| trmanco | what a perfect day to celebrate kde's new release | Dec 18 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| |neighborlee| | im not entirely happy with kde | Dec 18 00:00 |
| |neighborlee| | overall , Ill take it over gnome anyyyyyyyy day BUT | Dec 18 00:00 |
| |neighborlee| | they dont make it easy to get some of the software on windows ;)) | Dec 18 00:00 |
| trmanco | I like it a lot | Dec 18 00:00 |
| |neighborlee| | not only that,,stable parts of the software | Dec 18 00:00 |
| |neighborlee| | I do too..but not installing on windows its a real PITA | Dec 18 00:00 |
| |neighborlee| | try installing some kde app on windows, you will see what I mean | Dec 18 00:01 |
| trmanco | windows is what makes things hard :-P | Dec 18 00:01 |
| |neighborlee| | much easier t o get a gnome app installed..which is a real shame | Dec 18 00:01 |
| trmanco | I did | Dec 18 00:01 |
| trmanco | last time I tried, amarok wouldn't even start | Dec 18 00:01 |
| |neighborlee| | lovely | Dec 18 00:01 |
| trmanco | but I got Kate working | Dec 18 00:01 |
| trmanco | or some text editor :-P | Dec 18 00:02 |
| |neighborlee| | windows 7 maybe...my friends are turning away from windows 7 and going to mac osx LOL | Dec 18 00:02 |
| |neighborlee| | some of them anyway | Dec 18 00:02 |
| |neighborlee| | however , I do LOVE kvirc ;)) | Dec 18 00:02 |
| |neighborlee| | its EASY to install :)) | Dec 18 00:02 |
| trmanco | ? | Dec 18 00:02 |
| |neighborlee| | unlike konversation :)) | Dec 18 00:02 |
| *trmanco check what it is | Dec 18 00:02 | |
| |neighborlee| | kvirc ,,kde irc client..its amazing | Dec 18 00:02 |
| |neighborlee| | and crossplatform 100% ;) | Dec 18 00:02 |
| trmanco | yeah | Dec 18 00:03 |
| trmanco | I see, this is why Qt is the future | Dec 18 00:03 |
| |neighborlee| | god I hope so | Dec 18 00:05 |
| |neighborlee| | gnome and gtk can take a hike | Dec 18 00:05 |
| |neighborlee| | though I still love gimp, so less so gtk,,,:)) | Dec 18 00:05 |
| trmanco | there should be something like Qimp | Dec 18 00:05 |
| |neighborlee| | I wish | Dec 18 00:05 |
| trmanco | or Kimp | Dec 18 00:06 |
| trmanco | or just Gimp Qt | Dec 18 00:06 |
| |neighborlee| | krita is out there..but its not included on the list of apps to install in kde download forwindows | Dec 18 00:06 |
| |neighborlee| | hmmm | Dec 18 00:06 |
| |neighborlee| | ill check thatout latre thanks | Dec 18 00:06 |
| trmanco | krita needs more man powa | Dec 18 00:06 |
| |neighborlee| | ahhhh | Dec 18 00:06 |
| |neighborlee| | I guess its all over at gimp ;)) | Dec 18 00:06 |
| trmanco | Krita should get it's stuff straight | Dec 18 00:06 |
| |neighborlee| | gosh I hope so | Dec 18 00:07 |
| |neighborlee| | its a clear alternative to gimp and gtk so I hope it does ;) | Dec 18 00:07 |
| |neighborlee| | these days alternatives are so important..like health care and currently ZERO competition in health care reform for the industry ;)) | Dec 18 00:08 |
| trmanco | :) | Dec 18 00:09 |
| |neighborlee| | Europe is lucky that their country gives a darn about them...overall anyway I guess ;)) | Dec 18 00:09 |
| DaemonFC | no government wants anything but more power | Dec 18 00:21 |
| |neighborlee| | hence the corruption idea ;) | Dec 18 00:25 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another Day, Another Crime: #Microsoft Expected to be Sued for Breaking #Copyright Law http://ur1.ca/i42k | Dec 18 00:43 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Another Day, Another Crime: Microsoft Expected to be Sued for Breaking Copyright Law | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 102.86 KB | Dec 18 00:43 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Wonderful News From #Turkey: #GNU #Linux In, #Microsoft Out http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/17/turkey-oem-stranglehold/ | Dec 18 01:00 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Wonderful News From Turkey: GNU/Linux In, Microsoft Out | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 102.94 KB | Dec 18 01:00 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @shamnad: Liberalization of Foreign Technology Agreement Policy: There is good news for the Indian tech. industry http://bit.ly/8Rs9Wl | Dec 18 01:09 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: SPICY IP: Liberalization of Foreign Technology Agreement Policy .::. Size~: 139.18 KB | Dec 18 01:09 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] Todays malayalam newspapers seems like sufia madani special... | Dec 18 01:13 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] Does anyone have the statistics about no. of buses burned in kerala every year? It yes we can easily calculate no of terrorists in kerala | Dec 18 01:14 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Sounds like the results of the "MS culture" where employees are trained to be scumbags first http://tinyurl.com/y9du3l5 | Dec 18 01:17 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: On Microsoft's anti-Drupal ad | Dries Buytaert .::. Size~: 21 KB | Dec 18 01:17 |
| *Ender2070 (n=Ender207@bas1-toronto12-1128666469.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 01:17 | |
| *iKonaK (n=user-0@89.137.219.70) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 01:19 | |
| *iKonaK has quit (Client Quit) | Dec 18 01:20 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] “Boycott Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation in China” http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/17/boycott-gates-foundation/ | Dec 18 01:27 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] For a wrestling fan, Im ashamed to say Ive only just seen "The Wrestler" - bought it with some gift vouchers! Fantastic film! | Dec 18 01:27 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: “Boycott Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation in China” | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 108.96 KB | Dec 18 01:27 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Plurk: Microsoft went to great lengths to steal code http://tinyurl.com/yb2hgx3 | Dec 18 01:40 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Plurk: Microsoft went to great lengths to steal code .::. Size~: 34.83 KB | Dec 18 01:40 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Research: Internet in Developing Countries Crippled by #Microsoft #Windows #Zombies http://ur1.ca/i45u | Dec 18 01:48 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Research: Internet in Developing Countries Crippled by Microsoft Windows Zombies | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 103.72 KB | Dec 18 01:48 |
| pentarex | sorry for the question but where is this phIRCe-local - I mean where i can read this titles ? | Dec 18 01:52 |
| pentarex | aha i found it.. | Dec 18 01:54 |
| *|neighborlee| has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Dec 18 01:56 | |
| pentarex | gn guys | Dec 18 01:57 |
| *pentarex has quit ("Leaving") | Dec 18 01:57 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] on the way back to bangalore. From chennai . | Dec 18 01:58 | |
| *Omar87__ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Dec 18 02:03 | |
| *Omar87 (n=quassel@94.249.30.252) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 02:03 | |
| *ThistleWeb (n=gordon@unaffiliated/thistleweb) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 02:17 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #EbenMoglen Sets Record Straight Regarding Microsoft/Novell After #Novell Lied http://ur1.ca/i478 | Dec 18 02:20 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Eben Moglen Sets Record Straight Regarding Microsoft/Novell After Novell Lied | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 109.82 KB | Dec 18 02:20 |
| *Omar87 has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Dec 18 02:44 | |
| *Omar87 (n=quassel@94.249.30.252) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 02:44 | |
| *Omar87 has quit (Client Quit) | Dec 18 02:49 | |
| *Omar87 (n=quassel@94.249.30.252) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 02:49 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft -Funded “Analysts” Fight Against the Truth http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/17/enderle-gartenberg-microsoft-funded/ | Dec 18 02:58 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft-Funded “Analysts” Fight Against the Truth | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 105.31 KB | Dec 18 02:58 |
| *ikonia has quit (Connection timed out) | Dec 18 03:02 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] MS tech support is like wielding a bucket on the Titanic, no matter how hard you tip the water over the side, the ship is still sinking :-D | Dec 18 03:05 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Starts Neglecting #Windows XP as Supported Platform http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/17/xp-64-waning/ | Dec 18 03:16 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft Starts Neglecting Windows XP as Supported Platform | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 101.7 KB | Dec 18 03:16 |
| willimm | Grr... the only reason I have to use M$ is because of Photoshop, and now that I think of it, I should move to the GIMP. | Dec 18 03:26 |
| *jono has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Dec 18 03:28 | |
| *DaemonFC has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Dec 18 03:31 | |
| schestowitz | Some people use wine for photoshop | Dec 18 03:40 |
| *DaemonFC (n=chatzill@c-69-245-242-208.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 03:46 | |
| schestowitz | http://simplyxmas.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/uncle_san_i_want_you_to_spend_a_lot.jpg | Dec 18 03:51 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Dec 18 03:51 |
| schestowitz | More here: http://www.taringa.net/posts/humor/4130596/Tio-Sam___.html | Dec 18 03:51 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Taringa! - Tio Sam... .::. Size~: 39.45 KB | Dec 18 03:51 |
| schestowitz | Includes one from BN | Dec 18 03:51 |
| schestowitz | OK, I'm fried. Cya in the morn | Dec 18 03:52 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @brpbhaskar: Concern over media's Soofiya Mada... http://bit.ly/4n3ABl | Dec 18 04:06 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: BHASKAR: Citizens voice concern over media's Soofiya Madani hunt .::. Size~: 112.1 KB | Dec 18 04:06 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @brpbhaskar: Concern over media's Soofiya Madani's hunt http://brpbhaskar.blogspot.com/2009/12/citizens-voice-concern-over-medias.html | Dec 18 04:10 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: BHASKAR: Citizens voice concern over media's Soofiya Madani hunt .::. Size~: 112.1 KB | Dec 18 04:10 |
| *Omar87 has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Dec 18 04:13 | |
| *Omar87 (n=quassel@94.249.30.252) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 04:16 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] court stays investigation on "how to isolate a whole community" #lovejihad http://tinyurl.com/yafvyk4 .. Good to see some sensible judges | Dec 18 04:22 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Love Jihad probe targeting one community: HC | Deccan Chronicle .::. Size~: 45.5 KB | Dec 18 04:22 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Eighty MPs challenge auditor's expenses rulings | Politics | guardian.co.uk http://tinyurl.com/ybku8xc | Dec 18 04:24 | |
| *jono (n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 04:36 | |
| DaemonFC | http://torrentfreak.com/drm-fiasco-ruins-james-camerons-avatar-3d-preview-091217/ | Dec 18 04:39 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: DRM Fiasco Ruins James Camerons Avatar 3D Preview | TorrentFreak .::. Size~: 53.47 KB | Dec 18 04:39 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @cjpkar SPOs accused of raping 4 girls in Samsetti village, Dantewada assault victims forcing thumb imprssions on blank paper #humanrighs | Dec 18 04:57 | |
| *Omar87_ (n=quassel@86.108.92.61) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 04:58 | |
| *Omar87 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Dec 18 05:00 | |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m3MyjHM-a4 | Dec 18 05:06 |
| *|neighborlee| (n=neighbor@c-67-171-9-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 05:18 | |
| DaemonFC | Eye wawnt a spel chekr that dusnt ewes phoniks. | Dec 18 05:24 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Dec 18 05:24 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] I just watched Big Buck Bunny in uncompressed RGB 1080p.... my eyeballs hurt #blender | Dec 18 05:29 | |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] I'd buy this device and subscriptions on it http://ur1.ca/i4mm | Dec 18 05:29 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Mag+ on Vimeo .::. Size~: 72.63 KB | Dec 18 05:29 |
| *|neighborlee| has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Dec 18 05:47 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] New Blog Post - What Exactly Are You Paying For? | The Digital Prism http://tinyurl.com/yzhyjag | Dec 18 05:52 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: What Exactly Are You Paying For? | The Digital Prism .::. Size~: 13.9 KB | Dec 18 05:52 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] The Known Universe by AMNH http://ur1.ca/i4np #science | Dec 18 05:59 | |
| *DaemonFC has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Dec 18 06:55 | |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] RT: @ManishSinha: OMG OMG OMG! Reddit http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/afpez/a_single_sperm_has_375mb_of_dna_information_in_it/ | Dec 18 07:39 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: A single sperm has 37.5MB of DNA information in it. That means that a normal ejaculation represents a data transfer of 1,587.5TB : reddit.com .::. Size~: 448.66 KB | Dec 18 07:39 |
| *ThistleWeb has quit ("Lost terminal") | Dec 18 08:05 | |
| *DaemonFC (n=ryan@c-69-245-224-107.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 08:10 | |
| *jono has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Dec 18 08:47 | |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] The #C Programming Language by #BrianKernighan & #DennisRitchie & #HPLovecraft http://ur1.ca/i4w9 !gnu !freesoftware !debian !linux | Dec 18 08:59 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: The C Programming Language: 4.10 .::. Size~: 10.19 KB | Dec 18 08:59 |
| *DaemonFC has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Dec 18 09:04 | |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] tml is trying to get #Valgrind to work on #Windows, this is a sign of the end times http://ur1.ca/i4wi | Dec 18 09:09 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: tml's blog: Porting Valgrind to Windows .::. Size~: 28.36 KB | Dec 18 09:09 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] I need urgent help setting up my new #Plone website. I'm about to burst into tears if someone doesn't help me soon..Please help! :'( | Dec 18 09:24 | |
| *sebsebseb has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Dec 18 09:33 | |
| *Omar87 (n=quassel@94.249.47.97) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 09:50 | |
| *Omar87_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Dec 18 09:59 | |
| schestowitz | There is already response to mono spin | Dec 18 10:07 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #SFLC Critics - Response to critics of those who are law sticklers, standing up for their right http://ur1.ca/i502 | Dec 18 10:12 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: SFLC Critics | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 104.98 KB | Dec 18 10:12 |
| *MinceR has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | Dec 18 10:17 | |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 10:21 | |
| oiaohm | http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/moonlight-2-expands-silverlight-capabilities-linux-662?source=rss_infoworld_news Anyone found the conventent not to sue yet. | Dec 18 10:29 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Moonlight 2 expands Silverlight capabilities for Linux | Developer World - InfoWorld .::. Size~: 76.14 KB | Dec 18 10:29 |
| *MinceR (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 10:32 | |
| oiaohm | Yep the Moonlight agreement still suxes. http://www.microsoft.com/interop/msnovellcollab/moonlight.mspx It expires September 1, 2011 | Dec 18 10:46 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Covenant to Downstream Recipients of Moonlight - Microsoft & Novell Interoperability Collaboration .::. Size~: 26.28 KB | Dec 18 10:46 |
| oiaohm | I guess schestowitz is not here. | Dec 18 10:47 |
| schestowitz | I'm here | Dec 18 11:05 |
| schestowitz | Just wroiting some stuff | Dec 18 11:05 |
| schestowitz | On the same subject | Dec 18 11:06 |
| oiaohm | Don't mess about the date that the MS agreement is not forever. | Dec 18 11:06 |
| oiaohm | mess/miss | Dec 18 11:06 |
| schestowitz | Yeah | Dec 18 11:16 |
| schestowitz | I added your words | Dec 18 11:16 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/18/moonlight-latest-pr/ | Dec 18 11:16 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft Gave Moonlight “Blessings” in 2007 | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 110.3 KB | Dec 18 11:16 |
| schestowitz | Our reader Oiaohm says that “the Moonlight agreement still sucks. It expires September 1, 2011.” | Dec 18 11:17 |
| schestowitz | September 11 | Dec 18 11:17 |
| schestowitz | September [20]11 | Dec 18 11:17 |
| schestowitz | zomg!! Must be a conspiracy theory. lololololol | Dec 18 11:17 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Gave #Moonlight “Blessings” in 2007 http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/18/moonlight-latest-pr/ | Dec 18 11:17 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft Gave Moonlight “Blessings” in 2007 | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 110.3 KB | Dec 18 11:17 |
| schestowitz | http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/bentley/microsoft-eu-settle-browser-antitrust-charges/?cs=38233 | Dec 18 11:19 |
| schestowitz | Farce | Dec 18 11:19 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft, EU Settle Browser Antitrust Charges | Blogs | ITBusinessEdge.com .::. Size~: 81.31 KB | Dec 18 11:19 |
| schestowitz | They don't talk about the patent-'interop' part | Dec 18 11:19 |
| schestowitz | decoy | Dec 18 11:19 |
| oiaohm | Don't worry EU is still busy. | Dec 18 11:19 |
| schestowitz | http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/bentley/watchdog-files-ftc-complaint-on-facebook-privacy-changes/?cs=38232 | Dec 18 11:20 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Watchdog Files FTC Complaint on Facebook Privacy Changes | Blogs | ITBusinessEdge.com .::. Size~: 83.16 KB | Dec 18 11:20 |
| oiaohm | I have a court case that I having to work on paperwork that is over all the MS confusing licences. It caused some major conflits between two companies that split. | Dec 18 11:20 |
| oiaohm | What is so hard about just making an agreement to never sue anyone. | Dec 18 11:22 |
| schestowitz | http://www.fox2now.com/business/sns-ap-us-tec-stimulus-funding-broadband,0,5371005.story "Vice President Joe Biden on Thursday announced the first $182 million in federal stimulus money for 18 projects to expand high-speed Internet networks in rural areas and other underserved communities." | Dec 18 11:40 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Vice President Biden announces first $182 million in stimulus funding for broadband access - KTVI .::. Size~: 96.04 KB | Dec 18 11:40 |
| schestowitz | ANd then he gives the Internet to the MAFIAA | Dec 18 11:40 |
| schestowitz | Biden is a corporate crook, IMHO | Dec 18 11:40 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/17/us_drones_hacked/ | Dec 18 11:43 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Iraqi insurgents hack US drones with $26 software • The Register .::. Size~: 28.21 KB | Dec 18 11:43 |
| schestowitz | Anyone knows who makes the drone s/w? | Dec 18 11:43 |
| schestowitz | Adaptec CEO resigns | Dec 18 11:43 |
| schestowitz | Company for sale | Dec 18 11:43 |
| schestowitz | Bites dust | Dec 18 11:43 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: that explains why the Australian 1000 dollar pure unit batwings having being out performing the USA million dollar ones. | Dec 18 11:46 |
| schestowitz | "Mark Shuttleworth - the billionaire founder of the Ubuntu Linux project that was started in 2004 and the chief executive officer of Canonical, the company that provides support and services for Ubuntu - is apparently sick of paperwork." http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/17/canoncial_ceo_silber/ | Dec 18 12:00 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Shuttleworth steps down as Canonical CEO • The Register .::. Size~: 33.64 KB | Dec 18 12:00 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: esp. east Asia | Dec 18 12:00 |
| schestowitz | Tomorrow's dominance may depend on transmission speeds (not through automobiles). Singapore or Korea have the fastest connections, I reckon. | Dec 18 12:01 |
| schestowitz | Australia is near their backbone, which is good for them. It's probably the worst in Africa, where the hubs are really, really thin | Dec 18 12:02 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-12-17-028-35-OP-MS-0002 | Dec 18 12:03 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Linux Today - Microsoft crippled by its antitrust past .::. Size~: 76.93 KB | Dec 18 12:03 |
| schestowitz | http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/features/article.php/3853911/ | Dec 18 12:07 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: FTC Sues, What's the Fallout for Intel? — Datamation.com .::. Size~: 72.64 KB | Dec 18 12:07 |
| schestowitz | http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2009/12/13/magazine/13endpaper.html | Dec 18 12:08 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Magazine > Image > .::. Size~: 4.83 KB | Dec 18 12:08 |
| schestowitz | Innovation! | Dec 18 12:08 |
| schestowitz | Wow. Over 7000 requests for the ogg files about Microsoft Spain | Dec 18 12:10 |
| schestowitz | And over 5000 for the Novell water leak | Dec 18 12:10 |
| schestowitz | SOmeone mocks me in is signature with an out-of-context quote. http://cs.rin.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=54744&start=15 | Dec 18 12:31 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: CS.RIN.RU - Steam Underground Community • View topic - Block the ads .::. Size~: 73.58 KB | Dec 18 12:31 |
| schestowitz | And more on BN here: http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?p=104196 | Dec 18 12:31 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Does a grand evil conspiracy lie behind specific Desktop Environments? - Page 8 - Phoronix Forums .::. Size~: 92.08 KB | Dec 18 12:31 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The newspaper industry moves on. http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/dec/09/newsagents-london-evening-standard | Dec 18 12:38 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Olympic lackeys are still fighting against #freespeech http://techdirt.com/articles/20091216/0816517384.shtml #olympic #fail | Dec 18 12:42 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Vancouver Olympics Unhappy With 'Cool Sporting Event That Takes Place in British Columbia Between 2009 and 2011 Edition' Slogan | Techdirt .::. Size~: 74.85 KB | Dec 18 12:42 |
| schestowitz | http://blog.canonical.com/?p=307 | Dec 18 12:55 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Canonical Blog » Blog Archive » Management changes at Canonical .::. Size~: 14.74 KB | Dec 18 12:55 |
| schestowitz | Hmmmm... not good practice. http://blog.dipinkrishna.info/2009/12/how-to-make-terminal-remember-sudo.html | Dec 18 13:13 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Linux Tips: How to make a terminal remember sudo passowrd for ever .::. Size~: 113.37 KB | Dec 18 13:13 |
| oiaohm | Sooner sudo dies the better. | Dec 18 13:14 |
| oiaohm | sudo it self is not a great practice | Dec 18 13:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | sudo isnt a bad | Dec 18 13:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | people need to quit trying to circumvent it | Dec 18 13:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | also, wow | Dec 18 13:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | sudo shouldnt allow that | Dec 18 13:28 |
| oiaohm | Sudo is really not fine grained enough. | Dec 18 13:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: yes it is | Dec 18 13:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | sudo allows one user to become another | Dec 18 13:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | this doesnt mean root | Dec 18 13:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | also many simply use it for that | Dec 18 13:28 |
| oiaohm | Its pure user not per application. | Dec 18 13:28 |
| oiaohm | User is very course way of doing things. | Dec 18 13:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: except | Dec 18 13:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | you're doing it wrong. | Dec 18 13:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | sudo == su do. | Dec 18 13:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | su changes user. | Dec 18 13:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | _thats it_ | Dec 18 13:37 |
| MinceR | you can also make sudo not remember the password at all | Dec 18 13:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | it doesnt magically become some sort of security framework | Dec 18 13:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: you need to learn basic software design before you start saying shit | Dec 18 13:38 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: be polite | Dec 18 13:38 |
| *MinceR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Dec 18 13:39 | |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: What was the goal of sudo. Goal is to allow users who would not other wise have the rights to perform an action. Its really a bipass to secuirty frameworks. | Dec 18 13:39 |
| *MinceR (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 13:39 | |
| oiaohm | It comes from a time when people operating systems were skilled and trustwothy. | Dec 18 13:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: the goal of sudo was to automate executing commands as another user | Dec 18 13:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | there is zero problems with sudo | Dec 18 13:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | the problem is with distros like ubuntu that eliminate root and teach new users that sudo is how you normally use linux | Dec 18 13:41 |
| oiaohm | automating executing commands. Same goal of freeipa by the way Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 13:42 |
| oiaohm | Then there is policykit that also overlaps. | Dec 18 13:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | wrong, policykit solves a different problem | Dec 18 13:43 |
| oiaohm | policykit and sudo solve the same issue just two different ways. | Dec 18 13:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | wrong | Dec 18 13:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | sudo doesnt "solve a problem" | Dec 18 13:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | it just makes using su easier. | Dec 18 13:43 |
| oiaohm | sudo did not exist in early unix's neither did su | Dec 18 13:43 |
| oiaohm | Both were created to solve problems. | Dec 18 13:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | su wasnt created to "solve a problem" | Dec 18 13:44 |
| oiaohm | Both su and sudo should in time disappear. | Dec 18 13:44 |
| oiaohm | Yes it was. | Dec 18 13:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | and btw, what do you mean early unixs didnt have it? | Dec 18 13:45 |
| oiaohm | Having to log out and back in to do an alteration as another user was a pain in but. | Dec 18 13:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | the original at&t unix had it | Dec 18 13:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | waaaay back in 1979. | Dec 18 13:45 |
| oiaohm | Not first versions Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 13:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | 19. 79. | Dec 18 13:45 |
| oiaohm | Worked on those machines by the way Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 13:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | Yes, and 19. 79. Its that old. | Dec 18 13:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | Trying to say "well, it sovled a problem and it should go away and it eats babies" is kind of stupid | Dec 18 13:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | it completely ignores what it does, and what it does only | Dec 18 13:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | it changes your effective user. | Dec 18 13:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | sudo _only_ makes it not suck. | Dec 18 13:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | its not meant to be a security feature | Dec 18 13:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | it should not be used for one. | Dec 18 13:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | its only there to run things as another user. | Dec 18 13:48 |
| oiaohm | Yet to change and do a alteration as a different effective user using policykit does not require running shell as the other user. | Dec 18 13:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: there you go again | Dec 18 13:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | "but policykit allows this and that" | Dec 18 13:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes, thats what policykit is designed for | Dec 18 13:48 |
| oiaohm | Also policykit can confirm that approve action is running approve applicaiton to do application. | Dec 18 13:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | policykit is an actual security framework, albet a shitty one | Dec 18 13:49 |
| *jose_X (n=jose@adsl-64-49-159.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 13:49 | |
| Diablo-D3 | su is not. | Dec 18 13:49 |
| oiaohm | sudo only string matches the applications. | Dec 18 13:49 |
| oiaohm | Ie sudo contains a filter. | Dec 18 13:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | quit trying to conflate sudo as a security framework | Dec 18 13:49 |
| oiaohm | It is a really basic and crappy secuirty framework. | Dec 18 13:49 |
| oiaohm | Can you or can you not set want command lines a user can use with sudo. | Dec 18 13:50 |
| cubezzz | su's been around as long as I can remember | Dec 18 13:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | next you'll be saying chroot should go away because people are stupid | Dec 18 13:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | its the same argument | Dec 18 13:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | the commands to _exactly_ what they're supposed to | Dec 18 13:50 |
| oiaohm | No its not Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 13:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | if you're dumb enough to try to use them for something else, thats your own fault. | Dec 18 13:50 |
| *MinceR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Dec 18 13:50 | |
| Diablo-D3 | sudo is not a security framework. | Dec 18 13:50 |
| oiaohm | chroot is being wrapped inside the future framework of containers Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 13:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: wrong. | Dec 18 13:51 |
| cubezzz | first appeared "around 1980" according to wikipedia | Dec 18 13:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | a bsd jail like function is not chroot, nor should it be confused as such. | Dec 18 13:51 |
| jose_X | schestowitz, http://www.forexpros.com/news/general-news/update-1-french-court-rules-against-google-over-book-copying-108540 | Dec 18 13:51 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: UPDATE 1-French court rules against Google over book copying By Reuters .::. Size~: 75.66 KB | Dec 18 13:51 |
| *MinceR (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 13:52 | |
| oiaohm | chroot is plained to be used with future secuirty frameworks Diablo-D3. So its not some relica duplicating functionality with a better secuirty framework providing the means to do the same tasks. | Dec 18 13:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | chroot is not a security framework. | Dec 18 13:53 |
| oiaohm | chroot does an alteration that is used hand and hand with cgroups to allow virtual machine securely. | Dec 18 13:53 |
| oiaohm | So it still fits into future design. Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 13:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | um, cgroups is kind of dead dude | Dec 18 13:54 |
| *MinceR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Dec 18 13:54 | |
| oiaohm | cgroups are used with kvm as well for management Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 13:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | its a hack that no one wanted that never solved the problem it was trying to solve | Dec 18 13:54 |
| *MinceR (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 13:54 | |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: yes, and kvm is shit | Dec 18 13:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | no one in their right mind would seriously use it | Dec 18 13:54 |
| MinceR | except for that it isn't | Dec 18 13:55 |
| MinceR | it's more reliable than both vmware and virtualbox | Dec 18 13:56 |
| jose_X | Diablo-D3, why do you say kvm is garbage. in what way. I don't admin or use virtual machines very much, fwiw | Dec 18 13:56 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: sudo has not been improved in ages. People have basically let it rot. Means to check that the command that sudo files authorised hand not changed before allowing action could have been added. | Dec 18 13:58 |
| oiaohm | The idea that its not a secuirty framework and cannot be one has been the justification for letting it rot Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 13:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: no one takes vmware seriously, and virtualbox is almost perfect for windows guests | Dec 18 13:59 |
| MinceR | Diablo-D3: except for the virtualbox kernel module being of uncertain quality | Dec 18 13:59 |
| oiaohm | And once something as rotted so much it gets simpler to let it die and use the new stuff that replaces it designed better. | Dec 18 13:59 |
| MinceR | i lost my trust in it when it trashed kernel memory regularly | Dec 18 13:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | jose_X: its basically a political movement and has nothing to do with quality software | Dec 18 13:59 |
| MinceR | also, i find libvirt's network handling to be friendlier, at least for some use cases | Dec 18 13:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | jose_X: I wish linus would just remove their shit from the kernel already, it doesnt belong there. | Dec 18 13:59 |
| MinceR | 145404 < Diablo-D3> jose_X: its basically a political movement and has nothing to do with quality software | Dec 18 14:00 |
| MinceR | [[citation needed]] | Dec 18 14:00 |
| MinceR | (on both counts) | Dec 18 14:00 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: Is the any good reason why sudo has not been upgraded to support confirming the commands about to be run as untampered when Limitied. | Dec 18 14:00 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: there is no good reason. Its pure rot. | Dec 18 14:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: virtualbox's kernel modules work fine for me and for millions of other users | Dec 18 14:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: I suspect user error | Dec 18 14:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: sudo is not a security framework. | Dec 18 14:01 |
| MinceR | Diablo-D3: i suspect that you're an idiot | Dec 18 14:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: have you thought about working for fox news? | Dec 18 14:01 |
| MinceR | http://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/2078 | Dec 18 14:01 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: #2078 (RHEL5 on amd64 processor freeze with virtual Box 2.0 => Fixed in 2.0.2) - VirtualBox .::. Size~: 15.37 KB | Dec 18 14:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: wow, what an old version | Dec 18 14:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | also, lol redhat | Dec 18 14:02 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: So you are fine that as a user you can create a sudo file that says X user can only run X script in your account. But one day you overwrite it by mistake and lose your accounts contents Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: uh, yes, linux oriented software should not prevent you from being stupid | Dec 18 14:03 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: Better validation of items a command lines sudo is going to call does not make it a secuirty framework work. | Dec 18 14:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | sudo should not validate the command at all | Dec 18 14:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | it is not a security framework | Dec 18 14:04 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: It does Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:04 |
| oiaohm | That is your problem Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | does bash validate my command outside of checking if it is legal syntax? no. | Dec 18 14:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | bash is also not a security framework | Dec 18 14:04 |
| oiaohm | sudo does provide a validation option just on the string of the command line. | Dec 18 14:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes, and DUN DUN DUNNNNN sudo is not a security framework. | Dec 18 14:04 |
| oiaohm | Against a filter list user has set Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | Why continue arguing against the truth? | Dec 18 14:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | ten years ago people tried this same shit | Dec 18 14:05 |
| oiaohm | Bash does not proviide a filter list at user control to control the actions of other users. | Dec 18 14:05 |
| oiaohm | sudo does Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:05 |
| oiaohm | You love not comparing apples to apples. | Dec 18 14:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | "well, I use chroot to secure apache" "chroot is not a security framework." "waaah, my apache got hacked and the hacker got root and ate my shit" "what did I just say?" | Dec 18 14:05 |
| MinceR | http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/3.1.2/UserManual.pdf page 217 | Dec 18 14:05 |
| oiaohm | The most basic secuirty frameworks are filters. | Dec 18 14:05 |
| MinceR | Diablo-D3: when it caused mysterious lockups, it was the newest stable version | Dec 18 14:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: I am not currently suffering from any such problems | Dec 18 14:06 |
| MinceR | meanwhile, KVM is maintained as part of the Linux kernel | Dec 18 14:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | it sounds like user error | Dec 18 14:06 |
| oiaohm | Where is chroot filtering Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: kvm is not "maintained" in any sense of the word | Dec 18 14:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | its bloat in the kernel and should be removed | Dec 18 14:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | the kernel is not a hypervisor. | Dec 18 14:07 |
| MinceR | Diablo-D3: you're still spewing bullshit | Dec 18 14:07 |
| oiaohm | Once something provides a filter function on user actions it is a secuirty framework of some form Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | no, I'm making sense. | Dec 18 14:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: yes, if you're on drugs. | Dec 18 14:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: perl, according to your criteria, is a security framework. | Dec 18 14:07 |
| MinceR | and if it depends on kernel internals, it's a good idea to keep it in the kernel -- see also vmware kernel upgrade hell | Dec 18 14:07 |
| oiaohm | No Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: kvm is trying to be xen, thats retarded | Dec 18 14:08 |
| *Omar87_ (n=quassel@86.108.109.80) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 14:08 | |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: the hypervisor _should be a fucking hypervisor_ | Dec 18 14:08 |
| MinceR | Diablo-D3: but only because you're a xen fanboy | Dec 18 14:08 |
| oiaohm | Does perl really place any restrictions on user actions Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:08 |
| MinceR | so everything else must cease to exist | Dec 18 14:08 |
| MinceR | lest it threaten the status of xen | Dec 18 14:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: no, but it filters text. | Dec 18 14:08 |
| MinceR | ridiculous. | Dec 18 14:08 |
| oiaohm | On what applications they can run and as what user. Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:08 |
| oiaohm | filter function on user actions Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:08 |
| oiaohm | Read as whole. | Dec 18 14:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: nope, but it filters text, so clearly it must be a security framework. | Dec 18 14:09 |
| oiaohm | Filtering text is not filtering user actions. | Dec 18 14:09 |
| MinceR | also, afaik in xen dom0 isn't entirely independent of the hypervisor either. | Dec 18 14:09 |
| oiaohm | You are not reading as whole Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:09 |
| oiaohm | Instead nit picking and being a twit Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: it actually is independent. the hypervisor merely is a nanokernel that only does its job | Dec 18 14:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: it does not manage any hardware that is not required to do it's job | Dec 18 14:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: also note, you dont need xen to do this, ibm does it in hardware. | Dec 18 14:10 |
| MinceR | it's time for you to say that it's unholy to do it in hardware | Dec 18 14:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | the only reason xen exists is because common computers dont already support doing this on it's own | Dec 18 14:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: uh, no | Dec 18 14:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | the hardware should manage pretending to be hardware | Dec 18 14:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | unfortunately, consumer hardware sucks for anything but playing kiddy games in windows. | Dec 18 14:11 |
| oiaohm | Again please look at IBM hardware Diablo-D3. Most use AIX as the parent OS | Dec 18 14:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | anytime you actually want to do any real work on it, you have to go faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar out of your way to get shit done | Dec 18 14:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: so? | Dec 18 14:11 |
| oiaohm | The thing Xen loves to overlook is if domain0 the controlling os fails. | Dec 18 14:11 |
| *Adus (n=joeh@nat/microsoft/x-qitudkmrynznikbf) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 14:11 | |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: not at all | Dec 18 14:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | you can reboot dom0 | Dec 18 14:12 |
| oiaohm | Just like in the case of AIX on IBM hardware | Dec 18 14:12 |
| oiaohm | The secuirty core fails. | Dec 18 14:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes, the hardware requires an OS to boot to control the non-essential hardware | Dec 18 14:12 |
| Adus | It be snowy! :D | Dec 18 14:12 |
| oiaohm | Since dom0 can order the Xen to do anything. | Dec 18 14:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: wrong | Dec 18 14:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | dom0 can only order xen to do what xen allows the dom0 to order it to do. | Dec 18 14:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | anything else is a xen bug. | Dec 18 14:12 |
| *jose_X has quit ("Leaving") | Dec 18 14:12 | |
| oiaohm | Really. How do you start up a dom0 inside xen that cannot order xen to kill all other OS's running under it. | Dec 18 14:13 |
| oiaohm | Yes you would kinda call that a bug Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:14 |
| oiaohm | Currently there is no limitation preventing that. | Dec 18 14:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | uh, yes, xen utils on the dom0 can tell xen to shut down domus | Dec 18 14:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats sorta how it works. | Dec 18 14:15 |
| oiaohm | So someone breaching dom0 can bring house down right | Dec 18 14:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | not quite | Dec 18 14:16 |
| oiaohm | So the secuirty of Xen is also linked to what ever OS it uses for dom0 | Dec 18 14:16 |
| Diablo-D3 | no, the security of xen is linked to the admin adminning the machine | Dec 18 14:16 |
| oiaohm | Its not a nice 100 percent independant. | Dec 18 14:16 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: I think you somehow ignored what I said earlier | Dec 18 14:17 |
| oiaohm | There are nice 100 percent independant control Xen. | Dec 18 14:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | xen only does what it needs to do for it's job | Dec 18 14:17 |
| oiaohm | is not. | Dec 18 14:17 |
| oiaohm | Not really a control console is something to do it job perfectly Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | providing some sort of interface to control it is not part of it's job. | Dec 18 14:17 |
| MinceR | most virtualizers only do what they need to do for their job :> | Dec 18 14:17 |
| oiaohm | That Xen is lacking. | Dec 18 14:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: not true | Dec 18 14:17 |
| MinceR | it's a meaningless statement. | Dec 18 14:17 |
| oiaohm | So making it dependant on dom0 so weak Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | kvm can run my scanner and also become an httpd. | Dec 18 14:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | since kvm is my kernel. | Dec 18 14:18 |
| MinceR | no it's not | Dec 18 14:18 |
| MinceR | kvm is a bunch of kernel modules | Dec 18 14:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | it looks like a kernel module to me | Dec 18 14:18 |
| MinceR | not the kernel itself | Dec 18 14:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | once you load a kernel module, its part of the kernel. | Dec 18 14:18 |
| oiaohm | Other companies release closed source microkernel systems like Xen for embed world. None of them give power to a domain to kill. | Dec 18 14:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: except you're talking about unrelated things | Dec 18 14:19 |
| oiaohm | Xen itself is flawed due to minor oversite Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:19 |
| MinceR | Diablo-D3: a part of it, not the entirety of it. | Dec 18 14:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: yes, and it doesnt belong there. | Dec 18 14:19 |
| oiaohm | All xen need is a control console so dom0 does not have to be doing control jobs. | Dec 18 14:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: its not an oversight, it was a design decision | Dec 18 14:19 |
| MinceR | Diablo-D3: we get it, you don't like kvm. so use xen and shut up. | Dec 18 14:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: no, what you're asking for is a stripped down dom0 distro | Dec 18 14:20 |
| oiaohm | No I am not Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | you are and you just dont realize you are | Dec 18 14:20 |
| oiaohm | A striped down dom0 distribution still has a extra kernel. | Dec 18 14:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: wrong, xen is not a kernel | Dec 18 14:21 |
| oiaohm | Unrequired part Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:21 |
| MinceR | 150409 < Diablo-D3> MinceR: it actually is independent. the hypervisor merely is a nanokernel that only does its job | Dec 18 14:21 |
| MinceR | 151531 < Diablo-D3> oiaohm: wrong, xen is not a kernel | Dec 18 14:21 |
| oiaohm | Xen is a hypervisor and hypervisors can hae control consoles built into them. | Dec 18 14:21 |
| MinceR | oops | Dec 18 14:21 |
| MinceR | make up your mind already, Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: yes, its _not_ a kernel | Dec 18 14:22 |
| oiaohm | So avoiding using any not audited part for contols Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | its a nanokernel | Dec 18 14:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: kvm fails because it puts too much in the same layer | Dec 18 14:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: xen _doesnt_ fail because it has only whats required for each layer | Dec 18 14:22 |
| oiaohm | Both fail the same way Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | I'd like to see a dom0 specifically written for xen | Dec 18 14:23 |
| *Omar87 has quit (Success) | Dec 18 14:23 | |
| MinceR | btw, playing with words isn't going to prove a design superior to another. | Dec 18 14:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: xen doesnt crash my machine, kvm does | Dec 18 14:23 |
| oiaohm | Too much in the control system Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | ergo, xen is quite superior. | Dec 18 14:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: you know what? you're just going to argue shit all day | Dec 18 14:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | go away, I have better things to do. | Dec 18 14:23 |
| MinceR | Diablo-D3: so, by your logic: kvm doesn't crash my machine, so it must be user error on your side. | Dec 18 14:23 |
| MinceR | Diablo-D3: so, by your logic: kvm doesn't crash my machine, virtualbox does, therefore kvm is superior to virtualbox. | Dec 18 14:24 |
| MinceR | you don't seem to have better things to do, actually | Dec 18 14:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: the only user error I see is I installed a redhat written program on my machine | Dec 18 14:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | so yes, I admit I made a mistake, I should have seen the redhat name and never installed it | Dec 18 14:24 |
| MinceR | then my user error was installing virtualbox | Dec 18 14:24 |
| oiaohm | Both Xen and Kvm are designed to solve two slightly different problems Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:24 |
| MinceR | by the exact same reasoning | Dec 18 14:24 |
| MinceR | also, it's sun, so it was to be expected | Dec 18 14:25 |
| oiaohm | Both have there weak points Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: except redhat is marketing kvm as a xen competitor | Dec 18 14:25 |
| oiaohm | I have had Xen's dead just as much as Kvm's. | Dec 18 14:25 |
| MinceR | (never mind that both projects were started by different companies than the ones owning them now) | Dec 18 14:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: its not, and never will be, up to par enough to be used in the enterprise | Dec 18 14:25 |
| oiaohm | kvm is supperior in memory sharing and resource sharing to xen. | Dec 18 14:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | and as for home users, its _still_ not up to par | Dec 18 14:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | virtualbox has opengl accel and 2D video accel | Dec 18 14:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | kvm _still_ doesnt | Dec 18 14:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | its nuts | Dec 18 14:26 |
| MinceR | kvm has vmgl, iirc | Dec 18 14:26 |
| oiaohm | Nice and incorrect Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: for X only | Dec 18 14:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | and thats not a function of kvm. | Dec 18 14:26 |
| MinceR | also, not all home user applications need video acceleration | Dec 18 14:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | kvm doesnt even have basic 2D acceleration | Dec 18 14:27 |
| MinceR | regarding "not a function of" re-read your earlier discussion of doing only the necessary things. | Dec 18 14:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: yes, I expect kvm, since its not a replacement for xen, to be a replacement for virtualbox | Dec 18 14:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | since its not that either, why is it even here? | Dec 18 14:27 |
| oiaohm | You are aware that qemu and vmware are working with each other over the acceleration problem Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:27 |
| MinceR | it's interesting how you consider the exact same reasoning valid when it matches your bullshit and invalid when it doesn't | Dec 18 14:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: oh christ, vmware? fuck, we're screwed | Dec 18 14:27 |
| MinceR | it can be both, actually | Dec 18 14:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | vmware's 3D accel shit is totally fucking broken | Dec 18 14:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | its like they hired a bunch of fucking indians to code it | Dec 18 14:28 |
| oiaohm | vmware is also working on the core design of opengl acceleration for X11 | Dec 18 14:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: yes, I heard | Dec 18 14:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im against it | Dec 18 14:28 |
| MinceR | actually they bought the company that was working on it | Dec 18 14:28 |
| MinceR | :> | Dec 18 14:28 |
| oiaohm | Of course you would be. | Dec 18 14:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | a company whos known to write absolute shit for code should not be allowed anywhere near the code that runs on my machine | Dec 18 14:28 |
| oiaohm | Anything that could posiblay make Linxu work you have to be against Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:28 |
| MinceR | Diablo-D3: news flash, citrix bought xensource long ago | Dec 18 14:29 |
| oiaohm | Not like the X11 stack was not the worst nightmare invented. | Dec 18 14:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: yes, and they've slowly been making it shit. | Dec 18 14:29 |
| MinceR | just like sun bought innotek and red hat bought qumranet (iirc) | Dec 18 14:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: remember nenolod? hes slowly been maintaining his own private fork of xen | Dec 18 14:29 |
| MinceR | i do | Dec 18 14:30 |
| oiaohm | There has been a long arguement about layer 1 and layer 11 virtualisation. | Dec 18 14:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | due to the fact microsoft has their little grubby fingers | Dec 18 14:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | in xen's shit | Dec 18 14:30 |
| MinceR | and audacious is the only work of his that i care about. :> | Dec 18 14:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | and its stupid | Dec 18 14:30 |
| oiaohm | Xen vs Kvm is just the on going battle of that Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: kvm may someday work, who knows | Dec 18 14:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | but it sure as hell isnt now | Dec 18 14:30 |
| oiaohm | Niether is likely to win for all situlation. | Dec 18 14:30 |
| MinceR | 'someday' started a while ago | Dec 18 14:30 |
| oiaohm | I have a few machines here were kvm works and xen does not Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | kvm, for example, will never allow pci-e passthrough for video cards or other complex devices to work | Dec 18 14:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | because, simply, the authors are fucking morons. | Dec 18 14:31 |
| oiaohm | LOL Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | it does, however, work fine in xen now. | Dec 18 14:31 |
| oiaohm | Try development branch kvm. | Dec 18 14:31 |
| oiaohm | Guess what it works in both. | Dec 18 14:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | okay, so, if I go install this magical dev branch kvm | Dec 18 14:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | which may or may not actually exist | Dec 18 14:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | I can hand my radeon over to windows. | Dec 18 14:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | hurry up oiaohm, answer the question | Dec 18 14:32 |
| oiaohm | There is only 1 development branch of kvm call the development branch. | Dec 18 14:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes or no | Dec 18 14:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | times up! the answer is no. | Dec 18 14:32 |
| oiaohm | It exists and the feature you are talking about it works. | Dec 18 14:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | citation needed. | Dec 18 14:33 |
| oiaohm | Catch is it messy. | Dec 18 14:33 |
| oiaohm | You have to make sure host kernel does not interface with graphics card you wish to pass threw. | Dec 18 14:34 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] well, this is my first dent from my new netbook, most impressed so far | Dec 18 14:34 | |
| oiaohm | There is sometimes good reasons why features remain in development branch Diablo-D3 and other paths are looked at. | Dec 18 14:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | citation or youtube video neeeded. | Dec 18 14:34 |
| oiaohm | It does not play well with sharing video cards. | Dec 18 14:34 |
| oiaohm | Xen's has the same issue. | Dec 18 14:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | actually xen works great with it | Dec 18 14:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | you tell xen not to pass the card to the dom0, and you tell the domu to pick it up | Dec 18 14:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | works fine | Dec 18 14:36 |
| oiaohm | So domu has to have a independant screen. | Dec 18 14:36 |
| oiaohm | So you can control the box. | Dec 18 14:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | no, actually you can go totally headless | Dec 18 14:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | dom0 powers up as a normal headless box | Dec 18 14:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | you can ssh to it from domu, etc etc | Dec 18 14:37 |
| oiaohm | KVM is going after something more complex. Means to switch card from client to client. | Dec 18 14:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | if they can get it to work, fine | Dec 18 14:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | however, if it doesnt work on my video card, it means it doesnt work period | Dec 18 14:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | faggots have a habit of only supporting nvidia or other retarded shit like that | Dec 18 14:38 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: now seriously how many machines running multi servers have enough screens to hand one screen out per machine contained. | Dec 18 14:39 |
| oiaohm | If you think about it for a bit the pci-e pass threw for video is fairly useless for most common uses. | Dec 18 14:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: uh, no, this would be for running windows as a desktop | Dec 18 14:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | its quite obvious if you're passing through the video card, you're playing video games | Dec 18 14:40 |
| MinceR | well, the amd/ati guys have a habit of not knowing how to write usable drivers | Dec 18 14:41 |
| MinceR | so it's likely that it's going to work on intel and nvidia before that. | Dec 18 14:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: lol, I dont think so TIm | Dec 18 14:41 |
| oiaohm | Personally I like the galuim3d design plan. That way your windows game can be on the same screen as everything else Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | nvidia is absolute shit | Dec 18 14:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | both hardware and drivers | Dec 18 14:41 |
| MinceR | Diablo-D3: that you don't think so is your problem, not mine | Dec 18 14:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont see nvidia trying to rectify the problem either | Dec 18 14:42 |
| MinceR | you being clueless isn't exactly new to any of us | Dec 18 14:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | AMD is actively spending lots of money to kill fglrx | Dec 18 14:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | nvidia is actively dying. | Dec 18 14:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | <mincer> I hate companies that shovel money into foss, Microsoft 4ever <3 <3 <3 | Dec 18 14:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: btw, thats not entirely right | Dec 18 14:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: gallium3D is really nice, but all it does is make the HAL part of the driver design not suck and not be tied to specifically any single API | Dec 18 14:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: it also allows using hybrid solutions (such as offloading unsupported features to the CPU) work saner | Dec 18 14:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: being able to, for example, teach gallium to natively speak D3D for wine usage is just a nifty side effect. | Dec 18 14:44 |
| oiaohm | Really I guess you did not look at the recent vmware driver with gallium3d pass threw. | Dec 18 14:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: it doesnt do what you think | Dec 18 14:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | all they're doing is passing through whats being shit out of vmware straight into gallium instead of through xrender and opengl | Dec 18 14:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | they're just skipping a layer | Dec 18 14:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | they also have the matching stuff for linux guests to pass it directly from gallium using drivers to the host's gallium | Dec 18 14:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats great and all | Dec 18 14:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | _but it has nothing to do with windows_ | Dec 18 14:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | they still have their half assed windows video driver stack | Dec 18 14:46 |
| oiaohm | At this stage Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | and I cant entirely blame vmware here | Dec 18 14:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | windows is absolute fucking shit in the video stack | Dec 18 14:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | I mean, I thought X was bad, and then I really took a look at how windows does shit | Dec 18 14:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | its horrid | Dec 18 14:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | I have no clue how the fucking thing even works | Dec 18 14:47 |
| oiaohm | Windows GL support for galluim3d is on vmware's todo list. | Dec 18 14:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: yes but | Dec 18 14:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | buuuUUUUUUUUUUuuuuUUUuuUUUuuUUuuut | Dec 18 14:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | they have to deal with windows stupidity | Dec 18 14:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | they cant make it elegant | Dec 18 14:47 |
| Adus | Diablo-D3: Exactly what don't you understand about how it works? | Dec 18 14:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | which means bugs, bugs, and more bugs. | Dec 18 14:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | all they're doing is passing the windows faked gl lib's hal output directly into the host's gallium | Dec 18 14:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats it | Dec 18 14:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | and it doesnt solve the d3d problem | Dec 18 14:48 |
| oiaohm | d3d can be solved the same way. | Dec 18 14:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | wine _may_ solve that problem by teaching gallium how to do d3d, but vmware and virtualbox both would be just using wine's work | Dec 18 14:48 |
| oiaohm | Just more effort. | Dec 18 14:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | virtualbox, for example, already uses wine for d3d->opengl | Dec 18 14:48 |
| oiaohm | At this stage Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | and has far superior d3d support due to that | Dec 18 14:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | (vbox uses wined3d, which is the d3d libs built on native win32, and it translates from d3d to ogl right in the guest) | Dec 18 14:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: do realize I follow this heavily | Dec 18 14:49 |
| oiaohm | Really you could be caught from left field. | Dec 18 14:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | if full gaming support ever actually is completed that it performs as fast or faster than native windows | Dec 18 14:50 |
| oiaohm | There are two groups working on open source direct x forms not 1. | Dec 18 14:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | microsoft is essentially fucked | Dec 18 14:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | its their last hold out | Dec 18 14:50 |
| Adus | That's very naive :p | Dec 18 14:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | once everybody can play their games on linux perfectly, native binaries or not, virtualized windows or not, microsoft is fucked | Dec 18 14:51 |
| Adus | You are seriously trying to tell me that gamers make up most windows users in teh world? haha | Dec 18 14:51 |
| oiaohm | MS has fucked the pc gaming market with the xbox360 Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | Adus: yup, everyone else just uses a web browser or a text editor or some app thats better on a mac anyhow | Dec 18 14:51 |
| *_goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 14:51 | |
| Adus | Diablo-D3: I don't agree, but the fact is, they still use windows. | Dec 18 14:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | Adus: like most software people use at work now is or will be ran out of a browser | Dec 18 14:52 |
| Adus | I don't buy that either. | Dec 18 14:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | so they dont "use windows" in the sense that "windows has turned into a web browser" | Dec 18 14:52 |
| oiaohm | Not for a few years yet Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:52 |
| Adus | I've been hearing that for the last 20 years | Dec 18 14:52 |
| Adus | I'm still waiting | Dec 18 14:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | a lot of data entry shit runs out of a browser now | Dec 18 14:52 |
| Adus | Shouldn't underestimate Singularity, Midori and the Oslo Project either. | Dec 18 14:52 |
| MinceR | lol | Dec 18 14:53 |
| oiaohm | Again depends what country Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:53 |
| MinceR | shouldn't underestimate WinFS either | Dec 18 14:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: well, yes, some countries are absolutely fucktarded | Dec 18 14:53 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: most dataentry here is not web based. | Dec 18 14:53 |
| MinceR | whenever it's ready! | Dec 18 14:53 |
| Adus | Singularity is already available MinceR | Dec 18 14:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: if they want to use software that isnt published anymore, thats their choice | Dec 18 14:53 |
| MinceR | Adus: apparently nobody except the ten people who drank the koolaid cares about it | Dec 18 14:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | I cant drag them into the future kicking and screaming | Dec 18 14:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats someone else's job | Dec 18 14:54 |
| Adus | MinceR: I care abotu it. | Dec 18 14:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | btw, it'd be nice if microsoft finally killed windows | Dec 18 14:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | but I dont see it happening | Dec 18 14:54 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: of course not. There are other options other than web. There are still some nasty ones using java applicaitons for data entry Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:54 |
| MinceR | they're working on it | Dec 18 14:54 |
| MinceR | it's called vista :> | Dec 18 14:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | singularity and midori and whatever else seems to be a dead end | Dec 18 14:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: you know what I meant | Dec 18 14:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | I was actually mildly impressed with singularity | Dec 18 14:54 |
| Adus | Of course, you guys don't like Singularity do you. I expect the idea of a .NET based operating system makes you feel ill? Especially if Novell get behind it :p | Dec 18 14:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | I was expecting absolute shit | Dec 18 14:54 |
| MinceR | i think windows will die at the same time m$ does | Dec 18 14:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | the fact it even booted impressed me greatly. | Dec 18 14:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | Adus: I do agree its a tad silly | Dec 18 14:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | they should have used java instead | Dec 18 14:55 |
| Adus | MS won't die... | Dec 18 14:55 |
| MinceR | Adus: i'm not particularly impressed by the idea of ignoring hardware support for memory protection and such just for a little bit of performance | Dec 18 14:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | ms will die and become a zombie | Dec 18 14:55 |
| MinceR | especially if it limits what you can run on it | Dec 18 14:55 |
| MinceR | i know you can run virtual machines on it, but then the whole idea loses its point | Dec 18 14:55 |
| Adus | Diablo-D3: ms is not going to die :p | Dec 18 14:56 |
| Adus | and if it does, it will be a slow and drawn out process. Like Sun. | Dec 18 14:56 |
| oiaohm | I have had the nightmares of having to work on pos's that are just remote telnets with network based printing for read out and dockets Diablo-D3 | Dec 18 14:56 |
| oiaohm | The idea of everything web does not fill me with joy. | Dec 18 14:57 |
| schestowitz | Define "die" | Dec 18 14:57 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is not an organism | Dec 18 14:57 |
| Adus | and I'm utterly convinced that Apple or Google taking the MS crown, which is what would happen. Linux sure as hell won't. Would not be desirable. | Dec 18 14:57 |
| MinceR | Adus: what makes you think that slow and drawn out process isn't already underway? | Dec 18 14:57 |
| schestowitz | [14:57] <Adus> and I'm utterly convinced that Apple or Google taking the MS crown, which is what would happen. Linux sure as hell won't. Would not be desirable. | Dec 18 14:57 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft says its #1 threat is Google | Dec 18 14:58 |
| Adus | I would agree with that. | Dec 18 14:58 |
| oiaohm | If Google takes the crown. Google will take Linux with them Adus | Dec 18 14:58 |
| schestowitz | It has been saying it publicly and privately for about a decade | Dec 18 14:58 |
| MinceR | m$ keeps lying about what they consider a threat | Dec 18 14:58 |
| Adus | Apple and Microsoft might not like each other alot, but they need eachother right now | Dec 18 14:58 |
| schestowitz | OOPS | Dec 18 14:58 |
| MinceR | so take it with a bag of salt | Dec 18 14:58 |
| Adus | Google is the threat | Dec 18 14:58 |
| schestowitz | I meant Linux | Dec 18 14:58 |
| schestowitz | Not Google | Dec 18 14:58 |
| schestowitz | Freudian slip | Dec 18 14:58 |
| oiaohm | Adus: both Linux and Google are a threat. | Dec 18 14:58 |
| schestowitz | #1 threat is Linux | Dec 18 14:58 |
| Adus | Microsoft don' | Dec 18 14:58 |
| Adus | don't consider it to be* | Dec 18 14:58 |
| Adus | not in all markets anyway | Dec 18 14:58 |
| Adus | servers maybe | Dec 18 14:59 |
| oiaohm | Reason Linux provides a foundation for anyone include google to use against MS. | Dec 18 14:59 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Dec 18 14:59 |
| schestowitz | And IBM... | Dec 18 14:59 |
| schestowitz | ANd many others | Dec 18 14:59 |
| schestowitz | HP, Intel...... | Dec 18 14:59 |
| cubezzz | there won't be one dominant system I don't think | Dec 18 14:59 |
| MinceR | Adus: also, we all know that GNU/Linux taking the crown is not desirable _for you_ and we don't mind. | Dec 18 14:59 |
| schestowitz | GNU/Linux is at the crentre of platform as commodity | Dec 18 14:59 |
| oiaohm | Would items like Android and chromeOS be possiable without something to stand on Adus | Dec 18 14:59 |
| cubezzz | it will be more like it used to be, with several major choices | Dec 18 14:59 |
| Adus | oiaohm: Of course they would. Using Linux is a decision, not a neccesity. | Dec 18 14:59 |
| MinceR | all the m$ leaders, slaves and fanboys deserve to suffer. | Dec 18 14:59 |
| Adus | Linux, Windows and BSD/Darwin are not the only oses which exist :p | Dec 18 15:00 |
| oiaohm | Why did google choose Linux insead of items like BSD Adus | Dec 18 15:00 |
| Adus | because they favour the tech I would suspect. | Dec 18 15:00 |
| Adus | Why did Dell choose Microsoft servers? I think it depends on your goals... | Dec 18 15:00 |
| oiaohm | Its simple BSD has less hardware support than Linux same with the other OS's out there Adus | Dec 18 15:00 |
| Adus | Hardware support is not a problem for Google. Maybe with Chrome OS it becomes one | Dec 18 15:01 |
| oiaohm | If you want to take on MS you want to be able to run well were MS cannot. | Dec 18 15:01 |
| Adus | but historically it has not been | Dec 18 15:01 |
| schestowitz | brb phone | Dec 18 15:01 |
| oiaohm | You are aware Google kernel development team is working on fusing there work into the main kernel project Adus | Dec 18 15:01 |
| Adus | oiaohm: I don't doubt it. But I disagree with the reasons. | Dec 18 15:02 |
| oiaohm | yes google has a internal team of 30 developers that work on the Linux kernel. | Dec 18 15:02 |
| oiaohm | That kept patches to themselves for years. | Dec 18 15:02 |
| Adus | I think we have far more to fear from Google than MS or Apple. As consumers. | Dec 18 15:03 |
| *schestowitz off phone | Dec 18 15:03 | |
| oiaohm | Not really Adus | Dec 18 15:03 |
| schestowitz | Google is actually major threat to Microsoft now | Dec 18 15:03 |
| schestowitz | But it was a slip... I meant to type Linux and typed Google | Dec 18 15:03 |
| schestowitz | Linux as in F/LOSS | Dec 18 15:03 |
| oiaohm | Google has never been convicted of major crimes Adus | Dec 18 15:03 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft calls a bundle of things including "Drupal" Linux.... although it refers to it as a phenomenon | Dec 18 15:03 |
| Adus | oiaohm: No, but they will be. | Dec 18 15:03 |
| schestowitz | And now it wants to embrace it | Dec 18 15:04 |
| oiaohm | Yes Google could be powerful. Google has no recored of doing anything to block competition. | Dec 18 15:04 |
| schestowitz | "I'd put the Linux phenomenon really as threat No. 1." Steve Ballmer, 2001 | Dec 18 15:04 |
| oiaohm | there is records about Google counter working to help competition Adus | Dec 18 15:04 |
| Adus | oiaohm: Google doesn't need to block competition. There is no competition. | Dec 18 15:05 |
| Adus | Who is competing with Google, other than Microsoft? | Dec 18 15:05 |
| oiaohm | Google beat there competition fairly. | Dec 18 15:05 |
| Adus | They have no competition... | Dec 18 15:05 |
| oiaohm | These days no competition as formed. But google does not do anything to block a competor coming up. | Dec 18 15:06 |
| oiaohm | If no one attempts to race and you win the race because no one else attempts does not make you a cheater. | Dec 18 15:06 |
| Adus | Because no one has a chance in hell of actually getting anywhere, if they started to, I expect that would change pretty sharpish | Dec 18 15:06 |
| Adus | google are a business, and they want to make money | Dec 18 15:06 |
| Adus | You paint Google like they are some sort of fluffy bunny. They are no better or worse than any other large organisation. | Dec 18 15:07 |
| oiaohm | That is not exactly true. Google has qq.com in china that is competing and winning against it in that market. | Dec 18 15:07 |
| oiaohm | Just because no one bothers in the english speaking world does not mean that someone could not. | Dec 18 15:07 |
| oiaohm | MS attempts have been pritty darn bad on searching. | Dec 18 15:08 |
| Adus | Live search was terrible. I quite like Bing though, it's pretty funky stuff. | Dec 18 15:08 |
| oiaohm | Yet bing has the same mistakes. Users don't want bias searching. They what they are looking for. | Dec 18 15:09 |
| *jono (n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 15:09 | |
| _goblin | Adus, the point is IMO, if Google are "taking over" then until we start seeing allegations against them like we do against MS there really is no issue...I use Google products and the argument I put has nothing to do with market share or monopoly it is purely to do with using the best products from a firm that does not engage in underhanded practices... | Dec 18 15:09 |
| oiaohm | Big thing anything about android and chrome os stoping other people from cloning them for there own ends Adus | Dec 18 15:10 |
| _goblin | Microsoft had the ball, if their products had been fit for purpose for me Id probably still be using them. | Dec 18 15:10 |
| cubezzz | so you think Google will become the next Microsoft? | Dec 18 15:10 |
| oiaohm | Nothing google does blocks anyone from competing with them with there own tools. Adus | Dec 18 15:10 |
| oiaohm | Google will only get dominate if people decide not to race google for the prize. | Dec 18 15:11 |
| _goblin | ? Maybe, and I don't see a problem from them having a massive chunk of the market as long as there are no issues of underhandedness | Dec 18 15:11 |
| MinceR | i'd like to see competitors to google | Dec 18 15:11 |
| Adus | I think there is room for Google, MS and Apple in the market | Dec 18 15:11 |
| Adus | and I think having all 3 is probably a good thing for the end user | Dec 18 15:11 |
| _goblin | I recently considered how much "Google" I was using........Chromium, DNS, Googlemail, Googleapps.....thats quite alot of google...... | Dec 18 15:12 |
| MinceR | Adus: that's a very grim market then. | Dec 18 15:12 |
| oiaohm | MS threated to kill Google many times Adus | Dec 18 15:12 |
| Adus | oiaohm: Yeh, but they won't. | Dec 18 15:12 |
| oiaohm | We don't need companies that threaten to kill other companies. | Dec 18 15:12 |
| _goblin | adus: There is never any room for MS (IMO) since they don't place nice and don't want anyone else.... | Dec 18 15:12 |
| MinceR | google is abusive, m$ and crApple are evil and produce only shit. | Dec 18 15:12 |
| oiaohm | So I see no room for MS due to the abuse they have done. | Dec 18 15:12 |
| oiaohm | Basically MS need to be killed to be a leason. | Dec 18 15:12 |
| MinceR | and any of those three would lead to an orwellian nightmare dystopia if they got enough power. | Dec 18 15:12 |
| Adus | It won't happen oiaohm :) | Dec 18 15:13 |
| MinceR | Adus: keep telling yourself that. | Dec 18 15:13 |
| oiaohm | No company is too big to fail Adus | Dec 18 15:13 |
| _goblin | oiaohm: But not a lesson to Microsoft more for anyone else with the same intentions. | Dec 18 15:13 |
| Adus | If you really think Microsoft are going to disapear or die any time in the near future you really are cracked. | Dec 18 15:14 |
| _goblin | oiaohm: I don't hold any malice towards MS simply because they acted like many other companies would given half the chance...... | Dec 18 15:14 |
| _goblin | adus: Who said that? | Dec 18 15:14 |
| oiaohm | I did not say soon Adus | Dec 18 15:14 |
| _goblin | adus: I think he used the word "need" not "will" | Dec 18 15:14 |
| oiaohm | Could take 5 years it could take 20 years. End result most likely will be the same unless MS can refactor. | Dec 18 15:15 |
| oiaohm | Hardware companies are moving way from paying for OS's. | Dec 18 15:15 |
| Adus | MS has changed a lot in the last few years. | Dec 18 15:15 |
| _goblin | I would like Microsoft to stick around....they've given the world some great "gifts" | Dec 18 15:15 |
| oiaohm | Instead they want unlimit licences at no cost and paid support to add features Adus | Dec 18 15:15 |
| _goblin | where else would we see Ballmer monkey boy vids? | Dec 18 15:15 |
| _goblin | or the Windows 7 party ads? | Dec 18 15:16 |
| oiaohm | Problem is for MS paid support to add features is way less income Adus | Dec 18 15:16 |
| oiaohm | And paid support expects results. | Dec 18 15:16 |
| _goblin | Party vids, Ballmer madness.....great stuff.....you can't buy that type of entertainment. | Dec 18 15:16 |
| oiaohm | Or they will take there money else were. | Dec 18 15:16 |
| Adus | IEB was basically non-existant 10 years ago. Now they look after Zune, Xbox, Microsoft Game Studios, DirectX etc etc | Dec 18 15:17 |
| oiaohm | My Issue Adus I don't see MS being able to restruct efectively.. | Dec 18 15:17 |
| Adus | oiaohm: They already have been | Dec 18 15:17 |
| oiaohm | Really not Adus | Dec 18 15:17 |
| _goblin | Whats Zune? ;) | Dec 18 15:17 |
| Adus | You're wrong, you're just wrong. | Dec 18 15:17 |
| Adus | I know this for a fact. | Dec 18 15:17 |
| Adus | The recent headcount reductions were in order to restructure. The overall headcount will not change. | Dec 18 15:18 |
| oiaohm | Most of the CE and moblie phone market was lost Adus | Dec 18 15:18 |
| Adus | Windows Mobile is quite a small department. I know the lead rendering programmer | Dec 18 15:18 |
| oiaohm | Items like Zune have completely failed to take off. | Dec 18 15:18 |
| Adus | they are only like 50 people | Dec 18 15:18 |
| _goblin | Have MS made any money on the 360 hardware? | Dec 18 15:18 |
| Adus | _goblin: We do now. | Dec 18 15:18 |
| Adus | Not at first though | Dec 18 15:19 |
| _goblin | "We"? | Dec 18 15:19 |
| Adus | and the RROD issue cost a lot of cash to put right | Dec 18 15:19 |
| Adus | Adus is n=joeh@nat/microsoft/x-qitudkmrynznikbf | Dec 18 15:19 |
| Adus | :p | Dec 18 15:19 |
| oiaohm | Xbox360 is really a double sided sword. | Dec 18 15:19 |
| _goblin | and what of Nintendo? | Dec 18 15:19 |
| Adus | I thought everyone knew that. | Dec 18 15:19 |
| _goblin | did WII not destroy your figures? | Dec 18 15:20 |
| Adus | _goblin: Nintendo have definitely won this generation, by a large marging | Dec 18 15:20 |
| Adus | they are losing momentum now though, hence the Wii HD rumours | Dec 18 15:20 |
| oiaohm | yes you made some profit there but you have lost out on windows sales from gamers Adus | Dec 18 15:20 |
| _goblin | and sony won the last one......whens MS going to jump into action. | Dec 18 15:20 |
| oiaohm | and history tells you being top dog in the game maker is a temporary thing Adus | Dec 18 15:20 |
| Adus | oiaohm: That's not true though. Most PC games are third party anyway | Dec 18 15:20 |
| MinceR | 161402 < oiaohm> Xbox360 is really a double sided sword. | Dec 18 15:21 |
| MinceR | actually, it's a brick. :> | Dec 18 15:21 |
| Adus | oiaohm: Well, Nintendo are the winners this time around. Followed by MS and finally Sony | Dec 18 15:21 |
| oiaohm | Remember sega Adus when they were top. What do they make now. | Dec 18 15:21 |
| Adus | I think all 3 companies are in a strong position for their next consoles though :) | Dec 18 15:21 |
| Adus | oiaohm: Sega were never top. | Dec 18 15:21 |
| Adus | Sega were always small fish against Nintendo | Dec 18 15:21 |
| oiaohm | They were for a time. | Dec 18 15:21 |
| _goblin | and in pushing its Xbox is not MS killing the last bastion of salvation for Windows? that being gaming? | Dec 18 15:21 |
| Adus | _goblin: That's what the whole | Dec 18 15:22 |
| Adus | 3 Screens and a Cloud thing is about | Dec 18 15:22 |
| Adus | Windows, Mobile, Xbox 360 and a cloud :p | Dec 18 15:22 |
| oiaohm | Cloud helps Linux. | Dec 18 15:22 |
| MinceR | consoles can't replace gaming pcs without becoming pcs themselves | Dec 18 15:22 |
| Adus | MinceR: That isn't the intention, the intention is interoperability. | Dec 18 15:22 |
| Adus | Which LIVE! goes a long way to providing, slowly. | Dec 18 15:22 |
| Adus | Certainly between Xbox LIVE and GFWL | Dec 18 15:23 |
| _goblin | Mincer: I think the point with consoles is the plug in and play and the lack of worry about upgrade or patch | Dec 18 15:23 |
| Adus | ^ | Dec 18 15:23 |
| oiaohm | Adus at some point you will colse the gap too much. | Dec 18 15:23 |
| Adus | No, I think you miss the intention of consoles | Dec 18 15:23 |
| Adus | they are to hit new markets. | Dec 18 15:23 |
| oiaohm | by the way I cannot use Xbox360 any more since they blocked third party controllers Adus | Dec 18 15:23 |
| oiaohm | They never designed the controller for a 6 foot 4 person. | Dec 18 15:23 |
| MinceR | Adus: it's funny to hear m$ guys talk about "interoperability" | Dec 18 15:24 |
| _goblin | Adus: So as we move into more of the cloud, the popularity of online apps and the inability for MS to grasp the market in entertainment/online....whats the future for MS. | Dec 18 15:24 |
| MinceR | 161734 < _goblin> Mincer: I think the point with consoles is the plug in and play and the lack of worry about upgrade or patch | Dec 18 15:24 |
| oiaohm | A few third parties made larger controllers for larger people Adus | Dec 18 15:24 |
| MinceR | that can be solved by killing windows | Dec 18 15:24 |
| _goblin | true | Dec 18 15:24 |
| _goblin | look at Wine..... | Dec 18 15:24 |
| Adus | _goblin: MS have grabbed the entertainment market far better than anyone else. | Dec 18 15:24 |
| _goblin | adus: Zune? Xbox? What are you talking about? | Dec 18 15:25 |
| cubezzz | yeah Ballmer was pretty entertaining | Dec 18 15:25 |
| _goblin | Ill go with that | Dec 18 15:25 |
| Adus | Xbox | Dec 18 15:25 |
| MinceR | Adus: i think i'd ask nintendo about that. | Dec 18 15:25 |
| _goblin | Xbox? | Dec 18 15:25 |
| _goblin | lol | Dec 18 15:25 |
| _goblin | PS2? | Dec 18 15:25 |
| Adus | MinceR: The Wii is a games console, not an entertainment device | Dec 18 15:25 |
| oiaohm | Adus: no one has held the entertainment market for ever. | Dec 18 15:25 |
| _goblin | yet again playing second fiddle in a market they decided to get involved in. | Dec 18 15:25 |
| *gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 15:25 | |
| Adus | it's only a games console. The same cannot be said for Xbox 360 and PS3 | Dec 18 15:25 |
| _goblin | no it can... | Dec 18 15:25 |
| MinceR | Adus: lol | Dec 18 15:26 |
| _goblin | its just MS wants to tack on as many paying services as it can. | Dec 18 15:26 |
| cubezzz | hardware comes and goes quickly | Dec 18 15:26 |
| _goblin | it wants it to be jack of all trades. | Dec 18 15:26 |
| MinceR | Adus: so someone can conquer an entire market by making up a new name for their device now? | Dec 18 15:26 |
| MinceR | sounds like a business plan | Dec 18 15:26 |
| cubezzz | in 10 years you won't even care | Dec 18 15:26 |
| Adus | I can't believe you are actually trying to argue the Xbox 360 has not been a success | Dec 18 15:26 |
| _goblin | it has...... | Dec 18 15:26 |
| _goblin | but again, not the desired one that MS intended. | Dec 18 15:27 |
| MinceR | it was a success at making people buy unreliable crap over and over, i can see that | Dec 18 15:27 |
| _goblin | and yet again, second fiddle to another. | Dec 18 15:27 |
| Adus | It's done better than the forecasts MS made _goblin | Dec 18 15:27 |
| _goblin | so? | Dec 18 15:27 |
| schestowitz | [15:15] <Adus> MS has changed a lot in the last few years. | Dec 18 15:27 |
| schestowitz | Yes, they sue FOSS | Dec 18 15:27 |
| _goblin | my blog does better than forecasts....what does that prove. | Dec 18 15:27 |
| MinceR | they also use FLOSS, but try to keep it in secret | Dec 18 15:28 |
| MinceR | while claiming that it's the work of the devil | Dec 18 15:28 |
| _goblin | or just hope nobody notices the lifted code. | Dec 18 15:28 |
| cubezzz | any hardware is transitory | Dec 18 15:28 |
| MinceR | they even publish some of their crap under the GPL while saying that GPL is evil | Dec 18 15:28 |
| cubezzz | here today, gone tomorrow | Dec 18 15:28 |
| Adus | MinceR: I don't think they had a choice? :p | Dec 18 15:28 |
| MinceR | they're getting more ridiculous all the time | Dec 18 15:28 |
| oiaohm | So what are you going to do when dlink cisco and others decide to enter the entertainment business Adus | Dec 18 15:28 |
| MinceR | Adus: actually they had | Dec 18 15:28 |
| MinceR | Adus: but they don't seem to consider "not spewing bullshit" an option | Dec 18 15:29 |
| MinceR | Adus: just like they don't consider "developing quality products" an option, either | Dec 18 15:29 |
| Adus | oiaohm: They won't. The next generation will be Nintendo, MS and Sony again | Dec 18 15:29 |
| oiaohm | Adus: remember most hardware makers have not bothered about the entertainment business because it was too small fry. | Dec 18 15:29 |
| Adus | and I'll worry about after thatr in 10 years :) | Dec 18 15:29 |
| MinceR | it's just lies, shoddy products with lots of marketing and legal maneuvering | Dec 18 15:29 |
| Adus | LCA are like a mini army :p | Dec 18 15:29 |
| oiaohm | Not exactly Adus | Dec 18 15:29 |
| _goblin | Adus: You know do you ever wonder why MS can't do anything without having detractors? | Dec 18 15:30 |
| schestowitz | Marketing is a $1+ TRILLION?YEAR industry in the US | Dec 18 15:30 |
| schestowitz | Imposed stupidity | Dec 18 15:30 |
| oiaohm | Next generation is EVO as well Adus | Dec 18 15:30 |
| schestowitz | Probably biggest sector | Dec 18 15:30 |
| schestowitz | Meta-sector | Dec 18 15:30 |
| schestowitz | meanwhile China actually makes something | Dec 18 15:30 |
| oiaohm | And any others that decide to enter the game Adus | Dec 18 15:30 |
| Adus | oiaohm: Let me rephrase. The only people who will do well in the next generation will be Sony, MS and Nintendo again | Dec 18 15:30 |
| schestowitz | Do well? | Dec 18 15:31 |
| _goblin | I would doubt your Xbox doing well.... | Dec 18 15:31 |
| schestowitz | Sony and Microsoft lost billiobs | Dec 18 15:31 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. | Dec 18 15:31 |
| schestowitz | Depends what you mean by "Well" | Dec 18 15:31 |
| _goblin | how many returns did the 360 get? Only to be outsold in months by Nintendo | Dec 18 15:31 |
| Adus | Microsoft have made money on the 360 now... | Dec 18 15:31 |
| schestowitz | Nope | Dec 18 15:31 |
| _goblin | really? made the experiment worthwhile....? | Dec 18 15:31 |
| schestowitz | It lost about $6bn | Dec 18 15:32 |
| oiaohm | Remember the same framework that is in the EVO dlink will be using in there boxee Adus | Dec 18 15:32 |
| Adus | schestowitz: That's simply untrue :) | Dec 18 15:32 |
| oiaohm | This will be the problem. There will be a lot more edge items Adus using the tech required to step up. Adus | Dec 18 15:32 |
| _goblin | MS didn't even have the forsight to get the the next gen drive right.......what happened to hdvd? | Dec 18 15:32 |
| oiaohm | The interesting part will be how many will Adus | Dec 18 15:32 |
| MinceR | they'll redefine "do well" if they have to, but they'll "do well" no matter what ;) | Dec 18 15:32 |
| Adus | But anyway, none of this matters to me. I'm at MGS | Dec 18 15:33 |
| _goblin | I think thats the problem now with MS....it doesnt matter to people... | Dec 18 15:33 |
| Adus | What matters to me is the department I work in | Dec 18 15:33 |
| Adus | I have no control over anything else | Dec 18 15:33 |
| oiaohm | It would get warped if andriod ends up console | Dec 18 15:34 |
| MinceR | Adus: marketing or legal? | Dec 18 15:34 |
| _goblin | to be fair, its good of Adus to come here.... | Dec 18 15:34 |
| Adus | MinceR? Me? | Dec 18 15:34 |
| MinceR | (don't tell me there are other departments) | Dec 18 15:34 |
| Adus | Neither. I work in MGS | Dec 18 15:34 |
| Adus | Our mission statement is "To deliver innovative entertainment experiences for Core, New Audiences and LIVE." | Dec 18 15:34 |
| MinceR | sounds like marketing to me | Dec 18 15:34 |
| MinceR | :> | Dec 18 15:34 |
| _goblin | its meaningless to me. | Dec 18 15:34 |
| _goblin | its like one of those "feature rich" comments thats tacked onto every MS product... | Dec 18 15:35 |
| oiaohm | The worst nightmare would be for all the consoles is if the tv makers decide to get in the game. | Dec 18 15:35 |
| _goblin | agreed. | Dec 18 15:35 |
| _goblin | and why shouldnt sony consider this with its own brand? | Dec 18 15:35 |
| oiaohm | That is also on the cards. | Dec 18 15:36 |
| _goblin | also you know have Apple in on the console market (of sorts) with its TV docking station. | Dec 18 15:36 |
| oiaohm | There is nothing to say that the next generation will not be a flop for nintendo and microsoft. | Dec 18 15:36 |
| oiaohm | Sony would be fine they make TV's. | Dec 18 15:36 |
| Adus | It's snowing here today | Dec 18 15:37 |
| Adus | http://i49.tinypic.com/5ur50i.jpg | Dec 18 15:37 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Dec 18 15:37 |
| _goblin | oiaohm: True, look at the fall from grace of the SNES to N64 | Dec 18 15:37 |
| _goblin | oiaohm: or PS2 to PS3 | Dec 18 15:37 |
| oiaohm | Putting the console in the screen makes sence. | Dec 18 15:37 |
| oiaohm | No more HDMI problems. | Dec 18 15:37 |
| _goblin | oiaohm: at least MS managed to improve on their popularity from Xbox to 360..... | Dec 18 15:37 |
| _goblin | to be fair, I did think 360 was the best of the three......however the kids use the WII....360 is gone. | Dec 18 15:38 |
| oiaohm | The big problem you have is all the Linux based tech for consoles could pop up in anything Adus. | Dec 18 15:38 |
| oiaohm | Including TV's. Adus | Dec 18 15:38 |
| oiaohm | The idea that Linux is not a threat compared to google is a very big joke. | Dec 18 15:39 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Dec 18 15:41 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] U.S. Defense Department Moves to More GNU/Linux, UK High Schools Too http://ur1.ca/i5ic http://ur1.ca/i5ie | Dec 18 15:49 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: MOTSU awards deal for Linux migration - UPI.com .::. Size~: 57.35 KB | Dec 18 15:49 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux Simpler to Manage Also at Deployment Level http://bit.ly/4XJwI3 | Dec 18 15:51 | |
| _goblin | Adus: whereabouts is that? | Dec 18 15:52 |
| Adus | Is what? | Dec 18 15:52 |
| _goblin | sorry the photo | Dec 18 15:53 |
| Adus | Oh, we're based in Guildford, Surrey in the UK | Dec 18 15:53 |
| _goblin | ah... | Dec 18 15:53 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux Desktop Tops #Windows in Features, #ASUS Adds #NTFS Access http://ur1.ca/i5iq http://ur1.ca/i5is | Dec 18 15:53 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux 2.6.33 RC1 is Already Announced http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/929499 | Dec 18 15:53 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Thoughts on Technology: Top Ten Things I Miss in Windows .::. Size~: 99.05 KB | Dec 18 15:53 |
| _goblin | Bedfordshire here.... | Dec 18 15:53 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: ASUS Selects Paragon Software for End-to-End Linux-Based Solutions to Access Windows Formatted Hard Drives .::. Size~: 57.49 KB | Dec 18 15:53 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Gmane -- Mail To News And Back Again .::. Size~: 4.82 KB | Dec 18 15:53 |
| Adus | Any snow? | Dec 18 15:53 |
| _goblin | much worse.... | Dec 18 15:53 |
| _goblin | foot and a half. | Dec 18 15:53 |
| _goblin | Im out in the sticks so no gritter. | Dec 18 15:54 |
| Adus | It's like that where I live. :) | Dec 18 15:54 |
| Adus | I live in a little village just out of Guildford | Dec 18 15:54 |
| _goblin | its started up again....careful on the roads home. | Dec 18 15:54 |
| Adus | Lionhead are based at the Surrey Research park though | Dec 18 15:54 |
| Adus | which is built up | Dec 18 15:54 |
| Adus | Was a nightmare this morning, I was late. | Dec 18 15:55 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Graphics Stack of #Linux Gets Wonderful Christmas Presents http://ur1.ca/i5iu http://ur1.ca/i3uq | Dec 18 15:55 | |
| _goblin | I couldn't get into London today.....good because Ive got the day off..... | Dec 18 15:55 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: [Phoronix] AMD Catalyst 9.12 For Linux Released .::. Size~: 16.16 KB | Dec 18 15:55 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: [Phoronix] The xorg.conf.d Patches Emerge .::. Size~: 17.71 KB | Dec 18 15:55 |
| Adus | Last day I'm working this year though :D | Dec 18 15:55 |
| Adus | We close up for christmas at 6pm tonight | Dec 18 15:55 |
| _goblin | Im on until xmas eve | Dec 18 15:55 |
| Adus | not open again til 4th of January | Dec 18 15:56 |
| _goblin | got xmas day off this year and then back boxing.... | Dec 18 15:56 |
| _goblin | * boxing day....not boxing.... | Dec 18 15:56 |
| Adus | :p | Dec 18 15:56 |
| Adus | My partner is working until tuesday, so can't go away til then. | Dec 18 15:57 |
| Adus | Going to Norway for Xmas :) | Dec 18 15:57 |
| *jono has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Dec 18 15:57 | |
| _goblin | Adus: lucky......going to Harpenden for Xmas (parents) | Dec 18 15:57 |
| Adus | I used to live in Norway and my partner is Norwegian | Dec 18 15:57 |
| Adus | Stavanger :D | Dec 18 15:57 |
| _goblin | Home of Lordi? | Dec 18 15:57 |
| Adus | Lordi are Finnish :p | Dec 18 15:58 |
| _goblin | doh | Dec 18 15:58 |
| Adus | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stavanger | Dec 18 15:58 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Stavanger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 126.9 KB | Dec 18 15:58 |
| _goblin | very nice! Even the cranes look pretty! | Dec 18 15:59 |
| Adus | It's a nice part of the world, I miss it. | Dec 18 15:59 |
| _goblin | if I can ask, what made you visit the BN channel? | Dec 18 15:59 |
| Adus | Source of entertainment? | Dec 18 15:59 |
| _goblin | lol.....this is what MS is missing.....an approachable face.....a decent conversation. If MS behaved the way you do then they wouldn't have half the detractors they do. | Dec 18 16:01 |
| Adus | We aren't all evil :p | Dec 18 16:01 |
| _goblin | but you are one of a few.....Most MS faithful don't act in the way you do.... | Dec 18 16:01 |
| Adus | Yes they do. Your perception is just not broad enough. | Dec 18 16:02 |
| Adus | You think everyone at Microsoft is some hardcore Microsoft fan? | Dec 18 16:02 |
| _goblin | I'll be fair, every MS employee Ive spoken with has been polite and friendly.... | Dec 18 16:02 |
| Adus | We have a huge and very talented team at MS. The vast majority of people are very friendly :) | Dec 18 16:03 |
| _goblin | I am meaning those that seek to promote MS outside of MS.... | Dec 18 16:03 |
| _goblin | either 3rd party promoters or those after a free gift. | Dec 18 16:03 |
| Adus | There are fanboys of everyone, and might I add the Apple and Linux ones are *far* worse than the MS ones | Dec 18 16:04 |
| Adus | Nintendo fanboys are perhaps the very worst. | Dec 18 16:04 |
| _goblin | adus: I'll agree with fanboys, however keep in mind that MS tech is not like gaming and many of the offensive vulgar people are those who are very learned... | Dec 18 16:04 |
| _goblin | * and not kids.... | Dec 18 16:05 |
| _goblin | I've yet to be attacked by a vulgar FOSS user (and Ive promoted proprietary quite a few times) | Dec 18 16:05 |
| cubezzz | not always the case | Dec 18 16:05 |
| cubezzz | kids can be polite, and adults can be vulgar | Dec 18 16:05 |
| cubezzz | adults should know better of course | Dec 18 16:06 |
| _goblin | but when looking at gaming it is rather more common for kids to be involved than when say discussing .net | Dec 18 16:06 |
| _goblin | or GPL violations. | Dec 18 16:06 |
| cubezzz | programmer's don't argue? :) | Dec 18 16:06 |
| Adus | I'll be very unpopular in here for saying that I actually think .NET is a fantastic piece of technology | Dec 18 16:06 |
| Adus | :D | Dec 18 16:06 |
| _goblin | thats not a problem....(speaking for myself) | Dec 18 16:07 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware Licensing in Pictures http://blogs.fsfe.org/adridg/?p=576 | Dec 18 16:07 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Understanding licenses, bit by bit (2) « Bobulate .::. Size~: 24.43 KB | Dec 18 16:07 |
| _goblin | I think the problem is more (for me) with the ethos of the company driving that platform. | Dec 18 16:07 |
| MinceR | Adus: would they let you keep your job if you didn't? :> | Dec 18 16:07 |
| Adus | MinceR: Considering I'm not a .NET programmer, I expect so. | Dec 18 16:07 |
| MinceR | i think there are legal problems as well as ethical problems with it. | Dec 18 16:08 |
| MinceR | and those prevent me from wanting to find out the technical problems with it. :> | Dec 18 16:08 |
| _goblin | but are they only as a result of the company behind it? | Dec 18 16:08 |
| cubezzz | there are univeralists in every field, but with Microsoft it's "One Microsoft Way" | Dec 18 16:08 |
| MinceR | everything there is about it is a result of the company behind it. | Dec 18 16:08 |
| _goblin | "or not at all" | Dec 18 16:08 |
| cubezzz | anyways, they should be avoided | Dec 18 16:08 |
| Adus | I can understand disliking .NET for the fact it's propriatory, but other than that, I think there is very little bad you can say about .NET | Dec 18 16:09 |
| Adus | and propriatory tech doesn't bother me, if it does what I want it do | Dec 18 16:09 |
| MinceR | Adus: then you aren't sufficiently informed about the issue. | Dec 18 16:09 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat Makes Moves to Attract More Partners http://www.linuxit.com/major-gains-for-red-hat-demands-increased-commitment-from-partners.php | Dec 18 16:09 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Major gains for Red Hat demands increased commitment from partners : LinuxIT .::. Size~: 23.92 KB | Dec 18 16:09 |
| Adus | MinceR: About what issue? | Dec 18 16:09 |
| _goblin | its an interesting question though........ if .net was from Borland (for example) would there be such a resistance to it? | Dec 18 16:09 |
| MinceR | Adus: luckily, i happen to know about a website which can help you with that. :> | Dec 18 16:09 |
| MinceR | Adus: the mono/.net patent trap. | Dec 18 16:09 |
| Adus | I'm not talking about Mono | Dec 18 16:10 |
| cubezzz | _goblin, probably not | Dec 18 16:10 |
| Adus | I'm talking about .NET as a technology | Dec 18 16:10 |
| MinceR | you're talking about .net, which is the exact same thing. | Dec 18 16:10 |
| MinceR | other side of the same patent trap | Dec 18 16:10 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNOME 3.0 and #KDE 4.4 Progress Reports http://ur1.ca/i5jz http://ur1.ca/i5k0 | Dec 18 16:10 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: [Phoronix] Nautilus Begins To Change For GNOME 3.0 .::. Size~: 16.28 KB | Dec 18 16:10 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: aseigo: the pulse .::. Size~: 103.83 KB | Dec 18 16:10 |
| MinceR | also, you seem to be incapable of noticing substrings in a word. :> | Dec 18 16:10 |
| _goblin | so I think its fair to say .net would be accepted if it didn't come from the company with its ethos of "one microsoft way" | Dec 18 16:10 |
| cubezzz | closed source is bad, period | Dec 18 16:11 |
| _goblin | mmm | Dec 18 16:11 |
| Adus | _goblin: There are an army of lawyers waiting for Microsoft to slip up | Dec 18 16:11 |
| cubezzz | without the source, you got nothing | Dec 18 16:11 |
| Adus | no other company has that sort of attention | Dec 18 16:11 |
| MinceR | _goblin: if it didn't come from m$, it would be entirely different | Dec 18 16:11 |
| cubezzz | you're just a consumer | Dec 18 16:11 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Waiting at gatwick train station for a mythical carriage to transport me to a pub in haywards heath. #uksnow #fb | Dec 18 16:11 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux #Mint Community is Born, More Participation from Users Expected http://www.linuxmint.com/blog/?p=1195 | Dec 18 16:11 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: The Linux Mint Blog » Blog Archive » community.linuxmint.com (alpha) .::. Size~: 15.48 KB | Dec 18 16:11 |
| Adus | cubezzz: I fundamentally disagree with that attitude :) | Dec 18 16:11 |
| MinceR | _goblin: especially considering that the driving force behind is that "java wasn't invented here" | Dec 18 16:11 |
| cubezzz | even Sony uses FOSS now | Dec 18 16:11 |
| _goblin | agreed.....(both mincer and cubezz) | Dec 18 16:11 |
| _goblin | however..... | Dec 18 16:11 |
| MinceR | at least that was the original driving force | Dec 18 16:11 |
| _goblin | gaming.....certainly (IMO) wouldnt be viable unless its closed. | Dec 18 16:12 |
| Adus | I have no issue with open standards, but open source is a bit too far for me in most cases. | Dec 18 16:12 |
| Adus | Depends what it is of course. | Dec 18 16:12 |
| cubezzz | open source pfffft | Dec 18 16:12 |
| cubezzz | FOSS | Dec 18 16:12 |
| MinceR | now there's also the "since nobody believes our previous patent FUD, let's forcibly inject our patented crap into GNU/Linux" | Dec 18 16:12 |
| MinceR | angle. | Dec 18 16:12 |
| cubezzz | open source is too soft | Dec 18 16:12 |
| Adus | I see no reason at all a games company should turn over the code for the engine and game they have spent millions of dollars and several years to create. | Dec 18 16:13 |
| cubezzz | Microsoft just extracts and extracts, that's all they do | Dec 18 16:13 |
| _goblin | adus: Completely agree.... | Dec 18 16:13 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] " #Ubuntu 9.10 is Great" http://ur1.ca/i5kf http://ur1.ca/i5kg http://ur1.ca/i5ki http://ur1.ca/i5kk | Dec 18 16:13 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Zeins place on the net » Blog Archive » Ubuntu 9.10 is great .::. Size~: 15.33 KB | Dec 18 16:13 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Setting up Ubuntu 9.10 | Tombuntu .::. Size~: 36.5 KB | Dec 18 16:13 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: OMG! UBUNTU!: WillWillIbex One of The Best Forgotten Themes For Ubuntu? .::. Size~: 91.75 KB | Dec 18 16:13 |
| _goblin | adus: and a FOSS model would not generate the revenue required..... | Dec 18 16:13 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Ubuntu blogspot: Improvements Coming To The Desktop Notification Area .::. Size~: 160.07 KB | Dec 18 16:13 |
| Adus | _goblin: Precisely. | Dec 18 16:13 |
| MinceR | Adus: m$ is not a games company, it's a crime/marketing/legal/world domination company. | Dec 18 16:14 |
| _goblin | adus: I always cite GTA4 there as a good example.... | Dec 18 16:14 |
| cubezzz | just make the "customer" pay and pay for the same thing over and over again | Dec 18 16:14 |
| MinceR | they just happened to swallow a few game companies along the way | Dec 18 16:14 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #MontyPython Goes for Free/Libre #CMS Software, Kaltura Latches Onto #Drupal http://ur1.ca/i5kt http://ur1.ca/i5ku | Dec 18 16:14 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Monty Python using Drupal | Dries Buytaert .::. Size~: 12.56 KB | Dec 18 16:14 |
| MinceR | some of them have been digested completely (e.g. ensemble studios) | Dec 18 16:14 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Is an Open Source Online Video Platform Right for You? .::. Size~: 45.12 KB | Dec 18 16:14 |
| Adus | Doesn't change the principal though MinceR | Dec 18 16:14 |
| Adus | When something costs a lot of money to create, why should you turn the code over? | Dec 18 16:15 |
| _goblin | Adus: Why did MS get rid of its Flightsim product? | Dec 18 16:15 |
| Adus | _goblin: Doesn't fit in with the aims of the company moving forward I guess. | Dec 18 16:15 |
| Adus | We only have limited headcount, so they have to decide what to spend their mony on. | Dec 18 16:15 |
| cubezzz | so you end up with a useless binary blob no one can upgrade | Dec 18 16:15 |
| MinceR | also, once m$, crApple, adobe and the ones who would follow in their footsteps die, the whole "free software vs. open source" debate can be marginalized | Dec 18 16:15 |
| _goblin | Adus: The Flightsim product had much respect from its users.....it was such a shame that one of the few products where "Microsoft was loved" was cancelled. | Dec 18 16:15 |
| MinceR | as for games, there are some nice FLOSS games, like Nexuiz. | Dec 18 16:16 |
| cubezzz | example: rt2 | Dec 18 16:16 |
| Adus | _goblin: The question is, did that game generate enough "love" in the form of cash? | Dec 18 16:16 |
| Adus | I epxect now. | Dec 18 16:16 |
| Adus | not* | Dec 18 16:16 |
| cubezzz | binary blob, no one can upgrade it or enhance it | Dec 18 16:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Google in Talks to Spread Cheap #GNU #Linux Sub-notebooks http://ur1.ca/i5l2 also: http://ur1.ca/i5l4 | Dec 18 16:16 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Google 'in talks' over Googlenetbook • The Register .::. Size~: 32.39 KB | Dec 18 16:16 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Google Apps Wins Over Another Corporation | WebProNews .::. Size~: 31.59 KB | Dec 18 16:16 |
| Adus | cubezzz: And? | Dec 18 16:16 |
| cubezzz | after 10 years just open it up, that's tons of time to make your money | Dec 18 16:17 |
| cubezzz | but they usually don't | Dec 18 16:17 |
| Adus | I still see no compelling reason a company should turn over the source code for something which has cost them time and money to create. | Dec 18 16:17 |
| Adus | That's a terrible business model :p | Dec 18 16:17 |
| _goblin | adus: But for MS they could have kept it going.....it was one of the products which actually put MS in a good light....my father based his software decisions on Microsoft products as he liked and trusted the flightsim brand. | Dec 18 16:18 |
| MinceR | Adus: have you been introduced to the concept of game mods? | Dec 18 16:18 |
| MinceR | that could give a few hints why. | Dec 18 16:18 |
| Adus | That's not the same MinceR. Very few games you can mod just turn over the full sourcecode | Dec 18 16:18 |
| MinceR | Adus: also, sw development isn't only business. only bill gates and his lawyer friends believe it to be so. | Dec 18 16:19 |
| Adus | I have no issue with providing devkits alongside a game. That's actually a pretty good idea. | Dec 18 16:19 |
| Adus | You might call me evil, but I want paying for the code I write, and paying well. | Dec 18 16:19 |
| MinceR | Adus: also, id Software has opensourced some of their older games already. | Dec 18 16:19 |
| MinceR | Adus: FLOSS has nothing to do with payment. | Dec 18 16:19 |
| cubezzz | you can charge for FOSS as well | Dec 18 16:19 |
| Adus | Yes, but the model makes it uneconomical | Dec 18 16:19 |
| MinceR | Adus: also, code can be FLOSS while game content (maps, models, textures, script, sounds, music) can be proprietary. | Dec 18 16:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | DURR HURR FOSS IS UNPROFITABLE | Dec 18 16:19 |
| MinceR | Diablo-D3: thanks for summing up Adus' point. | Dec 18 16:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | no, Im just making fun of all of you | Dec 18 16:20 |
| Adus | Microsoft opensource MechCommander 2 MinceR | Dec 18 16:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | redhat, sun, and ibm all make a shitload off of foss | Dec 18 16:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | Adus: not true | Dec 18 16:20 |
| Adus | opensourced* | Dec 18 16:20 |
| MinceR | Adus: somehow several dev teams don't mind that it could be uneconomical | Dec 18 16:20 |
| _goblin | Adus: Im off for a while....I really hope you will be on later...nice talking to you..thank you. | Dec 18 16:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | Adus: not only that, its a pretty shitty game, its pretty inferior to shit built with spring | Dec 18 16:21 |
| cubezzz | oh yeah, it's just one big happy family in here :) | Dec 18 16:21 |
| Adus | MinceR: And others do. | Dec 18 16:21 |
| MinceR | Adus: i actually feel sorry for those "developers" who are only in it for the money. | Dec 18 16:21 |
| Adus | It should be there choice. Who are you to tell a programmer what he should or should not do with his own code? | Dec 18 16:21 |
| MinceR | i doubt they can even do a good job. | Dec 18 16:21 |
| cubezzz | when Sony starts to use FOSS, you know things are changing | Dec 18 16:22 |
| MinceR | Adus: i don't tell them. releasing FLOSS is voluntary. | Dec 18 16:22 |
| Adus | MinceR: I am not just in it for the money. I have contributed to multiple open source projects in the past and continue to do so. | Dec 18 16:22 |
| Adus | But it's the choice of the copyright holder, no one elses. | Dec 18 16:22 |
| MinceR | Adus: so you see there's a point to it. | Dec 18 16:22 |
| cubezzz | such as? | Dec 18 16:22 |
| Adus | Yes, I don't fundamentally disagree with the idea of opensource software | Dec 18 16:22 |
| Adus | cubezzz: FIFE | Dec 18 16:23 |
| MinceR | Adus: do you consider open source to be distinct from free software? if so, do you fundamentally disagree with the idea of free software? | Dec 18 16:23 |
| Adus | http://fife.svn.cvsdude.com/engine/trunk/doc/AUTHORS | Dec 18 16:24 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Dec 18 16:24 |
| Adus | Under joeh :) | Dec 18 16:24 |
| cubezzz | what license? | Dec 18 16:24 |
| Adus | FIFE was GPL2, I think it's LGPL they asked permission to change not long ago | Dec 18 16:25 |
| Adus | I've also used AGPL, LGPL, BSD and MSPL in the past | Dec 18 16:25 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Censorship Courtesy of Olympic Web Cops http://ur1.ca/i5m0 #Olympics #fail | Dec 18 16:25 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Tummy warm cozy train. Double seat! | Dec 18 16:25 | |
| Adus | MinceR: I do think they are distinct concepts, yes. | Dec 18 16:25 |
| Adus | Do I disagree with FOSS fundamentally? I suppose to some extent I do. | Dec 18 16:26 |
| MinceR | FS, not FOSS, then. :) | Dec 18 16:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #IntellectualMonopolies Ruin/Obstruct Commerce and Trade http://ur1.ca/i5m4 http://ur1.ca/i5m6 | Dec 18 16:26 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] proof that both xmas number 1 prospects are THE SAME SONG: http://www.rathergood.com/climb | Dec 18 16:26 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Amateur Artist Wants To Ban All Sales Of Old Baltimore Ravens Game Films Over Logo Copyright | Techdirt .::. Size~: 46.92 KB | Dec 18 16:26 |
| cubezzz | the lesser licesense, what a surprise | Dec 18 16:26 |
| Adus | I have particular issue with the GPL | Dec 18 16:26 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Announcement .::. Size~: 15.41 KB | Dec 18 16:26 |
| Adus | Although I have contrbuted to GPLed software in the past, I dislike how GPL is viral. | Dec 18 16:27 |
| cubezzz | selfish people usually do | Dec 18 16:27 |
| Adus | LGPL I can dig. | Dec 18 16:27 |
| MinceR | people willingly serving selfish companies also usually do | Dec 18 16:27 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Analysis of the Genesis of Latest Smears Against #GNU http://www.itwire.com/content/view/30148/1090/ #fud #mono #vmware | Dec 18 16:27 | |
| MinceR | m$ is butthurt about not being able to sell parts of GNU/Linux as if it was their own product, like they do with BSD. | Dec 18 16:28 |
| MinceR | so it's clear why they hate the GPL so much. :> | Dec 18 16:28 |
| cubezzz | of course | Dec 18 16:28 |
| cubezzz | it's all about extracting the maximum $$$ | Dec 18 16:28 |
| MinceR | stealing and profiting from the work of others is what the m$ and crApple ethos is all about. | Dec 18 16:29 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Google Should be Compensated by Media Companies for Promoting Their Material http://ur1.ca/i5md | Dec 18 16:29 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Remote Activation Now a #Monopoly http://techdirt.com/articles/20091216/0819597385.shtml | Dec 18 16:29 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: How the record labels spurned the YouTube opportunity - Telegraph .::. Size~: 76.94 KB | Dec 18 16:29 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Secretive Patent Holder Sues Lots Of Companies For Remote Activation Software | Techdirt .::. Size~: 48.78 KB | Dec 18 16:29 |
| cubezzz | schools do it do | Dec 18 16:29 |
| Adus | I would never release a piece of code under GPL if I wrote it from scratch rather than working on an existing project. The reason is, I think others should be able to use that code without having to make their whole product open. LGPL I think is actually quite a good license. | Dec 18 16:29 |
| Adus | How is that selfish exactly? | Dec 18 16:30 |
| cubezzz | forcing students to pay for Microsoft software | Dec 18 16:30 |
| Adus | LGPL gives the receiver more rights than GPL does. | Dec 18 16:30 |
| cubezzz | so nothing should ever be GPL right Adus? | Dec 18 16:30 |
| cubezzz | in your world | Dec 18 16:30 |
| Adus | I would never release anything under GPL and I can understand why a lot of people and companies dislike it. | Dec 18 16:30 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Sony -- the Felon Behind Illegal Rootkits -- is Shilling for #DRM http://techdirt.com/articles/20091217/0350177406.shtml | Dec 18 16:31 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Sony Ebook Boss: DRM Needs To Stay And Ebooks Should Cost More Than $10 | Techdirt .::. Size~: 139.3 KB | Dec 18 16:31 |
| cubezzz | I see Microsoft has you indoctrinated | Dec 18 16:31 |
| Adus | People bleat on about giving people rights, but that's not what GPL does it limits the rights/options of the person who receives the code. | Dec 18 16:31 |
| MinceR | Adus: taking the work of someone, making a few changes (perhaps improvements) to it and keeping those in secret while selling the altered product is selfish. | Dec 18 16:32 |
| Adus | It is entirely self serving in the way of the publisher. | Dec 18 16:32 |
| Adus | MinceR: LGPL prevents that | Dec 18 16:32 |
| MinceR | also, hiding that you've used the work of others while profiting from it is selfish. | Dec 18 16:32 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Wikipedia Shatters Fundraising Record for Single Day http://ur1.ca/i5mh | Dec 18 16:32 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Wikipedia Shatters Fundraising Record for Single Day | WebProNews .::. Size~: 33.69 KB | Dec 18 16:32 |
| Adus | But that's a breach of license. Let's assume everyone sticks to the licensing terms | Dec 18 16:32 |
| Adus | LGPL is by far a fairer and more open license | Dec 18 16:32 |
| Adus | imho | Dec 18 16:32 |
| MinceR | Adus: i think the choice of LGPL/GPL should depend on whether the package is a library and what function does it fill. | Dec 18 16:32 |
| cubezzz | he's got to say that, he has to toe the company line | Dec 18 16:32 |
| Adus | MinceR: Ok, I'll give you that. For a full product, GPL is fine I would say | Dec 18 16:33 |
| Adus | GPL Libraries are what I take issue with | Dec 18 16:33 |
| MinceR | it's only a breach of license if the licensing matches it | Dec 18 16:33 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The #MAFIAA is Attacking #NetworkNeutrality (Attack on the Small Guy) http://techdirt.com/articles/20091215/1845007377.shtml | Dec 18 16:33 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Songwriters Guild: Network Neutrality Means More Piracy | Techdirt .::. Size~: 106.75 KB | Dec 18 16:33 |
| MinceR | i think it's up to the author of the library to decide. | Dec 18 16:34 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] André Rebentisch Shows Architecture of Back Doors for #SoftwarePatents in #EU http://ur1.ca/i5mp #swpat | Dec 18 16:34 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Policy Portfolios for New EU-Commissioners « Sköne Oke .::. Size~: 17.06 KB | Dec 18 16:34 |
| Adus | MinceR: I agree, but you asked about my opinion | Dec 18 16:34 |
| *gargoyle-grin has quit ("Leaving.") | Dec 18 16:35 | |
| cubezzz | yes, but under his philosophy he would _never_ use the GPL license | Dec 18 16:35 |
| MinceR | to some extent, it comes down to whom does the library author want to use his work. | Dec 18 16:35 |
| Adus | and I think releasing a library under GPL is actually pretty self-serving in the favour of the library writer | Dec 18 16:35 |
| Adus | it's certainly less open I would say | Dec 18 16:35 |
| cubezzz | ridiculous | Dec 18 16:35 |
| MinceR | not self-serving | Dec 18 16:35 |
| cubezzz | it's merely a defense against predators like Microsoft | Dec 18 16:35 |
| MinceR | it "serves" those who use the GPL for their own work. | Dec 18 16:35 |
| MinceR | and thus it helps protect the FLOSS community from unethical companies such as m$ and crApple. | Dec 18 16:36 |
| Adus | cubezzz: No it doesn't. Microsoft are still required to release changes to that library. | Dec 18 16:36 |
| MinceR | Adus: but not to release source code to software that uses that library. | Dec 18 16:36 |
| Adus | MinceR: Yes. | Dec 18 16:36 |
| MinceR | and the functionality of that can be very close to that of the library, depending on the purpose of the library | Dec 18 16:37 |
| cubezzz | right, that's why I said the GPL is a defense against predators | Dec 18 16:37 |
| MinceR | for example, consider the relationship of an HTML renderer library and a web browser. | Dec 18 16:37 |
| MinceR | as opposed to the relationship of a web browser with a GUI toolkit library. | Dec 18 16:37 |
| Adus | But the HTML renderer is the important bit there, not the browser. Any important changes would need to be released. | Dec 18 16:38 |
| cubezzz | I could live with closed source if it was _temporary_ | Dec 18 16:38 |
| cubezzz | maximum 10 years | Dec 18 16:38 |
| cubezzz | for games I suppose | Dec 18 16:38 |
| MinceR | actually, the HTML renderer, the EcmaScript execution engine, the HTTP client and the core browser itself are all important. | Dec 18 16:38 |
| MinceR | and there probably are other components that are important, too. | Dec 18 16:38 |
| cubezzz | e.g. I'd like to make new trains for rt2 | Dec 18 16:39 |
| Adus | Yes MinceR, but if you release a HTML Renderer, I don't see why you should expect to get an ECMAScript execution library when someone uses your code | Dec 18 16:39 |
| Adus | that's illogical imho | Dec 18 16:39 |
| cubezzz | obviously I can't, it's a binary blob | Dec 18 16:39 |
| cubezzz | there's no reason you can't use the GPL _some_ of the time | Dec 18 16:39 |
| Adus | It's not the license which bothers me, it's the claim that it's somehow open | Dec 18 16:40 |
| cubezzz | but the compiler and operating system should be FOSS | Dec 18 16:40 |
| cubezzz | to prevent vendor lock-in | Dec 18 16:40 |
| Adus | which it really isn't. It essentially boxes commercial users out. | Dec 18 16:40 |
| cubezzz | you can still charge money for it | Dec 18 16:41 |
| Adus | under and alternative license? | Dec 18 16:41 |
| Adus | an* | Dec 18 16:41 |
| cubezzz | you just want to be able to charge money for stuff endlessly | Dec 18 16:41 |
| MinceR | Adus: i might want to keep an unethical company who wants to make a web browser from using my HTML renderer, though. | Dec 18 16:41 |
| cubezzz | e.g. the Microsoft Tax on computers | Dec 18 16:41 |
| MinceR | Adus: it is somehow open, and commercial users can use FLOSS, see above | Dec 18 16:41 |
| MinceR | basically GPL protects the users. | Dec 18 16:42 |
| Adus | No, it protects the original developer | Dec 18 16:42 |
| Adus | it does nothing to protect the users. | Dec 18 16:42 |
| Adus | LGPL does that just fine. | Dec 18 16:42 |
| MinceR | can an ordinary user use an HTML rendering engine without a web browser? no. so are his freedoms protected of the browser itself isn't FLOSS? no. | Dec 18 16:44 |
| MinceR | so does GPLing the rendering engine protect the user's freedoms? yes it does. | Dec 18 16:44 |
| Adus | The user of the webbrowser is irrelevant | Dec 18 16:44 |
| cubezzz | how does the LGPL protec the users? | Dec 18 16:44 |
| Adus | it's the users of the library who should be protected. | Dec 18 16:45 |
| MinceR | i thought we were discussing whether the user is protected or not. | Dec 18 16:45 |
| Adus | We are, and the user is the user of the library | Dec 18 16:45 |
| Adus | not an indirect user | Dec 18 16:45 |
| MinceR | the end-users of the library are browser users, actually. | Dec 18 16:45 |
| MinceR | end-users can't just make library calls from the command line. :> | Dec 18 16:45 |
| cubezzz | exactly | Dec 18 16:45 |
| Adus | the user is whoever is using the library. The end-user is someone different entirely. | Dec 18 16:46 |
| MinceR | i meant end-user when i said user. | Dec 18 16:46 |
| MinceR | so -> 'basically GPL protects the end-users.' | Dec 18 16:46 |
| cubezzz | you haven't explained why you would never use the GPL | Dec 18 16:46 |
| Adus | But I still don't see your point. Lets say for a money, Evil Company X wrote it all themself. Nothing would be open. Evil company X on the other hand uses LGPL, at least the renderer changes will need to be published. Evil Company X is not going to use GPL licensed code... So the end-user gets nothing | Dec 18 16:47 |
| Adus | for a moment* | Dec 18 16:47 |
| MinceR | you're assuming that Evil Company X is making all the software | Dec 18 16:47 |
| MinceR | but they aren't | Dec 18 16:47 |
| cubezzz | but obviously people do release under the GPL | Dec 18 16:47 |
| MinceR | in fact, Evil Company X is selling something as a "web browser" that can hardly be called that | Dec 18 16:48 |
| MinceR | and Evil Company Y is ripping off free software projects as well as they can. | Dec 18 16:48 |
| MinceR | (they've even changed the name to mask the original work) | Dec 18 16:48 |
| cubezzz | I bet spyglass wishes they used the GPL :) | Dec 18 16:49 |
| MinceR | this is unsurprising when we consider that the ethos of these companies is about acquiring profit at all costs, not making great products. | Dec 18 16:49 |
| cubezzz | well it wasn't long ago when there was no FOSS | Dec 18 16:50 |
| cubezzz | it's a rather new concept | Dec 18 16:50 |
| cubezzz | well, excepting the very earliest "hacker" era | Dec 18 16:50 |
| MinceR | well, in the beginning there was FLOSS only in practice, not in legal terms. | Dec 18 16:51 |
| cubezzz | Gates is all about extration, that's why he hates the GPL and stuff like wikipedia | Dec 18 16:51 |
| cubezzz | extraction | Dec 18 16:51 |
| Adus | extraction? | Dec 18 16:51 |
| *gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 16:52 | |
| cubezzz | like dumpster diving to get another's companies Basic source | Dec 18 16:52 |
| cubezzz | and using it to write Altair Basic | Dec 18 16:52 |
| MinceR | gates makes his mindset pretty clear in his "open letter to hobbyists" where he practically proclaims that the sole possible point of sw development is profit. | Dec 18 16:52 |
| MinceR | also there was the case of buying stolen CP/M-86 code from a company to "write" m$-DOS | Dec 18 16:52 |
| Adus | Microsoft have very strict policies about using any third-party code. Which is basically "don't" without approval from LCA. Doing so is a sackable offiense. It's blatantly untrue to claim microsoft encourage their developers to steal code. | Dec 18 16:53 |
| cubezzz | so that's the "official" line, eh? :) | Dec 18 16:53 |
| MinceR | i wonder how did the BSD TCP/IP stack end up in windows, then | Dec 18 16:53 |
| MinceR | must have been a miracle | Dec 18 16:53 |
| Adus | MinceR: There were no laws or licensing agreements breached by that use as far as I know? | Dec 18 16:54 |
| MinceR | and the two cases i and cubezzz mentioned | Dec 18 16:54 |
| MinceR | those must have predated that policy | Dec 18 16:54 |
| Adus | Two cases are hardly proof of some all powerful conspiracy. | Dec 18 16:54 |
| MinceR | Adus: and of course in ethical and moral terms only legal issues matter, right? | Dec 18 16:54 |
| Adus | They are policies which are taken very seriously. | Dec 18 16:54 |
| cubezzz | Adus why don't you read some of Allchin's memos? | Dec 18 16:55 |
| MinceR | if something is legal, it must also be the right thing to do? | Dec 18 16:55 |
| cubezzz | about DR DOS | Dec 18 16:55 |
| Adus | We're talking about Microsoft as an entity today | Dec 18 16:55 |
| Adus | not 20 years ago. | Dec 18 16:55 |
| cubezzz | they are conviced monopolists | Dec 18 16:55 |
| schestowitz |  | Dec 18 16:55 |
| schestowitz | [16:41] <cubezzz> you can still charge money for it | Dec 18 16:55 |
| MinceR | their conduct hasn't changed | Dec 18 16:55 |
| schestowitz | [16:41] <Adus> under and alternative license? | Dec 18 16:55 |
| cubezzz | right? right. | Dec 18 16:55 |
| schestowitz | Most money is not made by selling software | Dec 18 16:55 |
| MinceR | only some of their methods | Dec 18 16:55 |
| schestowitz | Sometimes by fixing it | Dec 18 16:55 |
| cubezzz | convicted | Dec 18 16:55 |
| schestowitz | Sometimes things that go on top | Dec 18 16:55 |
| schestowitz | Same with Windows | Dec 18 16:55 |
| schestowitz | The cost of buying Windows is small compared to what gets spent afterwards | Dec 18 16:56 |
| MinceR | iirc they've been convicted multiple times of anticompetitive behavior. | Dec 18 16:56 |
| Adus | but if that whole tree was open source, and you were obliged to release your fix once you had made it schestowitz | Dec 18 16:56 |
| Adus | Where's the profit then? | Dec 18 16:56 |
| MinceR | so then it wasn't even legal, let alone ethical. | Dec 18 16:56 |
| cubezzz | "it's time to knife the baby" | Dec 18 16:56 |
| schestowitz | Adus: what is open source? | Dec 18 16:57 |
| cubezzz | nice eh? | Dec 18 16:57 |
| MinceR | Adus: by doing the fixes first that your customers want the most and are willing to pay for? | Dec 18 16:57 |
| schestowitz | I'm talking about Free software | Dec 18 16:57 |
| MinceR | Adus: by adding features that your customers want and are willing to pay for getting them? | Dec 18 16:57 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: they call TomTom "baby"? | Dec 18 16:57 |
| MinceR | Adus: by assisting your customers with the use of your product? | Dec 18 16:57 |
| Adus | But once it's been done. You can't charge for it again. | Dec 18 16:57 |
| Adus | That's not sustainable. | Dec 18 16:57 |
| schestowitz | To whom? | Dec 18 16:57 |
| schestowitz | The monopolist? | Dec 18 16:57 |
| MinceR | yeah, charging for work once is not sustainable | Dec 18 16:57 |
| Adus | To anyone. | Dec 18 16:57 |
| MinceR | oh wait, that's what most workers do | Dec 18 16:58 |
| MinceR | that's what they've done for thousands of years | Dec 18 16:58 |
| Adus | MinceR: Most workers don't spend tens of millions of dollars working on a specific project. | Dec 18 16:58 |
| cubezzz | you charge an hourly rate | Dec 18 16:58 |
| cubezzz | I don't have any problem making money | Dec 18 16:58 |
| schestowitz | they get tax dollars | Dec 18 16:58 |
| schestowitz | Like NASA | Dec 18 16:58 |
| Adus | That would drive up the price of software. | Dec 18 16:58 |
| MinceR | Adus: i'm sorry for your dream of working a little bit and being paid a lot of money regularly forever for that work is beyond your reach. | Dec 18 16:58 |
| schestowitz | WHich then passes to private hands the outcome | Dec 18 16:58 |
| cubezzz | for adding features... | Dec 18 16:59 |
| cubezzz | which most programmers do | Dec 18 16:59 |
| MinceR | Adus: somehow FLOSS actually drove the price of software down, not up. | Dec 18 16:59 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft staff is like a parallel universe | Dec 18 16:59 |
| Adus | MinceR: I thought that's what us evil people do? :p | Dec 18 16:59 |
| MinceR | Adus: hm? | Dec 18 16:59 |
| cubezzz | I know how "nice" Microsoft is | Dec 18 16:59 |
| MinceR | i think it's a cult, not a parallel universe | Dec 18 16:59 |
| schestowitz | I find this quote priceless: | Dec 18 16:59 |
| schestowitz | [16:57] <Adus> But once it's been done. You can't charge for it again. | Dec 18 16:59 |
| cubezzz | Gatesology :) | Dec 18 17:00 |
| schestowitz | They say about Gates... that his 'genius' is charging for the same drek over and over again | Dec 18 17:00 |
| MinceR | :) | Dec 18 17:00 |
| schestowitz | IOW, turning to subscription, not ownership | Dec 18 17:00 |
| schestowitz | Recipe for sheer abuse | Dec 18 17:00 |
| Adus | So, we make a game. Invest 20 million USD, which is roughly what we spend on each project | Dec 18 17:00 |
| Adus | and what, sell it for 25 million USD to the first buyer? | Dec 18 17:00 |
| cubezzz | "pay forever guaranteed" | Dec 18 17:00 |
| cubezzz | games could get opened later | Dec 18 17:02 |
| cubezzz | like I said before | Dec 18 17:02 |
| cubezzz | but usually that doesn't happen | Dec 18 17:02 |
| Adus | But that still requires selling the game over and over when you first develop it. Which according to you guys is somehow wrong. | Dec 18 17:02 |
| cubezzz | what I suggested was a compromise, but you won't budge | Dec 18 17:02 |
| Adus | I see no issue with releasing the source code for the game after 10 years | Dec 18 17:03 |
| Adus | and providing a development kit for modders | Dec 18 17:03 |
| MinceR | also, games could have their content kept closed (for a while) while the code itself could be FLOSS | Dec 18 17:03 |
| Adus | that's actually beneficial to teh developer, it increases the logevity of the title. | Dec 18 17:03 |
| MinceR | also, nobody forces your customers to not spread your product at no cost. | Dec 18 17:03 |
| cubezzz | well, good, then we can agree... | Dec 18 17:03 |
| MinceR | s/not // | Dec 18 17:03 |
| MinceR | so, what i meant to say was: also, nobody forces your customers to spread your product at no cost. | Dec 18 17:04 |
| cubezzz | unfortunately it doesn't happen very often | Dec 18 17:04 |
| MinceR | different kinds of software may need different business models. | Dec 18 17:05 |
| cubezzz | yes, there's a lot of things that could be tried | Dec 18 17:05 |
| Adus | I mean, are you guys just against capitalism? Is that what it boils down to? | Dec 18 17:07 |
| cubezzz | I don't enjoy reverse engineering | Dec 18 17:07 |
| MinceR | Adus: apparently you don't know what capitalism is | Dec 18 17:07 |
| cubezzz | of course not Adus, it's like you're not listening | Dec 18 17:07 |
| MinceR | Adus: capitalism isn't about keeping your users hostage, solely at your own mercy for improving/repairing your products. it's about free competition. | Dec 18 17:08 |
| cubezzz | I just happen to want to have a FOSS operating system on my computer | Dec 18 17:08 |
| cubezzz | no law against that you know | Dec 18 17:08 |
| MinceR | letting the market decide and keeping anticompetitive conglomerates from forming. | Dec 18 17:08 |
| Adus | MinceR: But FOSS is not about free competition at all. | Dec 18 17:08 |
| MinceR | Adus: how so? | Dec 18 17:09 |
| MinceR | Adus: is that not what letting anyone improve a software product about? | Dec 18 17:09 |
| MinceR | s/ab/is ab/ | Dec 18 17:09 |
| schestowitz | Adus: business models. Yes. | Dec 18 17:09 |
| schestowitz | Adus: business models is what it's about. | Dec 18 17:09 |
| cubezzz | oh, we should be kowtowing to Microsoft and buy Windows everytime? :) | Dec 18 17:09 |
| schestowitz | MAFIAA has the same issues | Dec 18 17:09 |
| cubezzz | are you a stockholder? :) | Dec 18 17:09 |
| MinceR | letting the end users hire anyone to fix a bug or add a particular feature or help deploy sw within your company? | Dec 18 17:09 |
| schestowitz | "we make a film... blah blah.... how to make money?" | Dec 18 17:09 |
| schestowitz | They are shoring up old and dying models | Dec 18 17:10 |
| schestowitz | LIVE is example of a service | Dec 18 17:10 |
| schestowitz | People subscribe to play on the network | Dec 18 17:10 |
| schestowitz | The software can be entirely free | Dec 18 17:10 |
| MinceR | moar like disservice, amirite? | Dec 18 17:10 |
| MinceR | :> | Dec 18 17:10 |
| Adus | The platform is not free though schestowitz :) | Dec 18 17:10 |
| schestowitz | it can be | Dec 18 17:10 |
| Adus | and if it was, 100 other providers would pop up | Dec 18 17:10 |
| schestowitz | Libre | Dec 18 17:10 |
| MinceR | well, the failbox isn't a free platform | Dec 18 17:10 |
| MinceR | neither is winblows | Dec 18 17:10 |
| schestowitz | Works for identica | Dec 18 17:11 |
| MinceR | but those aren't the only platforms around | Dec 18 17:11 |
| cubezzz | Adus, it's like you are brainwashed | Dec 18 17:11 |
| schestowitz | ALso works for Wikipedia | Dec 18 17:11 |
| schestowitz | Works for Mozilla | Dec 18 17:11 |
| schestowitz | WOrks for Red Hat.. | Dec 18 17:11 |
| schestowitz | And so on.. | Dec 18 17:11 |
| cubezzz | I'm pretty sure Red Hat costs money | Dec 18 17:12 |
| Adus | Seriously, you are holding Mozilla up as an example of good open source software? Firefox is total drivel. | Dec 18 17:12 |
| cubezzz | Adus, what should we use then? :) | Dec 18 17:12 |
| cubezzz | enlighten us | Dec 18 17:12 |
| Adus | I use Opera. Chrome seems alright as well. | Dec 18 17:12 |
| MinceR | Adus: well, it's better than IE. | Dec 18 17:12 |
| schestowitz | Insistence on the only business models he had glorified before him | Dec 18 17:12 |
| MinceR | chrome has crappy font rendering. | Dec 18 17:13 |
| schestowitz | Some people used to be firm believers in slavery too.... cause some races are "born to serve" | Dec 18 17:13 |
| Adus | and Firefox eats memory and cpu resource like there is no tomorrow | Dec 18 17:13 |
| MinceR | all browsers do | Dec 18 17:13 |
| MinceR | probably mainly because web pages are horribly bloated | Dec 18 17:13 |
| Adus | Compare Opera and Firefox with the same pages open | Dec 18 17:13 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: tame them | Dec 18 17:13 |
| schestowitz | :-) | Dec 18 17:13 |
| MinceR | but then again, all browsers suck | Dec 18 17:13 |
| schestowitz | Trim them down | Dec 18 17:13 |
| Adus | Even IE uses less resource than Firefox. | Dec 18 17:13 |
| cubezzz | still, it's not the greatest programming for it to just exit | Dec 18 17:13 |
| cubezzz | NO, lynx does not suck :) | Dec 18 17:14 |
| MinceR | Adus: also, i'd like to hear about a browser that's as extensible as firefox. | Dec 18 17:14 |
| schestowitz | Adus: On Linux? | Dec 18 17:14 |
| schestowitz | How stupid a comparison | Dec 18 17:14 |
| MinceR | lynx has no inline image or ecmascript support, afaik | Dec 18 17:14 |
| MinceR | probably no css support either | Dec 18 17:14 |
| MinceR | or fonts | Dec 18 17:14 |
| Adus | Run Firefox, IE and Opera side by side on Windows | Dec 18 17:14 |
| Adus | Firefox will by far use more memory and CPU | Dec 18 17:14 |
| cubezzz | MinceR, I still use it to get the weather | Dec 18 17:14 |
| MinceR | IE is not a web browser, it completely ignores web standards | Dec 18 17:14 |
| schestowitz | Adus: Windows is forged together with IE | Dec 18 17:14 |
| schestowitz | You never though about it, have you? | Dec 18 17:15 |
| MinceR | also, IE cheats on resource measurements | Dec 18 17:15 |
| schestowitz | *thought | Dec 18 17:15 |
| Adus | schestowitz: That's not true on an IE instance level. | Dec 18 17:15 |
| Adus | Each IE frame loads mshtml.dll | Dec 18 17:15 |
| schestowitz | Says Ballmer? | Dec 18 17:15 |
| Adus | Says me. | Dec 18 17:15 |
| MinceR | :) | Dec 18 17:15 |
| schestowitz | Tell it to the EU | Dec 18 17:15 |
| MinceR | see, it's in the name. it isn't HTML, it's m$HTML. | Dec 18 17:15 |
| schestowitz | They disagree, still | Dec 18 17:15 |
| MinceR | :> | Dec 18 17:15 |
| MinceR | there's also m$-CSS and m$-EcmaScript. | Dec 18 17:16 |
| MinceR | and probably m$-HTTP. | Dec 18 17:16 |
| Adus | schestowitz: They disagree with bundling IE and that IE uses non-open features. | Dec 18 17:16 |
| Adus | But forget IE then | Dec 18 17:16 |
| Adus | Opera | Dec 18 17:16 |
| MinceR | i wish i could. | Dec 18 17:16 |
| MinceR | Opera isn't as extensible as Firefox either. | Dec 18 17:16 |
| cubezzz | closed source, I must point that out | Dec 18 17:16 |
| Adus | MinceR: I don't want my web browser to make coffee | Dec 18 17:16 |
| MinceR | and i've seen both browsers crash on certain pages. | Dec 18 17:16 |
| MinceR | Adus: neither do i. | Dec 18 17:17 |
| Adus | i want it to load webpages, quickly. | Dec 18 17:17 |
| cubezzz | I can re-compile lynx in very little time | Dec 18 17:17 |
| Adus | and not be intrusive on system resources | Dec 18 17:17 |
| MinceR | Adus: but i do want a script whitelist, for example. | Dec 18 17:17 |
| MinceR | and i want to block Adobe Trash most of the time | Dec 18 17:17 |
| MinceR | (but not all of the time.) | Dec 18 17:17 |
| Adus | I bet you use Silverlight all the time :p | Dec 18 17:17 |
| MinceR | nope. | Dec 18 17:17 |
| cubezzz | oh and I like my OS to be portable, you know to ARM and other CPUs | Dec 18 17:17 |
| MinceR | i don't even have moonblight installed. | Dec 18 17:17 |
| Adus | I quite like Silverlight from a tech standpoint. MS are a bit late to the party though. | Dec 18 17:18 |
| MinceR | it's funny how m$ employees are madly in love with every single piece of m$ "technology" | Dec 18 17:18 |
| MinceR | maybe they're using brainwashing techniques they've learnt from the clams? :> | Dec 18 17:19 |
| Adus | That's because the CLR really is a cool piece of kit. | Dec 18 17:19 |
| MinceR | it's just like Trash | Dec 18 17:19 |
| cubezzz | it's company policy MinceR :) | Dec 18 17:19 |
| MinceR | video playback is exactly as choppy as well. | Dec 18 17:19 |
| MinceR | seen it on a cow orker's machine :) | Dec 18 17:19 |
| Adus | In 45 minutes, we close up for Xmas | Dec 18 17:20 |
| Adus | :D | Dec 18 17:20 |
| Adus | Looking forward to my holidays | Dec 18 17:20 |
| Adus | not back til jan 4th | Dec 18 17:20 |
| cubezzz | don't hurray back on our account :) | Dec 18 17:20 |
| MinceR | yeah, we'll manage without you and your masters... indefinitely. | Dec 18 17:21 |
| Adus | Haha, the rest of the world won't. Do you know how hardcore Lionhead fans are? I'd be in fear of my life if we canned Fable | Dec 18 17:21 |
| MinceR | 181339 < MinceR> it's just like Trash | Dec 18 17:21 |
| MinceR | ...except Trash is more portable, of course. | Dec 18 17:21 |
| MinceR | Adus: frankly, i don't really give a damn about lionhead fans. | Dec 18 17:22 |
| MinceR | and it isn't like there's a lot of them anyway. | Dec 18 17:22 |
| Adus | Yeh, Fable is only the best selling rpg on the xbox 360, not many sales at all. | Dec 18 17:22 |
| MinceR | and of course every single person who has bought it is a rabid fan of the compeny | Dec 18 17:23 |
| MinceR | s/eny/any/ | Dec 18 17:23 |
| Adus | Lionhead have a strong fanbase, from the bullfrog days | Dec 18 17:23 |
| MinceR | just like every vista license foisted upon users means a fanatic user forever. | Dec 18 17:23 |
| MinceR | oh wait. | Dec 18 17:23 |
| Adus | Not like we put Fable 2 in every 360 box now is it? | Dec 18 17:23 |
| MinceR | not like a player can be unimpressed by a game he has bought now, is it? | Dec 18 17:24 |
| MinceR | that would cause cognitive dissonance, and we can't have that | Dec 18 17:24 |
| Adus | We're expecting to sell more copies of Fable 3 than Fable 2 | Dec 18 17:24 |
| Adus | :) | Dec 18 17:24 |
| MinceR | and i'm expecting m$ to die. | Dec 18 17:25 |
| Adus | and we almost certainly will. | Dec 18 17:25 |
| MinceR | and it almost certainly will. | Dec 18 17:25 |
| Adus | You really are deluded. | Dec 18 17:25 |
| MinceR | you really are deluded. | Dec 18 17:25 |
| MinceR | (see what i did there?) | Dec 18 17:25 |
| Adus | If Fable 3 doesn't sell more copies than Fable 2, I will come back and apologise. But it will | Dec 18 17:26 |
| Adus | Holiday 2010 :) | Dec 18 17:26 |
| MinceR | i wonder if m$ buying a game company means that everyone who liked the products of that one game company will automatically love m$ | Dec 18 17:26 |
| MinceR | i doubt it does | Dec 18 17:26 |
| MinceR | m$ buying ensemble certainly didn't make me love m$ as if i've been brainwashed. | Dec 18 17:26 |
| Adus | I doubt it as well. That's why they retain the brand name I imagine. | Dec 18 17:26 |
| MinceR | so i think actually most of the world will manage without your masters after all. :> | Dec 18 17:27 |
| MinceR | even if lionhead is left without an owner. | Dec 18 17:27 |
| Adus | Oh, I wouldn't worry for Lionhead. As a business unit we are very profitable | Dec 18 17:28 |
| Adus | I'm sure Activision or someone would snap us up | Dec 18 17:28 |
| MinceR | then you sort of see my point already. :> | Dec 18 17:29 |
| Adus | I don't think MS will go bust, but Im also not worried. 1) Because Lionhead would be sold off to make money, and another studio would be interested in buying them. 2) I Get offered jobs at other studios all the time, so I'm not sure I'd have trouble finding another role | Dec 18 17:30 |
| Adus | and MS won't go bust anyway :D | Dec 18 17:30 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] RD: @lwnnet: Fedora 10 End of Life http://lwn.net/Articles/367299/rss | Dec 18 17:34 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Fedora 10 End of Life [LWN.net] .::. Size~: 5.86 KB | Dec 18 17:34 |
| MinceR | Adus: yeah, keep telling yourself that. | Dec 18 17:36 |
| MinceR | though actually i'm somewhat interested in what you think will enable m$ to foist its crappy products once the dominance of the desktop OS market slips from their hands | Dec 18 17:36 |
| MinceR | s/cts/cts on unsuspecting users/ | Dec 18 17:37 |
| Adus | Desktop dominance will not slip from their hands... | Dec 18 17:38 |
| MinceR | oh, i see | Dec 18 17:39 |
| MinceR | the ultimate delusion :) | Dec 18 17:39 |
| Adus | Yes, I'm sure you are more informed than the stakeholders here | Dec 18 17:39 |
| MinceR | i have the advantage of not being fed bullshit daily :> | Dec 18 17:40 |
| MinceR | also, the advantage of not being _paid_ to believe said bullshit | Dec 18 17:41 |
| MinceR | (there was a quote about that recently) | Dec 18 17:41 |
| Adus | MinceR: Forecasts based on vast amounts of data show that Windows will not suddenly get dropped by users | Dec 18 17:42 |
| Adus | and will continue to have majority market share on desktops | Dec 18 17:42 |
| Adus | Forecasts by people who know far more about the market than you or I | Dec 18 17:42 |
| MinceR | forged to convince stakeholders not to sell like crazy | Dec 18 17:43 |
| MinceR | let's not forget that part | Dec 18 17:43 |
| MinceR | with statistics, one can prove anything | Dec 18 17:43 |
| MinceR | "prove" | Dec 18 17:44 |
| Adus | Hahahahaha, you are so blinkered. You accuse me of only seeing what I want to, these are strong figures from independent companies. | Dec 18 17:44 |
| MinceR | also, let's not forget their deal with the Gangster Group and other "independent" consultants. | Dec 18 17:44 |
| MinceR | yeah, i know all about m$'s idea of "independent" | Dec 18 17:44 |
| Adus | MinceR: You're full of total and utter rubbish and conspiracy theories. | Dec 18 17:44 |
| MinceR | including their TCO lies from Gangster Group with m$ copyrights left on the report by mistake. | Dec 18 17:44 |
| MinceR | Adus: you're full of shit and m$ brainwashing. | Dec 18 17:45 |
| MinceR | (somehow those reports weren't confirmed by truly independent studies) | Dec 18 17:45 |
| Adus | MinceR: You are in a tiny minority who think Microsoft are under any risk because the fact is, they aren't. | Dec 18 17:45 |
| MinceR | keep telling yourself that. | Dec 18 17:45 |
| MinceR | meanwhile we'll keep laughing at ballmer being so furious he throws chairs around. | Dec 18 17:46 |
| MinceR | as long as m$ can afford to keep any chairs around, that is. | Dec 18 17:46 |
| Adus | We'll see. But MS will still be here in 10 years and you'll still hate them :) | Dec 18 17:46 |
| MinceR | i'll hate them even after they're gone. | Dec 18 17:46 |
| Adus | Yes, because another company won't swoop in and take their place... | Dec 18 17:47 |
| MinceR | it won't be so easy now | Dec 18 17:47 |
| MinceR | there are many players on the market already | Dec 18 17:47 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #European #Commission Plans to Allow #Patent Imperialism, Authorises Microsoft’s Attack on #FreeSoftware http://ur1.ca/i5sx | Dec 18 17:47 | |
| Adus | I suppose you think music should be free as well? :p | Dec 18 17:47 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: European Commission Plans to Allow Patent Imperialism, Authorises Microsofts Attack on Free Software | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 108.51 KB | Dec 18 17:47 |
| MinceR | and FLOSS isn't as easy to oppress with m$-ish tactics. | Dec 18 17:47 |
| MinceR | a lot of the music i care about has always been free. | Dec 18 17:47 |
| MinceR | (demoscene music, for example.) | Dec 18 17:47 |
| MinceR | (but as someone supposedly working for a game developer company, you should be aware of that.) | Dec 18 17:48 |
| Adus | You know a lot of people in the demoscene go on to come and work for us? :p | Dec 18 17:48 |
| MinceR | i do | Dec 18 17:48 |
| Adus | Several of our rendering guys are into the demoscene | Dec 18 17:48 |
| MinceR | and yet somehow not all of those people have this obsession with profit at all costs. | Dec 18 17:48 |
| Adus | I'm a network/server programmer MinceR | Dec 18 17:48 |
| Adus | I jsut work in the games indsutry. | Dec 18 17:48 |
| MinceR | i didn't say you developed games. | Dec 18 17:49 |
| MinceR | i said you worked for a game developer company. | Dec 18 17:49 |
| Adus | I write the network libraries and server side stuff our teams use to create games :) | Dec 18 17:49 |
| cubezzz | MinceR is so hard core :) | Dec 18 17:49 |
| *Diablo-D3 has quit ("do coders dream of sheep()?") | Dec 18 17:49 | |
| MinceR | btw, who do you think could swoop in and fill m$'s role? | Dec 18 17:50 |
| Adus | I think Google or Apple would given the chance and be just as bad. | Dec 18 17:51 |
| cubezzz | yeah, I agree with you there | Dec 18 17:51 |
| MinceR | crApple is incapable of serving business customers beyond the role of desk ornaments. | Dec 18 17:51 |
| cubezzz | I'd be happy just to see Microsoft deduced to 1/3 of the market | Dec 18 17:52 |
| MinceR | and google would have to change quite a bit to emply such hardball tactics. | Dec 18 17:52 |
| Ender2070 | Google will kill Microsoft | Dec 18 17:52 |
| Adus | I mistrust Google especially. They have an awful lot of power and more data on people than most governments. | Dec 18 17:52 |
| MinceR | i think if m$ goes down to 1/3 of the desktop OS market, their decline will not be stopped or slowed by anything. | Dec 18 17:52 |
| Ender2070 | I look forward to that day | Dec 18 17:52 |
| MinceR | i distrust google too, but they don't seem to be a player on the desktop OS scene. | Dec 18 17:52 |
| MinceR | only in services. | Dec 18 17:52 |
| Adus | ChromeOS is meant to change that... | Dec 18 17:53 |
| MinceR | i doubt it can | Dec 18 17:53 |
| cubezzz | well, let's see what happens | Dec 18 17:53 |
| Adus | I don't buy the whole cloud thing quite yet, even as a network programmer. | Dec 18 17:53 |
| MinceR | it's just a stripped -down GNU/Linux distro. | Dec 18 17:53 |
| Adus | But Google seem to think it has potential. | Dec 18 17:53 |
| MinceR | s/ -/-/ | Dec 18 17:53 |
| Ender2070 | ARM Netbooks with ChromeOS will pwn ARM Netbooks with WinCE | Dec 18 17:53 |
| cubezzz | I hear pcbsd is nice :) | Dec 18 17:53 |
| MinceR | yes, but potential for what? | Dec 18 17:53 |
| cubezzz | for great justice? :) | Dec 18 17:54 |
| Adus | Windows Mobile 7 is actually pretty awesome. One of my best friends is lead rendering programmer on that project. | Dec 18 17:54 |
| MinceR | it could even stop at being a device in convincing typical users that the desktop isn't all about winblows. | Dec 18 17:54 |
| MinceR | windows mobile is retarded crap | Dec 18 17:54 |
| *cubezzz launches every Zig | Dec 18 17:54 | |
| MinceR | they can't even get alarms to work reliably | Dec 18 17:54 |
| Adus | I said Windows Mobile 7, not Windows Mobile | Dec 18 17:54 |
| MinceR | and they can't handle DST or timezones either | Dec 18 17:54 |
| Ender2070 | windows mobile is a joke these days | Dec 18 17:54 |
| MinceR | it's a joke | Dec 18 17:54 |
| MinceR | it has always been a joke | Dec 18 17:54 |
| Ender2070 | rim and apple are handing it its ass | Dec 18 17:55 |
| MinceR | not just rim and crApple | Dec 18 17:55 |
| MinceR | also Symbian, Google and others. | Dec 18 17:55 |
| Adus | I have an Android Phone | Dec 18 17:55 |
| cubezzz | whatever, closed source OSes should be avoided anyway | Dec 18 17:55 |
| Ender2070 | Symbian, Google and others need to catch up to the installed base | Dec 18 17:55 |
| MinceR | i don't like android, but for some users it might well beat winblows mobile. | Dec 18 17:55 |
| Ender2070 | but they are superior | Dec 18 17:55 |
| Adus | Samsung i7500 | Dec 18 17:55 |
| Adus | I like it a lot. | Dec 18 17:55 |
| Ender2070 | I want an HTC Hero | Dec 18 17:56 |
| Adus | I've always bought Samsung phones though. | Dec 18 17:56 |
| MinceR | android probably handles alarms reliably, and that's a great advantage over winmob. :> | Dec 18 17:56 |
| Adus | I like their moviles. | Dec 18 17:56 |
| cubezzz | how about Palm Pre? | Dec 18 17:56 |
| MinceR | i think i'll get a Nokia N97 | Dec 18 17:56 |
| MinceR | the Pre is also in the game, but it spies on its users so i don't want one. | Dec 18 17:56 |
| MinceR | i wish the Nokia N900 supported headset adaptors. | Dec 18 17:56 |
| Adus | I don't think the Pre is in the game. or Symbian. | Dec 18 17:56 |
| Adus | rim, Android and Apple will have it. | Dec 18 17:57 |
| Ender2070 | MinceR - the iphone could be doing the same,but its closed so you'll never know | Dec 18 17:57 |
| MinceR | Nokia and Sony-Ericsson disagree. | Dec 18 17:57 |
| Adus | Nokia have announced plans to retire symbian | Dec 18 17:57 |
| MinceR | Ender2070: the hypePhone is just a featurephone | Dec 18 17:57 |
| MinceR | and in some way it's lesser than j2me phones. | Dec 18 17:57 |
| MinceR | strange, the plans i've heard were of open-sourcing Symbian | Dec 18 17:57 |
| MinceR | not retiring it | Dec 18 17:57 |
| Ender2070 | i thought they were moving to maemo | Dec 18 17:58 |
| MinceR | they seem to want to sustain both | Dec 18 17:58 |
| MinceR | somehow | Dec 18 17:58 |
| Adus | They only intend to use Symbian on midrange phones from 2011 onwards | Dec 18 17:58 |
| Adus | They want to replace it with somethine else, maybe it's maemo. Can't remember. | Dec 18 17:58 |
| Adus | on the higher end phones initially. | Dec 18 17:58 |
| MinceR | if they want to replace it with something, Maemo is by far the most likely candidate. | Dec 18 17:59 |
| MinceR | they don't really seem to have any other mobile OS, after all. :> | Dec 18 17:59 |
| Adus | I can't remember what it was now. i read about it on The Register a couple of months ago | Dec 18 17:59 |
| Ender2070 | the n900 is a good example | Dec 18 18:00 |
| Ender2070 | internet tablet/phone, maemo | Dec 18 18:00 |
| Adus | I dislike the iPhone. I much prefer the Android handsets. | Dec 18 18:00 |
| MinceR | besides compatibility with headset adaptors, the N900 could have also used the digital compass. | Dec 18 18:01 |
| Ender2070 | I like android stuff too | Dec 18 18:01 |
| MinceR | i dislike android | Dec 18 18:01 |
| MinceR | it locks developers into java apis | Dec 18 18:02 |
| MinceR | and the android market apps are killswitched | Dec 18 18:02 |
| Adus | yes, and the iPhone is ultra open... :p | Dec 18 18:02 |
| Ender2070 | lol I remember hearing there was this one app that used to camera to scan barcodes, and it would tell you where you could buy it cheaper | Dec 18 18:02 |
| MinceR | also, see the drama about the google branded apps | Dec 18 18:02 |
| Adus | Ender2070: Yeh, it's awesome. | Dec 18 18:02 |
| MinceR | i don't care about the hypePhone, it's total crap | Dec 18 18:02 |
| Ender2070 | MinceR - java will be free software soon | Dec 18 18:02 |
| MinceR | like i said, the hypePhone isn't even in the smartphone and pda/phone categories. | Dec 18 18:03 |
| Adus | There's also this awesome app that you hold your phone to the sky, and it shows you what would be there at night, or if there were no clouds or light pollution etc | Dec 18 18:03 |
| Adus | or point it at the floor and see the night sky on the other side of the world etc | Dec 18 18:03 |
| MinceR | Ender2070: it's still the VM that's tailored to the needs of one particular language | Dec 18 18:03 |
| Adus | really cool | Dec 18 18:03 |
| MinceR | Ender2070: and it still isn't native code | Dec 18 18:03 |
| Ender2070 | hmm | Dec 18 18:03 |
| Adus | Is running native code on a phone such a great idea? | Dec 18 18:03 |
| MinceR | also, it still has some issues, even though android probably avoids two of the most serious ones. | Dec 18 18:04 |
| MinceR | Adus: certainly. | Dec 18 18:04 |
| Adus | Unless it's running a hypervisor I guess. | Dec 18 18:04 |
| Adus | in a* | Dec 18 18:04 |
| MinceR | Adus: memory protection and a proper OS should be sufficient. | Dec 18 18:04 |
| MinceR | modern ARMs have MMUs, afaik | Dec 18 18:04 |
| Adus | MinceR: It never is though. | Dec 18 18:04 |
| MinceR | neither is anything else | Dec 18 18:04 |
| Adus | Someone will always find an exploit, because people are irritating... | Dec 18 18:04 |
| MinceR | hypervisor exploits and VM exploits might also exist | Dec 18 18:05 |
| Adus | Yes, but they are less likely. | Dec 18 18:05 |
| MinceR | if you're worried by the possibility of an exploit, don't use any computing devices. | Dec 18 18:05 |
| Ender2070 | lol | Dec 18 18:05 |
| Adus | You can never eliminate the possibility, but just running unsigned applications on a handheld device is crazy imho | Dec 18 18:05 |
| MinceR | not if you have a sane OS. | Dec 18 18:05 |
| MinceR | that is, not windows. | Dec 18 18:05 |
| MinceR | (actually there are other insane OSes too, like Palm OS 5) | Dec 18 18:06 |
| Adus | MinceR: Every OS has exploits. I would never claim windows is more secure than another OS, or even that it's not less secure. But the fact is, it doesn't matter what you're running | Dec 18 18:06 |
| Adus | some bastard, somewhere | Dec 18 18:06 |
| Adus | will find a way to exploit it | Dec 18 18:06 |
| MinceR | Adus: like i said, so does every VM and hypervisor. | Dec 18 18:06 |
| Adus | The best defense is not to run shit you don't trust | Dec 18 18:06 |
| Adus | I've never had a virus on Windows. Not because it's secure | Dec 18 18:06 |
| MinceR | that's no reason to throw performance and memory out of the window. | Dec 18 18:06 |
| Adus | but because I'm not an idiot | Dec 18 18:06 |
| Adus | :p | Dec 18 18:06 |
| Ender2070 | +1 | Dec 18 18:06 |
| Ender2070 | I used to be in PC repair | Dec 18 18:07 |
| Ender2070 | thats so true | Dec 18 18:07 |
| Adus | Anyway | Dec 18 18:07 |
| Adus | pub | Dec 18 18:07 |
| Adus | See ya! :D | Dec 18 18:07 |
| MinceR | don't mind if i don't :> | Dec 18 18:07 |
| MinceR | or you don't. | Dec 18 18:07 |
| MinceR | whatever. | Dec 18 18:07 |
| MinceR | time to go home for me. :> | Dec 18 18:07 |
| Ender2070 | you just have to laugh when someone buys a new computer and claims its defective when it starts acting retarded | Dec 18 18:08 |
| Ender2070 | only to find out thats because it already has a thousand viruses | Dec 18 18:08 |
| *Adus has quit () | Dec 18 18:09 | |
| *zer0c00l (n=user@117.199.140.188) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 18:09 | |
| Ender2070 | they are skeptical that it was due to viruses, then you show them their IE history log and educate them in the use of Windows Update | Dec 18 18:09 |
| Ender2070 | no updates + IE + porn = infection | Dec 18 18:10 |
| cubezzz | well, I give them a choice of Linux or reload of windows | Dec 18 18:11 |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Dec 18 18:12 | |
| Ender2070 | you think I never offered? | Dec 18 18:13 |
| Ender2070 | me? | Dec 18 18:13 |
| Ender2070 | LOL | Dec 18 18:13 |
| Ender2070 | the place I worked at, most people were assembling their own custom computers for games | Dec 18 18:14 |
| cubezzz | so do they ever ask for Linux? | Dec 18 18:14 |
| Ender2070 | i probably had maybe 5 people in 3 years ask | Dec 18 18:14 |
| Ender2070 | I gave them ubuntu disks | Dec 18 18:15 |
| Ender2070 | i ordered boxes and gave them away | Dec 18 18:15 |
| Ender2070 | the livecd helps because they can try it without messing up anything | Dec 18 18:15 |
| cubezzz | it's difficult to get non programmers to consider not microsoft | Dec 18 18:15 |
| cubezzz | yeah | Dec 18 18:16 |
| cubezzz | actually my last 4 laptop customers were all duo boot | Dec 18 18:16 |
| Ender2070 | most of the linux people who came in didnt need to ask though | Dec 18 18:16 |
| Ender2070 | we had people building servers and stuff too | Dec 18 18:16 |
| Ender2070 | I had my own fedora box at work | Dec 18 18:16 |
| cubezzz | same here | Dec 18 18:17 |
| *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp118-210-249-193.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 18:20 | |
| *pentarex (n=pentarex@82-170-54-237.ip.telfort.nl) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 18:20 | |
| Ender2070 | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/17/dot_net_noughties/page2.html | Dec 18 18:35 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Ten years of .NET - Did Microsoft deliver? • The Register .::. Size~: 27.03 KB | Dec 18 18:35 |
| trmanco | .NET NUKE | Dec 18 18:35 |
| Ender2070 | you know who else used .NET | Dec 18 18:36 |
| Ender2070 | THE DEVIL | Dec 18 18:36 |
| trmanco | LOL | Dec 18 18:40 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft -Funded Press Belittles Microsoft #Crimes http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/18/microsoft-press-defends-crime/ | Dec 18 18:47 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft-Funded Press Belittles Microsoft Crimes | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 110.85 KB | Dec 18 18:47 |
| *zer0c00l has quit ("later") | Dec 18 19:12 | |
| *MinceR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Dec 18 19:13 | |
| *MinceR (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 19:17 | |
| *gargoyle-grin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Dec 18 19:19 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] “ #GPL is Scary!! Please Buy Our Products” http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/18/pulling-a-geritol-on-gpl/ | Dec 18 19:19 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: “GPL is Scary!! Please Buy Our Products” | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 102.88 KB | Dec 18 19:19 |
| *MinceR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Dec 18 19:19 | |
| *gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 19:22 | |
| *MinceR (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 19:23 | |
| *MinceR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Dec 18 19:24 | |
| schestowitz | [17:44] <MinceR> also, let's not forget their deal with the Gangster Group and other "independent" consultants. | Dec 18 19:25 |
| Ender2070 | http://www.pwnage.ca/?p=501 | Dec 18 19:25 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. | Dec 18 19:25 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Pwnage.ca » Corporate Funding FSF vs GNOME .::. Size~: 23.3 KB | Dec 18 19:25 |
| Ender2070 | bam | Dec 18 19:25 |
| schestowitz | They spend a lot making people believe them | Dec 18 19:25 |
| trmanco | lol | Dec 18 19:25 |
| schestowitz | They even run after journos and bully them | Dec 18 19:25 |
| schestowitz | To control what people think | Dec 18 19:25 |
| trmanco | he should change his server to the european side | Dec 18 19:25 |
| trmanco | :S | Dec 18 19:26 |
| *MinceR (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 19:26 | |
| trmanco | the server is eurpean :| | Dec 18 19:26 |
| trmanco | is online via kornbluth.freenode.net (Frankfurt, DE, EU). | Dec 18 19:27 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft employee could hang out in all sort of fosums... | Dec 18 19:28 |
| schestowitz | On games... | Dec 18 19:28 |
| schestowitz | On .NET... | Dec 18 19:28 |
| schestowitz | On butterfly | Dec 18 19:28 |
| schestowitz | Yet they are attracted to BN like moth to a light... | Dec 18 19:29 |
| schestowitz | The Microsoft evangelists link to it with disdain. | Dec 18 19:29 |
| schestowitz | BN gives them attention they do not want | Dec 18 19:29 |
| schestowitz | This video was made by a rookie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dadPWhEhVk&feature=player_embedded# | Dec 18 19:38 |
| Ender2070 | I wrote a new article comparing what funding gets you in both organizations | Dec 18 19:43 |
| schestowitz | I already have it queued for posting later | Dec 18 19:48 |
| schestowitz | I also mentioned the lobby analogy this morning | Dec 18 19:48 |
| *Will__ (i=453b6936@gateway/web/freenode/x-eqjoghdstnhkqgar) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 19:53 | |
| Will__ | http://games.slashdot.org/story/09/12/18/1649253/Microsoft-Seeks-Patent-On-Shaming-Fat-Gamers?art_pos=1 | Dec 18 19:54 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Slashdot Games Story | Microsoft Seeks Patent On Shaming Fat Gamers .::. Size~: 94.65 KB | Dec 18 19:54 |
| MinceR | 193024 < Ender2070> you know who else used .NET | Dec 18 19:54 |
| MinceR | hitler! | Dec 18 19:54 |
| *Will__ has quit (Client Quit) | Dec 18 19:57 | |
| Ender2070 | LOL | Dec 18 20:02 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[mray/@mray] @boycottnovell : it is no fun to read articles on that theme and with those low quality cropped images. looking forward to a new design :P | Dec 18 20:04 | |
| *wallc_ (i=44e6566b@gateway/web/freenode/x-sokdlstsbeurldql) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 20:08 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/12/18/redhat_rhel6_itanium_dead/ | Dec 18 20:10 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Red Hat pulls plug on Itanium with RHEL 6 • Channel Register .::. Size~: 24.92 KB | Dec 18 20:10 |
| schestowitz | WHy does Microsoft want a patent that shames its CEO? | Dec 18 20:11 |
| schestowitz | The crane nearby has xmas lights on it...... that's nice. | Dec 18 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Is this an empty page just here? http://stagetimemag.com/standup/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/soft/linux-software.php | Dec 18 20:14 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: LINUX SOFTWARE - BEST CHEAP SOFTWARE .::. Size~: 1.86 KB | Dec 18 20:14 |
| Ender2070 | itanium is pretty much dead | Dec 18 20:21 |
| MinceR | maybe they hope some particularly fascist government makes using that patent mandatory to use in the current MMO hysteria and they want to cash in on it | Dec 18 20:22 |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Dec 18 20:24 | |
| *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp118-210-249-193.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 20:25 | |
| schestowitz | http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/marketwire/0570024.htm | Dec 18 20:37 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Alentus Corporation Announces Debt Restructuring .::. Size~: 38.72 KB | Dec 18 20:37 |
| schestowitz | Ender2070: the bribd 'analysts' said itanium would be a hit | Dec 18 20:38 |
| schestowitz | it was Gangster Group, IIRC | Dec 18 20:38 |
| *Ender2070_ (n=Ender207@bas1-toronto12-1128666469.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 20:39 | |
| schestowitz | Any patents involved in this http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/asus-selects-paragon-software-for,1095760.shtml ? | Dec 18 20:39 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: ASUS Selects Paragon Software for End-to-End Linux-Based Solutions to Access Windows Formatted Hard Drives .::. Size~: 57.15 KB | Dec 18 20:39 |
| schestowitz | Can anybody check? | Dec 18 20:39 |
| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&c2coff=1&ei=OecrS5iBNZGG4Qbeo4WRCQ&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&ved=0CAYQBSgA&q=Paragon+microsoft+patent&spell=1 | Dec 18 20:40 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Paragon microsoft patent - Google Search .::. Size~: 25.69 KB | Dec 18 20:40 |
| *Ender2070__ (n=Ender207@bas1-toronto12-1128666469.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 20:41 | |
| schestowitz | Don't spill coffee on this keyboard... http://www.slashgear.com/norhtec-gecko-surfboard-99-linux-pc-in-a-keyboard-1766281/ | Dec 18 20:41 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: NorhTec Gecko Surfboard: $99 Linux PC in a keyboard - SlashGear .::. Size~: 52.14 KB | Dec 18 20:41 |
| MinceR | itanium could have been a hit if intel didn't kill it by marketing it as server-only | Dec 18 20:42 |
| _goblin | Adus gone? | Dec 18 20:42 |
| MinceR | yes | Dec 18 20:42 |
| _goblin | ah... | Dec 18 20:43 |
| _goblin | he seemed quite a reasonable chap | Dec 18 20:43 |
| MinceR | not to me | Dec 18 20:43 |
| _goblin | ah.... | Dec 18 20:43 |
| _goblin | didnt see that conversation, been away for a while | Dec 18 20:43 |
| MinceR | he seemed like someone who believed everything his overlords told him in a brainwashing session | Dec 18 20:43 |
| _goblin | you can't blame him... | Dec 18 20:43 |
| _goblin | its his job.... | Dec 18 20:43 |
| _goblin | i suppose | Dec 18 20:44 |
| schestowitz | Hmmmmmmm....... http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=16011&news=Google+Chrome+OS+Netbook | Dec 18 20:44 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Google Is Going to Release Its Own Chrome-based Netbook .::. Size~: 47.21 KB | Dec 18 20:44 |
| schestowitz | It's like Google will use Linux as a proprietary OS on its _OWN_ syatem | Dec 18 20:44 |
| schestowitz | *system | Dec 18 20:44 |
| schestowitz | I don't like the sound of it so much | Dec 18 20:44 |
| _goblin | I think that was inevitable. | Dec 18 20:44 |
| _goblin | theres nothing in it for Google otherwise. | Dec 18 20:44 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: I agree with _goblin, they are just like that | Dec 18 20:45 |
| schestowitz | I heard stories... they are generally deluded to keep morale up | Dec 18 20:45 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: but hardware.. | Dec 18 20:45 |
| schestowitz | . | Dec 18 20:45 |
| _goblin | I think it was a massive request to ask Netbook manufacturers to have a leap of faith and go with Google.... | Dec 18 20:45 |
| schestowitz | THey sold appliances before... for enterprise search | Dec 18 20:45 |
| schestowitz | Netbook from Google will always be in "Beta" | Dec 18 20:46 |
| schestowitz | Which means exploding batteries and stuff | Dec 18 20:46 |
| MinceR | if it's his job then he's no better than any other cultist | Dec 18 20:46 |
| schestowitz | Though they'll just rebadge some other company's | Dec 18 20:46 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: one's man cult is another man's job | Dec 18 20:46 |
| schestowitz | *man's | Dec 18 20:47 |
| _goblin | MinceR: I must admit I would have to tow the line if my employers were known...infact I do it all the time....and my company has had alot worse thrown at it than Microsoft. | Dec 18 20:47 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: some jobs are actually useful | Dec 18 20:47 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: yes, but they are in Asia | Dec 18 20:47 |
| MinceR | not all of them | Dec 18 20:47 |
| schestowitz | Higher proportion | Dec 18 20:47 |
| *Ender2070 has quit (Nick collision from services.) | Dec 18 20:47 | |
| *Ender2070__ is now known as ender2070 | Dec 18 20:47 | |
| schestowitz | Farming (rice), manufacturing, etc. | Dec 18 20:47 |
| MinceR | _goblin: i wouldn't pretend that it's good, not to myself and not to anyone else | Dec 18 20:48 |
| schestowitz | They export to the West, which then just sits in A/Ced offices and does market~1 market~1 market~1 | Dec 18 20:48 |
| _goblin | it sometimes helps.... | Dec 18 20:48 |
| _goblin | maybe not so much in the case of MS, but in some of the work Ive done it helps to just go with the flow..... | Dec 18 20:48 |
| MinceR | _goblin: the only thing lying to yourself can help is morale, and i don't think that's worth it | Dec 18 20:49 |
| schestowitz | In China they fight over whose workers and what factory is overworked | Dec 18 20:49 |
| schestowitz | In the West they fight with flyers and stuff | Dec 18 20:49 |
| _goblin | MinceR: You may be right in the case of companies such as MS. | Dec 18 20:49 |
| _goblin | MinceR: but at least they are relatively harmless. | Dec 18 20:49 |
| MinceR | who are? | Dec 18 20:49 |
| schestowitz | Lions | Dec 18 20:49 |
| schestowitz | Heads | Dec 18 20:49 |
| _goblin | MinceR: Microsoft... | Dec 18 20:49 |
| MinceR | hardly | Dec 18 20:50 |
| _goblin | *sorry, let me explain. | Dec 18 20:50 |
| _goblin | went off a bit there. | Dec 18 20:50 |
| MinceR | m$ is trying hard to destroy the technology that is driving pretty much all high technology and scientific research | Dec 18 20:50 |
| MinceR | and they've been at it for decades | Dec 18 20:50 |
| MinceR | this is not excusable | Dec 18 20:50 |
| _goblin | I say Microsoft is harmless because at the end of the day they are a software firm whose crimes don't involve the suffering of others (mostly)...Im talking about serious harm, not simply joblessness or stiffling innovation. | Dec 18 20:51 |
| _goblin | and Im comparing it to some of the places I have worked....Microsoft is a moot point. | Dec 18 20:51 |
| MinceR | just wait until it gets put into a life support device | Dec 18 20:51 |
| MinceR | or until someone tries to make an urgent emergency call from a winmob phone | Dec 18 20:51 |
| _goblin | true....but thats not intentional harm. | Dec 18 20:51 |
| _goblin | theres a difference. | Dec 18 20:52 |
| MinceR | or someone is driven to nervous breakdown or suicide by a life's worth of suffering inflicted through using m$ products | Dec 18 20:52 |
| _goblin | Im sure MS would love their products to be brilliant and everyone to love their products. | Dec 18 20:52 |
| MinceR | this is very intentional, actually | Dec 18 20:52 |
| MinceR | they had every intent to deliver as shoddy products as possible in as great volume as possible | Dec 18 20:52 |
| MinceR | they were willing to lie, cheat and bribe in order to make it happen | Dec 18 20:53 |
| _goblin | MinceR: Its all a matter of perception...since I am not comparing it to "normal" jobs. | Dec 18 20:53 |
| MinceR | iirc they did mention trying to get winblows into life support machines | Dec 18 20:53 |
| MinceR | and being oh-so-confident about its reliability | Dec 18 20:53 |
| _goblin | Adus, in his own way is just making things work....I'd be very suspicious if he came here and agreed.......theres some honesty in Adus's view if you look at it that way. | Dec 18 20:54 |
| MinceR | not really | Dec 18 20:54 |
| MinceR | he could have claimed that he only cares about Lionhead, not m$ | Dec 18 20:54 |
| MinceR | and if my employer forced me to lie in situations like this, i'd probably quit | Dec 18 20:55 |
| _goblin | Well if the point is that he follows his "masters" and he did nothing to eleviate that...(and he could of) then really he is being true to form. I think his opinion will be genuine held belief, whatever the basis for that belief. | Dec 18 20:55 |
| MinceR | i think he's genuinely brainwashed | Dec 18 20:55 |
| *Ender2070_ has quit (Success) | Dec 18 20:55 | |
| _goblin | or genuinely trying to make a living. | Dec 18 20:56 |
| _goblin | like I say, who can blame him. | Dec 18 20:56 |
| schestowitz | Not the same | Dec 18 20:56 |
| _goblin | what, keeping his job? | Dec 18 20:56 |
| schestowitz | making a living does not require being stupid | Dec 18 20:56 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ender2070] Corporate Funding FSF vs GNOME http://bit.ly/5wz5us | Dec 18 20:56 | |
| _goblin | really? | Dec 18 20:56 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Pwnage.ca » Corporate Funding FSF vs GNOME .::. Size~: 23.3 KB | Dec 18 20:56 |
| MinceR | there are honest ways of making a living | Dec 18 20:56 |
| MinceR | like working for an honest software company | Dec 18 20:56 |
| MinceR | he claimed there were lots of job offers | Dec 18 20:56 |
| _goblin | Mincer: Agreed, but is the answer that simple? (I wouldn't know since Im not in that sector) | Dec 18 20:57 |
| schestowitz | Work for Mark... http://blogs.computerworld.com/15278/where_does_ubuntu_go_from_here | Dec 18 20:57 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Where does Ubuntu go from here? - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 127.45 KB | Dec 18 20:57 |
| schestowitz | Issue is, Canonical hired from Microsoft | Dec 18 20:57 |
| schestowitz | Turned out to be a mess | Dec 18 20:57 |
| schestowitz | YMMV | Dec 18 20:57 |
| _goblin | "making a living does not require being stupid" - I would disagree there completely.....Ive done some incredibly stupid things in my time, was merely lucky. | Dec 18 20:59 |
| _goblin | and as a result of instructions from others. | Dec 18 20:59 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: I was joking | Dec 18 20:59 |
| _goblin | ah | Dec 18 20:59 |
| schestowitz | I was bantering there with MinceR | Dec 18 20:59 |
| _goblin | ;) | Dec 18 21:00 |
| MinceR | some jobs require being stupid, that's known | Dec 18 21:00 |
| _goblin | you forget Roy....Im slower.... | Dec 18 21:00 |
| schestowitz | No | Dec 18 21:00 |
| schestowitz | Apathetic | Dec 18 21:00 |
| schestowitz | Or silent | Dec 18 21:00 |
| MinceR | but there are jobs for less stupid people, too | Dec 18 21:00 |
| schestowitz | What's why we still have idiots join armies | Dec 18 21:00 |
| _goblin | .... | Dec 18 21:01 |
| schestowitz | They like being told what to do | Dec 18 21:01 |
| schestowitz | _goblin will slap me, I know.. | Dec 18 21:01 |
| _goblin | Roy.......... | Dec 18 21:01 |
| _goblin | lol | Dec 18 21:01 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: do you favour the nuclear programmes? | Dec 18 21:01 |
| _goblin | no. | Dec 18 21:01 |
| _goblin | MAD. | Dec 18 21:01 |
| _goblin | Mutual Assured Destruction. | Dec 18 21:01 |
| schestowitz | Magazine | Dec 18 21:01 |
| MinceR | i think police gets even stupider people | Dec 18 21:01 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: it's run by computers now | Dec 18 21:01 |
| schestowitz | I.e. Just AS | Dec 18 21:02 |
| schestowitz | Assured destruction | Dec 18 21:02 |
| MinceR | MAD Magazine rules | Dec 18 21:02 |
| schestowitz | The question is when | Dec 18 21:02 |
| schestowitz | It almost happened in 1995 | Dec 18 21:02 |
| _goblin | but the M comes from nations...."You fire yours we fire ours...its mutual" | Dec 18 21:02 |
| schestowitz | A missile over Norway was mistaken by Russian observatories | Dec 18 21:02 |
| schestowitz | They almost launched a payload of nukes | Dec 18 21:02 |
| schestowitz | There's a 10-minute gap for human intervention | Dec 18 21:02 |
| schestowitz | They stopped it after 8 minutes due to false alarm | Dec 18 21:03 |
| MinceR | the idea of a "nation" is a fraud invented to turn people against each other | Dec 18 21:03 |
| schestowitz | THeir systems are rustry... Obama should fund a replacement for them :-) | Dec 18 21:03 |
| schestowitz | Call it...... "US-MAD System" | Dec 18 21:03 |
| MinceR | the WE-ARE-MAD System? | Dec 18 21:04 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: if not states, then clannish parts | Dec 18 21:04 |
| schestowitz | States are formal enclosures | Dec 18 21:04 |
| schestowitz | You still have classes, ethinicity, sexes, etc. | Dec 18 21:04 |
| _goblin | its not the nuclear though people need to worry about.... | Dec 18 21:04 |
| schestowitz | SO there will always be a divided population | Dec 18 21:04 |
| _goblin | IMO its the chemical. | Dec 18 21:04 |
| schestowitz | It's human nature, like monkeys and packs of wolves | Dec 18 21:04 |
| schestowitz | Nations can also be divided | Dec 18 21:04 |
| _goblin | theres been some "advancements" in the field of science that makes people suffer by design.....designer suffering. | Dec 18 21:04 |
| schestowitz | South/Nokia Korea... | Dec 18 21:04 |
| schestowitz | Czechoslovakia | Dec 18 21:05 |
| trmanco | http://www.joeydevilla.com/2009/12/16/how-fanboys-see-operating-systems/ | Dec 18 21:05 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: How Fanboys See Operating Systems — The Adventures of Accordion Guy in the 21st Century .::. Size~: 58.37 KB | Dec 18 21:05 |
| _goblin | having said that....I think its very easy for civvies to make judgements on war and the "following orders" when they have not been in theatre themselves...thats not an insult, merely like just how I couldn't appreciate how difficult it is to write an OS. | Dec 18 21:06 |
| _goblin | anyway... | Dec 18 21:08 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: it's funny but wrong | Dec 18 21:09 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is not gay, it's criminal | Dec 18 21:09 |
| _goblin | saw "The Wrestler" last night.....great stuff! | Dec 18 21:09 |
| schestowitz | WHat's it abut? | Dec 18 21:09 |
| _goblin | lol | Dec 18 21:09 |
| schestowitz | The fake 'wrestling'? | Dec 18 21:09 |
| schestowitz | Or Roman? | Dec 18 21:09 |
| _goblin | Ive got your number now Roy!!! ;) | Dec 18 21:09 |
| schestowitz | /Mine/? | Dec 18 21:10 |
| _goblin | as in I can tell when you are getting a reaction from me!!! Reeling me in!!! | Dec 18 21:10 |
| _goblin | did I say I am going to be hitting 100,000 readers either tonight or tomorrow? | Dec 18 21:11 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: did rush out for an ID card yet? | Dec 18 21:11 |
| _goblin | Ive already got one.... | Dec 18 21:11 |
| schestowitz | Here in Manchester they 'pioneer' this 'genius' innova~1 | Dec 18 21:11 |
| _goblin | of sorts | Dec 18 21:11 |
| _goblin | and my DNA is on a database. | Dec 18 21:12 |
| schestowitz | They don't need those, _goblin | Dec 18 21:12 |
| schestowitz | they already have junk like FB to spy on | Dec 18 21:12 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: but you're in law | Dec 18 21:12 |
| schestowitz | So it's not a basis for comparison | Dec 18 21:12 |
| _goblin | never said that. | Dec 18 21:12 |
| schestowitz | You favour police state, from my experience | Dec 18 21:12 |
| schestowitz | It doesn't always increase security | Dec 18 21:12 |
| _goblin | lol... | Dec 18 21:12 |
| schestowitz | It increase control | Dec 18 21:12 |
| schestowitz | Not the same as security | Dec 18 21:13 |
| schestowitz | Oversight not the same as security | Dec 18 21:13 |
| _goblin | We will have a decent conversation if we meet up in London. | Dec 18 21:13 |
| schestowitz | More CCTV->more security is like "more patents"->innovation | Dec 18 21:13 |
| _goblin | Roy, do you know about RIPR policy? Did you know in terms of covert surviellance the member of public have more power than Police? | Dec 18 21:14 |
| schestowitz | *LOL* " | Dec 18 21:14 |
| schestowitz | I LOVE U MICHAEL (L) YOU'LL ALWAYS BE MISSED xxx | Dec 18 21:14 |
| schestowitz | RIP MJ LOVE U ALWAYS I'M ALWAYS GONNA BE A TRUE FAN NO MATTER WHAT ! :) LOVE U XX | Dec 18 21:14 |
| schestowitz | " | Dec 18 21:14 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYFe-Wjp3Ws&NR=1 | Dec 18 21:14 |
| schestowitz | Andre?? | Dec 18 21:14 |
| _goblin | lol... | Dec 18 21:14 |
| trmanco | lol | Dec 18 21:14 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] down the pub with @nyecamden and tr. I just bought new domain names for my fake news site. it'll be fantastic. | Dec 18 21:14 | |
| _goblin | I think he was only sad that "Michael Jackson never lived to see Windows 7" | Dec 18 21:14 |
| *pentarex has quit ("Leaving") | Dec 18 21:14 | |
| schestowitz | Yeah.. | Dec 18 21:15 |
| schestowitz | Poor him... no more BSODs | Dec 18 21:15 |
| schestowitz | Not that he used PCs, either..... | Dec 18 21:15 |
| _goblin | I think it was someone here who said he was a Mac user. | Dec 18 21:15 |
| MinceR | too stupid for a PC? :> | Dec 18 21:15 |
| schestowitz | Tell Andre that "MJ" died cause he downloaded Vista 7 RC and was not compatible | Dec 18 21:15 |
| MinceR | lol | Dec 18 21:16 |
| _goblin | oh the LinXXX would love that. | Dec 18 21:16 |
| schestowitz | UAC trouble | Dec 18 21:16 |
| MinceR | MJ died of piracy? | Dec 18 21:16 |
| schestowitz | "Implant requires authorisation" [Cancel |Allow] | Dec 18 21:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] may i just say @nyecamden is way cute and nice and puts up with my loud shouty voice with great forbearance | Dec 18 21:16 | |
| schestowitz | He died from drugs, AFAIK | Dec 18 21:17 |
| schestowitz | Destructive lifestile | Dec 18 21:17 |
| schestowitz | *style | Dec 18 21:17 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EfyFm5L4ZY | Dec 18 21:17 |
| ender2070 | didn't his doctor mess up on his prescription? | Dec 18 21:17 |
| _goblin | thats what I thought. | Dec 18 21:17 |
| schestowitz | http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/marketwire/0570520.htm | Dec 18 21:17 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Cavium Networks Completes Acquisition of MontaVista Software .::. Size~: 40.17 KB | Dec 18 21:17 |
| schestowitz | "Cloud!!" | Dec 18 21:19 |
| schestowitz | "According to IDC’s latest and surprisingly nuanced analysis, while Windows won’t disappear in the next decade, it is on a downward path, eroded by a shift in the model towards mobility, to the cloud, both trends that kill the need for a complex ‘fat client’ like XP, Vista, 7, and for that matter, Apple’s OS X." | Dec 18 21:19 |
| schestowitz | "The Cloud!!" | Dec 18 21:19 |
| schestowitz | "The Cloud!!" | Dec 18 21:19 |
| schestowitz | http://blogs.techworld.com/war-on-error/2009/12/windows-decline-could-drag-others-down-too/ | Dec 18 21:19 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Windows' decline could drag others down too - War on Error - Blogs - Technology Blog and Community from IT Experts - Techworld.com .::. Size~: 75.39 KB | Dec 18 21:19 |
| _goblin | I remember when the thought of automatically connecting to the net when you switched your PC on was met with horror..... | Dec 18 21:20 |
| _goblin | and always on.......ahhhhh | Dec 18 21:20 |
| schestowitz | !google microsoft google owes us pcs | Dec 18 21:20 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Microsoft's Chief Strategy Officer: “Google Owes Its Business To Us” | http://searchengineland.com/microsofts-chief-strategy-officer-google-owes-its-business-to-us-13471 | Dec 18 21:20 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Turkey: Google Owes Us $42 Million - AppScout | http://www.appscout.com/2009/11/turkey_google_owes_us_42_milli.php | Dec 18 21:20 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Mundie: Google owes business to Microsoft | Business - InfoWorld | http://www.infoworld.com/t/business/mundie-google-owes-business-microsoft-749 | Dec 18 21:20 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Tech Rave: Apparently Google owes a lot of money | http://techraveblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/apparently-google-owes-lot-of-money.html | Dec 18 21:20 |
| _goblin | I still to this day switch off my router and turn off my PC when its not in use. | Dec 18 21:20 |
| schestowitz | http://www.i4u.com/article29365.html | Dec 18 21:22 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: NorhTec Geko Surfboard Will Be At CES 2010 .::. Size~: 26.55 KB | Dec 18 21:22 |
| schestowitz | Linux 33% cheaper | Dec 18 21:22 |
| MinceR | i suspend my laptops and turn off or hibernate my desktops when not in use | Dec 18 21:22 |
| schestowitz | Or Windows 50% more expensive | Dec 18 21:22 |
| _goblin | I want one of those Linux.com emails. | Dec 18 21:22 |
| MinceR | the home server and the router are obviously always in use | Dec 18 21:22 |
| MinceR | _goblin: iirc you can get one for a fee | Dec 18 21:23 |
| _goblin | yeah.... | Dec 18 21:23 |
| _goblin | im going to.... | Dec 18 21:23 |
| _goblin | bit pricey coming up to xmas for a FSF membership.... | Dec 18 21:23 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @mindspillage: http://ur1.ca/i617 requires several different types of dorkiness to be funny (TR says "it's not scientific!" but giggled) | Dec 18 21:23 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Whose Brahms? .::. Size~: 32.44 KB | Dec 18 21:23 |
| MinceR | isn't that an LF membership? | Dec 18 21:23 |
| _goblin | I thought you got one when joining FSF... | Dec 18 21:24 |
| _goblin | I'll check.... | Dec 18 21:24 |
| MinceR | afaik the LF owns linux.com | Dec 18 21:24 |
| MinceR | then again, FSF might have a deal with them | Dec 18 21:24 |
| schestowitz | Why use propietary s/w for FTP? http://www.serverwatch.com/sreviews/article.php/3854336/Getting-Started-With-CrushFTP.htm | Dec 18 21:25 |
| _goblin | yeah my mistake.... | Dec 18 21:25 |
| schestowitz | WHo would buy this stuff when konq and gftp already do it so splendidly and are gratus/libre? | Dec 18 21:25 |
| _goblin | "Show the world you support free software! Receive up to five email aliases in the member.fsf.org domain to forward to other addresses. (Email alias availability is not guaranteed; aliases are given out on a first-come-first-served basis.)" | Dec 18 21:25 |
| schestowitz |  | Dec 18 21:25 |
| schestowitz | [21:22] <_goblin> I want one of those Linux.com emails. | Dec 18 21:25 |
| _goblin | I'll still donate to FSF | Dec 18 21:25 |
| schestowitz | Bad idea | Dec 18 21:25 |
| schestowitz | You don't control your mail domain | Dec 18 21:25 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: don't get LF memebrship | Dec 18 21:26 |
| schestowitz | They already have enough money from corps | Dec 18 21:26 |
| schestowitz | I've always said that | Dec 18 21:26 |
| schestowitz | Support FSF instead | Dec 18 21:26 |
| _goblin | Im just seeing how much $120 is..... | Dec 18 21:27 |
| schestowitz | A lot less than it used to be | Dec 18 21:28 |
| schestowitz | Get one for Daniel | Dec 18 21:28 |
| schestowitz | mono-warrior@fsf.org | Dec 18 21:28 |
| schestowitz | http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/12/18/a-new-google-answers-site-on-the-way | Dec 18 21:29 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: A New Google Answers Site on the Way? | WebProNews .::. Size~: 31.94 KB | Dec 18 21:29 |
| _goblin | 0.6 to the pound....ish | Dec 18 21:29 |
| schestowitz | Google --- they think of EVERYTHING! *rolls eyes* | Dec 18 21:29 |
| _goblin | schestowitz: I like your idea! | Dec 18 21:30 |
| schestowitz | http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/12/18/twitter-gets-hacked-by-iranian-cyber-army | Dec 18 21:30 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Twitter Gets Hacked by "Iranian Cyber Army" | WebProNews .::. Size~: 33.19 KB | Dec 18 21:30 |
| cubezzz | mono warrior? :) | Dec 18 21:30 |
| MinceR | they think of everything when it comes to spying on you ;) | Dec 18 21:30 |
| *MinceR gets a monosword to kill the monowarrior | Dec 18 21:30 | |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: john ( _goblin) will show you the caption that explains why | Dec 18 21:30 |
| _goblin | lol... | Dec 18 21:31 |
| _goblin | hang fire.... | Dec 18 21:31 |
| schestowitz | James? | Dec 18 21:31 |
| schestowitz | Nigel? | Dec 18 21:31 |
| schestowitz | :-D | Dec 18 21:31 |
| _goblin | http://www.twitpic.com/l4q5a | Dec 18 21:32 |
| MinceR | Eugene? | Dec 18 21:32 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: My son in high spirits after removing MONO from his favorite ... on Twitpic .::. Size~: 8.57 KB | Dec 18 21:32 |
| MinceR | Tony? | Dec 18 21:32 |
| cubezzz | we're only making plans for Nigel? :) | Dec 18 21:32 |
| schestowitz | Yelp!! Yelp. http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/12/18/google-reportedly-considering-yelp-acquisition | Dec 18 21:32 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Google Reportedly Considering Yelp Acquisition | WebProNews .::. Size~: 31.94 KB | Dec 18 21:32 |
| MinceR | yelp, the gnome help browser? | Dec 18 21:32 |
| schestowitz | Google eats it....... yum | Dec 18 21:32 |
| MinceR | apt | Dec 18 21:32 |
| schestowitz | pacman | Dec 18 21:33 |
| MinceR | portage | Dec 18 21:33 |
| schestowitz | Doesn't work as a conversation | Dec 18 21:33 |
| MinceR | :) | Dec 18 21:33 |
| schestowitz | PiSi Pisi... | Dec 18 21:33 |
| *schestowitz smacks cat | Dec 18 21:33 | |
| MinceR | PC | Dec 18 21:34 |
| schestowitz | !google pardus pisi | Dec 18 21:34 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - PiSi - PardusWiki | http://en.pardus-wiki.org/PiSi | Dec 18 21:34 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Package Management – Pardus Package Manager: PISI | http://www.brighthub.com/computing/linux/articles/52774.aspx | Dec 18 21:34 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Pardus (operating system) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardus_(operating_system) | Dec 18 21:34 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Pardus TÜBİTAK/UEKAE | http://www.pardus.org.tr/eng/projects/pisi/index.html | Dec 18 21:34 |
| schestowitz | What does this run? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8419147.stm | Dec 18 21:34 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 85.84 KB | Dec 18 21:34 |
| MinceR | and what did the cat do? | Dec 18 21:34 |
| schestowitz | it crapped out | Dec 18 21:35 |
| schestowitz | With some error I can't figure out | Dec 18 21:35 |
| schestowitz | I tried cat error.log | Dec 18 21:35 |
| schestowitz | cat: error.log: No such file or directory | Dec 18 21:35 |
| schestowitz | roy@roy:~$ cat | man woman | Dec 18 21:36 |
| schestowitz | No manual entry for woman | Dec 18 21:36 |
| schestowitz | roy@roy:~$ cat | man cat | cat cat | Dec 18 21:37 |
| schestowitz | cat: cat: No such file or directory | Dec 18 21:37 |
| schestowitz | 'cat | man cat' acta weird | Dec 18 21:38 |
| schestowitz | AUTHOR | Dec 18 21:38 |
| schestowitz | Written by Torbjorn Granlund and Richard M. Stallman. | Dec 18 21:38 |
| schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8420431.stm | Dec 18 21:39 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 85.86 KB | Dec 18 21:39 |
| schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8420876.stm | Dec 18 21:39 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 85.85 KB | Dec 18 21:40 |
| schestowitz | Ballmer pats Sarko on the shoulder | Dec 18 21:40 |
| schestowitz | Why does he not go after the criminal bundler? | Dec 18 21:40 |
| MinceR | they're both criminals | Dec 18 21:40 |
| schestowitz | Twitter finally does something right: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8420233.stm | Dec 18 21:41 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 85.85 KB | Dec 18 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Twitter "owned by tw*ts" | Dec 18 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Via DNS | Dec 18 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Maybe they should have waited for Google to also make its own DNS s/w | Dec 18 21:41 |
| schestowitz | versus Bing | Dec 18 21:42 |
| schestowitz | Gind | Dec 18 21:42 |
| schestowitz | BIND | Dec 18 21:42 |
| schestowitz | I types "bing". Tikes. | Dec 18 21:42 |
| schestowitz | *ped | Dec 18 21:42 |
| schestowitz | *Yikes | Dec 18 21:42 |
| *schestowitz needs drink | Dec 18 21:42 | |
| amarsh04 | schestowitz, quote from #grub by one of the developers "EFI is all about anti-compatibility. It's the reason Apple picked it" | Dec 18 21:44 |
| schestowitz | I wish livers were the same | Dec 18 21:45 |
| schestowitz | That would show Apple | Dec 18 21:45 |
| amarsh04 | livers? | Dec 18 21:46 |
| schestowitz | Or was it kidney? | Dec 18 21:46 |
| schestowitz | Jobs is OK with compatible stuff when life is at stake | Dec 18 21:47 |
| schestowitz | http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windows/Microsoft-Refuses-Comment-on-Code-Vetting-After-Juku-Apology-352724/ | Dec 18 21:49 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft Refuses Comment on Code Vetting After Juku Apology - Windows from eWeek .::. Size~: 119.49 KB | Dec 18 21:49 |
| _goblin | of course.....why should they....when it happens next time they will want to claim ignorance. | Dec 18 21:51 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: http://opensource.cbronline.com/news/ingres_freesoft_bag_open_source_contract_from_hungarian_government_091209 | Dec 18 21:53 |
| MinceR | wow, it isn't novell | Dec 18 21:54 |
| schestowitz | Absurbisource | Dec 18 21:54 |
| schestowitz | http://brokenhut.livejournal.com/163857.html | Dec 18 21:55 |
| schestowitz | In Korea only old people use Novell | Dec 18 21:56 |
| MinceR | :) | Dec 18 21:56 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: brokenhut: In Korea only old people use mice .::. Size~: 20.77 KB | Dec 18 21:56 |
| MinceR | also, apparently they've managed to buy into FLOSS despite all the "open standards" talk | Dec 18 21:56 |
| schestowitz | ...Dead people use MSFT | Dec 18 21:56 |
| MinceR | braindead? | Dec 18 21:56 |
| schestowitz | Ingres is fauxsource | Dec 18 21:57 |
| schestowitz | "based on open source blah blah" | Dec 18 21:57 |
| MinceR | i thought it was opensource | Dec 18 21:57 |
| schestowitz | "based on open standards..." | Dec 18 21:57 |
| MinceR | the ancestor of postgresql and several proprietary rdbms-es | Dec 18 21:57 |
| schestowitz | "In the spirit of open-source..." | Dec 18 21:57 |
| MinceR | (almost all of them) | Dec 18 21:57 |
| schestowitz | Maybe | Dec 18 21:57 |
| MinceR | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingres_%28database%29 | Dec 18 21:58 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KB | Dec 18 21:58 |
| schestowitz | AFAIK they dual-license or something | Dec 18 21:58 |
| MinceR | WP says they dual-license | Dec 18 21:58 |
| schestowitz | Like ENterpriseDB | Dec 18 21:58 |
| MinceR | GPL and proprietary | Dec 18 21:58 |
| schestowitz | I call it trialversionare | Dec 18 21:59 |
| schestowitz | I argues against it with Mysql's CEO | Dec 18 21:59 |
| MinceR | depends on whether all the code is available as GPL | Dec 18 21:59 |
| schestowitz | After I lobbied WordPress to support more DBs | Dec 18 21:59 |
| *schestowitz freezes here... grrrrrrrr.... | Dec 18 22:00 | |
| schestowitz | http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/news/E236DE53018D1A46CC25768F0074B79A | Dec 18 22:14 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Computerworld > Amberdms gives green light to open source accounting .::. Size~: 29.58 KB | Dec 18 22:14 |
| schestowitz | Oh, GOD !!!1111111111 http://blog.beliefnet.com/apagansblog/2009/12/open-source-religion.html | Dec 18 22:14 |
| *sebsebseb (n=3seb@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 22:16 | |
| sebsebseb | hi | Dec 18 22:16 |
| schestowitz | Comparing phones to food is a bad idea, IMHO. http://www.thesearethedroids.com/2009/11/15/android-2-0-source-code-released/ | Dec 18 22:17 |
| MinceR | religion is overrated | Dec 18 22:17 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Android 2.0 Source Code Released | These are the Droids .::. Size~: 28.59 KB | Dec 18 22:17 |
| schestowitz | What's next? Google Sandwich? It looks like it. | Dec 18 22:17 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: maybe it's breakfast for Maemo. | Dec 18 22:18 |
| schestowitz | I like Maemo | Dec 18 22:18 |
| schestowitz | But it has lots of crap in there | Dec 18 22:18 |
| schestowitz | Like codecs and Flush [sic] | Dec 18 22:18 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: it's also adulterated (trash) | Dec 18 22:19 |
| schestowitz | Not just "overrated", IMVHO | Dec 18 22:19 |
| schestowitz | From what I've heard from people, it comes down to ignorance. vast majority does not understand how their surrounding works and moreover (more sadly) they have no desire to find out | Dec 18 22:20 |
| schestowitz | So I'm giving it up and might take the "RTFM" approach ("here are some books, etc.") | Dec 18 22:21 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: your buddy is boosting the G00 now. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10415537-16.html | Dec 18 22:22 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Could the Google train hurt Firefox? | The Open Road - CNET News .::. Size~: 127.19 KB | Dec 18 22:22 |
| MinceR | he isn't my buddy | Dec 18 22:22 |
| *Python1320 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Dec 18 22:23 | |
| schestowitz | It's like in schoolyard | Dec 18 22:23 |
| schestowitz | You're just pulling is braids cause you fancy him 11 | Dec 18 22:23 |
| MinceR | that sounds gay | Dec 18 22:24 |
| schestowitz | I'm pulling your leg | Dec 18 22:24 |
| schestowitz | But he came here chasing you, remember? | Dec 18 22:25 |
| *Python1320 (n=Python13@unaffiliated/python1320) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 22:25 | |
| schestowitz | You dared to criticise | Dec 18 22:25 |
| MinceR | i do | Dec 18 22:25 |
| schestowitz | Bad, bad!! | Dec 18 22:25 |
| MinceR | though i forgot what he said | Dec 18 22:25 |
| schestowitz | Only bad people criticise | Dec 18 22:25 |
| MinceR | probably wasn't worth remembering :) | Dec 18 22:25 |
| schestowitz | Good people say nothing | Dec 18 22:25 |
| schestowitz | They are told what to do and they do it | Dec 18 22:25 |
| schestowitz | They don't waste valuable obedience opportunity | Dec 18 22:25 |
| schestowitz | Only bad, poisonous, "Zealot" people have opinions | Dec 18 22:26 |
| schestowitz | :-) | Dec 18 22:26 |
| MinceR | :) | Dec 18 22:26 |
| schestowitz | *zealoud | Dec 18 22:26 |
| schestowitz | *zealous | Dec 18 22:26 |
| schestowitz | Boycott Novell is a very, very meany site | Dec 18 22:26 |
| schestowitz | It says negative things | Dec 18 22:26 |
| schestowitz | It's the word of the devil | Dec 18 22:26 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is our friend | Dec 18 22:27 |
| schestowitz | They are a corporation | Dec 18 22:27 |
| schestowitz | They give us jobs | Dec 18 22:27 |
| schestowitz | They pay tax (well, *some*) | Dec 18 22:27 |
| schestowitz | They help our government | Dec 18 22:27 |
| schestowitz | They actually pay for people to work there as lobbyists and give advice | Dec 18 22:27 |
| MinceR | no, no | Dec 18 22:27 |
| MinceR | crApple gives us Jobs. | Dec 18 22:27 |
| MinceR | ;) | Dec 18 22:27 |
| schestowitz | And those nasty Boycott Novell are interfering w/ them | Dec 18 22:27 |
| MinceR | well, m$ and crApple are living the New American Dream -- rip people off and collect a vast amount of wealth via fraud, and then slack off | Dec 18 22:29 |
| MinceR | and tread over anyone you wish | Dec 18 22:29 |
| *Python1320 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Dec 18 22:29 | |
| schestowitz | I'm very ashamed of us | Dec 18 22:30 |
| schestowitz | here we are talking about how the system is not healthy | Dec 18 22:30 |
| schestowitz | It leads to unrest | Dec 18 22:30 |
| schestowitz | Meanwhile Microsoft and Apple are kind enough to pay money to instruct our authorities | Dec 18 22:30 |
| *Python1320 (i=Python13@unaffiliated/python1320) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 22:30 | |
| schestowitz | Which usually means people in costumes and some companies backing them | Dec 18 22:30 |
| MinceR | it saves authorities the trouble of deciding what to do, right? | Dec 18 22:31 |
| MinceR | that's what the whole system is about -- saving everyone the trouble of thinking and decision-making | Dec 18 22:32 |
| schestowitz | It's good, you see? | Dec 18 22:32 |
| schestowitz | It's a good system | Dec 18 22:32 |
| schestowitz | I love corporations. They are so....... BIG!! | Dec 18 22:33 |
| schestowitz | We should invest in the Linux Foundation.... to help those poor companies like Intel and IBM that run it. | Dec 18 22:33 |
| schestowitz | Actually, some US founding father warned about such concentrations of powers | Dec 18 22:33 |
| schestowitz | They hardly existed 100 years ago... with some exceptions like the Rockefeller and later the telecoms | Dec 18 22:33 |
| schestowitz | Government-granted monopolies | Dec 18 22:34 |
| schestowitz | The Federal Reserve was established in 1913 IIRC | Dec 18 22:34 |
| schestowitz | Another good example of it | Dec 18 22:34 |
| schestowitz | And remember: | Dec 18 22:34 |
| schestowitz | If you criticise a corporation there is only one derived conclusion, that you are a red communist terrorist | Dec 18 22:35 |
| schestowitz | So don't criticise anything | Dec 18 22:35 |
| schestowitz | :-) :-) | Dec 18 22:35 |
| MinceR | "what's good for GM is good for America" or something like that | Dec 18 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Slavery finally ended cause people stopped bothering their landlords with criticism | Dec 18 22:35 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: not anymore | Dec 18 22:36 |
| MinceR | well, not with the same company name | Dec 18 22:36 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] well, i has my new domains. time to set up wordpress. and get writing shit. contributions welcome. paging @deathboy ... | Dec 18 22:36 | |
| schestowitz | "What's good for GM is mandatory to taxpayers' | Dec 18 22:36 |
| MinceR | but not much else changed | Dec 18 22:36 |
| schestowitz | "Uncle GM...." | Dec 18 22:36 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1566587/apple-stonewalls-vlc | Dec 18 22:38 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard from big disasters (one domain falling) come opportunities | Dec 18 22:38 | |
| schestowitz | Turd folded into Miguel's second home: http://www.cmswire.com/cms/web-cms/telligents-graffiti-web-cms-has-gone-open-source-and-moved-to-codeplex-006293.php | Dec 18 22:39 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Telligent's Graffiti Web CMS Has Gone Open Source and Moved to CodePlex .::. Size~: 53.85 KB | Dec 18 22:39 |
| *pentarex (n=pentarex@82-170-54-237.ip.telfort.nl) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 22:39 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.mundogeo.com.br/noticias-diarias.php?id_noticia=15734&lang_id=3 | Dec 18 22:40 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: PCI Geomatics To Release Open Source PCIDSK Library - News - MundoGEO .::. Size~: 15.51 KB | Dec 18 22:40 |
| schestowitz | http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Mozilla-releases-Firefox-3-6-Beta-5-889171.html | Dec 18 22:40 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Mozilla releases Firefox 3.6 Beta 5 - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 33.85 KB | Dec 18 22:40 |
| *schestowitz <3 FF | Dec 18 22:40 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/12/18/ingres_mysql_customers/ | Dec 18 22:41 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Ingres goes after disgruntled MySQL customers, partners • Channel Register .::. Size~: 22.4 KB | Dec 18 22:41 |
| *Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@93.102.66.131.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 22:42 | |
| schestowitz | http://ostatic.com/blog/even-firefox-has-its-bugs | Dec 18 22:43 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Even Firefox Has Its Bugs .::. Size~: 42.87 KB | Dec 18 22:43 |
| schestowitz | http://feeds.boingboing.net/~r/boingboing/iBag/~3/5gOqyq5LVXs/vertebrae-necklace.html | Dec 18 22:45 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Google FeedBurner .::. Size~: 11.6 KB | Dec 18 22:45 |
| schestowitz | Brilliant: http://www.boingboing.net/2009/12/17/remixed-danish-touri.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+boingboing%2FiBag+%28Boing+Boing%29 | Dec 18 22:48 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Remixed Danish tourist poster reflects the brutal new Copenhagen police-state Boing Boing .::. Size~: 112.96 KB | Dec 18 22:48 |
| schestowitz | http://amilabosnae.wordpress.com/2009/12/17/copenhagen-before-and-after/ | Dec 18 22:49 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Copenhagen before and after « Amila Bosnae .::. Size~: 37.18 KB | Dec 18 22:49 |
| schestowitz | http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9142449/Dell_offers_cheaper_quick_boot_system_based_on_flash_memory Nice! | Dec 18 22:57 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Dell offers cheaper quick-boot system based on flash memory .::. Size~: 130.52 KB | Dec 18 22:57 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz it didn't fall, I've left. but we shall see. no business model as yet, but a drop of content in a sea of ads sucks anyway. | Dec 18 23:00 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard yeah, those rascals don't know AdBlock, eh? :-) | Dec 18 23:04 | |
| *gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) has left #boycottnovell | Dec 18 23:05 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz notn with adblock would be a bare page. http://notnews.today.com/2009/04/28/phorm-phights-phoul-phreedom-phighters/ | Dec 18 23:10 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Phorm phights phoul phreedom phighters - News of the News .::. Size~: 37.58 KB | Dec 18 23:10 |
| *MinceR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Dec 18 23:12 | |
| *MinceR (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 23:12 | |
| *MinceR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Dec 18 23:17 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/12/australia_resto.html | Dec 18 23:17 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Schneier on Security: Australia Restores Some Sanity to Airport Screening .::. Size~: 44.99 KB | Dec 18 23:17 |
| *MinceR (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 23:17 | |
| *MinceR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Dec 18 23:19 | |
| *MinceR (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 23:19 | |
| *jono (n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 23:20 | |
| *MinceR has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Dec 18 23:20 | |
| *MinceR (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 23:21 | |
| trmanco | http://luxsci.com/blog/256-bit-aes-encryption-for-ssl-and-tls-maximal-security.html | Dec 18 23:21 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: 256-bit AES Encryption for SSL and TLS: Maximal Security | LuxSci FYI .::. Size~: 116.07 KB | Dec 18 23:21 |
| trmanco | interesting read | Dec 18 23:21 |
| *wallc_ has quit ("Page closed") | Dec 18 23:23 | |
| *Tallken has quit ("Leaving") | Dec 18 23:34 | |
| *DaemonFC (n=chatzill@c-69-245-242-208.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 23:41 | |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 18 23:41 | |
| *willimm has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) | Dec 18 23:50 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.6 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
