FurnaceBoy | "Microsoft gives high praise to its MVPs, early adopters and technical experts who participate in its forums, help its customers and give critical feedback that helps shape its products. As a group, they're an enthusiastic bunch -- which helps explain their eagerness to tweet all that juicy information. Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer once called the MVPs his favorite group of people to address. | Feb 18 00:00 |
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FurnaceBoy | The MVP designation is a coveted award for many of them, and the annual pilgrimage to Redmond is often a highlight of their year." | Feb 18 00:00 |
Diablo-D3 | > the annual pilgrimage to Redmond is often a highlight of their year | Feb 18 00:02 |
oiaohm | MVP's normally don't rip him to shreds. | Feb 18 00:02 |
Diablo-D3 | for the rest of us, getting laid does it for us | Feb 18 00:02 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Nearly finished my look at Windows 7 from a Linux users point of view.. | Feb 18 00:03 | |
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More #Ubuntu Derivatives/Flavours: #Lubuntu , Others http://ur1.ca/mltn http://ur1.ca/mlto http://ur1.ca/mltp | Feb 18 00:04 | |
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Even #Microsoft Ally #Wipro Turns to #Linux #Android http://www.financialexpress.com/news/Wipro-Tech-in-pact-with-TI/580598/ #hellfroze | Feb 18 00:06 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Wipro Tech in pact with TI .::. Size~: 84.4 KB | Feb 18 00:06 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Network-attached Storage Uses #Synology Based on #Linux http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Synology-DS710/?kc=rss | Feb 18 00:08 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Two-bay NAS device can expand to seven bays - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 59.98 KB | Feb 18 00:08 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ARM in Sub-notebooks is All About #GNU #Linux http://ur1.ca/mlue http://ur1.ca/mluf | Feb 18 00:12 | |
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Top #GNU #Linux Operating Systems for Sub-notebooks, #Jolicloud Impresses http://ur1.ca/mluj http://ur1.ca/mluk | Feb 18 00:13 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Top 5 Operating Systems for Netbooks | Notebooks.com .::. Size~: 37.99 KB | Feb 18 00:13 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Jolicloud A great Linux distro that - Best Latest Jolicloud A great Linux distro that Mobile Phone Price | Mobile Phones Reviews Features Online in India .::. Size~: 54.81 KB | Feb 18 00:13 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #iBad Alternative is a Good #GNU #Linux #Tablet http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10454499-1.html | Feb 18 00:14 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: OpenTablet 7 is Flash-friendly iPad alternative | Crave - CNET .::. Size~: 70.5 KB | Feb 18 00:14 |
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seller_liar | why gnumeric attacks odf? | Feb 18 00:14 |
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schestowitz | Don't know... | Feb 18 00:15 |
schestowitz | But they have always been dodgy | Feb 18 00:15 |
schestowitz | Roots in Miguel de la Microsoft | Feb 18 00:16 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #MeeGo Might Already be Producing #GNU #Linux #Tablets http://ur1.ca/mluw http://ur1.ca/mlux http://ur1.ca/mluy | Feb 18 00:16 | |
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schestowitz | http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Gnumeric-1-10-released-931715.html | Feb 18 00:19 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Gnumeric 1.10 released - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 30.53 KB | Feb 18 00:19 |
MinceR | http://xkcd.com/703/ | Feb 18 00:25 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: xkcd: Honor Societies .::. Size~: 8.27 KB | Feb 18 00:25 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] @_Goblin what would dickie davies say. | Feb 18 00:27 | |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware at an Inflexion Point -- Claim http://openceo.blogspot.com/2010/02/ive-got-feeling-is-open-source-at.html | Feb 18 00:27 | |
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Good Business Achieved with Free/Open Source Software http://ur1.ca/mlvt http://ur1.ca/mlvu | Feb 18 00:31 | |
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] still seriously getting my arse kicked with old school tom clancy ghost recon. Playing on the devils os. :) | Feb 18 00:33 | |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Sun/Oracle and GNU/Linux Coverge in Belgium Meeting http://ur1.ca/mlvw http://ur1.ca/mlvx | Feb 18 00:34 | |
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Millions in Funding for Free/Open Source Software Company http://www.mmdnewswire.com/openerp-7069.html | Feb 18 00:35 | |
oiaohm | http://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/02/17/1852234/Owners-Smash-iPhones-To-Get-Upgrades-Says-Insurance-Company << Human nature at work. | Feb 18 00:43 |
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] MINIX and BSD/UNIX/Solaris in the News http://ur1.ca/mlwr http://ur1.ca/mlws http://ur1.ca/mlwu http://ur1.ca/mlww | Feb 18 00:47 | |
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Google Gives Millions to #Wikipedia http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/17/google_wiki_gift/ | Feb 18 00:48 | |
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Gnumeric 1.10 is Out with Improved #ODF Support http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Gnumeric-1-10-released-931715.html | Feb 18 00:49 | |
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware in #Government , #India 's Good Example http://ur1.ca/mlxc http://ur1.ca/mlxd | Feb 18 00:50 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: What if politicians innovated the open source way? | opensource.com .::. Size~: 42.78 KB | Feb 18 00:50 |
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Good night all.....early start in the morning... | Feb 18 00:52 | |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware Luminary Richard Stallman Helps #Copyright Reform http://www.popcitymedia.com/innovationnews/stallman0217.aspx | Feb 18 00:52 | |
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Civil Rights Defended by All #Search Engines But #Microsoft http://ur1.ca/mlxn http://ur1.ca/mlxo | Feb 18 00:54 | |
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #NetNeutrality Guide and FUD http://ur1.ca/mlxq http://ur1.ca/mlxr http://ur1.ca/mlxs | Feb 18 00:55 | |
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schestowitz | MinceR: you can never escape the tautology club | Feb 18 01:08 |
MinceR | :> | Feb 18 01:10 |
FurnaceBoy | Rush? Is that you? http://www.flickr.com/photos/toastercide/3922866861/in/set-72157623251377670/ | Feb 18 01:11 |
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schestowitz | "@schestowitz After the In-N-Out Burger crash killed most of the exec team, most companies forbid execs to travel together." | Feb 18 01:12 |
schestowitz | "@schestowitz I'm not sure. But you don't usually have 3-5 execs sharing a car the way they do with planes. Do they work in same building?" | Feb 18 01:12 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] "I'm starting to think #Slashdot is just an index for #xkcd." https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1553826&cid=31176416 | Feb 18 01:14 | |
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MinceR | it's both worse and better than that. :> | Feb 18 01:14 |
oiaohm | Few companies like IBM use video hookups between lead execs | Feb 18 01:16 |
oiaohm | So not all the core are ever in one building. schestowitz | Feb 18 01:16 |
oiaohm | Heck not even in the same country. | Feb 18 01:16 |
oiaohm | Or they are designed like google. Where if worse came to worse each plex has enough management struct to keep operations running even if the rest are no more. | Feb 18 01:18 |
oiaohm | Small compaines are always at risk of exec team death. They don't have enough. | Feb 18 01:19 |
schestowitz | Microsoft loses a lot of staff without casualties | Feb 18 01:19 |
schestowitz | They abandon | Feb 18 01:19 |
oiaohm | Strange for abandon that lots remain pro MS when they get to other companies. | Feb 18 01:22 |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: low morale, but ppl stay because they are convinced it's "worse outside". | Feb 18 01:26 |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: cult mentality | Feb 18 01:27 |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: the analogy i posed some weeks ago with Scientology holds some water I think | Feb 18 01:27 |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: "We're Microsoft. We have the answers. Will that be cheque or credit card?" | Feb 18 01:28 |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: Levels. | Feb 18 01:28 |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: get closer to secrets, never quite reach... just one more rollout... just one more... | Feb 18 01:29 |
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schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: yes, they are like a cult | Feb 18 01:34 |
schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?q=site:boycottnovell.com+cult&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8&hl=en-GB | Feb 18 01:34 |
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yuhong | Prevx has the details on what exactly is happening: | Feb 18 01:38 |
yuhong | http://www.prevx.com/blog/143/BSOD-after-MS-TDL-authors-apologize.html | Feb 18 01:38 |
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Ender2070 | schestowitz - did you know that the canadian made a secret agreement with monsanto, canadians have had gmo foods for over 10 years | Feb 18 01:42 |
Ender2070 | canadian government* | Feb 18 01:42 |
Ender2070 | they tested them out on us | Feb 18 01:42 |
oiaohm | http://www.prevx.com/blog/139/Tdss-rootkit-silently-owns-the-net.html << Hmm Nice lie there. No anti-root kit able to by pass diskfiltering. There is a anti-rootkit that works. Boot from Linux and search for altered data on the raw filesystem. | Feb 18 01:52 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Tdss rootkit silently owns the net .::. Size~: 14.38 KB | Feb 18 01:52 |
FurnaceBoy | ^^ yep. reading. great link. | Feb 18 01:53 |
FurnaceBoy | i think yuhong sees this somehow as a good advertisement for Windows | Feb 18 01:53 |
oiaohm | yuhong also is wrong is not just the Tdss Rootkit with issue. | Feb 18 01:54 |
oiaohm | My form of system auditing items like rootkits don't hide. | Feb 18 01:54 |
oiaohm | There software to hide does not even get run. | Feb 18 01:54 |
oiaohm | The only thing I fear is a bios level rootkit. | Feb 18 01:54 |
FurnaceBoy | "International law police should really consider about cooperating with security vendors and try to shut down this botnet network by tracking down the gang behind it" HAHAHAHAHHAHA | Feb 18 01:55 |
oiaohm | Ok what is simpler. | Feb 18 01:55 |
oiaohm | Shutdown windows or find them. | Feb 18 01:55 |
oiaohm | Remember the old nortons and the like make boot floppys to scan machines for infections. | Feb 18 01:57 |
FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: right. the F-Secure Rescue CD follows this approach. Boots Linux and uses ntfs-3g | Feb 18 01:58 |
oiaohm | We now need boot dvd and drop the idea of scanning the core of the OS with signatures. | Feb 18 01:58 |
FurnaceBoy | I'm not afraid of BIOS rootkits; my machines don't have PC BIOS.. :) | Feb 18 01:58 |
oiaohm | Instead directly compare the core of the OS agaisnt what should be there. | Feb 18 01:58 |
oiaohm | It would be faster. | Feb 18 01:58 |
oiaohm | Ie HIDS method. | Feb 18 01:59 |
FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: http://www.f-secure.com/linux-weblog/2008/06/19/f-secure-rescue-cd-300-released/ | Feb 18 01:59 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: F-Secure Linux weblog » Blog Archive » F-Secure Rescue CD 3.00 released .::. Size~: 4.12 KB | Feb 18 01:59 |
oiaohm | Rootkit vs HIDS method normally equals one dead rootkit. | Feb 18 01:59 |
oiaohm | Really MS could release a HIDS scan system for windows. | Feb 18 02:00 |
FurnaceBoy | cost/benefit | Feb 18 02:01 |
oiaohm | Basically you defeat rootkits by removing there means to hid. | Feb 18 02:01 |
FurnaceBoy | malware isn't yet a threat to microsoft | Feb 18 02:01 |
FurnaceBoy | when users begin to see malware as a switching issue, we'll see more response | Feb 18 02:02 |
FurnaceBoy | so far, they think malware is a fact of life. | Feb 18 02:02 |
FurnaceBoy | hence the customary deletion of "microsoft" or "windows" from security reporting | Feb 18 02:02 |
FurnaceBoy | "My PC has a virus." | Feb 18 02:02 |
FurnaceBoy | "Oh, that's bad luck." | Feb 18 02:03 |
FurnaceBoy | "They say the next Windows will be more secure!" | Feb 18 02:03 |
FurnaceBoy | just like, "They say IE9 will be standards compliant!" | Feb 18 02:03 |
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FurnaceBoy | jweyrich: boa noite | Feb 18 02:04 |
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FurnaceBoy | so in fact the perception is that, irritations exist, but everyone has to suffer them | Feb 18 02:04 |
jweyrich | FurnaceBoy: boa noite! :) | Feb 18 02:04 |
FurnaceBoy | that's the beneficial untruth | Feb 18 02:04 |
jweyrich | thanks for the memo, I read about the rk. but it's very primitive :) | Feb 18 02:05 |
FurnaceBoy | jweyrich: was just being discussed here. yeah, typical 'vendor press release'. | Feb 18 02:05 |
FurnaceBoy | jweyrich: complete with 'if only the police would talk to us, we'd catch the bastards' ... until the next one comes along... | Feb 18 02:06 |
FurnaceBoy | jweyrich: some of these people surely think they are in a movie... maybe 'swordfish' ? :D | Feb 18 02:06 |
oiaohm | Lot of high level Linux admins don't use the reformat method. | Feb 18 02:08 |
jweyrich | the *hacker world* causes many *feelings* around the world. it's just like if it were a super-criminal thing, the most advanced thing. | Feb 18 02:08 |
FurnaceBoy | jweyrich: eys | Feb 18 02:08 |
FurnaceBoy | yes* | Feb 18 02:08 |
oiaohm | They use the HIDS method so rootkit techs get caught. | Feb 18 02:08 |
oiaohm | Lot of rootkits in Linux are starting to live in memory only. | Feb 18 02:08 |
oiaohm | Since living on disk equals found. | Feb 18 02:08 |
jweyrich | if Microsoft wants to get the author, it's as easy as taking candy from babies. | Feb 18 02:09 |
jweyrich | but they're dumb. | Feb 18 02:09 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @vibgyorfilm: Good Morning tweeps. Day 2 of #ViBGYOR2010 starts today 9.00am @sangeeta nataka academi campus, thrissur. | Feb 18 02:10 | |
oiaohm | Core OS infections that are impossiable to detect is a sign of a defective OS. | Feb 18 02:10 |
jweyrich | oiaohm: I'd say the architecture collaborates. | Feb 18 02:10 |
jweyrich | virtualization mainly. | Feb 18 02:11 |
jweyrich | rutkowska has proofed that in the past. | Feb 18 02:12 |
oiaohm | virtualization is not a 100 percent cure. | Feb 18 02:12 |
jweyrich | it isn't cure. | Feb 18 02:12 |
oiaohm | Systems are always taken off line at particular times. | Feb 18 02:12 |
jweyrich | it's the major problem :) | Feb 18 02:13 |
oiaohm | to do upgrades and the like. | Feb 18 02:13 |
oiaohm | In some cases you can rip the harddisk out put another in raid controller rebuilds. | Feb 18 02:13 |
jweyrich | take blue pill and *upgrade* it. | Feb 18 02:13 |
oiaohm | and you can hids that disk for any non approved alterations. | Feb 18 02:13 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Examples of #Microsoft Bias at #TheRegister http://boycottnovell.com/2010/02/17/the-register-anti-google/ | Feb 18 02:14 | |
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oiaohm | So meaning rootkits cannot store on disk. | Feb 18 02:14 |
oiaohm | So they have to stay memory only so die as soon as system is rebooted. | Feb 18 02:14 |
jweyrich | they don't need to be stored on disk. | Feb 18 02:14 |
oiaohm | Lack of long term storage gives them sorter lifes. | Feb 18 02:14 |
jweyrich | not as simple as it seems. | Feb 18 02:15 |
oiaohm | shorter lives | Feb 18 02:15 |
oiaohm | really the only area we cannot cover effectively is ram. | Feb 18 02:15 |
oiaohm | Bios's physical write protect switches protects them. | Feb 18 02:16 |
jweyrich | heh | Feb 18 02:16 |
jweyrich | hids isn't the final solution. | Feb 18 02:17 |
oiaohm | Code can only work if it has someone to run. jweyrich | Feb 18 02:17 |
oiaohm | For the core of the OS it is. jweyrich | Feb 18 02:17 |
jweyrich | rks can modify the hids itself. | Feb 18 02:17 |
jweyrich | no, it isn't. | Feb 18 02:17 |
schestowitz | [01:42] <Ender2070> schestowitz - did you know that the canadian made a secret agreement with monsanto, canadians have had gmo foods for over 10 years | Feb 18 02:17 |
oiaohm | Proper hids. | Feb 18 02:17 |
schestowitz | I thought they got busted | Feb 18 02:17 |
schestowitz | There was a hearing | Feb 18 02:17 |
oiaohm | Running from a clean OS core. jweyrich | Feb 18 02:17 |
schestowitz | And EU looked and took lessons | Feb 18 02:17 |
jweyrich | proper software can't be exploited. do they exist? | Feb 18 02:17 |
oiaohm | rks cannot do anything against that. | Feb 18 02:17 |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: Australia has similar history here, I think. | Feb 18 02:17 |
jweyrich | I think that sentence is also true for "proper hids" | Feb 18 02:17 |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: US corps own a lot of Australian arable land. | Feb 18 02:18 |
oiaohm | A proper hids setup attacker cannot get access to. | Feb 18 02:18 |
oiaohm | The hids system is basically read only core. | Feb 18 02:18 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] #ViBGYOR2010 comes with more than 100 films, miniconfs, campaign forums, workshops, and music nights | Feb 18 02:19 | |
jweyrich | microsoft can track the development by using putting a signature finder on their tuesday patches. | Feb 18 02:19 |
jweyrich | s/using// | Feb 18 02:19 |
oiaohm | Powerpc cpus are great for this. | Feb 18 02:19 |
oiaohm | Since they can run there OS with no ram at all. jweyrich | Feb 18 02:19 |
oiaohm | Ie cpu + rom chip. | Feb 18 02:19 |
oiaohm | Doing a package to package compare. | Feb 18 02:19 |
jweyrich | which OS runs without RAM? | Feb 18 02:19 |
oiaohm | A proper hids | Feb 18 02:19 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @tinblue If anyone remembers Blake's 7 I stumbled upon this video which I thought well done http://goo.gl/Qsf4 #blakes7 // great show! | Feb 18 02:20 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- "Blake's 7" - The Story of Avon & Blake .::. Size~: 119.89 KB | Feb 18 02:20 |
oiaohm | I did not say a proper hids has a OS under it. jweyrich | Feb 18 02:20 |
jweyrich | you mean it should be put inside the processor itself, L1, L2? | Feb 18 02:20 |
oiaohm | Yep. jweyrich | Feb 18 02:20 |
jweyrich | that will push the malware development to a new stage. | Feb 18 02:20 |
oiaohm | At that done rootkitting is impossiable. | Feb 18 02:21 |
jweyrich | but I'm not sure the vendors are prepared for this. they have no know-how. | Feb 18 02:21 |
oiaohm | They already exist in some high end Linux/Unix systems. | Feb 18 02:21 |
jweyrich | the ideal is to create a new architecture, focused on security. | Feb 18 02:21 |
jweyrich | IA fails epically. | Feb 18 02:22 |
oiaohm | Even allowing l1 and l2 to be ram. | Feb 18 02:22 |
jweyrich | epically <- new word? lol | Feb 18 02:22 |
oiaohm | powerpc chips are still solid. | Feb 18 02:22 |
oiaohm | When running from rom. | Feb 18 02:22 |
oiaohm | Since the protected state of the rom is transfered to the l1 and l2 ram protection states. | Feb 18 02:23 |
oiaohm | By CPU with no code way of altering. | Feb 18 02:23 |
oiaohm | IBM did design a great chip for the job. | Feb 18 02:23 |
jweyrich | they may create a new unit exclusively for that purpose. no need for L1 and L2. | Feb 18 02:24 |
jweyrich | it just needs to feed the branch prediction. | Feb 18 02:24 |
jweyrich | or the executor unit | Feb 18 02:24 |
oiaohm | What branch prediction. | Feb 18 02:24 |
oiaohm | PPC chips can operate without that. | Feb 18 02:24 |
oiaohm | The instructions are native to the cpu. | Feb 18 02:24 |
cubezzz | how about ARM motherboards for desktops? | Feb 18 02:24 |
cubezzz | are we going to get those? | Feb 18 02:25 |
jweyrich | not talking about RISC or PPC only. | Feb 18 02:25 |
oiaohm | Arm chips lack the protection for rom chips to l1 and l2 | Feb 18 02:25 |
oiaohm | But it could be added. | Feb 18 02:25 |
cubezzz | yeah but it seems there's nothing at all at the moment | Feb 18 02:26 |
oiaohm | x86 chips due to branch preduction crap is basically stuffed. | Feb 18 02:26 |
jweyrich | cubezzz: why would you want a desktop running ARM? | Feb 18 02:26 |
jweyrich | cortex is way too slow. | Feb 18 02:26 |
oiaohm | Also that smm and other branch prediuction crap in the x86 has also created cpu level OS breaching. jweyrich | Feb 18 02:26 |
oiaohm | Basically first thing stop running crap cpus. | Feb 18 02:27 |
oiaohm | Exactly what about a OS cores files should not be knowable. jweyrich | Feb 18 02:28 |
oiaohm | Hids fails in the likes of user home directories when the data is not predictable. | Feb 18 02:28 |
cubezzz | jweyrich, for the power savings, more efficiency | Feb 18 02:29 |
cubezzz | there is actually one I saw | Feb 18 02:29 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: same motive as Transmeta, methinks | Feb 18 02:29 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: they got pretty good power efficiency with Crusoe | Feb 18 02:29 |
cubezzz | current cpus are all power hogs | Feb 18 02:29 |
FurnaceBoy | yes | Feb 18 02:29 |
oiaohm | Even transmeta chip was not as power effective as arm or ppc in most cases. | Feb 18 02:30 |
*FurnaceBoy likes the SPARC Niagara | Feb 18 02:30 | |
jweyrich | cubezzz: well, A4 is ARM based. if you wish. | Feb 18 02:30 |
FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: they got very low for x86 tho | Feb 18 02:30 |
cubezzz | for example, imagine what you could do with a 1 gigahertz 6502 :) | Feb 18 02:30 |
oiaohm | Translating instructions costs a lot. | Feb 18 02:30 |
jweyrich | it's cortex 9. | Feb 18 02:30 |
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oiaohm | Low for x86 is not really that low. | Feb 18 02:30 |
jweyrich | A9* | Feb 18 02:30 |
cubezzz | A4? | Feb 18 02:30 |
FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: granted | Feb 18 02:30 |
jweyrich | yes, the ipad processor. | Feb 18 02:30 |
oiaohm | The ipad locked bit of crap. | Feb 18 02:30 |
oiaohm | Linux guys like to be able to customise thier stuff. | Feb 18 02:31 |
cubezzz | I bet my computers are responsible for a major chunk of my electric bill | Feb 18 02:31 |
jweyrich | well, you can customize your kernel, and so on :) | Feb 18 02:31 |
jweyrich | it's just mac inside. | Feb 18 02:31 |
cubezzz | except for the zaurus, which is like 5 watts :) | Feb 18 02:32 |
jweyrich | but I wouldn't buy one. | Feb 18 02:32 |
cubezzz | Athlon was another piggie cpu | Feb 18 02:32 |
jweyrich | cubezzz: probably your 10k RPM hdds, and your ATI/NV vcard + your 27" display. | Feb 18 02:33 |
FurnaceBoy | Efficeon came in two package types: a 783- and a 592-contact ball grid array. Its power consumption was moderate (with some consuming as little as 3 watts at 1 GHz and 7 watts at 1.5 GHz), so it could be passively cooled. | Feb 18 02:33 |
cubezzz | nah, I only have a 17" LCD | Feb 18 02:33 |
jweyrich | well, you can always consider paying a shaker :D | Feb 18 02:34 |
cubezzz | there's 800 mhz netwalker, but it's not desktop | Feb 18 02:35 |
jweyrich | our current processors are so powerful, but current OSes fuck them. | Feb 18 02:36 |
cubezzz | jweyrich, stuff like this is interesting: | Feb 18 02:36 |
cubezzz | http://www.iyonix.com/ | Feb 18 02:36 |
jweyrich | risc os. haha. | Feb 18 02:37 |
jweyrich | it's like being the anarchy. | Feb 18 02:38 |
cubezzz | no more wintel for me :) | Feb 18 02:38 |
FurnaceBoy | :) | Feb 18 02:38 |
cubezzz | and really is x86 that great? | Feb 18 02:39 |
cubezzz | I don't think so | Feb 18 02:39 |
FurnaceBoy | accidental success | Feb 18 02:39 |
jweyrich | unix86 ftw. | Feb 18 02:39 |
cubezzz | I miss my 6502 | Feb 18 02:40 |
*jweyrich waits for a better arch. | Feb 18 02:40 | |
FurnaceBoy | like windows, the die was cast by political machinations | Feb 18 02:40 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: i used to write a lot of 6502 assembler on BBC Micro | Feb 18 02:40 |
cubezzz | yeah, c64 and vic20 for me | Feb 18 02:40 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: it's one of those machines where hand asm is fun. | Feb 18 02:40 |
cubezzz | exactly | Feb 18 02:40 |
jweyrich | let's buy some Cells and buy a new ps3 cluster. | Feb 18 02:41 |
jweyrich | spes & ppes are cool | Feb 18 02:41 |
cubezzz | imagine if Commodore never went bankrupt, how cool are computers would be today | Feb 18 02:41 |
FurnaceBoy | jweyrich: did you see the data on new IBM POWER and SPARC Niagara generations? | Feb 18 02:41 |
jweyrich | FurnaceBoy: no. | Feb 18 02:42 |
FurnaceBoy | jweyrich: arstechica | Feb 18 02:42 |
jweyrich | today? | Feb 18 02:42 |
FurnaceBoy | no, a week or so ago | Feb 18 02:42 |
FurnaceBoy | very nice | Feb 18 02:42 |
jweyrich | oh. will check | Feb 18 02:42 |
*FurnaceBoy would love a T1000 or T2000 to play with | Feb 18 02:42 | |
oiaohm | Sparc and IBM Power are having to compete against tile gx chips. | Feb 18 02:42 |
FurnaceBoy | i might buy a 1st gen on ebay someday :) | Feb 18 02:42 |
Ender2070 | i would love a t-1000 | Feb 18 02:42 |
cubezzz | years ago, everyone was talking up RISC, now it seems everything is x86 more than ever | Feb 18 02:43 |
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oiaohm | x86 is risc internally. cubezzz | Feb 18 02:43 |
jweyrich | what? | Feb 18 02:43 |
FurnaceBoy | we had this argument a while back. :) | Feb 18 02:43 |
FurnaceBoy | jweyrich: the microarchitecture is | Feb 18 02:43 |
FurnaceBoy | jweyrich: it's the only way to pull the trick off | Feb 18 02:43 |
oiaohm | All x86 instructions going into intel and amd chips have to be translated to internal risc | Feb 18 02:43 |
cubezzz | why not just go RISC? :) | Feb 18 02:44 |
cubezzz | seems simpler | Feb 18 02:44 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: economics/politics | Feb 18 02:44 |
oiaohm | Windows. | Feb 18 02:44 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: economics of scale, mass production, and Windows, yes. | Feb 18 02:44 |
cubezzz | bah, windows is always the problem | Feb 18 02:44 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: also see - "worse is better," etc. | Feb 18 02:44 |
jweyrich | well, I can't discuss on that, don't really know how the opcodes are handled internally. | Feb 18 02:44 |
FurnaceBoy | jweyrich: there have been a few iterations of microarchitecture; wikipedia has a history of it | Feb 18 02:45 |
oiaohm | The translation is why a precdiction engine is required. jweyrich | Feb 18 02:45 |
FurnaceBoy | jweyrich: but yeah AMD and INtel do it, AMD used this to gain early performance edge | Feb 18 02:45 |
jweyrich | prediction isn't made for that. | Feb 18 02:45 |
FurnaceBoy | speculative execution | Feb 18 02:45 |
jweyrich | yes, but it's for performance. | Feb 18 02:45 |
cubezzz | what about intel's Xscale cpu? Was that RISC? | Feb 18 02:45 |
oiaohm | AMD are changing there caches over in there new design. | Feb 18 02:45 |
jweyrich | nothing else. | Feb 18 02:45 |
FurnaceBoy | jweyrich: the whole game is performance :) | Feb 18 02:45 |
oiaohm | So the translate is done as the data is moved into l2 cache. | Feb 18 02:46 |
jweyrich | but it isn't related to the translation itself. | Feb 18 02:46 |
FurnaceBoy | jweyrich: the microarchitecture is where the battle is fought now | Feb 18 02:46 |
oiaohm | It is really. | Feb 18 02:46 |
FurnaceBoy | jweyrich: and for the past decade, really | Feb 18 02:46 |
cubezzz | people are too fixated on speed | Feb 18 02:46 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: yes | Feb 18 02:46 |
oiaohm | You don't have bad branch prediction on arm cpu's or 486's jweyrich | Feb 18 02:46 |
oiaohm | Reason both are native. | Feb 18 02:46 |
oiaohm | You have bad l1 and l2 cache prediction. | Feb 18 02:47 |
jweyrich | heh | Feb 18 02:47 |
jweyrich | l1 and l2 are just used to diminish FSB latency. | Feb 18 02:48 |
jweyrich | branch prediction is just the player behind the caches. | Feb 18 02:48 |
oiaohm | Why does a cpu need a que of instructions. | Feb 18 02:48 |
oiaohm | The l1 cache is a que. | Feb 18 02:49 |
jweyrich | RISC had branch prediction as well. | Feb 18 02:49 |
cubezzz | a cpu that doesn't run hot would be nice | Feb 18 02:49 |
jweyrich | had, or still has. | Feb 18 02:49 |
oiaohm | RISC branch prediction controls preheading into cache. | Feb 18 02:49 |
cubezzz | like: no fan required :) | Feb 18 02:49 |
oiaohm | And it a lot longer than 12 and 8 instructions long. | Feb 18 02:50 |
jweyrich | so, where the translation comes in in the branch prediction thing? | Feb 18 02:50 |
jweyrich | translation is pre-execution. | Feb 18 02:50 |
oiaohm | The branch prediction controls what most x86 cpus translate. | Feb 18 02:51 |
oiaohm | To native. | Feb 18 02:51 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: how fast? | Feb 18 02:51 |
oiaohm | Instead of like a risc just controlling the cache contents. jweyrich | Feb 18 02:51 |
jweyrich | surely it does, but translation isn't the reason for a branch predictor. | Feb 18 02:51 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: you could buy a G4 Cube to suit your nick, they had no fan. :) | Feb 18 02:52 |
jweyrich | without translation, you can still have a branch predictor. | Feb 18 02:52 |
oiaohm | Where the branch prediction is in the x86 it is jweyrich | Feb 18 02:52 |
oiaohm | Its techically in the wrong place. | Feb 18 02:52 |
cubezzz | fans fail | Feb 18 02:52 |
jweyrich | now we're making some progress on the discussion | Feb 18 02:52 |
cubezzz | mechanical parts always fail, especially fans | Feb 18 02:52 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: what about the G4 CUbe idea? :) | Feb 18 02:53 |
oiaohm | You think branch prediction 12 instructions in advance. jweyrich | Feb 18 02:53 |
oiaohm | That is not a lot. | Feb 18 02:53 |
cubezzz | nah, I like ARM :) | Feb 18 02:53 |
oiaohm | So is really simple to covert 12 instructions and have the first instruction jump off to another path. jweyrich | Feb 18 02:53 |
oiaohm | So having to dump all 11 instructions that were converted. | Feb 18 02:54 |
oiaohm | Every conversion like that is generating heat. | Feb 18 02:54 |
oiaohm | And wasting power. | Feb 18 02:54 |
cubezzz | there's no reason you need these super fast cpus for a web server | Feb 18 02:55 |
oiaohm | Even worse the conversion engine runs on a microcode(a byte code saying how to do the conversion) | Feb 18 02:55 |
cubezzz | ARM can do it | Feb 18 02:55 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: for low power, hi throughput web servers: SPARC Niagara | Feb 18 02:55 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: it's what it's designed for. | Feb 18 02:55 |
cubezzz | how much? | Feb 18 02:55 |
oiaohm | Same with tile gx chips FurnaceBoy | Feb 18 02:55 |
FurnaceBoy | the first gen was ~ 75W, but it runs 8 hw threads per core | Feb 18 02:56 |
FurnaceBoy | the current gen is much more powerful | Feb 18 02:56 |
FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: except they don't run Solaris :) | Feb 18 02:56 |
oiaohm | tile gx chips first generation. 100 cores single thead 1.5 ghz max power 55 W | Feb 18 02:56 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: http://www.sun.com/processors/UltraSPARC-T2/ | Feb 18 02:57 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: UltraSPARC T2 Processor - Overview .::. Size~: 25.08 KB | Feb 18 02:57 |
oiaohm | http://www.tilera.com/products/TILE-Gx.php | Feb 18 02:57 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Tilera Corporation .::. Size~: 17.02 KB | Feb 18 02:57 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: and the latest gen: http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2010/02/two-billion-transistor-beasts-power7-and-niagara-3.ars | Feb 18 02:57 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Two billion-transistor beasts: POWER7 and Niagara 3 .::. Size~: 33.5 KB | Feb 18 02:57 |
FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: I want to be able to run Solaris on a web server. | Feb 18 02:57 |
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oiaohm | Me Linux with segmenation FurnaceBoy | Feb 18 02:58 |
FurnaceBoy | i want better facilities. zones, zfs, etc. | Feb 18 02:58 |
oiaohm | tile gx splits cpus off into blocks. | Feb 18 02:59 |
oiaohm | So OS crashs in one of those blocks the rest goes along uneffected. | Feb 18 02:59 |
FurnaceBoy | hm, looks like that arstechnica article is about the only good info around atm | Feb 18 02:59 |
FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: yeah, I use Erlang :) | Feb 18 02:59 |
FurnaceBoy | the subject of erlang on tilera comes up on the list | Feb 18 03:00 |
oiaohm | Big thing with tile chips you don't have network card to cpu issues. | Feb 18 03:01 |
oiaohm | Just weld a scary big network card straight in the cpu. | Feb 18 03:02 |
FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: Niagara does that too. | Feb 18 03:02 |
FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: PCIe and GbE on board | Feb 18 03:02 |
oiaohm | 40Gbe x2 in the tile gx | Feb 18 03:03 |
FurnaceBoy | nice | Feb 18 03:03 |
FurnaceBoy | that's for backplane, presumably | Feb 18 03:03 |
oiaohm | That can be reconfigted. | Feb 18 03:04 |
shreddar | Hey, does anyone here think Google will make VP8 (and previous versions) royalty free after the On2 deal finalises? | Feb 18 03:04 |
oiaohm | To like 8 10 GBe and 32 Gbe ports FurnaceBoy | Feb 18 03:04 |
FurnaceBoy | i see | Feb 18 03:05 |
oiaohm | As I say big scary network. | Feb 18 03:05 |
FurnaceBoy | so it's a great HPC building block | Feb 18 03:05 |
oiaohm | card. | Feb 18 03:05 |
oiaohm | The other chips need to get one. | Feb 18 03:05 |
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oiaohm | Basically by the time you need to use the PCI-e ports on the tile gx for network cards it time to get worried. | Feb 18 03:07 |
oiaohm | So I guess you can now see my issue with the sparc chip. Little lacking in the network connect department. | Feb 18 03:09 |
FurnaceBoy | not for many intended uses, though | Feb 18 03:12 |
FurnaceBoy | it's a good fit for web/db server | Feb 18 03:12 |
FurnaceBoy | with that workload, you can't easily saturate Gb links | Feb 18 03:12 |
oiaohm | I would not say that. | Feb 18 03:13 |
FurnaceBoy | and it runs everything off the shelf, which is a plus | Feb 18 03:13 |
FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: the presumption is that a request involves enough work that it's compute bound | Feb 18 03:13 |
oiaohm | tile gx are for likes of sites that want to send like live broadcasts to the net and the like. | Feb 18 03:13 |
FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: or disk bound... not network. small payloads. | Feb 18 03:13 |
FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: totally different case | Feb 18 03:14 |
FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: i am talking about typical web/db with small payloads, which is the most common case | Feb 18 03:14 |
oiaohm | Only thing that annoys me is not being able to drop a good video card on tile gx. | Feb 18 03:14 |
oiaohm | Tile gx also work well when you are doing network storage lots of. | Feb 18 03:15 |
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oiaohm | Normally I don't run a server single FurnaceBoy | Feb 18 03:21 |
oiaohm | That is why I like 40 Gbe interconnects. So network based raiding runs very well. | Feb 18 03:22 |
shreddar | Hey here's another Dilbert I think you guy's'd like: | Feb 18 03:25 |
shreddar | http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2003-01-20/ | Feb 18 03:25 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Dilbert comic strip for 01/20/2003 from the official Dilbert comic strips archive. .::. Size~: 20.81 KB | Feb 18 03:25 |
jweyrich | hell. literally slept on the keybd. | Feb 18 03:28 |
jweyrich | night everyone | Feb 18 03:28 |
FurnaceBoy | nite!~ | Feb 18 03:29 |
cubezzz | later | Feb 18 03:29 |
*jweyrich has quit (Quit: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa) | Feb 18 03:29 | |
*oiaohm has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Feb 18 03:29 | |
shreddar | Here's another good one: | Feb 18 03:36 |
shreddar | http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2003-01-25/ | Feb 18 03:36 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Dilbert comic strip for 01/25/2003 from the official Dilbert comic strips archive. .::. Size~: 20.75 KB | Feb 18 03:36 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft is Still Attacking Free/Open Source Software with #Security #FUD http://boycottnovell.com/2010/02/17/microsoft-on-many-eyeballs/ | Feb 18 03:47 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsoft is Still Attacking Free/Open Source Software With Security FUD | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 97.23 KB | Feb 18 03:47 |
*shreddar has quit (Quit: Page closed) | Feb 18 04:05 | |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More evidence and new stories told about how #Microsoft #Windows deficiencies lead to loss of life http://ur1.ca/mmet | Feb 18 04:17 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Yes, Windows Causes Deaths Sometimes | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 90.21 KB | Feb 18 04:17 |
cubezzz | umm | Feb 18 04:20 |
cubezzz | ok how does doze cause death? | Feb 18 04:21 |
FurnaceBoy | eh? | Feb 18 04:21 |
FurnaceBoy | when it's deployed in mission critical systems -- infrastructure, hospitals, power plants, etc, etc | Feb 18 04:22 |
FurnaceBoy | is just one case | Feb 18 04:22 |
FurnaceBoy | all these are subject to the ordinary windows problems | Feb 18 04:22 |
FurnaceBoy | i didn't read Roy's link, but common sense says that windows takes lives every day | Feb 18 04:22 |
FurnaceBoy | follow comp.risks and you can get specific cases | Feb 18 04:22 |
cubezzz | huh, well then if it's _critical_ why are they using doze? That just seems negligent | Feb 18 04:23 |
FurnaceBoy | most people just don't consider all the places where windows is used where public safety is concerned | Feb 18 04:23 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: of course it is | Feb 18 04:23 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: but people use windows in all kinds of inappropriate uses | Feb 18 04:23 |
cubezzz | I bet the mars probe didn't use doze :) | Feb 18 04:24 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: even those specifically prohibited by its EULA | Feb 18 04:24 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: they like to use Vxworks etc | Feb 18 04:24 |
FurnaceBoy | how do you get the bot to google? | Feb 18 04:24 |
cubezzz | what bot? :) | Feb 18 04:25 |
FurnaceBoy | the back issues of this http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/risks give a lot of specific incidents | Feb 18 04:25 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: The Catless Web Server - Bifurcated Rivets, Zircon, Risks, theVirtual Memorial Garden .::. Size~: 2.64 KB | Feb 18 04:25 |
cubezzz | ok, I can see doze in hospitals as being very bad | Feb 18 04:25 |
FurnaceBoy | and it's IN hospitals. it's IN transit. it's IN energy infra. | Feb 18 04:25 |
FurnaceBoy | it's everywhere | Feb 18 04:25 |
cubezzz | doze is bad anywhere | Feb 18 04:25 |
FurnaceBoy | of course it's stupid and dangerous and negligent. | Feb 18 04:25 |
FurnaceBoy | it's in WARSHIPS | Feb 18 04:26 |
FurnaceBoy | and submarines | Feb 18 04:26 |
FurnaceBoy | and yes, controlling weapons | Feb 18 04:26 |
cubezzz | the US mil uses Linux though | Feb 18 04:26 |
FurnaceBoy | in some places. | Feb 18 04:26 |
cubezzz | I know that for sure | Feb 18 04:26 |
FurnaceBoy | sure they do. | Feb 18 04:26 |
FurnaceBoy | of course they use a whole swathe of operating systems | Feb 18 04:26 |
cubezzz | when it has to work, don't use doze :) | Feb 18 04:26 |
FurnaceBoy | Solaris, BSD, everything | Feb 18 04:26 |
cubezzz | right, just like Bell | Feb 18 04:26 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: http://www.google.ca/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=windows+for+warships&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 | Feb 18 04:27 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: windows for warships - Google Search .::. Size~: 27.54 KB | Feb 18 04:27 |
cubezzz | what do the nukes use? :) | Feb 18 04:27 |
cubezzz | just curious, you know :) | Feb 18 04:27 |
FurnaceBoy | probably mostly specialised embedded stuff. | Feb 18 04:27 |
FurnaceBoy | certainly not consumer o/s :) | Feb 18 04:27 |
cubezzz | Windows for Warships, lol | Feb 18 04:27 |
cubezzz | Sir, we got a BSOD _again_ | Feb 18 04:28 |
FurnaceBoy | NASA uses vxworks in probes, and probably other things | Feb 18 04:28 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: YES, ships have been grounded and damaged due to Windows issues | Feb 18 04:28 |
FurnaceBoy | it's only a matter of time before weapons systems are compromised or fail | Feb 18 04:28 |
FurnaceBoy | all of the infrastructural cases above have suffered due to viruses | Feb 18 04:29 |
cubezzz | I thought the UK would have more sense | Feb 18 04:29 |
FurnaceBoy | in some cases, very close to reactor safety systems | Feb 18 04:29 |
FurnaceBoy | hospitals are commonly suffering service degradation outages due to windows | Feb 18 04:29 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: the engineers protested, and were fired | Feb 18 04:29 |
cubezzz | at least don't connect the hopstials to the web | Feb 18 04:29 |
FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: money talks | Feb 18 04:29 |
cubezzz | that's just stupid | Feb 18 04:29 |
FurnaceBoy | http://www.slothmud.org/~hayward/mic_humor/nt_navy.html | Feb 18 04:30 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: multiplayer free online rpg game :: text based rpg game .::. Size~: 77.53 KB | Feb 18 04:30 |
FurnaceBoy | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMCS#SMCS-NG_as_first_deployment_of_.22Windows_for_Warships.22 | Feb 18 04:30 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: SMCS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 35.13 KB | Feb 18 04:30 |
cubezzz | knowing just what _I_ know I would never put doze in anything :) | Feb 18 04:30 |
FurnaceBoy | and I agree. | Feb 18 04:30 |
FurnaceBoy | but people do. | Feb 18 04:31 |
cubezzz | I kicked it out of my house :) | Feb 18 04:31 |
FurnaceBoy | money talks. | Feb 18 04:31 |
FurnaceBoy | http://www.geeknews.net/2008/12/18/royal-navy-completes-windows-for-submarines-rollout | Feb 18 04:31 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Royal Navy Completes Windows for Submarines™ Rollout « Geeknews .::. Size~: 38.94 KB | Feb 18 04:31 |
cubezzz | FurnaceBoy, I know a few guys who never use a non-text browser even | Feb 18 04:32 |
FurnaceBoy | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/10/11/windowsbased_destroyer_to_dominate_littoral/ | Feb 18 04:32 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Windows-based destroyer to dominate littoral battlespace • The Register .::. Size~: 23.49 KB | Feb 18 04:32 |
cubezzz | I have to admit, it's a heck of a lot faster | Feb 18 04:32 |
FurnaceBoy | "Our addition to the DD 21 Blue Team validates the paradigm shift Microsoft has undergone over the last two years," said Willie Williamson, Programs Director, Microsoft Federal. "We now actively participate in complex solutions for many of the various military functions, including weapons systems and command and control" (our emphasis). | Feb 18 04:32 |
cubezzz | MicroSoft Federal?? what is that? | Feb 18 04:33 |
cubezzz | it sounds like it's the government :) | Feb 18 04:33 |
FurnaceBoy | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/09/22/windows_for_warfare_more_info/ | Feb 18 04:33 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Windows for Warfare – more info on Win2k's Navy carrier gig • The Register .::. Size~: 21.44 KB | Feb 18 04:33 |
cubezzz | surely they stopped using win2k? | Feb 18 04:34 |
FurnaceBoy | Microsoft is working as a subcontractor with Lockheed Martin to develop the carrier's integrated warfare systems, and 'Windows for Warfare' will run a variety of systems, including communications, aircraft and weapons launchers, and ship's electronics. | Feb 18 04:34 |
FurnaceBoy | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/07/18/us_navy_carrier_to_adopt/ | Feb 18 04:34 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: US Navy carrier to adopt Win2k infrastructure • The Register .::. Size~: 19.85 KB | Feb 18 04:34 |
FurnaceBoy | l run a variety of systems, including communications, aircraft and ? | Feb 18 04:34 |
FurnaceBoy | weapons launchers, and ship's electronics. ? | Feb 18 04:34 |
FurnaceBoy | oops | Feb 18 04:35 |
FurnaceBoy | The CVN 77 is being built by Newport News Shipbuilding Inc., and that name may be familiar to you. Yes, that's right, a little while back Bill Gates invested in... Newport News Shipbuilding Inc. He holds an eight per cent stake. Newport News Shipbuilding is one of only two companies in the US which are capable of building nuclear submarines, and has built ten of the last 12 aircraft carriers | Feb 18 04:35 |
FurnaceBoy | commissioned by the US navy. | Feb 18 04:35 |
FurnaceBoy | jokes are superfluous... | Feb 18 04:35 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @vibgyorfilm: Good Morning tweeps. Day 2 of #ViBGYOR2010 starts today 9.00am @sangeeta nataka academi campus, thrissur. Be there | Feb 18 04:38 | |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @vibgyorfilm: Delegate fee 4 southasia's most noticed alternate short & documentary festival is Rs100(~2.2$). Student' pass Rs50 #ViBGYOR | Feb 18 04:38 | |
cubezzz | well security is important obviously | Feb 18 04:39 |
cubezzz | I monitor my server closely | Feb 18 04:40 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] Follow @vibgyorfilm & #ViBGYOR2010 for official updates from 5th ViBGYOR International Short & Documentary Festival 2010 | Feb 18 04:42 | |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] #vibgyor2010 dr.Binayak sen inagurated 5th ViBGYOR short and documentary festival yesterday. Ilina sen did it last year!.. | Feb 18 04:46 | |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] #Fructose, ubiquitous sweetener, much worse than you may think; likened to eating fat http://bit.ly/ajiTwW #food #diet #health #sugar #hfcs | Feb 18 04:54 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Dr. Joseph Mercola: Sugar May Be Bad But This Sweetener Is Far More Deadly .::. Size~: 168.77 KB | Feb 18 04:54 |
FurnaceBoy | the first security measure is avoid windows :) | Feb 18 04:57 |
Ender2070 | :D | Feb 18 05:05 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] #US, #China among world's largest consumers of smuggled [illegal, endangered] #wildlife species. http://bit.ly/arYkcM | Feb 18 05:08 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Endangered Species on the Grill: The Black Market in Illegal Meat Flourishes in the US | Food | AlterNet .::. Size~: 115.35 KB | Feb 18 05:08 |
Ender2070 | yum yum | Feb 18 05:08 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] #Vibgyor2010 I met Binayaksen for first time on yesterday. : | Feb 18 05:09 | |
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cubezzz | read about this person: | Feb 18 05:36 |
cubezzz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooksley_Born | Feb 18 05:36 |
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Ender2070 | cool | Feb 18 05:39 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] #ViBGYOR2010 Created a list of ViBGYOR Tweeters . Follow it http://twitter.com/anivar/vibgyor | Feb 18 05:41 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Twitter / @anivar/ViBGYOR .::. Size~: 40.28 KB | Feb 18 05:41 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] #ViBGYOR2010 Created a list of ViBGYOR Tweeters . Follow it http://twitter.com/anivar/vibgyor Plz point if i missed anyone | Feb 18 05:43 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Twitter / @anivar/ViBGYOR .::. Size~: 40.39 KB | Feb 18 05:43 |
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*DaemonFC smacks FurnaceBoy with an "enhancedCD" | Feb 18 06:06 | |
DaemonFC | I just got back from WalleyWorld and noticed that Sony is back at it | Feb 18 06:07 |
DaemonFC | fake CDs and all that | Feb 18 06:07 |
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DaemonFC | I shall call them CancerCDs | Feb 18 06:07 |
DaemonFC | http://forum.zomgstuff.net/showthread.php?p=208999#post208999 | Feb 18 06:35 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Mr. Hasselhoff Wants Us to Strip Naked While the Server is Undergoing Maintenance? - ZomgStuff Forum .::. Size~: 54.41 KB | Feb 18 06:35 |
DaemonFC | lol | Feb 18 06:35 |
DaemonFC | text message, Him: "So I guess I'll just go home." (misspelled though) | Feb 18 07:11 |
DaemonFC | Me: There is a high probability that you are intoxicated, and that going home would be the best course of action." | Feb 18 07:11 |
DaemonFC | lol | Feb 18 07:11 |
Ender2070 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njj9Pi1AahE | Feb 18 07:25 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- Funniest Scene EVER in kenny and spenny .::. Size~: 115.58 KB | Feb 18 07:25 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070, I think that's the first time I've ever said that | Feb 18 07:26 |
DaemonFC | I feel good about myself | Feb 18 07:26 |
DaemonFC | "I can't stop you from doing stupid things, but I'll have no part of it" | Feb 18 07:26 |
DaemonFC | I feel empowered | Feb 18 07:26 |
Ender2070 | You know who else felt empowered? | Feb 18 07:26 |
DaemonFC | Hitler | Feb 18 07:27 |
Ender2070 | The Devil! | Feb 18 07:27 |
Ender2070 | and Hitler | Feb 18 07:27 |
DaemonFC | Hitler is way cooler than the devil though | Feb 18 07:30 |
DaemonFC | Hitler really existed and was true evil in his time | Feb 18 07:30 |
DaemonFC | :) | Feb 18 07:30 |
cubezzz | more evil than Gates? :) | Feb 18 07:32 |
cubezzz | yeah I guess he was actually | Feb 18 07:32 |
DaemonFC | Actually, all this started when the prince of darkness managed to trick a woman | Feb 18 07:32 |
cubezzz | but Gates will be around to bug us for a longer period of time | Feb 18 07:32 |
DaemonFC | I mean how hard could that have been? | Feb 18 07:32 |
DaemonFC | He's evil incarnate. | Feb 18 07:32 |
Ender2070 | nah Hitler just copied Stalin | Feb 18 07:32 |
DaemonFC | She's a woman and plotting against Adam | Feb 18 07:33 |
cubezzz | even if Gates is less evil than Hitler doesn't mean I like him :) | Feb 18 07:33 |
cubezzz | yes but did Adam have a belly button? | Feb 18 07:33 |
cubezzz | no one asks about that | Feb 18 07:33 |
DaemonFC | Men can't really be as deceitful as women, it's just not in us. | Feb 18 07:34 |
DaemonFC | so the devil picked her and not him because Adam, as a man, would see right through the devil | Feb 18 07:34 |
DaemonFC | The devil probably got through to Eve through the shop at home TV channel | Feb 18 07:35 |
DaemonFC | and they had apples on fucking easy pay | Feb 18 07:35 |
cubezzz | well that explains Dahmer doesn't it? Just blame the Devil | Feb 18 07:35 |
cubezzz | "The Devil made me do it" | Feb 18 07:36 |
DaemonFC | and all of a sudden a package arrived and Adam's all like "Oh fuck, not another one, God damn it, you think I'm made of money!?!?" | Feb 18 07:36 |
DaemonFC | and Eve is all like "Try a bite honey, they said we could send it back if we don't like it!" | Feb 18 07:36 |
DaemonFC | and that's the first lie that the devil told | Feb 18 07:36 |
DaemonFC | hence, king of lies | Feb 18 07:36 |
DaemonFC | ahhh | Feb 18 07:49 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070, Don't you find it funny that the DA only re-opens accusations of police misconduct 20-25 years later | Feb 18 07:49 |
DaemonFC | when the officers complained about are no 90 years old or dead and they can't be in any trouble | Feb 18 07:49 |
tessier__ | You guys see that city in Virginia who lost something like 800 Windows boxes? | Feb 18 07:50 |
DaemonFC | http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9158499/City_of_Norfolk_hit_with_code_that_takes_out_nearly_800_PCs?taxonomyId=16 | Feb 18 07:51 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: City of Norfolk hit with code that takes out nearly 800 PCs .::. Size~: 120.37 KB | Feb 18 07:51 |
tessier__ | Yep | Feb 18 07:51 |
DaemonFC | cool | Feb 18 07:51 |
DaemonFC | what a wonderful ad for Microsoft software | Feb 18 07:51 |
DaemonFC | maybe they'll do better next time | Feb 18 07:51 |
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DaemonFC | hmmm, I wonder if Ubuntu could have just put a custom Google in like Mint did | Feb 18 08:14 |
DaemonFC | http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20100208#feature | Feb 18 08:27 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: DistroWatch.com: Put the fun back into computing. Use Linux, BSD. .::. Size~: 85.96 KB | Feb 18 08:27 |
DaemonFC | PC-BSD interview | Feb 18 08:27 |
DaemonFC | http://kerneltrap.org/OpenBSD/That_Which_We_Call_Free | Feb 18 08:32 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: That Which We Call Free | KernelTrap .::. Size~: 61.21 KB | Feb 18 08:32 |
DaemonFC | RMS pwned, oldie | Feb 18 08:32 |
cubezzz | no | Feb 18 08:37 |
cubezzz | the BSD license sucks | Feb 18 08:37 |
cubezzz | he's still right, but he expressed it wrong | Feb 18 08:37 |
cubezzz | he probably should have said something like "OpenBSD doesn't protect your freedom" | Feb 18 08:38 |
cubezzz | that's the whole reason why GNU exists, distinct from the BSDs | Feb 18 08:38 |
cubezzz | but even better than that, he should probably say nothing | Feb 18 08:39 |
cubezzz | re: BSD | Feb 18 08:39 |
cubezzz | if one doesn't write code they probably don't even care | Feb 18 08:41 |
cubezzz | anyway, you got to be careful with the binary blob stuff | Feb 18 08:43 |
cubezzz | e.g. I can't mod the sd reader on zaurus | Feb 18 08:44 |
cubezzz | it's a blob | Feb 18 08:44 |
DaemonFC | the BSD license does make something "free" in RMS's own definition | Feb 18 08:48 |
DaemonFC | RMS yet has to find a reason to bitch even though he won't go and look and see that there's no non-free stuff in OpenBSD | Feb 18 08:48 |
DaemonFC | he complains about straw men and attacks one he created in the same thread | Feb 18 08:48 |
DaemonFC | "I can't be bothered to figure out if you're doing bad things or no, so I'll say you're guilty", teally it's because it's not a GNU variant | Feb 18 08:49 |
DaemonFC | *really | Feb 18 08:49 |
DaemonFC | RMS would be attacking Linux right and left if they didn't depend on it for their software to do anything | Feb 18 08:49 |
DaemonFC | he's managed to muzzle his opinions about Linux about 99% of the time | Feb 18 08:50 |
DaemonFC | http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22052 | Feb 18 09:06 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Catalyst 10.2 is out - Phoronix Forums .::. Size~: 57.7 KB | Feb 18 09:06 |
*DaemonFC goes to snag it | Feb 18 09:06 | |
DaemonFC | maybe it supports X Server 1.7? | Feb 18 09:07 |
DaemonFC | there's no release notes | Feb 18 09:07 |
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DaemonFC | wow, Compiz is a lot smoother | Feb 18 09:12 |
DaemonFC | much less tearing | Feb 18 09:12 |
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Ender2070 | nouveau has 3d | Feb 18 09:33 |
DaemonFC | apparently Catalyst 10.2 still won't work on X server 1.7 | Feb 18 09:34 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070, http://phoronix.com/forums/showpost.php?p=113079&postcount=41 | Feb 18 09:36 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Phoronix Forums - View Single Post - Catalyst 10.2 is out .::. Size~: 9.42 KB | Feb 18 09:36 |
DaemonFC | best post ever | Feb 18 09:36 |
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Ender2070 | ROFL | Feb 18 09:47 |
DaemonFC | FGLRX, the worst thing to come out of Canada since......The Final Sacrifice!!!! | Feb 18 09:52 |
DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgKwPrm7DYQ | Feb 18 09:53 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- MST3K - The Final Sacrifice: The Canada Song .::. Size~: 124.38 KB | Feb 18 09:53 |
DaemonFC | I think he got a Radeon | Feb 18 09:55 |
DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4L2lwQiAkA&feature=related | Feb 18 09:56 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- MST3K - Rowsdower .::. Size~: 121.98 KB | Feb 18 09:56 |
DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOddAWrRSpE&NR=1 | Feb 18 09:59 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- ehgggg .::. Size~: 114.52 KB | Feb 18 09:59 |
DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Numc3KPZcDY&feature=related | Feb 18 09:59 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- Know em'? He was delicious! .::. Size~: 121.45 KB | Feb 18 09:59 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Business Software Alliance ( #BSA ) is Not Good for #FreeSoftware http://boycottnovell.com/2010/02/18/business-software-alliance-myth/ | Feb 18 10:32 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Business Software Alliance (BSA) is Not Good for Free Software | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 92.18 KB | Feb 18 10:32 |
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Please Don’t Compare #Microsoft #Vaporware to Today’s #GNU #Linux http://ur1.ca/mn51 Old tricks, new names, new brands | Feb 18 10:38 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Please Dont Compare Microsoft Vapourware to Todays GNU/Linux | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 87.21 KB | Feb 18 10:38 |
cubezzz | 'wow, there's still BSD vs Linux hate | Feb 18 10:39 |
cubezzz | lame | Feb 18 10:39 |
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DaemonFC | cubezzz, AMD ported Direct2D to Linux | Feb 18 10:40 |
DaemonFC | it's in their new driver | Feb 18 10:40 |
DaemonFC | off by default though | Feb 18 10:40 |
cubezzz | why would I want that? | Feb 18 10:42 |
cubezzz | this guy is full of it, says he's been using paypal for 15 years... it was founded in 1998 | Feb 18 10:43 |
cubezzz | anyways, we have SDL | Feb 18 10:47 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft and the “Debt-Financed Balance Sheet” http://ur1.ca/mn8s Microsoft’s debt and Novell’s debt revisited2 | Feb 18 10:48 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsoft and the “Debt-Financed Balance Sheet” | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 88.66 KB | Feb 18 10:48 |
oiaohm | cubezzz: Its really a driver development thing. | Feb 18 10:49 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm, You mean it's used internally and not a competing API | Feb 18 10:49 |
DaemonFC | right? | Feb 18 10:49 |
oiaohm | By releasing Direct2d on Linux. Linux guys can build test cases and make gaulium3d version. Note Direct2d could be useful to wine. | Feb 18 10:50 |
oiaohm | Now question is will Nvidia release their Direct2d api on Linux as well. | Feb 18 10:51 |
cubezzz | I only use wine for the one windows program I wrote | Feb 18 10:51 |
cubezzz | and dosbox for the dos stuff | Feb 18 10:51 |
cubezzz | and the odd game | Feb 18 10:51 |
DaemonFC | yeah, Wine only has minimal DOS support | Feb 18 10:51 |
DaemonFC | much better to use dosbox | Feb 18 10:51 |
cubezzz | but really Wine is hardly ideal | Feb 18 10:52 |
cubezzz | I'd rather just port stuff | Feb 18 10:52 |
cubezzz | try to make a good job of it | Feb 18 10:52 |
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DaemonFC | Gallium3d implementing DirectX could be kind of cool | Feb 18 10:59 |
oiaohm | http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/02/intel-and-nokia-making-more-than-linux.ars Some people take wild guess. People forget intel makes x86 and arm chips. | Feb 18 10:59 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Intel and Nokia making a mobile chip for phones, netbooks? .::. Size~: 30.08 KB | Feb 18 10:59 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Steve Jobs is ‘Pulling a Gates’ http://ur1.ca/mney Steve Jobs to help glorify himself as departure may be imminent | Feb 18 11:03 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Steve Jobs is Pulling a Gates | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 89.78 KB | Feb 18 11:03 |
DaemonFC | http://toastytech.com/guis/star.html | Feb 18 11:08 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: The Xerox Star .::. Size~: 11.99 KB | Feb 18 11:08 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] New Blog Post: "The Clone(zilla) Wars" http://bit.ly/bBtBZy - more Mumbuntu fun! | Feb 18 11:12 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: The Clone(zilla) Wars | popey.com blog .::. Size~: 30.89 KB | Feb 18 11:12 |
DaemonFC | heh, a Debian developer said on the Phoronix forum that if AMD doesn't support X Server 1.7 by next month, then they may not have support for ATI cards in Debian Squeeze | Feb 18 11:19 |
DaemonFC | meaning the user has to install i manually :P | Feb 18 11:19 |
oiaohm | You really don't want to do that. | Feb 18 11:20 |
oiaohm | 1.7 changes a lot of low level things. | Feb 18 11:20 |
schestowitz | http://identi.ca/notice/22384250 "@schestowitz funny to see how people still use XP but complain about lack of innovation wrt Linux ..." | Feb 18 11:21 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Jan Wildeboer (jwildeboer) 's status on Thursday, 18-Feb-10 10:33:40 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 8.18 KB | Feb 18 11:21 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Centrify Brings Microsoft to *NIX, #RedHat Denounces the Patent Trolls... http://bit.ly/9UUZdL #acts #swpat | Feb 18 11:48 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Patents Roundup: Centrify Brings Microsoft Patents to *NIX, Red Hat Denounces the Patent Trolls, and Google Still Endorses Software Patents | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 94.69 KB | Feb 18 11:48 |
DaemonFC | http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE61H2F320100218?type=technologyNews | Feb 18 11:55 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Virus has breached 75,000 computers: study| Reuters .::. Size~: 49.07 KB | Feb 18 11:55 |
DaemonFC | apparently it's some kind of malware that can't be detected by antivirus at all | Feb 18 11:56 |
DaemonFC | http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/19/technology/19cyber.html | Feb 18 11:57 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Malicious Software Infects Corporate Computers - NYTimes.com .::. Size~: 68.57 KB | Feb 18 11:57 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, Naming a botnet is getting to be like naming the stars in the sky | Feb 18 11:59 |
DaemonFC | eventually there's going to be charity fundraising drives where they auction off botnet naming rights :) | Feb 18 11:59 |
schestowitz | :-D | Feb 18 12:09 |
schestowitz | It's a John Markoff article, so neither Microsoft nor Windows are mentioned, as usual. | Feb 18 12:11 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] UK calls in Israeli ambassador. http://is.gd/8E6jH #palestine #israel #occupation | Feb 18 12:13 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: UK calls in Israeli ambassador as Dubai killing row escalates |World news |The Guardian .::. Size~: 72.47 KB | Feb 18 12:13 |
oiaohm | There is already charity fund-raising drives to name botnets. Just happens to be for the developers own favorate charity himself. | Feb 18 12:13 |
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[satipera/@satipera] UK calls in Israeli ambassador. http://is.gd/8E6jH #palestine #israel #occupation | Feb 18 12:17 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: UK calls in Israeli ambassador as Dubai killing row escalates |World news |The Guardian .::. Size~: 72.52 KB | Feb 18 12:17 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm, is there ANY possible legit way for this guy to be selling Windows 7 for $5 per and MSDN accounts for $20? | Feb 18 12:19 |
DaemonFC | I'm sure there isn't | Feb 18 12:19 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: the US banksters are screwing us | Feb 18 12:23 |
schestowitz | http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-scheer/its-greek-to-goldman-sach_b_465134.html | Feb 18 12:23 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Robert Scheer: It's Greek to Goldman Sachs .::. Size~: 154.36 KB | Feb 18 12:23 |
schestowitz | "As a result of such shenanigans back in 2001, Greece was allowed to join the European Union while running up enormous debt that went undetected. Greece's neighbors will now be forced to bail it out, much as U.S. taxpayers have done for banks as a result of the scams Goldman and other financial houses pulled off in this country." | Feb 18 12:23 |
DaemonFC | lmao | Feb 18 12:23 |
schestowitz | They have now taken their corruption over here for us to bail out the crooks who enriched Goldman | Feb 18 12:23 |
schestowitz | This is getting ridiculous. | Feb 18 12:23 |
DaemonFC | it's funny is what it is | Feb 18 12:23 |
DaemonFC | have fun paying off their undeclared debt :) | Feb 18 12:24 |
DaemonFC | which was the whole purpose of rushing to try to get into the EU I'm certain | Feb 18 12:24 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, The EU doesn't audit countries that want to join? | Feb 18 12:25 |
schestowitz | http://elevenislouder.blogspot.com/2010/02/opensource-operating-systems.html | Feb 18 12:25 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Eleven is Louder: OpenSource Operating Systems .::. Size~: 74.59 KB | Feb 18 12:25 |
schestowitz | oops, I added sapitera to both identica and twitter | Feb 18 12:25 |
schestowitz | Mess. | Feb 18 12:25 |
schestowitz | Dupes | Feb 18 12:25 |
oiaohm | what version windows 7. Windows starter possiable. DaemonFC | Feb 18 12:25 |
oiaohm | Not like anyone wants Windows starter | Feb 18 12:25 |
DaemonFC | that would work something like rushing to get married in a country that fuzes your debt together | Feb 18 12:25 |
DaemonFC | make someone else responsible for it | Feb 18 12:26 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm, He says Ultimate | Feb 18 12:26 |
DaemonFC | why I don't believe him | Feb 18 12:26 |
oiaohm | Yep that is nicked. | Feb 18 12:26 |
oiaohm | Or Microsoft acdemic version that should not be sold. | Feb 18 12:27 |
schestowitz | They should give these out http://elevenislouder.blogspot.com/2010/02/opensource-operating-systems.html | Feb 18 12:27 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Eleven is Louder: OpenSource Operating Systems .::. Size~: 74.59 KB | Feb 18 12:27 |
oiaohm | Lot of unis hand out cheep MS accounts and Cheep copies of windows. But they are time limited versions. | Feb 18 12:27 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm, No they aren't | Feb 18 12:29 |
DaemonFC | they're MAK keys | Feb 18 12:29 |
DaemonFC | sort of like OEM, the main difference being that if you swap out enough hardware, there's no way to re-activate | Feb 18 12:30 |
oiaohm | MAK keys are once activaton not a second time. | Feb 18 12:30 |
DaemonFC | and after the first activation, it'll fail if you ever do it again, so you need to do the by phone option | Feb 18 12:30 |
oiaohm | Also must be done inside 90 days of issue. | Feb 18 12:30 |
DaemonFC | you can reactivate MAK | Feb 18 12:30 |
DaemonFC | just not online | Feb 18 12:30 |
oiaohm | Most because ms phone staff are incompetent. | Feb 18 12:31 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm, It's automated | Feb 18 12:31 |
oiaohm | Ok so the phone system in incompetent. | Feb 18 12:31 |
oiaohm | Because the Mak rules are activate inside 180 days of issue | Feb 18 12:32 |
DaemonFC | you use slmgr and some argument to get it to spit out an installation ID, you read that off to the phone activation system | Feb 18 12:32 |
oiaohm | After activation die. | Feb 18 12:32 |
oiaohm | Ie as being able to activation again. | Feb 18 12:32 |
DaemonFC | it reads you off 26 more letters and numbers, you type that in using slmgr | Feb 18 12:32 |
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Twitter loves open source http://twitter.com/about/opensource | Feb 18 12:32 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Twitter / OpenSource .::. Size~: 19.78 KB | Feb 18 12:32 |
oiaohm | But MS systems being screw balled. | Feb 18 12:32 |
DaemonFC | and Windows activates | Feb 18 12:32 |
oiaohm | Why should I be supprised. | Feb 18 12:32 |
DaemonFC | MAK isn't one activation, it's one activation per system | Feb 18 12:33 |
DaemonFC | like if I get MAK x 1,000, I can activate 1,000 unique systems | Feb 18 12:33 |
DaemonFC | and reactivate them by phone if it ever comes to that | Feb 18 12:33 |
DaemonFC | but they all use the same serial | Feb 18 12:33 |
DaemonFC | VLK is different, with VLK you can call Microsoft and ask them to invalidate that key if it leaks and give you another one | Feb 18 12:34 |
DaemonFC | then there's my favorite, KMS | Feb 18 12:35 |
oiaohm | VLK are not issued for vista or knew. Instead only KMS and MAK. | Feb 18 12:35 |
DaemonFC | with KMS, you have one server that can grant activation for like 180 days at a time | Feb 18 12:35 |
DaemonFC | so you can set up the KMS server in VMWare even | Feb 18 12:35 |
oiaohm | And there is a third type for Microsoft adademeic allanice. | Feb 18 12:36 |
oiaohm | Where the student logs into account gets keys that work for the time of there enrollment. | Feb 18 12:36 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, I've used Darwin before actually | Feb 18 12:36 |
oiaohm | After the enrollment time is up activating the key is invalidated. | Feb 18 12:36 |
DaemonFC | back when Apple was sponsoring OpenDarwin. It ran GNOME, so it was about like your typical Linux distribution in many ways | Feb 18 12:37 |
cubezzz | yeah it must really be fun dealing with all that | Feb 18 12:38 |
oiaohm | Of course the 90 day check in plan for Windows 7 will allow those academic alliance to die faster. | Feb 18 12:38 |
DaemonFC | cubezzz, The activation? Yeah, lots of fun. | Feb 18 12:38 |
DaemonFC | that's why Microsoft doesn't use the same type of keys for big organizations | Feb 18 12:39 |
DaemonFC | it gives them a bigger leash | Feb 18 12:39 |
oiaohm | Thinking KMS servers need windows something to run on. | Feb 18 12:39 |
DaemonFC | the entire idea of activation is that it's not supposed to make an issue of itself | Feb 18 12:39 |
oiaohm | Yep it does. | Feb 18 12:39 |
DaemonFC | the goal isn't to just needlessly piss off the user | Feb 18 12:40 |
oiaohm | The goal is to try to make people pay up. | Feb 18 12:40 |
DaemonFC | there's no point in angering every user that has to deal with it into go buying a Mac or formatting over Windows and shoving Linux on there | Feb 18 12:40 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm, exactly | Feb 18 12:41 |
DaemonFC | if they can keep 99% of the users unaware that it's even there, it's less of an open door for the competition to go "nyaaaaah!" "We don't bother our users with that crap!" | Feb 18 12:42 |
oiaohm | Yep oem installers do most of the activations. | Feb 18 12:43 |
DaemonFC | it's in the BIOS, it's not really possible for it to come undone unless you're using the disc and serial on another PC | Feb 18 12:43 |
oiaohm | I was including white boxs in that oem installers. | Feb 18 12:44 |
cubezzz | DaemonFC> there's no point in angering every user that has to deal with it into go buying a Mac or formatting over Windows and shoving Linux on there | Feb 18 13:18 |
cubezzz | way too late | Feb 18 13:18 |
cubezzz | even if Microsoft ever became "nice" it would still be closed source | Feb 18 13:20 |
cubezzz | it's just not interesting | Feb 18 13:20 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Creating a launchpad.net account for my Mum. Will be useful later. | Feb 18 13:43 | |
DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-S8RrFXiVI | Feb 18 13:48 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- Pizza Hut Salad Architecture .::. Size~: 112.81 KB | Feb 18 13:48 |
DaemonFC | I may get a take out salad for lunch | Feb 18 13:49 |
DaemonFC | the salad bar here is way nicer | Feb 18 13:49 |
DaemonFC | but yeah, I make it into kind of a pyramid so the box can still close | Feb 18 13:50 |
DaemonFC | yeah speaking of creativity, when it's a $6 salad, you figure out how to "architect" it :) | Feb 18 13:51 |
oiaohm | http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9158258/Most_Windows_7_PCs_max_out_memory | Feb 18 14:00 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Most Windows 7 PCs max out memory .::. Size~: 123.26 KB | Feb 18 14:00 |
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DaemonFC | Computer World ran this? heresy! | Feb 18 14:02 |
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[serk01/@serk01] Minority report interaction has arrived?http://bit.ly/dBiFPu | Feb 18 14:02 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Minority Report Interface Is Real, Hitting Mainstream Soon (Video) | Singularity Hub .::. Size~: 45.34 KB | Feb 18 14:02 |
DaemonFC | "The 86% mark for Windows 7 is more than twice the average number of Windows XP machines that run at the memory "saturation" point, said Barth." | Feb 18 14:02 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Dear Lazyweb. Anyone know the hostname for Three mobile broadband SMTP server? | Feb 18 14:03 | |
DaemonFC | What's even more insulting is that Windows 7 bargain basement deals have at least 2 gigs | Feb 18 14:03 |
DaemonFC | Most XP systems went out with 512 MB to 1 GB | Feb 18 14:03 |
schestowitz | Known Microsoft shill to 'try' Linux. Prepare for some trouble. http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/hiner/?p=3793 | Feb 18 14:04 |
DaemonFC | "Windows 7 machines have almost twice as much memory to work with," said Barth, "but the numbers show just how much larger and more complex Windows 7 is than XP." | Feb 18 14:04 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: TechRepublic Blogs: For IT professionals, by IT professionals .::. Size~: 76.82 KB | Feb 18 14:04 |
DaemonFC | more complex | Feb 18 14:04 |
MinceR | we call that "bloated" | Feb 18 14:05 |
DaemonFC | that's a very politically correct way to say gigantic and bloated | Feb 18 14:05 |
DaemonFC | :) | Feb 18 14:05 |
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schestowitz | MinceR: :-) | Feb 18 14:05 |
DaemonFC | Linux is the penguin, OS X is the big cat, Windows is the beached whale | Feb 18 14:05 |
DaemonFC | *grin* | Feb 18 14:05 |
MinceR | that's demeaning to cats | Feb 18 14:06 |
schestowitz | Apple is being such a pussy | Feb 18 14:06 |
DaemonFC | what is? that there is a family of big cats? | Feb 18 14:06 |
DaemonFC | :) | Feb 18 14:06 |
schestowitz | I hope Tiger Woods sues Apple | Feb 18 14:06 |
MinceR | that crApple calls its shit after cats | Feb 18 14:07 |
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DaemonFC | he'd have to take a moment from his sexual trysts and cocaine | Feb 18 14:07 |
DaemonFC | :P | Feb 18 14:07 |
schestowitz | MinceR: the Woods coalition of tigers should sue | Feb 18 14:08 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, Other than making mediocre software, I really don't see what the fuss is | Feb 18 14:08 |
DaemonFC | a lot of it is open source too | Feb 18 14:08 |
MinceR | the push for sw patents and DRM? | Feb 18 14:09 |
DaemonFC | Webkit was an oddity in that it's something that other people wanted | Feb 18 14:09 |
schestowitz | *LOL* http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8520467.stm m'Anti-terror buggy' unveiled by firm in India | Feb 18 14:09 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 89.52 KB | Feb 18 14:09 |
schestowitz | This is a tiger: http://static.desktopnexus.com/wallpapers/89850-bigthumbnail.jpg | Feb 18 14:09 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Feb 18 14:09 |
MinceR | the fact that whenever someone comes close to me with a hypePhone, i'm in the blast radius? | Feb 18 14:09 |
schestowitz | This is Apple's idea of a tiger: http://disney-clipart.com/winnie-the-pooh/Tigger/Disney-Tigger.jpg | Feb 18 14:10 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Feb 18 14:10 |
schestowitz | IOW, it's a freakkkin' toy | Feb 18 14:10 |
MinceR | or the fact that they rip off FLOSS while badmouthing it? | Feb 18 14:10 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, I saw a comic once that had tigger bouncing away from the tigger factory which was on fire, singing "And the most wonderful thing about tiggers is I'm the only one!!!" | Feb 18 14:11 |
DaemonFC | :) | Feb 18 14:11 |
schestowitz | They don't, MinceR | Feb 18 14:11 |
MinceR | or that they use slaves to make their shoddy hardware? | Feb 18 14:11 |
schestowitz | Apple doesn't quite badmouth it much | Feb 18 14:11 |
schestowitz | It just ignores and excludes it | Feb 18 14:11 |
MinceR | "not much" is too much for a company that lives off it | Feb 18 14:11 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, They use Foxconn, which every other PC maker does too | Feb 18 14:11 |
schestowitz | Like with IToooons[sic] | Feb 18 14:11 |
DaemonFC | and video game console maker | Feb 18 14:11 |
MinceR | that's not what wozniak said | Feb 18 14:11 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: does foxconn make hypePods? | Feb 18 14:12 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, Speaking of which, Walmart is out of game consoles and rationing the ones they get in | Feb 18 14:12 |
schestowitz | MinceR: I know, BUT>.. | Feb 18 14:12 |
schestowitz | On other occasions, Woz praised FOSS stuff | Feb 18 14:12 |
schestowitz | Like Droid... | Feb 18 14:12 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, Yeah, but Foxconn also makes the Zune, the Sansa, the iAudio, most generic mp3 players.... | Feb 18 14:12 |
schestowitz | Sort of fausopen, but still.. | Feb 18 14:12 |
MinceR | maybe he's schizophrenic | Feb 18 14:12 |
schestowitz | I don't think Woz is bad, overall | Feb 18 14:13 |
schestowitz | MinceR: Inquirer quote-mining | Feb 18 14:13 |
DaemonFC | so it's like PCs, game consoles, mp3 players, there's a higher than 90% chance you're buying from a company that uses third world slaves at foxconn | Feb 18 14:13 |
DaemonFC | and a 10% chance that you're buying from a company that uses third world slaves not at Foxconn | Feb 18 14:13 |
DaemonFC | :) | Feb 18 14:13 |
MinceR | vs. 100% with crApple? | Feb 18 14:13 |
schestowitz | MinceR: DaemonFC is right | Feb 18 14:14 |
schestowitz | They all use wage slaves | Feb 18 14:14 |
schestowitz | But.. | Feb 18 14:14 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, Capitalism seeks out the cheapest, most exploitable labor it can get, chases it wherever it goes, and works them to death | Feb 18 14:14 |
schestowitz | WHat I dislike is the illusion of Apple h/w being unique | Feb 18 14:14 |
DaemonFC | literally to death | Feb 18 14:14 |
schestowitz | That's the sticky point | Feb 18 14:14 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: someone from Chine whom I corresponded with this month sent me photos from CHina | Feb 18 14:15 |
schestowitz | It's amazingly polluted | Feb 18 14:15 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, The hardware isn't unique. The most obscure thing on them is that they use EFI, which you're starting to see a lot on Intel motherboards anyway | Feb 18 14:15 |
schestowitz | Daytime can seem like a cloudy day when it ain't | Feb 18 14:15 |
schestowitz | Depends where you live though | Feb 18 14:15 |
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schestowitz | Cancer is a huge killer there | Feb 18 14:15 |
schestowitz | Lung cancer... from pollution | Feb 18 14:15 |
MinceR | there's also the DMCA-based takedowns crApple does | Feb 18 14:16 |
schestowitz | Yet, the Yanks are being silly about it... http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/12/utah-climate-alarmists | Feb 18 14:16 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Utah delivers vote of no confidence for 'climate alarmists' |Environment |The Guardian .::. Size~: 170.91 KB | Feb 18 14:16 |
schestowitz | See what they did there? | Feb 18 14:16 |
MinceR | even if it's mostly against their own customers | Feb 18 14:16 |
DaemonFC | I'm not real psyched about EFI, it just means diffrent bugs, different kludge for the next 20 years, more ability to fuck you over with DRM, etc. | Feb 18 14:16 |
MinceR | oh, and how could i forget when they attacked html5 | Feb 18 14:16 |
DaemonFC | EFI is not a good thing. | Feb 18 14:16 |
schestowitz | They apply the "denier" label to daemonise the tellers of science, calling them "Alarmist" | Feb 18 14:16 |
schestowitz | I guess Darwinists too can be called "alarmists" | Feb 18 14:16 |
schestowitz | "Send them to prison!!" *LOL* | Feb 18 14:17 |
DaemonFC | Apple is starting to have higher hardware failure rates than the "generic PC" industry | Feb 18 14:17 |
schestowitz | In the US, IIRC, 63% are certain about an invisible man | Feb 18 14:17 |
MinceR | starting? | Feb 18 14:17 |
DaemonFC | that's the funniest part | Feb 18 14:17 |
MinceR | when did they not have them? | Feb 18 14:17 |
schestowitz | That's almost 2 in 3, based on a 2008/9 poll | Feb 18 14:17 |
MinceR | perhaps the apple ii-s didn't have those failure rates :> | Feb 18 14:17 |
schestowitz | So why worry about pollution:? | Feb 18 14:17 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, The PPC Macs were a lot more reliable, as a whole | Feb 18 14:17 |
schestowitz | I mean, Jesus comes down in less than 50 years | Feb 18 14:17 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] It appears that smtp-mbb.three.co.uk is the 3 smtp server. Memorable. (not) Thanks to those who replied.. | Feb 18 14:18 | |
DaemonFC | I have a dual G4 PowerMac | Feb 18 14:18 |
schestowitz | 22% believe he will come for certain within 50 years (lifetime) | Feb 18 14:18 |
schestowitz | Another 22% (IIRC) are "pretty certain" | Feb 18 14:18 |
DaemonFC | it's not a bad piece of hardware, the weakest thing on it is the GPU really | Feb 18 14:18 |
schestowitz | So no wonder Utah is being a bunch of selfish p* | Feb 18 14:18 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, The Mormon's tried to establish their own state out of the Utah Territory which would have been three times the land | Feb 18 14:19 |
DaemonFC | Congress denied that request | Feb 18 14:19 |
MinceR | then there was the FUD campaign against Palm | Feb 18 14:19 |
DaemonFC | :P | Feb 18 14:19 |
DaemonFC | The Indiana Territory used to be a lot bigger too actually, most of Ohio, all of Illinois, about half of Michigan | Feb 18 14:20 |
MinceR | and the usual 'patenting stuff they didn't invent and then suing everyone' routing | Feb 18 14:21 |
MinceR | s/g$/e/ | Feb 18 14:21 |
DaemonFC | also really swampy in most parts, dense forests, wild animals | Feb 18 14:21 |
DaemonFC | nothing a few guns and axes can't fix I guess | Feb 18 14:21 |
DaemonFC | :D | Feb 18 14:21 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, Doesn't matter who invented it | Feb 18 14:22 |
DaemonFC | first one to the patent office wins | Feb 18 14:22 |
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Copyright Undercover: #ACTA & the Web http://ur1.ca/mnus | Feb 18 14:22 | |
MinceR | it does if crApple goes around dickwaving and claiming they did | Feb 18 14:22 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Internet Evolution - The Big Report - Copyright Undercover: ACTA & the Web .::. Size~: 144.91 KB | Feb 18 14:22 |
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MinceR | also, if they rely on sw patents while living off the work of a community that's damaged by sw patents, that's hardly honest | Feb 18 14:23 |
DaemonFC | Apple latched onto MPEG-4 real good, almost impossible to use it without tripping on their patents | Feb 18 14:23 |
DaemonFC | they even specified the container format for .mp4 | Feb 18 14:23 |
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DaemonFC | You can use AAC on Linux, but you're best off to use proprietary software to do it | Feb 18 14:24 |
DaemonFC | FAAC is crap | Feb 18 14:24 |
DaemonFC | FAAD is just fine, but it's just a decoder :) | Feb 18 14:24 |
MinceR | yeah, acquiring MPEG-4 patents and then attacking Ogg is hardly excusable | Feb 18 14:26 |
DaemonFC | Nero hired all of the FAAC guys and it's pretty much dead now | Feb 18 14:26 |
DaemonFC | Nero has a Linux encoder "free for non-commercial use) | Feb 18 14:27 |
DaemonFC | think it's also integrated into Nero Linux | Feb 18 14:27 |
DaemonFC | yep, Nero AAC is in Nero Linux | Feb 18 14:29 |
schestowitz | http://couch.io/ http://news.cnet.com/8301-13846_3-10451248-62.html | Feb 18 14:29 |
DaemonFC | I'm not sure if Nero owns any patents on AAC or if they're just licensing from the pool | Feb 18 14:29 |
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phIRCe-BNc | Title: NoSQL in the real world | Software, Interrupted - CNET News .::. Size~: 92.49 KB | Feb 18 14:29 |
schestowitz | [14:19] <DaemonFC> schestowitz, The Mormon's tried to establish their own state out of the Utah Territory which would have been three times the land | Feb 18 14:29 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm_NY-N0hUc | Feb 18 14:29 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- Texas Sucks (Again) .::. Size~: 164.3 KB | Feb 18 14:29 |
schestowitz | On Texas wanting to become its own country | Feb 18 14:29 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, No, they don't | Feb 18 14:30 |
DaemonFC | it's illegal anyway | Feb 18 14:30 |
schestowitz | Maybe no anymore | Feb 18 14:30 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: Texas doesn't like law.. | Feb 18 14:30 |
DaemonFC | he's a politician playing to the idiots | Feb 18 14:30 |
schestowitz | Paul, Jones, other forms of anarchy... | Feb 18 14:30 |
DaemonFC | the law would REQUIRE the president to mobilize the US military to force Texas to stay :P | Feb 18 14:31 |
DaemonFC | I kind of doubt the Texas National Guard would fight off the US forces :) | Feb 18 14:31 |
DaemonFC | they'd surrender quickly | Feb 18 14:31 |
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] New awesome way of picking locks: http://ur1.ca/mnvc | Feb 18 14:32 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Foil impressioning: lock-picking technique that uses the lock to form a new key Boing Boing .::. Size~: 30.79 KB | Feb 18 14:32 |
DaemonFC | no, Texas would not be able to break away | Feb 18 14:32 |
DaemonFC | they don't have any way of doing it | Feb 18 14:33 |
DaemonFC | even if they declared that they were no longer a part of the United States, they would immediately be occupied and forced to stay | Feb 18 14:33 |
DaemonFC | doing so would be stupid because they are not in a position to do it | Feb 18 14:33 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, Rick Perry is also unpopular there and about to be forced out of office in the elections this year | Feb 18 14:34 |
DaemonFC | Rick Perry will not be the governor of Texas next year | Feb 18 14:34 |
DaemonFC | personally I think it's comical and I'd like to see his replacement actually try to make good on that | Feb 18 14:35 |
schestowitz | Need a favour...... | Feb 18 14:38 |
schestowitz | http://www.eclipse.org/org/elections/candidate.php?year=2010 | Feb 18 14:38 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: 2010 Board Candidate: .::. Size~: 6.91 KB | Feb 18 14:38 |
schestowitz | Do you know any of the names there? | Feb 18 14:38 |
schestowitz | Are any dangerous to FOSS? | Feb 18 14:38 |
schestowitz | http://www.keeneview.com/2010/02/it-takes-community.html "Thinking back, probably our most important decision affecting community health was made early in the year, when we decided to dump our AGPL license in favor of Apache." | Feb 18 14:40 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: It takes a communityif (typeof(window.attachCsiOnload) != 'undefined' && window.attachCsiOnload != null) { window.attachCsiOnload('ext_blogspot'); } | KeeneView Blog .::. Size~: 21.3 KB | Feb 18 14:40 |
schestowitz | "Although we had never gotten direct feedback that the community didn't like AGPL, we had more forum posts than we thought was healthy that asked pointed questions about our licensing. This let us know that people were confused, and if there was any doubt in our minds, the licensing debacle at Ext js convinced us that Keep-It-Simple-Stupid is the only way to go here." | Feb 18 14:41 |
schestowitz | "A UK-based Open Source company today announced a major upgrade of its award winning systems monitoring platform to meet the demands of its growing enterprise install base. Opsview Enterprise is already in use by global brands like Harvard University, Allianz and Electronic Arts." http://www.opsera.com/news/news_detail.dot?id=8319 | Feb 18 14:43 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Opsera - designs and builds enterprise open source products and solutions .::. Size~: 9.9 KB | Feb 18 14:43 |
schestowitz | Are these guys/code any good? | Feb 18 14:44 |
schestowitz | Rather obscure, still | Feb 18 14:44 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, I've never seen Opera so preoccupied with Windows that they didn't even compile Mac and UNIX builds | Feb 18 14:45 |
schestowitz | http://www.infoworld.com/d/virtualization/novell-working-kvm-hypervisor-406 | Feb 18 14:45 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Is Novell working on a KVM hypervisor? | Virtualization - InfoWorld .::. Size~: 69.4 KB | Feb 18 14:45 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] #ViBGYOR2010 @aashiks Writes About Free Software@vibgyorfilm Ubuntu+VLC+digicam+audacity+drupal http://is.gd/8EmYs | Feb 18 14:46 | |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: link/s? | Feb 18 14:46 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: A FOSS lover's look at ViBGYOR 2010 | ViBGYOR International Short & Documentary Festival 2010 .::. Size~: 10.12 KB | Feb 18 14:46 |
DaemonFC | http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/ | Feb 18 14:46 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Opera Desktop Team - Desktop Team .::. Size~: 31.07 KB | Feb 18 14:46 |
DaemonFC | there's been a few times they did this | Feb 18 14:46 |
DaemonFC | and they aren't making RPMs or DEBs even if they do make Linux builds | Feb 18 14:46 |
DaemonFC | they tar them | Feb 18 14:46 |
schestowitz | Yes, so...? | Feb 18 14:47 |
schestowitz | Many Opera employees use Linux as I understand it | Feb 18 14:47 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @anivar #ViBGYOR2010 @aashiks Writes About Free Software@vibgyorfilm Ubuntu+VLC+digicam+audacity+drupal http://is.gd/8EmYs | Feb 18 14:48 | |
schestowitz | And Opera goes into PPAs when done | Feb 18 14:48 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: A FOSS lover's look at ViBGYOR 2010 | ViBGYOR International Short & Documentary Festival 2010 .::. Size~: 10.12 KB | Feb 18 14:48 |
DaemonFC | meh, they just seem too busy with Windows for some reason | Feb 18 14:48 |
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schestowitz | DaemonFC: not news | Feb 18 14:53 |
schestowitz | It's their largest target audience | Feb 18 14:53 |
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schestowitz | apple's customers stick with the zooo thing or Firefox | Feb 18 14:53 |
DaemonFC | I have to wonder why KDE is sticking to KHTML even though it's less capable than Webkit | Feb 18 14:56 |
DaemonFC | I think it's spite | Feb 18 14:56 |
schestowitz | Yes | Feb 18 14:58 |
MinceR | if it's spite, it's quite understandable | Feb 18 14:59 |
MinceR | remember that crApple wasn't willing to work with them | Feb 18 14:59 |
DaemonFC | so KHTML still has pretty much all the limitations its had for years | Feb 18 15:00 |
DaemonFC | it's still got rendering bugs that were worked out of Webkit more than two years ago, incompleteness, slowness, etc. | Feb 18 15:01 |
DaemonFC | it's why most distributions are trying to de-emphasize it by shipping Firefox or some webkit browser | Feb 18 15:02 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu couldn't fit Firefox on the kubuntu CD, so they linked to a stub to grab it for you | Feb 18 15:02 |
MinceR | so that's what the "Mozilla Firefox Browser Installer" is? | Feb 18 15:04 |
MinceR | i was always wondering what the deal with that was | Feb 18 15:04 |
DaemonFC | was that sarcastic? :) | Feb 18 15:05 |
MinceR | nope | Feb 18 15:05 |
DaemonFC | yeah, it just grabs Firefox for you, all the parts and pieces | Feb 18 15:06 |
DaemonFC | they package it in so many pieces that if you just tell apt to get Firefox, it will bring it in without the GTK bindings and the "branding" | Feb 18 15:07 |
DaemonFC | so you get this naked ugly thing that calls itself "A Web Browser" | Feb 18 15:07 |
MinceR | nope, that's another package | Feb 18 15:07 |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: yes, china is a filthy mess. shocking. it's what happens when you have out-of-control industrialisation with NO regulation of pollution; the west caught themselves just in time and realised regulation was necessary. China doesn't care. | Feb 18 15:07 |
MinceR | abrowser or something | Feb 18 15:07 |
DaemonFC | no | Feb 18 15:07 |
MinceR | i installed the firefox package via apt so i know what it is :> | Feb 18 15:08 |
DaemonFC | abrowser is just Firefox without the branding package | Feb 18 15:08 |
MinceR | i know | Feb 18 15:08 |
MinceR | but it's in a separate package | Feb 18 15:08 |
DaemonFC | if you remove the branding package, Firefox calls itself that | Feb 18 15:08 |
DaemonFC | right | Feb 18 15:08 |
MinceR | the firefox package does have branding | Feb 18 15:08 |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: the melamine thing is an example; and that's still going on, even though it's no longer making headlines. they don't care about poisoning their own citizens and their own country. this alone was enough reason to boycott their olympic sham | Feb 18 15:08 |
DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy, They let Hitler host the olympics | Feb 18 15:09 |
DaemonFC | why not let China? :D | Feb 18 15:09 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: I explained why not. | Feb 18 15:09 |
MinceR | also, i don't know what you mean by "GTK bindings" | Feb 18 15:09 |
DaemonFC | no government worries about poisoning its citizens | Feb 18 15:10 |
MinceR | afaik it's always some sort of weird partly-GTK thing | Feb 18 15:10 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: wrong | Feb 18 15:10 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, Yeah, but Firefox can run without them | Feb 18 15:10 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you really need to get out more | Feb 18 15:10 |
MinceR | it renders GTK widgets but they work somewhat differently | Feb 18 15:10 |
MinceR | (probably due to XUL) | Feb 18 15:10 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: how does it work without them? | Feb 18 15:10 |
DaemonFC | it just, does, looks ugly | Feb 18 15:10 |
MinceR | what renders the widgets then? | Feb 18 15:10 |
DaemonFC | All I remember is that it looks ugly but it works without them | Feb 18 15:11 |
DaemonFC | must be some purely cosmetic thing to make it not look hideous on Linux | Feb 18 15:11 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@ebertchicago My reader Bill Mulligan tells me: "@Twitter was practically invented to inspire regrets." // bit like life, eh | Feb 18 15:16 | |
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FurnaceBoy | trmanco: bom dia! | Feb 18 15:21 |
trmanco | FurnaceBoy: ola :D | Feb 18 15:21 |
*sebsebseb (~3seb@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovell | Feb 18 15:26 | |
sebsebseb | Feb 18 15:27 | |
MinceR | Feb 18 15:30 | |
DaemonFC | I knew it! KGB agents! | Feb 18 15:31 |
DaemonFC | They're using invisible ink! | Feb 18 15:31 |
*DaemonFC hides | Feb 18 15:31 | |
sebsebseb | MinceR: | Feb 18 15:35 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: | Feb 18 15:35 |
Diablo-D3 | hey schestowitz | Feb 18 15:44 |
Diablo-D3 | does chris hall ring any bells? | Feb 18 15:44 |
Diablo-D3 | http://adterrasperaspera.com/blog/2009/12/22/using-xfce4-on-my-debian-using-powerbook-rejecting-gnomemono | Feb 18 15:44 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Using Xfce4 on my Debian-using Powerbook, rejecting Gnome+Mono » Ad Terras Per Aspera .::. Size~: 24.6 KB | Feb 18 15:44 |
Diablo-D3 | scroll down for comments | Feb 18 15:44 |
MinceR | sebsebseb: | Feb 18 15:47 |
schestowitz | Feb 18 15:50 | |
*MinceR | Feb 18 15:50 | |
schestowitz | Diablo-D3: Chris Hall rings no bell | Feb 18 15:50 |
schestowitz | But Diablo-D3 rings around Saturn | Feb 18 15:51 |
schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: to accuse China of pollution if like accusing your hard-working housemaid of smelling bad and making the house less pleasant | Feb 18 15:52 |
MinceR | http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/02/showing_children_gods_love_wit.php | Feb 18 15:53 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Showing children God’s love… with a rubber hose! : Pharyngula .::. Size~: 165.95 KB | Feb 18 15:53 |
schestowitz | Tell that to U-tah! | Feb 18 15:53 |
MinceR | afaik china really takes very little efforts (if any) to reduce their pollution | Feb 18 15:53 |
schestowitz | Heh. Diablo-D3 obstructs takeover of Linux by Ballmer | Feb 18 15:56 |
schestowitz | MinceR: what can they do? | Feb 18 15:56 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@mikemadden Rubio "This is the only place in the world where u can open a small business in a spare bedroom in your home" // complete B.S. | Feb 18 15:59 | |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: they could regulate. | Feb 18 15:59 |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: they are ignoring the issue | Feb 18 16:00 |
*gargoyle-grin (~randerson@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) has joined #boycottnovell | Feb 18 16:00 | |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: that is a failing strategy | Feb 18 16:00 |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: China is a portrait of the West with environmental movement and environmental regulation subtracted | Feb 18 16:01 |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: and the West is the long-term enabler of that | Feb 18 16:01 |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: most specifically, they are exporting at a fraction of the true cost of production | Feb 18 16:02 |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: the most basic definition of unsustainability | Feb 18 16:02 |
FurnaceBoy | using non-renewable materials, to produce a product too cheaply and with toxic sideeffects, to be sold too cheaply by unsustainable supply chains, to countries that should be building it themselves. Schumacher is spinning in his grave. | Feb 18 16:04 |
MinceR | meanwhile they kill their own people and destroying their own land | Feb 18 16:05 |
MinceR | s/kill/are killing/ | Feb 18 16:05 |
FurnaceBoy | yes. because they're not dealing with that part of the equation. | Feb 18 16:05 |
DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy, Short of repealing the minimum wage and agreeing to work unpaid overtime and 18 hour days like the Chinese do, those jobs are never coming back | Feb 18 16:05 |
DaemonFC | :) | Feb 18 16:05 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: that's your problem | Feb 18 16:06 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: stop buying CHinese, the jobs will return | Feb 18 16:06 |
DaemonFC | yeah, not going to happen | Feb 18 16:06 |
FurnaceBoy | good for you | Feb 18 16:06 |
MinceR | when the chinese die out, they will | Feb 18 16:06 |
FurnaceBoy | MinceR: what happens in China affects all of us | Feb 18 16:06 |
MinceR | or when they get a clue | Feb 18 16:06 |
FurnaceBoy | MinceR: one biosphere :| | Feb 18 16:06 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, all 47 billion of them? | Feb 18 16:06 |
FurnaceBoy | MinceR: well, to echo DaemonFC, I can't see that happening | Feb 18 16:06 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: more likely only the cheap workforce | Feb 18 16:07 |
MinceR | that's being considered disposable | Feb 18 16:07 |
DaemonFC | It's not like Canada is going to thrive on oil and timber forever | Feb 18 16:07 |
DaemonFC | a lot of them sure act like it'll never end | Feb 18 16:08 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: of course | Feb 18 16:08 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: this is simple common sense | Feb 18 16:08 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: no economy based on non-renewables is sustainable | Feb 18 16:09 |
DaemonFC | you'll sure do enough destruction to tap into those oil sands going after it though | Feb 18 16:09 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: and the oil sands is an environmental catastrophe almost worthy of China | Feb 18 16:09 |
MinceR | timber is renewable | Feb 18 16:09 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: I am well aware | Feb 18 16:09 |
DaemonFC | both in terms of lives lost and to the environment | Feb 18 16:09 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: yes, of course the oil sands is a disaster | Feb 18 16:10 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: but it's 0.01% what China is doing, enabled by the West | Feb 18 16:10 |
DaemonFC | yeah, the US isn't all of that problem though, not by a long shot | Feb 18 16:10 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: nobody said they are | Feb 18 16:11 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: just most of it | Feb 18 16:11 |
MinceR | and yes, what china is doing can kill the rest of us, if only slower | Feb 18 16:11 |
schestowitz | But you like your wince phone | Feb 18 16:11 |
DaemonFC | http://internationaltrade.suite101.com/article.cfm/chinas_top_trading_partners | Feb 18 16:11 |
FurnaceBoy | MinceR: check out Burtynsky's film "Manufactured Landscapes" for a tiny glimpse | Feb 18 16:11 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: China's Top Trading Partners: Chinese Exports & Imports Soar .::. Size~: 41.82 KB | Feb 18 16:11 |
DaemonFC | hmmm, old numbers | Feb 18 16:12 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: stop being defensive. the US is not the only buyer, just one of the biggest. | Feb 18 16:12 |
DaemonFC | http://english.mofcom.gov.cn/aarticle/statistic/ie/200807/20080705642998.html | Feb 18 16:12 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Ministry of Commerce of the People's Republic of China .::. Size~: 51.2 KB | Feb 18 16:12 |
DaemonFC | the EU is buying more Chinese crap than us, lol | Feb 18 16:12 |
schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67j7JlEZzpQ | Feb 18 16:12 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: Chinese products are a problem everywhere, but, here's a fact you probably don't know: Much less in countries like Brazil, who have a robust domestic manufacturing industry and inexpensive labour | Feb 18 16:12 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- Manufactured Landscapes .::. Size~: 112.51 KB | Feb 18 16:12 |
DaemonFC | so there! :) | Feb 18 16:12 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: irrelevant | Feb 18 16:12 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: fix your problems | Feb 18 16:13 |
DaemonFC | mmhm, funding China to ramp up their military expansion | Feb 18 16:14 |
FurnaceBoy | yeah, brilliant, eh | Feb 18 16:14 |
FurnaceBoy | for short term profit by leeches like Wal-mart | Feb 18 16:14 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: you didn't sign the Kyoto protocol | Feb 18 16:14 |
MinceR | so shut up | Feb 18 16:14 |
DaemonFC | you're going to beg to have us back when they're through with you | Feb 18 16:14 |
MinceR | and get a clue | Feb 18 16:14 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, 1. It was signed. :) | Feb 18 16:14 |
DaemonFC | 2. Fuck it. | Feb 18 16:14 |
FurnaceBoy | MinceR: the US skips most UN conventions | Feb 18 16:14 |
DaemonFC | rightly so | Feb 18 16:14 |
FurnaceBoy | oh boy. | Feb 18 16:14 |
DaemonFC | the UN is not something we should be a part of anyway | Feb 18 16:15 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: the planet isn't something you should be a part of, then. | Feb 18 16:15 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: no, you fuck it. | Feb 18 16:15 |
MinceR | +1 | Feb 18 16:15 |
DaemonFC | How's about that Oil For Food program? | Feb 18 16:15 |
DaemonFC | Coffee at noon | Feb 18 16:15 |
DaemonFC | :) | Feb 18 16:15 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: this isn't subject to debate. the USA is not exceptional. | Feb 18 16:15 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: learn to get along | Feb 18 16:16 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: learn to follow civilised conventions | Feb 18 16:16 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: stop killing | Feb 18 16:16 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: stop torturing | Feb 18 16:16 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: etc | Feb 18 16:16 |
DaemonFC | when other countries do worse, it gets ignored | Feb 18 16:17 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: fix *your own* problems | Feb 18 16:17 |
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] RD: @rahulsundaram: Set Your Desktop Free, With Nouveau’s 3D http://is.gd/8EeCC | Feb 18 16:17 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Set Your Desktop Free, With Nouveaus 3D | Linux Magazine .::. Size~: 45.16 KB | Feb 18 16:17 |
DaemonFC | Canada participated in the "torture" | Feb 18 16:17 |
DaemonFC | as did the Uk | Feb 18 16:17 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: I am well aware | Feb 18 16:17 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: I am well aware of that too | Feb 18 16:17 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: quit using "but other people can be bad too!" as a shield to avoid facing your own problems | Feb 18 16:19 |
DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy, I'll bet you anything that your government would fork you over if we asked them to | Feb 18 16:19 |
DaemonFC | without any proof that you did anything | Feb 18 16:19 |
FurnaceBoy | half the problem with the USA is they are psychologically unable to face reality | Feb 18 16:19 |
DaemonFC | why is that? | Feb 18 16:19 |
MinceR | must be the m$ corporate culture | Feb 18 16:19 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: I am well aware of that | Feb 18 16:20 |
MinceR | "equally evil" and all that bullshit | Feb 18 16:20 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you don't have a problem with that , because you believe the USA is exceptional and deserves the role of global sheriff | Feb 18 16:20 |
DaemonFC | you can't be a part of something and only blame the other participants | Feb 18 16:20 |
DaemonFC | fix YOUR problems | Feb 18 16:20 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: however, some of us do not find extraordinary rendition acceptable | Feb 18 16:20 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: eh? | Feb 18 16:20 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: quit using "but other people can be bad too!" as a shield to avoid facing your own problems | Feb 18 16:21 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: Americans put most energy of all into denial | Feb 18 16:21 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: back at you | Feb 18 16:21 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: "please don't make us change! we don't want to change! particularly our beliefs about ourselves. let us cling to them" | Feb 18 16:21 |
DaemonFC | it doesn't take any energy to not care | Feb 18 16:21 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: be apathetic then. that's what I see you doing. Avoidance. | Feb 18 16:22 |
schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: I'll watch this programme tonight.. ta | Feb 18 16:22 |
FurnaceBoy | Avoidance and denial. | Feb 18 16:22 |
MinceR | denial does take energy | Feb 18 16:22 |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: np | Feb 18 16:22 |
MinceR | your defense of jesusland right now takes energy, too :> | Feb 18 16:22 |
DaemonFC | not defending anything | Feb 18 16:22 |
FurnaceBoy | yes, you are defensive; and your strategy is to avoid looking at the reality of US behaviour | Feb 18 16:23 |
MinceR | denial of denial, now? | Feb 18 16:23 |
DaemonFC | he wants to say our system is broken and his system is spotless and bulletproof | Feb 18 16:23 |
FurnaceBoy | you even put " around torture | Feb 18 16:23 |
FurnaceBoy | because you don't want to admit the USA tortures | Feb 18 16:23 |
FurnaceBoy | and kidnaps | Feb 18 16:23 |
DaemonFC | can't criticize Canada for turning over their own citizens to be tortured | Feb 18 16:23 |
DaemonFC | that's not ethically questionable at all | Feb 18 16:23 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you'd prefer to talk about Canada than your own country | Feb 18 16:23 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you don't want to face the truth | Feb 18 16:23 |
schestowitz | He does the same to me.. with the UK | Feb 18 16:23 |
schestowitz | Aversion | Feb 18 16:24 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: Canada turned Arar over TO THE USA. get it? | Feb 18 16:24 |
DaemonFC | so? | Feb 18 16:24 |
DaemonFC | Canada did do it | Feb 18 16:24 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: did what? | Feb 18 16:24 |
FurnaceBoy | I know what they did. I've studied many of these cases. | Feb 18 16:24 |
DaemonFC | made the "torture" possible by assisting | Feb 18 16:24 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you'd rather talk about Canada than deal with the fact that the USA tortures | Feb 18 16:24 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: look at your pathetic " around torture | Feb 18 16:24 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you ignoramus | Feb 18 16:25 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you read nothing, you study nothing | Feb 18 16:25 |
DaemonFC | I don't care. I'm not the one with the problem about that. | Feb 18 16:25 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you are in total denial | Feb 18 16:25 |
DaemonFC | I jsut find it amusing that you put 100% of the blame where only half of it goes | Feb 18 16:25 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: liar | Feb 18 16:25 |
*FurnaceBoy (~FurnaceBo@bas1-toronto10-1279559654.dsl.bell.ca) has left #boycottnovell ("better things to do than debate American idiots in denial") | Feb 18 16:25 | |
DaemonFC | if there is ever a war crimes court that gets put together to investigate this, I wonder how many Canadian politicians it'll charge over handing people over while fully aware what would happen to them | Feb 18 16:26 |
DaemonFC | they were "complicit" | Feb 18 16:27 |
DaemonFC | word of the day | Feb 18 16:27 |
DaemonFC | all too eager to help | Feb 18 16:27 |
MinceR | i wonder if they'll find those politicians guilty while no usians guilty | Feb 18 16:27 |
MinceR | like that will happen | Feb 18 16:27 |
DaemonFC | there won't be one, MinceR, because all the countries responsible would be the ones that are in charge of putting these courts together | Feb 18 16:28 |
DaemonFC | and it's not just the US | Feb 18 16:28 |
DaemonFC | the UK would avoid bringing the issue up | Feb 18 16:28 |
DaemonFC | Australia would avoid it | Feb 18 16:28 |
DaemonFC | Canada would avoid it | Feb 18 16:28 |
DaemonFC | lots more | Feb 18 16:28 |
DaemonFC | so there goes your court | Feb 18 16:28 |
MinceR | _my_ court? | Feb 18 16:29 |
DaemonFC | Hungary should put together a court to try politicians from at least half a dozen major countries | Feb 18 16:29 |
DaemonFC | you know, universal jurisdiction and all that | Feb 18 16:29 |
MinceR | our state is in the pocket of your megacorps | Feb 18 16:30 |
MinceR | they'll never do anything | Feb 18 16:30 |
DaemonFC | like what Spain is trying to do and can't get done | Feb 18 16:30 |
MinceR | but i see your point, you're trying to say "might makes right" | Feb 18 16:31 |
DaemonFC | no | Feb 18 16:31 |
DaemonFC | might means "Don't piss off that guy over there or he'll break every bone in your body even if he is wrong, and all his friends will join in" | Feb 18 16:32 |
DaemonFC | something like that | Feb 18 16:32 |
DaemonFC | at some point, it ceases to be important who is right or wrong | Feb 18 16:32 |
MinceR | that's a convenient thing to believe for the guy who's wrong | Feb 18 16:33 |
MinceR | also, you seem to think that every country is a unified entity, which it isn't | Feb 18 16:33 |
DaemonFC | all you're negotiating for is to get out of the bar in one piece | Feb 18 16:33 |
DaemonFC | not end up as a quivering pile of goo | Feb 18 16:33 |
MinceR | and that of course makes everything acceptable | Feb 18 16:33 |
DaemonFC | They can all agree to mindlessly hate the US | Feb 18 16:34 |
DaemonFC | and everyone in it | Feb 18 16:34 |
DaemonFC | maybe not about anything else though | Feb 18 16:34 |
MinceR | it doesn't matter how much an asshole your people are, as long as nobody dares call them on it | Feb 18 16:34 |
MinceR | who cares if they turn the world they live in into hell? | Feb 18 16:34 |
MinceR | even if also for themselves because they couldn't be bothered to plan beyond 5 years? | Feb 18 16:34 |
DaemonFC | projected anger | Feb 18 16:34 |
MinceR | funny to see you say that | Feb 18 16:34 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Here is an excellent video about where extraction happens (Manufactured Landscapes) < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67j7JlEZzpQ > | Feb 18 16:35 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- Manufactured Landscapes .::. Size~: 112.32 KB | Feb 18 16:35 |
MinceR | the main (or should i say only) xenophobe of the channel | Feb 18 16:35 |
MinceR | going on at length every day about just how everyone who isn't usian sucks | Feb 18 16:36 |
DaemonFC | not really | Feb 18 16:36 |
DaemonFC | I don't see in influx of Hungarians that refuse to work and want to strip mine the welfare system | Feb 18 16:36 |
DaemonFC | therefore I don't say "Oh those god damned Hungarians, not another one! Can't go anywhere or they'll tell me I have to learn Hungarian!" | Feb 18 16:37 |
DaemonFC | :D | Feb 18 16:37 |
DaemonFC | no, Hungarians are not this particular problem | Feb 18 16:37 |
DaemonFC | Mexicans are | Feb 18 16:37 |
MinceR | just everyone who isn't usian and you have a vague idea of where they live | Feb 18 16:38 |
DaemonFC | if I was just complaining about Hungarians out of the blue, non-stop, where Hungarians never did anything to ruin where I live... | Feb 18 16:38 |
DaemonFC | that would be projected anger | Feb 18 16:38 |
DaemonFC | complaining about the very real problem presented by illegal Mexicans is not projected anger | Feb 18 16:38 |
DaemonFC | I watched, let me say that again.... I WATCHED a judge let a Mexican go jsut cause he was a Mexican | Feb 18 16:39 |
DaemonFC | just walked right out | Feb 18 16:39 |
MinceR | oh, so if _you_ decide that a problem is real then it's not projected anger | Feb 18 16:39 |
DaemonFC | gave him a slap on the wrist, some counseling that he'll never show up for | Feb 18 16:39 |
MinceR | and if _you_ decide that a problem isn't real then it's projected anger | Feb 18 16:40 |
DaemonFC | not even any god damned court costs | Feb 18 16:40 |
MinceR | you'd better put your name on that term so that everyone knows that it's defined in terms of you | Feb 18 16:40 |
DaemonFC | I'd have to be fucking that judge to get a deal like that | Feb 18 16:40 |
MinceR | like so: DaemonFC(r) Projected Anger(tm) | Feb 18 16:40 |
DaemonFC | so I know it's jsut cause he was Medican | Feb 18 16:40 |
DaemonFC | *Mexican | Feb 18 16:40 |
DaemonFC | the legal system is just one giant assembly line, and whenever they get someone in there that the law has deemed "special", they let them go | Feb 18 16:41 |
DaemonFC | he didn't savagely murder and skull fuck someone, so he wasn't properly punished | Feb 18 16:42 |
DaemonFC | not news I guess | Feb 18 16:42 |
MinceR | not at all | Feb 18 16:42 |
MinceR | m$ got that treatment too | Feb 18 16:42 |
MinceR | and not just in jesusland | Feb 18 16:42 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, They made me pay court costs, they made me pay $400 to go into a counseling program, they made me pay another $20 a session to go to the "group therapy", the counselors are such aging hippie liberal douchebags that I was seriously thinking about asking to go to jail after a few of those sessions | Feb 18 16:44 |
DaemonFC | and they made me drive 30 miles to go to each one (bonus) | Feb 18 16:44 |
DaemonFC | and I had done less than the Mexican they let walk free that was in front of me the entire time | Feb 18 16:44 |
DaemonFC | you better damned well believe I was mad | Feb 18 16:45 |
schestowitz | [16:33] <MinceR> that's a convenient thing to believe for the guy who's wrong | Feb 18 16:45 |
schestowitz | Just because you fight evil doesn't make you good | Feb 18 16:45 |
schestowitz | You can both be "evil" | Feb 18 16:45 |
MinceR | i know | Feb 18 16:45 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, The funny thing is that "counseling" program is free if I want to go back | Feb 18 16:45 |
*DaemonFC pukes | Feb 18 16:45 | |
DaemonFC | if I ever need to become bulimic, I'll take them up on that and bring my own trash can | Feb 18 16:46 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, It wasn't all for nothing though, I've been single for nearly two years | Feb 18 16:47 |
DaemonFC | I've decided that I don't need anyone bringing more trouble INTO my life | Feb 18 16:47 |
DaemonFC | that's what I learned | Feb 18 16:47 |
DaemonFC | It's almost comical sometimes, you know, people. Text messaging me and saying "Hey come to the bar and get drunk!!!" or something | Feb 18 16:48 |
DaemonFC | I texted back "Are you posting bail tomorrow morning" cause of course the cops are sitting right outside until people (drunk) start trying to drive away | Feb 18 16:49 |
DaemonFC | so some of them get arrested every week, and a lot of them stagger across town drunk | Feb 18 16:50 |
DaemonFC | that's a good example of failing to learn a lesson, and they're not ME so there aren't any consequences for what they do | Feb 18 16:50 |
DaemonFC | so they do it every week | Feb 18 16:50 |
Ender2070 | who is this arguss guy? | Feb 18 16:50 |
DaemonFC | That may be why my perception of the world is so skewed, because in my sphere of observance, there are no consequences for any actions if you're not me, and if you are me, the cell doors slam shut faster than you can say "first beer" | Feb 18 16:53 |
MinceR | that sounds a lot like my perceptions | Feb 18 16:53 |
Ender2070 | you know what would fix the US economy? | Feb 18 16:54 |
DaemonFC | Just once I'd like to get away with something, anything. So you'll forgive me, MinceR, if I don't shed a tear for a guy that was trying to blow up buildings. | Feb 18 16:54 |
Ender2070 | right away, remove ms's tax breaks | Feb 18 16:54 |
MinceR | Ender2070: that would go a long way | Feb 18 16:54 |
Ender2070 | they pay less than 1% tax on their earnings | Feb 18 16:54 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070, They'd start running anti-Obama commercials showing how he's "exploited working families to death" with the tax code, and that he's actually the second Hitler (worth repeating) | Feb 18 16:55 |
Ender2070 | yeah | Feb 18 16:55 |
Ender2070 | then they might say he got his birth certificate made for him | Feb 18 16:55 |
DaemonFC | the big corporations have a war chest to "assassinate" the character of any politician that inconveniences them | Feb 18 16:56 |
DaemonFC | makes them unelectable the next time | Feb 18 16:56 |
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Proof at least some Christians are God hating ignorant fucks http://ur1.ca/modf #douchebag | Feb 18 16:57 | |
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Adobe is pretty fucked when #Flash is the punchline for a joke http://ur1.ca/modq | Feb 18 16:57 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Showing children God’s love… with a rubber hose! : Pharyngula .::. Size~: 180.04 KB | Feb 18 16:57 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: ActiveDen .::. Size~: 316.79 KB | Feb 18 16:57 |
DaemonFC | the only thing the corporations hate about our election system is that it costs so much to distract voters and make them think they have choices | Feb 18 16:57 |
Ender2070 | lol bill hicks made a joke that all the industrialists have a meeting immediately with every new president. when he arrives they show him a video of the JFK assassination from an angle nobody has seen before. | Feb 18 16:57 |
DaemonFC | the Grassy Noll? | Feb 18 16:58 |
DaemonFC | :D | Feb 18 16:58 |
Ender2070 | lol yeah | Feb 18 16:58 |
MinceR | the Grassy Gnoll | Feb 18 16:59 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070, MinceR I was disturbed at Walmart earlier | Feb 18 17:02 |
DaemonFC | over by the scented candles, where those relaxation and workout CDs are | Feb 18 17:02 |
DaemonFC | some jackass had sampled "Harder, Better, Faster" by Daft Punk and was rapping to it | Feb 18 17:03 |
MinceR | what was the disturbing part? | Feb 18 17:03 |
DaemonFC | that was the most horrible thing I've ever heard | Feb 18 17:03 |
DaemonFC | so horrible that I had to stand there and listen to it | Feb 18 17:04 |
Ender2070 | why didn't you walk away | Feb 18 17:04 |
DaemonFC | I....couldn't | Feb 18 17:04 |
Ender2070 | thats your own fault then | Feb 18 17:06 |
DaemonFC | I ended up unplugging it so I could walk away | Feb 18 17:08 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Kris Sowersby=@klimtypefoundry if u want to know more: interview http://bit.ly/aizWon #typography | Feb 18 17:11 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Type Faces, an interview with type designer Kris Sowersby | i love typography, the typography and fonts blog .::. Size~: 107.37 KB | Feb 18 17:11 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Potjandorie, Julian heeft me toch weer zo gek gekregen om Windows XP tijdelijk op mijn oude Dell Optiplex GX240 te installeren... | Feb 18 17:31 | |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] ... een actie van onconditionele liefde :-/ | Feb 18 17:31 | |
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Taibbi: "Goldman Raped The Taxpayer, And Raped Their Clients" http://ur1.ca/mohl | Feb 18 17:32 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Taibbi: "Goldman Raped The Taxpayer, And Raped Their Clients" | zero hedge .::. Size~: 174.51 KB | Feb 18 17:32 |
DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG8XqBdyMv8 | Feb 18 17:32 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- Babylon 5 - 4.08 'The Illusion of Truth': Ivanova + Sheridan .::. Size~: 114.18 KB | Feb 18 17:32 |
DaemonFC | B-) | Feb 18 17:32 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] New Blog Post: "Geekbox" http://bit.ly/dlSgCN :) @fabsh | Feb 18 17:35 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Geekbox | popey.com blog .::. Size~: 21.65 KB | Feb 18 17:35 |
DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR6wHU8wWfk&NR=1 | Feb 18 17:35 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- Babylon 5 - 3.05 'Voices of Authority': Ivanova and Sheridan .::. Size~: 112.05 KB | Feb 18 17:35 |
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DaemonFC | "I've always thought that a good leader should have a strong chin, this guy has no chin, and his vice president has several. This it me is not a good combination." -Ivanova :) | Feb 18 17:40 |
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c0wb0yl3g3nd | is there anything anyone would want to see created in the network security world? | Feb 18 17:47 |
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*DaemonFC secretely replaced Ender2070's operating system with Windows Vista. Let's see if he noticed. | Feb 18 17:56 | |
DaemonFC | B-) | Feb 18 17:56 |
MinceR | does it call itself "mojave"? | Feb 18 17:57 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, Yeah, and I put Mojave Defender on there too so he never gets pwned by spyware again :D | Feb 18 17:58 |
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MinceR | :> | Feb 18 17:58 |
MinceR | like that? | Feb 18 17:58 |
DaemonFC | uhhhm, yeah, he probably just plugged in a USB wifi antenna | Feb 18 17:59 |
DaemonFC | don't worry, he'll be back in a few minutes | Feb 18 17:59 |
MinceR | actually his other connection arrived before that one dropped | Feb 18 17:59 |
MinceR | i just didn't realize immediately | Feb 18 17:59 |
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DaemonFC | shouldn't people be asking themselves why getting pwned with spyware happens just as much on Vista/7 as XP even with Windows Defender? | Feb 18 18:00 |
DaemonFC | :) | Feb 18 18:00 |
DaemonFC | I mean, you'd expect it to at least reduce the occurrences of pwnage | Feb 18 18:01 |
DaemonFC | I don't know what it does really besides stand there and swallow your system resources | Feb 18 18:02 |
MinceR | they just tell themselves it happens less | Feb 18 18:03 |
MinceR | or they believe the advertisement | Feb 18 18:03 |
DaemonFC | the only thing I've ever seen it catch was the EICAR test virus | Feb 18 18:04 |
DaemonFC | http://itsyourpc.org/duane/files/spyware.jpg | Feb 18 18:05 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Feb 18 18:05 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Ancient mysteries: why #GNOME sometimes starts with ugly (#windows-type) font rasterisation settings;even tho Appearance specifies otherwise | Feb 18 18:07 | |
DaemonFC | http://img.bleepingcomputer.com/swr-guides/s/spyware-protect-2009/spyware-alert.jpg | Feb 18 18:07 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Feb 18 18:07 |
DaemonFC | fake antispyware | Feb 18 18:07 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @saintpaul007 Bank of America Forecloses on Home with No Mortgage http://bit.ly/bGBpjQ // Hey America, Angry Yet? #usa | Feb 18 18:10 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Bank of America Forecloses on Home with No Mortgage | Disinformation .::. Size~: 23.97 KB | Feb 18 18:10 |
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FurnaceBoy | rnb: http://twitter.com/mparent77772/status/9293992701 | Feb 18 18:12 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Twitter / Marc Parent: Pentagon Bracing for a Sna ... .::. Size~: 9.93 KB | Feb 18 18:12 |
FurnaceBoy | rnb: also, ping! want to talk to you about an opportunity ~ SP | Feb 18 18:12 |
DaemonFC | Yeah, it's frightening to have a bank account even | Feb 18 18:14 |
DaemonFC | the government can levy it and you aren't notified | Feb 18 18:15 |
DaemonFC | the bank can fuck up and drain the account | Feb 18 18:15 |
DaemonFC | the account I was paying my rent into had all the money stolen by a woman that used to work in the landlords office | Feb 18 18:16 |
DaemonFC | she put her name on the account and he signed off on it real quick thinking that it was just some other paperwork she handed him | Feb 18 18:16 |
DaemonFC | I had kept all my receipts though, so he ended up eating like a months worth of rent from all three tenants | Feb 18 18:17 |
FurnaceBoy | This video contains content from bbc, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds. | Feb 18 18:19 |
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DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy, TOR or FoxyProxy might work | Feb 18 18:39 |
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_goblin | hi all! | Feb 18 18:42 |
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sebsebseb | well I was k-lined for a few seconds or so | Feb 18 18:47 |
sebsebseb | since some sort of Freenode error | Feb 18 18:47 |
sebsebseb | then an issue trying to get back on with this name as well | Feb 18 18:47 |
sebsebseb | and all, because I had joined a channel and it thought I was sending spam, when I wasn't | Feb 18 18:48 |
DaemonFC | Freenode is having some gas lately | Feb 18 18:49 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: I joined the Spannish Ubuntu channel, to find out how many people were in there and then bang | Feb 18 18:49 |
DaemonFC | the local Ubuntu channels tend to be a joke, sebsebseb | Feb 18 18:50 |
MinceR | so seems to be the global one | Feb 18 18:50 |
DaemonFC | there's plenty of people in the US room, but never more than 5-6 in the Indiana one | Feb 18 18:50 |
DaemonFC | considering that Indiana has more people living here than some small countries, I would expect more | Feb 18 18:51 |
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FurnaceBoy | #ubuntu on freenode was the largest channel, when i checked ~ a year ago | Feb 18 18:52 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: I don't like the UK one much | Feb 18 18:52 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: maybe #ubuntu-in-those-small-countries doesn't manage much either | Feb 18 18:52 |
DaemonFC | #ubuntu-us-in | Feb 18 18:52 |
DaemonFC | 8 people | Feb 18 18:52 |
DaemonFC | heh | Feb 18 18:52 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: and I am half Swedish | Feb 18 18:53 |
*trmanco has quit (Quit: Ooops!!) | Feb 18 18:53 | |
sebsebseb | ,but my typing sucks | Feb 18 18:53 |
DaemonFC | 2 are the same people, 1 is a bot | Feb 18 18:53 |
sebsebseb | speaking a bit of English doesn't go well as a result, in the Swedish channel | Feb 18 18:53 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb, So can you translate the Swedish Chef song into Spanish? | Feb 18 18:53 |
DaemonFC | lol | Feb 18 18:53 |
sebsebseb | plus the Ubuntu Swedish channel is apparantly meant to only be for people who actsualley live in Sweden | Feb 18 18:53 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: I don't know Spannish | Feb 18 18:53 |
DaemonFC | ahhh | Feb 18 18:54 |
sebsebseb | just #ubuntu is getting loads of people who speak Spannish | Feb 18 18:54 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb, Not surprising | Feb 18 18:54 |
sebsebseb | and I thought I would join the channel to see how many people were in it, and then bang | Feb 18 18:54 |
Ender2070_ | http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=52080 | Feb 18 18:54 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: CNSNews.com - Top Obama Adviser Urged a ‘World of Zero Net Physical Growth’ in 1995 World Bank Publication .::. Size~: 62.28 KB | Feb 18 18:54 |
DaemonFC | it's free and Mexico is a third world country that speaks Spanish | Feb 18 18:54 |
DaemonFC | not hard to figure that one out | Feb 18 18:54 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: not just Mexico | Feb 18 18:54 |
sebsebseb | all of South America | Feb 18 18:54 |
Ender2070_ | http://www-wds.worldbank.org/servlet/main?menuPK=64187510&pagePK=64193027&piPK=64187937&theSitePK=523679&entityID=000009265_3961219103404 | Feb 18 18:54 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Feb 18 18:54 |
sebsebseb | is Spannish speaking counteries | Feb 18 18:54 |
sebsebseb | except for Brazil | Feb 18 18:54 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: not Brazil | Feb 18 18:54 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: :) | Feb 18 18:54 |
MinceR | well, at least they know the concept of freedom in "third world countries" | Feb 18 18:55 |
MinceR | even if they don't in jesusland | Feb 18 18:55 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, Not really, they're just broke | Feb 18 18:55 |
sebsebseb | MinceR: uh? | Feb 18 18:55 |
DaemonFC | and Windows Starter is an insult even to them | Feb 18 18:55 |
DaemonFC | :D | Feb 18 18:55 |
FurnaceBoy | MinceR: it's a stretch to call Mexico 3rd world, let alone South America -- especially by an USAlien hahaha | Feb 18 18:55 |
sebsebseb | South American and that have many pirated versions of Windows | Feb 18 18:55 |
sebsebseb | with malware in them as well | Feb 18 18:55 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: yeah, one must be _broke_ to not want to use winblows. what was i thinking? | Feb 18 18:55 |
MinceR | FurnaceBoy: DaemonFC called them a third world country, not me. that's why the quotes are there. :> | Feb 18 18:55 |
sebsebseb | MinceR: yeah these free as in price OS's are better than Windows :D | Feb 18 18:55 |
FurnaceBoy | MinceR: yes I know | Feb 18 18:56 |
sebsebseb | except for people who want to run silly software or silly hardware of course | Feb 18 18:56 |
FurnaceBoy | MinceR: it's consistent with his general level of cluelessness about the rest of the world | Feb 18 18:56 |
MinceR | indeed | Feb 18 18:56 |
sebsebseb | yes Adobe Photoshop for example is silly software | Feb 18 18:56 |
sebsebseb | yes it's silly, even though that's what loads of pro graphics designers use | Feb 18 18:56 |
Ender2070_ | http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Economy/story?id=7452561 | Feb 18 18:56 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Food Stamps Create Jobs… in India - ABC News .::. Size~: 66.43 KB | Feb 18 18:56 |
DaemonFC | free is the right price when you make about $7 US for a 10 hour workday | Feb 18 18:56 |
MinceR | i'm not sure if it's silly, but it sucks for sure | Feb 18 18:56 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: well, it is overpriced. and it suffers from the monopoly effect, for now | Feb 18 18:56 |
DaemonFC | tand that's a good job there | Feb 18 18:56 |
sebsebseb | silly as in non cross platform software :D in this context | Feb 18 18:57 |
DaemonFC | not $7 an hour, $7 for 10 hours | Feb 18 18:57 |
*FurnaceBoy has used Photoshop professionally since 0.8x betas | Feb 18 18:57 | |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: not cross-platform? :) | Feb 18 18:57 |
sebsebseb | also Adobe is propritary software screw them | Feb 18 18:57 |
sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: well no Desktop Linux version | Feb 18 18:57 |
FurnaceBoy | it's only a matter of time | Feb 18 18:57 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yes, that's a ridiculous situation, but Adobe will port it eventually. | Feb 18 18:57 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, Mexico is only third world for the poor, which happen to make up over 90% of the population | Feb 18 18:57 |
sebsebseb | so yeah not cross platofrm, in this context, cross platform means native, Windows, Desktop Linux, and Mac OS X, versions | Feb 18 18:57 |
MinceR | or not | Feb 18 18:57 |
DaemonFC | the rich tend to be obscenely rich | Feb 18 18:57 |
MinceR | apparently adobe prefers whining to porting | Feb 18 18:57 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: poverty is rife in the usa. | Feb 18 18:57 |
DaemonFC | and the rich have privatized services | Feb 18 18:58 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: that's not how that expression works | Feb 18 18:58 |
MinceR | s/expression/term/ | Feb 18 18:58 |
sebsebseb | and most photoshop users home users anyway, have it pirated, probably | Feb 18 18:58 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb, And don't even need it | Feb 18 18:58 |
sebsebseb | yep and don't even need it | Feb 18 18:58 |
DaemonFC | Photoshop is overkill for most people | Feb 18 18:58 |
FurnaceBoy | yes | Feb 18 18:58 |
FurnaceBoy | overpriced, overkill. and indubitably bloated. | Feb 18 18:58 |
FurnaceBoy | it's a cash cow | Feb 18 18:58 |
sebsebseb | yeah cash cows, software that computer ignorants think are so great, but really aren't that great at all | Feb 18 18:59 |
sebsebseb | Photoshop | Feb 18 18:59 |
sebsebseb | Windows | Feb 18 18:59 |
DaemonFC | I downloaded it once just to check into it and ended up uninstalling it and wondering how anyone would pay hundreds of dollars for it | Feb 18 18:59 |
sebsebseb | Microsoft Office | Feb 18 18:59 |
sebsebseb | and so on | Feb 18 18:59 |
_goblin | I see the DOJ have given the green light to Yahoo/Microsoft | Feb 18 18:59 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: it is true taht it's a professional necessity. but that's an unfortunate temporary situation. | Feb 18 18:59 |
DaemonFC | Even Gimp has more than I use | Feb 18 18:59 |
sebsebseb | _goblin: I was thinking about that earlier, it might be nice for some of us to give Canonical money, whilst we get something in return, but there are better ways they could do it | Feb 18 19:00 |
_goblin | for me theres two ways you could look at it.... | Feb 18 19:00 |
DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy, As for the price being why someone would go after FOSS, it is to some extent | Feb 18 19:00 |
DaemonFC | I used to have a hard drive full of unlicensed MS Office, unlicensed PowerDVD, etc. | Feb 18 19:01 |
DaemonFC | but it's not worth dealing with that when OOo and VLC work better | Feb 18 19:01 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: of course it is | Feb 18 19:01 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: uhmm this channel is pubically logged, piracy authorities could read it | Feb 18 19:01 |
_goblin | either a/ Canonical are taking money from Microsoft.....or b/ Microsoft think that Ubuntu is a viable enough platform in terms of functionality and popularity to give their Bing a benefit in terms of hits. | Feb 18 19:01 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb, so? | Feb 18 19:01 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: that's one reason F/OSS is going to grow | Feb 18 19:01 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: the "screw users for everything you can get while offering next to nothing in return" business model is dying. | Feb 18 19:02 |
DaemonFC | It's not worth paying for something when there's freeware (and that's one aspect of FOSS) is out there and works as well or better | Feb 18 19:02 |
_goblin | Microsoft money it doesn't matter...if Canonical can make a nice revenue stream then it can only be good news for the end user. | Feb 18 19:02 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: it depended on lockin, which depends on ignorance | Feb 18 19:02 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: Freeware is free as in price, but not freedom | Feb 18 19:02 |
sebsebseb | since the source code is closed source | Feb 18 19:02 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb, Most Free Software is also free as in price | Feb 18 19:03 |
sebsebseb | some people mistakinly will call opensource/freesoftware freeware | Feb 18 19:03 |
DaemonFC | making it freeware at the same time | Feb 18 19:03 |
DaemonFC | :) | Feb 18 19:03 |
sebsebseb | Freeware is more of a Windows thing also really | Feb 18 19:03 |
sebsebseb | when it comes to Desktop Linux at the moment, and freeware, we have Flash and that's about it | Feb 18 19:03 |
sebsebseb | Google Earth as well | Feb 18 19:03 |
DaemonFC | AMD used to describe Linux as like "a freeware UNIX varient" or something to the effect | Feb 18 19:03 |
DaemonFC | I didn't like that | Feb 18 19:04 |
sebsebseb | in a way you could say those closed source propritary nivida drivers are freeware, but we woudn't normalley mention them being freeware | Feb 18 19:04 |
DaemonFC | you could fit that definition by having something proprietary that was actually based on UNIX code | Feb 18 19:04 |
DaemonFC | :) | Feb 18 19:04 |
DaemonFC | like when Sun was handing out free Solaris 10 DVDs | Feb 18 19:04 |
sebsebseb | I was also thinking earlier about | Feb 18 19:05 |
sebsebseb | if in a way it's a good thing for XP to be supported for another four years | Feb 18 19:05 |
sebsebseb | instead of it running out of support this April | Feb 18 19:05 |
sebsebseb | let's be realistic is Desktop Linux ready for the majority of the mass computer users? nope | Feb 18 19:05 |
DaemonFC | pretty much every Unix-like system out there today is more of a "unix-plus" or perhaps a POSIX-plus | Feb 18 19:06 |
Ender2070_ | <DaemonFC> like when Sun was handing out free Solaris 10 DVDs | Feb 18 19:06 |
sebsebseb | will most Windows users that are currently using XP, want to upgrade to Vista or Vista version 2? nope | Feb 18 19:06 |
Ender2070_ | they still are giving out free solaris disks | Feb 18 19:06 |
Ender2070_ | opensolaris | Feb 18 19:06 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, Not OpenSolaris | Feb 18 19:06 |
DaemonFC | I mean before they did that | Feb 18 19:06 |
DaemonFC | they were giving out free Solaris 10 DVD sets | Feb 18 19:06 |
DaemonFC | I got one | Feb 18 19:06 |
Ender2070_ | i got one too | Feb 18 19:06 |
Ender2070_ | i also have opensolaris ones | Feb 18 19:06 |
sebsebseb | then when next Windows comes out, I guess won't be able to easilly upgrade to it from XP, so more clean installs will happen? or people wil buy new computers instead? and then less zombie/botnet pc's ? | Feb 18 19:07 |
DaemonFC | The Solaris 10 with an x86 and sparc DVD in the case? | Feb 18 19:07 |
Ender2070_ | yes | Feb 18 19:07 |
sebsebseb | also I hope that browser ballot will be a success | Feb 18 19:07 |
sebsebseb | it's next month | Feb 18 19:08 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb, If someone has XP right now, it's probably old and beaten to hell | Feb 18 19:08 |
sebsebseb | ,but apparnatlly they will offer like 11 browsers, but what? I hope they won't offer any IE shells, those are fake browsers | Feb 18 19:08 |
DaemonFC | how would you upgrade a messy virus infected XP to Windows 7? | Feb 18 19:08 |
DaemonFC | :) | Feb 18 19:08 |
sebsebseb | Mozilla Firefox, Seamonkey, Opera, Safari, Chromeium, Chrome, Safari, and K-Meleon, but what else is there for Windows when it comes to real browsers? | Feb 18 19:08 |
Ender2070_ | Chromium +1 | Feb 18 19:09 |
sebsebseb | That is not 11 browsers what I just mentioned | Feb 18 19:09 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb, There's Swift | Feb 18 19:09 |
DaemonFC | is that still around? | Feb 18 19:09 |
sebsebseb | oh yeah Swiftfox | Feb 18 19:09 |
sebsebseb | edited version of Firefox for a certain proccessor | Feb 18 19:09 |
sebsebseb | I think that's still around | Feb 18 19:09 |
sebsebseb | also I guess Iceweasel has a Windows version | Feb 18 19:09 |
sebsebseb | ,but even so we don't have 11 browsers? | Feb 18 19:10 |
DaemonFC | http://www.webdevelopersnotes.com/design/browsers_for_windows.php3 | Feb 18 19:10 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: List of Web browsers for Windows .::. Size~: 39.83 KB | Feb 18 19:10 |
DaemonFC | Apparently someone ported Midori | Feb 18 19:10 |
DaemonFC | There's K-Meleon, I used to use that on my old Windows 98 box | Feb 18 19:11 |
sebsebseb | well they better not have an IE shell or more than one in their browser ballot | Feb 18 19:11 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: I already mentioend K-Meleon | Feb 18 19:11 |
DaemonFC | ooops | Feb 18 19:11 |
sebsebseb | I used to run that from a USB stick sometimes at college, (not same thing in UK as it is in USA) | Feb 18 19:11 |
sebsebseb | plus I have had it installed in Windows of course, but also Wine | Feb 18 19:12 |
sebsebseb | I really like it's icon | Feb 18 19:12 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb, Konqueror runs on Windows :) | Feb 18 19:12 |
DaemonFC | but I doubt anyone is using it there | Feb 18 19:12 |
sebsebseb | I would use Firefox mainly though, since yeah best one to support | Feb 18 19:12 |
sebsebseb | good strong number two | Feb 18 19:12 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: you said Safari twice!! | Feb 18 19:12 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: Well some KDE 4 apps can be run natively on Windows | Feb 18 19:12 |
DaemonFC | yeah, Some better than others | Feb 18 19:13 |
DaemonFC | I tried out the KDE 4.3 for Windows on Windows 7 | Feb 18 19:13 |
DaemonFC | most apps work well | Feb 18 19:13 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: SOlaris 10 DVD is freely downloadable | Feb 18 19:13 |
sebsebseb | KDE 4 can run on haiku as well with a 3rd party program :) | Feb 18 19:13 |
sebsebseb | I don't like KDE 4 much at all | Feb 18 19:13 |
sebsebseb | ,but | Feb 18 19:13 |
sebsebseb | having it's apps on other platforms that can be good | Feb 18 19:13 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb, How does KDE work on Haiku? KDE requires an X server. | Feb 18 19:14 |
DaemonFC | or do you just mean the apps? | Feb 18 19:14 |
sebsebseb | I will soemtimes use KDE 4, I haven't tried 4.4 yet. and well Konversation in Gnome yep, and sometimes other KDE apps | Feb 18 19:14 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: there's a 3rd party program | Feb 18 19:14 |
sebsebseb | and with it KDE 4 can be run, but also Gimp and so on | Feb 18 19:14 |
sebsebseb | You guys got snow as well? | Feb 18 19:15 |
FurnaceBoy | nothing here | Feb 18 19:15 |
FurnaceBoy | we haven't had a foot all winter. (Toronto) | Feb 18 19:15 |
DaemonFC | ugggh | Feb 18 19:15 |
sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: it snowed quite a bit last year here, and then today as well | Feb 18 19:15 |
sebsebseb | we don't tend to get snow here | Feb 18 19:15 |
DaemonFC | the last thing I need to see is more snow | Feb 18 19:15 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: where's here? | Feb 18 19:15 |
sebsebseb | and if we do, it tends to be a sucky amount | Feb 18 19:15 |
sebsebseb | ,but today it's been good snow | Feb 18 19:15 |
sebsebseb | and it was snowing like all afternoon | Feb 18 19:15 |
sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: England, but my part doesn't tend to get it, or a good amount, when another part does get a good amount | Feb 18 19:16 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yeah | Feb 18 19:16 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: you had our winter, we had yours. | Feb 18 19:16 |
DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy, Do you get weather reports in Fahrenheit there? Just curious. | Feb 18 19:16 |
sebsebseb | snow causes quite a bit of trouble for this countrey as well | Feb 18 19:16 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: we normally get a few feet, and a blizzard, but this year warm temperatures and less than 1 foot snow | Feb 18 19:16 |
sebsebseb | since it's not set up for snow | Feb 18 19:16 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yes | Feb 18 19:16 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: no, C | Feb 18 19:17 |
DaemonFC | hmmm | Feb 18 19:17 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: we're metric | Feb 18 19:17 |
DaemonFC | yeah, the only thing the metric system hasn't fucked with it time measurement | Feb 18 19:17 |
DaemonFC | yet | Feb 18 19:17 |
sebsebseb | So you guys been watching the winter olympics | Feb 18 19:17 |
sebsebseb | womens down hill skiing was good | Feb 18 19:17 |
DaemonFC | eventually people will be asking what year is it in the US | Feb 18 19:17 |
*FurnaceBoy hasn't | Feb 18 19:18 | |
sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: I haven't seen most of it either | Feb 18 19:18 |
FurnaceBoy | i'm too busy for tv .. for better or worse | Feb 18 19:18 |
sebsebseb | one woman, feel very soon after starting | Feb 18 19:18 |
sebsebseb | fell above | Feb 18 19:18 |
sebsebseb | so that wasn't that good, for her | Feb 18 19:18 |
sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: you seem quite active on IRC though, being on IRC, isn't being busy? | Feb 18 19:19 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: I shouldn't be here | Feb 18 19:19 |
FurnaceBoy | :) | Feb 18 19:19 |
sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: IRC at work? | Feb 18 19:19 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: arguably | Feb 18 19:19 |
sebsebseb | in other words yes? | Feb 18 19:19 |
FurnaceBoy | it's a distraction from work, yes | Feb 18 19:19 |
FurnaceBoy | which is why i periodically disconnect :) | Feb 18 19:19 |
sebsebseb | quite a lot of people do IRC at work, and maybe instant messaging and Facebook/Twitter as well, or just those and not IRC, you know what I mean | Feb 18 19:20 |
DaemonFC | I can't wait for summer, gets up to 80 or so in June, I'll go to the lake and swim :) | Feb 18 19:20 |
FurnaceBoy | yeah, i should simply ban it from certain hour periods | Feb 18 19:20 |
DaemonFC | no fucking snow :D | Feb 18 19:20 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: spam bots in the Freenode support channel, happended again | Feb 18 19:20 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: happended earlier also | Feb 18 19:20 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: I feel personally I lack discipline for succumbing to such distractions .. and don't forget the traditional one, Slashdot. | Feb 18 19:20 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb, Well, they're trying to k-line them, they snagged you somehow I guess *shrugs* | Feb 18 19:21 |
sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: ah yes | Feb 18 19:21 |
sebsebseb | Linux news when meant to be doing something else can be quite fun | Feb 18 19:21 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: name high lights | Feb 18 19:21 |
sebsebseb | like before | Feb 18 19:21 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: snagged me? | Feb 18 19:21 |
DaemonFC | well, you said you got k-lined | Feb 18 19:21 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: yes I did | Feb 18 19:21 |
FurnaceBoy | any GNOME wonks here? | Feb 18 19:21 |
DaemonFC | happened around the time of a spam bot invasion, right? | Feb 18 19:21 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: not sure | Feb 18 19:22 |
sebsebseb | ,but someone was saying how he had also been banned/k-lined soon after I had been from Spannish Ubuntu channel | Feb 18 19:22 |
DaemonFC | back to browsers, I wonder if there's an updated Seamonkey in the Mozilla PPA | Feb 18 19:22 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: anyway it was some spam measure that got me or whatever, I got an explination and appology from some Freenode staff (well I think he was) | Feb 18 19:22 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu still had version 1.x | Feb 18 19:22 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: Ubuntu is a joke really | Feb 18 19:23 |
sebsebseb | how a lot of users will have to turn to ppa's now days for something | Feb 18 19:23 |
sebsebseb | or the other | Feb 18 19:23 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb, Yes, I would be using Debian Testing but for a few problems | Feb 18 19:23 |
DaemonFC | not the least of which is ATI | Feb 18 19:23 |
sebsebseb | oh | Feb 18 19:23 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: well | Feb 18 19:23 |
sebsebseb | I got this Mandriva version for now, but when 10.04 comes out I will do my little file system test | Feb 18 19:23 |
sebsebseb | have it a few days or a week or something, then Debian Testing | Feb 18 19:23 |
sebsebseb | untill next Mandriva I guess, unless I become happy enough with Debian Testing | Feb 18 19:24 |
DaemonFC | Debian Testing moved to X Server 1.7 the other day (it had been on 1.6) | Feb 18 19:24 |
DaemonFC | so ATI no worky :) | Feb 18 19:24 |
sebsebseb | I been doing a littel vm testing of 10.04 also | Feb 18 19:24 |
sebsebseb | and alpha 3 this Thursday :) | Feb 18 19:24 |
sebsebseb | not today | Feb 18 19:24 |
sebsebseb | a week | Feb 18 19:24 |
DaemonFC | ATI only seems to give a shit about Ubuntu | Feb 18 19:24 |
sebsebseb | there's already the social features though the me menu, if the updates are done to alpha 2 | Feb 18 19:24 |
Diablo-D3 | http://clientsfromhell.tumblr.com/post/271682755/release-of-an-iphone-app-game | Feb 18 19:25 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Clients From Hell : Release of an IPhone App/Game .::. Size~: 10.34 KB | Feb 18 19:25 |
DaemonFC | and I hope the FOSS driver makes me not have to give a shit about ATI | Feb 18 19:25 |
sebsebseb | and they seem rather useless, when no accounts are set up to use it | Feb 18 19:25 |
sebsebseb | and the social stuff has been linked to their editing on the top right hrm | Feb 18 19:25 |
sebsebseb | fast user account swticher editing | Feb 18 19:25 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb, ATI jsut released another Catalyst/FGLRX today, and not only does it still not support X server 1.7, but it introduces new problems with Compiz sometimes | Feb 18 19:25 |
sebsebseb | so can't just remove the social rubbish, whilst keeping the thing on top right, which I now find ok, the 9.10 one that is, really I want in system menu, so I remove thing on top right and it's in system menu with shut down and log out | Feb 18 19:26 |
DaemonFC | AND they still haven't documented the new release notes | Feb 18 19:26 |
DaemonFC | :) | Feb 18 19:26 |
sebsebseb | oh and alpha 2, well got to turn the icions on in gconf editor | Feb 18 19:26 |
sebsebseb | all this silly Gnome editing etc | Feb 18 19:26 |
sebsebseb | by Gnome itself and Ubuntu, these days | Feb 18 19:26 |
DaemonFC | AMD didn't even TEST the fucking thing | Feb 18 19:26 |
sebsebseb | that log in screen for 9.10 is horrible looking as well, Fedora did GDM 2 ok | Feb 18 19:26 |
DaemonFC | and it's obvious because compositing is broken badly at times | Feb 18 19:26 |
_goblin | I thought 9.10 was an improvement (login screen) | Feb 18 19:26 |
sebsebseb | _goblin: I was in the big channel not that long ago | Feb 18 19:27 |
sebsebseb | someone came in | Feb 18 19:27 |
sebsebseb | asking how to change the theme etc, and told us it's the most horribleyst thing he had ever seen, that kind of thing | Feb 18 19:27 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb, If they don't realease a passable driver next month I'm buying a Geforce, I swear | Feb 18 19:27 |
sebsebseb | there's a 3rd party program to change background and such, but also one from two community members now or whatever | Feb 18 19:27 |
DaemonFC | I hate Nvidia as a company, but their drivers work | Feb 18 19:27 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: hate Nvidia as a company why? | Feb 18 19:27 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb, FOSS-hostile, senior management donates to backwards political causes | Feb 18 19:28 |
DaemonFC | mostly that | Feb 18 19:28 |
sebsebseb | donates to bakcwards politcal causes what do you mean? | Feb 18 19:28 |
_goblin | Do you mean the login backdrop? | Feb 18 19:28 |
sebsebseb | _goblin: back drop? | Feb 18 19:28 |
DaemonFC | oh, Republicans, anti-gay legislation, etc. | Feb 18 19:28 |
sebsebseb | not sure what your on about | Feb 18 19:29 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: | Feb 18 19:29 |
_goblin | sorry..... | Feb 18 19:29 |
sebsebseb | _goblin: why? | Feb 18 19:29 |
_goblin | lol | Feb 18 19:29 |
_goblin | out of sync...I think.... | Feb 18 19:29 |
sebsebseb | it's called capitalism and consumeris | Feb 18 19:29 |
_goblin | lost track of the conversation...... | Feb 18 19:29 |
sebsebseb | companies make money | Feb 18 19:29 |
sebsebseb | capitalism and consumerism above | Feb 18 19:29 |
sebsebseb | companies make money, they sell products, the consumer buys them | Feb 18 19:30 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb, I know, but they go out of their way to donate money towards hurting people for no reason | Feb 18 19:30 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@LudovicSpeaks .@AdamSerwer he's a terrorist..round up his kind&send them to Gitmo // dead people? what's wrong with just burying them? | Feb 18 19:30 | |
DaemonFC | it doesn't even make them money later | Feb 18 19:30 |
sebsebseb | most don't really think that much about what they buy, and use Windows | Feb 18 19:30 |
sebsebseb | when it comes to computing | Feb 18 19:30 |
sebsebseb | and they will buy iphones and want that working with Ubuntu, if they up swtiching, and have their little ipods | Feb 18 19:30 |
sebsebseb | and just eat up the technology companies give them basically, untill noticeable problems, such as nasty viruses in Windows | Feb 18 19:31 |
*DaemonFC wonders what the hell is going on outside | Feb 18 19:31 | |
sebsebseb | in fact some won't care enough, they will just pay someone to fix it, or not care and live with the problems, or figure out how to clean install Windows them selves eventually, and continue using Windows | Feb 18 19:31 |
DaemonFC | sounds like a whale giving birth | Feb 18 19:31 |
sebsebseb | after all it's Windows, it's what everyone else uses' right? so they have to as well? | Feb 18 19:31 |
sebsebseb | what annoys me personalley is this one | Feb 18 19:31 |
sebsebseb | wierless | Feb 18 19:31 |
sebsebseb | Ubuntu sucks for a lot of wireless devices, thing is Mandriva well it may just work there | Feb 18 19:32 |
sebsebseb | I have told people to try Mandriva for a wireless device that didn't just work in Ubuntu, and oh yes it just worked in Mandriva | Feb 18 19:32 |
sebsebseb | and a lot of new Ubuntu users woudn't know about other distros, or be a bit scared or whatever to try another and uh. and some won't do that all, just go back to Windows, if they can't get it working | Feb 18 19:32 |
sebsebseb | and same thing for other hardware, if it won't work, and they want it badly enough, and they can't get it working, back to Windows they go, it might have been Ubuntu's fault, it might have been a hardware manufactures fault, but now a lot of them will be thinking Desktop Linux is bad | Feb 18 19:33 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: imagine the amount of people that have gone back to Windows, because of what I just put | Feb 18 19:33 |
sebsebseb | it's things like a lot of wireless devices still being an issue, that is holding Desktop Linux back from the main streame, and probably more so than a lot of Windows software not being able to work on it | Feb 18 19:34 |
sebsebseb | people can find alternatives, to most of their Windows rubbish, or Wine it, or vm it, but hardware hrm | Feb 18 19:35 |
sebsebseb | anyway maybe, just maybe by April 2014 | Feb 18 19:35 |
sebsebseb | when XP will run out of support | Feb 18 19:35 |
MinceR | http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/02/18/0429258/86-of-Windows-7-PCs-Maxing-Out-Memory | Feb 18 19:36 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Slashdot Technology Story | 86% of Windows 7 PCs Maxing Out Memory .::. Size~: 166.89 KB | Feb 18 19:36 |
MinceR | so much about the 'leaner vista' bullshit | Feb 18 19:36 |
MinceR | s/about/for/ | Feb 18 19:36 |
sebsebseb | Ubuntu and possibily quite a few other distros as well, will be ready for most main streame computer users. April 14, ok Ubuntu 10.04 LTS this April, 12.04 LTS and then around the time XP runs out of support 14.04 LTS | Feb 18 19:37 |
sebsebseb | the LTS releasses are the ones they take truely seriously right? | Feb 18 19:37 |
sebsebseb | or maybe mobile devices will hit off a lot more, and the desktop will really start to not matter much anymore, oh and the mobile companies and turning to Linux a lot more now. | Feb 18 19:38 |
sebsebseb | I think I have put stuff like this before in here, but oh well | Feb 18 19:38 |
sebsebseb | oh and that was a lot of enter :D | Feb 18 19:39 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb, The 2.6.32 kernel is special :) | Feb 18 19:40 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: How so? | Feb 18 19:41 |
DaemonFC | it's going to be maintained for 2+ years | Feb 18 19:41 |
DaemonFC | upstream | Feb 18 19:41 |
sebsebseb | oh didn't know that | Feb 18 19:41 |
DaemonFC | so you'll see kernel.org backporting patches into it well into the .30's most likely | Feb 18 19:42 |
DaemonFC | should be pretty stable | Feb 18 19:42 |
sebsebseb | (end up switching and won't do that at all, above, little mistakes yeah) | Feb 18 19:43 |
Ender2070_ | hmm | Feb 18 19:43 |
Ender2070_ | fedora 12 has that kernel in testing too | Feb 18 19:43 |
Ender2070_ | kde 4.4 is in updates-testing | Feb 18 19:43 |
DaemonFC | Debian Squeeze will freeze 2.6.32 | Feb 18 19:43 |
DaemonFC | 2.6.32 is in the squeeze freeze :) | Feb 18 19:44 |
sebsebseb | (and this: it may have been a manufactures fault, but now....) | Feb 18 19:44 |
DaemonFC | http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Kernel-Log-Long-term-maintenance-for-2-6-32-util-linux-ng-extended-910616.html | Feb 18 19:44 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Kernel Log: Long-term maintenance for 2.6.32, util-linux-ng extended - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 40.32 KB | Feb 18 19:44 |
DaemonFC | "Linux 2.6.32 is to be maintained for 2 to 3 years within the stable series" | Feb 18 19:45 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: well that's nice for Ubuntu | Feb 18 19:45 |
sebsebseb | since 10.04 they have to support for | Feb 18 19:45 |
DaemonFC | 2.6.27 is the last one they did this with and it's on 2.6.27.45 I think | Feb 18 19:45 |
sebsebseb | 3 years on the desktop and 5 on the server | Feb 18 19:45 |
sebsebseb | 10.04 will use 2.6.32 I assume | Feb 18 19:45 |
sebsebseb | 3 years on the desktop hrm | Feb 18 19:46 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb, Yeah, Ubuntu may have to carry 2.6.32 by themselves for a couple years, but really, after 45 point releases how bad could it be? right? | Feb 18 19:46 |
DaemonFC | by that time it won't be more than a security patch now and again | Feb 18 19:46 |
Ender2070_ | I would hope 10.04 would use 2.6.33 | Feb 18 19:46 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, I hope not | Feb 18 19:47 |
Ender2070_ | then Fedora 13 will be way better | Feb 18 19:47 |
DaemonFC | someone competent is maintaining 2.6.32 | Feb 18 19:47 |
DaemonFC | why would you want Ubuntu to maintain the backporting of crap into their kernel? | Feb 18 19:47 |
Ender2070_ | hopefully they backport all the btrfs work from .33 then | Feb 18 19:47 |
sebsebseb | Ender2070_: no | Feb 18 19:47 |
sebsebseb | 10.04 won't use BTFS | Feb 18 19:47 |
sebsebseb | BTFS is also rather unstable still? | Feb 18 19:47 |
Ender2070_ | false | Feb 18 19:48 |
MinceR | btrfs? | Feb 18 19:48 |
DaemonFC | yes, it's unstable | Feb 18 19:48 |
DaemonFC | yes, they still have on disk format changes | Feb 18 19:48 |
Ender2070_ | one of fedora 13's features will be btrfs powered snapshots built into yum | Feb 18 19:48 |
DaemonFC | no the utilities aren't really ready | Feb 18 19:48 |
Ender2070_ | stop spreading lies | Feb 18 19:48 |
DaemonFC | hell no you shouldn't use it yet | Feb 18 19:48 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: they need about 5 yrs to shake that down before you'd want to use it in production :) | Feb 18 19:48 |
sebsebseb | Ender2070_: Fedora is more cutting edge than Ubuntu | Feb 18 19:48 |
Ender2070_ | the on disk format is not subject to any planned changes | Feb 18 19:48 |
DaemonFC | go ahead but it's your data :) | Feb 18 19:48 |
sebsebseb | Ender2070_: Fedora tend to get later stuff first as ar esult | Feb 18 19:48 |
sebsebseb | result | Feb 18 19:48 |
MinceR | there was some uncertainty about that feature making it into 13, afaik | Feb 18 19:48 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: most filesystems we use at 20+ years old; even ZFS is 6-odd years old in GA | Feb 18 19:48 |
Ender2070_ | well Fedora > Ubuntu | Feb 18 19:48 |
sebsebseb | Ender2070_: Fedora can also brake quite easilly I think? also Fedora 11 woudn't even like my partition set up, just standard Ubuntu partitions and a Vista | Feb 18 19:49 |
sebsebseb | the installer gave me an error | Feb 18 19:49 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, The new driver in new kernel versions will see you have the old on disk format and automatically update it | Feb 18 19:49 |
Ender2070_ | Fedora pushes new software technologies forward | Feb 18 19:49 |
sebsebseb | told me to report some bug or whatever | Feb 18 19:49 |
sebsebseb | when I tried to partition | Feb 18 19:49 |
DaemonFC | that's the only kind of format changes they're allowing at this point | Feb 18 19:49 |
Ender2070_ | Ubuntu rides on stuff Fedora got working for everyone else | Feb 18 19:49 |
sebsebseb | Ender2070_: Fedora is not for newbies | Feb 18 19:49 |
sebsebseb | Ender2070_: Fedora is not for business either | Feb 18 19:49 |
FurnaceBoy | Ender2070_: that could be spelled "cooperation" :) | Feb 18 19:49 |
FurnaceBoy | Ender2070_: I am sure it's not all take-take | Feb 18 19:50 |
MinceR | it can be for business, if you have good enough inhouse support :> | Feb 18 19:50 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, Even XFS still gets minor on disk format changes now and again | Feb 18 19:50 |
sebsebseb | Ender2070_: Fedora is to cutting edge for business | Feb 18 19:50 |
FurnaceBoy | Ender2070_: remember Debian has done a shedload of work | Feb 18 19:50 |
Ender2070_ | Most of ubuntu's stuff is take take | Feb 18 19:50 |
DaemonFC | but they let you opt into them | Feb 18 19:50 |
sebsebseb | Ender2070_: and Fedora has stuff in it, that new Linux users won't need | Feb 18 19:50 |
sebsebseb | Ender2070_: well yeah | Feb 18 19:50 |
sebsebseb | Ender2070_: take stuff from Debian | Feb 18 19:50 |
Ender2070_ | sure but im not talking about new linux users | Feb 18 19:50 |
sebsebseb | do a bit of their own changing | Feb 18 19:50 |
sebsebseb | and release a distro | Feb 18 19:50 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: but this is explicitly allowed | Feb 18 19:50 |
Ender2070_ | im talking about what i personally want to run on my own computers | Feb 18 19:50 |
DaemonFC | XFS's policy is that it has to be compatible with SGI IRIX and you must be able to mount the same file system in IRIX and Linux | Feb 18 19:50 |
sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: I don't want to run Ubuntu for a long time on my computer anymore | Feb 18 19:51 |
sebsebseb | that's it | Feb 18 19:51 |
Ender2070_ | when RHEL 6 hits the shelves, pwnage.ca is gonna get upgrades | Feb 18 19:51 |
sebsebseb | it's over | Feb 18 19:51 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: well that's fine,i don't run it either. | Feb 18 19:51 |
Ender2070_ | via centos 6 | Feb 18 19:51 |
sebsebseb | Ubuntu have messed up to much for me to be happy enough with them now, for my own personal long term computer usage | Feb 18 19:51 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, I still use XFS, it's still getting a lot of development love :) | Feb 18 19:51 |
sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: right now I am using Mandriva, which is Redhat based | Feb 18 19:51 |
DaemonFC | and it's hella-fast | Feb 18 19:51 |
sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: now Mandriva is good for newbies as well as more expereinced users | Feb 18 19:51 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: apart from being obsolete :) | Feb 18 19:51 |
DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy, It's faring better than Ext4 still | Feb 18 19:52 |
DaemonFC | Ext4 is new! | Feb 18 19:52 |
Ender2070_ | the whole world would get turned upside down if oracle gplv3'ed ZFS | Feb 18 19:52 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: write-in-place filesystems are all fading into history | Feb 18 19:52 |
FurnaceBoy | Ender2070_: yes :) | Feb 18 19:52 |
DaemonFC | The tide is going to turn when BtrFS is stable, I won't argue | Feb 18 19:52 |
sebsebseb | file system talk again | Feb 18 19:52 |
DaemonFC | but for right now the better choice is still XFS | Feb 18 19:52 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you can use COW now, with NILFS2 | Feb 18 19:52 |
Ender2070_ | btrfs is getting there | Feb 18 19:52 |
sebsebseb | I guess pretty much any file system would do for my computer useage though | Feb 18 19:52 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: no, it's ZFS. it does exist, you know. :) | Feb 18 19:52 |
DaemonFC | ZFS is unusable in Linux except with FUSE | Feb 18 19:53 |
DaemonFC | so it's not an option | Feb 18 19:53 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: so why stick with LInux? | Feb 18 19:53 |
Ender2070_ | opensolaris | Feb 18 19:53 |
FurnaceBoy | +1 | Feb 18 19:53 |
sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: Fedora better than Ubuntu uhmm that depends on the user | Feb 18 19:53 |
Ender2070_ | its still free software | Feb 18 19:53 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: I don't use any of these | Feb 18 19:53 |
sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: also it seems quite a lot of people think RPM distros are bad, because of dependancy hell or whatever | Feb 18 19:53 |
Ender2070_ | the license is a little weaker but its still open source | Feb 18 19:53 |
DaemonFC | because OpenSlowlaris is crap | Feb 18 19:53 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: hm? | Feb 18 19:53 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: specifics? | Feb 18 19:53 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: spoken like somebody who's totally unfamiliar with it. | Feb 18 19:53 |
DaemonFC | look at any head-on benchmark | Feb 18 19:53 |
DaemonFC | if I wanted to use ZFS that bad, I'd use it on FreeBSD | Feb 18 19:54 |
DaemonFC | not Slowlaris | Feb 18 19:54 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: if you understood ZFS, you'd want it that abd | Feb 18 19:54 |
FurnaceBoy | bad* | Feb 18 19:54 |
Ender2070_ | FreeBSD needs to keep up with ZFS dev | Feb 18 19:54 |
sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: ah I started messaging you, when I was meant to be messing Ender2070_ | Feb 18 19:54 |
sebsebseb | messaging above | Feb 18 19:54 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: ahahaha revenge for what I did the other day :) | Feb 18 19:54 |
DaemonFC | ZFS is probably the only ray of sunshine in the entire OpenSolaris world | Feb 18 19:54 |
DaemonFC | :) | Feb 18 19:54 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: accidentally | Feb 18 19:54 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: wrog | Feb 18 19:54 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: wrong | Feb 18 19:54 |
DaemonFC | and FreeBSD, a better OS, has it too | Feb 18 19:55 |
Ender2070_ | i couldn't even mount my current ZFS filesystem from my fileserver if I installed freebsd on it | Feb 18 19:55 |
sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: what's that? I don't remember or whatever | Feb 18 19:55 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: why don't you learn about things before you talk about them? | Feb 18 19:55 |
sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: oh when you kept on high lighting me loads, and was meant to message someone else? | Feb 18 19:55 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yeah :) | Feb 18 19:55 |
DaemonFC | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_shanghai_opensolaris&num=1 | Feb 18 19:55 |
Ender2070_ | DaemonFC - dont forget dtrace | Feb 18 19:55 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: [Phoronix] AMD Shanghai Opteron: Linux vs. OpenSolaris Benchmarks .::. Size~: 20.24 KB | Feb 18 19:55 |
DaemonFC | Read 'em and weep | Feb 18 19:55 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: because they came in yellow which is really hard to read | Feb 18 19:55 |
FurnaceBoy | Ender2070_: and zones. | Feb 18 19:55 |
FurnaceBoy | Ender2070_: and RBAC | Feb 18 19:55 |
DaemonFC | even Ubuntu assrapes Slowlaris | Feb 18 19:55 |
FurnaceBoy | Ender2070_: and all the rest | Feb 18 19:55 |
sebsebseb | Ender2070_: Fedora better or worse than Ubuntu, depends on the user | Feb 18 19:55 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you have NO idea what you are talking about. | Feb 18 19:55 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: go study Solaris | Feb 18 19:56 |
Ender2070_ | for me Fedora is better | Feb 18 19:56 |
sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: came in yellow? | Feb 18 19:56 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: highlighting | Feb 18 19:56 |
Ender2070_ | personally | Feb 18 19:56 |
DaemonFC | the only way you ever see Slowlaris overtake Linux is in Java benchmarks | Feb 18 19:56 |
DaemonFC | no surprise there, right? | Feb 18 19:56 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yellow on light grey-- very hard to read-- so i got the wrong nick | Feb 18 19:56 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: wrong | Feb 18 19:56 |
sebsebseb | Ender2070_: Fedora can brake easilly or whatever, plus certain people think RPM distros are bad since dependancy hell in the past or whatever | Feb 18 19:56 |
Ender2070_ | I know enough about linux that nothing on Fedora gets me down | Feb 18 19:56 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you really have no clue, you don't know the capabilities of Solaris | Feb 18 19:56 |
DaemonFC | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_shanghai_opensolaris&num=2 | Feb 18 19:56 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: [Phoronix] AMD Shanghai Opteron: Linux vs. OpenSolaris Benchmarks .::. Size~: 18.38 KB | Feb 18 19:56 |
DaemonFC | OpenSlowlaris nearly gets lapped by Ubuntu | Feb 18 19:57 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: study that, better yet, use it, and come back and talk about it | Feb 18 19:57 |
DaemonFC | :) | Feb 18 19:57 |
DaemonFC | on exactly the stuff I tend to do | Feb 18 19:57 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: we are talking about capabilities that linux does not have. | Feb 18 19:57 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: name them | Feb 18 19:57 |
DaemonFC | well, you can see Ubuntu dusting Slowlaris on media encoding | Feb 18 19:57 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: eh? | Feb 18 19:57 |
DaemonFC | twice as fast, nearly in some cases | Feb 18 19:57 |
Ender2070_ | different purposes sir | Feb 18 19:57 |
FurnaceBoy | Ender2070_: yes | Feb 18 19:58 |
DaemonFC | PHP compilation, Ubuntu beats the shit out of OpenSlowlaris | Feb 18 19:58 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you still don't get it | Feb 18 19:58 |
DaemonFC | 7zip compression, Ubuntu murders OpenSlowlaris | Feb 18 19:58 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: none of this is relevant | Feb 18 19:58 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: quit discussing a product you know nothing about | Feb 18 19:59 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: it's your worst habit | Feb 18 19:59 |
DaemonFC | GnuPG, OpenSlowlaris is painfully slow | Feb 18 19:59 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: when you are running Solaris or OpenSolaris , come talk | Feb 18 19:59 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu beats Slowlaris to a pulp, that's just the overall outcome | Feb 18 19:59 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: nonsense | Feb 18 20:00 |
DaemonFC | frags it just for kicks :) | Feb 18 20:00 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you haven't understood the conversation | Feb 18 20:00 |
Ender2070_ | ubuntu also crashes faster | Feb 18 20:00 |
DaemonFC | I understand that OpenSolaris would be crippling nearly every take I did with it | Feb 18 20:00 |
DaemonFC | *task | Feb 18 20:00 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: huh? | Feb 18 20:00 |
sebsebseb | I wasn't following the convo, but Solaris and OpenSolaris will have certain advantages over Ubuntu, but not just Ubuntu, Fedora and other Desktop Linux's as well | Feb 18 20:00 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: really. you're embarrassing yourself. | Feb 18 20:01 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: indeed | Feb 18 20:01 |
DaemonFC | How could it be this much slower? | Feb 18 20:01 |
DaemonFC | I don't care if it doesn't crash if it performs this badly | Feb 18 20:01 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: really. you're embarrassing yourself. | Feb 18 20:01 |
sebsebseb | even Windows does a few things better than Desktop Linux really, if we like it or not? | Feb 18 20:01 |
Ender2070_ | DaemonFC - what does someone care about 7zip compression when they save so much by having dtrace, zones and a reliable file system in case of hardware failure | Feb 18 20:01 |
DaemonFC | talking about reliability on PC-class hardware | Feb 18 20:02 |
DaemonFC | what's your next act? | Feb 18 20:02 |
DaemonFC | :) | Feb 18 20:02 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: listen, I'll spell it out. If Linux works fine for your narrow purpose, go ahead and use it. But when you actually need what Solaris offers, Linux hasn't got it. | Feb 18 20:02 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you don;'t know enough about Solaris to meaningfully talk about it. | Feb 18 20:02 |
FurnaceBoy | you're discussing it with people who use it every day | Feb 18 20:03 |
Ender2070_ | ZFS saved me big bucks not having to buy hardware raid, and i get free feature upgrades | Feb 18 20:03 |
DaemonFC | it just seems like it's offering me slow, incompatible, and frustrating | Feb 18 20:03 |
FurnaceBoy | Ender2070_: it *obsoletes* hardware raid. | Feb 18 20:03 |
Ender2070_ | correct | Feb 18 20:03 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: perhaps? but you never tried it. | Feb 18 20:03 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: and you can only discuss your own narrow application in any case. | Feb 18 20:03 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: try it and come back | Feb 18 20:03 |
DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy, Actually, last time I booted their LiveCD, it didn't even recognize my ethernet | Feb 18 20:03 |
FurnaceBoy | Ender2070_: amazing how few people don't get that... | Feb 18 20:03 |
DaemonFC | so it's completely useless if it can't even get that right | Feb 18 20:04 |
FurnaceBoy | Ender2070_: oups, how few GET that. | Feb 18 20:04 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: wrong | Feb 18 20:04 |
Ender2070_ | FurnaceBoy - yeah I know, they think that everyone does what they do | Feb 18 20:04 |
DaemonFC | how fucking hard is it to implement Intel gigabit ethernet? | Feb 18 20:04 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: as far as I know Solaris and OpenSolaris are more of a server OS than a Desktop OS | Feb 18 20:04 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: traditionally yes | Feb 18 20:04 |
DaemonFC | I mean there's only about 100 billion of them out there | Feb 18 20:04 |
Ender2070_ | and programming/development | Feb 18 20:04 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: they really kick serious ass there | Feb 18 20:05 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: it's also one of very few O/S qualified on same vendor's hw | Feb 18 20:05 |
sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: even though DaemonFC 's ethernet woudn't work apparnatlly :D | Feb 18 20:05 |
DaemonFC | If I was throwing it a curveball, I could understand the epic fail | Feb 18 20:05 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: he thinks that is relevant | Feb 18 20:05 |
DaemonFC | but this is little league softball | Feb 18 20:05 |
Ender2070_ | some of the KDE devs use opensolaris because of sun studio, lint, dtrace and many other reasons | Feb 18 20:05 |
sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: yeah that's a point, it doesn't tend to run on standard PC hardware anyway? | Feb 18 20:06 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: it does, but driver coverage is less than Linux. | Feb 18 20:06 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb, oddly enough my nvidia card worked great, and I had Compiz | Feb 18 20:06 |
FurnaceBoy | which is fine, because driver coverage isn't the point. | Feb 18 20:06 |
DaemonFC | which gave me something to do before throwing the CD away | Feb 18 20:06 |
Ender2070_ | DaemonFC - you were using a beta livecd | Feb 18 20:06 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: if you had persevered , we could have had a meaningful conversation about it. | Feb 18 20:06 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: we could be discussing the technologies in Solaris that Linux doesn't approach | Feb 18 20:07 |
DaemonFC | alright, I may order another CD | Feb 18 20:07 |
DaemonFC | they're free coasters after it fails to work I suppose | Feb 18 20:07 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: order uhmm, OpenSolaris can be downloaded the ISO I think, as far Solaris not sure | Feb 18 20:07 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: anyway; I run Linux on desktop as it happens, and Solaris on servers. | Feb 18 20:07 |
Ender2070_ | if you had compiz you were using one of the dev versions, 2009.06 didnt have compiz on by defeault | Feb 18 20:07 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: but it wouldn't kill me to run an OpenSolaris desktop. I would certainly not lack for "speed." | Feb 18 20:07 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, It was the CD they sent me | Feb 18 20:08 |
sebsebseb | BSD | Feb 18 20:08 |
sebsebseb | BSD | Feb 18 20:08 |
sebsebseb | BSD | Feb 18 20:08 |
sebsebseb | BSD | Feb 18 20:08 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yeah, both can be downloaded | Feb 18 20:08 |
sebsebseb | what about BSD? | Feb 18 20:08 |
DaemonFC | probably from spring of last year | Feb 18 20:08 |
MinceR | what's up with BSD? | Feb 18 20:08 |
sebsebseb | what you guys think of BSD, I have done BSD sort of in vm, then didn't get that far or whatever | Feb 18 20:08 |
DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy, How do you expect me to know anything about OpenSolaris when it doesn't even recognize vital hardware? | Feb 18 20:08 |
MinceR | i have tried to manage a freebsd jail and it was horrendous | Feb 18 20:09 |
sebsebseb | MinceR: jail? | Feb 18 20:09 |
MinceR | but it seems to work out well for some people | Feb 18 20:09 |
Ender2070_ | BSD has a niche as a server os too | Feb 18 20:09 |
MinceR | sebsebseb: improved chroot | Feb 18 20:09 |
sebsebseb | oh | Feb 18 20:09 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, PC-BSD is a better desktop | Feb 18 20:09 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: i don't mind you not knowing. I mind you not-knowing and making wild assertions about its usefulness | Feb 18 20:09 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: it was a server though :> | Feb 18 20:09 |
DaemonFC | ahhh | Feb 18 20:09 |
DaemonFC | you can install FreeBSD with the PC-BSD disc | Feb 18 20:09 |
sebsebseb | yeah PC BSD and so on | Feb 18 20:09 |
MinceR | i didn't know that | Feb 18 20:10 |
Ender2070_ | not yet, 8 isnt out | Feb 18 20:10 |
DaemonFC | without having to use the FreeBSD text installer and all | Feb 18 20:10 |
sebsebseb | i'll have to try in vm | Feb 18 20:10 |
sebsebseb | FreeBSD I tired in vm, but then something | Feb 18 20:10 |
sebsebseb | I didn't know how to install or whatever it was | Feb 18 20:10 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, http://www.pcbsd.org/ | Feb 18 20:10 |
DaemonFC | "# Brand new System Installer, allows the install of PC-BSD or FreeBSD" | Feb 18 20:10 |
Ender2070_ | my favorite bsd is openbsd | Feb 18 20:10 |
sebsebseb | anyway all these interesting great OS's out there | Feb 18 20:10 |
sebsebseb | ,but yet | Feb 18 20:10 |
sebsebseb | Windows dominates the desktop | Feb 18 20:10 |
sebsebseb | with OS X in second place | Feb 18 20:10 |
Ender2070_ | great os's appeal to the more intelligent minority | Feb 18 20:11 |
DaemonFC | Warning: Don't go into PC-BSD wanting GNOME. It's available but it's a bad idea to install it. Could break your system. | Feb 18 20:11 |
DaemonFC | that's per the PC-BSD guys | Feb 18 20:11 |
MinceR | lol | Feb 18 20:11 |
Ender2070_ | KDE > Gnome | Feb 18 20:11 |
sebsebseb | Ender2070_: true most computer users are rather ignorant at them, and just use what the companies give them and that's that | Feb 18 20:11 |
MinceR | they ship packages that break the system? | Feb 18 20:11 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, No | Feb 18 20:12 |
MinceR | that's about as sloppy as it gets | Feb 18 20:12 |
DaemonFC | It's in Ports | Feb 18 20:12 |
DaemonFC | but you're strongly advised not to install it | Feb 18 20:12 |
MinceR | so they ship ports that break the system | Feb 18 20:12 |
MinceR | i see | Feb 18 20:12 |
Ender2070_ | so they ship broken ports | Feb 18 20:12 |
MinceR | still just as sloppy as i thought :> | Feb 18 20:12 |
DaemonFC | Ports is not recommended either | Feb 18 20:12 |
Ender2070_ | that would be like recommending against using synaptic | Feb 18 20:12 |
DaemonFC | PBI is the preferred software installation method | Feb 18 20:12 |
FurnaceBoy | speaking of GNOME. Any GNOME experts here? | Feb 18 20:13 |
DaemonFC | OpenBSD discourages using Ports as well | Feb 18 20:13 |
DaemonFC | if that makes you feel better | Feb 18 20:13 |
MinceR | i discourage using BSD :> | Feb 18 20:13 |
sebsebseb | imagine a world where, most computer users weren't so ignorant at them, I expect computing would be awesome | Feb 18 20:13 |
FurnaceBoy | +1 | Feb 18 20:13 |
MinceR | and i'm seeing one more reason for it :> | Feb 18 20:13 |
sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: was that at me? | Feb 18 20:13 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yeah | Feb 18 20:13 |
Ender2070_ | thats probably one of the many reasons why BSD has a minority base among the unix clones | Feb 18 20:13 |
FurnaceBoy | Ender2070_: license makes it cool for embedded tho | Feb 18 20:13 |
DaemonFC | http://faqs.pcbsd.org/index.php?action=artikel&cat=8&id=334&artlang=en | Feb 18 20:13 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Knowledge Base - Can I use Gnome with PC-BSD? .::. Size~: 24.56 KB | Feb 18 20:13 |
FurnaceBoy | Ender2070_: and systems like NetBSD are nice and solid | Feb 18 20:14 |
sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: yep sheep as people say | Feb 18 20:14 |
sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: most people really are sheep, and not just when it comes to computing | Feb 18 20:14 |
Ender2070_ | <sebsebseb> imagine a world where, most computer users weren't so ignorant at them, I expect computing would be awesome | Feb 18 20:14 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: mutton dressed as lamb! | Feb 18 20:14 |
MinceR | nice and solid until you try to install an app that isn't in the default install? :> | Feb 18 20:14 |
Ender2070_ | this was the case not too long ago | Feb 18 20:14 |
sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: mutton? | Feb 18 20:14 |
Ender2070_ | before 1999 | Feb 18 20:14 |
sebsebseb | Ender2070_: why did you copy that in? | Feb 18 20:14 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: mutton - [noun] ('muh tEn) 1. the meat of a mature sheep, as distinguished from lamb. | Feb 18 20:15 |
DaemonFC | GNOME is generally frowned upon in the BSD world | Feb 18 20:15 |
Ender2070_ | to show what I was talking about | Feb 18 20:15 |
sebsebseb | Ender2070_: well most people in the developed world didn't have a computer untill about 1999 yeah | Feb 18 20:15 |
DaemonFC | is what I gather | Feb 18 20:15 |
DaemonFC | probably many reasons for that | Feb 18 20:15 |
sebsebseb | Ender2070_: and they got one with Windows, and so on from there | Feb 18 20:15 |
Ender2070_ | there was a time when everyone I knew who owned a computer could install their own hardware | Feb 18 20:16 |
Ender2070_ | now i only know one person in RL who can | Feb 18 20:16 |
sebsebseb | I guess sometimes when things become mainstreame or try to become mainstreame | Feb 18 20:16 |
FurnaceBoy | Ender2070_: there was a time when they had circuit diagrams and component level repair... :| | Feb 18 20:16 |
sebsebseb | they become bad | Feb 18 20:16 |
sebsebseb | well not sometimes, a lot of the time | Feb 18 20:16 |
sebsebseb | let's take Ubuntu | Feb 18 20:16 |
sebsebseb | it's starting to become bad now, and they are also trying to become more main streame | Feb 18 20:16 |
Ender2070_ | thats the tradeoff | Feb 18 20:16 |
sebsebseb | Ender2070_: as in like, that's the price? | Feb 18 20:17 |
Ender2070_ | if you want to be mainstream you have to cater to the computer illiterate | Feb 18 20:17 |
MinceR | what if someone wanted to use gnome office on pc-bsd? | Feb 18 20:17 |
sebsebseb | yeah when it comes to this | Feb 18 20:17 |
Ender2070_ | apple has made a killing off of people who find two button mice difficult | Feb 18 20:17 |
MinceR | (even on kde) | Feb 18 20:17 |
MinceR | Ender2070_: in other words, on idiots :> | Feb 18 20:18 |
Ender2070_ | yes | Feb 18 20:18 |
sebsebseb | Ender2070_: Apple have made a lot of money, by using opensource/freesoftware | Feb 18 20:18 |
FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: but this is explicitly allowed... | Feb 18 20:18 |
sebsebseb | and making it look better and such | Feb 18 20:18 |
Ender2070_ | yeah | Feb 18 20:18 |
Ender2070_ | i agree with that | Feb 18 20:18 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu does what I want it to do, without a hassle, most of the time | Feb 18 20:18 |
DaemonFC | It's more of an asset than a liability, to me | Feb 18 20:18 |
Ender2070_ | DaemonFC - you're the demographic | Feb 18 20:18 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: Ubuntu is starting to become a distro aimed at computer ignorants even more sow | Feb 18 20:19 |
sebsebseb | which means features that are useless | Feb 18 20:19 |
sebsebseb | for my own personal computer useage | Feb 18 20:19 |
DaemonFC | what? who doesn't want to be pestered by banal crap all the time? | Feb 18 20:19 |
sebsebseb | I don't need/want Facebook and Twitter junk | Feb 18 20:19 |
MinceR | crApple made FLOSS look better? when? | Feb 18 20:19 |
MinceR | i seem to have missed that | Feb 18 20:19 |
sebsebseb | I don't want a music store, I won't buy from there | Feb 18 20:19 |
sebsebseb | I don't want to use Ubuntu One | Feb 18 20:19 |
Ender2070_ | MinceR - indirectly | Feb 18 20:19 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb, You don't have to | Feb 18 20:19 |
DaemonFC | uninstall it if you like | Feb 18 20:19 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: sure, but | Feb 18 20:19 |
Ender2070_ | MinceR - basicly the FLOSS they make look good is hidden in their proprietary code | Feb 18 20:20 |
MinceR | they're badmouthing and attacking FLOSS every chance they get | Feb 18 20:20 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: screw Ubuntu | Feb 18 20:20 |
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sebsebseb | DaemonFC: for my own personal computer useage | Feb 18 20:20 |
MinceR | and they put a useless, inflexible and butt-ugly GUI on top of it | Feb 18 20:20 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: I think Mandriva much better now | Feb 18 20:20 |
sebsebseb | I could easilly disable pulse audio :) | Feb 18 20:20 |
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sebsebseb | in Ubuntu well, good luck with that | Feb 18 20:20 |
MinceR | on Kubuntu, pulseaudio is optional | Feb 18 20:20 |
Ender2070_ | MinceR- i agree, many of us do. apple makes money off people who want that shit. | Feb 18 20:20 |
sebsebseb | think should of been like above | Feb 18 20:20 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb, it's possible | Feb 18 20:20 |
MinceR | and not installed by default | Feb 18 20:20 |
MinceR | just like mono | Feb 18 20:20 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: and the sound applet gets effected and whatever | Feb 18 20:20 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb, Fedora is moving in to cram Pulseaudio down KDE users throats | Feb 18 20:21 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] 86% of Windows 7 PCs Maxing Out Memory: http://bit.ly/9EooeF | Feb 18 20:21 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Slashdot | 86% of Windows 7 PCs Maxing Out Memory .::. Size~: 243 KB | Feb 18 20:21 |
DaemonFC | B-) | Feb 18 20:21 |
Ender2070_ | DaemonFC - pulseaudio is the future | Feb 18 20:21 |
Ender2070_ | no wonder | Feb 18 20:21 |
sebsebseb | MinceR: some people don't like how they don't take Kubuntu that seriously, Cannonical | Feb 18 20:21 |
sebsebseb | MinceR: I guess they also don't reolize a lot of them, that Kubuntu is a community distro, not a Canonical distro | Feb 18 20:21 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, The least capable standard is usually the one that dominates. | Feb 18 20:21 |
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Ender2070_ | not true | Feb 18 20:21 |
Ender2070_ | and pulseaudio only sucks on ubuntu | Feb 18 20:22 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @mparent77772 Pregnant woman jailed for having thought about #abortion http://bit.ly/d1nRRk // holy crap! | Feb 18 20:22 | |
silentivm | pulseaudio caused me nothing but headaches in all distros I used | Feb 18 20:22 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Pregnant woman jailed for having thought about abortion .::. Size~: 30.76 KB | Feb 18 20:22 |
MinceR | sebsebseb: if the rumors are true, things are going to get a lot worse soon :> | Feb 18 20:22 |
Ender2070_ | its missing pulse audio's control panel for one | Feb 18 20:22 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu has gotten lots better with it | Feb 18 20:22 |
Ender2070_ | pulseaudio has an awesome control panel | Feb 18 20:22 |
DaemonFC | I haven't had to kill it savagely in Karmic | Feb 18 20:22 |
sebsebseb | Ender2070_: not true, no sound in my vm's with Virtualbox OSE in Mandriva either, but then I could disable pulseaudio in their graphical control centre, that sorted it :) | Feb 18 20:22 |
sebsebseb | Ender2070_: their as in Mandriva's | Feb 18 20:22 |
silentivm | once, with PA, if I was playing a song and opened another sound, I'd get a burst of noise which was enough to make me jump from the chair | Feb 18 20:22 |
Ender2070_ | people still take Mandriva seriously? | Feb 18 20:22 |
sebsebseb | loads of people have had pulse audio issues, and not just Ubuntu | Feb 18 20:23 |
silentivm | sebsebseb: agreed | Feb 18 20:23 |
sebsebseb | Ender2070_: I had a few little issues with this latest Mandriva, nothing that serious, however I find it much better than Ubuntu 9.10 | Feb 18 20:23 |
sebsebseb | that is Mandriva One | Feb 18 20:23 |
Ender2070_ | if you have pulseaudio issues try fedora, they tend to use the latest versions | Feb 18 20:23 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, Now it gets challenged in the supreme court, which invents more unconstitutional reasons to interfere with state laws | Feb 18 20:23 |
silentivm | Ender2070_: I had issues *with* Fedora | Feb 18 20:23 |
DaemonFC | on constitutional grounds that they conjured up | Feb 18 20:23 |
silentivm | in fact, everything BUT PA worked well on it | Feb 18 20:24 |
Ender2070_ | what sound card | Feb 18 20:24 |
silentivm | Ender2070_: Intel HD audio (built-in on laptop) | Feb 18 20:24 |
Ender2070_ | weird | Feb 18 20:24 |
Ender2070_ | my laptop uses it too and works fine | Feb 18 20:24 |
DaemonFC | of course the flip side of that is that if the supreme court hadn't invoked non-existent constitutional passages, I could still be thrown in jail in 26 states | Feb 18 20:25 |
DaemonFC | yay supreme court! | Feb 18 20:25 |
silentivm | fortunately, my Arch Linux is PA-free | Feb 18 20:25 |
silentivm | :D | Feb 18 20:25 |
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DaemonFC | you get states like Iowa writing laws that conflict with Federal laws and court rulings just to challenge them | Feb 18 20:25 |
DaemonFC | They figure that if they let some judges die and be replaced, that they can try fucking with people again | Feb 18 20:26 |
DaemonFC | and go before a new set of judges | Feb 18 20:26 |
Ender2070_ | might be PA-free but you are missing some of its advantages, such as having different sound playing from a usb headset than what comes from your speakers | Feb 18 20:26 |
sebsebseb | where's schestowitz ? | Feb 18 20:26 |
silentivm | Ender2070_: I don't see why I would need that | Feb 18 20:27 |
silentivm | as I use headphones 100% of the time | Feb 18 20:27 |
Ender2070_ | yeah well some people might | Feb 18 20:27 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, Here's what I say to those pricks. http://gadsdenflag.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/gadsden1.png | Feb 18 20:27 |
Ender2070_ | not having pulseaudio increases the difficulty of this task significantly | Feb 18 20:27 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Feb 18 20:27 |
DaemonFC | :D | Feb 18 20:27 |
MinceR | PA would be nice if it worked reliably and smoothly even with high loads (maybe it does already) | Feb 18 20:27 |
Ender2070_ | its in my opinion that PA is just going to improve to the point where people will stop bitching | Feb 18 20:28 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: that's an unrealistic pose for a snake :> | Feb 18 20:28 |
MinceR | i hope it will | Feb 18 20:28 |
Ender2070_ | eventually everyone will have it working as well as I do | Feb 18 20:28 |
MinceR | i wouldn't mind some more flexibility in it though | Feb 18 20:28 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_flag | Feb 18 20:28 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Gadsden flag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 36.43 KB | Feb 18 20:28 |
MinceR | like being able to use it beside dmix, not instead of it | Feb 18 20:28 |
MinceR | for example when i only need it to push sound over the network | Feb 18 20:28 |
DaemonFC | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Joinordie.jpg | Feb 18 20:29 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Feb 18 20:29 |
Ender2070_ | im sure its not impossible | Feb 18 20:29 |
DaemonFC | :) | Feb 18 20:29 |
MinceR | maybe a PA guru can make it work, but i'm no PA guru | Feb 18 20:29 |
Ender2070_ | its new and will see improvement, its a good sign that redhat is paying to have it worked on | Feb 18 20:29 |
MinceR | i couldn't even find out how it hooks itself into ALSA | Feb 18 20:29 |
Ender2070_ | remember how bad ALSA was when 2.6 was out | Feb 18 20:30 |
MinceR | so i had to remove the packages to make it stop | Feb 18 20:30 |
MinceR | i don't remember ALSA being bad, ever | Feb 18 20:30 |
silentivm | MinceR: I did the same | Feb 18 20:30 |
silentivm | never had problems with ALSA | Feb 18 20:30 |
Ender2070_ | no because it worked for both of you | Feb 18 20:30 |
MinceR | but i was stuck with pseudo-OSS on my AWE32 machine | Feb 18 20:30 |
Ender2070_ | there were people who had issues | Feb 18 20:30 |
MinceR | i didn't dare switch gentoo over to ALSA there | Feb 18 20:30 |
Ender2070_ | just like PA issues | Feb 18 20:30 |
FurnaceBoy | Ender2070_: I agree, it will continue to be improved; it's silly for ppl to kvetch about a state of immaturity; everything evolves | Feb 18 20:30 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, http://www.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=4481951 | Feb 18 20:30 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Gadsden Flag "DONT TREAD ON ME" NEW T-shirt .::. Size~: 24.36 KB | Feb 18 20:30 |
DaemonFC | there you go | Feb 18 20:31 |
DaemonFC | buy one, hell....buy two | Feb 18 20:31 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Bought ingredients to make home made pizza with the kids at the weekend. | Feb 18 20:32 | |
DaemonFC | http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/gdhs_2090_28674875 | Feb 18 20:32 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Feb 18 20:32 |
DaemonFC | I like that | Feb 18 20:32 |
MinceR | that's greek, isn't it? :> | Feb 18 20:34 |
MinceR | Leonidas, iirc | Feb 18 20:34 |
schestowitz | Weird.... why do AstroTufers (PR) of Windows cr*p mailing me without any consent just to promote their junk? | Feb 18 20:42 |
schestowitz | > Hi Roy, | Feb 18 20:42 |
schestowitz | > | Feb 18 20:42 |
schestowitz | > Just wanted to make sure you saw this new Windows video editing solution | Feb 18 20:42 |
schestowitz | > software launched by Smith Micro today. Reveal can be used to transform | Feb 18 20:42 |
schestowitz | > home videos into professional-looking movies in three simple steps: | Feb 18 20:42 |
schestowitz | > select content, add music and choose an overall style for the movie | Feb 18 20:42 |
schestowitz | > piece. Reveal does the rest by compiling all of the information into one | Feb 18 20:42 |
schestowitz | > multimedia montage that is completely personalized from start to finish. | Feb 18 20:42 |
schestowitz | > | Feb 18 20:42 |
schestowitz | > Would you like to review a copy of the software? Please let me know if I | Feb 18 20:42 |
schestowitz | > can forward a unit for review or help with any questions. | Feb 18 20:42 |
schestowitz | [...] | Feb 18 20:42 |
schestowitz | I'm receiving such junk sometimes repeatedly, usually from some PR proxies of those incognitos | Feb 18 20:42 |
Diablo-D3 | holy shit, smith micro is still around? | Feb 18 20:43 |
MinceR | to annoy you or to waste your time | Feb 18 20:45 |
schestowitz | I've just had this chat with a friend about the cheapening of life in foreign countries | Feb 18 20:47 |
schestowitz | Doesn't the Haiti eathquake equate to 100 9/11s now? | Feb 18 20:47 |
schestowitz | almost 300k... the death toll? | Feb 18 20:47 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NewsTechnica: Daily Mail causes, cures cancer http://newstechnica.com/?p=1505 | Feb 18 20:50 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Daily Mail causes, cures cancer | NewsTechnica .::. Size~: 37.3 KB | Feb 18 20:50 |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: it's just a little bigger than Bhopal, India | Feb 18 20:51 |
*DaemonFC starts to build a kernel | Feb 18 20:52 | |
*DaemonFC is bored | Feb 18 20:52 | |
schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: maybe we should start a war on natural disasters and illensses | Feb 18 20:52 |
schestowitz | Then some wars on car accidents | Feb 18 20:52 |
schestowitz | Elevate this war to "code red" | Feb 18 20:53 |
schestowitz | We could even united all of human kind to find these wars.... and no aliens involved :-) | Feb 18 20:53 |
schestowitz | I'll just tweet for a bit..... | Feb 18 20:54 |
DaemonFC | I shall build 2.6.33-rc8-git3 | Feb 18 20:55 |
DaemonFC | if it builds :) | Feb 18 20:55 |
DaemonFC | see what this Phenom II X4 is made of *grin* | Feb 18 20:55 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Opinion: #GNU #Linux Has Buzz http://www.buntfu.com/news,page,83,topic_id,content_pages | Feb 18 20:56 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Buntfu.com - Buy & Sell Linux PC Computer Systems - Linux has reached the Apple buzz of 1976 and Microsoft knows it. .::. Size~: 42.07 KB | Feb 18 20:56 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Journal Has Penguin Photo Contest, New Linux Outlaws Episode http://ur1.ca/mp9i http://ur1.ca/mlrm | Feb 18 20:57 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Penguin Photo Contest | Linux Journal .::. Size~: 39.51 KB | Feb 18 20:57 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Linux Outlaws 136 - Make Love, Not Proprietary Software | Linux Outlaws .::. Size~: 18.31 KB | Feb 18 20:57 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Many Linux/FOSS Events Coming http://ur1.ca/mp9o http://ur1.ca/mp9p http://ur1.ca/mp9q http://ur1.ca/mp9r | Feb 18 20:59 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: SCALE 8x in Los Angeles This Weekend | tuxmachines.org .::. Size~: 28.25 KB | Feb 18 20:59 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Call for proposals - Open World Forum wiki .::. Size~: 14.09 KB | Feb 18 20:59 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Shuttleworth, Rodriguez Keynote at PyCon 2010 | tuxmachines.org .::. Size~: 32.21 KB | Feb 18 20:59 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: A FOSS lover's look at ViBGYOR 2010 | ViBGYOR International Short & Documentary Festival 2010 .::. Size~: 9.46 KB | Feb 18 20:59 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] LinuxSearch.org Web #Search is Launched http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2010/02/introducing-linuxsearchorg.html http://linuxsearch.org/ | Feb 18 21:00 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: From the Canyon Edge - :-Dustin Kirkland: Introducing LinuxSearch.org! .::. Size~: 70.83 KB | Feb 18 21:00 |
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux Graphics Stack Gets Better #AMD Catalyst Driver http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Nzk5MQ | Feb 18 21:01 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: [Phoronix] AMD Catalyst 10.2 For Linux Gets Direct2D .::. Size~: 17.38 KB | Feb 18 21:01 |
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Impressions and Raves About #KDE SC 4.4 http://ur1.ca/mpa4 http://ur1.ca/mpa5 http://ur1.ca/mpa4 | Feb 18 21:04 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: KDE 4.4 Mail Misunderstanding Explained & Akregator Surprize | tuxmachines.org .::. Size~: 34.11 KB | Feb 18 21:04 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Personalizing KDE 4.4 .::. Size~: 30.63 KB | Feb 18 21:04 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: KDE 4.4 Mail Misunderstanding Explained & Akregator Surprize | tuxmachines.org .::. Size~: 34.11 KB | Feb 18 21:04 |
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNOME / #Metacity Getting a Touch of Polish http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/02/elementary-theme-getting-new-metacity.html | Feb 18 21:05 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Elementary Theme Getting New Metacity | OMG! Ubuntu! .::. Size~: 102.86 KB | Feb 18 21:05 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Extensive Review of SAM #GNU #Linux http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/sam-linux.html | Feb 18 21:06 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: SAM Linux - In the twilight zone .::. Size~: 20.43 KB | Feb 18 21:06 |
DaemonFC | Linux really is ballooning | Feb 18 21:08 |
DaemonFC | The source has gone from about 49 MB the last time I downloaded it to 61 MB today | Feb 18 21:08 |
DaemonFC | not that ballooning is necessarily bad | Feb 18 21:09 |
DaemonFC | depends on the features you get for the added weight | Feb 18 21:09 |
*DaemonFC wonders if it's anything he cares about other than bug fixes and better drivers | Feb 18 21:09 | |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you can experiment with a COW filesystem now that NILFS2 is in mainline | Feb 18 21:11 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: has snapshots, checksums, etc | Feb 18 21:11 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: not equivalent to ZFS, but related | Feb 18 21:11 |
DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy, But I know and love XFS :D | Feb 18 21:11 |
FurnaceBoy | I mean for learning purposes | Feb 18 21:12 |
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FurnaceBoy | not to replace XFS | Feb 18 21:12 |
DaemonFC | well, I know it anyway and I love it more than Ext4 | Feb 18 21:12 |
*sebsebseb has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Feb 18 21:12 | |
DaemonFC | so when will distributions start letting you format your partitions as nilfs? | Feb 18 21:13 |
DaemonFC | I mean like, during setup | Feb 18 21:13 |
DaemonFC | and will GRUB choke? | Feb 18 21:13 |
DaemonFC | if it's on /boot I mean | Feb 18 21:13 |
DaemonFC | GRUB Legacy was a real beast about things like that | Feb 18 21:13 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: personally I'd be inclined to try NILFS2 for database applications, not as a replacement system fs | Feb 18 21:14 |
DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy, XFS has been in the kernel since 2001 and until Grub2 came about last year, there was no way to reliably make /boot XFS | Feb 18 21:14 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: it's just nice that it's in mainline, with these COW-based features | Feb 18 21:14 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: ouch | Feb 18 21:15 |
DaemonFC | there was a patch that Mandriva had been using to allow XFS on /boot with GRUB Legacy, but it was a hack | Feb 18 21:15 |
DaemonFC | and if GRUB started chowing down on your file system, don't come whining | Feb 18 21:15 |
DaemonFC | it was kind of like that | Feb 18 21:15 |
DaemonFC | still is on Mandriva cause they're still using GRUB Legacy with that patch | Feb 18 21:16 |
DaemonFC | same patch that lets it not freak out when it sees Ext4 actually | Feb 18 21:16 |
DaemonFC | Eric Sandeen was the one telling me how he hated the old GRUB | Feb 18 21:18 |
DaemonFC | and how he'd never trust it with anything but Ext2/3 | Feb 18 21:19 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Chromatic on #SDL #Perl , New Board for #Eclipse http://ur1.ca/mpcl http://ur1.ca/mpcm | Feb 18 21:27 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Why SDL Perl Matters - Modern Perl Books, a Modern Perl Blog .::. Size~: 17.99 KB | Feb 18 21:27 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: 2010 Board Candidate: .::. Size~: 6.91 KB | Feb 18 21:27 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat #GNU #Linux is Fantastic, Clones Too http://ur1.ca/mpcw http://ur1.ca/mpcx #centos | Feb 18 21:29 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: PCLinuxOS - the Big Daddy of all Desktop Linux Distributions: Is RHEL5 the New XP of Linux World? .::. Size~: 114.16 KB | Feb 18 21:29 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: CentOS, I had to try it « Distrocheck .::. Size~: 32.33 KB | Feb 18 21:29 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #SimplyMepis Linux 8.0.15 in #Review http://www.bargincomputing.com/2010/02/simplymepis-linux-8-0-15-review/ #debian #mepis | Feb 18 21:30 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: SimplyMepis Linux 8.0.15 Review Low Cost Computing .::. Size~: 23.43 KB | Feb 18 21:30 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Wins and Additions to #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux http://ur1.ca/mn0z http://ur1.ca/mpd4 http://ur1.ca/mpd5 http://ur1.ca/mpd6 | Feb 18 21:31 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Lucid Software Centre Adds 'Featured' Gallery, PPA View | OMG! Ubuntu! .::. Size~: 104.4 KB | Feb 18 21:31 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Ubuntu: Canonical's Partner Program Scores 2 Wins | The VAR Guy .::. Size~: 50.77 KB | Feb 18 21:31 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: OpenShot Video Editor: OpenShot Now Included in Ubuntu 10.04! .::. Size~: 109.2 KB | Feb 18 21:31 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Prey for Ubuntu « The Jungle Online .::. Size~: 18.96 KB | Feb 18 21:31 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #Review of the Linux-powered Patriot Box Office #PVP http://ur1.ca/mpdg new Boxee: http://ur1.ca/mpdh | Feb 18 21:33 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Raiden's Realm: Review: Patriot Box Office PVP .::. Size~: 44 KB | Feb 18 21:33 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Boxee Beta Updates with Over 500 Squashed Bugs - Boxee - Lifehacker .::. Size~: 63.05 KB | Feb 18 21:33 |
*yuhong (~chatzilla@pool-96-253-143-208.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Feb 18 21:33 | |
yuhong | http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1555118&cid=31191262 | Feb 18 21:34 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Slashdot Comments | Two Scoops of Buzz .::. Size~: 37.2 KB | Feb 18 21:34 |
yuhong | Just posted this slashdot comment. | Feb 18 21:34 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubisoft Calls Quits the Industry with #DRM Senility http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=235290&site=pcg #idiots #badgames | Feb 18 21:36 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: PC Gamer Blog: Constant net connection required to play Assassin's Creed 2 on PC - PC Gamer Magazine .::. Size~: 216.58 KB | Feb 18 21:36 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FSF / #GNU / #SFLC in New Audiocast from Former #Novell Manager http://www.networkworld.com/podcasts/openmic/2010/021710openmic-kuhn.html | Feb 18 21:38 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Conversation with a free software radical .::. Size~: 62.11 KB | Feb 18 21:38 |
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FurnaceBoy | http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/18/opinion/main6219596.shtml | Feb 18 21:39 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: America’s Global Weapons Monopoly - CBS News .::. Size~: 55.47 KB | Feb 18 21:39 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux Targets Mobile Computing More Than before http://ur1.ca/mjw7 http://ur1.ca/mmy7 | Feb 18 21:40 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Ubuntu Hardy Heron 8.04 gets ported onto Sony Ericsson's Xperia X1 -- Engadget .::. Size~: 105.27 KB | Feb 18 21:40 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: .::. Size~: 5.44 KB | Feb 18 21:40 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware and #Linux Increasingly Emerge as #Mobile Victors, Convergence Seen http://ur1.ca/mpe6 | Feb 18 21:42 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: 451 CAOS Theory » Open source growing footprint in embedded market .::. Size~: 43.75 KB | Feb 18 21:42 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #ACTA Leaks, #USTR Targeted by #FSF http://ur1.ca/mpeh http://ur1.ca/mpei | Feb 18 21:43 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: FSF submits comment in USTR Special 301 Review - Free Software Foundation .::. Size~: 28 KB | Feb 18 21:43 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, I may just switch over to SELinux | Feb 18 21:44 |
DaemonFC | beats trying to patch every kernel I make with AppArmor | Feb 18 21:44 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Former Boss of #MySQL (Marten Mickos) Speaks About Business with #FreeSoftware http://ur1.ca/mpeo | Feb 18 21:46 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: CEO Interview: Marten Mickos on how Open Source businesses can break through the $10-15 million plateau « Olliance Group: Open Means Business .::. Size~: 37.22 KB | Feb 18 21:46 |
DaemonFC | I'd like to get an answer from Ubuntu why they continue to flog the dead horse that is AppArmor | Feb 18 21:46 |
DaemonFC | development on AppArmor stopped in 2008 | Feb 18 21:46 |
DaemonFC | They have an unfinished beta just sitting there that dates back to the middle of 2008 | Feb 18 21:46 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Palin's insidious, hypocritical elitism dissected http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/18/opinion/main6219664.shtml?tag=latest #gop | Feb 18 21:47 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Sarah Palin: Closet Elitist? - CBS News .::. Size~: 73.5 KB | Feb 18 21:47 |
DaemonFC | Why are they relying on a security framework that's not that great and has been abandoned? | Feb 18 21:47 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Android and #Linux at #FOSDEM - Videos http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/Video-Android-and-Linux-Kernel | Feb 18 21:48 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Video: Android and Linux Kernel - Linux Magazine Online .::. Size~: 31.36 KB | Feb 18 21:48 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware in Education Advocated, Defended http://ur1.ca/mpf7 http://ur1.ca/mliz http://ur1.ca/mpf8 | Feb 18 21:50 | |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Hitler makes a YouTube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CyzgOupqLg | Feb 18 21:50 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Damned Lies and Statistics, FOSS Sexism and Education - Linux Magazine Online .::. Size~: 32.09 KB | Feb 18 21:50 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Computer Science Education Benefits from FLOSS - Bradley M. Kuhn ( Brad ) ( bkuhn ) .::. Size~: 27.47 KB | Feb 18 21:50 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Open source is a restaurant where everyone is a chef | Open Source | ZDNet.com .::. Size~: 98.36 KB | Feb 18 21:50 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- Hitler Makes a YouTube Video .::. Size~: 118.28 KB | Feb 18 21:50 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @saintpaul007 Feb10, British High Court ruled MI5 officers were involved in ill-treatment of Binyam Mohamed http://bit.ly/dwRG6Z #uk #cia | Feb 18 21:51 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: The Roots of the CIA's Rendition and Black Sites Program | World News |Axisoflogic.com .::. Size~: 50.11 KB | Feb 18 21:51 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mozilla Spreads in China, http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/felten/mozilla-debates-whether-trust-chinese-ca | Feb 18 21:52 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Mozilla Debates Whether to Trust Chinese CA | Freedom to Tinker .::. Size~: 82.88 KB | Feb 18 21:52 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] General Manager of the 'Trust'worthy Computing Group at #Microsoft Quits the Company! http://ur1.ca/mpfj more later... | Feb 18 21:54 | |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_the_mad_hatter] One word: HUGS! http://disq.us/ca6pf | Feb 18 21:54 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsoft security guru jumps to Amazon in latest defection .::. Size~: 55.4 KB | Feb 18 21:54 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 302 FOUND .::. Size~: 0 KB | Feb 18 21:54 |
schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: what's the obsession with palin? | Feb 18 21:54 |
schestowitz | She won't be elected. End of story. Move on, people :-) | Feb 18 21:54 |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: there's more to it than that | Feb 18 21:54 |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: the is the latest state-of-the-art in politics of division -- a manipulation tactic | Feb 18 21:55 |
FurnaceBoy | we have to keep an eye on that and its manifestations | Feb 18 21:55 |
FurnaceBoy | she is* | Feb 18 21:55 |
FurnaceBoy | she's like the Big Lie 2.0 | Feb 18 21:56 |
schestowitz | http://identi.ca/notice/22436895 | Feb 18 21:56 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Jan Wildeboer (jwildeboer) 's status on Thursday, 18-Feb-10 21:41:58 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 8.2 KB | Feb 18 21:56 |
schestowitz | "@schestowitz MySQL != Free Software due to dual licensing. Mickos has cashed in on stock options, community is dead. Congrats." | Feb 18 21:56 |
DaemonFC | http://forum.zomgstuff.net/showthread.php?p=209043#post209043 | Feb 18 21:56 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Fox News Hits an All Time Low - Page 2 - ZomgStuff Forum .::. Size~: 57.42 KB | Feb 18 21:56 |
FurnaceBoy | well... | Feb 18 21:56 |
FurnaceBoy | Mickos never really claimed to support free software. | Feb 18 21:57 |
schestowitz | I know | Feb 18 21:57 |
FurnaceBoy | He has a blog post saying that he was hired to do a job, and he did it, and is out. | Feb 18 21:57 |
schestowitz | I corresponded with him a few time | Feb 18 21:57 |
schestowitz | he's more like Asay | Feb 18 21:57 |
FurnaceBoy | yes | Feb 18 21:57 |
FurnaceBoy | he's business | Feb 18 21:57 |
schestowitz | How to make money while using some labels | Feb 18 21:57 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, I think you would like that :) | Feb 18 21:58 |
FurnaceBoy | seems like a decent person, though | Feb 18 21:58 |
schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: re Palin I spoke about it a few hours | Feb 18 21:58 |
schestowitz | [not on the Net] | Feb 18 21:58 |
FurnaceBoy | she's just a tool of other people | Feb 18 21:58 |
schestowitz | Why is it that people typically ask questions like, "would you do her?" or "how old is she?" | Feb 18 21:58 |
FurnaceBoy | but, the chutzpah of the tactic is incredible | Feb 18 21:58 |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: apparently some Americans find her attractive--- ridiculous but true | Feb 18 21:58 |
FurnaceBoy | she's utterly repellent | Feb 18 21:58 |
FurnaceBoy | in body and mind | Feb 18 21:58 |
schestowitz | In reply I said she's just an attractive version of stupid politcians who doesn't speak well and appeals to some people | Feb 18 21:59 |
schestowitz | I don't think she's dumber than Bush | Feb 18 21:59 |
FurnaceBoy | she's the perfect tool to divide | Feb 18 21:59 |
schestowitz | But Bush doesn't jot on his hands | Feb 18 21:59 |
FurnaceBoy | neither of them have any useful role in public life. | Feb 18 21:59 |
FurnaceBoy | *honest* public life. | Feb 18 21:59 |
FurnaceBoy | but they make perfect puppets | Feb 18 21:59 |
FurnaceBoy | no brain. | Feb 18 21:59 |
FurnaceBoy | insert hand: you have powerful sock puppet of division | Feb 18 21:59 |
schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: yes, I find her quite atractive too | Feb 18 22:00 |
FurnaceBoy | ugh, I don't. | Feb 18 22:00 |
schestowitz | _Goblin seems to like her a lot | Feb 18 22:00 |
schestowitz | She's not my age group | Feb 18 22:00 |
FurnaceBoy | but then, I have high standards | Feb 18 22:00 |
schestowitz | I've dated some girls who look much better | Feb 18 22:00 |
FurnaceBoy | i find her paintpeelingly hideous, the ideology is just the chaser | Feb 18 22:00 |
schestowitz | I guess Palin's stupidity is sometimes a little cute | Feb 18 22:00 |
schestowitz | "Hey, honey, what paper do you read?" | Feb 18 22:01 |
schestowitz | Her: "all of them!!!" | Feb 18 22:01 |
FurnaceBoy | she continues the American tradition of elevating worthless and destructive people to wealth and celebrity | Feb 18 22:01 |
FurnaceBoy | i'm sure she's pallin' around with Gates | Feb 18 22:01 |
schestowitz | I bet she reads Glamor and some tabloids | Feb 18 22:01 |
FurnaceBoy | probably keeps company w/ Arianna | Feb 18 22:01 |
schestowitz | They might sometimes have some political columns | Feb 18 22:01 |
schestowitz | Like... | Feb 18 22:01 |
schestowitz | "How to use your thighs to entice lobbyists" :-) | Feb 18 22:02 |
FurnaceBoy | anyway it continues the under-exposed tactic of putting women as mouthpieces for revolting ideas. Dana Perino, etc, etc | Feb 18 22:02 |
schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: Arianna was in that Alek BBC docu | Feb 18 22:02 |
schestowitz | That's propaganda for Gates docu' | Feb 18 22:02 |
FurnaceBoy | oh, yeah, Melinda Gates. | Feb 18 22:02 |
schestowitz | She was in it | Feb 18 22:02 |
schestowitz | Rather underwhelming] | Feb 18 22:02 |
FurnaceBoy | spokeswoman to make a revolting ideology and programme seem humanised | Feb 18 22:03 |
schestowitz | I was surprised... her English was weak too | Feb 18 22:03 |
FurnaceBoy | actually Arianna being Greek was probably stunning when she was a bit younger. certainly no less attractive than Palin. ;-) | Feb 18 22:03 |
schestowitz | I don't know about Melinda | Feb 18 22:03 |
schestowitz | She's just showing her face sometimes | Feb 18 22:03 |
schestowitz | She's in WashPost board | Feb 18 22:03 |
FurnaceBoy | well, we know Melinda is the softer, gentler face of the Foundation -- Davos panels | Feb 18 22:03 |
schestowitz | I don't even know the names of the Gates children | Feb 18 22:03 |
schestowitz | Nor do I care.. | Feb 18 22:03 |
FurnaceBoy | Gates is damaged goods, to some people | Feb 18 22:04 |
schestowitz | They don't destory the world yet, unlike Gates Sr. | Feb 18 22:04 |
schestowitz | He sets a lot of this up | Feb 18 22:04 |
FurnaceBoy | easy, just have Melinda do the talking -- more misdirection from the agenda | Feb 18 22:04 |
DaemonFC | "Ubuntu (also known as Windows Linux Edition)" | Feb 18 22:04 |
DaemonFC | heh | Feb 18 22:04 |
schestowitz | He has THOIUSANDS of solicitaors in the US | Feb 18 22:04 |
schestowitz | Has had them for decades clearing hurdles for his son | Feb 18 22:04 |
*DaemonFC wonders if he wrote that part, it's been a while since he rewrote the Ubuntu article | Feb 18 22:04 | |
schestowitz | He took money from SCO some years aog | Feb 18 22:04 |
schestowitz | *Ago | Feb 18 22:04 |
schestowitz | Did you know that? | Feb 18 22:04 |
schestowitz | Like some kind of legal proxy for Bill the Deal | Feb 18 22:04 |
schestowitz | [22:04] <FurnaceBoy> easy, just have Melinda do the talking -- more misdirection from the agenda | Feb 18 22:05 |
schestowitz | also harder to criticise | Feb 18 22:05 |
FurnaceBoy | yes. | Feb 18 22:05 |
schestowitz | Like the female PR rep | Feb 18 22:05 |
FurnaceBoy | Dana Perino | Feb 18 22:05 |
schestowitz | Distance form culprit | Feb 18 22:05 |
schestowitz | use sexism as shield | Feb 18 22:05 |
FurnaceBoy | yes | Feb 18 22:05 |
FurnaceBoy | this is an under-exposed tactic | Feb 18 22:05 |
schestowitz | You can never see Ballmer and Pearly adsked hard question | Feb 18 22:05 |
schestowitz | W-E and others preselect interviewerrs | Feb 18 22:06 |
schestowitz | They build dossiers on them | Feb 18 22:06 |
schestowitz | And they make sure Bill and Stsve know the question and prepare an answer in advance | Feb 18 22:06 |
schestowitz | I have some Comes memos that show this | Feb 18 22:06 |
schestowitz | They have "Communication" execs at MSFT managing this | Feb 18 22:06 |
FurnaceBoy | Comes is a goldmine | Feb 18 22:06 |
schestowitz | Used to be some Cohen guy | Feb 18 22:06 |
schestowitz | Can't recall who it was that recently replaced him | Feb 18 22:06 |
schestowitz | I think it was some PR scum form W-E | Feb 18 22:07 |
schestowitz | He quit within months | Feb 18 22:07 |
schestowitz | Went to some car company in Japan IIRC | Feb 18 22:07 |
schestowitz | "@jwildeboer re "CentOS is a derivative, not a clone. They have patches that RHT doesn't have." > weird. people call it "Clone"" | Feb 18 22:07 |
schestowitz | You'll enjoy that memo | Feb 18 22:07 |
schestowitz | Let me find it | Feb 18 22:07 |
schestowitz | Took me a long time to do the text by hand | Feb 18 22:08 |
schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/12/larry-cohen-jumps-ship/ | Feb 18 22:08 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsofts Vice President of Spin Quits the Company | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 97.9 KB | Feb 18 22:08 |
schestowitz | Here he is quiting | Feb 18 22:09 |
schestowitz | This is who replaced him: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/07/28/waggener-edstrom-comes-to-ms/ | Feb 18 22:09 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Brainwash Firm Waggener Edstrom and Microsoft Share More Staff (Updated) | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 96.52 KB | Feb 18 22:09 |
schestowitz | I call him "Mr. "talking points" Cohen" http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/12/larry-cohen-jumps-ship/ | Feb 18 22:09 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsofts Vice President of Spin Quits the Company | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 97.97 KB | Feb 18 22:09 |
schestowitz | COmes here: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/26/microsoft-talking-point-memos/ | Feb 18 22:10 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsofts “Talking Point” Memo and the Anti-GNU/Linux Studies | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 121.83 KB | Feb 18 22:10 |
schestowitz | "@schestowitz Good Collection of Linux Tutorials, glad you continue to include links like this, very useful for people like me." | Feb 18 22:12 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @satipera I used to omit them thinking they were the most redundant | Feb 18 22:13 | |
DaemonFC | they're still making token patches to CFQ to make desktop users think they care. How thoughtful. | Feb 18 22:15 |
*sebsebseb_ has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) | Feb 18 22:17 | |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: why not do it simple? | Feb 18 22:25 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ODF Alliance Newsletter: February 2009 http://boycottnovell.com/2010/02/18/odf-newsletter-february-2009/ | Feb 18 22:26 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: ODF Alliance Newsletter: February 2009 | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 107.34 KB | Feb 18 22:26 |
schestowitz | "@schestowitz or scientific linux. Or whitebox. But at least we have derivatives. Unlike SuSE ..." | Feb 18 22:26 |
schestowitz | "@schestowitz People are wrong ;-) CentOS is not 100% identical. Ask CentOS. They will agree. Same with Oracle unfuckable Linux." | Feb 18 22:26 |
DaemonFC | I may try bfs | Feb 18 22:29 |
DaemonFC | looks like it can give the system a non-trivial kick | Feb 18 22:30 |
FurnaceBoy | http://www.alternet.org/rights/145719/cheney_confesses_to_serious_crimes_--_torture_is_just_the_beginning_ | Feb 18 22:36 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Cheney Confesses to Serious Crimes -- Torture Is Just the Beginning | Civil Liberties | AlterNet .::. Size~: 104.87 KB | Feb 18 22:36 |
FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: this about sums it up. http://twitter.com/Shoq/status/9304123639 | Feb 18 22:42 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Twitter / Shoq Value: I cannot believe these ign ... .::. Size~: 9.86 KB | Feb 18 22:42 |
*FurnaceBoy puts the twitter down and steps back from the keyboard | Feb 18 22:43 | |
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[serk01/@serk01] considering attending this year's !oggCamp... | Feb 18 22:47 | |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] A Journalist's Guide to Firearms Identification http://flemco.livejournal.com/3262939.html | Feb 18 22:49 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Adult Content Notice .::. Size~: 13.81 KB | Feb 18 22:49 |
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[serk01/@serk01] Not impressed by Caprica until now... Bring on the frakking Cylons! | Feb 18 22:52 | |
Ender2070_ | <DaemonFC> Ender2070_, I may just switch over to SELinux | Feb 18 22:53 |
Ender2070_ | i have no serious SELinux issues, it has a few things you need to be aware of | Feb 18 22:54 |
Ender2070_ | there was one command I had to run to let it install the nvidia drivers | Feb 18 22:54 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, I patched the kernel with bfs | Feb 18 22:54 |
Ender2070_ | LOL | Feb 18 22:55 |
DaemonFC | but there's no option in the kernel config menus to select it | Feb 18 22:55 |
Ender2070_ | are you sure | Feb 18 22:55 |
DaemonFC | yes | Feb 18 22:55 |
Ender2070_ | check the scheduler options | Feb 18 22:55 |
DaemonFC | under choose default I/O scheduler it gives me deadline, cfs, no-op | Feb 18 22:55 |
Ender2070_ | hmm | Feb 18 22:56 |
Ender2070_ | i wish i tried bfs myself | Feb 18 22:56 |
DaemonFC | oh, it has an option at the top of general setup | Feb 18 22:56 |
Ender2070_ | im sure its easy to do | Feb 18 22:56 |
DaemonFC | so what should I do about the schedulers? | Feb 18 22:56 |
Ender2070_ | check the readme, im pretty sure they get disabled | Feb 18 22:56 |
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schestowitz | "@jwildeboer SLE* makes its code hardly accessible" | Feb 18 23:00 |
DaemonFC | "It's designed so that you just patch it in and use it. You shouldn't need to do anything at all." | Feb 18 23:01 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, I guess that means leave the I/O scheduler options alone? | Feb 18 23:02 |
DaemonFC | I guess it "preempts them" :) | Feb 18 23:03 |
DaemonFC | ok, it's building | Feb 18 23:05 |
DaemonFC | hz=1000, full preemption, RCU preemption, Tickless off, Brain Fuck Scheduler patched in, optimized for AMD, XFS driver built into the kernel image | Feb 18 23:06 |
DaemonFC | *grin* | Feb 18 23:06 |
DaemonFC | oh, and I made modules out of Ext2/3/4, I never use them, but they're loaded should I have to | Feb 18 23:07 |
DaemonFC | :) | Feb 18 23:07 |
Ender2070_ | what distro are you running | Feb 18 23:07 |
DaemonFC | I must say that all that work on XFS in the last year has *really* made deleting thousands of small files much less painful | Feb 18 23:07 |
DaemonFC | that was really the only weak spot | Feb 18 23:08 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Here Come Many More #Microsoft #Windows Attacks http://ur1.ca/mpo8 A lot of security headaches caused to lot of people | Feb 18 23:08 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Here Come Many More Microsoft Windows Attacks | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 92.06 KB | Feb 18 23:08 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, Ubuntu 9.10 | Feb 18 23:08 |
Ender2070_ | <DaemonFC> that was really the only weak spot | Feb 18 23:08 |
Ender2070_ | and power outages | Feb 18 23:08 |
DaemonFC | well, I meant performance-wise | Feb 18 23:08 |
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DaemonFC | XFS has been really fast on everything but small file deletes | Feb 18 23:08 |
DaemonFC | where it was painful | Feb 18 23:08 |
DaemonFC | now it's meh | Feb 18 23:08 |
Ender2070_ | the worst is when you lose data after a power failure | Feb 18 23:08 |
DaemonFC | that's not a guarantee | Feb 18 23:09 |
Ender2070_ | did they fix that? | Feb 18 23:09 |
DaemonFC | I've lost power using XFS a few times and never lost anything | Feb 18 23:09 |
DaemonFC | yeah, it's as fixed as it's going to be | Feb 18 23:09 |
DaemonFC | It's probably at least as reliable as Ext4 *shrug* | Feb 18 23:09 |
MinceR | or you didn't yet realize that you've lost data :> | Feb 18 23:09 |
DaemonFC | system booted and worked fine | Feb 18 23:09 |
MinceR | do they have ordered writes for XFS already? | Feb 18 23:10 |
DaemonFC | all my files were there | Feb 18 23:10 |
Ender2070_ | i know XFS is aimed more towards working on large files | Feb 18 23:10 |
MinceR | or full journaling? | Feb 18 23:10 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, ordered has been the default for a while now | Feb 18 23:10 |
DaemonFC | since at least 2007 I think | Feb 18 23:10 |
MinceR | when XFS kills your data, the file is still there, but it's all zeroed | Feb 18 23:10 |
MinceR | ic | Feb 18 23:10 |
Ender2070_ | I had always thought people use XFS for temporary use | Feb 18 23:10 |
DaemonFC | Writeback = playing dice | Feb 18 23:10 |
MinceR | afaik ordered writes protect data just as well as full journaling | Feb 18 23:10 |
Ender2070_ | speed while working on a large file | Feb 18 23:11 |
Ender2070_ | such as video | Feb 18 23:11 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, Not as well, but full journal on Ext3/Ext4 might be considered "paranoid" | Feb 18 23:11 |
DaemonFC | especially with the performance loss it brings | Feb 18 23:11 |
Ender2070_ | paranoid is raid-z :) | Feb 18 23:11 |
Ender2070_ | without a performance hit | Feb 18 23:11 |
MinceR | paranoid is log-structured filesystem :> | Feb 18 23:11 |
MinceR | on raid | Feb 18 23:12 |
DaemonFC | one "feature" of XFS is that there's no way to undelete something | Feb 18 23:12 |
MinceR | with regular backups off readonly snapshots | Feb 18 23:12 |
DaemonFC | I asked Sandeen about this one time, if it would make it hard for law enforcement to retreive data, he said it would definitely be a pain in the ass anyway | Feb 18 23:12 |
DaemonFC | but he still recommended at least 1 pass with shred | Feb 18 23:12 |
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DaemonFC | MinceR, full journaling makes it more likely that some of your deleted data is easier to retrieve | Feb 18 23:14 |
DaemonFC | that can be a good thing if it is YOU trying to get it | Feb 18 23:14 |
DaemonFC | it's way easier to kill some files if you use ordered metadata-only journaling | Feb 18 23:15 |
MinceR | yes, XFS demonstrated that to me :> | Feb 18 23:15 |
DaemonFC | lmao | Feb 18 23:15 |
DaemonFC | well, sometimes being easily able to trash data is a good thing | Feb 18 23:15 |
DaemonFC | besides, any sane person uses the Trash can | Feb 18 23:16 |
DaemonFC | no undelete is really only a threat if you get trigger happy with rm | Feb 18 23:16 |
Ender2070_ | it depends on which level of law enforcement you are talking about | Feb 18 23:17 |
DaemonFC | I don't know, all I'm saying is that I trust XFS at least as much as Ext4 and I haven't lost data to it | Feb 18 23:17 |
Ender2070_ | im sure that various militaries can crack anything out there | Feb 18 23:17 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, Local police, Barney Fife.... | Feb 18 23:17 |
DaemonFC | lol | Feb 18 23:17 |
Ender2070_ | zip encyption might fool them then | Feb 18 23:18 |
DaemonFC | let him walk around with one bullet just to make him feel better about himself :D | Feb 18 23:18 |
Ender2070_ | the fbi for example claims it uses a beowulf cluster of 7 Playstation 3's to crack the hard drives of suspected owners of child porn | Feb 18 23:18 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, If they send your PC off to the FBI you might be in trouble | Feb 18 23:19 |
Ender2070_ | thats just for encryption | Feb 18 23:19 |
Ender2070_ | deleted files is even easier | Feb 18 23:19 |
DaemonFC | I personally have a shell script I can run quickly if I need to that shreds my home folder | Feb 18 23:19 |
DaemonFC | :D | Feb 18 23:19 |
Ender2070_ | they take the disk apart in a clean room | Feb 18 23:19 |
Ender2070_ | they have tools that will read off the surface of the magnetic disk | Feb 18 23:20 |
DaemonFC | yeah | Feb 18 23:20 |
DaemonFC | I always destroy a hard disk before getting rid of it | Feb 18 23:20 |
DaemonFC | I don't care who you are, you're not getting data off it | Feb 18 23:20 |
Ender2070_ | your only guaranteed solution is probably thermite, thought i'm not sure if thats legal | Feb 18 23:20 |
FurnaceBoy | MinceR: DaemonFC there's no real way to solve the integrity problem on a write-in-place system | Feb 18 23:21 |
FurnaceBoy | first , you need copy-on-write; then you want checksums, redundancy, and atomic transactions. | Feb 18 23:22 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, One drive I shredded all the files on it 12 passes, broke the head off of it, passed a degaussing magnet over it several times, scretched the platter up, then poured lighter fluid on it and burned it | Feb 18 23:22 |
DaemonFC | :) | Feb 18 23:22 |
Ender2070_ | or other ways of physically destroying the disk beyond recovery | Feb 18 23:22 |
FurnaceBoy | all conventional filesystems, and hardware raid, trust integrity to dumb luck. | Feb 18 23:22 |
Ender2070_ | I remember though reading an article about the US military having their shit rigged with thermite in case the plane it was on crashed in some other country. | Feb 18 23:22 |
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DaemonFC | Ender2070_, Good idea | Feb 18 23:23 |
Ender2070_ | there was that one incident where a US plane crashed in China, and I don't think they ever got it back | Feb 18 23:23 |
FurnaceBoy | hehe yes i remember that | Feb 18 23:23 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, We did | Feb 18 23:23 |
DaemonFC | the Chinese dismantled it and sent it back to us in pieces | Feb 18 23:23 |
Ender2070_ | LOL | Feb 18 23:23 |
FurnaceBoy | LOL | Feb 18 23:23 |
DaemonFC | but we *did* get it back | Feb 18 23:23 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: i bet the warranty was void | Feb 18 23:24 |
Ender2070_ | now they have thermite | Feb 18 23:24 |
Ender2070_ | lol | Feb 18 23:24 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, Clinton deliberately let stuff like that happen | Feb 18 23:24 |
DaemonFC | like the spy satellite he let them launch which "crashed" | Feb 18 23:24 |
DaemonFC | and we had to change all our codes | Feb 18 23:24 |
Ender2070_ | did they steal the ACS module? | Feb 18 23:24 |
DaemonFC | who knows what survived, but they wouldn't tell us if anything did | Feb 18 23:25 |
FurnaceBoy | Ender2070_: they stole the freakin flux capacitor | Feb 18 23:25 |
DaemonFC | so we had to change our access codes anyway | Feb 18 23:25 |
Ender2070_ | lol modern warfare 2 joke | Feb 18 23:25 |
DaemonFC | cost millions of dollars | Feb 18 23:25 |
FurnaceBoy | Ender2070_: and the dilithium crystals | Feb 18 23:25 |
DaemonFC | Clinton should be lynched | Feb 18 23:25 |
Ender2070_ | now you can get copies for $1.00 | Feb 18 23:25 |
DaemonFC | Clinton was a treasonous bastard in so many ways | Feb 18 23:26 |
DaemonFC | and they impeach him for getting a blowjob | Feb 18 23:26 |
Ender2070_ | they all are | Feb 18 23:26 |
Ender2070_ | nah he probably pulled rank too many times so they took him out | Feb 18 23:27 |
DaemonFC | I was actually hoping the Senate wouldn't convict him | Feb 18 23:27 |
DaemonFC | the president owould have been Al Gore, ewww | Feb 18 23:27 |
DaemonFC | maybe that's why they didn't | Feb 18 23:27 |
Ender2070_ | yeah, and he would put in all those stupid green laws | Feb 18 23:27 |
DaemonFC | I wouldn't vote for him | Feb 18 23:28 |
DaemonFC | the 2000 "election" was kind of like, no matter who won, we would lose | Feb 18 23:28 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: almost. | Feb 18 23:28 |
DaemonFC | but I have a hard time saying I liked Bush any better :) | Feb 18 23:28 |
Ender2070_ | it doesnt really matter who gets elected | Feb 18 23:28 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: if that had been true, there would have been no need for the Supreme Court charade. | Feb 18 23:28 |
Ender2070_ | the lobbyists dont change | Feb 18 23:28 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: Al Gore was apparently the last uncontrolled Presidential candidate | Feb 18 23:28 |
DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy, he's controlled | Feb 18 23:29 |
DaemonFC | he's one of the bad guys | Feb 18 23:29 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: then why bother with the miscounting? | Feb 18 23:29 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: and the Supreme Court bullshit? | Feb 18 23:29 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: high risk | Feb 18 23:29 |
Ender2070_ | i wouldn't have voted bush either | Feb 18 23:29 |
DaemonFC | he's investing in all kinds of "green" shit and then trying to get green laws passed so we all have to buy the shit he owns | Feb 18 23:29 |
Ender2070_ | if i was american | Feb 18 23:29 |
DaemonFC | he's very biased | Feb 18 23:29 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: lowest risk is to run only controlled candidates, they fixed it by 2004/2008 | Feb 18 23:29 |
DaemonFC | he stands to make billions if the fabricated "environmental" laws go into effect | Feb 18 23:30 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: perhaps you're unclear what i mean by controlled... | Feb 18 23:30 |
Ender2070_ | taxing people for the "sin" of breathing | Feb 18 23:30 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, Taxing them to death to heat their homes for crying out loud | Feb 18 23:30 |
DaemonFC | but don't tax those rich people for their V12 Mercedes now | Feb 18 23:31 |
DaemonFC | riiiiiiight | Feb 18 23:31 |
Ender2070_ | microsoft pays less than 1% tax | Feb 18 23:31 |
DaemonFC | Why don't they have to pay for anything they do? | Feb 18 23:31 |
Ender2070_ | bush helped lower it | Feb 18 23:31 |
DaemonFC | I'll agree to a green tax when it's impossible for rich people to evade their fair share | Feb 18 23:32 |
DaemonFC | how's that? | Feb 18 23:32 |
Ender2070_ | microsoft should be at 20% | Feb 18 23:32 |
DaemonFC | at least | Feb 18 23:32 |
Ender2070_ | they shouldn't be getting tax breaks for running a monopoly | Feb 18 23:32 |
DaemonFC | they should be at 39% actually | Feb 18 23:32 |
Ender2070_ | *should* | Feb 18 23:33 |
DaemonFC | like they were in the top tax bracket for rich people, pre-bush | Feb 18 23:33 |
FurnaceBoy | let's hope we can look back and say 2010 is the worst it got | Feb 18 23:33 |
Ender2070_ | at *LEAST* 20% | Feb 18 23:33 |
Ender2070_ | not 0.5% | Feb 18 23:33 |
Ender2070_ | especially when their OS causes pc's to suck more energy, putting extra pressure on world resources | Feb 18 23:34 |
DaemonFC | Washington state is drowning in debt and Microsoft doesn't have to pay their state taxes either | Feb 18 23:34 |
DaemonFC | bought all the right politicians | Feb 18 23:34 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: schestowitz http://salon.com/ent/comics/tom_the_dancing_bug/2010/02/17/tom_the_dancing_bug | Feb 18 23:34 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: - Salon.com .::. Size~: 46.15 KB | Feb 18 23:34 |
DaemonFC | http://forum.zomgstuff.net/showthread.php?t=21436 | Feb 18 23:35 |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: Airplane Crashes into IRS Building - ZomgStuff Forum .::. Size~: 78.84 KB | Feb 18 23:35 |
DaemonFC | hehe | Feb 18 23:35 |
Ender2070_ | they get tax breaks, they get a monopoly which allows them to output less and less at higher prices upon each release | Feb 18 23:36 |
Ender2070_ | gives them lots of cash which they spend recklessly | Feb 18 23:37 |
Ender2070_ | such as buying search results | Feb 18 23:37 |
DaemonFC | still running Bing ds like crazy | Feb 18 23:38 |
DaemonFC | bought one during the superbowl even | Feb 18 23:38 |
DaemonFC | you know that was pricey | Feb 18 23:38 |
Ender2070_ | they are losing millions | Feb 18 23:38 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: about 35 seconds' revenue | Feb 18 23:38 |
DaemonFC | their usage share is stuck around 3% no matter what they do | Feb 18 23:38 |
Ender2070_ | i think they got 10% | Feb 18 23:38 |
Ender2070_ | at the cost of many millions of dollars | Feb 18 23:38 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, You have to count Yahell to get to 10% | Feb 18 23:38 |
Ender2070_ | it was approved was it not? | Feb 18 23:39 |
DaemonFC | lots of people use Yahell not knowing it's Bing | Feb 18 23:39 |
DaemonFC | not the merger | Feb 18 23:39 |
Ender2070_ | Ubuntu will be powered indirectly by Bing | Feb 18 23:39 |
DaemonFC | they're using Bing as their backend though | Feb 18 23:39 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, Maybe it's not a bad thing, who knows? | Feb 18 23:39 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Hey, #Bing, you at double digits yet? #microsoft #hahaha | Feb 18 23:40 | |
Ender2070_ | I would say it is | Feb 18 23:40 |
DaemonFC | well, it won't up their usage share more than a tenth of a percent or so | Feb 18 23:40 |
DaemonFC | search ads are blocked by Adblock Plus | Feb 18 23:40 |
DaemonFC | and they'll probably pay out to Canonical more than they make on the ads | Feb 18 23:40 |
DaemonFC | they probably had to pay Canonical an up front sum | Feb 18 23:40 |
Ender2070_ | they are never going to make money on it | Feb 18 23:40 |
DaemonFC | that's a guess though | Feb 18 23:40 |
Ender2070_ | still, by using it I am allowing its existance | Feb 18 23:41 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, think of it as a cloud with a silver lining | Feb 18 23:41 |
Ender2070_ | I would rather use google | Feb 18 23:41 |
DaemonFC | I can't stretch my imagination to the point of this helping Yahell/MS more than they paid for it | Feb 18 23:41 |
DaemonFC | watch it fall apart within a year or two | Feb 18 23:42 |
DaemonFC | Canonical walks away with a few million dollars | Feb 18 23:42 |
DaemonFC | and Bing collapses | Feb 18 23:42 |
Ender2070_ | if people actually use bing then the mere activity prevents ms from putting it down like a diseased animal | Feb 18 23:42 |
DaemonFC | it could go down like that, right? | Feb 18 23:42 |
DaemonFC | CC [M] drivers/net/usb/zaurus.o | Feb 18 23:43 |
DaemonFC | hehe | Feb 18 23:43 |
DaemonFC | there you go | Feb 18 23:43 |
Ender2070_ | other than that though, google provides far superior results | Feb 18 23:43 |
DaemonFC | yeah | Feb 18 23:44 |
DaemonFC | most people will flip it back to Google and forget all about YahBing | Feb 18 23:44 |
Ender2070_ | it also works very nicely with chromium | Feb 18 23:44 |
DaemonFC | :) | Feb 18 23:44 |
Ender2070_ | whenever I use firefox I am disoriented | Feb 18 23:44 |
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DaemonFC | it's not so bad | Feb 18 23:44 |
Ender2070_ | not being able to type search queries into the location bar | Feb 18 23:44 |
DaemonFC | you can | Feb 18 23:45 |
sebsebseb | Feb 18 23:45 | |
Ender2070_ | not by default | Feb 18 23:45 |
DaemonFC | yes, you can | Feb 18 23:45 |
DaemonFC | by default | Feb 18 23:45 |
sebsebseb | MinceR: | Feb 18 23:45 |
Ender2070_ | oh you can | Feb 18 23:45 |
Ender2070_ | 3.6 added it right? | Feb 18 23:45 |
DaemonFC | unless you have Comcast and they typojack you to Yahell | Feb 18 23:45 |
DaemonFC | I turned the typojacking off | Feb 18 23:45 |
DaemonFC | and Firefox works right again | Feb 18 23:46 |
Ender2070_ | my isp does that too actually | Feb 18 23:46 |
MinceR | sebsebseb: | Feb 18 23:46 |
Ender2070_ | it gives a customized google search with its own adsense | Feb 18 23:46 |
DaemonFC | yup | Feb 18 23:46 |
DaemonFC | turn it off? | Feb 18 23:46 |
Ender2070_ | and bell logos | Feb 18 23:47 |
DaemonFC | optout? | Feb 18 23:47 |
Ender2070_ | when you turn it off from its config it just displays a fake browser error message instead | Feb 18 23:47 |
Ender2070_ | depending on your browser | Feb 18 23:47 |
DaemonFC | nice | Feb 18 23:47 |
Ender2070_ | i have to use opendns | Feb 18 23:47 |
DaemonFC | full of ads? | Feb 18 23:47 |
Ender2070_ | no ads | Feb 18 23:47 |
Ender2070_ | but its fake | Feb 18 23:47 |
Ender2070_ | its not firefox's real dns error message | Feb 18 23:48 |
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Ender2070_ | its off a bit | Feb 18 23:48 |
Ender2070_ | and for IE you get the old ie6 dns message | Feb 18 23:48 |
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DaemonFC | lmao | Feb 18 23:48 |
Ender2070_ | opera gets you whatever your ident string is | Feb 18 23:48 |
DaemonFC | even on IE 8? | Feb 18 23:49 |
Ender2070_ | yeah | Feb 18 23:49 |
DaemonFC | why do they do that? | Feb 18 23:49 |
DaemonFC | off means OFF goddammit! | Feb 18 23:49 |
DaemonFC | :D | Feb 18 23:49 |
Ender2070_ | to make it look like they arent still hijacking you | Feb 18 23:49 |
Ender2070_ | basicly, when you turn it off | Feb 18 23:49 |
DaemonFC | what's the point? | Feb 18 23:49 |
Ender2070_ | it gives you a cookie | Feb 18 23:49 |
DaemonFC | no ads, no money | Feb 18 23:49 |
Ender2070_ | when you type in a typo address, it still hijacks and goes to domainnotfound.ca but the cookie tells it to send you a fake dns error message instead | Feb 18 23:50 |
Ender2070_ | so you cant even turn it off for all the pc's | Feb 18 23:50 |
Ender2070_ | your relatives may earn them money | Feb 18 23:50 |
Ender2070_ | or anyone you share wireless with | Feb 18 23:50 |
DaemonFC | damn | Feb 18 23:51 |
Ender2070_ | i had to configure my router for opendns | Feb 18 23:51 |
DaemonFC | It's more Comcastic than Comcast | Feb 18 23:51 |
Ender2070_ | Rogers does it too | Feb 18 23:51 |
DaemonFC | Comcast is trying to make typojacking an IETF "standard" | Feb 18 23:51 |
FurnaceBoy | :( | Feb 18 23:52 |
Ender2070_ | if you clear your cookies regularly it comes back | Feb 18 23:53 |
Ender2070_ | so lame | Feb 18 23:53 |
Ender2070_ | its just as bad as paying for tv and having to watch commercials | Feb 18 23:53 |
FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: rebranding to Xfinity per this week's /. story | Feb 18 23:54 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, Set Firefox to not allow the cookies | Feb 18 23:54 |
DaemonFC | site prefs | Feb 18 23:54 |
Ender2070_ | then it will never turn off | Feb 18 23:54 |
sebsebseb | MinceR: | Feb 18 23:55 |
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Study Confirms That #Vista7 is Bloated http://boycottnovell.com/2010/02/18/vista-7-memory-hog/ | Feb 18 23:55 | |
phIRCe-BNc | Title: New Study Confirms That Vista 7 is Bloated | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 87.74 KB | Feb 18 23:55 |
Ender2070_ | it requires a cookie to get the fake error message | Feb 18 23:55 |
Ender2070_ | otherwise you generate them ad revenue with their custom search | Feb 18 23:55 |
DaemonFC | Ender2070_, HOSTS file? | Feb 18 23:56 |
Ender2070_ | you could do that | Feb 18 23:56 |
Ender2070_ | but its easier just to setup opendns | Feb 18 23:56 |
Ender2070_ | then you dont have to make a HOSTS on each users pc | Feb 18 23:56 |
DaemonFC | lmao Andy Tannenbaum: "The PDP-11 ran at about 1 Mhz and booted in 5 seconds, modern PCs run at about 3,000 Mhz and boot in about 5 minutes" | Feb 18 23:58 |
DaemonFC | nice | Feb 18 23:58 |
Ender2070_ | bloat | Feb 18 23:59 |
DaemonFC | yeah | Feb 18 23:59 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu boots in about 25 seconds | Feb 18 23:59 |
DaemonFC | Vists boots in about 1 minute | Feb 18 23:59 |
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