*kentma has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | Jun 04 00:01 | |
*kentma (n=user@ellandroad.demon.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 00:01 | |
*neighborlee (n=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 00:12 | |
tessier | schestowitz: Installing new network switch in the rack tonight. You may or may not notice a short outage while we move some cable. | Jun 04 00:13 |
---|---|---|
tessier | We should be getting some new cpu resources in the next week or two also. Then we'll update the website and be ready to run some ads and sell some services. | Jun 04 00:13 |
tessier | Aiming for PCI-DSS compliant security. | Jun 04 00:14 |
schestowitz | Excellent, thanks! | Jun 04 00:21 |
*ThistleWeb has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Jun 04 00:23 | |
neighborlee | schestowitz, has there been any updates on ecma license stuff, from any source ? | Jun 04 00:27 |
schestowitz | This is funny: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZB0lLIcXIA | Jun 04 00:27 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: nope | Jun 04 00:28 |
neighborlee | k thank you | Jun 04 00:28 |
*neighborlee has quit ("Leaving") | Jun 04 00:33 | |
*neonfloss (n=neon@rdsl-0393.tor.pathcom.com) has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving") | Jun 04 00:34 | |
DaemonFC | hmmm | Jun 04 00:35 |
DaemonFC | MP4 with variable bitrate frim 8-400k | Jun 04 00:36 |
DaemonFC | seems fairly nice | Jun 04 00:36 |
*yuhong (n=chatzill@pool-96-240-114-114.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 00:38 | |
yuhong | BTW, on puppet presses, here is another example. | Jun 04 00:39 |
yuhong | From http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=169450&cid=14122939: | Jun 04 00:39 |
yuhong | "This rather reminds me of Wall Street's desperate attempts to declare the Google auction IPO a failure, even after Google got more than twice the dollars per share than they would have in an investment bank-priced IPO. If you can't beat them, have your puppet press hang an ugly label on them." | Jun 04 00:39 |
DaemonFC | yay | Jun 04 00:40 |
DaemonFC | retribution! | Jun 04 00:40 |
DaemonFC | :P | Jun 04 00:40 |
yuhong | BTW, on puppet presses, here is another example. | Jun 04 00:41 |
yuhong | in case you didn't already see it. | Jun 04 00:41 |
yuhong | From http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=169450&cid=14122939: | Jun 04 00:42 |
yuhong | "This rather reminds me of Wall Street's desperate attempts to declare the Google auction IPO a failure, even after Google got more than twice the dollars per share than they would have in an investment bank-priced IPO. If you can't beat them, have your puppet press hang an ugly label on them." | Jun 04 00:42 |
*yuhong has quit (Client Quit) | Jun 04 00:42 | |
DaemonFC | Nero's AAC encoder actually isn't all that bad | Jun 04 00:42 |
DaemonFC | quality-wise, you really can't get a one size fits all codec is seems | Jun 04 00:51 |
DaemonFC | they all handle certain audio samples better than others | Jun 04 00:51 |
*jbartosik has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jun 04 00:56 | |
*_Goblin has quit ("Lost terminal") | Jun 04 00:56 | |
DaemonFC | Here's an example of one subtle way Microsoft makes MP4 and Vorbis unattractive on Windows | Jun 04 01:54 |
DaemonFC | Here you notice that when I select the MP4, Windows Explorer just gives me the file information same as any standard file | Jun 04 01:54 |
DaemonFC | http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/6579/42040606.png | Jun 04 01:54 |
DaemonFC | http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/8299/94315462.png | Jun 04 01:55 |
DaemonFC | But when I click on the WMA, suddenly Windows Explorer is a tag editor too | Jun 04 01:55 |
DaemonFC | it can edit tags on MP3s too, but with the number of people that use MP3, I doubt they could have gotten away with giving it no support | Jun 04 01:56 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft still hosts a comparison site for WMA and MP3 boasting that their 2007 iteration of WMA beats the now 20 year old MP3 | Jun 04 01:56 |
DaemonFC | which is a bit like bragging that they won the special olympics by shooting the blind guy in both kneecaps | Jun 04 01:57 |
DaemonFC | hmmm, 4 gig sandisk player for $38 | Jun 04 02:27 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: I wonder why only the extremely expensive and extremely cheap players play Vorbis | Jun 04 02:28 |
DaemonFC | this is odd | Jun 04 02:32 |
DaemonFC | the manufacturer lists this for $250 but Newegg is selling them for $70 | Jun 04 02:32 |
*neonfloss (n=neon@rdsl-0393.tor.pathcom.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 03:07 | |
DaemonFC | where is oiaohm when you need him | Jun 04 03:28 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: Would you think that libmtp is violating Microsoft patents? | Jun 04 03:28 |
DaemonFC | or potentially anyway? | Jun 04 03:29 |
DaemonFC | this MP3 player I'm looking at can do MTP or MSC mode | Jun 04 03:29 |
DaemonFC | I'll probably just put it in MSC mode and use that since Windows and Linux both understand it | Jun 04 03:30 |
*fewa (n=fewa@174-21-88-43.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 03:44 | |
fewa | SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT | Jun 04 03:49 |
fewa | http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090602/2349035107.shtml bill taxing downoads could be construed to tax free software | Jun 04 03:50 |
fewa | HOLYYY SHITTTTTT | Jun 04 03:50 |
fewa | schestowitz, | Jun 04 03:50 |
fewa | we gotta get an exclusion passed | Jun 04 03:50 |
fewa | look at 302 S 10, 11 and 304 S 5 | Jun 04 03:51 |
fewa | 304 S 5 " (5) "Value of the digital good or digital code used" means the | Jun 04 03:52 |
fewa | purchase price for the digital good or digital code, the use of which | Jun 04 03:52 |
fewa | is taxable under this chapter. If the digital good or digital code is | Jun 04 03:52 |
fewa | acquired other than by purchase, the value of the digital good or | Jun 04 03:52 |
fewa | digital code must be determined as nearly as possible according to the | Jun 04 03:52 |
fewa | retail selling price at place of use of similar digital goods or | Jun 04 03:52 |
fewa | digital codes of like quality and character under rules the department | Jun 04 03:52 |
fewa | may prescribe; | Jun 04 03:52 |
fewa | " | Jun 04 03:52 |
fewa | notice "the value of the digital good or digital code must be determined as nearly as possible according to theretail selling price at place of use of similar digital goods " | Jun 04 03:52 |
DaemonFC | that will be almost impossible to enforce | Jun 04 04:04 |
fewa | still, it needs to be excluded | Jun 04 04:04 |
DaemonFC | and will be overturned about precisely the first time the state does anything with it | Jun 04 04:04 |
fewa | introducing artificial barriers on a basically free commodity (bandwidth) is broke | Jun 04 04:05 |
DaemonFC | basically what happened is that some 90 year old codger in the Washington state legislature who doesn't know the internet from the "series of tubes" thought this was a good way to raise revenue | Jun 04 04:06 |
DaemonFC | :P | Jun 04 04:06 |
*mikankun (n=mikankun@unaffiliated/angelfly) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 04:06 | |
fewa | yeah | Jun 04 04:06 |
fewa | and my rep voted for it | Jun 04 04:06 |
fewa | im like shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii | Jun 04 04:06 |
DaemonFC | besides, their bill not only violates the interstate commerce clause in the US constitution..........it not only sets a vague definition of the value they are trying to tax, it also violates US statute on the moratorium against internet taxation | Jun 04 04:07 |
DaemonFC | so they are probably violating 2 parts of the constitution and one normal law | Jun 04 04:07 |
DaemonFC | that I can think of | Jun 04 04:07 |
DaemonFC | it's an unapportioned tax | Jun 04 04:07 |
DaemonFC | it interferes with interstate commerce | Jun 04 04:08 |
fewa | yeah that was my first reaction | Jun 04 04:08 |
DaemonFC | and it violates the federal ban on internet related taxation | Jun 04 04:08 |
fewa | interstate commerce | Jun 04 04:08 |
DaemonFC | I'd love to be the judge that hears this case | Jun 04 04:08 |
DaemonFC | I'd have my fiunding of fact before the 2nd day of the trial | Jun 04 04:09 |
DaemonFC | :P | Jun 04 04:09 |
DaemonFC | *finding | Jun 04 04:09 |
DaemonFC | I'll bet you they never even try to enforce it | Jun 04 04:12 |
DaemonFC | and even if they do, the EFF will eat them for breakfast | Jun 04 04:12 |
DaemonFC | it would also be almost impossible for an auditor to even tell you what you owed them | Jun 04 04:13 |
fewa | i still better call up my rep and explain what it was that was voted for | Jun 04 04:13 |
DaemonFC | heh | Jun 04 04:15 |
DaemonFC | hope yours is better than mine | Jun 04 04:15 |
DaemonFC | our's makes George W. Bush look like the most liberal politician you've ever seen | Jun 04 04:16 |
DaemonFC | he's also one of the most corrupt representatives in the House | Jun 04 04:16 |
DaemonFC | he goes on golfing outing sponsored by Eli Lilly | Jun 04 04:16 |
DaemonFC | (big drug company) | Jun 04 04:16 |
fewa | My rep is great | Jun 04 04:17 |
DaemonFC | he was on one such outing when he missed a vote reauthorizing the Iraq War | Jun 04 04:17 |
fewa | she just didnt know what she was voting for IMHO | Jun 04 04:17 |
DaemonFC | though I think it's probably best that we just pay him $200,000 a year to golf | Jun 04 04:17 |
DaemonFC | :P | Jun 04 04:17 |
DaemonFC | the more votes he misses, the better off this country is | Jun 04 04:17 |
fewa | im talking about state rep however | Jun 04 04:17 |
fewa | not federal | Jun 04 04:18 |
DaemonFC | oh, well, you'll have better luck with them | Jun 04 04:18 |
fewa | small districts | Jun 04 04:18 |
DaemonFC | I've actually gotten personal replies from some of my state level reps | Jun 04 04:18 |
fewa | tell your fed rep you support this: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/05/new-bill-wants-fiber-conduit-built-into-every-road-project.ars | Jun 04 04:18 |
amarsh04 | .au defence minister resigns | Jun 04 04:18 |
fewa | http://tinyurl.com/hr2428 | Jun 04 04:19 |
DaemonFC | hmmm, development on LAME has basically ground to a halt | Jun 04 04:22 |
DaemonFC | only a few trivial bug fixes since January 2007 | Jun 04 04:23 |
DaemonFC | probably has ran its course and is about as good as MP3 will get | Jun 04 04:24 |
fewa | yeah thats what i was going to say, doesnt mean its abandoned, means its done | Jun 04 04:24 |
DaemonFC | I'm pretty impressed with it | Jun 04 04:26 |
DaemonFC | you can still see a notable difference between their encoder and the latest official MP3 encoder | Jun 04 04:26 |
DaemonFC | especially with variable bitrate | Jun 04 04:27 |
DaemonFC | Winamp is owned by AOL, so they have to use the official encoders and pay licenses for them | Jun 04 04:29 |
DaemonFC | reference encoders tend to be shitty and wasteful with bits, if they even support VBR | Jun 04 04:29 |
DaemonFC | I was playing around with Winamp's AAC encoder, there's no VBR support at all | Jun 04 04:31 |
*amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Jun 04 04:34 | |
*tessier has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | Jun 04 04:41 | |
*tessier (n=treed@unused-105-40-113.ixpres.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 04:41 | |
*amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-46-235.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 04:42 | |
fewa | wow now we have a good moral ground on getting north korea, etc to tell us about their nuclear programs | Jun 04 04:42 |
fewa | http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/06/confidential-list-of-us-nuke-sites-ends-up-on-wikileaks.ars | Jun 04 04:43 |
DaemonFC | We should go into North Korea using unlicensed MP3 files as probable cause | Jun 04 04:43 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 04 04:43 |
DaemonFC | makes as much sense as the RIAA using that excuse for raiding drug houses | Jun 04 04:43 |
DaemonFC | what sucks is that I would be using HE-AAC but no portables support it | Jun 04 04:45 |
fewa | http://www.eff.org/press/archives/2009/06/03 | Jun 04 04:46 |
fewa | theora | Jun 04 04:46 |
DaemonFC | I think it's a conspiracy to upsell you to other portables they sell with more storage | Jun 04 04:46 |
fewa | vwhoops vorbis | Jun 04 04:46 |
DaemonFC | HE-AAC is technically superior to Vorbis at bitrates below 80 kbps | Jun 04 04:46 |
fewa | isnt vorbis really good? its used heavily in video games | Jun 04 04:46 |
DaemonFC | it uses a few tricks that WMA Pro and MP3 Pro tried | Jun 04 04:47 |
DaemonFC | but combines them with AAC encoding | Jun 04 04:47 |
DaemonFC | Vorbis is good, but not at extremely low bitrates | Jun 04 04:47 |
fewa | why do you need low bit trates | Jun 04 04:47 |
fewa | storage is soo cheap | Jun 04 04:47 |
DaemonFC | what happens with HE-AAC and WMA Pro is that they use Spectral Band Replication and a few other tricks | Jun 04 04:47 |
DaemonFC | to preserve quality at very low bitrates | Jun 04 04:48 |
DaemonFC | they're intended for streaming, but you can encode your library to them | Jun 04 04:48 |
DaemonFC | unfortunately neither is really well supported on portable devices | Jun 04 04:48 |
DaemonFC | even the Zune can't play WMA Pro properly | Jun 04 04:48 |
DaemonFC | it can decode the normal WMA part, but not the Spectral Band Replication tag | Jun 04 04:49 |
fewa | mp3 is good enough for most people, therefore it doesnt matter | Jun 04 04:49 |
DaemonFC | MP3 is only really still alive because everything supports it | Jun 04 04:49 |
fewa | and the zune virally infects peoples music, violating the creative commons licence | Jun 04 04:49 |
DaemonFC | you don't have to check to see if a gadget supports it | Jun 04 04:49 |
amarsh04 | the iriver supports ogg | Jun 04 04:49 |
DaemonFC | well, there aren't that many name brand or reasonably priced players that support Vorbis | Jun 04 04:50 |
DaemonFC | I just bought a $55 portable media player (Sandisk) with 8 gigs, the cheapest thing I could find with 8 gigs of storage that played Vorbis was over $100 | Jun 04 04:51 |
DaemonFC | that was a Samsung P2 | Jun 04 04:51 |
DaemonFC | so I'd rather just make MP3 or AAC files than pay twice as much for a player | Jun 04 04:52 |
DaemonFC | I mean it's good that Vorbis is finally getting some name brand recognition, but unless they can find their way into sub-$100 players, they're missing a lot of the market who will continue to use MPEG or Windows Media instead | Jun 04 04:53 |
fewa | i will never use windows media | Jun 04 04:53 |
DaemonFC | I use MPEG formats | Jun 04 04:54 |
fewa | windows media is a piece of shit propritarized by a monopoly abuser | Jun 04 04:54 |
DaemonFC | Windows Media isn't that popular | Jun 04 04:54 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft can't even get most Windows users to touch it | Jun 04 04:54 |
DaemonFC | despite trying to rape you with it | Jun 04 04:54 |
fewa | its abuse of monopoly position | Jun 04 04:55 |
fewa | its an infirier product | Jun 04 04:55 |
DaemonFC | I've encoded to WMA a couple of times jsut to see how it fared next to other codecs | Jun 04 04:55 |
DaemonFC | but I've never been compelled to use it | Jun 04 04:55 |
DaemonFC | It's comparable in quality as of late, but it still doesn't play well with other operating systems | Jun 04 04:56 |
DaemonFC | and the licensing is scary | Jun 04 04:56 |
fewa | the MPEG patents will expire, windows will never open its formats | Jun 04 04:56 |
fewa | *microsoft | Jun 04 04:56 |
DaemonFC | technically the Windows Media patents will expire | Jun 04 04:56 |
DaemonFC | right? | Jun 04 04:56 |
fewa | but the specs arnt open i believe | Jun 04 04:57 |
DaemonFC | they've been reverse engineered | Jun 04 04:57 |
fewa | thought they just sold binaries | Jun 04 04:57 |
DaemonFC | you can encode to WMA on Linux | Jun 04 04:57 |
DaemonFC | don't know why you would | Jun 04 04:57 |
DaemonFC | but you can | Jun 04 04:57 |
fewa | exactly | Jun 04 04:57 |
DaemonFC | the reverse engineering was mainly to play back files that already existed | Jun 04 04:57 |
DaemonFC | or transcode them | Jun 04 04:58 |
DaemonFC | you know what Microsoft says, they don't follow standards, they make them | Jun 04 04:59 |
DaemonFC | AAC and HE-AAC give WMA a beating | Jun 04 04:59 |
fewa | MPEG are standards, and they are developed because of patents | Jun 04 05:00 |
fewa | if the patent's duration was a little shorter the model could work | Jun 04 05:01 |
DaemonFC | I've noticed that FAAC at 100% Quality will put out files that are about 1/3rd smaller than Standard Lame MP3 | Jun 04 05:01 |
DaemonFC | I'll probably encode to AAC with FAAC for this device | Jun 04 05:01 |
DaemonFC | the MPEG group isn't hostile twoards non-commercial encoders | Jun 04 05:02 |
fewa | exactly | Jun 04 05:02 |
DaemonFC | something tells me Microsoft would sue anyone that tried to market a WMA encoder | Jun 04 05:02 |
DaemonFC | it's not in MPEG's interest to start suing people | Jun 04 05:02 |
DaemonFC | their goal is to be popular and work everywhere | Jun 04 05:03 |
fewa | they just was to be the best formats, and the standard formats | Jun 04 05:03 |
*twitter (i=willhill@97-113-235-47.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 05:03 | |
DaemonFC | MPEG formats are generally pretty good | Jun 04 05:04 |
fewa | MPEG's business strategy is a working model | Jun 04 05:04 |
DaemonFC | you can transcode a Blu Ray movie into MPEG 4 and get it to fit on a standard single layer DVD | Jun 04 05:04 |
DaemonFC | with no reall loss in quality | Jun 04 05:04 |
fewa | yep | Jun 04 05:04 |
lol | Jun 04 05:04 | |
fewa | all the ones on the internet are like that | Jun 04 05:04 |
fewa | but it takes a more expensive processor, so thats why blu-ray is like it is | Jun 04 05:05 |
I wonder when Google will go theora | Jun 04 05:05 | |
DaemonFC | Microsoft was backing HD-DVD because it used their codec | Jun 04 05:05 |
DaemonFC | VC-1 | Jun 04 05:05 |
DaemonFC | if HD-DVD took off, Microsoft would get a per disc royalty | Jun 04 05:05 |
fewa | toshiba is a abuser like microsoft | Jun 04 05:05 |
fewa | thats why blu-ray won | Jun 04 05:05 |
DaemonFC | but it didn't :) | Jun 04 05:05 |
neonfloss | bluray will only last a short time | Jun 04 05:06 |
DaemonFC | no, Blu Ray won because porn and video games were on it | Jun 04 05:06 |
neonfloss | ssd ftw | Jun 04 05:06 |
blue ray has DRM, you don't want it | Jun 04 05:06 | |
fewa | i dont use it | Jun 04 05:06 |
fewa | optic media is obsolete | Jun 04 05:06 |
DaemonFC | I just use DVD | Jun 04 05:06 |
DaemonFC | still looks fine to me | Jun 04 05:06 |
fewa | hard drives and flash is now cheaper, and more reliable, and requires no absurd burn/read/mastering and manual loading | Jun 04 05:07 |
DaemonFC | well, Sony could have used a standard DVD and just switched to MPEG-4 | Jun 04 05:08 |
DaemonFC | but they want the files to be massive and unwieldy | Jun 04 05:08 |
fewa | like DivX on CDs | Jun 04 05:08 |
DaemonFC | DivX isn't all that great | Jun 04 05:08 |
DaemonFC | H.264 is far better | Jun 04 05:08 |
fewa | ok H.264 on CDs | Jun 04 05:09 |
fewa | at DVD quality | Jun 04 05:09 |
DaemonFC | yeah, codecs have gotten a lot better | Jun 04 05:09 |
DaemonFC | so it makes no sense that Sony would use MPEG-2 | Jun 04 05:09 |
BN is DDoSed? | Jun 04 05:09 | |
DaemonFC | unless they wanted large files | Jun 04 05:09 |
fewa | DTV uses MPEG-2 | Jun 04 05:09 |
DaemonFC | again, ridiculous | Jun 04 05:10 |
fewa | and the government mandated a patented system | Jun 04 05:10 |
fewa | bullshit | Jun 04 05:10 |
DaemonFC | they could have the same quality in 1/10th the bandwidth | Jun 04 05:10 |
DaemonFC | with MPEG-4 | Jun 04 05:10 |
fewa | should have had a system which could use any codec | Jun 04 05:10 |
DaemonFC | Theora really isn't mature | Jun 04 05:11 |
fewa | and have a upgrade path | Jun 04 05:11 |
DaemonFC | still has a few kinks | Jun 04 05:11 |
DaemonFC | the whole idea of better codecs is to make small files without compromising quality | Jun 04 05:12 |
DaemonFC | so why the hell are they using 20 year old codecs? | Jun 04 05:12 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 04 05:12 |
looks like IRC is DDoS'd too. | Jun 04 05:13 | |
DaemonFC | fewa: I back up my songs to DVD, I never actually burn audio CDs | Jun 04 05:13 |
Beam me up, there's nothing useful here. | Jun 04 05:13 | |
*twitter (i=willhill@97-113-235-47.tukw.qwest.net) has left #boycottnovell | Jun 04 05:13 | |
DaemonFC | AAC can give you pretty much CD quality with files that average 5-6 megs | Jun 04 05:14 |
DaemonFC | MP3 needs more like 9-10 to get the same perceived quality | Jun 04 05:14 |
DaemonFC | it stands to reason that I'd rather buy a player that costs half as much than use a codec that needs twice the storage | Jun 04 05:15 |
fewa | but media is sooo cheap that for storage media it doesnt matter | Jun 04 05:15 |
fewa | the only place where good codecs are important is broadcast media | Jun 04 05:15 |
fewa | and bandwidth over the net | Jun 04 05:15 |
*tessier has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jun 04 05:16 | |
neonfloss | and portable media | Jun 04 05:16 |
fewa | which is why MPEG2 for DTV was reallt stupid | Jun 04 05:16 |
fewa | but portable players that can support modern codecs have to have more processing power and use more watts | Jun 04 05:16 |
fewa | so there has to be balance | Jun 04 05:16 |
DaemonFC | fewa: Not true | Jun 04 05:17 |
DaemonFC | I buy refurb/open box stuff mainly | Jun 04 05:18 |
fewa | ewll at least in video | Jun 04 05:18 |
fewa | mo comp was left out of H.263, and DivX/XviD because of its high cpu usage | Jun 04 05:18 |
DaemonFC | plus the earbuds on those things is hardly a hi fidelity sound system | Jun 04 05:18 |
DaemonFC | you can cram a lot of songs into 8 gigs | Jun 04 05:19 |
DaemonFC | with a portable, you want a "best bang for the buck" codec | Jun 04 05:19 |
DaemonFC | which is why I wish they supported HE-AAC | Jun 04 05:21 |
DaemonFC | 48k bitrate would suddenly be reasonable | Jun 04 05:21 |
DaemonFC | you could fit an entire CD into about 12-14 megs | Jun 04 05:21 |
DaemonFC | I know it sounds odd, but HE-AAC at 64k is about like a 128k MP3 | Jun 04 05:23 |
DaemonFC | perhaps even better | Jun 04 05:23 |
DaemonFC | just that the files can't be read by a standard decoder | Jun 04 05:24 |
*oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 05:24 | |
fewa | wow, thats nice | Jun 04 05:25 |
fewa | VoIP codecs can be that small too | Jun 04 05:25 |
oiaohm | Ok what did I just miss | Jun 04 05:25 |
*Omar87 (n=omar@94.249.42.107.go.com.jo) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 05:29 | |
Omar87 | Hi all | Jun 04 05:29 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: Just me babbling on about codecs | Jun 04 05:54 |
DaemonFC | I decided to go with M4A | Jun 04 05:54 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: Should a player that says it supports AAC support the M4A container too? | Jun 04 05:57 |
oiaohm | I would need my cross reference tables on features on that DaemonFC | Jun 04 05:58 |
DaemonFC | AAC is just a container | Jun 04 05:59 |
DaemonFC | MPEG-4 audio is one of the things it can hold | Jun 04 05:59 |
oiaohm | I would guess so but you never can be sure. | Jun 04 06:01 |
DaemonFC | they probably just refer to M4A as AAC because that's how Apple does | Jun 04 06:02 |
DaemonFC | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16855125118 | Jun 04 06:02 |
DaemonFC | that's the player I went with | Jun 04 06:03 |
DaemonFC | this is probably hy VBR is so much more effective on MPEG-4 audio than MP3 | Jun 04 06:10 |
DaemonFC | shorter frames and arbitrary bitrate support | Jun 04 06:10 |
DaemonFC | http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000470.html | Jun 04 06:15 |
fewa | i need a fast usb flash drive | Jun 04 06:31 |
fewa | this one is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo slow | Jun 04 06:31 |
*yuhong (n=chatzill@pool-96-240-114-114.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 06:37 | |
yuhong | I think MS's astroturfing is a good example of how PR 2.0 and social media can be abused. | Jun 04 06:37 |
*yuhong has quit (Client Quit) | Jun 04 06:39 | |
*tessier (n=treed@unused-105-40-113.ixpres.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 06:47 | |
DaemonFC | hmmm, FAAC seems slightly better than Vorbis, it's just not very well documented | Jun 04 06:47 |
DaemonFC | it took me a while to find out exactly what I was doing with it | Jun 04 06:48 |
DaemonFC | FAAC seems to use a psychoaccoustic analyzer based on gsycho (at least it behaves about the same) only thanks to AAC being far better than MP3, it can change the bitrate much more often and to any value it likes | Jun 04 06:49 |
DaemonFC | so while MP3 has a range of values between 32-320k, AAC can do 2-infinity | Jun 04 06:50 |
DaemonFC | in increments of 1 | Jun 04 06:50 |
DaemonFC | (very cool | Jun 04 06:50 |
DaemonFC | so VBR settings are much more fluid, and it can allocate bits to precisely what needs them the most | Jun 04 06:51 |
DaemonFC | trounces MP3 | Jun 04 06:51 |
tessier | How does it compare with FLAC? | Jun 04 06:52 |
DaemonFC | FLAC is lossless, AAC/M4A is lossy | Jun 04 06:52 |
DaemonFC | you should be asking how it compares to other lossy codecs | Jun 04 06:52 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 04 06:52 |
tessier | Right but how does the sound quality for the file size compare? | Jun 04 06:52 |
DaemonFC | FAAC uses a quality settings slider defaulting at 100% and going to 500% | Jun 04 06:53 |
tessier | Given how huge disks are and that I haven't run out of storage in years I think bandwidth is the only reason anyone bothers with lossy compression anymore | Jun 04 06:53 |
tessier | I guess there is still a bit of a storage issue on an ipod but even that is pretty huge. | Jun 04 06:53 |
tessier | Only the flash based ones. | Jun 04 06:54 |
DaemonFC | my example file of Fine Again by Seether was 30.9 megs as FLAC | Jun 04 06:54 |
DaemonFC | FAAC at 500% it's 9.11 megs | Jun 04 06:54 |
DaemonFC | and I can't tell a difference | Jun 04 06:54 |
DaemonFC | depending on where you're at in the file, it's between 14k and 611k | Jun 04 06:54 |
DaemonFC | as AAC | Jun 04 06:54 |
tessier | Does FAAC have any patent encumbrences or anything? | Jun 04 06:54 |
DaemonFC | AAC does | Jun 04 06:55 |
DaemonFC | it's from the same people that did MP3 | Jun 04 06:55 |
DaemonFC | so FAAC is to AAC as LAME is to MP3 | Jun 04 06:55 |
tessier | So FAAC does not? | Jun 04 06:55 |
DaemonFC | FAAC is free software that "describes" an encoder ;) | Jun 04 06:55 |
DaemonFC | and distributed as source | Jun 04 06:55 |
*Omar87 (n=omar@94.249.42.107.go.com.jo) has left #boycottnovell | Jun 04 06:55 | |
DaemonFC | nothing that they would bother suing over | Jun 04 06:56 |
DaemonFC | unless you started selling something that contained FAAC in it | Jun 04 06:56 |
DaemonFC | same deal as LAME | Jun 04 06:56 |
DaemonFC | tessier: If you use FAAC in Linux as part of Gstreamer, it's going to spit out corrupt files | Jun 04 06:57 |
DaemonFC | because it defailts to MAIN instead of Low Complexity AAC | Jun 04 06:58 |
DaemonFC | I have no idea how to change it because I didn't bother researching why it was doing that much | Jun 04 06:58 |
DaemonFC | a number of other people filed bug reports in Ubuntu about that and never got anywhere | Jun 04 06:58 |
DaemonFC | it's some kind of encoder glitch if you try to use that encoding style (which pretty much everything uses Low Complexity anyway) | Jun 04 06:59 |
DaemonFC | so I'm not entirely sure why they defailt to MAIN | Jun 04 06:59 |
DaemonFC | the only reason I figured that out is because BonkEnc on Windows lets you select encoder modules and I have to push all the buttons :) | Jun 04 07:00 |
DaemonFC | no encoding software that I've seen uses anything but LC/AAC, much less lets you select anything else | Jun 04 07:01 |
DaemonFC | probably some assmonkeys in GNOME that decided that there encoding software won't have a way to let you choose LC | Jun 04 07:02 |
DaemonFC | or hidden in a .config file somwhere | Jun 04 07:02 |
DaemonFC | pfft :P | Jun 04 07:02 |
DaemonFC | *their | Jun 04 07:02 |
DaemonFC | or you could probably pass along the proper command to the encoder by hand editing the encoder profile | Jun 04 07:05 |
DaemonFC | fun | Jun 04 07:05 |
DaemonFC | tessier: I definitely can't tell VBR AAC from the FLAC at around 200% on the FAAC quality scale | Jun 04 07:15 |
DaemonFC | at this point the AAC is 6.58 megs to the FLAC's 30.9 megs | Jun 04 07:16 |
DaemonFC | that's pretty decent since the VBR MP3 has to be 9.63 megs for transparency | Jun 04 07:17 |
fewa | how is FLAC so good? | Jun 04 07:18 |
DaemonFC | so the VBR MP3 has to be 46% bigger to achieve transparency of VBR AAC | Jun 04 07:18 |
DaemonFC | FLAC is just raw PCM audio with file compression | Jun 04 07:18 |
DaemonFC | it's an exact copy of the CD audio pretty much | Jun 04 07:18 |
fewa | but thats really good when comparing lossy to lossless | Jun 04 07:19 |
fewa | you could never do that with video | Jun 04 07:19 |
DaemonFC | actually they do | Jun 04 07:19 |
DaemonFC | raw video is insurmountably huge | Jun 04 07:19 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 04 07:19 |
fewa | thats what im saying | Jun 04 07:19 |
fewa | either the compression of FLAC is amazing or the lossy compression sucks | Jun 04 07:20 |
DaemonFC | FLAC generally is about 25-50% smaller than WAV (raw PCM) | Jun 04 07:20 |
fewa | to be only 3x lossy | Jun 04 07:20 |
DaemonFC | so AAC achieves transparency at roughly 10% the file size of the CD data stream | Jun 04 07:20 |
DaemonFC | which is a neat trick | Jun 04 07:20 |
fewa | FLAC is not just regular compression, however, its especially designed for audio | Jun 04 07:21 |
DaemonFC | true | Jun 04 07:21 |
fewa | like LZMA/XZ has special filters for code calling design | Jun 04 07:21 |
DaemonFC | I've also tried HE-AAC | Jun 04 07:21 |
fewa | that can give compiled code an extra 10% compression | Jun 04 07:21 |
DaemonFC | you can get transparency at roughly 5% the file size of WAV | Jun 04 07:22 |
fewa | on certain architectures | Jun 04 07:22 |
DaemonFC | I'm gonna download one of Microsoft's dare to compare clips | Jun 04 07:22 |
DaemonFC | lmao | Jun 04 07:22 |
DaemonFC | see what I can do to the WAV file they provide | Jun 04 07:22 |
DaemonFC | unfortunately the most complicated file they have is a Travis Tritt song | Jun 04 07:27 |
MinceR | http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs018.snc1/4232_89696891871_504366871_2042417_4595941_n.jpg | Jun 04 07:35 |
DaemonFC | hmm, there's something I didn't notice | Jun 04 07:37 |
DaemonFC | FAAC supports temporal noise shaping | Jun 04 07:38 |
*schestowitz done watching.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gwV8etx4sI&feature=related | Jun 04 07:41 | |
neonfloss | hows life schestowitz ? | Jun 04 07:43 |
schestowitz | Quite all right | Jun 04 07:45 |
schestowitz | Been too hot here recently. | Jun 04 07:45 |
neonfloss | uk? | Jun 04 07:45 |
kentma | yeah, very hot here. | Jun 04 07:46 |
neonfloss | wow ive been looking for someone from uk all day :P | Jun 04 07:47 |
kentma | it's very humid here, so when it's hot, it's hot and humid, which is, well, a bit oppressive... | Jun 04 07:47 |
*kentma waves from uk | Jun 04 07:47 | |
neonfloss | heh. its pretty embarrassing but I want somene to help me sign up for spotify | Jun 04 07:47 |
neonfloss | not humid here | Jun 04 07:48 |
neonfloss | perfect weather | Jun 04 07:48 |
kentma | where are you? | Jun 04 07:48 |
kentma | what is spotify, btw? | Jun 04 07:48 |
neonfloss | canada | Jun 04 07:48 |
neonfloss | spotify is this music streaming thing | Jun 04 07:48 |
kentma | ah, canada, yes. I go there quite a lot. Where abouts are you? | Jun 04 07:49 |
neonfloss | currently in toronto | Jun 04 07:49 |
neonfloss | I can give you an free version invite of spotify if you want | Jun 04 07:49 |
kentma | I'm probably the wrong age group :-) | Jun 04 07:49 |
neonfloss | how old are you? | Jun 04 07:49 |
kentma | 40-something ish. | Jun 04 07:50 |
kentma | hang on | Jun 04 07:50 |
neonfloss | sure | Jun 04 07:50 |
kentma | I think 45 | Jun 04 07:50 |
neonfloss | lulz | Jun 04 07:50 |
neonfloss | dont know | Jun 04 07:50 |
kentma | I'm never very sure - I don't really track birthdays and the like. | Jun 04 07:50 |
neonfloss | same here | Jun 04 07:50 |
neonfloss | and im much younger | Jun 04 07:50 |
neonfloss | im just not used to others not konwing | Jun 04 07:51 |
neonfloss | :P | Jun 04 07:51 |
kentma | I like Toronto, btw. Have a lot of family there. My sister lives near Georgetown; was lecturing in Guelph for a while... industrial psych! | Jun 04 07:51 |
neonfloss | :) | Jun 04 07:52 |
kentma | I'll probably be in Guelph again next xmas, hopefully, anyway. | Jun 04 07:53 |
kentma | I read recently that Toronto was considering doing air-con using the lake - did that take off, do you know? | Jun 04 07:53 |
neonfloss | prob not I think | Jun 04 07:54 |
neonfloss | we are an apathetic bunch | Jun 04 07:54 |
kentma | :-) | Jun 04 07:54 |
neonfloss | not good | Jun 04 07:55 |
schestowitz | The MAFIAA takes it propaganda to more schools: http://www.itnews.com.au/News/104627,aussie-anti-piracy-battle-moves-into-schools.aspx | Jun 04 08:04 |
fewa | schestowitz, the eff released a more balanced curriculum | Jun 04 08:05 |
schestowitz | Yeah | Jun 04 08:05 |
schestowitz | But the schools is owned by lobbies | Jun 04 08:05 |
schestowitz | They decide what's important for the children | Jun 04 08:05 |
fewa | http://www.teachingcopyright.org/ | Jun 04 08:05 |
schestowitz | Under the guise of terms like "their future careers" | Jun 04 08:05 |
fewa | yeah that bs | Jun 04 08:06 |
schestowitz | Tony La Russa suing Twitter for trademark infringement < http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/bird-land/bird-land/2009/06/tony-la-russa-suing-twitter-for-trademark-infringement/ > | Jun 04 08:08 |
fewa | they have already lost | Jun 04 08:09 |
schestowitz | This should make you think of Microsoft and SCO: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/03/business/03litigate.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all | Jun 04 08:09 |
fewa | microsoft is going to be the next SCO | Jun 04 08:10 |
schestowitz | It already is | Jun 04 08:10 |
schestowitz | Want To Know How Not To Encourage Innovation? Double Taxes On Technology < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090531/2316335073.shtml > | Jun 04 08:10 |
schestowitz | fewa: same characteristsic | Jun 04 08:10 |
schestowitz | fewa: same characteristics | Jun 04 08:10 |
schestowitz | Declining business (down 32% last quarter) | Jun 04 08:11 |
schestowitz | Lawsuit against competition. | Jun 04 08:11 |
schestowitz | Attempts to embrace (SCOSource, CodePlex) | Jun 04 08:11 |
schestowitz | Failing to embrace, then getting angrier) | Jun 04 08:11 |
schestowitz | WIndows Server sales down 29%!! | Jun 04 08:11 |
fewa | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Office_2007#Attempt_to_patent_user_interface_elements | Jun 04 08:12 |
schestowitz | This is why Digg is kaput: http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-digg-to-let-users-digg-ads/ (Digg’s New Advertising Platform; Marketers Pay Based On Diggs) | Jun 04 08:13 |
fewa | digg has been kaput for a long time | Jun 04 08:14 |
DaemonFC | What's funny about that is Microsoft destroyed their own legal standing | Jun 04 08:14 |
schestowitz | Accusation of collusion in hiring process (Apple, MS, Google): http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-justice-department-looks-into-tech-industry-hiring/ | Jun 04 08:14 |
DaemonFC | defending themselves against Apple | Jun 04 08:14 |
DaemonFC | back in the 90's | Jun 04 08:14 |
DaemonFC | when Apple sued them for copying the Mac | Jun 04 08:15 |
fewa | DaemonFC, interesting point | Jun 04 08:15 |
fewa | look and feel lawsuit | Jun 04 08:15 |
DaemonFC | yes | Jun 04 08:15 |
fewa | thats why they have to patent these things | Jun 04 08:15 |
fewa | which is absurd | Jun 04 08:15 |
fewa | http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/06/high-tech-hiring-under-investigation-by-the-doj.ars | Jun 04 08:17 |
fewa | doesnt seem like anti-trust at all | Jun 04 08:17 |
fewa | http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/06/monticello-appeals-court-win.ars | Jun 04 08:20 |
fewa | more municipalities need to do this | Jun 04 08:21 |
schestowitz | What Red Hat and Novell Have in Common and What They Do Not < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/04/red-hat-and-novell-commonalities/ > | Jun 04 08:26 |
schestowitz | I had ITWire cover the Mono thing.. | Jun 04 08:28 |
schestowitz | This in my inbox this morning :-) http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25469/1090/ | Jun 04 08:28 |
schestowitz | Red Hat's shunning of Mono starts getting a lot of attention. | Jun 04 08:28 |
*vyrgozunqk (i=5bd36da7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-52221f5816a9773e) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 08:32 | |
schestowitz | Linux.com -- weird stuff... I believe Gnote is also slated for inclusion by default in Debian and Ubuntu. | Jun 04 08:33 |
schestowitz | I went looking for it a couple of days ago to replace Tomboy on my current system. I haven't yet had a chance to install it and remove Tomboy. | Jun 04 08:33 |
schestowitz | Oops. This one I meant to paste: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25471/1143/ | Jun 04 08:33 |
oiaohm | schestowitz: think about it when has the Linux foundation been weird | Jun 04 08:35 |
*vyrgozunqk has quit (Client Quit) | Jun 04 08:36 | |
*magentar (n=magentar@213-10.206-83.static-ip.oleane.fr) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 08:39 | |
DaemonFC | well, Red Hat moving away from it is a good thing | Jun 04 08:40 |
DaemonFC | it removes some of Mono's appearance of legitimacy in the corporate world | Jun 04 08:41 |
oiaohm | Even worse for legitimacy it is looking like opensuse is turning on it as well. | Jun 04 08:41 |
oiaohm | mono was really about exploiting the open source world. Could see the mips and arm thing comming. They required applications to do the move. | Jun 04 08:42 |
kentma | mono is just bad. | Jun 04 08:42 |
DaemonFC | I don't think Mips will ever be mainstream | Jun 04 08:44 |
DaemonFC | I just don't | Jun 04 08:44 |
oiaohm | Mono supporters annoy me. They try to sell the idea that disk size is important. Memory usage more important than disk. And even then they don't do correct usage maths. | Jun 04 08:44 |
DaemonFC | and that's not just because of Windows | Jun 04 08:44 |
oiaohm | mips already has large numbers of users in china. | Jun 04 08:45 |
DaemonFC | that's China | Jun 04 08:45 |
oiaohm | With platform support you have to cover global DaemonFC | Jun 04 08:45 |
oiaohm | You cannot just disreguard it just because its china. | Jun 04 08:45 |
DaemonFC | well, Linux is fairly portable | Jun 04 08:46 |
DaemonFC | but not all of the applications can go with it | Jun 04 08:46 |
DaemonFC | usually because you need x86 to run Wine or proprietary software like Flash | Jun 04 08:46 |
schestowitz | “I Believe Gnote is Also Slated for Inclusion by Default in Debian and Ubuntu” < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/04/mono-not-by-default/ > | Jun 04 08:46 |
oiaohm | That is the thing DaemonFC. Flash is avaible for arm and mips. | Jun 04 08:47 |
oiaohm | So that leaves running windows binaries. | Jun 04 08:47 |
DaemonFC | real flash or the reverse engineered implementations that *may* render Youtube videos and *only* cost 90% of a CPU core? | Jun 04 08:47 |
oiaohm | Real flash from adobe DaemonFC | Jun 04 08:48 |
oiaohm | You can buy it if you are a device builder. | Jun 04 08:48 |
oiaohm | Just like you can get realaudio for both as well | Jun 04 08:48 |
oiaohm | And its less than paying licences to MS. | Jun 04 08:48 |
oiaohm | The game of independance is really down to windows applications only DaemonFC | Jun 04 08:49 |
DaemonFC | Who cares about Real Audio? | Jun 04 08:50 |
DaemonFC | are they even still in business? | Jun 04 08:50 |
DaemonFC | lmao | Jun 04 08:50 |
oiaohm | Realaudio provides basically all the default codecs windows provides to everyone else DaemonFC | Jun 04 08:50 |
schestowitz | YouTube Releases YouTube XL < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/06/03/youtube-releases-youtube-xl > | Jun 04 08:50 |
*schestowitz watched like 10k videos in YouTube | Jun 04 08:51 | |
DaemonFC | Real Networks are a bunch of greedy cocks that almost made it big til they started hosing peoples computers with spyware | Jun 04 08:51 |
DaemonFC | fuck them | Jun 04 08:51 |
oiaohm | Including wma with drm support DaemonFC | Jun 04 08:51 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 04 08:51 |
DaemonFC | and fuck WMA with or without DRM support | Jun 04 08:52 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 04 08:52 |
DaemonFC | if you're stupid enough to buy it you deserve whatever you get | Jun 04 08:53 |
schestowitz | We've just made FP of LinuxToday | Jun 04 08:53 |
oiaohm | Some people have collections. At least you can back up the keys under Linux DaemonFC. | Jun 04 08:53 |
schestowitz | I don't like RN | Jun 04 08:53 |
schestowitz | They play with patent pools and stuff | Jun 04 08:54 |
schestowitz | Also makers of spyware | Jun 04 08:54 |
schestowitz | Among the first | Jun 04 08:54 |
DaemonFC | I would _never_ buy a music file with DRM | Jun 04 08:54 |
schestowitz | RMS attributes it to them | Jun 04 08:54 |
DaemonFC | that's the only way to get them to stop doing it | Jun 04 08:54 |
schestowitz | WM* is part of their settlement IIRC | Jun 04 08:54 |
schestowitz | MS tried to kill them like Netscape | Jun 04 08:54 |
schestowitz | Very ugly exhibits | Jun 04 08:54 |
DaemonFC | apparently enough people feel like I do | Jun 04 08:54 |
DaemonFC | which is why all these stores are selling genuine MP3s | Jun 04 08:55 |
oiaohm | Just realaudio turned out to have nastier patents than MS. | Jun 04 08:55 |
DaemonFC | instead of DRM'd whatever | Jun 04 08:55 |
oiaohm | So real basically uses MS patents without charge and MS pays them. | Jun 04 08:55 |
schestowitz | http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-06-03-010-35-OP-MS-0001 | Jun 04 08:56 |
schestowitz | Do you reckon MS chosen a recursive acronym on purpose? | Jun 04 08:56 |
schestowitz | BING is Not Google | Jun 04 08:56 |
kentma | yes, they're trying to get all unixy | Jun 04 08:56 |
schestowitz | Heh. | Jun 04 08:56 |
schestowitz | Project MING comes to mind | Jun 04 08:57 |
schestowitz | Microsoft is Not Google | Jun 04 08:57 |
schestowitz | Microsoft is Not Good | Jun 04 08:57 |
schestowitz | Microsoft is Not Innovative (MINI) | Jun 04 08:57 |
ushimitsudoki | howdy | Jun 04 08:57 |
schestowitz | But it needs the name of a project in M | Jun 04 08:58 |
schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: hey | Jun 04 08:58 |
schestowitz | Good news re: Mono | Jun 04 08:58 |
schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/04/mono-not-by-default/ | Jun 04 08:58 |
*ushimitsudoki is reading | Jun 04 08:58 | |
schestowitz | Why Linux is Better than Mac (or, how I learned to stop worrying and love apt-get and debuild) < http://www.scottgrizzard.com/blog/2009/05/29/why-linux-is-better-than-mac-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-apt-get-and-debuild/ > | Jun 04 08:59 |
schestowitz | "However, if you know what you are doing, Macs Stink! This is really true if you are into open source software, because it is almost impossible to compile someone else’s code on a Mac, even if they wrote it for Mac." | Jun 04 08:59 |
schestowitz | Already hounded by the Mac fanbois | Jun 04 08:59 |
DaemonFC | Which is why I've always tended to use Windows, I never could really stand the Mac | Jun 04 08:59 |
*jbartosik (n=joszi@aatm15.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 08:59 | |
DaemonFC | I've had to use them before | Jun 04 09:00 |
DaemonFC | never been impressed | Jun 04 09:00 |
DaemonFC | I mean if I won a Mac in a contest I'd take it cause it's still a PC that can boot Vista right? | Jun 04 09:00 |
ushimitsudoki | Hmmm ... I would love to see it, but I don't expect Ubuntu to replace Tomboy with Gnote. Tomboy is an official part of Gnome (to their eternal shame), and the pro-mono contingent is pretty strong in Ubuntuland. It's going to be a sticky thing keeping Banshee out, much less "breaking" the official Gnome desktop | Jun 04 09:00 |
DaemonFC | (What to say to piss a Mac fanboi off) | Jun 04 09:00 |
schestowitz | The Oggs and <video> are catching on: http://blog.dailymotion.com/2009/05/27/watch-videowithout-flash/ Excellent! | Jun 04 09:00 |
schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: yes, Ubuntu would be hard | Jun 04 09:01 |
schestowitz | Debian not as hard | Jun 04 09:01 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: I still couldn't find a reasonably good player that wasn't outragously overpriced that could play Vorbis | Jun 04 09:01 |
schestowitz | iRiver (??) did this years ago | Jun 04 09:02 |
DaemonFC | just the extremely cheap and the expensive ones with touchscreens and other doodads I don't care about | Jun 04 09:02 |
schestowitz | Creative IIRC | Jun 04 09:02 |
schestowitz | But that's ancient | Jun 04 09:02 |
schestowitz | I had RealPlayer for my Palm in 2004 | Jun 04 09:02 |
schestowitz | Don't know if it supported Ogg... | Jun 04 09:02 |
oiaohm | Current day realplayer does. 2004 1 I think not. | Jun 04 09:03 |
DaemonFC | tessier: http://www.mp3-tech.org/aac.html | Jun 04 09:04 |
DaemonFC | AAC is part of the MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 specification | Jun 04 09:05 |
DaemonFC | you should use the MPEG-4 version though | Jun 04 09:05 |
DaemonFC | as it has some nice things the MPEG-2 AAC encoder doesn't | Jun 04 09:05 |
fewa | hmm they are doing zelous user-agent detection | Jun 04 09:07 |
fewa | instead of just using the html5 fallback | Jun 04 09:07 |
DaemonFC | I'm pretty impressed with AAC | Jun 04 09:07 |
oiaohm | We could see the fall of flash if enough sites go the html5/javascript path. | Jun 04 09:08 |
fewa | it would still be useful for games | Jun 04 09:08 |
fewa | but yeah for video i welcome its obsolesence | Jun 04 09:09 |
DaemonFC | if most video sites ever go HTML5 for multimedia, I'll uninstall flash | Jun 04 09:09 |
DaemonFC | but you know this won't happen til Internet Explorer supports it | Jun 04 09:09 |
fewa | just turn it off in tools-->add-ons-->extentions | Jun 04 09:09 |
oiaohm | With canvas javascript will be able to do games as well. | Jun 04 09:09 |
fewa | oiaohm, yes, but there is a large base of flash games | Jun 04 09:10 |
DaemonFC | realistically we're looking at around 2015 before half the web users use something besides IE | Jun 04 09:10 |
fewa | nahh | Jun 04 09:10 |
oiaohm | DaemonFC: Who says the old if not running firefox you cannot enter site will not return on IE users | Jun 04 09:10 |
fewa | wave and other things will force people to upgrade | Jun 04 09:10 |
fewa | just like how they instaled flash to get video | Jun 04 09:10 |
oiaohm | The new browser war could start. | Jun 04 09:10 |
oiaohm | Reason sites providing flash content risk having to pay adobe. | Jun 04 09:11 |
DaemonFC | well, couldn't you retrofit that ability onto IE with some kind of add-in? | Jun 04 09:11 |
oiaohm | Nop DaemonFC | Jun 04 09:11 |
oiaohm | The engine has to process the tag. | Jun 04 09:11 |
oiaohm | Going html5 is cheeper for sites providing movie content. | Jun 04 09:12 |
oiaohm | Users will just have to move with the times. | Jun 04 09:12 |
schestowitz | http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=10209 | Jun 04 09:12 |
schestowitz | troll | Jun 04 09:12 |
oiaohm | Either MS catchs up or gets locked out. | Jun 04 09:12 |
fewa | oiaohm, it would be possible with complicated javascript includes, but it wouldnt be worth it | Jun 04 09:12 |
oiaohm | When the user can install firefox or chrome why would you bother making site complex. | Jun 04 09:13 |
fewa | exactly | Jun 04 09:13 |
fewa | it would be like sun ODF | Jun 04 09:13 |
fewa | they would just embed firefox in IE | Jun 04 09:13 |
fewa | :P | Jun 04 09:14 |
oiaohm | Also remember 90 percent of web developers out there hate IE extreamly DaemonFC | Jun 04 09:14 |
fewa | or webkit | Jun 04 09:14 |
oiaohm | This give them there chance to do what they have always wanted todo. | Jun 04 09:14 |
fewa | IE will die | Jun 04 09:14 |
oiaohm | Lock the IE users out. | Jun 04 09:14 |
DaemonFC | I don't care about IE dying or whatever | Jun 04 09:14 |
DaemonFC | I'd much rather see Microsoft jsut turn it into a decent browser | Jun 04 09:15 |
fewa | they weere talking about adopting webkit | Jun 04 09:15 |
fewa | but they use to attack webkit | Jun 04 09:15 |
DaemonFC | IE 7 and 8 were both just attempts to copy Firefox | Jun 04 09:15 |
fewa | they have burned alot of bridges | Jun 04 09:15 |
DaemonFC | IE 8 does do one neat thing I wish Firefox did | Jun 04 09:15 |
DaemonFC | tab grouping/color coding | Jun 04 09:15 |
DaemonFC | that is kind of neat | Jun 04 09:16 |
fewa | there are addons that bring that to firefox | Jun 04 09:16 |
oiaohm | Just like multi lines of tabs I use in firefox. | Jun 04 09:16 |
fewa | the daily motion <video> works, but youtube.com/html5 doesnt | Jun 04 09:17 |
fewa | i think youtube is doing MPEG in their <video> | Jun 04 09:17 |
fewa | which safari and chrome will support | Jun 04 09:17 |
schestowitz | tessier: update on OpenMono (seems promising enough): http://lwn.net/Articles/335878/ | Jun 04 09:20 |
fewa | *openmoko | Jun 04 09:21 |
fewa | little slip there | Jun 04 09:21 |
schestowitz | Busting the whole Linux 'usability' myths: < http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10things/?p=774 > (10 ways the Linux desktop improves the user experience) | Jun 04 09:23 |
fewa | schestowitz, microsoft admited linux was usable 10 years ago in the haloween papers | Jun 04 09:23 |
fewa | "Most of the primary apps that people require when they move to Linux are already available for free. This includes web servers, POP clients, mail servers, text editors, etc " | Jun 04 09:24 |
fewa | "An advanced Win32 GUI user would have a short learning cycle to become productive [under Linux]. " | Jun 04 09:24 |
schestowitz | Hehe. | Jun 04 09:25 |
fewa | http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/halloween2.html | Jun 04 09:25 |
schestowitz | Hehe. http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/06/03/bing-bing-is-not-google/ | Jun 04 09:25 |
schestowitz | Dogpile | Jun 04 09:26 |
schestowitz | Microsoft's Dogpile | Jun 04 09:26 |
fewa | decision engine | Jun 04 09:28 |
schestowitz | fewa: just quoted you: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/02/mono-an-infectious-disease/comment-page-1/#comment-64785 | Jun 04 09:38 |
schestowitz | I could use help against proponents of Mono | Jun 04 09:38 |
schestowitz | http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/06/boston_police_g.html "Remember, the "terrorist threats" that plague Boston include blinking signs, blinking name badges, and Linux. Would you trust the police there with automatic weapons?" | Jun 04 09:41 |
schestowitz | http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/06/update_on_compu.html "In April, I blogged about the Boston police seizing a student's computer for, among other things, running Linux. (Anyone who runs Linux instead of Windows is obviously a scary bad hacker.)" | Jun 04 09:41 |
fewa | geeze | Jun 04 09:42 |
schestowitz | kentma: BT to roll-out faster broadband < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8081226.stm > | Jun 04 09:42 |
MinceR | j0h0h0 | Jun 04 09:42 |
fewa | In the UK most officers dont even have guns | Jun 04 09:42 |
fewa | or tasers | Jun 04 09:43 |
schestowitz | Different in the US | Jun 04 09:44 |
schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaS2bRGS86c | Jun 04 09:44 |
oiaohm | Hmm not one person tried to defend Mono there. | Jun 04 09:44 |
schestowitz | (George Carlin - We Like War) | Jun 04 09:44 |
fewa | you should have included the source on those microsoft quotes | Jun 04 09:44 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: wait until Jo steps in | Jun 04 09:44 |
schestowitz | Or Jeff Waugh | Jun 04 09:44 |
schestowitz | He used to harass Sam too | Jun 04 09:45 |
schestowitz | fewa: I know | Jun 04 09:45 |
oiaohm | No sure they will show there heads on it. | Jun 04 09:45 |
oiaohm | jo is unlikely. Jo pointed to the open patent protection on the CIL and the C# langage agaist me in another form. Only to have it pointed out that does not cover anything in the runtime of .net | Jun 04 09:47 |
oiaohm | That is under a MIT licence so everyone is on there own. | Jun 04 09:47 |
oiaohm | What is the point of .net without a runtime. | Jun 04 09:47 |
schestowitz | The bully is i Turjey now: http://blogg.idg.se/kylling/entry.jsp?messid=10673 | Jun 04 09:49 |
schestowitz | ID database snooped for celebrities' secrets < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1184506/id-database-snooped-celebrities-secrets > Does make you think twice about privacy in general. Google and other Web companies possess a lot of info too | Jun 04 09:50 |
schestowitz | Weird: Apple confirms $1bn data center < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/04/apple_1bn_north_carolina_data_center/ > | Jun 04 09:52 |
schestowitz | Tim Anderson the Microsoft booster is still writing for the Reg:...http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/04/bing_review/ | Jun 04 09:52 |
schestowitz | Microsoft rips off Wikipedia and does not link to it: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/03/bing_and_wikipedia/ | Jun 04 09:54 |
schestowitz | ATMs running Microsoft Windows get OWN3D in large numbers: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/03/atm_trojans/ When will they learn? | Jun 04 09:59 |
fewa | OOO i need to DMCA microsoft | Jun 04 10:02 |
fewa | running ATMs with windows | Jun 04 10:07 |
fewa | WTF | Jun 04 10:07 |
fewa | thats one application where TC would be useful | Jun 04 10:08 |
schestowitz | Tens of thousands of web sites fall victim to a mass hack attack < http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/139818/from/rss09 > Injection.. | Jun 04 10:08 |
*sdhivya (n=sdhivya@nat/novell/x-f3dda8d01a26c3a9) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 10:09 | |
fewa | lol "that targeted ATMs made by Diebold. " | Jun 04 10:09 |
fewa | more diebold junk | Jun 04 10:09 |
schestowitz | What's in a Name: Can Trademarks be Helpful to Free Software Projects? < http://en.oreilly.com/oscon2009/public/schedule/detail/8190 > SFLC in ORLY conference. | Jun 04 10:11 |
schestowitz | Didn't Diebold rebrand? | Jun 04 10:11 |
fewa | to what? | Jun 04 10:12 |
MinceR | i doubt TC could significantly help such a fiasco | Jun 04 10:12 |
fewa | i would like to know | Jun 04 10:12 |
schestowitz | Or maybe move the voting machines under another brand/susidiary? | Jun 04 10:12 |
MinceR | yes they did, iirc | Jun 04 10:12 |
schestowitz | *sub | Jun 04 10:12 |
fewa | MinceR, require anything executed to be signed | Jun 04 10:12 |
MinceR | hm, apparently they only renamed their voting machines | Jun 04 10:12 |
fewa | MinceR, but alot could be done without TC just requireing signatures on executables | Jun 04 10:12 |
MinceR | that doesn't help vulnerabilities in the os | Jun 04 10:13 |
fewa | the MAC which windows completely lacks | Jun 04 10:13 |
oiaohm | I am getting the felling my comment on the mono one from the person who ways saying it good has been eaten by the net somewhere schestowitz here is it in a pastebin http://pastebin.com/d2d8167fd | Jun 04 10:13 |
MinceR | even if the executable is signed, the bugs are still there | Jun 04 10:13 |
MinceR | and you can run code as that executable | Jun 04 10:13 |
fewa | buggy windows shit | Jun 04 10:13 |
MinceR | even in other processes via remote threads | Jun 04 10:13 |
fewa | yeah most viruses run completely on other processes | Jun 04 10:13 |
fewa | or in hardware interrupts | Jun 04 10:14 |
fewa | crazy | Jun 04 10:14 |
MinceR | code you inject will probably not survive a reboot but that won't do much | Jun 04 10:14 |
schestowitz | The great Tiananmen taboo < http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/02/tiananmen-square-protests-1989-china > | Jun 04 10:14 |
fewa | linux w/ MAC like selinux/apparmor | Jun 04 10:14 |
oiaohm | Code injection does not live threw reboots unless you can get it on disk. | Jun 04 10:14 |
MinceR | indeed | Jun 04 10:14 |
oiaohm | You can memory inject in Linux too fewa but its harder. | Jun 04 10:14 |
MinceR | and that's where TC has a chance of helping | Jun 04 10:14 |
MinceR | (the altered executable will fail the signature check) | Jun 04 10:15 |
fewa | MinceR, but TC is not the weak point | Jun 04 10:15 |
MinceR | though that also depends on what they do about new executables | Jun 04 10:15 |
MinceR | fewa: i know, windows is | Jun 04 10:15 |
MinceR | tc merely fails to help :> | Jun 04 10:15 |
*sdhivya (n=sdhivya@nat/novell/x-f3dda8d01a26c3a9) has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving") | Jun 04 10:15 | |
oiaohm | Signed programs can be done with Linux as well. | Jun 04 10:15 |
fewa | i cant believe they are using windows | Jun 04 10:15 |
oiaohm | It really does not stop attackers. | Jun 04 10:15 |
MinceR | even tc can work with linux | Jun 04 10:15 |
fewa | its that diebold shit | Jun 04 10:16 |
schestowitz | Grand Theft Auto: How Stevie the Rat bankrupted GM < http://www.gregpalast.com/grand-theft-auto-how-stevie-the-rat-bankrupted-gm/ > | Jun 04 10:16 |
oiaohm | There are many places to get around the signed. | Jun 04 10:16 |
fewa | the company that is probably on both sides of their security holes | Jun 04 10:16 |
schestowitz | "Obama's plan for GM's bankruptcy would raid workers' pension funds to give some banks 100% of their loans. So who is Obama really working for?" http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-mar-jun.html#04%20June%202009%20%28Pension%20funds%29 | Jun 04 10:16 |
MinceR | people use windows for many purposes despite windows being a useless pile of stolen code and hacks | Jun 04 10:16 |
fewa | schestowitz, and obama will not get GM's promits from china | Jun 04 10:16 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: where is the comment from? | Jun 04 10:16 |
fewa | they will be excluded | Jun 04 10:16 |
fewa | so the executives will win | Jun 04 10:17 |
fewa | at the expense of UAW, its shareholders, and good american industry | Jun 04 10:18 |
fewa | hipped to china or mexico | Jun 04 10:18 |
oiaohm | Its one I tried to put up on http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/02/mono-an-infectious-disease/comment-page-1/#comment-64785 It appears to been eaten. My connection being speed limited is not the best at moment schestowitz | Jun 04 10:18 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: it was in moderation | Jun 04 10:19 |
schestowitz | It's up now | Jun 04 10:19 |
schestowitz | Maybe it didn't like two URLs | Jun 04 10:19 |
oiaohm | I am only 5g over quota. So ISP giving me trouble would be expected. | Jun 04 10:19 |
schestowitz | fewa: "who does Obama work for?.." | Jun 04 10:19 |
schestowitz | RMS is a Nader supporter, so I wonder if it's a reference to his remarks | Jun 04 10:20 |
schestowitz | OBAMAA already shows he's there for MPAA and RIAA | Jun 04 10:20 |
fewa | http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=afYsmJyngAXQ&refer=home | Jun 04 10:20 |
MinceR | not only for the mafiaa, afaict | Jun 04 10:20 |
fewa | Stiglitz Says Ties to Wall Street Doom Bank Rescue (Update1) | Jun 04 10:20 |
schestowitz | Oh, Stiglitz is moving over here to Manchester | Jun 04 10:21 |
schestowitz | MinceR: to anyone who owns the country | Jun 04 10:21 |
MinceR | indeed | Jun 04 10:21 |
schestowitz | Including the likes of Bill and Steve (and other other Steve... the one with cancer, not the one who calls Linux cancer) | Jun 04 10:21 |
MinceR | indeed | Jun 04 10:22 |
fewa | regardless of presidential stuff, nobody can deny that nader has a better track record than practically anybody else in washington | Jun 04 10:23 |
fewa | Clear Air act, Freedom of Information Act | Jun 04 10:23 |
fewa | seat belts, air bags | Jun 04 10:23 |
oiaohm | Should have said the rewrite of kdevelop 4 is 4 years old. | Jun 04 10:23 |
oiaohm | Its a masive project results are being great. | Jun 04 10:24 |
*jbartosik has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | Jun 04 10:24 | |
oiaohm | Really we should take cancer as a good thing. Since to be a cancer you have to be immortal and able to out live what ever hosts you. | Jun 04 10:25 |
MinceR | no more autoconf hell? :> | Jun 04 10:25 |
oiaohm | automake is worse in kdevelop 4 than 3 still. | Jun 04 10:26 |
oiaohm | Yes they managed to make that bit worse. | Jun 04 10:26 |
oiaohm | auto completes are way better in kdevelop 4. | Jun 04 10:27 |
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-127-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 10:28 | |
_Hicham_ | Hi All! | Jun 04 10:28 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: I bet Ballmer can feel the lump of Linux | Jun 04 10:30 |
schestowitz | Growing inside his market like a libre tumour | Jun 04 10:30 |
schestowitz | Microsoft: the radiotherapy of computing | Jun 04 10:30 |
oiaohm | And just like trying to kill a cancer Linux keeps on poping back up in different locations appearing completely not linked. | Jun 04 10:31 |
oiaohm | If the open source world can take it as a possitive we can remove the sting of being called cancer complete. | Jun 04 10:32 |
MinceR | it's probably better to drive ballmer out of business | Jun 04 10:32 |
MinceR | then nobody will listen to him again | Jun 04 10:33 |
MinceR | he will keep mumbling "cancer" to himself and nobody will publish it | Jun 04 10:33 |
MinceR | it would of course better to punish him for what he did | Jun 04 10:33 |
MinceR | s/se/se be/ | Jun 04 10:33 |
fewa | Revenge is not needed | Jun 04 10:35 |
oiaohm | Its the good old wog defence. | Jun 04 10:35 |
oiaohm | They insult you with it. You take it and make fun of it. | Jun 04 10:35 |
oiaohm | They are the ones who end up looking like the idiot. | Jun 04 10:36 |
fewa | revenge will take its own course without needing to be sought out | Jun 04 10:36 |
MinceR | criminals must be punished so that others will be deterred | Jun 04 10:36 |
MinceR | also, it must be made sure that he can't commit his crimes ever again. | Jun 04 10:36 |
oiaohm | Do you think he would get another job if he is credited for creating a great slogin for his competition at the time. | Jun 04 10:38 |
schestowitz | After running MS into debt? | Jun 04 10:39 |
schestowitz | Not many companies would want him. | Jun 04 10:39 |
schestowitz | McCain wanted him for China | Jun 04 10:39 |
schestowitz | Suits him right | Jun 04 10:39 |
schestowitz | Two oppressors... one nation, one chubby fella | Jun 04 10:39 |
oiaohm | PR libabity and bad money management who is going to what to touch him. | Jun 04 10:40 |
oiaohm | I think he will have toxic branded on him for life. | Jun 04 10:40 |
MinceR | he will still have money to invest, unless it's taken from him | Jun 04 10:41 |
MinceR | (which it absolutely should be) | Jun 04 10:41 |
schestowitz | GNUstep to go... on MIPS < http://multixden.blogspot.com/2009/06/gnustep-to-go-on-mips.html > Gnubook? | Jun 04 10:41 |
amarsh04 | back soon, trying new GRUB... | Jun 04 10:42 |
schestowitz | The Register says Microsoft won't link to the Wikipedia licence (one of those 'commie' GNU things) | Jun 04 10:43 |
*amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Jun 04 10:43 | |
schestowitz | GRUBy GUB | Jun 04 10:43 |
schestowitz | Grubby bootup sequence | Jun 04 10:44 |
schestowitz | Initializing syste... | Jun 04 10:44 |
schestowitz | Washing hands........ [OK] | Jun 04 10:44 |
oiaohm | I really wish someone would release a standard size laptop with arm or mips inside. | Jun 04 10:45 |
oiaohm | With a standard size battery. | Jun 04 10:45 |
oiaohm | Run time could be kinda insane. | Jun 04 10:46 |
_Hicham_ | oiaohm : they would soon | Jun 04 10:46 |
oiaohm | 48 hours runtime anyone. | Jun 04 10:46 |
oiaohm | And other instanty like that would be possiable. | Jun 04 10:47 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: there are hybrids | Jun 04 10:47 |
schestowitz | ARM/x86 laptops | Jun 04 10:47 |
schestowitz | Expensive though | Jun 04 10:47 |
schestowitz | Dell has some | Jun 04 10:47 |
oiaohm | x86 bit makes the expensive. | Jun 04 10:47 |
oiaohm | The arm bit costs bugger all. | Jun 04 10:47 |
schestowitz | Why full size though? | Jun 04 10:47 |
schestowitz | I get lots done with a Palm and foling kb | Jun 04 10:47 |
oiaohm | I am a touch typist | Jun 04 10:47 |
DaemonFC | I compiled FAAC for x64 in Visual Studio | Jun 04 10:47 |
schestowitz | No real browsing thouggh | Jun 04 10:48 |
DaemonFC | it's a fair bit faster than the 32-bit version | Jun 04 10:48 |
oiaohm | Either I have to cary a netbook and a addon keyboard. | Jun 04 10:48 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: Palm keyboard would do touch typing fine | Jun 04 10:48 |
oiaohm | Palm keyboard is nice. | Jun 04 10:48 |
oiaohm | Just I also want a decent sized screen. | Jun 04 10:48 |
fewa | oiaohm, ive been waiting a long time for a good arm laptop | Jun 04 10:48 |
schestowitz | I would buy a second-hand device just to keep it | Jun 04 10:48 |
fewa | mips is too low power AFAIK | Jun 04 10:49 |
schestowitz | It's for real work, nice BabyShaker nonsense | Jun 04 10:49 |
fewa | as in speed | Jun 04 10:49 |
fewa | isnt mips dying? | Jun 04 10:49 |
oiaohm | 64 core mips are really nice. | Jun 04 10:49 |
schestowitz | Nope | Jun 04 10:49 |
schestowitz | China picks it up | Jun 04 10:49 |
fewa | oiaohm, for what? | Jun 04 10:49 |
oiaohm | http://www.eofw.org/bench/ Runing blender fewa | Jun 04 10:50 |
oiaohm | I wish they would get to 1ghz clock speeds. | Jun 04 10:50 |
oiaohm | Most likely they would kick the crap out of intel and amd processes. | Jun 04 10:50 |
schestowitz | Novell stooge Asay (former employee) ups speculations about Red Hat bought by oracle: http://www.thedeal.com/dealscape/2009/06/red_hat_on_oracles_head.php | Jun 04 10:51 |
schestowitz | The press thinks, HEY! It's CNET. It must be something | Jun 04 10:51 |
fewa | not going to happen | Jun 04 10:51 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: I'm writing a shell extension to give Windows Explorer the ability to display media information from AAC, FLAC, and Vorbis files :P | Jun 04 10:51 |
DaemonFC | who knows why? Winamp is a much better tag editor | Jun 04 10:52 |
fewa | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TrPwOrf4sM The Onion: Blockbuster Offers Glimpse Of Movie Renting Past | Jun 04 10:53 |
*amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-46-235.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 10:53 | |
oiaohm | http://www.totalrewind.com/portfolio/view.php?name=BlenderExtender << maybe you can work with this guy DaemonFC | Jun 04 10:53 |
DaemonFC | hmmmm | Jun 04 10:53 |
DaemonFC | there are some shell extensions out there, but they only integrate with 32-bit Explorer | Jun 04 10:54 |
DaemonFC | so I'd have to set my shell as %systemroot%/SysWOW64/Explorer.exe | Jun 04 10:55 |
DaemonFC | wow64 usually works well, but you run into occasional programs that don't have 64-bit shell extensions | Jun 04 10:56 |
oiaohm | Thinking blender is 32 bit and 64 bit on windows and Linux he will have to get to the 64 bit version at some point. | Jun 04 10:56 |
DaemonFC | 32-bit programs can extend the shell on 64-bit Windows, only the shell extensions need to be modified really | Jun 04 10:56 |
DaemonFC | I really have no idea why people recommend Nero AAC, the damned thing says it was built in 2000 | Jun 04 10:57 |
DaemonFC | it's 9 years old | Jun 04 10:57 |
DaemonFC | yuck | Jun 04 10:57 |
fewa | DaemonFC, why dont you just play your music | Jun 04 10:57 |
fewa | and enjoy it | Jun 04 10:57 |
DaemonFC | cause this portable I just ordered has me on a tear looking at different encoders | Jun 04 10:59 |
DaemonFC | and tweaking things | Jun 04 10:59 |
DaemonFC | you know | Jun 04 10:59 |
schestowitz | The Internet is 183 million big, and that is official < http://www.daniweb.com/blogs/entry4410.html >. | Jun 04 10:59 |
fewa | its alot bigger than that | Jun 04 11:00 |
DaemonFC | so that's what? about 110 million Internet Explorer users out there? | Jun 04 11:00 |
*DaemonFC cringes | Jun 04 11:00 | |
fewa | i mean ALOT bigger than that | Jun 04 11:00 |
DaemonFC | and about 164 million Windows users | Jun 04 11:01 |
fewa | wait, thats just publically registered domain names | Jun 04 11:01 |
DaemonFC | oh | Jun 04 11:01 |
fewa | DaemonFC, its just domain names | Jun 04 11:01 |
fewa | there are WAY, WAY more users of the internet than that | Jun 04 11:01 |
DaemonFC | I've been up all night | Jun 04 11:02 |
DaemonFC | I have an excuse :P | Jun 04 11:02 |
fewa | thats about how many users of the internet there is in the US | Jun 04 11:02 |
fewa | thats alot of money | Jun 04 11:02 |
fewa | registering domain names | Jun 04 11:02 |
fewa | maybe $2 billion/year | Jun 04 11:03 |
*PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jun 04 11:03 | |
schestowitz | Zemlin appears to be _Censoring_ trackbacks: http://www.linux-foundation.org/weblogs/jzemlin/2009/06/01/canola-project%E2%80%99s-gplv3-permissions-are-worth-a-look/ | Jun 04 11:03 |
schestowitz | fewa: ICANN might get replaced | Jun 04 11:04 |
schestowitz | Europe wants to be dissociated with that all | Jun 04 11:04 |
fewa | by what? | Jun 04 11:04 |
schestowitz | Remember how Condy Rice rejected it? | Jun 04 11:04 |
schestowitz | The neo-cons said something about controlling the Internet | Jun 04 11:05 |
schestowitz | because "they "created it | Jun 04 11:05 |
fewa | i dont see whats broken about the current system | Jun 04 11:05 |
fewa | the europeans can make their own TLD if they want to | Jun 04 11:05 |
schestowitz | The Web came also from CERN, no? (first site) | Jun 04 11:05 |
fewa | noone is stopping them | Jun 04 11:05 |
schestowitz | Did domains exist in their current form before the Web? | Jun 04 11:05 |
oiaohm | Usa controls the top domain server. | Jun 04 11:05 |
schestowitz | Like bloggs.com? | Jun 04 11:05 |
schestowitz | If not, then it's not a US military thing | Jun 04 11:05 |
schestowitz | Brad Templeton was among those voting on the structure of top-level domains | Jun 04 11:06 |
fewa | they should just ask for a TLD of their own | Jun 04 11:06 |
fewa | that they will regulate | Jun 04 11:06 |
fewa | and to have ICANN be more independant | Jun 04 11:06 |
fewa | but messing around with something that works generally mean more beurocracy | Jun 04 11:06 |
schestowitz | Maybe they ask for permission now, politely | Jun 04 11:07 |
oiaohm | Really it could get a mess if all interconnets to the USA failed. | Jun 04 11:07 |
schestowitz | fewa: it doesn't work | Jun 04 11:07 |
schestowitz | Not for everyone | Jun 04 11:07 |
DaemonFC | I can't wait to see what the internet will be like when this shit hits the fan | Jun 04 11:07 |
oiaohm | It really should have back up location spreed around the world. | Jun 04 11:07 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 04 11:07 |
schestowitz | There is supprt for just latin chars | Jun 04 11:07 |
fewa | they publish the root zone | Jun 04 11:07 |
schestowitz | The Greek were not happy about it some years back | Jun 04 11:07 |
fewa | so anyone can host it | Jun 04 11:07 |
schestowitz | And what about China? | Jun 04 11:07 |
DaemonFC | thats what I was thinking | Jun 04 11:08 |
fewa | all the countries have their own domains | Jun 04 11:08 |
fewa | that they can do anything they want to with | Jun 04 11:08 |
oiaohm | But there is no system to update it in case of failure fewa. | Jun 04 11:08 |
oiaohm | Who will take over if the center goes down fewa | Jun 04 11:08 |
oiaohm | That is not decided. | Jun 04 11:08 |
schestowitz | It almost was | Jun 04 11:08 |
schestowitz | DNS came under attack | Jun 04 11:08 |
oiaohm | It really should be. | Jun 04 11:08 |
fewa | you mean the GTLD? | Jun 04 11:08 |
schestowitz | DDoS from China in 2006/7 | Jun 04 11:08 |
fewa | the federal domains are fine | Jun 04 11:08 |
fewa | the GTLD are verisign and stuff | Jun 04 11:09 |
fewa | federal domains are regulated by the country they are alloted to | Jun 04 11:09 |
DaemonFC | well, as it stands, we could cut off most of asia and africa and lost nothing but penis pill spam and nigerian scams | Jun 04 11:09 |
DaemonFC | seriously, what do these backwaters do for the internet that has earned them the right to partially govern it? | Jun 04 11:09 |
schestowitz | Stop trolling | Jun 04 11:09 |
fewa | go to sleep, dillydally with codecs | Jun 04 11:10 |
DaemonFC | heh | Jun 04 11:10 |
fewa | schestowitz, but the root certificate is published, anyone can host it | Jun 04 11:10 |
fewa | and any ISP could easily set up their own server on that IP and only accept requests from their customers | Jun 04 11:11 |
oiaohm | Yes any ISP can host a DNS cache. | Jun 04 11:11 |
fewa | or even impersonate the root CA server | Jun 04 11:12 |
oiaohm | fewa what I am talking about the system to add or alter a domain name. | Jun 04 11:12 |
fewa | one of them | Jun 04 11:12 |
DaemonFC | I'd like to see what the EU's position on Microsoft, Intel, and ICANN would be if they were all based there | Jun 04 11:12 |
DaemonFC | I really would | Jun 04 11:12 |
fewa | oiaohm, thats not the root system however, that problem is limited to the GTLD: .com, .net, .org | Jun 04 11:12 |
DaemonFC | something tells me they'd let them commit murder and not ask questions | Jun 04 11:12 |
fewa | the federal ones are all delegated to the countries | Jun 04 11:12 |
fewa | DaemonFC, stop trolling | Jun 04 11:13 |
DaemonFC | not trolling, the EU just wants to bitch about anything that is American and successful | Jun 04 11:13 |
DaemonFC | and steal their money | Jun 04 11:13 |
oiaohm | All country .au .... dns's are listed in the central. if one of those need updating and you cannot update central you will lose a segment. | Jun 04 11:13 |
DaemonFC | you'll notice that no actual sanctions ever come out of the EU that benefit consumers | Jun 04 11:14 |
oiaohm | yes the system can run with central down. | Jun 04 11:14 |
DaemonFC | they just hit Microsoft and Intel up for money | Jun 04 11:14 |
oiaohm | As long as nothing the centrel provides needs updating fewa. | Jun 04 11:14 |
fewa | thats just a network neutrality problem, if the server ip address pointed to are alloted to the country at issue | Jun 04 11:14 |
fewa | new zones | Jun 04 11:15 |
DaemonFC | I'd like to know exactly what they've done to stop Microsoft from forcing IE and Windows Media Player | Jun 04 11:15 |
DaemonFC | nothing | Jun 04 11:15 |
oiaohm | Central lists the ip's of the valid dns provides from the tree. | Jun 04 11:15 |
DaemonFC | they always use it as their excuse to come take money | Jun 04 11:15 |
DaemonFC | then they don't do anything | Jun 04 11:15 |
fewa | and as long as those ips belong to the right people, then those people are responsible on routing them correctly | Jun 04 11:15 |
fewa | but yes, the root zone could be a political thing | Jun 04 11:15 |
oiaohm | root zone is a libablity. | Jun 04 11:16 |
fewa | how? | Jun 04 11:16 |
DaemonFC | if the EU was worried about Microsoft forcing IE and Media Player, the time to act was 11 years ago | Jun 04 11:16 |
fewa | its pretty static | Jun 04 11:16 |
oiaohm | Currently there is no back up plan. | Jun 04 11:16 |
DaemonFC | they don't give a shit about that, it's an excuse to tax them | Jun 04 11:16 |
oiaohm | If USA provide of root zone goes everything loss means to update. | Jun 04 11:16 |
oiaohm | in the root zone. | Jun 04 11:17 |
fewa | anyone can keep with a old version | Jun 04 11:17 |
fewa | at their choice | Jun 04 11:17 |
oiaohm | Point old version. | Jun 04 11:17 |
oiaohm | How do you update it. | Jun 04 11:17 |
fewa | politic | Jun 04 11:17 |
oiaohm | That is what is missing. | Jun 04 11:17 |
fewa | s | Jun 04 11:17 |
fewa | i really dont see it as an issue | Jun 04 11:17 |
oiaohm | The system does have fall backs in it design. | Jun 04 11:17 |
fewa | the real issue is network neutrality | Jun 04 11:17 |
DaemonFC | I'd just flip them the bird and go right along | Jun 04 11:17 |
fewa | not the root zone | Jun 04 11:17 |
oiaohm | But there is no allocated fall back. | Jun 04 11:18 |
DaemonFC | one time I agree with the Bush administration | Jun 04 11:18 |
oiaohm | The root zone can have a fall back it in dns design fewa | Jun 04 11:18 |
oiaohm | Usa basically has choosen not to. | Jun 04 11:18 |
fewa | if it had fal back, it would have to have a differnt fall back for every area | Jun 04 11:18 |
fewa | as otherwise the fallback would have the exact same problems that the root zone might have | Jun 04 11:19 |
fewa | there is no DDoS risk on the root zone | Jun 04 11:19 |
fewa | as there is no resource to DDoS | Jun 04 11:19 |
fewa | the ip addressees, and the root zone, is static enought to be hosted anywhere, its API is documented and replicatable | Jun 04 11:19 |
fewa | so tis a non-issue | Jun 04 11:20 |
DaemonFC | back in 2003, there was an attempted ddos attack on the root DNS servers, it got a lot of coverage, but it really meant nothing | Jun 04 11:20 |
fewa | except for updates | Jun 04 11:20 |
oiaohm | 2003 the root zone was taken off line. | Jun 04 11:20 |
DaemonFC | as the root servers have directly, very little to do with look up requests from you | Jun 04 11:20 |
fewa | only because ISPs didnt think about their own backup plan | Jun 04 11:20 |
fewa | of locally hosted, locally-accessable mirrors | Jun 04 11:20 |
oiaohm | There was not major disruption. | Jun 04 11:20 |
DaemonFC | I was unaffected | Jun 04 11:20 |
oiaohm | Most of the core servers stuck to there IPs | Jun 04 11:21 |
DaemonFC | that's why your ISP should have a cache | Jun 04 11:21 |
oiaohm | a few countries did drop off. | Jun 04 11:21 |
schestowitz | zoobab01: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090603224807259 | Jun 04 11:21 |
fewa | if it has a backup, the backup has to be special multi-homed ips, that are only locally accessable from ones ISP/country | Jun 04 11:21 |
fewa | but thats already possible, and easy to do, so its a non-issue | Jun 04 11:22 |
oiaohm | A fall back means if USA could not provide the server and more X group would be allowed to pick I up so internet would go on as nothing happened. | Jun 04 11:22 |
fewa | you just dont get it | Jun 04 11:23 |
oiaohm | Currently we don't have another group with the power to pick it up and just keep the network running. So what we had last time was about 12 countries wanting to take root. | Jun 04 11:23 |
fewa | because the root zone is static, there is no problem in anyone impersonating the root zone's ip addresses and function | Jun 04 11:23 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: a matter of autonomy | Jun 04 11:23 |
fewa | therefore its immune from DDoS | Jun 04 11:23 |
schestowitz | If a EU country is in conflict with the US, then the US can digitally suspend it | Jun 04 11:23 |
*the_mad_hatter (i=63ee03e6@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-03e87c59e0a34cba) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 11:24 | |
fewa | no it cant | Jun 04 11:24 |
oiaohm | Other than valid signing of updates fewa | Jun 04 11:24 |
fewa | thats ludicris | Jun 04 11:24 |
DaemonFC | we wouldn't do something like that | Jun 04 11:24 |
DaemonFC | we're not the Chinese | Jun 04 11:24 |
schestowitz | So it's not surprising that control freaks like Rice refuse to give up control | Jun 04 11:24 |
the_mad_hatter | Morning. | Jun 04 11:24 |
the_mad_hatter | Roy, have you seen http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Main_Page#Blogs_and_Discussion_Groups_that_cover_Patent_Issues | Jun 04 11:24 |
fewa | anyperson on the network can impersonate anyone else, with that persons address, and do so completely undetected, as long as it knows as much as the other server | Jun 04 11:24 |
fewa | which is true on the root zones | Jun 04 11:25 |
fewa | its simple | Jun 04 11:25 |
fewa | geesus christ | Jun 04 11:25 |
DaemonFC | sche's not in charge of anything anymore you know | Jun 04 11:25 |
DaemonFC | that would be Hillary Clinton | Jun 04 11:25 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 04 11:25 |
schestowitz | the_mad_hatter: I'll look | Jun 04 11:25 |
fewa | the root zone, staying as it is, is a complete non issue | Jun 04 11:25 |
the_mad_hatter | and also this: | Jun 04 11:25 |
the_mad_hatter | http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Should_the_whole_patent_system_be_axed | Jun 04 11:25 |
DaemonFC | hmmm | Jun 04 11:26 |
fewa | http://piratpartiet.se/ | Jun 04 11:26 |
fewa | 2 days | Jun 04 11:26 |
DaemonFC | Bing added nws | Jun 04 11:26 |
DaemonFC | *news | Jun 04 11:26 |
schestowitz | the_mad_hatter: are we included | Jun 04 11:26 |
oiaohm | Would work if it was not all signed to prevent tampering to maintain trust between servers fewa. Its I encrypt so I am. | Jun 04 11:27 |
fewa | oiaohm, anyone can replicate signed responses | Jun 04 11:27 |
fewa | and sine the whole zone is published its still a non-issue | Jun 04 11:27 |
schestowitz | "A study a while back by Groklaw contributor Wayne aka "The Mad Hatter", which involved reading several hundred patent applications..." | Jun 04 11:27 |
fewa | however the signed prevents changing it | Jun 04 11:27 |
oiaohm | That is the problem. | Jun 04 11:27 |
the_mad_hatter | yes, there are some links here. | Jun 04 11:27 |
fewa | so still as i said, keeping the network the same is easy | Jun 04 11:28 |
oiaohm | If change need to happen for some reason due to root zone being down currently you cannot simply. | Jun 04 11:28 |
fewa | with caching its always possible to keep the system working exactly the same | Jun 04 11:28 |
oiaohm | Because there is not a secound group or more setup with keys. | Jun 04 11:28 |
fewa | does mean the root zone should be published with an infinite expire length | Jun 04 11:28 |
oiaohm | Currently you would have to try to built the updating system on the fly. | Jun 04 11:28 |
the_mad_hatter | Aim was to get connections back as well, so that people know what is going on. | Jun 04 11:28 |
fewa | otherwise you have set up a ticking time bomb of power | Jun 04 11:29 |
the_mad_hatter | anyway, I have to run, breaksfast is cooking. | Jun 04 11:29 |
fewa | all signature need to be infinite length, just have recommendations or such | Jun 04 11:29 |
schestowitz | http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-open/?p=3653 | Jun 04 11:29 |
fewa | limited length is artificial scarcity for the power of the certificate signers | Jun 04 11:29 |
fewa | without any added security | Jun 04 11:29 |
schestowitz | Not sure how I feel about IBM bribing analysts to promote Linux | Jun 04 11:29 |
schestowitz | It's not harmful, but it's fire vs fire | Jun 04 11:29 |
schestowitz | They also feed the shills from IDC | Jun 04 11:30 |
schestowitz | Same immoral industry | Jun 04 11:30 |
schestowitz | For IBM to promote a free platform with | Jun 04 11:30 |
fewa | doe anyone know more about how the DNSSEC signatures work ith respect to expirations? | Jun 04 11:30 |
DaemonFC | The Republicans sink to another low | Jun 04 11:30 |
schestowitz | the_mad_hatter: laters | Jun 04 11:30 |
oiaohm | They keys get updated as well fewa. So any root zone key is only valid for 12 months before its replaced fewa and the new key . | Jun 04 11:30 |
DaemonFC | criticizing the president for taking his wife out to dinner | Jun 04 11:31 |
DaemonFC | :P | Jun 04 11:31 |
fewa | thats ugly | Jun 04 11:31 |
fewa | gives too much power to the signors | Jun 04 11:31 |
oiaohm | Now can you see why EU is upset. | Jun 04 11:31 |
fewa | things should never stop working due to expired signatures | Jun 04 11:31 |
fewa | they should just have less trust | Jun 04 11:32 |
oiaohm | You are limited on that. | Jun 04 11:32 |
oiaohm | You don't want fake dns enteryes entering the system. | Jun 04 11:32 |
fewa | they arnt fake | Jun 04 11:32 |
fewa | they are signed | Jun 04 11:32 |
*the_mad_hatter has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | Jun 04 11:32 | |
oiaohm | But there should be more than 1 key holder. | Jun 04 11:32 |
fewa | we havnt had signed DNS at all and everything works | Jun 04 11:33 |
fewa | why would it be any differnt in the future | Jun 04 11:33 |
fewa | so letting everything work with expired, but valid signatures, is important | Jun 04 11:33 |
oiaohm | Supprising a lot of DNS servers at ISP use signatures to other DNS servers to validate transfers. | Jun 04 11:33 |
fewa | and the signatures are only moderately useful anyways because they rely on faithful networking and routing | Jun 04 11:34 |
DaemonFC | I noticed none of the Republicans have a problem with a 7 foot tall statue of Ronald Reagan going up at taxpayer expense | Jun 04 11:34 |
schestowitz | Fedora 11 is 6 days away. http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora | Jun 04 11:34 |
oiaohm | To prevent DNS spoofing. | Jun 04 11:34 |
DaemonFC | but god forbif the president and his wife have dinner | Jun 04 11:34 |
DaemonFC | *forbid | Jun 04 11:34 |
oiaohm | That came in around 1996 by the way fewa | Jun 04 11:34 |
fewa | with DNSSEC dns is becoming alot more important | Jun 04 11:34 |
schestowitz | Ronald Reagan: worse than Bush? | Jun 04 11:34 |
DaemonFC | no, probably not | Jun 04 11:35 |
fewa | perhaps computers should come with more root certificates | Jun 04 11:35 |
schestowitz | Good for him | Jun 04 11:35 |
oiaohm | With the DNSSEC the top of the tree becomes important fewa. | Jun 04 11:35 |
schestowitz | Bush did him a favour | Jun 04 11:35 |
DaemonFC | I'd have to strain to think of the last president we had worse than Bush | Jun 04 11:35 |
schestowitz | People will cite Bush as the rotten apple example from now on | Jun 04 11:35 |
DaemonFC | not in my lifetime | Jun 04 11:35 |
fewa | and needs a cercle of trust | Jun 04 11:35 |
oiaohm | Basically we need more than 1 group in charge of center in a fall over setup. | Jun 04 11:36 |
fewa | people need easy ways to change their trust | Jun 04 11:36 |
oiaohm | Ie usa fails EU can pick it up and so on. | Jun 04 11:36 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: or God forbid Obama flies to his dying mother (grandma?) | Jun 04 11:36 |
fewa | and have multiple trusts | Jun 04 11:36 |
oiaohm | We need to know in advance where the next control location will be. | Jun 04 11:36 |
DaemonFC | Herbert Hoover is widely compared to Bush | Jun 04 11:36 |
oiaohm | So changing is quick and painless. | Jun 04 11:36 |
DaemonFC | for being dismissive and indecisive going into the depression | Jun 04 11:36 |
schestowitz | Yes | Jun 04 11:37 |
fewa | they really shouldnt expire | Jun 04 11:37 |
DaemonFC | grandmother | Jun 04 11:37 |
schestowitz | But different circumstances | Jun 04 11:37 |
schestowitz | Hoover came into a mess | Jun 04 11:37 |
oiaohm | Users would never know anything had changed if it was setup that way. | Jun 04 11:37 |
fewa | i mean they can expire, but expired records should never cause things to not be routed | Jun 04 11:37 |
schestowitz | Bush did not enter into a mess | Jun 04 11:37 |
schestowitz | Except the HUGE bubble | Jun 04 11:37 |
fewa | or you create a politicians best dream: a ticking timebomb of fear | Jun 04 11:37 |
DaemonFC | yeah, if his administration had done something about it in 2001/2002 | Jun 04 11:37 |
fewa | on a rolling basis | Jun 04 11:37 |
DaemonFC | it would never have gotten this bad | Jun 04 11:37 |
schestowitz | http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download Enjoy it while it stays on top. Ubuntu is no underdog anymore. Other distro will dethrone it | Jun 04 11:38 |
oiaohm | EU has valid reason to be unhappy with the current setup fewa | Jun 04 11:38 |
DaemonFC | What had happened to cause this was the minority loan program the Democrats set up | Jun 04 11:38 |
DaemonFC | to give unqualified minorities housing loans | Jun 04 11:38 |
fewa | oiaohm, i was still thinking- pre-DNSSEC | Jun 04 11:38 |
oiaohm | pre-DNSSEC there was not a problem. | Jun 04 11:39 |
fewa | what do the RFC's say about expired records? | Jun 04 11:39 |
oiaohm | Crypt keys have to expire. | Jun 04 11:39 |
fewa | but can hosts still use them? | Jun 04 11:39 |
fewa | and ttreat them as unexpired at their own peril? | Jun 04 11:39 |
oiaohm | Because once they pass a particular age they could be cracked. | Jun 04 11:39 |
fewa | oiaohm, thats just jibberish, the user can easily determine that themselves | Jun 04 11:40 |
fewa | based on the algorythm, importance, etc | Jun 04 11:40 |
oiaohm | Think about the damage you could do if you could spoof at top of the dns tree fewa. | Jun 04 11:40 |
fewa | i mean the reciever of the record | Jun 04 11:40 |
fewa | oiaohm, none, because you dont are not routed into the DNS checks of the ISPs | Jun 04 11:40 |
fewa | and because the root cert is published | Jun 04 11:41 |
fewa | distrobuted checks will be much more usefull in fighing such threats | Jun 04 11:41 |
fewa | in a way that does not give too much control to one party | Jun 04 11:42 |
oiaohm | What if you could spoof the root recoders to tell all dns servers to look to yours instead of anyone elses. | Jun 04 11:42 |
fewa | oiaohm, if the records are older the reciever can be smart about its age | Jun 04 11:42 |
fewa | and a more recent record can take precendence if it is allowed to | Jun 04 11:43 |
fewa | but strict expirations with no explicit allowance of tolerance is too much control on the signors | Jun 04 11:43 |
oiaohm | Person who is in charge of the cent can create more recent records. | Jun 04 11:44 |
oiaohm | The DNS server setup is a tree not a web. | Jun 04 11:45 |
oiaohm | Web is more resistant to these kinds of abuse. | Jun 04 11:45 |
fewa | exactly | Jun 04 11:45 |
fewa | its needs more of a web model | Jun 04 11:45 |
oiaohm | Web requires more than I signor. | Jun 04 11:45 |
oiaohm | 1 signor | Jun 04 11:45 |
oiaohm | to prevent spoofing. | Jun 04 11:46 |
fewa | and rules on clients set by RFCs need to give recievers the discretion | Jun 04 11:46 |
oiaohm | Basically the central model of the DNS servers in use is trouble. | Jun 04 11:46 |
fewa | which end user clients can read on their merits of signatures | Jun 04 11:46 |
fewa | a 1 year expiration is horrible | Jun 04 11:47 |
*ziggyfish (n=brendan@123-243-163-103.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 11:47 | |
oiaohm | Its fairly much standard crypt key expire. | Jun 04 11:47 |
ziggyfish | http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=2942&tag=nl.e539 | Jun 04 11:47 |
fewa | thats bs if implamented like that | Jun 04 11:47 |
ziggyfish | Windows 7: The incentives are coming | Jun 04 11:47 |
oiaohm | Past that date new updates will not be accepted without the new key basically. | Jun 04 11:47 |
ziggyfish | Meanwhile, on the business side of the house, there was a recent report on the UX Evangelist enthusiast blog that Microsoft has been offering volume licensees a chance to lock in Windows 7 Enterprise for $77 per copy as one of their Software Assurance benefits. | Jun 04 11:47 |
fewa | gives them a date each year where they can increase their budget | Jun 04 11:48 |
oiaohm | Even web based would still need a key turn over system fewa | Jun 04 11:48 |
fewa | but many of them | Jun 04 11:48 |
schestowitz | MinceR: : great news. Hungary makes ODF a national standard Hungary makes ODF a national standards | Jun 04 11:48 |
oiaohm | The yearly turn over of key is not the problem fewa | Jun 04 11:49 |
schestowitz | http://twitter.com/rcweir/statuses/2015996884 | Jun 04 11:49 |
oiaohm | Its the lack of keys fewa | Jun 04 11:49 |
fewa | both are problems | Jun 04 11:49 |
oiaohm | key turn over is fairly well handled. | Jun 04 11:49 |
fewa | you just need an algorhthm | Jun 04 11:49 |
oiaohm | New key turns up about 1 month before the current key expires. | Jun 04 11:49 |
fewa | based on relative trust of many keys, the age of records | Jun 04 11:49 |
MinceR | schestowitz: nice | Jun 04 11:49 |
MinceR | i hope it will affect at least state institutions, including educational ones | Jun 04 11:50 |
fewa | voting algorythm | Jun 04 11:50 |
oiaohm | Problem is what do you do if no key turns up fewa | Jun 04 11:50 |
fewa | what do you mean? | Jun 04 11:50 |
fewa | if someone loses the key? | Jun 04 11:51 |
oiaohm | These are public and private keys. | Jun 04 11:51 |
fewa | page rank for key signing | Jun 04 11:51 |
oiaohm | If you don't get a public key you cannot check upates. | Jun 04 11:51 |
fewa | no, if you dont _trust_ a public key | Jun 04 11:51 |
oiaohm | You still need to confirm the records you have got somehow. | Jun 04 11:52 |
fewa | page rank for key signing seems the right way | Jun 04 11:52 |
fewa | first public keys are distrobuted with the computer as always | Jun 04 11:52 |
fewa | and people can add their own | Jun 04 11:52 |
oiaohm | This would be a more web based design. | Jun 04 11:53 |
fewa | page rank seem s to me a great way to do it | Jun 04 11:53 |
fewa | all keys are trees, and have relative scores | Jun 04 11:53 |
oiaohm | All I know for sure is something has to give. | Jun 04 11:53 |
oiaohm | way dns is setup currently is just wrong. To open to a major all out screw up | Jun 04 11:54 |
fewa | your computer will have a voting algorhthm to compare any two conflicting records | Jun 04 11:54 |
DaemonFC | ugggh | Jun 04 11:54 |
DaemonFC | Billboard.com makes you download Silverlight to listen to music | Jun 04 11:54 |
fewa | but it will still keep a top down approach | Jun 04 11:56 |
fewa | tmany keys is really just for disaggreements | Jun 04 11:56 |
schestowitz | Over a dozen countries have already elected ODF as a "national standard" (sometimes PDF too, for Web sites) | Jun 04 11:56 |
fewa | similar to how political/government systems work | Jun 04 11:56 |
oiaohm | Your system I would trust more than current. | Jun 04 11:58 |
oiaohm | Almost anything that works would be safer than current fewa | Jun 04 11:58 |
oiaohm | Thinking current system does not ever have a offical fall back out side the USA. | Jun 04 11:58 |
fewa | we need to implament the infrastructure for a web based dns | Jun 04 11:58 |
fewa | and then it would have the policical resilience to stay a healthy top down, with backup | Jun 04 11:59 |
oiaohm | Lot of pre DNSSEC people like you fail to see the problem. | Jun 04 12:00 |
oiaohm | We need to get them aware of it too. | Jun 04 12:00 |
fewa | yeah i was fighting you,, but really just had to realize the effects of DNSSEC | Jun 04 12:00 |
fewa | i was thinking pre-DNSSEC | Jun 04 12:00 |
fewa | which is basically free market | Jun 04 12:00 |
fewa | * narchy | Jun 04 12:00 |
oiaohm | Its why a lot of people still think it fine. | Jun 04 12:00 |
oiaohm | Lot of text books still talk about the pre DNSSEC days. | Jun 04 12:01 |
*ziggyfish has quit ("Leaving") | Jun 04 12:01 | |
fewa | now we need to write the protocols | Jun 04 12:01 |
oiaohm | I still remember breaking down laughing in 2007 with a new printed network design book. It did not have a single bit on DNSSEC | Jun 04 12:01 |
fewa | and have some recommend voting algorythms (remember that anyone can decide however they want, and signatures present all the evidence they need to make an informed choice) | Jun 04 12:01 |
oiaohm | For me at min a fall back system. | Jun 04 12:02 |
oiaohm | Planed out in advance. | Jun 04 12:02 |
oiaohm | It could be activated in the current framework without having to add a new system. | Jun 04 12:02 |
fewa | a web based model will use alot more bandwidth | Jun 04 12:02 |
fewa | but will have alot more security | Jun 04 12:03 |
oiaohm | Fall back has lower bandwidth usage. | Jun 04 12:03 |
fewa | but remember the web will be optional | Jun 04 12:03 |
fewa | its only to add structure and security | Jun 04 12:03 |
fewa | if you dont trust what you are being told | Jun 04 12:03 |
oiaohm | Most likely a combination of both. | Jun 04 12:03 |
oiaohm | Ie fall back to start off. | Jun 04 12:03 |
oiaohm | And development and testing of web based. | Jun 04 12:04 |
fewa | big thing is there needs to be an ability in DNSSEC for multiple signatures | Jun 04 12:04 |
oiaohm | So when it starts being used it works find and is as light as able. | Jun 04 12:04 |
oiaohm | DNSSEC can operate with multiple signatures. | Jun 04 12:04 |
fewa | hell you could include dns responses in urls :P | Jun 04 12:04 |
fewa | that would be interesting | Jun 04 12:04 |
oiaohm | That is why fall back can operate. | Jun 04 12:05 |
fewa | not really urls, but in reference to resources | Jun 04 12:05 |
fewa | basically like telling someone | Jun 04 12:05 |
fewa | yeah Joe Schomo said whatever | Jun 04 12:05 |
fewa | i last saw him, the last number i called him at was XXX | Jun 04 12:05 |
fewa | instead of forcing everybody to go to a directory | Jun 04 12:06 |
fewa | which in society would seem quite funny | Jun 04 12:06 |
fewa | but thats exactly how the internet works | Jun 04 12:06 |
*_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) | Jun 04 12:08 | |
oiaohm | Only thing new yours would require is a rating system that stayed trustable and was proven so fewa. | Jun 04 12:08 |
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-127-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 12:09 | |
oiaohm | The proving so is the hard bit fewa. | Jun 04 12:09 |
fewa | it might have to have karma | Jun 04 12:09 |
fewa | and the rating is still based on root certificates | Jun 04 12:10 |
fewa | its just that the root certificates all have differnt trusts | Jun 04 12:10 |
oiaohm | Mine is just pure old tech everyones not bothering using. | Jun 04 12:10 |
fewa | but yeah simple first is better | Jun 04 12:10 |
fewa | problem is also that this is a very social problem | Jun 04 12:11 |
fewa | and users of the internet are generally still too awed by "magic" to understand these social problems | Jun 04 12:11 |
mtnd3w | Steven Ballmer threatens Obama saying he will move employees offshore if Congress enacts Obama’s plans to impose higher taxes on U.S. companies’ foreign profits. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=amBiYGyHOkZ8 | Jun 04 12:11 |
fewa | let him go | Jun 04 12:12 |
fewa | it wouldnt change anything | Jun 04 12:12 |
mtnd3w | someone needs to tell Obama to push GNU/Linux it will save on taxes in all areas. | Jun 04 12:13 |
fewa | yeah | Jun 04 12:13 |
fewa | like the military Being microsoft's best friends--moving to office 2007 and vista | Jun 04 12:14 |
fewa | on tax payer money | Jun 04 12:14 |
mtnd3w | seriously, what is that? | Jun 04 12:15 |
mtnd3w | the most insecure OS? | Jun 04 12:15 |
mtnd3w | i guess they need to fabricate more war | Jun 04 12:15 |
fewa | exactly | Jun 04 12:15 |
*_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | Jun 04 12:16 | |
fewa | any i bet they dont even get a fair deal, as they dont threat linux | Jun 04 12:16 |
schestowitz | mtnd3w: “It makes U.S. jobs more expensive,” Ballmer said in an interview. | Jun 04 12:22 |
schestowitz | It's called wage | Jun 04 12:22 |
schestowitz | Yes, wage is "expensive | Jun 04 12:22 |
schestowitz | Someone should explain this to young Frankensteve | Jun 04 12:22 |
schestowitz | No waonder waves have been stagnant in the states for decades | Jun 04 12:22 |
MinceR | then the natural m$ reaction would be to eliminate this "wage" thing | Jun 04 12:22 |
schestowitz | So that companies will keep their margins | Jun 04 12:22 |
schestowitz | They offer loans to those very same employees | Jun 04 12:22 |
fewa | Microsoft is evading so much taxes it would be better to just push them out | Jun 04 12:22 |
schestowitz | Ie.e. steal their money, then chanrge them interest on it | Jun 04 12:22 |
schestowitz | mtnd3w: they blackmail OBAMAA et al | Jun 04 12:23 |
*Eruaran (n=quassel@183.110.208.203.cable.dyn.gex.ncable.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 12:23 | |
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-127-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 12:25 | |
*schestowitz looks for quote where Ballmer calls "waves" a "cancer" | Jun 04 12:27 | |
schestowitz | *wages | Jun 04 12:27 |
mtnd3w | schestowitz: good point, thats the Microsoft philosophy | Jun 04 12:28 |
oiaohm | The more you know about MS the more you want to kill them. | Jun 04 12:29 |
oiaohm | Really it would be funny if the pres had just put Ballmer in jail for threating national secuirty. | Jun 04 12:30 |
schestowitz | “It makes U.S. jobs more expensive” -- Steve Ballmer, 2009 | Jun 04 12:31 |
schestowitz | Another way to put it: | Jun 04 12:31 |
schestowitz | "It raises wages for American people" | Jun 04 12:31 |
schestowitz | Or: | Jun 04 12:31 |
schestowitz | "it helps the US economy recover by helping families" | Jun 04 12:32 |
fewa | twitching that spin machine | Jun 04 12:32 |
schestowitz | Hungary Makes ODF a National Standard < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/04/hungary-odf-national-standard/ > | Jun 04 12:47 |
schestowitz | Wealth --> Expensive | Jun 04 12:47 |
schestowitz | War --> peace | Jun 04 12:47 |
schestowitz | Choice --> fragmentation | Jun 04 12:48 |
MinceR | War is Peace | Jun 04 12:48 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: Did you see the vid I posted yesterday? | Jun 04 12:48 |
MinceR | Freedom is Slavery | Jun 04 12:48 |
schestowitz | MinceR: peace of mind to some | Jun 04 12:48 |
MinceR | Ignorance is Strength | Jun 04 12:48 |
DaemonFC | The one about the super wealthy old people that were abusing the Medicare system | Jun 04 12:48 |
schestowitz | Like Blackwater | Jun 04 12:48 |
schestowitz | The checkout goes ka-shing | Jun 04 12:48 |
schestowitz | Peace of mind to blackwater investors when there is war | Jun 04 12:48 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: which one? | Jun 04 12:48 |
DaemonFC | they were living in "retirement communities" in $500,000 houses | Jun 04 12:49 |
DaemonFC | and going to the doctor and getting meds | Jun 04 12:49 |
DaemonFC | on my tax dollars | Jun 04 12:49 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: I watched the beginning | Jun 04 12:49 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: post it again. | Jun 04 12:49 |
DaemonFC | it's pretty sick | Jun 04 12:49 |
schestowitz | I'll make an ogg and include it | Jun 04 12:49 |
DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dEA-S6QtKA | Jun 04 12:50 |
DaemonFC | these aren't poor old people that are eating cat food to pay rent | Jun 04 12:50 |
schestowitz | Ballmer Says Tax Would Move Microsoft Jobs Offshore http://americandaily.com/index.php/article/1488 | Jun 04 12:52 |
*mib_90mkfi (i=443ecfcd@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f7fbc7aade98ffe1) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 12:52 | |
schestowitz | Gates stumps for charity while Ballmer threatens Obama http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2009/06/microsoft-corp-founder-bill-gates-today-renewed-his-appeal-to-the-worlds-billionaires-to-give-up-their-fortunes-to-charit.html | Jun 04 12:52 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: I wish someone in our government would grow some balls and fight the globalizations and offshoring | Jun 04 12:57 |
*mib_90mkfi has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | Jun 04 12:57 | |
DaemonFC | we ought to charge a 200% tariff on anything we can make here | Jun 04 12:57 |
DaemonFC | period | Jun 04 12:57 |
DaemonFC | end of story | Jun 04 12:57 |
MinceR | yay for half-baked ideas :> | Jun 04 12:58 |
MinceR | though that would be an overstatement | Jun 04 12:59 |
fewa | MinceR, what are you referring to? | Jun 04 12:59 |
MinceR | what DaemonFC said | Jun 04 12:59 |
fewa | ahh i had him ignored | Jun 04 12:59 |
DaemonFC | yeah, all the greedy foreigners who want to snipe our jobs would hate it | Jun 04 12:59 |
DaemonFC | you're right | Jun 04 12:59 |
MinceR | fewa: you're a happy person then | Jun 04 13:00 |
fewa | i ignore trollers | Jun 04 13:00 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: it isn't only about jobs, it's also about commerce | Jun 04 13:00 |
DaemonFC | MinceR: Go frolic naked in the forest through hippy land and be happy with him | Jun 04 13:00 |
DaemonFC | yes? | Jun 04 13:00 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: go fuck yourself | Jun 04 13:01 |
*schestowitz makes off from fraud visd | Jun 04 13:01 | |
schestowitz | *vid | Jun 04 13:01 |
schestowitz | *ogg | Jun 04 13:01 |
MinceR | it would be nice to have a script that's like ignore except it doesn't remove ignored lines, only shades them and keeps them from triggering activity notifications | Jun 04 13:01 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: oh, and after introducing that tariff, try to sell your shit in countries whose economy you've just penalized and be _very_ surprised when they do the same toy ou | Jun 04 13:02 |
MinceR | idiot | Jun 04 13:02 |
DaemonFC | who cares | Jun 04 13:02 |
DaemonFC | they don't buy anything from us | Jun 04 13:03 |
DaemonFC | that's the point | Jun 04 13:03 |
MinceR | also, try to get goods you can manufacture but can't manufacture in high enough amounts | Jun 04 13:03 |
DaemonFC | MinceR: Take China for example, the only thing they buy from us are raw materials, which they immediately make something out of and sell right back to us | Jun 04 13:04 |
DaemonFC | good riddance | Jun 04 13:04 |
MinceR | then try buying non-chinese versions of the same stuff | Jun 04 13:05 |
DaemonFC | good luck | Jun 04 13:05 |
MinceR | exactly | Jun 04 13:05 |
DaemonFC | if you don't want a stereo, television, toaster, refigerator, bedsheets, curtains, microwave, clothing, or the materials that build a house in the first place | Jun 04 13:06 |
DaemonFC | you may be able to avoid it | Jun 04 13:06 |
MinceR | your idea would mean a 200% markup on those things | Jun 04 13:06 |
DaemonFC | plus a bunch of other stuff I don't have time to list | Jun 04 13:07 |
DaemonFC | no it wouldn't | Jun 04 13:07 |
DaemonFC | we could make all of that | Jun 04 13:07 |
MinceR | sure you could | Jun 04 13:07 |
MinceR | just not at the same price | Jun 04 13:07 |
DaemonFC | so? | Jun 04 13:07 |
MinceR | and you currently don't have the capacity to do it | Jun 04 13:07 |
MinceR | and demand being far above supply means high prices | Jun 04 13:07 |
DaemonFC | which is better, a 20, 30, or 40% unemployment rate | Jun 04 13:07 |
DaemonFC | or the prices of goods going up perhaps 10-20%? | Jun 04 13:08 |
MinceR | perhaps 10-20%? | Jun 04 13:08 |
DaemonFC | yeah | Jun 04 13:08 |
MinceR | you're seeing the world in pink | Jun 04 13:08 |
DaemonFC | the prices of goods doesn't go down much | Jun 04 13:08 |
DaemonFC | when you have them imported | Jun 04 13:08 |
DaemonFC | just means that the company pockets what the American worker would have made | Jun 04 13:08 |
*_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | Jun 04 13:09 | |
DaemonFC | all outsourcing leads to is exploitation of Chinese workers and Americans without jobs | Jun 04 13:09 |
DaemonFC | to benefit the rich big wigs at companies like Walmart | Jun 04 13:09 |
schestowitz | It's a good video | Jun 04 13:09 |
schestowitz | It might annoy some older readers, though | Jun 04 13:09 |
schestowitz | Pensions are already fried anyway | Jun 04 13:10 |
schestowitz | k401 | Jun 04 13:10 |
schestowitz | 401k | Jun 04 13:10 |
schestowitz | Ponzo401 | Jun 04 13:10 |
schestowitz | Paper money | Jun 04 13:10 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: I pulled all of mine when I guessed what was about to happen | Jun 04 13:10 |
DaemonFC | I about took a bath | Jun 04 13:10 |
schestowitz | Coupons from your mummy might be more truthworthy | Jun 04 13:10 |
DaemonFC | the AARP is like an RIAA representing old people | Jun 04 13:12 |
DaemonFC | if anyone threatens to cut the welfare gravy train for old people that are already rich, they get together and vote them out of office | Jun 04 13:12 |
MinceR | i wonder why they outsource then... perhaps because the chinese are willing to work for less? :> | Jun 04 13:13 |
DaemonFC | basically yes, but the price of goods here does not go down | Jun 04 13:14 |
DaemonFC | just means that Walmart pockets the difference | Jun 04 13:14 |
DaemonFC | so normal Americans don't benefit from this, and a lot of us lose our job because of it | Jun 04 13:14 |
DaemonFC | so more money can go to management types | Jun 04 13:14 |
DaemonFC | Steve Ballmer isn't really all that bad compared to Walmart | Jun 04 13:15 |
MinceR | i wouldn't expect anything else from the guy who has a poster of ballmer in his bedroom | Jun 04 13:15 |
DaemonFC | he has the power to put maybe 20,000 Americans out of work compared to the 5-6 million Walmart already has | Jun 04 13:15 |
MinceR | "equally evil" bullshit | Jun 04 13:15 |
DaemonFC | compared to Walmart, Ballmer is a choir boy | Jun 04 13:16 |
DaemonFC | of course Microsoft is shitting themselves over Linux, but Linux is actually, overall a good thing for America because it means that there's less money going to Microsoft and more money for businesses to invest in themselves and expand | Jun 04 13:17 |
DaemonFC | which means hiring more people that Microsoft ends up shedding off their payroll | Jun 04 13:17 |
DaemonFC | I'd imagine that there would be 2-3 jobs created for every 1 lost if Linux pushed Windows out of the picture | Jun 04 13:18 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: The video rental machine blue screened on my earlier | Jun 04 13:19 |
DaemonFC | as it was going down I saw that it was running Windows XP Embedded | Jun 04 13:19 |
DaemonFC | *me | Jun 04 13:19 |
DaemonFC | kind of wish I had had my camera on me | Jun 04 13:20 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: ON you? | Jun 04 13:21 |
schestowitz | Or when you came to ot/ | Jun 04 13:22 |
schestowitz | Some parking meters too | Jun 04 13:22 |
schestowitz | And ATMs | Jun 04 13:22 |
DaemonFC | I clicked to put a DVD in my "cart" and blue screen | Jun 04 13:22 |
schestowitz | Well | Jun 04 13:22 |
DaemonFC | then it flickered and I saw the XP log on prompt | Jun 04 13:22 |
schestowitz | Maybe there were blue movies in there | Jun 04 13:22 |
DaemonFC | then it told me the machine was out of service | Jun 04 13:22 |
schestowitz | So it Blued on you | Jun 04 13:22 |
schestowitz | Ahhh... | Jun 04 13:23 |
schestowitz | yes, I know | Jun 04 13:23 |
schestowitz | Error 0x000fef12: " machine was out of service" | Jun 04 13:23 |
schestowitz | With blue bg | Jun 04 13:23 |
DaemonFC | no | Jun 04 13:23 |
DaemonFC | it was some custom screen for that kiosk | Jun 04 13:23 |
DaemonFC | red | Jun 04 13:23 |
DaemonFC | with a power icon in the back | Jun 04 13:24 |
*tacone (i=97530443@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6d506c974ea3395b) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 13:24 | |
schestowitz | Do you also have a power icon in the back? | Jun 04 13:29 |
schestowitz | I'd use it to disable you when you aggravate | Jun 04 13:29 |
*tacone has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | Jun 04 13:30 | |
oiaohm | DaemonFC: tax law over there can you write off software as a asset DaemonFC. | Jun 04 13:40 |
oiaohm | if you can here it really does not make any difference for the companies either way. But it does for the tax man. | Jun 04 13:40 |
DaemonFC | Yes I know you can | Jun 04 13:44 |
DaemonFC | I claimed $14 for Vista and $14 for Office 2007 | Jun 04 13:44 |
*Eruaran has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Jun 04 13:44 | |
oiaohm | Deprecate 100 percent? | Jun 04 13:45 |
DaemonFC | student licenses | Jun 04 13:45 |
oiaohm | Most countries you cannot claim 100 percent on support contracts. | Jun 04 13:45 |
oiaohm | So Linux means more tax income. | Jun 04 13:45 |
*Eruaran (n=quassel@183.110.208.203.cable.dyn.gex.ncable.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 13:46 | |
oiaohm | Major reason for businesses going Linux is saving from less down time. | Jun 04 13:46 |
DaemonFC | not necessarily | Jun 04 13:46 |
schestowitz | Is Steve Ballmer Blackmailing Obama? < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/04/ballmer-blackmails-obama/ > | Jun 04 13:46 |
DaemonFC | if I bought a Linux box set for school I could declare it | Jun 04 13:46 |
oiaohm | Here we cannot claim the support contract bit. | Jun 04 13:47 |
oiaohm | Since MS OEM software comes with no support contract you can claim 100 percent of it. | Jun 04 13:48 |
oiaohm | Yes suxs. | Jun 04 13:48 |
oiaohm | Also on adverage Linux box sets are cheeper than windows ones. | Jun 04 13:48 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: Want to know something bizarre? | Jun 04 13:48 |
DaemonFC | When I encode to AAC with Long Term Predictor enabled, the only thing I have that can decode it properly is Windows Media Player with ffdshow | Jun 04 13:49 |
DaemonFC | not even VLC quite knows what to make of it | Jun 04 13:49 |
DaemonFC | it plays but the slider is broken | Jun 04 13:49 |
DaemonFC | if I only use backwards linear prediction, none of my players have a problem | Jun 04 13:51 |
oiaohm | What version vlc. | Jun 04 13:54 |
oiaohm | Because that is a straight glitch. | Jun 04 13:55 |
DaemonFC | 0.9.9 | Jun 04 13:55 |
DaemonFC | errr 0.99 or you know | Jun 04 13:55 |
*satipera (i=4e9633eb@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c15ec511439507ba) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 13:55 | |
DaemonFC | the current release version | Jun 04 13:55 |
*satipera has quit (Client Quit) | Jun 04 13:57 | |
*satipera (i=4e9633eb@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-526f37d0c50c75a6) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 13:57 | |
*jbartosik (n=joszi@aatm15.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 14:00 | |
oiaohm | Bug report it of course DaemonFC because that should not be happening. | Jun 04 14:00 |
oiaohm | Long Term Predictor is a bandwidth leveler. | Jun 04 14:01 |
DaemonFC | I've noticed it seeks normally if I have Long Term Prediction on but don't use temporal noise shaping | Jun 04 14:01 |
DaemonFC | I just tried it that way | Jun 04 14:01 |
DaemonFC | but that's still a bug | Jun 04 14:02 |
DaemonFC | Winamp can't seem to play this file at all | Jun 04 14:02 |
DaemonFC | :P | Jun 04 14:02 |
DaemonFC | it looks like they both only fully support Low Complexity AAC | Jun 04 14:02 |
*satipera has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | Jun 04 14:06 | |
schestowitz | OpenSUSE person: http://jamesthevicar.com/blog/?post=20090604_govote "Vote Liberal Democrat today. " | Jun 04 14:13 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: US raygun jumbo jet now firing live blasts in flight < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/04/abl_first_flight_blasts/ > | Jun 04 14:18 |
schestowitz | armament of civilian planes | Jun 04 14:18 |
DaemonFC | that's not a civilian plane | Jun 04 14:19 |
schestowitz | With the coming bankruptcy of many more airline[r]s maybe they'll just turn those Boeings to massive B52s | Jun 04 14:19 |
DaemonFC | the laser is so heavy that it takes a 747 to carry it | Jun 04 14:19 |
schestowitz | You know, "for national security" | Jun 04 14:19 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: It can fire the laser at enemy fighters while it is still out of their range | Jun 04 14:20 |
schestowitz | What sickens me is gloficiation of weapons | Jun 04 14:20 |
schestowitz | It seems to be big in the likes of Fox | Jun 04 14:20 |
DaemonFC | it is overkill | Jun 04 14:20 |
schestowitz | They see round-shaped designs of death machines | Jun 04 14:20 |
DaemonFC | our F-35 is much better than even its closest rival | Jun 04 14:21 |
schestowitz | And they think of power and pride rather than a kid blown to pieces for him mother to pick | Jun 04 14:21 |
oiaohm | Retro fit them into Australian AWACS wedgetails we could use a few more. | Jun 04 14:21 |
DaemonFC | why do we need 747's with lasers? | Jun 04 14:21 |
DaemonFC | :P | Jun 04 14:21 |
schestowitz | There's a disconnect between what they show people and what happens | Jun 04 14:21 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: China | Jun 04 14:22 |
schestowitz | Fear of military inferiority | Jun 04 14:22 |
DaemonFC | the stealth, targeting system, and armament on the F-35 is good enough that I feel sorry for any Mig pilots who decide they're not our friends | Jun 04 14:22 |
DaemonFC | no, it can easily shoot down a Mig before they even see it on their radar | Jun 04 14:22 |
DaemonFC | much less are in their weapons range | Jun 04 14:22 |
oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_YAL-1 << I guess schestowitz is talking about these. | Jun 04 14:23 |
oiaohm | Anti missile. | Jun 04 14:23 |
DaemonFC | I think the idea of the laser is that the enemy fighters will start blowing up before they're even aware that they are under attack | Jun 04 14:23 |
DaemonFC | element of surprise | Jun 04 14:23 |
DaemonFC | everything is fine one second then the next second your squadron leader blows up | Jun 04 14:24 |
oiaohm | Speed of targeting could be too slow for fighters changing path. | Jun 04 14:24 |
DaemonFC | and while you're trying to figure out what's going on, another of your wingmen blows up | Jun 04 14:24 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 04 14:24 |
DaemonFC | by that time the surviving planes are either retreating or being engaged by F-35s | Jun 04 14:25 |
schestowitz | DNA Database Breached in New Zealand < http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/06/dna-database-breached-in-new-zealand.html > | Jun 04 14:26 |
DaemonFC | it can shoot down ICBMs is its main purpose | Jun 04 14:27 |
DaemonFC | but surpise attack on enemy fighters is also possible | Jun 04 14:27 |
oiaohm | Combin that with an australian awacs and you do have a nasty weapon.. | Jun 04 14:27 |
DaemonFC | North Korea is about done for | Jun 04 14:28 |
DaemonFC | at least in its current state | Jun 04 14:28 |
DaemonFC | they know it, that's why they're becoming more belligerant | Jun 04 14:28 |
DaemonFC | the French revolted when they were far better off than the North Koreans | Jun 04 14:29 |
DaemonFC | North Korea is about to have sanctions imposed on it even by their allies | Jun 04 14:30 |
schestowitz | “The Failure of Science”: New paper makes a damning case against genetically modified food crops http://www.ethicurean.com/2009/06/03/lotter-gmopaper/ | Jun 04 14:32 |
DaemonFC | fucking hippies | Jun 04 14:32 |
DaemonFC | they need to have a hippie/Christian alliance against all of science | Jun 04 14:32 |
*zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@117.199.137.34) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 14:32 | |
schestowitz | Photo censorship vs. digital photography http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/dwallach/photo-censorship-vs-digital-photography | Jun 04 14:33 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: I seem to have figured out roughly what I'm doing with AAC | Jun 04 14:38 |
DaemonFC | the documentation for encoding with it is bad to non-existent | Jun 04 14:38 |
schestowitz | banking system: It’s Finished < http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n10/lanc01_.html > | Jun 04 14:39 |
DaemonFC | but it seems like quality 250% is a noninal bitrate of around 192k | Jun 04 14:39 |
DaemonFC | just from watching the packet info from playing it back in VLC | Jun 04 14:39 |
oiaohm | Lot of things are not well documented in the media world. | Jun 04 14:40 |
DaemonFC | I'm trying to play around with it to find transparency | Jun 04 14:40 |
DaemonFC | which is not easy to do | Jun 04 14:41 |
DaemonFC | I'm gravitating toward VBR quality of 250% | Jun 04 14:41 |
DaemonFC | you keep thinking you've found it then you come across a problem sample | Jun 04 14:41 |
DaemonFC | a difference of just 1 MB aq file could mean the difference of 70 albums on an 8 gig portable device | Jun 04 14:43 |
DaemonFC | so it's worth nitpicking | Jun 04 14:43 |
schestowitz | French Internet activists launch VPN to foil Three Strikes < http://www.p2p-blog.com/item-1066.html > | Jun 04 14:44 |
DaemonFC | I never go lossy unless I have the source | Jun 04 14:45 |
DaemonFC | I don't feel like getting caught with my pants down when new formats happen :) | Jun 04 14:45 |
schestowitz | Repost: Interview with a 1989 Demonstrator < http://www.pekingduck.org/2009/06/repost-interview-with-a-1989-demonstrator/ > Not run over by tanks.. | Jun 04 14:46 |
*zer0c00l has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Jun 04 14:47 | |
schestowitz | Yuck. Google has a Europe lobbying blog http://googlepolicyeurope.blogspot.com/2009/06/europe-needs-fifth-freedom.html Lobbying should be BANNED, not publicised. | Jun 04 14:52 |
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jun 04 14:53 | |
schestowitz | Temple timbers trace collapse of Mayan culture < http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227104.400-temple-timbers-trace-collapse-of-mayan-culture.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news > | Jun 04 14:54 |
fewa | geeze WTF | Jun 04 14:56 |
fewa | Jun 04 14:57 | |
fewa | arrogence | Jun 04 14:57 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: I told you the video woild upset some people | Jun 04 14:58 |
schestowitz | Just got this by E-mail: | Jun 04 14:58 |
schestowitz | "What on earth does the following propaganda video have to do with ODF or | Jun 04 14:58 |
schestowitz | anything else on the page? | Jun 04 14:58 |
schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/04/ballmer-blackmails-obama/ | Jun 04 14:58 |
schestowitz | "One reader, DaemonFC, has suggested that we share the | Jun 04 14:58 |
schestowitz | following video, from which we produced an Ogg version | Jun 04 14:58 |
schestowitz | too. "" | Jun 04 14:58 |
schestowitz | Globby would go nicely with the Chrome colour palette | Jun 04 14:59 |
fewa | schestowitz, you can put the ogg link inside a <video> element to magically embed it | Jun 04 14:59 |
fewa | and then have the link _inside_ the <video> element as a fallback | Jun 04 14:59 |
DaemonFC | heh | Jun 04 15:01 |
schestowitz | I do both | Jun 04 15:01 |
schestowitz | Oh, I see. | Jun 04 15:02 |
fewa | <video src=/videos/retirement-us.ogg><a title="View Ogg Theora version" href="/videos/retirement-us.ogg"><img alt="Ogg Theora" src="http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/ogg-128x128.png"/></a></video> | Jun 04 15:02 |
schestowitz | I know what you mean now | Jun 04 15:02 |
schestowitz | yeah | Jun 04 15:02 |
schestowitz | But.. | Jun 04 15:02 |
*zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@117.199.140.102) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 15:02 | |
schestowitz | I guess for those who want to download it this might be helpful | Jun 04 15:02 |
fewa | it wont autoplay without "autoplay" | Jun 04 15:02 |
schestowitz | Also, it tells people to get a Web browser with ogg sipport | Jun 04 15:02 |
fewa | or for xhtml autoplay=autoplay | Jun 04 15:02 |
schestowitz | AUtoplay is bad | Jun 04 15:03 |
schestowitz | It means people land on pages with noise | Jun 04 15:03 |
fewa | yes it is | Jun 04 15:03 |
fewa | very bad | Jun 04 15:03 |
schestowitz | Even YouTube won't autoplay unless you open jsut the vid | Jun 04 15:03 |
fewa | yeah it does | Jun 04 15:03 |
fewa | i have a add on that makes it not autoplay | Jun 04 15:03 |
schestowitz | Oh CRAP | Jun 04 15:04 |
schestowitz | Intel to acquire Wind River for $884 Million < http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9133945&source=rss_news > | Jun 04 15:04 |
schestowitz | So WInd River is now part of a criminal organisation | Jun 04 15:05 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: State governments can't give health insurance and food stamp benefits to needy children because they're too busy throwing billions of dollars on wealthy seniors who don't even need the help | Jun 04 15:05 |
DaemonFC | I just find that so disgusting | Jun 04 15:05 |
DaemonFC | it's like my grandmother, takes in over $50,000 a year before she even works, and probably about $70,000 or so after you consider that she's working 10-12 hours a week | Jun 04 15:07 |
fewa | ah the <video> didnt work cause i have noscript | Jun 04 15:07 |
DaemonFC | she just traded in a perfectly good Buick so she can have a Cadillac | Jun 04 15:07 |
DaemonFC | and she gets Medicare | Jun 04 15:07 |
fewa | and firefox implaments alot of html with javascript | Jun 04 15:07 |
DaemonFC | I think I was just born about 2 generations too late | Jun 04 15:11 |
DaemonFC | my grandparents generation decided to help themselves to my generation's share of the pie | Jun 04 15:11 |
schestowitz | Wind River Acquired by Convicted Criminal Organisation http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/04/wind-river-acquired-by-intel/ | Jun 04 15:26 |
*mtnd3w has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jun 04 15:28 | |
zer0c00l | lol | Jun 04 15:28 |
zer0c00l | *convicted criminal org | Jun 04 15:28 |
*mtnd3w (n=mtnd3w@cpe-74-65-216-135.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 15:28 | |
schestowitz | bbl | Jun 04 15:29 |
DaemonFC | Wind River makes VXWorks | Jun 04 15:47 |
DaemonFC | whoa | Jun 04 15:47 |
DaemonFC | this track has FAAC going bat shit crazy | Jun 04 15:47 |
DaemonFC | LAME MP3 could never keep up with this | Jun 04 15:47 |
DaemonFC | FAAC's VBR algorithm is much more responsive/capable than Vorbis | Jun 04 15:49 |
DaemonFC | I wonder if they could port it over | Jun 04 15:49 |
*mib_6v4ybm (i=c7c582d8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-19295c703ef3e4fe) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 15:49 | |
*mib_6v4ybm has quit (Client Quit) | Jun 04 15:49 | |
DaemonFC | lmao | Jun 04 15:50 |
DaemonFC | I said bat shit crazy and then that term was actually in the lyrics | Jun 04 15:51 |
DaemonFC | :P | Jun 04 15:51 |
*zer0c00l has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jun 04 16:02 | |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: Whatever the VLC bug is it's gone in today's 1.0 branch build | Jun 04 16:12 |
DaemonFC | so whatever it is has been fixed and will most likely be in 1.0 | Jun 04 16:14 |
Balrog | DaemonFC: when will 1.0 be out? There's a nasty bug in the Dirac/Schroedinger decoder | Jun 04 16:45 |
DaemonFC | well, it's gotta be close | Jun 04 16:45 |
DaemonFC | they've been doing 1.0 branch builds for over a month | Jun 04 16:46 |
DaemonFC | they've been doing 1.1 trunk builds alongside the daily 1.0 branch | Jun 04 16:46 |
DaemonFC | I really like FAAC now that I've learned it through trial and error | Jun 04 16:48 |
DaemonFC | when I say they have almost no documentation, I mean just that | Jun 04 16:48 |
DaemonFC | their site is basically a dumping ground for source code with no manual or anything | Jun 04 16:48 |
DaemonFC | its Wikipedia information consists of ONE line, MENTIONING it on the main AAC page | Jun 04 16:49 |
DaemonFC | this has to be the most poorly documented open source program I've ever come across | Jun 04 16:53 |
DaemonFC | it's awesome and yet there's NO documentation on it | Jun 04 16:53 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: http://www.bing.com/news?FORM=ZZLH8 | Jun 04 16:54 |
DaemonFC | Bing has decided to take on Google News as well | Jun 04 16:54 |
DaemonFC | Bing will munch the internetz | Jun 04 16:55 |
DaemonFC | Bing will eat Balrog and rename him IronBalrog and integrate him into .Net | Jun 04 16:55 |
DaemonFC | :P | Jun 04 16:55 |
DaemonFC | the Top News pane is a "web slice" | Jun 04 16:57 |
DaemonFC | you can integrate it into your Internet Explorer Favorites bar | Jun 04 16:57 |
DaemonFC | at least Microsoft has finally gotten over the push content idea | Jun 04 16:58 |
DaemonFC | Bing also appears to be valid XHTML | Jun 04 17:00 |
DaemonFC | according to the validation page at w3.org | Jun 04 17:00 |
DaemonFC | hmmm, spoke too soon | Jun 04 17:01 |
DaemonFC | the news page I was on validated but their front page has 12 errors | Jun 04 17:01 |
DaemonFC | which are all actually minor | Jun 04 17:01 |
DaemonFC | http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31103610/ | Jun 04 17:05 |
DaemonFC | No charges in beating of man in child-rape case | Jun 04 17:05 |
DaemonFC | heh, they should give them all a medal | Jun 04 17:05 |
*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 17:10 | |
*PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving") | Jun 04 17:17 | |
*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 17:17 | |
DaemonFC | I wonder if most AAC players know what Variable Bitrate is | Jun 04 17:26 |
DaemonFC | or if they all just assume you used a braindead encoder like iTunes | Jun 04 17:26 |
DaemonFC | guess I'll find out when it gets here | Jun 04 17:26 |
DaemonFC | it also seems to support a wasted bits feature like FLAC | Jun 04 17:31 |
DaemonFC | it can use 1 bit to encode a chunk of noise/randomness where mp3 can only drop to 32k | Jun 04 17:32 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 04 17:32 |
schestowitz | === | Jun 04 17:34 |
schestowitz | guess, but medicare is far, far too political a topic to help *any* | Jun 04 17:34 |
schestowitz | group. Personally, I'd stay away from pure non-tech politics like that. | Jun 04 17:34 |
schestowitz | It can't help the credibility of the rest of the BN site. | Jun 04 17:34 |
schestowitz | -Lars | Jun 04 17:34 |
schestowitz | * I haven't followed medicare in detail. The AMA has even more | Jun 04 17:34 |
schestowitz | political clout than the NRA and has been able to keep the last 25 years | Jun 04 17:34 |
schestowitz | of elections from addressing universal health care. You notice that | Jun 04 17:34 |
schestowitz | some election years it gets as far as 'universal insurance' before dying. | Jun 04 17:34 |
schestowitz | == | Jun 04 17:34 |
schestowitz | see? | Jun 04 17:34 |
DaemonFC | yeah | Jun 04 17:36 |
DaemonFC | that last bit was exactly right | Jun 04 17:36 |
DaemonFC | EXACTLY right | Jun 04 17:36 |
DaemonFC | Hillary Clinton had a plan that Bill was going to press congress for | Jun 04 17:36 |
DaemonFC | but the drug and insurance cartels started running attack ads | Jun 04 17:36 |
DaemonFC | to convince the public it was a bad thing | Jun 04 17:37 |
DaemonFC | and spend millions lobbying Congress to shoot the plan down before it ever even got seriously considered | Jun 04 17:37 |
DaemonFC | this was back in 1993 | Jun 04 17:37 |
DaemonFC | I refuse to call pharma or insurance "industries" | Jun 04 17:38 |
DaemonFC | they are cartels | Jun 04 17:38 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: I believe that said industries violate both the Sherman Act of 1890 and the RICO Act of 1970 | Jun 04 17:40 |
DaemonFC | but they have enough money that the law doesn't apply to them | Jun 04 17:40 |
DaemonFC | pretty much like Microsoft, Apple, the RIAA/MPAA....... | Jun 04 17:42 |
DaemonFC | it's all pay to play | Jun 04 17:42 |
DaemonFC | they can accuse Obama of "Chicago Politics", but really that's how it is everywhere | Jun 04 17:43 |
DaemonFC | pretty much every member of Congresss has been bought | Jun 04 17:43 |
*mib_0m1zwx (i=5b94664c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1553b1dd75264479) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 17:43 | |
*mib_0m1zwx has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | Jun 04 17:49 | |
schestowitz | Linux gets the (fast) boot: The holy grail of 100% uptime is a little bit closer < http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/06/02/the-holy-grail-of-100-uptime-is-a-little-bit-closer/ > | Jun 04 17:51 |
schestowitz | Linux gets luv from JavaFX : http://www.h-online.com/open/JavaFX-1-2-arrives-now-running-on-Linux-and-Solaris--/news/113433 | Jun 04 17:52 |
fewa | sweet my sheevaplug just arrived | Jun 04 17:53 |
*neighborlee (n=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 17:56 | |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: They need to integrate Ksplice into the kernel | Jun 04 17:57 |
DaemonFC | then you'll be a lot closer to that goal | Jun 04 17:57 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 04 17:58 |
DaemonFC | ohhh, the portable player I got apparently has an Nvidia GPU in it | Jun 04 17:59 |
DaemonFC | I hope Rockbox works on it | Jun 04 18:00 |
DaemonFC | I'll have DOOM on my MP3 player | Jun 04 18:00 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 04 18:00 |
schestowitz | It though it was integrated | Jun 04 18:00 |
schestowitz | Like kvm | Jun 04 18:00 |
schestowitz | Both Red Hat's IIRC | Jun 04 18:01 |
schestowitz | Doom sucks now | Jun 04 18:01 |
schestowitz | Even the Internet is more fun | Jun 04 18:01 |
*schestowitz has some doom exe somewhere | Jun 04 18:01 | |
DaemonFC | yeah, but it's DOOM!!!! | Jun 04 18:02 |
DaemonFC | On an MP3 player!!! | Jun 04 18:02 |
kentma | doom was wonderful, once... I spent many a happy hour hosting doom parties :-) | Jun 04 18:02 |
DaemonFC | How can you not like the two geekiest things ever in one? | Jun 04 18:02 |
kentma | I have around 7,000 wads still on the nwserv | Jun 04 18:02 |
DaemonFC | I had DOOM for DOS | Jun 04 18:02 |
kentma | just no running dos machines to play them any more :-) | Jun 04 18:02 |
DaemonFC | it called itself the DOOM Operating System | Jun 04 18:02 |
DaemonFC | cause of all the DOS extenders it had to use | Jun 04 18:03 |
DaemonFC | there's DOOM 95 | Jun 04 18:03 |
DaemonFC | that still runs on Vista | Jun 04 18:03 |
kentma | I had doom running on drdos, msdos and freedos at various times, the main thing was needing the ipx network to host the game(s). | Jun 04 18:03 |
DaemonFC | and there's the various open source engines like PRBOOM on Linux that can use DOOM WADs | Jun 04 18:03 |
DaemonFC | so yeah, still runs | Jun 04 18:03 |
DaemonFC | Linux supports IPX | Jun 04 18:04 |
kentma | prboom was good, too, but I preferred another one which had "extensions". | Jun 04 18:04 |
DaemonFC | Windows doesn't as of Vista | Jun 04 18:04 |
kentma | DaemonFC: I know, I used to host the network with nwserv running on a linux server. | Jun 04 18:04 |
DaemonFC | XP does | Jun 04 18:04 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft took the opportunity to gut a lot of legacy crap that nothing uses anymore | Jun 04 18:05 |
DaemonFC | Windows 7 finally gets rid of the MS Agent support | Jun 04 18:05 |
DaemonFC | :P | Jun 04 18:05 |
kentma | I had a massive stack of scripts created to set up multi-player games based on the dos directories the wads were stored in and so on. I never developed the enthusiasm to re-create the same thing on linux machines. | Jun 04 18:05 |
DaemonFC | IE 8 can no longer use gopher | Jun 04 18:06 |
kentma | afairc, I even had a self-modifying autoexec or config.sys or both, so that different extenders and drivers could be loaded :-) | Jun 04 18:06 |
kentma | DaemonFC: no more gopher? disaster! | Jun 04 18:06 |
DaemonFC | they disabled it in IE 6 with XP SP2 | Jun 04 18:06 |
schestowitz | We're quoted a lot here: http://innerphaze.homelinux.com/blog/?p=769 | Jun 04 18:06 |
DaemonFC | but a registry tweak could re-enable it | Jun 04 18:06 |
kentma | My first web experience was lynx as a gopher menu item :-) | Jun 04 18:06 |
DaemonFC | IE 8 removes the code for it | Jun 04 18:06 |
neighborlee | DaemonFC, and that was taking up precoius resources, thereby BOGging down ones system horrifically ;) | Jun 04 18:07 |
kentma | there were only a couple of gopher servers still going last time I checked. | Jun 04 18:07 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, ive yet to see the verification on fspot on rehdat list..time will tell ;0-- | Jun 04 18:07 |
DaemonFC | well, their reasoning was it was a bit of code that could potentially have a security bug or two that nothing ever uses anymore | Jun 04 18:07 |
DaemonFC | so in the name of cleaning up the "low hanging fruit" | Jun 04 18:07 |
kentma | wierd claim. | Jun 04 18:08 |
DaemonFC | they stripped out the channel band in IE 7 | Jun 04 18:08 |
DaemonFC | you remember that Active Desktop chaqnnel band full of advertising in Windows 98? | Jun 04 18:08 |
DaemonFC | IE 6 on XP still supported the channel band, but it had no content in it | Jun 04 18:09 |
DaemonFC | iexplore -channelband would still load it, blank | Jun 04 18:09 |
kentma | :-) | Jun 04 18:10 |
DaemonFC | there were a startling number of obvious security holes left open by crap that never should have been there and wasn't even used any more | Jun 04 18:10 |
Balrog | kentma: the next version of firefox after 3.5 will drop gopher | Jun 04 18:11 |
DaemonFC | one of the things you'll notice is that with Windows 95 with Desktop Update, you gained the ability to browse the web through any Windows Explorer window | Jun 04 18:11 |
Balrog | you'll have to install an extension | Jun 04 18:11 |
kentma | Balrog: ah, that's just terrible :-) | Jun 04 18:11 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft finally put an end to that stupidity with IE 7 | Jun 04 18:11 |
kentma | i wonder if everything in FF should be an extension? | Jun 04 18:12 |
DaemonFC | there's still plenty that IE 8 does that I don't like, but it's nowhere near as horrible as IE 6 | Jun 04 18:12 |
DaemonFC | they've at least gotten rid of the most obvious security hazards | Jun 04 18:12 |
DaemonFC | it's now a separate application and not part of the actual shell | Jun 04 18:13 |
kentma | DaemonFC: To be honest, I don't much care - I'd never use it outside of a corporate space, because anything MS will never be secure anyway. I doubt many corporates will even consider IE8 - why take the risk? | Jun 04 18:13 |
kentma | I find IE loathsome to use, for that matter, too. | Jun 04 18:13 |
DaemonFC | if they insist on IE, IE 8 is a much better way to go than sticking to IE 6 | Jun 04 18:13 |
kentma | DaemonFC: known risk to unkown risk? | Jun 04 18:14 |
DaemonFC | not really | Jun 04 18:14 |
DaemonFC | more like obvious suicide to who knows | Jun 04 18:14 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 04 18:14 |
DaemonFC | IE 6 is trivial to exploit | Jun 04 18:15 |
kentma | I'm a great believer in btdyn, which interestingly, is one reason why so many people still use MS at all. | Jun 04 18:15 |
kentma | DaemonFC: then switch to ff. | Jun 04 18:15 |
DaemonFC | there have been security bugs in IE 7 and 8, but nothing like IE 6 | Jun 04 18:15 |
DaemonFC | so I really have no idea why anyone could justify using IE 6 | Jun 04 18:15 |
DaemonFC | or even having it installed | Jun 04 18:15 |
kentma | DaemonFC: okay, but then the problem is IE, so stop using MS products, use ff. Although I did notice recently that MS have deliberately tried to damage the security of Firefox of late by adding nasty extensions to it. | Jun 04 18:16 |
DaemonFC | yes, those extensions are actually more hazardous in Firefox than they are in IE | Jun 04 18:16 |
DaemonFC | and Microsoft had no right to do that | Jun 04 18:16 |
kentma | MS never worry about whether they have the right - they do it and then go to court later, hopefully having the Judge replaced if it doesn't go well. | Jun 04 18:17 |
DaemonFC | if something attacks a security bug in .Net through IE, they have the same restricted access to the system IE has, but in Firefox they have the permissions of whoever is logged in | Jun 04 18:17 |
DaemonFC | not good either way, but definitely scarier in Firefox | Jun 04 18:18 |
kentma | DaemonFC: but nobody would be other than user running FF, anyway? Ah, no, I forgot, it's windows - everyone is an admin in windows, which is one reason why it's so insecure anway. | Jun 04 18:18 |
Balrog | but why does MS have to secretly inject code into FF? | Jun 04 18:18 |
DaemonFC | no | Jun 04 18:18 |
kentma | I come back to my point - if you want security, avoid Microsoft. | Jun 04 18:18 |
DaemonFC | I'm a standard user with an administrator elevation token | Jun 04 18:18 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 04 18:19 |
DaemonFC | and IE uses that token to restrict itself to Low Integrity access | Jun 04 18:19 |
kentma | DaemonFC: you use windows by /choice/? | Jun 04 18:19 |
DaemonFC | Firefox would have Medium Integrity access | Jun 04 18:19 |
DaemonFC | not really so much by choice | Jun 04 18:20 |
kentma | If I were running windows, I wouldn't take it on the internet anyway - it's just too insecure. | Jun 04 18:20 |
MinceR | he's the resident m$ fanboy | Jun 04 18:20 |
MinceR | oh, and troll | Jun 04 18:21 |
schestowitz | Too harsh a headline? Wind River Acquired by Convicted Criminal Organisation < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/04/wind-river-acquired-by-intel/ > | Jun 04 18:21 |
schestowitz | Why do criminals geta free pass? | Jun 04 18:21 |
DaemonFC | everyone that uses it and knows anything about it is a fanboy | Jun 04 18:21 |
schestowitz | I'm tired of censorship... | Jun 04 18:21 |
DaemonFC | I keep forgetting | Jun 04 18:21 |
schestowitz | Like people who nitpick factual things that bluntly say the truth and use them t discredit | Jun 04 18:22 |
schestowitz | St00pid press | Jun 04 18:22 |
kentma | DaemonFC: if you choose to use it when you have alternatives, you must have some positive views on it. The term "fanboi" is too emotionally loaded for me, I'm not really sure what it means, but I know it's intended to be hiighly derogatory. | Jun 04 18:23 |
DaemonFC | no, I just don't like not having drivers and reverse engineering things | Jun 04 18:23 |
schestowitz | Is Microsoft Following GM's Road Map? < http://www.pcworld.com/article/166070/is_microsoft_following_gms_road_map.html > | Jun 04 18:23 |
DaemonFC | and applying patches that GNU keeps out for purely political reasons | Jun 04 18:23 |
DaemonFC | that were submitted 2 years ago | Jun 04 18:23 |
MinceR | if you don't like not having drivers and reverse engineering things then why do you use windows? | Jun 04 18:23 |
kentma | DaemonFC: then why use Windows? Hardware support is awful. | Jun 04 18:24 |
MinceR | windows' driver support sucks | Jun 04 18:24 |
DaemonFC | everything I have works | Jun 04 18:24 |
MinceR | and it's all proprietary crap so if you want to figure something out you've got to reverse engineer it | Jun 04 18:24 |
kentma | DaemonFC: me too. I just don't have any Windows. | Jun 04 18:24 |
schestowitz | Microsoft is already borrowing money openly. | Jun 04 18:24 |
MinceR | strange, everything i have works on gnu/linux | Jun 04 18:24 |
schestowitz | Same here | Jun 04 18:24 |
*conley has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | Jun 04 18:24 | |
DaemonFC | GMediaStreamer (iirc) is deliberately crippled by the GNU people so that it won't talk to an XBOX 360 | Jun 04 18:25 |
DaemonFC | without the user applying out of tree patches against it | Jun 04 18:25 |
DaemonFC | political bullshit | Jun 04 18:25 |
kentma | DaemonFC: I have a bubba1, bubba2, mythtv on an acer (pre-installed by efficientpc), 3 other efficientPC ubuntu machines, two nokia 770s and one nokia 800, an archos media player (wife's), and a triple-dragon satellite receiver. | Jun 04 18:25 |
MinceR | at least you get to choose to apply out of tree patches | Jun 04 18:25 |
MinceR | do you get that choice on windows? of course you don't | Jun 04 18:25 |
kentma | DaemonFC: when you get to apply patches to the windows kernel, then we'll have something to discuss. | Jun 04 18:25 |
DaemonFC | it's like 20 kilobytes and adds the 360's transfer mode | Jun 04 18:25 |
DaemonFC | it's not like it kludges the code and benefits nobody | Jun 04 18:26 |
kentma | DaemonFC: you can patch yourself in linux if you want to - that's what freedom is about. You cannot patch windows *at all*. | Jun 04 18:26 |
DaemonFC | a lot of the settings you have to build into the kernel in Linux are actually part of other system files | Jun 04 18:26 |
DaemonFC | and yes, you can patch them | Jun 04 18:26 |
kentma | Oh yeah, I've an Acer Aspire one (linpus) and a motorola A780 phone (linux), and two tomtoms (linux). | Jun 04 18:26 |
DaemonFC | just not "officially" | Jun 04 18:27 |
MinceR | and not "legally" | Jun 04 18:27 |
DaemonFC | so? | Jun 04 18:27 |
kentma | DaemonFC: you can't patch windows *at all*. | Jun 04 18:27 |
MinceR | and you have to "work" for micro$oft to get access to the data that would allow you to do so | Jun 04 18:27 |
DaemonFC | yes you can | Jun 04 18:27 |
kentma | DaemonFC: no, you can't. Microsoft can, you can't. The eula is extremely specific about this. | Jun 04 18:27 |
DaemonFC | I've seen most of the NT kernel source code | Jun 04 18:28 |
kentma | DaemonFC: unless you think breaking the law is good? | Jun 04 18:28 |
DaemonFC | minus file system code and drivers | Jun 04 18:28 |
kentma | DaemonFC: I've seen source code for several voice switches, but I'm *not allowed* to patch it. | Jun 04 18:28 |
MinceR | he thinks breaking the law is good as long as you do it with windows | Jun 04 18:28 |
MinceR | but otherwise it's bad | Jun 04 18:28 |
DaemonFC | no, I've legally seen the Windows 2003 kernel source code | Jun 04 18:28 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: have you successfully compiled a kernel from it on a machine you own? | Jun 04 18:28 |
kentma | DaemonFC: legally seen is not the same as legally allowed to patch! | Jun 04 18:29 |
MinceR | remember, "most of [it]" won't compile. | Jun 04 18:29 |
kentma | Or do you have some special licence from MS for this? | Jun 04 18:29 |
MinceR | he probably works for m$ | Jun 04 18:29 |
DaemonFC | no | Jun 04 18:29 |
MinceR | as an astroturfer or something. | Jun 04 18:29 |
DaemonFC | Shared Source License | Jun 04 18:29 |
MinceR | or just a desperate stock holder. | Jun 04 18:29 |
kentma | DaemonFC: hahahaha! | Jun 04 18:29 |
MinceR | (i know one) | Jun 04 18:29 |
DaemonFC | Windows Research Kernel | Jun 04 18:29 |
kentma | DaemonFC: so as I said, you're not allowed to patch it. | Jun 04 18:30 |
MinceR | iirc shared source does not legally allow you to use the source, only to look at it | Jun 04 18:30 |
tessier | The ABL itself seems like a good idea to me. | Jun 04 18:30 |
kentma | MS doesn't share anything - the term is highly misleading. | Jun 04 18:30 |
kentma | ABL? | Jun 04 18:30 |
MinceR | it's funny how they call it a "research" kernel | Jun 04 18:30 |
MinceR | i guess that's micro$oftspeak for industrial espionage | Jun 04 18:30 |
tessier | AirBorn Laser. Laser on a 747 for shooting down ballistic missiles. | Jun 04 18:30 |
DaemonFC | http://www.microsoft.com/resources/sharedsource/windowsacademic/researchkernelkit.mspx | Jun 04 18:31 |
DaemonFC | their site about it | Jun 04 18:31 |
MinceR | oh, another funny word, "academic" | Jun 04 18:31 |
kentma | academic? so you can't actually use it, then? | Jun 04 18:31 |
kentma | haha! | Jun 04 18:31 |
tessier | Something like that would quite handily replace Patriot missile systems around Israel, protect Japan from North Korea, etc. | Jun 04 18:31 |
MinceR | as in "formerly academic institutions we've bought" | Jun 04 18:31 |
tessier | While having no practical offensive use. | Jun 04 18:31 |
MinceR | "...and turned into marketing instutitions" | Jun 04 18:31 |
kentma | tessier: until a foggy day. | Jun 04 18:31 |
MinceR | wow, "core windows technologies"! i've always wanted to use "cutting-edge" technology from the 1970s! | Jun 04 18:32 |
kentma | or a hot one, or one where there is a temperature inversion... or anything which can refract, or if someone has a mirror... | Jun 04 18:32 |
DaemonFC | no, Windows NT was released in 1993 | Jun 04 18:32 |
DaemonFC | Linux is actually older than NT | Jun 04 18:33 |
kentma | or a prism, or indeed, a group of prisms | Jun 04 18:33 |
MinceR | and windows nt was a hacked reimplementation of vms | Jun 04 18:33 |
kentma | in fact, you could have great fun cooking people who are trying to cook you :-) | Jun 04 18:33 |
MinceR | with all the sense beaten out of it | Jun 04 18:33 |
kentma | MinceR: yes, Mr Cutler, as I recall. | Jun 04 18:33 |
MinceR | all the parts that could have served security and reliability were sacrificed for performance | Jun 04 18:33 |
kentma | I presume he's left MS again, which is why they can't write another OS. In fact, they never have, have they? DOS was nicked, too. | Jun 04 18:34 |
DaemonFC | yeah, they poched the VMS team and based it on OS/2 and the Windows API | Jun 04 18:34 |
DaemonFC | horrified IBM | Jun 04 18:34 |
DaemonFC | rightly so | Jun 04 18:34 |
kentma | DaemonFC: nope, that's quite wrong. | Jun 04 18:34 |
DaemonFC | *poached | Jun 04 18:34 |
MinceR | it horrified most people who looked at that mess :> | Jun 04 18:34 |
kentma | Mr Cutler and co came in from Compaq, I think, who'd acquired VMS. | Jun 04 18:35 |
DaemonFC | horrified everyone it put out of business | Jun 04 18:35 |
DaemonFC | you have to wonder what MS was thinking when they saved Apple | Jun 04 18:35 |
kentma | The early windows NT battle was a different one, and was about killing OS2 and having IBM over a barrel again. MS don't care about customers, just global domination. | Jun 04 18:35 |
kentma | DaemonFC: MS appear to have completely failed to kill IBM. | Jun 04 18:36 |
kentma | And failed to kill google, too. | Jun 04 18:36 |
kentma | and failed to kill Linux and the GNU project. | Jun 04 18:36 |
kentma | and failed to kill Firefox | Jun 04 18:36 |
DaemonFC | meh, IBM scapped OS/2, abandoned AIX, and is now becoming another generic vendor of RHEL | Jun 04 18:36 |
MinceR | that code didn't put anyone out of business | Jun 04 18:36 |
MinceR | anticompetitive practices did | Jun 04 18:36 |
kentma | and failed to kill PS3, PS2 and wii | Jun 04 18:36 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 04 18:36 |
kentma | and failed to kill iPod | Jun 04 18:36 |
MinceR | ibm scrapped os/2 because ibm is incompetent at managing any product it has below mainframe level. | Jun 04 18:36 |
kentma | and even failed to get the BBC's streaming service as Microsoft-only. | Jun 04 18:37 |
kentma | and failed to kill of spam | Jun 04 18:37 |
kentma | and failed to create a secure OS | Jun 04 18:37 |
kentma | and failed to create a secure HTTP server | Jun 04 18:37 |
MinceR | despite all its mistakes, ibm will most likely outlive m$. | Jun 04 18:37 |
*conley (n=conley@c-69-255-117-144.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 18:37 | |
kentma | and failed to kill Apache | Jun 04 18:37 |
kentma | and failed to kill ARM | Jun 04 18:37 |
DaemonFC | no, they bought into Apache | Jun 04 18:37 |
MinceR | yet they haven't killed apache yet | Jun 04 18:38 |
kentma | and failed to kill Nokia, Sony Ericsson, Symbian and Android and LiMo | Jun 04 18:38 |
DaemonFC | they don't want to kill it | Jun 04 18:38 |
kentma | DaemonFC: they can't. | Jun 04 18:38 |
MinceR | yes, they never wanted to kill it | Jun 04 18:38 |
MinceR | it isn't like they wanted to sell IIS | Jun 04 18:38 |
DaemonFC | there's nothing stopping them from making a closed source fork of Apache | Jun 04 18:38 |
MinceR | though that would explain why IIS sucks so much | Jun 04 18:38 |
DaemonFC | and making it run better on Windows | Jun 04 18:38 |
DaemonFC | and calling it IIS | Jun 04 18:38 |
kentma | DaemonFC: haha! | Jun 04 18:38 |
MinceR | "making it run better" isn't really in their profile, you see | Jun 04 18:38 |
MinceR | if they could have done such a thing, they surely would have | Jun 04 18:39 |
kentma | DaemonFC: they'd need to make windows work better first. Which they can't - they've tried, and they can't. | Jun 04 18:39 |
MinceR | indeed | Jun 04 18:39 |
DaemonFC | they're going to I'm sure | Jun 04 18:39 |
kentma | failed to see the growth of the netbook and mobility | Jun 04 18:39 |
kentma | failed to get Windows running on ARM | Jun 04 18:39 |
kentma | failed to have any success with Windows Mobile | Jun 04 18:39 |
kentma | Failed with Encarta | Jun 04 18:39 |
kentma | Failed with Microsoft Search | Jun 04 18:39 |
MinceR | they've given up on wince already | Jun 04 18:39 |
kentma | Failed with Microsoft Autoroute | Jun 04 18:39 |
schestowitz | Yes | Jun 04 18:40 |
kentma | Failed with Wince :-) | Jun 04 18:40 |
schestowitz | Given up | Jun 04 18:40 |
schestowitz | Bought Danger | Jun 04 18:40 |
MinceR | danger (which they own) has moved to netbsd already | Jun 04 18:40 |
schestowitz | Done nuthin' w/ it | Jun 04 18:40 |
schestowitz | US Trade Rep Promises Transparency... But Actions Speak Louder Than Websites < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090602/0905525095.shtml > | Jun 04 18:40 |
kentma | even failed to acquire Yahoo!!!!! | Jun 04 18:40 |
DaemonFC | they didn't want Yahoo | Jun 04 18:40 |
MinceR | lol | Jun 04 18:40 |
DaemonFC | they never intended to buy them | Jun 04 18:40 |
schestowitz | They have bad karma | Jun 04 18:40 |
schestowitz | LOL indeed | Jun 04 18:40 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: revisionism eh? | Jun 04 18:40 |
kentma | DaemonFC: hahaha | Jun 04 18:40 |
MinceR | i'm sure they decided they don't want yahoo after they failed to get it | Jun 04 18:40 |
schestowitz | Sure, DaemonFC, sure... | Jun 04 18:40 |
MinceR | sour grapes | Jun 04 18:41 |
DaemonFC | by making the offer and letting that fucking idiot turn them down | Jun 04 18:41 |
schestowitz | So Yahoo! says yes, and then.,.. | Jun 04 18:41 |
DaemonFC | they destroyed them for free | Jun 04 18:41 |
DaemonFC | with no red tape | Jun 04 18:41 |
schestowitz | MS: "No, we were just joking.." | Jun 04 18:41 |
kentma | DaemonFC: they made a very specific series of stock-market statements indicating their intention to acquire Yahoo!!! they just failed to do so. | Jun 04 18:41 |
DaemonFC | it was a bluff | Jun 04 18:41 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: that was not the inettn | Jun 04 18:41 |
MinceR | they destroyed yahoo so badly they had to rename their search engine because nobody wants to use it | Jun 04 18:41 |
schestowitz | Poaching employees maybe | Jun 04 18:41 |
DaemonFC | they were never going to buy them | Jun 04 18:41 |
kentma | DaemonFC: don't worry, MS are mostly about failure and have been for some time | Jun 04 18:41 |
MinceR | and before that, they had to pay people to make them use it | Jun 04 18:41 |
schestowitz | That failed too | Jun 04 18:42 |
schestowitz | And abused also | Jun 04 18:42 |
schestowitz | Called "bribery" | Jun 04 18:42 |
kentma | DaemonFC: on what authority do you make this claim? Basically, you're saying the broke the law here. | Jun 04 18:42 |
MinceR | somehow yahoo didn't need to do either of those things | Jun 04 18:42 |
kentma | DaemonFC: what's your source for this claim? | Jun 04 18:42 |
MinceR | one would think that's precisely why m$ wanted to buy yahoo | Jun 04 18:42 |
DaemonFC | because buying a company for them is more complicated than walking into a store and buying chewing gum | Jun 04 18:42 |
schestowitz | Guy Sets Up The Rape of His Wife -- But It's Craigslist That Gets The Attention < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090603/1627155116.shtml > | Jun 04 18:42 |
DaemonFC | if Yahell actually accepted, they knew the deal would be blocked by regulators anyway | Jun 04 18:42 |
DaemonFC | that's why they offered | Jun 04 18:43 |
kentma | MinceR: there're serious laws about this kind of thing... I want to know why DaemonFC is claiming that MS were being dishonest to the stock market. | Jun 04 18:43 |
MinceR | kentma: interesting | Jun 04 18:43 |
DaemonFC | and if it somehow went through, they had the money to buy them | Jun 04 18:43 |
kentma | DaemonFC: that's a completely different issue. | Jun 04 18:43 |
MinceR | kentma: but i doubt he'll ever answer you, he's just a typical troll | Jun 04 18:43 |
schestowitz | Yeah | Jun 04 18:43 |
schestowitz | Time waster here | Jun 04 18:43 |
DaemonFC | because they were using the regulators to their favor | Jun 04 18:43 |
kentma | MinceR: I've come to realise that during this short conversation. I was suspicious when he kept talking about IE security stuff on this particualr channel. | Jun 04 18:43 |
DaemonFC | they knew that either the DOJ or the EC would likely block it | Jun 04 18:44 |
kentma | DaemonFC: that's illegal - are you sure about this? Do you have evidence? | Jun 04 18:44 |
DaemonFC | provided Yahell accepted the offer | Jun 04 18:44 |
kentma | DaemonFC: or are you making this up? | Jun 04 18:44 |
MinceR | schestowitz: you can stop this particular waste of time though :> | Jun 04 18:44 |
schestowitz | MS surrenders: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1184511/windows-armless | Jun 04 18:44 |
DaemonFC | that's the whole thing, you can't prove it, and so it's the perfect crime | Jun 04 18:44 |
kentma | DaemonFC: you are making a very serious claim here - what's your source, please? | Jun 04 18:44 |
DaemonFC | but I'm pretty sure that's why they did it | Jun 04 18:44 |
MinceR | you're pretty sure of a lot of ridiculous assertions | Jun 04 18:45 |
MinceR | ...and can't prove either | Jun 04 18:45 |
kentma | DaemonFC: ah, pretty sure... that's a huge change. So it's a guess, and you have no evidence, in fact, all the evidence says something different. Thanks for wasting my time. | Jun 04 18:45 |
schestowitz | It gets him attention | Jun 04 18:45 |
schestowitz | Revisionism | Jun 04 18:45 |
schestowitz | It's like thr trolls in COLA | Jun 04 18:45 |
MinceR | do we need to give him attention here? | Jun 04 18:45 |
kentma | schestowitz: agreed. | Jun 04 18:45 |
schestowitz | Or the claims that TomTom attacked MS | Jun 04 18:45 |
DaemonFC | It's not, it was a clever move | Jun 04 18:45 |
kentma | MinceR: no more from me, I promise. | Jun 04 18:45 |
DaemonFC | it tanked Yahell's stock price | Jun 04 18:45 |
DaemonFC | it's still half of what it was | Jun 04 18:45 |
schestowitz | Or that Netscape commited suicide | Jun 04 18:45 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC would say that too | Jun 04 18:45 |
DaemonFC | Nutscrape | Jun 04 18:45 |
kentma | DaemonFC: I no longer take you seriously. | Jun 04 18:46 |
kentma | DaemonFC: in fact, I'd prefer it if you went to troll somewhere else, please? | Jun 04 18:46 |
DaemonFC | Would you buy something that already has proven it can't compete with Google? | Jun 04 18:46 |
DaemonFC | to try to help you compet with Google? | Jun 04 18:47 |
DaemonFC | that makes sense doesn't it? | Jun 04 18:47 |
schestowitz | Microsoft is screwing Cisco again: Them's Fightin' Words: Cisco Says HP-Microsoft Alliance Cuts Out Partners < http://www.crn.com/networking/217701681;jsessionid=Q1CWJSLFU5VZIQSNDLRSKH0CJUNN2JVN > | Jun 04 18:47 |
kentma | Cisco learnt everything they do from MS, though, didn't they? | Jun 04 18:47 |
neighborlee | It is so amusing..how when you start to corner the mono supporters, that they start to cry fowl with stuff like: by directHEX: " But why stop there? Pull OpenOffice.org, save 244.3 MiB. Pull FireFox, save 112.2 MiB. Pull Evolution, save 59.1 MiB " < its all they have left, when other arguments FAIL to remain relvant :)) | Jun 04 18:48 |
neighborlee | http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/rants/74/ < from here | Jun 04 18:48 |
DaemonFC | GNU complains of GPL violation, Cisco dumps Linux alltogether and never looks back | Jun 04 18:48 |
DaemonFC | great success? | Jun 04 18:48 |
DaemonFC | now Wind River makes millions from Cisco royalties | Jun 04 18:49 |
kentma | neighborlee: the sign of a cornered troll, I think? | Jun 04 18:49 |
neighborlee | exactly | Jun 04 18:49 |
DaemonFC | so by correlation, GNU effectively propped up Wind River at the expense of Linux | Jun 04 18:49 |
neighborlee | time after time, this is what they resort to...here and on ubuntu forums..its all the same..where you dont usually see it m, is on fedora forums.. but thats because fedora's stance on mono has been more precise,,and now even more so.... | Jun 04 18:50 |
DaemonFC | when they probably could have approached them differently | Jun 04 18:50 |
schestowitz | Look at the propaganda language at thew MSBBC... "thieves".. "pirates"... who runs this site? http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/technology/8083866.stm | Jun 04 18:50 |
kentma | schestowitz: the BBC is getting worse and worse for this, but don't forget that the BBC is right in the middle of this debate, as one of the world's largest media distributors, and possible the most influential on the planet. | Jun 04 18:50 |
schestowitz | Yes, exactly | Jun 04 18:51 |
kentma | still, we won the iPlayer debate round 1! | Jun 04 18:51 |
kentma | many thanks to Dr Simon Pugh MP. | Jun 04 18:51 |
DaemonFC | anyone using Gnutella needs to be smacked upside the head | Jun 04 18:52 |
DaemonFC | :P | Jun 04 18:52 |
DaemonFC | that's where the MAFIAA goes fishing | Jun 04 18:53 |
DaemonFC | cause it's so easy to poison Gnutella | Jun 04 18:53 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, and then to make it look ok to development banshee,,,they tout the supposed 'fact' that rhythmbox develoemnt looks to be DEAD anyway | Jun 04 18:53 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, same thing that happend on redhat mailng list , when someone suggested replacement for fspot..and someone chimed in and said WHY a new app.help a 'current' project instead ;))) | Jun 04 18:53 |
DaemonFC | I have to admit I got a few garbage files several years ago before I figured out what was going on | Jun 04 18:54 |
DaemonFC | that was like 2002-ish? | Jun 04 18:54 |
DaemonFC | I haven't used Gnutella since | Jun 04 18:54 |
DaemonFC | that network is just not resilient to attack | Jun 04 18:56 |
schestowitz | Analysis: MIME sniffing problems in PHP applications < http://www.h-online.com/open/Analysis-MIME-sniffing-problems-in-PHP-applications--/news/113447 > | Jun 04 18:57 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: thanks for the info | Jun 04 18:57 |
schestowitz | Some of it is older news | Jun 04 18:57 |
schestowitz | I have another post about Mono coming | Jun 04 18:57 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, np | Jun 04 18:58 |
DaemonFC | Linux Distro: "Can we distribute this?" Miguel De Icaza: "*shrug* Go ask Microsoft" | Jun 04 18:59 |
DaemonFC | and so Ubuntu goes whole hog and proceeds to crap up their OS with Mono everywhere | Jun 04 18:59 |
schestowitz | Amarok 2.1 is out now that KDE claims it has great momentum http://www.kdenews.org/2009/06/03/amarok-21-let-there-be-light-released | Jun 04 19:00 |
neighborlee | LOL | Jun 04 19:00 |
neighborlee | well you see | Jun 04 19:00 |
schestowitz | New KDE release: http://kde.org/announcements/announce-4.2.4.php http://www.kdenews.org/2009/06/02/kde-424-aka-cornrow-released | Jun 04 19:00 |
DaemonFC | if it's really "free software" you shouldn't even really need to ask if you may distribute it | Jun 04 19:00 |
neighborlee | as long as MOST people dont notice whats going on..they can do it | Jun 04 19:00 |
neighborlee | its when people that notice make up the majority, that they cant procede..so thats why i ts been so important to try to get the word to average joe and cindy ;) | Jun 04 19:01 |
DaemonFC | well, Novell keeps saying it's free software, and Icaza keeps telling people to ask Microsoft | Jun 04 19:01 |
DaemonFC | so someone has missed a memo | Jun 04 19:01 |
neighborlee | lol | Jun 04 19:02 |
neighborlee | its called..cover thy arse | Jun 04 19:02 |
neighborlee | and HOPE not too many people NOTICE | Jun 04 19:02 |
DaemonFC | then Novell says any distro can use Moonlight, then Microsoft says only Suse can | Jun 04 19:02 |
neighborlee | like our government.or any other cooporation... | Jun 04 19:02 |
DaemonFC | crossed wires | Jun 04 19:02 |
neighborlee | LOL not relly | Jun 04 19:03 |
neighborlee | its easier and safer for novell to be wrong..if M$ is.the convicted monopolist.they all hell breaks loose | Jun 04 19:03 |
neighborlee | its choosing the fall guy | Jun 04 19:03 |
DaemonFC | well, the truth is bound to happen accidentally at some point when you have 8 layers of management | Jun 04 19:03 |
neighborlee | that too | Jun 04 19:04 |
DaemonFC | what I think will be hillarious is if Ubuntu implements Moonlight and Microsoft does sue | Jun 04 19:05 |
DaemonFC | we'll see who's laughing and shrugging this off then | Jun 04 19:05 |
DaemonFC | Mono/Moonlight are a hell of a lot scarier than an MP3 decoder | Jun 04 19:06 |
schestowitz | IDF troll headline: http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2009/060309-will-oracle-kill-the-java.html?fsrc=rss-linux-news (Will Oracle kill the Java community?) | Jun 04 19:06 |
DaemonFC | actually, Ubuntu could legally provide an MP3 decoder | Jun 04 19:06 |
schestowitz | Many headlines with question marks are trolling | Jun 04 19:06 |
schestowitz | If it's new, then report it | Jun 04 19:07 |
schestowitz | Don't ask | Jun 04 19:07 |
schestowitz | Like Fox.. | Jun 04 19:07 |
schestowitz | We report, you decide | Jun 04 19:07 |
schestowitz | We give propaganda | Jun 04 19:07 |
DaemonFC | the Fluendo one is legal to redistribute with no royalties | Jun 04 19:07 |
schestowitz | You sheeple get angry at the Bad Guys | Jun 04 19:07 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: MP3 decoder != MS patents | Jun 04 19:07 |
schestowitz | Linux is not a big threat to Sisvel at al | Jun 04 19:07 |
mtnd3w | Thompson holds MP3 patents | Jun 04 19:08 |
DaemonFC | no, Fluendo legally licensed theirs | Jun 04 19:08 |
DaemonFC | and the rights to distribute it freely | Jun 04 19:08 |
schestowitz | Let MS go out of business first: http://www.pcworld.com/article/166070/is_microsoft_following_gms_road_map.html | Jun 04 19:08 |
schestowitz | They try to elevate the cost of Linux in the mean time | Jun 04 19:08 |
schestowitz | Before they go ch11 | Jun 04 19:08 |
*ThistleWeb (n=gordon@87.113.80.174.plusnet.pte-ag2.dyn.plus.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 19:09 | |
schestowitz | Beware Windows on your ATMs. http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25484/1054/ | Jun 04 19:09 |
schestowitz | I worry that a lot of people in tech think or feel like MS is the only bully in town | Jun 04 19:09 |
DaemonFC | Windows is on damn near anything you slide a credit card on | Jun 04 19:10 |
schestowitz | Google's Linux-managed/targeted apps will be cross-arch. "Android Market to work on Intel's Mobli"n < http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2009/060409-android-market-to-work-on.html?fsrc=rss-linux-news > | Jun 04 19:11 |
DaemonFC | "What about competition? So far, nothing substantial. Microsoft is actually competing with itself in many ways. Folks love Windows XP so much that they won't switch to Windows Vista, partly because they've heard it wasn't good, not because they've seen it or it's caused them any problems." | Jun 04 19:12 |
DaemonFC | heh | Jun 04 19:12 |
schestowitz | Twitterers Say David Carradine Found Dead < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/06/04/twitterers-say-david-carradine-found-dead > Said to be suicide.. | Jun 04 19:13 |
schestowitz | http://www.david-carradine.com/ | Jun 04 19:13 |
mtnd3w | DaemonFC that's why XP SP3 was so lousy | Jun 04 19:13 |
schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Carradine | Jun 04 19:13 |
DaemonFC | "The Mac is still a niche market, not a threat. Linux supporters have yet to unite and battle the Redmond giant. Essentially, Microsoft has one advantage over GM: The competition won't cause its downfall." | Jun 04 19:13 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: You sure this is the guy you meantto link to? heh | Jun 04 19:14 |
mtnd3w | they wanted people to switch to Vista, and everyone claimed how Vista is so much better | Jun 04 19:14 |
mtnd3w | now we have Windows 7 | Jun 04 19:14 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: IDG | Jun 04 19:14 |
schestowitz | I'm not a fan of theirs | Jun 04 19:14 |
schestowitz | Just an eye-catching headline | Jun 04 19:14 |
DaemonFC | http://www.infoworld.com/d/open-source/desktop-linux-why-it-may-have-lost-its-chance-820 | Jun 04 19:14 |
DaemonFC | there's another one | Jun 04 19:14 |
DaemonFC | "It's time we faced it: The Year of the Linux Desktop, long foretold, isn't coming." | Jun 04 19:15 |
DaemonFC | flashy yes | Jun 04 19:15 |
schestowitz | Wither the talk about economic recovery. http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/06/04/online-job-demand-in-the-us-declines (Online Job Demand in the US Declines) | Jun 04 19:16 |
DaemonFC | "Enterprises aren't buying the Linux promise, nor are vendors | Jun 04 19:16 |
DaemonFC | Yet if Microsoft is willing to spend millions on desktop Linux, the enterprise plainly is not. Even given the backlash against Vista and uncertainty surrounding Windows 7, there has been no mass exodus. By Ballmer's own figures, the greatest threat to Windows remains unlicensed Windows, not Linux. In fact, according to research from Net Applications, Linux's market share has declined in recent months, despite the breakout succes | Jun 04 19:16 |
DaemonFC | s of low-cost Linux netbooks." | Jun 04 19:16 |
DaemonFC | I love these people, don't you? | Jun 04 19:16 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: they use emotion to draw in crowds | Jun 04 19:16 |
schestowitz | I know the trolls | Jun 04 19:16 |
schestowitz | I wrote about of of theirs yesterday | Jun 04 19:16 |
schestowitz | Bill Syder, IDG (InfoWorlds) | Jun 04 19:17 |
schestowitz | Also MS investor | Jun 04 19:17 |
*neighborlee has quit ("Leaving") | Jun 04 19:17 | |
schestowitz | What Ballmer says must be true | Jun 04 19:17 |
schestowitz | And his former employee Hopkins from NetApps | Jun 04 19:17 |
schestowitz | Who will tell the wing with a wet thumb in the air | Jun 04 19:18 |
schestowitz | "Hmm... Linux feels up this month... up to 0.000001%" | Jun 04 19:18 |
schestowitz | "Sorry... the data and methods are secret... like an old recipe" | Jun 04 19:18 |
schestowitz | They just try to scare vendors... | Jun 04 19:18 |
schestowitz | To deter hardware/drivers/gamers/program ports, etc. | Jun 04 19:19 |
schestowitz | Bunch of pathetic liars. This should be criminalised | Jun 04 19:19 |
schestowitz | Like using false rumours to bump stock markets and stocks | Jun 04 19:19 |
schestowitz | Using lies that are self-fulfillign | Jun 04 19:19 |
Balrog | Intel buys Wind River | Jun 04 19:22 |
Balrog | not too good :( | Jun 04 19:22 |
Balrog | http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2009/06/intel-strikes-back-at-arm-buys-embedded-os-maker-wind-river.ars | Jun 04 19:22 |
mtnd3w | Bill Gates urges fellow rich to share their wealth http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5h37xgxUGSoxn8tHWAxhkesTyVk7Q | Jun 04 19:23 |
schestowitz | http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-me-david-carradine5-2009jun05,0,644033.story | Jun 04 19:23 |
schestowitz | Confirmed dead | Jun 04 19:23 |
schestowitz | mtnd3w: just PR | Jun 04 19:23 |
schestowitz | "fellow rich people urge Bill Gates to pretend they are good people" | Jun 04 19:24 |
schestowitz | The olo routine | Jun 04 19:24 |
schestowitz | All the rich farts get people off each others' shoulders | Jun 04 19:24 |
mtnd3w | hilarious | Jun 04 19:24 |
schestowitz | And the Fart from Bellvue (or Kikkland IIRC) will have the press say "WOW! He's so generous" | Jun 04 19:24 |
schestowitz | So in essense.. the world's buggest thieves are shown for the most generous people" | Jun 04 19:25 |
schestowitz | Saving lives and all... | Jun 04 19:25 |
schestowitz | If that's not Orwellian inversion, I don't know what is | Jun 04 19:25 |
schestowitz | Balrog: I wrote about this in BN (latest) | Jun 04 19:25 |
schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/04/carradine_dead/ | Jun 04 19:25 |
schestowitz | http://www.kungfucinema.com/martial-arts-actor-shek-ki-dead-at-96-7734 | Jun 04 19:25 |
schestowitz | 96 y-o | Jun 04 19:25 |
ThistleWeb | I thought he was 76, methinks that 96 is a typo | Jun 04 19:27 |
schestowitz | Russia launches antitrust probe of Microsoft http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE55358020090604 Microsoft recently dumped money on Russia to prevent this | Jun 04 19:27 |
Balrog | thing is, I've worked with vxworks devices (PPC processor) | Jun 04 19:27 |
Balrog | :( | Jun 04 19:27 |
schestowitz | ThistleWeb: another person | Jun 04 19:27 |
schestowitz | Shek Ki | Jun 04 19:27 |
ThistleWeb | indeedy | Jun 04 19:27 |
schestowitz | Concurrent | Jun 04 19:27 |
ThistleWeb | ahh gotcha | Jun 04 19:27 |
schestowitz | Domino effect | Jun 04 19:27 |
schestowitz | Shek Ki heard the news about Carradine | Jun 04 19:28 |
ThistleWeb | thought that was 2 different sources for the same story | Jun 04 19:28 |
schestowitz | Carradine is claimed to have killed himself | Jun 04 19:28 |
schestowitz | Lots of that recently | Jun 04 19:28 |
schestowitz | The coming depression leads those with huge dirty secrets (or debt) to it | Jun 04 19:29 |
schestowitz | I know some people who are on the same boat | Jun 04 19:29 |
schestowitz | The US make people prisons | Jun 04 19:29 |
ThistleWeb | well done on the site btw, I've subscribed to the rss for ages now | Jun 04 19:29 |
schestowitz | Give them too much 'credit' | Jun 04 19:29 |
schestowitz | Credit = euphemism for debt, prison | Jun 04 19:29 |
schestowitz | ThistleWeb: thanks | Jun 04 19:29 |
schestowitz | I have lots coming later | Jun 04 19:29 |
schestowitz | About 8 posts slated, given some time | Jun 04 19:29 |
Balrog | schestowitz: are you using the alpha theora encoder for the videos on your site? | Jun 04 19:30 |
ThistleWeb | not sure it suits a blog style though. A CMS like Drupal may suit it better | Jun 04 19:30 |
Balrog | // BN | Jun 04 19:30 |
mtnd3w | the whole donating of computers with Windows installed | Jun 04 19:31 |
mtnd3w | is ensuring the next generation of zombie fanboys | Jun 04 19:31 |
DaemonFC | yeah, that's where I started with Windows | Jun 04 19:34 |
DaemonFC | a hand me down 486 Packard Bell with Windows 3.11 | Jun 04 19:34 |
schestowitz | Balrog: ffmpeg default | Jun 04 19:35 |
schestowitz | ThistleWeb: I'll do more on the Wiki soon. | Jun 04 19:35 |
DaemonFC | I think if any form of Linux would catch on, it would be one that at least "felt" right to someone that had been using Windows | Jun 04 19:35 |
ThistleWeb | the wiki is a great idea too | Jun 04 19:35 |
schestowitz | Later this month... Comes for the most part | Jun 04 19:35 |
schestowitz | But it needs TONS of work | Jun 04 19:36 |
schestowitz | After this weekend | Jun 04 19:36 |
schestowitz | Will be a weird week for me next week. | Jun 04 19:36 |
DaemonFC | unfortunately once you have that, they start charging and/or throwing in lots of stuff you don't really want | Jun 04 19:36 |
schestowitz | Then it quiets down on the interwebbies during sumer | Jun 04 19:36 |
schestowitz | *summer | Jun 04 19:36 |
Balrog | vxWorks is already used on ARM | Jun 04 19:38 |
DaemonFC | hmmm, is there anyone that makes Micro SDs that are more than 2 gigs? | Jun 04 19:38 |
schestowitz | More Linux for ma and pa: http://www.stores.org/InformationTechnology/2009/06/Edit02.asp | Jun 04 19:38 |
schestowitz | Balrog: and NASA | Jun 04 19:38 |
Balrog | schestowitz: ffmpeg was producing somewhat corrupted .ogg files last time I tried | Jun 04 19:38 |
DaemonFC | Balrog: Yes I know, I thoroughly enjoyed killing VX Worlks on my router | Jun 04 19:38 |
schestowitz | How old is Wind River? | Jun 04 19:38 |
DaemonFC | what a pile of shit | Jun 04 19:38 |
schestowitz | I wondered earlier today | Jun 04 19:38 |
schestowitz | Didn't look it up | Jun 04 19:39 |
Balrog | if you're using CLI, make sure you use ffmpeg2theora | Jun 04 19:39 |
DaemonFC | they've been around for a while | Jun 04 19:39 |
schestowitz | They are like SCO in some ways | Jun 04 19:39 |
schestowitz | or Novell | Jun 04 19:39 |
schestowitz | fought Linux | Jun 04 19:39 |
ThistleWeb | I'm always instantly dubious of Linux / FOSS stories on .asp sites | Jun 04 19:39 |
schestowitz | The gave up | Jun 04 19:39 |
schestowitz | Embraced it | Jun 04 19:39 |
Balrog | http://v2v.cc/~j/ffmpeg2theora/ | Jun 04 19:39 |
schestowitz | Because it's free software and they can | Jun 04 19:39 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: If Cisco wanted something where they didn't need to contribute their source changes back, they should have used MINIX in my opinion | Jun 04 19:39 |
schestowitz | Balrog: show me what to use | Jun 04 19:39 |
DaemonFC | it would have been a hell of a lot better than VX Works | Jun 04 19:39 |
Balrog | ^ | Jun 04 19:39 |
Balrog | http://v2v.cc/~j/ffmpeg2theora/ | Jun 04 19:39 |
schestowitz | I covert from raw fla | Jun 04 19:39 |
schestowitz | with whatever they have inside them | Jun 04 19:40 |
schestowitz | swf's with MPEGs probably | Jun 04 19:40 |
Balrog | it can convert from anything that ffmpeg can play | Jun 04 19:40 |
Balrog | but produces valid oggs | Jun 04 19:40 |
DaemonFC | I've kind of sort of fallen in love with FAAC | Jun 04 19:40 |
DaemonFC | I can produce something smaller than Vorbis that sounds basically identical to the CD | Jun 04 19:41 |
Balrog | DaemonFC: I use only lossless codecs | Jun 04 19:41 |
DaemonFC | Balrog: I don't _want_ lossless files on a portable | Jun 04 19:41 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 04 19:41 |
Balrog | even on a portable :) | Jun 04 19:41 |
DaemonFC | I don't want to reduce my storeage space 6x | Jun 04 19:41 |
DaemonFC | for no reason | Jun 04 19:41 |
Balrog | alpha1 of the new theora codec (new libtheora.so) at http://www.theora.org/news/ | Jun 04 19:42 |
DaemonFC | MP3 is crap and by the time you make a decent sounding Vorbis file, you're only trimming maybe 30-40% vs just using a FLAC | Jun 04 19:43 |
DaemonFC | I can get better sounding AAC files with a 550% reduction | Jun 04 19:43 |
Balrog | AAC is good, but they still sound worse than lossless | Jun 04 19:43 |
DaemonFC | FAAC is pretty awesome | Jun 04 19:43 |
schestowitz | └─(19:43 $)─> ./ffmpeg2theora-0.24.linux32\(2\).bin ./Desktop/video.flv | Jun 04 19:43 |
schestowitz | File `./Desktop/video.flv' does not exist or has an unknown data format. | Jun 04 19:43 |
Balrog | hrm | Jun 04 19:44 |
schestowitz | Oh wait | Jun 04 19:44 |
DaemonFC | joint stereo, backwards prediction, 500% Quality | Jun 04 19:44 |
DaemonFC | you'll average 5-8 megs per track | Jun 04 19:44 |
schestowitz | OK | Jun 04 19:44 |
DaemonFC | and it sounds pretty identical to the CD | Jun 04 19:44 |
schestowitz | Works | Jun 04 19:44 |
Balrog | schestowitz: good. Now you'll be generating valid oggs .... about the quality, that has to do with the .so shared library | Jun 04 19:44 |
schestowitz | Any options for sync? | Jun 04 19:44 |
schestowitz | ./ffmpeg2theora-0.24.linux32\(2\).bin -p preview –sync ./video.flv | Jun 04 19:45 |
schestowitz | Seems to work OK | Jun 04 19:45 |
DaemonFC | according to the specs it defaults to Microsoft Transfer Protocol, but you can switch it to Mass Storage Controller | Jun 04 19:45 |
schestowitz | I'll tidy this up later | Jun 04 19:45 |
DaemonFC | so I'm going to do that right away | Jun 04 19:45 |
DaemonFC | that's what made me end up deciding against the Zune I had in my cart, it only supports MTP | Jun 04 19:46 |
DaemonFC | so Linux will basically not know what to do with it without libmtp | Jun 04 19:46 |
Balrog | DaemonFC: not only that | Jun 04 19:46 |
Balrog | Zune is MTP with a crypto layer, so libmtp can't work with it | Jun 04 19:46 |
DaemonFC | oh nice | Jun 04 19:46 |
DaemonFC | ugggh | Jun 04 19:46 |
DaemonFC | I chose wisely :) | Jun 04 19:47 |
DaemonFC | hehe | Jun 04 19:47 |
DaemonFC | Balrog: I think most of the file size reduction is because FAAC makes better use of variable bitrate than Vorbis | Jun 04 19:48 |
DaemonFC | Vorbis' VBR scheme seems pretty stupid and slow to respond | Jun 04 19:48 |
DaemonFC | kind of like MP3s | Jun 04 19:48 |
DaemonFC | I had Winamp set to report the bitrate in real time and AAC is definitely more fluid | Jun 04 19:49 |
DaemonFC | it's disturbing that Vorbis is so bad about its VBR scheme | Jun 04 19:49 |
DaemonFC | all they'd need to do is change the encoder | Jun 04 19:50 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=202636815&listingid=20164022&dcaid=17936 | Jun 04 19:52 |
DaemonFC | do you see what they've done? | Jun 04 19:52 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 04 19:52 |
Balrog | DaemonFC: what about it? | Jun 04 19:53 |
DaemonFC | 11 cents gets them the cheapest listing on Bing and Google | Jun 04 19:53 |
DaemonFC | then you find out the shipping for that little thing is $6 | Jun 04 19:53 |
Balrog | heh, that's how it goes :\ | Jun 04 19:53 |
*amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Jun 04 19:56 | |
schestowitz | http://www.stefanoforenza.com/fs-song-that-doesnt-suck/ | Jun 04 19:57 |
schestowitz | Infinite Hands is OK too | Jun 04 19:57 |
*ThistleWeb has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Jun 04 19:58 | |
*neighborlee (n=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 19:59 | |
schestowitz | Is The Oracle Acquisition of Sun Cause For Worry? < http://www.connectedinternet.co.uk/2009/06/03/is-the-oracle-acquisition-of-sun-cause-for-worry/ > | Jun 04 20:00 |
schestowitz | Selena Frye does just a lot of space fillers, parroting other blogs.. http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/opensource/?p=666 | Jun 04 20:02 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, ROFL: http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/linux/105/ < " For those who have ever dealt with large companies, Sam’s piece comes across as naive at best, and deceitful at worst. 1 month is not a long time when dealing with large multi-nationals. I once didn’t receive a reply for 3 months from HP over a query " | Jun 04 20:02 |
neighborlee | " Sam’s piece comes across as naive at best, and deceitful at worst " | Jun 04 20:02 |
neighborlee | sam should love that ;))lol | Jun 04 20:02 |
schestowitz | Gentoo dying? Hell NO! http://ben.liveforge.org/2009/06/04/gentoo-dying | Jun 04 20:02 |
neighborlee | as it ever alive ? ;0- | Jun 04 20:02 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: he's afraid | Jun 04 20:02 |
schestowitz | If he responds like this | Jun 04 20:02 |
schestowitz | Sam is on the right topic | Jun 04 20:03 |
neighborlee | correct | Jun 04 20:03 |
schestowitz | I don't trust blogs from monkeys | Jun 04 20:03 |
schestowitz | But hey, that's just me | Jun 04 20:03 |
neighborlee | ive tried gentoo..its ..interesting..challenging..slightly educationall..in the end I DONT Have time though..too much hastle | Jun 04 20:03 |
schestowitz | Or chickens | Jun 04 20:03 |
schestowitz | Snimal | Jun 04 20:03 |
neighborlee | LOL | Jun 04 20:03 |
schestowitz | Snimal farm | Jun 04 20:03 |
schestowitz | I never saw him | Jun 04 20:03 |
schestowitz | You thought he was a chick | Jun 04 20:03 |
neighborlee | ha | Jun 04 20:04 |
schestowitz | Just a chicken | Jun 04 20:04 |
neighborlee | during those commits, they neglected their docs | Jun 04 20:04 |
neighborlee | I also am not a fan of masks..not ,,fun ;)) | Jun 04 20:05 |
schestowitz | When will Opera go libre already? It's hard to recommend it.. Opera 10 beta: screenshots Camera icon < http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/software/productivity/0,1000001108,39659334,00.htm > | Jun 04 20:05 |
neighborlee | as in not fun dealing with them | Jun 04 20:05 |
neighborlee | hm | Jun 04 20:05 |
schestowitz | Try PCLOS | Jun 04 20:05 |
schestowitz | 2009.x | Jun 04 20:05 |
schestowitz | It has great reviews | Jun 04 20:05 |
neighborlee | why them over mandriva | Jun 04 20:05 |
schestowitz | Comes with codecs and all | Jun 04 20:05 |
neighborlee | hm | Jun 04 20:05 |
schestowitz | Like better Driva than Driva | Jun 04 20:05 |
neighborlee | rofl | Jun 04 20:06 |
schestowitz | Yeah | Jun 04 20:06 |
neighborlee | :) | Jun 04 20:06 |
schestowitz | Also Pardus | Jun 04 20:06 |
schestowitz | Myth busted: Software installation in Linux is difficult < http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/software-installation-in-linux-is-difficult/ > | Jun 04 20:07 |
schestowitz | Win7 versus Gentoo, round 2 [quick grub install for gentoo users] < http://jonhatalla.com/?p=10 > | Jun 04 20:08 |
fewa | schestowitz, finially a install review that gets at reality | Jun 04 20:09 |
schestowitz | Chris Smart on KDE4: http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7346/1.html | Jun 04 20:09 |
schestowitz | fewa: aye | Jun 04 20:09 |
schestowitz | I see hal makes many edits today | Jun 04 20:10 |
schestowitz | It's tiring watching Wikipedia | Jun 04 20:10 |
schestowitz | It has been useful to show the recent Slog though | Jun 04 20:10 |
fewa | hal has been making bad faith edits too | Jun 04 20:10 |
fewa | removing anything that is critical of windows supportive comments | Jun 04 20:11 |
fewa | and without reason | Jun 04 20:11 |
schestowitz | Even Microsoft's vapourware cannot beat what GNU/Linux offers TODAY: http://www.nuxified.org/blog/why_i_chose_ubuntu_after_trying_windows_7 | Jun 04 20:11 |
schestowitz | fewa: yes, disgusting person | Jun 04 20:11 |
schestowitz | he's annoying the ODF core people | Jun 04 20:11 |
schestowitz | But they can't do much | Jun 04 20:11 |
schestowitz | Smears too | Jun 04 20:11 |
fewa | we need to get him banned from wikipedia for COI | Jun 04 20:12 |
schestowitz | If you could find a together MS connection like W-E gig, that would be a blast | Jun 04 20:12 |
schestowitz | Have a go at ti | Jun 04 20:12 |
schestowitz | *it | Jun 04 20:12 |
schestowitz | Mandriva Linux 2010 (my favourite distro) is coming: http://blog.mandriva.com/2009/06/03/mandriva-linux-2010-is-on-the-road/ | Jun 04 20:15 |
fewa | ive never used mandrive | Jun 04 20:15 |
fewa | what package management does it use? | Jun 04 20:15 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, that install url is nonsense | Jun 04 20:16 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, he's got pictures of a procedure, that in windows is very verry rare...at least from my point of view anyway its very rare | Jun 04 20:16 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, I think the biggest problem for linux is avaiability of some VERY high profile apps that only have windows binaries | Jun 04 20:17 |
neighborlee | etc. | Jun 04 20:17 |
schestowitz | Special day for UNIX: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9133574 http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9133628 http://www.computerworlduk.com/technology/operating-systems/nix/in-depth/index.cfm?RSS&articleid=2281 http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9133696 | Jun 04 20:17 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, not to mention games...thats a huge one | Jun 04 20:17 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, fixable things..but its going to take alot of time I suspect. | Jun 04 20:17 |
schestowitz | Yeah, well.. people use consoles | Jun 04 20:18 |
schestowitz | Wine matures too | Jun 04 20:18 |
neighborlee | some do yes... | Jun 04 20:18 |
schestowitz | MS ain't happy about it | Jun 04 20:18 |
neighborlee | ive no doubt of that | Jun 04 20:18 |
neighborlee | wine does help alot yes | Jun 04 20:18 |
neighborlee | when it works | Jun 04 20:18 |
neighborlee | ymmv ;) | Jun 04 20:18 |
schestowitz | I don't use it TBH | Jun 04 20:18 |
neighborlee | I try to avoid it | Jun 04 20:18 |
neighborlee | appdb is very nice though | Jun 04 20:19 |
neighborlee | ah crud btw ;) | Jun 04 20:19 |
neighborlee | I saw ad last night,,about new 360 stuff | Jun 04 20:20 |
neighborlee | the new mat the want to use to replace controllers | Jun 04 20:20 |
neighborlee | wi look out ;) | Jun 04 20:20 |
neighborlee | wii | Jun 04 20:20 |
neighborlee | depends how good the control is I guess | Jun 04 20:20 |
schestowitz | Heh, well... | Jun 04 20:22 |
schestowitz | brb, gotta do some news | Jun 04 20:22 |
*amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-46-235.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 20:22 | |
neighborlee | k have fun ;0-0 | Jun 04 20:29 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: I'm feel like reclaiming some of my tax money | Jun 04 20:31 |
DaemonFC | by ripping some CDs from the public library which I as a taxpayer own | Jun 04 20:31 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 04 20:31 |
DaemonFC | heh | Jun 04 20:31 |
fewa | nicktastique, what programs in windows dont require something like that? | Jun 04 20:32 |
DaemonFC | don't require something like what? | Jun 04 20:32 |
fewa | all i can think of would be distrobution programs like steam, which as similar to linux AFAIK (never used), and CD-distrobuted binaries | Jun 04 20:32 |
fewa | programs in windows requires that sort of foo | Jun 04 20:32 |
fewa | of course the security error was just a little extra sarcasm | Jun 04 20:33 |
DaemonFC | Linux can use Steam | Jun 04 20:33 |
DaemonFC | I've bought games from Steam through Wine | Jun 04 20:33 |
DaemonFC | and Steam is being ported | Jun 04 20:33 |
DaemonFC | they have a near finished version already | Jun 04 20:33 |
DaemonFC | they shipped a Windows version on a CD that had some Linux binaries in the installation folder | Jun 04 20:34 |
DaemonFC | so they must be about ready to do something with Linux | Jun 04 20:34 |
DaemonFC | about damned time too | Jun 04 20:34 |
DaemonFC | there's nothing to stop a company like Steam from doing business on Linux | Jun 04 20:35 |
DaemonFC | I'm sure there's some profit in it for them or they wouldn't be porting it | Jun 04 20:35 |
DaemonFC | Steam is actually a DRM system that isn't malicious and won't bork your computer | Jun 04 20:37 |
Balrog | schestowitz: http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/theora/2009-May/002191.html for the (alpha) theora library | Jun 04 20:37 |
DaemonFC | and if you lose the disc you can just redownload anything you licensed | Jun 04 20:37 |
DaemonFC | and everything you install through steam updates itself | Jun 04 20:37 |
DaemonFC | so there's some value in it for the customer | Jun 04 20:37 |
schestowitz | YouTube UK has been f* recently | Jun 04 20:37 |
schestowitz | Now it's down | Jun 04 20:37 |
schestowitz | brb | Jun 04 20:37 |
fewa | DaemonFC, still no clear first sale rights | Jun 04 20:38 |
DaemonFC | It beats the shit out of stuff like Starforce which is basically a computer virus | Jun 04 20:38 |
fewa | SecureROM | Jun 04 20:38 |
DaemonFC | or Sony SecuROM which is getting closer every version | Jun 04 20:38 |
DaemonFC | well, you agree to that by doing business with them | Jun 04 20:39 |
DaemonFC | there's no nasty surprises when you bring it home and it has some SecuROM-style malware | Jun 04 20:39 |
schestowitz | Loads of great Linux news today. I'll post them first | Jun 04 20:51 |
schestowitz | Then expositions of dirty tricks | Jun 04 20:51 |
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-136-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 20:55 | |
_Hicham_ | Mr DaemonFC | Jun 04 20:55 |
_Hicham_ | alias the troll | Jun 04 20:55 |
_Hicham_ | howdy? | Jun 04 20:56 |
*mib_1v3q8a (i=442fe926@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-91a8fc0b465b2fe6) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 20:58 | |
*mib_1v3q8a has quit (Client Quit) | Jun 04 20:59 | |
schestowitz | Yo! | Jun 04 20:59 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: what's new? | Jun 04 20:59 |
neighborlee | lol | Jun 04 21:00 |
schestowitz | mib_1v3q8a> Russia launches antitrust probe of Microsoft: | Jun 04 21:00 |
schestowitz | <mib_1v3q8a> http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE5535802 | Jun 04 21:00 |
schestowitz | People are seeing it everywhere already | Jun 04 21:00 |
neighborlee | you guys are a funny bunch thats for sure | Jun 04 21:00 |
schestowitz | I'll combined it with the Spain post | Jun 04 21:00 |
neighborlee | never a DULL moment ..not ever ;00 | Jun 04 21:00 |
schestowitz | brb | Jun 04 21:00 |
neighborlee | woah nellie | Jun 04 21:00 |
neighborlee | hmmmm interesting article..woah nelllie | Jun 04 21:00 |
neighborlee | if that wins..they better HOPE this new control mechanism wins big..gets really popular ;0- | Jun 04 21:01 |
tessier | kentma: No fog or clouds at altitude. | Jun 04 21:02 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : I am looking for DaemonFC, have u seen him? | Jun 04 21:02 |
_Hicham_ | he is wanted by the Interpol | Jun 04 21:02 |
DaemonFC | fuck them | Jun 04 21:02 |
tessier | schestowitz: Unfortunately the chances of stopping MS in the most corrupt countries where there is no copyright enforcement are pretty slim. | Jun 04 21:03 |
tessier | Someone in Russia just wants their payday. | Jun 04 21:03 |
DaemonFC | Da Comrade | Jun 04 21:04 |
DaemonFC | :P | Jun 04 21:04 |
tessier | US/EU are their biggest market. And that's where it has to happen. | Jun 04 21:04 |
tessier | DaemonFC: That used to be a running joke in certain circles when I worked with the Air Force and we talked about something sensitive/secret. | Jun 04 21:05 |
DaemonFC | my dad was a missile technician | Jun 04 21:05 |
DaemonFC | NCO | Jun 04 21:05 |
schestowitz | tessier: yes, BUT... | Jun 04 21:05 |
schestowitz | They already deploy Linux at schools | Jun 04 21:05 |
schestowitz | And they have popular movements vs Microsoft | Jun 04 21:05 |
schestowitz | So it's getting complicated for them | Jun 04 21:05 |
schestowitz | tessier: yes, gas mostly, IIRC | Jun 04 21:06 |
tessier | what's gas? | Jun 04 21:06 |
DaemonFC | he wound up working at RCA then GE bought them then sold it to Thomson in the mid 90s | Jun 04 21:06 |
DaemonFC | then they fired the product design staff | Jun 04 21:06 |
DaemonFC | including him | Jun 04 21:06 |
DaemonFC | and then about 3 years later they fired everyone | Jun 04 21:07 |
DaemonFC | and moved the operations to Mexico | Jun 04 21:07 |
DaemonFC | then closed down Mexico | Jun 04 21:07 |
DaemonFC | and went to China | Jun 04 21:07 |
DaemonFC | they ended up taking him back on contract to get their Mexicali plant running | Jun 04 21:07 |
DaemonFC | then he went to work for Raytheon, then Caterpillar, now out of work again | Jun 04 21:08 |
DaemonFC | at 57 years old | Jun 04 21:08 |
DaemonFC | so forgive me for hating the people that do this shit | Jun 04 21:08 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 04 21:08 |
neighborlee | too hot powering down to avoid poor puter overheating..ttyl :) | Jun 04 21:09 |
*neighborlee (n=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving") | Jun 04 21:09 | |
DaemonFC | but if you handed me a gun and put me in front of the people responsible I'd have no reservations | Jun 04 21:09 |
DaemonFC | people like Jack Welch deserve to be......well use your imagination | Jun 04 21:11 |
DaemonFC | I certainly have | Jun 04 21:11 |
DaemonFC | speaking of Thomson however, they have the MP3 patents in the United States | Jun 04 21:12 |
DaemonFC | then in other countries Fruenhofer claims to | Jun 04 21:12 |
DaemonFC | so this is where the "Who do I buy licenses from and does it protect me?" comes in | Jun 04 21:12 |
schestowitz | tessier: Russia exports gas | Jun 04 21:13 |
DaemonFC | technically if I wanted to make a commercialized MP3 encoder or decoder, I'd have to pay MPEG-LA, Thomson, and FhG | Jun 04 21:13 |
schestowitz | To Europe too. I think Neelie and her agency did an investigation of corruption in this area 1-2 years ago | Jun 04 21:13 |
DaemonFC | or else I'd almost certainly trip over someones patents depending on where I did business | Jun 04 21:14 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: reserve death threats | Jun 04 21:14 |
schestowitz | <DaemonFC> but if you handed me a gun and put me in front of the people responsible I'd have no reservations | Jun 04 21:14 |
schestowitz | That's no acceptable here | Jun 04 21:14 |
schestowitz | You did this before | Jun 04 21:14 |
DaemonFC | that's a perfect example of why software patents are insane, no matter how many people you buy licenses from, someone could still sue you | Jun 04 21:14 |
schestowitz | Next time you do this you can be kicked out I'm afraid | Jun 04 21:14 |
schestowitz | you're becoming a liability | Jun 04 21:15 |
DaemonFC | so basically Thomson doesn't actually make anything | Jun 04 21:16 |
_Hicham_ | we have a real terrorist in this channel | Jun 04 21:16 |
schestowitz | Can't be | Jun 04 21:16 |
DaemonFC | they have one office in the United States and they consist of management and lawyer types and they're basically patent and copyright trolls | Jun 04 21:16 |
schestowitz | They tell us terrorists can only be "brown" | Jun 04 21:17 |
schestowitz | And they can't be English-speaking | Jun 04 21:17 |
schestowitz | That's the de facto interpretation of terrorist | Jun 04 21:17 |
schestowitz | http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/02/maine_man_tries.html | Jun 04 21:17 |
schestowitz | "Maine Man Tries to Build a Dirty Bomb | Jun 04 21:17 |
schestowitz | No one cares, probably because he isn't Muslim. White supremacist terrorism just isn't sexy these days." | Jun 04 21:17 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: That guy that shot the abortion doctor was a Christian Terrorist | Jun 04 21:18 |
DaemonFC | I say they should waterboard him | Jun 04 21:18 |
DaemonFC | send him to Gitmo | Jun 04 21:18 |
DaemonFC | it'll never happen though | Jun 04 21:18 |
*mtnd3w has quit ("Leaving") | Jun 04 21:19 | |
schestowitz | For info espionage? What for? | Jun 04 21:19 |
DaemonFC | he'll get some high priced lawyer with funding from churches and anti-abortion groups | Jun 04 21:19 |
schestowitz | maybe to fix ill fixation | Jun 04 21:19 |
DaemonFC | and get 2-3 years for "involuntary mansluaghter" | Jun 04 21:19 |
*ThistleWeb (n=gordon@87.113.80.174.plusnet.pte-ag2.dyn.plus.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 21:19 | |
schestowitz | About an invisible man demanding we don't do abortions | Jun 04 21:19 |
schestowitz | it's fine with eggs | Jun 04 21:19 |
schestowitz | When we do abortions to chicken we call it omlette | Jun 04 21:19 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: I was harassed by a group of Catholics when I went to see the movie Dogma | Jun 04 21:20 |
ThistleWeb | frying pans are instruments of torture | Jun 04 21:20 |
DaemonFC | they're terrified of a little sattire | Jun 04 21:20 |
ThistleWeb | as well as implements for producing some damn tasty but fattening grub | Jun 04 21:21 |
*_goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 21:21 | |
_goblin | hi all | Jun 04 21:21 |
_goblin | I hate Comet... | Jun 04 21:21 |
_goblin | I buy a Linpus Netbook... | Jun 04 21:21 |
DaemonFC | what in the name of Zeus's butthole is Linpus? | Jun 04 21:21 |
_goblin | and a 3 broadband dongle. I ask many times if its compat..."of course sir..>" | Jun 04 21:22 |
DaemonFC | it sounds like an STD | Jun 04 21:22 |
ThistleWeb | _goblin, I used to work there, a LONG time ago | Jun 04 21:22 |
_goblin | get it home.... | Jun 04 21:22 |
_goblin | and as I thought, its Windows only. | Jun 04 21:22 |
DaemonFC | Wine | Jun 04 21:22 |
_goblin | Good idea. | Jun 04 21:22 |
_goblin | one problem...it wont connect to my wireless network.... | Jun 04 21:23 |
ThistleWeb | DaemonFC, Linpus is a netbook Linux distro some vendors ship with | Jun 04 21:23 |
DaemonFC | Windows apps should have access through whatever you connect to through Linux | Jun 04 21:23 |
_goblin | sorry? | Jun 04 21:23 |
DaemonFC | you mean it needs to access the internet right? | Jun 04 21:24 |
_goblin | ah...misread... | Jun 04 21:24 |
DaemonFC | it should just work | Jun 04 21:24 |
_goblin | it wont connect to my wireless.... | Jun 04 21:24 |
_goblin | and the dongle has preloaded Windows software on it. | Jun 04 21:24 |
ThistleWeb | most devices have their own little trial or value added apps for windows only | Jun 04 21:25 |
_goblin | the real fun came when I rang customer services... | Jun 04 21:25 |
_goblin | for 3 broadband... | Jun 04 21:25 |
_goblin | it was like trying to talk to a Romulan without a universal translator. | Jun 04 21:25 |
ThistleWeb | I take it for granted than any pre-loaded software with a device will be wiped as it won't work in Linux, even if it does break the mould and is actually decent | Jun 04 21:25 |
ThistleWeb | the bummer comes when it won't work without that software | Jun 04 21:26 |
_goblin | so now Im left with a dilema. | Jun 04 21:26 |
_goblin | do I go for an XP netbook? | Jun 04 21:26 |
_goblin | since I want to be online next week when Im down in Poole at my holiday house. | Jun 04 21:27 |
ThistleWeb | sure, and get it in writing exactly where to claim your licence money back | Jun 04 21:27 |
DaemonFC | yeah, you can usually ignore the CD in any event | Jun 04 21:27 |
ThistleWeb | from what I know, as long as you never boot into your new pc and accept the licence they have no choice but to refund you the price of the licence, although they wuill do the usual and give you the runaround | Jun 04 21:28 |
DaemonFC | my motherboard had a crapware CD that came with it | Jun 04 21:28 |
ThistleWeb | it's the vendors who pay, not Microsoft | Jun 04 21:28 |
DaemonFC | so? | Jun 04 21:28 |
ThistleWeb | in case they try to tell you to contact Microsoft | Jun 04 21:28 |
DaemonFC | it's money | Jun 04 21:28 |
_goblin | Sorry, in my rant I lost the conversation....Are you talking about getting your money back on a Windows OEM? | Jun 04 21:29 |
ThistleWeb | _goblin, I was, yes | Jun 04 21:29 |
ThistleWeb | if you have to buy it with XP, let them know you dont want windows and get instructions on how to claim it back | Jun 04 21:30 |
_Hicham_ | I don't know why people don't just buy Netbooks and Notebooks preloaded with Linux | Jun 04 21:30 |
_goblin | By law (and Microsoft can say what they will) you can demand a refund...that goes with any software and it matters not if you've initialized or registered it. | Jun 04 21:30 |
_goblin | thats UK. | Jun 04 21:30 |
ThistleWeb | _Hicham_, perhaps Microsoft leaning on retailers so the Linux versions are permenantly "out of stock" | Jun 04 21:31 |
ThistleWeb | or the price of Windows goes up if retailers are disloyal to Microsoft by selling Linux | Jun 04 21:31 |
_goblin | In respect of Linpus on the netbook, its not at all bad...Fedora isn't it? | Jun 04 21:31 |
ThistleWeb | _goblin, I believe it is Fedora yes | Jun 04 21:32 |
_goblin | shame it not able to get online :( | Jun 04 21:32 |
_Hicham_ | _goblin : what wireless card do u have? | Jun 04 21:32 |
_Hicham_ | what brand? | Jun 04 21:32 |
_Hicham_ | and where is the big G? | Jun 04 21:33 |
ThistleWeb | it may be worth trying different distros, another might pick up the dongle and let you online | Jun 04 21:33 |
_goblin | I have a netgear router, in respect of whats in the netbook I dont know. | Jun 04 21:33 |
_goblin | (that Im trying to connect to) | Jun 04 21:33 |
_goblin | I have my main PC hardwired. | Jun 04 21:33 |
_goblin | and the secondary one aswell. | Jun 04 21:34 |
zoobab01 | http://stopsoftwarepatents.org/forum/t-160633/european-patent-office-refuses-spanish-amicus-brief-against-software-patents | Jun 04 21:34 |
_Hicham_ | basically, if Fedora fails, no other distro would | Jun 04 21:34 |
_Hicham_ | but | Jun 04 21:34 |
_Hicham_ | u can try ndiswrapper | Jun 04 21:34 |
_Hicham_ | did u try ndiswrapper? | Jun 04 21:35 |
_goblin | no | Jun 04 21:35 |
schestowitz | [News] Mandriva GNU/Linux 2010 is Coming, Community Asked for Ideas < http://www.linux-wizard.net/blog-community_ideas_proposal_for_mandriva_20100-289.html > | Jun 04 21:35 |
_Hicham_ | are u sure it is a fedora? | Jun 04 21:35 |
schestowitz | zoobab01: it accepts them in German | Jun 04 21:35 |
ThistleWeb | I dunno, Fedora are kinda hardline about free drivers, some hardware will struggle with those restrictions | Jun 04 21:35 |
_goblin | yeah....apparently Linpus is fedora... | Jun 04 21:35 |
_Hicham_ | is there yum? | Jun 04 21:35 |
ThistleWeb | certainly as far as the default goes | Jun 04 21:35 |
_goblin | yes (after struggling to get xterm to run) | Jun 04 21:36 |
_goblin | no icon for it and not immediately obvious how to run a command | Jun 04 21:36 |
schestowitz | zoobab01: thanks,. got it | Jun 04 21:36 |
*balzac (n=balzac@173-45-238-81.slicehost.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 21:37 | |
_goblin | ctrl F2 didnt work | Jun 04 21:37 |
ThistleWeb | which pre-loaded netbook linux was criticised for hiding the terminal? | Jun 04 21:37 |
balzac | ^_^ | Jun 04 21:37 |
_Hicham_ | _Goblin : try this in xterm : lspci | grep Network Controller | Jun 04 21:37 |
_goblin | ok... | Jun 04 21:37 |
balzac | Is Microsoft bankrupt yet? | Jun 04 21:37 |
_goblin | lol. | Jun 04 21:38 |
schestowitz | Not yet | Jun 04 21:38 |
_goblin | it hung... | Jun 04 21:38 |
ThistleWeb | balzac, nup but keep urging people to buy XBOX's and they will be | Jun 04 21:38 |
schestowitz | balzac: it takes loans now | Jun 04 21:38 |
_goblin | Windows deja vu. | Jun 04 21:38 |
schestowitz | Not lookin' good for them | Jun 04 21:38 |
schestowitz | Lookin' for cheap labour too | Jun 04 21:38 |
balzac | I wish I could get a loan for www.disruptech.com | Jun 04 21:38 |
schestowitz | And killing 13 products in the past 8 months | Jun 04 21:38 |
ThistleWeb | I said it ages ago in other places, but 2009 is the start of the end for Microsoft | Jun 04 21:38 |
balzac | Disruptech is going to gobble up Microsoft's market share | Jun 04 21:38 |
ThistleWeb | nothing I've seen changes my opinion | Jun 04 21:38 |
schestowitz | ThistleWeb: yes, XBox division runs at a loss, still | Jun 04 21:39 |
schestowitz | Having amassed about 7bn in losses so far | Jun 04 21:39 |
ThistleWeb | a lot of buisnesses have handuffed themselves to the Microsoft Titanic | Jun 04 21:39 |
schestowitz | Citrix | Jun 04 21:39 |
balzac | Microsoft is like the Titanic | Jun 04 21:39 |
schestowitz | balzac: ask again in 3 months :-) | Jun 04 21:39 |
ThistleWeb | some will be able to adapt, but others have burned too many bridges | Jun 04 21:39 |
schestowitz | Earnings at MSFT are down 32% | Jun 04 21:40 |
balzac | So big that people think it can't fail | Jun 04 21:40 |
schestowitz | Will be the same next quarter | Jun 04 21:40 |
schestowitz | They schedules Vista7 release | Jun 04 21:40 |
schestowitz | Around the VERY SAME day as results | Jun 04 21:40 |
schestowitz | End od Oct | Jun 04 21:40 |
schestowitz | *of | Jun 04 21:40 |
balzac | I'm going to fight like a hungry hippo for the market share Microsoft relinquishes | Jun 04 21:40 |
balzac | I've earned my share of the carcass | Jun 04 21:40 |
schestowitz | So the chorus will be: | Jun 04 21:40 |
_Hicham_ | _Goblin : lspci | grep Network | Jun 04 21:40 |
balzac | I'll run away with one of the haunches | Jun 04 21:41 |
schestowitz | Well, we suck badly, BUT....... {as the famous tactics goes} now we have Wow7 | Jun 04 21:41 |
ThistleWeb | balzac, on all fours with a button on your ass triggering a long neck huh? | Jun 04 21:41 |
balzac | ThistleWeb: sort of, except for that I'm pressing the button, and the hippo is my business | Jun 04 21:41 |
ThistleWeb | lol | Jun 04 21:41 |
_Hicham_ | yes, Disruptech is gonna eat them all | Jun 04 21:41 |
_goblin | It seems this netbook is not liking anything now....Its hanging on boot! | Jun 04 21:41 |
balzac | Aaawww m*therf*ckin' yeeaahhh! | Jun 04 21:42 |
balzac | Disruptech is the next big thing. | Jun 04 21:42 |
ThistleWeb | Hungry Hippos does have an interesting lesson to teach kids..."aim for the balls" | Jun 04 21:42 |
balzac | Hungry Hippos is a very subversive game for communists to play | Jun 04 21:42 |
balzac | you get to see what happens if you don't act out of self-interest, rapidly, forcefully, and repeatedly. | Jun 04 21:43 |
ThistleWeb | lol | Jun 04 21:43 |
balzac | It's fascinating | Jun 04 21:43 |
balzac | you gotta slam that button fast | Jun 04 21:43 |
balzac | I grew up on a "commune" in which things were rationed | Jun 04 21:44 |
balzac | Hungry Hippos is a lesson I'll never forget. It was an omen which forewarned about the economic collapse of our little economy. | Jun 04 21:44 |
ThistleWeb | there's only limited resources | Jun 04 21:45 |
ThistleWeb | grab what ya can, fuck everyone else | Jun 04 21:45 |
balzac | Well, limited resources can be enough if people are mellow, but if there's going to be a fight, the fight will require more. | Jun 04 21:45 |
ThistleWeb | seems like a corporate boardroom teaching aid | Jun 04 21:45 |
balzac | in that case, attack the greediest to establish your right to control the spigot | Jun 04 21:45 |
balzac | What if you're in the desert with 1000 people in the sun | Jun 04 21:45 |
balzac | and just a dribble of water coming out of the spigot | Jun 04 21:46 |
balzac | if everyone holds still and patiently waits, distributing the water, everyone can stay hydrated | Jun 04 21:46 |
balzac | but if people fight, they sweat, and water is spilled as people fight | Jun 04 21:46 |
balzac | then 500 people will dehydrate | Jun 04 21:46 |
balzac | in that case, order is the primary social good | Jun 04 21:47 |
ThistleWeb | hence the use of the gun | Jun 04 21:47 |
balzac | instantly squash anyone who cuts in line | Jun 04 21:47 |
_Hicham_ | Disruptech is the future | Jun 04 21:47 |
balzac | yeah man | Jun 04 21:47 |
balzac | eye of the tiger | Jun 04 21:48 |
_Hicham_ | the ripper of the stripper | Jun 04 21:48 |
balzac | Not a ripper of any kind | Jun 04 21:48 |
*balzac puts on Polo sunglasses | Jun 04 21:48 | |
balzac | I'm the "lady-whisperer" | Jun 04 21:49 |
_Hicham_ | the man with cows that is gonna kick windows | Jun 04 21:50 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : do u have a football club? | Jun 04 21:50 |
_Hicham_ | _goblin : did it boot now? | Jun 04 21:52 |
balzac | ? | Jun 04 22:00 |
balzac | can anyone visit www.fsdaily.com ? | Jun 04 22:00 |
schestowitz | I've just realised that not ever paying Intel would be hard because of x86 patents (even AMD). We need ARM. | Jun 04 22:01 |
zoobab01 | Google for nnarm | Jun 04 22:02 |
schestowitz | balzac: been down for two days | Jun 04 22:02 |
_Hicham_ | balzac : not working | Jun 04 22:02 |
schestowitz | Same with FS magazine | Jun 04 22:02 |
zoobab01 | http://www.foo.be/docs-free/nnARM/ | Jun 04 22:02 |
balzac | wonder why | Jun 04 22:02 |
schestowitz | zoobab01: cool. | Jun 04 22:02 |
balzac | free software magazine as well? | Jun 04 22:02 |
balzac | wtf? | Jun 04 22:02 |
schestowitz | Same server | Jun 04 22:02 |
_Hicham_ | been ddos'ed maybe like BN | Jun 04 22:02 |
schestowitz | Maybe | Jun 04 22:03 |
schestowitz | They were attacked by the same slime | Jun 04 22:03 |
schestowitz | For supporting BN | Jun 04 22:03 |
schestowitz | They started attack FSDaily | Jun 04 22:03 |
balzac | disruptech will be next, I think | Jun 04 22:03 |
schestowitz | Then FSDaily issued a form of warning | Jun 04 22:03 |
_Hicham_ | Disruptech will resist | Jun 04 22:03 |
schestowitz | DusruptSuruptech.com | Jun 04 22:03 |
_Hicham_ | coz it is full of strippers | Jun 04 22:03 |
schestowitz | DusruptDisruptech.com | Jun 04 22:04 |
_Hicham_ | no one will ddos strippers | Jun 04 22:04 |
zoobab01 | I think the author of nnARM received a letter for patent infringement from ARM | Jun 04 22:04 |
zoobab01 | ask adulau at foo.be if you want to know more | Jun 04 22:04 |
zoobab01 | http://www.google.be/search?q=nnarm+patent&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a | Jun 04 22:05 |
balzac | FSDaily issued a warning? | Jun 04 22:05 |
zoobab01 | A clone of the ARM7 32-bit RISC processor core, previously available free for download from the Internet, has been taken down or hidden pending discussions between the core's designer and a Chinese representative of ARM Holdings plc (Cambridge, England). | Jun 04 22:05 |
balzac | I think this bodes well for BN, FSDaily and FSM | Jun 04 22:05 |
balzac | Disruptech as well, since the focus of Disruptech is aligned with those three publications | Jun 04 22:05 |
_Hicham_ | no, they all like u | Jun 04 22:06 |
_Hicham_ | they won't think of such a think | Jun 04 22:06 |
_Hicham_ | u are a peaceful man | Jun 04 22:07 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz have been attacked because he is a warrior | Jun 04 22:07 |
_Hicham_ | accustomed to big battles | Jun 04 22:07 |
_Hicham_ | he is the gladiator of FOSS | Jun 04 22:08 |
balzac | _Hicham_: Roy does a hell of a job, but I've got his back. | Jun 04 22:08 |
_Hicham_ | woooooaaah schestowitz | Jun 04 22:08 |
balzac | It's like Tango and Cash. He's Stallone and I'm Burt Russel. | Jun 04 22:08 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz is gonna kill em all | Jun 04 22:08 |
balzac | Kurt Russel | Jun 04 22:08 |
balzac | actually, I'll be able to say that once I've got my business off the ground | Jun 04 22:09 |
schestowitz | Stallone was doped up on steroids | Jun 04 22:10 |
_Hicham_ | so he lost him manhood | Jun 04 22:10 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz doesn't use steroids | Jun 04 22:10 |
balzac | I didn't mean to imply that Roy uses steroids | Jun 04 22:11 |
_Hicham_ | he is strong by nature | Jun 04 22:11 |
_Hicham_ | been born like that | Jun 04 22:11 |
balzac | but I wanted to be Kurt Russel instead of Stallone | Jun 04 22:11 |
balzac | Big Trouble in Little China was good | Jun 04 22:11 |
_Hicham_ | u want to be balzac | Jun 04 22:11 |
_Hicham_ | at the end | Jun 04 22:11 |
balzac | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb4b4aEbYAo | Jun 04 22:12 |
_Hicham_ | balzac : do u use official Adobe Flash Player? | Jun 04 22:13 |
balzac | unfortunately | Jun 04 22:14 |
balzac | I found the content was too much to ignore | Jun 04 22:14 |
_Hicham_ | u didn't try swfdec or gnash? | Jun 04 22:14 |
balzac | I've said before, I disagree with the idea of missing out on content because of proprietary codecs | Jun 04 22:15 |
balzac | I did try them | Jun 04 22:15 |
balzac | my asus eee is under-powered even with flash player to watch most youtube content or similar | Jun 04 22:15 |
_goblin | sorry about that...AFK....I didn't realize BB was on tonight. | Jun 04 22:15 |
balzac | gnash and swfdec aren't very good | Jun 04 22:15 |
balzac | I think firefox is offering a viable alternative | Jun 04 22:16 |
balzac | with html 5 <video> tag | Jun 04 22:16 |
balzac | firefox 3.5 | Jun 04 22:16 |
balzac | I don't like the idea of gnash or icetea chasing moving targets with flash and java specifications | Jun 04 22:16 |
balzac | I think proprietary codecs should be attacked using more subversive methods | Jun 04 22:17 |
balzac | breaking copyright law and challenging the DMCA | Jun 04 22:17 |
balzac | I'm very offended by proprietary codecs | Jun 04 22:17 |
_Hicham_ | Youtube and Dailymotion are moving to html5 | Jun 04 22:18 |
balzac | sweet | Jun 04 22:18 |
_Hicham_ | http://www.youtube.com/html5 | Jun 04 22:18 |
_Hicham_ | http://www.dailymotion.com/openvideodemo | Jun 04 22:19 |
_Hicham_ | but Richard Stallman is afraid of html5 | Jun 04 22:20 |
fewa | why? | Jun 04 22:20 |
fewa | running apps on others computers | Jun 04 22:20 |
fewa | weakening of GPL due to ASP loophole | Jun 04 22:20 |
balzac | _Hicham_: I'd say RMS is perpetually vigilant, not neccessarily afraid. | Jun 04 22:20 |
_Hicham_ | because with HTML5, we can right more obfuscated code | Jun 04 22:20 |
fewa | _Hicham_, ????? explain yourself | Jun 04 22:21 |
zoobab01 | HTML5 allows a binary object in <object> | Jun 04 22:21 |
zoobab01 | or obfusctaed javascript code | Jun 04 22:21 |
balzac | interesting | Jun 04 22:21 |
zoobab01 | basically SaaS is a threat to freee software | Jun 04 22:21 |
zoobab01 | but FSF lost the battle by not including Affero clauses in the GPLv3 by default | Jun 04 22:22 |
balzac | maybe the <object> tag should be a <blob> | Jun 04 22:22 |
balzac | blob tag | Jun 04 22:22 |
zoobab01 | flash is using the object tag | Jun 04 22:22 |
fewa | google is fighting AGPL | Jun 04 22:22 |
zoobab01 | they were | Jun 04 22:22 |
balzac | google is trying to be the new microsoft | Jun 04 22:22 |
zoobab01 | AGPL is not even allowed on google code | Jun 04 22:23 |
fewa | ^^ | Jun 04 22:23 |
_Hicham_ | Google is not interested in any principle | Jun 04 22:23 |
_Hicham_ | just money | Jun 04 22:23 |
_Hicham_ | just like Microsoft | Jun 04 22:23 |
_Hicham_ | when will people get that? | Jun 04 22:23 |
balzac | but isn't it dumb for google to basically make it clear to everyone that the AGPL is like a silver bullet? | Jun 04 22:23 |
balzac | By refusing to host any AGPL-licensed project, they showed their ideology is not very philosophical and actually clings to a certain kind of license. | Jun 04 22:24 |
zoobab01 | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/11/google_bans_aero/ | Jun 04 22:24 |
zoobab01 | they lobbied against AGPL when it was discusssed to be by default in the GPLv3 | Jun 04 22:25 |
*DaemonFC has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | Jun 04 22:25 | |
balzac | There's always GPLv4... | Jun 04 22:26 |
balzac | I think the GPLv3 is well designed. If the license is too aggressive, it could slow adoption. It's fine to let standard business practices catch up with v2 of the license while more innovative businesses embrace v3 | Jun 04 22:27 |
*_Hicham_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jun 04 22:27 | |
balzac | But it's ultimately not about market share, it's about not compromising computer users' freedom | Jun 04 22:28 |
balzac | "It is also not okay to host an AGPL covered program on code.google.com [...] | Jun 04 22:30 |
balzac | So sadly, the answer is to remove your project and host somewhere else like SF or Savannah." | Jun 04 22:30 |
balzac | Chris DiBona, the Open Source Programs Manager at Google on Google Groups: | Jun 04 22:30 |
balzac | http://code.google.com/p/clipperz/ | Jun 04 22:30 |
balzac | what kind of crap is that? | Jun 04 22:31 |
balzac | I believe the technical term for that is "chicken shit". | Jun 04 22:31 |
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-136-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 22:32 | |
balzac | That leaves plenty of room for a company like Disruptech to begin gobbling up everyone else's marketshare | Jun 04 22:32 |
balzac | Aggressively pro-FSF, pro-GNU, pro-Free Software | Jun 04 22:33 |
balzac | I just need an investor to share my vision | Jun 04 22:33 |
_Hicham_ | pro-schestowitz | Jun 04 22:33 |
balzac | indeed | Jun 04 22:33 |
_Hicham_ | and underline that | Jun 04 22:34 |
balzac | _Hicham_: that's not even a question | Jun 04 22:34 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz is a best-seller brand | Jun 04 22:34 |
_Hicham_ | just paste schestowitz on ur website, and u r done | Jun 04 22:34 |
_Hicham_ | all chicks will hurry to ur website | Jun 04 22:36 |
balzac | _Hicham_: don't be a hater | Jun 04 22:36 |
balzac | Roy, did I mentioned I'm unbanned from #ubuntu? | Jun 04 22:37 |
_Hicham_ | why balzac? | Jun 04 22:37 |
balzac | _Hicham_: they let me back in. | Jun 04 22:38 |
_Hicham_ | because u r off-topic? | Jun 04 22:38 |
_Hicham_ | as always | Jun 04 22:38 |
balzac | _Hicham_: dry your eyes, young man. | Jun 04 22:38 |
balzac | There's only one thing I've said here which has ruffled a few feathers. | Jun 04 22:38 |
balzac | I've suggested that some people's rhetoric was too juvenile and wasn't helping Roy's important work. | Jun 04 22:39 |
balzac | That was commendable, because Roy's work is informative and important, not just emotional static. | Jun 04 22:39 |
_Hicham_ | what do u mean balzac? | Jun 04 22:39 |
balzac | I've criticized anyone who I've seen step outside the boundaries of decency when discussing the opposition | Jun 04 22:40 |
balzac | including self-criticism | Jun 04 22:40 |
balzac | but one guy whom I've not seen step outside those boundaries of decency is Roy himself | Jun 04 22:40 |
schestowitz | balzac: good news | Jun 04 22:41 |
schestowitz | Ubuntu is not very open to community I gather | Jun 04 22:41 |
schestowitz | The whole Mono issue, y'know..? | Jun 04 22:41 |
schestowitz | BTW I'm slow to read here cause I do something else ATM | Jun 04 22:41 |
_Hicham_ | Ubuntu has never been open to the community | Jun 04 22:41 |
_Hicham_ | since it is controlled by Canonical | Jun 04 22:42 |
_Hicham_ | we know schestowitz | Jun 04 22:42 |
MinceR | gn | Jun 04 22:42 |
balzac | Well, they let me back in because I was struggling to support my mother's new Dell mini with Ubuntu on it. | Jun 04 22:42 |
_Hicham_ | great balzac | Jun 04 22:43 |
_Hicham_ | gn MinceR | Jun 04 22:43 |
balzac | I let them know I didn't take anything personally | Jun 04 22:43 |
balzac | nor had I witheld my personal identity | Jun 04 22:43 |
balzac | but I did say, "don't make me email Mr. Shuttleworth" | Jun 04 22:44 |
balzac | I don't want to waste his time with this silliness | Jun 04 22:44 |
_Hicham_ | wow, kinda charismatic | Jun 04 22:45 |
balzac | they saw I was not trying to score any points on their Ops, and I agreed to keep focused on technical questions in the support channel | Jun 04 22:45 |
_Hicham_ | I don't know why u always have pbs with Ops | Jun 04 22:45 |
balzac | _Hicham_: why? it's because IRC ops are traditionally prickly and imperious | Jun 04 22:45 |
balzac | having been using IRC over a decade, I'm accustomed to it, yet still not accepting. | Jun 04 22:46 |
_Hicham_ | maybe u need to set-up ur own irc channel | Jun 04 22:46 |
balzac | Roy is quite different with his academic approach. | Jun 04 22:46 |
_Hicham_ | and see ur democracy over there | Jun 04 22:46 |
_Hicham_ | Roy is an exception | Jun 04 22:47 |
balzac | _Hicham_: I'm too busy with work | Jun 04 22:47 |
balzac | that's why you don't see me around here much, although I enjoy the inside information. | Jun 04 22:47 |
_Hicham_ | I know | Jun 04 22:47 |
balzac | Information, such as to find out FSDaily.com and FreeSoftwareMagazine.com are being DDOSed | Jun 04 22:50 |
balzac | Like the people who've targetted BoycottNovell.com, they're using tactics designed to dispirit Dave and Tony. | Jun 04 22:51 |
*yuhong (n=chatzill@pool-96-240-114-114.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 22:51 | |
balzac | They seek to cause frustration | Jun 04 22:51 |
balzac | their hope is to get Free Software activists so frustrated, that we say un-diplomatic things and thereby isolate ourselves | Jun 04 22:52 |
balzac | That's why they say ridiculous things tabloid crap like "sex-change" about their opponents | Jun 04 22:52 |
yuhong | Another example of "puppet press": | Jun 04 22:53 |
balzac | It's juvenile, intended to degrade the academic credibility of the debate | Jun 04 22:53 |
yuhong | http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=169450&cid=14122939 | Jun 04 22:53 |
yuhong | "This rather reminds me of Wall Street's desperate attempts to declare the Google auction IPO a failure, even after Google got more than twice the dollars per share than they would have in an investment bank-priced IPO. If you can't beat them, have your puppet press hang an ugly label on them." | Jun 04 22:53 |
*_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving.") | Jun 04 22:56 | |
balzac | I'm still looking forward to Google crashing through Microsoft's defensive line, causing a total collapse for M$ | Jun 04 22:57 |
balzac | Google is still better than M$ by a long-shot | Jun 04 22:57 |
neonfloss | google scares me more | Jun 04 22:57 |
neonfloss | its really powerful | Jun 04 22:58 |
yuhong | Certainly. | Jun 04 22:58 |
yuhong | No, Google is not perfect, but there is way too much FUD about it. | Jun 04 22:59 |
yuhong | As well as people overblowing even minor mistakes. | Jun 04 22:59 |
yuhong | Take the Google-China issue for example. | Jun 04 22:59 |
balzac | I still fear Microsoft more | Jun 04 22:59 |
yuhong | It was way overblown | Jun 04 22:59 |
_goblin | In my opinion, the biggest threat to Linux/FOSS is Canonical. | Jun 04 22:59 |
balzac | they're the dream-crushers | Jun 04 22:59 |
balzac | _goblin: why? | Jun 04 23:00 |
_goblin | I said it a while ago... | Jun 04 23:00 |
_goblin | Forgetting for a minute the mono issue... | Jun 04 23:00 |
_goblin | just look at what happens to a company (any company) that gets market share.... | Jun 04 23:00 |
_goblin | we see Microsoft...enough said... | Jun 04 23:00 |
balzac | _goblin: that's business | Jun 04 23:00 |
_goblin | and now we look at Google which was all nicely recieved when it was a small firm... | Jun 04 23:01 |
balzac | but the GNU licenses have been subverting business as usual for many years now | Jun 04 23:01 |
balzac | that's why they call the GNU licenses "disruptive technology" | Jun 04 23:01 |
yuhong | BS! | Jun 04 23:01 |
_goblin | can anyone honestly say they would believe Canonical or any firm would behave if it had the market domination? | Jun 04 23:01 |
_goblin | Forgetting about any allegations against Microsoft itself (and its practices).... | Jun 04 23:02 |
*Azerthoth (n=azerthot@unaffliated/azerthoth) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 23:02 | |
balzac | _goblin: it depends on the degree to which share-holders take away the executive's autonomy to run the business based on brand credibility and long-term strategy vs quarterly results | Jun 04 23:02 |
Azerthoth | Roy you awake? | Jun 04 23:02 |
_goblin | Is it possible that Vista is maybe more the product of its own popularity rather than a directed effort by Microsoft to release a rubbish OS? | Jun 04 23:03 |
balzac | Any business can have the value extracted from it by the same old business practices | Jun 04 23:03 |
_goblin | Let me explain.... | Jun 04 23:03 |
Azerthoth | Havent been to your site to look, but the fedora comment is incorrect in regards to dropping mono | Jun 04 23:03 |
Azerthoth | http://www.archivum.info/fedora-desktop-list@redhat.com/2009-04/msg00005.html | Jun 04 23:03 |
_goblin | Who mine? | Jun 04 23:03 |
yuhong | balzac: On shareholders, I know what you are talking about! | Jun 04 23:04 |
balzac | yuhong: care to elaborate on the "BS"? | Jun 04 23:04 |
balzac | yuhong: yeah, it's a very common disease of publicly-traded companies. | Jun 04 23:04 |
balzac | I call it "Bureaucratic Sclerosis" | Jun 04 23:04 |
_goblin | I think Vista is what it is because Microsoft pandered (or tried to) to every user who wanted a one click fix.... | Jun 04 23:04 |
_goblin | I think Microsoft tried to be jack of all trades and ended up master of none, thats why we see Vista the way it is. | Jun 04 23:05 |
yuhong | And unfortunately it has a history dating to the 1980s. | Jun 04 23:05 |
balzac | Microsoft is suffering from the ego-identification of its top executives with archaic software licenses.. | Jun 04 23:05 |
_goblin | My fear is, that should mass migration move to one Linux distro, the same would happen.... | Jun 04 23:05 |
*nicktastique has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | Jun 04 23:05 | |
ThistleWeb | actually Windows works perfect for it's customers, end users are just under the PR fed illusion that THEY are the customers | Jun 04 23:05 |
*nicktastic (n=nick@unaffiliated/nicktastic) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 23:06 | |
ThistleWeb | Microsoft's customers has always been other companies | Jun 04 23:06 |
ThistleWeb | other corporate interests | Jun 04 23:06 |
balzac | For too long, they've disparaged more advanced, socially-engaging, freedom-respecting licenses, and now Microsoft has painted themselves into a corner, as the poster-boys of archaic software licenses and backwards thinking. | Jun 04 23:06 |
balzac | It's pitiful | Jun 04 23:06 |
yuhong | BTW, on licenses, this would be a good time to bring up the Open Letter to Hobbyists. | Jun 04 23:06 |
yuhong | By Bill Gates. | Jun 04 23:06 |
*Azerthoth (n=azerthot@unaffliated/azerthoth) has left #boycottnovell ("Read error: 666 (No Route to Hell)") | Jun 04 23:07 | |
yuhong | Why do you think the Free Software Movement was started in the first place back in 1983 by Stallman. | Jun 04 23:07 |
ThistleWeb | imagine if DMCA, DRM etc was around when Gates and Jobs were tinkering with hardware to make soemthing work | Jun 04 23:07 |
balzac | So long, they laughed at RMS from the decks of yachts, from fancy corporate board rooms, and from private jets, and yet GNU licenses are eating Microsoft's market share like a fire in dried grass. | Jun 04 23:07 |
ThistleWeb | they'd have their asses handed to them on a plate | Jun 04 23:08 |
balzac | yuhong ++ | Jun 04 23:08 |
ThistleWeb | niether Apple or Microsoft would have gotten off the ground | Jun 04 23:08 |
balzac | Bill Gates' "Open Letter to Hobbyists" is the antithesis to Stallman's "GNU Manifesto" | Jun 04 23:08 |
yuhong | Also look at when IBM adopted it's OCO policy back in 1983. | Jun 04 23:09 |
balzac | People mistakenly pair off Gates vs Torvalds, or even more silly, Gates vs Jobs | Jun 04 23:09 |
balzac | It's Gates vs RMS | Jun 04 23:09 |
balzac | Gates vs Stallman is the battle of the software heavyweights | Jun 04 23:09 |
yuhong | From http://www.virtualdub.org/blog/pivot/entry.php?id=193: | Jun 04 23:09 |
yuhong | "I suspect that a few too many teams hitched a ride on Windows Vista to get their stuff pushed out to desktops, like .NET Framework 3.0." | Jun 04 23:09 |
yuhong | By BS, I meant bullshit. | Jun 04 23:12 |
balzac | yeah, i figured that much | Jun 04 23:12 |
balzac | Microsoft seems to take very little pride in their software | Jun 04 23:13 |
yuhong | I think it is matter of which business tactics are used. | Jun 04 23:13 |
schestowitz | <Azerthoth> is my hater | Jun 04 23:14 |
balzac | what are his software sympathies like? | Jun 04 23:17 |
*mib_r3xm5l (i=4e95e44e@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-529f19debee86fce) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 23:18 | |
balzac | I like to profile the partisan hacks in the debate over software freedom | Jun 04 23:19 |
schestowitz | Stalker too.... from #phoronix: | Jun 04 23:19 |
schestowitz | <Azerthoth> whois schestowitz | Jun 04 23:19 |
schestowitz | <Azerthoth> hate it when I drop the leading / | Jun 04 23:19 |
schestowitz | <schestowitz> :-) | Jun 04 23:19 |
schestowitz | * ech0s7 has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jun 04 23:19 |
schestowitz | <Azerthoth> schestowitz Roy, I couldnt for the life of me spell Novell for some reason, had to get the channel spelling from the /whois | Jun 04 23:19 |
balzac | well, whois only reveals information you've chosen to share | Jun 04 23:20 |
yuhong | schestwitz: If you dig the IRC logs, you will find my discussion on Linux boot-time rootkits. | Jun 04 23:20 |
yuhong | Guess why I discussed this. | Jun 04 23:20 |
balzac | Roy, I was more disturbed by what a few questions uncovered with some of the regulars | Jun 04 23:21 |
yuhong | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/23/vista-7-cannot-be-fixed/ | Jun 04 23:21 |
balzac | I forget which one, but I asked him about his attitudes re: RMS and he went completely unhinged | Jun 04 23:21 |
yuhong | Guess what was discussed to prevent this. | Jun 04 23:22 |
yuhong | Trusted boot, which uses the same tech that can be used for DRM. | Jun 04 23:22 |
*mib_r3xm5l has quit (Client Quit) | Jun 04 23:22 | |
balzac | schestowitz: was it DaemonFC who flipped his lid about his misconceptions on RMS' political opinions? | Jun 04 23:24 |
balzac | I was like "wow, look at what lurks beneath the debate on software licenses". | Jun 04 23:25 |
balzac | A burning hatred for the author of the GPL, based on lots of misinformation... | Jun 04 23:26 |
balzac | sometimes your regulars are weirder than your trolls | Jun 04 23:26 |
balzac | I don't care if they're bitterly angry at RMS or Gates, you can only get so angry about software without becoming a wierdo. | Jun 04 23:27 |
balzac | Eric Raymond has crazy political opinions | Jun 04 23:29 |
balzac | That gets me thinking about how many "open source" types are driven by right-wing political sympathies against the Free Software and GNU brands by ideology unrelated to the debate on software freedom | Jun 04 23:31 |
balzac | What if they're just mad because RMS said something Chomsky-esque about US imperialism or irresponsible economic policy? | Jun 04 23:31 |
yuhong | More similar BS from http://battellemedia.com/archives/004911.php: | Jun 04 23:32 |
balzac | What if they're not concerned with freedom for computer users - in that case, they're being intellectually dishonest to pretend they're motivated by different principles on software licensing, when in fact they've a void of principles on that issue and they're covering up motivation based on something else completely. | Jun 04 23:32 |
yuhong | More similar BS from http://battellemedia.com/archives/004911.php: | Jun 04 23:32 |
yuhong | If any lesson is to be drawn, perhaps prematurely, from all this, it's that no company - or two companies - can lead a culture for longer than half a generation. After that, the culture starts to distrust the companies' motives, regardless of whether they are pure or well intentioned." | Jun 04 23:33 |
yuhong | Yep, that theory is flawed, IMO. | Jun 04 23:33 |
yuhong | First of all, for real distrust to develop, there must be enough evidence, and MS had plenty. | Jun 04 23:36 |
balzac | companies, political parties, institutions - all become corrupt in the end | Jun 04 23:37 |
yuhong | BTW, I generally just call Windows 7 just that or shorten it to 7. | Jun 04 23:38 |
yuhong | I don't use "Vista 7" or any name like that. | Jun 04 23:38 |
yuhong | Similarly, I don't use M$ either. | Jun 04 23:39 |
yuhong | balzac: Why? | Jun 04 23:39 |
balzac | yuhong: it's human nature | Jun 04 23:40 |
ThistleWeb | flexibility in rules hidden in secrecy will let any organisation get more corrupt the longer it exists | Jun 04 23:40 |
balzac | I'd say it's based on a concept of "purity" which is not based in reality | Jun 04 23:40 |
yuhong | What do you mean? | Jun 04 23:41 |
balzac | when people strive to be too virtuous, something bad happens | Jun 04 23:41 |
balzac | because they're not striving for real virtues, just concepts | Jun 04 23:41 |
ThistleWeb | not forgetting the rules are made by those in power, who tend to like to keep it that way | Jun 04 23:41 |
yuhong | BTW, a link from a comment from the same blog entry I just quoted. | Jun 04 23:41 |
yuhong | http://culturalengineer.blogspot.com/ | Jun 04 23:41 |
*jbartosik has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jun 04 23:42 | |
yuhong | "Especially where the hierarchical structure erodes proximity." | Jun 04 23:46 |
yuhong | Another reason why out of touch leaders are a bad idea. | Jun 04 23:46 |
*oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 04 23:48 | |
ThistleWeb | usually by the time you've smarmed enough people to get to the top job you're well into your late working life | Jun 04 23:48 |
oiaohm | http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2009-June/001028.html Multi pointers are on way for next X11 server. | Jun 04 23:51 |
*ThistleWeb has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Jun 04 23:53 | |
yuhong | BTW, compare bureaucracy with security by obscurity. | Jun 04 23:53 |
*neonfloss has quit ("Leaving") | Jun 04 23:53 | |
schestowitz | Haha. They sabotages the interview by editing... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_fRuTlH964&feature=related | Jun 04 23:54 |
schestowitz | balzac: yes, it was daemonfc | Jun 04 23:54 |
yuhong | Good thing Google do not rely on bureaucracy. | Jun 04 23:57 |
yuhong | Because it is like security by obscurity. | Jun 04 23:57 |
oiaohm | schestowitz: someone people over look. Intel is also one of the largest arm chip producers. So intel getting wind river and stopping supporting arm would hit there bottom line. | Jun 04 23:58 |
oiaohm | x86 is very much kept alive because MS needs it. | Jun 04 23:59 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.6 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!