tessier | No more Windows refund? WTF? | Nov 23 00:04 |
---|---|---|
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #InternetExplorer Not Only Vulnerable But Also Under Attack http://ping.fm/ufhnE | Nov 23 00:09 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: IT PRO: Blogs: Davey Winder: IE 6 and 7 hit by hack attack code .::. Size~: 92.22 KB | Nov 23 00:09 |
schestowitz | tessier: no, Slashdot spin | Nov 23 00:13 |
schestowitz | I got mail about it | Nov 23 00:13 |
tessier | I saw something to that effect in the comments but it wasn't quite clear. | Nov 23 00:14 |
schestowitz | Maybe submitted by a Microsoft PR rep (the OP) | Nov 23 00:14 |
tessier | Why would they do that? It would seem to make them look bad. | Nov 23 00:15 |
schestowitz | That's what a friend told me | Nov 23 00:18 |
schestowitz | Maybe to deter people looking for discounts/refunds | Nov 23 00:18 |
cubezzz | buy blank or build | Nov 23 00:20 |
cubezzz | don't buy windows boxes | Nov 23 00:20 |
tessier | cubezzz: Ideally, yes. But it is hard to get the hardware you want without windows on it often. | Nov 23 00:24 |
cubezzz | vote with your wallet :) | Nov 23 00:24 |
tessier | Thinkpad is the best shipping Linux laptop at the moment that I can find. At least until the new ARM based stuff comes along. Not sure I can get a Thinkpad without Windows. | Nov 23 00:25 |
tessier | "Lenovo recommends Windows 7" | Nov 23 00:26 |
cubezzz | yes, that's the usual situation | Nov 23 00:26 |
cubezzz | couldn't you just ask the manufacturer to sell you a blank laptop? | Nov 23 00:26 |
tessier | cubezzz: Are you new to the whole pre-load Windows situation? | Nov 23 00:28 |
cubezzz | no of course not | Nov 23 00:28 |
tessier | No, you can't. People have tried. They say no. Their agreement with Microsoft often precludes it and where it doesn't they don't want to throw a kink into their fulfillment process with such expensive exceptions. | Nov 23 00:28 |
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tessier | Usually the hassle of a "Windows refund" per the EULA is your only choice. | Nov 23 00:29 |
cubezzz | http://thelinuxlaptop.com | Nov 23 00:31 |
ender2070_ | nice goblin | Nov 23 00:32 |
ender2070_ | saw your pingback | Nov 23 00:32 |
cubezzz | Dell will sell you a linux laptop or freedos laptop | Nov 23 00:38 |
ender2070_ | thats where I got my xps m1330 | Nov 23 00:47 |
ender2070_ | w/ ubuntu 8.04 | Nov 23 00:48 |
ender2070_ | i dont like ubuntu anymore tho, fedora ftw | Nov 23 00:48 |
cubezzz | well I'm just thinking of ways to avoid the Microsoft tax | Nov 23 00:55 |
cubezzz | you can always delete Ubuntu and put whatever on there | Nov 23 00:55 |
schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13zCc9JW_wI | Nov 23 00:57 |
cubezzz | tch, they changed youtube again | Nov 23 01:14 |
cubezzz | btw what does the military use for operating systems? | Nov 23 01:22 |
schestowitz | OK, let's go :-) posting marathon | Nov 23 01:22 |
schestowitz | cubezzz: Red Hat | Nov 23 01:22 |
schestowitz | Gradually more | Nov 23 01:22 |
cubezzz | or NSA for that matter :) | Nov 23 01:23 |
cubezzz | of course NSA might actually have the windows source code | Nov 23 01:23 |
ender2070_ | cubezzz - my dell came without the ms tax | Nov 23 01:33 |
ender2070_ | cubezzz - they dont appear to have ubuntu systems on their canadian site anymore however | Nov 23 01:33 |
cubezzz | http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9141105/NSA_helped_with_Windows_7_development | Nov 23 01:33 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: NSA helped with Windows 7 development .::. Size~: 138.43 KB | Nov 23 01:33 |
tessier | 0/join #python | Nov 23 01:37 |
ender2070_ | yeah and msft is trying to say there aren't backdoors | Nov 23 01:38 |
schestowitz | I found that funny | Nov 23 02:09 |
schestowitz | Here is why | Nov 23 02:09 |
schestowitz | Man A: B came to my house | Nov 23 02:09 |
schestowitz | Man C: Nice. | Nov 23 02:09 |
schestowitz | Man A: I didn't sleep with B | Nov 23 02:09 |
schestowitz | Man C: Huh? Who said you did. Why would you say that? | Nov 23 02:10 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft #Windows Advertising Goes Too Far, Parents Television Council Complains http://ping.fm/14gNW | Nov 23 02:12 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsoft Windows Advertising Goes Too Far, Parents Television Council Complains | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 110.33 KB | Nov 23 02:12 |
schestowitz | More importantly, it shows the people have begun viewing their secret service correctly and appropriately (as an enemy) | Nov 23 02:13 |
schestowitz | They don't think as the NSA as their defended; rather, they view it as Bush's uninvited intruder | Nov 23 02:13 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Vista7 Zero-Day Followed by #InternetExplorer 7 Zero-Day http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/22/internet-explorer-7-0day/ | Nov 23 03:00 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Vista 7 Zero-Day Followed by Internet Explorer 7 Zero-Day | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 109.1 KB | Nov 23 03:00 |
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] #thoughtful research roadblocks to free society http://tinyurl.com/ybe2tns (91 M) http://tinyurl.com/yatdb48 | Nov 23 03:16 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Not a web page! Aborting audio/ogg type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 23 03:16 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Not a web page! Aborting application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.presentation type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 23 03:16 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Can Only Wish it Was as Popular as #Linux (on Phones) http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/22/rapid-decline-of-windows-mobile/ | Nov 23 03:31 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsoft Can Only Wish it Was as Popular as Linux (on Phones) | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 105.67 KB | Nov 23 03:31 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] w3c validator is sort of broken at the moment. All pages return errors. | Nov 23 03:35 | |
sebsebseb | schestowitz: Do they, oh dear | Nov 23 03:58 |
Omar87 | schestowitz: hi, r u there? | Nov 23 04:11 |
*Omar87 (n=quassel@94.249.15.238) has left #boycottnovell ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.") | Nov 23 04:11 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Blogs | Quassel IRC .::. Size~: 26.68 KB | Nov 23 04:11 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Swaps Data with (and Maybe Pays) #Nielsen http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/22/nielsen-conflict-of-interests/ | Nov 23 04:24 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsoft Swaps Data with (and Maybe Pays) Nielsen, Which Compares Microsoft to Rivals | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 110.7 KB | Nov 23 04:24 |
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ender2070_ | lol his irc client exit msg triggers your bot | Nov 23 04:34 |
schestowitz | Whose? | Nov 23 04:39 |
schestowitz | Mike's? | Nov 23 04:39 |
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Nov 23 04:40 | |
*schestowitz has kicked szaze from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 23 04:40 | |
schestowitz | Mutex the perp ban-evading | Nov 23 04:40 |
schestowitz | gn | Nov 23 04:40 |
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to ender2070_ | Nov 23 04:40 | |
DaemonFC | Hulu is running Intel ads now | Nov 23 04:42 |
ender2070_ | I was refering to omar | Nov 23 04:48 |
ender2070_ | Does Mutex have some sort of bot that does all that? | Nov 23 04:49 |
DaemonFC | hmmm, Fort Wayne needs a better "adult services" section on Craigslist | Nov 23 04:57 |
DaemonFC | there's one "male escort" listed there and he's about 40 years old and 300 pounds | Nov 23 04:58 |
DaemonFC | if he's a male escort, I'm a freaking supermodel | Nov 23 04:58 |
ender2070_ | 1) why are you looking up male escorts | Nov 23 04:58 |
DaemonFC | cause I can | Nov 23 04:58 |
ender2070_ | 2) Perhaps, Fort Wayne sucks | Nov 23 04:58 |
DaemonFC | Yeah, but the town I'm in sucks worse | Nov 23 04:59 |
DaemonFC | 3) I would sell my soul to get out of this town and state | Nov 23 04:59 |
DaemonFC | Indiana, famous for NASCAR and meth labs | Nov 23 05:00 |
DaemonFC | wonder if the two are related... | Nov 23 05:00 |
DaemonFC | it's like there's no jobs and so to finance their alcoholism, they all started selling meth | Nov 23 05:01 |
DaemonFC | or becoming 40 year old 300 pound male prostitutes I suppose | Nov 23 05:03 |
DaemonFC | http://popup.lala.com/popup/360569458405683108 | Nov 23 05:04 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Lala Song Player - The Worst Day Since Yesterday by Flogging Molly .::. Size~: 22.87 KB | Nov 23 05:04 |
ender2070_ | lol | Nov 23 05:09 |
ender2070_ | as for hulu | Nov 23 05:09 |
ender2070_ | why does intel need to advertise | Nov 23 05:09 |
DaemonFC | Who knows? | Nov 23 05:11 |
DaemonFC | 99% of all processor sales are either theirs or make them license money | Nov 23 05:12 |
ender2070_ | amd is in it for the money too | Nov 23 05:14 |
ender2070_ | they backed off on their anti trust suit against intel for settlement money | Nov 23 05:14 |
DaemonFC | yeah | Nov 23 05:16 |
DaemonFC | it's all they wanted anyway | Nov 23 05:16 |
DaemonFC | $1.25 billion isn't a bad payoff for a bluff | Nov 23 05:16 |
ender2070_ | yup | Nov 23 05:16 |
ender2070_ | and intel is going to continue ripping ppl off | Nov 23 05:16 |
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ender2070_ | had nothing to do with us buyers | Nov 23 05:17 |
ender2070_ | i use intel right now but i wouldnt if it werent at such insane prices | Nov 23 05:17 |
DaemonFC | the PC platform is being killed by a combination of Microsoft and video game publishers | Nov 23 05:18 |
ender2070_ | my q6600 was $200 when they were brand new | Nov 23 05:18 |
ender2070_ | and my i7 920 I got for $160 w/ vista and windows 7 | Nov 23 05:18 |
ender2070_ | basicly two free os's | Nov 23 05:18 |
DaemonFC | my Phenom II X4 945 retails for about that much | Nov 23 05:18 |
Diablo-D3 | and amd is still cheaper | Nov 23 05:18 |
ender2070_ | canadian prices | Nov 23 05:19 |
DaemonFC | oh | Nov 23 05:19 |
ender2070_ | so add like $20-30 | Nov 23 05:19 |
ender2070_ | err subtract | Nov 23 05:19 |
DaemonFC | ender2070: The US dollar has had the shit beaten out of it so hard that we're just barely ahead of Canadian money now | Nov 23 05:19 |
DaemonFC | so you can figure the exchange rate is maybe within 5% of each other right now in our favor | Nov 23 05:20 |
ender2070_ | at one point we were beating you | Nov 23 05:20 |
DaemonFC | the CAD must have had it rough too, cause it was ahead of ours for several months | Nov 23 05:20 |
ender2070_ | it wasnt for that long | Nov 23 05:20 |
ender2070_ | your recession caused a mini one here | Nov 23 05:21 |
ender2070_ | we're out of it already | Nov 23 05:21 |
DaemonFC | ender2070_: I remember when I went to Canada, I had my US dollars converted, because even though ours is accepted there, the shops did a 1:1 conversion | Nov 23 05:22 |
ender2070_ | yes | Nov 23 05:22 |
ender2070_ | correct | Nov 23 05:22 |
DaemonFC | so if something cost $10 CAD then you'd be paying $10 USD for something that was only worth like $8 USD | Nov 23 05:22 |
ender2070_ | your money is worth more than ours, we'll do 1:1 no problem | Nov 23 05:22 |
DaemonFC | so you'd be paying about 20% more | Nov 23 05:22 |
ender2070_ | yeah | Nov 23 05:23 |
ender2070_ | but you're saving $2 not having to burn gas to the bank / currency converter | Nov 23 05:23 |
ender2070_ | at the same time | Nov 23 05:23 |
DaemonFC | not really | Nov 23 05:23 |
DaemonFC | not when you spend several hundred dollars | Nov 23 05:23 |
DaemonFC | it's worth it to get it converted then | Nov 23 05:23 |
ender2070_ | if i went to the US, I world be forced to convert my currency over | Nov 23 05:23 |
DaemonFC | yep | Nov 23 05:24 |
ender2070_ | i wouldnt have that second option | Nov 23 05:24 |
DaemonFC | you may slip a few Canadian pennies through | Nov 23 05:24 |
DaemonFC | sneaky bastards :P | Nov 23 05:24 |
ender2070_ | we got a few of yours | Nov 23 05:24 |
DaemonFC | always trying to inflate our economy with Canadian pennies | Nov 23 05:24 |
DaemonFC | damn them :D | Nov 23 05:24 |
ender2070_ | technically speaking, i think those stores are breaking the law by accepting foreign currency | Nov 23 05:24 |
DaemonFC | it's a plot | Nov 23 05:24 |
DaemonFC | perhaps | Nov 23 05:25 |
DaemonFC | would you turn down a 20% profit increase over a law that's unenforced? | Nov 23 05:25 |
ender2070_ | we're only supposed to accept "legal tender" | Nov 23 05:25 |
DaemonFC | of course, when I went there, it was in the 90s | Nov 23 05:26 |
DaemonFC | and you didn't need a passport | Nov 23 05:26 |
ender2070_ | the stores that accept us dollars probably build it up and convert it themselves | Nov 23 05:26 |
ender2070_ | maybe even doing 1:1 conversion with bills in their wallets | Nov 23 05:26 |
ender2070_ | it would be way too hard to track | Nov 23 05:26 |
ender2070_ | you didnt need a passport till this summer | Nov 23 05:26 |
ender2070_ | blame Al Queda | Nov 23 05:26 |
DaemonFC | that ought to stop those pesky seniors from trying to get affordable medication | Nov 23 05:27 |
ender2070_ | lol | Nov 23 05:27 |
DaemonFC | they can pay $200 a bottle like everyone else | Nov 23 05:27 |
DaemonFC | B-) | Nov 23 05:27 |
DaemonFC | Medicare part D is a way to steal from people and give it to drug companies | Nov 23 05:27 |
DaemonFC | cause it still basically doesn't cover generics | Nov 23 05:28 |
ender2070_ | ?? | Nov 23 05:28 |
DaemonFC | and the coverage on brand name drugs is a joke | Nov 23 05:28 |
ender2070_ | they cover specific "brands" with health care? | Nov 23 05:28 |
ender2070_ | thats crazy | Nov 23 05:28 |
DaemonFC | the co-pay for generics on most Part D plans is $7, but most generics cost $4 | Nov 23 05:28 |
DaemonFC | so you pay it all | Nov 23 05:28 |
DaemonFC | The cost for one of my meds is $150 retail, when I go on Medicare that drops to $40 | Nov 23 05:29 |
DaemonFC | but I'm going to have to pay about $30 just for the Part D plan each month | Nov 23 05:29 |
ender2070_ | my doctor writes me a prescription for whatever, and i get it filled by any pharmacy usually by their in-store generics | Nov 23 05:29 |
DaemonFC | ender2070_: I talked to my doctor about this | Nov 23 05:30 |
DaemonFC | she agreed that when I have Part D, she'll write me prescriptions for Crestor 40 mg | Nov 23 05:30 |
DaemonFC | and I can split them twice to make 4 10 mg pills | Nov 23 05:30 |
ender2070_ | crazy | Nov 23 05:30 |
DaemonFC | right now I get it free from the drug company cause I'm broke and have no insurance | Nov 23 05:30 |
ender2070_ | my doctor writes the prescription for the drugs actual scientific name | Nov 23 05:31 |
DaemonFC | but when I have insurance, I'm gonna need to split a higher dose of all my brand name pills | Nov 23 05:31 |
DaemonFC | to make them last longer | Nov 23 05:31 |
DaemonFC | that would take it from the $40 a month to about $10 | Nov 23 05:31 |
DaemonFC | which approaches reasonable | Nov 23 05:31 |
ender2070_ | what is it for | Nov 23 05:32 |
ender2070_ | if u dont mind | Nov 23 05:32 |
DaemonFC | another option is switch to a less effective generic | Nov 23 05:32 |
DaemonFC | and pay 100% of that anyway | Nov 23 05:32 |
DaemonFC | and put up with more side effects | Nov 23 05:32 |
ender2070_ | less effective generic? | Nov 23 05:32 |
DaemonFC | ender2070_: Cholesterol | Nov 23 05:33 |
DaemonFC | yeah | Nov 23 05:33 |
ender2070_ | if its the same drug why would it change | Nov 23 05:33 |
DaemonFC | ender2070: Generic statins don't work as well | Nov 23 05:33 |
DaemonFC | and you have to take higher doses | Nov 23 05:33 |
DaemonFC | there's no generic for Crestor | Nov 23 05:33 |
ender2070_ | you probably hear this a lot but you could probably eat healthier and not need the pills | Nov 23 05:33 |
DaemonFC | there won't be until after 2017 when the patents run out | Nov 23 05:33 |
DaemonFC | ender2070_: Nope | Nov 23 05:34 |
DaemonFC | tried it for months and my LDL only went down about 10% | Nov 23 05:34 |
ender2070_ | you have to keep at it | Nov 23 05:34 |
DaemonFC | it needed to go down more like 40% or more | Nov 23 05:34 |
DaemonFC | no diet would fix that | Nov 23 05:34 |
DaemonFC | my liver was making pretty much all of it | Nov 23 05:34 |
ender2070_ | i know of people who got off cancer for example, simply by going organic foods | Nov 23 05:34 |
ender2070_ | most disease is caused by what we eat | Nov 23 05:35 |
ender2070_ | perhaps, at least healthy eating will prevent damage from having to take smaller dosages? | Nov 23 05:35 |
DaemonFC | the 10 mg is working well | Nov 23 05:36 |
DaemonFC | I just got my lipid profile back and I went from LDL 166 to 91 | Nov 23 05:36 |
DaemonFC | it should be 100 or less | Nov 23 05:36 |
ender2070_ | not bad | Nov 23 05:37 |
ender2070_ | i dont like to see people having to spend their lives on medication | Nov 23 05:37 |
DaemonFC | it's effective, it just costs a fortune | Nov 23 05:37 |
ender2070_ | you gotta pay $10 just to live | Nov 23 05:37 |
DaemonFC | I'm also on 20 mg Lisinopril each day | Nov 23 05:37 |
DaemonFC | got my blood pressure down from 146/100 to 122/82 | Nov 23 05:38 |
ender2070_ | how old are you? | Nov 23 05:38 |
DaemonFC | that's where it was last time I checked | Nov 23 05:38 |
ender2070_ | i thought you were 25ish | Nov 23 05:38 |
DaemonFC | 25 | Nov 23 05:38 |
ender2070_ | why do you have cholesteral and blood pressure problems at that age? | Nov 23 05:38 |
DaemonFC | under 130/90 is where you want it, ideally | Nov 23 05:38 |
DaemonFC | genetics | Nov 23 05:39 |
DaemonFC | my dad had the same problems around my age | Nov 23 05:39 |
ender2070_ | cant blame it all on genetics though | Nov 23 05:39 |
DaemonFC | yeah, you can, if that's what caused it | Nov 23 05:39 |
ender2070_ | cholesteral no, maybe blood pressure | Nov 23 05:40 |
DaemonFC | I'm convinced it is, because my aunt is in her 50s, obese, and her blood pressure and cholesterol are both fine | Nov 23 05:40 |
DaemonFC | genetics has more to do with the problem than people like to think | Nov 23 05:40 |
ender2070_ | cholesteral is literally a greese like substance that is chocking you from the inside | Nov 23 05:40 |
ender2070_ | it builds up from what you eat | Nov 23 05:40 |
DaemonFC | what you eat is not really the issue | Nov 23 05:40 |
ender2070_ | you might have genetics that suggest your body cant get rid of cholesteral | Nov 23 05:41 |
DaemonFC | not if 80% or more of that cholesterol is made by your liver | Nov 23 05:41 |
ender2070_ | at which point, you have to spend more effort avoiding it | Nov 23 05:41 |
DaemonFC | if I was eating a grease and salt sandwich every day, I might figure it was my diet | Nov 23 05:41 |
*Azalyn has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Nov 23 05:41 | |
DaemonFC | but even eating a low cholesterol low salt diet didn't fix anything | Nov 23 05:41 |
ender2070_ | did u eat a lot of oatmeal? | Nov 23 05:42 |
DaemonFC | believe me I choked down that flavorless crap every day for 6 months and it didn't even make a dent | Nov 23 05:42 |
DaemonFC | I hate oatmeal | Nov 23 05:42 |
DaemonFC | I ate cereal though | Nov 23 05:42 |
ender2070_ | heh so do i | Nov 23 05:42 |
ender2070_ | i started eating it | Nov 23 05:42 |
ender2070_ | i dont want to get chloresteral or heart problems | Nov 23 05:42 |
DaemonFC | by the time I decided to stop doing that, I was like "Cheeseburger and fries, stat!" | Nov 23 05:43 |
ender2070_ | LOL | Nov 23 05:43 |
DaemonFC | cause I hadn't been eating real food for months | Nov 23 05:43 |
ender2070_ | it had to have helped a bit | Nov 23 05:43 |
DaemonFC | I'll still eat chefs salads and such | Nov 23 05:43 |
DaemonFC | I love them | Nov 23 05:43 |
ender2070_ | if my liver was producing 80% of my chloresteral, i would completely avoid cheeseburgers | Nov 23 05:43 |
DaemonFC | like I said, it only got the LDL down by about 12% | Nov 23 05:44 |
ender2070_ | 12% beats 0 | Nov 23 05:44 |
ender2070_ | wouldnt u say? | Nov 23 05:44 |
DaemonFC | it was a help, but it wasn't doing enough and it wasn't worth the reduction in quality of life | Nov 23 05:44 |
DaemonFC | you try eating a vegetarian diet for 6 months and tell me you don't want some real food | Nov 23 05:44 |
ender2070_ | obviously | Nov 23 05:44 |
DaemonFC | the only thing I can say about it is that I did lose about 25 pounds | Nov 23 05:45 |
ender2070_ | i think you should still stick with it | Nov 23 05:45 |
DaemonFC | though I think it was cause there was no motivation to overeat | Nov 23 05:45 |
ender2070_ | or at least try to eat a little healthier, it cant hurt | Nov 23 05:45 |
DaemonFC | if you locked someone in a fallout shelter with vegetarian food, and a gun...... | Nov 23 05:45 |
DaemonFC | I think within a week, they'd turn the gun on themselves | Nov 23 05:46 |
ender2070_ | actually | Nov 23 05:46 |
ender2070_ | vs starvation, people will eat rotten food | Nov 23 05:46 |
ender2070_ | i wouldnt assume someone would kill themselves | Nov 23 05:46 |
DaemonFC | cannibalism > vegetarian food > gun? | Nov 23 05:46 |
DaemonFC | B-) | Nov 23 05:46 |
ender2070_ | vegetarian food isnt that bad | Nov 23 05:46 |
DaemonFC | no wait..... | Nov 23 05:46 |
DaemonFC | cannibalism > canned dog food > vegetarian food > gun | Nov 23 05:47 |
ender2070_ | if it was the only food, it wouldnt be as bad as you are saying | Nov 23 05:47 |
ender2070_ | cheeseburger > carrots, perhaps | Nov 23 05:47 |
ender2070_ | but | Nov 23 05:47 |
ender2070_ | death > carrots, i'd take carrots | Nov 23 05:47 |
DaemonFC | nah, but I just can't imagine a person eating it by choice | Nov 23 05:47 |
ender2070_ | you need meat | Nov 23 05:48 |
DaemonFC | there's compromises that aren't nasty that aren't loaded with fat and cholesterol | Nov 23 05:48 |
DaemonFC | turkey burgers for example | Nov 23 05:48 |
ender2070_ | yeah | Nov 23 05:48 |
ender2070_ | thats what im trying to suggest | Nov 23 05:48 |
ender2070_ | a little healthier cant hurt | Nov 23 05:48 |
ender2070_ | not saying go 100% | Nov 23 05:48 |
ender2070_ | try only having that cheeseburger at dinner | Nov 23 05:49 |
ender2070_ | etc | Nov 23 05:49 |
DaemonFC | I had blueberry pancakes with sugar free syrup and turkey bacon with scrambled egg beaters and some black coffee | Nov 23 05:49 |
DaemonFC | that was dinner | Nov 23 05:49 |
ender2070_ | perhaps force yourself to eat some oatmeal alongside the other stuff you enjoy | Nov 23 05:49 |
DaemonFC | there's some substitutes that aren't terrible | Nov 23 05:49 |
DaemonFC | there's a fat free poppyseed dressing I like a lot | Nov 23 05:50 |
DaemonFC | I eat the plain cheerios with banana slices and splenda | Nov 23 05:50 |
ender2070_ | yeah | Nov 23 05:50 |
ender2070_ | i myself drink diet pop | Nov 23 05:50 |
DaemonFC | bad idea | Nov 23 05:50 |
ender2070_ | ? | Nov 23 05:51 |
ender2070_ | for my teeth mainly | Nov 23 05:51 |
DaemonFC | I try to drink it sparingly, the aspartame is not good for you | Nov 23 05:51 |
DaemonFC | yeah, aspartame won't rot teeth, it will hurt kidneys though | Nov 23 05:51 |
DaemonFC | Diet Rite uses Splenda | Nov 23 05:51 |
ender2070_ | my teeth are my more immediate concern | Nov 23 05:51 |
ender2070_ | i have two teeth that are broken that i need removed | Nov 23 05:52 |
DaemonFC | I'd just go for Splenda (sucralose) and not have it destroy either | Nov 23 05:52 |
ender2070_ | most of the diet pop i drink has sucralose | Nov 23 05:52 |
DaemonFC | yeah, I have two minor cavities I need filled | Nov 23 05:52 |
ender2070_ | i avoid aspertame | Nov 23 05:52 |
DaemonFC | if I had been drinking sugar pop though I'd have really gotten hit with some major dental overhauls | Nov 23 05:52 |
ender2070_ | asptertame is a byproduct of the aluminum industry, iirc | Nov 23 05:52 |
DaemonFC | and diabetes II | Nov 23 05:52 |
ender2070_ | canada doesnt give free dental | Nov 23 05:53 |
ender2070_ | :( | Nov 23 05:53 |
ender2070_ | unless your a kid | Nov 23 05:53 |
DaemonFC | there's teenagers that have cavities thanks to sugar pop | Nov 23 05:53 |
ender2070_ | i had cavities through my childhood | Nov 23 05:53 |
DaemonFC | I like to think I put off the cavities for 10 or more years by avoiding it | Nov 23 05:53 |
ender2070_ | now i have to use special toothpaste to harden and numb my teeth | Nov 23 05:54 |
DaemonFC | ender2070_: What sucks is how much composite fillings cost | Nov 23 05:54 |
DaemonFC | there's jsut too many advantages over silver fillings to try and get cheap though | Nov 23 05:54 |
ender2070_ | mine are all composite | Nov 23 05:54 |
DaemonFC | yeah, you might save $40 per filling to have your tooth break later | Nov 23 05:54 |
ender2070_ | i did have 90% coverage as a kid via my parents insurance | Nov 23 05:55 |
DaemonFC | then there's the fact it has mercury in it and doesn't blend in | Nov 23 05:55 |
DaemonFC | yeah, I got my wisdom teeth out | Nov 23 05:55 |
ender2070_ | i dont think people i canada get silver ones, we get free health and our work usually cover dental | Nov 23 05:55 |
DaemonFC | due to some quirk in my dad's policy, I was technically covered til the last day of the year I turned 18 | Nov 23 05:56 |
DaemonFC | so like December 30, 2002 I had them all out | Nov 23 05:56 |
ender2070_ | my two broken teeth that need to be removed are beside both my wisdom teeth on the bottom | Nov 23 05:56 |
DaemonFC | the very last day I was covered | Nov 23 05:56 |
DaemonFC | didn't pay a penny | Nov 23 05:56 |
ender2070_ | my wisdom teeth will replace them | Nov 23 05:56 |
DaemonFC | if I had them out when the place was open again on January 2, 2003, I would have paid over $2,500 | Nov 23 05:57 |
DaemonFC | :) | Nov 23 05:57 |
ender2070_ | i also suspect my wisdom teeth might have caused them to break, they were filled in previously and pressure might have done it | Nov 23 05:57 |
DaemonFC | yeah, getting the wisdom teeth out early is a good idea | Nov 23 05:57 |
DaemonFC | they can cause problems all your life if you don't | Nov 23 05:58 |
ender2070_ | in my case | Nov 23 05:58 |
ender2070_ | if i did | Nov 23 05:58 |
ender2070_ | i wouldnt have my back chewing teeth when i get them removed | Nov 23 05:58 |
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ender2070_ | my wisdom teeth are supposedly going to shift over in their place | Nov 23 05:58 |
ender2070_ | which is better imo | Nov 23 05:59 |
DaemonFC | hope they aren't wrapped around your jaw | Nov 23 05:59 |
ender2070_ | they arent | Nov 23 05:59 |
DaemonFC | you're going to get a broken jaw for them to take them out if they are | Nov 23 05:59 |
DaemonFC | well, you caught a break there | Nov 23 05:59 |
DaemonFC | my dad's were | Nov 23 05:59 |
ender2070_ | they are hardly impacted | Nov 23 06:00 |
ender2070_ | if they dont shift straight i might need braces | Nov 23 06:00 |
ender2070_ | thats the worst the dentist said | Nov 23 06:00 |
DaemonFC | they told me not to eat starting 8 hours before the surgery or 24 hours after | Nov 23 06:00 |
DaemonFC | so like 6-7 hours after they're done, right? My mouth is still bleeding. | Nov 23 06:00 |
ender2070_ | my wisdom teeth were noticed when i was 14 | Nov 23 06:01 |
ender2070_ | im 25 now and they just finally came in | Nov 23 06:01 |
DaemonFC | I decided "Fuck it, I'm getting some Taco Bell" | Nov 23 06:01 |
ender2070_ | LOL | Nov 23 06:01 |
DaemonFC | I managed to get a couple burrito supremes down by chewing on the front teeth | Nov 23 06:01 |
ender2070_ | DaemonFC - usually when they say that you can get away with soup and water | Nov 23 06:01 |
DaemonFC | ahem | Nov 23 06:01 |
ender2070_ | not taco bell | Nov 23 06:02 |
ender2070_ | lol | Nov 23 06:02 |
DaemonFC | Nachos Bell Grande-flavored soup? | Nov 23 06:02 |
DaemonFC | I thought so | Nov 23 06:02 |
ender2070_ | your immune system isnt ready for that one | Nov 23 06:02 |
DaemonFC | well, ready or not, here it comes | Nov 23 06:02 |
DaemonFC | deal with it | Nov 23 06:02 |
ender2070_ | i love their cheesy gordida crunch | Nov 23 06:02 |
DaemonFC | meh, getting something crunchy probably wouldn't have gone over well | Nov 23 06:03 |
ender2070_ | luckily, Chipotle-Away also works on taco bell blood stains | Nov 23 06:03 |
DaemonFC | I just decided on the soft shell burritos | Nov 23 06:03 |
DaemonFC | we don't have Chipotles here | Nov 23 06:04 |
DaemonFC | so I never really got that joke | Nov 23 06:04 |
DaemonFC | and I've never had diarrhea that wasn't flu-related | Nov 23 06:04 |
DaemonFC | I've had heartburn a couple times when I really overdid it on some habenero sauce or something | Nov 23 06:05 |
ender2070_ | lots of stuff has chipotle | Nov 23 06:05 |
ender2070_ | chipotle is also a sauce | Nov 23 06:06 |
DaemonFC | yeah, I am aware | Nov 23 06:06 |
ender2070_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etTHAmqjnBA | Nov 23 06:06 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @ShivamVij: Abida Parveen's voice is actually Amitabh Bachchan's, new investigation reveals. #fakingnews | Nov 23 06:07 | |
ender2070_ | you find it in everything without even knowing it | Nov 23 06:07 |
ender2070_ | southwest sauce is either the same or based on it | Nov 23 06:07 |
DaemonFC | I'm making bbq ribs tomorrow | Nov 23 06:10 |
DaemonFC | mmmmm | Nov 23 06:10 |
ender2070_ | mmmmmmmmm | Nov 23 06:10 |
DaemonFC | it's some powder that you mix with water and brush it on the ribs | Nov 23 06:12 |
DaemonFC | can't remember what brand, but it's good | Nov 23 06:12 |
DaemonFC | probably the worst thing for me that I ever make is these giant half pound burgers with cream of mushroom soup on them and melted velveeta | Nov 23 06:13 |
DaemonFC | topped with bacon | Nov 23 06:14 |
DaemonFC | my mom lives down the street, so we just pool the grocery money and take turns cooking | Nov 23 06:15 |
DaemonFC | beats living off those really expensive TV dinners | Nov 23 06:15 |
DaemonFC | there's just no economy of scale when you're only cooking for yourself | Nov 23 06:15 |
DaemonFC | they gouge you with all these little 1 serving deals | Nov 23 06:16 |
DaemonFC | and you have stuff going bad all the time | Nov 23 06:16 |
ender2070_ | yeah i know what you mean | Nov 23 06:17 |
DaemonFC | http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0012ONFRS/ref=asc_df_B0012ONFRS969247?smid=A2BBUA7LL95L5R&tag=shopzilla_mp_1006-20&linkCode=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B0012ONFRS | Nov 23 06:27 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: McCormick Bbq Pulled Pork, 1.6-Ounce Units (Pack of 12): Amazon.com: Grocery .::. Size~: 302.04 KB | Nov 23 06:27 |
DaemonFC | that's what I use on the ribs | Nov 23 06:27 |
Diablo-D3 | oooh | Nov 23 06:27 |
Diablo-D3 | who posted that link | Nov 23 06:27 |
Diablo-D3 | because the mccormick bbq pulled pork seasoning packets are awesome | Nov 23 06:27 |
*Diablo-D3 owns a crock pot, makes it every once in awhile | Nov 23 06:28 | |
ender2070_ | :) | Nov 23 06:31 |
ender2070_ | daemon did | Nov 23 06:31 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Good morning everyone! Today is D-Day for me. Will release my new album "Voice of the Kernel" today. Currently writing the announcement. | Nov 23 06:31 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] The files are already accessible via ftp://ftp.slated.org/ml2mst/votk but still have to do the final touch. | Nov 23 06:32 | |
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ender2070_ | "Everyone votes for a Dictator" | Nov 23 06:46 |
ender2070_ | -The Prisoner | Nov 23 06:46 |
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ender2070_ | lol "Religion is like Kindergarden for Psychopaths" - Michael Tsarion | Nov 23 06:59 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] Is it about legal amendments needed for nuid? | Nov 23 07:06 | |
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DaemonFC | http://www.securitypronews.com/insiderreports/insider/spn-49-20091120SecurityProblemsFoundWithFirefoxExtensions.html | Nov 23 07:44 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Security Problems Found With Firefox Extensions .::. Size~: 23.45 KB | Nov 23 07:44 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] testing from centerIM | Nov 23 07:48 | |
DaemonFC | ender2070: Would you rather have a really nice recliner or a really nice TV? | Nov 23 08:01 |
DaemonFC | if you could only afford one | Nov 23 08:01 |
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DaemonFC | http://popup.lala.com/popup/576742248996689317 | Nov 23 08:21 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Lala Song Player - Angry Again by Megadeth .::. Size~: 22.9 KB | Nov 23 08:21 |
DaemonFC | http://popup.lala.com/popup/360569462346958760 | Nov 23 08:26 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Lala Song Player - Duality by Slipknot .::. Size~: 22.81 KB | Nov 23 08:26 |
DaemonFC | http://fortwayne.craigslist.org/for/1471982812.html | Nov 23 08:55 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Forklift .::. Size~: 4.02 KB | Nov 23 08:55 |
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-BNi/#boycottnovell-[serk01/@serk01] If you like the chrome browser interface, but are a true firefoxer, then google "chromifox" and you'll be in joy! | Nov 23 09:51 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] When a Convicted Criminal Accuses Others of Crime http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/23/pequot-microsoft-story-returns/ | Nov 23 10:51 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: When a Convicted Criminal Accuses Others of Crime | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 104.25 KB | Nov 23 10:51 |
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[serk01/@serk01] really great article on Apple's mistakes in their relationship with developers http://www.paulgraham.com/apple.html | Nov 23 10:51 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Apple's Mistake .::. Size~: 19.3 KB | Nov 23 10:51 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Lies About #OOXML and the Failure of Microsoft Office 2010 http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/23/office-2010-no-iso-ooxml-support/ | Nov 23 11:20 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: The Lies About OOXML and the Failure of Microsoft Office 2010 | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 107.83 KB | Nov 23 11:20 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: My aunt still has to use MS Office | Nov 23 11:31 |
DaemonFC | her job requires it | Nov 23 11:32 |
schestowitz | Yes, some places are clueless | Nov 23 11:34 |
schestowitz | Also, it's not just businesses | Nov 23 11:34 |
schestowitz | It's also govt | Nov 23 11:34 |
schestowitz | In Europe and Malaysia, ODF is more widely accepted | Nov 23 11:34 |
oiaohm | There is a difference between require, need and want DaemonFC | Nov 23 11:36 |
DaemonFC | here it's always been "whatever Microsoft is using" | Nov 23 11:36 |
oiaohm | Lot of cases people say require its not. | Nov 23 11:36 |
DaemonFC | the fact that OpenOffice can't export OOXML is not helping it | Nov 23 11:36 |
DaemonFC | nobody is taking something seriously that defaults to a format nobody is using | Nov 23 11:37 |
DaemonFC | it's kind of a paradox | Nov 23 11:37 |
oiaohm | Funny enough DaemonFC who says OpenOffice is the only option. | Nov 23 11:38 |
DaemonFC | nobody will take OOo seriously until it's compatible with MS Office, but once it was compatible with MS Office, everyone would switch | Nov 23 11:38 |
DaemonFC | because I honestly can't tell you a single person who would pay $200 for MS Office just for shits and giggles | Nov 23 11:38 |
oiaohm | What about OOo blood releations. | Nov 23 11:38 |
oiaohm | This is the problem DaemonFC tunnel vision. | Nov 23 11:39 |
DaemonFC | it's really not _that bad_ of a program, interface-wise | Nov 23 11:39 |
DaemonFC | I don't like proprietary formats though | Nov 23 11:39 |
oiaohm | There is go oo that is a novell blood relation with ooxml export. | Nov 23 11:39 |
DaemonFC | OOo has just always struck me as looking like Word 95 | Nov 23 11:39 |
DaemonFC | it's just incredibly dated | Nov 23 11:39 |
oiaohm | Why change interface. | Nov 23 11:39 |
DaemonFC | Go-OO does not export | Nov 23 11:40 |
DaemonFC | you still need their plug-in | Nov 23 11:40 |
DaemonFC | well, there's usability tests done for a reason | Nov 23 11:40 |
DaemonFC | it may work out that people work better when you shift around the UI a certain way | Nov 23 11:41 |
oiaohm | You are aware that is a to standard ooxml export filter for openoffice. | Nov 23 11:41 |
oiaohm | Main reason its not shipped is MS Office cannot process it. | Nov 23 11:41 |
DaemonFC | if you find out that square shaped tires don't work so well, are you going to stay with them? | Nov 23 11:41 |
oiaohm | Since MS Office does not produce OOXML to standard when you got to future versions documents may not open correctly. | Nov 23 11:42 |
DaemonFC | Office 2010 comes a lot closer to the ISO standard version of OOXML | Nov 23 11:42 |
DaemonFC | or so I've heard | Nov 23 11:42 |
oiaohm | Yep and documents from Office 2007 are snaped. | Nov 23 11:42 |
oiaohm | Say ouch. | Nov 23 11:42 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #NComputing Hijacked by #Microsoft After Bringing in Microsoft Executive http://ur1.ca/gd3w | Nov 23 11:43 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: NComputing Hijacked by Microsoft After Bringing in Microsoft Executive | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 106.67 KB | Nov 23 11:43 |
oiaohm | So really only fools would be using OOXML at this stage from MS Office | Nov 23 11:43 |
DaemonFC | I doubt it | Nov 23 11:43 |
DaemonFC | there would just need to be an import filter | Nov 23 11:43 |
DaemonFC | not the first time | Nov 23 11:43 |
oiaohm | MS did not include any version id string in the format. | Nov 23 11:44 |
DaemonFC | ahh, and there's the genius plan | Nov 23 11:44 |
DaemonFC | not original but it still makes money | Nov 23 11:44 |
oiaohm | ODF has a version tag. | Nov 23 11:44 |
oiaohm | Someone was sane. | Nov 23 11:44 |
DaemonFC | save a document in new version of Office and it no longer loads right in the old version | Nov 23 11:44 |
oiaohm | Its both ways. | Nov 23 11:45 |
oiaohm | Old office document does not open right in 2010 unless you special load it. | Nov 23 11:45 |
DaemonFC | older documents import fine into new MS Office, but they don't go back once you've saved them | Nov 23 11:45 |
DaemonFC | it's a one way street to frustrate people into upgrading | Nov 23 11:45 |
oiaohm | But you have to import each one. | Nov 23 11:45 |
oiaohm | People would have been better off using sun odf plugin in MS Office than ooxml. | Nov 23 11:46 |
DaemonFC | the really insidious part is that Microsoft can stick a "Save as (old Office format)" to get the regulators off of them | Nov 23 11:46 |
DaemonFC | but nobody uses it cause it's not the default option | Nov 23 11:46 |
DaemonFC | the Sun plug-in is basically stuffing a whole copy of OOo into MS Office | Nov 23 11:47 |
DaemonFC | why bother? | Nov 23 11:47 |
DaemonFC | it's an 80 megabyte "plug-in" | Nov 23 11:47 |
oiaohm | Its temporary. | Nov 23 11:47 |
oiaohm | Until 1.2 ODF gets released and MS own ODF plugin comes into alignment. | Nov 23 11:47 |
DaemonFC | it's like saying "Sure we can make your car work, just weld this truck onto it and you'll be up and running in no time!" | Nov 23 11:48 |
oiaohm | But the documents are future stable DaemonFC | Nov 23 11:48 |
oiaohm | 80 meg price now for future stablity and in future you will not need the temp support. | Nov 23 11:48 |
DaemonFC | til you send them to another MS Office user and Microsoft's ODF mangles the ever loving crap out of it | Nov 23 11:49 |
oiaohm | It only mangles excel DaemonFC | Nov 23 11:49 |
oiaohm | Not a common sent format. | Nov 23 11:49 |
oiaohm | OOXML forumals in a ODF document kinda causes some major problems. | Nov 23 11:49 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: I ended up using Star Office for a while cause I bought a boxed set and it rang up for 1 penny | Nov 23 11:50 |
DaemonFC | that was back when they had boxed copies of Linux on the shelf | Nov 23 11:50 |
DaemonFC | you'd need to carbon date that | Nov 23 11:50 |
*ender2070_ gives channel operator status to ender2070 | Nov 23 11:50 | |
DaemonFC | I think I bought Mandrake Linux and Windows Me at the same time | Nov 23 11:50 |
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oiaohm | And MS Office trying to process ODF forumlars with OOXML engine for formulars is funny DaemonFC | Nov 23 11:50 |
oiaohm | You know kinda straight up. | Nov 23 11:51 |
oiaohm | MS Excel crashes. | Nov 23 11:51 |
DaemonFC | not surprising | Nov 23 11:51 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft's Mac software has always been better than the Windows version | Nov 23 11:51 |
DaemonFC | that's what astounds me | Nov 23 11:51 |
oiaohm | Not really. | Nov 23 11:51 |
DaemonFC | their own software is better on a Mac | Nov 23 11:52 |
oiaohm | MS Office for Mac Excel saves a document. | Nov 23 11:52 |
oiaohm | Open on windows windows can die. | Nov 23 11:52 |
oiaohm | And doing the reverse same can happen. | Nov 23 11:52 |
DaemonFC | which is funny | Nov 23 11:52 |
oiaohm | How can you say darn unstable programming. | Nov 23 11:52 |
DaemonFC | no, I mean like, The quality of their Mac software has been excellent | Nov 23 11:52 |
DaemonFC | while the Windows version sucks | Nov 23 11:52 |
oiaohm | Both are broken. | Nov 23 11:52 |
DaemonFC | IE for Mac was actually really good | Nov 23 11:53 |
oiaohm | Open windows made documents in mac and the mac suffers. | Nov 23 11:53 |
oiaohm | IE for Mac cannot process some sites IE for Windows can without failing. | Nov 23 11:53 |
DaemonFC | I doubt it would kill the entire OS | Nov 23 11:53 |
oiaohm | Mac is protected from OS killing applications. | Nov 23 11:53 |
DaemonFC | I still haven't had the RTM version of 7 BSOD on me | Nov 23 11:53 |
DaemonFC | I've had it happen on Vista a few times | Nov 23 11:54 |
oiaohm | Samba found what the MS problem was. | Nov 23 11:54 |
oiaohm | MS does not have full test suites for there formats. | Nov 23 11:54 |
oiaohm | Wine has a more complete test suit on the windows API than MS has. | Nov 23 11:55 |
DaemonFC | how would that be, exactly? | Nov 23 11:57 |
oiaohm | They never made one DaemonFC | Nov 23 11:57 |
oiaohm | There is no test suite for the MS network protocals other than sambas either. MS is party funding samba to make one for them. | Nov 23 11:58 |
oiaohm | Basically using MS produces is riding by seat of pants. By luck and hacking it works. | Nov 23 11:58 |
DaemonFC | What really makes me wonder is why people say to use Firefox when it has a worse fundamental problem than IE/ActiveX | Nov 23 11:59 |
DaemonFC | no sandboxing for plugins or extensions, they can all modify anything they want, they all have the same access as the logged in user | Nov 23 11:59 |
DaemonFC | not even IE gives anything that kind of access anymore | Nov 23 12:00 |
oiaohm | Sandboxing for plugins does not gain you much under IE. | Nov 23 12:00 |
oiaohm | Reason items like flash under windows use services running at a higher level to break sandbox. | Nov 23 12:00 |
DaemonFC | Opera has always had a well defined API that plugins are limited to | Nov 23 12:00 |
DaemonFC | it never would let a widget compromise the browser | Nov 23 12:00 |
oiaohm | Opera is breached the same. | Nov 23 12:01 |
oiaohm | Lot of the common plugins will not work if you contain them correctly on windows because they are incorrectly designed. | Nov 23 12:02 |
oiaohm | Hello hell. | Nov 23 12:02 |
DaemonFC | now that Firefox has some users, it's drawing the attention of attackers | Nov 23 12:02 |
oiaohm | Chrome has handling the exentions bit quite well. | Nov 23 12:02 |
DaemonFC | everything from Phishing to malicious extensions | Nov 23 12:02 |
MinceR | chrome has extensions? :) | Nov 23 12:03 |
oiaohm | Gears MinceR | Nov 23 12:03 |
MinceR | that isn't nearly the same thing, afaik | Nov 23 12:03 |
oiaohm | It does not allow interface altering yet. MinceR | Nov 23 12:04 |
DaemonFC | meh, Chrome still gives you no way to block ads | Nov 23 12:04 |
DaemonFC | blocking ads is simple in Opera | Nov 23 12:04 |
MinceR | you could block ads with privoxy, even though it's fiddlier | Nov 23 12:04 |
DaemonFC | if I wanted to have to use a local proxy server to filter ads, I might as will use IE | Nov 23 12:04 |
MinceR | but NoScript would be much more difficult to replace | Nov 23 12:04 |
MinceR | if all IE lacked was ad blocking, you might as well use it :> | Nov 23 12:05 |
DaemonFC | IE will never have easy ad blocking that works well | Nov 23 12:05 |
DaemonFC | I think that's the major reason why it's still losing users | Nov 23 12:05 |
MinceR | it will never have web standards support either | Nov 23 12:05 |
DaemonFC | it's getting better | Nov 23 12:06 |
DaemonFC | last IE 9 development build got 32/100 on ACID 3 | Nov 23 12:06 |
MinceR | it isn't exactly difficult to improve | Nov 23 12:06 |
DaemonFC | IE 8 got 20 | Nov 23 12:06 |
MinceR | yet m$ has already shown that they don't care | Nov 23 12:06 |
MinceR | (see their current hack) | Nov 23 12:06 |
DaemonFC | they typically are a year or three behind | Nov 23 12:07 |
DaemonFC | they get there I guess | Nov 23 12:07 |
oiaohm | No DaemonFC | Nov 23 12:07 |
MinceR | it isn't a web browser, it's a browser for something other than the web | Nov 23 12:07 |
oiaohm | Only reason MS is supporting standards is web developers are giving them no option. | Nov 23 12:07 |
MinceR | strange, web developers are giving all the other browsers the option, somehow | Nov 23 12:08 |
DaemonFC | lots of sites are turning away IE 6 users finally | Nov 23 12:08 |
MinceR | yeah, let's just pretend it isn't m$'s fault :> | Nov 23 12:08 |
DaemonFC | Opera will soon support those multimedia tags | Nov 23 12:09 |
DaemonFC | probably by 10.2 | Nov 23 12:09 |
DaemonFC | in most ways it's ahead of Mozilla Gecko | Nov 23 12:09 |
MinceR | i don't doubt that | Nov 23 12:10 |
DaemonFC | 10.1 is going to be Unite and a lot of bug fixes | Nov 23 12:10 |
DaemonFC | no rendering engine improvements it looks like | Nov 23 12:10 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #SAP #Microsoft Attack on #Java, OpenOffice.org Culminates in Alliance http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/23/microsoft-and-sap-collude/ | Nov 23 12:11 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: SAP/Microsoft Attack on Java, OpenOffice.org, Other Libre Products Culminates in Alliance | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 107.75 KB | Nov 23 12:11 |
oiaohm | http://jaxov.com/2009/09/how-to-install-google-chrome-crx-extensions/ There are more like firefox extentions plained for chrome. | Nov 23 12:13 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: How To Install Google Chrome [CRX] Extensions | Jaxov .::. Size~: 23.28 KB | Nov 23 12:13 |
DaemonFC | http://www.audible.com/adbl/site/LandingPages/bigListen.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes | Nov 23 12:14 |
DaemonFC | Free book from Audible | Nov 23 12:14 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Learning about Oracle RAC on Linux | Nov 23 12:20 | |
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zer0c00l | migueldeicaza has become a silverlight proponent http://twitter.com/migueldeicaza/status/5832723562 | Nov 23 12:24 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Twitter / Miguel de Icaza: OMG OMG OMG OMG #silverlig ... .::. Size~: 9.93 KB | Nov 23 12:24 |
zer0c00l | Why he is promoting a non free software? | Nov 23 12:25 |
MinceR | because he's a m$ proponent and always has been | Nov 23 12:25 |
zer0c00l | even he is Retweeting bullshit posts on silverlight http://twitter.com/migueldeicaza/status/5957865278 | Nov 23 12:26 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Twitter / Miguel de Icaza: RT @spouliot: "Chrome OS S ... .::. Size~: 10.14 KB | Nov 23 12:26 |
zer0c00l | Deserved to be called as a traitor ;) | Nov 23 12:26 |
zer0c00l | this is how 'open source' works? | Nov 23 12:26 |
MinceR | yes, with the apostrophes :> | Nov 23 12:27 |
zer0c00l | hmm | Nov 23 12:27 |
zer0c00l | all about money | Nov 23 12:27 |
trmanco | schestowitz: phirce has a problem with youtube, right? | Nov 23 12:38 |
MinceR | don't we all? :> | Nov 23 12:38 |
trmanco | LOL | Nov 23 12:38 |
trmanco | I guess | Nov 23 12:38 |
schestowitz | trmanco: yes | Nov 23 12:52 |
trmanco | ok | Nov 23 12:52 |
schestowitz | zer0c00l: you there? | Nov 23 12:53 |
trmanco | I'll try to fix it when I have some time | Nov 23 12:53 |
DaemonFC | After all the DRM bullshit I went through to get the free audiobook, I don't think I'll buy anything from them | Nov 23 12:53 |
schestowitz | Miguel seems to prevent me from reading his twits | Nov 23 12:53 |
schestowitz | Please quote in full the two Twits above | Nov 23 12:53 |
DaemonFC | Why pay book prices for DRM crippled nonsense in files that cost them nothing to make? | Nov 23 12:53 |
trmanco | what | Nov 23 12:54 |
trmanco | the tweets are public :S | Nov 23 12:54 |
trmanco | schestowitz: I can quote them | Nov 23 12:54 |
DaemonFC | I'd rather go to Half Price Books | Nov 23 12:55 |
DaemonFC | get a better deal there and you actually own the book | Nov 23 12:55 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: I wonder if conservatives buy 50,000 copies of their own book to put it in the best seller list | Nov 23 12:59 |
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-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] shabaa........ | Nov 23 13:01 | |
schestowitz | trmanco: please | Nov 23 13:05 |
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schestowitz | It's for my next post | Nov 23 13:05 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Google ’s (Staff) Index Poisoned by #Microsoft http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/23/murdoch-and-dodge-problem/ | Nov 23 13:06 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Googles (Staff) Index Poisoned by Microsoft | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 116.47 KB | Nov 23 13:06 |
trmanco | "RT @spouliot: "Chrome OS Success May Be Dampened By Silverlight" http://tinyurl.com/yezgk8v -I have a suggestion if anyone #google care" | Nov 23 13:07 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Google Chrome OS Success May Be Dampened By Silverlight | NetbookBoards.com .::. Size~: 45.36 KB | Nov 23 13:07 |
trmanco | "OMG OMG OMG OMG #silverligh4 has everything I wanted on it: full desktop apps with full system access" | Nov 23 13:07 |
schestowitz | Thanks | Nov 23 13:08 |
Diablo-D3 | lawl | Nov 23 13:10 |
MinceR | lol | Nov 23 13:13 |
MinceR | i can't wait to have full desktop apps with full system access! | Nov 23 13:13 |
MinceR | oh, wait | Nov 23 13:13 |
Diablo-D3 | bwhahahahaha | Nov 23 13:13 |
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oiaohm | Problem is html 5 + webgl and other upcoming we techs offer thwt Silverlight does without platform hooks. | Nov 23 13:17 |
oiaohm | we/web | Nov 23 13:17 |
MinceR | problem is none of that belongs on the web anyway :> | Nov 23 13:18 |
oiaohm | Google ideas include web applications able to run without network connetion. | Nov 23 13:19 |
oiaohm | So very much like desktop apps. | Nov 23 13:19 |
MinceR | now you can have desktop apps with 10 times the cpu and memory usage! | Nov 23 13:19 |
oiaohm | Really. | Nov 23 13:20 |
oiaohm | did you miss google native code projects. | Nov 23 13:20 |
MinceR | not really | Nov 23 13:20 |
MinceR | i'm just fine without any google projects, thanks :> | Nov 23 13:20 |
oiaohm | http://code.google.com/p/nativeclient/ | Nov 23 13:21 |
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] RD: @scorpfromhell 500 http://ff.im/-bSLVG | Nov 23 13:21 | |
oiaohm | This is really closing the tech difference between web and desktop applications MinceR | Nov 23 13:21 |
oiaohm | Silverlight is not really about closing the tech difference. | Nov 23 13:22 |
MinceR | i don't really share this enthusiasm for forcing everything onto the web for its own sake | Nov 23 13:22 |
oiaohm | Its more about being OS netural MinceR | Nov 23 13:23 |
oiaohm | Web just happens to be one of the OS netural frameworks out there. | Nov 23 13:23 |
MinceR | it also happens to be one of the more complicated ones | Nov 23 13:24 |
MinceR | and one of the least suited for desktop apps | Nov 23 13:24 |
oiaohm | Most desktop apps need a update system. | Nov 23 13:25 |
oiaohm | Web provides a way to address that problem. | Nov 23 13:25 |
MinceR | so does apt. | Nov 23 13:26 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] New F70EXR camera dispatched. I *will* be at Vagabonds on Saturday going wild with this thing. | Nov 23 13:26 | |
oiaohm | Web is really no more complex than java and .net solutions. | Nov 23 13:27 |
schestowitz | [12:54] <trmanco> the tweets are public :S | Nov 23 13:28 |
schestowitz | Not for me | Nov 23 13:28 |
schestowitz | Maybe the Microsoft lackey blocked me | Nov 23 13:28 |
trmanco | hmmm | Nov 23 13:28 |
schestowitz | Unless you follow him | Nov 23 13:28 |
schestowitz | I think that only followers can view | Nov 23 13:28 |
oiaohm | MinceR frameworks are frameworks. You have to remember stand alone or web integrated applications can be done using the web frameworks. Its a platform netural platform with intergraion as an option. People forget URL can be used for local files. | Nov 23 13:30 |
trmanco | I don't follow him | Nov 23 13:31 |
MinceR | oiaohm: the fact that you can shoehorn and hammer a desktop app into a web browser doesn't mean it's a good idea | Nov 23 13:33 |
oiaohm | MinceR: web interfaces are no more nasty than historic X11 | Nov 23 13:33 |
MinceR | you obviously don't know either the web, X11, or neither. :> | Nov 23 13:33 |
oiaohm | To be correct X11 was more nasty. | Nov 23 13:34 |
MinceR | X11 was and is designed for GUI apps. the web wasn't, and still isn't. | Nov 23 13:34 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] ♻ @singlepayer: Robrt Reich calling for a "public option for ALL Americans": http://bit.ly/8coqVn #p2 #hc09 #hcr #healthcare | Nov 23 13:35 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: The public option ain't what it used to be | Physicians for a National Health Program .::. Size~: 21.21 KB | Nov 23 13:35 |
oiaohm | X11 has no toolkits. Toolkits are addons that make it nice to use. MinceR | Nov 23 13:36 |
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MinceR | toolkits fit well into the design of X11 | Nov 23 13:36 |
oiaohm | Not at first MinceR | Nov 23 13:36 |
oiaohm | There are starts of tool kits for web for building applications. Not 100 percent nice but not as bad as some of the early X11 ones. | Nov 23 13:37 |
oiaohm | It will be the quality of the kits on top of Web will decide if its bad or good. | Nov 23 13:37 |
MinceR | yeah, let's just shovel another pile of hacks on top of it, that will surely fix it | Nov 23 13:38 |
oiaohm | You are aware X11 server does not draw windows boards. its up to the wm to do it. | Nov 23 13:39 |
MinceR | you are aware most desktop apps don't include a browser window in their GUI, right? | Nov 23 13:39 |
oiaohm | browser engine just is a rendering engine. | Nov 23 13:40 |
MinceR | sure, it's a hypertext rendering engine | Nov 23 13:40 |
MinceR | most desktop GUIs aren't just pages of hypertext | Nov 23 13:40 |
oiaohm | And that is really not a issue either. The hypertext can be just a declare to use webgl or canvas for interface. | Nov 23 13:41 |
MinceR | and it's absolutely necessary for a desktop GUI to go through all those hoops | Nov 23 13:42 |
oiaohm | QT talks to X11 then by passes to opengl. So what is the diff MinceR | Nov 23 13:43 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Novell ’s Vice President Could be Tweeting for #Microsoft Dollars http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/23/novell-silverlight-boosting/ | Nov 23 13:43 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Novells Vice President Could be Tweeting for Microsoft Dollars | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 109.14 KB | Nov 23 13:43 |
MinceR | ...and potentially trigger a couple dozen browser bugs during that | Nov 23 13:43 |
MinceR | oiaohm: the difference is that in the case of X11 those layers are much thinner and simpler | Nov 23 13:43 |
oiaohm | No different to when multi X11 servers exists. | Nov 23 13:43 |
oiaohm | Nice fun Hitting X11 server bugs. | Nov 23 13:43 |
oiaohm | X11 is only getting thin in recent years MinceR | Nov 23 13:44 |
oiaohm | Not when it was young. | Nov 23 13:44 |
MinceR | at least in this case we're using the X11 server for what it was designed, developed and tested | Nov 23 13:45 |
MinceR | meanwhile we expect the web browser to be everything and the kitchen sink | Nov 23 13:45 |
oiaohm | X11 is plained to be removed from Posix world long term and only used for remote applications. | Nov 23 13:46 |
oiaohm | X11 is really not designed to do local well and it also by current design does not do remove opengl well either. | Nov 23 13:46 |
oiaohm | remove/.remote | Nov 23 13:46 |
oiaohm | Basically something has to be made for remote that does not have its issues MinceR | Nov 23 13:47 |
oiaohm | Silverlight and Flash as options made the web option look good. | Nov 23 13:48 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @_Goblin happy monster band was fantastic, she loved it! | Nov 23 13:48 | |
MinceR | they certainly do | Nov 23 13:54 |
MinceR | but that's only because they're both braindead | Nov 23 13:54 |
MinceR | and X11 is still the best at what it does, all competing designs are way too inflexible | Nov 23 13:55 |
oiaohm | wayland beats X11 for local for flexiblity. Web beats X11 on remote responce to user events. | Nov 23 13:56 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] David Nutt spanks glib Sky News interviewer http://bit.ly/7X2fVs #nuttsack | Nov 23 13:58 | |
oiaohm | Basically X11 is halfway between two problems and solves neither perfectly. | Nov 23 13:58 |
MinceR | wayland is a subset of X11, so it hardly beats it on flexibility | Nov 23 14:03 |
oiaohm | Wayland is a subset because remote support sections of X11 get in the way of good local support. | Nov 23 14:06 |
oiaohm | That is X11 problem. MinceR. Its trying to be a remote and local interface at the same time. | Nov 23 14:07 |
oiaohm | If web provides the requirements good remote applications need. ie decent responce to users they they know there mouse click has been recived. Early on in X11 history embedding scripting languages to do this was considered. | Nov 23 14:11 |
oiaohm | To deal with that problem. | Nov 23 14:11 |
oiaohm | Most web design is focused on doing remote well. So not serving to masters two masters. The serving to two masters is what has made X11 a mess. | Nov 23 14:16 |
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Diablo-D3 | wow | Nov 23 14:17 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm and MinceR both wrong on the same subject | Nov 23 14:17 |
Diablo-D3 | amazing | Nov 23 14:17 |
Diablo-D3 | for those playing at home, Wayland is not a subset of X11 | Nov 23 14:17 |
Diablo-D3 | its a different set. | Nov 23 14:18 |
Diablo-D3 | and it exists to solve different issues | Nov 23 14:18 |
Diablo-D3 | X11 was _not_ designed to solve the issues its currently used for | Nov 23 14:18 |
Diablo-D3 | ie, it is not a desktop display server | Nov 23 14:18 |
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Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: while you were gone, I was making fun of your view of X | Nov 23 14:18 |
Diablo-D3 | your view of the entire thing is fundementally wrong | Nov 23 14:19 |
Diablo-D3 | the newest Xorg, internally, is muuuuuuuuuch different than what X once was | Nov 23 14:19 |
Diablo-D3 | largely, everything in the rendering pipeline is basically gone | Nov 23 14:19 |
oiaohm | Most of the remote support is gone Diablo-D3. | Nov 23 14:19 |
Diablo-D3 | thats not what I was talking about | Nov 23 14:20 |
Diablo-D3 | X, originally, was designed to solve a _completely different problem_ | Nov 23 14:20 |
Diablo-D3 | it was not designed for the modern desktop. period. | Nov 23 14:20 |
Diablo-D3 | end of story | Nov 23 14:20 |
Diablo-D3 | wayland has been | Nov 23 14:20 |
MinceR | oiaohm: actually, trying to be both a local and a remote interface isn't a problem | Nov 23 14:20 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: it is | Nov 23 14:20 |
MinceR | all it needs is a more detailed and strict security model | Nov 23 14:20 |
Diablo-D3 | but for a different reason | Nov 23 14:20 |
Diablo-D3 | its not up to the display server to offer remote | Nov 23 14:20 |
Diablo-D3 | its up to something else to do it. | Nov 23 14:21 |
oiaohm | Trying to do both like early X11 did only end up with major headaches. | Nov 23 14:21 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: wrong | Nov 23 14:21 |
Diablo-D3 | early X11 was _for_ remote access | Nov 23 14:21 |
Diablo-D3 | ergo, X11 has been correctly designed for that exact purpose. period. | Nov 23 14:21 |
Diablo-D3 | X11 is no longer being used for what it was meant for. period. | Nov 23 14:22 |
oiaohm | Eary for me Diablo-D3 | Nov 23 14:22 |
Diablo-D3 | modern Xorg no longer has an actual rendering pipeline anymore when using modern drivers. | Nov 23 14:22 |
Diablo-D3 | this also doubles as something bigger | Nov 23 14:22 |
oiaohm | 1989-1995 | Nov 23 14:22 |
Diablo-D3 | Wayland can _also_ use UXA drivers. | Nov 23 14:22 |
Diablo-D3 | (UXA == xrender-like pipeline using gpu hardware on the dri2 pipeline) | Nov 23 14:23 |
oiaohm | When the idea to include scripting got rejected to cure the remote lag on responce. | Nov 23 14:23 |
Diablo-D3 | (exa, the same, for dri1, works through xrender however and is inefficient) | Nov 23 14:23 |
oiaohm | And glx and other local only techs entered. | Nov 23 14:23 |
oiaohm | Creating something halfway between both and doing both jobs bad. | Nov 23 14:23 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: except you're bringing up things that have no bearing on what I said. | Nov 23 14:23 |
Diablo-D3 | [09:19:22] <Diablo-D3> early X11 was _for_ remote access | Nov 23 14:24 |
Diablo-D3 | [09:19:31] <Diablo-D3> ergo, X11 has been correctly designed for that exact purpose. period. | Nov 23 14:24 |
Diablo-D3 | [09:19:42] <Diablo-D3> X11 is no longer being used for what it was meant for. period. | Nov 23 14:24 |
Diablo-D3 | glx was a hack because people were using X incorrectly. | Nov 23 14:24 |
oiaohm | Even for remote access its not exactly correct. | Nov 23 14:24 |
Diablo-D3 | opengl is not meant for remote access | Nov 23 14:24 |
Diablo-D3 | glx over local OR remote is a hack to deal with the fact X is not for desktops. | Nov 23 14:24 |
oiaohm | Responce can be poor to users. The tech to correct than neer made it into X11 Diablo-D3 | Nov 23 14:24 |
Diablo-D3 | internally, X is no longer X | Nov 23 14:24 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: response is poor BECAUSE X IS NOT FOR DESKTOPS | Nov 23 14:25 |
Diablo-D3 | if you didnt hear me the first two times, X. IS NOT. FOR DESKTOPS. | Nov 23 14:25 |
MinceR | keep shouting, it won't be any more true. | Nov 23 14:25 |
MinceR | :> | Nov 23 14:25 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: its actually 100% true | Nov 23 14:25 |
oiaohm | Remote access application not being responce user clicking buttons mult times and having problems is not good. | Nov 23 14:25 |
Diablo-D3 | desktops didnt exist yet, and its a very poor fit for it. | Nov 23 14:25 |
oiaohm | I am not talking about desktop issues for remote Diablo-D3 | Nov 23 14:26 |
Diablo-D3 | Im talking about using X on a desktop | Nov 23 14:26 |
Diablo-D3 | its wrong, and its the wrong tool | Nov 23 14:26 |
Diablo-D3 | you can try to say Im wrong, but even all of Xorg's dev team agrees with me | Nov 23 14:26 |
oiaohm | For remote X11 never got finished. | Nov 23 14:26 |
oiaohm | So its wrong for remote as well. | Nov 23 14:26 |
MinceR | [[citation needed]] | Nov 23 14:26 |
Diablo-D3 | this is why wayland is actually proceeding | Nov 23 14:26 |
Diablo-D3 | mesaland has merged with Xorgland, and the entire rendering pipeline is ultimately gone on modern drivers | Nov 23 14:27 |
Diablo-D3 | its now handled by mesaland | Nov 23 14:27 |
oiaohm | By 1989-1995 it was basically halfway between to problems | Nov 23 14:27 |
Diablo-D3 | the input layer is also gone | Nov 23 14:27 |
oiaohm | to/two | Nov 23 14:27 |
Diablo-D3 | X now uses the evdev driver for input | Nov 23 14:27 |
Diablo-D3 | which means its kernel driven events | Nov 23 14:28 |
schestowitz | wb, fewa | Nov 23 14:28 |
Diablo-D3 | you can still use kbd and mouse, but I suggest you dont | Nov 23 14:28 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: the largest problem with remote, however, is that it should not exist | Nov 23 14:28 |
Diablo-D3 | this _needs_ be handled at a higher up layer | Nov 23 14:28 |
oiaohm | Like web with scripting to run locally so fixing the responce problem Diablo-D3 | Nov 23 14:29 |
Diablo-D3 | exactly | Nov 23 14:29 |
Diablo-D3 | ajax-driven UIs are rather perfect for this | Nov 23 14:29 |
Diablo-D3 | the end server is only a data source, it handles no logic for the UI | Nov 23 14:29 |
Diablo-D3 | a properly designed ajax webapp, the server has no session support, it has no idea what the user is doing | Nov 23 14:29 |
oiaohm | Or the old X11 server with proto scripting was prity good too other than that ending up on the junk pile because it really did cost resources locally. | Nov 23 14:30 |
Diablo-D3 | now, of course, theres lots of morons out there who have designed rather popular ajax webapps wrong... but thats their problem, not mine | Nov 23 14:30 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: except thats wrong | Nov 23 14:30 |
Diablo-D3 | thats wrong by my standards, and thats wrong by typical UNIX hacker standards | Nov 23 14:30 |
Diablo-D3 | the display server should only handle two things | Nov 23 14:31 |
Diablo-D3 | multiplexing the graphics hardware out to other apps (windows, et al) | Nov 23 14:31 |
oiaohm | It was a wrapper. Cached images so button presses due to mouse actions and the like would work Diablo-D3 | Nov 23 14:31 |
Diablo-D3 | and multiplexing the input. | Nov 23 14:31 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: you need another app for it | Nov 23 14:31 |
Diablo-D3 | and you know what happens to that app? | Nov 23 14:31 |
Diablo-D3 | you keep adding more and more and more intelligence to it until you end up with a web browser | Nov 23 14:31 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OReilly Does Not Know What Open Means (Let Alone Free) http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/23/perversion-of-openness/ | Nov 23 14:32 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: OReilly Does Not Know What Open Means (Let Alone Free) | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 108.98 KB | Nov 23 14:32 |
MinceR | because all guis are ultimately web pages | Nov 23 14:32 |
MinceR | oh wait, no they aren't | Nov 23 14:32 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: they kind of are | Nov 23 14:32 |
Diablo-D3 | it doesn't mean you're stuck using HTML, mind you | Nov 23 14:32 |
Diablo-D3 | or even that HTML is even limiting | Nov 23 14:32 |
MinceR | just that you either render text into frames or build a pile of hacks on top of it | Nov 23 14:33 |
Diablo-D3 | AIR (full flash apps on the desktop) breaks you out of the browser without losing power | Nov 23 14:33 |
MinceR | flash doesn't have much power to lose :> | Nov 23 14:33 |
Diablo-D3 | silver... silver... whatever the fuck that microsoft thing was does the same thing | Nov 23 14:33 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: no, I mean, AIR includes webkit and everything | Nov 23 14:33 |
Diablo-D3 | mozilla also has xulrunner for standalones as well | Nov 23 14:34 |
Diablo-D3 | prism or whatever its called | Nov 23 14:34 |
Diablo-D3 | all three of those represent the same thing | Nov 23 14:34 |
Diablo-D3 | typical web tech is the ultimate for light and/or remote interaction apps | Nov 23 14:34 |
Diablo-D3 | and its a great fit. | Nov 23 14:34 |
MinceR | no it isn't | Nov 23 14:35 |
Diablo-D3 | yes, it actually is. | Nov 23 14:35 |
MinceR | keep telling yourself that | Nov 23 14:35 |
Diablo-D3 | quit living in the past | Nov 23 14:35 |
MinceR | quit living in a pile of buzzwords | Nov 23 14:35 |
oiaohm | Responce to user Web beats X11 RDP VNC ..... | Nov 23 14:35 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: I can run the entire frontend of an app using html and javascript alone | Nov 23 14:35 |
Diablo-D3 | the entire logic and everything is ran in the browser | Nov 23 14:35 |
Diablo-D3 | the server only sends xml to the browser | Nov 23 14:36 |
MinceR | and can you do dialog layouts like GTK+ does without a huge pile of hacks? | Nov 23 14:36 |
oiaohm | Reason none of those I listed have a scripting language user end to provide responce so have to wait message to travel both ways. MinceR | Nov 23 14:36 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: yes, actually, I can. | Nov 23 14:36 |
MinceR | including windows in actually the correct sizes | Nov 23 14:36 |
Diablo-D3 | but the large problem is this | Nov 23 14:36 |
MinceR | and pulldown menus that actually behave like pulldown menus | Nov 23 14:36 |
Diablo-D3 | gtk is ultimately shit | Nov 23 14:36 |
Diablo-D3 | so is win32 ui shit, so is cocoa or whatever osx's shit is called | Nov 23 14:36 |
MinceR | yet it easily beats html for what it does | Nov 23 14:36 |
Diablo-D3 | that style of UI sucks | Nov 23 14:37 |
MinceR | because that's what it was designed to do | Nov 23 14:37 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: except you've misunderstood what html can actually do | Nov 23 14:37 |
MinceR | except i'm still not talking about a pile of hacks on top of html | Nov 23 14:37 |
trmanco | cool | Nov 23 14:37 |
Diablo-D3 | neither am I. | Nov 23 14:37 |
MinceR | even though i've seen a couple of those hacks and they still don't work well | Nov 23 14:37 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: but feel free to troll. | Nov 23 14:37 |
Diablo-D3 | the rest of us are embracing the future. | Nov 23 14:37 |
MinceR | Diablo-D3: trolling is your job. :> | Nov 23 14:38 |
trmanco | my download speed is beeing throttled by my low upload speed... | Nov 23 14:38 |
oiaohm | http://www.nihilogic.dk/labs/wolf/ <<That wolf game is html/javascript Using canves tech. Ok not proper opengl. MinceR | Nov 23 14:38 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Nihilogic : Javascript Wolfenstein 3D .::. Size~: 11.17 KB | Nov 23 14:38 |
MinceR | so we're supposed to move all guis into canvas on top of javascript in a browser window now? | Nov 23 14:39 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: or use a language properly suited for it | Nov 23 14:39 |
MinceR | just so we can put "ZOMG WEB" on a checklist for the user to drool over? | Nov 23 14:39 |
Diablo-D3 | mozilla has xul for that, for example | Nov 23 14:39 |
Diablo-D3 | not that Im saying xul is the best option, but it works | Nov 23 14:40 |
MinceR | yeah, xul is what makes mozilla browsers so slow | Nov 23 14:40 |
MinceR | let's all use that | Nov 23 14:40 |
oiaohm | webgl will most likely be a better option MinceR. Basically use the same stunt that QT does on X11. | Nov 23 14:40 |
Diablo-D3 | nope, mozilla's inability to code is what makes it so slow | Nov 23 14:40 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: webgl isnt quite the answer either | Nov 23 14:40 |
Diablo-D3 | although, yes, its portable | Nov 23 14:40 |
Diablo-D3 | the web needs native UI hooks through javascript | Nov 23 14:40 |
Diablo-D3 | or through another sgml or xml language | Nov 23 14:40 |
MinceR | and once you can use native UI, you can finally realize that the web doesn't really belong in the picture | Nov 23 14:41 |
Diablo-D3 | google has a lot of stuff cooking on burners | Nov 23 14:41 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: the web isnt the web anymore | Nov 23 14:41 |
Diablo-D3 | get over it | Nov 23 14:41 |
MinceR | well, it's pretty sad | Nov 23 14:41 |
MinceR | it's a bloated crapfest now | Nov 23 14:41 |
Diablo-D3 | not at all | Nov 23 14:41 |
Diablo-D3 | although, I can see why you'd get your head stuck up your ass over it | Nov 23 14:41 |
MinceR | it's like a big competition on who can eat more CPU and RAM with a page that amounts to a couple paragraphs of text in information | Nov 23 14:41 |
oiaohm | MinceR: what you don't see is X11 went threw the same kind of developers. | Nov 23 14:42 |
oiaohm | Early guis will be toolkit messes. | Nov 23 14:42 |
MinceR | Diablo-D3: your attitude isn't conducive to meaningful discussion. | Nov 23 14:42 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: neither is yours. | Nov 23 14:43 |
MinceR | btw that competition is also what leads to stuff breaking in random browsers | Nov 23 14:43 |
oiaohm | The idea that webpages have to be power bad is kinda wrong MinceR | Nov 23 14:43 |
MinceR | oiaohm: i don't understand that sentence | Nov 23 14:43 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: I heavily track new techs like this | Nov 23 14:43 |
Diablo-D3 | you dont | Nov 23 14:43 |
Diablo-D3 | Ive already written code that uses webgl, you havent. I've already dug around in the internals for chrome, you havent | Nov 23 14:43 |
MinceR | Diablo-D3: and you seem to be unable to see the big picture | Nov 23 14:44 |
MinceR | Diablo-D3: you've bought into the hype over shoveling everything into the web browser | Nov 23 14:44 |
oiaohm | Big question how are you going to service remote access MinceR. | Nov 23 14:44 |
oiaohm | You are not seeing the big picture either MinceR | Nov 23 14:44 |
oiaohm | There are two markets that need to be serviced. | Nov 23 14:44 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: no, I just described the big picture, and a large part of the history using a very small number of sentences. | Nov 23 14:45 |
oiaohm | Local desktop applications only service one market. People who are not operating remote and may not be able to install applications. | Nov 23 14:45 |
MinceR | lol | Nov 23 14:45 |
oiaohm | for remote you need items that will most likely be installed on most machines. | Nov 23 14:46 |
MinceR | oiaohm: that doesn't mean everything has to become a web application from now on | Nov 23 14:46 |
Diablo-D3 | no, but it means those same technologies make local stuff easy as well | Nov 23 14:47 |
Diablo-D3 | due to how webkit is internally designed, its extremely easy to, say, wrap wayland for a very desktop oriented design | Nov 23 14:47 |
oiaohm | You will mostly be like utorrent and other local applications have a web interface for remote. MinceR. So the applications will mostly go duel. | Nov 23 14:48 |
Diablo-D3 | X11 failed in it's task, btw, because its too low level | Nov 23 14:48 |
Diablo-D3 | apps cant describe what they're doing in sufficient detail | Nov 23 14:48 |
ender2070 | X11 is awesome | Nov 23 14:48 |
Diablo-D3 | X11 not having a widget toolkit, for example, was a huge mistake | Nov 23 14:48 |
ender2070 | nah | Nov 23 14:48 |
MinceR | no, it was what allowed multiple toolkits to use it | Nov 23 14:48 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: thats not entirely right either | Nov 23 14:49 |
MinceR | without that you'd have separate windowing systems for each toolkit | Nov 23 14:49 |
Diablo-D3 | what it needed was a local session server | Nov 23 14:49 |
ender2070 | if X11 had its own widget toolkit besides the widget toolkit it now comes with, qt and gtk might not be around | Nov 23 14:49 |
Diablo-D3 | one that wraps the display server and provides additional things | Nov 23 14:49 |
oiaohm | Mult toolkits lead to applications seaming out of place so is not right either. | Nov 23 14:49 |
MinceR | multiple toolkits are a fact of life. deal with it. | Nov 23 14:49 |
Diablo-D3 | if you ran gnome, your display server would have a gnome server to interact with it | Nov 23 14:49 |
ender2070 | multiple toolkits is a good idea | Nov 23 14:49 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: its inefficient. | Nov 23 14:50 |
Diablo-D3 | but thats not the issue | Nov 23 14:50 |
oiaohm | Freedesktop project is spending years getting the toolkits to get along now. | Nov 23 14:50 |
ender2070 | image if gnomes stupid ideas had to be used by everyone, for example | Nov 23 14:50 |
Diablo-D3 | the issue is X has no clue how to optiminally interact with it | Nov 23 14:50 |
ender2070 | imagine* | Nov 23 14:50 |
Diablo-D3 | ender2070: yes, which is why I just advocated the unix design | Nov 23 14:50 |
oiaohm | X11 could have killed the mess freedesktop is cleaning up now. | Nov 23 14:50 |
Diablo-D3 | the X server cannot be expanded, ender2070, MinceR | Nov 23 14:50 |
Diablo-D3 | thats the largest issue | Nov 23 14:50 |
Diablo-D3 | theres no way to send it information | Nov 23 14:50 |
MinceR | you claim to advocate the unix design yet you keep telling us the most unixy windowing system is crap. :> | Nov 23 14:51 |
ender2070 | yeah lol | Nov 23 14:51 |
MinceR | actually it can | Nov 23 14:51 |
oiaohm | Just by laying down a few basic toolkit bits like colours would hae cleaned up a lot. | Nov 23 14:51 |
ender2070 | you want it to be like osx and windows | Nov 23 14:51 |
ender2070 | which are very anti unix | Nov 23 14:51 |
MinceR | that's what extensions are for :> | Nov 23 14:51 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: you cant extend it using your own code, however | Nov 23 14:51 |
Diablo-D3 | I cant send it, say, a javascript blob and have it run it | Nov 23 14:51 |
Diablo-D3 | gtk cant send it half it's rendering pipeline and gtk and it just speak together with xml | Nov 23 14:52 |
Diablo-D3 | (or some binary representation) | Nov 23 14:52 |
MinceR | i don't miss xml there | Nov 23 14:52 |
MinceR | it's a markup language, not a serialization language | Nov 23 14:52 |
Diablo-D3 | get what Im saying MinceR? | Nov 23 14:52 |
oiaohm | wayland really is the Unix way. It does one thing really well. ender2070 and MinceR. And leaves most stuff to other items. | Nov 23 14:52 |
Diablo-D3 | you cant programmably extend X without recompiling X | Nov 23 14:52 |
MinceR | i see what you're missing | Nov 23 14:52 |
MinceR | it would be nice for remote apps to put some logic into the display server. | Nov 23 14:52 |
oiaohm | X11 tryed doing too many things so really was not the Unix way. | Nov 23 14:52 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: exactly | Nov 23 14:52 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: BUT | Nov 23 14:52 |
Diablo-D3 | as I said about 100 lines up | Nov 23 14:52 |
MinceR | but i don't think the web is a good way to do that. | Nov 23 14:52 |
Diablo-D3 | once you do that, you keep adding more and more shit until you have most of a web browser | Nov 23 14:53 |
MinceR | actually i don't see any current technology that does it well. | Nov 23 14:53 |
Diablo-D3 | which is why you need a local app to wrap the display server | Nov 23 14:53 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: modern browsers do it well | Nov 23 14:53 |
MinceR | you might have most of a web server, yet a web server is not what you need. | Nov 23 14:53 |
Diablo-D3 | problem is most people dont know how to use them | Nov 23 14:53 |
MinceR | s/server/browser/g | Nov 23 14:53 |
Diablo-D3 | actually, pretty much a web browser is what I need | Nov 23 14:53 |
Diablo-D3 | you know what the most complex normal port of the browser is? | Nov 23 14:54 |
Diablo-D3 | a very intelligent layout engine | Nov 23 14:54 |
oiaohm | You are aware a javascript application don't have to be talking to a webserver MinceR | Nov 23 14:54 |
MinceR | i am | Nov 23 14:54 |
oiaohm | From a webbrower | Nov 23 14:54 |
Diablo-D3 | html is just one way of interacting with the layout engine | Nov 23 14:54 |
Diablo-D3 | all ui toolkits have a subset of that engine | Nov 23 14:54 |
oiaohm | So the server side using html and webbrowers is quite open. | Nov 23 14:55 |
Diablo-D3 | ui toolkits typically prevent you from designing good UIs due to bad or otherwise forced decisions | Nov 23 14:55 |
MinceR | i'm also aware that 1) html is not suitable for normal desktop GUI designs and 2) most of the stuff that's in a web browser is unnecessary for a remote display platform | Nov 23 14:55 |
Diablo-D3 | html actually can be suitable for normal desktop GUI designs | Nov 23 14:55 |
Diablo-D3 | but no, I wouldnt use html | Nov 23 14:55 |
Diablo-D3 | I'd use xml. | Nov 23 14:55 |
ender2070 | if x11 had a ui toolkit, what do you think would happen then, bad decisions because qtk and qt wouldnt exist | Nov 23 14:55 |
Diablo-D3 | or rather, a custom designed xml lang for this | Nov 23 14:56 |
MinceR | 2) is important because it means that you have lots of bloat and browser bugs if you put all this on top of the web. | Nov 23 14:56 |
Diablo-D3 | my "theme" would be javascript and css used like you use in html | Nov 23 14:56 |
MinceR | Diablo-D3: so all the apps would use different "theme"s? | Nov 23 14:56 |
oiaohm | MinceR: 2) I answered this before. Look at X11 history there were 15 different X11 servers at one time with there unique bugs. | Nov 23 14:56 |
oiaohm | I am sorry the numbers of bugs between browers are quite min in compare to them. | Nov 23 14:57 |
MinceR | oiaohm: how many bugs would they have if you added all the web functionality on top of that? | Nov 23 14:57 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: no, but themes would stop sucking dick | Nov 23 14:57 |
oiaohm | Biggest bug is IE. If you don't support that making your applications work on web become 1000 times simpler. | Nov 23 14:57 |
ender2070 | themes dont suck dick because of that Diablo-D3 | Nov 23 14:58 |
MinceR | themes don't suck dick | Nov 23 14:58 |
Diablo-D3 | ender2070: themes suck dick because its too difficult to interact with the toolkit because the layout engine is incomplete | Nov 23 14:58 |
ender2070 | most themes suck dick everywhere, regardless of the technology | Nov 23 14:58 |
Diablo-D3 | I dunno, ender2070 | Nov 23 14:58 |
Diablo-D3 | the default chrome look is actually quite nice | Nov 23 14:58 |
oiaohm | Same system was used with early X11 as well. Applications just did not support the weaknessed one. So culled the field MinceR | Nov 23 14:58 |
MinceR | i don't like the default chrome look that much | Nov 23 14:59 |
ender2070 | the default chrome look is an invention of 2008 | Nov 23 14:59 |
Diablo-D3 | the default gtk look, any of them, is an invention of the 1980s | Nov 23 14:59 |
ender2070 | hardly | Nov 23 14:59 |
Diablo-D3 | at some point you have to stop following Xerox | Nov 23 14:59 |
ender2070 | you may be refering to motif | Nov 23 14:59 |
ender2070 | or gtk 1.x | Nov 23 14:59 |
Diablo-D3 | windows followed xerox and still does | Nov 23 14:59 |
MinceR | oiaohm: i don't see what you're talking about | Nov 23 14:59 |
Diablo-D3 | osx still does | Nov 23 14:59 |
Diablo-D3 | and gtk and qt still do | Nov 23 15:00 |
Diablo-D3 | its time to actually make apps that are friendly to humans | Nov 23 15:00 |
ender2070 | what do you mean xerox | Nov 23 15:00 |
MinceR | sure, if you call not conforming apps to web pages "following xerox" :> | Nov 23 15:00 |
Diablo-D3 | ender2070: read your history | Nov 23 15:00 |
ender2070 | i know all about xerox | Nov 23 15:00 |
Diablo-D3 | ender2070: I suggest you start with the story about the trash can. | Nov 23 15:00 |
ender2070 | why fix it if it isn't broken? | Nov 23 15:00 |
oiaohm | MinceR: At the start of the X11 desktop there were 15 different X11 servers. With different incompadiblies. How many are left. Only the ones that are low on bugs got supported by lots of applications so users stopped using the others. | Nov 23 15:00 |
oiaohm | Note it grew in the middle with some offering opengl and other things closed source MinceR. | Nov 23 15:01 |
ender2070 | why don't we just reinvent the wheel, perhaps we'll get less cars rolling down hills if they are octagonal | Nov 23 15:01 |
MinceR | oiaohm: most of those servers were proprietary, weren't they? | Nov 23 15:01 |
oiaohm | Proprierty and open MinceR | Nov 23 15:01 |
ender2070 | actually | Nov 23 15:02 |
oiaohm | All got culled MinceR | Nov 23 15:02 |
ender2070 | open source xfree86 killed them all | Nov 23 15:02 |
MinceR | that's where i'd look for the reason of death | Nov 23 15:02 |
oiaohm | xfree86 had the least bugs ender2070 | Nov 23 15:02 |
ender2070 | it kicked their asses | Nov 23 15:02 |
ender2070 | it ran on lower end hardware | Nov 23 15:02 |
fewa | geeze | Nov 23 15:03 |
oiaohm | It was not just because xfree86 was open source because there were was a BSD X11 server as well and a few other open source ones that are no more MinceR | Nov 23 15:03 |
MinceR | fewa: plural of gooze? :> | Nov 23 15:03 |
fewa | "If you you've nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear" | Nov 23 15:03 |
MinceR | fewa: everyone's got a lot to hide | Nov 23 15:04 |
fewa | Are they really using that in the UK to justify a police state? | Nov 23 15:04 |
cubezzz | we have geese over here :) | Nov 23 15:04 |
fewa | its so orwellian | Nov 23 15:04 |
MinceR | the UK is already a police state, isn't it? | Nov 23 15:04 |
ender2070 | perhaps between its open source rivals it had less bugs, but it mopped the floor with proprietary solutions | Nov 23 15:04 |
oiaohm | We want compadible browers the apps on web will put more presure to have that happen MinceR | Nov 23 15:04 |
MinceR | then again, probably most of the planet is | Nov 23 15:04 |
fewa | to justify putting up Cameras that only the police can view | Nov 23 15:04 |
fewa | and delete at their discretion? | Nov 23 15:04 |
ender2070 | im still glad to have KDE | Nov 23 15:04 |
MinceR | oiaohm: at the current level of complexity browsers won't be compatible | Nov 23 15:04 |
MinceR | oiaohm: much less if we put another layer on top | Nov 23 15:05 |
MinceR | ender2070: so am i | Nov 23 15:05 |
oiaohm | It will be last one standing MinceR | Nov 23 15:05 |
oiaohm | Sort out the compadbility issues or die MinceR | Nov 23 15:05 |
cubezzz | I got modules on fc1 I still don't know what they do | Nov 23 15:05 |
ender2070 | "its too hard" doesnt justify destroying all of x11's awesome network abilities | Nov 23 15:06 |
*MinceR dies. | Nov 23 15:06 | |
MinceR | ;) | Nov 23 15:06 |
ender2070 | vnc wishes it was as good as nx | Nov 23 15:07 |
ender2070 | this is quite decent, google is currently making a free software server for it | Nov 23 15:08 |
ender2070 | http://www.nomachine.com/ | Nov 23 15:08 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: NoMachine NX - Desktop Virtualization and Remote Access Management Software .::. Size~: 37.67 KB | Nov 23 15:08 |
oiaohm | Problem here to make network abilities great the toolkits have to be designed to work remote. | Nov 23 15:08 |
ender2070 | oiaohm -got vnc working on dialup? :) | Nov 23 15:08 |
oiaohm | I have used ajax based designed for light load over less bandwith than vnc. | Nov 23 15:09 |
cubezzz | is X becoming passé? | Nov 23 15:09 |
MinceR | iirc there was a free sw server for it already | Nov 23 15:09 |
MinceR | cubezzz: sure, to those who don't understand it | Nov 23 15:10 |
ender2070 | freenx is kind of buggy though | Nov 23 15:10 |
ender2070 | google expanded on its code iirc | Nov 23 15:10 |
ender2070 | but anyways | Nov 23 15:10 |
ender2070 | now that we got xorg, and its become modular, it opens up a lot of possibilities for improvements | Nov 23 15:11 |
oiaohm | Issue is gtk and qt basically are design for all processing at one location ie where the application is running. | Nov 23 15:14 |
oiaohm | Not to off load sections of responces to the user end. | Nov 23 15:14 |
oiaohm | Unless you can address that behaviour problem X11 will always have remote issues. | Nov 23 15:14 |
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MinceR | now i recall a particular issue with webapps: multiselect. :) | Nov 23 15:21 |
MinceR | also, context menus | Nov 23 15:21 |
oiaohm | there are existed web tool kits that get around the multiselect issue. | Nov 23 15:22 |
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oiaohm | Its not really that hard to get around. trap the mouse and draw the selection no probloms. | Nov 23 15:23 |
MinceR | can you detect ctrl+click? | Nov 23 15:23 |
MinceR | also, what about navigation with the keyboard? | Nov 23 15:23 |
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oiaohm | Right click context menus work you will see them if you ever had tried eyeos | Nov 23 15:26 |
oiaohm | The ctrl click thing I nave not seen working. | Nov 23 15:27 |
oiaohm | Navigation by keyboard is also possiable for the full window space is under the javascript control. | Nov 23 15:27 |
oiaohm | http://bytes.com/topic/javascript/answers/152063-shift-click-control-click Yep ctrl+click is detectable MinceR | Nov 23 15:30 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Shift-click, control-click - JavaScript / Ajax / DHTML answers .::. Size~: 40.76 KB | Nov 23 15:30 |
MinceR | right-click is problematic because the browser also offers useful functionality on it | Nov 23 15:31 |
oiaohm | While in the javascript controlled area it don't apply MinceR | Nov 23 15:32 |
MinceR | "javascript controlled area"? | Nov 23 15:33 |
oiaohm | right-click can be disabled by javascript then javascript provide a rendered context menu instead. Only if the area that it done above is reporting mouse actions to javascript. | Nov 23 15:34 |
oiaohm | The one thing a web app cannot do that a local app can is trap you mouse cursor. | Nov 23 15:36 |
MinceR | i suspect there are many more things than that | Nov 23 15:37 |
oiaohm | complete keyboard trapping is possiable. | Nov 23 15:37 |
oiaohm | As long as mouse is above it. | Nov 23 15:37 |
oiaohm | Lack of interfaces to opengl is a temp problem. | Nov 23 15:40 |
oiaohm | Simply the limitations you are bring up were no more about 6 years ago MinceR | Nov 23 15:41 |
oiaohm | The limitations are quite small there are insane items like ajax vnc servers around. And yes all desktop applications with keycombinations and all work. | Nov 23 15:44 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Builds Coalitions of NGOs, Makes Political and Educational Changes http://ur1.ca/gdiu | Nov 23 16:08 | |
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schestowitz | Wow. Even BN's dedicated server cannot meet capacity... | Nov 23 16:10 |
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MinceR | btw i wonder if they're planning on fixing font rendering in chromium :> | Nov 23 16:16 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Amazon Oneclick cousin "by this online and send it as a gift" patent granted by the USPTO: http://i5.be/UT | Nov 23 16:19 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Slashdot Your Rights Online Story | Amazon Scores Gift-Delivery Patent .::. Size~: 112.3 KB | Nov 23 16:19 |
cubezzz | fm radio card is rather noisy | Nov 23 16:20 |
cubezzz | CBC radio 1 isn't noisy at all, CIUT is really noisy | Nov 23 16:21 |
cubezzz | CIUT, hmmm that's buffalo I think | Nov 23 16:21 |
cubezzz | what, no toronto | Nov 23 16:22 |
cubezzz | why is it so bad then | Nov 23 16:22 |
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Balrog | schestowitz: server issues again? | Nov 23 16:42 |
schestowitz | Hmmm... no pages? | Nov 23 16:56 |
schestowitz | It's up and running, under heavy load though | Nov 23 16:56 |
schestowitz | Did you not get a page? | Nov 23 16:56 |
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] hehehe RD: @abbe: http://i.imgur.com/zVn91.jpg #google #wave | Nov 23 16:56 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Windows at the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and #NASA http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/23/faa-and-nasa-msft-dependent-mingling/ | Nov 23 17:02 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Windows at the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and NASA | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 107.47 KB | Nov 23 17:02 |
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-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Listening to "ஏதோ செய்கிறாய், என்னை ஏதோ செய்கிறாய்,என்னை என்னிடம் நீ அறிமுகம் செய்கிறாய்..." song in headphones and shaking my head.. :D | Nov 23 17:11 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Sued Over #Xbox 360 Again, Lawsuit for Banning Likely Too http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/23/sued-over-xbox-360-ban/ | Nov 23 17:21 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] BBC News - New iPhone worm can act like botnet say experts http://tinyurl.com/ykgpnov | Nov 23 17:31 | |
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Omar87 | Hi all. | Nov 23 17:44 |
Omar87 | schestowitz: hey, Roy, checkout this asshole: http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/hiner/?p=3372&tag=nl.e101 | Nov 23 17:45 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: TechRepublic Blogs: For IT professionals, by IT professionals .::. Size~: 83.38 KB | Nov 23 17:45 |
Balrog | schestowitz: it's working; I only read the scrollback | Nov 23 17:45 |
Omar87 | check out* | Nov 23 17:45 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] General Electric (GE) Attacks #FreeSoftware, #Microsoft Style http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/23/dirty-laundry-at-general-electric/ | Nov 23 17:49 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: General Electric (GE) Attacks Free Software, Microsoft Style | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 106.52 KB | Nov 23 17:49 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Demo of #Amarok 2.2.0 (KDE 4) http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/23/amarok-2-2-0-as-ogg/ | Nov 23 17:56 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Demo of Amarok 2.2.0 (KDE 4) | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 102.92 KB | Nov 23 17:56 |
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cubezzz | Hiner is just another non-programmer journalist | Nov 23 18:15 |
cubezzz | he doesn't get it | Nov 23 18:15 |
cubezzz | just go back to kowtowing | Nov 23 18:15 |
cubezzz | notice in the comments a lot of people are making anti-windows remarks | Nov 23 18:17 |
cubezzz | windows isn't the pinnacle | Nov 23 18:17 |
cubezzz | just like McDonalds isn't the best restaurant | Nov 23 18:17 |
cubezzz | I'm not even going to read the rest of the comments | Nov 23 18:18 |
cubezzz | Hiner is just flame-baiting | Nov 23 18:19 |
cubezzz | the situation is just sad really (with the OEMs) | Nov 23 18:20 |
cubezzz | the fact of the matter is linux market-share is increasing | Nov 23 18:24 |
cubezzz | even on the desktop, it's probably higher than 1% | Nov 23 18:24 |
cubezzz | how can you even measure it accurately? | Nov 23 18:25 |
cubezzz | compare something like Fedora 11 to Vista or Windows 7 | Nov 23 18:25 |
cubezzz | seriously, which would you rather use, it's not even close! | Nov 23 18:26 |
cubezzz | are we living in a overly consumerish society where big and bloated is better? | Nov 23 18:26 |
cubezzz | even on Hiner's own graph you can see it's going up | Nov 23 18:30 |
Omar87 | "Seeking customer value at Microsoft is like seeking vitamin C in cocaine.You'll only get addicted to cocaine, you'll start having the illusion that this is what you've been looking for, and an over doze will kill you in no time." | Nov 23 18:33 |
schestowitz | Omar87: Hiner is a Microsoft guy | Nov 23 18:46 |
schestowitz | He trashed FOSS and admires Microsoft, that's why I avoid him | Nov 23 18:46 |
schestowitz | Omar87: don't feed him | Nov 23 18:47 |
schestowitz | It's like this "game over" pitch | Nov 23 18:47 |
schestowitz | Like they said Vista 7 would "kill Linux"... as they said about Vista... | Nov 23 18:47 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Microsoft in exclusive search-engine deal with Murdoch http://notnews.today.com/?p=750 | Nov 23 18:49 | |
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tessier | I think Murdoch is just cutting himself out of the news business. | Nov 23 18:50 |
Omar87 | schestowitz: I agree. | Nov 23 18:50 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Bilski , #USPTO and Justice for the Rich Only; ‘Community’ Patent and ‘Harmonisation’ in Europe http://ur1.ca/gdua | Nov 23 18:51 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Patents Roundup: Bilski, USPTO and Justice for the Rich Only; Community Patent and Harmonisation in Europe | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 124.41 KB | Nov 23 18:51 |
schestowitz | Omar87: There will always be some ZD-Idiot trying to provoke with these types of 'op-eds' | Nov 23 18:52 |
schestowitz | Always. | Nov 23 18:52 |
schestowitz | Even when Linux has 50% market share on the desktop ;-) | Nov 23 18:52 |
schestowitz | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1563063/oracle-eu-extension | Nov 23 18:53 |
Omar87 | schestowitz: That's right. | Nov 23 18:53 |
Omar87 | :) | Nov 23 18:53 |
schestowitz | tessier: more like "cuts off nose to spite his face" | Nov 23 18:53 |
schestowitz | Linux has around 10% on phones and growing fast | Nov 23 18:54 |
schestowitz | It has 90% in Top500 | Nov 23 18:54 |
schestowitz | It has a huge market in embedded systems | Nov 23 18:54 |
schestowitz | In all these areas Linux seems to be well ahead of Windows | Nov 23 18:54 |
Omar87 | schestowitz: the amazing thing here is that even after all these news about entire countries who began planning to switch their infrastustures to Free software, You still find these idiots yapping. :) | Nov 23 18:55 |
tessier | We are getting a couple of new Windows 7 systems here at the office. It's hard to convince some people to go with Linux. | Nov 23 18:55 |
tessier | Omar87: Unfortunately most of those stories are just hype. :( | Nov 23 18:55 |
schestowitz | London Stock Exchange gets the facts and dumps Windows for Linux < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/28359/1141/ > | Nov 23 18:55 |
Omar87 | tessier: I don't think so. | Nov 23 18:55 |
tessier | Omar87: What country has moved their infrastructure to Free Software? | Nov 23 18:55 |
Omar87 | tessier: Take Italy for example. | Nov 23 18:55 |
Omar87 | tessier: there's an entire city over there that runs on 100% free software. | Nov 23 18:56 |
schestowitz | Germany, France... increasingly | Nov 23 18:56 |
schestowitz | my sister is forced to work with Linux | Nov 23 18:56 |
schestowitz | GE uses it secretly | Nov 23 18:56 |
Omar87 | schestowitz: yeah, and Russia. | Nov 23 18:56 |
schestowitz | Brazil | Nov 23 18:56 |
Omar87 | Brazil, Venezuela. | Nov 23 18:56 |
schestowitz | Kerala | Nov 23 18:57 |
schestowitz | zer0c00l` would know.. | Nov 23 18:57 |
schestowitz | Kerala houses 30 million people, IIRC | Nov 23 18:57 |
schestowitz | ANd others like Tamil Nadu follow suit | Nov 23 18:57 |
schestowitz | But they run SLED :-( | Nov 23 18:57 |
zer0c00l` | schestowitz: yes ELCOT runs SLED | Nov 23 18:58 |
zer0c00l` | schestowitz: Schools in Tamilnadu runs SLED | Nov 23 18:58 |
schestowitz | amarsh04: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1563044/supercomputer-gpu-cluster | Nov 23 18:58 |
schestowitz | :-( SLED... | Nov 23 18:58 |
zer0c00l` | schestowitz: They started using it long before MS Novell deal | Nov 23 18:58 |
schestowitz | GNOME... | Nov 23 18:58 |
schestowitz | zer0c00l`: yes, around 206 | Nov 23 18:59 |
zer0c00l` | yes | Nov 23 18:59 |
schestowitz | *006 | Nov 23 18:59 |
zer0c00l` | Elcot now promotes ubuntu | Nov 23 18:59 |
zer0c00l` | though ELCOT is currently inactive , still they using Free software | Nov 23 18:59 |
zer0c00l` | something is better than nothing :) | Nov 23 18:59 |
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zer0c00l` | ELCOT MD got fired :( | Nov 23 19:00 |
zer0c00l` | AFAIK, he is a good man | Nov 23 19:00 |
cubezzz | forced to work with Linux? | Nov 23 19:00 |
zer0c00l` | cubezzz: who? | Nov 23 19:01 |
zer0c00l` | no one is forced | Nov 23 19:01 |
schestowitz | "Last week SAS announced to the world that it was giving an evil British copycat a good kicking for nicking its software. SAS is claiming that WP ran its software to study and copy it, and has been selling its copy." http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1563010/small-british-outfit-takes-us-software-giant | Nov 23 19:01 |
zer0c00l` | he was transfered to another department | Nov 23 19:01 |
schestowitz | I think I wrote about it | Nov 23 19:02 |
zer0c00l` | schestowitz: yes :) | Nov 23 19:02 |
*zer0c00l` is now known as zer0c00l | Nov 23 19:02 | |
schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/11/microsoft-as-political-movement/ | Nov 23 19:02 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsoft as Political Movement in the US, Maybe India Too | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 119.05 KB | Nov 23 19:02 |
schestowitz | "In other news, something is happening which involves a former ELCOT officer. ELCOT’s success story with GNU/Linux (Ballnux unfortunately) was noted in a video that can be found here and we believe there may have an important update that relates to previous coverage of what Microsoft does in India..." | Nov 23 19:02 |
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Current #Cell generation is last onel http://ur1.ca/gdv6 | Nov 23 19:06 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: IBM PowerXCell-8i processor said to be last of its kind, but Cell will live on -- Engadget .::. Size~: 132.51 KB | Nov 23 19:06 |
schestowitz | http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/11/23/helix_wind/ | Nov 23 19:09 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Wind turbines to power phone masts • Register Hardware .::. Size~: 19.55 KB | Nov 23 19:09 |
schestowitz | Watch how drug companies here cause Flu hysteria. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zT9fxhrjoQc | Nov 23 19:15 |
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amarsh04 | schestowitz, try this link: http://www.csiro.au/resources/GPU-cluster.html | Nov 23 19:24 |
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amarsh04 | the link still works fine for me | Nov 23 19:26 |
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schestowitz | *LOL* | Nov 23 19:37 |
schestowitz | "Whether this was a good move or bad move is mostly a matter of opinion. Clearly, however, we are not going UNIX. We are now headed the same direction Macintosh and Windows are. A single program to rule them all. The extreme of this being Google Chromium OS." | Nov 23 19:37 |
schestowitz | If Chrome OS is the future of Linux, then GOd help us :-) | Nov 23 19:37 |
schestowitz | http://elevenislouder.blogspot.com/2009/11/future-of-linux.html | Nov 23 19:37 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Eleven is Louder: The Future of Linux .::. Size~: 86.86 KB | Nov 23 19:37 |
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schestowitz | MinceR: http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2009/11/22/government-is-good-doncha-know/ | Nov 23 19:45 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Government Is Good, Doncha Know - Homeland Stupidity .::. Size~: 46.73 KB | Nov 23 19:45 |
schestowitz | "Video games depicting war have come under fire for flouting laws governing armed conflicts." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8373794.stm | Nov 23 19:47 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 85.83 KB | Nov 23 19:47 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] It's probaby time for Dell to advertise a unique OS. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8369626.stm | Nov 23 19:53 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 85.83 KB | Nov 23 19:53 |
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sebsebseb | hi | Nov 23 19:55 |
schestowitz | http://www.my-seo-company.com/index.php?linux&release=Chrome%20OS%200.4.22.8 | Nov 23 19:56 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Chrome OS 0.4.22.8 Screenshots - Screenshots of Chrome OS 0.4.22.8 - Linux, BSD, and Solaris Screenshots .::. Size~: 24 KB | Nov 23 19:56 |
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schestowitz | Ouch!! http://hackfud.net/2009/11/21/disaster/ "I had a massive server crash, it was awful – I lost everything – including my emails for the past 2 years! Seriously, if you don’t want to lose 2 years of hard work, BACK YOUR STUFF UP! I should know this already, having been in IT for more than 20 years. A hard lesson has been learned." | Nov 23 20:03 |
schestowitz | I've been reading this guy for a while | Nov 23 20:03 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Did you back up this week? If not, do something nice for yourself. http://hackfud.net/2009/11/21/disaster/ | Nov 23 20:11 | |
schestowitz | http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2009/11/constructive-negativity.html | Nov 23 20:14 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: aseigo: constructive negativity .::. Size~: 149.01 KB | Nov 23 20:14 |
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*schestowitz reading through.. http://www.artofcommunityonline.org/2009/09/18/the-art-of-community-now-available-for-free-download/ | Nov 23 20:27 | |
trmanco | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-November/029604.html | Nov 23 20:31 |
trmanco | NOBODY CARES | Nov 23 20:31 |
trmanco | whoops | Nov 23 20:31 |
_goblin | I care! | Nov 23 20:35 |
_goblin | oh and Hi! | Nov 23 20:35 |
_goblin | mmm suspicious | Nov 23 20:36 |
_goblin | "I never had a problem with Vista.....like everyone says......Windows 7 rocks!" | Nov 23 20:36 |
_goblin | so if he never had a problem with Vista, why upgrade? | Nov 23 20:36 |
PetoKraus | hmm i've just got my new 1TB WD HDD | Nov 23 20:37 |
PetoKraus | it's the green series | Nov 23 20:37 |
PetoKraus | yummy yummy | Nov 23 20:37 |
Ender2070 | why not have the latest? | Nov 23 20:38 |
Ender2070 | of anything | Nov 23 20:38 |
schestowitz | trmanco: http://linuxhelp.blogspot.com/2009/11/gimp-going-to-get-boot-in-ubuntu-lucid.html | Nov 23 20:39 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: GIMP going to get the boot in Ubuntu Lucid | All about Linux .::. Size~: 79.74 KB | Nov 23 20:39 |
schestowitz | See arguments vs it | Nov 23 20:39 |
schestowitz | Ender2070: no SP | Nov 23 20:40 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Nice list: http://recombu.com/news/ten-things-mobiles-have-made-or-will-make-obsolete_M11191.html Add navigaton devices and calculators | Nov 23 20:40 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Ten things mobiles have made, or will make, obsolete - Recombu :: read > compare > buy .::. Size~: 24.95 KB | Nov 23 20:40 |
PetoKraus | schestowitz, not really | Nov 23 20:40 |
PetoKraus | i've been reading about that list on /. couple of days ago | Nov 23 20:40 |
PetoKraus | it's quite pish journo | Nov 23 20:40 |
schestowitz | _goblin: anyone stupid enough to embrace Vista is likely to be stupid enough to also use Vista 7 | Nov 23 20:40 |
schestowitz | Some recent 'study' showed that most Vista 7 users are just refugees of Vista *rap | Nov 23 20:41 |
Ender2070 | win7 is vista sp3 | Nov 23 20:41 |
Ender2070 | with a new taskbar | Nov 23 20:41 |
schestowitz | PetoKraus: Depends, I guess | Nov 23 20:41 |
PetoKraus | i mean | Nov 23 20:41 |
schestowitz | It just made me thing of some things | Nov 23 20:41 |
PetoKraus | watch replacement? | Nov 23 20:41 |
PetoKraus | seriously? | Nov 23 20:41 |
schestowitz | Yeah. | Nov 23 20:42 |
PetoKraus | didn't ev en bother reading after that | Nov 23 20:42 |
schestowitz | Ender2070: and previews that improve slightly (read: made more like KDE4) | Nov 23 20:42 |
schestowitz | http://williampatry.blogspot.com/2005/08/yoga-and-copyright.html | Nov 23 20:43 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: The Patry Copyright Blog: Yoga and Copyright .::. Size~: 96.86 KB | Nov 23 20:43 |
schestowitz | Is the Spirit of Competition in the Soul of Yoga? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/19/fashion/19fitness.html?_r=1&th&emc=th | Nov 23 20:44 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: The New York Times > Log In .::. Size~: 9.73 KB | Nov 23 20:44 |
schestowitz | Sri Lanka vows to free 130,000 Tamil refugees http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/22/sri-lanka-frees-tamil-refugees | Nov 23 20:44 |
schestowitz | Celebrities lead charge against Scientology http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/22/scientology-cruise-haggis-us-australia | Nov 23 20:47 |
MinceR | that's nice | Nov 23 20:51 |
schestowitz | http://www.itwire.com/content/view/29543/1141/ Does RMS deserve a Nobel Peace Prize for GNU? How about RMS or Tim B-L for a Nobel prize. They did a lot more. | Nov 23 20:55 |
schestowitz | Opera 10 is out NOW | Nov 23 20:57 |
trmanco | 10.10 is | Nov 23 20:58 |
trmanco | I got an update today | Nov 23 20:58 |
trmanco | it only brings something called opera unite to the browser | Nov 23 20:59 |
Ender2070 | aweful | Nov 23 21:01 |
Ender2070 | that sounds like a communist technology | Nov 23 21:02 |
cubezzz | eh? | Nov 23 21:03 |
schestowitz | ?????? http://www.liliputing.com/2009/11/is-firefox-to-blame-for-netbook-overheating.html ? | Nov 23 21:04 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Is Firefox to blame for netbook overheating? .::. Size~: 24.81 KB | Nov 23 21:04 |
trmanco | yeah, blame the browser | Nov 23 21:04 |
trmanco | typical | Nov 23 21:04 |
MinceR | lol | Nov 23 21:04 |
trmanco | browser never use third party plugins or stuff like that | Nov 23 21:05 |
trmanco | so blame the browser | Nov 23 21:05 |
trmanco | and yes, I'm talking about flash | Nov 23 21:05 |
trmanco | uses* | Nov 23 21:05 |
Ender2070 | oh that netbook | Nov 23 21:06 |
Ender2070 | it turned out to be a gecko plugin, in opera that did it | Nov 23 21:06 |
cubezzz | a lot of computers run too hot | Nov 23 21:06 |
cubezzz | bad engineering | Nov 23 21:06 |
Ender2070 | Opera, "It'll stop burning when the fat lady sings" | Nov 23 21:07 |
MinceR | if a laptop overheats from a software issue then it's crap | Nov 23 21:07 |
cubezzz | yes I tend to agree | Nov 23 21:07 |
trmanco | yeah | Nov 23 21:08 |
MinceR | (perhaps not if it's a driver issue, but i wish they didn't take shortcuts that could endanger the hw that way) | Nov 23 21:08 |
Ender2070 | it was a macbook air | Nov 23 21:08 |
MinceR | that explains it | Nov 23 21:08 |
trmanco | it's gotta be prepared to handle max cpu utilization for example | Nov 23 21:08 |
MinceR | crApple products tend to smoke, burn and explode | Nov 23 21:08 |
cubezzz | some cpus will under-clock if they get too hot | Nov 23 21:08 |
trmanco | and leak | Nov 23 21:08 |
Ender2070 | "it wasnt the battery, it was FIREFOX! fire! get it!" | Nov 23 21:08 |
trmanco | which ones? from amd? | Nov 23 21:08 |
MinceR | :) | Nov 23 21:08 |
cubezzz | e.g. P4 mobility | Nov 23 21:09 |
trmanco | oh, intel | Nov 23 21:09 |
Ender2070 | the P4 is the cause of global warming | Nov 23 21:09 |
Ender2070 | turn that thing off | Nov 23 21:09 |
MinceR | lol | Nov 23 21:09 |
*MinceR has a P4 machine turned on right now | Nov 23 21:09 | |
MinceR | it's my TV set currently :> | Nov 23 21:10 |
cubezzz | so which CPU should we be using? | Nov 23 21:10 |
Ender2070 | do you prefer to light your money on fire first | Nov 23 21:10 |
Ender2070 | lol | Nov 23 21:10 |
Ender2070 | anything but p4 | Nov 23 21:10 |
cubezzz | yeah well my ol' zaurus runs nice and cool | Nov 23 21:10 |
Ender2070 | you could even get netbooks faster than a p4 | Nov 23 21:11 |
Ender2070 | minus graphics card, maybe | Nov 23 21:11 |
cubezzz | Intel Core i7 perhaps | Nov 23 21:14 |
MinceR | i doubt an Atom N280 (1.66 GHz) is as fast as a P4 at 2.4 GHz | Nov 23 21:14 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Watching Miranda...after being reminded about it by a friend....on BBCiplayer....for a modern comedy, its not bad.... | Nov 23 21:23 | |
cubezzz | top cpu: Intel Core i7 940 @ 2.93 GHz | Nov 23 21:23 |
schestowitz | http://intelligent-enterprise.informationweek.com/blog/archives/2009/11/google_chrome_o_1.html;jsessionid=1EIBM5QBPYYUXQE1GHOSKH4ATMY32JVN NC.... | Nov 23 21:24 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 23 21:24 |
cubezzz | top video card: Radeon HD 5870 | Nov 23 21:25 |
schestowitz | http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Opera-10-10-closes-extremely-severe-hole-866803.html | Nov 23 21:25 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Opera 10.10 closes "extremely severe" hole - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 31.08 KB | Nov 23 21:25 |
schestowitz | Intel calls its CPUs "Core" because it's taking a core dump on competition | Nov 23 21:25 |
cubezzz | now most power _efficient_ is a totally different story | Nov 23 21:26 |
cubezzz | the ARM Cortex-A8 looks pretty good | Nov 23 21:27 |
cubezzz | ok, now there is a A9 | Nov 23 21:28 |
cubezzz | which I don't think you can actually buy yet | Nov 23 21:29 |
Diablo-D3 | you can | Nov 23 21:30 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: and btw | Nov 23 21:30 |
Diablo-D3 | those are just designs | Nov 23 21:30 |
Diablo-D3 | they're not actual chips | Nov 23 21:30 |
Diablo-D3 | ARM doesnt work that way | Nov 23 21:30 |
cubezzz | hmmm | Nov 23 21:30 |
Diablo-D3 | so one A8 isnt the same as another | Nov 23 21:30 |
cubezzz | I think there's a 1 Ghz one from Samsung | Nov 23 21:33 |
Diablo-D3 | yes, but mhz isnt exactly the issue | Nov 23 21:34 |
Diablo-D3 | they're safe for several fab sizes | Nov 23 21:34 |
Diablo-D3 | the A9s can be fabbed at 32 and 20nm iirc | Nov 23 21:34 |
Diablo-D3 | we cant even do 20 yet | Nov 23 21:35 |
Diablo-D3 | not only that, chips use increasingly less power the slower they get | Nov 23 21:35 |
Diablo-D3 | that 1ghz chip at 500mhz uses less than half the power | Nov 23 21:36 |
cubezzz | I see a lot of Intel Atom stuff | Nov 23 21:38 |
cubezzz | oh well, got to figure this stuff out before I buy anything | Nov 23 21:38 |
cubezzz | I'm way overdue for a new box | Nov 23 21:39 |
Diablo-D3 | atom sucks, btw | Nov 23 21:39 |
Diablo-D3 | its totally fucked up | Nov 23 21:39 |
Diablo-D3 | the cpu itself is fineish | Nov 23 21:39 |
Diablo-D3 | the northbridge USES TWICE THE FUCKING POWER | Nov 23 21:39 |
Diablo-D3 | otoh | Nov 23 21:40 |
Diablo-D3 | you have arms | Nov 23 21:40 |
Diablo-D3 | which are socs | Nov 23 21:40 |
Diablo-D3 | they are their own northbridge | Nov 23 21:40 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: btw | Nov 23 21:41 |
Diablo-D3 | heres another interesting thing | Nov 23 21:41 |
Diablo-D3 | in the whole scheme of things | Nov 23 21:41 |
Diablo-D3 | cortex-a8 is arm12 | Nov 23 21:41 |
Diablo-D3 | but this doesn't directly mean arm11 is doomed | Nov 23 21:41 |
Diablo-D3 | companies can, and do, tweak the hell out of their designs | Nov 23 21:41 |
Diablo-D3 | there are current gen arm11s that meet or beat last gen a8s | Nov 23 21:42 |
Diablo-D3 | and are only a bit behind current gen a8s | Nov 23 21:42 |
Diablo-D3 | but back to the wattage issue | Nov 23 21:42 |
Diablo-D3 | a current gen arm anything powerful uses less than 10 watts. | Nov 23 21:43 |
Diablo-D3 | a single core atom uses about 5 watts, and the 945 northbridge for the arms use about 15 watts or so | Nov 23 21:43 |
Diablo-D3 | so the entire arm platform is using less than 10, and the entire atom platform is using about 25 | Nov 23 21:44 |
Diablo-D3 | yet the arm, most likely, is kicking the shit out of the atom in cpu and gpu performance | Nov 23 21:44 |
Diablo-D3 | for example, they have ARM solutions that can decode high bitrate 1080p h264 | Nov 23 21:45 |
Diablo-D3 | they're obviously not in smartphones | Nov 23 21:45 |
Diablo-D3 | but its there | Nov 23 21:45 |
schestowitz | http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2009/11/23/harvey-and-anita/ | Nov 23 21:53 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: schestowitz.com » Blog Archive » Harvey and Anita: Best Couple in the World .::. Size~: 30.96 KB | Nov 23 21:53 |
Ender2070 | arm is pretty nice | Nov 23 21:53 |
schestowitz | For phones... | Nov 23 21:57 |
schestowitz | Not good for a super user's PC | Nov 23 21:57 |
schestowitz | Or power [pun] user | Nov 23 21:57 |
schestowitz | Does Terrasoft still sell these under their new owner? | Nov 23 21:58 |
MinceR | hopefully they'll get powerful enough to compete with powerful PCs | Nov 23 21:58 |
MinceR | i think i'd prefer ARM to x86 :> | Nov 23 21:58 |
schestowitz | http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/161185,my-life-with-linux-day-3----the-daily-ups-and-downs-of-switching-to-open-source.aspx | Nov 23 22:05 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: My life with Linux: Day 3 - The daily ups and downs of switching to open source - News - PC Authority .::. Size~: 158.02 KB | Nov 23 22:05 |
schestowitz | Linux virgins tries Linu,x impatient | Nov 23 22:05 |
schestowitz | He can't figure out why it's not like Windows | Nov 23 22:05 |
schestowitz | It's like Windows indoctrination leave them with bad sectors/neurons | Nov 23 22:06 |
schestowitz | "Now, where's that "Start" button for a _shutdown_ thingie?" | Nov 23 22:06 |
schestowitz | I can totally see this guy installing Gentoo (when MinceR runs Chrome OS as his main platform) | Nov 23 22:08 |
PetoKraus | lol | Nov 23 22:09 |
PetoKraus | the best email address ever | Nov 23 22:09 |
PetoKraus | death--bunny@*mail.com | Nov 23 22:09 |
PetoKraus | customer ^^ | Nov 23 22:10 |
schestowitz | PetoKraus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZU_rCvoTw | Nov 23 22:10 |
schestowitz | No idea if you know Trigger happy | Nov 23 22:10 |
PetoKraus | the music is Pj Harvey | Nov 23 22:11 |
MinceR | lol | Nov 23 22:11 |
schestowitz | *LOL* http://www.cracked.com/funny-2098-windows-7/ | Nov 23 22:13 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Windows 7 | Cracked.com .::. Size~: 41.58 KB | Nov 23 22:13 |
Ender2070 | why not just run the browser one | Nov 23 22:14 |
schestowitz | PetoKraus: I think it was on Channel 4 back when I was watching a lot of TV | Nov 23 22:15 |
schestowitz | Ender2070: cause the OS too needs to have the kids' toy icon | Nov 23 22:15 |
schestowitz | Google Chrome: http://images.teamsugar.com/files/upl2/2/22864/21_2009/04c227c0fa99a888_simon.xlarge.jpg | Nov 23 22:16 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 23 22:16 |
schestowitz | Sophisticated! | Nov 23 22:16 |
cubezzz | ok, so I'm looking for an ARM based device then | Nov 23 22:17 |
Ender2070 | you can get that | Nov 23 22:17 |
schestowitz | They gave Simon for Ballmer.... upon his birth to SMASH on the wall | Nov 23 22:19 |
schestowitz | http://www.vijayforvictory.com/wp-content/plugins/nextgen-gallery/nggshow.php?pid=170&width=600&height=450&mode= | Nov 23 22:20 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 23 22:20 |
schestowitz | The MinceR Law: if !browser, than fail(); | Nov 23 22:21 |
schestowitz | http://lifehacker.com/5410807/opera-1010-with-unite-media-server-released | Nov 23 22:21 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Opera 10.10 with Unite Media Server Released - Opera - Lifehacker .::. Size~: 64.63 KB | Nov 23 22:21 |
*MinceR doesn't get it | Nov 23 22:22 | |
trmanco | "reinvent the web" | Nov 23 22:28 |
trmanco | get it? | Nov 23 22:28 |
schestowitz | Google only succeeds with things tied to search... books, mail (adverts), usenet.... | Nov 23 22:28 |
trmanco | I mean, the browser | Nov 23 22:29 |
schestowitz | No, I meant about Chrome | Nov 23 22:29 |
schestowitz | MinceR was very right | Nov 23 22:29 |
schestowitz | He said last year that Google is stagnant everywhere but search. Android is picking up some steam now though | Nov 23 22:29 |
schestowitz | I doubt Android is profitable, but the model there is different. Biz model is about moving people to Googlverse | Nov 23 22:30 |
schestowitz | Chrome OS I found vain | Nov 23 22:30 |
schestowitz | "You don't need any apps..." | Nov 23 22:30 |
schestowitz | "You don't need HDD" | Nov 23 22:30 |
schestowitz | "We got it all for you... use our apps, our browser ('OS'), put your data on our hard drive and trust us...." | Nov 23 22:31 |
schestowitz | http://www.tgdaily.com/networking-features/44775-sun-introduces-qcloud-basedq-desktop | Nov 23 22:31 |
schestowitz | Sun is trying it too now | Nov 23 22:31 |
schestowitz | NC resurrected. | Nov 23 22:31 |
MinceR | oh, you wrote "browser" instead of "search" :) | Nov 23 22:33 |
schestowitz | Oops. | Nov 23 22:34 |
schestowitz | That'd be Mozilla | Nov 23 22:34 |
schestowitz | Sutor's blog became boring after OOXML struggles... http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-open/?p=4665 | Nov 23 22:37 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: 3 days, 3 photos of Boston | Blog | Bob Sutor .::. Size~: 49.46 KB | Nov 23 22:37 |
schestowitz | So many blogs just 'die' after a while... microblogging partly to blame | Nov 23 22:37 |
schestowitz | Another thing is, so many people have blogs now so it's no longer a unique thing or something that's hip or new. Geocities is dead now, MySpace is dying | Nov 23 22:38 |
schestowitz | Sooner or later not many people will even do microblogs | Nov 23 22:38 |
schestowitz | http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10396076-64.html | Nov 23 22:42 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Firefox: Heat and the CPU usage problem | Nanotech - The Circuits Blog - CNET News .::. Size~: 166.84 KB | Nov 23 22:42 |
schestowitz | Internet Expoder: Vomit and the GPU stench issue | Nov 23 22:43 |
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schestowitz | http://www.itworld.com/security/85698/where-google-chrome-security-fails-password | Nov 23 22:46 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Where Google Chrome security fails: the password | ITworld .::. Size~: 84.46 KB | Nov 23 22:46 |
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schestowitz | Heh. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz0D1KTAWfk | Nov 23 23:02 |
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cubezzz | ok, saw the Star trek movie, hrmmm | Nov 23 23:16 |
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_goblin | sort of sci fi here.... | Nov 23 23:24 |
_goblin | here is a site talking about "dark" and "light" | Nov 23 23:24 |
_goblin | I assume its a joke.. | Nov 23 23:25 |
_goblin | "If you were to swim just below the surface of a lake, you would encounter ample brightness. However, if you were to slowly swim deeper and deeper, you would notice it getting darker and darker. When you reached a sufficient depth, you would be in total darkness. This is because the heavier dark sinks to the bottom of the lake and the lighter light floats at the top. That is, in fact, why it is called LIGHT. " | Nov 23 23:25 |
tessier | http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2009/11/23/9927055.aspx | Nov 23 23:25 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: The Old New Thing : Can I talk to that William fellow? He was so helpful .::. Size~: 45.59 KB | Nov 23 23:25 |
tessier | ROFL | Nov 23 23:25 |
tessier | I love the first comment | Nov 23 23:25 |
_goblin | Im reading up on "faster than dark drives" | Nov 23 23:25 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Defining The Speed Of Dark : http://www.useless-knowledge.com/1234/jan/article385.html ...surely this is a joke... | Nov 23 23:29 | |
cubezzz | the hoth scene was really stupid | Nov 23 23:30 |
cubezzz | and Scotty getting stuck in the water tube was stupid | Nov 23 23:30 |
cubezzz | C- rating :) | Nov 23 23:31 |
cubezzz | derivative | Nov 23 23:33 |
schestowitz | fewa: Amy Goodman was arrested??!?! | Nov 23 23:33 |
trmanco | http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/hiner/?p=3372 | Nov 23 23:38 |
trmanco | LOL | Nov 23 23:39 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: TechRepublic Blogs: For IT professionals, by IT professionals .::. Size~: 83.76 KB | Nov 23 23:39 |
tessier | cubezzz: Yes, I was quite disappointed with that whole film. | Nov 23 23:39 |
trmanco | copying windows uh? | Nov 23 23:39 |
tessier | _goblin: Lightbulbs do not produce light so much as they suck dark. | Nov 23 23:39 |
trmanco | that windows7 taskbar sure looks my kde 4 one... strange | Nov 23 23:39 |
trmanco | windows has no virtual desktops by default.... 1 desktop stinks | Nov 23 23:40 |
_goblin | speed of dark =0 (IMO) since its merely an absence of light... | Nov 23 23:42 |
_goblin | light can be measured as a time taken from a - b ...imo | Nov 23 23:42 |
_goblin | it was quite a good interesting theory to have a means of travelling in a medium that exists everywhere there is no light... | Nov 23 23:43 |
_goblin | totally rubbish of course but would probably make a good movie. | Nov 23 23:43 |
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MinceR | http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c270/oninosensi/system-sm.jpg | Nov 23 23:46 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 23 23:46 |
schestowitz | Give Me Liberty < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XgkeTanCGI > | Nov 23 23:48 |
cubezzz | I can't seem to find ARM based netbook | Nov 23 23:48 |
cubezzz | everything is Intel Atom | Nov 23 23:48 |
tessier | ARM based netbook is still not really on the market yet | Nov 23 23:54 |
tessier | Last week I did put my hands on an in-development netbook | Nov 23 23:54 |
tessier | Linux had just been booted on it for the first time the previous day. | Nov 23 23:54 |
tessier | Just the kernel and shell. Still lots of work to be done on drivers and distro for ARM etc. | Nov 23 23:55 |
tessier | It will be next year before it is ready. | Nov 23 23:55 |
*cubezzz nods | Nov 23 23:58 | |
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