ender2070 | even the DSL providers here use bell | Nov 05 00:00 |
---|---|---|
cubezzz | that's true | Nov 05 00:01 |
ender2070 | I reported Bell & Rogers to the competition bureau | Nov 05 00:01 |
cubezzz | but NCF will give you a better rate | Nov 05 00:01 |
ender2070 | I think they cooperate with each other to "pretend" to compete | Nov 05 00:01 |
ender2070 | I had like several pages with points, facts and theorie | Nov 05 00:02 |
ender2070 | theories* | Nov 05 00:02 |
ender2070 | if you notice they don't run advertisements that compete with each other, they'll bash each other and be quiet when the other one does it | Nov 05 00:02 |
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ender2070 | the fact that the other DSL providers all provide service cheaper is proof bell overcharges | Nov 05 00:03 |
ender2070 | same lines and servers | Nov 05 00:03 |
schestowitz | wallc: hey | Nov 05 00:05 |
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voltronw | ender2070: are you uninstalling all software written in c? it's a bell technology you know | Nov 05 00:06 |
ThistleWeb | ping _goblin | Nov 05 00:07 |
ender2070 | bell canada? | Nov 05 00:07 |
cubezzz | no :) | Nov 05 00:07 |
ender2070 | I didn't know Bell Canada wrote C | Nov 05 00:07 |
cubezzz | Bell Labs | Nov 05 00:07 |
ender2070 | im being a douche | Nov 05 00:07 |
ender2070 | lol | Nov 05 00:08 |
ThistleWeb | _goblin: was it you who exposed that MS use linux servers for some internal stuff? | Nov 05 00:08 |
voltronw | ender2070: oh phew, that was close. i thought you were going to have to uninstall your kernel | Nov 05 00:08 |
ThistleWeb | or am I thinking about someone else? | Nov 05 00:08 |
cubezzz | currently? I know they used to use BSD | Nov 05 00:09 |
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ThistleWeb | yeah that's hotmail | Nov 05 00:10 |
ender2070 | voltronw - i have nothing against bell labs | Nov 05 00:10 |
ThistleWeb | I saw a blog post about how MS keep their customer data from stuff like Live on windows servers, yet all their critical internal stuff is Linux servers | Nov 05 00:10 |
ender2070 | voltronw - doesnt stop me from removing all traces of mono though | Nov 05 00:11 |
voltronw | ender2070: yes, you must protect your precious bodily fluids from contamination | Nov 05 00:12 |
ender2070 | voltronw - lol, actually Qt is superior and having mono apps is wasting space on my KDE install | Nov 05 00:12 |
voltronw | ender2070: how big is your hd? | Nov 05 00:12 |
ender2070 | voltronw - 640GB | Nov 05 00:13 |
voltronw | ah yeah, can't fit that 50mb mono dependency on that tiny thing | Nov 05 00:13 |
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ender2070 | voltronw - sounds like you're gonna bring up the arguement I had with an MSFT rep over IE being included | Nov 05 00:13 |
_Hicham_ | ThistleWeb : I heard that they were using FreeBSD back in 1998 for their hotmail servers | Nov 05 00:14 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How #GNU #Linux Compares to #Windows http://bit.ly/2bE3iJ | Nov 05 00:14 | |
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voltronw | my only "argument" is you should run whatever software you want | Nov 05 00:14 |
ThistleWeb | _Hicham_: yeah it apparently was BSD before they bought it and ported it to windows | Nov 05 00:14 |
ender2070 | voltronw - exactly | Nov 05 00:14 |
ender2070 | voltronw - "wasting space" also means screen space, ever have a dual kde/gnome install? way too many apps | Nov 05 00:15 |
_Hicham_ | are u trying to remove mono ? | Nov 05 00:15 |
voltronw | ender2070: these apps are taking up screen space even when they aren't open? | Nov 05 00:15 |
voltronw | or making your menus too tall? | Nov 05 00:15 |
ThistleWeb | the danger / sidekick thang? did that run on windows or unix servers? | Nov 05 00:15 |
ender2070 | voltronw - menus getting too tall | Nov 05 00:16 |
ender2070 | voltronw - its not about zealotry | Nov 05 00:16 |
ender2070 | i dont even like gtk apps being there if they reproduce something I already use | Nov 05 00:16 |
ThistleWeb | I know MS bought them, or had the contract to store the data | Nov 05 00:16 |
_goblin | thistleweb: No....I can't remember who did. | Nov 05 00:17 |
ThistleWeb | damn, I'm trying to respond to a blog post and I can't remember details | Nov 05 00:17 |
_Hicham_ | senior _goblin, any news ? | Nov 05 00:18 |
ThistleWeb | http://whatwillweuse.com/2009/11/01/in-microsoft-we-trust/#comments | Nov 05 00:18 |
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ThistleWeb | well, respodning to comments really | Nov 05 00:18 |
ThistleWeb | we have an unusual case of a MS employee actually adding a disclaimer to that fact in his comment | Nov 05 00:18 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux #Torrents Used to Defend #FileSharing in General http://ur1.ca/f5iu | Nov 05 00:19 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Selection of #Screencasts Makes Migration to #GNU #Linux Much Simpler http://ur1.ca/f5iy | Nov 05 00:21 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Free Open Source Screencasts for Linux System Administrators and Newbies alike | All about Linux .::. Size~: 75.8 KB | Nov 05 00:21 |
_goblin | _Hicham: ? | Nov 05 00:21 |
_goblin | _Hicham_: ? | Nov 05 00:21 |
ender2070 | hey roy u there? | Nov 05 00:21 |
schestowitz | Yup | Nov 05 00:21 |
schestowitz | What's up? | Nov 05 00:21 |
ender2070 | i need your fantastic memory | Nov 05 00:21 |
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ender2070 | the link for tomboy claiming gnote violates patents/copyright, do u know where that is? | Nov 05 00:22 |
schestowitz | Yes | Nov 05 00:22 |
schestowitz | Hold ob. | Nov 05 00:22 |
schestowitz | Not a good time though cause I'm using loads of swap | Nov 05 00:22 |
schestowitz | Let me fire up konqueror | Nov 05 00:22 |
ender2070 | kk | Nov 05 00:23 |
voltronw | ender2070: http://automorphic.blogspot.com/2009/04/tomboy-0141-future-and-word-about-gnote.html?showComment=1240271760000#c3719937675823376522 | Nov 05 00:24 |
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schestowitz | IIRC it was tje noisy guy from Oxford | Nov 05 00:25 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New IP-PBX Built on #GNU #Linux http://ur1.ca/f5j9 | Nov 05 00:25 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: eOn Communications Intros New IP-PBX Built on Linux .::. Size~: 97.58 KB | Nov 05 00:25 |
schestowitz | more in http://mono-nono.com/ | Nov 05 00:25 |
phIRCe-local | Title: mono-nono .::. Size~: 47.08 KB | Nov 05 00:25 |
schestowitz | re sqlite# | Nov 05 00:25 |
schestowitz | His pointing out of "hypocrisy" | Nov 05 00:25 |
ender2070 | thanks :) | Nov 05 00:25 |
schestowitz | Cause mono is about 'ripping off' C/C++ projects | Nov 05 00:26 |
voltronw | there's a different set of benefits and use cases for managed implementations vs linking to object code | Nov 05 00:28 |
_Hicham_ | mono can't rip off C++ projects | Nov 05 00:29 |
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_Hicham_ | mono can't compare to vala | Nov 05 00:29 |
ender2070 | John Carr is a mono dev? | Nov 05 00:29 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: what do you mean? they're totally different things | Nov 05 00:29 |
_Hicham_ | vala has C# syntax | Nov 05 00:30 |
_Hicham_ | without the overhead of mono stack | Nov 05 00:30 |
_Hicham_ | even with that, people still use C++ for coding | Nov 05 00:30 |
_Hicham_ | or python | Nov 05 00:30 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: vala isn't a runtime, it generates c code | Nov 05 00:30 |
_Hicham_ | yes, I know | Nov 05 00:31 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: what's your point? | Nov 05 00:32 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #MID Comes with #GNU #Linux (and also Windows) http://www.i4u.com/article28060.html | Nov 05 00:32 | |
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_Hicham_ | voltronw : my point is that mono will a novell only project | Nov 05 00:32 |
_Hicham_ | it won't gain a community | Nov 05 00:32 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: as far as i can tell it has a community right now | Nov 05 00:33 |
_Hicham_ | community of novell devs | Nov 05 00:33 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @maxcelcat If politicians were HTTP codes: http://bit.ly/3jvjL | Nov 05 00:35 | |
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voltronw | and there's a vast community of vala developers out there, right? | Nov 05 00:35 |
_Hicham_ | no, there isn't | Nov 05 00:35 |
_Hicham_ | gtk devs still prefer C or Python | Nov 05 00:36 |
voltronw | stackoverflow.com has 472 questions tagged mono, 5 tagged vala | Nov 05 00:36 |
_Hicham_ | Python is best because of the reduced code size | Nov 05 00:36 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: it's 2009, who still prefers c? | Nov 05 00:37 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: python doesn't have threads. that's... kind of a big deal | Nov 05 00:37 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Powerful #Server Arrays Run #GNU #Linux on Heaps of Nodes http://bit.ly/2Qg7d | Nov 05 00:37 | |
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_Hicham_ | a lot of people | Nov 05 00:37 |
_Hicham_ | a lot of low level functions are still best handled with C | Nov 05 00:37 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: have you done a lot of low level programming? | Nov 05 00:38 |
_Hicham_ | no | Nov 05 00:38 |
voltronw | ... | Nov 05 00:39 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Look at How Fast #GNU #Linux is Growing http://ur1.ca/f5jx good summary from @mjasay | Nov 05 00:39 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: The difference a few years makes to open source | The Open Road - CNET News .::. Size~: 92.62 KB | Nov 05 00:39 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: what do you mean by "reduced code size" and why do you feel optimizing for that metric should be the goal of software development? | Nov 05 00:40 |
voltronw | do you means actual lines of code? | Nov 05 00:40 |
voltronw | or size of resulting object code? | Nov 05 00:40 |
_Hicham_ | lines of code of course | Nov 05 00:40 |
voltronw | so, less lines of code is better? | Nov 05 00:41 |
ender2070 | I hear you can fake that stuff by using C and Python together | Nov 05 00:42 |
voltronw | ender2070: you "hear"? | Nov 05 00:43 |
ender2070 | yes, and read | Nov 05 00:43 |
ender2070 | low levels written in C, and Python invoking it when needed | Nov 05 00:43 |
voltronw | aw, i had a little exercise for _Hicham_ | Nov 05 00:46 |
_Hicham_ | voltronw : ? | Nov 05 00:46 |
voltronw | in python, would you prefer to read this: | Nov 05 00:47 |
voltronw | reduce(lambda x, y: output.append(input[x:y]) or y, indices + [len(input)], 0) | Nov 05 00:47 |
voltronw | or this: | Nov 05 00:47 |
voltronw | prev = 0 | Nov 05 00:47 |
voltronw | for index in indexes: | Nov 05 00:47 |
voltronw | output.append(list[prev:index]) | Nov 05 00:47 |
voltronw | prev = index | Nov 05 00:47 |
voltronw | output.append(list[indexes[-1]:]) | Nov 05 00:47 |
_Hicham_ | huh, the second of course | Nov 05 00:48 |
voltronw | ah, so suddenly "reduced code size" isn't that important to you | Nov 05 00:49 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Wonderful #Linux #Kernel 2.6.32 Steps Closer to Final Release http://lkml.org/lkml/2009/11/3/377 http://lwn.net/Articles/KernelSummit2009/ | Nov 05 00:49 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: LKML: Linus Torvalds: Linux 2.6.32-rc6 .::. Size~: 44.96 KB | Nov 05 00:49 |
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_Hicham_ | reduced code size which is easily maintainable | Nov 05 00:49 |
_Hicham_ | not just reducing | Nov 05 00:49 |
_Hicham_ | readability of the code is more important | Nov 05 00:50 |
voltronw | in your experience, do you feel that it's easier to maintain strongly typed languages? or dynamic languages? | Nov 05 00:50 |
DaemonFC | http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/abraham/detail??blogid=95&entry_id=50893 | Nov 05 00:50 |
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_Hicham_ | depends | Nov 05 00:50 |
voltronw | on what does it depend? | Nov 05 00:50 |
_Hicham_ | projects which are mission critical do not use dynamic languages | Nov 05 00:51 |
_Hicham_ | using dynamic languages in them is forbidden | Nov 05 00:51 |
_Hicham_ | everything must be strongly typed | Nov 05 00:52 |
_Hicham_ | to be catched (hopefully) by the compiler | Nov 05 00:52 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: what are you talking about? tons of places use dynamic languages for mission critical applications every day. i'm doing it right now | Nov 05 00:52 |
_Hicham_ | example ? | Nov 05 00:52 |
schestowitz | [00:33] <_Hicham_> community of novell devs | Nov 05 00:52 |
schestowitz | =Novell /employees/ | Nov 05 00:52 |
schestowitz | Not all of them though | Nov 05 00:52 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: there are tons of sites running on ruby/rails | Nov 05 00:52 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: python/django | Nov 05 00:53 |
schestowitz | some even worked for Microsoft | Nov 05 00:53 |
schestowitz | Mindtouch, collier and chums | Nov 05 00:53 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: facebook uses php extensively | Nov 05 00:53 |
_Hicham_ | voltronw : and u call that mission critical ? | Nov 05 00:53 |
ender2070 | apparently | Nov 05 00:53 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: what do you call mission critical? | Nov 05 00:53 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: see some videos from Stiglitz about the crisis | Nov 05 00:53 |
voltronw | i think facebook serving requests is critical to the mission of facebook | Nov 05 00:54 |
schestowitz | He has been inside the World Banks. He knows what a total shame it is for slowing down layoffs | Nov 05 00:54 |
ender2070 | look it up in a business dictionary | Nov 05 00:54 |
schestowitz | The Great bank robbery (aka bailout/stimulus) was never designed to resote jobs or prevent further foreclosures at all | Nov 05 00:55 |
schestowitz | Those behind these scams should be treated no differently than Madoff | Nov 05 00:55 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: ender2070: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_critical | Nov 05 00:55 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Mission critical - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 18.58 KB | Nov 05 00:55 |
ender2070 | I don't see how that makes us wrong | Nov 05 00:56 |
voltronw | facebooks mission is to server webpages and therefore make money. they use php, a dynamic language, to do this. | Nov 05 00:56 |
ender2070 | and their website goes down a lot | Nov 05 00:57 |
ender2070 | and things break | Nov 05 00:57 |
voltronw | but websites implemented with a staticly typed language don't? | Nov 05 00:57 |
voltronw | and not just websites, but software? | Nov 05 00:57 |
ender2070 | they are less likely to | Nov 05 00:57 |
voltronw | that is such a ridiculous statement. | Nov 05 00:58 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #KDE Bling, New Release, Steven Pemberton Interview http://ur1.ca/f5le http://ur1.ca/f5lf http://ur1.ca/f5lg | Nov 05 00:58 | |
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phIRCe-local | Title: Walled Gardens, Semantic Data and the Open Web: an Interview with Steven Pemberton | KDE.news .::. Size~: 20.55 KB | Nov 05 00:58 |
ender2070 | you're begging the question though | Nov 05 00:58 |
_Hicham_ | mission critical is ( to my knowledge ) something in which human lives are involved | Nov 05 00:58 |
_Hicham_ | like embedded airplanes software for example | Nov 05 00:59 |
ender2070 | dynamic vs static have been argued on slashdot for ages | Nov 05 00:59 |
_Hicham_ | industrial machinery | Nov 05 00:59 |
ender2070 | hospital equipment | Nov 05 01:00 |
_Hicham_ | yes | Nov 05 01:00 |
ender2070 | stuff that has to be "exact" | Nov 05 01:00 |
ender2070 | correct? | Nov 05 01:00 |
_Hicham_ | exactly | Nov 05 01:00 |
_Hicham_ | dynamic languages aren't tolerated in this cases, because there are no excuses | Nov 05 01:01 |
_Hicham_ | it is not like u will have a traceback in case of a problem | Nov 05 01:01 |
voltronw | ender2070: MUMPS has been widely deployed in financial and hospital settings for the past 40 years. it's dynamicly typed. | Nov 05 01:01 |
_Hicham_ | but rather dead corpses | Nov 05 01:02 |
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_Hicham_ | which hospital settings ? | Nov 05 01:02 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: the united states veteran administration hospital system. the largest hospital system in the united states. | Nov 05 01:02 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: any other questions? | Nov 05 01:02 |
ender2070 | what does it use MUMPS for | Nov 05 01:03 |
voltronw | Large companies currently using MUMPS include AmeriPath (now part of Quest Diagnostics), Care Centric, Team Health, Epic Systems Corporation, EMIS, Partners HealthCare, Meditech, and GE Healthcare (formerly IDX Systems and Centricity). | Nov 05 01:03 |
_Hicham_ | yes, for administrative purposes ? | Nov 05 01:03 |
voltronw | ender2070: no, to run hospitals top to bottom | Nov 05 01:03 |
ender2070 | thats not what we're talking about | Nov 05 01:03 |
voltronw | MUMPS gained an early following in the financial sector, and MUMPS applications are in use at many banks and credit unions. For instance, it is used by Ameritrade, the largest online trading service in the US with over 12 billion transactions per day, as well as by the Bank of England and Barclays Bank, among others.[ | Nov 05 01:03 |
_Hicham_ | this is still not hospital equipment | Nov 05 01:04 |
_Hicham_ | if a financial organism stops, will people die ? | Nov 05 01:04 |
voltronw | ender2070: it runs medications administration, surgeries, takes input from and logs input from hospital equipment that monitors patients vital signs | Nov 05 01:04 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: if MUMPS stops, hundreds of thousands of people die | Nov 05 01:04 |
ender2070 | there certainly aren't any dynamicly typed powered software running those robot arms that fix people up | Nov 05 01:04 |
voltronw | and yet, it's dynamically typed | Nov 05 01:04 |
ender2070 | you're citing one product that might have the money to spend the time making dynamic work in such settings | Nov 05 01:05 |
voltronw | ender2070: _Hicham_: you guys may have noticed that i've said nothing about being a french pastry chef. the reason for that is that i know absolutely nothing about being a french pastry chef. strangely, this hasn't stopped either of you from talking about software development. | Nov 05 01:05 |
_Hicham_ | ? | Nov 05 01:06 |
ender2070 | voltronw - no but you can read a recipe and grasp the basic idea | Nov 05 01:06 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Look at What's New in #Mandriva 2010.0 http://ur1.ca/f5lz http://ur1.ca/f5m1 My favourit | Nov 05 01:06 | |
voltronw | ender2070: no. no you can't. | Nov 05 01:06 |
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ender2070 | voltronw - for cooking yes, its not that hard and its a bad example to compare against programming | Nov 05 01:06 |
ender2070 | you should've used a mathematician | Nov 05 01:06 |
ender2070 | art critics don't always know how to paint | Nov 05 01:07 |
ender2070 | etc | Nov 05 01:07 |
voltronw | regardless, my point stands | Nov 05 01:08 |
ender2070 | you can put me down, but Hicham knows what hes talking about | Nov 05 01:08 |
voltronw | i've yet to see any evidence of that | Nov 05 01:08 |
ender2070 | the stuff he has been saying correlates with what i've read regarding the exact same arguments on slashdot | Nov 05 01:09 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat Want More Champions, Releases #KVM Product http://ur1.ca/f5m9 http://ur1.ca/f5mc | Nov 05 01:09 | |
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voltronw | yes. slashdot comments. the highest quality source of information. | Nov 05 01:10 |
ender2070 | vs you, its the Smithsonian | Nov 05 01:10 |
_Hicham_ | voltronw : i can't get ur point with french chef | Nov 05 01:10 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu as a #GNU #Linux #Server Gets More Appeal http://ur1.ca/f5me http://ur1.ca/f5mf http://ur1.ca/f5mg | Nov 05 01:10 | |
_Hicham_ | can u be more specific ? | Nov 05 01:10 |
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ender2070 | slashdot comments, irc quotes, no difference really | Nov 05 01:10 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: the point is you don't seem to have any idea what you're talking about. you make a ridiculous, sweeping statement that is easily proven false. then you do it again. and again. | Nov 05 01:11 |
voltronw | you clearly have some very entrenched ideas about software development and language choice, yet you've arrived at these ideas with almost no basis in reality. | Nov 05 01:11 |
voltronw | it's incredible | Nov 05 01:11 |
ender2070 | read what he has actually said | Nov 05 01:11 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux Better Desktop Than #Vista7 -- Claim http://ur1.ca/f4c1 http://ur1.ca/f5mk | Nov 05 01:12 | |
ender2070 | he said he has a job doing it, and that it depends on what you're doing | Nov 05 01:12 |
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_Hicham_ | voltronw : wow, nice way to handle a discussion, i thought i was talking to someone who is listening, but ur not | Nov 05 01:12 |
voltronw | that vala is taking over the world, only novell employees use mono, and mission critical apps are never written in dynamic languages? | Nov 05 01:12 |
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ender2070 | jumping to extremes | Nov 05 01:13 |
_Hicham_ | correcting : vala is not taking over the world, never said that | Nov 05 01:13 |
_Hicham_ | u actually made things up | Nov 05 01:13 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: what did i make up? | Nov 05 01:13 |
_Hicham_ | and u jump to conclusions made up from ur head only | Nov 05 01:13 |
_Hicham_ | that vala is gonna take over the world | Nov 05 01:13 |
_Hicham_ | that only novell employees use mono | Nov 05 01:14 |
voltronw | oh, schestowitz said that | Nov 05 01:14 |
_Hicham_ | he said what ? | Nov 05 01:15 |
ender2070 | oh look, voltronw doesnt even know who he is arguing with | Nov 05 01:15 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Kubuntu #GNU #Linux 9.10 and #Ubuntu 9.10 Reviews http://ur1.ca/f5mn http://ur1.ca/f5mo http://ur1.ca/f5mp | Nov 05 01:15 | |
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voltronw | one of _Hicham_'s initial points was that mono will never have a community, which is insane to me because even if you don't like mono for whatever reason, it's impossible to declare that it wasn't adopted, developed, improved, and used by a widespread community of software developers | Nov 05 01:17 |
_Hicham_ | it is used by companies, yet | Nov 05 01:17 |
DaemonFC | http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-entertainment-features/44546-infinity-ward-nintendo-wii-fails-to-deliver-qcinematic-experienceq | Nov 05 01:18 |
voltronw | and he compared vala, which is a niche c pre processor, to c# which is one of the most popular, if not the most popular programming language in use right now | Nov 05 01:18 |
_Hicham_ | developed by people outside Novell, there might be few | Nov 05 01:18 |
_Hicham_ | I talked about the syntax | Nov 05 01:18 |
_Hicham_ | not the runtime | Nov 05 01:18 |
_Hicham_ | if u do remember | Nov 05 01:18 |
schestowitz | [01:14] <voltronw> oh, schestowitz said that | Nov 05 01:18 |
schestowitz | Nope | Nov 05 01:18 |
voltronw | confused by these statements, i was curious as to what background in software he had. i still am. | Nov 05 01:19 |
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ender2070 | someone said C# is the most popular? lol more like infamous | Nov 05 01:20 |
voltronw | ender2070: http://stackoverflow.com/tags | Nov 05 01:20 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Tags - Stack Overflow .::. Size~: 21.59 KB | Nov 05 01:20 |
schestowitz | ender2070: depends where you ask | Nov 05 01:21 |
ender2070 | exactly | Nov 05 01:21 |
ender2070 | im sure m$ heavy tech sites are gonna say c# | Nov 05 01:21 |
voltronw | what about that site is m$ heavy? it's open to anyone who's enthusiastic about software development | Nov 05 01:22 |
ender2070 | i just looked now, and thats not a good benchmark | Nov 05 01:23 |
voltronw | c# is the language that people are discussing, almost 2:1 over java | Nov 05 01:23 |
voltronw | ender2070: what's a better benchmark? | Nov 05 01:23 |
ender2070 | i dunno, not some site where people are having issues trying to figure stuff out? | Nov 05 01:23 |
ender2070 | an annoying to use language will have the most activity, due to most amount of help required | Nov 05 01:23 |
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ender2070 | first page on C# there, heres one posting: | Nov 05 01:24 |
ender2070 | "Hello, recently I have been trying my hand at coding a game in C#. I'm not using XNA for this, as I thought I would learn more if I coded the game from scratch (although I am using …" | Nov 05 01:24 |
_Hicham_ | http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html | Nov 05 01:24 |
phIRCe-local | Title: TIOBE Software: The Coding Standards Company .::. Size~: 2.93 KB | Nov 05 01:24 |
voltronw | they're choosing it to educate themselves in their spare time | Nov 05 01:25 |
ender2070 | thats not a benchmark to gauge popularity | Nov 05 01:25 |
ender2070 | as much as pagehits to distrowatch dont mean ubuntu is the best | Nov 05 01:25 |
voltronw | ender2070: how's your learn c++ in 21 days book coming? | Nov 05 01:26 |
ender2070 | slow, i've been slacking | Nov 05 01:26 |
_Hicham_ | http://langpop.com/ | Nov 05 01:26 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Programming Language Popularity .::. Size~: 39.79 KB | Nov 05 01:26 |
ender2070 | show me a site that shows more active c# projects vs others | Nov 05 01:26 |
_Hicham_ | codeplex | Nov 05 01:27 |
ender2070 | not noobs asking questions | Nov 05 01:27 |
_Hicham_ | http://www.codeplex.com | Nov 05 01:27 |
ender2070 | codeplex is too new to have a vast inventory, but it would be interesting to use years from now | Nov 05 01:27 |
ender2070 | www.sourceforge.net | Nov 05 01:28 |
_Hicham_ | Miguel is a member of CodePlex Foundation | Nov 05 01:28 |
voltronw | ender2070: if you're enthusiastic about learning programming i would highly recommend you spend a lot of time on stackoverflow. there are certainly noobs but there are also brilliant developers discussing extremely advanced topics | Nov 05 01:28 |
ender2070 | voltronw - thanks for the site, i will use it to learn but i dont think its proof that c# is more popular | Nov 05 01:28 |
ender2070 | thats all im saying | Nov 05 01:28 |
voltronw | i don't think there is proof that any language is more popular, or has more jobs posted, or has more lines of code written | Nov 05 01:29 |
voltronw | what i do think, is that i can safely say that c#, in the grand scheme of things, is slightly more important than vala | Nov 05 01:29 |
ender2070 | there was a recent poll that hinted python and another scripting lanuage were actually the most popular among those who voted | Nov 05 01:29 |
ender2070 | they hinted that people used c#/java for their jobs and used dynamic scripting lanuages in their free time | Nov 05 01:30 |
_Hicham_ | Java is probably the most popular on Corporate Environment | Nov 05 01:30 |
ender2070 | cant remember where i read that | Nov 05 01:30 |
cubezzz | C, Java and php | Nov 05 01:30 |
voltronw | until CPython can move past the GIL and py2exe and py2app get much better, python will be a toy | Nov 05 01:30 |
ender2070 | python is badass | Nov 05 01:30 |
voltronw | i'm speaking as someone who loves python, don't get me wrong | Nov 05 01:30 |
voltronw | ender2070: what features of python do you like? | Nov 05 01:31 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux Phones Make Big Leap http://bit.ly/BVhru | Nov 05 01:32 | |
voltronw | ender2070: hint: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/101268/hidden-features-of-python | Nov 05 01:32 |
voltronw | (not noobs) | Nov 05 01:32 |
ender2070 | to be honest i just like what i've read about it | Nov 05 01:32 |
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ender2070 | lol | Nov 05 01:32 |
ender2070 | im a huge noob | Nov 05 01:32 |
ender2070 | i was considering starting off with python before c++ though | Nov 05 01:32 |
cubezzz | I'm surprised Java is so popular | Nov 05 01:34 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Sony #Ericsson Shows off its #Linux #Phone http://ur1.ca/f5o7 http://ur1.ca/f5o9 http://ur1.ca/f5ob | Nov 05 01:35 | |
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cubezzz | most of the gnu stuff is C | Nov 05 01:35 |
_Hicham_ | Java is used in Corporate Environment | Nov 05 01:35 |
voltronw | ah, _Hicham_'s back with another sweeping generality | Nov 05 01:36 |
_Hicham_ | Companies still trust J2EE specs | Nov 05 01:36 |
voltronw | and another one! | Nov 05 01:36 |
ender2070 | the canadian government uses java | Nov 05 01:36 |
cubezzz | for what? | Nov 05 01:37 |
_Hicham_ | voltronw : u came here just to troll or what ? | Nov 05 01:37 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: i'm interested in the basis of the strong opinions about software that people form, and the basis for those opinions | Nov 05 01:37 |
cubezzz | well for me, C is obvious | Nov 05 01:38 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OLPC Moves to #ARM http://bit.ly/4i6FtT | Nov 05 01:38 | |
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_Hicham_ | there are no strong opinions | Nov 05 01:38 |
_Hicham_ | everyone uses what suits him best | Nov 05 01:39 |
cubezzz | sometimes there is no choice | Nov 05 01:39 |
voltronw | but without a depth of knowledge and an open mind, how can you determine what does suit you best? i would contend that you can not. | Nov 05 01:39 |
cubezzz | kernel hacking = C language | Nov 05 01:40 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Nokia Should Focus on #GNU #Linux Sub-notebooks http://ur1.ca/f5oq | Nov 05 01:40 | |
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cubezzz | but it's true, it's not practical to use only one language for everything | Nov 05 01:41 |
_Hicham_ | u don't need a deep knowlege, knowledge is already there, u just need a mind | Nov 05 01:41 |
ender2070 | cubezzz - the kernel will be mono - http://tuxradar.com/content/ubuntu-rewrite-kernel-using-mono | Nov 05 01:41 |
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_Hicham_ | every language is suitable for sthg | Nov 05 01:42 |
cubezzz | ender2070, 404 | Nov 05 01:42 |
_Hicham_ | US Air uses Ada for its defence systems | Nov 05 01:42 |
cubezzz | anyone remember APL? :) | Nov 05 01:43 |
_Hicham_ | this is thought at early courses of software engineering | Nov 05 01:43 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux Has Over 30% of GLOBAL Sub-notebooks Market and Growing http://ur1.ca/f5pt | Nov 05 01:43 | |
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ender2070 | cubezzz - the kernel will be mono - http://www.tuxradar.com/content/ubuntu-rewrite-linux-kernel-using-mono (fixed) | Nov 05 01:43 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Ubuntu to rewrite Linux kernel using Mono | TuxRadar .::. Size~: 22.65 KB | Nov 05 01:43 |
cubezzz | hahaha | Nov 05 01:44 |
voltronw | it's hard enough to have a conversation in this channel without the ridiculous bot spam | Nov 05 01:44 |
_Hicham_ | bot spam ? | Nov 05 01:44 |
voltronw | seems to add absolutely nothing to the channel | Nov 05 01:44 |
_Hicham_ | hahahahaha | Nov 05 01:44 |
voltronw | the auto posted links | Nov 05 01:44 |
cubezzz | yeah, I can't argue | Nov 05 01:44 |
cubezzz | at least use a different colour | Nov 05 01:45 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How Non-Free Software Poisons #Freedom http://bit.ly/4sdBhE | Nov 05 01:45 | |
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_Hicham_ | yes, Canonical is gonna rewrite the kernel using Mono, hahahahahahahaha, seen it in April Fool's day | Nov 05 01:45 |
_Hicham_ | good joke from the site, i liked it at the time | Nov 05 01:46 |
ender2070 | hehehe | Nov 05 01:46 |
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voltronw | _Hicham_: actually, there's SharpOS which is an open source, ground up managed operating system. and Singularity, which was a microsoft research project towards the same goal | Nov 05 01:46 |
DaemonFC | http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10390515-37.html | Nov 05 01:46 |
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cubezzz | well, even Stallman makes the point there will always be some closed software | Nov 05 01:47 |
schestowitz | gn for now | Nov 05 01:47 |
ender2070 | to be honest singularity ended up being useless iirc | Nov 05 01:47 |
_Hicham_ | there are a lot of projects like that | Nov 05 01:47 |
ender2070 | sharpos has been stagnant | Nov 05 01:47 |
ender2070 | nobody wants to write an "unsafe kernel" according to wikipedia | Nov 05 01:48 |
_Hicham_ | what matters for now is the linux kernel | Nov 05 01:48 |
voltronw | right, as opposed to all those research OSs that are making millions of dollars within 6 months of being started | Nov 05 01:48 |
_Hicham_ | more and more companies and people are contributing to uit | Nov 05 01:48 |
_Hicham_ | *it | Nov 05 01:48 |
ender2070 | voltronw - if MSFT was going to use it, why release the code everywhere? | Nov 05 01:48 |
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voltronw | it was an r&d project | Nov 05 01:49 |
cubezzz | SharpOS's mascot is a shark? | Nov 05 01:49 |
cubezzz | anyway, I don't like the look of C# | Nov 05 01:49 |
voltronw | the look of it? what does it look like? | Nov 05 01:50 |
cubezzz | a microsoft invention, why would I want that? | Nov 05 01:50 |
voltronw | i dunno, i owned an acura car, puma sneakers, and levi jeans, why would i want those things? | Nov 05 01:51 |
voltronw | i'll tell you why, they won't let me in restaurants without pants and shoes | Nov 05 01:51 |
ender2070 | lol but we dont require c# | Nov 05 01:52 |
ender2070 | how is that the same | Nov 05 01:52 |
_Hicham_ | because they won't let him into Microsoft ( maybe ) without C# | Nov 05 01:53 |
_Hicham_ | isn't voltronw ? | Nov 05 01:53 |
voltronw | it was just a joke | Nov 05 01:53 |
voltronw | let's say that microsoft developed something that was great, it was the best, by far | Nov 05 01:53 |
voltronw | not necessarily c#, something imaginary | Nov 05 01:53 |
cubezzz | doesn't matter | Nov 05 01:54 |
voltronw | it would be foolish to judge that negatively based on the source | Nov 05 01:54 |
_Hicham_ | IE | Nov 05 01:54 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] New Blog Post - The Multi-Stream Widget Based Thingy | The Digital Prism http://tinyurl.com/ye9stbo | Nov 05 01:54 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: The Multi-Stream Widget Based Thingy | The Digital Prism .::. Size~: 13.46 KB | Nov 05 01:54 |
ender2070 | are we not allowed to dislike brands? | Nov 05 01:54 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: isn't what? i don't work with microsoft | Nov 05 01:54 |
cubezzz | I know Microsoft's record very well and I choose not to support them | Nov 05 01:54 |
_Hicham_ | why do u support C# then ? | Nov 05 01:54 |
voltronw | you're definitely allowed to dislike brands, i dislike a ton of brands, microsoft being one of them | Nov 05 01:54 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: i think it has a chance to be a really powerful, useful language | Nov 05 01:55 |
ender2070 | for some of us its branding | Nov 05 01:55 |
voltronw | i was attracted to this channel to hear arguments about why it might not be | Nov 05 01:55 |
cubezzz | look at Microsoft's upper management | Nov 05 01:55 |
voltronw | so i can make an informed decision | Nov 05 01:55 |
cubezzz | enough said | Nov 05 01:55 |
cubezzz | voltronw, I used to use Microsoft in the 80's | Nov 05 01:56 |
ender2070 | a lot of people dislike microsoft as a brand because of their history and wouldn't want to use their products | Nov 05 01:56 |
cubezzz | before I understood what they were trying to do, e.g. take over the world's computers | Nov 05 01:56 |
voltronw | ender2070: i liked microsoft encarta for mac when i was a kid, and i like the ms ergonomic keyboard | Nov 05 01:56 |
ender2070 | i started off with ms-dos and win 3.11 | Nov 05 01:57 |
voltronw | i'll be honest | Nov 05 01:57 |
_Hicham_ | i dislike C# because it is an ugly Java clone | Nov 05 01:57 |
voltronw | i've never owned a windows machine though | Nov 05 01:57 |
_Hicham_ | MS started .NET to counter Java | Nov 05 01:57 |
_Hicham_ | when Sun retrieved the licence to use Java's code from then | Nov 05 01:57 |
_Hicham_ | *them | Nov 05 01:57 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: often times languages will borrow features from previous languages and improve on the previous language. you do know why c is called c, right? | Nov 05 01:57 |
cubezzz | voltronw, yes | Nov 05 01:58 |
voltronw | there are technical and business aspects, of course | Nov 05 01:58 |
_Hicham_ | improve, not clone | Nov 05 01:58 |
cubezzz | we are suspicious of Microsoft though | Nov 05 01:58 |
ender2070 | java and c# are allegedly quite similar, why give a brand you don't like an advantage | Nov 05 01:58 |
voltronw | cubezzz: i am as suspicious of microsoft as anyone | Nov 05 01:58 |
voltronw | also, is it cool if i say "microsoft" or do i have to say "m$" | Nov 05 01:58 |
_Hicham_ | at least for Java, we have the source | Nov 05 01:58 |
cubezzz | before, I just thought of Microsoft as another company | Nov 05 01:59 |
cubezzz | neutral | Nov 05 01:59 |
cubezzz | now I actively avoid Microsoft | Nov 05 01:59 |
ender2070 | mono could have done things differently too | Nov 05 02:00 |
cubezzz | all the FUD, and they use the word FUD right in their emails | Nov 05 02:00 |
cubezzz | FUD from Microsoft mostly | Nov 05 02:00 |
voltronw | that's the other thing | Nov 05 02:01 |
voltronw | mono was was Free, GPL Free long before java | Nov 05 02:01 |
ender2070 | mono has non ecma parts still | Nov 05 02:01 |
voltronw | there's no more credible threat to mono from patents than there are to hundreds of other pieces of software on my computer right now | Nov 05 02:01 |
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voltronw | i'm tired of people cowering in fear from microsoft wrt mono | Nov 05 02:02 |
_Hicham_ | what other pieces do u have ? | Nov 05 02:02 |
voltronw | this could be the tool we use to break microsoft, but you guys all want to hide under the table because of patents | Nov 05 02:02 |
voltronw | it's pathetic | Nov 05 02:02 |
_Hicham_ | we are not hiding under the table | Nov 05 02:02 |
_Hicham_ | these are facts | Nov 05 02:02 |
cubezzz | no, I don't know enough about it yet voltronw | Nov 05 02:02 |
ender2070 | voltronw - if it was a tool to break microsoft, it wouldn't be playing catchup it would deliberately be breaking compatibility with .NET | Nov 05 02:03 |
cubezzz | but I am careful | Nov 05 02:03 |
voltronw | ender2070: the "playing catchup" line is a myth | Nov 05 02:03 |
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ender2070 | they should revert back to ECMA, stop copying msft and go from there making something better than .NET | Nov 05 02:03 |
_Hicham_ | .NET is not ECMA compliant | Nov 05 02:04 |
voltronw | i would like to see more poeple using linux than windows | Nov 05 02:04 |
voltronw | you guys agree with that? | Nov 05 02:04 |
ender2070 | yes | Nov 05 02:04 |
voltronw | a mono winforms implementation is a tool that can help that | Nov 05 02:04 |
ender2070 | it goes both ways though with c# | Nov 05 02:05 |
ender2070 | why use linux when all the good oss apps are for windows | Nov 05 02:05 |
ender2070 | for the average joe | Nov 05 02:05 |
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voltronw | ender2070: so you think apps like firefox shouldn't release windows versions? | Nov 05 02:05 |
_Hicham_ | using mono on Linux won't bring more people to it | Nov 05 02:05 |
voltronw | doesn't it seem better to say "if you switch away from windows, you can still keep these application you're familiar with" | Nov 05 02:05 |
ender2070 | well i mean it works both ways | Nov 05 02:06 |
_Hicham_ | releasing software for windows isn't about migrating | Nov 05 02:06 |
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_Hicham_ | when u release software for Windows, u have a large user base | Nov 05 02:06 |
_Hicham_ | which eases its adoption | Nov 05 02:06 |
DaemonFC | http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/11/zeos-personal-sleep-coach-makes-money-from-your-insomnia/ | Nov 05 02:07 |
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_Hicham_ | I have put a software on Softpedia on two versions, one for Linux, and one for Windows | Nov 05 02:07 |
_Hicham_ | the Windows version was download more than three times than the linux version | Nov 05 02:07 |
_Hicham_ | so u can see that releasing software for Windows is beneficial for the software developer | Nov 05 02:08 |
_Hicham_ | plus, some users still do have to use Windows ( for a bunch of reasons ), though they support Linux | Nov 05 02:09 |
_Hicham_ | so u can't deprave them from FOSS apps | Nov 05 02:09 |
ender2070 | i agree, i just dont agree its for migration | Nov 05 02:09 |
_Hicham_ | another reason is that FOSS apps are generally cross-platform by design since they use cross platform toolkits | Nov 05 02:10 |
ender2070 | firefox hasn't improved linux's numbers | Nov 05 02:10 |
cubezzz | I don't go around and say "Linux is the only way" :) | Nov 05 02:10 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: what software? | Nov 05 02:10 |
cubezzz | I just prefer it | Nov 05 02:10 |
_Hicham_ | voltronw : a pre-alpha software, let me find the link | Nov 05 02:10 |
_Hicham_ | voltronw : here is the windows version, http://www.softpedia.com/get/Security/Encrypting/Advanced-AES-Encrypter.shtml | Nov 05 02:11 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Download Advanced AES Encrypter 0.0.1 - A utility to encrypt/decrypt files using AES (Advanced Encryption Standard) - Softpedia .::. Size~: 54.01 KB | Nov 05 02:11 |
ender2070 | does monodevelop for windows still use .net instead of mono itself | Nov 05 02:12 |
_Hicham_ | voltronw : and here is linux one : http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Security/Advanced-AES-Encrypter-38691.shtml | Nov 05 02:12 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Download Advanced AES Encrypter 0.0.1 for Linux - Advanced AES Encrypter is a small application created to encrypt/decrypt files using AES (Advanced Encryption Standard). - Softpedia .::. Size~: 49.84 KB | Nov 05 02:12 |
cubezzz | people do get used to certain things and it takes a lot of energy to change | Nov 05 02:13 |
_Hicham_ | yes, that argument is true cubezzz | Nov 05 02:13 |
_Hicham_ | people are basically against change | Nov 05 02:13 |
cubezzz | I started with CP/M for operating system | Nov 05 02:14 |
cubezzz | then MS DOS, Venix, Xenix, Unix System V, AmigaDOS, win95, win98, win2k, Linux | Nov 05 02:15 |
ender2070 | I started with MS-DOS and 3.11 | Nov 05 02:15 |
cubezzz | oh and around the year 1998 I tried BeOS :) | Nov 05 02:16 |
ender2070 | same :) | Nov 05 02:16 |
ender2070 | i ran win95,98,2k, then linux | Nov 05 02:16 |
_Hicham_ | i started with mandrake | Nov 05 02:16 |
ender2070 | i was dual booting 2k with redhat 5.2 tho | Nov 05 02:16 |
ender2070 | kernel 2.4 | Nov 05 02:16 |
ender2070 | reiserfs hype | Nov 05 02:16 |
cubezzz | I tried to switch to Linux in 1994 actually | Nov 05 02:17 |
_Hicham_ | was excited to use it | Nov 05 02:17 |
cubezzz | but didn't stick with it :-/ | Nov 05 02:17 |
ender2070 | i liked mandrake when it was a redhat derivitive | Nov 05 02:17 |
ender2070 | as for linux i've been around more than hilton | Nov 05 02:17 |
ender2070 | redhat, suse, mandrake,slackware, gentoo, ubuntu, fedora (current) | Nov 05 02:18 |
cubezzz | to be specific I use FC1, Fedora 11 and Embedix | Nov 05 02:18 |
cubezzz | so basically all Linux | Nov 05 02:19 |
ender2070 | fedora core 1? | Nov 05 02:19 |
cubezzz | yes | Nov 05 02:19 |
ender2070 | holy | Nov 05 02:19 |
ender2070 | why | Nov 05 02:19 |
ender2070 | you must have a good reason | Nov 05 02:19 |
cubezzz | because I know it very well and I use it as a server | Nov 05 02:19 |
cubezzz | parts are updated, but not kernel | Nov 05 02:19 |
ender2070 | hmm impressive | Nov 05 02:20 |
ender2070 | well at least ur not still stuck on redhat 9 | Nov 05 02:20 |
cubezzz | I have Fedora boxes all over the place | Nov 05 02:20 |
cubezzz | right beside me is F11 | Nov 05 02:21 |
ender2070 | I am testing F12 on my notebook atm | Nov 05 02:21 |
ender2070 | F11 on this machine | Nov 05 02:21 |
ender2070 | KDE4 is my desktop | Nov 05 02:22 |
_Hicham_ | im now on F12 | Nov 05 02:23 |
ender2070 | im waiting for F12 RC before i use it here | Nov 05 02:23 |
_Hicham_ | it works great for me | Nov 05 02:23 |
ender2070 | im sure it does | Nov 05 02:24 |
ender2070 | runs nicely on my notebook | Nov 05 02:25 |
ender2070 | RC is supposed to be out today, thats why im waiting | Nov 05 02:25 |
DaemonFC | http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/11/october-2009-browser-stats-firefox-finally-passes-ie6.ars | Nov 05 02:27 |
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ender2070 | lol | Nov 05 02:27 |
ender2070 | never underestimate the stubbornness of some people | Nov 05 02:27 |
ender2070 | to never upgrade | Nov 05 02:27 |
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_Hicham_ | i tried rawhide before alpha release | Nov 05 02:45 |
_Hicham_ | it was very unstable | Nov 05 02:45 |
_Hicham_ | tried then the alpha, same stability problems, filed some bugs | Nov 05 02:45 |
_Hicham_ | then tried Beta, and it works | Nov 05 02:46 |
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_Hicham_ | where is voltroll ? | Nov 05 02:48 |
voltronw | _Hicham_: right here man, please don't call me a troll because i disagree with you and actually have real world software development experience | Nov 05 02:49 |
_Hicham_ | i am sorry, didn't mean to offend u | Nov 05 02:49 |
_Hicham_ | u r talking as being the only one having software development experience | Nov 05 02:50 |
ender2070 | we can all be trolls sometimes | Nov 05 02:53 |
voltronw | ender2070: yeah, but only you edit your blog after the fact to attempt to try to hide the evidence | Nov 05 02:54 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : why r u silent ? | Nov 05 03:04 |
DaemonFC | because I'm deadly too | Nov 05 03:04 |
_Hicham_ | r u working on sthg ? | Nov 05 03:05 |
ender2070 | voltronw - I can undelete those entries at any time, i assumed removing them would show lefty enough good will for him to leave me alone | Nov 05 03:06 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_, Not really | Nov 05 03:06 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : testing a new kernel ? | Nov 05 03:07 |
DaemonFC | nope | Nov 05 03:07 |
ender2070 | voltronw - i trolled him for a few days, and as a result he is still trolling my blog | Nov 05 03:07 |
voltronw | ender2070: you know that potential employers are going to google your name right? that's the first thing they're going to see. | Nov 05 03:08 |
voltronw | everything he posted seems to be a matter of public record | Nov 05 03:09 |
ender2070 | they are going to see my pseudoname | Nov 05 03:10 |
ender2070 | which won't be on my resume | Nov 05 03:10 |
voltronw | ender2070: so when i whois you on irc, the name i see listed as your real name isn't your legal name? | Nov 05 03:10 |
ender2070 | not at all | Nov 05 03:11 |
voltronw | i'm relieved for you, in that case | Nov 05 03:11 |
ender2070 | first rule of internet 101 | Nov 05 03:12 |
ender2070 | never give out your real name | Nov 05 03:12 |
*voltronw shrugs | Nov 05 03:12 | |
voltronw | my rule 101 is not to say anything stupid or untrue | Nov 05 03:12 |
voltronw | also, i would have picked a cooler fake name | Nov 05 03:13 |
ender2070 | i'll give you half true | Nov 05 03:13 |
voltronw | "dash smashington" or something | Nov 05 03:13 |
ender2070 | i don't have roy's fantastic memory | Nov 05 03:13 |
ender2070 | when I argue I often can't remember where i got my facts | Nov 05 03:13 |
ender2070 | i read so much stuff | Nov 05 03:14 |
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ender2070 | slashdot, osnews, distrowatch cover so many sources its hard to keep track | Nov 05 03:17 |
voltronw | what does this get you in the end? that's all wasted time that you could be using to develop skills | Nov 05 03:18 |
voltronw | you could be making that news, but instead you're just consuming it | Nov 05 03:18 |
ender2070 | voltronw - correct, which is why i gave up the trolling | Nov 05 03:18 |
voltronw | install leechblock and learn python, if that's what you want to do | Nov 05 03:18 |
ender2070 | leechblock? | Nov 05 03:18 |
ender2070 | oh well | Nov 05 03:19 |
ender2070 | lol | Nov 05 03:19 |
ender2070 | voltronw - good addon, ty | Nov 05 03:19 |
ender2070 | brb | Nov 05 03:20 |
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Ender2070 | voltronw - what was that site you linked earlier with the programming languages? | Nov 05 03:29 |
Ender2070 | voltronw - the one I said isn't a good benchmark for popularity contests | Nov 05 03:30 |
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Ender2070 | hey everyone | Nov 05 03:43 |
Ender2070 | I tried to get back but the server netsplitted | Nov 05 03:43 |
Ender2070 | voltronw - did you get my irc message asking about that site | Nov 05 03:49 |
voltronw | no | Nov 05 03:50 |
Ender2070 | voltronw - what was that coding site you used as an example? | Nov 05 03:50 |
Ender2070 | I thought I bookmarked it but xmarks didnt sync fast enough | Nov 05 03:50 |
voltronw | stackoverflow.com | Nov 05 03:50 |
Ender2070 | ty | Nov 05 03:51 |
voltronw | how do you like xmarks | Nov 05 03:51 |
Ender2070 | very handy | Nov 05 03:51 |
Ender2070 | I reformat a lot and bookmarks is always something i overlook | Nov 05 03:52 |
voltronw | yeah, i actually word for a file synchronization company, i'd love us to get better about handling app-specific data | Nov 05 03:52 |
voltronw | s/word/work/ | Nov 05 03:52 |
Ender2070 | delicious also has such a tool for firefox | Nov 05 03:52 |
Ender2070 | theirs is annoying because if you clear your cookies it looses the login info | Nov 05 03:53 |
Ender2070 | lose* | Nov 05 03:56 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[d235j] RT @gruber: Think about how hard it is to beat umps this crooked. | Nov 05 04:20 | |
Ender2070 | is uncyclopedia a version of wikipedia without moderators? | Nov 05 04:22 |
Ender2070 | mt | Nov 05 04:22 |
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DaemonFC | schestowitz, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/04/naked_win7_security/ | Nov 05 05:44 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Naked Win 7 still vulnerable to most viruses • The Register .::. Size~: 30.33 KB | Nov 05 05:44 |
DaemonFC | "Out-of-the-box Windows 7 machines are still vulnerable to eight out of ten viruses, according to a test by security firm Sophos." | Nov 05 05:44 |
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DaemonFC | http://www.trustedreviews.com/mp3/news/2009/11/05/MSN-Music-Returns-With-Download---Streaming-Services/p1 | Nov 05 05:47 |
phIRCe-local | Title: MSN Music Returns With Download & Streaming Services - MP3 News - TrustedReviews .::. Size~: 24.61 KB | Nov 05 05:47 |
DaemonFC | MSN Music resurrected, no DRM this time | Nov 05 05:47 |
_Hicham_ | great | Nov 05 05:48 |
_Hicham_ | u wont go to jail | Nov 05 05:48 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_, I wonder if they'll try to be a WMA store | Nov 05 05:48 |
DaemonFC | or if they learned that lesson too | Nov 05 05:48 |
_Hicham_ | DRM is used by a lot of companies | Nov 05 05:49 |
_Hicham_ | copyright laws forces them to do so | Nov 05 05:49 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_, BOHICA | Nov 05 05:54 |
DaemonFC | Bend Over, Here It Comes Again | Nov 05 05:55 |
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_Hicham_ | I don't care about this laws as long as we can everything in here for $1 or less | Nov 05 05:56 |
_Hicham_ | there is no drm for us | Nov 05 05:56 |
_Hicham_ | vive freedom | Nov 05 05:56 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : still playing sauerbraten? | Nov 05 05:59 |
DaemonFC | sometimes | Nov 05 05:59 |
_Hicham_ | so ur a FPS gamer only ? | Nov 05 06:00 |
_Hicham_ | no stealth games ? | Nov 05 06:00 |
DaemonFC | not really | Nov 05 06:00 |
DaemonFC | I used to play RPGs til they ruined all of them | Nov 05 06:00 |
DaemonFC | or turned them into some online cash whore | Nov 05 06:00 |
DaemonFC | KOTOR and KOTOR II were the last passable RPGs I've played | Nov 05 06:01 |
_Hicham_ | did u try nexuiz ? | Nov 05 06:01 |
DaemonFC | yeah | Nov 05 06:01 |
_Hicham_ | what games did u like, from all the family of games available on Linux? | Nov 05 06:02 |
DaemonFC | I think you named all two of them | Nov 05 06:02 |
DaemonFC | there's really not a lot on Linux | Nov 05 06:03 |
DaemonFC | There's a couple ports, but those tend to run slower than the Windows version in Wine | Nov 05 06:03 |
DaemonFC | I'm not saying that's a Linux problem, it's just what you get when someone makes a halfassed port | Nov 05 06:03 |
DaemonFC | DOOM 3 was a great example of a port gone wrong | Nov 05 06:04 |
_Hicham_ | there is urban terror | Nov 05 06:04 |
_Hicham_ | alien arena | Nov 05 06:04 |
DaemonFC | Wine and the Windows version of it ran at least 10% faster than the native Linux client | Nov 05 06:04 |
DaemonFC | the only reason you would ever want to run most of these Linux ports natively is so that they (might) recognize your stuff, like gamepad or microphone a little easier | Nov 05 06:05 |
Ender2070 | www.wesnoth.org | Nov 05 06:05 |
DaemonFC | you can tell that Linux was a distant third priority for a lot of the stuff that has been ported | Nov 05 06:05 |
DaemonFC | It makes Linux look bad when the Windows version is running rings around it even if it's the developer's fault | Nov 05 06:06 |
DaemonFC | they really go through and optimize their Windows client, in some ways I don't even think that is possible with Linux | Nov 05 06:06 |
Ender2070 | gallium3d will change that | Nov 05 06:06 |
_Hicham_ | the port isn't as good as the original version, usually | Nov 05 06:07 |
DaemonFC | cause you have to reduce everything to the oldest or buggiest version of any package or library anyone out there is likely to have, that you're linking to | Nov 05 06:07 |
_Hicham_ | MSVC can optimize more on Windows | Nov 05 06:07 |
DaemonFC | exactly, there's usually only one version of one library you need to link to on Windows | Nov 05 06:07 |
DaemonFC | everyone who has Windows has it | Nov 05 06:07 |
DaemonFC | and you're done | Nov 05 06:07 |
Ender2070 | the windows library gets updated rarely | Nov 05 06:08 |
Ender2070 | thats also bad at the same time | Nov 05 06:08 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070, They get updated, but you just don't see it usually | Nov 05 06:08 |
DaemonFC | a lot of Windows functionality is kind of a "sandwich" | Nov 05 06:09 |
Ender2070 | how many games worked from xp to vista with no issues | Nov 05 06:10 |
Ender2070 | they break api too, it just takes them longer because they are slow | Nov 05 06:10 |
DaemonFC | You run Windows 7, you have DirectX 11, but all your DirectX 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, and 5 stuff still works | Nov 05 06:10 |
Ender2070 | tell me why sins of a solar empire crashes | Nov 05 06:10 |
Ender2070 | and not on vista | Nov 05 06:10 |
DaemonFC | and maybe even some earlier stuff | Nov 05 06:10 |
DaemonFC | rare exception | Nov 05 06:10 |
Ender2070 | theres a lot of them | Nov 05 06:10 |
DaemonFC | bitch at them to hurry up with the patch | Nov 05 06:10 |
Ender2070 | me and you run the latest shit, but a lot of people dont | Nov 05 06:10 |
DaemonFC | try the app compatibility wizard | Nov 05 06:10 |
Ender2070 | i dont care enough about video games | Nov 05 06:10 |
_Hicham_ | I make a software prototype using OpenGL to render some 3D graphics. MSVC executable was like 10 faster than gcc's one | Nov 05 06:11 |
_Hicham_ | so, it is a question of optimization also | Nov 05 06:11 |
_Hicham_ | the compiler plays a big role in that | Nov 05 06:11 |
_Hicham_ | hopefully, gcc-4.5 will have Link Time Optimization | Nov 05 06:11 |
_Hicham_ | which will greatly improve programs performance | Nov 05 06:11 |
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Ender2070 | however at the same time you should look into gallium3d | Nov 05 06:11 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070, I have Windows 95 software that still works on Windows 7 | Nov 05 06:12 |
Ender2070 | yes and most of my stuff works fine too on win7 rc | Nov 05 06:12 |
DaemonFC | I've only ran into a few problems, but nothing that just would not work no matter what I did | Nov 05 06:12 |
Ender2070 | most stuff works | Nov 05 06:12 |
Ender2070 | rare programs dont | Nov 05 06:12 |
DaemonFC | I don't doubt that there's some stuff out there that just won't run, but I don't seem to have any | Nov 05 06:13 |
DaemonFC | I even installed MS Office 95 just for the hell of it | Nov 05 06:13 |
Ender2070 | especially programs where they used secret api's that microsoft didnt tell anyone about, they often change those a lot | Nov 05 06:13 |
DaemonFC | it's dangerous to depend on those | Nov 05 06:13 |
Ender2070 | yes but some devs are just stupid | Nov 05 06:13 |
DaemonFC | I wouldn't use them on any software I wanted to live longer than that Windows release | Nov 05 06:13 |
Ender2070 | because theres some software out there like that | Nov 05 06:13 |
Ender2070 | my gaming box hardly ever gets turned on | Nov 05 06:14 |
DaemonFC | like I said, bad idea to use undocumented API | Nov 05 06:14 |
DaemonFC | Google Chrome does it | Nov 05 06:14 |
Ender2070 | yeah | Nov 05 06:15 |
Ender2070 | i dont know why they do th at | Nov 05 06:15 |
DaemonFC | they even reverse engineered kernel32.dll in Vista | Nov 05 06:15 |
DaemonFC | that led to a minor scandal | Nov 05 06:15 |
Ender2070 | they probably wanted to find out how IE cheats at loading so fast | Nov 05 06:15 |
Ender2070 | lol | Nov 05 06:15 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070, I think they said that they wanted to use some security features IE was hooking into that Microsoft left undocumented | Nov 05 06:15 |
DaemonFC | relating to Protected Mode | Nov 05 06:16 |
Ender2070 | hmm | Nov 05 06:16 |
Ender2070 | i wonder if that wasnt really just for chrome frame | Nov 05 06:16 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070, IE loads faster than the others, but once it's up, it loads pages 5-6 times slower | Nov 05 06:16 |
DaemonFC | and sometimes chokes halfway through rendering one | Nov 05 06:16 |
Ender2070 | ahhh | Nov 05 06:16 |
Ender2070 | thanks for letting me know | Nov 05 06:16 |
Ender2070 | havent used IE in years | Nov 05 06:16 |
DaemonFC | so it's a horrible browser, they just preloaded an instance on system startup | Nov 05 06:17 |
Ender2070 | i wonder what norton will do | Nov 05 06:17 |
Ender2070 | you can actually remove IE from win7 | Nov 05 06:17 |
DaemonFC | any browser could do that, but IE obviously is using dlls that are loaded already anyway | Nov 05 06:17 |
Ender2070 | norton's gui is IE based, very cleverly hidden | Nov 05 06:17 |
DaemonFC | so you don't see your memory usage increase all that much | Nov 05 06:17 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070, Meh, there's no reason to | Nov 05 06:18 |
DaemonFC | all the security vulnerabilities are still there | Nov 05 06:18 |
Ender2070 | i've removed it from my gaming box | Nov 05 06:18 |
DaemonFC | why not leave the browser? | Nov 05 06:18 |
Ender2070 | i simply dont want that bullshit even installed | Nov 05 06:18 |
DaemonFC | the IE engine is still loaded | Nov 05 06:18 |
Ender2070 | nope | Nov 05 06:18 |
Ender2070 | not in win7 | Nov 05 06:18 |
DaemonFC | the shell uses it, Windows Live Messenger uses it | Nov 05 06:18 |
Ender2070 | if you remove it, the engine disappears | Nov 05 06:19 |
Ender2070 | oh really? | Nov 05 06:19 |
DaemonFC | without IE installed, open WLM | Nov 05 06:19 |
Ender2070 | perhaps only MS can use it | Nov 05 06:19 |
DaemonFC | and then look in task manager | Nov 05 06:19 |
DaemonFC | nope | Nov 05 06:19 |
Ender2070 | world of warcraft launcher was broken | Nov 05 06:19 |
Ender2070 | no IE elements | Nov 05 06:19 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070, There's a lot of third party browsers that can use IE's engine even if IE is "removed" | Nov 05 06:19 |
DaemonFC | Winamp can use it | Nov 05 06:19 |
DaemonFC | so can Maxthon browser | Nov 05 06:19 |
Ender2070 | damn | Nov 05 06:19 |
Ender2070 | i was excited that i finally got my wish | Nov 05 06:20 |
Ender2070 | but i didnt | Nov 05 06:20 |
DaemonFC | 99.9% of IE is there and loaded even if you "remove" the browser | Nov 05 06:20 |
Ender2070 | are you speaking of experience? | Nov 05 06:20 |
DaemonFC | it's not worth taking IE out because you still get all the disadvantages IE brings without being able to load it in a pinch if something needs it | Nov 05 06:20 |
Ender2070 | when I took IE out, any app that tried to force IE open failed | Nov 05 06:21 |
Ender2070 | which i liked | Nov 05 06:21 |
Ender2070 | cause wow launcher always invokes IE, even if firefox is default | Nov 05 06:21 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070, Yeah, that part will happen | Nov 05 06:21 |
Ender2070 | other apps invoke IE too when I dont want it EVER to open | Nov 05 06:21 |
DaemonFC | nothing can load IE as IE, but anything can embed Trident | Nov 05 06:21 |
Ender2070 | hmm | Nov 05 06:22 |
Ender2070 | well its not too important | Nov 05 06:22 |
Ender2070 | as I said, my gaming box hardly gets turned on | Nov 05 06:22 |
DaemonFC | I used to remove IE totally from Windows 98/Me | Nov 05 06:22 |
DaemonFC | and jsut find a different browser to use | Nov 05 06:22 |
Ender2070 | still running the free win7 from the summer | Nov 05 06:22 |
DaemonFC | now so damned many things embed it, that it's not really possible to kill it | Nov 05 06:22 |
Ender2070 | i was hoping microsoft was gonna do that | Nov 05 06:23 |
DaemonFC | I have the RTM version | Nov 05 06:23 |
Ender2070 | for the good of all | Nov 05 06:23 |
DaemonFC | I got the RTM version on July 24 | Nov 05 06:23 |
Ender2070 | im not giving microsoft my money | Nov 05 06:23 |
Ender2070 | and im not pirating it | Nov 05 06:23 |
DaemonFC | but that PC died, this one came with the system | Nov 05 06:23 |
DaemonFC | actually Vista did, but the Windows 7 disc was free | Nov 05 06:23 |
DaemonFC | so it got here on Oct 23, a day after it launched | Nov 05 06:24 |
Ender2070 | my dell notebook doesnt even have a windows license | Nov 05 06:24 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070, It's just a simple BIOS modification | Nov 05 06:24 |
Ender2070 | i got an ubuntu notebook | Nov 05 06:24 |
Ender2070 | DaemonFC - im not a pirate | Nov 05 06:24 |
DaemonFC | meh | Nov 05 06:25 |
DaemonFC | I've paid Microsoft for too much already really | Nov 05 06:25 |
Ender2070 | they got one xp license out of me, for an earlier dell notebook i purchased | Nov 05 06:25 |
Ender2070 | back when all notebooks had windows | Nov 05 06:25 |
Ender2070 | my mom has it now, with xp | Nov 05 06:26 |
Ender2070 | oh, I also got a vintage windows 3.11 license and ms-dos 6.22 license | Nov 05 06:26 |
Ender2070 | I got them shipped to me for a gmail invitation a few years back | Nov 05 06:26 |
Ender2070 | the floppies are still shrink wrapped | Nov 05 06:27 |
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DaemonFC | http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q138349/ | Nov 05 06:42 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Windows 95 Installation Requirements .::. Size~: 38.37 KB | Nov 05 06:42 |
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cubezzz | lol, 4 megs | Nov 05 06:44 |
DaemonFC | http://www.trustprice.com/554655/microsoft-microsoft-windows-95.html | Nov 05 06:44 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft Microsoft Windows 95 OSR 2.0 OEM (Microsoft A23-00021) : TRUSTprice .::. Size~: 16.54 KB | Nov 05 06:44 |
DaemonFC | http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/win7 | Nov 05 06:45 |
cubezzz | well, at least O'Reilly gets to sell more books | Nov 05 06:47 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070, The difference between Windows 95 and 7 as far as I can tell.... | Nov 05 06:47 |
DaemonFC | 95 (at the time) felt new and powerful | Nov 05 06:47 |
DaemonFC | 7 just feels like they pulled Vista out of the recycle bin | Nov 05 06:47 |
DaemonFC | :) | Nov 05 06:47 |
DaemonFC | my aunt asked me about Windows 7 and I told her it's not worth buying the upgrade | Nov 05 06:49 |
DaemonFC | just wait til it comes with a new computer anyway | Nov 05 06:49 |
cubezzz | I'm glad to be out of it | Nov 05 06:50 |
DaemonFC | upgrade discs are kind of a relic from when a PC was much more expensive | Nov 05 06:50 |
DaemonFC | all said, I think Windows 7 should have been like $30-40 | Nov 05 06:51 |
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DaemonFC | like Windows 98 SE or Windows Me Promo Step Up (for Win 98 users) | Nov 05 06:51 |
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cubezzz | sounds awful | Nov 05 06:53 |
DaemonFC | it's just not a full upgrade over Vista | Nov 05 06:55 |
cubezzz | it does show me something about Fatalism though | Nov 05 06:55 |
DaemonFC | they got away with charging obscene upgrade prices for 95-XP for various reasons | Nov 05 06:55 |
DaemonFC | computers were expensive, they had no credible competition | Nov 05 06:56 |
DaemonFC | and 95 and XP were something new | Nov 05 06:56 |
DaemonFC | more or less anyway | Nov 05 06:56 |
cubezzz | in 1995 there was Linux, BSD, BeOS | Nov 05 07:00 |
cubezzz | also GeoWorks Ensemble | Nov 05 07:00 |
DaemonFC | like I said, no credible competition, especially where Linux was back then | Nov 05 07:01 |
DaemonFC | BeOS was already on the road to nowhere | Nov 05 07:01 |
cubezzz | and I'm bound to say OS/2 warp | Nov 05 07:01 |
DaemonFC | BSD is still not something most humans want to use on a desktop | Nov 05 07:01 |
DaemonFC | OS/2 Warp fell apart | Nov 05 07:01 |
DaemonFC | Ensemble? Are you kidding? | Nov 05 07:01 |
DaemonFC | B-) | Nov 05 07:01 |
DaemonFC | The Mac? Maybe kinda sorta. Probably not. | Nov 05 07:02 |
cubezzz | only because you're so fixated on Microsoft | Nov 05 07:02 |
DaemonFC | cubezzz, Maybe I don't like to pay double what a computer should cost, only to have them change architectures 2-3 years out and fuck me over | Nov 05 07:03 |
cubezzz | I'm not suggesting you use Mac | Nov 05 07:03 |
cubezzz | I'm merely pointing out the alternatives | Nov 05 07:03 |
DaemonFC | cubezzz, If you bought a Mac in 1995, it would very likely have been a Motorola 68k in it | Nov 05 07:03 |
DaemonFC | PPC didn't start until like 1996 | Nov 05 07:03 |
DaemonFC | then everyone who bought into that got the OS ripped out from underneath them in 2000 for a (then) buggy and incomplete OS X | Nov 05 07:04 |
DaemonFC | after that was out of the way, 5 years later, Apple transitions to x86 after making fun of it for years | Nov 05 07:04 |
DaemonFC | and suddenly x86 is the best thing ever | Nov 05 07:05 |
DaemonFC | better than sex | Nov 05 07:05 |
cubezzz | Sun4's in the late 80's were far better than any windows 95 PC | Nov 05 07:05 |
cubezzz | but probably not very affordable | Nov 05 07:05 |
DaemonFC | Apple's track record says you're far better off with Windows on a PC | Nov 05 07:05 |
DaemonFC | Apple breaks _everything_ every few years | Nov 05 07:06 |
DaemonFC | good thing they don't really have a lot of software to worry about breaking | Nov 05 07:06 |
cubezzz | I never even mentioned Apple | Nov 05 07:06 |
DaemonFC | Oh noez, they broke Myst!!! | Nov 05 07:06 |
DaemonFC | Now what will I stare at and melt my brain with? :D | Nov 05 07:07 |
Ender2070 | did someone say os/2 warp | Nov 05 07:11 |
cubezzz | yes, I mentioned it as an alternative to win95 | Nov 05 07:12 |
Ender2070 | yeah it was much better | Nov 05 07:12 |
Ender2070 | os/2 kicked ass and took names | Nov 05 07:12 |
cubezzz | if I was to do things over again I would have went CP/M -> Unix and AmigaDOS -> Linux | Nov 05 07:13 |
*DaemonFC has quit ("Leaving") | Nov 05 07:13 | |
cubezzz | whatever :) | Nov 05 07:13 |
Ender2070 | i would have went os/2 warp 3, warp 4, linux | Nov 05 07:14 |
cubezzz | although I probably would have had to use MS DOS until 386's became affordable | Nov 05 07:14 |
Ender2070 | instead of dos/win 3.11, win95, win98, win2k, linux | Nov 05 07:14 |
Ender2070 | i had a 386 | Nov 05 07:15 |
Ender2070 | warp3 ran on it | Nov 05 07:15 |
Ender2070 | but by the time i had warp3 it was dead | Nov 05 07:15 |
Ender2070 | i got my 386 in 1996 | Nov 05 07:15 |
Ender2070 | i didnt even know about linux until 1999 when it was featured in Toronto Computes | Nov 05 07:16 |
Ender2070 | or i would've run some incarnation back in 96 | Nov 05 07:16 |
cubezzz | I had no such excuse | Nov 05 07:18 |
Ender2070 | cubezzz wanna see nostalgia in RL? | Nov 05 07:18 |
cubezzz | I actually did Linux tutoring in 1994 | Nov 05 07:18 |
cubezzz | ok | Nov 05 07:19 |
Ender2070 | http://homeward.homestead.com/index.html | Nov 05 07:19 |
Ender2070 | os/2 warp 4 powered bbs | Nov 05 07:19 |
Ender2070 | still operational | Nov 05 07:20 |
cubezzz | yours? | Nov 05 07:20 |
Ender2070 | no | Nov 05 07:20 |
Ender2070 | its in my area though | Nov 05 07:20 |
Ender2070 | it has like 80 cd roms | Nov 05 07:21 |
Ender2070 | full of shareware | Nov 05 07:21 |
Ender2070 | you can request software from different cd's and he actually changes them every day | Nov 05 07:21 |
cubezzz | yeah, even though my store sold OS/2 warp I never used it very much | Nov 05 07:21 |
Ender2070 | my dad had some store and he warned me against os/2 saying i would never find drivers | Nov 05 07:22 |
cubezzz | that was my Linux/Minix problem | Nov 05 07:22 |
cubezzz | back in 1994 | Nov 05 07:22 |
Ender2070 | ahhh | Nov 05 07:22 |
Ender2070 | lame hardware | Nov 05 07:22 |
Ender2070 | or too proprietary? | Nov 05 07:23 |
cubezzz | now I'm trying to think what happened with Unix System V | Nov 05 07:23 |
cubezzz | I think it just had curses | Nov 05 07:23 |
cubezzz | Ender2070, I couldn't get the cd rom to work | Nov 05 07:23 |
cubezzz | at the time | Nov 05 07:23 |
Ender2070 | i remember when cdroms were a luxury | Nov 05 07:24 |
Ender2070 | i had to install win95 off of floppies | Nov 05 07:24 |
cubezzz | well in 1994 I didn't really have internet | Nov 05 07:24 |
cubezzz | the local freenet started up in Toronto in 1994 | Nov 05 07:25 |
Ender2070 | i got it in 97 but it didnt help | Nov 05 07:25 |
cubezzz | but I didn't clue into that until later | Nov 05 07:25 |
cubezzz | yeah, I got on in Jan 1996 | Nov 05 07:25 |
Ender2070 | i was using 3.11 in 97 | Nov 05 07:25 |
cubezzz | no "start me up" :) | Nov 05 07:26 |
Ender2070 | my 386 couldnt handle much | Nov 05 07:26 |
Ender2070 | 8mb ram | Nov 05 07:26 |
Ender2070 | 30mb hard drive | Nov 05 07:26 |
Ender2070 | 14.4k modem | Nov 05 07:26 |
cubezzz | so when was the first time you tried *nix? | Nov 05 07:26 |
Ender2070 | 1999 | Nov 05 07:26 |
Ender2070 | redhat 5.2 | Nov 05 07:26 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Napster Goes #FreeSoftware http://bit.ly/11KaOg | Nov 05 07:27 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Open Source Napster Resurrected After 8-Year Dormancy | Epicenter | Wired.com .::. Size~: 72.18 KB | Nov 05 07:27 |
cubezzz | I'm launching a CD on tunecore today | Nov 05 07:28 |
Ender2070 | ran it on a 486 DX4 100MHZ monster | Nov 05 07:28 |
cubezzz | made with all Linux tools | Nov 05 07:28 |
Ender2070 | 48mb of ram, 12 gb hard drive i think | Nov 05 07:28 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Sydney University Expert Wants #FreeSoftware for #EHealth http://ur1.ca/f68c | Nov 05 07:29 | |
cubezzz | did you stick with it since 1999? | Nov 05 07:29 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Professor issues proprietary e-health warning - News - Communications - ZDNet Australia .::. Size~: 87.84 KB | Nov 05 07:29 |
cubezzz | or did you go back to the "dark side"? :) | Nov 05 07:29 |
Ender2070 | oh no, it was a 6.4gb quantum drive | Nov 05 07:29 |
Ender2070 | i stuck with it | Nov 05 07:29 |
cubezzz | I only ask because you mentioned win2k | Nov 05 07:30 |
Ender2070 | win2k was 99 | Nov 05 07:30 |
tessier | How are things in BNland today? | Nov 05 07:30 |
tessier | I saw more Microsoft layoffs on the TV at the gym. | Nov 05 07:30 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Comparison Between Free/Libre CMSs: #Plone and #Drupal http://bit.ly/YpT7k | Nov 05 07:31 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Print Story .::. Size~: 10.02 KB | Nov 05 07:31 |
Ender2070 | oh wait im off | Nov 05 07:31 |
Ender2070 | i had win2k first, and redhat later that year | Nov 05 07:32 |
Ender2070 | so it was 2000 | Nov 05 07:32 |
Ender2070 | then i got suse 5.3 which came on 5 cds | Nov 05 07:32 |
Ender2070 | didnt have a cd burner | Nov 05 07:33 |
Ender2070 | but it was sold for like $80 w/ a huge book | Nov 05 07:34 |
Ender2070 | vs $300 for windows | Nov 05 07:34 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Blender Game Competition 2010 http://bit.ly/38QZoS | Nov 05 07:34 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #BobYoung Video on #FreeSoftware http://bit.ly/1dSsTg | Nov 05 07:34 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Free Gamer - open source games: Blender Game Competition 2010 .::. Size~: 111.49 KB | Nov 05 07:34 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Central Valley Business Times .::. Size~: 22.88 KB | Nov 05 07:34 |
Ender2070 | remember corel linux | Nov 05 07:35 |
Ender2070 | lol | Nov 05 07:35 |
cubezzz | yes, but I never used it | Nov 05 07:36 |
Ender2070 | i tried one version, never booted the install | Nov 05 07:37 |
cubezzz | didn't realize fidonet was still kicking | Nov 05 07:38 |
Ender2070 | yeah lol | Nov 05 07:38 |
cubezzz | I can't remember now what Linux used for video drivers in 1994 | Nov 05 07:40 |
cubezzz | I don't even remember running X back then | Nov 05 07:41 |
cubezzz | Ender2070, I remember seeing Redhat boxes in futureshop | Nov 05 07:41 |
cubezzz | oh well tunecore isn't very Linux friendly | Nov 05 07:43 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free/Libre Software Saves Money http://bit.ly/3xyHI | Nov 05 07:44 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: The Eyeopener Online .::. Size~: 13.13 KB | Nov 05 07:44 |
Ender2070 | toronto freenet is still up | Nov 05 07:46 |
cubezzz | yes | Nov 05 07:47 |
Ender2070 | http://www.torfree.net/ | Nov 05 07:47 |
cubezzz | you should get your broadband from them or NCF | Nov 05 07:53 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Hungary Could Save Millions by Moving on to #FreeSoftware http://bit.ly/19UCwO | Nov 05 07:53 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Open source software could help firms .::. Size~: 23.79 KB | Nov 05 07:53 |
Ender2070 | really? | Nov 05 07:54 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #PinkArmy Cooperative and Johns Hopkins University go for #FreeSoftware http://ur1.ca/f695 http://ur1.ca/f696 | Nov 05 07:54 | |
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cubezzz | sure why not, save some money | Nov 05 07:55 |
cubezzz | tornet is very liberal, no filtering, good for a server | Nov 05 07:55 |
Ender2070 | i dont see broadband on their site | Nov 05 07:56 |
cubezzz | umm, let's see... | Nov 05 07:58 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Modding One's Hardware Treated Like Crime http://ur1.ca/f69d http://ur1.ca/f69e | Nov 05 07:58 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Guy Who Helped Mod Cable Modems Arrested By The FBI | Techdirt .::. Size~: 135.63 KB | Nov 05 07:58 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Feds Charge Cable Modem Modder With Aiding Computer Intrusion | Threat Level | Wired.com .::. Size~: 90.72 KB | Nov 05 07:58 |
cubezzz | ok, NCF then ;) | Nov 05 08:00 |
cubezzz | weird, the broadbank links seem to have vanished | Nov 05 08:00 |
cubezzz | http://www.ncf.ca/ | Nov 05 08:01 |
Ender2070 | oh i found it on torfree | Nov 05 08:02 |
Ender2070 | not bad | Nov 05 08:02 |
cubezzz | I think NCF is a little cheaper | Nov 05 08:02 |
Ender2070 | however im moving soon i dont think i can get dsl | Nov 05 08:02 |
Ender2070 | i might have to use wimax | Nov 05 08:03 |
cubezzz | how much does that cost? | Nov 05 08:05 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Gershwins Think #Copyright Law is a Welfare Service http://techdirt.com/articles/20091102/0401476761.shtml Sad, I liked Gershwin | Nov 05 08:06 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] TechDirt Demonstrates New Business Model http://techdirt.com/articles/20091028/0348476705.shtml | Nov 05 08:06 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Gershwin Heirs Fight Over Copyright Royalties | Techdirt .::. Size~: 72.52 KB | Nov 05 08:06 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Results From Our CwF+RtB Business Model Experiment | Techdirt .::. Size~: 124.55 KB | Nov 05 08:06 |
Ender2070 | like $50 | Nov 05 08:07 |
Ender2070 | unfortunately | Nov 05 08:07 |
Ender2070 | for 3mbps | Nov 05 08:07 |
Ender2070 | now its like having rogers in 2002 | Nov 05 08:08 |
Ender2070 | lol | Nov 05 08:08 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Book Shows How Hollywood #MAFIAA CHanges the Law http://ur1.ca/f69t | Nov 05 08:08 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Big Content: Using "moral panics" to change copyright law - Ars Technica .::. Size~: 50.45 KB | Nov 05 08:08 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ACTA Leaked, People Are Hopping Mad http://ur1.ca/f69w http://ur1.ca/f69x http://ur1.ca/f3yb http://ur1.ca/f69y | Nov 05 08:10 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: More ACTA Details Leak: It's An Entertainment Industry Wishlist | Techdirt .::. Size~: 88.92 KB | Nov 05 08:10 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Leaked ACTA Internet Provisions: Three Strikes and a Global DMCA | Electronic Frontier Foundation .::. Size~: 25.69 KB | Nov 05 08:10 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Secret copyright treaty leaks. It's bad. Very bad. - Boing Boing .::. Size~: 431.81 KB | Nov 05 08:10 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Gene Monopoly (Patent) on Saving People from #Cancer Challenged http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/11/genes/ | Nov 05 08:17 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Judge OKs Challenge to Human-Gene Patents | Threat Level | Wired.com .::. Size~: 100.6 KB | Nov 05 08:17 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Hungary Can Save £269,000,000 with #FreeSoftware -- Group http://ur1.ca/f6a8 | Nov 05 08:18 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Ditch Microsoft, Save £269m Says Hungarian Open Source Group - News - eWeekEurope.co.uk .::. Size~: 25.34 KB | Nov 05 08:18 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FUD Against #FreeSoftware Becomes Risky Territory http://www.itwire.com/content/view/29010/1090/ | Nov 05 08:19 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux Threat is Proprietisation of the Platform http://bit.ly/NkFU6 | Nov 05 08:20 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] As More #Microsoft Programmers Laid Off, Microsoft Loses the Plot with Patches http://bit.ly/3HcSpN | Nov 05 08:22 | |
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*schestowitz has kicked zoezeo from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 05 08:24 | |
schestowitz | mutex | Nov 05 08:24 |
schestowitz | ban-evading | Nov 05 08:24 |
schestowitz | [07:30] <tessier> I saw more Microsoft layoffs on the TV at the gym. | Nov 05 08:34 |
schestowitz | tessier: yes, BN had an exclusive | Nov 05 08:34 |
schestowitz | BN was the only site on the Web to write about this round of layoffs 12 days ago | Nov 05 08:34 |
schestowitz | There is more to come because Microsoft cannot keep up profits. It dumps to fight adoption of Free software. (i.e. no profit) | Nov 05 08:34 |
schestowitz | http://www.openxtra.co.uk/blog/the-talebanisation-of-software/ "Would you also class Jeremy Allison as a member of the taliban? He wrote this piece recently:" | Nov 05 08:40 |
schestowitz | LOL | Nov 05 08:40 |
phIRCe-local | Title: The talibanisation of software .::. Size~: 68.56 KB | Nov 05 08:40 |
cubezzz | what does that mean? | Nov 05 08:41 |
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schestowitz | cubezzz: the Mono proponents compare BN to terrorists | Nov 05 08:54 |
schestowitz | And others who oppose mono too | Nov 05 08:54 |
Ender2070 | gotta love this one | Nov 05 09:00 |
Ender2070 | http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/08/15/c-is-just-so-last-year/ | Nov 05 09:00 |
phIRCe-local | Title: The Open Sourcerer » C# Is just SO Last Year .::. Size~: 49.67 KB | Nov 05 09:00 |
Ender2070 | schestowitz - who wrote that we are terrorists | Nov 05 09:02 |
tessier | schestowitz: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9140343/Linux_s_share_of_netbooks_surging_not_sagging_says_analyst | Nov 05 09:05 |
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schestowitz | http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/bentley/ftc-extends-red-flag-rule-compliance-deadlineagain/?cs=37211 | Nov 05 09:10 |
phIRCe-local | Title: FTC Extends Red Flag Rule Compliance Deadline...Again | Blogs | ITBusinessEdge.com .::. Size~: 81.62 KB | Nov 05 09:10 |
schestowitz | tessier: I was just gonna write about it | Nov 05 09:10 |
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tessier | schestowitz: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/10/30/ | Nov 05 09:52 |
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tessier | You see that the other day? | Nov 05 09:52 |
tessier | I though it was amusing. | Nov 05 09:52 |
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schestowitz | tessier: "expected" -> "Vista" :-) | Nov 05 10:09 |
oiaohm | http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?p=1333542 Its starting to seam like MS media department is this mouse. | Nov 05 10:15 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] How Micro-4/3 and better compact sensors will kill the DSLR (HT @petapixel) http://j.mp/4a8yNr | Nov 05 10:16 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Vista7 as Insecure as Predecessors, Shows #Sophos http://ping.fm/XRxhu | Nov 05 10:17 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Vista 7 as Insecure as Predecessors, Shows Sophos | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 95.26 KB | Nov 05 10:17 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Confirmed: #Microsoft Publicly Lies About Market Share of #GNU #Linux http://ping.fm/ISu70 | Nov 05 10:18 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Confirmed: Microsoft Publicly Lies About Market Share of GNU/Linux | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 99.83 KB | Nov 05 10:18 |
oiaohm | Main reason for me wanting a SLR is the means to hold on to the bugger. | Nov 05 10:18 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: Microsoft? Where in Blender? | Nov 05 10:18 |
oiaohm | I was meaning the picture at how badly MS marketing is getten beaten up schestowitz. They are like a mouse with a large mic and most people know they are a mouse so don't listern schestowitz | Nov 05 10:20 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @Karoli  @xavierla : Republicans Introduce Health Insurance Profits Protection Act: http://ur1.ca/f6h5 #p2 #hcr #gop | gd title || LOL! | Nov 05 10:27 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Alliance for a Better Minnesota | Xavier Lopez-Ayala's Blog: BREAKING NEWS: Republicans Introduce Insurance Industry Protection Act .::. Size~: 42.49 KB | Nov 05 10:27 |
oiaohm | I have also noticed that all my eopen licences have been coverted to Windows 7 supporting licences with no charge. | Nov 05 10:30 |
oiaohm | Next question will MS count those as sales of Windows 7 | Nov 05 10:30 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Weiner Amendment Vote - a game and we are being played. http://bit.ly/1Xd87h #HCR #singlepayer #hc09 | Nov 05 10:35 | |
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oiaohm | http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/bizarre_cathedral_57 This one is perfect. | Nov 05 10:44 |
phIRCe-local | Title: The Bizarre Cathedral - 57 .::. Size~: 35.56 KB | Nov 05 10:44 |
schestowitz | http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/nov/04/microsoft-job-cuts "Is this why Jack is not as overtly pro-Microsoft as previously?" | Nov 05 10:45 |
schestowitz | LOL | Nov 05 10:45 |
schestowitz | [10:30] <oiaohm> Next question will MS count those as sales of Windows 7 | Nov 05 10:45 |
schestowitz | Of course they will | Nov 05 10:45 |
schestowitz | Everything that counts of vanity, will | Nov 05 10:45 |
schestowitz | Some Vista 'sales' are not sales | Nov 05 10:45 |
schestowitz | If you buy a PC with Vista and shift to XP it then counts as 2 Vista sales | Nov 05 10:46 |
schestowitz | In reality, none is used | Nov 05 10:46 |
oiaohm | schestowitz: the big thing is if they count them as Windows 7 sales they will count them as full rrp against tax. | Nov 05 10:48 |
schestowitz | Oh, I see... | Nov 05 10:56 |
schestowitz | Well, normal tax rules don't apply to Microsoft | Nov 05 10:56 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Universities up for Sale; Can Martin Bean Keep #Google Away? http://ping.fm/7qkwz #microsoft #lockin | Nov 05 10:56 | |
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oiaohm | Note all my eopen licences are for charities to keep costs down schestowitz | Nov 05 11:02 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Andrew #Cuomo Should Sue and Punish #Microsoft for Same Crimes as #Intel http://ping.fm/SeNhN | Nov 05 11:38 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Andrew Cuomo Should Sue and Punish Microsoft for Same Crimes as Intel | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 98.35 KB | Nov 05 11:38 |
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*fewa has changed the topic to: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged] | Register with nickserv to speak http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup | Nov 05 12:06 | |
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fewa | wut | Nov 05 12:07 |
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amarsh04 | http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2009/s2734145.htm | Nov 05 12:13 |
phIRCe-local | Title: The World Today - Letting the gene out of the bottle 05/11/2009 .::. Size~: 25.91 KB | Nov 05 12:13 |
amarsh04 | about gene patents | Nov 05 12:15 |
fewa | they dont even mention the history | Nov 05 12:18 |
fewa | that patents on life are banned | Nov 05 12:18 |
fewa | and always have been | Nov 05 12:18 |
amarsh04 | are you in .au fewa? | Nov 05 12:18 |
fewa | ohhhhhh | Nov 05 12:18 |
fewa | no, US | Nov 05 12:18 |
fewa | this is where such ludacris things started | Nov 05 12:18 |
amarsh04 | back in a few minutes... quitting irc on both machines then reconnecting on the other machine | Nov 05 12:21 |
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fewa | packages.debian.org/znc | Nov 05 12:21 |
fewa | http://packages.debian.org/znc | Nov 05 12:21 |
oiaohm | DNA stuff is become a major issue. Since dna tests are starting to decide if particular drugs will work or not. | Nov 05 12:21 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Debian -- Package Search Results -- znc .::. Size~: 17.61 KB | Nov 05 12:22 |
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fewa | Stiglitz talked about how such patents add no value http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzhD7KVs-R4 | Nov 05 12:22 |
fewa | somewhere in the middle | Nov 05 12:23 |
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amarsh04 | Yes, I notice new gene sequencing packages appearing in Debian | Nov 05 12:25 |
amarsh04 | s/notice/noticed/ | Nov 05 12:25 |
fewa | sequencin? | Nov 05 12:25 |
fewa | I've seen sequencing machines | Nov 05 12:25 |
fewa | they are not cheap | Nov 05 12:25 |
fewa | not something everybody can own | Nov 05 12:25 |
fewa | and the general sequence is already done | Nov 05 12:26 |
fewa | (not each persons differences) | Nov 05 12:26 |
fewa | its all available online | Nov 05 12:26 |
fewa | http://www.ensembl.org/ | Nov 05 12:27 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 307 Temporary Redirect .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 05 12:27 |
schestowitz | Interesting how Microsoft is now described as communism and FOSS as capitalism: http://www.the-source.com/2009/11/open-source-politics/ | Nov 05 12:29 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Open Source Politics .::. Size~: 16.77 KB | Nov 05 12:29 |
schestowitz | fewa: but if the assumption is that patent=monopoly money=more money for 'research', then they can try to contract with propaganda | Nov 05 12:30 |
schestowitz | Award systems would be good | Nov 05 12:31 |
schestowitz | I watched the whole 40-min thing yesterday, as well as about 6 more | Nov 05 12:31 |
schestowitz | After that he becomes repetitive | Nov 05 12:31 |
amarsh04 | did you look at the link I posted schestowitz? | Nov 05 12:35 |
amarsh04 | I'm glad that the Australian Broadcasting Corporation does transcripts | Nov 05 12:36 |
oiaohm | The arguements for closed source are basically the same ones for patents fewa | Nov 05 12:37 |
amarsh04 | "monetizing", oiaohm? | Nov 05 12:39 |
oiaohm | I remember hearing all the ones saying that Linux destroying Unix market share was impossiable. | Nov 05 12:39 |
oiaohm | Because Linux would not get the money to do research. | Nov 05 12:39 |
oiaohm | There is more than one way to fund research. | Nov 05 12:41 |
amarsh04 | and having people who just want things to work better can help with the "research" | Nov 05 12:44 |
oiaohm | Open trade in information can provide better data to test ideas with. | Nov 05 12:44 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Google Dashboard reveals private data - Channel 4 News http://tinyurl.com/yzvvd6g | Nov 05 12:45 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Google Dashboard reveals private data - Channel 4 News .::. Size~: 36.31 KB | Nov 05 12:45 |
oiaohm | Biggest problem with patents is companies who patent hord items that could undermine there main market. Like oil companyes and effective engines. | Nov 05 12:45 |
oiaohm | Patents should be use them or lose them. | Nov 05 12:46 |
*zer0c00l is now known as zer0c00l|Away | Nov 05 12:46 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OpenSource Subsumed by #Microsoft and #Blackboard http://ping.fm/0jsOQ | Nov 05 12:46 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Open Source Subsumed by Microsoft and Blackboard | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 104.79 KB | Nov 05 12:46 |
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amarsh04 | http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2009/s2734145.htm | Nov 05 13:05 |
phIRCe-local | Title: The World Today - Letting the gene out of the bottle 05/11/2009 .::. Size~: 25.8 KB | Nov 05 13:05 |
amarsh04 | oops, wrong link | Nov 05 13:05 |
amarsh04 | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091028211001746 | Nov 05 13:06 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Groklaw - Novell and Microsoft both file summary judgment motions in the WordPerfect antitrust case .::. Size~: 40.18 KB | Nov 05 13:06 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Are #Microsoft Employees (Technical Evangelists) Using #Spammers in #Twitter? http://ping.fm/wTqqx | Nov 05 13:29 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Are Microsoft Employees (Technical Evangelists) Using Spammers in Twitter? | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 95 KB | Nov 05 13:29 |
schestowitz | amarsh04: thanks | Nov 05 13:38 |
schestowitz | See http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Making_IShellBrowser_internal%3B_%22intentionally_break_those_apps%22 | Nov 05 13:38 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Making IShellBrowser internal; "intentionally break those apps" - Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 13.2 KB | Nov 05 13:38 |
schestowitz | That's what Novell needs | Nov 05 13:38 |
schestowitz | Maybe Novell lawyers can cite BN ;-) | Nov 05 13:38 |
schestowitz | wallc: you there? | Nov 05 13:39 |
schestowitz | Hehe. More 'protection': http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8344174.stm | Nov 05 13:43 |
phIRCe-local | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 81.25 KB | Nov 05 13:43 |
schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8342277.stm | Nov 05 13:44 |
phIRCe-local | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 81.23 KB | Nov 05 13:44 |
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schestowitz | Why don't more people boycott Intel? http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1561249/intel-accused-bribery-coercion | Nov 05 13:50 |
schestowitz | Hey, Mike | Nov 05 13:50 |
schestowitz | http://linuxcrunch.com/content/thunderbird-won-france | Nov 05 13:53 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Thunderbird won in France | We love Linux ! .::. Size~: 20.93 KB | Nov 05 13:53 |
schestowitz | http://gigaom.com/2009/07/30/is-googles-android-killing-windows-mobile/ | Nov 05 13:53 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Is Googles Android Killing Windows Mobile? .::. Size~: 143.4 KB | Nov 05 13:54 |
schestowitz | http://linuxgazette.net/168/nielsen.html | Nov 05 13:55 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Setting up a MySQL Cluster for your Linux desktop LG #168 .::. Size~: 41.52 KB | Nov 05 13:55 |
*zer0c00l|Away is now known as zer0c00l | Nov 05 13:56 | |
amarsh04 | thanks schestowitz, someone already referenced that email on groklaw.net | Nov 05 13:59 |
schestowitz | I know | Nov 05 13:59 |
schestowitz | He mailed me | Nov 05 13:59 |
schestowitz | http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20091028211001746&title=wow&type=article&order=&hideanonymous=0&pid=798603#c798605 | Nov 05 14:00 |
schestowitz | http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20091028211001746&title=O%2FT%3A+Chicago%2FCapone%2FMarvel&type=article&order=&hideanonymous=0&pid=798603#c798610 | Nov 05 14:00 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Groklaw - Digging for Truth .::. Size~: 16.14 KB | Nov 05 14:00 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Groklaw - Digging for Truth .::. Size~: 16.16 KB | Nov 05 14:00 |
schestowitz | Now it's getting fun | Nov 05 14:00 |
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Nov 05 14:00 | |
schestowitz | oiaogm just missed this one: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/04/cisco_q1_fy_2010_earnings/ | Nov 05 14:03 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Cisco profits slip 19%, but pass 'tipping point' • The Register .::. Size~: 28.39 KB | Nov 05 14:03 |
schestowitz | MikeyC: you there? | Nov 05 14:05 |
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*schestowitz gives voice to amarsh04 amarsh04_ Diablo-D3 effffig | Nov 05 14:09 | |
*schestowitz gives voice to fewa ikonia jmpnop Lns | Nov 05 14:09 | |
*schestowitz gives voice to magentar merriam__ MikeyC MinceR | Nov 05 14:09 | |
*schestowitz gives voice to PetoKraus popey Python132O tessier | Nov 05 14:09 | |
*schestowitz gives voice to voltronw wallc zer0c00l zub | Nov 05 14:09 | |
schestowitz | Oh cr* | Nov 05 14:09 |
schestowitz | It seems like the Web portal won't let people speak without voice | Nov 05 14:10 |
MikeyC | hey roy | Nov 05 14:10 |
schestowitz | Hey | Nov 05 14:10 |
schestowitz | wallc: you there? | Nov 05 14:10 |
zer0c00l | what happened? | Nov 05 14:10 |
zer0c00l | +vvvvv ? | Nov 05 14:10 |
schestowitz | No idea | Nov 05 14:10 |
MikeyC | how you getting on in the cross trainer | Nov 05 14:10 |
zer0c00l | what does that mean? | Nov 05 14:10 |
effffig | test | Nov 05 14:10 |
schestowitz | cr*p | Nov 05 14:10 |
schestowitz | Basically, bcause of the mutex troll we set a flag that must have caused issues | Nov 05 14:11 |
zer0c00l | lol | Nov 05 14:11 |
schestowitz | ALso for BNc and BNi | Nov 05 14:11 |
schestowitz | zer0c00l: were you blocked before? | Nov 05 14:11 |
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to fewa | Nov 05 14:12 | |
zer0c00l | schestowitz: no | Nov 05 14:12 |
zer0c00l | schestowitz: why? | Nov 05 14:12 |
schestowitz | I reckon some people here tried to speak and were obstructed | Nov 05 14:12 |
zer0c00l | schestowitz: ok | Nov 05 14:12 |
zer0c00l | schestowitz: The identi.ca bot is dead? | Nov 05 14:13 |
zer0c00l | schestowitz: the one which posts updates here | Nov 05 14:13 |
schestowitz | Trolls-induced disruption | Nov 05 14:13 |
schestowitz | zer0c00l: try now | Nov 05 14:13 |
schestowitz | I think it should work | Nov 05 14:13 |
zer0c00l | ok :) | Nov 05 14:13 |
schestowitz | Thanks. | Nov 05 14:13 |
schestowitz | MikeyC: can you paste here what was blocked before? | Nov 05 14:13 |
*effffig has quit ("Page closed") | Nov 05 14:14 | |
schestowitz | wallc: are you there? | Nov 05 14:14 |
schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/05/bbc_website_problems/ | Nov 05 14:15 |
phIRCe-local | Title: BBC website now unbroked • The Register .::. Size~: 24.47 KB | Nov 05 14:15 |
schestowitz | fewa: how can this voice flag thing no longer clog up voices? | Nov 05 14:16 |
fewa | its not suppose to matter | Nov 05 14:16 |
fewa | they just have to be registered | Nov 05 14:16 |
fewa | aka /msg nickserv register <email> <password> | Nov 05 14:16 |
fewa | and then /msg nickserv identify <password> | Nov 05 14:17 |
schestowitz | How come it worked before? | Nov 05 14:17 |
schestowitz | Does it only allow registered one to speak? | Nov 05 14:17 |
fewa | thats what +R does | Nov 05 14:17 |
schestowitz | Because we had people come here and try to talk | Nov 05 14:17 |
schestowitz | Like Silva.. of ODF | Nov 05 14:17 |
fewa | freenode should message you and tell you that you cant send to channel | Nov 05 14:18 |
schestowitz | I think wallc was denied speech also... and they are not notified about it | Nov 05 14:18 |
fewa | I tested and it worked | Nov 05 14:18 |
schestowitz | Just goes into chasm | Nov 05 14:18 |
wallc | Hi Roy, I'm here, just doing other tasks away from the computer...I'm here with my coffee now :) | Nov 05 14:18 |
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Faculty devel program by TCE on FOSS: https://foss.tce.edu/ Nov 30 - Dec 4th ; sponsor FOSSEE , MHRD | Nov 05 14:18 | |
fewa | wallc, here you loud and clear | Nov 05 14:18 |
schestowitz | wallc: question: | Nov 05 14:18 |
schestowitz | Did you message in the past day or two? | Nov 05 14:18 |
schestowitz | Cause we saw nothing | Nov 05 14:19 |
schestowitz | Or were you quiet? | Nov 05 14:19 |
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schestowitz | "#boycottnovell Please register with services and use the IDENTIFY command (/msg nickserv help) to speak in this channel" | Nov 05 14:20 |
wallc | I wrote a couple of comments, but i never worry if no one answers, i just assume folks are busy... | Nov 05 14:20 |
schestowitz | It shows up separately, which is confusing (ina tab about status) | Nov 05 14:20 |
schestowitz | wallc: they didn't show up | Nov 05 14:20 |
*schestowitz has changed the topic to: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged] | Register with nickserv to speak http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup | Nov 05 14:21 | |
*schestowitz sets mode -R #boycottnovell | Nov 05 14:21 | |
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test1234 | test 1234 | Nov 05 14:21 |
schestowitz | OK | Nov 05 14:22 |
*test1234 has quit (Client Quit) | Nov 05 14:22 | |
wallc | my comments didn't show up? Darn, the ONE time I say something useful and profound, and it doesn't show up! I'm sooo upset...(yes, I'm joking :) | Nov 05 14:22 |
*amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04 | Nov 05 14:23 | |
schestowitz | wallc: anyone, it's sorted now. Nobody ignored you anyway, just didn't see the message/s | Nov 05 14:24 |
wallc | I know...it's fine, really. :) | Nov 05 14:24 |
schestowitz | Hmmmm... could Microsoft do what it did in Taiwan again to ASUS..? http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/11/05/asus_smartbook_delay/ | Nov 05 14:24 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Asus delays 'smartbook' release • Register Hardware .::. Size~: 21.3 KB | Nov 05 14:24 |
schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/articles/20091103/0345006779.shtml | Nov 05 14:26 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Time For Palm To Drop WebOS And Embrace Android | Techdirt .::. Size~: 91.6 KB | Nov 05 14:26 |
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schestowitz | http://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2009/11/law_professor_s.htm | Nov 05 14:28 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Technology & Marketing Law Blog: Law Professor Sues Over 'Above the Law' Blog Posts--Jones v. Minkin .::. Size~: 25.43 KB | Nov 05 14:28 |
schestowitz | Copyright for censorship | Nov 05 14:28 |
schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/articles/20091104/1304516798.shtml | Nov 05 14:36 |
phIRCe-local | Title: EMI Sues Music Site Offering Beatles MP3s | Techdirt .::. Size~: 41.58 KB | Nov 05 14:36 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Red Hat disables antifeature: http://ping.fm/PiVad | Nov 05 14:44 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Red Hat virtualization: No Windows Server 2008, RHEL management - SearchServerVirtualization Blog .::. Size~: 51.78 KB | Nov 05 14:44 |
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sebsebseb | hi | Nov 05 14:51 |
schestowitz | Hey | Nov 05 14:56 |
schestowitz | http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/11/startup_guru_don_dodge_among_those_laid_off_in_microsoft_cuts.html?ana=from_rss | Nov 05 14:57 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Startup guru Don Dodge among those let go in Microsoft cuts .::. Size~: 49.49 KB | Nov 05 14:57 |
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #ssh transport library for !Java http://ur1.ca/f73s | Nov 05 14:58 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: JSch - Java Secure Channel .::. Size~: 20.21 KB | Nov 05 14:58 |
schestowitz | Todd thought he had an "Exclusive" with what BN reported 2 weeks ago.... http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/11/more_microsoft_job_cuts_coming.html?ana=from_rss | Nov 05 14:58 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Exclusive: More Microsoft layoffs .::. Size~: 45.25 KB | Nov 05 14:58 |
schestowitz | http://www.prwatch.org/node/8671 | Nov 05 15:01 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Pinkwashing Turns on Itself with Breast Cancer Awareness Gun | Center for Media and Democracy .::. Size~: 81.25 KB | Nov 05 15:01 |
Diablo-D3 | yay its back | Nov 05 15:03 |
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schestowitz | yes, we found the problem | Nov 05 15:12 |
schestowitz | +R flag | Nov 05 15:12 |
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] LOL RD: @schestowitz: Red Hat disables antifeature: http://ping.fm/PiVad | Nov 05 15:13 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Red Hat virtualization: No Windows Server 2008, RHEL management - SearchServerVirtualization Blog .::. Size~: 51.78 KB | Nov 05 15:13 |
schestowitz | http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/csiro-bid-to-gag-emissions-trading-scheme-policy-attack/story-e6frg8gf-1225793355139 | Nov 05 15:16 |
phIRCe-local | Title: CSIRO bid to gag ETS policy attack | The Australian .::. Size~: 53.15 KB | Nov 05 15:16 |
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schestowitz | http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7599/1.html | Nov 05 15:21 |
schestowitz | amarsh04: see http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/csiro-bid-to-gag-emissions-trading-scheme-policy-attack/story-e6frg8gf-1225793355139 | Nov 05 15:21 |
phIRCe-local | Title: CSIRO bid to gag ETS policy attack | The Australian .::. Size~: 53.15 KB | Nov 05 15:21 |
schestowitz | CSIRO does evil again | Nov 05 15:21 |
schestowitz | Not with swpats this time (or wifi) | Nov 05 15:22 |
amarsh04 | yes, I heard about it on ABC radio schestowitz | Nov 05 15:22 |
schestowitz | BTW... | Nov 05 15:22 |
schestowitz | Doesn't the AUssie ABC conflict with the name of US ABC? | Nov 05 15:22 |
amarsh04 | there have been a few too many cases of groupthink at the CSIRO | Nov 05 15:23 |
*zer0c00l is now known as zer0c00l|Away | Nov 05 15:24 | |
amarsh04 | no, neither is the Blackwood Bowls Club conflicting with the British Broadcasting Corporation | Nov 05 15:24 |
schestowitz | But they are not both in the same field | Nov 05 15:27 |
schestowitz | Like Ubuntu restaurant vs IR Ubuntu | Nov 05 15:27 |
schestowitz | Hmmmmmm... Carla's CLI skillz make Linux look intimidating, as she usually makes it seem.. http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2009/11/getting-the-sca.html | Nov 05 15:29 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Linux Today Blog .::. Size~: 90.34 KB | Nov 05 15:29 |
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DaemonFC | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1561310/ballmer-half-heartedly-talks-windows | Nov 05 15:35 |
schestowitz | Old ya! | Nov 05 15:36 |
schestowitz | *Old ya! | Nov 05 15:36 |
schestowitz | >Told | Nov 05 15:36 |
DaemonFC | "It is helping to spur PC sales... um... in Japan. We've had a great response... in Japan. The first ten days were bigger than the first ten days of XP or Vista or any other Windows launch that we have done... in Japan." | Nov 05 15:36 |
DaemonFC | True he was talking to a Japanese news conference, but it is rare that the great man is that specific. If it was really doing well in Japan and everywhere else we would expect him to start waving his arms, flinging chairs and shouting, "I rule the world, baby!" | Nov 05 15:36 |
DaemonFC | lmao | Nov 05 15:36 |
schestowitz | Their silence is deafening. | Nov 05 15:36 |
schestowitz | You'd expect them to make a lot of noise after week 1 | Nov 05 15:37 |
schestowitz | "We sold 999999999999999 copies..." | Nov 05 15:37 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: Japan is there Linux gave the thumbsup | Nov 05 15:37 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, XP launch sales were the last thng they could brag about | Nov 05 15:37 |
schestowitz | !google linus japan windows 7 | Nov 05 15:37 |
phIRCe-local | [1] - Linus Torvalds gives Windows 7 a big thumbs up | http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/23/linus-torvalds-gives-windows-7-a-big-thumbs-up/ | Nov 05 15:37 |
phIRCe-local | [2] - Japan Window$ 7 & Linus | http://picasaweb.google.com/cschlaeger/JapanLinuxSymposium | Nov 05 15:37 |
phIRCe-local | [3] - united colours of vruz - Linus at Windows 7 launch, Japan !! photo:... | http://vruz.tumblr.com/post/221167121/linus-at-windows-7-launch-japan-photo | Nov 05 15:37 |
phIRCe-local | [4] - Linus Torvalds gives Windows 7 a big thumbs up | http://digg.com/microsoft/Linus_Torvalds_gives_Windows_7_a_big_thumbs_up | Nov 05 15:37 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, I don't know why they're worried about illegal aliens being covered by the health care bill (they won't) | Nov 05 15:45 |
DaemonFC | We're paying for them either way with the law saying that emergency rooms have to treat you | Nov 05 15:45 |
DaemonFC | it would actually probably save us money to cover them :P | Nov 05 15:46 |
tessier | DaemonFC: I think so too | Nov 05 15:56 |
DaemonFC | tessier, I support raids, deportations, and massive fines for their employers | Nov 05 15:57 |
DaemonFC | There's a legal process to be followed | Nov 05 15:57 |
DaemonFC | I can't just hike across the Canadian border and say "I'm here, give me free health care and a job!", can I? | Nov 05 15:58 |
DaemonFC | No other country in the world would put up with this. Why do we? | Nov 05 15:58 |
DaemonFC | I was in court one day for a Class C Misdemeanor (Of which the charge was dropped), but there was an illegal alien in there too, and he was in there for a D Felony and the judge gave him a slap on the wrist | Nov 05 16:00 |
DaemonFC | she starts "suspended sentence" this, "show up for counseling" that | Nov 05 16:01 |
DaemonFC | the prosecutor asked if they should notify ICE, and the judge said "No, but if they come here looking, we'll comply" | Nov 05 16:01 |
DaemonFC | so this guy who just got convicted of a felony will just disappear, take up a new name somewhere else, have a clean record, never be punished, and find a new job | Nov 05 16:02 |
DaemonFC | they basically get to come here and work around pretty much all our laws | Nov 05 16:03 |
DaemonFC | they really do have to kill someone before they get any kind of attention | Nov 05 16:03 |
DaemonFC | when you complain and ask what's wrong with this picture, they just call you a racist or an angry white man | Nov 05 16:04 |
DaemonFC | that's like some boilerplate terminology for anyone who objects to criminal activity | Nov 05 16:05 |
DaemonFC | tessier, Mexican states were at various times (probably still are) printing handbook/map combos on how to cross the Sonora desert and where the "sanctuary cities" are and how to get on food stamps and get free healthcare and enroll their kids in our school system | Nov 05 16:07 |
DaemonFC | people that don't have any legal right to reside here are demanding that we all learn Spanish | Nov 05 16:08 |
schestowitz | What a disconnected collection of stuff: http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/68566.html?wlc=1257437084 | Nov 05 16:10 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Linux News: Community: Does Wine Make Linux Too Loose? .::. Size~: 59.11 KB | Nov 05 16:10 |
schestowitz | http://www.thinkdigit.com/Features/Getting-KDE4-on-Windows_3550.html | Nov 05 16:11 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Getting KDE4 on Windows .::. Size~: 55.44 KB | Nov 05 16:11 |
schestowitz | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzY3Ng | Nov 05 16:12 |
phIRCe-local | Title: [Phoronix] More Developers Want GNOME 3.0 Delayed .::. Size~: 19.16 KB | Nov 05 16:12 |
schestowitz | "And Melissa struck this author as "a real evangelist". Too bad truth sometimes gets in the way." http://gateskeepers.civiblog.org/blog/_archives/2009/11/4/4370999.html | Nov 05 16:18 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Gates Keepers :: Altar Call from the Gates Foundation .::. Size~: 22.79 KB | Nov 05 16:18 |
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*zer0c00l|Away is now known as zer0c00l|cricket | Nov 05 16:19 | |
DaemonFC | http://www.reportillegals.com/images/CNN_Lou_Dobbs_Sham_Marriages_Broad_Band.wmv | Nov 05 16:22 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Not a web page! Aborting video/x-ms-wmv type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 05 16:22 |
schestowitz | Windows media? | Nov 05 16:22 |
DaemonFC | meh | Nov 05 16:25 |
DaemonFC | ffmpeg can play it | Nov 05 16:25 |
schestowitz | Downloading this encourages more of the same :-) | Nov 05 16:26 |
schestowitz | http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/PABRcom-WXHMD/?kc=rss | Nov 05 16:29 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Headmount computer design runs Linux - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 66.34 KB | Nov 05 16:29 |
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schestowitz | KDE 4.3 is really fantastic. I'm saddened to see so many GNOME vs Vista7 [sic] comparisons being case as "Linux" vs "Windows" when KDE4 is a lot more competitive. | Nov 05 16:39 |
schestowitz | http://mdeslaur.blogspot.com/2009/11/gnome-keyring.html | Nov 05 16:42 |
phIRCe-local | Title: mdeslaur: GNOME Keyring .::. Size~: 93.84 KB | Nov 05 16:42 |
DaemonFC | http://www.v3.co.uk/v3/news/2250363/microsoft-senior-execs-pay-cut | Nov 05 16:43 |
DaemonFC | Hard to suffer when you already have $15 billion (Ballmer) | Nov 05 16:43 |
DaemonFC | http://www.v3.co.uk/vnunet/news/2234987/senator-asks-microsoft-sack | Nov 05 16:45 |
DaemonFC | Senator asks Microsoft to sack foreigners first | Nov 05 16:45 |
DaemonFC | heh, they're sacking Americans to hire MORE foreigners | Nov 05 16:45 |
DaemonFC | nice PR stunt though | Nov 05 16:45 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: yes, not news | Nov 05 16:46 |
schestowitz | Overworked, underpaid | Nov 05 16:46 |
schestowitz | VIsta 7 was built in Bangalore, I read | Nov 05 16:46 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Gentoo realises that KDE4 is totally good to go! http://ping.fm/tE2GY | Nov 05 16:46 | |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, Read where? | Nov 05 16:46 |
DaemonFC | You mean like, they have a few managers and blogging talking heads here to put a nice face on it | Nov 05 16:47 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&c2coff=1&q=site%3Aboycottnovell.com+grassley&aq=f&oq=&aqi= | Nov 05 16:47 |
phIRCe-local | Title: site:boycottnovell.com grassley - Google Search .::. Size~: 24.49 KB | Nov 05 16:47 |
DaemonFC | then they go and buil dthe whole thing with cut rate offshore labor? | Nov 05 16:47 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: it's globalisation the wrong way | Nov 05 16:47 |
schestowitz | More margins for rich people to hoard | Nov 05 16:47 |
schestowitz | Good for them, less for the rest | Nov 05 16:47 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, The 20% exec pay cut is a sham | Nov 05 16:47 |
schestowitz | From a shareholders' point of view it may also seem OK | Nov 05 16:48 |
schestowitz | It's hard to offshore one's portfolio | Nov 05 16:48 |
DaemonFC | that's not even their main source of income, stock options and bonuses are more than their salary | Nov 05 16:48 |
DaemonFC | you don't hear aboutt hem slashing that | Nov 05 16:48 |
DaemonFC | *about | Nov 05 16:48 |
schestowitz | Yes | Nov 05 16:49 |
schestowitz | Some get $1 salary | Nov 05 16:49 |
schestowitz | Google founders for example | Nov 05 16:49 |
schestowitz | Maybe Jobs too | Nov 05 16:49 |
schestowitz | Stupid gimmick | Nov 05 16:49 |
schestowitz | http://www.businessinsider.com/are-rising-costs-killing-the-crunchpad-2009-11 CrunchPad Dead? Delayed By Higher-Than-Expected Costs? | Nov 05 16:50 |
phIRCe-local | Title: CrunchPad Dead? Delayed By Higher-Than-Expected Costs? .::. Size~: 110.84 KB | Nov 05 16:50 |
schestowitz | Patents too I reckon | Nov 05 16:50 |
schestowitz | Hardware patents even | Nov 05 16:50 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, No CEO would stay and work for free | Nov 05 16:50 |
schestowitz | http://blogs.computerworld.com/15040/linux_for_grandma_grandpa | Nov 05 16:50 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Linux for grandma & grandpa - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 136.59 KB | Nov 05 16:50 |
DaemonFC | you know they're pulling in the millions of dollars from something else if they "work for $1 a year" | Nov 05 16:51 |
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DaemonFC | schestowitz, I would go after Intel first if I was him | Nov 05 16:53 |
DaemonFC | One you're proven wrongdoing there, which is made easier by the other antitrust suits elsewhere, it's easier to go after Microsoft using the Intel case as precedent | Nov 05 16:53 |
schestowitz | Yup | Nov 05 16:55 |
schestowitz | Anyway, gotta run now | Nov 05 16:55 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Intellectual Ventures starts to racket Samsung and LG Electronics: http://i5.be/RC More lawsuits now! The more the better! | Nov 05 17:00 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: The Chosun Ilbo (English Edition): Daily News from Korea - Corporations Worldwide Join Hands to Battle Patent Trolls .::. Size~: 7.36 KB | Nov 05 17:00 |
schestowitz | It's rainy outside. Damn. | Nov 05 17:02 |
schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/05/murdoch_delay_charging/ | Nov 05 17:02 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Murdoch admits delays on paywall scheme • The Register .::. Size~: 25.88 KB | Nov 05 17:02 |
schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/05/china_addiction/ | Nov 05 17:03 |
phIRCe-local | Title: China says there's no such thing as net addiction • The Register .::. Size~: 25.64 KB | Nov 05 17:03 |
schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/05/brown_wont_go/ | Nov 05 17:05 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Brown declines to resign • The Register .::. Size~: 25.08 KB | Nov 05 17:05 |
schestowitz | I'll rush into the rain anyway. Back in a couple.... | Nov 05 17:08 |
*zer0c00l|cricket is now known as zer0c00l | Nov 05 17:10 | |
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] அடடா! கைக்கு எட்டுனது வாய்க்கு எட்டலையே x( | Nov 05 17:18 | |
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Good that sachin has got the man of the match; He deserves it; | Nov 05 17:23 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @EFF watch: thx to Rep. Holt for intro'ing House version of JUSTICE Act to fix #PATRIOTact & repeal telco immunity! http://eff.org/r.5b2 | Nov 05 17:31 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Holt (NJ12) - Press Release - Holt Introduces Surveillance Reform Bill .::. Size~: 27.11 KB | Nov 05 17:31 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @glynmoody Students in Denmark Allowed Full Access to the Internet During Exams - http://bit.ly/30OsY7 it's the future... #education | Nov 05 17:46 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Students in Denmark Allowed Full Access to the Internet During Exams .::. Size~: 38.3 KB | Nov 05 17:46 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Grayson: How Many Uninsured Will Die In #Republican Districts http://ur1.ca/f7gd #HCR #hc09 #p2 | Nov 05 17:52 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Daily Kos: Grayson: How Many Uninsured Will Die In GOP Districts .::. Size~: 72.81 KB | Nov 05 17:52 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @singlepater Pelosi "THE DECISION WAS MADE" to omit Kucinich amendment allowing state #singlepayer Whos "decision"? where's the vote? #hc | Nov 05 17:55 | |
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DaemonFC | http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/174545/june-19-2008/cookie-monster | Nov 05 18:08 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Cookie Monster | June 19,2008 - Bishop N.T. Wright | ColbertNation.com .::. Size~: 66.57 KB | Nov 05 18:08 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Faux @MyFoxNY publishes bogus mayor election results numbers that omit votes for 3rd party candidates http://ur1.ca/f7hn actual 50.6 to 46.0 | Nov 05 18:10 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: 2009-Election-Results .::. Size~: 36.88 KB | Nov 05 18:10 |
DaemonFC | http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/174544/june-19-2008/make-mccain-exciting-challenge---the-secret-of-mccain-s-brain | Nov 05 18:16 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Make McCain Exciting Challenge - The Secret of McCain's Brain | June 19,2008 - Bishop N.T. Wright | ColbertNation.com .::. Size~: 64.9 KB | Nov 05 18:16 |
DaemonFC | go to 1:44 | Nov 05 18:16 |
DaemonFC | lol | Nov 05 18:16 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] #Faux @MyFoxNY publishes bogus mayor election results that omits 3rd party votes http://ur1.ca/f7hn actual 50.6 to 46.0 http://ur1.ca/f7il | Nov 05 18:18 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: 2009-Election-Results .::. Size~: 36.88 KB | Nov 05 18:18 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Mayor and Citywide Races - Election Results 2009 - The New York Times .::. Size~: 35.56 KB | Nov 05 18:18 |
DaemonFC | http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/255172/november-04-2009/tip-wag---rush-limbaugh---us-weekly | Nov 05 18:20 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Tip/Wag - Rush Limbaugh & Us Weekly | November 4, 2009 | ColbertNation.com .::. Size~: 30.5 KB | Nov 05 18:20 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @eff Rep. Watt (D-Va): gov't must show *facts* to court if wants streams of email & web site addresses using "pen register" #patriotact | Nov 05 18:25 | |
DaemonFC | http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/254665/november-03-2009/the-word---the-green-mile | Nov 05 18:38 |
phIRCe-local | Title: The Word - The Green Mile | November 3, 2009 | ColbertNation.com .::. Size~: 65.82 KB | Nov 05 18:38 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Google Maps shows nonexistent city "Perth" http://is.gd/4O6Rd | Nov 05 18:57 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: News of the News .::. Size~: 118.65 KB | Nov 05 18:57 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Google Maps shows nonexistent city "Perth" http://is.gd/4O6UN | Nov 05 18:59 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Google Maps shows nonexistent city Perth - News of the News .::. Size~: 34.2 KB | Nov 05 18:59 |
DaemonFC | http://www.latimes.com/media/acrobat/2009-10/50159006.pdf | Nov 05 19:02 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Not a web page! Aborting application/pdf type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 05 19:02 |
DaemonFC | The birthers get shot down for good this time. | Nov 05 19:02 |
DaemonFC | good riddance | Nov 05 19:02 |
fewa | lol david | Nov 05 19:02 |
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] A motorcycle that runs #Linux http://ur1.ca/f7lm | Nov 05 19:03 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Mavizen's electric bike hits 130 MPH, ships with Linux and WiFi .::. Size~: 73.81 KB | Nov 05 19:03 |
DaemonFC | Hmmm, I wonder if they figured that mocking the court and trying to get "witnesses" to lie for you would make the court sympathetic to your case | Nov 05 19:04 |
DaemonFC | even if your case had constitutional merit, which this one did not | Nov 05 19:04 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] NotN: Device that "smells" snake oil could identify terrorists http://2tu.us/11d5 #patriotact | Nov 05 19:05 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Device that smells snake oil could identify terrorists - News of the News .::. Size~: 34.57 KB | Nov 05 19:05 |
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schestowitz | This show's pretty nice. http://linuxbasement.com/ | Nov 05 19:34 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Linux Basement | Linux Lurking Beneath .::. Size~: 33.13 KB | Nov 05 19:34 |
schestowitz | Hey, Mutex ( goasts ), how goes it? | Nov 05 19:34 |
*schestowitz has kicked goasts from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 05 19:36 | |
schestowitz | Mutex | Nov 05 19:36 |
schestowitz | nymshifting, almost surel;y him | Nov 05 19:36 |
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schestowitz | Reader says: | Nov 05 19:38 |
schestowitz | " | Nov 05 19:38 |
schestowitz | I hope Apache Foundation comes clean on the details. 'sponsorship' from | Nov 05 19:38 |
schestowitz | M$ usually comes with so many strings attached that its more like a | Nov 05 19:38 |
schestowitz | gill-net than a grant. | Nov 05 19:38 |
schestowitz | http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39860588,00.htm | Nov 05 19:38 |
schestowitz | " | Nov 05 19:38 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Top stories - ZDNet UK News .::. Size~: 118.8 KB | Nov 05 19:38 |
*schestowitz has kicked still-scared-eh from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 05 19:38 | |
*schestowitz sets ban on *!*@*.bigpond.net.au | Nov 05 19:38 | |
*fewa removes voice from sebsebseb | Nov 05 20:01 | |
*fewa gives voice to gargoyle-grin sebsebseb | Nov 05 20:01 | |
*fewa gives voice to jono | Nov 05 20:01 | |
*fewa gives voice to amarsh04_ | Nov 05 20:01 | |
schestowitz | http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/court-gets-torrent-full-about-linux | Nov 05 20:01 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Court Gets A Torrent-full About Linux | Linux Journal .::. Size~: 40.27 KB | Nov 05 20:01 |
schestowitz | Is it +R? | Nov 05 20:02 |
fewa | no | Nov 05 20:02 |
fewa | to check type /mode | Nov 05 20:02 |
schestowitz | So I guess voice doesn't make a different | Nov 05 20:02 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Federal Motors is dropping 10,000 more jobs. Who loses? The taxpayers, who didn't choose to buy this rubbish. | Nov 05 20:02 | |
schestowitz | I just felt quite bad today thinking that some people who came here couldn't talk and I wasn't aware of this | Nov 05 20:02 |
fewa | idk, they are hardly federal motors | Nov 05 20:02 |
schestowitz | That's the nasty effects of being hit by shills... they ruin it for everyone | Nov 05 20:03 |
fewa | the ones that really loose are the workers | Nov 05 20:03 |
schestowitz | I know. | Nov 05 20:03 |
fewa | who are highly skilled, and getting caught up in this abuse | Nov 05 20:03 |
schestowitz | They don't read me in Twatter [sic] | Nov 05 20:03 |
schestowitz | So I assume no offence is likely to incur self | Nov 05 20:03 |
schestowitz | fewa: but the world needs less -- not more -- cars | Nov 05 20:04 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, http://www.examiner.com/x-16500-Lake-County-Independent-Examiner~y2009m11d4-Economic-crisis-turning-dads-into-criminals?#comments | Nov 05 20:04 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Lake County Independent Examiner .::. Size~: 68.35 KB | Nov 05 20:04 |
DaemonFC | :P | Nov 05 20:04 |
schestowitz | They can hopefully swap direction | Nov 05 20:04 |
schestowitz | Something like solar panel manufacturing | Nov 05 20:04 |
fewa | schestowitz, yes Van Jones understands this http://www.democracynow.org/2008/10/28/van_jones_on_the_green_collar | Nov 05 20:05 |
fewa | best selling author | Nov 05 20:05 |
fewa | wind turbines are highly complicated | Nov 05 20:05 |
fewa | require same skill set as cars | Nov 05 20:05 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Van Jones on "The Green Collar Economy: How One Solution Can Fix Our Two Biggest Problems" .::. Size~: 35.71 KB | Nov 05 20:05 |
DaemonFC | I'd get a vasectomy were I straight | Nov 05 20:05 |
schestowitz | "Since being laid off, Dave had sent out hundreds of resumes and not one single interview. It wasn't Dave’s fault yet the child support bureau suspended his license and he was being hauled into court. Dave was now a criminal and said he would start robbing people to avoid going to jail." | Nov 05 20:05 |
DaemonFC | I'd find the budget for that | Nov 05 20:05 |
schestowitz | it sounds kinda third-world countryish | Nov 05 20:06 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: careful of your new neighbour | Nov 05 20:06 |
fewa | mens rights is a nasty issue | Nov 05 20:06 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: why vasectomy? | Nov 05 20:06 |
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DaemonFC | schestowitz, Pre-exposure prophylaxis | Nov 05 20:07 |
DaemonFC | B-) | Nov 05 20:07 |
schestowitz | It's like saying, hey, I don't use this car's radio, let's chuck it outta window | Nov 05 20:07 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Is it sad that whilst watching Spooks on BBC iplayer I saw G-TOPC on the choper pilot heaphones and googled it? http://bit.ly/1tUb8a #fb | Nov 05 20:07 | |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, No, you can still use it | Nov 05 20:07 |
fewa | lawl | Nov 05 20:07 |
DaemonFC | it just prevents some really bad consequences later | Nov 05 20:07 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: the radio, right? | Nov 05 20:07 |
DaemonFC | sterilizing yourself is like having immunity to GonoherpesyphilAIDS | Nov 05 20:08 |
DaemonFC | kids are like 5 times worse than anything else | Nov 05 20:08 |
schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZBN5hne_XI | Nov 05 20:08 |
schestowitz | That's the episode where he gets it | Nov 05 20:09 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, Child support insurance | Nov 05 20:09 |
DaemonFC | think of the cost of the surgery as like a 10% premium on 18 years of child support for 1 child | Nov 05 20:09 |
schestowitz | fewa: Al Jazeera uses a very unflattering photo for the GM aritlce | Nov 05 20:10 |
DaemonFC | or a 5% premium on 2 | Nov 05 20:10 |
DaemonFC | B-) | Nov 05 20:10 |
schestowitz | Are they suggesting US is angry and obese? | Nov 05 20:10 |
DaemonFC | or a 2.5% premium on 4 | Nov 05 20:10 |
DaemonFC | the more you screw around the more you save | Nov 05 20:11 |
DaemonFC | it's really rather like a discount card | Nov 05 20:11 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: when conditions are created whereby one has to commit theft then it's pretty grim | Nov 05 20:11 |
fewa | schestowitz, nah, cause Angela Merkel is just like that | Nov 05 20:11 |
schestowitz | I don't know if that story is true though | Nov 05 20:11 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, I doubt it | Nov 05 20:11 |
fewa | schestowitz, Les Miserables | Nov 05 20:11 |
schestowitz | If told by the criminal it can be embellished to fit a justification | Nov 05 20:12 |
DaemonFC | Sounds like right wingers trumping up a story to enrage people against "the democrats" | Nov 05 20:12 |
schestowitz | A lot of girls don't choose to get into prostitution (or pr0n). | Nov 05 20:12 |
fewa | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Misérables | Nov 05 20:12 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Les Misérables (musical) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 183.29 KB | Nov 05 20:12 |
schestowitz | right wingers = ringers | Nov 05 20:12 |
schestowitz | "Enter the ORLY ring" | Nov 05 20:13 |
schestowitz | "See the crazy bastard shout" | Nov 05 20:13 |
schestowitz | "So as I was saying... ORLY: WAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAH!!! You're an idiot WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!" | Nov 05 20:13 |
schestowitz | I can't even watch that show | Nov 05 20:14 |
schestowitz | Fox belongs in the zoo | Nov 05 20:14 |
schestowitz | Away from the hen house, too | Nov 05 20:14 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] #patriotact Issa: congress should let executive do anything that has not been explicitely declared unconstitutional What about his pledge? | Nov 05 20:15 | |
fewa | -BNc/#boycottnovell- [scientes] #Faux @MyFoxNY publishes bogus mayor election results that omits 3rd party votes http://ur1.ca/f7hn actual 50.6 to 46.0 http://ur1.ca/f7il | Nov 05 20:15 |
phIRCe-local | Title: 2009-Election-Results .::. Size~: 36.57 KB | Nov 05 20:15 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Mayor and Citywide Races - Election Results 2009 - The New York Times .::. Size~: 35.56 KB | Nov 05 20:15 |
schestowitz | http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/10/30/ http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/bizarre_cathedral_57 | Nov 05 20:17 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Penny Arcade! - In The Seventh House .::. Size~: 7.78 KB | Nov 05 20:17 |
phIRCe-local | Title: The Bizarre Cathedral - 57 .::. Size~: 35.75 KB | Nov 05 20:17 |
*amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04 | Nov 05 20:18 | |
schestowitz | http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/11/05/google-puts-all-of-your-personal-info-in-one-place | Nov 05 20:19 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Google Puts All of Your Personal Info in One Place | WebProNews .::. Size~: 34.31 KB | Nov 05 20:19 |
schestowitz | *Bush licks finger | Nov 05 20:22 |
schestowitz | A Sicilian offer some travellers won't be able to refuse http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2009/nov/03/sicily-holiday-mafia-addiopizzo-travel | Nov 05 20:24 |
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schestowitz | Aung San Suu Kyi meets senior US diplomat in Burma http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/04/suu-kyi-american-official-talks | Nov 05 20:25 |
schestowitz | http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/10/ff_waronscience/all/1 | Nov 05 20:26 |
phIRCe-local | Title: An Epidemic of Fear: How Panicked Parents Skipping Shots Endangers Us All | Magazine .::. Size~: 121.38 KB | Nov 05 20:26 |
schestowitz | ryan mentioned this earlier. | Nov 05 20:27 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Eat cereal or die" is the message PR people try to get across. http://ping.fm/B7B4F | Nov 05 20:28 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Critics blast Kellogg's claim that cereals can boost immunity - USATODAY.com .::. Size~: 67.81 KB | Nov 05 20:28 |
schestowitz | http://montclairsoci.blogspot.com/2009/11/top-of-charts.html | Nov 05 20:29 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Montclair SocioBlog: Top of the Charts .::. Size~: 101.13 KB | Nov 05 20:29 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Frio do crg :| | Nov 05 20:30 | |
*Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@93.102.85.234.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 05 20:33 | |
schestowitz | http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/thawte-to-offer-free-ssl,1028851.shtml | Nov 05 20:36 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Thawte to Offer Free SSL and Code Signing Certificates to Open Source Community .::. Size~: 57.95 KB | Nov 05 20:36 |
schestowitz | yawner: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=4443 | Nov 05 20:40 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How reputable (if at all) is Open Source Software Institute (OSSI) among #Freesoftware people? | Nov 05 20:46 | |
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oiaohm | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dxDVzby_XU This is impressive but kinda large video showing one of things put forward for the blender game engine. | Nov 05 20:50 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: you model in Blender? | Nov 05 20:52 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: some news... | Nov 05 20:52 |
schestowitz | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1561310/ballmer-half-heartedly-talks-windows | Nov 05 20:53 |
schestowitz | Vista 7 ain't selling | Nov 05 20:53 |
schestowitz | Tallken: http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/microsoft-takes-teachers-to-brazil--2354 | Nov 05 20:53 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft Takes Teachers To Brazil - News - eWeekEurope.co.uk .::. Size~: 22.67 KB | Nov 05 20:53 |
schestowitz | The location is not arbitrary; it must be part of the attempt to work like a totalitarian regime and shoot down anything that may seem like a threat, in this case Brazil raising its kids to be technologically independent with Free software, GNU/Linux included | Nov 05 20:53 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: I'll make it vid of the day (in links) | Nov 05 20:53 |
Tallken | schestowitz, LOL seems the kind of things pharmaceutical companies do with doctors :p | Nov 05 20:54 |
amarsh04 | was funny at work a few days ago, I was turning off pc's in a lab and one of them was at the # prompt | Nov 05 20:54 |
schestowitz | Tallken: in African and India | Nov 05 20:54 |
schestowitz | *Africa | Nov 05 20:55 |
schestowitz | Train them to buy the US wares | Nov 05 20:55 |
schestowitz | Or accept these as 'donations'... same with GM crops | Nov 05 20:55 |
amarsh04 | or as Alexi Sayle once said, get them to buy Kylie Minogue records | Nov 05 20:56 |
schestowitz | I never thought of that... | Nov 05 20:57 |
oiaohm | schestowitz: Not exactly model. I use blender for video production for presitations | Nov 05 20:58 |
schestowitz | Getting people to cherish music and films from Hollywood is quite a challenge. If you can get people to turn away from local folklore and cuisine, then they buy US CDs (imported) and dine in Burger King | Nov 05 20:58 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: why not movie editor? | Nov 05 20:58 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: and it's just a renderer, no? | Nov 05 20:58 |
schestowitz | I assumed it's like povray+editor for objects | Nov 05 20:59 |
oiaohm | Blender node system can do lot better special effects on videos than most of the movie editor. | Nov 05 20:59 |
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oiaohm | Blender is part renderer part movie editor. | Nov 05 20:59 |
oiaohm | and part game engine. | Nov 05 20:59 |
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schestowitz | Suggested packages: | Nov 05 21:00 |
schestowitz | yafray gettext-doc | Nov 05 21:00 |
schestowitz | The following NEW packages will be installed | Nov 05 21:00 |
schestowitz | blender cvs gettext libalut0 libftgl2 libopenal1 | Nov 05 21:00 |
schestowitz | 0 upgraded, 6 newly installed, 0 to remove and 528 not upgraded. | Nov 05 21:00 |
schestowitz | Need to get 14.6MB of archives. | Nov 05 21:00 |
schestowitz | After this operation, 40.4MB of additional disk space will be used. | Nov 05 21:00 |
schestowitz | Do you want to continue [Y/n]? | Nov 05 21:00 |
schestowitz | Just 40 MB, oiaohm? | Nov 05 21:00 |
oiaohm | Blender is small its interface is strange schestowitz | Nov 05 21:00 |
schestowitz | I use kdenlive for editing videos for presntation | Nov 05 21:01 |
oiaohm | Yet it is insanely powerful. | Nov 05 21:01 |
schestowitz | http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Hole-in-the-Linux-kernel-allows-root-access-850016.html | Nov 05 21:01 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Hole in the Linux kernel allows root access - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 30.8 KB | Nov 05 21:01 |
schestowitz | Now Heise too? | Nov 05 21:01 |
schestowitz | I wonder if Gavin and others just try to mock 9.10 without reason that's out of the ordinary | Nov 05 21:01 |
schestowitz | They report incidents, not stats | Nov 05 21:01 |
Diablo-D3 | actually, 9.10 is pretty much a failure | Nov 05 21:02 |
Diablo-D3 | 9.10 needs a service pack badly | Nov 05 21:02 |
schestowitz | 9.10.1? | Nov 05 21:02 |
schestowitz | Mine works OK | Nov 05 21:02 |
schestowitz | with kde-desktop/kubuntu-desktop | Nov 05 21:02 |
Diablo-D3 | a lot of people are having problems | Nov 05 21:02 |
sebsebseb | Diablo-D3: indeed | Nov 05 21:02 |
schestowitz | But I intend to move back to Mandriva or Fedora | Nov 05 21:02 |
sebsebseb | Diablo-D3: after upgrades mainly though it seems | Nov 05 21:02 |
schestowitz | Yes | Nov 05 21:03 |
Diablo-D3 | sebsebseb: well, most ubuntu users already exist | Nov 05 21:03 |
Diablo-D3 | so it would be with upgrades | Nov 05 21:03 |
schestowitz | Upgrades is what people say | Nov 05 21:03 |
oiaohm | http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/blender-242/blender-composite-nodes/ Node engine schestowitz this is used in its avi file joining stage. kdenlive is lacking this. | Nov 05 21:03 |
schestowitz | They can do clean installs | Nov 05 21:03 |
phIRCe-local | Title: blender.org - Blender Composite Nodes .::. Size~: 42.64 KB | Nov 05 21:03 |
Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: also, fuck you, fedora and mandriva suck | Nov 05 21:03 |
oiaohm | I have found something strange with kubunut. | Nov 05 21:03 |
Diablo-D3 | use debian. | Nov 05 21:03 |
schestowitz | I never update distro in place. Never even tried | Nov 05 21:03 |
oiaohm | I have a defective kubuntu disk that passes MD5 | Nov 05 21:03 |
Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: erm, then you fail at debian-based distros | Nov 05 21:03 |
schestowitz | /update/upgrade/ | Nov 05 21:03 |
oiaohm | Ie I have 2 Kubuntu iso's. | Nov 05 21:04 |
Diablo-D3 | thats what apt-get has reliably been doing for over 10 years. | Nov 05 21:04 |
oiaohm | Both pass MD5 | Nov 05 21:04 |
oiaohm | Only 1 works Diablo-D3 | Nov 05 21:04 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: yes, but who cares | Nov 05 21:04 |
schestowitz | Mandriva is fantastic actually | Nov 05 21:04 |
Diablo-D3 | you should be using debian anyhow | Nov 05 21:04 |
oiaohm | That means something in that iso is allowing MD5 colliosions. Diablo-D3 | Nov 05 21:05 |
oiaohm | Thinking debian package management depends on MD5 this is not good. | Nov 05 21:05 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: no, it means MD5 should not be used for checksums on large objects | Nov 05 21:05 |
Diablo-D3 | and no, debian package management does not depend on md5 | Nov 05 21:05 |
oiaohm | What are they checksuming with Diablo-D3 | Nov 05 21:05 |
MinceR | i tend to upgrade distros in place | Nov 05 21:06 |
Diablo-D3 | sha256 | Nov 05 21:06 |
voltronw | Diablo-D3: you running stable or unstable? | Nov 05 21:06 |
oiaohm | Up until now natual forming colliosions of md5 have not happen. | Nov 05 21:06 |
Diablo-D3 | voltronw: sid. | Nov 05 21:07 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: md5 is not a secure hash. | Nov 05 21:07 |
oiaohm | It would just have to be kubuntu that gets natural forming. | Nov 05 21:07 |
Diablo-D3 | so yes, large files can fuck it up | Nov 05 21:07 |
schestowitz | DJIA above 10k again.. | Nov 05 21:07 |
oiaohm | sha256 also can screw on large files. | Nov 05 21:07 |
Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: more useless numbers | Nov 05 21:07 |
schestowitz | Banksters rejoice | Nov 05 21:07 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: nope. | Nov 05 21:07 |
oiaohm | All checksums can Diablo-D3 | Nov 05 21:08 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: nope. | Nov 05 21:08 |
Diablo-D3 | that actually is very untrue. | Nov 05 21:08 |
schestowitz | Diablo-D3: yes, that number of bankers is useless | Nov 05 21:08 |
schestowitz | Meta-industry | Nov 05 21:08 |
oiaohm | Its very true Diablo-D3 | Nov 05 21:08 |
Diablo-D3 | its actually possible to make a checksum that is safe for files under a certain size. | Nov 05 21:08 |
schestowitz | Speculators... pushing papers and stuff | Nov 05 21:08 |
oiaohm | Only if the checksum is basically 1 to 1 Diablo-D3 | Nov 05 21:09 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: nope | Nov 05 21:09 |
oiaohm | There is no nope about it. | Nov 05 21:09 |
Diablo-D3 | well, yeah, if you fail at math, sure. | Nov 05 21:10 |
oiaohm | Every style of undefeatable checksum has a flaw. | Nov 05 21:10 |
oiaohm | ECC fails with multi bit failures. | Nov 05 21:10 |
oiaohm | Same is true for all checksums supporting large than there size. | Nov 05 21:11 |
schestowitz | http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20091104005386&newsLang=en | Nov 05 21:11 |
Diablo-D3 | please provide a mathematical proof stating so | Nov 05 21:11 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Freescale Extends Product Family That Pioneered the Smartbook Category to Address Additional Embedded Markets .::. Size~: 57.57 KB | Nov 05 21:11 |
schestowitz | Linux netbooks | Nov 05 21:11 |
Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: old news | Nov 05 21:12 |
schestowitz | With ARM | Nov 05 21:12 |
schestowitz | New press release | Nov 05 21:12 |
Diablo-D3 | old news. | Nov 05 21:12 |
Diablo-D3 | hell, someone was already shipping the damn things last year | Nov 05 21:12 |
*schestowitz nibbles on a straw | Nov 05 21:12 | |
schestowitz | Microsoft commits suicide here: | Nov 05 21:13 |
schestowitz | http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,10014364o-2000667842b,00.htm | Nov 05 21:13 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Community on ZDNet UK .::. Size~: 121.15 KB | Nov 05 21:13 |
schestowitz | Starter "junk" edition | Nov 05 21:13 |
schestowitz | Who in their sane mind would buy crippleware? | Nov 05 21:14 |
oiaohm | Diablo-D3: there many math proofs. Even on your prized SHA256. Causing duplicate numbers on the same size file to be generated. Same fault that exists in ECC exists in them all. If multi bits of data are wrong. | Nov 05 21:15 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: no, sha256 is not perfect | Nov 05 21:16 |
Diablo-D3 | and sha256 is not error correction | Nov 05 21:16 |
Diablo-D3 | its used for error detection | Nov 05 21:16 |
MinceR | it's used pretty much anywhere a one-way hash function is needed :> | Nov 05 21:18 |
oiaohm | You can reduce the chances of colide by using more checksums but the rules don't change. Checksum only reduce problitity of defect slipping past. Don't stop it 100 percent never can by maths until it gets to 1 to 1 effectively undermining the point of check suming. | Nov 05 21:18 |
fewa | meh with a sha512 you are doing pretty well | Nov 05 21:19 |
oiaohm | all systems should have a raw binary compare fall back just for when things go strange. | Nov 05 21:20 |
fewa | or just time stamps | Nov 05 21:20 |
fewa | that takes care of the collision problems | Nov 05 21:20 |
oiaohm | Nice theory. | Nov 05 21:21 |
oiaohm | Say hello to murfy and data screw ups fewa | Nov 05 21:21 |
MinceR | Murphy. | Nov 05 21:21 |
oiaohm | No matter how good your theory it a event will kick you in teeth. | Nov 05 21:22 |
fewa | well time stamps only work if you can serialize your input | Nov 05 21:22 |
fewa | but you could have both | Nov 05 21:22 |
fewa | "In theory, theory and practice are the same, in practice, they are not" | Nov 05 21:23 |
oiaohm | The odds of a natually forming MD5 hit by theory is over a trillion to one. | Nov 05 21:23 |
fewa | oiaohm, birthday problem | Nov 05 21:23 |
fewa | its actually quite likely | Nov 05 21:23 |
fewa | thats why timestamps are useful | Nov 05 21:24 |
fewa | no birthday problem with timestamps | Nov 05 21:24 |
schestowitz | MinceR: smurfy | Nov 05 21:24 |
oiaohm | Yet kubuntu 32bit 9.10 seams to be doing quite perfectly. | Nov 05 21:24 |
MinceR | schestowitz: i was thinking of that too | Nov 05 21:24 |
DaemonFC | I went down to the grocery store and dumped $2.14 in pennies into the self checkout for two 2 liters of soda | Nov 05 21:24 |
DaemonFC | :) | Nov 05 21:24 |
DaemonFC | I love doing things like that | Nov 05 21:25 |
schestowitz | wash your hand afterwards | Nov 05 21:25 |
schestowitz | I have like 20 KG of coins here | Nov 05 21:25 |
schestowitz | I can't be bothered to use them | Nov 05 21:25 |
oiaohm | Note the 64 bit version of kubuntu 9.10 does not seam to have the problem. There is murphy for you. It the one with the highest numbers of downloaders. | Nov 05 21:25 |
schestowitz | It just keeps piling up | Nov 05 21:26 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, Make everyone wait behind you in line while you dump them into the self checkout | Nov 05 21:26 |
DaemonFC | filling up the coin storage thing with pennies and making that checkout shut down is even funnier | Nov 05 21:27 |
DaemonFC | though that didn't happen today | Nov 05 21:27 |
fewa | There are so many house of reps that have no respect for the constitution | Nov 05 21:27 |
fewa | if it hasn't been declared unconstitutional its not their business.... | Nov 05 21:28 |
DaemonFC | fewa, everyone says that whenever something they don't like is going on | Nov 05 21:28 |
fewa | DaemonFC, not at all | Nov 05 21:28 |
DaemonFC | fewa, Where was your "constitutional crisis" when they were giving special rights to religious people in 1968? | Nov 05 21:28 |
DaemonFC | WHERE? | Nov 05 21:28 |
fewa | DaemonFC, first explain yourself | Nov 05 21:29 |
fewa | you mean "In god we trust"? | Nov 05 21:29 |
DaemonFC | how many religious people want religion to be removed as a protected class from anti-discrimination and hate crime laws? | Nov 05 21:29 |
DaemonFC | that's what I mean | Nov 05 21:29 |
fewa | people who hold and religion are protected | Nov 05 21:29 |
fewa | thats in the constitution | Nov 05 21:29 |
DaemonFC | that's against the constitution | Nov 05 21:29 |
DaemonFC | the constitution only protects them from government interference | Nov 05 21:29 |
DaemonFC | not employment discrimination or "hate crimes" | Nov 05 21:30 |
fewa | yes, the government cannot intervene | Nov 05 21:30 |
fewa | cannot bias one over another | Nov 05 21:30 |
DaemonFC | so why do they get to be a special protected class? | Nov 05 21:30 |
fewa | they are not | Nov 05 21:30 |
fewa | they mandate non-distrimination | Nov 05 21:30 |
DaemonFC | Why is it a crime to fire some religious person for believing in a false god when you can fire anyone else for any reason at all? | Nov 05 21:30 |
DaemonFC | Why is it two crimes to kill a religious person when killing someone else is only one crime? | Nov 05 21:31 |
fewa | DaemonFC, it has to do with the megacorps | Nov 05 21:31 |
fewa | which are an extention of the government | Nov 05 21:31 |
DaemonFC | if adding gays and lesbians to the hate crimes act and the anti-discrimination laws is unconstitutional, they also need to repeal the special protections for religious people | Nov 05 21:32 |
DaemonFC | then everyone can get equal justice under the law, right? | Nov 05 21:32 |
fewa | DaemonFC, these things are not against the constituion | Nov 05 21:32 |
DaemonFC | I mean, religion doesn't want us all to be equal | Nov 05 21:32 |
fewa | look at the constitution | Nov 05 21:32 |
fewa | tell me where that is prohibited | Nov 05 21:33 |
DaemonFC | religion wants religious people to have full benefit of citizenship and everyone else is a peon | Nov 05 21:33 |
DaemonFC | to be tortured or humiliated to the will of the religious | Nov 05 21:33 |
fewa | What I am referring to is a corrosion of the fourth amendment | Nov 05 21:33 |
fewa | saying that people cannot be secure in their persons | Nov 05 21:33 |
fewa | that the executive, the feds can break in on whoever they want, and spy on them | Nov 05 21:33 |
fewa | and also, that they need not get a warrent | Nov 05 21:33 |
fewa | this is horribly against the fourth amendment | Nov 05 21:34 |
DaemonFC | fewa, The Feds also say the 4th amendment doesn't apply within 100 miles of an international border | Nov 05 21:34 |
DaemonFC | !google constitution free zone | Nov 05 21:34 |
phIRCe-local | [1] - American Civil Liberties Union : Surveillance Society Clock | http://www.aclu.org/privacy/spying/areyoulivinginaconstitutionfreezone.html | Nov 05 21:34 |
phIRCe-local | [2] - The Raw Story | ACLU highlights 'Constitution-Free Zone' 100 miles ... | http://rawstory.com/news/2008/ACLU_highlights_ConstitutionFree_Zone_100_miles_1022.html | Nov 05 21:34 |
phIRCe-local | [3] - U.S. "Constitution Free Zone" | http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php%3Fcontext%3Dva%26aid%3D10665 | Nov 05 21:34 |
phIRCe-local | [4] - Do You Live In A "Constitution Free" Zone? » Propeller | http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/01/06/do-you-live-in-a-quotconstitution-freequot-zone/ | Nov 05 21:34 |
fewa | DaemonFC, thats bullshit | Nov 05 21:34 |
oiaohm | Ok please don't use religion as blanket statements. Buddhists and some other religions are not like that. | Nov 05 21:34 |
oiaohm | DaemonFC: | Nov 05 21:34 |
DaemonFC | http://www.aclu.org/national-security_technology-and-liberty/are-you-living-constitution-free-zone | Nov 05 21:34 |
fewa | yes DaemonFC is a bigot | Nov 05 21:34 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Are You Living in a Constitution Free Zone? | American Civil Liberties Union .::. Size~: 43.82 KB | Nov 05 21:34 |
fewa | DaemonFC, tone down the rhetoric/hate | Nov 05 21:35 |
fewa | Also, I don't see what is unconstitutional about what you are saying DaemonFC | Nov 05 21:35 |
oiaohm | A lot of people follow religions that suck. Even worse people after all these years people don't understand there religion so causing problems. | Nov 05 21:35 |
oiaohm | I hear christians bring out the good smaritian statement over and over and forget that person was non christian. | Nov 05 21:36 |
oiaohm | Lot of religions make those points even in the muslim book there is the same statement. Basically you should judge a person on there actions not there religion | Nov 05 21:37 |
schestowitz | http://www.pendrivelinux.com/cairo-dock-black-background-fix/ | Nov 05 21:37 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Cairo Dock Black Background Fix | USB Pen Drive Linux .::. Size~: 26.44 KB | Nov 05 21:37 |
schestowitz | [21:26] <DaemonFC> schestowitz, Make everyone wait behind you in line while you dump them into the self checkout | Nov 05 21:37 |
oiaohm | its repeated over and over gain. | Nov 05 21:37 |
schestowitz | I separate by coin type | Nov 05 21:37 |
schestowitz | But there ought to be machines that do this and count also | Nov 05 21:37 |
schestowitz | re "constitution free zone" | Nov 05 21:38 |
schestowitz | There's that place that supposedly is part of Cuba | Nov 05 21:38 |
fewa | yes | Nov 05 21:38 |
schestowitz | But the US says it's Cuban | Nov 05 21:38 |
schestowitz | Cuba says, "but the US stole it from us" | Nov 05 21:38 |
fewa | the place they took by gun point from Cuba | Nov 05 21:38 |
schestowitz | And back and forth it goes | Nov 05 21:38 |
schestowitz | No juristriction | Nov 05 21:38 |
fewa | so they can say "its not ours, there is no jurisdiction" | Nov 05 21:38 |
schestowitz | Land without law | Nov 05 21:39 |
fewa | and other absurdity | Nov 05 21:39 |
schestowitz | The only law they know it leverage... of rendition and art and extreme 'cute' interrparties... | Nov 05 21:39 |
*Diablo-D3 has quit ("do coders dream of sheep()?") | Nov 05 21:39 | |
fewa | the president has way too much power | Nov 05 21:39 |
schestowitz | Sometimes they have parties where everyone is naked | Nov 05 21:39 |
schestowitz | ANd the part dogs come out to play | Nov 05 21:39 |
fewa | much more than was granted by the constitution | Nov 05 21:39 |
fewa | undeclared wars | Nov 05 21:39 |
schestowitz | They play drinking games | Nov 05 21:39 |
schestowitz | Where you pour the water while the dude doesn't know who's doing it (blindfolded) | Nov 05 21:40 |
fewa | the US hanged japaneese that did that to americans | Nov 05 21:40 |
fewa | (waterboarding) | Nov 05 21:40 |
schestowitz | Sounds fan | Nov 05 21:40 |
schestowitz | Water... boards | Nov 05 21:40 |
fewa | drowning | Nov 05 21:40 |
fewa | they drown the victims | Nov 05 21:40 |
schestowitz | Like waterpark attraction | Nov 05 21:41 |
fewa | to the point where they feel like they are going to die | Nov 05 21:41 |
oiaohm | Water boarding the way it done cannot drown target fewa | Nov 05 21:41 |
schestowitz | "Kids, kids.. who want to do the waterboarding?" | Nov 05 21:41 |
schestowitz | kid: water boards sounds like fun | Nov 05 21:41 |
schestowitz | "Kids, kids.. who want to do the waterboarding?" | Nov 05 21:41 |
fewa | oiaohm, it does drown, just not to death | Nov 05 21:41 |
schestowitz | kid: me me me!! | Nov 05 21:41 |
oiaohm | But will make person fell like they are drowing fewa | Nov 05 21:41 |
schestowitz | It's all euphemism | Nov 05 21:41 |
schestowitz | Rendition... | Nov 05 21:41 |
fewa | oiaohm, it is drowning | Nov 05 21:41 |
fewa | just not to death | Nov 05 21:41 |
schestowitz | Let's call death by hanging "Dancing with the stars" | Nov 05 21:42 |
oiaohm | Waterboard angle avoids filling lungs that is a requirement to drown fewa | Nov 05 21:42 |
oiaohm | And also don't not block breathing fully. | Nov 05 21:42 |
oiaohm | Basically to point just before you start drowning fewa | Nov 05 21:42 |
fewa | oiaohm, go experience it, and then say its not drowning | Nov 05 21:42 |
schestowitz | !youtube reporter tries waterboarding | Nov 05 21:43 |
schestowitz | !google youtube reporter tries waterboarding | Nov 05 21:43 |
phIRCe-local | [1] - YouTube - Waterboarding, Obama and Wanda Sykes and Pelosi ... | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D_rLQlPgv_0U | Nov 05 21:43 |
phIRCe-local | [2] - Video: Reporter gets waterboarded for his story, doesn't like it ... | http://www.ihatethemedia.com/video-playboy-reporter-gets-waterboarded-for-his-story | Nov 05 21:43 |
phIRCe-local | [3] - Video - Tea Bagger On Waterboarding Obama - White House | http://beltwayblips.dailyradar.com/video/tea_bagger_on_waterboarding_obama/ | Nov 05 21:43 |
phIRCe-local | [4] - Reporter Takes WATER BOARDING to see if its Torture. VERY ... | http://www.mrfeature.com/media.php%3Fname%3D3130-reporter-takes-water-boarding-to-see-if-its-torture.-very-interesting | Nov 05 21:43 |
oiaohm | Note I said makes person fell like they are drowning fewa. | Nov 05 21:43 |
oiaohm | Its basically a enchanged version of the old slow drop of water on head fewa. | Nov 05 21:44 |
fewa | chinese water torture | Nov 05 21:44 |
fewa | nothing like it | Nov 05 21:44 |
fewa | its totally differn't | Nov 05 21:44 |
fewa | chinese water torture does not create the sensation of death | Nov 05 21:45 |
fewa | of imminent death | Nov 05 21:45 |
oiaohm | Both are based on the same idea. To break a person will. fewa enchanged should been enhanced ie targeting a point to make the effect more nasty. | Nov 05 21:47 |
*PeterKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 05 21:47 | |
schestowitz | jono: ping | Nov 05 21:47 |
fewa | the chinese water torture is a horrible bruise | Nov 05 21:47 |
oiaohm | So instead of a drop hitting head getting the sensation of death over and over again. | Nov 05 21:48 |
fewa | its very differn't | Nov 05 21:48 |
fewa | both are torture | Nov 05 21:48 |
oiaohm | Same base idea is behind both. | Nov 05 21:48 |
fewa | torture | Nov 05 21:48 |
oiaohm | Repeat and Repeat until person breaks. | Nov 05 21:48 |
fewa | there are many forms of torture | Nov 05 21:48 |
fewa | and all torture has that theme | Nov 05 21:48 |
schestowitz | jono: I've been seeing a lot of exaggerated belated report slamming 9.10 cause Vista 7 does not sell well. Is it true based on your experience that 9.10 was a decent (or as normal) release?\ | Nov 05 21:48 |
oiaohm | Not all fewa | Nov 05 21:48 |
schestowitz | [21:40] <fewa> the US hanged japaneese that did that to americans | Nov 05 21:49 |
oiaohm | Some of the old torture systems work on disorentation. | Nov 05 21:49 |
schestowitz | In end of WW2 they were also jailed for just being US Japanese | Nov 05 21:49 |
fewa | water boarding | Nov 05 21:49 |
oiaohm | Where you keep a person in a highly random envorment. | Nov 05 21:49 |
fewa | schestowitz, yes, Alien Enemies Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_and_Sedition_Acts | Nov 05 21:50 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Alien and Sedition Acts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 37.25 KB | Nov 05 21:50 |
oiaohm | Something the human brain does not particularly like fewa | Nov 05 21:50 |
voltronw | oiaohm: highly random? like #boycottnovell? | Nov 05 21:50 |
fewa | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment | Nov 05 21:50 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Japanese American internment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 221.39 KB | Nov 05 21:50 |
fewa | schestowitz, it also happened in Canada | Nov 05 21:51 |
fewa | look at David Suzuki | Nov 05 21:51 |
schestowitz | http://technologytales.com/2009/11/04/a-case-of-double-vision/ | Nov 05 21:51 |
oiaohm | No voltronw this is like moving beds food what ever sleep patern distubing. Basically to get person questioning there own sanity. Everyone around them acting like its normal. | Nov 05 21:51 |
schestowitz | fewa: around WW2 it was also said they if you served a German in the UK you should throw the soup in his/her face. Can't recall what said that...... | Nov 05 21:52 |
voltronw | oiaohm: aside from the beds and food, that actually describes this channel pretty well | Nov 05 21:52 |
schestowitz | Basically classifications by nationality | Nov 05 21:52 |
fewa | schestowitz, the US elites were good friends with the Nazis | Nov 05 21:52 |
fewa | same in UK | Nov 05 21:52 |
schestowitz | Wait. | Nov 05 21:52 |
fewa | but moreso in US | Nov 05 21:52 |
schestowitz | Before or after? | Nov 05 21:52 |
fewa | before | Nov 05 21:52 |
schestowitz | [the war] | Nov 05 21:52 |
schestowitz | I know | Nov 05 21:52 |
fewa | starting around 31 | Nov 05 21:52 |
fewa | they loved Nazis | Nov 05 21:52 |
fewa | as they were the buffer against communism | Nov 05 21:52 |
oiaohm | voltronw: but people here know that is random. You don't have people making out nothing has changed and its just your mind playing tricks on you. voltronw | Nov 05 21:53 |
schestowitz | Goebbels has some videos hanging out with US pres | Nov 05 21:53 |
fewa | It is usually forgotten that the corporations were the extrasoverign entities during the war | Nov 05 21:53 |
fewa | the war did not stop the business of coca-cola, which sold on both sides | Nov 05 21:53 |
fewa | create Fanta | Nov 05 21:53 |
fewa | massive investments in Nazi regime | Nov 05 21:54 |
schestowitz | http://gnuru.org/article/1486/debian-public-keys-error-2 | Nov 05 21:55 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Gnuru.org | Productive Linux | Debian Public Keys Error 2 .::. Size~: 18.66 KB | Nov 05 21:55 |
schestowitz | IBM | Nov 05 21:55 |
schestowitz | And then you have the similar issue in Europe | Nov 05 21:55 |
schestowitz | Inside Europe | Nov 05 21:55 |
schestowitz | Rothschild loans... | Nov 05 21:55 |
schestowitz | In retrospect there are many regrets | Nov 05 21:55 |
schestowitz | IBM also.. | Nov 05 21:55 |
schestowitz | They never got over it | Nov 05 21:56 |
fewa | because the Nazi's stood behind the opulent | Nov 05 21:56 |
fewa | "They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority." | Nov 05 21:56 |
schestowitz | http://nobelprize.org/nomination/peace/nomination.php?action=show&showid=2609 | Nov 05 21:56 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Nomination database .::. Size~: 13.15 KB | Nov 05 21:56 |
oiaohm | http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/court-gets-torrent-full-about-linux LOL | Nov 05 21:57 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Court Gets A Torrent-full About Linux | Linux Journal .::. Size~: 41.32 KB | Nov 05 21:57 |
schestowitz | http://www.thelinuxblog.com/backup-dvds-on-linux/ | Nov 05 21:57 |
phIRCe-local | Title: The Linux Blog » Backup your DVDs on Linux .::. Size~: 20.58 KB | Nov 05 21:57 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: aye | Nov 05 21:57 |
schestowitz | Original in IDG AU | Nov 05 21:58 |
oiaohm | Big thing the copy right holders miss. | Nov 05 22:01 |
oiaohm | Linux distibution does not need encrypted torrents. | Nov 05 22:01 |
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schestowitz | http://jquelin.blogspot.com/2009/11/state-of-perl-in-mandriva-2010.html | Nov 05 22:03 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Jerome Quelin: the state of perl in mandriva 2010 .::. Size~: 70.18 KB | Nov 05 22:03 |
schestowitz | http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2009/11/05/you-dont-need-to-convert-them/ | Nov 05 22:07 |
schestowitz | "Recently a friend of mine approached me with a weird question: how to install Windows on a machine without a CD or Floppy drive. I was intrigued. The obvious question here was “why?” It turned out that he just ordered himself one of those Dell Mini notebooks. Naturally, like every living being on planet Earth my friend hates Windows Vista with a passion and as a result he didn’t really feel like paying a Vista tax. So he | Nov 05 22:07 |
schestowitz | opted for the Ubuntu version with the intention of installing his copy of Windows XP on the machine. But while he was in the cost saving mode, he also decided not to purchase the optional external CD drive." | Nov 05 22:07 |
phIRCe-local | Title: You dont need to convert them& « Terminally Incoherent .::. Size~: 53.33 KB | Nov 05 22:07 |
schestowitz | :-/ | Nov 05 22:07 |
schestowitz | Can anyone access http://blog.flameeyes.eu/2009/11/05/distributions-are-the-strength-of-linux ? | Nov 05 22:08 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 05 22:08 |
schestowitz | http://www.igneousquill.net/2009/11/foss-fud-and-freeloaders.html | Nov 05 22:11 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Igneous Quill: FOSS, FUD and Freeloaders .::. Size~: 140.08 KB | Nov 05 22:11 |
schestowitz | FOSS, FUD and Freeloaders - "FUD is what curmudgeonly, anti-social geeks squeal any time any criticisms of FOSS or GNU/Linux are raised. Even if one is a Linux enthusiast, as I am, the accusation can be leveled. So, my friendly criticisms of GNU/Linux make me as much a FUD-spreader in some people's eyes as my disillusionment with Churches of Christ made me "unfaithful" in the view of others." | Nov 05 22:11 |
schestowitz | They attack the wrong person. Ouch. | Nov 05 22:11 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Today I (a) got Notes to work in Ubuntu (b) got my boss to heartily approve me using Ubuntu officially. WIN. | Nov 05 22:14 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] They are apparently considering dumping Notes for ... Outlook. That said, Notes is actually more horrible than Outlook. Gmail for business? | Nov 05 22:14 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] @davidgerard what about squirrelmail? Or Kolab2/Horde http://squirrelmail.org/ http://www.kolab.org/ | Nov 05 22:16 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: SquirrelMail - Webmail for Nuts! .::. Size~: 11.24 KB | Nov 05 22:16 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Kolab Groupware:: Home .::. Size~: 9.29 KB | Nov 05 22:16 |
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schestowitz | I love Horde | Nov 05 22:19 |
schestowitz | Used it for many years almost exclusively | Nov 05 22:19 |
schestowitz | I'm still on their mailing list | Nov 05 22:19 |
*schestowitz watches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL5iPKTzXAE | Nov 05 22:22 | |
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schestowitz | fewa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umawimGQpY0&NR=1 | Nov 05 22:35 |
fewa | he didn't ask the question | Nov 05 22:35 |
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fewa | just a jackass | Nov 05 22:36 |
fewa | its a political attack cause they don't like him | Nov 05 22:36 |
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fewa | and it doesn't say who the cameraman is | Nov 05 22:37 |
schestowitz | Yes, he should have ignored | Nov 05 22:37 |
schestowitz | They harass to provoke for response | Nov 05 22:37 |
schestowitz | I was once stupid enough to react to these tactics... | Nov 05 22:37 |
fewa | here is the jackass http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icZ_Xci3sEw | Nov 05 22:37 |
fewa | a anti-union neocon/neoliberal | Nov 05 22:38 |
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fewa | "stroking the fires of discontent" | Nov 05 22:39 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Acreditam que tenho uma drive de disquetes mas nunca a acabei por usar... pelo menos que eu me lembre... | Nov 05 22:42 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Vou fazer umas flexões e uns abdominais para aquecer... | Nov 05 22:43 | |
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schestowitz | fewa: I see.... | Nov 05 22:45 |
schestowitz | I'm finishing the Warren session | Nov 05 22:46 |
schestowitz | min50 @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1Uk-DwUvJw | Nov 05 22:46 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @AllAboutRace @tamenem LOATHE media' endless speculation abt motivation & inner dialogue. Daily Show good sec on this http://ur1.ca/f853 | Nov 05 22:47 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: Video: Indecision 2009 - Reindecision 2008 And Beyond | The Daily Show | Comedy Central .::. Size~: 73.46 KB | Nov 05 22:47 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Done... mas ainda estou com frio :| | Nov 05 22:48 | |
fewa | see how the Huffington Post was actually polite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1o1p_ly7Yw | Nov 05 22:50 |
fewa | but still was sorta rude | Nov 05 22:51 |
fewa | I've never been sure what to think of huffington post | Nov 05 22:51 |
fewa | they are quite sensationalist | Nov 05 22:51 |
fewa | schestowitz, on the Warren interview, I skipped the end cause it was a rehash of the Collapse of the Middle Class speech, but without the nice diagrams | Nov 05 22:52 |
schestowitz | OK, finished it | Nov 05 22:53 |
schestowitz | Heh. | Nov 05 22:55 |
schestowitz | They still play that "obama born in Kenya" lie | Nov 05 22:55 |
fewa | Still would do more good to focus on more serious issues | Nov 05 22:56 |
fewa | they did polls | Nov 05 22:56 |
fewa | and in the last few years there was a huge loss in interest in gay marriage | Nov 05 22:57 |
fewa | you just have to give people something else to think about | Nov 05 22:57 |
fewa | and homosexual domestic parnerships | Nov 05 22:57 |
fewa | Obama's election and the economy changed the debate | Nov 05 22:58 |
fewa | TO things that matter for everyday life: like health care | Nov 05 22:58 |
fewa | that is very benificial | Nov 05 22:58 |
schestowitz | That lost guy gave a good answer | Nov 05 22:58 |
schestowitz | I can't stand YouTUbe comments | Nov 05 22:58 |
schestowitz | Too many nutcase seem to have taken over them in political vids | Nov 05 22:59 |
fewa | The propaganda model succeeds when it can distract from the real issues | Nov 05 23:00 |
schestowitz | Nutcases; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILmqq_4QyhI&NR=1&feature=fvwp | Nov 05 23:01 |
voltronw | schestowitz: http://lifehacker.com/software/exclusive-lifehacker-download/better-youtube-firefox-extension-319925.php | Nov 05 23:01 |
phIRCe-local | Title: Better YouTube Firefox Extension - - Lifehacker .::. Size~: 67.56 KB | Nov 05 23:01 |
fewa | staying away from wedge issues | Nov 05 23:01 |
fewa | move from issues of opinion, to issues of life and death | Nov 05 23:02 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Já fui tarde demais :| | Nov 05 23:02 | |
DaemonFC | I don't even know why people are pushing for same-sex marriage, honestly | Nov 05 23:02 |
DaemonFC | I mean, I'm not saying that cause I'm a gay basher (I am gay), I just think marriage is a retarded idea | Nov 05 23:03 |
DaemonFC | it's an archaic, failed institution | Nov 05 23:03 |
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DaemonFC | it causes a lot of grief and money and court room time, and other unnecessary crap WHEN it comes time for a divorce | Nov 05 23:04 |
DaemonFC | now if you're one of the 10% or so that does manage to stay married til you die, congratulations | Nov 05 23:04 |
schestowitz | fewa: going for emotion | Nov 05 23:05 |
DaemonFC | *causes = costs | Nov 05 23:05 |
schestowitz | I think is part it remains for many reasons | Nov 05 23:05 |
DaemonFC | besides, just look at what the gay personals sections on Craigslist are | Nov 05 23:05 |
schestowitz | practical reasons | Nov 05 23:05 |
DaemonFC | not the "casual encounters", the "personals" | Nov 05 23:06 |
schestowitz | Including assistance from state raising more citizens | Nov 05 23:06 |
DaemonFC | they look the same, exactly the same | Nov 05 23:06 |
DaemonFC | all sex, all the time | Nov 05 23:06 |
fewa | DaemonFC, there are many rights associated with marriage | Nov 05 23:06 |
DaemonFC | fewa, marriage is a bad idea | Nov 05 23:06 |
DaemonFC | a universally bad idea | Nov 05 23:06 |
fewa | DaemonFC, is procreation a bad idea? | Nov 05 23:06 |
MinceR | marriage isn't procreation | Nov 05 23:06 |
schestowitz | Promiscuity has many issues to it | Nov 05 23:06 |
DaemonFC | why gay people want in on that crap is a total mystery | Nov 05 23:06 |
fewa | MinceR, lol | Nov 05 23:06 |
schestowitz | Companionship also helps in cases of hardships | Nov 05 23:07 |
MinceR | marriage is simply an institution to increase the cost of switching mates | Nov 05 23:07 |
DaemonFC | fewa, I would say reproduction is usually a bad idea | Nov 05 23:07 |
DaemonFC | but you don't need to be married to do it | Nov 05 23:07 |
schestowitz | [23:07] <MinceR> marriage is simply an institution to increase the cost of switching mates | Nov 05 23:07 |
MinceR | forcing people into a relationship that has become harmful | Nov 05 23:07 |
schestowitz | +2 | Nov 05 23:07 |
fewa | MinceR, marriage is the thing you do when she realizes she is pregnant | Nov 05 23:07 |
DaemonFC | fewa, shotgun wedding? | Nov 05 23:07 |
DaemonFC | :D | Nov 05 23:07 |
MinceR | :) | Nov 05 23:07 |
fewa | but yes, I believe it is a personal thing | Nov 05 23:07 |
fewa | WHy there is alot of emotions about it | Nov 05 23:08 |
DaemonFC | fewa, So do I. I believe I should be able to point and laugh at anyone who decided to get married, to watch his wife pop out a few kids, put on 40 pounds, and file for divorce | Nov 05 23:08 |
DaemonFC | major pwnage | Nov 05 23:08 |
DaemonFC | but it is a personal thing B-) | Nov 05 23:09 |
DaemonFC | they need like, a birth control pill that works for 10 years | Nov 05 23:09 |
DaemonFC | and they need to make it mandatory for every woman that gets married | Nov 05 23:10 |
DaemonFC | *make | Nov 05 23:10 |
DaemonFC | that way if you are one of the 70% of couples who can't stand one another and get divorced within 10 years, you don't have to drag your kids through it | Nov 05 23:10 |
DaemonFC | and nobody ends up paying child support over a broken condom on the wedding night | Nov 05 23:11 |
fewa | its a hold over from the days of the church | Nov 05 23:11 |
DaemonFC | fewa, I've had enough grief out of the ones I couldn't marry | Nov 05 23:14 |
DaemonFC | god help me if I had been able to | Nov 05 23:15 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, What do I call same-sex marriage? | Nov 05 23:16 |
DaemonFC | A proposed stimulus package for the lawyers | Nov 05 23:16 |
DaemonFC | :P | Nov 05 23:16 |
schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBVldS1p7Bo&NR=1 | Nov 05 23:16 |
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DaemonFC | fewa, I'd vote in favor of same sex marriage, even though I disagree with the idea | Nov 05 23:19 |
DaemonFC | to piss off the church | Nov 05 23:19 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @feelinglistless: American Airlines fires UX designer for explaining why their UX isn't great http://bit.ly/3k928r #fail | Nov 05 23:21 | |
phIRCe-local | Title: The Incompetence of American Airlines & The Fate of Mr. X | Dustin Curtis .::. Size~: 10.53 KB | Nov 05 23:21 |
schestowitz | Obama Stands by 'Stupidity' Comments http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju1V7k0XnEI&feature=related | Nov 05 23:22 |
*schestowitz has kicked nocternal from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 05 23:22 | |
schestowitz | mutex nymshifting | Nov 05 23:22 |
fewa | carpe noctom | Nov 05 23:22 |
schestowitz | latin? | Nov 05 23:23 |
fewa | *carpe noctum | Nov 05 23:23 |
fewa | sieze the night | Nov 05 23:23 |
schestowitz | I got the nocturnal part | Nov 05 23:23 |
MinceR | Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum sonatur. | Nov 05 23:23 |
fewa | lol | Nov 05 23:24 |
MinceR | i thought that was "carpe noctem" | Nov 05 23:24 |
fewa | whoops | Nov 05 23:25 |
fewa | shows i dont know latin | Nov 05 23:25 |
MinceR | neither do i | Nov 05 23:25 |
MinceR | i just know a few phrases :) | Nov 05 23:25 |
DaemonFC | Carpe pisces | Nov 05 23:25 |
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MinceR | that doesn't look right | Nov 05 23:26 |
fewa | sieze the fish? | Nov 05 23:26 |
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schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feU0ix2ba34 | Nov 05 23:30 |
DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhusDP0JACU | Nov 05 23:32 |
DaemonFC | fewa, Seize the fishes | Nov 05 23:32 |
fewa | DaemonFC, fish is plural | Nov 05 23:33 |
cubezzz | aut viam inveniam aut faciam | Nov 05 23:33 |
fewa | fishies is just silly | Nov 05 23:33 |
fewa | "fishies" | Nov 05 23:33 |
MinceR | Quake has an obituary "xy sleeps with the fishes" :> | Nov 05 23:34 |
fewa | schestowitz, they is more to politics than just that sort of light fluff | Nov 05 23:36 |
fewa | cult of personality | Nov 05 23:36 |
schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x23vh6IH6WQ&NR=1 | Nov 05 23:38 |
schestowitz | I can't find anything of substance | Nov 05 23:38 |
schestowitz | fewa: I know, I know.... | Nov 05 23:39 |
schestowitz | I just drift away by "related:" | Nov 05 23:39 |
jono | schestowitz sorry, I was away - I feel 9.10 was a good release | Nov 05 23:40 |
jono | I am actually writing up a blog entry about some of these quality discussions | Nov 05 23:40 |
fewa | schestowitz, thats cause there is little of substance | Nov 05 23:41 |
fewa | these elections are designed to have as little substance as possible | Nov 05 23:41 |
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fewa | because the candidates positions differ greatly from the positions of Americans at large | Nov 05 23:41 |
fewa | the one thing that was new was that health care actually entered the debate | Nov 05 23:42 |
Ender2070 | fedora 12 is pwning ubuntu 9.10 | Nov 05 23:42 |
MinceR | does it allow installing the root fs to ext3? :> | Nov 05 23:43 |
fewa | as a presidential bid takes a huge amount of money | Nov 05 23:43 |
fewa | it happens at the exclusion of what the people want | Nov 05 23:43 |
fewa | there was an extensive poll done around the time of the 2004 budget/election | Nov 05 23:43 |
fewa | and the american people across the board completely differed from the budget | Nov 05 23:44 |
fewa | where it went up, they wanted it to go down (eg war) | Nov 05 23:44 |
MinceR | if it doesn't, then it doesn't "pwn" any release of ubuntu, ever :> | Nov 05 23:45 |
fewa | when it went down, they wanted it to go up (health care, libraries, schools, public works, FDR new society/new deal) | Nov 05 23:45 |
fewa | call for increases in renewable energy/energy independence spending | Nov 05 23:48 |
fewa | http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/brunitedstatescanadara/85.php?lb=btot&pnt=85&nid=&id= | Nov 05 23:49 |
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sebsebseb | Ender2070: will it like my partitions, the custom install, no installer error is the thing | Nov 05 23:49 |
sebsebseb | Fedora 11 gave me error and told me it was probably a bug and to report | Nov 05 23:49 |
schestowitz | jono: see http://laserjock.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/the-myth-of-the-bad-ubuntu-release/ | Nov 05 23:49 |
phIRCe-local | Title: The Myth of the Bad Ubuntu Release « LaserJock .::. Size~: 65.76 KB | Nov 05 23:49 |
schestowitz | I saw the attacks coming from the anti-Linux people | Nov 05 23:50 |
schestowitz | Those who attack me with slander | Nov 05 23:50 |
jono | schestowitz indeed - he is on the button | Nov 05 23:50 |
jono | schestowitz well, people are welcome to their viewpoints | Nov 05 23:50 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] DW/LJ: It's only right and natural. http://reddragdiva.dreamwidth.org/18617.html http://reddragdiva.livejournal.com/532369.html | Nov 05 23:50 | |
schestowitz | Then came an article from Gavin Clarke, a Microsoft booter in The Register | Nov 05 23:50 |
Ender2070 | sebsebseb - not sure, i use 11 | Nov 05 23:50 |
phIRCe-local | Title: reddragdiva | It's only right and natural. .::. Size~: 28.25 KB | Nov 05 23:50 |
phIRCe-local | Title: reddragdiva: It's only right and natural. .::. Size~: 19.24 KB | Nov 05 23:50 |
schestowitz | All the ranters link to him | Nov 05 23:50 |
schestowitz | As though he seeded for all the Ubuntu bashers | Nov 05 23:50 |
jono | schestowitz I know Gavin, he is a good guy, he was just reporting on what he saw in a forum - it made a good story, so he posted it | Nov 05 23:50 |
schestowitz | I could be wrong, but I see the links | Nov 05 23:50 |
schestowitz | Mostly to him, over a week after release time | Nov 05 23:51 |
jono | he sees a fraction of the picture, but that is the case with most people | Nov 05 23:51 |
jono | schestowitz anyway, hows life in Manc? all good? | Nov 05 23:51 |
jono | you missed out with LRL, it was a blast | Nov 05 23:51 |
jono | :) | Nov 05 23:51 |
Ender2070 | Mincer - it doesnt include mono by default, thats good enough for me | Nov 05 23:52 |
schestowitz | jono: yes, I know | Nov 05 23:52 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @richardclegg Tonight i heard a danish lesbian read a quote from chairman mao in the style of mickey mouse. I love radio four recordings. | Nov 05 23:52 | |
schestowitz | And it's rainy here in recent days. Very yucky. | Nov 05 23:52 |
jono | schestowitz ugh | Nov 05 23:53 |
jono | mind you, its rainy here too! | Nov 05 23:53 |
sebsebseb | jono: I have been told on IRC about some pretty bad things that have happended to 9.10 when doing upgrades | Nov 05 23:53 |
sebsebseb | from 9.04 | Nov 05 23:53 |
jono | sebsebseb, there were certainly some quirks with some | Nov 05 23:53 |
jono | but that happens with every upgrade path in software | Nov 05 23:53 |
jono | just the nature of the beast | Nov 05 23:53 |
Ender2070 | Mincer - also, i use KDE and kubuntu 9.10 is horrid | Nov 05 23:53 |
jono | right, I am gonna get back to writing my blog entry | Nov 05 23:53 |
sebsebseb | dataloss and config corruption or something for one guy, or whatever he said | Nov 05 23:54 |
sebsebseb | after upgrading an Ext4 9.04 install to 9.10 | Nov 05 23:54 |
MinceR | i don't see how it's horrid | Nov 05 23:54 |
MinceR | my only issue is that usb-serial doesn't want to work, i don't yet know why | Nov 05 23:54 |
sebsebseb | I can get it from the log what he said, or just read it again, and say what he said | Nov 05 23:55 |
Ender2070 | left clicking in firefox stops working for me | Nov 05 23:55 |
MinceR | (it seems it isn't a kernel issue, even though that's what i originally suspected) | Nov 05 23:55 |
sebsebseb | ,but it was rather bad | Nov 05 23:55 |
sebsebseb | what he told me | Nov 05 23:55 |
*schestowitz happy with 9.10 | Nov 05 23:56 | |
schestowitz | [Since alpha] | Nov 05 23:56 |
MinceR | my netbook has 9.10 since beta | Nov 05 23:57 |
Ender2070 | Mincer - another good point is that fedora-kde sig keeps up to date with the latest kde vs waiting 6 months for a point release | Nov 05 23:57 |
MinceR | so they throw untested releases at you? :> | Nov 05 23:57 |
Ender2070 | they are tested | Nov 05 23:57 |
Ender2070 | theres an updates-testing repo for people to check stuff out before it goes to the public | Nov 05 23:58 |
Ender2070 | I got KDE 4.3 in F11, only a couple weeks after it was released | Nov 05 23:58 |
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