IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 19th, 2009

*jono has quit ("Ex-Chat")		Dec 19 00:19
DaemonFC	hmmm, there's a sex offender living downstairs	Dec 19 00:21
schestowitz	What specifically?	Dec 19 00:23
schestowitz	Your 'downstairs'?	Dec 19 00:24
DaemonFC	yeah	Dec 19 00:29
DaemonFC	the apartment downstairs	Dec 19 00:29
DaemonFC	http://www.insor.org/insasoweb/details.do?sid=366101.011	Dec 19 00:29
phIRCe-local	Title: Offender Details .::. Size~: 8.49 KB	Dec 19 00:29
oiaohm	http://jalopnik.com/5428829/ham-cramwich-25000-of-communications-gear-in-a-500-car Ok this is down right wrong.	Dec 19 00:29
phIRCe-local	Title: Ham Cramwich: $25,000 Of Communications Gear In A $500 Car - Gadgets - Jalopnik .::. Size~: 76.8 KB	Dec 19 00:30
DaemonFC	Criminal Sexual Conduct, it's an out of state charge	Dec 19 00:30
DaemonFC	from Michigan	Dec 19 00:30
schestowitz	Short dude	Dec 19 00:31
schestowitz	How did'ja find out and why?	Dec 19 00:32
DaemonFC	he got 2 years apparently and 10 years notification	Dec 19 00:32
DaemonFC	must be a D Felony or something	Dec 19 00:32
DaemonFC	I suspected	Dec 19 00:32
DaemonFC	see him move in with his mom, few possessions, just came from Michigan	Dec 19 00:33
DaemonFC	no car, rides a bike around	Dec 19 00:33
DaemonFC	it's enough to make you suspect he had done something wrong	Dec 19 00:33
schestowitz	Maybe he'll try to rape you LOL	Dec 19 00:33
DaemonFC	mmhm, lol indeed	Dec 19 00:34
DaemonFC	:D	Dec 19 00:34
schestowitz	You should come down, knock on the door and ask him about it :-D	Dec 19 00:34
DaemonFC	sex with someone under 16 looks like what he did	Dec 19 00:34
DaemonFC	he's straight, I guarantee it	Dec 19 00:34
schestowitz	Well, he's a small guy	Dec 19 00:35
DaemonFC	and what does that mean?	Dec 19 00:35
schestowitz	SMall guy	Dec 19 00:35
schestowitz	Physically small	Dec 19 00:35
DaemonFC	mmhm, so?	Dec 19 00:35
DaemonFC	so he might not be able to beat the shit out of me if he gets good and pissed off?	Dec 19 00:35
schestowitz	It can mean all sorts of things	Dec 19 00:35
oiaohm	Size is not everything.	Dec 19 00:36
schestowitz	No	Dec 19 00:36
schestowitz	ANd nothing to do with weapons and all	Dec 19 00:36
schestowitz	His offence	Dec 19 00:36
oiaohm	A small person can beat the crap out a big person if they get a chance to hit the right place.	Dec 19 00:36
schestowitz	SOmetimes all sorts of people who go for young girls or are impotent or something	Dec 19 00:36
schestowitz	IMHO	Dec 19 00:36
DaemonFC	impotent?	Dec 19 00:37
schestowitz	Yes.	Dec 19 00:37
schestowitz	Sex offenders in general	Dec 19 00:37
schestowitz	I think	Dec 19 00:37
DaemonFC	I wouldn't say that	Dec 19 00:37
schestowitz	THe logic goes, if he can't pull girls at the pub, then he might do illegal things	Dec 19 00:38
schestowitz	That's the general logic here	Dec 19 00:38
schestowitz	ANd BTW, I realise it's off-topic for this IRC channel	Dec 19 00:38
oiaohm	Its far more complex of a topic schestowitz really better to stay away from it. Its just trying to work out why people attack systems. There are thousands of causes.	Dec 19 00:41
schestowitz	Yes	Dec 19 00:44
schestowitz	Anyway, it's Ryan who brought it up	Dec 19 00:44
schestowitz	If he starts telling neighbours about it, then it may come to that dude's attention and he'll run after Ryan	Dec 19 00:45
DaemonFC	ugggh	Dec 19 00:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux Enables Car-driving Over #Internet http://www.voxy.co.nz/technology/drive-car-over-internet/893/33825		Dec 19 00:58
phIRCe-local	Title: Drive a Car Over the Internet \| Voxy.co.nz .::. Size~: 28.38 KB	Dec 19 00:58
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux #Conference Coming Down Under in January http://ur1.ca/i6ji http://ur1.ca/i6jj		Dec 19 01:00
phIRCe-local	Title: IT Brief - Linux conference open source eye opener .::. Size~: 37.24 KB	Dec 19 01:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Cavium Becomes #Linux Powerhouse, #IBM #developerWorks is 10 http://ur1.ca/i6jk http://ur1.ca/i6jl		Dec 19 01:02
phIRCe-local	Title: Cavium Networks Completes Acquisition of MontaVista Software .::. Size~: 40.23 KB	Dec 19 01:02
phIRCe-local	Title: IBM developerWorks looks back on 10 years of Linux - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 35.25 KB	Dec 19 01:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux and #FreeSoftware Target #Africa http://ur1.ca/i6jp http://ur1.ca/i6jr		Dec 19 01:05
phIRCe-local	Title: Linux Fund to support Africa Open Source initiatives ( - Software ) .::. Size~: 34.56 KB	Dec 19 01:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Provides Nightmare Experience on Desktop Compared to #GNU #Linux http://ur1.ca/i6js		Dec 19 01:06
phIRCe-local	Title: Charlie's Diary: Why I don't (usually) use Windows .::. Size~: 126.14 KB	Dec 19 01:06
schestowitz	DaemonFC: yeah, you can't say a thing	Dec 19 01:10
schestowitz	When I was about 16 a colleague told me our boss was lesbian	Dec 19 01:10
schestowitz	I told this to another person and eventually it sort of went backwards and she accused me	Dec 19 01:11
schestowitz	But this guy is not boss, he's a convicted felon	Dec 19 01:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Dell Promotes #GNU #Linux with Instant-On USB Keys, #Mandriva Too http://ur1.ca/i6k4 http://ur1.ca/i6k5		Dec 19 01:13
phIRCe-local	Title: Dell offers cheaper quick-boot system based on flash memory .::. Size~: 130.52 KB	Dec 19 01:13
phIRCe-local	Title: The Official Mandriva Blog » Blog Archive » Go faster with Mandriva InstantOn .::. Size~: 18.18 KB	Dec 19 01:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux #Servers Spread, Get Good Reviews http://ur1.ca/i6k7 http://ur1.ca/i6k8 http://ur1.ca/i6k9		Dec 19 01:15
phIRCe-local	Title: SNS EUROPE - ParaScale Announces Predictions for Cloud Storage in 2010 ... .::. Size~: 55.23 KB	Dec 19 01:15
phIRCe-local	Title: FT.com / Digital Business / What's new - Too many servers in your data centre? .::. Size~: 32.79 KB	Dec 19 01:15
phIRCe-local	Title: OpenBlock S600, a powerful server in the palm of your hand : Akihabara News .com .::. Size~: 40.99 KB	Dec 19 01:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Google #Chrome for #GNU #Linux Has New Version, Review of Chrome OS http://ur1.ca/i6kc http://ur1.ca/i6kd		Dec 19 01:16
phIRCe-local	Title: Google Chrome OS Initial Review .::. Size~: 28.52 KB	Dec 19 01:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Look at the #Scheduler in Latest #Linux http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-completely-fair-scheduler/index.html #cfs		Dec 19 01:17
phIRCe-local	Title: Inside the Linux 2.6 Completely Fair Scheduler .::. Size~: 56.71 KB	Dec 19 01:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] K Desktop Environment 4: Tips and Tricks http://techgage.com/article/ten_kde_4_tricks_worth_knowing_about/ #kde #kde4 #plasma		Dec 19 01:18
phIRCe-local	Title: Techgage - Ten KDE 4 Tricks Worth Knowing About .::. Size~: 27.27 KB	Dec 19 01:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Early Review of #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux 10.04 (Alpha 1) http://ur1.ca/i6km http://ur1.ca/i6kn		Dec 19 01:24
phIRCe-local	Title: First Look at Ubuntu 10.04 Alpha 1 \| Tombuntu .::. Size~: 29.12 KB	Dec 19 01:24
phIRCe-local	Title: Where does Ubuntu go from here? - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 129.46 KB	Dec 19 01:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #DiamondSystems Targets #Linux Developers http://www.electronicstalk.com/news/dam/dam113.html		Dec 19 01:25
phIRCe-local	Title: Diamond launches Linux software development kits: News from Diamond Systems .::. Size~: 38.2 KB	Dec 19 01:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Other Side of #CrunchPad Story: #FusionGarage Speaks Out http://ur1.ca/i6kv http://ur1.ca/i6kw		Dec 19 01:27
phIRCe-local	Title: Fusion Garage Slams TechCrunch's JooJoo Lawsuit - Yahoo! News .::. Size~: 96.96 KB	Dec 19 01:27
phIRCe-local	Title: JooJoo Tablet PC runs Linux .::. Size~: 58.95 KB	Dec 19 01:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux -powered litl Has a Chance with Similar Devices Out There http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9142405/Will_the_litl_make_it_big_		Dec 19 01:28
phIRCe-local	Title: Will the litl make it big? .::. Size~: 130.94 KB	Dec 19 01:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux on $99 PC; With Windows, It's 50% More Expensive http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/norhtec-gecko-surfboard-keyboard-pc-18-12-009/		Dec 19 01:30
phIRCe-local	Title: Norhtec Gecko Surfboard Keyboard PC \| Geeky Gadgets .::. Size~: 28.95 KB	Dec 19 01:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Tips and Tricks for #Linux #Phones from #Google 's Family http://ur1.ca/i6l4		Dec 19 01:34
phIRCe-local	Title: Master Google Android: 40 Tips and Tricks - PC World Business Center .::. Size~: 66.47 KB	Dec 19 01:34
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google to Enter Sub-notebooks Market Directly, with Own Hardware and GNU/Linux http://ur1.ca/i6l7		Dec 19 01:36
phIRCe-local	Title: Google Is Going to Release Its Own Chrome-based Netbook .::. Size~: 47.12 KB	Dec 19 01:36
notzed	be nice if it were arm based	Dec 19 01:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another Company to Enter Sub-notebooks Market with #GNU #Linux http://ur1.ca/i6la		Dec 19 01:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Amberdms Born as #FreeSoftware in Free Software Stack http://ur1.ca/i6lb #lamp		Dec 19 01:38
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schestowitz	notzed: some will be	Dec 19 01:38
notzed	i've got a couple of beagleboards but never had the drive to play with them much	Dec 19 01:39
notzed	i think there will be more andriod/googleos type os's around in the future, where linux is just used as a hardware driver layer. all the other free os's spend too much time writing drivers, many which are locked up using proprietary blobs which only linux supports	Dec 19 01:42
schestowitz	What do you think of Android?	Dec 19 01:45
notzed	it doesn't work with a keyboard and mouse? i tried it on the beagleboard but it was pretty 'well it's a phone-os and this isn't a phone' :)	Dec 19 01:46
oiaohm	Android can work without keyboard and mouse.	Dec 19 01:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mozilla #Firefox Gets #Chrome Features http://techie-buzz.com/firefox/mozilla-firefox-multiprocess.html		Dec 19 01:46
phIRCe-local	Title: Mozilla Firefox: now Multiprocess capabale .::. Size~: 54.19 KB	Dec 19 01:46
notzed	the idea/architecture sounds good though	Dec 19 01:47
oiaohm	Android I am waiting for native code to get access to opengl ES	Dec 19 01:47
oiaohm	Then I can just straight port qt apps to it.	Dec 19 01:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 3 More (New) Transformations to #FreeSoftware http://ur1.ca/i6ly http://ur1.ca/i6lz http://ur1.ca/i6m0		Dec 19 01:49
phIRCe-local	Title: Terminology Tools Open Sourced .::. Size~: 28.83 KB	Dec 19 01:49
phIRCe-local	Title: EtherPad goes open source - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 32.48 KB	Dec 19 01:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Release of #WordPress Imminent, New #WSO2 http://ur1.ca/i6m2 http://ur1.ca/i6m3		Dec 19 01:51
phIRCe-local	Title: WordPress 2.9 Release Candidate 1 released .::. Size~: 34.91 KB	Dec 19 01:51
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft #Patent Application on Shaming Fat Gamers http://ur1.ca/i6m8 #uspto #fail #joke		Dec 19 01:57
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #DRM Ruins the Film http://torrentfreak.com/drm-fiasco-ruins-james-camerons-avatar-3d-preview-091217/		Dec 19 01:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Denmark Censors Summit http://ur1.ca/i6mb		Dec 19 01:59
phIRCe-local	Title: DRM Fiasco Ruins James Camerons Avatar 3D Preview \| TorrentFreak .::. Size~: 80.92 KB	Dec 19 01:59
phIRCe-local	Title: Remixed Danish tourist poster reflects the brutal new Copenhagen police-state Boing Boing .::. Size~: 115.23 KB	Dec 19 01:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mandy 's #IntellectualMonopolies /Copyrights Cartel Law Debates, Reality Strikes http://ur1.ca/i6mf #arrrrrr		Dec 19 02:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Copyright #Cartels Created Across Borders http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4627/125/		Dec 19 02:05
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notzed	oh cool, aliens vs predator has been unbanned in oz	Dec 19 02:09
bill_	a tale of Balmer freaking out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GM4Lt5k24s	Dec 19 02:09
DaemonFC	it's been two days since I was paid and I've already burned through about 55% of the monthly budget	Dec 19 02:10
DaemonFC	this is going to be a bad month	Dec 19 02:10
shreddar	LOL Bing!	Dec 19 02:10
bill_	Bing! mother effer Bing! - oh it's so funny watching the big ones fall.	Dec 19 02:16
DaemonFC	Bing is big?	Dec 19 02:18
DaemonFC	hmmmm, there's a big demand for this 14 year old mediocre Microsoft game is more than I thought	Dec 19 02:19
bill_	what... solitaire or mines? har har har	Dec 19 02:20
notzed	hmm, bells go bing. light-bulbs show above cartoon characters go 'bing'. people just don't go bing. they do say yahoo! though	Dec 19 02:20
shreddar	What's margaret thatcher birthday?	Dec 19 02:22
shreddar	Hold on let me bing her real quick.	Dec 19 02:22
shreddar	Yep that's way better than google.	Dec 19 02:23
notzed	it's not even a verb, tho according to dictionary.com:	Dec 19 02:25
notzed	Bing - –verb (used without object) Obsolete. to go. Origin: 1560–70; orig. uncert.	Dec 19 02:25
notzed	actually the british dialect definition looks about right: –noun British Dialect. a heap or pile.	Dec 19 02:28
schestowitz	Yes, _goblin wrote about it	Dec 19 02:34
schestowitz	It's a real pile of something	Dec 19 02:34
schestowitz	gn	Dec 19 02:38
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schestowitz	ping tessier	Dec 19 02:49
schestowitz	For the past 10 minutes or so I can't get the server to serve pages, even though I've trid restarting apache. It's similar to what happened last week	Dec 19 02:50
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schestowitz	It seems to be working again now, don't know why	Dec 19 02:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Corporate Culture: “ #Bing up Your Ass, You’re Fired!” http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/18/ex-microsoft-employee-confession/		Dec 19 02:55
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DaemonFC	heh...."To Patronize and Annoy" on the side of Officer Barbrady's police car in SOuth Park :P	Dec 19 02:56
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shreddar	Sometimes I think Balmer is a joke that Bill is playing on Microsoft.	Dec 19 03:27
shreddar	Like as soom kind of prank Bill decided Balmer needed to be the public face of Microsoft.	Dec 19 03:28
shreddar	He doesn't care he still make tons of money regardless.	Dec 19 03:28
shreddar	Most of his income seems to be portfolio income.	Dec 19 03:34
DaemonFC	Windows reminds me of that scam a while back in Florida	Dec 19 03:35
DaemonFC	These guys went and built houses, but to get them done fast and cheap they didn't harden them against hurricanes.	Dec 19 03:35
DaemonFC	So they sell the house to some idiot from out of state who lives there a few years until a hurricane came and knocked it over.	Dec 19 03:35
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DaemonFC	it's so easy to get away with because someone who has never lived in Florida might not be inclined to ask if the house is hurricane hardened.	Dec 19 03:36
DaemonFC	What I'd like to see is something Bitlocker-like in Linux that can make use of the TPM	Dec 19 03:39
DaemonFC	there's probably something like that already with no obvious way to use it	Dec 19 03:39
DaemonFC	I've been hesitant towards using disk encryption in Linux for reasons of performance and worrying about locking myself out by mistake	Dec 19 03:40
DaemonFC	I haven't used it in Windows because Microsoft bakes in backdoors for law enforcement to use anyway	Dec 19 03:40
shreddar	I'd like to see a a webapp that lets you turn you undrm movies you get from iTunes and Amazon.	Dec 19 03:43
shreddar	Like the ones that let you download youtube videos	Dec 19 03:44
shreddar	II'd also want one that does that for DVDs.	Dec 19 03:45
DaemonFC	well, undrm-ing is illegal in the US and will get you a big fat DMCA take-down note if they catch you hosting software that does it	Dec 19 03:45
shreddar	What about out side of the US?	Dec 19 03:46
DaemonFC	I used FairUse4WM to undrm a bunch of music from various DRM'd WMA stores	Dec 19 03:46
oiaohm	Not exactly shreddar as a charity bill gates gets to push ms and other objectives while attempt to look good.	Dec 19 03:46
DaemonFC	shreddar: Most governments have something akin to the DMCA or worse	Dec 19 03:46
DaemonFC	or no statute but they harass people that host things anyway	Dec 19 03:47
DaemonFC	the DMCA is a very self-contradicting law anyway	Dec 19 03:47
DaemonFC	like, you can break DRM through clean room reverse engineering for the purpose of establishing interoperability	Dec 19 03:48
DaemonFC	so libdvdcss is probably legal so the media companies more or less leave it alone	Dec 19 03:48
DaemonFC	for example	Dec 19 03:48
DaemonFC	the way I understand it, ACTA's goal is a DMCA on steroids that removes the few consumer protections in the US law	Dec 19 03:49
DaemonFC	and becomes an international treaty :)	Dec 19 03:49
DaemonFC	DMCA wasn't exactly everything Big Media wanted, on a silver platter. It was close, but it's backfired on them enough for them to keep pressing for something more consumer-hostile.	Dec 19 03:50
DaemonFC	Ubuntu used a DMCA take down order against the MPAA for example	Dec 19 03:51
DaemonFC	over the University Toolkit which violated the GPL	Dec 19 03:51
DaemonFC	the RIAA/MPAA really want something that removes exemptions for reverse engineering for compatibility, and eliminates the (perhaps weak) protections of a jury trial for everyone they sue	Dec 19 03:52
DaemonFC	they basically want the law changed to where instead of getting a court order for your ISP to identify you, filing a lawsuit, going through the process, etc., they would just send out a letter through your ISP ordering you to pay an arbitrary "settlement" and that's it	Dec 19 03:54
DaemonFC	no establishing guilt, no jury to decide damages, just accusation, fine, the end	Dec 19 03:55
DaemonFC	it's unconstitutional, but I wouldn't put it past them being able to get it anyway	Dec 19 03:56
DaemonFC	PATRIOT ACT was already a nullification of the bill of rights, by statute	Dec 19 03:57
DaemonFC	or an attempt anyway, some of it has been struck down as unconstitutional, but the thing is that what's constitutional or not is just some judge's opinion	Dec 19 03:57
DaemonFC	nothing stops Congress from passing unconstitutional laws and letting the courts sort out the mess piece by piece later	Dec 19 03:58
DaemonFC	I'm really interested to see what happens with the healthcare bill which has more pages than War and Peace	Dec 19 03:59
DaemonFC	no doubt they'll point to the "Commerce Clause" which is probably the worst-written part of the US Constitution	Dec 19 04:00
shreddar	Well there is a upside at least.	Dec 19 04:03
DaemonFC	this is what precisely?	Dec 19 04:05
shreddar	Wait a minute. I'm thinking...	Dec 19 04:05
DaemonFC	The Republicans already won	Dec 19 04:07
DaemonFC	Either they defeat the bill, which is a win	Dec 19 04:07
DaemonFC	or they destroy Medicare, which is a win	Dec 19 04:07
DaemonFC	actually, I think the Republicans win more if it passes, they've been trying to kill Medicare for like over 40 years now	Dec 19 04:08
shreddar	Oh well, I'm sure I will think of it some other time.	Dec 19 04:08
DaemonFC	this way it looks like the Democrats let it die on their watch	Dec 19 04:08
DaemonFC	What's better than to win and tell the pissed off voters the other party ruined Medicare?	Dec 19 04:08
DaemonFC	Medicare Part D didn't even do 1/10th the damage to the Medicare trust fund that putting 5 million more people on it	Dec 19 04:10
shreddar	Are you one of those people who still think that one of the 2 parties has the public's interests at heart?	Dec 19 04:11
DaemonFC	not really, the Republicans are just more open about it I guess	Dec 19 04:12
notzed	just as much an example as the banks that `democracy' is about controlling the people, not serving them	Dec 19 04:18
DaemonFC	$785 billion for the banks with no conditions.....check	Dec 19 04:21
DaemonFC	cut food stamps by 15% and frisk them for more information than a TSA background check would need....check	Dec 19 04:21
DaemonFC	Allow banks to keep throwing millions of people out of their homes via the county sheriff while using the $785 billion in taxpayer money to give record CEO bonuses.....check	Dec 19 04:22
DaemonFC	Swell the Section 8 HUD Income Adjusted Housing program waiting list to 5 years and cut its funding.....check	Dec 19 04:23
DaemonFC	Give companies who bring 65 jobs to Indiana after cutting 300 in Michigan $4 million dollars in property tax subsidization and $500,000 in "worker training" funds.....check	Dec 19 04:24
DaemonFC	notzed: I'm quite well aware of how bad our government is	Dec 19 04:25
DaemonFC	and both parties sign off on this stuff	Dec 19 04:25
DaemonFC	so only a fucking morong (plenty of them) would believe the healthcare bill has anything beneficial to us in it	Dec 19 04:26
DaemonFC	*moron	Dec 19 04:26
DaemonFC	that's why I'm opposed to it	Dec 19 04:26
notzed	you still need one, just not that one	Dec 19 04:26
DaemonFC	it is 10 times as complicated as it needs to be, it's full of handouts to big companies, and it's going to force you by law to purchase overpriced corporate health insurance or face a tax penalty	Dec 19 04:27
DaemonFC	it's a bad bill and it's going to pass	Dec 19 04:27
DaemonFC	and 5 years from now, people are going to be so pissed that they were duped into letting the Democrats draw this up	Dec 19 04:28
notzed	if they're not shooting each other for food	Dec 19 04:28
DaemonFC	it won't make healthcare affordable, you'll deal with the same companies trying to deny you needed care you deal with now, and if you opt out of that, the government will raise your taxes by at least 33%	Dec 19 04:29
shreddar	The dichotomy of Republicans and Democrats seems to be used as a tool to blind people to positions and issues that really mater when voting for laws and public officials and just settle for two opposite choices.	Dec 19 04:29
DaemonFC	the Republicans and Democrats are the same thing	Dec 19 04:29
DaemonFC	you can throw the bastards out in every election and not get any better government the next time around	Dec 19 04:30
DaemonFC	Obama started out with the appearance of not being quite as corrupt as Bush, but he's every bit as bad now	Dec 19 04:31
DaemonFC	maybe not quite so painful to listen to, and that just makes him more dangerous	Dec 19 04:31
DaemonFC	there's less corruption usually on the state and county levels	Dec 19 04:32
DaemonFC	the perfect example is the state laws refusing to implement REAL ID	Dec 19 04:33
shreddar	Like those frat boys who ask retarded question like "If you had to choose between sex with Betty White or RuPaul which would you choose?"	Dec 19 04:33
DaemonFC	the feds are now trying to repeal REAL ID so they don't get into a showdown with more than half the states	Dec 19 04:34
DaemonFC	they're scared that if they don't get rid of it, they might make an issue of the fact that the states played Chicken with the feds and won	Dec 19 04:34
DaemonFC	they're trying to come back with PASS ID which strikes a lot of the worst stuff from REAL ID	Dec 19 04:35
DaemonFC	unfortunately, Indiana is one of the most REAL ID compliant states. The drivers licenses here aren't fully compliant but they're closer than something I want in my wallet	Dec 19 04:36
DaemonFC	which is why I've avoided doing anything that would make me have to turn in my non-REAL ID compliant license	Dec 19 04:36
DaemonFC	our governor is a former Bush henchman	Dec 19 04:37
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] #Firefox 3.5.6 and 3.0.16 security updates released >> http://bit.ly/6WVYT9		Dec 19 04:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] #Android Market reaches 20,000 applications - Update >> http://bit.ly/5LZLmg		Dec 19 04:48
phIRCe-local	Title: Mozilla Developer News » Blog Archive » Firefox 3.5.6 and 3.0.16 security updates now available for download .::. Size~: 19.84 KB	Dec 19 04:48
phIRCe-local	Title: Android Market reaches 20,000 applications - Update - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 34.12 KB	Dec 19 04:48
DaemonFC	http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1566693/canonical-s-shuttleworth-steps	Dec 19 04:49
DaemonFC	online storage is kind of a stupid business model	Dec 19 04:51
DaemonFC	you could have a 2 TB hard drive for what it costs to subscribe to 50 GB for a few months on some remote server	Dec 19 04:52
DaemonFC	there's like almost nobody that would benefit from online backups	Dec 19 04:52
DaemonFC	you could own a 32 GB thumb drive for like $30	Dec 19 04:52
DaemonFC	it's anywhere you are, and no net connection required	Dec 19 04:53
notzed	unless you lose it, it fails, or want to access it from multiple places at once	Dec 19 04:54
DaemonFC	and we all know that no remote server ever goes down :)	Dec 19 04:55
DaemonFC	no company ever loses your files on their server	Dec 19 04:55
DaemonFC	it happens often enough that you know you can't depend on them either	Dec 19 04:55
notzed	irrelevent, it's just that there are further costs beyond the price of the hard drive, and different features available	Dec 19 04:55
DaemonFC	I still have hard drives that 17 years old	Dec 19 04:56
DaemonFC	no bad sectors, boots up just fine	Dec 19 04:56
DaemonFC	of course some die after a month	Dec 19 04:56
DaemonFC	so don't trust anything	Dec 19 04:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @psuresh: You own old PC/laptop loaded with #FreeSoftware ? Like do some charity? Clear e-waste? Then => http://www.freelinuxbox.org		Dec 19 05:18
phIRCe-local	Title: FreeLinuxBox.Org .::. Size~: 3.47 KB	Dec 19 05:18
sebsebseb	hmm	Dec 19 05:24
sebsebseb	http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/12/ubuntu-1004-will-bring-panel-overhaul-social-network-menu.ars	Dec 19 05:24
phIRCe-local	Title: Ubuntu 10.04 will bring panel overhaul, social network menu .::. Size~: 42.52 KB	Dec 19 05:24
sebsebseb	also this is a good read http://www.insidesocal.com/click/2009/12/ubuntu-linux-gnome-and-xorg-th.html	Dec 19 05:25
sebsebseb	no bot that time?	Dec 19 05:25
sebsebseb	http://www.insidesocal.com/click/2009/12/ubuntu-linux-gnome-and-xorg-th.html	Dec 19 05:25
DaemonFC	Ron White: Now this is Florida....so you know the cops drove past three meth labs and a dead hooker to find 7/8ths of a gram of marijuana on me.	Dec 19 05:26
DaemonFC	:D	Dec 19 05:26
tessier	schestowitz: How's it going? Was there a problem? Just got home.	Dec 19 05:27
tessier	Ah. Just read scrollback.	Dec 19 05:28
tessier	Weird...	Dec 19 05:28
DaemonFC	I have no idea why Avatar is doing so well	Dec 19 05:36
DaemonFC	I might sneak into the theater and catch it	Dec 19 05:36
DaemonFC	I'm figuring out a movie hopping schedule for tomorrow	Dec 19 05:40
oiaohm	DaemonFC: Data recovery firms exist because businesses lose data from time to time.	Dec 19 05:46
DaemonFC	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o39ZuGNaGVg	Dec 19 05:47
DaemonFC	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMLIOtBLqoU&feature=related	Dec 19 05:53
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DaemonFC	http://www.indystar.com/article/20091201/NEWS02/912010368/	Dec 19 06:03
phIRCe-local	Title: Deputy constable put badges up for sale \| IndyStar.com \| The Indianapolis Star .::. Size~: 121.48 KB	Dec 19 06:03
DaemonFC	I wanna be a deputy sheriff, can anyone loan me $2500?	Dec 19 06:04
DaemonFC	lol	Dec 19 06:04
DaemonFC	I'll pay it right back with all the money I get from my bribes and racketeering	Dec 19 06:04
DaemonFC	ATI released a new driver that still doesn't support Fedora 12	Dec 19 06:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] my router had to choose today to get all flaky, when I have a new netbook to install stuff to, after several hours it's back up \o/		Dec 19 06:47
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Omar87	Hi all.	Dec 19 09:00
Omar87	http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-linux-10th-anniversary/index.html	Dec 19 09:00
phIRCe-local	Title: IBM developerWorks : 10 important Linux developments everyone should know about .::. Size~: 49.93 KB	Dec 19 09:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @gkjohn: At a meeting on the #Commons being held @cis_india. Also here, @anivar @jackerhack @sunil_abraham @hpnadig vinaysreenivasa		Dec 19 09:12
schestowitz	[05:27] <tessier> schestowitz: How's it going? Was there a problem? Just got home.	Dec 19 09:13
schestowitz	I'm not sure if it's a connectivity issue. It happened last week too and it sort of 'resolves itself'	Dec 19 09:13
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tessier	schestowitz: if you can ssh in it isn't a connectivity issue	Dec 19 09:42
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why #GNOME Funding is Equivalent to Lobbying and Why #Novell is Against GPL Enforcement http://ur1.ca/i72v		Dec 19 09:46
phIRCe-local	Title: Why GNOME Funding is Equivalent to Lobbying and Why Novell is Likely Against GPL Enforcement \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 106.15 KB	Dec 19 09:46
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Omar87	Oh my God.. This one is so damn hilarious. :D http://jazarah.net/blog/al-arabiya-microsoft-to-launch-google-wave-next-year/	Dec 19 09:58
phIRCe-local	Title: Al-Arabiya: Microsoft to launch Google Wave next year! \| jazarah! .::. Size~: 34.77 KB	Dec 19 09:58
Omar87	schestowitz: You should check it out. :-P	Dec 19 09:58
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] finally found the text entry box in gwibber on UNR, hiding by default is not very newbie friendly		Dec 19 10:01
schestowitz	tessier: yes, that's what I thought	Dec 19 10:08
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*amarsh04 found that the "use fontsets" option in the very old xmms 1.2 doubled cpu usage of Xorg		Dec 19 10:12
notzed	does turning off the scrolling songname help?	Dec 19 10:13
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amarsh04	I'll check on that, but I've confirmed that the "use fontsets" options causes a major leap in Xorg cpu usage	Dec 19 10:14
amarsh04	I was thinking that something had broken with a kernel upgrade	Dec 19 10:16
notzed	it wouldn't be an unreasonable assumption these days :)	Dec 19 10:16
amarsh04	I have "smooth scrolling" of the playlist disabled, but couldn't find a setting for scrolling of the currently playing song title, will check a bit more	Dec 19 10:17
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] the more I hear the #shotofjaq theme, the more I like the "new strings"crispness of the bass, done in a pro quality studio, pity its Windows		Dec 19 10:19
notzed	i used to use it all the time, but haven't for years. damn distros 'updating' to software just because it's actively maintained	Dec 19 10:19
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amarsh04	not sure what happened, segmentation fault in konversation (under KDE 3.5.9/3.5.10)	Dec 19 10:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Moonlight and #HyperV Still #Novell -Only and #SUSE -Only in Some Ways http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/19/novell-only-moonlight-access/		Dec 19 10:25
phIRCe-local	Title: Moonlight and Hyper-V Still Novell-Only and SUSE-Only in Some Ways \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 110.91 KB	Dec 19 10:25
notzed	ahh so now other distro's can only 'legally' use a `open and free' java knock-off. how generous!	Dec 19 10:32
MinceR	moonblight is the flash knockoff, not the java knockoff :>	Dec 19 10:33
notzed	oh yes of course, sorry	Dec 19 10:33
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schestowitz	notzed: not even that	Dec 19 10:37
schestowitz	Mono has fences around it too	Dec 19 10:37
schestowitz	And they can't modify it either	Dec 19 10:37
schestowitz	If they deviate from ECMA, no 'promise'	Dec 19 10:37
schestowitz	Winforms and other parts are not covered, either	Dec 19 10:38
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notzed	nod	Dec 19 10:39
schestowitz	http://www.truthout.org/1214091	Dec 19 10:42
phIRCe-local	Title: t r u t h o u t \| Veterans Group Calls On Soldiers to Refuse Orders to Deploy to Afghanistan and Iraq .::. Size~: 83.99 KB	Dec 19 10:42
notzed	hah, from bob parks' 'what's new': iranians have been watching the video feed from the predator drones - it's not encrypted	Dec 19 10:42
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schestowitz	notzed:	Dec 19 10:44
schestowitz	In today's digest, we have:	Dec 19 10:44
schestowitz	* [SOT] Governments Intrude Privacy Futher and Rely on Proprietary	Dec 19 10:44
schestowitz	Software	Dec 19 10:44
schestowitz	* [Rival] OOXML Misconduct Comes to Geneva	Dec 19 10:44
schestowitz	* More GNU/Linux Laptops Coming to India	Dec 19 10:44
schestowitz	* Linux Advances Towards 2.6.25, But Still Supports Very Old PCs	Dec 19 10:44
schestowitz	* [Rival] Microsoft Tries Bringing a BBC-Type Fiasco to Other Countries	Dec 19 10:44
schestowitz	* [Rival] Windows Server Can Be Own3D by Other Businesses ("Critical"	Dec 19 10:44
schestowitz	Flaw)	Dec 19 10:44
schestowitz	* Asterisk Grows up As Linux-powered Solution	Dec 19 10:44
schestowitz	* [SOT] More Bands Become RIAA-independent, Adopt Free Software Model	Dec 19 10:44
schestowitz	* "Open Source" Spreads to Other Areas Including Housing	Dec 19 10:44
schestowitz	* FOSS Advocates Angry at Microsoft Steretypes; Second Life Artists	Dec 19 10:44
schestowitz	Angry at Trademark	Dec 19 10:44
schestowitz	* Dell Works on Improving GNU/Linux Hardware Choice	Dec 19 10:44
schestowitz	* Mandriva Linux 2008.1 Reaches Beta, Screenshots Available	Dec 19 10:44
schestowitz	* Joomla 1.5 is Released, Mobile Firefox Sneak Peek	Dec 19 10:44
schestowitz	* GNU/Linux Has All the Needed Applications, Including Windows Ones	Dec 19 10:44
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schestowitz	Hold cr*	Dec 19 10:45
schestowitz	Bad paste	Dec 19 10:45
schestowitz	http://www.linuxelectrons.com/news/general/14365/duh-windows-encryption-hacked-via-random-number-generator">http://www.linuxelectrons.com/news/general/14365/duh-windows-encryption-hacked-via-random-number-generator	Dec 19 10:45
phIRCe-local	Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB	Dec 19 10:46
phIRCe-local	Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB	Dec 19 10:47
notzed	server not found	Dec 19 10:47
schestowitz	http://www.ctvolympics.ca/news-centre/newsid=22178.html	Dec 19 10:52
phIRCe-local	Title: CTV Olympics - Vancouver orders removal of anti-Olympic mural .::. Size~: 47.25 KB	Dec 19 10:52
fewa	the on-demand corprotocracy	Dec 19 10:52
fewa	With Police State!	Dec 19 10:53
notzed	well the more they're heavy handed the more it tarnishes the 'spotless' image. then again, china was a 'success' too.	Dec 19 10:56
schestowitz	notzed: indeed, it's down	Dec 19 10:57
fewa	notzed, "success" according to the same corporate media	Dec 19 10:57
schestowitz	http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8411605.stm	Dec 19 10:57
phIRCe-local	Title: BBC NEWS \| News Front Page .::. Size~: 86.09 KB	Dec 19 10:57
notzed	there's something disturbing about countries spending so much money fighting over little gold discs for the selected few	Dec 19 10:57
fewa	notzed, they are not	Dec 19 10:57
schestowitz	notzed: and it's like Streinsand effect with the Olympics	Dec 19 10:57
schestowitz	They make it look like a suppressive evnt	Dec 19 10:57
fewa	the rich love to have an excuse to spend public money kicking out the poor and gentrififying a city	Dec 19 10:57
schestowitz	In China they gagged athletes and journos	Dec 19 10:57
fewa	not to mention the ability to institute police state measures and survilence	Dec 19 10:58
notzed	success == lots of ratings and sponsorship money.	Dec 19 10:58
schestowitz	notzed: Olympics keep people distracted	Dec 19 10:58
schestowitz	They worry about who runs faster rather than who rips them off :-)	Dec 19 10:58
fewa	http://www.democracynow.org/2008/8/8/this_is_the_olympics_the_west	Dec 19 10:59
phIRCe-local	Title: "This is the Olympics the West Wanted" - Dave Zirin on US Corporations Entering China, Athletes Speaking Out and the Games from '68 to Today .::. Size~: 51.64 KB	Dec 19 10:59
notzed	still, money would be better spent on football and the like, at least according to a recent govt report. gee the ioc guy was livid at that suggestion.	Dec 19 10:59
notzed	(if all they want to do is entertain the plebs)	Dec 19 10:59
schestowitz	http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2009/12/13/crackdown-in-copenhagen/ http://criminaljustice.change.org/actions/view/stop_danish_police_abuses_against_peaceful_climate_protestors	Dec 19 10:59
phIRCe-local	Title: Crackdown in Copenhagen « Its Getting Hot In Here .::. Size~: 50.81 KB	Dec 19 10:59
schestowitz	Lobbyists = good	Dec 19 10:59
phIRCe-local	Title: Actions \| Criminal Justice \| Change.org .::. Size~: 63.81 KB	Dec 19 10:59
schestowitz	Activists = bad	Dec 19 10:59
fewa	http://www.democracynow.org/2009/10/2/sportswriter_dave_zirin_on_obamas_olympic	Dec 19 10:59
phIRCe-local	Title: Sportswriter Dave Zirin on Obama's Olympic Error .::. Size~: 49.77 KB	Dec 19 10:59
fewa	<notzed> still, money would be better spent on football and the like	Dec 19 11:00
fewa	LOL	Dec 19 11:00
fewa	how bout health care?	Dec 19 11:00
fewa	or even foot care	Dec 19 11:00
schestowitz	That's sssssooo yesterday, fewa	Dec 19 11:00
fewa	I don't think it seriously costs much to buy a few soccer balls	Dec 19 11:00
schestowitz	Now we move on to something else	Dec 19 11:00
schestowitz	BTW:	Dec 19 11:00
schestowitz	Healthcare AstroTurf were made where they bribed people to stage protest against reform in Facebook	Dec 19 11:01
schestowitz	These criminals have no ethical barriers	Dec 19 11:01
schestowitz	I reckon they'll 'suicide' people if any prominent ones like Wendel stood in their way	Dec 19 11:01
fewa	nah	Dec 19 11:01
notzed	http://www.theage.com.au/news/sport/aoc-prepares-for-legal-action-over-report/2009/11/23/1258824670339.html	Dec 19 11:02
notzed	sheesh	Dec 19 11:02
phIRCe-local	Title: AOC prepares for legal action over report - Sport - theage.com.au .::. Size~: 72.16 KB	Dec 19 11:02
fewa	even that stuff is nothing, its all a play	Dec 19 11:02
schestowitz	http://google-au.blogspot.com/2009/12/our-views-on-mandatory-isp-filtering.html	Dec 19 11:03
phIRCe-local	Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB	Dec 19 11:03
schestowitz	Google is pissing off the MAFIAA even more	Dec 19 11:03
fewa	http://pnhp.org/news/2009/november/pnhp-co-founder-dr-steffie-woolhandler-on-the-passage-of-house-bill-3962	Dec 19 11:04
phIRCe-local	Title: PNHP co-founder Dr. Steffie Woolhandler on the passage of House Bill 3962 \| Physicians for a National Health Program .::. Size~: 31.09 KB	Dec 19 11:04
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fewa	they started from something where there is proof it will not work	Dec 19 11:04
schestowitz	"Exposing politically controversial topics for public debate is vital for democracy."	Dec 19 11:05
notzed	but a nuisance for running the country!	Dec 19 11:06
notzed	the filter has to have something to do with acta and the 'national broadband network', it can't all just be to appease steve 'godbotherer' fielding	Dec 19 11:07
schestowitz	http://www.pythian.com/news/6427/a-mysql-community-member-opinion-of-oracle-buying-sun/	Dec 19 11:08
phIRCe-local	Title: A MySQL Community Member Opinion of Oracle Buying Sun \| The Pythian Blog .::. Size~: 61.68 KB	Dec 19 11:08
fewa	http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2541736281918823479	Dec 19 11:08
phIRCe-local	Title: Copyright regime vs. civil liberties .::. Size~: 39.91 KB	Dec 19 11:08
fewa	Rick Falkvinge (swedish pirate party) talks about copyright MAFIAA	Dec 19 11:09
fewa	as copyright now enters private space there is a choce	Dec 19 11:09
fewa	mail secrecy, civil liberties, privacy OR copyright (obsolete industry protection)	Dec 19 11:10
fewa	the MAFIAA can only win if they can get the _entire_ internet filtered	Dec 19 11:10
schestowitz	notzed: http://www.boingboing.net/2009/12/16/three-strikes-law-re.html	Dec 19 11:11
phIRCe-local	Title: Three strikes law reintroduced in New Zealand Boing Boing .::. Size~: 76.42 KB	Dec 19 11:11
notzed	yeah it's outrageous	Dec 19 11:12
fewa	in the age of mass media copyright infringement happened in public places	Dec 19 11:13
fewa	and the barrier of entry was high	Dec 19 11:13
fewa	(printing press or movie theatre)	Dec 19 11:13
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notzed	well it comes down to the whole police state we're moving toward everywhere. 'behave or you're buggered for the rest of your life'	Dec 19 11:14
schestowitz	Background checks in many DBs	Dec 19 11:15
schestowitz	Selected for obedience...	Dec 19 11:15
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schestowitz	http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/2009/corp_121809.html	Dec 19 11:16
phIRCe-local	Title: Cisco Completes Acquisition of Starent Networks -> Cisco News .::. Size~: 32.36 KB	Dec 19 11:16
schestowitz	Pretending that there is competition	Dec 19 11:16
schestowitz	Oligrachy	Dec 19 11:17
schestowitz	How much of the wealth do the top 50 companies control?	Dec 19 11:17
notzed	where will it end, will it just keep building up till people realise it's too late and suddenly there's black shirts running around?	Dec 19 11:17
*ThistleWeb is now known as ThistleWind		Dec 19 11:17
schestowitz	notzed: human nature...	Dec 19 11:17
schestowitz	We are engineered to expand	Dec 19 11:18
schestowitz	Developed man is only thousands of years old	Dec 19 11:18
*_goblin has quit ("Ex-Chat")		Dec 19 11:18
schestowitz	The earth is about 4,000,000,000 years old, IIRC	Dec 19 11:18
notzed	i've got this uneasy feeling we descended from a line of violent agressors - that's been the winning strategy so far	Dec 19 11:19
schestowitz	http://mitworld.mit.edu/video/100	Dec 19 11:19
phIRCe-local	Title: Institutions vs. People: Will the Species Self-Destruct? \| MIT World .::. Size~: 17.34 KB	Dec 19 11:19
schestowitz	http://cbs4denver.com/national/predator.drones.hacked.2.1375262.html	Dec 19 11:21
schestowitz	I can't help but wonder...	Dec 19 11:21
schestowitz	And do say so if I overstep the line	Dec 19 11:21
schestowitz	If Iraq was flying a drone over Washington	Dec 19 11:21
schestowitz	And the Pentagon managed to intercept the signal...	Dec 19 11:21
schestowitz	Then how would the English-speaking press (Anglo-American propaganda model) describe this?	Dec 19 11:22
notzed	if they ever even found out	Dec 19 11:23
oiaohm	notzed: biggest worry is items like irobot from metalstorm	Dec 19 11:24
oiaohm	We could get to the point that all deady force is controlled by machines.	Dec 19 11:24
MinceR	would that be bad?	Dec 19 11:24
schestowitz	They want to take over Europe too... the cowboyz. http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/17/sheldon-adelson-forbes-400-business-billionaires-adelson.html	Dec 19 11:24
phIRCe-local	Title: The Richest Man In Vegas Speaks! - Forbes.com .::. Size~: 30.76 KB	Dec 19 11:25
schestowitz	"We’ve been talking to a country near the Mediterranean about developing something. I’d like to build another Cotai Strip, another Las Vegas in Europe. There are plenty of opportunities out there."	Dec 19 11:25
notzed	the sonic burning thing sounds scarier to me, and something likely coming to a police department near you one day soon	Dec 19 11:25
oiaohm	What if someone hacked into them MinceR	Dec 19 11:25
schestowitz	http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/article6955241.ece	Dec 19 11:25
phIRCe-local	Title: Intoxicated by power, Blair tricked us into war -Times Online .::. Size~: 93.34 KB	Dec 19 11:25
schestowitz	http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=MEMO/09/568&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en "EU Telecoms Reform: 12 reforms to pave way for stronger consumer rights, an open internet, a single European telecoms market and high-speed internet connections for all citizens"	Dec 19 11:26
phIRCe-local	Title: EUROPA - Press Releases - EU Telecoms Reform: 12 reforms to pave way for stronger consumer rights, an open internet, a single European telecoms market and high-speed internet connections for all citizens .::. Size~: 47.02 KB	Dec 19 11:26
MinceR	what if someone brainwashed or bribed the people responsible? :>	Dec 19 11:26
schestowitz	MinceR: that would never happen !!	Dec 19 11:27
MinceR	lol	Dec 19 11:27
MinceR	"That's crazy! The government doesn't lie to people!"	Dec 19 11:27
schestowitz	!google pipes internet bribe senator	Dec 19 11:27
phIRCe-local	[1] - 'Series of tubes' senator convicted of corruption \| Politics and ... \| http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10076855-38.html	Dec 19 11:27
phIRCe-local	[2] - Pipe Dreams: Bill Allen, The Corrupt PPT and ACES From ASHES ... \| http://shannynmoore.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/36-months-and-750000/	Dec 19 11:27
phIRCe-local	[3] - Slashdot \| How The Internet Works - With Tubes \| http://politics.slashdot.org/article.pl%3Fsid%3D06/07/03/0643238	Dec 19 11:27
phIRCe-local	[4] - VC Blog on Storage, Wireless/VoIP, Internet \| http://charlescurran.typepad.com/	Dec 19 11:27
schestowitz	Senator Tubby Tube	Dec 19 11:29
schestowitz	They pardon him cause he's rich	Dec 19 11:29
schestowitz	jails are for shoplifters	Dec 19 11:30
schestowitz	It's hungry shoplifters that ruin society, not reckless banksters and people who trade in bribes :-)	Dec 19 11:30
notzed	http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2007/10/robot-cannon-ki/	Dec 19 11:30
phIRCe-local	Title: Robot Cannon Kills 9, Wounds 14 \| Danger Room \| Wired.com .::. Size~: 104.51 KB	Dec 19 11:30
schestowitz	Keep the poor people scared and the rich people happy	Dec 19 11:31
schestowitz	That's the recipe for a healthy economy	Dec 19 11:31
schestowitz	Not the poor happy and the exploiters on their toes	Dec 19 11:31
schestowitz	Job insecurity is therefore very good for the economy	Dec 19 11:31
notzed	well it's worked just fine so far hasn't it?	Dec 19 11:31
schestowitz	It gets better	Dec 19 11:31
schestowitz	Better as in, the gap widens	Dec 19 11:32
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/18/ex-microsoft-employee-confession/	Dec 19 11:32
phIRCe-local	Title: Microsoft Corporate Culture: Bing up Your Ass, Youre Fired! \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 104.51 KB	Dec 19 11:32
schestowitz	See?	Dec 19 11:32
schestowitz	I'm sure Microsoft employees will be obedient now	Dec 19 11:32
schestowitz	Mafia Don Steve has reestablished his "credibility"	Dec 19 11:33
schestowitz	The "out of control" syndrome. People need to give others the impression that they are scary and irrational so that others behave.... that's what the necons did for 8 years...	Dec 19 11:33
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oiaohm	http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2008/05/metal_storm_works_on_irobot.html The robot cannon that killed soliders was very much a pet. Look at this one notzed	Dec 19 11:33
phIRCe-local	Title: Metal Storm iRobot - Metal Storm works on iRobot .::. Size~: 34.09 KB	Dec 19 11:34
notzed	well you're at last allowed to bring tweezers on australian flights. but they're stepping up the security checks or something.	Dec 19 11:34
schestowitz	putin said about bush that he is 'totally out of control"	Dec 19 11:34
schestowitz	He knew what he was talking about, I reckon	Dec 19 11:34
schestowitz	There was also the programme to control space (orbits)	Dec 19 11:34
schestowitz	notzed: who needs tweezers? You have fist	Dec 19 11:35
oiaohm	Not all flights notzed.	Dec 19 11:35
schestowitz	They should remove fist or remove fingernails before each flight	Dec 19 11:35
oiaohm	It dependant on aircraft design.	Dec 19 11:35
*Omar87 (n=quassel@94.249.88.136) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 19 11:35
oiaohm	If tweezers could be used to get at electronics.	Dec 19 11:35
schestowitz	"Excuse me maddam... I see we have not removed your fingernails, why don't you come with us to the back?"	Dec 19 11:35
notzed	i dunno, there was a big box of tweezers before the xray line	Dec 19 11:36
oiaohm	Its a common item with medical dressings notzed	Dec 19 11:36
schestowitz	Maybe they want to recycle some metal	Dec 19 11:36
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oiaohm	Metal or plastic.	Dec 19 11:36
oiaohm	Plastic ones are found with medical dressings.	Dec 19 11:37
notzed	well of course i'm talking about metal ones.	Dec 19 11:37
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oiaohm	Items I have lost on flights. My keyring sissors. My keyring pliers my keyring screwdrivers.	Dec 19 11:39
oiaohm	So far not a pair of tweesers yet.	Dec 19 11:39
notzed	lost or taken? maybe they just didn't see it	Dec 19 11:41
oiaohm	taken notzed	Dec 19 11:42
oiaohm	Thinking I am a computer tech/network admin they are all useful items.	Dec 19 11:42
cubezzz	laptop with nmap? :-0	Dec 19 11:43
notzed	"All cutting implements (such as knives, pocket knives, scissors, etc.) and sharp objects (nail clippers, nail files, tweezers, etc.) are prohibited items in the aircraft cabin."	Dec 19 11:43
cubezzz	could be an evil cracker!	Dec 19 11:43
notzed	http://www.canberraairport.com.au/air_terminal/security.cfm	Dec 19 11:43
phIRCe-local	Title: Canberra Airport - Security .::. Size~: 11.85 KB	Dec 19 11:43
notzed	friggan hard to find any of the old info, just about the new changes	Dec 19 11:43
cubezzz	yeah, I haven't flown in a long time	Dec 19 11:44
cubezzz	I have crossed the US border once since 9/11	Dec 19 11:44
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cubezzz	but really the Detroit crossing they were always pretty mean, even before 9/11	Dec 19 11:45
oiaohm	You will not notzed for the simple reason hutting down and getting rid of the old information when it comes to aircraft safty is very systemmatic	Dec 19 11:45
cubezzz	"Mandatory use of Open Standards in Hungary" <- sounds very promising	Dec 19 11:46
notzed	well google kept showing me news stories, not airport/airline/govt sites	Dec 19 11:46
oiaohm	notzed: They go as far as requesting google remove caches of out of date version.	Dec 19 11:47
notzed	it's just harder to find stuff in general lately, too high snr	Dec 19 11:47
notzed	it didn't even show the new version, just useless NEWS stories about it	Dec 19 11:47
cubezzz	there's a lot of duplication	Dec 19 11:47
notzed	and yahoo questions	Dec 19 11:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Getting used to my new netbook, will do a couple of blogs posts later. I'm also now ThistleWind on IRC, in honour of Rincewind lol		Dec 19 11:47
*cubezzz remembers the text based internet		Dec 19 11:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] "Rincewind was happy to be a racist. 100 meters, sprint, he'd raced them all." - Discworld		Dec 19 11:48
notzed	cubezz: well one thing hasn't changed, it's still good at wasting lots of time	Dec 19 11:52
schestowitz	cubezzz: source for that news from Hungary? MinceR might be interested	Dec 19 11:55
cubezzz	it's a current article on slashdot	Dec 19 11:55
cubezzz	just a sec	Dec 19 11:55
schestowitz	http://arebentisch.wordpress.com/2009/12/18/when-legalese-makes/	Dec 19 11:55
phIRCe-local	Title: When legalese becomes fun « SkÃ¶ne Oke .::. Size~: 15.72 KB	Dec 19 11:55
schestowitz	BTW, Novell loses Linux focus, which is good. It's like Xandros.. maybe they'll just leave after failing with "Microsoft Linux"	Dec 19 11:56
schestowitz	SUSE bloggers are even writing about other distros. http://www.benkevan.com/blog/installing-ubuntu-9-10-walk-through-%e2%80%93-virtualbox/	Dec 19 11:56
phIRCe-local	Title: Installing Ubuntu 9.10 Walk Through – VirtualBox \| Ben Kevan's Blog .::. Size~: 58.76 KB	Dec 19 11:56
cubezzz	the FOSS guys aren't going to go with OpenSuse I don't think	Dec 19 11:57
cubezzz	in general	Dec 19 11:58
cubezzz	ok.. here it is...	Dec 19 11:58
cubezzz	http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/12/18/2123215/Mandatory-Use-of-Open-Standards-In-Hungary?art_pos=1	Dec 19 11:59
phIRCe-local	Title: Slashdot Your Rights Online Story \| Mandatory Use of Open Standards In Hungary .::. Size~: 146.74 KB	Dec 19 11:59
notzed	i don't think suse workers were ever very happy with novell buying them	Dec 19 11:59
cubezzz	which distro would you rather support? :)	Dec 19 12:01
cubezzz	Fedora, Debian, or.... OpenSuse	Dec 19 12:01
cubezzz	lots of choices anyway	Dec 19 12:02
kecskebak	The Hungarian move seems to be largely sponsered by utility companies.	Dec 19 12:02
kecskebak	They often get shafted by vendor lock-in from people like SAP	Dec 19 12:03
kecskebak	So I suppose it makes sense	Dec 19 12:03
notzed	i don't really like them much, they're using the same software which only seems to stay at the slightly stable stage - every time a piece of software becomes stable it slows development, and that's the death of being included in a distro for any gui tool	Dec 19 12:03
kecskebak	http://nyissz.hu/rolunk/partnerek/ - the sponsers of the bill sponsor are here	Dec 19 12:03
phIRCe-local	Title: NyÃlt SzabvÃ¡ny SzÃ¶vetsÃ©g » Partnerek .::. Size~: 28.01 KB	Dec 19 12:03
cubezzz	I still upgrade some stuff on FC1	Dec 19 12:05
cubezzz	there's some older stuff that doesn't work on newer Linux	Dec 19 12:05
cubezzz	including some games	Dec 19 12:05
notzed	i kept redhat 9 for years when i was at ximian. i found the old hard drive a few weeks ago and bloody hell it was quick. wiped it since mind you	Dec 19 12:06
notzed	i think it had netscape 4.7!	Dec 19 12:06
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cubezzz	well if an app works well and it does everything you want then there's no big reason to upgrade	Dec 19 12:10
oiaohm	Secuirty for some apps is important cubezzz	Dec 19 12:11
notzed	but new apps use all the latest libraries. it gets to the point you end up recompiling too much shit for it to be practical. and there's security.	Dec 19 12:11
cubezzz	older games, with no source, kind of tricky to get them to work with new linux	Dec 19 12:13
cubezzz	I'm thinking of old loki games mostly	Dec 19 12:13
notzed	i don't like playing games on a pc. but it demonstrates the point of the continual moving target of a 'distro'	Dec 19 12:15
cubezzz	I've seen the source code for some games and it would be a ton of work to get them to work with Fedora 12 or something new	Dec 19 12:15
oiaohm	Old loki games are not that hard.	Dec 19 12:15
oiaohm	chroot is really helpful.	Dec 19 12:16
cubezzz	I never did get to play a network game of rt2 :)	Dec 19 12:16
cubezzz	yeah there's probably always a way to get stuff to work if you are patience	Dec 19 12:17
cubezzz	patient	Dec 19 12:18
oiaohm	debian stunt. Install the right version debain in a chroot for the age application cubezzz	Dec 19 12:18
oiaohm	Then use that to run application	Dec 19 12:18
cubezzz	that video is funny schestowitz :)	Dec 19 12:18
*schestowitz watches http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2541736281918823479#		Dec 19 12:19
phIRCe-local	Title: Copyright regime vs. civil liberties .::. Size~: 39.9 KB	Dec 19 12:19
*TheMadHatter (i=63ee03e6@gateway/web/freenode/x-jjrkmlgtbvvpqcjv) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 19 12:20
cubezzz	then he says at the end "it's just embarassing, I'm glad I'm gone"	Dec 19 12:20
TheMadHatter	Did I miss something good?	Dec 19 12:21
amarsh04	are you in Adelaide notzed?	Dec 19 12:21
cubezzz	oh yeah :)	Dec 19 12:21
schestowitz	Hey, TheMadHatter	Dec 19 12:21
notzed	yep	Dec 19 12:21
TheMadHatter	Hey Roy, got a good one for you:	Dec 19 12:21
TheMadHatter	http://vactruth.com/2009/12/05/big-pharma%E2%80%99s-crime-spree/	Dec 19 12:21
phIRCe-local	Title: BIG PHARMA’S CRIME SPREE \| vactruth.com .::. Size~: 65.76 KB	Dec 19 12:22
TheMadHatter	Big Pharma Crime Spree	Dec 19 12:22
*Omar87 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))		Dec 19 12:22
schestowitz	TheMadHatter: pharma should be antionalised	Dec 19 12:23
notzed	oh dear anti vaccer site	Dec 19 12:24
schestowitz	Only this way they would address the needs of people	Dec 19 12:24
schestowitz	Life, not profit	Dec 19 12:24
schestowitz	Right now they are driven by profit, not needs	Dec 19 12:24
schestowitz	And they abuse patents	Dec 19 12:24
*ThistleWind has quit ("Lost terminal")		Dec 19 12:24
schestowitz	On biology, life, etc.	Dec 19 12:24
TheMadHatter	That story is related to this:	Dec 19 12:24
TheMadHatter	http://www.huffingtonpost.com/erika-milvy/possible-ms-breakthrough_b_396448.html	Dec 19 12:25
phIRCe-local	Title: Erika Milvy: Possible MS Breakthrough Neglected By American Media .::. Size~: 205.12 KB	Dec 19 12:25
TheMadHatter	After all, who owns the American Media?	Dec 19 12:25
schestowitz	The owners of the country	Dec 19 12:26
TheMadHatter	And here's another one:	Dec 19 12:26
TheMadHatter	http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2009/12/03/say-no-to-patent-sharing-in-wake-of-global-warming-fraud/id=7563/	Dec 19 12:26
phIRCe-local	Title: Say NO to Patent Sharing in Wake of Global Warming Fraud \| IPWatchdog.com \| Patents & Patent Law .::. Size~: 295.92 KB	Dec 19 12:26
schestowitz	Oh, that stupid thug Gene	Dec 19 12:27
schestowitz	I hate him	Dec 19 12:27
TheMadHatter	Totally seperate topic. Gene Quinn thanks that because he's a lawyer, he is capable of evaluating Climate Change (or at least that's what I think he thinks, he's been very unclear)	Dec 19 12:28
schestowitz	No, he's an idiot	Dec 19 12:29
schestowitz	See what he wrote before	Dec 19 12:29
schestowitz	He's an arse in general	Dec 19 12:29
notzed	hmm, medicine is tricky. you need proper trials and tests for efficiacy. wild claims aren't differentiable from snake oil otherwise.	Dec 19 12:30
notzed	(but that never seems to stop the media reporting it normally)	Dec 19 12:32
kecskebak	Ben Goldacre's Bad Science site is excellent for a discussion of these issues	Dec 19 12:34
kecskebak	http://www.badscience.net/	Dec 19 12:35
phIRCe-local	Title: Bad Science .::. Size~: 62.54 KB	Dec 19 12:35
notzed	yeah it's very good, although he does get a little stuck on some issues obviuosly dear to his heart sometimes	Dec 19 12:35
fewa	like the pfizer published "medical jounal"	Dec 19 12:35
oiaohm	Lot don't want to deal with the known issues of global dimming.	Dec 19 12:36
fewa	oiaohm, nice term	Dec 19 12:36
fewa	sums up both issues	Dec 19 12:36
fewa	tightly related	Dec 19 12:36
kecskebak	His rant against Brain Gym seems to have paid off.	Dec 19 12:36
notzed	"Diarrhoea and Aids for Christmas" great headline	Dec 19 12:37
cubezzz	I got my comment banned on a mac ad :)	Dec 19 12:39
cubezzz	oh well	Dec 19 12:39
kecskebak	The GM post is interesting - about disappearing data	Dec 19 12:39
kecskebak	http://www.badscience.net/2009/12/criticising-the-gm-industry/	Dec 19 12:39
phIRCe-local	Title: Criticising the GM industry Bad Science .::. Size~: 58 KB	Dec 19 12:39
cubezzz	people don't like it when I point out they used closed source	Dec 19 12:39
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oiaohm	fewa: global dimming is measable many ways fewa	Dec 19 12:41
fewa	economic, energetic, ecologic	Dec 19 12:41
oiaohm	global dimming causes reduced evaporation.	Dec 19 12:42
fewa	oh, your talking literal dimming of the atmosphere	Dec 19 12:42
fewa	the ozone hole does the opposite	Dec 19 12:42
fewa	main thing effecting evaporation is deforestation	Dec 19 12:43
fewa	which accelerates dessertification	Dec 19 12:43
notzed	i think he was talking about how easy it is to measure?	Dec 19 12:44
oiaohm	Funny enough sep 11 proved that jets are also effecting evaporation fewa by there trails reducing light to earth.	Dec 19 12:44
oiaohm	notzed: evaporation pans notzed.	Dec 19 12:44
oiaohm	Extreamly simple to messure.	Dec 19 12:44
TheMadHatter	Yeah, Sep 11 also proved that we live in a noisy world.	Dec 19 12:49
TheMadHatter	The days after were incredibly silent and peaceful during the "No Fly" period.	Dec 19 12:49
TheMadHatter	I was working about 3 miles from Pearson International Airport at the time.	Dec 19 12:50
oiaohm	Also strikes in particular sections of worlds also have show effects from partical polution. On the eveporation pans.	Dec 19 12:50
TheMadHatter	CLimate Change trends show that Asia is warming faster than it should from the CO2 emissions.	Dec 19 12:51
notzed	apparently soot is to blame	Dec 19 12:51
oiaohm	soot as a lot of interesting effects.	Dec 19 12:52
TheMadHatter	A further set of tests showed that the problem was the large amount of particulate emissions from coal fired genstations and trucks. The particulate changed the albedo of the atmosphere, causing a temperature rise.	Dec 19 12:52
oiaohm	Not directly TheMadHatter	Dec 19 12:52
oiaohm	Only.	Dec 19 12:52
oiaohm	Less evaportion less clouds.	Dec 19 12:53
TheMadHatter	Actually more clouds	Dec 19 12:53
notzed	i thought the soot itself warms the air around it too?	Dec 19 12:53
oiaohm	Clouds of what TheMadHatter	Dec 19 12:54
notzed	provides crystalisation points for cloud formation	Dec 19 12:54
TheMadHatter	Particulate forms the seed for water droplets, which is why in Shanghai you don't see the Sun most days.	Dec 19 12:54
oiaohm	Cloud formation will happen natural due to natrual levels of particuals adding more don't help.	Dec 19 12:54
TheMadHatter	Particulate also comes from burning rice fields, which is done after the harvest is complete.	Dec 19 12:55
notzed	http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=subcontinental-smut-himalayas	Dec 19 12:55
phIRCe-local	Title: Subcontinental Smut: Is Soot the Culprit Behind Melting Himalayan Glaciers?: Scientific American .::. Size~: 96.58 KB	Dec 19 12:55
oiaohm	Once you add to many particuals you still get clouds but containing less watter.	Dec 19 12:55
oiaohm	So no rain.	Dec 19 12:55
oiaohm	You break the cycle so leading to a lot of problems including disappearing ice.	Dec 19 12:55
TheMadHatter	Right. No rain. No Sun. Awful fucking climate.	Dec 19 12:55
oiaohm	Ice fields depend on being replenished.	Dec 19 12:56
oiaohm	No evaporation no snow. = no ice fields in time because they will melt and not be replaced.	Dec 19 12:56
TheMadHatter	You end up spitting out phelgm all day long, and it's a blackish-yellow.	Dec 19 12:56
TheMadHatter	Great place not to visit.	Dec 19 12:56
oiaohm	Global dimming is far more dangous than global warming.	Dec 19 12:57
notzed	i'm not sure tuvalu would agree there ;-)	Dec 19 12:58
fewa	not really	Dec 19 12:58
fewa	cause the only cause you have pointed to is jet trails	Dec 19 12:58
fewa	you stop flying jets tomarrow and it goes away within a month	Dec 19 12:58
oiaohm	That is only 1 section of it fewa	Dec 19 12:59
fewa	its not so simply to just poof, remove 190 ppm CO2 from the atmosphere to restore it to where it was only 100 years ago	Dec 19 12:59
fewa	after 10,000+ years of being < 200 ppm	Dec 19 12:59
fewa	and it is now 380 ppm	Dec 19 12:59
oiaohm	Nature can deal with problem if its systems are not being screwed up fewa	Dec 19 12:59
Omar87_	So, this year's ImagineCuff well begin soon, huh?	Dec 19 13:00
oiaohm	Normally global warmming will lead to higher rainfall so leading to higher plant growth so taking up large ammounts of the C02	Dec 19 13:00
fewa	oiaohm, it is screwing with nature to put billions on tones of carbon into the air that has been barried millions of miles below the ground for millenia?	Dec 19 13:00
oiaohm	We are double hitting fewa	Dec 19 13:00
fewa	also, its not just warming, its much more accurate to call it simply climate change	Dec 19 13:01
oiaohm	We are screwing up evaporation so jaming the systems normal responce to co2	Dec 19 13:01
notzed	`nature' will survive, it just might not be such a nice place for us anymore	Dec 19 13:01
fewa	notzed, agreed	Dec 19 13:01
oiaohm	Natures systems will take back over when we are gone.	Dec 19 13:01
fewa	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzMEEw	Dec 19 13:01
fewa	(George Carlin - Saving the Planet)	Dec 19 13:02
oiaohm	Now if we smart we will get out natures way were we can.	Dec 19 13:02
fewa	I'm not worried about nature	Dec 19 13:02
oiaohm	Putting particles in the are jamming evaporation systems.	Dec 19 13:03
fewa	its so arrogent	Dec 19 13:03
oiaohm	Warming and cooling of the earth has happened many times over fewa	Dec 19 13:04
TheMadHatter	Or maybe we just move somewhere else.	Dec 19 13:04
TheMadHatter	L5 looks nice.	Dec 19 13:05
oiaohm	Nature allowed will correct global warming with plants. All we have to be is smart and stop getting in its way fewa	Dec 19 13:06
fewa	oiaohm, yes, if by "correct" you mean shift about wildly (according to human perspective) for a few tens of thousands of years	Dec 19 13:07
fewa	Carlin says it best	Dec 19 13:08
oiaohm	Really its not wildly.	Dec 19 13:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Younger teen put the Christmas decorations up. Freda is WAY EXCITED at the tree!		Dec 19 13:09
fewa	i said from a human perspective	Dec 19 13:12
fewa	you should read about what they can see in those Greenland ice cores	Dec 19 13:13
*Eruaran (n=Ubuntu91@CPE-124-180-202-208.lns7.lon.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 19 13:13
Eruaran	hey guys	Dec 19 13:13
fewa	the last 2500 years is remarkable for how extremely moderate it is	Dec 19 13:13
Eruaran	finally got around to putting Ubuntu on this USB	Dec 19 13:14
notzed	enouhg of this doomsayer talk, australia is about to get it's first saint! aren't we lucky!	Dec 19 13:15
notzed	(groan)	Dec 19 13:15
fewa	oiaohm is really being an anti-doomsayer	Dec 19 13:16
notzed	yeah but it isn't working, we're doomed. carbon will keep increasing, the deforestation will keep accelerating, the seas will acidify, the population will keep growing etc etc. some people will keep living, but it's really peak civilisation or so.	Dec 19 13:17
oiaohm	Only can acidify if light is blocked notzed	Dec 19 13:18
*zer0c00l (n=user@117.199.137.72) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 19 13:18
oiaohm	Other wise natural systems will counter notzed	Dec 19 13:19
Eruaran	Hello zer0c00l	Dec 19 13:19
notzed	like algal blooms?	Dec 19 13:19
zer0c00l	Eruaran: hello	Dec 19 13:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OpenSUSE Gets the #KDE Vote, OpenDesktop.org-Build Service Integration 3 http://bit.ly/6YIY6C		Dec 19 13:20
phIRCe-local	Title: Novell News Summary Part I: OpenSUSE Gets the KDE Vote, OpenDesktop.org-Build Service Integration \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 111.01 KB	Dec 19 13:20
oiaohm	algal blooms is one of the natural counters notzed	Dec 19 13:21
fewa	not really	Dec 19 13:22
fewa	they eat up the oxogen in the water and kill all the higher organisms	Dec 19 13:22
fewa	and they usually happen in shallow waters	Dec 19 13:23
fewa	so then the algae dies, falls to the bottom, and removes that oxogen from the water, and the CO2 bubbles up to the surface	Dec 19 13:23
fewa	meanwhile acidifying the water	Dec 19 13:23
oiaohm	Depends on the algae	Dec 19 13:24
fewa	that is what happens in a bloom	Dec 19 13:24
fewa	but blooms are not really a problem without inversions (el nino, etc) or fertilizer runoffs	Dec 19 13:24
oiaohm	Fun part high co2 in the water blocks most forms of algae.	Dec 19 13:24
fewa	then its already run its course	Dec 19 13:24
fewa	and high CO2 does far woorse	Dec 19 13:25
fewa	like kill the corel	Dec 19 13:25
oiaohm	Yes that has happened before fewa	Dec 19 13:25
fewa	which sustains huge ecosystems	Dec 19 13:25
notzed	it would be a lot more fascinating to watch if it wasn't a movie we're in	Dec 19 13:26
oiaohm	What will the death of those ecosystems feed fewa	Dec 19 13:26
fewa	notzed, agreed	Dec 19 13:26
fewa	oiaohm, not much at all, it will just decompose	Dec 19 13:26
fewa	salt water ecosystems are very much dependant on washed up nutrients, dissolved oxygen, and warmth	Dec 19 13:27
fewa	its only a few places in the ocean that support much life at all	Dec 19 13:27
fewa	Eritis sicut deus scientes bonum et malum.	Dec 19 13:28
fewa	generally near shallow drop off coasts, and in gulf streamand similar currents	Dec 19 13:29
fewa	and to thing that only 50 years ago many thought the oceans just kept getting deeper and deeper	Dec 19 13:30
fewa	or maybe a little earlier	Dec 19 13:33
oiaohm	Note seaweed most types are not effected by high co2 fewa	Dec 19 13:36
fewa	*acidity	Dec 19 13:36
oiaohm	the acidity is not harmful to them.	Dec 19 13:36
fewa	most the things in the coean, yes	Dec 19 13:36
fewa	it is the acidity of CO2 that makes it harmful	Dec 19 13:37
fewa	otherwise it is innocous	Dec 19 13:37
fewa	and is in very low concentrations compared to O2, etc	Dec 19 13:37
fewa	which are much more reactive	Dec 19 13:37
oiaohm	seawead is like most land based plants grow better the higher the co2	Dec 19 13:37
fewa	oiaohm, most water plants get their CO2 out of the air, not the water	Dec 19 13:38
fewa	the plankton grows on the surface	Dec 19 13:38
oiaohm	Guess where the exceptions are to that rule fewa	Dec 19 13:39
fewa	so its more direct to refer to the acidification of the ocean	Dec 19 13:39
fewa	not its CO2 concentration	Dec 19 13:39
oiaohm	Nature has done the flip around in the past to high amounts of seawead low ammounts of coral and back again.	Dec 19 13:40
oiaohm	Last time was caused by a metorrite hitting a coal field.	Dec 19 13:41
fewa	I've never seen seaweed in the open ocean	Dec 19 13:41
fewa	or kelp	Dec 19 13:42
fewa	or ell grass	Dec 19 13:42
oiaohm	They can be found on the floating rafts of material in the sea fewa	Dec 19 13:45
fewa	dead or alive?	Dec 19 13:46
oiaohm	Alive	Dec 19 13:46
oiaohm	Normally like connect to dead logs and shipping containers and other items floating around out there.	Dec 19 13:46
fewa	plastic bags	Dec 19 13:48
oiaohm	Nop	Dec 19 13:49
oiaohm	For some reason they don't connect to plastic	Dec 19 13:49
fewa	then the bags just go to antartica	Dec 19 13:49
oiaohm	Basically plasic bags so far have no useful use in sea.	Dec 19 13:51
notzed	the central northern pacific i thought	Dec 19 13:51
fewa	"useful use"	Dec 19 13:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Watching Lazy Town with Sam. Noticed a Linux boot screen in background. Turns out it's debian :) http://bit.ly/6NlXYb		Dec 19 13:51
phIRCe-local	Title: Pixel - LazyWiki .::. Size~: 20.62 KB	Dec 19 13:51
fewa	there are not many ways plastic bags are useful at all	Dec 19 13:51
fewa	the city of san francisco banned them in their entirety	Dec 19 13:51
fewa	the shopping type	Dec 19 13:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] LOL! RT @iyermatter: Journalist to new BJP chief : "Sir under you will the party go from strength to strength?"		Dec 19 13:52
oiaohm	Here they are still around but plastics that will break down. fewa	Dec 19 13:52
oiaohm	That can get fun at times particularly if you get your stuff from shop in old stock bags.	Dec 19 13:53
fewa	yes, bioplastics	Dec 19 13:53
notzed	i read something about the 'break down' plastics. UV just makes the polymers break into shorter bits. but they're still polymers. they don't decompose, just get finer	Dec 19 13:53
notzed	well that's one type anyway	Dec 19 13:53
fewa	these are really cool: http://www.natashascafe.com/html/bag.html	Dec 19 13:53
phIRCe-local	Title: Russian String Bag .::. Size~: 6.41 KB	Dec 19 13:53
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fewa	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perhaps-bag	Dec 19 13:54
phIRCe-local	Title: Perhaps-bag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 20.8 KB	Dec 19 13:54
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*notzed has a flashback of the 'string shortage' goodies episode		Dec 19 13:54
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shreddar	Does anyone know if that Bing guy was for real or not, yet?	Dec 19 13:55
Eruaran	Bing guy ?	Dec 19 14:03
Eruaran	Did I miss something ?	Dec 19 14:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @svaradarajan: Text of 'The Copenhagen Accord' finalised by the US, Brazil, India, South Africa and China \| http://bit.ly/6NLp4B #cop15		Dec 19 14:03
shreddar	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GM4Lt5k24s&feature=player_embedded	Dec 19 14:04
shreddar	Eruaran, Where have you been? Bing!	Dec 19 14:05
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notzed	it's a great video, even if it isn't real	Dec 19 14:10
shreddar	Yeah, I've watched it like 20 times already and haven't tired of it.	Dec 19 14:14
Eruaran	thx shreddar	Dec 19 14:14
Eruaran	it has the feel of real about it	Dec 19 14:15
Eruaran	the scene he paints is just Ballmerish crazy enough to be real	Dec 19 14:15
notzed	but that'd be the genius if it wasn't	Dec 19 14:15
Eruaran	they believe their own vaporware hype you know	Dec 19 14:15
cubezzz	yeah I think it's real	Dec 19 14:16
Eruaran	they got our company director all revved up over WinMo 7 at a conference a few months ago	Dec 19 14:16
Eruaran	Same kind of hype	Dec 19 14:16
cubezzz	I think he's a sociopath	Dec 19 14:16
cubezzz	re: Ballmer	Dec 19 14:16
notzed	Novell were a bit cultish like that too. It was a bit offputting	Dec 19 14:17
Eruaran	M$ is already making noises about WinMo7 as coming out "end of 2010" now instead of early or mid... no surprise	Dec 19 14:17
Eruaran	Our company director was so difficult to talk to after the brainwashing conference that we had to speak to his wife instead: "It's not going to happen Betty !" - "what ? why ?" - "One word: Android"	Dec 19 14:18
oiaohm	Eruaran: By the time WinMo7 comes out the market for it could be gone.	Dec 19 14:18
fewa	Win 8	Dec 19 14:18
fewa	in 128 bits :P	Dec 19 14:18
fewa	or maybe the Zilog 80 platform :P	Dec 19 14:19
Eruaran	per second ?	Dec 19 14:19
cubezzz	"In 2005, Mark Lucovsky alleged in a sworn statement to a Washington state court that Ballmer became highly enraged upon hearing that Lucovsky was about to leave Microsoft for Google, picked up his chair, and threw it across his office."	Dec 19 14:19
shreddar	I bet WinMo7 will be the most advance browser based OS ever. They might even rename it Bing OS because they are so innovative.	Dec 19 14:19
Eruaran	haha	Dec 19 14:19
notzed	did it go bing when it hit the wall?	Dec 19 14:19
Eruaran	shreddar, I think you just struck gold, "Bing OS"... oh yes, I can see that happening	Dec 19 14:19
notzed	sounds like dog food	Dec 19 14:20
cubezzz	I think they really mean "Ka-ching"	Dec 19 14:20
Eruaran	I noticed Microsoft picked up the scent of the social desktop (mostly from the KDE community)... so they have started feeding folks vaporware hints about this really innovative concept their working on... guess what its called...	Dec 19 14:21
notzed	security?	Dec 19 14:22
oiaohm	Live	Dec 19 14:22
Eruaran	notzed, they call it... the Social Desktop	Dec 19 14:22
cubezzz	most people don't really understand the whole FOSS movement I've noticed	Dec 19 14:22
notzed	which is?	Dec 19 14:23
cubezzz	when I talk about it, I get a lot of blank stares	Dec 19 14:23
Eruaran	Most people don't understand "can you start up your web browser and type this into your address bar"	Dec 19 14:23
cubezzz	they are really mostly helpless	Dec 19 14:24
Eruaran	I think Ubuntu should ditch Totem for VLC	Dec 19 14:24
Eruaran	I change the default movie player from Totem to VLC for people all the time... Totem just doesn't cut it	Dec 19 14:25
cubezzz	if I talk about "freedom of thought" most people understand that	Dec 19 14:25
cubezzz	but if I say "I really like FOSS" I have to explain a lot of stuff	Dec 19 14:25
cubezzz	more people programmed for fun in the past	Dec 19 14:27
cubezzz	that's the sad part	Dec 19 14:27
notzed	'foss' is a pretty meaningless non-word	Dec 19 14:27
cubezzz	tons of folks played around with c64's and vic-20s and ataris with BASIC	Dec 19 14:27
Eruaran	Admiral Akbar on Mono: "IT'S A TRAP!"	Dec 19 14:27
Eruaran	I know someone who has an Atari 1040ST in mint condition.	Dec 19 14:28
notzed	cubezzz: kids these days aren't entertained unless there's a movie to watch. a real 'consumer', just how the 'producers' like it	Dec 19 14:28
cubezzz	windows killed the hobbyist programmer notzed	Dec 19 14:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Family (inlaws) xmas party today at the home of Goblin....oh dear :( I wonder if I can get rid before 10pm?		Dec 19 14:28
Eruaran	I walked into his living room one evening and it was on the floor in front of the TV... it looked brand spanking new	Dec 19 14:28
notzed	it's really trained in from an early age now.	Dec 19 14:29
Eruaran	I said, "Did I just walk through a time vortex ?"	Dec 19 14:29
Eruaran	"that looks new !"	Dec 19 14:29
Eruaran	He said, "well it basically is"	Dec 19 14:29
cubezzz	it wasn't that long ago :)	Dec 19 14:29
Eruaran	he got it at a garage sale	Dec 19 14:29
cubezzz	remember Commodore Pets? :)	Dec 19 14:29
Eruaran	The original owner only used it once, didn't like it, packed it up and put it in the attic where it sat for over 20 years	Dec 19 14:30
notzed	cubezz: software has got much more complicated. it's overwhelming. back when you had a text adventure game you could just type one in in basic, even if it only had a couple of rooms	Dec 19 14:30
cubezzz	people don't seem to use BASIC at all now	Dec 19 14:30
Eruaran	Microsoft approached Jack Tramiel once. They wanted to license Windows to Atari.	Dec 19 14:31
cubezzz	wow really? I didn't know that	Dec 19 14:31
Eruaran	Old Jack was smarter than the PC makers were	Dec 19 14:31
Eruaran	yes	Dec 19 14:31
Eruaran	This was his response:	Dec 19 14:31
Eruaran	"I'm already married"	Dec 19 14:31
cubezzz	he's still alive I think	Dec 19 14:31
notzed	i was learning basic in primary school, kids these days learn 'word' and 'excel'	Dec 19 14:31
cubezzz	he's a smart old coot :)	Dec 19 14:31
cubezzz	that's a shame :-/	Dec 19 14:32
cubezzz	I'm glad I came before those days	Dec 19 14:32
Eruaran	Kids in school today are not even taught how to save a "Word document" into another format.	Dec 19 14:33
cubezzz	was Windows ever on anything non x86?	Dec 19 14:33
Eruaran	Alpha	Dec 19 14:33
notzed	mips?	Dec 19 14:33
Eruaran	DEC Alpha	Dec 19 14:33
cubezzz	what was that, some version of NT?	Dec 19 14:33
Eruaran	But that was part of a court settlement I think ;)	Dec 19 14:33
Eruaran	yes it was NT	Dec 19 14:34
cubezzz	that makes ARM stuf all the more interesting, because of this WinTel majority	Dec 19 14:34
notzed	ahh MIPS, Alpha and even power pc	Dec 19 14:34
cubezzz	none of the non x86 systems survived I don't think	Dec 19 14:34
cubezzz	as PCs	Dec 19 14:34
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Eruaran	I think ARM might have a big future	Dec 19 14:35
cubezzz	I've got old zaurus and arm based routers, everything else is x86	Dec 19 14:35
cubezzz	right, right NT 3.1 to 4.0 had PowerPC, DEC Alpha and MIPS R4000	Dec 19 14:36
cubezzz	what happened to that I wonder	Dec 19 14:37
Eruaran	wintel	Dec 19 14:37
cubezzz	wintel is more dominating than I realized	Dec 19 14:37
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] "Oh it's OK I'll just upgrade it to Windows 7." Hollow laugh. http://is.gd/5tM8G		Dec 19 14:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] New Blog Post - The New Addition To The Digital Family \| The Digital Prism http://tinyurl.com/yal28x8		Dec 19 14:38
phIRCe-local	Title: Charlie's Diary: Why I don't (usually) use Windows .::. Size~: 128.47 KB	Dec 19 14:38
phIRCe-local	Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB	Dec 19 14:39
Eruaran	Microsoft are really biting the hand that feeds them now	Dec 19 14:39
cubezzz	Windows dropped Itanium I see	Dec 19 14:39
Eruaran	The discontinuation of XP Pro is near suicide	Dec 19 14:39
Eruaran	We've got medium/large corporate clients who are dependent on XP Pro and programs that run on XP that are a nightmare on Vista/7	Dec 19 14:40
Eruaran	Not do-able	Dec 19 14:40
Eruaran	When older PC's need to be replaced they are not "replacing" them they are "upgrading" them and using their current XP Pro license	Dec 19 14:41
oiaohm	Windows 7 has a emulated XP that works for some.	Dec 19 14:41
cubezzz	this is why I'm using older Linux for some machines btw	Dec 19 14:41
cubezzz	feature creep	Dec 19 14:41
cubezzz	the bloat on windows 7 is just ridiculous	Dec 19 14:41
oiaohm	I have others looking at wine and plan to move off windows completely Eruaran	Dec 19 14:42
cubezzz	I wrote a fair bit of msdos code so I use dosbox	Dec 19 14:42
cubezzz	sadly, I didn't find the time to port everything, but I will eventually	Dec 19 14:42
oiaohm	Personally I hate KMS licencing.	Dec 19 14:43
cubezzz	I'm off the doze, I've been off since early 2003	Dec 19 14:43
cubezzz	should have been sooner though	Dec 19 14:44
Eruaran	If Wine can handle things like Sage Handisoft, MapiLAB, Quickbooks, and MYOB without hassles - and I'm serious here - GNU/Linux can clean up in the business market	Dec 19 14:44
cubezzz	people chain themselves to Microsoft	Dec 19 14:44
Eruaran	Indeed	Dec 19 14:44
Eruaran	But Microsoft have broken the cardinal rule of customer lock-in	Dec 19 14:45
cubezzz	I will re-write A Christmas Carol tonight :)	Dec 19 14:45
Eruaran	A friend of mine is working for a company that is undertaking a slow transition away from Microsoft based tools	Dec 19 14:46
cubezzz	I thing was, in the "old days" I wasn't locked in at all	Dec 19 14:46
oiaohm	What rule Eruaran	Dec 19 14:46
cubezzz	I was doing three platforms: MS DOS, AmigaDOs and Unix System V	Dec 19 14:46
Eruaran	oiaohm, don't break compatibility	Dec 19 14:46
cubezzz	hmmm	Dec 19 14:47
oiaohm	MS has been breaking that for years Eruaran	Dec 19 14:47
Eruaran	oiaohm, they've really broken it now	Dec 19 14:47
oiaohm	Don't you remember windows 95 and dos applications Eruaran	Dec 19 14:47
cubezzz	well, it's just damned slow, windows 7 is slooooow	Dec 19 14:47
cubezzz	that's what stuck me the most	Dec 19 14:47
cubezzz	struck :)	Dec 19 14:47
cubezzz	it's stupid, gigs of ram and it's slow? come on	Dec 19 14:48
oiaohm	Remember for years MS did not have competitors.	Dec 19 14:48
Eruaran	oiaohm, yes but this seems to be more serious... after nearly a decade of Win XP, there are a lot of companies that are totally dependent on Win32 software - big opportuinty for Wine with Win32 support	Dec 19 14:48
oiaohm	MS is not use to working in a market with competitors.	Dec 19 14:48
oiaohm	While you don't have competors your lockin does not require you to remain compadible.	Dec 19 14:49
cubezzz	johnny come-latelys	Dec 19 14:49
oiaohm	Infact its better if you don't remain compadible Eruaran	Dec 19 14:49
oiaohm	To force people to buy more new stuff.	Dec 19 14:49
*notzed sure misses the amiga days. hobbies are more fun than jobs too.		Dec 19 14:49
oiaohm	Everything started going wrong for MS at Vista	Dec 19 14:50
notzed	being incompatible is the business model. sell a shiny new laptop to the boss and have a trickle-down effect as everyone has to read his or her words of wisdom	Dec 19 14:50
cubezzz	seriously notzed, I'm getting an Amiga again some day	Dec 19 14:51
Eruaran	The Amiga is a thing of beauty	Dec 19 14:51
Eruaran	To me the A1200 is the quintessential Amiga	Dec 19 14:51
cubezzz	AROS or Linux I think	Dec 19 14:51
cubezzz	Eruaran, go Amiga 4000 Tower	Dec 19 14:52
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notzed	i lost hope some time ago. i did a little (little) work on aros but that's about it.	Dec 19 14:52
Eruaran	I showed a friend a clip of someone multitasking on an A1200 circa early 90's	Dec 19 14:52
cubezzz	but I think you could run Linux on the 1200 right?	Dec 19 14:52
oiaohm	The issue really is the closed source model is showing its age.	Dec 19 14:52
Eruaran	oiaohm, I think you are right	Dec 19 14:52
oiaohm	Lot of goverments are waking up and demarding storage in open standard formats.	Dec 19 14:53
cubezzz	guys, there is still sporadic production of new boards	Dec 19 14:53
notzed	cubezz: with a cpu upgrade (for the mmu). really really slow	Dec 19 14:53
cubezzz	Amiga is not (completely) dead	Dec 19 14:53
cubezzz	hrmmm	Dec 19 14:53
cubezzz	ok, maybe not 1200 then	Dec 19 14:53
Eruaran	I forget who is was that's making boards for AmigaOS	Dec 19 14:53
oiaohm	Amiga still makes some Amiga machines Eruaran	Dec 19 14:54
notzed	someone makes an FPGA implementation of an A500 on a tiny card	Dec 19 14:54
Eruaran	they do ?	Dec 19 14:54
Eruaran	I thought they'd gone completely software	Dec 19 14:54
cubezzz	I seem to remember SAM boards?	Dec 19 14:54
Eruaran	that rings a bell	Dec 19 14:55
oiaohm	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam440	Dec 19 14:55
phIRCe-local	Title: Sam440ep - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 51.12 KB	Dec 19 14:55
oiaohm	Yep the only amiga board still in production.	Dec 19 14:55
cubezzz	right, I've seen those on ebay, expensive though	Dec 19 14:56
cubezzz	for the uber-hard core I guess	Dec 19 14:56
Eruaran	yeah that's the board I was thinking of	Dec 19 14:56
oiaohm	They are very power effective boards cubezzz	Dec 19 14:56
oiaohm	So loved for particular embedded jobs.	Dec 19 14:56
oiaohm	Unfortunarly jobs where price is not a issue.	Dec 19 14:57
oiaohm	Power usage and dependablity are.	Dec 19 14:57
Eruaran	Looks like you could fit one in a little Shuttle case	Dec 19 14:58
notzed	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimig	Dec 19 14:58
phIRCe-local	Title: Minimig - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 63.08 KB	Dec 19 14:58
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cubezzz	there's a minimig on ebay right now	Dec 19 14:59
cubezzz	$289 buy it now :)	Dec 19 14:59
cubezzz	http://cgi.ebay.com/MiniMig-FPGA-Case-Amiga-500-600-Emulator_W0QQitemZ160335774329QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2554c1c279	Dec 19 14:59
phIRCe-local	Title: MiniMig - FPGA + Case - Amiga 500 / 600 Emulator - eBay (item 160335774329 end time Jan-11-10 19:58:31 PST) .::. Size~: 61.61 KB	Dec 19 14:59
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cubezzz	kind of nice how Amiga still survives	Dec 19 14:59
oiaohm	http://www.hyperion-entertainment.biz/ New amigas might apear in 2010	Dec 19 14:59
oiaohm	There has been a few legal issues.	Dec 19 15:00
*zer0c00l` is now known as zer0c00l		Dec 19 15:01
cubezzz	I guess I could just run AROS on x86 right?	Dec 19 15:01
notzed	or just run uae ;-) it boots damn fast	Dec 19 15:02
oiaohm	AROS can run on it own kernel or on a Linux one.	Dec 19 15:02
cubezzz	ok, Minimig surprises me	Dec 19 15:03
Eruaran	would be nice to see the Amiga name properly revived	Dec 19 15:04
cubezzz	Amiga HDTV? :)	Dec 19 15:04
Eruaran	As long as it doesn't suck	Dec 19 15:04
Eruaran	If it sucked it would be like another Highlander sequel	Dec 19 15:04
Eruaran	I think using AmigaOS would be an uphill battle though	Dec 19 15:05
cubezzz	HighLander just wasn't supposed to have any sequels :)	Dec 19 15:05
Eruaran	true	Dec 19 15:05
oiaohm	and some of the highlander sequels are good.	Dec 19 15:06
Eruaran	blasphemy	Dec 19 15:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] New Blog Post - The New Addition To The Digital Family http://tinyurl.com/yal28x8		Dec 19 15:06
phIRCe-local	Title: The New Addition To The Digital Family \| The Digital Prism .::. Size~: 19.94 KB	Dec 19 15:06
oiaohm	Problem is when they don't know when to stop.	Dec 19 15:06
Eruaran	;)	Dec 19 15:06
notzed	it has not surpringly, aged somewhat. the system api's haven't been updated a lot, just some stuff for virtual memory and a few other bits and bobs, from what i remember when i was looking at aros	Dec 19 15:06
cubezzz	have you guys seen this:	Dec 19 15:06
cubezzz	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natami	Dec 19 15:06
phIRCe-local	Title: Natami - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 27.55 KB	Dec 19 15:06
Eruaran	hmm	Dec 19 15:09
Eruaran	small is interesting	Dec 19 15:09
Eruaran	I really like small things these days	Dec 19 15:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Now Etherpad is open source, any Debian/Ubuntu developers fancy packaging it in a deb? http://bit.ly/5QZSwA		Dec 19 15:09
Eruaran	in your pocket the future is, yes	Dec 19 15:09
Eruaran	speaking of small things	Dec 19 15:11
Eruaran	I'm running from my USB Ubuntu install right now	Dec 19 15:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] No decrease in illegal downloading, says BPI - More propaganda from the BBC http://tinyurl.com/yzm5xs8		Dec 19 15:12
phIRCe-local	Title: BBC News - No decrease in illegal downloading, says BPI .::. Size~: 48.15 KB	Dec 19 15:12
shreddar	It's it slow Eruaran?	Dec 19 15:12
Eruaran	no its fine	Dec 19 15:13
Eruaran	I don't notice any slowness at all	Dec 19 15:13
shreddar	How fast does it startup?	Dec 19 15:13
Eruaran	fast	Dec 19 15:14
notzed	usb flash or hdd?	Dec 19 15:14
Eruaran	the bios recognises it as a usb-hdd	Dec 19 15:14
shreddar	Did you have to make upgrade the bios or anything to get it to boot from the usb drive?	Dec 19 15:14
Eruaran	its just a normal Transcend 8GB USB key	Dec 19 15:14
Eruaran	no	Dec 19 15:15
Eruaran	bios on this system already supports boot from usb, most systems do now	Dec 19 15:15
notzed	all the old machines i would like to do that with don't boot off usb drives. they're rather old tho	Dec 19 15:15
Eruaran	between my USB key and portable hdd, I can turn anyone's PC into my PC in moments	Dec 19 15:16
notzed	on my beagleboard, the sd-card was pretty slow, usb flash was faster, but a usb hdd (old ps3 drive) was fastest	Dec 19 15:17
Eruaran	anyone who can boot USB that is	Dec 19 15:17
Eruaran	I like to read things like this, "Saving is Obsolete"	Dec 19 15:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] BBC News - George Lucas 'loses Stormtrooper legal fight' http://tinyurl.com/ycj87r8		Dec 19 15:19
phIRCe-local	Title: BBC News - George Lucas 'loses Stormtrooper legal fight' .::. Size~: 49.62 KB	Dec 19 15:19
Eruaran	George already has enough money	Dec 19 15:20
cubezzz	he's suing the guy that designed the originals?	Dec 19 15:21
shreddar	George lucas get income from copyright's and trademarks. Assets such as those are what make him rich.	Dec 19 15:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Work begins on documenting how to get Etherpad working on Ubuntu http://bit.ly/6n6fOk		Dec 19 15:22
cubezzz	"Mr Ainsworth was paid £35 for each helmet he made for the film in 1976"	Dec 19 15:22
phIRCe-local	Title: Installing Etherpad on Ubuntu - Ubuntu Wiki .::. Size~: 13.09 KB	Dec 19 15:22
fewa	a myth made him rich	Dec 19 15:22
cubezzz	you see how fair Lucas is? :)	Dec 19 15:22
fewa	those that can instill a myth can always gain employment	Dec 19 15:22
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection)		Dec 19 15:23
shreddar	But he doesn't have to gain employment because he's rich.	Dec 19 15:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Guardian book club, Terry Pratchett week four \| Books \| The Guardian http://tinyurl.com/y8mbnc5		Dec 19 15:23
Eruaran	You can't extend copyright as far as replica outfits...	Dec 19 15:24
shreddar	Not in Europe anyways.	Dec 19 15:24
Eruaran	That kind of silliness opens the door to all kinds of silliness... just like with software patents	Dec 19 15:24
fewa	thats irrelevent to the myth	Dec 19 15:24
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shreddar	Yep expecially now with the internet.	Dec 19 15:25
Eruaran	Can you imagine a costume shop being sued by Disney for making and hiring out Disney style Snow White costumes ?	Dec 19 15:26
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] At the risk of spamming Pratchett, I've found a video of his talk to the book club http://tinyurl.com/yb9d3jq		Dec 19 15:26
cubezzz	unfortunately yes	Dec 19 15:26
cubezzz	I can imagine it	Dec 19 15:26
Eruaran	How about charging Star Wars fans with copyright infringement for turning up at the premiere of Revenge Of The Sith dressed as Jedi and various other characters...	Dec 19 15:27
cubezzz	ok, maybe not that :)	Dec 19 15:27
Eruaran	What's the difference	Dec 19 15:28
cubezzz	they have to pay to see the premiere so Lucas gets money	Dec 19 15:28
Eruaran	How about suing ThinkGeek for selling those same fans the light sabres they brought with them	Dec 19 15:28
shreddar	Most of those intellectual monopolies are being enforced against customers now because they have the same power to redistribute that only companies had years ago.	Dec 19 15:28
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shreddar	Sadly it's standard in businesses to get assets such as copyrights and trademarks and patents in order to reduce risk from competition.	Dec 19 15:31
shreddar	They also reduce risk of going broke a little too.	Dec 19 15:32
shreddar	It's all about reducing risk for investors.	Dec 19 15:33
Eruaran	I've got a better idea	Dec 19 15:35
Eruaran	Instead of George resting on his laurels and trying to rake in money forever and a day from stuff he did more than 30 years ago, long before his hair turned grey, he could... MAKE NEW MOVIES ??	Dec 19 15:36
Eruaran	Maybe even something that's, not Star Wars or Indiana Jones...	Dec 19 15:37
Eruaran	What an innovative idea...	Dec 19 15:37
Eruaran	its just so crazy	Dec 19 15:37
shreddar	Star Wars was not that good. It's already showing it's age. IMO	Dec 19 15:38
shreddar	Now the Wizard of OZ that's timeless.	Dec 19 15:38
Eruaran	2001 has aged better	Dec 19 15:38
*zer0c00l is now known as zer0c00l\|brb		Dec 19 15:38
notzed	blade runner has aged very well.	Dec 19 15:39
Eruaran	I mean, 2001 had flat panel displays	Dec 19 15:39
Eruaran	I love Blade Runner	Dec 19 15:39
Eruaran	I have the final cut	Dec 19 15:39
shreddar	Yep 2001 and bladerunner didn't use muppets either.	Dec 19 15:39
Eruaran	lol	Dec 19 15:39
Eruaran	But to be fair... Star Wars is scifi/adventure really	Dec 19 15:40
shreddar	I like Star Wars as a kid but that was because Darth Vader was so cool.	Dec 19 15:41
Eruaran	an iconic villan	Dec 19 15:41
shreddar	I don't think he's as cool anymore. I think that might be because I know what going on in the movie now.	Dec 19 15:42
notzed	yeah but turning him into a whiny knob really did it in for vader	Dec 19 15:42
shreddar	That too	Dec 19 15:42
Eruaran	lol true	Dec 19 15:42
shreddar	Plus I thought he was black until the last movie	Dec 19 15:43
Eruaran	hehe	Dec 19 15:43
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Eruaran	I like the Vader Sessions on YouTube	Dec 19 15:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Bings got an iBug? – Problems with Bing on iPhone? http://tinyurl.com/yfk298r #bing #microsoft #windows #fail #vista #xp #apple #iphone		Dec 19 15:43
phIRCe-local	Title: Bings got an iBug? Problems with Bing on iPhone? « OPEN BYTES cave quid dicis, quando, et cui. .::. Size~: 36.77 KB	Dec 19 15:43
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Eruaran	I don't get why companies seem to treat Google as if its a monopoly and seem to run into the arms of a convicted monopolist in response... Nobody is locked in or forced to use Google... its quite bizarre that people lack this basic common sense	Dec 19 15:45
Eruaran	But, anyway, paying a truckload of money to Verizon to put Bing on Blackberries looks to me like the kind of stuipd money burning activity that will be the end of Microsoft... Someone needs to tell Ballmer, "dude, you're not supposed to pay people to use it, you're uhmm supposed to make money from it, like ads and stuff yknow ?"	Dec 19 15:48
shreddar	Well I'm forced to use Google because every other search engine suck but I hear ya.	Dec 19 15:48
Eruaran	Winning fair and square is just fine.	Dec 19 15:48
Eruaran	If you don't suck and everybody else does, you win and you deserve to win.	Dec 19 15:49
Eruaran	Nokia was once in that position.	Dec 19 15:49
shreddar	The reason microsoft is interested in search again is because of google.	Dec 19 15:50
shreddar	They see a threat from them like they did from netscape.	Dec 19 15:51
Eruaran	They're only half right.	Dec 19 15:51
shreddar	But unlike netscape they can't just offer a free search a put the out.	Dec 19 15:51
shreddar	All search is free.	Dec 19 15:51
notzed	all they can do is make it the default on the default browser most people use with their default os	Dec 19 15:52
Eruaran	They see only Google... I see an entire industry that's changing, paradigms changing	Dec 19 15:52
notzed	but since bing sucks so badly, they'll be forced to change anyway	Dec 19 15:52
Eruaran	Microsoft is not changing	Dec 19 15:52
Eruaran	Their tactics do not change	Dec 19 15:52
Eruaran	They are a dirty ratbag company that is destined to lose their dominance and eat what they've served to others for so long	Dec 19 15:54
Eruaran	Its not a matter of "if", it is only a matter of time	Dec 19 15:54
Eruaran	I might attend the next Ballmer talk that comes to town	Dec 19 15:55
Eruaran	If he dares to say anything about "intellectual property"	Dec 19 15:56
shreddar	Yeah they are already spending way to much and Windows in order to keep it dominate.	Dec 19 15:56
Eruaran	I'll shout, "HOWS THAT PLURK THING GOING DICKHEAD"	Dec 19 15:56
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shreddar	It's only a matter of time before Windows isn't making them any money.	Dec 19 15:57
MinceR	you could also mention their recent GPL violation issue	Dec 19 15:57
Eruaran	MinceR, yes indeed	Dec 19 15:58
*pentarex (n=pentarex@84.24.215.12) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 19 15:58
Eruaran	Maybe I'll be a bit more civilised and wait till questions... then I'll ask "you mentioned intellectual property... hows that Plurk thing going, and those GPL volation issues (etc etc)	Dec 19 15:58
Eruaran	You can bet he'll go staight into spin mode	Dec 19 15:59
Eruaran	*straight	Dec 19 15:59
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shreddar	He'll get pissed and kick you out.	Dec 19 15:59
Eruaran	"52 pending patent violations Steve... hows that working out for ya ?"	Dec 19 16:00
Eruaran	"I know you're serious about 'intellectual property'... you cant keep your hands off OTHER PEOPLE'S 'intellectual property'"	Dec 19 16:02
*ThistleWeb is now known as ThistleWind		Dec 19 16:02
Eruaran	I reckon I can get a couple of sharp ones in before I get kicked out	Dec 19 16:03
shreddar	He probably will make you agree not to say anything under threat of a law suit.	Dec 19 16:04
Eruaran	"Mr Ballmer, is it not true that if Red Hat is a kettle, you're the pot that's calling it black ?"	Dec 19 16:04
shreddar	You might have to sign it just to get in.	Dec 19 16:04
shreddar	If you can get in.	Dec 19 16:04
Eruaran	Our company is a "gold certified" Microsoft partner	Dec 19 16:05
Eruaran	whatever that means	Dec 19 16:05
shreddar	I'd love to read about it if you do.	Dec 19 16:05
Eruaran	It means they wont pat me down looking for a plush Tux at the door	Dec 19 16:05
Eruaran	I'll be up for it	Dec 19 16:06
shreddar	So MS will be mad at your company that hired you?	Dec 19 16:06
shreddar	I can see where that might lead.	Dec 19 16:06
shreddar	Bing up your ass your fired!	Dec 19 16:07
Eruaran	If he starts spouting crap like IP I don't think I could contain myself... can't let it slide and also watch a room full of people swallow it without piping up and saying something to break up the little distortion-of-reality thing	Dec 19 16:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Simon Phipps: “Linux is No Longer Important Enough to Justify a Business Unit at #Novell ” http://ur1.ca/i7hw		Dec 19 16:07
phIRCe-local	Title: Simon Phipps: “Linux is No Longer Important Enough to Justify a Business Unit at Novell” \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 110.05 KB	Dec 19 16:07
Eruaran	I'm a partner	Dec 19 16:07
Eruaran	Are they serious ?	Dec 19 16:08
shreddar	Oh well then it'll be okay.	Dec 19 16:09
shreddar	MS might still want revenge though.	Dec 19 16:09
shreddar	Or to make a example out of your company.	Dec 19 16:10
shreddar	Or maybe they'll just whine about it.	Dec 19 16:10
Eruaran	There is nothing they can do that would not result in a court battle that would be much more feisty than they'd expect	Dec 19 16:11
shreddar	Like they did about those guy's who brought apple laptops with them to a conference.	Dec 19 16:11
Eruaran	And some very bad publicity	Dec 19 16:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] 2-0 Fuhlam, seems like Utd are determined not to be top by New Year		Dec 19 16:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Would anyone have documentation for the WordPress WXR XML format? Can't find anything on wordpress.org. Must fix broken WXR file.		Dec 19 16:12
Eruaran	To hurt us they'd have to put the choke on at least two major suppliers - this would immediately land both Microsoft and those suppliers in court	Dec 19 16:12
Eruaran	And whatever action they took would get immediate and very bad publicity that they wouldn't want	Dec 19 16:14
Eruaran	They want to be seen as a little asian girl in Windows 7 ads... its like Scientology... if they start to look bad and the press is bad they'll suddenly turn victim and say they're all fluffy and nice and there was some kind of misunderstanding and it was someone elses fault	Dec 19 16:16
shreddar	MS already gets bad publicity though. And you know how they handle it now. Astroturfers, bribes, flogs, and their leverage as advertisers.	Dec 19 16:18
Eruaran	They'd have to start a proxy war through a competitor	Dec 19 16:19
Eruaran	But were service based rather than retail	Dec 19 16:19
Eruaran	They'd have to try and use a proxy to poach customers	Dec 19 16:20
Eruaran	But they'll lose them quickly if they can't provide good enough service	Dec 19 16:20
Eruaran	And the customer returns to someone they know is reliable	Dec 19 16:20
shreddar	So it might not be worth the effort for them.	Dec 19 16:21
Eruaran	yes	Dec 19 16:21
Eruaran	Lets say Novell wants to poach Red Hat's customers... lets say they win a couple with enticing deals... Red Hat's standards of service are very high, will Novell match Red Hat's award winning level of service and retain these customers ?	Dec 19 16:24
shreddar	I'm sure you know this already but, they'll still likely blacklist you for other conference I imagine.	Dec 19 16:25
Eruaran	hehe of course	Dec 19 16:26
shreddar	So make it count.	Dec 19 16:26
Eruaran	Telstra targets Internode customers (Internode won a court battle against Telstra), they offer people deals that sound better than Internode. But Telstra can't match Internode's level of customer service. At the end of the contract, they lose the customer who goes back to Internode.	Dec 19 16:27
cubezzz	is there a way to monitor an XP box remotely on a Linux box?	Dec 19 16:29
shreddar	Ask him why Internet Explorer still suck so bad.	Dec 19 16:30
Eruaran	lol	Dec 19 16:31
Eruaran	we routinely uninstall IE8 from new PC's	Dec 19 16:31
Eruaran	Its a dog	Dec 19 16:31
Eruaran	(the new PCs that we can uninstall it from that is)	Dec 19 16:32
cubezzz	his customer if mine is saying he's getting a message "battery life low" on his desktop	Dec 19 16:32
shreddar	Only frase it in a much more political way.	Dec 19 16:32
Eruaran	IE8 is unstable	Dec 19 16:32
cubezzz	I guess I could buy pcanywhere for Linux	Dec 19 16:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] WordPress WXR workaround: disable the validation check in wp-admin/import/wordpress.php :-D Now importing all ...		Dec 19 16:33
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Eruaran	cubezzz, Nagios ?	Dec 19 16:34
Eruaran	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagios	Dec 19 16:34
phIRCe-local	Title: Nagios - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 35.34 KB	Dec 19 16:34
Eruaran	I haven't used it but it looks like it might be useful	Dec 19 16:37
Eruaran	possibly, maybe...	Dec 19 16:37
cubezzz	I'll try it	Dec 19 16:37
amarsh04	I've had what sound like Indian call centre people trying to entice me to use Bigpond (I'm an Internode customer). The non-metered content on Internode, friendly and expert local customer service, not to mention their superior quality network means that I'll stay with Internode	Dec 19 16:43
Eruaran	haha I love the comments on the bing guy video	Dec 19 16:44
Eruaran	Exestenz: wtf is a bing. xmuta: Google it. d4741us: ROFL	Dec 19 16:46
shreddar	http://www.rdmag.com/News/Feeds/2009/12/information-tech-interoperability-the-other-side-of-our-settlement/	Dec 19 16:47
Eruaran	amarsh04, yes, they are targeting Internode customers - Telstra also offers bogus deals where you don't get everything that was offered.	Dec 19 16:52
amarsh04	I can believe that Eruaran	Dec 19 16:52
Eruaran	lol that video is attracting some great comments	Dec 19 16:55
Eruaran	"Ballmers gravestone... Bing!"	Dec 19 16:55
MinceR	ll	Dec 19 16:55
MinceR	lol	Dec 19 16:55
Eruaran	"Bing!" = Ballmer's safety word.	Dec 19 16:57
MinceR	lol	Dec 19 16:59
MinceR	so he's a masochist?	Dec 19 16:59
notzed	i haven't had a phone company call me since the do not call list was setup	Dec 19 17:01
notzed	although i've had a couple of door knocks. i just say my calls cost 9c australia wide untimed and they leave	Dec 19 17:02
Eruaran	One person commented that the behaviour the guy in the video describes is exactly the type of behaviour that sociopaths who work in offices exhibit.	Dec 19 17:02
Eruaran	Someone else said, "that sounds exactly like Steve Ballmer. You just can't make up that kind of insanity"	Dec 19 17:03
Eruaran	"Uploaded using iPhone" BING!	Dec 19 17:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #European Commission Unable to Defend #FreeSoftware from #Microsoft #Patent Racket http://ur1.ca/i7p2		Dec 19 17:06
phIRCe-local	Title: European Commission Unable to Defend Free Software from Microsoft Patent Racket \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 113.7 KB	Dec 19 17:06
schestowitz	Hmmm... just had this most annoying Firefox bug	Dec 19 17:06
schestowitz	Some page that I was loading I reckon was causing Firefox to act weird all around	Dec 19 17:06
schestowitz	Restarting and restoring all tabs led to reproducibility	Dec 19 17:07
schestowitz	Very annoying	Dec 19 17:07
schestowitz	nNyway, bbl	Dec 19 17:07
*schestowitz fling chair at Lucuwski		Dec 19 17:07
Eruaran	Bing!	Dec 19 17:07
schestowitz	Bada	Dec 19 17:07
schestowitz	*Lucowski (IIRC)	Dec 19 17:07
cubezzz	Lucovsky	Dec 19 17:09
cubezzz	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Lucovsky	Dec 19 17:10
phIRCe-local	Title: Mark Lucovsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 23.49 KB	Dec 19 17:10
*shreddar_ (i=4c16e5e1@gateway/web/freenode/x-nuqicdgfydysyumt) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 19 17:17
shreddar_	My chrome has been crashing sprastically badly lately.	Dec 19 17:18
*shreddar has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)		Dec 19 17:19
shreddar_	It's a really disappointing regression since they recently released a Beta for other distros.	Dec 19 17:20
shreddar_	I hope the next Chromium update fixes it.	Dec 19 17:20
*shreddar_ is now known as shreddar		Dec 19 17:25
Eruaran	Chakra looks like a promising distro	Dec 19 17:33
Eruaran	Arch based	Dec 19 17:33
Eruaran	still alpha atm	Dec 19 17:34
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shreddar_	I did again. Atleast the crashes aren't random	Dec 19 17:36
shreddar_	It's always when I click on certain things.	Dec 19 17:37
*shreddar has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)		Dec 19 17:37
shreddar_	Or try to install themes.	Dec 19 17:37
shreddar_	Or download anything	Dec 19 17:41
*shreddar_ is now known as shreddar		Dec 19 17:41
shreddar	http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/Charles/IE-9-Standards-and-Interoperability/	Dec 19 17:45
shreddar	read the comments	Dec 19 17:46
shreddar	they're not as good as the ones on the IE9 announcement but still fun.	Dec 19 17:46
Eruaran	"The IE team is busy working on the next version of the world's most popular browser"	Dec 19 17:50
Eruaran	Don't you just love how they characterise a browser that people get already installed on their Windows PC by default, "popular".	Dec 19 17:51
Eruaran	A dauntingly large percentage of those people don't even know what you're talking about when you use the words "web browser".	Dec 19 17:51
shreddar	It can't be popular if most of the peple who use it don't understand what abrowser is.	Dec 19 17:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Best Buy and Geek Squad claim #Ubuntu #Linux causes hardware to break, refuse to fix broken PSU. Avoid. http://bit.ly/7lLtwW		Dec 19 17:52
phIRCe-local	Title: Geek Squad Wouldn't Honor My Netbook's Protection Plan - The Consumerist .::. Size~: 54.83 KB	Dec 19 17:52
Eruaran	If you tell a lot of people to start their web browser they wont understand	Dec 19 17:52
shreddar	let a one which one they use.	Dec 19 17:53
Eruaran	You ask them if they have Internet Explorer and they understand that	Dec 19 17:53
Eruaran	they think of "internet explorer" in generic terms	Dec 19 17:54
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Eruaran	If you ask "do you have an internet explorer" they'll say "oh yes"	Dec 19 17:54
satipera	3	Dec 19 17:54
Eruaran	this is the level of ignorance you're dealing with here	Dec 19 17:54
Eruaran	IE isn't "popular" its simply default	Dec 19 17:55
shreddar	Well I wouldn't say they're are ignorant just uninterested.	Dec 19 17:57
Eruaran	Someone who doesn't know such basic things is ignorant.	Dec 19 17:58
Eruaran	The average user in the 90's knew what a web browser was.	Dec 19 17:58
shreddar	But there are more PC users than there were in the 90. Simply because of the internet.	Dec 19 17:59
Eruaran	And despite the genuine popularity of Firefox, a vast sea of users know nothing but Windows and Internet Explorer.	Dec 19 18:00
shreddar	Alot of people still don't want to know how to use a PC. The ones that do simply do want to learn the internet.	Dec 19 18:01
shreddar	They aren't informed on such things because they are only interested in function.	Dec 19 18:01
shreddar	They don't care about the potential of a PC.	Dec 19 18:02
notzed	actually i'd say they're actively disinterested in learning	Dec 19 18:02
satipera	Guardian technology 1 month without linux article floss not much better	Dec 19 18:03
shreddar	They want to learn they just don't want to learn how to use a device that most people associate with work and failure.	Dec 19 18:03
notzed	not the people i've observed :)	Dec 19 18:03
shreddar	Alot of people have been taught that If something goes wrong it's their fault.	Dec 19 18:04
notzed	well it usually is :)	Dec 19 18:04
notzed	but that's how you have to learn	Dec 19 18:04
shreddar	True but people don't need that kind of responcibiliy. They need things that work the way you expect them to.	Dec 19 18:06
Eruaran	My VLC has a little Santa hat	Dec 19 18:08
satipera	If something goes wrong, it is often not the fault of the person of concerned	Dec 19 18:08
satipera	even recent history is awash with examples	Dec 19 18:09
cubezzz	new term for the MPAA:	Dec 19 18:12
cubezzz	"copyright maximalist"	Dec 19 18:12
satipera	Is it the fault of the individual that he was blown away by a corporation and its lawyers?	Dec 19 18:13
notzed	depends i would say, but that's something entirely different from computer `breaking'	Dec 19 18:14
satipera	:) I should know better than join a conversation half way.	Dec 19 18:15
notzed	:)	Dec 19 18:16
notzed	hmm, even angstrom fits xmms and the gimp in it's cd-rom sized install	Dec 19 18:20
*Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@93.102.36.18.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 19 18:26
shreddar	I'm not sure on this but I think a some point web developers wanted IE to be the the standard. Simply because they didn't want make several versions for other browsers.	Dec 19 18:28
shreddar	They wanted to just make one version and focus on it.	Dec 19 18:29
shreddar	Because one of my relatives who used to be a web designer kind of scoff a the people who use firefox.	Dec 19 18:30
shreddar	Web explain about it to her daughter.	Dec 19 18:30
shreddar	Web = when	Dec 19 18:30
shreddar	Like firefox users were second class citizens or something.	Dec 19 18:31
shreddar	That's the way it sounded anyway.	Dec 19 18:32
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shreddar	I know most developers now hate IE because it doesn't have any of the nice new implementation of the other browsers and it's not well documented.	Dec 19 18:33
shreddar	Also, I guess now they have to make seperate version anyways because of the different version of IE now.	Dec 19 18:34
shreddar	Anyway it just occurred to me how that might be a major change now at day.	Dec 19 18:35
shreddar	s	Dec 19 18:35
cubezzz	2nd class compared to what?	Dec 19 18:37
shreddar	IE users.	Dec 19 18:38
cubezzz	the first browsers were unix based	Dec 19 18:38
cubezzz	pffffft	Dec 19 18:38
cubezzz	i'd say the opposite	Dec 19 18:38
shreddar	I think alot of people feel that way now.	Dec 19 18:39
shreddar	But I think they developers might have been feeling different durring the Netscape vs Internet Explorer times.	Dec 19 18:39
cubezzz	ok, nextstep to be precise	Dec 19 18:40
cubezzz	which is Unix-like	Dec 19 18:40
shreddar	At least when IE became the majority.	Dec 19 18:40
cubezzz	younger devs maybe	Dec 19 18:40
cubezzz	a new dark ages :-/	Dec 19 18:42
cubezzz	viola was quite advanced and had some of the functions firefox has now	Dec 19 18:43
shreddar	Netscape was very popular before Microsoft attacked them with their partners and platform dominance.	Dec 19 18:44
shreddar	But I don't devs cared.	Dec 19 18:45
cubezzz	sorry, again I'm a little inaccurate	Dec 19 18:45
cubezzz	it's been a while	Dec 19 18:45
cubezzz	violaWWW it was called	Dec 19 18:45
cubezzz	devs? what devs? :)	Dec 19 18:46
cubezzz	devs in general?	Dec 19 18:46
shreddar	Web developers.	Dec 19 18:46
shreddar	They just wanted to make website without worrying about which browser people were using.	Dec 19 18:47
cubezzz	ok.... well there are standards eh? :)	Dec 19 18:47
cubezzz	remember the button?	Dec 19 18:47
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cubezzz	w3c ring any bells?	Dec 19 18:47
shreddar	Yeah but back then most browser had extra things with their impletation.	Dec 19 18:47
cubezzz	ok, so you are talking about 1995-2000?	Dec 19 18:48
shreddar	Yeah	Dec 19 18:48
cubezzz	still there are Mac web devs, and Unix web devs	Dec 19 18:48
cubezzz	netscape was originally a unix program	Dec 19 18:49
cubezzz	the whole point is to be able to see web pages on any computer	Dec 19 18:49
cubezzz	not the stuff microsoft is trying to force on us	Dec 19 18:50
cubezzz	I admit, 1995-2000 was a dark ages of computing, no doubt about it	Dec 19 18:50
notzed	well yeah, the rise of microsoft	Dec 19 18:51
cubezzz	you may as well say IE devs and be done with it	Dec 19 18:51
notzed	can't get much darker than that	Dec 19 18:51
cubezzz	not "web dev"	Dec 19 18:51
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cubezzz	if you go back to the late 80's (and my memory is very good)	Dec 19 18:53
cubezzz	we had wais, ftp and gopher	Dec 19 18:53
cubezzz	it wasn't that long ago	Dec 19 18:53
cubezzz	I telnetted into Waterloo's library	Dec 19 18:54
cubezzz	I have to say win95 was the low point	Dec 19 18:54
cubezzz	that is when everything went to crap	Dec 19 18:54
cubezzz	in the windows 3.0 era we still had a lot of folks on MS DOS	Dec 19 18:55
cubezzz	but most hobbyists were using stuff like FidoNet	Dec 19 18:56
cubezzz	and BBSes	Dec 19 18:56
shreddar	Well I think there was a big push in businesses to standardize on one compatible set of computers.	Dec 19 18:56
cubezzz	it didn't matter which computer you had	Dec 19 18:56
cubezzz	well, that's what we ended up with, but we are reverting back to a diversity again	Dec 19 18:57
cubezzz	thankfully	Dec 19 18:57
cubezzz	we had lots of platforms in the 80's	Dec 19 18:57
shreddar	Well, now we have open source and a set of standards for interoperability.	Dec 19 18:58
cubezzz	I can only hope when ARM based stuff becomes more common we will go back to "normal"	Dec 19 18:58
notzed	arm will only be portable stuff for a while yet though	Dec 19 18:59
notzed	it's edge is (only) power usage	Dec 19 18:59
shreddar	Back then everything was closed and proprietary so it didn't make much difference witch one they standardized on.	Dec 19 18:59
cubezzz	well I think you could get a BSD pretty far back	Dec 19 19:00
shreddar	Not far enough back.	Dec 19 19:01
shreddar	Had freeBSD or Linux been options on the original IBM PC things would be way different now.	Dec 19 19:01
notzed	if you could afford the hardware	Dec 19 19:02
cubezzz	no that was the lack of an MMU not the software	Dec 19 19:02
notzed	or if they'd chosen 68k not x86	Dec 19 19:02
cubezzz	shreddar, there was Venix	Dec 19 19:02
cubezzz	but I think it was closed	Dec 19 19:02
cubezzz	can't remember ever seeing the source code for 8086 Unix clones	Dec 19 19:02
cubezzz	you could get a mag tape of BSD all the way back to 1980 I think	Dec 19 19:03
cubezzz	I know you could run Venix on IBM PC	Dec 19 19:04
cubezzz	or a PDP-11	Dec 19 19:04
shreddar	It wasn't a matter of technical capabilities but price.	Dec 19 19:05
shreddar	PC-DOS was the cheapest of all the options.	Dec 19 19:05
cubezzz	oh and Mark WIlliams Unix was cheap :)	Dec 19 19:05
cubezzz	yeah it was all closed	Dec 19 19:06
cubezzz	I'm not sure why I never saw BSD code until the early 90's	Dec 19 19:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] New Blog Post \| Linux Friendly Companies - UK \| The Digital Prism http://tinyurl.com/y9q6la9		Dec 19 19:07
phIRCe-local	Title: Linux Friendly Companies - UK \| The Digital Prism .::. Size~: 15.77 KB	Dec 19 19:07
cubezzz	I'll have a look in google groups pre-1990	Dec 19 19:08
cubezzz	bsd unix goes back to 1978	Dec 19 19:08
cubezzz	almost nothing archived on the subject before 1986	Dec 19 19:13
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cubezzz	we had access to a lot of Unix System V code back in 1988-1989	Dec 19 19:19
*Python132O (i=Python13@unaffiliated/python1320) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 19 19:19
cubezzz	but definitely we weren't talking about an "open source os"	Dec 19 19:20
cubezzz	these early Linus emails are rather ....unfriendly :)	Dec 19 19:22
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Navaneet	@fedora11	Dec 19 19:22
shreddar	Venix costed $400 and wasn't available as a option at the launch the IBM PC. By contrast PC-DOS costed $40 was available at launch.	Dec 19 19:24
Navaneet	can any1 help in fedora related problem ??	Dec 19 19:24
Navaneet	#fedora	Dec 19 19:24
cubezzz	shreddar, maybe but which one would you rather use? :)	Dec 19 19:24
cubezzz	I certainly remember using Venix in 1986	Dec 19 19:25
Navaneet	fedora 11	Dec 19 19:25
shreddar	Had a free OS been available at launch I'm sure that would have been the popular one and in turn used in PC compatibles.	Dec 19 19:25
cubezzz	Navaneet, I think you want "/join #fedora"	Dec 19 19:25
Navaneet	@cubezzz->thanx for reminding me...	Dec 19 19:26
*amarsh04 ran UnixWare 1.0.x-1.1.3 on a 486-33		Dec 19 19:27
amarsh04	that was 1993	Dec 19 19:28
cubezzz	Venix in 1986, Xenix 286 in 1987 and Unix System V in 1988	Dec 19 19:28
shreddar	But the IBM PC was announced in 1981.	Dec 19 19:28
cubezzz	shreddar, I'm saying I used Venix in 1986, I don't know exactly when it came out	Dec 19 19:29
shreddar	I think it might have come out 3 years after the PC.	Dec 19 19:31
cubezzz	maybe one of those "history of Unix" charts would tell us	Dec 19 19:32
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cubezzz	ok, I found it :) duh	Dec 19 19:33
cubezzz	1984	Dec 19 19:33
cubezzz	so you are right	Dec 19 19:33
cubezzz	in 1984 I was using Commodore Pet still :)	Dec 19 19:34
cubezzz	and Vic-20	Dec 19 19:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] First drink of the evening is milled wine. Can't see this catching on #fb		Dec 19 19:34
cubezzz	Tanenbaum certainly got his predictions wrong	Dec 19 19:35
cubezzz	Intel hardware is "weird" :)	Dec 19 19:35
cubezzz	"Feb 3, 1992 Subject: Linux is obsolete" ;-)	Dec 19 19:37
amarsh04	in 1982 I was using the VAX-11/780 at uni	Dec 19 19:37
cubezzz	huh, you are older than me then	Dec 19 19:37
cubezzz	"when Hurd proliferates Linux will be obsolete"	Dec 19 19:39
shreddar	That might have been true the Hurd proliferated. Which didn't happen because nobody had a use for microkernels back then.	Dec 19 19:42
cubezzz	there was Minix on Amiga but I never saw it	Dec 19 19:43
amarsh04	and our uni couldn't afford real vt100 terminals so we had infotons	Dec 19 19:44
amarsh04	some of my aquaintances in the early 1990's used minix on amigas	Dec 19 19:44
cubezzz	yeah Minix was pretty portable	Dec 19 19:46
cubezzz	ok shreddar	Dec 19 19:49
shreddar	I don't think people cared as much about Minux being a microkernel as much as it was about it be open source.	Dec 19 19:49
cubezzz	Tanenbaum says "buy Coherent" in 1992, back then it was $99	Dec 19 19:49
cubezzz	if you want cheap Unix	Dec 19 19:49
cubezzz	I paid $200 for my first Lattice C compiler	Dec 19 19:50
cubezzz	you could buy Taenbaum's OS book in 1987	Dec 19 19:51
amarsh04	there were a few svr4.0 vendors for x86 in the early 1990's interactive (acquired by sun), consensys, microport	Dec 19 19:51
cubezzz	so before that you probably had to pay lots of $$$	Dec 19 19:51
amarsh04	hardware was also more expensive of course	Dec 19 19:52
shreddar	I meant Minix.	Dec 19 19:54
shreddar	I know I'm not the first to call it Minux though.	Dec 19 19:55
cubezzz	http://www.robotwisdom.com/linux/timeline.html	Dec 19 19:55
phIRCe-local	Title: Timeline of GNU/Linux and Unix .::. Size~: 76.55 KB	Dec 19 19:55
cubezzz	heh, just noticed that	Dec 19 19:56
cubezzz	1972 Unix is written mostly in C	Dec 19 19:56
cubezzz	1976: Xerox invents ethernet :)	Dec 19 19:57
cubezzz	1979 Unix version 7 (with source code)	Dec 19 19:58
cubezzz	so in theory we could have had an open source OS in 1979	Dec 19 19:59
Eruaran	Coherent had the most awesome Unix manual I've ever seen.	Dec 19 19:59
cubezzz	do you still have it?	Dec 19 19:59
Eruaran	No :(	Dec 19 20:00
shreddar	We could have had it after the invention of the computer memory.	Dec 19 20:00
Eruaran	I never had it, a friend did, I used to borrow it.	Dec 19 20:00
shreddar	All we needed was a GPL for it.	Dec 19 20:00
Eruaran	ah the memories	Dec 19 20:00
Eruaran	Coherent, its manual and "mind our dust"	Dec 19 20:01
cubezzz	yes, but we how many of us would have had computer access back then?	Dec 19 20:01
cubezzz	Eruaran, I have my Xenix books still	Dec 19 20:01
cubezzz	and all my notes too	Dec 19 20:01
amarsh04	remember the qnx demo floppy?	Dec 19 20:01
amarsh04	booted a graphical web browser off a 1.44MB floppy	Dec 19 20:02
cubezzz	amarsh04, I heard of it, never used it	Dec 19 20:02
schestowitz	cubezzz is like a computer guru who have seen it all :-)	Dec 19 20:02
cubezzz	not really	Dec 19 20:03
schestowitz	On my first computer I had colour... 4 of them	Dec 19 20:03
schestowitz	cGA	Dec 19 20:03
cubezzz	I have been into computers since the late 70's	Dec 19 20:03
cubezzz	the term we used for old timers was "BC"	Dec 19 20:04
cubezzz	as in "Before Computers" :-0	Dec 19 20:04
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cubezzz	ah, this says that Venix was 1983 which disagrees with wikipedia	Dec 19 20:05
cubezzz	VenturCom	Dec 19 20:05
schestowitz	What qualifies as computer?	Dec 19 20:06
schestowitz	Each has a definition to suit self	Dec 19 20:06
schestowitz	In Manchester we say we had the first computer	Dec 19 20:06
cubezzz	well I would say digital computer to be precise	Dec 19 20:06
schestowitz	First _programmable_ one	Dec 19 20:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The rain has just washed away all the snow, which was heavy. Still cold..		Dec 19 20:06
schestowitz	But calculators too are computers	Dec 19 20:06
shreddar	It has to operate on a set of instructions.	Dec 19 20:06
schestowitz	Abacus too in some way	Dec 19 20:06
shreddar	or something to that effect.	Dec 19 20:06
schestowitz	Or abstract turning machines made of boxes	Dec 19 20:06
cubezzz	it has to have loop and branching capabilities	Dec 19 20:06
schestowitz	And electricity goes bad to Baghdad battery	Dec 19 20:07
cubezzz	ok, there you have it venix goes back to Sept. 1983	Dec 19 20:07
schestowitz	Same with aeroplanes	Dec 19 20:07
cubezzz	you know people could make money from Linux just publishing manuals and good books	Dec 19 20:08
shreddar	Or selling disks with some nice cover art.	Dec 19 20:09
shreddar	And customised themes and stuff.	Dec 19 20:10
shreddar	I think might try that.	Dec 19 20:10
cubezzz	I guess I'll say Colossus Mark 1 for the 1st computer	Dec 19 20:10
cubezzz	programming via patch cables	Dec 19 20:11
schestowitz	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/18/webcam_gaffe/	Dec 19 20:12
phIRCe-local	Title: Swedish bankers punt webcam smut to kiddies • The Register .::. Size~: 24.17 KB	Dec 19 20:12
schestowitz	Does anyone know if the Bing "you're fired" video was authentic?	Dec 19 20:14
schestowitz	I see no news coverage about it	Dec 19 20:14
cubezzz	schestowitz, probaby not, it's a joke	Dec 19 20:15
schestowitz	Can someone just verify it's not a fake?	Dec 19 20:15
schestowitz	How do you know?	Dec 19 20:15
cubezzz	I'm not 100% sure but look at the source	Dec 19 20:15
schestowitz	YouTube	Dec 19 20:15
schestowitz	Unless it's also in a site	Dec 19 20:15
schestowitz	Embedded	Dec 19 20:15
shreddar	I don't know nobody does. But thats what I heard on reddit	Dec 19 20:16
cubezzz	Scott Rose is a Mac Consultant and a comedian	Dec 19 20:17
shreddar	Yeah but I we still don't know the guy he interviewed was. It's just suspicious.	Dec 19 20:18
schestowitz	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/19/psystar_goes_out_of_business/	Dec 19 20:19
phIRCe-local	Title: Hackintosher goes titsup • The Register .::. Size~: 36.59 KB	Dec 19 20:19
schestowitz	Pschostar falls like an asteroid	Dec 19 20:19
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yuhong	I am now trying to rebut a claim.	Dec 19 20:20
schestowitz	I'll butt	Dec 19 20:20
schestowitz	You'll rebutt	Dec 19 20:20
schestowitz	:-p	Dec 19 20:20
yuhong	http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/11/vista-7-insecurity-2/	Dec 19 20:21
phIRCe-local	Title: Trend Micro: Vista 7 Less Secure Than Vista \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 129.23 KB	Dec 19 20:21
yuhong	Scroll down to December 19th, 2009 at 10:11 am"	Dec 19 20:21
yuhong	Scroll down to "December 19th, 2009 at 10:11 am"	Dec 19 20:21
yuhong	It was by your_friend.	Dec 19 20:22
yuhong	Just wrote a new comment.	Dec 19 20:23
*Diablo-D3 has quit ("do coders dream of sheep()?")		Dec 19 20:23
yuhong	NT is not fundementally insecure.	Dec 19 20:23
yuhong	http://www.reactos.org/en/about.html	Dec 19 20:23
phIRCe-local	Title: About ReactOS - ReactOS Website .::. Size~: 22.19 KB	Dec 19 20:23
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schestowitz	I was about to reply...	Dec 19 20:25
trmanco	so was i	Dec 19 20:25
cubezzz	umm	Dec 19 20:25
trmanco	that is react os' view of NT	Dec 19 20:25
trmanco	ask for a unix gurus view of NT security	Dec 19 20:25
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cubezzz	I prefer Unix type systems	Dec 19 20:27
cubezzz	or AROS	Dec 19 20:28
cubezzz	you can put all the BSDs and Linuxes in that mix	Dec 19 20:28
cubezzz	and ReactOS is an alpha stage	Dec 19 20:29
cubezzz	is=in	Dec 19 20:29
schestowitz	trmanco: that's what I just told him	Dec 19 20:31
shreddar	They should start a Free OS/2 project just for those poor guys who got sucked in.	Dec 19 20:31
schestowitz	They justify their choices	Dec 19 20:31
satipera	For all those of us who have not been out on the pop tonight and live in liz land. BBC2 9.00pm definitive blade runner . How it was meant to be seen.	Dec 19 20:31
schestowitz	Does anyone know the lady who will run Canonica;?	Dec 19 20:32
schestowitz	Jane Silber,	Dec 19 20:32
schestowitz	now CEO	Dec 19 20:32
schestowitz	It'll calm down the "Shuttleworth is sexist" crowd	Dec 19 20:33
satipera	That is exactly what I thought	Dec 19 20:33
schestowitz	http://www.canonical.com/aboutus/team	Dec 19 20:33
phIRCe-local	Title: Our team \| Canonical .::. Size~: 14.72 KB	Dec 19 20:33
schestowitz	Oh!!	Dec 19 20:33
schestowitz	That's her...	Dec 19 20:33
schestowitz	http://images.google.com/images?rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&hl=en&source=hp&q=Jane+Silber%2C&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=&aqi=	Dec 19 20:33
phIRCe-local	Title: Jane Silber, - Google Search .::. Size~: 46.97 KB	Dec 19 20:33
schestowitz	I know her from a video on linux.com	Dec 19 20:33
schestowitz	http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/347	Dec 19 20:34
phIRCe-local	Title: Meet Jane Silber \| The Fridge .::. Size~: 8.76 KB	Dec 19 20:34
satipera	The substance of her previous position should say how things are. This is not a canonical pr faff.	Dec 19 20:36
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shreddar	Eruaran you should ask Ballmer if he they have any plans for the ballot screen here in the US.	Dec 19 20:38
cubezzz	Eruaran talks directly to Ballmer?	Dec 19 20:38
shreddar	Know but he might be at one of his conferences.	Dec 19 20:38
shreddar	Know = No	Dec 19 20:39
shreddar	Anyone suck as much at Grammer and Spelling as me? Chrome/Chromium has crappy spell check.	Dec 19 20:40
shreddar	But I have to have my Multiprocces Tabs.	Dec 19 20:40
shreddar	Plus I like the look better.	Dec 19 20:41
cubezzz	dict or ispell -a for me :)	Dec 19 20:41
cubezzz	curl dict://dict.org/d:$1	Dec 19 20:42
shreddar	Firefox used to be about getting rid of bloatware/featureidis but I think Chrome has gone further in that regard.	Dec 19 20:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Meet #Canonical ’s New CEO (Video) http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/19/chat-with-jane-silber/ #ubuntu #janesilber		Dec 19 20:43
phIRCe-local	Title: Meet Canonicals New CEO \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 101.67 KB	Dec 19 20:43
schestowitz	cubezzz: kde4 has a plasmoid for it	Dec 19 20:46
schestowitz	kde 3.1 also had nice tools for it	Dec 19 20:46
schestowitz	What do you guys think of Canonical's CEO?	Dec 19 20:47
schestowitz	SHe's amicable, IMHO	Dec 19 20:47
schestowitz	Sheer contract to the old man from Apple and the madman from Microsoft	Dec 19 20:48
schestowitz	*Contrast	Dec 19 20:48
shreddar	She nice.	Dec 19 20:48
satipera	Roy, wait a while . The truth always come out.	Dec 19 20:48
shreddar	She make shreddar feel comfort shreddar like comfort.	Dec 19 20:48
satipera	Hhopefully	Dec 19 20:48
schestowitz	Whotz this? http://www.carbonmountain.com/	Dec 19 20:49
phIRCe-local	Title: Carbon Mountain \| Virtualization, Networking, Storage, Applications and Cloud. Unified. .::. Size~: 4.82 KB	Dec 19 20:49
satipera	It's good.	Dec 19 20:49
satipera	:)	Dec 19 20:49
schestowitz	Not being tough has its costs also	Dec 19 20:49
schestowitz	I can't envision her telling off jono for doing a hack job on BN :-p	Dec 19 20:50
schestowitz	Maybe Mark got bored and decided to go into orbit again	Dec 19 20:51
shreddar	I can't envision anyone at any company open source or not doing that schesowitz.	Dec 19 20:51
satipera	Night all, I have 15 mins to copyright infringe a really good film. This one i would pay for.	Dec 19 20:51
schestowitz	shreddar: Novell...	Dec 19 20:51
schestowitz	But it's a "mixed source" company	Dec 19 20:52
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schestowitz	LOL	Dec 19 20:52
schestowitz	"Night all, I have 15 mins to copyright infringe a really good film."	Dec 19 20:52
schestowitz	You know, the party party uses Ubuntu	Dec 19 20:52
schestowitz	They also say they "love open source and free software"	Dec 19 20:52
schestowitz	The Swedish founder says he's in favour of breaking down proprietary monopolies	Dec 19 20:53
schestowitz	There are now 'pirate' parties for copyright reform in 6 continents	Dec 19 20:53
shreddar	I'd like for that too.	Dec 19 20:53
schestowitz	IIRC, Germany managed to push some of these guys into parliament too, so it's a rising force for copyright reform	Dec 19 20:53
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schestowitz	On trademark they (he) say, "it is there also to protect the recipient, not just the vendor" (not exact quote)	Dec 19 20:54
shreddar	I'd like creative commons to be seen as better in the eyes of society.	Dec 19 20:54
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schestowitz	They want a 5-year limit on copyright to affect also GPL/FS.	Dec 19 20:54
schestowitz	shreddar: my friends don't know Creative Commons	Dec 19 20:55
schestowitz	They know stuff like "MTV" and "britney"	Dec 19 20:55
schestowitz	Roughly speaking	Dec 19 20:55
schestowitz	Licensing does not occur to them as a factor	Dec 19 20:55
schestowitz	Since 2004 I've had one good site for free graphics	Dec 19 20:55
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sebsebseb	hi	Dec 19 20:55
schestowitz	Hi, sebsebseb	Dec 19 20:55
shreddar	Yeah they don't have to know it. They just have to know the benefits of it. And know when they are missing.	Dec 19 20:55
schestowitz	shreddar: I listen to free music now	Dec 19 20:56
schestowitz	Been doing this for ages.... it's better than some of the stuff on TV	Dec 19 20:56
sebsebseb	schestowitz: hi	Dec 19 20:56
schestowitz	ChartShow TV...	Dec 19 20:56
sebsebseb	what's this about music, I just joined	Dec 19 20:56
schestowitz	We talk about creative commons...	Dec 19 20:56
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schestowitz	http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Nook-rooted-by-NookDevs/	Dec 19 20:57
*ThistleWeb is now known as ThistleWind		Dec 19 20:57
phIRCe-local	Title: Android e-reader rooted, booed, and sued - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 65.04 KB	Dec 19 20:57
shreddar	I watch this show on blip via roku called The Indie Music Show.	Dec 19 20:59
schestowitz	http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2009121802935OPCY	Dec 19 21:07
phIRCe-local	Title: Linux Today - Editor's Note: Hug Your Favorite FOSS Contributors Today (On the Internet, no one can see you nod.) .::. Size~: 81.73 KB	Dec 19 21:07
schestowitz	I prefer kde4 gui to osx http://techgage.com/article/ten_kde_4_tricks_worth_knowing_about/	Dec 19 21:09
phIRCe-local	Title: Techgage - Ten KDE 4 Tricks Worth Knowing About .::. Size~: 27.27 KB	Dec 19 21:09
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shreddar	I think both KDE and OSX have it's shortcomings.	Dec 19 21:12
shreddar	KDE has a crappy browser while OSX has a slightly difficult (for those of use to who use PCs) behavior.	Dec 19 21:13
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shreddar	I say slightly because I'm sure I could get used to it given enough time.	Dec 19 21:14
shreddar	When I was at the Apple store I had the privilege of trying one out.	Dec 19 21:14
shreddar	I also know OSX doesn't let you customise much.	Dec 19 21:15
shreddar	But they do seem to have better application integration than KDE.	Dec 19 21:16
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ThistleWind	apple know what's cool damnit, how dare normal users think they can decide what's cool	Dec 19 21:16
schestowitz	http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/2009/12/has-transgaming-abandoned-cedega.html	Dec 19 21:17
phIRCe-local	Title: Thoughts on Technology: Has Transgaming Abandoned Cedega .::. Size~: 88.02 KB	Dec 19 21:17
shreddar	This could be because I had to use Firefox which doesn't integrate well at all.	Dec 19 21:17
schestowitz	ThistleWind: the help you leave your brain in th jar	Dec 19 21:17
schestowitz	Stop thinking	Dec 19 21:17
schestowitz	They say Java is bad for teaching computers...	Dec 19 21:18
schestowitz	Dumbing down....	Dec 19 21:18
schestowitz	Our brain will fall off like a tail...	Dec 19 21:18
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cubezzz	a closed source OS isn't worth consideration	Dec 19 21:23
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shreddar	Speaking of Desktops my Gnome desktop is fuckin up again. Can I have at least one Distro where Gnome doesn't break by some update or whatever?	Dec 19 21:24
cubezzz	I've had to do "killall -9 gconfd-2" sometimes	Dec 19 21:26
cubezzz	dare I suggest ctrl-alt-backspace?	Dec 19 21:26
schestowitz	http://www.deviceguru.com/whats-not-going-to-happen-in-2010/	Dec 19 21:26
phIRCe-local	Title: DeviceGuru » Whats NOT going to happen in 2010 .::. Size~: 36.76 KB	Dec 19 21:26
schestowitz	hehe... http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-12-18-018-35-RV-RH-0001 They accused one of the best Linux writers of astroturfing??	Dec 19 21:27
phIRCe-local	Title: Linux Today - Fedora 12 Constantine - Mixed feelings .::. Size~: 77.01 KB	Dec 19 21:27
cubezzz	or init 3 then init 5	Dec 19 21:27
schestowitz	cubezzz: what does it do now? The three-finger salute...	Dec 19 21:27
schestowitz	I don't want to try..	Dec 19 21:27
shreddar	I might try that. But that's the problem with gnome is it's too compenentised so things like this happen too often.	Dec 19 21:28
cubezzz	restarts X and usually fixes gnome/kde probs	Dec 19 21:28
schestowitz	But a newer X disabled ctrl+alt+backspace	Dec 19 21:28
cubezzz	schestowitz, yes that's why I said init 3 then init 5	Dec 19 21:28
shreddar	componentised	Dec 19 21:28
schestowitz	cubezzz: does it?	Dec 19 21:28
schestowitz	I doubt it	Dec 19 21:28
cubezzz	try it :)	Dec 19 21:28
schestowitz	Nope	Dec 19 21:28
schestowitz	I'll try later	Dec 19 21:29
cubezzz	3 - Full multi-user mode	Dec 19 21:29
cubezzz	5 - Full multi-user mode (with an X-based login screen)	Dec 19 21:29
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*shreddar has quit ("restarting x")		Dec 19 21:36
schestowitz	Blowing up x is bad practice	Dec 19 21:44
schestowitz	I might try it later to see if you're just fooling with me	Dec 19 21:44
schestowitz	In older Linuxes ctrl+alt+del did nothing	Dec 19 21:44
pentarex	hmm what ctrl+alt+backspace do ?	Dec 19 21:45
schestowitz	LOL http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/cnews/article.php/3849381/	Dec 19 21:46
phIRCe-local	Title: Tech Comics: "The User and the Geek" — Datamation.com .::. Size~: 81.68 KB	Dec 19 21:46
schestowitz	Better than "error #000232aa	Dec 19 21:46
schestowitz	pentarex: try it and tell me when you log in again :-)	Dec 19 21:46
schestowitz	But I think it's disabled in vanilla x	Dec 19 21:46
pentarex	dunno	Dec 19 21:46
pentarex	restarting x	Dec 19 21:47
pentarex	i know	Dec 19 21:47
pentarex	:P	Dec 19 21:47
schestowitz	LOL again......	Dec 19 21:47
schestowitz	Look what I've found....	Dec 19 21:47
schestowitz	> Posted Dec 17, 2009 18:07 UTC (Thu) by BrucePerens (subscriber,	Dec 19 21:48
schestowitz	> #2510) [Link <http://lwn.net/Articles/367127/> ]	Dec 19 21:48
phIRCe-local	Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KB	Dec 19 21:48
schestowitz	>	Dec 19 21:48
schestowitz	>	Dec 19 21:48
schestowitz	> I ran into Lefty at a community summit out here a while back, and	Dec 19 21:48
schestowitz	> his emotional state was really high. He explained his beef with RMS	Dec 19 21:48
schestowitz	> with a cry in his voice, I kid you not. When I was less than	Dec 19 21:48
schestowitz	> sympathetic, he practically ran out of the room in tears.	Dec 19 21:48
schestowitz	>	Dec 19 21:48
schestowitz	> Now, I am no stranger to getting emotional about things. But I've	Dec 19 21:48
schestowitz	> learned that it doesn't generally help me win the argument.	Dec 19 21:48
schestowitz	>	Dec 19 21:48
schestowitz	> He really needs to focus on ACCESS, which, IMO, is a sinking ship.	Dec 19 21:48
schestowitz	> RMS isn't the big problem in front of him.	Dec 19 21:48
schestowitz	http://www.privacydigest.com/2009/12/17/top%20arizona%20republican%20accused%20using%20voter%20database%20stalk%20woman	Dec 19 21:49
phIRCe-local	Title: Top Arizona Republican Accused of Using Voter Database to Stalk Woman \| Privacy Digest .::. Size~: 31.23 KB	Dec 19 21:49
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] This truly looks like a ripoff of NYT layout and almost name too http://ur1.ca/i85e Legal?		Dec 19 22:06
phIRCe-local	Title: Apple Windows 7? No, Microsoft OS-X - The New Blog Times .::. Size~: 86.76 KB	Dec 19 22:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] any ideas how to increase the font size in choqok a little?		Dec 19 22:14
*Balrog__ (n=Balrog@pool-74-109-70-59.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 19 22:22
*shreddar (i=4c16e5e1@gateway/web/freenode/x-bbdrvjsyozegxatv) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 19 22:23
shreddar	OK i figured out what was wrong. Some how mute was checked on in my Sound Preferences. There appears to be 2 separate mutes and one of them only affect my music/video players.	Dec 19 22:25
shreddar	I had to click on Volume Control to see that the other one was checked on.	Dec 19 22:25
shreddar	It's just bad design on Volume Applet devs part.	Dec 19 22:26
shreddar	Anyways I'm going again. Later.	Dec 19 22:27
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schestowitz	@schestowitz : You're a Brit, get this one for your blog http://ur1.ca/i861 ;)	Dec 19 22:30
schestowitz	http://stylewp.com/themes/the-beeb.html	Dec 19 22:30
schestowitz	heh.	Dec 19 22:30
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schestowitz	_goblin: you wrote "Motzilla and"	Dec 19 22:38
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schestowitz	I didn't know GL was CC...... http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=20071231062341468	Dec 19 22:52
phIRCe-local	Title: Groklaw - License Details .::. Size~: 11.22 KB	Dec 19 22:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Various beers and jagermeister and pizza later . Lovely evening with 'internet friends'. #fb		Dec 19 22:55
schestowitz	http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/even-self-appointed-benevolent-dictators-need-little-change	Dec 19 22:59
phIRCe-local	Title: Even Self-Appointed Benevolent Dictators Need a Little Change \| Linux Journal .::. Size~: 43.8 KB	Dec 19 22:59
schestowitz	http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8688221828.html?kc=rss	Dec 19 23:01
phIRCe-local	Title: Shuttleworth steps down as Ubuntu 10.04 alpha steps up .::. Size~: 39.59 KB	Dec 19 23:01
schestowitz	MinceR: nice new Hungarian distro: http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=blackpanther	Dec 19 23:08
phIRCe-local	Title: DistroWatch.com: blackPanther OS .::. Size~: 47.22 KB	Dec 19 23:08
MinceR	not really new :>	Dec 19 23:08
schestowitz	10.1	Dec 19 23:10
schestowitz	kde four	Dec 19 23:10
schestowitz	The New Konk	Dec 19 23:24
*schestowitz qwakes up after nucturanall hibernation		Dec 19 23:25
MinceR	why not Konq?	Dec 19 23:25
sebsebseb	schestowitz: hmm	Dec 19 23:25
sebsebseb	that's old news now	Dec 19 23:25
schestowitz	I got tired	Dec 19 23:25
sebsebseb	the Shuttleworth doing something else stuff	Dec 19 23:25
sebsebseb	for Caonical	Dec 19 23:26
schestowitz	kde4 like OpenSUSE	Dec 19 23:26
schestowitz	Maybe one day they'll do wiyth opensuse do	Dec 19 23:26
schestowitz	Just without the Novell blech	Dec 19 23:26
schestowitz	What the hck is this? http://daniel.hahler.de/hal-configuration-fdi-for-kingsis-peripherals-evoluent-verticalmouse-3	Dec 19 23:37
phIRCe-local	Title: HAL configuration for Kingsis Peripherals Evoluent VerticalMouse 3 .::. Size~: 44.83 KB	Dec 19 23:37
schestowitz	http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/12/hail_and_farewe.html;jsessionid=VOZ1VI2LGYFD5QE1GHRSKHWATMY32JVN "The only constant thing is change, and change has come my way. As of the end of 2009, I'll be leaving InformationWeek -- so over the next couple of days I thought I'd sum up a few points gleaned during my time here."	Dec 19 23:38
phIRCe-local	Title: InformationWeek.com .::. Size~: 78.37 KB	Dec 19 23:38
schestowitz	Pseudo-source-yes-men=Pseudo-source-yes-men--;	Dec 19 23:38
schestowitz	http://www.itwriting.com/blog/2022-moonlight-2-released-no-microsoft-codecs-unless-you-get-it-from-novell.html	Dec 19 23:41
fewa	schestowitz, you see the yes men canada stunt?	Dec 19 23:41
notzed	hmm, only in a browser eh. i thought both ms and novell were all about silverlight being the next great desktop toolkit, after the last great desktop toolkit flopped	Dec 19 23:48
schestowitz	Sarko idiotism... maybe they should just block French IPs denying them access to these books that Brits can get still...... http://mybroadband.co.za/news/Business/10890.html	Dec 19 23:48
phIRCe-local	Title: Google convicted in copyright case .::. Size~: 35.97 KB	Dec 19 23:48
schestowitz	fewa: are they still going after the Chamber of Cronies sued them?	Dec 19 23:49
schestowitz	Chamber of Commerse is attacking healthcare reform	Dec 19 23:49
schestowitz	Are they not Federal?	Dec 19 23:49
notzed	COC is just a business union	Dec 19 23:50
_goblin	schestowitz: Hi! Just finished family party.....Motzilla.....yeah...typo...	Dec 19 23:50
schestowitz	fewa: http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/chamber_of_commerce_campaign_fight_health-care_ref.php	Dec 19 23:50
phIRCe-local	Title: Chamber of Commerce Campaign: Fight Health-Care Reform -- And Win A Trip To Hooters! \| TPMMuckraker .::. Size~: 102.62 KB	Dec 19 23:50
fewa	MS and Novell have such antiquated thinking	Dec 19 23:51
schestowitz	Bury those arseholes... they are worse than FCC	Dec 19 23:51
fewa	they are thinking from what they want (complete control over development and running of applications), and then trying whatever back-handed techniques to get there	Dec 19 23:51
schestowitz	_goblin: twice	Dec 19 23:51
fewa	not realizing its a lost cause	Dec 19 23:51
schestowitz	# Mozzarella Foundation - Mozilla Foundation	Dec 19 23:52
schestowitz	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Inquirer	Dec 19 23:52
phIRCe-local	Title: The Inquirer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 54.41 KB	Dec 19 23:52
fewa	Google instead goes "how can the company makes itsself integral in the functioning of the Internet?"	Dec 19 23:52
schestowitz	Sarko is anal-ogue	Dec 19 23:52
fewa	so that they are percieved as indespensible, you see	Dec 19 23:53
_goblin	schestowitz: That was a little test to see if people were paying attention. Welldone! You've passed!	Dec 19 23:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] That was close, get the cab and the inlaws away before they are snowed in here.....in laws gone... Snowing heavy now too!		Dec 19 23:53
_goblin	schestowitz: Had you seen that Bing video before? That was a new discovery for me...sounds like typical Ballmer...	Dec 19 23:55
schestowitz	http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/astronomers-discover-earth-like-exoplanet-2823	Dec 19 23:57
phIRCe-local	Title: Astronomers Discover Earth-Like Exoplanet - News - eWeekEurope.co.uk .::. Size~: 22.44 KB	Dec 19 23:57
schestowitz	_goblin: I'm still trying to find out if it's authentic	Dec 19 23:58
schestowitz	If so, the ramifications are serious	Dec 19 23:58
notzed	because ballmer is as big a nutjob as we all suspected?	Dec 19 23:59
_goblin	schestowitz: I would have thought the fact that the chap was willing to show his face would add to its credibility.....ive covered myself with using the word allegation..	Dec 19 23:59

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