schestowitz | So this isn't me sitting in front of blank pages and writing "MWAhaha! MS is theh doomed!!1" | May 23 00:00 |
---|---|---|
DaemonFC | The ACLU is having to sue the Obama administration as much as they sued Bush | May 23 00:00 |
DaemonFC | nothing has changed | May 23 00:00 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 23 00:00 |
schestowitz | Nope | May 23 00:00 |
schestowitz | Change of leader | May 23 00:00 |
schestowitz | de facto | May 23 00:00 |
DaemonFC | the only difference is which team jacket they have on | May 23 00:00 |
chips_ | M$ is still run by Bill | May 23 00:00 |
DaemonFC | and a few fringe issues | May 23 00:01 |
chips_ | Steve is just his errand boy | May 23 00:01 |
DaemonFC | http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,521307,00.html | May 23 00:01 |
DaemonFC | Jury Convicts Mother Who Prayed for Daughter Instead of Treating Her Fatal Diabetes | May 23 00:01 |
ziggyfish | brb, in 30 mins | May 23 00:01 |
DaemonFC | well good | May 23 00:01 |
schestowitz | Different puppet, same strings, same Rockefeller et al behind the tiny, miniature stage | May 23 00:01 |
DaemonFC | about time | May 23 00:01 |
chips_ | Robber Barons | May 23 00:01 |
schestowitz | chips_: yes, Bill is spiritually in charge | May 23 00:01 |
schestowitz | He's meeting people re: MS | May 23 00:02 |
schestowitz | While peddling bribes using the 'charity' vehicle | May 23 00:02 |
schestowitz | Rockefeller did EXACTLY the same thing and were busted | May 23 00:02 |
schestowitz | But the press does not wish to learn (and maybe the editors shoot it down) | May 23 00:02 |
chips_ | he is also a part time employee, the chairman of the board, and the largest voting shareholder, who appointed his friend as succeser | May 23 00:02 |
schestowitz | Some journalis were bold enough to publish analysis of the Gates Foundary redently | May 23 00:02 |
schestowitz | Critiques from professors | May 23 00:03 |
DaemonFC | there's a reason the news companies are tanking | May 23 00:03 |
*mib_exe7ns (i=bd2e1bb4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-22bb19d1625158ec) has joined #boycottnovell | May 23 00:03 | |
DaemonFC | people know they're being lied to | May 23 00:03 |
schestowitz | Gates is small poptato in this game | May 23 00:03 |
schestowitz | He is not yet where he wants to be | May 23 00:03 |
schestowitz | There are more powerful dynasties | May 23 00:03 |
chips_ | the connection with MSNBC and the other media outlets with M$ and Gates is not something the mainstream media covers | May 23 00:03 |
schestowitz | No | May 23 00:04 |
schestowitz | They can't | May 23 00:04 |
*mib_exe7ns is now known as seller_liar | May 23 00:04 | |
schestowitz | They don't fight one another | May 23 00:04 |
oiaohm | IBM Orcale and Cisco systems are more powerful than MS. | May 23 00:04 |
seller_liar | I was thinking.... | May 23 00:04 |
schestowitz | It just leaves them all burned | May 23 00:04 |
schestowitz | Like wreseling with pigs | May 23 00:04 |
schestowitz | Everyone just gets muddy | May 23 00:04 |
seller_liar | Miguel says " I love .net" | May 23 00:04 |
seller_liar | but | May 23 00:04 |
oiaohm | MS without hardware companies is nothing. | May 23 00:04 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: their business is sustainable | May 23 00:04 |
seller_liar | He does not say a word about dotgnu project | May 23 00:04 |
schestowitz | IBM's staffis like FOUR times bigger than MS | May 23 00:05 |
schestowitz | Samsung? Almost TEN times bigger than MS | May 23 00:05 |
seller_liar | Novell de Icaza only speaks about mono and .net | May 23 00:05 |
schestowitz | To put thing in perspective | May 23 00:05 |
chips_ | Miguel is a tool of Novell, to get M$ money for their deal | May 23 00:05 |
schestowitz | MS is fragile | May 23 00:05 |
seller_liar | but does not speak about dotgnu | May 23 00:05 |
schestowitz | Windows Vista 7 will disappoint and Microsoft will go FRANTIC | May 23 00:05 |
schestowitz | seller_liar: in his blog --yeah | May 23 00:05 |
schestowitz | That's the next stage' | May 23 00:05 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: They're already pimping Windows 7 on QVC | May 23 00:05 |
chips_ | yes, MS is a house of cards, when their Windows OS cannot be installed on OEM machines, their world will end | May 23 00:06 |
DaemonFC | my mom was watching it the other day | May 23 00:06 |
schestowitz | First branching out of KDE | May 23 00:06 |
schestowitz | Then Mono | May 23 00:06 |
schestowitz | Then WPF and .NET | May 23 00:06 |
schestowitz | .NET on the Net that is | May 23 00:06 |
seller_liar | Miguel is a liar | May 23 00:06 |
schestowitz | aka Silver Lie | May 23 00:06 |
seller_liar | He does not like dotgnu project | May 23 00:06 |
oiaohm | History says JIT engines will be problems. | May 23 00:06 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: won't help | May 23 00:07 |
oiaohm | Java has done massive work on JIT and it still does not cover its problems. | May 23 00:07 |
schestowitz | Windows 7: 83% Of Businesses Won't Deploy Next Year http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/operatingsystems/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=216500331&subSection=News | May 23 00:07 |
seller_liar | oiaohm: I don t know | May 23 00:07 |
seller_liar | oiaohm: People don t worry about such things | May 23 00:07 |
oiaohm | Project looking glass was a failure for desktop usage because of it. | May 23 00:08 |
DaemonFC | My mom was watching that MultiTouch demo | May 23 00:08 |
DaemonFC | does the Mac have anything like that? | May 23 00:08 |
oiaohm | .net guys have learnt nothing seller_liar | May 23 00:08 |
chips_ | its more than google for advertising that M$ wants to kill. The other reason to buy Yahoo is to start killing adobe with silverlight | May 23 00:08 |
schestowitz | MS always shows good hardware | May 23 00:08 |
schestowitz | That's the new stunt | May 23 00:08 |
seller_liar | oiaohm: Net guys loves to attack java[ | May 23 00:09 |
DaemonFC | yeah, it was a Dell integrated like an iMac | May 23 00:09 |
chips_ | Silverlight is the other half of advertising revenue | May 23 00:09 |
DaemonFC | with a touch screen | May 23 00:09 |
schestowitz | Big screens, touch technology, apps built onto for demos... | May 23 00:09 |
DaemonFC | looked pretty cool | May 23 00:09 |
DaemonFC | but I'l not laying down $1800 for that | May 23 00:09 |
schestowitz | People should ask themselves what h/w they have. | May 23 00:09 |
schestowitz | It's like with cars | May 23 00:09 |
oiaohm | seller_liar: in the process forget they are standing in a glass house with the same problems. | May 23 00:09 |
schestowitz | Being shown off with some girl in a bikini riding it | May 23 00:09 |
oiaohm | .net guys complain about java heavy memory usage. | May 23 00:09 |
oiaohm | .net has that problem. | May 23 00:09 |
DaemonFC | yeah, they pimped Vista out like this before it launched | May 23 00:10 |
schestowitz | Only you get a car with dew stains and no girl in it | May 23 00:10 |
DaemonFC | and it's nowhere near what they demo'd | May 23 00:10 |
seller_liar | oiaohm: Not only this, but microsoft hates java too | May 23 00:10 |
oiaohm | MS tried to take control of Java | May 23 00:10 |
seller_liar | oiaohm: Net developers=microsoft slaves | May 23 00:10 |
oiaohm | SUN kicked there ass. | May 23 00:10 |
oiaohm | So MS hates them. | May 23 00:10 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: That "Mojave" thing, was bullshit because they got to load it on super fast hardware | May 23 00:10 |
DaemonFC | that could easily handle Vista | May 23 00:10 |
DaemonFC | with all the features in it | May 23 00:11 |
oiaohm | So MS made a incompadle clone. | May 23 00:11 |
oiaohm | Nothing new there. | May 23 00:11 |
DaemonFC | and already had everything installed and set up | May 23 00:11 |
seller_liar | oiaohm: M$ will never to be a "new thing" | May 23 00:11 |
oiaohm | ADS is a incompadle clone of what samba was doing in 1998. | May 23 00:11 |
seller_liar | oiaohm: Microsoft has alwayas the old same tatics from 80s | May 23 00:11 |
oiaohm | Nothing new same old same old. | May 23 00:12 |
oiaohm | MS people don't want to get that. | May 23 00:12 |
schestowitz | Yes, they have cookbooks | May 23 00:12 |
chips_ | M$ playbook worked well, why change it? | May 23 00:12 |
schestowitz | For dirty maneuvers | May 23 00:12 |
schestowitz | Comes vs MS | May 23 00:12 |
schestowitz | Yet to be exposed some more | May 23 00:12 |
schestowitz | We'll make some big FPers | May 23 00:12 |
DaemonFC | If MS puts Vista on a system with 16 gigs of RAM and a quad core CPU, who could say it's slow? | May 23 00:12 |
oiaohm | Has it really chips_ | May 23 00:12 |
schestowitz | I'm too caught up with the news for now | May 23 00:12 |
schestowitz | Summers get quieter | May 23 00:13 |
DaemonFC | If they turn off UAC for the demo, it's not annoying | May 23 00:13 |
DaemonFC | etc. | May 23 00:13 |
DaemonFC | if they cherry pick hardware and software | May 23 00:13 |
DaemonFC | what incompatibilities? | May 23 00:13 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 23 00:13 |
oiaohm | Most of the 1980~ competition was mostly took the path they could charge more than MS because there software/hardware was better quality. | May 23 00:13 |
oiaohm | Bad mistake | May 23 00:13 |
seller_liar | M$ have destroyed OEMs and hardware manufaturers | May 23 00:14 |
schestowitz | "Jury Convicts Mother Who Prayed for Daughter Instead of Treating Her Fatal Diabetes" Oh l0rd | May 23 00:14 |
oiaohm | Lot of this kind of attude when threw the 1990~ | May 23 00:14 |
DaemonFC | mmhm | May 23 00:14 |
oiaohm | MS did illegal deals with OEMs | May 23 00:14 |
chips_ | oiaohm: yes. If MS goes down its not because of its "playbook." Even with EU fines big, its not enough to take them down. They should go down, because of what you have written about, ARM cpu. | May 23 00:14 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: At least not everyone in this country is fucking stupid | May 23 00:14 |
DaemonFC | that proves it I guess | May 23 00:14 |
oiaohm | MS is going to go down because there play book is useless. | May 23 00:15 |
DaemonFC | 50 years ago you'd have the jury backing the psycho mom | May 23 00:15 |
DaemonFC | if it ever went to court | May 23 00:15 |
oiaohm | How do you under cut free without killing yourself. | May 23 00:15 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: Make your product better | May 23 00:15 |
DaemonFC | not only better, better enough to pay for | May 23 00:15 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o | May 23 00:15 |
oiaohm | Better product does not make sure you win DaemonFC | May 23 00:15 |
schestowitz | Put your hand on the table when you tell the truth :-) | May 23 00:15 |
oiaohm | MS beat other products by being cheaper. | May 23 00:15 |
schestowitz | *or bible | May 23 00:15 |
oiaohm | Basically softwrare is cheaper. | May 23 00:16 |
oiaohm | Costs bugger all to mass produce. | May 23 00:16 |
oiaohm | MS made there profts from software so are a sitting duck. | May 23 00:16 |
oiaohm | Profits from support is something someone else cannot replicate cheaply. | May 23 00:16 |
DaemonFC | If I was Microsoft, I'd be making Windows so "good" that people wanted to keep paying for it | May 23 00:17 |
oiaohm | MS screwed the pooch in there playbook. | May 23 00:17 |
DaemonFC | so good that it would earn the profit it made over free Linux | May 23 00:17 |
DaemonFC | they could | May 23 00:17 |
DaemonFC | they could do all of that | May 23 00:17 |
DaemonFC | they don't | May 23 00:17 |
oiaohm | Just no decent competiton gave MS market. | May 23 00:17 |
chips_ | Many years ago somewhere on the web, I read a post from IBM, about moving from OS/2 to windows or Linux. Basically it said that IBM could not compete with M$ Windows because of cost. And that only an OS like Linux would be able to because of free volunteer work making up much of the system. | May 23 00:17 |
oiaohm | Last few years tide has started turning. | May 23 00:18 |
DaemonFC | OK, suppose they took the DRM bullshit out, and they made sure it had drivers for everything, and they properly secured it, and so on so forth | May 23 00:18 |
DaemonFC | it just works always | May 23 00:18 |
oiaohm | Wrong chips_ | May 23 00:18 |
DaemonFC | and when it doesn't, you get real support | May 23 00:18 |
DaemonFC | I mean that would be worth money | May 23 00:18 |
oiaohm | Most Linux development is done by paid developers. | May 23 00:18 |
oiaohm | Linux costs are distributed. | May 23 00:18 |
chips_ | true, but not so much back then | May 23 00:18 |
DaemonFC | they give Linux out for free cause they tried selling it | May 23 00:18 |
DaemonFC | and it didn't work | May 23 00:18 |
oiaohm | Its turned out a lot was back then chips_ | May 23 00:19 |
chips_ | or should I have said GNU, not linux | May 23 00:19 |
oiaohm | No one was proper tracking where the coders were coming from. | May 23 00:19 |
chips_ | kernel always have been | May 23 00:19 |
DaemonFC | remember in 1998-2003 when every Best Buy and Staples had several Linux box sets? | May 23 00:19 |
DaemonFC | sitting right next to Windows? | May 23 00:19 |
chips_ | Red Hat | May 23 00:19 |
DaemonFC | Red Hat, Suse, Mandrake | May 23 00:19 |
DaemonFC | on and on | May 23 00:19 |
chips_ | yep | May 23 00:19 |
DaemonFC | and Windows still sold | May 23 00:19 |
oiaohm | Even if you go back into BSD pre linux. | May 23 00:20 |
DaemonFC | and that shelf space was making them nothing | May 23 00:20 |
oiaohm | There were a lot of commerically paid developers in the game back then. | May 23 00:20 |
DaemonFC | so Linux had 56 years sitting right next to Windows | May 23 00:20 |
oiaohm | Again no one was bothering tracking. | May 23 00:20 |
DaemonFC | and never took off | May 23 00:20 |
DaemonFC | err | May 23 00:20 |
DaemonFC | 5-6 | May 23 00:20 |
oiaohm | Linux msot likely will never been on the shelf. | May 23 00:20 |
oiaohm | More likely to come preinstalled. | May 23 00:21 |
DaemonFC | Linux has been on the shelf | May 23 00:21 |
DaemonFC | prominently for years | May 23 00:21 |
DaemonFC | and never sold | May 23 00:21 |
oiaohm | On the shelf turned out to be a expensive mistake. | May 23 00:21 |
DaemonFC | thats why Red Hat's CEO said basically "We tried it, there is no Linux desktop market" | May 23 00:21 |
DaemonFC | the other day | May 23 00:21 |
oiaohm | Redhat words and actions not match. | May 23 00:21 |
chips_ | it doesn't need to be on the "shelf." It needs to be on the ARM and Mips laptops | May 23 00:21 |
oiaohm | Redhat runs a lot of projects targeted at desktop support. | May 23 00:22 |
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-130-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | May 23 00:22 | |
oiaohm | Redhat also does not expect to make any profit from the desktop market. | May 23 00:22 |
DaemonFC | they used to | May 23 00:23 |
oiaohm | Nop. | May 23 00:23 |
oiaohm | The money is server side. | May 23 00:23 |
DaemonFC | well, on the sheld was the right place to be | May 23 00:23 |
DaemonFC | at that time and place | May 23 00:23 |
_Hicham_ | RedHat is an expert | May 23 00:23 |
DaemonFC | if it didn't take off that way when nobody had the bandwidth to download it | May 23 00:23 |
chips_ | the only desktop that Red Hat is really worried about is the corporate one | May 23 00:23 |
DaemonFC | it's not going to | May 23 00:23 |
DaemonFC | at least not in retail channels | May 23 00:23 |
_Hicham_ | what about Fedora? | May 23 00:23 |
DaemonFC | and that's how you expose Mac and Windows users to software | May 23 00:23 |
_Hicham_ | it is a general purpose distro | May 23 00:24 |
_Hicham_ | it brings the latest techs to the desktop also | May 23 00:24 |
oiaohm | Fedora contains lots of Redhat desktop experments | May 23 00:24 |
_Hicham_ | which is great | May 23 00:24 |
_Hicham_ | who doesn't like innovation? | May 23 00:24 |
DaemonFC | yeah, Fedora is basically siphoning from other distros | May 23 00:24 |
oiaohm | No | May 23 00:24 |
DaemonFC | it's gonna all be about Ubuntu and Fedora, eventually | May 23 00:24 |
DaemonFC | I think | May 23 00:24 |
DaemonFC | with others fighting for crumbs | May 23 00:25 |
_Hicham_ | Ubuntu doesn't do anything | May 23 00:25 |
_Hicham_ | they just package | May 23 00:25 |
oiaohm | Fedora really is not siphoning. | May 23 00:25 |
DaemonFC | I mean for desktop users | May 23 00:25 |
DaemonFC | not corporate | May 23 00:25 |
oiaohm | Redhat knows where the money is. | May 23 00:25 |
DaemonFC | it's gravitating to Ubuntu and Fedora | May 23 00:25 |
oiaohm | Corporate desktops. | May 23 00:25 |
oiaohm | With servers support them. | May 23 00:25 |
_Hicham_ | Ubuntu doesn't give a shit about the community | May 23 00:25 |
oiaohm | People will buy support contracts on that. | May 23 00:25 |
oiaohm | So redhat will make money. | May 23 00:26 |
*DaemonFC is now known as IAmNotNice | May 23 00:26 | |
_Hicham_ | Ubuntu isn't reliable on a server | May 23 00:26 |
oiaohm | Support is where the proft is. | May 23 00:26 |
_Hicham_ | you can't use Ubuntu on server | May 23 00:26 |
schestowitz | IAmNotNice: please no nymshifting | May 23 00:26 |
_Hicham_ | it features lot of new things for a server | May 23 00:26 |
schestowitz | Or -- use real name | May 23 00:26 |
*IAmNotNice is now known as DaemonFC | May 23 00:26 | |
schestowitz | Especially if you curse and make death wishes/threats | May 23 00:26 |
_Hicham_ | RHEL is the most reliable on servers | May 23 00:26 |
DaemonFC | hmmmm | May 23 00:27 |
_Hicham_ | start some troll | May 23 00:27 |
_Hicham_ | no problem | May 23 00:27 |
oiaohm | RHEL has a game plan. | May 23 00:27 |
oiaohm | Not a game plan MS is going to like. | May 23 00:28 |
_Hicham_ | what is its game plan oiaohm? | May 23 00:28 |
*DaemonFC ties RMS up and pays Miguel De Icaza to give him a lap dance | May 23 00:28 | |
DaemonFC | there you go | May 23 00:28 |
_Hicham_ | hahahahahahaha | May 23 00:28 |
_Hicham_ | bad try | May 23 00:28 |
oiaohm | Virtualisation + client management So allowing them to take control of the corperate business desktop. | May 23 00:28 |
chips_ | Net Apps is in the southern part of the LA metro area | May 23 00:29 |
*ReverseGTR (n=ReverseG@ool-45732edc.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #boycottnovell | May 23 00:29 | |
ReverseGTR | hi | May 23 00:29 |
_Hicham_ | there is no money in the Desktop | May 23 00:29 |
chips_ | wonder if they gives tours? | May 23 00:29 |
ReverseGTR | sorry it took a bit longer then I thought to get back | May 23 00:29 |
_Hicham_ | Desktop is not profitable | May 23 00:29 |
oiaohm | Control of corperate desktop gives you control of there supporting servers. | May 23 00:29 |
_Hicham_ | finally i resolved my opengl programming dilemma | May 23 00:29 |
_Hicham_ | thought i can't understand it | May 23 00:29 |
oiaohm | Redhat is after servers. | May 23 00:29 |
DaemonFC | well, Linux is in a catch-22 | May 23 00:29 |
ReverseGTR | _Hicham_, : Desktop market is not profitable? | May 23 00:30 |
DaemonFC | with few users, there's little incentive for decent software | May 23 00:30 |
DaemonFC | and without decent software, there's no incentive for lots of users | May 23 00:30 |
_Hicham_ | yes, Windows Desktop is pirated for 100% | May 23 00:30 |
ReverseGTR | _Hicham_, if cloud computing has their way the desktop will be the only appealing thing left of a PC's OS. | May 23 00:30 |
DaemonFC | pretty much | May 23 00:30 |
_Hicham_ | so it isn't profitable | May 23 00:30 |
ReverseGTR | _Hicham_, if by then PC are any longer PC are just set top boxes | May 23 00:30 |
DaemonFC | not at all | May 23 00:31 |
DaemonFC | it's very profitable | May 23 00:31 |
_Hicham_ | Desktop just serves for locking the market | May 23 00:31 |
oiaohm | Redhat plain includes cloud computering ReverseGTR | May 23 00:31 |
DaemonFC | basically yes | May 23 00:31 |
ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, and you know what, I am utterly disgusted with that vision of personal computing | May 23 00:31 |
oiaohm | For own secuirty you really need to run own cloud. | May 23 00:31 |
chips_ | Hicham, says Desktop is not profitable. Home user you are right of course. Even IBM said it could not compete with MS on windows and that Linux would be a neutral platform. The point being if Linux replaces Windows, they software will be written for it for sale. | May 23 00:31 |
ReverseGTR | not only does it take the personal out of computing, but also the empowerment of a indivisual to utilize a computer to the fullest potential and learn from it | May 23 00:31 |
_Hicham_ | software is sold for corporate users | May 23 00:32 |
_Hicham_ | not for individuals | May 23 00:32 |
_Hicham_ | individuals will download pirated versions | May 23 00:32 |
chips_ | not true, games are software too | May 23 00:32 |
ReverseGTR | _Hicham_, what about Game developers, MMOs and Media processing software | May 23 00:32 |
schestowitz | http://twitter.com/glynmoody/statuses/1872177623 "Conficker still infecting 50,000 PCs per day - http://bit.ly/JpG1a not true: it's infecting 50K *Windows* machines per day" | May 23 00:32 |
chips_ | not everyone pirates | May 23 00:32 |
_Hicham_ | games are a special case | May 23 00:32 |
oiaohm | Game developers are going to have more problems soon too. | May 23 00:32 |
DaemonFC | the DRM in video games is the longest suicide note ever | May 23 00:33 |
schestowitz | <chips_> Net Apps is in the southern part of the LA metro area | May 23 00:33 |
schestowitz | What does this mean? | May 23 00:33 |
DaemonFC | why buy the real thing when the pirate copy doesn't slap you around with borderline spyware | May 23 00:33 |
schestowitz | For #s? | May 23 00:33 |
chips_ | will not touch DRM in any way | May 23 00:33 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 23 00:33 |
chips_ | Roy, the tour of course | May 23 00:33 |
ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, eventually developers will wake up to no DRM and adopt a more Valve Steam like method | May 23 00:33 |
ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, I mean publishers | May 23 00:34 |
DaemonFC | LA Metro is only about 16 million people | May 23 00:34 |
DaemonFC | lmao | May 23 00:34 |
oiaohm | Steam is still a DRM ReverseGTR | May 23 00:34 |
chips_ | google maps for net apps | May 23 00:34 |
ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, because it is the publishers that are really at fault for putting DRM in | May 23 00:34 |
oiaohm | Just not as abusive one. | May 23 00:34 |
_Hicham_ | Linux have to lock the market | May 23 00:34 |
DaemonFC | customer abuse, no better example than video game DRM | May 23 00:34 |
ReverseGTR | oiaohm, but at least its set up in such a way to give redundancy for the user | May 23 00:34 |
ReverseGTR | oiaohm, in case if they lose a copy or ect | May 23 00:34 |
DaemonFC | even Vista's activation shit pales | May 23 00:34 |
DaemonFC | in comparison to what EA Games uses | May 23 00:35 |
_Hicham_ | games should be certified by distros | May 23 00:35 |
_Hicham_ | current Linux commercial games have linking problems | May 23 00:35 |
oiaohm | Really Linux needs a steam like system taht does not give a crap about Linux distributions | May 23 00:35 |
DaemonFC | well, there's a cartel on Linux setting up to take all your money so you can play your games? | May 23 00:35 |
DaemonFC | Anyone? | May 23 00:35 |
DaemonFC | Anyone? | May 23 00:35 |
DaemonFC | Cedega! | May 23 00:35 |
_Hicham_ | Cedega isn't a solution | May 23 00:36 |
DaemonFC | partnering with EA and several other studios | May 23 00:36 |
oiaohm | More games work with when than Cedega | May 23 00:36 |
DaemonFC | you can run those games on Linux | May 23 00:36 |
oiaohm | wine | May 23 00:36 |
DaemonFC | but only if you buy Cedega | May 23 00:36 |
_Hicham_ | wine is not a solution | May 23 00:36 |
DaemonFC | and the Windows version of the game | May 23 00:36 |
DaemonFC | nope | May 23 00:36 |
DaemonFC | they don't run in Wine | May 23 00:36 |
DaemonFC | Wine crashes | May 23 00:36 |
oiaohm | So does Cedega with some games. | May 23 00:36 |
DaemonFC | no | May 23 00:36 |
_Hicham_ | porting is the solution | May 23 00:36 |
_Hicham_ | that would be profitable | May 23 00:36 |
DaemonFC | I mean the copy protection crashes Wine | May 23 00:36 |
DaemonFC | intentionally | May 23 00:36 |
oiaohm | Neither Cedega and wine are pefect. | May 23 00:36 |
chips_ | crossover had a free day back awhile ago, 7.02 I got it | May 23 00:37 |
oiaohm | Cedega runs more copy protection games. | May 23 00:37 |
DaemonFC | you can only install them in Cedega | May 23 00:37 |
DaemonFC | Wine can't even run the installer | May 23 00:37 |
oiaohm | Wine runs more complex games. | May 23 00:37 |
DaemonFC | talk about no lube | May 23 00:37 |
oiaohm | So neither gives you coverage. | May 23 00:37 |
oiaohm | Suxs big time. | May 23 00:37 |
DaemonFC | who wants to pay $60 a year to play games you should be able to play anyway? | May 23 00:37 |
DaemonFC | Vista is cheaper! | May 23 00:37 |
DaemonFC | I mean damn | May 23 00:37 |
DaemonFC | you know? | May 23 00:37 |
_Hicham_ | fuck Vista | May 23 00:38 |
oiaohm | Note not all copy protection games fail in wine. | May 23 00:38 |
_Hicham_ | it is not about being cheap | May 23 00:38 |
DaemonFC | oh, but it's cheaper to buy Vista than pay for a Cedega subscription for 3 years | May 23 00:38 |
_Hicham_ | it is about freedom | May 23 00:38 |
oiaohm | Some detect wine and disable copy protection as well. | May 23 00:38 |
DaemonFC | so you're still locked in | May 23 00:38 |
DaemonFC | even though you use Linux | May 23 00:38 |
_Hicham_ | games should be ported to Linux | May 23 00:38 |
DaemonFC | yeah, they aren't, tough shit | May 23 00:38 |
Balrog_ | oiaohm: what about using anti copy protection patches and the like? Of course you still own the game ... runs afoul of DMCA but would that help | May 23 00:38 |
Balrog_ | ? | May 23 00:39 |
DaemonFC | you'll get the same answer from EA | May 23 00:39 |
DaemonFC | I'm sure | May 23 00:39 |
oiaohm | DMCA allows it Balrog_ for use in wine or any other system emulator. | May 23 00:39 |
Balrog_ | _Hicham_ and DaemonFC: main problem is that game developers are heavily invested in DirectX | May 23 00:39 |
DaemonFC | Balrog_: I've done that | May 23 00:39 |
DaemonFC | but the game has to at least install first | May 23 00:39 |
Balrog_ | hmm. :/ | May 23 00:39 |
schestowitz | Neat! : http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=4505537&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1 | May 23 00:39 |
_Hicham_ | Balrog_ : DirectX isn't a problem | May 23 00:39 |
oiaohm | You cannot of course use anti copy protection if wine runs game without needing it. | May 23 00:39 |
DaemonFC | Wine does DirectX to OpenGL | May 23 00:39 |
chips_ | games will be ported to Linux when numbers are up, when we get the correct percentages other than Net Apps | May 23 00:39 |
_Hicham_ | there are mappings between OGL and DX | May 23 00:39 |
Balrog_ | yeah, but when it comes to porting games | May 23 00:40 |
DaemonFC | Wine is worried about running afoul of DMCA-style laws | May 23 00:40 |
DaemonFC | so they won't support the copy protection libraries | May 23 00:40 |
Balrog_ | they're not foolproof and don't work with the latest DirectX | May 23 00:40 |
oiaohm | Not really. | May 23 00:40 |
_Hicham_ | the real problem is MFC | May 23 00:40 |
_Hicham_ | MFC is very evil | May 23 00:40 |
DaemonFC | ? | May 23 00:40 |
chips_ | Roy has done more to get games ported to linux than anyone by exposing Net Apps | May 23 00:40 |
DaemonFC | No, SecuROM is evil | May 23 00:40 |
_Hicham_ | the closest toolkit is WxWidgets | May 23 00:40 |
Balrog_ | <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Foundation_Class_Library> | May 23 00:40 |
DaemonFC | the earlier Oblivion discs installed | May 23 00:40 |
oiaohm | Particular copy protection libraries run in wine DaemonFC | May 23 00:40 |
DaemonFC | then they put SecuROM on and they won't install now | May 23 00:40 |
_Hicham_ | it is relatively easy to port MFC apps to wxWidgets | May 23 00:41 |
Balrog_ | there should be a way around it | May 23 00:41 |
DaemonFC | nope | May 23 00:41 |
DaemonFC | tried the tutorial | May 23 00:41 |
schestowitz | chips_: I wouldn't go that far | May 23 00:41 |
DaemonFC | about 50 steps later, still wouldn't work | May 23 00:41 |
Balrog_ | binary patching the installers? | May 23 00:41 |
schestowitz | Others help expose them too | May 23 00:41 |
Balrog_ | (patch the checks out) | May 23 00:41 |
DaemonFC | uhhhm, yeah, if you want to do that for me | May 23 00:41 |
DaemonFC | I'll run it | May 23 00:41 |
schestowitz | I accumulate things and did a little invetigation | May 23 00:41 |
DaemonFC | lol | May 23 00:41 |
schestowitz | http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/009899.html (M.I.T. Doubles Its 2095 Warming Projection To 10°F — With 866 Ppm And Arctic Warming of 20°F) | May 23 00:41 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz is an expert in Mono programming | May 23 00:41 |
schestowitz | Heh | May 23 00:42 |
schestowitz | Mono programming? | May 23 00:42 |
schestowitz | Like C# rather? | May 23 00:42 |
oiaohm | Try those secure rom games in wine DaemonFC | May 23 00:42 |
DaemonFC | that's what's killing Linux off with a lot of people trapped on Windows just for the games | May 23 00:42 |
DaemonFC | this copy protection crap | May 23 00:42 |
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DaemonFC | it's evil | May 23 00:42 |
_Hicham_ | there is no copy protection | May 23 00:42 |
schestowitz | copy protection? | May 23 00:42 |
schestowitz | Call it what it is | May 23 00:42 |
oiaohm | One of the reason why windows user ask wine to be port to windows is secuROM. | May 23 00:42 |
schestowitz | Digital handcuffs | May 23 00:42 |
DaemonFC | copy restriction | May 23 00:42 |
DaemonFC | that works too | May 23 00:43 |
_Hicham_ | u can't restrict copy | May 23 00:43 |
schestowitz | Digital fog | May 23 00:43 |
_Hicham_ | it is just a myth | May 23 00:43 |
schestowitz | ClouDRM | May 23 00:43 |
DaemonFC | I tried installing this stuff in Wine and that's the _ONLY_ reason it won't work | May 23 00:43 |
schestowitz | Sort and fluffy RM | May 23 00:43 |
DaemonFC | only reason | May 23 00:43 |
schestowitz | *soft | May 23 00:43 |
oiaohm | Wine cannot run lots of copy protection libs because they don't have enough low level emulation yet. | May 23 00:43 |
_Hicham_ | wine is just a transitional solution | May 23 00:43 |
_Hicham_ | not the final one | May 23 00:43 |
DaemonFC | yeah, Wine is great when it works, and that's what kept me happy for several years | May 23 00:44 |
DaemonFC | and now it doesn't really work anymore | May 23 00:44 |
oiaohm | luk project is also working on expanding that. | May 23 00:44 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC must work on games | May 23 00:44 |
DaemonFC | I had a lot of games installed in Wine on Linux that worked great | May 23 00:44 |
schestowitz | http://www.freeformdynamics.com/fullarticle.asp?aid=678 (Linux on the Desktop) | May 23 00:44 |
DaemonFC | almost my whole collection spanning back to 1994 | May 23 00:44 |
_Hicham_ | now that ATI is getting better on Linux, games developers should be more interested | May 23 00:44 |
chips_ | at some point the api's and directX have to be considered as a non standard format, for eu review as well | May 23 00:45 |
DaemonFC | and then this shit comes along | May 23 00:45 |
_Hicham_ | DirectX used to be crap | May 23 00:45 |
_Hicham_ | because it involved ( and still ) some low level interaction | May 23 00:45 |
schestowitz | used to be? | May 23 00:45 |
DaemonFC | so basically any games I have for XP or Vista get installed in Vista, and any games I have for 3.1-Me get Wine on Linux | May 23 00:46 |
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_Hicham_ | which are sometime risky | May 23 00:46 |
DaemonFC | cause Vista is losing compatibility with earlier Windows | May 23 00:46 |
chips_ | the point being that software written for one OS (windows) should be able to run on others. Why does the wheel need to be constantly reinvented? | May 23 00:46 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : DirectX has got a major cleanup with version 9 | May 23 00:46 |
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schestowitz | “Wine is a better Windows than Vista” --David Gerard | May 23 00:46 |
DaemonFC | DirectX 9 is fairly good, as in performance wise | May 23 00:46 |
DaemonFC | even John Carmack said so | May 23 00:46 |
chips_ | I am not talking Jave either, I am talking about the Eu forcing M$ to doc and open its api's | May 23 00:47 |
oiaohm | Depends on the game. | May 23 00:47 |
Balrog_ | but it's non-standard | May 23 00:47 |
DaemonFC | but the cross platform games ID Software puts out | May 23 00:47 |
Balrog_ | opengl is the standard | May 23 00:47 |
oiaohm | Lot of games only work on wine in direct x mode. | May 23 00:47 |
DaemonFC | almost always run better on Linux | May 23 00:47 |
oiaohm | on winXp Os setting. | May 23 00:47 |
oiaohm | Vista added a few game management things. | May 23 00:47 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: If you install TurboTax and MS Office, maybe | May 23 00:47 |
schestowitz | Wine sometimes performs better than Win+DX | May 23 00:48 |
DaemonFC | Wine can usually run that cause CodeWeavers needs to sell their Crossover app | May 23 00:48 |
_Hicham_ | Office 2007 can't be installed on wine | May 23 00:48 |
DaemonFC | Crossover runs it | May 23 00:48 |
oiaohm | Not exactly true _Hicham_ | May 23 00:48 |
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schestowitz | _Hicham_: not true | May 23 00:48 |
oiaohm | It can be installed it don't run nice. | May 23 00:48 |
Balrog_ | oiaohm: then why does Crossover run it right? | May 23 00:48 |
_Hicham_ | I don't know with newer wine version | May 23 00:48 |
_Hicham_ | I don't use wine anymore | May 23 00:49 |
schestowitz | It runs | May 23 00:49 |
schestowitz | They brag about it | May 23 00:49 |
_Hicham_ | I am windows free now | May 23 00:49 |
oiaohm | Push crossover the right way you will find out it don't run right either Balrog_ | May 23 00:49 |
schestowitz | See wine /Bordeaux blog | May 23 00:49 |
_Hicham_ | the last thing that can't seem to come over is Official Flash Player | May 23 00:49 |
_Hicham_ | it is really even | May 23 00:49 |
_Hicham_ | I tried swfdec and gnash with different compilation options | May 23 00:50 |
_Hicham_ | but no luck | May 23 00:50 |
Balrog_ | _Hicham_: you mean the Linux version? | May 23 00:50 |
_Hicham_ | yex | May 23 00:50 |
_Hicham_ | yes | May 23 00:50 |
DaemonFC | Crossover = No regressions on supported apps | May 23 00:50 |
Balrog_ | make sure you're using the 64bit one if you're running 64bit linux | May 23 00:50 |
DaemonFC | it's not just Wine copied over verbatim | May 23 00:50 |
_Hicham_ | it is the only proprietary piece of software that i can't get over | May 23 00:50 |
schestowitz | Apple trikes again: "If you’re wondering why Eucalyptus is not yet available, it’s currently in the state of being ‘rejected’ for distribution on the iPhone App Store. This is due to the fact that it’s possible, after explicitly searching for them, to find, download from the Internet, and then read texts that Apple deems ‘objectionable’." http://www.blog.montgomerie.net/whither-eucalyptus | May 23 00:51 |
DaemonFC | so Wine can break things and fix them ad infinitum | May 23 00:51 |
chips_ | i use wine/crossover to run bejeweled2, Civ3, and dvdfab5. XP in a vm to run one online game only, not often. | May 23 00:51 |
DaemonFC | but usually progresses faster | May 23 00:51 |
DaemonFC | WoW? | May 23 00:51 |
DaemonFC | Ultima? | May 23 00:51 |
_Hicham_ | fuck Windows compatibility | May 23 00:51 |
DaemonFC | I play Ultima Online on a FreeShard | May 23 00:52 |
Balrog_ | hmm ... maybe they're 'cracking down' in anticipation of iphone 3.0 | May 23 00:52 |
chips_ | Hicham, there is not much I want from the windows ecosystem | May 23 00:52 |
Balrog_ | which will have parental restrictions | May 23 00:52 |
DaemonFC | Zune Phone :D | May 23 00:52 |
DaemonFC | lmao | May 23 00:52 |
Balrog_ | "Parental Controls have been announced for iPhone OS 3.0. It would be appropriate to resubmit your application for review once this feature is available. | May 23 00:53 |
Balrog_ | " | May 23 00:53 |
schestowitz | Court curtails Met surveillance < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8061050.stm > | May 23 00:53 |
chips_ | Roy, Net Apps is about 5 hours away | May 23 00:53 |
schestowitz | What do you meam? | May 23 00:54 |
schestowitz | From you? | May 23 00:54 |
oiaohm | http://www.iris2.de/index.php/Main_Page So you don't use iris2 DaemonFC? | May 23 00:54 |
ziggyfish | back | May 23 00:54 |
chips_ | yes | May 23 00:54 |
schestowitz | WHO at a crossroads on a mandate for an R&D Treaty < http://www.keionline.org/blogs/2009/05/21/who-at-a-crossroads-on-a-mandate-for-an-rd-treaty/ . WHO?!?! Wha!?? | May 23 00:55 |
schestowitz | chips_: go look in their garbage cans for receipts ;-) | May 23 00:55 |
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oiaohm | There are more and more native ports of games appearing for Linux. | May 23 00:56 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: This has everything you need? | May 23 00:56 |
DaemonFC | no real client software needed? | May 23 00:56 |
chips_ | trash dumpster there, but they most likely have to sort they trash, papers, plastics, glass etc | May 23 00:56 |
chips_ | tour would be nice too, maybe an interview | May 23 00:57 |
oiaohm | Not that I have found yet DaemonFC | May 23 00:58 |
DaemonFC | hmmmmm | May 23 00:58 |
DaemonFC | I need to look at Valves stats | May 23 00:58 |
DaemonFC | last year 80% of Valve steam users were on XP | May 23 00:58 |
oiaohm | Of course you need the data files out the true client. | May 23 00:59 |
oiaohm | Lot like playing quake on Linux. | May 23 00:59 |
DaemonFC | http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/ | May 23 00:59 |
DaemonFC | heh | May 23 00:59 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : did you play postal2 on Linux? | May 23 01:00 |
DaemonFC | no | May 23 01:00 |
_Hicham_ | ColdWar on Linux? | May 23 01:00 |
_Hicham_ | these are native games | May 23 01:00 |
DaemonFC | 60.96% on XP | May 23 01:00 |
_Hicham_ | Penumbra Black Plague? | May 23 01:00 |
_Hicham_ | you can download the demos | May 23 01:01 |
chips_ | its been fun, later all | May 23 01:01 |
_Hicham_ | I have run postal2 on Debian | May 23 01:01 |
_Hicham_ | it worked like a charm | May 23 01:01 |
DaemonFC | of course Wine lies and says it is XP | May 23 01:01 |
DaemonFC | so that's overestimating a little | May 23 01:01 |
_Hicham_ | no Windows emulation | May 23 01:01 |
_Hicham_ | just Linux | May 23 01:01 |
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_Hicham_ | everything goes to glibc | May 23 01:01 |
_Hicham_ | directly | May 23 01:02 |
DaemonFC | so probably 59% of Windows users | May 23 01:02 |
_Hicham_ | no more mapping | May 23 01:02 |
DaemonFC | still on XP | May 23 01:02 |
_Hicham_ | Windows users are just dumb | May 23 01:02 |
DaemonFC | 0.32% on XP x64 | May 23 01:02 |
schestowitz | Announcing Apps for America 2: The Data.gov Challenge < http://blog.sunlightfoundation.com/2009/05/21/announcing-apps-for-america-2-the-datagov-challenge/ > | May 23 01:02 |
DaemonFC | by Valve's usage stats, Vista has 30.64% of the market | May 23 01:03 |
DaemonFC | for Windows anyway | May 23 01:03 |
_Hicham_ | when will this fucking Microsoft die? | May 23 01:05 |
_Hicham_ | there must be a strategy to kill it | May 23 01:05 |
schestowitz | Twitter shoots through the roof: Twitter Surges Past Digg, LinkedIn, And NYTimes.com With 32 Million Global Visitors < http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/05/20/twitter-surges-past-digg-linkedin-and-nytimescom-with-32-million-global-visitors/ > | May 23 01:05 |
_Hicham_ | the biggest mistake of linux is that it neglected the desktop | May 23 01:05 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: it's already dying | May 23 01:05 |
schestowitz | Give it time | May 23 01:05 |
_Hicham_ | I won't to see die before I die | May 23 01:06 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: Are teh trial versions of Ultima crippled? | May 23 01:06 |
DaemonFC | I mean if you play them on a freeshard | May 23 01:06 |
DaemonFC | the trials have some stuff I don't | May 23 01:06 |
schestowitz | The Solipsist and the Internet (a Review of Helprin's Digital Barbarism) < http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lawrence-lessig/the-solipsist-and-the-int_b_206021.html > | May 23 01:07 |
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schestowitz | This Week's Terrorism Arrests < http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/05/this_weeks_terr.html > | May 23 01:12 |
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tacone | you spit in the eye of a deputy today | May 23 01:14 |
tacone | tomorrow you get arrested because you were plotting to blow up a church. | May 23 01:14 |
schestowitz | heh. | May 23 01:16 |
schestowitz | They can dig deep | May 23 01:16 |
schestowitz | And they lie, too | May 23 01:16 |
schestowitz | Many times | May 23 01:16 |
schestowitz | It's like messing with the mafia | May 23 01:16 |
schestowitz | But the mafia you can report to the police | May 23 01:16 |
_Hicham_ | tacone is a known maffioso | May 23 01:17 |
_Hicham_ | Hi tacone | May 23 01:17 |
schestowitz | Lousy Seattle reports: http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/169306.asp?source=rss | May 23 01:17 |
_Hicham_ | do u have a lot of maffiosi over there? | May 23 01:17 |
schestowitz | Sucking up to Microsoft while corrupting the term open source | May 23 01:17 |
schestowitz | See what they do there to "open source"? | May 23 01:18 |
schestowitz | Who does one report about the police too? There must be a mechanism that regulates the police somehow | May 23 01:18 |
schestowitz | BillG has not left MS | May 23 01:19 |
schestowitz | Just giving PRIVATE talks now: http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/169250.asp?source=rss | May 23 01:19 |
schestowitz | And it requires Silver Lie | May 23 01:19 |
schestowitz | "While it shows that Microsoft understands the benefits of free software, this site mostly contains tiny add-ons to proprietary Microsoft products." http://www.cio.com/article/493224/Ex_Microsoftie_Free_Software_Will_Kill_Redmond?page=3 | May 23 01:20 |
tacone | yeah, me mafioso | May 23 01:20 |
DaemonFC | I won't install Silverlight | May 23 01:21 |
DaemonFC | I noticed vista won't let you hide it though | May 23 01:21 |
DaemonFC | in the "Optional" section of Windows Update | May 23 01:21 |
DaemonFC | but it's unchecked by default | May 23 01:21 |
tacone | install moonlight | May 23 01:21 |
tacone | i mean, how cool, it downloads linux stuff from microsoft.com | May 23 01:21 |
DaemonFC | mmhm | May 23 01:22 |
DaemonFC | Mono on Windows is fairly pointless | May 23 01:22 |
DaemonFC | because it's not even .Net compatible | May 23 01:22 |
_Hicham_ | Mono is a revolution on Windows | May 23 01:22 |
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_Hicham_ | Mono will beat .Net on Windows | May 23 01:23 |
_Hicham_ | coz it is cross platform | May 23 01:23 |
_Hicham_ | hahahahahaha | May 23 01:23 |
tacone | i bet .net can run mono stuff better than mono can run .net stuff | May 23 01:23 |
schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sBfUjNE3HQ | May 23 01:23 |
schestowitz | > <tacone> i mean, how cool, it downloads linux stuff from microsoft.com | May 23 01:24 |
tacone | another pointless novell promo ? | May 23 01:24 |
schestowitz | MS grabs IPs | May 23 01:24 |
schestowitz | For IP | May 23 01:24 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz is promoting flash | May 23 01:24 |
schestowitz | Intelelctual monopoly | May 23 01:24 |
schestowitz | Balance0-sheet liability | May 23 01:24 |
schestowitz | Harevst IPs for IP | May 23 01:24 |
schestowitz | tacone: yeah, just popped up in the feed | May 23 01:25 |
tacone | crank up and scream on your bansheeeeee | May 23 01:25 |
tacone | linux sets you freeeeee-eeeeee-eeeeeeeee | May 23 01:25 |
schestowitz | >tacone> i bet .net can run mono stuff better than mono can run .net stuff | May 23 01:25 |
schestowitz | That's the plan | May 23 01:25 |
tacone | schestowitz: novell is good at promos. | May 23 01:25 |
schestowitz | Novell lackeys write | May 23 01:25 |
schestowitz | Other volunteers write code | May 23 01:25 |
schestowitz | Microsoft sweeps it over to Winders | May 23 01:25 |
schestowitz | Then runs it on .NET | May 23 01:25 |
schestowitz | Sued Mono | May 23 01:25 |
tacone | i still can't help but think of mono as microsoft plan b. | May 23 01:26 |
schestowitz | Says "thank you and goodbye" to Linux devs | May 23 01:26 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz should't promote flash | May 23 01:26 |
schestowitz | *Sues | May 23 01:26 |
schestowitz | Or *SUSE | May 23 01:26 |
tacone | they're doing very bad with windows | May 23 01:26 |
schestowitz | :-) | May 23 01:26 |
ReverseGTR | schestowitz, I would love to watch that on Youtube, if I got Gnash freaking working on this YDL v5 distro | May 23 01:26 |
tacone | if linux catches on (and it's catching on), they absolutely need MS Office on linux | May 23 01:26 |
tacone | they can't leave linux without office. | May 23 01:26 |
schestowitz | Not rrue | May 23 01:27 |
schestowitz | There's Fod Computing | May 23 01:27 |
_Hicham_ | nice commercial schestowitz | May 23 01:27 |
schestowitz | *Fog | May 23 01:27 |
schestowitz | And they move office there | May 23 01:27 |
ReverseGTR | tacone, if only Lotus still had value in their brandname | May 23 01:27 |
tacone | true, there's fog computing. but how effective is it right now ? | May 23 01:27 |
tacone | browsers suck ! | May 23 01:27 |
_Hicham_ | ReverseGTR : gnash works | May 23 01:27 |
_Hicham_ | tacone, what about OpenOffice? | May 23 01:27 |
oiaohm | schestowitz: tacone don't make the bet that .net can run mono stuff better than mono can run .net stuff. | May 23 01:28 |
oiaohm | One of the night mares of .net built a program with mono it will not run with ms .net and vice verser. | May 23 01:28 |
tacone | oiaohm: parse error. | May 23 01:29 |
oiaohm | Exactly. | May 23 01:29 |
_Hicham_ | so what is mono for? | May 23 01:29 |
tacone | lol | May 23 01:29 |
oiaohm | MS cannot parse mono produced bytecode. | May 23 01:29 |
_Hicham_ | a cheap cross platform alternative to .net? | May 23 01:29 |
oiaohm | All the time. | May 23 01:29 |
oiaohm | Same with the mirror. | May 23 01:29 |
oiaohm | Basically MS .net is not to spec. | May 23 01:29 |
oiaohm | Why should we be supprised at that. | May 23 01:30 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : how will u convince distros that Mono is non free? | May 23 01:30 |
_Hicham_ | debian considers it free | May 23 01:30 |
ReverseGTR | _Hicham_, I know Gnash works, it just depends on finding which is the right rpm for which platform and distro | May 23 01:30 |
schestowitz | In this new video, Novell is executing Tux/ GroupWise http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHB56-oPGGE | May 23 01:30 |
_Hicham_ | ReverseGTR : compile it urself | May 23 01:30 |
ReverseGTR | _Hicham_, I don't have time now with the wait and resolving dependencies | May 23 01:31 |
schestowitz | gn | May 23 01:32 |
_Hicham_ | what distro are u on? | May 23 01:32 |
ReverseGTR | schestowitz, thx your videos will help test my gnash | May 23 01:32 |
tacone | come on guys | May 23 01:32 |
ReverseGTR | _Hicham_, Yellow Dog Linux v5.02 I think, it has elements of Fedora 5 and 6 | May 23 01:32 |
tacone | moonlight lets you watch playboy | May 23 01:33 |
tacone | how can it be so bad ? | May 23 01:33 |
_Hicham_ | it is old then | May 23 01:33 |
_Hicham_ | tacone : fuck flash, fuck mono, fuck moonlight | May 23 01:34 |
_Hicham_ | vive Firefox and built-in ogg | May 23 01:34 |
ReverseGTR | _Hicham_, if only those became more standard | May 23 01:34 |
_Hicham_ | ReverseGTR : problem with gnash is high cpu usage | May 23 01:35 |
_Hicham_ | same with swfdec | May 23 01:35 |
_Hicham_ | though swfdec seems to outperform gnash | May 23 01:35 |
ReverseGTR | _Hicham_, and developers took advantage of the fact that you can plug in .mpegs .h264, .ogg. .flac and ect directly in HTML5 | May 23 01:35 |
tacone | not that flash is not havy | May 23 01:35 |
tacone | that is short lived | May 23 01:35 |
tacone | no advantage in direct embedding. | May 23 01:35 |
oiaohm | flash is lighter than silverlight. | May 23 01:36 |
tacone | look at youtube | May 23 01:36 |
oiaohm | Works better to with streaming. | May 23 01:36 |
tacone | can you see them dropping their player for a direct embedment ? | May 23 01:36 |
ReverseGTR | tacone, you are aware Youtube Mobile is in .h264 | May 23 01:36 |
tacone | no more galleries, search, etc | May 23 01:36 |
tacone | yes I am, but mobile is another world. | May 23 01:36 |
oiaohm | Direct embed will not get filtered by stuff like noscript. | May 23 01:36 |
tacone | oiaohm: nice point. | May 23 01:37 |
tacone | could be a nicer degrade | May 23 01:37 |
_Hicham_ | but it is more secure than flash | May 23 01:37 |
tacone | but still i think they won't do that. too easy to figure out how to download and save the video. | May 23 01:37 |
tacone | still, oiaohm, the point about the good degrade is nice | May 23 01:38 |
tacone | many people may have interest in that. | May 23 01:38 |
oiaohm | youtube firefox extention its all realy darn easy. | May 23 01:38 |
ReverseGTR | holy crap I hate the fact that for all intensive purposes YUM apps still can't resolve dependencies on their dam own | May 23 01:38 |
oiaohm | Then you have miro and others other there download youtube stuff. | May 23 01:38 |
ReverseGTR | you would think having access to huge ftp databases would help | May 23 01:38 |
tacone | i'm about to publish an interview with a mac guy. he says ubuntu lacks YaST ... | May 23 01:38 |
tacone | :o | May 23 01:38 |
oiaohm | So basically other than a few video hear and there its not a secuirty advantage running flash. | May 23 01:39 |
oiaohm | If anything its just extra downloads per month. | May 23 01:39 |
_Hicham_ | flashgot is the most powerful extension to download any streaming media | May 23 01:39 |
ReverseGTR | oiaohm, direct embedding would solve so many compatibility issues | May 23 01:39 |
ReverseGTR | oiaohm, also a direct embedded videoclip can be filtered too, by the user | May 23 01:39 |
_Hicham_ | flashgot is efficient 100% | May 23 01:39 |
tacone | schestowitz: no more dos ? | May 23 01:40 |
ReverseGTR | tacone, I think schesty gone beddy bye | May 23 01:41 |
tacone | oh | May 23 01:41 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz is asleep now | May 23 01:41 |
tacone | poor boy | May 23 01:42 |
_Hicham_ | he is dreaming of Mono stack | May 23 01:42 |
tacone | _Hicham_: lol | May 23 01:42 |
ReverseGTR | so I guess this channel stops once schestowitz is gone | May 23 01:48 |
tacone | we're talking in #goodnight-schestwitz | May 23 01:49 |
tacone | please join | May 23 01:49 |
ReverseGTR | lol | May 23 01:49 |
Balrog_ | tacone: right lol | May 23 01:50 |
ReverseGTR | I guess its on the subject of the right nighttime lullabye | May 23 01:50 |
tacone | by the way is quite late night in europe | May 23 01:50 |
Balrog_ | here it's 9PM i.e. 19:00 | May 23 01:51 |
Balrog_ | err, 21:00 | May 23 01:51 |
*Balrog_ fails at math???? | May 23 01:51 | |
Balrog_ | I hope not :P | May 23 01:51 |
tacone | here's is 3.00 am | May 23 01:51 |
Balrog_ | wow | May 23 01:52 |
tacone | i.e. you're a day behind: FAIL ! | May 23 01:52 |
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_Hicham_ | Balrog_ is a physicist | May 23 01:57 |
_Hicham_ | a quantum physics physics | May 23 01:58 |
_Hicham_ | who is with Einstein determinism | May 23 01:58 |
Balrog_ | ;P | May 23 01:59 |
Balrog_ | I'm /studying/ physics, but I'm not a physicist yet ... lol | May 23 01:59 |
_Hicham_ | and tacone is a confirmed maffioso | May 23 02:00 |
_Hicham_ | with a great background | May 23 02:00 |
_Hicham_ | 999 kills | May 23 02:00 |
_Hicham_ | 100 successful bank robbories | May 23 02:01 |
_Hicham_ | and the list goes on | May 23 02:01 |
_Hicham_ | where is oiaohm? | May 23 02:02 |
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ReverseGTR | anyway for the meantime im off | May 23 02:05 |
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DaemonFC | schestowitz: Microsoft is paying Edelman | May 23 02:27 |
DaemonFC | I thought those ads seemed familiar | May 23 02:27 |
DaemonFC | my former employer also had/is having Edelman whitewash their image | May 23 02:28 |
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_Hicham_ | schestowitz is asleep | May 23 02:28 |
DaemonFC | there isn't anything those people won't do for money | May 23 02:28 |
DaemonFC | yeah, Edelman specializes in astroturf | May 23 02:29 |
DaemonFC | it's all they do | May 23 02:29 |
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_Hicham_ | wb tacone | May 23 02:41 |
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oiaohm | Problem with autoturfing is soon or latter people believe there own turfing. | May 23 02:54 |
submitted the Au charity bait and switch backlash to Slashdot http://slashdot.org/submission/1006087/Au-Charity-Backlash-to-M-Bait-and-Switch | May 23 03:07 | |
updated the death watch http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/213707 | May 23 03:07 | |
Nice story and it looks like it will have a happy ending as fewer charity dollars are wasted on software that sucks. | May 23 03:08 | |
DaemonFC | ugggh | May 23 03:09 |
DaemonFC | I wonder if he's wrote about MS + Edelman | May 23 03:09 |
DaemonFC | it would be worth writing about | May 23 03:10 |
DaemonFC | I knew their ads sounded familiar | May 23 03:10 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: Walmart came under criticism for paying their employees minimum wage and encouraging them to fill in the gap with public assistance | May 23 03:11 |
DaemonFC | that's why they hired Edelman | May 23 03:11 |
less than minimum wage - they make sure most employees are "part time" | May 23 03:12 | |
DaemonFC | I was in middle management there | May 23 03:12 |
DaemonFC | they reward for ideas on how to fuck employees over | May 23 03:13 |
ouch, then you know all about it | May 23 03:13 | |
DaemonFC | yes | May 23 03:13 |
I'm told they send employees home at 35 hours, no exceptions now. | May 23 03:13 | |
DaemonFC | but their assistant managers end up working unpaid overtime to fill in for sending the hourly employees home | May 23 03:13 |
DaemonFC | I got out of there in 2007 | May 23 03:14 |
DaemonFC | spent 3 years there | May 23 03:14 |
from what I read, they used to make everyone work unpaid overtime. | May 23 03:14 | |
you had the time of your life, I'm sure. | May 23 03:14 | |
DaemonFC | I've heard about that, never did see it happen though | May 23 03:14 |
DaemonFC | not saying it didn't | May 23 03:14 |
DaemonFC | wouldn't put it past them | May 23 03:14 |
DaemonFC | oh yeah, get there at 8 PM | May 23 03:15 |
DaemonFC | stay there until 8, 9, or 10 AM | May 23 03:15 |
they adopt to minimize costs | May 23 03:15 | |
DaemonFC | put in 60+ hours a week for just under $40,000 a year | May 23 03:15 |
DaemonFC | yeah | May 23 03:15 |
DaemonFC | every level gets screwed over by the next level up | May 23 03:16 |
not bad money for what it is, but very bad hours. | May 23 03:16 | |
DaemonFC | until you're at store or district management level | May 23 03:16 |
bad hours seem to be the big dumb company norm | May 23 03:16 | |
DaemonFC | then you're pulling in 6 figures | May 23 03:16 |
DaemonFC | easy | May 23 03:16 |
oiaohm | The bate and switch is desperation. | May 23 03:17 |
for all of that, WalMart's profit margins are still thin, not like M$'s or oil | May 23 03:17 | |
DaemonFC | they have 2 people out of 400-500 employees in a store | May 23 03:17 |
DaemonFC | who actually make decent money for what they do | May 23 03:17 |
DaemonFC | thin as a percentage maybe | May 23 03:17 |
DaemonFC | they make money by selling a LOT of stuff | May 23 03:17 |
well, there's not great money to be made in ordering and opening boxes of crap from China | May 23 03:18 | |
DaemonFC | from thousands of stores | May 23 03:18 |
DaemonFC | right, they have to sell a lot of it | May 23 03:18 |
DaemonFC | which they do | May 23 03:18 |
did | May 23 03:18 | |
DaemonFC | and yes there is good profit on a lot of that stuff | May 23 03:18 |
DaemonFC | clothes gets 60% margin on average | May 23 03:18 |
DaemonFC | it's the groceries that make the least profit | May 23 03:19 |
that is lower than the usual 100% markup. | May 23 03:19 | |
DaemonFC | they run the cheap groceries to get people in there to buy more expensive stuff | May 23 03:19 |
DaemonFC | you may as well if you already have the land | May 23 03:19 |
DaemonFC | groceries are usually 5-35% markup | May 23 03:20 |
groceries at retail level is a very compeititve market | May 23 03:20 | |
and there's spoilage | May 23 03:20 | |
ouch machine | May 23 03:20 | |
DaemonFC | yeah, they already ran one of the supermarkets here out of business | May 23 03:20 |
DaemonFC | what they'll do is run them all out | May 23 03:20 |
DaemonFC | then jack up the prices | May 23 03:20 |
DaemonFC | their strategy is to dump cheap stuff til they run everyone else out | May 23 03:21 |
DaemonFC | then they raise prices | May 23 03:21 |
I've yet to see them get away with jacking up | May 23 03:21 | |
people buy the stuff when it's dumped and keep it. | May 23 03:21 | |
DaemonFC | no they don't | May 23 03:21 |
you don't think? | May 23 03:21 | |
DaemonFC | the stuff they sell is designed to wear out, go obsolete, or break | May 23 03:21 |
almost everything is | May 23 03:22 | |
DaemonFC | so you may have saved 30% but it lasts half as long as a quality made widget | May 23 03:22 |
DaemonFC | then they end up buying more of them | May 23 03:22 |
or giving up having the widget | May 23 03:22 | |
DaemonFC | nah | May 23 03:23 |
DaemonFC | they've changed their computers a little | May 23 03:23 |
DaemonFC | most of them are now all motherboard integrated components | May 23 03:23 |
DaemonFC | and that's enough to run Vista Home Premium | May 23 03:24 |
DaemonFC | acceptably well | May 23 03:24 |
DaemonFC | but you get in there | May 23 03:24 |
DaemonFC | and find out they don't have upgrade ports | May 23 03:24 |
DaemonFC | so when the thing gets 1-2 years old and you want an upgrade, a lot of people will throw the PC away | May 23 03:24 |
DaemonFC | so you have customers that buy 3 computers where 1 good one would have kept going | May 23 03:25 |
I'm not sure Vista is acceptable to anyone, which is why decidedly un upgradable netbooks are selling well. | May 23 03:25 | |
DaemonFC | and that's also 3 copies of Windows | May 23 03:25 |
Or it's a bunch of junk sitting on a shelf | May 23 03:25 | |
DaemonFC | computers have sped up to where they can cope with Vista | May 23 03:25 |
It's still the worst version of Windows ever and people still hate it. | May 23 03:26 | |
DaemonFC | when XP came out in 2001 it was terrible on the $500 pc's, then by 2003 anything you bought could run it well enough | May 23 03:26 |
DaemonFC | so it's all a matter of hardware catching up | May 23 03:26 |
XP still sucks, even on new hardware. | May 23 03:26 | |
DaemonFC | unfortunately you get the next Windows and the last batch of systems | May 23 03:27 |
it crashes daily, has big time security problems. | May 23 03:27 | |
DaemonFC | and they just don't help each other | May 23 03:27 |
I'm familiar with the Windows treadmill. | May 23 03:27 | |
DaemonFC | Apple can control that cause they can make sure the hardware is good enough to handle the new more bloated OS X | May 23 03:27 |
this time it's really not working | May 23 03:27 | |
DaemonFC | so they never get he reputation of OS X being slow and horrible | May 23 03:28 |
imagine never selling stuff that's slow and horrible .... | May 23 03:28 | |
amazing concept | May 23 03:28 | |
DaemonFC | there's a Mac treadmill too | May 23 03:28 |
oiaohm | DaemonFC: you are quoting how MS got themselves into troule. | May 23 03:28 |
DaemonFC | it's jsut not as obvious | May 23 03:28 |
oiaohm | Netbooks went against the normal tide. | May 23 03:28 |
DaemonFC | yeah, and Apple doesn't have anything like it | May 23 03:29 |
oiaohm | Idea that hardware will always get bigger is a trap. | May 23 03:29 |
the Apple treadmill is much less obvious because they are happy to hand out OS to those who ask and the hardware is not so bloated in the first place. | May 23 03:29 | |
DaemonFC | I'm sure OS X Leopard wouldn't scale down to that either | May 23 03:29 |
DRM is a trap | May 23 03:29 | |
DaemonFC | without some serious overhaul | May 23 03:29 |
oiaohm | OS X kernel is in iphone. | May 23 03:29 |
a trap that nailed M$ | May 23 03:29 | |
DaemonFC | yeah, the Windows kernel is in smart phones | May 23 03:29 |
oiaohm | Yes OS X could be got to scale down quite well. | May 23 03:29 |
DaemonFC | so yeah | May 23 03:29 |
DaemonFC | neither system is bloated to the core | May 23 03:30 |
Windows Mobil is the pits. | May 23 03:30 | |
oiaohm | Windows Mobel is not a NT kernel. | May 23 03:30 |
older software that's been soundly rejected. | May 23 03:30 | |
oiaohm | iphone and OS X is sharing other bits as well. | May 23 03:30 |
DaemonFC | Mine runs that Symbian OS | May 23 03:30 |
iPhone kicks all M$ junk's ass | May 23 03:30 | |
DaemonFC | Opera runs on it | May 23 03:31 |
Android will be good too | May 23 03:31 | |
DaemonFC | that beats the shit out of "Pocket Internet Explorer" | May 23 03:31 |
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DaemonFC | :) | May 23 03:31 |
heliographs work better than pocket IE | May 23 03:31 | |
the_mad_hatter | Roy, looks like the US Army is going to commit Seppuku on a large scale | May 23 03:31 |
? | May 23 03:31 | |
oiaohm | OS X still runs quite well with the same ammount of ram it had when it was first released DaemonFC | May 23 03:31 |
the_mad_hatter | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137451/us-army-finally-moves-vista | May 23 03:32 |
oiaohm | XP after all its service packs got heiver. | May 23 03:32 |
Windows people project M$ flaws everywhere they look. It's all in their heads. | May 23 03:32 | |
the_mad_hatter | OSX works very well. It's a nice OS. | May 23 03:32 |
Vista for US Army ... oh my. | May 23 03:32 | |
not even M$ recommends a move to Vista now. | May 23 03:33 | |
DaemonFC | XP's pretty snappy | May 23 03:33 |
DaemonFC | even on older hardware | May 23 03:34 |
the_mad_hatter | Yeah. Pretty stupid. | May 23 03:34 |
DaemonFC | that's why people are staying with that | May 23 03:34 |
the_mad_hatter | But XP has crap driver support. | May 23 03:34 |
oiaohm | OS X is from XP time frame. | May 23 03:34 |
DaemonFC | no | May 23 03:34 |
DaemonFC | OS X original was | May 23 03:34 |
DaemonFC | it's gotten much more bloated | May 23 03:34 |
DaemonFC | and the 10.0 release was buggy | May 23 03:34 |
DaemonFC | and unstable | May 23 03:34 |
Something is wrong with that story. | May 23 03:34 | |
DaemonFC | and incomplete | May 23 03:35 |
DaemonFC | you couldn't watch DVDs on it for example | May 23 03:35 |
DaemonFC | so they shipped with OS 9 | May 23 03:35 |
DaemonFC | and gave you the 10.0 disc separately | May 23 03:35 |
oiaohm | http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2176 OS X still works well on 256 megs of ram. | May 23 03:35 |
DaemonFC | it wasn't good enough to pre-install | May 23 03:35 |
oiaohm | Time frame in required resources. | May 23 03:35 |
Argh, it's source is Ina Fried - discount with extreme prejudice | May 23 03:35 | |
DaemonFC | right, but 10.0 was basically sending people back to OS 9 | May 23 03:36 |
DaemonFC | in horror | May 23 03:36 |
DaemonFC | so it's not like Apple has never had this happen | May 23 03:36 |
DaemonFC | they did give out 10.1 discs for free | May 23 03:36 |
the_mad_hatter | I've run 10.3 on an antique MacBook, worked fine. | May 23 03:36 |
DaemonFC | to people that got screwed with 10.0 | May 23 03:36 |
the_mad_hatter | In regards the US Army | May 23 03:36 |
the_mad_hatter | Tame RIAA politicians denounce other countries | May 23 03:36 |
the_mad_hatter | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137422/tame-riaa-politicians-denounce-countries | May 23 03:36 |
DaemonFC | yeah, why would they waste all that money when Windows 7 will be out in months? | May 23 03:36 |
oiaohm | Apple provide both OS's at time of 10. | May 23 03:36 |
oiaohm | They spected teething problems. | May 23 03:36 |
DaemonFC | We're going to Vista with 700,000 systems, then 7 next year? | May 23 03:37 |
DaemonFC | shit | May 23 03:37 |
the_mad_hatter | from the article | May 23 03:37 |
the_mad_hatter | If the Big Music Mafiaa would have its way, World War Three might then be started over a file-shared Britney Spears tune or copy of Rocky 9, with NATO allies the first to be nuked. | May 23 03:37 |
It's Ina Fried bullshit | May 23 03:37 | |
DaemonFC | yeah, OS X had major problems | May 23 03:37 |
DaemonFC | that's why they gave 10.1 for free | May 23 03:37 |
oiaohm | No look closer. Apple does not sell OS upgrades. | May 23 03:37 |
this is the supposed source, but I still don't believe it http://www.army.mil/-news/2009/05/20/21389-army-migrating-computers-to-vista/ | May 23 03:37 | |
DaemonFC | yes they do | May 23 03:38 |
oiaohm | Apple is not a software company. | May 23 03:38 |
the_mad_hatter | That's covered quite well at Roughly Drafted, there's several good articles about the evolution of OSX | May 23 03:38 |
DaemonFC | I have upgrade discs | May 23 03:38 |
DaemonFC | bought FROM Apple | May 23 03:38 |
oiaohm | They sell hardware upgrades to allow you to run new version. | May 23 03:38 |
DaemonFC | no | May 23 03:38 |
DaemonFC | they sell upgrade discs | May 23 03:38 |
oiaohm | That is the disk. | May 23 03:38 |
oiaohm | Not the software on it. | May 23 03:38 |
DaemonFC | no | May 23 03:38 |
West Point knows better so it's hard to believe the US army would be dumb enough to buy another version of Windows ever again. | May 23 03:38 | |
oiaohm | Read licence carefuly. | May 23 03:38 |
DaemonFC | I mean my system came with 10.3 | May 23 03:38 |
oiaohm | If you have 10 machines | May 23 03:38 |
the_mad_hatter | They did sell upgrade disks. They no longer do. | May 23 03:38 |
DaemonFC | I have the 10.4 upgrade | May 23 03:38 |
oiaohm | You only need to buy 1 disk. | May 23 03:38 |
oiaohm | They are not selling you the software. | May 23 03:39 |
the_mad_hatter | And there was no 10.5 upgrade. Instead you got the whole works. | May 23 03:39 |
ah ha, " The Army is migrating all of its Windows-based computers to Microsoft Vista" All that will be left. | May 23 03:40 | |
the_mad_hatter | Apple no longer sells upgrades, which is an advantage. I remember having to install the original OS, and then go through several upgrades, and damn, you were in trouble if you forgot where you put the manual, and were missing even on key | May 23 03:40 |
the_mad_hatter | sorry, should have read "one key". | May 23 03:40 |
the_mad_hatter | That happened to me once. Frustrating as hell. I prefer Linux, no CD keys. | May 23 03:41 |
oiaohm | Key stuck to side of machne that kids had destroyed was fun. | May 23 03:41 |
oiaohm | Sending photo of machine to apple saying please give me a new key. And I got it. | May 23 03:41 |
oiaohm | MS other hand screwed. | May 23 03:41 |
the_mad_hatter | Just curious, anyone have a Blue Ray player? | May 23 03:42 |
Basically, the US Army is going against what it knows is best policy to bail out M$'s failed OS. | May 23 03:42 | |
oiaohm | I don't my dvd player has not died no need to upgrde. | May 23 03:43 |
the_mad_hatter | Oh shit, Charlie's on a rampage again <G> | May 23 03:43 |
good | May 23 03:43 | |
the_mad_hatter | Tukwila delayed until 2010 - Charlie Demerjian | May 23 03:43 |
the_mad_hatter | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137434/tukwila-delayed-2010 | May 23 03:43 |
the_mad_hatter | Grabs the crown from Duke Nukem Forever | May 23 03:43 |
DaemonFC | so you can still upgrade right? | May 23 03:44 |
DaemonFC | to the new Mac OS releases? | May 23 03:44 |
DaemonFC | meh, it's easy to install Vista if you don't have a serial :P | May 23 03:45 |
DaemonFC | but I wouldn't know anything about that | May 23 03:45 |
oiaohm | Mac OS went to bios like stored key so avoiding the hell. | May 23 03:46 |
DaemonFC | same as Vista | May 23 03:46 |
oiaohm | Not all units. | May 23 03:46 |
DaemonFC | XP also had that capability | May 23 03:46 |
DaemonFC | no, every OEM Vista machien has one | May 23 03:46 |
oiaohm | Not white box class DaemonFC | May 23 03:47 |
oiaohm | That makes up most of the OEM sales. | May 23 03:47 |
DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Locked_Preinstallation | May 23 03:47 |
oiaohm | major OEM computer manufacturers << Did you miss that. | May 23 03:48 |
oiaohm | Not all do. | May 23 03:48 |
oiaohm | System Locked Preinstallation is not what Mac OS is. | May 23 03:49 |
the_mad_hatter | As long as Charlie is still there, the Inq will still have something. | May 23 03:50 |
oiaohm | Mac OS is basically using the Motherboard serial number as key to OS DaemonFC. | May 23 03:50 |
DaemonFC | yeah | May 23 03:51 |
oiaohm | They still operate under the old solarias model of doing business. You aquired the hardware you get the software for nothing. | May 23 03:51 |
DaemonFC | sounds like SLP | May 23 03:51 |
DaemonFC | OS X is not free | May 23 03:51 |
oiaohm | If you want disks with software on you pay. | May 23 03:52 |
oiaohm | Neither was solarias DaemonFC. Both are the same sales model. | May 23 03:52 |
oiaohm | Cheep if you own a lot of machines. | May 23 03:52 |
oiaohm | Expesnive as hell if you only own 1. | May 23 03:52 |
heh, the US army does bad math. | May 23 03:54 | |
Ina Fried took it up. | May 23 03:54 | |
They say that 13% have Vista and that's 44,000 computers | May 23 03:54 | |
this makes a projected total of 340,000 desktops | May 23 03:55 | |
but the article also says that the Army has 740,000 desktops | May 23 03:55 | |
That means more than half of the US army's desktops are running something other than Windows. | May 23 03:55 | |
or the reporter has math problems. | May 23 03:55 | |
oiaohm | Correct | May 23 03:56 |
If you believe what West Point has to say, it's not a math problem. | May 23 03:56 | |
oiaohm | Lot of weapon control systems run Linux or Solarias or some other Unix. | May 23 03:56 |
http://slashdot.org/submission/1003983/West-Point-Maxes-Security-by-Minning-Windows | May 23 03:56 | |
but weapons control systems are not "desktops" are they? | May 23 03:56 | |
oiaohm | Taticallical control operation systems are. | May 23 03:57 |
oiaohm | They are those huge port lugables that are basically bomb proff. | May 23 03:57 |
oiaohm | There are somethings you don't trust windows on. | May 23 03:58 |
the_mad_hatter | Yeah, everything. | May 23 03:58 |
oiaohm | Also windows has not passed clearance for highly classified data either. | May 23 03:59 |
the_mad_hatter | And never will. | May 23 03:59 |
oiaohm | Redhat did. | May 23 03:59 |
the_mad_hatter | Unless Microsoft bribes the test team. | May 23 03:59 |
the_mad_hatter | Yeah, but that's Linux. | May 23 03:59 |
or redefines "security" again | May 23 03:59 | |
the_mad_hatter | Bribes. | May 23 04:00 |
the_mad_hatter | Bribes always work. | May 23 04:00 |
DaemonFC | there's better ways to do things than UNIX | May 23 04:01 |
DaemonFC | but they just never took | May 23 04:01 |
the_mad_hatter | Here's another one - How Geeks Really Party | May 23 04:01 |
the_mad_hatter | Everclear, liquid nitrogen and Phenoms make a party | May 23 04:01 |
DaemonFC | even the original inventors of UNIX redid everything with Plan 9 | May 23 04:01 |
the_mad_hatter | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137436/everclear-liquid-nitrogen-phenoms-party | May 23 04:02 |
the_mad_hatter | Yeah, well AT&T Unix was fairly open. | May 23 04:02 |
DaemonFC | no | May 23 04:02 |
DaemonFC | not open | May 23 04:02 |
the_mad_hatter | That is why it took off, and the others didn't. | May 23 04:02 |
DaemonFC | just stupidly licensed source code | May 23 04:02 |
the_mad_hatter | Fairly I said. | May 23 04:02 |
oiaohm | Standard Unix without selinux or better tech does not pass the required tests. | May 23 04:03 |
the_mad_hatter | Yes, you could get the source. You couldn't with anything else. | May 23 04:03 |
DaemonFC | they weren't trying to make it open or encourage it to be cloned | May 23 04:03 |
DaemonFC | the way of thinking back then was different | May 23 04:03 |
oiaohm | For high classification. | May 23 04:03 |
the_mad_hatter | No, but that was the result. | May 23 04:03 |
DaemonFC | and they did a lot of stupid things | May 23 04:03 |
DaemonFC | with regards to trying to keep it proprietary | May 23 04:03 |
oiaohm | Windows NT has equal evils. | May 23 04:03 |
DaemonFC | every OS sucks at some point | May 23 04:04 |
oiaohm | Linux is only starting to remove X11 from needing root. | May 23 04:04 |
DaemonFC | it's just unfortunate that none of them can really take the micromanagement out | May 23 04:04 |
oiaohm | Solarias did that years ago. | May 23 04:04 |
DaemonFC | barf | May 23 04:05 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 23 04:05 |
DaemonFC | sorry, you said the X word | May 23 04:05 |
X11 rocks | May 23 04:05 | |
oiaohm | It will rock. | May 23 04:05 |
useful from embedded systems up | May 23 04:05 | |
oiaohm | currently it still has issues. | May 23 04:05 |
Everything has issues when you are around Ohm. | May 23 04:06 | |
the_mad_hatter | Technologically it's outpacing Microsloth development. | May 23 04:06 |
bad decision making documented http://slashdot.org/submission/1006103/US-Army-Moves-to-Vista | May 23 04:06 | |
X11 outpaced everyone back in 1983 when it was created at MIT. | May 23 04:06 | |
M$ will never catch up. | May 23 04:06 | |
Free software makes excellent use of it. | May 23 04:07 | |
oiaohm | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=wayland_q209&num=1 wayland is reworking the idea of X11. | May 23 04:08 |
the_mad_hatter | M$ is in a downward spiral. | May 23 04:08 |
DaemonFC | I hate X | May 23 04:08 |
DaemonFC | with undying passion | May 23 04:08 |
Oh look, my article about Au bait and switch has already been voted down. How busy and attentive the astroturfers are | May 23 04:09 | |
DaemonFC | just now do they start doing something to modernize it | May 23 04:09 |
What exactly do you hate about X FC? | May 23 04:09 | |
DaemonFC | it's like trying to take a cockroach infested slum and turning it into an upper class neighborhood | May 23 04:09 |
DaemonFC | it's been so neglected for so many years | May 23 04:09 |
DaemonFC | I wish them all the luck | May 23 04:09 |
DaemonFC | you know? | May 23 04:10 |
It's had composting transparency and acceleration since the late 90s | May 23 04:10 | |
and it was xorg was forked just a couple of years ago | May 23 04:10 | |
DaemonFC | well they split from XFree86 over the same reasons X.org sucked for the last 5 years | May 23 04:10 |
DaemonFC | and it's nice to see some leadership finally | May 23 04:10 |
the framework was solid 25 years ago and development has been hot all along | May 23 04:10 | |
oiaohm | DaemonFC: most of the core of X11 will disappear in the next 2 years. | May 23 04:11 |
the_mad_hatter | And that's the beauty of Free Software. If you have a problem, you can always fork. | May 23 04:11 |
DaemonFC | glacial development | May 23 04:11 |
replaced by what? | May 23 04:11 | |
oiaohm | DRI2 removes all the lower systems of X11. | May 23 04:11 |
oiaohm | From the past. | May 23 04:11 |
What graphical subsystem do you think is better, FC? Vista's ha ha | May 23 04:11 | |
the_mad_hatter | Crap, Chalk River is down again. | May 23 04:11 |
oiaohm | Most of them were broken. | May 23 04:11 |
DaemonFC | Keitch Packard even said something like there were 11 new models of Radeon added all at once in one XFree86 release | May 23 04:11 |
DaemonFC | after people had been trying to use them for over a year | May 23 04:11 |
DaemonFC | before that | May 23 04:11 |
DaemonFC | *Keith | May 23 04:12 |
oiaohm | Wayback its a heavly cut back X11 server. | May 23 04:12 |
Radeon has always sucked | May 23 04:12 | |
DaemonFC | no actually | May 23 04:12 |
oiaohm | Opps wayland. | May 23 04:12 |
DaemonFC | I thought Y had a lot of potential | May 23 04:12 |
DaemonFC | but it never took off | May 23 04:12 |
DaemonFC | sadly | May 23 04:12 |
the_mad_hatter | FYI, Chalk River supplies half of the world's medical radioactive isotopes. The Reactor is over 40 years old. | May 23 04:12 |
DaemonFC | http://www.y-windows.org/ | May 23 04:12 |
oiaohm | Wayland lot of Y developers have end up in it. | May 23 04:12 |
Just keep using Vista, FC, I'm sure that will keep you happy. ha ha | May 23 04:12 | |
DaemonFC | Y was GPL | May 23 04:13 |
DaemonFC | X isn't | May 23 04:13 |
the beauty of free software is that it just keeps getting better | May 23 04:13 | |
DaemonFC | that's another thing | May 23 04:13 |
DaemonFC | depends | May 23 04:13 |
DaemonFC | if you have assmonkeys that put it together backwards | May 23 04:13 |
DaemonFC | like Ubuntu | May 23 04:13 |
it's already better than commercial systems and the gap is growing. | May 23 04:13 | |
the_mad_hatter | Ubuntu beat Vista hands down. Even though there are some flaws. | May 23 04:14 |
DaemonFC | BAHAHAHAHA!!!! | May 23 04:14 |
the_mad_hatter | For example the use of Gnome. | May 23 04:14 |
lol | May 23 04:14 | |
DaemonFC | I had more trouble with Ubuntu screwing up gratuitously than Vista+XP | May 23 04:14 |
DaemonFC | put together | May 23 04:14 |
Gnome is not my favorite | May 23 04:14 | |
the_mad_hatter | I regard that as a flaw, due to the integration of Evolution into the desktop. | May 23 04:14 |
I hate to blame the user, FC, but ... | May 23 04:14 | |
DaemonFC | not my fault | May 23 04:15 |
the_mad_hatter | You'd think that the Gnome people work for Microsoft. | May 23 04:15 |
DaemonFC | I tried to fix it's deep rooted screw ups | May 23 04:15 |
Why don't you try a reasonable distro | May 23 04:15 | |
DaemonFC | I even tried to approach the developers | May 23 04:15 |
DaemonFC | but they are all primadonnas | May 23 04:15 |
DaemonFC | they won't be told that they did something bad | May 23 04:15 |
oiaohm | Wayland features are about allowing distribution merge. Y was designed to compete not merge in the competition. | May 23 04:15 |
oiaohm | So you need to run something that is a framebuffer applications with Wayland you can. | May 23 04:16 |
DaemonFC | I've already explained the Pulseaudio+ALSA+Intel HDA catastrophe more times than I care to | May 23 04:16 |
DaemonFC | with Ubuntu that is | May 23 04:16 |
Why not use a distro that does not use pulseaudio ? | May 23 04:17 | |
DaemonFC | because Pulseaudio is fine | May 23 04:17 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu is a bunch of assclowns | May 23 04:17 |
LOL | May 23 04:17 | |
It's fine or it's a catastrophe? | May 23 04:17 | |
DaemonFC | call me when the Jaunty Jerkoff | May 23 04:18 |
oiaohm | Pulseaudio is not file. | May 23 04:18 |
DaemonFC | is over | May 23 04:18 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 23 04:18 |
oiaohm | fine. | May 23 04:18 |
what is an assclown anyway? | May 23 04:18 | |
oiaohm | There are a lot of glitchs in Pulseaudio | May 23 04:18 |
Is it someone who makes donkeys laugh? | May 23 04:18 | |
DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdJSMUSZHMM&feature=related | May 23 04:19 |
oiaohm | Running multiable X11 servers side by side will allow distribution merges to happen. So changing landscape. | May 23 04:19 |
DaemonFC | typical reaction from an X11 user | May 23 04:20 |
I'm afraid to watch your video FC, you seem all upset about Ubuntu | May 23 04:20 | |
DaemonFC | :P | May 23 04:20 |
and you think about ass | May 23 04:20 | |
http://www.google.com/search?q=asclown&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 | May 23 04:20 | |
DaemonFC | A moron , someone of inferior intellect. A person who is obviously stupid. A knob-head. | May 23 04:21 |
DaemonFC | hmmm | May 23 04:21 |
DaemonFC | yeah | May 23 04:21 |
DaemonFC | I'll go with that | May 23 04:21 |
DaemonFC | When a person acts like an asshole AND a clown at the same time. | May 23 04:21 |
DaemonFC | that also works | May 23 04:21 |
oiaohm | The biggest trouble to running multiable distributions side by side on 1 kernel is the X11 server. | May 23 04:23 |
oiaohm | Audio is barely an annoyance. | May 23 04:23 |
X works for me. You guys are crazy. ;-) | May 23 04:29 | |
oh yeah, I forgot to mention M$FT was back under their $20 rock again. | May 23 04:31 | |
Ending the week at $19.75, let the slide begin for real. | May 23 04:32 | |
DaemonFC | I had money in them, I took it all out last year | May 23 04:33 |
DaemonFC | wasn't a lot | May 23 04:33 |
DaemonFC | I broke even | May 23 04:35 |
how's this for assclown http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE54K5XM20090521 | May 23 04:35 | |
? | May 23 04:36 | |
"Give my your money and I will still be the richest person in the US. No recession here," said Mr. Gates. | May 23 04:36 | |
"The software, IT revolution -- we're just at the start of that" Welcome to the 21st century! | May 23 04:37 | |
The rest of us have been here for a decade. | May 23 04:37 | |
Sharepoint turns users off after 180 days, ha ha | May 23 04:46 | |
http://www.crn.com/software/217600668 | May 23 04:46 | |
" Jeff Teper, corporate vice president of the Office SharePoint Server Group at Microsoft, said the problem stems from the product expiration date being improperly activated during the installation of SharePoint 2007 SP2. This causes SharePoint to function as a trial version and shut down after six months." | May 23 04:47 | |
the sooner the better for users | May 23 04:48 | |
oiaohm | Another group of user learning about the land mines of product activation. | May 23 04:50 |
*mib_1s1h29 (i=63970170@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3fd9bc576e78dc94) has joined #boycottnovell | May 23 04:51 | |
The lies told by non free software owners are amazing | May 23 04:52 | |
DaemonFC | so? | May 23 04:52 |
they depend on who they talk to | May 23 04:52 | |
DaemonFC | reenter your product key | May 23 04:52 |
DaemonFC | and it's back up | May 23 04:52 |
To end users, they talk about getting value out of "lazy programmers" | May 23 04:53 | |
To programmers, they talk about extracting money from "cheap users" | May 23 04:53 | |
to investors, they talk about squeezing both. | May 23 04:54 | |
which story is true? All are robbed. | May 23 04:54 | |
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DaemonFC | meh | May 23 04:54 |
oiaohm | Making the trial version and release version the same is trouble. | May 23 04:54 |
oiaohm | Lock outs happen from time to time with that combination. | May 23 04:55 |
thinking there's a difference between trial and release is trouble | May 23 04:55 | |
release is always the last trial, with a little bugfix | May 23 04:55 | |
oiaohm | Old style release version would not install without key. But once installed did not have a disactave. | May 23 04:56 |
old style versions required punch cards | May 23 04:56 | |
oiaohm | Windows 2000 was old style. | May 23 04:56 |
but the software was free | May 23 04:56 | |
non free software was a short blip, soon to be forgotten | May 23 04:57 | |
oiaohm | There will always be some non free software. | May 23 04:57 |
those who taste freedom never go back | May 23 04:57 | |
non free software almost always steals from public domain. | May 23 04:58 | |
free software extracts the value better | May 23 04:58 | |
and is sustainable | May 23 04:58 | |
oiaohm | Some non free exist in the free software world. | May 23 04:59 |
it won't forever | May 23 04:59 | |
oiaohm | Its the stuff that is closed source until enough payed to cover development. | May 23 04:59 |
oiaohm | There is a place for closed source in the open source world. | May 23 05:00 |
free software is "paid for" in a number of ways, but it's always cheaper than the alternatives | May 23 05:00 | |
oiaohm | These are normally customisations on particular projects. | May 23 05:00 |
there will always be fraud | May 23 05:00 | |
that does not justify the practice | May 23 05:00 | |
oiaohm | Personally I belevice there should be a requirement to release source code when products are discounued in the closed source world. | May 23 05:01 |
oiaohm | Closed source bound to maintaining it. | May 23 05:02 |
DaemonFC | yeah, there's good software abandoned with no company left that even owns it | May 23 05:04 |
DaemonFC | such a waste | May 23 05:04 |
oiaohm | I have no problem with closed source if it is maintained. Open source skipping out on maintaining by contract I have no problem with since you are free to pay your own people to maintain it. | May 23 05:05 |
oiaohm | MS EULA all skip out on taking responsablity to mainatain. | May 23 05:06 |
The point of non free software is to extract things from the user by force. | May 23 05:06 | |
non free software owners will never release their wasted software | May 23 05:06 | |
oiaohm | Not all. | May 23 05:07 |
If they do, it's because they have become free software companies | May 23 05:07 | |
oiaohm | ID engines are normal closed soruce for a while then latter released open source. | May 23 05:07 |
oiaohm | Some companies have what I call fair policies but its rare. | May 23 05:08 |
that pretty much makes them a free software company | May 23 05:08 | |
oiaohm | ID is more a media and engine seller. | May 23 05:08 |
oiaohm | They don't take care of the source code they release in most cases. | May 23 05:08 |
They develop for windows, it is a waste | May 23 05:09 | |
oiaohm | Its basically we are finshed with this now you can do what you want with it. | May 23 05:09 |
and people do | May 23 05:09 | |
oiaohm | Closed source ID's way I have no problem with. | May 23 05:09 |
oiaohm | People don't end up stuck. | May 23 05:09 |
oiaohm | So they want to recovery development costs by selling closed source for a while. I am fine with that. | May 23 05:10 |
DaemonFC | ID is cross platform | May 23 05:10 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 23 05:10 |
oiaohm | There is a point of blance between closed and open source that is truly good for everyone. | May 23 05:11 |
oiaohm | Problem is lot of closed source companies don't respect the blance. | May 23 05:12 |
Geek.com pans windows in favor of GNU/Linux http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/opinion-microsofts-out-linux-is-in-ubuntu-904-i-hear-your-call-20090522/ | May 23 05:12 | |
" Linux is a much lighter operating system than Windows. When it boots up, there is more free memory, it uses less disk space for installation, and its applications are also smaller. It also doesn’t use the same kind of registry as Windows — something in my opinion is the worst design ever for software management, and something that slow down all of our PCs immeasurably, requiring install/uninstall operations to move software fro | May 23 05:13 | |
basically the stuff everyone has noticed. | May 23 05:13 | |
oiaohm | Its what makes you and me different twitter. I don't see closed source as pure evil. I see the idea of keeping source code secret forever evil. | May 23 05:13 |
oiaohm | Since major design flaws and the like never have to be admited to. | May 23 05:14 |
I think about freedom, you think about utility. | May 23 05:14 | |
oiaohm | I more think about getting what is required best way possiable. | May 23 05:15 |
Greed for utility leads to the failed path of non free software. | May 23 05:15 | |
Freedom leads to utility. | May 23 05:15 | |
oiaohm | ID uses closed source like a tole bridge. | May 23 05:15 |
oiaohm | Once enough money is made no need to keep the tole. | May 23 05:15 |
Their model is still a free software one. | May 23 05:15 | |
It's obtuse and arcane but it is eventually free. | May 23 05:16 | |
oiaohm | While its in it closed source state it does not give you freedoms. | May 23 05:16 |
" The significance of closed-source efforts, like Windows, Internet Explorer, Windows Media Player, .NET, ASP, and pretty much everything else Microsoft is involved with, are not playing out. It was recently reported by Dell that Windows 7 will cost more than Vista. How is that helping businesses and consumers? The answer is obvious: It’s not." | May 23 05:17 | |
oiaohm | I have no problems with loss of freedom of the source code short term. The damaging is like MS how many of there produces that have died do we have the source code to. | May 23 05:17 |
The problem is M$'s intentions. | May 23 05:17 | |
They restrict to rape. | May 23 05:17 | |
oiaohm | How many companies have been destoryed by businesses making software shutting up shop too. | May 23 05:17 |
oiaohm | No source code they die. | May 23 05:18 |
DaemonFC | the last version of Windows that's well understood is 3.1 | May 23 05:18 |
" I use a Verizon Wireless PCMCIA broadband card for mobile Internet access. I had been fearful in switching over to Ubuntu Linux on my notebook because I need that card to function. .... I see a better network response in Linux than I do in Vista with Verizon’s dedicated VZAccess Manager software." | May 23 05:18 | |
ha ha | May 23 05:18 | |
oiaohm | Closed source is a tool need to aquire funding for some kinds of development. Used right its good. Abused its evil. | May 23 05:19 |
It is expensive and wasteful to keep secrets. | May 23 05:19 | |
Keeping secrets to extract control or money is wrong. | May 23 05:19 | |
oiaohm | Not every user is a developer. | May 23 05:19 |
they don't have to be | May 23 05:20 | |
oiaohm | closed source does allow id to sell the engine to other companies. | May 23 05:20 |
oiaohm | To recover its costs. | May 23 05:20 |
they could probably turn to other models | May 23 05:20 | |
They all have enough money to retire anyway | May 23 05:20 | |
DaemonFC | yeah, when everything is free and nobody can make a living | May 23 05:21 |
DaemonFC | we'll all go live in a commune | May 23 05:21 |
DaemonFC | right? | May 23 05:21 |
wrong | May 23 05:21 | |
oiaohm | Lot of fully open source have failed that way. | May 23 05:21 |
oiaohm | Gamers don't pay for support on there games. | May 23 05:21 |
DaemonFC | no, everyone should work for free | May 23 05:21 |
DaemonFC | asking to be paid is evil | May 23 05:21 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 23 05:21 |
lots of non free companies and restaruants have also failed. | May 23 05:22 | |
DaemonFC | so? | May 23 05:22 |
DaemonFC | they lost in the market | May 23 05:22 |
DaemonFC | that's how things work' | May 23 05:22 |
oiaohm | Particular markets require particular treatments. | May 23 05:22 |
so, Ohm was talking about free software companies failing. so what | May 23 05:22 | |
oiaohm | There are some markets where closed source have no place. | May 23 05:22 |
like all of them | May 23 05:23 | |
oiaohm | Its not all of them. | May 23 05:23 |
name one market where the user would not be better off with free software | May 23 05:23 | |
the_mad_hatter | yeah, name one. | May 23 05:24 |
the_mad_hatter | Voting Machines? | May 23 05:24 |
the_mad_hatter | Desktop Computers? | May 23 05:24 |
oiaohm | twitter: look at the areas in open source were we have poor development. | May 23 05:24 |
the_mad_hatter | Missile Control systems? | May 23 05:24 |
I don't think he has one. | May 23 05:25 | |
oiaohm | Most of those do well with some closed source. | May 23 05:25 |
oiaohm | Games are a major. | May 23 05:25 |
the_mad_hatter | Airplane control computers? | May 23 05:25 |
the_mad_hatter | Why are games a major? | May 23 05:25 |
I think he tried to say game users are better off without freedom. | May 23 05:25 | |
lol | May 23 05:25 | |
oiaohm | There is also software customisations done with closed source. | May 23 05:25 |
the_mad_hatter | Yes, he wants to screw gamers | May 23 05:25 |
oiaohm | Games takes a lot of resourses to develop the engine. | May 23 05:26 |
the_mad_hatter | Hold on - you haven't explained why gamers are better off closed source. | May 23 05:26 |
oiaohm | Without that funded it will not happen. | May 23 05:26 |
My wife thought of a mod to Wii the other day. She realized instantly that she would never see that mod because Wii is not free software. | May 23 05:26 | |
the_mad_hatter | It takes a lot of resources to produce an operating system. Without funding, it won't happen. | May 23 05:26 |
the_mad_hatter | correct? | May 23 05:27 |
oiaohm | Linux got its funding from hardware makers. | May 23 05:27 |
There are plenty of free software games - the problem is M$ control of hardware makers and denial of 3d acceleration | May 23 05:27 | |
oiaohm | Particular markets its hard to get the funding streams. | May 23 05:27 |
the_mad_hatter | So you are suggesting that ATI and Nividia should fund games. | May 23 05:27 |
GNU/Linux got funding from everyowhere. | May 23 05:27 | |
the_mad_hatter | Sounds reasonable. | May 23 05:27 |
ATI and Nividia have funded games, just non free ones | May 23 05:28 | |
oiaohm | Problem is ATI and Nvidia really don't much enough money to fund a large set of games. | May 23 05:28 |
ultimately M$ benefits more than they did | May 23 05:28 | |
oiaohm | Hardware support can only go so far. | May 23 05:28 |
the_mad_hatter | There's more games available for Linux than there is for Windows. | May 23 05:28 |
With hardware support out of the way, free software games are just as good as any | May 23 05:28 | |
the_mad_hatter | So why, if you are correct, is this so? | May 23 05:29 |
oiaohm | Games using latest tech the_mad_hatter. | May 23 05:29 |
The best games, like those ID makes, are best because they take a lot of user input - artwork, storylines etc | May 23 05:29 | |
oiaohm | ID even when there engine is closed source they still allow mods. | May 23 05:29 |
the_mad_hatter | Why are the new free software games showing equivalent graphics to the closed source games? | May 23 05:29 |
So, software freedom makes games better | May 23 05:30 | |
the_mad_hatter | How will the closed source game makers compete, with free games that are just as good? | May 23 05:30 |
the_mad_hatter | Let's face it. Most of them are fucked. | May 23 05:30 |
oiaohm | Story graphics engine. | May 23 05:30 |
the_mad_hatter | ID will do fine. Blizzard will do fine. Most of the rest are dead, they just don't know it yet. | May 23 05:31 |
others will emerge to provide services, places to play, etc | May 23 05:31 | |
the_mad_hatter | And the reason ID and Blizzard will do well, is they've developed their communities. | May 23 05:31 |
the_mad_hatter | Do any of you know Gary Martin? | May 23 05:31 |
*ReverseGTR (n=ReverseG@ool-45732edc.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #boycottnovell | May 23 05:32 | |
oiaohm | ID has never been that abusive to there end users. | May 23 05:32 |
oiaohm | Blizzard has a up and down history. | May 23 05:32 |
the_mad_hatter | No, and that's why ID does well. Blizzard has their faults, but compared to most of the others they look great. | May 23 05:32 |
ReverseGTR | oiaohm, ID just verbally abuses their users for choosing certain hardware :P | May 23 05:33 |
the_mad_hatter | Anyway, do any of you know Gary? | May 23 05:33 |
silence = no | May 23 05:34 | |
the_mad_hatter | OK, Gary wrote a BBS based game called Trade Wars 2002 in the early 90s | May 23 05:34 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, I think I rented that game once, but I got bored quick with it | May 23 05:35 |
the_mad_hatter | It was inexpensive ($15.00) when most BBS games went for $100.00, so it got popular fast. | May 23 05:35 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, I was more into shooters back then | May 23 05:35 |
the_mad_hatter | A bunch of people, me included, got interested in what could be done with it. | May 23 05:35 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Martin_(programmer) | May 23 05:35 | |
the_mad_hatter | With Gary's blessings, we created a huge number of add-ons. The most insane of which was mine. | May 23 05:36 |
the_mad_hatter | By some clever hacking, I managed to "expand" the game from 1000 sectors to 20000 sectors. | May 23 05:36 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, sounds like the kind of game Master of Orion, Battle for Alpha Centauri and even Planet Side was inspired by | May 23 05:36 |
the_mad_hatter | Probably. Anyway, because there were so many addons, trade wars became more popular. | May 23 05:37 |
oiaohm | Lot of game companies make that mistake. | May 23 05:37 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, also Deadlock | May 23 05:37 |
oiaohm | Addons extend the live of the game. | May 23 05:37 |
the_mad_hatter | All because Gary was willing to let us play. The same thing was tried with another game, but it stopped fast when the author threatened to sue. | May 23 05:38 |
oiaohm | ID worked that out early on. | May 23 05:38 |
ReverseGTR | oiaohm, thats how Tribes became a franchise | May 23 05:38 |
ReverseGTR | oiaohm, and a bad example being The Sims | May 23 05:38 |
oiaohm: Addons extend the live of the game. <- value to user is bad for Ohm | May 23 05:38 | |
oiaohm | Sims still sells well. | May 23 05:38 |
the_mad_hatter | Anyway, Open works. Closed, well it's great if you are talking a bank vault, useless for anything else. | May 23 05:38 |
DaemonFC | ewwww | May 23 05:38 |
DaemonFC | Will Wright | May 23 05:38 |
ReverseGTR | oiaohm, it only sells well amongst a smaller hardcore following though, at least to me | May 23 05:38 |
DaemonFC | anything he makes sucks | May 23 05:39 |
go back to sleep FC | May 23 05:39 | |
ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, if you have a problem with the DRM in Spore, take it up with EA | May 23 05:39 |
DaemonFC | Spore is only pirated out of protest | May 23 05:39 |
DaemonFC | the game sucks | May 23 05:39 |
ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, still waiting on Duke Nukem Forever eh | May 23 05:39 |
DaemonFC | nah, it's easier to crack my way around it | May 23 05:39 |
the_mad_hatter | And this is why the Free Software/GPL gaming revolution is taking off. People want to be part of the game, not just a "consumer" | May 23 05:39 |
oiaohm | Mixture between closed and open has made some great companies. | May 23 05:39 |
DaemonFC | never was | May 23 05:39 |
DaemonFC | all two games? | May 23 05:40 |
the_mad_hatter | It's why Wikipedia killed Encarta. | May 23 05:40 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, the one cool thing about Spore is it brought the potential of easy to use 3D custom shape making tools out to the forefront for gaming | May 23 05:40 |
DaemonFC | there's more notable commercial games in any given month than in open source in the last 10 years | May 23 05:40 |
the_mad_hatter | It's why the Internet killed AOL/Genie | May 23 05:40 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, Little Big Planet is also taking a closed approach to the custom craze | May 23 05:40 |
oiaohm | Encarta was not that great in the first place. | May 23 05:41 |
DaemonFC | no | May 23 05:41 |
DaemonFC | the internet won out cause all the proprietary networks were smaller and incompatible | May 23 05:41 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 23 05:41 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, Ask Jeeves and Websters Online were bigger | May 23 05:41 |
DaemonFC | rare case of the open standard winning | May 23 05:41 |
the_mad_hatter | In that case you haven't looked at the Free Software games available. | May 23 05:41 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, most people used Encarta becaus at one point most people used MSN | May 23 05:42 |
oiaohm | Biggest issue in Free Software games is model quality and other finishing work. | May 23 05:42 |
the_mad_hatter | The Open Standard will always win, if it's use is not blocked. | May 23 05:42 |
the_mad_hatter | oiaohm - so go volunteer. | May 23 05:43 |
I never used MSN and you would be hard pressed to prove "most" people did | May 23 05:43 | |
the_mad_hatter | It's how Free Software gets better. | May 23 05:43 |
the_mad_hatter | MSN = JUNK | May 23 05:43 |
That would be like saying "most people" used AOL. | May 23 05:43 | |
ReverseGTR | twitter, it happened after most got disenfranchised with AOHell | May 23 05:43 |
ReverseGTR | twitter, what else gave them the brite idea for MSN TV? | May 23 05:43 |
the_mad_hatter | People prefer open. The most widely used video file format is AVI | May 23 05:44 |
at best, you are talking about a majority of a minority | May 23 05:44 | |
the_mad_hatter | The most widely used music file format is MP3 | May 23 05:44 |
DaemonFC | I used AOL for years but never paid anything for it | May 23 05:44 |
soon the most used format will be ogg | May 23 05:44 | |
DaemonFC | so that was really the only reason | May 23 05:44 |
oiaohm | the_mad_hatter: volunteer is not the solution here. People still need to eat. The finishing work to take a model from ok to great is huge numbers of hours per model. | May 23 05:44 |
people always need to eat | May 23 05:44 | |
ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, you just went from trial disc to trial disc? | May 23 05:44 |
that does not keep them from sharing when they can | May 23 05:45 | |
the_mad_hatter | WMV and WMA were big failures for Microsloth. Yes, I agree, Ogg is the next big thing. | May 23 05:45 |
DaemonFC | I used various tricks to keep making fake accounts | May 23 05:45 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 23 05:45 |
the_mad_hatter | oiaohm - I'm not stopping you from eating. Go ahead. | May 23 05:45 |
DaemonFC | and to turn off the billing counter | May 23 05:45 |
everyone has to earn a living, no one has to do it by mugging people or writing non free software | May 23 05:45 | |
oiaohm | If todo that work for nothing will mean they will stave they cannot do it twitter. | May 23 05:45 |
oiaohm | Funding has to be aquired some how. | May 23 05:46 |
DaemonFC | AOL had areas that would stop the counter, like if you were on their billing page | May 23 05:46 |
the_mad_hatter | oiaohm - of course they can. And make money while doing it. Ask Red Hat, they are doing fine. | May 23 05:46 |
DaemonFC | so I had a utility that would open the billing page then minimize it | May 23 05:46 |
DaemonFC | so the counter would stay frozen | May 23 05:46 |
RMS earned a living writing free software. | May 23 05:46 | |
oiaohm | People who say no closed source never put up solutions in all market areas. | May 23 05:46 |
I don't know why you think you can't be paid to write free software. | May 23 05:46 | |
oiaohm | twitter: some areas it is just really hard pure open source to get funding. | May 23 05:47 |
Ohm, you just go around in circles | May 23 05:47 | |
ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, interesting and pretty bad job by their programmers, unless they were in on it | May 23 05:47 |
the_mad_hatter | I know several people making a living from free software. Of course I also know several poor bastards working for Microsoft.... | May 23 05:47 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, do they live in India? | May 23 05:47 |
the_mad_hatter | oiaohm - really? In that case you aren't doing it right. | May 23 05:47 |
Free software is a tremendous success, no one starved writing it and it will soon replace all non free software. | May 23 05:47 | |
the_mad_hatter | No, USA and Canada. | May 23 05:48 |
the_mad_hatter | Only people I know in India, work at a forklift manufacturing plant. | May 23 05:48 |
oiaohm | The projects that develop the best have funding twitter. | May 23 05:48 |
oiaohm | From one area or another. | May 23 05:48 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, oh Canada eh, must be quite a commute for them | May 23 05:48 |
DaemonFC | at this rate, it should only take linux about 3,000 years | May 23 05:48 |
the_mad_hatter | heh. it's all online. | May 23 05:48 |
the_mad_hatter | oiaohm - define "funding" | May 23 05:49 |
ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, all open source genre games will be done with variations of the Quake and Half Life engine :P | May 23 05:49 |
So, ohm, if the "best" free software has funding, how does free software starve programmers? | May 23 05:49 | |
you can't have it both ways | May 23 05:49 | |
but I can say that software freedom does not depend on big dumb company funding. | May 23 05:49 | |
it is a matter of community | May 23 05:50 | |
and manifest economic advantages | May 23 05:50 | |
oiaohm | Companies or people being paid to maintain it threw different ways. This includes sales of support donations and other means. Full time developers are required to do particular tasks. | May 23 05:50 |
oiaohm | twitter: fund is not level accross the open source world. | May 23 05:51 |
No, full time work is not required | May 23 05:51 | |
the_mad_hatter | oiaohm - why companies? | May 23 05:51 |
all that is required is a job to be done and freely available tools, | May 23 05:51 | |
the_mad_hatter | oiaohm - why not individuals? | May 23 05:51 |
oiaohm | For maintainer ship of complex projects it becomes important twitter. | May 23 05:51 |
Like GNU? | May 23 05:52 | |
the_mad_hatter | oiaohm - complex products like Wikipedia? | May 23 05:52 |
ha ha | May 23 05:52 | |
oiaohm | Wikipedia has a full time lead. | May 23 05:52 |
Only a big dumb company could ever make an encyclopedia, right? | May 23 05:52 | |
Gotta be organized, buy things. | May 23 05:53 | |
fire people you don't like | May 23 05:53 | |
oiaohm | GNU is has many examples where lack of full time maintainer ship has lead to patches being merge that should never been merged. | May 23 05:53 |
extract money from your users | May 23 05:53 | |
oiaohm | Years latter those patches turn into nightmares. | May 23 05:53 |
And Vista is an example of something that should never have emerged | May 23 05:53 | |
you have to take the beam out of your non free eyes | May 23 05:54 | |
oiaohm | Vista is an example what happens when you realy don't have a mainatian. | May 23 05:54 |
yes it is | May 23 05:54 | |
oiaohm | Instead split it up into 1000 different deparments | May 23 05:54 |
no company can maintain what the free software world does | May 23 05:54 | |
oiaohm | and hope the bits glue teother and work. | May 23 05:54 |
M$ can't keep up it's core OS. | May 23 05:54 | |
oiaohm | Of course the odd of that working. | May 23 05:55 |
oiaohm | Not very high. | May 23 05:55 |
It does not matter how you divide the effort, Ohm, non free software can't afford the kind of attention free software collects naturally | May 23 05:56 | |
oiaohm | twitter: large sections of freesoftware is not well maintained. | May 23 05:56 |
the_mad_hatter | What's the difference between Apple ans Microsoft? | May 23 05:56 |
Nothing in the non free software world is well maintained by those standards | May 23 05:56 | |
oiaohm | Apple quality control standards they follow. | May 23 05:57 |
oiaohm | Apple is unlikely ever to create a vista event. | May 23 05:57 |
Apple does not suck as much because they take more from the free software world and are not as greedy | May 23 05:57 | |
oiaohm | The head of company was a programmer. | May 23 05:57 |
oiaohm | So he knew when someone was bull shitting. Gates works on bluff to work it out. | May 23 05:57 |
Bill Gates was something of a programmer - he took code out of a dumpster once. | May 23 05:57 | |
pure shit has flowed since | May 23 05:58 | |
the_mad_hatter | Nope. Difference is Apple designs things people want to buy. | May 23 05:58 |
the_mad_hatter | Microsoft depends on monopoly. | May 23 05:58 |
people want to buy due to market warping | May 23 05:58 | |
oiaohm | You can design things people wnat to buy but if you quality control is not good. | May 23 05:58 |
oiaohm | They will go else where. | May 23 05:58 |
the_mad_hatter | oiaohm - no you can't. | May 23 05:58 |
oiaohm | they do. | May 23 05:59 |
the_mad_hatter | Because if QC is bad, they don't want to buy. | May 23 05:59 |
the_mad_hatter | Think Firestone. | May 23 05:59 |
tomsdale | If Apple had >90% market share I think they would try to corner the market as well. | May 23 06:00 |
the_mad_hatter | No one would buy their tires after the big QC fuckup, just about destroyed the company. | May 23 06:00 |
tomsdale | they have shareholders to please in the first line. | May 23 06:00 |
the_mad_hatter | tomsdale - and how did Microsoft get 90%? By cheating. | May 23 06:00 |
damage control from Ball State and The New Register http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/21/ball_state_retracts/ | May 23 06:00 | |
blamed the user | May 23 06:00 | |
ha ha | May 23 06:00 | |
oiaohm | People still wanted tires in designs simpler tot heres with quality control the_mad_hatter. | May 23 06:01 |
the_mad_hatter | oiaohm - you say people want to buy shit? | May 23 06:01 |
oiaohm | So yes can design something people want. But if you screw the quality control in a compettive market they will buy the next closet instead that has quality control. | May 23 06:02 |
Netcraft joins the damage control party too, http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2009/05/20/most_iis_sites_unlikely_to_be_affected_by_webdav_vulnerability.html | May 23 06:02 | |
shame | May 23 06:02 | |
Ohm thinks it's OK to extract money for shit | May 23 06:02 | |
DaemonFC | they got to 90% cause people bought Windows | May 23 06:02 |
the_mad_hatter | oiaohm doesn't work in manufacturing, that's for sure. | May 23 06:02 |
no choice, FC | May 23 06:02 | |
DaemonFC | and they bought Windows cause they thought it was worth money | May 23 06:02 |
DaemonFC | that's how an economy works | May 23 06:03 |
monopoly, FC | May 23 06:03 | |
DaemonFC | wrong | May 23 06:03 |
DaemonFC | Apple is more of a monopoly than Microsoft is | May 23 06:03 |
you need to read more of M$'s email | May 23 06:03 | |
DaemonFC | you don't have to buy Windows with a PC | May 23 06:03 |
tomsdale | DaemonFC: once upon a time they had the better marketing and were the new upcoming thing so everyone bought it although OS2 warp was superiour | May 23 06:03 |
the_mad_hatter | daemonfc - no, people got Windows because OEMs installed it as a differentiating factor | May 23 06:04 |
you pay no matter once, FC | May 23 06:04 | |
oiaohm | the_mad_hatter the funny part I do. I have seen cases where design is perfect. Quality quality crap. remake the product same design quality controlled different brand profit. | May 23 06:04 |
oiaohm | So it was not that people did not want the item. | May 23 06:04 |
oiaohm | By its design. | May 23 06:04 |
DaemonFC | people bought their way to this point | May 23 06:04 |
DaemonFC | quite willingly | May 23 06:04 |
the_mad_hatter | You know under ISO 9000 you could make a boat out of concrete, and it would pass QC? | May 23 06:04 |
DaemonFC | maybe it's more convenient to buy Windows but you don't *have* to | May 23 06:04 |
Did you see what M$ did to stamp out GNU/Linux at Walmart? | May 23 06:04 | |
oiaohm | you need two factors to sell a item. | May 23 06:05 |
DaemonFC | they didn't do anything | May 23 06:05 |
oiaohm | Good quality control. | May 23 06:05 |
M$ makes sure Winblows is always the cheapest option | May 23 06:05 | |
DaemonFC | Linspire sucked | May 23 06:05 |
oiaohm | and good design. | May 23 06:05 |
DaemonFC | majorly | May 23 06:05 |
oiaohm | good quality control you never damage your brand. | May 23 06:05 |
the_mad_hatter | oiaohm - QC is part of design. | May 23 06:05 |
oiaohm | So people will always look at your designs. | May 23 06:05 |
DaemonFC | it's a good thing Linux got kicked off the shelf at Walmart, because they used Linspire and other crap distros | May 23 06:05 |
the_mad_hatter | brand is an oxymoron, invented by those who don't want to waste money on QC | May 23 06:05 |
DaemonFC | and Linux is never the selling point of a PC | May 23 06:06 |
DaemonFC | they only ever put it on cheap PCs | May 23 06:06 |
the_mad_hatter | And thus on proper design. | May 23 06:06 |
DaemonFC | cheap PCs with minimal specs for rock bottom price | May 23 06:06 |
oiaohm | QC is not always part of the designs. One case company was going under because they were skipping quality control checking on end of production line. | May 23 06:06 |
oiaohm | What does that have to do with the design. | May 23 06:06 |
oiaohm | Manager was saving a few dollars to end up lossing massive numbers of customers. | May 23 06:07 |
the_mad_hatter | If QC isn't part of the design, the company will lose sales. Think of it as Evolution in Action. | May 23 06:07 |
DaemonFC | my point is, no wonder people say Linux sucks when you hand them some rinky dink little no name distro that sucks | May 23 06:07 |
DaemonFC | on a sub-par PC | May 23 06:07 |
tomsdale | The average user can't enjoy the freedom I do on Linux because linux is too difficult for them. | May 23 06:07 |
the_mad_hatter | Chapter 11 through that door. | May 23 06:07 |
oiaohm | QC has to be enforced. | May 23 06:07 |
oiaohm | You can design it in but if it not done. Your quality control still will suck. | May 23 06:08 |
the_mad_hatter | QC has to be part of design. If it isn't, you're fucked. | May 23 06:08 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu is difficult because in striving to make it simple they long surpassed the point at which it was useful to me | May 23 06:08 |
oiaohm | If its part of the design and its not done you are still fucked the_mad_hatter | May 23 06:08 |
the_mad_hatter | you really don't get it do you? You aren't an engineer. | May 23 06:08 |
oiaohm | engineers design it in. | May 23 06:09 |
tomsdale | oiaohm: I think that goes in line with the new proposed law to hold developers responsible ... help me out there - was in the news recentlyh | May 23 06:09 |
ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, you probably just don't like it because they are trying to give it a mainstream finish all the while it relies on cutting edge libraries for their latest builds which are usually buggy | May 23 06:09 |
DaemonFC | they really need to think past the Windows 95-style dsktop metaphor and move on to expand hardware support or something | May 23 06:09 |
oiaohm | But its management who have to make sure it done. | May 23 06:09 |
the_mad_hatter | Actually they don't. That's why they take their orders from me. | May 23 06:09 |
ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, its usually good to stay a distro behind if you want something reliable | May 23 06:09 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu is not cutting edge | May 23 06:09 |
DaemonFC | it's merely buggy | May 23 06:09 |
ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, well because it uses different libraries and commands then other distros | May 23 06:09 |
DaemonFC | their LTS releases are just as bad if not worse | May 23 06:10 |
ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, or I mean how they are phrased and arranged | May 23 06:10 |
DaemonFC | and they don't know how to fix any of the bugs | May 23 06:10 |
DaemonFC | they rely 100% on upstream to fix them | May 23 06:10 |
tomsdale | still ubuntu seems to get the marketing right - I heard from people instlaling ubuntu because they just heard it was cool. | May 23 06:10 |
DaemonFC | most of the time | May 23 06:10 |
oiaohm | the_mad_hatter: design is half the problem. management to make sure the right things happen is the other half. | May 23 06:10 |
the_mad_hatter | Management? You've got to be fucking kidding. | May 23 06:10 |
DaemonFC | so they have no authority on their own distro | May 23 06:10 |
Ha ha, another interview from the Ex MicroSerf now GNU/Linux user http://www.cio.com/article/493224/Ex_Microsoftie_Free_Software_Will_Kill_Redmond?page=3 | May 23 06:10 | |
tomsdale | is that the new book? | May 23 06:10 |
the_mad_hatter | Managment exists to pay rent, and cut paychecks. | May 23 06:11 |
tomsdale | such a heartly change fo heart. | May 23 06:11 |
the_mad_hatter | Not do QC. | May 23 06:11 |
oiaohm | the_mad_hatter: management are the major cause of QC failures. | May 23 06:11 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu is as condescending as the Mac, as error-prone as Windows XP, and has the software support of Linux | May 23 06:11 |
->Other than adopting Linux, there is little Microsoft can do. Even if they did embrace it, not only would it hurt their profit margins, they'd be forced to explain to customers why they should continue to pay for Office if the company believes the free OpenOffice is good enough. | May 23 06:11 | |
oiaohm | the_mad_hatter: lets cut a few cents here. | May 23 06:11 |
the_mad_hatter | oiaohm - senior management wouldn't know QC if it bit them on the ass. | May 23 06:11 |
DaemonFC | it truly bridges the divide :P | May 23 06:11 |
this from a man who worked for M$ more than 11 years | May 23 06:11 | |
oiaohm | the_mad_hatter: It depends on the company. | May 23 06:12 |
the_mad_hatter | oiaohm - it does depend on the company. | May 23 06:12 |
OS News covers the interview with less annoyance http://www.osnews.com/story/21543/Ex-Microsoft_Employee_Free_Software_Will_Kill_Microsoft | May 23 06:12 | |
the_mad_hatter | oiaohm - the ones that work, use a troika setup | May 23 06:12 |
oiaohm | It truely does depend on the the company. | May 23 06:12 |
ReverseGTR | twitter, its sort of funny how they say open source puts giant software developers to shame because some of the largest open source projects are monsterous | May 23 06:12 |
the_mad_hatter | Engineering - Production - Sales&Marketing | May 23 06:13 |
DaemonFC | "the latest is called CodePlex. While it shows that Microsoft understands the benefits of free software, this site mostly contains tiny add-ons to proprietary Microsoft products" | May 23 06:13 |
DaemonFC | I was saying that | May 23 06:13 |
DaemonFC | the other day | May 23 06:13 |
the_mad_hatter | Management acts as referees, to keep blood baths to a minimum | May 23 06:13 |
so, FC, it shows they don't grasp freedom at all | May 23 06:13 | |
the_mad_hatter | Any other system of operating a company, will fail, | May 23 06:14 |
the_mad_hatter | Look at Microsoft as an example, they are on the way down now. | May 23 06:14 |
the_mad_hatter | Will Obama decide they are too big to fail? Stay tuned, news at 11. | May 23 06:15 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, of course considering over 90% of computers in the government run some form of Windows, Kerplah! | May 23 06:15 |
DaemonFC | http://www.cio.com/article/493224/Ex_Microsoftie_Free_Software_Will_Kill_Redmond?page=1 | May 23 06:16 |
DaemonFC | it went to the wrong page btw | May 23 06:16 |
DaemonFC | I don't think Microsoft will be bailed out | May 23 06:16 |
DaemonFC | they're nowhere near going under | May 23 06:16 |
DaemonFC | they're just now shedding divisions they never should have bought or started to begin with | May 23 06:17 |
the_mad_hatter | reversegtr - actually what I expect Obama to do, is to try and transfer the GNU copyrights to Redmond, and the ensuing lawsuit going all the way to SCOTUS. | May 23 06:17 |
ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, you're right, M$ definitely has less expenses on their balance sheet than any automotive company | May 23 06:17 |
the_mad_hatter | reversegtr - but they cook the books. | May 23 06:17 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, but they don't have to worry about a large unioned labor force either | May 23 06:18 |
tomsdale | The GPL stands diametrical to established rules in society and business. It's a strange but fascinating. | May 23 06:18 |
DaemonFC | they're not operating at a loss | May 23 06:18 |
DaemonFC | not even close | May 23 06:18 |
the_mad_hatter | reversegtr - Roy has links to several sites which try to untangle Microsoft accounting practises. I've read a lot of this stuff, and if it's half as accurate as I think it is, there is going to be a huge fucking boom. | May 23 06:18 |
ReverseGTR | tomsdale, its there to secure programmer's works like copyright was supposed to for artists | May 23 06:18 |
DaemonFC | I would have cut those divisions years ago | May 23 06:19 |
the_mad_hatter | GPL is not diametrically opposed, it's part of the establishment. | May 23 06:19 |
oiaohm | DaemonFC: netbooks not even trying to go head to head with MS main market causes reduced proft. | May 23 06:19 |
DaemonFC | it shows they have incompetent management that waits too long to prune the bad limbs | May 23 06:19 |
DaemonFC | but lots of companies have that | May 23 06:19 |
the_mad_hatter | That's one of the biggest fallacies on the Net these days. | May 23 06:19 |
DaemonFC | netbooks are a novelty | May 23 06:19 |
oiaohm | IBM ORCALE and others will have to start looking lower down the tree to keep growning incomes. | May 23 06:20 |
DaemonFC | netbooks are not a promary computer | May 23 06:20 |
DaemonFC | your primary system will be a Mac or Windows most likely | May 23 06:20 |
DaemonFC | so who cares if they put some gimped copy of Linux on it? | May 23 06:20 |
the_mad_hatter | Netbooks are going to take over a chunk of the market. A big chunk. To me, that means they aren't a novelty. | May 23 06:20 |
DaemonFC | and who the hell has ever heard on Linpus? | May 23 06:20 |
oiaohm | Ok who in a business knows what the business server runs in most cases DaemonFC | May 23 06:21 |
tomsdale | ReverseGTR: yes - it generally bypasses marketing and management - the two things Linux is not very good at. Too much choice - too much underground. | May 23 06:21 |
DaemonFC | they usually put Linux on it not as a feature, but so they can make it cheap | May 23 06:21 |
oiaohm | That is a big section of MS income. | May 23 06:21 |
the_mad_hatter | daemonfc - sounds like some sort of venereal disease, doesn't it? | May 23 06:21 |
DaemonFC | yes it does | May 23 06:21 |
oiaohm | Small businesses in particular. | May 23 06:21 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, netbooks are a fashion statement, they are small really low speced subnotebooks with a special name to give an illusion of exclusivity | May 23 06:21 |
oiaohm | That IBM and other big makers have left alone. | May 23 06:21 |
DaemonFC | "Oh my god it burns, I think it's Linpus, I need to go to the doctor. That bitch!" | May 23 06:21 |
DaemonFC | Linpus!!! | May 23 06:21 |
oiaohm | You will not know it as Linux | May 23 06:22 |
DaemonFC | that sounds like something I'd want to use :P | May 23 06:22 |
tomsdale | IMO Macs are a fashion statement - this is why people are counterfeing it -> Hackingtosh. | May 23 06:22 |
the_mad_hatter | reversegtr - check Dell Mini-Inspiron 12 - netbook. $350.00 with 160 gig HD, 1 gig of ram. Ubuntu. | May 23 06:22 |
oiaohm | IBM calls it smart cube DaemonFC | May 23 06:22 |
tomsdale | I don't think they do that primarily because Mac OSX is the superior OS. | May 23 06:22 |
DaemonFC | the Hackintosh is not something you could sell like that | May 23 06:22 |
DaemonFC | I mean the first time someone uses Apple Updates, their system is nuked | May 23 06:22 |
the_mad_hatter | I don't consider Macs a fashion statement. If you want good hardware, buy a Mac. If you want shit hardware, buy Acer, Dell, Lenovo, etc. | May 23 06:23 |
tomsdale | Mac'S are a fashion item or you work in an industry where they are the ultimate solution for your needs | May 23 06:23 |
the_mad_hatter | Mac's are worth every penny. | May 23 06:23 |
the_mad_hatter | which is why I own three. | May 23 06:23 |
DaemonFC | well, it's hard to find professional quality software for Linux | May 23 06:23 |
DaemonFC | and it's very expensive on Windows | May 23 06:23 |
the_mad_hatter | the other computers were bought when case was tight. | May 23 06:23 |
DaemonFC | and that stuff mostly comes with a Mac | May 23 06:23 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, tell that to the lucky Macbook owners whose batteries exploded and power connectors caught aflame | May 23 06:24 |
the_mad_hatter | daemonfc - professional quality software is easier to find on Linux. | May 23 06:24 |
DaemonFC | not really, in the end it's all pretty much incompatible | May 23 06:24 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, or the Powerbook Titanium owners that had their keybords melted | May 23 06:24 |
the_mad_hatter | reversegtr - worst problem I had with a Mac, was that they don't make the power supplies Beagle proof. | May 23 06:24 |
DaemonFC | so you can't exchange files with people on Windows or Mac | May 23 06:24 |
DaemonFC | cause OpenOffice does formatting wrong | May 23 06:24 |
DaemonFC | for example | May 23 06:25 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, you Beagle died from being shocked :-o | May 23 06:25 |
the_mad_hatter | deamonFC - what do you mean, I exchange files between Windows, Mac, and Linux all the time, no problems. | May 23 06:25 |
tomsdale | I find it funny that Mac owners strongly approve and advertise their systems. Almost as much as the linux zealot. | May 23 06:25 |
DaemonFC | meh | May 23 06:25 |
DaemonFC | they all use Microsoft Office at the end of the dat | May 23 06:25 |
the_mad_hatter | reversegtr - no, little bastard was lucky, it wasn't plugged in <G> | May 23 06:25 |
DaemonFC | *day | May 23 06:25 |
DaemonFC | so MS gets their pound of flesh | May 23 06:26 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, fact of the matter is whatever uniquness internally Macs had have gone out the Window once they stopped supporting PowerPC | May 23 06:26 |
the_mad_hatter | daemonfc - I don't know any Mac owners who use Office anymore, they all use Iwork, or Open Office. | May 23 06:26 |
the_mad_hatter | reversegtr - but the hardware is do much better than what the other computer manufacturers make, it's incredible. | May 23 06:27 |
tomsdale | so either the system is vastly superior or there is a conspiracy - I'm starting to get intrigued. | May 23 06:27 |
DaemonFC | Office for Mac is a lot better than Office for Windows | May 23 06:27 |
DaemonFC | actually | May 23 06:27 |
the_mad_hatter | reversegtr - I've had a ton of computers over the years, Macs are better made than anything on the market today. Way better made. They are like the Compaqs of 20 years ago. Solid. | May 23 06:28 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, I find it no different then other PC hardware, if not inferior in raw specs. Its the OS and its API that takes more advantage of it and in a manner that spans to even their lowest spec models | May 23 06:28 |
DaemonFC | most Mac software Microsoft makes is better than the corresponding Windows version | May 23 06:28 |
DaemonFC | Internet Explorer for Mac was pretty good | May 23 06:28 |
DaemonFC | totally different program | May 23 06:28 |
tomsdale | My gf has a mac - she is a graphic artist so she has no choice. I tried the OS but I didn't like it. First thing that put me of is the neglectance of the Command Line xterm interface | May 23 06:28 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, don't let the easily scratchable plastic aluminum mix fool you, they are prone to heating up and even those cases cause an inferior Wifi signal | May 23 06:29 |
the_mad_hatter | daemonfc - I've never seen Office for the Mac, but only an idiot would buy it. Iwork is better than Office for Windows, and cheaper. Open Office is free, and damned near as good. | May 23 06:29 |
DaemonFC | I've not had good luck with OpenOffice | May 23 06:29 |
DaemonFC | their formats are bloated | May 23 06:29 |
DaemonFC | their conversion filters mangle things | May 23 06:29 |
tomsdale | 2nd - Nautilus i superior to Finder. What a joke of a file manager. | May 23 06:29 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, I admit their Mac Pro towers are nice, but the fact that OSX is always a generation behind in video compatibilty is what kills it for a true bang for your buck value | May 23 06:30 |
DaemonFC | an ODT file is uaully at least 50% bigger than a docx | May 23 06:30 |
DaemonFC | that's IF it even imported it right | May 23 06:30 |
the_mad_hatter | daemonfc - I've nver had any problems. | May 23 06:30 |
DaemonFC | which is a big if | May 23 06:30 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, but I admit the Mac cases feel nice | May 23 06:30 |
DaemonFC | if you have to use OpenOffice, I'm sorry | May 23 06:30 |
DaemonFC | but Go-OO at least doesn't blow as hard | May 23 06:30 |
the_mad_hatter | reversegtr - a lot of people I know delete OSX, and install Linux on their Macs. | May 23 06:31 |
DaemonFC | who would do such a thing? | May 23 06:31 |
tomsdale | 3rd - I hate the dock - give me a task bar. It's not possible on mac to my knowledge. | May 23 06:31 |
DaemonFC | crime against good taste | May 23 06:31 |
ReverseGTR | tomsdale, Nautilus is great, I didn't know what a file managing system can be capable of until I gave it a whurl | May 23 06:31 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, why is that? | May 23 06:31 |
the_mad_hatter | I've been using Open Office at home since it was Star Office, and really like it. I use Microsoft Office at work, and compatibility between versions is a nightmare | May 23 06:31 |
the_mad_hatter | daemonfc - linux hackers, who else <G> | May 23 06:32 |
DaemonFC | GNOME really hasn't moved on past a lot of Windows 95-ish behavior | May 23 06:32 |
DaemonFC | I mean it's not a direct clone, but it's close | May 23 06:32 |
tomsdale | I wrote this comparison the other day in which I compared a Mac to Playmobile vs Linux = Lego. | May 23 06:32 |
the_mad_hatter | daemonfc - also audio-video production people. A lot of Macs used there, have Linux installed. | May 23 06:32 |
DaemonFC | I would never install Linux on a Mac | May 23 06:33 |
DaemonFC | unless it was just old or something | May 23 06:33 |
the_mad_hatter | daemonfc - different strokes... | May 23 06:33 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, I'm still curious as to the strong appeal of Mac users switching to Linux besides cheaper software | May 23 06:33 |
tomsdale | Playmobil arrives all shiny ready to go out of the box while linux requires to put together your own bricks to create something that works for you. | May 23 06:33 |
the_mad_hatter | reversegtr - better software | May 23 06:34 |
DaemonFC | Why would you buy a Mac to put Linux on it? | May 23 06:34 |
DaemonFC | that's like buying a Lexus and putting a Geo Metro 3 cylinder engine in it | May 23 06:34 |
the_mad_hatter | if you are a linux programmer, and you want good hardware, you buy a mac, and nuke the OS | May 23 06:34 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, true, but many Mac faithful contest that Apple software is better because it is easier to use and has a unified theme with the desktop | May 23 06:34 |
tomsdale | I'd buy a mac for the applications available on it. | May 23 06:34 |
the_mad_hatter | gotta go - my boys want to go for a walk | May 23 06:34 |
DaemonFC | good luck finding any two Linux programs that act alike | May 23 06:35 |
DaemonFC | unless they came with your desktop environment | May 23 06:35 |
the_mad_hatter | Yeah, right. Apple software isn't any easier to use. | May 23 06:35 |
the_mad_hatter | Mind you, OSX makes windows look like a 1982 Yugo. | May 23 06:35 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, if I wanted a nice looking case for my Linux box I wouldn't have to buy a Mac, I could just get a Raptor or Thermaltake case and for notebooks Sager and MSI have nice looking sleek notebooks | May 23 06:35 |
the_mad_hatter | But then so does Ubuntu | May 23 06:35 |
tomsdale | and likes to crash just as any other software out there. With the difference that it can bring down the OS. | May 23 06:35 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu is like a blast from the past | May 23 06:36 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, hey don't bash Yugos, you would have been hard pressed finding a car of that value at below $2k :P | May 23 06:37 |
DaemonFC | like I said, the condescending nature of the Mac, the reliability of Windows, and no software = Ubuntu | May 23 06:37 |
tomsdale | the_mad_hatter: outint myself but I do prefer the vista 7 windowmanager to osX | May 23 06:37 |
DaemonFC | I can't ever seem to get used to the top bar becomes the menu for the app you selected | May 23 06:37 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 23 06:37 |
DaemonFC | that's jsut weird | May 23 06:37 |
tomsdale | agreed - and what's that character thing every time you rightclick | May 23 06:38 |
ReverseGTR | does Ubuntu have memory protection? | May 23 06:38 |
ReverseGTR | DaemonFC, the top bar becoming the menu for every app has been around since the first Xerox PARC rolled out of the labs | May 23 06:39 |
tomsdale | what do you mean by memory protection @ ReverseGTR | May 23 06:40 |
tomsdale | you mean like a program can't access memory from another program | May 23 06:40 |
ReverseGTR | tomsdale, as in if an application crashes which brings down the entire OS, does it back up any other memory to RAM so then its shifted to the hardrive and prevents data from being lost? | May 23 06:41 |
ReverseGTR | tomsdale, yea and that too | May 23 06:41 |
ReverseGTR | tomsdale, well the main part of memory protection is that once an application crashes the memory is quickly freed so other apps running don't get corrupted | May 23 06:43 |
tomsdale | ReverseGTR: just asked that question in the ubuntu channel. I never had an application in ubuntu bringing down the whole system. kwin and xorg yes - but that was on alpha versions. | May 23 06:43 |
tomsdale | I think this is more of a kernel question ... | May 23 06:44 |
ReverseGTR | true, but it can also play a roll in the API | May 23 06:45 |
ReverseGTR | but yea its mainly a quality the kernel must possess | May 23 06:45 |
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tomsdale | I think in regards to memory management linux is very mature. I think that's one of the reasons linux is very stable as far as the kernel goes. hw drivers and X is another story. | May 23 06:47 |
tomsdale | well, hw drivers is kernel as well but then your computer usually just resets and all is lost. | May 23 06:49 |
tomsdale | I saw an interesting book on linux kernel memory management on amazon but I didn't quite feel up for that much off kernel deepness :-) | May 23 06:50 |
tomsdale | From what I can tell - please correct me If I'm wrong. Apple took a underlying BSD OS and just wrote a graphic library on top | May 23 06:52 |
tomsdale | I think Xorg must have done a better job at least with regards to stability since I never had an application crash my whole system. On Mac that happens. My gf can tell a story. | May 23 06:54 |
ReverseGTR | tomsdale, yep, its the Mach kernel and the name of their APIs is Cocoa and Aqua | May 23 06:54 |
ReverseGTR | Cocoa handles all 2D and language handlers while Aqua is mostly for OpenGL implementation | May 23 06:55 |
ReverseGTR | Aqua also seems to define certain codecs such as AAC, MPEG4 and H.264 | May 23 06:58 |
tomsdale | How does Aqua compare to the linux equivalent which is what - compiz? | May 23 06:58 |
tomsdale | kwin | May 23 06:58 |
ReverseGTR | I would say Aqua is like Compiz when it comes to handling desktop affects, but it does more too | May 23 06:59 |
ReverseGTR | it seems that Aqua is also responsible for handling all the menus and tabs which is why OSX has a uniform look | May 23 07:00 |
tomsdale | From what I can tell regarding desktop effects I can reproduce most of the mac OSx effects on Linux and more but it might be less efficient than aqua. | May 23 07:01 |
ReverseGTR | tomsdale, probably, Aqua and Cocoa create an immense API that is probably more integral to OSX than the kernel itself | May 23 07:02 |
tomsdale | I think on linux a lot of uniformity is lost because you have qt and gtk. | May 23 07:02 |
oiaohm | dri2 is required to improve the video handing of Linux. | May 23 07:03 |
oiaohm | qt exists on many platforms. | May 23 07:03 |
oiaohm | Lack of shared theming on Linux breaks the uniformity. | May 23 07:03 |
tomsdale | it's a deal breaker for many people. | May 23 07:04 |
tomsdale | especially on KDE. | May 23 07:04 |
oiaohm | http://code.google.com/p/gtk-qt-engine/ | May 23 07:04 |
oiaohm | gtk applications can be theme merged with qt | May 23 07:04 |
oiaohm | Other way does not work. | May 23 07:04 |
oiaohm | For a long time gtk-qt engine had legal problems. | May 23 07:05 |
oiaohm | Because gtk and qt were different licences but that is no more these days. | May 23 07:06 |
tomsdale | and access to files seems to be buffered somehow as well at least on KDE. opening a video file over a samba first copies it into a temporary directory which is done much more nicly on mac. | May 23 07:06 |
tomsdale | s/samba/samba share/ | May 23 07:07 |
tomsdale | oiaohm: what is dri2? | May 23 07:07 |
oiaohm | direct rendering interface 2 version. | May 23 07:07 |
tomsdale | does it come by default with Xorg? | May 23 07:08 |
oiaohm | Xorg most distributions are using direct rendering interface 1 version. | May 23 07:08 |
oiaohm | What is quite old. | May 23 07:08 |
oiaohm | dri1 only supports stablely like 1 opengl application at a time. | May 23 07:08 |
oiaohm | So stuff like compiz only works due to hacking over dri1 defects. | May 23 07:09 |
tomsdale | i have jaunty with Xorg 1.6 afaik. | May 23 07:10 |
oiaohm | Drivers for dri2 are no fully out yet either. | May 23 07:11 |
oiaohm | You do have early intel dri2 drivers with jaunty. | May 23 07:11 |
tomsdale | In my experience jaunty was a step back in graphics performance even with a NVidia card. My 8.04 Server behaves much more responsible with CPU power with compiz enabled compared to kwin on jaunty. | May 23 07:12 |
oiaohm | Side effect of dri2 arch being implemented dri1 mode has taken a speed hit. | May 23 07:13 |
oiaohm | Nvidia is dri1 with hacks. | May 23 07:14 |
oiaohm | Some of Nvidias old ways of hooking in where removed in Xorg 1.6. | May 23 07:14 |
oiaohm | You are using something midd transition from one system to another tomsdale | May 23 07:15 |
tomsdale | Well, you have to say though - being on linux I have the impression you always look forward to the next release:-) | May 23 07:15 |
tomsdale | yes - that's my impression actually. I still recommend and install 8.10 for my friends. | May 23 07:16 |
tomsdale | oiaohm: which OS are you using? | May 23 07:17 |
oiaohm | Debian at moment. | May 23 07:18 |
oiaohm | I do support for the wine project from time to time. Video card problems drive us up the wall there. | May 23 07:18 |
oiaohm | So you kinda know that is going on. | May 23 07:19 |
tomsdale | I recommend ubuntu to my friends simply because of the fact that if you type in "ubuntu myProblem" you have the highest hitrate :-) | May 23 07:19 |
oiaohm | GLX pre 1999 for opengl. DRI1 with design based off GLX 1999 and DRI2 most likely fully deployed for 2009 and its a full redesign. So not what you call fast change rate | May 23 07:20 |
tomsdale | I guess that'S the achilles Verso of Wine - I suppose emulating the Windows API for graphical applications is quite hard. | May 23 07:20 |
oiaohm | Ubuntu is also the one I find with the most incompetent instructions. | May 23 07:21 |
oiaohm | Ubuntu fails to merge upstream correctly. | May 23 07:22 |
tomsdale | you might have a point there - Hey I found this wordpress and my friend just installed ubuntu on my computer - let's blog :-) | May 23 07:22 |
oiaohm | Most dangrous place for instructions in the Ubuntu wiki and forums. | May 23 07:22 |
tomsdale | still ubuntu seems to get the marketing right. The Debian website aims at developers and technically minded people. | May 23 07:23 |
oiaohm | They copy off of other wikis so information ends up out of date and incorrect. | May 23 07:23 |
oiaohm | Ubuntu also destoryed my two favorate windows managers. | May 23 07:23 |
oiaohm | xfce and kde. | May 23 07:23 |
oiaohm | I don't use them to look like gnome. | May 23 07:24 |
tomsdale | how is that ubuntus fault? | May 23 07:24 |
oiaohm | Ubuntu versions of them. | May 23 07:25 |
oiaohm | They have altered the layout and themes to match Gnome. | May 23 07:25 |
tomsdale | kubuntu jaunty came with the default kde theme afaict. No alterations there. | May 23 07:25 |
ReverseGTR | I think I am going to stick with Fedora in the future because I am just too comphy using yum repos | May 23 07:26 |
tomsdale | installled xubuntu on a really old PC: if you use firefox as your main browser then please just integrate it right into the OS - I myself could open a bloddy picture. | May 23 07:26 |
oiaohm | Ok so they have returned to santity with kubuntu. | May 23 07:27 |
tomsdale | tbh it looked more like lazyness to me. | May 23 07:28 |
ushimitsudoki | I use xfce in ubuntu. Works fine for me | May 23 07:29 |
tomsdale | ReverseGTR: Fedora seems too much cutting edge for me. | May 23 07:29 |
tomsdale | ushimitsudoki: I installed it in French - It ended up being half french half english since some parts of the system configuration were not tranlated, and that was 8.10 3 month ago. | May 23 07:30 |
oiaohm | http://www.xfce.org/images/about/screenshots/4.4-4.png << Old style xfce ushimitsudoki | May 23 07:30 |
ushimitsudoki | oiaohm: that's not too far from what I have going on | May 23 07:31 |
ReverseGTR | tomsdale, not if you decide to just stay a distro behind, sure some people say you must keep up to date to ensure the latest features in compatibility and being able to install the latest apps without dependancy issues. But ever since Fedora 5 most features a modern PC needs have been covered | May 23 07:31 |
ReverseGTR | tomsdale, jit ust comes down to figuring out which distro best suites your hardware's specs | May 23 07:32 |
ushimitsudoki | When it comes to DE's, you have basically 3 choices (unless you really like to tinker): Gnome, KDE, XFCE. | May 23 07:32 |
ushimitsudoki | Not interested in the mono shit in gnome, so that's out | May 23 07:32 |
ushimitsudoki | I haven't worked up the nerve to try KDE4.2 after the mess of the earlier 4.x releases | May 23 07:33 |
ushimitsudoki | So that pretty much leaves XFCE | May 23 07:33 |
ReverseGTR | ushimitsudoki, I'm right now using E17 | May 23 07:33 |
ushimitsudoki | E17 is nice, but still a bit too need of hands-on care - at least last time I tried. My friend is a bit Enlightenment fan, so I watch his desktop closely | May 23 07:34 |
tomsdale | Only thing that saves me at the moment is a 2.53 GHz Dual core. KDE seems a great sucker on CPU power sometimes | May 23 07:34 |
ushimitsudoki | I like what E17 promises, I hope it continues to improve | May 23 07:34 |
oiaohm | Do you have right click on desktop gives you list of applications to run ushimitsudoki. | May 23 07:35 |
ReverseGTR | ushimitsudoki, it does at times but you can easily restart the GUI through a terminal once anything goes wrong, and it usually only does if you are pushing the memory to the limit. The only really noticable achilies heal of E17 is how long it takes certain apps to load up | May 23 07:35 |
oiaohm | So you don't have to go back to the start button. | May 23 07:36 |
ushimitsudoki | oiaohm: mid-click gives running apps, rightclick gives a menu | May 23 07:36 |
ReverseGTR | oiaohm, yep you can set it that way | May 23 07:36 |
ReverseGTR | oiaohm, which comes in mighty handy considering the menu bar crashed once | May 23 07:36 |
oiaohm | Last time I tried xubuntu default I had to change that back. | May 23 07:37 |
ushimitsudoki | ReverseGTR: I did give it a spin several months ago. I *just* got done updating to the new release of ubuntu today, so I might try some new things soon | May 23 07:37 |
ushimitsudoki | XFCE has superior multi-monitor support, too - which is an important point for my desktop | May 23 07:38 |
tomsdale | I do like the way KDE is going with their Desktop atm - I'm just sincerely hoping for some performance improvements. | May 23 07:38 |
oiaohm | KDE 4.x is design for DRI2. | May 23 07:39 |
oiaohm | Running on DRI1 does hurt its performance. | May 23 07:39 |
tomsdale | running an almost idle session on 15% is just not acceptable. | May 23 07:40 |
oiaohm | Kde 3.5 for me runs under 1% | May 23 07:42 |
tomsdale | well, we'll see in 6 month if things improove. I do like what I see but at a certain cost. | May 23 07:42 |
oiaohm | also with ubuntu always be aware of indexing. | May 23 07:43 |
tomsdale | yeah - maybe it's time for a KDE distro to look somewhere else. | May 23 07:45 |
tomsdale | maybe Mandriva. | May 23 07:45 |
oiaohm | kde is highly customisable. | May 23 07:47 |
oiaohm | There are many things that can increase load. | May 23 07:47 |
tomsdale | maybe it'S too customizable - my X process has 350MB reserved Memory. | May 23 07:48 |
oiaohm | DRI 1 kinda expected. | May 23 07:49 |
oiaohm | When I explain this you are really going to wonder what the design of DRI 1 was on. | May 23 07:49 |
tomsdale | I gotta read into this tomorrow I think - sounds like something I'd like to know more. | May 23 07:49 |
oiaohm | X11 servers under DRI 1 has no way to know what what is stored in the video card. | May 23 07:50 |
oiaohm | So has to cache everything that would be stored in the video card just in case something else replaces it. | May 23 07:50 |
oiaohm | Say hello to huge convertional memory usage. | May 23 07:50 |
tomsdale | followed by quassel - 264MB Reserved and 734 VIRT. It's a heavy discussion going on here guys :-) | May 23 07:50 |
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_Goblin | good morning all....bank holiday weekend, Im off work...what could be better. | May 23 07:51 |
oiaohm | IRC client really don't have justification | May 23 07:52 |
tomsdale | Not really a problem these days with loads of RAM available - but sounds like quite a bad architecture. | May 23 07:52 |
tomsdale | oiaohm: you mean as an application? | May 23 07:53 |
oiaohm | I only have 35 meg reserved running konversation. | May 23 07:54 |
oiaohm | And konversation I class as heavy. | May 23 07:54 |
tomsdale | quassel does seem to log back to the dawn of the world though. I just don't get why it keeps it in memory. | May 23 07:55 |
tomsdale | but looks more like a memory leak. | May 23 07:55 |
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the_mad_hatter | Moon OS - Enlightenment version - light, fast, great looking. | May 23 07:58 |
the_mad_hatter | http://www.moonos.co.cc/ | May 23 07:59 |
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the_mad_hatter | Also Dream Linux - XFCE based. Nice distro. | May 23 08:00 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, whoa that looks like the ideal distro for a well speced laptop | May 23 08:00 |
the_mad_hatter | I like Moon OS. Took it off because of left track button, but since I found an optical mouse will work on a couch (hell, I can use the Beagle for a mouse pad) | May 23 08:02 |
the_mad_hatter | I'm going back. | May 23 08:02 |
DaemonFC | yay | May 23 08:02 |
DaemonFC | cheeseball zombie scares | May 23 08:02 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 23 08:02 |
tomsdale | ok - time to hit the sheets, won't be installing any new distros tonight anymore :-) ... gn8 | May 23 08:02 |
DaemonFC | that game sucked | May 23 08:02 |
DaemonFC | I hit a game glitch | May 23 08:02 |
ReverseGTR | tomsdale, night | May 23 08:03 |
the_mad_hatter | Yeah, it's 3:00 AM and I got yardwork tomorrow :( | May 23 08:03 |
the_mad_hatter | night all | May 23 08:03 |
ReverseGTR | the_mad_hatter, iight night too | May 23 08:03 |
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_Goblin | Never tried Dream Linux...may give it a go | May 23 08:07 |
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schestowitz | Hey | May 23 08:44 |
schestowitz | http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25191/1054/ "Disregarding Apple's opinion that current netbooks are "junky" and the company's willingness to sue Mac clone makers, a Russian website is offering a MiniBook with Mac OS X running on an Asus Eee PC." | May 23 08:45 |
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schestowitz | Linux.com: Just Another News Site? < http://www.itnewstoday.com/?p=382 > | May 23 08:52 |
schestowitz | Library Of Congress's Depression Photos Debut On Flickr http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/05/22/library-of-congresss-depression-photos-debut-on-flickr-0 | May 23 08:53 |
schestowitz | Fedora 11 Common Bugs page < http://www.happyassassin.net/2009/05/22/fedora-11-common-bugs-page/ > | May 23 09:07 |
schestowitz | It's about time: Red Hat Sues Switzerland Over Microsoft Monopoly < http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/red-hat-sues-switzerland-over-microsoft-monopoly-965 > | May 23 09:12 |
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trmanco | http://digg.com/d1rsUr | May 23 09:12 |
trmanco | heh | May 23 09:12 |
trmanco | look at this | May 23 09:12 |
trmanco | 7 is famous | May 23 09:13 |
schestowitz | OK | May 23 09:13 |
trmanco | 7 guy on cola | May 23 09:13 |
schestowitz | HIP HIP HOORAY!! | May 23 09:13 |
schestowitz | HIP HIP HOORAY!! | May 23 09:13 |
schestowitz | HIP HIP HOORAY!! | May 23 09:13 |
schestowitz | :-) | May 23 09:13 |
schestowitz | You lost me at the juvenile "Microshaft," "PISTA," and "OSen." | May 23 09:14 |
trmanco | lol | May 23 09:14 |
trmanco | PISTA | May 23 09:14 |
schestowitz | Yeah. | May 23 09:16 |
schestowitz | & is OK | May 23 09:16 |
schestowitz | His heart is at the right place. | May 23 09:16 |
schestowitz | Oops /&/7/ | May 23 09:16 |
schestowitz | The “plasma leak” story… < http://darktears.wordpress.com/2009/05/22/the-plasma-leak-story/ > | May 23 09:17 |
*schestowitz will post to COLA in a moment | May 23 09:17 | |
schestowitz | Blech. I'm tired from this man's opinions: How we won the open source battle < http://www.infoworld.com/d/open-source/how-we-won-open-source-battle-449 > | May 23 09:22 |
schestowitz | Several vulnerabilities closed in Pidgin 2.5.6 < http://www.h-online.com/open/Several-vulnerabilities-closed-in-Pidgin-2-5-6--/news/113350 > | May 23 09:23 |
schestowitz | GNOME.org revamp < http://www.silwenae.org/blog/?p=1135 > | May 23 09:24 |
trmanco | Software installation in Linux is difficult: http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/software-installation-in-linux-is-difficult/ | May 23 09:24 |
schestowitz | http://jeremy.linuxquestions.org/2009/05/21/oracle-sun-acquisition-musings/ "I think it’s clear that this acquisition will mean some significant changes for the future path of MySQL. The fact that a lot of upcoming MySQL-related innovation may come from outside the company, and from places like the Open Database Alliance should at least ensure that MySQL remains viable from a technology standpoint." | May 23 09:25 |
schestowitz | trmanco: LOL | May 23 09:26 |
trmanco | :) | May 23 09:26 |
schestowitz | What Does Beta Mean To You? < http://www.pcmech.com/article/what-does-beta-mean-to-you/ > | May 23 09:30 |
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schestowitz | Ex-BBC science man slams corp: 'Evangelical, shallow and sparse'' http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/22/bbc_whitehouse_climate/ | May 23 09:35 |
schestowitz | Boston dorm computer raid ruled illegal http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/22/computer_seizure_ruled_illegal/ | May 23 09:37 |
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goblin | Microsoft wont attend EU anti trust date? Has Microsoft lost its bottle with "soft" being the operative word? | May 23 10:47 |
schestowitz | Delay tactics | May 23 10:48 |
schestowitz | Still the same law-'unabiding' drek | May 23 10:48 |
schestowitz | it's a good thing that Microsoft -- like other rogue companies -- is on its way out, fast | May 23 10:48 |
oiaohm | goblin: EU don't respond to Delaying tactics | May 23 10:49 |
oiaohm | They give you a date you don't take it stiff. | May 23 10:49 |
schestowitz | Oter challenges will be Google (fog computing), IBM's proprietary, software patents-rich agenda, and the DRM workshop called Apple | May 23 10:49 |
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goblin | yeah its going to be written evidence for Microsoft | May 23 10:50 |
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oiaohm | Microsoft asked for a verbal herring as part of EU anti-trust there is no requirement fore a verbal herring. | May 23 10:54 |
schestowitz | tacone: many articles about earcandy today | May 23 10:55 |
schestowitz | http://webupd8.blogspot.com/2009/05/earcandy-is-smart-pulseaudio-volume.html | May 23 10:56 |
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oiaohm | http://www.osnews.com/story/21547/Microsoft_To_Remove_Windows_7_Starter_Three_App_Limit Hmm | May 23 10:59 |
oiaohm | MS is trying to force netbooks smaller. | May 23 10:59 |
schestowitz | So how will they make money? | May 23 11:01 |
goblin | Ive seen that rumour. Andre Da Costa mentioned it...I wonder if that will affect pricing...MS must be worried about how desirable Vista 7 is to the average user. | May 23 11:02 |
schestowitz | Remember Red Hat and Canonical saying there is no money in the desktop? | May 23 11:02 |
schestowitz | Microsoft should take note | May 23 11:02 |
schestowitz | it applies to MS too | May 23 11:02 |
goblin | I think ideas like Ubuntu One may lead to a return for Linux on the desktop | May 23 11:02 |
schestowitz | Profitability of Office too will be affected, mostly by Fog Computing | May 23 11:03 |
goblin | If you look at the sucesses of some distro's donate scheme, I think you have a very generous FOSS community which will support the companies producing the distros. | May 23 11:04 |
goblin | in the long run | May 23 11:04 |
oiaohm | Most distributions that last depend on support providing. | May 23 11:05 |
goblin | If Gentoo was a closed source proprietary distro, Id buy it over a Microsoft offering anyday. I think for me it comes down to which product is fit for purpose for me, the price is irrelevant if the software doesnt function | May 23 11:06 |
oiaohm | debian is one of the rare out siders on this. | May 23 11:06 |
goblin | Although Gentoo is wholly unsuitable for most (IMO).... | May 23 11:08 |
oiaohm | Next major battle will be in the small business market. | May 23 11:08 |
oiaohm | Unles something changes on time lines. | May 23 11:09 |
oiaohm | Proper multiseat support is also under way with Linux. | May 23 11:17 |
MinceR | how are you gentlemen !! | May 23 11:34 |
goblin | enjoying the bank holiday weekend! | May 23 11:34 |
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_Hicham_ | Hi All! | May 23 11:35 |
goblin | hi! | May 23 11:35 |
schestowitz | Hey | May 23 11:38 |
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_Hicham_ | schestowitz have just woken up from a long mono dream | May 23 11:40 |
_Hicham_ | in fact, it was a nightmare | May 23 11:40 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz dreamed that all of his servers components got ported to mono | May 23 11:41 |
schestowitz | No Mono. Nomo | May 23 11:41 |
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oiaohm | Could be worse. | May 23 11:44 |
oiaohm | I once dreamed that someone ported my server code to geek code. | May 23 11:44 |
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_Hicham_ | to geek code? | May 23 11:52 |
schestowitz | Geeklog | May 23 11:55 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_ will like this video in gnash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2iCo645eZk | May 23 12:01 |
_Hicham_ | I don't use gnash | May 23 12:02 |
_Hicham_ | i use adobe flash player | May 23 12:02 |
_Hicham_ | it is the only proprietary piece of code that I have | May 23 12:03 |
schestowitz | O, use whateva' | May 23 12:03 |
_Hicham_ | no | May 23 12:04 |
_Hicham_ | it is immoral | May 23 12:04 |
_Hicham_ | maybe flash will be ported to mono | May 23 12:04 |
_Hicham_ | mono is at least open source | May 23 12:04 |
_Hicham_ | hahahahahaha | May 23 12:05 |
_Hicham_ | I have seen some interesting animations in moonlight | May 23 12:06 |
_Hicham_ | they work pretty good | May 23 12:06 |
_Hicham_ | no high CPU usage problem | May 23 12:06 |
_Hicham_ | Flash is a problem too | May 23 12:06 |
_Hicham_ | it is the same as moonlight | May 23 12:06 |
_Hicham_ | it uses a lot of proprietary codecs | May 23 12:06 |
_Hicham_ | so what is the fucking difference ? | May 23 12:07 |
_Hicham_ | I see that moonlight is better than flash | May 23 12:07 |
MinceR | i've seen moonblight play video in the exact same crap way trash does | May 23 12:08 |
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_Hicham_ | personally, I prefer moonlight to flash | May 23 12:10 |
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tacone | oh, finally ear candy has been packaged | May 23 12:13 |
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_Hicham_ | what is ear candy? | May 23 12:14 |
MinceR | earwax | May 23 12:14 |
MinceR | ;) | May 23 12:14 |
zer0c00l | _Hicham_, something sweet to ear | May 23 12:15 |
trmanco | Microsoft cuts IM service to five 'hostile' nations: http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/052209-microsoft-cuts-im-service-to.html | May 23 12:19 |
_Hicham_ | fuck Microsoft | May 23 12:19 |
saul_ | SourceForge eliminated the Most Likely To: "be acquired", "infringe patents", and "be sued" categories for the 2009 Community Choice awards. http://sourceforge.net/community/cca09/categories/ | May 23 12:19 |
MinceR | m$ makes it more explicit that they own the USA? | May 23 12:20 |
_Hicham_ | MS own the computer world | May 23 12:21 |
oiaohm | LOL | May 23 12:23 |
oiaohm | MS only owns 1 section of it _Hicham_ | May 23 12:23 |
oiaohm | Linux owns the high end. | May 23 12:23 |
MinceR | or perhaps m$ wants to gain the support of usian nationalists by supporting their agenda | May 23 12:24 |
_Hicham_ | MS still owns the major parts | May 23 12:25 |
_Hicham_ | due to Linux non-locking techniques | May 23 12:26 |
_Hicham_ | basically, package management, and naming conventions are still a problem | May 23 12:26 |
_Hicham_ | is package management is to be unified, Linux can progress faster | May 23 12:27 |
_Hicham_ | that way, there will be one repo for the kernel | May 23 12:27 |
_Hicham_ | one repo for gnome | May 23 12:28 |
_Hicham_ | one repo for kde | May 23 12:28 |
MinceR | oh, the old "waaaah, there are too many distros" whine | May 23 12:28 |
_Hicham_ | and so on | May 23 12:28 |
_Hicham_ | yes | May 23 12:28 |
schestowitz | This one's good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV4_lVTVa6k&feature=related | May 23 12:28 |
_Hicham_ | it is an obstable to progress | May 23 12:28 |
MinceR | let's just do another windows and it will be perfect... oh, wait | May 23 12:28 |
MinceR | no, it's the way progress can be done | May 23 12:28 |
_Hicham_ | no, it is not another windows | May 23 12:28 |
_Hicham_ | it is a collaborative effort | May 23 12:28 |
MinceR | you can't try every new idea in the same distro | May 23 12:29 |
schestowitz | saul_: yes, I noticed that | May 23 12:29 |
MinceR | you can't experiment with new ways to manage packages if it's mandatory to use the same package manager | May 23 12:29 |
schestowitz | I think I wrote about it in BN, too | May 23 12:29 |
schestowitz | NO MS sponsorship yet | May 23 12:29 |
schestowitz | Maybe that's why | May 23 12:29 |
_Hicham_ | it is not like that MinceR | May 23 12:29 |
*schestowitz works on daily links | May 23 12:30 | |
_Hicham_ | I am talking about universal stable repos | May 23 12:30 |
oiaohm | I look at cure to too many distributions a different path. | May 23 12:30 |
MinceR | you can't move to a new init replacement if you have to force the whole world to move with you | May 23 12:30 |
oiaohm | Major road block to running multi distributions on 1 kernel is X11 | May 23 12:30 |
_Hicham_ | no | May 23 12:30 |
MinceR | and i'm talking about having multiple distros with their own repos and package managers if they choose so | May 23 12:30 |
_Hicham_ | u can't still have you own launchpad | May 23 12:30 |
schestowitz | I see that Microsoft fights Cuba now | May 23 12:30 |
schestowitz | I guess that are not happy with the migration to Linux | May 23 12:31 |
_Hicham_ | I am talking about a unified stable distro | May 23 12:31 |
MinceR | schestowitz: right, i forgot about that | May 23 12:31 |
oiaohm | Once you can run multi distributions side by side you can start merging them. | May 23 12:31 |
_Hicham_ | that is vanilla | May 23 12:31 |
schestowitz | Not a SINGLE country other than the US has a problem with Cuba | May 23 12:31 |
MinceR | that explains the m$n issue | May 23 12:31 |
schestowitz | :-) | May 23 12:31 |
oiaohm | So we can have expanding and reducing distributions numbers. | May 23 12:31 |
_Hicham_ | upstream projects won't have a problem then | May 23 12:31 |
MinceR | but i suspect all they'll succeed at doing is making them migrate to jabber or something | May 23 12:31 |
MinceR | _Hicham_: and who will be that stable distro? | May 23 12:32 |
schestowitz | "Microsoft wouldn't comment on why it chose to shut down the service at this time, or how long people in those countries had been able to access Windows Live Messenger. Microsoft said it does not currently do business with those countries. " | May 23 12:32 |
_Hicham_ | a collaborative effort | May 23 12:32 |
schestowitz | Those countries should not be doing business with Microsoft, either | May 23 12:32 |
MinceR | but _whose_ collaborative effort? | May 23 12:32 |
oiaohm | After X11 is able to run multable. Then X11 desktops can expand to support cleanly running applications from multiable distributions. | May 23 12:32 |
_Hicham_ | that is synced 100% with upstream projects | May 23 12:32 |
MinceR | appoint debian and fedora fans will ignore your idea | May 23 12:32 |
schestowitz | Jabber=Fiasco Systems | May 23 12:32 |
MinceR | appoint fedora and debian fans will ignore you | May 23 12:32 |
oiaohm | My idea does not depend on them being willing MinceR | May 23 12:33 |
_Hicham_ | no | May 23 12:33 |
MinceR | schestowitz: they could still run their own servers | May 23 12:33 |
_Hicham_ | Fedora and Debian are for different segments | May 23 12:33 |
_Hicham_ | Fedora is a launchpad for new techs | May 23 12:33 |
oiaohm | Once you can run multiable distributins without issues a shared distribution can be made. | May 23 12:33 |
MinceR | oiaohm: what's the X11 issue? | May 23 12:33 |
oiaohm | You cannot run under dri1 two X11 servers with 3d accleration. | May 23 12:34 |
oiaohm | And you cannot mange them to be displayed on 1 screen. | May 23 12:34 |
MinceR | oh you meant two distros at the same time? | May 23 12:34 |
oiaohm | Yes. | May 23 12:34 |
MinceR | with containers or virtualization? | May 23 12:34 |
oiaohm | with containers | May 23 12:34 |
MinceR | ic | May 23 12:34 |
oiaohm | 1 Linux kernel | May 23 12:35 |
MinceR | does that support running 2 inits? | May 23 12:35 |
oiaohm | Yep. | May 23 12:35 |
oiaohm | Some minor disabling of double init hardware. | May 23 12:35 |
oiaohm | But as cgroup tech expands that will not be required. | May 23 12:36 |
oiaohm | Its allready done with openvz and it works as long as you don't want a X11 server runing 3d applications. | May 23 12:37 |
schestowitz | US education being crippled voluntarily: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40Q8p3GqPqQ&NR=1 | May 23 12:38 |
MinceR | if you can manage switching between them, they should work | May 23 12:39 |
MinceR | (virtual console switching) | May 23 12:40 |
oiaohm | It all works at moment as long as you don't mind interface with them threw vnc. | May 23 12:40 |
oiaohm | And not having opengl. | May 23 12:40 |
oiaohm | wayland allows X11 servers to be treated as windows. | May 23 12:41 |
oiaohm | You could using a few other basically cut and paste the interface into 1. | May 23 12:42 |
MinceR | switching between 2 x servers using opengl seems to work for me | May 23 12:42 |
MinceR | (as it should, since the x server is supposed to let go of the GPU if i switch away to another console) | May 23 12:43 |
MinceR | and i doubt my crappy binary nvidia driver supports dri2 :> | May 23 12:43 |
oiaohm | Nvidia has a few hacks to dri1 that let it work most of the time. | May 23 12:43 |
oiaohm | Notice the word most. | May 23 12:44 |
oiaohm | If you switch between the servers enough it will snap. | May 23 12:44 |
MinceR | :) | May 23 12:44 |
MinceR | hm, i wonder if windows can let go of the GPU too | May 23 12:44 |
oiaohm | Its also allowing secuirty between containers. | May 23 12:45 |
oiaohm | You don't want something inside a container taking down everything. | May 23 12:45 |
_Hicham_ | dri2 just rocks | May 23 12:45 |
oiaohm | gem ie kernel mode memory management in the dri2 system makes it possiable to run 2 X11 servers safely. | May 23 12:46 |
oiaohm | With KMS you can disconnect them from the real display without the X11 server knowing. | May 23 12:46 |
oiaohm | MinceR: its letting go of the videocard and reconneting that has made vt switching so risky. | May 23 12:47 |
MinceR | why? | May 23 12:48 |
MinceR | it should be possible to reinitialize | May 23 12:48 |
oiaohm | Screw the disconnect up you level the video card sometimes in a state it don't reinitialize correctly withotu powering the card off. | May 23 12:48 |
MinceR | ic | May 23 12:49 |
MinceR | can you tell the bus to power it off and on again? | May 23 12:49 |
oiaohm | Yes powering a card on and off for each vt switch would kill it quicky. | May 23 12:49 |
MinceR | oh. | May 23 12:49 |
oiaohm | Yes stuck between the rock and really hard place. | May 23 12:49 |
MinceR | also, it would be nice to have a key combination that the kernel will handle even if x is handling the keyboard | May 23 12:50 |
oiaohm | That already exists. | May 23 12:50 |
oiaohm | It called SAK. | May 23 12:50 |
*MinceR reads up on it | May 23 12:51 | |
oiaohm | http://kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/marcelo/linux-2.4/Documentation/SAK.txt | May 23 12:51 |
MinceR | thx | May 23 12:51 |
oiaohm | KMS should also keep vt switching working no matter what. | May 23 12:51 |
oiaohm | Basically all uncontrolled interfacing with video card is being removed. | May 23 12:52 |
oiaohm | So stacks of problems people complain about will disappear. | May 23 12:52 |
MinceR | are there any distros configured to have SAK work properly by default? | May 23 12:52 |
oiaohm | MinceR: Not 1. | May 23 12:53 |
oiaohm | X11 server disabled cntrl-alt-backspace because SAK is more dependable. | May 23 12:53 |
oiaohm | Distributions never though for one min that cntrl-alt-backspace was duplicated functionallity. | May 23 12:53 |
oiaohm | Why do we need 1 way to kill a X11 sever that is intermitent when the Linux kernel has something that will do the same thing that is more dependable. | May 23 12:54 |
oiaohm | There was no logic to keeping cntrl-alt-backspace. | May 23 12:55 |
_Hicham_ | there is a logic still oiaohm | May 23 12:55 |
schestowitz | Loads of good Linux news (daily lump): http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/23/more-android-phones/ | May 23 12:56 |
oiaohm | How _Hicham_ | May 23 12:56 |
_Hicham_ | system hang-ups | May 23 12:56 |
oiaohm | Assign ctrl-alt-backspace to SAK and it works unless the kernel is crashed. | May 23 12:56 |
MinceR | i see no problem with having one more way to do it | May 23 12:56 |
MinceR | nobody else uses ctrl-alt-pause anyway | May 23 12:56 |
oiaohm | Compared to X11 server version that if X11 server keyboard processing locked up it don't work. | May 23 12:57 |
oiaohm | End result is the same. | May 23 12:57 |
oiaohm | All applications on console terminated. | May 23 12:57 |
_Hicham_ | well, it is useful for me | May 23 12:58 |
_Hicham_ | it is better than a complete reboot | May 23 12:58 |
oiaohm | SAK does not cause a compete reboot. | May 23 12:59 |
oiaohm | Basically it does the same thing as ctrl-alt-backspace but works more often. | May 23 13:00 |
oiaohm | Instead of X11 server killing itself. The Linux kernel does it. | May 23 13:00 |
oiaohm | SAK is about preventing fake login screens | May 23 13:00 |
oiaohm | So killing the complete system would kinda be a disadvantage. | May 23 13:01 |
oiaohm | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjkyMg Also in that picture with 3 different forms of X11 server running what one will die to a ctrl-alt-backspace. | May 23 13:02 |
oiaohm | SAK will get them all. | May 23 13:03 |
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oiaohm | There is even work to bring back multi terminal support working correctly. Ie start X11 server assign it to a video card or screen start another. No double stacking of X11 server to do it. | May 23 13:10 |
schestowitz | Xandros Thinks Linspire Customers Use Microsoft Windows < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/23/xandros-assumes-windows/ > | May 23 13:18 |
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_Hicham_ | finally, I have yahoo pop3 access | May 23 13:22 |
_Hicham_ | fucking yahoo strategy | May 23 13:22 |
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tacone | thanks for linking ear candy schestowitz . much appreciated | May 23 13:36 |
tacone | it's a cool program. | May 23 13:36 |
tacone | http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/red-hat-sues-switzerland-over-microsoft-monopoly-965 | May 23 13:36 |
oiaohm | That kinda goes against redhat statement its not interested in the desktop does it. | May 23 13:39 |
MinceR | i thought they acquired qumranet because they decided they're interested in the desktop after all. | May 23 13:40 |
tacone | they didn't see a market for it | May 23 13:41 |
tacone | that doesn't prevent them to try create a market for it :) | May 23 13:41 |
oiaohm | Exactly. | May 23 13:41 |
oiaohm | Most MS people take it wrong. Redhat may have retreated does not mean they have quit on the idea. | May 23 13:41 |
Balrog_ | schestowitz: is BN being DDOSed again? | May 23 13:49 |
Balrog_ | not working too well :/ | May 23 13:49 |
tacone | nice xandros logo :) | May 23 13:54 |
oiaohm | Most likely working again Balrog_ | May 23 13:54 |
oiaohm | BN appears to have picked up a glitch in the last move. | May 23 13:54 |
oiaohm | So far not sure what it is. | May 23 13:55 |
MinceR | (offtopic) (animated) http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/3874/13182274655.gif | May 23 14:09 |
_Hicham_ | RedHat is interested in desktop market | May 23 14:19 |
_Hicham_ | their claim is legitimate | May 23 14:20 |
oiaohm | I expect to see more of this as the war for the desktop hots up | May 23 14:21 |
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_Hicham_ | Desktop is vital for Linux vendors | May 23 14:21 |
_Hicham_ | it is a way to spread their techs | May 23 14:22 |
_Hicham_ | it is not like MS way of fucking people | May 23 14:22 |
_Hicham_ | and spying on them | May 23 14:23 |
_Hicham_ | especially that the users do not have access to Windows Source Code | May 23 14:23 |
_Hicham_ | and some of its APIs are still hidden | May 23 14:23 |
_Hicham_ | so it is neither developer friendly or user friendly | May 23 14:23 |
_Hicham_ | they fuck all the people | May 23 14:23 |
oiaohm | Everything is working out great. | May 23 14:24 |
_Hicham_ | everything what? | May 23 14:31 |
_Hicham_ | what is working out great? | May 23 14:33 |
oiaohm | For Linux. | May 23 14:39 |
oiaohm | All the pieces are starting to drop into place. | May 23 14:39 |
_Hicham_ | yeah | May 23 14:40 |
_Hicham_ | Linux have got trouble to get into Desktop | May 23 14:41 |
_Hicham_ | but Mandrake was the first user friendly Distro | May 23 14:41 |
_Hicham_ | and Linux Distros should be that way | May 23 14:42 |
oiaohm | More lack of interest in desktop. | May 23 14:42 |
_Hicham_ | because desktop is not profitable for Linux | May 23 14:42 |
oiaohm | Mandrake focused on making it look good. | May 23 14:42 |
_Hicham_ | but now, things are changing | May 23 14:42 |
schestowitz | USPTO Leaves People Dead. Is the Intellectual Monopoly Doctrine Practically Dead Too? < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/23/intellectual-monopoly-doctrine-kills/ > I used a photo of _Hicham_'s girlfriend. | May 23 14:42 |
oiaohm | You cannot bulid a house on poor foundations. | May 23 14:42 |
oiaohm | X11 foundations are getting sorted out. | May 23 14:43 |
_Hicham_ | Mandrake did a great job | May 23 14:43 |
oiaohm | It will still leave the mess of audio. | May 23 14:43 |
_Hicham_ | drakconf is still a leader with YaST in ease of configuration | May 23 14:43 |
schestowitz | Balrog_: I see no sign of DDOS | May 23 14:44 |
oiaohm | http://www.freesoftwarepact.eu/ Interesting. | May 23 14:44 |
oiaohm | More and more groups are moving into the offensive. | May 23 14:44 |
schestowitz | I was away for an hour though | May 23 14:44 |
_Hicham_ | Firefox start to behave wild in BN | May 23 14:44 |
schestowitz | Fire nearby | May 23 14:44 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: how wild? | May 23 14:45 |
_Hicham_ | the CPU usage go high | May 23 14:45 |
schestowitz | What are the issues.. | May 23 14:45 |
schestowitz | Oh | May 23 14:45 |
schestowitz | Why might this be? | May 23 14:45 |
_Hicham_ | with basic operations | May 23 14:45 |
schestowitz | Same layout | May 23 14:45 |
_Hicham_ | scrolling | May 23 14:45 |
_Hicham_ | selecting text | May 23 14:45 |
schestowitz | Seems to be a PC-side thing | May 23 14:45 |
_Hicham_ | it might be a javascript issue | May 23 14:45 |
schestowitz | It uses just nicetitles | May 23 14:46 |
schestowitz | Nothing changed | May 23 14:46 |
_Hicham_ | though i m using the latest tracemonkey JIT | May 23 14:46 |
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_Hicham_ | present if FF3.5beta5 | May 23 14:46 |
schestowitz | Balrog_: was it slow? | May 23 14:47 |
oiaohm | LOl we sorted out the copyright thing here a long ago. | May 23 14:47 |
schestowitz | tacone: thank you, not me... I'm just linking to it | May 23 14:47 |
_Hicham_ | thing problem was not present with FF3.0.10 | May 23 14:47 |
oiaohm | Copyright here is automatic no need to register. | May 23 14:47 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: maybe the Ogg thing? | May 23 14:47 |
oiaohm | Only thing that takes paper work is transfering it. | May 23 14:47 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: I'd need to test it by June | May 23 14:48 |
schestowitz | July is FF release, right? | May 23 14:48 |
schestowitz | They delayed a little | May 23 14:48 |
_Hicham_ | I think I am gonna file a bug report to Mozilla | May 23 14:48 |
_Hicham_ | Also maybe the debug info is causing this | May 23 14:48 |
_Hicham_ | Fedora is shipping Firefox with debug-info | May 23 14:49 |
tacone | lol, ok | May 23 14:50 |
schestowitz | Hmmmm. DDOS again? | May 23 14:50 |
_Hicham_ | tacone the maffioso, how are u doing? | May 23 14:50 |
schestowitz | Not sure | May 23 14:50 |
_Hicham_ | BN seems very loaded | May 23 14:51 |
tacone | _Hicham_: i'm doing a shameless self-glorification post that will be out tomorrow | May 23 14:51 |
tacone | schestowitz: grab yourself a good statistic software | May 23 14:51 |
schestowitz | Yes, DDOS | May 23 14:51 |
tacone | do you can now better where does the visits come from | May 23 14:52 |
schestowitz | Bugger | May 23 14:52 |
_Hicham_ | not necessarily DDOS | May 23 14:54 |
_Hicham_ | pipelining can cause symptoms similar to ddos | May 23 14:54 |
_Hicham_ | a lot of firefox users use pipelining | May 23 14:54 |
schestowitz | BoycottNovell is again under DDOS (been 1 or 2 days since the last time) | May 23 14:54 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: no, I see server load and activity | May 23 14:55 |
tacone | it's w/e | May 23 14:55 |
tacone | they have more spare time | May 23 14:55 |
oiaohm | O well its war. | May 23 14:55 |
_Hicham_ | maybe useful : http://wiki.untangle.com/index.php/Attack_Blocker | May 23 14:56 |
_Hicham_ | BN is down again | May 23 14:56 |
_Hicham_ | you really need a proper solution schestowitz | May 23 14:57 |
schestowitz | tacone: if only it worked as a joke | May 23 14:57 |
_Hicham_ | Error establishing a database connection | May 23 14:57 |
schestowitz | I know, I know | May 23 14:57 |
schestowitz | The police are being wankers | May 23 14:57 |
_Hicham_ | why not try untangle | May 23 14:58 |
schestowitz | Who to turn to? FBI? | May 23 14:58 |
_Hicham_ | it seems to be a decent solution | May 23 14:58 |
_Hicham_ | why not? | May 23 14:58 |
_Hicham_ | or do u have sthg against untangle? | May 23 14:58 |
schestowitz | It's not free, but maybe tessier has a copy | May 23 14:58 |
_Hicham_ | it is free | May 23 14:59 |
_Hicham_ | under GPL | May 23 14:59 |
_Hicham_ | http://www.untangle.com/Open-Source-Package | May 23 15:00 |
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_Hicham_ | it is 450MB | May 23 15:00 |
_Hicham_ | will take about 5 hours with my slow connection | May 23 15:00 |
mtnd3w | Goodmorning... | May 23 15:01 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: how can it be so big? | May 23 15:02 |
_Hicham_ | it include a lot of apps | May 23 15:02 |
_Hicham_ | plus a basic OS | May 23 15:02 |
_Hicham_ | a lot of modules i mean | May 23 15:02 |
_Hicham_ | I think it is meant to be run on a separate machine | May 23 15:03 |
_Hicham_ | do u have a spare machine? | May 23 15:03 |
schestowitz | I think not | May 23 15:04 |
_Hicham_ | otherwise, run it in KVM | May 23 15:04 |
_Hicham_ | so that the virtual machine will do the trick of protection | May 23 15:04 |
schestowitz | It's in xen | May 23 15:04 |
_Hicham_ | that is when virtualization comes | May 23 15:04 |
_Hicham_ | create an image with whatever virtualization tech u want | May 23 15:05 |
_Hicham_ | but I think KVM is faster | May 23 15:05 |
_Hicham_ | what matters is that u get some protection | May 23 15:06 |
_Hicham_ | u can't keep playing Tom & Jerry with those bastards | May 23 15:06 |
_Hicham_ | or that u enjoy that? | May 23 15:07 |
schestowitz | But the solution is to send the police out, I think | May 23 15:07 |
schestowitz | To permanently defeat DDOS is probably not simple | May 23 15:08 |
_Hicham_ | well it is | May 23 15:08 |
_Hicham_ | this solutions monitors sources of packets | May 23 15:09 |
_Hicham_ | so when a source reaches certain level of sending, it is blocked | May 23 15:09 |
_Hicham_ | I am not an expert in that field, but I see this as a solution | May 23 15:09 |
_Hicham_ | police won't do anything | May 23 15:10 |
_Hicham_ | otherwise, this won't finish | May 23 15:12 |
_Hicham_ | u have the choice | May 23 15:12 |
_Hicham_ | I talked to tessier about that, but he plain ignored me | May 23 15:12 |
oiaohm | ddos attacks only real option is out last. | May 23 15:15 |
oiaohm | Or trick them. | May 23 15:15 |
_Hicham_ | oiaohm : what do u propose? | May 23 15:17 |
oiaohm | I am explain to schestowitz some methods. | May 23 15:18 |
schestowitz | <_Hicham_> #boycottnovell-social | May 23 15:19 |
tacone | offline time. autoglorification done ! good bye ! | May 23 15:24 |
MinceR | o/ | May 23 15:26 |
schestowitz | mtnd3w: are you there? | May 23 15:36 |
*schestowitz has kicked mtnd3w from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | May 23 15:37 | |
schestowitz | <oiaohm> What we are looking for in th attackers sometimes make the mistake of using there own machine. Matching source ip of an attacking machine and a machine checking if the site is up. | May 23 15:37 |
schestowitz | <oiaohm> If they make that mistake we have them. I have pm this becuase there was a person in social I could not id. | May 23 15:37 |
schestowitz | <oiaohm> Other thing attackers will sometimes come to watch the chaos. | May 23 15:37 |
schestowitz | <oiaohm> That is why I am being very careful with people I don't know. | May 23 15:37 |
schestowitz | <schestowitz> Yes, I know | May 23 15:37 |
schestowitz | <schestowitz> I have no op | May 23 15:37 |
schestowitz | I was suspicious of him all along | May 23 15:37 |
schestowitz | No name | May 23 15:37 |
schestowitz | Was here a few days ago too | May 23 15:37 |
oiaohm | squid@cpe-74-65-216-135.nyc.res.rr.com (squid) redircting through proxy as well. | May 23 15:38 |
schestowitz | Ha | May 23 15:38 |
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schestowitz | Yes, I noticed that | May 23 15:38 |
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oiaohm | That is what got my attention his user got flaged here. | May 23 15:39 |
schestowitz | mib_l1qrm7: hi | May 23 15:40 |
_Hicham_ | no more tolerance schestowitz | May 23 15:42 |
schestowitz | Different IP | May 23 15:42 |
_Hicham_ | anyone suspicious->ban | May 23 15:42 |
oiaohm | No _Hicham_ this is open channel. | May 23 15:42 |
schestowitz | mib_l1qrm7: Are you there? | May 23 15:42 |
oiaohm | We need a registed channel non open. | May 23 15:42 |
oiaohm | Ie invite only to talk about the problems. | May 23 15:43 |
oiaohm | That will close risk of planing leaking. | May 23 15:44 |
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schestowitz | Gone now | May 23 15:46 |
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schestowitz | Does anyone know how to make Chanserv? | May 23 15:47 |
schestowitz | ReverseGTR seems to be very proficient with RIC | May 23 15:47 |
schestowitz | *IRC | May 23 15:47 |
ReverseGTR | schestowitz, um, I always thought it just depended on the channel name on whether a Chanserv option was granted or not | May 23 15:48 |
schestowitz | Oh, I see.. | May 23 15:48 |
ReverseGTR | schestowitz, such as how channels that start with ## usually have no Chanserv | May 23 15:48 |
schestowitz | We need an op in #boycottnovell-social | May 23 15:49 |
ReverseGTR | schestowitz, oping 2 channels is too much for one person? :P | May 23 15:49 |
MinceR | see /chanserv help register for help on how to register channels | May 23 15:50 |
schestowitz | It's already registered I think | May 23 15:50 |
MinceR | and /chanserv help flags on how to set user-specific attributes on registered channels | May 23 15:50 |
MinceR | yes, it's registered | May 23 15:51 |
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oiaohm | I am off to bed. | May 23 15:57 |
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_Hicham_ | schestowitz : you are an op in #boycottnovell-secret | May 23 16:07 |
schestowitz | Nope | May 23 16:08 |
schestowitz | Not there even | May 23 16:08 |
schestowitz | We can use the existing channel | May 23 16:08 |
_Hicham_ | boycottnovell-social? | May 23 16:08 |
schestowitz | Yes | May 23 16:09 |
_Hicham_ | are u sure u r not an op? | May 23 16:15 |
_Hicham_ | boycottnovell-social is registered to u | May 23 16:16 |
_Hicham_ | so u r an op automatically | May 23 16:17 |
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schestowitz | _Hicham_: I have been registrar since March | May 23 16:21 |
schestowitz | Just never needed to deal with intruders | May 23 16:21 |
DaemonFC | I was reading about firewalls and remembered my old ISP a several years ago that pinged me every few hours and if my system didn't respond, then they'd boot me off | May 23 16:29 |
DaemonFC | so I called them and they told me to disable any firewall I might be using | May 23 16:29 |
DaemonFC | so I asked for their cancellation department | May 23 16:29 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 23 16:29 |
schestowitz | Heh. | May 23 16:30 |
schestowitz | Well, there should be legislation around OSes too | May 23 16:30 |
schestowitz | And ensuring people secure theirs | May 23 16:30 |
DaemonFC | this book is talking about Microsoft Usability Research Group, mostly making fun of how much money they throw away designing solutions for idiots that can't use a computer | May 23 16:32 |
DaemonFC | but turning out to make them harder to use | May 23 16:32 |
DaemonFC | turns out Aero Glass was supposed to be a usability feature | May 23 16:32 |
DaemonFC | because lots of people have trouble with the concept of overlapping windows | May 23 16:33 |
DaemonFC | then the Personalized Menus in the classic start menu and office that caused about half the items to disappear so nobody could find them | May 23 16:34 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 23 16:34 |
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_Goblin | hi all | May 23 16:34 |
schestowitz | Hey | May 23 16:34 |
_Goblin | how the bank holiday weekend faring? | May 23 16:35 |
schestowitz | So far a little dossy | May 23 16:35 |
_Goblin | lol...yep me too shirked all my duties today | May 23 16:36 |
a lot DDoSy | May 23 16:37 | |
good morning | May 23 16:37 | |
schestowitz | *nods* | May 23 16:37 |
schestowitz | Got to love freedom of speech, eh? | May 23 16:37 |
yes | May 23 16:37 | |
it gets a little irritating, wading through the Windows users here who crap on X, GCC, GNU, Ubuntu and just about everything but Windows. | May 23 16:38 | |
IRC flooded with crap, BN blown off the internet. | May 23 16:40 | |
someone believes in disrupting free speech because their products can't compete. | May 23 16:40 | |
DaemonFC | speaking of full of it........ | May 23 16:40 |
DaemonFC | nevermind | May 23 16:40 |
No need to name anyone, FC, the logs speak for themselves. | May 23 16:41 | |
DaemonFC | good morning twit | May 23 16:41 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 23 16:41 |
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schestowitz | DaemonFC: Look who runs the show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXajXz4DF1w&feature=related | May 23 16:44 |
DaemonFC | yeah, he lost | May 23 16:44 |
DaemonFC | if I remember correctly | May 23 16:45 |
DaemonFC | actually, he lost before his party's candidate lost | May 23 16:45 |
DaemonFC | the first round usually gets rid of the fringe nutjobs | May 23 16:45 |
DaemonFC | yes, there's worse than Bush | May 23 16:45 |
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DaemonFC | basically people like Huckabee are unelectable because they're too religious | May 23 16:47 |
FBI hit by W32 viruses. http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20090521/ap_on_hi_te/us_feds_computer_virus | May 23 16:47 | |
DaemonFC | Bush had that perfect mix of born again Christian, stupid, and free money for rich people | May 23 16:47 |
and these are the people who are supposed to chase down botnets | May 23 16:47 | |
running Windows is the root cause of the problem. | May 23 16:48 | |
schestowitz | Scary... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEZITdTFfPY&feature=related | May 23 16:48 |
FBI should know better | May 23 16:48 | |
DaemonFC | no, users are always where it breaks down | May 23 16:48 |
but they contribute to the problem instead. | May 23 16:48 | |
DaemonFC | if you gave Linux to the masses, there'd be viruses and trojans | May 23 16:48 |
If the FBI can't secure Windows, no one can. duh. | May 23 16:48 | |
DaemonFC | no, the FBI has humans working there | May 23 16:49 |
DaemonFC | and humans make mistakes and can be tricked | May 23 16:49 |
humans without free software might as well be machines. | May 23 16:49 | |
DaemonFC | that's what a torjan horse does | May 23 16:49 |
DaemonFC | replacing it with Linux still leaves the largest problem intact | May 23 16:49 |
DaemonFC | the user | May 23 16:49 |
your skull is 5cm thick, FC. | May 23 16:50 | |
DaemonFC | people just unbox a computer and start clicking on shit | May 23 16:50 |
DaemonFC | they don't read the manual, they don't take precautions | May 23 16:50 |
DaemonFC | that attitude would make Linux insecure too | May 23 16:50 |
lol | May 23 16:50 | |
did you see the Heart's install screen shots? | May 23 16:51 | |
DaemonFC | organized crime, trojan horses, and people | May 23 16:51 |
DaemonFC | Linux wouldn't change any of that | May 23 16:51 |
well kept repositories take care of the problems you are talking about. | May 23 16:51 | |
DaemonFC | having an overabundance of any particular type of machine with a broad spectrum of users | May 23 16:51 |
DaemonFC | will cause trouble | May 23 16:51 |
making that the path of least resistance insures people get clean software. | May 23 16:51 | |
DaemonFC | no they don't | May 23 16:51 |
DaemonFC | there's always stuff you can't get in the repository | May 23 16:52 |
DaemonFC | and as long as you have to go running software and stuff from wherever | May 23 16:52 |
DaemonFC | then you can run into this | May 23 16:52 |
M$ has been working on that. Got any examples? | May 23 16:52 | |
DaemonFC | there's also the problem of repository tampering | May 23 16:52 |
DaemonFC | like when those people stole the Fedora signing key | May 23 16:52 |
DaemonFC | and manipulated their repo | May 23 16:52 |
so rare, so easily fixed | May 23 16:53 | |
DaemonFC | you can't trust the software just because it came from a certain place | May 23 16:53 |
DaemonFC | no, they didn't notice it for days | May 23 16:53 |
DaemonFC | if that was a malicious person, they could have spread a worm to millions of Fedora boxes | May 23 16:53 |
right, you can trust it because it can be inspected and is | May 23 16:53 | |
DaemonFC | and those people, using Linux, would have had their nose honked | May 23 16:53 |
DaemonFC | and their underwear pulled over their head | May 23 16:53 |
DaemonFC | with no preventative measures possible | May 23 16:53 |
dream on | May 23 16:54 | |
has not happened and won't | May 23 16:54 | |
DaemonFC | because their Fedora machiens would all automaticalyl download the virus | May 23 16:54 |
DaemonFC | and yes it could easily happen just like that | May 23 16:54 |
DaemonFC | there's a million ways to infect a Linux system | May 23 16:54 |
DaemonFC | and nobody has really bothered because Windows and Mac are 99% of the market | May 23 16:54 |
schestowitz | Sarah Palin Family Meeting < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLJS9yoHQms&feature=related > | May 23 16:54 |
DaemonFC | most viruses aren't written for the hell of it, they're written for profit, by organized crime | May 23 16:55 |
DaemonFC | mostly the Russian Mafia | May 23 16:55 |
schestowitz | Lies, lies, lies.... | May 23 16:55 |
FC is full of so many of them | May 23 16:56 | |
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DaemonFC | when Linux has a 90% market and the viruses are all made for it because it's profitable to do that now | May 23 16:56 |
DaemonFC | get back to me | May 23 16:56 |
_Goblin | ok... | May 23 16:56 |
DaemonFC | I wouldn't work 300% harder for 1% of the profit | May 23 16:57 |
DaemonFC | would you? | May 23 16:57 |
_Goblin | the ms faithful have claimed for years linux hasnt gotten past 1.8% so we have nothing to worry about then | May 23 16:57 |
DaemonFC | would you work 120 hours for a 20 minute paycheck? | May 23 16:57 |
DaemonFC | that's where Linux is right now | May 23 16:57 |
DaemonFC | that's what keeps Linux safe | May 23 16:57 |
_Goblin | if the 20 min paycheck was david beckhams then probably. | May 23 16:57 |
DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JyvkjSKMLw&feature=related | May 23 16:59 |
ugh http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/22/1714245&art_pos=8 | May 23 16:59 | |
DaemonFC | Ron Paul is also a moron | May 23 16:59 |
DaemonFC | but that's no secret | May 23 16:59 |
Houston airport has video on the toilets. | May 23 16:59 | |
gross | May 23 16:59 | |
_Goblin | I think the best thing about Linux not having the penetration of Windows is that we dont have a digital slug as the OS tries to be jack of all trades to millions of users... | May 23 17:00 |
DaemonFC | it's funny to pull his string and watch him spout off for the next hour | May 23 17:00 |
DaemonFC | well, when Linux gets all the Walmart customers | May 23 17:00 |
someone needs to frost the glass, so that it works as designed not as big brother | May 23 17:00 | |
DaemonFC | and you start getting trojans | May 23 17:00 |
DaemonFC | and viruses | May 23 17:00 |
DaemonFC | and worms\ | May 23 17:00 |
DaemonFC | then yes, it will be a cesspool like WIndows | May 23 17:00 |
_Goblin | my dog had worms, nothing to do with Vista though. | May 23 17:00 |
you spout all night, regardless FC | May 23 17:01 | |
DaemonFC | my point is the malware will follow the OS that gets those kinds of people | May 23 17:01 |
DaemonFC | most of them couldn't even figure out how to put a Linux CD in the tray | May 23 17:01 |
yes, you have stated your point again and again without evidence beyond your opinion. | May 23 17:01 | |
counter examples abound | May 23 17:01 | |
Apple | May 23 17:02 | |
_Goblin | talking of malware, is there any update on the Vista 7 three app limit removal? | May 23 17:02 |
DaemonFC | well, Linux is an insignificant group of opt-in users that went out of their way to get it | May 23 17:02 |
DaemonFC | and probably know what to do with it | May 23 17:02 |
banks using GNU/Linux | May 23 17:02 | |
DaemonFC | Windows is just kind of THERE | May 23 17:02 |
etc, | May 23 17:02 | |
DaemonFC | Windows is you go buy a PC, it's there | May 23 17:02 |
You would think people would rob banks directly if what you said was true. | May 23 17:02 | |
_Goblin | not if the EU get their way (IMO) | May 23 17:03 |
if all OS and users are equal, lol | May 23 17:03 | |
DaemonFC | If you opened up a box and every one of those boxes had Ubuntu | May 23 17:03 |
DaemonFC | there would be viruses for Ubuntu | May 23 17:03 |
DaemonFC | cause the know nothings that buy cheap systems would have that | May 23 17:03 |
Noes, FC, you said people buy Windows because they want to, not because it's there. | May 23 17:03 | |
DaemonFC | no, people buy Windows because they don't know they're buying it | May 23 17:04 |
DaemonFC | to them it's not good or bad, it's part of the computer | May 23 17:04 |
DaemonFC | and they got it for free | May 23 17:04 |
Like the FBI. | May 23 17:04 | |
DaemonFC | (in their mind) | May 23 17:04 |
_Goblin | rubbish...even the average user was slagging the turkey Vista..they know exactly... | May 23 17:04 |
_Goblin | nowadays the average user is far more savvy than before | May 23 17:04 |
I'm sure they have no idea what they were buying. That's why they are virused out now. | May 23 17:04 | |
DaemonFC | no, they had a conniption because it wasn't XP | May 23 17:04 |
_Goblin | you are talking about the 90's | May 23 17:05 |
_Goblin | maybe | May 23 17:05 |
DaemonFC | they had a conniption with XP cause it wasn't 98 | May 23 17:05 |
DaemonFC | they had a conniption with 98 cause it wasn't 95..... | May 23 17:05 |
It was all those idiot users at the FBI. Blame the user. | May 23 17:05 | |
DaemonFC | people always get over it and continue to use it | May 23 17:05 |
DaemonFC | you notice a 20 year pattern here? | May 23 17:05 |
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the pattern is increasing resistance to and rejection of 20 year old software. | May 23 17:06 | |
DaemonFC | now Linux has been around for 18 of those years | May 23 17:06 |
DaemonFC | it's almost as old as NT | May 23 17:06 |
_Goblin | and still here | May 23 17:06 |
and growing | May 23 17:06 | |
_Goblin | and more popular than anytime in its history | May 23 17:06 |
while M$ earnings tank | May 23 17:06 | |
DaemonFC | yeah, but it's not making any inroads into user acceptance | May 23 17:07 |
DaemonFC | it got kicked off the shelves for non-sales | May 23 17:07 |
your acceptance | May 23 17:07 | |
_Goblin | a bit like vista | May 23 17:07 |
how GNU/Linux go kicked off Walmart shelves | May 23 17:08 | |
DaemonFC | Dude, where's all my hardware drivers? | May 23 17:08 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 23 17:08 |
DaemonFC | no, it's been kicked out of Staples, Best Buy | May 23 17:08 |
DaemonFC | Walmart | May 23 17:08 |
DaemonFC | Circuit City | May 23 17:08 |
DaemonFC | Frys | May 23 17:08 |
DaemonFC | CompUSA | May 23 17:08 |
http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/221041 | May 23 17:08 | |
_Goblin | A little like the Zune compared to the Ipod then? | May 23 17:09 |
DaemonFC | Linux is the Zune of operating systems? | May 23 17:09 |
CompUSA is bankrupt | May 23 17:09 | |
DaemonFC | did you jsut say that? | May 23 17:09 |
_Goblin | its you saying that. | May 23 17:09 |
that's what happens when you fight your users | May 23 17:09 | |
M$FT is next | May 23 17:09 | |
_Goblin | no summer picknic for MS employees | May 23 17:09 |
_Goblin | no bar at redmond | May 23 17:09 |
_Goblin | and a big BSOD for a few thousand employees | May 23 17:10 |
_Goblin | alls well at Microsoft ?!?!!! | May 23 17:10 |
how M$ tries to beat GNU/Linux in schools http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/12/2116230 | May 23 17:10 | |
_Goblin | MS has lost the console battle | May 23 17:10 |
DaemonFC | Linux is like something that never hurts MS | May 23 17:10 |
_Goblin | MS has lost the respect in Mobile OS | May 23 17:10 |
DaemonFC | and never goes away | May 23 17:10 |
_Goblin | MS has lost out to the Ipod. | May 23 17:11 |
DaemonFC | it doesn't cost Linux anything to stay standing forever | May 23 17:11 |
_Goblin | MS has EU issues | May 23 17:11 |
more importantly, M$ has lost their reputation. everyone thinks they suck. | May 23 17:11 | |
_Goblin | it goes on and on. | May 23 17:11 |
DaemonFC | so it will probably be around a long time | May 23 17:11 |
but FC | May 23 17:11 | |
_Goblin | Oh and dont have the surname "gaywood" or youll be kicked off Xbox live. | May 23 17:11 |
_Goblin | great PR there | May 23 17:11 |
_Goblin | a little bit like the sweaty ballmer prancing around the stage | May 23 17:12 |
_Goblin | or throwing chairs | May 23 17:12 |
DaemonFC | because people use it as an insult | May 23 17:12 |
DaemonFC | and they should be kicked off | May 23 17:12 |
_Goblin | and I nearly forgot, the out of court settlement for the Microsoft employee who claimed homophobic attack by other staff members | May 23 17:13 |
DaemonFC | actually, they shouldn't allow that in a user name | May 23 17:13 |
_Goblin | ? it was his surname. | May 23 17:13 |
DaemonFC | because there's very few legitimate uses for the word in a user name | May 23 17:13 |
DaemonFC | other than some bigot taunting people | May 23 17:13 |
_Goblin | but it was his name. | May 23 17:13 |
DaemonFC | well, how the hell do they know that? | May 23 17:14 |
DaemonFC | You know what that looks like | May 23 17:14 |
DaemonFC | it's not appropriate | May 23 17:14 |
_Goblin | he proved it (there was an article/interview on it) | May 23 17:14 |
DaemonFC | still | May 23 17:14 |
DaemonFC | begging for abuse | May 23 17:14 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: stop trolling | May 23 17:14 |
_Goblin | The card that billed the account was in the name | May 23 17:14 |
DaemonFC | what? Because Microsoft did the right thing? | May 23 17:14 |
schestowitz | You'll be kicked for it, having made death wishes yesterday | May 23 17:14 |
DaemonFC | and threw someone off for having a name that was also a slur? | May 23 17:14 |
_Goblin | its not a slur if its his surname. | May 23 17:15 |
_Goblin | and nobody else believed it was either | May 23 17:15 |
DaemonFC | and if they didn't there'd be articles saying that they allowed that filth on their service | May 23 17:15 |
_Goblin | its called maturity | May 23 17:15 |
DaemonFC | catch-22 | May 23 17:15 |
_Goblin | no there wouldnt as long as it was his real name. | May 23 17:15 |
ugh, Slashdot swallowed the US Army Vista story uncritically. http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/22/2228245&art_pos=13 | May 23 17:15 | |
DaemonFC | What if my last name was Niggerman | May 23 17:16 |
DaemonFC | should MS allow that too? | May 23 17:16 |
DaemonFC | that's what you're saying | May 23 17:16 |
compare to http://slashdot.org/submission/1006103/US-Army-Moves-to-Vista | May 23 17:16 | |
_Goblin | would you ban people from using their name Jesus because it offends christians? | May 23 17:16 |
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I think it's time to kick FC | May 23 17:16 | |
DaemonFC | why? cause MS won't allow slurs | May 23 17:17 |
DaemonFC | and I say good? | May 23 17:17 |
DaemonFC | oh, it's OK til someone offends you | May 23 17:17 |
DaemonFC | right? | May 23 17:17 |
I see where you are going | May 23 17:17 | |
DaemonFC | then you'll be bitching to someone | May 23 17:17 |
_Goblin | listen, Ive had to challenge the MS faithful many times on MS watch over homophobia. I do not believe the surname offensive because its his real name. | May 23 17:17 |
DaemonFC | no, why don't I insult your race, gender, religion, or sexuality? | May 23 17:18 |
DaemonFC | take your pick | May 23 17:18 |
DaemonFC | I'm well within my rights, right? | May 23 17:18 |
DaemonFC | as much as that guy with that screen name was | May 23 17:18 |
_Goblin | Daemon, Im an adult..If I was offended by what people said I wouldnt post online. | May 23 17:18 |
_Goblin | you can say what you want | May 23 17:18 |
DaemonFC | you won't be defending it when it's you | May 23 17:18 |
DaemonFC | oh sure, nobody is terrorizing you, personally | May 23 17:19 |
_Goblin | ? | May 23 17:19 |
DaemonFC | so it's easy to blow something like this off | May 23 17:19 |
_Goblin | lol | May 23 17:19 |
_Goblin | yeah ive not had any slurs against me.... | May 23 17:19 |
_Goblin | of course.... | May 23 17:19 |
_Goblin | Im an adult....grow up daemon | May 23 17:19 |
DaemonFC | maybe biologically | May 23 17:20 |
DaemonFC | but you're about as mature as a 4 year old | May 23 17:20 |
_Goblin | here we go, this will be good | May 23 17:20 |
DaemonFC | seriously, like, fart and poop jokes level of mentality | May 23 17:20 |
_Goblin | give me an example. | May 23 17:20 |
_Goblin | where. | May 23 17:20 |
tacone | wow | May 23 17:20 |
Verrizon let's man die over $20 bill. http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/22/225259&art_pos=15 | May 23 17:20 | |
tacone | can I flame with you guys ? | May 23 17:21 |
DaemonFC | you have no idea what it's like to be harassed | May 23 17:21 |
_Goblin | ? | May 23 17:21 |
_Goblin | come on daemon give examples | May 23 17:21 |
Funny how the same company had no problems violating privacy for Bush | May 23 17:21 | |
DaemonFC | so obviously you have no empathy towards others | May 23 17:21 |
_Goblin | daemon, give examples of my "fart and poop" jokes? | May 23 17:21 |
tacone | twitter: wanna join the flame ? | May 23 17:21 |
_Goblin | just one example Daemon, thats all... | May 23 17:22 |
cool lawyer http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/22/1951237&art_pos=17 | May 23 17:22 | |
you guys can keep the flames to yourselves, or better yet take them elsewhere. | May 23 17:23 | |
I'm content telling FC his skull is 5cm thick. | May 23 17:23 | |
DaemonFC | I've dealt with people like you | May 23 17:24 |
DaemonFC | you're just lucky you're not here | May 23 17:24 |
_Goblin | Im sure - Moving on, the PB case (pending appeal) I think shows people are flogging a dead horse. | May 23 17:26 |
looks like a threat of violence, FC. I am glad I'm not there. | May 23 17:26 | |
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Roy, you are a Palm fan? What's going on here http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/22/1621243&art_pos=23 | May 23 17:27 | |
DaemonFC | http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/23/1459230 | May 23 17:29 |
DaemonFC | lmao | May 23 17:29 |
the nightmare that Windows programing is http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/22/157245&art_pos=25 | May 23 17:30 | |
DaemonFC | they probably shut it off to stop viruses | May 23 17:30 |
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neighborlee | mono intrusion | May 23 17:31 |
neighborlee | http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=221769&highlight=mono | May 23 17:31 |
neighborlee | 'SElinux GUI' requires mono as dependency.. | May 23 17:31 |
tacone | woha ! | May 23 17:31 |
-> What does this say for the wisdom of non-US citizens relying on US companies for their business or communication? | May 23 17:31 | |
what indeed? | May 23 17:32 | |
DaemonFC | fuck em | May 23 17:32 |
DaemonFC | honestly | May 23 17:32 |
DaemonFC | viruses and jihad | May 23 17:32 |
at least a US company in Redmond. | May 23 17:32 | |
DaemonFC | woohoo | May 23 17:32 |
tacone | happy ubuntu uses appArmor then | May 23 17:32 |
DaemonFC | Crapparmor | May 23 17:32 |
tacone | wait | May 23 17:33 |
tacone | it's just the admin panel | May 23 17:33 |
DaemonFC | there's a reason Novell tossed their development team | May 23 17:33 |
tacone | did they refuse to use mono ? | May 23 17:33 |
DaemonFC | and the only service Ubuntu uses that flimsy non-protection on is CUPS anyway | May 23 17:33 |
DaemonFC | it's weak | May 23 17:33 |
Adobe whips out DMCA against free software http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/22/1254246&art_pos=29 | May 23 17:35 | |
DaemonFC | yay | May 23 17:35 |
DaemonFC | maybe people will stop seeing Adobe as their saviour | May 23 17:35 |
DaemonFC | they never have been | May 23 17:35 |
while Opera CEO sees HTML 5 as flash replacement http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/22/1634215&art_pos=20 | May 23 17:36 | |
silentivm | Adobe sucks :) | May 23 17:36 |
DaemonFC | it's not | May 23 17:36 |
MinceR | i'd like to know why opera likes adobe | May 23 17:36 |
DaemonFC | HTML 5 is nowhere near as advanced as Flash | May 23 17:36 |
ps and pdf were reasonable formats | May 23 17:36 | |
DaemonFC | it's an FLV replacement maybe | May 23 17:36 |
MinceR | pdf is not a reasonable format | May 23 17:36 |
it is sad that Adobe acts like this | May 23 17:37 | |
MinceR | it's a crap reinvention of ps | May 23 17:37 |
MinceR | with marketing that claims it can do things it can't and that it's something it isn't | May 23 17:37 |
and gsgl probably would have been best | May 23 17:37 | |
just the same pdf works for me | May 23 17:37 | |
MinceR | i've seen lots of incompatibilities about pdf | May 23 17:37 |
better than Silverlight ever will | May 23 17:37 | |
DaemonFC | Flash can create all kinds of web apps | May 23 17:38 |
MinceR | the "portable" document format isn't portable at all | May 23 17:38 |
DaemonFC | HTML 5 can play music and video files | May 23 17:38 |
I've yet to run into a pdf portability problem | May 23 17:38 | |
probably because I don't use Windows | May 23 17:38 | |
MinceR | i have a couple pdfs where the uppercase "A" in a certain font shows in adobe reader and foxit but not in any poppler-based viewer | May 23 17:38 |
so many problems go away that way | May 23 17:38 | |
MinceR | i have a pdf i generated with latex where the fonts start being condensed from a certain character when viewed in okular | May 23 17:39 |
MinceR | but not when viewed in evince | May 23 17:39 |
font problems.... hmmm that should not happen | May 23 17:39 | |
MinceR | well it shouldn't but it does | May 23 17:40 |
until svg works as a reasonable replacement, I'll have to stick to pdf with eps graphics | May 23 17:40 | |
schestowitz | neighborlee: thanks for the pointer | May 23 17:40 |
neighborlee | schestowitz: anytime ;)),,thx for listening... | May 23 17:41 |
erosion of 4th amendment http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/22/0622222&art_pos=31 | May 23 17:43 | |
tacone | yeah, pretty scaring stuff | May 23 17:43 |
tacone | (the selinux admin gui in mono) | May 23 17:43 |
DaemonFC | yeah, and I'll shoot them | May 23 17:45 |
DaemonFC | as unlawful trespassers in my home | May 23 17:45 |
DaemonFC | so I'd really like to see them try | May 23 17:45 |
DaemonFC | "Due to the fact that Syria is currently classified as a state sponsor of terrorism by the US government, we are unable to provide services to individuals located in this nation," said Christine Jones, the head of the GoDaddy's legal team. | May 23 17:46 |
DaemonFC | like......... | May 23 17:46 |
DaemonFC | accepting his payment for a domain name? | May 23 17:46 |
LOL, requiring mono for SELinux GUI. | May 23 17:46 | |
DaemonFC | in the first place? | May 23 17:46 |
that's like putting a Windows box inside your super secure OpenBSD data repository and using it to admin the place | May 23 17:47 | |
DaemonFC | OpenBSD is pointless | May 23 17:48 |
DaemonFC | and they cheat in determining vulnerabilities | May 23 17:48 |
DaemonFC | their default setup has almost nothing turned on | May 23 17:49 |
DaemonFC | by the time you get a functional server you have pretty much all the problems of the other BSDs | May 23 17:49 |
DaemonFC | I'd just use FreeBSD and have done with it | May 23 17:50 |
DaemonFC | their blob stripping policy may or may not have any security impact | May 23 17:52 |
DaemonFC | but it will cause less hardware to work | May 23 17:52 |
DaemonFC | I can understand removing those if you don't need them though | May 23 17:52 |
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MinceR | so have they fixed their unicode support already? :> | May 23 17:54 |
DaemonFC | it's been a while since I've used it | May 23 17:55 |
DaemonFC | it's OK if you want to use it as a router or something | May 23 17:55 |
DaemonFC | I've set it up like that | May 23 17:55 |
DaemonFC | I have a strong preference for FreeBSD though | May 23 17:55 |
DaemonFC | for a workstation | May 23 17:56 |
MinceR | i mean freebsd | May 23 17:56 |
DaemonFC | works fine for me | May 23 17:56 |
DaemonFC | I have the 7.2 branch | May 23 17:56 |
MinceR | http://pod.tst.eu/http://cvs.schmorp.de/rxvt-unicode/doc/rxvt.7.pod#I_am_on_FreeBSD_and_rxvt_unicode_doe | May 23 17:57 |
DaemonFC | hmmmm | May 23 17:58 |
DaemonFC | I've never seen any issues, but that's me | May 23 17:58 |
DaemonFC | the first system I had was FreeBSD 6 dual booting on my XP box | May 23 17:59 |
MinceR | then there was the bug in the em driver which caused watchdog timeouts | May 23 18:00 |
DaemonFC | every OS will have bugs | May 23 18:02 |
DaemonFC | but Linux is a bit lax | May 23 18:03 |
DaemonFC | takes the attitude of "We'll fix them whenever" | May 23 18:03 |
DaemonFC | you'll notice that with every kernel release | May 23 18:03 |
DaemonFC | because releases are not meant to be long lived anyway and point releases can take care of some of the obvious stuff | May 23 18:04 |
DaemonFC | FreeBSD releases are meant to have the worst stuff fixed before it's declared Release | May 23 18:05 |
MinceR | freebsd takes the attitude of hype | May 23 18:05 |
MinceR | and the rc system is crap | May 23 18:06 |
MinceR | i think i've mentioned the time when i tried to get mysql to work on freebsd 5 | May 23 18:06 |
MinceR | and the official docs were useless because freebsd does everything its own way, but had no docs of its own | May 23 18:07 |
MinceR | and the freebsd packages were unusable | May 23 18:07 |
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Balrog_ | MinceR: you mean OpenRC? | May 23 18:21 |
Balrog_ | I use that on gentoo; works well | May 23 18:21 |
MinceR | i mean the crap that puts half the system under /usr/local | May 23 18:22 |
schestowitz | Camera grid to log number plates < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/whos_watching_you/8064333.stm > | May 23 18:22 |
schestowitz | There's no ending | May 23 18:23 |
schestowitz | Any evidence this actually reduces crime? | May 23 18:23 |
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DaemonFC | none whatsoever | May 23 18:27 |
DaemonFC | it's an excuse to put cameras up | May 23 18:27 |
schestowitz | Judge Apparently Thinks He Can Tell Newspaper Which Photos It Can Use < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090522/0250034974.shtml > | May 23 18:40 |
schestowitz | _Goblin: you there? | May 23 18:44 |
DaemonFC | When he was an upstanding legislator? | May 23 18:45 |
DaemonFC | was that before or after the tax cheating? | May 23 18:45 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 23 18:45 |
schestowitz | You mention Thom Holwerda in http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/goblins-anti-microsoft-soapbox/ . Well, he's pro-MS in many ways and some readers including myself ditched OS News when he became a Windows booster | May 23 18:45 |
_Goblin | yep im here | May 23 18:53 |
_Goblin | for a few minutes | May 23 18:53 |
_Goblin | going out for dinner | May 23 18:53 |
_Goblin | yeah I tried to engage Thom before.. | May 23 18:54 |
schestowitz | Won't work | May 23 18:54 |
_Goblin | hes a dodgy little begger (IMO) | May 23 18:54 |
schestowitz | "Workfix" | May 23 18:54 |
_Goblin | I think the only thing more silly than his opinions are his sunglasses | May 23 18:55 |
_Goblin | ill give it a go though | May 23 18:55 |
_Goblin | right off out for dinner with the wife.... | May 23 18:56 |
_Goblin | lovely little country pub in our village... | May 23 18:56 |
_Goblin | see you later | May 23 18:56 |
schestowitz | Goblins? | May 23 18:56 |
schestowitz | Trolls? | May 23 18:56 |
schestowitz | Gargoyles? | May 23 18:56 |
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schestowitz | Criminal company < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phioe4DGu5E&feature=related > Gives MSFT high rating http://www.marketwatch.com/m/Story/b7fd3f80-2c8f-4d03-89fc-07a2047bb978 | May 23 19:01 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft is trying to sell debt bonds :P | May 23 19:04 |
DaemonFC | http://slashdot.org/submission/1006009/Microsoft-to-remove-3-app-limit-on-Starter-edition | May 23 19:06 |
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DaemonFC | http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/blogs/bizfeed/165308/microsofts_kumo_just_another_search_imitator.html | May 23 19:16 |
DaemonFC | PC World isn't impressed with the new Live Search | May 23 19:16 |
schestowitz | Kumo? | May 23 19:17 |
schestowitz | Oh | May 23 19:17 |
schestowitz | Wait | May 23 19:17 |
schestowitz | You posted a link | May 23 19:17 |
schestowitz | Well, Microsoft knows it's just a rename | May 23 19:17 |
schestowitz | And some hype about that company they acuired | May 23 19:17 |
schestowitz | Make-believe 'open source' | May 23 19:17 |
schestowitz | http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/05/22/microsoft-has-cold-feet/ | May 23 19:18 |
schestowitz | Microsoft job posting talks up "Zune Mobile" < http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/05/microsoft-job-posting-talks-up-zune-mobile.ars > | May 23 19:19 |
schestowitz | But they deny it | May 23 19:19 |
schestowitz | That would end their relationship with OEMs | May 23 19:20 |
schestowitz | Big messup | May 23 19:20 |
DaemonFC | AverMedia is doing Linux drivers | May 23 19:20 |
DaemonFC | but this has traditionally been a Windows only line of TV tuners | May 23 19:21 |
DaemonFC | I'm wondering if HI get one of those models, will the drivers keep coming? | May 23 19:21 |
tacone | oem relationship have already been ended | May 23 19:21 |
DaemonFC | *I | May 23 19:21 |
schestowitz | RUMOR: Microsoft developing Zune-Xbox handheld gaming device < http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/210279/rumor-microsoft-developing-zune-xbox-handheld-gaming-device/ > | May 23 19:21 |
schestowitz | tacone: pls elaborate | May 23 19:21 |
schestowitz | It seems like old news (Zune Mobile) | May 23 19:21 |
DaemonFC | I doubt Microsoft has the expertise to do a handheld | May 23 19:21 |
tacone | schestowitz: hyperbole. | May 23 19:21 |
schestowitz | This is just an immortal rumour lasting for years | May 23 19:22 |
DaemonFC | Sony's PSP was a flop | May 23 19:22 |
schestowitz | Like Red hat being acquired | May 23 19:22 |
DaemonFC | the things aren't meant to be a powerhouse | May 23 19:22 |
tacone | schestowitz: i just have the feeling oem can't wait to get rid of microsoft | May 23 19:22 |
tacone | as much as intel | May 23 19:22 |
tacone | and about everyone else. | May 23 19:22 |
schestowitz | tacone: well, it's true | May 23 19:22 |
schestowitz | It's no feeling | May 23 19:22 |
DaemonFC | who cares if the graphics are good if the bateries die almost instantly | May 23 19:22 |
schestowitz | They SAY so | May 23 19:22 |
schestowitz | Acer CEO | May 23 19:22 |
DaemonFC | it's Game Gear 2.0 | May 23 19:22 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 23 19:22 |
schestowitz | On behalf of others | May 23 19:22 |
tacone | dell also | May 23 19:22 |
schestowitz | They want to distinguish themselves | May 23 19:22 |
schestowitz | And control margins | May 23 19:22 |
tacone | hp shipped ubuntu | May 23 19:22 |
schestowitz | MS messes with them | May 23 19:23 |
schestowitz | Forces them to buy bulk or die | May 23 19:23 |
DaemonFC | well, this is something that's going to have to work itself out | May 23 19:23 |
schestowitz | HP just corss-lic'ed again with MS | May 23 19:23 |
tacone | they can't compete with Apple with MS forcing it's ugly OS upon them | May 23 19:23 |
DaemonFC | if hardware makers aren't behind Linux then you get drivers for whatever a Linux developer has | May 23 19:23 |
schestowitz | I'm not happy about it | May 23 19:23 |
schestowitz | Could be Linux related | May 23 19:23 |
schestowitz | But it's kept secret | May 23 19:23 |
DaemonFC | to see more of that, go back about 7-8 years | May 23 19:23 |
tacone | business relationships with MS are not partner stuff. are threat vs threat. | May 23 19:24 |
schestowitz | The Rob Enderle shill writes for TGDaily again | May 23 19:24 |
schestowitz | Anti-Linux | May 23 19:24 |
DaemonFC | 7-8 years ago, you booted up Linux and had no network, video, or sound | May 23 19:24 |
schestowitz | As usual | May 23 19:24 |
schestowitz | Won't link | May 23 19:24 |
DaemonFC | now it's maybe down to TV cards and a few other devices | May 23 19:24 |
schestowitz | Day trip of the Shills Incorporated | May 23 19:24 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC said he worked for Edelman | May 23 19:25 |
schestowitz | Bunch of scum they are | May 23 19:25 |
schestowitz | Prison-worthy | May 23 19:25 |
DaemonFC | I said no such thing | May 23 19:25 |
schestowitz | Boycotted even by IDG | May 23 19:25 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: oh, sorry | May 23 19:25 |
schestowitz | They also bribed bloggers | May 23 19:25 |
schestowitz | Vista laptops | May 23 19:25 |
schestowitz | They should be treated like lobbyists and banned | May 23 19:25 |
DaemonFC | I said I was in low level management of a company that used Edelman to astroturf | May 23 19:25 |
schestowitz | Community services as gardeners would do... for just 20 years | May 23 19:25 |
DaemonFC | Walmart | May 23 19:25 |
DaemonFC | that was a couple years ago that I left them | May 23 19:26 |
schestowitz | Wal-Mart are another filthy one | May 23 19:26 |
schestowitz | But much bigger | May 23 19:26 |
schestowitz | And not IT-focused | May 23 19:26 |
DaemonFC | I got out of there as fast as I could | May 23 19:26 |
tacone | uhm: berlusconi "people vote left because they're envious" | May 23 19:26 |
tacone | lol, OT, but funny | May 23 19:26 |
DaemonFC | Walmart uses Windows all over | May 23 19:26 |
schestowitz | tacone: yeah.. | May 23 19:26 |
DaemonFC | and SCO UNIX | May 23 19:26 |
schestowitz | Hehe., | May 23 19:27 |
schestowitz | Their chief douche is not in MS | May 23 19:27 |
schestowitz | Kevin Turner | May 23 19:27 |
DaemonFC | XP Embedded on self checkouts, XP Embedded on the inventory check in/check out systems | May 23 19:27 |
schestowitz | And they bought Ballnux to add to MS' FUD weaponry | May 23 19:27 |
DaemonFC | SCO UNIX on handheld terminals | May 23 19:27 |
DaemonFC | Windows 2008 Enterprise on their store's central computer | May 23 19:28 |
DaemonFC | it was 2003 Enterprise when I left | May 23 19:28 |
schestowitz | Well, they share a lot in common with MS | May 23 19:28 |
schestowitz | It's never surprising when they align | May 23 19:28 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft's enterprise stuff is much more reliable than the stuff consumers get | May 23 19:28 |
DaemonFC | much much more | May 23 19:28 |
DaemonFC | but it's still all kinds of expensive | May 23 19:28 |
schestowitz | Both neo-nationalists so-to-speak, merciless, pretend they do it for public good. | May 23 19:28 |
schestowitz | There's a good 1-hour movie about them in Google Video | May 23 19:29 |
DaemonFC | Walmart farms out all of their IT stuff | May 23 19:29 |
DaemonFC | they actually have a contract with Microsoft to do on-site work | May 23 19:29 |
schestowitz | http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/05/18/microsoft-will-reset-cheaters-xbox-live-gamerscore/ | May 23 19:30 |
DaemonFC | but those Edelman people are scum of the scum | May 23 19:30 |
DaemonFC | they made me do union avoidance surveys | May 23 19:30 |
schestowitz | Only news for XBox this week: people banned, penalised | May 23 19:30 |
DaemonFC | profiling everyone under me | May 23 19:30 |
schestowitz | IOW, nothing new | May 23 19:30 |
schestowitz | XBox is in trouble, still | May 23 19:30 |
DaemonFC | and how likely they were to want to join a union | May 23 19:30 |
schestowitz | Losing money, losing its leaders | May 23 19:30 |
schestowitz | (still) losing money. Already lost like 6 billion | May 23 19:31 |
DaemonFC | That's the big thing at Walmart, if you say you want a union, they find a way to fire you | May 23 19:31 |
DaemonFC | it won't happen right away or for that reason (on paper) | May 23 19:31 |
DaemonFC | but you're finished :P | May 23 19:31 |
schestowitz | Yeah, not just them | May 23 19:32 |
schestowitz | The USAR | May 23 19:32 |
schestowitz | [sic] | May 23 19:32 |
DaemonFC | Edelman also comes up with union avoidance propaganda | May 23 19:32 |
schestowitz | Yes | May 23 19:32 |
DaemonFC | to feed to hourly management and employees | May 23 19:32 |
schestowitz | Daemonisation of unions | May 23 19:32 |
schestowitz | Familiar pattern | May 23 19:32 |
schestowitz | Some warn about it | May 23 19:32 |
schestowitz | "Those horrible people who protest..." | May 23 19:32 |
DaemonFC | they are truly evil people | May 23 19:32 |
schestowitz | "They disrupt our peace etc etc" | May 23 19:32 |
DaemonFC | and I'm glad I don't have to do what they tell me anymore | May 23 19:32 |
schestowitz | Well, they can DDOS you | May 23 19:33 |
schestowitz | To shut you up | May 23 19:33 |
DaemonFC | well, first of all, they were overworking me, I was doing 60+ hours a week | May 23 19:33 |
DaemonFC | standard was 48 or so they tell you | May 23 19:33 |
schestowitz | If the Internet is what you have left, then there are 'solutions' for that too | May 23 19:33 |
DaemonFC | before you go into management | May 23 19:33 |
DaemonFC | second of all, I couldn't get a decent raise | May 23 19:33 |
schestowitz | raise? | May 23 19:33 |
schestowitz | Why? | May 23 19:33 |
DaemonFC | because I told them I didn't want to relocate | May 23 19:33 |
schestowitz | They don't NEED to | May 23 19:34 |
schestowitz | So why would they? | May 23 19:34 |
schestowitz | [sarcasm] | May 23 19:34 |
schestowitz | Caterpillar did similar thing | May 23 19:34 |
schestowitz | Pardon the mention | May 23 19:34 |
DaemonFC | well, they tell you that you're supposed to get 5-6% raise a year | May 23 19:34 |
schestowitz | They did illegal things | May 23 19:34 |
schestowitz | For the first time as I understand it | May 23 19:34 |
schestowitz | Threatening to make scads (??) in SA | May 23 19:34 |
DaemonFC | but they take it down to 2% and a pay cap of $40,000 a year for not wanting to relocate | May 23 19:34 |
DaemonFC | (assistant manager) | May 23 19:34 |
schestowitz | Then extorting the workforce to stop making demands | May 23 19:34 |
schestowitz | Wal-Mart is stepping closer to communism | May 23 19:35 |
DaemonFC | so to make any money, you have to get up to co or store manager at least | May 23 19:35 |
schestowitz | Like the "one brand for a loaf of bread" situation | May 23 19:35 |
DaemonFC | or just give up and leave | May 23 19:35 |
schestowitz | There won't be supermarket | May 23 19:35 |
DaemonFC | that would be ALDI | May 23 19:35 |
schestowitz | There will be WM | May 23 19:35 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 23 19:35 |
schestowitz | Like Google | May 23 19:35 |
schestowitz | And computer (=Windows) | May 23 19:35 |
schestowitz | Black or white | May 23 19:35 |
DaemonFC | Walmart has only ever sold WIndows | May 23 19:35 |
DaemonFC | except in a few test stores | May 23 19:36 |
DaemonFC | and only on cheapass systems | May 23 19:36 |
schestowitz | Obama (elites) vs MCBush( elites) | May 23 19:36 |
DaemonFC | never the selling point, they just use Linux to get the price down $50 | May 23 19:36 |
schestowitz | They sold Linux | May 23 19:36 |
schestowitz | Then Microsoft fought it | May 23 19:36 |
schestowitz | BN has the documents that show this | May 23 19:36 |
schestowitz | Illegal | May 23 19:36 |
DaemonFC | not in box sets or on decent systems | May 23 19:36 |
schestowitz | Low-end | May 23 19:36 |
DaemonFC | exactly | May 23 19:36 |
DaemonFC | super low end | May 23 19:37 |
DaemonFC | the system was shit and the major feature was it was $200 | May 23 19:37 |
DaemonFC | it's probably better that they don't ship Linux on those systems | May 23 19:37 |
DaemonFC | they sell those motherboards complete with RAM and CPU for like $80 | May 23 19:38 |
DaemonFC | they're junk | May 23 19:38 |
DaemonFC | but they can make a basic email and web browsing system | May 23 19:38 |
DaemonFC | now they're shipping those with Ubuntu :P | May 23 19:39 |
*DaemonFC actually liked gOS slightly better | May 23 19:39 | |
schestowitz | Admission that Vista failed: Microsoft, analysts tell companies to kill Vista plans < http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=45E5512E-1A64-6A71-CE0D8CC8D6EE20C8 > | May 23 19:40 |
schestowitz | It was Linsoire | May 23 19:40 |
schestowitz | 2006 | May 23 19:40 |
DaemonFC | no, they sold both | May 23 19:40 |
DaemonFC | Linspire in 2006 | May 23 19:40 |
DaemonFC | gOS in 2008 | May 23 19:41 |
schestowitz | I know | May 23 19:41 |
schestowitz | But I have proof for 2006 sabotage from Microsoft | May 23 19:41 |
schestowitz | Part of a pattern | May 23 19:41 |
DaemonFC | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883118007 | May 23 19:43 |
DaemonFC | Gee, I wonder what that could have been trying to copy ;) | May 23 19:43 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883118010&Tpk=everex | May 23 19:43 |
DaemonFC | There's the low end crap I was talking about | May 23 19:44 |
DaemonFC | heh, recertified crap | May 23 19:44 |
DaemonFC | I hold in my hand, the paper PROVING that the last owner hated it as much as I probably will :) | May 23 19:44 |
DaemonFC | hehe | May 23 19:44 |
crude attacks, FC | May 23 19:45 | |
do you have anything nice to say about free software? | May 23 19:45 | |
schestowitz | Report: Russian group offers $200M to Facebook < http://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/stories/2009/05/18/daily84.html > | May 23 19:45 |
schestowitz | twitter: not really | May 23 19:45 |
schestowitz | Rarely | May 23 19:45 |
schestowitz | but he occasionally have criticism against Microsoft | May 23 19:46 |
DaemonFC | it's not a criticism of Linux | May 23 19:46 |
DaemonFC | it's that that system sucks | May 23 19:46 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: the consensus here is clear. Don't gravitate to agitation of violence. | May 23 19:46 |
DaemonFC | the hardware is barely capable of doing anything | May 23 19:46 |
schestowitz | I remember having to kick you the first day because many people asked for it. You were trolling maddingly | May 23 19:46 |
DaemonFC | so it's crippled out of the box and they're using it as a vessel so that people don't like Linux | May 23 19:46 |
looking at the Vista failure link | May 23 19:47 | |
DaemonFC | well, I think they use these extremely low end systems with Linux as a point of entry | May 23 19:47 |
DaemonFC | to get you looking at the big powerful systems they put Windows on | May 23 19:48 |
DaemonFC | oldest retail trick in the book | May 23 19:48 |
I think that's the third or fourth such admission from M$ | May 23 19:48 | |
schestowitz | Incompetence+vapourware: Microsoft: Exchange 2007 SP2 required for interop with Exchange 2010 < http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=2834 > | May 23 19:48 |
schestowitz | More lockinware for companies | May 23 19:48 |
yes, FC, it's an upsel. but it can be done with free software too - the retailer does not make any extra money with Windows. | May 23 19:49 | |
schestowitz | The machines sold at these shops are low-end because they are for new users | May 23 19:49 |
DaemonFC | You go to Walmart and at the end of the aisle they have the $30 microwave with no features and no name, and then the whole point it to get you to look at the better models of microwaves without worrying about the price | May 23 19:49 |
schestowitz | For the most part | May 23 19:49 |
except for repairs | May 23 19:49 | |
schestowitz | They sold WELL | May 23 19:49 |
DaemonFC | the Linux computer is likewise there to soften the buyer up | May 23 19:49 |
DaemonFC | for the models with better hardware | May 23 19:49 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: I don't think Microsoft cares that Walmart is selling them | May 23 19:50 |
except that that Linux was what they were buying | May 23 19:50 | |
DaemonFC | Microsoft probably asked them to sell those Linux systems | May 23 19:50 |
did you see the journal article I posted with their hit list email FC? | May 23 19:50 | |
they cared enough to waste a whole team on it. | May 23 19:50 | |
DaemonFC | No name PC, tiny amount of RAM, slow no name CPU, integrated video, no expansion port......hardly quality | May 23 19:50 |
*tacone has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | May 23 19:51 | |
DaemonFC | then the next feature Linux! | May 23 19:51 |
you know, money that could have been spent making software or something. | May 23 19:51 | |
DaemonFC | not putting Linux in the best of light here | May 23 19:51 |
that GNU/Linux thrives on such low end systems is very good light | May 23 19:51 | |
DaemonFC | if I was Microsoft, I would fund the rollout of those Linux systems | May 23 19:52 |
DaemonFC | for the point of making Windows look better | May 23 19:52 |
It works better than windows on much better hardware, what could be better than that? | May 23 19:52 | |
DaemonFC | cause Linux still performs badly on that hardware | May 23 19:52 |
DaemonFC | where there's a big powerful Vista system next to it | May 23 19:52 |
of course, you are not M$ (are you?) and that's not what they did at all | May 23 19:52 | |
DaemonFC | you throw enough hardware at Windows, it works fine | May 23 19:52 |
DaemonFC | they're just using slight of hand | May 23 19:52 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: do your homework, DaemonFC | May 23 19:53 |
schestowitz | Microsoft was nervous about it | May 23 19:53 |
schestowitz | It still is | May 23 19:53 |
Well, they did make a pact with OEMs to cripple netbook displays, cpu, memory and other stuff | May 23 19:53 | |
DaemonFC | but a low end system is slow no matter what you use | May 23 19:53 |
schestowitz | Linux is theirt #1 rival | May 23 19:53 |
DaemonFC | no desktop effects | May 23 19:53 |
DaemonFC | hitting the swap file | May 23 19:53 |
DaemonFC | bad processor | May 23 19:53 |
Have you used a EEE PC? | May 23 19:53 | |
what you describe is a typical Windows experience | May 23 19:54 | |
DaemonFC | I played around with one of those gPCs, wasn't impressed | May 23 19:54 |
GNU/Linux is nothing like that | May 23 19:54 | |
DaemonFC | too slow | May 23 19:54 |
DaemonFC | has Linux on it, the point of putting Linux on bad hardware is to make Linux look bad | May 23 19:54 |
*PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection) | May 23 19:54 | |
EEE PC was just fine | May 23 19:54 | |
DaemonFC | you have to turn off so many features that Linux is completely stripped bare | May 23 19:55 |
*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell | May 23 19:55 | |
works as well as my X30 and that's better than XP on a dual core processor | May 23 19:55 | |
Balrog_ | DaemonFC: I've used an eee pc with liux | May 23 19:55 |
Balrog_ | works very well | May 23 19:55 |
not much has to be turned off either, I think he's projecting XP embedded problems. | May 23 19:55 | |
DaemonFC | so they have a low number limited release of a crappy box that happens to have Linux on it | May 23 19:55 |
DaemonFC | and when people return it | May 23 19:55 |
DaemonFC | you publish that in the news | May 23 19:55 |
DaemonFC | cost them nothing and they got marketing value out of it | May 23 19:56 |
It would be better for you to use a few systems than to keep mouthing off like this, FC. | May 23 19:56 | |
DaemonFC | I have | May 23 19:56 |
schestowitz | Windows hardly ran on Eee PC | May 23 19:57 |
DaemonFC | Linux really doesn't run well on less than 1 gig of RAM and an Athlon64 | May 23 19:57 |
schestowitz | They had to beef it up | May 23 19:57 |
DaemonFC | with a Geforce 6200 | May 23 19:57 |
schestowitz | And make it far more expeensivew | May 23 19:57 |
macabe | Have eeePC 1000HA running Debian Lenny/SID - no negative issues | May 23 19:57 |
schestowitz | As much as 3-4 times more expensive | May 23 19:57 |
DaemonFC | that's the lowest I've tried on my hardware | May 23 19:57 |
DaemonFC | just barely acceptable | May 23 19:57 |
*PeterKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell | May 23 19:57 | |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu with GNOME is as much of a memory hog as Vista | May 23 19:57 |
Balrog_ | DaemonFC: not really | May 23 19:57 |
Balrog_ | I've used it, and it runs REALLY WELL | May 23 19:58 |
DaemonFC | on 512 megs of RAM, you can't use it | May 23 19:58 |
Balrog_ | 1GB ram | May 23 19:58 |
DaemonFC | you have to wait while the PC catches up | May 23 19:58 |
LOL, FC, tell your gnu/linux sucks story to my 1.2 GHz PIII | May 23 19:58 | |
Balrog_ | 512 MB is ok too | May 23 19:58 |
yep | May 23 19:58 | |
DaemonFC | if you strip it down | May 23 19:58 |
DaemonFC | use WindowMaker or something | May 23 19:58 |
Balrog_ | I have Xubuntu 8.10 running on a 500 MHz laptop | May 23 19:58 |
DaemonFC | but my point is that it can't run GNOME with 512 megs | May 23 19:58 |
E16, thanks, but Gnome and KDE work too | May 23 19:58 | |
DaemonFC | it'll work but just barely | May 23 19:58 |
with 512 | May 23 19:58 | |
Balrog_ | Gnome will work well | May 23 19:59 |
Balrog_ | KDE4 may be a bit of a problem | May 23 19:59 |
better than Vista ever will work | May 23 19:59 | |
DaemonFC | XP works down to 128 megs | May 23 19:59 |
DaemonFC | GNOME or KDE about 1 gig | May 23 19:59 |
have not tried KDE 4 yet, it's in Debian testing so I will soon. | May 23 19:59 | |
DaemonFC | and it's not jsut me, I've heard people ask why GNOME is so bloated | May 23 19:59 |
DaemonFC | or why KDE it | May 23 20:00 |
XP is slow crap on new hardware, I use it daily so don't BS me | May 23 20:00 | |
DaemonFC | and why it can't run on systems where XP can | May 23 20:00 |
lies | May 23 20:00 | |
Balrog_ | yes, lies ... I've used GNOME on many systems, several slow | May 23 20:00 |
Balrog_ | KDE4 is heavier than GNOME | May 23 20:00 |
DaemonFC | GNOME is only useful with 1 gig+ of RAM | May 23 20:00 |
DaemonFC | that seems to make more difference than the CPU | May 23 20:01 |
Balrog_ | DaemonFC: false | May 23 20:01 |
I've got Lenny on a 233 MHz PII, that is slow. | May 23 20:01 | |
Balrog_ | (and little RAM) | May 23 20:01 |
but it works about as well as XP that I use at work with a dual core processor | May 23 20:01 | |
schestowitz | Check out: http://industry.bnet.com/technology/10001803/et-tu-intel-microsofts-ambitions-lie-bleeding/ | May 23 20:01 |
DaemonFC | the toolkits are bloated, developers get crazy with features that few people even use | May 23 20:01 |
DaemonFC | this is KDE mostly, and GNOME to a slightly lesser extent | May 23 20:01 |
MinceR | you'd love osx then :> | May 23 20:02 |
*schestowitz runs KDE with 256MB of RAM | May 23 20:02 | |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: take the FUD to another channel | May 23 20:02 |
DaemonFC | it's not FUD | May 23 20:02 |
DaemonFC | I would never think of using either one of them without at least a gig of RAM | May 23 20:02 |
schestowitz | It's flase | May 23 20:02 |
that last link about Vista failure, quoted that Michael Silver tool | May 23 20:02 | |
DaemonFC | I don't know how anyone could stand to | May 23 20:02 |
you don't know much, FC | May 23 20:03 | |
schestowitz | /s/tool/shill/ | May 23 20:03 |
outside of windows | May 23 20:03 | |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu is already out of memory at bootup | May 23 20:03 |
DaemonFC | with 512 megs | May 23 20:03 |
DaemonFC | no go load OpenOffice | May 23 20:03 |
DaemonFC | I'll get back to you in about 20 minutes when it loads | May 23 20:03 |
MinceR | my desktop easily does all that with 512MB | May 23 20:03 |
DaemonFC | and the computer unfreezed | May 23 20:03 |
MinceR | must be magic | May 23 20:03 |
After Silver got busted with that EU FUD, I'm not sure how he shows his face in public | May 23 20:04 | |
MinceR | DaemonFC: try physically installing it instead of running it under virtual pc under vista :> | May 23 20:04 |
lol | May 23 20:04 | |
DaemonFC | it's unfortunate that all operating systems are getting ridiculously bloated and that all their fanboys and the companies behind them can do is piss on you and say it's raining | May 23 20:04 |
*amarsh04 runs KDE 3.5.10 with 384 MiB RAM, although even 128 MiB worked | May 23 20:04 | |
DaemonFC | but it's bloat | May 23 20:04 |
Balrog_ | yes DaemonFC ... using a VM isn't going to give you good results much of the time | May 23 20:04 |
macabe | infobash = CPU[Intel Pentium M clocked at 1600.000 Mhz] Kernel[Linux 2.6.27-7-i686] | May 23 20:05 |
I feel pissed on , FC, could you please stop lying? | May 23 20:05 | |
Balrog_ | yes, please | May 23 20:05 |
DaemonFC | heh, I can open a VM with better simulated hardware than what you're telling me it runs on | May 23 20:05 |
macabe | Up[-175days-] Mem[-358.8/503.3MB-] HDD[-100GB(13%used)-] Procs[-101-] Client[Shell] | May 23 20:05 |
DaemonFC | why would I torture myself with 512 megs of RAM? | May 23 20:05 |
Balrog_ | DaemonFC: use a /real machine/ not a VM | May 23 20:05 |
DaemonFC | I have tried it on real machines | May 23 20:06 |
Balrog_ | VM has significant overhead | May 23 20:06 |
it's only torture if you have Windows, FC | May 23 20:06 | |
DaemonFC | I tried to salvage a Dell with a 2 Ghz Celeron and 512 megs of RAM | May 23 20:06 |
DaemonFC | I ended up junking it | May 23 20:06 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu wasn't very fast on it | May 23 20:06 |
DaemonFC | not even enough to want to bother with | May 23 20:06 |
*amarsh04 times OOo 3.1 load with Iceweasel, Icedove, konversation loaded and playing an MP3 using the PII-266 / 384 MiB RAM: about 80 seconds | May 23 20:07 | |
DaemonFC | my harebrained grandmother bought the thing against my warnings for my brother several years before, he'd never done anything with it much | May 23 20:08 |
DaemonFC | I ended up finding another 512 MB module and loading XP back onto it | May 23 20:08 |
Balrog_ | amarsh04: OOo 3.1 loads rather fast on my 1.5-2.5 GHz systems ... and it loads rather fast on that 500MHz / 512MB RAM Xubuntu system too ... like 25 seconds | May 23 20:09 |
DaemonFC | Dell has a unique way of making it look like they're not going to bone you with no lube | May 23 20:09 |
amarsh04 | I ended up replacing an old hard disk that was well past its use-by date and the improvement was quite noticable | May 23 20:09 |
DaemonFC | when you get obsolete hardware, a printer that needs expensive cartridges, and possibly Ubuntu | May 23 20:10 |
Hickens makes no mention of GNU/Linux in his article. | May 23 20:10 | |
DaemonFC | they're setting you up for an expensive fail and they know that some people won't know they've been cheated and demand a refund | May 23 20:10 |
amarsh04 | if you don't mind paying for the cartridges, an HP Officejet Pro K5300 works quite well | May 23 20:11 |
*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | May 23 20:12 | |
DaemonFC | well, they know with all that ,you won't be satisfied and you'll buy a new systems sooner | May 23 20:12 |
DaemonFC | a lot of them can't even be upgraded | May 23 20:12 |
but his link to Intel is Moblin | May 23 20:12 | |
DaemonFC | without throwing out the motherboard | May 23 20:12 |
So the gist of the article is, "Intel's new move to GNU/Linux is fatal for an already embattled M$" | May 23 20:13 | |
Balrog_ | though isn't Moblin connected with SUSE? | May 23 20:13 |
schestowitz | Microsoft and Alibaba in Talks Again: for Future After Yahoo? < http://www.chinastakes.com/Article.aspx?id=1223 > | May 23 20:14 |
I imagine Intel is sore from M$'s moves against their GPUs | May 23 20:14 | |
schestowitz | Balrog_: it is now | May 23 20:15 |
Balrog_ | hrm ... I wonder why :( | May 23 20:15 |
how serious is Intel about dumping M$? | May 23 20:15 | |
I know they refused Vista | May 23 20:15 | |
and they lost billions when XP sabotaged and then Vista did not "support" Intel graphics. | May 23 20:16 | |
Balrog_ | twitter: was vista able to support GMA950? Did it /have/ to exclude support? | May 23 20:17 |
schestowitz | Microsoft Cut over 300 Jobs in Greater China Region < http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock News/2332611/ > | May 23 20:17 |
schestowitz | http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&sourceid=mozclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&ncl=1243903775 | May 23 20:18 |
schestowitz | Extortion there | May 23 20:18 |
I'm not sure of the current status. | May 23 20:18 | |
schestowitz | You pay for Windows or we take away job | May 23 20:18 |
schestowitz | *jobs | May 23 20:18 |
but Intel was, for a long time, the only free software 3D acceleration available. | May 23 20:19 | |
M$ moved to crush it. Forums are filled with XP gamer complaints and then there's the whole Vista Capable disaster. | May 23 20:20 | |
All of this for chipsets that work just fine under GNU/Linux. | May 23 20:20 | |
Balrog_ | yes .... though the intel X series does work right | May 23 20:20 |
Balrog_ | i.e. X1300, X3100, etc | May 23 20:20 |
such as the i810 in my laptop. | May 23 20:20 | |
82830 here | May 23 20:21 | |
I have a newer set in a desktop that is not as good with 3d | May 23 20:22 | |
these are not the best chipsets but there is no reason for Vista to not work with them - the driver source code is published | May 23 20:22 | |
and we can be sure Intel made drivers for Vista | May 23 20:22 | |
the difference must be sabotage | May 23 20:23 | |
Balrog_ | I heard they didn't have some OpenGL functions "necessary" for Aero | May 23 20:23 |
Balrog_ | The wikipedia page says "This IGP is capable of displaying the Aero interface for Windows Vista." | May 23 20:24 |
Balrog_ | about the 950 | May 23 20:24 |
Balrog_ | the GMA 900 lacks a "hardware scheduler" | May 23 20:24 |
Vista lacks the ability to use Intel as GNU/Linux can. | May 23 20:25 | |
It is silly of them to try to blame OpenGL for their OS failure. | May 23 20:25 | |
or malice | May 23 20:26 | |
Balrog_ | hmm ... the GMA900 isn't too common | May 23 20:26 |
DaemonFC | Intel won't use Vista but pushed it on retail customers and conspired with MS to dump hardware incapable of running it | May 23 20:26 |
DaemonFC | so yeah | May 23 20:26 |
DaemonFC | sounds more like do what we say.... | May 23 20:27 |
DaemonFC | ;) | May 23 20:27 |
*DaemonFC edits Wikipedia to say it can't | May 23 20:27 | |
DaemonFC | then you can both be right | May 23 20:28 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 23 20:28 |
DaemonFC | depending on which edit you saw | May 23 20:28 |
DaemonFC | with all the various Wikipedia scandals and subtle vandalism and outright plageurism | May 23 20:29 |
DaemonFC | how can anyone tust it? | May 23 20:29 |
death watch updated with latest prediction of M$ demise http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/213707 | May 23 20:29 | |
DaemonFC | hire Edelman to write your wikipedia article | May 23 20:29 |
DaemonFC | :D | May 23 20:29 |
DaemonFC | if someone adds criticism, pay Edelman to move it to a "Criticism of" page | May 23 20:29 |
DaemonFC | that nobody will se | May 23 20:30 |
DaemonFC | *see | May 23 20:30 |
has wikipedia baned your IP yet, FC? | May 23 20:30 | |
schestowitz | Probably | May 23 20:30 |
DaemonFC | no | May 23 20:30 |
DaemonFC | cause I don't even really use it | May 23 20:30 |
DaemonFC | especially not for imporant things | May 23 20:30 |
it is apparent you do little research of any kind | May 23 20:30 | |
DaemonFC | twitter: http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1830262 | May 23 20:30 |
DaemonFC | enjoy | May 23 20:30 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: You may like that too | May 23 20:31 |
got it in flash free form? | May 23 20:31 | |
I'm not sure I'll be able to watch it. Let's find out. | May 23 20:31 | |
DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaADQTeZRCY | May 23 20:32 |
DaemonFC | meh | May 23 20:32 |
*neighborlee has quit ("When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net") | May 23 20:34 | |
DaemonFC | funny and true | May 23 20:35 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 23 20:35 |
schestowitz | "Microsoft Corp., the world’s biggest software maker, and Wal-Mart Stores Inc. were among companies selling $32.6 billion of debt this week as investors show signs of “pulling back” after a seven-week credit rally." http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aMblLti8JOio&refer=us | May 23 20:36 |
schestowitz | Why would Wal-mart sell debt!?! | May 23 20:36 |
how much for each? | May 23 20:36 | |
DaemonFC | probably to keep momentum | May 23 20:36 |
DaemonFC | they want to keep building stores | May 23 20:36 |
schestowitz | MS fires | May 23 20:36 |
schestowitz | And cancels products | May 23 20:36 |
schestowitz | It's NOT expanding | May 23 20:37 |
DaemonFC | various reasons but expansion of Walmart is probably the motivation | May 23 20:37 |
DaemonFC | this is the best time to expand | May 23 20:38 |
is there anyplace that does not have a Walmart? | May 23 20:38 | |
DaemonFC | probably a few | May 23 20:38 |
DaemonFC | and you could always use another 3 | May 23 20:38 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 23 20:38 |
I suppose they can always move to newer, better stores. | May 23 20:38 | |
schestowitz | Some of the Asian press seems corruptible | May 23 20:38 |
their grocery store strategy is crazy | May 23 20:38 | |
schestowitz | I find too much MS PR put there like articles | May 23 20:39 |
DaemonFC | no, what they'll do is open new stores in the same cities | May 23 20:39 |
schestowitz | Like this one: http://star-techcentral.com/tech/story.asp?file=/2009/5/21/technology/20090521120345&sec=technology http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/business/26998-microsoft-to-invest-rm3-billion-to-develop-local-human-capital | May 23 20:39 |
DaemonFC | to surround competitors | May 23 20:39 |
schestowitz | MS makes no profits IMHO | May 23 20:39 |
DaemonFC | and take their business | May 23 20:39 |
schestowitz | In many countries | May 23 20:39 |
DaemonFC | it works too | May 23 20:39 |
schestowitz | They just dump there | May 23 20:39 |
schestowitz | Dump, dump, dump | May 23 20:39 |
dump, dump, dump, fail | May 23 20:39 | |
schestowitz | Illegal | May 23 20:39 |
DaemonFC | Walmart does a lot of dirty things | May 23 20:40 |
schestowitz | But improperly enforced | May 23 20:40 |
DaemonFC | if I could see them or Microsoft go, I'd rather see Walmart go under | May 23 20:40 |
schestowitz | It's 1pm and I think tessier is still asleep | May 23 20:40 |
schestowitz | Overheard: Microsoft, Yahoo Talks Continue: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124286428097341365.html | May 23 20:40 |
M$ is far more damaging than WalMart | May 23 20:40 | |
DaemonFC | no | May 23 20:40 |
schestowitz | Not sure | May 23 20:40 |
DaemonFC | Walmart damages the US more | May 23 20:40 |
schestowitz | What's SM's market cap? | May 23 20:40 |
DaemonFC | that's why I'd rather see them go | May 23 20:40 |
schestowitz | Just wondering | May 23 20:41 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: key word: US | May 23 20:41 |
DaemonFC | yeah | May 23 20:41 |
schestowitz | WM does less damage outside the US | May 23 20:41 |
DaemonFC | so? | May 23 20:41 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 23 20:41 |
schestowitz | ASDA here in the UK | May 23 20:41 |
DaemonFC | and Canada | May 23 20:41 |
WM turns over a lot more money than M$ | May 23 20:41 | |
DaemonFC | :) | May 23 20:41 |
schestowitz | What numbers? | May 23 20:41 |
schestowitz | I could look it up | May 23 20:41 |
schestowitz | Wait | May 23 20:41 |
WM also moved the US to trade with China - very damaging. | May 23 20:41 | |
schestowitz | Revenue ▲ US$ 404.16 Billion | May 23 20:42 |
schestowitz | This is crazy | May 23 20:42 |
schestowitz | Let me check Exxon | May 23 20:42 |
schestowitz | Revenue ▲ US$ 477.359 billion | May 23 20:42 |
schestowitz | Where does all this money go? | May 23 20:42 |
You have to check profit margins to determine economic harm. WM is tiny. Exxon and M$ are huge. | May 23 20:43 | |
schestowitz | Usually people who are not even listed in the 'rich lists' | May 23 20:43 |
Most WM money gets dumped back into operations. | May 23 20:43 | |
schestowitz | twitter: not ture IMHO | May 23 20:43 |
Most M$ money goes into Bill Gates' pocket. | May 23 20:43 | |
schestowitz | But it's different | May 23 20:43 |
schestowitz | MS breaks the law | May 23 20:43 |
schestowitz | WM lobbies to get its 'franchise' | May 23 20:43 |
schestowitz | The 'Red Store' | May 23 20:43 |
WM too breaks the law. | May 23 20:43 | |
schestowitz | Like in Communist Russia | May 23 20:43 |
They are a little less intrusive than M$ is because M$ handles and monopolizes such an important commodity. | May 23 20:44 | |
WM's profit margins, from what I've read, are very thin | May 23 20:45 | |
DaemonFC | bullshit | May 23 20:45 |
DaemonFC | they say that | May 23 20:45 |
they don't enjoy the kinds of obvious monopoly mark up as Exxon does on gasoline | May 23 20:45 | |
DaemonFC | well, no, but very few companies do | May 23 20:46 |
M$ used to | May 23 20:46 | |
no longer, which is healthy for the rest of us. | May 23 20:46 | |
DaemonFC | well, what are Microsoft's expenses? | May 23 20:46 |
DaemonFC | How many thousands of employees do they need? | May 23 20:46 |
DaemonFC | at what salaries? | May 23 20:46 |
DaemonFC | What's their overhead? | May 23 20:46 |
It's based on that profit margin and size and importance of what they interfere with that I say M$ is more harmful than Walmart. | May 23 20:47 | |
DaemonFC | I'm sure their costs are huge | May 23 20:47 |
M$? | May 23 20:47 | |
DaemonFC | just on payroll, benefits, insurance | May 23 20:47 |
M$ costs are mostly marketing infrastructure | May 23 20:47 | |
DaemonFC | that too | May 23 20:47 |
DaemonFC | but it takes thousands of programmers at decent salaries to come up with their stuff | May 23 20:47 |
DaemonFC | I'm sure it does | May 23 20:47 |
they spend roughly a billion per month advertising | May 23 20:47 | |
they outsource coding now | May 23 20:48 | |
DaemonFC | all of it? | May 23 20:48 |
and are the largest user of H1B | May 23 20:48 | |
I'm not sure what's left of their coders | May 23 20:48 | |
and I don't care | May 23 20:48 | |
schestowitz | Smells like AstroTurf, esp. in the comments: http://seekingalpha.com/article/137969-our-microsoft-investment-summary | May 23 20:48 |
DaemonFC | well, you'd have to wonder how many people would be out of work if they went under | May 23 20:49 |
DaemonFC | there would be real consequences for real people | May 23 20:49 |
DaemonFC | that were just doing a job | May 23 20:49 |
DaemonFC | the only problem Microsoft really has right now is that they are publicly traded | May 23 20:50 |
DaemonFC | and have to do things that are not in the long term interest of the company | May 23 20:50 |
DaemonFC | to produce dividends now | May 23 20:50 |
DaemonFC | making an IPO is like a pact with the devil | May 23 20:50 |
M$ harms all sorts of markets, more people will do better when they are out of the way. | May 23 20:50 | |
DaemonFC | you no longer really run your own company | May 23 20:50 |
DaemonFC | I doubt it | May 23 20:51 |
Yes, but you use Vista and hate Ubuntu | May 23 20:51 | |
DaemonFC | They've made some bad decisions | May 23 20:51 |
DaemonFC | nothing they couldn't recover from if they started now | May 23 20:51 |
DaemonFC | but they won't even admit they've screwed up | May 23 20:51 |
Red Hat is growing, Google is doing well. These are things M$ put off for a decade. | May 23 20:52 | |
DaemonFC | well, Linux is doing better with corporate customers than it is with consumers | May 23 20:52 |
Word Perfect, Netscape, Lotus.... M$ has wrecked a lot of good companies | May 23 20:52 | |
DaemonFC | and that's really all it ever has done well | May 23 20:52 |
DaemonFC | in terms of market share | May 23 20:52 |
those are real jobs lost | May 23 20:52 | |
DaemonFC | corporate customers have lots more money | May 23 20:52 |
schestowitz | Yes | May 23 20:53 |
no they don't | May 23 20:53 | |
not banks | May 23 20:53 | |
schestowitz | People forget about layoffs MS caused | May 23 20:53 |
DaemonFC | so it's hurting a very profitable division of Microsoft | May 23 20:53 |
not insurance companies | May 23 20:53 | |
schestowitz | "poor MS.." | May 23 20:53 |
schestowitz | Well... | May 23 20:53 |
schestowitz | I think it's fat cats could earn less | May 23 20:53 |
schestowitz | Dismantle the thing | May 23 20:53 |
schestowitz | And let young companies distribute the share | May 23 20:53 |
schestowitz | But no... | May 23 20:53 |
DaemonFC | I'm sure Microsoft, given the choice would rather cede the consumer market than Enterprise | May 23 20:53 |
I think everyone could earn more with M$ not getting in the way. | May 23 20:53 | |
schestowitz | The gap only widens in the US | May 23 20:53 |
DaemonFC | Enterprise is probably 80% of their profit or more | May 23 20:53 |
schestowitz | With govt' approval | May 23 20:53 |
the sooner they go the better | May 23 20:53 | |
bbl | May 23 20:53 | |
schestowitz | Until disaster strikes as serves as a regularisation term | May 23 20:54 |
*silentivm has quit ("*** [make] Error 2") | May 23 20:54 | |
DaemonFC | I think it's more like, you're so worried about replacing them, that you aren't even concerned with what could replace them | May 23 20:54 |
DaemonFC | Apple | May 23 20:54 |
DaemonFC | which will be as bad or worse | May 23 20:54 |
DaemonFC | I don't think people will ever be receptive to a fragmented and ad hoc operating system with no authority behind it to steer it | May 23 20:55 |
DaemonFC | I mean that's what causes distributions in the beginning | May 23 20:55 |
DaemonFC | so if Microsoft goes, Apple will eventually be a much worse monopoly | May 23 20:55 |
DaemonFC | either you will be locked into Apple hardware and Mac OS | May 23 20:56 |
schestowitz | Videogame sales are down, down, DOWN! < http://blogs.computerworld.com/npd_videogame_sales_are_down_down_down > | May 23 20:56 |
schestowitz | Not good for anyone in this: MS, Sony, Nintendo | May 23 20:56 |
DaemonFC | or PC makers may just have Mac OS and it will fill the void of Windows | May 23 20:56 |
schestowitz | And MS loses lots of money there | May 23 20:56 |
schestowitz | No turnaround. Stuck | May 23 20:56 |
DaemonFC | I was saying that the other day | May 23 20:56 |
DaemonFC | the DRM is killing PC gaming | May 23 20:56 |
DaemonFC | killing them | May 23 20:56 |
DaemonFC | like the recording industry, most of the gaming industry's wounds are entirely self-inflicted | May 23 20:57 |
DaemonFC | "The cheaper PS2 may have also cut into Nintendo Wii sales, which was the whole plan. Nintendo Wii [sales were] ... down 52% year-over-year. " | May 23 20:58 |
DaemonFC | now that's funny | May 23 20:58 |
DaemonFC | that's what happens when you push underpowered hardware with gimmicky software | May 23 20:58 |
DaemonFC | something from 9 years ago beats the shit out of the Nintendo Wii | May 23 20:59 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 23 20:59 |
DaemonFC | My next system will probably be a Mac | May 23 21:00 |
DaemonFC | but that's probably also years off | May 23 21:00 |
DaemonFC | hmmm, I just had a sick idea | May 23 21:02 |
DaemonFC | I could maybe use 4 gigs on my Zune for a copy of Fedora | May 23 21:02 |
DaemonFC | and the other 4 gigs for music | May 23 21:02 |
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schestowitz | MS partner is finished: UMPC pioneer gives up the ghost < http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3674419074.html?kc=rss > | May 23 21:05 |
schestowitz | Should have gone with Linux | May 23 21:05 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: They're advertizing Zune for playing MP3s and AAC | May 23 21:05 |
DaemonFC | not for buying infected WMAs | May 23 21:05 |
DaemonFC | lmao | May 23 21:05 |
DaemonFC | http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=zune&x=0&y=0 | May 23 21:05 |
DaemonFC | obviously trying to focus on anything that can push them, and Zune Pass isn't it | May 23 21:06 |
Balrog_ | DaemonFC: zune will play MP3 | May 23 21:06 |
DaemonFC | yeah | May 23 21:06 |
Balrog_ | but zune won't work with alternative software | May 23 21:06 |
DaemonFC | it plays MP3, AAC, and Mpeg-4 video | May 23 21:06 |
DaemonFC | just like an ipod | May 23 21:06 |
DaemonFC | yeah it does | May 23 21:06 |
DaemonFC | it'll work on Linux | May 23 21:06 |
Balrog_ | URL | May 23 21:06 |
DaemonFC | with Rhythmbox | May 23 21:06 |
DaemonFC | you need to load the MTP plugin | May 23 21:06 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 23 21:07 |
DaemonFC | there's also a plugin for Banshee :P | May 23 21:07 |
*tacone has quit (Client Quit) | May 23 21:07 | |
DaemonFC | I think Amarok could do it too if it supports MTP devices | May 23 21:07 |
Balrog_ | DaemonFC: no, because it uses extra crypto | May 23 21:08 |
DaemonFC | there's also a project to port Linux to the Zune | May 23 21:08 |
DaemonFC | http://www.zune-online.com/news/zune/take-the-first-step-linux-on-zune.html | May 23 21:08 |
Balrog_ | DaemonFC: URL to good info that MTP works on zune? | May 23 21:08 |
Balrog_ | "There is partial support now which only lists the contents of the Zune player. | May 23 21:09 |
Balrog_ | " | May 23 21:09 |
DaemonFC | apaprently you can also run WinXP in Virtual Box | May 23 21:09 |
DaemonFC | and load the Zune software | May 23 21:09 |
Balrog_ | DaemonFC: I refuse to use MS software | May 23 21:09 |
Balrog_ | that's going too far | May 23 21:09 |
schestowitz | Better not to feed Apple either | May 23 21:10 |
Balrog_ | schestowitz: at least the apple products are more interoperable | May 23 21:10 |
schestowitz | Heh. | May 23 21:10 |
schestowitz | Which ones? | May 23 21:10 |
Balrog_ | <http://marcansoft.com/blog/2009/01/using-amarok-and-other-itunesdb-compatible-software-with-the-iphone-2x/> | May 23 21:10 |
schestowitz | The ones that issue DMCA complaints.takedowns? | May 23 21:10 |
DaemonFC | I've used my ipod in Rhythmbox | May 23 21:10 |
DaemonFC | it can sync it | May 23 21:10 |
DaemonFC | just make sure the tags are correct | May 23 21:11 |
DaemonFC | or else you won't like what happens | May 23 21:11 |
Balrog_ | all you have to do is modify a key in a system file on the device, and it will use the previous version hashing method, which is not DMCA'd | May 23 21:11 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 23 21:11 |
Balrog_ | "Edit /System/Library/Lockdown/Checkpoint.xml, find the DBVersion key, and change its value from 4 to 2." | May 23 21:11 |
DaemonFC | Hint: Incorrect tag = iPod throws it in the Unknown Artist folder | May 23 21:11 |
DaemonFC | hmm, Zune supports H.264 as well | May 23 21:12 |
DaemonFC | interestin | May 23 21:12 |
DaemonFC | *interesting | May 23 21:12 |
Balrog_ | I'd hope more would support theora, but until they have fast CPUs with some vector engine, this won't happen | May 23 21:13 |
Balrog_ | (vector engine like SSE or AltiVec) | May 23 21:13 |
Balrog_ | and the other thing is that non-iphone OS ipods show up at USB mass storage devices | May 23 21:13 |
Balrog_ | Zunes don't do this :/ | May 23 21:14 |
DaemonFC | hmmm | May 23 21:15 |
DaemonFC | 4 gig Zune = $60 and 16 gig Sandisk Sansa = $75 | May 23 21:15 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 23 21:15 |
Balrog_ | that's a video Sansa? | May 23 21:15 |
DaemonFC | the Zune is a ripoff | May 23 21:15 |
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DaemonFC | Audio Formats MP3/WMA/WAV/AAC | May 23 21:16 |
DaemonFC | Video Formats MPEG4/WMV/H.264 | May 23 21:16 |
DaemonFC | Connection Type Proprietary Connection | May 23 21:16 |
Balrog_ | that's all right ... what resolution? | May 23 21:17 |
DaemonFC | Compatible Operating Systems Windows XP | May 23 21:17 |
DaemonFC | ????? | May 23 21:17 |
Balrog_ | and what other OS? | May 23 21:17 |
DaemonFC | 2.4" TFT | May 23 21:17 |
DaemonFC | 320 x 240 | May 23 21:17 |
DaemonFC | so it's also got a bigger screen | May 23 21:17 |
Balrog_ | iphone/ipod touch is 480x320 | May 23 21:17 |
Balrog_ | a lot better | May 23 21:17 |
DaemonFC | the Zune is 1.8" | May 23 21:17 |
DaemonFC | well yeah | May 23 21:17 |
DaemonFC | if you want to be gouged | May 23 21:17 |
DaemonFC | Apple has a lot of nice things | May 23 21:18 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 23 21:18 |
Balrog_ | heh ... regular ipod is 320x240 so it's not too bad | May 23 21:18 |
DaemonFC | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883220007 | May 23 21:19 |
DaemonFC | hmmmm | May 23 21:19 |
schestowitz | "Toshiba licenses patents essential for meeting DVD format specifications" http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/303367/toshiba_sues_imation_others_over_dvd_patents | May 23 21:20 |
DaemonFC | XP is still being shoved into this thin client type devices | May 23 21:21 |
DaemonFC | that's pretty funny | May 23 21:21 |
Balrog_ | schestowitz: that was on slashdot not too long ago | May 23 21:21 |
DaemonFC | hmmmm | May 23 21:21 |
DaemonFC | so no matter who wins, we lose? | May 23 21:21 |
DaemonFC | :D | May 23 21:21 |
DaemonFC | yay!! | May 23 21:21 |
Balrog_ | yes :( | May 23 21:22 |
DaemonFC | Toshiba is real big with Microsoft | May 23 21:22 |
DaemonFC | they make a pretty good laptop though | May 23 21:22 |
schestowitz | Photos from SugarCamp Paris < http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=sugarcamp&d=taken-20090515- > | May 23 21:23 |
Balrog_ | DaemonFC: Toshiba laptops are often preloaded with junk | May 23 21:24 |
DaemonFC | so? | May 23 21:24 |
Balrog_ | I wouldn't buy them | May 23 21:25 |
DaemonFC | I have clean setup discs | May 23 21:25 |
DaemonFC | if they ship with Vista they have an SLP BIOS to begin with | May 23 21:25 |
DaemonFC | all I need is an SLP serial for the edition of Vista I want and an authorization certificate | May 23 21:26 |
DaemonFC | I have both | May 23 21:26 |
DaemonFC | I can reconfigure the hardware in this system any way I like and never trigger activation | May 23 21:26 |
DaemonFC | retail copies will freak out if you change the configuration so many times within a certain time frame | May 23 21:28 |
DaemonFC | that happened to my dad when he was replacing his motherboard | May 23 21:29 |
DaemonFC | I took care of it :) | May 23 21:29 |
Balrog_ | but I DON'T WANT VISTA!!!! | May 23 21:29 |
DaemonFC | XP uses SLP too | May 23 21:29 |
DaemonFC | I've never had to activate Windows | May 23 21:30 |
macabe | I've never had to activate Debian | May 23 21:30 |
tacone | i have to activate debian | May 23 21:31 |
tacone | anyone has any crack ? | May 23 21:31 |
macabe | Yeah; SIDUX | May 23 21:31 |
DaemonFC | if it detects the authorization it disables the activation system entirely | May 23 21:31 |
DaemonFC | I have the authorization | May 23 21:31 |
tacone | please send the crack to cute.kitty.tacone@hotmail.com | May 23 21:31 |
trmanco | lol | May 23 21:34 |
tacone | having an hotmail address should be seen as a form of charity, these days. | May 23 21:35 |
macabe | can't access hotmail or live.com, but its @ http://mira.susnsite.utk.edu/sidux/release | May 23 21:35 |
tacone | my first email address was an hotmail one. that was before ms acquisition | May 23 21:35 |
*DaemonFC has a live.com address | May 23 21:35 | |
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tacone | as for speed, chromium will pwn firefox 3.5 | May 23 21:35 |
macabe | good luck with the crack! | May 23 21:36 |
*Balrog_ has an msn.com address ;P | May 23 21:36 | |
Balrog_ | not paying for it .... lol | May 23 21:36 |
DaemonFC | you win | May 23 21:36 |
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Balrog_ | yeah ;) | May 23 21:37 |
Balrog_ | I don't use it, except for msn chat sometimes (not using messenger of course) | May 23 21:37 |
tacone | i discovered i can easily break macosx by moving my fingers on the mousepad | May 23 21:38 |
Balrog_ | explain | May 23 21:38 |
tacone | 4 fingers gesture | May 23 21:39 |
tacone | up and down | May 23 21:39 |
DaemonFC | you can register your existing email address as your passport | May 23 21:39 |
Balrog_ | this is hackintosh? I can try it on a real machine | May 23 21:39 |
tacone | do it fast for 1 minute | May 23 21:39 |
tacone | it's a macbook aluminium | May 23 21:39 |
DaemonFC | hackintosh.... | May 23 21:39 |
Balrog_ | what breaks? | May 23 21:39 |
Balrog_ | because I don't see any problem ehre | May 23 21:39 |
DaemonFC | what a worthless use of time and effort? | May 23 21:39 |
*_Goblin is now known as goblin | May 23 21:39 | |
Balrog_ | here * | May 23 21:39 |
tacone | if you do it fast, you'll see the expose going on on its own | May 23 21:40 |
tacone | if you do it fast for a minute, the dock will freeze | May 23 21:40 |
tacone | and the os will be very slow. | May 23 21:40 |
Balrog_ | hrm, check the system log | May 23 21:40 |
DaemonFC | even if you get a Hackintosh up and running, you're stuck on that version | May 23 21:40 |
Balrog_ | seems like something is up with your system | May 23 21:40 |
Balrog_ | DaemonFC: not so true anymore | May 23 21:40 |
Balrog_ | (use the Console utility) | May 23 21:40 |
DaemonFC | oh? | May 23 21:40 |
tacone | Balrog_: i doubt it | May 23 21:40 |
DaemonFC | how so? | May 23 21:40 |
Balrog_ | well, nothing like that happens here | May 23 21:40 |
tacone | Balrog_: if you do it fast, will the expose go on on its own for a while ? | May 23 21:41 |
Balrog_ | DaemonFC: because (a) using clean kernels works much better now, and (b) Mac OS has drivers for many boards | May 23 21:41 |
Balrog_ | for a bit ... you're overloading its buffer | May 23 21:41 |
tacone | yep | May 23 21:41 |
Balrog_ | just like when you hold a key for too long | May 23 21:41 |
tacone | overload it much more | May 23 21:41 |
DaemonFC | so you can use real Apple updates? | May 23 21:41 |
DaemonFC | doesn't it stil lbrick the system? | May 23 21:41 |
tacone | you can go on until something breaks | May 23 21:41 |
Balrog_ | DaemonFC: if you have the right hardware, yes | May 23 21:42 |
tacone | i tried the same on compiz, but it's more solid. | May 23 21:42 |
Balrog_ | hrm, I can't reproduce it | May 23 21:42 |
DaemonFC | hmmmm | May 23 21:42 |
tacone | yes you can | May 23 21:42 |
tacone | Balrog_: as i told you. you have to do it for a minute or so. not easy. | May 23 21:42 |
DaemonFC | I have Core 2 Duo on a G33 motherboard | May 23 21:43 |
DaemonFC | I suppose it would work | May 23 21:43 |
DaemonFC | but doubt it would see my TV card | May 23 21:43 |
tacone | it requires significant effort. it's not really a problem, noone will do it so fast for so much time | May 23 21:43 |
DaemonFC | lesbians | May 23 21:43 |
DaemonFC | maybe | May 23 21:43 |
Balrog_ | true. any connected log entries? | May 23 21:43 |
DaemonFC | sorry, had to | May 23 21:43 |
Balrog_ | DaemonFC: what tv card? | May 23 21:43 |
tacone | let me see | May 23 21:43 |
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DaemonFC | AverMedia M780 | May 23 21:43 |
schestowitz | Gentoo is dangerous for children < http://www.hboeck.de/archives/705-Gentoo-is-dangerous-for-children.html > | May 23 21:44 |
Balrog_ | hard to say ... if it's a common chip it may work .... more likely not | May 23 21:44 |
tacone | could be May 23 22:16:33 tacone-macbook com.apple.launchd[80] ([0x0-0x3bb3bb].com.apple.systemuiserver[10475]): Exited abnormally: Bus error | May 23 21:45 |
DaemonFC | yeah, I doubt it will | May 23 21:45 |
DaemonFC | Linux won't see it | May 23 21:45 |
DaemonFC | well, it can tell me it's there | May 23 21:45 |
DaemonFC | that's about it | May 23 21:45 |
tacone | or maybe not | May 23 21:45 |
tacone | dunno | May 23 21:45 |
Balrog_ | meh, probably that is | May 23 21:45 |
Balrog_ | you have 10.5.7 right? | May 23 21:46 |
tacone | .6 | May 23 21:46 |
tacone | i didn't have the chance to upgrade yet. | May 23 21:46 |
Balrog_ | upgrade. 10.5.7 has over a hundred bugfixes, though apple doesn't tell you that | May 23 21:46 |
tacone | but if you can reproduce the overload then you can almost surely break it. | May 23 21:46 |
tacone | Balrog_: i know it's full of fixes | May 23 21:46 |
tacone | i repeat you, you have to do it for a while. it's not a real issue | May 23 21:47 |
Balrog_ | ok. | May 23 21:47 |
DaemonFC | http://www.avermedia-usa.com/AVerTV/Product/ProductDetail.aspx?Id=24 | May 23 21:47 |
tacone | i was just trying to see how long could I make expose go on its own | May 23 21:47 |
DaemonFC | Certified for Windows Vista | May 23 21:47 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 23 21:47 |
tacone | it makes for a good joke on friends notebooks | May 23 21:47 |
DaemonFC | won't do shit in Linux | May 23 21:47 |
DaemonFC | works in XP too with Vista drivers | May 23 21:48 |
schestowitz | Lancelot that will be shipping with KDE 4.3: http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/2009/05/22/lancelot-17-whats-new/ | May 23 21:51 |
DaemonFC | this review sums up my TV card | May 23 21:55 |
DaemonFC | Absolutely no Linux support. Good hardware... but useless... | May 23 21:55 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 23 21:55 |
DaemonFC | that's an expensive device too | May 23 21:56 |
DaemonFC | probably would have got a video card with one, but ATI/AMD is the only one that makes those | May 23 21:57 |
DaemonFC | and ewwww | May 23 21:57 |
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DaemonFC | schestowitz: Just to test what Vista does with high definition video that has no content protection token, I took a rip of Aliens from a BD-ROM | May 23 21:59 |
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DaemonFC | and dumped it into MPEG-2 | May 23 21:59 |
DaemonFC | and played it | May 23 21:59 |
DaemonFC | over DVI with speakers hooked up to SPDIF | May 23 22:00 |
DaemonFC | played fine | May 23 22:00 |
Balrog_ | DaemonFC: do Hauppauge TV cards work with linux? | May 23 22:00 |
DaemonFC | I doubt it would affect a home video unless you used a constraint token yourself *shrug* | May 23 22:01 |
DaemonFC | Balrog_: I did spend about 30 minutes researching what ones work with Linux | May 23 22:01 |
DaemonFC | the most "guaranteed" way I found involved buying an AverMedia USB dongle | May 23 22:01 |
DaemonFC | and using their proprietary kernel driver | May 23 22:01 |
Balrog_ | argh :( | May 23 22:02 |
Balrog_ | <http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Video_capture_card> | May 23 22:02 |
DaemonFC | it looks like Linux just doesn't have all that much support for these things and nobody writes down an updated list of ones that are known to work | May 23 22:02 |
DaemonFC | hmmm | May 23 22:02 |
Balrog_ | well, look at that page | May 23 22:03 |
DaemonFC | I googled through about 20 pages | May 23 22:03 |
Balrog_ | more is supported that appears | May 23 22:03 |
Balrog_ | http://ivtvdriver.org/index.php/Main_Page | May 23 22:03 |
Balrog_ | <http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Supported_Hardware> | May 23 22:03 |
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DaemonFC | that one isn't really a list | May 23 22:04 |
Balrog_ | it gives info for searching | May 23 22:04 |
DaemonFC | this Avermedia M179 is older than the one I have and discontinued :( | May 23 22:05 |
DaemonFC | the one I have is really nice | May 23 22:06 |
DaemonFC | hardware on the chip for everything | May 23 22:06 |
DaemonFC | doesn't leech off the system | May 23 22:06 |
Balrog_ | HDTV decoding doesn't need hardware on the chip | May 23 22:07 |
DaemonFC | one of those things I never used and then when I tried it out, I needed it all of a sudden | May 23 22:09 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 23 22:09 |
DaemonFC | Note: Hauppauge is no longer shipping any analog only (PVR) cards due to pressure from FCC. | May 23 22:12 |
DaemonFC | lmao | May 23 22:12 |
DaemonFC | nice | May 23 22:12 |
DaemonFC | those things were dirt cheap too | May 23 22:12 |
Balrog_ | good. | May 23 22:20 |
Balrog_ | analog-only will soon be useless | May 23 22:20 |
Balrog_ | in the US | May 23 22:20 |
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DaemonFC | well that was fun | May 23 22:26 |
schestowitz | Where is tessier today...? | May 23 22:26 |
DaemonFC | http://www.amazon.com/Harman-SoundSticks-II-Multimedia-Speaker/dp/B0001DBEM4/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1243114927&sr=8-11 | May 23 22:28 |
DaemonFC | hmmm | May 23 22:28 |
DaemonFC | those look nice | May 23 22:28 |
DaemonFC | loan me $100? | May 23 22:28 |
DaemonFC | I think I saw them cheaper at Walmart though :P | May 23 22:29 |
macabe | They look, well, different, but how do they sound? Especially that whiskey jug in the middle. | May 23 22:32 |
DaemonFC | lmao | May 23 22:33 |
DaemonFC | I found out that MS keyboards and mice are actually rebranded Logitech | May 23 22:34 |
DaemonFC | but sold a few $'s cheaper | May 23 22:34 |
DaemonFC | hmmm, then we have some Bose speakers | May 23 22:35 |
DaemonFC | No highs, no lows, it must be Bose | May 23 22:35 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 23 22:35 |
DaemonFC | I got one of their Wave Radios at a garage sale for like $20 | May 23 22:36 |
DaemonFC | practically new | May 23 22:36 |
DaemonFC | it's alright but nothing worth $300 | May 23 22:36 |
DaemonFC | not even close | May 23 22:36 |
DaemonFC | I've redone certain bits in some of my music collection with the help of REAPER | May 23 22:38 |
DaemonFC | it basically defaults to either WAV or FLAC when you go to save the project, which is nice | May 23 22:38 |
DaemonFC | the last thing the world needs is another "professional" audio editor that insists upon WMA Lossless or Apple Lossless | May 23 22:39 |
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macabe | Been ripping my old Telarc vinyl discs direct to image. Bought them back in the early 80s and don't want to lose them. | May 23 22:46 |
DaemonFC | well, FLAC can be ripped with a CUE file | May 23 22:47 |
DaemonFC | so they can go right back to an identical CD copy with any image burning CD recording program | May 23 22:48 |
DaemonFC | there's a lot of Microsoft FUD spreaders trying to proliferate WMA Lossless | May 23 22:48 |
DaemonFC | but it's already lost | May 23 22:48 |
DaemonFC | even the Zune won't play WMA Lossless | May 23 22:49 |
macabe | Does REAPER do FLAC with CUE file? | May 23 22:49 |
DaemonFC | but a number of players support FLAC | May 23 22:49 |
DaemonFC | hmmm | May 23 22:50 |
DaemonFC | I rip with EAC | May 23 22:50 |
DaemonFC | so that's a good question | May 23 22:50 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 23 22:50 |
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DaemonFC | good lord it's hot in here | May 23 22:52 |
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macabe | Is seems Reaper is a windows app. Is EAC also the same? | May 23 22:56 |
DaemonFC | yeah | May 23 22:59 |
schestowitz | George Carlin - Who really controls America George Carlin - Who really controls America | May 23 23:00 |
schestowitz | Oops. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGyObuH3WTY&feature=related | May 23 23:00 |
DaemonFC | I'm trying out Monkey's Audio | May 23 23:00 |
DaemonFC | I decompressed one of my FLAC files to WAV | May 23 23:00 |
DaemonFC | to test it on | May 23 23:01 |
macabe | Too bad about reaper but can't see me fire up windows for one app. | May 23 23:01 |
DaemonFC | APE = 69.5 megs, FLAC = 72 megs | May 23 23:02 |
DaemonFC | WAV source was 100 megs | May 23 23:02 |
DaemonFC | meh | May 23 23:02 |
macabe | I'm with Twitter on that... If it ain't FOSS.. It ain't. | May 23 23:03 |
schestowitz | If tessier shows up, couple you tell him what happened? Thanks. gn | May 23 23:04 |
DaemonFC | damn | May 23 23:05 |
DaemonFC | it takes forever to seek | May 23 23:05 |
DaemonFC | hmmm | May 23 23:06 |
DaemonFC | kills VLC too | May 23 23:06 |
DaemonFC | hmmm, switching to normal compression helped that | May 23 23:08 |
tessier | Website is back up. | May 23 23:12 |
tessier | httpd ran it out of memory. I'll set something up so that can't happen. | May 23 23:12 |
tessier | I have nagios monitoring the site but it isn't set up to page me. I'll set it up to page me also. | May 23 23:13 |
tessier | I have other sites that I need to be paged for anyway. | May 23 23:13 |
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tessier | Ok, I've made some changes so hopefully it cannot be run out of memory so easily. | May 23 23:20 |
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DaemonFC | looks like someone is accusing twitter of being a meat puppet | May 23 23:21 |
DaemonFC | on Slashdot? | May 23 23:21 |
Balrog_ | tessier: more of these DDIS attacks??? | May 23 23:21 |
Balrog_ | DDOS * | May 23 23:21 |
DaemonFC | http://slashdot.org/~SockDisclosure/journal/214377 | May 23 23:22 |
DaemonFC | "Remember kids, other people are making a mockery of Slashdot. Other people have censored twitter. " | May 23 23:22 |
DaemonFC | seems like he's pissed off quite a few people there | May 23 23:23 |
DaemonFC | and starts shill threads | May 23 23:23 |
DaemonFC | "In that same thread, the AC posted a Google site search link that brings up just about every IRC log on the blog, just in case someone thinks this is some spur-of-the-moment impersonator. Also linked from there, in this part of one of the logs someone asks twitter if he's the same troll from Slashdot with multiple sockpuppets, and he confirms it in the usual yes but I am justified because I... | May 23 23:23 |
DaemonFC | ...am being targeted by a massive Microsoft conspiracy fashion. " | May 23 23:23 |
DaemonFC | rofl | May 23 23:24 |
DaemonFC | But this account is important because it provides the first piece of actual hard evidence of active sockpuppetry outside of the admittedly circumstantial shilling activity and style similarities presented here. twitter has apparently joined forces with a guy that runs a rather badly designed anti-Microsoft blog (that's a fresh idea). Someone on here (predictably) figured out that the owner... | May 23 23:24 |
DaemonFC | ...of those blogs runs an IRC channel on freenode, whose logs are archived daily on the blog itself. Being the smart cookie that he is, twitter obviously never realized this. In this thread, an AC posted links and quotes from the chat log that are reproduced here in bash.org format for maximum comedic value: | May 23 23:24 |
DaemonFC | <twitter> I'm back. | May 23 23:25 |
DaemonFC | <twitter> Want to see a nice piece of net stalking? | May 23 23:25 |
DaemonFC | <schestowitz> Yes, definitely. I want o document such phenomena too. | May 23 23:25 |
DaemonFC | <twitter> This one is personal and not one I'd like to call attention to. | May 23 23:25 |
DaemonFC | <twitter> my trolls on Slashdot like to out me as BRLUG member Will Hill. That's not something I will confirm or deny. | May 23 23:25 |
DaemonFC | <twitter> They also identify my accounts on the first few posts. They got my GNUChop today and replied to it by cut and pasting a brlug comment. | May 23 23:25 |
DaemonFC | <twitter> compare http://mail.brlug.net/pipermail/general_brlug.net/2008-August/018582.html | May 23 23:25 |
DaemonFC | <twitter> to http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=647417&cid=24621437 | May 23 23:25 |
DaemonFC | <twitter> Nasty, isn't it? | May 23 23:25 |
DaemonFC | <twitter> If what they say is true they can only know it by monitoring all of my traffic. | May 23 23:25 |
DaemonFC | twitter the meatpuppet! | May 23 23:26 |
tessier | Not sure exactly what happened. Somehow it ran out of memory. Looks like maybe mysql died first. | May 23 23:27 |
tessier | It's fixed anyway. Each time they try something I'll just fix whatever it is and let them try again. Problem solved for now. | May 23 23:27 |
DaemonFC | twitter has made 16 accounts on Slashdot | May 23 23:27 |
DaemonFC | that they know of | May 23 23:27 |
DaemonFC | just to use for sockpuppetry | May 23 23:27 |
schestowitz | tessier: ! | May 23 23:29 |
schestowitz | Yaya | May 23 23:29 |
schestowitz | Yaya*yay | May 23 23:29 |
DaemonFC | "he following is the complete list of twitter sockpuppets...This person currently has sixteen known accounts on Slashdot, most of which are actively used to shill his own posts to game the moderation system. His reputation has now transcended Slashdot and he's become pretty much the running joke around here. ...mostly bringing everyone else on Slashdot down by association, including honest... | May 23 23:29 |
DaemonFC | ...FOSS advocates who usually don't want anything to do with him or his lies, extremism and paranoia. Not content to disrupt and pollute Slashdot, our dear troll has now devolved into the role of a serial stalker, to boot." | May 23 23:29 |
DaemonFC | lmfao | May 23 23:31 |
DaemonFC | twitter is pretty funny | May 23 23:31 |
DaemonFC | I thought I had too much free time | May 23 23:31 |
DaemonFC | Twitter: How's those 16 voices in your head doing buddy? Their name wouldn't be Legion would it? | May 23 23:32 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 23 23:32 |
macabe | If he has too much time on his hands, what does that say about his /. followers? | May 23 23:34 |
DaemonFC | OK, I removed Twitter's comments on my blog including the sockpuppets | May 23 23:37 |
DaemonFC | and sent them to the spam pit | May 23 23:38 |
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MinceR | now you really showed him | May 23 23:43 |
schestowitz | tessier: thanks. | May 23 23:43 |
macabe | DaemonFC: Have you considered bypassing a new toy and using the fund for said toy to become an associate member of FSF.org? | May 23 23:46 |
DaemonFC | ? | May 23 23:46 |
macabe | Advocacy through people who have the experience in that. | May 23 23:47 |
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ushimitsudoki | Just got done with updating Ubuntu to the latest release. Not too bad so far. | May 23 23:48 |
tacone | ushimitsudoki: pretty stable | May 23 23:50 |
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DaemonFC | schestowitz: I notice that Tiger Direct is giving away copies of Vista Ultimate | May 23 23:52 |
DaemonFC | just to get rid of them | May 23 23:52 |
DaemonFC | they throw them in for free with hardware | May 23 23:52 |
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MinceR | gnome+compiz and kde4 are both utter pain to use | May 23 23:57 |
MinceR | i guess i'll have to install debian and go back to kde3 | May 23 23:57 |
DaemonFC | heh | May 23 23:57 |
MinceR | compiz keeps crashing x | May 23 23:57 |
DaemonFC | it does that you know? | May 23 23:57 |
MinceR | kde4 plasma eats cpu like a fat kid in a candy factory | May 23 23:57 |
DaemonFC | it does that you know? | May 23 23:58 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 23 23:58 |
MinceR | i guess kde3 just worked too well, it had to be swept under the rug | May 23 23:58 |
tacone | i don't have compiz crashes | May 23 23:58 |
DaemonFC | they do that you know? | May 23 23:58 |
DaemonFC | Meh, it just depends, they slap things together and call it a release with some distros | May 23 23:59 |
DaemonFC | and maybe it works and maybe it doesn't | May 23 23:59 |
DaemonFC | and maybe they don't give a shit cause it works for most people | May 23 23:59 |
DaemonFC | and you aren't one of them | May 23 23:59 |
DaemonFC | you'd really think computer hardware and software would be more predictable | May 23 23:59 |
DaemonFC | by now | May 23 23:59 |
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