| MinceR | gn | Nov 06 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| DaemonFC | Michelle Malkin makes Rush Limbaugh look sane | Nov 06 00:03 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Malkin#Unemployment_benefits | Nov 06 00:03 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Michelle Malkin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 81.38 KB | Nov 06 00:03 |
| sebsebseb | hmm I think there was one or two that said they lost data when going 9.10 after upgrading from 9.04. Well the guy I was on about before had some issues with it, but nothing that major really I guess | Nov 06 00:03 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @scientes it's not the mail. it's the meetings client. that's what the bosses buy notes/outlook for. | Nov 06 00:03 | |
| fewa | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDnr2vN_9EU | Nov 06 00:04 |
| sebsebseb | after reading his issues again | Nov 06 00:04 |
| fewa | Title: "Ponds Lotion Ad In India: Racist?" | Nov 06 00:05 |
| schestowitz | Why does google's youtube suddenly block phIRCe-local-like things? | Nov 06 00:05 |
| voltronw | schestowitz: what user agent does the bot use? | Nov 06 00:06 |
| schestowitz | Firefox | Nov 06 00:07 |
| fewa | schestowitz, they cant | Nov 06 00:07 |
| schestowitz | $useragent= "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.3) Gecko/20090824 Firefox/3.5.3"; | Nov 06 00:07 |
| fewa | just set it to XP/Firefox3.5.3 | Nov 06 00:07 |
| schestowitz | Na... | Nov 06 00:08 |
| fewa | or that | Nov 06 00:08 |
| fewa | did it really block it? | Nov 06 00:08 |
| voltronw | schestowitz: maybe they block you from making too many requests, or badly formed requests | Nov 06 00:08 |
| voltronw | schestowitz: what does the request code look like? | Nov 06 00:08 |
| schestowitz | Ask trmanco. I don't have time ot desire to learn the code at this moment | Nov 06 00:08 |
| schestowitz | I want to post some news | Nov 06 00:08 |
| voltronw | spoken like a true developer | Nov 06 00:09 |
| voltronw | schestowitz: i saw you got up to double digits in the BN self link brackets, what's your record? | Nov 06 00:11 |
| voltronw | referring to the [1, 2, 3, 4.. style links you put after something | Nov 06 00:11 |
| voltronw | think you can hit 20 one day? | Nov 06 00:11 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Nov 06 00:12 |
| schestowitz | thirthy something | Nov 06 00:12 |
| voltronw | 30! | Nov 06 00:12 |
| schestowitz | I can pick them up quickly | Nov 06 00:13 |
| schestowitz | Post IDs | Nov 06 00:13 |
| schestowitz | THat's why so many internal links. FAST! | Nov 06 00:13 |
| fewa | its good sourcing too | Nov 06 00:15 |
| voltronw | more time for google image searching and photo editing | Nov 06 00:15 |
| voltronw | fewa: linking to credible third party sources would be good. citing yourself? not so much. | Nov 06 00:15 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT sarahlee310 #California Today 9% goes to universities and 10% goes to prisons. http://bit.ly/hePtW #p2 prison lobby http://ur1.ca/f8a2 | Nov 06 00:17 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: California's higher-education debacle -- latimes.com .::. Size~: 116.97 KB | Nov 06 00:17 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: California Correctional Peace Officers Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 29.16 KB | Nov 06 00:17 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @kardain @donttrythis TELL #FCC you don't want content providers to be able to turn off parts of YOUR home theater! http://bit.ly/k6N7u | Nov 06 00:18 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Tell the FCC to Say "No" to the Cable Kill Switch | Public Knowledge .::. Size~: 22.86 KB | Nov 06 00:18 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Kerio Abandons #Windows -only Mindset, Ported to #GNU #Linux http://www.itwire.com/content/view/29094/53/ | Nov 06 00:26 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Desktop #GNU #Linux Easy, Good Stuff for All Generations http://bit.ly/tasdx | Nov 06 00:28 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Linux for grandma & grandpa - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 141.02 KB | Nov 06 00:28 |
| schestowitz | [00:15] <voltronw> fewa: linking to credible third party sources would be good. citing yourself? not so much. | Nov 06 00:29 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Dairy Council Helps #Marketing of #GNU #Linux http://ur1.ca/f8ao http://ur1.ca/f8ap | Nov 06 00:29 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Blog of helios: Linux Dairy Council Steps to the Plate... .::. Size~: 106.08 KB | Nov 06 00:29 |
| schestowitz | My posts always link outwards | Nov 06 00:29 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Tech-no-media: Desktop Linux needs salesmen! .::. Size~: 113.53 KB | Nov 06 00:29 |
| schestowitz | Almost each post contains external refs and even snippets | Nov 06 00:29 |
| voltronw | schestowitz: not as much as they link inwards | Nov 06 00:29 |
| schestowitz | They do both | Nov 06 00:30 |
| schestowitz | For older facts they link to the post with extrernal refs | Nov 06 00:30 |
| schestowitz | For new facts that provice citations | Nov 06 00:31 |
| schestowitz | Each post is anchored upon external links | Nov 06 00:31 |
| schestowitz | And recites older facts | Nov 06 00:31 |
| schestowitz | If you dispute them, there's room for comments | Nov 06 00:31 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-144-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 06 00:31 | |
| schestowitz | If not, then you challenge my writing style, not the content | Nov 06 00:31 |
| schestowitz | I spend a lot of time proofreading cause people used to nitpick typos to discredit the message | Nov 06 00:32 |
| _Hicham_ | hi schestowitz | Nov 06 00:32 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Blueberry packer that supplies Wal-Mart Kroger employing young #children in vlagrent violation of #child #labor laws http://ur1.ca/f8at #ABC | Nov 06 00:32 | |
| _Hicham_ | finally got gmail checker working on chromium | Nov 06 00:32 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Blueberry Farming Giant Found to Use Child Labor at Michigan Fields .::. Size~: 41.87 KB | Nov 06 00:32 |
| voltronw | schestowitz: from what i can tell you either make posts with comments disabled, delete people's accounts, or annotate their posts with red text | Nov 06 00:32 |
| schestowitz | I also check all my statements to ensure I can defend each sentence | Nov 06 00:32 |
| _Hicham_ | there seems to be a bug in the extension API | Nov 06 00:32 |
| voltronw | which is fine, it's your blog | Nov 06 00:33 |
| schestowitz | Deleted accounts are from abusers who break policies | Nov 06 00:33 |
| schestowitz | Like sLAPP | Nov 06 00:33 |
| voltronw | but don't say "there's room for comments" | Nov 06 00:33 |
| schestowitz | Comments were never deleted | Nov 06 00:33 |
| schestowitz | voltronw: I received unacceptable abuse | Nov 06 00:33 |
| *magentar (n=magentar@ip-109-90-128-158.unitymediagroup.de) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 06 00:33 | |
| schestowitz | voltronw: I would like to put you in my shoes | Nov 06 00:33 |
| schestowitz | To help you see justification for anti-SLAPP policy | Nov 06 00:34 |
| schestowitz | I could take the "f* you" comments, no problem | Nov 06 00:34 |
| schestowitz | We have them | Nov 06 00:34 |
| voltronw | you either have open commenting or you don't | Nov 06 00:34 |
| voltronw | you don't | Nov 06 00:34 |
| schestowitz | But when it gets nasty there's a limit | Nov 06 00:34 |
| schestowitz | voltronw: it's open | Nov 06 00:34 |
| schestowitz | I don't close comments | Nov 06 00:34 |
| schestowitz | Not ever since we had the policy | Nov 06 00:35 |
| voltronw | what other sites _annotate_ other people's posts | Nov 06 00:35 |
| schestowitz | I realise you like c# and you don't like it | Nov 06 00:35 |
| schestowitz | That's OK, I don't view it as trolling _at all_ | Nov 06 00:35 |
| cubezzz | ? | Nov 06 00:35 |
| schestowitz | Some people wanted to kick you out | Nov 06 00:35 |
| schestowitz | I defended your presence | Nov 06 00:35 |
| schestowitz | Mutex is a diferent case | Nov 06 00:35 |
| schestowitz | Saying I "suck" this and that "Dick" | Nov 06 00:36 |
| voltronw | i appreciate that. i would like c# to succeed or fail based on merit, not speculation. | Nov 06 00:36 |
| schestowitz | And looking for dirt by provoking to then call me stuff like "nazi" and racist" | Nov 06 00:36 |
| cubezzz | f you seems nasty enough to me | Nov 06 00:36 |
| schestowitz | voltronw: It increases our chances of making free code if we used languages that are freer | Nov 06 00:36 |
| fewa | voltronw, please say something substantiative | Nov 06 00:37 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: a lot of people don't remember what he did | Nov 06 00:37 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz is one of the most open minded people in the world | Nov 06 00:37 |
| _Hicham_ | and that is from experience | Nov 06 00:37 |
| schestowitz | He used like 50 names, so people lost track of the history | Nov 06 00:37 |
| _Hicham_ | i was teasing him times and times again | Nov 06 00:37 |
| schestowitz | He pretends to be a victim under nym-du-jour | Nov 06 00:37 |
| _Hicham_ | but he never felt offended | Nov 06 00:37 |
| fewa | voltronw, you have not contributed a single substantiative thing since you entered this channel | Nov 06 00:37 |
| _Hicham_ | and this channel is really open | Nov 06 00:37 |
| voltronw | fewa: i figured that a channel full of people who love to talk about languages and software would benefit from having someone who actually knows how to write code | Nov 06 00:38 |
| voltronw | and has engineering experience | Nov 06 00:38 |
| fewa | voltronw, trying to undermine the people who have contributed greatly to this channel by _claiming_ that they are incompetent is not contributory | Nov 06 00:39 |
| cubezzz | That guy mutex did have some interesting things to say, but then he'd regress into immature behaviour | Nov 06 00:39 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Assessment of #GNU #Linux by #RedMonk Analyst http://bit.ly/1Fks8G | Nov 06 00:39 | |
| _Hicham_ | http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=22461 | Nov 06 00:39 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: tecosystems » Current State of Intel Video, Ubuntu, and Composited Desktops .::. Size~: 54.95 KB | Nov 06 00:39 |
| cubezzz | and straw-man arguments... | Nov 06 00:39 |
| cubezzz | like when he started talking about source code for satellite phones | Nov 06 00:40 |
| fewa | I have dealt with people like voltronw before, they have no substance | Nov 06 00:40 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Guardian Looks at #GNU #Linux and #Vista7 http://bit.ly/4zEKqW | Nov 06 00:40 | |
| fewa | all they do is attack, and bully | Nov 06 00:40 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: I think 'mutex' was here longer than you | Nov 06 00:40 |
| schestowitz | Like 6 months | Nov 06 00:40 |
| schestowitz | The offence predates the ban | Nov 06 00:41 |
| voltronw | fewa: if you don't like it, i can see why. that's fine. but i just can't believe that a community of people who are seemingly obsessed with intellectual property law, patent law, and software development have so little experience or expertise in any of those fields | Nov 06 00:41 |
| fewa | voltronw, yes your convincing everyone that you are an expert.... | Nov 06 00:41 |
| schestowitz | fewa: he's defending c# | Nov 06 00:41 |
| fewa | *you're | Nov 06 00:41 |
| schestowitz | That's fair enough | Nov 06 00:42 |
| schestowitz | We've had Novell and Microsoft employees in this channel too | Nov 06 00:42 |
| schestowitz | Not rude | Nov 06 00:42 |
| fewa | he is a straw man | Nov 06 00:42 |
| _Hicham_ | the problem of voltronw is that he thinks that he is too expert | Nov 06 00:42 |
| voltronw | don't you wonder why people who are very knowledgeable about these topics don't share your viewpoint? | Nov 06 00:42 |
| schestowitz | It's actually a good opportunity to drive change | Nov 06 00:42 |
| schestowitz | Negotiation | Nov 06 00:42 |
| voltronw | i don't think i'm an expert, i'm just a guy who writes code | Nov 06 00:42 |
| fewa | voltronw, OK, then you should stop trying to shove words into peoples mouths, and try to claim they are incompetent | Nov 06 00:43 |
| _Hicham_ | huh, this is not what u r saying since u entered this room | Nov 06 00:43 |
| cubezzz | schestowitz, what I mean is he was just trying to make trouble after a certain point | Nov 06 00:43 |
| cubezzz | even though he was (at times) OK to talk to | Nov 06 00:43 |
| fewa | those sort of things do not reflect well on the accuser | Nov 06 00:43 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: Groklaw has those too | Nov 06 00:43 |
| _Hicham_ | yes, he wanted to make C# look good in this channel | Nov 06 00:43 |
| schestowitz | They pretend to be UNIX/Linux people and emacs/gentoo users | Nov 06 00:43 |
| _Hicham_ | all people in this channnel know more or less C# | Nov 06 00:43 |
| _Hicham_ | u not gonna show C# for us | Nov 06 00:44 |
| fewa | "I love ubuntu, but.........." | Nov 06 00:44 |
| _Hicham_ | come on | Nov 06 00:44 |
| schestowitz | This gives them credibility while they do the obvious thing... smearing anything Groklaw stands for | Nov 06 00:44 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: c# is very similar to Java in ways | Nov 06 00:44 |
| _Hicham_ | i know those people | Nov 06 00:44 |
| schestowitz | I helped a friend with it 8 years ago | Nov 06 00:44 |
| schestowitz | She was from Jordan BTW | Nov 06 00:44 |
| fewa | _Hicham_, and they are all the same | Nov 06 00:44 |
| fewa | totally predictable | Nov 06 00:44 |
| schestowitz | Her Professor had her use c# for some reason | Nov 06 00:45 |
| schestowitz | But C# is a trap | Nov 06 00:45 |
| schestowitz | It's not about technical merit | Nov 06 00:45 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is not about technical merit | Nov 06 00:45 |
| _Hicham_ | let me find a funny video about a guy who explains why he loves gentoo | Nov 06 00:45 |
| schestowitz | It's about marketing, lawyers, FUD, lawsuits by procy, etc | Nov 06 00:45 |
| fewa | and it doesn't have technical merit | Nov 06 00:45 |
| schestowitz | SO as RMS says, C# is a risk we can't afford | Nov 06 00:45 |
| voltronw | if you're an engineer, it's _all_ about technical merit | Nov 06 00:45 |
| schestowitz | Allison too | Nov 06 00:45 |
| schestowitz | And Groklaw... | Nov 06 00:45 |
| fewa | and never has had technical merit | Nov 06 00:45 |
| schestowitz | And Perens maybe.. | Nov 06 00:45 |
| fewa | voltronw, not really, the tech changes very fast | Nov 06 00:45 |
| schestowitz | Few Microsoft skeptics feel OK about mono | Nov 06 00:46 |
| fewa | much more important to be flexible, to be protected from change | Nov 06 00:46 |
| schestowitz | Mostly uneasy among the FS/GNU crowd | Nov 06 00:46 |
| fewa | or adverse actions of other actors | Nov 06 00:46 |
| voltronw | fewa: you have to solve problems, and identify and select tools with which to solve those problems with. each option has advantages and disadvantages. | Nov 06 00:46 |
| _Hicham_ | u can be a software enginner and "CHOOSE" where to work | Nov 06 00:46 |
| schestowitz | To rely on c# is like relying on US agriculture | Nov 06 00:46 |
| schestowitz | Ask Mexico | Nov 06 00:46 |
| _Hicham_ | redhat doesn't use C# for example | Nov 06 00:47 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft wants Apple and Linux to be client states | Nov 06 00:47 |
| _Hicham_ | they rather use java, or python | Nov 06 00:47 |
| fewa | free software gives you the ability to react to change | Nov 06 00:47 |
| voltronw | to cast everything as a black and white issue is, to me, a mark of inexperience | Nov 06 00:47 |
| schestowitz | "Microsoft, could we PLEASE distribute this program?" | Nov 06 00:47 |
| fewa | to fix bugs | Nov 06 00:47 |
| _Hicham_ | it is all about the company u work at | Nov 06 00:47 |
| fewa | to make the software do what you need it do no, _now_ | Nov 06 00:47 |
| _Hicham_ | u can work at open source pro company | Nov 06 00:47 |
| schestowitz | Actually, it's funny cause Miguel should know about trade barriers | Nov 06 00:47 |
| _Hicham_ | or MS pro companies | Nov 06 00:47 |
| _Hicham_ | it is all about choice | Nov 06 00:47 |
| cubezzz | I like Perens | Nov 06 00:47 |
| cubezzz | he really seems to be a nice guy | Nov 06 00:48 |
| schestowitz | He's run off somewhere | Nov 06 00:48 |
| fewa | without being tied to a propritary vendor with other priorities--tied to a few origional programmers who may leave Microsoft, or another company, may retire, may get hit by a bus | Nov 06 00:48 |
| cubezzz | trying to figure out the three HCI's | Nov 06 00:48 |
| voltronw | _Hicham_: so employers are either "open source pro" or "MS pro". again, you're casting it as a black and white issue | Nov 06 00:48 |
| cubezzz | there's UHCI, OHCI and EHCI :-/ | Nov 06 00:48 |
| fewa | voltronw, is Windows open source? | Nov 06 00:49 |
| cubezzz | duh :) | Nov 06 00:49 |
| voltronw | fewa: no. windows it not open source. | Nov 06 00:49 |
| _Hicham_ | it is not a black and white issue | Nov 06 00:49 |
| _Hicham_ | it is about choice | Nov 06 00:49 |
| cubezzz | can you compile the windows kernel? :))) | Nov 06 00:49 |
| fewa | voltronw, black and white | Nov 06 00:49 |
| voltronw | fewa: can open source software run on windows? | Nov 06 00:49 |
| cubezzz | sure | Nov 06 00:49 |
| cubezzz | it can | Nov 06 00:49 |
| _Hicham_ | if u choose open source, for most part, u will have to OSI compliant | Nov 06 00:49 |
| _Hicham_ | because most open source software is GPL | Nov 06 00:50 |
| _Hicham_ | do u understand what is the GPL ? | Nov 06 00:50 |
| fewa | voltronw, what if there are bugs in Windows, in the not open source part? | Nov 06 00:50 |
| fewa | voltronw, will those bugs ever be fixed? | Nov 06 00:50 |
| fewa | voltronw, also, what parts of Windows are open source? | Nov 06 00:50 |
| cubezzz | the old argument again :) | Nov 06 00:50 |
| _Hicham_ | open source software which LGPL, or BSD, or MIT | Nov 06 00:50 |
| _Hicham_ | not GPL | Nov 06 00:50 |
| voltronw | all software has bugs | Nov 06 00:50 |
| voltronw | some bugs will be fixed and some wont | Nov 06 00:51 |
| fewa | voltronw, ever reported a bug to kernel.org | Nov 06 00:51 |
| fewa | ??? | Nov 06 00:51 |
| ThistleWeb | the difference is that users can complain all they want to a closed source company about bugs, but they only get fixed if the company can make a ROI on the effort to do it | Nov 06 00:51 |
| _Hicham_ | huh | Nov 06 00:51 |
| fewa | ^^^^^ | Nov 06 00:51 |
| ThistleWeb | even if you can fix them, you're not allowed to | Nov 06 00:51 |
| fewa | its like the public option | Nov 06 00:51 |
| voltronw | fewa: i have not | Nov 06 00:51 |
| _Hicham_ | voltronw : have u ever contributed to open source ? | Nov 06 00:51 |
| cubezzz | you can hexedit the binaries :) | Nov 06 00:52 |
| ThistleWeb | with open source, anyone can fix them | Nov 06 00:52 |
| fewa | if you don't have that sliver of competition | Nov 06 00:52 |
| fewa | the ability to shop somewhere else | Nov 06 00:52 |
| fewa | then it just wont happen | Nov 06 00:52 |
| ThistleWeb | if your company relies on it, you can pay someone to fix it if need be | Nov 06 00:52 |
| fewa | Free and open source software gives that sliver of competition | Nov 06 00:52 |
| _Hicham_ | i usually try to fix bugs before reporting them | Nov 06 00:52 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Programmer Tries a #Mac , But Says #GNU #Linux is Better for Programming http://bit.ly/31OyEV | Nov 06 00:52 | |
| voltronw | ThistleWeb: no. not anyone. anyone who has the time and expertise to fix them. that's a much smaller pool. | Nov 06 00:52 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Linux: still better for coding .::. Size~: 25.48 KB | Nov 06 00:52 |
| _Hicham_ | so that i can send the patch | Nov 06 00:52 |
| fewa | it makes the developers of the software, stay honest | Nov 06 00:52 |
| fewa | stay helpful | Nov 06 00:52 |
| ThistleWeb | some is more than nobody | Nov 06 00:52 |
| ThistleWeb | some can also be paid to fix it | Nov 06 00:52 |
| cubezzz | yes, I tried everything | Nov 06 00:53 |
| voltronw | this is exactly the black and white thing i'm talking about. there is great proprietary software and buggy, useless Free software | Nov 06 00:53 |
| ThistleWeb | which is better than "it's our code, you can't see it, you can't modify it, if you do we'll sue you" | Nov 06 00:53 |
| fewa | voltronw, well you should some day, I've found it amazing how helpful they are and how quickly bugs get fixes | Nov 06 00:53 |
| cubezzz | GNU/Linux seems the best to me | Nov 06 00:53 |
| voltronw | and there is great Free software and buggy, useless proprietary software | Nov 06 00:53 |
| cubezzz | all the major projects are decent | Nov 06 00:53 |
| cubezzz | active, lots of people working on them | Nov 06 00:54 |
| _Hicham_ | what is this guy talking about | Nov 06 00:54 |
| cubezzz | not sure :) | Nov 06 00:54 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Small Businesses Should Use #GNU #Linux #Servers http://ur1.ca/f8bt | Nov 06 00:54 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Global Gold: Linux dedicated servers 'offer business benefits' .::. Size~: 21.69 KB | Nov 06 00:54 |
| ThistleWeb | closed source is about creating a bottleneck of control | Nov 06 00:54 |
| _Hicham_ | who said that open source software always performs better ? | Nov 06 00:54 |
| fewa | I kinda like that analogy | Nov 06 00:54 |
| fewa | Its like the public option | Nov 06 00:55 |
| _Hicham_ | open source software is easier to maintain | Nov 06 00:55 |
| fewa | you have to have that sliver of competition | Nov 06 00:55 |
| _Hicham_ | or fork, if u don't like it | Nov 06 00:55 |
| fewa | the ability to take the work somewhere else, the threat of fork | Nov 06 00:55 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Hadrons Running on #GNU #Linux, "Linux is our OS of choice" http://bit.ly/3kUs8h #lhc | Nov 06 00:55 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Large Hadron Collider team flicks switch on Xeon grid • The Register .::. Size~: 26.77 KB | Nov 06 00:55 |
| fewa | thats what keeps the origional developers honest, and focused | Nov 06 00:55 |
| voltronw | i agree that all of those things grant you freedom and power, and i hope that one day all software exists like that | Nov 06 00:55 |
| fewa | and brings the development forward | Nov 06 00:55 |
| fewa | voltronw, it exists that way today | Nov 06 00:55 |
| voltronw | i really do, and i'm doing everything i can to make that happen | Nov 06 00:55 |
| _Hicham_ | really ? | Nov 06 00:56 |
| _Hicham_ | how ? | Nov 06 00:56 |
| fewa | voltronw, just get a Ubuntu Live CD http://www.ubuntu.com/ | Nov 06 00:56 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Ubuntu Home Page | Ubuntu .::. Size~: 16.98 KB | Nov 06 00:56 |
| ThistleWeb | if your code is always public, you are always "on show" so there's a matter of taking pride in your work, which goes even more if you're volunteering your time and effort to do it | Nov 06 00:56 |
| _Hicham_ | ever put a single source code line in an open source software ? | Nov 06 00:56 |
| _Hicham_ | answer that question | Nov 06 00:56 |
| _Hicham_ | ur a coder | Nov 06 00:56 |
| _Hicham_ | so u can help | Nov 06 00:56 |
| _Hicham_ | no ? | Nov 06 00:56 |
| voltronw | _Hicham_: my last job was writing open source medical software, it was the last piece that will allow you to run a US hospital on 100% open source software. | Nov 06 00:56 |
| cubezzz | Perens gives one example of good proprietary software: Turbo Tax | Nov 06 00:56 |
| voltronw | i've put over 100k lines of open source software out there | Nov 06 00:57 |
| _Hicham_ | great, where is the source code ? | Nov 06 00:57 |
| fewa | cubezzz, that could be made free pretty easy | Nov 06 00:57 |
| voltronw | _Hicham_: https://launchpad.net/openvista-cis | Nov 06 00:57 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: OpenVista CIS in Launchpad .::. Size~: 19.31 KB | Nov 06 00:57 |
| fewa | cubezzz, I think the main barrier is that its not just a programming thing, its also a law research project | Nov 06 00:57 |
| ThistleWeb | openvista? | Nov 06 00:57 |
| fewa | every year | Nov 06 00:57 |
| ThistleWeb | that made me laugh | Nov 06 00:58 |
| cubezzz | fewa: yes | Nov 06 00:58 |
| fewa | thats why it stays propritary | Nov 06 00:58 |
| cubezzz | fewa: I did all my taxes via Linux last year | Nov 06 00:58 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux Dominates the Chart of Reliable Hosts http://ur1.ca/f8bx | Nov 06 00:58 | |
| fewa | to bring it into free and open source software the free culture movement has to catch up | Nov 06 00:58 |
| ThistleWeb | choosing an app name that's forever gonna be associated with a turkey | Nov 06 00:58 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Most Reliable Hosting Company Sites in October 2009 - Netcraft .::. Size~: 29.05 KB | Nov 06 00:58 |
| cubezzz | via the browser with QuickTax | Nov 06 00:58 |
| fewa | which I really do believe will happen | Nov 06 00:58 |
| cubezzz | so I guess OS neutral | Nov 06 00:58 |
| fewa | that universities, etc, will start doing this sort of stuff | Nov 06 00:58 |
| fewa | like turbo tax | Nov 06 00:58 |
| fewa | it is an essential public function | Nov 06 00:59 |
| cubezzz | yes, that would save money | Nov 06 00:59 |
| fewa | and I think it will happen, even if it might take 30 years | Nov 06 00:59 |
| fewa | meh 20 | Nov 06 00:59 |
| fewa | or 10 | Nov 06 00:59 |
| fewa | internet makes these things happen fast | Nov 06 01:00 |
| voltronw | _Hicham_: is that good enough? did i pass your little test? | Nov 06 01:02 |
| _Hicham_ | voltronw : I can understand why ur defending C# that much | Nov 06 01:02 |
| _Hicham_ | u should have told us that the first time | Nov 06 01:03 |
| DaemonFC | Endwar was kind of fun I guess | Nov 06 01:05 |
| DaemonFC | now what... | Nov 06 01:05 |
| cubezzz | sometimes I wonder if I've overloaded my USB controller | Nov 06 01:07 |
| voltronw | ThistleWeb: this project was called vista since 1970. | Nov 06 01:08 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah pity MS ruined the name huh? | Nov 06 01:08 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, The percentage of athiests in the European Union and the United States are similar, actually | Nov 06 01:08 |
| DaemonFC | 18% of the EU and 16% of the US | Nov 06 01:08 |
| DaemonFC | I assume it seems a lot worse here because of all the fundamentalists like the Southern Baptists | Nov 06 01:09 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Tool Created for Comparative Tests of #Linux in Server Farms http://ur1.ca/f8co | Nov 06 01:09 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Upstart Starts Up #Linux #Kernel Space Very Fast http://bit.ly/2WUDTR | Nov 06 01:09 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: [Phoronix] Building A Benchmarking Test Farm With Phoromatic .::. Size~: 22.06 KB | Nov 06 01:09 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Faster booting with Upstart - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 35.74 KB | Nov 06 01:09 |
| cubezzz | there are religious scientists | Nov 06 01:10 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, That's a sham | Nov 06 01:10 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 2009 #Linux #Kernel Summit Covered by #Heise http://ur1.ca/f8cr | Nov 06 01:10 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Kernel Log - Discussions at the 2009 Kernel Summit, FatELF in the firing line, new graphics drivers - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 44.37 KB | Nov 06 01:10 |
| DaemonFC | they try to dumb everything down so that it fits within their bible | Nov 06 01:10 |
| DaemonFC | they're not really scientists | Nov 06 01:10 |
| schestowitz | [01:08] <DaemonFC> schestowitz, The percentage of athiests in the European Union and the United States are similar, actually | Nov 06 01:11 |
| schestowitz | Not based on statistics I know of | Nov 06 01:11 |
| schestowitz | Huge disparaty | Nov 06 01:11 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] 4 Glenn Beck, SEIU = "Radical, Marxist," Except When Its Nurses Treat Him 4 Emergnc http://ur1.ca/f8cl Weiner on appendix http://ur1.ca/f8cq | Nov 06 01:11 | |
| DaemonFC | according to Wikipedia, the percentage is more or less the same | Nov 06 01:11 |
| schestowitz | Unless poles are rigged (or push-poll-inclined) | Nov 06 01:11 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: For Glenn Beck, SEIU Is 'Radical, Marxist,' Except When Its Nurses Treat Him for Emergency Abdominal Pains | Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace | AlterNet .::. Size~: 36.23 KB | Nov 06 01:11 |
| schestowitz | Like, how many people replied honestly and how was the question formulated? | Nov 06 01:11 |
| cubezzz | DaemonFC, Nicholas Copernicus? | Nov 06 01:11 |
| cubezzz | ring any bells? :) | Nov 06 01:12 |
| cubezzz | was he a "sham"? | Nov 06 01:12 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: I heard of 89% theism in the US | Nov 06 01:12 |
| schestowitz | In Europe going as low as like maybe 40% | Nov 06 01:12 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, Yeah, the "scientists" (loose term back then) had to strike a deal with the church | Nov 06 01:12 |
| schestowitz | About 50% in the UK IIRC, and that's one of the /more/ theist country | Nov 06 01:12 |
| DaemonFC | they don't say things the church doesn't like, the church doesn't burn them alive at the stake | Nov 06 01:12 |
| schestowitz | Like Bliar | Nov 06 01:12 |
| schestowitz | /country/countries/ | Nov 06 01:13 |
| cubezzz | Galileo Galilei | Nov 06 01:13 |
| cubezzz | Johannes Kepler | Nov 06 01:13 |
| _Hicham_ | old stories | Nov 06 01:13 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, yeah, but they also ask "Do you believe in a spirit or life force?" as another question apart from "Do you believe in God?" | Nov 06 01:13 |
| DaemonFC | the number of Europeans saying they don't believe in anything was 18% | Nov 06 01:14 |
| cubezzz | more recent: Michael Faraday | Nov 06 01:14 |
| cubezzz | do I believe in a life force? lol | Nov 06 01:14 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] What #Skype Really Means by "Open Source" for #GNU #Linux http://ur1.ca/f8cx http://ur1.ca/f8cy | Nov 06 01:14 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Skype preps open source Linux VoIP UI - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 62.69 KB | Nov 06 01:14 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Skype to open-source far too little | The Open Road - CNET News .::. Size~: 86.11 KB | Nov 06 01:14 |
| cubezzz | well, there's a lot of windows zombies :) | Nov 06 01:14 |
| _Hicham_ | great findings by DaemonFC | Nov 06 01:14 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, In the US, it was 8% back in 1991 | Nov 06 01:15 |
| DaemonFC | the number of Athiests here doubled over 10 years | Nov 06 01:15 |
| *magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Nov 06 01:15 | |
| _Hicham_ | natural | Nov 06 01:15 |
| cubezzz | you still need some moral element | Nov 06 01:15 |
| DaemonFC | the last thing I saw said 16% | Nov 06 01:15 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, You don't need to base morality on the lie of the church | Nov 06 01:15 |
| cubezzz | some system that keeps people civil | Nov 06 01:15 |
| _Hicham_ | the US people are the last ones to stick to religion | Nov 06 01:15 |
| DaemonFC | I don't go out and murder people and skull rape them, and it's not because I have Christian beliefs telling me it's wrong | Nov 06 01:16 |
| DaemonFC | I believe, personally that murdering people and skull raping them is wrong | Nov 06 01:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux to #Windows : Anything You Can Do I Can Do Better http://bit.ly/2DWnQP #paintthewagon | Nov 06 01:16 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: One Click Linux: Windows 7 Versus Linux. .::. Size~: 112.45 KB | Nov 06 01:16 |
| DaemonFC | why do you need the bible to tell you this? | Nov 06 01:16 |
| _Hicham_ | because not all people have a good mind | Nov 06 01:17 |
| cubezzz | I don't. I think any normal person would naturally not do those things | Nov 06 01:17 |
| cubezzz | there is morality, but there is also rationality | Nov 06 01:17 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, Like the Muslim that ran over his daughter the other day with the car, cause she wasn't Muslim? | Nov 06 01:18 |
| cubezzz | everyone has free will | Nov 06 01:18 |
| DaemonFC | those kind of ethics? | Nov 06 01:18 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New/Old Free #Games for #GNU #Linux http://ur1.ca/f8d5 http://ur1.ca/f8d6 | Nov 06 01:18 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Widelands (RTS Game): An Open Source Settlers I & II Remake ~ Web Upd8 .::. Size~: 151.17 KB | Nov 06 01:18 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Egoboo is a fun 3D Rogue-like game for Windows, Mac, and Linux .::. Size~: 73.77 KB | Nov 06 01:18 |
| DaemonFC | or the guy that shot and killed his "adulterous wife" in Marion at the courthouse a few years back | Nov 06 01:18 |
| DaemonFC | those were surely his Christian morals | Nov 06 01:18 |
| cubezzz | those people were irrational, and humans are to a certain degree, irrational | Nov 06 01:19 |
| cubezzz | unforuntately | Nov 06 01:19 |
| DaemonFC | what about the thousands of gay and lesbian teenagers murdered, beaten, and disowned by their family every year? | Nov 06 01:19 |
| cubezzz | maybe even mentally ill | Nov 06 01:19 |
| DaemonFC | That's God for you, him and his morals. | Nov 06 01:19 |
| DaemonFC | I'd know those anywhere | Nov 06 01:19 |
| cubezzz | yes, there's a lot of hatred in the world | Nov 06 01:19 |
| cubezzz | people seem to dwell on that | Nov 06 01:19 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: that's not statistics | Nov 06 01:20 |
| schestowitz | These are incidents | Nov 06 01:20 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, In my experience, nobody needs to go to religion to love their family, but a lot of people need to get away from it to love their family | Nov 06 01:20 |
| schestowitz | It's like saying, Ubuntu failed on me, thus Linux is evil | Nov 06 01:20 |
| schestowitz | There are like a billiob Muslims, IIRC | Nov 06 01:21 |
| schestowitz | You report here incidents | Nov 06 01:21 |
| schestowitz | Taken on a statistical basis you play the 'Fox card' | Nov 06 01:21 |
| cubezzz | Look at what Jeffery Dahmer did, it defies explanation | Nov 06 01:21 |
| cubezzz | I don't understand a lot of things people do | Nov 06 01:21 |
| schestowitz | I.e. show just extremists with bazookas walking down the streets | Nov 06 01:22 |
| DaemonFC | the problem with our justice system is that it only punishes people after the fact, it can't go and root out the insanity of the pulpit which is inspiring tens of thousands of crimes every year | Nov 06 01:22 |
| _Hicham_ | normal, those people who kill and rape are used by the US | Nov 06 01:22 |
| _Hicham_ | those are immoral people | Nov 06 01:22 |
| schestowitz | It's like when jono started to speak about some people whom I don't know, trying to show them as model of BN | Nov 06 01:22 |
| DaemonFC | making religion sacred is no different than allowing fascism to run rampant | Nov 06 01:22 |
| _Hicham_ | Bin Laden was a US agent | Nov 06 01:22 |
| _Hicham_ | and now they point at him to dirty the image of muslims | Nov 06 01:23 |
| DaemonFC | "No, we can't stop their hateful bigotry, they're Christian" | Nov 06 01:23 |
| schestowitz | This way, the site is described as though it's some show-bombing dangerous operation you MUST stay out of... | Nov 06 01:23 |
| DaemonFC | (Godwin's Law coming" | Nov 06 01:23 |
| _Hicham_ | we must be really stupid to believe the US news | Nov 06 01:23 |
| schestowitz | Smears by selection | Nov 06 01:23 |
| schestowitz | Showing just one side | Nov 06 01:23 |
| schestowitz | To paint it in the desired way | Nov 06 01:23 |
| schestowitz | It can go either way | Nov 06 01:23 |
| _Hicham_ | I feel story for the ignorants in the US | Nov 06 01:23 |
| _Hicham_ | *sorry | Nov 06 01:24 |
| DaemonFC | why are they exempt just because they have religion? | Nov 06 01:24 |
| cubezzz | the news is often poorly done | Nov 06 01:24 |
| DaemonFC | If I was standing on a street corner only speaking for myself, inciting mobs, I'd be arrested | Nov 06 01:24 |
| _Hicham_ | they have been brainwashed by the news | Nov 06 01:24 |
| cubezzz | finding the truth is difficult | Nov 06 01:24 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: by whom? GE? :-) | Nov 06 01:24 |
| cubezzz | schestowitz, I don't like my local news but CBC isn't too bad | Nov 06 01:24 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft does morale 'news' | Nov 06 01:25 |
| schestowitz | Lying to its employers | Nov 06 01:25 |
| schestowitz | Pretending to them that Microsoft is the white knight with huge business success | Nov 06 01:25 |
| _Hicham_ | I saw a campaign in the US two years ago about helping israel | Nov 06 01:25 |
| schestowitz | To them, the propaganda is duty to shareholders | Nov 06 01:25 |
| _Hicham_ | the guy was from Texas | Nov 06 01:25 |
| *_diablo (n=diablo@nat-portal-160-94-47-16.uofm.wireless.umn.edu) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 06 01:25 | |
| schestowitz | Shipping helicopters? | Nov 06 01:26 |
| schestowitz | At US taxpayers' expense? | Nov 06 01:26 |
| _Hicham_ | he was telling people in the chuches : " to be a true christian, u must help Israel" | Nov 06 01:26 |
| _Hicham_ | huh | Nov 06 01:26 |
| _Hicham_ | great | Nov 06 01:26 |
| _Hicham_ | great way to collect money | Nov 06 01:26 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: why didn't they also help the Kurds? | Nov 06 01:27 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : ask them | Nov 06 01:27 |
| schestowitz | The US and UK did almost nothing AFAIK when their buddy Saddam gassed these people | Nov 06 01:27 |
| _Hicham_ | I ve seen that on ABC news | Nov 06 01:27 |
| ThistleWeb | profits overrule ethics | Nov 06 01:27 |
| _Hicham_ | yes, Kurds do not have oil | Nov 06 01:27 |
| _Hicham_ | Darfur do not have oil | Nov 06 01:27 |
| ThistleWeb | while peeps are making lots of money, stuff like atrocities can be overlooked | Nov 06 01:28 |
| _Hicham_ | everything is about money | Nov 06 01:28 |
| ThistleWeb | money is not a selling point to the public, so they have to spin some moral excuse to explain a decision motivated by money | Nov 06 01:29 |
| Ender2070 | what about darfive | Nov 06 01:29 |
| *_diablo (n=diablo@nat-portal-160-94-47-16.uofm.wireless.umn.edu) has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving") | Nov 06 01:30 | |
| fewa | schestowitz, helicopters? | Nov 06 01:30 |
| _Hicham_ | like, they do have mass destruction weapons | Nov 06 01:30 |
| fewa | __you have no idea__ | Nov 06 01:30 |
| _Hicham_ | they are a threat | Nov 06 01:30 |
| _Hicham_ | let kill them | Nov 06 01:30 |
| fewa | there is $300 BILLION a year, that they CANT EVEN ACCOUNT FOR | Nov 06 01:30 |
| _Hicham_ | and the whole US blesses the decision | Nov 06 01:30 |
| fewa | they wont even say where it went | Nov 06 01:30 |
| fewa | it just goes POOF, from the federal budget | Nov 06 01:31 |
| fewa | and the US taxpayer | Nov 06 01:31 |
| Ender2070 | Saskatchewan has weapons of mass destruction and oil, they're next | Nov 06 01:31 |
| _Hicham_ | and they say that there transparency in the US | Nov 06 01:31 |
| _Hicham_ | the US is a jungle | Nov 06 01:31 |
| cubezzz | what? We don't have nukes :) | Nov 06 01:31 |
| cubezzz | we don't even have a delivery system | Nov 06 01:31 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Nice #Theme Tips for #GNOME Desktop Environments http://bit.ly/Fw6OO | Nov 06 01:32 | |
| _Hicham_ | cubezzz : where r u from ? | Nov 06 01:32 |
| Ender2070 | cubezzz - ever see 'talking to americans' ? | Nov 06 01:32 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: OMG! UBUNTU!: Some More Gnome Panel Clock Applet Styles .::. Size~: 92.94 KB | Nov 06 01:32 |
| fewa | _Hicham_, it matters what level | Nov 06 01:32 |
| cubezzz | Canada | Nov 06 01:32 |
| fewa | state governments are much better than federal | Nov 06 01:32 |
| Ender2070 | we may soon be switching to 24 hour time | Nov 06 01:33 |
| Ender2070 | im excited | Nov 06 01:33 |
| _Hicham_ | Canadian people are known for being less violent than their US neighbors | Nov 06 01:33 |
| fewa | Ender2070, its called Zulu | Nov 06 01:33 |
| cubezzz | we got rid of American nukes in 1984 | Nov 06 01:33 |
| Ender2070 | fewa - nonono, currently we have 20 hour days | Nov 06 01:33 |
| Ender2070 | fewa - a canadian hour is worth more minutes | Nov 06 01:33 |
| fewa | _Hicham_, except when fighting back the Americans in the war of 1812 :P | Nov 06 01:33 |
| cubezzz | we have CANDU :) | Nov 06 01:34 |
| fewa | CANADU | Nov 06 01:34 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, According to British Intelligence (MI-5), you most certainly do have WMDs | Nov 06 01:34 |
| fewa | :P | Nov 06 01:34 |
| DaemonFC | and you are buying yellow cake uranium | Nov 06 01:34 |
| DaemonFC | the Canadian menace MUST be dealt with | Nov 06 01:34 |
| fewa | British Intelligence | Nov 06 01:34 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Nov 06 01:34 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #KDevelop Beta 6 Released, Other #KDE News http://ur1.ca/f8dv http://ur1.ca/f702 http://ur1.ca/f8dw http://ur1.ca/f8dx | Nov 06 01:34 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: KDevelop Beta 6 and PHP Beta 1 Released | KDE.news .::. Size~: 30.41 KB | Nov 06 01:34 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Switching from Compiz to the KDE Native Composite Engine | Ben Kevan's Blog .::. Size~: 53.7 KB | Nov 06 01:34 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Amarok Joins Software Freedom Conservancy and Starts Rokvember Fund Raiser | KDE.news .::. Size~: 11.02 KB | Nov 06 01:34 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Finding Geotagged Photos in digiKam « Scribbles and Snaps .::. Size~: 23.27 KB | Nov 06 01:34 |
| fewa | "British Intelligence " == oxymoron :P | Nov 06 01:34 |
| DaemonFC | MI-5 also tells us of a complex Canadian underground cave bunker system | Nov 06 01:34 |
| cubezzz | believe me, we don't spent much on the military | Nov 06 01:34 |
| DaemonFC | we must take those out first | Nov 06 01:34 |
| Ender2070 | Canada also has propagandist celebrities walking amongst you | Nov 06 01:35 |
| cubezzz | DaemonFC, you're crazy | Nov 06 01:35 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, No, don't blame me, it's MI-5 | Nov 06 01:35 |
| DaemonFC | they never led us astray before... | Nov 06 01:35 |
| cubezzz | ok, so where are these nukes? | Nov 06 01:36 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, Now....This is going to hurt you a lot worse than it hurts us. | Nov 06 01:36 |
| Ender2070 | I don't think you can argue with James Bond | Nov 06 01:36 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Nov 06 01:36 |
| DaemonFC | Ender2070, Bond is MI-6 | Nov 06 01:36 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Nov 06 01:36 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Many #GNU #Linux #Distributions the Very Strength That Spreads It http://ur1.ca/f8e1 http://ur1.ca/f8e2 | Nov 06 01:36 | |
| cubezzz | DaemonFC, did you hear the Cold War ended? | Nov 06 01:36 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 06 01:36 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: The Psychology Of A Distrohopper | Jim Lynch: Tech Analyst and Community Manager .::. Size~: 86.94 KB | Nov 06 01:36 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, Nope. It's still cold in Canada right? | Nov 06 01:37 |
| Ender2070 | Actually we probably have american nukes too, due to the missle shield | Nov 06 01:37 |
| DaemonFC | we need a name for this one though | Nov 06 01:37 |
| cubezzz | well Wikipedia says we don't | Nov 06 01:37 |
| Ender2070 | We just need to activate the Hacker Hellstorm | Nov 06 01:37 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Review of #PartedMagic 4.5 http://ur1.ca/f8e3 and Screenshots of #Mandriva 2010 http://ur1.ca/f8e4 | Nov 06 01:37 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Raiden's Realm: Review: Parted Magic 4.5 .::. Size~: 32.13 KB | Nov 06 01:37 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Mandriva 2010 Screen Shots - Screen Shots of Mandriva 2010 .::. Size~: 22.51 KB | Nov 06 01:37 |
| fewa | cubezzz, cold war never ended | Nov 06 01:37 |
| DaemonFC | Operation Canadian Privatized Healthcare? | Nov 06 01:37 |
| DaemonFC | hmmmm | Nov 06 01:37 |
| DaemonFC | Operation Infinite Enron? | Nov 06 01:37 |
| fewa | cubezzz, just look at the "missle defense shields" in Poland, Czech, etc | Nov 06 01:38 |
| cubezzz | Missiles yes, but WMDs? | Nov 06 01:38 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Sabayon 5.1 is Coming Soon http://wgo.wolf911.us/?p=258 #gnu #linux #gentoo | Nov 06 01:38 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: 5.1 Rolling Along .::. Size~: 46.14 KB | Nov 06 01:38 |
| cubezzz | WMDs are too risky | Nov 06 01:38 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, We have to watch out for those moose launchers | Nov 06 01:38 |
| DaemonFC | you could take out an Apache with one of those suckers | Nov 06 01:39 |
| Ender2070 | Canada owns all the nuclear material USA needs to make nukes, im sure we have some too | Nov 06 01:39 |
| schestowitz | [01:30] <fewa> schestowitz, helicopters? | Nov 06 01:39 |
| schestowitz | Planes too | Nov 06 01:39 |
| schestowitz | Israel does not make those | Nov 06 01:39 |
| fewa | schestowitz, that wasn't my point | Nov 06 01:39 |
| cubezzz | yeah Apache is great, I use it all the time :) | Nov 06 01:39 |
| cubezzz | anyways.... :-P | Nov 06 01:39 |
| schestowitz | It made some in the past, Kfir for example | Nov 06 01:39 |
| fewa | oh for Israel? | Nov 06 01:39 |
| fewa | well thats totally differn't | Nov 06 01:39 |
| schestowitz | But what's curious is who pays for this | Nov 06 01:39 |
| fewa | Israel uses those to kill palistinians | Nov 06 01:39 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, I hear the Canadian government is hiding the health problems of people in Alberta | Nov 06 01:40 |
| schestowitz | It's quite striking cause you see who benefits from this military base | Nov 06 01:40 |
| DaemonFC | the problems caused by the oil and gas industry there | Nov 06 01:40 |
| cubezzz | yes, I have heard about that | Nov 06 01:40 |
| cubezzz | I know it is true | Nov 06 01:40 |
| DaemonFC | the doctors all work for the state, and so they keep telling people that nothing is wrong with them | Nov 06 01:40 |
| DaemonFC | even as the neurological disorders get worse | Nov 06 01:40 |
| DaemonFC | they end up coming to the United States for medical attention | Nov 06 01:41 |
| schestowitz | [01:34] <fewa> British Intelligence | Nov 06 01:41 |
| schestowitz | Misnomer? | Nov 06 01:41 |
| DaemonFC | well, the ones that can pay for it | Nov 06 01:41 |
| fewa | the real misnomer is "military intelligence" | Nov 06 01:41 |
| Ender2070 | Why does the UN ban weather control weapons? Cause Canada has weather manipulation devices | Nov 06 01:42 |
| cubezzz | we do? | Nov 06 01:42 |
| schestowitz | Military intelligence exists. They hire top people. High budget | Nov 06 01:43 |
| schestowitz | You must be thinking of military cannon fodder | Nov 06 01:43 |
| schestowitz | There are those who manage wars of occuption | Nov 06 01:43 |
| Ender2070 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhTZ_tgMUdo | Nov 06 01:44 |
| schestowitz | The US rarely defends itself | Nov 06 01:44 |
| schestowitz | Now since British rule/occupation | Nov 06 01:44 |
| schestowitz | But the rest operate the machines | Nov 06 01:44 |
| schestowitz | Some build bombs to feed the family (not with the bombs) | Nov 06 01:44 |
| _Hicham_ | they hire people like DaemonFC | Nov 06 01:44 |
| _Hicham_ | who is a true patriotist | Nov 06 01:44 |
| DaemonFC | bombin brown people, _Hicham_ | Nov 06 01:45 |
| DaemonFC | bombing brown people | Nov 06 01:45 |
| schestowitz | The bombs feed /other/ families... with kids screaming and people with their bodyparts flying all over the place | Nov 06 01:45 |
| cubezzz | well at least Solyent Green didn't happen | Nov 06 01:45 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: that's from Carlin's skit | Nov 06 01:45 |
| schestowitz | "We love war" | Nov 06 01:45 |
| cubezzz | My impression is that the world is improving, believe it or not | Nov 06 01:45 |
| DaemonFC | mmhm | Nov 06 01:45 |
| schestowitz | "You know why? Cause we're good at it!" | Nov 06 01:45 |
| _Hicham_ | wow, see ? | Nov 06 01:46 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC is a terrorist | Nov 06 01:46 |
| _Hicham_ | :) | Nov 06 01:46 |
| schestowitz | .... we love oil? You know why? cause we depend on it!!... | Nov 06 01:46 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: can't be | Nov 06 01:47 |
| schestowitz | TERROR~1 usually ride camels and live in high-mountain caves | Nov 06 01:47 |
| schestowitz | Or so sez the legend :p | Nov 06 01:48 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] #Awesome http://i.imgur.com/m5UqD.jpg | Nov 06 01:49 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 06 01:49 |
| voltronw | schestowitz: what do you want to be when you grow up? what profession do you envision for yourself? | Nov 06 01:50 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : I agree | Nov 06 01:51 |
| _Hicham_ | I am the terrorist, even if it is DaemonFC who kills people | Nov 06 01:52 |
| schestowitz | voltronw: I don't talk about personal life because trolls distort and use it against messenger | Nov 06 01:52 |
| _Hicham_ | hahahahahahha | Nov 06 01:52 |
| schestowitz | Stick to the topic | Nov 06 01:52 |
| _Hicham_ | when he grow up | Nov 06 01:52 |
| _Hicham_ | hahahahaha | Nov 06 01:52 |
| voltronw | schestowitz: what's the topic? camels? | Nov 06 01:53 |
| schestowitz | !google youtube when I grow up pussycat dolls | Nov 06 01:53 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : he is thinking that u r a kid | Nov 06 01:53 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - YouTube - The Pussycat Dolls - When I Grow Up | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DQpz0VcDuR4g | Nov 06 01:53 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - YouTomb - YouTube Video - The Pussycat Dolls - When I Grow Up | http://youtomb.mit.edu/youtube/Qpz0VcDuR4g | Nov 06 01:53 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - youtube-when i grow up-pussycat dolls | Sugarscape | | http://www.sugarscape.com/main-topics/homepage/218188/youtube-when-i-grow-pussycat-dolls | Nov 06 01:53 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - YouTube - Pussycat Dolls - When I Grow Up (Remix) - Mixx | http://www.mixx.com/videos/3018846/youtube_pussycat_dolls_when_i_grow_up_remix | Nov 06 01:53 |
| voltronw | you guys are all over the place | Nov 06 01:53 |
| _Hicham_ | hahahahahahahahahahahaha | Nov 06 01:53 |
| schestowitz | I wanna be a pussycat doll, I guess :-p | Nov 06 01:53 |
| _Hicham_ | this voltronw is really weird | Nov 06 01:53 |
| _Hicham_ | nice answer | Nov 06 01:53 |
| ThistleWeb | tell us what you want, what you really really want | Nov 06 01:54 |
| _Hicham_ | C# has ruined his mind | Nov 06 01:54 |
| _Hicham_ | hahahahahahahahahahahaha | Nov 06 01:54 |
| voltronw | i'm just curious, you're free to not answer. i just wonder what kind of aspiration is driving you. | Nov 06 01:54 |
| ThistleWeb | voltronw: perhaps wording your question in a less condecending way would have gotten a different response | Nov 06 01:55 |
| ThistleWeb | you phrased it like you were talking to a 5 yr old | Nov 06 01:55 |
| voltronw | oh i didn't mean to be condescending. i'm sorry. you are a student, correct? | Nov 06 01:56 |
| ThistleWeb | I guess you knew that and hoped it wouldn't be noticed | Nov 06 01:56 |
| _Hicham_ | he is a "PhD" student | Nov 06 01:57 |
| _Hicham_ | there is a difference | Nov 06 01:57 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Fedora 12 #Benchmark Shows Its Beta to be Slower Than #Ubuntu http://bit.ly/1b2SD2 | Nov 06 01:57 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: [Phoronix] Fedora 12 vs. Ubuntu 9.10 Benchmarks .::. Size~: 18.88 KB | Nov 06 01:57 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : last time u told me that people don't know about PhD system | Nov 06 01:57 |
| _Hicham_ | shestowitz: now it turns out that some don't even know what is PhD | Nov 06 01:58 |
| voltronw | right, i'm wondering what, if any, career aspirations you had after you complete your education | Nov 06 01:58 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu #Interviews About Platform and #Security http://ur1.ca/f8f1 http://ur1.ca/f8f2 | Nov 06 01:58 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Meet the Platform Team Managers: Matt Zimmerman / Amber Graner: You in Ubuntu / Blogs / Online / Home - Ubuntu User .::. Size~: 41.67 KB | Nov 06 01:58 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Q&A: Ubuntu 9.10 security .::. Size~: 22.39 KB | Nov 06 01:58 |
| voltronw | but if you feel that's too personal, that's fine | Nov 06 01:58 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : Fedora Beta will be slower for sure compared to ubuntu | Nov 06 01:58 |
| _Hicham_ | I know that | Nov 06 01:59 |
| Ender2070 | fedora is still a good distro | Nov 06 01:59 |
| _Hicham_ | however, I do find that Phoronix test suite is subjective | Nov 06 01:59 |
| _Hicham_ | Ender2070 : I am using Fedora 12 | Nov 06 02:00 |
| Ender2070 | im about to install rawhide on my notebook | Nov 06 02:00 |
| _Hicham_ | u can't test Fedora and Ubuntu | Nov 06 02:00 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu Variant/Derivative #Jolicloud GetsGood Marks http://bit.ly/4gwXNG | Nov 06 02:00 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Thoughts on Technology: Jolicloud - Distro Review .::. Size~: 72.7 KB | Nov 06 02:00 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #IBM VP on #Ubuntu 9.10: It Works http://bit.ly/2Pi6s7 | Nov 06 02:01 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Working with Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala: initial impressions | Blog | Bob Sutor .::. Size~: 54.85 KB | Nov 06 02:01 |
| _Hicham_ | test/compare | Nov 06 02:02 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux Gets into Education, Sharing http://ur1.ca/f8fc http://ur1.ca/f7pa | Nov 06 02:03 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: UOW: The Ubuntu Learning Project « DoctorMO's Blog .::. Size~: 17.18 KB | Nov 06 02:03 |
| schestowitz | Ender2070: Michael Larabel used to use just Fedora | Nov 06 02:05 |
| schestowitz | I think he would want it to win | Nov 06 02:05 |
| schestowitz | It's always amusing how people label their detractor | Nov 06 02:06 |
| schestowitz | "She's just a paralegal" | Nov 06 02:06 |
| schestowitz | "RMS never had a 'real' job" | Nov 06 02:06 |
| schestowitz | "Noam is not connected to industry..." | Nov 06 02:06 |
| schestowitz | "Barrack smokes pot OMFG!" | Nov 06 02:06 |
| schestowitz | They'll always find some way to distort | Nov 06 02:07 |
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| schestowitz | OMG, this man was like a stupid, immature 5-y-o like 40 years ago | Nov 06 02:07 |
| voltronw | good to see we're back on topic | Nov 06 02:07 |
| schestowitz | When will he grow up | Nov 06 02:07 |
| *schestowitz has kicked nocternal from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 06 02:07 | |
| schestowitz | Mutex comes to take his night's piss | Nov 06 02:08 |
| schestowitz | His toilet must not be working | Nov 06 02:08 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @AlanGrayson Another Congressman with Guts, Rep. @EricMassa on the war in #Afghanistan http://ur1.ca/f8ft | Nov 06 02:10 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Many Different #Linux #Phones Implementations a God Thing, Argues Google http://ur1.ca/f8g1 http://ur1.ca/f8g2 | Nov 06 02:14 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Google: Android fragmentation not 'bad thing' • The Register .::. Size~: 29.71 KB | Nov 06 02:14 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Giz Explains: Android, and How It Will Take Over the World - android 2.0 - Gizmodo .::. Size~: 78.69 KB | Nov 06 02:14 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Nokia #N900 Release May be About One Week Away http://ur1.ca/f8gb Runs #Linux http://ur1.ca/f8gc | Nov 06 02:15 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Top 10 Mobile Phones » News » Nokia N900 mobile phone dropping Nov 16th? .::. Size~: 26.27 KB | Nov 06 02:15 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Nokia's Plans for Symbian vs. Maemo - BusinessWeek .::. Size~: 55.73 KB | Nov 06 02:15 |
| Ender2070 | schestowitz - who is Michael Larabel | Nov 06 02:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux #Phones Compared: #Maemo , #Android http://bit.ly/7XawH | Nov 06 02:17 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: HTC HD2 vs Nokia N900 keyboard comparison - SlashGear .::. Size~: 57.03 KB | Nov 06 02:17 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Moblin 2.1 is Released by Bribes-Loving Company, Intel http://ur1.ca/f8gg http://ur1.ca/f8gh Go for ARM | Nov 06 02:19 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: [Phoronix] Moblin 2.1 Officially Released With Improvements .::. Size~: 15.93 KB | Nov 06 02:19 |
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| schestowitz | Ender2070: the man behind 100% of Phoronix | Nov 06 02:20 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux Does Well on Sub-notebooks, Preinstalled at #HP http://ur1.ca/f779 http://ur1.ca/f8gj http://ur1.ca/f8gk | Nov 06 02:20 | |
| schestowitz | David Lin used to help out years ago; no more | Nov 06 02:20 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 06 02:21 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Linux owns 32 percent of netbook market, says study - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 67.03 KB | Nov 06 02:21 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: HP Mini 5101 - ZDNet.co.uk .::. Size~: 83.13 KB | Nov 06 02:21 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Ubuntu 9.10 (karmic Koala) on Netbooks - Part 2 (Netbook Remix) - ZDNet.co.uk .::. Size~: 98.39 KB | Nov 06 02:21 |
| Ender2070 | oh ok | Nov 06 02:22 |
| cubezzz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device) | Nov 06 02:22 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Davy Crockett (nuclear device) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 30.44 KB | Nov 06 02:22 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @tamenem @sickforprofit Was Hired to Stand in the Way of Health Care Reform http://tinyurl.com/yby2w9s #hc #hc09 | Nov 06 02:30 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: I Was Hired to Stand in the Way of Health Care Reform | Politics | AlterNet .::. Size~: 24.61 KB | Nov 06 02:30 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Pelosi: Harmonizing Of Legislation Means NO Kucinich Single Payer Amendment! Why not hold vote on Kucinich amendment? http://ur1.ca/f8hn | Nov 06 02:40 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Pelosi: Harmonizing Of Legislation Means NO Kucinich #SinglePayer Amendment! Why not hold vote on Kucinich amendment? http://ur1.ca/f8hn | Nov 06 02:41 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware Shows Success of #Capitalism , Makes Progress http://ur1.ca/f8hy http://ur1.ca/f8hz | Nov 06 02:45 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Open Source Politics .::. Size~: 16.77 KB | Nov 06 02:45 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: eWEEK at 25: Open Source Has Proven a Remarkably Fertile Platform .::. Size~: 108.47 KB | Nov 06 02:45 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Vienna, #Italy , #Paris Show #FreeSoftware Success http://ur1.ca/f8i4 http://ur1.ca/f8i5 http://ur1.ca/f8i6 | Nov 06 02:48 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: New Open Source Stack saves money .:. Juraforum.de - Portal für Recht mit Anwaltssuche! .::. Size~: 78.95 KB | Nov 06 02:48 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: eGov monitor - A Policy Dialogue Platform | Promoting Better Governance .::. Size~: 9.24 KB | Nov 06 02:48 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: eGov monitor - A Policy Dialogue Platform | Promoting Better Governance .::. Size~: 8.37 KB | Nov 06 02:48 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2yY1PeGmG8 | Nov 06 02:50 |
| fewa | schestowitz, RE: Grayson, Birthers on street http://www.democracynow.org/2004/6/22/bill_clinton_loses_his_cool_in | Nov 06 02:50 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Bill Clinton Loses His Cool in Democracy Now! Interview on Everything But Monica: Leonard Peltier, Racial Profiling, the Iraqi Sanctions, Ralph Nader, the Death Penalty and the Israeli-Palestinian Con .::. Size~: 67.43 KB | Nov 06 02:50 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Sun Actively Promotes #FreeSoftware , #Sakai Runs Competition http://ur1.ca/f8ig http://ur1.ca/f8ih | Nov 06 02:50 | |
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| _Hicham_ | ender2070 : installed F12 on ur netbook ? | Nov 06 02:51 |
| ender2070 | yes | Nov 06 02:51 |
| ender2070 | also installed knetworkmanager | Nov 06 02:52 |
| _Hicham_ | how does it perform ? | Nov 06 02:52 |
| schestowitz | https://act.credoaction.com/campaign/drop_pesticide_pusher/index.html?r=4988 | Nov 06 02:54 |
| ender2070 | seems to perform ok | Nov 06 02:55 |
| _Hicham_ | what graphics card do u have ? | Nov 06 02:56 |
| ender2070 | nvidia geforce 8400m | Nov 06 02:57 |
| _Hicham_ | is nouveau driver working good with it ? | Nov 06 02:57 |
| ender2070 | possibly | Nov 06 02:58 |
| ender2070 | i dont seem to have any issues | Nov 06 02:58 |
| _Hicham_ | do u have KMS ? | Nov 06 02:58 |
| ender2070 | its been like 30 minutes | Nov 06 02:58 |
| cubezzz | I had one box with a Radeon 9250 on Fedora 11 and it runs very slow | Nov 06 02:58 |
| ender2070 | kms? | Nov 06 02:59 |
| _Hicham_ | cubezzz : must be a kms issue | Nov 06 02:59 |
| _Hicham_ | ender2070 : Kernel ModeSetting | Nov 06 02:59 |
| cubezzz | oh I see | Nov 06 02:59 |
| cubezzz | what can I do to fix it? | Nov 06 02:59 |
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| cubezzz | I think it's even using agp=off :-/ | Nov 06 03:00 |
| _Hicham_ | cubezzz : try booting with nomodeset | Nov 06 03:00 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mozilla to Apply Major Changes to #Firefox http://ur1.ca/f8is http://ur1.ca/f8it http://ur1.ca/f8iu | Nov 06 03:00 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Mozilla plans major Firefox interface overhaul - LinuxWorld .::. Size~: 37.35 KB | Nov 06 03:00 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Mozilla plots Firefox interface overhaul • The Register .::. Size~: 29.19 KB | Nov 06 03:00 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Mozilla: Firefox 3.6 won't be late | Webware - CNET .::. Size~: 68.68 KB | Nov 06 03:00 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ApacheCon on #ASF Turns 10 http://ur1.ca/f8j5 http://ur1.ca/f8j6 http://ur1.ca/f8j7 | Nov 06 03:03 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Live from ApacheCon: Subversion Joins ASF .::. Size~: 37.4 KB | Nov 06 03:03 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Apache at 10: You Can't Buy Us - InternetNews.com .::. Size~: 146.99 KB | Nov 06 03:03 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Look Back at #Gopher http://bit.ly/2rgSlg | Nov 06 03:04 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: The Web may have won, but Gopher tunnels on - Ars Technica .::. Size~: 49.36 KB | Nov 06 03:04 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ODF Makes Important New Strides http://ur1.ca/f8jd http://ur1.ca/f8je | Nov 06 03:05 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Zend and #Oracle Work Together, Despite Oracle-Java http://ur1.ca/f8jm http://ur1.ca/f8jn | Nov 06 03:09 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Dr. Dobb's | Zend, Oracle Hook Up for Enterprise-Class Linux and PHP | November 4, 2009 .::. Size~: 87.6 KB | Nov 06 03:09 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Zend and Oracle Join Forces to Deliver Enterprise-Class Linux and PHP Solution .::. Size~: 42.38 KB | Nov 06 03:09 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 2 New Cartoons Make Fun of #Vista7 Failure in the Market http://ur1.ca/f8jw http://ur1.ca/f8jx | Nov 06 03:13 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Penny Arcade! - In The Seventh House .::. Size~: 7.78 KB | Nov 06 03:13 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: The Bizarre Cathedral - 57 .::. Size~: 35.76 KB | Nov 06 03:13 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Vista 7 Sales Very, Very Poor (Microsoft Keeps Numbers to Self) http://ur1.ca/f8jz | Nov 06 03:14 | |
| cubezzz | the same frame repeated 3 times :) | Nov 06 03:16 |
| _Hicham_ | cubezzz : what are u talking about ? | Nov 06 03:17 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Goes to #Brazil for a Coup Against #GNU #Linux in All Schools http://ur1.ca/f8k7 | Nov 06 03:17 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft Takes Teachers To Brazil - News - eWeekEurope.co.uk .::. Size~: 22.67 KB | Nov 06 03:17 |
| cubezzz | the cartoons | Nov 06 03:18 |
| _Hicham_ | I don't understand | Nov 06 03:19 |
| cubezzz | radeon 9250 not recommened for Linux | Nov 06 03:19 |
| _Hicham_ | why ? | Nov 06 03:19 |
| cubezzz | >>[schestowitz] 2 New Cartoons Make Fun of #Vista7 Failure in the Market http://ur1.ca/f8jw http://ur1.ca/f8jx | Nov 06 03:19 |
| _Hicham_ | did u disable KMS ? | Nov 06 03:19 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Penny Arcade! - In The Seventh House .::. Size~: 7.78 KB | Nov 06 03:19 |
| cubezzz | from there | Nov 06 03:19 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: The Bizarre Cathedral - 57 .::. Size~: 35.76 KB | Nov 06 03:19 |
| cubezzz | _Hicham_, I'm not positive | Nov 06 03:19 |
| cubezzz | I tried Option "AccelMethod "XAA" | Nov 06 03:20 |
| cubezzz | how do I disable KMS? | Nov 06 03:20 |
| _Hicham_ | did u add nomodeset to kernel parameters ? | Nov 06 03:20 |
| cubezzz | trying that now | Nov 06 03:21 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Fish & Richardson & Patent Pests Extort Real Companies with Products http://ur1.ca/f8kj | Nov 06 03:21 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: The Prior Art: Patent Litigation Weekly: How to win $25 million in a patent suit—and end up with a whole lot less .::. Size~: 55.61 KB | Nov 06 03:21 |
| cubezzz | hmmm, startup is different | Nov 06 03:22 |
| cubezzz | yes, glxgears is much better framerate now | Nov 06 03:23 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Telegraph Against #Copyrights Monopolies/Zeal http://ur1.ca/f8kl | Nov 06 03:23 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Stop punishing fans and start selling to them - Telegraph .::. Size~: 87.19 KB | Nov 06 03:23 |
| cubezzz | thanks :) | Nov 06 03:23 |
| _Hicham_ | you're welcome | Nov 06 03:23 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Internet #Freedom at Enormous Risk Again http://ur1.ca/f8kq http://ur1.ca/f8ks http://ur1.ca/f7rr | Nov 06 03:25 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Technology & Marketing Law Blog: Law Professor Sues Over 'Above the Law' Blog Posts--Jones v. Minkin .::. Size~: 25.59 KB | Nov 06 03:25 |
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| _Hicham_ | deltarpm just rocks | Nov 06 03:36 |
| _Hicham_ | i m loving it | Nov 06 03:36 |
| ender2070 | i was using that in f11 | Nov 06 03:37 |
| ender2070 | yum-presto | Nov 06 03:37 |
| _Hicham_ | but there wasn't a lot of drpms | Nov 06 03:38 |
| _Hicham_ | in F12 there are drpms for every update ! | Nov 06 03:38 |
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| schestowitz | gn | Nov 06 03:49 |
| amarsh04__ | night schestowitz | Nov 06 03:50 |
| *amarsh04__ is now known as amarsh04 | Nov 06 03:50 | |
| *amarsh04 cheks that nickserv worked | Nov 06 03:52 | |
| amarsh04 | checks even | Nov 06 03:52 |
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| DaemonFC | http://www.crn.com/software/221600566;jsessionid=2HQ3ON13NGCANQE1GHOSKHWATMY32JVN | Nov 06 04:27 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft To Issue Six Security Updates Next Week - Software - IT Channel News by CRN .::. Size~: 79.8 KB | Nov 06 04:28 |
| DaemonFC | no Windows 7 vulnerabilities to patch this month | Nov 06 04:29 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] I earned the Bootcamp sticker on #GetGlue! http://bit.ly/3cxA70 | Nov 06 05:31 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] I earned the Lone Wolf sticker on #GetGlue! http://bit.ly/1bm6Bk | Nov 06 06:54 | |
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| ender2070 | you know who has hands? | Nov 06 08:27 |
| ender2070 | the devil | Nov 06 08:27 |
| tessier | Someone in here was telling me about a gnu logic system which integrated with nagios... | Nov 06 08:30 |
| tessier | Just last week...what was that thing called? | Nov 06 08:30 |
| cubezzz | don't know if this is old: | Nov 06 09:16 |
| cubezzz | http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2003/08/17/wwwmicrosoftcom_runs_linux_up_to_a_point_.html | Nov 06 09:16 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: www.microsoft.com runs Linux? Up to a point ... - Netcraft .::. Size~: 17.94 KB | Nov 06 09:16 |
| cubezzz | yup, sorry, it's ancient :) | Nov 06 09:17 |
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| tessier | oiaohm: Just in the last week I read a tutorial about integrating nagios with some sort of logic language but I cannot recall what the language was. Was I talking to you about it? | Nov 06 09:40 |
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| oiaohm | Yes and its been a long week and I forget the language as well tessier | Nov 06 09:44 |
| *schestowitz has kicked frogesty from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 06 09:45 | |
| schestowitz | frogesty=mutex ban-evading | Nov 06 09:45 |
| tessier | oiaohm: I happened across http://www.learnprolognow.org/ today and it seems pretty similar. I wonder if whoever invented the language we looked at was familiar with prolog. | Nov 06 09:45 |
| tessier | I hate it when people invent new languages unnecessarily. | Nov 06 09:45 |
| tessier | I already have far too much to learn. | Nov 06 09:45 |
| oiaohm | my brain as moved on to working out reprap system | Nov 06 09:45 |
| tessier | As often happens, I thought prolog was a dead and useless language. But now I can see it as being useful for certain system monitoring and maintenance tasks. | Nov 06 09:46 |
| oiaohm | every computer language was built for a task. | Nov 06 09:49 |
| oiaohm | The issue is knowing what task it was. | Nov 06 09:49 |
| tessier | But many of them could have been done by another programming language at least as well. | Nov 06 09:50 |
| tessier | Emacs used the already existing lisp which worked out famously well. Cool. vim invented its own language. Not cool. | Nov 06 09:50 |
| oiaohm | vim was trying to work to memory limits. | Nov 06 09:53 |
| oiaohm | lisp is not what you call ram friendly. | Nov 06 09:53 |
| tessier | vimscript was invented relatively recently when we have had tons of RAM | Nov 06 09:58 |
| tessier | It doesn't use any less than elisp | Nov 06 09:58 |
| *tessier goes to bed | Nov 06 10:00 | |
| tessier | night all | Nov 06 10:00 |
| oiaohm | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzY3OA This will be interesting 1 test suite all OS's. | Nov 06 10:04 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: [Phoronix] They Say A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words .::. Size~: 15.55 KB | Nov 06 10:04 |
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| cubezzz | no one seems to use lisp now | Nov 06 10:12 |
| *oiaohm Sees cubezzz being fried alive by emacs users | Nov 06 10:12 | |
| MinceR | :D | Nov 06 10:17 |
| MinceR | vim > emacs | Nov 06 10:18 |
| MinceR | vimscript is readable, lisp isn't. | Nov 06 10:18 |
| cubezzz | I've always used vi | Nov 06 10:18 |
| cubezzz | since Xenix days | Nov 06 10:19 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Vista7 Sales Not Good, #Microsoft Does Not Want to Talk About It http://ping.fm/0PaVJ | Nov 06 10:27 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Vista 7 Sales Not Good, Microsoft Does Not Want to Talk About It | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 93.86 KB | Nov 06 10:27 |
| MinceR | i started with UltraEdit, then Emacs, then Kate, then SciTE, and finally Vim | Nov 06 10:28 |
| MinceR | iirc | Nov 06 10:28 |
| MinceR | hm, actually there was m$-dos Editor, Multi-Edit and the DOS Navigator editor back when i was using dos :> | Nov 06 10:29 |
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| cubezzz | guess you didn't use mince :) | Nov 06 10:31 |
| MinceR | i haven't heard of such an editor | Nov 06 10:33 |
| cubezzz | for CP/M | Nov 06 10:33 |
| cubezzz | it came with source though | Nov 06 10:33 |
| oiaohm | edlin anyone. | Nov 06 10:34 |
| MinceR | ew, no thanks | Nov 06 10:36 |
| cubezzz | does not vi pre-date emacs? | Nov 06 10:36 |
| oiaohm | I remember using that back on dos 2.0 | Nov 06 10:36 |
| oiaohm | emacs predates vi cubezzz | Nov 06 10:36 |
| oiaohm | emacs very quickly become huge. | Nov 06 10:37 |
| cubezzz | both came out in 1976 I see | Nov 06 10:37 |
| cubezzz | I wonder what people used before that | Nov 06 10:37 |
| MinceR | ex :> | Nov 06 10:38 |
| MinceR | oh, and TECO ;) | Nov 06 10:38 |
| oiaohm | only just predates cubezzz | Nov 06 10:39 |
| oiaohm | http://science.slashdot.org/story/09/11/06/0824213/LHC-Shut-Down-Again-mdash-By-Baguette-Dropping-Bird Got of feel sorry for these guys. | Nov 06 10:42 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Slashdot | LHC Shut Down Again — By Baguette-Dropping Bird .::. Size~: 85.34 KB | Nov 06 10:42 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] .@johnbirmingham on writing voice http://www.cheeseburgergothic.com/archives/922 | Nov 06 10:46 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Cheeseburger Gothic » Friday writing blog: Voice. .::. Size~: 64.5 KB | Nov 06 10:46 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Plays Ball in #Europe http://ping.fm/nNx1R #antirust | Nov 06 10:50 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft Plays Ball in Europe | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 93.03 KB | Nov 06 10:50 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: why feel sorry. Look at their budget. | Nov 06 10:51 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: why feel sorry? They have a field day with like 20bn euro | Nov 06 10:51 |
| cubezzz | "This incident won't delay the reactivation of the facility later this month" | Nov 06 10:53 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: More the jokes that can be made about it schestowitz | Nov 06 10:54 |
| schestowitz | EIF has a FFII analysis... still work in progress. https://action.ffii.org/eif | Nov 06 10:57 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: European Interoperability Framework 2.0 (leaked draft) - Action groups .::. Size~: 12.76 KB | Nov 06 10:57 |
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| phIRCe-local | Title: Blogs | Quassel IRC .::. Size~: 26.89 KB | Nov 06 11:04 |
| oiaohm | http://fakeoffice.org/ LOL | Nov 06 11:08 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Why does Microsoft say Zoho is the Fake Office? .::. Size~: 13.55 KB | Nov 06 11:08 |
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| who_am_I | hii all | Nov 06 11:10 |
| who_am_I | can any one say that is evolution in SLED 11 supporting exchange 2007? | Nov 06 11:11 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Is #Microsoft Planning a Coup in #Brazil ? http://ping.fm/uzFPb | Nov 06 11:11 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Is Microsoft Planning a Coup in Brazil? | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 90.93 KB | Nov 06 11:11 |
| oiaohm | I wish next samba would get on line to make the war with MS more active. | Nov 06 11:14 |
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| who_am_I | can any one say that is evolution in SLED 11 supporting exchange 2007? | Nov 06 11:19 |
| oiaohm | Really when kontact works perfectly on windows why will exchange remain a issue. | Nov 06 11:25 |
| cubezzz | schestowitz, where is Microsoft _not_ planning a Coup? Mars? :) | Nov 06 11:25 |
| oiaohm | Particularly if you are taking note that kontact back end is developing a unified web interface and client that remains in perfect real time sync who_am_I | Nov 06 11:26 |
| cubezzz | well m3u files are nothing to worry about at least | Nov 06 11:26 |
| cubezzz | got jazz-fm streaming on the zaurus :) | Nov 06 11:26 |
| cubezzz | anyway, Brazil will do what it wants, Microsoft is irrelevant | Nov 06 11:28 |
| oiaohm | Brazil is even funding to make autocad irrelevant. | Nov 06 11:28 |
| oiaohm | Brazil is targeting everything they have to pay money overseas for. | Nov 06 11:28 |
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| cubezzz | I want to say North America shouldn't have let Microsoft just take over | Nov 06 11:30 |
| cubezzz | 1992-1995 is went things went really wrong | Nov 06 11:30 |
| oiaohm | The death nail was 2000 | Nov 06 11:32 |
| cubezzz | Unix was just to brutal for the masses to learn | Nov 06 11:32 |
| cubezzz | too | Nov 06 11:32 |
| oiaohm | Secure still comes with a price. | Nov 06 11:32 |
| oiaohm | Of not always being user friendly. | Nov 06 11:32 |
| oiaohm | amiga os was not hard to learn cubezzz but network lock outs made it unable to be used in businesses | Nov 06 11:33 |
| cubezzz | oiaohm, some TV stations used Amigas | Nov 06 11:34 |
| cubezzz | mainstream businesses, probably not | Nov 06 11:34 |
| cubezzz | I think Radio Shack was using some kind of Unix on the back end | Nov 06 11:34 |
| cubezzz | not sure if they still do | Nov 06 11:34 |
| oiaohm | Its mainstream that caused the destruction. | Nov 06 11:35 |
| oiaohm | SBS server market is kinda critical. | Nov 06 11:35 |
| cubezzz | Commodore was really mismanaged though | Nov 06 11:35 |
| cubezzz | you need good leadership at the top | Nov 06 11:35 |
| oiaohm | Up until 2000 MS has Samba and Novell netware fighting them in SBS. | Nov 06 11:35 |
| oiaohm | ADS in Windows is very much based off what Samba was doing from 1996 - 2000 | Nov 06 11:36 |
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| cubezzz | yes and the DOJ didn't break them up of course | Nov 06 11:36 |
| oiaohm | But the protocals were stuffed up so samba could not intergrate. | Nov 06 11:36 |
| cubezzz | but if they toss Microsoft away completely, then no problem | Nov 06 11:37 |
| oiaohm | Its taken 10 years but everything now is starting to get back on track to relight competion. | Nov 06 11:37 |
| who_am_I | can any one say that is evolution in SLED 11 supporting exchange 2007? | Nov 06 11:40 |
| cubezzz | oiaohm, what is the FOSS equivalent to Windows SBS? | Nov 06 11:42 |
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| *amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04 | Nov 06 11:47 | |
| zer0c00l|dnd | who_am_I: Really? | Nov 06 11:51 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | who_am_I: Why a standard email client can't get email from MS exchange? MS corrupts pop3 and imap too? | Nov 06 11:52 |
| oiaohm | cubezzz: only bit really missing is ADS to control windows clients | Nov 06 11:53 |
| cubezzz | in 80s I remember token ring and starlan | Nov 06 11:54 |
| oiaohm | Foss ERP programs that intergrate with kontact covers the rest of the feature + more that MS likes bundling into WIndows SBS. | Nov 06 11:55 |
| cubezzz | can't even think what Amiga did for networking :-/ | Nov 06 11:55 |
| oiaohm | Sneaker net cubezzz | Nov 06 11:56 |
| cubezzz | maybe there was Zorro-II ethernet cards, but I don't remember them | Nov 06 11:58 |
| cubezzz | PCMCIA ethernet card on "newer" Amiga models | Nov 06 11:58 |
| oiaohm | First generation Amiga did not. | Nov 06 11:59 |
| cubezzz | Amiga 1000? :) | Nov 06 11:59 |
| oiaohm | I would have to dig it out. I have it around here somewhere. | Nov 06 12:01 |
| cubezzz | ethernet, yet another Xerox PARC invention | Nov 06 12:01 |
| cubezzz | damn, they invented everything | Nov 06 12:01 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] What Microsoft’s #BradSilverberg , #BillGates, and #Capone Have in Common http://ping.fm/2bil4 | Nov 06 12:02 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: What Microsofts Brad Silverberg, Bill Gates, and Al Capone Have in Common | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 95.29 KB | Nov 06 12:02 |
| oiaohm | We really have been in the dark ages cubezzz | Nov 06 12:03 |
| oiaohm | Xerox PARC was a golden time for computer development. | Nov 06 12:04 |
| cubezzz | oiaohm, I do feel we are getting _out_ of a software dark ages | Nov 06 12:05 |
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| cubezzz | http://cgi.ebay.com/RTL8029-Ethernet-Card-Amiga-Mediator-G-Rex-Prometheus_W0QQitemZ200383329637QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Computers_Vintage?hash=item2ea7c6f565 | Nov 06 12:06 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: RTL8029 Ethernet Card - Amiga Mediator/G-Rex/Prometheus - eBay (item 200383329637 end time Nov-11-09 16:16:35 PST) .::. Size~: 65.26 KB | Nov 06 12:06 |
| cubezzz | I always wanted an Amiga 4000 | Nov 06 12:07 |
| cubezzz | at least computer parts are cheap now | Nov 06 12:08 |
| cubezzz | I paid $1300 CAN for my first Amiga hard drive | Nov 06 12:08 |
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| oiaohm | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28gpcc_CHLc&NR=1 These are going to be fun in nexuiz. | Nov 06 12:09 |
| cubezzz | Commodore was sold a total of 1 million Amiga 1200's by the time it when bankrupt in 1994 | Nov 06 12:16 |
| cubezzz | was=had | Nov 06 12:16 |
| amarsh04 | one friend of mine has a Commodore65 (not a mis-print, yes Commodore65) | Nov 06 12:20 |
| cubezzz | yes, a real collector's computer | Nov 06 12:22 |
| cubezzz | never saw one except on the net | Nov 06 12:22 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] I always find it odd when I am on a Wikipedia page and I see the name of someone I know in the edit history. Dunno why #fb | Nov 06 12:23 | |
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| amarsh04 | off to work again... | Nov 06 12:40 |
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| schestowitz | OK, one last post.... | Nov 06 12:42 |
| schestowitz | Maybe tomorrow we'll hit 8,000 posts | Nov 06 12:42 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Find out how much google knows about you .RD: @abbe: http://tinyurl.com/y98d399 #slashdot #privacy #google | Nov 06 12:48 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Slashdot Your Rights Online Story | Dashboard Reveals What Google Knows About You .::. Size~: 146.94 KB | Nov 06 12:48 |
| wallc | Good morning :) | Nov 06 12:56 |
| schestowitz | Hey! | Nov 06 13:00 |
| schestowitz | Groklaw mentioned our work. Go team. | Nov 06 13:00 |
| schestowitz | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091028211001746 "Update: The BoycottNovell folks have found one. We have it here also, on our Comes Exhibits page, Plaintiffs Exhibit 2158, which is an email from Microsoft’s Satoshi Nakajima, dated October 10, 1994." | Nov 06 13:01 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Groklaw - Novell and Microsoft both file summary judgment motions in the WordPerfect antitrust case - Updated .::. Size~: 110.25 KB | Nov 06 13:01 |
| schestowitz | The server is so hammered right now I can't write any posts. | Nov 06 13:02 |
| schestowitz | it's stablising gradually. load average: 4.97, 6.71, 7.35 | Nov 06 13:02 |
| oiaohm | http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/11/06/vista-sold-more-pcs-than-windows-7-did/ | Nov 06 13:04 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 06 13:04 |
| MinceR | vista sold pcs? | Nov 06 13:11 |
| MinceR | isn't that the other way around? | Nov 06 13:11 |
| oiaohm | Exactly. | Nov 06 13:11 |
| oiaohm | Something is wrong. | Nov 06 13:11 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #VicePresident of #MSN #AdCenter Rumoured Out, Microsoft #Labour Moves Abroad http://ping.fm/vdshv | Nov 06 13:12 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Vice President of MSN AdCenter Rumoured Out, Microsoft Labour Moves Abroad, Microsoft Grasping Onto “Open Source” | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 98.59 KB | Nov 06 13:12 |
| schestowitz | WHat an immature Microsoft crony: http://twitter.com/jlundstocholm/statuses/5474903942 | Nov 06 13:14 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Twitter / Jesper Lund Stocholm: @al3xbrown OMG OMG OMG OMF ... .::. Size~: 10.3 KB | Nov 06 13:14 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: yesterday he was booosting Vista 7 | Nov 06 13:15 |
| schestowitz | I wouldn't pay too much attention to it | Nov 06 13:15 |
| schestowitz | See japan commnts | Nov 06 13:15 |
| oiaohm | Last few years OSS world has been going through major changes. | Nov 06 13:17 |
| oiaohm | More and more projects are using formal development modules. | Nov 06 13:17 |
| oiaohm | modules/models. | Nov 06 13:18 |
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| wallc | Yes, I saw Groklaw. It's funny that BN might be helpful to Novell against MS. But in the end, if Novell gets the evidence it needs, I think it will just make Microsoft offer to settle sooner. I imagine any settlement agreement will be secret, so Novell will get some money, and Microsoft will be free to spin it all into a happy ending... | Nov 06 13:28 |
| schestowitz | I know, that's what I don't like about it | Nov 06 13:29 |
| schestowitz | Cash from Microsoft to Novell is an infusion | Nov 06 13:29 |
| schestowitz | Novell needs to spin off SUSE and other FOSS parts | Nov 06 13:29 |
| schestowitz | Then Novell can sod off peacefully, without pushing its rotten apples like Mono into Microsoft's #1 rival | Nov 06 13:30 |
| wallc | On the other hand, it does, once again, shine the spotlight on Microsoft's bad behavior. | Nov 06 13:30 |
| wallc | When you say "spin off" do you mean sell it? | Nov 06 13:33 |
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| schestowitz | I had to shorted the past that said: | Nov 06 13:39 |
| schestowitz | So, why has not Gnote replaced Tomboy on the CD? Could it be that there | Nov 06 13:39 |
| schestowitz | are ideological reasons backed only by the Monoguard, who have been | Nov 06 13:39 |
| schestowitz | allowed to shit in the pocket of Mark Shuttleworth's project? | Nov 06 13:39 |
| schestowitz | " | Nov 06 13:39 |
| schestowitz | Just posted something | Nov 06 13:39 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Gnote Would Fit Nicely in #Ubuntu 10.04 (Default Install) http://ping.fm/Gf9LY #mono | Nov 06 13:39 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Gnote Would Fit Nicely in Ubuntu 10.04 (Default Install) | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 93.6 KB | Nov 06 13:39 |
| schestowitz | wallc: yes | Nov 06 13:39 |
| schestowitz | s/shorted/shorten/ | Nov 06 13:39 |
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| oiaohm | Some of the suse developers we want from Novell. | Nov 06 13:41 |
| oiaohm | The rest can just rot away. | Nov 06 13:41 |
| wallc | If they sold SUSE, wouldn't it be likely they'd sell it to a company that is willing to sign a patent deal with MS? | Nov 06 13:43 |
| _Hicham_ | openSUSE is still a great OS | Nov 06 13:44 |
| _Hicham_ | I am gonna try the final 11.2 | Nov 06 13:44 |
| _Hicham_ | they were the first to introduce delta rpms | Nov 06 13:45 |
| oiaohm | Note I said SUSE developers. Not SUSE wallc | Nov 06 13:45 |
| wallc | I see. | Nov 06 13:45 |
| _Hicham_ | SUSE developers, yes | Nov 06 13:45 |
| oiaohm | Some particular developers are more important than any distribution just due to there skill set. | Nov 06 13:45 |
| _Hicham_ | like Graig Kroah Hartman | Nov 06 13:46 |
| _Hicham_ | would wrote udev | Nov 06 13:46 |
| oiaohm | Distributions can be replaced. They are only mixes of open source projects. | Nov 06 13:46 |
| oiaohm | Developers on the other hand cannot be made that simply. | Nov 06 13:46 |
| _Hicham_ | openSUSE is not mono only | Nov 06 13:46 |
| _Hicham_ | I strongly disagree with that | Nov 06 13:47 |
| _Hicham_ | Ubuntu is probably more filled with Mono out of the box | Nov 06 13:47 |
| _Hicham_ | as I said, I tested openSUSE earlier, and it performs great | Nov 06 13:47 |
| _Hicham_ | with one exception | Nov 06 13:47 |
| _Hicham_ | yast-software-manager | Nov 06 13:48 |
| _Hicham_ | but that is normal with multiple repos | Nov 06 13:48 |
| oiaohm | The idea of distributions need to die. | Nov 06 13:48 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : ? | Nov 06 13:48 |
| wallc | oiaohm? | Nov 06 13:49 |
| _Hicham_ | and how will we have an OS ? | Nov 06 13:49 |
| oiaohm | Upstream is far more important than distributions. | Nov 06 13:49 |
| _Hicham_ | are u gone nuts ? | Nov 06 13:49 |
| _Hicham_ | how people will be able to install software ? | Nov 06 13:49 |
| oiaohm | Ask yourself why upstream cannot directly ship software to end users _Hicham_ | Nov 06 13:50 |
| oiaohm | They can for windows. | Nov 06 13:50 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : bacause Windows is completely monolithic, from kernel to userspace apps | Nov 06 13:51 |
| oiaohm | Distributions cause massive ammounts of duplications of work. | Nov 06 13:51 |
| _Hicham_ | so u know exactly a lot of things are going to be there | Nov 06 13:51 |
| _Hicham_ | and the Windows API is basically the same | Nov 06 13:51 |
| _Hicham_ | across multiple versions | Nov 06 13:52 |
| oiaohm | The Linux kernel syscalls stay the same across multiple versions. | Nov 06 13:52 |
| _Hicham_ | and dlls are changed rarely | Nov 06 13:52 |
| oiaohm | Weak management in ld.so for muli lib versions. | Nov 06 13:52 |
| _Hicham_ | if not, u can ship them | Nov 06 13:52 |
| oiaohm | LOL _Hicham_ Windows has SXS for a reason. | Nov 06 13:52 |
| _Hicham_ | we can do the same in linux | Nov 06 13:53 |
| _Hicham_ | u can ship ur own libraries | Nov 06 13:53 |
| oiaohm | Most people not aware how many duplicate .dll are in windows so it works. | Nov 06 13:53 |
| _Hicham_ | yes, i know that | Nov 06 13:53 |
| _Hicham_ | but in linux, we try to have a consistent experience | Nov 06 13:53 |
| _Hicham_ | so that : " let's move to a new library" | Nov 06 13:54 |
| oiaohm | The framework for supporting direct upstream applications into distributions could be done _Hicham_ | Nov 06 13:54 |
| _Hicham_ | unlike windows | Nov 06 13:54 |
| _Hicham_ | it is there | Nov 06 13:54 |
| oiaohm | But distributions don't have the will to work with each other to do that completely. | Nov 06 13:54 |
| _Hicham_ | haven't got to be done | Nov 06 13:54 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Mau crl, nobody messes with geeks... | Nov 06 13:54 | |
| oiaohm | I am in the LSB packaging list _Hicham_ | Nov 06 13:54 |
| oiaohm | I have seen the wars. | Nov 06 13:54 |
| _Hicham_ | of course there would be wars | Nov 06 13:54 |
| oiaohm | Only solution really left is to let distributions die. | Nov 06 13:55 |
| _Hicham_ | because rpm have been choosed over others | Nov 06 13:55 |
| oiaohm | No. | Nov 06 13:55 |
| fewa | deb v rpm is big | Nov 06 13:55 |
| oiaohm | You are aware RPM chioce was a vote. | Nov 06 13:55 |
| _Hicham_ | but Debian family won't agree | Nov 06 13:55 |
| oiaohm | That everyone agree to then when the vote did not go deb way. | Nov 06 13:55 |
| oiaohm | Bust up. | Nov 06 13:55 |
| fewa | but there are other differences | Nov 06 13:56 |
| fewa | red hat has a messier etc file outlook | Nov 06 13:56 |
| oiaohm | Only way forward now is provide way for upstream to disreguard distributions. | Nov 06 13:56 |
| oiaohm | So creating a huge mother of mess forcing them to table. | Nov 06 13:57 |
| _Hicham_ | distributions don't care | Nov 06 13:57 |
| _Hicham_ | every distro try to promote its package manager | Nov 06 13:57 |
| oiaohm | What is package kit project about. | Nov 06 13:57 |
| oiaohm | And its intergration into wm's. | Nov 06 13:58 |
| oiaohm | its about making that package manager not important. | Nov 06 13:58 |
| _Hicham_ | about creating an abstraction layer over package managers | Nov 06 13:58 |
| _Hicham_ | i was just talking to richard hughes, its lead developer | Nov 06 13:58 |
| oiaohm | So upstream will be able to disreguard it. | Nov 06 13:58 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : no | Nov 06 13:58 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : u r missing the point | Nov 06 13:59 |
| _Hicham_ | packagekit is there to make developing software easy | Nov 06 13:59 |
| oiaohm | solves two problems. | Nov 06 13:59 |
| _Hicham_ | and installing it easy | Nov 06 13:59 |
| oiaohm | The effect of packagekit on debian has them to release a qt and gtk form of the main package management tools. | Nov 06 14:00 |
| oiaohm | Resistance to the idea that there is really not room for all this duplication of work. | Nov 06 14:00 |
| _Hicham_ | it solves mainly the problem of querying files needed for a program | Nov 06 14:00 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : what are u talking about ? | Nov 06 14:01 |
| _Hicham_ | packagekit toolkit independant | Nov 06 14:01 |
| _Hicham_ | it is written in python | Nov 06 14:01 |
| _Hicham_ | it has too gui frontend for the moment | Nov 06 14:01 |
| _Hicham_ | gnome and kde | Nov 06 14:01 |
| oiaohm | I know _Hicham_ | Nov 06 14:01 |
| _Hicham_ | the gnome one is still better | Nov 06 14:01 |
| oiaohm | aptituide also has got QT and GTK front ends now. | Nov 06 14:02 |
| oiaohm | Formed straight after packagekit started to make progress. | Nov 06 14:02 |
| _Hicham_ | aptitude is not an abstraction layer | Nov 06 14:02 |
| _Hicham_ | can't be compared to packagekit | Nov 06 14:02 |
| _Hicham_ | aptitude is a package manager | Nov 06 14:02 |
| oiaohm | They don't want abstraction. | Nov 06 14:03 |
| _Hicham_ | packagekit works with : yum, apt, urpmi, zypper, conary and other | Nov 06 14:03 |
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| oiaohm | Its been forced on them by upstream. _Hicham_ | Nov 06 14:03 |
| _Hicham_ | huh, that is what package kit is about | Nov 06 14:03 |
| _Hicham_ | no, it is a smart idea from richard hughes | Nov 06 14:03 |
| oiaohm | Debian is not alone lot of distribution. | Nov 06 14:03 |
| oiaohm | distributions don't want merge package management. They want control. | Nov 06 14:04 |
| _Hicham_ | instead of forcing distros to abandon their package managers, he choosed to create an abstraction layer | Nov 06 14:04 |
| _Hicham_ | mainly to achieve the purpose of having installers that work with available files in the distros | Nov 06 14:05 |
| oiaohm | LSB never was about forcing them to abandon there package managers either. | Nov 06 14:05 |
| oiaohm | RPM was just a abstration requirement. | Nov 06 14:05 |
| _Hicham_ | rpm an abstraction? | Nov 06 14:06 |
| _Hicham_ | how ? | Nov 06 14:06 |
| _Hicham_ | i don't get | Nov 06 14:06 |
| _Hicham_ | it | Nov 06 14:06 |
| oiaohm | rpm is a fileformat. | Nov 06 14:06 |
| oiaohm | You don't have to use to with rpm database back end. | Nov 06 14:06 |
| _Hicham_ | but u need rpm to reed it | Nov 06 14:06 |
| oiaohm | No. | Nov 06 14:06 |
| _Hicham_ | s/reed/read | Nov 06 14:07 |
| oiaohm | alien reads it along with other tools. | Nov 06 14:07 |
| _Hicham_ | alien read it via rpm | Nov 06 14:07 |
| oiaohm | Its a cpio archive. | Nov 06 14:07 |
| oiaohm | You don't need rpm to open it. | Nov 06 14:07 |
| oiaohm | Its basically a fancy zip with meta data. | Nov 06 14:08 |
| _Hicham_ | i am not talking about the archive aspect | Nov 06 14:08 |
| _Hicham_ | i am talking about the metadata | Nov 06 14:08 |
| _Hicham_ | the installation scripts | Nov 06 14:08 |
| oiaohm | You are aware lsb rpm is not a normal rpm metadata | Nov 06 14:08 |
| _Hicham_ | different from existing one ? | Nov 06 14:09 |
| oiaohm | Its different to the point special sections have to be maintained in rpm to support it. | Nov 06 14:09 |
| oiaohm | rpm was only the base LSB used. | Nov 06 14:09 |
| oiaohm | Other requested features were added in the LSB rpm. | Nov 06 14:09 |
| oiaohm | That are not found in non LSB rpm files. | Nov 06 14:10 |
| _Hicham_ | they would have chosen another name, other than rpm | Nov 06 14:10 |
| _Hicham_ | because distros won't concede | Nov 06 14:10 |
| oiaohm | LSB RPM is it formal name _Hicham_ | Nov 06 14:10 |
| oiaohm | Not rpm. | Nov 06 14:11 |
| _Hicham_ | still, they would have avoided the rpm in the name | Nov 06 14:11 |
| oiaohm | No basic design is rpm. It was a toss up between basic design deb and basic design rpm. | Nov 06 14:11 |
| _Hicham_ | rpm is more straightforward to package for than deb | Nov 06 14:12 |
| _Hicham_ | since everything is put in a single spec file | Nov 06 14:12 |
| oiaohm | It also more straight forward to add extra features to | Nov 06 14:13 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | RPM is not a cpio archive oiaohm | Nov 06 14:13 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | *cpio* | Nov 06 14:13 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | O_O | Nov 06 14:13 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | though i have never packaged for debian/ubuntu, i feel rpm is pretty straight forward as _Hicham_ said | Nov 06 14:14 |
| _Hicham_ | it is easier, at least for me | Nov 06 14:15 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | There is a conference is going to be conducted on rpm | Nov 06 14:16 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : lsb rpm won't go nowhere | Nov 06 14:16 |
| _Hicham_ | because nothing can be forced on distributions | Nov 06 14:17 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | oiaohm: The coolness about rpm is it separate the maintainer modification from the upstream ;) | Nov 06 14:18 |
| oiaohm | LSB RPM is farly simple to skip header zer0c00l|dnd | Nov 06 14:18 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | oiaohm: you will know if you have used 'rpmlint' | Nov 06 14:18 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | oiaohm: i package for fedora, the Quality Assurance system there is very good | Nov 06 14:19 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | we use something called mock,koji and bodhi | Nov 06 14:19 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | koji uses mock; | Nov 06 14:19 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | koji is a build system and bodhi is a update system; | Nov 06 14:19 |
| schestowitz | http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/finger/finger.pl?user=icculus&date=2009-11-03&time=19-08-04 | Nov 06 14:19 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: I've been so damned tired. .::. Size~: 3.26 KB | Nov 06 14:19 |
| schestowitz | About packaging. | Nov 06 14:20 |
| schestowitz | FatELF.. | Nov 06 14:20 |
| oiaohm | zer0c00l|dnd: Don't you get the issue. Where should the Quality Assurance be done. | Nov 06 14:20 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | where? | Nov 06 14:20 |
| oiaohm | Lot of packages lack effective test kits upstream to maintain Quality. | Nov 06 14:21 |
| oiaohm | So distributions are doing the Quality testing fragmented. | Nov 06 14:21 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : we still need that | Nov 06 14:21 |
| _Hicham_ | upstream can't do all the tests | Nov 06 14:22 |
| _Hicham_ | a distribution is the most proper place to do it | Nov 06 14:22 |
| oiaohm | We need Quality testing 100 percent intergrated upstream. | Nov 06 14:22 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : how ? | Nov 06 14:22 |
| oiaohm | Distributions doing it alone miss tests. | Nov 06 14:22 |
| oiaohm | Also in the case of Ubuntu end up appling patches that don't fix problems instead make matters worse for upstream. | Nov 06 14:23 |
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| oiaohm | Basically the model is bust. Distributions and QA does not work. All it means is duplication of building of binaries. More binaries to test. More binaries to patch. More issue due to patches not independanly audited. | Nov 06 14:25 |
| oiaohm | ABI verations that should not be happening at upstream due to lack of test suites introduction more problems. | Nov 06 14:25 |
| oiaohm | Basically a nightmare with no end. | Nov 06 14:25 |
| fewa | "communists that want to socialize for nazism" | Nov 06 14:25 |
| fewa | LOLOL | Nov 06 14:25 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | oiaohm: I meant the quality of rpm packages itself; | Nov 06 14:26 |
| schestowitz | wallc: Groklaw talks about me.. I said: "it's really the patent deal that I oppose. I never chose the name "BoycottNovell" (I would never have)." | Nov 06 14:26 |
| oiaohm | Same applies to everything zer0c00l|dnd do all distributions using rpm test them to the same quality level | Nov 06 14:27 |
| oiaohm | Answer no. | Nov 06 14:27 |
| schestowitz | fewa: political/religious slurs. Jason, who used to hang out here, writes now: http://www.the-source.com/2009/11/your-attention-please-i-have-a-denouncement/ "I’ve seen this first hand, an explicit attempt to excommunicate people from the community. " | Nov 06 14:27 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Your attention please: I have a Denouncement .::. Size~: 16.92 KB | Nov 06 14:27 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | heh | Nov 06 14:27 |
| schestowitz | I guess it makes Jason part of the "taliban" | Nov 06 14:27 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | its not the the fault of rpm | Nov 06 14:27 |
| oiaohm | It the fault of the system zer0c00l|dnd | Nov 06 14:27 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | oiaohm: thats your opinion | Nov 06 14:28 |
| oiaohm | The fragmenation has to end to get on top of it zer0c00l|dnd | Nov 06 14:28 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | oiaohm: What are you trying to do? | Nov 06 14:28 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | s/do/tell me | Nov 06 14:28 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | schestowitz: I do feel FatELF is a junk; | Nov 06 14:29 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | s/do/too | Nov 06 14:29 |
| oiaohm | FatELF is the last in a long line of releated times. | Nov 06 14:29 |
| oiaohm | There will be more until a common format exists that works. | Nov 06 14:29 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | oiaohm: Do you know what people likes about GNU/Linux? Its the choice; | Nov 06 14:30 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | oiaohm: Whats the difference between a MS windows and GNU/Linux when everything gets standardized | Nov 06 14:30 |
| oiaohm | And what a lot of people hate is the lack of means to run the lastest release of applications zer0c00l|dnd | Nov 06 14:31 |
| oiaohm | In lots of distributions. | Nov 06 14:31 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | oiaohm: I don't care really; I would compile it myself | Nov 06 14:31 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | oiaohm: And i don't care about who uses or hates it | Nov 06 14:31 |
| oiaohm | Not everyone knows how to do that zer0c00l|dnd. | Nov 06 14:31 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | oiaohm: If you feel some app is *outdated* then come join the community and package that | Nov 06 14:32 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | oiaohm: Free software lives regardless of who uses it; | Nov 06 14:33 |
| oiaohm | Ok who can package before release so its ready at release time zer0c00l|dnd | Nov 06 14:33 |
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| oiaohm | Only 1 group of people unless you are insane and package svn images. | Nov 06 14:33 |
| oiaohm | The upstream. | Nov 06 14:33 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | oiaohm: Seems like you have never seen ubuntu ppa | Nov 06 14:33 |
| oiaohm | O yes I have. | Nov 06 14:34 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | oiaohm: There are lot of *insane* people | Nov 06 14:34 |
| oiaohm | And I have been a upstream support person on the recieving end of that. | Nov 06 14:34 |
| oiaohm | Not fun. | Nov 06 14:34 |
| oiaohm | Person telling you they have X version when they really have a snap shot before release packaged as that version missing many key patches that were done before release. | Nov 06 14:35 |
| oiaohm | Really not fun at all zer0c00l|dnd | Nov 06 14:35 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | ok | Nov 06 14:35 |
| zer0c00l|dnd | oiaohm: ok | Nov 06 14:35 |
| *zer0c00l|dnd is now known as zer0c00l|Away | Nov 06 14:36 | |
| oiaohm | Even worse like Ubuntu users now turning up claiming running a non existantant wine verison. | Nov 06 14:37 |
| oiaohm | ie wine 1.2.0 its not even released. You know they have something development and have to ask them to find out. | Nov 06 14:37 |
| oiaohm | Now that is going to cause a pack of headaches when 1.2.0 does get released. | Nov 06 14:38 |
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| schestowitz | http://linuxcrunch.com/content/how-use-empathy-messenger | Nov 06 14:42 |
| schestowitz | The Boycott Boycott Novell site appears to exist to discredit and criticize | Nov 06 14:42 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: How to use Empathy Messenger | We love Linux ! .::. Size~: 48.75 KB | Nov 06 14:42 |
| schestowitz | anyone critical of Mono, especially the Boycott Novell kid and Richard Stallman. | Nov 06 14:42 |
| schestowitz | Since the creators and Miguel de Icaza are chums on Twitter, and de Icaza | Nov 06 14:42 |
| schestowitz | actually announced the site on his twitter page, it's basically an open air | Nov 06 14:42 |
| schestowitz | astroturf effort by Novell. | Nov 06 14:42 |
| schestowitz | There has been a spate of anti Stallman, anti "Free" braying of late | Nov 06 14:42 |
| schestowitz | coming from people like Matt Asay, Thom whatsisname and others which seems to | Nov 06 14:42 |
| schestowitz | accompany this thrust to eschew the principles of Free Software and their | Nov 06 14:42 |
| schestowitz | annoying criticism of Mono in favor of "pragmatists". | Nov 06 14:42 |
| schestowitz | From: http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20091001211424451&title=New+site+-+Boycott+Boycott-Novell&type=article&order=&hideanonymous=0&pid=791351#c791354 | Nov 06 14:42 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Groklaw - Digging for Truth .::. Size~: 15.69 KB | Nov 06 14:42 |
| _Hicham_ | pragmatists use mono | Nov 06 14:46 |
| schestowitz | That's not the right classification | Nov 06 14:47 |
| schestowitz | It implies that others are "not pragmatic" | Nov 06 14:47 |
| schestowitz | It's like 'communism" or "unfit for commercial use" slur | Nov 06 14:47 |
| schestowitz | "principled" is a better word | Nov 06 14:48 |
| schestowitz | The principles of Freedom | Nov 06 14:48 |
| fewa | schestowitz, wtf | Nov 06 14:48 |
| fewa | oh wait | Nov 06 14:48 |
| _Hicham_ | people have to u use mono, otherwise they are labeled outdated | Nov 06 14:50 |
| schestowitz | Why does Andy carry on giving the Microsoft Foundry attention? http://www.consortiuminfo.org/standardsblog/article.php?story=20091105083227503 | Nov 06 14:50 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Checking in on CodePlex - ConsortiumInfo.org .::. Size~: 49.9 KB | Nov 06 14:50 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: yeah, assuming that future=Microsoft | Nov 06 14:50 |
| _Hicham_ | and host our projects in codeplex instead of sourceforge | Nov 06 14:51 |
| zer0c00l|Away | schestowitz: In ubuntu 10.04 are they going to replace tomboy with gnote? | Nov 06 14:51 |
| _Hicham_ | no | Nov 06 14:51 |
| _Hicham_ | tomboy will stay there | Nov 06 14:51 |
| _Hicham_ | forever | Nov 06 14:51 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: maybe Microsoft will give gifts :-D yay! | Nov 06 14:51 |
| _Hicham_ | ubuntu is promoting mono | Nov 06 14:51 |
| zer0c00l|Away | x( | Nov 06 14:51 |
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| _Hicham_ | here is the famous daemon | Nov 06 14:52 |
| zer0c00l|Away | :D | Nov 06 14:52 |
| zer0c00l|Away | hahhaa | Nov 06 14:52 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: well, it's endorsed by Novell/Miguel (CodePl0x) | Nov 06 14:52 |
| DaemonFC | the Daemon, with his huge honkin' quad core and more RAM than a field of sheep | Nov 06 14:52 |
| DaemonFC | yes, here's DaemonFC | Nov 06 14:52 |
| zer0c00l|Away | Damn, they have coupled tomboy with ubuntu one; | Nov 06 14:53 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: he's back from work, assembling Tomahawk missiles | Nov 06 14:53 |
| schestowitz | :-p | Nov 06 14:53 |
| zer0c00l|Away | AFAIK it syncs tomnotes online x( | Nov 06 14:53 |
| _Hicham_ | zer0c00l|Away : r u using tomboy | Nov 06 14:54 |
| schestowitz | http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Vulnerability-in-SSL-TLS-protocol-851478.html | Nov 06 14:54 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Vulnerability in SSL/TLS protocol - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 31.77 KB | Nov 06 14:54 |
| zer0c00l|Away | _Hicham_: i removed it about an year back | Nov 06 14:54 |
| zer0c00l|Away | s/an/a | Nov 06 14:54 |
| *zer0c00l|Away is a proud gnote user | Nov 06 14:54 | |
| *zer0c00l|Away is now known as zer0c00l | Nov 06 14:54 | |
| schestowitz | http://linuxriola.wordpress.com/2009/11/05/red-hat-enterprise-virtualization-rhev/ svm ftw | Nov 06 14:54 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Red Hat Enterprise Virtualization (RHEV) « war|olas .::. Size~: 29.5 KB | Nov 06 14:54 |
| _Hicham_ | are u using it in F12 ? | Nov 06 14:54 |
| schestowitz | *kvm | Nov 06 14:54 |
| zer0c00l | _Hicham_: No :), have to upgrade | Nov 06 14:55 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: f12 should not have it | Nov 06 14:55 |
| zer0c00l | _Hicham_: why? | Nov 06 14:55 |
| schestowitz | They replaced it with gnote | Nov 06 14:55 |
| zer0c00l | schestowitz: yes, rahul is maintaining and pushing gnote | Nov 06 14:55 |
| zer0c00l | ;) | Nov 06 14:55 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : i am on Fedora 12 | Nov 06 14:56 |
| fewa | _Hicham_, did they relase the RC? | Nov 06 14:56 |
| _Hicham_ | fewa : not sure | Nov 06 14:57 |
| _Hicham_ | Jesse was pushing it yesterday | Nov 06 14:57 |
| _Hicham_ | but there was a minor issue | Nov 06 14:57 |
| zer0c00l | _Hicham_: What issue? | Nov 06 14:57 |
| zer0c00l | fewa: yes | Nov 06 14:57 |
| zer0c00l | fewa: Fedora 12 RC is in freeze | Nov 06 14:58 |
| zer0c00l | fewa: Expect it this weekend | Nov 06 14:58 |
| _Hicham_ | sthg about release-notes | Nov 06 14:58 |
| _Hicham_ | it seems that F10 release notes were installed with the beta | Nov 06 14:58 |
| zer0c00l | hahaha | Nov 06 14:58 |
| _Hicham_ | yes | Nov 06 14:58 |
| _Hicham_ | i have F10 release notes | Nov 06 14:59 |
| _Hicham_ | just checked it | Nov 06 14:59 |
| _Hicham_ | it was a tagging problem | Nov 06 14:59 |
| zer0c00l | yeah, seen that in mailing list; | Nov 06 15:00 |
| _Hicham_ | the yelp webkit backend is quite ready | Nov 06 15:00 |
| zer0c00l | fewa: An email reads "We are reaching a *very* deep freeze now as we try and get a final | Nov 06 15:00 |
| zer0c00l | release candidate for Fedora 12. " | Nov 06 15:00 |
| _Hicham_ | i tried it, not bad at all | Nov 06 15:01 |
| zer0c00l | _Hicham_: Did you see that Fedora Moblin remix =P ? http://fedora.roving-it.com/FedoraMoblin12-Beta2-LiveCD.iso | Nov 06 15:01 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Not a web page! Aborting application/octet-stream type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 06 15:01 |
| _Hicham_ | zer0c00l : i don't have a netbook | Nov 06 15:02 |
| zer0c00l | ;) | Nov 06 15:02 |
| zer0c00l | ok | Nov 06 15:02 |
| _Hicham_ | otherwise, F12 seems to be more optimized | Nov 06 15:03 |
| _Hicham_ | than previous versions | Nov 06 15:03 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Rep @KeithEllison Republicans have no plan http://ur1.ca/f9j7 @AlanGrayson numbers dead due to lack of real action http://ur1.ca/f9jk #hc | Nov 06 15:03 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Rep. @KeithEllison: Good people have been scared away from policy going to help them! http://ur1.ca/f9j6 #hc | Nov 06 15:03 | |
| schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8346185.stm Heh. The least of the world's problems addressed | Nov 06 15:05 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 81.38 KB | Nov 06 15:05 |
| schestowitz | http://cloudynews.com/2009/11/04/turning-clouds-into-crackers-45-a-password/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook | Nov 06 15:06 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: » Turning clouds into crackers: $45 a password Cloudy News .::. Size~: 25.41 KB | Nov 06 15:06 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-11-06-001-35-RV-UB-0005 | Nov 06 15:07 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Linux Today - Hey Ubuntu, Stop Making Linux Look Bad .::. Size~: 77.91 KB | Nov 06 15:07 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, Indiana has a fake health insurance plan called "Healthy Indiana Plan", set up by our governor, a former Eli Lilly executive | Nov 06 15:07 |
| DaemonFC | It's not even worth taking | Nov 06 15:07 |
| *jose_X (n=jose@adsl-64-57-236.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 06 15:08 | |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] RHEV Explained with history: http://tinyurl.com/yj9qoy4 ( web interface only works with IE ? O_O ) | Nov 06 15:08 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Red Hat Enterprise Virtualization (RHEV) « war|olas .::. Size~: 29.5 KB | Nov 06 15:08 |
| jose_X | schestowitz, could you do me a favor of going to an url and telling me what is the last comment at the bottom of the page? | Nov 06 15:08 |
| DaemonFC | I'd lose my ability to go to my doctor at the clinic I go to now, because I'd have "health insurance", but it's not enough health insurance to help me actually go to my family doctor again or pay for my medication | Nov 06 15:09 |
| jose_X | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/linux_kernel_vulnerability/comments/ | Nov 06 15:09 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Comments on “Bug in latest Linux gives untrusted users root access” • The Register .::. Size~: 79.34 KB | Nov 06 15:09 |
| fewa | is there any good dvr like software I can use to record live streams | Nov 06 15:09 |
| fewa | and cut them | Nov 06 15:09 |
| fewa | and pause and rewind | Nov 06 15:09 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. Car on fire... http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2009/11/04/#20091104-android_mythbusters | Nov 06 15:09 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Harald Welte's blog .::. Size~: 22.13 KB | Nov 06 15:09 |
| DaemonFC | it's a trap so that they can say you have something and don't qualify for the free medicine under the drug company patient assistance programs | Nov 06 15:09 |
| _Hicham_ | fewa : live streams from the internet ? | Nov 06 15:09 |
| fewa | _Hicham_, yeah | Nov 06 15:09 |
| fewa | like mms, rtsp, etc | Nov 06 15:09 |
| DaemonFC | instead of getting it free, 90 days at a time, you get a whopping 15% off | Nov 06 15:09 |
| schestowitz | Eli Lilly has nothing to do with healthcare; it's about monetising illness | Nov 06 15:09 |
| schestowitz | This appointment in IN is a sham | Nov 06 15:10 |
| _Hicham_ | fewa : there is firefox flashgot extension | Nov 06 15:10 |
| fewa | _Hicham_, not flash | Nov 06 15:10 |
| DaemonFC | if your medicine is $200 a bottle like one of mine is, 15% off would make it like $170 | Nov 06 15:10 |
| fewa | _Hicham_, actually live streams | Nov 06 15:10 |
| DaemonFC | that helps a lot :P | Nov 06 15:10 |
| schestowitz | jose_X: sure | Nov 06 15:10 |
| _Hicham_ | fewa : it works for mms too | Nov 06 15:10 |
| fewa | and not in a browser | Nov 06 15:10 |
| _Hicham_ | ah | Nov 06 15:10 |
| jose_X | I posted two comments a day and a half ago (i think you provided the url on BN) and they haven't updated the comments I suppose. | Nov 06 15:10 |
| _Hicham_ | where ? | Nov 06 15:10 |
| fewa | I'm using vlc but it doesn't seem to have pause and rewind | Nov 06 15:10 |
| _Hicham_ | for rtsp there is only one that can do it on linux | Nov 06 15:11 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, The drug companies all have a PAP program to "donate" free medicine to people who are uninsured and near the poverty line. I think most of them say you have to gross about $15,000 a year | Nov 06 15:11 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] The warranty is supposed to be pure profit, not actually claimed on. By claiming, you upset the plans. http://tinyurl.com/ygezrtb | Nov 06 15:11 | |
| schestowitz | jose_X: just seen it | Nov 06 15:11 |
| schestowitz | Yes, we raised this in IRC at the time | Nov 06 15:11 |
| schestowitz | it's wine | Nov 06 15:11 |
| _Hicham_ | the US health system is unhealthy | Nov 06 15:11 |
| DaemonFC | it's a sham that's there to help them evade taxes and evade public criticism for letting poor people do without their medicine | Nov 06 15:11 |
| schestowitz | Register sensationalism+/. effect | Nov 06 15:11 |
| schestowitz | Then Heise also | Nov 06 15:11 |
| jose_X | what is the last comment at the bottom of the page? | Nov 06 15:12 |
| schestowitz | about wine | Nov 06 15:12 |
| jose_X | I wanted to verify that I was refreshing with a fresh copy | Nov 06 15:12 |
| jose_X | can you quote or give the date/time? | Nov 06 15:12 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, When AstraZeneca sends me 90 days of Crestor, they write off $600 fromt heir taxable income | Nov 06 15:12 |
| DaemonFC | so they still win | Nov 06 15:12 |
| DaemonFC | *from their | Nov 06 15:12 |
| _Hicham_ | wine : Wine Is Not a windows Emulator | Nov 06 15:13 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, It would be like donating 10 PCs that you found while dumpster diving to the Goodwill or Salvation Army, then taking a $300 tax deduction for each one | Nov 06 15:13 |
| DaemonFC | tax laws make it easy to take ridiculous deductions and never get audited | Nov 06 15:13 |
| DaemonFC | so you can inflate what just about any donation is worth | Nov 06 15:14 |
| schestowitz | "By Anonymous Coward Posted Thursday 5th November 2009 01:49 GMT" | Nov 06 15:15 |
| jose_X | thanks | Nov 06 15:16 |
| jose_X | they dropped my comments | Nov 06 15:16 |
| jose_X | actually it seems the moderator went on vacation | Nov 06 15:16 |
| jose_X | notice how many comments there are around the same time and how they suddenly stop | Nov 06 15:17 |
| jose_X | that was right around the time I submitted mine.. | Nov 06 15:17 |
| jose_X | unfortunate | Nov 06 15:17 |
| jose_X | thanks, schestowitz [..I'm logging out soon] | Nov 06 15:19 |
| schestowitz | jose_X: they moderate | Nov 06 15:20 |
| schestowitz | Maybe queue | Nov 06 15:20 |
| schestowitz | it does not imply censorship yet. | Nov 06 15:20 |
| jose_X | just saying that over a day and a half ago comments were coming in frequently (one per hour) | Nov 06 15:20 |
| jose_X | and then suddenly died | Nov 06 15:20 |
| schestowitz | There's lots of stuff I ignore at the moment and no... I never linked to that article | Nov 06 15:20 |
| schestowitz | It's stupid... alarmist over wine | Nov 06 15:21 |
| schestowitz | Another strand are the attacks on 9.10 | Nov 06 15:21 |
| schestowitz | "OMG! Ubuntu has bugs" | Nov 06 15:21 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Bernie Sander: Too big to fail too big to exist! In TWO pages. http://ur1.ca/f9ku #bailout #corporatewelfare #banks | Nov 06 15:21 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Exclusive: Sanders Tackles Too Big To Fail In Two Pages .::. Size~: 243.22 KB | Nov 06 15:21 |
| jose_X | btw, i think it was on irc that i saw the link but maybe it was lt. | Nov 06 15:22 |
| *lordtoran (n=lordtora@dslb-088-078-092-186.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 06 15:22 | |
| jose_X | anyway, thanks. i just wanted to check to see if i wasn't getting a stale copy of that page | Nov 06 15:22 |
| jose_X | an Internet problem | Nov 06 15:22 |
| jose_X | all ok, thanks. | Nov 06 15:22 |
| jose_X | later... | Nov 06 15:22 |
| schestowitz | Google gets cosy w/ the commission: http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/11/05/new-googleplex-established-in-brussels | Nov 06 15:22 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: New Googleplex Established In Brussels | WebProNews .::. Size~: 31.92 KB | Nov 06 15:22 |
| schestowitz | jose_X: maybe they have lag | Nov 06 15:23 |
| jose_X | whatever.. | Nov 06 15:23 |
| schestowitz | The author is not anti-Linux | Nov 06 15:23 |
| jose_X | that's one reason why i mention this | Nov 06 15:23 |
| jose_X | the article was a little over the top in tone | Nov 06 15:24 |
| jose_X | and then the comments being updated normally just stopped being updated | Nov 06 15:24 |
| jose_X | like i said, whatever.. | Nov 06 15:24 |
| jose_X | :-) | Nov 06 15:24 |
| *jose_X has quit ("Leaving") | Nov 06 15:26 | |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlW4O3zOA4E& | Nov 06 15:28 |
| DaemonFC | Fort Hood Suspect: 'Allahu Akbar' | Nov 06 15:28 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Now I have an Android phone, I'm _very_ happy to be removing the Nokia Ovi utter _junk_ from the only windows disk I have. | Nov 06 15:29 | |
| DaemonFC | Muslims don't integrate | Nov 06 15:29 |
| DaemonFC | more proof | Nov 06 15:29 |
| DaemonFC | they figure that the rest of the people in the world should all be killed, and the only reason that hasn't happened, is because they don't have the strength to get away with it | Nov 06 15:30 |
| schestowitz | Google goes to bed with more evil Flash.. http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/11/05/google-tests-new-adsense-interface | Nov 06 15:31 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Google Tests New AdSense Interface | WebProNews .::. Size~: 33.3 KB | Nov 06 15:31 |
| *zer0c00l is now known as zer0c00l|Away | Nov 06 15:32 | |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HSuKQkO2jQ&feature=related | Nov 06 15:33 |
| DaemonFC | 'Ft. Hood Gunman Still Alive' | Nov 06 15:33 |
| DaemonFC | too bad | Nov 06 15:33 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: you generalise | Nov 06 15:33 |
| _Hicham_ | huh, the same daemon | Nov 06 15:33 |
| _Hicham_ | trolling for ever | Nov 06 15:33 |
| schestowitz | That's like usign Amish people to make broad statements | Nov 06 15:33 |
| DaemonFC | watch him get slapped on the wrist cause he's a Muslim | Nov 06 15:33 |
| DaemonFC | he'll be out in 20 years | Nov 06 15:33 |
| DaemonFC | the 12 people he murdered won't be back | Nov 06 15:33 |
| schestowitz | McVeigh killed more | Nov 06 15:34 |
| DaemonFC | so? | Nov 06 15:34 |
| _Hicham_ | so now this gets a lot of attention ? | Nov 06 15:34 |
| DaemonFC | he was just your average nutcase, he got the death penalty | Nov 06 15:34 |
| DaemonFC | If they give this "Hasan" guy any less, I'll be pissed | Nov 06 15:34 |
| _Hicham_ | what about the mass murders that happen in schools every years ? | Nov 06 15:34 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC is messy as always | Nov 06 15:35 |
| _Hicham_ | I hope that he will set his brain properly some day | Nov 06 15:35 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, Anyone can have a psychotic episode and snap | Nov 06 15:35 |
| _Hicham_ | and stop the hatred that he is filled with | Nov 06 15:36 |
| DaemonFC | Religion is a permanent psychosis | Nov 06 15:36 |
| _Hicham_ | from where did u get this hatred ? | Nov 06 15:36 |
| _Hicham_ | so what do u people to do ? | Nov 06 15:36 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, You asked why I carry a weapon | Nov 06 15:37 |
| DaemonFC | I don't want to be pinned down when some idiot goes on a shooting spree | Nov 06 15:37 |
| _Hicham_ | remove their religion just because u don't like it ? | Nov 06 15:37 |
| DaemonFC | helpless to do anything but watch | Nov 06 15:37 |
| DaemonFC | I will shoot to kill | Nov 06 15:37 |
| _Hicham_ | wow | Nov 06 15:37 |
| _Hicham_ | spreading the killing culture | Nov 06 15:37 |
| _Hicham_ | i think that weapons should be banned in the us | Nov 06 15:38 |
| DaemonFC | if someone is shooting at a crowd I'm in, they better hope they get me first, _Hicham_ | Nov 06 15:38 |
| DaemonFC | otherwise, I will kill them | Nov 06 15:38 |
| _Hicham_ | u will kill the whole crowd ? | Nov 06 15:38 |
| DaemonFC | the shooter | Nov 06 15:38 |
| DaemonFC | this Hasan character just walked right in and murdered 12 unarmed people | Nov 06 15:39 |
| _Hicham_ | what is the big deal about that ? | Nov 06 15:39 |
| DaemonFC | it was just a lucky coincidence that a civilian police officer was there to take him out | Nov 06 15:39 |
| _Hicham_ | people get murdered everyday in the US | Nov 06 15:40 |
| wallc | Daemon, are you saying that if those people had been armed they wouldn't have been shot? | Nov 06 15:40 |
| _Hicham_ | weapons out there makes killing easy | Nov 06 15:40 |
| wallc | I don't understand your reasoning. | Nov 06 15:40 |
| DaemonFC | wallc, I'm saying that maybe he could have been shot before he killed as many as he did | Nov 06 15:40 |
| DaemonFC | wallc, What if the police officers were not there? | Nov 06 15:40 |
| _Hicham_ | spreading the weapons culture is not the solution | Nov 06 15:40 |
| DaemonFC | he would have reloaded and jsut kept killing | Nov 06 15:41 |
| DaemonFC | he's a Muslim coward | Nov 06 15:41 |
| DaemonFC | all they can do is go after unarmed people or set bombs | Nov 06 15:41 |
| DaemonFC | that's why they want our weapons taken away | Nov 06 15:41 |
| _Hicham_ | who are those ? | Nov 06 15:41 |
| DaemonFC | makes it easier for them to do their thing | Nov 06 15:41 |
| *fewa sets ban on *!*i=Ryan@69.245.242.* | Nov 06 15:42 | |
| *fewa has kicked DaemonFC from #boycottnovell (take your bigotry elsewhere) | Nov 06 15:42 | |
| fewa | I'm sick of that hate | Nov 06 15:42 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/06/ceo_of_the_decade/ | Nov 06 15:42 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Apple under Jobs: from muck to mountaintop • The Register .::. Size~: 35.34 KB | Nov 06 15:42 |
| _Hicham_ | fewa : u shouldn't have kicked him | Nov 06 15:42 |
| *DaemonFC (i=Ryan1@c-69-245-242-208.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 06 15:42 | |
| _Hicham_ | fewa : we re trying to help him | Nov 06 15:43 |
| fewa | him parents said that the shooter was tired of getting picked on for being a muslim | Nov 06 15:43 |
| fewa | _Hicham_, mybe | Nov 06 15:43 |
| DaemonFC | so _Hicham_, if you were looking for dozens of people to easily gun down, would you go into a shopping mall or a police station? | Nov 06 15:43 |
| fewa | buts its a pattern | Nov 06 15:43 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: business as usual: successful criminal celebrated as "businessman" | Nov 06 15:43 |
| *fewa removes ban on *!*i=Ryan@69.245.242.* | Nov 06 15:43 | |
| DaemonFC | you don't really see many people go into a police station to gun people down | Nov 06 15:43 |
| DaemonFC | they prefer malls and colleges for a reason | Nov 06 15:44 |
| fewa | http://www.democracynow.org/2009/11/6/in_worst_ever_shooting_of_its | Nov 06 15:44 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: In Worst-Ever Shooting of Its Kind, 13 Dead, 30 Wounded at Ft. Hood Military Base; Suspect Had Reportedly Complained of Anti-Muslim Bias .::. Size~: 31.11 KB | Nov 06 15:44 |
| fewa | he tried to leave the military | Nov 06 15:44 |
| DaemonFC | fewa, So why did he have to murder people that had nothing to do with it? | Nov 06 15:44 |
| *wallc has quit ("Page closed") | Nov 06 15:44 | |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : why would i kill people ? | Nov 06 15:44 |
| DaemonFC | Why couldn't he have just shot himself? | Nov 06 15:44 |
| schestowitz | There's this incident in the US where a Manson fan shot many people at a black school and some idiotiotic diplomat blamed hot-hip cause he didn't know the shooter was white | Nov 06 15:45 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : he is mentally ill | Nov 06 15:45 |
| schestowitz | Great example of prejudice | Nov 06 15:45 |
| fewa | DaemonFC, have you seen "Bowling for Columbine"? | Nov 06 15:45 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: Muslims are more likely to shoot cause there's like 3 times of them more than US citizens | Nov 06 15:45 |
| DaemonFC | if he felt he had to die, why didn't he just plug himself instead of killing 12 people with families? People who had nothing to do with him | Nov 06 15:45 |
| schestowitz | Chinese too | Nov 06 15:45 |
| schestowitz | China's massacre of 60 million dissidents | Nov 06 15:45 |
| schestowitz | 10 Holocausts | Nov 06 15:45 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, So where are all the Chinese people gunning people down here? | Nov 06 15:45 |
| fewa | you should see Bowling for Columbine DaemonFC | Nov 06 15:46 |
| _Hicham_ | this DaemonFC is really dumb | Nov 06 15:46 |
| DaemonFC | Is the Chinese restaurant just a front for arms dealing? | Nov 06 15:46 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Nov 06 15:46 |
| _Hicham_ | how can a mentally ill person use his mind ? | Nov 06 15:46 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : why child molesters don't go to hookers ? | Nov 06 15:46 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: | Nov 06 15:46 |
| schestowitz | !google korea shooter school | Nov 06 15:46 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Virginia Tech massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre | Nov 06 15:46 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Seung-Hui Cho - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seung-Hui_Cho | Nov 06 15:46 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Korean Archery | http://www.tournamentarchery.com/Korean%2520Archery.htm | Nov 06 15:46 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - US school shooter was 23-year-old South Korean (1st Lead ... | http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/usa/news/article_1292650.php/US_school_shooter_was_23-year-old_South_Korean_1st_Lead | Nov 06 15:46 |
| DaemonFC | OK, there's one | Nov 06 15:47 |
| fewa | !google columbine school shooting | Nov 06 15:47 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Columbine High School massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_High_School_massacre | Nov 06 15:47 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - ~(@)~ 4-20-99 a Columbine site ~(@)~ All about the Columbine High ... | http://acolumbinesite.com/ | Nov 06 15:47 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - 10 years later, the real story behind Columbine - USATODAY.com | http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-04-13-columbine-myths_N.htm | Nov 06 15:47 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - The Columbine School Shootings - The Denver Post | http://www.denverpost.com/columbine | Nov 06 15:47 |
| DaemonFC | I don't see Chinese people or Mexicans hijacking planes | Nov 06 15:47 |
| DaemonFC | flying them into buildings | Nov 06 15:47 |
| fewa | !google finland school shooting | Nov 06 15:47 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Finland School Shooting News - Media Monitoring Service by EIN News | http://www.einnews.com/finland/newsfeed-finland-school-shooting | Nov 06 15:47 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Finland school shooting: Gunman planned massacre for six years ... | http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/finland/3071235/Finland-school-shooting-Gunman-planned-massacre-for-six-years.html | Nov 06 15:47 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Gunman Kills 10 in Attack at a School in Finland - NYTimes.com | http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/24/world/europe/24finland.html | Nov 06 15:47 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Jokela school shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jokela_school_shooting | Nov 06 15:47 |
| _Hicham_ | !google DaemonFC most dumb person in the world | Nov 06 15:47 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 23rd, 2009 | http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/irc-log-23092009.html | Nov 06 15:47 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 22nd, 2009 | http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/irc-log-22082009.html | Nov 06 15:47 |
| schestowitz | What was that 70s incident at the university? | Nov 06 15:47 |
| DaemonFC | 90% of the time when there's a shooting or something blows up, it was a Muslim | Nov 06 15:47 |
| DaemonFC | it's not even surprising anymore | Nov 06 15:47 |
| schestowitz | Very famous for the picture... | Nov 06 15:48 |
| fewa | !google drone attacks pakistan | Nov 06 15:48 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - President Obama 'orders Pakistan drone attacks' - Times Online | http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article5575883.ece | Nov 06 15:48 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Clinton faces Pakistani ire at drone attacks - Pakistan - msnbc.com | http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33548966/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/ | Nov 06 15:48 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - BBC NEWS | South Asia | Deadly missiles strike Pakistan | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7847423.stm | Nov 06 15:48 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - U.S. Plans New Drone Attacks in Pakistan - WSJ.com | http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123803414843244161.html | Nov 06 15:48 |
| _Hicham_ | 90% ? | Nov 06 15:48 |
| _Hicham_ | huh | Nov 06 15:48 |
| _Hicham_ | what a huge percentage ... | Nov 06 15:48 |
| fewa | !google israel invades jordan | Nov 06 15:48 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - NewsBiscuit :: Israel Plan to Invade Jordan :: Submissions | http://beta.newsbiscuit.com/board/72/77/9//Israel-Plan-to-Invade-Jordan.html | Nov 06 15:48 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Will Jordan eventually become Palestine? - Page 13 - Military Photos | http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php%3Fp%3D4532218 | Nov 06 15:48 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Informed Comment: Israel invades Gaza | http://www.juancole.com/2009/01/israel-invades-gaza.html | Nov 06 15:48 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Crossfire War - Israel Invades Ramallah - West Bank Capital | http://newsblaze.com/story/20070104135733payn.nb/topstory.html | Nov 06 15:48 |
| schestowitz | fewa: not murder /sarcasm | Nov 06 15:48 |
| schestowitz | it's a drone | Nov 06 15:48 |
| schestowitz | Maybe it was "made in CHina" | Nov 06 15:48 |
| _Hicham_ | !google DaemonFC needs a shrink | Nov 06 15:48 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 23rd, 2009 | http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/irc-log-23092009.html | Nov 06 15:48 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 6th, 2009 | http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/irc-log-06092009.html | Nov 06 15:48 |
| schestowitz | THe shooter was not American, it was a drone | Nov 06 15:48 |
| fewa | !google israel invasion of golan hights | Nov 06 15:48 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - The Golan Heights | http://www.jawlan.org/english/golanheights.htm | Nov 06 15:48 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Israeli-occupied territories - The Golan Heights | http://www.experiencefestival.com/israeli-occupied_territories_-_the_golan_heights | Nov 06 15:48 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War | Nov 06 15:48 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Golan Heights | http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts%2BAbout%2BIsrael/Israel%2Bin%2BMaps/Golan%2BHeights.htm | Nov 06 15:48 |
| DaemonFC | So? Kick their asses | Nov 06 15:48 |
| DaemonFC | this is a problem why? | Nov 06 15:49 |
| _Hicham_ | so now it is not his problem | Nov 06 15:49 |
| DaemonFC | "What goes around comes around" | Nov 06 15:49 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings | Nov 06 15:49 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Kent State shootings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 197.36 KB | Nov 06 15:49 |
| schestowitz | Found it | Nov 06 15:49 |
| DaemonFC | translate that into Arabic and telly our buddies that's why | Nov 06 15:49 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: not muslim !!! 11 | Nov 06 15:49 |
| DaemonFC | *tell your | Nov 06 15:49 |
| fewa | !google remote area medical united states | Nov 06 15:49 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Remote Area Medical | http://www.ramusa.org/ | Nov 06 15:49 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Remote Area Medical sets up temporary clinic in Inglewood | 89.3 KPCC | http://www.scpr.org/news/2009/08/11/remote-area-medical-sets-temporary-clinic-inside-i/ | Nov 06 15:49 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Remote Area Medical - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Area_Medical | Nov 06 15:49 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Remote Area Medical to the Rescue in LA | KPBS.org | http://www.kpbs.org/news/2009/aug/12/remote-area-medical-rescue-la/ | Nov 06 15:49 |
| _Hicham_ | the US keep humiliating people elsewhere, and doesn't expect anything inside , great | Nov 06 15:49 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : u will die from hatred | Nov 06 15:50 |
| DaemonFC | if he wants to go see Allah, let's introduce him | Nov 06 15:50 |
| DaemonFC | fry the bastard | Nov 06 15:50 |
| _Hicham_ | excessive hatred is not good for ur health | Nov 06 15:51 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: he had seizures | Nov 06 15:51 |
| schestowitz | From high blood pressure | Nov 06 15:51 |
| schestowitz | Hatred can do that | Nov 06 15:51 |
| fewa | and he refuses to help himself | Nov 06 15:51 |
| fewa | he wont even eat oatmeal | Nov 06 15:51 |
| fewa | oatmeal! | Nov 06 15:51 |
| DaemonFC | I hate oatmeal | Nov 06 15:51 |
| *schestowitz makes oatmeal. brb | Nov 06 15:51 | |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : try to calm down, this won't do u any good | Nov 06 15:51 |
| *jono (n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 06 15:52 | |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, I'll probably vote for one of Obama's Primary contenders | Nov 06 15:52 |
| _Hicham_ | u don't like Obama ? | Nov 06 15:53 |
| *schestowitz returns from kitchenette with bowl of wholegrain brand flakes | Nov 06 15:53 | |
| DaemonFC | I'm really not liking a lot of what I'm seeing | Nov 06 15:53 |
| DaemonFC | DOJ packed with RIAA lawyers, trying to cozy us up to every snake out there... | Nov 06 15:53 |
| fewa | !google mccain bombs vietnam murder | Nov 06 15:53 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - True or false: McCain is not a hero for dropping bombs on innocent ... | http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index%3Fqid%3D20081024083536AAmbJ1y | Nov 06 15:53 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - RW ONLINE:Vietnam Legacy: Heroes and Criminals | http://revcom.us/a/v21/1040-049/1047/vietnam.htm | Nov 06 15:53 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - McCain, the torturer (warning, graphic, if iconic, picture from ... | http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php%3Faz%3Dview_all%26address%3D389x2702501 | Nov 06 15:53 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Palling around with McCain | SocialistWorker.org | http://socialistworker.org/2008/10/16/palling-around-with-mccain | Nov 06 15:53 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: maybe you should join those birthers | Nov 06 15:53 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, I think they pretty much destroyed their case with their courtroom antics | Nov 06 15:54 |
| schestowitz | !google mcccain bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb iran | Nov 06 15:54 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - YouTube - Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Do-zoPgv_nYg | Nov 06 15:54 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - YouTube - MoveOn.org ad against McCain: "Bomb Iran" song | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DU39zae4IxUA | Nov 06 15:54 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - The Raw Story | Unplugged McCain sings 'bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb ... | http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/McCain_unplugged_Bomb_bomb_bomb_bomb_0419.html | Nov 06 15:54 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Jesting, McCain Sings: 'Bomb, Bomb, Bomb' Iran : NPR | http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php%3FstoryId%3D9688222 | Nov 06 15:54 |
| _Hicham_ | huh, Bombing as always | Nov 06 15:54 |
| fewa | !google liberman iran daily show | Nov 06 15:54 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Vimeo: Daily Show Goes to Iran (video) - World | http://beltwayblips.dailyradar.com/story/vimeo-daily-show-goes-to-iran-video/ | Nov 06 15:54 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Collective Nutroots Wisdom: Lieberman Blocking Public Option So ... | http://www.mererhetoric.com/archives/11275928.html | Nov 06 15:54 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - TPMtv: Lieberman's Bomb Iran Bill Part 1 Video | http://vodpod.com/watch/259885-tpmtv-liebermans-bomb-iran-bill-part-1 | Nov 06 15:54 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Think Progress » Lieberman: Airstrikes in Iran are 'a distinct ... | http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/12/lieberman-airstrikes-in-iran-are-a-distinct-possibility/ | Nov 06 15:54 |
| _Hicham_ | the US will bomb the whole world | Nov 06 15:54 |
| _Hicham_ | they are getting crazy | Nov 06 15:54 |
| DaemonFC | oh well, it was a female cop that shot him | Nov 06 15:54 |
| DaemonFC | that has to be humiliating for a Muslim | Nov 06 15:55 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: maybe raw material will run soon | Nov 06 15:55 |
| schestowitz | They wasted a lot in Cambodia | Nov 06 15:55 |
| DaemonFC | Why would they hospitalize him? | Nov 06 15:55 |
| schestowitz | /s/run/run 0ut/ | Nov 06 15:55 |
| DaemonFC | I'd just let him bleed out on the ground | Nov 06 15:55 |
| DaemonFC | "Nothing we could do, we tried" | Nov 06 15:55 |
| schestowitz | !google putin totally out of control | Nov 06 15:55 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - YouTube - Military Industrial Complex Totally Out of Control! | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DLkdIKAACKpI | Nov 06 15:55 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Pakistan's situation is totally out of control; hit the books please | http://www.examiner.com/x-2086-NY-Foreign-Policy-Examiner~y2009m2d22-Pakistans-situation-is-totally-out-of-control-hit-the-books-please | Nov 06 15:55 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Russia's Putin says US debt out of control: Associated Press ... | http://news.moneycentral.com/provider/providerarticle.aspx%3Ffeed%3DAP%26date%3D20090918%26id%3D10278346 | Nov 06 15:55 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Out Of Control Children | LIVESTRONG.COM | http://www.livestrong.com/out-of-control-children/ | Nov 06 15:55 |
| _Hicham_ | what a vision | Nov 06 15:56 |
| _Hicham_ | let him die ? | Nov 06 15:56 |
| DaemonFC | I would have | Nov 06 15:56 |
| _Hicham_ | great, is that what u call freedom ? | Nov 06 15:56 |
| _Hicham_ | and healthcare ? | Nov 06 15:56 |
| _Hicham_ | and welfare ? | Nov 06 15:56 |
| _Hicham_ | the US is just a FuckWare | Nov 06 15:56 |
| schestowitz | for whom? | Nov 06 15:56 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: watch language | Nov 06 15:56 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, Why help a murderer? | Nov 06 15:56 |
| schestowitz | Who? | Nov 06 15:57 |
| DaemonFC | so our criminal "justice" system can just let him off with a 10-20 year sentence | Nov 06 15:57 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : because he is still human | Nov 06 15:57 |
| DaemonFC | on some technicality | Nov 06 15:57 |
| DaemonFC | or so we can pay to incarcerate him for the rest of his life | Nov 06 15:57 |
| _Hicham_ | he must go through a fair trial | Nov 06 15:57 |
| schestowitz | That's the whole "Death sentence" debate | Nov 06 15:58 |
| DaemonFC | unfortunately | Nov 06 15:58 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, I hope they get some jurors that issue a death sentence | Nov 06 15:58 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : depends on the state | Nov 06 15:58 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, Nope | Nov 06 15:58 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/06/explosive_floridian/ | Nov 06 15:58 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Florida flasher deploys 'explosive diarrhoea' defence • The Register .::. Size~: 24.25 KB | Nov 06 15:58 |
| DaemonFC | FEDERAL crime means that death sentence is an option | Nov 06 15:58 |
| _Hicham_ | Death Sentence is still existing in 38 states | Nov 06 15:58 |
| fewa | guilty until prooven deal | Nov 06 15:59 |
| DaemonFC | doesn't matter what state he was in | Nov 06 15:59 |
| DaemonFC | federal crime means the death sentence is open | Nov 06 15:59 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : u r judging him based on what ? | Nov 06 15:59 |
| _Hicham_ | do u know why he choose that place to kill people ? | Nov 06 15:59 |
| DaemonFC | cause his religion told him to | Nov 06 15:59 |
| DaemonFC | he was probably brainwashed | Nov 06 15:59 |
| _Hicham_ | mass murders usually show that there is something wrong somewhere | Nov 06 16:00 |
| _Hicham_ | stop this crap, and use ur mind | Nov 06 16:00 |
| _Hicham_ | there is no such thing | Nov 06 16:00 |
| fewa | The united States subsidizes the selling of weapons to our enemies | Nov 06 16:00 |
| DaemonFC | in any event, there's nothing worth saving | Nov 06 16:00 |
| fewa | Our ememies! | Nov 06 16:00 |
| _Hicham_ | those things just exist in Fox news | Nov 06 16:00 |
| _Hicham_ | u don't wanna understand | Nov 06 16:00 |
| _Hicham_ | u r blinded | Nov 06 16:00 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: there are crazies in many factions | Nov 06 16:00 |
| schestowitz | It's not the norm | Nov 06 16:00 |
| schestowitz | fewa: not enemies, clients | Nov 06 16:00 |
| schestowitz | enemies to commerce != enemies to human rights | Nov 06 16:01 |
| schestowitz | It's abut beating targets in the next quarter | Nov 06 16:01 |
| fewa | the american taxpayer is spending money to subsidize the selling of weapons to foreign nations | Nov 06 16:01 |
| fewa | its atrocious | Nov 06 16:01 |
| _Hicham_ | and helping Israel | Nov 06 16:02 |
| fewa | not just Israel, there we give them the weapons | Nov 06 16:02 |
| schestowitz | OK, this is weird. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/06/live_birth/ | Nov 06 16:02 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: US woman to drop sprog live on internet • The Register .::. Size~: 24.75 KB | Nov 06 16:02 |
| schestowitz | Some people have no shame. | Nov 06 16:03 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : who actually have it ? | Nov 06 16:04 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC ? | Nov 06 16:04 |
| DaemonFC | yes? | Nov 06 16:04 |
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| schestowitz | _Hicham_: DaemonFC's dad had a career in a weapons company | Nov 06 16:05 |
| _Hicham_ | that is why he had a weapon as a gift | Nov 06 16:05 |
| fewa | mmm oatmeal | Nov 06 16:05 |
| fewa | _Hicham_, same with the shooters at Columbine | Nov 06 16:05 |
| schestowitz | He's also sensitive when the subject of Caterpillar is brought up, so fair enough | Nov 06 16:06 |
| schestowitz | Weapons industry has no real purpose | Nov 06 16:06 |
| schestowitz | That's why mutual agreements were made at end of Cold War | Nov 06 16:06 |
| schestowitz | People realised a better 'industry' is one of pen, paper, and visits on jet | Nov 06 16:07 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, Tell that to Georgia | Nov 06 16:07 |
| _Hicham_ | weapons industry will cease at certain point | Nov 06 16:07 |
| DaemonFC | take all the weapons from Europe and watch Russia just sit where they are | Nov 06 16:07 |
| DaemonFC | that'll happen | Nov 06 16:07 |
| schestowitz | Georgia could not resist with weapons | Nov 06 16:07 |
| schestowitz | The Russians are too powerful | Nov 06 16:07 |
| _Hicham_ | when the whole world will have nuclear weapons | Nov 06 16:07 |
| schestowitz | Had Georgisa resisted, maybe more would be killed on both sides | Nov 06 16:07 |
| _Hicham_ | everything will be on par | Nov 06 16:08 |
| fewa | schestowitz, mutual agreements brought about world war 2 | Nov 06 16:08 |
| fewa | pacts | Nov 06 16:08 |
| DaemonFC | fewa, British trying to placate the Nazis | Nov 06 16:08 |
| fewa | or at least ww1 | Nov 06 16:08 |
| DaemonFC | saying "You can have Poland if you don't bother us" | Nov 06 16:08 |
| schestowitz | WW1 killed so many people and no-one knows why.. cause of assassination of some heir of the Austro-Hungarian axis | Nov 06 16:08 |
| DaemonFC | ":We won't stop you" | Nov 06 16:08 |
| fewa | DaemonFC, much more complicated that that | Nov 06 16:08 |
| fewa | DaemonFC, there were massive investments of the rich into Nazi regime | Nov 06 16:08 |
| schestowitz | It wasn't Poland | Nov 06 16:09 |
| fewa | schestowitz, that of course is a cover | Nov 06 16:09 |
| DaemonFC | then the British also gave material aide and comfort to the Soviets | Nov 06 16:09 |
| schestowitz | I think it was Czechoslovakia | Nov 06 16:09 |
| DaemonFC | in the form of advanced jet engines | Nov 06 16:09 |
| DaemonFC | it's no wonder their empire fell apart | Nov 06 16:10 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Nov 06 16:10 |
| schestowitz | How did we end up in this subject?? .. I run for a kid's charity in 2 hours | Nov 06 16:10 |
| DaemonFC | well, aside from the fact that nobody wanted them there | Nov 06 16:10 |
| schestowitz | Neville Chamberlain Appeasement and Czechoslovakia http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_LFTYRayzY | Nov 06 16:11 |
| DaemonFC | they did succeed in spreading white people all over the place though | Nov 06 16:12 |
| DaemonFC | that's probably the most lasting thing they did | Nov 06 16:12 |
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| *Disconnected (Remote host closed socket). | Nov 06 16:12 | |
| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 6 16:12:47 2009 | ||
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 6 16:13:29 2009 | ||
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell | Nov 06 16:13 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged] | Register with nickserv to speak http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup | Nov 06 16:13 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Thu Nov 5 14:17:55 2009 | Nov 06 16:13 | |
| -ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel | Nov 06 16:13 | |
| schestowitz | zelazny.freenode.net i fell | Nov 06 16:13 |
| fewa | quick restart | Nov 06 16:14 |
| *zer0c00l|Away is now known as zer0c00l | Nov 06 16:14 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/Does-Wine-Make-Linux-Too-Loose-68566.html?wlc=1257523716 | Nov 06 16:15 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Linux News: Community: Does Wine Make Linux Too Loose? .::. Size~: 59.6 KB | Nov 06 16:15 |
| schestowitz | flaws vector | Nov 06 16:16 |
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| schestowitz | _Hicham_: you should use MAndriva. http://blog.mandriva.com/2009/11/04/mandriva-linux-2010-is-out/ | Nov 06 16:17 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: The Official Mandriva Blog » Blog Archive » Mandriva Linux 2010 is out! .::. Size~: 34.91 KB | Nov 06 16:17 |
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| schestowitz | It's French. Morocco likes France, no? Or opposite? | Nov 06 16:17 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : i had several issues with it | Nov 06 16:18 |
| schestowitz | Algeria maybe not so much... | Nov 06 16:18 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: that OpenSUSE didn't? | Nov 06 16:18 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : openSUSE do have its issues | Nov 06 16:18 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : my favorite for the moment is Fedora | Nov 06 16:19 |
| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/news?hl=en-GB&q=Hadoop.&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8 | Nov 06 16:19 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Hadoop. - Google News .::. Size~: 56.18 KB | Nov 06 16:19 |
| schestowitz | http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9140343/Linux_s_share_of_netbooks_surging_not_sagging_says_analyst | Nov 06 16:20 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Linux's share of netbooks surging, not sagging, says analyst .::. Size~: 137.96 KB | Nov 06 16:20 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: Linux needs YOU. http://www.tech-no-media.com/2009/11/desktop-linux-needs-salesmen.html | Nov 06 16:21 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Tech-no-media: Desktop Linux needs salesmen! .::. Size~: 113.53 KB | Nov 06 16:21 |
| _Hicham_ | a lot of distros haven't had the balls to ship Xorg version 1.7.0 | Nov 06 16:21 |
| schestowitz | Fedora is being slammed by many for being "hard" | Nov 06 16:21 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: it's very new | Nov 06 16:21 |
| DaemonFC | "More than a fifth of people upgrading to Ubuntu 9.10 have reported issues they can't fix, according to an Ubuntuforums.org poll," The Register reported. "Only around 10 per cent of those upgrading or installing reported a completely flawless experience." | Nov 06 16:22 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : it is not hard at all | Nov 06 16:22 |
| _Hicham_ | these are stereotypes | Nov 06 16:22 |
| DaemonFC | heh | Nov 06 16:22 |
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| _Hicham_ | even Arch or Gentoo do not ship newer packages as fedora does | Nov 06 16:22 |
| _Hicham_ | even though they have rolling release cycle | Nov 06 16:22 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More on secret copyright treaty: your kids could go to jail for noncommercial music sharing http://ping.fm/wCNHc | Nov 06 16:23 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: More on secret copyright treaty: your kids could go to jail for noncommercial music sharing - Boing Boing .::. Size~: 167.92 KB | Nov 06 16:23 |
| _Hicham_ | now that Xorg 1.7.0 have been released, people have to wait six months before they can use it | Nov 06 16:23 |
| _Hicham_ | like when firefox 3.5.4 was released, people had to wait 6 months before it have been integrated in distros | Nov 06 16:24 |
| _Hicham_ | these are all bad habits | Nov 06 16:24 |
| _Hicham_ | we need more synchronization with upstream projects | Nov 06 16:25 |
| _Hicham_ | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/13/FeatureList | Nov 06 16:27 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Releases/13/FeatureList - FedoraProject .::. Size~: 15.05 KB | Nov 06 16:27 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @ThistleWeb See http://bit.ly/4dnMLN | Nov 06 16:28 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] #Secret #copyright treaty: ur kids could go to jail for noncommercial music sharing http://ur1.ca/f9pc #acta #Obama promise of transparency? | Nov 06 16:28 | |
| schestowitz | "Scott R. Burgess, 45, of Jasper, Indiana, and Walter D. Puckett, 39, of Williamstown, Kentucky, both worked as managers for Indiana-based Stens Corporation until taking jobs with a competing company in Ohio, according to an indictment filed in federal court." | Nov 06 16:29 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/05/computer_intrusion_charges_filed/ | Nov 06 16:29 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Men allegedly broke into computers of former employer • The Register .::. Size~: 26.66 KB | Nov 06 16:29 |
| schestowitz | Those people in India are out of order | Nov 06 16:29 |
| schestowitz | *Indiana | Nov 06 16:29 |
| schestowitz | ;-) | Nov 06 16:29 |
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| schestowitz | Justice at work: http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/nov2009/db2009112_606442.htm | Nov 06 16:32 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: New York Businesses Get H1N1 Vaccine - BusinessWeek .::. Size~: 55.43 KB | Nov 06 16:32 |
| schestowitz | "children and women first!!" | Nov 06 16:32 |
| schestowitz | Haha. | Nov 06 16:32 |
| schestowitz | "Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, and other large city employers have started receiving small quantities of swine flu vaccine for high-risk employees" | Nov 06 16:32 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: Why do some people in here have voice, but the others nope? | Nov 06 16:32 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowtiz : does swine flu exist ? | Nov 06 16:32 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: no reason | Nov 06 16:32 |
| schestowitz | For a moment of time there was a troll here | Nov 06 16:33 |
| schestowitz | So we had to give voice to all except the troll | Nov 06 16:33 |
| sebsebseb | oh ok | Nov 06 16:33 |
| schestowitz | It's just one troll: mutex | Nov 06 16:33 |
| schestowitz | He uses lots of name to ban-evade; we don't usually ban anyone | Nov 06 16:33 |
| sebsebseb | ok | Nov 06 16:34 |
| schestowitz | We banned DaemonFC several times for racial slurs | Nov 06 16:34 |
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| schestowitz | _Hicham_: don't know what to believe anymore | Nov 06 16:34 |
| schestowitz | "Exists, but exaggerated" I reckon | Nov 06 16:35 |
| schestowitz | It has a good name, though. Will SELL well.... lots of $$$ for 'medical' folks | Nov 06 16:35 |
| _Hicham_ | a school in here shuts down because of swine flu | Nov 06 16:35 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, ikonia | Nov 06 16:38 |
| schestowitz | Been quiet here recently.. | Nov 06 16:38 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: sounds like fun | Nov 06 16:38 |
| schestowitz | More studying can be done from home | Nov 06 16:38 |
| _Hicham_ | are u studying right now ? | Nov 06 16:39 |
| schestowitz | In Denmark, in some places, people can now use PC and Internet in the exams | Nov 06 16:39 |
| schestowitz | Real-world test | Nov 06 16:39 |
| _Hicham_ | great | Nov 06 16:39 |
| schestowitz | Check people's ability to use tools, not to memorise | Nov 06 16:39 |
| schestowitz | About time! | Nov 06 16:39 |
| _Hicham_ | sadly here we can't | Nov 06 16:39 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: no, not studying | Nov 06 16:39 |
| schestowitz | I did my last exam at 21 | Nov 06 16:39 |
| _Hicham_ | studies are still about memorizing | Nov 06 16:39 |
| schestowitz | It's weird to think about it. | Nov 06 16:40 |
| _Hicham_ | who memorizes the most is the best student | Nov 06 16:40 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: yeah, well... not permanently | Nov 06 16:40 |
| _Hicham_ | and it is true to some extent | Nov 06 16:40 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: or wastes most time/brain space | Nov 06 16:40 |
| _Hicham_ | memory plays a vital role | Nov 06 16:40 |
| schestowitz | Don't watch TV, don't speak, just become a book worm, ace exams | Nov 06 16:40 |
| schestowitz | Basically, be indocrinated with school work | Nov 06 16:40 |
| _Hicham_ | it is like having programs in RAM vs HDisk | Nov 06 16:40 |
| schestowitz | In exchange for rewards | Nov 06 16:40 |
| _Hicham_ | programs preload in RAM run faster | Nov 06 16:41 |
| _Hicham_ | that is how things go also in our head | Nov 06 16:41 |
| schestowitz | It's an incentives system for the more complaint | Nov 06 16:41 |
| _Hicham_ | if u already have the info in ur head, u won't lose much time using it | Nov 06 16:41 |
| schestowitz | !google openmoko wikipedia device | Nov 06 16:41 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Openmoko - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko | Nov 06 16:41 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Openmoko WikiReader: Portable Wikipedia in Your Pocket - OLPC News | http://www.olpcnews.com/content/education/wikireader_portable_wikipedia.html | Nov 06 16:41 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Openmoko Launches Portable Wikipedia Device | http://www.shoppingblog.com/blog/1013099 | Nov 06 16:41 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Openmoko intros pocketable WikiReader device | Electronista | http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/10/13/wikireader.has.more.than.3m.wikipedia.entries/ | Nov 06 16:41 |
| schestowitz | That's all you need | Nov 06 16:41 |
| schestowitz | +brain | Nov 06 16:41 |
| _Hicham_ | the brain is the most essential part | Nov 06 16:42 |
| schestowitz | Free, compact, companion to one's neurons | Nov 06 16:42 |
| _Hicham_ | eainstein was against memorizing | Nov 06 16:42 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: yes, but it has aides | Nov 06 16:42 |
| _Hicham_ | he hated memorizing from the bottom of his heart | Nov 06 16:42 |
| schestowitz | The inner parts are used for basic skills | Nov 06 16:42 |
| schestowitz | Reptilian things like instincts | Nov 06 16:42 |
| _Hicham_ | reasoning | Nov 06 16:42 |
| schestowitz | The higher faculties are further outwards | Nov 06 16:42 |
| _Hicham_ | reasoning is the mysterious things that couldn't be understood | Nov 06 16:43 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: yes, he says he doesn't need to know what he can look up | Nov 06 16:43 |
| schestowitz | He didn't know his phone number, AFAIK | Nov 06 16:43 |
| schestowitz | TBH, I don't know my phone # either. I have it on my palm PDA | Nov 06 16:43 |
| _Hicham_ | they have found that einstein was having a higher number of certain cells in his brain | Nov 06 16:43 |
| _Hicham_ | i forgot the name of those cells | Nov 06 16:43 |
| schestowitz | white matter? | Nov 06 16:44 |
| _Hicham_ | no | Nov 06 16:44 |
| _Hicham_ | something other than u know | Nov 06 16:44 |
| schestowitz | Cells? Actual cell name? | Nov 06 16:44 |
| schestowitz | Cell Blades :-) | Nov 06 16:44 |
| _Hicham_ | i will find the documentary and tell u after | Nov 06 16:44 |
| schestowitz | PPC kickass | Nov 06 16:44 |
| _Hicham_ | ? | Nov 06 16:46 |
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| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : chromium browser is improving really fast | Nov 06 16:47 |
| _Hicham_ | extensions are also working like a charm | Nov 06 16:47 |
| schestowitz | Just came across: "Let me control the money of a nation and I care not who makes its laws." --Meyer Rothschild | Nov 06 16:48 |
| fewa | _Hicham_, wut, all the extentions are google's | Nov 06 16:50 |
| fewa | +greasemonkey | Nov 06 16:50 |
| fewa | thats not much | Nov 06 16:50 |
| _Hicham_ | fewa : I have flashblock, adblock, and gmail checker | Nov 06 16:50 |
| _Hicham_ | fairly enough for me | Nov 06 16:50 |
| fewa | does it support easylist/easyelement? | Nov 06 16:50 |
| _Hicham_ | I don't know | Nov 06 16:51 |
| _Hicham_ | what is that ? | Nov 06 16:51 |
| fewa | the main adblockplus subscriptions | Nov 06 16:51 |
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| _Hicham_ | fewa : yes | Nov 06 16:51 |
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| fewa | its a centralized system | Nov 06 16:53 |
| fewa | doesn't support subscriptions | Nov 06 16:53 |
| _Hicham_ | fewa : what are u talking about ? | Nov 06 16:54 |
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| fewa | http://adsweep.org/ | Nov 06 16:54 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: AdSweep - An ad blocker for your favorite web browser (like Adblock) .::. Size~: 14.32 KB | Nov 06 16:54 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.theindychannel.com/money/21540062/detail.html | Nov 06 16:54 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Governor Plans Cuts In Face Of Awful Revenue Picture - Money News Story - WRTV Indianapolis .::. Size~: 53.19 KB | Nov 06 16:54 |
| fewa | is there a better extention? | Nov 06 16:54 |
| _Hicham_ | yes | Nov 06 16:54 |
| DaemonFC | the governor screws over the workers and the poor again | Nov 06 16:54 |
| DaemonFC | nevermind all the crooked no bid state contracts with his former associates | Nov 06 16:55 |
| _Hicham_ | fewa : adblock+ | Nov 06 16:55 |
| fewa | really? | Nov 06 16:55 |
| _Hicham_ | fewa : http://www.chromeextensions.org/appearance-functioning/adblock/ | Nov 06 16:55 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: AdBlock+ « Google Chrome Extensions .::. Size~: 70.8 KB | Nov 06 16:55 |
| fewa | thats ripping off Vladimir Patent's name | Nov 06 16:56 |
| _Hicham_ | fewa : if u need gmail checker, the official one doesn't work on Linux | Nov 06 16:56 |
| _Hicham_ | some API problem, I posted a quick fix | Nov 06 16:56 |
| fewa | no, i dont keep my email on a internet companies server | Nov 06 16:56 |
| fewa | no thanks | Nov 06 16:57 |
| _Hicham_ | fewa : do u use Chromium ? | Nov 06 16:57 |
| fewa | for local sites | Nov 06 16:58 |
| _Hicham_ | fewa : here is the preference list http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9625/screenshotos.png | Nov 06 16:58 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/png type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 06 16:58 |
| fewa | its not installing on 4.something | Nov 06 16:58 |
| fewa | ie trunk | Nov 06 16:59 |
| DaemonFC | A day in the life of Indiana governor Mitch Daniels (R) | Nov 06 16:59 |
| _Hicham_ | do u have the latest dev version ? | Nov 06 16:59 |
| fewa | yes | Nov 06 16:59 |
| DaemonFC | 1. Hide under desk | Nov 06 16:59 |
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| DaemonFC | 2. Come out and slash education, poverty assistance, and state workers hours and pay. | Nov 06 16:59 |
| _Hicham_ | did u install from the link i gave u ? | Nov 06 16:59 |
| DaemonFC | 3. Hide under desk | Nov 06 16:59 |
| fewa | _Hicham_, yes | Nov 06 17:00 |
| _Hicham_ | fewa : plz check : chrome://extensions | Nov 06 17:00 |
| fewa | I am | Nov 06 17:00 |
| _Hicham_ | it didn't install ? | Nov 06 17:00 |
| fewa | correct | Nov 06 17:00 |
| _Hicham_ | did it install or no ? | Nov 06 17:00 |
| fewa | it installed, and then its not installed | Nov 06 17:00 |
| fewa | anyways chromium is useless for the open internet | Nov 06 17:02 |
| fewa | IMHO | Nov 06 17:02 |
| schestowitz | chromium is a compromise | Nov 06 17:03 |
| schestowitz | Two-tier system | Nov 06 17:03 |
| fewa | other people commenting are seeing it as well | Nov 06 17:03 |
| schestowitz | Like Android, which is partly proprietary | Nov 06 17:03 |
| schestowitz | Support Mozilla | Nov 06 17:03 |
| fewa | same prob | Nov 06 17:03 |
| fewa | yeah I support mozilla | Nov 06 17:03 |
| fewa | still greatest browser | Nov 06 17:03 |
| _Hicham_ | installed and not installed ? | Nov 06 17:04 |
| _Hicham_ | how is that ? | Nov 06 17:04 |
| fewa | _Hicham_, look at comments | Nov 06 17:04 |
| DaemonFC | Unemployment is 10.2% | Nov 06 17:06 |
| DaemonFC | I can just wait to see what happens when it gets to 33% | Nov 06 17:07 |
| fewa | DaemonFC, its much higher than 10.2% | Nov 06 17:07 |
| fewa | thats just the official figure | Nov 06 17:07 |
| fewa | its more like 15% or 20% | Nov 06 17:07 |
| DaemonFC | Obama comes out and assures us that 2 out of 3 people still have jobs | Nov 06 17:07 |
| DaemonFC | "And that ain't bad" | Nov 06 17:07 |
| _Hicham_ | fewa : what version of chromium do u have ? | Nov 06 17:07 |
| ThistleWeb | I'm guessing that the ratio is 3 out of 3 for people close to politicians | Nov 06 17:07 |
| fewa | http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/09/17/sen_sanders_unemployment_rate_at_17.html | Nov 06 17:07 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: RealClearPolitics - Video - Sen. Sanders: Unemployment Rate At 17% .::. Size~: 33.57 KB | Nov 06 17:07 |
| fewa | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0cf5If3cNg | Nov 06 17:08 |
| fewa | Senator Sanders Unfiltered: Return to the Gilded Age | Nov 06 17:08 |
| fewa | whats wrong with yt and phIRCe? | Nov 06 17:08 |
| schestowitz |  | Nov 06 17:09 |
| schestowitz | [17:06] <DaemonFC> Unemployment is 10.2% | Nov 06 17:09 |
| schestowitz | It's not | Nov 06 17:09 |
| schestowitz | They changed the definitions | Nov 06 17:10 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/09/17/keith_olbermann_rush_limbaugh__racism_on_the_right.html | Nov 06 17:10 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: RealClearPolitics - Video - Keith Olbermann: Rush Limbaugh & Racism On The Right .::. Size~: 32.34 KB | Nov 06 17:10 |
| schestowitz | Ah. fewa beat me to it | Nov 06 17:10 |
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| schestowitz | [17:07] <DaemonFC> Obama comes out and assures us that 2 out of 3 people still have jobs | Nov 06 17:10 |
| schestowitz | It's not his fault | Nov 06 17:10 |
| schestowitz | He inherits the mess | Nov 06 17:10 |
| schestowitz | And he needs to show leadership with optimism | Nov 06 17:11 |
| schestowitz | It's other thugs that doubled the US debt in just years | Nov 06 17:11 |
| fewa | He needs to break up the banks | Nov 06 17:11 |
| fewa | reregulate the financial sector | Nov 06 17:11 |
| DaemonFC | fewa, He's letting the feds seize smaller banks | Nov 06 17:11 |
| fewa | say that he will sign suck laws | Nov 06 17:11 |
| DaemonFC | does that count? | Nov 06 17:11 |
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| DaemonFC | :D | Nov 06 17:11 |
| schestowitz | And also deregulated to allow criminal corporations like MSFT off the hook, banks also | Nov 06 17:11 |
| DaemonFC | another Jimmy Carter | Nov 06 17:11 |
| fewa | Audit the Fed | Nov 06 17:12 |
| DaemonFC | Obama won't do that | Nov 06 17:12 |
| schestowitz | Many people would not get loans for houses; better than losign those houses and have empty houses, homeless familes | Nov 06 17:12 |
| DaemonFC | the banks funded his election | Nov 06 17:12 |
| fewa | restore the constitution, in that money much be authorized by congress | Nov 06 17:12 |
| fewa | I think I found the prob with YT | Nov 06 17:14 |
| fewa | its that the title is no a second line | Nov 06 17:14 |
| fewa | http://pastebin.com/m79323c45 | Nov 06 17:14 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: pastebin - collaborative debugging tool .::. Size~: 11.34 KB | Nov 06 17:14 |
| DaemonFC | fewa, Follow the money, you'll find that the bad guys wanted Obama in there more | Nov 06 17:14 |
| DaemonFC | I think McCain was in on the thing, honestly | Nov 06 17:14 |
| fewa | and the regexp works line by line | Nov 06 17:14 |
| DaemonFC | the guy ran a campaign that was essentially a far right hate machine | Nov 06 17:15 |
| fewa | guess tramco isn't here | Nov 06 17:15 |
| DaemonFC | and he was as boring as an Ambien cocktail with a Nyquil chaser | Nov 06 17:15 |
| fewa | http://php.net/manual/en/book.xml.php | Nov 06 17:15 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: PHP: XML Parser - Manual .::. Size~: 14.75 KB | Nov 06 17:15 |
| fewa | http://simplehtmldom.sourceforge.net/ | Nov 06 17:16 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: PHP Simple HTML DOM Parser .::. Size~: 6.31 KB | Nov 06 17:16 |
| fewa | trmanco, | Nov 06 17:17 |
| fewa | DaemonFC, the banker far preferred Obama, that is true | Nov 06 17:17 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fhr-dnvuBk&feature=related | Nov 06 17:17 |
| fewa | *bankers | Nov 06 17:17 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | Nov 06 17:17 |
| trmanco | what | Nov 06 17:17 |
| fewa | <fewa> I think I found the prob with YT | Nov 06 17:18 |
| fewa | <fewa> its that the title is no a second line | Nov 06 17:18 |
| fewa | <fewa> http://pastebin.com/m79323c45 | Nov 06 17:18 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: pastebin - collaborative debugging tool .::. Size~: 11.31 KB | Nov 06 17:18 |
| fewa | <fewa> and the regexp works line by line | Nov 06 17:18 |
| fewa | for phIRCe | Nov 06 17:18 |
| trmanco | it use to work with youtube | Nov 06 17:18 |
| trmanco | :| | Nov 06 17:18 |
| fewa | hmm | Nov 06 17:18 |
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| trmanco | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn13PwaRQ6s | Nov 06 17:19 |
| trmanco | :| | Nov 06 17:19 |
| schestowitz | Try it from your side maybe | Nov 06 17:19 |
| schestowitz | Perhaps an IP thing | Nov 06 17:19 |
| fewa | see what its getting | Nov 06 17:19 |
| schestowitz | It's useful to have YouTube titles | Nov 06 17:19 |
| schestowitz | It's where the URL mean nothing | Nov 06 17:19 |
| zer0c00l | trmanco: No twitter updates these days? | Nov 06 17:19 |
| trmanco | not really | Nov 06 17:20 |
| zer0c00l | damn you removed me =( | Nov 06 17:20 |
| trmanco | uh? | Nov 06 17:20 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZWRyMCxRs8 | Nov 06 17:20 |
| zer0c00l | yea | Nov 06 17:20 |
| schestowitz | Is it just me, or did YouTube begin annoying ads earlier today? | Nov 06 17:22 |
| schestowitz | 20-second ads at the start of most | Nov 06 17:22 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Judge rules against the real kind of music #Pirate, good job http://ur1.ca/f9ti | Nov 06 17:23 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Slashdot Your Rights Online Story | EMI Sues the Beatles Off the Net .::. Size~: 141.82 KB | Nov 06 17:23 |
| schestowitz | http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/05/texas.fort.hood.shootings/index.html | Nov 06 17:24 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Officials: Fort Hood shootings suspect alive; 12 dead - CNN.com .::. Size~: 63.64 KB | Nov 06 17:24 |
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| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GucRw1qPEck | Nov 06 17:28 |
| DaemonFC | Jesse Ventura on Hannity | Nov 06 17:28 |
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| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] கொசுத் தொல்ல தாங்க முடியல x( | Nov 06 17:33 | |
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| DaemonFC | Jesse Ventura: "You give me a waterboard, one hour, and Dick Cheney, and I'll have him confessing to the Sharon Tate murders" | Nov 06 17:39 |
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| schestowitz | Good idea | Nov 06 17:41 |
| schestowitz | But.... | Nov 06 17:41 |
| schestowitz | Cheney's heart would collapse within 2 seconds | Nov 06 17:41 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Mark Shuttleworth: "that whole billionaire cosmonaut bachelor thing is overrated" :) #fb | Nov 06 17:46 | |
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| schestowitz | Yuck.. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzY3OA | Nov 06 17:49 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: [Phoronix] They Say A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words .::. Size~: 15.6 KB | Nov 06 17:49 |
| schestowitz | gtg bbl | Nov 06 17:49 |
| schestowitz | Charity run.... | Nov 06 17:50 |
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| DaemonFC | http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19512_7-10391842-233.html | Nov 06 18:03 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Why is baby crying? This app translates | iPhone Atlas - CNET Reviews .::. Size~: 78.17 KB | Nov 06 18:03 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Robbie Williams comes crawling back to Take That http://notnews.today.com/?p=720 | Nov 06 18:34 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Robbie Williams comes crawling back to Take That - News of the News .::. Size~: 34.32 KB | Nov 06 18:34 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Jeremu Allison gives great introduction to Free Software http://www.fsf.org/ #FOSS #GNU #Linux #FSF | Nov 06 18:41 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Welcome! - Free Software Foundation .::. Size~: 12.6 KB | Nov 06 18:41 |
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| natasiel | hello ladies and gentlemen | Nov 06 18:45 |
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| sebsebseb | ikonia: hi | Nov 06 18:49 |
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| DaemonFC | The funniest thing I've seen the morons in this town do, is have all the school buses run on Biodiesel then cancel school for two days cause the buses wouldn't start one winter and they had to pump the tanks | Nov 06 19:12 |
| fewa | biodiesel is great | Nov 06 19:14 |
| fewa | its better than fossil diesel | Nov 06 19:14 |
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| DaemonFC | fewa, Til it sludges up | Nov 06 19:26 |
| DaemonFC | and you can't start your bus/truck/car | Nov 06 19:26 |
| DaemonFC | it sludges up a lot easier than even Diesel in cold weather | Nov 06 19:27 |
| DaemonFC | nothing like having to get a block heater and waiting a half hour to start your car, right fewa? | Nov 06 19:27 |
| DaemonFC | BioDiesel is another leftist looney pipe dream | Nov 06 19:28 |
| DaemonFC | not as bad as E-85, but close | Nov 06 19:28 |
| DaemonFC | they not only don't prevent or offset many pounds of CO2 emission, E-85 also costs more to run your car on, even with all the liberal subsidies | Nov 06 19:29 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] AlJazeera on media hoaxes Baloon boy, Yes Men, warmongering http://ur1.ca/fa6q #sensation | Nov 06 19:29 | |
| DaemonFC | E-85 is not going to be saved just by tax subsidy when it only costs like 2-15% less and makes your fuel gauge go "PLINK!" from F to E a third again as fast | Nov 06 19:29 |
| DaemonFC | not to even mention the fact that it's doubling food prices in Mexico | Nov 06 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | (and raising them a fair amount in the US too) | Nov 06 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | it much be stopped, it's not a solution | Nov 06 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | it just takes one massive problem and turns it into many | Nov 06 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | *must | Nov 06 19:31 |
| DaemonFC | E-85 is like this horrible joke that materialized instead of Hydrogen fuel cells | Nov 06 19:31 |
| DaemonFC | hell, the government giving the corn subsidy to people that buy hybrids would be a better use of that wasted money | Nov 06 19:31 |
| DaemonFC | E-85 sounds like a great idea on paper, fewa, til you try to run your car on it | Nov 06 19:32 |
| DaemonFC | and you see what awful, nasty shit it really is | Nov 06 19:32 |
| DaemonFC | if gas is $3.20 a gallon, fewa, E-85 sounds like a bargain at $2.72, until you lose about 27% of your fuel economy and you're actually paying the equivalent of $3.58 a gallon gas to run your car on E-85 | Nov 06 19:34 |
| DaemonFC | you're paying about 12% more than if you had just bought gasoline in the first place | Nov 06 19:35 |
| fewa | I wasn't talking about ethenol | Nov 06 19:35 |
| fewa | I was talking about bio-diesel | Nov 06 19:35 |
| DaemonFC | fewa, And if those government subsidies stopped cominy, you'd be paying 30% more for E-85 | Nov 06 19:35 |
| fewa | ethnol in the US, corn ethanol, is a ecological mess, its woorse than fossil fuels | Nov 06 19:35 |
| DaemonFC | *coming | Nov 06 19:35 |
| DaemonFC | yes, E-85 is an unmitigated disaster, but the federal bribes keep encouraging more stations to put in an E-85 pump | Nov 06 19:36 |
| DaemonFC | not to sell E-85, to get the tax credit | Nov 06 19:36 |
| DaemonFC | fewa, That's a liberal plan isn't it? | Nov 06 19:36 |
| fewa | no | Nov 06 19:36 |
| fewa | its the agribusiness plan | Nov 06 19:36 |
| DaemonFC | to waste your tax money giving subsidies to gas stations and corn farmers | Nov 06 19:37 |
| fewa | big agro | Nov 06 19:37 |
| fewa | monsanto | Nov 06 19:37 |
| fewa | its not "liberal" at all | Nov 06 19:37 |
| DaemonFC | fewa, Wouldn't you agree that the federal bribe money would be better spent in the form of icnreasing tax credits for purchasers of hybrids? | Nov 06 19:37 |
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| DaemonFC | or just eliminated and let the market compete fairly? | Nov 06 19:37 |
| fewa | DaemonFC, and plug-in hybrids | Nov 06 19:37 |
| DaemonFC | without crooked liberals propping up big business | Nov 06 19:38 |
| fewa | DaemonFC, you have large illusions about "the market" | Nov 06 19:38 |
| fewa | the market doesn't work | Nov 06 19:38 |
| fewa | its the monstrous myth | Nov 06 19:38 |
| DaemonFC | fewa, Without the tax credit, hybrids are an even worse idea | Nov 06 19:38 |
| fewa | hybrids are much better than gas-guzzling SUVs | Nov 06 19:38 |
| fewa | but they should be plug-in hybrids | Nov 06 19:38 |
| DaemonFC | Oh joy, I can get a $50,000 car with 90 horsepower that costs me $1,500 for a new battery every 2-3 years | Nov 06 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | the battery alone makes gas more affordable again | Nov 06 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | and what about disposing of the battery? | Nov 06 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | mmmmm, lead acid batteries | Nov 06 19:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: dont pay attention to DaemonFC | Nov 06 19:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | hes an idiot | Nov 06 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | that sounds eco-friendly | Nov 06 19:39 |
| fewa | Diablo-D3, agreed | Nov 06 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | fewa, So why should I buy an underpwoered clown car for $50,000 and replace a $1,500 battery every 2-3 years to save like maybe $400 a year on gas? | Nov 06 19:40 |
| fewa | ignored | Nov 06 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | I mean, use your liberal fuzzy math | Nov 06 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | sell me on this bullshit | Nov 06 19:40 |
| fewa | should really go somewhere else | Nov 06 19:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | especially when I can buy a 248 horsepower sports car for $100k | Nov 06 19:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats all electric | Nov 06 19:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | no hybrid faggotry here | Nov 06 19:41 |
| fewa | yes, electric cars are the future | Nov 06 19:41 |
| fewa | and they already exist | Nov 06 19:41 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, And get like 20 miles before it dies? | Nov 06 19:41 |
| DaemonFC | knock yourself out | Nov 06 19:41 |
| DaemonFC | and again with the batteries that need to be disposed of | Nov 06 19:41 |
| fewa | the car companies and govt destroyed them | Nov 06 19:41 |
| fewa | literally | Nov 06 19:41 |
| DaemonFC | there's no market for an electric car | Nov 06 19:41 |
| fewa | now UAW needs to start making electric cars | Nov 06 19:42 |
| DaemonFC | they get like 20-30 miles on an 8 hour charge | Nov 06 19:42 |
| DaemonFC | it's ridiculous | Nov 06 19:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | uses some modern lithium ion setup, lats 7 years, will cost about $1000 to replace them in 7 years | Nov 06 19:42 |
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| Diablo-D3 | and drives about 250 miles on a single charge | Nov 06 19:42 |
| fewa | Diablo-D3, yeah, hopefully UAW is aware and responsive | Nov 06 19:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | but do realize its a sports car, I dont expect to get a long drive out of that | Nov 06 19:42 |
| fewa | and will get the new GM, or the plants, to go that direction | Nov 06 19:42 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, So if I live in an apartment and don't have any place to plug the thing in | Nov 06 19:42 |
| DaemonFC | what do I do? | Nov 06 19:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: you sue. | Nov 06 19:42 |
| DaemonFC | run an extension cord through the yard and down the block? | Nov 06 19:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | and also, you go on ignore. | Nov 06 19:43 |
| fewa | ten years ago there was 120 mile range electrics | Nov 06 19:43 |
| fewa | I'm sure they can go farther | Nov 06 19:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | Ahh, 10x less shit | Nov 06 19:43 |
| fewa | these are consumer-class cars | Nov 06 19:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | I love the tesla roadster | Nov 06 19:43 |
| fewa | not special | Nov 06 19:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | its an amazing car | Nov 06 19:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | you know what the best part is? | Nov 06 19:43 |
| fewa | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F | Nov 06 19:43 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Who Killed the Electric Car? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 62.69 KB | Nov 06 19:43 |
| fewa | The EV1 | Nov 06 19:43 |
| DaemonFC | nobody wanted that crap | Nov 06 19:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | hot wheels uses the body design directly from tesla for their car | Nov 06 19:43 |
| DaemonFC | it was a joke | Nov 06 19:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | not a reverse engineered mockup, but the real thing | Nov 06 19:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | tesla has been the only company to do it | Nov 06 19:44 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.kwikset.com/Products/SmartScan/default.aspx | Nov 06 19:44 |
| fewa | thats what the UAW needs to do if it wants to say relevent | Nov 06 19:45 |
| fewa | that and wind turbines | Nov 06 19:45 |
| fewa | and single payer health care | Nov 06 19:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | the UAW has never been relevant | Nov 06 19:46 |
| fewa | the UAW owns GM | Nov 06 19:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes, so? | Nov 06 19:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | unions are dead. | Nov 06 19:46 |
| fewa | well, OK | Nov 06 19:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | they're bad for the economy, they're bad for america | Nov 06 19:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | they're bad for both workers and businesses | Nov 06 19:46 |
| wallc | Small correction: Unions being taken over by corruption are bad for both workers and businesses. | Nov 06 19:52 |
| fewa | wallc, agreed | Nov 06 19:53 |
| wallc | anyone that's had to work in toxic, unsafe environments will understand. | Nov 06 19:54 |
| fewa | OSHA | Nov 06 19:55 |
| wallc | OSHA, yes, but it doesn't protect employees from management | Nov 06 19:56 |
| fewa | no | Nov 06 19:56 |
| wallc | Speaking of unsafe environments, I'll be helping a friend get rid of Vista this evening...such fun :) | Nov 06 19:58 |
| fewa | I'm doing something similar in a few hours | Nov 06 19:59 |
| fewa | someone who knew ol UNIX, and wants to dump MSFT | Nov 06 19:59 |
| wallc | lol...killing Microsoft, one computer at a time :) | Nov 06 19:59 |
| fewa | thinks that it will be complicated | Nov 06 19:59 |
| fewa | is in for a suprise....of how much *nix has advanced | Nov 06 19:59 |
| fewa | spec. due to free software | Nov 06 19:59 |
| fewa | Ford Unveils New Car For Cash-Strapped Buyers: The 1993 Taurus | Nov 06 20:00 |
| fewa | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8UtRNCztVI | Nov 06 20:00 |
| wallc | The hardest part, for me, is getting people's expectations to stay in reasonable bounds... | Nov 06 20:00 |
| fewa | It will do your laundry@ | Nov 06 20:01 |
| fewa | !!!! | Nov 06 20:01 |
| wallc | I keep repeating, it isn't Windows, it isn't Windows, it isn't Windows... | Nov 06 20:01 |
| fewa | you have to focus on needs | Nov 06 20:01 |
| fewa | installing adblock, some apps, etc is good | Nov 06 20:01 |
| fewa | I think alot of people never tinker with their comp | Nov 06 20:02 |
| wallc | I've really worked hard over the last several years to encourage people to use free software on Windows, so they won't have to relearn *everything* if they decide to shange systems. | Nov 06 20:02 |
| fewa | Firefox, Firefox, Firefox | Nov 06 20:02 |
| fewa | personally I <3 miro | Nov 06 20:03 |
| fewa | something I got into not long ago | Nov 06 20:03 |
| wallc | Yes, Firefox, and OO.o...though I recommend AbiWord for folks that aren't big Office Suite users. | Nov 06 20:03 |
| fewa | Debian needs a better desktop-environment package | Nov 06 20:04 |
| wallc | Does Miro work on Windows? | Nov 06 20:04 |
| fewa | the default install really matters | Nov 06 20:04 |
| fewa | wallc, yes | Nov 06 20:04 |
| wallc | I've been a little anxious (nervous) about helping people lately | Nov 06 20:05 |
| wallc | It seems everything is in transition, and I'm having a few problems with my Ubuntu system (I know, I should have waited to upgrade :) | Nov 06 20:06 |
| fewa | mine worked great | Nov 06 20:06 |
| fewa | except for pulseaudio, which has always been a prob | Nov 06 20:06 |
| wallc | Mine worked great too...until some updates yesterday morning. | Nov 06 20:06 |
| fewa | also the newest kernel build doesn't work | Nov 06 20:06 |
| fewa | i have to use -3 instead of -4 | Nov 06 20:07 |
| wallc | I do too. | Nov 06 20:07 |
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| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Holy crap thats an ugly mouse http://ur1.ca/fa99 #openoffice | Nov 06 20:08 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: OpenOfficeMouse isn't free, isn't pretty .::. Size~: 124.13 KB | Nov 06 20:08 |
| wallc | anyway, things always seem to sort themselves out. | Nov 06 20:08 |
| fewa | esp. if you report bugs on hardware issues | Nov 06 20:08 |
| wallc | I'm never sure if problems on my machines are bugs, or user screw-ups...lol | Nov 06 20:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | I cant to report a bug on that hardware | Nov 06 20:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | TOO MANY FUCKING BUTTONS | Nov 06 20:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | [02:48:26] <wallc> Small correction: Unions being taken over by corruption are bad for both workers and businesses. | Nov 06 20:10 |
| fewa | and on software | Nov 06 20:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | wallc: thats all unions | Nov 06 20:10 |
| fewa | I report bugs | Nov 06 20:10 |
| fewa | and they get fixed | Nov 06 20:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | wallc: in fact, its anything involving management | Nov 06 20:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | managers, unions, governments | Nov 06 20:10 |
| fewa | Diablo-D3, power corrupts | Nov 06 20:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | anything that involves people not doing work for a job, its corrupt | Nov 06 20:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: no | Nov 06 20:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | stupidity begets stupidity | Nov 06 20:10 |
| fewa | no | Nov 06 20:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | people who arent stupid cant be corrupted by something as lowly as power. | Nov 06 20:11 |
| fewa | its the problem of undeserved power over others | Nov 06 20:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | all power is undeserved over others. | Nov 06 20:12 |
| fewa | most | Nov 06 20:12 |
| fewa | not all | Nov 06 20:12 |
| fewa | and the burden is upon he/she who executes power | Nov 06 20:12 |
| fewa | <Diablo-D3> people who arent stupid cant be corrupted by something as lowly as power. | Nov 06 20:14 |
| fewa | not at all | Nov 06 20:15 |
| fewa | stupidity is often faux | Nov 06 20:15 |
| wallc | Corruption often happens when opportunists see something that can be turned to profit...they want control first... | Nov 06 20:15 |
| fewa | and that control should be denied | Nov 06 20:16 |
| wallc | It's like Microsoft slowly wedging themselves into FOSS, their goal is to control and profit... | Nov 06 20:16 |
| fewa | those "opportunists" are usually corruptors, they wish no reform, progress | Nov 06 20:17 |
| fewa | the real progressives are almost always open, social movements | Nov 06 20:17 |
| wallc | but they really really want people to think they're good guys. | Nov 06 20:17 |
| wallc | and that they know what's best for people. | Nov 06 20:17 |
| fewa | or just keep to themselves, and do the thing they see can be done | Nov 06 20:17 |
| fewa | Microsoft was not the first the execute that sort of control | Nov 06 20:18 |
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| wallc | I think that sort of thing happened to unions too, the mobsters didn't like people organizing in ways that couldn't be controlled | Nov 06 20:19 |
| fewa | its largely a problem of the way the law was applied by the courts | Nov 06 20:19 |
| fewa | this absurd nothing that purely practical binary executables, could hold copyright | Nov 06 20:19 |
| wallc | Microsoft doesn't like free-software community to flourish, because it can't be controlled. | Nov 06 20:19 |
| fewa | something that would have been absurd to the founders | Nov 06 20:19 |
| fewa | *notion | Nov 06 20:19 |
| wallc | these next few years are going to be very interesting, indeed | Nov 06 20:20 |
| fewa | wallc, Microsoft is still the symptom of a the law that lets such corps execute power over others | Nov 06 20:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: let me rephrase | Nov 06 20:20 |
| fewa | a unjust power | Nov 06 20:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im not stupid enough to let power or money change me | Nov 06 20:21 |
| fewa | without comparison in the history of copyright | Nov 06 20:21 |
| fewa | Diablo-D3, its not the people, its the institutions | Nov 06 20:21 |
| fewa | They have to play their instutional role | Nov 06 20:21 |
| fewa | that role has a higher priority over their own self interest | Nov 06 20:22 |
| fewa | makes them do illogical things | Nov 06 20:22 |
| fewa | and having that role is dependant on them doing these illogical, immoral, or unjust things | Nov 06 20:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | if the officials in our government wernt corrupt, our government wouldnt be corrupt | Nov 06 20:22 |
| fewa | it is those who set the structure of what the roles are, that control society | Nov 06 20:22 |
| fewa | people in government, Microsoft, lots of these instutions | Nov 06 20:23 |
| fewa | the individuals are not neccicarily evil, they are playing their role | Nov 06 20:23 |
| fewa | its the institution which promote this corruption that need to go | Nov 06 20:23 |
| fewa | its a structural problem | Nov 06 20:23 |
| fewa | have you heard of the bad drives out the good? | Nov 06 20:24 |
| fewa | thats the problem | Nov 06 20:24 |
| fewa | those that are not corrupt are driven out, becuase they cannot compete | Nov 06 20:24 |
| fewa | thats the market system at work | Nov 06 20:24 |
| fewa | the economy of corruption in washington | Nov 06 20:25 |
| fewa | the officials feed the interests, the interests feed the lobbiests, and the lobbiests feed the officials | Nov 06 20:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: if I was a senator, I'd rather work towards a day where I'd no longer be needed. | Nov 06 20:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | so, clearly, I'm too awesome for the position | Nov 06 20:26 |
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| fewa | Diablo-D3, thats the jist of it | Nov 06 20:26 |
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| fewa | http://action.change-congress.org/signUp.jsp?key=2772 | Nov 06 20:29 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Change Congress .::. Size~: 59.54 KB | Nov 06 20:29 |
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| fewa | Congress is better than the corporations | Nov 06 20:30 |
| fewa | esp the house of representatives | Nov 06 20:30 |
| fewa | but it requires actual debate | Nov 06 20:30 |
| fewa | requires a real media | Nov 06 20:30 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Fewa> a representitive government is easy to corrupt. Fewer people to bribe, err, I mean lobby, than a true democacy, like the greek city states. | Nov 06 20:30 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Republics, mostly are based on the Roman model | Nov 06 20:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and look what happened there over the course of time | Nov 06 20:31 |
| fewa | Chips_B_Malroy, the greek city states believed in public discourse | Nov 06 20:31 |
| fewa | they did not have our propaganda model, AFAIK | Nov 06 20:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and everyone (at least male citizens old enough to fight) had a vote | Nov 06 20:32 |
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| fewa | the states were small | Nov 06 20:32 |
| fewa | they also had non-representative government | Nov 06 20:32 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its easier to corrupt 500 representatives, than say 300 million voters | Nov 06 20:32 |
| fewa | where men were chosen by random | Nov 06 20:32 |
| oiaohm | Biggest issue is something else. | Nov 06 20:32 |
| fewa | ^ | Nov 06 20:33 |
| oiaohm | Out of those 500 rep how many open debates are done. | Nov 06 20:33 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | in an electronic age, true democracy should be easy to set up | Nov 06 20:33 |
| oiaohm | With all of them envolved. | Nov 06 20:33 |
| oiaohm | The problem of party rooms and the like that mess up the system. | Nov 06 20:33 |
| fewa | democracy depends on two things: | Nov 06 20:33 |
| fewa | 1)candid public discourse | Nov 06 20:33 |
| fewa | --Dependant on true freedom of speech | Nov 06 20:34 |
| oiaohm | Pre planed voting kinda screws that up. | Nov 06 20:34 |
| fewa | and 2) that peoples positions are taken into consideration | Nov 06 20:34 |
| fewa | voting for people is horrible faulty | Nov 06 20:35 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | we can change the bunch at present in Washington, or London for that matter, but the next group in will most likely be just as bad. Its the system that has been corrupted now | Nov 06 20:35 |
| oiaohm | Australia is a little better on voting then USA. You have to vote of be fined here. | Nov 06 20:35 |
| fewa | there was a movie made about citizen government, havnt seen it | Nov 06 20:35 |
| fewa | from Sweden | Nov 06 20:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: you mean wors | Nov 06 20:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | people are just going to vote randomly | Nov 06 20:36 |
| fewa | oiaohm, big prob with federal govt in US is lack of direct democracy, or referrendums | Nov 06 20:36 |
| fewa | Diablo-D3, they can tear up their ballots | Nov 06 20:37 |
| fewa | Diablo-D3, they just have to show up | Nov 06 20:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | uh | Nov 06 20:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats a waste of people's time | Nov 06 20:37 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: that logic is not true. | Nov 06 20:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | and Im pretty sure the ballots are the property of the government, and ripping them up is probably frowned upon | Nov 06 20:37 |
| fewa | waste of peoples time to spend a litte time in self governance? | Nov 06 20:37 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | force voting is wrong, just for the reason that Diablo-D3 has said | Nov 06 20:37 |
| fewa | preventing tyranny? | Nov 06 20:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: no, they just vote in people theyve heard of | Nov 06 20:37 |
| oiaohm | Biggest issue is if people don't have to vote and they are bussy they will not vote Diablo-D3 | Nov 06 20:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | which causes tyranny | Nov 06 20:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: then they shouldnt vote | Nov 06 20:38 |
| fewa | Voting in US is on Tuesday | Nov 06 20:38 |
| fewa | WHY TUESDAY????? | Nov 06 20:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | people who cant dedicate a large portion of their time to understand their government should not even be allowed to vote | Nov 06 20:38 |
| fewa | and its not a holiday | Nov 06 20:38 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | we would rather have those who vote that are better educated on the issues | Nov 06 20:38 |
| oiaohm | Susprise the 20 percent who can get brain washed do vote in the USA Diablo-D3. Ie only the idiots mostly vote over there. | Nov 06 20:38 |
| fewa | Diablo-D3, so you are a James Madison | Nov 06 20:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: I voted for people who wernt democrats or republicans | Nov 06 20:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: try again | Nov 06 20:39 |
| oiaohm | Guess what I mean by idiots. | Nov 06 20:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | I'd rather the other 80% shut up, they'll drown out what little voice of reason there is left | Nov 06 20:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | oiohm, you wrong about that 20% | Nov 06 20:39 |
| oiaohm | People who vote for the same party without thinking about it because there faimlies have voted for that party for generations. | Nov 06 20:40 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ok, that I agree | Nov 06 20:40 |
| fewa | turnout in the recent off-year election was ~15% of those eligible to vote | Nov 06 20:40 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | no matter the side | Nov 06 20:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2009/11/500x_ZachSlootsky.jpg | Nov 06 20:40 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 06 20:40 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | why? | Nov 06 20:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | parties should not even be allowed in the US | Nov 06 20:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | and they should be disbanded | Nov 06 20:41 |
| fewa | presidential elections are ~35% | Nov 06 20:41 |
| fewa | Votes should be on policy | Nov 06 20:41 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | maybe its because there is so little difference between the 2 parties | Nov 06 20:41 |
| oiaohm | You need force to get those out who will think because they are normally the ones who are bussy who will not vote. This is known because a long time ago we had no law forcing voting Diablo-D3 | Nov 06 20:41 |
| fewa | the personality cult on hinders democracy | Nov 06 20:41 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | they get it they basically do the same things | Nov 06 20:41 |
| fewa | encourages corruption | Nov 06 20:42 |
| oiaohm | We had complete seats where no one voted Diablo-D3 | Nov 06 20:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: then no one should hold the seat, clearly. | Nov 06 20:42 |
| oiaohm | Those seats were pure zones where people were farmers and the like. Were everyone had something else to do. | Nov 06 20:43 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Fewa> when is the last time you did not vote for the lesser of two evils for President here? | Nov 06 20:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | the people's voice was heard, they wanted no voice in their government | Nov 06 20:43 |
| oiaohm | And they though someone else would vote Diablo-D3 | Nov 06 20:43 |
| fewa | Diablo-D3, that is not what they said | Nov 06 20:43 |
| oiaohm | So you are quite happly for people to get seats just because the people who vote for the same party without thinking get to vote alone Diablo-D3. | Nov 06 20:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: troll much? | Nov 06 20:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | I'm against parties. | Nov 06 20:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | They should be eliminated. | Nov 06 20:44 |
| fewa | Diablo-D3, i'm sorry, but you are the troll here | Nov 06 20:44 |
| oiaohm | Even with out parties | Nov 06 20:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: for standing up for the principals our founding fathers believed in? | Nov 06 20:45 |
| oiaohm | You still get people voting for the same famalies. | Nov 06 20:45 |
| fewa | well oiaohm is being reasonable | Nov 06 20:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | republican party calling fewa, please pick up the white courtesy phone | Nov 06 20:45 |
| oiaohm | So this problem does not magically go away just by killing parties Diablo-D3 | Nov 06 20:45 |
| fewa | Diablo-D3, :P | Nov 06 20:45 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | the only thing we have here, is a way for states to hold conventions to add the the constution, and admendment, if my social studies I remember correctly. That is as close to a referendum as we have. | Nov 06 20:45 |
| fewa | the real problem is lack of democracy | Nov 06 20:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: no, but forcing people to vote is also fail. | Nov 06 20:45 |
| fewa | lack of participation is policy | Nov 06 20:46 |
| fewa | the elections are largely about personalitys | Nov 06 20:46 |
| oiaohm | Remember forced to vote does not mean the vote submited has to be valid. | Nov 06 20:46 |
| oiaohm | Just that they turn up Diablo-D3 | Nov 06 20:46 |
| fewa | they are specifically designed to remove policy from discussion | Nov 06 20:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | then they turn up and leave and not vote | Nov 06 20:46 |
| fewa | because the main candidiates are against the public on a host of major issues | Nov 06 20:46 |
| oiaohm | If they rip the paper up and and stubmit it here they have voted Diablo-D3 | Nov 06 20:46 |
| fewa | (in the fed US) | Nov 06 20:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: sorry, thats fucking retarded | Nov 06 20:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | and barbaric | Nov 06 20:46 |
| fewa | we need votes on policy | Nov 06 20:46 |
| fewa | you have to give people a vote in their own governmance | Nov 06 20:47 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: It is what works. | Nov 06 20:47 |
| fewa | give a vote on EFCA, single payer, war spending | Nov 06 20:47 |
| fewa | to go war requires popular vote | Nov 06 20:47 |
| oiaohm | Australia system is screwed up by the voting system it self preferinal voting. | Nov 06 20:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: actually, theres many studies out there that say it makes it worse, not better | Nov 06 20:47 |
| fewa | Diablo-D3, which? | Nov 06 20:48 |
| oiaohm | Where Diablo-D3 | Nov 06 20:48 |
| fewa | Diablo-D3, and how? | Nov 06 20:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: google. | Nov 06 20:48 |
| oiaohm | Australian studies clearly disagree. | Nov 06 20:48 |
| oiaohm | We had seats that had been held for gerneations by people who were not doing there job at all. | Nov 06 20:49 |
| oiaohm | No change over of people inseats. | Nov 06 20:49 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | well people, its an interesting conversation, but the gov here is not going change. Its what the ruling class wants, the rich. | Nov 06 20:49 |
| fewa | voting without mandate is a collective action problem | Nov 06 20:49 |
| fewa | Chips_B_Malroy, great self-destructive suicidal tendancies | Nov 06 20:50 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it is not the worse form of gov either | Nov 06 20:50 |
| oiaohm | Once people were voting if it came out people were not working for there area lot of them were getting forced out Diablo-D3 | Nov 06 20:50 |
| fewa | Chips_B_Malroy, that certainly fixes problems..... | Nov 06 20:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: no, you just saw people randomly voting and it simply tipped the scale | Nov 06 20:50 |
| fewa | Chips_B_Malroy, mms://rx-wes-sea83.rbn.com/farm/pull/tx-rbn-sea007:1459/wmtencoder/cspan/cspan/wmlive/cspan3v.asf | Nov 06 20:50 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | fewa> I sorry if I am a pessimist about the gov, but I see little to be happy about | Nov 06 20:51 |
| fewa | Sen Sheldon Whitehouse is having real rational discussion right now | Nov 06 20:51 |
| fewa | about PATRIOT act reformation | Nov 06 20:51 |
| oiaohm | The raw australian vote if it was first past post. Not preferincal the vote would have been better. Diablo-D3 | Nov 06 20:51 |
| fewa | go watch it Chips_B_Malroy | Nov 06 20:51 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | words are cheap | Nov 06 20:51 |
| fewa | o wait, its from 3 days ago | Nov 06 20:51 |
| fewa | they were marking up the PATRIOT act | Nov 06 20:51 |
| fewa | http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/11/battle-won-not-war-patriot-reform-bill-passes-out- | Nov 06 20:52 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Two Battles Won: PATRIOT Reform AND State Secrets Reform Bills Pass House Committee | Electronic Frontier Foundation .::. Size~: 19.81 KB | Nov 06 20:52 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: bad arguement there was cases of people here getting in before it was mandory that every hated and in some cases they did not even know who there rep was Diablo-D3 | Nov 06 20:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | and they still dont | Nov 06 20:52 |
| oiaohm | That is wrong Diablo-D3 | Nov 06 20:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | in fact, they probably think the year is still 1992 | Nov 06 20:52 |
| oiaohm | Most people here do know who there local members are. | Nov 06 20:53 |
| fewa | Diablo-D3, screw off | Nov 06 20:53 |
| oiaohm | And do complain to them Diablo-D3 | Nov 06 20:53 |
| fewa | oiaohm, thats great | Nov 06 20:53 |
| oiaohm | and that is Australia wide. | Nov 06 20:53 |
| fewa | that simple thing us really hel[pful to democrac | Nov 06 20:54 |
| fewa | 1)know who represents you | Nov 06 20:54 |
| fewa | 2)air your griviences in a public forum | Nov 06 20:54 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | oiaohm> is your gov basically based on the British model? | Nov 06 20:54 |
| oiaohm | senate and house of commons in most states. Queenland state goverment does not have a senate due to one of the most warped thing in history. | Nov 06 20:55 |
| fewa | unicameral is better | Nov 06 20:56 |
| oiaohm | The members of the Queenland senate voted themselves out of existance. | Nov 06 20:56 |
| fewa | the "upper" house was only made to protect the "opulent against the majority" | Nov 06 20:56 |
| oiaohm | Yes it one of the most warped votes. | Nov 06 20:56 |
| fewa | oiaohm, wow, thats a case of transcendent self-interest if I ever saw one | Nov 06 20:57 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | The senate would be more of the equavalent of the British House of Lords, nobility, correct? | Nov 06 20:57 |
| fewa | Chips_B_Malroy, there is no nobility in the US, its specifically disallowed by the constitution | Nov 06 20:57 |
| oiaohm | Basically they voted that everything was rubber stamped and there would only need to be a meeting of the senate and vote for senate reps if something did not meet this. | Nov 06 20:58 |
| oiaohm | senate kinda Chips_B_Malroy | Nov 06 20:58 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | while the House of Commons, (in England) could not have members that were in the old noble class | Nov 06 20:58 |
| oiaohm | Half the senate is replaced at the times. | Nov 06 20:58 |
| oiaohm | And they are all voted in. | Nov 06 20:58 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | fewa> I am aware of the fact there is no nobility in USA | Nov 06 20:59 |
| fewa | Chips_B_Malroy, James Madison: "They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. The senate, therefore, ought to be this body; and to answer these purposes, they ought to have permanency and stability." | Nov 06 20:59 |
| oiaohm | Only case were we can have all. | Nov 06 20:59 |
| oiaohm | Is Double disolution twice. | Nov 06 20:59 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | my point is, that in old England, the House of Commons was a small effort to reign in the Noble class at one time | Nov 06 21:00 |
| oiaohm | I got it kind wrong. | Nov 06 21:00 |
| fewa | ^^^^look at James Madison quote, google for more context | Nov 06 21:00 |
| oiaohm | It senate and house of repesentives. | Nov 06 21:00 |
| oiaohm | I hate my brain at times for swaping things. | Nov 06 21:01 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but now, Senators and Respersatives in the USA are elected the same way, and as such both come from the same "class." By class I mean richer than the middle class. | Nov 06 21:01 |
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| oiaohm | If senate and repesentives cannot agree on something 3 times disolution happens. | Nov 06 21:01 |
| oiaohm | First time all the repesentives have to get voted back in. | Nov 06 21:02 |
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| oiaohm | Secound time everyone. | Nov 06 21:02 |
| oiaohm | So far the Secound time has never happend. | Nov 06 21:02 |
| oiaohm | Chips_B_Malroy: lower people in the USA cannot aford to run. | Nov 06 21:03 |
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| oiaohm | We have all kinds of different people get in. | Nov 06 21:04 |
| oiaohm | Only type that has not got in recent years is the unemployeed. | Nov 06 21:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | oiaohm> sadly I have to agree with you, that both the British gov and yours, is somewhat freer in some ways than what we have here now a present. But I think at the same time you have the same problems with multinational corporations and the rich running things | Nov 06 21:04 |
| oiaohm | Yes we do have problems with multinationals. | Nov 06 21:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | same thing | Nov 06 21:05 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @sarahlee310 Rep. Weiner withdraws single payer amendment http://ur1.ca/fad7 What are they afraid of? Hold vote on KUNINICH amendment! | Nov 06 21:05 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Rep. Weiner withdraws single payer amendment - PNHP's Official Blog .::. Size~: 31.72 KB | Nov 06 21:05 |
| oiaohm | We do have that all party/ellected officals must decare openly the money or meals/what ever they get from companies or people Chips_B_Malroy | Nov 06 21:05 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | money is the grease that representative governments run on | Nov 06 21:05 |
| oiaohm | If they are caught breaking that. | Nov 06 21:05 |
| oiaohm | It is jail. | Nov 06 21:06 |
| oiaohm | if they are caught vote on something they have vested interest in for there own proft also jail. | Nov 06 21:06 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I knew we were in big trouble when they failed to break up M$ | Nov 06 21:06 |
| oiaohm | This helps a lot. | Nov 06 21:06 |
| oiaohm | Note after jail they cannot get back into the ellected system. | Nov 06 21:07 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | M$ was one of the first to openly corrupt the process of antitrust laws | Nov 06 21:07 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @sarahlee310 Kucinich: Why Is It We Have Finite Resources for #HealthCare but Unlimited Money for War? http://bit.ly/1Xu12X #p2 #hc | Nov 06 21:07 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its been all downhill since Bill did that | Nov 06 21:07 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Kucinich: Why Is It We Have Finite Resources for Health Care but Unlimited Money for War? | CommonDreams.org .::. Size~: 33.84 KB | Nov 06 21:07 |
| oiaohm | Of course its like foxes protecting chickens from foxes. | Nov 06 21:07 |
| oiaohm | Parties will reseace to win to find out if anyone has broken the rules here. | Nov 06 21:08 |
| oiaohm | Since it can allow them to remove the one that will not vote there way. | Nov 06 21:08 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | if you can corrupt the system like M$ has done, you can also control it to your advantage | Nov 06 21:08 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @sarahlee310  Rep. Weiner withdraws #singlepayer amendment http://ur1.ca/fad7 What are they afraid of? Hold vote on KUNINICH amendment! | Nov 06 21:08 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Rep. Weiner withdraws single payer amendment - PNHP's Official Blog .::. Size~: 31.72 KB | Nov 06 21:08 |
| oiaohm | ie Foxes protecting chickens it does not always works but it can work sometimes Chips_B_Malroy | Nov 06 21:08 |
| fewa | Chips_B_Malroy, re: rich, Sanders | Nov 06 21:09 |
| oiaohm | It is really rare here for the rich to get in. | Nov 06 21:09 |
| oiaohm | People here are more likely to vote for a poor person than a rich one | Nov 06 21:09 |
| oiaohm | Partly because since everyone votes the poor out number the rich. | Nov 06 21:10 |
| fewa | oiaohm, here the self made rich are a very differn't class | Nov 06 21:10 |
| oiaohm | Australian nature does not put up with that too much. | Nov 06 21:10 |
| oiaohm | Most of the Australian self made rich you cannot pick them. | Nov 06 21:11 |
| oiaohm | I still remember 2 of the self made rich here trying to give away money. | Nov 06 21:11 |
| fewa | Grayson for example | Nov 06 21:11 |
| oiaohm | Due to the way they were dressed no one would believe they were rich. | Nov 06 21:11 |
| fewa | Nader wrote a boot about it: "Only the super-rich can save us!" | Nov 06 21:12 |
| oiaohm | Yes pair of surf looking bums. | Nov 06 21:12 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | depends on what your meaning of the word "rich" is oiaohm | Nov 06 21:12 |
| oiaohm | In the billions Chips_B_Malroy | Nov 06 21:12 |
| fewa | geeze, there arnt many of those | Nov 06 21:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Bama only had 700 hundred thousand dollars in his personal wealth when he ran | Nov 06 21:13 |
| fewa | how many of them are there in AU? | Nov 06 21:13 |
| oiaohm | About 20 fewa | Nov 06 21:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but I would still say that Bama is rich | Nov 06 21:13 |
| fewa | I was referring to a little less | Nov 06 21:13 |
| oiaohm | Yet most people will not pick them fewa | Nov 06 21:13 |
| fewa | those types of dynastic wealth are usually more criminal | Nov 06 21:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | what is middle class? | Nov 06 21:13 |
| fewa | I'm referring to technology wealth based on real stuff | Nov 06 21:14 |
| oiaohm | Who wants to be rich and unable to go out in public fewa | Nov 06 21:14 |
| fewa | like silicon valley in US | Nov 06 21:14 |
| fewa | that type of rich | Nov 06 21:14 |
| fewa | or Alan Grayson | Nov 06 21:14 |
| fewa | from telecommunications | Nov 06 21:14 |
| oiaohm | No Australian is that dumb. | Nov 06 21:14 |
| fewa | then went into prosecuting fraud of iraqi contractors | Nov 06 21:14 |
| fewa | oiaohm, dumb? | Nov 06 21:14 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | only the rich, and those who work for the rich in politics, with a very few exceptions, run or get elected here | Nov 06 21:14 |
| oiaohm | USA rich have to have private secuirty and a whole stack of stuff because they look major different to the normal. | Nov 06 21:15 |
| oiaohm | Australian rich normally look perfectly normal. | Nov 06 21:15 |
| fewa | oiaohm, I don't think you understand the structure of such corruption | Nov 06 21:15 |
| fewa | the self-made rich usually are not corrupt | Nov 06 21:15 |
| fewa | unless they made it through corruption | Nov 06 21:15 |
| oiaohm | We have corruption. | Nov 06 21:15 |
| fewa | like Gates, or the Great Gatsby | Nov 06 21:16 |
| oiaohm | Remember murdoc and packer self made media moggles fewa | Nov 06 21:16 |
| oiaohm | Some of our self made are just as bad. | Nov 06 21:16 |
| fewa | yes | Nov 06 21:16 |
| fewa | they are usually alergic to sunlight | Nov 06 21:17 |
| fewa | :P | Nov 06 21:17 |
| oiaohm | Note both were Australians before Murdoc become a USA cit. | Nov 06 21:17 |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Nov 06 21:17 | |
| fewa | oOo | Nov 06 21:17 |
| fewa | The Sun | Nov 06 21:17 |
| fewa | aha | Nov 06 21:17 |
| fewa | US has lots of technical wealth | Nov 06 21:17 |
| fewa | esp Silicon Valley | Nov 06 21:18 |
| oiaohm | Australian designs a lot of the techinical wealth. | Nov 06 21:18 |
| oiaohm | We just got no means to produce it here. | Nov 06 21:18 |
| oiaohm | Silicon Valley has the access to production. | Nov 06 21:18 |
| fewa | the internet was a huge boon to innovation in the US | Nov 06 21:18 |
| fewa | innovation and commerce | Nov 06 21:18 |
| oiaohm | wifi and bluetooth both based off Australian tech fewa | Nov 06 21:19 |
| fewa | and now corruption seeks to destroy it | Nov 06 21:19 |
| fewa | bluetooth sucks | Nov 06 21:19 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I noticed that M$ held back windows seven revenue for not next quarter, but I think the quarter beyond that, the first three months of 2010. Which could be the worse quarter for M$, as sales in that quarter are usually the worse | Nov 06 21:19 |
| fewa | Big Ma Bell | Nov 06 21:20 |
| oiaohm | People forget the importance of being able to produce stuff. | Nov 06 21:20 |
| oiaohm | It is what is starting to go wrong in the USA now. | Nov 06 21:20 |
| fewa | oiaohm, agreed | Nov 06 21:20 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | If this Xmas retale season is bad here in USA, and windows computers do not sell well, MS will layoff again in Jan | Nov 06 21:20 |
| oiaohm | More and more of the production is being out sourced. | Nov 06 21:20 |
| fewa | but its not "forgetting" | Nov 06 21:20 |
| fewa | the US corps did it without consultation of the people | Nov 06 21:20 |
| fewa | off-shored because people in the US were too well off | Nov 06 21:21 |
| fewa | they wanted more destitute people | Nov 06 21:21 |
| fewa | that they could treat harsher | Nov 06 21:21 |
| oiaohm | Its the reason why I have lots of interesting in projects like raprep | Nov 06 21:21 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | fewa> they did consult the people | Nov 06 21:21 |
| fewa | Chips_B_Malroy, was there a vote on NAFTA? | Nov 06 21:21 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | fewa> it was called NAFTA, yes | Nov 06 21:21 |
| fewa | Chips_B_Malroy, what would that the have been? | Nov 06 21:21 |
| oiaohm | I see items like raprep as the only way to correct the problem. | Nov 06 21:21 |
| fewa | Chips_B_Malroy, in a direct election | Nov 06 21:22 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | NAFTA was the means to off shore jobs and make manufacturing non exsistent here | Nov 06 21:22 |
| oiaohm | I wish I would stop swap the a and e in that. reprap | Nov 06 21:22 |
| fewa | Chips_B_Malroy, at the prodding of the elites in business | Nov 06 21:22 |
| oiaohm | http://reprap.org/bin/view/Main/WebHome | Nov 06 21:23 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: WebHome < Main < Reprap .::. Size~: 19.27 KB | Nov 06 21:23 |
| oiaohm | Make it possiable to have a small factory in every home. | Nov 06 21:23 |
| fewa | Chips_B_Malroy, _not_ the populous | Nov 06 21:23 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Fewa> we do not have direct elections on things like NAFTA here, we have a respesentative form of gov | Nov 06 21:23 |
| fewa | Chips_B_Malroy, where the representatives do not represent their constituents | Nov 06 21:23 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | fewa> yes | Nov 06 21:24 |
| fewa | Chips_B_Malroy, so don't pretend they do | Nov 06 21:24 |
| oiaohm | fewa: people have voted with there feat without thinking. | Nov 06 21:24 |
| fewa | <Chips_B_Malroy> fewa> they did consult the people | Nov 06 21:24 |
| fewa | they did not | Nov 06 21:24 |
| oiaohm | Ie we want cheeper | Nov 06 21:24 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | they repersent those who put them in power, those who contribute to re-election campaigns | Nov 06 21:24 |
| fewa | oiaohm, not really | Nov 06 21:24 |
| oiaohm | We don't care if its imported or not. | Nov 06 21:25 |
| oiaohm | Really fewa | Nov 06 21:25 |
| fewa | oiaohm, MSFT is more expensive | Nov 06 21:25 |
| oiaohm | Yet when Linux was on the table it was a sell out fewa | Nov 06 21:25 |
| fewa | oiaohm, you can never make change like that | Nov 06 21:25 |
| fewa | oiaohm, you have people that have to either eat or not | Nov 06 21:25 |
| fewa | so they buy what is cheaper | Nov 06 21:25 |
| fewa | you have to have orrganization to get the system to work | Nov 06 21:26 |
| oiaohm | And by doing that the system gets worse for them fewa | Nov 06 21:26 |
| oiaohm | Less people locally having jobs. | Nov 06 21:26 |
| fewa | oiaohm, you cant expect them to do anything else | Nov 06 21:26 |
| oiaohm | Due to less money. | Nov 06 21:26 |
| fewa | what you should expect, is that laws are made to create balance | Nov 06 21:26 |
| oiaohm | No fewa people don't think threw the effect of there money. | Nov 06 21:26 |
| fewa | and to support self-interest | Nov 06 21:26 |
| fewa | oiaohm, yes they do | Nov 06 21:27 |
| oiaohm | Most don't. | Nov 06 21:27 |
| fewa | oiaohm, they just cant afford to think about secondary effect | Nov 06 21:27 |
| oiaohm | Its one of these things cheeper now. | Nov 06 21:27 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Lie mode on | Nov 06 21:27 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Ganhei o euromilhoes CRL!!!!!!!111111!!!!!1111!!!!11!!!!111!!!111!!!!1 | Nov 06 21:27 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Lie Mode off | Nov 06 21:27 | |
| fewa | they are thinking quite a bit about primary effects | Nov 06 21:27 |
| oiaohm | In in future they will be about to afford less. | Nov 06 21:27 |
| fewa | but those secondary effects have to be mad e collectively | Nov 06 21:27 |
| oiaohm | This has gone around many times. | Nov 06 21:27 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | fewa> "less people having jobs" by this I guess you mean good jobs? This is why our economy, IMO, is not going to bounce back quickly this time, its now a service economy | Nov 06 21:28 |
| oiaohm | Until today they don't have an option any more fewa | Nov 06 21:28 |
| oiaohm | Because the rot is too deep. | Nov 06 21:28 |
| fewa | meh | Nov 06 21:28 |
| fewa | there is all sorts of inovation in the US | Nov 06 21:28 |
| fewa | all sorts of good idea | Nov 06 21:28 |
| oiaohm | It did not start as a primry effect. | Nov 06 21:28 |
| fewa | lots of infrastructure | Nov 06 21:28 |
| oiaohm | Think after world war 2 fewa | Nov 06 21:28 |
| fewa | slight changes in policy can do great things | Nov 06 21:29 |
| oiaohm | You could affored basucally everything local. | Nov 06 21:29 |
| fewa | oiaohm, globalization is good | Nov 06 21:29 |
| fewa | there is nothing wrong with it | Nov 06 21:29 |
| oiaohm | That is how long the rot is going on. | Nov 06 21:29 |
| fewa | it just have to be a good type of globalization | Nov 06 21:29 |
| fewa | cant be a bid to the most destitute positions | Nov 06 21:29 |
| oiaohm | globalization is bad if its not full globalization. | Nov 06 21:29 |
| fewa | the places with the least responsibility | Nov 06 21:29 |
| oiaohm | Ie wages are not globalized | Nov 06 21:29 |
| fewa | <oiaohm> globalization is bad if its not full globalization. | Nov 06 21:29 |
| fewa | yes | Nov 06 21:30 |
| fewa | exactly | Nov 06 21:30 |
| fewa | well | Nov 06 21:30 |
| fewa | <oiaohm> Ie wages are not globalized | Nov 06 21:30 |
| fewa | not really | Nov 06 21:30 |
| fewa | you cant focus on that as a primary | Nov 06 21:30 |
| oiaohm | Fairly globalized fewa | Nov 06 21:30 |
| fewa | thats why the corps want focus on | Nov 06 21:30 |
| oiaohm | If you can pay someone 1 cent per hour. | Nov 06 21:30 |
| fewa | they want price pressure on everyone | Nov 06 21:30 |
| oiaohm | And you have to pay 10 dollars else where. | Nov 06 21:30 |
| fewa | to destroy living conditions | Nov 06 21:30 |
| fewa | oiaohm, you need a global minimum wage | Nov 06 21:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | M$ has to keep the stock price up right now through the next two quarters. As have of Festers wealth is in stocks, and they are trying to dump stock now, while the price is still up | Nov 06 21:31 |
| fewa | based on cost of living indices | Nov 06 21:31 |
| oiaohm | What happens fewa | Nov 06 21:31 |
| oiaohm | the area with 10 dollar wage gets no employeement. | Nov 06 21:31 |
| fewa | and you need organization to avoid supporting places with horrible human rights records | Nov 06 21:31 |
| fewa | oiaohm, freedom of movement helps alot | Nov 06 21:32 |
| oiaohm | The area with 1 cent wage gets stacks of sick people. | Nov 06 21:32 |
| fewa | anyways ill be back later | Nov 06 21:32 |
| oiaohm | due to regulations on conditions not being as good. | Nov 06 21:32 |
| fewa | this discussion is good | Nov 06 21:32 |
| oiaohm | Wage and conditions not being global are major problems. | Nov 06 21:32 |
| fewa | oiaohm, yep | Nov 06 21:33 |
| fewa | thats why unions are global | Nov 06 21:33 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ha. Kaspersky seems more obsessed with sci-fi artwork than actual function. http://ping.fm/Laf2w | Nov 06 21:33 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Kaspersky intros Anti-Virus for Mac | MacNN .::. Size~: 119.55 KB | Nov 06 21:33 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: MS is displacing anti-virus companies. | Nov 06 21:34 |
| schestowitz | KDE4 for netbooks requires more work, still: Ubuntu 9.10 (karmic Koala) on Netbooks - Part 3 (Kubuntu Netbook) < http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,10014384o-2000498448b,00.htm > | Nov 06 21:34 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Community on ZDNet UK .::. Size~: 121.68 KB | Nov 06 21:34 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: I know | Nov 06 21:34 |
| fewa | but not by actually doing anything about iruses..... | Nov 06 21:34 |
| schestowitz | Go Microsoft! | Nov 06 21:34 |
| schestowitz | They should also displace OEMs | Nov 06 21:34 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Store | Nov 06 21:34 |
| schestowitz | Will drive them RIGHT out of dominance on desktop | Nov 06 21:35 |
| schestowitz | HP could do good with KDE4 | Nov 06 21:35 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. Curtis: "I think we could all be running Microsoft Linux...I sent an e-mail to Steve Ballmer about this and he said he wasn't interested...Microsoft could very easily dominate the Linux market if they wanted to." | Nov 06 21:35 |
| oiaohm | Good thing lot of those companies behind anti-viruses were the same ones that made early Windows usable. schestowitz | Nov 06 21:35 |
| schestowitz | I seem to have interrupted you | Nov 06 21:35 |
| schestowitz | Not intentional | Nov 06 21:36 |
| schestowitz | Windows OS = the GlobalisatiOS | Nov 06 21:36 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | still, M$ could make a computer with windows on it, that works on the Mac model with and DRM EFI chip on it, or just licence it out, to make a niche product. Its why I hope pystar wins | Nov 06 21:36 |
| schestowitz | "MAFIAA inside" | Nov 06 21:37 |
| schestowitz | For "premium content" | Nov 06 21:37 |
| schestowitz | "Enablement"... "PlaysForSure"... MSN Music [defunct] | Nov 06 21:37 |
| oiaohm | Chips_B_Malroy: what do you mean they already have. Trusted computing. | Nov 06 21:37 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ms could make their own "linux." But would have to use the kernel to do so, and its gpl. Therefore, all the software for it is mostly as well, so I don't see that happening. | Nov 06 21:38 |
| schestowitz | GPL Windows would be like Symbian | Nov 06 21:38 |
| schestowitz | Heavy. | Nov 06 21:38 |
| schestowitz | Unattractive | Nov 06 21:38 |
| schestowitz | Controlled by mostly one company (Nokia) | Nov 06 21:38 |
| schestowitz | Losing market shae | Nov 06 21:38 |
| schestowitz | ENjoying previously-acquired market share that erodes | Nov 06 21:38 |
| oiaohm | Chips_B_Malroy: Xbox360 what do you think that is. MS own PC with everyone locked out. | Nov 06 21:39 |
| schestowitz | WHose main holder sees profit stagnation panickly | Nov 06 21:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | a BSD or Darwin kernel ? Maybe, but I think BSD changed some of their licence to prevent what Apple did, I could be wrong on that. | Nov 06 21:39 |
| oiaohm | Nop anyone could repeat what apple did with BSD Chips_B_Malroy | Nov 06 21:39 |
| oiaohm | Apple releasing the source code of Darwin was only niceness. | Nov 06 21:40 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | oiaohm> I think we are saying the same thing here basically from two differnet angles | Nov 06 21:40 |
| oiaohm | I see it from different angle. | Nov 06 21:40 |
| oiaohm | PS3 Xbox360 and Wii are three prototypes. | Nov 06 21:41 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I would look more for M$ to buy a unix company | Nov 06 21:41 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | than to touch linux | Nov 06 21:41 |
| oiaohm | All three are to test the design of drm controls. | Nov 06 21:41 |
| oiaohm | MS already did buy a Unix company Chips_B_Malroy | Nov 06 21:42 |
| oiaohm | It was a flop. | Nov 06 21:42 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes, but they don't own it now | Nov 06 21:42 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | agreed | Nov 06 21:42 |
| oiaohm | MS working with Novel is basically proxy. | Nov 06 21:43 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I am a bit concerned where the copyrights end up on unix sco or Novell | Nov 06 21:43 |
| oiaohm | Not a issue Chips_B_Malroy | Nov 06 21:43 |
| *[H]omer has quit (Connection timed out) | Nov 06 21:44 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its not as far as lines of code | Nov 06 21:44 |
| oiaohm | SUN/Orcale has a licence with both SCO and Novell that what ever they release is protected. | Nov 06 21:44 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | linux does not impose on unix | Nov 06 21:44 |
| oiaohm | So just respawn Linux from them and go on our way. | Nov 06 21:44 |
| *stefanc has quit ("Leaving") | Nov 06 21:44 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | what I do not want is for MS to buy those from Novell | Nov 06 21:44 |
| oiaohm | They are useless | Nov 06 21:45 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I think it would be bad for all of us if MS gets back into the unix game | Nov 06 21:45 |
| oiaohm | SUN wrote the agrreement with both in such away any source code released even if altered from SUN is protected. | Nov 06 21:45 |
| oiaohm | From attack. | Nov 06 21:45 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | as some of their crapware at that point might run on unix and infect it | Nov 06 21:45 |
| oiaohm | SCO tried to weasle out of that agreement. | Nov 06 21:46 |
| oiaohm | Note before the SCO /IBM battle that lead to Novell/SCO battle SUN had already taken out the threat. | Nov 06 21:46 |
| *[H]omer (n=[H]omer@rotterdam.perfect-privacy.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 06 21:46 | |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to [H]omer | Nov 06 21:46 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | agreed, the SCO case has mostly if not completely shown that Linux does not infringe | Nov 06 21:46 |
| oiaohm | Even if it does it not a issue. | Nov 06 21:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | that is not my issue with M$ getting a unix, linux, or BSD distro | Nov 06 21:47 |
| oiaohm | Minor distribution are Linux source gets shipped in from SUN. | Nov 06 21:47 |
| oiaohm | Or Orcale | Nov 06 21:47 |
| oiaohm | Note GPL forces them to release the source code. | Nov 06 21:47 |
| oiaohm | And anyone aquiring the source from them is magically covered by the SUN aggreements. | Nov 06 21:48 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | only that they might turn out equally horridus stuff like IE full of spyware that at that point would be easy to port or use in any other linux distro | Nov 06 21:48 |
| oiaohm | IE has run on UNIX. | Nov 06 21:48 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I know | Nov 06 21:48 |
| oiaohm | MS just decides not to produce it. | Nov 06 21:48 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | IE4linux | Nov 06 21:49 |
| oiaohm | No native binary. | Nov 06 21:49 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | for one | Nov 06 21:49 |
| oiaohm | IE4Linux is inside wine. | Nov 06 21:49 |
| oiaohm | MS has produced native IE binaries at different times. | Nov 06 21:49 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it also used to be on a website | Nov 06 21:49 |
| oiaohm | They produced Unix binarys to try to prop up Unix from failure to Linux. | Nov 06 21:50 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | IE was just an example | Nov 06 21:50 |
| oiaohm | I wonder if MS will do the same for novel | Nov 06 21:50 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | As far as Novell, I hope that IBM will buy them | Nov 06 21:51 |
| oiaohm | Really I hope IBM and other pick over Novell bones. | Nov 06 21:51 |
| oiaohm | Not exactly aquire them. | Nov 06 21:52 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | The biggest downside I see to IBM buying Novell is that IBM has been almost a partner with Red Hat | Nov 06 21:52 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and it would almost put them (IBM) in competition with Red Hat, unless they gave up the server port of Suse | Nov 06 21:53 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | But I do believe Miguel's and Mono days would be numbered, if IBM bought Novell | Nov 06 21:54 |
| *krenso (n=krenso@91.146.240.107.ip.abpl.pl) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 06 21:55 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Well back from a challenging couple of days at work... Now got the weekend off... | Nov 06 21:55 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Suse could be forked? | Nov 06 21:56 |
| MinceR | sure it could, but why? it sucks. | Nov 06 21:56 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | MinceR> agreed | Nov 06 21:56 |
| oiaohm | IBM is fairly much netural. | Nov 06 21:57 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: not simple | Nov 06 21:57 |
| oiaohm | They work on debian redhat and even give patches to opensuse. | Nov 06 21:57 |
| schestowitz | Notes-GroupWise | Nov 06 21:57 |
| schestowitz | All sorts of little conflicts | Nov 06 21:57 |
| schestowitz | I did a joke about it | Nov 06 21:58 |
| oiaohm | Note IBM has there own OS AIX. | Nov 06 21:58 |
| schestowitz | !google bob satire ibm novell | Nov 06 21:58 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - IBM in Negotiations to Acquire Novell | Boycott Novell | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/31/ibm-to-acquire-novell/ | Nov 06 21:58 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Linux Foundation goes from Novell to IBM CTO | Open Source | ZDNet.com | http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/%3Fp%3D3208 | Nov 06 21:58 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Red Hat, Dell unveil JBoss OEM deal, IBM enlists Novell's help ... | http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/%3Fp%3D1296 | Nov 06 21:58 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Red, Green, Blue | Blog | Bob Sutor | http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-open/%3Fp%3D2596 | Nov 06 21:58 |
| schestowitz | http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/11/crunchpad-alive/ | Nov 06 21:58 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Calling CrunchPad: Is Anybody Home? | Gadget Lab | Wired.com .::. Size~: 72.25 KB | Nov 06 21:58 |
| schestowitz | Arington fail. | Nov 06 21:58 |
| schestowitz | *Arr | Nov 06 21:58 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | IBM is an interesting company | Nov 06 21:58 |
| oiaohm | So adding another OS really would not change IBM lack of presure to support SUSE. | Nov 06 21:58 |
| oiaohm | Or redhat | Nov 06 21:58 |
| oiaohm | IBM wants to sell user Support contract. | Nov 06 21:59 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | AIX is licenced through SCO | Nov 06 21:59 |
| schestowitz | This would simplify, consolidate SCO litigation | Nov 06 21:59 |
| oiaohm | No Chips_B_Malroy | Nov 06 21:59 |
| schestowitz | NOpe | Nov 06 21:59 |
| schestowitz | SCO does not own UNIX | Nov 06 21:59 |
| schestowitz | It's still at stake | Nov 06 21:59 |
| oiaohm | Large sections of AIX are IBM own code. | Nov 06 21:59 |
| schestowitz | After overruling | Nov 06 21:59 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | IBM does more than just sell the support contract for linux (red hat) systems | Nov 06 21:59 |
| oiaohm | Items like RCU SCO wanted access to that IBM was giving to Linux. | Nov 06 22:00 |
| oiaohm | Chips_B_Malroy: support contracts on the hardware. | Nov 06 22:00 |
| oiaohm | People will not buy the hardware if you don't provide the OS they want. | Nov 06 22:00 |
| oiaohm | While people want Redhat. Redhat will not have problems with IBM> | Nov 06 22:00 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | IBM setups Linux systems (mostly Red Hat) for many large fortune 500 companies | Nov 06 22:00 |
| schestowitz | http://gigaom.com/2009/11/05/hermit-nation-does-tech-boost-social-isolation/ "We’re all familiar with the stereotype of the tech cave dweller, perusing a list of arcane Linux commands on a lonely Saturday night.." | Nov 06 22:01 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Hermit Nation: Does Tech Boost Social Isolation? .::. Size~: 45.21 KB | Nov 06 22:01 |
| *_goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 06 22:02 | |
| schestowitz | This a nice item... runs Linux: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2009/11/mavizens-electric-motorcycle-has-built-in-wi-fi-linux/ | Nov 06 22:02 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I forget the president of ibm that said "that ibm always keeps it promise to its custermors," This was used as the reason to release OS/2 after it was no longer worthwhile | Nov 06 22:02 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Mavizens Electric Motorcycle Has Built-In Wi-Fi, Linux | Gizmodo Australia .::. Size~: 37.18 KB | Nov 06 22:02 |
| oiaohm | I forget to tell you about http://www.artificial3d.com/omega/ They are using blenders video processing engine to do stop motion video production schestowitz. Yep not everything blender is about 3d. | Nov 06 22:02 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: omega stop motion project .::. Size~: 28.69 KB | Nov 06 22:03 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | my point is, that while IBM has done many things badly, it is a better company than M$ | Nov 06 22:03 |
| _goblin | hi all.... | Nov 06 22:03 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Hi Goblin | Nov 06 22:03 |
| oiaohm | Chips_B_Malroy: IBM is a trustable company. It goes against there policy to go around back stabing people. | Nov 06 22:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | did u see my graphini on your site today? | Nov 06 22:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | TPM? | Nov 06 22:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I mean trusted computing module? | Nov 06 22:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | by trustable? | Nov 06 22:05 |
| MinceR | treacherous platform module | Nov 06 22:05 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes, they have good and bad points | Nov 06 22:05 |
| oiaohm | TPM by its base design how it was designed to work is good. | Nov 06 22:06 |
| schestowitz | BTW, some have noticed that Microsoft's puppet NPD has found a way to please its master by shuffling and manufacturing some numbers, no matter what they actually are | Nov 06 22:06 |
| oiaohm | TPM was designed to be in the hands of end users. | Nov 06 22:06 |
| oiaohm | Media companies and MS kinda want control in there hands. | Nov 06 22:06 |
| schestowitz | _goblin is a judge :-) | Nov 06 22:06 |
| schestowitz | ...[of character] | Nov 06 22:06 |
| _goblin | lol | Nov 06 22:06 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: you didn't miss much on those internets | Nov 06 22:06 |
| _goblin | not a judge but you are probably getting close... | Nov 06 22:07 |
| schestowitz | Vista 7 is gone from headlines | Nov 06 22:07 |
| oiaohm | You are aware the Linux kernel has TPM support MinceR | Nov 06 22:07 |
| schestowitz | And Linux does well as usual | Nov 06 22:07 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | MS is a media company and a news company as well | Nov 06 22:07 |
| MinceR | nope, TPM's base design contains at least one unacceptable element | Nov 06 22:07 |
| schestowitz | You saw that netbook %32 already | Nov 06 22:07 |
| MinceR | the Endorsement Key | Nov 06 22:07 |
| MinceR | there's absolutely no benign purpose for that to exist. | Nov 06 22:07 |
| schestowitz | 32% market sharw | Nov 06 22:07 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: i'm aware of it and i don't use it | Nov 06 22:07 |
| MinceR | anything a TPM could do, a USB token can do better. | Nov 06 22:08 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, but old news | Nov 06 22:08 |
| schestowitz | BN has a post about it to, which we made together remember? | Nov 06 22:08 |
| schestowitz | TPM is s/t IBM did in Linux in 2007 or so | Nov 06 22:08 |
| schestowitz | Hush-hush | Nov 06 22:08 |
| oiaohm | IBM sees TPM as a way of control virus risks. | Nov 06 22:09 |
| schestowitz | http://www.eeejournal.com/2009/11/netbook-operating-system-linux-vs.html | Nov 06 22:09 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: EEE Journal for Netbooks and Mini Laptops: Netbook Operating System Linux vs Windows: Netbooks, EEE PC, MSI Wind, Aspire One and Akoya Resources. .::. Size~: 102.31 KB | Nov 06 22:09 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: I see Linux as a way to control IBM, the virus risk | Nov 06 22:09 |
| oiaohm | Nothing would be worse than a virus embeding in bios MinceR | Nov 06 22:09 |
| schestowitz | ;-) | Nov 06 22:09 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | they also tryed to peddle TPM as "a way to protect" against viruses and malware, which is bogus | Nov 06 22:09 |
| MinceR | and how does the TPM prevent that? | Nov 06 22:10 |
| MinceR | it doesn't. | Nov 06 22:10 |
| schestowitz | It lets the adults check | Nov 06 22:10 |
| schestowitz | As in, it checks permissions remotely | Nov 06 22:10 |
| MinceR | Remote Attestation doesn't help you if the BIOS is compromised. | Nov 06 22:10 |
| schestowitz | And says, "I can't let you download this" | Nov 06 22:10 |
| oiaohm | It can reduce the risk prevent unknown things from getting running to do it MinceR | Nov 06 22:10 |
| MinceR | also, it's useless anyway. | Nov 06 22:10 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | guess we all had the same idea on tcm and virusese | Nov 06 22:10 |
| schestowitz | Businesses might deploy Linux desktops with TPM | Nov 06 22:10 |
| schestowitz | They will not be given choice | Nov 06 22:10 |
| schestowitz | ANd then certification will come from the "master" FSF warns about | Nov 06 22:10 |
| schestowitz | Like Kindle and HypePhone shop | Nov 06 22:11 |
| schestowitz | Remote deletion and all | Nov 06 22:11 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: how? | Nov 06 22:11 |
| schestowitz | Tso shills for IBM about it, I think | Nov 06 22:11 |
| schestowitz | He bashes Debian and freedom in Linux | Nov 06 22:11 |
| oiaohm | TPM is designed to protect bios and core of OS from being replaced MinceR | Nov 06 22:11 |
| oiaohm | Without user knowing. | Nov 06 22:12 |
| schestowitz | It's not nice when you s/w gets blown off cause Jobs has had a bad kidney day or Jeff Bozo decides 1984 is bad for you | Nov 06 22:12 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it was not just IBM involved in TCM people | Nov 06 22:12 |
| oiaohm | Of course is only 1 part to make system hardened MinceR | Nov 06 22:12 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | If memory serves me right, several other companies were, including of course, Microsoft | Nov 06 22:12 |
| oiaohm | Now that part used wrong is bad. | Nov 06 22:12 |
| schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy: it's a consortion, a conpiracy of companies | Nov 06 22:13 |
| schestowitz | Like CIsco too, IIRC | Nov 06 22:13 |
| oiaohm | TPM is not a problem as long as you control it. | Nov 06 22:13 |
| schestowitz | Intel... | Nov 06 22:13 |
| schestowitz | Viv... | Nov 06 22:13 |
| oiaohm | And its not controlling you. | Nov 06 22:13 |
| schestowitz | They keep quite about it | Nov 06 22:13 |
| schestowitz | It's in the chips already | Nov 06 22:13 |
| schestowitz | In many ways, like ATCA.... | Nov 06 22:13 |
| oiaohm | Problem with really powerful tech there are double sided swords. | Nov 06 22:13 |
| schestowitz | "..Quiet, no-one will notice till it's too late..." | Nov 06 22:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | if you think that M$ will not take advantage of TPM in newer version of Windows, well, forget it | Nov 06 22:14 |
| oiaohm | One side can kill you one side can save you. | Nov 06 22:14 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: wait till crackers take over the TPM | Nov 06 22:14 |
| schestowitz | See UAC for details | Nov 06 22:14 |
| schestowitz | euraran said it obstructed him from CLEANING a PC | Nov 06 22:14 |
| schestowitz | TPM=Contro | Nov 06 22:14 |
| schestowitz | But whose? | Nov 06 22:14 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | M$ would use TCM to do many things we would not find ethical | Nov 06 22:14 |
| oiaohm | IBM never designed the TPM chips to be unblockable to direct wire bipass. | Nov 06 22:15 |
| schestowitz | TPM=babysitter | Nov 06 22:15 |
| oiaohm | Now if TPM starts being put inside processor then we have problems. | Nov 06 22:15 |
| schestowitz | As if to say, let someone 'reposible' decide for the user | Nov 06 22:15 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: IBM is not all ethical either | Nov 06 22:15 |
| schestowitz | Don't forget their crimes | Nov 06 22:15 |
| schestowitz | Of which there are many | Nov 06 22:15 |
| schestowitz | Even now | Nov 06 22:15 |
| schestowitz | !google vp ibm coruption | Nov 06 22:15 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - DEFECTS FIXED AND KNOWN DEFECTS IN IBM INFORMIX DYNAMIC SERVER ... | http://www-01.ibm.com/software/data/informix/pubs/library/notes/relnotes/C170114.html | Nov 06 22:15 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Star Wars: Empire at War -- Gold Pack: Information from Answers.com | http://www.answers.com/topic/star-wars-empire-at-war-gold-pack | Nov 06 22:15 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - IBM in, Epixtar out? | Pinoy Tech Blog - The Philippines' Premier ... | http://www.pinoytechblog.com/archives/ibm-in-epixtar-out | Nov 06 22:15 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - A star-studded NRB conference - E-Bangladesh | http://www.e-bangladesh.org/2007/12/14/a-star-studded-nrb-conference/ | Nov 06 22:15 |
| oiaohm | IBM is not stupid schestowitz | Nov 06 22:15 |
| schestowitz | #2 man in IBM | Nov 06 22:16 |
| schestowitz | Palmisano heir | Nov 06 22:16 |
| oiaohm | If IBM gave MS a system local could not bipass. | Nov 06 22:16 |
| jose_X | oiaohm, i read up a bit on the irc log where you talk about md5 collision | Nov 06 22:16 |
| schestowitz | and IBM is a LOBBYISY for SOFTWARE PATENTS | Nov 06 22:16 |
| jose_X | that would be something extremely unexpected. | Nov 06 22:16 |
| schestowitz | An offshoring offender | Nov 06 22:16 |
| jose_X | did you verify the bits? | Nov 06 22:16 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | IBM is about business software, as such they never really wanted the average desktop user | Nov 06 22:16 |
| schestowitz | I don't trust IBM, I trust entities like FSF | Nov 06 22:16 |
| oiaohm | Yep jose_X | Nov 06 22:16 |
| jose_X | and they were different!? | Nov 06 22:16 |
| oiaohm | yep. | Nov 06 22:17 |
| oiaohm | Same md5 and same size jose_X | Nov 06 22:17 |
| oiaohm | Different bits. | Nov 06 22:17 |
| MinceR | it can't do that | Nov 06 22:17 |
| MinceR | all it can do is prove that you're running one particular version of all software, as long as your EK hasn't been compromised | Nov 06 22:17 |
| MinceR | which is a useless claim | Nov 06 22:17 |
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| *MinceR (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 06 22:17 | |
| jose_X | so doing a different hash yields a different result, right? | Nov 06 22:17 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | if say OS/2 had won the OS wars, if could be very much more expensive than say windows | Nov 06 22:17 |
| jose_X | i find this example intriguing and surely many others would too | Nov 06 22:17 |
| MinceR | actually i don't remember what guarantees that the whole boot process hasn't just been restarted in a VM | Nov 06 22:18 |
| jose_X | if this was once in a lifetime situation then no prob | Nov 06 22:18 |
| jose_X | otherwise perhaps, as you mentioned, debian should not rely on md5 by itself | Nov 06 22:18 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | IBM in some ways tryed to control the IBM pc in ways similar to Intel | Nov 06 22:18 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: could you run phIRCe? | Nov 06 22:18 |
| jose_X | calculating two or more presumably independent hashes should solve the problem | Nov 06 22:18 |
| schestowitz | I want to see if YouTuve URL work from your IP | Nov 06 22:18 |
| trmanco | no really | Nov 06 22:18 |
| jose_X | mathematically speaking at least | Nov 06 22:18 |
| schestowitz | *Youtube URLs | Nov 06 22:18 |
| trmanco | not* | Nov 06 22:18 |
| oiaohm | sha1 does turn up different on this file. But I have seen sha1 hits at different times. jose_X | Nov 06 22:18 |
| oiaohm | Problem is a hash is a hash jose_X | Nov 06 22:19 |
| oiaohm | There will always be failures the question is when and where. | Nov 06 22:19 |
| jose_X | yeah, but how many bits are we talking about? | Nov 06 22:19 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but at least, I can say this for IBM, in some ways, those sometimes at the top, seemed to have some eithics, where I have never been able to say that about M$, ever | Nov 06 22:19 |
| jose_X | how many times have you executed the hash | Nov 06 22:19 |
| *amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04 | Nov 06 22:19 | |
| oiaohm | About 1 meg is out in the kubuntu image. I suspect more could be made out and it would still pass jose_X | Nov 06 22:20 |
| jose_X | maybe md5sum is broken in that it gives value if the last chunk is different' | Nov 06 22:20 |
| oiaohm | We are not talking about 1 or 2 bits here or there. | Nov 06 22:20 |
| jose_X | maybe one download cut off bits at the end or altered them somehow | Nov 06 22:20 |
| oiaohm | Its at the start. | Nov 06 22:21 |
| jose_X | so start is diff but rest is same> | Nov 06 22:21 |
| oiaohm | I suspect the md5 calc as gone south has it hashing. | Nov 06 22:21 |
| oiaohm | Yep. | Nov 06 22:21 |
| oiaohm | Not exactly 100 percent at the start. | Nov 06 22:21 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | New Generation of Netbooks: $199 and $299, Eight Hour Battery & Sexy Design http://www.notebooks.com/2009/01/07/new-generation-of-netbooks-199-and-299-eight-hour-battery-sexy-design/ | Nov 06 22:21 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: New Generation of Netbooks: $199 and $299, Eight Hour Battery & Sexy Design | Notebooks.com .::. Size~: 86.23 KB | Nov 06 22:21 |
| oiaohm | But its near to the start of the image jose_X | Nov 06 22:21 |
| schestowitz | The software I use the most (other than GNU/linux and KDE) has a new version coming so soon (SO excited!): http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10391705-92.html | Nov 06 22:21 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Near-final Thunderbird 3 due next week | Business Tech - CNET News .::. Size~: 92.49 KB | Nov 06 22:21 |
| oiaohm | I have to see if I can cut the start fully full and it still work. jose_X | Nov 06 22:22 |
| oiaohm | I suspect it rolling the md5 in a way it cleans the hashing part way threw the image and starts over. | Nov 06 22:22 |
| jose_X | or also consider changing some bits around to see if you can still get same md5 | Nov 06 22:23 |
| jose_X | that appears to be a serious flaw and I would be more likely to think it's in the sw than in the algorithm | Nov 06 22:23 |
| oiaohm | That is what I am planing to do. | Nov 06 22:23 |
| schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1561372/linux-king-netbooks | Nov 06 22:23 |
| schestowitz | "What will be critical for Linux is the rise of netbooks that run on ARM processors. As the sales of these increase, Orr predicts Linux will overtake Windows on netbooks by 2013." | Nov 06 22:23 |
| oiaohm | Attacks against MD5 have worked the same way jose_X | Nov 06 22:23 |
| oiaohm | Ie maths attacks against MD5 | Nov 06 22:23 |
| oiaohm | This would be the first major case where it happened naturally. | Nov 06 22:24 |
| jose_X | i don't know the details of the attacks, but it seems odd that a random problem would result in a failure | Nov 06 22:24 |
| jose_X | maybe i'll look more into this. you should consider bringing this case up on a mailing list.. i'd like to know how that turns out if you do follow up | Nov 06 22:25 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it could happen sooner, lets see if ARM has problems, even if it does, would expect it to improve and get faster | Nov 06 22:25 |
| jose_X | the ideal hash model is a great one | Nov 06 22:26 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ChromeOS on ARM with Google money behind it could be unstoppable even in the USA | Nov 06 22:26 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: http://www.artificial3d.com/omega/ nice! | Nov 06 22:27 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | if google does it right | Nov 06 22:27 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: omega stop motion project .::. Size~: 28.68 KB | Nov 06 22:27 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: it ain't new ;-) | Nov 06 22:28 |
| jose_X | omega uses blender right.. | Nov 06 22:28 |
| oiaohm | MD5 collision generator exist jose_X. To intentally cause problem that I am seeing natural this time. | Nov 06 22:28 |
| oiaohm | Yep omega uses blender for the video processing jose_X | Nov 06 22:28 |
| jose_X | how did the extra copy arise? | Nov 06 22:29 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-169-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 06 22:29 | |
| jose_X | if you downloaded twice, perhaps the second time (maybe a diff mirror) inserted the failed binary on purpose | Nov 06 22:29 |
| oiaohm | Same mirror jose_X | Nov 06 22:29 |
| jose_X | but diff downloads right? | Nov 06 22:29 |
| jose_X | mirror could be compromised | Nov 06 22:30 |
| _Hicham_ | what did u download oiaohm ? | Nov 06 22:30 |
| oiaohm | It happens with the internet at times. | Nov 06 22:30 |
| jose_X | alternatively, maybe you downloaded once and burned twice | Nov 06 22:30 |
| jose_X | yeah, but unless the md5 collision space is pathetic, you should not randomly stumble upon this | Nov 06 22:30 |
| oiaohm | Not no all packets move cleanly threw the network sometimes there check sums fail to pick up damage. | Nov 06 22:30 |
| jose_X | how often do downloads fail.. i don't think frequently at all | Nov 06 22:30 |
| oiaohm | Lot more than you think jose_X | Nov 06 22:31 |
| _Hicham_ | yes, not that frequently for me | Nov 06 22:31 |
| jose_X | perhaps, but these are large binaries.. what % would you say has checksum fail (for you)? | Nov 06 22:31 |
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| oiaohm | Larger the binary higher the risk of checksum failure. | Nov 06 22:32 |
| oiaohm | That is a simple problem of checksums. | Nov 06 22:32 |
| jose_X | right, so if checksums hardly fail, that says packet corruption is rare | Nov 06 22:32 |
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| jose_X | by checksum i mean something like md5 that is presumed to work and covers the whole binary | Nov 06 22:32 |
| oiaohm | md5 has a limited number of bits. | Nov 06 22:33 |
| jose_X | if that succeeds, then the weaker tcp/ip/whatever checksums likely don't fail often | Nov 06 22:33 |
| oiaohm | That is what causes the collisions. | Nov 06 22:33 |
| MinceR | every hash algorithm has a limited number of bits | Nov 06 22:33 |
| jose_X | the lottery has a limited number of combinations but i still don't expect to win | Nov 06 22:33 |
| oiaohm | Mind you the check sums on the files inside the image also shows failure. | Nov 06 22:33 |
| oiaohm | Where the out side does not. | Nov 06 22:33 |
| jose_X | eg, 1 in 50 million or worse for some lotteries | Nov 06 22:33 |
| oiaohm | Problem here is if it turns out the md5 maths is resetting half way. | Nov 06 22:34 |
| jose_X | that can be for different reasons | Nov 06 22:34 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: to debunk FUD, find out what it is NPD is actually measuring | Nov 06 22:34 |
| oiaohm | That can happen to md5 | Nov 06 22:34 |
| schestowitz | They seem to be doing the usual work, as they did for Zune | Nov 06 22:34 |
| jose_X | what i'm interested in is if the bits were supposedly correct | Nov 06 22:34 |
| oiaohm | It means a section of the file is not being checked at all. | Nov 06 22:34 |
| jose_X | the inside files might have failed prior to being packaged.. maybe the wrong hash was used by the packager | Nov 06 22:34 |
| oiaohm | So you are just depending on the tcp/ip check sum to works. | Nov 06 22:34 |
| oiaohm | Not good idea. | Nov 06 22:35 |
| jose_X | of course not | Nov 06 22:35 |
| jose_X | i'm saying that is they checksum/hash that covers a wide area works and it is a good hash, then likely all the individual checksums worked | Nov 06 22:35 |
| oiaohm | That kind of binary was though to be that rare it would never be created. | Nov 06 22:35 |
| oiaohm | Nice point is the section that is taken out. | Nov 06 22:35 |
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| oiaohm | Is the bit that runs on the disk to check sum the contained files. | Nov 06 22:36 |
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| jose_X | i think we likely has a compromise or else the md5sum sw is broken | Nov 06 22:36 |
| jose_X | but i have not looked at attack details for md5 so i don't really know | Nov 06 22:36 |
| oiaohm | We have seen some compromises on ssl due to it. | Nov 06 22:36 |
| oiaohm | Reason why MD5 is not used there any more. | Nov 06 22:37 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: like you said two days ago, Microsoft uses discounts and other not-so-real-copies to pretend Vista 7 sells | Nov 06 22:37 |
| oiaohm | No hash is 100 percent solid. | Nov 06 22:37 |
| jose_X | schestowitz, i'll say something about that windows 7 thing a little later | Nov 06 22:38 |
| oiaohm | also be aware antivirus removing wrong files have also been been caused by hash collions. | Nov 06 22:38 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Roy, guessing that Jan 8th (friday) will be the perfect time for another batch of MS layoffs, although Jan 2nd would not be out of the question. | Nov 06 22:38 |
| oiaohm | There is too much faith put in hashs to work right jose_X | Nov 06 22:38 |
| oiaohm | They are nothing more than problitity. | Nov 06 22:39 |
| MinceR | indeed | Nov 06 22:39 |
| jose_X | again, unless the flaw is very large, it's different to accidentally fail vs to be compromised from an attack | Nov 06 22:39 |
| schestowitz | jose_X: thanks | Nov 06 22:39 |
| schestowitz | I haven't looked deep into it, but Microsoft is lying again | Nov 06 22:40 |
| jose_X | unless the flaw of the algorithm.... | Nov 06 22:40 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | somehow Mini's 20,000 number, will probably be the number, and as such they have about 6 or 7 thousand more to go | Nov 06 22:40 |
| _goblin | Goodnight all | Nov 06 22:40 |
| _goblin | getting old... | Nov 06 22:40 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Im shattered...thought I could be online....I must be getting old, the last two days at work have taken it out of me..bed for me..night all. | Nov 06 22:40 | |
| _goblin | thought I could stay up a bit.... | Nov 06 22:40 |
| schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy: MSFT offers jobs security still... if you're in India | Nov 06 22:40 |
| schestowitz | *sob | Nov 06 22:40 |
| schestowitz | *job | Nov 06 22:40 |
| _Hicham_ | i am interested | Nov 06 22:40 |
| _Hicham_ | i would like to work with Miguel | Nov 06 22:41 |
| _goblin | take care all....see ya tomorrow.... | Nov 06 22:41 |
| *_goblin has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Nov 06 22:41 | |
| _Hicham_ | and rebase Windows on Mono | Nov 06 22:41 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: it's just a Microsoft subsiary | Nov 06 22:41 |
| schestowitz | Handed over to NOVL | Nov 06 22:41 |
| _Hicham_ | instead of .NET | Nov 06 22:41 |
| schestowitz | Poor goblin | Nov 06 22:41 |
| schestowitz | Got back from work to crash on bed | Nov 06 22:41 |
| oiaohm | If something can be broken by attack sooner or latter it happens by bad luck jose_X. | Nov 06 22:42 |
| _Hicham_ | I will add more holes to Internet Explorer | Nov 06 22:42 |
| _Hicham_ | he must have a hard work | Nov 06 22:42 |
| schestowitz | to whom? | Nov 06 22:42 |
| schestowitz | The FBI loves holes | Nov 06 22:42 |
| schestowitz | !google cipav | Nov 06 22:42 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Computer and Internet Protocol Address Verifier - Wikipedia, the ... | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_and_Internet_Protocol_Address_Verifier | Nov 06 22:42 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - FBI CIPAV Spyware Snaring Extortionists and Hackers for Years | http://www.cgisecurity.com/2009/04/fbi-cipav-spyware-snaring-extortionists-and-hackers-for-years.html | Nov 06 22:42 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - FBI Spyware: How Does the CIPAV Work? — UPDATE | Threat Level ... | http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/07/fbi-spyware-how/ | Nov 06 22:42 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - What we know (now) about the FBI's CIPAV spyware - Computerworld | http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/190951/what_we_know_now_about_fbi_cipav_spyware | Nov 06 22:42 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | So what does M$ pay coders in India? One or Two us dollars an hour? Billy G needs the money, so India is the place | Nov 06 22:42 |
| jose_X | talking in generalities doesn't help too much here. | Nov 06 22:42 |
| jose_X | are we talking about 1 in 100 or 1 in 1 million | Nov 06 22:42 |
| schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy: Bill makes a lot of money in India | Nov 06 22:42 |
| schestowitz | Drug money | Nov 06 22:43 |
| schestowitz | Literally | Nov 06 22:43 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : IE is the only browser that allows u to execute shell commands on the client side | Nov 06 22:43 |
| schestowitz | Pharma patents | Nov 06 22:43 |
| schestowitz | And now he wants GM | Nov 06 22:43 |
| jose_X | just saying a chance exists can mean anything.. | Nov 06 22:43 |
| oiaohm | jose_X: how many files move around the world in any day. | Nov 06 22:43 |
| schestowitz | Monsanto | Nov 06 22:43 |
| _Hicham_ | it is a great browser | Nov 06 22:43 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | if anyone thinks that M$ is an "American" corporation, the move to India should dispell this | Nov 06 22:43 |
| jose_X | someone wins all lotteries | Nov 06 22:43 |
| *asdf_ has quit ("Page closed") | Nov 06 22:43 | |
| jose_X | the point is that this happens close to home so to speak | Nov 06 22:43 |
| _Hicham_ | what more will hackers need ? | Nov 06 22:43 |
| schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy: IBM too | Nov 06 22:43 |
| oiaohm | The checksum loto someone has to win it jose_X. | Nov 06 22:43 |
| schestowitz | They overlap workers who will be paid less | Nov 06 22:44 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : do u think that u can execute shell command from within a browser on linux ? | Nov 06 22:44 |
| schestowitz | And then made redundant | Nov 06 22:44 |
| jose_X | yes, but i never ever expect it to be me or someone close | Nov 06 22:44 |
| _Hicham_ | using javascript of course | Nov 06 22:44 |
| schestowitz | Having passed their skills and job duties | Nov 06 22:44 |
| jose_X | i first try to rule out a different sort of flaw instead of believe i got (un)lucky | Nov 06 22:44 |
| oiaohm | Note I have been downloading stuff over 15 years jose_X and never hit it. | Nov 06 22:44 |
| jose_X | extremely (un)lucky | Nov 06 22:44 |
| oiaohm | Running file mirrors and other things. | Nov 06 22:45 |
| schestowitz | !google Digital Tipping Point: Natasha Humphries on globalization | Nov 06 22:45 |
| oiaohm | I have done a lot to increase my risk. | Nov 06 22:45 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Home - Digital Tipping Point | http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/ | Nov 06 22:45 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Sue me first, Microsoft - Digital Tipping Point Wiki | http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/wiki/index.php%3Ftitle%3DSue_me_first%252C_Microsoft | Nov 06 22:45 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Internet Archive: Free Downloads: The Digital Tipping Point | http://www.archive.org/details/digitaltippingpoint | Nov 06 22:45 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Digital Tipping Point - Creative Commons | http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/10872 | Nov 06 22:45 |
| jose_X | but you must forgive me for taking note today | Nov 06 22:45 |
| schestowitz | Watch this for details: http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=mediatype%3Amovies%20AND%20collection%3Adigitaltippingpoint%20AND%20subject%3A%22Natasha%20Humphries%22 | Nov 06 22:45 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Internet Archive Search: mediatype:movies AND subject:"Natasha Humphries" .::. Size~: 49.08 KB | Nov 06 22:45 |
| jose_X | without reading more about how md5 might fail, i still believe if this happened it was not accidental | Nov 06 22:45 |
| oiaohm | I have also see a larger number of reports of kubuntu i386 images working as well. | Nov 06 22:46 |
| jose_X | of course, perhaps the flaw is significant and what you describe is not that rare of an occurrence | Nov 06 22:46 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Roy, yes, M$ cannot compete long term against free linux, so it moves to India gradually, to use cheap (sweat box labor) to compete with free | Nov 06 22:46 |
| jose_X | or perhaps i truly have just met a lottery winner!!!! | Nov 06 22:46 |
| oiaohm | If the md5 has hit its flaw. | Nov 06 22:46 |
| oiaohm | Programs like k3b depend on md5 to check the burnt disk jose_X | Nov 06 22:47 |
| jose_X | what do you mean by "kubuntu i386 images working as well" | Nov 06 22:47 |
| jose_X | do you mean failing this way? | Nov 06 22:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but at some point, if all the jobs go overseas, there will no be a middle class left here to buy M$ products | Nov 06 22:47 |
| jose_X | again, not knowing about the md5 prob, i would be more inclined to think sabotage | Nov 06 22:47 |
| oiaohm | md5 can loop. | Nov 06 22:47 |
| jose_X | this is particularly true if the generator is known publicly as you said it is | Nov 06 22:47 |
| oiaohm | That is the problem. | Nov 06 22:47 |
| jose_X | or i'd think the sw is broken | Nov 06 22:47 |
| oiaohm | Ie md5 collition event causes the section before the right pattent to be replacable with what ever. | Nov 06 22:48 |
| oiaohm | Without changing the md5 output. | Nov 06 22:48 |
| oiaohm | Its a faw in MD5 design. | Nov 06 22:48 |
| oiaohm | flaw | Nov 06 22:48 |
| jose_X | "before the right pattent" | Nov 06 22:48 |
| jose_X | ?? | Nov 06 22:48 |
| oiaohm | patern | Nov 06 22:48 |
| oiaohm | pattern | Nov 06 22:49 |
| oiaohm | Boy that word is giving me fun. | Nov 06 22:49 |
| jose_X | [btw, 128 bits is roughly 10 to the 13 which are horrible odds for winning the lottery] | Nov 06 22:50 |
| oiaohm | But events of those odds still happen. | Nov 06 22:50 |
| jose_X | again, i'd first try to rule out bad intent.. | Nov 06 22:51 |
| jose_X | since it appears it is straightforward to compromise the binaries | Nov 06 22:51 |
| oiaohm | Lot of distributions ship with md5 and sha1 so odds are even longer. | Nov 06 22:51 |
| jose_X | the point is that this happened to someone i know | Nov 06 22:52 |
| jose_X | most people don't even check so that makes it that much less likely to know about an incident | Nov 06 22:52 |
| oiaohm | I personally suspect the image is fine and it lucked out to be designed exactly like you do to create collision. | Nov 06 22:52 |
| oiaohm | To replace a section what ever you want and keep the file the same size. | Nov 06 22:53 |
| oiaohm | It had to happen to a file somewhere at some time. | Nov 06 22:53 |
| oiaohm | Hopefull we will never see it again. | Nov 06 22:53 |
| jose_X | "On 18 March 2006, Klima published an algorithm[12] that can find a collision within one minute on a single notebook computer, using a method he calls tunneling." | Nov 06 22:53 |
| jose_X | it's easy to create a bad file, as you said | Nov 06 22:54 |
| jose_X | but odds of 1 in over 1 trillion are not something i take lightly | Nov 06 22:54 |
| jose_X | it's much easier to believe bad intent than 1 in 1 trillion | Nov 06 22:54 |
| oiaohm | This does not appear to be bad intent. | Nov 06 22:54 |
| jose_X | i'm reading this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MD5 btw | Nov 06 22:55 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: MD5 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 73.24 KB | Nov 06 22:55 |
| oiaohm | This appears to be a file where the checksum is just failing to work correct. | Nov 06 22:55 |
| oiaohm | Ie not really checking the full file. | Nov 06 22:55 |
| jose_X | yeah but we aren't talking about a checksum with a space of 1 in 10 or 1 in 100 | Nov 06 22:55 |
| jose_X | the hash i believe is supposed to check the full file | Nov 06 22:55 |
| jose_X | if it doesn't, i think the md5sum would be broken | Nov 06 22:56 |
| oiaohm | Stuff like this could have happened a lot and gone not noticed. | Nov 06 22:56 |
| jose_X | oiaohm, without talking precise odds, we are wasting time | Nov 06 22:56 |
| oiaohm | There is nothing in md5sum to check if the sum is full file. | Nov 06 22:56 |
| oiaohm | Or if its reset half way threw. | Nov 06 22:56 |
| jose_X | i did not understand your last two comments | Nov 06 22:57 |
| oiaohm | [junk][reset pattern][check sum calc on this] | Nov 06 22:58 |
| jose_X | (btw, "through".. i read you make that mistake ;-) ) | Nov 06 22:58 |
| oiaohm | That kind of event can be forced. | Nov 06 22:58 |
| schestowitz | http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2009/11/05/the-trough-of-disillusionment-for-ubuntu/ | Nov 06 22:58 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Safe as Milk » Blog Archive » The trough of disillusionment for Ubuntu? .::. Size~: 26.95 KB | Nov 06 22:58 |
| jose_X | i understand, but that is a sw mistake | Nov 06 22:59 |
| schestowitz | "Reading this blog entry on Linux Magazine, the thought occurred to me that Ubuntu is making its way nicely along the path that new projects have travelled for many years. It is around the same place that Red Hat used to be around the time of Red Hat 7." | Nov 06 22:59 |
| jose_X | also it doesn't explain why the other copy was corrupt | Nov 06 22:59 |
| oiaohm | No its a md5 design misake. | Nov 06 22:59 |
| jose_X | it only says that if it was corrupt, then we might get a crash if the sw failed | Nov 06 22:59 |
| oiaohm | the md5 programs are design with that is so rare it will not happen. | Nov 06 22:59 |
| oiaohm | So don't even check for it happening. | Nov 06 22:59 |
| lordtoran | i made a nice chart in google charts, showing how "big" microsoft is :-) | Nov 06 22:59 |
| lordtoran | http://chart.apis.google.com/chart?cht=p3&chs=640x280&chtt=This+is+the+computer+market.+Microsoft+is+yellow.&chts=000000,20&chd=e:4QV4CW&chco=00cc00,008000,eeee00&chl=Microcontrollers|Embedded CPUs|Desktop CPUs | Nov 06 23:00 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 06 23:00 |
| jose_X | by accident or an attack? in other words, how does one "force a reset" | Nov 06 23:00 |
| oiaohm | Right pattent of data jose_X | Nov 06 23:00 |
| lordtoran | crap, it got truncated | Nov 06 23:00 |
| oiaohm | From that point it like starting from the begin of file all overa gain jose_X | Nov 06 23:00 |
| jose_X | but what are the odds? or how is this "right pattern" generated | Nov 06 23:00 |
| jose_X | i'm not denying this can happen. i want to know if it was accident or an attack | Nov 06 23:00 |
| oiaohm | Put it this way the odds were classed as impossiable. | Nov 06 23:00 |
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| jose_X | yes, so an attack seems more likely | Nov 06 23:01 |
| jose_X | that's the point | Nov 06 23:01 |
| oiaohm | Same mirror same file. | Nov 06 23:01 |
| jose_X | especially since it appears an attack is easy to do | Nov 06 23:01 |
| lordtoran | copy and paste, it works anyway | Nov 06 23:01 |
| oiaohm | Matching data. | Nov 06 23:01 |
| jose_X | different download time means not necessarily same file | Nov 06 23:01 |
| oiaohm | it simple to do with no matching data jose_X | Nov 06 23:01 |
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| oiaohm | To have matching data making the odds of attack instanely rare. | Nov 06 23:02 |
| jose_X | i don't follow | Nov 06 23:02 |
| jose_X | you don't know you were downloading the same file just because you thought you were downloading the same file | Nov 06 23:02 |
| oiaohm | Since the end matches. | Nov 06 23:02 |
| jose_X | an attack would have put a different corrupt collision file | Nov 06 23:03 |
| jose_X | example | Nov 06 23:03 |
| jose_X | i have a mirror | Nov 06 23:03 |
| oiaohm | It would mean the attacker would have bene able to cut the file at a point to insert a reset an have the rest processor out to the same result jose_X | Nov 06 23:03 |
| jose_X | periodically, i corrupt the files and load those on | Nov 06 23:03 |
| oiaohm | The odds of doing that is insane. | Nov 06 23:03 |
| jose_X | i am sabatoging the trust given to me of having a mirror | Nov 06 23:03 |
| oiaohm | Processing time to do it under a day from release. | Nov 06 23:04 |
| jose_X | and i can do it because it's apparently easy to find a collision (if you do it **on purpose** using the collision generator) | Nov 06 23:04 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: http://aplawrence.com/Linux/strange-hack.html | Nov 06 23:04 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: A strangely compromised Linux box .::. Size~: 56.56 KB | Nov 06 23:04 |
| oiaohm | Is more than world super computers. | Nov 06 23:04 |
| jose_X | the odds of changing to a corrupt file are very good if my intent is to do that | Nov 06 23:04 |
| jose_X | what do you mean insane? | Nov 06 23:04 |
| jose_X | odds? | Nov 06 23:04 |
| oiaohm | Now creating the attack not caring about matched data is simple jose_X | Nov 06 23:04 |
| jose_X | insane is accidental | Nov 06 23:04 |
| jose_X | sane is if i intend to compromise the system | Nov 06 23:05 |
| oiaohm | Ie the matched data says accidental. | Nov 06 23:05 |
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| jose_X | the wikipedia article suggested a collision could be found in one minute | Nov 06 23:05 |
| oiaohm | That the end of file binary matches is telling me that. | Nov 06 23:05 |
| jose_X | i quoted a little while ago | Nov 06 23:05 |
| oiaohm | Yes if you can set the end of the file to what ever you want. | Nov 06 23:05 |
| oiaohm | This case the end of file is not what ever the attack wanted. | Nov 06 23:06 |
| jose_X | so you are saying that finding a collision where most of the data matches is extremely difficult? | Nov 06 23:06 |
| oiaohm | Start of data with md5 matching is simple. | Nov 06 23:07 |
| oiaohm | End of data that sets final md5 value is hard jose_X | Nov 06 23:07 |
| jose_X | btw, i understand how controlling the end of the file could allow easy compromise | Nov 06 23:07 |
| oiaohm | Remember md5 is a stream processor. | Nov 06 23:07 |
| jose_X | i got that | Nov 06 23:07 |
| jose_X | but discovering an attack might be while allowing matching data at end | Nov 06 23:08 |
| jose_X | those are the details i don't know | Nov 06 23:08 |
| jose_X | let me say this | Nov 06 23:08 |
| jose_X | if this was accidental (I'll see if i read more on the collision generator)... | Nov 06 23:09 |
| jose_X | then i think many people might want to know because it might point to a way to yield collisions where the beginning of the file is what differs | Nov 06 23:09 |
| jose_X | i take 1 in 10 trillion very seriously.. i doubt there have been 10 trillion times where an md5 collision was checked | Nov 06 23:10 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: seen stuff like that before. Its normally not a bot net is normally data miners. | Nov 06 23:11 |
| oiaohm | jose_X: I am very supprised myself to see it. I have known the risk was there. | Nov 06 23:12 |
| oiaohm | jose_X: problem I have is the ripple effect. Like k3b depending on md5 to validate disks instead doing a binary compare. | Nov 06 23:14 |
| lordtoran | one has to be extremely cautious with ssh | Nov 06 23:14 |
| oiaohm | My ssh hide behind single packet knocks lordtoran | Nov 06 23:15 |
| lordtoran | when logins over the internet are possible | Nov 06 23:15 |
| lordtoran | you should have a whitelist of where one can login from | Nov 06 23:15 |
| oiaohm | Attacker can only attack something if they can see it. | Nov 06 23:15 |
| oiaohm | I have a whitelist as well lordtoran | Nov 06 23:15 |
| lordtoran | i even have a whitelist for my wireless AP, and this is not a server | Nov 06 23:16 |
| oiaohm | Hope you are not depending on mac's. | Nov 06 23:16 |
| lordtoran | oops | Nov 06 23:16 |
| lordtoran | it's a mac whitelist | Nov 06 23:16 |
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| lordtoran | sadly, that's the only possible lockdown in my router | Nov 06 23:17 |
| oiaohm | Yep and any machine these days on wireless can set mac to what ever they like | Nov 06 23:17 |
| oiaohm | The correct lock down is harder. | Nov 06 23:17 |
| oiaohm | It involves running a radius server and encryption from server to client for access lordtoran | Nov 06 23:17 |
| lordtoran | yes, i read of that | Nov 06 23:18 |
| oiaohm | Basically stops wireless attackers in there tracks. | Nov 06 23:18 |
| lordtoran | i should try that maybe | Nov 06 23:18 |
| oiaohm | mac whitelist only slows idiots down. | Nov 06 23:18 |
| lordtoran | if use wpa2 encryption but i would like to harden it more | Nov 06 23:19 |
| jose_X | oiaohm, wait a sec | Nov 06 23:19 |
| jose_X | say the error happens at the 100th "block" | Nov 06 23:20 |
| jose_X | hmmm wait nevermind i have to think about this mroe carefully | Nov 06 23:20 |
| oiaohm | And the reset was after the 100th block it will not show yep jose_X | Nov 06 23:20 |
| oiaohm | Notice that kubuntu 9.10 i386 has had the highest numbers of reports of people burning disks and them not working. | Nov 06 23:21 |
| jose_X | i don't know the details of this reset you mention but if it can be done easily then no prob creating your scenario as an attack | Nov 06 23:21 |
| oiaohm | It not easy jose_X | Nov 06 23:22 |
| jose_X | i'll look at the algorithm again carefully | Nov 06 23:22 |
| oiaohm | Because you need the right patten of data. | Nov 06 23:22 |
| jose_X | to see how much of the past bits (in past 512 block) affect future bits | Nov 06 23:22 |
| jose_X | if they are independent then the attack seems straightforward (if you have the collision algorithm handy) | Nov 06 23:23 |
| jose_X | but if the past blocks always affect a few future ones, then this would get more complex | Nov 06 23:23 |
| jose_X | btw, let me quote from wikipedia: | Nov 06 23:23 |
| jose_X | >> Because MD5 makes only one pass over the data, if two prefixes with the same hash can be constructed, a common suffix can be added to both to make the collision more likely to be accepted as valid data by the application using it. Furthermore, current collision-finding techniques allow to specify an arbitrary prefix: an attacker can create two colliding files that both begin with the same content. All the attacker needs to genera | Nov 06 23:23 |
| jose_X | te two colliding files is a template file with a 128-byte block of data aligned on a 64-byte boundary that can be changed freely by the collision-finding algorithm. | Nov 06 23:23 |
| jose_X | yeah that doesn't suggest anything beyond what we have talked about here | Nov 06 23:25 |
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| jose_X | ok, oiaohm... | Nov 06 23:29 |
| jose_X | i misread that piece i quoted | Nov 06 23:30 |
| jose_X | the algorithm does appear to have each 512 bit chunk be applied to the running 128 bit state independently | Nov 06 23:30 |
| jose_X | that part i quoted i think does say that if you find a colliding prefix then you can attach similar ending parts and (ithink) not continue to result in a collision | Nov 06 23:31 |
| jose_X | if i understood this, then it is easy to corrupt the data if you control the mirror | Nov 06 23:31 |
| jose_X | and it can be done very easily i think (the collision alg was said to work in under a minute) | Nov 06 23:32 |
| jose_X | find two intial parts that collide and then add the rest | Nov 06 23:32 |
| jose_X | md5 will produce the same value in that case i believe | Nov 06 23:32 |
| oiaohm | Yep. | Nov 06 23:32 |
| oiaohm | md5 is flawed. | Nov 06 23:32 |
| jose_X | i still want to see things more carefully | Nov 06 23:33 |
| oiaohm | Reset is causing the running state to 0 like it is at start of file. | Nov 06 23:33 |
| oiaohm | Not exactly straight forward to make md5 do. | Nov 06 23:34 |
| jose_X | (i don't exactly follow the reset argument, btw) | Nov 06 23:34 |
| oiaohm | Basically a far rare flaw. | Nov 06 23:34 |
| jose_X | oiaohm, you can do a test | Nov 06 23:35 |
| oiaohm | I will be latter today. I hope its not. | Nov 06 23:35 |
| oiaohm | breakfast is calli9ng jose_X | Nov 06 23:35 |
| jose_X | sure.. go eat at a time like this | Nov 06 23:35 |
| jose_X | ;-) | Nov 06 23:35 |
| jose_X | worrying is good if it's for a good reason | Nov 06 23:36 |
| jose_X | ...otoh | Nov 06 23:36 |
| jose_X | even a false alarm can lead to a learning experience | Nov 06 23:36 |
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| lordtoran | i see more constructive criticism of linux on the net now | Nov 06 23:49 |
| lordtoran | it means more people care about linux | Nov 06 23:50 |
| lordtoran | :-) | Nov 06 23:50 |
| lordtoran | also linux security is openly debated now | Nov 06 23:51 |
| schestowitz | http://www.raiden.net/articles/over_clocking_intel_i7_on_a_gigabyte_ex58-extreme/ Uberbox... | Nov 06 23:52 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Raiden's Realm: Over clocking intel i7 on a Gigabyte EX58-Extreme .::. Size~: 31.42 KB | Nov 06 23:52 |
| schestowitz | lordtoran: aye | Nov 06 23:52 |
| lordtoran | i see that as a good sign | Nov 06 23:52 |
| ender2070 | f12 is nice but i need my binary blobs or my notebook overheats | Nov 06 23:53 |
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| lordtoran | i have access pressurized air at work and just blow everything out once a month ;-) | Nov 06 23:54 |
| lordtoran | *access to | Nov 06 23:54 |
| schestowitz | Hmmmm.. how can this video be one of the most watched? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMH0bHeiRNg | Nov 06 23:54 |
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| schestowitz | And this is the most watched... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OBlgSz8sSM&feature=related | Nov 06 23:54 |
| schestowitz | Some years ago there were negative reviews of Linux | Nov 06 23:55 |
| schestowitz | Now I hardly find any | Nov 06 23:55 |
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| jose_X | >> Unlike SHA-1, the SHA-2 functions are not widely used, despite their better security. Reasons might include lack of support for SHA-2 on systems running Windows XP SP2 or older[5], a lack of perceived urgency since SHA-1 collisions have not yet been found, or a desire to wait until SHA-3 is standardized. SHA-256 is used to authenticate Debian Linux software packages[ | Nov 06 23:58 |
| jose_X | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHA_hash_functions | Nov 06 23:58 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: SHA hash functions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 93.57 KB | Nov 06 23:58 |
| jose_X | According to that debian uses a stronger sha algorithm for which no collisions have been reported | Nov 06 23:59 |
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