to allow locals to gather brushOct 18 00:28
oiaohmThere is not one eucalyptus oil.  Each tree type produces different oils.Oct 18 00:28
fewalike they did in 17th century JapanOct 18 00:28
oiaohmThe most nasty one I have seen smells nice but is highly crossive.Oct 18 00:28
fewaoiaohm, any old growth forrest there?Oct 18 00:28
mutxtrouble is in Aus there are massive forests, and a few people.Oct 18 00:28
fewa*theirOct 18 00:28
fewathereOct 18 00:28
oiaohmWe do fewaOct 18 00:28
Chips_B_Malroythe gov was evectively being lobbyed by the electric companies to stop home firewood gatheriersOct 18 00:29
oiaohmSome areas humans have not fully explored here fewaOct 18 00:29
fewaObama has announced that they will allow logging the Alaska wildernessOct 18 00:29
fewawhere the forrest grows slow and there is no roadsOct 18 00:29
fewathe roads will cost more than the profitOct 18 00:29
oiaohmSome areas of Alaska might be fine.Oct 18 00:29
fewabut while the profits are to logging companies, the roads are paid by the publicOct 18 00:29
Chips_B_Malroyfirewood is too expensive unless you cut your ownOct 18 00:30
fewaoiaohm, but not if there isn't roadsOct 18 00:30
oiaohmBut most of it could be bad growning.Oct 18 00:30
fewaits too expensiveOct 18 00:30
Chips_B_Malroyits a very backbreaking work tooOct 18 00:30
oiaohmBoats fewaOct 18 00:30
fewaand that far north the wood is pretty fragiveOct 18 00:30
fewa*fragileOct 18 00:30
fewayou cut the trees and they wont grow backOct 18 00:30
Chips_B_Malroyits why I only cut dead fallening down treesOct 18 00:30
fewawill hurt caribouOct 18 00:30
oiaohmYou would have to survey the area fewaOct 18 00:31
fewaChips_B_Malroy, yeah thats coolOct 18 00:31
oiaohmThere could be a pocket of two like fraser.Oct 18 00:31
fewaoiaohm, has been done, after heavy public pressure Clinton did not log itOct 18 00:31
Chips_B_MalroyI am mostly against the commercial loggers, the way they do thingsOct 18 00:31
fewaannouced the great compramise that if roads are not there, it wont be loggedOct 18 00:31
fewawhich is a fiscally sound decisionOct 18 00:31
fewalogging a unroaded area costs more than it provides, even in the short termOct 18 00:32
Chips_B_Malroythey close the roads in the national forests all the timeOct 18 00:32
Chips_B_Malroyand create the forest fires hereOct 18 00:32
fewaChips_B_Malroy, if there were built once, they are still repairableOct 18 00:32
fewaohh, diffOct 18 00:32
Chips_B_Malroythe federal gov closes themOct 18 00:32
oiaohmIt depends on the loggers.Oct 18 00:32
Chips_B_Malroynot only to loggers, but to everyoneOct 18 00:33
fewaif they plant right after, and plant a local species, then its OKOct 18 00:33
oiaohmBy law here the loggers are required to replant.Oct 18 00:33
oiaohmAnd get sucuessful regrowth.Oct 18 00:33
Chips_B_Malroythey are not allowed to clear cutOct 18 00:33
fewaand local species?Oct 18 00:33
oiaohmAnd replaint must be same species that were there.Oct 18 00:33
fewanot something horrible like birch?Oct 18 00:33
mutxwe have national parks, old growth forests, and endangered animal protection laws.Oct 18 00:34
fewaIve seen them in HawaiiOct 18 00:34
oiaohmSome areas are not logged because the local species cannot be grown.Oct 18 00:34
fewagreat native jungle next to row-planted birchOct 18 00:34
fewahorribleOct 18 00:34
oiaohmOthers are not logged due to a fungus.Oct 18 00:34
oiaohmIe a tree killer.Oct 18 00:34
oiaohmNot something you want to spreed.Oct 18 00:34
Chips_B_Malroycutting lives trees is dangerous.  Oct 18 00:35
fewaChips_B_Malroy, no shitOct 18 00:35
fewaesp when they are old growth, you should see the picturesOct 18 00:35
Chips_B_MalroyHad to cut some that were too close to my houseOct 18 00:36
mutxwe have some of the oldest species of trees on earth, and I think also the oldest tree as well.Oct 18 00:36
Chips_B_Malroyanother reason to cut only dead trees already fallen for firewoodOct 18 00:36
fewanot much left http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Oldgrowth3.jpgOct 18 00:37
phIRCeTitle: File:Oldgrowth3.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 25.27 KBOct 18 00:37
fewaand you can see how recently it was cutOct 18 00:37
Chips_B_Malroyoldest tree is, trying to think, thislecone pine, not sure i have that rightOct 18 00:37
fewawood is _not_ renewableOct 18 00:37
oiaohmThat is the problem  fraser 20 year old tree over 2 metres across.  it was stupid 1 photo of goverment officals standing under a so called old growth tree was standing in the middle of a area that had been cleared completely 20 years before.Oct 18 00:37
Chips_B_Malroyit grew in colorado I knowOct 18 00:38
oiaohmCutting down a tree 2 meters accross is scary if it does not go where planed.Oct 18 00:38
fewais that the biggest youve seen?Oct 18 00:38
oiaohmNo there is bigger over there in the true old growth.Oct 18 00:39
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mutxyou refering to the one that moron could not get his coreing tool into it, so he cut it down to count the ring only to realize he had just cut down (and killed) the "old methusula" pine you are talking about.Oct 18 00:39
DaemonFClmfaoOct 18 00:39
Chips_B_Malroytrees are renewable, but only if done right, and in the right places.  Areas that are under enviroment pressures, like sub saharia, NOOct 18 00:39
fewaChips_B_Malroy, yes, but if you look at that picture you realize that they have been used far faster than they have grownOct 18 00:40
fewaand we have far more people on the planet nowOct 18 00:40
Chips_B_MalroyBut wood is not the anwser to the fuel problem, it could only help just a very small amount with a better plan from our govOct 18 00:40
fewabelieving that we can use wood willy nilly, for example for such stupid things such as paper fiber, is sillyOct 18 00:40
fewaand it is not for fuel, at allOct 18 00:41
oiaohmAnd the bad part most of the areas where trees are renewalbe also look so nice that dumb greenes get up in arms and stop logging there.Oct 18 00:41
fewaoiaohm, meh, most of those lands would be good agricultural landOct 18 00:41
oiaohmSo forcing loggers on to worse land.Oct 18 00:41
Chips_B_MalroyI am for the use of firewood in the cutting of dead treesOct 18 00:41
oiaohmNot fraser is a sand island Oct 18 00:41
fewaahhOct 18 00:41
oiaohmagricultural would destory it.Oct 18 00:42
fewaChips_B_Malroy, agreed, its just not what usually happensOct 18 00:42
fewawell thenOct 18 00:42
fewaokOct 18 00:42
mutxand a national parkOct 18 00:42
fewasome time people will have to rebuild in the mountainsOct 18 00:42
fewainstead of putting the cities on the best farm landOct 18 00:42
mutxand the last colony of pure breed dingo'sOct 18 00:42
fewaLondon, LA, etcOct 18 00:42
fewa_excellent_ farmlandOct 18 00:42
Chips_B_Malroythat is the problem of equating all logging with cutting of all trees, dead trees are a fire hazard, and we need people to cut and remove themOct 18 00:43
fewabut asphaulted overOct 18 00:43
oiaohmBest stuff for trees to grow fast in is sand.  With a nature pool of water under it with lots of bird droping or other sources to provide nutruants.Oct 18 00:43
fewaChips_B_Malroy, meh, dead trees not much of a fire hazar, brush is Oct 18 00:43
fewabut much better to use than let rotOct 18 00:43
oiaohmIe the bears up alsaka might have made some areas equal to fraser.Oct 18 00:43
MinceR"I guess it's never too early to introduce a major fire hazard into your home."Oct 18 00:44
fewaoiaohm, not alaskaOct 18 00:44
fewaoiaohm, you dont realize how north latitudeOct 18 00:44
mutxwere not allowed to take dead wood out without a permit, and it's because of habitat destruction for wildlife.Oct 18 00:44
fewaaustralia is much closer to equatorOct 18 00:44
oiaohmThe boost from the right conductions still could make alaska double poor land more south in the USA if the conditions are right.Oct 18 00:45
mutxwe also have temperate forests in the southOct 18 00:45
schestowitzfewa: That's a good one: 'Alan Grayson: "If the President has a BLT tomorrow, the Republicans will try to ban bacon."'Oct 18 00:45
mutxin TasmaniaOct 18 00:45
oiaohmTasmania has a few fast growth areas.Oct 18 00:45
Chips_B_MalroyLook at what happened to Iceland, and the cutting of live trees thereOct 18 00:45
oiaohmYes they are faster growning the same of the areas up at fasers area that is logged.Oct 18 00:45
fewaHe also said: "If Obama brings about world peace, the Republicans will attack him for hurting the defense industry"Oct 18 00:46
oiaohmIe the poor areas.Oct 18 00:46
schestowitzfewa: reminds me of s/t I watched this afternoonOct 18 00:46
fewaand the next day he got the nobel puke prizeOct 18 00:46
oiaohmThis is the problem fewa there are areas all over the place that are fast growing but we don't have where they are.Oct 18 00:46
schestowitzChalmers on the Industrial ComplexOct 18 00:46
schestowitzIt's a big industryOct 18 00:46
mutxyes, what is called "scrub" it's thousands of acres of just bush land and small trees.Oct 18 00:46
schestowitz$500,000 MILLION/YEAROct 18 00:46
fewaschestowitz, 57% of the federal budgetOct 18 00:47
fewaits a jokeOct 18 00:47
schestowitzNoOct 18 00:47
schestowitzImperial overstretchOct 18 00:47
fewaif you want to fix the economy get rid of thatOct 18 00:47
schestowitzAnd debt growsOct 18 00:47
schestowitzSome say to 55 trillion nowOct 18 00:47
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fewahttp://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htmOct 18 00:47
phIRCeTitle: The Federal Pie Chart .::. Size~: 23.25 KBOct 18 00:47
fewa2009Oct 18 00:47
schestowitzGreece was once the great empireOct 18 00:47
schestowitzOr centre of intellectOct 18 00:47
oiaohmhttp://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/10/mses-first-week-535752-users-four-million-detections.ars  How foolish are people.Oct 18 00:47
schestowitzNow it's one of the most hostile (to the US) societyOct 18 00:47
phIRCeTitle: One week of MSE: 1.5 million downloads, 4 million detections - Ars Technica .::. Size~: 43.94 KBOct 18 00:47
schestowitzMaybe Korea beats themOct 18 00:48
oiaohmThat is not really working.Oct 18 00:48
fewaFor the cost of the Iraq war, you could give everyone healthcare, everyone education, everyone a apartmentOct 18 00:48
oiaohmAny new detection tool gets a grace period of about 4 weeks before attackers catch up.Oct 18 00:48
schestowitzfewa: it's not that simpleOct 18 00:48
fewayou could build windmills and renewable energy and completely remove the use of foreign oilOct 18 00:48
schestowitzWhere would oil come from?Oct 18 00:48
schestowitzOh, thatOct 18 00:49
fewawhile employeeing all of the detroit auto workersOct 18 00:49
schestowitzYes, leaving fossil fuel behindOct 18 00:49
oiaohmschestowitz: exactly what do you need oil for.Oct 18 00:49
schestowitzBut the oil lobby would  not like thatOct 18 00:49
Chips_B_MalroySadly, there is some need for a military.  Oct 18 00:49
oiaohmThe answer is nothing.   There is nothing that oil produces that cannot be produced another way.Oct 18 00:49
oiaohmCatch is oil is the lazy and cheep answer.Oct 18 00:50
fewahttp://www.democracynow.org/2009/9/8/white_house_environmental_adviser_van_jonesOct 18 00:50
phIRCeTitle: White House Environmental Adviser Van Jones Resigns Citing "Vicious Smear Campaign Against Me" .::. Size~: 57.58 KBOct 18 00:50
oiaohmOk not looking that cheep when you have to fight a war for itOct 18 00:50
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Chips_B_Malroyoil is controlled, by cartels and oil corporations.  Lot of money changing hands.Oct 18 00:50
fewa"We’re trying to make the case in this book that that era is over. We now have to move in a very different direction. And key to that will be basing the US economy not on credit cards, but based on clean energy and the clean energy revolution that would put literally millions of people to work, putting up solar panels all across the United States, weatherizing buildings so they don’t leak so much energy and put up so much carbon, building wind fOct 18 00:50
fewaarms and wave farms, manufacturing wind turbines. We argue you could put Detroit back to work not making SUVs to destroy the world, but making wind turbines, 8,000 finely machine parts in each one, twenty tons of steel in each wind tower, making wind turbines to help save the world.Oct 18 00:50
fewaSo we think that you can fight pollution and poverty at the same time. We think that you can actually power our way through this recession by putting people to work, but we’re going to have to start building things here and re-powering, retrofitting, retooling America, and that that’s the way forward both for the economy, for the earth and for everyday people."Oct 18 00:50
fewa"And when you look at, you know, what should you spend that money on, last time we had a stimulus, we gave out a bunch of checks to people who ran out to Wal-Mart and bought flat-screen TVs, so we stimulated the economy—it was just the Chinese economy, not this one. The smart way to do a stimulus is to invest in infrastructure. And the smart infrastructure that we need right now is infrastructure that gets the price of energy down, that gets us moOct 18 00:50
feware energy independent. All roads point toward a major investment in clean energy, probably funded in part by deficit spending on the part of the government."Oct 18 00:50
oiaohmSolar panels don't make much sence.Oct 18 00:51
Chips_B_Malroywind farms doOct 18 00:51
mutxwhy not ?Oct 18 00:51
fewa"manufacturing wind turbines. We argue you could put Detroit back to work not making SUVs to destroy the world, but making wind turbines, 8,000 finely machine parts in each one, twenty tons of steel in each wind tower, making wind turbines to help save the world."Oct 18 00:51
oiaohmOver there operational live more often than not you don't recover the carbon used of producing them mutxOct 18 00:52
fewabuilding wind farms and wave farms,Oct 18 00:52
Chips_B_Malroybut the problem here with wind farms is storing power for when there is no windOct 18 00:52
fewaalso solar panel require lots of metalsOct 18 00:52
oiaohmNow if you are using reflectors to push more light into solar panels you may recover it.Oct 18 00:52
Chips_B_Malroythe only proven way is to use hydroelectric means to store powerOct 18 00:52
fewaChips_B_Malroy, you can build a supercouducting electric gribOct 18 00:52
mutxthats not true, ive done the full energy cost of it, and solar panels are about as efficient as a petrol engine.Oct 18 00:52
schestowitzfewa: there's some of that in Michael JacksonOct 18 00:52
fewa*grid, highly efficientOct 18 00:53
fewaalready possibleOct 18 00:53
mutxplus the thermal solar systems, are very scalable and are producing alot of energy.Oct 18 00:53
oiaohmmutx: petrol engine is not that great.Oct 18 00:53
fewaeternal combustion engineOct 18 00:53
mutxthats right, about 25% max.Oct 18 00:53
fewamost outdated piece of shit in existanceOct 18 00:53
oiaohmmutx: did you include replacements due to age.Oct 18 00:54
oiaohmSolar cells slowly degrade.Oct 18 00:54
Chips_B_Malroybuild two reservoirs, pump water to the higher one when you have plenty of power, when no wind, water runs generators from higher reseviorOct 18 00:54
mutxand an electric motor is approching 100%, in the high 99'sOct 18 00:54
fewaChips_B_Malroy, you dont have to build anything, you just use hydro plantsOct 18 00:54
Chips_B_Malroythat is what they areOct 18 00:54
fewathe Grand Couleee does this for the whole Pacific northwestOct 18 00:54
fewait has three sectors, and one use to go on and off in unison with the alluminum plantOct 18 00:55
oiaohmThere are solar plants here that do recover mutxOct 18 00:55
oiaohmusing normal panels.Oct 18 00:55
schestowitzI didn't know Torvalds wrote a bookOct 18 00:55
oiaohmBut they use reflextors on to panellsOct 18 00:56
fewawe need electric vehiclesOct 18 00:56
fewaGM made them Oct 18 00:56
fewaand they kicked assOct 18 00:56
fewathen they took them from people to prevent a revolution from happeningOct 18 00:56
Chips_B_Malroyelectric trolleys, bring back the trolleys,  lolOct 18 00:56
oiaohmSo ammount of light going on to the solar panel is about 20 times the size of the panel.Oct 18 00:56
fewaChips_B_Malroy, this is one of the sins of patentsOct 18 00:56
mutxyes, standard silicon solar panels, have a greater than 25 year operational life and they easily give back far more energy than it takes to make them.Oct 18 00:56
oiaohmAt that point solar panels are green.Oct 18 00:56
fewapatents are a huge slower of innovation is this sort of thingOct 18 00:56
fewathey are used to prevent innovationOct 18 00:57
fewaprevent changeOct 18 00:57
oiaohmOperational live on advaverage is less than 25 years. mutxOct 18 00:57
fewapreserve outdated business modelsOct 18 00:57
oiaohmIts not just the silcon that failes mutxOct 18 00:57
fewaChips_B_Malroy, also, it was the car and oil companies that conspired to destroy the trolliesOct 18 00:58
mutxI know i worked in solar panels R&D company for years, Oct 18 00:58
fewathey were convicted and given a slap on the wristOct 18 00:58
oiaohmIts 25 years per single cell.  With a veration from 15 to about 50.   1 failure can bring complete panels down.Oct 18 00:58
mutxdie based, "gretzel cell" type solar collectors.Oct 18 00:58
mutxBut there is few failure mechanisms in a silicon solar cell, they drop in some output after a period of years, thats how they are usually rated.Oct 18 00:59
fewaStandard OilOct 18 00:59
Chips_B_Malroyfewa> the new high speed rail systems some cities put in like LA are really trollies nowOct 18 00:59
trmancohttp://imgur.voxcdn.com/TWtYE.jpgOct 18 00:59
phIRCeTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KBOct 18 00:59
fewaPortlandOct 18 00:59
fewathey have a good light railOct 18 00:59
oiaohmmutx: with reflex gain cell cost of production will be recovered in 5 years.Oct 18 01:00
fewaSeattle passed a rail expansion despite large conservative oppositionOct 18 01:00
fewaeven got it on the ballotOct 18 01:00
oiaohmSo you are for sure in the clear.Oct 18 01:00
oiaohmThen maybe another few years for transport mutxOct 18 01:00
Chips_B_Malroywhat I see here is unbeivable,  mopeds less than 50cc do not need a regristration or insurance to operate.  And I see on now on every block.Oct 18 01:01
oiaohmNice bit the reflectors only have to be built once.Oct 18 01:02
fewahave you guys seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCgM9L4dVSw ?Oct 18 01:02
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - Weiner Challenges CNBC to Read the Health Bill Part 1 .::. Size~: 164.54 KBOct 18 01:02
fewashows what a joke the media isOct 18 01:02
mutxone failure will bring down a single seriues chain, but it will not bring the system down, and it's usually only the electrical connection bonding, so you can fix it in 2 minutes with a soldering iron.Oct 18 01:02
Chips_B_Malroywas told they get 80mpgOct 18 01:02
fewaChips_B_Malroy, electric is even more efficientOct 18 01:02
fewabut yeah mopeds are niceOct 18 01:02
oiaohmmutx: how often are they repaired.  Simple fact most cases they are not.Oct 18 01:03
fewapeople really need smaller vehiclesOct 18 01:03
fewathe 1-person driving SUV thing in the US is a jokeOct 18 01:03
Chips_B_Malroyyes, no more hummersOct 18 01:03
mutxmost cases they are, do you know the purchase cost of these items.Oct 18 01:03
fewaand its _really_ commonOct 18 01:03
mutxso if your $10000, solar array gets an open circuit you would not bother to fix it ?Oct 18 01:03
fewaGM killed the electric car, and then bought HummerOct 18 01:03
oiaohmYes I do mutx.  Lot I know just drop complete panels.Oct 18 01:04
oiaohmVery wasteful.Oct 18 01:04
oiaohmMostly because they are upgrading there panels.Oct 18 01:04
mutxonly for the series wired chain, and good solar panels have diodes installed to bypass the currunt for the open cell.Oct 18 01:05
oiaohmdiodes also fail with are.Oct 18 01:05
oiaohmare/ageOct 18 01:05
oiaohmThe panel design is part of the problem mutxOct 18 01:06
mutxeverything fails sometimes, whats your point ? Oct 18 01:06
oiaohmIf cells were simple to replace and upgrade in panels people would not take the lazy path and drop the full panel.Oct 18 01:06
mutxwell I for one would not like to hold my breath waiting for a solar system to fail, ive put in alot of systems, and you dont see solar panels fail.Oct 18 01:06
oiaohmSo under mining to cost.Oct 18 01:07
oiaohmI have had the luck of seeing telstras solar panel usage.  mutxOct 18 01:08
fewaGM seeded their own demiseOct 18 01:08
oiaohmThe ammout of panels they junk that are fixable is insane.Oct 18 01:08
fewashort-term profits at the expense of all stakeholders interestsOct 18 01:08
fewathe interest of the employeesOct 18 01:08
fewathe interest of the cunsumersOct 18 01:08
schestowitzPaul Allen had investments in Transmeta. Weird.Oct 18 01:08
fewathe interest of the american taxpayerOct 18 01:08
fewaand the interest of every person that will be effected by global climate changeOct 18 01:09
mutxoiaohm, not to mention end up on the homes of half the telstra techs houses !Oct 18 01:09
oiaohmI mean junk mutxOct 18 01:09
mutxand telstra use a massive amount of solar panels, in very harsh condition, Oct 18 01:09
oiaohmShreded for recyling.Oct 18 01:09
fewaPaul Allen also create the brain databaseOct 18 01:09
fewaamazing researchOct 18 01:09
fewabut he is disliked in seattleOct 18 01:10
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oiaohmNot the ones the workers take home mutxOct 18 01:10
fewacause he forced the city to pay for a mega-stadiumOct 18 01:10
oiaohmLot have been replaced for visual reasons as well mutx.Oct 18 01:11
mutxtree falls, vandals, fires, animals there are all sorts of things that can take out a solar panel.Oct 18 01:11
mutxlighting.Oct 18 01:11
oiaohmie newer smaller panel does not stand out as much.Oct 18 01:11
oiaohmNothing wrong with the old panel.Oct 18 01:11
oiaohmThere are intacted panels mutx.  Either single cell failure somewhere or just old and large so being destoryed.Oct 18 01:12
oiaohmDamaged ones are another cat.Oct 18 01:12
oiaohmAgain could be recycled far better than schreding.Oct 18 01:13
mutxwell if they didnt work, or do the job as required, telstra would not use them, and they would find some other way, but as they do use them, and replace them with the same thing, it must be working for them.Oct 18 01:14
oiaohmSaves power line charges mutxOct 18 01:15
oiaohmthey are cost effective and more dependable than generators in that sence.Oct 18 01:15
mutxsaves money, there you go, Oct 18 01:15
oiaohmBut is not really saving envorment.Oct 18 01:15
schestowitzfewa: LOL he didn't read the billOct 18 01:15
schestowitz[01:10] <fewa> but he is disliked in seattleOct 18 01:16
schestowitzMaybe that's why he lives in a boatOct 18 01:16
fewanot just any boatOct 18 01:16
schestowitzI know.Oct 18 01:16
fewahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus_%28yacht%29Oct 18 01:16
phIRCeTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KBOct 18 01:16
fewaa friggen 414' megayaughtOct 18 01:16
fewawtfOct 18 01:17
Chips_B_Malroydidn't Gates and Ballmer have a fallen out with Allen at one time?Oct 18 01:17
fewaits a 302 for phIRCe Oct 18 01:17
fewajust needs to fallow redirectOct 18 01:17
fewa(which incidentally is outdated and only for netscape which doesn't handle UTF-8 in urls)Oct 18 01:17
fewaChips_B_Malroy, Allen left Microsoft really earlyOct 18 01:18
oiaohmmutx basically a bit of work making panels simpler and fast to repair would reduce ones from big users like telstra being scraped as much.   And creating  market that will pay for the older large ones.Oct 18 01:18
fewahe has never been a Microsoft personOct 18 01:18
fewaI mean, after he got richOct 18 01:18
fewabut before windows 95, etcOct 18 01:19
oiaohmmutx: but until then solar panels are not really as good as there numbers first appear.Oct 18 01:19
fewaoh wait, 2000Oct 18 01:19
fewamost profit was from 95 and 98Oct 18 01:19
fewathe company had a official profit margin of >90%Oct 18 01:19
oiaohm95 was insane.Oct 18 01:19
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Chips_B_Malroyit probably still would be a 90% or higher profit margin if they only produced Windows and OfficeOct 18 01:21
fewaChips_B_Malroy, that doesn't make senseOct 18 01:21
fewait would be a smaller companyOct 18 01:21
Chips_B_Malroyxbox, zune, bing, datacenters, winmo, all are losersOct 18 01:21
fewaand also things dont work that wayOct 18 01:21
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: yes, I can find it:Oct 18 01:22
mutxprofit margins and company size are not relatedOct 18 01:22
schestowitz[01:17] <Chips_B_Malroy> didn't Gates and Ballmer have a fallen out with Allen at one time?Oct 18 01:22
mutxI think chips is sayingOct 18 01:22
fewaChips_B_Malroy, but by employeeing mind share they preserve their other productsOct 18 01:22
fewaits about holding onto control as long as possibleOct 18 01:22
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Chips_B_MalroyI believe they tried to screw over Paul Allen with his stock or somethingOct 18 01:22
fewaif they only did W+O they would be long goneOct 18 01:22
fewathats why BillG is now bribing patents into the 3rd worldOct 18 01:23
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: Oct 18 01:23
schestowitzPrisoner of Redmond: Yet Another Way Paul Allen Isn t Like You or MeOct 18 01:23
schestowitz,----[ Quote ]Oct 18 01:23
Chips_B_Malroyyes, but point is back in windows 95 day that was basically where they wereOct 18 01:23
schestowitz| During one of those last long nights working to deliver DOS 2.0 in earlyOct 18 01:23
schestowitz| 1983, I am told that Paul Allen heard Gates and Ballmer discussing his healthOct 18 01:23
schestowitz| and talking about how to get his Microsoft shares back if Allen were to die.  Oct 18 01:23
schestowitz`----Oct 18 01:23
fewasocial change is more of a threat than any economicsOct 18 01:23
schestowitzhttp://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2006/pulpit_20060330_000890.html Oct 18 01:23
phIRCeTitle: I, Cringely . The Pulpit . Prisoner of Redmond | PBS .::. Size~: 29.96 KBOct 18 01:23
fewamind share is most important thingOct 18 01:23
fewaPROct 18 01:23
fewapropagandaOct 18 01:23
Chips_B_Malroyah, how to screw over your business partner and lifelong friendOct 18 01:24
schestowitzPR is the new name for propagandaOct 18 01:24
Chips_B_MalroyAllenOct 18 01:24
schestowitzThey renamed it, merelyOct 18 01:24
schestowitzIn a closed meeting with BernaysOct 18 01:24
fewaeuphamismOct 18 01:24
fewalike "jobs" for profitsOct 18 01:24
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: in this interview with Charles Rose a moment ago, a good quote came upOct 18 01:24
fewaand "security" for obedienceOct 18 01:24
schestowitzHe said that Gates was like RockerfellerOct 18 01:25
schestowitzAnd Linus like EdisonOct 18 01:25
schestowitzHow trueOct 18 01:25
fewaand "socialist" for helps peopleOct 18 01:25
schestowitzGates is a business/law person robbingOct 18 01:25
fewainstead of corporationsOct 18 01:25
schestowitzWhereas Allen or Linus are people who engineer stuffOct 18 01:25
schestowitzSame with WozOct 18 01:25
schestowitzJobs does the demosOct 18 01:25
fewaschestowitz, yep, learned it from his dadOct 18 01:25
schestowitzNot only thatOct 18 01:25
fewaJobs was always, and still is, a salesmanOct 18 01:25
schestowitzHis dad still guides himOct 18 01:25
schestowitzPeople don't realise thisOct 18 01:26
fewaYep, yep, yepOct 18 01:26
schestowitzGates Sr. has his buddies like Abramoff serve MicrosoftOct 18 01:26
schestowitzAnd people who work for Gates Sr. occupy the BSAOct 18 01:26
schestowitzAmong other thingsOct 18 01:26
schestowitzGates Sr. is also behind the scheme called Gates FoundationOct 18 01:26
schestowitzThe "Gates" there might as well refer to Sr.Oct 18 01:26
schestowitzNot Melinda French and PearlyGOct 18 01:26
schestowitz[01:25] <fewa> Jobs was always, and still is, a salesmanOct 18 01:27
fewaBSA, euphamism for "Businesses against Software Advance"Oct 18 01:27
schestowitzThere's another Steve like thatOct 18 01:27
schestowitzfewa: /s/businesses/bullies/Oct 18 01:27
fewabut Jobs does have visionOct 18 01:27
fewaunlike BillGOct 18 01:28
schestowitzWell, he wears glassesOct 18 01:28
schestowitzBTW, good video there with weiner and folksOct 18 01:28
schestowitzThey owned CNBCOct 18 01:28
fewayepOct 18 01:29
fewabut its disgracefulOct 18 01:29
fewathe way CNBC treats elected representativesOct 18 01:29
fewathey still think they can say what the public has to listen toOct 18 01:29
schestowitzGood interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcbbOcquHZ4&NR=1Oct 18 01:29
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - Linus Torvalds - Charlie Rose Interview - P2/2 .::. Size~: 109.8 KBOct 18 01:29
schestowitzOld one thoughOct 18 01:29
fewayou can see how Charlie tries to stir controversyOct 18 01:30
schestowitzCNBC is also GE, no?Oct 18 01:30
schestowitzOr just Microsoft[NBC]Oct 18 01:30
fewaAOLTimeGEWarnerMicrosoftOct 18 01:30
fewaMegaCorpOct 18 01:30
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Chips_B_MalroyRoy, reading your link on Paul Allen, it sounds like the threesome of Gates, Ballmer, and Allen, never kissed and made up.Oct 18 01:32
fewawhen you are that rich you can afford to hold grudgesOct 18 01:32
fewahell, Bush invaded a country over a grudgeOct 18 01:32
fewaand for no reason at allOct 18 01:32
Chips_B_Malroyhe convinced many people that there were WMD's and that Al Queda was thereOct 18 01:33
fewaall liesOct 18 01:33
fewaand when they were uncovered the story switchedOct 18 01:33
fewaalso, Clinton started the lies about Iraq and WMDsOct 18 01:34
Chips_B_Malroylies or untruths?  The CIA partly backed him upOct 18 01:34
mutxand yet you elected him for 2 terms !Oct 18 01:34
Chips_B_MalroyyepOct 18 01:34
fewaClinton imposed the sanctions that killed millions and kept Saddam in powerOct 18 01:34
fewamutx, 20% turnoutOct 18 01:34
fewaonly 20% of the public even votedOct 18 01:34
Chips_B_Malroyhe did not win by muchOct 18 01:35
mutxwell, it's not my fault if your people are that apothetic :)Oct 18 01:35
fewawhile there is alot of focus on BUsh's approval rating, congress's in even lowerOct 18 01:35
fewaChips_B_Malroy, he didn't win@Oct 18 01:35
fewathe supreme court announced it 5-4Oct 18 01:35
Chips_B_Malroythats debatableOct 18 01:35
mutxhe served, he wonOct 18 01:35
fewawe know Gore would have wonOct 18 01:35
fewaand Gore got more votesOct 18 01:35
fewamutx, he ruledOct 18 01:36
fewa"won" implies victoryOct 18 01:36
mutxnot wellOct 18 01:36
Chips_B_Malroywinning the popular vote yes, but that is not the system here by lawOct 18 01:36
fewaChips_B_Malroy, it was 300 votes when the supreme court stopped the recountOct 18 01:36
Chips_B_Malroywe have the outdated electorial collegeOct 18 01:36
mutxvictory was being Pres, so yes he won.Oct 18 01:36
fewaand Gore would have won FlordiaOct 18 01:36
fewaif the supreme court did not step inOct 18 01:37
fewavoting along strict party linesOct 18 01:37
Chips_B_Malroythis was the 2nd recount?Oct 18 01:37
mutxwoulda, coulda, shoulda, didntOct 18 01:37
fewamutx, the election runner was Bush's brotherOct 18 01:37
Chips_B_Malroyand they were only recounting counties with high democratic majorititesOct 18 01:37
fewaChips_B_Malroy, no, they recounted it allOct 18 01:38
Chips_B_MalroynoOct 18 01:38
fewahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._GoreOct 18 01:38
phIRCeTitle: Bush v. Gore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 130.37 KBOct 18 01:38
Chips_B_Malroybut it is a side issue, Bush was bad period as a presidentOct 18 01:39
fewaalso, DieBold machines do not count votesOct 18 01:39
fewaand the CEO annouced support for BushOct 18 01:39
fewaAlan Dershowitz: [T]he decision in the Florida election case may be ranked as the single most corrupt decision in Supreme Court history, because it is the only one that I know of where the majority justices decided as they did because of the personal identity and political affiliation of the litigants. This was cheating, and a violation of the judicial oath.Oct 18 01:41
Chips_B_MalroyThere was definately cheating, on both sidesOct 18 01:42
mutxdoes not change a thing, Bush got in, and got in again, thats history. Oct 18 01:43
Chips_B_Malroyyes mutx, you are rightOct 18 01:43
fewathere si a striking difference between public opinion and public policy, on a host of major issuesOct 18 01:44
fewathe democratic deficiet in the US is very strikingOct 18 01:44
Chips_B_MalroyFlorida will always be a problem state to get real voter resultsOct 18 01:44
fewaYOu have to outlaw computerized votingOct 18 01:44
fewawith no paper trailOct 18 01:45
fewaand no source codeOct 18 01:45
fewaits not voting, its gamblingOct 18 01:45
Chips_B_Malroythere are always ways to cheatOct 18 01:45
fewabut not so easilyOct 18 01:45
fewaand untracablyOct 18 01:45
Chips_B_Malroywell, agreed paper does leave a trail, or a hanging chadOct 18 01:46
mutxfor such a patriotic country why do you think most of the population does not even care enough to vote?Oct 18 01:46
mutxyou HAVE to vote here, or your fined.Oct 18 01:46
fewamutx, thats the mediaOct 18 01:46
fewa"patriotic country"Oct 18 01:46
fewalocal governments are often very good, very democraticOct 18 01:47
Chips_B_MalroyMutx> because you elect one of two choices that are bought and paid for by the big corporationsOct 18 01:47
fewaits the elite class, and the propaganda industry that is the problemOct 18 01:47
fewamakes the federal government a jokeOct 18 01:48
Chips_B_MalroyBama=Hollywood media companies (think RIAA appointees and M$ appointees)Oct 18 01:48
fewaespecially now that it decided that the constitution is as worthy as toilet paperOct 18 01:48
mutxa CEO only has one vote just like you do.Oct 18 01:48
fewadeciding that that the ban on "crewl and unusual punishment" is optionalOct 18 01:48
Chips_B_MalroyBush= big oil, hollywood media companies, phama, and M$Oct 18 01:49
fewaHope and ChangeOct 18 01:49
fewarepeat an infinitum Oct 18 01:49
Chips_B_Malroyhard to be intrusedOct 18 01:49
fewamuch more than the copyright racketeersOct 18 01:50
fewaescalation of AfghanistanOct 18 01:50
fewatotal break of promises on IraqOct 18 01:50
fewapushing _against_ the public option, his own compramizeOct 18 01:50
fewaback room deal with PhRMAOct 18 01:51
fewabreak on his promise "to renegotiate" NAFTAOct 18 01:51
Chips_B_Malroyhow about both Bush and Bama and the insurance and banking companiesOct 18 01:51
fewaand yesOct 18 01:52
Chips_B_Malroytruth is, very little difference in both partiesOct 18 01:52
fewagiving the banks, that created the problem, an enormus sumOct 18 01:52
fewaa sum so large that the fed could have just paid off everyone's morgageOct 18 01:52
fewabasically, a continuation of Clinton's sell out to the banksOct 18 01:53
fewaeven in the wake of utter disasterOct 18 01:53
Chips_B_MalroyPaul was right, let Banks go under, they will go through bankrupcy, and then be bought out.  Deposits are insured so little guy is protectedOct 18 01:53
fewaa manufactured disasterOct 18 01:53
fewaChips_B_Malroy, that insurance is massive corporate welfareOct 18 01:53
*schestowitz watches this VERY interesting talk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHzG3nTA27MOct 18 01:53
Chips_B_Malroythe system would have cleaned up itselfOct 18 01:53
fewawhen FDR enacted it that insurance was paid by banksOct 18 01:54
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - Conversations with History: Linus Pauling .::. Size~: 165.89 KBOct 18 01:54
Chips_B_MalroyFewa>yesOct 18 01:54
fewabut in the last 20 years they havn't paid a cent into itOct 18 01:54
schestowitz[01:32] <Chips_B_Malroy> Roy, reading your link on Paul Allen, it sounds like the threesome of Gates, Ballmer, and Allen, never kissed and made up.Oct 18 01:54
schestowitzTrue.Oct 18 01:54
schestowitzSame with Ellison and PearlyOct 18 01:54
fewaprivate profites, publisized risksOct 18 01:54
fewa"patriotic citizens" is just code word for nationalist tyranny and interventionismOct 18 01:55
DaemonFChttp://www.naturalnews.com/008952.htmlOct 18 01:56
phIRCeTitle: Aspartame promotes grand mal seizures, say health experts .::. Size~: 50.64 KBOct 18 01:56
Chips_B_Malroyalways thought Gates at least had the personal dignity of taking care of his friends, now I know that his version of taking care of his friends is very different indeedOct 18 01:56
fewaaspartame is horribleOct 18 01:56
DaemonFCfewa, I stopped using itOct 18 01:57
DaemonFCI'm mainly drinking sacchrine or sucralose nowOct 18 01:57
fewacreates formaldehyde when it breaks downOct 18 01:57
fewasucralose isn't much betterOct 18 01:58
DaemonFCfountain versions of diet drinks use saccharine because aspartame is not heat stable Oct 18 01:58
fewahttp://abstrusegoose.com/46Oct 18 01:58
mutxgreat so it gives you cancer tooOct 18 01:58
phIRCeTitle: Abstruse Goose » Whats in a Name? .::. Size~: 14.08 KBOct 18 01:58
fewaWhy not just use sugar?Oct 18 01:58
fewaand real sugar, not that shit HFCSOct 18 01:58
fewawhich is destroying the environmentOct 18 01:59
fewaand is horrible for your healthOct 18 01:59
DaemonFCcause sugar would put at least 20 pounds on meOct 18 01:59
fewaand actually costs more to produceOct 18 01:59
DaemonFCand promotes tooth decay and diabetesOct 18 01:59
fewaits only produced because corn subsidies are so highOct 18 01:59
fewaor just no sugar?Oct 18 01:59
fewawhy do you need sweetOct 18 01:59
fewaI drink waterOct 18 01:59
DaemonFCyou can get Coke made with cane sugarOct 18 02:00
fewawhat we are suppose to drinkOct 18 02:00
DaemonFCif you go to those mexican food storesOct 18 02:00
fewathe CO2 alone in coke rots your teechOct 18 02:00
fewacarbonic acidOct 18 02:00
DaemonFCthe sugar is far worseOct 18 02:00
fewasucks the calcium out of your teeth and makes chalkOct 18 02:00
DaemonFCbacteria can feed off the sugar residue on your teeth for hoursOct 18 02:00
fewaI just drink waterOct 18 02:00
fewaI dont like fake stuffOct 18 02:00
amarsh04the phosphoric acid in coca cola isn't good for your teeth eitherOct 18 02:01
DaemonFCI'm taking a liking to Diet RiteOct 18 02:01
fewaugggghhhhhhOct 18 02:01
fewaits just caffeineOct 18 02:01
fewaand unregulated waterOct 18 02:01
fewaand alluminumOct 18 02:01
DaemonFCDiet Rite doesn't have any caffeine or sodiumOct 18 02:01
DaemonFCor aspartameOct 18 02:01
fewaunregulated waterOct 18 02:02
fewawater from your tap is regulated to make sure it doesn't kill youOct 18 02:02
*Balrog_ has quit ()Oct 18 02:02
DaemonFCaspartame is seriously bad stuff, especially if you drink a lot of diet soda that contains itOct 18 02:02
fewabottled water has no such rulesOct 18 02:02
DaemonFCthe more you drink of it the worse you'll feelOct 18 02:02
DaemonFCfewa, Yes it doesOct 18 02:02
fewaNopeOct 18 02:02
fewaits not testedOct 18 02:02
DaemonFCbottled water is regulated by the FDA which has the same standards as the EPA does for tap waterOct 18 02:02
fewathey dont test itOct 18 02:02
DaemonFC:)Oct 18 02:03
mutxevery product sold as a food stuff, is tested and regulated.Oct 18 02:03
fewaand it doesn't fall under the clean water actOct 18 02:03
DaemonFCit's at least no worse for you than tap waterOct 18 02:03
DaemonFCdoesn't mean you're smart to be buying bottles of waterOct 18 02:03
fewathe vast majority of bottled water _is_ tap waterOct 18 02:03
fewaIt is essentially a sham industryOct 18 02:04
DaemonFCof course it's a shamOct 18 02:04
DaemonFCCoke was fined by the UK when it came to light that Dasani was nothing more than tap waterOct 18 02:04
DaemonFCthey had advertised it as "spring water" or somethingOct 18 02:05
fewalololOct 18 02:05
fewamost bottled water in the us is marketed liek thatOct 18 02:05
fewawhich is a lieOct 18 02:05
fewabut they are not prosecutedOct 18 02:05
fewaagain, consumer protection law need qui tam provisionsOct 18 02:05
DaemonFCJust get a reusable water bottle and fill it yourself if you want to take water with youOct 18 02:05
fewaotherwise they are politically prosecutedOct 18 02:05
fewaalso, PETE is not a good plasticOct 18 02:06
fewaHDPE is the right type of plastic, milk jugsOct 18 02:06
DaemonFCwell, people throw millions of plastic bottles into landfills every yearOct 18 02:06
DaemonFCthose never break downOct 18 02:06
fewaHDPE is the most recyclableOct 18 02:06
DaemonFCeven styrofoam eventually decomposes, plastic bottles never doOct 18 02:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A _lot_ of good news today. :-) For those who don't know, I post summaries daily, a la http://ur1.ca/du3rOct 18 02:07
phIRCeTitle: Links 17/10/2009: Parsix GNU/Linux 3.0 Released; Mandriva Summons Community | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 155.68 KBOct 18 02:08
fewaand doesn't have leech antimonyOct 18 02:08
fewalike PETEOct 18 02:08
fewaor synthetic, carcinogenic estrogen like BPAOct 18 02:09
fewawhich is incidentally is alot of "green" nalgene bottlesOct 18 02:09
fewait turns you into a womenOct 18 02:09
mutxwhat does it turn women into ?? :)Oct 18 02:10
fewaBisphenol AOct 18 02:10
fewahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_AOct 18 02:10
phIRCeTitle: Bisphenol A - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 281.11 KBOct 18 02:10
fewathere are better sources....Oct 18 02:10
fewaI have read editorials in chemistry journalsOct 18 02:10
fewa...Oct 18 02:10
fewawas originally used as an estrogen replacement until it was discovered it caused cancerOct 18 02:11
fewa..then the y figured they could make a plastic out of it. yipee!Oct 18 02:11
fewausing a hormone to make plastic!Oct 18 02:11
fewawhich are then used in baby bottles, water bottles, etcOct 18 02:12
DaemonFCI just turned on two of my heaters :POct 18 02:12
DaemonFCthat should get this place warmed up nicelyOct 18 02:12
fewahow powered?Oct 18 02:12
fewaNG, propane electic?Oct 18 02:12
DaemonFCI don't really need the heat on unless it drops below about 45 outside, cause the neighboring apartments bleed heat into mineOct 18 02:13
DaemonFCelectricOct 18 02:13
fewaouchOct 18 02:13
fewaesp in the midwest, where it all comes from coalOct 18 02:13
DaemonFCelectric is much cheaper to heat with than gasOct 18 02:13
DaemonFCmy cousin's house took $400 to heat last December with gasOct 18 02:13
fewawatOct 18 02:14
fewagas is cheaperOct 18 02:14
fewafar cheaperOct 18 02:14
fewamust have a leakOct 18 02:14
DaemonFCI went and installed electric radiator style heaters and the January electric bill only jumped about $150Oct 18 02:14
fewaor heating it to 80 or somethingOct 18 02:14
oiaohmDepends on where fewaOct 18 02:14
DaemonFCso it's more than twice the price to heat with natural gasOct 18 02:14
fewagas is 95% efficientOct 18 02:14
oiaohmSome places gas prices are high.Oct 18 02:14
DaemonFCgas is too pricey to even bother withOct 18 02:14
fewacoal-->electric-->heat is probably only like 50%Oct 18 02:14
oiaohmEnvorment yes fewaOct 18 02:15
DaemonFCif you have a gas furnace around here, you should rip it out and put in electric heatOct 18 02:15
fewaoiaohm, geeze why so pricy?Oct 18 02:15
fewato subsidize the coal industry?Oct 18 02:15
Chips_B_Malroyconsidering that most of the electric companies are now using fossel fuels to make electricOct 18 02:15
DaemonFCIndiana is far ahead of the other states with wind power btwOct 18 02:15
oiaohmTransport into some areas can be problem matic fewaOct 18 02:15
fewaBut midwest is based on coalOct 18 02:15
DaemonFCwe currently have about 5% of our electricity provided by itOct 18 02:15
Chips_B_MalroyHoover Dam here, but no break anymore on the billOct 18 02:15
fewaunlike pacific northwest, which is based on hydroOct 18 02:16
oiaohmie not enough users to make it cost effective fewaOct 18 02:16
fewaChips_B_Malroy, Hoover dam hardly generates any electricityOct 18 02:16
DaemonFCfewa, Indiana is mostly nuclear and coalOct 18 02:16
fewaahhOct 18 02:16
oiaohmSo the small numbers with it get billed high.Oct 18 02:16
fewanuclearOct 18 02:16
DaemonFCI like nuclear a little better than coal reallyOct 18 02:16
fewaout of the measly 10% in the USOct 18 02:16
fewayes, i do tooOct 18 02:16
oiaohmDaemonFC: really you should back it both ways have gas and electircOct 18 02:16
Chips_B_MalroyI am against Nuclear powerOct 18 02:16
oiaohmand use what ever one is cheaper over the years it changes.Oct 18 02:17
fewanuclear does get a massive corporate welfare howeverOct 18 02:17
fewaeven bigger than fossil fuel companiesOct 18 02:17
oiaohmNuclear produces a insane ammount of wasteOct 18 02:17
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy, I'd be much more afraid of what burning coal will do to the environmentOct 18 02:17
oiaohmThat we still don't know what to do with.Oct 18 02:17
DaemonFCnuclear is nasty but it doesn't lead to global warmingOct 18 02:17
mutxnuclear produces less waste than coal, Oct 18 02:17
fewahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price-Anderson_Nuclear_Industries_Indemnity_ActOct 18 02:17
phIRCeTitle: Price-Anderson Nuclear Industries Indemnity Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 52.04 KBOct 18 02:17
fewa_massive_ corporate welfareOct 18 02:17
mutxand it's all fully controlled, not just released.Oct 18 02:17
oiaohmCoal waste we have ways of dealing with mutxOct 18 02:17
mutxlike what ?Oct 18 02:18
mutxand where.Oct 18 02:18
Chips_B_Malroythe waste from Nuclear is a problem.  The main reason for Nuclear which the gov does not mention is a byproduct to produce the bombOct 18 02:18
DaemonFCfewa, The scrapping of those 500 US / 800 Russian warheads should provide a lot of nuclear powerOct 18 02:18
DaemonFCthey can be used as reactor fuel you knowOct 18 02:18
fewaDaemonFC, the ones that didn't go on the black marketOct 18 02:18
fewa...Oct 18 02:18
fewabut yesOct 18 02:18
Chips_B_Malroyalso think 3 mile island and chernobleOct 18 02:18
oiaohmEven the CO2 can be stored under ground. mutx and processed off over time.Oct 18 02:18
fewahowever wind is the bestOct 18 02:18
oiaohmHigh CO2 areas grow plants fast.Oct 18 02:18
fewa+geothermal, tidalOct 18 02:18
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy, The US is not the Soviet UnionOct 18 02:18
fewaoiaohm, noone knows where the CO2 goes after you pump it undergroundOct 18 02:19
DaemonFCwe've never had a meltdown and certainly not for such stupid reasonsOct 18 02:19
mutxthere is alot of talk about clean coal, but no examples of it actually working.Oct 18 02:19
DaemonFClet me say again, STUPID STUPID BRAINDEAD reasons :)Oct 18 02:19
oiaohmUnderground is storage if it done right fewaOct 18 02:19
fewafor all we know it just escapes back up all the holes that were drilled to get the oilOct 18 02:19
oiaohmNot if it is done right.Oct 18 02:19
fewathese chasms have thousands of holesOct 18 02:19
DaemonFCthey'll store the waste in modified abandoned salt mines in UtahOct 18 02:19
oiaohmThe CO2 is stored in water.Oct 18 02:19
DaemonFCWho gives a shit? :)Oct 18 02:19
oiaohmIt don't just leak fewaOct 18 02:19
fewaoiaohm, that increases the acidityOct 18 02:19
oiaohmI know.Oct 18 02:20
fewaif the pH of the ocean raises, it will kill the coralOct 18 02:20
fewa*lowersOct 18 02:20
mutxyea, store the co2 gas in limestone cavaties, water leaches in, soda water = acid = disolving limestone, = release of vast amounts of co2 gas.Oct 18 02:20
DaemonFCwell, as long as they can store it where it won't leak and even if it does, it doesn't leech into drinking water or something, we're goodOct 18 02:20
fewapumping is a jokeOct 18 02:20
oiaohmBut there are orginsimes down in some of those areas that process the co2 as well.Oct 18 02:20
DaemonFCit will take about 20,000 years to break down thoughOct 18 02:20
fewanuclear is much betterOct 18 02:20
fewabut wind, tidal, geothermal are kingOct 18 02:21
Chips_B_Malroyalso, most of the uranium ore is extracted by open pit meansOct 18 02:21
DaemonFCBut good luck with the billions of tonnes of CO2 you get from coalOct 18 02:21
fewaDaemonFC, not to mention sulfur, mercury, etcOct 18 02:21
oiaohmRight areas coal power station could operate for 40 years have a gap for about 50 years and be able to fire up again and repeat the process.Oct 18 02:21
DaemonFCthat will wipe out hundreds of millions of people and thousands of species of plants and animals by the middle of this centuryOct 18 02:21
oiaohmDo to the orginses under ground using earth heat to deal with the CO2Oct 18 02:22
Chips_B_Malroythere was only supposed to be a 25 year supply of uraniumOct 18 02:22
Chips_B_Malroythat is the good newsOct 18 02:22
DaemonFCso given the bad options, nuclear power is probably the least bad choice they can makeOct 18 02:22
fewaChips_B_Malroy, breeder reactorsOct 18 02:22
fewaChips_B_Malroy, you can make all the P239 you wantOct 18 02:22
mutxwe have nuclear fuels to last us thousands of years.Oct 18 02:22
oiaohmNo you cannot fewaOct 18 02:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Dodgy #wikipedia editing from UK Parliament PC ... again http://bit.ly/IdIls no comment from WMF, but these stories don't seem to need itOct 18 02:22
oiaohmAustralia has the largest reserves of nuclear fuel.Oct 18 02:22
mutxyesOct 18 02:23
DaemonFCnuclear power will continue for at least hundreds of years or until something better comes alongOct 18 02:23
oiaohmProblem we have some if it is not usable.Oct 18 02:23
DaemonFCand we'd be doing the next several generations a favor by transitioning to it from fossil fuels sooner rather than laterOct 18 02:23
fewaFrance prooved that it is doableOct 18 02:24
oiaohmThe waste from nuclear will be around for 10 000 years .Oct 18 02:24
mutxwe have alot of a type that is used by a different type of reactor, one that cannot reach critical mass, and that you can just turn off the switch to shut it down.Oct 18 02:24
oiaohmAt least DaemonFCOct 18 02:24
fewa90% nuclear, unhit by OPEC and Russia politicsOct 18 02:24
DaemonFCoiaohm, 10,000 is the half lifeOct 18 02:24
DaemonFCit won't be safe for 20,000Oct 18 02:24
Chips_B_MalroySt Vrain was built in Colorado, it was the same basic model as in Russia at Chernoble. using carbon Oct 18 02:24
oiaohm10 000 is safeOct 18 02:24
DaemonFCfewa, That's where we need to beOct 18 02:24
oiaohmIf its in a particular form  DaemonFCOct 18 02:24
fewanuclear better than Fossil, woorse than wind, geothermal, tidalOct 18 02:24
mutxvery very small volume of waste, that can be safely converted to rock and stored safely.Oct 18 02:24
fewawind is really where it isOct 18 02:24
DaemonFCas cut off from the Oil Producing Peckerheads as possible :)Oct 18 02:24
oiaohmIts a natural form that exists in australia DaemonFCOct 18 02:24
Chips_B_Malroyit never was able to operate at 100% during its testsOct 18 02:25
oiaohmWe just have not worked out how to produce it effectively DaemonFCOct 18 02:25
DaemonFCor is that Oil Producing PECkerheads? :)Oct 18 02:25
fewayou could produce the whole nations power of windOct 18 02:25
*Balrog_ (n=Balrog@166.196.133.8) has joined #boycottnovellOct 18 02:25
oiaohmThe insane part is it might take more power to contain the waste at 10 000 years than the power we got out of nukuler.Oct 18 02:26
DaemonFCthe middle east oil cartels would crash if we got the US on 90% nuclear power and hybrid carsOct 18 02:26
fewaelectric carsOct 18 02:26
DaemonFCmost of those countries don't have anything else to sell usOct 18 02:26
fewaor plug-in hybridsOct 18 02:26
mutxcontaining the waste takes about zero power.Oct 18 02:26
DaemonFCthe arabs are lying about how much crude oil they have left anywayOct 18 02:26
oiaohmChemical alteration to stablise it mutxOct 18 02:26
DaemonFCthey don't want us to panic and look for ways to transition off of itOct 18 02:26
fewaDaemonFC, watch that "who killed the electric car" movie parhapsOct 18 02:26
mutxand far less than trying to pump co2 into the ground.Oct 18 02:26
DaemonFCso they're fudging the amount they have and frantically hunting for moreOct 18 02:27
fewaIts the US oil companies tooOct 18 02:27
fewaand car companiesOct 18 02:27
fewaand anyone that wants an excuse for invading Iraq, etcOct 18 02:27
oiaohmCo2 into ground done right is using earths heat to disposed of waste mutxOct 18 02:27
Chips_B_Malroynuclear power very clean, unless you have a 3mile island or chernoble.  And the low grade waste, can be stored underground, where it becomes part of the water supplyOct 18 02:27
DaemonFCfewa, Invading Iraq is/was a futile gestureOct 18 02:27
schestowitzHeh. Someone flies fireworks outsideOct 18 02:28
DaemonFCif we came for oil, I think they have a lot less than they have let onOct 18 02:28
oiaohmBasically storage and disposal in one mutxOct 18 02:28
mutxwhat goes in eventually comes out, but with geosequestration it will certainly come out.Oct 18 02:28
fewaDaemonFC, Iraq has a _massive_ amount of oilOct 18 02:28
DaemonFCI think the upper management in our government knows it now tooOct 18 02:28
oiaohmAs oil mutxOct 18 02:28
DaemonFCfewa, They're lyingOct 18 02:28
fewaits the last great field of untapped oilOct 18 02:28
mutxwhy not convert it to carbon and mix it with soil ?Oct 18 02:28
schestowitzMaybe they opened their Vista7 'party' pack a week too earlyOct 18 02:28
oiaohmor other reletated mutxOct 18 02:28
DaemonFCso is Saudi ArabiaOct 18 02:28
fewaDaemonFC, its prooven reservesOct 18 02:28
fewa"reserves"Oct 18 02:28
oiaohmIt costs power to turn it into carbon you have to get the power from somewhere mutxOct 18 02:28
DaemonFCfewa, 25-30 years as an optimistic outlookOct 18 02:28
fewayes peak oil is comingOct 18 02:29
fewabut Iraq has alot of oilOct 18 02:29
fewaand the US wants control over itOct 18 02:29
oiaohmEither deep under ground and use earths heat or sun and plants mutxOct 18 02:29
DaemonFCthat gets us to where? 2035 before we have no choice but to ditch oil anyway?Oct 18 02:29
fewaDaemonFC, yes, but rulers do not think long termOct 18 02:29
Chips_B_Malroywe need wind farms everywhere, too bad about the birds it will killOct 18 02:29
DaemonFCby that point we'll be out or so low that the price for what is left shoots up 20 timesOct 18 02:29
fewathey only think the next 5 yearsOct 18 02:29
fewashort-term profitsOct 18 02:30
fewaits just the way they thinkOct 18 02:30
fewaits wrongOct 18 02:30
oiaohmWind farms are not exactly safe.Oct 18 02:30
fewait destroys the countrOct 18 02:30
Chips_B_MalroytrueOct 18 02:30
fewawutOct 18 02:30
fewawind is the way to goOct 18 02:30
fewawhat is wrong with them?Oct 18 02:30
oiaohmAustralia could solve it power problems complete simpley if we were prepard to destory a wonder.Oct 18 02:30
fewaoiaohm, ?Oct 18 02:30
oiaohmThe oceans tidesOct 18 02:30
fewaughhhhOct 18 02:30
*Diablo-D3 has quit ("do coders dream of sheep()?")Oct 18 02:30
fewawindOct 18 02:30
DaemonFCwe have a couple choices (1) Get off oil NOW (2) Fight World War 3 for what's left in a few decadesOct 18 02:30
mutxbig, ugly, enviromentally bad, Oct 18 02:31
oiaohmBasically huge hydro tide driven fewaOct 18 02:31
fewawind is soo cleanOct 18 02:31
fewaso cheapOct 18 02:31
oiaohmCreature lost would be nothing.Oct 18 02:31
fewawind is cheaper than coal!Oct 18 02:31
schestowitzSeems like the FLOSS show raised the # of visitors temporarily by about 10%Oct 18 02:31
oiaohmWe would just lose a 100 percent unquie water fall.Oct 18 02:31
mutxand so ineffective if it's not windy.Oct 18 02:31
fewaif it wasn't for the subsidiesOct 18 02:31
DaemonFCoil and coal are so bad and dirty and such a short term answer, that anything else that produces power is a good ideaOct 18 02:31
oiaohmIe it water falls two directions.Oct 18 02:31
DaemonFCthat's what I thinkOct 18 02:31
Chips_B_Malroywind has been proven to be ok.  But seriously, California has these big wind farms and turns them off (at least the ones by Palm Springs) because they were killing too many birdsOct 18 02:32
fewamutx, we dont have that problem here cause hydro can even it outOct 18 02:32
fewareallyOct 18 02:32
oiaohmThere are tides and currents we don't tap.Oct 18 02:32
fewai thought the wind turbines turned really slowOct 18 02:32
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy, Shoot the birds before they can fly into the turbine and damage itOct 18 02:32
DaemonFCof course, duhOct 18 02:32
fewacause they are so bigOct 18 02:32
fewaoh waitOct 18 02:32
fewai guess at the tips they are turning really fastOct 18 02:32
oiaohmwind is taping air currents.Oct 18 02:33
fewameh, they killed the salmon with the hydroOct 18 02:33
oiaohmwater currents are more dependable.Oct 18 02:33
fewaoiaohm, which is powered by the spinning of the earthOct 18 02:33
Chips_B_Malroyyou need them in places where you get 30mph winds mostlyOct 18 02:33
fewaand coorealis effectOct 18 02:33
oiaohmBut you get carms in wind fewaOct 18 02:33
oiaohmLot of water currents are tide driven.Oct 18 02:33
oiaohmSo are predictable as lock work.Oct 18 02:34
oiaohmlock/clockOct 18 02:34
fewayeahOct 18 02:34
fewawhat about waves?Oct 18 02:34
Chips_B_MalroyThe times without wind you have to have backup plants to produce powerOct 18 02:34
fewahow does it work?Oct 18 02:34
fewaive seen a number of models from a long way backOct 18 02:34
fewalocks and dams?Oct 18 02:34
oiaohmWaves are wind driven not as predictable Oct 18 02:34
*_goblin has quit ("Ex-Chat")Oct 18 02:35
oiaohmAdvantage wind does not have to be near you to get wave.Oct 18 02:35
fewawhat about inslets?Oct 18 02:35
fewalike fjordsOct 18 02:35
fewayou could damn fjordsOct 18 02:35
oiaohmThere is a lot of power in the water ares we don't touch fewaOct 18 02:35
oiaohmWay more than what we need if done right 100 percent clean.Oct 18 02:36
fewaoh yesOct 18 02:36
fewatotally possibleOct 18 02:36
fewaand possible right nowOct 18 02:36
Chips_B_Malroybut it doesn't matter even if the USA had wind farms everywhere.  Yes we could become energy independant, but do you really think that the electric companies would pass on the savings to us?Oct 18 02:36
fewaonly thing holding it back is politicsOct 18 02:36
fewaand corporate welfare for incumbantsOct 18 02:36
oiaohmWind farms have major issues with noise and vibrations.Oct 18 02:36
Chips_B_Malroynot reallyOct 18 02:37
fewaChips_B_Malroy, yeahOct 18 02:37
oiaohmIt is possiable to generate power from water with no moving parts.Oct 18 02:37
fewaat least here where the electric company is a government program Oct 18 02:37
fewaBPA, very similar to TVAOct 18 02:37
oiaohmOk not 100 percent effective.Oct 18 02:37
Chips_B_Malroythey locate they away from peopleOct 18 02:37
fewaand its not all costsOct 18 02:37
oiaohmIe coil of wire and send water threw it.Oct 18 02:37
fewaalot is getting away from coal pollutionOct 18 02:37
oiaohmThat the ammout of water in tidesOct 18 02:37
oiaohmIs so high non moving might generate enough.Oct 18 02:38
fewa"electric companies" is ca misconstructionOct 18 02:38
fewamany corpsOct 18 02:38
fewabondsOct 18 02:38
fewaprivate investmentOct 18 02:38
oiaohmAir cannot be used to generate power without moving parts that effectively.Oct 18 02:38
fewamain effector of electric is wall streetOct 18 02:39
fewaEnronOct 18 02:39
oiaohmLightning is not fun stuff to go after.Oct 18 02:39
oiaohmBasically we are swiming in power.Oct 18 02:39
fewano and there isn't much power in lightningOct 18 02:39
oiaohmSupprising a lot.Oct 18 02:39
mutxand yet we have to dig up dead trees to burn,Oct 18 02:39
fewanot that you can captureOct 18 02:39
fewaltos over lots of spaceOct 18 02:39
oiaohmJapan worked out if they could aquire 10 pecent of it.Oct 18 02:39
fewajust like solar, wind, etcOct 18 02:39
oiaohmThey would not need there reactors.Oct 18 02:40
fewayou would have to build a massive grid in the skyOct 18 02:40
oiaohmProblem is aquiring the bugger.Oct 18 02:40
fewafar harder than solarOct 18 02:40
oiaohmgetting the lighting to come is simple.Oct 18 02:40
oiaohmLaser guided lighting.Oct 18 02:40
fewaand more sporaticOct 18 02:40
fewamuch more sporatic than windOct 18 02:40
oiaohmBeing able to store it when it comes.Oct 18 02:40
oiaohmThat is the problem.Oct 18 02:40
oiaohmIts too much power too fast.Oct 18 02:41
oiaohmWith huge alterations in ammout as well.Oct 18 02:41
Chips_B_MalroyRoy, that Allen link of yours would make a good story, if you have not already done oneOct 18 02:41
mutxvery little energy in waves, very little energy in tidal, very little energy in wind, nothing except gas, coal, or nuclear can provide the base load for industry.Oct 18 02:41
oiaohmSo yep opps bomb.Oct 18 02:41
oiaohmmutx: there is more in tidal particular near the equator.Oct 18 02:42
oiaohmYou are talking 10 metre tides.Oct 18 02:42
oiaohm+Oct 18 02:42
mutxyes, thats the only place, and how long does a tide change take, 2 or 3 hours tops 2 times a day.Oct 18 02:42
oiaohmIts move like a sign wave.Oct 18 02:43
oiaohmMove/moreOct 18 02:43
oiaohmIt is the full day its changing mutxOct 18 02:43
mutxyou even been up north and seen the tides up there ? Oct 18 02:45
mutxwatched harry buttler ?Oct 18 02:45
DaemonFChttp://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/10/mses-first-week-535752-users-four-million-detections.arsOct 18 02:45
phIRCeTitle: One week of MSE: 1.5 million downloads, 4 million detections - Ars Technica .::. Size~: 43.93 KBOct 18 02:45
DaemonFChttp://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/10/sneak-peek-family-guy-meets-windows-7.arsOct 18 02:48
phIRCeTitle: Sneak peek: Family Guy meets Windows 7 - Ars Technica .::. Size~: 44.04 KBOct 18 02:48
DaemonFChehOct 18 02:48
trmancogn guysOct 18 02:49
trmanco!quit phIRCeOct 18 02:49
*phIRCe has quit ("Exiting! phIRCe - I told you so! .::. http://bitbucket.org/trmanco/phirce/")Oct 18 02:49
Chips_B_MalroyThe only thing I can see about the energy situation here in the USA is this.  We are in a depression, and the price of gas is still far too high for the economic times.  There is plenty of supply right now, so its monopolies in the form of cartels and corporations controlling the priceOct 18 02:54
Chips_B_MalroyAnd the gov is controlled by these corporationsOct 18 02:54
Chips_B_Malroyeven if the wind farms came in, these corporations would buy in and control themOct 18 02:55
Chips_B_Malroyuntil the gov starts to enforce antitrust, and sends people who try to control the markplace to jail, nothing will changeOct 18 02:56
Chips_B_MalroyIts the same problem somewhat with M$Oct 18 02:56
fewayou could pull this country out of recession by putting detroit to work on wind farms and tide farmsOct 18 03:03
fewaand not giving $700 billion to criminalsOct 18 03:03
fewabecause they are criminalsOct 18 03:03
Chips_B_Malroywasn't that 700 billion x 2 ?Oct 18 03:05
fewa$350 X 2Oct 18 03:06
fewa+ a few other bailoutsOct 18 03:06
fewa*$350 billion X 2Oct 18 03:06
fewa$350 is already goneOct 18 03:06
fewaand the fed wont even tell congressmen who they gave it toOct 18 03:06
Chips_B_MalroyI thought both Bush and Obama did a 700 and a 800 one between them Oct 18 03:07
fewaoh , maybeOct 18 03:07
Chips_B_MalroyI could be wrong, but don't think soOct 18 03:07
fewawell, enough that they could pay off every person's morgageOct 18 03:07
fewabut they wont do that, noOct 18 03:07
fewacause they have to preserve the system of controlOct 18 03:08
Chips_B_Malroyalso Bush did a 25 billion bailout to detroit, which staved off the problem till Obama had to deal with itOct 18 03:08
Chips_B_Malroyairlines should need a bailout soonOct 18 03:09
Chips_B_Malroyif unemployment does not improve soon, expect more foreclosures, and therefore more bank loses, the bank will be back for another bailoutOct 18 03:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mozilla Unofficially Joins #ECIS and Opera in Opposition to Microsoft’s Deal in #Europe http://ur1.ca/du6vOct 18 03:11
fewaevery foreclosure is a huge loss to a bank Oct 18 03:12
fewathey banks would make money if they just renegotiated the loansOct 18 03:12
fewayet they dont do thatOct 18 03:12
Chips_B_Malroyif you don't have income, you cannot pay anywayOct 18 03:12
fewaevery person you kick out of a home is a loss to the economyOct 18 03:13
Chips_B_Malroyso only real alternative it to postpone the paymentsOct 18 03:13
fewaIts jsut an attempt to force a landlord tenet feudal societyOct 18 03:13
Chips_B_Malroywe are already slaves to the systemOct 18 03:13
fewaThe "system" is a jokeOct 18 03:14
fewaany system that takes Oct 18 03:14
fewathe public's money, and uses to take away peoples housesOct 18 03:14
fewathats a jokeOct 18 03:14
Chips_B_Malroyagreed, but the correct word is corruptionOct 18 03:15
schestowitz[02:41] <Chips_B_Malroy> Roy, that Allen link of yours would make a good story, if you have not already done oneOct 18 03:15
schestowitzDone alreadyOct 18 03:15
schestowitzWe have like 8000 postsOct 18 03:15
Chips_B_Malroyah, I should have knownOct 18 03:15
fewastate governments are far betterOct 18 03:15
fewaand might I say, saneOct 18 03:15
Chips_B_Malroyyou think?Oct 18 03:16
fewaalthough there are some strong attempts to corrupt themOct 18 03:16
schestowitz[03:08] <fewa> cause they have to preserve the system of controlOct 18 03:16
fewaespecially initivesOct 18 03:16
schestowitzHalliburton is in control stllOct 18 03:16
fewano-bid contractsOct 18 03:16
schestowitzLast I heard, Blackwater will also change its nameOct 18 03:16
fewato the vice president (former)Oct 18 03:16
schestowitzY'know, to dodge bad reputationOct 18 03:16
fewakinda smells of conflict of interestOct 18 03:17
fewaschestowitz, blackwater changes its name every weekOct 18 03:17
Chips_B_Malroyso Blackwater might change its name?  Sounds like a page out of the Microsoft manual of renaming failed products Oct 18 03:17
fewaschestowitz, look at the lawsuit, tons of "in name" corpsOct 18 03:17
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Chips_B_Malroynew name=new product   at least in most people's mindsOct 18 03:19
schestowitzfewa: how about redwater?Oct 18 03:19
schestowitzNext iteration: red riverOct 18 03:19
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fewaEric prince: "views himself as a Christian crusader tasked with eliminating Muslims and the Islamic faith from the globe,"Oct 18 03:19
fewaaccording to sworn testimony of former Blackwater employee and an ex-US MarineOct 18 03:20
fewahttp://www.thenation.com/doc/20090817/scahillOct 18 03:20
fewahttp://wikileaks.org/wiki/Sealed_complaint_against_JP_Morgan_Chase%2C_Citigroup_and_Nelnet_for_defrauding_the_United_States_government%2C_19_May_2008Oct 18 03:21
fewaSealed complaint against JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup and Nelnet for defrauding the United States government, 19 May 2008Oct 18 03:21
fewahttps://secure.wikileaks.org/wiki/Xe-Blackwater_warcrimes_case:_employee_declarations%2C_legal_complaint_and_motions%2C_2009Oct 18 03:22
fewahttps://secure.wikileaks.org/wiki/Xe-Blackwater_warcrimes_case:_complaint%2C_2009Oct 18 03:22
fewahttps://secure.wikileaks.org/wiki/Xe-Blackwater_warcrimes_case:_employee_declaration%2C_2009Oct 18 03:22
oiaohmfewa:  yep insane Christians still live.Oct 18 03:22
Chips_B_Malroyas well as Muslims and other religionsOct 18 03:23
Chips_B_Malroyno religion, group, has control of all crazyOct 18 03:24
oiaohmAt least insane buddhists normally not a worry to anyone other than budhists religion leaders lifes.Oct 18 03:25
Chips_B_Malroywas probably was some crazy budhists at one time, but the examples elude me right offOct 18 03:26
Chips_B_Malroymaybe some of the buddists monks that set themselves on fire in vietmanOct 18 03:26
oiaohmSee normally not risk to others.Oct 18 03:27
Chips_B_Malroythe memory is going, but sometimes I due rememberOct 18 03:27
DaemonFCI still wonder what planes the Christians hijacked and flew into buildingsOct 18 03:27
Chips_B_Malroyrisk to others?  fire hazardOct 18 03:27
DaemonFCor what buses they blew upOct 18 03:27
oiaohmDaemonFC:  could happen.Oct 18 03:27
DaemonFCor what embassies or ships they bombedOct 18 03:27
DaemonFCetc.Oct 18 03:27
DaemonFCoiaohm, But has it?Oct 18 03:27
DaemonFCnoOct 18 03:27
oiaohmBombing embassies has happened from Christians.Oct 18 03:28
Chips_B_Malroyevery religion has their craziesOct 18 03:28
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DaemonFCthe crazy spectrum must not go as far for Christians as it does for MuslimsOct 18 03:28
oiaohmJust not for a long time.Oct 18 03:28
DaemonFCseems like with Muslims, it's always some damned thingOct 18 03:28
oiaohmLot of the Christian crazys hae been terminated.Oct 18 03:28
DaemonFCnot a day goes by that they don't murder people right and leftOct 18 03:28
oiaohmAlso Christians have not had moviation to go nuts recently.Oct 18 03:28
Chips_B_Malroylike the SudanOct 18 03:28
oiaohmIf you don't watch it sections of christians will turn as bad as the Muslims.Oct 18 03:29
oiaohmMiss quoting texts and all.Oct 18 03:29
Chips_B_Malroyyes, hate is a virus that spreadsOct 18 03:29
oiaohmBasically you need to look over the past 1000 years DaemonFCOct 18 03:30
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oiaohmWe are just in the worst point of the Muslims.Oct 18 03:30
Chips_B_Malroymore like 1400 yearsOct 18 03:30
DaemonFCThere's probably been more people murdered in cold blood by Muslims in the last 10 years than by Christians in the last 1,000Oct 18 03:30
oiaohmThere have been points were Christians have been worse.Oct 18 03:30
Chips_B_Malroytrue, the crusadesOct 18 03:31
oiaohmThere is a big population now DaemonFCOct 18 03:31
oiaohmOn percentage of poplutation killed at the time.Oct 18 03:31
Chips_B_Malroybut the crusades were a reactionOct 18 03:31
DaemonFCthe Crusades were a warOct 18 03:31
oiaohmYou are forgetting the taking of the ammericas.Oct 18 03:31
DaemonFCthe Muslims don't just kill as a part of warOct 18 03:31
oiaohmWhere it was fine to kill the non christians.Oct 18 03:31
DaemonFCthey kill anyone they canOct 18 03:31
Chips_B_Malroyto the closing of the holy lands by the Muslim authories at the time Oct 18 03:32
oiaohmChristian vs non Muslim has happened a lot.Oct 18 03:32
Chips_B_MalroyMost Muslims just want to live a normal life like the rest of usOct 18 03:32
oiaohmChristians  are not squeey clean Like the bibble being use to justify killing witches.Oct 18 03:33
Chips_B_Malroyhow about the "taking of australia?"Oct 18 03:33
oiaohmThat was a mixture of things.Oct 18 03:33
Chips_B_Malroyits all in the interpertation, isn't it?Oct 18 03:33
oiaohmRelegion was not a factor.Oct 18 03:33
Chips_B_Malroysame with the Koran as wellOct 18 03:33
oiaohmCulture problem was Australian.Oct 18 03:34
oiaohmThe whites did not see that since land did not appear to be farmed that it was owned and cared for.Oct 18 03:34
Chips_B_Malroyit was not a religious thing here, unless you mean the pilgrams leaving England because of religous perscution?Oct 18 03:34
oiaohmSpanards at the time.Oct 18 03:35
oiaohmtook native amercians back to prove they were non human so they were right to kill them as animals under the bible Chips_B_MalroyOct 18 03:35
Chips_B_MalroyI will not argue with the Spanards for destroying the Aztecs religionOct 18 03:35
oiaohmOf course the case went against them.Oct 18 03:35
Chips_B_Malroyin fact I say they did the moral thingOct 18 03:36
oiaohmDestroying Aztecs religion one thing.Oct 18 03:36
oiaohmKilling the population to do it.Oct 18 03:36
Chips_B_Malroysmallpox did 80% of thatOct 18 03:36
oiaohmAnd treating the population as worthless slaves.Oct 18 03:36
*Xarver (n=kenny@cpe-76-173-101-172.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #boycottnovellOct 18 03:36
oiaohmThen having to balls to try to use the bible to justify it.Oct 18 03:37
Chips_B_Malroybut your point was religion and what the spanish did with itOct 18 03:37
Chips_B_Malroyah, okkOct 18 03:37
Chips_B_Malroythe "heathen" must be converted and taughtOct 18 03:38
Chips_B_Malroybut in this case, taught means enslavedOct 18 03:38
oiaohmOr killed Chips_B_MalroyOct 18 03:38
oiaohmIt was bad abuse of bible.Oct 18 03:38
Chips_B_Malroykilling is the ultimate form of government control oiaohmOct 18 03:39
Chips_B_MalroyTerrior is a form of controlOct 18 03:39
oiaohmChristians have been lucky.Oct 18 03:39
Chips_B_Malroythe Aztecs themselves used terrior in killingsOct 18 03:39
oiaohmMost of our radicals are no more.Oct 18 03:39
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy, As in little dogs?Oct 18 03:39
DaemonFC:)Oct 18 03:39
Chips_B_Malroydogs of warOct 18 03:40
cubezzzRomans put the beat-down on the ChristiansOct 18 03:40
cubezzzfor a timeOct 18 03:40
DaemonFCSony is buying 3 minute ads on HuluOct 18 03:40
DaemonFC:POct 18 03:40
Chips_B_MalroyReligion is all about who interperts the religions, if you stop thinking for yourselves, wellOct 18 03:40
oiaohmThat is the issue Chips_B_MalroyOct 18 03:41
cubezzznow we got Operating Systems :)Oct 18 03:41
Chips_B_MalroyAztec civilization was evilOct 18 03:41
oiaohmWe are just in a time when Mulsims religion is getting abused.Oct 18 03:41
oiaohmAnother 100 years time it could be another religion.Oct 18 03:41
oiaohmIt would be realy impressive if its buddhish next.Oct 18 03:42
*cubezzz waits for the Church of RationalityOct 18 03:42
Chips_B_MalroyMuslim religion needs to change with the times, and become a gentler more benevolant religion, open to toleranceOct 18 03:42
Chips_B_Malroyand I do not know how others can help them do thatOct 18 03:42
cubezzza mixture of Science and Religion maybeOct 18 03:43
oiaohmChips_B_Malroy: sections of Muslim all ready are.Oct 18 03:43
Chips_B_Malroythey do not have any central organization, like the pope.  Oct 18 03:43
oiaohmMuslim is a highly splintered religion.Oct 18 03:44
Chips_B_MalroyThe Calipah (misspelled sorry) was the last one in charge of the religion, and the muslim empireOct 18 03:44
oiaohmSome sections are fine.  Other sections need to be terminated.Oct 18 03:44
oiaohmMind you the sections that need to be terminated are partly working on doing that themselves.Oct 18 03:45
oiaohmIe I want control of more people so I will kill the other groups leader.Oct 18 03:45
Chips_B_MalroyBecause religion should serve mankind, making life here on earth a better place for allOct 18 03:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Windows Has More Infections Than Machines http://bit.ly/8WopROct 18 03:45
Chips_B_MalroyI wonder if Muslims have a ten commandments too?Oct 18 03:46
Chips_B_Malroyas in "thou shall not kill."Oct 18 03:46
Chips_B_Malroynot saying that to be funny, I just do not knowOct 18 03:46
Chips_B_Malroyit worked for about 300 years for Christians, until ConstantineOct 18 03:47
oiaohmThe muslims do.Oct 18 03:47
DaemonFCmeh, I'm just leaving Vista on here til Windows 7 comes in my mailOct 18 03:47
DaemonFCembrace the horrorOct 18 03:47
oiaohmBut they also have that you can kill to protect self Chips_B_MalroyOct 18 03:47
DaemonFCspeaking of operating systems, that isOct 18 03:47
oiaohmThat gets abused bady Chips_B_MalroyOct 18 03:47
oiaohmKilling unarmed person is not self defence.Oct 18 03:48
Chips_B_Malroyits in the interpertationOct 18 03:48
Chips_B_Malroyor who interpertsOct 18 03:48
Chips_B_Malroyor who counts the votesOct 18 03:48
Chips_B_Malroyor in the eula that ms makesOct 18 03:48
Chips_B_MalroyinterpertationOct 18 03:49
Chips_B_Malroyany religioin maybe set up good or bad, but if your interpertation is flawed, it becomes mind controlOct 18 03:49
Chips_B_Malroyalso, these books contain enough words that conflicts in meaning can be found oftenOct 18 03:50
Chips_B_Malroyfor someone who would rather change of religion of love into one of hateOct 18 03:51
Chips_B_Malroyreligion can be a good thing, as most people are not thinkers.  Most people need a moral guide to live by Oct 18 03:52
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Chips_B_MalroyBut if your religion is Micro$oft, you are truely lost.Oct 18 03:56
DaemonFChttp://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/17/earlyshow/saturday/main5392367.shtmlOct 18 03:56
DaemonFCnow there's outrage when some bigot tells a man and a woman they can't marryOct 18 03:56
DaemonFCsee how it is?Oct 18 03:56
Chips_B_Malroyone personOct 18 03:56
Chips_B_Malroyjust someone fire him and move onOct 18 03:57
DaemonFCgay people get to deal with this crap in just about every city and stateOct 18 03:58
DaemonFCand at the federal levelOct 18 03:58
DaemonFCit's nice to see a straight couple get slapped in the face with the same bigotry even if it's not on a national levelOct 18 03:59
Chips_B_Malroydown south there is a little more of thatOct 18 03:59
Chips_B_Malroynot like it used to be thoughOct 18 04:00
DaemonFChttp://www.pcworld.com/article/173863/firefox_foils_microsofts_security_hole.htmlOct 18 04:01
Chips_B_Malroyone day there will be another blaster type worm to hit windowsOct 18 04:04
qsheetsI hope it's soonOct 18 04:07
Chips_B_Malroyconflicker might have been itOct 18 04:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More on Gates’ Evil Foundation ( #GMO ) http://bit.ly/fyNwkOct 18 04:17
schestowitzfewa: I quoted you there ^Oct 18 04:18
DaemonFCthis back massaging chair is really helping, it has already broken up a few knotsOct 18 04:20
DaemonFCthe chiropractor I go to did wonders for my back and neck, I was walking with a limp for a week and a half after the seizures before I got in to see himOct 18 04:23
Chips_B_Malroyhot tub would be good for thatOct 18 04:25
DaemonFCmy neck and back were out of alignment, majorlyOct 18 04:26
Chips_B_Malroyso a lot more than just musle painOct 18 04:27
DaemonFCyou should have heard him going to work on me, it was like the sound of crunching a bag of potato chips every time he did something elseOct 18 04:27
DaemonFCoh yeahOct 18 04:27
DaemonFCwhen I said those seizures were like getting ran over by a truck, I wasn't exagerrating all that much reallyOct 18 04:27
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DaemonFCthe chiropractor I go to is excellent, back in 2006 I came home one morning from work and sat down and ate breakfast and checked my email, and couldn't stand up againOct 18 04:29
DaemonFCI had to have my ex grab my hands and help me upOct 18 04:29
DaemonFCI made it down to the chiropractor somehow and he fixed me right upOct 18 04:30
DaemonFCI was back at work that nightOct 18 04:30
DaemonFCthere's good chiropractors and bad chiropractors jsut like there's good and bad of any other kind of doctorOct 18 04:31
DaemonFCI really hope this guy never retires thoughOct 18 04:31
DaemonFCI also had the unusually good sense to buy a really expensive bed when I had the money toOct 18 04:34
DaemonFCit doesn't use springs, it uses coils, so the box springs never really wear outOct 18 04:35
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Chips_B_MalroySo is M$ planning on an Office Starter edition that uses advertising to pay it?Oct 18 04:38
DaemonFCdoubt itOct 18 04:44
DaemonFCadvertising doesn't pay the big bucks they wantOct 18 04:44
DaemonFCWhy cheapen the brand? Oct 18 04:44
DaemonFCthey can keep dumping cheap copies on students and teachersOct 18 04:45
Chips_B_Malroyyes, exactly.  They would canabalize their own profitsOct 18 04:45
Chips_B_Malroybut they are afriad of Google Chrome OS and google appsOct 18 04:45
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy, When Vista came out they were giving away free copies of Vista and Office 2003 if you agreed to let them spy on youOct 18 04:45
DaemonFCthey shitcanned that program within a monthOct 18 04:46
Chips_B_Malroyjust as well, they spy on users anywayOct 18 04:46
DaemonFCI really don't have much use for an Office program except on occasionOct 18 04:46
DaemonFCmost of the time, it sits there doing nothingOct 18 04:46
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy, No, they ask you to join the Customer Experience Improvement Program ;)Oct 18 04:47
DaemonFCand grey out the "No" optionOct 18 04:47
DaemonFC:DOct 18 04:47
Chips_B_Malroysame here, abiword is good enough except for about every four years when I need a picture added to a docOct 18 04:48
Chips_B_MalroyexceptOct 18 04:48
DaemonFCthe Novell OOXML plugin is good enough to export with most of the timeOct 18 04:48
Chips_B_Malroylike when I made flyers to sell somethingOct 18 04:48
tessierI wonder what Miguel will have to say about Jeremy's blog entry...Oct 18 04:48
Chips_B_Malroymost likely nothingOct 18 04:48
Chips_B_Malroyand hope it goes awayOct 18 04:49
Chips_B_Malroybut it won't go away, will it?Oct 18 04:49
DaemonFCthe internet has an annoying habit of copying things you postOct 18 04:50
DaemonFC:POct 18 04:50
Chips_B_Malroyif mono and moonlight went to the restricted repo's, that would put it out of the way for most newbiesOct 18 04:50
DaemonFConce you post it, you may never be able to get rid of itOct 18 04:50
DaemonFCCanonical is pushing MonoOct 18 04:51
DaemonFCdefending it tooOct 18 04:51
fewaschestowitz, you should quote The Nation articleOct 18 04:51
Chips_B_Malroythey may go too farOct 18 04:51
Chips_B_MalroyMark Shuttleworth most likely thinks he and his company cannot be sued because there are no patents at the Isle of MannOct 18 04:54
fewahttp://www.thenation.com/doc/20090921/patel_et_alOct 18 04:54
Chips_B_MalroyBut I think they most likely have some assets in this country that M$ could go afterOct 18 04:54
fewaChips_B_Malroy, canonical is a small publically facing company, there are many, more likely aims of attacksOct 18 04:57
fewalike corporate users of softwareOct 18 04:57
Chips_B_Malroyyes, but ubuntu is getting into the server commercial market nowOct 18 04:57
fewathe idea is to create FUDOct 18 04:57
fewaChips_B_Malroy, i really dont see why, when it is just debianOct 18 04:58
DaemonFCyeah, that MS may come after your customersOct 18 04:58
DaemonFClike SCO suing Auto ZoneOct 18 04:58
Chips_B_Malroyclearly MS has now gone beyond the FUD stageOct 18 04:58
fewabut ms will atack customers, more fud and less pr hit to take that routeOct 18 04:58
Chips_B_Malroywith the fat32 long file names suitOct 18 04:58
fewaits just a higher level of fearOct 18 04:58
fewaas in real law suitsOct 18 04:58
fewareal lawsuits do create fearOct 18 04:59
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] “ #Mono Mania” Carries on and #Evolution Includes Mono http://bit.ly/37ibAhOct 18 05:09
schestowitz[04:51] <fewa> schestowitz, you should quote The Nation articleOct 18 05:10
schestowitzWhich one?Oct 18 05:10
schestowitzThe older GMO one?Oct 18 05:10
schestowitzI cited it hereOct 18 05:10
fewaahh okOct 18 05:10
schestowitzfewa: Oh, I see nowOct 18 05:11
schestowitzYes, that's the article I showed GlynOct 18 05:12
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Omar87Hi all.Oct 18 05:15
fewahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK44oAyOPoUOct 18 05:15
fewaAlan Grayson on Bill Maher: GOP Health Care Reform Would Be Letting You Bring A Gun to the DoctorOct 18 05:15
fewaMaher seemed differn'tOct 18 05:15
Omar87oiaohm, are you around?Oct 18 05:16
DaemonFCyou should be able to bring a gunOct 18 05:17
DaemonFCif the doctor insists on name brand, shoot himOct 18 05:17
tessierI'm all for being able to bring a gunOct 18 05:18
schestowitz!google abortionist shotOct 18 05:21
schestowitzOh, the bot ain't here, never mindOct 18 05:21
schestowitzIt's 5am here, enough for meOct 18 05:21
Omar87Has any of you seen a video about animals being skinned alive in China?Oct 18 05:22
fewathat happens in the USOct 18 05:24
fewajust watch "Roger and Me"Oct 18 05:24
fewaMichael MooreOct 18 05:25
fewao wait, the animals are deadOct 18 05:25
fewastill, its in the movieOct 18 05:25
Omar87fewa, It makes think a hundred times before buying anything from a brand store.Oct 18 05:27
Omar87It makes *you* think...Oct 18 05:27
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[d235j] RT @GuyKawasaki: Why you should visit England before you die http://om.ly/NuFSOct 18 05:51
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tessierhttp://old.imgur.com/Hkw5E.jpg "Freedom can go to hell"Oct 18 06:01
tessierComplete brainwashed nutters.Oct 18 06:01
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cubezzzlol, I was almost expecting MIcrosoft signsOct 18 06:08
tessierIndeed.Oct 18 06:19
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Two day free Ubuntu 9.04 Cloud Course. Limited availability for tomorrow and Tuesday. http://bit.ly/1mUPa9 ping @dinda to book a place.Oct 18 10:50
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*schestowitz gets upOct 18 11:00
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*qsheets wonders what would happen if people never needed to sleepOct 18 11:20
MinceRH[E]LL advertises vista7 >> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/10/15/0442259/Michael-Dell-Says-Windows-7-Will-Make-You-Love-PCs?from=rssOct 18 11:22
schestowitzHehe.Oct 18 11:23
schestowitzNo, /. advertises itOct 18 11:23
schestowitzI was just writing about thisOct 18 11:23
schestowitzIt's ShillTime(R) cause the release of V7 is nearOct 18 11:23
MinceRyes, both dell and /. advertise it, togetherOct 18 11:25
MinceRi thought this might help those who still believe that dell supports gnu/linuxOct 18 11:25
qsheetsis it just me, or is twitter down?Oct 18 11:26
oiaohmHere comes the windows 7 adds.Oct 18 11:27
oiaohmIf Windows 7 flops too MS will be really in trouble.Oct 18 11:27
qsheetsMAKE IT FLOP!!!Oct 18 11:27
oiaohmDell does support Linux to a point MinceROct 18 11:30
oiaohmProblem is money is money.Oct 18 11:30
MinceRonly to the point where it helps them get better deals from m$Oct 18 11:31
oiaohmSo equalling more profit MinceROct 18 11:32
oiaohmAdvertising Windows 7 also gets them discounts MinceROct 18 11:32
oiaohmIts all about the money.Oct 18 11:32
MinceRi knowOct 18 11:32
oiaohmWhen you know there motivation they are controlable.Oct 18 11:33
oiaohmAnd useful,.Oct 18 11:33
MinceRthe FLOSS community can't afford to throw that much money at themOct 18 11:35
MinceRnor would it be rightOct 18 11:35
qsheetspoor twitterOct 18 11:35
MinceRm$ and their henchmen must be punished for their behavior.Oct 18 11:35
qsheetsfire BallmerOct 18 11:36
qsheets<(^^,)>Oct 18 11:36
MinceRthat's not enoughOct 18 11:36
MinceRthere are more bastards in the lineOct 18 11:36
MinceRalso, if he only gets fired, he gets to keep all the money he doesn't deserveOct 18 11:37
MinceRnot much of a deterrentOct 18 11:37
qsheetsget more companies like i4i to file more lawsuitsOct 18 11:38
schestowitz[11:26] <qsheets> is it just me, or is twitter down?Oct 18 11:39
schestowitzFine hereOct 18 11:39
schestowitz[11:32] <oiaohm> Advertising Windows 7 also gets them discounts MinceROct 18 11:40
schestowitzYes, we know cause we have the receiptsOct 18 11:40
qsheetsschestowitz: try 168.143.162.116Oct 18 11:41
qsheetsthat's the address i have for twitterOct 18 11:41
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oiaohmLack of anti-virus support is one of Linux problem.Oct 18 11:46
oiaohmCommon addon for extra cash is antivirus.Oct 18 11:46
qsheetsschestowitz: what IP do you have for twitter?Oct 18 11:47
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Analysts Mock Free Software and Praise #Vista 7 http://bit.ly/j6MRwOct 18 11:56
MinceRthey could instead spend less on licenses, sell the hw for the same price or only a little cheaper, and keep the extra profitOct 18 11:57
schestowitzroy@roy:~$ ping 168.143.162.116Oct 18 11:57
schestowitzPING 168.143.162.116 (168.143.162.116) 56(84) bytes of data.Oct 18 11:57
schestowitz64 bytes from 168.143.162.116: icmp_seq=1 ttl=239 time=154 msOct 18 11:57
schestowitz64 bytes from 168.143.162.116: icmp_seq=2 ttl=239 time=150 msOct 18 11:57
schestowitzqsheets: loads up OK as http as wellOct 18 11:58
trmanco123... andOct 18 11:58
*phIRCe (n=b0t@bl8-237-232.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovellOct 18 11:58
schestowitz!google  phIRCeOct 18 11:59
phIRCeHello World!Oct 18 11:59
phIRCe[1] - trmanco / phIRCe / overview — bitbucket.org | http://bitbucket.org/trmanco/phirce/Oct 18 11:59
phIRCe[2] - IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 15th, 2009 | http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/irc-log-15102009.htmlOct 18 11:59
phIRCe[3] - IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 16th, 2009 | http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/irc-log-16102009.htmlOct 18 11:59
phIRCe[4] - phIRCe - PHP IRC bot | http://www.portugal-a-programar.org/forum/index.php%3Ftopic%3D40290.0Oct 18 11:59
trmancohahaOct 18 11:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Bom dia a todos!Oct 18 12:04
qsheetsschestowitz: both my macbook and my server 250 miles away say it's not loadingOct 18 12:05
qsheets:(Oct 18 12:05
trmancoExecutable: kmail PID: 4267 Signal: 6 (Aborted)Oct 18 12:25
trmancogreatOct 18 12:25
trmancoand now I don't have any debug symbols installed to help :|Oct 18 12:26
Diablo-D3http://www.reddit.com/tb/9v71xOct 18 12:36
phIRCeTitle: Learn English [NSFW] via reddit.com .::. Size~: 1.3 KBOct 18 12:36
Diablo-D3erOct 18 12:36
Diablo-D3wrong urlOct 18 12:36
Diablo-D3http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mivM7vrQKmcOct 18 12:36
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - Sexy banned commercial microsoft AD .::. Size~: 129.48 KBOct 18 12:36
Diablo-D3there we goOct 18 12:36
Diablo-D3wtf microsoftOct 18 12:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Novell Has New Products: More #SoftwarePatents http://bit.ly/1nr1qk #swpatOct 18 12:38
phIRCeTitle: Novell Has New Products: More Software Patents | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 104.41 KBOct 18 12:38
schestowitzDiablo-D3: old newsOct 18 12:38
schestowitzThere's worseOct 18 12:39
schestowitzThere's one where they show an underage girl in a car that's rocking (sex)Oct 18 12:39
schestowitzIIRC, British ad authorities tore that downOct 18 12:39
schestowitzhttp://arebentisch.wordpress.com/2009/10/17/alternativeto/Oct 18 12:45
phIRCeTitle: Alternativeto «  Sköne Oke .::. Size~: 14.69 KBOct 18 12:46
schestowitzIraqi army confronted UK deportation officials on Baghdad plane http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/16/unhcr-uk-baghdad-deportations.Oct 18 12:47
phIRCeTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KBOct 18 12:47
schestowitzIsrael rejects UN council backing for Gaza war crimes report http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/16/gaza-war-crimes-un-vote Israel is in denial.Oct 18 12:47
oiaohmhttp://www.linux.com/news/enterprise/biz-enterprise/135546:linux-succeeds-across-the-board  Not numbers MS people want to hear.Oct 18 12:48
schestowitzhttp://blog.remoteresponder.net/2009/10/16/customization-upgradeability-and-eternally-regenerative-software-administration/Oct 18 12:48
phIRCeTitle: Managing FOSS for Business Results  » Blog Archive   » Customization, Upgradeability and Eternally Regenerative Software Administration .::. Size~: 15.1 KBOct 18 12:49
schestowitzoiaohm: exactlyOct 18 12:49
schestowitzThey want to perpetuate the myth that Linux is chasing forever a 1% market shareOct 18 12:49
oiaohmAnd they realy don't like talking cross platform development either if its something that works like QT>Oct 18 12:50
schestowitzhttp://www.unixmen.com/news-today/471-the-winner-is-google-chromeOct 18 12:50
schestowitzoiaohm: +1Oct 18 12:51
schestowitzhttp://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/10/will-linux-be-the-dominant-os-for-consumer-electronics.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rssOct 18 12:51
phIRCeTitle: Will Linux be the dominant OS for consumer electronics? - Ars Technica .::. Size~: 45.67 KBOct 18 12:51
schestowitzoiaohm: what do you think abt http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2009/10/comparing-kde-4-and-gnome-3.htmlOct 18 12:52
phIRCeTitle: aseigo: comparing "KDE 4" and "GNOME 3" .::. Size~: 104.35 KBOct 18 12:52
schestowitzhttp://www.idreamoflinux.com/2009/10/growth-of-linux.html :-)Oct 18 12:55
oiaohmWhat is always missed with the Gnome and KDE compares is where they are merging.Oct 18 12:55
oiaohmLike both are using policykit backends these days.Oct 18 12:56
oiaohmBoth are using a common sys tray format.Oct 18 12:56
oiaohmBasically they are merging very slowly.Oct 18 12:56
schestowitzYes, exactlyOct 18 12:56
schestowitzBut... alas, it's old news, no?Oct 18 12:56
schestowitzI could run gnome-panel over x-session in Windows even in 2001Oct 18 12:57
schestowitzAnd in gnome I could run KDE/Qt apps nicelyOct 18 12:57
oiaohmBoth back in 2001 had different incompadible systrays.Oct 18 12:57
schestowitzI remember when nedit was my favourite editor, before I started using kateOct 18 12:57
oiaohmThat use to glich up or look out of place.Oct 18 12:57
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, that I remember. systray issues sometimesOct 18 12:58
oiaohmPeople don't notice the small changes of the merge.Oct 18 12:58
schestowitzI used notify icons like xbiffOct 18 12:58
schestowitzIn Enlightenment mostlyOct 18 12:58
oiaohmIt would be better of we could focus on speeding up the merge.Oct 18 12:58
oiaohmCommon theming format would be really nice.Oct 18 12:58
schestowitzI think it's being done. Seigo writes about itOct 18 12:58
schestowitzoiaohm: Mandriva sorta does thatOct 18 12:59
schestowitzOr maybe kde4Oct 18 12:59
schestowitzBasically, gtk stuff inherits qt settingsOct 18 12:59
schestowitzYou can see it in the new 'kcontrol' (it's no longer called that)Oct 18 12:59
oiaohmThat is a little more evil.Oct 18 12:59
oiaohmGTK to QT bindings schestowitzOct 18 12:59
schestowitzIt has something like "apply colour scheme to gtk apps'Oct 18 12:59
schestowitzBut kde3 had this too, it did not always workOct 18 12:59
oiaohmGTK does not have a reverse.Oct 18 13:00
schestowitzIn ubuntu 7.04 I had another phenomenonOct 18 13:00
oiaohmIe QT to GTK bindings.Oct 18 13:00
schestowitzIf a GTK app appeared in kde-desktop it would be stripped from style initiallyOct 18 13:00
schestowitzAfter a while it would maybe load up the whole theme-ing (?) part and apply skinsOct 18 13:00
schestowitzI don't know whyOct 18 13:01
schestowitzMaybe a memory management thingOct 18 13:01
oiaohmBoth GTK and QT are moving to like CSS based theming.Oct 18 13:01
oiaohmJust wish they would put heards togther and design a single file for it.Oct 18 13:01
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/17/ibm_insider_trading_arrest/Oct 18 13:03
phIRCeTitle: Feds’ insider trading wiretap snares IBM heir apparent • The Register .::. Size~: 26.83 KBOct 18 13:03
*Tallken has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))Oct 18 13:06
schestowitzMan #2 at iBM. Wow.Oct 18 13:08
schestowitzBach from Microsoft should be arrested tooOct 18 13:08
schestowitzHe's a Microsoft President, also caught inside-tradingOct 18 13:09
schestowitzhttp://www.goldmansachs666.com/2009/10/goldman-sachs-wall-street-jihadis.htmlOct 18 13:09
phIRCeTitle: Goldman Sachs: Wall Street Jihadis ~ Goldman Sachs Information, Comments, Opinions and Facts .::. Size~: 97.55 KBOct 18 13:10
Diablo-D3schestowitz: you know what the problem with that site is?Oct 18 13:19
Diablo-D3it gives GS more credit than they deserveOct 18 13:19
schestowitzYou man, isolation?Oct 18 13:19
schestowitzThey can't run too many sites though they own many *666 domainsOct 18 13:20
schestowitz /s/man/man/Oct 18 13:20
schestowitz /s/man/men/Oct 18 13:20
schestowitz /s/man/mean/Oct 18 13:20
schestowitz*sighOct 18 13:20
Diablo-D3not only that, you fail at regexenOct 18 13:20
Diablo-D3its s/foo/bar/Oct 18 13:20
schestowitzwith grep yeahOct 18 13:20
Diablo-D3with perl and sed and java and and and and...Oct 18 13:21
trmancohttp://milianw.de/blog/first-experience-with-archlinuxOct 18 13:21
phIRCeTitle: first experience with Archlinux | Milian Wolff .::. Size~: 22.42 KBOct 18 13:21
schestowitzhttp://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-10372359-245.htmlOct 18 13:22
phIRCeTitle: Adobe exploit puts backdoor on computers | InSecurity Complex - CNET News .::. Size~: 132.36 KBOct 18 13:22
Diablo-D3ughOct 18 13:23
Diablo-D3that guy's blog needs to stop being a WALL OF TEXTOct 18 13:23
schestowitzhttp://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=205245Oct 18 13:23
phIRCeTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 500 Internal Server Error .::. Size~: 0 KBOct 18 13:23
schestowitz"/index_View.asp, line 33"Oct 18 13:23
schestowitzIran uses ASP?Oct 18 13:23
schestowitzNo embargo?Oct 18 13:23
schestowitzThey should use FOSSOct 18 13:23
schestowitzDiablo-D3: yes, wall of text is almost as annoying as paginationOct 18 13:24
Diablo-D3pagination at least I can readOct 18 13:24
schestowitzIn BN I weave in blockquotes, pictures and other stuff that's more inviting, at least visuallyOct 18 13:24
Diablo-D3your shits hard to read too, actuallyOct 18 13:25
Diablo-D3just lessOct 18 13:25
Diablo-D3er, less harderOct 18 13:25
schestowitzless harder?Oct 18 13:25
schestowitzmore fastlyOct 18 13:25
schestowitzprecisely exavctlyOct 18 13:25
Diablo-D3you need to insert a lot more white spaceOct 18 13:26
Diablo-D3and you need to drop your three column effectOct 18 13:26
schestowitzI didOct 18 13:29
schestowitzAfter people had complainedOct 18 13:29
Diablo-D3look at how the stories pages are setupOct 18 13:29
schestowitzI thought you meant this: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/28/microsoft-kickbacks-cycle/Oct 18 13:30
phIRCeTitle: How the Microsoft Kickbacks Cycle Works | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 115.56 KBOct 18 13:30
schestowitz3 column parasOct 18 13:30
Diablo-D3noOct 18 13:30
Diablo-D3that'd be two columns inside the most left columnOct 18 13:30
schestowitzFunny headline: http://www.crn.com/retail/220600800;jsessionid=NHNACFLTUCMRHQE1GHPSKHWATMY32JVNOct 18 13:31
phIRCeTitle: Apple, Playing Catchup With Zune, May Add iPhone FM - The Chart - IT Channel News And Views by CRN and VARBusiness .::. Size~: 68.26 KBOct 18 13:31
schestowitzDiablo-D3: css-naked pages make it look poorerOct 18 13:32
schestowitzComplex layouts are seen as more 'credible', don't ask me whyOct 18 13:32
Diablo-D3no, they're notOct 18 13:32
schestowitzMicrosoft pretends to be ahead because it's brick is also a tunerOct 18 13:33
schestowitzDiablo-D3: I wouldn't want to run BN as just plain textOct 18 13:33
schestowitzI could, but it would harm itOct 18 13:34
Diablo-D3it harms it being ugly as hellOct 18 13:34
trmanco67aab408-0982-4c05-93ce-775c295d7948@h14g2000pri.googlegroups.comOct 18 13:35
schestowitzload average: 5.45, 3.60, 2.38Oct 18 13:35
schestowitzThe issue we have is CPU/RAMOct 18 13:35
schestowitzThere's lot of caching, but sometimes not enoughOct 18 13:35
Diablo-D3schestowitz: then stop using shitty codeOct 18 13:36
schestowitzYou use WP tooOct 18 13:36
trmancohttp://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/msg/cd86a7826da34b07Oct 18 13:36
Diablo-D3yes, and I dont have nearly the problems you doOct 18 13:36
trmancoschestowitz: yes it might beOct 18 13:36
trmancohow much "io wait" do you see on top?Oct 18 13:36
trmancoit's one of the cpu parametersOct 18 13:36
schestowitzEven on cold boot it takes more than 5 minutes for XP to getOct 18 13:37
schestowitzeverything back in shape, ready to be used. Oct 18 13:37
schestowitzWhat else should I do to speed up my XP machine --- a 4-core CPU withOct 18 13:37
schestowitz4GB of RAM ? Oct 18 13:37
schestowitz /uunquoteOct 18 13:37
schestowitzMaybe there's malwareOct 18 13:37
oiaohmOnly 5 mins.Oct 18 13:37
oiaohmThat is not the worse I have seen from windows internal self caused mess.Oct 18 13:37
oiaohmWorse is 32 mins to login.Oct 18 13:38
oiaohmNo malwareOct 18 13:38
schestowitzVista could lead to itOct 18 13:38
schestowitz!google no pay vista boot inquirerOct 18 13:38
phIRCe[1] - Windows 7 does not boot faster - The Inquirer | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1557924/windows-boot-fasterOct 18 13:38
phIRCe[2] - Firms charge employees for vista boot-up times - The Inquirer | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1049682/firms-charge-employees-for-vista-boot-up-timesOct 18 13:38
phIRCe[3] - Windows 7 slower to boot than Vista - Operating Systems - Build ... | http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/News/157809,windows-7-slower-to-boot-than-vista.aspxOct 18 13:38
phIRCe[4] - Employees sue employers for charging Vista boot-up times | http://thenextweb.com/2008/11/21/employees-sue-employers-for-charging-vista-boot-up-times/Oct 18 13:38
oiaohmVista + crashed winsock is fun.Oct 18 13:38
schestowitzThe /second/ oneOct 18 13:38
oiaohmto say the least.Oct 18 13:38
schestowitzSee how long it tookOct 18 13:39
oiaohmWinsock.Oct 18 13:39
schestowitzOnly 2 of the above results match well, BUT...Oct 18 13:39
schestowitzIt's funny how they interactOct 18 13:39
oiaohmOn business network Vista crashed 1.5 hours to login.Oct 18 13:40
schestowitzStory 1: VIsta boots too slow to be paid by bossOct 18 13:40
schestowitzStory 2: VIsta 7 boots even more slowly than VistaOct 18 13:40
schestowitzoiaohm: so if Vista crashes at work you might as well take a lunch break or hit the gym while it boots :-0Oct 18 13:40
schestowitzOn my dual-core it takes just 20 seconds to bootOct 18 13:41
schestowitzLinux 2.6.31Oct 18 13:41
oiaohmwinsock crash schestowitzOct 18 13:43
oiaohmYou have to go to command line to correct.Oct 18 13:43
schestowitzOct 18 13:43
schestowitz[13:43] <oiaohm> winsock crash schestowitzOct 18 13:43
schestowitzIn Soviet Russian, winsock crash YOU!Oct 18 13:43
schestowitz*RussiaOct 18 13:43
oiaohmYou don't have the network after the machine starts afer 1.5 hours.Oct 18 13:43
oiaohmSo you still have to call the admin and reboot the machine before you can do anything.Oct 18 13:44
schestowitzWell, that's not a problem /we/ haveOct 18 13:44
schestowitzMaybe, actually... you do have to cope with itOct 18 13:44
oiaohmInstalling Linux or XP looks good.Oct 18 13:44
schestowitzPeople whose PCs you managedOct 18 13:44
schestowitzoiaohm: more importantly, was the issue addressed in V7?Oct 18 13:44
oiaohmNop.Oct 18 13:45
schestowitzHahahahahaha!Oct 18 13:45
oiaohmWinsock still splats.Oct 18 13:45
schestowitzI look forward to post-release reviewsOct 18 13:45
oiaohmThere is better with ATI drivers.Oct 18 13:45
schestowitzSadly, those who get burned rarely have blogs. They are not technicalOct 18 13:45
oiaohmYou end up with quater screen view at randomOct 18 13:45
oiaohmIe full screen reduced to 1/4 of screen.Oct 18 13:46
oiaohmSomething is shot in windows 7 compositing system too.Oct 18 13:46
schestowitzhttp://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/10/microsoft_cracking_down_on_unauthorized_xbox_360_memory_units.htmlOct 18 13:46
phIRCeTitle: Microsoft blocking unauthorized memory units for Xbox 360 .::. Size~: 43.86 KBOct 18 13:46
schestowitzMicrosoft limits your use of your own h/wOct 18 13:46
schestowitz!google windows 7 ati quarter screen Oct 18 13:47
phIRCe[1] - [Solved] ATI 4870 on 42" Toshiba HDTV @ 1080p Improper Screen Size | http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/270459-33-4870-toshiba-hdtv-1080p-improper-screen-sizeOct 18 13:47
phIRCe[2] - Windows 7 to rescue Nvidia and ATI News - PC Advisor | http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm%3Fnewsid%3D115098%26spotlight%3D84:bOct 18 13:47
phIRCe[3] - Rage3D | http://www.rage3d.com/Oct 18 13:47
phIRCe[4] - ATI Declares Intention to Lead with DirectX 11 - X-bit labs | http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20090422075255_ATI_Declares_Intention_to_Lead_with_DirectX_11.htmlOct 18 13:47
oiaohmNo you are wrong schestowitz.  Sign MS is desperate for money wanting all sales of memory units.Oct 18 13:47
oiaohmhttp://skippyslist.com/2009/09/13/another-it-list/   Something I read time to time for a laugh.Oct 18 13:49
phIRCeTitle: Skippys List  » Blog Archive   » Another IT List .::. Size~: 57.42 KBOct 18 13:49
schestowitzhttp://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3176484Oct 18 13:49
phIRCeTitle: Microsoft Reportedly Using ATI GPU For Next Xbox .::. Size~: 101.46 KBOct 18 13:49
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, I'm gonna do a post about xbox as a rented (not owned) unitOct 18 13:50
schestowitzThey also blocked LinuxOct 18 13:50
schestowitzAfter it was possible to achieve buffer overflowOct 18 13:50
qsheetsDiablo-D3: the worst M$ commercial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zak0wTONc-QOct 18 13:51
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - new Zune commercial .::. Size~: 115.47 KBOct 18 13:51
Diablo-D3ermOct 18 13:51
Diablo-D3Im pretty sure thats not a real ms commercialOct 18 13:52
qsheetsDiablo-D3: it could be... germany maybeOct 18 13:53
trmanco!google lets see how many keywords this can handleOct 18 13:53
phIRCe[1] - Building large keyword lists with Wordtracker's new tool | http://www.wordtracker.com/academy/build-keyword-listsOct 18 13:53
phIRCe[2] - How Many Keywords Should You Target? | http://www.addme.com/newsletters/issue362.htmOct 18 13:53
phIRCe[3] - YTMND - Let's see how many downvotes I can get. | http://whatytmndhates.ytmnd.com/Oct 18 13:53
phIRCe[4] - SEM Bootcamp: How Search Engines See Keywords - Search Engine ... | http://www.searchengineguide.com/jennifer-laycock/sem-bootcamp-how-search-engines-see-keyw.phpOct 18 13:53
qsheetstrmanco: MOAROct 18 13:54
trmancoI think I just had an ideaOct 18 13:54
trmancounderline the user keywords in the search results :-POct 18 13:54
trmanco!google MOAROct 18 13:55
phIRCe[1] - Urban Dictionary: moar | http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3Fterm%3DmoarOct 18 13:55
phIRCe[2] - Moar - Encyclopedia Dramatica | http://encyclopediadramatica.com/MoarOct 18 13:55
phIRCe[3] - LURK MOAR - Encyclopedia Dramatica | http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Lurk_moarOct 18 13:55
phIRCe[4] - MOAR Home Page | http://www.moar-recovery.org/Oct 18 13:55
trmancoA combination of "more" and "roar". Oct 18 13:55
Diablo-D3qsheets: its probably not because it DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSEOct 18 13:55
Diablo-D3even by ms standardsOct 18 13:55
trmancoa so that's what it meansOct 18 13:55
qsheetsDiablo-D3: it fell under the "art" category of zuneOct 18 13:56
schestowitzFinally.Oct 18 13:57
schestowitzTruth in advertisingOct 18 13:57
*Diablo-D3 facepalmsOct 18 13:58
schestowitzhttp://www.pr-inside.com/red-ring-of-death-microsoft-s-r1524385.htmOct 18 13:58
phIRCeTitle: Red Ring of Death - Microsoft's Biggest Xbox 360 Problem Repaired at Home Fast  .::. Size~: 20.06 KBOct 18 13:58
schestowitzI don't even THINK there will be a 'next' xbox... http://news.punchjump.com/article.php?id=8813Oct 18 13:59
phIRCeTitle: Punch Jump :// News - The Bigs 2 PS3, Xbox 360, Wii under $30 in one-day sale - Wii / Xbox 360 / PS3 .::. Size~: 14.95 KBOct 18 13:59
Diablo-D3there will be a next xboxOct 18 14:00
Diablo-D3its called the zune desktopOct 18 14:00
*Diablo-D3 runsOct 18 14:00
*omar__ (n=omar@94.249.7.65) has joined #boycottnovellOct 18 14:00
schestowitzWhat's this nonsense about? Considering the losses and Microsoft's stagnation, these talks make no senseOct 18 14:00
schestowitzDiablo-D3: PinkOct 18 14:00
schestowitzaka Danger Fiasco+WM 6.5 embarrassmentOct 18 14:00
schestowitzMicrosoft think it can mix two turds to make goldOct 18 14:01
schestowitzSame with Yahoo!+Bong [sic]Oct 18 14:01
Diablo-D3erm, it canOct 18 14:01
schestowitzYou can't merge SEsOct 18 14:01
Diablo-D3in fact, they're very good at itOct 18 14:01
schestowitzOnly userbasesOct 18 14:01
schestowitzDiablo-D3: not reallyOct 18 14:01
schestowitz!google stanford atom change Oct 18 14:01
phIRCe[1] - Atomic Physics: Steven Chu Group at Stanford University | http://www.stanford.edu/group/chugroup/amo/interferometry.htmlOct 18 14:01
phIRCe[2] - Physicists get a grip on atoms with laser tweezers, atomic fountains | http://news.stanford.edu/pr/92/920701Arc2142.htmlOct 18 14:01
phIRCe[3] - Theorists reveal path to creating and observing rare atom ... | http://storybank.stanford.edu/stories/theorists-reveal-path-creating-and-observing-rare-atomOct 18 14:01
phIRCe[4] - Phys. Rev. 24, 204 (1924): et al. - 128th Meeting stanford ... | http://link.aps.org/doi/10.1103/PhysRev.24.204Oct 18 14:01
oiaohm!google linux virusesOct 18 14:03
phIRCe[1] - Linux malware - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_malwareOct 18 14:03
phIRCe[2] - The short life and hard times of a Linux virus | http://librenix.com/%3Finode%3D21Oct 18 14:03
phIRCe[3] - Linux Doomed to Virus Plague. (Again.) - Linux Today Blog | http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2009/07/linux-doomed-to.htmlOct 18 14:03
phIRCe[4] - Linux vs. Windows Viruses | http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/188Oct 18 14:03
*chm (n=Chris@188.46.83.205) has joined #boycottnovellOct 18 14:06
*Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@93.102.34.41) has joined #boycottnovellOct 18 14:06
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oiaohmSomething odd is going on Linux news as almost stalled.Oct 18 14:24
trmancowell it's sunday :-POct 18 14:25
trmanco!google linux newsOct 18 14:25
phIRCe[1] - LXer: Linux News | http://lxer.com/Oct 18 14:26
phIRCe[2] - Linux Today - Linux News On Internet Time. | http://www.linuxtoday.com/Oct 18 14:26
phIRCe[3] - LinuxInsider: Linux News & Information from Around the World | http://www.linuxinsider.com/Oct 18 14:26
phIRCe[4] - Linux Online - News for October 18, 2009 | http://www.linux.org/news/Oct 18 14:26
trmanco!google gnu/linux newsOct 18 14:26
phIRCe[1] - Linux Today - Linux News On Internet Time. | http://www.linuxtoday.com/Oct 18 14:26
phIRCe[2] - The Linux Home Page at Linux Online | http://www.linux.org/Oct 18 14:26
phIRCe[3] - Gentoo Linux -- Gentoo Linux News | http://www.gentoo.org/Oct 18 14:26
phIRCe[4] - Welcome to Linux.com: Your Source for All Things Linux | http://www.linux.com/Oct 18 14:26
trmancohttp://www.reddit.com/tb/9v36rOct 18 14:28
phIRCeTitle: Firefox to Microsoft: GTFO via reddit.com .::. Size~: 1.31 KBOct 18 14:28
trmancohahaOct 18 14:28
trmanco"Microsoft: "If you can't make a better product, make the other guy's product as bad as yours""Oct 18 14:29
oiaohmReally Firefox could sue over it.Oct 18 14:29
oiaohmMallous damage.Oct 18 14:30
*omar__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Oct 18 14:30
schestowitzhttp://www.albawaba.com/en/countries/Jordan/255468Oct 18 14:31
phIRCeTitle: albawaba.com  middle east news information::Microsoft Jordan holds Media Workshop on Windows 7 .::. Size~: 50.36 KBOct 18 14:31
schestowitzJust as omar left.Oct 18 14:31
schestowitzoiaohm: not true that Linux news stalledOct 18 14:32
schestowitzAlso, don't judge by _English_ newsOct 18 14:32
oiaohmI must have just had a bad run of sites schestowitzOct 18 14:33
oiaohmJust found a little on Linux devicesOct 18 14:33
schestowitzLinux Devices no longer has its main editorOct 18 14:34
schestowitzHenry KingmanOct 18 14:34
schestowitzgadgetgeekOct 18 14:34
schestowitzAnd same for deviceguru Rick LehrbaumOct 18 14:34
schestowitzeWEEK is Ziff DavisOct 18 14:34
schestowitzThey are bankruptOct 18 14:35
schestowitzMS-Watch died tooOct 18 14:35
schestowitzWriting in 'maintenance mode';Oct 18 14:35
schestowitzI have a great post about V7 comingOct 18 14:35
*fewa (n=fewa@unaffiliated/fewa) has joined #boycottnovellOct 18 14:35
schestowitzI'll be showing how they manufacture hypeOct 18 14:35
schestowitzWith EnderleOct 18 14:35
schestowitzThat guy infiltrates the papersOct 18 14:35
schestowitzThe 'independent' EnderleOct 18 14:36
schestowitzPresident, Founder, Head, and "Principal analyst" of the Enderle 'Group' (one-man operation)Oct 18 14:36
oiaohmhttp://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Wind-Rivers-Vincent-Rerolle/  Nice read on wind river after intel aquirement.Oct 18 14:37
phIRCeTitle: Wind River's Linux chief: I don't wear an Intel badge. - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 67.63 KBOct 18 14:37
*P|scean (n=none@66-191-19-87.dhcp.rsbg.or.charter.com) has joined #boycottnovellOct 18 14:37
schestowitzoiaohm: lots of Linux news goes under "ubuntu" or "Android" http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Desktops-and-Notebooks/Acer-Aspire-One-Netbook-Boots-Both-Android-Windows-XP-640660/Oct 18 14:40
phIRCeTitle: Acer Aspire One Netbook Boots Android, Windows XP .::. Size~: 97.28 KBOct 18 14:40
schestowitzoiaohm: "Linux is absolutely meeting our needs. "Oct 18 14:40
schestowitzFrom Wind River articleOct 18 14:40
oiaohmAnd intel is letting them do there own chip deals.Oct 18 14:40
oiaohmWe are seeing more duel OS machines now.Oct 18 14:41
oiaohmIt might not be the year of the desktop.  It might be the year of the Half and Half.Oct 18 14:41
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Slashdot Technology Story | Firefox Disables Microsoft .NET Addon http://tinyurl.com/yz5g673Oct 18 14:43
phIRCeTitle: Slashdot Technology Story | Firefox Disables Microsoft .NET Addon .::. Size~: 137.83 KBOct 18 14:43
DaemonFCwatch them re-enable it when MS says it is patchedOct 18 14:43
schestowitzhttp://www.mxlogic.com/securitynews/identity-theft/hotmail-passwords-likely-hacked-not-phished-security-researcher-says332.cfmOct 18 14:47
phIRCeTitle: Hotmail passwords likely hacked, not phished, security researcher says | MX Logic .::. Size~: 19.1 KBOct 18 14:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Mudei o refresh interval do choqok para 1 minuto :-P Assim é mais "realtime"Oct 18 14:51
Diablo-D3[09:42:31] <DaemonFC> watch them re-enable it when MS says it is patchedOct 18 14:52
Diablo-D3yes but one thingOct 18 14:52
Diablo-D3you can disable extensions and plugins yourselfOct 18 14:52
Diablo-D3you dont have to uninstall it Oct 18 14:53
schestowitzhttp://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS111061+15-Oct-2009+PRN20091015Oct 18 14:53
schestowitzMeh.Oct 18 14:53
*Diablo-D3 does that to totem, the world's shittiest media playerOct 18 14:53
DaemonFCI disabled Windows presentation Foundation and Windows Live Photo Gallery pluginsOct 18 14:54
DaemonFCright off the batOct 18 14:54
Diablo-D3you know what pisses me off?Oct 18 14:54
DaemonFCI don't want or need them, and I consider them to be in the same class as trojans and spywareOct 18 14:54
Diablo-D3all these specific thingsOct 18 14:54
Diablo-D3instead of just writing shit in javaOct 18 14:55
DaemonFClots of users use Firefox to get away from Internet Explorer vulnerabilities and so Microsoft ports those vulnerabilities to Firefox with a trojan horse "plugin"Oct 18 14:55
DaemonFCMozilla should blacklist all future versions of this shit too until Microsoft pops up a dialog that asks for the user's informed consent to have it installedOct 18 14:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Photoshop #fail http://is.gd/4piEROct 18 14:56
DaemonFCsomeone should sue Microsoft over thisOct 18 14:56
Diablo-D3or dont use firefox in windowsOct 18 14:56
Diablo-D3use it in windowsOct 18 14:56
DaemonFCI'm pretty sure there are anti-spyware laws in the US, at least in some states that Microsoft has violatedOct 18 14:56
DaemonFCfor some reason, Indiana has extremely tough laws against junk faxes and telemarketing calls if you're on the opt out listOct 18 14:57
DaemonFCbut we don't have anti-spam or anti-spyware lawsOct 18 14:58
schestowitzThis stupid: http://www.glgroup.com/News/Microsoft-and-Yahoo--Microhoo-vs-the-DOJ-43927.htmlOct 18 14:58
phIRCeTitle: Microsoft and Yahoo: 'Microhoo' vs the DOJ - GLG News .::. Size~: 32.6 KBOct 18 14:58
schestowitzThey miss the pointOct 18 14:58
DaemonFCDiablo-D3, I sued a telemarketing organization a few years agoOct 18 14:58
DaemonFCthe state fined them $5,000 for calling me and gave me $500 of itOct 18 14:58
DaemonFCI also use the restraining order for sexually offensive mail that the post office has quite often, because the US Supreme Court ruled that you can find any piece of mail sexually offensive and the post office can't refuse to enforce the orderOct 18 14:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] What is The Daily Show with Jon Stewart? http://ur1.ca/duzm #funny #picOct 18 14:59
DaemonFCso I get no junk mail eitherOct 18 15:00
TallkenDiablo-D3: if the plugin it's the one I'm thinking it is, it's installed system-wide and as such you can't disable itOct 18 15:00
DaemonFCTallken, You can remove it totallyOct 18 15:00
DaemonFCMicrosoft listed the files and the registry keys to deleteOct 18 15:00
TallkenDiablo-D3: there was a patch to convert it from a system-wide install to a user installed plugin and then you could disable it/remove itOct 18 15:00
Diablo-D3Tallken: no, you _can_ turn it offOct 18 15:00
TallkenDaemonFC: I meant using the Firefox Add-on managerOct 18 15:00
Diablo-D3use the addons panel in firefoxOct 18 15:00
Diablo-D3click the plugin and click disableOct 18 15:01
TallkenDiablo-D3: and you can uninstall it as well?Oct 18 15:01
Diablo-D3Tallken: you dont need toOct 18 15:01
Diablo-D3once its disabled, firefox does not load itOct 18 15:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] An uplifting drama: The Daily Show with Jon Stewart http://ur1.ca/duzm #funny #picOct 18 15:01
TallkenDiablo-D3: I'm trying to figure out what I was mistaken about. The MS .NET plugin wouldn't allow one of uninstalling or disablingOct 18 15:05
DaemonFCI don't want it on my computerOct 18 15:05
DaemonFCit can easily get re-enabled if you use multiple profiles in FirefoxOct 18 15:05
Tallkensince you're telling me I can disable it, I assume it was uninstalling that wasn't straightforwardOct 18 15:05
DaemonFCor if you use a new profileOct 18 15:05
schestowitzNoisy drek entered Google News: http://live.iencyclopedia.org/2009/10/microsoft-acquires-yahoos.htmlOct 18 15:06
phIRCeTitle: iEncyclopedia: Microsoft Acquires Yahoo! .::. Size~: 184.94 KBOct 18 15:06
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&c2coff=1&q=site:blog.efrontier.com+microsoft&start=10&sa=N http://blog.efrontier.com/insights/2009/08/is-bing-on-a-roll.htmlOct 18 15:06
phIRCeTitle: site:blog.efrontier.com microsoft - Google Search .::. Size~: 23.14 KBOct 18 15:06
phIRCeTitle: Efficient Frontier Insights: Is Bing on a Roll? .::. Size~: 29.87 KBOct 18 15:06
schestowitzI can't quite see if some staff from there comes from Microsoft. I guess not.Oct 18 15:06
DaemonFCI feel much better with it removedOct 18 15:06
oiaohmTallken: uninstalling with the MS .net plugin was not straight forward.Oct 18 15:06
DaemonFCI used to be an MS MVP :POct 18 15:06
schestowitzDaemonFC: agreed, but why use WIndows?Oct 18 15:06
DaemonFCthat's been about 10 yearsOct 18 15:07
oiaohmIt was installed as part of windows update.Oct 18 15:07
schestowitzFWIW, my Firefox still has disabled plugins from 200Oct 18 15:07
schestowitzFWIW, my Firefox still has disabled plugins from 2004Oct 18 15:07
schestowitz*LOL* So we have MVPs here... not just Microsoft employeesOct 18 15:07
schestowitzMVP gone wrong... now uses LinuxOct 18 15:07
schestowitzPirillo uses the Mac a littleOct 18 15:07
DaemonFCschestowitz: It's like getting an undercooked steak every time compared to Linux which is sometimes just right, but sometimes bloody or burntOct 18 15:08
DaemonFCstick to the devil you knowOct 18 15:08
schestowitzWhat did you do to earn the MVP?Oct 18 15:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] anyone else think bethlynn was kinda condecending at times on TLLTS 314?Oct 18 15:09
DaemonFCschestowitz: gaming, directx, multimediaOct 18 15:09
DaemonFCforget what they called the category, but that kind of stuffOct 18 15:10
Tallkenoiaohm: thx for the confirmation :)Oct 18 15:10
DaemonFCat the time I had a pretty fast system, I needed Windows 2000 for it cause I had two processors and Windows 98 had no SMP supportOct 18 15:10
DaemonFCso I was using Windows 2000 since it was alpha/betaOct 18 15:11
DaemonFCI kept Windows 2000 on its own partition for years after XP came outOct 18 15:11
DaemonFCI didn't get rid of it totally til like 2006Oct 18 15:12
DaemonFCI don't know if Linux supported SMP around 1999/2000 though, I seem to remember that it didn't, then when it did, it was awful til around the time 2.6 came outOct 18 15:13
DaemonFCbad SMP support was what kept me off Linux well into the middle of this decadeOct 18 15:13
DaemonFCLinux is surprisingly scalable now so I have no idea what my excuse is nowOct 18 15:14
DaemonFCI seem to remember Microsoft saying that Windows Vista Ultimate and Windows Server 2008 support 128 CPUs/cores, and beating their chest that they've tinkered and managed to get Windows 7/Server 2008 R2 up to 256Oct 18 15:15
DaemonFCI think Linux goes up to 4096 currently so I have no idea what they are bragging aboutOct 18 15:15
DaemonFCschestowitz: Vista SP2 slipped in some undocumented SMP patches I thinkOct 18 15:16
schestowitzYesOct 18 15:16
DaemonFCpre-SP2, it would peg a core before moving to the nextOct 18 15:16
schestowitzI noticed another thingOct 18 15:16
DaemonFCnow it seems to balance the load betterOct 18 15:16
schestowitzThere is a 'maintenance' lump coming to V7Oct 18 15:16
schestowitz"stability" and stuffOct 18 15:16
schestowitzI couldn't see security stuff in thereOct 18 15:17
schestowitzBut it's indicative of bugsOct 18 15:17
schestowitzI find some ugly reviews of V7Oct 18 15:17
schestowitzPost coming tomorrowOct 18 15:17
DaemonFCVista/7 SMP goes way beyond what consumers are using currently, enterprise users see it as a joke thoughOct 18 15:17
DaemonFCcause enterprise users use big iron stuff which goes way beyond even 256 cores that 7 supportsOct 18 15:17
DaemonFCI don't understand why Vista RTM/SP1 were so bad with SMP load balancingOct 18 15:18
DaemonFCWindows 2000 and XP handled it betterOct 18 15:18
DaemonFCSP2 just gives you the 2000/XP style balancing backOct 18 15:18
DaemonFCbefore that I was holding out on XP x64 Professional (Windows 2003)Oct 18 15:19
DaemonFCSP2 was like one of those WTF moments because one reason I was so disgusted with Vista back in 2006 was watching how it balanced a multicore CPUOct 18 15:20
DaemonFCit made no sense to me, because if you have a core that's doing nothing, then you should give it the highest priority task that currently exists, right?Oct 18 15:20
DaemonFCI thought that was basicOct 18 15:21
DaemonFCI always figured, way back to about 1998 that the single CPU system's time was numbered, I figured that they would use multi-socket boards and more CPUs, I wasn't far off I guessOct 18 15:22
schestowitzhttp://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/studies-point-to-growth-in-search-ads-and-at-bing/Oct 18 15:22
phIRCeTitle: OpenDNS .::. Size~: 2 KBOct 18 15:22
schestowitzWhat is this firm? I mentioned it earlierOct 18 15:22
schestowitzTHeir blog is only months oldOct 18 15:23
DaemonFCschestowitz: I gave Bing a try for about 3 daysOct 18 15:23
DaemonFCwas supposed to be a week, but I couldn't stomach it anymoreOct 18 15:23
schestowitzIt's failing nowOct 18 15:23
schestowitzA lot of investment in vainOct 18 15:23
fewahttp://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs149.snc1/5535_1204448880170_1497063847_30585715_274323_n.jpgOct 18 15:23
phIRCeTitle: OpenDNS .::. Size~: 2.01 KBOct 18 15:23
DaemonFCbad results, tampered results, censored resultsOct 18 15:23
schestowitzIt gets no headlines anymoreOct 18 15:23
DaemonFCthe only things I liked were photo and video searchOct 18 15:23
*schestowitz wonder if the majority of MSFT employees still use GoogleOct 18 15:24
DaemonFCthey tried to lump Yahoo in with it to say that it shot up to 10%Oct 18 15:24
DaemonFCthen even that line didn't hold when their combined share dropped to 9% the next month, lolOct 18 15:24
schestowitz10%? NoOct 18 15:24
schestowitzThey only count the USOct 18 15:24
schestowitzIt's convenient to themOct 18 15:25
DaemonFCcombined with Yahoo, that's probably believableOct 18 15:25
DaemonFCbut how much of that is actual Bing.com traffic?Oct 18 15:25
DaemonFCthat's my pointOct 18 15:25
schestowitzGlobally Google is over 90% according to the only source I know of that look at all countriesOct 18 15:25
DaemonFCI'd be surprised if Bing itself is over 2% worldwideOct 18 15:25
schestowitzJust overOct 18 15:25
DaemonFCI mean, reallyOct 18 15:25
schestowitz2.somethingOct 18 15:25
schestowitzMaybe 3%Oct 18 15:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] #Firefox to #Microsoft : GTFO http://imgur.com/8pct5.png #MozillaOct 18 15:26
phIRCeTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/png type .::. Size~: 0 KBOct 18 15:26
DaemonFC2% isn't paying them back for the money they've dumped onto itOct 18 15:26
DaemonFC3% isn't eitherOct 18 15:26
DaemonFCtens of millions in advertising blitz to get 2-3% share is pitifulOct 18 15:26
DaemonFCLycos or AltaVista probably still get that much bordering on bankruptcyOct 18 15:27
DaemonFCThe shareholders need to vote on firing BallmerOct 18 15:28
DaemonFCif the board won't, the shareholders shouldOct 18 15:28
DaemonFCMicrosoft could be turned around, but not by some brutish bastard that's been there for decades and ruined the companyOct 18 15:29
schestowitzhttp://identi.ca/notice/12325440Oct 18 15:30
phIRCeTitle: Ted Haeger (reverendted) 's status on Sunday, 18-Oct-09 13:49:03 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 6.93 KBOct 18 15:30
oiaohmDaemonFC: 4096 is only one limit. 16000 has been tried.  There is allocation problems.Oct 18 15:31
fewaLindsey Ghram voted for rape by government contractorsOct 18 15:31
fewaliterallyOct 18 15:31
fewaalong with 29 other senatorsOct 18 15:32
DaemonFCschestowitz: They need to appoint a CEO that drops this patent nonsense against free software and is honestly willing to work with FOSSOct 18 15:32
DaemonFCBallmer just doesn't accept the reality that they can coexistOct 18 15:32
trmancoCOPYRIGHTOct 18 15:32
trmanco       This manual page Copyright 2002, Rusty Russell, IBM Corporation.Oct 18 15:32
trmancoNAMEOct 18 15:32
DaemonFChe wants to coexist while he's pumping Novell and trying to ruin LinuxOct 18 15:32
trmanco       lsmod - program to show the status of modules in the Linux KernelOct 18 15:32
schestowitzThey can coexist?Oct 18 15:32
schestowitzNot in shareholders' intrestOct 18 15:33
DaemonFCschestowitz: Of course they couldOct 18 15:33
schestowitzThey would need to go through what Sun went throughOct 18 15:33
schestowitzNot easy!Oct 18 15:33
DaemonFCschestowitz: It's not impossibleOct 18 15:33
DaemonFCMicrosoft needs to realize that the more they insist on a limited development team with huge payroll, the further behind they'll getOct 18 15:34
DaemonFCthey're really cutting off their nose to spite their faceOct 18 15:34
oiaohmLinux is only warming up.Oct 18 15:34
*Danielsaan (n=dan@87.115.158.74) has joined #boycottnovellOct 18 15:34
oiaohmSamba with ADS will do MS a lot of harm.Oct 18 15:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @scientes An uplifting drama: The Daily Show with Jon Stewart http://ur1.ca/duzmOct 18 15:35
DaemonFCgetting behind technologically and having your best paying customers abandon you is worse for shareholders than trying to revamp the companyOct 18 15:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #Firefox to #Microsoft : just fuck off http://imgur.com/8pct5.png HT @scientesOct 18 15:36
phIRCeTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/png type .::. Size~: 0 KBOct 18 15:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @picturecool Mimes Can Make Anything Disturbing http://bit.ly/LX1unOct 18 15:38
phIRCeTitle: WTF Pictures and WTF videos by Picture Is Unrelated » Mimes Can Make Anything Disturbing .::. Size~: 28.59 KBOct 18 15:38
schestowitzhttp://www.pcworld.com/article/173463/arm_uses_laptops_to_protect_mobile_phone_turf_from_intel.htmlOct 18 15:40
phIRCeTitle: Arm Uses Laptops to Protect Mobile Phone Turf From Intel - PC World .::. Size~: 65.77 KBOct 18 15:40
schestowitzoiaohm: ^^Oct 18 15:41
trmancohttp://www.x.org/releases/X11R7.5-RC1/Oct 18 15:41
phIRCeTitle: X11R7.5 - X Window System Version 11 Release 7.5 .::. Size~: 1.1 KBOct 18 15:41
fewahttp://www.alternet.org/blogs/healthwellness/143164/30_gop_senators_vote_to_defend_gang_rape/Oct 18 15:42
phIRCeTitle: 30 GOP Senators Vote to Defend Gang Rape | Health and Wellness | AlterNet .::. Size~: 94.37 KBOct 18 15:42
fewaThis is our governmentOct 18 15:42
oiaohmArm does not want intel on there turf.Oct 18 15:43
oiaohmtrmanco: they missed a feature.  Support for vga arbitor in 7.5 that comes into effect with Linux kernel 2.6.32 so allowing multiable vesa cards or other interp using at once.Oct 18 15:45
trmancomaybe they will implement itOct 18 15:46
trmancothey still have timeOct 18 15:46
oiaohmIts already in.Oct 18 15:46
oiaohmI was meaning they missed listing a feature.Oct 18 15:46
DaemonFCLinux has problems with newish hardware and motherboardsOct 18 15:47
DaemonFCI'm not really in a hurry to experience that againOct 18 15:47
DaemonFCI'll probably wait til 2.6.32 or .33 to try out a Linux distro on hereOct 18 15:48
fewaLinux bugs get fixed quicklyOct 18 15:48
oiaohmhttp://www.x.org/wiki/Server17Branch  its mentioned deep inOct 18 15:48
DaemonFCit didn't support the fan control at all on my G33M-S, ever. Luckily the BIOS could manage that if you told it the OS couldn'tOct 18 15:48
phIRCeTitle: X.Org Wiki - Server17Branch .::. Size~: 24.01 KBOct 18 15:48
fewayou just ahve to report themOct 18 15:48
DaemonFCthat ACPI bug in the BIOS was also annoyingOct 18 15:49
DaemonFCthat got fixed by Foxconn and in the Linux kernelOct 18 15:49
DaemonFCso all users affected should be fineOct 18 15:49
fewaseriously if you report and give good information you will get a patch today or tomarrowOct 18 15:49
oiaohmLinux kernel can load custom ACPI tables if required DaemonFCOct 18 15:49
fewa<DaemonFC> that got fixed by Foxconn and in the Linux kernelOct 18 15:49
oiaohmThat is how I coped with those foxconn boards.Oct 18 15:49
fewano it didn't Oct 18 15:49
DaemonFCRed Hat implemented the workaround in the Linux kernelOct 18 15:49
fewait got fixed by Linux, foxconn did not change their sabatogueOct 18 15:50
oiaohmNo they did not DaemonFCOct 18 15:50
DaemonFCFoxconn patched the BIOSes in their boardsOct 18 15:50
fewaLinux now pretend it is windowsOct 18 15:50
fewato ACPIOct 18 15:50
DaemonFCfewa, Yes they didOct 18 15:50
fewaso foxconn wont lie to itOct 18 15:50
DaemonFCthe patched BIOS is still availableOct 18 15:50
oiaohmAll they did was add a if this is fox conn load a replacement acpi table DaemonFCOct 18 15:50
DaemonFCand it fixes the problem even on old kernelsOct 18 15:50
fewago look at the Linux ACPI guideOct 18 15:50
fewafoxconn didn't do shitOct 18 15:50
DaemonFCfewa, Yes they didOct 18 15:50
fewaand it was their faultOct 18 15:50
fewathey sabatogued LinuxOct 18 15:50
oiaohmNote ACPI table loading from disk or else where is a standard Linux kernel feature DaemonFCOct 18 15:50
DaemonFCI tested the patch before they released itOct 18 15:50
oiaohmAll you need is the replacement ACPI table.Oct 18 15:51
DaemonFCfewa, First they were rude, then they were argumentative, then they fixed itOct 18 15:51
oiaohmLinux does not require bios flashing to fix ACPI problem.Oct 18 15:51
fewaFoxconn boards check for Linux, and they give a purposefully bad tableOct 18 15:51
oiaohmNo fewaOct 18 15:51
oiaohmNot a issue.Oct 18 15:51
oiaohmLinux kernel does not use the Linux table.Oct 18 15:52
fewaoiaohm, but it is what they doOct 18 15:52
oiaohmIt uses the windows table.Oct 18 15:52
fewait was this bug that made them changeOct 18 15:52
fewaoiaohm, Oct 18 15:52
oiaohmFoxconn boards were also broken for windows.Oct 18 15:52
fewabecause Microsoft likes to break the law through hardware manufacturesOct 18 15:52
oiaohmBecause the windows table that Linux was using and windows was stuffed.Oct 18 15:52
fewaoiaohm, no, you have to read itOct 18 15:52
oiaohmThe Linux table in acpi has not been used by Linux since late 2.4 Linux kernel.Oct 18 15:52
fewahttp://ubuntu-virginia.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=869249Oct 18 15:53
phIRCeTitle: OpenDNS .::. Size~: 2.03 KBOct 18 15:53
oiaohmBecause bios makers were not updating it.Oct 18 15:53
oiaohmand to get access to more modern bois features Linux kernel was forced to use the Windows tables.Oct 18 15:53
oiaohmLinux ACPI guys are pushing for a completely different table.Oct 18 15:54
oiaohmOne that list features not OS's.Oct 18 15:54
DaemonFCalso because the Windows ACPI support is much more stable than what Linux could guaranteeOct 18 15:54
oiaohmNo DaemonFCOct 18 15:54
DaemonFCLinux doesn't guarantee any stable interfacesOct 18 15:54
fewaoiaohm, yes its a 2000 modelOct 18 15:54
fewaas in year 2000Oct 18 15:55
oiaohmdsdt.dsl  6379:             Acquire (MUTE, 0x03E8)  These were the issue fewaOct 18 15:55
oiaohmNot the wrong pointer on Linux.Oct 18 15:56
fewahmmmOct 18 15:56
oiaohmturns out they crash windows as well just not as often.Oct 18 15:56
schestowitzoiaohm: http://blogs.computerworld.com/14910/cisco_buys_starent_networks any comments?Oct 18 15:56
phIRCeTitle: Cisco buys Starent Networks - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 124.8 KBOct 18 15:56
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oiaohmO boy schestowitz that almost gives cisco every type of device.Oct 18 15:58
Diablo-D3who caresOct 18 15:58
Diablo-D3cisco is crap and will always be crapOct 18 15:59
trmancocrap uh?Oct 18 15:59
oiaohmDaemonFC: MS locks features to particular windows versions.  Does not make the ACPI any more stable.   If you bios dies not provide the ACPI features a windows OS needs the OS can miss behave badly.Oct 18 16:00
oiaohmDaemonFC: Linux guys want the OS to be able to request motherboard for features and then use the ones the OS support.  So allowing systems to be updated to support more features so getting better use of hardware without needing to flash each time.Oct 18 16:01
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oiaohmYou are aware that the foxconn issue was caused by the defective MS ACPI test suite made by MS.  DaemonFCOct 18 16:06
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DaemonFCwouldn't surprise meOct 18 16:10
fewayes its a huge jumpOct 18 16:10
fewaits how every other hardware and software thing worksOct 18 16:10
fewathat is at all complicatedOct 18 16:10
DaemonFCone of the big reasons I went for ATI video card this time was cause installing the Nvidia driver on Linux is a pain in the assOct 18 16:10
DaemonFCand you have to reinstall it every time there's a new kernel or a new x.orgOct 18 16:10
DaemonFCprobably the only reason I didn't really like compiling my own kernelOct 18 16:11
cubezzzno one is forcing you to reinstallOct 18 16:12
cubezzzI'm not going to even put 2.6 on some stuffOct 18 16:13
cubezzzanything old, no pointOct 18 16:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Retro Yakking: ReCaptcha Gold: coming soon to Freeview http://is.gd/4pnYw HT @hindleyiteOct 18 16:25
phIRCeTitle: Sunday silliness: ReCaptcha Gold: coming soon to Freeview - Retro Yakking .::. Size~: 44.63 KBOct 18 16:25
schestowitzCompanies don't see value in touchscreens: http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/173526/hp_tries_to_find_business_use_for_touchscreen_pcs.htmlOct 18 16:25
phIRCeTitle: HP Tries to Find Business Use for Touchscreen PCs - Business Center - PC World .::. Size~: 44.8 KBOct 18 16:25
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cubezzztouchscreens have been around for a whileOct 18 16:27
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cubezzzI remember some companies using them in the 80'sOct 18 16:28
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DaemonFCI need to look up some Oblivion cheatsOct 18 16:39
DaemonFCI already beat it on my XBOX 360, I just want to beef up to go explore the expansionsOct 18 16:40
DaemonFCthe game is beautiful, but the first release was so damned buggyOct 18 16:40
DaemonFChalf the time it would freeze or garble your last save or something that you needed to complete a quest wouldn't spawnOct 18 16:41
DaemonFCI just want to make my new character about as tough as the one that beat the main quest on my 360Oct 18 16:42
DaemonFCI don't really want to play through 100 hours of stuff I already beatOct 18 16:43
schestowitzDaemonFC: question:Oct 18 16:49
DaemonFCyes?Oct 18 16:49
schestowitzHave you ever, as a Microsoft MVP, attempted to make Linux users look bad?Oct 18 16:49
schestowitz[With or without the coating of "I'm a Linux user"]Oct 18 16:49
DaemonFCthat only lasted a couple of years (the MVP thing) and noOct 18 16:49
schestowitz.Oct 18 16:50
schestowitz[16:28] <cubezzz> I remember some companies using them in the 80'sOct 18 16:50
schestowitzYes, HPOct 18 16:50
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schestowitzIt's 80s technologyOct 18 16:50
schestowitzWas around when I was a baby :-)(Oct 18 16:50
schestowitzMicrosoft goes back to 1984 for 'selling points'Oct 18 16:50
schestowitzI have a long post coming about V7. It's patheticOct 18 16:50
schestowitzIf Vista was "reasonable" to some, so will Vista 7Oct 18 16:51
schestowitzBut to most people it's the same driver/compat issues all over againOct 18 16:51
DaemonFCschestowitz: At that point, Linux wasn't really on the radar anywayOct 18 16:51
schestowitzMore reports say it boots slowlyOct 18 16:51
schestowitzDaemonFC: on server it wasOct 18 16:51
schestowitzKDE2 was not too impressiveOct 18 16:51
DaemonFCwell, certainly not for home users at that pointOct 18 16:52
schestowitzBut now Microsoft sees comparatively attractive envs like kde4Oct 18 16:52
DaemonFCmost 3d accelerators at the time didn't even support OpenGLOct 18 16:52
schestowitzkde folks should be smart enough to keep the 'olive [mono] branch' out of the brothOct 18 16:52
DaemonFCit was either Glide or DirectXOct 18 16:52
schestowitzI remember GlideOct 18 16:52
DaemonFCyeah, Linux had no support for my 3dfx Voodoo cards at allOct 18 16:53
schestowitzhttp://ibtimes.com.au/articles/20091012/microsoft-google.htmOct 18 16:53
phIRCeTitle: Microsoft Feeling The Android Heat - International Business Times .::. Size~: 65.77 KBOct 18 16:53
DaemonFCso I really didn't even use it alotOct 18 16:53
DaemonFCmostly on my old Windows 95 PCOct 18 16:53
schestowitzOEM awareness for Linux improvedOct 18 16:53
schestowitzThey choose the right componentsOct 18 16:53
schestowitzIn turn, manufacturers add Linux compt to sell it to OEMsOct 18 16:53
schestowitzBad karma for OEMs come from bad Linux compat. Bad PROct 18 16:54
DaemonFCthere's no reason to go out of their way to keep it from running unless they've been boughtOct 18 16:54
schestowitzSee Foxconn for detailsOct 18 16:54
schestowitzBTWOct 18 16:54
DaemonFCI think most hardware/Linux glitches are due to stupidity or a bad driverOct 18 16:54
schestowitzYou upset Linux peopleOct 18 16:54
schestowitzWhen 'exposing' FoxconnOct 18 16:54
schestowitzGarret was pissed off IIRCOct 18 16:54
DaemonFCschestowitz: Truth be told, it wasn't just messing up LinuxOct 18 16:54
DaemonFCit really was screwing over XP sometimes tooOct 18 16:55
schestowitzOKOct 18 16:55
DaemonFCmaybe 1 out of every 30-40 times I had it sleep and resumeOct 18 16:55
DaemonFCit always got Linux thoughOct 18 16:55
DaemonFCso I don't know how complicit they were, it was an embarassment thoughOct 18 16:55
DaemonFCI think they fixed it so they wouldn't take the black eye for shoddy hardwareOct 18 16:56
DaemonFCat least, I think it was the same issue causing XP to not wake up sometimesOct 18 16:56
DaemonFCtheir BIOS was pretty lulzyOct 18 16:56
fewathe kernel developers fixed my motherboard so it suspends correctlyOct 18 16:56
fewa*fixed linuxOct 18 16:56
fewawhile I'm sure i would never get a non-working sound card working on windowsOct 18 16:57
DaemonFCfewa, Most sound cards work fine on Windows or Linux out of the box nowOct 18 16:57
fewanot on windowsOct 18 16:57
DaemonFCXP was really the last version of Windows where nothing worked right out of the boxOct 18 16:57
fewavista broke a ton of hardwareOct 18 16:57
DaemonFCVista at least gives you sound, networking, and usually accelerated videoOct 18 16:58
fewavista doesn't work with either the motherboard sound or my sound cardOct 18 16:58
DaemonFCI'd rather have to re-install Vista than XPOct 18 16:58
fewaits a POSOct 18 16:58
fewaDaemonFC, id rather install LinuxOct 18 16:58
fewacause when you install it it is good to goOct 18 16:58
fewaI don't feel like i have to make it my job to make my computer usableOct 18 16:59
DaemonFCthe last time I actually trashed a copy of Windows was XPOct 18 16:59
DaemonFCon Service Pack 1Oct 18 16:59
fewaif you install Linux it is immidiately usableOct 18 16:59
DaemonFCI just don't do the stupid stuff that people tend to do I guessOct 18 16:59
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fewalike using windows?Oct 18 17:00
DaemonFCmeh, it's alright sometimesOct 18 17:00
DaemonFCI was mostly on XP x64 (Windows 2003) til Vista SP2Oct 18 17:01
DaemonFCcause of the SMP balancing issuesOct 18 17:01
DaemonFCI'll never know why Vista did that, or why they silently fixed itOct 18 17:01
DaemonFCit totally destroyed the performance of multithreaded applicationsOct 18 17:04
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schestowitzOmar87: I have s/t to show youOct 18 17:07
schestowitzBut I've got to runOct 18 17:07
schestowitzMicrosoft Jordan holds Media Workshop on Windows 7 http://www.albawaba.com/en/countries/Jordan/255468Oct 18 17:07
phIRCeTitle: albawaba.com  middle east news information::Microsoft Jordan holds Media Workshop on Windows 7 .::. Size~: 50.39 KBOct 18 17:07
Omar87schestowitz, hiOct 18 17:07
schestowitzI'm off to a content now... gonna try to benchpress 165kgOct 18 17:07
Omar87schestowitz, yeah, I know. :)Oct 18 17:07
schestowitzbblOct 18 17:07
Omar87schestowitz, tytOct 18 17:07
DaemonFCschestowitz: Planning to comment on the episode of Family Guy Microsoft bought to advertise Windows 7?Oct 18 17:08
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schestowitzDaemonFC: yesOct 18 17:10
schestowitzI have it draftedOct 18 17:10
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DaemonFCwell, Gens is abandonwareOct 18 17:31
DaemonFCunfortunateOct 18 17:31
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fewaFOSS doesn't have that problemOct 18 17:36
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Omar87hi all.Oct 18 18:17
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trmancohttp://blog.backblaze.com/2009/09/01/petabytes-on-a-budget-how-to-build-cheap-cloud-storage/Oct 18 18:21
trmancothis runs debianOct 18 18:21
phIRCeTitle: Petabytes on a budget: How to build cheap cloud storage | Backblaze Blog .::. Size~: 36.85 KBOct 18 18:21
DaemonFCfewa, Gens is GPLv2Oct 18 18:22
DaemonFCand it is abandonwareOct 18 18:22
DaemonFCthat's what happens when only one or two people were maintaining somethingOct 18 18:22
fewathen pick it upOct 18 18:23
fewaanyone can pick it upOct 18 18:23
fewaif you need it you can fix it to make it work for what you need, and nowOct 18 18:23
fewaim sure the authors would love to be hired as wellOct 18 18:23
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Janta time!Oct 18 18:48
*jono has quit ("Ex-Chat")Oct 18 18:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] RT @andysc for all the people whove been asking about how my twittering house *really* works - all will be revealed next sunday at @oggcamp!Oct 18 18:52
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Really should have stayed away from the computer before watching the F1 I recorded. Spoilers everywhere.Oct 18 19:25
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trmancohttp://mashable.com/2009/10/18/credit-scores-email/Oct 18 19:31
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schestowitzI lost the contestOct 18 19:42
schestowitzOne guy benchpressed 180kg (400lb)Oct 18 19:42
trmancohttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/16/AR2009101600707_2.html?sid=ST20091016Oct 18 20:01
phIRCeTitle: Rob Pegoraro - Windows 7 Could Wash Away Vista Aftertaste -- or Most of It - washingtonpost.com .::. Size~: 102.97 KBOct 18 20:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] My kids find the standard Boxee screensaver to be a bit scary. massive slowly zooming monkey head iconsOct 18 20:09
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schestowitztrmanco: anything special about it?Oct 18 20:29
trmancono reallyOct 18 20:29
schestowitzI was more curious to find the ENderle-loaded (quoted) pieced that boost V7Oct 18 20:29
schestowitzI find some real poisonOct 18 20:29
schestowitzThe PR agencies still work behind the scenes to get good coverageOct 18 20:30
schestowitztrmanco: the guy who did 180kg is Portuguese btwOct 18 20:31
schestowitzMJ Foley became PR puppet: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=4262Oct 18 20:32
schestowitzhttp://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-linux-10th-anniversary/index.htmlOct 18 20:36
phIRCeTitle: IBM developerWorks : 10 important Linux developments everyone should know about .::. Size~: 49.93 KBOct 18 20:36
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schestowitz:-) shameless self-promotion from twit: "We did an interview with Steve Coast (founder of OpenStreetMap) for FLOSS Weekly episode 81 (http://twit.tv/floss81). Check it out!" http://www.webmonkey.com/blog/OpenStreetMaps_Project_Takes_Maps_in_a_Different_DirectionOct 18 20:40
phIRCeTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KBOct 18 20:40
phIRCeTitle: OpenStreetMaps Project Takes Maps in a Different Direction - Webmonkey .::. Size~: 115.41 KBOct 18 20:40
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sebsebseb Oct 18 20:41
schestowitzhttp://olpc-france.org/blog/2009/04/ooo4kids-openoffice-for-kids-on-the-xo/Oct 18 20:41
schestowitz Oct 18 20:41
schestowitzsebsebseb: .Oct 18 20:41
phIRCeTitle:   OOo4Kids (OpenOffice for Kids) on the XO | OLPC France .::. Size~: 23.91 KBOct 18 20:42
sebsebsebschestowitz: :DOct 18 20:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Who said XO is underpowered? http://ping.fm/LiZetOct 18 20:46
phIRCeTitle: Google Wave running in Sugar Browse Activity on the OLPC XO-1 on Flickr - Photo Sharing! .::. Size~: 50.39 KBOct 18 20:46
schestowitz▀█▀ █▬█ █ ▄▄█▀▀   is sorta sillyOct 18 20:46
schestowitzHey! we made the Atlantic... for stupidity. :-( http://www.theatlanticwire.com/features/view/feature/Virtually-Nude-203Oct 18 20:47
phIRCeTitle: Virtually Nude | The Atlantic Wire .::. Size~: 41.84 KBOct 18 20:48
trmancololOct 18 20:49
trmancolet me do a testOct 18 20:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ▀█▀ █▬█ █ ▄▄█▀▀Oct 18 20:51
schestowitzhttp://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6666735.htmlOct 18 20:51
phIRCeTitle: Judge once called 'real governor of Texas dies at 89 | Houston & Texas News |  Chron.com - Houston Chronicle .::. Size~: 50.01 KBOct 18 20:51
trmancolooolOct 18 20:51
trmancoit worksOct 18 20:51
schestowitzWhere in the UK are the ARMs? http://blogs.computerworld.com/14896/arming_desktop_linuxOct 18 20:52
phIRCeTitle: ARMing desktop Linux - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 131.03 KBOct 18 20:52
schestowitz▓Oct 18 20:54
schestowitzhttp://www.alanwood.net/unicode/block_elements.htmlOct 18 20:54
phIRCeTitle: Block Elements  Test for Unicode support in Web browsers .::. Size~: 13.35 KBOct 18 20:54
schestowitz:-▜Oct 18 20:55
schestowitzhttp://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2354201,00.aspOct 18 20:58
phIRCeTitle: New 'Wi-Fi Direct' Spec Revamps Device Networks - Reviews by PC Magazine .::. Size~: 88.37 KBOct 18 20:58
schestowitzWhy Acer does some WIndows: "It can be booted in either Android or Windows XP Home, according to the sales data on Amazon.com. Acer executives said the main reason the company decided to make the Aspire One with Android a dual-boot netbook was so people can use Microsoft's Internet Explorer Web browser. Many Web sites say they are optimized for IE, said Wong."Oct 18 20:58
schestowitzhttp://www.pcworld.com/article/173648/acer_debuts_liquid_android_smartphone_new_netbook.htmlOct 18 20:58
phIRCeTitle: Acer Debuts Liquid Android Smartphone, New Netbook - PC World .::. Size~: 66.73 KBOct 18 20:58
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MinceRyeah, with the help of vista7, they've discovered ad-hoc modeOct 18 21:03
MinceRyay for themOct 18 21:03
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seller_liarI was thinking....Oct 18 21:06
seller_liarIs it possible which google have some association with freemasonry?Oct 18 21:07
seller_liarBecause a corporation controlling the web is very dangerousOct 18 21:07
schestowitzhttp://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2009/10/shepard-fairey-admits-to-wrongdoing-in-associated-press-lawsuit.htmlOct 18 21:07
JPerlowI think its possible you've been ingesting too many psychotropic compounds.Oct 18 21:07
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schestowitzseller_liar: don't know about the "freemasonic" theories and stuff like that (usually comes from nutters), but for Google to control this data is good for the USOct 18 21:09
seller_liarJPerlow: hahaOct 18 21:09
schestowitzThis is why Europe is now producing rivals to GOogle's control of some digital booksOct 18 21:09
seller_liarSee illuminati , It's a good documentaryOct 18 21:09
seller_liarThe web is descentralised by natureOct 18 21:10
schestowitzI like how Google makes lots of things available for free, but control through access can become dangerous cause then they can decide what to censor or put down among prioritiesOct 18 21:10
schestowitzMicrosoft tried this with Bong [sic] searchOct 18 21:10
seller_liarif a corporation controls all ISps and web services , is a lot easy to control the internetOct 18 21:10
schestowitzseller_liar: Illuminati is nonsenseOct 18 21:10
seller_liarmicrosoft have association with  "the morgan" I thinkOct 18 21:10
schestowitzHehe. JP?Oct 18 21:11
schestowitz:-pOct 18 21:11
schestowitzhttp://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/10/final-ooxml-update-part-ii.htmlOct 18 21:11
phIRCeTitle: An Antic Disposition: The Final OOXML Update: Part II .::. Size~: 44.11 KBOct 18 21:11
schestowitzhttp://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6879420.eceOct 18 21:11
schestowitz"WHEN Steve Ballmer, the head of Microsoft, visited Paris earlier this month to open a new French headquarters, he agreed to hold only three private meetings."Oct 18 21:12
phIRCeTitle:  Daddy Sarkozy defends rise of his &lsquo;Prince Jean&rsquo; - Times Online  .::. Size~: 109.78 KBOct 18 21:12
schestowitzhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/08/nicolas-sarkozy-french-pr_n_313723.htmlOct 18 21:12
phIRCeTitle: Nicolas Sarkozy: French President Accused Of Pirating 400 DVDs .::. Size~: 136.61 KBOct 18 21:12
schestowitzSarko got caught with Microsoft exec/s in their boatOct 18 21:12
seller_liarMicrosoft is more dangerous than google ,because of association with the morgans and maybe rockfellersOct 18 21:12
fewaApple is dangerousOct 18 21:14
seller_liarfewa:why?  I think apple is not more dangerous than microsoftOct 18 21:15
schestowitzIBM corruption: http://www.sec.gov/news/press/2009/2009-221.htmOct 18 21:16
schestowitzMaybe JPerlow can comment :-)Oct 18 21:16
schestowitzPalmisano's likely heir a criminal?Oct 18 21:16
JPerlowschestowitz: not only do I have no comment on it but it has no bearing on what I do for a living or what I write about.Oct 18 21:16
schestowitzFWIW,  Microsoft did it tooOct 18 21:16
schestowitzMaybe it has more friends at the SECOct 18 21:16
fewaApple <3 DRMOct 18 21:16
seller_liarfewa: yes, but apple is a bit smaller than microsoft Oct 18 21:17
schestowitzseller_liar: I don't think Microsoft is in touch with rockfellersOct 18 21:17
schestowitzOr Rothschilds evenOct 18 21:17
fewaseller_liar, Apple has managed to get people to pay for encrypted audioOct 18 21:17
schestowitzBut the Gateses go to Bilderberg... Craig Mundie alsoOct 18 21:17
fewaaudio that only works if they let Apple control their computersOct 18 21:17
seller_liarschestowitz: where these conferences occur?Oct 18 21:18
schestowitzfewa: does that also apply to the hospital Jobs went to?Oct 18 21:18
schestowitzseller_liar: I think this year's is in AthensOct 18 21:18
seller_liarfewa: there's a way to destroy apple . boycott appleOct 18 21:18
schestowitzI can look it upOct 18 21:18
fewayou dont see, Apple is cultural productionOct 18 21:18
schestowitzs/ural//Oct 18 21:19
seller_liarfewa: dont produce free software for macintosh Oct 18 21:19
fewaits less susceptible to market forcesOct 18 21:19
seller_liarfewa: don t buy apple productsOct 18 21:19
fewa<seller_liar> fewa: dont produce free software for macintosh Oct 18 21:19
fewaApple can use free software if they wantOct 18 21:19
fewaof course they must obey the rulesOct 18 21:19
seller_liarfewa: don t visit sites promoting appleOct 18 21:19
fewathey ship bash for exampleOct 18 21:19
schestowitzcupsOct 18 21:19
fewathey pay for cupsOct 18 21:20
fewaand get special licencing on itOct 18 21:20
seller_liarfewa: yes, but there are a lot of deves which produces free software for macintoshOct 18 21:20
seller_liarhandbrake is a exampleOct 18 21:20
fewabut that  is actually really goodOct 18 21:20
fewacups is pretty sweetOct 18 21:20
seller_liarfewa: I don t knowOct 18 21:20
fewathe problem is that if Apple gains strength they are liable to become more agressiveOct 18 21:20
fewaand they are positioned better for having a harmful effect, IMHOOct 18 21:20
seller_liarfewa: yes, it's a old strategy Oct 18 21:21
seller_liarfewa: more power for more powerOct 18 21:21
fewaThey are actually even more locked down than MicrosoftOct 18 21:21
seller_liarif apple grows, apple is capable to push more and more drm ,more lobbies,more proprietary softwareOct 18 21:21
seller_liarit's like a virusOct 18 21:21
fewatheir OS and hardware/software walled gardensOct 18 21:21
fewasee, they are more dangerous than MicrosoftOct 18 21:21
fewaand they are very destructive to copyright lawOct 18 21:22
fewalook at BlueWikiOct 18 21:22
seller_liarfewa: yes and noOct 18 21:22
fewatheir abuse of DRMOct 18 21:22
fewaand the DMCAOct 18 21:22
seller_liarfewa: apple is not so dangerous because it still small compared with microsoftOct 18 21:22
fewaIt has some key holdingsOct 18 21:22
seller_liarbut iff people insists to buy apple products , we are in hellOct 18 21:22
fewasuch as iPod+iTunes+walled gardenOct 18 21:22
fewathats what Microsoft wantedOct 18 21:22
JPerlowseller: It has a huge share in digital media players and smartphones.Oct 18 21:23
schestowitzhttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB125583082290592413.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories\Oct 18 21:23
schestowitz"The hedge-fund billionaire charged as part of a vast insider-trading case surfaced in an earlier, separate probe into U.S. fundraising by a Sri Lankan terrorist group, people familiar with the probe said...."Oct 18 21:23
fewajust read the halloween documents, Comes v Microsoft, PalladiumOct 18 21:23
phIRCeTitle: Rajaratnam Surfaced in U.S. Terrorism Probe - WSJ.com .::. Size~: 114.18 KBOct 18 21:23
seller_liarin fact , corporations can not  existOct 18 21:23
JPerlowroughly 80 percent market penetration in digital media players.Oct 18 21:23
fewaJPerlow, yepOct 18 21:23
fewaApple is dangerousOct 18 21:23
fewaand people underestimate thatOct 18 21:23
seller_liarfewa: But in desktop and server it has a small participationOct 18 21:24
fewaand while Microsoft certainly is also very harmful, I think people overestimate its long-term threatOct 18 21:24
seller_liarthe strategy is Oct 18 21:24
schestowitzIt's like they don't listen. Just sit their with their ipods :-)Oct 18 21:24
fewaor at least those threat are being better foughtOct 18 21:24
seller_liardon t let apple grow moreOct 18 21:24
JPerlowhowever the digital media player as a dedicated device has a limited lifespanOct 18 21:24
fewaschestowitz, :POct 18 21:24
fewayeah I cant stand those things, its about seperating yourself from TRWOct 18 21:24
JPerlowif the recent actions of wireless carriers are any indication, there will be a large amount of Android adoptionOct 18 21:24
schestowitzGates was like that, fewaOct 18 21:24
schestowitzShouting at him momOct 18 21:25
JPerlowhowever the main problem I have with apple is that their music store and their player software is tied to their productsOct 18 21:25
schestowitzJPerlow: yup :-)Oct 18 21:25
schestowitzAnd they make no s/w for LinuxOct 18 21:25
seller_liarif people don t hear us , we need another strategies Oct 18 21:26
fewaJPerlow, and they abuse the DMCA and the "upgrade" mechanismOct 18 21:26
qsheetsschestowitz: WINEOct 18 21:26
fewato enforce a anti-competitive walled gardenOct 18 21:26
JPerlowso they want to control the device, the distribution channel for content as well as the client softwareOct 18 21:26
schestowitzqsheets: Beer, thanks.Oct 18 21:26
fewaqsheets, they upgrade every weekOct 18 21:26
qsheetsfewa: your point?Oct 18 21:26
JPerlowI wouldnt have nearly as much as a problem if iTunes was opened up to other devices or if the iTunes store API was opened upOct 18 21:26
seller_liarfor example , if your friend use ipod , dont talk with your friend anymoreOct 18 21:26
fewawell, maybe WINE could work, but it shouldn't need WINE.Oct 18 21:26
schestowitzseller_liar: that's pretty extremeOct 18 21:27
fewaIn fact, there were many Linux programs that worked with the iPodOct 18 21:27
fewathen Apple issued a "upgrade" that broke itOct 18 21:27
seller_liarschestowitz: yes, I was kidding hehOct 18 21:27
schestowitz:-)Oct 18 21:27
seller_liarsorryOct 18 21:27
fewaand then sued the wiki that showed how to use your own softwareOct 18 21:27
seller_liarschestowitz: but ,of course there are anoterh strategies Oct 18 21:27
schestowitzGot bad PR and retreatedOct 18 21:27
seller_liarlike , increase taxes for ipod usersOct 18 21:27
fewaThere is an extensive convo from this channel about thisOct 18 21:27
schestowitzseller_liar: DBD has bannersOct 18 21:27
seller_liardont buy used ipodsOct 18 21:27
JPerlowas I explained in an article I wrote recently, iTunes can be a deal breaker for some people where end-users might otherwise be a good adoption target for Linux and other open source OSesOct 18 21:28
schestowitzLike the gal with the hangs hanging on wiresOct 18 21:28
fewawith the MS trollOct 18 21:28
schestowitz s/hangs/handsOct 18 21:28
qsheetshttp://mediakey.dk/~cc/itunes-on-linux-ubuntu/Oct 18 21:28
phIRCeTitle: Mediakey - Open Source, PHP, Java, SEO, Content Management, MySQL, Virtuel Hosting, Joomla, Linux, Internet Marketing .::. Size~: 2.14 KBOct 18 21:28
seller_liardont port free software to ipod Oct 18 21:29
seller_liardont frequent pro apple sites , only in rare cases ,for gain information and factsOct 18 21:29
JPerlowqsheets: I don't see Wine as a viable option for most users of Linux for ItunesOct 18 21:30
fewahere: http://pastebin.com/f6b67111bOct 18 21:30
phIRCeTitle: pastebin - collaborative debugging tool .::. Size~: 42.77 KBOct 18 21:30
seller_liarJPerlow: I think it' better this wayOct 18 21:30
schestowitzPJ re: Building a Scorecard for Open Source "I like the idea, particularly now that Microsoft's Codeplex Foundation has been announced, but I question OSI's ability to properly administer it, judging by past decisions about licenses. I would suggest instead the Software Freedom Law Center, as legal issues are simply certain to arise.]"Oct 18 21:30
seller_liarJPerlow: because Itunes is proprietary with lots of drmOct 18 21:31
schestowitzqsheets: yes, wine is not supportOct 18 21:31
fewadiscussed alot aobut Apple trying to prevent interoperabilityOct 18 21:31
schestowitzANd it doesn't work immaculately, eitherOct 18 21:31
JPerlowI was recently asked to buy iTunes credit for a kid who is having his birthday this month, I bought him Amazon music credit insteadOct 18 21:31
fewaand the lawOct 18 21:31
seller_liaramorok rocksOct 18 21:31
seller_liaramarokOct 18 21:31
schestowitz+1Oct 18 21:32
schestowitzv2 is greatOct 18 21:32
schestowitzNever crashed on meOct 18 21:32
schestowitzI think... maybe it did once.... in like 1000 hours of runningOct 18 21:32
schestowitzfewa: which one?Oct 18 21:33
schestowitzmutex?Oct 18 21:33
schestowitzaka zlgOct 18 21:33
fewawell he was in the discussionOct 18 21:33
fewahttp://www.eff.org/cases/odioworks-v-appleOct 18 21:34
phIRCeTitle: OdioWorks v Apple | Electronic Frontier Foundation .::. Size~: 15.06 KBOct 18 21:34
schestowitzfewa: [Sunday 20 Sep 2009]Oct 18 21:34
fewayes, Apple has dismissed the lawsuit, realizing they would not winOct 18 21:35
seller_liaradobe used dmca against some projects in sourceforgeOct 18 21:35
schestowitzhttp://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/school_law/2009/10/appeals_court_upholds_dismissa.htmlOct 18 21:35
phIRCeTitle: The School Law Blog: Appeals Court Upholds Dismissal of NCLB Suit .::. Size~: 48.06 KBOct 18 21:35
schestowitzseller_liar: several companies didOct 18 21:36
schestowitzIs Google Wave _That_ good? http://lifehacker.com/5381219/google-waves-best-use-casesOct 18 21:36
phIRCeTitle: Google Wave's Best Use Cases - Wave - Lifehacker .::. Size~: 88.2 KBOct 18 21:36
schestowitzWhy do so many people cover this?Oct 18 21:36
schestowitzSeems like it's the "G" logo they get a hardon overOct 18 21:37
JPerlowwell, I wasn't particularly impressed with it.Oct 18 21:37
schestowitzI'm not surprisedOct 18 21:37
fewaschestowitz, yepOct 18 21:37
schestowitzIt's another nice app, but hey.Oct 18 21:37
fewaG-OnOct 18 21:37
fewaits also propritaryOct 18 21:37
schestowitzGoogleSpotOct 18 21:37
schestowitzBlogSpotOct 18 21:37
schestowitzfewa: is it?Oct 18 21:37
schestowitzI thought it was FOSSOct 18 21:37
fewathe web part is Oct 18 21:37
fewanot released yetOct 18 21:38
JPerlowno I think they intend to release the source.Oct 18 21:38
schestowitzSuch that you can set it up on your rigOct 18 21:38
fewathe protocol stuff was releasedOct 18 21:38
JPerlowso you can host your own implementations.Oct 18 21:38
fewabut the web stuff not yetOct 18 21:38
schestowitzNot _yet_Oct 18 21:38
schestowitzI read about itOct 18 21:38
fewathey have also relesaed the protocolOct 18 21:38
seller_liargoogle is not much different than microsoft and othersOct 18 21:38
schestowitzBut it's FOSS-boundOct 18 21:38
seller_liarit 's a corporationOct 18 21:38
schestowitzUnless it's like Chrome or AndroidOct 18 21:38
schestowitzWHere FOSS means "part of it is 'open'..."Oct 18 21:38
seller_liarand every corporations wants to grow more and more ,buying other companies ,crushing opponents and using lobbyOct 18 21:39
fewaschestowitz, and then they sue anyone who tries to fork for copyright infringementOct 18 21:39
schestowitzThe pretence of "no lockin"Oct 18 21:39
JPerlowseller: corporations are the driving force of Open Source and Free Software because they have the money to pay people salaries so they can work on the projects.Oct 18 21:39
schestowitzseller_liar: welcome to politicorporations :-)Oct 18 21:39
fewasmall business is also really into FOSSOct 18 21:39
schestowitzThey swept up many corpses in this latest 'crisis'Oct 18 21:40
schestowitzMeaning corrupt people who took debt for the nation to make themselves richerOct 18 21:40
seller_liarJPerlow: corporations are the wrong model to do businessOct 18 21:40
JPerlowopen source and free software would be unsustainable otherwise.Oct 18 21:40
JPerlowcorporations ARE business.Oct 18 21:40
seller_liardescentralized models are superior Oct 18 21:40
schestowitzAnd also gave bad loans, hoarded bonuses for it, then saw it tumbling, stole public money with more national debt and pocketed the bailout moneyOct 18 21:40
seller_liarp2p ,microkernels are examplesOct 18 21:41
schestowitzJPerlow: noOct 18 21:41
schestowitzBusiness can be your own millOct 18 21:41
schestowitzIt's not a corporationOct 18 21:41
schestowitzI give you bread, you give me clean waterOct 18 21:41
JPerlowyou are making a generalization. Not all corporations are in the game of defrauding the government.Oct 18 21:41
seller_liaropen source can die without help of corporations , but free software notOct 18 21:41
JPerlowa corporation can be of any size.Oct 18 21:41
schestowitzJPerlow: not the less successful oneOct 18 21:42
schestowitzGoevrnment is not separate from them BTWOct 18 21:42
seller_liarthe big problem is , corporations are big companies centralized in one group of people Oct 18 21:42
schestowitzGoevrnment is the entity/shadow cast by corporations upon the publicOct 18 21:42
JPerlowI was once a corporation. In the United States, you can be classified as C-Corp, LLC or Sub Chapter S. All corporations.Oct 18 21:42
JPerlowyou cannot be a business without being a corporation.Oct 18 21:42
schestowitzSo that people blame "government!", not those that fund and build itOct 18 21:42
schestowitzAnd even select the candidate to be elected to serve themOct 18 21:42
seller_liarwe need help of corporations in moment because microsoft have a powerful empireOct 18 21:43
schestowitzThat's not cynicism, it's realityOct 18 21:43
JPerlowoh and I forget, LLP.Oct 18 21:43
seller_liarto destroy a empire we need another empireOct 18 21:43
schestowitzMore so in the US, which is not a democracy and was never intended to be oneOct 18 21:43
schestowitzTHe UK gave up its empire to preserve some democracy. It make a compromiseOct 18 21:43
seller_liarit's not possible to destroy a empire without help of another companiesOct 18 21:43
schestowitzWhen abandoning India for instanceOct 18 21:43
schestowitzTime for the US to do the sameOct 18 21:44
schestowitzTear down those 1000+ military basesOct 18 21:44
schestowitzseller_liar: popular struggles come from awarenessOct 18 21:44
schestowitzNot battles of GoliathsOct 18 21:44
JPerlowyou are making historical allegories which have absolutely nothing to do with the issue of whether corporations fund virtually all Open Source and Free Software development. Oct 18 21:44
seller_liarschestowitz: I don t know , US is completely perverted , there are a lot of war weapons thereOct 18 21:44
qsheetsit's called globalization, get used to itOct 18 21:45
schestowitzWe need many DavidsOct 18 21:45
seller_liarrich people kills everythingOct 18 21:45
seller_liaror another moses Oct 18 21:45
JPerlowthis is typical of the circular and evasive arguments you made on the air with Jono.Oct 18 21:45
schestowitzseller_liar: I have a video for youOct 18 21:45
schestowitzre weaponsOct 18 21:45
seller_liarschestowitz: okOct 18 21:45
seller_liarJPerlow: noOct 18 21:45
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHzG3nTA27MOct 18 21:45
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - Conversations with History: Linus Pauling .::. Size~: 165.86 KBOct 18 21:45
schestowitzI finished watching it last nightOct 18 21:46
schestowitzMust-watch IMHOOct 18 21:46
schestowitzThe US is sadly /still/ the biggest threat to world peace, based on surveys all around the worldOct 18 21:46
schestowitzNot just because of nukesOct 18 21:46
seller_liarschestowitz: But , I believe in illuminatiOct 18 21:47
schestowitzAll countries need to disarm. Maybe send the warhead to orbit around the Sun :-)Oct 18 21:47
JPerlowwhat does corporate sponsorship of Open Source have to do with geopolitcs?Oct 18 21:47
schestowitz*warheadsOct 18 21:47
JPerlowagain, you evade the discussion.Oct 18 21:47
schestowitzSend away the little plutonium and uranium we have hereOct 18 21:47
seller_liarJPerlow: wait a momentOct 18 21:47
seller_liarschestowitz: the big problem is Oct 18 21:47
schestowitzJPerlow: what topic?Oct 18 21:48
schestowitzI'm not evading anything, I don't know what we were on aboutOct 18 21:48
JPerlowlolOct 18 21:48
schestowitzI guess it was about how to avoid AppleOct 18 21:48
seller_liaris very hard for example create a revolution with no warOct 18 21:48
schestowitzAnd how to generally avoid replacing one oligarch with anotherOct 18 21:48
seller_liarbecause US sends CIA and the military Oct 18 21:48
schestowitzLike IBM->MSFT->GOOGOct 18 21:48
schestowitzseller_liar: or coupOct 18 21:49
schestowitzSouth American and central one too had lots of that doneOct 18 21:49
schestowitzThe US has actually appointed some of the most vicious leaders out thereOct 18 21:49
schestowitzEven endorsing them afterwards until they were no longer taking instructions from the Pentagon et alOct 18 21:50
seller_liarschestowitz: south america and all america must study military strategies against USOct 18 21:50
schestowitzNoOct 18 21:50
seller_liarthe problem is people only "shout" and do nothingOct 18 21:50
schestowitzThe USians need to IMHOOct 18 21:50
schestowitzSouth Americans begin to know moreOct 18 21:50
schestowitzBut the folks in the north are indoctrinatdOct 18 21:50
seller_liaryes, because an intercontinental attack is very hardOct 18 21:50
schestowitzThe schools curriculum does not include thatOct 18 21:50
seller_liarapple helps in thisOct 18 21:50
seller_liarapple = brainwash Oct 18 21:51
schestowitzUntil the 60s it was almost forbidden to talk about the scale of the Indian genocideOct 18 21:51
schestowitzseller_liar: Apple is viralOct 18 21:51
schestowitzFans bring fansOct 18 21:51
schestowitzAnd dwell in the "think different" mentalityOct 18 21:51
seller_liarprivate companies like nbc fox and others are liarsOct 18 21:51
schestowitzNoOct 18 21:51
schestowitzJust shillsOct 18 21:51
schestowitzFox is MurdochOct 18 21:51
schestowitzNBS is GE, Microsoft, etc.Oct 18 21:52
schestowitzTHey run for profitOct 18 21:52
schestowitzRemember:Oct 18 21:52
schestowitzProfit, not newsOct 18 21:52
schestowitzNews=fillOct 18 21:52
schestowitzAds=contentOct 18 21:52
seller_liartv series like "the closer" , "CSI"  says good things about US securityOct 18 21:52
schestowitzNews=something to engage viewers b/w commercial breaksOct 18 21:52
schestowitzFill=deliver to shareholdersOct 18 21:52
schestowitzThat's why we have national TV hereOct 18 21:52
schestowitzBut that too got corruptedOct 18 21:52
schestowitzCompanies exploited itOct 18 21:52
seller_liaryes , I know , profit , but people insist to see such channelsOct 18 21:53
schestowitzAcademia tooOct 18 21:53
schestowitzVision=academia to deliver unbiased researchOct 18 21:53
schestowitzReality=university needs to meet goals, reached out to corporationsOct 18 21:53
schestowitz=>students are trained, not taughtOct 18 21:53
seller_liarYes , BBC have some attacks sometimesOct 18 21:54
seller_liarbut BBC have a lot of good work Oct 18 21:54
schestowitz=>professors serve commercial objectives, not learnOct 18 21:54
schestowitzYes, documentariesOct 18 21:54
schestowitzDiscovery alsoOct 18 21:54
seller_liarfor example ,"beyond citizen kane"Oct 18 21:55
schestowitzfewa: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/newsroom/cmlp_clinic_ma-anti-slapp_amicusOct 18 21:55
phIRCeTitle: OpenDNS .::. Size~: 1.99 KBOct 18 21:55
seller_liarthis documentary talks about globo .The bigg est private channel in BrazilOct 18 21:55
seller_liarbut ,sad is forbidden in brazilOct 18 21:55
fewai havnt read it all but i dont think i agreeOct 18 21:55
fewayou have to show that what you were doing is protected free speechOct 18 21:56
fewajust belonging to an organization doesn't cut itOct 18 21:56
fewaits based on a faulty premiseOct 18 21:56
fewathat corporations have rights---they dontOct 18 21:56
seller_liarfewa: every institution with lots of power does not have "laws" becase it controls every sector of societyOct 18 21:57
fewaseller_liar, not reallyOct 18 21:57
seller_liarwe need another model of companyOct 18 21:57
seller_liarbecause corporations is not a good modelOct 18 21:57
fewapeople have rights, not corporationsOct 18 21:58
fewacorporation are based on a tyrannical modelOct 18 21:58
seller_liarmuch power concentration in  one handOct 18 21:58
fewahttp://www.democracynow.org/2009/10/15/slovenian_philosopher_slavoj_zizek_on_theOct 18 21:58
phIRCeTitle: Slovenian Philosopher Slavoj Zizek on Capitalism, Healthcare, Latin American "Populism" and the "Farcical" Financial Crisis .::. Size~: 47.66 KBOct 18 21:58
fewaI think you will like this seller_liar Oct 18 21:58
seller_liargoogle helps to destroy microsoft, but at the same google try to be "another microsoft"Oct 18 21:59
seller_liarbecause of nature of corporationsOct 18 21:59
seller_liarmore power for more power , grow and grow even moreOct 18 21:59
seller_liarforever and everOct 18 21:59
fewawatch the video seller_liar Oct 18 21:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Royal Mail faces legal challenge over plan to recruit 30,000 temp staff http://tinyurl.com/ykhhaymOct 18 22:00
schestowitz[21:55] <seller_liar> but ,sad is forbidden in brazilOct 18 22:00
seller_liarfewa: ok thanks!Oct 18 22:00
schestowitz.sad?Oct 18 22:00
seller_liaryes, because the documentary reveals the bad actions of globoOct 18 22:00
seller_liarglobo is a cruel private companyOct 18 22:00
schestowitzfewa: yes, I was gonna write about corps and "Rights"Oct 18 22:00
schestowitzCorps are not organismsOct 18 22:00
schestowitzThey don't have feelingsOct 18 22:00
schestowitzPeople doOct 18 22:00
fewait comes directly from religionOct 18 22:01
fewaits the failing of organized religionOct 18 22:01
fewafalls into the same morass of thinking the organism is sacrosanctOct 18 22:01
fewawhen its the members that are importantOct 18 22:01
seller_liarglobo is the biggest private channel in brazilOct 18 22:01
seller_liarglobo have strong political powerOct 18 22:01
seller_liarmoney Oct 18 22:01
seller_liarmarketing Oct 18 22:01
seller_liarand try to destroy opponentsOct 18 22:02
seller_liarlike another private channels and small broadcastsOct 18 22:02
schestowitzLike totalitarian regimesOct 18 22:02
fewaand calling the organism sactosanct, be it organized religion, nationalism, or "market" hysteria, is simply a euphamism of speaking for those in controlOct 18 22:02
schestowitzFind dissent early and destroy before it spreadsOct 18 22:02
schestowitzThat's how Microsoft 'protects' the desktopOct 18 22:02
fewaanti-americanOct 18 22:02
fewaanti-christianOct 18 22:02
schestowitzNot by improving, by breakingOct 18 22:02
seller_liar´the sad thing is people dont boycott globoOct 18 22:02
seller_liarglobo must be destroyedOct 18 22:02
*qsheets (n=qsheets@wikimedia/qsheets) has left #boycottnovellOct 18 22:03
seller_liarand other private channels tooOct 18 22:03
schestowitzIt can't :-)Oct 18 22:03
fewablasphemyOct 18 22:03
schestowitzIt's in the veins of Brazil's economyOct 18 22:03
schestowitz"Anti-American". Hehe.Oct 18 22:03
seller_liarschestowitz: yes, but people boycott globo ,globo can be destroyedOct 18 22:03
fewafree speech is the foundation of democracy, you cannot have meaningful democracy without itOct 18 22:03
schestowitz!google Anti-American youtube chomskyOct 18 22:03
phIRCe[1] - YouTube - Noam Chomsky: Rebel Without A Pause | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DDmpn4djKrNIOct 18 22:03
phIRCe[2] - YouTube - Chomsky on American Identity | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DP1qihA8-9PAOct 18 22:03
phIRCe[3] - Faves: YouTube - Chomsky vs Buckley | http://faves.com/users/textured/dot/113259001729Oct 18 22:03
phIRCe[4] - chomsky.info : Audio & Video | http://www.chomsky.info/audionvideo.htmOct 18 22:03
seller_liarbut this is hard, because globo controls soccer transmissionOct 18 22:04
schestowitzSoccer :-)Oct 18 22:04
schestowitzThat's another suppressorOct 18 22:04
schestowitzKeeps people dumb and distractedOct 18 22:04
schestowitzThey learn names of football players rather than members of parliamentOct 18 22:04
seller_liarlike footbal in US or baseballOct 18 22:04
seller_liaror basketballOct 18 22:05
schestowitzSo they talk about which footballer has sex with who rather than which fed bribes who...Oct 18 22:05
schestowitzCelebs and other things that are sold to the public... legalised drugs like alcohol tooOct 18 22:05
fewaand illegalized drugs....Oct 18 22:05
seller_liarJPerlow: We need the help of companies because microsoft invests a lot of money in tecnology and mediaOct 18 22:06
seller_liarJPerlow: and because people does not worry about freedom Oct 18 22:06
schestowitzseller_liar: not just companiesOct 18 22:06
schestowitzAlso nationalist and religious groupsOct 18 22:06
schestowitzIt's complicatedOct 18 22:07
seller_liarschestowitz: I know Oct 18 22:07
seller_liarchristianism make a lot of moneyOct 18 22:07
schestowitz!google carlin he always needs money!Oct 18 22:07
phIRCe[1] - Positive Atheism's Big List of George Carlin Quotations | http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/carlin.htmOct 18 22:07
phIRCe[2] - George Carlin - Celebrity Atheist List | http://www.celebatheists.com/%3Ftitle%3DGeorge_CarlinOct 18 22:07
phIRCe[3] - George Carlin On Religion | http://www.rense.com/general69/obj.htmOct 18 22:07
phIRCe[4] - Positive Atheisms Big List of George Carlin Quotations - StumbleUpon | http://www.stumbleupon.com/urlarchive/10/www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/carlin.htmOct 18 22:07
seller_liarJPerlow: For example ,people likes and iphone instead a openmokoOct 18 22:07
seller_liarJPerlow: OpenMoke is a just system, ethical and free software Oct 18 22:08
seller_liarJPerlow: Iphone have beauty  things ,features , but it's a complete unjust systemOct 18 22:09
seller_liarJPerlow: But the people does not worry about the societyOct 18 22:09
*schestowitz taps JPerlow on the shoulderOct 18 22:10
schestowitzhttp://scienceblogs.com/collectiveimagination/2009/10/james_hall_open_source_softwar.phpOct 18 22:11
phIRCeTitle: James Hall: Open source software in the real world : Collective Imagination .::. Size~: 50.28 KBOct 18 22:11
JPerlowseller: I have no interest in software ethics as defined by Richard Stallman.Oct 18 22:13
schestowitzInnovation: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1558723/intel-sues-amdOct 18 22:13
schestowitzJPerlow: who is Richard Stallman?Oct 18 22:13
seller_liarbsnes , the accurate snes emulator is free software nowOct 18 22:13
JPerlowit is irrelevant to Open Source.Oct 18 22:13
seller_liarhttp://board.byuu.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=265Oct 18 22:13
phIRCeTitle: byuu's message board - View topic - bsnes v0.051 released .::. Size~: 45.89 KBOct 18 22:13
schestowitzWHat is Open Source?Oct 18 22:13
schestowitzEthics are universalOct 18 22:13
schestowitzIt's part of our DNAOct 18 22:13
seller_liarOpen Source likes companies  ,Oct 18 22:13
schestowitzReciprocity/ubuntuOct 18 22:13
seller_liarcompanies are evilOct 18 22:14
seller_liaropen source likes evilOct 18 22:14
JPerlow"Ethics" or "Ethical" as defined by FSF and RMS has no place in my world.Oct 18 22:14
JPerlowzero.Oct 18 22:14
JPerlownone/Oct 18 22:14
JPerlownon existentOct 18 22:14
seller_liarJPerlow: why?Oct 18 22:14
JPerlowbecause it is irrelevant.Oct 18 22:14
schestowitzfewa: http://www.citmedialaw.org/blog/2009/jim-dolan-shows-why-anti-slapp-laws-are-good-and-why-new-york-needs-better-oneOct 18 22:14
phIRCeTitle: Jim Dolan Shows Why Anti-SLAPP Laws Are Good (And Why New York Needs a Better One) | Citizen Media Law Project .::. Size~: 33.83 KBOct 18 22:14
schestowitzJPerlow: what is FSF and RMS? ;-)Oct 18 22:15
fewaanti-SLAPP laws are very goodOct 18 22:15
schestowitzBe specific.Oct 18 22:15
JPerlowschestowitz: he can read my articles like everyone else. :)Oct 18 22:15
schestowitzWhat has no place in your world.Oct 18 22:15
fewai was just criticising a specific fallacyOct 18 22:15
seller_liarEverything needs ethics Oct 18 22:15
schestowitzWhy them, him, and you?Oct 18 22:15
schestowitzThere are no obsolutesOct 18 22:15
schestowitz*AbsolutesOct 18 22:16
schestowitzI'm not an FSF memberOct 18 22:16
fewaJPerlow, so you are a god?Oct 18 22:16
schestowitzI can think for myself, thank youOct 18 22:16
schestowitzWhat is a "God"?Oct 18 22:16
JPerlowseller: I don't agree with what the FSF defines as ethics and in that definition, it has no bearing on Open SourceOct 18 22:16
fewaro do you disagree with RMS's ideas of what is moral and notOct 18 22:16
seller_liarEthics is justiceOct 18 22:16
schestowitzWhere does "God" come from?Oct 18 22:16
seller_liarWe can not pollute the air at cost of low cost productsOct 18 22:16
JPerlowI have no idea where God got into this discussionOct 18 22:16
fewaim just agreeing with seller_liar Oct 18 22:17
seller_liarwe can not kill people at cost of oilOct 18 22:17
fewaeveryone has ethicsOct 18 22:17
schestowitzJPerlow: me neitherOct 18 22:17
schestowitzGod is a mythical creatureOct 18 22:17
schestowitzLike ZeusOct 18 22:17
fewaonly god is above ethicsOct 18 22:17
seller_liarthe big problem is Oct 18 22:17
schestowitzOr those creatures with elephant headOct 18 22:17
schestowitzEvolution never made those AFAW[e]KOct 18 22:17
seller_liaronly a little people try to think about such thingsOct 18 22:18
JPerlowfewa: my position on RMS was recently publishedOct 18 22:18
JPerlowhttp://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=11266Oct 18 22:18
seller_liarWhat the iphone is doing to my world , my coutry and my society?Oct 18 22:18
seller_liarwhat wal-mart does to my city?Oct 18 22:18
fewaad homonem Oct 18 22:18
schestowitzJPerlow: it is not accurateOct 18 22:18
fewaim not interestedOct 18 22:18
schestowitzSee Groklaw for detailsOct 18 22:18
schestowitzAnd it escapes the real issuesOct 18 22:19
schestowitzRMS is an activistOct 18 22:19
JPerlowGroklaw represents a difference of opinion./Oct 18 22:19
schestowitzS/w is second to himOct 18 22:19
JPerlowthere is no "accuracy" or "inaccuracy"Oct 18 22:19
fewaJPerlow, yes there isOct 18 22:19
JPerlowand groklaw did not respond to my second peice.Oct 18 22:19
fewairreleventOct 18 22:19
schestowitzJPerlow: yes, mostly greed (frivilous suits) with the different opinion of "people"Oct 18 22:19
schestowitz[22:19] <JPerlow> there is no "accuracy" or "inaccuracy"Oct 18 22:20
JPerlowI also have no intention of furthering any dialogue with pamela jones.Oct 18 22:20
schestowitzOK, so let's pretend that GNOME came before GIMPOct 18 22:20
JPerlowI did not say at any time GNOME came before GIMP or GTK.Oct 18 22:20
seller_liarthe worst enemy of ethics is the "beauty things"Oct 18 22:21
schestowitzJPerlow: and we could do OK with KDE tooOct 18 22:21
schestowitzLike Linux, it was created by a EUropean University student with a need for personal useOct 18 22:22
JPerlowyes, you could do OK with KDE.Oct 18 22:22
seller_liarlike iphones , macOS, ipods and other thingsOct 18 22:22
JPerlowRoy I have no interest in activism, I am only interested in software from the perspective of its development model and promoting a pragmatic view of Open Source.Oct 18 22:23
fewaJPerlow, then why are you launching ad hominen attacks?Oct 18 22:24
JPerlowWhy would you define my free expression as ad hominem?Oct 18 22:24
_goblinIm going to be thick here and ask who Jperlow is...Oct 18 22:24
seller_liarJPerlow:  but opensource to bad things is not goodOct 18 22:25
_goblinif theres a short answer.Oct 18 22:25
fewawhy dont you just talk about that what you wantOct 18 22:25
fewait seems like you are attacking what other people thinkOct 18 22:25
fewabut are they hurting you?Oct 18 22:25
seller_liarif opensource helps microsoft to continues the evil , opensource does not helpOct 18 22:25
fewado you have a rationale for meddling in their affairs?Oct 18 22:25
fewaJPerlow, ?Oct 18 22:25
schestowitzJPerlow: why not learn from feudalism?Oct 18 22:25
JPerlowfewa, I have an opinion, with a right to express it. I als will not deny Roy, or Pamela Jones, or RMS or anyone else to express theirs.Oct 18 22:26
schestowitzSaying you're "not interested" is not a moral thing to doOct 18 22:26
schestowitzIt's a moral obligation to be at least aware if not involvdOct 18 22:26
seller_liargood technology (open source ) in bad hands (microsoft ,big companies) is a big problemOct 18 22:26
fewaJPerlow, if you are "not interested" you wouldn't be hereOct 18 22:26
fewaselling your attacksOct 18 22:26
schestowitzTo say for example, "I'm sorry to hear we slaughtered many in Peru" is not enoughOct 18 22:26
fewayour sournessOct 18 22:26
schestowitzIMHOOct 18 22:26
JPerlowI disagree, and again, morals have nothing to do with the business of technology.Oct 18 22:26
seller_liartechnology without  ethics does not have valueOct 18 22:26
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fewayou would just get on with your lifeOct 18 22:26
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to SlatedOct 18 22:26
seller_liarinstead it produces even more destructionOct 18 22:26
*[H]omer has quit (Connection timed out)Oct 18 22:27
JPerlowfewa, I am interested as an observer to try to understand Roy's point of view.Oct 18 22:27
fewaJPerlow, no, you are "uninterested" Oct 18 22:27
schestowitz_goblin: http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=11266Oct 18 22:27
JPerlowhowever, I have no personal interest in software actvisim from the perspective of morals or ethics.Oct 18 22:28
schestowitz[22:26] <JPerlow> I disagree, and again, morals have nothing to do with the business of technology.Oct 18 22:28
schestowitzFALSEOct 18 22:28
_goblinthanksOct 18 22:28
fewaJPerlow, go awayOct 18 22:28
schestowitzIt's not like you put your brain in a jar when you go to workOct 18 22:28
JPerlowthat is your opinion.Oct 18 22:28
schestowitzOr leave ethics at the doorOct 18 22:28
fewaall you want to do JPerlow is create straw menOct 18 22:28
fewaand talk about something you have no rational interest itOct 18 22:28
fewaexcept that you are a disturberOct 18 22:28
_goblinoh yes.  I remember now.Oct 18 22:29
JPerlowSo I am a disturber but Boycottnovell is not?Oct 18 22:29
fewait seems like you came here to preachOct 18 22:29
fewaand preach an attackOct 18 22:29
JPerlowno, I'm here to listen.Oct 18 22:29
fewawhile simurtameously proclaiming that you are not "interested"Oct 18 22:29
fewaits hypocracyOct 18 22:29
JPerlowno, I have dissenting views.Oct 18 22:29
fewayou are not interested in those that differ from youOct 18 22:29
fewaonly your idea have meritOct 18 22:29
JPerlowyou like putting words in the mouth of others, fewa.Oct 18 22:30
schestowitz[Wednesday 30 Sep 2009] [22:57:37] <schestowitz>Cool, nice to have you around, JPerlowOct 18 22:30
schestowitz[Wednesday 30 Sep 2009] [22:57:53] <JPerlow>You say that now, but you'll regret it later.Oct 18 22:30
seller_liarIf a technology is in bad hands, it's better the tecnology does not have existOct 18 22:30
fewa<JPerlow> "Ethics" or "Ethical" as defined by FSF and RMS has no place in my world.Oct 18 22:30
JPerlowschestowitz: I actually find this rather entertaining.Oct 18 22:30
schestowitzNice.Oct 18 22:30
JPerlowfewa, are you saying that dissent on this channel is not to be allowed?Oct 18 22:31
schestowitzGrab a party pack :-)Oct 18 22:31
schestowitzJPerlow: not trueOct 18 22:31
fewaJPerlow, attacks the four freedomsOct 18 22:31
schestowitzPersonal abuse is the thing not toleratedOct 18 22:31
fewadismisses them as "unethical"Oct 18 22:31
schestowitzThat for isntance is why we kicked mutex beforeOct 18 22:31
schestowitzNot dissenting viewsOct 18 22:31
fewaor essentially irreleventOct 18 22:31
JPerlowfewa, define what I do as "attacking"Oct 18 22:31
JPerlowwhy is having a dissenting opinion an "attack?"Oct 18 22:32
schestowitzIt's not attackingOct 18 22:32
fewawell anyways, im uninterestedOct 18 22:32
schestowitzI disagree with fewaOct 18 22:32
JPerlowroy, I know you doOct 18 22:32
fewaits just trying to hitch a rideOct 18 22:32
schestowitzI think it's a debate, and it's mostly politeOct 18 22:32
_goblinquote JPerlow: "Those of us who are Open Source evangelists use Open Source software because it is practical and useful to do so, not due to an inherent ideological need to do so." - I actually agree with that.Oct 18 22:32
schestowitzTrueOct 18 22:32
schestowitzThat's OKOct 18 22:32
schestowitzWhat I don't appreciate is this:Oct 18 22:32
schestowitzPeople who don't care much about the ethics AND bash those who doOct 18 22:33
fewaschestowitz, exactlyOct 18 22:33
_goblintrue.Oct 18 22:33
schestowitzAs I often stress, don't forget those who fight for youOct 18 22:33
schestowitzIt's like women who might choose to bash ROsa ParksOct 18 22:33
seller_liaropen source is a lie Oct 18 22:33
JPerlowagain, you are subscribing to the FSF's definition of "Ethics" and include that as a precondition for your belief system.Oct 18 22:33
schestowitzSaying she is causing mysoginismOct 18 22:33
seller_liaropen source have a occult ideologyOct 18 22:33
fewaJPerlow, not at allOct 18 22:33
seller_liarselfish life qualityOct 18 22:33
fewaJPerlow, that is a straw manOct 18 22:34
schestowitz*misogynismOct 18 22:34
seller_liarbut everything is connected Oct 18 22:34
fewalook at the Debian Free Software GuidelinesOct 18 22:34
schestowitzopen source tries to override its rootsOct 18 22:34
fewathat is a very good definition of free softwareOct 18 22:34
schestowitzThe open source thing usually runs on gnu/linux/gplOct 18 22:34
seller_liarthe life quality depends of world where tou liveOct 18 22:34
schestowitzSo it's fair to realise the essenceOct 18 22:34
schestowitzNot to stomp on itOct 18 22:34
JPerlowI do not subscribe to the FSF's or RMS's definition of ethics, and feel it has no place in Open Source. Period.Oct 18 22:34
fewaJPerlow, I just brought up another topic as a response-- the Debian Free Software GuidelinesOct 18 22:35
fewawill you address that JPerlow Oct 18 22:35
schestowitzWhat the open source anti-RMians do (like Asay) is like a kid who kicks his dad to the curb once that dad got him through high education, because that father is an 'embarrassment'Oct 18 22:35
fewa???Oct 18 22:35
schestowitzThat's what Asay, JPerlow et al are doing imhoOct 18 22:35
JPerlowfewa: Debian is not even a project that RMS endorses/Oct 18 22:35
fewaor are you just going to continue to attack RMS and the FSF Oct 18 22:35
JPerlowdebian is not part of the FSF.Oct 18 22:36
fewaJPerlow, but it contains the essence of free softwareOct 18 22:36
fewaIMHOOct 18 22:36
JPerlowIt is part of Software in the Public Interest.Oct 18 22:36
fewaJPerlow, all you want to do is attackOct 18 22:36
schestowitzFSF is cool with DebianOct 18 22:36
JPerlowlolOct 18 22:36
schestowitzIt just can't endorse the distroOct 18 22:36
JPerlowRMS does not endorse Debian.Oct 18 22:36
schestowitzgnewsense is based on DebianOct 18 22:36
schestowitzUbuntu->gnewsenseOct 18 22:36
fewabut yes, the practical use of free and open source software is greatOct 18 22:36
seller_liarJPerlow: What the real interest of open source developers?Oct 18 22:36
schestowitzSo RMS uses a form of DebianOct 18 22:37
seller_liarI don t knowOct 18 22:37
seller_liarentertainment? money? art?Oct 18 22:37
seller_liarwhat?Oct 18 22:37
fewa"You are excluded from our community of Free Software unless you conform to behavior that which we find acceptable".Oct 18 22:37
schestowitzhttp://arstechnica.com/business/news/2009/10/lots-of-awareness-little-clue-about-identity-fraud.arsOct 18 22:37
phIRCeTitle: Businesses fail to take basic steps to prevent ID fraud - Ars Technica .::. Size~: 45.02 KBOct 18 22:37
fewathats the definition of democracy JPerlow Oct 18 22:37
JPerlowseller: Go to the OSI web site and read the Open Source definition.Oct 18 22:37
schestowitzhttp://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/101409-delta-air-lines-sued-over.htmlOct 18 22:38
fewaDebian Free Software GuidelinesOct 18 22:38
JPerlowfewa debian is a linux distribution.Oct 18 22:38
fewahttp://www.debian.org/social_contractOct 18 22:38
phIRCeTitle:    Debian Social Contract  .::. Size~: 13.59 KBOct 18 22:38
fewaJPerlow, GNU/LinuxOct 18 22:38
schestowitzhttp://tech.yahoo.com/news/zd/20091014/tc_zd/245050 Netbooks Drive Acer to #2 PC Vendor in World Oct 18 22:39
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JPerlowfewa, this conversation is going to go nowhere. I'm going to have more luck with Roy.Oct 18 22:39
fewaJPerlow, its going nowhere cause you intended for it to go nowhereOct 18 22:39
fewayou started out dening the central point you are trying to refute'Oct 18 22:39
fewasimply dismissing itOct 18 22:39
schestowitzx-| http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/14/manchester_airport_arch/Oct 18 22:40
JPerlowfewa: because it is unnaceptable for you to have someone with a dissenting opinion :)Oct 18 22:40
phIRCeTitle: Child porn threat to airport's 'virtual strip search' scanners • The Register .::. Size~: 22.17 KBOct 18 22:40
fewa<fewa> "You are excluded from our community of Free Software unless you conform to behavior that which we find acceptable". <-- thats the definition of democracy JPerlow Oct 18 22:40
JPerlowthat is the ideology of the FSF.Oct 18 22:40
fewait is the definiton of democracyOct 18 22:40
JPerlowwhich, I do not agree with.Oct 18 22:40
fewaFSF isn't the communityOct 18 22:40
schestowitzIt is A communityOct 18 22:41
schestowitzThere are many communitiesOct 18 22:41
fewaTHEOct 18 22:41
schestowitzHans has a good post about itOct 18 22:41
fewathat is the definition of democracyOct 18 22:41
schestowitz"There is no 'the' community"Oct 18 22:41
fewawhich I guess you dissest inOct 18 22:41
fewayou dissent in functioning democracyOct 18 22:41
schestowitzNot reallyOct 18 22:41
JPerlowwell I'm going to take my wife to dinner.Oct 18 22:41
schestowitzHe expressed a POVOct 18 22:41
JPerlow:)Oct 18 22:41
fewawell this: "You are excluded from our community of Free Software unless you conform to behavior that which we find acceptable". Oct 18 22:41
fewathat is democracyOct 18 22:41
JPerlowRoy, ttyl, enjoy your sundayOct 18 22:42
seller_liarJPerlow: byeOct 18 22:42
JPerlowI'll leave the chat client open.Oct 18 22:42
schestowitzseller_liar: can you help contribute info on BR?Oct 18 22:42
schestowitzI've no idea what happens there with colonialismOct 18 22:42
seller_liarnot at moment sorry royOct 18 22:42
schestowitzI hear about the loggers vs tribes thoughOct 18 22:42
schestowitzRMS writes _a lot_ about itOct 18 22:42
schestowitzTribes meet shareholders :-)Oct 18 22:43
seller_liarRMS is a true citizen of this worldOct 18 22:43
schestowitzshareholders want woodOct 18 22:43
schestowitzFor big BIG gains! Yay!!!!!!!Oct 18 22:43
fewa<schestowitz> shareholders want woodOct 18 22:43
fewayesOct 18 22:43
fewaCEOs want woodOct 18 22:43
schestowitzTribes have no $$Oct 18 22:43
schestowitzThus, tribes >> /dev/null/Oct 18 22:43
seller_liarthe only way is stop people to buy from these shareholdersOct 18 22:44
schestowitzThe rule of the gun, like the Europeans when they invaded AmericaOct 18 22:44
seller_liardont buy wood from these peopleOct 18 22:44
fewai meant the other wood :POct 18 22:45
seller_liardon t help share holdersOct 18 22:45
schestowitzThen there are euphemisms and embellished stories like, "they enjoyed or jewels and electricity and access to patents"Oct 18 22:45
fewalawlOct 18 22:45
schestowitz /s/or/our/Oct 18 22:45
seller_liarshare holders have a lot of money Oct 18 22:45
seller_liarthey don t need moreOct 18 22:45
fewaseller_liar, you should see what Chomsky says about boycottsOct 18 22:45
fewathey are rarely effectiveOct 18 22:45
seller_liarwhy?Oct 18 22:45
schestowitzseller_liar: they'll invest in s/t elseOct 18 22:45
*Xarver has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))Oct 18 22:45
schestowitzThey don't care about woodOct 18 22:45
*Xarver1 is now known as XarverOct 18 22:45
fewathey have to be carefully thought outOct 18 22:45
schestowitzThey care about a 3- or 4-letter ticker symbol that will help them buy a yachtOct 18 22:46
fewawith endangered wood, yes, it can be very effectiveOct 18 22:46
seller_liaryes , I know , it need organisation Oct 18 22:46
seller_liarbut it 's better thans cry and shoutOct 18 22:46
schestowitzElimination of lumber is inevitable this wayOct 18 22:46
schestowitzfewa showed this video about "green GDP"Oct 18 22:46
schestowitzWith a nice analogyOct 18 22:46
schestowitzIf a tribe sells all its wood, it can claim huge GDP growthOct 18 22:46
*Balrog_ (n=Balrog@pool-173-59-71-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovellOct 18 22:47
schestowitzBut where has the forest vanished?Oct 18 22:47
seller_liarshouting and crying does not change nothingOct 18 22:47
schestowitzThere is no account for this from an investor's POVOct 18 22:47
schestowitzIt's all Q->QOct 18 22:47
fewayes that was StiglitzOct 18 22:47
fewaa great economistOct 18 22:47
fewaKeneyesianOct 18 22:47
schestowitzProfits as measured within a framework of timeOct 18 22:47
schestowitzUsually 3 months, cycles of 4Oct 18 22:47
schestowitzseller_liar: what do you suggest other than this?Oct 18 22:48
schestowitzBoycottNovell for example just used textOct 18 22:48
schestowitzAnd apache serverOct 18 22:48
schestowitz7,000 unique people/dayOct 18 22:48
schestowitzWe have some fans in south America sending in E-mail :-)Oct 18 22:48
seller_liartry to mount a flux of microsoft power and Oct 18 22:48
seller_liarfor example Oct 18 22:49
schestowitzYou suggested a planet();Oct 18 22:49
schestowitzWe just need more peopleOct 18 22:49
seller_liaryes, but there another ideaOct 18 22:49
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/14/microsoft_windows_bank_thefts/Oct 18 22:49
phIRCeTitle: Trojan plunders $480k from online bank account • The Register .::. Size~: 24.06 KBOct 18 22:49
seller_liartry to draw a graph of microsoft influence in society and connections of microsoft associationsOct 18 22:50
schestowitzGraphs changeOct 18 22:50
schestowitzIt's a lot of workOct 18 22:50
schestowitzE.g. http://boycottnovell.com/2007/08/20/proxy-map/Oct 18 22:51
phIRCeTitle: Mindmap: Microsoft Deals and Partnership as Proxies in a Software Battle | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 111.76 KBOct 18 22:51
seller_liaryes, but it helps people boycott every institution in affiliation with microsoftOct 18 22:51
schestowitzDoesn't workOct 18 22:51
schestowitzIt's too complicatedOct 18 22:51
seller_liarwhy?Oct 18 22:51
schestowitzCause all are at least using some WindowsOct 18 22:51
*ThistleWeb (n=gordon@unaffiliated/thistleweb) has joined #boycottnovellOct 18 22:51
schestowitzAnd connected at different levelsOct 18 22:51
schestowitzAlso, Microsoft is not the only issueOct 18 22:51
schestowitzIt's part of a systemOct 18 22:52
schestowitzMore of a symptom IMHOOct 18 22:52
schestowitzThere are worseOct 18 22:52
seller_liaryes, but we focus only in microsoft at momentOct 18 22:52
schestowitzMPAA|RIAA, Blackwater.....Oct 18 22:52
seller_liarfor example , if we connect idg with microsoft , people can boycott idgOct 18 22:53
seller_liarDifferent levels ? Oct 18 22:53
seller_liarDoes not matterOct 18 22:53
seller_liarPeople boycott more or less according with the connectioOct 18 22:54
schestowitzseller_liar: idg is also connected to other companiesOct 18 22:54
schestowitzIt's not so simpleOct 18 22:54
schestowitzBut IDG is not connected to peopleOct 18 22:54
seller_liarof course it is!Oct 18 22:54
schestowitzThus, it covers what companies (i.e. clients) want, the way they present itOct 18 22:55
seller_liarpeople see idgOct 18 22:55
schestowitzIt's basically corporate pressOct 18 22:55
schestowitzBy business, for businessOct 18 22:55
seller_liaryes ,but we need focus only in microsoft affiliatesOct 18 22:55
schestowitzseller_liar: let me explainOct 18 22:55
schestowitz[22:54] <schestowitz> But IDG is not connected to peopleOct 18 22:55
seller_liarof course there are other companies to boycottOct 18 22:55
schestowitz[22:54] <seller_liar> of course it is!Oct 18 22:55
schestowitzThey are connected PASSIVELYOct 18 22:55
schestowitzPeople read, i.e. they are fedOct 18 22:55
schestowitzRead-onlyOct 18 22:55
schestowitzRO pressOct 18 22:56
schestowitzThe "Write" side is not peopleOct 18 22:56
schestowitzIt's not a wikiOct 18 22:56
schestowitzIt's the same with American media in generalOct 18 22:56
schestowitzSmall (and powerful) instructs the big (majority)Oct 18 22:56
schestowitz[22:55] <seller_liar> yes ,but we need focus only in microsoft affiliatesOct 18 22:56
schestowitzThat would also be APpleOct 18 22:56
schestowitzAnd IBMOct 18 22:57
schestowitzIt's not simpleOct 18 22:57
schestowitzA lot are connectedOct 18 22:57
schestowitzThey share interestsOct 18 22:57
schestowitzThe interests are shard based on profit motivesOct 18 22:57
fewayepOct 18 22:57
schestowitzBut the commonality of them is that the extranality (public) is never accounted forOct 18 22:57
schestowitzSo if they pollute the env while making xbox360 and ps3, that's fine for themOct 18 22:58
schestowitzNot so much for usOct 18 22:58
fewaaccountabilityOct 18 22:58
schestowitzHeh.Oct 18 22:58
schestowitzFor companies?Oct 18 22:58
schestowitzSee Danger/SideKickOct 18 22:58
fewaaccountability is what you are talking aboutOct 18 22:58
seller_liaryesOct 18 22:59
fewahow to get there is another questionOct 18 22:59
schestowitzPenaltiesOct 18 22:59
fewafor example, congresspeople need to be paid moreOct 18 22:59
schestowitzBut only if the public can impact decisionsOct 18 22:59
fewanot for their own selfOct 18 22:59
fewabut they need independant research staffOct 18 22:59
schestowitzFor example, healthcare is off the table in US electionsOct 18 22:59
fewalarge, at least 50 for each memberOct 18 22:59
schestowitzBut it's the #1 issue in people's mindsOct 18 22:59
seller_liarbut look , the graph is important because people will see how microsoft is connected with societyOct 18 22:59
schestowitzBecause not people guide the "change"Oct 18 22:59
schestowitzThe business class doesOct 18 22:59
seller_liarpolitics is a very complex system Oct 18 22:59
fewaso that indepentant researchers, rather than lobbiests, can create policyOct 18 22:59
fewaand directly under those that are suppose to representOct 18 23:00
fewausOct 18 23:00
schestowitz"No child's behind left" [sic]Oct 18 23:00
seller_liarit's not so easy to changeOct 18 23:00
fewathey need research staff to do their job betterOct 18 23:00
fewaand also we need to Change-Congress.orgOct 18 23:00
*Slated has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))Oct 18 23:00
seller_liarbut we must to show how microsoft is connected with the worldOct 18 23:00
fewawith public financing of public electionsOct 18 23:00
schestowitzfewa: didn't Lessig step away?Oct 18 23:00
schestowitzHe's changing target all the timeOct 18 23:00
schestowitzHe put Ito in CCOct 18 23:00
seller_liarfor example , big companies steals all educated people to work in private projectsOct 18 23:01
schestowitzMaybe Change site is also handed over to someoneOct 18 23:01
fewaschestowitz, nopeOct 18 23:01
schestowitzseller_liar: project ManhattanOct 18 23:01
schestowitzImportant stuffOct 18 23:01
fewai fallow his videosOct 18 23:01
seller_liarthe projects does not help the society ,only the the companyOct 18 23:01
schestowitz100,000 scientists IIRCOct 18 23:01
schestowitzTo 'help' societyOct 18 23:01
schestowitzOne nuclear bomb at a timeOct 18 23:01
fewahttp://lessig.blip.tv/Oct 18 23:01
fewaInstitutional Corruption - Opening LecturOct 18 23:02
seller_liarnuclear bomb it 's like open sourceOct 18 23:02
schestowitzMaybe 500,000 scientists, I can't rememberOct 18 23:02
seller_liar"create technology without ethics"Oct 18 23:02
schestowitzfewa: will watch laterOct 18 23:02
fewafor congresspeople to do their job correctly they need research staffOct 18 23:02
schestowitzbookmarkedOct 18 23:02
fewasociety is much more complicated than it was 50 years agoOct 18 23:02
fewaand the federal government is largeOct 18 23:02
seller_liarthe only way to destroy microsoft without violence is boycott and rejection Oct 18 23:03
schestowitzfewa: his lectures are al very similarOct 18 23:03
schestowitzSame layout, some of the same slides and examples tooOct 18 23:03
seller_liarand promotion of good waysOct 18 23:03
fewayesOct 18 23:03
schestowitzAfter a while it gets repetitiveOct 18 23:03
fewai dont watch them allOct 18 23:03
schestowitzIt's like professors who preach about the same stuff (with variations) for two decadesOct 18 23:03
seller_liarthe first pass is show the relationship of microsoft and society (mevilda gates, lobby,microsoft tax...)Oct 18 23:04
seller_liarsecond , Oct 18 23:04
seller_liarstart to create strategies to cripple down theses connections Oct 18 23:04
seller_liarfor example ,with microsoft tax you can buy computer only in stores with windows-free or linuxOct 18 23:05
seller_liarstores will "feel" the pain.Oct 18 23:05
seller_liaroh ,sorry , this is the third passOct 18 23:06
seller_liarthe second pass is...Oct 18 23:06
seller_liartry to create a organization and project to change and destroy these connections Oct 18 23:06
seller_liarand third ,Oct 18 23:07
seller_liarstart to put the plans in actionOct 18 23:07
seller_liarwhat maintains microsoft powerful and strong is the societyOct 18 23:08
seller_liarthe only way to stop microsoft is to stop the money flux (people buying windows)Oct 18 23:09
seller_liarbut there are another factors Oct 18 23:10
schestowitzhttp://www.goldmansachs666.com/2009/10/is-goldman-sachs-committing-accounting.htmlOct 18 23:10
phIRCeTitle: Is Goldman Sachs Committing Accounting Fraud? ~ Goldman Sachs Information, Comments, Opinions and Facts .::. Size~: 99.38 KBOct 18 23:10
seller_liarfor example , if alll people in the world stop to buy windows ,microsoft will not dieOct 18 23:10
schestowitz[23:09] <seller_liar> the only way to stop microsoft is to stop the money flux (people buying windows)Oct 18 23:11
schestowitzPeople don't buy WindowsOct 18 23:11
schestowitzOEMs doOct 18 23:11
schestowitzLike 80% of salesOct 18 23:11
schestowitzAnd then impose it upon computer buyersOct 18 23:11
seller_liarbut people buys windows from oemsOct 18 23:11
schestowitzThis is why many of us aren't Dell fansOct 18 23:11
ThistleWebnobody buys windows, it's all licenced, the owner is always <SOct 18 23:11
seller_liarif people stops , the oem stopsOct 18 23:11
ThistleWebMS*Oct 18 23:11
ThistleWebyou buy a sticker with a generated number on itOct 18 23:11
ThistleWeband conditions attachedOct 18 23:11
schestowitzseller_liar: they can't stopOct 18 23:11
schestowitzThey get no refundOct 18 23:11
schestowitzIt's forcefeedingOct 18 23:12
seller_liardont buy from OEMsOct 18 23:12
schestowitzIn Brazill it's better cause Linux preinstalls rate is highOct 18 23:12
schestowitzSame in CHinaOct 18 23:12
seller_liargo to the black market and buy a customized computerOct 18 23:12
schestowitzseller_liar: you challenge consumerismOct 18 23:12
schestowitzThe Western public is being brainwashed to buy brandOct 18 23:13
seller_liarsome people buy individual parts Oct 18 23:13
schestowitz"People-ready"... "Dell... Duo Core...." ... "Connecting people"Oct 18 23:13
schestowitzseller_liar: they don't buy in bulkOct 18 23:13
schestowitzThe way it is set up, if you are not a 'Dell' or 'Wal-Mart', then you can't compete on priceOct 18 23:14
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schestowitzYou need to rely on people who are brainwash-escapistsOct 18 23:14
schestowitzSome people buy organic food for similar reasonsOct 18 23:14
schestowitzOr free-range chickenOct 18 23:14
schestowitzThe vast majority doesn't even understand the meritOct 18 23:15
schestowitzhttp://www.goldmansachs666.com/2009/10/reuters-on-goldman-sachs-bonuses.htmlOct 18 23:16
phIRCeTitle: Reuters On Goldman Sachs Bonuses ~ Goldman Sachs Information, Comments, Opinions and Facts .::. Size~: 100.27 KBOct 18 23:16
seller_liarwal mart is unethicalOct 18 23:16
seller_liarpeople should know about externalisation of costsOct 18 23:17
seller_liarsee story of stuffOct 18 23:17
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seller_liarhttp://www.storyofstuff.com/Oct 18 23:19
phIRCeTitle: The Story of Stuff with Annie Leonard .::. Size~: 7.32 KBOct 18 23:19
seller_liarI think boycott works well in venezuelaOct 18 23:21
seller_liarchavez have good influence in people of venezuelaOct 18 23:21
schestowitzIt seems soOct 18 23:22
seller_liarchavez should instruct people against US. and start a militarism courseOct 18 23:23
schestowitzI've bookmarked the film for laterOct 18 23:24
schestowitzN militarismOct 18 23:24
schestowitzNot neededOct 18 23:24
schestowitzBut he should expose those coup attemptsOct 18 23:24
schestowitzThe CIA tried to overthrow him in 2002 IIRCOct 18 23:24
seller_liarI know Oct 18 23:24
schestowitzHe doesn't take orders and give away the nation's energyOct 18 23:24
schestowitzIt  makes him a "bad guy"Oct 18 23:25
seller_liarThe revolution will not televsioned"Oct 18 23:25
schestowitzWhen the US called someone "tyrant" or "bad guy" it means it needs to be assassinatedOct 18 23:25
schestowitzBut if "blowback" is tremendous, then they can'tOct 18 23:25
schestowitzSo PR campaign is neededOct 18 23:25
schestowitzAnd they can't call him "terrorist"Oct 18 23:25
seller_liarchavez must help people to gain self-study abilityOct 18 23:25
schestowitzThey wish they could label him thatOct 18 23:26
schestowitzLook at SaddamOct 18 23:26
seller_liarthe big problem of you map is does not have institutions connectedOct 18 23:26
seller_liarsaddam was a powerful enemyOct 18 23:26
schestowitzThe US used fabrications (WoMD) and some old news about gassing Kurds, which he UK and US were OK with when it happeendOct 18 23:27
schestowitz*LOL* : http://practical-tech.com/network/sidekick-the-good-news-the-bad-news/Oct 18 23:27
phIRCeTitle: Sidekick: The Good News & the Bad News « Practical Technology .::. Size~: 74.23 KBOct 18 23:28
seller_liarUS tried to send mercenaries to kill saddam Oct 18 23:28
schestowitzPeople will never learnOct 18 23:28
schestowitzTrust <company> with your dataOct 18 23:28
schestowitzseller_liar: when?Oct 18 23:28
seller_liarbut the mercenaries have failed Oct 18 23:28
schestowitzhttp://www.zimguardian.com/?p=1159Oct 18 23:28
seller_liarand then the US sends the military Oct 18 23:29
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seller_liarthe map needs institutions and people connected .Oct 18 23:30
seller_liarlike the government , idg, the morgan people, apple and othersOct 18 23:31
schestowitz!google what is morgan peopleOct 18 23:32
phIRCe[1] - Lawyers for Personal Injury | Morgan & Morgan | http://www.forthepeople.com/Oct 18 23:32
phIRCe[2] - Contact Us | Attorneys, Lawyers & Legal Resources | http://www.forthepeople.com/contact_us.htmOct 18 23:32
phIRCe[3] - Tracy Morgan Is Out Turning 'Good Girls Bad' - Tracy Morgan ... | http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20313008,00.htmlOct 18 23:32
phIRCe[4] - Tracy Morgan Makes the Most of His Sobriety - Tracy Morgan ... | http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20293121,00.htmlOct 18 23:32
schestowitzJP Morgan?Oct 18 23:32
seller_liaryesOct 18 23:34
seller_liarI have forgottern now , but you cited in some articlesOct 18 23:34
seller_liarit 's only a exampleOct 18 23:35
schestowitzThey are hardly connectedOct 18 23:36
schestowitzMicrosoft is only beginning to sniff around banksOct 18 23:36
seller_liari need to go byeOct 18 23:37
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schestowitzhttp://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-kernel-tuning-virtual-memory-subsystem/Oct 18 23:47
tessierClasses struggle, some classes triumph, others are eliminated. (Mao Zedong on OO and refactoring)Oct 18 23:52
tessierheheOct 18 23:52
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schestowitzhttp://www.unixmen.com/linux-tutorials/474-enchance-your-launchbar-menu-in-linux-with-cairo-dockOct 18 23:57
trmancowhatOct 18 23:57
trmancois phIRCe asleep?Oct 18 23:57
trmancowake up boy!Oct 18 23:57
schestowitzMaybe it's a girlOct 18 23:57
trmancololOct 18 23:58
*oiaohm gives trmanco the handy cow prodOct 18 23:58
trmancoyeahOct 18 23:58
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trmancobetter to be a girl :-POct 18 23:58
*trmanco wonders what that isOct 18 23:58
schestowitzIf you call the bot "she" you could be accused of sexism thoughOct 18 23:59
schestowitzObjectification Oct 18 23:59
trmancowhat?Oct 18 23:59
trmancothat's why I reconsidered from it being a boy :-POct 18 23:59
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