schestowitz	It's already out practically	May 07 00:00
schestowitz	Maybe not deployed yet	May 07 00:00
schestowitz	But it has been finalised for a while	May 07 00:00
schestowitz	3.0 crashed (ish) Sun's servers	May 07 00:00
schestowitz	Not a good launch	May 07 00:00
schestowitz	A shame that when the buzz is up and people come to get it there is no serverresoinse	May 07 00:01
oiaohm	Openoffice mirrors to all its mirrors before offical release notice.	May 07 00:01
schestowitz	Mirrors up, not links to them though	May 07 00:01
schestowitz	oiaohm: that's why they keep it so quiet still	May 07 00:01
oiaohm	With the number of users who want to download they need all of them.	May 07 00:01
oiaohm	Its the openoffice cycle.  You can normally if you know the first mirrors get openoffice 5 days before offical release.	May 07 00:02
oiaohm	Its also good testing any that sneek in while just in mirroring and complain of a fault they can go opps dud upload.	May 07 00:03
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schestowitz	I have some mirrors. hold on.	May 07 00:19
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/13/ooo-use-this-mirror-instead/	May 07 00:20
schestowitz	If you browser dirs you'll probably find 3.1	May 07 00:21
schestowitz	http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/ny1.mirror.openoffice.org/stable/3.1.0/	May 07 00:21
schestowitz	Got it.	May 07 00:21
schestowitz	Here is the place to download OpenOffice 3.1 ahead of everyone else: http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/ny1.mirror.openoffice.org/stable/3.1.0/	May 07 00:21
schestowitz	"  04-May-2009 "	May 07 00:22
schestowitz	See?	May 07 00:22
schestowitz	It has been going on for a while	May 07 00:22
schestowitz	50 millionx100mb	May 07 00:22
schestowitz	About 5 million gigabytes	May 07 00:22
schestowitz	5 petabyes	May 07 00:22
schestowitz	Funny... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tGxhpQlaIk&feature=channel	May 07 00:31
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seller_liar	I was thinking	May 07 01:01
seller_liar	How to promote ethics for people?	May 07 01:01
schestowitz	Sednt hem books :-)	May 07 01:06
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seller_liar	We need to write more criticism in mono apps	May 07 01:08
schestowitz	Adds them, please	May 07 01:09
seller_liar	ok	May 07 01:09
seller_liar	I will talk about mooonson	May 07 01:11
schestowitz	http://twitter.com/johndrinkwater/statuses/1719916425	May 07 01:11
schestowitz	Disgusting ^^	May 07 01:11
schestowitz	Heh. Moon Soon	May 07 01:12
schestowitz	Moon bye	May 07 01:12
schestowitz	Moon lie	May 07 01:12
seller_liar	Moon die!	May 07 01:16
Balrog	come on ... even Microsoft's sponsored ODF plugin performs better.	May 07 01:19
schestowitz	Balrog: I'm doing a post	May 07 01:20
schestowitz	It's very ugly	May 07 01:20
Balrog	ok.	May 07 01:20
Balrog	read the comments	May 07 01:20
Balrog	on the technet page	May 07 01:20
schestowitz	Hehe.	May 07 01:20
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mib_dfhj0s	look	May 07 01:30
mib_dfhj0s	http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php?title=Mono_Applications#Software_developed_with_Mono	May 07 01:30
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Balrog	seller_liar: what about it?	May 07 01:33
seller_liar	I have included criticism about moonsoon	May 07 01:33
Balrog	seller_liar: grammar could be better ;)	May 07 01:34
seller_liar	balrog: please fix  it	May 07 01:35
Balrog	"Mono promoters try to include moosoon to default gnome installation" is ambiguous	May 07 01:36
Balrog	seller_liar: what are you trying to mean by that?	May 07 01:36
seller_liar	Mono trolls will try to include moosoon in ubuntu	May 07 01:37
Balrog	seller_liar: I wouldn't criticize MIT/X11 over being permissive	May 07 01:38
Balrog	that's not a problem	May 07 01:38
Balrog	rather, lack of patent protection is	May 07 01:38
Balrog	plus GNU says MIT/X11 is ok	May 07 01:39
seller_liar	is ok but is not "good"	May 07 01:39
Balrog	but ok is not bad	May 07 01:39
seller_liar	gnu linux distros always shoould emphasize gnu gpl	May 07 01:40
seller_liar	mit x11 has a very old license  , novell uses a loty	May 07 01:40
Balrog	schestowitz: what do you think?	May 07 01:41
Balrog	should we criticize MIT/X11?	May 07 01:42
Balrog	I feel not	May 07 01:42
schestowitz	Just a moment....	May 07 01:42
seller_liar	But we need emphasize	May 07 01:42
seller_liar	More mit/x11 software than gnu gpl software is not good	May 07 01:42
seller_liar	Mit/x11 promotes what we are trying to destroy in years:	May 07 01:43
seller_liar	proprietary software	May 07 01:43
seller_liar	schestowitz: did you see?	May 07 01:47
oiaohm	Mit/X11 has its flaws.	May 07 01:49
seller_liar	novell promotes mit license	May 07 01:49
oiaohm	Should have a update lack ass protecton for user.	May 07 01:50
Balrog	oiaohm: does that mead we should call is bad and bash it?	May 07 01:50
seller_liar	novell de icaza , jeff waugh and other uses mit licenses in blog content	May 07 01:50
oiaohm	There is worse.	May 07 01:50
oiaohm	It could be MS-PL licence.	May 07 01:50
seller_liar	Ok , it ' s not a "bad license" ,	May 07 01:50
seller_liar	instead put a "weak license"/	May 07 01:50
oiaohm	License in need of update would be better.	May 07 01:51
oiaohm	It was good in its time.	May 07 01:51
seller_liar	but not now	May 07 01:51
seller_liar	today we have microsoft, ibm and all s*ck patents of world	May 07 01:51
oiaohm	Software without	May 07 01:52
oiaohm	restriction, including without limitation the rights to use,	May 07 01:52
oiaohm	copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell	May 07 01:52
oiaohm	copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the	May 07 01:52
oiaohm	Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following	May 07 01:52
oiaohm	conditions:	May 07 01:52
oiaohm	Read that from it.	May 07 01:52
oiaohm	Mit/X11 might still be legally soild.	May 07 01:52
seller_liar	but gplv3 is better	May 07 01:53
oiaohm	Because if the without limitation clause is taken to cover patents as well.	May 07 01:53
seller_liar	novell uses mit instead gpl v3 because microsoft	May 07 01:53
oiaohm	its still a good licence.	May 07 01:53
oiaohm	Really Mit/X11 needs a court case to test where patent fit into it.	May 07 01:53
Balrog	'rights to use' 'without limitation' sounds like a type of patent grant	May 07 01:54
seller_liar	please someone edit my comment	May 07 01:54
oiaohm	Its the unknown state around Mit/X11 that is causing its problems.	May 07 01:54
seller_liar	Put only "lack of protection against patents" and " more mit/x11 and less gpl is bad"	May 07 01:55
oiaohm	Its that we don't know if it provided patent protection or not seller_liar.	May 07 01:55
oiaohm	It wording it could.	May 07 01:56
seller_liar	oiaohm: gpl is more explicit and offers good terms	May 07 01:56
Balrog	schestowitz: Transmission now has a beta Qt version!	May 07 01:56
Balrog	in addition to the GTK+ one	May 07 01:56
schestowitz	Embrace, Extend and Expel:  Microsoft Wants to Toss IBM Out of ODF http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/06/embrace-extend-and-expel/	May 07 01:56
oiaohm	MIT is well worded.	May 07 01:56
oiaohm	Just it was presoftware patents.	May 07 01:56
oiaohm	And has not been tested with them.	May 07 01:57
oiaohm	If Mit/X11 tests find its still a good licence.	May 07 01:57
oiaohm	find/fine	May 07 01:57
oiaohm	Really if Mit/X11 turns out to protect patents Novell has some major headaches.	May 07 01:58
Balrog	We should ask SFLC	May 07 01:58
schestowitz	mit is good for MS	May 07 01:59
schestowitz	In case they buy Novell	May 07 01:59
schestowitz	They don;t want gplv3	May 07 01:59
oiaohm	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_license#Terms   BSD is weaker.	May 07 02:00
schestowitz	I see seller_liar raised this point already	May 07 02:00
oiaohm	Mit/X11 is reallly a very strongly worded licence.	May 07 02:00
schestowitz	I'm just catching  up	May 07 02:00
Balrog	BSD only talks about redistribution	May 07 02:00
Balrog	MIT talks about use as well	May 07 02:00
Balrog	<The MIT License states more explicitly the rights given to the end-user, including the right to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell the software.>	May 07 02:01
oiaohm	Software without restriction is also in the licence of MIT	May 07 02:01
oiaohm	Attempting to apply patents may be in direct breach of MIT licence.	May 07 02:02
oiaohm	Since you are attempting to apply a restriction.	May 07 02:02
oiaohm	I was always taught the simpler the contract the better.	May 07 02:02
oiaohm	MIT licence is a really simple contract.	May 07 02:03
oiaohm	It could be 100 percent unbreakable.	May 07 02:03
Balrog	MIT license says "Permission is granted ... to deal in the Software without restriction"	May 07 02:03
Balrog	We should ask SFLC	May 07 02:03
oiaohm	Also MS has published blocks of code under MIT as well.	May 07 02:04
oiaohm	Could be a real nightmare for MS.	May 07 02:05
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DaemonFC	schestowitz: http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2009/05/07/while-im-discussing-vista-why-do-whql-drivers-suffer-from-an-alarming-lack-of-quality/	May 07 02:14
DaemonFC	you may get a kick from this	May 07 02:14
oiaohm	Apparently windows has the same detection problems as Linux who would guess.	May 07 02:19
DaemonFC	"the European Union should place sanctions on the United States until such time that ICANN is transferred over to an international body." -Me	May 07 02:21
DaemonFC	heh	May 07 02:21
DaemonFC	it may sound odd hearing an American saying this, but it would protect us from our own government too	May 07 02:22
oiaohm	Usa still techinally owns IP control.	May 07 02:22
DaemonFC	so it puts that in my interests as well	May 07 02:22
DaemonFC	it would be a nightmare for all these anti-free speech organizations if they had to work over a dozen countries that control the internet	May 07 02:23
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DaemonFC	rather than just 1	May 07 02:23
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DaemonFC	if it was under the control of an international committee, than if a place got an order to remove the listing for say Wikileaks, that would only mean that our representative had to vote to do it	May 07 02:24
DaemonFC	it doesn't immediately get them what they want	May 07 02:24
DaemonFC	oiaohm: What's horrific with WHQL drivers is that Microsoft never updates them	May 07 02:27
DaemonFC	so the one they signed is likely the first version of that driver, from late 2006	May 07 02:27
DaemonFC	and that hundreds of bugs could have been fixed by now and they still have version 1.0	May 07 02:28
DaemonFC	for that reason, Vista really isn't much easier to set up than XP cause you still need drivers anyway	May 07 02:29
DaemonFC	every time I figure out what is crashing Vista and why, and fix it, it's time to find the next cause	May 07 02:30
DaemonFC	the Error Logging is non-existent	May 07 02:30
DaemonFC	so there are precisely a billion things that could have done it	May 07 02:31
DaemonFC	I think it was Mr. Green in the Garage, with a power sander	May 07 02:31
schestowitz	Don’t Let Novell (and Microsoft) Control GNU/Linux, Licences, and Open Office < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/06/microsoft-novell-control-dangers/ >	May 07 02:32
*schestowitz adds vista7 link for posting later		May 07 02:32
oiaohm	Very few people understand how much work goes into giving Linux hardware support.	May 07 02:33
schestowitz	US army has plans to hijack citiczens' computers	May 07 02:33
schestowitz	To attack with botnets	May 07 02:33
schestowitz	They also have documented plans to bomb botmasters, physically.	May 07 02:34
schestowitz	since 2007	May 07 02:34
DaemonFC	who said the army is doing that?	May 07 02:35
DaemonFC	I kind of doubt you'd get dozens of foreign governments to use Windows if it had that kind of a backdoor	May 07 02:36
oiaohm	Australian army is adding a cyber warfare department.	May 07 02:36
schestowitz	NetworkWorld	May 07 02:36
schestowitz	Be careful hecking routers	May 07 02:37
schestowitz	They could send F16s to your house	May 07 02:37
oiaohm	Internet could turn into a mess.	May 07 02:37
schestowitz	As Bush once put it (as well as everyone around him), "it could come in the form of a mushroom cloud"	May 07 02:38
oiaohm	Going to miss the F18's here.   Particular there anti-cop car with radar gun feature.	May 07 02:38
schestowitz	The 'War' on hackers	May 07 02:38
schestowitz	They already got rid of the word 'crackers'	May 07 02:38
schestowitz	"hackers" will be the new "enemy combatant"	May 07 02:39
oiaohm	USA has to do something.	May 07 02:39
oiaohm	There networks are leaking so badly you can almost get your hands on anything.	May 07 02:39
DaemonFC	anyone know any good 9read: CHEAP) TV cards that work out-of-box with most Linux distros?	May 07 02:39
DaemonFC	the info I've dug up is sketchy	May 07 02:40
oiaohm	From the video 4 Linux site DaemonFC?	May 07 02:40
DaemonFC	I have an AverMedia M780	May 07 02:41
DaemonFC	never worked with Linux	May 07 02:41
DaemonFC	probably never will	May 07 02:41
oiaohm	http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page  Basically the best information on that topic I know is is from there DaemonFC	May 07 02:43
DaemonFC	looks like Linux doesn't support any PCI-E tuners	May 07 02:44
DaemonFC	and therefore, probably most of the ATSC models go out the window too	May 07 02:45
DaemonFC	:(	May 07 02:45
DaemonFC	this is like the only thing Vista does well	May 07 02:46
seller_liar	I was thinking	May 07 02:46
DaemonFC	out-of-tree drivers are the devil	May 07 02:46
seller_liar	We cannot only criticise and analyze things	May 07 02:46
seller_liar	we need to promote things	May 07 02:47
DaemonFC	Fedora moves way too fast for those to be useful	May 07 02:47
oiaohm	Lot of the USB ones are support well.	May 07 02:47
oiaohm	And work supprisingly well.	May 07 02:47
DaemonFC	LVM still fails on Fedora 11 Preview	May 07 02:48
seller_liar	I don t use LVM	May 07 02:48
seller_liar	Fedora is crazy	May 07 02:48
seller_liar	Ferdore put securitylinux, LVM and other stupid things for user	May 07 02:48
seller_liar	I like fedore because of ethics ,but I dislike the package selection	May 07 02:49
seller_liar	Fedora is a technical distro	May 07 02:49
seller_liar	And packagekit sucks a lot	May 07 02:50
DaemonFC	http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/AVerMedia_AVerTV_Combo_PCIe_%28M780%29	May 07 02:51
DaemonFC	that's the card I have	May 07 02:51
oiaohm	So long term it might work.	May 07 02:54
oiaohm	Its not in the stack if it will never work ever.	May 07 02:54
DaemonFC	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127988	May 07 02:59
DaemonFC	according to the chatter, it works out of the box	May 07 02:59
DaemonFC	I might grab one when I get paid	May 07 02:59
seller_liar	The real solution for a good gnu linux distro for users is long term support	May 07 03:02
seller_liar	Separation  app and system	May 07 03:02
seller_liar	Ans Throw out the stupid packaging system	May 07 03:02
seller_liar	Use a new software model called application system	May 07 03:02
oiaohm	Long term solution will appear soon enough.	May 07 03:04
oiaohm	The tech to allow distributions to merge.	May 07 03:04
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seller_liar	But long term is not sufficient	May 07 03:04
seller_liar	All distros must distinct what is application and what is the system	May 07 03:05
oiaohm	Before windows we had like 20 OS's competing for top place.	May 07 03:05
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seller_liar	All distros mix everything ,. application with system	May 07 03:05
oiaohm	Not all.	May 07 03:05
seller_liar	Distro must support only the system ,not application	May 07 03:05
seller_liar	debian is crazy	May 07 03:06
seller_liar	debian support all system and applications	May 07 03:06
seller_liar	A good distro must support only:	May 07 03:06
seller_liar	kernel	May 07 03:06
seller_liar	xorg	May 07 03:06
oiaohm	There are some hypervisor role OS's out there.	May 07 03:06
seller_liar	a graphical enviroment	May 07 03:06
seller_liar	glibc	May 07 03:06
seller_liar	gnu api	May 07 03:06
oiaohm	xorg currnetly don't work on them.	May 07 03:06
seller_liar	and only this	May 07 03:06
oiaohm	eglibc its sainer.	May 07 03:06
oiaohm	After the changes in X11 go threw hypverisor and container based Linux's will be able to come into there own providing a OS that you can run any number of distributions you like.	May 07 03:08
DaemonFC`	http://www.avermedia.com/avertv/Product/ProductDetail.aspx?Id=431&tab=APDriver	May 07 03:08
DaemonFC`	Avermedia has Linux drivers for that	May 07 03:08
oiaohm	Interesting.	May 07 03:10
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DaemonFC`	wonder if I should get that	May 07 03:14
schestowitz	SCO threatened with Chapter 7 destruction < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/06/us_bankruptcy_trustee_chapter_7_request/ >	May 07 03:20
schestowitz	27 posts so far today in BN	May 07 03:20
schestowitz	marbux writes: ""Is it time for Rob to step down as chair? I think so.	May 07 03:22
schestowitz	"I'm not saying Microsoft (or anyone) should be the chair instead, but	May 07 03:22
schestowitz	I am saying that Rob is unfit as a leader given his inability to	May 07 03:22
schestowitz	separate his personal venom from his role as a leader in driving the	May 07 03:22
schestowitz	standard forward. It seems like a better approach to empower people on	May 07 03:22
schestowitz	the ODF TC who have a long-term view of the need to enable	May 07 03:22
schestowitz	interoperability, and to move those with more short-term	May 07 03:22
schestowitz	vendor-oriented agendas to the side."	May 07 03:22
schestowitz	Gray Knowlton, Rethinking ODF Leadership, Gray Matter (6 May 2009),	May 07 03:22
schestowitz	<http://blogs.technet.com/gray_knowlton/archive/2009/05/06/rethinking-odf-leadership.aspx>	May 07 03:22
schestowitz	Might be interesting to watch if this is prelude to a political battle	May 07 03:22
schestowitz	at OASIS to unseat Weir.	May 07 03:22
schestowitz	Best regards,	May 07 03:22
schestowitz	Paul"	May 07 03:22
schestowitz	"Microsoft calls for Rob Weir's resignation"	May 07 03:23
schestowitz	gn	May 07 03:29
seller_liar	gn roy	May 07 03:35
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DaemonFC	http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2009/05/07/disable-windows-vista-spywareharassment-nag-screen/	May 07 04:00
DaemonFC	I voted for it, before I voted against it.	May 07 04:00
DaemonFC	:P	May 07 04:01
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twitter	I'm having trouble posting a comment on BN	May 07 05:10
twitter	fucking spam filter says I can't add	May 07 05:11
twitter	3 + 11 is 14	May 07 05:12
twitter	"Error: You have entered the wrong sum in the spam protection field. Press the back button and try again."	May 07 05:12
twitter	ugh	May 07 05:12
twitter	As the trolls often taunted me on Slashdot, after making a post invisible, "There's 30 minutes of your life you won't get back."	May 07 05:17
twitter	broken on two browsers.  Konq and Epiphany.	May 07 05:19
twitter	It's nice to know that the wrong sums don't work either.	May 07 05:21
twitter	Oh well, here's my comment.	May 07 05:21
twitter	I'm afraid you got trolled when linking to the article, "<a href="http://dag.wieers.com/blog/are-there-too-few-people-who-understand-desktop-linux">Are there too few people who understand desktop Linux?</a>"  The author starts from a few general statements that sound good then he makes a bunch of projections from the Windows world onto free software.  He uses this base to conclude in a circular fashion that GNU/Linux is not ready f	May 07 05:22
twitter	After a long preamble about wanting software that does not suck life, he gets into projections.  He does not make them directly, because people would immediately recognize the lie.  Check it out:	May 07 05:22
twitter	<blockquote> high-maintenance, bleeding-edge Linux distributions, while very useful to the selected few, are not a nice fit for 99% of the market [like his mom] because they change too often, require work to update them and change often spurs breakage, instability or behavioral change. ... I am not interested in updating/upgrading my mom's computer whenever I pay a visit because the OS demands that from me. I'd rather do other thin	May 07 05:23
twitter	If the author was talking about all the Christmas time he's wasted fixing Windows, he'd have hit the nail on the head.  Unfortunately, he's talking about Ubuntu, Fedora and OpenSuse.	May 07 05:23
twitter	As someone who moved his family to free software eight years ago, I can say he's full of beans.  Distributions like Ubuntu and Mepis are easy to use, stable and trivial to upgrade.  My kids play games, my wife does her social browsing, everyone's email works and it is all rather painless.  I go years between upgrades and do precious little upkeep that's not adding new hardware.  My little brother looks after my mom's Windows dissas	May 07 05:23
twitter	The author rounds off his rant with some nonsense about scaling for large companies.  This is something achieved with separate tools that are easily able to manage just about any desktop but Windows.  Apparently, he's never assisted a Fortune 100 "upgrade."  I have, and it was a total pain in the rear where each and every computer needed individual attention for license verification and other nonsense.  Yes, the company in question	May 07 05:24
twitter	Non free software applications each have their individual quirks that change constantly and must be dealt with one at a time.  The process was as automated as it could be with netboots and a good GNU/Linux machine to serve binaries but it was truly painful.  People were able to "upgrade" about 4 computers per hour each.  It took dozens of people weeks to accomplish what is fully automated in the free software world.  Non free softw	May 07 05:24
twitter	Free software is here on the desktop both at home and at work.  Cooperation in freedom accomplishes tasks that non free software never will.   Please don't feed the trolls who deny it.	May 07 05:24
twitter	End Comment	May 07 05:25
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*Topic for #boycottnovell is: "Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications" [publicly logged]		May 07 05:40
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008		May 07 05:40
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DaemonFC	schestowitz: That's the convenient cop out for every hardware maker that doesn't want to either support Linux or open their drivers	May 07 05:53
DaemonFC	"It changes too much" "Which one would you like us to support?"	May 07 05:53
DaemonFC	What sucks is that a lot of hardware makers can't open source their driver even if they want to, cause they had to license something from someone else to begin with	May 07 05:54
DaemonFC	so they might not even own everything you'd need	May 07 05:54
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DaemonFC	I'm sure that's got something to do with AverMedia only releasing binary drivers	May 07 05:55
DaemonFC	there's probably a ton of stuff they licensed to go into their driver	May 07 05:55
twitter	A free driver would not be so hard to make.	May 07 05:56
twitter	There are plenty of good examples and hardware companies would do well to quit paying licensing fees for things like that.	May 07 05:57
DaemonFC	well, the choice I have is this	May 07 06:00
DaemonFC	buy a $50 TV tuner widget that has a closed source driver and official support	May 07 06:00
DaemonFC	or spend $90 and get one that is said to work with an open source driver, but that's unofficial and don't ask the company that made it for support	May 07 06:01
DaemonFC	not exactly a good choice	May 07 06:01
twitter	You could buy a used analog card for next to nothing and do all the recording you want.	May 07 06:02
DaemonFC	then again, if I save the $40, the company could decide that they won't support Linux anymore and the next release of my distribution may not work with their driver	May 07 06:02
DaemonFC	that linuxtv site has no clear list of models supported and by what drivers	May 07 06:03
twitter	there are better sites.	May 07 06:03
DaemonFC	this seems to be like 3d accelerators in 1999	May 07 06:03
twitter	there's a great photo gallery of BT878 hardware someplace.	May 07 06:03
DaemonFC	"I heard that this model works with that driver if you follow the 300 step installation"	May 07 06:04
twitter	My ATI wonder card works just fine	May 07 06:04
DaemonFC	I never paid it much attention when I bought the computer because I had never had a TV card before	May 07 06:04
twitter	It took a little set up.  I had to figure out that it registered itself as /dev/video0 instead of /dev/video	May 07 06:05
DaemonFC	so it's one of those things where you never thought you needed it til you saw what a cool idea it was :P	May 07 06:05
twitter	and /dev/dsp1 instead of /dev/dsp which are VLC defaults with Lenny	May 07 06:05
DaemonFC	heh, then I have to wonder if VLC for Linux would work right if I tried to use it to watch the stream	May 07 06:06
twitter	It's only cool if you are actually watching TV.	May 07 06:06
twitter	Streaming and recording work well with VLC.	May 07 06:06
DaemonFC	on Vista it just makes my TV stream go black and then the card won't work til I reboot	May 07 06:06
twitter	Nothing works with Vista and newer "HD" capture cards are all DRM encumbered.	May 07 06:07
DaemonFC	I know it's not any fancy DRM or anything	May 07 06:07
twitter	DRM is baked in.	May 07 06:07
DaemonFC	AverMedia Center lets you record the streams to anything that DirectShow supports	May 07 06:07
DaemonFC	even Theora	May 07 06:07
DaemonFC	:P	May 07 06:07
twitter	I don't know AverMedia.	May 07 06:08
twitter	VLC works for me.	May 07 06:08
DaemonFC	it seems like it would be an awful lot of trouble to intentionally corral someone into using software where they can still do anything they want	May 07 06:08
DaemonFC	that just smells of a bug to me	May 07 06:08
twitter	Someone seems to have corraled you into Vista.	May 07 06:09
twitter	Good luck.	May 07 06:09
DaemonFC	well, with hardware where manuals are written in Engrish	May 07 06:09
DaemonFC	only expect them to make any effort to support Windows	May 07 06:09
DaemonFC	if that	May 07 06:09
twitter	http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/179019	May 07 06:09
twitter	Just get a used card and any GNU/Linux distribution.	May 07 06:10
DaemonFC	Windows doesn't degrade any HD movie that isn't encoded with that flag	May 07 06:11
twitter	If you have a digital TV converter box, you can record 640x480 and it's close to DVD quality.	May 07 06:11
DaemonFC	and not even Blu Ray uses that (yet)	May 07 06:11
DaemonFC	it's not going to mangle your home movies :P	May 07 06:11
twitter	Vista will degrade your own home movies.	May 07 06:11
twitter	Yes it does.	May 07 06:11
twitter	I've got links to at least two articles where people report just that.	May 07 06:12
twitter	http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/181193	May 07 06:12
twitter	http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/13/0249222	May 07 06:12
DaemonFC	oh, you're talking about the HDCP handshake	May 07 06:13
DaemonFC	and no, it doesn't degrade your stuff	May 07 06:13
DaemonFC	I use a DVI connector and have not had that happen	May 07 06:13
DaemonFC	maybe over VGA, but damn	May 07 06:13
twitter	why should it label your movie "premium content" and degrade it to over VGA?	May 07 06:15
twitter	Does M$ really want my GNU/Linux laptop to do a better home theater, through a VGA projector, than an expensive Vista media PC?	May 07 06:15
DaemonFC	I didn't say it did	May 07 06:16
DaemonFC	I meant I don't use VGA, so Iall I know is it doesn't over DVI	May 07 06:16
twitter	Why would you trust your media to a company that does that?	May 07 06:17
twitter	What if they decide they want to kill DVI the way they seem to want to kill VGA?	May 07 06:17
DaemonFC	So far even Windows 7 doesn't do that	May 07 06:17
DaemonFC	the content protection token is theoretically embedded into commercial HD content like Blu Ray	May 07 06:18
DaemonFC	but no titles even use it yet	May 07 06:18
twitter	As you say, it does not make sense to corral people into something they don't have control over, which is why they aim to kill SPDIF, VGA and other DRM free interfaces.	May 07 06:18
DaemonFC	so I would call BS on anyone claiming to have been affected by it	May 07 06:18
twitter	Go argue with Gutmann.	May 07 06:19
DaemonFC	I still use analog jack for my speakers	May 07 06:19
twitter	I'll keep my media free thank you.	May 07 06:19
DaemonFC	well, it's not doing anything to me	May 07 06:19
twitter	yet	May 07 06:19
twitter	you would be better off with firewire raw capture and edit	May 07 06:20
twitter	save to the format you want	May 07 06:20
twitter	Part of your TV card problem may be poor driver support.  I don't think industry has recovered from the last minute pull of XP's drivers from Vista.  http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/03/2052255	May 07 06:22
twitter	I'm not sure they want to do M$ that favor either.	May 07 06:22
DaemonFC	Vista supports WDM	May 07 06:23
twitter	what's that?	May 07 06:23
DaemonFC	technically any WDM driver should work on 98/Me, 2000, XP, Server 2003, Vista, Server 2008, and 7	May 07 06:23
DaemonFC	yes, any WDM driver should still work in 98	May 07 06:23
DaemonFC	even if it's not supported	May 07 06:23
DaemonFC	Vista and 7 support WDDM as well, but that's only for display drivers	May 07 06:24
DaemonFC	They also support NDIS 6 and 5	May 07 06:24
twitter	technically, that's correct.  I have a web cam that did not work with 98 and I doubt it would work with Vista.	May 07 06:24
DaemonFC	so you can use 2000/XP wifi drivers in a pinch	May 07 06:24
DaemonFC	but not recommended	May 07 06:24
DaemonFC	places that made devices for Windows 98 did not usually use WDM	May 07 06:25
DaemonFC	they usually used VxD	May 07 06:25
twitter	please stop.	May 07 06:25
DaemonFC	which died with Windows Me	May 07 06:25
twitter	I remember the error messages.	May 07 06:25
DaemonFC	Microsoft didn't publicize WDM support all that well	May 07 06:26
DaemonFC	so companies kept making Windows 95 style drivers	May 07 06:26
DaemonFC	:D	May 07 06:26
twitter	you will give me nightmares of trying to make hardware work with shiny disks and floppies that never really work.	May 07 06:26
twitter	I'm so much happier with free software.	May 07 06:26
DaemonFC	what was fun.....was VxD drivers BEFORE System File Protection	May 07 06:27
DaemonFC	oh boy you were in for a treat	May 07 06:27
DaemonFC	especially with no name hardware	May 07 06:27
DaemonFC	:P	May 07 06:27
twitter	"no name hardware" has the same chipsets as branded shit.	May 07 06:27
DaemonFC	meh, sometimes	May 07 06:28
DaemonFC	Hint: If the software says "Backuping your BIOS"	May 07 06:28
twitter	brand name often means little more than advertising budget	May 07 06:28
DaemonFC	time to clutch the arms of the chair	May 07 06:28
DaemonFC	:D	May 07 06:28
twitter	you can keep it	May 07 06:28
DaemonFC	miraculously it survived	May 07 06:29
DaemonFC	oh, they do a shitty job at AMI	May 07 06:29
DaemonFC	I've had to update my BIOS at least 6-7 times	May 07 06:29
DaemonFC	because of the dumbest things	May 07 06:29
DaemonFC	Linux will say "AMI BIOS detected, BIOS may corrupt low memory, working around it"	May 07 06:30
DaemonFC	in other words "Fuck this, I don't trust that thing"	May 07 06:30
DaemonFC	:)	May 07 06:30
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mib_d2wzmi	Hey, anyone home?	May 07 06:36
DaemonFC	twitter: In most tasks, Vista is 2-3% slower than XP	May 07 06:42
DaemonFC	the dramatic fringe cases of DRM holocaust can't possibly happen til the content degradation token is flipped on for Blu Ray Discs	May 07 06:43
DaemonFC	(Which I don't even have the drive for)	May 07 06:43
DaemonFC	what is just sad is the quality of the drivers	May 07 06:44
mib_d2wzmi	content degradation?	May 07 06:44
DaemonFC	anyway, most of the benchmarks between Vista and XP are from after Vista RTM was just out and the video drivers were not all that great	May 07 06:45
DaemonFC	Vista will degrade Blu Ray to about 10% higher resolution than a standard DVD if you don't have an HDCP connection *and* the movie studio has encoded the disc to ask for that	May 07 06:46
DaemonFC	(which no discs do yet and won't for at least another year)	May 07 06:46
mib_d2wzmi	oh... i thought they will eraze the hd-dvd...	May 07 06:46
mib_d2wzmi	that would really degrade things :)	May 07 06:46
DaemonFC	HD-DVD is dead	May 07 06:46
mib_d2wzmi	details... you know what i mean :)	May 07 06:47
DaemonFC	that was the format Microsoft was backing	May 07 06:47
DaemonFC	the reason the industry disowned it was because it was permanently cracked	May 07 06:47
mib_d2wzmi	well, bd had that virual machine thingy to run custom protection code	May 07 06:48
DaemonFC	I wonder if twitter is aware of AnyDVDHD	May 07 06:48
DaemonFC	which can strip a Blu Ray of all the DRM and make an unencrypted copy	May 07 06:48
DaemonFC	even on Vista	May 07 06:48
mib_d2wzmi	ugh, Vista	May 07 06:48
DaemonFC	I've ran it on Windows 7, and it still works	May 07 06:49
mib_d2wzmi	they can kill the hack though	May 07 06:49
mib_d2wzmi	by revoking the key anyDVD is using	May 07 06:49
DaemonFC	it doesn't use a key	May 07 06:50
mib_d2wzmi	hmm... i wonder	May 07 06:50
DaemonFC	and it has a heuristic mechanism	May 07 06:50
mib_d2wzmi	weakness in the encryption?	May 07 06:50
DaemonFC	yeah, I believe so	May 07 06:50
mib_d2wzmi	nice...	May 07 06:50
DaemonFC	I mainly use it to remove region coding crap	May 07 06:50
DaemonFC	then you can play the copy on any DVD player	May 07 06:50
mib_d2wzmi	hope nobody will have to go to jail for that... unlike dvd crack	May 07 06:50
mib_d2wzmi	what happened to that kid, the one who cracked dvd?	May 07 06:51
DaemonFC	http://www.slysoft.com/en/anydvd.html	May 07 06:51
DaemonFC	Jon Johanson?	May 07 06:51
DaemonFC	or however you spell that?	May 07 06:51
mib_d2wzmi	ya	May 07 06:51
mib_d2wzmi	him	May 07 06:51
mib_d2wzmi	btw... openSuse can't play DVDs well... i had to jump hoops to get it working	May 07 06:53
mib_d2wzmi	ubuntu works much better for some reason	May 07 06:53
DaemonFC	PACKMAN repo	May 07 06:53
mib_d2wzmi	yeah, packman repo didnt work with suse	May 07 06:53
DaemonFC	don't they have libdvdcss2?	May 07 06:53
mib_d2wzmi	they do, i got it, but vlc wouldn't play any dvds	May 07 06:53
mib_d2wzmi	kmplayer worked, but was a bit buggy	May 07 06:54
DaemonFC	you also need the VLC from Packman	May 07 06:54
DaemonFC	not the one from Suse	May 07 06:54
mib_d2wzmi	oh, that's probably one	May 07 06:54
DaemonFC	:)	May 07 06:54
mib_d2wzmi	doesnt matter anyome, i ditched suse	May 07 06:54
mib_d2wzmi	i was using tomboy, but then i found it's using mono	May 07 06:54
mib_d2wzmi	then i ditched suse	May 07 06:54
DaemonFC	their quality has really been shot to hell with the 11.x series	May 07 06:55
mib_d2wzmi	yeah, kde4 integration was bad	May 07 06:55
mib_d2wzmi	i mean it wasnt even stable to release with	May 07 06:55
mib_d2wzmi	though that's the reason i went with suse, to try out kde4	May 07 06:55
DaemonFC	well, I really don't like Mono, not just the patent kerfluffle	May 07 06:55
DaemonFC	but it's not even directly comaptible with .Net	May 07 06:56
mib_d2wzmi	yeah, what's the point	May 07 06:56
DaemonFC	so I'm not even sure why anyone would use it	May 07 06:56
mib_d2wzmi	i use java	May 07 06:56
mib_d2wzmi	so i dislike .net in general	May 07 06:56
mib_d2wzmi	it's blatant java rip off	May 07 06:56
mib_d2wzmi	for no reason	May 07 06:56
DaemonFC	I try not to use either	May 07 06:56
DaemonFC	I have one JAVA app on this machine	May 07 06:56
DaemonFC	thats Azureus/Vuze	May 07 06:57
mib_d2wzmi	oh, limewire is java as well... that's about it for notable java apps	May 07 06:57
mib_d2wzmi	for some reason it never took off as much for desktop apps	May 07 06:57
DaemonFC	Well, Peerguardian doesn't work on Vista x64	May 07 06:58
DaemonFC	and Azureus is the only decent client that can do blocklisting within the client itself	May 07 06:58
mib_d2wzmi	oh	May 07 06:58
mib_d2wzmi	nothing works well on vista... due to compatibity issues	May 07 06:59
mib_d2wzmi	too many changes in the api	May 07 06:59
DaemonFC	well, Peerguardian has a kernel mode driver	May 07 06:59
mib_d2wzmi	oh	May 07 06:59
DaemonFC	and it can't load it on Vista x64 because it's not signed	May 07 06:59
mib_d2wzmi	why use vista :)	May 07 07:00
mib_d2wzmi	it's like a drug... you know it's bad but cant help it	May 07 07:01
DaemonFC	I think I'll probably be buying a Mac next time	May 07 07:04
mib_d2wzmi	Macs are nice, if you have the cash	May 07 07:05
mib_d2wzmi	So Vista gives no option to accept unsigned drivers?	May 07 07:07
mib_d2wzmi	That would mean MS has the ability to push vendors off the market by not accpting their drivers	May 07 07:08
DaemonFC	they used to let you install unsigned drivers if you selected that option from a boot menu	May 07 07:10
DaemonFC	there was an app you could install that hit F8 and selected the No Driver Signaqture Check option every boot	May 07 07:11
DaemonFC	but MS got rid of that in SP1 and later	May 07 07:11
mib_d2wzmi	interesting	May 07 07:11
DaemonFC	Microsoft claims it's for security purposes	May 07 07:11
DaemonFC	to prevent viruses from hijacking the kernel	May 07 07:11
DaemonFC	:P	May 07 07:12
mib_d2wzmi	yeah... but it's not stopping the viruses	May 07 07:12
DaemonFC	http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsvistasecurity/archive/2006/08/11/695993.aspx	May 07 07:12
DaemonFC	An Introduction to Kernel Patch Protection	May 07 07:12
mib_d2wzmi	i was installing drivers for my wireless, they werent sighned for xp	May 07 07:12
mib_d2wzmi	and the box advertised linux compatibility	May 07 07:12
mib_d2wzmi	so i did a little research and the company actually open sourced their drivers	May 07 07:13
mib_d2wzmi	i guess they couldnt get MS to sighn it, so instead they tried to target linux users	May 07 07:13
DaemonFC	but SP1 also introduced a documented way for antivirus to hook into the kernel	May 07 07:13
DaemonFC	so I think the lack of Peerguardian support is just shoddy development on their end	May 07 07:14
DaemonFC	there's no reason they couldn't just use the same kernel hooks as an antivirus	May 07 07:14
mib_d2wzmi	im sure drivers require different hooks	May 07 07:14
DaemonFC	some drivers will still install without a signature	May 07 07:14
DaemonFC	if you install a beta Nvidia driver, Windows will bitch	May 07 07:15
DaemonFC	but you can override it	May 07 07:15
mib_d2wzmi	im sure big companies have less problems with it	May 07 07:15
mib_d2wzmi	its the small fishes that get fried due to budget limits	May 07 07:15
mib_d2wzmi	you have to write one driver for xp, another one for vista... another one for mac, and somethign for linux	May 07 07:17
mib_d2wzmi	instead of one driver, you have to write 4	May 07 07:17
mib_d2wzmi	and keep em up to date	May 07 07:17
mib_d2wzmi	unless you have good sales on your product, taht would cost too much	May 07 07:18
mib_d2wzmi	and im sure ms driver certification is not free	May 07 07:18
DaemonFC	$500 a year	May 07 07:19
mib_d2wzmi	that's not too bad	May 07 07:20
DaemonFC	"Windows Vista includes the "Windows Filtering Platform", which enables software to perform network oriented activities such as packet inspection and other activities necessary to support firewall products."	May 07 07:20
DaemonFC	so Peerguardian could be made Vista compatible with no hooking into the kernel	May 07 07:20
mib_d2wzmi	well... maybe they dont like to work with vista :)	May 07 07:20
mib_d2wzmi	after all the negative buzz generated around it and anticipation of win 7 many dev simply ignore vista	May 07 07:21
DaemonFC	Vista and 7 are pretty compatible with each other	May 07 07:21
DaemonFC	I imagine that most software stamped "Windows 7" will work with Vista	May 07 07:22
mib_d2wzmi	so then windows 7 must be as bad as vista...	May 07 07:23
DaemonFC	it's not really all that different	May 07 07:23
DaemonFC	People will develop Vista software one way or the other	May 07 07:24
mib_d2wzmi	probably	May 07 07:24
mib_d2wzmi	i use java, so it will run anywhere anyway	May 07 07:24
mib_d2wzmi	don't ahve to deal with all the platform issues	May 07 07:25
DaemonFC	schestowitz: http://www.pcworld.com/article/164485/windows_7_rc_benchmarks.html	May 07 07:25
DaemonFC	Speed Test: Windows 7 May Not Be Much Faster Than Vista	May 07 07:25
DaemonFC	marginally faster than Vista	May 07 07:25
DaemonFC	we're talking 1%	May 07 07:26
DaemonFC	or less	May 07 07:26
DaemonFC	so it's basically a tie	May 07 07:26
mib_d2wzmi	well... the question is... it wont matter	May 07 07:26
mib_d2wzmi	people will buy into the marketing buzz and buy it anyway	May 07 07:27
mib_d2wzmi	its all about marketing	May 07 07:27
mib_d2wzmi	and bribing the right people	May 07 07:27
DaemonFC	they got to the Nero 7 test and noticed Windows 7 is 10-15% faster	May 07 07:28
DaemonFC	that's not really the case	May 07 07:28
mib_d2wzmi	why not	May 07 07:28
DaemonFC	if you install proper chipset drivers for your motherboard, then you should have optimized hard disk controller drivers in Vista	May 07 07:29
DaemonFC	the ones that come with Vista work, but they're not optimal	May 07 07:29
DaemonFC	the only difference seems to be is that Vista has better default drivers	May 07 07:29
mib_d2wzmi	you mean the other way around	May 07 07:30
DaemonFC	the 7-8% boost on Autodesk is also easily explained	May 07 07:30
DaemonFC	DirectX 11	May 07 07:30
DaemonFC	which will be backported to Vista	May 07 07:30
mib_d2wzmi	ogl > directX :)	May 07 07:31
mib_d2wzmi	until ID software says otherwise	May 07 07:31
DaemonFC	they use both	May 07 07:32
mib_d2wzmi	yeah	May 07 07:32
mib_d2wzmi	to port x-box	May 07 07:32
DaemonFC	they also use DirectX on Windows	May 07 07:32
DaemonFC	they only use OpenGL on OS X and Linux	May 07 07:32
mib_d2wzmi	Quake 3 was ogl	May 07 07:33
DaemonFC	OpenGL has become a train wreck	May 07 07:33
mib_d2wzmi	so was doom 3	May 07 07:33
DaemonFC	OpenGL 3 was supposed to be revolutionary and so much infighting broke out	May 07 07:33
mib_d2wzmi	ogl hasnt changed much, they've added a bit here and there	May 07 07:33
DaemonFC	it became a few piddly extensions	May 07 07:33
mib_d2wzmi	yeah, but the thing is	May 07 07:33
mib_d2wzmi	all the changes are api changes	May 07 07:34
mib_d2wzmi	it gets the job done either wa	May 07 07:34
mib_d2wzmi	all the big fuss coming from developers claiming it's hard to use	May 07 07:34
mib_d2wzmi	though it aint that hard	May 07 07:35
mib_d2wzmi	there is no breakthrough	May 07 07:36
mib_d2wzmi	you have api, you keep adding features as hardware gets more sophisticated	May 07 07:36
mib_d2wzmi	MS always markets things as WOW, BREAKTHROUGH, OMFG, SO COOL	May 07 07:37
mib_d2wzmi	but on the back end it's a couple of new features on top of the same old concepts	May 07 07:37
DaemonFC	I'm just not real thrilled with OpenGL 3	May 07 07:39
DaemonFC	a day late and a dollar short?	May 07 07:39
DaemonFC	:)	May 07 07:39
mib_d2wzmi	that's how it goes with standarts	May 07 07:41
mib_d2wzmi	they will eventually evolve, just some influential companies don't want to rewrite their stuff for ogl3	May 07 07:41
mib_d2wzmi	backwards compatibility is important	May 07 07:42
mib_d2wzmi	games with relaxed requirements get consumed more, take World of Warcraft for example... you never needed newest stuff to run it	May 07 07:43
mib_d2wzmi	the game market lags a couple of years behind the hardware market, so they have plenty of room to react	May 07 07:43
DaemonFC	meh, I don't want to sing high praises for DirectX or anything, but it gets developed much faster	May 07 07:44
DaemonFC	the people behind OpenGL 3 just argued their way into second place	May 07 07:44
mib_d2wzmi	when i see directX on all the platforms, i'll consider it :)	May 07 07:46
DaemonFC	they either need to throw the CAD people overboard, throw the gaming people overboard, or develop separate dialects for each purpose	May 07 07:46
DaemonFC	the third option is where they're going with this	May 07 07:46
mib_d2wzmi	i think people are overreacting	May 07 07:46
mib_d2wzmi	as far as i'm concerned ogl works just fine	May 07 07:47
mib_d2wzmi	the problem is on the side of writing the drivers, not as much on the side of using ogl	May 07 07:47
mib_d2wzmi	they have big api - harder to write drivers	May 07 07:47
mib_d2wzmi	but when using it - don't use what you don't want...	May 07 07:48
mib_d2wzmi	the whole ogl3 was supposed to make it easier to write drivers by dumping some functionality	May 07 07:48
mib_d2wzmi	and make things "prettier" when using the api	May 07 07:48
mib_d2wzmi	but the fact it - it still works either way, provides the same features and equally fast	May 07 07:48
mib_d2wzmi	they could do better for sure... but it's not as bad as many people believe	May 07 07:49
DaemonFC	something that I won't give up though is FLAC	May 07 08:22
DaemonFC	:P	May 07 08:22
mib_d2wzmi	no, you must give it up NOW	May 07 08:28
mib_d2wzmi	or else... :)	May 07 08:28
*DaemonFC beats mib_d2wzmi over the head with Intervideo PC Friendly		May 07 08:28
DaemonFC	:P	May 07 08:28
DaemonFC	Vista doesn't support holding down SHIFT to disable Autoplay	May 07 08:29
DaemonFC	you have to turn it off from the control panel	May 07 08:29
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schestowitz	Weird. BN gives many error pages	May 07 09:20
DaemonFC	I'm getting used to bizarre errors that take a ludicrous amount of time to debug	May 07 09:21
DaemonFC	:P	May 07 09:21
schestowitz	Maybe it's related to server load. I don't know...	May 07 09:22
DaemonFC	I was not amused by the wifi driver that comes with Vista, kills Vista bug	May 07 09:22
DaemonFC	but googling it shows me that I'm far from alone in experiencing this	May 07 09:22
DaemonFC	looks like the problem lives on into Windows 7 with some cards	May 07 09:23
DaemonFC	I never had that problem on XP	May 07 09:24
DaemonFC	I wonder what the hell they did	May 07 09:24
schestowitz	We get loads of traffic so it chokes	May 07 09:29
DaemonFC	schestowitz: Looks like Rupert Murdoch's Empire of Lies over at the Fixed Noise Network is collapsing	May 07 09:29
schestowitz	All sorts of things give error messags	May 07 09:29
schestowitz	brb	May 07 09:29
schestowitz	DaemonFC: URL?	May 07 09:30
DaemonFC	watching Keith Olbermann	May 07 09:30
schestowitz	I'm sure he'll be bailed out	May 07 09:30
schestowitz	(Fox)	May 07 09:30
DaemonFC	apparently Fox News is going broke	May 07 09:30
schestowitz	It's national propaganda	May 07 09:30
DaemonFC	and they just admitted it	May 07 09:30
schestowitz	Needs to be fundedby taxpayers	May 07 09:30
schestowitz	Rupert has $$	May 07 09:30
schestowitz	He won't let it sink	May 07 09:30
DaemonFC	no, Fox news is more or less Republican propaganda	May 07 09:30
schestowitz	And Keith Olbermann is biased vs them	May 07 09:31
DaemonFC	and the Republicans don't have the kind of pull they did :)	May 07 09:31
DaemonFC	Fox News is 97% down on revenue vs first quarter last year	May 07 09:32
DaemonFC	and news Corp over 40% down total	May 07 09:32
DaemonFC	if I heard that right	May 07 09:32
DaemonFC	well, if they did go under it would certainly be no great loss	May 07 09:33
DaemonFC	at least with some news networks, you may get some real news alongside the propaganda	May 07 09:33
DaemonFC	Fox is 99% propaganda	May 07 09:33
schestowitz	brb	May 07 09:34
DaemonFC	errr	May 07 09:36
DaemonFC	total 47%	May 07 09:36
DaemonFC	newspaper down 97%	May 07 09:36
DaemonFC	Fox News is down 99% in profits	May 07 09:36
DaemonFC	he even lost money on "American Idol"	May 07 09:37
DaemonFC	lol	May 07 09:37
DaemonFC	http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090506-720083.html	May 07 09:38
DaemonFC	"The television segment's operating income plummeted by $415 million to $4 million, reflecting declines in ad revenue, the absense of both the Super Bowl and contributions from eight stations sold in July 2008, and higher programming costs because of the year-ago writers strike."	May 07 09:39
DaemonFC	nice	May 07 09:39
DaemonFC	it would be nice to see Fixed Noise get killed off by the recession	May 07 09:39
DaemonFC	then nobody could say no good came from it	May 07 09:40
schestowitz	I'm sure another bad channel will grab the audience lost by Faux	May 07 09:46
schestowitz	Certain people are simply attracted to that	May 07 09:46
schestowitz	It's like saying, it we ban the KKK, racism will stop	May 07 09:46
schestowitz	[rather than go underground or find another umrella]	May 07 09:46
schestowitz	Same with Al Qaeda	May 07 09:47
schestowitz	BN gives me the s*ts	May 07 09:48
schestowitz	Error pages and stuff on occasions	May 07 09:48
schestowitz	twitter couldn't leave a comment	May 07 09:48
schestowitz	I barelyu could either	May 07 09:48
schestowitz	And I think server load causes this	May 07 09:48
MinceR	geekings	May 07 09:52
schestowitz	WTF?	May 07 09:54
schestowitz	http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2009/05/novell-moonlight-20-previews-s.html	May 07 09:54
schestowitz	" John Bailo said: It's bigger than that. The Moonlight port clearly proves that Linux can deliver DRM'd media to users. (Hulu has already proven that with its Flash based delivery system, but this should assure customers). I look forward to the day when Real's Rhapsody client can work on Linux and I can download and move audio files to my Sansa View.	May 07 09:54
schestowitz	"	May 07 09:54
schestowitz	Oh oh	May 07 09:54
schestowitz	Bailo's back?	May 07 09:54
schestowitz	Former MS employee	May 07 09:54
DaemonFC	I'm still waiting for why I should give a flying fuck if I can play DRM crippled files	May 07 09:55
DaemonFC	Are they going to pay ME 99 cents a song to take them?	May 07 09:55
schestowitz	Yeah...	May 07 09:55
schestowitz	Well, the man used to be in c.o.linux.a. in USENET	May 07 09:56
schestowitz	Considered a troll by some	May 07 09:56
schestowitz	It would be bad if all sorts of MSFTers made demands for stuff like Moonlight and DRM	May 07 09:56
DaemonFC	I will never buy any music or movies that I can't watch on my own terms	May 07 09:56
DaemonFC	or convert to my format of choice	May 07 09:56
schestowitz	http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7324	May 07 09:56
schestowitz	You can't BUY	May 07 09:57
schestowitz	That's the thing	May 07 09:57
schestowitz	They RENT	May 07 09:57
schestowitz	So the notions and words must change	May 07 09:57
DaemonFC	well, they can count me out	May 07 09:57
DaemonFC	DRM obviously isn't working	May 07 09:57
DaemonFC	or they wouldn't be removing it	May 07 09:57
schestowitz	"Dear Sir,	May 07 10:08
schestowitz	I was waiting for a paper document, bearing a signature.	May 07 10:08
schestowitz	Maybe you have noticed that all amicus curiae briefs published are signed and thus made authentic.	May 07 10:08
schestowitz	Now, if you send me your statement as signed pdf.file or fax it will be online with the next update. "	May 07 10:08
schestowitz	Meh. I can't be bothered	May 07 10:08
schestowitz	I guess it's good that they verify identity, but it would still be easy to fake had someone tried it	May 07 10:08
schestowitz	Someone might help us OWN the linux action show... "I hadn't realized they had a Wikipedia entry. I'll transcribe the whole video and post it. Nothing like original quotes from the originator :0 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_action_show "	May 07 10:13
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DaemonFC	http://download.cnet.com/8301-2007_4-10234111-12.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody	May 07 10:21
DaemonFC	What to expect in Windows 7 RC	May 07 10:21
DaemonFC	they're really scraping the bottom of the bucket to find things that differentiate it from Vista	May 07 10:22
schestowitz	DaemonFC: it's CNET	May 07 10:23
schestowitz	It's not enws	May 07 10:23
schestowitz	it's zdnet's cousin	May 07 10:23
schestowitz	Owned by CBS now	May 07 10:24
schestowitz	Investments for CNET came from Paul Allen, just to give you an idea..	May 07 10:24
DaemonFC	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/06/p2p_bill_overreach/	May 07 10:24
schestowitz	The UK is basically f*ed as a democracy	May 07 10:25
schestowitz	We have surveillance here like you wouldn't believe	May 07 10:25
schestowitz	Even the US military gets copies of our E-mails here because the govt. gives it to them AFAI	May 07 10:25
schestowitz	*K	May 07 10:25
DaemonFC	might as well	May 07 10:26
DaemonFC	we'll get it anyway, they're jsut saving us the trouble	May 07 10:26
DaemonFC	:D	May 07 10:26
schestowitz	The UK goes back to medieval ages faster than the US in some aspects	May 07 10:26
schestowitz	It's easier because the UK is well wired and small	May 07 10:26
schestowitz	So you can easily put CCTV at every street corner	May 07 10:26
schestowitz	HA! OpenText Buying Vignette and the Impact of Open Source Content Management < http://ostatic.com/blog/opentext-buying-vignette-and-the-impact-of-open-source-content-management >	May 07 10:28
schestowitz	Motorola's new Linux phones are based on Android (they gave up on WinMo): http://ostatic.com/blog/motorolas-android-smartphones-are-for-real-news-and-photos-arriving	May 07 10:28
iwmw	hehe, winmo is dying slowly :)	May 07 10:30
schestowitz	It is	May 07 10:30
schestowitz	Not because I dislike Microsoft	May 07 10:30
schestowitz	because it is.	May 07 10:30
schestowitz	It's too expensive to maintain/develop and revenue from it is too mere. Microsoft loses TONS of money there and Microsoft fans too (market watchers) say it'll die, so...	May 07 10:31
schestowitz	MS bought Danger. Anything came out of that yet?	May 07 10:31
schestowitz	MS hired some BSD devs. I think they are totally lost and don't know what to do now.	May 07 10:32
schestowitz	Earlier today I also read that they'll use PowerSet in the next SE	May 07 10:33
schestowitz	Like Hotmail at the time, it's FOSS	May 07 10:33
schestowitz	But all those buyouts weighing at 100s of millions will get them nowhere. it's DUPLICATION of effort.. trying to replace what they already have.	May 07 10:33
schestowitz	Pentagon Rejects Its Own Pundit Program Whitewash < http://www.prwatch.org/node/8367 >	May 07 10:35
schestowitz	This site continues to be excellent for a dose of reality	May 07 10:36
schestowitz	http://www.prwatch.org/node/8362 "In Scotland, police have been offering environmentalists money in return for information about activist groups."	May 07 10:37
schestowitz	Cyberbullying Law Makes Being Mean Online A Felony < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/05/04/cyberbullying-law-makes-being-mean-online-a-felony >. This is a tool for net censorship	May 07 10:38
schestowitz	Google stung again:  Google Results Polluted By Cybercrooks < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/04/17/google-results-polluted-by-cybercrooks >	May 07 10:39
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schestowitz	Why did this get buried after it was promoted? http://digg.com/microsoft/The_fall_of_Microsoft?t=25158343#c25158343	May 07 10:42
schestowitz	Intel discontinuing Core i7 940  < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1136852/intel-discontinuing-core-i7-940 >. EU Commission should discontinue Intel	May 07 10:43
schestowitz	Another Softie waves goodbye: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=2704	May 07 10:45
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oiaohm	Openoffice 3.1.0 is offically released.	May 07 10:51
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DaemonFC	hmmm	May 07 10:57
DaemonFC	looks like some guy posted a crack that let Windows Dreamscene work on cheaper versions of Vista	May 07 10:58
DaemonFC	and got a harassment letter from Microsof	May 07 10:58
DaemonFC	*Microsoft	May 07 10:58
DaemonFC	but that was likely	May 07 10:58
schestowitz	The Curious Case of Android v. Android http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/The-Curious-Case-of-Android-v-Android-66993.html	May 07 11:02
schestowitz	harassment letter?	May 07 11:03
schestowitz	proof?	May 07 11:03
DaemonFC	http://www.mydigitallife.info/2007/05/10/hack-to-run-dreamscene-in-vista-home-premium-basic-starter-business-and-enterprise/comment-page-2/#comment-231042	May 07 11:03
schestowitz	http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/google-and-giant-robotic-flyswatter (Google and the Giant Robotic Flyswatter	May 07 11:06
schestowitz	It's sick. People own words from the DICTIONARY	May 07 11:06
schestowitz	I guess I could call my product "Mug" and then be sued for $1000	May 07 11:06
DaemonFC	schestowitz: You ever think about maybe running a toxic.html?	May 07 11:06
DaemonFC	there was a program that buried hidden links in your site to confuse spambots at one point	May 07 11:07
DaemonFC	I wonder is something could be cooked up to lead Microsoft on a wile goose chase	May 07 11:07
DaemonFC	*wild	May 07 11:07
schestowitz	Hehe.	May 07 11:08
schestowitz	Good fit for a post I have	May 07 11:08
DaemonFC	it would be mildly hilarious to have them paying people to chase their own tail	May 07 11:08
schestowitz	I mean, the takedown	May 07 11:08
DaemonFC	I can't believe they care that much about Dreamscene	May 07 11:08
DaemonFC	it's not even in Windows 7	May 07 11:09
DaemonFC	and they said it was cause of its unpopularity	May 07 11:09
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schestowitz	::>	May 07 11:11
schestowitz	DaemonFC: in the past people didn't mind infringement	May 07 11:11
schestowitz	Neither copying of WIndows nor patents	May 07 11:12
schestowitz	Now it's using TomTom	May 07 11:12
schestowitz	It's suing shops that sell WIndows	May 07 11:12
schestowitz	for 'counterfeiting'	May 07 11:12
schestowitz	It chases bloggers around with DMCA takedowns	May 07 11:12
schestowitz	It sues IBM... OH WAIT!! Microsoft didn't actually do that. t just paid SCO for this	May 07 11:12
DaemonFC	no	May 07 11:13
ushimitsudoki1	MS suing TomTom is one of the best things to happen for FLOSS, I think. It removes the whole "MS never used patents aggressively" line that MS apologists so loved to throw around	May 07 11:13
DaemonFC	it just bought the most expensive SCO UNIX license EVER	May 07 11:13
DaemonFC	;)	May 07 11:13
DaemonFC	Adam Williamson took that line with me	May 07 11:13
DaemonFC	on his blog	May 07 11:13
schestowitz	ushimitsudoki1: it wasn't just TomTOM	May 07 11:14
schestowitz	That was the first patent suit against OFSS	May 07 11:14
schestowitz	And also against software	May 07 11:14
DaemonFC	so I wonder why Fedora still has FAT support	May 07 11:14
schestowitz	It sued over hardware (Primax)	May 07 11:14
schestowitz	But......	May 07 11:14
schestowitz	Bear in mind that extortion and lawsuits are the same	May 07 11:14
schestowitz	Microsoft sued TomTom after failed extortion	May 07 11:14
schestowitz	So it could potentially sue all those that it threatens behind the scene	May 07 11:15
schestowitz	*nes	May 07 11:15
ushimitsudoki1	Fedora has it because (perhaps) they don't feel the patents are valid and aren't planning on caving in - whereas TomTom didn't think it was worth it to take a stand	May 07 11:15
ushimitsudoki1	It was a settlement, not a court decision	May 07 11:15
schestowitz	There's a workaround	May 07 11:15
schestowitz	Tridge thread	May 07 11:15
schestowitz	They also work on killing or trashing the patents at a perceptual level	May 07 11:15
schestowitz	So that those going to corut will have a day in the field	May 07 11:16
schestowitz	This caused a lot of damage to MS	May 07 11:16
schestowitz	Lots of lost trust in FOSS	May 07 11:16
schestowitz	Many people raise the TomTom example now	May 07 11:16
schestowitz	So it wasn't worth the half a million (or less) they got paid	May 07 11:16
schestowitz	The FUD they earned comes with resentment too	May 07 11:17
ushimitsudoki1	I sure would love to hear some mono-pusher comments on the TomTom case	May 07 11:18
DaemonFC	I think it's gonna be funny when people try to "upgrade" from XP to 7	May 07 11:20
DaemonFC	and find out that's a no no	May 07 11:20
DaemonFC	schestowitz: I found a Microsoft article earlier talking about Kernel Patch Protection	May 07 11:22
DaemonFC	basically they could have implemented it on x86, but they basically admitted that they didn't because it breaks a lot of shit	May 07 11:22
DaemonFC	so it goes on x64 first and people who want to support x64 will have to live with it from day 1 :P	May 07 11:22
DaemonFC	and apparently it was not my imagination, Vista x64 scored about 10% higher on GeekBench than Vista x86 :|	May 07 11:24
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schestowitz	MS takedowner: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Emma+Rutherford&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8	May 07 11:26
schestowitz	DaemonFC: vista can't run 64 bit	May 07 11:27
schestowitz	ISVs	May 07 11:27
schestowitz	No-go area	May 07 11:27
DaemonFC	?	May 07 11:27
schestowitz	Maybe servers being a possibility	May 07 11:27
schestowitz	Not many apps for 64-bit	May 07 11:27
schestowitz	No source code either	May 07 11:27
DaemonFC	I have Vista X86-64	May 07 11:27
schestowitz	Does Adobe finally support 64-bit Winder	May 07 11:28
schestowitz	It supported Linux 64-bit before Winder	May 07 11:28
DaemonFC	they don't really have to	May 07 11:28
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DaemonFC	wow64 can run 32-bit applications side by side	May 07 11:29
DaemonFC	there's not really much point in having a 64-bit web browser	May 07 11:29
DaemonFC	so flash runs all the same	May 07 11:29
DaemonFC	there are 32-bit and 64-bit versions of both IE and Windows Media Player though	May 07 11:29
DaemonFC	schestowitz: GCC or MSVC can both compile for Win64	May 07 11:30
DaemonFC	it's not difficult	May 07 11:30
DaemonFC	it's just that most outfits know that since Windows can run either/or, then they may as well just put out the Win32 version	May 07 11:31
DaemonFC	most of the benefits of X86-64 have very little to do with performance	May 07 11:32
DaemonFC	sometimes the 2 GB per process limit of x86 even helps	May 07 11:32
DaemonFC	if a process goes out of control and starts leaking memory for example	May 07 11:32
DaemonFC	for anything running in .Net it's whatever architecture Windows is	May 07 11:33
DaemonFC	and for JAVA programs, it's whatever version of the JVM you have	May 07 11:34
DaemonFC	schestowitz: X86-64 really stops being interesting past the point of "You can use more RAM"	May 07 11:35
schestowitz	Apple and Microsoft Attack Their Developers and Users (Again) < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/07/apple-and-microsoft-attack/ >	May 07 11:35
DaemonFC	DEODORANT DEODORANT DEODORANT DEODORANT!!!!!!!!	May 07 11:36
DaemonFC	:P	May 07 11:36
DaemonFC	schestowitz: Apple won't let you run Flash on the iphone	May 07 11:37
DaemonFC	so it's basically useless	May 07 11:37
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schestowitz	DEODORANT won't run on iphone :-p	May 07 11:38
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DaemonFC	schestowitz: Microsoft and Apple are dinosaurs that still think push content works	May 07 11:40
DaemonFC	even though every product using it in the last 10 years has bombed	May 07 11:40
DaemonFC	Kevin Carmony was even asking Apple to create a system where if you paid them more, they'd review your app faster and give it a better listing	May 07 11:41
DaemonFC	he was wanting to use that to push his Dating DNA app	May 07 11:41
DaemonFC	schestowitz: I actually found something interesting in Microsoft's "sponsored" Vista Sidebar gadgets	May 07 11:43
DaemonFC	XM Radio has a gadget that lets you sign up for a 2 week trial	May 07 11:43
DaemonFC	but when that runs out you just have to give them another disposable email	May 07 11:43
DaemonFC	and sign up for another 2 free weeks	May 07 11:43
DaemonFC	and so on	May 07 11:43
DaemonFC	Speaking of default browser, search, etc.	May 07 11:44
DaemonFC	They've had to heavily modify IE and Windows over the years because of antitrust suits	May 07 11:44
DaemonFC	what makes Windows Mobile special?	May 07 11:44
iwmw	m$ as prefix	May 07 11:45
DaemonFC	They seem to change just enough to comply with the judgment or the settlement	May 07 11:45
DaemonFC	cause there's still plenty of shit that you can click on that will only open in IE	May 07 11:46
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DaemonFC	IE has never been my favorite anything	May 07 11:47
DaemonFC	when they welded it onto Windows 98 I was horrified	May 07 11:47
anivar	while looking for dependency maps I came across this patent filed by sun in 1997.  Don't you think this patent overlaps or talks essentialy what debian dependencies already do. Can anyone check this and alert if this is serious? http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20080201705	May 07 11:49
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DaemonFC	doubt it matters	May 07 12:04
DaemonFC	Debian is older than the patent	May 07 12:04
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oiaohm	Debian might be prior art anivar problem is BSD based OS's were doing it first even older again.	May 07 12:18
schestowitz	MonoDevelop Moves to Windows, Gnote Comes to GNU/Linux (as Default) < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/07/gnote-comes-to-gnu-as-default/ >	May 07 12:21
schestowitz	Sunracle isn't going to attack Debian users	May 07 12:22
schestowitz	That would be insane	May 07 12:22
schestowitz	http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-mar-jun.html#07%20May%202009%20%28Nigel%20Inkster%29 "igel Inkster, who was MI6 deputy director when MI6 gave the bogus intelligence report that was used to justify conquering Iraq, says that there  were doubts about it at the time, and that the UK was "dragged into war". It was dragged by Tony B'liar, who would do anything at all for Bush, even kill. "	May 07 12:24
oiaohm	Lol mono guys are going nuts.	May 07 12:24
oiaohm	Visual studio on windows basic form is free.	May 07 12:24
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oiaohm	http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/  And you missed schestowitz	May 07 12:25
oiaohm	monodevelop is mostly an attack on sharpdevelop were a large section of monodevelop source came from.	May 07 12:25
schestowitz	Former MI6 chief says Britain was 'dragged' into Iraq war  < http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/5267555/Former-MI6-chief-says-Britain-was-dragged-into-Iraq-war.html >	May 07 12:26
DaemonFC	Why the hell would you want to use Mono on Windows?	May 07 12:28
schestowitz	NOVL just needs to disseminate its spermcode/DNA inside GNU/Linux and then come with MS to claim ownership of it	May 07 12:29
schestowitz	DaemonFC: cross platform	May 07 12:29
DaemonFC	http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-05-07-voa6.cfm	May 07 12:31
DaemonFC	Looks like Pakistan is finally having to deal with the Taliban	May 07 12:31
DaemonFC	Maybe they'll be a little bit more agreeable now that they're in danger of being overthrown	May 07 12:32
DaemonFC	:)	May 07 12:32
schestowitz	Could this be cronies	May 07 12:33
DaemonFC	?	May 07 12:33
schestowitz	Maybe a regime working for the US	May 07 12:33
schestowitz	It would look better coming from locals	May 07 12:33
DaemonFC	nah, the Taliban are some really bad guys	May 07 12:34
DaemonFC	they want to kill or convert anyone that's even slightly less radical	May 07 12:34
schestowitz	The US almost supported them	May 07 12:34
schestowitz	Depends who they need as cannon fodder	May 07 12:34
DaemonFC	it's not a win for anyone but them if they get in power there	May 07 12:34
schestowitz	DaemonFC: yes, but the US had not much problem as long as they launched rocket at Russian tanks	May 07 12:35
DaemonFC	I don't think Pakistan wanted to have an all out fight with the Taliban	May 07 12:35
DaemonFC	militaries like big scary enemies that they never have to fight	May 07 12:35
DaemonFC	but which justify bottomless budgets	May 07 12:35
schestowitz	Some of them still use weapons that the US gave them to actually shoot and kill Americans	May 07 12:36
DaemonFC	schestowitz: The Soviets would have captured that area and pressed on	May 07 12:36
schestowitz	To this date, civilian aeroplane face danger from Stinger missiles made in Columbine or wherever.	May 07 12:36
DaemonFC	controlled most of the oil	May 07 12:36
DaemonFC	which would have prevented their economy from collapsing	May 07 12:37
DaemonFC	and we would still be dealing with a bigger, badder version of them today	May 07 12:37
DaemonFC	and I doubt their ambitions would have stopped there	May 07 12:37
schestowitz	But that's not the point	May 07 12:37
DaemonFC	the problem is that they're a bunch of Macgyvers	May 07 12:38
DaemonFC	they can turn any bit of crap that they got from anywhere into a bomb	May 07 12:38
DaemonFC	if Pakistan is killing them I say "Yay Pakistan!" and urge them to not accept any "peace talks"	May 07 12:39
DaemonFC	because that's a code word for "time to reload"	May 07 12:39
DaemonFC	just like the Palestinians	May 07 12:39
DaemonFC	they can't be bargained with, if they say they want to talk about peace, it's merely a stall tactic	May 07 12:40
schestowitz	What is this site? http://meneame.net/	May 07 12:40
schestowitz	Seems big, we made FP there just now	May 07 12:40
DaemonFC	http://72.14.205.132/translate_c?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://meneame.net/&prev=hp&usg=ALkJrhgMOQrHLfsBZ2r5HCBr5WF-Ry5lUg	May 07 12:41
DaemonFC	try that	May 07 12:41
schestowitz	I miss Gogolebar	May 07 12:42
schestowitz	It made translation fast	May 07 12:42
schestowitz	The Google Toolbar annoys me	May 07 12:42
schestowitz	"Norway denounces corruption in Spain"	May 07 12:42
schestowitz	Probably not the Microsoft case	May 07 12:42
schestowitz	Anyway, I'vce gotta go now	May 07 12:42
schestowitz	bbl	May 07 12:42
DaemonFC	I'm hoping that Spain does prosecute the Bush Administration	May 07 12:44
DaemonFC	and while they're at it, they can uncover the network of willing accomplices in the UK	May 07 12:44
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz		May 07 12:44
DaemonFC	this could become the next Nuremberg trial if they really wanted to push it that far	May 07 12:45
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DaemonFC	http://www.pcworld.com/article/164487/duke_nukem_fornever_3d_realms_shutting_down.html/	May 07 12:47
DaemonFC	Duke Nukem For-Never? 3D Realms Shutting Down	May 07 12:47
*DaemonFC groans		May 07 12:47
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trmanco	hello everyone	May 07 13:16
DaemonFC	so Logitech releases an update that works on Windows 7	May 07 13:29
DaemonFC	but it's only a web update release	May 07 13:29
DaemonFC	and requires the Vista software you can't install	May 07 13:29
DaemonFC	can someone tell me how they come up with this shit?	May 07 13:29
iwmw	lol	May 07 13:34
trmanco	anybody here use geany?	May 07 13:38
oiaohm	Maybe they don't like Windows 7 DaemonFC	May 07 13:39
DaemonFC	Sounds reasonable til you figure out that 11.9 is only downloadable once you have installed 11.8 and check for updates, but as I pointed out in an earlier post, 11.8 kills Windows 7 dead about halfway through installation.	May 07 13:40
DaemonFC	So I updated a Vista system and kidnapped the 11.9 installer from a temp folder:	May 07 13:40
DaemonFC	Merry Christmas	May 07 13:40
DaemonFC	-Me	May 07 13:40
DaemonFC	hehe	May 07 13:40
oiaohm	That sounds like logitech wants windows 7 dead.	May 07 13:41
iwmw	manufacturers don't like systems that are always changing the ddk for no reason, obviously	May 07 13:45
iwmw	as well as userspace api	May 07 13:45
iwmw	so they could just vote by producing crappy drivers and by this system goes bb	May 07 13:46
iwmw	they could as well bury vista already, did they really need vista?	May 07 13:48
DaemonFC	oh sweet!	May 07 13:48
DaemonFC	VLC can record to Theora+Vorbis from my cam	May 07 13:48
DaemonFC	I don't need Logitech's crapware	May 07 13:49
iwmw	yeah, vlc likes to access cameras	May 07 13:49
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iwmw	it even recorded from some crappy fake chinese copy of nokia cell of guy that came to me to test it	May 07 13:51
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DaemonFC	hmmm	May 07 13:58
DaemonFC	always happy when I can kill off a piece of crapware	May 07 13:59
DaemonFC	:)	May 07 13:59
iwmw	yeah, i even replaced almost all payware mostly bloatware apps with free ones	May 07 14:00
DaemonFC	Logitech's software is worthless	May 07 14:00
DaemonFC	it will only encode to WMV	May 07 14:00
DaemonFC	that's it	May 07 14:00
iwmw	wmv... not bad... but w in the name of that format makes me avoid it	May 07 14:01
iwmw	they better produced x264	May 07 14:02
iwmw	better quality and less shit	May 07 14:02
DaemonFC	VLC lets you do WMV+WMA, x.264+AAC, Theora+Vorbis, Theora+Flac	May 07 14:03
DaemonFC	several others	May 07 14:03
DaemonFC	but you have choices	May 07 14:03
DaemonFC	basically any combination of audio and video that VLC supports is possible	May 07 14:03
oiaohm	I though I said VLC when you where having trouble with logitech before DaemonFC?	May 07 14:04
DaemonFC	VLC is a swiss army knife, Windows Media Player is old swiss cheese, stinky and full of holes	May 07 14:04
DaemonFC	B-)	May 07 14:04
DaemonFC	oiahm: VLC has a lot of functionality	May 07 14:05
oiaohm	I know.	May 07 14:05
DaemonFC	shame that it's not all readily obvious	May 07 14:05
oiaohm	Rerecording dvd's into a smaller format is another one I use.	May 07 14:05
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DaemonFC	I also noticed that it can rip CDs to FLAC :)	May 07 14:07
DaemonFC	thereby replacing my Exact Audio Copy	May 07 14:08
DaemonFC	:P	May 07 14:08
oiaohm	VLC is not a player.	May 07 14:08
oiaohm	Its a player/universal ripping tool.	May 07 14:08
trmanco	couldn't help it -> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/browse_frm/thread/a58c27dc88751c26#	May 07 14:08
oiaohm	Its just knowing how to make it play ball.	May 07 14:08
trmanco	I had to say something	May 07 14:08
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oiaohm	tomboy eats memory badly.	May 07 14:10
DaemonFC	it also churns the hard disk	May 07 14:11
oiaohm	Its hard for mono developers to except that in under a month a clone of a .net program in C++ can basically beat them dead.	May 07 14:12
oiaohm	Its also excepting that it took less than 1 month to port most of it.	May 07 14:13
trmanco	there is still some addons missing and some don't even work yet	May 07 14:14
trmanco	the timestamp addin doesn't work	May 07 14:14
trmanco	and you can't disable any addons yet...	May 07 14:15
iwmw	in either case... once it's stable people can develop their own addons	May 07 14:15
oiaohm	Thinking only 1 month since the start of the gnote project has started how far comlete is it trmanco	May 07 14:15
trmanco	just have these two thing bugging me, but overall, it's a nice piece of software	May 07 14:15
oiaohm	Its doing extreamly well.	May 07 14:15
trmanco	yeah, it sure is	May 07 14:15
DaemonFC	http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/5841/vlcn.png	May 07 14:15
trmanco	things*	May 07 14:15
oiaohm	6 months time it will be basically why tomboy.	May 07 14:16
oiaohm	Not something the mono camp was expecting.	May 07 14:16
iwmw	so you like doors	May 07 14:17
trmanco	I hope it gets better than tomboy (new functionality for example)	May 07 14:17
oiaohm	http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/plugins  Nice gcc going moduler.	May 07 14:17
DaemonFC	hehe	May 07 14:18
DaemonFC	yeah	May 07 14:18
DaemonFC	I am going to kill Kevin Carmony for what he did though :P	May 07 14:18
DaemonFC	http://kevincarmony.com/linspire_videos/RunLinspire.swf	May 07 14:18
oiaohm	That is the other thing gnote can port in tomboy but tomboy cannot port in gnote.	May 07 14:19
oiaohm	Licence issue.	May 07 14:19
iwmw	what's tomboy license?	May 07 14:19
oiaohm	gplv2 tomboy  gplv3 gnote	May 07 14:19
iwmw	lol	May 07 14:19
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iwmw	why isn't tomboy gplv3?	May 07 14:20
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oiaohm	There are still a lot of things that are not iwmw	May 07 14:20
iwmw	yeah, but why they started it with gplv2 not 3?	May 07 14:21
trmanco	it's not only gplv2	May 07 14:22
iwmw	so gplv3 denies other licenses under which tomboy is licensed?	May 07 14:23
oiaohm	gplv3 can have gplv2 licence code inside.	May 07 14:25
oiaohm	Mirror don't work.	May 07 14:26
iwmw	i just read that tomboy is lgpl	May 07 14:26
oiaohm	Its the version.	May 07 14:26
trmanco	I was referring to this post a while back, copied the wrong link...-> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/d5cf14290de2a1e3	May 07 14:29
iwmw	you posted link to post of some ignorant user	May 07 14:30
iwmw	before	May 07 14:30
trmanco	http://kde.org/announcements/announce-4.2.3.php	May 07 14:32
trmanco	he is an idiot	May 07 14:32
trmanco	I see he already replied back, I'll give him another reply and then back he goes to my killfile again, it's not worth it, reading post from a peanut sized brain troll	May 07 14:33
trmanco	posts*	May 07 14:33
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Omar87	Guys, what do you think of the upcoming Walfram Alpha search engine?	May 07 14:41
Omar87	Will it really be so revolutionary that it might even wipe Google out?	May 07 14:42
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iwmw	not too much was said about that so you can't make prognosis	May 07 14:45
iwmw	in either case.... it's launching this month so you will try and see	May 07 14:46
iwmw	from what i read about wolframalpha it would rather be a good complement to usual search engines not a replacer of popular ones	May 07 14:56
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DaemonFC	Can anyone explain why Vista feels faster and more stable than KDE?	May 07 15:00
DaemonFC	I'm still waiting on that one	May 07 15:00
trmanco	how can it feal faster if it's core components suck?	May 07 15:00
DaemonFC	I'm not joking	May 07 15:00
DaemonFC	Vista's GUI is much more responsive than KDE	May 07 15:01
trmanco	I haven't tried kde 4 yet	May 07 15:01
DaemonFC	they botched KDE 4.x big time	May 07 15:01
trmanco	but I have tried vista a couple of times	May 07 15:01
trmanco	just wait until kde 4.5 comes out :-P	May 07 15:01
DaemonFC	last version I tried was 4.2.2	May 07 15:01
DaemonFC	I wasn't thrilled	May 07 15:02
DaemonFC	GNOME still runs better	May 07 15:02
trmanco	what about kde 3.5	May 07 15:02
trmanco	?	May 07 15:02
DaemonFC	KDE 3.5.10 is alright	May 07 15:02
DaemonFC	if you strap Compiz Fusion onto it	May 07 15:03
MinceR	4.2.2 should still be called some sort of 4.0 beta or prebeta	May 07 15:03
DaemonFC	that's what a few distros are still doing	May 07 15:03
trmanco	yeah	May 07 15:03
MinceR	kicker still works badly with compiz, doesn't it?	May 07 15:03
DaemonFC	well, the korrekt thing to do in KDE is Kwin	May 07 15:03
DaemonFC	of kourse	May 07 15:03
MinceR	kwin's compositing is buggy	May 07 15:04
MinceR	it leaves droppings	May 07 15:04
MinceR	kde3 kwin, that is	May 07 15:04
MinceR	or that separate program that does it there	May 07 15:04
DaemonFC	yeah, I'm beginning to think that sorting KDE 4 out will take a long long time	May 07 15:04
DaemonFC	at least another year	May 07 15:04
MinceR	once i did a calculation based on 3.0->3.5 but i forgot the result	May 07 15:05
twitter	I'm aware of HDDVD ripping tools.  Like DeCSS before them, they prove that GNU/Linux can be used to deliver restricted media they way media should be delivered - without restrictions.  ha ha.	May 07 15:05
DaemonFC	from KDE 4.0 to 4.2.0, they had over 67,000 commits	May 07 15:05
DaemonFC	and the thing still doesn't work right	May 07 15:05
twitter	Still, DRM'd media should never be protected by copyright because it can never enter the public domain.	May 07 15:05
DaemonFC	major parts of GNOME can change and the user won't even notice, because they wait til the new system is in place to deprecate the old one	May 07 15:06
twitter	Like RMS says, you can't depend on being able to break copy protection, it should just be against the law to restrict media that way.	May 07 15:06
DaemonFC	so it's not like they're ripping the rug out from under you	May 07 15:06
DaemonFC	copy protection will always be breakable	May 07 15:07
DaemonFC	especially when they have to leave implementation gaps for their "partners"	May 07 15:07
twitter	yes, but they will always be a pain.	May 07 15:07
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twitter	and the pursuit always violates your rights and encourages stupid laws	May 07 15:08
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twitter	With broadcasters like Fox dying, these idiot laws will start to fade.	May 07 15:08
twitter	Without money, they can't fund corruption.	May 07 15:08
twitter	their position still gives them power, but advertisers have realized how little power they have left.	May 07 15:09
SubsonicB	http://www.boingboing.net/2009/05/06/eff-sues-obama-admin.html	May 07 15:09
twitter	broadcast is a form of censorship that has been routed around.	May 07 15:09
SubsonicB	publicly available information shows that the treaty could establish far-reaching customs regulations over Internet traffic in the guise of anti-counterfeiting measures. Additionally, multi-national IP industry companies have publicly requested that ISPs be required to engage in filtering of their customers’ Internet communications for potentially copyright-infringing material, force...	May 07 15:09
SubsonicB	...mandatory disclosure of personal information about alleged copyright infringers, and adopt “Three Strikes” policies requiring ISPs to automatically terminate customers’ Internet access upon a repeat allegation of copyright infringement.	May 07 15:09
DaemonFC	well, the advertising is worthless when people are unemployed or underemployed and jsut looking to pay bills and eat	May 07 15:09
twitter	cool.  EFF goes after ACTA.	May 07 15:10
DaemonFC	they asked me what I was going to spend my stimulus check on this year and I wrote "RENT"	May 07 15:10
DaemonFC	:P	May 07 15:10
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twitter	no, advertising works as long as people eat	May 07 15:10
DaemonFC	how is that?	May 07 15:10
SubsonicB	And look at just what happened at the European Parliament	May 07 15:11
twitter	it can guide where and what they eat, that's valuable	May 07 15:11
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DaemonFC	I go to ALDI, nothing in there gets advertised	May 07 15:11
DaemonFC	except that it's cheap	May 07 15:11
twitter	yeah, the days you could synchronize a whole country with broadcast are over.	May 07 15:12
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DaemonFC	Walmart is in trouble now because they've outsourced so many manufacturing jobs	May 07 15:12
twitter	really?	May 07 15:12
DaemonFC	now they're looking to flee the US to go rough up other countries for money	May 07 15:12
DaemonFC	yeah, they're opening up more stores in foreign countries than they are here	May 07 15:13
DaemonFC	you never saw them prioritize that even ten years ago	May 07 15:13
DaemonFC	they know how much they've soured this place with their smash and grab operation	May 07 15:14
twitter	their business model squeezes contractors, such as my next door neighbor.  he moved to overseas manufacturing and they squeeze him harder.	May 07 15:14
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twitter	either way, they make money.	May 07 15:14
DaemonFC	no, what they'll do now is ditch him	May 07 15:14
*mib_grjaiy is now known as Ap0g33		May 07 15:14
DaemonFC	and buy straight from his supplier	May 07 15:14
twitter	I don't think so	May 07 15:14
DaemonFC	they used him to put himself out of business	May 07 15:14
twitter	too much work	May 07 15:14
DaemonFC	no, I've seen them do it	May 07 15:14
twitter	and you've seen their product line go to pure shit you would never buy, haven't you?	May 07 15:15
DaemonFC	they convinced him he'd make all this money if he just fired all of his employees and ordered from China	May 07 15:15
twitter	nah, he's always been a middle man.	May 07 15:15
DaemonFC	now they have him shut down his capacity, do the legwork of gearing up the suppliers to make shit to his specs	May 07 15:15
DaemonFC	then they cut him out, rebrand it all	May 07 15:15
DaemonFC	and sell his stuff without him selling it to them	May 07 15:15
twitter	he knows people who had actual employees but I don't think he ever did	May 07 15:16
trmanco	wow	May 07 15:16
DaemonFC	they tricked the CEO of the company I used to work for like that	May 07 15:16
trmanco	transmission is getting powerful	May 07 15:16
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DaemonFC	now even he's out of a job	May 07 15:16
DaemonFC	yeah he was making great money between the day he fired everyone and about a year later	May 07 15:17
DaemonFC	:)	May 07 15:17
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_Hicham_	Hi All!	May 07 15:30
trmanco	10 reasons why Linux will oust Windows: http://www.zdnetasia.com/insight/software/0,39044822,62052873,00.htm	May 07 15:31
trmanco	hi _Hicham_	May 07 15:31
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Omar87	Guys, what do you think of the new Walfram Alpha thing? Some people say that it might be a replacement for Google...	May 07 15:37
MinceR	i don't know it. url?	May 07 15:55
_Hicham_	مرحبا بالسيد عمر	May 07 15:57
MinceR	nice	May 07 16:00
MinceR	opera doesn't recognize that as a url, though :>	May 07 16:00
_Hicham_	where is the URL MinceR?	May 07 16:03
MinceR	oh, you're _Hicham_, not Omar87	May 07 16:03
trmanco	lol	May 07 16:04
*MinceR forgot to read the nicks again		May 07 16:04
MinceR	maybe i should get a nick-coloring script, however ugly it looks.	May 07 16:04
trmanco	my nick are colored	May 07 16:04
_Hicham_	what client do u use MinceR?	May 07 16:04
trmanco	nicks*	May 07 16:04
MinceR	irssi	May 07 16:04
trmanco	probobly irssi	May 07 16:04
trmanco	yeah	May 07 16:04
trmanco	I thought so	May 07 16:04
_Hicham_	why not just plain Pidgin?	May 07 16:06
_Hicham_	Pidgin just rocks	May 07 16:06
MinceR	pidgin just fails	May 07 16:08
MinceR	after having pidgin crash twice because i received a jabber message, i replaced it with gajim	May 07 16:09
MinceR	but for personal use i stick with irssi+bitlbee	May 07 16:09
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trmanco	pidgin rarely crashes	May 07 16:22
trmanco	on my machine	May 07 16:22
trmanco	text based applications tend to be a lot more stable than gui based apps, for obvious	May 07 16:23
MinceR	i've heard of the same kind of pidgin crashes around here	May 07 16:27
trmanco	it does crash, but no really often	May 07 16:29
trmanco	I do have 2 jabber accounts and it works fine, for now	May 07 16:30
trmanco	latest version though	May 07 16:30
_Hicham_	MinceR : don't be negative, if it crashes, try to find out why	May 07 16:33
_Hicham_	contribute	May 07 16:33
_Hicham_	at least with bug reporting	May 07 16:33
_Hicham_	that is open source	May 07 16:33
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MinceR	i know why: because it's pidgin	May 07 16:40
MinceR	fixed by switching to gajim. :>	May 07 16:40
trmanco	it looks pretty much the same	May 07 16:41
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schestowitz	Classic UK... London Olympics Says No To Free Software < http://www.fsdaily.com/Opposition/London_Olympics_Says_No_To_Free_Software >	May 07 16:49
schestowitz	"Too much risk..." to Microsoft's revene	May 07 16:49
schestowitz	Sounds like the usual collusion	May 07 16:49
schestowitz	Just like in China	May 07 16:49
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Omar87	MinceR: www.walframalpha.com, however, it's not launched yet. It will be launched anytime this month though.	May 07 17:06
Omar87	MinceR: Sorry, I meant http://www.wolframalpha.com/	May 07 17:07
schestowitz	Sounds like another Cuil or Wikia	May 07 17:09
schestowitz	Yawn-worthy	May 07 17:09
schestowitz	They are already well placed in Google for maths stuff	May 07 17:09
schestowitz	They are Wikipedia for maths to some people	May 07 17:09
schestowitz	brb	May 07 17:09
schestowitz	Updated: Microsoft Lays Off 28 Percent Of In-Game Advertising Unit Staff < http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-report-microsoft-guts-in-game-advertising-unit-in-layoffs/ ? So it's not 75% after all.	May 07 17:11
schestowitz	OpenOffice.org 3.1.0 is available < http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/openoffice_org_3_1_0 >	May 07 17:12
schestowitz	Get OpenOffice.org 3.1.0 now if you want the nice new features: http://download.openoffice.org/	May 07 17:12
trmanco	I'll write about it later	May 07 17:12
schestowitz	I'm gonna change the format of IRC logs	May 07 17:13
schestowitz	Starting tomorrow	May 07 17:13
trmanco	what will it look like	May 07 17:14
schestowitz	Notice how the Microsoft-inclined pres, which is rubbish, poses the Microsoft vs ODF situation as an IBM thing. The lies...	May 07 17:15
Omar87	Alright, now that's wierd..	May 07 17:15
schestowitz	IBM is mostly the messenger here	May 07 17:16
schestowitz	Omar87: what's yp	May 07 17:16
Omar87	I tried to check for updates in OO.o, but it failed.	May 07 17:16
schestowitz	Did you see the CNET link I gave you days ago?	May 07 17:16
Omar87	schestowitz: What was it about?	May 07 17:16
schestowitz	Omar87: probably not there, yet	May 07 17:16
schestowitz	Omar87: let me find it	May 07 17:16
schestowitz	http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10232069-38.html	May 07 17:16
schestowitz	Sounds like he drank from Microsoft's Kool-Aid far too much. See what he says about OSS	May 07 17:17
Omar87	schestowitz: Yeah, but it didn't even try, it failed immediately.	May 07 17:17
schestowitz	Oh.. that free software thing... it's so EXPENSIVE!! *rolls eyes*	May 07 17:17
schestowitz	MSDN Magazine gets slashed... http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/05/07/microsoft_products_scaled_back/	May 07 17:19
schestowitz	Microsoft hasn't enough money to run its units	May 07 17:19
schestowitz	3D Realms is kaput < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/technology/8037688.stm >, but hopefully they'll give the engine and models to the community; it's dead either way.	May 07 17:21
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schestowitz	Victoria's article/headline about ODF was changed a little to show that ODF!=IBM: Microsoft under fire for ODF glitch in Excel  < http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39649168,00.htm >	May 07 17:22
trmanco	Engage, embrace, extinguish: http://harishpillay.livejournal.com/157565.html	May 07 17:22
trmanco	Yahoo has been invaded by Microsoft from the very inside ->http://lonelyspooky.com/2009/05/06/ate-tu-yahoo/	May 07 17:23
schestowitz	In June I'm gonna make super-progress on Wiki+Comes exhibits. I have thousands of crimes I want to expose.	May 07 17:23
schestowitz	Yes, Yahoo is poisoned	May 07 17:24
schestowitz	"Today we have OpenOffice.org 3.1 gets released. In the meantime, the proprietary product from Redmond claims to be able to wirte ODF format, but fails. Pity. Money corrupts, but MS Tax Dollars corrupts absolutely." http://harishpillay.livejournal.com/157565.html	May 07 17:24
schestowitz	trmanco: he just retwitted my [ANN] re OOo	May 07 17:26
trmanco	ANN?	May 07 17:26
schestowitz	Duke Nukem Forever developer defunct, says staffer < http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/05/07/duke_down_as_3d_realms_closes/ >	May 07 17:26
schestowitz	USENET: ANNouncement	May 07 17:26
schestowitz	Yahoo used to recommend Firefox 3.09	May 07 17:27
schestowitz	That is, when Jerry was in charge	May 07 17:27
schestowitz	Now it's just ctotally corrupted	May 07 17:28
trmanco	ah	May 07 17:28
schestowitz	Bartz is a partner of Ballmer	May 07 17:28
schestowitz	Since years ago	May 07 17:28
schestowitz	Icahn must be happy about her appointment	May 07 17:28
trmanco	yeah, I remember yahoo recommending Firefox with Yahoo toolbar	May 07 17:28
schestowitz	Icahn should be sent to prison along with Wall Street bankers and Nathan Mhyrvold	May 07 17:28
schestowitz	The software patents cartel, including hired Microsoft shills like ACT, get their way in the UK. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/07/ipo_approve_software_patent/	May 07 17:30
schestowitz	Microsoft now attempt to fragment ODF < http://homembit.com/2009/05/microsoft-now-attempt-to-fragment-odf.html > Remember Java?	May 07 17:33
schestowitz	Ben Slivka, Microsoft: "great Win 32 implementations written/deployed. [...] Do encourage fragmentation of the Java classlib space."" Think ODF.	May 07 17:33
schestowitz	Gavin Clarke is boosting Silver Lie again	May 07 17:35
schestowitz	He pretends Silver Lie if the leader or somwthint	May 07 17:36
schestowitz	Known MS strategy	May 07 17:36
schestowitz	Treat the Web as through Adobe doesn't exist in RIA	May 07 17:36
schestowitz	Disgusting and dishonest	May 07 17:36
trmanco	who wrote this -> http://news.cnet.com/2100-1001-252681.html?	May 07 17:39
schestowitz	http://www.examiner.com/x-6683-Apple-Products-Examiner~y2009m4d27-My-top-5-Mac-apps-5-Nvu "Nvu by Linspire/Mozilla is an HTML editor, but one with a GUI, and interface"	May 07 17:43
schestowitz	What?	May 07 17:43
schestowitz	Nvu by Linspire/Mozilla?	May 07 17:43
schestowitz	Can anyone confirm this is erroneous?	May 07 17:43
Omar87	schestowitz: I just finished reading it.	May 07 17:43
Omar87	schestowitz: It does feel a bit sad..	May 07 17:44
schestowitz	trmanco: I care more about who DELETED it	May 07 17:44
trmanco	I would love to get my eyes on the article	May 07 17:44
schestowitz	trmanco: there are parellel ones	May 07 17:46
schestowitz	I think it's the Allchin statments	May 07 17:46
trmanco	I can't find it in the archive :(	May 07 17:46
trmanco	damn	May 07 17:46
schestowitz	They go to the government and describe FOSS as though it's communism that will rape your baby	May 07 17:46
schestowitz	Jm Allchin is one heck of a felon	May 07 17:46
schestowitz	You can find lots about him in BN	May 07 17:47
schestowitz	He should not be in retirement; he should be in a prison cell.	May 07 17:47
Omar87	schestowitz: I don't know why, but I feel like none of what the Jordanian Minister said about FOSS doesn't make any sense.	May 07 17:48
schestowitz	It doesn't	May 07 17:49
schestowitz	he's like Steel in the UK	May 07 17:49
schestowitz	it's a bunch of people who drink the MS Koo-Aid	May 07 17:49
schestowitz	To them, FOSS id made by kids in mom's basement	May 07 17:49
schestowitz	That's what Microsoft tells them	May 07 17:49
Omar87	Damn it man.	May 07 17:50
schestowitz	trmanco: help me find a quote	May 07 17:50
schestowitz	Somehting about GNOME devs saying "it's almost like Windows"	May 07 17:50
schestowitz	Said in reference to GNOME and Mono	May 07 17:50
trmanco	ah	May 07 17:50
trmanco	that would be nice now wouldn't it?	May 07 17:50
schestowitz	Russell quoted it a while back, but it's not easy to find	May 07 17:50
schestowitz	"Windows toys" or something	May 07 17:51
schestowitz	trmanco: I just replied to you in BN	May 07 17:51
schestowitz	But I quote just Novell de Icaza	May 07 17:51
schestowitz	It would be nice to quote non-Novellers	May 07 17:51
trmanco	let me finish reading the news, then I will try and find something	May 07 17:51
schestowitz	Like the Friendmanites	May 07 17:51
Omar87	He claims that Jordan needs to wait for companies out side to come invest here because it has no natural resources. Well, what do natural resources have to do with software???	May 07 17:51
schestowitz	Not the economist, the Nat (Microsoft employee)	May 07 17:52
schestowitz	*Friedmanites	May 07 17:52
schestowitz	Omar87: so he promotes colonialism	May 07 17:52
Omar87	It's not like you're gonna need 10000 tons of gold and diamond to build a Linux distro, right?	May 07 17:52
schestowitz	That's rubbish	May 07 17:52
schestowitz	Jordan has Petra and tourrism	May 07 17:53
schestowitz	Maybe oil too, but I think it's further east	May 07 17:53
schestowitz	To say, "let the foreigners save us" is like saying let them take out labour and offer us something	May 07 17:53
schestowitz	Like Britain in India.	May 07 17:53
Omar87	It not only doesn't make sense, it's also hilariously stupid! :D	May 07 17:53
schestowitz	Omar87: that's why I showed you this article	May 07 17:54
Omar87	schestowitz: Thanks man. :)	May 07 17:54
schestowitz	The US has no natural resources, either	May 07 17:54
schestowitz	Nothing like Iraq's	May 07 17:54
schestowitz	But it has invaded other people's countries with trade rules sicne the 19th century	May 07 17:54
schestowitz	Kind of like the British, just bigger	May 07 17:55
schestowitz	They actually took some nations from the British and even Cuba from the Spanish	May 07 17:55
schestowitz	So that they can oppress the population rather than the Spanish	May 07 17:55
schestowitz	Or look at Saddam	May 07 17:55
schestowitz	They promised to end abuse of citizens	May 07 17:55
schestowitz	But their prisons there are torture devices	May 07 17:55
schestowitz	There was an atritcle about it in the British papers today	May 07 17:56
Omar87	Even Japan has not natural resources.	May 07 17:56
schestowitz	Omar87: nope	May 07 17:56
schestowitz	Fishery	May 07 17:56
schestowitz	ushimitsudoki would know	May 07 17:56
schestowitz	Japan oppressed China	May 07 17:56
Omar87	I'll brb.	May 07 17:56
schestowitz	AFAIK from a friend who's Chinese they also slaughtered many	May 07 17:56
schestowitz	Same with the British BTW	May 07 17:56
schestowitz	Fights over slavery pretty much	May 07 17:56
schestowitz	The British had signs on property in China.	May 07 17:57
schestowitz	"No dogs and Chinese allowed" (maybe not exact quotes)	May 07 17:57
schestowitz	The Germans used similar banners before WW2	May 07 17:57
schestowitz	"I don't really see any major improvements. It looks the same. It feels the same. Same applications. Same everything." http://www.daniweb.com/blogs/entry4326.html	May 07 17:58
schestowitz	brb	May 07 18:00
schestowitz	Old new re-reported: French National Police Dump Windows for Linux < http://www.infopackets.com/news/business/microsoft/2009/20090506_french_national_police_dump_windows_for_linux.htm >. BillG visited Paris at exactly that time. Why?	May 07 18:17
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Omar87	schestowitz: By the way, regarding the line: "You have to develop software to interface with the open source, which will cost you more. A country like Jordan cannot afford such things. ", I know a guy who's not even an IT graduate (Math) but have successfully established a Fedora-based distro called Ojouba-أعجوبة (meaning: Miracle, or something extraordinary).	May 07 18:24
schestowitz	Yes, it's affordable	May 07 18:24
schestowitz	Some 'kiddie' companies like IBM and GOogle use that. Oracle too.	May 07 18:24
schestowitz	Netcraft Lists April's Most Reliable Sites < http://www.thewhir.com/web-hosting-news/050609_Netcraft_Lists_Aprils_Most_Reliable_Sites > I'm not sure Netcraft can be trusted at all.	May 07 18:25
Omar87	So "it's gonna cost you a lot" is just plain non-sense.	May 07 18:25
schestowitz	Microsoft manufactures (read: bribes analysts) to produce papers that say this	May 07 18:33
schestowitz	Dell is said to be preparing to ship Android.. http://web20.telecomtv.com/pages/?newsid=44900&id=e9381817-0593-417a-8639-c4c53e2a2a10&view=news	May 07 18:34
schestowitz	Energy of the Future: Igniting a Star With Laser Light http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2009/05/gallery_nif	May 07 18:44
schestowitz	http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/2009/05/peeve-of-day.html "I was at the optometrist with Patricia, who is near-sighted like me. Or rather - not like me, since I've had lasik, and since she's more nearsighted than I ever was. She's blind as a bat without glasses or contacts, in other words."	May 07 18:45
schestowitz	Linus wears no glasses anymore	May 07 18:46
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schestowitz	Microsoft still loses money in XBox and Nintendo.. well... Nintendo financials reveal impressive Wii, DS sales < http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/05/07/nintendo_2009_financials/ >	May 07 18:56
MinceR	Omar87: well, Wolfram Alpha doesn't seem like a general-purpose web search	May 07 19:08
schestowitz	Vista7 Draws Complaints from Mozilla < http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3819176/Windows-7-Draws-Complaints-from-Mozilla.htm >	May 07 19:09
schestowitz	Venezuelan government’s Canaima GNU/Linux 2.0.1 stable is released < http://news.northxsouth.com/2009/05/06/venezuelan-governments-canaima-gnulinux-201-stable-is-released/ > And their national migration continues.	May 07 19:14
schestowitz	http://www.blogicalthoughts.com/images/signs/945_signs.jpg	May 07 19:15
MinceR	"you are what you eat"?	May 07 19:16
Balrog_	anyone here knows wget?	May 07 19:17
schestowitz	MinceR: maybe. But it gets processed	May 07 19:17
schestowitz	Balrog_: yes, waddup?	May 07 19:17
MinceR	Balrog_: i do	May 07 19:17
schestowitz	Cat Stevens Claims Coldplay's 'Viva La Vida' Was Copied From His Song, Not Satriani's < http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090504/1649054744.shtml >	May 07 19:17
MinceR	"i can wget" "show me"	May 07 19:18
schestowitz	Early Results: Labels Losing Money on iTunes Variable Pricing...  < http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/stories/050309itunes >	May 07 19:18
Balrog_	MinceR: you know what to do when wget is pulling http://somesite.com/* then http://somesite.com/%2F%2F/* which leads to infinite recursion?	May 07 19:18
Balrog_	I added '%2F%2F' to exclude dirs, and it didn't help	May 07 19:18
schestowitz	Exclude dirs?	May 07 19:19
schestowitz	-r?	May 07 19:19
Balrog_	one sec.	May 07 19:19
schestowitz	#wget -q -r -l1 -H -t1 -nd -N -np  -erobots=off -i SITE	May 07 19:20
schestowitz	Where SITE is a file	May 07 19:20
schestowitz	with a list of URLs	May 07 19:20
schestowitz	Prison Awaiting Hostile Bloggers < http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/05/prison-awaiting-hostile-bloggers/ >	May 07 19:21
schestowitz	Be nice to the people around you.	May 07 19:21
Balrog_	'wget -m -np -E -k -K -p --user-agent=$random "-e robots=off --timeout=40 --tries=3 --exclude-directories=$exclude_directories $urls'	May 07 19:22
Balrog_	that's what my line looks like	May 07 19:22
Balrog_	though the quotes are a bit messed up there...so don't pay attention to that part	May 07 19:22
schestowitz	Congressional computers continue to be used to vandalize Wikipedia < http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Congressional_computers_continue_to_be_used_to_vandalize_Wikipedia >	May 07 19:23
schestowitz	What's it for?	May 07 19:23
schestowitz	The Pirate Google?	May 07 19:23
schestowitz	http://www.thepirategoogle.com/	May 07 19:23
Balrog_	you're asking me?	May 07 19:23
Balrog_	Archiving old sites that may disappear	May 07 19:24
Balrog_	it's part of a script that takes the site and then rar's it up (I don't like rar but it allows for already compressed files to be excluded).	May 07 19:24
schestowitz	Yes, Democracy!!111 Chief Army Chaplain in Afghanistan distributes local-language Bibles, orders congregation to convert locals < http://www.boingboing.net/2009/05/06/chief-army-chaplain.html >>	May 07 19:24
schestowitz	Some sites don't like that	May 07 19:26
schestowitz	It hammers them	May 07 19:26
schestowitz	Also, there's the issue of copyrights	May 07 19:26
Balrog_	I know about that stuff	May 07 19:26
schestowitz	Some would say even browser cache or whatever is 'violation'	May 07 19:26
Balrog_	about hammering, I use --wait-random and other wait commands	May 07 19:26
schestowitz	The Chrysler deal confirms President Obama's disregard for the law. < http://reason.com/news/show/133325.html >. The Business Party still in power.	May 07 19:27
schestowitz	Supreme Court: Feds Abusing Identity Theft Law < http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/05/supreme-court-feds-abusing-identity-theft-law/ >	May 07 19:28
schestowitz	We have a lot of terrorists in the UK. :) London cops catch and search a potential terrorist every three minutes < http://www.boingboing.net/2009/05/05/london-cops-catch-an.html >	May 07 19:29
schestowitz	The press describes Microsoft's ODF snub as a "glitch". As court exhibits show, such things are not glitches but sabotage.	May 07 19:44
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schestowitz	Be careful of what the Burton Group  says about ODF right now, Microsoft paid them a lot to attack ODF.	May 07 19:45
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schestowitz	Microsoft, Yahoo Deal Still Possible < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/05/07/microsoft-yahoo-deal-still-possible >. Microsoft has already stolen Yahoo's soul.  http://lonelyspooky.com/2009/05/06/ate-tu-yahoo/	May 07 19:55
bgtr4	lol	May 07 19:57
schestowitz	Student's Wikipedia hoax quote used worldwide in newspaper obituaries < http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0506/1224245992919.html >.	May 07 19:57
schestowitz	Here is the URL for army bibles (now you know why it's called crusade) again:  < http://www.boingboing.net/2009/05/06/chief-army-chaplain.html >	May 07 19:58
trmanco	anybody here have an ooo 3.1 spalsh screen shot around?	May 07 19:59
trmanco	splash*	May 07 20:00
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schestowitz	SplashTOP!	May 07 20:05
schestowitz	Dmitri regularly writes for these chaps now: http://www.linux-magazine.com/online/blogs/productivity_sauce_dmitri_s_open_source_blend_of_productive_computing/access_your_apps_and_docs_remotely_with_freenx < Access Your Apps and Docs Remotely with FreeNX >	May 07 20:06
bgtr4	aww. i wanted to test ff3.5b4	May 07 20:07
schestowitz	It's funny how publications that are active change over time	May 07 20:07
schestowitz	Linux.com down, Groklaw quiet, Technocrat shuts down, /. loses momentum, Linux Pro Magazine rises, SJVN comes to IDG...	May 07 20:07
bgtr4	You may have heard the news . . .	May 07 20:09
bgtr4	The Linux Foundation is taking over Linux.com.	May 07 20:09
bgtr4	what does it mean?	May 07 20:09
bgtr4	(linux.com)	May 07 20:09
schestowitz	It must be true. There are many TERROR~1 out there. 400,000 still on terror watchlist, including author of book on Rove <http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/05/06/terrorist-watchlist-exceeds-400000/ >	May 07 20:11
schestowitz	bgtr4: not much	May 07 20:12
schestowitz	Just that it's kaput	May 07 20:12
*bgtr4 should definitely read about prev owners of linux.com and linux foundation owners		May 07 20:14
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schestowitz	Criminalisation: US teacher broke law by describing creationism as 'superstitious nonsense' < http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/06/us-creationism-teacher-first-amendment >	May 07 20:15
bgtr4	linux foundation is smth beurocratic i think	May 07 20:16
schestowitz	IBM	May 07 20:16
bgtr4	70 members	May 07 20:16
schestowitz	et al	May 07 20:16
bgtr4	ibm wasn't listed the first there... but from my experience it means nothing	May 07 20:16
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bgtr4	sourceforge is the owner of linux.com?	May 07 20:18
bgtr4	and who's the owner of sourceforge?	May 07 20:18
schestowitz	US spy boss pushes for unified cyber-command center < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/06/cyber_command_center_proposal/ >	May 07 20:18
schestowitz	bgtr4: LNUX	May 07 20:19
schestowitz	@#2357235273 UK Home Secretary announces ID card pilot launch < http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/UK_Home_Secretary_announces_ID_card_pilot_launch > the Tories will love this	May 07 20:21
schestowitz	It's like in the futuristic films	May 07 20:21
schestowitz	Maybe they can brand us like cows, too	May 07 20:21
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schestowitz	Can a person really own simple facts and place on embargo on readers? http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/05/who-owns-the-facts-the-ap-and-the-hot-news-controversy.ars	May 07 20:25
schestowitz	*impose an	May 07 20:25
bgtr4	who's lnux?	May 07 20:25
bgtr4	i can't find a proper answer via search engines	May 07 20:25
bgtr4	didn't search for an hour yet to be sure that it's not described	May 07 20:27
schestowitz	Hulo, Goodbye. http://techdirt.com/articles/20090506/1650154773.shtml (Hulu Continues Its War On Users)	May 07 20:27
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schestowitz	bgtr4: Some company in the east coast	May 07 20:28
schestowitz	Nothing fancy	May 07 20:28
schestowitz	Stock crashed years ago	May 07 20:28
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schestowitz	Guy Convicted Of Hacking For Uploading Naked Picture Of Himself < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090506/0219504764.shtml >	May 07 20:29
Balrog_	schestowitz: that Infoworld article is still missing	May 07 20:30
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schestowitz	Is it...?	May 07 20:33
schestowitz	Well, how convenient	May 07 20:33
Balrog_	http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/02/09/05/020905hnmssecure.html	May 07 20:35
Balrog_	searching doesn't help	May 07 20:35
schestowitz	ushimitsudoki: LXer has just reposted your thing: http://www.olpcnews.com/sales_talk/microsoft/how_microsoft_got_xp_on_the_xo.html	May 07 20:42
schestowitz	Balrog_: to Microsoft, this is the happy ending	May 07 20:43
Balrog_	:/	May 07 20:44
schestowitz	Make a local copy from Web Archive	May 07 20:47
bgtr4	oh... i was just ignoring nasdaq links... http://www.marketwatch.com/quotes/lnux	May 07 20:50
bgtr4	so it's rising	May 07 20:51
schestowitz	LNUX up above 1% ? ;-)	May 07 20:56
bgtr4	noo	May 07 20:57
bgtr4	omg... i don't understand nasdaq	May 07 20:57
schestowitz	Zimbra is not open source. http://download.cnet.com/8301-2007_4-10233908-12.html	May 07 21:00
schestowitz	Novell's results are due by the 28th. It will be ugly because the company got not a single big MSLinux contract.	May 07 21:01
schestowitz	Heh. I only made 2 posts today in BoycottNovell today and got 202701 hits in 16 hours.	May 07 21:03
schestowitz	The site has unfulfilled potential. Some people send me tips now, which helps. Fewer are willing to contribute articles..	May 07 21:04
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schestowitz	Linux: The Operating System of the Cloud < http://www.linuxfoundation.org/publications/linuxincloud.html >	May 07 21:11
schestowitz	10 reasons why Linux will oust Windows < http://www.zdnetasia.com/insight/software/0,39044822,62052873,00.htm >	May 07 21:12
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schestowitz	KDE 4.2.3 released http://www.itrunsonlinux.com/news/65-kde-423-released http://kde.org/announcements/announce-4.2.3.php	May 07 21:12
schestowitz	PetoKraus: are you still coming to M.E.N.?	May 07 21:12
bgtr4	waht the f, why novell nasdaq rised 10 day ago and then fell?	May 07 21:13
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schestowitz	SCO fights back  for survival. http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/05/sco-to-fight-us-bankruptcy-trustees-motion-to-liquidate-it.ars  SCO to fight US bankruptcy trustee's motion to liquidate it	May 07 21:14
bgtr4	novell chose too stuped animal	May 07 21:15
*schestowitz wonders if NOVL is still on buyback-steroids		May 07 21:15
tacone	canonical sees mono as a 'desiderable skill' http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_GDOS/	May 07 21:15
schestowitz	tacone: I know	May 07 21:15
schestowitz	Python too?	May 07 21:15
schestowitz	I saw some position like that the other day	May 07 21:15
tacone	i don't think the job is about mono.	May 07 21:15
tacone	or python.	May 07 21:15
schestowitz	Yeah	May 07 21:16
tacone	is more about gnome online desktop or stuff like that.	May 07 21:16
schestowitz	That's the one I saw	May 07 21:16
schestowitz	Someone brought it up in IRC	May 07 21:16
schestowitz	_Hitcham_ IIRC	May 07 21:16
tacone	by the way, they hired a novell laiden off for this position.	May 07 21:16
tacone	http://blogs.gnome.org/rodrigo/2009/05/04/new-job/	May 07 21:16
schestowitz	I sent MarkS some info on mono	May 07 21:16
tacone	did he reply ?	May 07 21:16
schestowitz	He thanked me and smiled, but Ubuntu is too deep in this s*it	May 07 21:16
schestowitz	He goes by his engineers too	May 07 21:17
tacone	Jorge, the upstream relation manager, is a strong mono proponent.	May 07 21:17
schestowitz	Jeff Waugh used to work for him	May 07 21:17
schestowitz	Waugh is a buddy of Novell de Icazzzzzzzz	May 07 21:17
tacone	he started a meme once, 'say your hero' and elected the ubuntu mono team as his heroes	May 07 21:18
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schestowitz	really?	May 07 21:20
schestowitz	Any link to that?	May 07 21:20
schestowitz	It would be a shame if GNU/Linux became a Microsoft-infected Ubuntu-branded coaster. I am sure Microsoft will raise its voice at one stage. It's precious 'IP'	May 07 21:22
tacone	schestowitz: i sent you the link to his blog in prv	May 07 21:24
tacone	bye	May 07 21:24
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schestowitz	All your queries are [sic] belong to teh Google: "Google captured 72.74 percent of all U.S. searches in April" http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/05/07/google-search-share-up-7	May 07 21:24
Balrog_	schestowitz: do we know if moonlight 2 uses its own mono or does it use the system mono?	May 07 21:24
schestowitz	It needs Mono	May 07 21:24
schestowitz	based on what people say	May 07 21:25
schestowitz	I didn't try it	May 07 21:25
Balrog_	ok	May 07 21:25
Balrog_	I unzipped the XPI and it looks like it installs its own local copy of mono	May 07 21:25
Balrog_	the structure of the directory is similar to Silverlight for MAc	May 07 21:25
Balrog_	Mac *	May 07 21:25
Balrog_	http://pastebin.ca/1415687	May 07 21:26
schestowitz	Yahoo Testing Favicons in Sponsored Ads < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/05/07/yahoo-testing-favicons-in-sponsored-ads > Yeah, that'll save em..	May 07 21:26
Balrog_	taqke a look ... won't hurt	May 07 21:26
Balrog_	I don't like mono though, in any case.	May 07 21:26
schestowitz	"#	May 07 21:27
schestowitz	184K    ./plugins/moonlight/System.ServiceModel.dll	May 07 21:27
schestowitz	#	May 07 21:27
schestowitz	40K    ./plugins/moonlight/System.ServiceModel.Web.dll	May 07 21:27
schestowitz	#	May 07 21:27
schestowitz	64K    ./plugins/moonlight/System.Windows.Browser.dll	May 07 21:27
schestowitz	#	May 07 21:27
schestowitz	660K    ./plugins/moonlight/System.Windows.dll	May 07 21:27
schestowitz	#	May 07 21:27
schestowitz	172K    ./plugins/moonlight/System.Xml.dll	May 07 21:27
schestowitz	#	May 07 21:27
schestowitz	88K    ./plugins/moonlight/System.Xml.Linq.dll"	May 07 21:27
schestowitz	Ha...	May 07 21:27
schestowitz	Breath of fresh air	May 07 21:27
schestowitz	Feels like home for NOVELL~1	May 07 21:27
Balrog_	that's obviously mono	May 07 21:27
Balrog_	but it's locally installed .... which is easier to remove	May 07 21:27
schestowitz	So tel me...	May 07 21:27
schestowitz	When will mono be assigned to /progra~1/	May 07 21:28
schestowitz	<<< you are about to install Mono >>>	May 07 21:28
Balrog_	well there's no /progra~1/ in linux .......	May 07 21:28
schestowitz	<<<[ACCEPT] | [DENY] >>>	May 07 21:28
schestowitz	or allow/cencel	May 07 21:29
schestowitz	*ca	May 07 21:29
trmanco	uh oh	May 07 21:30
schestowitz	"Read the Tuxradar review for details. From a KDE 4 desktop user perspective, this is one the best Mandriva releases in years. Far better than Kubuntu's Jaunty for Linux newbies and experienced Linux users alike." :-)	May 07 21:31
schestowitz	ping MinceR: check out Mand 2009.1	May 07 21:31
schestowitz	Maybe MinceR is at work again (sleep)	May 07 21:31
MinceR	pong	May 07 21:31
bgtr4	lawl	May 07 21:31
bgtr4	novell~1	May 07 21:32
MinceR	not at work, just being productive ;)	May 07 21:32
bgtr4	XD	May 07 21:32
Balrog_	schestowitz: looks like they're making it so that moon/mono gets installed in ~/.mozilla/	May 07 21:32
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schestowitz	Harder to delete	May 07 21:32
schestowitz	Can't find it easily	May 07 21:32
schestowitz	Do they support Opera?	May 07 21:32
schestowitz	The binary Webovell	May 07 21:32
schestowitz	Tower of babel	May 07 21:32
Balrog_	nope, firefox only, unless you build yourself as an nsplugin	May 07 21:33
schestowitz	Wondeerful	May 07 21:33
schestowitz	Thank,s Novell	May 07 21:33
bgtr4	i still can't stop laughing	May 07 21:33
bgtr4	novell~1 XD	May 07 21:33
schestowitz	bgtr4: it's patented	May 07 21:33
schestowitz	FAT shortener	May 07 21:33
schestowitz	patents are no joke.	May 07 21:33
bgtr4	XD	May 07 21:33
schestowitz	"2009.1 simply rocks :) ." http://dodonov.net/blog/2009/05/06/mandriva-only-mode/	May 07 21:35
bgtr4	does mdv include mono by default?	May 07 21:36
schestowitz	More positive new reviews/appraisals of Mandriva 2009.1 (my favourite): http://pbs01.wordpress.com/2009/05/06/mandriva-linux-2009-spring-first-impressions/ http://beginlinux.wordpress.com/2009/05/06/mandriva-20091-install/	May 07 21:36
schestowitz	bgtr4: maybe the GNOME version	May 07 21:36
bgtr4	at least mdv 2009.1 kde one had no mono	May 07 21:37
bgtr4	rc2 or smth	May 07 21:37
bgtr4	and they had 2gb worth of installation with dat	May 07 21:37
MinceR	what kde does mandriva 2009.1 have?	May 07 21:37
bgtr4	4.2.2	May 07 21:37
bgtr4	for rc2	May 07 21:37
MinceR	and how much emphasis does mandriva put on reliability?	May 07 21:38
schestowitz	TuxRadar also loved Mandriva 2009.1 Spring http://www.tuxradar.com/content/mandriva-20091-spring	May 07 21:38
bgtr4	not much, MinceR	May 07 21:38
schestowitz	MinceR: 4.2.1/2	May 07 21:38
schestowitz	4.2.3 is out today	May 07 21:38
schestowitz	4.3 is near	May 07 21:38
schestowitz	feature freezes	May 07 21:38
schestowitz	MinceR: based on my experience, very high	May 07 21:38
schestowitz	Never had any issued on this box	May 07 21:39
schestowitz	Running 2008.1. They say 2009.1 is the best in years.	May 07 21:39
MinceR	and compared to ubuntu or ubuntu LTS?	May 07 21:39
schestowitz	But I haven't tried it yet	May 07 21:39
bgtr4	.1 is always better than .0	May 07 21:39
schestowitz	MinceR: dunno. Depends on whether it's GNOME or kde4	May 07 21:39
schestowitz	bgtr4: yes	May 07 21:39
schestowitz	Beranger told me this	May 07 21:39
bgtr4	mandriva never had good gnome	May 07 21:39
schestowitz	bgtr4: it's not a gnome distro	May 07 21:40
bgtr4	at least last 17 months	May 07 21:40
bgtr4	while i was actually using linux	May 07 21:40
bgtr4	starting from mandriva	May 07 21:40
schestowitz	I used mandrake 8. something	May 07 21:40
bgtr4	they have good manager for installation	May 07 21:41
schestowitz	Ubuntu: Two Ways to Keep A Clean Desktop Without Affecting Your Efficiency < http://maketecheasier.com/ubuntu-two-ways-to-keep-a-clean-desktop-without-affecting-your-efficiency/2009/05/06 >	May 07 21:41
bgtr4	some good tools	May 07 21:41
bgtr4	but only in debian i felt so good even though package manager just sucks and updates are rare	May 07 21:42
bgtr4	idk why	May 07 21:42
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schestowitz	Video Drivers Are All that Is Holding Linux Back (Maybe Windows 7, Too) < http://www.lockergnome.com/theoracle/2009/05/06/video-drivers-are-all-that-is-holding-linux-back-maybe-windows-7-too/ >	May 07 21:45
mib_6vah9u	bunch of poo poo heads	May 07 21:45
schestowitz	Thanks.	May 07 21:45
schestowitz	Mispelled Pooh :-)	May 07 21:45
schestowitz	*misspelled	May 07 21:45
bgtr4	gconf-editor didn't help me to get rid of lame minimizing animation	May 07 21:45
schestowitz	why minimise?	May 07 21:46
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schestowitz	vitrual desktops do more quicker	May 07 21:46
bgtr4	i use them	May 07 21:46
bgtr4	especially at work	May 07 21:46
schestowitz	Based on the insult, mib_6vah9u was one of the Linux Action Show fans	May 07 21:46
MinceR	bgtr4: compiz?	May 07 21:46
bgtr4	idk, usual debian instllation	May 07 21:47
bgtr4	barely it's compiz	May 07 21:47
bgtr4	or i would've known	May 07 21:47
schestowitz	Will Oracle resurrect Looking Glass? :-)	May 07 21:47
bgtr4	oh, you advice to use compiz to solve dat	May 07 21:47
MinceR	bgtr4: if it is, then you can change or disable the minimizing animation via CompizConfig Settings Manager	May 07 21:47
schestowitz	Mine's lava lamp	May 07 21:48
schestowitz	To anger Apple	May 07 21:48
schestowitz	It holds a patent on this	May 07 21:48
bgtr4	lol	May 07 21:48
schestowitz	Pissed the Compiz people off	May 07 21:48
schestowitz	Maybe Aaron Seigo too	May 07 21:48
bgtr4	patents are so immature	May 07 21:48
schestowitz	Apple predates hollywood	May 07 21:48
schestowitz	And alladin	May 07 21:48
bgtr4	they will learn once they are quite restricted	May 07 21:48
schestowitz	It saw him sneaking out of the bottle	May 07 21:48
schestowitz	INNOVA~1 YEAH YEAH BURN BBAY	May 07 21:49
bgtr4	i want to believe red hat arose that patent deal not in vain	May 07 21:51
schestowitz	which one?	May 07 21:52
schestowitz	Windows gains market share in BN (more trolls).	May 07 21:52
bgtr4	to complain about m$ abuses	May 07 21:52
bgtr4	mostly	May 07 21:52
schestowitz	44.2 % Windows - 44.8 % Linux (this month)	May 07 21:52
bgtr4	and european union should change laws	May 07 21:52
schestowitz	Red Hat is weird	May 07 21:52
schestowitz	UK approves software patent today	May 07 21:52
bgtr4	so patents are no that shit as m$ wants them to be	May 07 21:52
schestowitz	ish	May 07 21:52
bgtr4	i did post the link	May 07 21:53
schestowitz	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/07/ipo_approve_software_patent/	May 07 21:53
schestowitz	I'll protest along with others	May 07 21:53
bgtr4	about 2 days ago	May 07 21:53
schestowitz	Allsion Brimelow and her goons	May 07 21:53
schestowitz	They just want to make more monet	May 07 21:53
schestowitz	More patents, more money	May 07 21:53
bgtr4	they made a 11 pages complaint	May 07 21:53
schestowitz	That's why there should be parliamentary regulation	May 07 21:53
schestowitz	But the EPO almost breaks the law	May 07 21:54
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schestowitz	hi, mike	May 07 21:54
mike	u have to be kidding me	May 07 21:54
mike	with that post...	May 07 21:54
schestowitz	how come?	May 07 21:54
schestowitz	Which one?	May 07 21:54
*mike is now known as Guest40817		May 07 21:54
Guest40817	Is Jupiter Broadcasting’s Linux Action Show Anti-GNU/Linux?	May 07 21:54
schestowitz	No, it's no joke	May 07 21:55
schestowitz	They disregard many values	May 07 21:55
Guest40817	well guess what	May 07 21:55
schestowitz	Hmmm...	May 07 21:55
Guest40817	i am an op on Jupiter Broadcasting	May 07 21:55
schestowitz	I need to change toothbrush :-)	May 07 21:55
schestowitz	OK	May 07 21:55
schestowitz	i an an op on BN :-D	May 07 21:56
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schestowitz	OpenOffice.org 3.1 is born < http://www.openoffice.org/news/ >	May 07 21:58
schestowitz	very long.	May 07 21:58
MinceR	i'm an op on ~15 channels.	May 07 21:58
MinceR	and i'm an ircop on 1 network. :>	May 07 21:58
schestowitz	Multi-processor support coming for Firefox < http://mozillalinks.org/wp/2009/05/multi-processor-support-coming-for-firefox/ > Chrome, we hardly knew thy.	May 07 21:59
MinceR	chromium isn't dead yet, is it?	May 07 21:59
schestowitz	Practicially?	May 07 22:00
schestowitz	Clinically?	May 07 22:00
bgtr4	that was that article: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/30/red_hat_europe_patents/	May 07 22:00
schestowitz	Funny Firefox < http://linuxsysconfig.com/2009/05/funny-firefox/ >	May 07 22:00
bgtr4	did you guys read it?	May 07 22:00
MinceR	wow, RH changed their mind about sw patents?	May 07 22:01
MinceR	(also known as "computer-implemented inventions")	May 07 22:01
bgtr4	The board is expected to receive a similar report from patents hit factory IBM, while it has already received reports from consumer electronics giant Philips and a number of academics	May 07 22:02
schestowitz	MinceR sleeps around with 51 chans	May 07 22:03
MinceR	:)	May 07 22:03
schestowitz	MinceR: they changed no mind	May 07 22:03
bgtr4	seems like they all are tired of m$ abuse of patents	May 07 22:03
schestowitz	They resist sw patents	May 07 22:03
schestowitz	While filing for some	May 07 22:03
MinceR	so they're lying?	May 07 22:03
schestowitz	But But BUT! It's only defensive	May 07 22:03
schestowitz	The classic excuse	May 07 22:04
MinceR	we all know what the best defense is	May 07 22:04
schestowitz	MinceR: they have engineers, but they also have IP people	May 07 22:04
schestowitz	I.e. useless staff	May 07 22:04
schestowitz	People who were trained not to develop	May 07 22:04
bgtr4	so rh is just playing?	May 07 22:04
schestowitz	But to work around developers and walk where work is done	May 07 22:04
schestowitz	And offer some bubble-like prootection	May 07 22:04
MinceR	maybe it's a schizophrenic company	May 07 22:04
schestowitz	By asking engineers WHAT patents they  can type up	May 07 22:05
MinceR	do they own those "defensive" sw patents or does some sort of patent pool own them?	May 07 22:05
schestowitz	"Hitting a person nostril using rigid apparatus.."	May 07 22:05
bgtr4	not defeinsive patents	May 07 22:05
schestowitz	Patents are not defensives	May 07 22:06
schestowitz	*sive	May 07 22:06
schestowitz	Not more than guns are	May 07 22:06
bgtr4	guns are not defensive	May 07 22:06
bgtr4	especially against knife	May 07 22:06
schestowitz	It's one among a set of lie_s{i}	May 07 22:06
schestowitz	"more patents=more innovation"	May 07 22:06
schestowitz	"Patents protect small investors"	May 07 22:06
bgtr4	gun just makes you feel like protected	May 07 22:06
schestowitz	"Patents help the economy.."	May 07 22:06
schestowitz	*inventors	May 07 22:07
schestowitz	I can never type "inventor"	May 07 22:07
bgtr4	but some big companies abuse patents	May 07 22:07
schestowitz	Always comes out with an S	May 07 22:07
schestowitz	I also can't type Russia	May 07 22:07
schestowitz	bgtr4: just holding them is abusing them	May 07 22:07
bgtr4	what do you type instead?	May 07 22:07
schestowitz	Like Microsoft	May 07 22:07
schestowitz	"we know Linux infringes"	May 07 22:07
schestowitz	"We have portfolio"	May 07 22:08
schestowitz	"Cherish our IP"	May 07 22:08
bgtr4	patents are themselves abuse	May 07 22:08
schestowitz	Imagine living in a neighbourhood  where there is little crime because everyone is terrified from one another	May 07 22:08
bgtr4	in the way they are	May 07 22:08
schestowitz	A  gun on every deak --billG :-)	May 07 22:08
schestowitz	*desk	May 07 22:08
MinceR	happiness is a warm gun.	May 07 22:09
bgtr4	i gotta buy another beer to understand that	May 07 22:09
bgtr4	"happiness is a warm gun:"	May 07 22:09
schestowitz	Palm WebOS to breathe new life into Foleo? < http://apcmag.com/palm-looks-to-breathe-new-life-into-failed-foleo.htm > More rumours, interesting nonetheless.	May 07 22:09
bgtr4	i kinda already know what it means	May 07 22:09
bgtr4	but i gotta understand how you came to this	May 07 22:10
schestowitz	warm gun	May 07 22:10
schestowitz	Sounds like something from a Blue movie	May 07 22:10
schestowitz	Not a good phrase, MinceR	May 07 22:10
bgtr4	there are plenty of meaning of this sentence, schestowitz	May 07 22:10
bgtr4	meanings	May 07 22:10
schestowitz	Maybe smoking gun	May 07 22:10
bgtr4	no	May 07 22:10
bgtr4	quite different	May 07 22:10
bgtr4	but it's outside of this channel	May 07 22:11
bgtr4	and i'm gone for beer	May 07 22:11
MinceR	225314 <@NiTessine> I think it should be tested. Suspend the Pope from a great height in midair, see if he's really infallible.	May 07 22:15
MinceR	oops, wrong paste.	May 07 22:15
MinceR	http://slated.org/mono_is_dangerous_and_redundant	May 07 22:16
schestowitz	Linux Action Show mob is aboard :0( XBMC	May 07 22:16
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/05/linux-sucks-fud/comment-page-1/#comment-63154	May 07 22:16
schestowitz	Slated seems to have taken a long break from teh Internets	May 07 22:17
schestowitz	"That led into his reason why he doesn't use the GPL any more. In his eyes, the GPL comes with implicit philosophical baggage -- in this case, putting freedom to hack above other software freedoms. He opted for the BSD license or a variant thereof, which is unambiguous and carries little baggage."	May 07 22:22
schestowitz	Oh, yeah... the philosophy of SCIENCE.	May 07 22:22
schestowitz	http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/05/no_gpl_for_me_t.html;jsessionid=OJORLGLPICDBOQSNDLRSKH0CJUNN2JVN	May 07 22:22
bgtr4	these guys just don't understand, that you can do almost everything with linux as with any other platform. they want to have windows for free and yet it's not even the best solution	May 07 22:25
MinceR	his friend misunderstands sw freedom	May 07 22:25
MinceR	it's not just the freedom to hack	May 07 22:25
bgtr4	they don't even understand what's to hack	May 07 22:26
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MinceR	if John Smith hires a sw developer to modify a program he used so that he can get his data out of it in a portable format, then John Smith certainly isn't exercising his freedom to hack	May 07 22:28
schestowitz	Duke Nukem dies again: Now I know what SCO and Duke have in common	May 07 22:28
schestowitz	Duke McBride	May 07 22:28
MinceR	Duke isn't dead	May 07 22:28
schestowitz	He is	May 07 22:28
MinceR	Duke Nukem Whenever might be	May 07 22:28
schestowitz	Fell off his jetpack	May 07 22:28
MinceR	Apogee is still working on Duke Nukem Trilogy	May 07 22:28
schestowitz	Not the bazookas	May 07 22:29
MinceR	and Take2 still owns Duke Nukem Whenever	May 07 22:29
MinceR	whatever is completed of it so far	May 07 22:29
schestowitz	Ah..	May 07 22:29
schestowitz	Selling data, model and engine	May 07 22:29
schestowitz	The Duke "IP"	May 07 22:29
MinceR	well, the engine is from Epic	May 07 22:29
schestowitz	Epic FAIL :-D	May 07 22:30
MinceR	not really	May 07 22:30
schestowitz	I know	May 07 22:30
MinceR	the Unreal Engine is one of the most advanced game engines around	May 07 22:30
schestowitz	I just had a train of thought	May 07 22:30
MinceR	also, i'm not quite sure who owns the Duke Nukem character	May 07 22:30
schestowitz	The USian army	May 07 22:30
MinceR	unlikely	May 07 22:30
schestowitz	He's the sort of character that is intended to increase recruiting	May 07 22:31
schestowitz	GI Joe typwe	May 07 22:31
MinceR	i doubt it	May 07 22:31
schestowitz	John Ramb0	May 07 22:31
MinceR	he is no soldier	May 07 22:31
schestowitz	No?	May 07 22:31
schestowitz	Looks like it	May 07 22:31
MinceR	and no member of any armed force	May 07 22:31
MinceR	he's a lone hero :)	May 07 22:31
schestowitz	I haven't played it in ages	May 07 22:31
schestowitz	I remember level one very, very well	May 07 22:31
schestowitz	noookilar warrior?	May 07 22:32
MinceR	:)	May 07 22:32
schestowitz	ze type of person Bush would call, "my kinda of guy"	May 07 22:33
bgtr4	i won't miss duke nukem	May 07 22:35
bgtr4	if it doesn't release	May 07 22:35
bgtr4	i played wolf3d and then i came to "old" games like q1 megatf, oni, evolva, ...	May 07 22:37
MinceR	i will, i liked that character	May 07 22:38
bgtr4	if they get reimplement for current middleware	May 07 22:38
bgtr4	they are absolute hits	May 07 22:38
bgtr4	middleware here is opengl and dx	May 07 22:39
MinceR	cursed zdnetasia makes the page reload itself regularly	May 07 22:39
MinceR	pretty rotten way to get hits	May 07 22:39
bgtr4	piratic sites can't be reliable on notrotten ways	May 07 22:42
bgtr4	remember, it's piratic foundations that gave people free windows	May 07 22:44
bgtr4	they are good to have it free but they make it free and yet they do right thing	May 07 22:44
bgtr4	'cause law should be adjusted	May 07 22:45
bgtr4	internet should be free for all	May 07 22:45
bgtr4	not just with enforced usa laws	May 07 22:45
bgtr4	it should have no laws	May 07 22:45
bgtr4	--> no patents abuse... no drm... no insanely restricting copyrights	May 07 22:46
bgtr4	but yet more sane software to restrict access on users' choice, more avs and other apps	May 07 22:48
MinceR	gn	May 07 22:49
schestowitz	"Microsoft Incentives (msincentives) is now following your updates on Twitter."	May 07 22:51
schestowitz	WTF?	May 07 22:51
bgtr4	lol	May 07 22:53
bgtr4	that's just lol and nothing to worry about	May 07 22:53
schestowitz	They have other accounts	May 07 22:53
schestowitz	it's the MS bribe-U accounts	May 07 22:53
schestowitz	They have agencies working on Twitter	May 07 22:53
bgtr4	they all act in the same way	May 07 22:53
schestowitz	Microsoft still works like a mafia there	May 07 22:54
schestowitz	Waggener Enstrom is spying on users	May 07 22:54
schestowitz	Federated Media is policing twitter for Microsoft	May 07 22:54
bgtr4	it's just funny to watch at m$ guys	May 07 22:54
bgtr4	they piss off	May 07 22:54
bgtr4	they piss off at anything that's against m$ and if you mention linux they are twice berserk	May 07 22:54
bgtr4	and m$ isn't something you can go with but rather be a slave of what	May 07 22:55
bgtr4	the good strategy is to let them run into wall	May 07 22:59
bgtr4	like let them understand where they are dumb at	May 07 23:00
bgtr4	or let them understand how weak they are	May 07 23:01
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bgtr4	like spending plenty of $$ to make shit	May 07 23:02
bgtr4	because m$ said so	May 07 23:02
schestowitz	They're done	May 07 23:03
bgtr4	or that they just make no sense	May 07 23:03
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bgtr4	(links involved for EVERY case and they are far from reality) or	May 07 23:05
bgtr4	...	May 07 23:06
bgtr4	i'm not eager to make a howto for dat, it's just obvious once you read that m$-addicted non-believing in themselves slaves	May 07 23:07
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bgtr4	even though i use windows (pirated, for games), but i never bought m$ products and never will	May 07 23:08
bgtr4	in fact... i never bought anyones' products	May 07 23:09
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bgtr4	even though i'm capable of	May 07 23:10
schestowitz	I never bought s/w	May 07 23:14
schestowitz	libervisco: thanks for the site.  I use it now	May 07 23:14
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libervisco	schestowitz, glad to hear, np :)	May 07 23:16
schestowitz	it's good to have input that is inspirational for conversations and writings	May 07 23:17
libervisco	yeah	May 07 23:18
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_Hicham_	has anyone of u worked with THC Hydra?	May 07 23:20
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tacone	microsoft imposes limits on netbooks hardware when it comes to ship windows on them	May 07 23:24
tacone	http://www.itexaminer.com/microsoft-adds-to-atoms-restrictions.aspx	May 07 23:24
bgtr4	lol	May 07 23:24
bgtr4	if people subdue	May 07 23:24
schestowitz	Is this news?	May 07 23:25
bgtr4	i'd better not tell what's pending	May 07 23:25
schestowitz	It just comes to show that Microsoft is a curse to consumers. The EU Commission should be informed and ask to react	May 07 23:26
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schestowitz	*aked	May 07 23:26
schestowitz	*asked	May 07 23:26
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_Hicham_	wb oiaohm	May 07 23:45
oiaohm	Hi _Hicham_	May 07 23:46
_Hicham_	just woke up?	May 07 23:47
oiaohm	The ODF thing attacking MS for not supporting it will not get anywhere.   Attacking them on the lines the must lack the staff to built it correctly is more the correct line.   _Hicham_ yep.	May 07 23:47
_Hicham_	good morning then	May 07 23:48
_Hicham_	the ODF shouldn't be supported by Microsoft	May 07 23:48
_Hicham_	XML is maintained by Novell, which is enough for Microsoft	May 07 23:48
oiaohm	Proper support breaks down there hold on market _Hicham_	May 07 23:48
_Hicham_	that is why I am saying that	May 07 23:49
_Hicham_	they pay Novell to develop an openoffice plugin that can handle docx files	May 07 23:49
oiaohm	ODF should be supported by MS.	May 07 23:49
_Hicham_	MS should be isolated	May 07 23:49
_Hicham_	to ease its death	May 07 23:50
_Hicham_	quarantined	May 07 23:50
oiaohm	Basically the should be forced to or publically discredited and made look suspect.	May 07 23:50
_Hicham_	it is a plague	May 07 23:50
oiaohm	isolated does not kill MS.	May 07 23:50
oiaohm	MS got it right a long time ago.	May 07 23:50
_Hicham_	why?	May 07 23:50
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_Hicham_	how?	May 07 23:50
oiaohm	Embrace Extend Extingish   Ok last word is spelt wrong.	May 07 23:50
_Hicham_	extinguish	May 07 23:51
_Hicham_	no problem	May 07 23:51
oiaohm	You embrace them so there users can move to your platform without issues.	May 07 23:51
_Hicham_	time has changed	May 07 23:51
oiaohm	You extend so you add more features.	May 07 23:51
oiaohm	So you Extingish.	May 07 23:51
_Hicham_	that was old strategy	May 07 23:52
oiaohm	What can add features faster Open Source or Microsoft.	May 07 23:52
_Hicham_	when Linux was still a baby	May 07 23:52
_Hicham_	Linux now has a terrific support	May 07 23:52
_Hicham_	everyone is participating	May 07 23:52
oiaohm	Linux is Extending faster than MS could dream.	May 07 23:52
oiaohm	Most major open source programs are.	May 07 23:52
_Hicham_	all software vendors are porting their s/w to Linux	May 07 23:52
_Hicham_	Linux is embracing Windows	May 07 23:53
oiaohm	Exactly.	May 07 23:53
_Hicham_	Windows can't embrace Linux	May 07 23:53
_Hicham_	Linux is too big now	May 07 23:53
oiaohm	ODF needs to embrace Microsoft.	May 07 23:53
oiaohm	Ie Microsoft produces a ODF standard document that works.	May 07 23:53
_Hicham_	Microsoft is embraced through Novell extension to OpenOffice	May 07 23:54
oiaohm	Then ODF can extend it leaving MS in the dust so Extingish them.	May 07 23:54
oiaohm	OOXML is really not getting very far.	May 07 23:54
_Hicham_	docx wasn't  well received	May 07 23:54
oiaohm	Just embracing OpenOffice is not enough.	May 07 23:54
oiaohm	They failed to embrace abiword and koffice.	May 07 23:55
_Hicham_	almost all users are using doc format	May 07 23:55
_Hicham_	abiword is great	May 07 23:55
_Hicham_	koffice also	May 07 23:55
oiaohm	doc format was MS embrace and extend of the past.	May 07 23:55
_Hicham_	they should survive	May 07 23:55
_Hicham_	abiword is well for low end machines	May 07 23:55
_Hicham_	say old machines	May 07 23:55
oiaohm	So you want them to survive to get that you need MS supporting ODF.	May 07 23:55
_Hicham_	no	May 07 23:56
_Hicham_	MS do not have to support ODF	May 07 23:56
_Hicham_	their document format is not getting anywhere	May 07 23:56
DaemonFC	if people send me docx, I convert it to odt before sending it back with a link to the covnersion filter	May 07 23:56
_Hicham_	doc is fully supported by OpenOffice	May 07 23:56
oiaohm	So if Microsoft don't  support ODF you turn it into a public embasement the worse you can think up.   And the worst I can think up is that MS lacks the developers to do it.	May 07 23:57
oiaohm	If that is the case MS Office is now a major secuirty risk.	May 07 23:57
_Hicham_	MS Office have been always a security risk to everyone	May 07 23:58
oiaohm	Old rule of FUD.	May 07 23:58
oiaohm	fear uncertainty & doubt	May 07 23:58
_Hicham_	personally, I don't use doc files too much	May 07 23:58
_Hicham_	I request pdf files	May 07 23:59
oiaohm	When it comes to PR games most of the rules are set in stone.	May 07 23:59
_Hicham_	sending a document is doc format is a real shame	May 07 23:59
oiaohm	MS Office suxs at producing printable PDF's as well.	May 07 23:59
_Hicham_	Microsoft Office is very buggy and sluggish	May 07 23:59