| schestowitz | Like the type who would sit there watching the thing print | May 09 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | Full atttendance, no multitasking | May 09 00:00 |
| LastGuyonEarth | haha! | May 09 00:00 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Gotta love old-school machines. | May 09 00:00 |
| schestowitz | Multitasking is something that is less natural to certain workers | May 09 00:00 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Indeed. | May 09 00:00 |
| schestowitz | Likewise management of bits as opposed to paper | May 09 00:00 |
| schestowitz | Like organising versionb | May 09 00:00 |
| schestowitz | Some people still send PDfs back and forth | May 09 00:00 |
| schestowitz | You can get them to trust Wikis | May 09 00:00 |
| LastGuyonEarth | heh. | May 09 00:01 |
| *Balrog (n=Balrog@71.255.107.197) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 00:02 | |
| LastGuyonEarth | To be entirely fair, I don't see anything wrong with using a wiki as a reference point for understanding something. | May 09 00:03 |
| schestowitz | Editing things | May 09 00:03 |
| schestowitz | Or managing in a CMS | May 09 00:03 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Understood. | May 09 00:03 |
| LastGuyonEarth | However. | May 09 00:03 |
| schestowitz | So anyway... | May 09 00:03 |
| schestowitz | RPM speed is no big issue | May 09 00:03 |
| schestowitz | Unless you depend criticially on propagaation | May 09 00:03 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I've just had nothing but bad experiences for myself. | May 09 00:04 |
| schestowitz | Like if you depend on it to complete before you can, I dunno, browse the Web. | May 09 00:04 |
| LastGuyonEarth | That said, Fedora has always been an excellent distro for general desktop use. | May 09 00:04 |
| LastGuyonEarth | And updating in and of itself is simple enough. | May 09 00:04 |
| schestowitz | Speed is less important than reliability and consistency | May 09 00:04 |
| schestowitz | Better than DLL hell | May 09 00:04 |
| schestowitz | Or... | May 09 00:04 |
| schestowitz | Reboot | May 09 00:04 |
| LastGuyonEarth | This is very true. | May 09 00:04 |
| schestowitz | Would you like that beter? :-) | May 09 00:04 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Regardless, both of us can agree that Linux has made much improvement on package management. | May 09 00:05 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Regardless of preference. | May 09 00:05 |
| *DaemonFC (n=DaemonFC@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 00:05 | |
| LastGuyonEarth | Got sort of quiet all of a sudden. | May 09 00:06 |
| schestowitz | Not really | May 09 00:07 |
| schestowitz | Well, I remember deps in SUSE 8.1 | May 09 00:07 |
| schestowitz | It was harder | May 09 00:07 |
| schestowitz | No repos almost | May 09 00:07 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I remember SuSE. | May 09 00:08 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I didn't care much for it. | May 09 00:08 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Starting up and setting up OpenSuse 10.0 was a pain. | May 09 00:09 |
| LastGuyonEarth | It was nice-looking. | May 09 00:09 |
| LastGuyonEarth | And the modifications to KDE4 were interesting. | May 09 00:09 |
| LastGuyonEarth | But package management and driver installation made me want to crawl into a fetal position and cry. | May 09 00:09 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/4752/98622450.png | May 09 00:10 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Wow. | May 09 00:10 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Fat lot of good that must be. | May 09 00:11 |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 09 00:11 |
| LastGuyonEarth | He at least gets points for running VLC, Chrome, and Pidgin. | May 09 00:11 |
| DaemonFC | buy one get one free | May 09 00:11 |
| DaemonFC | but there's your XP Mode | May 09 00:11 |
| LastGuyonEarth | You mean, buy one get two? | May 09 00:11 |
| DaemonFC | and didn't cost me anything | May 09 00:11 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Nicely doen. | May 09 00:11 |
| LastGuyonEarth | *done | May 09 00:11 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I'm really impressed with the OGG Theora playback in Firefox 3.5b | May 09 00:13 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I like the little JavaScript player that is drawn atop the videos. | May 09 00:14 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Very neat. | May 09 00:14 |
| DaemonFC | I'm playing with WinFLP some more | May 09 00:14 |
| DaemonFC | IE is an option | May 09 00:14 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 09 00:14 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: hows mem usage? | May 09 00:14 |
| DaemonFC | so are Media Player and DirectX | May 09 00:14 |
| LastGuyonEarth | With Firefox and Opera gaining support for OGG playback, it'll only be a matter of time before Webkit adopts it. | May 09 00:15 |
| DaemonFC | fairly good actually | May 09 00:15 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Then IE will have to support OGG. | May 09 00:15 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Yay! | May 09 00:15 |
| DaemonFC | it will run decently all the way down to 128 megs of RAM | May 09 00:15 |
| DaemonFC | lower than 64 an it will thrash the swap file | May 09 00:15 |
| DaemonFC | so you definitely are in the ballpark of some old XP machines | May 09 00:16 |
| DaemonFC | maybe even some that shipped with 98 or Me | May 09 00:16 |
| DaemonFC | the difference is that this runs decently | May 09 00:16 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Heh. | May 09 00:17 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: The only problem is that if you don't have IE, then programs that embed it will bitch | May 09 00:17 |
| DaemonFC | or refuse to run | May 09 00:17 |
| DaemonFC | those are easy to avoid | May 09 00:17 |
| DaemonFC | you will need DirectX obviously | May 09 00:17 |
| DaemonFC | Media Player, not so much really since it's just a DirectShow frontend | May 09 00:18 |
| DaemonFC | it does do what it's meant for, you can trim it to do custom tasks even if you don't give it support for the rest | May 09 00:19 |
| DaemonFC | so it can be anything from totally gutted to near full XP Professional | May 09 00:19 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Gasp. | May 09 00:19 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I just deleted my YouTube account. | May 09 00:19 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Go me. | May 09 00:19 |
| schestowitz | Why? | May 09 00:23 |
| schestowitz | Delete? | May 09 00:23 |
| schestowitz | Oh privacy? | May 09 00:23 |
| schestowitz | I'm sure Google keeps a copy | May 09 00:23 |
| schestowitz | visibility=off; | May 09 00:23 |
| schestowitz | / cia_visibility=on; | May 09 00:23 |
| *mib_mnwxfo has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | May 09 00:23 | |
| LastGuyonEarth | Well, that and the fact that YouTube has a pretty tenacious grip of what kind of content you can post. | May 09 00:24 |
| LastGuyonEarth | It's all become heavily corporatized anyway. | May 09 00:24 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I moved to Blip.tv for the time being, as it at least allowed me to upload all my videos in OGG Theora. | May 09 00:24 |
| LastGuyonEarth | And people can play and download the videos in OGG. | May 09 00:25 |
| schestowitz | Blip.tv can be bought | May 09 00:31 |
| schestowitz | You never know... | May 09 00:31 |
| schestowitz | Google bought YouTube | May 09 00:31 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft stuck it bas teeth in a soapbox | May 09 00:32 |
| schestowitz | *its | May 09 00:32 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I know. | May 09 00:34 |
| LastGuyonEarth | But it's the best I've got for the moment. | May 09 00:34 |
| LastGuyonEarth | If only TheoraSea did uploads... | May 09 00:34 |
| DaemonFC | OK, I worked it out | May 09 00:35 |
| schestowitz | It doesn't?? | May 09 00:35 |
| DaemonFC | the furthest you can trim WinFLP is 611 megs | May 09 00:35 |
| DaemonFC | that's installed size | May 09 00:35 |
| LastGuyonEarth | schestowitz: TheoraSea only aggregates links to OGG Theora videos, which are streamed through its iTheora player. | May 09 00:36 |
| LastGuyonEarth | There's also still no free replacement for Facebook or Myspace, even though some really excellent GPL platforms are out there. | May 09 00:36 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Elgg is really promising. | May 09 00:36 |
| DaemonFC | the bad news is you can't use Windows Update | May 09 00:37 |
| DaemonFC | the good news is that all the security updates are for IE and Windows Media Player anyway | May 09 00:37 |
| LastGuyonEarth | schestowitz: Interesting article on SCO. | May 09 00:38 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Your latest one, I mean. | May 09 00:38 |
| DaemonFC | the control panel applet still works though :) | May 09 00:38 |
| *Carl_Rover2k12 (n=me@ool-45732edc.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 00:41 | |
| LastGuyonEarth | I'm heading out to eat. | May 09 00:42 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Talk to you guys later. | May 09 00:42 |
| *LastGuyonEarth has quit ("Leaving") | May 09 00:42 | |
| _Hicham_ | who is still here? | May 09 00:52 |
| schestowitz | o/ | May 09 00:53 |
| _Hicham_ | I thought u went to bed | May 09 00:53 |
| *silentivm has quit ("*** [make] Error 2") | May 09 00:54 | |
| DaemonFC | I spoke too soon | May 09 00:57 |
| DaemonFC | apparently it only deleted IE, not their rendering engine | May 09 00:57 |
| DaemonFC | setting a few registry keys fools programs into thinking IE is still there | May 09 00:58 |
| _Hicham_ | did u delete mshtml.dll? | May 09 01:03 |
| schestowitz | We have a little situation not being able to find a very important article (see details in http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/06/microsoft-cnet-amnesia/#comments ). Is there any way we could get it restroted or get hold of it? | May 09 01:07 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: is an IE guru | May 09 01:07 |
| schestowitz | Knows every corner of the Beast | May 09 01:07 |
| schestowitz | Got problems with IE? _Hicham_ 's your GUY! | May 09 01:08 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : I will write IE for Linux when I will have time to | May 09 01:09 |
| _Hicham_ | like that, Windows Users will feel at home | May 09 01:10 |
| _Hicham_ | basically, IE is a GUI wrapper around mshtml.dll | May 09 01:10 |
| _bgtr4 | yeah, also write m$office for linux | May 09 01:11 |
| _Hicham_ | Microsoft offers a rich API to do so | May 09 01:11 |
| _Hicham_ | no, MS Office, no | May 09 01:11 |
| _bgtr4 | and a project server | May 09 01:12 |
| _Hicham_ | I won't then release it under GPL | May 09 01:12 |
| _bgtr4 | but the main thing is to rename button to "start" | May 09 01:12 |
| _Hicham_ | I will release it under my favorite License : Qt License | May 09 01:13 |
| _Hicham_ | you can rename the button to start or whatever you want | May 09 01:13 |
| _Hicham_ | in gnome it is very simple, u just modify ur current theme start-here file | May 09 01:13 |
| _Hicham_ | in KDE, I don't know | May 09 01:14 |
| DaemonFC | http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9687/67438080.png | May 09 01:14 |
| _Hicham_ | what is this image for? | May 09 01:18 |
| *Carl_Rover2k12 has quit () | May 09 01:32 | |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: I watch Zeitgeist now | May 09 01:46 |
| *magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection) | May 09 01:47 | |
| *_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving.") | May 09 02:32 | |
| *ushimitsudoki1 (n=ushimits@p2208-ipad06yosemiya.okinawa.ocn.ne.jp) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 02:46 | |
| *ushimitsudoki has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | May 09 03:08 | |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-99-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 03:47 | |
| *Omar871 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | May 09 03:53 | |
| *_Hicham_1 (n=hicham@wana-99-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 03:55 | |
| *_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | May 09 03:55 | |
| *_Hicham_1 is now known as _Hicham_ | May 09 03:56 | |
| *Omar87 (n=omar@94.249.12.190) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 04:11 | |
| *_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | May 09 04:22 | |
| *ushimitsudoki (n=ushimits@58.88.186.178) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 04:36 | |
| *ushimitsudoki1 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | May 09 04:53 | |
| *tim_ (n=tim@adsl-76-252-78-34.dsl.lgtpmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 05:12 | |
| *tim_ is now known as Korlis | May 09 05:13 | |
| *Korlis has quit (Remote closed the connection) | May 09 05:14 | |
| *mib_atrju2 (i=45f506e4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0f20ffcf962ca06d) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 05:34 | |
| *mib_atrju2 (i=45f506e4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0f20ffcf962ca06d) has left #boycottnovell | May 09 05:34 | |
| *mib_b753ep (i=45f506e4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1b1690a40782f6b7) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 05:34 | |
| *mib_b753ep (i=45f506e4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1b1690a40782f6b7) has left #boycottnovell | May 09 05:35 | |
| *shreddar (i=45f506e4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7ab173fe43e3c9f4) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 05:36 | |
| *shreddar (i=45f506e4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7ab173fe43e3c9f4) has left #boycottnovell | May 09 05:40 | |
| *mib_3o77ji (i=4424112a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e58a81fdbb127fb9) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 05:45 | |
| *mib_3o77ji has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | May 09 05:53 | |
| *twitter (i=willhill@97-113-229-235.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 06:00 | |
| PJ asks M$ for an explanation of their smear tactics. http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2009050712493241 | May 09 06:01 | |
| It's about time their behavior was brought out into the light. | May 09 06:01 | |
| ha another M$ victim, Dan Greer. http://www.networkworld.com/weblogs/security/003879.html | May 09 06:37 | |
| *kentma has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | May 09 06:37 | |
| *twitter has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | May 09 07:12 | |
| *zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@117.199.132.146) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 07:37 | |
| *zer0c00l has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) | May 09 07:44 | |
| *PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 07:56 | |
| *zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@117.199.136.236) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 08:01 | |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 08:20 | |
| *DaemonFC has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | May 09 09:36 | |
| *kentma (n=user@host86-152-101-114.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 09:39 | |
| schestowitz | Morning.. | May 09 10:19 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft 'Patents' ODF Whilst Also Harming It < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/09/microsoft-patents-odf/ > | May 09 10:56 |
| schestowitz | Who Covers Mono Again? Microsoft. < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/09/microsoft-covers-mono-in-press/ > | May 09 10:57 |
| _bgtr4 | how can anyone patent saving anything in xml format? | May 09 11:18 |
| oiaohm | Hmm Patents ODF this could get bad. Direct attack on IBM and Orcale. | May 09 11:18 |
| oiaohm | Its a direct attack in Orcales document management system that uses ODF internally. So pre sun aquirement. | May 09 11:20 |
| schestowitz | Impressed by OpenOffice, Bill Gates Schemes to Use Software Patents Against It < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/10/bill-gates-patents-vs-free-office/ > | May 09 11:23 |
| *magentar (n=magentar@94.79.143.32) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 11:28 | |
| oiaohm | http://arstechnica.com/security/news/2009/05/zeus-botnet-hits-the-kill-switch-takes-down-100000-pcs.ars Hmm where next. | May 09 11:29 |
| schestowitz | Is Microsoft Breaking the Law in Switzerland Too? < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/09/switzerland-microsoft-london-olympics/ > | May 09 11:35 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: i'll add it to the next post about security | May 09 11:36 |
| trmanco | http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/01d7139c0c98f0e5 | May 09 11:37 |
| trmanco | :) | May 09 11:37 |
| oiaohm | 100 000 is a small number of machines to turn off t once. Wonder what the ripples when the first 1mil+ machine turn off will be. | May 09 11:38 |
| *magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection) | May 09 11:40 | |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: also machines at hospitals | May 09 11:44 |
| oiaohm | People don't understand how much IT rules the word. | May 09 11:47 |
| *liberfiasco (n=libervis@93-141-116-186.adsl.net.t-com.hr) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 11:49 | |
| *magentar (n=magentar@94.79.143.32) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 11:49 | |
| oiaohm | http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE5474MH20090508 The cat is out bag why Sun was so desprate to sell self to someone. | May 09 11:50 |
| schestowitz | Opera Complains About Vista 7 < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/09/opera-complains-about-vista-7/ > | May 09 11:50 |
| *libervisco has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | May 09 11:50 | |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: WORD or WORLD? | May 09 11:51 |
| oiaohm | Should have been world | May 09 11:51 |
| schestowitz | oil has more impact. energy in general | May 09 11:52 |
| schestowitz | Somrthing odd just happend that never happend to me before | May 09 11:52 |
| schestowitz | In the middle of the session the caps lock led is toggled incorrectly | May 09 11:53 |
| schestowitz | With CAPS enable the light is not lit and vice versa | May 09 11:53 |
| schestowitz | Can this be reset without restarting a session? It's just a visual distraction | May 09 11:53 |
| oiaohm | I know there is a way I just have not done it in ages. | May 09 11:54 |
| *zer0c00l_ (n=zer0c00l@117.199.137.134) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 12:04 | |
| *zer0c00l has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | May 09 12:18 | |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (Windows Shop) Gets Cracked Again < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/09/faa-cracked-again/ > This includes your link. | May 09 12:22 |
| oiaohm | Ok I can find how to correct it on a normal terminal and a strange note about opening openoffice and changing the caplock can fix it but no exactly 100 percent hit this fix it instructions. | May 09 12:23 |
| oiaohm | For X11 schestowitz | May 09 12:23 |
| *Omar87 has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | May 09 12:25 | |
| schestowitz | it;'s no big deal | May 09 12:38 |
| schestowitz | First time it ever happens | May 09 12:38 |
| schestowitz | No idea what triggered it | May 09 12:38 |
| *kentma1 (n=user@86.169.110.158) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 12:39 | |
| *kentma has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | May 09 12:39 | |
| MinceR | geekings | May 09 12:41 |
| *zer0c00l_ is now known as zer0c00l | May 09 12:48 | |
| schestowitz | EPO and the Swiss Department of Justice Want to Make Some Free Software a Crime http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/09/epo-and-swiss-criminalisation/ | May 09 12:50 |
| oiaohm | http://www.infopackets.com/news/business/microsoft/2009/20090506_french_national_police_dump_windows_for_linux.htm I guess you have seen this already schestowitz | May 09 13:03 |
| schestowitz | yES | May 09 13:17 |
| schestowitz | it was sort of reposted | May 09 13:17 |
| schestowitz | I brought this up some days ago in IRC again :-D | May 09 13:17 |
| schestowitz | it's a very good case study | May 09 13:17 |
| *zer0c00l has quit ("Leaving") | May 09 13:27 | |
| *Omar87 (n=omar@94.249.12.190) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 13:50 | |
| Omar87 | Hi there? | May 09 13:52 |
| schestowitz | Hey Omar87 | May 09 13:54 |
| Omar87 | Hey guys, check this out: http://www.fluther.com/disc/43955/is-microsoft-dropping-the-ball-on-operating-systems/#quip581076 | May 09 14:00 |
| Omar87 | And check the last two comments (last one is mine). | May 09 14:01 |
| schestowitz | It's true. | May 09 14:02 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: What is? | May 09 14:05 |
| oiaohm | That MS dropped the ball on operating systems Omar87 | May 09 14:27 |
| Omar87 | oiaohm: Yeah. | May 09 14:27 |
| oiaohm | http://www.penguinpetes.com/Doomed_to_Obscurity/index.php?strip=0000032.jpg One of my most used comic strips. | May 09 14:29 |
| schestowitz | did microsoft ever have balls to begin with? | May 09 14:34 |
| schestowitz | i didn't know that people even read his comic much | May 09 14:34 |
| schestowitz | I read it for a while | May 09 14:34 |
| oiaohm | I do up training documents I sometimes need warped examples. | May 09 14:39 |
| oiaohm | Its suits perfectly on some topics. | May 09 14:40 |
| oiaohm | Microsoft got the ball with Windows 95 | May 09 14:40 |
| oiaohm | Stumbled with it with Windows 98 | May 09 14:40 |
| oiaohm | Recovered with Windows 98se. Went ass over with windows ME and minor Stuble with 2000 | May 09 14:41 |
| oiaohm | Recovered again with XP. But since then its been down hill. | May 09 14:41 |
| schestowitz | For longer | May 09 14:49 |
| schestowitz | Remember separation | May 09 14:49 |
| schestowitz | MS gave lots of time for the competition to catch up | May 09 14:49 |
| oiaohm | So true | May 09 14:49 |
| schestowitz | 95-98(3 yrs)-2000(2 yrs)-2001/XP(1-2 yrs) | May 09 14:50 |
| schestowitz | Mac OS X rebuilt | May 09 14:50 |
| schestowitz | With Mach | May 09 14:50 |
| schestowitz | Even some MS fans now prefer it. Pirillo, Scoble... | May 09 14:50 |
| schestowitz | Did you know that the architect of Windows 95 switched to a Mac? | May 09 14:51 |
| oiaohm | Linux development has not been what you call fast. | May 09 14:51 |
| oiaohm | Constant but not fast. | May 09 14:51 |
| MinceR | they dare call themselves "architects"? | May 09 14:55 |
| MinceR | i think some enraged architects should lynch them for that. | May 09 14:55 |
| oiaohm | There are some highly suspect real world architects out there as well MinceR | May 09 14:56 |
| oiaohm | There have been some good software architects. But the bad have out numbered the good. | May 09 14:57 |
| *twitter (i=willhill@97-113-237-51.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 14:58 | |
| MinceR | yes there have, but none of them have worked on windows 95 | May 09 15:01 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | May 09 15:04 | |
| schestowitz | "For some reason, this web site renders significantly different in Firefox 3.x on Windows than it does with the same version on Linux. On Linux, the menu is hosed and pretty much broken. I didn't realize that happened. I thought the rendering engine was the same, regardless. Just freaking wonderful." http://slashdot.org/~chill/journal/229525?art_pos=19 | May 09 15:06 |
| schestowitz | screwing lightbulbs on win95 | May 09 15:07 |
| *PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | May 09 15:08 | |
| schestowitz | "What we are trying to do is use our server control to do new protocols and lock out Sun and Oracle specifically” -- Bill Gates, Microsoft | May 09 15:08 |
| schestowitz | No exhibit. Maybe we can find it in the Comes pool too | May 09 15:08 |
| *magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection) | May 09 15:08 | |
| schestowitz | "Interesting bit about how Microsoft 'supports' cross platform, until the achieve lock-in, and then it disappears..." | May 09 15:09 |
| schestowitz | "Microsoft then took the next step in its standard “embrace, extend, extinguish” playbook and extended the Windows API without copying its changes to the WISE program. This meant that developers could no longer smoothly port applications to UNIX and Macintosh" | May 09 15:09 |
| schestowitz | Reader says: "Interesting bit about how Microsoft 'supports' cross platform, until the achieve lock-in, and then it disappears" | May 09 15:10 |
| *PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 15:12 | |
| _bgtr4 | so according to this reader: m$ will abandon mono at some point? | May 09 15:36 |
| _bgtr4 | while still patenting c# parts | May 09 15:36 |
| _bgtr4 | as well as some mono parts | May 09 15:37 |
| schestowitz | Maureen O’Gara is Again Spinning SCO’s Defeat < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/09/spinning-sco-defeat/ > | May 09 15:40 |
| schestowitz | _bgtr4: but MS never supported Monio | May 09 15:41 |
| schestowitz | It just allowed it to live | May 09 15:41 |
| _bgtr4 | it just made everything possible to make it live | May 09 15:45 |
| _bgtr4 | not just allowed | May 09 15:45 |
| schestowitz | G2G | May 09 15:46 |
| *_bgtr4 is now known as bgrt4 | May 09 15:52 | |
| *mib_ros6x6 (i=183cbc5f@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8f12a01a943c5f76) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 16:04 | |
| I don't think there is any computer language that M$ has consistently supported. | May 09 16:14 | |
| They have "extended" them all and broken their extensions. | May 09 16:15 | |
| C, Fortran, Java and so on and so forth. | May 09 16:15 | |
| let's not forget the ever popular VB | May 09 16:15 | |
| ha ha | May 09 16:15 | |
| *silentivm (n=renan@189.58.199.177.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 16:17 | |
| Jamie Candale's case pretty much sums it all up for me. http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/173703 | May 09 16:18 | |
| He took M$'s no cost compiler and made it into something better than M$'s "pro" version. | May 09 16:19 | |
| For this he was made MVP then sued and forced to remove his plugins. | May 09 16:19 | |
| At the time, I noted "The goal of non free software is to keep users helpless and divided, so they are not allowed to really help themselves or their neighbors." This is the way all M$ language "support" will go. | May 09 16:21 | |
| To paraphrase the SLOG.DOC, M$ employees are not working for the customer or the tech, they are working for M$ and will consistently screw the other two. | May 09 16:22 | |
| *mib_ros6x6 has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | May 09 16:30 | |
| *mib_x2emvj (i=183cbc5f@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d7e9c37118972850) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 16:31 | |
| *zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@117.199.137.134) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 16:47 | |
| bgrt4 | that's the purpose of crap-market, twitter | May 09 17:13 |
| bgrt4 | people buy crap and they actually have nothing to buy else | May 09 17:13 |
| I'm not sure what you mean. | May 09 17:13 | |
| bgrt4 | the competition goes between companies where they sell crappier crap for more money and pay less when it gets returned | May 09 17:14 |
| bgrt4 | twitter, the market entered quite a new era | May 09 17:14 |
| bgrt4 | where quality means nothing | May 09 17:14 |
| quality means a lot to me, which is why I use free software | May 09 17:15 | |
| bgrt4 | it's something that's hard to encrap :) | May 09 17:15 |
| Yes, I think M$ will run out of money before they can sabotage free software. | May 09 17:16 | |
| schestowitz | twitter: yes, glad you found the MVP example | May 09 17:52 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft doesn't like its products improved 'too' much by volunteers | May 09 17:52 |
| schestowitz | They must stay crippled | May 09 17:52 |
| it's really a good example of how they do things | May 09 17:53 | |
| what you do on "their" platform is inferior by design. | May 09 17:53 | |
| if you overcome their design limitations, they bring out the lawyers | May 09 17:53 | |
| and lie about you | May 09 17:54 | |
| some reward | May 09 17:54 | |
| *neonfloor (n=neon@rdsl-0393.tor.pathcom.com) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 18:07 | |
| *zer0c00l has quit ("sleeping") | May 09 18:09 | |
| schestowitz | Microsoft says EU may boost Google dominance: report < http://uk.reuters.com/article/technologyNewsMolt/idUKTRE5480WV20090509?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0 > | May 09 18:11 |
| schestowitz | Any response to the hypocrisy of Microsoft? http://uk.reuters.com/article/technologyNewsMolt/idUKTRE5480WV20090509?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0 | May 09 18:11 |
| *Omar87 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | May 09 18:15 | |
| schestowitz | Google to Advertise Chrome on TV http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/05/08/google-to-advertise-chrome-on-tv | May 09 18:19 |
| schestowitz | MOZILLA CAN'T AFFORD THAT | May 09 18:21 |
| schestowitz | http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/08/obama-administration-abstinence-bristol-palin Obama to scrap funding for abstinence-only programs | May 09 18:22 |
| *Omar87 (n=omar@94.249.12.190) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 18:36 | |
| Omar87 | Hi there. | May 09 18:36 |
| schestowitz | trmanco is in google news | May 09 18:40 |
| schestowitz | Sun: 'We may have violated bribery laws' http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/08/sun_bribery/ | May 09 18:45 |
| schestowitz | LIKE MS | May 09 18:45 |
| schestowitz | IIRC IBM did this in Korea | May 09 18:46 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft does it everywhere | May 09 18:46 |
| *Carl_Rover2k12 (n=whois@ool-45732edc.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 18:47 | |
| schestowitz | Someone copied our article... Who Covers Mono Again? Microsoft. < http://www.ozelwebtasarim.com/index.php/web-haberleri/8747-who-covers-mono-again-microsoft > | May 09 18:47 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | you should message the administrator or author of that website and ask if they can post a hyperlink to the original | May 09 18:50 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | actually it looks like someone responded by posting a link to the original | May 09 18:51 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | its crap like this that makes people have less faith in non-AP reporting | May 09 18:51 |
| *mib_v0q2aj (i=3b5c9d02@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e1b0d13ab2617bec) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 18:53 | |
| schestowitz | ap.. heh.. | May 09 18:53 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: or Reuters.. but mostly AP | May 09 18:54 |
| schestowitz | I don't like either one | May 09 18:54 |
| schestowitz | Reuters for many reasons | May 09 18:54 |
| schestowitz | Starting from bullying of EndNote exporter to Linus-hostile article and copyright greed | May 09 18:55 |
| schestowitz | But nothing bears Associated Gangsters ( that's what I call them) | May 09 18:55 |
| schestowitz | *beats | May 09 18:55 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: yea, they do a better job of telling misinformation through knee jerk tabloid reporting that gets on the front page or in the headlines, but then apologies and corrects months later in a tiny link on their website | May 09 18:56 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | thats if they ever thoroughly fact check it | May 09 18:56 |
| schestowitz | SE: Municipalities ask software vendors to use open standards < http://www.osor.eu/news/se-municipalities-ask-software-vendors-to-use-open-standards > | May 09 18:58 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: wow, those munis are a ton more knowedgable then the racketeers which currently inhabit all the big positions in my town | May 09 18:59 |
| schestowitz | Check with whom? :-) | May 09 18:59 |
| schestowitz | That Microsoft controls "95% of desktops"? | May 09 18:59 |
| schestowitz | Source: Microsoft | May 09 18:59 |
| schestowitz | Sun: 'We may have violated bribery laws' http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/08/sun_bribery/ | May 09 19:00 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: if you mean by jounalistic fact checking, that is done through a peer review of other journals who go back to the source and through interviews and investigation gather if the article initially reported holds any fac | May 09 19:00 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | fact | May 09 19:00 |
| schestowitz | http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE5474MH20090508 | May 09 19:00 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: I don't know what to trust anymore | May 09 19:01 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: yea, yet M$ gets away with bribing Indian officials to stick their OS on many workstations that run the government | May 09 19:01 |
| schestowitz | Books may be as inaccurate as the Internet though | May 09 19:01 |
| schestowitz | People love to blame Wikipedia and stuff | May 09 19:01 |
| schestowitz | Like that French musician most recently | May 09 19:01 |
| schestowitz | I think they need a scapegoat and attack in the press | May 09 19:01 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: also many companies do bribing abroad, it has almost become the defacto of business in Asian and African nations. | May 09 19:01 |
| schestowitz | The likes of AP need to get people scared of Wikipedi | May 09 19:02 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: can you link me an article of Wiki fear mongering? | May 09 19:02 |
| schestowitz | Well, no transparency | May 09 19:02 |
| schestowitz | COmpanies and multinationals are tyrannies by definition | May 09 19:02 |
| there are dozens of wikipedia smear jobs | May 09 19:02 | |
| schestowitz | There is no regulation inside at all | May 09 19:02 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: I thought they would be working Wikileaks over more | May 09 19:03 |
| schestowitz | Craigslist too | May 09 19:03 |
| schestowitz | They complained | May 09 19:03 |
| schestowitz | The papers HATE Cragslist | May 09 19:03 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: I mean one of Wikileak's lawyers was killed in a mafia style hit | May 09 19:03 |
| schestowitz | It takes their life supply (classified) | May 09 19:03 |
| schestowitz | So they report lots of negative things about it... most recently prostitution | May 09 19:03 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: they hate all of the internet because by technical definition it is beyond their regulatory jurisdiction or venue | May 09 19:04 |
| schestowitz | Really? | May 09 19:04 |
| schestowitz | Wikileaks lawyer? | May 09 19:04 |
| schestowitz | Any link for that? | May 09 19:04 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | hold on | May 09 19:04 |
| schestowitz | Wow | May 09 19:04 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: here it is: http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Kenyan_assassinations:_slain_human_rights_lawyer_Oscar_Kamau_Kingara_letter_to_the_International_Criminal_Court%2C_1_Jan_2009 | May 09 19:05 |
| schestowitz | They were raised before and Barclay's too was furious, Baer likewise... they are good at exposing truth | May 09 19:05 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: one of the articles states he use to work with Wikileaks on certain cases | May 09 19:05 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: Kenya.. | May 09 19:05 |
| schestowitz | Not that it makes it OK | May 09 19:05 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: well, he is a human rights lawyer, and what better way then some no-faced person to bribe the clown gangs there to kill him | May 09 19:06 |
| schestowitz | But wait... | May 09 19:06 |
| schestowitz | "<Carl_Rover2k12> twitter: I mean one of Wikileak's lawyers was killed in a mafia style hit" | May 09 19:06 |
| schestowitz | Wait a second.. | May 09 19:06 |
| schestowitz | I thought you mean the lawyer representing them.. | May 09 19:06 |
| schestowitz | I see now | May 09 19:06 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: just realised wrong link: http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Murder_in_Nairobi:_Wikileaks_related_human_rights_lawyers_assassinated | May 09 19:07 |
| schestowitz | Oh | May 09 19:07 |
| schestowitz | OK, I'm catching up | May 09 19:07 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | still both were human rights attournies | May 09 19:07 |
| schestowitz | Sounds contradictory | May 09 19:08 |
| yikes | May 09 19:08 | |
| schestowitz | Lawyer... human rights... never mind | May 09 19:08 |
| not all lawyers are scum. | May 09 19:08 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: well there are many attornies who persue pro bono causes | May 09 19:08 |
| just the ones that sell themselves out to scum | May 09 19:08 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: don't lob patent lawyers in the same boat as everyone else | May 09 19:08 |
| books are every bit as inaccurate as the web. | May 09 19:11 | |
| accuracy is not a function of media, it's a function of research | May 09 19:11 | |
| and practice | May 09 19:11 | |
| schestowitz | The good, the bad and the Vista. < http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/05/08/the-good-the-bad-and-the-vista/ > | May 09 19:11 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-99-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 19:12 | |
| _Hicham_ | Hi All! | May 09 19:12 |
| not much about Vista in that link. Just a false perception that what's bad for M$ is bad for everyone. | May 09 19:15 | |
| M$'s failure is only bad for M$ and people who invested in monopoly and greed. | May 09 19:16 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: books have a tendancy to be more accurate though because there is not time constraint, as well as a good timely revision | May 09 19:16 |
| everyone is under time pressure and books can not be revised as quickly as electronic publication. | May 09 19:17 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: that is why there is fact checking | May 09 19:17 |
| books have a tendency to not be written and once written to not be published. | May 09 19:18 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: sure there are many books in which the author uses their own hunch more then research, but usually those don't stick around in the front of bookstores for long unless its in the clearance bin | May 09 19:18 |
| truth comes from everyone being able to contribute, books are limiting in a way that's detrimental to that conversation. | May 09 19:18 | |
| bookstores are filled with drek just like the web is | May 09 19:19 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: but for a well researched book about economics, sociology and ect. The author quotes and sources different opinions including ones that they personally interviewed | May 09 19:19 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: I would tend to think internet articles can learn a thing or two from boooks | May 09 19:19 |
| the same author is better off just publishing the same material on the web and many now do. | May 09 19:19 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: only bookstores like Borders and Barnes and Noble which focus more on selling then contributing to learning | May 09 19:20 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: a public library is a very different place | May 09 19:20 |
| the only difference is that the web version is easier to find, index and reference | May 09 19:20 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: but that easier capability tends to make some authors lazy since they feel for any inaccuracies, they can leave it to others to pick up on | May 09 19:20 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: just look at blogs like Engadget and Gizmodo | May 09 19:21 |
| public libraries have a hard time offering electronic publications thanks to paper publishers, everyone loses. | May 09 19:21 | |
| like I said, truth and accuracy are not dependent on publication method, they depend on the author. | May 09 19:21 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: no they don't, they have the computer labs and printers connected to the internet, what other tools are needed. Libraries are there to contribute to the paper medium, whether it be books, magazines or newspaper archives | May 09 19:21 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: how many websites do a good job archiving their information from 10-20 years back? | May 09 19:22 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: Yahoo just pulled the plug on Geocities without giving anyone a chance to archive all of it | May 09 19:22 |
| it is not up to websites to do that, it is up to librarians | May 09 19:22 | |
| Google and the internet archive do a good job | May 09 19:23 | |
| publishers usually don't | May 09 19:23 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: how so, libraries just provide the medium to look at information, its up to the person's discretion on what to look up | May 09 19:23 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: publishers don't because there is already a slew of public libraries and the Library of Congress in the US that does | May 09 19:23 |
| libraries index their collections ... or should | May 09 19:24 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: the only website which has anywhere close to good indexing is archive.org | May 09 19:24 |
| they should also make indexed duplicates of electronic publications of interest, like the internet archive does | May 09 19:24 | |
| the internet archive is a library | May 09 19:24 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: why if the internet services already do that? | May 09 19:24 |
| as you pointed out, they often dont' | May 09 19:25 | |
| *mib_v0q2aj has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | May 09 19:25 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: Libraries are already short enough on funds, they can't afford large databases | May 09 19:25 |
| or they can't afford paper | May 09 19:25 | |
| or to pay greedy journal publishers | May 09 19:25 | |
| and other parasites | May 09 19:25 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: why waste so much paper printing out internet articles when someone can walk go onto a computer connected to a printer and do it themselves? | May 09 19:25 |
| who's talking about printing? | May 09 19:26 | |
| databases are cheaper than paper | May 09 19:26 | |
| look to the internet archive as a proper example | May 09 19:26 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: Public Libraries don't have to pay publishers, there are federal funds that contribute a little bit of royalties but it is mostly done for the public good | May 09 19:26 |
| LOL. Journals are very expensive. | May 09 19:27 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: yea, but good luck trying to scan in every book in a library and index it properly only to have problems with the resolution or format | May 09 19:27 |
| You and I pay the price one way or another. | May 09 19:27 | |
| Google and others are busy scanning books. | May 09 19:27 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: yea and sometimes they are distorted because the book is in a non-standard size format | May 09 19:27 |
| In the mean time, there's no reason to publish on paper anymore. This avoids the problem for the future | May 09 19:27 | |
| everything is created electronically. | May 09 19:28 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: or they can only have parts of the book because publishers state they can't because of royalty reasons | May 09 19:28 |
| the simple solution is to ignore the parasites and publish yourself | May 09 19:28 | |
| and we are back to square one. | May 09 19:29 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: in short Google is a private corporation, they would have to pay a hefty sum to put all the books online, Public Libraries are government run for the public good so they have regulations protecting them from being extorted. But the funding they get is insufficient for electronically archiving and why would they if they conflict with companies like Google? | May 09 19:29 |
| the root of your problems are copyright law | May 09 19:29 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: well it depends, there are many smaller publishers that only care about you paying them a lump sum to produce X amount of books | May 09 19:29 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: if an author expects to have movie contracts and ect they go to the conglomerates | May 09 19:30 |
| I'm not interested in those authors | May 09 19:30 | |
| are you? | May 09 19:30 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: no, but that is our choice. Who is to argue about their's | May 09 19:30 |
| I won't. but I won't provide tax money to support them either. let them rot with paper publishers | May 09 19:31 | |
| truth and accuracy will not be harmed | May 09 19:31 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: believe it or not copyrighted works can co-exist with public ones. I just don't like how the copyrighters tend to lash out against the public if they start to compete with their earnings, they should have thought of that before publishing | May 09 19:32 |
| a better public good would allow anyone to scan and share journals and other printed material | May 09 19:32 | |
| truth comes from knowledge | May 09 19:32 | |
| publishers are in the way of that | May 09 19:32 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: many Public Libraries are already kind enough to scan and fax you newspaper archived slides if you ask | May 09 19:32 |
| they don't deserve public support | May 09 19:32 | |
| public libraries should be able to share their collections on line | May 09 19:33 | |
| that's something worth spending | May 09 19:33 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: Public Libraries are noble instutions that shouldn't be blamed because they rely on a system that has in late become further currupt in the persuit of extracting private earnings | May 09 19:33 |
| I have not blamed them | May 09 19:33 | |
| most librarians understand their mission | May 09 19:34 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: however, having public libraries doing what you described would be a conflict of interest to certain private companies, namely Google | May 09 19:34 |
| tough for Google | May 09 19:34 | |
| better to have the public interest served by eliminating copyright | May 09 19:34 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: sadly Public Libraries may get closed as the Federal Government sees that private companies are already gathering up information and they can extract earnings from them well devesting institutions which are only a loss | May 09 19:35 |
| Google is smart enough to earn money anyway. | May 09 19:35 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: trademarks and copyright are also what protects Google's IPs | May 09 19:35 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: it would be the equivalent to biting the hand that feeds you | May 09 19:36 |
| don't use that term, it's wrong and confusing. | May 09 19:36 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: how so? Google gets most of their revenue from advertisers and shareholders who have the interest that Google's IPs remain strongly their's | May 09 19:37 |
| IP is bullshit. | May 09 19:37 | |
| please explain what you are trying to say | May 09 19:37 | |
| and what that has with me being able to share journal articles and other knowledge with my peers | May 09 19:38 | |
| I think that you are trying to tell me that restricting people's ability to share knowledge is in the public interest. I strongly disagree. | May 09 19:40 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: trying to lump general peer sharing with IPs is overkill | May 09 19:42 |
| *DaemonFC (n=DaemonFC@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 19:42 | |
| What is IP? | May 09 19:43 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: Intelectual Property covers a wide range of ideas, art and publications. | May 09 19:43 |
| restrictions on peer sharing is what this is all about | May 09 19:43 | |
| IP is a propaganda term designed to confuse issues. Please talk about one thing at a time. | May 09 19:43 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: no IPs protect certain indivisuals from having their ideas which can help them earn a living from being stole or exploited | May 09 19:43 |
| please be specific | May 09 19:44 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: you are the one lumping the problem of jounalists not being able to freely peer review with IPs. | May 09 19:44 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: if journalists wanted to do that more they wouldn't be earning their living on AP and Reuters | May 09 19:44 |
| _Hicham_ | they think that if they close piratepay, they will be done | May 09 19:44 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: its all a matter of clear choice | May 09 19:45 |
| _Hicham_ | they are very wrong | May 09 19:45 |
| you are not being clear at all Rover | May 09 19:45 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | _Hicham_: what the record industry involved in the MAFIAA is propagating is a corrupt and imoral use of copyright, which is in fact clear extortion of artists | May 09 19:45 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, where? | May 09 19:45 |
| trmanco | omg | May 09 19:46 |
| trmanco | did I really make it :-P | May 09 19:46 |
| copyright, as it is, is rather corrupt and immoral | May 09 19:46 | |
| we would all be better off without it | May 09 19:46 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: IPs offer a path of legal persuit for those that wish to use it, if they want to make it more open they can at the expense of having next to no legal protection in today's court system. | May 09 19:46 |
| I don't see copyright law protecting authors at all | May 09 19:47 | |
| I see people having their works taken down and used all the time | May 09 19:47 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: you maybe better off without it, but not the artists. And no I am not saying what the MAFIAA tries to convince you what a copyright is, is in fact the correct term. | May 09 19:47 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: which works? | May 09 19:48 |
| bbl | May 09 19:48 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: I hate this absolute or nothing approach most people feel it is the solution | May 09 19:49 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: it only creates this whole Red v Blue situation that ends up making it a never ending struggle, which is exactly what certain powerful lobbies want | May 09 19:49 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: what better way to destroy open source then to issolate it from the rest of legal society through their own user's choices | May 09 19:50 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, where am I on googly news? | May 09 19:51 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: < http://www.ozelwebtasarim.com/index.php/web-haberleri/8747-who-covers-mono-again-microsoft > | May 09 19:52 |
| schestowitz | This scraper gets picked by Google. Blech | May 09 19:53 |
| schestowitz | Justsystems Participates in ODF Alliance as Founding Member;Actively Contributing to Dissemination of a Global Standard, XML For < http://www.pressreleasepoint.com/justsystems-participates-odf-alliance-founding-memberactively-contributing-dissemination-global-stan > | May 09 19:53 |
| schestowitz | I was on the phone for like an hour, so could respond | May 09 19:53 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: can you elaborate? | May 09 19:54 |
| schestowitz | Are you suggesting that they isolate rather than absorb? | May 09 19:54 |
| schestowitz | What happens when many of them are ditched by a Better Way. Surely they have the means to attack it with law, lawyers, abuse and AstroTurfers (or corrupt judges), but still.... | May 09 19:55 |
| schestowitz | In Kindle they prevent reading of books | May 09 19:55 |
| schestowitz | In Finland they try to illegalise sharing of physical books | May 09 19:55 |
| trmanco | ah that | May 09 19:57 |
| trmanco | :| | May 09 19:57 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: well they make open source this movement that has to be completely adverse to all intellectual property, when in fact certain open source developers can take advantage of it to protect their work. Its why GNU/GPL was originally founded. | May 09 19:57 |
| schestowitz | Gary and marbux still try to hurt ODF now: http://openstack.blogspot.com/2009/05/openweb-05092009-pm.html | May 09 19:57 |
| schestowitz | All kinds of nuisance | May 09 19:57 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: the problem with Amazon and the Kindle comes from the fact that they managed to sell their books for such low prices by bending over for the publishers who most of the time like the large record labors, don't really look out for the authors. | May 09 19:57 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: yes, that's the likes of ORLY | May 09 19:58 |
| schestowitz | The Microsofters too | May 09 19:58 |
| schestowitz | Some of whom are in ORLY | May 09 19:58 |
| schestowitz | Taming and straining | May 09 19:58 |
| schestowitz | It's true that the problem is broader | May 09 19:58 |
| schestowitz | We should also look out to initiator of Novell/MS-like deals | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | This includes IBM | May 09 19:59 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: but don't forget that it is also alienating, by saying to the likes of look at these open source whackos and the only ones which are good are the ones which colaborate with the closed ones | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | Here's something I got last night. | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | ======= | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | Wow! What a learned reply! Not. | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | Roy, methinks you need to pry your head out of IBM's ass long enough | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | to see where Big Blue is leading you. IBM's path leads to a place that | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | is very ugly for FOSS and for a Free Information Infrastructure. | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | You can't build a connected world without connectivity. The enemy is | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | all those like Rob and the Softies who make lame excuses for delaying | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | the repair of the connectivity bugs in so-called "open standards" that | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | are in fact standards in name only, regardless of which big vendor | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | writes their particular paychecks. Not to mention one hell of a lot of | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | people who fell for the "Microsoft Pure Evil / IBM Pure as the Driven | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | Snow" propaganda theme. | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | Those factors and the utter myth of ODF interoperability propaganda | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | spread by the IBM camp throughout the OOXML fiasco are the major | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | barriers to fixing the ODF specification's connectivity bugs. They are | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | the smokescreen that IBM laid dowjn to block those proverbial thousand | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | eyes from making the ODF specification's connectivity bugs shallow. | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | It ain't enough to set the monopoly ablaze, Roy. Been there; done | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | that. One need also be concerned about what arises from the monopoly's | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | ashes. Been there and done that too. The news is not good. | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | IBM tries to kill the reputations of all messengers who dare to submit | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | bug reports on the ODF specification. IBM has never had any other | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | strategy for shielding the ODF specification from debugging. Can't | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | come up with a good response on the technical merits of the bug | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | report? No problem. Smear the guy who made the report. | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | Haven't you noticed that anyone who points out connectivity bugs in | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | the ODF specification always gets smeared by the IBM camp? Sorry to | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | see you've fallen victim to the IBM character assassination tactic. | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | Alex Brown a "standards troll?" Lord, Luvaduck. Those bright lights | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | you're seeing are not the Asteroid Belt, despite the resemblance. | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | They're just your neurological reaction to the pain inflicted by | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | IBM's sphincter around your neck. | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | Warmest personal regards nonetheless. I don't envy your ignor | May 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | ==== | May 09 20:00 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: IBM is one of those | May 09 20:00 |
| schestowitz | Who try to 'bridge' | May 09 20:00 |
| schestowitz | They are very smart about it | May 09 20:00 |
| schestowitz | As in, the way they hide it | May 09 20:00 |
| schestowitz | Acting nice towards Linux and hardly even call it that | May 09 20:00 |
| schestowitz | Series-Z | May 09 20:01 |
| schestowitz | Or whatever | May 09 20:01 |
| schestowitz | But they, unlike MS, don't attack Linux | May 09 20:01 |
| schestowitz | Had OS/2 flourished, then one must wonder if IBM would be like MS | May 09 20:01 |
| schestowitz | In the sense that it would attack rather than harness GNU | May 09 20:01 |
| schestowitz | I am going to do a post about it later | May 09 20:01 |
| schestowitz | Just repeating my pointless requests (pressure) for IBM to kill software patents | May 09 20:02 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: well that is a big what-if considering that IBM went open source to gather more bright talent from universities who were already in the field and take advantage of their work | May 09 20:02 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: maybe they would not have publicized it as much | May 09 20:02 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: it was more of a matter of IBM trying to shake off their suite and tie image which made them loose favor amongst developers and those who use to make the calls within corporations for what systems to buy | May 09 20:03 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: OS/2 Warp failed because it was still assosciated with that old school way of looking at IBM as the colossal mammoth that stood in the way of the little guy with massive closed projects. | May 09 20:05 |
| schestowitz | Would it be OK if I posted something about it. I will also pressure IBM re: software patents in Europe. | May 09 20:05 |
| schestowitz | BN was never a fan of IBM, which endorsed the patent deal/s. | May 09 20:05 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: why are you asking me? are you going to be quoting me. IMO I am not a really realiable or good source | May 09 20:06 |
| schestowitz | Oops | May 09 20:06 |
| schestowitz | I meant as not as a question | May 09 20:06 |
| schestowitz | I meant "it would | May 09 20:06 |
| schestowitz | " | May 09 20:06 |
| back | May 09 20:08 | |
| Rover, every restriction must be justified. Copyright's restrictions were justified by the difficulty of paper publishing. That is gone now and many no longer see the need for restrictions. | May 09 20:09 | |
| the justification, in the US at least, was an enlarged public domain | May 09 20:10 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: but copyright has changed, it is no longer about the exploitation of someone printing your work word for word without permission and selling it, but taking your article word for word to garner credit for it without such | May 09 20:10 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: peer review is great so long as one actually lists those involved and how they contributed | May 09 20:10 |
| schestowitz | It's only justified -- poorly--by the perception that power is a right to be preserved | May 09 20:11 |
| schestowitz | IRS is unconstitutional, some say | May 09 20:11 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: you mean the use of legal power to protect someone's ideas | May 09 20:11 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: nope | May 09 20:11 |
| schestowitz | Restriction on sharing of knowledge | May 09 20:11 |
| schestowitz | Not exactly the same | May 09 20:11 |
| copyright is supposed to "protect" expressions, not ideas | May 09 20:12 | |
| schestowitz | You can get paid for ideas that are shared | May 09 20:12 |
| the restrictions were against paper republishing | May 09 20:12 | |
| those restrictions no longer make sense and are no longer justified | May 09 20:12 | |
| schestowitz | A lot of artistic work is inspired | May 09 20:13 |
| schestowitz | Take for example Shakespeare | May 09 20:13 |
| schestowitz | He took other people's plays | May 09 20:13 |
| schestowitz | he remixed them | May 09 20:13 |
| schestowitz | A lot of religions are the same | May 09 20:13 |
| schestowitz | With similar patterns | May 09 20:13 |
| People will express themselves regardless of restrictions. In fact, more people will express themselves when restrictions are removed. | May 09 20:13 | |
| schestowitz | Like resurrection after 3 days, commandments, Gods of the sun, etc. | May 09 20:13 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: which is why copyright reform should be instituted with preasure to bring more works sooner into public domain | May 09 20:13 |
| schestowitz | Back then you had no copyright | May 09 20:14 |
| schestowitz | "hold it right there, Mr. I will call my lawyer because you stole my mythology" | May 09 20:14 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: or cut the ability for businesses to copyright tiny elements of an expression which don't constitute it or even resemble another if shown on their own | May 09 20:14 |
| for most of recorded history there has been no copyright | May 09 20:14 | |
| irony intended | May 09 20:14 | |
| schestowitz | Even fair use is under threat | May 09 20:14 |
| schestowitz | Yesterday I thought about adding a copyleft icons to all pages in BN | May 09 20:15 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: which meant that we don't have a clear picture of whom has credit for what and artists had to verbally abuse or even phsyically one another to protect their work and clientell | May 09 20:15 |
| schestowitz | I don't know how Shane would feel about it | May 09 20:15 |
| people will continue to tell and publish their stories, they will sing and dance, and they will entertain each other long after copyright is gone | May 09 20:15 | |
| I don't need your abuse, Carl | May 09 20:15 | |
| People know who does what | May 09 20:16 | |
| *balzac (n=balzac@173-45-238-81.slicehost.net) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 20:16 | |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: just realise how much music is ripped off | May 09 20:16 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: que? I am just stating that copyright offers a way to easily protect people's expressions and work from being exploited by employers or offerors | May 09 20:16 |
| schestowitz | See how they use samples and inspirations | May 09 20:16 |
| schestowitz | They know it | May 09 20:16 |
| schestowitz | They know they do it | May 09 20:16 |
| schestowitz | Like Puff Daddy picking some sting | May 09 20:16 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: but that is because some hold the legal means to pay off anyone who objects | May 09 20:16 |
| schestowitz | He can call it "fair use" | May 09 20:16 |
| schestowitz | and play it in a loop | May 09 20:16 |
| what kind of exploitation can there be without copyright | May 09 20:17 | |
| ? | May 09 20:17 | |
| schestowitz | Input output. | May 09 20:17 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: actually many indivisuals are running into problems trying to sell remixes because of the grasp the MAFIAA has on the legal system | May 09 20:17 |
| My employer can "steal" my journal articles all they want. | May 09 20:17 | |
| balzac | people are wrong to think of copyright as essential for artists and content creators | May 09 20:17 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: all the while they squash those who are ignorant of their rights | May 09 20:17 |
| what are they going to do, sell them on the street corner? | May 09 20:17 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | balzac: its not essenstial as much as an option for one to persue for legal action | May 09 20:18 |
| balzac | check out my friend karl fogel's website www.questioncopyright.org | May 09 20:18 |
| that would be nifty, but I doubt they will make much more than noise and my reputation. | May 09 20:18 | |
| schestowitz | balzac: maybe in the old world | May 09 20:18 |
| schestowitz | Now we have the Inetrnet | May 09 20:18 |
| schestowitz | Good luck to Murdoch CHANGING for people to read articles | May 09 20:18 |
| schestowitz | They just go to Google News | May 09 20:18 |
| bgrt4 | yay... internetz!!! | May 09 20:18 |
| schestowitz | And then find sources that happily give it away | May 09 20:18 |
| schestowitz | With adverts or whatever | May 09 20:19 |
| schestowitz | This just shows that a lot gets changed | May 09 20:19 |
| balzac | I'd don't usually like the idea of beating up an old man, but I'd like to push Rupert Murdoch down and take his trophy wife | May 09 20:19 |
| Rover, what legal actions do you have in mind. | May 09 20:19 | |
| ? | May 09 20:19 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: lawsuite, or summons to take down work | May 09 20:20 |
| schestowitz | balzac: don't get all beat up. He can be your vassal | May 09 20:20 |
| balzac, why bother to push Murdoch over? I'm sure you could just charm his wife away.. | May 09 20:20 | |
| schestowitz | Then serve the trophy | May 09 20:20 |
| What do you want to take down? | May 09 20:20 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: and a lawsuite doesn't have to be centered around money, it could also be the verdict of persuing a certain action. Its just courts find it easier to dole out cash | May 09 20:20 |
| Do you think Fox News would do more than laugh at your take down? | May 09 20:20 | |
| They have laughed at others. | May 09 20:21 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: they can laugh but if they realise they did perpetrate a wrong and a judge agrees their legal team has to be summoned regardless | May 09 20:21 |
| They will waste your life savings and life time fighting it. | May 09 20:21 | |
| and they will win. | May 09 20:21 | |
| balzac | I would send him into exile | May 09 20:21 |
| copyright does not server you. | May 09 20:21 | |
| schestowitz | copyright can be a censorship too | May 09 20:22 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: really, if I recall a small company called Psion managed to settle out of court with the big Intel, Dell and ect for millions over their exploitation of their trademark on the word "Netbook" | May 09 20:22 |
| schestowitz | The big media uses it as as such | May 09 20:22 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: there are exceptions | May 09 20:23 |
| schestowitz | I didn't even know they settled | May 09 20:23 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: Apple is not fighting Palm for their use of multi-touch because Palm already has patents of prior use which are nessisary for smartphones | May 09 20:23 |
| I don't think you Psion's resources, Carl | May 09 20:23 | |
| *mib_x2emvj has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | May 09 20:24 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: then I have the right to public counsel, or dare I say even testify myself until I can raise enough funds from sympathetic people or a lawyer looking to earn extra from the verdict | May 09 20:24 |
| MinceR | that didn't stop crApple from using FUD, though | May 09 20:24 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | MinceR: but all it was, FUD | May 09 20:24 |
| and software patents are business methods | May 09 20:24 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: copyrights are only as effective pertaining to how much they are used or notoriety there is sadly. | May 09 20:25 |
| Carl, you don't have a right to public counsel in a copyright case. It's a civil matter. | May 09 20:25 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: imo the system does need to be reformed quite a bit and offer more choice for people to drop out and opt to file their works into a sort of public domain state, but not obolished | May 09 20:25 |
| You seem to be confusing facets of trademark, copyright and criminal law. | May 09 20:26 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: actually, infants or those underage do. But that is aside from the point | May 09 20:26 |
| I'm not sure what you are talking about, but it's not a very good case for the pubic benefits of copyright. | May 09 20:27 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: Copyright is still a more serious matter then any civil suite because the Constitution and current legal guidelines for IPs state as such | May 09 20:27 |
| ? | May 09 20:27 | |
| bbl | May 09 20:28 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Clause | May 09 20:28 |
| *tacone (n=tacone@93-32-186-60.ip34.fastwebnet.it) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 20:29 | |
| tacone | schestowitz: erase contents and latest stories TOCs from the home page | May 09 20:31 |
| tacone | they lik to anchors it's confusing. | May 09 20:31 |
| schestowitz | tacone: where t0o put them? | May 09 20:36 |
| schestowitz | A lot of people don't read it as 'front page' | May 09 20:36 |
| schestowitz | They use RSS | May 09 20:36 |
| tacone | not the sections themselves | May 09 20:37 |
| schestowitz | Front page is Wiki | May 09 20:37 |
| tacone | the table of contents. | May 09 20:37 |
| tacone | they link to an anchor on the same page | May 09 20:37 |
| tacone | redundant and confusing. | May 09 20:37 |
| tacone | the blue background parts. | May 09 20:37 |
| trmanco | Yahoo is promoting IE 8 in user generated email | May 09 20:37 |
| trmanco | forced ad signature | May 09 20:37 |
| tacone | trmanco: that's called advertising. | May 09 20:38 |
| schestowitz | still | May 09 20:38 |
| tacone | uh, "ad", sorry. | May 09 20:38 |
| tacone | I somewhat feel ie8 out of the browsers war. just catching up. | May 09 20:39 |
| tacone | until they're catching up, they can't harm. and they will catch up until developer community doesn't trust ie again. not anytime soon. | May 09 20:39 |
| tacone | right now, Chromium is leading, and the others are just sucking. | May 09 20:40 |
| balzac | Roy, what's up with the wiki being your landing page for BN? | May 09 20:40 |
| trmanco | it doesn't really follow standards | May 09 20:40 |
| balzac | it makes it look like your site hasn't got much going on | May 09 20:41 |
| tacone | trmanco: that's the point. | May 09 20:41 |
| balzac | wikis are academic and stale | May 09 20:41 |
| trmanco | sites made for all firefox show well inf safari and opera, but not in IE 8 | May 09 20:41 |
| trmanco | they still lack standards | May 09 20:41 |
| balzac | Microsoft deliberately boycotts standards | May 09 20:41 |
| tacone | firefox has been loved by webdevs. so even if the boss says IE it's the priority, it's more likely for a site to work on firefox. not only easier, but more likely | May 09 20:42 |
| tacone | webdevs use firefox, they may forgot to test on IE also. the opposite it's unlikely. | May 09 20:42 |
| balzac | as far as Microsoft is concerned, the W3C or ISO is either an impediment or a tool | May 09 20:42 |
| tacone | balzac: they can't play that game anymore on the web | May 09 20:42 |
| balzac | the more developers forget IE, the better | May 09 20:42 |
| tacone | they do, but only on svg. and desperately try to catch up on acid and stuff. | May 09 20:43 |
| balzac | tacone: thank goodness | May 09 20:43 |
| tacone | i'm a webdev. | May 09 20:43 |
| balzac | soon come the day when microsoft is laughed at | May 09 20:43 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: the wiki is for new visitors | May 09 20:44 |
| tacone | i should also say, half of the fortune of firefox among webdevs, thus among normal people | May 09 20:44 |
| tacone | is due to webdeveloper extension and firebug. | May 09 20:44 |
| tacone | safari, chromium, and ie attempts to develop such extensions are laughable and ridicule. | May 09 20:44 |
| trmanco | wow | May 09 20:45 |
| tacone | noone will really test their site on those browser until the browser developers give tools. | May 09 20:45 |
| trmanco | gnote has been working for almost 12 hours and it only hog 6.1MB of ram | May 09 20:45 |
| tacone | firebug especially is incredible. | May 09 20:45 |
| trmanco | I don't remember opening more then 1 note though | May 09 20:45 |
| tacone | gnote has to create a dev team | May 09 20:46 |
| tacone | otherwise is dead. | May 09 20:46 |
| trmanco | just let it spread into the main distros | May 09 20:46 |
| tacone | which distros ?! | May 09 20:46 |
| trmanco | fedora for example | May 09 20:46 |
| tacone | it doesn't even have plugins. | May 09 20:46 |
| trmanco | and ubuntu, debian | May 09 20:46 |
| tacone | fedora is the only one likely to use it. | May 09 20:46 |
| trmanco | tacone, yes it does | May 09 20:46 |
| tacone | ubuntu won't use it unless debian does. | May 09 20:47 |
| tacone | debian is unlilkely to use it until gnome does. | May 09 20:47 |
| trmanco | who says? | May 09 20:47 |
| tacone | so hope gnome does. | May 09 20:47 |
| trmanco | https://edge.launchpad.net/~gnote/+archive/ppa | May 09 20:47 |
| trmanco | gnote has already some ubuntu devs aroung it | May 09 20:47 |
| tacone | trmanco: that's not from ubuntu. | May 09 20:47 |
| trmanco | around* | May 09 20:47 |
| tacone | which devs ? | May 09 20:47 |
| trmanco | 2 | May 09 20:48 |
| tacone | vadi is not a ubuntu dev | May 09 20:48 |
| trmanco | he isn't? | May 09 20:48 |
| tacone | no. | May 09 20:48 |
| schestowitz | personal stories in LT again: Editor's Note: Who Will Remember You? < http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-05-09-005-35-OP-CY > | May 09 20:48 |
| tacone | and some ubuntu devs are mono fans. | May 09 20:48 |
| trmanco | Most active in Ubuntu | May 09 20:48 |
| tacone | sure, but not in ubuntu development. | May 09 20:49 |
| tacone | independent dev. | May 09 20:49 |
| tacone | trmanco: my take is gnome is the hope. | May 09 20:49 |
| tacone | convince gnome, get everyone. | May 09 20:49 |
| trmanco | w00t -> https://edge.launchpad.net/surl | May 09 20:49 |
| tacone | debian is also more likely | May 09 20:50 |
| trmanco | Registered | May 09 20:50 |
| trmanco | 2009-04-13 by | May 09 20:50 |
| tacone | trmanco: ? | May 09 20:50 |
| trmanco | http://github.com/trmanco/surll/commit/a4803830e8b196c0ae0c3e49906125846608255d | May 09 20:50 |
| trmanco | :| | May 09 20:50 |
| tacone | php ? | May 09 20:50 |
| *trmanco checks the code | May 09 20:51 | |
| trmanco | tacone, yeah, but see the name similarities | May 09 20:51 |
| tacone | oh | May 09 20:51 |
| trmanco | and the dates | May 09 20:51 |
| trmanco | initial commit with the date the project surl was registered | May 09 20:51 |
| tacone | kill mr. Radevic and you're done. | May 09 20:51 |
| trmanco | no way | May 09 20:52 |
| trmanco | he is doing it in python :-P | May 09 20:52 |
| trmanco | and btw, he packages gnote for me and others | May 09 20:52 |
| schestowitz | Haha. Why Windows 7 is Microsoft’s next Zune < http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/05/09/why-windows-7-is-microsofts-next-zune/#more-3521 > | May 09 20:53 |
| DaemonFC | I wonder if I could get away with running games in WinFLP in a virtualbox session | May 09 20:53 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | I got to getting going, tell twitter that I apologize for leaving and would be willing to throw down again some time if that user gets back | May 09 20:53 |
| DaemonFC | probably old ones | May 09 20:53 |
| *Carl_Rover2k12 has quit () | May 09 20:54 | |
| trmanco | wtf is winflp? | May 09 20:55 |
| trmanco | windows flipped? | May 09 20:56 |
| DaemonFC | Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs | May 09 20:56 |
| DaemonFC | it's a copy of XP that has been trimmed down to run on old computers | May 09 20:56 |
| trmanco | ah ok | May 09 20:56 |
| DaemonFC | I mean too old for XP | May 09 20:56 |
| trmanco | how old can that be? | May 09 20:56 |
| DaemonFC | it's pretty fast actually | May 09 20:56 |
| trmanco | P1? | May 09 20:56 |
| trmanco | :-p | May 09 20:56 |
| DaemonFC | systems that shipped with Windows 95/98 | May 09 20:56 |
| trmanco | ah... not bad | May 09 20:57 |
| DaemonFC | I've looked it over, and it's pretty much XP with all the important stuff | May 09 21:00 |
| DaemonFC | but yet half the size I can get XP down to with nLite | May 09 21:00 |
| DaemonFC | so clearly there's something nLite can't remove that Microsoft did | May 09 21:00 |
| tacone | http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/8029/1240590991516.png | May 09 21:00 |
| DaemonFC | by default, WinFLP doesn't have any .Net runtime | May 09 21:01 |
| DaemonFC | not even 1.1 | May 09 21:01 |
| trmanco | ah | May 09 21:01 |
| trmanco | see, thats bloat, and even MS knows it | May 09 21:02 |
| DaemonFC | but that can't account for that much of a space drain | May 09 21:02 |
| DaemonFC | cause I even gutted .Net from my nlited XP | May 09 21:02 |
| DaemonFC | the furthest down I could get nLite XP was 2.2 gigs installed | May 09 21:02 |
| DaemonFC | WinFLP is 611 megs to 995 megs | May 09 21:02 |
| DaemonFC | depending on the components you want | May 09 21:02 |
| DaemonFC | Internet Explorer, DirectX, and Media Player are optional, Help and Support Center is optional, even Task Manager and the command line tools are optional | May 09 21:03 |
| DaemonFC | of course if you remove local administrative tools and then need to kill something from the task manager, you're fucked | May 09 21:04 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 09 21:04 |
| DaemonFC | and removing Windows Media Player also guts out DirectX | May 09 21:04 |
| DaemonFC | you can run the DirectX 9 redist and it will install, but it skips various DirectX 8 components that XP should have shipped with | May 09 21:04 |
| DaemonFC | so it's still damaged | May 09 21:04 |
| DaemonFC | so basically if you remove IE, or Media Player then Microsoft will also rip out other unrelated things you may have needed | May 09 21:05 |
| DaemonFC | it also have no Visual Basic runtime, no MS Paint, no Disk Cleanup | May 09 21:06 |
| DaemonFC | but Defrag is still there | May 09 21:06 |
| schestowitz | So does it run Firefox? | May 09 21:06 |
| DaemonFC | yes, it runs prety much anything a full copy of XP can | May 09 21:07 |
| schestowitz | My old win98 laptop hardly movd the thing | May 09 21:07 |
| schestowitz | Firefox 1.0 IIRC | May 09 21:07 |
| DaemonFC | 98 does not have required functionality to run anything past Firefox 2.0.19 | May 09 21:07 |
| DaemonFC | even if you install Unicode, which MS has a redist for | May 09 21:08 |
| DaemonFC | it still doesn't support Cairo | May 09 21:08 |
| DaemonFC | so that basically means it can't run newer copies of VLC, Firefox, etc. | May 09 21:08 |
| schestowitz | Why not a light distro? | May 09 21:10 |
| schestowitz | BTW, I'll hit IBM for its stance on software patents a lot more from now on (done this before many times but gently). Not ODF. That would be counter-productive because we need a format that won't attack FOSS. | May 09 21:10 |
| DaemonFC | if you compile Firefox 3 without SVG support, Windows 98 can run it | May 09 21:11 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 09 21:11 |
| schestowitz | No updats | May 09 21:12 |
| schestowitz | But the same goes for win98 | May 09 21:13 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 98 was the second longest lives version of Windows | May 09 21:14 |
| DaemonFC | XP will be overtaking that this year | May 09 21:14 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 09 21:14 |
| schestowitz | Just let Windows die | May 09 21:17 |
| schestowitz | Don't help it | May 09 21:17 |
| schestowitz | Free software is about about letting a single company make the rules on a platform. This not only dis-empowers users, but it also leads to DRM-ed shops like Android (with bans and stuff), discrimination against rival browsers, Tivoisation that is hostile to modifications, etc. Choice is good. Think cars. | May 09 21:17 |
| DaemonFC | probably not the right analogy | May 09 21:17 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 09 21:17 |
| MinceR | i think a "not" is missing there | May 09 21:17 |
| MinceR | also, there's an extra "about" :> | May 09 21:18 |
| tacone | Ubuntu does 1/3 of google queries windows does in italy. | May 09 21:18 |
| tacone | that means 25% approx share. | May 09 21:18 |
| DaemonFC | Well, Linux is really a problem for Microsoft in third world countries | May 09 21:19 |
| schestowitz | hmmmmmm... are they covering proprietary linux here again? http://ostatic.com/blog/3-free-ways-to-transfer-movies-from-tivo-dvrs | May 09 21:19 |
| DaemonFC | that's why they're dumping free Windows there | May 09 21:19 |
| DaemonFC | or turning a blind eye to illegal copies | May 09 21:20 |
| tacone | lol, italy is not yet a 3rd world country. but we're working on that. | May 09 21:20 |
| DaemonFC | no, I meant like Mexico and China | May 09 21:20 |
| DaemonFC | Russia is about there too | May 09 21:20 |
| tacone | well, that share in italy has to be scaring to them. | May 09 21:20 |
| DaemonFC | the average Russian lives on the equivalent of about $11,000 USD per year | May 09 21:20 |
| DaemonFC | that's below our poverty guidelines | May 09 21:20 |
| tacone | as italy is usually slower to catch up with trends (like firefox) | May 09 21:20 |
| DaemonFC | by quite a bit | May 09 21:20 |
| tacone | that's why italian newspaper advertise windows 7 to linux users | May 09 21:21 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: expenses there are lower too | May 09 21:21 |
| tacone | newspaperS | May 09 21:21 |
| schestowitz | You can't compare wages like that | May 09 21:21 |
| DaemonFC | yes you can | May 09 21:21 |
| DaemonFC | look at Mexico | May 09 21:21 |
| DaemonFC | if I won the lottery it would probably last me ten times longer there | May 09 21:21 |
| DaemonFC | doesn't mean I would go there | May 09 21:22 |
| *DaemonFC has been there, it was not a place he'll return willingly | May 09 21:22 | |
| DaemonFC | like, they have Walmart there, but the average Mexican is so poor, that a bottle of decent liquor costs more than a weeks pay | May 09 21:23 |
| DaemonFC | so they just have cards in the liquor aisle | May 09 21:23 |
| DaemonFC | with pictures of the bottle | May 09 21:23 |
| schestowitz | Linux Defenders call for prior art to counter MS patents < http://webwereld.nl/internationaal-nieuws/57635/linux-defenders-call-for-prior-art-to-counter-ms-patents.html > | May 09 21:23 |
| DaemonFC | and the liquor is locked up in a security room | May 09 21:23 |
| DaemonFC | think 115 degrees in the shade | May 09 21:24 |
| DaemonFC | the sweat evaporates to fast, you're sweating and dry | May 09 21:24 |
| DaemonFC | so you have to drink lots of water even if you aren't sweating | May 09 21:24 |
| DaemonFC | cause you are and you just don't realize it | May 09 21:24 |
| DaemonFC | then there are police checkpoints | May 09 21:25 |
| DaemonFC | drug gangs pay the Mexican police to set up check points | May 09 21:25 |
| DaemonFC | to keep other gangs smugglers out | May 09 21:25 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 09 21:25 |
| schestowitz | Dave Krappos as Next PTO Director? < http://www.patentlyo.com/patent/2009/05/dave-kappos-as-next-pto-director.html > IBM. What is this krap? | May 09 21:25 |
| _Hicham_ | u seem to be an old smuggler :) | May 09 21:25 |
| DaemonFC | so they really don't care what you have in your car as long as it's not a rival gangs drugs | May 09 21:25 |
| DaemonFC | nah, the first thing the army does when they take over a town is disarm the police so they don't get shot in the back | May 09 21:26 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 09 21:26 |
| *DavidGerard (n=Diva_@wikimedia/DavidGerard) has joined #boycottnovell | May 09 21:33 | |
| DavidGerard | good morning cruel world | May 09 21:34 |
| DavidGerard | hey roy, that battery recall checking function | May 09 21:34 |
| DavidGerard | it's in the freedesktop.org bits | May 09 21:34 |
| DavidGerard | and is used by gnome power manager | May 09 21:34 |
| DavidGerard | it was started three years ago: http://hughsient.livejournal.com/4240.html | May 09 21:34 |
| DavidGerard | so it's not just a reason to get ubuntu, but any gnome distro | May 09 21:35 |
| DavidGerard | dunno if kde does the same, but it's fd.o (hal) so it could | May 09 21:35 |
| DavidGerard | if only windows and macos x were that helpful | May 09 21:35 |
| DavidGerard | (apple were v good with the recall battery we had, and it was nice to replace a nearly clapped-out battery with a completely new one :-D ) | May 09 21:36 |
| schestowitz | Hey | May 09 21:40 |
| schestowitz | Sorry, I missed you coming in | May 09 21:40 |
| schestowitz | Got distracted by patent junk | May 09 21:40 |
| DavidGerard | :-) | May 09 21:40 |
| DavidGerard | i'm just remarkably bored | May 09 21:40 |
| DavidGerard | i never go on irc otherwise | May 09 21:40 |
| schestowitz | DavidGerard: yes, Ubuntu gets credit for many GNOME things | May 09 21:40 |
| schestowitz | Wow! Look. Ubuntu themes | May 09 21:40 |
| DavidGerard | well, in this case it was just that the guy discovered it on ubuntu | May 09 21:40 |
| schestowitz | Mamma mia. Ubuntu can detect my monitor | May 09 21:40 |
| DavidGerard | i posted to his blog post linking the origin blog post | May 09 21:41 |
| DavidGerard | and i've added the original link to my lj | May 09 21:41 |
| schestowitz | The Ubuntu remote desktop thingie... (SSH / BSD) | May 09 21:41 |
| DavidGerard | you should still use both links in your daily links list ;-) it's a GREAT piece of free software advocacy | May 09 21:41 |
| schestowitz | DavidGerard: I wish I was ever bored | May 09 21:41 |
| DavidGerard | hah | May 09 21:41 |
| schestowitz | I only get bored while on vacations | May 09 21:41 |
| DavidGerard | well, more exhaustion | May 09 21:42 |
| schestowitz | No Internet !!11 | May 09 21:42 |
| DavidGerard | the toddler's been particularly active today | May 09 21:42 |
| schestowitz | I always have things I want to read and have no time to | May 09 21:42 |
| DavidGerard | i just got to entertain her for an hour while her mother was fixing a broken tibook | May 09 21:42 |
| schestowitz | Which "both links"? | May 09 21:42 |
| DavidGerard | the guy who went "whoa, ubuntu" and the original post by the guy writing the feature | May 09 21:43 |
| DavidGerard | i wonder if kde uses the data | May 09 21:43 |
| schestowitz | DavidGerard: but it's already in the links | May 09 21:43 |
| schestowitz | Isn't this where you found it? | May 09 21:43 |
| DavidGerard | is it? | May 09 21:43 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 09 21:43 |
| DavidGerard | no, i saw it in your twitter feed :-) | May 09 21:43 |
| schestowitz | Last night's | May 09 21:43 |
| DavidGerard | ah ok :-) | May 09 21:43 |
| schestowitz | I miss very little :-) | May 09 21:43 |
| *DavidGerard looks again | May 09 21:43 | |
| schestowitz | I expanded to MAFIAA stuff too as you can prolly tell | May 09 21:44 |
| schestowitz | Next months I'll do more | May 09 21:44 |
| DavidGerard | yes | May 09 21:44 |
| schestowitz | Shift it up a gear | May 09 21:44 |
| schestowitz | I saw your comments in GL yesterday | May 09 21:44 |
| DavidGerard | oh, did you see this one? http://torrentfreak.com/new-anti-piracy-lawyers-chase-uk-file-sharers-090508/ | May 09 21:44 |
| schestowitz | Running "out of breath" | May 09 21:44 |
| schestowitz | "off air" | May 09 21:44 |
| schestowitz | It wasn't a banwidth issue but a server load issue | May 09 21:44 |
| schestowitz | We have 500gb.month quota | May 09 21:45 |
| DavidGerard | new trolling lawyers | May 09 21:45 |
| DavidGerard | in the uk | May 09 21:45 |
| schestowitz | Is this the x10 penalty? | May 09 21:45 |
| DavidGerard | chasing filesharers with threats for a few hundred quid | May 09 21:45 |
| DavidGerard | and backing down as soon as they are challenged | May 09 21:45 |
| DavidGerard | basically, extorting money with menaces, but legally | May 09 21:45 |
| schestowitz | I think I got it covered already | May 09 21:45 |
| DavidGerard | cool | May 09 21:45 |
| schestowitz | Yes, a fool born every minute | May 09 21:45 |
| schestowitz | Or scared poor kids | May 09 21:45 |
| DavidGerard | that post is a great piece of research from torrentfreak | May 09 21:45 |
| schestowitz | Or cancer pateients | May 09 21:46 |
| schestowitz | Let me get refs | May 09 21:46 |
| DavidGerard | i must write it up for rocknerd | May 09 21:46 |
| DavidGerard | http://rocknerd.co.uk - my embittered rock journalist blog | May 09 21:46 |
| schestowitz | The RIAA vs. 19 Year Old Cancer Patient http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/entertainment/2009/3/26/the_riaa_vs_19_year_old.htm | May 09 21:46 |
| schestowitz | RIAA Sued For Racketeering Yet Again http://techdirt.com/articles/20081121/1203512916.shtml | May 09 21:46 |
| DavidGerard | back before i switched to IT, which is far more nice and friendly | May 09 21:46 |
| DavidGerard | really, the record companies are much nastier than microsoft has ever been. | May 09 21:46 |
| DavidGerard | they are evil fucks through and through. | May 09 21:46 |
| schestowitz | I learned today about wikileaks lawyers being assassinated | May 09 21:47 |
| DavidGerard | microsoft occasionally writes good software. | May 09 21:47 |
| schestowitz | Made me think of the Norway-based Wikipedian who killed his mom the other week | May 09 21:47 |
| DavidGerard | yeah | May 09 21:47 |
| schestowitz | But here you have the good guys being killed | May 09 21:47 |
| schestowitz | DavidGerard: nope | May 09 21:47 |
| schestowitz | MS BUYS good software | May 09 21:47 |
| schestowitz | Don't forget where all the sw comes from | May 09 21:47 |
| DavidGerard | hah | May 09 21:47 |
| schestowitz | "Usually Microsoft doesn't develop products, we buy products. It's not a bad product, but bits and pieces are missing." http://news.zdnet.co.uk/security/0,1000000189,39286351,00.htm Arno Edelmann, Microsoft | May 09 21:48 |
| DavidGerard | ah yeah. | May 09 21:48 |
| schestowitz | They bought the wrong product | May 09 21:48 |
| schestowitz | They didn't havbe problems developing | May 09 21:48 |
| *DavidGerard wonders what rock they found win32 under | May 09 21:48 | |
| schestowitz | The people with the papers bought the wrong thing | May 09 21:48 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft: we buy so that you can buy (directly from us) | May 09 21:48 |
| schestowitz | IE too | May 09 21:48 |
| schestowitz | Parts of Ofice | May 09 21:49 |
| DavidGerard | yeah | May 09 21:49 |
| schestowitz | *Orifice[sic] | May 09 21:49 |
| schestowitz | Even Frontpage | May 09 21:49 |
| DavidGerard | visio | May 09 21:49 |
| DavidGerard | powerpoint | May 09 21:49 |
| schestowitz | Ensemble | May 09 21:49 |
| schestowitz | Flight Sim | May 09 21:49 |
| schestowitz | Massive | May 09 21:49 |
| schestowitz | All sacked | May 09 21:49 |
| schestowitz | Wait until they sack Danger folks too | May 09 21:49 |
| schestowitz | MarkS will get some competition from BigG, not just BIllG: Dell Planning Android Based Netbooks < http://www.techtree.com/India/News/Dell_Planning_Android_Based_Netbooks/551-101798-580.html > | May 09 21:52 |
| schestowitz | Repackaging is best course of action for Oracle-Sun < http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0508/1224246114905.html > They so Sun was "killed" by Linux | May 09 21:53 |
| schestowitz | Just in: Linux netbooks expected to reach 50% market share < http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2009/05/09/2003443156 | May 09 21:55 |
| DavidGerard | that's a linpus wishful thinking release | May 09 21:57 |
| schestowitz | RealNetworks Chooses GNU/Linux for Its Hardware: RealNetworks lets Facet glitter, briefly < http://www.commsdesign.com/design_corner/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=217300836 > | May 09 21:57 |
| DavidGerard | linpus would have to not suck first | May 09 21:57 |
| DavidGerard | and take "pus" out of its name | May 09 21:57 |
| DavidGerard | "New netbook os: LinCancer!" | May 09 21:57 |
| schestowitz | I thought they renamed it Linplus | May 09 21:57 |
| DavidGerard | a triumph of marketing | May 09 21:57 |
| schestowitz | Linpus is OK name | May 09 21:57 |
| schestowitz | In most countries | May 09 21:58 |
| schestowitz | Some others like people's names sound bad here and there | May 09 21:58 |
| schestowitz | And maybe their target market ain't English-speaking countries | May 09 21:58 |
| schestowitz | Like korea | May 09 21:58 |
| schestowitz | E Ink Comes with Linux Toolkit < http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/05/e-ink-offers-broadsheet-kit-for-developers/ > | May 09 21:59 |
| DavidGerard | yeah | May 09 22:01 |
| DavidGerard | i want a cheap chinese gadget that has a kindle-like screen and runs linux and plays every unlocked format going | May 09 22:01 |
| DavidGerard | the pdf is a technology before its time | May 09 22:01 |
| DavidGerard | it was waiting for ebook readers with eink | May 09 22:01 |
| DavidGerard | man, that dev kit. i want one in a nice plastic shell. | May 09 22:03 |
| schestowitz | You can open PDFs in PDAs | May 09 22:03 |
| DavidGerard | i want a web browser running on eink. | May 09 22:03 |
| DavidGerard | i know | May 09 22:03 |
| schestowitz | A bit small, but.. | May 09 22:03 |
| DavidGerard | too small, that's the problem | May 09 22:03 |
| schestowitz | Or get wired up | May 09 22:03 |
| schestowitz | Put that text right in your eye | May 09 22:04 |
| schestowitz | How long before we inject input to our view of vision? | May 09 22:04 |
| schestowitz | Head-mounted masks are heavy | May 09 22:04 |
| schestowitz | Think how much space and energy would be saved | May 09 22:05 |
| DavidGerard | ok, my girlfriend has just seen taht eink dev kit | May 09 22:05 |
| schestowitz | Just use as much brightness as needed to read the darn thing | May 09 22:05 |
| DavidGerard | she wants one so she can make a steampunk case for it | May 09 22:05 |
| *_Hicham_ has quit (Connection timed out) | May 09 22:05 | |
| DavidGerard | of course the $3K is a minor obstacle | May 09 22:06 |
| schestowitz | Hmmm.. weird entry: http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-05-08-030-35-RV-HW | May 09 22:08 |
| schestowitz | OpenMoko was 10 times cheaper | May 09 22:08 |
| schestowitz | tessier has one | May 09 22:08 |
| DavidGerard | i'm surprised they just don't release a pile of prototypes | May 09 22:09 |
| DavidGerard | so many people want one even knowing how broken they are | May 09 22:10 |
| DavidGerard | everyone wants a gnuphone. FOR REAL. | May 09 22:10 |
| DavidGerard | i was JOKING. | May 09 22:10 |
| DavidGerard | (openmoko) | May 09 22:10 |
| DavidGerard | then someone posted the screenshot of gentoo booting on an openmoko. WHAT. | May 09 22:10 |
| tacone | debian also. | May 09 22:11 |
| tacone | and ubuntu on a android g1, though i didn't really understand if that was vlc or what. | May 09 22:11 |
| DavidGerard | that musta been quite a trick | May 09 22:12 |
| DavidGerard | and almost useless for phone | May 09 22:12 |
| tacone | windows 7 recommends 2gb of ram to run the freaking windows xp virtual machine http://lifehacker.com/5245396/set-up-and-use-xp-mode-in-windows-7 | May 09 22:14 |
| schestowitz | Jobs tried booting Linux on ipHone | May 09 22:14 |
| schestowitz | Passed out | May 09 22:14 |
| schestowitz | They took him to a hospital | May 09 22:14 |
| schestowitz | He trouched GPL | May 09 22:14 |
| tacone | iphone devs asked to use linux instead of bsd | May 09 22:14 |
| schestowitz | yes | May 09 22:14 |
| tacone | as much stuff was already done | May 09 22:15 |
| schestowitz | Jobs growled | May 09 22:15 |
| DavidGerard | yeah | May 09 22:15 |
| tacone | he replied he didn't want to use other people stuff. | May 09 22:15 |
| DavidGerard | apple is a study in hippie control addiction | May 09 22:15 |
| tacone | (or gpl ?) | May 09 22:15 |
| schestowitz | Hehe | May 09 22:15 |
| schestowitz | How ironic | May 09 22:15 |
| DavidGerard | and os x is a fully featured unix | May 09 22:15 |
| schestowitz | The same guy who stole from Xerox | May 09 22:15 |
| tacone | mac people still say you can compile programs just like in linux | May 09 22:15 |
| DavidGerard | that's approaching urban myth | May 09 22:15 |
| tacone | freaks. | May 09 22:15 |
| DavidGerard | xerox were paid handsomely for apple implementing their ideas usably | May 09 22:15 |
| tacone | try compile svn. or bzr. | May 09 22:15 |
| DavidGerard | probably one of the more profitable things to come from parc, in fact | May 09 22:16 |
| schestowitz | parc | May 09 22:16 |
| DavidGerard | tacone: darwin is a good bsd for most purposes | May 09 22:16 |
| schestowitz | I love the name | May 09 22:16 |
| schestowitz | Sounds like puck or prick | May 09 22:16 |
| MinceR | i'm sure it's great | May 09 22:16 |
| DavidGerard | as a friend of mine put it in 10.1 days: "wow, INN builds out the box on a desklamp!" (an imac g4) | May 09 22:16 |
| schestowitz | Linux >> BSD :-p | May 09 22:16 |
| DavidGerard | oh no it isn't. | May 09 22:16 |
| MinceR | the kernel, for example, combines the drawbacks of a microkernel with the drawbacks of a monolithic kernel. | May 09 22:16 |
| schestowitz | Linux <> BSD + massive brainwash :-p | May 09 22:17 |
| DavidGerard | freebsd is SO much nicer to administer at a kernel level than linux | May 09 22:17 |
| DavidGerard | the GNU userland is way better | May 09 22:17 |
| tacone | i've an interview to a macosx user coming out soon. nothing new, but maybe useful to put things into perspective. | May 09 22:17 |
| MinceR | does someone even do administration on the kernel level? :> | May 09 22:17 |
| schestowitz | If you build Apache into it | May 09 22:18 |
| schestowitz | Lots of work but possible | May 09 22:18 |
| schestowitz | Apachux | May 09 22:18 |
| schestowitz | 404s give you kernel oops | May 09 22:19 |
| schestowitz | Why is this new video tagged Novell? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCEHl3Ol5es | May 09 22:19 |
| tacone | it's not. | May 09 22:20 |
| DavidGerard | but anything kernely is just pain on linux | May 09 22:20 |
| schestowitz | Pretty good for a bank of kids | May 09 22:20 |
| DavidGerard | linux is written by overcaffienated monkeys on crack | May 09 22:20 |
| DavidGerard | bsd is written by computer scientists | May 09 22:20 |
| schestowitz | <DavidGerard> but anything kernely is just pain on linux | May 09 22:20 |
| schestowitz | But it is a kernel | May 09 22:20 |
| DavidGerard | who were, admittedly, overcaffeinated monkeys on crack when they wrote bsd | May 09 22:20 |
| schestowitz | It's like saying, everything mushroomy is wrong with mushrooms | May 09 22:20 |
| DavidGerard | but they're better now! | May 09 22:20 |
| tacone | schestowitz: +1 | May 09 22:21 |
| DavidGerard | no, i mean specifically kernel level stuff as opposed to user level stuff | May 09 22:21 |
| DavidGerard | GNU is good, apt/deb is fantastic, linux is horrible | May 09 22:21 |
| schestowitz | Naaa... | May 09 22:21 |
| DavidGerard | its plus points are (1) it works. (2) it keeps working. | May 09 22:21 |
| schestowitz | You contradict yourself | May 09 22:21 |
| tacone | deb is fantastic for the end user | May 09 22:21 |
| tacone | packaging is awful | May 09 22:21 |
| schestowitz | A few weeks ago in BN comments you said the opposite | May 09 22:21 |
| DavidGerard | i am speaking from personal opinion therefore am completely 100% correct | May 09 22:22 |
| DavidGerard | no i didn't! | May 09 22:22 |
| tacone | in windows you get an installer in ten clicks. | May 09 22:22 |
| DavidGerard | i have maintained this position consistently since 2002 | May 09 22:22 |
| schestowitz | You said Linux should be admired for it deals with HW better than BSD for exampel | May 09 22:22 |
| DavidGerard | yes, it edoes | May 09 22:22 |
| DavidGerard | does | May 09 22:22 |
| DavidGerard | that's why this laptop is running ubuntu | May 09 22:22 |
| tacone | we need a wizard for most common packaging. | May 09 22:22 |
| tacone | many people tried. even vadi is working on that. | May 09 22:22 |
| tacone | (vadi = packager for gnote) | May 09 22:22 |
| DavidGerard | (mind you, it's kernel panicking all the time. i'm tempted to debian squeeze it. if debian supports iwl3945 with its binary blob firmware workably.) | May 09 22:23 |
| DavidGerard | pakcaging? | May 09 22:23 |
| DavidGerard | you mean, beyond synaptic? | May 09 22:23 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft layoffs number 1,200 in Puget Sound http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/168039.asp?source=rss | May 09 22:23 |
| DavidGerard | (which is one of the finest bits of software ever to throw at users) | May 09 22:23 |
| tacone | i mean: creating a package. | May 09 22:23 |
| DavidGerard | i'm not clear on what you mean | May 09 22:23 |
| tacone | developer don't want to mess with packaging. | May 09 22:23 |
| schestowitz | Andredrle James took over the MS blog at the P-I | May 09 22:23 |
| DavidGerard | hm | May 09 22:23 |
| tacone | say I'm good at python | May 09 22:24 |
| tacone | i'd like to ship my app on ubuntu without having to learn too much about debs. | May 09 22:24 |
| tacone | do windows developers have to develop an installer ? | May 09 22:24 |
| tacone | they just use the wizard of visual studio in most cases. | May 09 22:25 |
| DavidGerard | heh | May 09 22:25 |
| schestowitz | IE on pace to drop below 50% share by 2011 < http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2009/050709-ie-on-pace-to-drop.html?fsrc=rss-linux-news > It's already under 15% in one site I have. | May 09 22:25 |
| DavidGerard | i dunno if becoming a debian developer (= packager) is any less bureaucratic than it was 10 years ago, but i doubt it | May 09 22:25 |
| tacone | i'm serious on this one. i understand that promoting ignorance is not good, but easy alternatives for the most common paths is good. | May 09 22:25 |
| tacone | bureaucracy is good. but the average developer just wants a fast way to get a deb working. | May 09 22:26 |
| DavidGerard | if you make a decently written piece of software that anyone gives a hoot about then someone will package it for the distros. you then just need to participate in their bugs etc. | May 09 22:26 |
| *schestowitz actually quite enjoys this Novell-tagged performance that showed up in RSS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCEHl3Ol5es | May 09 22:26 | |
| DavidGerard | packagers feel all happy and loved when the dev cares what they do | May 09 22:27 |
| schestowitz | Slated was a Fedora packager | May 09 22:28 |
| schestowitz | Now on an Internet break on the face of it.... | May 09 22:28 |
| *DavidGerard wonders what will happen with eglibc | May 09 22:28 | |
| tacone | happens that the mantainer is perceived as an asshole. | May 09 22:28 |
| DavidGerard | the thing that v few mention is that NO-ONE ships a vanilla glibc ... *including* fedora and red hat | May 09 22:28 |
| schestowitz | We started this IRC channel just under a year ago (one year very soon) and there were many trolls at the start. Not anymore, so mods/ops are not needed | May 09 22:29 |
| DavidGerard | and unilaterally declaring ARM unsupported was ... a good way to cause a fork. 'cos it's not going away. | May 09 22:29 |
| tacone | we should also say that mantaining a core library requires thick skin. | May 09 22:29 |
| DavidGerard | oh yeah | May 09 22:29 |
| DavidGerard | but y'know, there's linus and then there's theo and then there's ulrich. | May 09 22:30 |
| tacone | i mean, you can't accept random patches. | May 09 22:30 |
| DavidGerard | linus and theo are very bloody demanding, but do good work and they'll be pleased. | May 09 22:30 |
| tacone | a few bugs were pointed out in the public, showing the author as an asshole | May 09 22:30 |
| DavidGerard | like snape in harry potter. | May 09 22:30 |
| tacone | but I wonder how the other bugs were. | May 09 22:30 |
| DavidGerard | tacone: yeah. but unilaterally declaring ARM unsupported, no matter what GNU (the supposed sponsors) or Red Hat say? | May 09 22:31 |
| DavidGerard | that's "ok, thanks, i guess we have to fork now" | May 09 22:31 |
| tacone | even if Ulrich is an asshole, why then redhat keeps him employed ? | May 09 22:31 |
| DavidGerard | because he's very good indeed | May 09 22:31 |
| DavidGerard | but | May 09 22:31 |
| DavidGerard | y'know | May 09 22:31 |
| tacone | perhaps he has much more clue of other ones. | May 09 22:31 |
| tacone | i have some respect of debian packagers | May 09 22:32 |
| DavidGerard | it'd be interesting to hear from the people who maintain the patch set between vanilla glibc and the one that ships with red hat and fedora. | May 09 22:32 |
| DavidGerard | drepper is fantastically clueful | May 09 22:32 |
| tacone | but packager = not always a good developer | May 09 22:32 |
| DavidGerard | his paper on how to manage memory for programmers is ridiculously good. | May 09 22:32 |
| tacone | that's especcialy true for Ubuntu motus | May 09 22:32 |
| DavidGerard | everyone should read it. | May 09 22:32 |
| DavidGerard | i'm not a programmer at all, i'm a sysadmin, and i got a lot out of it. | May 09 22:33 |
| tacone | many just do bash scripting on lucky days | May 09 22:33 |
| DavidGerard | his level of technical clue is truly stratospheric. | May 09 22:33 |
| DavidGerard | however, look at linus or theo. also very clueful technically. but they know their job is management. | May 09 22:33 |
| tacone | let's see what happen | May 09 22:33 |
| DavidGerard | theo is famously abrasive, but he gets results and quite clearly knows his shit. | May 09 22:34 |
| tacone | i hope red hat and debian can find a way to unify the efforts. | May 09 22:34 |
| DavidGerard | well | May 09 22:34 |
| DavidGerard | if eglibc gather everyone's patch set in one place | May 09 22:34 |
| DavidGerard | that's basically what egcs did | May 09 22:34 |
| tacone | i'd like a public forum where distros leader talk publicly | May 09 22:34 |
| DavidGerard | (i wrote a pile of the early stuff in wikipedia on the egcs fork and unfork. it was ... quite a bit of work trying to write up the screaming frustrations in a neutral manner.) | May 09 22:35 |
| tacone | i already called for it, but no one listened (of course) | May 09 22:35 |
| DavidGerard | heh | May 09 22:35 |
| DavidGerard | debian and gentoo packagers frequently deal with each other# | May 09 22:35 |
| tacone | i want redhat leader, shuttlework and icaza in one place | May 09 22:35 |
| DavidGerard | even tho the distros are COMPLETELY different in concept | May 09 22:35 |
| schestowitz | tacone: agreed about packagers. Some are not even developers at all. | May 09 22:35 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC and oiaohm are not developers either, I think | May 09 22:36 |
| schestowitz | Yet they know Linux fantastically well | May 09 22:36 |
| tacone | diversity is good. | May 09 22:36 |
| tacone | decentralization is good. | May 09 22:36 |
| tacone | but they need to talk. | May 09 22:36 |
| *DaemonFC smacks schestowitz with Virtual Windows Me Mode | May 09 22:36 | |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 09 22:36 |
| schestowitz | Developers then | May 09 22:37 |
| schestowitz | Sorry, just oiaohm then | May 09 22:37 |
| *tacone smacks schestowitz with a Win virus running on a Windows ME virtual machine hosted by Virtual PC (take this !) | May 09 22:37 | |
| schestowitz | It won't run | May 09 22:37 |
| schestowitz | No binary compatibility | May 09 22:37 |
| schestowitz | No Mono, either | May 09 22:37 |
| *DavidGerard thinks of the xkcd with the win32 virus terrarium | May 09 22:38 | |
| DaemonFC | I bought a copy of Windows Me actually | May 09 22:38 |
| DaemonFC | for $20 | May 09 22:38 |
| DavidGerard | lol | May 09 22:38 |
| DavidGerard | file next to your copy of sco unix | May 09 22:38 |
| DaemonFC | MS had a $20 promo upgrade for Windows 98 users :) | May 09 22:38 |
| schestowitz | Blank CDs are cheaper | May 09 22:38 |
| schestowitz | Also more useful | May 09 22:38 |
| DavidGerard | nah | May 09 22:39 |
| DavidGerard | you could use it to threaten people | May 09 22:39 |
| *tacone can't live without mono | May 09 22:40 | |
| tacone | mono is better than two. | May 09 22:40 |
| DaemonFC | http://news.cnet.com/2100-1040-244857.html | May 09 22:40 |
| schestowitz | http://www.it-analysis.com/business/news_release.php?rel=10996 Hong Kong Schools' activate 'Swine Flu Plan' for virtual learning at home | May 09 22:42 |
| DaemonFC | http://content.answers.com/main/content/img/amg/games/drg000/g077/g07730pupb6.jpg | May 09 22:42 |
| schestowitz | Windows Meh | May 09 22:43 |
| DavidGerard | Save Vista! http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=83481756967 | May 09 22:43 |
| DavidGerard | 76 people want to save Vista so far! | May 09 22:43 |
| DavidGerard | if only microsoft had pushed ME harder | May 09 22:44 |
| tacone | wow | May 09 22:44 |
| *DaemonFC will sign up to save Vista | May 09 22:44 | |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 09 22:44 |
| tacone | yeah http://xkcd.com/323/ | May 09 22:44 |
| tacone | windows me ftw ! | May 09 22:44 |
| DavidGerard | do it do it | May 09 22:45 |
| DavidGerard | and spread that link to EVERYONE | May 09 22:45 |
| DavidGerard | i want the concept of "SAVE VISTA!" to attain popularity | May 09 22:45 |
| DavidGerard | and tech press notice on a really slow day | May 09 22:45 |
| schestowitz | News Corp will charge for newspaper websites, says Rupert Murdoch < http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/may/07/rupert-murdoch-charging-websites > | May 09 22:48 |
| schestowitz | Killing the Internet is their last chance | May 09 22:48 |
| schestowitz | Or crippling it | May 09 22:48 |
| schestowitz | He already says so | May 09 22:48 |
| DavidGerard | Every other newspaper site in the world throws their hats in the air, webpage at 11 | May 09 22:49 |
| schestowitz | Something like the Net as we know it is about to change. | May 09 22:49 |
| schestowitz | DavidGerard: : yes, except The Sun | May 09 22:49 |
| DavidGerard | hah | May 09 22:49 |
| schestowitz | [because they ahve page 3] | May 09 22:49 |
| DavidGerard | yeah. the wall street journal can paywall because it has a unique value proposition. | May 09 22:49 |
| tacone | VISTA is a monument to everything that makes us the country we are! | May 09 22:49 |
| DavidGerard | recycled AP feeds, corporate backed op-eds, reprinted press releases and garfield cartoons ... do not have a unique value proposition. | May 09 22:50 |
| DavidGerard | tacone: all the people who complain vista is slow on their computer | May 09 22:50 |
| DavidGerard | are just girly men POOFTAHS who need a REAL computer. | May 09 22:50 |
| schestowitz | The MAFIAA attacks Lessig: update on Warner Music (UPDATED) (AGAIN) < http://www.lessig.org/blog/2009/04/update_on_warner_music.html > | May 09 22:50 |
| DavidGerard | a REAL computer has sixteen cores, 8 GB ram and enough fans to lift the building. | May 09 22:51 |
| DavidGerard | anything less is just unworthy. | May 09 22:51 |
| tacone | lol | May 09 22:51 |
| *tacone agrees on the number of fans | May 09 22:51 | |
| schestowitz | 8 gb of ram? | May 09 22:51 |
| schestowitz | Vista can do just 3.2 | May 09 22:51 |
| schestowitz | BUT | May 09 22:51 |
| tacone | and a dozen of mouses, please. | May 09 22:51 |
| schestowitz | It'll say 4gb | May 09 22:51 |
| schestowitz | to lie | May 09 22:51 |
| silentivm | 64-bit Vista can do > 4GB, AFAIK | May 09 22:51 |
| schestowitz | I think they ficxed the lie with a patch | May 09 22:51 |
| DavidGerard | yeah, 64-bit can do lots | May 09 22:51 |
| schestowitz | I'd have to look at refs to confirm the details | May 09 22:51 |
| schestowitz | silentivm: yes, but c'mon. | May 09 22:52 |
| silentivm | :P | May 09 22:52 |
| schestowitz | it's winder. No repos | May 09 22:52 |
| tacone | DavidGerard: uh, you're the group founder | May 09 22:52 |
| silentivm | yep | May 09 22:52 |
| silentivm | :D | May 09 22:52 |
| schestowitz | tacone: he's Wikipedia's founder | May 09 22:53 |
| DavidGerard | tacone: YEAH, AND? | May 09 22:53 |
| schestowitz | His and Larry | May 09 22:53 |
| schestowitz | *him | May 09 22:53 |
| schestowitz | :-) | May 09 22:53 |
| *tacone is confused | May 09 22:53 | |
| DavidGerard | i am COMPLETELY in favour of Vista continuing FOREVER | May 09 22:53 |
| schestowitz | DavidGerard: did you see the blog post about it from Sagner (??)? | May 09 22:53 |
| DavidGerard | Vista is necessary to the advancement of personal computing! | May 09 22:53 |
| DavidGerard | schestowitz: about what? | May 09 22:53 |
| schestowitz | He wrote a blog post about 3 weeks ago | May 09 22:53 |
| schestowitz | Kind of sad | May 09 22:54 |
| schestowitz | About Jimbo raking the chips | May 09 22:54 |
| DavidGerard | oh that | May 09 22:54 |
| DavidGerard | frankly, no-one on wikipedia in 2009 could give a hoot. | May 09 22:54 |
| schestowitz | DavidGerard: Vista is continuing | May 09 22:54 |
| DavidGerard | it's completely irrelevant. | May 09 22:54 |
| DaemonFC | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331723 | May 09 22:54 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 09 22:54 |
| schestowitz | under a new name though: vista7 | May 09 22:54 |
| DaemonFC | "Firefox is less problematic on Win9x than on | May 09 22:55 |
| DaemonFC | WinXP, so why kill it? Simply because some new guys want to save some hundred | May 09 22:55 |
| DaemonFC | bytes by removing old proven code? So why not kill Quirks mode also? Would also | May 09 22:55 |
| DaemonFC | make the code more readable." | May 09 22:55 |
| DaemonFC | errr | May 09 22:55 |
| schestowitz | DavidGerard: same in wordpress | May 09 22:55 |
| DaemonFC | oops | May 09 22:55 |
| schestowitz | Mike Little and Matt Mullenweg | May 09 22:55 |
| schestowitz | Matt took all the credit | May 09 22:55 |
| schestowitz | I met Mike, who was locked out by Matt et al | May 09 22:55 |
| DavidGerard | it's rather sad that there's nothing else to say on the official citizendium blog | May 09 22:55 |
| schestowitz | Boren, Matt and others in Texas took over | May 09 22:55 |
| schestowitz | The co-founder just sort of left | May 09 22:55 |
| DavidGerard | than a post that has no relevance to citizendium and very little relevance to wikipedia. | May 09 22:55 |
| DavidGerard | i mean, does this advance either project writing an encylcopedia? | May 09 22:56 |
| DavidGerard | people are already calling it "bitterzendium" | May 09 22:56 |
| DavidGerard | and it actually deserves more | May 09 22:56 |
| DavidGerard | being the xfree86 of encyclopedia sites is not a good position to push oneself into.# | May 09 22:57 |
| DaemonFC | hmmmm | May 09 22:58 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I figure out how to do a Windows 2000 syyle XP install | May 09 22:58 |
| DaemonFC | without all the marketing spam | May 09 22:58 |
| schestowitz | Ellison: "That's why Apple's iPhone is so much better than Microsoft phones." | May 09 22:59 |
| schestowitz | Hehe | May 09 22:59 |
| MinceR | what's "that"? | May 09 22:59 |
| schestowitz | http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssTechMediaTelecomNews/idUSN0740285120090507 | May 09 23:00 |
| schestowitz | h/w control | May 09 23:00 |
| DavidGerard | oh good lord | May 09 23:00 |
| DavidGerard | firefox crashed AGAIN | May 09 23:00 |
| schestowitz | too much candy | May 09 23:00 |
| DaemonFC | meh, Apple's iPhone is perceived to be better because they keep them scarce | May 09 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Happens here too sometimes | May 09 23:00 |
| MinceR | it's perceived to be better because people are stupid. | May 09 23:00 |
| DaemonFC | if OS X Mobile was just a commodity then it wouldn't be scarce or illegall 'price fixed | May 09 23:00 |
| DavidGerard | iphone is a phone interface that doesn't make people want to smash it to bits with a hammer. | May 09 23:00 |
| DaemonFC | *illegally | May 09 23:00 |
| schestowitz | /s/scarce/crap/ | May 09 23:00 |
| DavidGerard | that's enough of a feature fo rthem to charge twice the going rate. | May 09 23:00 |
| DavidGerard | i have a nokia 5800. | May 09 23:01 |
| DavidGerard | IT IS SO FUCKING HORRIBLE. | May 09 23:01 |
| DaemonFC | people see 20 brands of phones that are 5 times less expensive running Windows | May 09 23:01 |
| DavidGerard | it shits on the iphone for tick-the-list features | May 09 23:01 |
| DaemonFC | so iphone looks unique and valuable | May 09 23:01 |
| DaemonFC | when it really is not | May 09 23:01 |
| DavidGerard | DaemonFC: usabiltity is a bigger feature than all other features put together. | May 09 23:01 |
| DavidGerard | apple realises this, which is why steve jobs is richer than you. | May 09 23:01 |
| DaemonFC | I wouldn't call iphone useable | May 09 23:01 |
| DavidGerard | apple is evil, but they're efficient and effective evil. | May 09 23:01 |
| DavidGerard | you can wilfully not understand this, but that doesn't make it false. | May 09 23:02 |
| DaemonFC | no, they convince people that they have better design | May 09 23:02 |
| DaemonFC | and they really don't | May 09 23:02 |
| DaemonFC | I've crashed OS X more times than I really want to think about | May 09 23:02 |
| DaemonFC | it's as smooth as an egyptian whiskey | May 09 23:02 |
| DaemonFC | it's got all the problems of Windows *and* it's more expensive | May 09 23:03 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 09 23:03 |
| DaemonFC | you can argue Microsoft vs. Apple all you want, but they're really just coke and pepsi, two versions of the same thing, and maybe one is a little sweeter | May 09 23:04 |
| DaemonFC | there's a lot of things keeping viruses off the Mac and Mac security is not one of them | May 09 23:05 |
| DavidGerard | back in a while | May 09 23:05 |
| DaemonFC | the last time I looked they turn off the firewall by default in OS X 10.5 | May 09 23:06 |
| DaemonFC | and the damned thing even replies to pings | May 09 23:06 |
| DaemonFC | confirming there is a computer there | May 09 23:06 |
| schestowitz | Regarding Sun and corruption, PJ writes: "This is in the Risks section, where ominous language is the norm." | May 09 23:07 |
| *Omar87 has quit (Connection timed out) | May 09 23:08 | |
| schestowitz | I'd like to try OS X for a long time at one stage, just so that I can see it Fails(C) | May 09 23:08 |
| schestowitz | It can't beat Mandriva so easily | May 09 23:09 |
| schestowitz | I'm not qualified to bash Mac OS X based on the few times of using someone else's toy.. err.. I mean, white Mac | May 09 23:10 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: The last time they really had a Mac that I liked, it was the motorola mac | May 09 23:11 |
| DaemonFC | I think that was more because DOS/Windows were so bad in comparison | May 09 23:12 |
| MinceR | 001344 < DavidGerard> apple realises this, which is why steve jobs is richer than you. | May 09 23:13 |
| MinceR | nope | May 09 23:13 |
| MinceR | he's richer than us because he stole some important stuff from xerox at the right time :> | May 09 23:13 |
| DaemonFC | I'd still choose a Windows PC over a Mac if those were the options just for the fact that Apple is expensive and incompatible with more of the software I use | May 09 23:14 |
| MinceR | as for the usability myth, i've found a post about that recently. | May 09 23:14 |
| MinceR | http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1216799&cid=27790643 | May 09 23:14 |
| schestowitz | We're getting shafted on Ethernet here. | May 09 23:19 |
| schestowitz | Someone down in London write.. | May 09 23:19 |
| schestowitz | *tes | May 09 23:19 |
| schestowitz | "As I would point out in the article I intend to write about it. Your connection is only as wide as the narrowest tube on the path between you and the server." | May 09 23:19 |
| schestowitz | "Reminds me of when I was at an ISP and they advertised upgrading from 32kb to 56kb. So everyone went out and bought V.90 modems and got exactly the same speed. As bandwidth was governed by the quality of the copper wire from your house to the exchange." | May 09 23:19 |
| schestowitz | "Same when they advertised DSL. Installed switches at the exchange at great expense. Only think is you had masses of dropped connections at anything over a third of usage. Too much crosstalk on the copper wires. Stuff that hadn't been upgraded since most probably the 19th century." | May 09 23:19 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: the Macs I tried... well, had pleasant fonts | May 09 23:20 |
| schestowitz | Hardly a feature that'll keep me there, but it's h/w that makes it so | May 09 23:20 |
| schestowitz | Apple has good monitors | May 09 23:20 |
| schestowitz | Like the one I used in OS 9 many times | May 09 23:20 |
| schestowitz | I think they also use h/w to accelerate hinting | May 09 23:20 |
| DaemonFC | meh | May 09 23:21 |
| DaemonFC | a monitor is a monitor pretty much | May 09 23:21 |
| DaemonFC | this westinghouse one is nice enough | May 09 23:21 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: depath of pixels and all | May 09 23:21 |
| ushimitsudoki | ars hyping moonlight again: http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/174096756/m/874009358931 | May 09 23:21 |
| schestowitz | Not all are made equal | May 09 23:21 |
| DaemonFC | just don't go for something no name or get a CRT and you'll be fine | May 09 23:21 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: Paul? | May 09 23:21 |
| ushimitsudoki | Of course | May 09 23:21 |
| schestowitz | Oh, he's a real Migel fan | May 09 23:21 |
| schestowitz | *Miguel | May 09 23:21 |
| ushimitsudoki | I suspect it's because the mono/moonlight teams provide him with news and it makes his job easy. I keep saying that Novell people are well organized that way | May 09 23:22 |
| ushimitsudoki | All he has to do is parrot a press release and collect a paycheck | May 09 23:22 |
| schestowitz | Guess who else hypes it now? | May 09 23:22 |
| MinceR | i like my Acer monitor. all subpixels of it work correctly. :) | May 09 23:22 |
| schestowitz | Found hours ago: http://www.novell.com/prblogs/?p=584 | May 09 23:23 |
| DaemonFC | I want to strangle whoever did that damned clicking noise | May 09 23:23 |
| DaemonFC | every time you open a link in IE or change folders in Windows Explorer | May 09 23:23 |
| DaemonFC | I have to turn that off on every XP installation | May 09 23:23 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: no, he uses it too | May 09 23:23 |
| schestowitz | He is actually one of the few who do this | May 09 23:24 |
| schestowitz | Another is Jason Brooks | May 09 23:24 |
| schestowitz | SJVN too, sometimes | May 09 23:24 |
| schestowitz | I like my CRT better than the LCD | May 09 23:24 |
| schestowitz | CRTs had better resolution | May 09 23:24 |
| schestowitz | Now it's impossible to do over 2000px on a single head | May 09 23:24 |
| MinceR | i prefer LCDs | May 09 23:24 |
| schestowitz | SO my PC at work with 2 CRTs is 4000px wide | May 09 23:25 |
| MinceR | sharper image, correct geometry, practically no flicker | May 09 23:25 |
| schestowitz | At home it's like 1600+1920 | May 09 23:25 |
| schestowitz | And that's with wide one too, so still a waste | May 09 23:25 |
| DaemonFC | I wonder when Chrome will be on Linux | May 09 23:30 |
| DaemonFC | I heard a rumor stating July | May 09 23:30 |
| schestowitz | Cuba releases free video game that teaches Unix to kids, built with Blender and GIMP http://news.northxsouth.com/2009/05/07/cuba-releases-free-video-game-that-teaches-unix-to-kids-built-with-blender-and-gimp/ | May 09 23:34 |
| your PC at work sucks down between two and four hundred watts. LCDs could do it at half that. | May 09 23:34 | |
| schestowitz | twitter: I know. | May 09 23:34 |
| schestowitz | Disposal and production too have a cost | May 09 23:34 |
| Ah, this is true. If it's already there, it's already there. I'm getting by with a single used laptop now. | May 09 23:35 | |
| MinceR | i wonder if OLED will finally fix the display issues we're having | May 09 23:35 |
| I want to strangle the people who make IE, ha ha. | May 09 23:36 | |
| not really. | May 09 23:36 | |
| but I wish IE would go free or away. | May 09 23:36 | |
| PC vrs Mac. Funny. either way, I'd install the same software. | May 09 23:37 | |
| MinceR | either way i'd put gnu/linux on it | May 09 23:38 |
| right | May 09 23:38 | |
| MinceR | and either way the hw is likely to suck | May 09 23:38 |
| you think? I'm happy with an X30. | May 09 23:38 | |
| MinceR | in the latter case, pretty much guaranteed | May 09 23:38 |
| MinceR | X30 what? | May 09 23:38 |
| thinkpad | May 09 23:38 | |
| I've had it for about three years now. | May 09 23:39 | |
| MinceR | one of the rare exceptions, i guess | May 09 23:39 |
| MinceR | too bad lenovo are being dicks now. | May 09 23:39 |
| thinkpads have been good hardware, I don't know how Lenovo has been. | May 09 23:40 | |
| the X30 is basically what netbooks should be. | May 09 23:41 | |
| schestowitz | ODF Alliance to hit Microsoft next week: "That’s the plan for next week. A harder-hitting press release with Fact Sheet. Stay tuned!" http://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-154383/microsoft-now-attempts-to-sabotage-odf | May 09 23:41 |
| that will be interesting | May 09 23:42 | |
| schestowitz | Yeah | May 09 23:42 |
| schestowitz | ODF Alliance tried to stay friendly | May 09 23:42 |
| to who? | May 09 23:42 | |
| schestowitz | WINE 1.1.21 Starts On Shader Model 4 Support http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzI1Mg | May 09 23:43 |
| schestowitz | twitter: everyone | May 09 23:43 |
| then they should still be friendly | May 09 23:44 | |
| it is not unfriendly to call a criminal out for their crime | May 09 23:44 | |
| DavidGerard | there's also massimo doing an autocad branch of wine with his dib engine | May 09 23:45 |
| DavidGerard | doing a proper dib engine is hard | May 09 23:45 |
| DavidGerard | basically it'll require serious rearchitecting of wine | May 09 23:45 |
| DavidGerard | but his experimental version is good enough to do a package of | May 09 23:45 |
| schestowitz | "Altitude is available online for PC, Mac, and Linux for US$19.95. " Altitude Free Weekend for PC, Mac, and Linux | May 09 23:45 |
| schestowitz | http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/981/981069p1.html | May 09 23:45 |
| DavidGerard | wine is getting scarily good | May 09 23:46 |
| *neonfloor has quit ("Leaving") | May 09 23:46 | |
| schestowitz | Yeah, I hear | May 09 23:46 |
| *schestowitz does not ever -drink- use wine | May 09 23:46 | |
| DavidGerard | :-) | May 09 23:47 |
| DavidGerard | there is free software that uses win32 and will never be ported to unix because it's so bound to win32 | May 09 23:47 |
| DavidGerard | e.g. virtualdub | May 09 23:47 |
| DavidGerard | which is well tested in wine | May 09 23:47 |
| DavidGerard | there's a gpl app, BabySplat, where babies and toddlers can mash the keys and get shapes and noises | May 09 23:48 |
| DavidGerard | works perfectly | May 09 23:48 |
| DavidGerard | at that stage it's just programmers choosing an obtuse interface, not a problem of software freedom | May 09 23:48 |
| schestowitz | Grandkids? | May 09 23:48 |
| schestowitz | " babies and toddlers" | May 09 23:48 |
| DavidGerard | my daughter in particular | May 09 23:49 |
| DavidGerard | she LOVES it | May 09 23:49 |
| schestowitz | What was that game where babies bounced off windows? Circa 1987 | May 09 23:49 |
| DavidGerard | i should paypal the guy $10 | May 09 23:49 |
| DavidGerard | oh dear, no idea | May 09 23:49 |
| it is a problem of software freedom. they subject themselves to a non free platform as well as support it with their mind share. | May 09 23:50 | |
| *MinceR is reminded of Baby Shaker | May 09 23:50 | |
| it is nice that Wine will keep their work from going to complete waste, but they should know that W32 is a dead end | May 09 23:51 | |
| schestowitz | MinceR: baby (shaker) is dead | May 09 23:53 |
| schestowitz | Jobs killer the baby and the shaker | May 09 23:53 |
| schestowitz | *lled | May 09 23:53 |
| MinceR | i know | May 09 23:53 |
| schestowitz | Wine is great for migrations in particular (n00bs). It's easy to be misled. It's the press that's dying, not the migrations. Lots of organisations I know move to Linux, but there are no reporters left to cover this. Watch Microsoft news and you'll see the same drought over there; but there it is a real drought, not just reporting. | May 09 23:53 |
| schestowitz | http://beginlinux.wordpress.com/2009/05/09/mandriva-2009-1-administration-advantagesdisadvantages/ ;'Though I did not work with every tool for this article, I will say that most tools worked fine. I will also say that the hardware management with Mandriva is excellent which means easier work with hardware devices. The tools that are a part of the Control Center are basic tools and seem to be fine for someone who is doing basic admi | May 09 23:54 |
| schestowitz | nistration, but not up to speed for more advanced options." | May 09 23:54 |
| DavidGerard | well yeah. win32 is a dead end. | May 09 23:54 |
| DavidGerard | otoh there are zillions of apps that are never going to be ported. | May 09 23:55 |
| schestowitz | 10 Steps for Basic Linux Desktop Security < http://linuxsysconfig.com/2009/05/10-steps-for-basic-linux-desktop-security/ > | May 09 23:55 |
| DavidGerard | and for getting people to free OSes ... there's always that *one* app. | May 09 23:55 |
| schestowitz | DavidGerard: well, Vista7 has XP mode | May 09 23:55 |
| schestowitz | For those with certain chips and lots of RAM | May 09 23:55 |
| schestowitz | That's the wrong approach to back-ocompat | May 09 23:55 |
| for every *one* app, there are several free ones. | May 09 23:55 | |
| DavidGerard | and those obscure windows apps your whole business runs on that you can't even find the developer or company? wine runs them really well on the whole. | May 09 23:55 |
| DavidGerard | twitter: you have evidently never actually convinced anyone with that. | May 09 23:56 |
| schestowitz | Wine -- master of winspace[sic] | May 09 23:56 |
| and that *one* app, it's not going to work with Vista anyway. | May 09 23:56 | |
| DavidGerard | the scary thing about win32 is how few programmers it took to reimplement the *important* parts of windows | May 09 23:56 |
| DavidGerard | well yes. wine is a better windows than vsta. | May 09 23:56 |
| apparently, Dave, I have not convinced you. | May 09 23:56 | |
| schestowitz | Hhee. | May 09 23:57 |
| schestowitz | 10 Steps for Basic Linux Desktop Security | May 09 23:57 |
| schestowitz | http://www.2indya.com/ | May 09 23:57 |
| DavidGerard | y'know, if openoffice wasn't enough ... microsoft now have competition for *windows*. | May 09 23:57 |
| schestowitz | Something went wrong | May 09 23:57 |
| schestowitz | Login screen | May 09 23:57 |
| MinceR | twitter: then why are people still using dosbox? :> | May 09 23:57 |
| schestowitz | For all URLs requested | May 09 23:57 |
| DavidGerard | argh, toddler got to my laptop agan!! | May 09 23:57 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: shake it | May 09 23:57 |
| schestowitz | Like in iphone | May 09 23:57 |
| I use dosbox when I feel like I've been bad and need to be punished. | May 09 23:58 | |
| schestowitz | Oops. DavidGerard | May 09 23:58 |
| MinceR | Shake it baby! | May 09 23:58 |
| DavidGerard | u and i don't work now | May 09 23:58 |
| DavidGerard | arfgh | May 09 23:58 |
| MinceR | i use dosbox when i feel like playing tyrian2000 | May 09 23:58 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: baby of booty? | May 09 23:58 |
| MinceR | or the catacomb 3d | May 09 23:58 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: indeed | May 09 23:58 |
| DavidGerard | i emailed the fsf about the openwatcom license | May 09 23:58 |
| DavidGerard | apparently they'll be approaching the company about making the license gpl-compatble | May 09 23:59 |
| schestowitz | How to Install OpenOffice.org 3.1 on Ubuntu 9.04 < http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-to-Install-OpenOffice-org-3-1-on-Ubuntu-9-04-111105.shtml > | May 09 23:59 |
| I've actually got a few horrible old BASIC programs that can be handy for calcs. They are the result of about 10 years of class projects. | May 09 23:59 | |
| schestowitz | DavidGerard: maybe your chance to get the thing sorted out | May 09 23:59 |
| DavidGerard | quite possibly the most horrble 'open' license ever http://opensource.org./licenses/sybase.php | May 09 23:59 |
| making watcom gpl compatible would be nice. | May 09 23:59 | |
| DavidGerard | i don't know how the fuck it passed OSI | May 09 23:59 |
| DavidGerard | it failed DFSG | May 09 23:59 |
| good luck | May 09 23:59 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.6 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
