| tacone | pft | May 22 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| tacone | workswithu is mainly rubbish | May 22 00:00 |
| tacone | well not really rubbish, but pretty a commercial site | May 22 00:00 |
| schestowitz | World’s Smallest Computer Runs on Ubuntu < http://trendsupdates.com/worlds-smallest-computer-runs-on-ubuntu/ > | May 22 00:00 |
| tacone | some enterprise consideration along with a 90% of pointless speculations | May 22 00:01 |
| schestowitz | tacone: agreed | May 22 00:01 |
| tacone | ubuntu newsletter, though, seems to like it. | May 22 00:01 |
| schestowitz | I like the guy who runs it though | May 22 00:01 |
| tacone | it looks professional | May 22 00:01 |
| schestowitz | I'm friends with Joe (vary Guy) | May 22 00:01 |
| tacone | urgh | May 22 00:01 |
| tacone | that guy never links to anyone | May 22 00:01 |
| schestowitz | The people who write for WorkswithU (which is a name I hate BTW) troll a lot | May 22 00:01 |
| schestowitz | Provoke rather | May 22 00:01 |
| schestowitz | Not troll | May 22 00:02 |
| tacone | i pretty much hate it. | May 22 00:02 |
| tacone | him | May 22 00:02 |
| schestowitz | It's like they try to make "U" the standards Linux | May 22 00:02 |
| tacone | workswithu is a nice name | May 22 00:02 |
| schestowitz | it annoys some people | May 22 00:02 |
| tacone | that's not the problem :) | May 22 00:02 |
| schestowitz | tacone: all the sites look professional | May 22 00:02 |
| schestowitz | They look the same | May 22 00:02 |
| schestowitz | Just different colours and all | May 22 00:02 |
| schestowitz | WEeb designers | May 22 00:02 |
| tacone | not in the look | May 22 00:03 |
| tacone | they're successfull at being considered professionals, i think. | May 22 00:03 |
| schestowitz | redhat.com - 2nd round http://linuxsysconfig.com/2009/05/redhatcom-2nd-round/ looking bad??! | May 22 00:03 |
| tacone | the var guy especially, has a nice following. but i didn't read anything interesting from him, until now | May 22 00:03 |
| schestowitz | He's buddied with Novell | May 22 00:04 |
| schestowitz | And I pressure him | May 22 00:04 |
| schestowitz | *ddies | May 22 00:04 |
| tacone | we'll see | May 22 00:04 |
| tacone | offline time ! | May 22 00:05 |
| tacone | bye ! | May 22 00:05 |
| schestowitz | Did you see http://www.geektechnica.com/2009/05/the-future-of-gnome-de-looks-promising/ ? | May 22 00:05 |
| schestowitz | Oh, nm | May 22 00:05 |
| schestowitz | laters | May 22 00:05 |
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| chips_b_malroy | you must have seen this one Jury orders Microsoft to pay $200M in patent dispute http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=government&articleId=9133384&taxonomyId=13&intsrc=kc_top | May 22 00:07 |
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| schestowitz | Wait | May 22 00:08 |
| schestowitz | Oh, he left | May 22 00:08 |
| schestowitz | I found a goodie | May 22 00:08 |
| schestowitz | chips_b_malroy: yes | May 22 00:08 |
| chips_b_malroy | a guess why M$ needs to borrow money, the upcoming fines in the IE bundling with the EU. also following by the fine with the EU for office formats | May 22 00:10 |
| chips_b_malroy | GE, Microsoft, Caterpillar fight Obama tax plan http://www.thedeal.com/dealscape/2009/05/obama_tax_plan_could_collatera.php | May 22 00:11 |
| chips_b_malroy | last one then I gone Microsoft charity crackdown spurs boycott http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=63B8D6DC-1A64-6A71-CE239976114D2137 | May 22 00:14 |
| schestowitz | We've just moved b/w servers and the new one lacks an extension, I thin | May 22 00:15 |
| schestowitz | *think | May 22 00:15 |
| schestowitz | So expect error pages. tessier can fix this when he gets back | May 22 00:15 |
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| chips_b_malroy | I read the log about the dos attack and tor. Is there a way to ban ip addresses from tor exit modules? | May 22 00:16 |
| chips_b_malroy | ip tables | May 22 00:16 |
| chips_b_malroy | or perhaps change the comment system to only reg people? | May 22 00:17 |
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| schestowitz | comment system? | May 22 00:18 |
| schestowitz | For members only? | May 22 00:18 |
| schestowitz | It's possible | May 22 00:18 |
| schestowitz | But trolls might still come by | May 22 00:18 |
| chips_b_malroy | thinking the log said that comments were the vehicle they used to dos? | May 22 00:19 |
| chips_b_malroy | regging users with email verification of course will not stop the trolls, but might slow down the dos ones | May 22 00:20 |
| chips_b_malroy | later | May 22 00:22 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft is spinning out of control, so it starts squeezing charities | May 22 00:24 |
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| MinceR | gn | May 22 00:25 |
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| Balrog_ | schestowitz: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/14/bbc-zombie-pc-crimes-conficker/ is broken | May 22 00:38 |
| Balrog_ | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/19/bbc-windows-botnets-fiasco/ also | May 22 00:38 |
| schestowitz | Yes, tessier needs to fix this | May 22 00:38 |
| schestowitz | But he's away | May 22 00:39 |
| Balrog_ | ok | May 22 00:39 |
| schestowitz | Missing extension | May 22 00:39 |
| Balrog_ | looks like mod_rewrite is broken | May 22 00:39 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 22 00:39 |
| Balrog_ | ( I hear mod_rewrite is a nightmare to work with ... too powerful for your own good :P ) | May 22 00:40 |
| schestowitz | tessier just need to enable it or something | May 22 00:41 |
| schestowitz | We moved it to a vitual server | May 22 00:41 |
| Balrog_ | o ok. | May 22 00:42 |
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| tessier | eh? | May 22 01:03 |
| schestowitz | Hey | May 22 01:03 |
| schestowitz | I tried phoning just now :-) | May 22 01:03 |
| schestowitz | mod_rewrite | May 22 01:03 |
| tessier | Yeah, that's why I jumped over here | May 22 01:03 |
| schestowitz | Like the last time | May 22 01:03 |
| tessier | Oh, right...you have the .htaccess thing. I forgot about that... | May 22 01:03 |
| tessier | Ok, just a sec... | May 22 01:03 |
| schestowitz | Thanks! | May 22 01:03 |
| schestowitz | Site been broken all this time. No big deal.. | May 22 01:03 |
| schestowitz | :-) | May 22 01:04 |
| tessier | There we go...all set | May 22 01:05 |
| tessier | Actually not all that many people have the new dns yet | May 22 01:05 |
| tessier | The old site is still getting lots of hits | May 22 01:05 |
| schestowitz | Phew :-) | May 22 01:05 |
| schestowitz | Thanks a million | May 22 01:05 |
| schestowitz | Balrog_ got some error | May 22 01:05 |
| schestowitz | *rs | May 22 01:05 |
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| schestowitz | Thanks for all the effort | May 22 01:05 |
| schestowitz | Groklaw had a long discussion about this. | May 22 01:06 |
| schestowitz | The angry Novell people spread the rumour that I attacked myself | May 22 01:06 |
| _Hicham_ | they must prove it | May 22 01:07 |
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| tessier | That would be an odd thing to do to oneself. | May 22 01:07 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: they don't need to | May 22 01:07 |
| schestowitz | Cause they would be wrong | May 22 01:07 |
| schestowitz | tessier: yes | May 22 01:07 |
| _Hicham_ | maybe tessier did it :-D | May 22 01:08 |
| _Hicham_ | hahahahaha | May 22 01:08 |
| schestowitz | tessier did a lot.. of good things | May 22 01:08 |
| schestowitz | He saved the site | May 22 01:08 |
| schestowitz | We got stranded by the host | May 22 01:08 |
| schestowitz | After it had been hit by DDOS | May 22 01:09 |
| _Hicham_ | bravo tessier | May 22 01:09 |
| schestowitz | tessier managed to beat the DDOS unlike the host | May 22 01:09 |
| _Hicham_ | tessier is our savior | May 22 01:09 |
| schestowitz | The other host tried for 10 hours at about load average of 40-60 | May 22 01:09 |
| schestowitz | At 10am it cut us off | May 22 01:09 |
| _Hicham_ | tessier : did u secure the website? | May 22 01:09 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: he did | May 22 01:09 |
| _Hicham_ | I heard that untangle is a good solution | May 22 01:10 |
| schestowitz | I think he's at work now | May 22 01:10 |
| schestowitz | Let's not bother him | May 22 01:10 |
| _Hicham_ | ok | May 22 01:10 |
| schestowitz | A month from now I'll resume Comes. That'll be big impact, possible FPs in Digg and Slashdot | May 22 01:11 |
| tessier | _Hicham_: Secure how? That's a big question. | May 22 01:11 |
| schestowitz | Like Feburary and January this year | May 22 01:11 |
| _Hicham_ | tessier : did u hear about untangle? | May 22 01:12 |
| tessier | schestowitz: I don't see the point in attacking the BBC for their botnet thing being potentially illegal. | May 22 01:12 |
| tessier | _Hicham_: No. What/who is it? | May 22 01:12 |
| schestowitz | tessier: it's not me attacking them | May 22 01:12 |
| schestowitz | A lot of lawyers criticised them | May 22 01:12 |
| schestowitz | Back in March | May 22 01:13 |
| _Hicham_ | tessier : http://www.untangle.com/ | May 22 01:13 |
| schestowitz | They needed to apologise in public | May 22 01:13 |
| tessier | Lawyers...meh. It's what the judge says that matters. | May 22 01:13 |
| schestowitz | tessier: they hijacked people's PCs without permission and paid the bad guys for the work, thus encouraging them | May 22 01:13 |
| _Hicham_ | Windows again | May 22 01:16 |
| _Hicham_ | Windows is helping hijackers | May 22 01:16 |
| schestowitz | The BBC knew it was a PR fiasco and the British press was all over them | May 22 01:16 |
| schestowitz | Then they apologised and issued statements of regret IIRC | May 22 01:16 |
| tessier | schestowitz: Did they actually hijack them? Or did they just take control of part of a botnet that was hijacking them? | May 22 01:19 |
| tessier | schestowitz: I would say it really depends a lot on exactly how they got involved. | May 22 01:19 |
| tessier | If they initiated their own independent branch of the botnet then that's a problem. | May 22 01:20 |
| tessier | But if they commandeered a command and control node and watched the rest spread (which would have happened had they been involved or not) I don't really see a problem with it. | May 22 01:20 |
| schestowitz | I think they hired a botmaster | May 22 01:20 |
| tessier | This sort of research needs to be done. | May 22 01:20 |
| schestowitz | As in, they fed the syndicate which does this | May 22 01:20 |
| tessier | And as far as I am concerned these people donated their resources to the botnet. | May 22 01:20 |
| schestowitz | There are other issues | May 22 01:21 |
| tessier | What else can you call the act of running Windows? | May 22 01:21 |
| schestowitz | Worth enumerating | May 22 01:21 |
| schestowitz | Neglect to name the source of the issue, but that's minor | May 22 01:21 |
| schestowitz | There were hundreds of articles about it in March | May 22 01:21 |
| schestowitz | tessier: one study claims hundreds of millions of WInodws boxes are idle zombies | May 22 01:22 |
| schestowitz | 320,000,000 | May 22 01:22 |
| schestowitz | Cerd said 150,000,000 in 2006 | May 22 01:22 |
| schestowitz | Geer said more like 100,000,000 around the same time | May 22 01:23 |
| schestowitz | 320,000,000 is a 2008 figure | May 22 01:23 |
| tessier | Not at all surprising. | May 22 01:23 |
| schestowitz | Shocking --yes | May 22 01:23 |
| schestowitz | It would inciate panic | May 22 01:23 |
| schestowitz | Had people known this better | May 22 01:23 |
| schestowitz | 3 respectable sources | May 22 01:23 |
| schestowitz | Secunia (2008, around december): 99% of Windows is ripe for hijacking | May 22 01:24 |
| schestowitz | As in, not fully patched | May 22 01:24 |
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| schestowitz | The big 2008 remote access vuln cost a lot. All versions affected, silent hijacking, no user intervention. | May 22 01:25 |
| schestowitz | Conficker was one symptom among more | May 22 01:25 |
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| schestowitz | Anyway, about the BBC, it's the tip of the iceberg | May 22 01:26 |
| schestowitz | Going back to 2006 when they swapped staff with Microsoft and blocked Linux, said only 600 people in the UK use Linux (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1), and so on... you'd get the picture given more context | May 22 01:27 |
| schestowitz | Ashley Highfield (BBC chief at the time... now... Microsoft employee!): ""We have 17.1 million users of bbc.co.uk in the UK and, as far as our server logs can make out, 5 per cent of those [use Macs] and around 400 to 600 are Linux users." | May 22 01:28 |
| tessier | So far nothing has cost anyone so much that anyone really gave a care. | May 22 01:30 |
| tessier | You know my favorite vulnerability? VOIP vulnerabilities. | May 22 01:30 |
| tessier | Because when someone gets into your PRI and makes international calls it COSTS BIG TIME. | May 22 01:31 |
| tessier | And you lock that shit down. | May 22 01:31 |
| tessier | I know someone who got a $100,000 bill that way. | May 22 01:31 |
| schestowitz | Did you hear about Asterisk? | May 22 01:31 |
| schestowitz | It got exploited briefly | May 22 01:31 |
| schestowitz | IIRC the FBI stepped in | May 22 01:31 |
| schestowitz | About 3 months ago | May 22 01:31 |
| schestowitz | At the time, the latest version was already secure, so they needed to prod people so that they upgrade | May 22 01:32 |
| _Hicham_ | gn | May 22 01:34 |
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| neonfloss | http://www.blogpirate.org/2009/05/22/wikipedia-to-adopt-creative-commons-license/ | May 22 01:34 |
| schestowitz | neonfloss: thanks, added | May 22 01:35 |
| tacone | uh | May 22 01:35 |
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| tessier | I heard. | May 22 01:36 |
| neonfloss | added? | May 22 01:37 |
| tessier | .004% Linux desktop market share in .uk! Go team! | May 22 01:37 |
| schestowitz | :-( | May 22 01:37 |
| schestowitz | Preinstalls of Linux are 3% here | May 22 01:37 |
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| tessier | I bet that is an old figure. Netbooks have changed things. | May 22 01:38 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 22 01:38 |
| schestowitz | And I don't buy preinstalled | May 22 01:38 |
| schestowitz | I get empty HDD so that I choose my own distro | May 22 01:38 |
| schestowitz | I currently have 3 Ubuntus and 1 Mandriva | May 22 01:38 |
| schestowitz | At the clusters it's all Fedora | May 22 01:38 |
| tessier | Tonight I may be installing Linux over an XP laptop. | May 22 01:40 |
| tessier | That's one more license MS will continue to count and one Linux install that won't be counted. | May 22 01:40 |
| schestowitz | Dual-boots mess the numbers | May 22 01:40 |
| schestowitz | At the faculty all PCs are set up with dual | May 22 01:41 |
| schestowitz | IPs count as Windows | May 22 01:41 |
| neonfloss | schestowitz, do you think software piracy is hurting open source software? | May 22 01:43 |
| schestowitz | The larger deployments are in places like brazl BTW | May 22 01:43 |
| schestowitz | With market share of maybe >50% for purchased PCs and installed based of around 10% | May 22 01:44 |
| tessier | neonfloss: I think it is. It removes one of the many incentives to use FOSS. | May 22 01:44 |
| schestowitz | Some people replace Linux with counterfeited Windows | May 22 01:44 |
| schestowitz | But many stay with GNU/Linux. People from Brazil say so and Microsoft's leakes Comes docs concur | May 22 01:44 |
| neonfloss | tessier, true | May 22 01:44 |
| tessier | It was very hard to get people interested in Linux in Vietnam | May 22 01:44 |
| tessier | There are CD shops there where you can go buy a copy of anything you want for $1 | May 22 01:45 |
| neonfloss | tessier, but I only found out about FOSS through pirating. now I dont pirate software anymore | May 22 01:45 |
| schestowitz | Had Microsoft charged for Linux in Brazil, it would have IBM take over Brazil's computing | May 22 01:45 |
| schestowitz | *Charged for Windows | May 22 01:45 |
| schestowitz | tessier: did you see the charity story? | May 22 01:45 |
| schestowitz | MS gets boycotted | May 22 01:45 |
| schestowitz | It wants money | May 22 01:45 |
| schestowitz | From poor charities amid economic slump. it was in the news. Suddenly Redmond is not content with 'free' Windows. | May 22 01:46 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft charity crackdown spurs boycott < http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=63B8D6DC-1A64-6A71-CE239976114D2137 > | May 22 01:47 |
| tessier | No, I didn't. Cool. | May 22 01:48 |
| tessier | A friend of mine just received a letter from the BSA for his company. | May 22 01:48 |
| tessier | He has been working on moving to Linux for a few years. This might hasten it. But they need some CAD software etc. | May 22 01:48 |
| schestowitz | Wine? | May 22 01:49 |
| schestowitz | It got a lot better | May 22 01:49 |
| schestowitz | Google works on it too. It's in its interest. | May 22 01:49 |
| tessier | Wine won't help with their illegal copies of Solidworks. | May 22 01:50 |
| tessier | It's not just windows but the apps themselves they have to get licensed. | May 22 01:50 |
| tessier | I gotta head home. I'm at the office now. ttyl | May 22 01:50 |
| schestowitz | Thanks | May 22 01:53 |
| schestowitz | Just one thing | May 22 01:53 |
| schestowitz | See this: http://www.firmenpresse.de/pressrelease1816.html | May 22 01:53 |
| schestowitz | It's recent and the numbers are staggering | May 22 01:53 |
| schestowitz | Huge number of Linux users in Europe use it | May 22 01:54 |
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| oiaohm | http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=2845 MS needs some new lawyers. | May 22 02:41 |
| schestowitz | Why does zdnet still use p-ids? | May 22 02:42 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, I saw this one earlier | May 22 02:42 |
| schestowitz | Was gonna mention it tomorrow | May 22 02:42 |
| schestowitz | Now I'll do some daily links. Joy! | May 22 02:42 |
| schestowitz | BTW, BN runs in a VM now | May 22 02:42 |
| schestowitz | tessier moved it to a containment | May 22 02:43 |
| tacone | nice | May 22 02:44 |
| oiaohm | http://microsoftontheissues.com/cs/blogs/mscorp/archive/2009/05/21/why-hold-a-hearing-in-the-eu-if-key-decision-makers-are-unable-to-attend.aspx The MS url. | May 22 02:44 |
| oiaohm | why should a court case be allowed to work as advertisement. | May 22 02:45 |
| oiaohm | And why should a court case be run to the time line of the defendant. | May 22 02:45 |
| oiaohm | Bad timing stiff. | May 22 02:45 |
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| schestowitz | chttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o | May 22 03:12 |
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| chips_b_malroy | Roy are you still up? | May 22 03:52 |
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| chips_b_malroy | Ok, its different time on the other side of the pond. Still, got some information 4 u on the ddos. I emailed it to Goblin, but it needs to be PM to you. Not for a public log. And Goblin is not too good about checking his email. | May 22 03:55 |
| chips_b_malroy | there are two emails I sent goblin, he needs both | May 22 04:00 |
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| schestowitz | I'm here | May 22 04:01 |
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| oiaohm | http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/05/microsoft-blocks-messenger-in-us-embargoed-countries.ars This is something nasty. | May 22 04:27 |
| so, I wonder what "mal roy" has to say. | May 22 04:29 | |
| that can't be said in public. hmph. | May 22 04:29 | |
| ohm, this is not the first time M$ has engaged in censorship http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/182515 | May 22 04:30 | |
| oiaohm | Difference here is this one is a trade embargoed. Question is could this ever apply to activation servers | May 22 04:32 |
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| You do not know if M$ is only applying this lame "trade" embargo. It is likely they apply all forms of censorship to all accounts. | May 22 04:33 | |
| oiaohm | The problem I have if what MS is doing here USA goverment takes as what it is allowed to do. How bad will it end up. Lot of USA trade embargos have not been applied on the web. | May 22 04:38 |
| oiaohm | Censorship is 1 thing. Distrubting peoples means to do business is something else. | May 22 04:38 |
| M$ censored Truthout for political reasons and refused to listen to the wishes of either Truthout or their customers using the mail services M$ owns. | May 22 04:40 | |
| It is not surprising that they use US laws as an excuse to break yet more communications. | May 22 04:40 | |
| oiaohm | I am more worried if USA goverment starts trying to apply that against Non MS. | May 22 04:41 |
| It would be a shame if they forced their idiotic decision on all software companies. | May 22 04:41 | |
| Free software faces all sorts of restrictions, and has faced even more in the past. | May 22 04:42 | |
| oiaohm | Exactly why I called it something nasty. | May 22 04:42 |
| Encryption export restrictions, DeCSS bans and other idiotic laws have all harmed both free and non free software makers | May 22 04:42 | |
| ESR predicted M$ would try to claim free software is terrorism. | May 22 04:43 | |
| I think they will fail before they screw things up too badly. | May 22 04:44 | |
| oiaohm | Some of the MS supporters are starting to wake up how much trouble MS is in. | May 22 04:45 |
| export restrictions on encryption, for example, were lifted long ago after the US government realized that it only harmed US interests. | May 22 04:45 | |
| It is about time that M$ people realized that non free software is a dead end. | May 22 04:46 | |
| The less money M$ has, the less trouble they will be able to make. Their failure can not come soon enough. | May 22 04:46 | |
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| oiaohm | There still would be too soon. | May 22 05:12 |
| oiaohm | twitter: if the process of migration a way from MS products is not sorted out there failure could cause major chaos. | May 22 05:12 |
| Past and continued use of M$ crap has created more trouble than use of any free software. | May 22 05:13 | |
| I think 8 years of XP failure is more than enough and that clear migration paths exist. | May 22 05:14 | |
| M$ has tried to block those paths with changes in both Windows and file formats, but Vista failed. Now is a better time to migrate out than ever. | May 22 05:15 | |
| and migration to GNU/Linux is easier than Vista/Windows7 migration. | May 22 05:15 | |
| The Pooch has been screwed. | May 22 05:15 | |
| Roy is doing a nice job collecting Rise of GNU/Linux Desktop stories | May 22 05:18 | |
| These are good news for everyone. | May 22 05:19 | |
| oiaohm | There are still gaps. | May 22 05:23 |
| oiaohm | Some of it is working out how to get funding into the gaps. | May 22 05:23 |
| oiaohm | More migrations more funding it to weak areas as well. | May 22 05:24 |
| There are very few categories of workers who actually need Winblows. The time to move the majority is now. | May 22 05:24 | |
| oiaohm | Accountany software in some countries is lacking. | May 22 05:24 |
| The larger the community is, the quicker problems get solved. | May 22 05:24 | |
| oiaohm | Video production tools and some audio tools still need work. | May 22 05:25 |
| GNU Cash is a good accounting package and older stuff, like PeachTree probably works better under Wine than Window anyway. | May 22 05:25 | |
| oiaohm | GNU Cash is not configured for everywhere. | May 22 05:26 |
| oiaohm | There are gaps. | May 22 05:26 |
| Cinerella and blender are professional grade video media tools. | May 22 05:26 | |
| oiaohm | Blender has funding. | May 22 05:26 |
| oiaohm | Its making good progress. | May 22 05:26 |
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| Hollywood is a big user of GNU/Linux already, so that "gap" in a minority use area is actually filled in both senses | May 22 05:27 | |
| oiaohm | Cinerella. They really need to copy blender lead and run a like a move create of there own. | May 22 05:27 |
| oiaohm | There are a few workflow issues in it. | May 22 05:27 |
| GNU Cash can be configured for everyone a lot easier than non free software. | May 22 05:28 | |
| The movie editing issues are of little concern to the vast majority of users and programs like Kino meet their needs. | May 22 05:28 | |
| oiaohm | twitter: template issue with GNU Cash. | May 22 05:28 |
| Those who really care and need to make professional grade videos can learn the expert tools. | May 22 05:29 | |
| oiaohm | Professional grade needs good workflow. | May 22 05:29 |
| oiaohm | Each blender movie has found defects in its workflow and put action in place to fix it. | May 22 05:29 |
| What would you have people use, Ohm? | May 22 05:30 | |
| oiaohm | Basically a bit more focus on QA could lift a lot of Open Source programs up. | May 22 05:30 |
| oiaohm | And a bit more focus on making sure of market coverage. | May 22 05:31 |
| oiaohm | Gaps most are not massive. | May 22 05:31 |
| oiaohm | But those gaps can cause people who are starting out trouble. | May 22 05:31 |
| oiaohm | Blenders having to replace the complete interface system to fix a workflow problem was massive. | May 22 05:32 |
| I don't think any of the problems you mention are a real barrier to IT roll outs of free software, or any excuse to roll out Vista 7 instead. | May 22 05:33 | |
| Successful deployments of GNU/Linux right here in Redmond, WA attest to free software being more than ready. | May 22 05:33 | |
| oiaohm | Its basically the less painful the migration is the more who will do it. | May 22 05:34 |
| GNU/Linux is far less painful than Vista or Windows 7 | May 22 05:35 | |
| oiaohm | Migration to Windows 7 is not what you are going to be painless. | May 22 05:35 |
| oiaohm | So a lot will try staying with XP as long as possiable. | May 22 05:35 |
| sticking to XP is impossible | May 22 05:35 | |
| plans need to be laid now to avoid Vista chaos | May 22 05:36 | |
| oiaohm | Up until 2 years ago I was still finding windows 3.11 in places. | May 22 05:36 |
| oiaohm | Ways for businesses to have what they need painless as able need to be done. | May 22 05:37 |
| oiaohm | Linux servers appearing in the small business market will be a help. | May 22 05:37 |
| Sticking with Windows is as painful as computing can be. | May 22 05:38 | |
| oiaohm | There is worse. | May 22 05:38 |
| oiaohm | Most painful I know is old dos based points of sale. | May 22 05:39 |
| oiaohm | Yes some businesses still use them. | May 22 05:39 |
| dosbox could fix their hardware problems | May 22 05:40 | |
| even they are good candidates for free software migration | May 22 05:40 | |
| M$ stabbed them in the back a decade ago | May 22 05:40 | |
| oiaohm | Normally closed source dos with no specs on fileformat. | May 22 05:41 |
| oiaohm | So migration to new bit of software is fun. | May 22 05:41 |
| oiaohm | Emulation is not a solution you really want to use unless you have to twitter. | May 22 05:42 |
| sounds like most games and dosbox deals with them better than Vista will | May 22 05:42 | |
| you are right, it would be better to ask IBM for a nice system instead | May 22 05:42 | |
| like this http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Lowes,+redmond+washington&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,52.558594&ie=UTF8&ei=sS4WSqbVLYjqjQOk1KDwCw&sig2=DBgtzJRD5dWLJ-v1uIbFnw&cd=1&cid=47630940,-122182066,6463291867562539280&li=lmd&ll=47.655675,-122.14016&spn=0.101753,0.214233&z=12 | May 22 05:42 | |
| I wonder how many M$ employees have used GNU/Linux in that store | May 22 05:43 | |
| They seem to have moved rather well to an all GNU/Linux environment what 8 years ago? | May 22 05:43 | |
| oiaohm | There migration was speed over many years. | May 22 05:44 |
| oiaohm | They did not convert everyone at once. | May 22 05:44 |
| So? The solution will work for anyone. | May 22 05:44 | |
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| oiaohm | To a point. | May 22 05:44 |
| Every computer in the store is not GNU/Linux. | May 22 05:44 | |
| Go look for yourself. | May 22 05:45 | |
| oiaohm | IBM had the resources to write any software they required to make it work. | May 22 05:45 |
| Employees will even let you pull up an xterm and play for a while. | May 22 05:45 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: what computer store ever sells computers with Linux on them btw, aside from enterprise class systems | May 22 05:45 |
| Target. | May 22 05:45 | |
| oiaohm | So they could close all the gaps they had themselfs twitter. | May 22 05:45 |
| go buy a EEE PC and give it to your 4 year old. | May 22 05:46 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: IBM is too busy peddling AIX on their PPC workstations | May 22 05:46 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: I thought most EEEs moved on to Windoze now | May 22 05:46 |
| Not the ones that people buy, rover | May 22 05:46 | |
| Asus suffered a big revenue drop on that mistake. | May 22 05:47 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: I remember a point when there were plenty of Linux netbooks and even computers like GreenPC as well as that "G OS" thing but they disapeared from shelves once XP machines flooded the outlets | May 22 05:47 |
| oiaohm | All EEE are supported to run Linux or Windows. Windows version still has a Linux fast start option. | May 22 05:47 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: so thats once exception, but it is far from the nomr sadly | May 22 05:47 |
| The story of what M$ did to GNU/Linux (your GOS) at Walmart is well covered by anti-trust documents and BN, rover. | May 22 05:48 | |
| It's been a money loser for retailers. | May 22 05:48 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: but it still doesn't make a difference how much they lost, its gone from shelves now | May 22 05:48 |
| oiaohm | Linux has not really lost. | May 22 05:48 |
| it may not matter to you or M$, but money losses matter to retailers. | May 22 05:49 | |
| oiaohm | MS is really make a loss on every netbook with XP on. | May 22 05:49 |
| they are not going to make the same mistakes | May 22 05:49 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: the only glimmer of hope is that Dell is once more planning to offer the option to get Ubuntu v8.04 for their computers through their online retail | May 22 05:49 |
| oiaohm | Most people notice the trial version of Office on them. | May 22 05:49 |
| no Vista 7 channel stuffing for the survivors | May 22 05:49 | |
| oiaohm | That MS pays the OEM more than what the OEM pays for XP. | May 22 05:50 |
| computer stores will have to adapt to the GNU reality or they will fail. | May 22 05:50 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: but M$ still makes it back through their Office Suite | May 22 05:50 |
| oiaohm | Not really. | May 22 05:50 |
| *tomsdale has quit ("No Ping reply in 90 seconds.") | May 22 05:50 | |
| M$ can't keep giving software and bribes away forever | May 22 05:50 | |
| they are losing their ass | May 22 05:50 | |
| oiaohm | MS down 30+ percent of there income did you not ask how that could happen. | May 22 05:51 |
| going into debt. | May 22 05:51 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: they can if people plan on purchasing updates for their Office software among other things | May 22 05:51 |
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| oiaohm | Thinking that redhat and other companies are up. | May 22 05:51 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: its like the video game console or printer market | May 22 05:51 |
| tacone | http://www.linux-magazine.com/online/news/microsoft_patent_more_money_for_less_functions | May 22 05:51 |
| people hate the new office, it's a bigger failure than Vista | May 22 05:51 | |
| tacone | pretty nice | May 22 05:51 |
| oiaohm | There really was not a downturn in most of the software world. | May 22 05:51 |
| M$ is swirling down the toilet | May 22 05:52 | |
| oiaohm | The complete downturn MS has is self caused. | May 22 05:52 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: people still buy new M$ Office though for the added functions and the thought that they need to keep up to state with "standardized" formats of the "business world" | May 22 05:52 |
| yes, but loss of large clients like big dumb banks and retail partners make their downturn even worse, hopeless even. | May 22 05:53 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: don't sit back and gloat any small setback from M$, its still a really large company that can bounce back within years | May 22 05:53 |
| You live in a different world from me Rover | May 22 05:53 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: don't you learn anything from Sun Tzu? | May 22 05:53 |
| oiaohm | Rover have you seen how many deparment MS has given up. | May 22 05:53 |
| oiaohm | Linux is doing Sun Tzu | May 22 05:53 |
| oiaohm | Its no the ammount of land you hold its the tatical importance. | May 22 05:54 |
| I see a big dumb company that can't change taking on debt and firing people | May 22 05:54 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: but twitter seems to forget one: " "Never underestimate your opponent." | May 22 05:54 |
| oiaohm | I have not. | May 22 05:54 |
| oiaohm | How do you increase the price of your OS. When the OS you are competign with is free. | May 22 05:54 |
| I use Windows every day. My estimation of M$'s fate is optimistic if anything. | May 22 05:55 | |
| oiaohm | You have to be way better right. | May 22 05:55 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: so they shaved off a couple of departments. IBM shut down their whole entire PC building subsidiary and sold off the remaining trademarks like "ThinkPad." Now they are back in enterprise and stronger than ever | May 22 05:55 |
| oiaohm | MS is not so the netbook market OS price is locked at bugger all. | May 22 05:55 |
| M$ has no such fallbacks | May 22 05:55 | |
| oiaohm | IBM did more than shaved a few departments. | May 22 05:55 |
| none that make any money | May 22 05:55 | |
| oiaohm | Large ammount of IBM income comes from renting buildings. | May 22 05:56 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: true they did make an overhaul of their entire corporate foolosophy and makeup | May 22 05:56 |
| oiaohm | IBM had factories to move there head offices into. | May 22 05:56 |
| M$ is incapable of such things | May 22 05:56 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: yes they are, they have buildings around the world | May 22 05:56 |
| oiaohm | So they could rent there head offices for great income. | May 22 05:56 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: they can sell off portions of their campus | May 22 05:56 |
| Ha | May 22 05:57 | |
| oiaohm | MS has builds but they lack the extras to move thre offices. | May 22 05:57 |
| There's a real estate glut up here, Rover. | May 22 05:57 | |
| oiaohm | You still need the space. | May 22 05:57 |
| oiaohm | IBM came back stronger but its nothing like it was. | May 22 05:57 |
| Maybe M$ can put a toll house on their new bridge and charge more money for their private mall. | May 22 05:57 | |
| lol | May 22 05:57 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: and at any moment it can turn around because 0bama's adminstration is enable the treasuring to allow banks to continue throwing money at realestate, but thats another issue entirely | May 22 05:58 |
| oiaohm | Microsoft if it lives threw the same conversion it will be nothing like it was. | May 22 05:58 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: it certainly won't but it can still dominate business apps | May 22 05:58 |
| If M$ becomes a free software company, everyone will be happy. | May 22 05:58 | |
| oiaohm | IBM Orcale NAS builder are going to come after MS SBS. | May 22 05:58 |
| But they won't be able to keep up the monopoly rents in any case | May 22 05:58 | |
| oiaohm | With intergrated solutions. | May 22 05:58 |
| oiaohm | Remember intergrated solutions come with all the business apps most businesses need without needing to pay MS a cent. | May 22 05:59 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: Oracle has problems of its own with the potential of their newly aquired MySQL to be forked to pieces | May 22 05:59 |
| competing free software service providers are better for everyone than M$'s boxed crap | May 22 05:59 | |
| oiaohm | Oracle intergrated solutions don't depend on Mysql. | May 22 05:59 |
| Oracle's problems are of no concern to anyone besides Oracle. | May 22 05:59 | |
| MySQL will survive in any case. | May 22 06:00 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: they need some sort of repo standard to update by | May 22 06:00 |
| oiaohm | Mysql is nothing more than a minor annonacye to a company Oracles size. | May 22 06:00 |
| oiaohm | Oracle is way bigger than MS. | May 22 06:00 |
| oiaohm | If oracle stoped aquiring companies for 3 years they would have enough money in the aquiring company fund to by MS out. | May 22 06:00 |
| This has been interesting, but there's nothing new here. Good night. | May 22 06:01 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | ciao | May 22 06:01 |
| oiaohm | Catch you around twitter. | May 22 06:01 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: I doubt it M$'s market cap is $230 billion | May 22 06:01 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | Oracle is 4.1 billion | May 22 06:02 |
| oiaohm | Ok 4 years. | May 22 06:02 |
| oiaohm | Oracle spends 60 billion a year on company aquirements. | May 22 06:02 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: M$ can probably do the same and wind up a behemouth that would make them an easier target for anti-trust legislation | May 22 06:03 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | but they rather spend on killing the source instead | May 22 06:03 |
| oiaohm | Oracle market cap does not show its true value. | May 22 06:03 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: same could have been said about Sun Micro, and look what happened to them | May 22 06:04 |
| oiaohm | Sun Mirco was not causing there market cap to be low by aquiring companies. | May 22 06:04 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: assets don't mater when you are measuring publicly traded value | May 22 06:04 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: its what percentage of capital a company holds that translates to earnings | May 22 06:05 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: perhaps Commodore Business Machines could be still around today if that weren't the case | May 22 06:06 |
| oiaohm | So far this year Orcale has aquired 4 companies. | May 22 06:06 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: but that will just translate to growing their marketshare, while on the flip end it negatively impacts their earnings and thus dividends to shareholders | May 22 06:06 |
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| oiaohm | Thing is Oracle dividends don't change. | May 22 06:07 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: and that is only the case if whatever they purchase is lucrative | May 22 06:07 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: if its not then its just a lose leader | May 22 06:07 |
| oiaohm | Due to these aquires if anything they grow. | May 22 06:07 |
| oiaohm | They don't have debt. | May 22 06:07 |
| oiaohm | Look are orcale numbers. | May 22 06:08 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: they probably have shown there latest fiscal books | May 22 06:08 |
| oiaohm | Orcale 2002 huge ammounts of money nothing much to do with it. So started buying. | May 22 06:08 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: I hope everything that Oracle aquired from Sun and others translates to good revenue not only for the share's sake but also for everyone working there | May 22 06:08 |
| oiaohm | And has not stoped since. | May 22 06:08 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: they are buying because they hope to corner the datacenter and enterprise software market | May 22 06:09 |
| oiaohm | That complete time there return to shareholders has grown. | May 22 06:09 |
| oiaohm | Exactly | May 22 06:09 |
| oiaohm | They are buy and growing there income Carl_Rover2k12 | May 22 06:09 |
| oiaohm | The buying is hiding how much it has grown. | May 22 06:10 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: Oracle still hasn't reached the value they had in 2000-2001 though | May 22 06:10 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: or they are buying in a race of time to aquire potentially good assets for a cheap price because they are afraid what they have now may become obsolete | May 22 06:10 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | or they just want to no longer worry about paying licensing fees for their Java based apps too | May 22 06:11 |
| oiaohm | Sun aquirement Orcale expects to give shareholders slightly higher returns. | May 22 06:11 |
| oiaohm | With compete to end to end solutions. | May 22 06:12 |
| oiaohm | Orcale need someone with production plants. | May 22 06:12 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: but it means much more in creating new markets for Oracle to get into, thus growing their marketshare. Such rapid buy overs only hype shares for a brief amount of time before the expenses shown make them plumet. | May 22 06:12 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: production plants for what? | May 22 06:13 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: running your own production plants is a really expensive endeavor unless you corner the market like Intel | May 22 06:13 |
| oiaohm | Production servers with there software already installed sold to customer as a complete item. | May 22 06:13 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: that can be done cheaper by licencing the schematics to a 3rd party | May 22 06:14 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: why else has AMD spun off their foundries | May 22 06:14 |
| oiaohm | AMD had no option on spinning off there foundries. | May 22 06:15 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: also if they wanted foundries for chips in the US they could just contract IBM to help forge them, IBM's plants are some of the most advanced in the world | May 22 06:15 |
| oiaohm | IBM and Orcale compete directly with each other. | May 22 06:15 |
| oiaohm | In particular markets. | May 22 06:15 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: so then who's option was it, the shareholders, as far as I can tell all publically traded companies have to eventually answer to shareholders | May 22 06:15 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: so what if they compete, IBM would know a lucrative deal if they came across one and it would prevent them from getting any anti-trust flac | May 22 06:16 |
| oiaohm | Sun was not making a lose when Orcale aquired them either. | May 22 06:18 |
| oiaohm | Orcale does not aquire loss making companies. | May 22 06:18 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: Sun wasn't? http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090428/bs_nm/us_sunmicro | May 22 06:18 |
| oiaohm | Get the brake down of parts Orcale was interested in. Customers had backed off SUN due to fear not due to poor products. One of those customers was Orcale themselves. | May 22 06:22 |
| oiaohm | You do expect customers to back off a company aiming to be aquired. | May 22 06:23 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: fair enough, but lets take a look at their outlook prior to announcement of wanting to be aquired: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/31/technology/companies/31sun.html?n=Top/News/Business/Companies/Sun%20Microsystems%20Inc. | May 22 06:26 |
| oiaohm | Remember Orcale first attempted to just aquire the hardware side. | May 22 06:27 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: which was the only part showing any growth | May 22 06:27 |
| oiaohm | Exactly. | May 22 06:27 |
| oiaohm | That was the only bit Orcale wanted. | May 22 06:27 |
| oiaohm | Its bit like a junk box with something you know is valueable to your company. | May 22 06:28 |
| oiaohm | And person will not sell you the valueable item unless you take the box. | May 22 06:28 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: hopefully Oracle embraces Solaris though, its a great OS despite the existence of Linux | May 22 06:29 |
| oiaohm | Mysql was no interest to Orcale so what ever happen will not worrying them too much. | May 22 06:29 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: but its still a problem for those who use Sun software and have become dependent on it for their repo | May 22 06:30 |
| _boo_ | does anyone know what is gonna happen with sun developers? | May 22 06:30 |
| oiaohm | Many ideas exist. | May 22 06:30 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | _boo_: which Sun developers, you got the software and hardware ones | May 22 06:30 |
| _boo_ | they are worried | May 22 06:30 |
| oiaohm | Orcale might spin off a few foundations. | May 22 06:30 |
| _boo_ | Carl_Rover2k12, software | May 22 06:30 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | _boo_: well all the job cuts or layoffs probably already occured by now | May 22 06:30 |
| _boo_ | so no more cuts? | May 22 06:31 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | _boo_: not sure | May 22 06:31 |
| _boo_ | i'm not sure that cuts already were performed | May 22 06:31 |
| oiaohm | Sun also had basically alreadly fire all there market department. | May 22 06:31 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | _boo_: if more do happen, it will be for entirely new reasons | May 22 06:31 |
| oiaohm | So there sales being down before aquirement was to be expected. | May 22 06:31 |
| _boo_ | i care only about software developers in sun | May 22 06:32 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: their marketing didn't do most of the sales for Sun, it was their technical service team that did | May 22 06:32 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: have you seen a Sun commercial recently? | May 22 06:32 |
| oiaohm | Sun had cleared lot of overlapping staff. | May 22 06:33 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | _boo_: Oracle's cheif executive did outline Solaris and Java one of the main outlying reasons for their aqusition: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/21/technology/companies/21sun.html even though their Ultra-SPARC hardware was the one really bringing in the earnings. | May 22 06:33 |
| oiaohm | How the technical service team upsells was planed. | May 22 06:33 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: well Sun did sell most of their stuff to their existing customers | May 22 06:34 |
| *MinceR_ is now known as MinceR | May 22 06:34 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: and more were created through word of mouth then anything else | May 22 06:34 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | created= gotten | May 22 06:35 |
| oiaohm | Also any ideas how mcuh of Orcales stack of software depends on java. | May 22 06:35 |
| oiaohm | You are talking around 80 percent of Orcale sales have something java in it. | May 22 06:36 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: I heard most of their datatel relied on Java | May 22 06:36 |
| _boo_ | thanks, Carl_Rover2k12 | May 22 06:36 |
| oiaohm | So that going to someone hostile to them could be a major problem. | May 22 06:36 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: yep | May 22 06:36 |
| oiaohm | Sun was a tatical and profitable aquirement if managed right. | May 22 06:36 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: Sun was pretty leanient on software licensing because they relied more on hardware sales | May 22 06:37 |
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| Carl_Rover2k12 | or at least that is how their formers execs thought | May 22 06:37 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | they figured their software would attract customers to their hardware | May 22 06:37 |
| oiaohm | Orcale is able to recover the cost of buying sun from suns income in about 3 years. | May 22 06:38 |
| oiaohm | If they can manage it right. | May 22 06:38 |
| oiaohm | Orcale will be doing both. Using there software to attract hardware sales and using hardware sales to attact software sales. | May 22 06:39 |
| oiaohm | Like IBM does now. | May 22 06:39 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: don't get me wrong I like much of how Sun ran stuff, it helped grow innovation not only within their product line but also benefited other developers through joint projects with the open source community. Unfortunately, the shareholders didn't | May 22 06:39 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: but they will have to license the software in such a way that will please shareholders, but it won't be good for open source imo | May 22 06:40 |
| oiaohm | Orcale also runs some joint projects with the open source community. | May 22 06:40 |
| oiaohm | They have just been more blanced about it. | May 22 06:40 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: but they may attach more stringent TOS aggrements and not follow GPL guidelines like IBM | May 22 06:41 |
| oiaohm | Orcale follows the licences to the letter. | May 22 06:41 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: they will surely try to squash any forks of their software if they can't aquire it into their own | May 22 06:41 |
| oiaohm | Not always. | May 22 06:42 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: but will they now with all these new assets, they didn't have to worry as much before with a lighter load | May 22 06:42 |
| oiaohm | Orcale has had projects they had before forked away from them. | May 22 06:42 |
| oiaohm | They class it as the nature of Open Source. | May 22 06:42 |
| oiaohm | Orcale point of view if you don't give customer what they want and the program is open source expect it forked away from you. | May 22 06:44 |
| oiaohm | People don't fork something normally unless they are unhappy with it for some reason. | May 22 06:45 |
| _boo_ | for good reason | May 22 06:45 |
| oiaohm | Orcale and Cisco systems have lots in common. They don't try to kill invention instead try to support it. In the hope that they can harvest useful bits to sell to customers. | May 22 06:47 |
| oiaohm | Orcale could have killed of Mysql years ago if they had wanted to. | May 22 06:48 |
| oiaohm | Orcale had control of key bits of software Mysql depended on to operate. | May 22 06:48 |
| _boo_ | isn't mysql still used? | May 22 06:48 |
| oiaohm | mysql is still being used. | May 22 06:49 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: and now MySQL maybe forked again and one of the forks may have a considerable following because one of the former lead developers from the original is behind it | May 22 06:50 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: and now since Oracle presides over the entire MySQL language, they may look at things a bit differently with preasure from their shareholders | May 22 06:51 |
| oiaohm | Never know with orcale they might aquire the lead developer back. | May 22 06:52 |
| oiaohm | We will find out more after the transfer of operation. | May 22 06:53 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: you seem to be very optimistic, do you have shares in Oracle? | May 22 06:53 |
| oiaohm | I know the history Carl_Rover2k12 I don't have shared. | May 22 06:53 |
| oiaohm | Mysql and Orcale have shared some backend parts. | May 22 06:53 |
| oiaohm | So there lead developers talking to each other has been nothing strange when there are problems in the back end. | May 22 06:54 |
| oiaohm | Its never been what you call hostile releationship. | May 22 06:55 |
| oiaohm | Oracle history of aquired companies says they will keep exactly what they are doing under wraps until they are ready to do it. | May 22 06:56 |
| oiaohm | Some of that history includes spinning parts they don't want into foundations. | May 22 06:57 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: I hope you are right, with your knowedge why aren't you investing in Oracle then? | May 22 06:57 |
| oiaohm | Tax | May 22 06:57 |
| oiaohm | I have other investments that give me about the same return without tax bill. | May 22 06:58 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: you hedge? | May 22 07:00 |
| oiaohm | I am Australian not USA. | May 22 07:02 |
| oiaohm | Investing the the USA market I don't get any tax offsets to the income so have to pay ful tax on it. | May 22 07:02 |
| oiaohm | Just say warped Australian tax laws Carl_Rover2k12 | May 22 07:04 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: btw, did those website blacklisting laws get shot down yet? | May 22 07:05 |
| oiaohm | One minor issue it was not a new law to force them being applied. | May 22 07:06 |
| oiaohm | It was just a policy change. | May 22 07:06 |
| oiaohm | So far policy has not been approved. | May 22 07:06 |
| oiaohm | We have this http://www.acma.gov.au | May 22 07:07 |
| oiaohm | You use basically any form of electronic comumication you come under there control. | May 22 07:07 |
| oiaohm | They have had the power to enforce censorship under law for a long time. | May 22 07:08 |
| oiaohm | http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_90102 Yes they do have the power to shut down any site in Australia hosting the content they were ment to be blacklisting. | May 22 07:10 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: thats pretty alien concept to us Uhmericans, the FTC can only shutdown media if it is prooven that it has broken any false advertising guidelines (which are rather loose) or is prooven to be outright fraudulent. And that only occurs if enough complaints are submited | May 22 07:13 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: I guess there are pros and cons to everything | May 22 07:13 |
| oiaohm | acma has blacklisted some pritty stupid things over time. | May 22 07:14 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: yea, I read about a Dentist's site being blacklisted because someone hijacked it to secretly post a childporn link in one of the urls. | May 22 07:15 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: and repealing a blacklist is very hard if not impossible right? | May 22 07:15 |
| oiaohm | Problem is the blacklist is secret. | May 22 07:16 |
| oiaohm | If you can work out you are on it. | May 22 07:16 |
| oiaohm | Appealing it is simple. | May 22 07:16 |
| oiaohm | And getting self removed is simple. | May 22 07:16 |
| oiaohm | They don't even bother emailing the site admin to tell the site admin they have been blacklisted. | May 22 07:17 |
| oiaohm | This is what has so many up in arms. | May 22 07:17 |
| _boo_ | someone gotta crack m$ site and post child porn in there | May 22 07:18 |
| oiaohm | Policy would have been good if they had something like a site that you could punch in a URL and find out if its black listed or not. | May 22 07:21 |
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| oiaohm | No need to really publish the complete blacklist but people running sites kinda need to know when they have been black listed incase the blacklisting is invalid. | May 22 07:21 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: thats certainly a big problem, ecspecially for a government agency that is supposed to be within a democracy | May 22 07:22 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: but sometimes I got to wonder if a reprisentative in most nations is now only to entitled to reprisent those who pay more to them | May 22 07:22 |
| oiaohm | http://www.asio.gov.au/ are | May 22 07:22 |
| oiaohm | worse they can hold you 7 days without charge. | May 22 07:23 |
| oiaohm | And if they get a judges to sign off every 7 days they could in theory hold you for ever without charge. | May 22 07:23 |
| oiaohm | Only advantage what ever you say in that 7 days cannot be used in a court of law. | May 22 07:24 |
| oiaohm | We don't have bill of rights here. | May 22 07:26 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: so then what exactly does Australia have to ensure personal liberties? | May 22 07:30 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: I guess its more typical for other republics, like in France, that the government provide and protect the liberties, then for the indivisual to feel expected they must always fight for it. | May 22 07:33 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: except what you sited is an example of adversary based appeal upon a prosecution | May 22 07:33 |
| oiaohm | We have anti descrimintation laws. That is about as far as personal liberties protection goes. | May 22 07:35 |
| oiaohm | Basically they would have to treat everyone equally crap. | May 22 07:36 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: except those who have been already prosecuted | May 22 07:38 |
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| oiaohm | All prosecutions can be applead. Due processes have to be followed. Now bending law can land on the side of anti descrimitation very quicky. | May 22 07:40 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: so you are hoping that helps overturn any perminent ban on websites and other mediums? | May 22 07:42 |
| oiaohm | Due process has to be followed so any ban on anything can be applead if you know about it. | May 22 07:45 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: I meant that there should be an appeals process for every action the government may take against an indivisual so long as it is not involving a felony, and with the current anti-discrimination laws in place that the government is obligated to hold a fair trial for anyone | May 22 07:45 |
| oiaohm | anti-discrimination basically sees to it. | May 22 07:46 |
| oiaohm | Because other wise you could not applead or alter any ruling. | May 22 07:47 |
| oiaohm | Law here does not protect privacy. | May 22 07:49 |
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| oiaohm | There are some covering what companyes and the like can handlin in privacy Carl_Rover2k12 But when it comes to investage the defence becomes memory loss. | May 22 07:52 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: so I guess lobbying buys there way into Australian law too | May 22 07:54 |
| oiaohm | To a point. | May 22 07:55 |
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| oiaohm | Regional coding is illegal here under free trade rules of Australia. | May 22 07:55 |
| oiaohm | It also falls under the basic anti descrimitnation laws of Australia. | May 22 07:56 |
| oiaohm | There are limits on how far lobbying can go in australian laws due to the anti descrimintaiton base. | May 22 07:57 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: interesting I guess American law makers can learn a thing or two in combating certain corporate favortism in such a way that doesn't outline specifically targeting them | May 22 07:58 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | but then again it is a doubled edged sword like how you have been telling me before | May 22 08:07 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | anyway I should probably get some sleep now | May 22 08:07 |
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| Omar871 | Guys, you gotta check this out: http://tinyurl.com/paara6 | May 22 08:37 |
| oiaohm | Your url is kind broken Omar871 | May 22 09:03 |
| Omar871 | http://www.networkworld.com/cgi-bin/mailto/x.cgi?pagetosend=/export/home/httpd/htdocs/news/2009/052109-ex-microsoftie-free-software-will-kill.html&pagename=/news/2009/052109-ex-microsoftie-free-software-will-kill.html&pageurl=http://www.networkworld. | May 22 09:03 |
| oiaohm | http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/052109-ex-microsoftie-free-software-will-kill.html << This is the link that works. | May 22 09:04 |
| oiaohm | networkworld mailto has always been a trap. | May 22 09:04 |
| schestowitz | Old news... | May 22 09:35 |
| MinceR | geekings | May 22 09:36 |
| schestowitz | I have some good posts to start the day with | May 22 09:41 |
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| uncle_pockets | This thing looks dead...anyone here? | May 22 10:14 |
| MinceR | braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaains | May 22 10:15 |
| uncle_pockets | you selling or giving away for free? | May 22 10:15 |
| uncle_pockets | I see that went right over your pointy head, MinceR..BTW idiotic nym you have.Maked you sound like some kind of dog food or something. | May 22 10:18 |
| uncle_pockets | Makes... | May 22 10:18 |
| uncle_pockets | Oh well this channel is dead....BTW how's the DDoS going? BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa! | May 22 10:18 |
| uncle_pockets | Bye.... | May 22 10:18 |
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| MinceR | good riddance. | May 22 10:19 |
| oiaohm | Sometimes it lucky on IRC that a person its not on the computer next to you. | May 22 10:27 |
| schestowitz | Yeah. | May 22 10:29 |
| schestowitz | I missed it | May 22 10:29 |
| MinceR | indeed | May 22 10:30 |
| oiaohm | http://www.itbusiness.ca/it/client/en/home/news.asp?id=53225 I guess you have seen the netbook shipping with malware included. | May 22 10:32 |
| schestowitz | Didn't pay attention until now... Companies Created by Former Microsoft Employees Rally Around Novell, (Pseud)Open Source < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/22/companies-to-watch-out-for/ > | May 22 10:34 |
| schestowitz | Haha. | May 22 10:34 |
| schestowitz | It happened before, oiaohm | May 22 10:34 |
| schestowitz | Like last year | May 22 10:34 |
| schestowitz | There were jokes about it, too | May 22 10:34 |
| oiaohm | Catch is its happening more and more. | May 22 10:36 |
| oiaohm | From many different vendors. So basically you cannot trust a machine to be clean out box. | May 22 10:36 |
| *schestowitz does an article about Australia | May 22 10:40 | |
| schestowitz | Are you OK with: "Oiaohm, who points to this page from Microsoft’s lobbying Web site, asks: “Why should a court case be allowed to work as advertisement? And why should a court case be run to the time line of the defendant?”" | May 22 10:40 |
| oiaohm | That artical was about EU. | May 22 10:42 |
| oiaohm | Fine with the line. | May 22 10:42 |
| schestowitz | Yes, but you'll see | May 22 10:49 |
| schestowitz | It's not the main sstory | May 22 10:49 |
| Omar871 | Guys, don't you think that the Free Software community is an urgent need for more community events that can compete with the one's arranged by Microsoft? (E.g: Imagine Cup) | May 22 11:41 |
| Omar871 | is *in* an urgent need. | May 22 11:41 |
| MinceR | those would be nice. | May 22 11:49 |
| schestowitz | If Flash is More Open Than Moonlight, Does That Make Microsoft Moonlight Proprietary? < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/22/moonlight-proprietary-codecs-debate/ > | May 22 11:51 |
| schestowitz | Omar871: agreed | May 22 11:51 |
| schestowitz | Do we not have enough? | May 22 11:51 |
| Omar871 | schestowitz: I'm not sure we do. | May 22 11:51 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft "community events" are as much about community as Bush to democracy | May 22 11:52 |
| schestowitz | Omar871: does Red Hat have presence in Jordan? | May 22 11:52 |
| Omar871 | schestowitz: The most famous one is the GSoC. Not sure if we have anything else. | May 22 11:52 |
| MinceR | FLOSS needs presence in hungary. | May 22 11:53 |
| Omar871 | schestowitz: Yeah, there's a company, that I can't remember the name of, that offers RedHat support and certifications. | May 22 11:54 |
| Omar871 | schestowitz: Other than that, my friend is working on establishing an Open Source Society in Jordan. | May 22 11:55 |
| Omar871 | schestowitz: I'll try to convince him to name it: Free Software Society in Jordan. | May 22 11:56 |
| Omar871 | schestowitz: Agreed. | May 22 12:04 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft is Again Paying the Huge Price for Wanting Anti-Free Software Laws < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/22/microsoft-is-stung-by-software-patents/ > | May 22 12:13 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: there? | May 22 12:13 |
| schestowitz | See the latest post about Moonlight | May 22 12:13 |
| schestowitz | It links to DownloadSquad | May 22 12:13 |
| schestowitz | Maybe you can spread it further: http://www.downloadsquad.com/2009/05/19/flash-isnt-going-open-source-but-it-may-already-be-more-open-t/ | May 22 12:14 |
| schestowitz | Omar871: sorry, got distracted | May 22 12:14 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: they made some FOSS promises recently. Just PR? | May 22 12:14 |
| MinceR | perhaps | May 22 12:14 |
| MinceR | i don't think i've managed to decode them | May 22 12:14 |
| schestowitz | Omar871: you can ask Linux companies for help or sponsorship to run events | May 22 12:14 |
| MinceR | my reading says they said they'll spend 12 MHUF on m$ and novell and 12 MHUF on FLOSS | May 22 12:15 |
| schestowitz | They might help you provided you put up a banner | May 22 12:15 |
| MinceR | but it's possible that it's 12 on m$ and 12 on novell | May 22 12:15 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: yes, "Novell". I remember. | May 22 12:15 |
| schestowitz | It's like the fake debate | May 22 12:15 |
| MinceR | also, it might be something "based on open standards" instead of FLOSS | May 22 12:15 |
| schestowitz | Over the wrong issue | May 22 12:15 |
| schestowitz | FOSS vs CSS: Novell vs Microsoft? | May 22 12:15 |
| schestowitz | Argument over 'war' in Iraq: Obama vs Bush? | May 22 12:16 |
| schestowitz | Nope. | May 22 12:16 |
| schestowitz | Maybe Kucinich/Paul vs Bush | May 22 12:16 |
| schestowitz | Choose left or right, get the same thing | May 22 12:16 |
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| oiaohm | Omar871: name it both. | May 22 12:25 |
| oiaohm | Some markets respond well to free software others responed better to open source. | May 22 12:26 |
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| Omar871 | oiaohm: True. | May 22 12:30 |
| oiaohm | There is nothing against a enity having 2 names. | May 22 12:31 |
| schestowitz | Quote of the Day: “Microsoft Doesn’t Follow Standards, They Create Them.” < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/22/microsoft-does-not-follow-standards/ > | May 22 12:32 |
| oiaohm | Becides it makes some interesting debates at times with the different points of view of free software and open source supporters. | May 22 12:32 |
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| tacone | omg, i wrote a post at 4 am and 2 people already copy-pasted it on their blog | May 22 12:37 |
| schestowitz | LOL | May 22 12:38 |
| tacone | one of them is one guy i also quite respect | May 22 12:38 |
| tacone | gosh | May 22 12:38 |
| schestowitz | http://lunduke.com/?p=526&cpage=1#comment-3117 "Brian, if you value your reputation as a serious contributor, don’t draw attention to the LHB blog. If I didn’t know any better, I would suspect you of attempting to direct traffic to that site under the pretext of some kind of bogus controversy. And if you really want to know just who writes LHB then why not ask his good friend Miguel." | May 22 12:39 |
| schestowitz | http://pastebin.com/f1e04f482 | May 22 12:39 |
| schestowitz | > Hey, lighten up! LHB is not about hating linux, it’s just satire - art, if you will | May 22 12:40 |
| schestowitz | LHB is about pissing all over the Open Source community, anyone by association with that blog also gets tarnished. Anyone reading that blog would run like hell. Oh, wait | May 22 12:40 |
| schestowitz | > I don’t see why he has to give up his name. Why? So he can be found and fucked by the freetards? | May 22 12:40 |
| schestowitz | He’s happy to attack other people personally, goose gander etc .. | May 22 12:40 |
| schestowitz | > The Linux Hater is actually, a Linux fan. How else could he actually know AND explain all the bugs in Linux? | May 22 12:40 |
| schestowitz | Or who ever writes his material for him. Possible the Microsoft Lunux lab | May 22 12:40 |
| schestowitz | -- | May 22 12:41 |
| schestowitz | A friend of mine said: "He's now talking up a fake controversy with LHB, he is curious as to who this asnonymous blogger is. I posted and asked why not ask Miguel :) " | May 22 12:41 |
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| tacone | i won't comment. imho he just has been trolled | May 22 12:41 |
| schestowitz | Bryan Lunduke fake spat with Linux Hater http://lunduke.com/?p=526 | May 22 12:41 |
| schestowitz | tacone: tacone: who was trolled | May 22 12:41 |
| tacone | attracting lhb traffic to his site would be utterly stupid. that would not be good traffic | May 22 12:41 |
| schestowitz | Friend says: "Lhater is classic, sound like it could have been written by flatfish(s), it;s the combination of abuse and technical issues. And dropping in a 'freetard' and a 'crapware' every so often. See here where Lunduke is talking up a fake disagreement with Hhater. So we have both Lunduke and de Icaza both drawing attention to it. Time for a call to 'out' Lhater." | May 22 12:42 |
| schestowitz | I don't want to blog this | May 22 12:42 |
| schestowitz | I was asked to | May 22 12:42 |
| schestowitz | But it would only feed both guys | May 22 12:42 |
| schestowitz | LHB and Bryan Lunduke | May 22 12:42 |
| schestowitz | The "Linux sucks" people | May 22 12:42 |
| schestowitz | Linux Hater, Bryan Lunduke, and Freedom < http://jakedth.tumblr.com/post/110392665/linux-hater-bryan-lunduke-and-freedom > "To suggest such unified development for the sake of being like the rest, is to restrict people’s personal tastes and freedoms." | May 22 12:43 |
| schestowitz | Even their readers don't disagree with their FUD | May 22 12:43 |
| tacone | http://www.stefanoforenza.com/lost-in-paris-roundup/ | May 22 12:43 |
| schestowitz | Lundumb < http://blogbeebe.blogspot.com/2009/05/lundork.html > | May 22 12:43 |
| schestowitz | tacone: what's there? New comments? | May 22 12:43 |
| oiaohm | lunduke is a lot like me. Ok neither of us really hate Linux. But lot of things annoy the hell out of us. | May 22 12:43 |
| oiaohm | Linux Hater started out with good detailed articals on things and slowly gone down hill as topics disappeared. | May 22 12:44 |
| schestowitz | http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/15/0647254 (New York Times Wipes Journalist's Online Corpus) | May 22 12:44 |
| schestowitz | I got some more about censorship | May 22 12:44 |
| oiaohm | Its like as if another ghost writer provided his information. | May 22 12:44 |
| tacone | nothing. me writing about him having been trolled | May 22 12:44 |
| schestowitz | And I was shown example of censorship where MS was involved | May 22 12:45 |
| tacone | he also posted a follow up, btw. an unuseful one. | May 22 12:45 |
| schestowitz | Regarding lost archive, that reader says: "Not me, it was a long time ago, I posted the before one, went back to have another look and it was changed. It seems to be a common occurrence where they lose the archive when moving house. :) " | May 22 12:46 |
| schestowitz | He was censored by the "Linux haters" | May 22 12:46 |
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| oiaohm | Dividing and merge happens through open source history. | May 22 12:55 |
| *toros (n=copy@ubuntu/member/toros) has joined #boycottnovell | May 22 12:58 | |
| toros | hi | May 22 12:58 |
| toros | are you under DDoS attack again? | May 22 12:58 |
| toros | the site is pretty slow now... :( | May 22 12:58 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I hear.. | May 22 12:59 |
| schestowitz | Let me check | May 22 12:59 |
| schestowitz | Heavy load | May 22 13:00 |
| schestowitz | But I have no access to logs | May 22 13:00 |
| schestowitz | Let me check | May 22 13:00 |
| schestowitz | oad average: 1.54, 1.25, 1.32 | May 22 13:02 |
| schestowitz | [boycottn@boycottnovell log]$ uptime | May 22 13:02 |
| schestowitz | 12847 apache 16 0 279m 61m 976 S 0.0 6.0 2:41.16 httpd | May 22 13:02 |
| schestowitz | 11787 mysql 16 0 267m 52m 3288 S 0.0 5.1 20:33.59 mysqld | May 22 13:02 |
| schestowitz | 13336 apache 15 0 258m 40m 2644 S 0.0 4.0 2:34.76 httpd | May 22 13:02 |
| schestowitz | 12850 apache 15 0 258m 40m 1876 S 0.0 4.0 2:31.57 httpd | May 22 13:02 |
| schestowitz | 12862 apache 15 0 259m 40m 1336 S 0.0 3.9 2:46.30 httpd | May 22 13:02 |
| schestowitz | 14609 apache 16 0 257m 39m 2532 S 0.0 3.9 2:22.29 httpd | May 22 13:02 |
| schestowitz | 16293 apache 15 0 258m 39m 1808 S 0.0 3.9 1:45.92 httpd | May 22 13:02 |
| schestowitz | 12863 apache 16 0 258m 39m 972 S 0.0 3.9 2:30.98 httpd | May 22 13:02 |
| schestowitz | 12845 apache 15 0 258m 39m 976 S 0.0 3.8 2:34.88 httpd | May 22 13:02 |
| schestowitz | 12844 apache 15 0 257m 39m 1888 S 0.0 3.8 2:43.28 httpd | May 22 13:02 |
| schestowitz | 12860 apache 15 0 257m 38m 1576 S 0.0 3.8 2:36.94 httpd | May 22 13:02 |
| schestowitz | 24687 apache 16 0 257m 38m 1988 S 0.0 3.8 0:26.21 httpd | May 22 13:02 |
| schestowitz | 12846 apache 15 0 257m 38m 1472 S 0.0 3.8 2:38.52 httpd | May 22 13:02 |
| schestowitz | 12849 apache 15 0 258m 38m 976 S 0.0 3.8 2:39.50 httpd | May 22 13:02 |
| schestowitz | 12864 apache 15 0 257m 38m 1468 S 0.0 3.8 2:31.29 httpd | May 22 13:02 |
| schestowitz | 12843 apache 15 0 257m 38m 972 S 0.0 3.7 2:39.33 httpd | May 22 13:02 |
| schestowitz | 16181 apache 15 0 257m 37m 984 S 0.0 3.7 1:57.76 httpd | May 22 13:02 |
| Omar871 | Guys, I really feel sad when I hear that one of my friends are participating in Imagin Cup... :( | May 22 13:02 |
| tacone | gosh | May 22 13:02 |
| schestowitz | We have filtering enables (iptables firewall), but it looks like it MIGHT be an effect of something | May 22 13:02 |
| Omar871 | *is* participating.. | May 22 13:02 |
| tacone | it seems a normal load to me | May 22 13:02 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 22 13:03 |
| schestowitz | But someone in identica just told me it took him a minute to load a page | May 22 13:03 |
| schestowitz | "I reckon your hits are spiking @schestowitz. I had to wait over 45 secs for some pages." | May 22 13:03 |
| schestowitz | Where is my apache log? | May 22 13:03 |
| schestowitz | /log/var/http* requires root | May 22 13:03 |
| schestowitz | And I can't su | May 22 13:03 |
| oiaohm | For me its strange. | May 22 13:04 |
| oiaohm | I stop trying to access boycott novell for about 60 seconds then try again and everythign is good. | May 22 13:04 |
| schestowitz | How to access apache log... ? | May 22 13:05 |
| tacone | you can't. | May 22 13:06 |
| tacone | you can't ask tessier to put you in the adm group if you're on a debian | May 22 13:06 |
| tacone | or do some trick to let you read the logs nextime | May 22 13:07 |
| tacone | but i doubt you'll be able to read them now | May 22 13:07 |
| schestowitz | Yes, we're not there yet | May 22 13:07 |
| tacone | schestowitz: weren't you on a VM, though ? | May 22 13:07 |
| schestowitz | I also need an outgoing mail server for notifications | May 22 13:07 |
| schestowitz | tacone: yes | May 22 13:07 |
| tacone | you don't have the root on that BM ? | May 22 13:08 |
| tacone | VM | May 22 13:08 |
| schestowitz | I do | May 22 13:08 |
| schestowitz | Let me retry | May 22 13:08 |
| oiaohm | You don't have ~/.log in your home dir by any chance. | May 22 13:08 |
| tacone | try with sudo su - | May 22 13:08 |
| oiaohm | Normally when I setup apache with users I place the log for there site in there account. | May 22 13:08 |
| schestowitz | [boycottn@boycottnovell ~]$ cd ~/.log | May 22 13:08 |
| schestowitz | -bash: cd: /home/boycottn/.log: No such file or directory | May 22 13:08 |
| oiaohm | Opps ~/.logs | May 22 13:09 |
| oiaohm | Left a s off. | May 22 13:09 |
| tacone | bb | May 22 13:11 |
| schestowitz | I got in | May 22 13:12 |
| oiaohm | Thanks for reminding me that I need to do log cleaning on this machine. | May 22 13:12 |
| schestowitz | I'd need to process the logs | May 22 13:12 |
| oiaohm | Only have not done it for 7 years. | May 22 13:12 |
| oiaohm | Upgrades and all in that time. | May 22 13:12 |
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| schestowitz | OK, I see stats now | May 22 13:20 |
| schestowitz | Many errors from last night | May 22 13:21 |
| schestowitz | After DNS switchover | May 22 13:21 |
| schestowitz | 2700 UIPs in 13 hours | May 22 13:21 |
| schestowitz | Downtime messed up with Google listings AFAIK | May 22 13:21 |
| oiaohm | Yep DNS switchover does cause hickups. | May 22 13:22 |
| Omar871 | There's a question that I've been asking myself for sometime.. | May 22 13:26 |
| schestowitz | The logs compressed were 50MB for the first half of May | May 22 13:27 |
| Omar871 | Free software-based webistes, how do they develop the animated parts of their websites if they don't use Adobe Flash? | May 22 13:27 |
| schestowitz | Omar871: many ways | May 22 13:27 |
| schestowitz | gifs | May 22 13:27 |
| schestowitz | Or even JS | May 22 13:27 |
| oiaohm | javascript can do a lot. | May 22 13:28 |
| schestowitz | There's also tricks one can do with SVG | May 22 13:28 |
| schestowitz | But MS won't support SVG | May 22 13:28 |
| schestowitz | Everyone does but MS | May 22 13:28 |
| schestowitz | it wants you to use Microsoft Silverlight ot Microsoft Moonlight | May 22 13:28 |
| schestowitz | Omar871: search for SVG+JS demos | May 22 13:28 |
| oiaohm | http://www.nihilogic.dk/labs/wolf/ Right threw to playing 3d games. | May 22 13:29 |
| schestowitz | It's amazing what can be achieved | May 22 13:29 |
| oiaohm | In javascript. | May 22 13:29 |
| schestowitz | MS screws JS too | May 22 13:29 |
| oiaohm | IE don't work. | May 22 13:29 |
| toros | Omar871: for video, they can use the "video" tag | May 22 13:30 |
| toros | and include ogg videos | May 22 13:30 |
| schestowitz | I do | May 22 13:31 |
| toros | the next firefox release will support it | May 22 13:31 |
| schestowitz | Then people complain it ain't valid XHTML | May 22 13:31 |
| toros | schestowitz: I know :) | May 22 13:31 |
| Omar871 | cool! | May 22 13:31 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-130-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | May 22 13:31 | |
| _Hicham_ | Hi oiaohm | May 22 13:31 |
| Omar871 | schestowitz: Actually, if there's anything they should complain about is IE's complete disobedience to the W3C standards. :) | May 22 13:32 |
| _Hicham_ | السلام عليكم و رحمة الله تعالى و بركاته يا سيد عمر | May 22 13:32 |
| oiaohm | Hi _Hicham_ | May 22 13:32 |
| Omar871 | _Hicham_: و عليكم السلام و رحمة الله و بركاته سيد هشام | May 22 13:33 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : do u use the Nouveau driver? | May 22 13:34 |
| oiaohm | No it don't run with my Nvidia card anywhere near good enough. | May 22 13:34 |
| oiaohm | Remember I do run blender the cpu and video card breaking application. | May 22 13:34 |
| _Hicham_ | so u use the proprietary one? | May 22 13:35 |
| oiaohm | Kinda have to. | May 22 13:35 |
| oiaohm | Even then its a pain. | May 22 13:35 |
| oiaohm | Because only particular versions of it work. | May 22 13:35 |
| _Hicham_ | do u think that Nouveau can replace the proprietary one in the near future? | May 22 13:35 |
| oiaohm | Not near. | May 22 13:36 |
| oiaohm | I might end up swaping my card to ATI. | May 22 13:36 |
| _Hicham_ | the latest Nvidia driver doesn't support all previous cards? | May 22 13:36 |
| _Hicham_ | r2xx to r5xx work great with open source driver | May 22 13:36 |
| oiaohm | Nvidia driver has many break points. | May 22 13:36 |
| _Hicham_ | does the proprietary driver support KMS? | May 22 13:36 |
| oiaohm | Nop. | May 22 13:37 |
| oiaohm | No KMS with Nvidia closed source drivers. | May 22 13:37 |
| _Hicham_ | I heard that some chipsets support KMS with Nouveau | May 22 13:37 |
| oiaohm | I need the opengl support. | May 22 13:38 |
| *ushimitsudoki (n=ushimits@p1170-ipad04yosemiya.okinawa.ocn.ne.jp) has joined #boycottnovell | May 22 13:38 | |
| schestowitz | load average: 3.03, 1.99, 1.51 | May 22 13:38 |
| schestowitz | Don't know what's causing it | May 22 13:39 |
| _Hicham_ | is it another beginning of a ddos? | May 22 13:39 |
| schestowitz | Probably not | May 22 13:39 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : no opengl support with nv and nouveau? | May 22 13:40 |
| schestowitz | I've just done a comprehensive file comparison | May 22 13:40 |
| schestowitz | To ensure all files and data are in tact | May 22 13:40 |
| schestowitz | All clear, but I am using a package called "visitors" to view stats | May 22 13:41 |
| oiaohm | You don't know blender _Hicham_ | May 22 13:41 |
| schestowitz | It's Free softwaare | May 22 13:41 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: do you know "Visitors"? | May 22 13:41 |
| schestowitz | Anything better than awstats? | May 22 13:41 |
| schestowitz | For analysing error logs too? | May 22 13:41 |
| schestowitz | urchin is now Google spyware | May 22 13:41 |
| schestowitz | And not FOSS | May 22 13:41 |
| oiaohm | Particularly with the new game engine _Hicham_ it gets nasty on card. | May 22 13:41 |
| oiaohm | Have not tried Visitors | May 22 13:42 |
| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&c2coff=1&ei=46AWSv62AsPMjAfvwKH0DA&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=free+software+apache+statistics&spell=1 | May 22 13:42 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: I downloaded it like 4 years ago | May 22 13:42 |
| _Hicham_ | I don't use blender | May 22 13:42 |
| schestowitz | Its main merit is that it dissects things deeper | May 22 13:42 |
| _Hicham_ | I use OpenGL with Gtk | May 22 13:42 |
| _Hicham_ | and I am having a problem right now with | May 22 13:42 |
| _Hicham_ | though the situation have improved now | May 22 13:43 |
| _Hicham_ | with xserver 1.6 | May 22 13:43 |
| oiaohm | Hmm Visitors has a nice graphic. | May 22 13:43 |
| schestowitz | http://www.sawmill.net/dcforum/DCForumID5/441.html | May 22 13:43 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: what do Winders uses use? | May 22 13:43 |
| _Hicham_ | I am trying to send key presses to three opengl areas | May 22 13:44 |
| _Hicham_ | but I have a problem is refreshing the areas | May 22 13:44 |
| _Hicham_ | only the first created area is refreshed | May 22 13:44 |
| _Hicham_ | the other got refreshed on other events | May 22 13:45 |
| oiaohm | Me most of the time I use awstats most windows admins seam not to bother with stats. | May 22 13:46 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. Someone just told me that the guys who choose Microsoft for the UK government and London don't like me | May 22 13:46 |
| schestowitz | They mentioned my name specifically. | May 22 13:46 |
| schestowitz | Heh. They really should be angry at Mark Ballard, who did most of the investigative work. Some Microsoft GMs mention me too because they don't like me (so I've heard) | May 22 13:46 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: Windows servers I understand don't come with free stats s/w | May 22 13:47 |
| schestowitz | They are asked to BUY some | May 22 13:47 |
| schestowitz | Typical Windows | May 22 13:47 |
| schestowitz | Comes with Solitaire and defrag | May 22 13:47 |
| oiaohm | awstats works on windows. | May 22 13:47 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : any idea? | May 22 13:47 |
| _Hicham_ | fuck Windows | May 22 13:47 |
| schestowitz | Everything else needs you pulling a credit car | May 22 13:47 |
| _Hicham_ | any idea? | May 22 13:47 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: I know | May 22 13:47 |
| schestowitz | But it's not as integrated to it as cpanel | May 22 13:47 |
| schestowitz | I saw some forum messages some years back | May 22 13:48 |
| oiaohm | The drivers for ATI are not what you call perfect yet _Hicham_ | May 22 13:48 |
| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/urchin/download.html | May 22 13:48 |
| _Hicham_ | well, at least for me | May 22 13:48 |
| schestowitz | or implementation assistance and to purchase a serial code, please contact an Urchin Software Authorized Consultant. | May 22 13:48 |
| _Hicham_ | radeon is working great | May 22 13:48 |
| schestowitz | Blech | May 22 13:49 |
| schestowitz | Serial code | May 22 13:49 |
| _Hicham_ | Schestowitz Software Inc. , alias SSI | May 22 13:49 |
| oiaohm | Funny part I have sold the setup of awstats to windows admins. | May 22 13:49 |
| _Hicham_ | all kinds of software | May 22 13:49 |
| _Hicham_ | for no fee | May 22 13:49 |
| oiaohm | Yes thick buggers. I get to make money off free software from them. | May 22 13:50 |
| schestowitz | WTF? | May 22 13:50 |
| schestowitz | 187MB | May 22 13:50 |
| schestowitz | For Urchin for GNU/Linux | May 22 13:50 |
| _Hicham_ | 187 MB of what? | May 22 13:50 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: that's services | May 22 13:50 |
| schestowitz | How money is made with freedom respected | May 22 13:50 |
| schestowitz | Code=free | May 22 13:50 |
| schestowitz | Audio=free | May 22 13:51 |
| schestowitz | Performance=not free | May 22 13:51 |
| schestowitz | Human attention=not free | May 22 13:51 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: the download of Urchin | May 22 13:51 |
| schestowitz | It's proprietary | May 22 13:51 |
| schestowitz | And it's not free (gratis) AFAIK | May 22 13:51 |
| schestowitz | Maybe it's for old customer | May 22 13:51 |
| schestowitz | *s | May 22 13:52 |
| schestowitz | When Google bought them | May 22 13:52 |
| schestowitz | But Google has no STORE for it | May 22 13:52 |
| schestowitz | So it must be legacy | May 22 13:52 |
| schestowitz | They just want people to permit spying | May 22 13:52 |
| schestowitz | Urchin->Google Analytics | May 22 13:52 |
| schestowitz | =spyware | May 22 13:52 |
| oiaohm | When they ring you up to buy it again they are thick buggers. | May 22 13:53 |
| oiaohm | Because they have installed a new server. | May 22 13:53 |
| oiaohm | People wonder why MS network get broken into it is the quality of the staff. | May 22 13:53 |
| _Hicham_ | we can make good money with free software | May 22 13:54 |
| schestowitz | This is complicated to set up | May 22 13:54 |
| schestowitz | Involved mysql stuff | May 22 13:54 |
| _Hicham_ | always look for the RedHat way | May 22 13:54 |
| schestowitz | Cmes with big manual | May 22 13:54 |
| schestowitz | This stuff is heavy | May 22 13:55 |
| _Hicham_ | mysql is standard | May 22 13:55 |
| schestowitz | 700MB for the software uncompressed | May 22 13:55 |
| _Hicham_ | nothing can be done without mysql | May 22 13:55 |
| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/urchin/index.html "Urchin Software from Google is supported exclusively through Urchin Software Authorized Consultants" | May 22 13:56 |
| oiaohm | http://www.mrunix.net/webalizer/ This one is highly useful when running squid schestowitz | May 22 13:56 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: yes, but it's not an Apache analyser | May 22 13:56 |
| schestowitz | It digs very deep into the server op | May 22 13:56 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: I have Webalizer | May 22 13:56 |
| *_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving.") | May 22 13:56 | |
| schestowitz | Used it since 2001 | May 22 13:56 |
| oiaohm | It is true to label insanely light to use. | May 22 13:57 |
| schestowitz | "The demo license is good for 30 days. You do not need to reinstall the software if you decide to purchase a permanent license. " | May 22 13:57 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, it was interetsing to see what it's about | May 22 13:57 |
| schestowitz | 700MB | May 22 13:57 |
| schestowitz | WIndows/BSD/Linux | May 22 13:57 |
| oiaohm | urchin is not the most expensive out there. | May 22 13:58 |
| schestowitz | I think I might just give up on checking usage | May 22 13:58 |
| schestowitz | Not worth the effort | May 22 13:58 |
| oiaohm | There is a hunting one I love fully 3d display. | May 22 13:58 |
| schestowitz | I stopped checking my other sites years ago, having done so daily | May 22 13:58 |
| schestowitz | It doesn't help the writing in any way | May 22 13:58 |
| oiaohm | Ie geo back trace. | May 22 13:59 |
| oiaohm | Some day I have to build either blender or kde marble. | May 22 14:01 |
| schestowitz | top - 06:17:22 up 1 day, 8:48, 2 users, load average: 2.06, 1.65, 1.59 | May 22 14:03 |
| schestowitz | Tasks: 91 total, 2 running, 89 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie | May 22 14:03 |
| schestowitz | Cpu(s): 7.9%us, 1.7%sy, 0.0%ni, 7.3%id, 82.8%wa, 0.0%hi, 0.0%si, 0.3%st | May 22 14:03 |
| schestowitz | Mem: 1048576k total, 1043208k used, 5368k free, 768k buffers | May 22 14:03 |
| schestowitz | Swap: 0k total, 0k used, 0k free, 112032k cached | May 22 14:03 |
| schestowitz | Is this normal for a VM? | May 22 14:03 |
| schestowitz | It takes up all the RAM | May 22 14:03 |
| *tacone (i=97508a4b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-976e1feee09f3da6) has joined #boycottnovell | May 22 14:03 | |
| oiaohm | Linux by nature will use all ram for something. | May 22 14:04 |
| oiaohm | Ie disk cache.... | May 22 14:04 |
| oiaohm | No swap file usage means no stress. | May 22 14:04 |
| oiaohm | Normally I have a swap file or part in a virtual machine. | May 22 14:05 |
| schestowitz | Is Alastair Otter doing MS press releases now? http://www.tectonic.co.za/?p=2435 | May 22 14:06 |
| schestowitz | Wow. Again Alastair Otter prods the Microsoft party line on ODF < http://www.tectonic.co.za/?p=4800 >, but why? | May 22 14:08 |
| schestowitz | Then he posts this: Microsoft’s ODF support is broken, says alliance < http://www.tectonic.co.za/?p=4806 > | May 22 14:09 |
| schestowitz | "The open-source house boasts that over the last four years, more than 8,000 developers have built more than 12,000 add-ons for its Firefox browser." http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/22/mozilla_jetpack/ | May 22 14:11 |
| schestowitz | Here it goes again: DDoS attack chokes Chinese net surfing < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/21/chinese_ddos_attacks/ > | May 22 14:12 |
| tacone | http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/software-installation-in-linux-is-difficult/ | May 22 14:18 |
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| trmanco | another good arse kick for moonight -> http://www.downloadsquad.com/2009/05/19/flash-isnt-going-open-source-but-it-may-already-be-more-open-t/ | May 22 14:20 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: yes, posted about it this morning | May 22 14:25 |
| schestowitz | it's good that people are catching up | May 22 14:25 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: haven't seen the comments yet, but they probably attack him | May 22 14:25 |
| schestowitz | (the Mono 'crusade' that is) | May 22 14:26 |
| tacone | lol | May 22 14:27 |
| trmanco | yeah | May 22 14:28 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft suspends DC in Iowa, Google builds one. Ah! The irony!111 http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/05/21/google-opens-iowa-data-center | May 22 14:36 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. "Stitchup *is* annoyed with XX... *and* XX... *and* you... and pretty much *anyone* who doesn't think the sun shines out of his arse or that he hasn't sold the UK Public Sector down the drain to a huge, vicious, multipli-convicted serial monopolist..." | May 22 14:38 |
| schestowitz | very funny | May 22 14:38 |
| schestowitz | I have always been very polite when writing about "Stitchup". Some people told me that putting a mirror in front of a person sometimes makes then furious. | May 22 14:38 |
| tacone | lol ! | May 22 14:39 |
| tacone | schestowitz: when the EU gave the pdf to Marco Cappato, they asked him not to publish it | May 22 14:40 |
| tacone | so EU didn't really made it public for purpouse | May 22 14:40 |
| schestowitz | Nifty: Alleged Nokia Linux smartphone plans exposed by leak http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/05/alleged-nokia-linux-smartphone-plans-exposed-by-leak.ars | May 22 14:40 |
| schestowitz | tacone: yes, I know | May 22 14:40 |
| schestowitz | it's the same with me | May 22 14:40 |
| tacone | I didn't know ! | May 22 14:40 |
| schestowitz | I have asked for MONTHS for a document | May 22 14:40 |
| schestowitz | They break the law | May 22 14:40 |
| tacone | i thought they finally released it. | May 22 14:40 |
| schestowitz | Transparency Directive | May 22 14:41 |
| schestowitz | I should mail them again | May 22 14:41 |
| schestowitz | I even show them the directive | May 22 14:41 |
| schestowitz | They just bring more colleagues into CCs | May 22 14:41 |
| schestowitz | No, they didn't release it | May 22 14:41 |
| tacone | if they affirm they lost the document, they should be held liable for loosing documentation. | May 22 14:41 |
| schestowitz | They pretend they don't know WHAT | May 22 14:41 |
| tacone | they should be held liable of not knowing WHAT :) | May 22 14:42 |
| schestowitz | Lars Hindkjær Pedersen | May 22 14:42 |
| schestowitz | main gatekeeper | May 22 14:42 |
| schestowitz | tacone: let me do a post about it | May 22 14:42 |
| schestowitz | I forgot about it | May 22 14:42 |
| tacone | lol | May 22 14:42 |
| tacone | ok, I'll let you :) | May 22 14:43 |
| tacone | fuck. another copypaste of my post | May 22 14:43 |
| tacone | i'm getting tired of that | May 22 14:43 |
| schestowitz | "I am out of the office from the 6th of April 2009 to the 20th of April 2009." | May 22 14:44 |
| tacone | and they removed the rickroll | May 22 14:44 |
| schestowitz | FOSS people in parliament use this to pressure them | May 22 14:44 |
| schestowitz | "I am out of the office from the 6th of April 2009 to the 20th of April 2009." | May 22 14:45 |
| schestowitz | "European Commission - DG Information Society and Media" | May 22 14:45 |
| schestowitz | You'd think the European Commission would be supportive of FOSS | May 22 14:45 |
| schestowitz | Not just apprehensive wrt MS | May 22 14:45 |
| oiaohm | I would not be supprised if that nokia leak is not coping MS leaks. | May 22 14:51 |
| oiaohm | its still a good marketing stunt. | May 22 14:51 |
| schestowitz | tacone: I've just mailed them again | May 22 14:52 |
| schestowitz | Next stop: Ombudsman | May 22 14:53 |
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| schestowitz | Yahoo! wants some social networks: http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-yahoo-is-looking-to-buy-a-social-network/ | May 22 14:56 |
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| *mib_breo3p is now known as Ap0g33 | May 22 14:56 | |
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| tacone | they failed building any. | May 22 15:05 |
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| schestowitz | tacone: did they try? | May 22 15:05 |
| schestowitz | MS failed too | May 22 15:05 |
| schestowitz | What was it even called? | May 22 15:06 |
| schestowitz | I can't remember now | May 22 15:06 |
| schestowitz | It was spammed since day 1 | May 22 15:06 |
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| tacone | dunno | May 22 15:06 |
| schestowitz | Is Digg still a worth target for anyone? it's declining | May 22 15:06 |
| schestowitz | I no longer use it muc | May 22 15:06 |
| schestowitz | *much | May 22 15:06 |
| tacone | it sucks | May 22 15:07 |
| tacone | i do much better with reddit | May 22 15:07 |
| tacone | even fsdaily brings more than digg | May 22 15:07 |
| schestowitz | Obama plans more open government http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/technology/8063040.stm What does open mean? He hides ACTA. | May 22 15:07 |
| tacone | brb | May 22 15:08 |
| MinceR | digg is a forum for crApple cultists. | May 22 15:08 |
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| schestowitz | tacone: fsdaily unless FP, right? | May 22 15:08 |
| schestowitz | Digg's FP is a knocker | May 22 15:08 |
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| schestowitz | Pornographic videos flood YouTube < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/uk/8061979.stm > | May 22 15:08 |
| schestowitz | Does that go under bad news or good news? | May 22 15:09 |
| MinceR | it goes under "so what?" :> | May 22 15:09 |
| MinceR | pr0n has always been easy to find | May 22 15:09 |
| DaemonFC | I'm writing an open letter to Live :P | May 22 15:09 |
| schestowitz | This could be an attempt to put YT in blacklists | May 22 15:10 |
| MinceR | like they say, "the internet is for porn" | May 22 15:10 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: open letter to die | May 22 15:10 |
| DaemonFC | no, the internet is for porn advertising malware | May 22 15:10 |
| schestowitz | Aka "suicide letter" | May 22 15:10 |
| DaemonFC | automatically forwarding itself over Windows Live Messenger | May 22 15:10 |
| DaemonFC | but then since so many people have Yahoo contacts in it too, it gets over onto their network | May 22 15:10 |
| DaemonFC | so even if you use Pidgin you get spammed eventually | May 22 15:11 |
| schestowitz | UK 'worst electrical recycler' < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8063115.stm > | May 22 15:11 |
| schestowitz | Someone just sent me this: | May 22 15:11 |
| schestowitz | "See this registered charity, they donate 'free' computers to the third world. Except they charge a 'handling' fee of £42.00 per PC plus shipping charge of £72 per PC. That's £19,705 for a 40ft container. This is surprising as they get the PCs for free and the refurbishment is done by people on the dole, who are paid £10:00 a day expenses. It don't sound very free to me." http://www.computeraid.org/TechnicalSpecs.htm | May 22 15:11 |
| schestowitz | It says: "We charge a handling fee of £42 plus shipping per computer to recover our costs" | May 22 15:11 |
| schestowitz | Re: http://www.computeraid.org/costings.htm "So, on the day, the average worker would refurbish 5 to 10 PCs (yes), so that's £204 worth of computers at £10 a time for the worker. It's not as if this money is going on the workers. Most of it is going on the salaries of the 22 staff members, who never put in an appearance in the workshop." | May 22 15:12 |
| schestowitz | "Computer Aid International is, however, a Microsoft Authorised Refurbisher, which allows us to install a Microsoft Windows 2000 or XP licensed operating system only at a cost of £10.00 per machine" | May 22 15:12 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. "Microsoft Authorised Refurbisher" | May 22 15:12 |
| schestowitz | Dumpers | May 22 15:12 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Microsoft was partially fundingthose "Free PC with internet contract" deals at Best Buy back about 10 years ago | May 22 15:12 |
| schestowitz | Get a load of this, they charge £10 a time for installing Ubuntu Linux: "We can also provide Ubuntu Linux and Open Office open source software (operating system and applications). If supplied on CD-ROM this is free. To pre-install on hard drives we charge £10.00 per PC. Please ask if you require this service" http://www.computeraid.org/TechnicalSpecs.htm | May 22 15:12 |
| DaemonFC | I signed up for one and formatted the disk :P | May 22 15:12 |
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| schestowitz | Haha | May 22 15:12 |
| DaemonFC | they shipped with all kinds of advertisements and whorebars :P | May 22 15:12 |
| schestowitz | They offer welfare | May 22 15:12 |
| schestowitz | Vista for $5 to ebay | May 22 15:13 |
| schestowitz | More 'free' computers for Africa | May 22 15:13 |
| schestowitz | There's a real issue hre | May 22 15:13 |
| schestowitz | The society is centred on wrong costs | May 22 15:13 |
| schestowitz | Like polluiton | May 22 15:13 |
| schestowitz | It it's expensive to cut down pollution, it won't happen | May 22 15:13 |
| schestowitz | Because the formulation of success accounts NEVER for factors other than raw profit | May 22 15:14 |
| schestowitz | So currency can be changed | May 22 15:14 |
| DaemonFC | I dunno, on one hand they standardized the industry on the PC which arguably brought costs for the hardware down, but now they've filled in the savings and then some by how much they charge for Windows | May 22 15:14 |
| schestowitz | To something that accounts for other things too. This way, with different goals, means to an end vary too | May 22 15:14 |
| DaemonFC | plus who knows what would have emerged from the 10 incompatible computer systems in the 80's | May 22 15:14 |
| DaemonFC | without them :P | May 22 15:14 |
| DaemonFC | possibly Mac, possibly Commodore | May 22 15:14 |
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| *DaemonFC really really liked Commodore | May 22 15:15 | |
| DaemonFC | I had a Commodore 64, 128, and an Amiga | May 22 15:15 |
| DaemonFC | then I wound up with a PC running DOS/Win 3.1 and was like "WTF do you do with it?" | May 22 15:15 |
| *trmanco says: open a bunch of useless windows | May 22 15:16 | |
| trmanco | and play the never ending free ski | May 22 15:16 |
| MinceR | set wallpaper and colors ;) | May 22 15:16 |
| DaemonFC | heh, everyone at that point had a DOS, I ended up with DR-DOS | May 22 15:16 |
| MinceR | find a replacement to Program Manager that isn't a total pain to use; then wonder why printing has broken | May 22 15:17 |
| trmanco | heh | May 22 15:17 |
| DaemonFC | Central Point Desktop | May 22 15:17 |
| trmanco | CPD | May 22 15:17 |
| DaemonFC | it helped, but it was still Windows 3.1 :P | May 22 15:17 |
| MinceR | i used Wayfarer and Plug-In for Windows | May 22 15:18 |
| DaemonFC | you still had to drop to DOS to do anything useful | May 22 15:18 |
| MinceR | then i dropped Wayfarer when i realized it broke printing | May 22 15:18 |
| DaemonFC | lots of people just deleted Windows | May 22 15:19 |
| DaemonFC | because it was taking hard disk space | May 22 15:19 |
| schestowitz | Heh. "With all the sillyness that goes on in the corridors of power in the EU (software patents, document format wars, 'net neutrality', antitrust wrangling from MS and Intel, etc.) this is a really live issue and it would be great to reach as many people as we can." | May 22 15:19 |
| DaemonFC | they like to call 3.1 a runaway hit with record sales cause they forced it on you | May 22 15:20 |
| DaemonFC | whether you had a use for it or not | May 22 15:20 |
| MinceR | and history repeated itself | May 22 15:20 |
| DaemonFC | well, what happened was that Win 3.1 was so primitive and useless, everyone just kept making stuff for DOS | May 22 15:21 |
| DaemonFC | MS tried to solve that with things like Win32's and WinG (precursor to DirectX), but nothing worked | May 22 15:21 |
| DaemonFC | the first notable game for Windows was The Lion King and WinG was incompatible with a lot of video adapters, so they game would simply crash | May 22 15:22 |
| Omar871 | Ughh!! Although I love Firefox so much, but when it crashes... it makes me wanna snap my laptop into to pieces! >< | May 22 15:23 |
| Omar871 | two* | May 22 15:23 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox heats up the laptop | May 22 15:23 |
| DaemonFC | makes the fan run continuously | May 22 15:23 |
| Omar871 | DaemonFC: Yeah, I agree! | May 22 15:23 |
| Omar871 | DaemonFC: But I guess, what really makes so heavy are add-ons. | May 22 15:24 |
| Omar871 | makes *it* | May 22 15:24 |
| DaemonFC | only thing I had was Adblock Plus | May 22 15:24 |
| DaemonFC | believe me, I'm not trying to overload the poor thing | May 22 15:24 |
| DaemonFC | I eventually tried that PC-BSD which runs fairly well, even with KDE, which is nothing short of amazing | May 22 15:25 |
| DaemonFC | but it takes a little work to make it Linux-compatible | May 22 15:25 |
| DaemonFC | you're stuck at Flash 7 unless you use the Linuxulator with a Linux web browser and Linux Flash | May 22 15:26 |
| DaemonFC | they base their Linux simulation on RHEL, FreeBSD 7 is THEL 4 compatible, version 8 will be RHEL 5 compatible | May 22 15:28 |
| DaemonFC | *RHEL | May 22 15:28 |
| schestowitz | UK move to FOSS today: "I've been asked to help with a campaign to ask MEP candidates to support Free and Open Source Software in the rapidly approaching European elections. I've agreed to be a spokesperson for the UK..." | May 22 15:28 |
| schestowitz | tacone: post coming | May 22 15:28 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Weren't people there getting pissed at the government for using Windows Media formats or something? | May 22 15:29 |
| tacone | sigh, my last post was not only cloned, but that copypaste went on linuxtoday | May 22 15:29 |
| tacone | i'm wondering if i should start to put some policy in place. | May 22 15:29 |
| DaemonFC | people will rip you off | May 22 15:29 |
| DaemonFC | you can still demand that they take it down | May 22 15:30 |
| DaemonFC | but I usually won't | May 22 15:30 |
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| DaemonFC | heh, "XP Antivirus malware has changed names to MS Antivirus" to confuse more people into running it | May 22 15:40 |
| DaemonFC | Google is still advertising it as usual | May 22 15:40 |
| DaemonFC | http://blogs.pcmag.com/securitywatch/2008/08/ms_antivirus_2008_morphed_from_xp_antivirus_2008.php | May 22 15:40 |
| DaemonFC | just another reason to not trust adwords | May 22 15:40 |
| MinceR | or google | May 22 15:40 |
| *mib_wb17sg is now known as Ap0g33 | May 22 15:41 | |
| DaemonFC | good point | May 22 15:41 |
| DaemonFC | I've got Seamonkey locked down enough that the great majority of attacks simply won't work | May 22 15:42 |
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| DaemonFC | most of them try to install themselves through advertisements and nearly all of them need scripting or Flash or JAVA enabled | May 22 15:43 |
| DaemonFC | according to leaked data from the malicious "XP Antivirus"'s "affiliate program", their most successful affiliate made over $158,000 a week | May 22 15:45 |
| DaemonFC | to push infestations onto Windows users | May 22 15:45 |
| DaemonFC | so you can only imagine what the criminals behind the operation are taking in | May 22 15:46 |
| DaemonFC | it's probably based in Russia or something | May 22 15:46 |
| DaemonFC | somewhere where the authorities will never shut them down | May 22 15:46 |
| schestowitz | 2 Months and No Disclosure from the European Parliament < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/22/european-parliament-disclosure/ > | May 22 15:48 |
| DaemonFC | hmm, it looks like the people behind it are Americans paying people in Ukraine and Belize | May 22 15:48 |
| DaemonFC | to actually run the operation for them | May 22 15:48 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: yes, Windows media there | May 22 15:49 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, the anti-spyware laws tend to be effective at punishing Americans that do this stuff | May 22 15:50 |
| DaemonFC | which is why they're paying frontmen in other countries | May 22 15:51 |
| DaemonFC | and it goes right on | May 22 15:51 |
| DaemonFC | I've been asking our state senator from this district to introduce anti-apyware legislation | May 22 15:52 |
| DaemonFC | but so far no good :P | May 22 15:52 |
| DaemonFC | as part of my last job I routinely found spyware on customers computers, I got tired of trying to get rid of it all and just started re-imaging the drives | May 22 15:54 |
| DaemonFC | trying to get rid of it all can take hours and you can never be sure you got all of it | May 22 15:54 |
| schestowitz | SA 'wants to export ubuntu' < http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_2519991,00.html >. Not the OS | May 22 15:54 |
| DaemonFC | once any of it gets in and sets up shop, game over, you lose | May 22 15:55 |
| DaemonFC | which is why I'll never know why anyone wants to have thousands of systems that are all vulnerable :P | May 22 15:55 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I was making more money cleaning up spyware off corporate networks than the people that put it there :) | May 22 15:56 |
| DaemonFC | How's that for obscene? | May 22 15:56 |
| schestowitz | Charlies combined two of his passions :-) http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137436/everclear-liquid-nitrogen-phenoms-party | May 22 15:57 |
| DaemonFC | if they ever stopped Windows or the spyware from attacking Windows, I know for sure that tens of thousands of people that make their whole living cleaning it off would be out of a job | May 22 15:57 |
| DaemonFC | Who the hell drinks Everclear? | May 22 15:58 |
| DaemonFC | Who the hell would be alert enough after a few shots of it to work on anything? | May 22 15:59 |
| DaemonFC | I call BS | May 22 15:59 |
| DaemonFC | oh wait | May 22 16:00 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm | May 22 16:00 |
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| DaemonFC | I bumped up my 1.86 Ghz Core 2 Duo to 2.33 Ghz | May 22 16:01 |
| DaemonFC | that count? | May 22 16:01 |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 22 16:01 |
| schestowitz | To tell w/ Lenovo: Lenovo's sales, profit fell in Q1 < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137444/lenovo-sales-profit-fell-q1 > | May 22 16:01 |
| schestowitz | Those who suck don't survive | May 22 16:01 |
| DaemonFC | I probably could have gotten more | May 22 16:01 |
| DaemonFC | decided not to | May 22 16:01 |
| schestowitz | Under moderate doses binging won't hurt modding | May 22 16:02 |
| schestowitz | Europe: as de Raadt put it (re: Intel), "open... for BUSINESS" | May 22 16:03 |
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| DaemonFC | schestowitz: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081130123314AAe3klv | May 22 16:04 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 22 16:04 |
| DaemonFC | "Can I install this virus on Vista? I already paid $50 for it and would haqte to waste my money!" | May 22 16:05 |
| DaemonFC | What is wrong with people? | May 22 16:05 |
| DaemonFC | *hate | May 22 16:05 |
| DaemonFC | these people make me scared | May 22 16:08 |
| schestowitz | Obama is open... to scrutiny; he would be better off close... to public needs. | May 22 16:12 |
| Grommet | that is scary, where do they get vista for $50 | May 22 16:12 |
| DaemonFC | no, the rogue antivirus program | May 22 16:12 |
| DaemonFC | she paid $50 for it | May 22 16:12 |
| schestowitz | That's extortionate | May 22 16:12 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 22 16:13 |
| schestowitz | CDs don't cost $50 | May 22 16:13 |
| schestowitz | Not even DVDs | May 22 16:13 |
| schestowitz | That's a helluva lot of money for wallpapers | May 22 16:13 |
| Grommet | lol | May 22 16:13 |
| schestowitz | And some junk binaries that act as malware magnets if run | May 22 16:13 |
| schestowitz | This again: Yahoo to buy into social media? < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25169/1054/ > Is Yahoo not dead yet? ;-) | May 22 16:14 |
| DaemonFC | well, these things mainly ask the user if they can install | May 22 16:14 |
| DaemonFC | that's what makes them so funny | May 22 16:14 |
| schestowitz | Peace = terrorism http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/22/police_photos_restricted/ (Police wrong to spy on peace campaigner) "war is peace..." | May 22 16:26 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/22/youtube_smut_flood/ "The video site has a zero-tolerance to nudity on the site - footage of doctors demonstrating breast examinations have famously been removed in the past, while footage of Saddam Hussein's death by hanging is still available. " | May 22 16:28 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft bails out of European competition hearing < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/22/microsoft_pulls_out_of_ec_competition_hearing/ > | May 22 16:28 |
| DaemonFC | stalling? | May 22 16:32 |
| schestowitz | Globe’s Oldest Blogger Dies At 97 < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/05/22/globe’s-oldest-blogger-dies-at-97 > | May 22 16:35 |
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| schestowitz | DaemonFC: stalling in what sense? | May 22 16:44 |
| schestowitz | Sorry, been on the phone for hours | May 22 16:44 |
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| schestowitz | "Looks like netbooks are going to accomplish CPU diversity at last. Since Linux supports pretty much any available processor, it looks really good." http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-05-21-027-35-OS-HW-OO-0002 | May 22 16:55 |
| Grommet | ppl are still buying netbooks? | May 22 16:56 |
| schestowitz | Some might | May 22 16:57 |
| DaemonFC | stalling as in hoping if they don't cooperate then it will slow the EU down long enough for them to get Windows 7 out as is | May 22 16:57 |
| schestowitz | Yes, that's what I reckon | May 22 17:02 |
| schestowitz | Quit X! screen-vs is more fun! < http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2009/05/21/quit-x-screen-vs-is-more-fun/ > | May 22 17:03 |
| *liberfiasco is now known as libervisco | May 22 17:03 | |
| schestowitz | Are are people fighting for affinity from well-dressed shills for hire? (Forrester) http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10246722-16.html | May 22 17:09 |
| schestowitz | http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2009247709_apusfedscomputervirus.html Does that affect computers or just those running the malware called Microsoft Windows? | May 22 17:12 |
| DaemonFC | if they start putting Linux on everything by default, it doesn't change the fact that users are still easy to deceive | May 22 17:18 |
| DaemonFC | you'd still have the lady that was unaware she spent $50 on a computer virus | May 22 17:18 |
| Grommet | yeah | May 22 17:19 |
| DaemonFC | only she'd be on Linux and running the same kind of stuff | May 22 17:19 |
| Grommet | and windows is used to being the target | May 22 17:19 |
| DaemonFC | well, all kinds of users end up with Windows | May 22 17:19 |
| DaemonFC | only a few choose Linux | May 22 17:20 |
| DaemonFC | so you don't really have a representative sample of the market on Linux | May 22 17:20 |
| DaemonFC | my point is that if you did, then there's nothing stopping a user from voluntarily running deceptive software | May 22 17:20 |
| DaemonFC | and security holes affecting Linux get patched in things like Firefox too | May 22 17:20 |
| DaemonFC | so I'm sure that while harder to simply break in, there would be more than a few users that let it in | May 22 17:21 |
| DaemonFC | and there are a lot of really clever people that write computer viruses, I'm certain they'd think of something | May 22 17:21 |
| schestowitz | Replicating viruses? | May 22 17:22 |
| schestowitz | How? | May 22 17:22 |
| schestowitz | E-mail attachment? | May 22 17:23 |
| DaemonFC | ever since Yahoo opened that Yahoo Answers thing, you see all the dumbest people asking questions there | May 22 17:23 |
| schestowitz | It's not click to run | May 22 17:23 |
| schestowitz | Haha. "@schestowitz: Obama is a very illusive president. At least with the Bush administration it was more clearer what their objectives were." | May 22 17:23 |
| DaemonFC | you could hide malicious actions as part of a standard RPM/DEB file | May 22 17:23 |
| DaemonFC | and once it's running elevated, there you go | May 22 17:24 |
| schestowitz | Lobby for no-bulls* Obama. Have him say the truth | May 22 17:24 |
| schestowitz | "Wanted dead and alive... bribe it on.... nukeelar missiles..." | May 22 17:24 |
| DaemonFC | uhhhm | May 22 17:24 |
| DaemonFC | elusive | May 22 17:24 |
| DaemonFC | more clear | May 22 17:24 |
| DaemonFC | or clearer | May 22 17:24 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 17:24 |
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| DaemonFC | utorrent's website is down | May 22 17:25 |
| DaemonFC | "It's not just you! http://utorrent.com looks down from here." | May 22 17:26 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 22 17:26 |
| DaemonFC | http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/ | May 22 17:26 |
| DaemonFC | hehehe | May 22 17:26 |
| schestowitz | Reason? | May 22 17:27 |
| schestowitz | We had a DDoS on us a short while ago. I scared it away with tessier's cript | May 22 17:27 |
| DaemonFC | who knows | May 22 17:28 |
| Omar871 | Guys where in FSDaily do you think I should publish this post: http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/052109-ex-microsoftie-free-software-will-kill.html ? | May 22 17:28 |
| schestowitz | Omar871: it's from Microsoft Shill Oneal | May 22 17:29 |
| schestowitz | Niel | May 22 17:29 |
| Omar871 | schestowitz: Regardless, it's a good post. | May 22 17:30 |
| schestowitz | When two MSFTers say Microsoft is doomed I look suspiciously and cautiously. | May 22 17:30 |
| Omar871 | schestowitz: Screw "Shill" O'Neill, Keith Curtis ROCKS!! | May 22 17:30 |
| schestowitz | Omar871: go ahead | May 22 17:30 |
| Omar871 | schestowitz: Not when one of them emphasizes that he's a Linux guru. | May 22 17:31 |
| Omar871 | schestowitz: No, I meant in which section? Business or Community? | May 22 17:31 |
| schestowitz | Guru? | May 22 17:31 |
| schestowitz | None of them is | May 22 17:32 |
| Omar871 | schestowitz: Yup | May 22 17:32 |
| schestowitz | The Shill (ONiel) never even tried the thing AFAIK | May 22 17:32 |
| Omar871 | schestowitz: Keith Curtis is. | May 22 17:32 |
| schestowitz | Omar871: doesn't matter which section. Put the URL here, though. I'd support it | May 22 17:32 |
| schestowitz | Omar871: he's new to it | May 22 17:32 |
| Omar871 | From the post---> "Oh yeah, Curtis is not afraid to speak his mind as a Linux guru, either. " | May 22 17:33 |
| Omar871 | schestowitz: Article posted. :) | May 22 17:34 |
| Omar871 | In the Business section. | May 22 17:34 |
| DaemonFC | A known trojan exploiting a vulnerability involving Apple Remote Desktop started to be distributed via LimeWire in mid 2008. It affects users of Mac OS X Tiger and Leopard.[7] | May 22 17:35 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 22 17:35 |
| Omar871 | lol | May 22 17:35 |
| Omar871 | DaemonFC: Amazing. | May 22 17:36 |
| schestowitz | Omar871: just because of Softie said it about another doesn't mean guruism | May 22 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Maybe I'm wrong, but I digress. He's still quite new to it. | May 22 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Here's is the "paranoid side" of one's mind: | May 22 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft loves sending out self-appointed FOSS 'gurus' | May 22 17:38 |
| schestowitz | People like Ramji, who are from proprietary sw companies | May 22 17:38 |
| schestowitz | They don't even know SIMPLE things like how the GPL work | May 22 17:38 |
| schestowitz | *works | May 22 17:38 |
| Omar871 | schestowitz: Regardless, I still believe that his presence as an Ex-Microsoftie in the FOSS world can be a great asset to us. | May 22 17:38 |
| schestowitz | They just infiltrate the community and can do all sorts of damage | May 22 17:39 |
| schestowitz | Like that Levy guy and his Black Duck Software BS | May 22 17:39 |
| schestowitz | Proprietary sw leeching off FOSS and off Palamida | May 22 17:39 |
| schestowitz | Then bring in Microsoft to FOSS | May 22 17:39 |
| schestowitz | Omar871: we shall live and see. | May 22 17:39 |
| schestowitz | He has friends at Microsoft | May 22 17:39 |
| schestowitz | Former colleagues | May 22 17:39 |
| Omar871 | schestowitz: Yup | May 22 17:39 |
| schestowitz | He's loyal to them too | May 22 17:39 |
| tessier | schestowitz: How's the new machine doing? | May 22 17:40 |
| tessier | A short DOS eh? | May 22 17:40 |
| Omar871 | schestowitz: This doesn't really matter, does it? | May 22 17:40 |
| tessier | The firewall rules are in place so hopefully it passed quickly. | May 22 17:40 |
| Omar871 | schestowitz: Plus, and this is really important, paranoia will never get us anywhere. | May 22 17:40 |
| schestowitz | Palin Email Hacker Says Emails Were Public Record... So No Crime? < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090521/1806144966.shtml > | May 22 17:42 |
| schestowitz | tessier: aye | May 22 17:42 |
| schestowitz | Short one | May 22 17:42 |
| schestowitz | I ran the firewal.sh | May 22 17:42 |
| schestowitz | I ran the firewall.sh script | May 22 17:42 |
| schestowitz | Then id died out | May 22 17:42 |
| tessier | In fact it probably would have been a much longer script had it not been for the firewall stuff | May 22 17:42 |
| schestowitz | Maybe not related to it | May 22 17:42 |
| tessier | Actually I ran that script last night. No need to run it again. | May 22 17:42 |
| schestowitz | I thought so | May 22 17:42 |
| tessier | That script puts firewall rules in place which filter the attack automatically | May 22 17:42 |
| tessier | I do need to put the script in the init scripts so it happens automatically though... | May 22 17:43 |
| schestowitz | tessier: the new machine is great | May 22 17:43 |
| tessier | Right now I would have to run it manually after a reboot. | May 22 17:43 |
| schestowitz | I checked files one by one (sort of) to see if the old server (before DDOS) is identical. | May 22 17:43 |
| tessier | Cool. Don't forget you have root via sudo now so you can look at the logs or whatever. | May 22 17:43 |
| schestowitz | I found the logs | May 22 17:43 |
| schestowitz | I parse them locally | May 22 17:43 |
| schestowitz | We lost some traffic due to downtimes (Google and all), but can regain it | May 22 17:44 |
| schestowitz | tessier: ever used Urchin? It's HUGE | May 22 17:44 |
| schestowitz | I took the old logs off the account (March-May) to compact the home dir. | May 22 17:45 |
| schestowitz | May 1-14 was 50 MB compressed | May 22 17:45 |
| tessier | I know one of the guys who wrote urchin originally. | May 22 17:45 |
| schestowitz | tessier: made money from Google takeover, eh? | May 22 17:46 |
| tessier | Not sure. | May 22 17:46 |
| tessier | Probably | May 22 17:46 |
| schestowitz | I don't think they disclosed amount | May 22 17:46 |
| schestowitz | Let me check | May 22 17:46 |
| schestowitz | http://www.seroundtable.com/archives/001729.html | May 22 17:47 |
| schestowitz | "Battellemedia heard the price on the purchase was in the ballpark of $30 million." | May 22 17:47 |
| schestowitz | http://bermanexposed.org/facts | May 22 17:51 |
| schestowitz | Different Berman in the news: http://techdirt.com/articles/20090520/0103474940.shtml (Howard Berman Looks To Send More Hated US IP Cops Around The Globe) | May 22 17:51 |
| schestowitz | Student Who Witnessed Murder Trying To Use Journalism Shield Law < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090520/0219554944.shtml > | May 22 17:52 |
| schestowitz | As the human species expands, little room is left to evolution's wonders http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/22/tas_gets_really_helpful_help/ | May 22 17:53 |
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| schestowitz | This is funny. I call Forrester "shills for hire" in twitter and now they 'follow' me (just minutes later). "Forrester Research (forrester) is now following your updates on Twitter." | May 22 17:55 |
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| schestowitz | tessier: let me know when you want some banner added for yourself | May 22 17:56 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: THe Mormons are advertising on the Sci Fi Channel now | May 22 17:56 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 17:57 |
| schestowitz | Matt Asay is a mormon | May 22 17:57 |
| schestowitz | People associate it wrongly with polygamy | May 22 17:57 |
| MinceR | s/rm/r/ | May 22 17:57 |
| MinceR | :> | May 22 17:57 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, they're just bigots | May 22 17:57 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: hehe | May 22 17:57 |
| schestowitz | he won't understand sed | May 22 17:58 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(video_game) | May 22 17:58 |
| schestowitz | A lot of Novell employees are Mormons too if that matters | May 22 17:58 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 17:58 |
| DaemonFC | oh you're just saying that so I'll dislike them more | May 22 17:58 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 22 17:58 |
| schestowitz | Oh, Asay too was a Novell employee | May 22 17:58 |
| schestowitz | Lauren Hill: That Thing | May 22 17:59 |
| DaemonFC | that game runs perfectly on Wine | May 22 17:59 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 17:59 |
| mib_mqmao7 | Hi Roy, this is chips, I did not see a way to add my name this time | May 22 18:00 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: i don't expect him to, he's a crApple cultist :> | May 22 18:01 |
| mib_mqmao7 | Roy, was Goblin able to send you the information? | May 22 18:01 |
| DaemonFC | meh, I collect operating systems | May 22 18:01 |
| DaemonFC | good to know them I suppose | May 22 18:01 |
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| DaemonFC | Novell actually has more C# in their OS than Windows Vista | May 22 18:02 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 22 18:02 |
| DaemonFC | the interesting thing about C# is that there are ways to view the source easily, even if it hasn't been open sourced | May 22 18:03 |
| DaemonFC | I would assume it would be easier to allege impropriety if you developed something similar | May 22 18:03 |
| Omar871 | http://www.fsdaily.com/Business/Ex_Microsoftie_Free_software_will_kill_Redmond-1 | May 22 18:04 |
| DaemonFC | I don't know about kill | May 22 18:04 |
| DaemonFC | but it will make them much smaller | May 22 18:04 |
| DaemonFC | maybe rethink their hostility | May 22 18:05 |
| schestowitz | tessier: is an outgoing mail server possible to enable on the VM? WordPress sends out notifications by mail. | May 22 18:05 |
| schestowitz | mib_lvp5dj: chips? | May 22 18:06 |
| mib_lvp5dj | yes | May 22 18:06 |
| schestowitz | Goblin wasn't here | May 22 18:06 |
| schestowitz | Do you know who attacks the site? | May 22 18:06 |
| mib_lvp5dj | i pm you a file on the ddos | May 22 18:06 |
| mib_lvp5dj | its in there, I think so | May 22 18:06 |
| DaemonFC | if they have that much bandwidth, it's probably someone controlling a bunch of botnet virus-infected PCs | May 22 18:07 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I could be wrong, you decide | May 22 18:07 |
| DaemonFC | Conficker is still gobbling up 50,000 PCs per day | May 22 18:08 |
| schestowitz | mib_lvp5dj: thanks, saved | May 22 18:10 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: says who? | May 22 18:10 |
| schestowitz | Symantec? | May 22 18:10 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | May 22 18:10 |
| schestowitz | Maybe it's more | May 22 18:10 |
| schestowitz | Maybe less | May 22 18:10 |
| DaemonFC | that's still an arming figure | May 22 18:11 |
| schestowitz | They are a business, not a convoy for answers | May 22 18:11 |
| DaemonFC | with that many PCs it'll soon be the biggest botnet ever | May 22 18:11 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: not really | May 22 18:11 |
| schestowitz | 99% of Windows (or 98%) is vulnerable | May 22 18:11 |
| DaemonFC | there are multiple varients, if you know how they work you can protect against them | May 22 18:12 |
| schestowitz | Secunia, 98.1% Of All Windows Users Unpatched < http://www.noeman.org/gsm/internet-computers/72276-secunia-98-1-all-windows-users-unpatched.html > | May 22 18:12 |
| DaemonFC | one exploits the RPC server bug that was patched last month | May 22 18:12 |
| DaemonFC | one exploits a bug from November | May 22 18:12 |
| DaemonFC | one launches itself from USB keys using AutoRun | May 22 18:12 |
| DaemonFC | mine is patched | May 22 18:13 |
| DaemonFC | but yeah, a lot of people disable auto updates | May 22 18:13 |
| tessier | schestowitz: Yes. I will configure an outgoing mail server... | May 22 18:13 |
| DaemonFC | mostly because they're using pirate Windows and that's one way Microsoft can shut it down | May 22 18:13 |
| tessier | DaemonFC: Auto-updates are funny and dangerous. | May 22 18:13 |
| DaemonFC | and that post is from September | May 22 18:13 |
| mib_lvp5dj | actually the conflicker that infects from usb, does not even need autorun, it will still infected, even patched when u open that infected flash drive. Unless and antivirus catches it | May 22 18:14 |
| tessier | DaemonFC: A couple of months ago one of my colleagues burned a Linux distro on his Windows machine and left it in the CD ROM drive. | May 22 18:14 |
| tessier | DaemonFC: He did that on a Monday. Then he went home. | May 22 18:14 |
| tessier | DaemonFC: Guess what? The next day was Patch Tuesday. | May 22 18:14 |
| tessier | His Windows box auto-updated, rebooted, CD ROM was set to boot first in the BIOS, and the CD ROM (which had a kickstart file on it, the install-CD for our appliance OS) installed itself over his Windows box. | May 22 18:15 |
| DaemonFC | I don't load unscanned USB sticks anyway | May 22 18:15 |
| DaemonFC | uhhhm | May 22 18:15 |
| schestowitz | tessier: thanks! | May 22 18:15 |
| DaemonFC | unattended installer? | May 22 18:15 |
| schestowitz | It's like in a film | May 22 18:15 |
| schestowitz | With brooms dancing all night | May 22 18:16 |
| schestowitz | Secunia, 98.1% Of All Windows Users Unpatched < http://www.noeman.org/gsm/internet-computers/72276-secunia-98-1-all-windows-users-unpatched.html > | May 22 18:16 |
| schestowitz | Oops. | May 22 18:16 |
| schestowitz | disney fantasia The Sorcerer's Apprentice with Mickey < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD8HDta7Z_4 > | May 22 18:17 |
| DaemonFC | there are no post-sp2 updates yet | May 22 18:17 |
| DaemonFC | just Windows Defender signatures | May 22 18:18 |
| DaemonFC | makes me wonder if I'm unpatched for anything yet :P | May 22 18:19 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I have only one XP installation left on an old 16g drive. But do have several in Virtualbox that I use, those do not have all the sercurity features installed, as I only use one program with XP in a VM | May 22 18:19 |
| mib_lvp5dj | It takes me a full day to setup xp with an intergrated slipstream cd | May 22 18:20 |
| tessier | DaemonFC: Yes, unattended installer. That's the whole point of kickstart | May 22 18:21 |
| DaemonFC | making an integrated XP disc is a pain in the ass | May 22 18:21 |
| *schestowitz never installed a Windows later than Win98 (from QuickRestore CD) | May 22 18:21 | |
| mib_lvp5dj | to get the security into something halfway reasonable | May 22 18:21 |
| DaemonFC | making an integrated Vista disc is not possible | May 22 18:21 |
| schestowitz | tessier: there was a similar real story | May 22 18:21 |
| schestowitz | A Mandriva guy | May 22 18:21 |
| schestowitz | Let me search | May 22 18:22 |
| schestowitz | Actually, I once tried installing Win2000 and it failed | May 22 18:22 |
| mib_lvp5dj | DaemonFC, Vista will never touch my machines, i just not into pain | May 22 18:22 |
| schestowitz | (Way back when it was new) | May 22 18:22 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 2000 was pretty easy to install | May 22 18:22 |
| schestowitz | (it lacked driver) | May 22 18:22 |
| schestowitz | There was win98 on some laptop | May 22 18:23 |
| schestowitz | From last decade | May 22 18:23 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, you need to assemble a drivers disc | May 22 18:23 |
| DaemonFC | burn them to a CD-R | May 22 18:23 |
| DaemonFC | or put them on a USB key | May 22 18:23 |
| mib_lvp5dj | some hardware would never get those drivers | May 22 18:23 |
| DaemonFC | those restore discs usualyl have drivers for everything they shipped your system with | May 22 18:24 |
| mib_lvp5dj | windows is famous to obsoleting hardware with new windows versions | May 22 18:24 |
| DaemonFC | you can do the same thing with integration utilities | May 22 18:24 |
| DaemonFC | Windows doesn't really | May 22 18:24 |
| DaemonFC | if there's a driver it will work, the company that made the device makes the drivers | May 22 18:24 |
| DaemonFC | (or doesn't) | May 22 18:24 |
| mib_lvp5dj | if you had a machine that ran on 98, that does not mean there will be drivers for 2000 or xp | May 22 18:25 |
| DaemonFC | right, cause Microsoft doesn't make the drivers | May 22 18:25 |
| DaemonFC | and sometimes the earlier version's driver runs on the new version | May 22 18:25 |
| DaemonFC | sometimes it doesn't | May 22 18:25 |
| mib_lvp5dj | and niether will the manufacturers, always provide an updated driver | May 22 18:25 |
| DaemonFC | that's what I mean | May 22 18:26 |
| DaemonFC | cause they want to sell you more shit | May 22 18:26 |
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| DaemonFC | best way to do it is not make a new driver | May 22 18:26 |
| mib_lvp5dj | used to buy components out of a dollar junkbox at the computer stores for a long time, almost always they worked, but mostly they did not have the drivers | May 22 18:26 |
| mib_lvp5dj | for 2000 and xp | May 22 18:27 |
| mib_lvp5dj | DaemonFC, agreed | May 22 18:27 |
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| DaemonFC | HP and Creative are the worst | May 22 18:28 |
| DaemonFC | about that | May 22 18:28 |
| mib_lvp5dj | still, its an expensive lession for the public when M$ changes its driver model so often with new windows releases | May 22 18:28 |
| DaemonFC | but you also need proprietary drivers for Linux to use the Creative X-Fi | May 22 18:28 |
| DaemonFC | and they're buggy as hell | May 22 18:28 |
| DaemonFC | so the same thing can happen to Linux | May 22 18:29 |
| DaemonFC | with devices "dropped" because of no drivers for the new kernel | May 22 18:29 |
| schestowitz | I didn't know Kohei had a blog... http://kohei.us/2009/05/22/range-selection-and-cursor/ | May 22 18:29 |
| mib_lvp5dj | believe Creative X-fi had a major bug problem with it Vista drivers too when released | May 22 18:30 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 22 18:30 |
| schestowitz | Some guy hacked on it | May 22 18:30 |
| schestowitz | The hunted by Creative | May 22 18:30 |
| mib_lvp5dj | yes, it was a scandel | May 22 18:30 |
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| schestowitz | http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?board.id=soundblaster&thread.id=116332&view=by_date_ascending&page=1 | May 22 18:31 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/04/creative_restores_home_brew_vista_driver_links/ | May 22 18:31 |
| schestowitz | Why Vista sounds worse http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/jan/31/microsoft.technology | May 22 18:31 |
| schestowitz | http://darkness.codefu.org/wordpress/2007/12/15/292 | May 22 18:31 |
| mib_lvp5dj | sounded like they wanted users to buy the next version of soundblaster | May 22 18:31 |
| schestowitz | Users? | May 22 18:32 |
| schestowitz | Or customers? | May 22 18:32 |
| schestowitz | This is h/w | May 22 18:32 |
| mib_lvp5dj | yes | May 22 18:32 |
| schestowitz | Creative developer a bad name for itself | May 22 18:32 |
| mib_lvp5dj | customers | May 22 18:32 |
| mib_lvp5dj | last board I got was a soundblaster live | May 22 18:33 |
| mib_lvp5dj | no more | May 22 18:33 |
| mib_lvp5dj | just look at how Vista with its protected video pipeline bs, (drm) has obsoleted almost every TV card made | May 22 18:34 |
| DaemonFC | it's not really Vista's fault on that account | May 22 18:35 |
| DaemonFC | Creative makes shit drivers | May 22 18:36 |
| DaemonFC | and drops them every chance they get to sell you identical hardware | May 22 18:36 |
| mib_lvp5dj | not that digital tv in some way was not going to do anyway, but still you could use a digital converter box with those old tv cards to extend them | May 22 18:36 |
| DaemonFC | with new drivers | May 22 18:36 |
| DaemonFC | fuck them | May 22 18:36 |
| DaemonFC | they sold me their last device with that webcam | May 22 18:36 |
| DaemonFC | they rolled out that webcam I bought right before Vista launched then never made a Vista driver, so I had to hack on the XP one | May 22 18:37 |
| DaemonFC | at least Logitech says there will be a Windows 7 driver | May 22 18:37 |
| DaemonFC | I mean, Creative doesn't even stand behind products that are only a year old | May 22 18:37 |
| DaemonFC | that doesn't say much about them | May 22 18:37 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I will never buy from creative again, its not really the same company anymore | May 22 18:38 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Roy made a good point about no windows 2000 driver for his 98 laptop. It about all the hardware that M$ leaves as orphans, with no drivers. They did it in a major way with printers in Vista | May 22 18:39 |
| DaemonFC | they don't orphan anything | May 22 18:40 |
| DaemonFC | the company that makes the drivers does | May 22 18:40 |
| mib_lvp5dj | no they just moved on | May 22 18:40 |
| DaemonFC | if there were WDM drivers for 98 | May 22 18:40 |
| DaemonFC | they will work with Windows 2000 | May 22 18:40 |
| mib_lvp5dj | not all | May 22 18:41 |
| schestowitz | Companies sometimes supply the driver to the platform | May 22 18:41 |
| schestowitz | Works well for Lnux | May 22 18:41 |
| schestowitz | *Linux | May 22 18:41 |
| DaemonFC | the driver model changes sometimes, but the companies that want to sell you new hardware never make a new driver | May 22 18:41 |
| schestowitz | So Microsoft's excuses are few | May 22 18:41 |
| *schestowitz taking off, back in 2 hours | May 22 18:41 | |
| DaemonFC | no, HP only open sources their printer drivers for Linux | May 22 18:41 |
| DaemonFC | their Windows ones are proprietary | May 22 18:42 |
| DaemonFC | all MS is licensed to do is redistribute | May 22 18:42 |
| DaemonFC | they want their printers to be more popular, that's why they release Linux drivers | May 22 18:42 |
| mib_lvp5dj | MS does make some drivers, or uses the companies drivers on their install disk | May 22 18:42 |
| DaemonFC | and the printers themselves are rigged anyway | May 22 18:42 |
| DaemonFC | the printers have a limit set to how many pages they can print | May 22 18:43 |
| tessier | Judge Reviewing Pirate Bay Trial Bias Is Removed | May 22 18:43 |
| tessier | Woohoo! | May 22 18:43 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Companies themselves may go out of business between windows releases, so once the drivers change, if you cannot use the old windows driver, you may be out of luck | May 22 18:43 |
| DaemonFC | the one that convicted them was removed? | May 22 18:43 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, but that's not Microsoft's fault | May 22 18:43 |
| mib_lvp5dj | its M$ fault for changing the driver model so often | May 22 18:44 |
| DaemonFC | what are they supposed to do? Never improve the driver model so that 15 year old hardware from Windows 95 all works? | May 22 18:44 |
| tessier | No, not the one that convicted him. | May 22 18:44 |
| tessier | The one reviewing the one...it's weird. | May 22 18:44 |
| mib_lvp5dj | M$ changes the driver model every other release | May 22 18:44 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft hadn't changed the driver model from Windows 98 to XP | May 22 18:44 |
| DaemonFC | 98/Me/2000/XP can all use the same drivers | May 22 18:45 |
| DaemonFC | because they all use WDM | May 22 18:45 |
| DaemonFC | Vista can use WDM drivers except in cases of sound and video devices | May 22 18:45 |
| mib_lvp5dj | usually you can get most of them to work, that I would agree, but not all | May 22 18:45 |
| DaemonFC | because they reworked the god awful sound system of XP's | May 22 18:45 |
| mib_lvp5dj | but its beyond that of what the average user knows how to do, DaemonFC | May 22 18:46 |
| DaemonFC | the display drivers now use WDDM which allows for some neat new stuff | May 22 18:46 |
| DaemonFC | like for example, if the display driver crashes, the computer doesn't go down | May 22 18:46 |
| DaemonFC | I'd call 8 years of the same driver model pretty generous | May 22 18:47 |
| mib_lvp5dj | and chopped up a mp3 that played well on an old 486, when vista first came out | May 22 18:47 |
| DaemonFC | you don't even get that with Linux sometimes and never with the Mac | May 22 18:47 |
| mib_lvp5dj | disagree that its 8 years of the same driver model | May 22 18:48 |
| mib_lvp5dj | no way | May 22 18:48 |
| DaemonFC | Vista has been a mixed bag wrt to drivers. | May 22 18:48 |
| DaemonFC | ever heard "To make an omelet you have to break some eggs"? | May 22 18:48 |
| mib_lvp5dj | scambled | May 22 18:48 |
| DaemonFC | they can't support Windows 98 drivers forever | May 22 18:48 |
| DaemonFC | most, but not all of them, died with XP | May 22 18:48 |
| mib_lvp5dj | or nt4, or 2000, or xp, or 2003 | May 22 18:49 |
| DaemonFC | I've ran Windows XP drivers on Windows 98 | May 22 18:49 |
| DaemonFC | and Windows 98 drivers on Windows 2000 | May 22 18:49 |
| DaemonFC | they're pretty much interchangeable | May 22 18:49 |
| mib_lvp5dj | yes, but you DaemonFC, are far beyond what the normal windows user can do | May 22 18:49 |
| DaemonFC | Vista can also use XP network drivers in a pinch | May 22 18:49 |
| DaemonFC | they won't work worse than they did on XP | May 22 18:49 |
| DaemonFC | but you won't get NDIS 6 | May 22 18:50 |
| DaemonFC | it can also use XP video drivers, but then you only get DirectX 9 support | May 22 18:50 |
| mib_lvp5dj | yes, I have installed drivers in xp that worked in even 98, maybe half of them might work in some sort of crippled way | May 22 18:51 |
| DaemonFC | I've gotten Vista to work with twin 3dfx Voodoo 2 5500's | May 22 18:51 |
| DaemonFC | that I bought in 2001 | May 22 18:51 |
| DaemonFC | using Windows 2000 drivers | May 22 18:51 |
| DaemonFC | errr | May 22 18:51 |
| DaemonFC | Voodoo 5 5500 that is | May 22 18:51 |
| mib_lvp5dj | no hdmi on those 3dfx voodoo? | May 22 18:52 |
| DaemonFC | they still work but you can't use AERO obviously and they only go as far as DirectX 8 | May 22 18:52 |
| DaemonFC | no, jsut VGA | May 22 18:52 |
| mib_lvp5dj | ah | May 22 18:52 |
| mib_lvp5dj | so blueray movies are out | May 22 18:52 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 22 18:52 |
| DaemonFC | a lot of people were jsut getting DVD's when these were new | May 22 18:53 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I stand by my statement, that the driver model in windows, is causing a lot of hardware orphans, and a lot of pain for some users of old hardware | May 22 18:54 |
| mib_lvp5dj | also, windows 8 (not 7) will be another driver breaking release | May 22 18:54 |
| mib_lvp5dj | 8 will be a major release as opposed to Seven which is the minor | May 22 18:55 |
| DaemonFC | possibly | May 22 18:55 |
| mib_lvp5dj | 8 will still be based on NT, according to Mary Jo Folley | May 22 18:55 |
| DaemonFC | but you're looking probably 2013-2014? | May 22 18:56 |
| DaemonFC | if it doesn't get delayed? | May 22 18:56 |
| mib_lvp5dj | 2011 | May 22 18:56 |
| DaemonFC | I doubt it | May 22 18:56 |
| mib_lvp5dj | unless the EU delays it | May 22 18:56 |
| mib_lvp5dj | every 2 to 3 years | May 22 18:56 |
| mib_lvp5dj | planned, refer to S. Ballmers statement | May 22 18:57 |
| mib_lvp5dj | how else can they squeeze more out of the sick cow | May 22 18:57 |
| MinceR | new skin | May 22 18:57 |
| MinceR | some people fall for it every time | May 22 18:58 |
| mib_lvp5dj | yes | May 22 18:58 |
| Balrog_ | mib_lvp5dj: that's the reason for the driver model | May 22 18:59 |
| Balrog_ | to break 'old' hardware | May 22 18:59 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 22 18:59 |
| DaemonFC | it happens faster with Linux | May 22 19:00 |
| DaemonFC | just try to use a decent sound card or TV tuner | May 22 19:00 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Balrog, I remember M$ bragging to the OEM's that Vista would cause a surge in hardware sales. | May 22 19:00 |
| DaemonFC | I'm betting Aver will give up soon | May 22 19:00 |
| DaemonFC | if they haven't already | May 22 19:01 |
| DaemonFC | that driver hasn't been maintained since a year ago | May 22 19:01 |
| mib_lvp5dj | OEM's that are in trouble now, that are hitching to Seven, may not last the recession | May 22 19:01 |
| DaemonFC | jerry rigging hardware | May 22 19:01 |
| DaemonFC | no driver at all | May 22 19:01 |
| DaemonFC | or buy a new device in 5 years | May 22 19:01 |
| trmanco | http://www.winehq.org/announce/1.1.22 | May 22 19:01 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 19:01 |
| mib_lvp5dj | the linux driver model, is far better than windows. | May 22 19:03 |
| DaemonFC | it's not guaranteed | May 22 19:03 |
| DaemonFC | even 3 months from now they break stuff | May 22 19:03 |
| mib_lvp5dj | but at first, driver support in linux was a big problem | May 22 19:03 |
| DaemonFC | that's why nobody wants to support drivers for it | May 22 19:03 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I would say the biggest problem right now, is dropping support for older hardware in linux | May 22 19:03 |
| DaemonFC | I have plenty of stuff that doesn't work in Linux | May 22 19:04 |
| DaemonFC | from game controllers to my TV tuner | May 22 19:04 |
| mib_lvp5dj | in the kernel, you have to go back in some distro's and compile it yourself | May 22 19:04 |
| mib_lvp5dj | tv cards and scanners are still weak, but older tv cards are better supported in linux than Vista | May 22 19:05 |
| DaemonFC | http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Nisa5MFVK14/SKx9-u-zBUI/AAAAAAAAAWo/qJziBmbbJkc/s400/Linux+-+Demotivational+poster.jpg | May 22 19:06 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 19:06 |
| DaemonFC | http://rubenerd.com/uploads/graphic.debian.openssh.2.png | May 22 19:08 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Roy, did you have a chance to read the PM yet? | May 22 19:09 |
| mib_lvp5dj | just wondering if you found the information interesting | May 22 19:14 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: welcome to the third millennium! | May 22 19:18 |
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| Balrog_ | schestowitz and MinceR: looks like Palm isn't doing too well to promote the pre : <http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/22/1621243&art_pos=1> | May 22 19:25 |
| Balrog_ | "Palm Kills Community Before It Begins" | May 22 19:25 |
| Balrog_ | compare that to the iphone dev lists, that were around since the jailbreak days and are still around ... sometimes talking about iphone OS 3.0 even | May 22 19:25 |
| DaemonFC | I got a Zune for $20 on ebay | May 22 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | people can't get rid of these things | May 22 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 22 19:30 |
| trmanco | lol | May 22 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | it plays MP3 right? That's all I wanted | May 22 19:31 |
| trmanco | testing hotmail's pop3 service | May 22 19:31 |
| trmanco | it's slow | May 22 19:31 |
| DaemonFC | and it only lets you log in every 15 minutes | May 22 19:31 |
| DaemonFC | and they use non standard ports | May 22 19:31 |
| DaemonFC | and you have to use TLS | May 22 19:31 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 19:31 |
| trmanco | yeah | May 22 19:32 |
| trmanco | don't know about the ports | May 22 19:32 |
| trmanco | evolution works with out any mention of them | May 22 19:32 |
| trmanco | TLS, never knew what's the difference between ssl | May 22 19:32 |
| trmanco | I hate pop though | May 22 19:33 |
| trmanco | IMAP is great | May 22 19:33 |
| DaemonFC | well, my dad is getting laid off from Caterpillar | May 22 19:34 |
| DaemonFC | it seems like every place he finds work, it lasts a few years and they go under | May 22 19:34 |
| DaemonFC | 57 years old, he's got at least 8 years til he can retire | May 22 19:34 |
| DaemonFC | and fucking Richard Stallman is saying shit about this | May 22 19:35 |
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| DaemonFC | oh I'd like to meet that guy in person | May 22 19:35 |
| DaemonFC | he wouldn't like it | May 22 19:35 |
| mib_lvp5dj | but is RMS the cause of the layoff at catapuller? | May 22 19:36 |
| trmanco | he has to have opinion about free software, not people loosing there jobs | May 22 19:36 |
| DaemonFC | he's been urging a boycott | May 22 19:36 |
| mib_lvp5dj | its the recession | May 22 19:36 |
| DaemonFC | that guy is an irreverent asshole | May 22 19:36 |
| mib_lvp5dj | sometimes its best not to get into the "politics" | May 22 19:37 |
| DaemonFC | it's not politics | May 22 19:37 |
| DaemonFC | that's my dad | May 22 19:37 |
| DaemonFC | I'd like to meet this RMS asswipe | May 22 19:37 |
| DaemonFC | and feed him his dick | May 22 19:37 |
| DaemonFC | seriously | May 22 19:37 |
| trmanco | yeah, but people get laid off because of politics | May 22 19:37 |
| DaemonFC | the guy is a far left nutcase | May 22 19:38 |
| DaemonFC | and a traitor | May 22 19:38 |
| DaemonFC | and yeah, he is political | May 22 19:38 |
| trmanco | traitor? | May 22 19:38 |
| DaemonFC | yes, traitor | May 22 19:38 |
| trmanco | by betraying the closed source model? | May 22 19:38 |
| trmanco | :-p | May 22 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | I mean like RMS should get with Jimmy Carter | May 22 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | and find a way to smuggle weapons to the damned "Palestinians" | May 22 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | so they can blow up civilians | May 22 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | and hide behind children | May 22 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | that's what RMS is really all about | May 22 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | treason | May 22 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | he's not only an arrogant ass, he is plain stupid | May 22 19:39 |
| trmanco | heh, whatever... | May 22 19:40 |
| trmanco | I don't agree with you on this... but hey, that's your opinion... | May 22 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | he's one of these people that use their freedoms to blast the country and people that provide them | May 22 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | he's useless | May 22 19:40 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I do not know all of RMS opinions on politics, and really, I don't want to. But on freedom and software, I generally agree with RMS | May 22 19:41 |
| DaemonFC | read his blog | May 22 19:41 |
| DaemonFC | he's a bigot too | May 22 19:41 |
| DaemonFC | he's wrong, he is so wrong that even if we were in a universe where he was right, he'd still be wrong | May 22 19:41 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I can agree with you DaemonFC on a lot of things about windows, but one thing that puzzles me, is why? Why use it? | May 22 19:42 |
| DaemonFC | meh, there's good reasons for using anything | May 22 19:43 |
| DaemonFC | and bad things that can happen with anything | May 22 19:43 |
| mib_lvp5dj | yes, I would agree, but I would like to here yours | May 22 19:43 |
| mib_lvp5dj | and please don't tell me windows is more secure, I got that from Andre on MS Watch | May 22 19:44 |
| DaemonFC | hardware devices that have no Linux drivers, games that Wine can't run, and wrestling around with compilers and packaging systems on Linux for hours, thinking I fixed something, and winding up breaking it because of something stupid and specific to one distro | May 22 19:44 |
| DaemonFC | no, it's not more secure | May 22 19:44 |
| mib_lvp5dj | thx's | May 22 19:44 |
| DaemonFC | for example, if you compile and install your own kernel in Ubuntu without removing nvidia-common first | May 22 19:45 |
| DaemonFC | it will never let you uninstall that kernel | May 22 19:45 |
| DaemonFC | because it will break one of the uninstallation scripts | May 22 19:45 |
| mib_lvp5dj | mostly winmodems, some printers, half of the scanners, half of the tv cards (xp is better supported in tv cards) | May 22 19:45 |
| DaemonFC | you don't find out about this until you go to remove it though | May 22 19:45 |
| DaemonFC | oddly enough when I was wrestling around with that Foxconn bios issue | May 22 19:46 |
| mib_lvp5dj | because nvidia is a closed source driver | May 22 19:46 |
| DaemonFC | I ran into an engineer of theirs | May 22 19:46 |
| DaemonFC | who used to work at AverMedia | May 22 19:46 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I use ATI | May 22 19:46 |
| DaemonFC | he said that he wrote Linux drivers for some of their cards | May 22 19:46 |
| DaemonFC | but there wasn't much money for them | May 22 19:46 |
| DaemonFC | so they laid him off | May 22 19:46 |
| DaemonFC | right before he was going to make a driver for my model | May 22 19:46 |
| mib_lvp5dj | so which games do you play that cannot work on linux? | May 22 19:47 |
| DaemonFC | so this card will never run on Linux | May 22 19:47 |
| mib_lvp5dj | unless you write the driver | May 22 19:47 |
| DaemonFC | uhhhm, I've got quite a few, a lot will run but performance is much lower than XP or Vista | May 22 19:47 |
| DaemonFC | and some won't even install cause Wine can't cope with SecuROM | May 22 19:48 |
| DaemonFC | Oblivion Game of the Year does that | May 22 19:48 |
| mib_lvp5dj | me I only retrogame, so Linux is perfect | May 22 19:48 |
| DaemonFC | so I could install it on Windows, apply a crack, and copy it over to Wine | May 22 19:48 |
| DaemonFC | but :P | May 22 19:48 |
| DaemonFC | that's a lot of data | May 22 19:48 |
| mib_lvp5dj | how about xp in virtualbox, do you do that? | May 22 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, Wine can handle some older copy protection | May 22 19:49 |
| mib_lvp5dj | will any of those games work that way? | May 22 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | at least enough to get things installed | May 22 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 22 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | Oblivion is pretty heavy | May 22 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | however you run it, it'll have to be "native" | May 22 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | or at least as much as possible | May 22 19:50 |
| mib_lvp5dj | sure, CIV4 in wine was too heavy for my old hardware in wine, it did work, but too slow | May 22 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | you run into some of these games that use *EVERY* DirectX feature there is | May 22 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | and Wine just basically dies | May 22 19:50 |
| mib_lvp5dj | but my hardware is still single core | May 22 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | Wine has a pretty feature complete DirectX 9 | May 22 19:51 |
| DaemonFC | but performance can still be bad sometimes | May 22 19:51 |
| mib_lvp5dj | DirectX is a multimedia extenstion, which Bill Gates at one point in his life said it was one of the ways he was going stop Linux with. I can never find that quote either anymore. | May 22 19:51 |
| DaemonFC | DirectX is good and bad, good in that they add features faster than OpenGL these days, but bad in that I can't use it on my Mac or in BSD/Linux cause it's not open | May 22 19:52 |
| DaemonFC | that's probably why Gates said that | May 22 19:53 |
| DaemonFC | OpenGL consortium is descending into an incoherent bureaucracy these days | May 22 19:53 |
| mib_lvp5dj | DirectX is bad because its closed source and patented | May 22 19:53 |
| DaemonFC | that's what I said | May 22 19:53 |
| MinceR | directx is also bad because m$ controls it fully | May 22 19:53 |
| DaemonFC | and OpenGL is still bloated for games | May 22 19:53 |
| MinceR | opengl isn't only for games | May 22 19:53 |
| mib_lvp5dj | and used as a means to stop or slow down linux | May 22 19:54 |
| DaemonFC | something like MiniGL or Glide was optimal | May 22 19:54 |
| DaemonFC | vs. OpenGL | May 22 19:54 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, but what they should do is make two APIs | May 22 19:54 |
| DaemonFC | one optimized for the gaming industry | May 22 19:54 |
| MinceR | sounds like a very bad idea to me | May 22 19:54 |
| DaemonFC | and one for stuff like CAD and such | May 22 19:54 |
| DaemonFC | that's basically what they're doing | May 22 19:55 |
| mib_lvp5dj | directX is for games as formats are to MS Office | May 22 19:55 |
| DaemonFC | post-OpenGL 3 | May 22 19:55 |
| MinceR | which would they use for desktop compositing and 3d screensavers? | May 22 19:55 |
| DaemonFC | with all this talk of different "dialects" of OpenGL | May 22 19:55 |
| DaemonFC | look at their plans | May 22 19:55 |
| MinceR | by "dialects", you mean vendor-specific extensions? | May 22 19:55 |
| DaemonFC | no, I mean they've decided to split the API | May 22 19:56 |
| DaemonFC | for different purposes | May 22 19:56 |
| DaemonFC | It's all pretty vague, but they were talking about it on Wikipedia | May 22 19:56 |
| DaemonFC | and on their roadmap | May 22 19:56 |
| mib_lvp5dj | DirectX is used as a means for M$ to control the gaming platform on intel based PC's | May 22 19:57 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, but basically all Wine does is translate | May 22 19:57 |
| mib_lvp5dj | its evil in itself | May 22 19:57 |
| mib_lvp5dj | M$ would patent the air itself if they could get away with it | May 22 19:59 |
| mib_lvp5dj | DaemonFC, I too was a gamer at one point | May 22 19:59 |
| DaemonFC | no company wouldn't patent the air | May 22 19:59 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 22 19:59 |
| mib_lvp5dj | good point. lol | May 22 20:00 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, I wonder if I can sync my Zune in Linux | May 22 20:00 |
| DaemonFC | I know Rhythmbox can sync MTP devices | May 22 20:00 |
| DaemonFC | will have to wait til it gets here | May 22 20:00 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I have a scandisk mp3 player and have not tried it yet | May 22 20:01 |
| DaemonFC | it can play un-DRM'd AAC and MP3 | May 22 20:01 |
| DaemonFC | and it was cheap as all hell | May 22 20:01 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Scandisk was #2 behind Ipod last I knew, with Zune a distance 3rd in sales | May 22 20:01 |
| DaemonFC | scandisk? | May 22 20:01 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 22 20:01 |
| mib_lvp5dj | cheap is always a good deal | May 22 20:01 |
| mib_lvp5dj | but myself, I would still not buy M$, ever, but thats just me | May 22 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.sfsu.edu/~helpdesk/pics/scandisk_startup.gif | May 22 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 22 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.gdhpress.com.br/hardware/leia/cap6-6_html_2de5b411.gif | May 22 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | (old style) | May 22 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | they did explain why they chose blue at one point | May 22 20:03 |
| DaemonFC | for the BSOD | May 22 20:03 |
| mib_lvp5dj | correction=scandisk=sansa it was a birthday present | May 22 20:03 |
| DaemonFC | "The colour blue was chosen because the console colours of the Alpha, a platform that runs a version of Windows NT, could not be changed easily." | May 22 20:04 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 22 20:04 |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 22 20:05 |
| mib_lvp5dj | NT3.11, NT3.51 or NT4.0? | May 22 20:05 |
| mib_lvp5dj | most likely NT3.51 | May 22 20:05 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 2000 Beta 4 was the last version that ran on the DEC Alpha | May 22 20:05 |
| mib_lvp5dj | NT3.11 not to be confused with WFW3.11 | May 22 20:06 |
| DaemonFC | The last to support PowerPC was NT 4 which would also run on PPC Macs | May 22 20:06 |
| DaemonFC | there was no NT 3.11 | May 22 20:06 |
| DaemonFC | there was 3.1, 3.5, and 3.51 | May 22 20:06 |
| mib_lvp5dj | OS/2 had a port to the powerpc | May 22 20:06 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, Apple made a mistake choosing PowerPC | May 22 20:07 |
| DaemonFC | well, a couple really | May 22 20:07 |
| DaemonFC | The economy of scale was never there so PPC chips cost more than x86, and the performance of the PPC was never really as good as x86, and the power consumption of the G5 was just horrible | May 22 20:08 |
| mib_lvp5dj | BeOS early version also ran on powerpc | May 22 20:08 |
| mib_lvp5dj | yes | May 22 20:08 |
| DaemonFC | so in moving the Mac to x86, they took advantage of the economies of scale provided by the fact that Windows runs on those systems | May 22 20:08 |
| DaemonFC | and instead of lowering the retail price, they pocketed the difference | May 22 20:09 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 22 20:09 |
| mib_lvp5dj | anyone know what xbox360 use? Is it intel? Or powerpc (I doubt) | May 22 20:09 |
| DaemonFC | you notice that OS X was always on both platforms, they jsut never transitioned til 2005 | May 22 20:09 |
| DaemonFC | 360 uses the Xenon processor | May 22 20:10 |
| DaemonFC | a customized variant of the PPC G5 | May 22 20:10 |
| DaemonFC | with 3 cores | May 22 20:10 |
| DaemonFC | @ 3.2 Ghz | May 22 20:10 |
| mib_lvp5dj | so it needs powerpc code? | May 22 20:10 |
| DaemonFC | which explains partially why it needs that power brick | May 22 20:10 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 20:10 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, it runs a customized version of the Windows 2000 kernel | May 22 20:11 |
| mib_lvp5dj | helps to explain the overheating problem then | May 22 20:11 |
| DaemonFC | it also ships with a specialized version of DirectX 9 | May 22 20:11 |
| mib_lvp5dj | RROD and E74 issues somewhat, still its almost all bad design | May 22 20:11 |
| DaemonFC | which was really an early build of DirectX 10 | May 22 20:11 |
| DaemonFC | so it has some features of 10 | May 22 20:11 |
| DaemonFC | no, it's not really bad design, it was really unfinished | May 22 20:12 |
| DaemonFC | bad MANAGEMENT was responsible for the bad hardware | May 22 20:12 |
| DaemonFC | cause they wanted to one up Sony | May 22 20:12 |
| mib_lvp5dj | M$ must have want it that way (PowerPC on Xbox360) to prevent games from being easily hacked to run on regular windows PC's | May 22 20:12 |
| DaemonFC | if they had delayed it a year and not cheaped out on the cooling system | May 22 20:13 |
| DaemonFC | all the kinks would be worked out | May 22 20:13 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | May 22 20:13 |
| DaemonFC | cause there's a number of XBOX emulators for PC | May 22 20:13 |
| DaemonFC | that don't need to emulate the CPU instructions | May 22 20:13 |
| mib_lvp5dj | a year delay would not have made a difference, just look at how long it took M$ to turn out Vi$ta | May 22 20:13 |
| mib_lvp5dj | it might have been worse | May 22 20:14 |
| DaemonFC | meh, too many people got to hook onto Vista with their pet projects | May 22 20:14 |
| mib_lvp5dj | if possible | May 22 20:14 |
| DaemonFC | and all the really cool stuff was ditched when they started over | May 22 20:14 |
| DaemonFC | I have all the old Longhorn XP builds | May 22 20:14 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Xbox360 might have been "the system" if it was dependable, hardware wise, and had not destroyed disks | May 22 20:15 |
| DaemonFC | they worked on it for a couple years before they gave up and started over | May 22 20:15 |
| mib_lvp5dj | me too, I have all the old longhorn | May 22 20:15 |
| DaemonFC | well, that's what happens when you go with the lowest bidder | May 22 20:15 |
| DaemonFC | and cheap out on design | May 22 20:15 |
| mib_lvp5dj | up to 2003 and then stopped | May 22 20:15 |
| DaemonFC | they wanted to have the most powerful system and they weren't willing to pay to make it reliable | May 22 20:16 |
| DaemonFC | so it's a good system for the month or two it lives | May 22 20:16 |
| DaemonFC | lol | May 22 20:16 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | May 22 20:16 |
| mib_lvp5dj | its only as good as its warrenty, for 1 year, and 3 years now on RROD and E74. | May 22 20:16 |
| DaemonFC | they change their support roadmaps all the time | May 22 20:17 |
| DaemonFC | because people really don't like buying new software when they stuff they have works fine | May 22 20:17 |
| DaemonFC | so they have trouble getting people to upgrade | May 22 20:17 |
| mib_lvp5dj | but if you add in the disk scatching problem, Xbox360 is a complete waste of money | May 22 20:17 |
| DaemonFC | well, the disc scratching was only on certain drives | May 22 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | they have three suppliers | May 22 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 20:18 |
| mib_lvp5dj | some consumer group should be suing M$ back to the stone age for Xbox360 | May 22 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | and the disc drive is usually the least reliable piece of any console | May 22 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | I had to repair my PS 2 myself | May 22 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | and my PS1 had to be upside down to play discs | May 22 20:18 |
| mib_lvp5dj | me too, I have PS2 and PS1 | May 22 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | I had a warranty repair on the Thomson drive in the XBOX | May 22 20:19 |
| DaemonFC | so yeah... | May 22 20:19 |
| DaemonFC | I've got PS2 Linux on mine | May 22 20:19 |
| mib_lvp5dj | just replaced a lazer in the PS2, had two of them given to me (broken) for doing some repairs and malware cleaning on a windows pc | May 22 20:19 |
| DaemonFC | you can compile your own 2.6 kernel | May 22 20:19 |
| DaemonFC | it's actually fairly hard to get a spyware infestation without being somewhat at fault yourself | May 22 20:20 |
| DaemonFC | almost every time I've cleaned a Windows PC of spyware, there's been Limewire or such on it | May 22 20:20 |
| mib_lvp5dj | can u get extended warrenty from someone like Best Buy if you buy an XBox360 there? | May 22 20:21 |
| DaemonFC | or they were using IE 6 | May 22 20:21 |
| DaemonFC | \or they were offered a codec plugin on a Russian porn site | May 22 20:21 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 22 20:21 |
| DaemonFC | but most of the time they either ignored updates or actually installed the shit themselves | May 22 20:21 |
| mib_lvp5dj | they just need to plug it in to the internet is my experence with windows users and malware | May 22 20:21 |
| DaemonFC | not the case | May 22 20:21 |
| DaemonFC | I've never personally dealt with a virus or any spyware | May 22 20:22 |
| mib_lvp5dj | there is no such thing as "safe surfing" for windows users, although that can slow down the rate of infection | May 22 20:22 |
| DaemonFC | on any of my systems | May 22 20:22 |
| DaemonFC | there's such a thing | May 22 20:22 |
| mib_lvp5dj | yes, until the server you visit becomes infected | May 22 20:23 |
| DaemonFC | I'm not even using resident antivirus | May 22 20:23 |
| mib_lvp5dj | like MS Watch did at least once, I think twice | May 22 20:23 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I wrote about that on MS Watch, and Joe Wilcox and eweek never responded | May 22 20:23 |
| DaemonFC | judicious use of other things can keep viruses out | May 22 20:24 |
| mib_lvp5dj | a lot of sites that should be very secure get infected | May 22 20:24 |
| mib_lvp5dj | even gov sites | May 22 20:24 |
| mib_lvp5dj | it can never be completely secure on the internet DaemonFC | May 22 20:24 |
| mib_lvp5dj | even with as much as I have done to secure it | May 22 20:25 |
| DaemonFC | nothing can | May 22 20:25 |
| mib_lvp5dj | you do use a limited user account in windows? Not just he UAC in Vista/Seven which is not a true limited normal user account | May 22 20:25 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | May 22 20:26 |
| mib_lvp5dj | BTW, that limited account is not as good as the one in linux | May 22 20:26 |
| DaemonFC | and SeaMonkey is running as a low integrity process | May 22 20:26 |
| DaemonFC | http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/9341/53301281.png | May 22 20:26 |
| mib_lvp5dj | of course, would expect nothing less of u | May 22 20:26 |
| mib_lvp5dj | you use a big host file? | May 22 20:27 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 22 20:27 |
| DaemonFC | slows things down | May 22 20:27 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I even do that in linux | May 22 20:27 |
| mib_lvp5dj | blocks out most of the nasties | May 22 20:27 |
| mib_lvp5dj | huge security plus | May 22 20:27 |
| DaemonFC | brb | May 22 20:27 |
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| mib_lvp5dj | do you remove IE, Outlook, Windows Messinger, and WMP from your windows install? Completely? | May 22 20:28 |
| DaemonFC | new daily build | May 22 20:28 |
| DaemonFC | there's no Outlook in Vista | May 22 20:29 |
| DaemonFC | or Windows Messenger | May 22 20:29 |
| DaemonFC | Windows Live Messenger blocks anything that could be a virus and scans it on their server before offering it to me :) | May 22 20:29 |
| mib_lvp5dj | there is in XP, which I stopped at, although I have plenty of experience (pain)with Vista on custormer computers | May 22 20:29 |
| DaemonFC | and IE is disabled with the Security Policy editor | May 22 20:30 |
| mib_lvp5dj | if you trust just one antivirus, I do not | May 22 20:30 |
| DaemonFC | I upload anything suspicious to virus total | May 22 20:30 |
| mib_lvp5dj | removed is far better than disabled in the IE case | May 22 20:30 |
| DaemonFC | I scan everything with ClamWin | May 22 20:30 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Clamwin is very good for scanning, but no shield for XP | May 22 20:31 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I use Mike Lin's freeware | May 22 20:31 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Startupmonitor and StartupCPL | May 22 20:31 |
| DaemonFC | I just scan things before I run them | May 22 20:31 |
| mib_lvp5dj | StartupCPL is like the command line msconfig | May 22 20:32 |
| DaemonFC | MozillaZine has gone down the crapper | May 22 20:32 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 22 20:32 |
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| mib_lvp5dj | let u ucheck which programs will run at startup. Useful for installing many free antivirus and antimalware programs and then unchecking them. so only one will run as a shield, That way you can still use each to update, and scan with. You be surprized at how much stuff one antivirus program can find that another cannot | May 22 20:34 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Avira Antivir is best freeware antivirus for XP with a shield | May 22 20:35 |
| DaemonFC | too slow | May 22 20:35 |
| ReverseGTR | when has this become a guide on how to free up memory in Windoze channel? | May 22 20:35 |
| mib_lvp5dj | for the really paranoid, in xp install noscript and flashblock | May 22 20:35 |
| mib_lvp5dj | no, my point is that windows cannot be secured, no matter how much you do to it | May 22 20:36 |
| MinceR | ReverseGTR: when DaemonFC arrived | May 22 20:36 |
| mib_lvp5dj | why bother to do all this stuff, when Linux is so much more secure by default | May 22 20:36 |
| ReverseGTR | MinceR, yep, btw DaemonFC I am right now chatting from a PS3 running YDL v5 while listening to music and surting the web | May 22 20:37 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I do it because of the malware cleaning for windows users. But I not doing much now, wanted to get away from that | May 22 20:37 |
| ReverseGTR | MinceR, nothing says secure like an obscure platform :P | May 22 20:37 |
| MinceR | ReverseGTR: obscurity is far from the strongest security measure | May 22 20:38 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Then there's OS/2 v4 for you, only about 200 viruses, mostly floppy based for it | May 22 20:38 |
| ReverseGTR | MinceR, well there is really not much else you can do with an obscure platform to make it any more secure unless you run it through a VPN | May 22 20:39 |
| *DaemonFC has eComStation | May 22 20:39 | |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 20:39 |
| MinceR | ReverseGTR: you're assuming you're the only person in the world who knows your platform | May 22 20:39 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EComStation | May 22 20:40 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Mac has already passed the 6% high water mark of OS/2 warp V3, if you believe the lie of Net Apps. And still not 200 viruses, so maybe the logic of using an obscure OS is not right? | May 22 20:40 |
| DaemonFC | there's plenty of Mac viruses | May 22 20:40 |
| ReverseGTR | MinceR, lol no, I know there are others who know far more about it than me, and I don't mean only developers | May 22 20:40 |
| mib_lvp5dj | not at all, there is a lot of knowledge on this site | May 22 20:40 |
| MinceR | ReverseGTR: then you realize they could easily break into your system if its only defense was obscurity | May 22 20:41 |
| mib_lvp5dj | and more than me too | May 22 20:41 |
| ReverseGTR | mib_lvp5dj, what about Commodore Amiga? | May 22 20:41 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I know little about the Amiga | May 22 20:41 |
| MinceR | the amiga is dead :> | May 22 20:41 |
| mib_lvp5dj | so isn't Dos, I heard that somewhere, most likely from M$ | May 22 20:42 |
| mib_lvp5dj | and OS/2 | May 22 20:42 |
| ReverseGTR | mib_lvp5dj, I mean virus penetration for it, it doesn't have any administrative assigning system and all libraries are open at all levels | May 22 20:42 |
| ReverseGTR | MinceR, well it all depends on who you ask, there is still a vibrant AmigaOS emulating community | May 22 20:42 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Amiga could come back, its possible, but not likely | May 22 20:43 |
| MinceR | i know an amiga fanatic | May 22 20:43 |
| DaemonFC | http://voices.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2009/05/apple_is_slow_to_fix_java_flaw.html?wprss=securityfix | May 22 20:43 |
| ReverseGTR | mib_lvp5dj, it will be relegated to a hobby OS for sure, most of its features are being surpassed by immense hardware improvements vs price and Apple will adopt indepent resolutions in Snow Leopard | May 22 20:44 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I have one of their disks. but cannot emulate it as I do not have AMD-V | May 22 20:44 |
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| DaemonFC | "But Security Fix has found that half a year is about the average time it takes Cupertino to plug these types of holes. " | May 22 20:44 |
| ReverseGTR | mib_lvp5dj, so its relegated to hobby or fun nostalgia | May 22 20:44 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 20:44 |
| ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, if you are talking about Apple's Java implamentation its no surprise, they haven't upgraded that plug-in to the latest standard in ages | May 22 20:45 |
| mib_lvp5dj | haiku the BeOS open clone, is another example of dead | May 22 20:45 |
| mib_lvp5dj | its continues as a hobby | May 22 20:45 |
| ReverseGTR | mib_lvp5dj, I wish Haiku kept on going, it had potential and a healthy amount of ported apps including Firefox | May 22 20:45 |
| DaemonFC | I don't know, I really fail to see how a Mac is preferable to Vista | May 22 20:45 |
| DaemonFC | if it comes down to those two | May 22 20:46 |
| DaemonFC | they're more alike than different | May 22 20:46 |
| mib_lvp5dj | really, OS/2 as eComstation is the only active one | May 22 20:46 |
| DaemonFC | eComStation is a decent system, unfortunately with only one small company updating it....... | May 22 20:46 |
| DaemonFC | it'll never be anything more than a crutch for companies with old OS/2 apps | May 22 20:46 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Mac is preferable to many, because most windows users are not as knowable as you DaemonFC in securing their windows PC's from Malware | May 22 20:47 |
| MinceR | the company selling eCS has no access to many of its components :> | May 22 20:47 |
| DaemonFC | fair enough | May 22 20:47 |
| ReverseGTR | mib_lvp5dj, most Apple users arn't either :P | May 22 20:47 |
| MinceR | crApple users tend to be even less knowledgeable | May 22 20:47 |
| MinceR | remember why crApple mice have 1 button | May 22 20:47 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 22 20:47 |
| ReverseGTR | MinceR, at least Windoze makes you aware of the implications of using administrator priviledges too often | May 22 20:48 |
| DaemonFC | so I can browse with my middle finger extended at the Mac | May 22 20:48 |
| DaemonFC | and not lose any features? | May 22 20:48 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 22 20:48 |
| MinceR | ReverseGTR: via malware? :> | May 22 20:48 |
| MinceR | ReverseGTR: that feature is coming to macs too :> | May 22 20:48 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I have seen windows users bring me their computers multiple times to clean up malware. At some point it would be cheaper for them to have bought a Mac. Linux would be far cheaper, but they will not learn something, unless they shell out big bucks for hardware, ie a Mac | May 22 20:48 |
| ReverseGTR | MinceR, thats one way of learning, the other is the barrage of warnings a user gets when switching to that | May 22 20:49 |
| DaemonFC | I have never had a virus | May 22 20:49 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: because they've tested users and found that they can't tell the difference between their index and middle finger | May 22 20:49 |
| MinceR | and had to check which button is visually | May 22 20:49 |
| trmanco | [FSF] Free Software Action Alert!: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/info-fsf/2009-05/msg00004.html | May 22 20:49 |
| DaemonFC | I've only found one in 18 years of scanning for them | May 22 20:49 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 22 20:49 |
| DaemonFC | and that was before I installed it | May 22 20:49 |
| DaemonFC | and I'd say that's decent | May 22 20:49 |
| DaemonFC | the antivirus companies have overblown the problem | May 22 20:50 |
| DaemonFC | and quite often they're the cause of a lot of problems | May 22 20:50 |
| ReverseGTR | trmanco, too bad eduacating reprisentatives in the American congressional reprisentation is not a priority. Even though they are getting it from the RIAA/MPAA and such | May 22 20:50 |
| mib_lvp5dj | DaemonFC, I have have lots of viruses. But most of the time I ran as administrator and did not know any better. even though I did a lot to protect XP | May 22 20:50 |
| DaemonFC | I ran as "Administrator" from Windows 3.0 to XP | May 22 20:51 |
| DaemonFC | and sill only found the one, which I did not install | May 22 20:51 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 20:51 |
| ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, Windows 3.x has administrator mode? | May 22 20:51 |
| ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, I thought that was only in NT OSs | May 22 20:51 |
| DaemonFC | effectively yes | May 22 20:51 |
| DaemonFC | because there are no standard users | May 22 20:51 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 22 20:51 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I even got one on my limited user account but it was from a trojan that I installed that the antivirus and antimalware programs did not find | May 22 20:51 |
| ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, well then that means everything dating back to the Radio Shack Tandy is adminstrator only too :P\ | May 22 20:52 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 9x/Me had multiple logon support, but that just changed your desktop and start menu icons | May 22 20:52 |
| mib_lvp5dj | and it was a bad one, the system had to be completely reinstalled | May 22 20:52 |
| DaemonFC | you could still see all the files for everyone that used the computer | May 22 20:52 |
| MinceR | and you could log into 9x by clicking Cancel | May 22 20:53 |
| mib_lvp5dj | 9x was a single type of account, every user ran as admin | May 22 20:53 |
| DaemonFC | well, there were a number of damning limitations with 9x/Me that made them untenable | May 22 20:53 |
| MinceR | well, it was a typical m$ product | May 22 20:53 |
| mib_lvp5dj | OS/2 is also, I believe a single user account | May 22 20:54 |
| DaemonFC | no SMP support, the system got slower if you put more than 256 megs of RAM in, FAT32 sucked | May 22 20:54 |
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| DaemonFC | well, Windows 9x was just so long in the tooth that there was no pretending that it could go on any longer | May 22 20:54 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 20:54 |
| DaemonFC | bbiab | May 22 20:54 |
| mib_lvp5dj | but FAT32 is transportable more than any other system between OS'es and devices | May 22 20:55 |
| mib_lvp5dj | NTFS also helped to break quite a few backup options | May 22 20:55 |
| MinceR | i've read the palm article | May 22 20:56 |
| MinceR | apparently palm doesn't really want to succeed | May 22 20:57 |
| mib_lvp5dj | when will the vaporware filesystem "winfs" be released? | May 22 20:57 |
| ReverseGTR | mib_lvp5dj, well if Windows embraced .ext | May 22 20:57 |
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| ReverseGTR | or even .hfs | May 22 20:58 |
| DaemonFC | WinFS is not a new file system | May 22 20:58 |
| MinceR | mib_lvp5dj: never | May 22 20:58 |
| mib_lvp5dj | agreed, never | May 22 20:58 |
| DaemonFC | FAT32 also has max file limit of 4 gigs | May 22 20:58 |
| DaemonFC | so you can't store DVD ISO images | May 22 20:58 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 20:58 |
| tacone | hello | May 22 20:58 |
| ReverseGTR | MinceR, please elaborate on Palm wanting to fail? | May 22 20:58 |
| ReverseGTR | MinceR, I mean besides not including Visual Voicemail in the Pre | May 22 20:59 |
| mib_lvp5dj | DaemonFC, agreed Fat32 has a lot of problems | May 22 20:59 |
| MinceR | ReverseGTR: http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/22/1621243&art_pos=1 | May 22 20:59 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.betanews.com/article/Apple-Java-and-the-Ravenous-Bugblatter-Beast-of-Traal/1242848325 | May 22 20:59 |
| MinceR | ReverseGTR: they're showing disdain to would-be developers | May 22 20:59 |
| MinceR | ReverseGTR: for webOS | May 22 20:59 |
| MinceR | even though that's one of the things they need the most | May 22 20:59 |
| MinceR | after all, the power of palmos was partly in the software library | May 22 21:00 |
| mib_lvp5dj | DaemonFC, you can get locked into things like FAT32 and AVI, both non-free | May 22 21:00 |
| ReverseGTR | MinceR, that makes no sense considering WebOS is a HTML/CSS overlay of an API on a Linux Kernel | May 22 21:01 |
| MinceR | ReverseGTR: even then apps would need to be adjusted to it | May 22 21:01 |
| ReverseGTR | MinceR, it could be they are just freaked out about the potential of software completed before the Pre's release that could be buggy because of it | May 22 21:01 |
| MinceR | screen size, purpose, controls, etc. | May 22 21:01 |
| MinceR | they could easily disclaim responsibility for buggy third-party software | May 22 21:01 |
| ReverseGTR | MinceR, that logic may make no sense to developers who can bug test and patch the app once the Pre is out, but shareholders would freak if they saw any news of bugs | May 22 21:02 |
| MinceR | or they could tell them "ok guys, wait until release, then we'll talk" | May 22 21:02 |
| MinceR | (the pre isn't out yet?) | May 22 21:02 |
| ReverseGTR | MinceR, its pretty much BS posturing though, there is really nothing much Palm can do since they released the SDK and WebOS is based on open standards | May 22 21:02 |
| MinceR | sure, but i'd think it's in their best interests to encourage developers | May 22 21:03 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.sophos.com/klingon-anti-virus/ | May 22 21:04 |
| MinceR | lol | May 22 21:06 |
| ReverseGTR | MinceR, its probably just an issue with one head of the company conflicting with the other. CTO Mitch Allen gave a shoutout to the preDevelopementCamp, while certain shareholders pressured their legal team to send cease and disist notices | May 22 21:06 |
| DaemonFC | Pidgin 2.5.6 released, new features include............ | May 22 21:06 |
| tacone | debian packaging anyone ? | May 22 21:07 |
| DaemonFC | the ability to download it and pretend you have webcam support | May 22 21:07 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 22 21:07 |
| MinceR | whoa | May 22 21:07 |
| ReverseGTR | MinceR, Palm's issues with reigning in its own rhedoric among other things is what probably lead to the Palm Source split | May 22 21:07 |
| MinceR | do i need a webcam to pretend that? | May 22 21:07 |
| DaemonFC | yes you do | May 22 21:07 |
| DaemonFC | and one that works with the new GSPCA driver in the kernel | May 22 21:07 |
| MinceR | damn | May 22 21:07 |
| DaemonFC | and VFL2 | May 22 21:07 |
| DaemonFC | you could be out $70 by the time you realize that Linux can't see it | May 22 21:08 |
| DaemonFC | and that you couldn't do anything with it even if it did | May 22 21:08 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 21:08 |
| MinceR | i guess i'll have to pretend that i have a webcam | May 22 21:08 |
| DaemonFC | that's the spirit | May 22 21:08 |
| DaemonFC | Pidgin sucks, just for that reason, and the people behind GNOME are cloning it's lack of features and removing more features | May 22 21:09 |
| ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, I wonder if YDL will ever be compatible with the PSEye | May 22 21:09 |
| DaemonFC | even with the hideos interface of Gyachi or aMSN, you can still use your webcam | May 22 21:09 |
| DaemonFC | maybe | May 22 21:09 |
| DaemonFC | if they haven't changed the protocol in the last year | May 22 21:10 |
| DaemonFC | but with Pidgin, nyet | May 22 21:10 |
| DaemonFC | probably not | May 22 21:10 |
| DaemonFC | Why would Sony fix it? | May 22 21:10 |
| DaemonFC | they already have your money | May 22 21:10 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 22 21:10 |
| MinceR | why would i want to use a webcam with an instant messenger? :> | May 22 21:11 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR? Video calls | May 22 21:11 |
| DaemonFC | of course | May 22 21:11 |
| MinceR | synchronous communication is overrated. | May 22 21:11 |
| DaemonFC | you are like so 1999 | May 22 21:11 |
| ReverseGTR | MinceR, to show yourself to potential partners abroad in your morning glory | May 22 21:11 |
| DaemonFC | At first I thought GNOME was going to make Telepathy for a reason | May 22 21:12 |
| DaemonFC | but it's looking less and less useful every release | May 22 21:13 |
| DaemonFC | you still have to have 90% of Pidgin installed to use it | May 22 21:13 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 21:13 |
| DaemonFC | (libpurple) | May 22 21:13 |
| mib_lvp5dj | well, its non-free but skype is good for video | May 22 21:14 |
| DaemonFC | well, Ekiga is free, but considering that statistically, 99% of the people you want to talk to are on Windows or Mac and will say "What the hell is Ekiga?" | May 22 21:16 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 22 21:16 |
| mib_lvp5dj | DaenonFC, you are correct, its why I use skype | May 22 21:17 |
| schestowitz | mib_lvp5dj: yes, I got the PM | May 22 21:17 |
| schestowitz | Thanks, as I said, I kept record. Saved. | May 22 21:17 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Roy, I would not use it, the infor, but it might be useful to know who | May 22 21:17 |
| DaemonFC | http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10246768-56.html | May 22 21:17 |
| DaemonFC | Army marching toward Windows Vista | May 22 21:18 |
| mib_lvp5dj | know thy enemy | May 22 21:18 |
| DaemonFC | The Army has already moved 44,000 of its 744,000 desktops to Vista and is making the move to bolster security, according to an Army News Service article. | May 22 21:18 |
| schestowitz | Balrog_: Palm's Pre was never supposed to be 'open' | May 22 21:18 |
| mib_lvp5dj | waste of USA tax money | May 22 21:19 |
| schestowitz | They are just Linux /users/ | May 22 21:19 |
| ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, interesting since the navy stated they are going to use Linux | May 22 21:21 |
| ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, I wonder how much conflict this may cause between the branches | May 22 21:21 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I wonder about Palm using linux. Why? They bought out the remains of BeOs supposedly to use that, and then they just buried it | May 22 21:22 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Maybe its was just cheaper to rip off open source linux than the code for the old BeOS? | May 22 21:22 |
| ReverseGTR | mib_lvp5dj, you are mixing up Palm Source which is now ACCESS with Palm.inc | May 22 21:23 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: don't make physical threats | May 22 21:23 |
| ReverseGTR | mib_lvp5dj, the two companies split in 2001 | May 22 21:23 |
| schestowitz | That's the second time !! | May 22 21:23 |
| mib_lvp5dj | ah, thank you Reverse | May 22 21:23 |
| DaemonFC | must be one of those "mixed environments" | May 22 21:24 |
| schestowitz | The army Vista thing is just MS PR | May 22 21:24 |
| schestowitz | Just watch where it comes from | May 22 21:24 |
| schestowitz | Ina Friedshill | May 22 21:24 |
| DaemonFC | RMS is a kook and a traitor | May 22 21:24 |
| schestowitz | Fed right from W-E or the Vole | May 22 21:24 |
| DaemonFC | and it pisses me off when he says he's glad my dad is going to be unemployed | May 22 21:24 |
| DaemonFC | they should run over RMS with a damned Caterpiller | May 22 21:25 |
| ReverseGTR | mib_lvp5dj, it seems though ACCESS dumbed Cobalt or Palm OS6 in favor of working with developer Windriver to create a Linux distro with Palm emulator for mobiles | May 22 21:25 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: there are more jobs out there in sort of zero-sum game | May 22 21:25 |
| *neonfloss has quit ("Leaving") | May 22 21:25 | |
| schestowitz | Had Mcirosoft laid people off, others would take up its share | May 22 21:25 |
| schestowitz | Then, jobs are created | May 22 21:25 |
| ReverseGTR | mib_lvp5dj, I guess they figured BeOS didn't have enough developer support to continue pushing as a platform | May 22 21:25 |
| DaemonFC | no they aren't not here | May 22 21:25 |
| schestowitz | Probably in a company that is not managed and run by criminals (white-collar) | May 22 21:25 |
| DaemonFC | the jobs fire people then go to some third world hell pit | May 22 21:25 |
| DaemonFC | and snap people up dima a dozen | May 22 21:26 |
| DaemonFC | *dime | May 22 21:26 |
| schestowitz | I am very sorry to hear about your father | May 22 21:26 |
| ReverseGTR | mib_lvp5dj, even though imo ACCESS should just devest its stake in BeOS which they find worthless and release all of it as GPL | May 22 21:26 |
| schestowitz | So it's not as though people (even RMS) won't sympathise | May 22 21:26 |
| schestowitz | The corporation is not the person | May 22 21:26 |
| DaemonFC | I'm worried about him, he is old | May 22 21:26 |
| schestowitz | It's like a cocoon for many | May 22 21:26 |
| mib_lvp5dj | BeOS did not have developer support, true. they should have open sourced it somehow like Solaris | May 22 21:26 |
| DaemonFC | he's taking care of my step-mom who is disabled | May 22 21:26 |
| DaemonFC | and fighting the government | May 22 21:26 |
| schestowitz | Had RMS targeted one person, that would be different | May 22 21:26 |
| DaemonFC | and to have people saying things like that | May 22 21:26 |
| DaemonFC | he wouldn't say it to my face | May 22 21:27 |
| DaemonFC | cause I would do something about it | May 22 21:27 |
| DaemonFC | I would tear him in half | May 22 21:27 |
| ReverseGTR | mib_lvp5dj, unfortunately ACCESS seems to be run by a bunch of not only selfish but ignorant mofos | May 22 21:27 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 22 21:27 |
| schestowitz | I don't like ACCESS | May 22 21:27 |
| schestowitz | Lowe profile, properietary | May 22 21:27 |
| ReverseGTR | schestowitz, true, I can imagine their execs only see Linux as a sales ploy | May 22 21:28 |
| ReverseGTR | and cheap to develope | May 22 21:28 |
| DaemonFC | Any reputable Linux business would hide kooks like RMS under the rug | May 22 21:28 |
| DaemonFC | as much as possible | May 22 21:28 |
| schestowitz | Many companies do keep a distance from him | May 22 21:29 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Reverse, agreed. But you have to wonder where they get the return on just burring the product like BeOS? Now if they were connected with M$, I could see where M$ might want a competitor burried. Not that BeOS ever obtained real market share. | May 22 21:29 |
| schestowitz | But without him there would be no thriving Linux | May 22 21:29 |
| schestowitz | Manybe BSD | May 22 21:29 |
| balzac | DaemonFC: I'm starting a reputable business which will rely heavily on the Linux kernel as a part of the GNU operating system | May 22 21:29 |
| balzac | I'm a strong defender of RMS | May 22 21:29 |
| balzac | btw, what operating system do you use? | May 22 21:30 |
| DaemonFC | I don't really see any controversial and polarizing figures behind FreeBSD | May 22 21:30 |
| mib_lvp5dj | without RMS there would be no GNU/Linux | May 22 21:30 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: RMS is not the target | May 22 21:30 |
| balzac | DaemonFC probably has me on ignore | May 22 21:30 |
| schestowitz | He targets another issue | May 22 21:30 |
| balzac | he needs a banning | May 22 21:30 |
| DaemonFC | he targets a lot of issues | May 22 21:30 |
| schestowitz | So you're attacking one who attacks another problem | May 22 21:30 |
| balzac | what a snot-nosed windows fanboy | May 22 21:30 |
| DaemonFC | always siding with the bad guys | May 22 21:30 |
| DaemonFC | just read his blog | May 22 21:30 |
| schestowitz | And many people suffer from the employment turmoil right now | May 22 21:30 |
| schestowitz | RMS does not have much impact ourside FS | May 22 21:30 |
| balzac | Roy, DaemonFC has to be a troll | May 22 21:31 |
| balzac | I can't believe he's serious about software freedom | May 22 21:31 |
| DaemonFC | well, there's a line where artists rights must be respected, but abuse of customers can't be allowed | May 22 21:32 |
| DaemonFC | I don't really see too many free software figures taking a good stance on this | May 22 21:32 |
| balzac | Roy, you should tell him he can't ignore me or he'll get banned | May 22 21:32 |
| balzac | he won't even tell us what operating system he's using | May 22 21:32 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I don't think DaemonFC is a troll, or I would not bother talking with him | May 22 21:32 |
| balzac | that shouldn't be allowed | May 22 21:32 |
| ReverseGTR | mib_lvp5dj, certain companies are innept like that, ecspecially when they split off from a parent or change management. The new management may have no idea what the old was planning for some of their assets | May 22 21:32 |
| DaemonFC | I think Limewire and Bittorrent show the honor system doesn't work, but DRM rootkits are a bad thing too | May 22 21:33 |
| balzac | mib_lvp5dj: no offense, but you didn't even bother to get a nickname yet | May 22 21:33 |
| DaemonFC | It would be nice to figure out where a compromise can be struck | May 22 21:33 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Balzac, true. today there was no option for the name I could find | May 22 21:34 |
| balzac | Roy, it sucks when people can't be civil or forthright enough to not put each other on ignore | May 22 21:34 |
| DaemonFC | being in middle management in a large company is worse than it looks | May 22 21:34 |
| mib_lvp5dj | guess I need to sign up. its chips b malroy here | May 22 21:34 |
| ReverseGTR | mib_lvp5dj, for example Gateway orginonally bought the patents and the trademark of AmigaOS from ESCOM's liquidation, which was the company that bought it from Comodore. They then leased the trademark and sourcecode to for use by another company that since then has been embroiled in a legal battle over rights to sell the product of it Amiga OS4. While Gateway who has since been bought by Acer seems to have no idea they own all | May 22 21:34 |
| ReverseGTR | the rights | May 22 21:34 |
| DaemonFC | I've been in a Dilbertized cubicle farm | May 22 21:34 |
| balzac | I asked DaemonFC some simple questions after he was bagging on leading GPL-licensed projects two days in a row | May 22 21:34 |
| DaemonFC | in management :P | May 22 21:34 |
| balzac | he wouldn't answer a single question | May 22 21:34 |
| DaemonFC | never again | May 22 21:34 |
| schestowitz | "Merck employees planned to discredit and sabotage the careers of MDs who criticized the company. Merck also bullied the UK government into denying legal aid to people harmed by vioxx." http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-mar-jun.html#21%20May%202009%20%28Merck%20bullies%20and%20threatens%20detractors%29 | May 22 21:35 |
| balzac | then he put me on ignore after I confronted him about soiling your channel with dangerous inciteful language | May 22 21:35 |
| MinceR | ReverseGTR: i'd rather spare them of my "morning glory" :> | May 22 21:35 |
| balzac | they guy should get banned if he can't face a critic | May 22 21:35 |
| schestowitz | "The proposal for a right-to-repair law illustrates the harm done by proprietary software in cars." http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-mar-jun.html#21%20May%202009%20%28Proprietary%20software%20in%20cars%29 | May 22 21:35 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, there's already a clause in the DMCA that says you can bypass copy protection mechanisms for the purpose of repairing a customers computer | May 22 21:36 |
| mib_lvp5dj | DaemonFC, I do think you should think about toning down the comments about RMS | May 22 21:36 |
| ReverseGTR | MinceR, its funny how some product can be defined as "dead" even though it not only still has users but has been updated and developed, abet on a small scale | May 22 21:36 |
| MinceR | as for skype, it's fine as long as you don't want to have any control whatsoever over what code runs on your computer and what gets transmitted over your network connection | May 22 21:36 |
| ReverseGTR | MinceR, same sort of thing is happening with RISC OS | May 22 21:36 |
| DaemonFC | AmigaOS is pretty much dead | May 22 21:36 |
| MinceR | the only good things about RISC OS are some ideas in its GUI that everyone should steal | May 22 21:37 |
| mib_lvp5dj | personal attack is not a good thing | May 22 21:37 |
| MinceR | (and some that everyone has stolen already) | May 22 21:37 |
| DaemonFC | I can't blame Acer for not even noticing they used to own it through a big company they bought | May 22 21:37 |
| ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, well for all intentional purposes for commercial success it is, but it still makes a funny hobby OS to tinker around with and learn about how OSs work in general | May 22 21:37 |
| DaemonFC | so do a lot of things | May 22 21:37 |
| ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, I see the sort of value in it as an automobile enthusiast would see in a 1970s muscle car | May 22 21:37 |
| DaemonFC | I think MINIX was grossly overlooked | May 22 21:38 |
| MinceR | well, minix is still around | May 22 21:38 |
| ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, an interactive way to look at computing history and an easier why to find out "whats under the hood" | May 22 21:38 |
| MinceR | iirc there's an eu project to develop it now | May 22 21:38 |
| DaemonFC | well it never required specialty hardware either | May 22 21:38 |
| MinceR | (well, eu-funded university project) | May 22 21:38 |
| DaemonFC | and it was never closed source | May 22 21:38 |
| DaemonFC | so yeah | May 22 21:38 |
| DaemonFC | I can run MINIX on any x86 system there is | May 22 21:39 |
| DaemonFC | but unless you have an old PPC Mac laying around.... | May 22 21:39 |
| DaemonFC | no AmigaOS | May 22 21:39 |
| ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, I can also run any AmigaOS, Atari GeOS and Acorn RISC emulator on x86 too | May 22 21:39 |
| DaemonFC | then there's the "It's not open source" part | May 22 21:39 |
| ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, I can even install it without a formal partition | May 22 21:39 |
| DaemonFC | I'm still rooting for ReactOS :) | May 22 21:40 |
| ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, UAE (Universal Amiga Emulator) is open source, the only thing that is not is the kickstar ROMs and OS kernel nessisary to have the OS running on the emulator in the first place | May 22 21:40 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft is cracking the whip on OEM's and giving them the minimum specs for a Windows 7 netbook | May 22 21:41 |
| ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, but anything that is older then AmigaOS 3.9 is now under creative commons anyway | May 22 21:41 |
| ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, minimum specs to run all the nice GUI features of Windows 7? | May 22 21:42 |
| DaemonFC | looks like Windows 7 netbooks may run Aero | May 22 21:42 |
| ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, or will it be another "Vista Certified" fiasco in the making? | May 22 21:42 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 21:42 |
| DaemonFC | no, they're raising the maximum specs | May 22 21:42 |
| ReverseGTR | may run Aero? thats the least of good customer worries | May 22 21:42 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft has maximums so that laptops can't be called netbooks | May 22 21:43 |
| DaemonFC | to qualify for $15 XP | May 22 21:43 |
| *lis` has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) | May 22 21:43 | |
| MinceR | i'd expect the windows fan to root for reactos :> | May 22 21:43 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 21:43 |
| MinceR | i think they're thinking more along the lines of "crawl aero" than "run aero" | May 22 21:44 |
| MinceR | "please wait, rendering desktop icon." | May 22 21:44 |
| DaemonFC | naw | May 22 21:44 |
| DaemonFC | Aero has pretty minimal requuirements | May 22 21:44 |
| MinceR | or they'll just rename Windows Classic to Aero and point at it and say "see, it runs Aero!" | May 22 21:44 |
| DaemonFC | even Intel GMAs should run it fine | May 22 21:44 |
| MinceR | i guess i'm just jaded and cynical :> | May 22 21:45 |
| balzac | MinceR: would you ask DaemonFC if he runs windows? | May 22 21:45 |
| MinceR | balzac: he's shown plenty of vista screenshots he claimed to be his, so i'd say he does | May 22 21:46 |
| balzac | that's why he wouldn't answer me yesterday | May 22 21:46 |
| schestowitz | balzac: he does | May 22 21:46 |
| balzac | the guy is a tool | May 22 21:46 |
| MinceR | indeed | May 22 21:46 |
| DaemonFC | the slowest system I've ran Vista on was a 1.8 Ghz Sempron with 128 megs shared RAM on a Radeom 200M, and like 960 megs of RAM left for the system | May 22 21:46 |
| DaemonFC | I believe that's it | May 22 21:46 |
| balzac | he was ripping on Firefox one day, Ubuntu the next day | May 22 21:46 |
| schestowitz | brb | May 22 21:46 |
| balzac | now he's bagging on RMS | May 22 21:46 |
| tacone | http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/ms-moonlight.png | May 22 21:46 |
| tacone | that makes me always laugh | May 22 21:46 |
| DaemonFC | errr | May 22 21:47 |
| DaemonFC | 860 that was :P | May 22 21:47 |
| balzac | and he's put me on ignore for confronting him about the harm his irresponsible, inciteful language could do to BN | May 22 21:47 |
| balzac | schestowitz: when you have a guy who does not embrace the values of computer users freedom and who doesn't value your forum, you just might have a troll whose purpose is to hurt your reputation | May 22 21:48 |
| balzac | also, he's anonymous | May 22 21:48 |
| balzac | I was just thinking, you might want to be a bit paranoid about protecting the reputation of BN from a anonymous and irresponsible, bomb-throwing commenters | May 22 21:49 |
| balzac | they want to make you look radical | May 22 21:50 |
| DaemonFC | As Boris expresses his plight in one episode: "I put bomb in squirrel's briefcase and who gets blown up? Me!" | May 22 21:51 |
| balzac | he could just be an angsty teenage twerp | May 22 21:51 |
| DaemonFC | As Boris expresses his plight in one episode: "I put bomb in squirrel's briefcase and who gets blown up? Me!" | May 22 21:51 |
| DaemonFC | errr | May 22 21:51 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Badenov | May 22 21:51 |
| DaemonFC | you just reminded me of that | May 22 21:51 |
| balzac | me? | May 22 21:51 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | May 22 21:51 |
| balzac | DaemonFC: I'm not trying to pick on you, but Roy gets dogged by people looking for ammunition against him. | May 22 21:52 |
| balzac | It's just due diligence | May 22 21:52 |
| DaemonFC | a few people perhaps | May 22 21:53 |
| DaemonFC | marketing agencies that have one person with 20 accounts typing shit into twitter, digg, and amazon all day | May 22 21:53 |
| balzac | I had to call out a guy on BN who was making outrageous claims against Roy and would not disclose his identity | May 22 21:53 |
| balzac | I share my identity because I'm not a masked crusader | May 22 21:54 |
| DaemonFC | I say he invented the apostrophe | May 22 21:54 |
| DaemonFC | and perhaps the question mark | May 22 21:54 |
| balzac | I'm an entrepreneur who has a stake in protecting Roy's work from those who could hurt his reputation, even incidentally and unintentionally | May 22 21:54 |
| DaemonFC | uh huh..... | May 22 21:55 |
| balzac | yep | May 22 21:55 |
| balzac | even my own political ranting | May 22 21:56 |
| balzac | I'd be careful to claim it as my own, not representative of the work of BN | May 22 21:56 |
| balzac | and my identity is no secret | May 22 21:56 |
| balzac | Roy uncovers lots of interesting things about Microsoft which could cause them to lose marketshare if the truth becomes widely known | May 22 21:57 |
| balzac | his work has been bogged down before in squabbles between people behind pseudonyms vs Roy | May 22 21:58 |
| balzac | I'm Paul Gaskin | May 22 21:59 |
| balzac | I'm banking on the decline of microsoft's market share | May 22 21:59 |
| balzac | I just don't want anyone to be able to say BN has radical or irresponsible, anonymous participants to discredit the important work done by BN | May 22 22:00 |
| balzac | That's all there is to it. A reputation is all you've got in academia or in business and it has to be protected. | May 22 22:02 |
| mib_lvp5dj | balzac, masked crusader you might think I be, but my identity is that I am nobody of importance. To reveal my true name, would only give ammunition for the M$ shills that I have opposed at MS Watch | May 22 22:05 |
| ReverseGTR | brb | May 22 22:05 |
| *ReverseGTR has quit ("Leaving") | May 22 22:05 | |
| balzac | mib_lvp5dj: as long as anonymous users don't make irresponsible comments, it's not an issue. | May 22 22:05 |
| mib_lvp5dj | balzac, thx's. I usually can back up what I say | May 22 22:06 |
| schestowitz | balzac: what he says are not my words | May 22 22:06 |
| balzac | it's not important for people to disclose their identity unless they're saying something which could have legal repercussions | May 22 22:06 |
| schestowitz | They tried similar things with "twitter" | May 22 22:06 |
| MinceR | mib_lvp5dj: balzac doesn't understand the value of anonymity | May 22 22:06 |
| balzac | schestowitz: it's a teeny bit naive to think that you won't be smeared based on what others say | May 22 22:07 |
| mib_lvp5dj | yes | May 22 22:07 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Roy will be smeared no matter what | May 22 22:07 |
| balzac | if you follow the political blogging, you can see how Fox Noise consistently digs up the worst comments of group blog participants and then says they speak for the whole blog | May 22 22:07 |
| mib_lvp5dj | he has become too much of a trouble maker for companies like M$ or Novell | May 22 22:07 |
| balzac | DailyKos, My Left Wing, etc. | May 22 22:07 |
| balzac | And they do it to Noam Chomsky as well | May 22 22:08 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Roy educates people and that is not what M$ wants | May 22 22:08 |
| balzac | After years of seeing it happen, I can only advise a more conservative approach as you gain a higher profile, so as not to give any ammo to those who intend to smear your reputation. | May 22 22:08 |
| schestowitz | balzac: no, you're right | May 22 22:08 |
| schestowitz | I've being smeared by association | May 22 22:09 |
| schestowitz | but these smears are weak | May 22 22:09 |
| balzac | yeah, weak but sometimes effective when your opposition has a megaphone and you're a pampheteer | May 22 22:09 |
| schestowitz | balzac: do they fake "Noam Chomsky"? | May 22 22:09 |
| schestowitz | Also, RMS was smeared in this way | May 22 22:09 |
| schestowitz | Trolls of Microsoft E-mail him for replies | May 22 22:10 |
| schestowitz | Like sending him abusive videos he can't watch | May 22 22:10 |
| balzac | no, they attack chomsky for the words of others whom he once defended on a particular case at a particular time | May 22 22:10 |
| schestowitz | Wasting his time and they smearing him in public | May 22 22:10 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Roy, M$ will never love you any more | May 22 22:10 |
| balzac | later that other person writes something outrageous, and Chomsky's opponents use that talking point from then onwards | May 22 22:10 |
| schestowitz | mib_lvp5dj: :-( :-( | May 22 22:11 |
| DaemonFC | Noam Chomsky......not even going to start | May 22 22:11 |
| schestowitz | Why not? | May 22 22:11 |
| mib_lvp5dj | you and maybe even me to a far lesser extent, have hurt there bottom line by educating people | May 22 22:11 |
| balzac | DaemonFC: I don't think you ought to agree with chomsky | May 22 22:11 |
| schestowitz | he slams Caterpillar too | May 22 22:11 |
| balzac | but he's been smeared badly for being a naive academic type and daring to share his political opinions | May 22 22:12 |
| schestowitz | mib_lvp5dj: Novell's to | May 22 22:12 |
| schestowitz | They say so | May 22 22:12 |
| DaemonFC | well, what I want to know, and if anyone could entertain me for a moment.... | May 22 22:12 |
| schestowitz | MS likewise | May 22 22:12 |
| schestowitz | And Newham now | May 22 22:12 |
| schestowitz | They mentioned me in private | May 22 22:12 |
| DaemonFC | is why self-proclaimed "liberals" who value freedom and democracy | May 22 22:12 |
| mib_lvp5dj | yes, its the Novell issue that is hurting Linux in general | May 22 22:12 |
| balzac | then he gets attacked by a lawyer who doesn't care about academic standards and only seeks to persuade with emotional appeals and character attacks | May 22 22:13 |
| schestowitz | The best stuff is in USENET+mirrors | May 22 22:13 |
| DaemonFC | always support fascists, terrorists, and the most ILLIBERAL and theorcratic regimes on Earth? | May 22 22:13 |
| DaemonFC | can you tell me that? | May 22 22:13 |
| schestowitz | Me? | May 22 22:13 |
| balzac | A geeky linguist gets attacked by a seasoned, demagog, lawyer | May 22 22:13 |
| balzac | I'm speaking of Derschowitz | May 22 22:13 |
| DaemonFC | they aren't that much less destructive than the far right | May 22 22:13 |
| DaemonFC | they're like 0 and 9 on an odometer | May 22 22:13 |
| DaemonFC | so far away they're closer than they appear | May 22 22:14 |
| DaemonFC | both the left and the right are usually wrong, and the truth is somewhere in between | May 22 22:14 |
| schestowitz | Who's good then? Nixonites? | May 22 22:14 |
| mib_lvp5dj | the trouble with the far left and right is when they value their positions more than liberties | May 22 22:15 |
| DaemonFC | well, they only ever deal with abolutes | May 22 22:15 |
| balzac | DaemonFC: it's called "realpolitik", I'd say | May 22 22:15 |
| DaemonFC | that's the problem | May 22 22:15 |
| balzac | DaemonFC: "right and left" is a stale and tired metaphor | May 22 22:15 |
| balzac | I'm neither | May 22 22:16 |
| DaemonFC | It's always (example), there SHOULD be a death penalty or shouldn't be, it's never let's look at what they did | May 22 22:16 |
| *tacone has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | May 22 22:16 | |
| DaemonFC | it's either fry everyone | May 22 22:16 |
| DaemonFC | or be a total bleeding heart | May 22 22:16 |
| balzac | DaemonFC: nope | May 22 22:16 |
| schestowitz | Vancouver considers adopting free software and open standards in government < http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2009/05/vancouver-considers-adopting-free-software-and-open-standards-in-government.html > | May 22 22:16 |
| balzac | but respect RMS choice to be a hacker, to not cut his hair | May 22 22:16 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I think we digress into politics or religion, and need to keep to topic what this site is about | May 22 22:16 |
| schestowitz | Right and left is idicy | May 22 22:16 |
| schestowitz | Like there are negatives and positives | May 22 22:17 |
| schestowitz | Truth and lies | May 22 22:17 |
| balzac | he's built the strongest brand among software developers | May 22 22:17 |
| DaemonFC | I think if RMS likes the Palestinians so much he should go live THERE while he supports them | May 22 22:17 |
| schestowitz | Hot and cold tap | May 22 22:17 |
| schestowitz | Hawks and doves might make more sense | May 22 22:17 |
| schestowitz | Where hawks are usually animals | May 22 22:17 |
| schestowitz | THinking with their pricks | May 22 22:17 |
| schestowitz | mib_lvp5dj: yes, true | May 22 22:18 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.pcbsd.org/ | May 22 22:18 |
| DaemonFC | That's what I'm using on the laptop currently | May 22 22:18 |
| balzac | DaemonFC: RMS is a world citizen. He is above the fray. | May 22 22:18 |
| DaemonFC | OK, so he can go live somewhere else in the world | May 22 22:19 |
| DaemonFC | problem solved | May 22 22:19 |
| balzac | He wants computer users' freedom for everyone | May 22 22:19 |
| schestowitz | IBM's latest large migration to Linux: http://it.tmcnet.com/topics/it/articles/56635-italian-food-distributor-cuts-costs-with-ibm.htm | May 22 22:19 |
| balzac | DaemonFC: you can go live somewhere else | May 22 22:19 |
| DaemonFC | I'm not a traitor | May 22 22:19 |
| balzac | RMS is all-american. Born in New York, lives in Boston, the cradle of the revolution. | May 22 22:19 |
| schestowitz | Traitor | May 22 22:19 |
| schestowitz | ? | May 22 22:19 |
| schestowitz | He saves the country's reputation | May 22 22:19 |
| balzac | DaemonFC: who said you were a traitor? | May 22 22:19 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I am willing to move at some point if things get worse here | May 22 22:19 |
| schestowitz | By showing it's not all hawks | May 22 22:19 |
| DaemonFC | I'm saying I think RMS is | May 22 22:20 |
| balzac | and look, you're saying it from behind a pseudonym | May 22 22:20 |
| balzac | RMS publishes his opinions on Stallman.org | May 22 22:20 |
| balzac | not on gnu.org, not on fsf.org | May 22 22:20 |
| schestowitz | mib_lvp5dj: watch what Chalmers Johnson says | May 22 22:20 |
| balzac | and here you are, behind a pseudonym, saying you think RMS is a traitor to his country | May 22 22:20 |
| schestowitz | Traitor=lacking faith in oil | May 22 22:21 |
| balzac | or did you mean, a traitor to his ethnic group? | May 22 22:21 |
| mib_lvp5dj | RMS does try to keep his political opinion separate from GNU, balzac, as you pointed out | May 22 22:21 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 22 22:21 |
| mib_lvp5dj | as we should too | May 22 22:21 |
| DaemonFC | he's a traitor to the country he hides behind | May 22 22:21 |
| DaemonFC | he's a wuss | May 22 22:21 |
| balzac | because he's a critic of Israel's foreign policy (a nation, not an ethnic group) | May 22 22:21 |
| balzac | DaemonFC: look who's squeaking from behind anonymity | May 22 22:22 |
| DaemonFC | and he's a bigot | May 22 22:22 |
| DaemonFC | he supports a group that would murder me | May 22 22:22 |
| DaemonFC | without thinking twice | May 22 22:22 |
| balzac | Roy, see what I've uncovered here? | May 22 22:22 |
| balzac | such a weasel, harboring outrageous animosity towards RMS | May 22 22:22 |
| balzac | and wheedling his way in with technology talk | May 22 22:23 |
| DaemonFC | no he is the weasel | May 22 22:23 |
| DaemonFC | cause he'd never come say it to my face | May 22 22:23 |
| balzac | and he'd probably never confirm his identity | May 22 22:23 |
| balzac | after such outrageous crap he's said | May 22 22:23 |
| balzac | me? | May 22 22:23 |
| balzac | share your identity | May 22 22:23 |
| balzac | do you like to fight? | May 22 22:23 |
| DaemonFC | well, the guy has some pretty far out opinions and not only is he a traitor to the US, he's a damned bigot | May 22 22:24 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, back to topic, guys.. | May 22 22:24 |
| DaemonFC | and he'll gladly cower behind the first amendment | May 22 22:24 |
| DaemonFC | while he spews venomous hatred | May 22 22:24 |
| balzac | Dick Cheney is a traitor to the united states | May 22 22:24 |
| DaemonFC | not of the bad guys, off the people they want to murder | May 22 22:24 |
| balzac | but I have a feeling you admire Dick Cheney | May 22 22:24 |
| DaemonFC | of the people that get HANGED in IRAN | May 22 22:24 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 22 22:24 |
| balzac | But DaemonFC look how you said yesterday that a radio talk show host should be shot | May 22 22:24 |
| balzac | and you really didn't mean it | May 22 22:25 |
| DaemonFC | I think RMS is just like Rush Limbaugh | May 22 22:25 |
| mib_lvp5dj | what was the topic? | May 22 22:25 |
| schestowitz | http://www.fsf.org/news/campaigns-manager | May 22 22:25 |
| DaemonFC | only on the other side of the dial | May 22 22:25 |
| schestowitz | Seems like a nice job | May 22 22:25 |
| balzac | you just meant to see if anyone would endorse your illegal and outrageous, inciteful language | May 22 22:25 |
| schestowitz | balzac: go for it! | May 22 22:25 |
| DaemonFC | it's not illegal | May 22 22:25 |
| balzac | DaemonFC: what you said yesterday was not constitutionally protected speech | May 22 22:25 |
| schestowitz | mib_lvp5dj: let's see.... | May 22 22:26 |
| balzac | it was dangerous to an individual's life | May 22 22:26 |
| DaemonFC | no more than Rush Limbaugh and Richard Stallman calling for me to be murdered | May 22 22:26 |
| balzac | and said from behind a pseudonym | May 22 22:26 |
| *schestowitz has changed the topic to: "Chaos" [publicly logged] | May 22 22:26 | |
| balzac | DaemonFC: you're a real nut case | May 22 22:26 |
| DaemonFC | no, they both root for the people that would murder me | May 22 22:26 |
| DaemonFC | that's why there's no distinction between them | May 22 22:26 |
| balzac | I was quite right to be concerned about the possible harm to the reputation from BN from such a person as yourself | May 22 22:26 |
| balzac | DaemonFC: wtf are you talking about? | May 22 22:27 |
| DaemonFC | Stallman roots for Taliban and other Muslims that want to kill me | May 22 22:27 |
| balzac | you're crazy | May 22 22:27 |
| DaemonFC | Rush Limbaugh is a favorite of hardliner Christians | May 22 22:27 |
| DaemonFC | that want to kill me | May 22 22:27 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 22 22:27 |
| DaemonFC | so I really don't make a distinction between them because they're both bat shit crazy | May 22 22:28 |
| balzac | Roy, for attacking Firefox, Ubuntu, comparing RMS to Rush Limbaugh, and worst of all, calling for a radio talk show host to be shot, DaemonFC has earned a ban. | May 22 22:28 |
| *schestowitz has changed the topic to: "Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications" [publicly logged] | May 22 22:28 | |
| schestowitz | The Future of Television (part II) < http://www.cringely.com/2009/05/the-future-of-television-part-ii/ > | May 22 22:29 |
| balzac | that's my humble advice from a former political blogger | May 22 22:29 |
| mib_lvp5dj | you guys are talking about politics, and even while I might agree mostly with both of you, I will not engage in this. Its not the proper forum | May 22 22:29 |
| schestowitz | Agreed. | May 22 22:29 |
| DaemonFC | no, everyone is just like "RMS, OMG!!!!1111 roflz!!" | May 22 22:29 |
| DaemonFC | I don't know... | May 22 22:29 |
| balzac | it is not the forum, but it's good to know what lurks beneath DaemonFCs attacks on leading GPL-licensed projects | May 22 22:29 |
| schestowitz | http://www.fsf.org/news/campaigns-manager | May 22 22:30 |
| balzac | an insane animosity for the author of the GPL | May 22 22:30 |
| schestowitz | Go for it6 ^^ | May 22 22:30 |
| mib_lvp5dj | you only make enemies talking about politics and religion | May 22 22:30 |
| balzac | thanks Roy | May 22 22:30 |
| DaemonFC | that's not what's behind it | May 22 22:30 |
| DaemonFC | I just don't like him personally | May 22 22:30 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: enough. | May 22 22:30 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I think we get that Daemon | May 22 22:30 |
| balzac | your recommendation would be meaningful, but the salary probably wouldn't be enough, considering that Mr. Brown only gets like 70k, last I checked | May 22 22:30 |
| balzac | anyway, this episode reinforces my "pragmatic paranoia" about agent provocateurs who will do their worst to your reputation | May 22 22:32 |
| balzac | from behind cover of anonymity | May 22 22:33 |
| schestowitz | Even Cisco Isn't Too Big to Lose [to the FSF] http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2009/05/21/even-cisco-isnt-too-big-to-lose.aspx | May 22 22:33 |
| balzac | schestowitz: that'll be a good job for someone, but the salary cap is too low for me, and I wouldn't consider moving to Boston. | May 22 22:34 |
| balzac | but thanks for the suggestion. | May 22 22:34 |
| balzac | alright, back to my work... | May 22 22:35 |
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| mib_lvp5dj | Roy, GNU/Linux cannot be stopped anymore by M$. Even if the worst happened, like patent laws in Eu, and court cases, GNU/Linux would live on in other countries without those laws, or go underground. | May 22 22:37 |
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| mib_lvp5dj | M$ can only try to slow down adoption now | May 22 22:38 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Jack spreads Linux FUD by posting forum material as though it's news: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/askjack/2009/may/21/asus-linux-usb | May 22 22:40 |
| DaemonFC | hmmmm "Boycott Coca Cola Company for using paramilitaries to murder union organizers." | May 22 22:41 |
| *DaemonFC goes to grab some coke | May 22 22:41 | |
| schestowitz | mib_lvp5dj: yes, it's winning | May 22 22:41 |
| schestowitz | Seen Carla's post | May 22 22:41 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is goign BALLISTIC | May 22 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2009/05/migrating-to-li.html | May 22 22:41 |
| DaemonFC | well, that doesn't matter | May 22 22:41 |
| schestowitz | "The anti-Linux FUD has been flying thick and fast lately. It's not even interesting fresh FUD, but tired, worn-out old FUD. If you believe the headlines and all the masses of verbiage being emitted by Redmond's tame "tech" "reporter" battalions Linux desktop market share has dropped since 2001" | May 22 22:42 |
| DaemonFC | all they have to do is make PCs that can't boot Linux | May 22 22:42 |
| schestowitz | "that not having Photoshop, AutoCad, and other specialty, expensive high-end applications are deal-breakers even for people who never use them; and that users are getting stupider and more fearful, and therefore must be protected from frightening things like command-lines, skills, and knowledge." | May 22 22:42 |
| schestowitz | "Now you know it's hogwash, and I know it's hogwash, and the silly people emitting all this nonsense have never even touched a Linux computer, except to poke it with a stick. Rather than wasting time countering this tired, moldy old baloney let's move on to my Common-Sense Easy-Peasy Guide to Adopting Linux. " | May 22 22:42 |
| schestowitz | mib_lvp5dj: some people in Microsoft need to be imprisoned for things they did | May 22 22:42 |
| schestowitz | They have no shame in their slanderous attacks | May 22 22:43 |
| DaemonFC | my guess is that if there were to be laws in the US against Linux, you would have those same motherboards | May 22 22:43 |
| schestowitz | Not to mention fnding of SCO | May 22 22:43 |
| DaemonFC | EFI would make it easier to blacklist Linux systems | May 22 22:43 |
| schestowitz | Mystery virus strikes FBI, U.S. Marshals < http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10247388-83.html >. They don't say which OS | May 22 22:44 |
| DaemonFC | do they really have to? | May 22 22:44 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 22:44 |
| schestowitz | es | May 22 22:44 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 22 22:44 |
| schestowitz | When people ae murdered for land, you don't blame the 'drink company' | May 22 22:45 |
| DaemonFC | what one almost always gets the virus? | May 22 22:45 |
| schestowitz | You should tell which one | May 22 22:45 |
| DaemonFC | and it's probably already known what virus it was | May 22 22:46 |
| DaemonFC | I doubt it just STARTED spreading originating there | May 22 22:46 |
| DaemonFC | it's probably an in the wild virus and they don't want to say which one or what version of what operating system | May 22 22:46 |
| DaemonFC | 555278 signatures in ClamAV | May 22 22:47 |
| DaemonFC | is it just me or does that count go up a couple hundred every day? | May 22 22:48 |
| mib_lvp5dj | it goes up, clamwin is very complete | May 22 22:48 |
| mib_lvp5dj | its also in xp very slow scanner | May 22 22:48 |
| mib_lvp5dj | but it might have the best viral database of any antivirus | May 22 22:49 |
| schestowitz | Hhee. | May 22 22:50 |
| schestowitz | Watch this headline: | May 22 22:50 |
| schestowitz | "Monta Vista Intros Linux 6 Version" | May 22 22:50 |
| schestowitz | http://telecom-expense-management-solutions.tmcnet.com/topics/telecom-expense-management/articles/56599-monta-vista-intros-linux-6-version.htm | May 22 22:50 |
| schestowitz | This is one of the gutters out there | May 22 22:50 |
| schestowitz | The site just copies press releases and the staff doesn't even know what thhey write about | May 22 22:51 |
| schestowitz | Linux 6 Version | May 22 22:51 |
| schestowitz | Maybe they should just stick the press release and leave it untouched | May 22 22:51 |
| schestowitz | Not change stuff and pretend it's an 'article' | May 22 22:51 |
| Balrog_ | that's some embedded linux version | May 22 22:52 |
| _boo_ | it works on boards like this one: http://focus.ti.com/docs/toolsw/folders/print/tmdsevm357.html | May 22 22:54 |
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| schestowitz | Still No Chrome For Linux? < http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/05/still_no_chrome.html;jsessionid=0PUIHYPCISVYQQSNDLPSKH0CJUNN2JVN > | May 22 22:56 |
| schestowitz | Balrog_: yes, but it's MontaVista 6 | May 22 22:56 |
| schestowitz | Not Linux 6 | May 22 22:56 |
| schestowitz | Or '6 version" | May 22 22:56 |
| schestowitz | It's all just a press release | May 22 22:56 |
| schestowitz | They massage it and pretend it's an article. That's all they ever do (90% of time) | May 22 22:57 |
| schestowitz | CIOL does the same thing (India publication). TMCNet is from somewhere else, but some staff is from India too | May 22 22:57 |
| schestowitz | Not that it matters | May 22 22:57 |
| _boo_ | it's good montavista released yet another version | May 22 22:58 |
| schestowitz | But these two publications emit fodder | May 22 22:58 |
| _boo_ | those boards have rather weak support | May 22 22:58 |
| schestowitz | Does anybody want a puppy? http://news.softpedia.com/news/Puppy-Linux-4-2-1-Launched-112330.shtml | May 22 23:01 |
| DaemonFC | Google doesn't see Linux as a priority | May 22 23:03 |
| DaemonFC | they already have Linux through Firefox | May 22 23:03 |
| DaemonFC | they're trying to siphon Internet Explorer users | May 22 23:03 |
| schestowitz | Sony and Linux again: http://www.informationweek.com/news/personal_tech/smartphones/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=217600670&subSection=Operating+Systems | May 22 23:03 |
| mib_lvp5dj | DaemonFC, Google Android is basically Linux | May 22 23:04 |
| _boo_ | puppy is cool | May 22 23:04 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: Google harnesses Linux on the server and mobile | May 22 23:04 |
| schestowitz | <DaemonFC> Google doesn't see Linux as a priori | May 22 23:04 |
| schestowitz | I call BS | May 22 23:04 |
| DaemonFC | They have a heavily DRM-crippled Linux support on PS3 | May 22 23:04 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: What I mean is every copy of Firefox defaults to Google Search | May 22 23:05 |
| schestowitz | Brin uses GNU/Linux on the desktop | May 22 23:05 |
| schestowitz | Since forever | May 22 23:05 |
| _boo_ | mib_lvp5dj, google android has "google" written all ova it | May 22 23:05 |
| mib_lvp5dj | boo, is puppy still like linspire was, still run as "root"? | May 22 23:05 |
| DaemonFC | and Android uses Linux because it's there | May 22 23:05 |
| DaemonFC | they could have used BSD and done the same | May 22 23:05 |
| _boo_ | mib_lvp5dj as good as i remember, yes | May 22 23:05 |
| DaemonFC | Linspire 6 didn't run as root | May 22 23:06 |
| _boo_ | and it looks like win95 | May 22 23:06 |
| DaemonFC | it used sudo, like Ubuntu | May 22 23:06 |
| mib_lvp5dj | which has always been my objection to puppy. although its good | May 22 23:06 |
| schestowitz | High praises for Dellnux: http://blogs.computerworld.com/a_for_dells_new_ubuntu_linux_netbook (A+ for Dell's new Ubuntu Linux netbook) | May 22 23:06 |
| DaemonFC | I downloaded Linspire throught a torrent a couple of times | May 22 23:06 |
| DaemonFC | Linspire 6 was.....alright | May 22 23:06 |
| mib_lvp5dj | thx's Daemon, I stopped following Linspire long ago | May 22 23:07 |
| DaemonFC | there's a number of things they could have done better | May 22 23:07 |
| schestowitz | Pardus uses root too | May 22 23:07 |
| DaemonFC | but it was better than Kubuntu | May 22 23:07 |
| DaemonFC | I'll give them that much | May 22 23:07 |
| mib_lvp5dj | not to myself, avoid distro's that setup as root by default | May 22 23:07 |
| mib_lvp5dj | *neot | May 22 23:07 |
| mib_lvp5dj | note | May 22 23:08 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: quiet in COLA, noise-wise (yes, it sounds funny) | May 22 23:08 |
| DaemonFC | it's ok if they have you set a root password | May 22 23:08 |
| DaemonFC | but if they encourage you to log in as root, run away | May 22 23:08 |
| _boo_ | mib_lvp5dj, it's mostly for flash and almost avoids writes | May 22 23:08 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu bans you for mentioning root | May 22 23:08 |
| mib_lvp5dj | what better way to get linux into the same type of malware problems as windows than to have distros setup running as root | May 22 23:08 |
| DaemonFC | even though there are cases where sudo does not work right | May 22 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Here is the tool that NYT dumped Microsoft for: http://venturebeat.com/2009/05/22/timesreader-20s-big-goof-no-technology-section/ | May 22 23:09 |
| DaemonFC | granted those are rare, but sudo does not obsolete the root account | May 22 23:09 |
| _boo_ | mib_lvp5dj, you also have to kill repositories | May 22 23:09 |
| mib_lvp5dj | if enough linux users run as root on the internet, then malware will be written for it at a much faster rate | May 22 23:09 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 22 23:09 |
| DaemonFC | what I mean is | May 22 23:09 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Boo, good point | May 22 23:10 |
| DaemonFC | it's OK to open a root terminal emulator | May 22 23:10 |
| DaemonFC | but don't log in as root graphically | May 22 23:10 |
| _boo_ | yeah, i always do that | May 22 23:10 |
| _boo_ | not graphically of course | May 22 23:10 |
| schestowitz | Keep the users powerfless on own computer | May 22 23:10 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu expects know nothing users to mess up the system if they're handed powerful tools | May 22 23:11 |
| schestowitz | Unless qualified or entering this mode | May 22 23:11 |
| DaemonFC | so they hide away as much of that as they can | May 22 23:11 |
| schestowitz | UAC is cheap attempt to copy sudo | May 22 23:11 |
| schestowitz | And MS patented suto/UAC | May 22 23:11 |
| mib_lvp5dj | it the drive by malware on the internet we have to fear in the future. Those running as root will be the first targets. After trojans of course | May 22 23:11 |
| schestowitz | The USPTO is corrupt because it extends scope for $$$$$ | May 22 23:11 |
| DaemonFC | UAC works something like gksudo or kdesu or whatever is your poison | May 22 23:11 |
| schestowitz | Aye | May 22 23:11 |
| schestowitz | Just GUIised | May 22 23:12 |
| DaemonFC | there's cases where UAC fails, there's cases where sudo fails | May 22 23:12 |
| mib_lvp5dj | sudo sort of reminds me of Mac OS X, in that you do not know you are a limited user by default | May 22 23:12 |
| DaemonFC | setuid is the biggest disaster in UNIX file permissions ever | May 22 23:12 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 23:12 |
| *schestowitz so tried. GOnna make some tea | May 22 23:12 | |
| schestowitz | *tired | May 22 23:12 |
| DaemonFC | Windows didn't copy that | May 22 23:12 |
| DaemonFC | for obvious reasons | May 22 23:12 |
| DaemonFC | so there's gotchas either way you go | May 22 23:13 |
| DaemonFC | UAC is far better than XP-style administrators | May 22 23:13 |
| mib_lvp5dj | keep the spirits up Roy, its only when you are attacked by the shills and fanboi's that you know that you are on the right track. | May 22 23:13 |
| DaemonFC | it at least lets you lock down the most potentially damaging operations | May 22 23:13 |
| DaemonFC | but it won't catch everything | May 22 23:13 |
| _Goblin | noticed a little rumor about Microsoft removing the 3 app hobbling from starter... | May 22 23:14 |
| schestowitz | mib_lvp5dj: yes, something like that usually | May 22 23:14 |
| DaemonFC | users should remember to NEVER elevate anything that they didn't start at that moment | May 22 23:14 |
| DaemonFC | and ALWAYS look to see what is requesting elevation | May 22 23:14 |
| schestowitz | I toned down the SUSE-hostile side | May 22 23:14 |
| schestowitz | Got MASSIVELY attacked by SUSE fans a year ago | May 22 23:15 |
| _boo_ | starter edition sounds like totally castrated and hit in the head with a hammer 10 times | May 22 23:15 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Hey Goblin, chips here. Interesting about the 3 apps, the OEM's must be revolting. I PMed the file to Roy already | May 22 23:15 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: yes, Linux | May 22 23:15 |
| DaemonFC | OpenSuse is pretty decent, but it does have a lot of .Net crap that can make the system slooooooooooooooow down | May 22 23:15 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 23:15 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/vista-7-prompt.png | May 22 23:16 |
| DaemonFC | if you get rid of all of that the system perks up again | May 22 23:16 |
| DaemonFC | but damn | May 22 23:16 |
| schestowitz | _boo_: they sorted out the popup | May 22 23:16 |
| _boo_ | how slow is .net vs java? | May 22 23:16 |
| mib_lvp5dj | maybe an article on the good that Novell does Roy? The flip side, we need Novell to destroy SCO anyway | May 22 23:16 |
| DaemonFC | _boo_: .Net is a lot faster on Windows | May 22 23:16 |
| _Goblin | @roy: Like it! | May 22 23:16 |
| schestowitz | mib_lvp5dj: I write about SCO | May 22 23:16 |
| DaemonFC | because Windows uses a better compiler | May 22 23:16 |
| schestowitz | and Novell's driver work | May 22 23:16 |
| DaemonFC | (than Mono) | May 22 23:16 |
| schestowitz | We do good Novell news once a week | May 22 23:17 |
| DaemonFC | I still try to stay clear of either | May 22 23:17 |
| _boo_ | DaemonFC, i didn't see it being fast on windows | May 22 23:17 |
| schestowitz | So I'm fair to them where possible | May 22 23:17 |
| schestowitz | NOVL's results due on 26th IIRC | May 22 23:17 |
| schestowitz | From memory | May 22 23:17 |
| _boo_ | ati drivers have .net based configurator | May 22 23:17 |
| schestowitz | Be ready for the bomb | May 22 23:17 |
| mib_lvp5dj | yes, but the headline should be more advocate towards them, throw them a bone once in awhile | May 22 23:17 |
| schestowitz | They had NO CONTRACTS | May 22 23:17 |
| schestowitz | Just nothing | May 22 23:17 |
| _boo_ | adiirc irc client is .net | May 22 23:17 |
| DaemonFC | On Windows .Net by a tad, on Linux, JAVA by a landslide | May 22 23:17 |
| _boo_ | and they are effing slow | May 22 23:17 |
| schestowitz | Revenue could drop 30%+ y-2-y | May 22 23:17 |
| DaemonFC | I'd still use Java for reasons other than performance | May 22 23:17 |
| DaemonFC | Java has a better security model for one | May 22 23:18 |
| _boo_ | which .net app is fast? | May 22 23:18 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Novell would have been gone without the M$ money from their agreement | May 22 23:18 |
| schestowitz | When Novell lets the gauntlet down, it'll be big due to procrastination | May 22 23:18 |
| schestowitz | Novell deludes itself | May 22 23:18 |
| DaemonFC | _boo_: CDBurnerXP is reasonably fast on XP or 32-bit Vista | May 22 23:18 |
| schestowitz | The turning point ain't around the corner | May 22 23:18 |
| DaemonFC | it has bugs on 64-bit Windows though | May 22 23:18 |
| DaemonFC | unrelated to C# | May 22 23:18 |
| schestowitz | and SUSE lost the distro war | May 22 23:18 |
| _boo_ | yeah, cdburnerxp is good | May 22 23:19 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 22 23:19 |
| schestowitz | Its community shrank too | May 22 23:19 |
| mib_lvp5dj | _Goblin did you read the email? | May 22 23:19 |
| mib_lvp5dj | CDBurnerXP is good program | May 22 23:19 |
| DaemonFC | Paint.Net isn't bad | May 22 23:19 |
| schestowitz | mib_lvp5dj: MS needs Novell to keep going | May 22 23:19 |
| _Goblin | yep cheers! I havent had time to respond yet...but thanks and will do | May 22 23:19 |
| schestowitz | But MS is collapsing | May 22 23:19 |
| schestowitz | So another cash infusion is not likely | May 22 23:19 |
| schestowitz | They injected 200m into Novell back in August | May 22 23:19 |
| DaemonFC | there's a few decent apps out there, but nothing really helps the fact that .Net runtime is fucking huge | May 22 23:19 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 22 23:19 |
| schestowitz | Atop over a quarter of a billion | May 22 23:20 |
| schestowitz | MS uses Red Hat mainly vs Red Hat | May 22 23:20 |
| DaemonFC | and you've got nearly 2 gigs of runtime for maybe 100 megs of decent apps | May 22 23:20 |
| DaemonFC | Red Hat has good stuff | May 22 23:20 |
| schestowitz | BN runs on 'Red Hat' | May 22 23:20 |
| schestowitz | Minus the logos | May 22 23:20 |
| schestowitz | :-) | May 22 23:20 |
| _boo_ | seems like .net is the reason to use ssds | May 22 23:20 |
| DaemonFC | It's expensive to get it from them | May 22 23:21 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I agree Roy, they do need Novell to kept going. But I worry about the Unix copyrights and patents that Novell has. SCO/M$ tried to use them against IBM/Novell.autozone and Linux | May 22 23:21 |
| DaemonFC | but CentOS gets most of it eventually | May 22 23:21 |
| DaemonFC | well, legal precedent | May 22 23:21 |
| DaemonFC | that Novell set | May 22 23:21 |
| DaemonFC | may discourage them from making the same arguments | May 22 23:21 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Net is something I would not even wished on a windows fanfoi | May 22 23:21 |
| mib_lvp5dj | fanboi | May 22 23:21 |
| DaemonFC | anyone else tried PC-BSD? | May 22 23:22 |
| DaemonFC | it's not bad | May 22 23:22 |
| DaemonFC | no 64-bit Nvidia drivers though | May 22 23:22 |
| DaemonFC | so won't be going on my desktop | May 22 23:22 |
| mib_lvp5dj | and its advantage over linux? | May 22 23:22 |
| DaemonFC | meh, more stable | May 22 23:22 |
| DaemonFC | has a lot of stuff ready to go out of the box | May 22 23:22 |
| _boo_ | and no drivers for video card | May 22 23:22 |
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| DaemonFC | 32-bit Nvidia drivers are there | May 22 23:22 |
| DaemonFC | Nvidia doesn't do 64-bit BSD drivers | May 22 23:23 |
| schestowitz | Sun Java System Communications Express security advisory < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25186/53/ > | May 22 23:23 |
| _boo_ | mkay, it's a bit usable then | May 22 23:23 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Mepis is easy install for video drivers, dual monitor ATI and Nividia | May 22 23:23 |
| mib_lvp5dj | most likely some others as well | May 22 23:23 |
| DaemonFC | oh, PC-BSD has ZFS | May 22 23:23 |
| DaemonFC | hehe | May 22 23:23 |
| DaemonFC | I have ZFS on my laptop hard disk | May 22 23:23 |
| mib_lvp5dj | ZFS might be good | May 22 23:23 |
| schestowitz | mib_lvp5dj: same in Mandriva | May 22 23:23 |
| schestowitz | Multi-head | May 22 23:23 |
| DaemonFC | and it has a Linux compatibility layer | May 22 23:23 |
| Balrog_ | hopefully Oracle will dual license it | May 22 23:23 |
| mib_lvp5dj | linus thinks so | May 22 23:24 |
| schestowitz | Nvidia GUI at least | May 22 23:24 |
| schestowitz | mib_lvp5dj: can you /nick chips ? | May 22 23:24 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pc-bsd | May 22 23:24 |
| schestowitz | mib_lvp5dj is hard for me to remember identity | May 22 23:24 |
| DaemonFC | KDE 4 is actually fairly stable on BSD | May 22 23:24 |
| DaemonFC | for some reason | May 22 23:24 |
| ziggyfish | I have run ZFS before, but I needed to resize my partition, and ZFS didn't support it. so don't use it anymore | May 22 23:25 |
| MinceR | gn | May 22 23:25 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Roy, your link has no username and password today on the front page, so I could not | May 22 23:25 |
| DaemonFC | it also lets you use FreeBSD Ports or PBI installers | May 22 23:25 |
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| DaemonFC | PBI lets you double click on a package to install it | May 22 23:25 |
| ziggyfish | nice, must admit, I prefer FreeBSD over Linux | May 22 23:26 |
| MinceR | gdebi lets you single click a package to install it :> | May 22 23:26 |
| DaemonFC | where you can get it to work, FreeBSD is preferable | May 22 23:26 |
| MinceR | getting it to work is the hard part | May 22 23:27 |
| DaemonFC | not really | May 22 23:27 |
| ziggyfish | DaemonFC, I've never had a problem with BSD (for a server) | May 22 23:27 |
| DaemonFC | iwell, with PC-BSD anyway | May 22 23:27 |
| DaemonFC | has drivers dor a lot of things | May 22 23:27 |
| oiaohm | I have used both Linux and BSD for servers. | May 22 23:28 |
| ziggyfish | also I find BSD to be 'better quality' then Linux | May 22 23:28 |
| mib_lvp5dj | myself, I tend to try "live cd" linux/bsd installations. If they don't have one, I skip them anymore. Suse I skip for other reasons. Those that run as root, I skip. | May 22 23:28 |
| schestowitz | Google Chrome 2.0 released < http://www.h-online.com/open/Google-Chrome-2-0-released--/news/113349 > Google should hurry up with Chromium.. | May 22 23:29 |
| tacone | debian itself runs on bds now | May 22 23:29 |
| tacone | can run | May 22 23:29 |
| oiaohm | That depends on the Linux ziggyfish. | May 22 23:29 |
| ziggyfish | oiaohm, true | May 22 23:29 |
| MinceR | i find gnu/linux to be better quality than *bsd | May 22 23:29 |
| oiaohm | Stablity using correct quality software is quality. | May 22 23:29 |
| _boo_ | do you guys use chrome? | May 22 23:29 |
| schestowitz | > <mib_lvp5dj> Roy, your link has no username and password today on the front page, so I could not | May 22 23:29 |
| ziggyfish | schestowitz, does it have linux support, jet | May 22 23:29 |
| schestowitz | What do you mean? | May 22 23:30 |
| oiaohm | I am not bsd or gnu bias. | May 22 23:30 |
| ziggyfish | *yet | May 22 23:30 |
| _Goblin | I messed with the alpha of chrome, had no luck | May 22 23:30 |
| oiaohm | Some of my Linux's are mixed beasts. | May 22 23:30 |
| mib_lvp5dj | I have chrome on this Mepis laptop, its fast, but I still run Firefox mostly | May 22 23:30 |
| oiaohm | Some gnu software some bsd. | May 22 23:30 |
| oiaohm | For core parts. | May 22 23:30 |
| tacone | schestowitz: they're doing a nice work with chromium | May 22 23:30 |
| oiaohm | Ie using what parts work the best. | May 22 23:30 |
| tacone | the problem is that they started late. | May 22 23:30 |
| tacone | and you can install it easier in linux than in mac osx i guess. | May 22 23:31 |
| mib_lvp5dj | no adblock yet for chrome. guess I could install something like junkbuster proxy | May 22 23:31 |
| oiaohm | chrome was meant to be just a experment. | May 22 23:31 |
| schestowitz | mib_lvp5dj: what about "username and password"? | May 22 23:31 |
| schestowitz | Did we mess s/t up? | May 22 23:31 |
| mib_lvp5dj | yes, its still daily builds I think | May 22 23:31 |
| tacone | i have some visits from linux/chromium in my blog | May 22 23:31 |
| DaemonFC | Chrome is easy | May 22 23:31 |
| DaemonFC | use BFilter | May 22 23:31 |
| DaemonFC | or Privoxy | May 22 23:32 |
| oiaohm | Secuirty features of chrome will reappear in firefox. | May 22 23:32 |
| DaemonFC | BFilter is better | May 22 23:32 |
| ziggyfish | I have run chrome in Windows, and thought it was crap compared to Firefox | May 22 23:32 |
| tacone | it's so fast that using epiphany doesn't makes any sense anymore | May 22 23:32 |
| _boo_ | i don't see any reason to use chrome, it even ain't got adblock | May 22 23:32 |
| mib_lvp5dj | Roy, sure username chips_b_malroy | May 22 23:32 |
| mib_lvp5dj | boo, theres more than one way to adblock | May 22 23:33 |
| _boo_ | you mean built in chrome there's a way? | May 22 23:33 |
| tacone | chromium issue is that it has no extension at all | May 22 23:33 |
| tacone | hope firefox can catch up with its speed | May 22 23:33 |
| mib_lvp5dj | no, junkbuster is a proxy, and there are several for linux | May 22 23:33 |
| _boo_ | then it's useless | May 22 23:33 |
| oiaohm | https://wiki.mozilla.org/Content_Processes tacone | May 22 23:33 |
| schestowitz | mib_lvp5dj: type "/nick chips_" | May 22 23:34 |
| tacone | for sure chromium brought a lot of competition. that's good. | May 22 23:34 |
| oiaohm | chromium gets some of the speed from multi process. | May 22 23:34 |
| *mib_lvp5dj is now known as chips_ | May 22 23:34 | |
| schestowitz | OK | May 22 23:34 |
| chips_ | thxs Roy | May 22 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | ziggyfish: use the dev channel | May 22 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | use ChromeChannelChanger | May 22 23:34 |
| schestowitz | There are many mib users | May 22 23:34 |
| schestowitz | Makes it hard to remember who is who | May 22 23:34 |
| tacone | _boo_: ? | May 22 23:34 |
| _boo_ | first time i used chrome it wasn't even starting | May 22 23:35 |
| _boo_ | then i removed it forever | May 22 23:35 |
| tacone | oiaohm: i'm aware with mozilla attempts. | May 22 23:35 |
| tacone | i'm still waiting to see the final result | May 22 23:35 |
| tacone | _boo_: on ubuntu there's a pre-compiled PPA | May 22 23:36 |
| tacone | i can say it's pretty cool. seems to work, and fast. | May 22 23:36 |
| *_boo_ suspects that chrome is developed fast only because it doesn't do what ff does | May 22 23:36 | |
| tacone | better chromium than epiphany | May 22 23:36 |
| oiaohm | ff does have problems _boo_ | May 22 23:36 |
| DaemonFC | Take up all your RAM and crash? | May 22 23:36 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 23:36 |
| _boo_ | oh yeah, which ones? | May 22 23:36 |
| DaemonFC | Take up all your RAM and crash? | May 22 23:37 |
| DaemonFC | ;) | May 22 23:37 |
| _boo_ | i never ran into any | May 22 23:37 |
| DaemonFC | mmhm | May 22 23:37 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox bloats to 500-9000 megs of used RAM | May 22 23:37 |
| DaemonFC | after being open for several hours | May 22 23:37 |
| tacone | first builds of chromium used to make the window appear 0.5 second BEFORE your mouse click :P | May 22 23:37 |
| _boo_ | no | May 22 23:37 |
| oiaohm | lack of good system for spliting tabs into independant threads. | May 22 23:37 |
| DaemonFC | Seamonkey doesn't even have that problem | May 22 23:37 |
| _boo_ | i have it always open | May 22 23:37 |
| tacone | chromium won't be cheap in ram as well | May 22 23:37 |
| tacone | but let it at least be fast. | May 22 23:37 |
| _boo_ | and it takes: 251mb | May 22 23:37 |
| _boo_ | and it's like opened for days | May 22 23:38 |
| _boo_ | and browser games in there | May 22 23:38 |
| oiaohm | Lack of good system to split javascript into threads. | May 22 23:38 |
| tacone | really, a fast browser makes everything different. | May 22 23:38 |
| oiaohm | and processes. | May 22 23:38 |
| oiaohm | to contain memory leaks | May 22 23:38 |
| tacone | i just want the speed along with FF extensions :) | May 22 23:38 |
| oiaohm | That is something chromium got wrong. | May 22 23:38 |
| _boo_ | 3.5b is fast, oiaohm | May 22 23:38 |
| ziggyfish | oiaohm, I though firefox 3.5 was meant to do that was well | May 22 23:39 |
| _boo_ | ff | May 22 23:39 |
| _boo_ | not as fast as safari, but safari hangs system when it traverses my drive for no reason | May 22 23:39 |
| tacone | i believe chromium has tweaks on the http settings | May 22 23:39 |
| _boo_ | while sending something irrelevant | May 22 23:40 |
| tacone | stuff that has been around for ages to be used on firefox as well | May 22 23:40 |
| chips_ | chrome is easy to install just unzip it, and drag the file named chrome to the desktop and link it there. Its still an alpha. http://www.google.com/chrome/index.html?hl=en&brand=CHMA&utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-na-us-bk&utm_medium=ha | May 22 23:40 |
| DaemonFC | you ever notice that every download for Mac is twice the size of the Windows version? | May 22 23:40 |
| DaemonFC | yummy "Universal" binary goodness | May 22 23:40 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 22 23:40 |
| tacone | sigh | May 22 23:40 |
| chips_ | but no make, make config, install | May 22 23:41 |
| tacone | i'm on mac now | May 22 23:41 |
| oiaohm | Proper multi process by current time line will be in firefox 4.0 or the like. | May 22 23:41 |
| tacone | i don't like it. | May 22 23:41 |
| _boo_ | DaemonFC, it's because it's twice better for shitty configs of macs | May 22 23:41 |
| DaemonFC | # Windows, English (13 MB) | May 22 23:41 |
| DaemonFC | # Linux GTK2, English (14 MB) | May 22 23:41 |
| DaemonFC | # Mac OS X, English (23 MB) | May 22 23:41 |
| oiaohm | ziggyfish: 3.5 improves the java engine and software leak containment. But nothing compares to having a process where a run away javascript can just be killed. | May 22 23:41 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 22 23:41 |
| DaemonFC | for SeaMonkey 1.1.16 | May 22 23:42 |
| _boo_ | i can't even understand how that weak configs of macs are sold at all for that price | May 22 23:42 |
| tacone | downloading the mac version | May 22 23:42 |
| DaemonFC | exactly | May 22 23:42 |
| DaemonFC | tacone: Get the 2.0 build of SeaMonkey | May 22 23:42 |
| DaemonFC | if you want to try Seamonkey out | May 22 23:42 |
| DaemonFC | test build that is | May 22 23:43 |
| DaemonFC | much better | May 22 23:43 |
| ziggyfish | oiaohm, I do know, in firefox 3.0, that after some time the browser will allow you to kill the current javascript operation. | May 22 23:43 |
| DaemonFC | Seamonkey's UI is unchanged prety much since I started using Mozilla Suite in 1999 | May 22 23:43 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 22 23:43 |
| ziggyfish | I think it's something like 3 mins | May 22 23:43 |
| tacone | i don't understandt the seamonkey concept | May 22 23:43 |
| DaemonFC | but it has newest Gecko | May 22 23:43 |
| tacone | they claim seamonkey is there because firefox code sucks | May 22 23:43 |
| DaemonFC | and the addon manager :D | May 22 23:43 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox does suck | May 22 23:44 |
| DaemonFC | they jettisoned the suite and managed to just end up gutting features that real people use | May 22 23:44 |
| ziggyfish | I've never liked seamonkey | May 22 23:44 |
| DaemonFC | and it ended up working slower | May 22 23:44 |
| oiaohm | ziggyfish: there is a difference between how firefox 3.0 does it and having it has a process. | May 22 23:44 |
| tacone | i'd just have asked seamonkey devs to bloody beat ff devs | May 22 23:44 |
| DaemonFC | I use quite a few extensions in Seamonkey though | May 22 23:45 |
| oiaohm | OS core can take out the trouble maker and leave firefox standing as a process. | May 22 23:45 |
| DaemonFC | Adblock Plus, BetterPrivacy, Newsfox, Noscript, Tab Clicking Options, User Agent Switcher | May 22 23:45 |
| DaemonFC | between Adblock, Noscript, and BetterPrivacy, you can get rid of most of the annoying crap out there | May 22 23:46 |
| DaemonFC | without crippling too much | May 22 23:46 |
| schestowitz | British Rail Operator Tweets Delays < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/05/22/british-rail-operator-tweets-delays > | May 22 23:47 |
| DaemonFC | according to my search engine hits, I'm getting a lot of people looking up information about IE 8 | May 22 23:47 |
| ziggyfish | oiaohm, there are problems with that though, like process startup speed and communication | May 22 23:47 |
| chips_ | I use flashblock as most flash is advertisements | May 22 23:47 |
| schestowitz | Seamonkey sounds promising then | May 22 23:47 |
| schestowitz | But Firefox has too many valuable extension | May 22 23:47 |
| schestowitz | *s | May 22 23:48 |
| DaemonFC | NoScript blocks Flash, you click on it to make it play | May 22 23:48 |
| oiaohm | On linux process startup costs the same as starting a thread. | May 22 23:48 |
| schestowitz | and other data that's tied to it | May 22 23:48 |
| schestowitz | Also Gears | May 22 23:48 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: It can use most Firefox extensions | May 22 23:48 |
| DaemonFC | not themes | May 22 23:48 |
| DaemonFC | but almost everything else | May 22 23:48 |
| oiaohm | intercommunication on Linux can be done the same as if it was a thread. | May 22 23:48 |
| chips_ | I don't need no script for linux, and don't use windows really on the interent | May 22 23:48 |
| oiaohm | On windows there is a problem ziggyfish. | May 22 23:48 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: run it on Linux then | May 22 23:48 |
| tacone | gears sucks | May 22 23:49 |
| DaemonFC | scripts can do annoying things, drop cookies, and allow malware vendors to exploit security flaws in the browser | May 22 23:49 |
| schestowitz | tacone: hardly used it | May 22 23:49 |
| tacone | i haven't seen a worth use of gears since now | May 22 23:49 |
| schestowitz | I don't fall into clouds | May 22 23:49 |
| schestowitz | 'Clouds' | May 22 23:49 |
| schestowitz | Meaning SaaS | May 22 23:49 |
| ziggyfish | oiaohm, did not know that, always though Linux had the same problem as windows when it came to process startup | May 22 23:49 |
| schestowitz | Meaning binaries on remote server | May 22 23:49 |
| tacone | even gmail/greader offline feature works shit | May 22 23:49 |
| schestowitz | I put my programs on schestowitz.com | May 22 23:49 |
| tacone | well, the gmail one is getting better. i could use that on the mac | May 22 23:49 |
| schestowitz | What about Zimbra? | May 22 23:50 |
| DaemonFC | I'm ambivalent about cloud-ish stuff | May 22 23:50 |
| tacone | but the (probably outdated) offline gmail for linux wouldn't let me login | May 22 23:50 |
| ziggyfish | schestowitz, I use to use Zimbra a lot | May 22 23:50 |
| DaemonFC | I'd never lock up anything important in "the cloud" | May 22 23:50 |
| schestowitz | We should stop calling it clouds really | May 22 23:50 |
| schestowitz | It's marketing hype | May 22 23:50 |
| oiaohm | ziggyfish: Linux lack of problems with processes is why gcc runs so much faster on Linux than windows. | May 22 23:50 |
| schestowitz | How to daemonise for the danger by naming | May 22 23:50 |
| DaemonFC | Web 2.0 | May 22 23:50 |
| DaemonFC | is that better? | May 22 23:50 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 22 23:50 |
| schestowitz | Let's twist thw world cloud | May 22 23:50 |
| schestowitz | To insinuate something | May 22 23:50 |
| schestowitz | Like "Vista 7" | May 22 23:50 |
| schestowitz | "Clout computing" | May 22 23:50 |
| DaemonFC | the fog? | May 22 23:50 |
| DaemonFC | perhaps? | May 22 23:50 |
| DaemonFC | fog computing | May 22 23:51 |
| schestowitz | Foggy computing | May 22 23:51 |
| DaemonFC | for when you have no idea where your data really is | May 22 23:51 |
| tacone | jail computing ? | May 22 23:51 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 22 23:51 |
| schestowitz | Fog is good | May 22 23:51 |
| ziggyfish | schestowitz, Zimbra is not what I was thinking it was | May 22 23:51 |
| schestowitz | Like cloud | May 22 23:51 |
| schestowitz | But bad connotation | May 22 23:51 |
| tacone | jail either | May 22 23:51 |
| DaemonFC | I get credit for that :P | May 22 23:51 |
| schestowitz | Cloud and fog are steam | May 22 23:51 |
| DaemonFC | hehehe | May 22 23:51 |
| tacone | jail is more descriptive | May 22 23:51 |
| schestowitz | Cloud makes rain (good for crops) | May 22 23:51 |
| tacone | air hour computing | May 22 23:51 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, but Fog plays on the Cloud term | May 22 23:51 |
| schestowitz | fog = low clouds -- bad for planes, cars navigation etc | May 22 23:52 |
| schestowitz | I like "Fog" | May 22 23:52 |
| schestowitz | I will use that | May 22 23:52 |
| tacone | we should ask for cvs export of all the data in the clouds | May 22 23:52 |
| schestowitz | Some try it | May 22 23:52 |
| schestowitz | MS and Amazon won't join | May 22 23:52 |
| schestowitz | There's LOAF in identi.ca | May 22 23:53 |
| DaemonFC | "Cause you never know where your data is in the fog" | May 22 23:53 |
| tacone | snow computing: let our data fall back to us | May 22 23:53 |
| schestowitz | But it's limited | May 22 23:53 |
| ziggyfish | not many people I talk to like cloud computing | May 22 23:53 |
| schestowitz | I want to d/l my own data | May 22 23:53 |
| schestowitz | Quit importa/export | May 22 23:53 |
| schestowitz | Digg should have that too | May 22 23:53 |
| _boo_ | ziggyfish, 'cause you can't trust clouds | May 22 23:53 |
| schestowitz | And propeller | May 22 23:53 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft loves the idea of turning office into a web app | May 22 23:53 |
| DaemonFC | cause then they can just subscribe you to it | May 22 23:53 |
| schestowitz | I submitted almost 30,000 (!!) pages ther | May 22 23:53 |
| tacone | DaemonFC: too bad they suck at web apps | May 22 23:53 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 22 23:53 |
| DaemonFC | they never have to worry about anyone skipping a version | May 22 23:53 |
| schestowitz | New biz model | May 22 23:53 |
| schestowitz | They wanted subs for desktop apps | May 22 23:54 |
| schestowitz | Not simple to implement | May 22 23:54 |
| DaemonFC | course not | May 22 23:54 |
| schestowitz | They biuild online Office while mocking Google | May 22 23:54 |
| schestowitz | Because Google Apps is well ahead | May 22 23:54 |
| oiaohm | http://widefox.pbworks.com/Process ziggyfish look at the cost difference in cycles to start a process on Linux compared to Vista. | May 22 23:54 |
| schestowitz | Until they are ready they'll mock Fog computing | May 22 23:54 |
| tacone | if they go online, they battle on the same ground | May 22 23:54 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Subscription for desktop apps sounds like you're being fucked | May 22 23:54 |
| tacone | not sure about the winner | May 22 23:54 |
| DaemonFC | subscription for office can be twisted into "a service" | May 22 23:54 |
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| tacone | google is everything gratis. ms is: you pay, and we let you use 3 apps at the same time | May 22 23:55 |
| DaemonFC | Google isn't free | May 22 23:55 |
| DaemonFC | nothing is free | May 22 23:55 |
| tacone | better viewed with ie8 | May 22 23:55 |
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| DaemonFC | eventually they'll toss the "click pennies" explanation | May 22 23:55 |
| schestowitz | http://identi.ca/schestowitz/foaf | May 22 23:55 |
| DaemonFC | and demand license fees | May 22 23:55 |
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| schestowitz | That's a good start | May 22 23:55 |
| chips_ | Is M$ going broke, or are they borrowing money (cheap to borrow now) because they want to 1. buy back Bill's and Steve's shares, or 2. a Yahoo buyout is soon? | May 22 23:56 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: What is it? | May 22 23:56 |
| DaemonFC | This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below. | May 22 23:56 |
| tacone | i think i need an identi.ca account. | May 22 23:56 |
| tacone | ok, offline time. later | May 22 23:56 |
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| chips_ | or 3. to pay off Eu fines that are coming | May 22 23:57 |
| oiaohm | chips_: more appears as going broke cutting back on giving out cheap software to schools and the like is a sign of that. | May 22 23:57 |
| ziggyfish | oiaohm, 719K (Linux) - 5,376K (Windows), that's a big difference | May 22 23:57 |
| schestowitz | chips_: you tell me | May 22 23:57 |
| DaemonFC | http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124302633236948169.html | May 22 23:57 |
| DaemonFC | The Obama administration's efforts to craft what it calls a "preventive detention" plan for suspected terrorists will face constitutional challenges similar to those raised against the Bush administration's policies. | May 22 23:58 |
| chips_ | Roy, I am not sure | May 22 23:58 |
| oiaohm | ziggyfish: bsd some versions are slightly faster than Linux at starting a process. | May 22 23:58 |
| oiaohm | So that is not even comparing to the fastest out there | May 22 23:58 |
| schestowitz | chips_: keep an eye | May 22 23:58 |
| schestowitz | I wrote a lot about it | May 22 23:58 |
| schestowitz | Since 2006 | May 22 23:59 |
| chips_ | first thing I cannot trust M$ to tell the truth, even on little things, they seem to delight in lying. | May 22 23:59 |
| schestowitz | chips_: http://www.google.com/search?q=site:boycottnovell.com+debt&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8&hl=en | May 22 23:59 |
| chips_ | yes, I have seen those | May 22 23:59 |
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| schestowitz | That can occupy you for hours of reading | May 22 23:59 |
| schestowitz | I have many, many links | May 22 23:59 |
| chips_ | already has | May 22 23:59 |
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