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| schestowitz | Thanks. I'll watch that next. On http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5HBfmhGSzU&NR=1 at the moment. | May 29 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| tim_ | hi all. | May 29 00:07 |
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| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: the question of religion in schools, the biggest dristraction to education as a whole | May 29 00:10 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: perhaps if less was sent on sending people to war and more to be put in a well funded public classroom there wouldn't be this problem | May 29 00:12 |
| schestowitz | Yeah. | May 29 00:13 |
| schestowitz | But many people just impose faith on their 'offsprings' | May 29 00:13 |
| schestowitz | Gene imposition not enough | May 29 00:13 |
| schestowitz | Wanting them to think alike -- natural inclination, eariy when you deal with a child since birth | May 29 00:14 |
| *_Goblin (n=tim@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | May 29 00:15 | |
| _Goblin | good evening/morning...... | May 29 00:15 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: you can accuse everyone from virtually any instutition for doing that to kids | May 29 00:15 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: because afterall, they know better | May 29 00:15 |
| schestowitz | Greetings, _Goblin | May 29 00:15 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: yes, same with politician | May 29 00:16 |
| schestowitz | Parenthood where the superior is a state | May 29 00:16 |
| schestowitz | Parethood --- micro-Stalinism ;-) | May 29 00:16 |
| schestowitz | Parenthood | May 29 00:17 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: yep it can become that way, ecspecially if the parents make irrational choices because after all, their children must think just like they do :P | May 29 00:18 |
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| schestowitz | So the solution is to tilt parents (=today's kids) into rationality | May 29 00:22 |
| schestowitz | I.e. abolish old wives' tales | May 29 00:22 |
| schestowitz | Just done watching ("Bill Hicks: What is the point to Life") | May 29 00:23 |
| *twitter (i=willhill@97-113-229-54.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovell | May 29 00:23 | |
| schestowitz | Posted news for tonight, off soon. | May 29 00:23 |
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| good night | May 29 00:24 | |
| before you go, what is your favorite story today? | May 29 00:24 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: its not that, just be more conscientious that not everyone thinks the same way and that you disapline with a motive and an eventual conclusion that can be learned. | May 29 00:27 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: not this whole, I will slap you if you do something wrong, or else how can someone determine exactly what is wrong? | May 29 00:29 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: but at the same time there isn't always an opportunity for rationale, so sometimes disapline is nessisary | May 29 00:29 |
| schestowitz | twitter: I know the important ones | May 29 00:30 |
| schestowitz | Like Min 7 and KOffice | May 29 00:30 |
| schestowitz | *Mint | May 29 00:30 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: I do not know the right way it is to be done because in my opinion everyone must approach it differently. Ok, I think my rant is done. | May 29 00:30 |
| schestowitz | The good stories I'll write about in the morning | May 29 00:30 |
| schestowitz | I keep the important ones (subjective) on the side for writing | May 29 00:30 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: conditional love is enough | May 29 00:30 |
| KOffice story, that should be interesting. | May 29 00:31 | |
| schestowitz | Applying pressure by ultimatum and playing "favourites" with kids | May 29 00:31 |
| schestowitz | In some religious you're in mortal danger for not obeying a "faith" | May 29 00:31 |
| Your right to swing your arm ends at my nose, Carl. | May 29 00:31 | |
| schestowitz | gn | May 29 00:32 |
| later | May 29 00:32 | |
| DaemonFC | think I found the best laxative there ever was | May 29 00:33 |
| DaemonFC | microwave burritos and habenero tabasco | May 29 00:33 |
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| DaemonFC | 16 hours later........still in effect | May 29 00:34 |
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| tacone | gn | May 29 00:36 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: what secures that right to your self defence or compensation from damages resulting from the injury inflicted on your nose? | May 29 00:36 |
| a working criminal justice system | May 29 00:37 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWiBt-pqp0E | May 29 00:37 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: and if that person hitting you happens to be a police officer or the attourney general? | May 29 00:38 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: rights are what you make of them and are able to stand up as well as fight for | May 29 00:39 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: not only what you but what society as a whole makes of them | May 29 00:39 |
| yuhong | A quote from <http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3559&p=14>: | May 29 00:39 |
| yuhong | "I'm far less concerned about who pulls ahead while overclocked and far more concerned about AMD's health at the end of all of this. Maybe the right way of looking at this isn't by talking about a 6% performance advantage, but instead talking about whether or not you want there to be a real competitor to Intel in the future. Maybe the Phenom II X4 940 should get the win here just to ensure... | May 29 00:39 |
| yuhong | ...we have an AMD to talk about in a couple of years." | May 29 00:39 |
| the criminal justice system applies to it's members as well. alone you are divided and helpless. as a group you can not be opposed by predators | May 29 00:41 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: but what if you are amongst a group of coniving predators? | May 29 00:42 |
| AMD makes better chips | May 29 00:42 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: and you know how? | May 29 00:42 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: do you know Global Foundries good yield margins per a fab compared to Intel's? | May 29 00:42 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: why does AMD have a market for Triple-Core CPUs? | May 29 00:42 |
| AMD almost always has better processing power per watt than Intel. | May 29 00:43 | |
| their number crunching has been better for at least a decade | May 29 00:43 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: it wouldn't make a difference if most of the processing is VT-x optimized | May 29 00:43 |
| yuhong | Well, in that particular review, at stock speed AMD wins, but with overclocking it is kind of depends. | May 29 00:44 |
| yuhong | But that is not the point I want you to focus on. | May 29 00:44 |
| I'm not interested in your focus | May 29 00:45 | |
| yuhong | I want you to focus on the quote above on competition. | May 29 00:47 |
| yuhong | From this review. | May 29 00:48 |
| yuhong | Thanks for telling this trivia about Global Foundries, however. | May 29 00:49 |
| yuhong | On other news about Intel, remember when I mentioned Nehalem-EX? | May 29 00:50 |
| yuhong | Intel recently demoed it. | May 29 00:51 |
| yuhong | http://techreport.com/discussions.x/16981 | May 29 00:51 |
| yuhong | Look at the Task Manager picture. | May 29 00:53 |
| yuhong | Count how many CPUs are in it. | May 29 00:53 |
| note about Koffice 2.0 -" Targeted Audience Our goal for now is to release a first preview of what we have accomplished. This release is mainly aimed at developers, testers and early adopters. It is not aimed at end users, and we do not recommend Linux distributions to package it as the default office suite yet. KOffice 2.0 will be useful for some users, but since it is the first release in a long series it is likely to contain bugs | May 29 00:56 | |
| http://dot.kde.org/2009/05/28/koffice-200-released | May 29 00:56 | |
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| _Hicham_ | Hi All! | May 29 00:57 |
| yuhong | On other news about Intel, remember when I mentioned Nehalem-EX? | May 29 00:58 |
| yeah, you did that 5 minutes ago | May 29 00:58 | |
| I count 16 cores. they might catch up to Cell one day. | May 29 00:58 | |
| did not see a "task manager" though | May 29 00:59 | |
| yuhong | I did see the task manager, and I counted 128 threads. | May 29 00:59 |
| yuhong | Now remember when I talked about how Server 2008 R2 supported more than 64 CPUs? | May 29 01:00 |
| MinceR | gn | May 29 01:00 |
| yuhong | What is gn? | May 29 01:00 |
| MinceR | good night | May 29 01:00 |
| _Hicham_ | yuhong : this is the second time u ask about gn | May 29 01:03 |
| yuhong | I know, I unfortunately did not realized it until too late. | May 29 01:03 |
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| yuhong | I talked about Server 2008 R2, Nehalem-EX, and x2APIC in a previous IRC chat. | May 29 01:06 |
| yuhong | My point is that Intel recently demoed all this. | May 29 01:06 |
| _Hicham_ | Intel is leaving MS | May 29 01:11 |
| yuhong | What do you mean? | May 29 01:11 |
| yuhong | What do you mean by this? | May 29 01:11 |
| _Hicham_ | MS is dying | May 29 01:15 |
| _Hicham_ | the market is going toward Linux | May 29 01:15 |
| yes, I don't think M$ can bully Intel back this time. | May 29 01:15 | |
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| M$ is welcome to join the free software world as an honest company. | May 29 01:16 | |
| _Hicham_ | Microsoft will release Windows source code sooner or later | May 29 01:16 |
| It's too late for that. | May 29 01:16 | |
| I don't think anyone would be interested at this point. | May 29 01:17 | |
| It would be like stepping into a time capsule from 1985. | May 29 01:17 | |
| M$ has released Windows source code but they do it in a non free way. I don't think you can even compile it. | May 29 01:19 | |
| yuhong | Yep, it is called shared source. | May 29 01:22 |
| yuhong | Too late? Well, do consider that Mac and Linux is only slowly taking over Windows right now. | May 29 01:23 |
| yuhong | BTW, there is already an open source clone of Windows (kernel and all) called ReactOS. | May 29 01:26 |
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| _Hicham_ | ReactOS is great | May 29 01:27 |
| _Hicham_ | I tried it on a virtual machine | May 29 01:27 |
| yuhong | I am reading about data loss caused by ext4 caused by misuse of fsync. | May 29 01:39 |
| yuhong | Unfortunately, it came not that long after Firefox 3 encountered performance problems because SQLite used fsync too often. | May 29 01:39 |
| yuhong | In fact, I have seen it happen on Windows as well. | May 29 01:40 |
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| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Jon Stewart is making fun of the UK | May 29 04:29 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 29 04:29 |
| DaemonFC | Scamalot | May 29 04:29 |
| DaemonFC | "$3100 for a moat cleaning? The British have a REAL Watergate!" | May 29 04:30 |
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| schestowitz | Hey | May 29 06:16 |
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| oiaohm | http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25319/1090/ itwire is not getting nicer on windows 7 schestowitz | May 29 06:36 |
| schestowitz | Yes, it's "Vista 7" | May 29 06:39 |
| schestowitz | You'll see after it's out | May 29 06:39 |
| oiaohm | Different name | May 29 06:39 |
| schestowitz | And after the market/AstroTurf/bribefest is over | May 29 06:40 |
| oiaohm | Vista II | May 29 06:40 |
| oiaohm | I like better. | May 29 06:40 |
| schestowitz | There are many names | May 29 06:40 |
| schestowitz | I use 7apourware, Vista 2, Vista SP, ME3, etc. | May 29 06:40 |
| oiaohm | Basic benchmarks of 2.6.30 showed some interesting performance changes. | May 29 06:43 |
| oiaohm | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_2630&num=4 | May 29 06:44 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I saw | May 29 06:45 |
| schestowitz | Pleased? | May 29 06:45 |
| oiaohm | Mixed. | May 29 06:47 |
| oiaohm | Some workloads are going to be better. 7zip test in there being slower is going to be a pain. Mostly due to fairer resource allocation. | May 29 06:48 |
| oiaohm | Ok lot of work loads are going to be better. I just hope the 7zip one does not hit blender rendering. | May 29 06:49 |
| schestowitz | Are the features worth it? | May 29 06:49 |
| oiaohm | It is a hard call. Threaded interpert handling will reduce the numbers of times the system become not responsive. | May 29 06:51 |
| oiaohm | With 2.6.31 if it still contains ksm as plained there will really not be a call. Compressing ram kinda provides all kinds of benifits. | May 29 06:53 |
| oiaohm | Ram reduction is always important. | May 29 07:00 |
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| oiaohm | I missed a feature 2.6.30 has fastboot support with threaded load up of drivers schestowitz. So boot speed seekers will love it. | May 29 07:05 |
| schestowitz | Yeah. Well, it's usually getting leaner over time | May 29 07:08 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft promised speed | May 29 07:08 |
| schestowitz | Then canceled the plan in 2008 | May 29 07:08 |
| schestowitz | Notice how fast MS moved from Mojava advertising to 7 | May 29 07:08 |
| schestowitz | It didn't work | May 29 07:08 |
| schestowitz | They got clod feet | May 29 07:08 |
| schestowitz | Then bribed some bloggers | May 29 07:08 |
| schestowitz | Advertising was not enough | May 29 07:08 |
| schestowitz | I can't wait till Vista 7 is out | May 29 07:08 |
| schestowitz | I keep saying this | May 29 07:08 |
| schestowitz | It's like with Vista in 2006 | May 29 07:09 |
| schestowitz | When the cat is out of the bag it starts sh*tting itself | May 29 07:09 |
| oiaohm | 2.6.30 make 10 second boots possiable on standard hardware without patching the kernel. | May 29 07:09 |
| schestowitz | Because mom and pop try it on the old PC and they HATE it | May 29 07:09 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: how's VIsta 7 boot time in RC? | May 29 07:09 |
| oiaohm | Still around the 30 second mark at best. | May 29 07:10 |
| oiaohm | Windows 7 is not using a threaded driver init. | May 29 07:10 |
| oiaohm | That is subtract 9 seconds just there. | May 29 07:11 |
| tessier | How are things in bnland? | May 29 07:16 |
| tessier | oiaohm: Boot speed? You mean that thing I do once when I get a new piece of hardware to run Linux on? | May 29 07:16 |
| schestowitz | tessier: it's OK. Not many trolls recently, which is always good. | May 29 07:17 |
| tessier | Still no winfs in Windows 7 eh? | May 29 07:17 |
| schestowitz | tessier: Microsoft won't get itself out of the hold with Vista 7. | May 29 07:17 |
| schestowitz | tessier: Microsoft fans (proven history) start complaining about it | May 29 07:17 |
| schestowitz | /s/hold/hole/ | May 29 07:17 |
| tessier | I used to think that winfs might give windows a serious advantage because it did sound pretty cool. I was hoping reiserfs would be the answer to that. Now I'm not at all worried about winfs. And btrfs is coming along nicely. | May 29 07:18 |
| schestowitz | In embedded Linux there has been a 'WinFS' for like 2-3 years | May 29 07:18 |
| schestowitz | I can't remember the product's name | May 29 07:18 |
| schestowitz | With advances like Google Desktop and such there are other routes for finding files too, even by programs | May 29 07:19 |
| schestowitz | WinFS was shelved (since early 2006 or so). No word on it since, so it ain't coming back /any/ time soon. Microsoft has other things to worry about right now. | May 29 07:20 |
| oiaohm | Laptop users tessier. Linux is getting to the state is can boot faster than restoring from a suspended state. | May 29 07:23 |
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| oiaohm | There are a few database filesystems around for Linux. Just like winfs they have not got popular yet. | May 29 07:27 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: how long to hibernate and back? | May 29 07:27 |
| schestowitz | In Windows 98 it took about 20 seconds | May 29 07:27 |
| schestowitz | with 32mb of ram | May 29 07:27 |
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| oiaohm | hibernate is a expanding scale. | May 29 07:28 |
| oiaohm | More data in ram that need to be sent to disk longer it takes. | May 29 07:29 |
| oiaohm | And got back. | May 29 07:29 |
| oiaohm | 4gb of ram even if you have to compressed is still going to take a while to write out and get back. | May 29 07:30 |
| oiaohm | For laptop users that is also eating into there battery.. Why lot end up using suspended in ram. again still eating into the power. | May 29 07:33 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I know | May 29 07:34 |
| schestowitz | Better to restore sessions from disk | May 29 07:34 |
| oiaohm | Linux it could be better to just start up. | May 29 07:34 |
| schestowitz | This would rid Linux from the whole ACPI mess | May 29 07:35 |
| oiaohm | Remember kde and others will remember what applications you were using. | May 29 07:35 |
| oiaohm | So restart them fresh. | May 29 07:35 |
| oiaohm | So there could be a point where there is no advantage to suspending to disk with Linux. | May 29 07:36 |
| schestowitz | Patents Roundup: Updates from Europe, Many More Patent Trolls, and Backlash < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/29/many-more-patent-trolls/ > | May 29 07:44 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I like this feature about KDE | May 29 07:44 |
| schestowitz | I blogged about it 3+ years ago | May 29 07:44 |
| schestowitz | But KDE could restore more | May 29 07:44 |
| schestowitz | Like remember which virtual desktops apps are in | May 29 07:44 |
| schestowitz | It's patchy in place. Not sure about DKE4 though | May 29 07:45 |
| schestowitz | *KDE4 | May 29 07:45 |
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| oiaohm | With it having a pracitcal usage most likely more focus will be on it working right schestowitz | May 29 08:08 |
| oiaohm | http://blog.dailymotion.com/ Interesting going flash and silverlight free. | May 29 08:14 |
| mtnd3w | oiaohm: so is youtube | May 29 08:21 |
| mtnd3w | http://www.youtube.com/html5 | May 29 08:21 |
| mtnd3w | firefox, chrome, opera, sarafi all behind it also | May 29 08:22 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Land Grab Still on in the Far East http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/29/microsoft-land-grab-nz-thailand/ | May 29 08:24 |
| schestowitz | mtnd3w: :-) So it's true | May 29 08:25 |
| schestowitz | Gnote Can Save GNOME from Mono < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/29/remove-mono-from-gnome/ > | May 29 08:37 |
| mtnd3w | any of you debian users? | May 29 08:38 |
| oiaohm | mtnd3w: device makers are also behind it having to pay adobe or MS for support stuffs there bottom lines. | May 29 08:38 |
| oiaohm | At moment yes mtnd3w | May 29 08:38 |
| mtnd3w | do you know where i can find a good sources.list? | May 29 08:39 |
| mtnd3w | oiaohm: there is still fud about the formats not being upto date with h.264 | May 29 08:40 |
| oiaohm | Ok bits missing from debian I build self. | May 29 08:40 |
| oiaohm | My system is a bit of a hybred mess. | May 29 08:40 |
| mtnd3w | oh ok | May 29 08:40 |
| mtnd3w | is there a website or a directory that lists all repositories for lenny? | May 29 08:41 |
| oiaohm | My isp provides me with repositories on there server for lots of distrobutions. | May 29 08:43 |
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| oiaohm | http://www.debian.org/mirror/list For the central repositories of debian they are in all of the following locations. | May 29 08:45 |
| oiaohm | Picking less traffic ones does help. | May 29 08:45 |
| mtnd3w | oiaohm: thank you! | May 29 08:46 |
| oiaohm | http://debian-multimedia.org is also helpful. | May 29 08:47 |
| oiaohm | For all those codec issues and other things. | May 29 08:47 |
| oiaohm | http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Security/Microsoft-DirectX-Vulnerability-Under-Attack-465409/ Ok creative hole in windows. | May 29 08:50 |
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| schestowitz | Does Microsoft Create Security FUD Against Rivals? < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/29/security-fud-against-rivals/ > | May 29 08:52 |
| mtnd3w | oiaohm: thanks everything is updating... | May 29 08:52 |
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| schestowitz | remark from the author: "What the f* is 'pool overruns'? A linked list is a highly structured .. er ... structure, it ain't supposed to leak ?? it's unlinking is supposed to be safe. If I recall from coding school, a linked-list that can be corrupted by the data isn't much use :) " | May 29 08:56 |
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| oiaohm | pool overruns are buffer overflows giving another name. | May 29 09:01 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | May 29 09:04 |
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| zoobab01 | hi | May 29 09:07 |
| zoobab01 | /usr/bin/mplayer -v mms://wm.streampower.be/ceu/archive/SESSIONS/ceulive_2303.wmv | May 29 09:07 |
| zoobab01 | they talk about the patent | May 29 09:08 |
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| schestowitz | Is this the conference Axel talked about? | May 29 09:17 |
| schestowitz | http://www.ipjur.com/blog2/index.php?/archives/77-2945th-session-of-the-Council-of-the-European-Union-Competitiveness-Configuration-Internal-Market,-Industry-and-Research.html | May 29 09:18 |
| schestowitz | Is it the one Ciaran attends? | May 29 09:19 |
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| schestowitz | From MS ODF to MS PDF? http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/29/from-msodf-to-mspdf/ | May 29 09:28 |
| zoobab01 | yes | May 29 09:37 |
| zoobab01 | no Ciaran conference was in Ireland | May 29 09:38 |
| zoobab01 | Council meetings are closed doors | May 29 09:38 |
| zoobab01 | if you go to vote for the European Elections, think first that "democracy stops when diplomacy starts" | May 29 09:38 |
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| schestowitz | Bingeing with Microsoft and Ruining the Environment < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/29/bing-yahoo-microsoft-spam/ > | May 29 09:58 |
| oiaohm | MS must keep a search engine. Without it how can W-E perform intelgence scans without being noticed. | May 29 10:04 |
| oiaohm | Basically the day MS gives up a search engine we know they are in trouble. | May 29 10:05 |
| oiaohm | http://ostatic.com/blog/sourceforge-acquiring-open-source-dev-portal-ohloh Sourceforge is turning into a monster. | May 29 10:07 |
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| schestowitz | On no | May 29 10:14 |
| schestowitz | ohloh is Microsofr employees | May 29 10:15 |
| schestowitz | If anyone reads FSDaily, maybe vote for http://www.fsdaily.com/EndUser/Gnote_Explodes_in_Popularity | May 29 10:22 |
| schestowitz | With Vista 7 Already Disappointing, Is There a Future for Microsoft? < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/29/windows-7-already-disappointing/ > | May 29 10:26 |
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| schestowitz | Oh Loh! SourceForge Buys Former Microsoft Employees < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/29/sourceforge-adds-ex-softies/ > | May 29 10:56 |
| schestowitz | Police Blame Video Games For 2-Year-Old Stabbing 5-Month-Old < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090527/0335425026.shtml > | May 29 11:05 |
| schestowitz | Today, It's Good Manners Being Killed By Texting < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090527/1055455029.shtml > | May 29 11:11 |
| schestowitz | "TIME-WARNER is divorcing AOL and chucking it out into the cold and the snow." http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137511/time-warner-spins-aol | May 29 11:11 |
| schestowitz | Note how close Microsoft is to WSJ. http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/05/28/liveblogging-microsoft-announcing-new-search-engine No wonder they mess about with Mossberg... and others to harm Linux.. | May 29 11:14 |
| schestowitz | Google and <video>: Google Talks HTML 5 and Innovation < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/05/28/google-talks-html-5-and-innovation > | May 29 11:16 |
| schestowitz | More Rockefellers in charge of the US... http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/05/28/senate-looks-into-deceptive-online-marketing | May 29 11:17 |
| oiaohm | The web desktop is turning up something Ms tried to stop. | May 29 11:31 |
| tacone | "bing" | May 29 11:51 |
| tacone | lol | May 29 11:51 |
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| schestowitz | Bink.nu | May 29 11:57 |
| schestowitz | Bing.rip | May 29 11:57 |
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| eet | Mr Roy Schestowitz PhD? | May 29 12:34 |
| eet | Just checking... | May 29 12:35 |
| schestowitz | IDG, ACT, CompTIA and the Rest of the Microsoft AstroTurf < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/29/idg-boosts-act-comptia/ > | May 29 12:37 |
| schestowitz | load average: 12.04, 4.84, 3.62 | May 29 12:42 |
| schestowitz | Weird... | May 29 12:42 |
| oiaohm | http://download.savannah.gnu.org/releases/qemu/qemu-0.10.5.tar.gz << This is weird it will not download for me. | May 29 12:44 |
| oiaohm | To be correct I cannot even get to savannah.gnu.org | May 29 12:44 |
| eet | enjoy your paranoid trainwreck of a life, 'bye! :) | May 29 12:44 |
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| schestowitz | One of the Novell shills came here | May 29 12:48 |
| schestowitz | SUSE shills | May 29 12:48 |
| schestowitz | Or Novell | May 29 12:48 |
| schestowitz | Maybe just SUSE | May 29 12:48 |
| schestowitz | And around the very same minute we seem to be under DDOS | May 29 12:48 |
| schestowitz | What a coincidence | May 29 12:48 |
| oiaohm | Its the same as before. | May 29 12:49 |
| ushimitsudoki | I saw the article on the Novell PR about trademarks. Funny they call up the FSF Four Freedoms for defense, when the entire current basis of Novell's linux involvement is a repudiation of the FSF GPLv3. | May 29 12:49 |
| oiaohm | mibbit.com connection ddos hapenning schestowitz | May 29 12:49 |
| schestowitz | Really? | May 29 12:55 |
| schestowitz | What do you mean? | May 29 12:55 |
| schestowitz | I noticed mibbit was down yesterday | May 29 12:55 |
| schestowitz | Very rare | May 29 12:55 |
| schestowitz | Just not responding at all | May 29 12:55 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: yeah. Suits them when FOSS people speaks | May 29 12:55 |
| schestowitz | Not he Jaffes and Hovsepians (IBMers) | May 29 12:55 |
| ushimitsudoki | schestowitz: I have noticed the mono brigade showing some true colors of late - some vicious attacks on GNote have raised some eyebrows among those not really familiar with the situation | May 29 12:56 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 29 12:57 |
| schestowitz | It's good for awareness | May 29 12:57 |
| schestowitz | And Novell employees attack Gnote too | May 29 12:57 |
| schestowitz | Which is funny cause hub comes from Novell | May 29 12:57 |
| schestowitz | No colleague of theirs anymore and he never likes Mono | May 29 12:57 |
| schestowitz | SLow, cumbersome | May 29 12:57 |
| ushimitsudoki | yup. if there was a similar project for f-spot or banshee it would be a real storm | May 29 12:57 |
| schestowitz | There might be | May 29 12:58 |
| schestowitz | Like, thanks for all the code, now we'll take the constructs and put that in clean form | May 29 12:59 |
| schestowitz | JIT-free | May 29 12:59 |
| schestowitz | Letting the Novellers do heavy lifting | May 29 12:59 |
| schestowitz | But Tomboy is not Novell | May 29 12:59 |
| schestowitz | It's a hobby of Sandy | May 29 12:59 |
| ushimitsudoki | tomboy is bad though, because it's got a lot of traction being part of gnome. I'm sure they'd like to see gnome as pure mono - in fact I seem to recall that talk long ago, but they've since backed away from being so overt about it | May 29 13:00 |
| schestowitz | Yes, but watch GNOME 3 | May 29 13:02 |
| schestowitz | Mockups and all | May 29 13:03 |
| schestowitz | People are disturbed to find Novell taking the lead | May 29 13:03 |
| schestowitz | Will Novell keep Mono out? | May 29 13:03 |
| schestowitz | I strongly doubt it | May 29 13:03 |
| schestowitz | Just watch what Linux project Novell is funding now | May 29 13:03 |
| schestowitz | Look who it's hiring | May 29 13:03 |
| ushimitsudoki | oh hell no Novell won't - Novell will push mono, even when it's not really wanted | May 29 13:03 |
| ushimitsudoki | For example, Linux Journal just did the user choice awards or whatever. Not a single mono app was a 1st choice (i think f-spot was honorable mentioned somewhere) - yet mono supports act like mono apps are popular and people are begging for them to be included | May 29 13:04 |
| ushimitsudoki | Banshee is perfect example | May 29 13:04 |
| ushimitsudoki | Rhythmbox won the user choice award - Banshee didn't even get mentioned. So who the hell exactly is pushing for Banshee to be the default player? And why? | May 29 13:05 |
| oiaohm | Lot of questions. | May 29 13:07 |
| oiaohm | Not many answers ushimitsudoki. | May 29 13:07 |
| oiaohm | Lot of itis C# coders basically the vb coders of today. Pushing them. Because C and C++ is too hard to learn. | May 29 13:08 |
| oiaohm | In there small minds. | May 29 13:08 |
| oiaohm | Yes it has not changed one bit. Just the language the cling to has changed. | May 29 13:08 |
| ushimitsudoki | You see my point though right? If Linux users were beating a path to Banshee, I could at least see the argument of making it the default. But the most popular choice is already the default (in Ubuntu), so why is the mono brigade trying to push Banshee into a space it's not wanted? I think that shows there are ulterior motives. It's *not* just about promoting technologies based on its merits | May 29 13:09 |
| oiaohm | I guess you don't remember all the VB coders back pre 2000 singing the prases of VB applications. | May 29 13:09 |
| oiaohm | That most coders and users thought were complete crap. | May 29 13:10 |
| schestowitz | zoobab01: I'm making an ogg of that video | May 29 13:10 |
| schestowitz | Is that OK? | May 29 13:10 |
| schestowitz | This way I can embed it in HTML and have no patent issue | May 29 13:11 |
| schestowitz | Let's keep an eye on the assessors of the Switzerland case too. | May 29 13:11 |
| oiaohm | ushimitsudoki: history repeats if you watch long enough. | May 29 13:11 |
| ushimitsudoki | Here is another example of mono-promoter hypocrisy: | May 29 13:13 |
| ushimitsudoki | "Where will Gnote go when (if?) it reaches feature parity with Tomboy? Continually exist as a catch-up clone, implementing Tomboy’s features as and when" - directhex on his blog | May 29 13:13 |
| schestowitz | Should be opposite | May 29 13:13 |
| ushimitsudoki | How is this *not* applicable to mono/moonlight? They are nothing but catch-up clones! | May 29 13:13 |
| schestowitz | When will Tomboy be as fast and light as gnote? | May 29 13:13 |
| schestowitz | Answer: never | May 29 13:13 |
| ushimitsudoki | two-faced irrationality | May 29 13:13 |
| schestowitz | It needs the Mono cow | May 29 13:13 |
| oiaohm | moonlight is doomed. | May 29 13:14 |
| oiaohm | Simple fact its too late of a idea. | May 29 13:14 |
| oiaohm | Flash and silverlight are heading to be passed over by w3c standards. | May 29 13:14 |
| ushimitsudoki | I almost posted on that junk on directhex's rant - I might hit it this weekend | May 29 13:14 |
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| oiaohm | The reason why adobe attacked a breach of there encrypted protocal. | May 29 13:15 |
| oiaohm | It is about the only thing that will be sellable from flash. | May 29 13:16 |
| ushimitsudoki | Here's another one from directhex blog rant: "Mono is 7 bloody years old now - how is it still causing controversy?" | May 29 13:16 |
| oiaohm | Because no one has cleared up the patent issue. | May 29 13:16 |
| ushimitsudoki | Because 7 years have passed and mono project can't give straight, satisfying answers to questions. Because 7 years passed and the behavior is still shady and offensive. | May 29 13:16 |
| oiaohm | And until someone does its screwed. | May 29 13:16 |
| oiaohm | Microsoft kinda did. | May 29 13:16 |
| oiaohm | Basically only person you get get it form and be legal is novell. | May 29 13:17 |
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| oiaohm | Really all distributions should do that stress there poor servers. | May 29 13:17 |
| ushimitsudoki | It's the old "tire 'em out" tactic. A business does something it knows is wrong - so it just keeps its head down, and moves forward anyway. It knows most people will eventually get tired. | May 29 13:17 |
| oiaohm | Or rebellion. | May 29 13:17 |
| oiaohm | gnote worries them it could be start of a rebellion so they wanted to crush it fast. | May 29 13:18 |
| ushimitsudoki | People get tired of the same topic, people need breaks and rests. It is very hard to outlast or win a war of attrition against a corporation - they never sleep, they never tire, and they rarely give up or apologize | May 29 13:18 |
| oiaohm | Open source is worse. | May 29 13:18 |
| oiaohm | outlast is one of open sources great powers. | May 29 13:19 |
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| schestowitz | Lawsuit Against Microsoft/Switzerland Succeeds So Far, More Countries/Companies Should Follow Suit < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/29/lawsuit-against-switzerland-over-ms/ > | May 29 13:22 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: agreed about Moonlight. YouTube will move to <video> | May 29 13:22 |
| schestowitz | I never use Flash for anything but video | May 29 13:22 |
| schestowitz | That would remove other obstacles from Free (proper) software adoption | May 29 13:22 |
| MinceR | http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0KryCmn4Bsg/Sh-sdrMHhOI/AAAAAAAACcw/ZOz6ViKvcJM/s1600-h/criminals1.jpg | May 29 13:23 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: re: Mono, it changed after the MS/Novell deal | May 29 13:23 |
| schestowitz | It spoke about Mono | May 29 13:23 |
| schestowitz | And Novell owns Mono | May 29 13:23 |
| schestowitz | Also, Miguel went the wrong way | May 29 13:23 |
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| schestowitz | He used to be cool with some GNU people | May 29 13:23 |
| schestowitz | At some stage he got MS-minded | May 29 13:23 |
| MinceR | but you said he always wanted to work for m$ | May 29 13:24 |
| schestowitz | He tried | May 29 13:24 |
| schestowitz | They didn't accept him | May 29 13:24 |
| MinceR | well now he does | May 29 13:25 |
| MinceR | through novell | May 29 13:25 |
| schestowitz | The old trolls are coming back: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/28/opensuse-forums-departures/#comments | May 29 13:34 |
| schestowitz | I think "lala" was one of the nyms of eet some years back | May 29 13:35 |
| schestowitz | We must have hit a nerve there if they suddenly start trolling again | May 29 13:35 |
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| ushimitsudoki | I'd be interested in seeing the reasoning behind the departures | May 29 13:35 |
| schestowitz | They state this | May 29 13:37 |
| schestowitz | Well, this one just follows another | May 29 13:37 |
| schestowitz | And he sort of explains why the main one left | May 29 13:38 |
| schestowitz | And I can't ask him because they know who I am. | May 29 13:38 |
| ushimitsudoki | the lizard blog says: "Today, Wolfgang Koller, the founder of former suselinuxsupport.de and one of the three Site Admins of the openSUSE forums, announced his immediate resignation" | May 29 13:39 |
| ushimitsudoki | where is that announcement? | May 29 13:39 |
| schestowitz | Linux finds a role in Australian prison cells < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25331/1054/ > Hostile headline | May 29 13:40 |
| schestowitz | schestowitz: let's find out | May 29 13:40 |
| schestowitz | Search SUSE Forums | May 29 13:40 |
| schestowitz | OSF | May 29 13:40 |
| schestowitz | To find latest post from Wolfgang Koller | May 29 13:40 |
| schestowitz | I bet it might be something like a personal relationship thing | May 29 13:41 |
| schestowitz | But it could be disguised | May 29 13:41 |
| schestowitz | Like "being too busy" or "moving on" | May 29 13:41 |
| schestowitz | Pooping on the launch of W-E's (aka Microsoft's) products... http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/29/windows-7-already-disappointing/ | May 29 13:43 |
| schestowitz | Time Warner dumping AOL < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25317/1054/ > | May 29 13:43 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft crowd makes a lot of noise over "bing" now | May 29 13:43 |
| schestowitz | Maybe they get their instructions from W-E | May 29 13:44 |
| schestowitz | $100,000,000 goes into m marketing of this garbage alone | May 29 13:44 |
| schestowitz | MSN rebranded | May 29 13:44 |
| schestowitz | Or Live | May 29 13:44 |
| schestowitz | Whatever... | May 29 13:44 |
| schestowitz | It's Dead. | May 29 13:44 |
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| ushimitsudoki | Here is the forum thread about it... not much news there: http://forums.opensuse.org/general-chit-chat/415296-time-say-goodbye-news-opensuse-org.html | May 29 13:46 |
| schestowitz | Industry Moves: Yahoo CFO Jorgensen Is Going Into The Jeans Business < http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-yahoo-cfo-jorgensen-goes-from-search-to-jeans/ > | May 29 13:50 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: thanks, looking. | May 29 13:50 |
| schestowitz | "No idea. I asked on lizards' comment space for the reasons, but no reply so far... Seems SUSE community is falling apart. People go away from forums, IRC, etc" | May 29 13:51 |
| schestowitz | Location: /dev/belgium | May 29 13:51 |
| schestowitz | No shill saying this | May 29 13:51 |
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| oiaohm | Just emails debian-legal over moonlight and mono. | May 29 13:51 |
| oiaohm | It will be fun If I can get mono and moonlight locked to the restricted branch for good. | May 29 13:52 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: likely | May 29 13:56 |
| oiaohm | If debian flip it to restricted ubuntu might change there location to. | May 29 13:58 |
| oiaohm | It could basicaly bring the mono push to a stand still. | May 29 13:58 |
| oiaohm | The art it working out the right point to hit. | May 29 13:59 |
| schestowitz | IDC: First quarter worst for servers in 12 years < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/28/idc_q12009_server_nums/ >. I don't believe IDC, but there you go. Barrel of salt, as always.. | May 29 14:00 |
| schestowitz | This might be good for server recycling | May 29 14:00 |
| schestowitz | Replacing existing aging s/w with Debian | May 29 14:00 |
| schestowitz | MS needs people to buy servers with Win' preinstalled | May 29 14:00 |
| oiaohm | Does not explain why redhat is doing record profits. | May 29 14:01 |
| schestowitz | Linux does not depend quite so much on it | May 29 14:01 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: maybe | May 29 14:01 |
| schestowitz | They sell support | May 29 14:01 |
| oiaohm | They don't count OS less severs sold. | May 29 14:01 |
| schestowitz | Nope | May 29 14:01 |
| oiaohm | IBM numbers are barely down. | May 29 14:01 |
| schestowitz | Just big vendors with preinstalls | May 29 14:01 |
| schestowitz | Like Microsoft wants them to | May 29 14:01 |
| oiaohm | Same with HP. | May 29 14:01 |
| schestowitz | It looks bad for Linux this way | May 29 14:01 |
| schestowitz | Share counted in $$ | May 29 14:01 |
| oiaohm | The numbers are basically bent. | May 29 14:02 |
| schestowitz | It's like saying, let's count the world's population in $$ | May 29 14:02 |
| oiaohm | Lot of Linux companes by the systems OS not installed. | May 29 14:02 |
| schestowitz | Then say... the US has twice the population ofg China. | May 29 14:02 |
| oiaohm | For a good reason. | May 29 14:02 |
| schestowitz | Netcraft is a lue too | May 29 14:02 |
| schestowitz | NetApps | May 29 14:02 |
| oiaohm | Ie how else can you make sure the machine is installed as per company spec. | May 29 14:02 |
| schestowitz | Lots of lies around us | May 29 14:02 |
| schestowitz | Like WoMD | May 29 14:02 |
| oiaohm | And not have server attacked as soon as it goes on line. | May 29 14:02 |
| schestowitz | Religion to an extent | May 29 14:03 |
| oiaohm | The update lag effect. | May 29 14:03 |
| schestowitz | Yeah. | May 29 14:03 |
| oiaohm | Installed at production by the time it gets to you many key updates can be missing. | May 29 14:03 |
| oiaohm | Major Linux runners prefer OS less so that don't happen. | May 29 14:04 |
| oiaohm | It turns up. The machine is installed with latest and brought on line. | May 29 14:04 |
| schestowitz | I'm tired of Apple/MS headlines.. Apple raises retail stakes against Microsoft < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/28/apple_retail_upgrade/ > Like a cock fight | May 29 14:04 |
| oiaohm | Of course | May 29 14:04 |
| schestowitz | Google vs Microsoft at least has some element of FOSS (Google's funding) | May 29 14:04 |
| oiaohm | Google also works on Linux kernel. | May 29 14:05 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 29 14:05 |
| schestowitz | Esp. now | May 29 14:05 |
| schestowitz | Android on ruged devices | May 29 14:05 |
| oiaohm | So not just funding some projects google decide to take a active hand in. | May 29 14:05 |
| schestowitz | *rugged | May 29 14:05 |
| schestowitz | Did you catch it on LinuxDevices yesterday? | May 29 14:05 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: Google has committed a lot to Apache for a long time | May 29 14:06 |
| schestowitz | Didn't they branch now? | May 29 14:06 |
| schestowitz | The stuff Netcraft detects.. | May 29 14:06 |
| Eruaran | good news | May 29 14:06 |
| schestowitz | Also Python and other stuff | May 29 14:06 |
| Eruaran | Australian scientists are weeks away from releasing a vaccine for the swine flu virus | May 29 14:06 |
| schestowitz | It goes back many years ago | May 29 14:06 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: meh.. | May 29 14:06 |
| Eruaran | I think its good | May 29 14:07 |
| oiaohm | I did catch Linuxdevices yesterday. | May 29 14:07 |
| Eruaran | It has started to spread in Melbourne | May 29 14:07 |
| oiaohm | So far I am still a few 100 kms away from infected cases. | May 29 14:07 |
| Eruaran | I have both good and scary news about my job | May 29 14:07 |
| schestowitz | Novell's results are in | May 29 14:07 |
| Eruaran | My superior is leaving | May 29 14:08 |
| schestowitz | Dell profits down, hopes up < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/28/dell_q1_fy2010/ > | May 29 14:08 |
| Eruaran | I have been asked to become a partner in the business and replace him | May 29 14:08 |
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| oiaohm | We have been stupid in Australia. | May 29 14:08 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: cool. | May 29 14:08 |
| schestowitz | Why? | May 29 14:08 |
| Eruaran | Its quite scary | May 29 14:08 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: why? | May 29 14:08 |
| oiaohm | We had the perfect defence from the flu. | May 29 14:08 |
| Eruaran | He's my friend who has always been there to rescue me when things get out of control | May 29 14:09 |
| oiaohm | Ie being a island. | May 29 14:09 |
| schestowitz | I'm sure you'll handle | May 29 14:09 |
| oiaohm | Yet we did not use it. | May 29 14:09 |
| schestowitz | MS throws no ropes | May 29 14:09 |
| schestowitz | Not even to Novell | May 29 14:09 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft needs more buckets | May 29 14:09 |
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| schestowitz | Bing bing bing went the string of my heart! Get that water off our boat.. | May 29 14:10 |
| Eruaran | They are pushing Bing now | May 29 14:10 |
| Eruaran | ahh | May 29 14:10 |
| schestowitz | It sucks | May 29 14:10 |
| schestowitz | MS Shill: Microsoft's Google challenger is not a search engine http://go.theregister.com/feed/www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/28/microsoft_bing/ | May 29 14:10 |
| schestowitz | W-E-esque marketing | May 29 14:11 |
| schestowitz | Get your curious | May 29 14:11 |
| oiaohm | Thing I am sure of is the flu at this stage is most likely not air born Eruaran. | May 29 14:11 |
| schestowitz | Wolfram-Alpha and Wikia tried similar things | May 29 14:11 |
| schestowitz | "we're different" | May 29 14:11 |
| schestowitz | "Try us..." | May 29 14:11 |
| Eruaran | I had a look at Wolfram-Alpha | May 29 14:11 |
| schestowitz | "It's better than Google" | May 29 14:11 |
| schestowitz | "Think different" (Apple) | May 29 14:11 |
| schestowitz | "it's not a PC" | May 29 14:11 |
| schestowitz | "it's a MAC" | May 29 14:11 |
| schestowitz | Errr... as in Mac-branded PC | May 29 14:11 |
| schestowitz | Critical Windows vulnerability under attack, Microsoft warns < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/28/critical_microsoft_directx_vulnerability/ > | May 29 14:12 |
| Eruaran | didnt do anything for me | May 29 14:12 |
| schestowitz | Yay! come and find harbour in Linux/UNIX. | May 29 14:12 |
| schestowitz | "Microsoft has warned of a critical security bug in older versions of its Windows operating system that is already being exploited in the wild to remotely execute malware on vulnerable machines." | May 29 14:13 |
| Eruaran | heh | May 29 14:14 |
| Eruaran | same old same old | May 29 14:14 |
| schestowitz | "For its quarter ended April 30, Novell sales fell by 8.5 per cent to $215.6m." | May 29 14:14 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: no, no.. | May 29 14:15 |
| schestowitz | "We're fixing it.." | May 29 14:15 |
| schestowitz | Vista7WillFixEverytthing{Tm} | May 29 14:15 |
| schestowitz | JustBearwithUs | May 29 14:15 |
| schestowitz | RealSoonNow | May 29 14:15 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/29/wikipedia_bans_scientology/ (Wikipedia bans Church of Scientology) | May 29 14:16 |
| oiaohm | Its a pitty the next X11 server has a 1 month delay. | May 29 14:16 |
| Eruaran | schestowitz: rofl | May 29 14:17 |
| schestowitz | Russian blows off ex-boyf's todger with firecrackers < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/29/russian_firecrackers/ >. Scary just to visualise it. | May 29 14:17 |
| schestowitz | "Intensive care operatives are fighting for Alik's life. Kira faces 12 years' hard time - even if her ex survives." | May 29 14:18 |
| Eruaran | imagine the look on his face as he watched his willeh fly through the air | May 29 14:19 |
| Eruaran | "OMG" | May 29 14:19 |
| schestowitz | More stupid weaponary for cowards: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8072143.stm | May 29 14:19 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: I think it blew up the bigger prick too (the person) | May 29 14:19 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, disgusting.... *shudder* | May 29 14:20 |
| schestowitz | But many women would just kill the guy, no messing about with metaphorical death | May 29 14:20 |
| schestowitz | The UK's obsession with Microsoft is about as sickening as Australia's: Sky puts content on Xbox console < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8070291.stm > | May 29 14:21 |
| schestowitz | The onyl English-speaking country that's an exception is SA and they too have Zulu | May 29 14:21 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: feel da slog: http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,28348,25554955-5014239,00.html | May 29 14:22 |
| schestowitz | More smears against sharing: Attempts to Et tu, KK? (aka, No, Kevin, this is not "socialism") < http://www.lessig.org/blog/2009/05/et_tu_kk_aka_no_kevin_this_is.html > | May 29 14:24 |
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| Eruaran | maybe google should change their home search page to a parody of "bing" and change "Google" to "Rebranded" | May 29 14:27 |
| Eruaran | Rebranded: we are cooler now | May 29 14:27 |
| oiaohm | https://www.fallingpixel.com/3d-models/4943 Australia has a way different looking AWACS | May 29 14:29 |
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| schestowitz | What's this rant about? | May 29 14:30 |
| schestowitz | http://jonreagan.wordpress.com/2009/05/28/its-time-for-change-part-i/ | May 29 14:30 |
| schestowitz | It demonises OOXML opposition? | May 29 14:30 |
| schestowitz | I mean, come on! | May 29 14:30 |
| schestowitz | And it criticises BN | May 29 14:30 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: just a ploy to get people to try to Binge [sic] | May 29 14:31 |
| Eruaran | schestowitz: did you do a post on the odfalliance's summary on MS-ODF ? | May 29 14:31 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: not sure many more planes will be built | May 29 14:31 |
| schestowitz | Not soon anyway | May 29 14:32 |
| schestowitz | Many airlines go out of business | May 29 14:32 |
| schestowitz | So there are more cruisers than people require | May 29 14:32 |
| schestowitz | The prices fall due to lowering demand, but still.. | May 29 14:32 |
| schestowitz | This wont offsets the costs of making new planes and buying hem | May 29 14:32 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: I did, yeah. | May 29 14:33 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: Ubuntu blog... | May 29 14:33 |
| schestowitz | They are sometimes ignorant wrt feeedom | May 29 14:33 |
| schestowitz | *freedom. | May 29 14:33 |
| schestowitz | Not fee-dom | May 29 14:33 |
| schestowitz | :-) | May 29 14:33 |
| schestowitz | If only they listened and learned about the context of things. | May 29 14:33 |
| oiaohm | That will makes the australian AWACS cheep. It can be retro fitted. | May 29 14:33 |
| schestowitz | Even Linus woke up a bit | May 29 14:33 |
| oiaohm | He is partly right. schestowitz we do need to get a bit better at hitting key locations and getting results. | May 29 14:34 |
| oiaohm | Of course tracking is part of it. But it a chess game we have to work out what the moves are about not just react to the moves. | May 29 14:35 |
| schestowitz | I don't understand fully | May 29 14:36 |
| oiaohm | You track cases of MS dumping. | May 29 14:36 |
| oiaohm | have been missing the internlink between cheep software to goverments and schools to extract money out of business. | May 29 14:37 |
| oiaohm | Funny enough money out of business comes out of goverment tax returns normally as assest depreaction. | May 29 14:37 |
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| oiaohm | MS is winning but goverments are suffering. | May 29 14:38 |
| oiaohm | The difference a complete overview of what the actions show schestowitz. | May 29 14:38 |
| schestowitz | Tomgram: Noam Chomsky, Unexceptional Americans < http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175073/noam_chomsky_unexceptional_americans > | May 29 14:39 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: econmic impact? | May 29 14:39 |
| schestowitz | The governments are people | May 29 14:39 |
| schestowitz | They get kickbacks and dinners | May 29 14:39 |
| schestowitz | If by governments you mean "country" or "taxpayers", then yes | May 29 14:40 |
| schestowitz | Compromise of a country for one's selfish beneifit | May 29 14:40 |
| oiaohm | Less tax also mean less money to bribe the people to get back in next time schestowitz. | May 29 14:40 |
| schestowitz | US Holds Journalist Without Charges in Iraq < http://www.truthout.org/052409B > | May 29 14:40 |
| oiaohm | Kickbacks and dinners does that mean anything if you don't get back in next time schestowitz. | May 29 14:42 |
| schestowitz | RMS links to these < http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/publish/article_1185.shtml > articles < http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=33656 > about suppression of opposition | May 29 14:42 |
| schestowitz | To what extent is this the case elsewhere? Who knows.... | May 29 14:42 |
| schestowitz | In the US they have laws to achieve this... arrest without charges. | May 29 14:42 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: not really | May 29 14:43 |
| schestowitz | I mean, maybe you don't explain it clearly. Maybe I'm stupid | May 29 14:43 |
| schestowitz | By tax, what do you mean? | May 29 14:43 |
| schestowitz | MS tax? | May 29 14:43 |
| schestowitz | Income tax? | May 29 14:43 |
| schestowitz | Tax on MS products? | May 29 14:43 |
| schestowitz | Tax havens for MS, like in Ireland? | May 29 14:43 |
| oiaohm | MS gets there money so goverments get less tax because businesses write the cost of software off like a asset schestowitz. | May 29 14:46 |
| schestowitz | Mixing of FOSS-- no victory: http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/05/28/if-open-source-has-won-then-where-do-we-go-from-here/ | May 29 14:51 |
| schestowitz | Turns out 451 blog RSS feed broke | May 29 14:51 |
| schestowitz | They didn't vanish | May 29 14:51 |
| oiaohm | Declaring battle over is still laugh at open soruce. | May 29 14:54 |
| schestowitz | Former Apple engineers at OQO call it quits < http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/05/22/former-apple-engineers-at-oqo-call-it-quits/ > | May 29 14:54 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yeah, it's all BS | May 29 14:54 |
| schestowitz | From IBMer | May 29 14:54 |
| schestowitz | Savio | May 29 14:54 |
| schestowitz | Who favours mixing | May 29 14:54 |
| schestowitz | Not FOSS at all | May 29 14:55 |
| schestowitz | And the Asay lackey now leans to MS' search experiment | May 29 14:55 |
| schestowitz | Some people care not at all about ethics | May 29 14:55 |
| schestowitz | They would hold the groceries for a car robber while he's breaking the door down | May 29 14:56 |
| oiaohm | Its desperation. MS is trying to get a truce. | May 29 14:57 |
| Eruaran | Distributions like Ubuntu will be in a stronger position than ever after the Windows 7 marketing hoopla has given way to the usual treadmill of insecurity, poor performance, unreliability etc... | May 29 14:59 |
| schestowitz | Romania Issues €100 Million To Microsoft Without Bids < http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/romania-issues--100-million-to-microsoft-without-bids-1003 > There should be legal action here. | May 29 15:00 |
| oiaohm | IBM is also trying to get MS to forget about open source. | May 29 15:04 |
| oiaohm | So they can market it without bias against it. | May 29 15:05 |
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| schestowitz | Linux Netbook Reviews: What The Wall Street Journal Missed < http://www.workswithu.com/2009/05/28/linux-netbook-reviews-what-the-wall-street-journal-missed/ > | May 29 15:11 |
| schestowitz | sjvn's pre/review of Fedora 11 is up: http://blogs.computerworld.com/fedora_11s_best_five_features | May 29 15:13 |
| schestowitz | US army just got Pwn3d. Article mentions viruses.. hmmm.. which OS?? http://www.informationweek.com/news/government/federal/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=217700619 | May 29 15:16 |
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| schestowitz | The stats say we had 29399 UIPs yesterday. This makes no sense. | May 29 15:29 |
| schestowitz | Maybe there was another DDoS attempt | May 29 15:29 |
| schestowitz | WTF... 35143/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/koffice-logo.png | May 29 15:30 |
| schestowitz | some hotlinking I reckon | May 29 15:31 |
| tacone | check the referrers | May 29 15:33 |
| schestowitz | "DON'T EXPECT the Indian tech sector to rebound until 2010, the outsourcing giant Infosys has warned." < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137570/indian-companies-wait-2010 > | May 29 15:33 |
| schestowitz | tacone: none in the logs | May 29 15:33 |
| schestowitz | tessier: is there an option of changing the log format to include referrer, browser stamp etc? | May 29 15:34 |
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| schestowitz | tacone: logs look like this: 76.199.182.169 - - [21/May/2009:15:29:01 -0700] "GET /wiki/skins/monobook/bullet.gif HTTP/1.1" 200 50 | May 29 15:35 |
| schestowitz | Ver simplistic format | May 29 15:35 |
| tacone | i have a sample of your logs | May 29 15:35 |
| tacone | i was checking myself | May 29 15:35 |
| tacone | yep, no refs. weird, those should be there by default. | May 29 15:35 |
| schestowitz | tacone: you mean the DDoS log | May 29 15:36 |
| tacone | yup | May 29 15:36 |
| schestowitz | tacone: there are different formats for logs | May 29 15:36 |
| schestowitz | I look into it back in 2004 or so | May 29 15:36 |
| tacone | i know | May 29 15:36 |
| schestowitz | What do you use to see trends? | May 29 15:37 |
| tacone | google analytics | May 29 15:37 |
| tacone | i also have analog 6.0 installed by my isp | May 29 15:37 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137516/it-windows "The difference, we assume, is that Microsoft has money to spend on promoting its products." | May 29 15:38 |
| schestowitz | "ASUSTEK HAS JOINED Microsoft in launching a marketing campaign to get netbook users to use Windows rather than dodgy old Linux." | May 29 15:38 |
| schestowitz | Like... | May 29 15:38 |
| tacone | the latter is useful to get things that analytics doesn't catch | May 29 15:38 |
| schestowitz | "Hey, here's some money, say Linux sucks" | May 29 15:38 |
| tacone | like ? | May 29 15:38 |
| tacone | :) | May 29 15:38 |
| schestowitz | Google analytics is off site | May 29 15:38 |
| schestowitz | And requires JS | May 29 15:38 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft has sunk very low | May 29 15:39 |
| schestowitz | Not only "recommends Windows" | May 29 15:39 |
| schestowitz | Not it's "better with Windows" | May 29 15:39 |
| schestowitz | To confuse sheepish buyers | May 29 15:39 |
| schestowitz | Blogger jailed for contempt < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137568/blogger-jailed-contempt > Freedom of sp%@# | May 29 15:41 |
| schestowitz | Old: Microsoft patents 'to-do' list < http://news.zdnet.co.uk/itmanagement/0,1000000308,39157145,00.htm > | May 29 15:46 |
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| schestowitz | Google nukes Norks < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/29/goole_nork/ > | May 29 15:50 |
| schestowitz | HP confirms job cuts will hit research labs < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/29/hp_labs_closure/ > | May 29 15:50 |
| schestowitz | Palm Pré plays nicely with iTunes < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/29/palm_pre/ > | May 29 15:51 |
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| DaemonFC | heh, nobody is in control of this state | May 29 15:55 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 29 15:55 |
| DaemonFC | The governor is fighting with his own party and the Democrats control just enough seats in the state house to block things | May 29 15:56 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 29 15:56 |
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| schestowitz | SiCortex died. http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/052809-scicortex-shutdown.html | May 29 16:06 |
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| mib_ng4suo | SUN VC | May 29 16:08 |
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| schestowitz | Sun Venture Capital? | May 29 16:21 |
| PetoKraus | schestowitz: did you see http://www.boingboing.net/2009/05/29/usa-canada-and-the-e.html | May 29 16:31 |
| PetoKraus | ? | May 29 16:31 |
| schestowitz | Haven't seen it yet, thanks. | May 29 16:32 |
| schestowitz | I'll post it later | May 29 16:32 |
| PetoKraus | yeah. thought it's worth linking to | May 29 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | Update: Also opposing rights for disabled people: Australia, New Zealand, the Vatican and Norway. | May 29 16:41 |
| DaemonFC | Update 2: Countries that are on the right side of this include, "Latin American and Caribbean region including (Uruguay, Argentina, Chile, Jamaica) as well as Asia and Africa." | May 29 16:41 |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 29 16:41 |
| DaemonFC | the Vatican doesn't surprise me, they usually oppose human rights | May 29 16:42 |
| DaemonFC | Why do people listen to a diamond encrusted gold plated former Nazi tell them that birth control is evil? | May 29 16:43 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think there's ever been a bigger disaster in the course of human history than the church | May 29 16:43 |
| schestowitz | Windows server revenue is down 29 percent | May 29 16:48 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: the Pope was in Hitler Youth, no? | May 29 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | not just that | May 29 16:50 |
| schestowitz | To be fair, the kids were pushed into it at the time. It was not choice. | May 29 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | he was also in the German army | May 29 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | The Catholic cult basically deify a man | May 29 16:51 |
| DaemonFC | and not even a good man | May 29 16:51 |
| schestowitz | Mu uncle is brainwashed, me thinkgs... | May 29 16:52 |
| schestowitz | >From about 1952 to the present day, the United States has been looked down | May 29 16:52 |
| schestowitz | upon and criticized by the rest of the world. | May 29 16:52 |
| schestowitz | Some of the negativity was justified, but rarely were any positives added to | May 29 16:52 |
| schestowitz | offset. | May 29 16:52 |
| schestowitz | What I’m focusing on is technology, and what it will do for mankind. | May 29 16:52 |
| schestowitz | Computers and the Internet developed right here in the U.S.A. and the impact | May 29 16:52 |
| schestowitz | has swept over the world and someday may be on the same or higher level than | May 29 16:52 |
| schestowitz | the Industrial Revolution. Moreover, that contribution alone, not even | May 29 16:52 |
| schestowitz | taking account advances in science, medicine, industry, agriculture and many | May 29 16:52 |
| schestowitz | other fields. | May 29 16:52 |
| schestowitz | The point is… if you have the time or the inclination, I would suggest you | May 29 16:52 |
| schestowitz | do an article on this subject, as you have much more knowledge of what the | May 29 16:52 |
| schestowitz | computer has done for us so far and what it is likely to do in the future. | May 29 16:52 |
| schestowitz | And please give credit to the United States for bringing this miracle to | May 29 16:52 |
| schestowitz | people all over the planet. | May 29 16:52 |
| DaemonFC | Pope Ratfinker | May 29 16:52 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 29 16:52 |
| schestowitz | I heard from friends at the gym that the US grows aware of the fact that part of the world resents it | May 29 16:53 |
| schestowitz | Not just those they they call them (e.g. Soviets) | May 29 16:53 |
| schestowitz | I thin Greece and Korea are those where they are disliked the most | May 29 16:54 |
| schestowitz | There were some surveys... stuff on YouTube also | May 29 16:54 |
| DaemonFC | every government on this planet is corrupt to some extent | May 29 16:54 |
| DaemonFC | the only ones that are labeled as such are done by the UN Corruption Index | May 29 16:54 |
| DaemonFC | which is ironic | May 29 16:54 |
| DaemonFC | considering how corrupt the UN is | May 29 16:54 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 29 16:55 |
| schestowitz | The least corrupt deserve credit | May 29 16:55 |
| schestowitz | Not credit in the debt sense | May 29 16:55 |
| DaemonFC | well, at least in Sweden, the fact that the judge was bribed and working for the industry came out | May 29 16:55 |
| DaemonFC | here they wouldn't even listen to an appeal based on those grounds | May 29 16:55 |
| DaemonFC | the copyright cartels won't stop til they rewrite the laws of evey coutnry | May 29 16:56 |
| DaemonFC | *country | May 29 16:56 |
| DaemonFC | unfortunately the RIAA effectively controls every record store and every radio station | May 29 16:57 |
| DaemonFC | that's the real reason they have declared war on the internet | May 29 16:58 |
| DaemonFC | they're afraid that some really good talent will be able to avoid signing with them and they will start to lose power and influence by siphoning off the artists revenue like the parasites they are | May 29 16:58 |
| DaemonFC | when you buy a CD, more money from that purchase goes to an RIAA lobbyist than the band that did the material for it | May 29 16:59 |
| DaemonFC | that's really unfortunate that good talent is locked up by a racketeering organization, but I'm not going to fund the corrupt organization to maybe give the artist a few pennies off the CD sale | May 29 17:00 |
| DaemonFC | so their support the artists argument is weak and amounts to holding them hostage | May 29 17:01 |
| DaemonFC | now the book publishing industry is an even bigger joke | May 29 17:02 |
| DaemonFC | as there's no way to DRM a book other than to stop making books | May 29 17:02 |
| DaemonFC | if there's even one physical copy, it can be scanned | May 29 17:02 |
| schestowitz | RIAA got caught in the US | May 29 17:10 |
| schestowitz | It changed judge | May 29 17:10 |
| schestowitz | To rif the outcome | May 29 17:10 |
| schestowitz | At least once | May 29 17:10 |
| schestowitz | 2008 | May 29 17:10 |
| DaemonFC | fuck them, if everyone refused to pay them they'd go under | May 29 17:10 |
| DaemonFC | instead everyone is worried about their own ass | May 29 17:10 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 29 17:10 |
| schestowitz | Use CC | May 29 17:10 |
| DaemonFC | which is why they stay | May 29 17:11 |
| schestowitz | I get my legally-sharable music | May 29 17:11 |
| schestowitz | And I happily Oggify my own CDs | May 29 17:11 |
| schestowitz | So I don't feed the beast | May 29 17:11 |
| DaemonFC | DRM is not just about copy restriction | May 29 17:11 |
| DaemonFC | they also want to kill off the used CD market | May 29 17:11 |
| schestowitz | It's limitation of playback | May 29 17:11 |
| schestowitz | Like expiration | May 29 17:11 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: yes, that too | May 29 17:11 |
| schestowitz | It's many thing | May 29 17:11 |
| schestowitz | It's reduction of durability of music | May 29 17:12 |
| schestowitz | So they you must increase consumption | May 29 17:12 |
| schestowitz | Planned obsolescence | May 29 17:12 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, digital music got them in a whole heap of trouble | May 29 17:12 |
| DaemonFC | magnetic tapes degraded | May 29 17:12 |
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| DaemonFC | I don't think they knew what they were getting themselves into when they came up with MP3 | May 29 17:16 |
| DaemonFC | actually, I don't even think they had music in mind | May 29 17:16 |
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| DaemonFC | I don't know that there are too many advantages to Vorbis vs MP3, Vorbis may have a few minor technological advantages, but it's not really supported well on portable players | May 29 17:20 |
| DaemonFC | you have to get a no name player or flash firmware | May 29 17:20 |
| DaemonFC | and that can easily brick the device | May 29 17:20 |
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| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Wikipedia is saying that the Zune Store now sells real MP3 files with no DRM | May 29 17:22 |
| DaemonFC | is that true? | May 29 17:22 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, they have some interesting ideas that Apple's itunes store doesn't | May 29 17:23 |
| DaemonFC | but that all comes back to whether people actually buy any of their music | May 29 17:23 |
| DaemonFC | I've been thinking of going with WIMAX, it's more expensive and I have to bolt an antenna on the house, but it would get me away from Comcast | May 29 17:25 |
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| schestowitz | DaemonFC: MS caving? | May 29 17:34 |
| schestowitz | Maybe they have no choice but to annoy the MAFIAA a little | May 29 17:34 |
| schestowitz | I don't understand Zune HD | May 29 17:34 |
| schestowitz | Waste of money | May 29 17:34 |
| schestowitz | It has no chance of bringing an upturn | May 29 17:35 |
| schestowitz | Surely not in such economic times | May 29 17:35 |
| schestowitz | MS launched Bing AND | May 29 17:35 |
| schestowitz | Cancels Iowa DC | May 29 17:35 |
| schestowitz | So... | May 29 17:35 |
| schestowitz | IOW, they have not increased capacity | May 29 17:35 |
| schestowitz | Just $100m in marketing new names and offering Slogs | May 29 17:35 |
| schestowitz | And Mossberg is now licking some Microsoft boots | May 29 17:35 |
| *schestowitz starts making 2 posts that will make Novell bashful | May 29 17:36 | |
| schestowitz | It's offshoring and failing | May 29 17:36 |
| *Eruaran has quit ("No Ping reply in 90 seconds.") | May 29 17:38 | |
| *Eruaran (n=quassel@183.110.208.203.cable.dyn.gex.ncable.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell | May 29 17:39 | |
| DaemonFC | Zune HD, you have to be High or Deaf to enjoy it | May 29 17:40 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 29 17:40 |
| DaemonFC | they keep paying minions at CNET to suggest that the Zune is something for Apple to be afraid of | May 29 17:42 |
| DaemonFC | at this rate, Microsoft will have 50% of the market by 2056 | May 29 17:43 |
| DaemonFC | assuming it grows like it has been, unstopped :P | May 29 17:43 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Zune HD has an HD radio receiver, so I can enjoy all 1 stations that broadcast in that format within range of this town | May 29 17:45 |
| DaemonFC | yay | May 29 17:45 |
| DaemonFC | that's $500 well spent | May 29 17:45 |
| DaemonFC | wouldn't you say? | May 29 17:45 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 29 17:45 |
| DaemonFC | seriously, 1 station in range of me | May 29 17:46 |
| DaemonFC | and like 3 in the state | May 29 17:46 |
| DaemonFC | talk about a WTF moment | May 29 17:46 |
| DaemonFC | WTF were they thinking? | May 29 17:46 |
| DaemonFC | "Currently videos purchased via the Xbox can't be played on a Zune, although both stores use a similar back-end infrastructure to serve up content. Over time, Stephenson said the goal is to move toward a world in which content purchased once can be played on a variety of devices. " | May 29 17:46 |
| DaemonFC | You have to be shitting me | May 29 17:47 |
| DaemonFC | strip the DRM tag and it'll play on anything | May 29 17:47 |
| DaemonFC | easy | May 29 17:47 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 29 17:47 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, I was wrong, there's a few more now | May 29 17:49 |
| DaemonFC | must be new | May 29 17:49 |
| DaemonFC | yay I can listen to AM talk raidio on my Zune HD | May 29 17:49 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 29 17:49 |
| DaemonFC | Rush Limbaugh in HD clarity | May 29 17:50 |
| DaemonFC | Rush Limbaugh tripped out n Oxycontin in HD clarity | May 29 17:50 |
| DaemonFC | too cool | May 29 17:50 |
| *neighborlee has quit ("Leaving") | May 29 17:50 | |
| DaemonFC | http://www.opioids.com/oxycodone/rushlimbaugh.html | May 29 17:51 |
| DaemonFC | If you believe a woman named Wilma Cline, the nationally syndicated radio personality Rush Limbaugh would drive three miles from his $23 million Palm Beach, Fla., estate to a Denny's parking lot so that she could hand over a cigar box concealing dozens of tiny prescription painkillers. The loquacious Limbaugh, his housekeeper says, was often high on "hillbilly heroin." | May 29 17:51 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ9efgBt2Y8&feature=related | May 29 17:56 |
| DaemonFC | nice | May 29 17:56 |
| DaemonFC | they should have just let GM go into bankruptcy and be dismantled and whatever asset they had sent out to creditors and shareholders | May 29 17:58 |
| DaemonFC | instead they now have Government Motors | May 29 17:58 |
| DaemonFC | the warning signs have been there, even in the news since at least 5-6 years ago that GM was going to collapse | May 29 18:00 |
| DaemonFC | the Republicans downplayed it because as long as they could shove the bad news under the rug, they'd keep getting elected | May 29 18:01 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think they realized it would implode before this last election | May 29 18:01 |
| DaemonFC | between the government and the union, they'll own 87.5% of GM | May 29 18:02 |
| DaemonFC | it's communism, yay | May 29 18:03 |
| schestowitz | Novell Falls 5% After News of Lowered Sales, Key Products Failing to Produce Profit < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/29/novell-revenue-falls-novl-5-pct/ > | May 29 18:03 |
| schestowitz | CNET is pro-MS | May 29 18:03 |
| schestowitz | But they also get money from Apple | May 29 18:03 |
| schestowitz | So think of them as money whores | May 29 18:04 |
| schestowitz | Not CBS IIRC | May 29 18:04 |
| schestowitz | *LOL* Government Motors | May 29 18:04 |
| schestowitz | Fedral Lada | May 29 18:04 |
| DaemonFC | the US Treasury has basically seized GM and Chrysler | May 29 18:05 |
| DaemonFC | they own enough of both of them to veto anything their remaining stockholders put forth | May 29 18:05 |
| DaemonFC | the treasury fired GM's CEO in March | May 29 18:06 |
| DaemonFC | so yeah, Government Motors | May 29 18:06 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: The most disturbing bit is the violation of the Posse Comitatus Act | May 29 18:07 |
| DaemonFC | when active duty soldiers are given a standing mission on US soil this year | May 29 18:07 |
| DaemonFC | assigned to NORTHCOM | May 29 18:07 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act#Homeland_security | May 29 18:08 |
| DaemonFC | they're moving the US military in to use for crowd control | May 29 18:09 |
| DaemonFC | they're expecting riots apparently | May 29 18:09 |
| DaemonFC | there were other bits in that legislation which makes legal foreign soldiers on US soil for that type of "assistance" | May 29 18:10 |
| DaemonFC | it's pretty scary really | May 29 18:10 |
| DaemonFC | it's no wonder people are stocking up on weapons and ammunition | May 29 18:10 |
| DaemonFC | I can't say that's a bad idea when our government is getting ready to declare martial law and allow foriegn occupation | May 29 18:11 |
| DaemonFC | the FEMA Death Camp theory suggests that the foreign troops would run the ovens and gas chambers | May 29 18:14 |
| DaemonFC | I don't know about that part | May 29 18:14 |
| DaemonFC | http://cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=45206 | May 29 18:16 |
| DaemonFC | "The troops were apparently not deployed by the request of Alabama Gov. Bob Riley -- or by the request of President Obama, as required by law. " | May 29 18:16 |
| DaemonFC | "Because you signed up to test the Windows 7 Beta, we recently sent you mail about the expiration dates for the Beta and Release Candidate. Unfortunately, we made a mistake. | May 29 18:26 |
| DaemonFC | We said the Beta would start shutting down every two hours on June 1, 2009. The correct date is July 1, 2009" | May 29 18:26 |
| DaemonFC | The rest of the dates in the mail were correct. Here’s a quick summary: | May 29 18:26 |
| DaemonFC | Beta: Starts shutting down every two hours: July 1, 2009 Expires: August 1, 2009 | May 29 18:26 |
| DaemonFC | Release Candidate: Starts shutting down every two hours: March 1, 2010 Expires June 1, 2010 | May 29 18:26 |
| DaemonFC | We apologize for the error and any confusion it may have caused. | May 29 18:27 |
| DaemonFC | Thanks again for helping us test Windows 7. | May 29 18:27 |
| schestowitz | Just more Vista junk | May 29 18:27 |
| schestowitz | It gets havier over time | May 29 18:27 |
| schestowitz | More fat | May 29 18:27 |
| schestowitz | I enjoy just watching it sink as the world goes by | May 29 18:28 |
| schestowitz | Linux sales are up | May 29 18:28 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft down SHARPLY | May 29 18:28 |
| DaemonFC | nah, Windows 7 is not slower, but it's not faster, and everything important will be backported | May 29 18:28 |
| DaemonFC | so I'm not really seeing any reason why anyone would buy it | May 29 18:28 |
| schestowitz | It has wallpapers | May 29 18:28 |
| schestowitz | I told you already !1 :-) | May 29 18:28 |
| schestowitz | The wallpaper, Ryan, the wallpapers... | May 29 18:28 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: You can even use the new theme and the "Superbar" in Vista | May 29 18:29 |
| schestowitz | Why would people even depart from XP | May 29 18:29 |
| schestowitz | ? | May 29 18:29 |
| DaemonFC | by patching a few system files | May 29 18:29 |
| schestowitz | They can just channge some INIs to even get DX10 in XP | May 29 18:29 |
| DaemonFC | no different than loading an unsigned theme really | May 29 18:29 |
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| DaemonFC | no, DirectX 10 relies on WDDM drivers | May 29 18:29 |
| DaemonFC | you can kind of make it work in XP | May 29 18:29 |
| DaemonFC | but performance is much worse | May 29 18:29 |
| DaemonFC | I've gone through just to see if I could make it work | May 29 18:30 |
| DaemonFC | the framerate takes a terrible hit | May 29 18:30 |
| DaemonFC | and it can make the application unstable | May 29 18:30 |
| DaemonFC | backporting DirectX 10 would have required backporting the entire display driver model | May 29 18:31 |
| schestowitz | Novell Outsources Provo (Utah) Staff < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/29/novell-outsourcing-2009/ > | May 29 18:32 |
| schestowitz | News from the Fingerprint Biometrics World http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/05/news_from_the_f.html | May 29 18:34 |
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| DaemonFC | the new driver model would have basically amounted to remodeling Windows XP while it was already 6 years old | May 29 18:34 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat To Deliver Technology Strategy Announcement Via Webcast on June 1 < http://www.businesswire.com/news/google/20090529005072/en > | May 29 18:35 |
| schestowitz | wb, Carl_Rover2k12 | May 29 18:35 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: lunchbreak I suppose | May 29 18:35 |
| DaemonFC | there's a number of logistical reasons DirectX 10 was not backported | May 29 18:35 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: it was to push users and developers onto Vista | May 29 18:36 |
| DaemonFC | especially as an in-place upgrade | May 29 18:36 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 29 18:36 |
| DaemonFC | it would have required new driver model, new drivers, lots of stuff | May 29 18:36 |
| DaemonFC | and would have almost certainly broke millions of in place installations | May 29 18:36 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: DirectX 10 is more inline with the XNA API thats on the Xbox360 | May 29 18:37 |
| DaemonFC | thenif they did it for XP, they'd have to support it on Windows 2003 as well | May 29 18:37 |
| DaemonFC | logistical nightmare.... | May 29 18:37 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: Windows Server 2k3 is like Vista | May 29 18:37 |
| DaemonFC | it would be worse than having to support two dozen IE configurations | May 29 18:38 |
| schestowitz | Guatemala: Conversation With @Jeanfer, Twitterer Facing Up to 10 Years In Prison for One Tweet. http://www.boingboing.net/2009/05/27/guatemala-conversati.html | May 29 18:38 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: thats like comparing Windows 2000 to XP | May 29 18:38 |
| DaemonFC | no it's not like Vista | May 29 18:38 |
| DaemonFC | I have Windows 2003, it's more like XP than Vista | May 29 18:38 |
| DaemonFC | DirectX 11 will be on Vista though | May 29 18:38 |
| DaemonFC | that's a relatively simple backport | May 29 18:39 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: and this is why I'de use IRC over any centralized web service | May 29 18:39 |
| DaemonFC | you can get a beta by installing the November 2008 DirectX SDK | May 29 18:39 |
| DaemonFC | but you have to specifically call DirectX 11 because this version doesn't overwrite DirectX 10 | May 29 18:39 |
| DaemonFC | final verson will | May 29 18:39 |
| schestowitz | The Disease of Permanent War - Is It Really Worth the Cost to You, or Humanity in General? < http://www.care2.com/news/member/760164053/1146503 > | May 29 18:40 |
| DaemonFC | there's a number of things in DX 11 that will help performance on older cards and games | May 29 18:40 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: why do you mean? | May 29 18:40 |
| DaemonFC | obviously you'd need a new GPU to use all of it though | May 29 18:40 |
| schestowitz | Like work | May 29 18:40 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: meh, OpenGL v2.1 satisfies most 3D and physic engine developing needs | May 29 18:40 |
| schestowitz | And eavesdropping tools? | May 29 18:40 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: well IRC can be ease dropped, but thats only if you know which server and room the user is on | May 29 18:41 |
| schestowitz | Yes, indeed | May 29 18:41 |
| schestowitz | USENET too | May 29 18:41 |
| schestowitz | They try to phase out USENET | May 29 18:41 |
| schestowitz | It's 'too' decentralised | May 29 18:41 |
| schestowitz | Most P2P protocols... | May 29 18:41 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: Twitter is more like Facebook or Myspace where everything is stored on a single or a group of servers with a similar address | May 29 18:42 |
| schestowitz | "Can't be logged" -> "used by terrorists" somehow | May 29 18:42 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: well thats a give but thats mean if you whisper, "the terrorists will win" | May 29 18:42 |
| schestowitz | That's the FUD anyway... how they shut down services | May 29 18:42 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: well, they do win IF | May 29 18:43 |
| schestowitz | Their intent it to terrorise | May 29 18:43 |
| schestowitz | Or disrupt | May 29 18:43 |
| schestowitz | If they raise fear, they win | May 29 18:43 |
| schestowitz | If services are shot down, they win | May 29 18:43 |
| schestowitz | The best way to counter is to live normal | May 29 18:43 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: well that all depends on who it also benefits | May 29 18:43 |
| schestowitz | Not to go frantic and pass PAT-RIOT!#@ | May 29 18:43 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, well, they said that terrorists were using Hotmail | May 29 18:43 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 29 18:43 |
| DaemonFC | of course they can spy on that | May 29 18:44 |
| schestowitz | They use pens too | May 29 18:44 |
| DaemonFC | so it won't be shut down | May 29 18:44 |
| schestowitz | And they east in restaurants. | May 29 18:44 |
| schestowitz | *gasp* | May 29 18:44 |
| schestowitz | Scary, eh? | May 29 18:44 |
| schestowitz | /s/east/eat/ | May 29 18:44 |
| schestowitz | Hold KBR/Halliburton War Profiteers Accountable < http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/kbr/?rc=homepage > | May 29 18:44 |
| schestowitz | Sued for abuse: UK Home Secretary faces flak over fresh MI5 torture allegations < http://silverscorpio.com/uk-home-secretary-faces-flak-over-fresh-mi5-torture-allegations/ > | May 29 18:45 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: I hope those aren't the same faulty wires that cost the lives of a few soldiers who got electrocuted while taking a shower | May 29 18:45 |
| schestowitz | Does the law permit them to torture without reason? I think not, that's why they get sued. Well, good luck suing the LAW (police, secret services) | May 29 18:45 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: "The Nation has issued a chilling report based on evidence revealed this week. Eighteen U.S. soldiers have died as a result of KBR's work. One of the electrocuted soldiers was a decorated Green Beret whose death was classified by the U.S. Army Criminal Investigations Division as a "negligent homicide." " | May 29 18:46 |
| schestowitz | FTA | May 29 18:46 |
| schestowitz | Holy cra*pola | May 29 18:46 |
| schestowitz | So much of a slog for B*ng today | May 29 18:47 |
| *mtnd3w (n=mtnd3w@cpe-74-65-216-135.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #boycottnovell | May 29 18:47 | |
| schestowitz | The whole MS/W-E club goes rumpy | May 29 18:47 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: they also say that the toxic waste created by these large bases are making surrounding Iraqis as well as the soldiers stationed sick | May 29 18:47 |
| schestowitz | Operation Slog4Bing | May 29 18:47 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: maybe they should sent GWB with his full combat gear over there | May 29 18:48 |
| schestowitz | Not to the carriers where he cowardly takes cover in the back seat of a jet | May 29 18:48 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: flying a fighter jet during combat sorties is not cowardly | May 29 18:49 |
| schestowitz | Holy cr*p | May 29 18:49 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: but GWB was in the air national guard | May 29 18:49 |
| schestowitz | Like 80& of the MS blogs is B*ing this and that | May 29 18:49 |
| schestowitz | What a slog | May 29 18:49 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: and unlike other national guard troops was not sent to Vietnam. | May 29 18:49 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 29 18:50 |
| schestowitz | Chickenhawk | May 29 18:50 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: it's hard to search videos and segments, but have a look at http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=Chalmers+Johnson&aq=f | May 29 18:50 |
| schestowitz | He makes some points about Bush in the plane and makes a WW2 comparison | May 29 18:51 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: GWB was in a Champagne Unit | May 29 18:51 |
| schestowitz | When leaders are made analogous to soldiers | May 29 18:51 |
| DaemonFC | full of celebrities and Senators sons | May 29 18:51 |
| DaemonFC | Bush wasn't a soldier, they gave him a uniform and hid him on an air national guard base with planes that were way too old to be sent to Vietnam | May 29 18:52 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: I don't remember FDR shooting a rifle with one arm or piloting an airplane, no "Mission Accomplished" sign either propped up after D Day | May 29 18:52 |
| DaemonFC | he had precisely 0% chance of ever being shot at | May 29 18:52 |
| DaemonFC | that's what you get for being rich and having politcally connected parents | May 29 18:53 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: well he could have been shot down, due to friendly fire | May 29 18:53 |
| DaemonFC | during a training exercise? | May 29 18:53 |
| DaemonFC | they used blanks | May 29 18:53 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: yea, what if one of the Nike Missiles had a malfunction and went off while he was training | May 29 18:53 |
| schestowitz | Same with peers of Bush | May 29 18:53 |
| DaemonFC | now they use laser targeting and simulated ammunition | May 29 18:53 |
| DaemonFC | they don't even fire anything | May 29 18:53 |
| schestowitz | None of his cabinet was truly in battle | May 29 18:53 |
| schestowitz | Same for their families | May 29 18:53 |
| schestowitz | What about Kerry? | May 29 18:54 |
| schestowitz | Was he in combat? | May 29 18:54 |
| DaemonFC | John Kerry was a soldier | May 29 18:54 |
| DaemonFC | and in combat | May 29 18:54 |
| schestowitz | OK | May 29 18:54 |
| *mib_00dilk has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | May 29 18:54 | |
| DaemonFC | and the Bushies managed to dishonor him and ridicule him | May 29 18:54 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: yep, and it was a major problem according to Swift Boat Veterans of whatever | May 29 18:54 |
| DaemonFC | even though Bush was a coward and a draft dodger | May 29 18:54 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: its not like Kerry was all that compelling | May 29 18:54 |
| DaemonFC | well, he didn't run away | May 29 18:55 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: they both went to Bildeburg afterall | May 29 18:55 |
| DaemonFC | that at leas tmakes him better than Bush | May 29 18:55 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: heard about MS server profits going down 29%? | May 29 18:55 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 29 18:55 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: nope | May 29 18:55 |
| schestowitz | They break apart | May 29 18:55 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: I didn't know M$ made their own servers | May 29 18:55 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft is too expensive and heavy handed | May 29 18:55 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: bundling | May 29 18:55 |
| schestowitz | With h/w | May 29 18:55 |
| schestowitz | Overpriced | May 29 18:56 |
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| schestowitz | DaemonFC: Vista servers | May 29 18:56 |
| DaemonFC | nobody likes the idea of a malfunction in WGA shutting their server down unexpectedly | May 29 18:56 |
| DaemonFC | so yeah, no shit | May 29 18:56 |
| schestowitz | 2008.. | May 29 18:56 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: don't worry, z00000000n! will save the day :P | May 29 18:56 |
| schestowitz | For $2008 | May 29 18:56 |
| schestowitz | :-o | May 29 18:56 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I have Server 2008 | May 29 18:56 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: Zune is a cash cow I tells ya! | May 29 18:56 |
| DaemonFC | it is much better than Vista in a number of ways | May 29 18:56 |
| schestowitz | It just eats up all the grass | May 29 18:56 |
| DaemonFC | but it's not really something you want to use on a home PC | May 29 18:57 |
| schestowitz | Then they find out it's a mail | May 29 18:57 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: you mean as in taking in a lot of cash and never putting out :P | May 29 18:57 |
| schestowitz | So no tits, no milk | May 29 18:57 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | lol | May 29 18:57 |
| schestowitz | Just hundreds of millions in losses | May 29 18:57 |
| schestowitz | /mail/male/ | May 29 18:57 |
| DaemonFC | Server 2008 is like an unbloated Vista with the layout of Windows 2003 and Hyper-V | May 29 18:57 |
| DaemonFC | if it wasn't so damned expensive it would do better | May 29 18:58 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: so same old drek then | May 29 18:58 |
| DaemonFC | but they'll never ratchet down the pricing | May 29 18:58 |
| schestowitz | Just go for Red hat and KVM | May 29 18:58 |
| schestowitz | Or CentOS if you want to save money | May 29 18:58 |
| schestowitz | The invoice might not impressed the boss | May 29 18:58 |
| DaemonFC | I was actually impressed with Server 2008 | May 29 18:58 |
| DaemonFC | just not the pricing | May 29 18:58 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: get the zombie SCO OS | May 29 18:58 |
| schestowitz | Who thinks YouGetWhatYouPayFor{Tm} | May 29 18:58 |
| DaemonFC | I would never pay that to run a server | May 29 18:58 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: we get it. You use WIndows and like it. | May 29 18:59 |
| DaemonFC | their pricing is killing them, that's what's doing it | May 29 18:59 |
| schestowitz | Downtime | May 29 18:59 |
| DaemonFC | the recession shrinks IT budgets and all the white elephants (Windows Servers) have to go | May 29 19:00 |
| schestowitz | Viruses.... | May 29 19:00 |
| schestowitz | Even MS can't secure its wares | May 29 19:00 |
| schestowitz | Nor can the FBI.. | May 29 19:00 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: and the fact that they never trust their consumers with constant bugging to report "Genuine Certification" and other WGA checks doesn't? | May 29 19:00 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_elephant | May 29 19:00 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 29 19:00 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: its because M$ is getting grants to make backdoors for the FBI, NSA and ect | May 29 19:00 |
| DaemonFC | cost is most of it | May 29 19:00 |
| DaemonFC | WGA is probably right behind cost | May 29 19:00 |
| DaemonFC | in reasons management sees to get rid of Windows servers | May 29 19:01 |
| DaemonFC | that's never been proven | May 29 19:01 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: its so open their is open source software that helps you extract long deleted files and other personal info, its for "law enforcement" purposes of course. http://www.opensourceforensics.org/tools/windows.html | May 29 19:01 |
| DaemonFC | file systems traditionally haven't shredded file data on delete | May 29 19:02 |
| schestowitz | Yes, gets worse with Vista | May 29 19:02 |
| schestowitz | It's a feature... | May 29 19:02 |
| DaemonFC | it would make routine disk operations much slower | May 29 19:02 |
| schestowitz | Not to the user | May 29 19:02 |
| DaemonFC | you can use file shredders though | May 29 19:02 |
| schestowitz | Few would | May 29 19:02 |
| schestowitz | MS can phone home if you run these too | May 29 19:02 |
| *magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection) | May 29 19:02 | |
| DaemonFC | GNU Shred is included in any Linux distribution | May 29 19:02 |
| DaemonFC | but it's useless if you use full journaling | May 29 19:03 |
| DaemonFC | Ordered and Writeback will work fine with it though | May 29 19:03 |
| DaemonFC | Ext3 defaults to Ordered | May 29 19:03 |
| DaemonFC | and if you don't use EFS, you can still use Truecrypt on Windows | May 29 19:04 |
| schestowitz | The MSFTer start trolling Google: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=2917 She cites a former MS emplotyee | May 29 19:04 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft has no way of writing backdoors into Truecrypt | May 29 19:04 |
| DaemonFC | if you're paranoid | May 29 19:04 |
| schestowitz | There is a massive B*ng Slog going on today. Do Waggener Edstrom and Microsoft use up that $100m so fast? | May 29 19:05 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: they spend $100m on that? | May 29 19:06 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: I guess they are not familiar with the concept of fanboys | May 29 19:06 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: well its not as if Truecrypt was written by M$ and is included with the OS on installation | May 29 19:09 |
| nicktastic | MS can't backdoor TrueCrypt but it could intercept standard API calls and sniff your keys | May 29 19:09 |
| DaemonFC | "The TrueCrypt software is under an extremely poor license, which is not only non-free, but actively dangerous to end users who agree to it, opening them to possible legal action even if they abide by all of the licensing terms. Fedora made extensive efforts to try to work with the TrueCrypt upstream to fix these mistakes in their license, but was unsuccessful. Fedora Suggests: Avoid this... | May 29 19:13 |
| DaemonFC | ...software entirely." | May 29 19:13 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 29 19:13 |
| *nicktastic laughs. | May 29 19:14 | |
| nicktastic | Linux's crypto facilities are almost as nice, anyway. And some of TC's fancier features don't really provide additional security. | May 29 19:14 |
| DaemonFC | child porn sites in Germany use Truecrypt volumes | May 29 19:14 |
| DaemonFC | they have a pretty extensive setup designed to obfuscate their servers and make them look innocuous | May 29 19:15 |
| schestowitz | Fans decry tennis gal's breast-slash plan < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/29/simon_halep/ > | May 29 19:15 |
| DaemonFC | they bounce requests off Russian proxy servers with logging disabled | May 29 19:16 |
| DaemonFC | and if anything but that server tries to access the one in Germany, it immediately unmounts the truecrypt drive | May 29 19:16 |
| nicktastic | Which begs the question... | May 29 19:17 |
| DaemonFC | ? | May 29 19:17 |
| nicktastic | How do you know this? ;) | May 29 19:17 |
| DaemonFC | I read | May 29 19:17 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 29 19:17 |
| DaemonFC | I was reading how they operate | May 29 19:18 |
| DaemonFC | apparently most servers actually hosting that are in Germany | May 29 19:18 |
| DaemonFC | but are never accessed directly | May 29 19:18 |
| DaemonFC | yes it's illegal there, but they hide from the authorities under the guise of legitimate websites | May 29 19:19 |
| schestowitz | Linux Unified Kernel Aims to Combine Linux, NT Kernel < http://www.osnews.com/story/21573/Linux_Unified_Kernel_Aims_to_Combine_Linux_NT_Kernel >. Pointless? | May 29 19:19 |
| nicktastic | Useless for driver support | May 29 19:19 |
| nicktastic | Otherwise just use wine | May 29 19:19 |
| nicktastic | er | May 29 19:19 |
| nicktastic | Useful for driver support | May 29 19:19 |
| schestowitz | They seem incapable | May 29 19:19 |
| schestowitz | Of publicity and stuff | May 29 19:19 |
| schestowitz | Announcements only appear in some forumms | May 29 19:19 |
| schestowitz | I didn't even know what this project was | May 29 19:20 |
| schestowitz | Maybe trademark issues... | May 29 19:20 |
| nicktastic | The wikipedia page is quite clear | May 29 19:20 |
| DaemonFC | the unified kernel would then be illegal to distribute | May 29 19:20 |
| DaemonFC | but they're Chinese, so they don't worry about that :P | May 29 19:20 |
| nicktastic | Maybe, maybe not | May 29 19:21 |
| DaemonFC | oh, they're using ReactOS for the NT Kernel | May 29 19:21 |
| DaemonFC | not the actual Microsoft files | May 29 19:21 |
| DaemonFC | that's.....interesting | May 29 19:21 |
| DaemonFC | that's very interesting | May 29 19:22 |
| nicktastic | Indeedd | May 29 19:22 |
| DaemonFC | have cake and eat it too if ReactOS ever gets decent compatibility with Windows | May 29 19:22 |
| DaemonFC | means Linux would instanttly be Windows compatible too | May 29 19:22 |
| schestowitz | LHC is coming back.. All I Want For Christmas Is...To Be Sucked Into A Black Hole? < http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/all-i-want-christmas-isto-be-sucked-black-hole > | May 29 19:23 |
| DaemonFC | which means that you could migrate all your Windows apps over to Linux with no modification required | May 29 19:23 |
| DaemonFC | that would be pretty cool | May 29 19:23 |
| schestowitz | Linux-powered anyway | May 29 19:23 |
| nicktastic | The ReactOS stuff is probably for the driver support. They probably depend on wine for running applications. | May 29 19:23 |
| DaemonFC | well, it would also solve the Linux driver problems | May 29 19:23 |
| DaemonFC | in theory | May 29 19:23 |
| nicktastic | So for most people it will be the same as running wine | May 29 19:23 |
| DaemonFC | since you could just retask all your Windows drivers for Linux | May 29 19:23 |
| nicktastic | I haven't had driver problems in Linux for a long, long time | May 29 19:24 |
| DaemonFC | Linus Torvalds would have a shit fit over GPL violations though | May 29 19:24 |
| DaemonFC | he already spazzed out just over NDISwrapper | May 29 19:24 |
| nicktastic | hehe He thinks nvidia taints the kernel. Honey, you ain't seen nothin yet. | May 29 19:25 |
| DaemonFC | could you imagine all other Windows drivers loaded into Linux as well? | May 29 19:25 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 29 19:25 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | mwahahaha | May 29 19:25 |
| DaemonFC | the funny thing would be that he can't really stop them | May 29 19:25 |
| DaemonFC | cause it's the user that installs it | May 29 19:25 |
| DaemonFC | the kernel developers will probably try to sabotage the kernel | May 29 19:26 |
| DaemonFC | to which the unified kernel guys will either distribute their own fork of the kernel | May 29 19:26 |
| nicktastic | They've probably already forked | May 29 19:26 |
| DaemonFC | or patch their Windows implementatio | May 29 19:26 |
| nicktastic | I don't see how they could do this with a vanilla kernel | May 29 19:26 |
| DaemonFC | they already sabotaged the kernel to keep Reiser4 from functioning right | May 29 19:26 |
| DaemonFC | so we know they're willing to | May 29 19:26 |
| nicktastic | I think the Linux people have talked about sabotaging a number of times | May 29 19:27 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: however, won't M$ have problems if the Chinese company behind designing "Linux Unified Kernel" OSs starts exporting to other countries and gains contracts since they could sell it for much cheaper | May 29 19:27 |
| nicktastic | They realized that would be a bad decision, iirc | May 29 19:27 |
| DaemonFC | they were subtle and messed up things that only Reiser4 was really sensitive to | May 29 19:27 |
| DaemonFC | it was too precise to be a coincidence | May 29 19:27 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: imagine how dirty Chinese companies would play selling exclusive contracts for this OS to Southeast Asian nations | May 29 19:27 |
| nicktastic | DaemonFC: If true, that's bad news. | May 29 19:27 |
| nicktastic | Yeah Hans is a douche, but a douche for a douche is no way to live | May 29 19:28 |
| DaemonFC | this would tank Microsoft, Novell, and all other "interop deals" | May 29 19:28 |
| DaemonFC | so I would hope that Torvalds could look the other way | May 29 19:28 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 29 19:28 |
| nicktastic | There's nothing Torvalds can do | May 29 19:28 |
| nicktastic | Unless they break the law | May 29 19:28 |
| nicktastic | I.e. violate his licensing terms | May 29 19:28 |
| DaemonFC | well, as long as they're linking GPL code for their Windows implementation | May 29 19:29 |
| DaemonFC | he can't do anything | May 29 19:29 |
| DaemonFC | right? | May 29 19:29 |
| nicktastic | Right | May 29 19:29 |
| schestowitz | "Linux Kernel, Meet Windows Kernel. Behave." http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/05/linux_kernel_me.html;jsessionid=1NLJ1HRHHAWGKQSNDLPCKH0CJUNN2JVN | May 29 19:29 |
| nicktastic | Any mechanisms he puts in the kernel can be removed | May 29 19:29 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 29 19:29 |
| DaemonFC | but why would he want to? | May 29 19:29 |
| DaemonFC | this is the best chance to poach Windows hold outs | May 29 19:29 |
| DaemonFC | if these other guys are doing illegal things, Torvalds can't be held liable | May 29 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | so why would he try and stop them? | May 29 19:30 |
| nicktastic | Beats me | May 29 19:30 |
| nicktastic | Linus is weird | May 29 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | if there's a person I want to beat up and can't, and someone else can, why would I get in their way? | May 29 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | especially if I have plausible deniability | May 29 19:31 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 29 19:31 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, is the Loongson processor a Chinese pirate copycat | May 29 19:32 |
| DaemonFC | or can you buy that in the US legally? | May 29 19:32 |
| DaemonFC | having a MIPS CPU that can also run x86 could be kind of neat | May 29 19:33 |
| DaemonFC | looks like they not only want a Linux that can run Windows apps, but they want to do it all on a MIPS CPU | May 29 19:33 |
| DaemonFC | that's fairly ambitious | May 29 19:33 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: well its all open and because of that the | May 29 19:34 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | Chinese government can issue requirements more easily to include tools for easedropping | May 29 19:34 |
| DaemonFC | I do have an SGI Altix box | May 29 19:34 |
| DaemonFC | it's one of the more interesting systems I have | May 29 19:34 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | and it makes it easier to regulate amongst different companies | May 29 19:34 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | so technically all companies are utilizing an OS that is under government controll | May 29 19:35 |
| DaemonFC | Doom II was ported to IRIX and so was Quake III Arena | May 29 19:35 |
| schestowitz | More Linux sub-notebooks http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,10012842o-2000331761b,00.htm | May 29 19:35 |
| DaemonFC | lol | May 29 19:35 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRIX | May 29 19:35 |
| DaemonFC | I had hoped that SGI would open source all of IRIX | May 29 19:36 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: IRIX is no longer supported by SGI | May 29 19:36 |
| DaemonFC | but that never happened | May 29 19:36 |
| nicktastic | I think I recall playing Quake 1 on an O2 | May 29 19:36 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, I got my IRIX 6.5.30 update over a torrent | May 29 19:36 |
| DaemonFC | cause I couldn't upgrade my 6.0 through SGI | May 29 19:36 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: was IRIX a good OS in your opinion, I read other people didn't like it so much | May 29 19:36 |
| nicktastic | Yeah Irix was gross :P | May 29 19:37 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | nicktastic: I would think Mac OSX has most of the pros which IRIX had and even less of the cons | May 29 19:37 |
| schestowitz | Dell's earnings are down 63% | May 29 19:38 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | nicktastic: with its Aqua & Cocoa API | May 29 19:38 |
| nicktastic | I never thought Irix was very pretty...wasn't the wm motif? | May 29 19:38 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: Dell is really getting clobbered by HP now | May 29 19:39 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: and I am sure Lenovo is eating up their notebook marketshare | May 29 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | meh, the internals were better than Linux in some ways | May 29 19:39 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | as well as Asus | May 29 19:39 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | and Abit | May 29 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | but the user interface is pretty awful | May 29 19:39 |
| nicktastic | Nice resolution on that netbook | May 29 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | you can mount XFS partitions in Linux or IRIX | May 29 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | so it makes sense to use that if you dual boot | May 29 19:40 |
| schestowitz | SiCortex has hired intellectual property managers to sell its assets. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/28/sicortex_assets/ | May 29 19:40 |
| schestowitz | Just not the MS patent trolls... | May 29 19:40 |
| schestowitz | Like Transmeta | May 29 19:40 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: Lenovo collapsed too | May 29 19:41 |
| schestowitz | HP fires massively | May 29 19:41 |
| schestowitz | ASUS profits are down 94%!!!!! | May 29 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Nice going with Microsoft, ASUS | May 29 19:41 |
| DaemonFC | IRIX was better than Linux in disk operation performance, it was written to sling around massive files | May 29 19:41 |
| schestowitz | They messed up by choosing to be a paid-for shil for Windows | May 29 19:41 |
| DaemonFC | but Linux is getting a lot better about that | May 29 19:41 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: but Dell has a much larger overhead considering their loses | May 29 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft pays ASUS to diss Linux now | May 29 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Also kickbacks to sell Windows | May 29 19:41 |
| DaemonFC | oh fuck ASUS, just another Chinese crap manufacturer | May 29 19:42 |
| nicktastic | And didn't support Linux on the Eee 1000HE | May 29 19:42 |
| DaemonFC | of course they all use Microsoft for everything | May 29 19:42 |
| DaemonFC | I had to lo into some kind of Microsoft IIS web server where everything was written in Chinese | May 29 19:43 |
| DaemonFC | to get that BIOS file | May 29 19:43 |
| DaemonFC | lol | May 29 19:43 |
| DaemonFC | *log | May 29 19:43 |
| schestowitz | Asus and Microsoft join forces against Linux < http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2243158/asus-microsoft-join-forces > Microsoft bribes ASUS again. | May 29 19:43 |
| schestowitz | It's not Chinese, DaemonFC | May 29 19:44 |
| DaemonFC | Foxconn makes their stuff probably | May 29 19:44 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: its too bad SiCortex is going out, why are law and liquidation firms in the US and Europe such large corporate shills, they will help the US lose its innovational edge and thus their future earnings | May 29 19:44 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: but when did they ever care about the future | May 29 19:44 |
| DaemonFC | I'd be surprised if ASUS does anything but slap their label on it | May 29 19:44 |
| DaemonFC | Foxconn makes everything, they make XBOX 360s, Wiis, PS3s, Zunes, iPods, and most PC motherboards, GPUs, and RAM | May 29 19:45 |
| DaemonFC | and growing numbers of hard drives and SSDs | May 29 19:45 |
| DaemonFC | they sell very little under their own label | May 29 19:46 |
| DaemonFC | they let other companies worry about the support mostly | May 29 19:46 |
| DaemonFC | their self-labeled motherboards won't last long I bet | May 29 19:46 |
| DaemonFC | that guy I talked to from Foxconn UK said they weren't making good margins on them | May 29 19:46 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: another up and coming labeless Chinese fab firm is Flextronics | May 29 19:47 |
| DaemonFC | Carl Brunning told me that the motherboard I bought for $100 cost them $80 just to make and ship to the reseller | May 29 19:47 |
| DaemonFC | mostly cause of royalties to Intel over the chipsets used | May 29 19:47 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: and to think Intel is trying to block Nvidia's motherboards | May 29 19:48 |
| DaemonFC | so yeah, I can kind of see why the EU kicked Intel in the nuts | May 29 19:48 |
| DaemonFC | they are being unfair to competitors | May 29 19:48 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: more like a ball tap imo | May 29 19:48 |
| DaemonFC | wasn't that a $1.54 billion fine (in USD)? | May 29 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | that's not pocket change you know | May 29 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | and I'm suret here were other sanctions | May 29 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | *sure | May 29 19:49 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: still, for a company like Intel it can recover it, if there is no penalties and edicts issued there is really no punishment | May 29 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | I'd like to see them fine Microsoft similarly and force them to unbundle things like Internet Explorer | May 29 19:50 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: I did not hear about any sanctions, just a fine and some verbal scolding | May 29 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | Internet Explorer is the primary infection vector on Windows | May 29 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | if you remove IE, over 60% of Windows security patches no longer apply | May 29 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | like if you remove it and its core with nLite | May 29 19:51 |
| DaemonFC | simply hiding some icons is not enough, they should push to force Microsoft to let the customer fully remove it | May 29 19:51 |
| DaemonFC | the problem is that between IE and Windows Media Player, you really have 4 components | May 29 19:52 |
| DaemonFC | those two are just visible front ends | May 29 19:52 |
| DaemonFC | the backends will break a lot of 3rd party apps if removed | May 29 19:52 |
| DaemonFC | the IE rendering engine and the DirectShow subsystem are used in other programs | May 29 19:53 |
| DaemonFC | the basic reasoning behind this is "Why rewrite something that's already in every copy of Windows?" | May 29 19:53 |
| DaemonFC | unfortunately a lot of good programs embed those components | May 29 19:54 |
| DaemonFC | that was the whole reasning behind Microsoft making them into embedded components | May 29 19:54 |
| DaemonFC | like, it's impossible to use your TV tuner without a media center that requires DirectShow | May 29 19:55 |
| DaemonFC | most programs that can burn audio CDs have to use DirectShow filters | May 29 19:55 |
| DaemonFC | I have XP and Vista Edition N, the EU governmentware that MS was forced to make with no Windows Media Player | May 29 19:56 |
| DaemonFC | DirectShow is still there, they just removed the WMP front end | May 29 19:56 |
| DaemonFC | which can be easily installed | May 29 19:56 |
| DaemonFC | in fact, the first time you try to play an MP3, Windows will suggest that you let it get Windows Media Player | May 29 19:57 |
| DaemonFC | but other players are on the recommended programs list | May 29 19:57 |
| DaemonFC | Winamp is among them, and VLC | May 29 19:57 |
| nicktastic | In theory these are APIs that anyone can implent with existing FOSS multimedia frameworks | May 29 19:58 |
| DaemonFC | well yes, but the problem is that only DirectShow and Trident are guaranteed to be there | May 29 19:58 |
| nicktastic | So remove wmp and drop in the wrapper over vlc or gstreamer or something | May 29 19:58 |
| DaemonFC | so that's what everyone uses | May 29 19:58 |
| DaemonFC | rather than bundle their own | May 29 19:58 |
| nicktastic | They wouldn't need to bundle | May 29 19:59 |
| nicktastic | DirectShow is just an API | May 29 19:59 |
| nicktastic | Implement that API with gstreamer or something | May 29 19:59 |
| DaemonFC | IE 8's UA string actually includes the Trident version now | May 29 19:59 |
| DaemonFC | wonder what that's all about | May 29 19:59 |
| DaemonFC | Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; Trident/4.0; SLCC1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; Media Center PC 5.0; .NET CLR 3.0.30729) | May 29 20:00 |
| DaemonFC | from my system | May 29 20:00 |
| DaemonFC | long enough? lol | May 29 20:00 |
| schestowitz | Newspapers carry on falling and they don't know what to do about it. http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/05/29/newspaper-execs-discuss-strategies-for-future | May 29 20:00 |
| nicktastic | Adapt | May 29 20:02 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: I just hope Reuters and AP don't take on all of their journeling duties | May 29 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | oh, interesting note about Windows Server 2008 | May 29 20:02 |
| schestowitz | Eek. No Plymouth Coming To Ubuntu 9.10 < http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzI5NQ > | May 29 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | it has UAC turned off by default | May 29 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 29 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | but it still has the IE hardening pack | May 29 20:03 |
| schestowitz | nicktastic: apart you say, but how? | May 29 20:03 |
| schestowitz | Knowledge is free | May 29 20:03 |
| schestowitz | BN too is just able to pay for hosting | May 29 20:03 |
| schestowitz | If you charge for news, people go elsewhere | May 29 20:03 |
| schestowitz | It becomes a commodity, like s/w | May 29 20:03 |
| schestowitz | So think along selling of hwardware | May 29 20:03 |
| schestowitz | Or services | May 29 20:03 |
| DaemonFC | Moronix | May 29 20:03 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu pushers | May 29 20:03 |
| *DaemonFC pukes | May 29 20:03 | |
| schestowitz | Naa.. | May 29 20:03 |
| schestowitz | He likes Fedora | May 29 20:04 |
| nicktastic | Beats me, not my industry | May 29 20:04 |
| schestowitz | Been Fedora guy for ages | May 29 20:04 |
| schestowitz | nicktastic: back to gardening and stuff :-) | May 29 20:04 |
| DaemonFC | so why do they prop up Ubuntu as an example for everything? | May 29 20:04 |
| nicktastic | hehe | May 29 20:04 |
| schestowitz | Maybe the world will be able to share more what CAN be shared | May 29 20:04 |
| schestowitz | Including the knowledge on semi-conductors | May 29 20:04 |
| schestowitz | Lots of this is in the commons (Wikipedia) | May 29 20:04 |
| schestowitz | People 'donate' their 'IP' | May 29 20:05 |
| DaemonFC | Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; Trident/4.0; SLCC1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; Media Center PC 5.0; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; .NET CLR 3.5.30729) | May 29 20:05 |
| DaemonFC | there we go | May 29 20:05 |
| DaemonFC | lol | May 29 20:05 |
| nicktastic | Newspapers seem deprecated at this point | May 29 20:05 |
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| DaemonFC | newspapers are a relic | May 29 20:05 |
| DaemonFC | Rupert Murdoch thinks News Corp is going to put that genie back in the bottle and start charging for online newspapers | May 29 20:06 |
| DaemonFC | Rupert Murdoch is a relic | May 29 20:06 |
| nicktastic | hehehe | May 29 20:06 |
| DaemonFC | and why would they start charging for access to govt propaganda? | May 29 20:06 |
| nicktastic | Welcome back to reality, Mr. Murdoch. | May 29 20:06 |
| schestowitz | X Input 2.0 Hitting Master In Seven Days < http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzI5MQ > | May 29 20:06 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: newspaper still do most of the independent reporting and fact checking though | May 29 20:06 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: +1 | May 29 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Re Murdoch | May 29 20:07 |
| schestowitz | and papers | May 29 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Relics -- both | May 29 20:07 |
| nicktastic | Nice | May 29 20:07 |
| schestowitz | He amuses me | May 29 20:07 |
| schestowitz | He thinks he can change the Net | May 29 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Can't recall what he said exactly | May 29 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Something about changing the Internet | May 29 20:07 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: newspaper as a medium maybe relics, but the journalists and services that work to fact check on their behalf are still relied upon by everyone from bloggers to even TV news | May 29 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Him and his dino friends think they can Talibanise the Web | May 29 20:07 |
| *nicktastic chuckles. | May 29 20:07 | |
| schestowitz | To save their paper (wood) empire | May 29 20:08 |
| DaemonFC | Well, Fox Nes is not a popular website | May 29 20:08 |
| DaemonFC | they throw money into it like coal for a fire | May 29 20:08 |
| DaemonFC | but it's not getting a proportionate amount of hits | May 29 20:08 |
| nicktastic | Carl_Rover2k12: Definitely. If newspapers go away, we will still have journalists. Its just a medium. I assume these people will be absorbed into organizations using more popular media. | May 29 20:08 |
| DaemonFC | for all they pay for it | May 29 20:08 |
| schestowitz | Fox gets exposure in YouTube | May 29 20:09 |
| schestowitz | Like clips of it | May 29 20:09 |
| schestowitz | In AmazingAtheists' feed | May 29 20:09 |
| schestowitz | Then he says the truth about it | May 29 20:09 |
| nicktastic | lol | May 29 20:09 |
| schestowitz | Beck and ORLY for example | May 29 20:09 |
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| schestowitz | It's a lot more amusing when you see the REAL two side of the story | May 29 20:09 |
| schestowitz | Not a manufactured debate | May 29 20:09 |
| nicktastic | You know I actually like reading newspapers more than reading news on the web | May 29 20:09 |
| nicktastic | Everything's right there in front of you | May 29 20:09 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | nicktastic: but the problem is those other organizations are more profit driven and depend on either selling the latest greatest content that maybe inaccurate such as Reuters/AP, or rely more on ratings that actually reporting the news, TV. Or just not profitable enough, blogging | May 29 20:09 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.google.com/trends?q=Fox+News%2C+MSNBC%2C+CNN&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0 | May 29 20:09 |
| schestowitz | Between the guy who wants to burn Iraqis and one who wants them waterbaorded | May 29 20:10 |
| DaemonFC | CNN is almost 4 times more popular | May 29 20:10 |
| DaemonFC | than Fox News | May 29 20:10 |
| schestowitz | CNN is bad | May 29 20:10 |
| schestowitz | I canned their feed 2 months ago | May 29 20:10 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | nicktastic: maybe journalists should team up and create their own reporting service where they can distribute fact checked accurate and independent news | May 29 20:11 |
| schestowitz | Too conformist | May 29 20:11 |
| schestowitz | In the bad sense | May 29 20:11 |
| nicktastic | Carl_Rover2k12: Those sound like important problems...but that's not going to make people start reading newspapers. | May 29 20:11 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | nicktastic: also to give AP and Reuters the middle finger | May 29 20:11 |
| DaemonFC | http://trends.google.com/websites?q=foxnews.com%2C+cnn.com%2C+msnbc.com&geo=all&date=all&sort=0 | May 29 20:11 |
| nicktastic | hehe | May 29 20:11 |
| schestowitz | Conserving monopolies and centres of power that fund it | May 29 20:11 |
| DaemonFC | hits on their website confirm this | May 29 20:11 |
| nicktastic | CNN is terrible | May 29 20:11 |
| nicktastic | Every watched it? | May 29 20:11 |
| nicktastic | It makes me _angry_ | May 29 20:11 |
| nicktastic | *ever | May 29 20:11 |
| schestowitz | China too | May 29 20:11 |
| schestowitz | They also 'hammered' on it | May 29 20:11 |
| nicktastic | New drinking game: take a shot every time a CNN talking head insults your intelligence. | May 29 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Not like DaemonFC's 'hits' | May 29 20:12 |
| DaemonFC | http://trends.google.com/websites?q=ubuntu.com%2C+fedoraproject.org%2C+mandriva.com&geo=all&date=all&sort=0 | May 29 20:12 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu continues to be popular for no reason | May 29 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Humanity for others | May 29 20:12 |
| DaemonFC | http://trends.google.com/websites?q=ubuntu.com%2C+fedoraproject.org%2C+mandriva.com%2C+opensuse.org&geo=all&date=all&sort=0 | May 29 20:12 |
| schestowitz | They must be looking for instructions on how to get to the restaurant | May 29 20:12 |
| DaemonFC | OpenSuse is actually losing popularity | May 29 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Yes, of course | May 29 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Look at this week's new | May 29 20:12 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | nicktastic: also not all newspapers will go out of business, ones that only cover reporting in a county or town/city will still be popular. Since many people prefer to look at whats going on around them during the start of the day without turning on anything besides their toasters and coffee makers | May 29 20:13 |
| schestowitz | Opensuse gradually gets fried | May 29 20:13 |
| schestowitz | Even opensuse people note the abandonment | May 29 20:13 |
| schestowitz | Of the community part anyway | May 29 20:13 |
| schestowitz | Not Novell staff | May 29 20:13 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.google.com/trends?q=ubuntu%2C+fedora%2C+mandriva%2C+opensuse | May 29 20:13 |
| schestowitz | It's manned by employees | May 29 20:13 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | nicktastic: I can imagine newspapers will downsize allot and most of the international reporting will move onto newsgroups or webpages | May 29 20:13 |
| DaemonFC | search term popularity | May 29 20:13 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: they can't sell subs | May 29 20:13 |
| schestowitz | They'll need to use ads | May 29 20:13 |
| DaemonFC | OpenSuse has failed to grow since the MS deal | May 29 20:14 |
| DaemonFC | by any gauge | May 29 20:14 |
| schestowitz | Paper distribution will stop at some stage | May 29 20:14 |
| schestowitz | And people will be reluctant to pay online | May 29 20:14 |
| DaemonFC | but Ubuntu is growing at the expense of every other distribution | May 29 20:14 |
| schestowitz | People like variety (plurality) of sources | May 29 20:14 |
| schestowitz | One paper can'ty cover everyrhtinmg | May 29 20:14 |
| schestowitz | Like all Linux news | May 29 20:14 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: they can't sell enough subs to large businesses who rather do their own advertising in this day and age. But for local community your average corner store would probably rather save and shell out alittle for a page in a newspaper then for the production costs and distribution fees of a commercial | May 29 20:15 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu is the most undeserved of them all to be popular | May 29 20:15 |
| DaemonFC | they're basically just standing on the shoulders of the people that do all the work | May 29 20:15 |
| DaemonFC | and taking all the credit | May 29 20:15 |
| DaemonFC | they don't even understand the cause of bugs in their own operating system | May 29 20:16 |
| schestowitz | Ballnux: http://news.opensuse.org/2009/05/28/opensuse-112-milestone-2-released/ | May 29 20:16 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: I can imagine modern newspaper may include some local articles and many adverts for sales concerning local stores and then post URLs for the rest of their content | May 29 20:16 |
| DaemonFC | and have to look at what comes through the kernel.org mailing lists | May 29 20:16 |
| DaemonFC | and try patching their kernel with that | May 29 20:16 |
| nicktastic | Carl_Rover2k12: That'll change too I think, just slowly | May 29 20:16 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu is a cargo cult | May 29 20:16 |
| nicktastic | By the time the Internet generation turns 50, maybe | May 29 20:16 |
| nicktastic | DaemonFC: So is anti-Ubuntism :P | May 29 20:17 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu lies almost totally on Red Hat, Novell, and the other distributions | May 29 20:17 |
| DaemonFC | without them there couldn't be an Ubuntu | May 29 20:17 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | nicktastic: they may also cut down on subscription and may bundle them in stores with magazines | May 29 20:17 |
| DaemonFC | *relies | May 29 20:17 |
| schestowitz | Fedora 11 Plagued With Another Delay < http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Phoronix/~3/PN593ryOh9w/vr.php > | May 29 20:17 |
| nicktastic | s/Red Hat, Novell, and the other distributions/Debian/ | May 29 20:17 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: magazines will die too | May 29 20:17 |
| schestowitz | The print press loses efficiency | May 29 20:17 |
| schestowitz | It gets expensive to print stuff | May 29 20:18 |
| schestowitz | Can't recall the article | May 29 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | Debian isn't a huge upstream contributor, but they do at least 4-5 times as much as Ubuntu | May 29 20:18 |
| schestowitz | But twitter brought this up | May 29 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | in any given time period | May 29 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | so does Mandriva | May 29 20:18 |
| schestowitz | They go out of business and press equipment become more scarce and thus expensive | May 29 20:18 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: it will still be awhile before it impacts magazines though | May 29 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | with no money and a small staff | May 29 20:18 |
| nicktastic | Yeah, I'm not sure about that. | May 29 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | Mandriva still is more useful to Linux than Ubuntu | May 29 20:18 |
| schestowitz | Try buying a cassette tape player these days.... | May 29 20:18 |
| schestowitz | The notion of paging for news will die too | May 29 20:18 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: I can buy a mini-cassette recording at my local grocery store | May 29 20:19 |
| schestowitz | I cam't understand why my thesis, for example, is sliced by pages | May 29 20:19 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | does that count? | May 29 20:19 |
| schestowitz | OrPhoronic | May 29 20:19 |
| schestowitz | It's artificial limitation | May 29 20:19 |
| schestowitz | Mimicking the problems with sheets of paper | May 29 20:19 |
| DaemonFC | it's a good idea to go with Fedora because you have the largest single contributor (Red Hat) to Linux backing your system | May 29 20:19 |
| DaemonFC | you get all the coolest stuff before anyone else does | May 29 20:19 |
| schestowitz | So some sites mimic magazines with judtification of text and PDFs | May 29 20:19 |
| schestowitz | Not necessary | May 29 20:19 |
| schestowitz | Just cumbersaome | May 29 20:19 |
| nicktastic | Because if it is to be printed, it needs to be formatted with page breaks in mind? | May 29 20:19 |
| schestowitz | No screenreader support | May 29 20:19 |
| schestowitz | Not good one anyway | May 29 20:19 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: good luck finding an audio recorder that can record in decent fidelity for up to an hour and a half for $10.99 | May 29 20:19 |
| DaemonFC | Mandriva also works closely with the Fedora guys if you need a little more stability and still want newish features | May 29 20:20 |
| schestowitz | And also you lose the ability to conveniently use plugins, copy text, etc. | May 29 20:20 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu gets like sloppy thirds most of the time | May 29 20:20 |
| DaemonFC | and breaks them | May 29 20:20 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: nobody has made a digital recorder that can offer that for the right price, maybe because they don't feel its profitable to offer such a low featured thus low margined paper | May 29 20:20 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: what what price can you buy a gramophone? | May 29 20:20 |
| DaemonFC | I still have an original Walkman | May 29 20:21 |
| DaemonFC | from the 80s | May 29 20:21 |
| DaemonFC | lol | May 29 20:21 |
| DaemonFC | still works | May 29 20:21 |
| schestowitz | nicktastic: it doesn't need to be printed. That's the point | May 29 20:21 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: just as even most local news websites still won't cover community activities as well as local newspapers, because the margins don't justify the end means for profitting | May 29 20:21 |
| schestowitz | This stuff is about text and data | May 29 20:21 |
| schestowitz | in fact...! | May 29 20:21 |
| schestowitz | People these days can use video too | May 29 20:21 |
| DaemonFC | the newspaper here has always been free | May 29 20:21 |
| schestowitz | Multimedia is no distry work | May 29 20:21 |
| schestowitz | Unless one sticks to old tradition | May 29 20:21 |
| DaemonFC | entirely advertising supported | May 29 20:21 |
| schestowitz | Like linking with biblio | May 29 20:21 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: Gramophones I can imagine are pretty expensive, they are antiques | May 29 20:21 |
| schestowitz | Instead o hyperlinks | May 29 20:21 |
| schestowitz | So paging to end is artificial imposed limitation | May 29 20:22 |
| nicktastic | schestowitz: Need, no, but many people prefer paper | May 29 20:22 |
| schestowitz | All in vaomn | May 29 20:22 |
| schestowitz | *vain | May 29 20:22 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: and during their time they were the feature rich audio player of their time | May 29 20:22 |
| nicktastic | I prefer paper books, for example, I find them less cumbersome than using a computer or ebook reader | May 29 20:22 |
| DaemonFC | I dunno about MP3, player support is universal and the patents expire soonish | May 29 20:22 |
| schestowitz | nicktastic: some do | May 29 20:22 |
| DaemonFC | and have never been greatly enforced anyway | May 29 20:22 |
| schestowitz | Uisually rthe older generation | May 29 20:22 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | nicktastic: I think e-Book readers are sooo redundant | May 29 20:22 |
| nicktastic | But "need", no, there's no need | May 29 20:22 |
| schestowitz | Based on my limited experience anyway | May 29 20:22 |
| nicktastic | Carl_Rover2k12: yeah | May 29 20:22 |
| schestowitz | Some may never depart from paper | May 29 20:23 |
| nicktastic | Carl_Rover2k12: I think there's a lot of redundancy in the gadget market | May 29 20:23 |
| schestowitz | But tomorrow's generation grows more digitally | May 29 20:23 |
| schestowitz | SMS, Web sites, etc. | May 29 20:23 |
| schestowitz | eBooks are redundant | May 29 20:23 |
| schestowitz | It's called e BOOKS | May 29 20:23 |
| schestowitz | That's the problem | May 29 20:23 |
| DaemonFC | AAC and Vorbis are technically superior, but MP3 will be the defacto standard for a long long time | May 29 20:23 |
| schestowitz | BOOKS | May 29 20:23 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 29 20:23 |
| nicktastic | Carl_Rover2k12: Everything should be a regular computer, imo. It can do everything that smart phones, ebook readers, etc. do, | May 29 20:23 |
| schestowitz | If you strart from this hypothesis | May 29 20:23 |
| schestowitz | And try to mimic something bad | May 29 20:23 |
| schestowitz | Like Linus sais | May 29 20:23 |
| schestowitz | Better CVS than CVS is no good | May 29 20:24 |
| schestowitz | SO he made Git rather than use SVN | May 29 20:24 |
| schestowitz | BOOKS are not a natural form | May 29 20:24 |
| schestowitz | Not ideal | May 29 20:24 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | nicktastic: indeed because of the capabilities of electronics justifies putting more features into it without reflecting the price if the software is right | May 29 20:24 |
| nicktastic | People would have computers of various sizes to best fit the task, and pluggable components to provide functionality, like cell phone or gps | May 29 20:24 |
| schestowitz | Just best given some circumstance | May 29 20:24 |
| DaemonFC | VLC is using Git now | May 29 20:24 |
| DaemonFC | development is moving faster it seems | May 29 20:24 |
| DaemonFC | than when they used CVS | May 29 20:24 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | nicktastic: I am suprised no notebooks are offering a black and white "e-reader" mode | May 29 20:24 |
| schestowitz | I prefer video myself. Listening and watching while doing other things. For literature something with hyperinks like Wikipedia is better | May 29 20:24 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | nicktastic: the XO-OLPC was the only one | May 29 20:25 |
| schestowitz | You can put Wikipedia on PDAs with HTML readers | May 29 20:25 |
| schestowitz | Simple HTML rendering | May 29 20:25 |
| schestowitz | Wikipedia goes mobile now | May 29 20:25 |
| schestowitz | MediaWiki has something planned for mobile layout (in the news) | May 29 20:25 |
| nicktastic | schestowitz: Much of that seems like a matter of opinion to me | May 29 20:25 |
| DaemonFC | I've been using Vorbis q8 and have been having great success | May 29 20:26 |
| nicktastic | But in any case, I'm sure paper will disappear before much longer | May 29 20:26 |
| DaemonFC | sounds about like the FLAC to me anyway | May 29 20:26 |
| nicktastic | Again when the Internet generation gets to ~50 years old :P | May 29 20:26 |
| DaemonFC | if there's a difference, I'm not noticing it | May 29 20:26 |
| nicktastic | DaemonFC: Listen to a symphony on a nice system/nice headphones. The violins will sound like they're underwater. | May 29 20:27 |
| DaemonFC | no, sounds very good at q8 | May 29 20:27 |
| DaemonFC | q8 averages 256k, still sounds noticibly better than a 320k MP3 | May 29 20:27 |
| DaemonFC | even with Lame 3.98 (latest version) | May 29 20:27 |
| nicktastic | True, but there are still noticable artifacts. | May 29 20:27 |
| nicktastic | Even with aotuv vorbis | May 29 20:27 |
| nicktastic | And 320kbit approaches the size of flac | May 29 20:27 |
| DaemonFC | I'm using Vorbis 1.2 | May 29 20:27 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 29 20:28 |
| DaemonFC | 320k is nowhere near FLAC | May 29 20:28 |
| DaemonFC | FLAC decompresses as it plays anyway | May 29 20:28 |
| DaemonFC | so it's identical quality to a CD | May 29 20:28 |
| nicktastic | Uh...yeah it is. 256kbit is about half the size of flac, iirc | May 29 20:28 |
| DaemonFC | but FLAC bitrate as compressed ends up around 800-900k | May 29 20:28 |
| DaemonFC | but decompresses on the fly | May 29 20:28 |
| DaemonFC | to be identical to the CD | May 29 20:29 |
| DaemonFC | it's not lossy | May 29 20:29 |
| nicktastic | yeah ok | May 29 20:29 |
| DaemonFC | it's essentially just a very optimized file compression for audio | May 29 20:29 |
| nicktastic | Yeah I know what it is | May 29 20:29 |
| DaemonFC | it doesn't discard any of the stream | May 29 20:29 |
| nicktastic | We were talking about file sizes ;) | May 29 20:29 |
| DaemonFC | if all you're worried about is file size in lossless formats, you could use WMA Lossless, Apple Lossless, or Monkeys Audio | May 29 20:30 |
| DaemonFC | but you sacrifice interoperability and a ton of features | May 29 20:30 |
| nicktastic | flac is just fine for me | May 29 20:31 |
| DaemonFC | and in many cases you need more CPU resources to play those | May 29 20:31 |
| nicktastic | No artifacts, resonable size | May 29 20:31 |
| DaemonFC | Vorbis is much better than MP3 with regards to perceived quality, noticeable artifacts for MP3 start at around 356k and get worse the lower you go | May 29 20:32 |
| DaemonFC | Vorbis is good down to q5 | May 29 20:32 |
| nicktastic | Yeah vorbis blows mp3 away | May 29 20:32 |
| nicktastic | Its laughable actually | May 29 20:32 |
| DaemonFC | which averages like 160k I think | May 29 20:32 |
| DaemonFC | errr | May 29 20:32 |
| DaemonFC | 256k for MP3 that is | May 29 20:32 |
| nicktastic | In fact aotuv vorbis has been the winner in several tests I've read about | May 29 20:32 |
| nicktastic | pitting all the popular lossy codecs against one another | May 29 20:33 |
| DaemonFC | The worst by far that I've ever tried was WMA | May 29 20:33 |
| DaemonFC | I tried it out just to say I gave it a fair shake | May 29 20:33 |
| DaemonFC | and it's pretty horrible | May 29 20:33 |
| DaemonFC | no matter what bitrate I used, I could spot the WMA | May 29 20:33 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft was trying to say 64k WMA was CD quality | May 29 20:33 |
| DaemonFC | my ass | May 29 20:33 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 29 20:33 |
| nicktastic | hahahahaha | May 29 20:34 |
| nicktastic | "We said it, it must be true!" | May 29 20:34 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft doesn't even use WMA in Microsoft Game Studios | May 29 20:34 |
| DaemonFC | they use Vorbis | May 29 20:34 |
| nicktastic | Behold the power of marketing | May 29 20:34 |
| nicktastic | Really | May 29 20:34 |
| nicktastic | That's hilarious. | May 29 20:34 |
| DaemonFC | I think that really just says it all | May 29 20:34 |
| schestowitz | Oregon Department of Forestry (ODF) http://www.wallowa.com/Main.asp?SectionID=9&ArticleID=18925 | May 29 20:35 |
| DaemonFC | in Fable and Halo, you can see that they've compiled a Vorbis playack engine | May 29 20:35 |
| DaemonFC | and all the audio is Vorbis streams q5 | May 29 20:35 |
| DaemonFC | they don't even have confidence in their own format | May 29 20:35 |
| DaemonFC | why should I? | May 29 20:35 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 29 20:35 |
| DaemonFC | they had some of the files for earlier builds of Halo as WAV files | May 29 20:36 |
| DaemonFC | so I did an experiement and tried to use WMA on them | May 29 20:36 |
| DaemonFC | and there really was no comparison | May 29 20:36 |
| nicktastic | Well, a priori, its a proprietary codec, so not an option | May 29 20:36 |
| DaemonFC | things like bullet ricochet stuck out like a sore thumb | May 29 20:37 |
| DaemonFC | in WMA | May 29 20:37 |
| nicktastic | vorbis is particularly good at keeping quality at low bitrates | May 29 20:37 |
| DaemonFC | I have some WMAs from the URGE stor because they were free | May 29 20:38 |
| DaemonFC | but I don't encode to it | May 29 20:38 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft was cranking the bitrate on those things to compensate for WMA artifacts | May 29 20:38 |
| DaemonFC | Apple was using 128k AAC at the time and Microsoft had to use 192k WMA to get nearly the same quality | May 29 20:38 |
| DaemonFC | so you got bigger files that sound worse | May 29 20:39 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 29 20:39 |
| nicktastic | hehehe | May 29 20:39 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, WMA 9 sounds OK if you crank the bitrate and then you effectively cut your storage space on the portable in half | May 29 20:39 |
| DaemonFC | I wonder why nobody has said anything about that | May 29 20:40 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 29 20:40 |
| nicktastic | That's much too technical for most people | May 29 20:40 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: hence why people who would be interested in the Zune HD should get the Cowon S9 instead | May 29 20:41 |
| nicktastic | People believe what marketing departments tell them ;) | May 29 20:41 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft tries to avoid WMA, and when they can't avoid it, they try to hide its design flaws by upping the bitrate | May 29 20:41 |
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| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: Cowon S9 has the same OLED screen as the Zune HD as well as potential for multitouch support and supports a whole lot more codecs as well as vorbis | May 29 20:41 |
| DaemonFC | WMA exists only because you can DRM it and they don't have to pay royalties for MP3 or AAC | May 29 20:41 |
| DaemonFC | not because it's superior to anything | May 29 20:41 |
| schestowitz | wb, Senor _Hicham_ | May 29 20:42 |
| _Hicham_ | How r u doing Don Schestowitz? | May 29 20:42 |
| schestowitz | "Google kicked off its I/O developer conference here with a spirited endorsement of new Web tools and adoption of new standards, particularly HTML 5, as driving a new generation of more innovative applications." http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3822236/Google+Declares+The+Web+Has+Won.htm | May 29 20:42 |
| DaemonFC | I should do my own taste test, lol | May 29 20:42 |
| *schestowitz very excited about Google proliferating <video>\ | May 29 20:42 | |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: taste test? | May 29 20:42 |
| DaemonFC | with the files Microsoft was using to pimp WMA | May 29 20:42 |
| nicktastic | bbl | May 29 20:42 |
| nicktastic | schestowitz: Yeah! That's awesome | May 29 20:43 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: you can taste codecs? | May 29 20:43 |
| *nicktastic & | May 29 20:43 | |
| DaemonFC | compress them all with the most up to date encoders | May 29 20:43 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: I wonder how WMA tastes | May 29 20:43 |
| schestowitz | F* Flash and Silver Lie | May 29 20:43 |
| schestowitz | Adobe might fight back | May 29 20:43 |
| DaemonFC | WMA is particularly bad on electric guitars | May 29 20:43 |
| _Hicham_ | Adobe is cooperating more with Mozilla | May 29 20:43 |
| schestowitz | People install Flash since 2005 or so for their video monopoly through dependency | May 29 20:43 |
| DaemonFC | and saxophones | May 29 20:43 |
| _Hicham_ | fuck Flash | May 29 20:44 |
| schestowitz | I just need the media file | May 29 20:44 |
| schestowitz | The video, the beef | May 29 20:44 |
| schestowitz | Not the junk 'around' it | May 29 20:44 |
| _Hicham_ | there must be a way to overcome the flash format | May 29 20:44 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: indeed, flash is also one of the most CPU intensive apps around | May 29 20:45 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: Shunning sites that use it | May 29 20:45 |
| *DaemonFC has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | May 29 20:45 | |
| schestowitz | Complinign to their Webmasters | May 29 20:45 |
| _Hicham_ | Schestowitz : u use Flash too | May 29 20:45 |
| schestowitz | After a while they produce Flash-free routes | May 29 20:45 |
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| schestowitz | Novell.com is FULL of Flash | May 29 20:45 |
| schestowitz | Just comes to show what an 'open source' player they ar | May 29 20:45 |
| schestowitz | *Are | May 29 20:45 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: I can't understand though why Google just doesn't start moving the entire Youtube Library to H.264 instead of trying to make copies for the mobile website | May 29 20:46 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I use Flash for YouTube | May 29 20:46 |
| _Hicham_ | fuck Novell | May 29 20:46 |
| tessier | 'Although G1 is available for use in this release, note that production use of G1 is only permitted where a Java support contract has been purchased.' | May 29 20:46 |
| tessier | WTF? | May 29 20:46 |
| schestowitz | tessier: where from? | May 29 20:46 |
| tessier | http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/05/29/1711203/Java-Gets-New-Garbage-Collector-But-Only-If-You-Buy-Support | May 29 20:46 |
| schestowitz | Oracle... | May 29 20:47 |
| tessier | So much for being FOSS | May 29 20:47 |
| _Hicham_ | that is it | May 29 20:47 |
| _Hicham_ | bye bye Java | May 29 20:47 |
| tessier | Unfortunately, I doubt that | May 29 20:48 |
| _Hicham_ | Welcome to the world of Python | May 29 20:48 |
| schestowitz | Oracle won't let this happen | May 29 20:50 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | _Hicham_: what about Ruby? | May 29 20:50 |
| schestowitz | If there's outcry they'll keep it dominant | May 29 20:50 |
| schestowitz | Last year Oracle did something directly to counter .NET | May 29 20:50 |
| schestowitz | Now it has Java | May 29 20:50 |
| schestowitz | And it takes pride of it | May 29 20:51 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: Oracle is looking to try to cash in on the ubiquity of Java | May 29 20:51 |
| schestowitz | It won't let community support just dissolve | May 29 20:51 |
| MinceR | http://imagechan.com/images/97ea00adb720d07ab49c837ac5c758c3.jpg | May 29 20:51 |
| _Hicham_ | There are not open sourcing it anymore | May 29 20:51 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: at the cost of what? | May 29 20:51 |
| _Hicham_ | Sun was trying to open source it | May 29 20:51 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: alienating small developers that Oracle finds redundant | May 29 20:52 |
| schestowitz | Was? | May 29 20:52 |
| schestowitz | Nothing was reversed | May 29 20:52 |
| schestowitz | It's just slow | May 29 20:52 |
| schestowitz | And I don't think they can retract | May 29 20:52 |
| schestowitz | Except for future v ersions | May 29 20:52 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: Oracle is now pursuing the option of cashing in on businesses that utilize their language while, believing that small time developers can live without the extra new features coming down the pipes | May 29 20:53 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : how do u call this license then? | May 29 20:53 |
| _Hicham_ | it is even worse than previous Sun's EULA | May 29 20:53 |
| tessier | Methinks they just want to make damn sure nobody uses this feature in a production environment. This is more of a sneak peek for paying customers who are contractually bound against using this in a production environment. | May 29 20:53 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | _Hicham_: it seems they intend to fork Java development | May 29 20:53 |
| tessier | Makes more sense. | May 29 20:53 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | for the haves and havenots | May 29 20:53 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | tessier: perhaps | May 29 20:54 |
| _Hicham_ | I don't know what will OpenJDK's place in all of this | May 29 20:54 |
| schestowitz | ECT FUD... interviewing MS's lawsuits re: FOSS. "The Jacobsen case raises a new set of concerns for developers of proprietary software," Jonathan Moskin, partner in the intellectual property practice of White & Case, told LinuxInsider. http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/67192.html?wlc=1243627806 | May 29 20:57 |
| _Hicham_ | OpenJDK is primarily pushed by RedHat | May 29 20:57 |
| schestowitz | Yes, so it's not so 'dead' after all | May 29 20:58 |
| schestowitz | It will emerge again if promises about Java as FOSS are not honoured and upheld | May 29 20:58 |
| _Hicham_ | Java has never been FOSS | May 29 20:59 |
| schestowitz | Well, FOSS-bound, sort of | May 29 20:59 |
| schestowitz | Provisions | May 29 20:59 |
| _Hicham_ | never | May 29 20:59 |
| _Hicham_ | it have been a lie from the start | May 29 20:59 |
| _Hicham_ | I don't like it | May 29 21:00 |
| _Hicham_ | I never liked it | May 29 21:00 |
| _Hicham_ | I was forced to use it in some projects | May 29 21:00 |
| _Hicham_ | Google is gonna change this | May 29 21:02 |
| _Hicham_ | they are focusing more on Python | May 29 21:02 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC will help improving Python | May 29 21:03 |
| _Hicham_ | as he is a great FOSS activist | May 29 21:03 |
| MinceR | lol | May 29 21:03 |
| schestowitz | lol indeed | May 29 21:04 |
| DaemonFC | WMA 9.2 is superior to Lame MP3 3.98, but clearly loses to Vorbis 1.2 | May 29 21:04 |
| DaemonFC | at 64k | May 29 21:04 |
| schestowitz | POS activist | May 29 21:04 |
| DaemonFC | I compressed the WAV sample Microsoft provided for their comparison back in 2000 | May 29 21:05 |
| _Hicham_ | fuck WMA | May 29 21:05 |
| _Hicham_ | never liked that shit | May 29 21:05 |
| DaemonFC | although no format is as good as the CD, Vorbis was clearly better than WMA and MP3 | May 29 21:05 |
| DaemonFC | I can provide the files I used | May 29 21:05 |
| _Hicham_ | Oh my God | May 29 21:05 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 29 21:05 |
| schestowitz | Is this SCO giving up? http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090528181342101 | May 29 21:06 |
| DaemonFC | MP3 is clearly the worst format of the 3 | May 29 21:06 |
| DaemonFC | for sound quality | May 29 21:06 |
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| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : why people are still using MP3 then? | May 29 21:06 |
| DaemonFC | even with the latest LAME encoder | May 29 21:06 |
| DaemonFC | who knows | May 29 21:06 |
| _goblin | hi all | May 29 21:07 |
| _goblin | gtr | May 29 21:07 |
| _Hicham_ | LAME is an open source encoder | May 29 21:07 |
| _Hicham_ | hi _goblin | May 29 21:07 |
| DaemonFC | LAME still loses | May 29 21:07 |
| _goblin | Whats the discusion? | May 29 21:07 |
| DaemonFC | because of technical limitations in MP3 | May 29 21:07 |
| _Hicham_ | well, MP3 was a revolution in its era | May 29 21:08 |
| DaemonFC | http://rapidshare.de/files/47347802/Compare64.7z.html | May 29 21:08 |
| _Hicham_ | because its base idea is really smart | May 29 21:08 |
| DaemonFC | there you go, it's got the WAV source, an MP3, a WMA, and a Vorbis file | May 29 21:08 |
| _Hicham_ | what is that? a song made by u? | May 29 21:09 |
| DaemonFC | Vorbis q1, WMA and MP3 at 64k CBR | May 29 21:09 |
| _Hicham_ | did u sing the free software song? | May 29 21:09 |
| DaemonFC | VLC can play the WMA, it's not DRM'd obviously :P | May 29 21:09 |
| _Hicham_ | isn't there any way to remove DRM? | May 29 21:09 |
| _Hicham_ | I never googled about that | May 29 21:10 |
| DaemonFC | yes, but you need Windows XP to strip the DRM from a DRM'd WMA | May 29 21:10 |
| _Hicham_ | coz I don't need it | May 29 21:10 |
| DaemonFC | because there's an exploit in WMP 11 for XP | May 29 21:10 |
| DaemonFC | doesn't work on Vista though | May 29 21:10 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: small G? | May 29 21:10 |
| DaemonFC | well, not the one I've used anyway | May 29 21:11 |
| DaemonFC | it used to work on Vista | May 29 21:11 |
| _Hicham_ | fuck XP, fuck Vista, fuck MS, fuck their bullshit | May 29 21:11 |
| DaemonFC | but Microsoft patched over it with a new version of the DRM libraries | May 29 21:11 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: MS server sales down 29% today | May 29 21:11 |
| schestowitz | 'Just 29% | May 29 21:11 |
| *_goblin is now known as _Goblin | May 29 21:11 | |
| _Hicham_ | fuck Microsoft Libraries | May 29 21:11 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: I was joking | May 29 21:11 |
| _Hicham_ | fuck their CRT limitation in dlls | May 29 21:11 |
| _Goblin | lol | May 29 21:11 |
| _Goblin | :) | May 29 21:12 |
| schestowitz | Good news for Linux today | May 29 21:12 |
| schestowitz | And Microsoft goes cccccccrrrrazy | May 29 21:12 |
| schestowitz | Attack Linus frontally | May 29 21:12 |
| DaemonFC | why do you think I keep XP around? | May 29 21:12 |
| schestowitz | With anti-Linux ads it pays ASUS for | May 29 21:12 |
| _Goblin | yeah, Im going over your site now...just got back from work | May 29 21:12 |
| DaemonFC | it can bust through the DRM on those subscription files | May 29 21:12 |
| schestowitz | It used to do this in servers | May 29 21:12 |
| DaemonFC | unlimited supply of freee music files | May 29 21:12 |
| _Goblin | Roy, what about the Sky/Microsoft deal? | May 29 21:12 |
| schestowitz | "Get the facts" it was called | May 29 21:12 |
| schestowitz | Now on the desktop | May 29 21:12 |
| _Goblin | heard about that on the radio on the way home | May 29 21:12 |
| schestowitz | And you know just how huge Linux became on servers | May 29 21:13 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: some silly XBox thing | May 29 21:13 |
| schestowitz | Sky and many UK-based companies are in bed with MS | May 29 21:13 |
| DaemonFC | Napster is using 256k WMA currently | May 29 21:13 |
| schestowitz | That's nuthin' to judge by | May 29 21:13 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: The Sky will be falling with the Vole :-) | May 29 21:14 |
| _Goblin | WMA? Whats that ;) | May 29 21:15 |
| DaemonFC | what you do is you use a Visa gift card with like $5 on it and sign up for a 2 week free trial | May 29 21:15 |
| DaemonFC | that way they can't get your personal information and they can't bill you | May 29 21:15 |
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| _Hicham_ | vive piratebay | May 29 21:16 |
| _Hicham_ | wb tacone the maffioso | May 29 21:16 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP3#Design_limitations | May 29 21:18 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC will remove DRM'ed media from the world | May 29 21:18 |
| DaemonFC | LAME can never overcome those or else it won't be MP3 compatible anymore | May 29 21:18 |
| schestowitz | Haha. http://ostatic.com/blog/gigaom-pro-launched-subscription-service-has-in-depth-tech-research | May 29 21:18 |
| schestowitz | Who would pay for such stuff | May 29 21:18 |
| DaemonFC | so in many ways, MP3 is stuck in 1989 | May 29 21:18 |
| schestowitz | If it's insightful, they would publish it | May 29 21:18 |
| schestowitz | Subscription are good tools for accepting bribes | May 29 21:19 |
| schestowitz | You publish something | May 29 21:19 |
| schestowitz | Require sunbscription | May 29 21:19 |
| schestowitz | Company buys subs | May 29 21:19 |
| schestowitz | You then praise company in public | May 29 21:19 |
| schestowitz | Bribe transactions... | May 29 21:19 |
| schestowitz | Analysis do this.. | May 29 21:19 |
| DaemonFC | LAME doesn't actually fix many things, it works around bugs in the MP3 specification more than it really fixes anything | May 29 21:19 |
| DaemonFC | it's a hack | May 29 21:19 |
| DaemonFC | it can't fix MP3 without breaking compatibility | May 29 21:19 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: tacone submits to LinuxToday as taconer | May 29 21:20 |
| schestowitz | No mafia | May 29 21:20 |
| schestowitz | Don't say this | May 29 21:20 |
| schestowitz | Or he'll send someone to your house; -) | May 29 21:20 |
| DaemonFC | it has a better psychoaccoustic model than the reference MP3 encoder, that's where most of LAME's perceived quality improvements come from | May 29 21:20 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : I know | May 29 21:20 |
| schestowitz | Oooooh... you don't wanna know !! | May 29 21:21 |
| DaemonFC | the reference implementation also does not support variable bitrate | May 29 21:21 |
| DaemonFC | using VBR MP3s may confuse older portable players | May 29 21:21 |
| _Hicham_ | tacone maffioso bellissimo | May 29 21:21 |
| DaemonFC | it also encodes faster than the reference encoder | May 29 21:22 |
| tacone | ? | May 29 21:22 |
| tacone | already drunk ? | May 29 21:22 |
| DaemonFC | those are the benefits you get from using LAME rather than iTunes or Windows Media Player to encode MP3s | May 29 21:22 |
| _Hicham_ | I heard that Ogg is used on some audio players | May 29 21:22 |
| _Hicham_ | which is great | May 29 21:22 |
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| _Hicham_ | I d love to use those audio players | May 29 21:22 |
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| DaemonFC | My preference goes Vorbis, AAC, Lame MP3 | May 29 21:23 |
| DaemonFC | FAAC does a decent job of encoding AAC files | May 29 21:23 |
| _Hicham_ | can DaemonFC be encoded to another format? | May 29 21:24 |
| DaemonFC | OOXML | May 29 21:25 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 29 21:25 |
| DaemonFC | j/k | May 29 21:25 |
| _Hicham_ | is Schestowitz open source? | May 29 21:25 |
| DaemonFC | there is currently no office suite that supports the ISO version of OOXML, not even MS Office 2007 | May 29 21:25 |
| _Hicham_ | come on and vote | May 29 21:25 |
| DaemonFC | I found that amusing | May 29 21:26 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: maybe, but it's hard to disassemble me | May 29 21:26 |
| DaemonFC | OOo is having to replicate Office 2007's dialect of OOXML, not the ISO standard version | May 29 21:26 |
| _Hicham_ | do u use Office 2007? | May 29 21:27 |
| DaemonFC | the ISO standard was done for misdirection | May 29 21:27 |
| DaemonFC | too bloated | May 29 21:27 |
| DaemonFC | I do have the installation disc though | May 29 21:27 |
| DaemonFC | it has about a hojillion things I don't use and don't want | May 29 21:27 |
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| DaemonFC | I have the installer disc just in case I ever end up needing it | May 29 21:28 |
| _Hicham_ | Why use it since OpenOffice3.1 does all the stuff? | May 29 21:29 |
| DaemonFC | I tried using Office 2007, but that Julie Larson reen that they're parading around as a genius who was behind the Windows 7 UI royally fucked over office | May 29 21:29 |
| DaemonFC | it took me 20 minutes to figure out how to save a file | May 29 21:29 |
| DaemonFC | *Green | May 29 21:30 |
| _Hicham_ | Ctrl+Alt+S | May 29 21:31 |
| _Hicham_ | in all major apps | May 29 21:31 |
| DaemonFC | no, that doesn't work | May 29 21:32 |
| _Hicham_ | really? | May 29 21:32 |
| DaemonFC | I'm telling you, it is truly wicked | May 29 21:32 |
| DaemonFC | it defies even the standard Windows user interface conventions | May 29 21:32 |
| _Hicham_ | I don't know who is the genius that invented the ribbon | May 29 21:32 |
| DaemonFC | you have to relearn everything just to use MS Office | May 29 21:32 |
| _Hicham_ | the ribbon is copyrighted | May 29 21:33 |
| DaemonFC | interestingly enough, OOo can't save docx | May 29 21:33 |
| DaemonFC | so it's not on the list of approved software | May 29 21:33 |
| _Hicham_ | you have to mention it clearly in ur code that u thank MS | May 29 21:33 |
| DaemonFC | it can import OOXML but can't save it | May 29 21:33 |
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| _Hicham_ | there is a Novell plugin that lets u do that | May 29 21:34 |
| schestowitz | Isn't that Patent Hawk? | May 29 21:34 |
| _Hicham_ | I saved docx with OOo | May 29 21:34 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 29 21:34 |
| schestowitz | Gary Odom? | May 29 21:35 |
| DaemonFC | Go-OO can't do it either | May 29 21:35 |
| _Hicham_ | the blue ribbon is even available in Linux | May 29 21:37 |
| _Hicham_ | I ve read about some toolkit offering it | May 29 21:37 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : should I test openSUSE? | May 29 21:37 |
| DaemonFC | I usually save to Office 2003 XML or doc files | May 29 21:38 |
| _Hicham_ | who is the idiot that want to save files in docx? | May 29 21:38 |
| DaemonFC | have to use Microsoft formats | May 29 21:39 |
| DaemonFC | not my decision | May 29 21:39 |
| schestowitz | I hate t when gadgets run Linux while not supporting Linux desktops.. Linux Gadgets < http://blogs.fsfe.org/adridg/?p=44 > | May 29 21:41 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: you could | May 29 21:41 |
| schestowitz | But many already do | May 29 21:42 |
| _Hicham_ | did u test it before? | May 29 21:43 |
| schestowitz | True cost of migrating to open source < http://www.zdnetasia.com/insight/software/0,39044822,62054142,00.htm > Good ol' chart. | May 29 21:43 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I used SUSE for years | May 29 21:44 |
| schestowitz | Never OpenSUSE | May 29 21:44 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: WebOS and Android are to Linux as Mac OSX is to BSD | May 29 21:44 |
| _Hicham_ | SLES and SLED? | May 29 21:45 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: those are OSs that have almost divorced any userland and even most developing features from the kernel in favor of a proprietary API | May 29 21:45 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: wow ZDNet Asia in not invaded by M$ shills yet | May 29 21:46 |
| DaemonFC | yes | May 29 21:47 |
| DaemonFC | the novell docx extension works | May 29 21:48 |
| DaemonFC | I can save to docx now | May 29 21:48 |
| DaemonFC | I feel dirty | May 29 21:48 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | then again with "perks" like these I can why M$ employees go out of their way to show their "patriotism" for the company: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik0T_O5FZNA&feature=related :P | May 29 21:48 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | mind you I found that video within the "Related Videos" section from your's | May 29 21:48 |
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| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: as long as the development of that extension is forked in the future to another developer you should feel fine | May 29 21:49 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | M$ employees get all the free Starbucks they can drink to keep them wired while writing the most monolithic and redundantly complicated code in the world | May 29 21:50 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | they are also the #1 consumers of Zunes | May 29 21:50 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: yes, Palm and Google just use Linux | May 29 21:52 |
| schestowitz | Does Palm give patches? | May 29 21:52 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: neither. I use SuSE | May 29 21:52 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: true, ZDNet Asia is still quite devoid of Microdoft shills | May 29 21:53 |
| schestowitz | In ZDNet UK you need to know who to be careful of | May 29 21:53 |
| schestowitz | In ZDNet Australia they are usually OK | May 29 21:53 |
| schestowitz | Victoria Ho is OK | May 29 21:53 |
| _Hicham_ | u mean before Novell bought it? | May 29 21:53 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: nope and what can they contribute since Palm only utilizes the kernel for its hardware support | May 29 21:53 |
| DaemonFC | Go-OO with the docx converter seems fairly compatible | May 29 21:54 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: John C. Dvorak's Trolling Techniques < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMQv0j29WHA > | May 29 21:55 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: yes, I used SuSE at home and work before the deal. | May 29 21:56 |
| schestowitz | That's why I cared | May 29 21:56 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: still, Palm sort of advertises Linux passively | May 29 21:56 |
| DaemonFC | Dvorak is awesome | May 29 21:56 |
| _Hicham_ | that is why u picked Mandriva, because it is the closest to it | May 29 21:56 |
| schestowitz | Like TomTom | May 29 21:56 |
| schestowitz | You can say that Palm uses Linux | May 29 21:56 |
| schestowitz | And that's about it | May 29 21:56 |
| schestowitz | And you build a larger dependent ecosystem around Linux | May 29 21:57 |
| schestowitz | maybe they'll join the Kernel Foundation[sic] | May 29 21:57 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: not really they seem to show off more about how WebOS's API is HTML/CSS based | May 29 21:57 |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: yes, but passively they acknowledge running on Linux | May 29 21:57 |
| schestowitz | You have to squeeze that out maybe | May 29 21:58 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: but Palm is not interested in actually changing or adding any major features to the Linux kernel, if they do they may just take the Apple route | May 29 21:58 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/05/29/29-year-old-idiot-fathered-21-children-with-11-different-womenon-a-minimum-wage-job/ | May 29 21:58 |
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| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: even if Palm acknowledges it, many Linux developers would be still disappointed that beyond handlers for basic hardware functions and peripherals along with VGA handlers there isn't much interaction the developer can take advantage of between the WebOS API and kernel | May 29 22:00 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: its probably even more abstracted then Aqua & Quartz are from Darwin | May 29 22:00 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I like Dvorak Uncensored | May 29 22:01 |
| DaemonFC | he's amusing | May 29 22:01 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/05/28/church-of-scientology-banned-from-wikipedia-updates/ | May 29 22:02 |
| neighborlee | LOL | May 29 22:02 |
| DaemonFC | My respect for Wikipedia just went up a notch | May 29 22:02 |
| neighborlee | indeed | May 29 22:02 |
| DaemonFC | jesus | May 29 22:03 |
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| schestowitz | BN critic debunked: http://jonreagan.wordpress.com/2009/05/28/its-time-for-change-part-i/#comment-832 | May 29 22:03 |
| DaemonFC | ClamAV's virus database went up about 20,000 signatures this week | May 29 22:03 |
| DaemonFC | !!!!!! | May 29 22:03 |
| DaemonFC | this WEEK | May 29 22:03 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: well the Wikipedia community takes their pride in having unbias and pure academia driven material very seriously | May 29 22:04 |
| DaemonFC | well, at least that's one group of shitheads down | May 29 22:04 |
| schestowitz | The press likes finding wrinkles in Wikipedia | May 29 22:04 |
| DaemonFC | they should get rid of Walmart, Exxon Mobil, and Microsoft next | May 29 22:04 |
| schestowitz | It scares them | May 29 22:04 |
| schestowitz | Same with Craiglist | May 29 22:04 |
| schestowitz | Same with Craigslist | May 29 22:04 |
| schestowitz | Here's a silly one: http://jonreagan.wordpress.com/2009/05/28/its-time-for-change-part-i/#comment-832 | May 29 22:05 |
| schestowitz | Oops. http://jonreagan.wordpress.com/2009/05/28/its-time-for-change-part-i/#comment-832 | May 29 22:05 |
| schestowitz | Damn. | May 29 22:05 |
| schestowitz | http://soabestpractices.ulitzer.com/node/980564/print | May 29 22:05 |
| schestowitz | They call opening of APIs "open source" | May 29 22:06 |
| schestowitz | That's such a corruption of existing terminology | May 29 22:06 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: API documentation helps with reverse engineering efforts | May 29 22:06 |
| DaemonFC | at least | May 29 22:06 |
| DaemonFC | anyway, Scientology hasn't been blocked | May 29 22:07 |
| DaemonFC | they can still use their DSL/Cable at home | May 29 22:07 |
| DaemonFC | under their own names | May 29 22:07 |
| DaemonFC | but this may slow them down | May 29 22:07 |
| DaemonFC | it's a nice gesture at least | May 29 22:07 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/05/28/java-html5-will-kill-the-os/ | May 29 22:08 |
| _Hicham_ | this pulseaudio in Fedora 11 still have some minor problems | May 29 22:08 |
| DaemonFC | flame bait for schestowitz | May 29 22:08 |
| MinceR | pulseaudio is the problem | May 29 22:08 |
| MinceR | by itself | May 29 22:08 |
| _Hicham_ | to tune volume, u have to access the real virtual card | May 29 22:08 |
| neighborlee | _Hicham_, no surprise on any level | May 29 22:08 |
| _Hicham_ | by typing alsamixer -c 0 | May 29 22:08 |
| neighborlee | its a problem whereever it goes..thats beeen my experience for most part | May 29 22:09 |
| DaemonFC | he is right though, HTML 5 has a better shot than JAVA if only because it's not proprietary and performs better | May 29 22:09 |
| _Hicham_ | It is really trying to organize the mess in Linux audio | May 29 22:09 |
| _Hicham_ | but it is too hard | May 29 22:09 |
| DaemonFC | Java lost all its momentum while Sun sat there with its thumb up its ass | May 29 22:09 |
| neighborlee | java is free now | May 29 22:09 |
| MinceR | no, it's trying to mess things up | May 29 22:09 |
| DaemonFC | reimplementing every API on every platform | May 29 22:09 |
| _Hicham_ | Linux has long suffered from audio | May 29 22:09 |
| neighborlee | 99% at least isn't it ? | May 29 22:09 |
| MinceR | it's redoing things alsa already does | May 29 22:09 |
| neighborlee | _Hicham_, indeed it has | May 29 22:09 |
| MinceR | and it adds opportunities for audio to skip and stutter | May 29 22:09 |
| _Hicham_ | neighborlee: Java is still closed source | May 29 22:09 |
| _Hicham_ | a lot of applets doesn't work with OpenJDK | May 29 22:10 |
| MinceR | my system used to be able to play music well even under normal load | May 29 22:10 |
| MinceR | thanks in part to pulseaudio, those days are gone | May 29 22:10 |
| DaemonFC | HTML 5 is what Stallman fears the most because it's now possible to use standard web technologies to create obfuscated code and in effect, entire applications | May 29 22:10 |
| DaemonFC | he doesn't like this because it means more proprietary apps that can run on Linux | May 29 22:10 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : what distro do u use? | May 29 22:10 |
| DaemonFC | in effect | May 29 22:10 |
| MinceR | _Hicham_: ubuntu trainwreck edition, also known as intrepid ibex | May 29 22:10 |
| DaemonFC | no, Trainwreck Edition is Jaunty | May 29 22:11 |
| DaemonFC | Ibex was the warm up act | May 29 22:11 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 29 22:11 |
| MinceR | also known as "things were working too well, let's fuck everything up" edition | May 29 22:11 |
| MinceR | well, jaunty could be even worse for all i know | May 29 22:11 |
| DaemonFC | it is | May 29 22:11 |
| DaemonFC | much worse | May 29 22:11 |
| neighborlee | _Hicham_, most of it is not | May 29 22:11 |
| schestowitz | Edgy was the bad apple | May 29 22:11 |
| schestowitz | 6.10 | May 29 22:11 |
| neighborlee | _Hicham_, thats why fedora is embracing it | May 29 22:11 |
| DaemonFC | they royally fucked up the entire sound system | May 29 22:11 |
| DaemonFC | to the point where you need your own kernel and new Pulseaudio packages | May 29 22:11 |
| MinceR | up until gutsy, the most trouble i had was upgrading | May 29 22:11 |
| MinceR | well, they seem to have fixed upgrading... and broke everything else | May 29 22:12 |
| DaemonFC | that was what I had to end up doing to make the sound system behave properly | May 29 22:12 |
| _Hicham_ | Fedora is embracing OpenJDK | May 29 22:12 |
| _Hicham_ | OpenJDK was started by RedHat as IcedTea | May 29 22:12 |
| DaemonFC | Fedora is getting better, and Ubuntu is taking a nose dive | May 29 22:12 |
| MinceR | of course, killing pulseaudio makes several apps unable to output audio | May 29 22:12 |
| _Hicham_ | and then Sun liked the idea | May 29 22:12 |
| neighborlee | _Hicham_, close enough | May 29 22:12 |
| DaemonFC | it's good that they're targeting former XP users with low expectations | May 29 22:12 |
| _Hicham_ | Pulse Audio is working as a charm for me | May 29 22:13 |
| _Hicham_ | I had just one issue | May 29 22:13 |
| _Hicham_ | the sound volume | May 29 22:13 |
| _Hicham_ | which I just solved right now | May 29 22:13 |
| DaemonFC | if it comes down to XP vs Ubuntu Jaunty, that's just a no win situation | May 29 22:13 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 29 22:13 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu is a horrible example of the potential of a Linux distribution | May 29 22:14 |
| _Hicham_ | Ubuntu just copies from the other distros | May 29 22:14 |
| MinceR | they didn't copy upstart | May 29 22:14 |
| DaemonFC | the worst possible ambassador of free software | May 29 22:14 |
| _Hicham_ | upstart is an exception | May 29 22:14 |
| DaemonFC | Upstart was the one good idea that came out of Ubuntu | May 29 22:14 |
| DaemonFC | and will probably outlive it | May 29 22:14 |
| _Hicham_ | and the developer was trying to push in debian long before | May 29 22:15 |
| DaemonFC | if Ubuntu crashes and burns there's no reason why Red Hat couldn't maintain it | May 29 22:15 |
| _Hicham_ | but Debian devs refused | May 29 22:15 |
| _Hicham_ | for compatibility issues | May 29 22:15 |
| _Hicham_ | just like replacing bash with dash | May 29 22:15 |
| DaemonFC | that's why open source projects are really so much better for programmers | May 29 22:15 |
| _Hicham_ | which create infinite problems in Ubuntu | May 29 22:15 |
| DaemonFC | if Microsoft went under, you'd see years of work just die | May 29 22:15 |
| DaemonFC | with open source, anyone can pick up the torch and bad ideas can be left where they died | May 29 22:16 |
| _Hicham_ | The guy is a Debian programmer | May 29 22:16 |
| _Hicham_ | so u can't say it is Ubuntu | May 29 22:16 |
| _Hicham_ | he just pushed it through Ubuntu | May 29 22:16 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, it makes sense, use Ubuntu's resources to get it off the ground | May 29 22:17 |
| DaemonFC | there's nothing in it that requires Ubuntu | May 29 22:17 |
| DaemonFC | so it was a good call | May 29 22:17 |
| _Hicham_ | apart from upstart, Ubuntu create osd-notify | May 29 22:17 |
| MinceR | disabling root and using sudo was a good idea too | May 29 22:17 |
| DaemonFC | bad idea with osd-notify | May 29 22:17 |
| _Hicham_ | which is a great innovation to the world of FOSS | May 29 22:17 |
| _Hicham_ | disabling root is a Debian idea | May 29 22:18 |
| DaemonFC | it expose a lot of bugs and is annoying | May 29 22:18 |
| MinceR | i didn't know debian introduced that too | May 29 22:18 |
| DaemonFC | and there's stuff they need to do that's more important than that | May 29 22:18 |
| _Hicham_ | Fedora is against disabling root | May 29 22:18 |
| _Hicham_ | and I am against disabling root | May 29 22:18 |
| DaemonFC | there's no good reason to cripple the OS | May 29 22:18 |
| DaemonFC | to create perceived security | May 29 22:18 |
| _Hicham_ | Debian is against disabling root | May 29 22:18 |
| DaemonFC | you can use sudo without disabling root | May 29 22:19 |
| DaemonFC | that's how it was meant to be used | May 29 22:19 |
| DaemonFC | disabling root and calling that a security feature is just false sense of security | May 29 22:19 |
| _Hicham_ | Shuttleworth just didn't get along with Debian devs | May 29 22:19 |
| MinceR | there's no need to set a root password | May 29 22:20 |
| _Hicham_ | so he said, let fuck Debian | May 29 22:20 |
| DaemonFC | you can easily reenable root if you have a sudo password | May 29 22:20 |
| _Hicham_ | and use my money to spread Ubuntu | May 29 22:20 |
| MinceR | especially when you have multiple people admining the same machine | May 29 22:20 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: there's no need to | May 29 22:20 |
| DaemonFC | so can malware that guesses your password | May 29 22:20 |
| DaemonFC | there's reasons to have root enabled | May 29 22:20 |
| DaemonFC | most people don't need it | May 29 22:20 |
| MinceR | bah, why do i even bother with you | May 29 22:20 |
| DaemonFC | but it's not making the OS more secure by hiding it | May 29 22:20 |
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| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC is the best troll in the world | May 29 22:21 |
| _Hicham_ | no doubt about that | May 29 22:21 |
| DaemonFC | even Ubuntu acknowledges that sudo doesn't always work | May 29 22:21 |
| _Hicham_ | his abilities are improving day by day | May 29 22:21 |
| DaemonFC | Downsides of using sudo | May 29 22:22 |
| DaemonFC | Although for desktops the benefits of using sudo are great, there are possible issues which need to be noted: | May 29 22:22 |
| DaemonFC | * | May 29 22:22 |
| DaemonFC | Redirecting the output of commands run with sudo requires a different approach. For instance consider sudo ls > /root/somefile will not work since it is the shell that tries to write to that file. You can use ls | sudo tee -a /root/somefile to append, or ls | sudo tee /root/somefile to overwrite contents. You could also pass the whole command to a shell process run under sudo to have... | May 29 22:22 |
| DaemonFC | ...the file written to with root permissions, such as sudo sh -c "ls > /root/somefile". | May 29 22:22 |
| DaemonFC | * In a lot of office environments the ONLY local user on a system is root. All other users are imported using NSS techniques such as nss-ldap. To setup a workstation, or fix it, in the case of a network failure where nss-ldap is broken, root is required. This tends to leave the system unusable unless cracked. An extra local user, or an enabled root password is needed here. The local user... | May 29 22:22 |
| DaemonFC | ...account should have its $HOME on a local disk, _not_ on NFS (or any other networked filesystem), and a .profile/.bashrc that doesn't reference any files on NFS mounts. This is usually the case for root, but if adding a non-root rescue account, you will have to take these precautions manually. | May 29 22:22 |
| DaemonFC | o Alternatively, a sysadmin type account can be implemented as a local user on all systems, and granted proper sudo privileges. As explained in the benefits section above, commands can be easily tracked and audited. | May 29 22:22 |
| _Hicham_ | I prever "su - c command" to sudo | May 29 22:22 |
| DaemonFC | so you may need it, but we won't tell you how to use it | May 29 22:22 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 29 22:22 |
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| DaemonFC | oh wow, they edited the page | May 29 22:23 |
| DaemonFC | and it tells you how to enable it | May 29 22:23 |
| DaemonFC | must have gotten some complaints | May 29 22:23 |
| _Hicham_ | is jaunty still using gdm 2.20? | May 29 22:24 |
| DaemonFC | nice that they denied a valid use for it for years then quietly retconned the way to turn it on | May 29 22:24 |
| _Hicham_ | wow, they really still using gdm-2.20 | May 29 22:25 |
| _Hicham_ | what a shame | May 29 22:25 |
| _Hicham_ | they are saying loudly : fuck you GNOME | May 29 22:25 |
| _Hicham_ | we use what we want, and we will never help | May 29 22:26 |
| _Hicham_ | we will just profit from ur work | May 29 22:26 |
| MinceR | they should use kde3 | May 29 22:26 |
| _Hicham_ | nice way to help upstream projects | May 29 22:26 |
| _Hicham_ | my respect for Ubuntu decreases day after day | May 29 22:27 |
| DaemonFC | it started as an easy to use Debian | May 29 22:27 |
| DaemonFC | what the hell happened? | May 29 22:28 |
| _Hicham_ | Mr Shuttleworth used his money to do what is in his head | May 29 22:28 |
| _Hicham_ | he established Ubuntu Foundation, which never received a dime from anyone | May 29 22:29 |
| _Hicham_ | Fedora 11 is delayed by another one week | May 29 22:29 |
| _Hicham_ | I like this transparency with users | May 29 22:29 |
| _Hicham_ | and developers | May 29 22:30 |
| _Hicham_ | sorry our dear users, we can't ship an unfinished product | May 29 22:30 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC will probably start a distro of his own | May 29 22:31 |
| DaemonFC | I just tell everyone asking about Linux anymore to use Mandriva | May 29 22:34 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu has been dumbed down and outright botched past the point of being practical to use | May 29 22:34 |
| _Hicham_ | Mandriva is a great choice | May 29 22:35 |
| _Hicham_ | It has always been a great choice | May 29 22:35 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, according to Winamp, this FLAC is averaging 1060k in its compressed state | May 29 22:36 |
| DaemonFC | of course it decompresses to like what, 1520k? equal to the CD | May 29 22:37 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, the Vorbis q8 file does sound different | May 29 22:37 |
| DaemonFC | mainly on lows | May 29 22:37 |
| DaemonFC | you really have to listen for it though | May 29 22:38 |
| *DaemonFC might try again at q9 | May 29 22:40 | |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, better but still not quite right | May 29 22:43 |
| DaemonFC | 10 is as high as vorbis goes | May 29 22:44 |
| DaemonFC | that averages around 500k | May 29 22:44 |
| DaemonFC | sounds identical to the FLAC at this point | May 29 22:45 |
| DaemonFC | to me at least | May 29 22:45 |
| DaemonFC | with a 50% reduction in file size | May 29 22:45 |
| DaemonFC | the main difference is that MP3 can't achieve transparency to me at any bitrate it's capable of | May 29 22:46 |
| DaemonFC | with any encoder | May 29 22:47 |
| _Hicham_ | try Dirac | May 29 22:48 |
| _Hicham_ | it seems that Dirac is far better in compressing | May 29 22:48 |
| DaemonFC | Vorbis is far superior to MP3 at any bitrate, but has the advantage of a higher maximum bitrate too | May 29 22:49 |
| DaemonFC | MP3 can't go past 320k | May 29 22:49 |
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| DaemonFC | I'm checking out this Cowon player | May 29 22:50 |
| DaemonFC | I may get it | May 29 22:50 |
| DaemonFC | oh | May 29 22:50 |
| DaemonFC | hey, this thing uses FAT32 | May 29 22:51 |
| *DaemonFC pukes | May 29 22:51 | |
| MinceR | pretty much all portable music players do | May 29 22:51 |
| DaemonFC | it does support Vorbis at any bitrate | May 29 22:51 |
| DaemonFC | and FLAC | May 29 22:51 |
| DaemonFC | that's a plus | May 29 22:51 |
| DaemonFC | but it does not support Theora | May 29 22:52 |
| DaemonFC | only WMV and Divx | May 29 22:52 |
| DaemonFC | they probably licensed FAT32 from Microsoft if they support Windows Media | May 29 22:53 |
| DaemonFC | I'd prefer a hard drive anyway | May 29 22:53 |
| DaemonFC | more storage | May 29 22:53 |
| DaemonFC | at least it won't tell you to go forth and fuck yourself if you're using something but Windows | May 29 22:54 |
| DaemonFC | most players do | May 29 22:54 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: will you moved to kde 4.x? | May 29 22:55 |
| schestowitz | *love | May 29 22:55 |
| schestowitz | *love | May 29 22:55 |
| schestowitz | Damn *Move | May 29 22:55 |
| schestowitz | I'm still on 3.5.10 | May 29 22:55 |
| DaemonFC | KDE and GNOME are both getting fat | May 29 22:55 |
| DaemonFC | but at least GNOME is relatively stable | May 29 22:55 |
| schestowitz | PCs too | May 29 22:55 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: there are options | May 29 22:55 |
| schestowitz | Here's the thing | May 29 22:55 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: intrepid has no kde3 | May 29 22:55 |
| schestowitz | With Windows, they must | May 29 22:56 |
| schestowitz | They have no options | May 29 22:56 |
| MinceR | i'm planning to try debian lenny, ecomorph and metisse | May 29 22:56 |
| schestowitz | So a fat Vista is a fat VISTA | May 29 22:56 |
| DaemonFC | you don't have to use Explorer as your shell on Windows | May 29 22:56 |
| schestowitz | You can't quite run blackbox on a 'light' vista | May 29 22:56 |
| DaemonFC | you don't even have to use Blackbox | May 29 22:56 |
| MinceR | currently i'm running gnome with compiz and a couple kde4 components | May 29 22:56 |
| schestowitz | I tired metisse once | May 29 22:56 |
| MinceR | what is it like? | May 29 22:56 |
| DaemonFC | I believe Litestep is still around | May 29 22:56 |
| schestowitz | On my Mandriva live CD while on vacation | May 29 22:56 |
| schestowitz | It's OK | May 29 22:56 |
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| DaemonFC | I used that on Windows 98 and Windows 2000 machines | May 29 22:57 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: runs all the apps you need, so.. | May 29 22:57 |
| schestowitz | Stable | May 29 22:57 |
| DaemonFC | yes, Litestep is still in development | May 29 22:57 |
| _Hicham_ | what is stable in here? | May 29 22:57 |
| DaemonFC | and is Vista compatible | May 29 22:57 |
| DaemonFC | so there :P | May 29 22:57 |
| schestowitz | I think is uses fvwm | May 29 22:57 |
| MinceR | i seem to remember that too | May 29 22:58 |
| MinceR | but their website doesn't mention it | May 29 22:58 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: Metisse | May 29 22:58 |
| schestowitz | Oops. _Hicham_ | May 29 22:58 |
| MinceR | it would mean that it can do anything and the kitchen sink if one is willing to spend a month on configuring it | May 29 22:58 |
| schestowitz | Yeah. | May 29 22:58 |
| schestowitz | I tiled some Windows | May 29 22:58 |
| schestowitz | Like the terminal | May 29 22:58 |
| schestowitz | For kicks | May 29 22:58 |
| MinceR | on the other hand, it doesn't do effects :/ | May 29 22:58 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.lsdev.org/doku.php | May 29 22:58 |
| DaemonFC | There's also a native 64-bit build of Litestep for Win64 | May 29 22:59 |
| MinceR | btw, i've discovered that bbkeys can decorate/undecorate windows under compiz | May 29 22:59 |
| MinceR | so that's one less kwin feature to worry about :> | May 29 22:59 |
| DaemonFC | looks like they're yanking out Windows 9x support | May 29 22:59 |
| DaemonFC | meh, unbloats it a bit I suppose | May 29 22:59 |
| MinceR | it also has a nice window list hotkey, if i really only want to see window titles | May 29 23:00 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC is to take over Windows | May 29 23:00 |
| _Hicham_ | would u buy Windows from MS DaemonFC? | May 29 23:00 |
| DaemonFC | Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? | May 29 23:00 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 29 23:00 |
| MinceR | (like alt-tab in kde3) | May 29 23:01 |
| _Hicham_ | not a single copy | May 29 23:01 |
| _Hicham_ | I mean the the whole bunch | May 29 23:01 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.geoshell.org/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=21&g2_itemId=3939 | May 29 23:02 |
| _Hicham_ | to use set up ur new company | May 29 23:02 |
| DaemonFC | hell no | May 29 23:02 |
| DaemonFC | Windows is a disaster to manage when you have it running on a bunch of systems you have to deal with | May 29 23:02 |
| DaemonFC | and the more people that use it, the worse it gets | May 29 23:03 |
| MinceR | and "bunch" starts at 1 | May 29 23:03 |
| DaemonFC | nah, if you know what you're doing and are the only one using them it's fine | May 29 23:05 |
| DaemonFC | when things get hairy is when you have dozens of users with little or no idea what they're doing | May 29 23:05 |
| DaemonFC | standard user accounds solve some problems and make more | May 29 23:05 |
| DaemonFC | *accounts | May 29 23:05 |
| schestowitz | <MinceR> on the other hand, it doesn't do effects :/ | May 29 23:09 |
| schestowitz | You want effects? Take acid. | May 29 23:09 |
| schestowitz | :-p | May 29 23:09 |
| MinceR | lol | May 29 23:09 |
| MinceR | why take acid if my wm can do it for me? | May 29 23:09 |
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| schestowitz | Seriously now.. the effects are good for smooth X | May 29 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Like when you move windows about in the screens | May 29 23:09 |
| MinceR | i like my smoothly appearing windows | May 29 23:09 |
| schestowitz | I hardly use the effects for much | May 29 23:09 |
| schestowitz | No even ripples for notifications | May 29 23:09 |
| _Hicham_ | effects are great | May 29 23:11 |
| _Hicham_ | I always enable them | May 29 23:11 |
| _Hicham_ | now with dri2, effects are much cooler | May 29 23:11 |
| DaemonFC | Vorbis q10 seems to be an acceptable FLAC substitute :P | May 29 23:12 |
| DaemonFC | no perceived loss in quality and the files are half the size | May 29 23:12 |
| MinceR | a lossy encoding is no acceptable substitute for a lossless one. | May 29 23:13 |
| DaemonFC | meh, says you | May 29 23:13 |
| _Hicham_ | everything is lossy | May 29 23:14 |
| DaemonFC | it's a trade off, with FLAC you end up dealing with absolutely massive files | May 29 23:14 |
| DaemonFC | for no quality increase you'll perceive | May 29 23:14 |
| MinceR | ...yet. | May 29 23:15 |
| DaemonFC | FLAC is generally an archival format | May 29 23:15 |
| DaemonFC | moving them to backup then using Vorbis locally can make sense | May 29 23:15 |
| DaemonFC | that way you can encode the FLAC files again if a better encoder comes out later | May 29 23:15 |
| DaemonFC | hearing generally does not improve as you age anyway | May 29 23:17 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 29 23:17 |
| MinceR | my sound system does though | May 29 23:18 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-138-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has left #boycottnovell | May 29 23:24 | |
| DaemonFC | theres also lossywav and lossyflac | May 29 23:25 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, lossywavsharp | May 29 23:27 |
| DaemonFC | that looks interesting | May 29 23:27 |
| DaemonFC | and portable :P | May 29 23:27 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=64666&st=0&p=577042&#entry577042 | May 29 23:28 |
| DaemonFC | I'm decompressing one of my FLACs to a WAV file to test out LossyWAV | May 29 23:31 |
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| ziggyfish | good morning all. | May 29 23:37 |
| ziggyfish | reading the comments on | May 29 23:38 |
| ziggyfish | Microsoft support: Just wiggle the mouse until the problem goes away <http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10250986-16.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=TheOpenRoad > | May 29 23:38 |
| ziggyfish | this is such a comment that only Microsoft can do: | May 29 23:39 |
| ziggyfish | So is Oracle ever going to update their driver and fix their problem? | May 29 23:39 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, this is a neat trick | May 29 23:40 |
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| DaemonFC | it preprocesses WAV files to make them more compressible with FLAC | May 29 23:41 |
| DaemonFC | so the FLAC ends up being essentially lossless and it's only slightly bigger than a q10 Vorbis file | May 29 23:41 |
| DaemonFC | In my experiment I used Enter Sandman from Metallica :) 55.7 megs as a WAV, 37.4 megs as FLAC, and 23 megs as a FLAC is I preprocessed it with LossyWAV | May 29 23:42 |
| DaemonFC | 18.2 megs as a q10 Vorbis file | May 29 23:44 |
| MinceR | hm, isn't lossyWAV called "mpeg1 layer 3 audio in a RIFF file"? | May 29 23:45 |
| DaemonFC | no, my understanding of this is that it shifts the relatively empty frequency ranges in the uncompressed PCM source and covers them in white noise | May 29 23:47 |
| DaemonFC | makes the file more compressible | May 29 23:47 |
| DaemonFC | which is actually fairly clever | May 29 23:49 |
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| ziggyfish | DaemonFC, I've seen FLAC be smaller than MP3. converted from the same WAV file. | May 29 23:53 |
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