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| MinceR | if the debt keeps growing forever, then it's not being run properly, imo | Oct 05 23:31 |
|---|---|---|
| Sosumi | well, money for the big boys that is | Oct 05 23:31 |
| JimmyCarter | wont grow forever | Oct 05 23:31 |
| JimmyCarter | definite limits to status quo of borrowing propsperity from future | Oct 05 23:31 |
| DaemonFC | Well, it can. | Oct 05 23:31 |
| DaemonFC | As long as the money supply keeps growing and creditors tolerate that. | Oct 05 23:32 |
| Sosumi | it'll end up blowing in everyone's face | Oct 05 23:32 |
| JimmyCarter | usa currently 73% debt-to-gdp ratio says CBO | Oct 05 23:32 |
| Sosumi | portugal currently at 123% and rising :P | Oct 05 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | That's what the bankers want. | Oct 05 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | They want endless government red ink. | Oct 05 23:34 |
| Sosumi | yeah | Oct 05 23:34 |
| JimmyCarter | the federal income is about 10% of gdp | Oct 05 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | Every year, the public grows more indebted to bankers for programs that could easily be paid for by slight tax increases on the wealthy. | Oct 05 23:35 |
| JimmyCarter | so debt is currently at approx 7x federal income | Oct 05 23:35 |
| Sosumi | but you do know the wealthy put their money in trusts | Oct 05 23:35 |
| JimmyCarter | analogoys to someone with 100k/yr job being 700k in debt | Oct 05 23:35 |
| Sosumi | or create non profit foundations | Oct 05 23:35 |
| JimmyCarter | analogous | Oct 05 23:36 |
| DaemonFC | first comes the debt bomb | Oct 05 23:36 |
| DaemonFC | then comes the public pension looting | Oct 05 23:36 |
| DaemonFC | then comes the taxation bomb | Oct 05 23:36 |
| Sosumi | so, increasing tax on the wealthy = killing middle class | Oct 05 23:36 |
| Sosumi | also yes, pension funds raiding and bail ins | Oct 05 23:37 |
| JimmyCarter | yeah just like a credit card company, lenders are happy to collect interest | Oct 05 23:37 |
| DaemonFC | Well, it reminds me of a credit card company that says you have a $5,000 limit. | Oct 05 23:37 |
| DaemonFC | Then when you get close to that, they up it to $10,000, then $20,000. | Oct 05 23:37 |
| JimmyCarter | but lenders are anyone and everyone who buys us bonds | Oct 05 23:37 |
| Sosumi | exactly | Oct 05 23:37 |
| DaemonFC | The only time they stop increasing your limit is when they think that your ability to make the minimum payment (which doesn't get you out of debt) will be threatened. | Oct 05 23:39 |
| DaemonFC | JimmyCarter, Well, it does matter who the creditors are. | Oct 05 23:39 |
| DaemonFC | Obviously, you want your own citizens holding your public debt. | Oct 05 23:39 |
| DaemonFC | Then it becomes a transfer of funds instead of bleeding money out to foreign citizens and governments. | Oct 05 23:40 |
| DaemonFC | If your own citizens are earning the interest, then it's likely that they're going to reinvest that interest into the domestic economy at some point, in some way. | Oct 05 23:41 |
| JimmyCarter | yeah | Oct 05 23:48 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/10/03/remarks-president-government-shutdown | Oct 05 23:48 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.whitehouse.gov | Remarks by the President on the Government Shutdown | The White House [ http://ur1.ca/fud6m ] | Oct 05 23:48 |
| DaemonFC | That's why everyone should save back some cash. | Oct 05 23:48 |
| DaemonFC | At least enough to get them through a couple of months. | Oct 05 23:49 |
| DaemonFC | Social Security checks may not go out next month. | Oct 05 23:49 |
| DaemonFC | But they'd probably work something out to where people get a double check in December or something. | Oct 05 23:49 |
| DaemonFC | But a lot of good that does if you run out of food and can't pay the rent in November. | Oct 05 23:50 |
| JimmyCarter | Foreign governments and investors hold 48% of the nation's public debt. The next largest part (21%) is held by other governmental entities, like the Federal Reserve and state and local governments. Fifteen percent is held by mutual funds, private pension funds, savings bonds or individual Treasury notes. The rest (16%) is held by businesses, like banks, and insurance companies and a mish-mash of trusts, businesses and investors. | Oct 05 23:50 |
| DaemonFC | Social Security alone holds over three trillion dollars. | Oct 05 23:52 |
| DaemonFC | Guess who takes it up the tailpipe first when the government defaults. | Oct 05 23:52 |
| DaemonFC | Hint: Not the banksters. | Oct 05 23:52 |
| DaemonFC | There's another simple explanation for why the government just doesn't tax enough to run its programs. | Oct 05 23:53 |
| DaemonFC | The programs are popular, but the taxes aren't. | Oct 05 23:53 |
| DaemonFC | By running deficits, it can run popular programs while keeping taxes low (for now). | Oct 05 23:53 |
| DaemonFC | The entities that the government borrows from are happy to enable this because they keep getting their interest payments. | Oct 05 23:54 |
| DaemonFC | The program cuts and tax increases will take decades to pan out. | Oct 05 23:54 |
| DaemonFC | and nobody who is in office right now will be there when that happens. So they have no reason to care. | Oct 05 23:55 |
| DaemonFC | The only collateral a government has in obtaining loans is the promise to raise taxes later. | Oct 05 23:55 |
| MinceR | see, the debt ceiling is not the issue :> | Oct 05 23:57 |
| DaemonFC | It is for the moment. | Oct 05 23:58 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, It's like saying that you'll have the triple baconator now so you won't starve, and don't worry about that massive heart attack. | Oct 05 23:58 |
| DaemonFC | That's thirty years from now. | Oct 05 23:58 |
| MinceR | :> | Oct 05 23:59 |
| MinceR | the issue is all that spending that caused the debt to rise that high | Oct 05 23:59 |
| JimmyCarter | a default will trigger credit rating downgrades and interest rate hikes that will crush the sputtering economy | Oct 05 23:59 |
| DaemonFC | Yeah. It's an immediate concern. | Oct 05 23:59 |
| JimmyCarter | thats one of the purported ulterior motives for all the fed's open market operations: keeping interest rates low to keep interest payments down on the us debt | Oct 06 00:00 |
| DaemonFC | If they'd stop giving the military and the black budget spy programs so much money, there wouldn't be a deficit. | Oct 06 00:00 |
| MinceR | indeed | Oct 06 00:01 |
| JimmyCarter | but you gotta die somehow | Oct 06 00:02 |
| DaemonFC | Governments don't typically "die" as such. | Oct 06 00:02 |
| DaemonFC | They can exist indefinitely. | Oct 06 00:02 |
| DaemonFC | I did like Jon Stewart's proposal. | Oct 06 00:05 |
| DaemonFC | Run up as much debt as we can and then fake our own deaths. | Oct 06 00:05 |
| DaemonFC | That actually is possible. | Oct 06 00:05 |
| DaemonFC | A debt crisis could cause a government to disband and you can end up with a new government that claims it won't be held responsible for the former government's debt. | Oct 06 00:06 |
| DaemonFC | In places where that happens frequently, they often have trouble getting anyone to give them loans in their own currency. | Oct 06 00:07 |
| JimmyCarter | i just hope twitter has a good ipo before the sky falls | Oct 06 00:08 |
| MinceR | why? | Oct 06 00:08 |
| JimmyCarter | personal financial interest ;) | Oct 06 00:09 |
| MinceR | :) | Oct 06 00:09 |
| DaemonFC | This is kind of silly though. The Republicans are shutting down the government in protest of a law that will reduce deficits. | Oct 06 00:11 |
| DaemonFC | In the name of reducing deficits. | Oct 06 00:11 |
| JimmyCarter | also costs money to start/shutdown gov | Oct 06 00:11 |
| MinceR | in other words, a typical republican thing to do | Oct 06 00:11 |
| DaemonFC | Well, for one thing, Obamacare fixed Medicare Part D. | Oct 06 00:11 |
| JimmyCarter | also a law that already voted on, already had referendum election on, etc | Oct 06 00:11 |
| DaemonFC | 75% of its spending as enacted by Republicans was deficit spending. | Oct 06 00:12 |
| JimmyCarter | i believe obama when he says he cant allow precedent of minority hijacking | Oct 06 00:12 |
| JimmyCarter | unfortunately the other side in this chicken contest believes jesus is a magical cartoon | Oct 06 00:12 |
| DaemonFC | I think there's going to be a lot of enraged voters that take it out on the Republicans in next years elections. | Oct 06 00:12 |
| MinceR | i don't believe obama even when he asks a question. | Oct 06 00:13 |
| DaemonFC | They're making a lot of people very angry at them. | Oct 06 00:13 |
| DaemonFC | Including me. | Oct 06 00:13 |
| MinceR | he told a bit too many lies recently. | Oct 06 00:13 |
| DaemonFC | I could see them losing 18 House seats, or more., | Oct 06 00:13 |
| DaemonFC | The Democrats will probably be running the House again starting January 2015. | Oct 06 00:13 |
| DaemonFC | Especially if Social Security payments are delayed because of them. | Oct 06 00:14 |
| DaemonFC | err, the Republicans I mean | Oct 06 00:14 |
| MinceR | :) | Oct 06 00:14 |
| JimmyCarter | i hope youre right | Oct 06 00:14 |
| DaemonFC | Old people don't like it when their retirement checks are threatened. | Oct 06 00:14 |
| Sosumi | just let the republican party be the engine of it's own destruction | Oct 06 00:14 |
| DaemonFC | They'll vote out whoever they think is responsible. | Oct 06 00:14 |
| JimmyCarter | boehnor said he wouldnt let debt ceiling expire. | Oct 06 00:14 |
| MinceR | if it's destroyed, will a non-republicrat party emerge as second choice? | Oct 06 00:15 |
| JimmyCarter | so he may do something at last minute that spells changes for gop status quo | Oct 06 00:15 |
| Sosumi | and democrats split between a wall st and populist faction | Oct 06 00:15 |
| JimmyCarter | such as simply allowing a vote! where minority republicans will side with dems to reopen | Oct 06 00:15 |
| DaemonFC | Yeah, there's probably going to be a bill that gets passed by all the Democrats and a handful of Republicans. | Oct 06 00:15 |
| JimmyCarter | and then the tea party will call for boehnors head | Oct 06 00:15 |
| DaemonFC | The Tea Party will get thrown under the bus. | Oct 06 00:15 |
| JimmyCarter | they want someone who will historically default on debt | Oct 06 00:15 |
| Sosumi | ho the pee party.... | Oct 06 00:16 |
| DaemonFC | I have one of the worst "Representatives" in the entire country. | Oct 06 00:16 |
| DaemonFC | Marlin Stutzman | Oct 06 00:16 |
| DaemonFC | I didn't vote for him. | Oct 06 00:16 |
| JimmyCarter | hes not on my radar | Oct 06 00:16 |
| DaemonFC | Of course, with the way the state Republicans drew the districts, it's not like it mattered. | Oct 06 00:16 |
| DaemonFC | He got twice as many votes as the Democrat. | Oct 06 00:17 |
| JimmyCarter | boehnor, mcconnel, meadows, cruz, ryan, | Oct 06 00:17 |
| Sosumi | Merlin the Stuntman | Oct 06 00:17 |
| JimmyCarter | bachman | Oct 06 00:17 |
| JimmyCarter | difficult to compete w these for title of worst representative | Oct 06 00:17 |
| DaemonFC | Paul Ryan and Michelle Bachmann are more vulnerable. | Oct 06 00:17 |
| DaemonFC | Bachmann won her last election with a very slim margin. | Oct 06 00:17 |
| DaemonFC | She spent some time after that trying to keep a low profile. | Oct 06 00:18 |
| DaemonFC | But she's back out there saying dumb things again, so hopefully she gets noticed. | Oct 06 00:18 |
| JimmyCarter | well go knock on doors and convince your neighbors to change mind | Oct 06 00:18 |
| DaemonFC | My neighbors are not impressed with the Republicans right now. | Oct 06 00:18 |
| JimmyCarter | i suck at communicating w republicans | Oct 06 00:18 |
| DaemonFC | and they are in their 80s and 90s mostly. | Oct 06 00:18 |
| DaemonFC | Obamacare reduced their Medicare costs, and now they're afraid that the law will get repealed and their costs will go back up. | Oct 06 00:19 |
| DaemonFC | Of course, I think it's safe to say that the Medicare reforms were designed to do that. | Oct 06 00:19 |
| MinceR | so, are they like "we're not impressed with the republicans right now but we'll be damned if we let the democrats win!"? | Oct 06 00:20 |
| DaemonFC | whoa | Oct 06 00:20 |
| DaemonFC | lightning right over my house | Oct 06 00:20 |
| MinceR | :) | Oct 06 00:20 |
| DaemonFC | This isn't good. | Oct 06 00:20 |
| DaemonFC | If the power doesn't go out, Comcast will. | Oct 06 00:20 |
| DaemonFC | They tend to go down for a day or two if the wind blows. | Oct 06 00:20 |
| DaemonFC | And of course, there are never any bill credits. | Oct 06 00:20 |
| DaemonFC | According to the weather channel, there's going to be a thunderstorm going all night and all day tomorrow. | Oct 06 00:21 |
| MinceR | :( | Oct 06 00:21 |
| DaemonFC | Whenever this happens, the river rises and goes right through my back yard. | Oct 06 00:21 |
| DaemonFC | It's kind of scary. | Oct 06 00:22 |
| MinceR | it can't be good living right next to a river | Oct 06 00:22 |
| DaemonFC | I mean like 20-25 feet from my house. | Oct 06 00:22 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, That's one reason why the rent is cheap here. | Oct 06 00:22 |
| MinceR | ic | Oct 06 00:22 |
| DaemonFC | It has a history of rising and flooding out some of the apartments. | Oct 06 00:22 |
| DaemonFC | I'm actually pretty lucky. | Oct 06 00:22 |
| DaemonFC | I live right on top of the hill. | Oct 06 00:23 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think my apartment has ever been flooded out. | Oct 06 00:23 |
| DaemonFC | The one right next door to me has. | Oct 06 00:23 |
| DaemonFC | It is pouring outside. | Oct 06 00:24 |
| DaemonFC | I can't even see across the street. | Oct 06 00:24 |
| MinceR | luckily, my part of the (sad excuse for a) city i live in is well above the highest flood we've ever had | Oct 06 00:24 |
| MinceR | (during the existence of the city, that is) | Oct 06 00:24 |
| MinceR | i can't trust the nazis or the commies to protect me from the flood (or anything else, for that matter) | Oct 06 00:25 |
| DaemonFC | The river is usually only a few feet deep. | Oct 06 00:25 |
| DaemonFC | You can easily see the bottom of it. | Oct 06 00:25 |
| DaemonFC | But when it rains for several days, it gets pretty deep and turbulent. | Oct 06 00:25 |
| DaemonFC | If this keeps up, Dave will probably call and ask me to come over and help him pump out the water from their basement. | Oct 06 00:26 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Oct 06 00:26 |
| DaemonFC | Their basement flooded the last time it rained like this, and I figured out why. | Oct 06 00:26 |
| DaemonFC | The last owners of the house had this fucking stupid idea for how to landscape. | Oct 06 00:27 |
| DaemonFC | They put three layers of landscape bricks around the house, and sloped the enclosed area towards the house. | Oct 06 00:27 |
| DaemonFC | So I went outside and dug up all of the bricks. | Oct 06 00:27 |
| MinceR | :) | Oct 06 00:28 |
| DaemonFC | It took me about a day to do that and remove all of the river rocks and lay down a new layer of dirt. | Oct 06 00:28 |
| DaemonFC | They called out for some estimates and they got quoted at almost a thousand dollars. | Oct 06 00:29 |
| DaemonFC | So I ended up doing it. | Oct 06 00:29 |
| DaemonFC | My credit is shot because of some medical bills. | Oct 06 00:29 |
| DaemonFC | I know what they're going through. | Oct 06 00:29 |
| DaemonFC | They've got all the same problems I do and more. | Oct 06 00:29 |
| DaemonFC | The IRS is after them too. | Oct 06 00:30 |
| DaemonFC | Luckily I don't have that problem. | Oct 06 00:30 |
| DaemonFC | The IRS can do things to you that nobody else can do. | Oct 06 00:30 |
| DaemonFC | It's like owing child support only worse. | Oct 06 00:30 |
| DaemonFC | They'll put liens on all your property. | Oct 06 00:30 |
| DaemonFC | You won't even be able to sell your stuff to pay them. | Oct 06 00:31 |
| DaemonFC | They have the "honor" of being in that "sweet spot". | Oct 06 00:31 |
| DaemonFC | Enough money to tax and not enough money to fight the IRS and win. | Oct 06 00:31 |
| DaemonFC | The IRS pretty much leaves rich people alone. | Oct 06 00:32 |
| DaemonFC | They have enough to hire accountants and tax lawyers and they can jam the IRS up for years and end up getting settlements for less than half of what they owe. | Oct 06 00:32 |
| DaemonFC | So they mostly go after the middle class. | Oct 06 00:32 |
| DaemonFC | There's this "tax cut logic" that's really perverse that the Republicans bring out every time they call for "tax reform". | Oct 06 00:33 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, It basically goes something like this.... | Oct 06 00:33 |
| DaemonFC | "We have to lower the tax rate on the rich so they won't bother trying to get out of it." | Oct 06 00:33 |
| DaemonFC | "The cuts will pay for themselves!" | Oct 06 00:34 |
| DaemonFC | They never bring up the other argument. "Make them pay their taxes." | Oct 06 00:34 |
| DaemonFC | It does work, kind of. The Bush Tax Cuts did increase the amount of taxes collected from the rich. The more straightforward approach that would get them even more money is to keep the higher rates and reduce their appeal options. | Oct 06 00:36 |
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| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Oct 6 01:27:51 2013 | ||
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 6 03:43:51 2013 | ||
| *Now talking on #techrights | Oct 06 03:43 | |
| *Topic for #techrights is: TechRights.org | Channel #techrights for http://TechRights.org :: please also join channels #boycottnovell-social #techbytes and #boycottnovell | Oct 06 03:43 | |
| *Topic for #techrights set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Sat Jun 9 18:16:19 2012 | Oct 06 03:43 | |
| DaemonFC | If the health insurance exchange crashes one more time they're going to have to stop calling it Obamacare and start calling it Microsoft Windows. | Oct 06 03:44 |
| DaemonFC | ZOMG PINK PONIES says: | Oct 06 03:46 |
| DaemonFC | I tried to create an account and got a page full of gibberish. | Oct 06 03:46 |
| DaemonFC | It was just like that time I tried using Internet Explorer on a standards-compliant web page. | Oct 06 03:46 |
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| DaemonFC | ZOMG PINK PONIES says: | Oct 06 03:55 |
| DaemonFC | The panel of death? | Oct 06 03:55 |
| DaemonFC | Isn't that what they replaced the Start Menu with in Windows 8? | Oct 06 03:55 |
| oiaohm | Fairly much. | Oct 06 04:11 |
| DaemonFC | I don't like programs that take up my entire screen. | Oct 06 04:17 |
| DaemonFC | Those new "metro" apps are worse than Windows 3.x's tiling window management. | Oct 06 04:17 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: you saw the one of MS offering HTC free license for their Phone OS. | Oct 06 04:17 |
| oiaohm | Really Windows 3.11 tiling windows management was multi application effective. | Oct 06 04:20 |
| JimmyCarter | http://www.infowars.com/peter-schiff-warns-of-martial-law/ | Oct 06 04:25 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.infowars.com | ยป Peter Schiff Warns of Martial Law Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! [ http://ur1.ca/fuemq ] | Oct 06 04:25 |
| gulag2013 | haven't seen Peter Schiff in a long time | Oct 06 04:25 |
| JimmyCarter | i just emailed him | Oct 06 04:25 |
| JimmyCarter | Peter, | Oct 06 04:25 |
| JimmyCarter | What's your take on over-fishing and the tragedy of commons? In your infowars interview you advocate capitalism but don't mention any such possible drawbacks. To me this sounded one-sided or over-simplified. | Oct 06 04:25 |
| JimmyCarter | Do you blame the government for the problems with the previous health insurance system? I worry that your disparaging of "liberalism" and "socialism" sends the wrong partisan message. | Oct 06 04:25 |
| JimmyCarter | Thanks for your remarks about the "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't" situation the Fed is in with tapering. That finally crystalized it for me. | Oct 06 04:25 |
| gulag2013 | That video is finally player. Obama supporters not know what party Obama is in? Get out of here. | Oct 06 04:40 |
| DaemonFC | One of the problems with the cost of healthcare in America is that we have two systems competing with each other. | Oct 06 04:45 |
| DaemonFC | We have a private healthcare system and two systems of insurance. Public systems that limit how many and what kind of people can get on them, and private insurance that is largely a burden on employers and on people who don't qualify for employer plans or public plans and have to pay the whole cost out of their own pocket. | Oct 06 04:46 |
| DaemonFC | Most of the problems come from the private sector components. | Oct 06 04:46 |
| DaemonFC | For profit health insurance companies and hospitals that want to pay their upper management big bucks and huge bonuses. | Oct 06 04:47 |
| gulag2013 | I'm not that informed on the system. I know that it's the only industry that can just send you a bill without you knowing the cost before hand. | Oct 06 04:47 |
| DaemonFC | It's driving costs up because the companies and hospitals want a huge profit, and it's driving jobs out of the US because companies can set up in Canada where health insurance is not a burden on them. | Oct 06 04:47 |
| DaemonFC | That's why a lot of the vehicles we buy in the United States are actually assembled in Canada. | Oct 06 04:48 |
| DaemonFC | The auto makers have a choice between buying these expensive health insurance plans here or going to Canada where they pay a small tax that helps fund the government healthcare that all Canadians are eligible for. | Oct 06 04:49 |
| DaemonFC | So it's a small cost that they can plan for in Canada vs. a huge cost that is going up at 5-6 times the rate of overall inflation in the United States. | Oct 06 04:49 |
| DaemonFC | It probably costs them something like $8-9 here for every $1 they'd spend in Canada. | Oct 06 04:50 |
| DaemonFC | So they do business in Canada and export the vehicles to the US for sale. | Oct 06 04:50 |
| gulag2013 | Wow | Oct 06 04:50 |
| DaemonFC | and the high costs and inefficiencies that were caused by the private sector spilled over and ruined the public sector health plans like Medicaid and Medicare. | Oct 06 04:51 |
| DaemonFC | Doctors don't want to see Medicaid patients because they can gouge Medicare and private insurance and Medicaid only reimburses them at a low rate in comparison to their other patients | Oct 06 04:52 |
| gulag2013 | It sounds like a mess. They will have to come force me to pay for a system I won't use. | Oct 06 04:52 |
| DaemonFC | and Medicare's problem is that it has gone on for many years where it just pays every damned bill that gets sent to it, so doctors and hospitals and drug companies conspire to send the highest bills they can send. | Oct 06 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | It pays thousands of dollars for motorized scooters if they are "medically necessary". | Oct 06 04:53 |
| gulag2013 | YA, that sounds right. Just see who will pay it. | Oct 06 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | So every old person that doesn't feel like walking anymore gets a "free" scooter. | Oct 06 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | and then soon after that, they *can't* walk anymore | Oct 06 04:54 |
| DaemonFC | because they stopped doing it and lose their ability | Oct 06 04:54 |
| DaemonFC | Then when they die, the scooter doesn't have to be turned in, so the family sells them and makes money off the sale. | Oct 06 04:55 |
| DaemonFC | A used scooter can go for $500-800 depending on the model. | Oct 06 04:55 |
| DaemonFC | If Medicare got it back after the patient died, they could recondition it and give it to someone else. | Oct 06 04:55 |
| gulag2013 | Yes indeed, Sounds very wasteful. | Oct 06 04:57 |
| DaemonFC | So they're buying a new scooter at full price each time someone's doctor orders one because they have a patient that griped about walking. | Oct 06 04:57 |
| DaemonFC | The patient wouldn't want the scooter if they had to pay for even 20% of the purchase price. | Oct 06 04:57 |
| gulag2013 | I always wondered if a hospital gives me a bandaid, can I just come back with a box and call it even? | Oct 06 04:58 |
| DaemonFC | The way they see it, it's just one more freebie that they're entitled to, so they might as well take it. | Oct 06 04:58 |
| DaemonFC | I got billed $11,000 the last time I was in the hospital. | Oct 06 05:01 |
| DaemonFC | A few hours in the ER. | Oct 06 05:01 |
| DaemonFC | I wasn't even admitted into the hospital. | Oct 06 05:01 |
| DaemonFC | They call it uncompensated care or "charity" care, and then they sue the patient. | Oct 06 05:02 |
| DaemonFC | They get their money back when they garnish your wages or take your house and sell it. | Oct 06 05:02 |
| gulag2013 | That is really scary. I would just try to refuse care. It's so important we learn to take better care of ourselves. Pay now or pay later | Oct 06 05:03 |
| DaemonFC | Medicare wouldn't be in trouble if they let anyone of any age enroll in it. | Oct 06 05:03 |
| DaemonFC | They'd be just like any other insurance company with a balanced risk pool. | Oct 06 05:03 |
| DaemonFC | The healthy people would make the system solvent. | Oct 06 05:03 |
| DaemonFC | For profit insurance is the reason Medicare and Medicaid exist. | Oct 06 05:04 |
| DaemonFC | They're there to take all the old and sick people with very high medical costs, to get them off the balance sheet of the insurance companies. | Oct 06 05:05 |
| DaemonFC | The insurance companies then get to insure mostly people that aren't going to cost them much money and will pay a huge premium. | Oct 06 05:05 |
| DaemonFC | They offload all the undesirable customers onto the public. | Oct 06 05:06 |
| gulag2013 | I know and it's disqusting that human health is a for profit entity. | Oct 06 05:06 |
| oiaohm | Australia PBS setup shows a lot of flaws in medical health for profit ideas. | Oct 06 05:07 |
| gulag2013 | It is the way it is and billions of dollars on medication that doesn't heal any disease | Oct 06 05:07 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: Evergreen of patents of medications turn up a lot as well. | Oct 06 05:07 |
| oiaohm | Funny enough in Australia we have a few drugs produced in the USA for the Australian population by third party producors that cannot be sold to USA cits. | Oct 06 05:08 |
| oiaohm | Why to use the PBS in Australia drug maker has to agree after particular time to allow third parties to produce the same drug. | Oct 06 05:08 |
| gulag2013 | Ha, ha. I think I follow you. | Oct 06 05:09 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: competition is good | Oct 06 05:09 |
| oiaohm | when it comes to medial drug production. | Oct 06 05:09 |
| oiaohm | USA patent system is prevent drug makers competting for low cost production. | Oct 06 05:09 |
| gulag2013 | Well under a lot of circumstances herbal medicine is more effective than man made drugs that hurt vital organs | Oct 06 05:11 |
| gulag2013 | That is the way it is though, long shelf life, means no self life | Oct 06 05:12 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: unless you have the problem here where herbal medicine does not have decent quality controls. | Oct 06 05:12 |
| oiaohm | Basically herbal based medical medicine really need the same quality controls. | Oct 06 05:13 |
| gulag2013 | Good points, but what that was tried first. It's not an option in most. | Oct 06 05:13 |
| gulag2013 | Nutrition, isn't discussed | Oct 06 05:14 |
| gulag2013 | They won'd dare recommend that stop eating meat and dairy. There is no bad cholesterol in plants. | Oct 06 05:15 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: depends on the person. | Oct 06 05:15 |
| oiaohm | due to my dna faults I have to eat meat. | Oct 06 05:15 |
| gulag2013 | You can still choose what you eat,, | Oct 06 05:16 |
| gulag2013 | It doesn't have to be cows eating gmo grains. It can be grass fed etc.. | Oct 06 05:16 |
| oiaohm | I am latcose intollerent. | Oct 06 05:16 |
| gulag2013 | That's not a bad thing, most of the dairy isn't good for you. | Oct 06 05:17 |
| oiaohm | And I wish that people had looked at my diet earlier then I would not have missed like 3 years of my early schooling due to illness. | Oct 06 05:17 |
| gulag2013 | Oh sorry you suffered that. | Oct 06 05:17 |
| oiaohm | Latcose intollernet is nastly. Subpress imunine system. | Oct 06 05:17 |
| oiaohm | No other symtoms. | Oct 06 05:17 |
| gulag2013 | So they forced milk on you | Oct 06 05:17 |
| oiaohm | Basically I would catch any cold going and not be able to rid off it. | Oct 06 05:18 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: stupid think about being allergic at times. You like exactly what you are allergic to. | Oct 06 05:19 |
| gulag2013 | Yes I agree, I have reactions to sugar and caffeine. It takes all my willpower not to consume those things. | Oct 06 05:19 |
| oiaohm | No they were not forcing milk on me. Yes it takes all my will power not to cosume the stuff. | Oct 06 05:20 |
| gulag2013 | Well luckily there are more dairy alternatives coming out all the time. | Oct 06 05:20 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: there is a bacteria you can add to milk to break down the lactose. | Oct 06 05:21 |
| gulag2013 | Almond Milk and Coconut milks are really good for you. | Oct 06 05:21 |
| oiaohm | before you drink it. | Oct 06 05:21 |
| oiaohm | basically get milk put bacteria in leave it 2 days in fridge then its safe to drink. | Oct 06 05:21 |
| oiaohm | and particular cheeses don't contain lactose. | Oct 06 05:22 |
| gulag2013 | There is still the puss in dairy man. It's just not normal to be drinking another animals breast milk. We are the only animal doing that. | Oct 06 05:22 |
| oiaohm | Same kind of reason. Ie the yeast type consumed it. | Oct 06 05:22 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: You forgot cats. | Oct 06 05:25 |
| gulag2013 | I don't drink cat milk either, ha ha. I know what you meant | Oct 06 05:25 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: cats drink other amimals milk. | Oct 06 05:25 |
| gulag2013 | You do notice after they are past being kittens they don't do that | Oct 06 05:25 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: even big cats. | Oct 06 05:26 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: even adult cats will. | Oct 06 05:26 |
| gulag2013 | I have never seen a grown cat nursing | Oct 06 05:26 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: not nursing. | Oct 06 05:26 |
| gulag2013 | I will take you word on it. | Oct 06 05:26 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: when they cosume pray big cats willk drink the breast milk out. | Oct 06 05:27 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: its all about extracting as much from a kill possible. | Oct 06 05:27 |
| gulag2013 | Will they eat the whole animal raw, and have the stomach designed for that. | Oct 06 05:27 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: tigers and some big cats love full cream milk as rewards. | Oct 06 05:28 |
| oiaohm | Ie cattle milk. | Oct 06 05:28 |
| oiaohm | What is close to there normal pray. | Oct 06 05:28 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: the difference is volume. | Oct 06 05:28 |
| gulag2013 | A cows normal predator? | Oct 06 05:29 |
| oiaohm | Cats as adults take milk from other creatures as treaks. | Oct 06 05:29 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: big cats. | Oct 06 05:29 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: afica where most of the cattle breeds start the normal creature to kill them is big cats. | Oct 06 05:29 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: so yes part right abotu drinking another animals breast milk in volume is abnormal. But there are other animals that drink other creatures milk in small volumes. | Oct 06 05:31 |
| gulag2013 | Thank you for reminding me, good point I have seen my cats drink milk. | Oct 06 05:32 |
| gulag2013 | Here int the states they have pushed dairy as being vital for our health. That simply isnt' the case. You can get all you need from plants. | Oct 06 05:33 |
| oiaohm | And some of the milk problem is human stupidity. A1 and A2 milk. A1 cattle produce more milk due to a dna alteration. But also is less human compadible. A2 milk cattle produce less milk but is more human compadible. | Oct 06 05:33 |
| oiaohm | Majority of the cattle milk on shelves is A1 milk. | Oct 06 05:33 |
| gulag2013 | I didn't know that. I know they boil it so it really has no nutrition left. | Oct 06 05:35 |
| gulag2013 | They come after Raw milk sellers | Oct 06 05:35 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: wrong on the no nutrition left. | Oct 06 05:36 |
| gulag2013 | What could be left, after heating it at such high temps | Oct 06 05:36 |
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| oiaohm | Hmm just that was odd. | Oct 06 05:59 |
| gulag2013 | You get kicked off the internets ? | Oct 06 06:00 |
| JimmyCarter | GUIs are always doom, noone has avoided it | Oct 06 06:01 |
| JimmyCarter | oops wrong chan | Oct 06 06:01 |
| gulag2013 | What are you saying Mr Carter? | Oct 06 06:01 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: no it was power distrubance of some form. | Oct 06 06:02 |
| gulag2013 | I got you, UPS's are great for that | Oct 06 06:03 |
| JimmyCarter | i was comiserating with someone in #android-dev | Oct 06 06:03 |
| gulag2013 | Oh cool, do you code apps? | Oct 06 06:03 |
| JimmyCarter | Brown outs. Build another power plant. | Oct 06 06:03 |
| JimmyCarter | yup | Oct 06 06:03 |
| JimmyCarter | if you have nexus7 or better you can try my game | Oct 06 06:03 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: I do have a ups. I suspect something overheated. | Oct 06 06:03 |
| gulag2013 | Nice, Android market place seems like the wild west | Oct 06 06:04 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: machine only had been up for 6 months. | Oct 06 06:04 |
| JimmyCarter | yup, its awesome | Oct 06 06:04 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: running around 80/90 percent load. | Oct 06 06:04 |
| JimmyCarter | pretty soon the feds will ruin it | Oct 06 06:04 |
| gulag2013 | oiaohm, that's great I switched to linux and have been up 4 days straight. | Oct 06 06:04 |
| gulag2013 | I wish I could try you game, my nexus 7 needs a new usb connector | Oct 06 06:05 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: with pastrusised milk I have been on the recieving end on non pastraised milk. | Oct 06 06:05 |
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| oiaohm | gulag2013: the bad side there are nice little illness you can get from non pastrusised milk. | Oct 06 06:06 |
| gulag2013 | Yes, I wasn't trying to convince you against dairy, it's a choice I made and my tummy thanks me for it. | Oct 06 06:06 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: funny enough the food value is barely altered by the pastruised and non pastruised. Please note canning of food is the same process. | Oct 06 06:07 |
| gulag2013 | They do some crazy stuff to the milk and cows. Big Got Milk campaign is not an accident. | Oct 06 06:08 |
| gulag2013 | i have had non homogenized milk. I liked that much better. | Oct 06 06:09 |
| oiaohm | non homogenized can be pastruised as well. | Oct 06 06:10 |
| oiaohm | The ammount of mixing and altering of the ratios in milk they do is insane. | Oct 06 06:10 |
| gulag2013 | Now I drink Soy which is really not good I hear either, | Oct 06 06:11 |
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| gulag2013 | They strip the baby cows from the mothers at birth, that first milk is called colostrum I think, it's bottled and sold. The baby boy who knows what happens. | Oct 06 06:13 |
| oiaohm | There are very few soy milks I can stand to drink. | Oct 06 06:18 |
| oiaohm | Most soy milks are too grainy for my mouth. | Oct 06 06:19 |
| gulag2013 | There are hemp, rice, almond, soy, coconut, Have you ever tried coconut ice cream? It's pretty good. | Oct 06 06:20 |
| DaemonFC | almond milk is way better than soy | Oct 06 06:22 |
| DaemonFC | just remember to get the unflavored/unsweetened stuff | Oct 06 06:22 |
| gulag2013 | Yes, I'm trying to watch my sugar, what is your reason for un | Oct 06 06:22 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: soy soft seve icescream avoid like plague. | Oct 06 06:23 |
| oiaohm | coconut is nice. | Oct 06 06:23 |
| DaemonFC | I don't like them dumping in the extra sugar and calories | Oct 06 06:23 |
| gulag2013 | Oh thanks for the tip. I have never tried soy ice cream | Oct 06 06:23 |
| DaemonFC | and I don't like the vanilla flavor | Oct 06 06:23 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: its the softserve form. | Oct 06 06:23 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: its in fact colder than normal icecream. | Oct 06 06:24 |
| gulag2013 | Yes, the vanilla is to strong | Oct 06 06:24 |
| DaemonFC | The unflavored stuff is pretty much exactly like skim milk. I use it in my cereal. | Oct 06 06:24 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: so you know that icescream head ache it gets you with massive nasty. | Oct 06 06:24 |
| gulag2013 | I'm not sure oiaohm, but I have suffered some serious dairy ice cream stomach aches. Because I don't have a governor I just keep eating | Oct 06 06:26 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: Neither do I normally. | Oct 06 06:26 |
| gulag2013 | I like the plain almond milk | Oct 06 06:26 |
| DaemonFC | http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/11/25/ways-on-buying-in-markets.aspx | Oct 06 06:26 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | articles.mercola.com | Supermarkets Influence Your Food Shopping Choices [ http://ur1.ca/fufb3 ] | Oct 06 06:26 |
| DaemonFC | "Displaying a dollar sign on the display decreases the likelihood of you making a purchase, because it's instinctively equated with "cost" or "spending." As Lindstrom says, "Removing the sign helps the consumer sidestep the harsh reality of outstanding bills and longer-term financial concerns."" | Oct 06 06:27 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: soy soft serve is about the only icescream head ache in side one cone. | Oct 06 06:27 |
| DaemonFC | I never really thought about that, but now that I do... | Oct 06 06:27 |
| DaemonFC | Kroger and Walmart don't put a dollar sign on the price tag. | Oct 06 06:27 |
| DaemonFC | They put stickers that say "1.76" or ".99" or "10 for 10". | Oct 06 06:27 |
| DaemonFC | Not "$1.76", "$0.99", or "10 for $10". | Oct 06 06:28 |
| gulag2013 | Huh? I have been blind to that $ either way. Now i'm curious | Oct 06 06:28 |
| DaemonFC | "Larger shopping carts equate to increased spending." | Oct 06 06:28 |
| DaemonFC | Yeah, when our Walmart became a super Walmart, they increased the size of the carts by about 50% | Oct 06 06:28 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: its called cost saving. | Oct 06 06:29 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: yes the ink saved on not printing the dollar sign adds up. | Oct 06 06:29 |
| gulag2013 | I know the supermarket here tries to hide the good coffee that is cheaper on the very bottom shelve. The whole eye level scam | Oct 06 06:30 |
| DaemonFC | gulag2013, Yes. They like to put the little bags of coffee that cost like 50 or 75 cents per ounce at eye level. | Oct 06 06:30 |
| gulag2013 | Ha ha the ink savings as they waste thousands on flyeers | Oct 06 06:30 |
| DaemonFC | They put the bulk coffee that costs less on the bottom two shelves. | Oct 06 06:31 |
| gulag2013 | This was Panera bread company. You have that chain right | Oct 06 06:31 |
| gulag2013 | Anyway they have their brand in the supermarket now for $6 for 12 ounces and it's really good, but they try to hide it. So if it doesn't sell then what. | Oct 06 06:32 |
| DaemonFC | The "gourmet" coffee has gotten ridiculous. | Oct 06 06:33 |
| gulag2013 | What ever happened to honest pound of anything. | Oct 06 06:33 |
| DaemonFC | They have Starbucks for $8.99 for a one pound bag. | Oct 06 06:33 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: look at there flyers they are doing the same stunt. | Oct 06 06:33 |
| DaemonFC | You can get two pounds of store brand for $5.99 | Oct 06 06:33 |
| gulag2013 | Sure they sell 1lbs | Oct 06 06:33 |
| gulag2013 | I'm still a bit snobby when it comes to good coffee | Oct 06 06:34 |
| gulag2013 | Stunt with what | Oct 06 06:34 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: are you the level that roasts your own? | Oct 06 06:34 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: no dollar signs. | Oct 06 06:34 |
| gulag2013 | No, that is a lot of work and you can screw that up if you aren't careful. i will grind beans sometimes. | Oct 06 06:35 |
| gulag2013 | I watched a guy at a place roast, it is really good if you can get some the first week after a roast | Oct 06 06:36 |
| gulag2013 | Anyway, yes they spend a lot of money studying us and monitoring our purchasing habits. Sickening | Oct 06 06:37 |
| gulag2013 | I can't say I blame them, but I place people before money. | Oct 06 06:38 |
| gulag2013 | Mcdonalds and the famous free toy training little kids to be life long costumers | Oct 06 06:40 |
| gulag2013 | Coke and Pepsi feeding millions of gallons of corn sugar, and diabetes | Oct 06 06:41 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: you miss the caffine. | Oct 06 06:41 |
| oiaohm | caffine is not a 100 percent harmless drug. | Oct 06 06:41 |
| gulag2013 | I should be staying off it. I'm slowly drinking more green tea | Oct 06 06:41 |
| oiaohm | caffine is most dangous when combind with suger. | Oct 06 06:42 |
| gulag2013 | I bet, | Oct 06 06:42 |
| gulag2013 | Sugar is some addictive stuff on it's own. I tried switching to stevia , yuck I can't drink that stuff. | Oct 06 06:43 |
| oiaohm | Its like the drinks like redbull and mostor and so on they have caused deaths that have been documented by only minor over consumion. | Oct 06 06:43 |
| oiaohm | Max ammout of redbull you should have a day is 1 can. | Oct 06 06:43 |
| oiaohm | guess how many people don't obey that. | Oct 06 06:43 |
| gulag2013 | I know right, that stuff is dangerous. I have had those monster drinks before. | Oct 06 06:43 |
| oiaohm | yet people drink 2 l of coke. | Oct 06 06:44 |
| oiaohm | Same ammout of active. | Oct 06 06:44 |
| oiaohm | This is why coke is working on suger free versions so much. | Oct 06 06:44 |
| oiaohm | Ie no suger no dead consumers. | Oct 06 06:44 |
| oiaohm | Hopefully. | Oct 06 06:44 |
| gulag2013 | the sugar free stuff is even worse. Why is corn syrup to expensive as a sugar sub now? | Oct 06 06:45 |
| gulag2013 | Aspartame | Oct 06 06:45 |
| oiaohm | stevia is a art to handle correctly. | Oct 06 06:47 |
| gulag2013 | I had a real coke made with sugar cane a few months back . I was very uneasy for over an hour. | Oct 06 06:47 |
| oiaohm | suger cane suger is less adctivive than corn syrup contain froctoos | Oct 06 06:47 |
| oiaohm | corn syrup is not a good replacement for suger. | Oct 06 06:48 |
| gulag2013 | Yes, what they don't tell you is the corn syrup is around .20 cents a pound and the government subsidizes corn. | Oct 06 06:49 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: I have grown stevia plants. | Oct 06 06:49 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: the art with stevia usage is hard because stevia alone has a horid after taste. | Oct 06 06:49 |
| gulag2013 | Oh cool, I wonder if it's good like that, I have had the man made white concentrated powdered stuff. I don't like it | Oct 06 06:50 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: touch of honey remove after taste. | Oct 06 06:50 |
| gulag2013 | I bet, good idea | Oct 06 06:50 |
| oiaohm | Ie use stevia correctly it increases the suger taste. | Oct 06 06:50 |
| oiaohm | But you still need to put one of the real sugers in close to raw form. | Oct 06 06:51 |
| gulag2013 | i have some other thing called monk sugar, it's okay but tastes sort of like stevia | Oct 06 06:51 |
| gulag2013 | Agave is sort of scam | Oct 06 06:52 |
| gulag2013 | I'm going Vegan so I'm supposed to not eat Honey, but that seems a bit extreme. | Oct 06 06:53 |
| oiaohm | http://national.cleanplates.com/health-nutrition/the-new-sugar-monk-fruit/ | Oct 06 06:53 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | national.cleanplates.com | The new "sugar" is...monk fruit! Learn the different types.Healthy Recipes and Sustainable Food [ http://ur1.ca/fufeo ] | Oct 06 06:53 |
| oiaohm | monk fruit is a lot clearner source of natural sweetener. gulag2013 | Oct 06 06:54 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: yes simlar compounds to stevia. No nasty after taste. | Oct 06 06:54 |
| gulag2013 | It's good, not perfect but better | Oct 06 06:55 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: but same thing like stevia a very small does of honey or brown suger is enough to fully fool taste buds. | Oct 06 06:55 |
| oiaohm | Ie brown suger with monk fruit works where it does not with stevia. | Oct 06 06:56 |
| gulag2013 | True, i'm an addict though, i'm trying to just cut that out, but it's super hard. | Oct 06 06:56 |
| oiaohm | Basically 90 to 95 percent of the suger load can be replaced. | Oct 06 06:56 |
| oiaohm | 5 to 10 percent has to remain or your taste buds will pick the difference. | Oct 06 06:57 |
| gulag2013 | I believe that, I was off of sugar for a week and my taste buds appreciated bananas. | Oct 06 06:57 |
| oiaohm | You don't get where you were going. | Oct 06 06:58 |
| oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose bananas are high Fructose. | Oct 06 06:59 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | en.wikipedia.org | Fructose - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | Oct 06 06:59 |
| gulag2013 | Yes, but i'm the camp that the fiber and minerals help the digestion and it's not the same as stripped out fructose. | Oct 06 07:00 |
| gulag2013 | My body is fine on fruit sugars, I could eat a bag of oranges and not crash. | Oct 06 07:01 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: funny enough fructose is more adictive than general suger ie sucrose sugercane. | Oct 06 07:01 |
| oiaohm | oranges are not that high in fructose. | Oct 06 07:01 |
| gulag2013 | I see, makes sense I love bananas. | Oct 06 07:01 |
| oiaohm | fructose in high doese causes crashes like sucrose. | Oct 06 07:01 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: basically you are lining up to swap one addiction for another. | Oct 06 07:02 |
| oiaohm | Moderation. | Oct 06 07:02 |
| gulag2013 | ha ha, yes but it's real food | Oct 06 07:02 |
| oiaohm | I guess you also love corn. | Oct 06 07:03 |
| oiaohm | basically you cut suger and your body gets sneaky. | Oct 06 07:04 |
| oiaohm | And makes you crave the fructose items instead. | Oct 06 07:04 |
| gulag2013 | No, I barely eat corn I think it's all been contaminated by Monsanto. | Oct 06 07:05 |
| oiaohm | http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nutrition/a/fructosedangers.htm | Oct 06 07:05 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | lowcarbdiets.about.com | Fructose - Sweet But Dangerous - The Dangers of Fructose [ http://ur1.ca/fufh0 ] | Oct 06 07:05 |
| gulag2013 | What do they call that negative calories, I don't think it has much nutrition and you body doesn't even digest it. | Oct 06 07:05 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: fructose puts presure on liver. | Oct 06 07:05 |
| gulag2013 | I have read that. | Oct 06 07:06 |
| oiaohm | Yes you avoid one stack of nasty side effect and can walk straight into another. | Oct 06 07:06 |
| oiaohm | Moderation usage of fructose and sucrose is fine. | Oct 06 07:06 |
| oiaohm | Same with other sugers. | Oct 06 07:06 |
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| oiaohm | In fact bannas also contain sucrose gulag2013 | Oct 06 07:08 |
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| oiaohm | gulag2013: so yep suger in nice hidden for. 1 or 2 bannas a day fine pig out on them you are asking for it. | Oct 06 07:08 |
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| gulag2013 | I have had more than two and talk about getting high and full of energy | Oct 06 07:10 |
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| oiaohm | gulag2013: just because it natural does not mean it cannot harm you. | Oct 06 07:13 |
| gulag2013 | Well tell an Ape that he eats to many bananas. | Oct 06 07:14 |
| gulag2013 | I do appreciate your help, I'm pleasantly surprised you are that informed on the subject. | Oct 06 07:15 |
| DaemonFC | A woman looks outside and sees a man masturbating on her front porch, so she calls 911. "There's a damned Democrat masturbating on my front porch!". The 911 operator says "Could you say that again!?". The woman says "I told you, there's a damned Democrat masturbating on my front porch!". The 911 operator says "How do you know he's a Democrat?. The woman says "Duh! If he was a Republican, he'd be fuc | Oct 06 07:16 |
| DaemonFC | king ME!" | Oct 06 07:16 |
| gulag2013 | drum roll, okay slightly funny | Oct 06 07:17 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: they have different bio to us. We are more fish/meat eaters than the Apes. Heck the Apes can make vitiman c where we cannot. | Oct 06 07:17 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: that is some of the big things. | Oct 06 07:17 |
| oiaohm | Particular items the human body cannot make means human body burns less fuel than our Ape relations. | Oct 06 07:18 |
| gulag2013 | i reserve that is were I argue that we may be able to eat meat, but it ferments in our system and causes all kinds of health issues. | Oct 06 07:19 |
| oiaohm | Its the fact we can eat meat why being vegan is so hard. | Oct 06 07:20 |
| oiaohm | meat in the form fish or read or white. Basically contains chemicals human body skips out on producing. | Oct 06 07:21 |
| oiaohm | Where are normal ape would be able to produce those chemicals. | Oct 06 07:21 |
| gulag2013 | I don't find it hard, i'm mean I'm not against it for survival. Part me thinks that is why we can, during winter months with no food. We would have been dead | Oct 06 07:21 |
| oiaohm | So a vegan has to be very careful to eat plants that provide those chemicals. | Oct 06 07:22 |
| oiaohm | Something buddist monks worked out how to do for most people. | Oct 06 07:22 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: basically want to live vegan take a buddist cooking classes. | Oct 06 07:23 |
| gulag2013 | That would be cool, I'm interested in buddist teachings myself. | Oct 06 07:23 |
| oiaohm | My case is a little different I have a new proten multation. So I have to eat meat until I do find a plant that can provide that one. | Oct 06 07:23 |
| gulag2013 | Protein/ | Oct 06 07:24 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: basically I would love to come a buddist monk but I cannot live in the eat vegan diet. | Oct 06 07:24 |
| gulag2013 | I have no interest in becoming a monk, just to be more aligned with nature. | Oct 06 07:24 |
| oiaohm | Basically buddist monks have thousands of years of knolledge about living vegan. | Oct 06 07:25 |
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| gulag2013 | They are known to be vegans, yep. | Oct 06 07:26 |
| oiaohm | very good at it. | Oct 06 07:26 |
| gulag2013 | I read some are allowed to eat some meat. It depends | Oct 06 07:26 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: buddist rules are not set in solid stone. | Oct 06 07:27 |
| oiaohm | If they are served meat not to offend host they will eat it. | Oct 06 07:27 |
| oiaohm | But they are not mean to intetionally seek out to kill it. | Oct 06 07:27 |
| oiaohm | or have it killed to suite there needs. | Oct 06 07:28 |
| oiaohm | basically buddist monks are sane they are not going to stave to death if allready killed meat is the only thing on offer. | Oct 06 07:28 |
| gulag2013 | That is where my mind is at. I don't have the stomach to kill animals for my food. So I don't pay others to do it for me. | Oct 06 07:28 |
| oiaohm | while I am eating meat I don't have the stomach either. | Oct 06 07:29 |
| oiaohm | If I go off meat I become a very different person. | Oct 06 07:29 |
| oiaohm | basically nature taking over to get what my body required. | Oct 06 07:30 |
| gulag2013 | That is today, maybe tomorrow I will eat meat again, I don't like absolutes. Today I didnt' eat meat. | Oct 06 07:30 |
| oiaohm | so increase agreesion. | Oct 06 07:30 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: so you are very much a buddist are core. | Oct 06 07:30 |
| gulag2013 | I don't know. I haven't researched it much | Oct 06 07:31 |
| gulag2013 | I like the idea. | Oct 06 07:31 |
| gulag2013 | Being your own power is very important to me. Not worshiping a false god | Oct 06 07:32 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: buddist have to major sects. | Oct 06 07:32 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: one see budda who was a real person as a real living teacher who died. | Oct 06 07:32 |
| oiaohm | That sect does not worsh budda at all. | Oct 06 07:33 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: of coruse there is another sect to says he assended. | Oct 06 07:33 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: yes how to start a long buddist cat fight put both groups in the same room. | Oct 06 07:34 |
| oiaohm | Normally ends with the normal no right to push your beliefs on others and everyone is free to have their own believes. | Oct 06 07:34 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: basically the right sect of buddist you would get alone with extreamly well. Ok might not ever become a buddist but they would be no problem to your because their believes would be simplar. | Oct 06 07:35 |
| gulag2013 | No, we shouldn't be doing that. I have to be careful of that. I just see people trying to reach false happiness and it's sad to watch. | Oct 06 07:35 |
| DaemonFC | I found some pictures of my mom and my aunt in Paris from back in 2009. | Oct 06 07:43 |
| DaemonFC | (the aunt that died in August) | Oct 06 07:43 |
| DaemonFC | I'm going to pull them off these CDs and archive them. | Oct 06 07:44 |
| gulag2013 | Onto what media? | Oct 06 07:45 |
| gulag2013 | Is there something that would last a lifetime? I know cd's are not great. | Oct 06 07:46 |
| gulag2013 | Oh bluetooth devices still get me cranky, I would figure they would just work at this point. | Oct 06 07:49 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: look up mdisc | Oct 06 07:50 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: http://www.mdisc.com/what-is-mdisc/ combind that with dvdisaster you have very long term achive media. | Oct 06 07:51 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.mdisc.com | What is M-Discโข? ยป The M-DISCโข | Oct 06 07:51 |
| DaemonFC | Well, I'll email them to my mom. | Oct 06 07:52 |
| DaemonFC | As far as I know, Google doesn't lose files. | Oct 06 07:53 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: they have in the past. | Oct 06 07:53 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: google is not 100 percent bullet proff | Oct 06 07:53 |
| gulag2013 | M-Disc looks interesting, but they need to be sold local | Oct 06 07:55 |
| gulag2013 | I love hate Google. I use google drive for some stuff, but it's against my nature to allow a cloud to hold my stuff. | Oct 06 07:56 |
| oiaohm | problem is there is not much options. | Oct 06 07:57 |
| prurigro | google drive is amazing for collaboration | Oct 06 07:58 |
| gulag2013 | prurigro, I agree and it's one reason I still keep my gmail | Oct 06 07:58 |
| gulag2013 | Those M discs I see a problem. We won't have optical drives in 1000 years. | Oct 06 07:59 |
| prurigro | you don't need a mail for it | Oct 06 07:59 |
| gulag2013 | I retract that maybe no opticals in ten years | Oct 06 07:59 |
| prurigro | I keep mine for certain categories of things I don't mind on the potentially public record (depending who google shares with), but you can definitel just sign up for drive/docs with another emal | Oct 06 07:59 |
| gulag2013 | Yes, I opted way out of google * | Oct 06 08:00 |
| gulag2013 | google + sorry about that | Oct 06 08:00 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: there will be a good question what will we have in 10 years. | Oct 06 08:03 |
| oiaohm | M disc storage will live to what ever the new storage will be. | Oct 06 08:03 |
| oiaohm | Current harddrives and flash drives don't have the life span. | Oct 06 08:04 |
| gulag2013 | I hope we still have removable media, apple is starting to solder the flash storage on the motherboards. | Oct 06 08:04 |
| oiaohm | Printing hardcopies take too much space. | Oct 06 08:04 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: really it would be warped if in the next 10 years we have cameras on devices high enough res to scan dvd discs. | Oct 06 08:07 |
| gulag2013 | Startling, Did that idea just come to you. That | Oct 06 08:07 |
| gulag2013 | That | Oct 06 08:07 |
| gulag2013 | That would be wild. | Oct 06 08:08 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: I have wondered that idea for a while. | Oct 06 08:09 |
| gulag2013 | No doubt, you would just have a spinning spindle of some kind underneath a dome with the camera lens on top | Oct 06 08:09 |
| oiaohm | Realy no. | Oct 06 08:09 |
| oiaohm | I have done grids of 2d bar codes. | Oct 06 08:10 |
| oiaohm | So as long as the camera can run over and join the different framements up. | Oct 06 08:10 |
| oiaohm | So disc does not need to spin. | Oct 06 08:11 |
| oiaohm | The most compact cd play that never went into production cut the cd in two and used a scaning head that moved. | Oct 06 08:11 |
| gulag2013 | i'm not that smart about this, but wow that would be great make an iso from your phone camera straight to your phone. | Oct 06 08:11 |
| oiaohm | We are talking insanely high resolution. | Oct 06 08:12 |
| oiaohm | Basical microscope in camera. | Oct 06 08:12 |
| gulag2013 | You have yourself a patent, | Oct 06 08:12 |
| gulag2013 | Don't let the idea get lost. | Oct 06 08:12 |
| oiaohm | Currently I archive over 1.5 megs per side of sheet of paper | Oct 06 08:13 |
| oiaohm | of a4 | Oct 06 08:13 |
| oiaohm | That is scanable in on a mobile phone. | Oct 06 08:13 |
| oiaohm | Yes current day tech. | Oct 06 08:13 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: ie passwords in file that are a little hard to copy quickly. | Oct 06 08:14 |
| gulag2013 | Neat, using what that would save me some agravation for scrap records. | Oct 06 08:14 |
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| gulag2013 | I'm trying to stay paperless, I scan most of my stuff on a cheap cannon flatbed. Your phones sounds convenient | Oct 06 08:16 |
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| oiaohm | gulag2013: my long term goal is to be able to get books printed using the system I do. | Oct 06 08:20 |
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| gulag2013 | That would be great. I know I value less stuff. | Oct 06 08:23 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: I just think it would be funny to have the complete works of shakespear or other famous writers in a very thin book. | Oct 06 08:30 |
| gulag2013 | That would be nice, I have some software that will read the text for me. | Oct 06 08:31 |
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| oiaohm | exactly the software on phones already exists to read the books. | Oct 06 08:32 |
| oiaohm | A source of physical world books for phones is missing. | Oct 06 08:32 |
| gulag2013 | Well there is kindle and others on phones | Oct 06 08:32 |
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| oiaohm | gulag2013: when I say physical I mean physical. | Oct 06 08:34 |
| gulag2013 | Oh sorry, maybe I don | Oct 06 08:34 |
| oiaohm | Scanning a normal paper book in takes ages. | Oct 06 08:34 |
| oiaohm | So I started working on systems with the goal of being able to place like 1 or 2 pages in a book containing the complete book for easy scanning. | Oct 06 08:35 |
| gulag2013 | Okay, two pages at once? | Oct 06 08:35 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: one at a time scanning is designed into what I have done. | Oct 06 08:36 |
| oiaohm | so 1 page half the book the next page the other half. | Oct 06 08:36 |
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| oiaohm | I had to allow for phone camera limits gulag2013 | Oct 06 08:36 |
| oiaohm | ie they don't do double side scaning or across fold very well. | Oct 06 08:37 |
| oiaohm | Yes the fun of camera focus. | Oct 06 08:37 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.cityautomall.com/VehicleDetails/used-2004-Ford-Freestar_Wagon-4dr_SEL-Columbia_City-IN/2065800953 | Oct 06 08:37 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.cityautomall.com | 2004 Ford Freestar Wagon for sale in Columbia City - 2FMZA52244BB20397 - City Automall [ http://ur1.ca/fp8zy ] | Oct 06 08:38 |
| DaemonFC | I still have my eye on that one. | Oct 06 08:38 |
| DaemonFC | Told the guy that if he can knock a few hundred off of it, then I might buy it. | Oct 06 08:38 |
| DaemonFC | It's been on their lot since August. | Oct 06 08:38 |
| DaemonFC | No auction is going to give them $4,000 for it. | Oct 06 08:38 |
| DaemonFC | I'm kind of hoping he gets sick of looking at it and offers it to me at $3,500. | Oct 06 08:39 |
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| DaemonFC | The guy called me back and offered that 2004 Crown Victoria to me for $2,500. | Oct 06 08:44 |
| DaemonFC | I'm not sure I really want to get in on that though. | Oct 06 08:44 |
| DaemonFC | Right off the bat, I'd have an ABS sensor to replace, an exhaust leak to fix, a transmission flush, and a blend motor issue for the heat/air conditioning system that would probably require them to take the dash apart. :P | Oct 06 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | So that's some serious money. | Oct 06 08:46 |
| DaemonFC | Then it somehow got a chunk taken out of the front grill. | Oct 06 08:46 |
| DaemonFC | So I'd need to find a replacement grill. | Oct 06 08:46 |
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| iophk | http://torrentfreak.com/google-now-taking-down-eight-pirate-links-every-single-second-131005/ | Oct 06 09:18 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | torrentfreak.com | Google Now Taking Down Eight โPirateโ Links Every Single Second | TorrentFreak [ http://ur1.ca/fug5m ] | Oct 06 09:18 |
| iophk | "If Nokia had kept MeeGo, Jolla wouldn't exist" | Oct 06 09:22 |
| iophk | http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/finland-and-nokia-an-affair-to-remember/2/ | Oct 06 09:22 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | arstechnica.com | Finland and Nokia: An affair to remember | Ars Technica [ http://ur1.ca/fug64 ] | Oct 06 09:22 |
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| schestowitz_bed2 | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/3134661 | Oct 06 10:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Is Slackware, The Oldest Remaining Linux Distribution, Right For You? http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/is-slackware-the-oldest-remaining-linux-distribution-right-for-you/ #slackware #gnu #linux | Oct 06 10:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> www.makeuseof.com | Is Slackware, The Oldest Remaining Linux Distribution, Right For You? [ http://ur1.ca/ftyfy ] | Oct 06 10:24 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | "the author gets rightly put in his place for such a superficial take on Slackware" | Oct 06 10:24 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/2825073 | Oct 06 10:25 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: OK, I guess I got #Diaspora installed and running on the server side, need SSL certificate to take it live | Oct 06 10:25 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | "Is this up and running yet?" | Oct 06 10:25 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | No, I put that aside foir now Plenty of news to catch up with first, it's of higher priority. | Oct 06 10:26 |
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| schestowitz_bed2 | https://www.joindiaspora.com/posts/3144074 | Oct 06 10:52 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.joindiaspora.com | ## Hate the "Sign in to Chrome" spyware feature of Chrome? [ http://ur1.ca/fugr0 ] | Oct 06 10:52 |
| gulag2013 | I'm going to try this nice post | Oct 06 11:02 |
| DaemonFC | http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/nouveau/2013-September/014480.html | Oct 06 11:07 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | lists.freedesktop.org | [Nouveau] offer to help, DCB [ http://ur1.ca/folf8 ] | Oct 06 11:07 |
| DaemonFC | Nvidia says they will be releasing some open documentation of their cards. | Oct 06 11:07 |
| JimmyCarter | you can trust google unless theyre subpoenaed or national security lettered, or whatever the hip feds bully with these days | Oct 06 11:08 |
| DaemonFC | http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/nouveau/2013-September/014497.html | Oct 06 11:10 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | lists.freedesktop.org | [Nouveau] offer to help, DCB | Oct 06 11:10 |
| DaemonFC | "While I'm personally one of the guys who wouldn't like to see a binary | Oct 06 11:10 |
| DaemonFC | blob in nouveau, no matter the terms, I've read the firmware blobs | Oct 06 11:10 |
| DaemonFC | decompilation and I'm quite concerned about possible security implications." | Oct 06 11:10 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Oct 06 11:10 |
| DaemonFC | Nvidia doesn't care about security. They only care about performance. Their driver also cheats. It tries to detect what you're running and apply hacks to speed up the frame rate. | Oct 06 11:11 |
| DaemonFC | http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/nouveau/2013-September/014584.html | Oct 06 11:11 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | lists.freedesktop.org | [Nouveau] offer to help, DCB [ http://ur1.ca/fugub ] | Oct 06 11:11 |
| DaemonFC | "I need to retract my suggestion of Nouveau using NVIDIA's | Oct 06 11:12 |
| DaemonFC | binary-only microcode, at least until we get to a point where NVIDIA | Oct 06 11:12 |
| DaemonFC | has earned some trust from Nouveau in our microcode implementations." | Oct 06 11:12 |
| JimmyCarter | do they care about security performance ? ^^ | Oct 06 11:12 |
| DaemonFC | You don't earn trust by releasing binary-only firmware. | Oct 06 11:12 |
| DaemonFC | The only purpose of binary-only firmware is to hide things. | Oct 06 11:12 |
| DaemonFC | JimmyCarter, I've lost count of the number of times that Nvidia's driver has caused critical security issues. They also don't bother to patch them until someone releases a program that actually demonstrates how to exploit their driver. | Oct 06 11:13 |
| JimmyCarter | pretty soon someone will hack them with their exploits for their own software like adobe | Oct 06 11:14 |
| DaemonFC | Proprietary firmware in an otherwise open driver is better than an entirely proprietary driver. | Oct 06 11:14 |
| DaemonFC | That's the way AMD decided to go with their open source driver. | Oct 06 11:14 |
| gulag2013 | I'm naive, but why play with Nvidia at all ? | Oct 06 11:14 |
| JimmyCarter | some people need tflops | Oct 06 11:15 |
| DaemonFC | Better hardware than AMD, but the open driver is not very useful. | Oct 06 11:15 |
| DaemonFC | So if you use Nvidia, you're going to be stuck with the proprietary driver. | Oct 06 11:15 |
| DaemonFC | The Nouveau driver works with my graphics card, but it is painfully slow. | Oct 06 11:16 |
| DaemonFC | On really old Nvidia hardware, it sometimes works OK compared with the proprietary driver. | Oct 06 11:17 |
| DaemonFC | I think the biggest practical concern right now with Nvidia's proprietary driver is that they haven't commented on how well they plan to support Wayland or Mir. | Oct 06 11:18 |
| DaemonFC | http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/10/ubuntus-controversial-mir-window-system-wont-ship-with-13-10-desktop/ | Oct 06 11:22 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | arstechnica.com | Ubuntuโs controversial Mir window system wonโt ship with 13.10 desktop | Ars Technica [ http://ur1.ca/fugvy ] | Oct 06 11:22 |
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| DaemonFC | Ubuntu is conducting their negotiations with Nvidia and AMD regarding Mir support behind closed doors. | Oct 06 11:22 |
| gulag2013 | Hmm, All I know about Mir is that it is replacing X11 windows something. How will Mir improve the performance? | Oct 06 11:25 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think it will. | Oct 06 11:26 |
| gulag2013 | I don't understand Ubuntu's intentions with most of what they are doing. | Oct 06 11:27 |
| DaemonFC | The justification for replacing X in both Wayland and Mir's case is mostly that X does a lot of undesirable things that can't easily be fixed. | Oct 06 11:27 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: X11 is crap. | Oct 06 11:35 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: there is even talk of X12 once Wayland and Mir is in place. | Oct 06 11:35 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: List of undesirable is X11 secuirty does not work. Lets take screen savers they are repsonsable for handing non protected userpassword. | Oct 06 11:36 |
| gulag2013 | I don't know, they can do what ever they wish. There was a time I was excited but they flip flop in so many directions. I | Oct 06 11:36 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: what happens if the screensaver crashes on other systems? | Oct 06 11:38 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: history of X11 is horble. | Oct 06 11:38 |
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| oiaohm | MinceR: under Linux the desktop unlocks. | Oct 06 11:38 |
| MinceR | _other systems_ | Oct 06 11:38 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: Windows password dialog is handled by the login manager. | Oct 06 11:38 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: on the screensaver. | Oct 06 11:38 |
| MinceR | so, what if that crashes? | Oct 06 11:38 |
| oiaohm | If login manager crashes on windows you user session is terminated. | Oct 06 11:39 |
| MinceR | (as for protecting passwords, there's this >> http://www.openwall.com/tcb/ _ | Oct 06 11:39 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.openwall.com | tcb - the alternative to /etc/shadow | Oct 06 11:39 |
| MinceR | s/_/)/ | Oct 06 11:39 |
| MinceR | ic | Oct 06 11:39 |
| oiaohm | Basically failure should not be access. | Oct 06 11:39 |
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| oiaohm | Some bugs Windows and Linux has. | Oct 06 11:42 |
| oiaohm | Like applications able to snoop on other applications windows without requiring permission. | Oct 06 11:43 |
| oiaohm | High secuirty OS's don't tollerate this. | Oct 06 11:43 |
| gulag2013 | Hmm sounds like Explorer and that knowing what you are typing in other windows. | Oct 06 11:43 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: one of the key differences of Mir and Wayland is no snooping on other applications without permission from the program controlling the screen output. | Oct 06 11:46 |
| oiaohm | Yep programs by default can only screenshot their own windows. | Oct 06 11:46 |
| gulag2013 | So that is bug in both Linux and Windows? | Oct 06 11:47 |
| oiaohm | Yep | Oct 06 11:47 |
| oiaohm | Fedora is dropping userspace X11 drivers. Or I am a super big security flaw. | Oct 06 11:47 |
| oiaohm | X11 userspace drivers require access to /dev/mem that is basically raw access to the complete system memory. | Oct 06 11:48 |
| gulag2013 | In what version, I want to test Fedora really soon | Oct 06 11:48 |
| oiaohm | userspace drivers are very old things gulag2013 | Oct 06 11:48 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: like you will not be attempting to use like s3 video cards right. | Oct 06 11:48 |
| gulag2013 | I really don't think so.. What is S3? | Oct 06 11:49 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: old type of video card | Oct 06 11:49 |
| oiaohm | verry old type of video car. | Oct 06 11:49 |
| oiaohm | card | Oct 06 11:50 |
| gulag2013 | Oh, This laptop is three years old, I highly doubt it. | Oct 06 11:50 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: no way in hell its in there. | Oct 06 11:51 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: we are talking almost 10 years ago was the last time they were made. | Oct 06 11:51 |
| gulag2013 | Ha ha, well I still plan on testing Fedora. I was thinking userspaces was Workspaces, I turned that of I don't use it. | Oct 06 11:53 |
| oiaohm | X11 first was design to be fully userspace. | Oct 06 11:54 |
| oiaohm | Nice big security holes. | Oct 06 11:55 |
| oiaohm | Then it evolved to a little kernel assisted but poorly done. | Oct 06 11:55 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo_jZYDzek8 This is a good watch for even just a few minor generations back in X11 drivers issues. | Oct 06 11:57 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.youtube.com | XDC2013: David Herrmann - DRM Security - YouTube [ http://ur1.ca/fuh2e ] | Oct 06 11:57 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: basically dri2 the last generation of X11 drivers for Linux has to be deprecated because it security flawed. | Oct 06 11:57 |
| gulag2013 | Okay, great I can do videos. This topic is a little hard for me to follow. A little sad for me, I was thinking Linux was more secure. | Oct 06 11:59 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: to be true Linux is more secure than Windows but that is serousally not hard. | Oct 06 12:00 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: but compared to high rated secuirty OS's Linux is nothing. | Oct 06 12:01 |
| oiaohm | For desktop. | Oct 06 12:01 |
| gulag2013 | Yes, lol sounds like windows is a very low bar | Oct 06 12:01 |
| MinceR | it is | Oct 06 12:01 |
| MinceR | and what about macos? | Oct 06 12:01 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: macos for desktop is techically a head of Linux. | Oct 06 12:02 |
| gulag2013 | I read they just sneak in patches, so who knows the truth | Oct 06 12:02 |
| oiaohm | Please note the for desktop bit. | Oct 06 12:02 |
| oiaohm | Linux on server is a different game. Its the graphical side of Linux that has been insanely weak. | Oct 06 12:02 |
| oiaohm | the work on wayland really was a sign that people were serousally looking at the Linux desktop. | Oct 06 12:03 |
| oiaohm | And worked out that X11 could not be fixed. | Oct 06 12:03 |
| gulag2013 | Windows Metrofied Server 2012. Why Why Why | Oct 06 12:03 |
| MinceR | why does it exist or why do people use it? :> | Oct 06 12:04 |
| gulag2013 | Why would you add tiles to it | Oct 06 12:04 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: in my experience, linux has been ahead of osx graphically in quite a number of ways for quite some time-- and the ogl limitations of open source drivers were more of an issue in osx last I checked | Oct 06 12:04 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: secuirty wise OS X has been ahead. | Oct 06 12:05 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: graphical security? | Oct 06 12:05 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: mostly because OS X did the sane thing and not use X11 | Oct 06 12:05 |
| prurigro | how so? | Oct 06 12:06 |
| MinceR | what they did is not sane | Oct 06 12:06 |
| oiaohm | X11 basically has no graphical secruity. | Oct 06 12:06 |
| MinceR | the gui is supposed to be a selling point yet it can't maximize windows properly and it can't handle virtual desktops properly | Oct 06 12:06 |
| MinceR | the global menu bar is a usability failure | Oct 06 12:06 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: from a userablity point of view I would agree OS X is not sane. | Oct 06 12:06 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: in regards to what? display servers from other local display servers? | Oct 06 12:06 |
| MinceR | i thought so :) | Oct 06 12:06 |
| gulag2013 | The maximizing windows on OSX bugs me, | Oct 06 12:07 |
| prurigro | I got a mac a while back to see what the deal was and there were issues I was running into that I researched and found were essentially "problems with the osx ogl implementation" and that osx was not for games | Oct 06 12:07 |
| prurigro | but that's not really the topic | Oct 06 12:07 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: Like X11 does not include a proper screensaver handling. | Oct 06 12:07 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: does not include proper memory protections. | Oct 06 12:08 |
| gulag2013 | Ha ha, is that why I have to use caffeine to keep my videos playing | Oct 06 12:08 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: in fact for X11 to operate with other X11 applications you cannot setup secreen secuiryt. | Oct 06 12:08 |
| prurigro | should the display server be responsible for screensavers? memory protection I'll give you on shared servers and stuff, but you were talking about the desktop | Oct 06 12:08 |
| prurigro | well its host based right | Oct 06 12:08 |
| prurigro | so all or nothing at the localhost level | Oct 06 12:09 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: to be correct login manager should be in charge of screensaver in a lot of ways. | Oct 06 12:09 |
| MinceR | it doesn't have to be the login manager | Oct 06 12:09 |
| oiaohm | systemd-logind for wayland can run screensaver as independant instance. | Oct 06 12:09 |
| oiaohm | So screensaver dies and you have access to nothing. | Oct 06 12:10 |
| prurigro | gdm does a decent job these days I've found | Oct 06 12:10 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: exactly why is a login manager graphical. | Oct 06 12:10 |
| prurigro | word, but you still don't think this is secure enough? | Oct 06 12:10 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: you want the least possible running as root. | Oct 06 12:11 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Oct 06 12:11 |
| oiaohm | remember gdm is infact running as root. | Oct 06 12:11 |
| DaemonFC | watching Malcolm in the Middle | Oct 06 12:11 |
| DaemonFC | "They have advanced textbooks, and good teachers, and all sorts of things they don't want to waste on normal kids." | Oct 06 12:11 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: yeah, though if noone can remotely connect to gdm it shouldn't be an issue | Oct 06 12:11 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: no you are forgeting shared computers. | Oct 06 12:12 |
| oiaohm | Like in libraries. | Oct 06 12:12 |
| prurigro | well I wouldn't exactly define that as a desktop | Oct 06 12:12 |
| DaemonFC | I hated public school. I had to go there for a couple of years and felt like I was rotting. | Oct 06 12:12 |
| prurigro | those are more along the lines of terminals, in my experience | Oct 06 12:12 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: they can still be full desktop computers. | Oct 06 12:12 |
| oiaohm | Basically the complete design of X11 is just flawed all over the place. | Oct 06 12:13 |
| DaemonFC | When I went back to private school, I ended up finishing three years worth of material in a year and finishing high school at the age of 15. | Oct 06 12:13 |
| oiaohm | Like GDM is a hack. | Oct 06 12:13 |
| prurigro | sure, but you wouldn't have people staying logged in while others use them | Oct 06 12:13 |
| prurigro | in library | Oct 06 12:13 |
| prurigro | ies* | Oct 06 12:13 |
| DaemonFC | I've always been one to "rip the bandaid off". | Oct 06 12:13 |
| prurigro | if they were desktops | Oct 06 12:13 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: x11 was desing as a single user interface. | Oct 06 12:13 |
| DaemonFC | When something is unpleasant, I push myself to just get it over with. | Oct 06 12:13 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: instead of redesign it properly. | Oct 06 12:13 |
| oiaohm | items like GDM were invented. | Oct 06 12:13 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: remember running as root you can login to any user. | Oct 06 12:14 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: X11 came along when the idea of multiple people using the same computer (that wasn't a terminal) wasn't really feasible | Oct 06 12:14 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: no the first version of X11 was single user. | Oct 06 12:14 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: you don't think gdm drops permissions as soon as its launched? | Oct 06 12:14 |
| oiaohm | the multi user bit was added latter. | Oct 06 12:14 |
| DaemonFC | X11 is only slightly older than I am. | Oct 06 12:15 |
| DaemonFC | It hasn't aged well. | Oct 06 12:15 |
| prurigro | yeah, that's what I was saying-- it's not even really multiuser now-- just separate servers | Oct 06 12:15 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: it cannot because there was no background server to change from user to user. | Oct 06 12:15 |
| prurigro | what do you mean? | Oct 06 12:16 |
| MinceR | if it's the first version, it's X1, not X11 :> | Oct 06 12:16 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: no X11 was design as a extendable protocol. | Oct 06 12:17 |
| DaemonFC | "The first truly modular disaster." | Oct 06 12:17 |
| prurigro | are we on X11R7 yet? :) | Oct 06 12:17 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: display managers or like KDM/GDM. start the X11 server that is the user session. | Oct 06 12:17 |
| MinceR | i seem to remember that x.org is now X11R7 or something. | Oct 06 12:18 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: and that X11 server still runs as root. | Oct 06 12:18 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: wayland is infact design never to be running as root. | Oct 06 12:18 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: all root operations are pushed back to the logind or equal. | Oct 06 12:18 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: what do you suppose the gdm user and groups are on my computer for then? | Oct 06 12:18 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: that allows attempted steping down. | Oct 06 12:19 |
| prurigro | I'm pretty sure that's what the xserver would be run under | Oct 06 12:19 |
| prurigro | like, it doesn't need root to run X | Oct 06 12:19 |
| oiaohm | Only recent X11 with DRI2 got the means to run without root a little. | Oct 06 12:20 |
| prurigro | weird, my system shows gdm running "systemd" | Oct 06 12:21 |
| oiaohm | systemd places other wrappers around gdm. | Oct 06 12:21 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.amazon.com/forum/politics/ref=cm_cd_tfp_ef_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx1S3QSZRUL93V8&cdThread=Tx1X8DTHZCC4Y2L | Oct 06 12:21 |
| prurigro | hrm? what do you mean the means to run without root? | Oct 06 12:21 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.amazon.com | Amazon.com: Customer Discussions: US Military Will Use Drones to Spy on North Korea [ http://ur1.ca/fuh6z ] | Oct 06 12:21 |
| DaemonFC | ZOMG PINK PONIES says: | Oct 06 12:21 |
| DaemonFC | "Beginning next spring, the Air Force will fly several drones near North Korean borders to gather intelligence data on the reclusive country, where an estimated 24 million people live under oppression, sealed off from the rest of the world." | Oct 06 12:21 |
| DaemonFC | pfft.... | Oct 06 12:21 |
| DaemonFC | They've been doing that in a country of 300 million oppressed people that are increasingly sealed off from the rest of the world for over ten years. | Oct 06 12:21 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Oct 06 12:21 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: only with DRI2+ drivers. | Oct 06 12:22 |
| prurigro | X has always been able to run without root-- we were talking about *dms | Oct 06 12:22 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: to interface with screen X11 has always required root. | Oct 06 12:22 |
| oiaohm | Until dri2 | Oct 06 12:22 |
| prurigro | what about when you logged in as your user and ran "startx"? | Oct 06 12:22 |
| oiaohm | Then dri2 buffer handling was stuffed up and guessable. | Oct 06 12:22 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: that is a suid bitted as root | Oct 06 12:22 |
| prurigro | and X too? | Oct 06 12:23 |
| prurigro | it isn't on my machine | Oct 06 12:23 |
| prurigro | ahh, xorg is tho | Oct 06 12:23 |
| prurigro | well there ya go | Oct 06 12:24 |
| prurigro | learned something new :) | Oct 06 12:24 |
| oiaohm | Yep. | Oct 06 12:25 |
| oiaohm | Or in otherwords the first secuirty hole we want by by. | Oct 06 12:26 |
| prurigro | on a similar note, wayland is in serious need of full desktop support (which I hear gnome 3.10 is almost able to deliver now), but it worked quite nicely last I tested | Oct 06 12:26 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: gets worse when you start running more than 1 x11 session on a single video card and switching between them. | Oct 06 12:26 |
| brendyn | man, anyone know how to do javascript bullshit to download things begind jplayer buttons and ajax pages? | Oct 06 12:26 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: like with DRI2 and beffer only one set off buffers on the video card. | Oct 06 12:27 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: so lets play the magic dance of not step on each other. | Oct 06 12:27 |
| oiaohm | DRI3 is bring render nodes and other isolation things. | Oct 06 12:27 |
| oiaohm | Well and truely overdue. | Oct 06 12:28 |
| prurigro | brendyn: ajax will be exposed to everything that looks at the source once the page loads it (view source simply chooses to give ou the pre-ajax version, so grab developer tools or maybe it was firebug to view the newer sources) | Oct 06 12:28 |
| prurigro | brendyn: and then I think jplayer just has you drop the filename into its args iirc | Oct 06 12:28 |
| brendyn | prurigro: I need to do it systematically with tens of thousands of files on thousands of pages | Oct 06 12:29 |
| *brendyn promises he is up to no good | Oct 06 12:29 | |
| prurigro | oiaohm: word, yeah, I definitely had points back in the day where offscreens from one session were accidentally pasted into refreshing images on another display server session-- xgl helped a lot there | Oct 06 12:29 |
| prurigro | brendyn: hmm, I woner if wget or curl can trigger ajax... | Oct 06 12:29 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: the possiblity todo that is still in all current X11 servers. | Oct 06 12:29 |
| brendyn | i searched google but it really didnt look promising | Oct 06 12:30 |
| brendyn | i could not find much interesting in inspect element | Oct 06 12:30 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: basically X11 is a huge stuffed up mess. | Oct 06 12:30 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: this is why X12 is being considered after wayland. For a new remote X11 protocal with a huge stack of legacy stupidity killed. | Oct 06 12:30 |
| prurigro | brendyn: maybe use firebug to check what arguments are triggering the ajax to load new stuff, and then emulate that input using curl? | Oct 06 12:31 |
| brendyn | hmmm maybe, but its alright beyond my newby skills | Oct 06 12:31 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: ontop of wayland or as a more use-specific platform now that the desktop people won't be complaining? | Oct 06 12:32 |
| prurigro | brendyn: that's how you learn though! | Oct 06 12:32 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: wayland will be able to do remote very well using rendernodes and other things to send 3d grade graphics by VNC or RDP. | Oct 06 12:33 |
| brendyn | Oh wow, you're completely right. I had to click to expand (yet another) html div thingy before I could see the direct link | Oct 06 12:33 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: X12 will be attempt to get a more traffic compact protocol. | Oct 06 12:33 |
| brendyn | However, this still leaves the challange of making wget do it | Oct 06 12:33 |
| brendyn | I was thinking that It could be possible with some kind of javascript bookmarklet, but i dont even know javascript | Oct 06 12:33 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: oh sick-- that's actually a major fallback in the usability dept for X11; RDP style drawing, where a compressed image isn't what's required to be sent | Oct 06 12:34 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: RDP and VNC are both compressed image sends. | Oct 06 12:34 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: virtualgl prototype with X11 was also compressed image send but it did not work well because it was hacking the local video card drivers to work. | Oct 06 12:35 |
| brendyn | If i copy paste the link to wget I can download it, and i dont even need to use my login details | Oct 06 12:35 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: basically remote 3d acceated will become normal. | Oct 06 12:35 |
| prurigro | brendyn: I feel like you might have better luck with curl or something where you're speaking to the server rather than something attempting to download the html presented... though following links would be far less energy than curl | Oct 06 12:35 |
| brendyn | but traversing the page to get the link in the first place... :/ | Oct 06 12:35 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: X11 remote advantage is the means to send to client end what area of screen are of intest to applications. | Oct 06 12:36 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: so clicking else were does not result in network traffic that much. | Oct 06 12:36 |
| brendyn | hmm ok, but where to start. | Oct 06 12:36 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: word, yeah, that part I like too-- surely wayland could do that though since the whole 3d thing places each screen in a separate offscreen | Oct 06 12:37 |
| prurigro | brendyn: I've done something similar by using sqlite to create a temporary database of links each time it happens upon one (with an if statement checking it's in the domain I want checked), not adding duplicaes, and then going through one by one each time it gets to the end of the previous | Oct 06 12:38 |
| brendyn | holy shit | Oct 06 12:38 |
| brendyn | what about http://ubuntuincident.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/scraping-ajax-web-pages/ | Oct 06 12:39 |
| prurigro | used that to parse a giant intranet site and extract relevant information in the header and footer of each :) | Oct 06 12:39 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | ubuntuincident.wordpress.com | Scraping AJAX web pages (Part 1) | The Ubuntu Incident [ http://ur1.ca/fuh9q ] | Oct 06 12:39 |
| brendyn | second option uses webkit | Oct 06 12:39 |
| prurigro | ohh yeah, I forgot there was a cli version of webkit | Oct 06 12:39 |
| brendyn | reckon it would be fruitful to try it? | Oct 06 12:40 |
| prurigro | odds of getting it to easily give you the resulting ajax page are higher, so I'd say yes-- even if you do then have to do something fancy for a recursive scan | Oct 06 12:40 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: X12 also will move applications off screens into independant zones. So different handling to share buffers. | Oct 06 12:41 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: even when rendering 2d you mean? | Oct 06 12:41 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: even for 2d rendering. | Oct 06 12:41 |
| prurigro | (since it already does this sans memory protection in 3d) | Oct 06 12:41 |
| prurigro | interesting | Oct 06 12:41 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: you know X11 magic stuff. | Oct 06 12:41 |
| brendyn | the website has a page full of normal html links. i follow those, and then there are 5 ajax tabs that contain different collections of text and jplayer buttons that i need to download | Oct 06 12:42 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: this is really stupid. Over network X11 sends magic ID as plain text. | Oct 06 12:42 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: X11 without ssh wrapping is open to attack so many ways its not funny. | Oct 06 12:42 |
| prurigro | brendyn: you're going for the text too eh? I guess you could just get a list of links to parse the first time, then go through and wget each of those directly with a second script, as an alternative (assuming links aren't generated for the session) | Oct 06 12:43 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: Like at Univistory I use to be able to snoop on anyones screen because it was not encrypted. | Oct 06 12:43 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: yes X11 default spec says not encrypted. | Oct 06 12:43 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: they're probably relying on the networking solution being used to protect it no? like ssh? | Oct 06 12:43 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: what happens if you are logged into the same source matching. | Oct 06 12:44 |
| prurigro | university shoulda setup their vpn with encryption | Oct 06 12:44 |
| prurigro | it should be end to end | Oct 06 12:44 |
| prurigro | a different terminal shell shouldn't even be able to see it | Oct 06 12:44 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: but its not ssh wrapping. | Oct 06 12:44 |
| prurigro | yeah, but their vpn | Oct 06 12:44 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: same with vpn from same host. | Oct 06 12:44 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: ie traffic snooping same end. | Oct 06 12:45 |
| prurigro | wouldn't each terminal be a separate end point? | Oct 06 12:45 |
| oiaohm | Encrypted protocols beat VPN. | Oct 06 12:45 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: histroically no. | Oct 06 12:45 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: because cgroup network splitting is only recent invention and basically not used. | Oct 06 12:46 |
| prurigro | I'm a firm believer that the bottom network layer should be encrypted | Oct 06 12:46 |
| oiaohm | I am a firm believer that what should be encrypted should be encrypted when it enters the network stack anywhere. | Oct 06 12:46 |
| prurigro | word, cjdns would work, though that's too recent to be the solution used in schools | Oct 06 12:46 |
| prurigro | I actually like the idea of TRESOR on that note | Oct 06 12:47 |
| prurigro | though I don't feel like maintaining my own kernel fork of Arch's | Oct 06 12:47 |
| prurigro | tresor + cjdns would be encrypted for the local machine before entering the network stack, and then encrypted the moment it does thanks to cjdns | Oct 06 12:48 |
| prurigro | (the latter being encrypted for the destination) | Oct 06 12:49 |
| prurigro | I suppose at that point the only potential hole would be someone on the local machine with root access tcpdumping | Oct 06 12:49 |
| brendyn | I think there are latency critical tasks in various areas of science etc, such that mandatory encryption screws with that a bit | Oct 06 12:50 |
| prurigro | which would be solved by X encrypting the stream, true | Oct 06 12:50 |
| prurigro | I woudln't really trust a remote X session to be real time.. haha | Oct 06 12:50 |
| prurigro | also, the spec says no encryption is mandatory; oiaohm wasn't suggesting to make encryption mandatory, just remove the "you can't do that" | Oct 06 12:51 |
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| oiaohm | prurigro: exactly encryption should be optional | Oct 06 12:51 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: not forbin | Oct 06 12:52 |
| prurigro | yeah- if people want every layer of their computer encrypted they should be able to | Oct 06 12:52 |
| brendyn | if network providers encrypt, you have no choice but to deal with the consequences | Oct 06 12:52 |
| prurigro | and ideally, people could use a encryption type of their choice | Oct 06 12:52 |
| oiaohm | allowing tcpdumping should not magically destroy eveyrone privacy. | Oct 06 12:53 |
| prurigro | true | Oct 06 12:53 |
| oiaohm | Thinking you might need to tcpdump to debug issues. | Oct 06 12:53 |
| prurigro | course, you want password + pub/priv key crypto if you wanna be post-quantum, so hopefully they'd include that | Oct 06 12:53 |
| prurigro | no sense in encrypting if your packets can be opened up in a couple years | Oct 06 12:54 |
| prurigro | well, a sense, but less of one than keeping your info secure for the foreseeable future | Oct 06 12:54 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: couple of years might be enough secuirty. | Oct 06 12:55 |
| oiaohm | Like to prevent insider trading. | Oct 06 12:55 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: encrypted is a question of are the objectives. Not all encryption has to have a long life. | Oct 06 12:58 |
| prurigro | true, it depends what you're protecting eh | Oct 06 13:02 |
| *rysiek|pl is now known as ysio|pl | Oct 06 13:02 | |
| prurigro | I'd rather not need to think how long I need something hidden for (if at all) for some more generic things like remote desktop though | Oct 06 13:03 |
| brendyn | computers are probably the most frustrating thing in the universe | Oct 06 13:12 |
| DaemonFC | What the hell is up with edmunds.com? | Oct 06 13:13 |
| prurigro | s/frustrating/awesome | Oct 06 13:13 |
| DaemonFC | I went to look at the reliability rating for the Ford Freestar, and it lists "no major problems". | Oct 06 13:13 |
| DaemonFC | But it seems like anyone that has actually owned one reports that the transmission burns out about every 60,000 miles and they have other issues as well. | Oct 06 13:13 |
| DaemonFC | The engine seems to be the only good thing on the van (figures, since it's the same one they put on the F-150). | Oct 06 13:14 |
| iophk | http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-founder-asks-danish-authorities-to-drop-hacking-case-131006/ | Oct 06 13:14 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | torrentfreak.com | Pirate Bay Founder Asks Danish Authorities to Drop Hacking Case | TorrentFreak [ http://ur1.ca/fuhgq ] | Oct 06 13:14 |
| DaemonFC | Ford recalled a few hundred thousand of them to fix the transmission issue, but people that were paying to have the transmission repaired before the recall were paying about $2,800 for a rebuild. | Oct 06 13:15 |
| iophk | โIt would be remarkable if the Danes bring Gottfrid to court in spite of the Swedish judgment. It would mean, in principle, that one country after another could do this to him despite the acquittal,โ | Oct 06 13:15 |
| DaemonFC | As far as I can tell, Ford didn't recall the one that I was looking at, but I still don't want to risk any of my money on it. | Oct 06 13:15 |
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| brendyn | prurigro: i wonder if i could do it with emacs lol by loading the page to it, opening the js bullshit and then using macros to eat up the html and download stuff | Oct 06 13:39 |
| prurigro | brendyn: why on earth would you use emacs for that? haha, grep and sed should be plenty | Oct 06 13:40 |
| brendyn | because emacs can do everything | Oct 06 13:40 |
| brendyn | im still trying to figure out how to just open the god damn page | Oct 06 13:40 |
| prurigro | yeah, but grep and sed can be loaded into a script | Oct 06 13:40 |
| prurigro | once you get that, if you can output the text to your screen you're set | Oct 06 13:41 |
| brendyn | If I can actually get the generated html, then everything is downhill from there | Oct 06 13:41 |
| prurigro | grep -o -e is your friend (-o only returns the part that matches and -e is for regex) | Oct 06 13:41 |
| brendyn | ah didnt know that | Oct 06 13:41 |
| prurigro | so like \"http:\/\/domain[^\"]*\" or something, then snip the quotes with sed | Oct 06 13:42 |
| prurigro | or cut | Oct 06 13:42 |
| brendyn | I'll do that later. Currently I just want to figure out how to get through the javascript | Oct 06 13:42 |
| brendyn | ive managed to log in to the site with wget and save cookies | Oct 06 13:42 |
| prurigro | lol, not sure wget can handle ajax tho-- if you're not using that webkit thing | Oct 06 13:43 |
| brendyn | the internet tells me i cant do it | Oct 06 13:43 |
| prurigro | oh well, I'd trust the internet then | Oct 06 13:43 |
| brendyn | ;( | Oct 06 13:43 |
| brendyn | not sure how to use webkit | Oct 06 13:43 |
| brendyn | i wonder can i get to a login site with that too | Oct 06 13:44 |
| prurigro | you can almost definitely pass parameters | Oct 06 13:44 |
| prurigro | its webkit | Oct 06 13:44 |
| brendyn | how does one click an imaginary button :) | Oct 06 13:45 |
| brendyn | sorry but i just really fucking hate solving these problems so i have to ask for lots of help | Oct 06 13:47 |
| prurigro | brendyn: the button likely triggers a function or post that you can script | Oct 06 13:56 |
| brendyn | yeah | Oct 06 14:00 |
| brendyn | im trying to figure out logging to the site with phantomjs | Oct 06 14:00 |
| brendyn | anyway i have to sleep so ill try it later | Oct 06 14:04 |
| brendyn | thanks | Oct 06 14:04 |
| prurigro | haha good luck! | Oct 06 14:06 |
| prurigro | ciao | Oct 06 14:06 |
| iophk | http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/public-sector/2013/10/uk-debuts-first-open-standard.html | Oct 06 14:13 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.computerweekly.com | UK debuts first open standards with fanfare of kazoos - Public Sector IT [ http://ur1.ca/fuhyy ] | Oct 06 14:13 |
| iophk | "The ICT Strategy said document formats would be in the first tranche of compulsory open standards." | Oct 06 14:16 |
| iophk | but how far did they really get? | Oct 06 14:16 |
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| DaemonFC | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiCAJ8ULnaI | Oct 06 15:02 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.youtube.com | Jiffy Lube Scam Caught on Tape! - YouTube [ http://ur1.ca/fui6v ] | Oct 06 15:02 |
| DaemonFC | https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_626867&feature=iv&src_vid=wiCAJ8ULnaI&v=Pf6KY6rrqYU | Oct 06 15:12 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.youtube.com | Jiffy Lube still scamming customers! - YouTube [ http://ur1.ca/fui8i ] | Oct 06 15:12 |
| DaemonFC | Nobody should do an "engine flush". | Oct 06 15:12 |
| DaemonFC | ever | Oct 06 15:12 |
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| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Oct 6 15:58:36 2013 | ||
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 6 18:09:54 2013 | ||
| *Now talking on #techrights | Oct 06 18:09 | |
| *Topic for #techrights is: TechRights.org | Channel #techrights for http://TechRights.org :: please also join channels #boycottnovell-social #techbytes and #boycottnovell | Oct 06 18:09 | |
| *Topic for #techrights set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Sat Jun 9 18:16:19 2012 | Oct 06 18:09 | |
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| Sosumi | hum, George Galloway, the guy that was for the "Arab Spring" even through it was just another CIA masterminded event | Oct 06 18:44 |
| Sosumi | to kick "ditactors" who weren't playing ball with the US | Oct 06 18:44 |
| Sosumi | so now, thx to the arab spring we have Libya turned into safe heaven for Al-CIAeda, | Oct 06 18:46 |
| qu1j0t3 | right, we should certainly blame GG for that. | Oct 06 18:46 |
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| Sosumi | Tunisia into a meet the new boss, same or worst than the previous one | Oct 06 18:46 |
| Sosumi | Egipt and Syria got lucky after the general Sisi couped Morsi | Oct 06 18:47 |
| Sosumi | otherwise with Morsi and his british subservient Nuts Brotherhood we'd have got an egyptian incurssion into Syria | Oct 06 18:48 |
| Sosumi | so yeah Georgie boy is now saving his dirty face, but just like Farage, no breaking, no breaking of the money power of the city of london | Oct 06 18:51 |
| Sosumi | not to mention the whole free market demagogy, yeah derregulation so the big cartels can come and rape everyone's wallet | Oct 06 18:53 |
| Sosumi | got to love them all, Ron Paul, Farage, Georgie boy, Fat Tony... | Oct 06 18:55 |
| Sosumi | all work in different ways but they're all letal | Oct 06 18:55 |
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| MinceR | yeah, let's blame the free market for that :> | Oct 06 19:28 |
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| Sosumi | free market without its checks and balances only enables the already established cartels to be predatory on small businesses and on the ppl | Oct 06 20:37 |
| Sosumi | and it's the demagogy of free market that enables public and private sector to be in cahoots with each other | Oct 06 20:38 |
| MinceR | free market without its checks and balances is not a free market | Oct 06 20:38 |
| Sosumi | thanks to a thing called derregulation | Oct 06 20:38 |
| Sosumi | it's called anarcho-capitalism | Oct 06 20:40 |
| MinceR | i don't think that's what it's called | Oct 06 20:40 |
| Sosumi | no rules, no checks and balances and joe six pack gets screwed, as usual | Oct 06 20:41 |
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| sebsebseb | Oct 06 20:43 | |
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| Sosumi | http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2013/10/06/ouch_microsoft_no_longer_recommends_their_own_security_essentials_anti-virus_package | Oct 06 21:31 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.afterdawn.com | Ouch: Microsoft no longer recommends their own Security Essentials anti-virus package - AfterDawn [ http://ur1.ca/fuk2n ] | Oct 06 21:31 |
| Sosumi | lulz | Oct 06 21:31 |
| Sosumi | in a parallel universe: Ouch: Microsoft no longer recommends their own operating system | Oct 06 21:33 |
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| Sosumi | but ho well, AV software is kind of useless anyways | Oct 06 21:36 |
| MinceR | :> | Oct 06 21:36 |
| MinceR | especially m$'s | Oct 06 21:36 |
| Sosumi | and symatec's | Oct 06 21:36 |
| MinceR | their supposed anti-malware sofware stopped recognizing gator as malware when m$ was planning to buy claria | Oct 06 21:36 |
| MinceR | they are not just incompetent, they're evil | Oct 06 21:36 |
| Sosumi | symantec? well they're pretty bad | Oct 06 21:37 |
| MinceR | i meant m$ | Oct 06 21:38 |
| MinceR | but symantec is pretty horrible too | Oct 06 21:38 |
| Sosumi | M$ just likes to shoot themselves in the foot | Oct 06 21:38 |
| Sosumi | but instead of using a handgun they use a bfg9000 | Oct 06 21:39 |
| Sosumi | just like the latest outlook patch broke part of the thing | Oct 06 21:41 |
| Sosumi | or the new "puke" metro interface | Oct 06 21:42 |
| MinceR | http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/18/us-austria-water-idUSBRE98H0AG20130918 | Oct 06 21:49 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.reuters.com | Holy water in Austria unsafe to drink: researchers | Reuters [ http://ur1.ca/fuk64 ] | Oct 06 21:49 |
| Sosumi | they need to boil hell out of it | Oct 06 21:51 |
| MinceR | :> | Oct 06 21:51 |
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| MinceR | http://cdn.meme.li/i/jees7.jpg | Oct 06 22:57 |
| MinceR | gn | Oct 06 23:15 |
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| iophk | http://www.muktware.com/2013/10/nvidia-cripples-linux-drivers-windows/14883 | Oct 05 09:19 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.muktware.com | Nvidia cripples Linux drivers because of Windows - Muktware [ http://ur1.ca/fu7qj ] | Oct 05 09:19 |
| iophk | Yet another reason closed, proprietary drivers have to go. | Oct 05 09:19 |
| iophk | pushing Matt Asay: http://www.forbes.com/sites/benkepes/2013/10/02/open-source-is-good-and-all-but-proprietary-is-still-winning/ | Oct 05 09:21 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.forbes.com | Open Source Is Good And All, But Proprietary Is Still Winning - Forbes [ http://ur1.ca/fu7r5 ] | Oct 05 09:21 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | meh | Oct 05 09:41 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | iophk: iny major news we missed? I am still far far behind, with thousands of unread headlines | Oct 05 09:42 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | *any | Oct 05 09:42 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | I am still not sure how to proceed | Oct 05 09:42 |
| iophk | not much lately | Oct 05 09:42 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | One option is, scrape old stuff, catch up with what's latest | Oct 05 09:42 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | the other option is, deal with all Sept. news even a month late provided it's relevant | Oct 05 09:43 |
| iophk | an unarmed woman was gunned down in DC and the papers are spinning it like it was her fault. The actions leading up to the shooting are weird but she was out of the car when it happened. | Oct 05 09:43 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | This increases the liklihood of identifying important news, even if it's dealt with a month late | Oct 05 09:43 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | Not been keeping up with NSA, CIA, drones, etc. | Oct 05 09:43 |
| iophk | Maybe you can work backwards through the queue starting with the latest. | Oct 05 09:43 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | Not a priority right now. | Oct 05 09:43 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | Yes, that's what I've been doing | Oct 05 09:43 |
| iophk | The items that age well will still be there when you get to them. | Oct 05 09:44 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | Maybe I can catch up by xmas :-) | Oct 05 09:44 |
| iophk | There's probably no way to cover it all anyway. | Oct 05 09:44 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | Just added some ad banners for the host of TR | Oct 05 09:44 |
| iophk | I don't see the banners on the main page. | Oct 05 09:45 |
| iophk | BTW the "latest stories" feed is still broken but you know that still.. | Oct 05 09:45 |
| iophk | GNU 30th got surprisingly little coverage. | Oct 05 09:46 |
| iophk | I think the 25h anniversary got more. | Oct 05 09:46 |
| iophk | IIRC | Oct 05 09:46 |
| iophk | There's been a fair amount of discussion of the Silk Road take down. | Oct 05 09:50 |
| iophk | Most of it is still speculation | Oct 05 09:50 |
| iophk | and all the possibilities have included the probability of "parallel construction" even if it is not named explicitly | Oct 05 09:51 |
| iophk | Not named (that I see) is the role of dangerous and insecure methods like IRC in breaking the case. | Oct 05 09:52 |
| iophk | I figure the ease with which it helps track people is one of the driving forces in popularizing IRC. | Oct 05 09:54 |
| iophk | Also its ephemeral nature means that any clever, insightful or informative discussion that might actually happen is lost. | Oct 05 09:59 |
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| iophk | On the web it sticks around a bit longer, usually at least until the site goes under with a new owner. | Oct 05 10:07 |
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| iophk | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/10/04/nsa_using_firefox_flaw_to_snoop_on_tor_users/ | Oct 05 10:47 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.theregister.co.uk | NSA using Firefox flaw to snoop on Tor users โข The Register [ http://ur1.ca/fu8bc ] | Oct 05 10:47 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | LOL http://25.media.tumblr.com/d07ad1926cbf2939193c10fdbd31d4f6/tumblr_msgr6pnFnM1reysmlo1_250.gif | Oct 05 10:53 |
| MinceR | geekings | Oct 05 13:45 |
| gulag2013 | Silk Road got hit? | Oct 05 13:56 |
| gulag2013 | I wouldn't know anything about that, if it wasn't for Adam Curry talking about ordering drugs from there. | Oct 05 13:56 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/3141095 | Oct 05 16:02 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: NSA using Firefox flaw to snoop on Tor users http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/10/04/nsa_using_firefox_flaw_to_snoop_on_tor_users/ #tor #nsa #cracking #surveillance | Oct 05 16:02 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | " | Oct 05 16:03 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | The Register really sucks these days. This article is misleading and incomplete. | Oct 05 16:03 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | First off, the problem with the Torbundle browser was Windows only. Wired Called out Windows in article about an FBI attack on TOR networks, what's wrong with The Register these days? As Techrights noted, using TOR on Windows is Epic Failure. | Oct 05 16:03 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | Recently, a Windows botner doubled the number of Tor nodes. Oh yeah, they published an article about that but left out the Windows and Microsoft keywords, so they know better. Given that GCHQ's goal is to expand the number of compromised nodes, people we should suspect criminal government activity for it. | Oct 05 16:03 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | " | Oct 05 16:03 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/09/malware_culprit_fingered_in_mysterious_tor_traffic_spike/ | Oct 05 16:03 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.theregister.co.uk | Malware culprit fingered in mysterious Tor traffic spike โข The Register [ http://ur1.ca/fuady ] | Oct 05 16:03 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | http://techrights.org/2013/08/07/windows-with-tor/ | Oct 05 16:03 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | techrights.org | Using Windows With TOR is Like Wearing Makeup to Dodge CCTV | Techrights [ http://ur1.ca/fuadz ] | Oct 05 16:03 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/09/freedom-hosting-fbi/ | Oct 05 16:03 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.wired.com | FBI Admits It Controlled Tor Servers Behind Mass Malware Attack | Threat Level | Wired.com [ http://ur1.ca/fiz5d ] | Oct 05 16:03 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | Firefox gets a bad name for being used on Windows. | Oct 05 16:04 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/3141607 | Oct 05 16:04 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Linux was a replacement for GNU Hurd, not the other way around http://news.softpedia.com/news/Linux-Kernel-Replacement-GNU-Hurd-0-5-Released-After-16-Years-387510.shtml | Oct 05 16:04 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> news.softpedia.com | Linux Kernel Replacement, GNU Hurd 0.5, Released After 16 Years [ http://ur1.ca/fuae6 ] | Oct 05 16:04 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | "What advantages does Hurd provide over Linux?" | Oct 05 16:04 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | microkernel, gplv3-licensed | Oct 05 16:05 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | iophk: http://fossforce.com/2013/10/microsoft-five-years-road/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=microsoft-five-years-road | Oct 05 16:14 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | fossforce.com | Microsoft Five Years Down the Road - FOSS Force [ http://ur1.ca/fuagu ] | Oct 05 16:14 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | lots of nonsense there | Oct 05 16:14 |
| Sosumi | in a perfect world, M$ five years down the road = filling for bankruptcy | Oct 05 17:07 |
| MinceR | in a perfect world, it would have never existed :> | Oct 05 17:27 |
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| schestowitz_bed2 | https://twitter.com/jmcest/status/386529120081182720 | Oct 05 18:06 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @jmcest: Rotten Walled Garden Fruit RT @schestowitz Nvidia cripples Linux drivers bc of Windows http://t.co/iymh71eCZZ #microsoft ruins everything | Oct 05 18:06 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> www.muktware.com | Nvidia cripples Linux drivers because of Windows - Muktware | Oct 05 18:07 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | https://twitter.com/PowerEnhanced/status/386530331198631937 | Oct 05 18:07 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @PowerEnhanced: @schestowitz: women are permitted to exclude men, but they scream a lot when men exclude women... I endorse both options. | Oct 05 18:07 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/3137537 | Oct 05 18:08 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared: "All religion, my friend, is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination, and poetry." | Oct 05 18:08 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | "Dr Roy, Dawkins has been retreating from the 'selfish gene' ever since he first published the idea. It is an unscientific idea that doesn't prove anything." | Oct 05 18:08 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | The regret he has is that politicians misrepresented his work to do nasty things. The title was ill chosen. | Oct 05 18:09 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | "The regret he has is that politicians misrepresented his work to do nasty things. The title was ill chosen." | Oct 05 18:10 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | "Cameron - try looking it up." | Oct 05 18:10 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/3142184 | Oct 05 19:23 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: OpenLogic overlooks the risk of EULA and proprietary lock-in, antifeatures, back doors, etc. to make FOSS look bad http://www.openlogic.com/blog/bid/318553/Choosing-a-Scanning-Solution-The-Cost-of-a-Mis-Hire | Oct 05 19:23 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> www.openlogic.com | Choosing a Scanning Solution โ The Cost of a "Mis-Hire" [ http://ur1.ca/fubkx ] | Oct 05 19:23 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | "With licensed commercial code, this process is usually easier, because you only need to look for the binaries provided to you by your vendor. Easier = Impossible. It is more likely that commercial software has copied copyrighted code - the profit motive. And, of course it can then be hidden easier..." | Oct 05 19:23 |
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| iophk | http://bsdly.blogspot.ca/2013/10/the-hail-mary-cloud-and-lessons-learned.html | Oct 05 20:10 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | bsdly.blogspot.ca | That grumpy BSD guy: The Hail Mary Cloud And The Lessons Learned [ http://ur1.ca/fubjk ] | Oct 05 20:10 |
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| *Now talking on #techrights | Oct 06 01:02 | |
| *Topic for #techrights is: TechRights.org | Channel #techrights for http://TechRights.org :: please also join channels #boycottnovell-social #techbytes and #boycottnovell | Oct 06 01:02 | |
| *Topic for #techrights set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Sat Jun 9 18:16:19 2012 | Oct 06 01:02 | |
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| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 6 03:47:02 2013 | ||
| *Now talking on #techrights | Oct 06 03:47 | |
| *Topic for #techrights is: TechRights.org | Channel #techrights for http://TechRights.org :: please also join channels #boycottnovell-social #techbytes and #boycottnovell | Oct 06 03:47 | |
| *Topic for #techrights set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Sat Jun 9 18:16:19 2012 | Oct 06 03:47 | |
| DaemonFC | ZOMG PINK PONIES says: | Oct 06 03:55 |
| DaemonFC | The panel of death? | Oct 06 03:55 |
| DaemonFC | Isn't that what they replaced the Start Menu with in Windows 8? | Oct 06 03:55 |
| oiaohm | Fairly much. | Oct 06 04:11 |
| DaemonFC | I don't like programs that take up my entire screen. | Oct 06 04:17 |
| DaemonFC | Those new "metro" apps are worse than Windows 3.x's tiling window management. | Oct 06 04:17 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: you saw the one of MS offering HTC free license for their Phone OS. | Oct 06 04:17 |
| oiaohm | Really Windows 3.11 tiling windows management was multi application effective. | Oct 06 04:20 |
| JimmyCarter | http://www.infowars.com/peter-schiff-warns-of-martial-law/ | Oct 06 04:25 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.infowars.com | ยป Peter Schiff Warns of Martial Law Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! [ http://ur1.ca/fuemq ] | Oct 06 04:25 |
| gulag2013 | haven't seen Peter Schiff in a long time | Oct 06 04:25 |
| JimmyCarter | i just emailed him | Oct 06 04:25 |
| JimmyCarter | Peter, | Oct 06 04:25 |
| JimmyCarter | What's your take on over-fishing and the tragedy of commons? In your infowars interview you advocate capitalism but don't mention any such possible drawbacks. To me this sounded one-sided or over-simplified. | Oct 06 04:25 |
| JimmyCarter | Do you blame the government for the problems with the previous health insurance system? I worry that your disparaging of "liberalism" and "socialism" sends the wrong partisan message. | Oct 06 04:25 |
| JimmyCarter | Thanks for your remarks about the "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't" situation the Fed is in with tapering. That finally crystalized it for me. | Oct 06 04:25 |
| gulag2013 | That video is finally player. Obama supporters not know what party Obama is in? Get out of here. | Oct 06 04:40 |
| DaemonFC | One of the problems with the cost of healthcare in America is that we have two systems competing with each other. | Oct 06 04:44 |
| DaemonFC | We have a private healthcare system and two systems of insurance. Public systems that limit how many and what kind of people can get on them, and private insurance that is largely a burden on employers and on people who don't qualify for employer plans or public plans and have to pay the whole cost out of their own pocket. | Oct 06 04:46 |
| DaemonFC | Most of the problems come from the private sector components. | Oct 06 04:46 |
| DaemonFC | For profit health insurance companies and hospitals that want to pay their upper management big bucks and huge bonuses. | Oct 06 04:47 |
| gulag2013 | I'm not that informed on the system. I know that it's the only industry that can just send you a bill without you knowing the cost before hand. | Oct 06 04:47 |
| DaemonFC | It's driving costs up because the companies and hospitals want a huge profit, and it's driving jobs out of the US because companies can set up in Canada where health insurance is not a burden on them. | Oct 06 04:47 |
| DaemonFC | That's why a lot of the vehicles we buy in the United States are actually assembled in Canada. | Oct 06 04:48 |
| DaemonFC | The auto makers have a choice between buying these expensive health insurance plans here or going to Canada where they pay a small tax that helps fund the government healthcare that all Canadians are eligible for. | Oct 06 04:49 |
| DaemonFC | So it's a small cost that they can plan for in Canada vs. a huge cost that is going up at 5-6 times the rate of overall inflation in the United States. | Oct 06 04:49 |
| DaemonFC | It probably costs them something like $8-9 here for every $1 they'd spend in Canada. | Oct 06 04:49 |
| DaemonFC | So they do business in Canada and export the vehicles to the US for sale. | Oct 06 04:50 |
| gulag2013 | Wow | Oct 06 04:50 |
| DaemonFC | and the high costs and inefficiencies that were caused by the private sector spilled over and ruined the public sector health plans like Medicaid and Medicare. | Oct 06 04:51 |
| DaemonFC | Doctors don't want to see Medicaid patients because they can gouge Medicare and private insurance and Medicaid only reimburses them at a low rate in comparison to their other patients | Oct 06 04:52 |
| gulag2013 | It sounds like a mess. They will have to come force me to pay for a system I won't use. | Oct 06 04:52 |
| DaemonFC | and Medicare's problem is that it has gone on for many years where it just pays every damned bill that gets sent to it, so doctors and hospitals and drug companies conspire to send the highest bills they can send. | Oct 06 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | It pays thousands of dollars for motorized scooters if they are "medically necessary". | Oct 06 04:53 |
| gulag2013 | YA, that sounds right. Just see who will pay it. | Oct 06 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | So every old person that doesn't feel like walking anymore gets a "free" scooter. | Oct 06 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | and then soon after that, they *can't* walk anymore | Oct 06 04:54 |
| DaemonFC | because they stopped doing it and lose their ability | Oct 06 04:54 |
| DaemonFC | Then when they die, the scooter doesn't have to be turned in, so the family sells them and makes money off the sale. | Oct 06 04:55 |
| DaemonFC | A used scooter can go for $500-800 depending on the model. | Oct 06 04:55 |
| DaemonFC | If Medicare got it back after the patient died, they could recondition it and give it to someone else. | Oct 06 04:55 |
| gulag2013 | Yes indeed, Sounds very wasteful. | Oct 06 04:56 |
| DaemonFC | So they're buying a new scooter at full price each time someone's doctor orders one because they have a patient that griped about walking. | Oct 06 04:57 |
| DaemonFC | The patient wouldn't want the scooter if they had to pay for even 20% of the purchase price. | Oct 06 04:57 |
| gulag2013 | I always wondered if a hospital gives me a bandaid, can I just come back with a box and call it even? | Oct 06 04:57 |
| DaemonFC | The way they see it, it's just one more freebie that they're entitled to, so they might as well take it. | Oct 06 04:58 |
| DaemonFC | I got billed $11,000 the last time I was in the hospital. | Oct 06 05:01 |
| DaemonFC | A few hours in the ER. | Oct 06 05:01 |
| DaemonFC | I wasn't even admitted into the hospital. | Oct 06 05:01 |
| DaemonFC | They call it uncompensated care or "charity" care, and then they sue the patient. | Oct 06 05:02 |
| DaemonFC | They get their money back when they garnish your wages or take your house and sell it. | Oct 06 05:02 |
| gulag2013 | That is really scary. I would just try to refuse care. It's so important we learn to take better care of ourselves. Pay now or pay later | Oct 06 05:03 |
| DaemonFC | Medicare wouldn't be in trouble if they let anyone of any age enroll in it. | Oct 06 05:03 |
| DaemonFC | They'd be just like any other insurance company with a balanced risk pool. | Oct 06 05:03 |
| DaemonFC | The healthy people would make the system solvent. | Oct 06 05:03 |
| DaemonFC | For profit insurance is the reason Medicare and Medicaid exist. | Oct 06 05:04 |
| DaemonFC | They're there to take all the old and sick people with very high medical costs, to get them off the balance sheet of the insurance companies. | Oct 06 05:05 |
| DaemonFC | The insurance companies then get to insure mostly people that aren't going to cost them much money and will pay a huge premium. | Oct 06 05:05 |
| DaemonFC | They offload all the undesirable customers onto the public. | Oct 06 05:06 |
| gulag2013 | I know and it's disqusting that human health is a for profit entity. | Oct 06 05:06 |
| gulag2013 | It is the way it is and billions of dollars on medication that doesn't heal any disease | Oct 06 05:07 |
| oiaohm | Australia PBS setup shows a lot of flaws in medical health for profit ideas. | Oct 06 05:07 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: Evergreen of patents of medications turn up a lot as well. | Oct 06 05:07 |
| oiaohm | Funny enough in Australia we have a few drugs produced in the USA for the Australian population by third party producors that cannot be sold to USA cits. | Oct 06 05:08 |
| oiaohm | Why to use the PBS in Australia drug maker has to agree after particular time to allow third parties to produce the same drug. | Oct 06 05:08 |
| gulag2013 | Ha, ha. I think I follow you. | Oct 06 05:09 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: competition is good | Oct 06 05:09 |
| oiaohm | when it comes to medial drug production. | Oct 06 05:09 |
| oiaohm | USA patent system is prevent drug makers competting for low cost production. | Oct 06 05:09 |
| gulag2013 | Well under a lot of circumstances herbal medicine is more effective than man made drugs that hurt vital organs | Oct 06 05:11 |
| gulag2013 | That is the way it is though, long shelf life, means no self life | Oct 06 05:12 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: unless you have the problem here where herbal medicine does not have decent quality controls. | Oct 06 05:12 |
| oiaohm | Basically herbal based medical medicine really need the same quality controls. | Oct 06 05:13 |
| gulag2013 | Good points, but what that was tried first. It's not an option in most. | Oct 06 05:13 |
| gulag2013 | Nutrition, isn't discussed | Oct 06 05:14 |
| gulag2013 | They won'd dare recommend that stop eating meat and dairy. There is no bad cholesterol in plants. | Oct 06 05:15 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: depends on the person. | Oct 06 05:15 |
| oiaohm | due to my dna faults I have to eat meat. | Oct 06 05:15 |
| gulag2013 | You can still choose what you eat,, | Oct 06 05:16 |
| gulag2013 | It doesn't have to be cows eating gmo grains. It can be grass fed etc.. | Oct 06 05:16 |
| oiaohm | I am latcose intollerent. | Oct 06 05:16 |
| gulag2013 | That's not a bad thing, most of the dairy isn't good for you. | Oct 06 05:17 |
| oiaohm | And I wish that people had looked at my diet earlier then I would not have missed like 3 years of my early schooling due to illness. | Oct 06 05:17 |
| gulag2013 | Oh sorry you suffered that. | Oct 06 05:17 |
| oiaohm | Latcose intollernet is nastly. Subpress imunine system. | Oct 06 05:17 |
| oiaohm | No other symtoms. | Oct 06 05:17 |
| gulag2013 | So they forced milk on you | Oct 06 05:17 |
| oiaohm | Basically I would catch any cold going and not be able to rid off it. | Oct 06 05:18 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: stupid think about being allergic at times. You like exactly what you are allergic to. | Oct 06 05:19 |
| gulag2013 | Yes I agree, I have reactions to sugar and caffeine. It takes all my willpower not to consume those things. | Oct 06 05:19 |
| oiaohm | No they were not forcing milk on me. Yes it takes all my will power not to cosume the stuff. | Oct 06 05:20 |
| gulag2013 | Well luckily there are more dairy alternatives coming out all the time. | Oct 06 05:20 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: there is a bacteria you can add to milk to break down the lactose. | Oct 06 05:21 |
| gulag2013 | Almond Milk and Coconut milks are really good for you. | Oct 06 05:21 |
| oiaohm | before you drink it. | Oct 06 05:21 |
| oiaohm | basically get milk put bacteria in leave it 2 days in fridge then its safe to drink. | Oct 06 05:21 |
| oiaohm | and particular cheeses don't contain lactose. | Oct 06 05:22 |
| gulag2013 | There is still the puss in dairy man. It's just not normal to be drinking another animals breast milk. We are the only animal doing that. | Oct 06 05:22 |
| oiaohm | Same kind of reason. Ie the yeast type consumed it. | Oct 06 05:22 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: You forgot cats. | Oct 06 05:24 |
| gulag2013 | I don't drink cat milk either, ha ha. I know what you meant | Oct 06 05:25 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: cats drink other amimals milk. | Oct 06 05:25 |
| gulag2013 | You do notice after they are past being kittens they don't do that | Oct 06 05:25 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: even big cats. | Oct 06 05:26 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: even adult cats will. | Oct 06 05:26 |
| gulag2013 | I have never seen a grown cat nursing | Oct 06 05:26 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: not nursing. | Oct 06 05:26 |
| gulag2013 | I will take you word on it. | Oct 06 05:26 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: when they cosume pray big cats willk drink the breast milk out. | Oct 06 05:27 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: its all about extracting as much from a kill possible. | Oct 06 05:27 |
| gulag2013 | Will they eat the whole animal raw, and have the stomach designed for that. | Oct 06 05:27 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: tigers and some big cats love full cream milk as rewards. | Oct 06 05:28 |
| oiaohm | Ie cattle milk. | Oct 06 05:28 |
| oiaohm | What is close to there normal pray. | Oct 06 05:28 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: the difference is volume. | Oct 06 05:28 |
| gulag2013 | A cows normal predator? | Oct 06 05:29 |
| oiaohm | Cats as adults take milk from other creatures as treaks. | Oct 06 05:29 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: big cats. | Oct 06 05:29 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: afica where most of the cattle breeds start the normal creature to kill them is big cats. | Oct 06 05:29 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: so yes part right abotu drinking another animals breast milk in volume is abnormal. But there are other animals that drink other creatures milk in small volumes. | Oct 06 05:31 |
| gulag2013 | Thank you for reminding me, good point I have seen my cats drink milk. | Oct 06 05:32 |
| gulag2013 | Here int the states they have pushed dairy as being vital for our health. That simply isnt' the case. You can get all you need from plants. | Oct 06 05:33 |
| oiaohm | And some of the milk problem is human stupidity. A1 and A2 milk. A1 cattle produce more milk due to a dna alteration. But also is less human compadible. A2 milk cattle produce less milk but is more human compadible. | Oct 06 05:33 |
| oiaohm | Majority of the cattle milk on shelves is A1 milk. | Oct 06 05:33 |
| gulag2013 | I didn't know that. I know they boil it so it really has no nutrition left. | Oct 06 05:34 |
| gulag2013 | They come after Raw milk sellers | Oct 06 05:35 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: wrong on the no nutrition left. | Oct 06 05:36 |
| gulag2013 | What could be left, after heating it at such high temps | Oct 06 05:36 |
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| oiaohm | Hmm just that was odd. | Oct 06 05:59 |
| gulag2013 | You get kicked off the internets ? | Oct 06 06:00 |
| JimmyCarter | GUIs are always doom, noone has avoided it | Oct 06 06:01 |
| JimmyCarter | oops wrong chan | Oct 06 06:01 |
| gulag2013 | What are you saying Mr Carter? | Oct 06 06:01 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: no it was power distrubance of some form. | Oct 06 06:01 |
| gulag2013 | I got you, UPS's are great for that | Oct 06 06:02 |
| JimmyCarter | i was comiserating with someone in #android-dev | Oct 06 06:03 |
| gulag2013 | Oh cool, do you code apps? | Oct 06 06:03 |
| JimmyCarter | Brown outs. Build another power plant. | Oct 06 06:03 |
| JimmyCarter | yup | Oct 06 06:03 |
| JimmyCarter | if you have nexus7 or better you can try my game | Oct 06 06:03 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: I do have a ups. I suspect something overheated. | Oct 06 06:03 |
| gulag2013 | Nice, Android market place seems like the wild west | Oct 06 06:03 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: machine only had been up for 6 months. | Oct 06 06:04 |
| JimmyCarter | yup, its awesome | Oct 06 06:04 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: running around 80/90 percent load. | Oct 06 06:04 |
| JimmyCarter | pretty soon the feds will ruin it | Oct 06 06:04 |
| gulag2013 | oiaohm, that's great I switched to linux and have been up 4 days straight. | Oct 06 06:04 |
| gulag2013 | I wish I could try you game, my nexus 7 needs a new usb connector | Oct 06 06:05 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: with pastrusised milk I have been on the recieving end on non pastraised milk. | Oct 06 06:05 |
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| oiaohm | gulag2013: the bad side there are nice little illness you can get from non pastrusised milk. | Oct 06 06:05 |
| gulag2013 | Yes, I wasn't trying to convince you against dairy, it's a choice I made and my tummy thanks me for it. | Oct 06 06:06 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: funny enough the food value is barely altered by the pastruised and non pastruised. Please note canning of food is the same process. | Oct 06 06:07 |
| gulag2013 | They do some crazy stuff to the milk and cows. Big Got Milk campaign is not an accident. | Oct 06 06:08 |
| gulag2013 | i have had non homogenized milk. I liked that much better. | Oct 06 06:09 |
| oiaohm | non homogenized can be pastruised as well. | Oct 06 06:10 |
| oiaohm | The ammount of mixing and altering of the ratios in milk they do is insane. | Oct 06 06:10 |
| gulag2013 | Now I drink Soy which is really not good I hear either, | Oct 06 06:11 |
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| gulag2013 | They strip the baby cows from the mothers at birth, that first milk is called colostrum I think, it's bottled and sold. The baby boy who knows what happens. | Oct 06 06:13 |
| oiaohm | There are very few soy milks I can stand to drink. | Oct 06 06:18 |
| oiaohm | Most soy milks are too grainy for my mouth. | Oct 06 06:19 |
| gulag2013 | There are hemp, rice, almond, soy, coconut, Have you ever tried coconut ice cream? It's pretty good. | Oct 06 06:20 |
| DaemonFC | almond milk is way better than soy | Oct 06 06:22 |
| DaemonFC | just remember to get the unflavored/unsweetened stuff | Oct 06 06:22 |
| gulag2013 | Yes, I'm trying to watch my sugar, what is your reason for un | Oct 06 06:22 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: soy soft seve icescream avoid like plague. | Oct 06 06:23 |
| oiaohm | coconut is nice. | Oct 06 06:23 |
| DaemonFC | I don't like them dumping in the extra sugar and calories | Oct 06 06:23 |
| gulag2013 | Oh thanks for the tip. I have never tried soy ice cream | Oct 06 06:23 |
| DaemonFC | and I don't like the vanilla flavor | Oct 06 06:23 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: its the softserve form. | Oct 06 06:23 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: its in fact colder than normal icecream. | Oct 06 06:24 |
| gulag2013 | Yes, the vanilla is to strong | Oct 06 06:24 |
| DaemonFC | The unflavored stuff is pretty much exactly like skim milk. I use it in my cereal. | Oct 06 06:24 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: so you know that icescream head ache it gets you with massive nasty. | Oct 06 06:24 |
| gulag2013 | I'm not sure oiaohm, but I have suffered some serious dairy ice cream stomach aches. Because I don't have a governor I just keep eating | Oct 06 06:26 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: Neither do I normally. | Oct 06 06:26 |
| gulag2013 | I like the plain almond milk | Oct 06 06:26 |
| DaemonFC | http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/11/25/ways-on-buying-in-markets.aspx | Oct 06 06:26 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | articles.mercola.com | Supermarkets Influence Your Food Shopping Choices [ http://ur1.ca/fufb3 ] | Oct 06 06:26 |
| DaemonFC | "Displaying a dollar sign on the display decreases the likelihood of you making a purchase, because it's instinctively equated with "cost" or "spending." As Lindstrom says, "Removing the sign helps the consumer sidestep the harsh reality of outstanding bills and longer-term financial concerns."" | Oct 06 06:26 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: soy soft serve is about the only icescream head ache in side one cone. | Oct 06 06:27 |
| DaemonFC | I never really thought about that, but now that I do... | Oct 06 06:27 |
| DaemonFC | Kroger and Walmart don't put a dollar sign on the price tag. | Oct 06 06:27 |
| DaemonFC | They put stickers that say "1.76" or ".99" or "10 for 10". | Oct 06 06:27 |
| DaemonFC | Not "$1.76", "$0.99", or "10 for $10". | Oct 06 06:28 |
| gulag2013 | Huh? I have been blind to that $ either way. Now i'm curious | Oct 06 06:28 |
| DaemonFC | "Larger shopping carts equate to increased spending." | Oct 06 06:28 |
| DaemonFC | Yeah, when our Walmart became a super Walmart, they increased the size of the carts by about 50% | Oct 06 06:28 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: its called cost saving. | Oct 06 06:29 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: yes the ink saved on not printing the dollar sign adds up. | Oct 06 06:29 |
| gulag2013 | I know the supermarket here tries to hide the good coffee that is cheaper on the very bottom shelve. The whole eye level scam | Oct 06 06:29 |
| DaemonFC | gulag2013, Yes. They like to put the little bags of coffee that cost like 50 or 75 cents per ounce at eye level. | Oct 06 06:30 |
| gulag2013 | Ha ha the ink savings as they waste thousands on flyeers | Oct 06 06:30 |
| DaemonFC | They put the bulk coffee that costs less on the bottom two shelves. | Oct 06 06:31 |
| gulag2013 | This was Panera bread company. You have that chain right | Oct 06 06:31 |
| gulag2013 | Anyway they have their brand in the supermarket now for $6 for 12 ounces and it's really good, but they try to hide it. So if it doesn't sell then what. | Oct 06 06:32 |
| DaemonFC | The "gourmet" coffee has gotten ridiculous. | Oct 06 06:33 |
| gulag2013 | What ever happened to honest pound of anything. | Oct 06 06:33 |
| DaemonFC | They have Starbucks for $8.99 for a one pound bag. | Oct 06 06:33 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: look at there flyers they are doing the same stunt. | Oct 06 06:33 |
| DaemonFC | You can get two pounds of store brand for $5.99 | Oct 06 06:33 |
| gulag2013 | Sure they sell 1lbs | Oct 06 06:33 |
| gulag2013 | I'm still a bit snobby when it comes to good coffee | Oct 06 06:34 |
| gulag2013 | Stunt with what | Oct 06 06:34 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: are you the level that roasts your own? | Oct 06 06:34 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: no dollar signs. | Oct 06 06:34 |
| gulag2013 | No, that is a lot of work and you can screw that up if you aren't careful. i will grind beans sometimes. | Oct 06 06:35 |
| gulag2013 | I watched a guy at a place roast, it is really good if you can get some the first week after a roast | Oct 06 06:36 |
| gulag2013 | Anyway, yes they spend a lot of money studying us and monitoring our purchasing habits. Sickening | Oct 06 06:37 |
| gulag2013 | I can't say I blame them, but I place people before money. | Oct 06 06:38 |
| gulag2013 | Mcdonalds and the famous free toy training little kids to be life long costumers | Oct 06 06:40 |
| gulag2013 | Coke and Pepsi feeding millions of gallons of corn sugar, and diabetes | Oct 06 06:41 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: you miss the caffine. | Oct 06 06:41 |
| oiaohm | caffine is not a 100 percent harmless drug. | Oct 06 06:41 |
| gulag2013 | I should be staying off it. I'm slowly drinking more green tea | Oct 06 06:41 |
| oiaohm | caffine is most dangous when combind with suger. | Oct 06 06:42 |
| gulag2013 | I bet, | Oct 06 06:42 |
| gulag2013 | Sugar is some addictive stuff on it's own. I tried switching to stevia , yuck I can't drink that stuff. | Oct 06 06:43 |
| oiaohm | Its like the drinks like redbull and mostor and so on they have caused deaths that have been documented by only minor over consumion. | Oct 06 06:43 |
| oiaohm | Max ammout of redbull you should have a day is 1 can. | Oct 06 06:43 |
| oiaohm | guess how many people don't obey that. | Oct 06 06:43 |
| gulag2013 | I know right, that stuff is dangerous. I have had those monster drinks before. | Oct 06 06:43 |
| oiaohm | yet people drink 2 l of coke. | Oct 06 06:44 |
| oiaohm | Same ammout of active. | Oct 06 06:44 |
| oiaohm | This is why coke is working on suger free versions so much. | Oct 06 06:44 |
| oiaohm | Ie no suger no dead consumers. | Oct 06 06:44 |
| oiaohm | Hopefully. | Oct 06 06:44 |
| gulag2013 | the sugar free stuff is even worse. Why is corn syrup to expensive as a sugar sub now? | Oct 06 06:45 |
| gulag2013 | Aspartame | Oct 06 06:45 |
| oiaohm | stevia is a art to handle correctly. | Oct 06 06:47 |
| gulag2013 | I had a real coke made with sugar cane a few months back . I was very uneasy for over an hour. | Oct 06 06:47 |
| oiaohm | suger cane suger is less adctivive than corn syrup contain froctoos | Oct 06 06:47 |
| oiaohm | corn syrup is not a good replacement for suger. | Oct 06 06:48 |
| gulag2013 | Yes, what they don't tell you is the corn syrup is around .20 cents a pound and the government subsidizes corn. | Oct 06 06:49 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: I have grown stevia plants. | Oct 06 06:49 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: the art with stevia usage is hard because stevia alone has a horid after taste. | Oct 06 06:49 |
| gulag2013 | Oh cool, I wonder if it's good like that, I have had the man made white concentrated powdered stuff. I don't like it | Oct 06 06:50 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: touch of honey remove after taste. | Oct 06 06:50 |
| gulag2013 | I bet, good idea | Oct 06 06:50 |
| oiaohm | Ie use stevia correctly it increases the suger taste. | Oct 06 06:50 |
| oiaohm | But you still need to put one of the real sugers in close to raw form. | Oct 06 06:51 |
| gulag2013 | i have some other thing called monk sugar, it's okay but tastes sort of like stevia | Oct 06 06:51 |
| gulag2013 | Agave is sort of scam | Oct 06 06:52 |
| gulag2013 | I'm going Vegan so I'm supposed to not eat Honey, but that seems a bit extreme. | Oct 06 06:53 |
| oiaohm | http://national.cleanplates.com/health-nutrition/the-new-sugar-monk-fruit/ | Oct 06 06:53 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | national.cleanplates.com | The new "sugar" is...monk fruit! Learn the different types.Healthy Recipes and Sustainable Food [ http://ur1.ca/fufeo ] | Oct 06 06:53 |
| oiaohm | monk fruit is a lot clearner source of natural sweetener. gulag2013 | Oct 06 06:54 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: yes simlar compounds to stevia. No nasty after taste. | Oct 06 06:54 |
| gulag2013 | It's good, not perfect but better | Oct 06 06:55 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: but same thing like stevia a very small does of honey or brown suger is enough to fully fool taste buds. | Oct 06 06:55 |
| oiaohm | Ie brown suger with monk fruit works where it does not with stevia. | Oct 06 06:56 |
| gulag2013 | True, i'm an addict though, i'm trying to just cut that out, but it's super hard. | Oct 06 06:56 |
| oiaohm | Basically 90 to 95 percent of the suger load can be replaced. | Oct 06 06:56 |
| oiaohm | 5 to 10 percent has to remain or your taste buds will pick the difference. | Oct 06 06:57 |
| gulag2013 | I believe that, I was off of sugar for a week and my taste buds appreciated bananas. | Oct 06 06:57 |
| oiaohm | You don't get where you were going. | Oct 06 06:58 |
| oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose bananas are high Fructose. | Oct 06 06:59 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | en.wikipedia.org | Fructose - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | Oct 06 06:59 |
| gulag2013 | Yes, but i'm the camp that the fiber and minerals help the digestion and it's not the same as stripped out fructose. | Oct 06 07:00 |
| gulag2013 | My body is fine on fruit sugars, I could eat a bag of oranges and not crash. | Oct 06 07:01 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: funny enough fructose is more adictive than general suger ie sucrose sugercane. | Oct 06 07:01 |
| oiaohm | oranges are not that high in fructose. | Oct 06 07:01 |
| gulag2013 | I see, makes sense I love bananas. | Oct 06 07:01 |
| oiaohm | fructose in high doese causes crashes like sucrose. | Oct 06 07:01 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: basically you are lining up to swap one addiction for another. | Oct 06 07:02 |
| oiaohm | Moderation. | Oct 06 07:02 |
| gulag2013 | ha ha, yes but it's real food | Oct 06 07:02 |
| oiaohm | I guess you also love corn. | Oct 06 07:03 |
| oiaohm | basically you cut suger and your body gets sneaky. | Oct 06 07:04 |
| oiaohm | And makes you crave the fructose items instead. | Oct 06 07:04 |
| gulag2013 | No, I barely eat corn I think it's all been contaminated by Monsanto. | Oct 06 07:05 |
| oiaohm | http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nutrition/a/fructosedangers.htm | Oct 06 07:05 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | lowcarbdiets.about.com | Fructose - Sweet But Dangerous - The Dangers of Fructose [ http://ur1.ca/fufh0 ] | Oct 06 07:05 |
| gulag2013 | What do they call that negative calories, I don't think it has much nutrition and you body doesn't even digest it. | Oct 06 07:05 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: fructose puts presure on liver. | Oct 06 07:05 |
| gulag2013 | I have read that. | Oct 06 07:06 |
| oiaohm | Yes you avoid one stack of nasty side effect and can walk straight into another. | Oct 06 07:06 |
| oiaohm | Moderation usage of fructose and sucrose is fine. | Oct 06 07:06 |
| oiaohm | Same with other sugers. | Oct 06 07:06 |
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| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 6 08:39:38 2013 | ||
| *Now talking on #techrights | Oct 06 08:39 | |
| *Topic for #techrights is: TechRights.org | Channel #techrights for http://TechRights.org :: please also join channels #boycottnovell-social #techbytes and #boycottnovell | Oct 06 08:39 | |
| *Topic for #techrights set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Sat Jun 9 18:16:19 2012 | Oct 06 08:39 | |
| *Cirrus_Minor (~Cirrus_Mi@unaffiliated/cirrus-minor/x-6868843) has joined #techrights | Oct 06 08:42 | |
| DaemonFC | The guy called me back and offered that 2004 Crown Victoria to me for $2,500. | Oct 06 08:44 |
| DaemonFC | I'm not sure I really want to get in on that though. | Oct 06 08:44 |
| DaemonFC | Right off the bat, I'd have an ABS sensor to replace, an exhaust leak to fix, a transmission flush, and a blend motor issue for the heat/air conditioning system that would probably require them to take the dash apart. :P | Oct 06 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | So that's some serious money. | Oct 06 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | Then it somehow got a chunk taken out of the front grill. | Oct 06 08:46 |
| DaemonFC | So I'd need to find a replacement grill. | Oct 06 08:46 |
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| iophk | http://torrentfreak.com/google-now-taking-down-eight-pirate-links-every-single-second-131005/ | Oct 06 09:18 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | torrentfreak.com | Google Now Taking Down Eight โPirateโ Links Every Single Second | TorrentFreak [ http://ur1.ca/fug5m ] | Oct 06 09:18 |
| iophk | "If Nokia had kept MeeGo, Jolla wouldn't exist" | Oct 06 09:22 |
| iophk | http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/finland-and-nokia-an-affair-to-remember/2/ | Oct 06 09:22 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | arstechnica.com | Finland and Nokia: An affair to remember | Ars Technica [ http://ur1.ca/fug64 ] | Oct 06 09:22 |
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| schestowitz_bed2 | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/3134661 | Oct 06 10:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Is Slackware, The Oldest Remaining Linux Distribution, Right For You? http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/is-slackware-the-oldest-remaining-linux-distribution-right-for-you/ #slackware #gnu #linux | Oct 06 10:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> www.makeuseof.com | Is Slackware, The Oldest Remaining Linux Distribution, Right For You? [ http://ur1.ca/ftyfy ] | Oct 06 10:24 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | "the author gets rightly put in his place for such a superficial take on Slackware" | Oct 06 10:24 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/2825073 | Oct 06 10:25 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: OK, I guess I got #Diaspora installed and running on the server side, need SSL certificate to take it live | Oct 06 10:25 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | "Is this up and running yet?" | Oct 06 10:25 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | No, I put that aside foir now Plenty of news to catch up with first, it's of higher priority. | Oct 06 10:26 |
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| schestowitz_bed2 | https://www.joindiaspora.com/posts/3144074 | Oct 06 10:52 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.joindiaspora.com | ## Hate the "Sign in to Chrome" spyware feature of Chrome? [ http://ur1.ca/fugr0 ] | Oct 06 10:52 |
| gulag2013 | I'm going to try this nice post | Oct 06 11:02 |
| DaemonFC | http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/nouveau/2013-September/014480.html | Oct 06 11:07 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | lists.freedesktop.org | [Nouveau] offer to help, DCB [ http://ur1.ca/folf8 ] | Oct 06 11:07 |
| DaemonFC | Nvidia says they will be releasing some open documentation of their cards. | Oct 06 11:07 |
| JimmyCarter | you can trust google unless theyre subpoenaed or national security lettered, or whatever the hip feds bully with these days | Oct 06 11:08 |
| DaemonFC | http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/nouveau/2013-September/014497.html | Oct 06 11:10 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | lists.freedesktop.org | [Nouveau] offer to help, DCB | Oct 06 11:10 |
| DaemonFC | "While I'm personally one of the guys who wouldn't like to see a binary | Oct 06 11:10 |
| DaemonFC | blob in nouveau, no matter the terms, I've read the firmware blobs | Oct 06 11:10 |
| DaemonFC | decompilation and I'm quite concerned about possible security implications." | Oct 06 11:10 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Oct 06 11:10 |
| DaemonFC | Nvidia doesn't care about security. They only care about performance. Their driver also cheats. It tries to detect what you're running and apply hacks to speed up the frame rate. | Oct 06 11:11 |
| DaemonFC | http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/nouveau/2013-September/014584.html | Oct 06 11:11 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | lists.freedesktop.org | [Nouveau] offer to help, DCB [ http://ur1.ca/fugub ] | Oct 06 11:11 |
| DaemonFC | "I need to retract my suggestion of Nouveau using NVIDIA's | Oct 06 11:12 |
| DaemonFC | binary-only microcode, at least until we get to a point where NVIDIA | Oct 06 11:12 |
| DaemonFC | has earned some trust from Nouveau in our microcode implementations." | Oct 06 11:12 |
| JimmyCarter | do they care about security performance ? ^^ | Oct 06 11:12 |
| DaemonFC | You don't earn trust by releasing binary-only firmware. | Oct 06 11:12 |
| DaemonFC | The only purpose of binary-only firmware is to hide things. | Oct 06 11:12 |
| DaemonFC | JimmyCarter, I've lost count of the number of times that Nvidia's driver has caused critical security issues. They also don't bother to patch them until someone releases a program that actually demonstrates how to exploit their driver. | Oct 06 11:13 |
| JimmyCarter | pretty soon someone will hack them with their exploits for their own software like adobe | Oct 06 11:14 |
| DaemonFC | Proprietary firmware in an otherwise open driver is better than an entirely proprietary driver. | Oct 06 11:14 |
| DaemonFC | That's the way AMD decided to go with their open source driver. | Oct 06 11:14 |
| gulag2013 | I'm naive, but why play with Nvidia at all ? | Oct 06 11:14 |
| JimmyCarter | some people need tflops | Oct 06 11:15 |
| DaemonFC | Better hardware than AMD, but the open driver is not very useful. | Oct 06 11:15 |
| DaemonFC | So if you use Nvidia, you're going to be stuck with the proprietary driver. | Oct 06 11:15 |
| DaemonFC | The Nouveau driver works with my graphics card, but it is painfully slow. | Oct 06 11:16 |
| DaemonFC | On really old Nvidia hardware, it sometimes works OK compared with the proprietary driver. | Oct 06 11:17 |
| DaemonFC | I think the biggest practical concern right now with Nvidia's proprietary driver is that they haven't commented on how well they plan to support Wayland or Mir. | Oct 06 11:18 |
| DaemonFC | http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/10/ubuntus-controversial-mir-window-system-wont-ship-with-13-10-desktop/ | Oct 06 11:21 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | arstechnica.com | Ubuntuโs controversial Mir window system wonโt ship with 13.10 desktop | Ars Technica [ http://ur1.ca/fugvy ] | Oct 06 11:21 |
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| DaemonFC | Ubuntu is conducting their negotiations with Nvidia and AMD regarding Mir support behind closed doors. | Oct 06 11:22 |
| gulag2013 | Hmm, All I know about Mir is that it is replacing X11 windows something. How will Mir improve the performance? | Oct 06 11:25 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think it will. | Oct 06 11:26 |
| gulag2013 | I don't understand Ubuntu's intentions with most of what they are doing. | Oct 06 11:27 |
| DaemonFC | The justification for replacing X in both Wayland and Mir's case is mostly that X does a lot of undesirable things that can't easily be fixed. | Oct 06 11:27 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: X11 is crap. | Oct 06 11:35 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: there is even talk of X12 once Wayland and Mir is in place. | Oct 06 11:35 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: List of undesirable is X11 secuirty does not work. Lets take screen savers they are repsonsable for handing non protected userpassword. | Oct 06 11:36 |
| gulag2013 | I don't know, they can do what ever they wish. There was a time I was excited but they flip flop in so many directions. I | Oct 06 11:36 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: what happens if the screensaver crashes on other systems? | Oct 06 11:37 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: history of X11 is horble. | Oct 06 11:37 |
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| oiaohm | MinceR: under Linux the desktop unlocks. | Oct 06 11:38 |
| MinceR | _other systems_ | Oct 06 11:38 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: Windows password dialog is handled by the login manager. | Oct 06 11:38 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: on the screensaver. | Oct 06 11:38 |
| MinceR | so, what if that crashes? | Oct 06 11:38 |
| oiaohm | If login manager crashes on windows you user session is terminated. | Oct 06 11:39 |
| MinceR | (as for protecting passwords, there's this >> http://www.openwall.com/tcb/ _ | Oct 06 11:39 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.openwall.com | tcb - the alternative to /etc/shadow | Oct 06 11:39 |
| MinceR | s/_/)/ | Oct 06 11:39 |
| MinceR | ic | Oct 06 11:39 |
| oiaohm | Basically failure should not be access. | Oct 06 11:39 |
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| oiaohm | Some bugs Windows and Linux has. | Oct 06 11:42 |
| oiaohm | Like applications able to snoop on other applications windows without requiring permission. | Oct 06 11:42 |
| oiaohm | High secuirty OS's don't tollerate this. | Oct 06 11:43 |
| gulag2013 | Hmm sounds like Explorer and that knowing what you are typing in other windows. | Oct 06 11:43 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: one of the key differences of Mir and Wayland is no snooping on other applications without permission from the program controlling the screen output. | Oct 06 11:46 |
| oiaohm | Yep programs by default can only screenshot their own windows. | Oct 06 11:46 |
| gulag2013 | So that is bug in both Linux and Windows? | Oct 06 11:47 |
| oiaohm | Yep | Oct 06 11:47 |
| oiaohm | Fedora is dropping userspace X11 drivers. Or I am a super big security flaw. | Oct 06 11:47 |
| oiaohm | X11 userspace drivers require access to /dev/mem that is basically raw access to the complete system memory. | Oct 06 11:48 |
| gulag2013 | In what version, I want to test Fedora really soon | Oct 06 11:48 |
| oiaohm | userspace drivers are very old things gulag2013 | Oct 06 11:48 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: like you will not be attempting to use like s3 video cards right. | Oct 06 11:48 |
| gulag2013 | I really don't think so.. What is S3? | Oct 06 11:49 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: old type of video card | Oct 06 11:49 |
| oiaohm | verry old type of video car. | Oct 06 11:49 |
| oiaohm | card | Oct 06 11:49 |
| gulag2013 | Oh, This laptop is three years old, I highly doubt it. | Oct 06 11:50 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: no way in hell its in there. | Oct 06 11:51 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: we are talking almost 10 years ago was the last time they were made. | Oct 06 11:51 |
| gulag2013 | Ha ha, well I still plan on testing Fedora. I was thinking userspaces was Workspaces, I turned that of I don't use it. | Oct 06 11:53 |
| oiaohm | X11 first was design to be fully userspace. | Oct 06 11:54 |
| oiaohm | Nice big security holes. | Oct 06 11:54 |
| oiaohm | Then it evolved to a little kernel assisted but poorly done. | Oct 06 11:55 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo_jZYDzek8 This is a good watch for even just a few minor generations back in X11 drivers issues. | Oct 06 11:56 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.youtube.com | XDC2013: David Herrmann - DRM Security - YouTube [ http://ur1.ca/fuh2e ] | Oct 06 11:56 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: basically dri2 the last generation of X11 drivers for Linux has to be deprecated because it security flawed. | Oct 06 11:57 |
| gulag2013 | Okay, great I can do videos. This topic is a little hard for me to follow. A little sad for me, I was thinking Linux was more secure. | Oct 06 11:59 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: to be true Linux is more secure than Windows but that is serousally not hard. | Oct 06 12:00 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: but compared to high rated secuirty OS's Linux is nothing. | Oct 06 12:01 |
| oiaohm | For desktop. | Oct 06 12:01 |
| gulag2013 | Yes, lol sounds like windows is a very low bar | Oct 06 12:01 |
| MinceR | it is | Oct 06 12:01 |
| MinceR | and what about macos? | Oct 06 12:01 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: macos for desktop is techically a head of Linux. | Oct 06 12:02 |
| gulag2013 | I read they just sneak in patches, so who knows the truth | Oct 06 12:02 |
| oiaohm | Please note the for desktop bit. | Oct 06 12:02 |
| oiaohm | Linux on server is a different game. Its the graphical side of Linux that has been insanely weak. | Oct 06 12:02 |
| oiaohm | the work on wayland really was a sign that people were serousally looking at the Linux desktop. | Oct 06 12:03 |
| oiaohm | And worked out that X11 could not be fixed. | Oct 06 12:03 |
| gulag2013 | Windows Metrofied Server 2012. Why Why Why | Oct 06 12:03 |
| MinceR | why does it exist or why do people use it? :> | Oct 06 12:04 |
| gulag2013 | Why would you add tiles to it | Oct 06 12:04 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: in my experience, linux has been ahead of osx graphically in quite a number of ways for quite some time-- and the ogl limitations of open source drivers were more of an issue in osx last I checked | Oct 06 12:04 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: secuirty wise OS X has been ahead. | Oct 06 12:05 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: graphical security? | Oct 06 12:05 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: mostly because OS X did the sane thing and not use X11 | Oct 06 12:05 |
| prurigro | how so? | Oct 06 12:05 |
| MinceR | what they did is not sane | Oct 06 12:06 |
| oiaohm | X11 basically has no graphical secruity. | Oct 06 12:06 |
| MinceR | the gui is supposed to be a selling point yet it can't maximize windows properly and it can't handle virtual desktops properly | Oct 06 12:06 |
| MinceR | the global menu bar is a usability failure | Oct 06 12:06 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: from a userablity point of view I would agree OS X is not sane. | Oct 06 12:06 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: in regards to what? display servers from other local display servers? | Oct 06 12:06 |
| MinceR | i thought so :) | Oct 06 12:06 |
| gulag2013 | The maximizing windows on OSX bugs me, | Oct 06 12:07 |
| prurigro | I got a mac a while back to see what the deal was and there were issues I was running into that I researched and found were essentially "problems with the osx ogl implementation" and that osx was not for games | Oct 06 12:07 |
| prurigro | but that's not really the topic | Oct 06 12:07 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: Like X11 does not include a proper screensaver handling. | Oct 06 12:07 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: does not include proper memory protections. | Oct 06 12:08 |
| gulag2013 | Ha ha, is that why I have to use caffeine to keep my videos playing | Oct 06 12:08 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: in fact for X11 to operate with other X11 applications you cannot setup secreen secuiryt. | Oct 06 12:08 |
| prurigro | should the display server be responsible for screensavers? memory protection I'll give you on shared servers and stuff, but you were talking about the desktop | Oct 06 12:08 |
| prurigro | well its host based right | Oct 06 12:08 |
| prurigro | so all or nothing at the localhost level | Oct 06 12:09 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: to be correct login manager should be in charge of screensaver in a lot of ways. | Oct 06 12:09 |
| MinceR | it doesn't have to be the login manager | Oct 06 12:09 |
| oiaohm | systemd-logind for wayland can run screensaver as independant instance. | Oct 06 12:09 |
| oiaohm | So screensaver dies and you have access to nothing. | Oct 06 12:10 |
| prurigro | gdm does a decent job these days I've found | Oct 06 12:10 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: exactly why is a login manager graphical. | Oct 06 12:10 |
| prurigro | word, but you still don't think this is secure enough? | Oct 06 12:10 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: you want the least possible running as root. | Oct 06 12:10 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Oct 06 12:11 |
| oiaohm | remember gdm is infact running as root. | Oct 06 12:11 |
| DaemonFC | watching Malcolm in the Middle | Oct 06 12:11 |
| DaemonFC | "They have advanced textbooks, and good teachers, and all sorts of things they don't want to waste on normal kids." | Oct 06 12:11 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: yeah, though if noone can remotely connect to gdm it shouldn't be an issue | Oct 06 12:11 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: no you are forgeting shared computers. | Oct 06 12:12 |
| oiaohm | Like in libraries. | Oct 06 12:12 |
| prurigro | well I wouldn't exactly define that as a desktop | Oct 06 12:12 |
| DaemonFC | I hated public school. I had to go there for a couple of years and felt like I was rotting. | Oct 06 12:12 |
| prurigro | those are more along the lines of terminals, in my experience | Oct 06 12:12 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: they can still be full desktop computers. | Oct 06 12:12 |
| oiaohm | Basically the complete design of X11 is just flawed all over the place. | Oct 06 12:13 |
| DaemonFC | When I went back to private school, I ended up finishing three years worth of material in a year and finishing high school at the age of 15. | Oct 06 12:13 |
| oiaohm | Like GDM is a hack. | Oct 06 12:13 |
| prurigro | sure, but you wouldn't have people staying logged in while others use them | Oct 06 12:13 |
| prurigro | in library | Oct 06 12:13 |
| prurigro | ies* | Oct 06 12:13 |
| DaemonFC | I've always been one to "rip the bandaid off". | Oct 06 12:13 |
| prurigro | if they were desktops | Oct 06 12:13 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: x11 was desing as a single user interface. | Oct 06 12:13 |
| DaemonFC | When something is unpleasant, I push myself to just get it over with. | Oct 06 12:13 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: instead of redesign it properly. | Oct 06 12:13 |
| oiaohm | items like GDM were invented. | Oct 06 12:13 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: remember running as root you can login to any user. | Oct 06 12:14 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: X11 came along when the idea of multiple people using the same computer (that wasn't a terminal) wasn't really feasible | Oct 06 12:14 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: no the first version of X11 was single user. | Oct 06 12:14 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: you don't think gdm drops permissions as soon as its launched? | Oct 06 12:14 |
| oiaohm | the multi user bit was added latter. | Oct 06 12:14 |
| DaemonFC | X11 is only slightly older than I am. | Oct 06 12:15 |
| DaemonFC | It hasn't aged well. | Oct 06 12:15 |
| prurigro | yeah, that's what I was saying-- it's not even really multiuser now-- just separate servers | Oct 06 12:15 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: it cannot because there was no background server to change from user to user. | Oct 06 12:15 |
| prurigro | what do you mean? | Oct 06 12:16 |
| MinceR | if it's the first version, it's X1, not X11 :> | Oct 06 12:16 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: no X11 was design as a extendable protocol. | Oct 06 12:17 |
| DaemonFC | "The first truly modular disaster." | Oct 06 12:17 |
| prurigro | are we on X11R7 yet? :) | Oct 06 12:17 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: display managers or like KDM/GDM. start the X11 server that is the user session. | Oct 06 12:17 |
| MinceR | i seem to remember that x.org is now X11R7 or something. | Oct 06 12:18 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: and that X11 server still runs as root. | Oct 06 12:18 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: wayland is infact design never to be running as root. | Oct 06 12:18 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: all root operations are pushed back to the logind or equal. | Oct 06 12:18 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: what do you suppose the gdm user and groups are on my computer for then? | Oct 06 12:18 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: that allows attempted steping down. | Oct 06 12:19 |
| prurigro | I'm pretty sure that's what the xserver would be run under | Oct 06 12:19 |
| prurigro | like, it doesn't need root to run X | Oct 06 12:19 |
| oiaohm | Only recent X11 with DRI2 got the means to run without root a little. | Oct 06 12:20 |
| prurigro | weird, my system shows gdm running "systemd" | Oct 06 12:21 |
| oiaohm | systemd places other wrappers around gdm. | Oct 06 12:21 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.amazon.com/forum/politics/ref=cm_cd_tfp_ef_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx1S3QSZRUL93V8&cdThread=Tx1X8DTHZCC4Y2L | Oct 06 12:21 |
| prurigro | hrm? what do you mean the means to run without root? | Oct 06 12:21 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.amazon.com | Amazon.com: Customer Discussions: US Military Will Use Drones to Spy on North Korea [ http://ur1.ca/fuh6z ] | Oct 06 12:21 |
| DaemonFC | ZOMG PINK PONIES says: | Oct 06 12:21 |
| DaemonFC | "Beginning next spring, the Air Force will fly several drones near North Korean borders to gather intelligence data on the reclusive country, where an estimated 24 million people live under oppression, sealed off from the rest of the world." | Oct 06 12:21 |
| DaemonFC | pfft.... | Oct 06 12:21 |
| DaemonFC | They've been doing that in a country of 300 million oppressed people that are increasingly sealed off from the rest of the world for over ten years. | Oct 06 12:21 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Oct 06 12:21 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: only with DRI2+ drivers. | Oct 06 12:21 |
| prurigro | X has always been able to run without root-- we were talking about *dms | Oct 06 12:21 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: to interface with screen X11 has always required root. | Oct 06 12:22 |
| oiaohm | Until dri2 | Oct 06 12:22 |
| prurigro | what about when you logged in as your user and ran "startx"? | Oct 06 12:22 |
| oiaohm | Then dri2 buffer handling was stuffed up and guessable. | Oct 06 12:22 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: that is a suid bitted as root | Oct 06 12:22 |
| prurigro | and X too? | Oct 06 12:23 |
| prurigro | it isn't on my machine | Oct 06 12:23 |
| prurigro | ahh, xorg is tho | Oct 06 12:23 |
| prurigro | well there ya go | Oct 06 12:24 |
| prurigro | learned something new :) | Oct 06 12:24 |
| oiaohm | Yep. | Oct 06 12:25 |
| oiaohm | Or in otherwords the first secuirty hole we want by by. | Oct 06 12:26 |
| prurigro | on a similar note, wayland is in serious need of full desktop support (which I hear gnome 3.10 is almost able to deliver now), but it worked quite nicely last I tested | Oct 06 12:26 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: gets worse when you start running more than 1 x11 session on a single video card and switching between them. | Oct 06 12:26 |
| brendyn | man, anyone know how to do javascript bullshit to download things begind jplayer buttons and ajax pages? | Oct 06 12:26 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: like with DRI2 and beffer only one set off buffers on the video card. | Oct 06 12:27 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: so lets play the magic dance of not step on each other. | Oct 06 12:27 |
| oiaohm | DRI3 is bring render nodes and other isolation things. | Oct 06 12:27 |
| oiaohm | Well and truely overdue. | Oct 06 12:27 |
| prurigro | brendyn: ajax will be exposed to everything that looks at the source once the page loads it (view source simply chooses to give ou the pre-ajax version, so grab developer tools or maybe it was firebug to view the newer sources) | Oct 06 12:28 |
| prurigro | brendyn: and then I think jplayer just has you drop the filename into its args iirc | Oct 06 12:28 |
| brendyn | prurigro: I need to do it systematically with tens of thousands of files on thousands of pages | Oct 06 12:29 |
| *brendyn promises he is up to no good | Oct 06 12:29 | |
| prurigro | oiaohm: word, yeah, I definitely had points back in the day where offscreens from one session were accidentally pasted into refreshing images on another display server session-- xgl helped a lot there | Oct 06 12:29 |
| prurigro | brendyn: hmm, I woner if wget or curl can trigger ajax... | Oct 06 12:29 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: the possiblity todo that is still in all current X11 servers. | Oct 06 12:29 |
| brendyn | i searched google but it really didnt look promising | Oct 06 12:30 |
| brendyn | i could not find much interesting in inspect element | Oct 06 12:30 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: basically X11 is a huge stuffed up mess. | Oct 06 12:30 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: this is why X12 is being considered after wayland. For a new remote X11 protocal with a huge stack of legacy stupidity killed. | Oct 06 12:30 |
| prurigro | brendyn: maybe use firebug to check what arguments are triggering the ajax to load new stuff, and then emulate that input using curl? | Oct 06 12:31 |
| brendyn | hmmm maybe, but its alright beyond my newby skills | Oct 06 12:31 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: ontop of wayland or as a more use-specific platform now that the desktop people won't be complaining? | Oct 06 12:32 |
| prurigro | brendyn: that's how you learn though! | Oct 06 12:32 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: wayland will be able to do remote very well using rendernodes and other things to send 3d grade graphics by VNC or RDP. | Oct 06 12:32 |
| brendyn | Oh wow, you're completely right. I had to click to expand (yet another) html div thingy before I could see the direct link | Oct 06 12:33 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: X12 will be attempt to get a more traffic compact protocol. | Oct 06 12:33 |
| brendyn | However, this still leaves the challange of making wget do it | Oct 06 12:33 |
| brendyn | I was thinking that It could be possible with some kind of javascript bookmarklet, but i dont even know javascript | Oct 06 12:33 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: oh sick-- that's actually a major fallback in the usability dept for X11; RDP style drawing, where a compressed image isn't what's required to be sent | Oct 06 12:34 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: RDP and VNC are both compressed image sends. | Oct 06 12:34 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: virtualgl prototype with X11 was also compressed image send but it did not work well because it was hacking the local video card drivers to work. | Oct 06 12:35 |
| brendyn | If i copy paste the link to wget I can download it, and i dont even need to use my login details | Oct 06 12:35 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: basically remote 3d acceated will become normal. | Oct 06 12:35 |
| prurigro | brendyn: I feel like you might have better luck with curl or something where you're speaking to the server rather than something attempting to download the html presented... though following links would be far less energy than curl | Oct 06 12:35 |
| brendyn | but traversing the page to get the link in the first place... :/ | Oct 06 12:35 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: X11 remote advantage is the means to send to client end what area of screen are of intest to applications. | Oct 06 12:36 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: so clicking else were does not result in network traffic that much. | Oct 06 12:36 |
| brendyn | hmm ok, but where to start. | Oct 06 12:36 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: word, yeah, that part I like too-- surely wayland could do that though since the whole 3d thing places each screen in a separate offscreen | Oct 06 12:37 |
| prurigro | brendyn: I've done something similar by using sqlite to create a temporary database of links each time it happens upon one (with an if statement checking it's in the domain I want checked), not adding duplicaes, and then going through one by one each time it gets to the end of the previous | Oct 06 12:38 |
| brendyn | holy shit | Oct 06 12:38 |
| brendyn | what about http://ubuntuincident.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/scraping-ajax-web-pages/ | Oct 06 12:39 |
| prurigro | used that to parse a giant intranet site and extract relevant information in the header and footer of each :) | Oct 06 12:39 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | ubuntuincident.wordpress.com | Scraping AJAX web pages (Part 1) | The Ubuntu Incident [ http://ur1.ca/fuh9q ] | Oct 06 12:39 |
| brendyn | second option uses webkit | Oct 06 12:39 |
| prurigro | ohh yeah, I forgot there was a cli version of webkit | Oct 06 12:39 |
| brendyn | reckon it would be fruitful to try it? | Oct 06 12:40 |
| prurigro | odds of getting it to easily give you the resulting ajax page are higher, so I'd say yes-- even if you do then have to do something fancy for a recursive scan | Oct 06 12:40 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: X12 also will move applications off screens into independant zones. So different handling to share buffers. | Oct 06 12:41 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: even when rendering 2d you mean? | Oct 06 12:41 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: even for 2d rendering. | Oct 06 12:41 |
| prurigro | (since it already does this sans memory protection in 3d) | Oct 06 12:41 |
| prurigro | interesting | Oct 06 12:41 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: you know X11 magic stuff. | Oct 06 12:41 |
| brendyn | the website has a page full of normal html links. i follow those, and then there are 5 ajax tabs that contain different collections of text and jplayer buttons that i need to download | Oct 06 12:41 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: this is really stupid. Over network X11 sends magic ID as plain text. | Oct 06 12:42 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: X11 without ssh wrapping is open to attack so many ways its not funny. | Oct 06 12:42 |
| prurigro | brendyn: you're going for the text too eh? I guess you could just get a list of links to parse the first time, then go through and wget each of those directly with a second script, as an alternative (assuming links aren't generated for the session) | Oct 06 12:43 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: Like at Univistory I use to be able to snoop on anyones screen because it was not encrypted. | Oct 06 12:43 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: yes X11 default spec says not encrypted. | Oct 06 12:43 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: they're probably relying on the networking solution being used to protect it no? like ssh? | Oct 06 12:43 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: what happens if you are logged into the same source matching. | Oct 06 12:44 |
| prurigro | university shoulda setup their vpn with encryption | Oct 06 12:44 |
| prurigro | it should be end to end | Oct 06 12:44 |
| prurigro | a different terminal shell shouldn't even be able to see it | Oct 06 12:44 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: but its not ssh wrapping. | Oct 06 12:44 |
| prurigro | yeah, but their vpn | Oct 06 12:44 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: same with vpn from same host. | Oct 06 12:44 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: ie traffic snooping same end. | Oct 06 12:44 |
| prurigro | wouldn't each terminal be a separate end point? | Oct 06 12:45 |
| oiaohm | Encrypted protocols beat VPN. | Oct 06 12:45 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: histroically no. | Oct 06 12:45 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: because cgroup network splitting is only recent invention and basically not used. | Oct 06 12:46 |
| prurigro | I'm a firm believer that the bottom network layer should be encrypted | Oct 06 12:46 |
| oiaohm | I am a firm believer that what should be encrypted should be encrypted when it enters the network stack anywhere. | Oct 06 12:46 |
| prurigro | word, cjdns would work, though that's too recent to be the solution used in schools | Oct 06 12:46 |
| prurigro | I actually like the idea of TRESOR on that note | Oct 06 12:47 |
| prurigro | though I don't feel like maintaining my own kernel fork of Arch's | Oct 06 12:47 |
| prurigro | tresor + cjdns would be encrypted for the local machine before entering the network stack, and then encrypted the moment it does thanks to cjdns | Oct 06 12:48 |
| prurigro | (the latter being encrypted for the destination) | Oct 06 12:49 |
| prurigro | I suppose at that point the only potential hole would be someone on the local machine with root access tcpdumping | Oct 06 12:49 |
| brendyn | I think there are latency critical tasks in various areas of science etc, such that mandatory encryption screws with that a bit | Oct 06 12:50 |
| prurigro | which would be solved by X encrypting the stream, true | Oct 06 12:50 |
| prurigro | I woudln't really trust a remote X session to be real time.. haha | Oct 06 12:50 |
| prurigro | also, the spec says no encryption is mandatory; oiaohm wasn't suggesting to make encryption mandatory, just remove the "you can't do that" | Oct 06 12:51 |
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| oiaohm | prurigro: exactly encryption should be optional | Oct 06 12:51 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: not forbin | Oct 06 12:52 |
| prurigro | yeah- if people want every layer of their computer encrypted they should be able to | Oct 06 12:52 |
| brendyn | if network providers encrypt, you have no choice but to deal with the consequences | Oct 06 12:52 |
| prurigro | and ideally, people could use a encryption type of their choice | Oct 06 12:52 |
| oiaohm | allowing tcpdumping should not magically destroy eveyrone privacy. | Oct 06 12:52 |
| prurigro | true | Oct 06 12:53 |
| oiaohm | Thinking you might need to tcpdump to debug issues. | Oct 06 12:53 |
| prurigro | course, you want password + pub/priv key crypto if you wanna be post-quantum, so hopefully they'd include that | Oct 06 12:53 |
| prurigro | no sense in encrypting if your packets can be opened up in a couple years | Oct 06 12:54 |
| prurigro | well, a sense, but less of one than keeping your info secure for the foreseeable future | Oct 06 12:54 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: couple of years might be enough secuirty. | Oct 06 12:55 |
| oiaohm | Like to prevent insider trading. | Oct 06 12:55 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: encrypted is a question of are the objectives. Not all encryption has to have a long life. | Oct 06 12:58 |
| prurigro | true, it depends what you're protecting eh | Oct 06 13:02 |
| *rysiek|pl is now known as ysio|pl | Oct 06 13:02 | |
| prurigro | I'd rather not need to think how long I need something hidden for (if at all) for some more generic things like remote desktop though | Oct 06 13:03 |
| brendyn | computers are probably the most frustrating thing in the universe | Oct 06 13:12 |
| DaemonFC | What the hell is up with edmunds.com? | Oct 06 13:12 |
| prurigro | s/frustrating/awesome | Oct 06 13:13 |
| DaemonFC | I went to look at the reliability rating for the Ford Freestar, and it lists "no major problems". | Oct 06 13:13 |
| DaemonFC | But it seems like anyone that has actually owned one reports that the transmission burns out about every 60,000 miles and they have other issues as well. | Oct 06 13:13 |
| DaemonFC | The engine seems to be the only good thing on the van (figures, since it's the same one they put on the F-150). | Oct 06 13:14 |
| iophk | http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-founder-asks-danish-authorities-to-drop-hacking-case-131006/ | Oct 06 13:14 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | torrentfreak.com | Pirate Bay Founder Asks Danish Authorities to Drop Hacking Case | TorrentFreak [ http://ur1.ca/fuhgq ] | Oct 06 13:14 |
| DaemonFC | Ford recalled a few hundred thousand of them to fix the transmission issue, but people that were paying to have the transmission repaired before the recall were paying about $2,800 for a rebuild. | Oct 06 13:15 |
| iophk | โIt would be remarkable if the Danes bring Gottfrid to court in spite of the Swedish judgment. It would mean, in principle, that one country after another could do this to him despite the acquittal,โ | Oct 06 13:15 |
| DaemonFC | As far as I can tell, Ford didn't recall the one that I was looking at, but I still don't want to risk any of my money on it. | Oct 06 13:15 |
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| brendyn | prurigro: i wonder if i could do it with emacs lol by loading the page to it, opening the js bullshit and then using macros to eat up the html and download stuff | Oct 06 13:39 |
| prurigro | brendyn: why on earth would you use emacs for that? haha, grep and sed should be plenty | Oct 06 13:40 |
| brendyn | because emacs can do everything | Oct 06 13:40 |
| brendyn | im still trying to figure out how to just open the god damn page | Oct 06 13:40 |
| prurigro | yeah, but grep and sed can be loaded into a script | Oct 06 13:40 |
| prurigro | once you get that, if you can output the text to your screen you're set | Oct 06 13:41 |
| brendyn | If I can actually get the generated html, then everything is downhill from there | Oct 06 13:41 |
| prurigro | grep -o -e is your friend (-o only returns the part that matches and -e is for regex) | Oct 06 13:41 |
| brendyn | ah didnt know that | Oct 06 13:41 |
| prurigro | so like \"http:\/\/domain[^\"]*\" or something, then snip the quotes with sed | Oct 06 13:42 |
| prurigro | or cut | Oct 06 13:42 |
| brendyn | I'll do that later. Currently I just want to figure out how to get through the javascript | Oct 06 13:42 |
| brendyn | ive managed to log in to the site with wget and save cookies | Oct 06 13:42 |
| prurigro | lol, not sure wget can handle ajax tho-- if you're not using that webkit thing | Oct 06 13:43 |
| brendyn | the internet tells me i cant do it | Oct 06 13:43 |
| prurigro | oh well, I'd trust the internet then | Oct 06 13:43 |
| brendyn | ;( | Oct 06 13:43 |
| brendyn | not sure how to use webkit | Oct 06 13:43 |
| brendyn | i wonder can i get to a login site with that too | Oct 06 13:43 |
| prurigro | you can almost definitely pass parameters | Oct 06 13:44 |
| prurigro | its webkit | Oct 06 13:44 |
| brendyn | how does one click an imaginary button :) | Oct 06 13:45 |
| brendyn | sorry but i just really fucking hate solving these problems so i have to ask for lots of help | Oct 06 13:47 |
| prurigro | brendyn: the button likely triggers a function or post that you can script | Oct 06 13:56 |
| brendyn | yeah | Oct 06 14:00 |
| brendyn | im trying to figure out logging to the site with phantomjs | Oct 06 14:00 |
| brendyn | anyway i have to sleep so ill try it later | Oct 06 14:04 |
| brendyn | thanks | Oct 06 14:04 |
| prurigro | haha good luck! | Oct 06 14:06 |
| prurigro | ciao | Oct 06 14:06 |
| iophk | http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/public-sector/2013/10/uk-debuts-first-open-standard.html | Oct 06 14:13 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.computerweekly.com | UK debuts first open standards with fanfare of kazoos - Public Sector IT [ http://ur1.ca/fuhyy ] | Oct 06 14:13 |
| iophk | "The ICT Strategy said document formats would be in the first tranche of compulsory open standards." | Oct 06 14:16 |
| iophk | but how far did they really get? | Oct 06 14:16 |
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| DaemonFC | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiCAJ8ULnaI | Oct 06 15:02 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.youtube.com | Jiffy Lube Scam Caught on Tape! - YouTube [ http://ur1.ca/fui6v ] | Oct 06 15:02 |
| DaemonFC | https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_626867&feature=iv&src_vid=wiCAJ8ULnaI&v=Pf6KY6rrqYU | Oct 06 15:12 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.youtube.com | Jiffy Lube still scamming customers! - YouTube [ http://ur1.ca/fui8i ] | Oct 06 15:12 |
| DaemonFC | Nobody should do an "engine flush". | Oct 06 15:12 |
| DaemonFC | ever | Oct 06 15:12 |
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| *Topic for #techrights set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Sat Jun 9 18:16:19 2012 | Oct 06 18:16 | |
| Sosumi | hum, George Galloway, the guy that was for the "Arab Spring" even through it was just another CIA masterminded event | Oct 06 18:44 |
| Sosumi | to kick "ditactors" who weren't playing ball with the US | Oct 06 18:44 |
| Sosumi | so now, thx to the arab spring we have Libya turned into safe heaven for Al-CIAeda, | Oct 06 18:46 |
| qu1j0t3 | right, we should certainly blame GG for that. | Oct 06 18:46 |
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| Sosumi | Tunisia into a meet the new boss, same or worst than the previous one | Oct 06 18:46 |
| Sosumi | Egipt and Syria got lucky after the general Sisi couped Morsi | Oct 06 18:47 |
| Sosumi | otherwise with Morsi and his british subservient Nuts Brotherhood we'd have got an egyptian incurssion into Syria | Oct 06 18:48 |
| Sosumi | so yeah Georgie boy is now saving his dirty face, but just like Farage, no breaking, no breaking of the money power of the city of london | Oct 06 18:51 |
| Sosumi | not to mention the whole free market demagogy, yeah derregulation so the big cartels can come and rape everyone's wallet | Oct 06 18:53 |
| Sosumi | got to love them all, Ron Paul, Farage, Georgie boy, Fat Tony... | Oct 06 18:55 |
| Sosumi | all work in different ways but they're all letal | Oct 06 18:55 |
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| MinceR | yeah, let's blame the free market for that :> | Oct 06 19:28 |
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| Sosumi | free market without its checks and balances only enables the already established cartels to be predatory on small businesses and on the ppl | Oct 06 20:37 |
| Sosumi | and it's the demagogy of free market that enables public and private sector to be in cahoots with each other | Oct 06 20:38 |
| MinceR | free market without its checks and balances is not a free market | Oct 06 20:38 |
| Sosumi | thanks to a thing called derregulation | Oct 06 20:38 |
| Sosumi | it's called anarcho-capitalism | Oct 06 20:40 |
| MinceR | i don't think that's what it's called | Oct 06 20:40 |
| Sosumi | no rules, no checks and balances and joe six pack gets screwed, as usual | Oct 06 20:41 |
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| Sosumi | http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2013/10/06/ouch_microsoft_no_longer_recommends_their_own_security_essentials_anti-virus_package | Oct 06 21:31 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.afterdawn.com | Ouch: Microsoft no longer recommends their own Security Essentials anti-virus package - AfterDawn [ http://ur1.ca/fuk2n ] | Oct 06 21:31 |
| Sosumi | lulz | Oct 06 21:31 |
| Sosumi | in a parallel universe: Ouch: Microsoft no longer recommends their own operating system | Oct 06 21:33 |
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| Sosumi | but ho well, AV software is kind of useless anyways | Oct 06 21:35 |
| MinceR | :> | Oct 06 21:35 |
| MinceR | especially m$'s | Oct 06 21:36 |
| Sosumi | and symatec's | Oct 06 21:36 |
| MinceR | their supposed anti-malware sofware stopped recognizing gator as malware when m$ was planning to buy claria | Oct 06 21:36 |
| MinceR | they are not just incompetent, they're evil | Oct 06 21:36 |
| Sosumi | symantec? well they're pretty bad | Oct 06 21:37 |
| MinceR | i meant m$ | Oct 06 21:38 |
| MinceR | but symantec is pretty horrible too | Oct 06 21:38 |
| Sosumi | M$ just likes to shoot themselves in the foot | Oct 06 21:38 |
| Sosumi | but instead of using a handgun they use a bfg9000 | Oct 06 21:39 |
| Sosumi | just like the latest outlook patch broke part of the thing | Oct 06 21:41 |
| Sosumi | or the new "puke" metro interface | Oct 06 21:42 |
| MinceR | http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/18/us-austria-water-idUSBRE98H0AG20130918 | Oct 06 21:49 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.reuters.com | Holy water in Austria unsafe to drink: researchers | Reuters [ http://ur1.ca/fuk64 ] | Oct 06 21:49 |
| Sosumi | they need to boil hell out of it | Oct 06 21:51 |
| MinceR | :> | Oct 06 21:51 |
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| MinceR | http://cdn.meme.li/i/jees7.jpg | Oct 06 22:57 |
| MinceR | gn | Oct 06 23:15 |
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| MERGE | ||
| Sosumi | two companies that I'd enjoy watching them crash to the ground and burn | Oct 05 16:44 |
| MinceR | so would i | Oct 05 16:45 |
| cubezzz | no, DEC was just slow | Oct 05 16:56 |
| cubezzz | trying to sell 70's era tech in the 80's | Oct 05 16:57 |
| cubezzz | but they gave use PDP's which is cool | Oct 05 16:57 |
| cubezzz | s/use/us/ | Oct 05 16:57 |
| cubezzz | some of the DEC stations were really slow, like 286 slow | Oct 05 16:58 |
| cubezzz | so the cheap x86 PCs took over | Oct 05 16:58 |
| Sosumi | yeah, but one of the key guys from DEC came to M$ | Oct 05 17:44 |
| Sosumi | and from that NT was born | Oct 05 17:44 |
| MinceR | Cutler? | Oct 05 17:44 |
| Sosumi | I guess | Oct 05 17:45 |
| MinceR | wasn't he given instructions that completely destroyed the point of the design? :> | Oct 05 17:45 |
| Sosumi | how so? | Oct 05 17:46 |
| MinceR | things like putting the window manager in the kernel "because it will be faster" (it wasn't) | Oct 05 17:46 |
| MinceR | breaking the separation between subsystems | Oct 05 17:46 |
| Sosumi | wait, NT has the window manager built into the kernel? | Oct 05 17:47 |
| MinceR | something like that | Oct 05 17:47 |
| Sosumi | lawl | Oct 05 17:47 |
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| Sosumi | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Windows_2000_architecture.svg | Oct 05 17:55 |
| Sosumi | yeah it is there | Oct 05 17:55 |
| MinceR | and they have the gall to use the word "microkernel" in the diagram | Oct 05 17:57 |
| MinceR | maybe in the microsoft language, "micro" stands for "bloated beyond all repair" | Oct 05 17:57 |
| Sosumi | well, apple also calls XNU micro | Oct 05 17:57 |
| MinceR | two sides of the same coin | Oct 05 17:58 |
| Sosumi | yeah | Oct 05 17:58 |
| DaemonFC | They've been pushing a lot of things out of the kernel in recent Windows releases. | Oct 05 17:58 |
| DaemonFC | Some of it they had to do to make their DRM work better. | Oct 05 17:58 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Oct 05 17:58 |
| MinceR | that's nice | Oct 05 17:58 |
| MinceR | maybe winblows will be Ready For The Desktop in 2030 | Oct 05 17:59 |
| MinceR | :> | Oct 05 17:59 |
| DaemonFC | You can't reliably kill the graphics and sound drivers if they're in the kernel. | Oct 05 17:59 |
| MinceR | who knows maybe they'll rip the USB stack out of FreeBSD | Oct 05 17:59 |
| MinceR | s/ws/ws,/ | Oct 05 17:59 |
| Sosumi | lol | Oct 05 17:59 |
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| DaemonFC | http://www.boston.com/yourtown/news/east_boston/2011/08/in_east_boston_the_last_voyage.html | Oct 05 18:16 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.boston.com | Your Town - Boston.com [ http://ur1.ca/fud0k ] | Oct 05 18:16 |
| DaemonFC | They spent $100,000 trying to restore the ship. Then in 2008, they found a homeless man living in it and made him leave, so the guy came back and sabotaged the ship. | Oct 05 18:17 |
| DaemonFC | Obama is now threatening people on Social Security. | Oct 05 18:20 |
| DaemonFC | He's saying that retirement checks won't go out next month. | Oct 05 18:20 |
| Sosumi | Obozo could just execute an executive order demmanding all gov agencies essential | Oct 05 18:21 |
| Sosumi | and bypass congress | Oct 05 18:21 |
| DaemonFC | He should first declare that everything is essential. | Oct 05 18:21 |
| MinceR | he doesn't have the guts for that | Oct 05 18:21 |
| Sosumi | or maybe he's just playing politricks | Oct 05 18:22 |
| DaemonFC | Then he should declare that the debt ceiling is unconstitutional and ignore it. | Oct 05 18:22 |
| DaemonFC | The debt ceiling is unconstitutional and invalid. | Oct 05 18:22 |
| DaemonFC | Congress is obligated to pay for everything it enacts, under the fourteenth amendment. | Oct 05 18:22 |
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| DaemonFC | If he did that, then the Republicans would be unable to threaten a government shutdown or a default ever again. | Oct 05 18:23 |
| Sosumi | yeah | Oct 05 18:24 |
| DaemonFC | They could go back to doing little or nothing and it wouldn't matter. | Oct 05 18:24 |
| DaemonFC | The only constitutionally valid way for Congress to refuse to pay for something is by voting to repeal it and then having the President sign the bill that repeals it. | Oct 05 18:25 |
| DaemonFC | Otherwise it should be funded indefinitely. | Oct 05 18:25 |
| DaemonFC | No president has ever challenged the constitutionality of the debt ceiling, We never even had one until 1917. | Oct 05 18:26 |
| DaemonFC | Their lies about the Social Security lock box are revealed when this happens. | Oct 05 18:27 |
| DaemonFC | They claim that there's close to three trillion dollars set aside for Social Security, but then they can't actually pay anybody unless Congress authorizes more debt. | Oct 05 18:28 |
| DaemonFC | Those treasury bills that Social Security has are supposed to be payable upon demand. | Oct 05 18:28 |
| Sosumi | well, they were the guys that were all ready to "bomb, bomb, bomb" Syria and Iran | Oct 05 18:29 |
| DaemonFC | They're saying that without the ability to take on more debt, there's nothing to pay those T-bills with. | Oct 05 18:29 |
| DaemonFC | So they reveal the truth. The US government is a debt machine and without the ability to take on more debt every month, nothing can be paid. | Oct 05 18:29 |
| Sosumi | yep, just like pretty much every gov | Oct 05 18:29 |
| JimmyCarter | http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/looting-the-pension-funds-20130926 | Oct 05 18:30 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.rollingstone.com | Looting the Pension Funds: How Wall Street Robs Public Workers | Politics News | Rolling Stone [ http://ur1.ca/fud3e ] | Oct 05 18:30 |
| DaemonFC | Sosumi, Yeah. That's just messed up. "Sorry folks, there's no money. Unless we want to start another war." | Oct 05 18:30 |
| DaemonFC | "Then there's money!" | Oct 05 18:30 |
| DaemonFC | They keep talking about deficit reduction and somehow at the same time they talk about taking on billions more in spending to bomb Syria. | Oct 05 18:31 |
| MinceR | if the debt keeps growing forever, then it's not being run properly, imo | Oct 05 18:31 |
| Sosumi | well, money for the big boys that is | Oct 05 18:31 |
| JimmyCarter | wont grow forever | Oct 05 18:31 |
| JimmyCarter | definite limits to status quo of borrowing propsperity from future | Oct 05 18:31 |
| DaemonFC | Well, it can. | Oct 05 18:31 |
| DaemonFC | As long as the money supply keeps growing and creditors tolerate that. | Oct 05 18:32 |
| Sosumi | it'll end up blowing in everyone's face | Oct 05 18:32 |
| JimmyCarter | usa currently 73% debt-to-gdp ratio says CBO | Oct 05 18:32 |
| Sosumi | portugal currently at 123% and rising :P | Oct 05 18:34 |
| DaemonFC | That's what the bankers want. | Oct 05 18:34 |
| DaemonFC | They want endless government red ink. | Oct 05 18:34 |
| Sosumi | yeah | Oct 05 18:34 |
| JimmyCarter | the federal income is about 10% of gdp | Oct 05 18:34 |
| DaemonFC | Every year, the public grows more indebted to bankers for programs that could easily be paid for by slight tax increases on the wealthy. | Oct 05 18:35 |
| JimmyCarter | so debt is currently at approx 7x federal income | Oct 05 18:35 |
| Sosumi | but you do know the wealthy put their money in trusts | Oct 05 18:35 |
| JimmyCarter | analogoys to someone with 100k/yr job being 700k in debt | Oct 05 18:35 |
| Sosumi | or create non profit foundations | Oct 05 18:35 |
| JimmyCarter | analogous | Oct 05 18:36 |
| DaemonFC | first comes the debt bomb | Oct 05 18:36 |
| DaemonFC | then comes the public pension looting | Oct 05 18:36 |
| DaemonFC | then comes the taxation bomb | Oct 05 18:36 |
| Sosumi | so, increasing tax on the wealthy = killing middle class | Oct 05 18:36 |
| Sosumi | also yes, pension funds raiding and bail ins | Oct 05 18:37 |
| JimmyCarter | yeah just like a credit card company, lenders are happy to collect interest | Oct 05 18:37 |
| DaemonFC | Well, it reminds me of a credit card company that says you have a $5,000 limit. | Oct 05 18:37 |
| DaemonFC | Then when you get close to that, they up it to $10,000, then $20,000. | Oct 05 18:37 |
| JimmyCarter | but lenders are anyone and everyone who buys us bonds | Oct 05 18:37 |
| Sosumi | exactly | Oct 05 18:37 |
| DaemonFC | The only time they stop increasing your limit is when they think that your ability to make the minimum payment (which doesn't get you out of debt) will be threatened. | Oct 05 18:39 |
| DaemonFC | JimmyCarter, Well, it does matter who the creditors are. | Oct 05 18:39 |
| DaemonFC | Obviously, you want your own citizens holding your public debt. | Oct 05 18:39 |
| DaemonFC | Then it becomes a transfer of funds instead of bleeding money out to foreign citizens and governments. | Oct 05 18:40 |
| DaemonFC | If your own citizens are earning the interest, then it's likely that they're going to reinvest that interest into the domestic economy at some point, in some way. | Oct 05 18:41 |
| JimmyCarter | yeah | Oct 05 18:48 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/10/03/remarks-president-government-shutdown | Oct 05 18:48 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.whitehouse.gov | Remarks by the President on the Government Shutdown | The White House [ http://ur1.ca/fud6m ] | Oct 05 18:48 |
| DaemonFC | That's why everyone should save back some cash. | Oct 05 18:48 |
| DaemonFC | At least enough to get them through a couple of months. | Oct 05 18:49 |
| DaemonFC | Social Security checks may not go out next month. | Oct 05 18:49 |
| DaemonFC | But they'd probably work something out to where people get a double check in December or something. | Oct 05 18:49 |
| DaemonFC | But a lot of good that does if you run out of food and can't pay the rent in November. | Oct 05 18:50 |
| JimmyCarter | Foreign governments and investors hold 48% of the nation's public debt. The next largest part (21%) is held by other governmental entities, like the Federal Reserve and state and local governments. Fifteen percent is held by mutual funds, private pension funds, savings bonds or individual Treasury notes. The rest (16%) is held by businesses, like banks, and insurance companies and a mish-mash of trusts, businesses and investors. | Oct 05 18:50 |
| DaemonFC | Social Security alone holds over three trillion dollars. | Oct 05 18:52 |
| DaemonFC | Guess who takes it up the tailpipe first when the government defaults. | Oct 05 18:52 |
| DaemonFC | Hint: Not the banksters. | Oct 05 18:52 |
| DaemonFC | There's another simple explanation for why the government just doesn't tax enough to run its programs. | Oct 05 18:53 |
| DaemonFC | The programs are popular, but the taxes aren't. | Oct 05 18:53 |
| DaemonFC | By running deficits, it can run popular programs while keeping taxes low (for now). | Oct 05 18:53 |
| DaemonFC | The entities that the government borrows from are happy to enable this because they keep getting their interest payments. | Oct 05 18:54 |
| DaemonFC | The program cuts and tax increases will take decades to pan out. | Oct 05 18:54 |
| DaemonFC | and nobody who is in office right now will be there when that happens. So they have no reason to care. | Oct 05 18:55 |
| DaemonFC | The only collateral a government has in obtaining loans is the promise to raise taxes later. | Oct 05 18:55 |
| MinceR | see, the debt ceiling is not the issue :> | Oct 05 18:57 |
| DaemonFC | It is for the moment. | Oct 05 18:58 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, It's like saying that you'll have the triple baconator now so you won't starve, and don't worry about that massive heart attack. | Oct 05 18:58 |
| DaemonFC | That's thirty years from now. | Oct 05 18:58 |
| MinceR | :> | Oct 05 18:59 |
| MinceR | the issue is all that spending that caused the debt to rise that high | Oct 05 18:59 |
| JimmyCarter | a default will trigger credit rating downgrades and interest rate hikes that will crush the sputtering economy | Oct 05 18:59 |
| DaemonFC | Yeah. It's an immediate concern. | Oct 05 18:59 |
| JimmyCarter | thats one of the purported ulterior motives for all the fed's open market operations: keeping interest rates low to keep interest payments down on the us debt | Oct 05 19:00 |
| DaemonFC | If they'd stop giving the military and the black budget spy programs so much money, there wouldn't be a deficit. | Oct 05 19:00 |
| MinceR | indeed | Oct 05 19:01 |
| JimmyCarter | but you gotta die somehow | Oct 05 19:02 |
| DaemonFC | Governments don't typically "die" as such. | Oct 05 19:02 |
| DaemonFC | They can exist indefinitely. | Oct 05 19:02 |
| DaemonFC | I did like Jon Stewart's proposal. | Oct 05 19:05 |
| DaemonFC | Run up as much debt as we can and then fake our own deaths. | Oct 05 19:05 |
| DaemonFC | That actually is possible. | Oct 05 19:05 |
| DaemonFC | A debt crisis could cause a government to disband and you can end up with a new government that claims it won't be held responsible for the former government's debt. | Oct 05 19:06 |
| DaemonFC | In places where that happens frequently, they often have trouble getting anyone to give them loans in their own currency. | Oct 05 19:07 |
| JimmyCarter | i just hope twitter has a good ipo before the sky falls | Oct 05 19:08 |
| MinceR | why? | Oct 05 19:08 |
| JimmyCarter | personal financial interest ;) | Oct 05 19:09 |
| MinceR | :) | Oct 05 19:09 |
| DaemonFC | This is kind of silly though. The Republicans are shutting down the government in protest of a law that will reduce deficits. | Oct 05 19:11 |
| DaemonFC | In the name of reducing deficits. | Oct 05 19:11 |
| JimmyCarter | also costs money to start/shutdown gov | Oct 05 19:11 |
| MinceR | in other words, a typical republican thing to do | Oct 05 19:11 |
| DaemonFC | Well, for one thing, Obamacare fixed Medicare Part D. | Oct 05 19:11 |
| JimmyCarter | also a law that already voted on, already had referendum election on, etc | Oct 05 19:11 |
| DaemonFC | 75% of its spending as enacted by Republicans was deficit spending. | Oct 05 19:12 |
| JimmyCarter | i believe obama when he says he cant allow precedent of minority hijacking | Oct 05 19:12 |
| JimmyCarter | unfortunately the other side in this chicken contest believes jesus is a magical cartoon | Oct 05 19:12 |
| DaemonFC | I think there's going to be a lot of enraged voters that take it out on the Republicans in next years elections. | Oct 05 19:12 |
| MinceR | i don't believe obama even when he asks a question. | Oct 05 19:13 |
| DaemonFC | They're making a lot of people very angry at them. | Oct 05 19:13 |
| DaemonFC | Including me. | Oct 05 19:13 |
| MinceR | he told a bit too many lies recently. | Oct 05 19:13 |
| DaemonFC | I could see them losing 18 House seats, or more., | Oct 05 19:13 |
| DaemonFC | The Democrats will probably be running the House again starting January 2015. | Oct 05 19:13 |
| DaemonFC | Especially if Social Security payments are delayed because of them. | Oct 05 19:14 |
| DaemonFC | err, the Republicans I mean | Oct 05 19:14 |
| MinceR | :) | Oct 05 19:14 |
| JimmyCarter | i hope youre right | Oct 05 19:14 |
| DaemonFC | Old people don't like it when their retirement checks are threatened. | Oct 05 19:14 |
| Sosumi | just let the republican party be the engine of it's own destruction | Oct 05 19:14 |
| DaemonFC | They'll vote out whoever they think is responsible. | Oct 05 19:14 |
| JimmyCarter | boehnor said he wouldnt let debt ceiling expire. | Oct 05 19:14 |
| MinceR | if it's destroyed, will a non-republicrat party emerge as second choice? | Oct 05 19:15 |
| JimmyCarter | so he may do something at last minute that spells changes for gop status quo | Oct 05 19:15 |
| Sosumi | and democrats split between a wall st and populist faction | Oct 05 19:15 |
| JimmyCarter | such as simply allowing a vote! where minority republicans will side with dems to reopen | Oct 05 19:15 |
| DaemonFC | Yeah, there's probably going to be a bill that gets passed by all the Democrats and a handful of Republicans. | Oct 05 19:15 |
| JimmyCarter | and then the tea party will call for boehnors head | Oct 05 19:15 |
| DaemonFC | The Tea Party will get thrown under the bus. | Oct 05 19:15 |
| JimmyCarter | they want someone who will historically default on debt | Oct 05 19:15 |
| Sosumi | ho the pee party.... | Oct 05 19:16 |
| DaemonFC | I have one of the worst "Representatives" in the entire country. | Oct 05 19:16 |
| DaemonFC | Marlin Stutzman | Oct 05 19:16 |
| DaemonFC | I didn't vote for him. | Oct 05 19:16 |
| JimmyCarter | hes not on my radar | Oct 05 19:16 |
| DaemonFC | Of course, with the way the state Republicans drew the districts, it's not like it mattered. | Oct 05 19:16 |
| DaemonFC | He got twice as many votes as the Democrat. | Oct 05 19:16 |
| JimmyCarter | boehnor, mcconnel, meadows, cruz, ryan, | Oct 05 19:17 |
| Sosumi | Merlin the Stuntman | Oct 05 19:17 |
| JimmyCarter | bachman | Oct 05 19:17 |
| JimmyCarter | difficult to compete w these for title of worst representative | Oct 05 19:17 |
| DaemonFC | Paul Ryan and Michelle Bachmann are more vulnerable. | Oct 05 19:17 |
| DaemonFC | Bachmann won her last election with a very slim margin. | Oct 05 19:17 |
| DaemonFC | She spent some time after that trying to keep a low profile. | Oct 05 19:18 |
| DaemonFC | But she's back out there saying dumb things again, so hopefully she gets noticed. | Oct 05 19:18 |
| JimmyCarter | well go knock on doors and convince your neighbors to change mind | Oct 05 19:18 |
| DaemonFC | My neighbors are not impressed with the Republicans right now. | Oct 05 19:18 |
| JimmyCarter | i suck at communicating w republicans | Oct 05 19:18 |
| DaemonFC | and they are in their 80s and 90s mostly. | Oct 05 19:18 |
| DaemonFC | Obamacare reduced their Medicare costs, and now they're afraid that the law will get repealed and their costs will go back up. | Oct 05 19:19 |
| DaemonFC | Of course, I think it's safe to say that the Medicare reforms were designed to do that. | Oct 05 19:19 |
| MinceR | so, are they like "we're not impressed with the republicans right now but we'll be damned if we let the democrats win!"? | Oct 05 19:20 |
| DaemonFC | whoa | Oct 05 19:20 |
| DaemonFC | lightning right over my house | Oct 05 19:20 |
| MinceR | :) | Oct 05 19:20 |
| DaemonFC | This isn't good. | Oct 05 19:20 |
| DaemonFC | If the power doesn't go out, Comcast will. | Oct 05 19:20 |
| DaemonFC | They tend to go down for a day or two if the wind blows. | Oct 05 19:20 |
| DaemonFC | And of course, there are never any bill credits. | Oct 05 19:20 |
| DaemonFC | According to the weather channel, there's going to be a thunderstorm going all night and all day tomorrow. | Oct 05 19:21 |
| MinceR | :( | Oct 05 19:21 |
| DaemonFC | Whenever this happens, the river rises and goes right through my back yard. | Oct 05 19:21 |
| DaemonFC | It's kind of scary. | Oct 05 19:21 |
| MinceR | it can't be good living right next to a river | Oct 05 19:22 |
| DaemonFC | I mean like 20-25 feet from my house. | Oct 05 19:22 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, That's one reason why the rent is cheap here. | Oct 05 19:22 |
| MinceR | ic | Oct 05 19:22 |
| DaemonFC | It has a history of rising and flooding out some of the apartments. | Oct 05 19:22 |
| DaemonFC | I'm actually pretty lucky. | Oct 05 19:22 |
| DaemonFC | I live right on top of the hill. | Oct 05 19:23 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think my apartment has ever been flooded out. | Oct 05 19:23 |
| DaemonFC | The one right next door to me has. | Oct 05 19:23 |
| DaemonFC | It is pouring outside. | Oct 05 19:24 |
| DaemonFC | I can't even see across the street. | Oct 05 19:24 |
| MinceR | luckily, my part of the (sad excuse for a) city i live in is well above the highest flood we've ever had | Oct 05 19:24 |
| MinceR | (during the existence of the city, that is) | Oct 05 19:24 |
| MinceR | i can't trust the nazis or the commies to protect me from the flood (or anything else, for that matter) | Oct 05 19:25 |
| DaemonFC | The river is usually only a few feet deep. | Oct 05 19:25 |
| DaemonFC | You can easily see the bottom of it. | Oct 05 19:25 |
| DaemonFC | But when it rains for several days, it gets pretty deep and turbulent. | Oct 05 19:25 |
| DaemonFC | If this keeps up, Dave will probably call and ask me to come over and help him pump out the water from their basement. | Oct 05 19:26 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Oct 05 19:26 |
| DaemonFC | Their basement flooded the last time it rained like this, and I figured out why. | Oct 05 19:26 |
| DaemonFC | The last owners of the house had this fucking stupid idea for how to landscape. | Oct 05 19:27 |
| DaemonFC | They put three layers of landscape bricks around the house, and sloped the enclosed area towards the house. | Oct 05 19:27 |
| DaemonFC | So I went outside and dug up all of the bricks. | Oct 05 19:27 |
| MinceR | :) | Oct 05 19:28 |
| DaemonFC | It took me about a day to do that and remove all of the river rocks and lay down a new layer of dirt. | Oct 05 19:28 |
| DaemonFC | They called out for some estimates and they got quoted at almost a thousand dollars. | Oct 05 19:29 |
| DaemonFC | So I ended up doing it. | Oct 05 19:29 |
| DaemonFC | My credit is shot because of some medical bills. | Oct 05 19:29 |
| DaemonFC | I know what they're going through. | Oct 05 19:29 |
| DaemonFC | They've got all the same problems I do and more. | Oct 05 19:29 |
| DaemonFC | The IRS is after them too. | Oct 05 19:29 |
| DaemonFC | Luckily I don't have that problem. | Oct 05 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | The IRS can do things to you that nobody else can do. | Oct 05 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | It's like owing child support only worse. | Oct 05 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | They'll put liens on all your property. | Oct 05 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | You won't even be able to sell your stuff to pay them. | Oct 05 19:31 |
| DaemonFC | They have the "honor" of being in that "sweet spot". | Oct 05 19:31 |
| DaemonFC | Enough money to tax and not enough money to fight the IRS and win. | Oct 05 19:31 |
| DaemonFC | The IRS pretty much leaves rich people alone. | Oct 05 19:32 |
| DaemonFC | They have enough to hire accountants and tax lawyers and they can jam the IRS up for years and end up getting settlements for less than half of what they owe. | Oct 05 19:32 |
| DaemonFC | So they mostly go after the middle class. | Oct 05 19:32 |
| DaemonFC | There's this "tax cut logic" that's really perverse that the Republicans bring out every time they call for "tax reform". | Oct 05 19:33 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, It basically goes something like this.... | Oct 05 19:33 |
| DaemonFC | "We have to lower the tax rate on the rich so they won't bother trying to get out of it." | Oct 05 19:33 |
| DaemonFC | "The cuts will pay for themselves!" | Oct 05 19:33 |
| DaemonFC | They never bring up the other argument. "Make them pay their taxes." | Oct 05 19:34 |
| DaemonFC | It does work, kind of. The Bush Tax Cuts did increase the amount of taxes collected from the rich. The more straightforward approach that would get them even more money is to keep the higher rates and reduce their appeal options. | Oct 05 19:36 |
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| MinceR | gn | Oct 05 20:13 |
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| oiaohm | Boy MS is getting desprate with the HTC deal being talked about. | Oct 05 20:33 |
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| DaemonFC | http://www.infowars.com/civil-disobedience-americans-breach-barricades-around-lincoln-memorial/ | Oct 05 20:59 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.infowars.com | Civil Disobedience: Americans Breach Barricades Around Lincoln Memorial Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! [ http://ur1.ca/fudvf ] | Oct 05 20:59 |
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| Sosumi | http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-05/multiple-expansion-dream-over | Oct 05 21:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.zerohedge.com | Is The Multiple-Expansion "Dream" Over? | Zero Hedge [ http://ur1.ca/fue0t ] | Oct 05 21:24 |
| Sosumi | I wish my printer never runned out of paper too | Oct 05 21:25 |
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| DaemonFC | "One woman was having so many problems [trying to log on to the healthcare exchange] that finally the NSA guy that was spying on her broke in and suggested control alt delete." -Bill Maher | Oct 05 22:40 |
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| DaemonFC | If the health insurance exchange crashes one more time they're going to have to stop calling it Obamacare and start calling it Microsoft Windows. | Oct 05 22:44 |
| DaemonFC | ZOMG PINK PONIES says: | Oct 05 22:46 |
| DaemonFC | I tried to create an account and got a page full of gibberish. | Oct 05 22:46 |
| DaemonFC | It was just like that time I tried using Internet Explorer on a standards-compliant web page. | Oct 05 22:46 |
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| DaemonFC | ZOMG PINK PONIES says: | Oct 05 22:55 |
| DaemonFC | The panel of death? | Oct 05 22:55 |
| DaemonFC | Isn't that what they replaced the Start Menu with in Windows 8? | Oct 05 22:55 |
| oiaohm | Fairly much. | Oct 05 23:11 |
| DaemonFC | I don't like programs that take up my entire screen. | Oct 05 23:17 |
| DaemonFC | Those new "metro" apps are worse than Windows 3.x's tiling window management. | Oct 05 23:17 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: you saw the one of MS offering HTC free license for their Phone OS. | Oct 05 23:17 |
| oiaohm | Really Windows 3.11 tiling windows management was multi application effective. | Oct 05 23:20 |
| JimmyCarter | http://www.infowars.com/peter-schiff-warns-of-martial-law/ | Oct 05 23:25 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.infowars.com | Peter Schiff Warns of Martial Law Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! [ http://ur1.ca/fuemq ] | Oct 05 23:25 |
| gulag2013 | haven't seen Peter Schiff in a long time | Oct 05 23:25 |
| JimmyCarter | i just emailed him | Oct 05 23:25 |
| JimmyCarter | Peter, | Oct 05 23:25 |
| JimmyCarter | What's your take on over-fishing and the tragedy of commons? In your infowars interview you advocate capitalism but don't mention any such possible drawbacks. To me this sounded one-sided or over-simplified. | Oct 05 23:25 |
| JimmyCarter | Do you blame the government for the problems with the previous health insurance system? I worry that your disparaging of "liberalism" and "socialism" sends the wrong partisan message. | Oct 05 23:25 |
| JimmyCarter | Thanks for your remarks about the "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't" situation the Fed is in with tapering. That finally crystalized it for me. | Oct 05 23:25 |
| gulag2013 | That video is finally player. Obama supporters not know what party Obama is in? Get out of here. | Oct 05 23:40 |
| DaemonFC | One of the problems with the cost of healthcare in America is that we have two systems competing with each other. | Oct 05 23:44 |
| DaemonFC | We have a private healthcare system and two systems of insurance. Public systems that limit how many and what kind of people can get on them, and private insurance that is largely a burden on employers and on people who don't qualify for employer plans or public plans and have to pay the whole cost out of their own pocket. | Oct 05 23:46 |
| DaemonFC | Most of the problems come from the private sector components. | Oct 05 23:46 |
| DaemonFC | For profit health insurance companies and hospitals that want to pay their upper management big bucks and huge bonuses. | Oct 05 23:47 |
| gulag2013 | I'm not that informed on the system. I know that it's the only industry that can just send you a bill without you knowing the cost before hand. | Oct 05 23:47 |
| DaemonFC | It's driving costs up because the companies and hospitals want a huge profit, and it's driving jobs out of the US because companies can set up in Canada where health insurance is not a burden on them. | Oct 05 23:47 |
| DaemonFC | That's why a lot of the vehicles we buy in the United States are actually assembled in Canada. | Oct 05 23:48 |
| DaemonFC | The auto makers have a choice between buying these expensive health insurance plans here or going to Canada where they pay a small tax that helps fund the government healthcare that all Canadians are eligible for. | Oct 05 23:49 |
| DaemonFC | So it's a small cost that they can plan for in Canada vs. a huge cost that is going up at 5-6 times the rate of overall inflation in the United States. | Oct 05 23:49 |
| DaemonFC | It probably costs them something like $8-9 here for every $1 they'd spend in Canada. | Oct 05 23:49 |
| DaemonFC | So they do business in Canada and export the vehicles to the US for sale. | Oct 05 23:50 |
| gulag2013 | Wow | Oct 05 23:50 |
| DaemonFC | and the high costs and inefficiencies that were caused by the private sector spilled over and ruined the public sector health plans like Medicaid and Medicare. | Oct 05 23:51 |
| DaemonFC | Doctors don't want to see Medicaid patients because they can gouge Medicare and private insurance and Medicaid only reimburses them at a low rate in comparison to their other patients | Oct 05 23:52 |
| gulag2013 | It sounds like a mess. They will have to come force me to pay for a system I won't use. | Oct 05 23:52 |
| DaemonFC | and Medicare's problem is that it has gone on for many years where it just pays every damned bill that gets sent to it, so doctors and hospitals and drug companies conspire to send the highest bills they can send. | Oct 05 23:53 |
| DaemonFC | It pays thousands of dollars for motorized scooters if they are "medically necessary". | Oct 05 23:53 |
| gulag2013 | YA, that sounds right. Just see who will pay it. | Oct 05 23:53 |
| DaemonFC | So every old person that doesn't feel like walking anymore gets a "free" scooter. | Oct 05 23:53 |
| DaemonFC | and then soon after that, they *can't* walk anymore | Oct 05 23:54 |
| DaemonFC | because they stopped doing it and lose their ability | Oct 05 23:54 |
| DaemonFC | Then when they die, the scooter doesn't have to be turned in, so the family sells them and makes money off the sale. | Oct 05 23:55 |
| DaemonFC | A used scooter can go for $500-800 depending on the model. | Oct 05 23:55 |
| DaemonFC | If Medicare got it back after the patient died, they could recondition it and give it to someone else. | Oct 05 23:55 |
| gulag2013 | Yes indeed, Sounds very wasteful. | Oct 05 23:56 |
| DaemonFC | So they're buying a new scooter at full price each time someone's doctor orders one because they have a patient that griped about walking. | Oct 05 23:57 |
| DaemonFC | The patient wouldn't want the scooter if they had to pay for even 20% of the purchase price. | Oct 05 23:57 |
| gulag2013 | I always wondered if a hospital gives me a bandaid, can I just come back with a box and call it even? | Oct 05 23:57 |
| DaemonFC | The way they see it, it's just one more freebie that they're entitled to, so they might as well take it. | Oct 05 23:58 |
| DaemonFC | I got billed $11,000 the last time I was in the hospital. | Oct 06 00:01 |
| DaemonFC | A few hours in the ER. | Oct 06 00:01 |
| DaemonFC | I wasn't even admitted into the hospital. | Oct 06 00:01 |
| DaemonFC | They call it uncompensated care or "charity" care, and then they sue the patient. | Oct 06 00:02 |
| DaemonFC | They get their money back when they garnish your wages or take your house and sell it. | Oct 06 00:02 |
| gulag2013 | That is really scary. I would just try to refuse care. It's so important we learn to take better care of ourselves. Pay now or pay later | Oct 06 00:03 |
| DaemonFC | Medicare wouldn't be in trouble if they let anyone of any age enroll in it. | Oct 06 00:03 |
| DaemonFC | They'd be just like any other insurance company with a balanced risk pool. | Oct 06 00:03 |
| DaemonFC | The healthy people would make the system solvent. | Oct 06 00:03 |
| DaemonFC | For profit insurance is the reason Medicare and Medicaid exist. | Oct 06 00:04 |
| DaemonFC | They're there to take all the old and sick people with very high medical costs, to get them off the balance sheet of the insurance companies. | Oct 06 00:05 |
| DaemonFC | The insurance companies then get to insure mostly people that aren't going to cost them much money and will pay a huge premium. | Oct 06 00:05 |
| DaemonFC | They offload all the undesirable customers onto the public. | Oct 06 00:06 |
| gulag2013 | I know and it's disqusting that human health is a for profit entity. | Oct 06 00:06 |
| oiaohm | Australia PBS setup shows a lot of flaws in medical health for profit ideas. | Oct 06 00:07 |
| gulag2013 | It is the way it is and billions of dollars on medication that doesn't heal any disease | Oct 06 00:07 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: Evergreen of patents of medications turn up a lot as well. | Oct 06 00:07 |
| oiaohm | Funny enough in Australia we have a few drugs produced in the USA for the Australian population by third party producors that cannot be sold to USA cits. | Oct 06 00:08 |
| oiaohm | Why to use the PBS in Australia drug maker has to agree after particular time to allow third parties to produce the same drug. | Oct 06 00:08 |
| gulag2013 | Ha, ha. I think I follow you. | Oct 06 00:09 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: competition is good | Oct 06 00:09 |
| oiaohm | when it comes to medial drug production. | Oct 06 00:09 |
| oiaohm | USA patent system is prevent drug makers competting for low cost production. | Oct 06 00:09 |
| gulag2013 | Well under a lot of circumstances herbal medicine is more effective than man made drugs that hurt vital organs | Oct 06 00:11 |
| gulag2013 | That is the way it is though, long shelf life, means no self life | Oct 06 00:12 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: unless you have the problem here where herbal medicine does not have decent quality controls. | Oct 06 00:12 |
| oiaohm | Basically herbal based medical medicine really need the same quality controls. | Oct 06 00:13 |
| gulag2013 | Good points, but what that was tried first. It's not an option in most. | Oct 06 00:13 |
| gulag2013 | Nutrition, isn't discussed | Oct 06 00:14 |
| gulag2013 | They won'd dare recommend that stop eating meat and dairy. There is no bad cholesterol in plants. | Oct 06 00:15 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: depends on the person. | Oct 06 00:15 |
| oiaohm | due to my dna faults I have to eat meat. | Oct 06 00:15 |
| gulag2013 | You can still choose what you eat,, | Oct 06 00:16 |
| gulag2013 | It doesn't have to be cows eating gmo grains. It can be grass fed etc.. | Oct 06 00:16 |
| oiaohm | I am latcose intollerent. | Oct 06 00:16 |
| gulag2013 | That's not a bad thing, most of the dairy isn't good for you. | Oct 06 00:17 |
| oiaohm | And I wish that people had looked at my diet earlier then I would not have missed like 3 years of my early schooling due to illness. | Oct 06 00:17 |
| gulag2013 | Oh sorry you suffered that. | Oct 06 00:17 |
| oiaohm | Latcose intollernet is nastly. Subpress imunine system. | Oct 06 00:17 |
| oiaohm | No other symtoms. | Oct 06 00:17 |
| gulag2013 | So they forced milk on you | Oct 06 00:17 |
| oiaohm | Basically I would catch any cold going and not be able to rid off it. | Oct 06 00:18 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: stupid think about being allergic at times. You like exactly what you are allergic to. | Oct 06 00:19 |
| gulag2013 | Yes I agree, I have reactions to sugar and caffeine. It takes all my willpower not to consume those things. | Oct 06 00:19 |
| oiaohm | No they were not forcing milk on me. Yes it takes all my will power not to cosume the stuff. | Oct 06 00:20 |
| gulag2013 | Well luckily there are more dairy alternatives coming out all the time. | Oct 06 00:20 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: there is a bacteria you can add to milk to break down the lactose. | Oct 06 00:21 |
| gulag2013 | Almond Milk and Coconut milks are really good for you. | Oct 06 00:21 |
| oiaohm | before you drink it. | Oct 06 00:21 |
| oiaohm | basically get milk put bacteria in leave it 2 days in fridge then its safe to drink. | Oct 06 00:21 |
| oiaohm | and particular cheeses don't contain lactose. | Oct 06 00:22 |
| gulag2013 | There is still the puss in dairy man. It's just not normal to be drinking another animals breast milk. We are the only animal doing that. | Oct 06 00:22 |
| oiaohm | Same kind of reason. Ie the yeast type consumed it. | Oct 06 00:22 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: You forgot cats. | Oct 06 00:24 |
| gulag2013 | I don't drink cat milk either, ha ha. I know what you meant | Oct 06 00:25 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: cats drink other amimals milk. | Oct 06 00:25 |
| gulag2013 | You do notice after they are past being kittens they don't do that | Oct 06 00:25 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: even big cats. | Oct 06 00:25 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: even adult cats will. | Oct 06 00:26 |
| gulag2013 | I have never seen a grown cat nursing | Oct 06 00:26 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: not nursing. | Oct 06 00:26 |
| gulag2013 | I will take you word on it. | Oct 06 00:26 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: when they cosume pray big cats willk drink the breast milk out. | Oct 06 00:27 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: its all about extracting as much from a kill possible. | Oct 06 00:27 |
| gulag2013 | Will they eat the whole animal raw, and have the stomach designed for that. | Oct 06 00:27 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: tigers and some big cats love full cream milk as rewards. | Oct 06 00:28 |
| oiaohm | Ie cattle milk. | Oct 06 00:28 |
| oiaohm | What is close to there normal pray. | Oct 06 00:28 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: the difference is volume. | Oct 06 00:28 |
| gulag2013 | A cows normal predator? | Oct 06 00:29 |
| oiaohm | Cats as adults take milk from other creatures as treaks. | Oct 06 00:29 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: big cats. | Oct 06 00:29 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: afica where most of the cattle breeds start the normal creature to kill them is big cats. | Oct 06 00:29 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: so yes part right abotu drinking another animals breast milk in volume is abnormal. But there are other animals that drink other creatures milk in small volumes. | Oct 06 00:31 |
| gulag2013 | Thank you for reminding me, good point I have seen my cats drink milk. | Oct 06 00:32 |
| gulag2013 | Here int the states they have pushed dairy as being vital for our health. That simply isnt' the case. You can get all you need from plants. | Oct 06 00:33 |
| oiaohm | And some of the milk problem is human stupidity. A1 and A2 milk. A1 cattle produce more milk due to a dna alteration. But also is less human compadible. A2 milk cattle produce less milk but is more human compadible. | Oct 06 00:33 |
| oiaohm | Majority of the cattle milk on shelves is A1 milk. | Oct 06 00:33 |
| gulag2013 | I didn't know that. I know they boil it so it really has no nutrition left. | Oct 06 00:34 |
| gulag2013 | They come after Raw milk sellers | Oct 06 00:35 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: wrong on the no nutrition left. | Oct 06 00:36 |
| gulag2013 | What could be left, after heating it at such high temps | Oct 06 00:36 |
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| oiaohm | Hmm just that was odd. | Oct 06 00:59 |
| gulag2013 | You get kicked off the internets ? | Oct 06 01:00 |
| JimmyCarter | GUIs are always doom, noone has avoided it | Oct 06 01:01 |
| JimmyCarter | oops wrong chan | Oct 06 01:01 |
| gulag2013 | What are you saying Mr Carter? | Oct 06 01:01 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: no it was power distrubance of some form. | Oct 06 01:01 |
| gulag2013 | I got you, UPS's are great for that | Oct 06 01:02 |
| JimmyCarter | i was comiserating with someone in #android-dev | Oct 06 01:03 |
| gulag2013 | Oh cool, do you code apps? | Oct 06 01:03 |
| JimmyCarter | Brown outs. Build another power plant. | Oct 06 01:03 |
| JimmyCarter | yup | Oct 06 01:03 |
| JimmyCarter | if you have nexus7 or better you can try my game | Oct 06 01:03 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: I do have a ups. I suspect something overheated. | Oct 06 01:03 |
| gulag2013 | Nice, Android market place seems like the wild west | Oct 06 01:03 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: machine only had been up for 6 months. | Oct 06 01:04 |
| JimmyCarter | yup, its awesome | Oct 06 01:04 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: running around 80/90 percent load. | Oct 06 01:04 |
| JimmyCarter | pretty soon the feds will ruin it | Oct 06 01:04 |
| gulag2013 | oiaohm, that's great I switched to linux and have been up 4 days straight. | Oct 06 01:04 |
| gulag2013 | I wish I could try you game, my nexus 7 needs a new usb connector | Oct 06 01:05 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: with pastrusised milk I have been on the recieving end on non pastraised milk. | Oct 06 01:05 |
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| oiaohm | gulag2013: the bad side there are nice little illness you can get from non pastrusised milk. | Oct 06 01:05 |
| gulag2013 | Yes, I wasn't trying to convince you against dairy, it's a choice I made and my tummy thanks me for it. | Oct 06 01:06 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: funny enough the food value is barely altered by the pastruised and non pastruised. Please note canning of food is the same process. | Oct 06 01:07 |
| gulag2013 | They do some crazy stuff to the milk and cows. Big Got Milk campaign is not an accident. | Oct 06 01:08 |
| gulag2013 | i have had non homogenized milk. I liked that much better. | Oct 06 01:09 |
| oiaohm | non homogenized can be pastruised as well. | Oct 06 01:10 |
| oiaohm | The ammount of mixing and altering of the ratios in milk they do is insane. | Oct 06 01:10 |
| gulag2013 | Now I drink Soy which is really not good I hear either, | Oct 06 01:11 |
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| gulag2013 | They strip the baby cows from the mothers at birth, that first milk is called colostrum I think, it's bottled and sold. The baby boy who knows what happens. | Oct 06 01:13 |
| oiaohm | There are very few soy milks I can stand to drink. | Oct 06 01:18 |
| oiaohm | Most soy milks are too grainy for my mouth. | Oct 06 01:19 |
| gulag2013 | There are hemp, rice, almond, soy, coconut, Have you ever tried coconut ice cream? It's pretty good. | Oct 06 01:20 |
| DaemonFC | almond milk is way better than soy | Oct 06 01:22 |
| DaemonFC | just remember to get the unflavored/unsweetened stuff | Oct 06 01:22 |
| gulag2013 | Yes, I'm trying to watch my sugar, what is your reason for un | Oct 06 01:22 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: soy soft seve icescream avoid like plague. | Oct 06 01:23 |
| oiaohm | coconut is nice. | Oct 06 01:23 |
| DaemonFC | I don't like them dumping in the extra sugar and calories | Oct 06 01:23 |
| gulag2013 | Oh thanks for the tip. I have never tried soy ice cream | Oct 06 01:23 |
| DaemonFC | and I don't like the vanilla flavor | Oct 06 01:23 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: its the softserve form. | Oct 06 01:23 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: its in fact colder than normal icecream. | Oct 06 01:24 |
| gulag2013 | Yes, the vanilla is to strong | Oct 06 01:24 |
| DaemonFC | The unflavored stuff is pretty much exactly like skim milk. I use it in my cereal. | Oct 06 01:24 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: so you know that icescream head ache it gets you with massive nasty. | Oct 06 01:24 |
| gulag2013 | I'm not sure oiaohm, but I have suffered some serious dairy ice cream stomach aches. Because I don't have a governor I just keep eating | Oct 06 01:26 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: Neither do I normally. | Oct 06 01:26 |
| gulag2013 | I like the plain almond milk | Oct 06 01:26 |
| DaemonFC | http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/11/25/ways-on-buying-in-markets.aspx | Oct 06 01:26 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | articles.mercola.com | Supermarkets Influence Your Food Shopping Choices [ http://ur1.ca/fufb3 ] | Oct 06 01:26 |
| DaemonFC | "Displaying a dollar sign on the display decreases the likelihood of you making a purchase, because it's instinctively equated with "cost" or "spending." As Lindstrom says, "Removing the sign helps the consumer sidestep the harsh reality of outstanding bills and longer-term financial concerns."" | Oct 06 01:26 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: soy soft serve is about the only icescream head ache in side one cone. | Oct 06 01:27 |
| DaemonFC | I never really thought about that, but now that I do... | Oct 06 01:27 |
| DaemonFC | Kroger and Walmart don't put a dollar sign on the price tag. | Oct 06 01:27 |
| DaemonFC | They put stickers that say "1.76" or ".99" or "10 for 10". | Oct 06 01:27 |
| DaemonFC | Not "$1.76", "$0.99", or "10 for $10". | Oct 06 01:28 |
| gulag2013 | Huh? I have been blind to that $ either way. Now i'm curious | Oct 06 01:28 |
| DaemonFC | "Larger shopping carts equate to increased spending." | Oct 06 01:28 |
| DaemonFC | Yeah, when our Walmart became a super Walmart, they increased the size of the carts by about 50% | Oct 06 01:28 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: its called cost saving. | Oct 06 01:29 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: yes the ink saved on not printing the dollar sign adds up. | Oct 06 01:29 |
| gulag2013 | I know the supermarket here tries to hide the good coffee that is cheaper on the very bottom shelve. The whole eye level scam | Oct 06 01:29 |
| DaemonFC | gulag2013, Yes. They like to put the little bags of coffee that cost like 50 or 75 cents per ounce at eye level. | Oct 06 01:30 |
| gulag2013 | Ha ha the ink savings as they waste thousands on flyeers | Oct 06 01:30 |
| DaemonFC | They put the bulk coffee that costs less on the bottom two shelves. | Oct 06 01:31 |
| gulag2013 | This was Panera bread company. You have that chain right | Oct 06 01:31 |
| gulag2013 | Anyway they have their brand in the supermarket now for $6 for 12 ounces and it's really good, but they try to hide it. So if it doesn't sell then what. | Oct 06 01:32 |
| DaemonFC | The "gourmet" coffee has gotten ridiculous. | Oct 06 01:33 |
| gulag2013 | What ever happened to honest pound of anything. | Oct 06 01:33 |
| DaemonFC | They have Starbucks for $8.99 for a one pound bag. | Oct 06 01:33 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: look at there flyers they are doing the same stunt. | Oct 06 01:33 |
| DaemonFC | You can get two pounds of store brand for $5.99 | Oct 06 01:33 |
| gulag2013 | Sure they sell 1lbs | Oct 06 01:33 |
| gulag2013 | I'm still a bit snobby when it comes to good coffee | Oct 06 01:34 |
| gulag2013 | Stunt with what | Oct 06 01:34 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: are you the level that roasts your own? | Oct 06 01:34 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: no dollar signs. | Oct 06 01:34 |
| gulag2013 | No, that is a lot of work and you can screw that up if you aren't careful. i will grind beans sometimes. | Oct 06 01:35 |
| gulag2013 | I watched a guy at a place roast, it is really good if you can get some the first week after a roast | Oct 06 01:36 |
| gulag2013 | Anyway, yes they spend a lot of money studying us and monitoring our purchasing habits. Sickening | Oct 06 01:37 |
| gulag2013 | I can't say I blame them, but I place people before money. | Oct 06 01:38 |
| gulag2013 | Mcdonalds and the famous free toy training little kids to be life long costumers | Oct 06 01:40 |
| gulag2013 | Coke and Pepsi feeding millions of gallons of corn sugar, and diabetes | Oct 06 01:41 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: you miss the caffine. | Oct 06 01:41 |
| oiaohm | caffine is not a 100 percent harmless drug. | Oct 06 01:41 |
| gulag2013 | I should be staying off it. I'm slowly drinking more green tea | Oct 06 01:41 |
| oiaohm | caffine is most dangous when combind with suger. | Oct 06 01:42 |
| gulag2013 | I bet, | Oct 06 01:42 |
| gulag2013 | Sugar is some addictive stuff on it's own. I tried switching to stevia , yuck I can't drink that stuff. | Oct 06 01:43 |
| oiaohm | Its like the drinks like redbull and mostor and so on they have caused deaths that have been documented by only minor over consumion. | Oct 06 01:43 |
| oiaohm | Max ammout of redbull you should have a day is 1 can. | Oct 06 01:43 |
| oiaohm | guess how many people don't obey that. | Oct 06 01:43 |
| gulag2013 | I know right, that stuff is dangerous. I have had those monster drinks before. | Oct 06 01:43 |
| oiaohm | yet people drink 2 l of coke. | Oct 06 01:44 |
| oiaohm | Same ammout of active. | Oct 06 01:44 |
| oiaohm | This is why coke is working on suger free versions so much. | Oct 06 01:44 |
| oiaohm | Ie no suger no dead consumers. | Oct 06 01:44 |
| oiaohm | Hopefully. | Oct 06 01:44 |
| gulag2013 | the sugar free stuff is even worse. Why is corn syrup to expensive as a sugar sub now? | Oct 06 01:45 |
| gulag2013 | Aspartame | Oct 06 01:45 |
| oiaohm | stevia is a art to handle correctly. | Oct 06 01:47 |
| gulag2013 | I had a real coke made with sugar cane a few months back . I was very uneasy for over an hour. | Oct 06 01:47 |
| oiaohm | suger cane suger is less adctivive than corn syrup contain froctoos | Oct 06 01:47 |
| oiaohm | corn syrup is not a good replacement for suger. | Oct 06 01:48 |
| gulag2013 | Yes, what they don't tell you is the corn syrup is around .20 cents a pound and the government subsidizes corn. | Oct 06 01:49 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: I have grown stevia plants. | Oct 06 01:49 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: the art with stevia usage is hard because stevia alone has a horid after taste. | Oct 06 01:49 |
| gulag2013 | Oh cool, I wonder if it's good like that, I have had the man made white concentrated powdered stuff. I don't like it | Oct 06 01:50 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: touch of honey remove after taste. | Oct 06 01:50 |
| gulag2013 | I bet, good idea | Oct 06 01:50 |
| oiaohm | Ie use stevia correctly it increases the suger taste. | Oct 06 01:50 |
| oiaohm | But you still need to put one of the real sugers in close to raw form. | Oct 06 01:51 |
| gulag2013 | i have some other thing called monk sugar, it's okay but tastes sort of like stevia | Oct 06 01:51 |
| gulag2013 | Agave is sort of scam | Oct 06 01:52 |
| gulag2013 | I'm going Vegan so I'm supposed to not eat Honey, but that seems a bit extreme. | Oct 06 01:53 |
| oiaohm | http://national.cleanplates.com/health-nutrition/the-new-sugar-monk-fruit/ | Oct 06 01:53 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | national.cleanplates.com | The new "sugar" is...monk fruit! Learn the different types.Healthy Recipes and Sustainable Food [ http://ur1.ca/fufeo ] | Oct 06 01:53 |
| oiaohm | monk fruit is a lot clearner source of natural sweetener. gulag2013 | Oct 06 01:54 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: yes simlar compounds to stevia. No nasty after taste. | Oct 06 01:54 |
| gulag2013 | It's good, not perfect but better | Oct 06 01:55 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: but same thing like stevia a very small does of honey or brown suger is enough to fully fool taste buds. | Oct 06 01:55 |
| oiaohm | Ie brown suger with monk fruit works where it does not with stevia. | Oct 06 01:56 |
| gulag2013 | True, i'm an addict though, i'm trying to just cut that out, but it's super hard. | Oct 06 01:56 |
| oiaohm | Basically 90 to 95 percent of the suger load can be replaced. | Oct 06 01:56 |
| oiaohm | 5 to 10 percent has to remain or your taste buds will pick the difference. | Oct 06 01:57 |
| gulag2013 | I believe that, I was off of sugar for a week and my taste buds appreciated bananas. | Oct 06 01:57 |
| oiaohm | You don't get where you were going. | Oct 06 01:58 |
| oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose bananas are high Fructose. | Oct 06 01:59 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | en.wikipedia.org | Fructose - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | Oct 06 01:59 |
| gulag2013 | Yes, but i'm the camp that the fiber and minerals help the digestion and it's not the same as stripped out fructose. | Oct 06 02:00 |
| gulag2013 | My body is fine on fruit sugars, I could eat a bag of oranges and not crash. | Oct 06 02:01 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: funny enough fructose is more adictive than general suger ie sucrose sugercane. | Oct 06 02:01 |
| oiaohm | oranges are not that high in fructose. | Oct 06 02:01 |
| gulag2013 | I see, makes sense I love bananas. | Oct 06 02:01 |
| oiaohm | fructose in high doese causes crashes like sucrose. | Oct 06 02:01 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: basically you are lining up to swap one addiction for another. | Oct 06 02:02 |
| oiaohm | Moderation. | Oct 06 02:02 |
| gulag2013 | ha ha, yes but it's real food | Oct 06 02:02 |
| oiaohm | I guess you also love corn. | Oct 06 02:03 |
| oiaohm | basically you cut suger and your body gets sneaky. | Oct 06 02:04 |
| oiaohm | And makes you crave the fructose items instead. | Oct 06 02:04 |
| gulag2013 | No, I barely eat corn I think it's all been contaminated by Monsanto. | Oct 06 02:05 |
| oiaohm | http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nutrition/a/fructosedangers.htm | Oct 06 02:05 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | lowcarbdiets.about.com | Fructose - Sweet But Dangerous - The Dangers of Fructose [ http://ur1.ca/fufh0 ] | Oct 06 02:05 |
| gulag2013 | What do they call that negative calories, I don't think it has much nutrition and you body doesn't even digest it. | Oct 06 02:05 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: fructose puts presure on liver. | Oct 06 02:05 |
| oiaohm | Yes you avoid one stack of nasty side effect and can walk straight into another. | Oct 06 02:06 |
| gulag2013 | I have read that. | Oct 06 02:06 |
| oiaohm | Moderation usage of fructose and sucrose is fine. | Oct 06 02:06 |
| oiaohm | Same with other sugers. | Oct 06 02:06 |
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| oiaohm | In fact bannas also contain sucrose gulag2013 | Oct 06 02:08 |
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| oiaohm | gulag2013: so yep suger in nice hidden for. 1 or 2 bannas a day fine pig out on them you are asking for it. | Oct 06 02:08 |
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| gulag2013 | I have had more than two and talk about getting high and full of energy | Oct 06 02:10 |
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| oiaohm | gulag2013: just because it natural does not mean it cannot harm you. | Oct 06 02:13 |
| gulag2013 | Well tell an Ape that he eats to many bananas. | Oct 06 02:13 |
| gulag2013 | I do appreciate your help, I'm pleasantly surprised you are that informed on the subject. | Oct 06 02:14 |
| DaemonFC | A woman looks outside and sees a man masturbating on her front porch, so she calls 911. "There's a damned Democrat masturbating on my front porch!". The 911 operator says "Could you say that again!?". The woman says "I told you, there's a damned Democrat masturbating on my front porch!". The 911 operator says "How do you know he's a Democrat?. The woman says "Duh! If he was a Republican, he'd be fuc | Oct 06 02:16 |
| DaemonFC | king ME!" | Oct 06 02:16 |
| gulag2013 | drum roll, okay slightly funny | Oct 06 02:17 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: they have different bio to us. We are more fish/meat eaters than the Apes. Heck the Apes can make vitiman c where we cannot. | Oct 06 02:17 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: that is some of the big things. | Oct 06 02:17 |
| oiaohm | Particular items the human body cannot make means human body burns less fuel than our Ape relations. | Oct 06 02:18 |
| gulag2013 | i reserve that is were I argue that we may be able to eat meat, but it ferments in our system and causes all kinds of health issues. | Oct 06 02:19 |
| oiaohm | Its the fact we can eat meat why being vegan is so hard. | Oct 06 02:20 |
| oiaohm | meat in the form fish or read or white. Basically contains chemicals human body skips out on producing. | Oct 06 02:21 |
| oiaohm | Where are normal ape would be able to produce those chemicals. | Oct 06 02:21 |
| gulag2013 | I don't find it hard, i'm mean I'm not against it for survival. Part me thinks that is why we can, during winter months with no food. We would have been dead | Oct 06 02:21 |
| oiaohm | So a vegan has to be very careful to eat plants that provide those chemicals. | Oct 06 02:22 |
| oiaohm | Something buddist monks worked out how to do for most people. | Oct 06 02:22 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: basically want to live vegan take a buddist cooking classes. | Oct 06 02:23 |
| gulag2013 | That would be cool, I'm interested in buddist teachings myself. | Oct 06 02:23 |
| oiaohm | My case is a little different I have a new proten multation. So I have to eat meat until I do find a plant that can provide that one. | Oct 06 02:23 |
| gulag2013 | Protein/ | Oct 06 02:24 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: basically I would love to come a buddist monk but I cannot live in the eat vegan diet. | Oct 06 02:24 |
| gulag2013 | I have no interest in becoming a monk, just to be more aligned with nature. | Oct 06 02:24 |
| oiaohm | Basically buddist monks have thousands of years of knolledge about living vegan. | Oct 06 02:25 |
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| gulag2013 | They are known to be vegans, yep. | Oct 06 02:26 |
| oiaohm | very good at it. | Oct 06 02:26 |
| gulag2013 | I read some are allowed to eat some meat. It depends | Oct 06 02:26 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: buddist rules are not set in solid stone. | Oct 06 02:27 |
| oiaohm | If they are served meat not to offend host they will eat it. | Oct 06 02:27 |
| oiaohm | But they are not mean to intetionally seek out to kill it. | Oct 06 02:27 |
| oiaohm | or have it killed to suite there needs. | Oct 06 02:28 |
| oiaohm | basically buddist monks are sane they are not going to stave to death if allready killed meat is the only thing on offer. | Oct 06 02:28 |
| gulag2013 | That is where my mind is at. I don't have the stomach to kill animals for my food. So I don't pay others to do it for me. | Oct 06 02:28 |
| oiaohm | while I am eating meat I don't have the stomach either. | Oct 06 02:29 |
| oiaohm | If I go off meat I become a very different person. | Oct 06 02:29 |
| oiaohm | basically nature taking over to get what my body required. | Oct 06 02:30 |
| gulag2013 | That is today, maybe tomorrow I will eat meat again, I don't like absolutes. Today I didnt' eat meat. | Oct 06 02:30 |
| oiaohm | so increase agreesion. | Oct 06 02:30 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: so you are very much a buddist are core. | Oct 06 02:30 |
| gulag2013 | I don't know. I haven't researched it much | Oct 06 02:31 |
| gulag2013 | I like the idea. | Oct 06 02:31 |
| gulag2013 | Being your own power is very important to me. Not worshiping a false god | Oct 06 02:32 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: buddist have to major sects. | Oct 06 02:32 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: one see budda who was a real person as a real living teacher who died. | Oct 06 02:32 |
| oiaohm | That sect does not worsh budda at all. | Oct 06 02:33 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: of coruse there is another sect to says he assended. | Oct 06 02:33 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: yes how to start a long buddist cat fight put both groups in the same room. | Oct 06 02:33 |
| oiaohm | Normally ends with the normal no right to push your beliefs on others and everyone is free to have their own believes. | Oct 06 02:34 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: basically the right sect of buddist you would get alone with extreamly well. Ok might not ever become a buddist but they would be no problem to your because their believes would be simplar. | Oct 06 02:35 |
| gulag2013 | No, we shouldn't be doing that. I have to be careful of that. I just see people trying to reach false happiness and it's sad to watch. | Oct 06 02:35 |
| DaemonFC | I found some pictures of my mom and my aunt in Paris from back in 2009. | Oct 06 02:43 |
| DaemonFC | (the aunt that died in August) | Oct 06 02:43 |
| DaemonFC | I'm going to pull them off these CDs and archive them. | Oct 06 02:44 |
| gulag2013 | Onto what media? | Oct 06 02:45 |
| gulag2013 | Is there something that would last a lifetime? I know cd's are not great. | Oct 06 02:46 |
| gulag2013 | Oh bluetooth devices still get me cranky, I would figure they would just work at this point. | Oct 06 02:49 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: look up mdisc | Oct 06 02:50 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: http://www.mdisc.com/what-is-mdisc/ combind that with dvdisaster you have very long term achive media. | Oct 06 02:51 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.mdisc.com | What is M-Disc? The M-DISC | Oct 06 02:51 |
| DaemonFC | Well, I'll email them to my mom. | Oct 06 02:52 |
| DaemonFC | As far as I know, Google doesn't lose files. | Oct 06 02:52 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: they have in the past. | Oct 06 02:53 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: google is not 100 percent bullet proff | Oct 06 02:53 |
| gulag2013 | M-Disc looks interesting, but they need to be sold local | Oct 06 02:55 |
| gulag2013 | I love hate Google. I use google drive for some stuff, but it's against my nature to allow a cloud to hold my stuff. | Oct 06 02:56 |
| oiaohm | problem is there is not much options. | Oct 06 02:57 |
| prurigro | google drive is amazing for collaboration | Oct 06 02:58 |
| gulag2013 | prurigro, I agree and it's one reason I still keep my gmail | Oct 06 02:58 |
| gulag2013 | Those M discs I see a problem. We won't have optical drives in 1000 years. | Oct 06 02:59 |
| prurigro | you don't need a mail for it | Oct 06 02:59 |
| gulag2013 | I retract that maybe no opticals in ten years | Oct 06 02:59 |
| prurigro | I keep mine for certain categories of things I don't mind on the potentially public record (depending who google shares with), but you can definitel just sign up for drive/docs with another emal | Oct 06 02:59 |
| gulag2013 | Yes, I opted way out of google * | Oct 06 03:00 |
| gulag2013 | google + sorry about that | Oct 06 03:00 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: there will be a good question what will we have in 10 years. | Oct 06 03:03 |
| oiaohm | M disc storage will live to what ever the new storage will be. | Oct 06 03:03 |
| oiaohm | Current harddrives and flash drives don't have the life span. | Oct 06 03:04 |
| gulag2013 | I hope we still have removable media, apple is starting to solder the flash storage on the motherboards. | Oct 06 03:04 |
| oiaohm | Printing hardcopies take too much space. | Oct 06 03:04 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: really it would be warped if in the next 10 years we have cameras on devices high enough res to scan dvd discs. | Oct 06 03:06 |
| gulag2013 | Startling, Did that idea just come to you. That | Oct 06 03:07 |
| gulag2013 | That | Oct 06 03:07 |
| gulag2013 | That would be wild. | Oct 06 03:08 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: I have wondered that idea for a while. | Oct 06 03:09 |
| gulag2013 | No doubt, you would just have a spinning spindle of some kind underneath a dome with the camera lens on top | Oct 06 03:09 |
| oiaohm | Realy no. | Oct 06 03:09 |
| oiaohm | I have done grids of 2d bar codes. | Oct 06 03:10 |
| oiaohm | So as long as the camera can run over and join the different framements up. | Oct 06 03:10 |
| oiaohm | So disc does not need to spin. | Oct 06 03:10 |
| oiaohm | The most compact cd play that never went into production cut the cd in two and used a scaning head that moved. | Oct 06 03:11 |
| gulag2013 | i'm not that smart about this, but wow that would be great make an iso from your phone camera straight to your phone. | Oct 06 03:11 |
| oiaohm | We are talking insanely high resolution. | Oct 06 03:12 |
| oiaohm | Basical microscope in camera. | Oct 06 03:12 |
| gulag2013 | You have yourself a patent, | Oct 06 03:12 |
| gulag2013 | Don't let the idea get lost. | Oct 06 03:12 |
| oiaohm | Currently I archive over 1.5 megs per side of sheet of paper | Oct 06 03:13 |
| oiaohm | of a4 | Oct 06 03:13 |
| oiaohm | That is scanable in on a mobile phone. | Oct 06 03:13 |
| oiaohm | Yes current day tech. | Oct 06 03:13 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: ie passwords in file that are a little hard to copy quickly. | Oct 06 03:14 |
| gulag2013 | Neat, using what that would save me some agravation for scrap records. | Oct 06 03:14 |
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| gulag2013 | I'm trying to stay paperless, I scan most of my stuff on a cheap cannon flatbed. Your phones sounds convenient | Oct 06 03:16 |
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| oiaohm | gulag2013: my long term goal is to be able to get books printed using the system I do. | Oct 06 03:20 |
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| gulag2013 | That would be great. I know I value less stuff. | Oct 06 03:23 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: I just think it would be funny to have the complete works of shakespear or other famous writers in a very thin book. | Oct 06 03:30 |
| gulag2013 | That would be nice, I have some software that will read the text for me. | Oct 06 03:31 |
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| oiaohm | exactly the software on phones already exists to read the books. | Oct 06 03:32 |
| oiaohm | A source of physical world books for phones is missing. | Oct 06 03:32 |
| gulag2013 | Well there is kindle and others on phones | Oct 06 03:32 |
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| oiaohm | gulag2013: when I say physical I mean physical. | Oct 06 03:33 |
| gulag2013 | Oh sorry, maybe I don | Oct 06 03:34 |
| oiaohm | Scanning a normal paper book in takes ages. | Oct 06 03:34 |
| oiaohm | So I started working on systems with the goal of being able to place like 1 or 2 pages in a book containing the complete book for easy scanning. | Oct 06 03:35 |
| gulag2013 | Okay, two pages at once? | Oct 06 03:35 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: one at a time scanning is designed into what I have done. | Oct 06 03:36 |
| oiaohm | so 1 page half the book the next page the other half. | Oct 06 03:36 |
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| oiaohm | I had to allow for phone camera limits gulag2013 | Oct 06 03:36 |
| oiaohm | ie they don't do double side scaning or across fold very well. | Oct 06 03:36 |
| oiaohm | Yes the fun of camera focus. | Oct 06 03:37 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.cityautomall.com/VehicleDetails/used-2004-Ford-Freestar_Wagon-4dr_SEL-Columbia_City-IN/2065800953 | Oct 06 03:37 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.cityautomall.com | 2004 Ford Freestar Wagon for sale in Columbia City - 2FMZA52244BB20397 - City Automall [ http://ur1.ca/fp8zy ] | Oct 06 03:37 |
| DaemonFC | I still have my eye on that one. | Oct 06 03:38 |
| DaemonFC | Told the guy that if he can knock a few hundred off of it, then I might buy it. | Oct 06 03:38 |
| DaemonFC | It's been on their lot since August. | Oct 06 03:38 |
| DaemonFC | No auction is going to give them $4,000 for it. | Oct 06 03:38 |
| DaemonFC | I'm kind of hoping he gets sick of looking at it and offers it to me at $3,500. | Oct 06 03:39 |
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| DaemonFC | The guy called me back and offered that 2004 Crown Victoria to me for $2,500. | Oct 06 03:44 |
| DaemonFC | I'm not sure I really want to get in on that though. | Oct 06 03:44 |
| DaemonFC | Right off the bat, I'd have an ABS sensor to replace, an exhaust leak to fix, a transmission flush, and a blend motor issue for the heat/air conditioning system that would probably require them to take the dash apart. :P | Oct 06 03:45 |
| DaemonFC | So that's some serious money. | Oct 06 03:45 |
| DaemonFC | Then it somehow got a chunk taken out of the front grill. | Oct 06 03:46 |
| DaemonFC | So I'd need to find a replacement grill. | Oct 06 03:46 |
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| iophk | http://torrentfreak.com/google-now-taking-down-eight-pirate-links-every-single-second-131005/ | Oct 06 04:18 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | torrentfreak.com | Google Now Taking Down Eight Pirate Links Every Single Second | TorrentFreak [ http://ur1.ca/fug5m ] | Oct 06 04:18 |
| iophk | "If Nokia had kept MeeGo, Jolla wouldn't exist" | Oct 06 04:22 |
| iophk | http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/finland-and-nokia-an-affair-to-remember/2/ | Oct 06 04:22 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | arstechnica.com | Finland and Nokia: An affair to remember | Ars Technica [ http://ur1.ca/fug64 ] | Oct 06 04:22 |
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| schestowitz_bed2 | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/3134661 | Oct 06 05:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Is Slackware, The Oldest Remaining Linux Distribution, Right For You? http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/is-slackware-the-oldest-remaining-linux-distribution-right-for-you/ #slackware #gnu #linux | Oct 06 05:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> www.makeuseof.com | Is Slackware, The Oldest Remaining Linux Distribution, Right For You? [ http://ur1.ca/ftyfy ] | Oct 06 05:24 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | "the author gets rightly put in his place for such a superficial take on Slackware" | Oct 06 05:24 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/2825073 | Oct 06 05:25 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: OK, I guess I got #Diaspora installed and running on the server side, need SSL certificate to take it live | Oct 06 05:25 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | "Is this up and running yet?" | Oct 06 05:25 |
| schestowitz_bed2 | No, I put that aside foir now Plenty of news to catch up with first, it's of higher priority. | Oct 06 05:26 |
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| schestowitz_bed2 | https://www.joindiaspora.com/posts/3144074 | Oct 06 05:52 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.joindiaspora.com | ## Hate the "Sign in to Chrome" spyware feature of Chrome? [ http://ur1.ca/fugr0 ] | Oct 06 05:52 |
| gulag2013 | I'm going to try this nice post | Oct 06 06:02 |
| DaemonFC | http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/nouveau/2013-September/014480.html | Oct 06 06:07 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | lists.freedesktop.org | [Nouveau] offer to help, DCB [ http://ur1.ca/folf8 ] | Oct 06 06:07 |
| DaemonFC | Nvidia says they will be releasing some open documentation of their cards. | Oct 06 06:07 |
| JimmyCarter | you can trust google unless theyre subpoenaed or national security lettered, or whatever the hip feds bully with these days | Oct 06 06:08 |
| DaemonFC | http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/nouveau/2013-September/014497.html | Oct 06 06:10 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | lists.freedesktop.org | [Nouveau] offer to help, DCB | Oct 06 06:10 |
| DaemonFC | "While I'm personally one of the guys who wouldn't like to see a binary | Oct 06 06:10 |
| DaemonFC | blob in nouveau, no matter the terms, I've read the firmware blobs | Oct 06 06:10 |
| DaemonFC | decompilation and I'm quite concerned about possible security implications." | Oct 06 06:10 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Oct 06 06:10 |
| DaemonFC | Nvidia doesn't care about security. They only care about performance. Their driver also cheats. It tries to detect what you're running and apply hacks to speed up the frame rate. | Oct 06 06:11 |
| DaemonFC | http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/nouveau/2013-September/014584.html | Oct 06 06:11 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | lists.freedesktop.org | [Nouveau] offer to help, DCB [ http://ur1.ca/fugub ] | Oct 06 06:11 |
| DaemonFC | "I need to retract my suggestion of Nouveau using NVIDIA's | Oct 06 06:12 |
| DaemonFC | binary-only microcode, at least until we get to a point where NVIDIA | Oct 06 06:12 |
| DaemonFC | has earned some trust from Nouveau in our microcode implementations." | Oct 06 06:12 |
| JimmyCarter | do they care about security performance ? ^^ | Oct 06 06:12 |
| DaemonFC | You don't earn trust by releasing binary-only firmware. | Oct 06 06:12 |
| DaemonFC | The only purpose of binary-only firmware is to hide things. | Oct 06 06:12 |
| DaemonFC | JimmyCarter, I've lost count of the number of times that Nvidia's driver has caused critical security issues. They also don't bother to patch them until someone releases a program that actually demonstrates how to exploit their driver. | Oct 06 06:13 |
| JimmyCarter | pretty soon someone will hack them with their exploits for their own software like adobe | Oct 06 06:14 |
| DaemonFC | Proprietary firmware in an otherwise open driver is better than an entirely proprietary driver. | Oct 06 06:14 |
| DaemonFC | That's the way AMD decided to go with their open source driver. | Oct 06 06:14 |
| gulag2013 | I'm naive, but why play with Nvidia at all ? | Oct 06 06:14 |
| JimmyCarter | some people need tflops | Oct 06 06:15 |
| DaemonFC | Better hardware than AMD, but the open driver is not very useful. | Oct 06 06:15 |
| DaemonFC | So if you use Nvidia, you're going to be stuck with the proprietary driver. | Oct 06 06:15 |
| DaemonFC | The Nouveau driver works with my graphics card, but it is painfully slow. | Oct 06 06:16 |
| DaemonFC | On really old Nvidia hardware, it sometimes works OK compared with the proprietary driver. | Oct 06 06:17 |
| DaemonFC | I think the biggest practical concern right now with Nvidia's proprietary driver is that they haven't commented on how well they plan to support Wayland or Mir. | Oct 06 06:18 |
| DaemonFC | http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/10/ubuntus-controversial-mir-window-system-wont-ship-with-13-10-desktop/ | Oct 06 06:21 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | arstechnica.com | Ubuntus controversial Mir window system wont ship with 13.10 desktop | Ars Technica [ http://ur1.ca/fugvy ] | Oct 06 06:21 |
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| DaemonFC | Ubuntu is conducting their negotiations with Nvidia and AMD regarding Mir support behind closed doors. | Oct 06 06:22 |
| gulag2013 | Hmm, All I know about Mir is that it is replacing X11 windows something. How will Mir improve the performance? | Oct 06 06:25 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think it will. | Oct 06 06:26 |
| gulag2013 | I don't understand Ubuntu's intentions with most of what they are doing. | Oct 06 06:27 |
| DaemonFC | The justification for replacing X in both Wayland and Mir's case is mostly that X does a lot of undesirable things that can't easily be fixed. | Oct 06 06:27 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: X11 is crap. | Oct 06 06:35 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: there is even talk of X12 once Wayland and Mir is in place. | Oct 06 06:35 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: List of undesirable is X11 secuirty does not work. Lets take screen savers they are repsonsable for handing non protected userpassword. | Oct 06 06:36 |
| gulag2013 | I don't know, they can do what ever they wish. There was a time I was excited but they flip flop in so many directions. I | Oct 06 06:36 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: history of X11 is horble. | Oct 06 06:37 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: what happens if the screensaver crashes on other systems? | Oct 06 06:37 |
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| oiaohm | MinceR: under Linux the desktop unlocks. | Oct 06 06:38 |
| MinceR | _other systems_ | Oct 06 06:38 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: Windows password dialog is handled by the login manager. | Oct 06 06:38 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: on the screensaver. | Oct 06 06:38 |
| MinceR | so, what if that crashes? | Oct 06 06:38 |
| oiaohm | If login manager crashes on windows you user session is terminated. | Oct 06 06:39 |
| MinceR | (as for protecting passwords, there's this >> http://www.openwall.com/tcb/ _ | Oct 06 06:39 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.openwall.com | tcb - the alternative to /etc/shadow | Oct 06 06:39 |
| MinceR | s/_/)/ | Oct 06 06:39 |
| MinceR | ic | Oct 06 06:39 |
| oiaohm | Basically failure should not be access. | Oct 06 06:39 |
| -->DaemonFC (~DaemonFC@unaffiliated/daemonfc) has joined #techrights | Oct 06 06:40 | |
| oiaohm | Some bugs Windows and Linux has. | Oct 06 06:42 |
| oiaohm | Like applications able to snoop on other applications windows without requiring permission. | Oct 06 06:42 |
| oiaohm | High secuirty OS's don't tollerate this. | Oct 06 06:43 |
| gulag2013 | Hmm sounds like Explorer and that knowing what you are typing in other windows. | Oct 06 06:43 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: one of the key differences of Mir and Wayland is no snooping on other applications without permission from the program controlling the screen output. | Oct 06 06:46 |
| oiaohm | Yep programs by default can only screenshot their own windows. | Oct 06 06:46 |
| gulag2013 | So that is bug in both Linux and Windows? | Oct 06 06:47 |
| oiaohm | Yep | Oct 06 06:47 |
| oiaohm | Fedora is dropping userspace X11 drivers. Or I am a super big security flaw. | Oct 06 06:47 |
| oiaohm | X11 userspace drivers require access to /dev/mem that is basically raw access to the complete system memory. | Oct 06 06:48 |
| gulag2013 | In what version, I want to test Fedora really soon | Oct 06 06:48 |
| oiaohm | userspace drivers are very old things gulag2013 | Oct 06 06:48 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: like you will not be attempting to use like s3 video cards right. | Oct 06 06:48 |
| gulag2013 | I really don't think so.. What is S3? | Oct 06 06:49 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: old type of video card | Oct 06 06:49 |
| oiaohm | verry old type of video car. | Oct 06 06:49 |
| oiaohm | card | Oct 06 06:49 |
| gulag2013 | Oh, This laptop is three years old, I highly doubt it. | Oct 06 06:50 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: no way in hell its in there. | Oct 06 06:51 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: we are talking almost 10 years ago was the last time they were made. | Oct 06 06:51 |
| gulag2013 | Ha ha, well I still plan on testing Fedora. I was thinking userspaces was Workspaces, I turned that of I don't use it. | Oct 06 06:53 |
| oiaohm | X11 first was design to be fully userspace. | Oct 06 06:54 |
| oiaohm | Nice big security holes. | Oct 06 06:54 |
| oiaohm | Then it evolved to a little kernel assisted but poorly done. | Oct 06 06:55 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo_jZYDzek8 This is a good watch for even just a few minor generations back in X11 drivers issues. | Oct 06 06:56 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.youtube.com | XDC2013: David Herrmann - DRM Security - YouTube [ http://ur1.ca/fuh2e ] | Oct 06 06:56 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: basically dri2 the last generation of X11 drivers for Linux has to be deprecated because it security flawed. | Oct 06 06:57 |
| gulag2013 | Okay, great I can do videos. This topic is a little hard for me to follow. A little sad for me, I was thinking Linux was more secure. | Oct 06 06:59 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: to be true Linux is more secure than Windows but that is serousally not hard. | Oct 06 07:00 |
| oiaohm | gulag2013: but compared to high rated secuirty OS's Linux is nothing. | Oct 06 07:01 |
| oiaohm | For desktop. | Oct 06 07:01 |
| gulag2013 | Yes, lol sounds like windows is a very low bar | Oct 06 07:01 |
| MinceR | it is | Oct 06 07:01 |
| MinceR | and what about macos? | Oct 06 07:01 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: macos for desktop is techically a head of Linux. | Oct 06 07:02 |
| gulag2013 | I read they just sneak in patches, so who knows the truth | Oct 06 07:02 |
| oiaohm | Please note the for desktop bit. | Oct 06 07:02 |
| oiaohm | Linux on server is a different game. Its the graphical side of Linux that has been insanely weak. | Oct 06 07:02 |
| oiaohm | the work on wayland really was a sign that people were serousally looking at the Linux desktop. | Oct 06 07:03 |
| oiaohm | And worked out that X11 could not be fixed. | Oct 06 07:03 |
| gulag2013 | Windows Metrofied Server 2012. Why Why Why | Oct 06 07:03 |
| MinceR | why does it exist or why do people use it? :> | Oct 06 07:04 |
| gulag2013 | Why would you add tiles to it | Oct 06 07:04 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: in my experience, linux has been ahead of osx graphically in quite a number of ways for quite some time-- and the ogl limitations of open source drivers were more of an issue in osx last I checked | Oct 06 07:04 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: secuirty wise OS X has been ahead. | Oct 06 07:05 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: graphical security? | Oct 06 07:05 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: mostly because OS X did the sane thing and not use X11 | Oct 06 07:05 |
| prurigro | how so? | Oct 06 07:05 |
| MinceR | what they did is not sane | Oct 06 07:06 |
| oiaohm | X11 basically has no graphical secruity. | Oct 06 07:06 |
| MinceR | the gui is supposed to be a selling point yet it can't maximize windows properly and it can't handle virtual desktops properly | Oct 06 07:06 |
| MinceR | the global menu bar is a usability failure | Oct 06 07:06 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: from a userablity point of view I would agree OS X is not sane. | Oct 06 07:06 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: in regards to what? display servers from other local display servers? | Oct 06 07:06 |
| MinceR | i thought so :) | Oct 06 07:06 |
| gulag2013 | The maximizing windows on OSX bugs me, | Oct 06 07:07 |
| prurigro | I got a mac a while back to see what the deal was and there were issues I was running into that I researched and found were essentially "problems with the osx ogl implementation" and that osx was not for games | Oct 06 07:07 |
| prurigro | but that's not really the topic | Oct 06 07:07 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: Like X11 does not include a proper screensaver handling. | Oct 06 07:07 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: does not include proper memory protections. | Oct 06 07:08 |
| gulag2013 | Ha ha, is that why I have to use caffeine to keep my videos playing | Oct 06 07:08 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: in fact for X11 to operate with other X11 applications you cannot setup secreen secuiryt. | Oct 06 07:08 |
| prurigro | should the display server be responsible for screensavers? memory protection I'll give you on shared servers and stuff, but you were talking about the desktop | Oct 06 07:08 |
| prurigro | well its host based right | Oct 06 07:08 |
| prurigro | so all or nothing at the localhost level | Oct 06 07:09 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: to be correct login manager should be in charge of screensaver in a lot of ways. | Oct 06 07:09 |
| MinceR | it doesn't have to be the login manager | Oct 06 07:09 |
| oiaohm | systemd-logind for wayland can run screensaver as independant instance. | Oct 06 07:09 |
| oiaohm | So screensaver dies and you have access to nothing. | Oct 06 07:10 |
| prurigro | gdm does a decent job these days I've found | Oct 06 07:10 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: exactly why is a login manager graphical. | Oct 06 07:10 |
| prurigro | word, but you still don't think this is secure enough? | Oct 06 07:10 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: you want the least possible running as root. | Oct 06 07:10 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Oct 06 07:11 |
| oiaohm | remember gdm is infact running as root. | Oct 06 07:11 |
| DaemonFC | watching Malcolm in the Middle | Oct 06 07:11 |
| DaemonFC | "They have advanced textbooks, and good teachers, and all sorts of things they don't want to waste on normal kids." | Oct 06 07:11 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: yeah, though if noone can remotely connect to gdm it shouldn't be an issue | Oct 06 07:11 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: no you are forgeting shared computers. | Oct 06 07:12 |
| oiaohm | Like in libraries. | Oct 06 07:12 |
| prurigro | well I wouldn't exactly define that as a desktop | Oct 06 07:12 |
| DaemonFC | I hated public school. I had to go there for a couple of years and felt like I was rotting. | Oct 06 07:12 |
| prurigro | those are more along the lines of terminals, in my experience | Oct 06 07:12 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: they can still be full desktop computers. | Oct 06 07:12 |
| oiaohm | Basically the complete design of X11 is just flawed all over the place. | Oct 06 07:13 |
| DaemonFC | When I went back to private school, I ended up finishing three years worth of material in a year and finishing high school at the age of 15. | Oct 06 07:13 |
| oiaohm | Like GDM is a hack. | Oct 06 07:13 |
| prurigro | sure, but you wouldn't have people staying logged in while others use them | Oct 06 07:13 |
| prurigro | in library | Oct 06 07:13 |
| prurigro | ies* | Oct 06 07:13 |
| DaemonFC | I've always been one to "rip the bandaid off". | Oct 06 07:13 |
| prurigro | if they were desktops | Oct 06 07:13 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: x11 was desing as a single user interface. | Oct 06 07:13 |
| DaemonFC | When something is unpleasant, I push myself to just get it over with. | Oct 06 07:13 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: instead of redesign it properly. | Oct 06 07:13 |
| oiaohm | items like GDM were invented. | Oct 06 07:13 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: remember running as root you can login to any user. | Oct 06 07:14 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: X11 came along when the idea of multiple people using the same computer (that wasn't a terminal) wasn't really feasible | Oct 06 07:14 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: no the first version of X11 was single user. | Oct 06 07:14 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: you don't think gdm drops permissions as soon as its launched? | Oct 06 07:14 |
| oiaohm | the multi user bit was added latter. | Oct 06 07:14 |
| DaemonFC | X11 is only slightly older than I am. | Oct 06 07:15 |
| DaemonFC | It hasn't aged well. | Oct 06 07:15 |
| prurigro | yeah, that's what I was saying-- it's not even really multiuser now-- just separate servers | Oct 06 07:15 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: it cannot because there was no background server to change from user to user. | Oct 06 07:15 |
| prurigro | what do you mean? | Oct 06 07:16 |
| MinceR | if it's the first version, it's X1, not X11 :> | Oct 06 07:16 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: no X11 was design as a extendable protocol. | Oct 06 07:17 |
| DaemonFC | "The first truly modular disaster." | Oct 06 07:17 |
| prurigro | are we on X11R7 yet? :) | Oct 06 07:17 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: display managers or like KDM/GDM. start the X11 server that is the user session. | Oct 06 07:17 |
| MinceR | i seem to remember that x.org is now X11R7 or something. | Oct 06 07:18 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: and that X11 server still runs as root. | Oct 06 07:18 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: wayland is infact design never to be running as root. | Oct 06 07:18 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: all root operations are pushed back to the logind or equal. | Oct 06 07:18 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: what do you suppose the gdm user and groups are on my computer for then? | Oct 06 07:18 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: that allows attempted steping down. | Oct 06 07:19 |
| prurigro | I'm pretty sure that's what the xserver would be run under | Oct 06 07:19 |
| prurigro | like, it doesn't need root to run X | Oct 06 07:19 |
| oiaohm | Only recent X11 with DRI2 got the means to run without root a little. | Oct 06 07:20 |
| prurigro | weird, my system shows gdm running "systemd" | Oct 06 07:21 |
| oiaohm | systemd places other wrappers around gdm. | Oct 06 07:21 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.amazon.com/forum/politics/ref=cm_cd_tfp_ef_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx1S3QSZRUL93V8&cdThread=Tx1X8DTHZCC4Y2L | Oct 06 07:21 |
| prurigro | hrm? what do you mean the means to run without root? | Oct 06 07:21 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.amazon.com | Amazon.com: Customer Discussions: US Military Will Use Drones to Spy on North Korea [ http://ur1.ca/fuh6z ] | Oct 06 07:21 |
| DaemonFC | ZOMG PINK PONIES says: | Oct 06 07:21 |
| DaemonFC | "Beginning next spring, the Air Force will fly several drones near North Korean borders to gather intelligence data on the reclusive country, where an estimated 24 million people live under oppression, sealed off from the rest of the world." | Oct 06 07:21 |
| DaemonFC | pfft.... | Oct 06 07:21 |
| DaemonFC | They've been doing that in a country of 300 million oppressed people that are increasingly sealed off from the rest of the world for over ten years. | Oct 06 07:21 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Oct 06 07:21 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: only with DRI2+ drivers. | Oct 06 07:21 |
| prurigro | X has always been able to run without root-- we were talking about *dms | Oct 06 07:21 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: to interface with screen X11 has always required root. | Oct 06 07:22 |
| oiaohm | Until dri2 | Oct 06 07:22 |
| prurigro | what about when you logged in as your user and ran "startx"? | Oct 06 07:22 |
| oiaohm | Then dri2 buffer handling was stuffed up and guessable. | Oct 06 07:22 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: that is a suid bitted as root | Oct 06 07:22 |
| prurigro | and X too? | Oct 06 07:23 |
| prurigro | it isn't on my machine | Oct 06 07:23 |
| prurigro | ahh, xorg is tho | Oct 06 07:23 |
| prurigro | well there ya go | Oct 06 07:24 |
| prurigro | learned something new :) | Oct 06 07:24 |
| oiaohm | Yep. | Oct 06 07:25 |
| oiaohm | Or in otherwords the first secuirty hole we want by by. | Oct 06 07:26 |
| prurigro | on a similar note, wayland is in serious need of full desktop support (which I hear gnome 3.10 is almost able to deliver now), but it worked quite nicely last I tested | Oct 06 07:26 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: gets worse when you start running more than 1 x11 session on a single video card and switching between them. | Oct 06 07:26 |
| brendyn | man, anyone know how to do javascript bullshit to download things begind jplayer buttons and ajax pages? | Oct 06 07:26 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: like with DRI2 and beffer only one set off buffers on the video card. | Oct 06 07:27 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: so lets play the magic dance of not step on each other. | Oct 06 07:27 |
| oiaohm | DRI3 is bring render nodes and other isolation things. | Oct 06 07:27 |
| oiaohm | Well and truely overdue. | Oct 06 07:27 |
| prurigro | brendyn: ajax will be exposed to everything that looks at the source once the page loads it (view source simply chooses to give ou the pre-ajax version, so grab developer tools or maybe it was firebug to view the newer sources) | Oct 06 07:28 |
| prurigro | brendyn: and then I think jplayer just has you drop the filename into its args iirc | Oct 06 07:28 |
| brendyn | prurigro: I need to do it systematically with tens of thousands of files on thousands of pages | Oct 06 07:29 |
| *brendyn promises he is up to no good | Oct 06 07:29 | |
| prurigro | oiaohm: word, yeah, I definitely had points back in the day where offscreens from one session were accidentally pasted into refreshing images on another display server session-- xgl helped a lot there | Oct 06 07:29 |
| prurigro | brendyn: hmm, I woner if wget or curl can trigger ajax... | Oct 06 07:29 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: the possiblity todo that is still in all current X11 servers. | Oct 06 07:29 |
| brendyn | i searched google but it really didnt look promising | Oct 06 07:30 |
| brendyn | i could not find much interesting in inspect element | Oct 06 07:30 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: basically X11 is a huge stuffed up mess. | Oct 06 07:30 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: this is why X12 is being considered after wayland. For a new remote X11 protocal with a huge stack of legacy stupidity killed. | Oct 06 07:30 |
| prurigro | brendyn: maybe use firebug to check what arguments are triggering the ajax to load new stuff, and then emulate that input using curl? | Oct 06 07:31 |
| brendyn | hmmm maybe, but its alright beyond my newby skills | Oct 06 07:31 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: ontop of wayland or as a more use-specific platform now that the desktop people won't be complaining? | Oct 06 07:32 |
| prurigro | brendyn: that's how you learn though! | Oct 06 07:32 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: wayland will be able to do remote very well using rendernodes and other things to send 3d grade graphics by VNC or RDP. | Oct 06 07:32 |
| brendyn | Oh wow, you're completely right. I had to click to expand (yet another) html div thingy before I could see the direct link | Oct 06 07:33 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: X12 will be attempt to get a more traffic compact protocol. | Oct 06 07:33 |
| brendyn | However, this still leaves the challange of making wget do it | Oct 06 07:33 |
| brendyn | I was thinking that It could be possible with some kind of javascript bookmarklet, but i dont even know javascript | Oct 06 07:33 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: oh sick-- that's actually a major fallback in the usability dept for X11; RDP style drawing, where a compressed image isn't what's required to be sent | Oct 06 07:34 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: RDP and VNC are both compressed image sends. | Oct 06 07:34 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: virtualgl prototype with X11 was also compressed image send but it did not work well because it was hacking the local video card drivers to work. | Oct 06 07:35 |
| brendyn | If i copy paste the link to wget I can download it, and i dont even need to use my login details | Oct 06 07:35 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: basically remote 3d acceated will become normal. | Oct 06 07:35 |
| prurigro | brendyn: I feel like you might have better luck with curl or something where you're speaking to the server rather than something attempting to download the html presented... though following links would be far less energy than curl | Oct 06 07:35 |
| brendyn | but traversing the page to get the link in the first place... :/ | Oct 06 07:35 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: X11 remote advantage is the means to send to client end what area of screen are of intest to applications. | Oct 06 07:36 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: so clicking else were does not result in network traffic that much. | Oct 06 07:36 |
| brendyn | hmm ok, but where to start. | Oct 06 07:36 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: word, yeah, that part I like too-- surely wayland could do that though since the whole 3d thing places each screen in a separate offscreen | Oct 06 07:37 |
| prurigro | brendyn: I've done something similar by using sqlite to create a temporary database of links each time it happens upon one (with an if statement checking it's in the domain I want checked), not adding duplicaes, and then going through one by one each time it gets to the end of the previous | Oct 06 07:38 |
| brendyn | holy shit | Oct 06 07:38 |
| brendyn | what about http://ubuntuincident.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/scraping-ajax-web-pages/ | Oct 06 07:39 |
| prurigro | used that to parse a giant intranet site and extract relevant information in the header and footer of each :) | Oct 06 07:39 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | ubuntuincident.wordpress.com | Scraping AJAX web pages (Part 1) | The Ubuntu Incident [ http://ur1.ca/fuh9q ] | Oct 06 07:39 |
| brendyn | second option uses webkit | Oct 06 07:39 |
| prurigro | ohh yeah, I forgot there was a cli version of webkit | Oct 06 07:39 |
| brendyn | reckon it would be fruitful to try it? | Oct 06 07:40 |
| prurigro | odds of getting it to easily give you the resulting ajax page are higher, so I'd say yes-- even if you do then have to do something fancy for a recursive scan | Oct 06 07:40 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: X12 also will move applications off screens into independant zones. So different handling to share buffers. | Oct 06 07:41 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: even when rendering 2d you mean? | Oct 06 07:41 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: even for 2d rendering. | Oct 06 07:41 |
| prurigro | (since it already does this sans memory protection in 3d) | Oct 06 07:41 |
| prurigro | interesting | Oct 06 07:41 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: you know X11 magic stuff. | Oct 06 07:41 |
| brendyn | the website has a page full of normal html links. i follow those, and then there are 5 ajax tabs that contain different collections of text and jplayer buttons that i need to download | Oct 06 07:41 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: this is really stupid. Over network X11 sends magic ID as plain text. | Oct 06 07:42 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: X11 without ssh wrapping is open to attack so many ways its not funny. | Oct 06 07:42 |
| prurigro | brendyn: you're going for the text too eh? I guess you could just get a list of links to parse the first time, then go through and wget each of those directly with a second script, as an alternative (assuming links aren't generated for the session) | Oct 06 07:43 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: Like at Univistory I use to be able to snoop on anyones screen because it was not encrypted. | Oct 06 07:43 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: yes X11 default spec says not encrypted. | Oct 06 07:43 |
| prurigro | oiaohm: they're probably relying on the networking solution being used to protect it no? like ssh? | Oct 06 07:43 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: what happens if you are logged into the same source matching. | Oct 06 07:44 |
| prurigro | university shoulda setup their vpn with encryption | Oct 06 07:44 |
| prurigro | it should be end to end | Oct 06 07:44 |
| prurigro | a different terminal shell shouldn't even be able to see it | Oct 06 07:44 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: but its not ssh wrapping. | Oct 06 07:44 |
| prurigro | yeah, but their vpn | Oct 06 07:44 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: same with vpn from same host. | Oct 06 07:44 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: ie traffic snooping same end. | Oct 06 07:44 |
| prurigro | wouldn't each terminal be a separate end point? | Oct 06 07:45 |
| oiaohm | Encrypted protocols beat VPN. | Oct 06 07:45 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: histroically no. | Oct 06 07:45 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: because cgroup network splitting is only recent invention and basically not used. | Oct 06 07:46 |
| prurigro | I'm a firm believer that the bottom network layer should be encrypted | Oct 06 07:46 |
| oiaohm | I am a firm believer that what should be encrypted should be encrypted when it enters the network stack anywhere. | Oct 06 07:46 |
| prurigro | word, cjdns would work, though that's too recent to be the solution used in schools | Oct 06 07:46 |
| prurigro | I actually like the idea of TRESOR on that note | Oct 06 07:47 |
| prurigro | though I don't feel like maintaining my own kernel fork of Arch's | Oct 06 07:47 |
| prurigro | tresor + cjdns would be encrypted for the local machine before entering the network stack, and then encrypted the moment it does thanks to cjdns | Oct 06 07:48 |
| prurigro | (the latter being encrypted for the destination) | Oct 06 07:49 |
| prurigro | I suppose at that point the only potential hole would be someone on the local machine with root access tcpdumping | Oct 06 07:49 |
| brendyn | I think there are latency critical tasks in various areas of science etc, such that mandatory encryption screws with that a bit | Oct 06 07:50 |
| prurigro | which would be solved by X encrypting the stream, true | Oct 06 07:50 |
| prurigro | I woudln't really trust a remote X session to be real time.. haha | Oct 06 07:50 |
| prurigro | also, the spec says no encryption is mandatory; oiaohm wasn't suggesting to make encryption mandatory, just remove the "you can't do that" | Oct 06 07:51 |
| <--gulag2013 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out) | Oct 06 07:51 | |
| oiaohm | prurigro: exactly encryption should be optional | Oct 06 07:51 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: not forbin | Oct 06 07:52 |
| prurigro | yeah- if people want every layer of their computer encrypted they should be able to | Oct 06 07:52 |
| brendyn | if network providers encrypt, you have no choice but to deal with the consequences | Oct 06 07:52 |
| prurigro | and ideally, people could use a encryption type of their choice | Oct 06 07:52 |
| oiaohm | allowing tcpdumping should not magically destroy eveyrone privacy. | Oct 06 07:52 |
| prurigro | true | Oct 06 07:53 |
| oiaohm | Thinking you might need to tcpdump to debug issues. | Oct 06 07:53 |
| prurigro | course, you want password + pub/priv key crypto if you wanna be post-quantum, so hopefully they'd include that | Oct 06 07:53 |
| prurigro | no sense in encrypting if your packets can be opened up in a couple years | Oct 06 07:54 |
| prurigro | well, a sense, but less of one than keeping your info secure for the foreseeable future | Oct 06 07:54 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: couple of years might be enough secuirty. | Oct 06 07:55 |
| oiaohm | Like to prevent insider trading. | Oct 06 07:55 |
| oiaohm | prurigro: encrypted is a question of are the objectives. Not all encryption has to have a long life. | Oct 06 07:58 |
| prurigro | true, it depends what you're protecting eh | Oct 06 08:02 |
| ---rysiek|pl is now known as ysio|pl | Oct 06 08:02 | |
| prurigro | I'd rather not need to think how long I need something hidden for (if at all) for some more generic things like remote desktop though | Oct 06 08:03 |
| brendyn | computers are probably the most frustrating thing in the universe | Oct 06 08:12 |
| DaemonFC | What the hell is up with edmunds.com? | Oct 06 08:12 |
| prurigro | s/frustrating/awesome | Oct 06 08:13 |
| DaemonFC | I went to look at the reliability rating for the Ford Freestar, and it lists "no major problems". | Oct 06 08:13 |
| DaemonFC | But it seems like anyone that has actually owned one reports that the transmission burns out about every 60,000 miles and they have other issues as well. | Oct 06 08:13 |
| DaemonFC | The engine seems to be the only good thing on the van (figures, since it's the same one they put on the F-150). | Oct 06 08:14 |
| iophk | http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-founder-asks-danish-authorities-to-drop-hacking-case-131006/ | Oct 06 08:14 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | torrentfreak.com | Pirate Bay Founder Asks Danish Authorities to Drop Hacking Case | TorrentFreak [ http://ur1.ca/fuhgq ] | Oct 06 08:14 |
| DaemonFC | Ford recalled a few hundred thousand of them to fix the transmission issue, but people that were paying to have the transmission repaired before the recall were paying about $2,800 for a rebuild. | Oct 06 08:15 |
| iophk | It would be remarkable if the Danes bring Gottfrid to court in spite of the Swedish judgment. It would mean, in principle, that one country after another could do this to him despite the acquittal, | Oct 06 08:15 |
| DaemonFC | As far as I can tell, Ford didn't recall the one that I was looking at, but I still don't want to risk any of my money on it. | Oct 06 08:15 |
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| brendyn | prurigro: i wonder if i could do it with emacs lol by loading the page to it, opening the js bullshit and then using macros to eat up the html and download stuff | Oct 06 08:39 |
| prurigro | brendyn: why on earth would you use emacs for that? haha, grep and sed should be plenty | Oct 06 08:40 |
| brendyn | because emacs can do everything | Oct 06 08:40 |
| brendyn | im still trying to figure out how to just open the god damn page | Oct 06 08:40 |
| prurigro | yeah, but grep and sed can be loaded into a script | Oct 06 08:40 |
| prurigro | once you get that, if you can output the text to your screen you're set | Oct 06 08:41 |
| brendyn | If I can actually get the generated html, then everything is downhill from there | Oct 06 08:41 |
| prurigro | grep -o -e is your friend (-o only returns the part that matches and -e is for regex) | Oct 06 08:41 |
| brendyn | ah didnt know that | Oct 06 08:41 |
| prurigro | so like \"http:\/\/domain[^\"]*\" or something, then snip the quotes with sed | Oct 06 08:42 |
| prurigro | or cut | Oct 06 08:42 |
| brendyn | I'll do that later. Currently I just want to figure out how to get through the javascript | Oct 06 08:42 |
| brendyn | ive managed to log in to the site with wget and save cookies | Oct 06 08:42 |
| prurigro | lol, not sure wget can handle ajax tho-- if you're not using that webkit thing | Oct 06 08:43 |
| brendyn | the internet tells me i cant do it | Oct 06 08:43 |
| prurigro | oh well, I'd trust the internet then | Oct 06 08:43 |
| brendyn | ;( | Oct 06 08:43 |
| brendyn | not sure how to use webkit | Oct 06 08:43 |
| brendyn | i wonder can i get to a login site with that too | Oct 06 08:43 |
| prurigro | you can almost definitely pass parameters | Oct 06 08:44 |
| prurigro | its webkit | Oct 06 08:44 |
| brendyn | how does one click an imaginary button :) | Oct 06 08:45 |
| brendyn | sorry but i just really fucking hate solving these problems so i have to ask for lots of help | Oct 06 08:47 |
| prurigro | brendyn: the button likely triggers a function or post that you can script | Oct 06 08:56 |
| brendyn | yeah | Oct 06 09:00 |
| brendyn | im trying to figure out logging to the site with phantomjs | Oct 06 09:00 |
| brendyn | anyway i have to sleep so ill try it later | Oct 06 09:04 |
| brendyn | thanks | Oct 06 09:04 |
| prurigro | haha good luck! | Oct 06 09:06 |
| prurigro | ciao | Oct 06 09:06 |
| iophk | http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/public-sector/2013/10/uk-debuts-first-open-standard.html | Oct 06 09:13 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.computerweekly.com | UK debuts first open standards with fanfare of kazoos - Public Sector IT [ http://ur1.ca/fuhyy ] | Oct 06 09:13 |
| iophk | "The ICT Strategy said document formats would be in the first tranche of compulsory open standards." | Oct 06 09:16 |
| iophk | but how far did they really get? | Oct 06 09:16 |
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| DaemonFC | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiCAJ8ULnaI | Oct 06 10:02 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.youtube.com | Jiffy Lube Scam Caught on Tape! - YouTube [ http://ur1.ca/fui6v ] | Oct 06 10:02 |
| DaemonFC | https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_626867&feature=iv&src_vid=wiCAJ8ULnaI&v=Pf6KY6rrqYU | Oct 06 10:12 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.youtube.com | Jiffy Lube still scamming customers! - YouTube [ http://ur1.ca/fui8i ] | Oct 06 10:12 |
| DaemonFC | Nobody should do an "engine flush". | Oct 06 10:12 |
| DaemonFC | ever | Oct 06 10:12 |
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| qu1j0t3 | http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/22595538/the-killing-of-tony-blair/posts/620363?at=BAh7B0kiCHVpZAY6BkVUaQKYgUkiC2V4cGlyeQY7AFRJIhgyMDEzLTExLTA2IDE2OjQ1OjMyBjsAVA%3D%3D--958c6efad5a3ca02e37d68e5c60a9ca15be2c538&ref=backer_project_update | Oct 06 12:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.kickstarter.com | The Killing of Tony Blair by George Galloway MP 24 hours to go! Kickstarter [ http://ur1.ca/fuiv6 ] | Oct 06 12:24 |
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| Sosumi | hum, George Galloway, the guy that was for the "Arab Spring" even through it was just another CIA masterminded event | Oct 06 13:44 |
| Sosumi | to kick "ditactors" who weren't playing ball with the US | Oct 06 13:44 |
| Sosumi | so now, thx to the arab spring we have Libya turned into safe heaven for Al-CIAeda, | Oct 06 13:46 |
| qu1j0t3 | right, we should certainly blame GG for that. | Oct 06 13:46 |
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| Sosumi | Tunisia into a meet the new boss, same or worst than the previous one | Oct 06 13:46 |
| Sosumi | Egipt and Syria got lucky after the general Sisi couped Morsi | Oct 06 13:47 |
| Sosumi | otherwise with Morsi and his british subservient Nuts Brotherhood we'd have got an egyptian incurssion into Syria | Oct 06 13:48 |
| Sosumi | so yeah Georgie boy is now saving his dirty face, but just like Farage, no breaking, no breaking of the money power of the city of london | Oct 06 13:51 |
| Sosumi | not to mention the whole free market demagogy, yeah derregulation so the big cartels can come and rape everyone's wallet | Oct 06 13:53 |
| Sosumi | got to love them all, Ron Paul, Farage, Georgie boy, Fat Tony... | Oct 06 13:55 |
| Sosumi | all work in different ways but they're all letal | Oct 06 13:55 |
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| MinceR | yeah, let's blame the free market for that :> | Oct 06 14:28 |
| ---ysio|pl is now known as rysiek|pl | Oct 06 14:49 | |
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| Sosumi | free market without its checks and balances only enables the already established cartels to be predatory on small businesses and on the ppl | Oct 06 15:37 |
| Sosumi | and it's the demagogy of free market that enables public and private sector to be in cahoots with each other | Oct 06 15:38 |
| MinceR | free market without its checks and balances is not a free market | Oct 06 15:38 |
| Sosumi | thanks to a thing called derregulation | Oct 06 15:38 |
| Sosumi | it's called anarcho-capitalism | Oct 06 15:40 |
| MinceR | i don't think that's what it's called | Oct 06 15:40 |
| Sosumi | no rules, no checks and balances and joe six pack gets screwed, as usual | Oct 06 15:41 |
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| sebsebseb | Oct 06 15:43 | |
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| Sosumi | http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2013/10/06/ouch_microsoft_no_longer_recommends_their_own_security_essentials_anti-virus_package | Oct 06 16:31 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.afterdawn.com | Ouch: Microsoft no longer recommends their own Security Essentials anti-virus package - AfterDawn [ http://ur1.ca/fuk2n ] | Oct 06 16:31 |
| Sosumi | lulz | Oct 06 16:31 |
| Sosumi | in a parallel universe: Ouch: Microsoft no longer recommends their own operating system | Oct 06 16:33 |
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| Sosumi | but ho well, AV software is kind of useless anyways | Oct 06 16:35 |
| MinceR | :> | Oct 06 16:35 |
| MinceR | especially m$'s | Oct 06 16:36 |
| Sosumi | and symatec's | Oct 06 16:36 |
| MinceR | their supposed anti-malware sofware stopped recognizing gator as malware when m$ was planning to buy claria | Oct 06 16:36 |
| MinceR | they are not just incompetent, they're evil | Oct 06 16:36 |
| Sosumi | symantec? well they're pretty bad | Oct 06 16:37 |
| MinceR | i meant m$ | Oct 06 16:38 |
| MinceR | but symantec is pretty horrible too | Oct 06 16:38 |
| Sosumi | M$ just likes to shoot themselves in the foot | Oct 06 16:38 |
| Sosumi | but instead of using a handgun they use a bfg9000 | Oct 06 16:39 |
| Sosumi | just like the latest outlook patch broke part of the thing | Oct 06 16:41 |
| Sosumi | or the new "puke" metro interface | Oct 06 16:42 |
| MinceR | http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/18/us-austria-water-idUSBRE98H0AG20130918 | Oct 06 16:49 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.reuters.com | Holy water in Austria unsafe to drink: researchers | Reuters [ http://ur1.ca/fuk64 ] | Oct 06 16:49 |
| Sosumi | they need to boil hell out of it | Oct 06 16:51 |
| MinceR | :> | Oct 06 16:51 |
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| MinceR | http://cdn.meme.li/i/jees7.jpg | Oct 06 17:57 |
| MinceR | gn | Oct 06 18:15 |
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