IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 11th, 2009

_Mutex_does not matter if you give out sub-prime home loans and put people on the streets, but if you write proptietary code you are morally corrupt !!Jun 11 00:00
_Mutex_funny old world it is :)Jun 11 00:00
mib_piuqy3So? It's still the people who make the rules for the company. The people are morally responsible. Not the company, the company doesn't decide this by itself.Jun 11 00:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz found it! http://bit.ly/Kgmh4Jun 11 00:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz more specifically: http://bit.ly/3wVGteJun 11 00:00
ThistleWebdamnit, every time I see f11 I keep thinking it's the key, not Fedora 11. I need to train my eyes with the translatorJun 11 00:01
yuhongI have read the "Ten Inherent Rules of Corporate Behavior" and while I don't think the rules are that inherent, it does briefly describe some of the problems that are involved..Jun 11 00:01
splosion_hypothetical situation. You're a manager. You have two choices. Lay-off thirty people, or give yourself a bonus. You could justify that decision easily. By getting the bonus, you are more motivated to do a better job in the future, and maybe you could employ many more people! You could look at it that way, but try explaining that decision to the SOBs you laidJun 11 00:01
splosion_HAHAJun 11 00:01
DaemonFCI've stacked up all the discs I burned under Vista and am shooting them with a C02 pellet gunJun 11 00:01
splosion_laid offJun 11 00:01
DaemonFCat least this way they're good for somethingJun 11 00:02
ThistleWebdunno, being laid may soften the blowJun 11 00:02
splosion_hahaJun 11 00:02
ThistleWebthat could also sound rudeJun 11 00:02
mib_piuqy3That's still a person deciding, what's your point?Jun 11 00:02
mib_piuqy3The decision was made by a personJun 11 00:03
_Mutex_they make good coastersJun 11 00:03
splosion_the point is people will hate him for it.Jun 11 00:03
ThistleWebsplosion_: it'd also depend on who's sent to do the layingJun 11 00:03
splosion_ThistleWeb: Ballmer. In a flying chair.Jun 11 00:03
mib_331k89My only issue is that I believe that BoycottNovell may actually be hurting the Linux advancement. That's just me.Jun 11 00:03
_Mutex_but thats what I said to you hours ago, Windows DVD burner is crap use burn4freeJun 11 00:03
ThistleWebChitty Chitty Bing Bing huh?Jun 11 00:03
splosion_s/Ch/Sh/gJun 11 00:04
_Mutex_you may very well be right mibJun 11 00:04
mib_piuqy3So, you're agreeing that you're previous statement is wrong, and that it's not companies that aren't moral, it's the people behind them.Jun 11 00:04
yuhongCorrect.Jun 11 00:04
yuhonghttp://boycottnovell.com/2007/12/01/antitrust-letters-doj/Jun 11 00:05
splosion_mib_piuqy3: err, noJun 11 00:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mono is causing some people to move to KDE: http://ping.fm/2nrzmJun 11 00:05
mib_piuqy3Well, you're still wrong.Jun 11 00:05
splosion_explainJun 11 00:05
mib_331k89which mib? _Mutex_Jun 11 00:05
_Mutex_my previous statement was to question your definition of "moral", i dont consider writing or selling software immoral, i consider sub-prime loads handed out and Dafour to be immorral, and yes its people not componiesJun 11 00:06
DaemonFCfuck it, it's going to be easier to redo everything than try to salvage this messJun 11 00:06
mib_piuqy3People make the decisions. This isn't hard stuff, a company is as moral as the person who runs it.Jun 11 00:06
yuhongYep.Jun 11 00:06
_Mutex_FC it was hours ago, did you by chance download a 3rd party burner and redo them, or just carry on destroying CD's ?Jun 11 00:07
yuhongWell, actually that is another mess altogether.Jun 11 00:07
yuhonghttp://www.slowleadership.org/blog/2007/11/why-you-should-always-take-business-personally/Jun 11 00:07
splosion_mib_piuqy3: Oh right I see. The point I'm making is that a company's first interest is towards its shareholders. That takes precedence over everything and transcends morals. However the management justify the decisions in their own minds is irrelevant. It's an afterthought.Jun 11 00:08
yuhongI know, it is called "shareholder value".Jun 11 00:08
ThistleWebif you can find some moral excuse for your actions and there's enough reward in it for you, you can convince yourself of anythingJun 11 00:09
yuhongWe need to move Wall Street away from this.Jun 11 00:09
_Mutex_splosion your right up until the part about transcends moralls, what moralls ? who's moralls,Jun 11 00:09
mib_piuqy3Oh forget it, I'm right, you're stupid. Give up.Jun 11 00:10
splosion__Mutex_: anyone's morals. it doesn't matter whose.Jun 11 00:10
_Mutex_we're talking about immoral behaviour wall street should be centre stageJun 11 00:10
*mib_piuqy3 Gets made and gives up.Jun 11 00:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Microsoft discontinues MS Money http://bit.ly/1bxxt8Jun 11 00:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard: Thanks, updated http://bit.ly/58vpOJun 11 00:10
_Mutex_Yes it does, obviously not everyone has the same moralls, its varies very very widely, they why some things (like eating mean) is highly offensive to one person and normal to anotherJun 11 00:11
yuhongYep, Google Books is good to the public but evil to publishers.Jun 11 00:11
DaemonFCSecuROM won't let Wine loas this setupJun 11 00:11
schestowitzHaha. "Though they’re still spending $100 million to advertise the Microsoft Bob Hope search engine." http://notnews.today.com/2009/06/10/microsoft-discontinues-ms-money/Jun 11 00:11
splosion_mib_piuqy3: anyhoo, that's your original query answered. People hate the actions of corporations because they disagree with them. Nobody gives a fuck about how it's great for shareholders if it disadvantages them personally.Jun 11 00:11
yuhongI mean Google Book Search.Jun 11 00:11
_Mutex_not wearing a headscalf if you are female in some countries is considered highly immoral, but its accecpted in teh estJun 11 00:12
_Mutex_westJun 11 00:12
schestowitzyuhong: good for some publishers tooJun 11 00:12
schestowitzTheir books would not be found or read ottherwiseJun 11 00:12
schestowitzEsp. the old or lesser known authorsJun 11 00:12
yuhongBut some of them call it evil, and a case of hypocracy.Jun 11 00:13
schestowitzBut public domain should not belong to a companyJun 11 00:13
mib_piuqy3So, people basically hate a company that'Jun 11 00:13
DaemonFChmmmmmJun 11 00:13
schestowitzGoogle also bought Deja NewsJun 11 00:13
mib_piuqy3s run by peopleJun 11 00:13
_Mutex_and how does a company that you refust to deal with, that you cliam you have better products than them disadvantage you personally ?Jun 11 00:13
yuhongAnd that is the problem.Jun 11 00:13
schestowitzSo to many people, Google IS USENETJun 11 00:13
mib_piuqy3Damn my keyboardJun 11 00:13
DaemonFC"Likewise, Oblivion GOTY Edition uses Securom and won't install with pre 0.9.55 versions of Wine. Use a version of Wine above 0.9.55 or, it can be installed by setting the Windows version to "Windows Vista" in winecfg, and creating the key "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\MountedDevices" in regedit before running OblivionLauncher.exe"Jun 11 00:13
DaemonFChehJun 11 00:13
yuhongYep, I use Google Groups a lot.Jun 11 00:13
splosion__Mutex_: I don't do either of those thingsJun 11 00:13
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yuhongThey were able to get USENET archives dating back to 1981.Jun 11 00:14
_Mutex_so you do use MS and dont think FOSS is better, and you think MS is still disadvantaging you personally okJun 11 00:14
_Mutex_ahh back when all there was  was FTP and telnet :)Jun 11 00:15
_Mutex_no WWWJun 11 00:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Good USB key for Greens or Linux users (or both): http://ping.fm/AYOVOJun 11 00:15
splosion__Mutex_: no. read that sentence again. I said people, not me, just peopleJun 11 00:15
DaemonFCand it still failsJun 11 00:16
_Mutex_fair enough,Jun 11 00:16
yuhongFixing the corpocracy would also be a good idea.Jun 11 00:16
splosion_yeahJun 11 00:16
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yuhongMoving wall street away from maximizing shareholder value is IMO important.Jun 11 00:16
splosion_if Microsoft ever makes a business decision that actually manages to destroy Linux (not that they will), then yeah, I'll hate them with a vengeance for taking away my OS :PJun 11 00:17
yuhongLook up the Chicago School of economics.Jun 11 00:17
_Mutex_I still have a little trouble seeing how,  or why MS is worse than the guys handing out sub-prime loads, or that guy who ripped off all those billions, or enron and so one MS is far far down the listJun 11 00:17
splosion__Mutex_: I don't think they areJun 11 00:17
ThistleWebwe at least have RMS to thank for giving us Microsoft's Kryptonite, AKA the GPLJun 11 00:18
splosion_I don't like the business decions that MS makes, but I think that there are much worse things in the world. So what?Jun 11 00:18
_Mutex_you think they are on par with the ponsie scheme, or enron?Jun 11 00:18
yuhongThe nonsense called "maximizing shareholder value" effectively destoryed the american automakers.Jun 11 00:18
yuhongAnd caused too many very bad things to happen that i won't even mention.Jun 11 00:19
_Mutex_the only group the american automakers can blame for the problems of the american automakers, is,,,,,, the american automakers.Jun 11 00:19
splosion_I don't really compare. It depends how much it makes me swear. Massacres get the strongest swearwords when I hear about them.Jun 11 00:19
yuhongMS was evil not because of shareholder value, however.Jun 11 00:19
splosion_that's rightJun 11 00:20
_Mutex_I mean thousands of people lose their retirement fun, or investors lose their life savings, of families lose their house, and a company that sells software, employes 60,000 US workers is somehow evil is I have to admit beyond my reasoning.Jun 11 00:21
DaemonFChttp://img8.imageshack.us/img8/5688/screenshotxdx.pngJun 11 00:21
splosion_Looking after your shareholders is what being a company is all about. It's the decisions they make to achieve that end that cause people to argue about whether or not its evil.Jun 11 00:21
DaemonFCsplosion_: There you goJun 11 00:21
yuhongsplosion_: Espicially thanks to shareholder value.Jun 11 00:22
splosion_What's that? Oblivion?Jun 11 00:22
DaemonFCheh, it was supposed to beJun 11 00:22
splosion_Never tried Wine-ing it.Jun 11 00:23
splosion_Guess it's probably a bad idea nowJun 11 00:23
yuhongBut even before the shareholder value movement you had to look after your shareholders.Jun 11 00:23
schestowitzDaemonFC: U Studio with Wine?Jun 11 00:23
schestowitzWhy Wine?Jun 11 00:23
yuhongBut you don't have to make every decision favor them.Jun 11 00:23
DaemonFCnow Linux won't give me my disc backJun 11 00:23
DaemonFChold pleaseJun 11 00:23
*DaemonFC grabs a shotgun and tries to reason with LinuxJun 11 00:24
splosion_DaemonFC: did you download Oblivion off thems torrents?Jun 11 00:24
yuhongLooking after your shareholders don't mean that  you don't have to make every decision favor them.Jun 11 00:24
DaemonFCnoJun 11 00:24
splosion_yuhong: no, but you'll kill your business if you make a habit of itJun 11 00:24
DaemonFCI already said I don't stealJun 11 00:24
yuhongWhy?Jun 11 00:25
splosion_DaemonFC: you just blew your chance for me to say "STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM"Jun 11 00:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] KDE 4.3 is out soon. http://ping.fm/BJDM7 Based on my hands-on experience with KDE4, it's great.Jun 11 00:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Linux is released. http://ping.fm/SM74IJun 11 00:25
yuhongAny actual evidence to prove this?Jun 11 00:25
DaemonFCLinux also totally fucks my webcamJun 11 00:25
DaemonFCboth Ubuntu and FedoraJun 11 00:25
DaemonFCa total UVC compliant cameraJun 11 00:25
yuhongI bet it is thanks to the shareholder value movement.Jun 11 00:26
splosion_yuhong: think about it. If you make decions that hurt your stocks, people will sell. And your company will become worthless.Jun 11 00:26
DaemonFChttp://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9956/20090610194123.jpgJun 11 00:26
ThistleWebsplosion_: so you rebrandJun 11 00:26
DaemonFCApparently this is why Russian porn looks like they shot it on 8MM film and left it in a barn for 20 yearsJun 11 00:26
schestowitzLinux treated as a first: http://www.h-online.com/open/First-Linux-USB-3-0-drivers-emerge--/news/113493Jun 11 00:26
DaemonFCthey use CheeseJun 11 00:26
ThistleWebnew site, new imageJun 11 00:26
splosion_ThistleWeb: or collapse completely. That seems to be the most popular way for businesses to go these daysJun 11 00:27
ThistleWebthat tooJun 11 00:27
yuhongAnd unfortunately the shareholder value movement means that CEOs and execs are pressured to maximize stock price regardless of the costs.Jun 11 00:27
yuhongGoogle called it insanity.Jun 11 00:27
*DaemonFC goes to get his Vista discJun 11 00:27
DaemonFCor perhapsJun 11 00:28
_Mutex_does not stop google playing the same gameJun 11 00:28
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DaemonFCsweet jesusJun 11 00:28
splosion_DaemonFC: I bought Oblivion too. protip: I got 35fps on Vista with medium graphics. On XP I got 65+Jun 11 00:28
_Mutex_or red hat, or any FOSS publicly listed companyJun 11 00:28
DaemonFCevery version of Ubuntu breaks something else that used to work fineJun 11 00:29
DaemonFCI wonder what particular brand of crack these people smokeJun 11 00:29
yuhongAnd I agree, we should move away from that nonsense that is "shareholder value".Jun 11 00:29
DaemonFCanyhow, bbiabJun 11 00:29
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yuhongWall Street desperately needs to be changed.Jun 11 00:29
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_Mutex_shareholder value, is "company value" divided by the number of sharholders.Jun 11 00:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another Site Shuns GNU/Linux Users < http://ping.fm/9vYBB > MapsOnUs = #FAILJun 11 00:30
yuhongWe should move away from the "shareholder value" way of thinking.Jun 11 00:30
yuhongIncluding the quarterly earning predictions.Jun 11 00:30
_Mutex_to what ?Jun 11 00:30
splosion_Real-time updates?Jun 11 00:31
yuhongGoogle don't provide any.Jun 11 00:31
yuhongWell, I don't know.Jun 11 00:31
splosion_Or as real-time as possible actual updates, maybe.Jun 11 00:31
_Mutex_every listed company does that allready, its called the stock marketJun 11 00:31
yuhongYep.Jun 11 00:31
yuhongBut what is important is to move away from the "shareholder value" way of thinking.Jun 11 00:32
_Mutex_is easy to say more away from something, but towards what ?Jun 11 00:32
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yuhonghttp://www.slowleadership.org/blog/2007/11/why-you-should-always-take-business-personally/Jun 11 00:33
yuhonghttp://www.slowleadership.org/blog/2008/06/guanteddymo-bay-where-efficiency-meets-insanity/Jun 11 00:33
yuhongSome states has already passed laws designed to move away from this thinking.Jun 11 00:34
_Mutex_they are not talking about moving away from sharholder value, if anything it was talking about increasing sharehold value by outsourcing.Jun 11 00:35
_Mutex_away from it TO WHAT ??Jun 11 00:36
_Mutex_outsourcing the work to 3rd world countries ?  great planJun 11 00:36
yuhongNo, certainly not, that is why we should not move away from shareholder value.Jun 11 00:37
yuhongBut to what? I don't know yet, but I am thinking of doing more research on this.Jun 11 00:37
yuhongBut anyways, bye for now.Jun 11 00:37
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_Mutex_sounds like execspeak to me, again, its easy to say to move away, but what is the viable alternative  you propose ?Jun 11 00:38
_Mutex_ok bye :)Jun 11 00:38
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DaemonXPso it seems that Fedora, Mandriva, and Ubuntu no longer comply with the UVC standard, because they all mess up the video feedJun 11 00:43
splosion_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard#hAl_Microsoft_Topic_Ban spin spin spin. This debate is heating up.Jun 11 00:44
DaemonXPwhy is it that every revision of every Linux system seems to break something I own that the last one worked fine with?Jun 11 00:44
DaemonXPassuming it actually ever workedJun 11 00:45
splosion_Sod's Law?Jun 11 00:45
DaemonXPI'm going to call it "Ryan's Law", the draft version is "The more hardware you buy for Linux the less it useful it becomes" and part two of the law "Part 1 goes double if it was expensive"Jun 11 00:46
DaemonXP*less usefulJun 11 00:46
splosion_You need a constant for luck.Jun 11 00:46
DaemonXPahem part three could be "Looking through a publically maintained database of supported hardware is a less productive use of time than masturbating"Jun 11 00:48
splosion_And pi. Because the ratio of a circle's curvature to its diameter appaears in every fucking equation I have to use even when it has NOTHING AT ALL to do with circles. RARRRGHJun 11 00:48
splosion_*circumferenceJun 11 00:48
schestowitzI'll post links in the morning. Too tired. gn.Jun 11 00:49
splosion_tahJun 11 00:49
DaemonXPUbuntu is an alternative to Windows that will run about half your software (through Wine) and *some* of your hardwareJun 11 00:49
DaemonXPand saves you $50Jun 11 00:50
DaemonXP"But that hardware cost me at least $300"Jun 11 00:51
DaemonXPNYET!!!!! You can't say that, it's not allowed on Ubuntu Forums!!! graw!!!!!!Jun 11 00:51
splosion_DaemonXP: it's not really a Law, though. I lucked out totally on my desktop. My laptop has been a pain, thoughJun 11 00:51
DaemonXPI don't know, the choice between Windows and Linux kind of makes throwing my computer away look better and better all the timeJun 11 00:52
DaemonXPlmaoJun 11 00:52
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DaemonXPI'm not exactly wild about either and each for different reasonsJun 11 00:54
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splosion_I can see whyJun 11 00:55
splosion_I lucked out when I switched. Really lucked out. In fact, it was pretty damned awesomeJun 11 00:56
splosion_still isJun 11 00:56
splosion_it's like a never-ending orgasmJun 11 00:56
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DaemonXPhmmmmJun 11 00:56
DaemonXPwell, if I don't mind haing my video camera feed making me look like a jaundiced 70s porn star and not being able to send the feed out to UstreamJun 11 00:57
DaemonXPLinux is an optionJun 11 00:57
DaemonXP*havingJun 11 00:57
DaemonXPmaybe it does that so you don't *want* anyone to see the streamJun 11 00:58
DaemonXP:PJun 11 00:58
splosion_it's a lookJun 11 00:58
DaemonXPit's not hard to see why everyone wants to downgrade back to XPJun 11 01:00
DaemonXPMicrosoft topic ban?Jun 11 01:01
DaemonXPwtf is that?Jun 11 01:01
splosion_hrmm?Jun 11 01:01
DaemonXPhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard#hAl_Microsoft_Topic_BanJun 11 01:02
splosion_he's the guy trolling wikipedia to edit the articles to make MS appear in a batter light. And now he's being accused of a conflict of interest by someone involved with ODF. The result, a dramamineJun 11 01:03
splosion_sbatter/betterJun 11 01:03
DaemonXPI use Windows, but I try not to get entangled in Microsoft document, media, etc. formatsJun 11 01:04
splosion_Good idea. Support for them is always eventually droppedJun 11 01:04
DaemonXPit's just not good practices to save anything you want to hold onto in a format that's patent encumberedJun 11 01:04
DaemonXPand in WMA's case anyway, inferior to all its competitionJun 11 01:05
splosion_yeahJun 11 01:05
DaemonXPwell, like, my webcam for instance, Logitech tries to make you use WMA/WMV, so I just install the driver, and use VLC to captureJun 11 01:05
DaemonXPI really do't like being railroaded into using proprietary formats like thatJun 11 01:06
DaemonXPyou know MP3 will be around another 20 yearsJun 11 01:06
splosion_seriously, you need to check out winff for your encoding needs, by the way. Converts anything to anything. A bit like Super! for Windows, expect it doesn't look like vomit nor is it hard to use.Jun 11 01:06
splosion_except*Jun 11 01:07
DaemonXPI've been using Foobar 2000 as a frontend to Lame.exeJun 11 01:07
DaemonXPworks well enoughJun 11 01:07
splosion_Can it convert flvs to h.264 and copy the audio stream into a separate mp3 at the same and use all your processor cores to do it? HUH?Jun 11 01:08
DaemonXPit can't play videoJun 11 01:08
DaemonXPbut since all the converter does is pass command line switchesJun 11 01:09
DaemonXPI suppose you could make it convert videosJun 11 01:09
splosion_AyeJun 11 01:11
DaemonXPhmmmJun 11 01:11
splosion_Here's the command winff passes to the commandline to convert flvs:Jun 11 01:11
DaemonXPand of course Vista can read this discJun 11 01:11
splosion_ffmpeg -i "S01E02.flv" -r 29.97 -vcodec libx264 -s 640x480 -aspect 4:3 -flags +loop -cmp +chroma -deblockalpha 0 -deblockbeta 0  -b 256kb -maxrate 1500k -bufsize 4M -bt 256k -refs 1 -bf 3 -coder 1 -me_method umh -me_range 16 -subq 7 -partitions +parti4x4+parti8x8+partp8x8+partb8x8 -g 250 -keyint_min 25 -level 30 -qmJun 11 01:11
*DaemonXP is going to try to dump everything and make a new disc with Img BurnJun 11 01:11
splosion_...-qmin 10 -qmax 51 -qcomp 0.6 -trellis 2 -sc_threshold 40 -i_qfactor 0.71 -acodec libfaac  -ab 192kb -ar 48000 -ac 2 "S01E02.mp4"Jun 11 01:12
splosion_You could type that all in, I supposeJun 11 01:12
DaemonXPWinamp also makes a good MP3 encoderJun 11 01:12
DaemonXPyou need Nero to get good results with variable bitrate MP4 thoughJun 11 01:13
splosion_Yeah that's what I used to useJun 11 01:13
DaemonXPWinamp only does constant on thoseJun 11 01:13
DaemonXPit's pretty funny to meJun 11 01:13
DaemonXPcause everything else Nero makes is expensive, bloated, and shittyJun 11 01:13
DaemonXPbut their MP4 encoder is awesome and they give it awayJun 11 01:14
DaemonXPahhh, "Ryan's Law of big bloated software companies"....."They always seem to make hundreds of really awful products, and one really great one that everyone manages to wonder how the hell it happened"Jun 11 01:15
splosion_They know people are stupid, thoughJun 11 01:15
DaemonXPso what's Nero's advantage in giving away the MP4 encoder?Jun 11 01:16
splosion_Swiftfox at 307.203mb. grahJun 11 01:16
splosion_DaemonXP: how many people are going to really use that feature? Most people I would imagine only care about ripping dem choons to their PC or whateverJun 11 01:16
DaemonXPfair enoughJun 11 01:17
DaemonXPyeah, Windows Media Player pops up and encodes it to WMAJun 11 01:17
DaemonXPthat's so convenientJun 11 01:17
DaemonXP;)Jun 11 01:17
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splosion_y'know PowerISO? They give away their Linux version for free!Jun 11 01:18
splosion_It has been a useful tool for when I mistakenly forget to check that a torrent is in their shitty image formatJun 11 01:18
DaemonXPthe official XChat for Windows is $20Jun 11 01:18
splosion_hahJun 11 01:19
DaemonXPbut since it's open source, there's a number of unofficial buildsJun 11 01:19
DaemonXPso it really doesn't matterJun 11 01:19
splosion_what's the licence?Jun 11 01:19
DaemonXPthe unofficial builds can even use the same themesJun 11 01:19
DaemonXPfor the source code, it's GPL 2Jun 11 01:19
DaemonXPbut he violates the licenseJun 11 01:19
DaemonXPcause he links his shareware enforcement code to itJun 11 01:20
DaemonXPwithout providing source code for that ;)Jun 11 01:20
splosion_tskJun 11 01:21
DaemonXPin fact, he didn't even write a lot of XChat, he kept it free even on WindowsJun 11 01:21
DaemonXPuntil everyone else wrote a lot of it for himJun 11 01:21
DaemonXPthen made the Windows version sharewareJun 11 01:21
splosion_reminds me of some guy I saw on Ebay recently. He was selling boxed sets of Gimp and OpenOffice and other stuff, but packages to look anything but. He made them look like proprietary contenders to Adobe and Microsoft's offerings. Professional tools. I wonder how much money he was makingJun 11 01:22
splosion_packaged*Jun 11 01:23
DaemonXPthat is legalJun 11 01:23
DaemonXPthe license allows itJun 11 01:23
DaemonXPdistateful, deceitful, wrong, and dishonestJun 11 01:24
DaemonXPbut totally, 100% legalJun 11 01:24
DaemonXP:)Jun 11 01:24
splosion_http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/IMAGE-PHOTO-EDITOR-SOFTWARE-fits-PHOTOSHOP-CS-on-CD_W0QQitemZ180366736701QQihZ008QQcategoryZ51344QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262Jun 11 01:24
splosion_IThis is a professional photo editor that has all the same features and strengths of photoshop .  This is  FULLY LICENSED and is  a truly stunning piece of image editing software.Jun 11 01:24
splosion_AwesomeJun 11 01:24
splosion_It's called "Pro Image Editor". hahahaJun 11 01:25
DaemonXPand he doesn't refer to GIMP anywhere on the pageJun 11 01:25
DaemonXPthat's funnyJun 11 01:25
splosion_I should leave some feedback along the lines of, "Also available online for free!" But I guess you can say that lots of stuff.Jun 11 01:26
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splosion_about+Jun 11 01:27
ThistleWeball Windows software is "available free on the internet" albeit not legallyJun 11 01:27
DaemonXPwhich is why free software isn't taking offJun 11 01:28
DaemonXPWindows is free tooJun 11 01:28
DaemonXP:PJun 11 01:28
ThistleWebone-virus-per-childJun 11 01:28
DaemonXPI call it One License Per ChildJun 11 01:28
DaemonXP;)Jun 11 01:28
DaemonXPthe XP XOsJun 11 01:29
splosion_The Licence agreement says, "If you plan on having another child, please contact our customer hotline to confirm a new Licence for your offspring to ensure that he or she gets the very best Windows Genuine Advantage has to offer."Jun 11 01:30
ThistleWeblolJun 11 01:30
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DaemonXPI figured out that my cable internet alone would be $60 a month, but they drop it down to $29.99 if you subscribe to cable TV at all, so I was going to drop the cable TV but happened to sak if they had just a basic channel package, turns out they did for $10 a monthJun 11 01:40
DaemonXPso the $10 a month plan they don't advertise still drops your internet bill by $30Jun 11 01:41
InTheLoodo you guys know this dude called twitterJun 11 01:41
InTheLoouser on slashdotJun 11 01:41
DaemonXPyesJun 11 01:41
DaemonXPhe's a combative assholeJun 11 01:41
DaemonXPwhat about him?Jun 11 01:41
InTheLoo:)Jun 11 01:41
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InTheLooi was wondering if that page on slashdot that i followed here is trueJun 11 01:42
InTheLooso many accounts?Jun 11 01:42
DaemonXPapparentlyJun 11 01:42
splosion_he'll be around here eventually. go ahead and ask himJun 11 01:42
InTheLoothey all seem to be the same personJun 11 01:42
InTheLoofrom the styleJun 11 01:42
InTheLooa lot of "M$" this and thatJun 11 01:42
DaemonXPhe bounces off a Russian proxy server and a Chinese satellite cause otherwise Microsoft would send black heicopters after himJun 11 01:43
DaemonXP:)Jun 11 01:43
splosion_InTheLoo: can you give us a link?Jun 11 01:43
InTheLoowait, i closed the tabJun 11 01:43
DaemonXP*helicoptersJun 11 01:43
InTheLoohttp://slashdot.org/~SockDisclosure/journal/214377Jun 11 01:43
*InTheLoo is now known as TLintonJun 11 01:44
TLintonchanged my nick, sorryJun 11 01:44
TLintoni picked one of those accounts because i couldn't think of anything :)Jun 11 01:44
TLintoni was here yesterday but it was quietJun 11 01:44
TLintoni thought it was something about SUSEJun 11 01:45
TLintoni guess notJun 11 01:45
TLintonhahaJun 11 01:45
TLintoni followed this link to the website: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/09/irc-log-08102008/#tOct%2008%2013:48:44Jun 11 01:46
TLintondidn't even know it existedJun 11 01:46
TLintonsomeone on a mailing list mentioned the twitter guyJun 11 01:46
TLintoni read that thing for about an hourJun 11 01:47
TLintonamazingJun 11 01:47
TLintonanyhooJun 11 01:47
TLintonanyone using slackware or slax?Jun 11 01:47
TLintonslax is coolJun 11 01:47
TLintoni'm just trying to figure out a way to save downloaded packagesJun 11 01:47
splosion_people say tonnes of shit about Roy, but in my limited experience he gets just as annoyed at the tin-foil hat brigade as the rest of us doJun 11 01:48
ThistleWebI've never managed to get Slackware installed rightJun 11 01:48
ThistleWebslax seemed to work fine in USB but had little in the way of modules etc installedJun 11 01:48
ThistleWebbut then, I'm no Slackware person, so I guess with some time I could have fixed themJun 11 01:49
TLintonit's amazing, it worked right off boot with my laptopJun 11 01:52
ThistleWebI can't get my head round the choice of KDE for a "lightweight" USB distroJun 11 01:52
TLintonvideo, audio, wireless, everythingJun 11 01:52
ThistleWebit's probs highly dependant on the hardwareJun 11 01:52
TLintonyeah wellJun 11 01:52
TLintoni'm happyJun 11 01:52
TLintoni guess it was luckJun 11 01:52
ThistleWebthat can happen with any distro thoughJun 11 01:53
TLintonit's an older thinkpadJun 11 01:55
TLintont43Jun 11 01:55
ThistleWebto me, the whole point of a portable USB distro is that it's to be used on whatever PC you're at, which means it needs to be light and versatile with hardwareJun 11 01:55
ThistleWebslax failed for me on the first PC I triedJun 11 01:55
ThistleWebwith wirelessJun 11 01:55
ThistleWebwithout the internet, finding a fix / driver is difficultJun 11 01:56
TLintonagreedJun 11 01:57
TLintonre:kde, also agreedJun 11 01:57
TLintonbut slax has a thing where you can put together the modules you wantJun 11 01:57
TLintoni'm not sure if their 'core' includes kdeJun 11 01:58
splosion_http://www.examiner.com/x-12218-Providence-Video-Game-Examiner~y2009m6d9-Project-Natal-RacistJun 11 01:58
TLintoni haven't lookedJun 11 01:58
ThistleWebthe one I tried was kdeJun 11 01:58
ThistleWebdidn't give me any choiceJun 11 01:58
TLintonif it doesn't, i might put together something with fluxboxJun 11 01:58
TLintonnot if you download the default, noJun 11 01:58
ThistleWebI could do XFCE , openbox, flux etc but it was kdeJun 11 01:58
TLintonthere's no login screen with choices like gdm or anything like thtJun 11 01:58
ThistleWebmaybe I got the wrong image thenJun 11 01:58
TLinton*thatJun 11 01:59
TLintonit must be the defaultJun 11 01:59
TLintonit's what i'm running nowJun 11 01:59
TLintonnot that bad, reallyJun 11 01:59
TLintonit's not the FULL kde install anywayJun 11 01:59
TLintonand it's usable enoughJun 11 01:59
ThistleWebit's still surprisingly snappy on USB for kdeJun 11 01:59
TLintonyeah, very much soJun 11 02:00
ThistleWebthe closest I've come to slackware is wolvixJun 11 02:00
*ThistleWeb loves XFCEJun 11 02:00
TLintoni used dsl onceJun 11 02:00
TLintonit wasn't nearly as fastJun 11 02:00
splosion_openbox ftwJun 11 02:01
ThistleWebI'm really tempted to try slitax on the usbJun 11 02:01
ThistleWebwhich is openbox I thinkJun 11 02:01
TLintonthe thing about small distrosJun 11 02:01
splosion_Slitaz is the fastest of the lightweight distros I've tried. And much nicer to look at than DSL and Puppy, tooJun 11 02:01
TLintonis that i'm not exactly the expertJun 11 02:01
TLintonso having some of the kde or gnome tools is niceJun 11 02:02
ThistleWebslitaz impressed me on speed tooJun 11 02:02
ThistleWebPuppy is nice but a few things annoy me with itJun 11 02:02
ThistleWebthe package manager having to install one app at a timeJun 11 02:02
splosion_if you have 128mb of RAM, the whole desktop environment loads itself into the RAM.Jun 11 02:03
splosion_or arther the entire root filesystemJun 11 02:03
splosion_ratherJun 11 02:03
ThistleWebDSL is strange, it's like they went too light for me, made too many compromisesJun 11 02:03
splosion_TLinton: this distro is only 30mb big btw http://www.slitaz.org/en/artwork/screenshots.htmlJun 11 02:04
TLintondoesn't DSL use some older window manager?Jun 11 02:04
TLintonlike openstep or something?Jun 11 02:04
TLintonmaybe i'm confusing it with something elseJun 11 02:04
ThistleWebDSL is now JWM I htinkJun 11 02:04
ThistleWebor IceWMJun 11 02:04
ThistleWebits not an older WM it's just a very light oneJun 11 02:05
ThistleWebyep Slitaz does seem to work mirciles on what they get out of such a small packageJun 11 02:05
ThistleWeband it looks great tooJun 11 02:05
splosion_http://www.google.com/interstitial?url=http://tv-links.cc/ hrmm. I wonder who asked for google to make tv-links show up as malwareJun 11 02:07
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ThistleWebI used NOP Puppy on a USB for a whileJun 11 02:10
ThistleWebthat was quite decentJun 11 02:10
ThistleWebI prefer an XFCE environment when possible, even if it's a different distro from my home PCJun 11 02:11
ThistleWebI can use others, where resources on the host are tightJun 11 02:11
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TLintonsplosion: thanksJun 11 02:12
ThistleWebbut like anything else, each distros version of a WM or DE is different, they are not all equalJun 11 02:12
TLintoni'm not really worried about space thoughJun 11 02:12
TLintonor memoryJun 11 02:12
TLintonit's an 8GB usb driveJun 11 02:12
TLintonand 2GB of ramJun 11 02:12
TLintonwhat i want is for packages to stay put :)Jun 11 02:12
ThistleWeblolJun 11 02:12
TLintonplenty of horsepower for any linuxJun 11 02:13
splosion_ah okayJun 11 02:13
yuhongEven Daniel Eran Dilger, which is pro-Apple, was frustrated at IDG.Jun 11 02:13
yuhonghttp://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=233341&cid=18978623Jun 11 02:13
ThistleWebmy thinking is that a USB drive should be able to plug into whatever PC you're sitting at, which may be old, maybe be like 96mb ram or a P2Jun 11 02:13
ThistleWebso the lighter the betterJun 11 02:13
TLintonslax has a channel on freenode but there's no one there atmJun 11 02:13
splosion_perhaps go for one of the lightweight ubuntu-builds? Fluxbuntu or Crunchbang are said to be rather lightweightJun 11 02:14
yuhongHe should know that IDC is paid by MS to spread FUD.Jun 11 02:14
TLinton<ThistleWeb>: agreed, but there's usb 1.1 and then 2.0 BIG differenceJun 11 02:14
ThistleWebyeahJun 11 02:14
ThistleWebfor HD installed distros, one day I will get Slackware installedJun 11 02:14
TLintoni used slack a long time agoJun 11 02:15
TLintonearly 00s or soJun 11 02:15
ThistleWebI dont have a second PC to have open at help pages, which left me guessing at a very complicated (by Mint standards) installerJun 11 02:15
TLintonor earlier, i thinkJun 11 02:15
TLintonit has changed a lotJun 11 02:15
ThistleWebhence the dodgy installJun 11 02:15
yuhongAnyone listening to me?Jun 11 02:16
TLintonespecially on how to install stuffJun 11 02:16
TLintonyuhong: don't listen to roughlydraftedJun 11 02:16
TLintonit's a mac fanboy with a fetish that pretends to like linuxJun 11 02:16
splosion_yuhong: yes. thanks for the linkJun 11 02:16
ThistleWebArch is another interesting one I'll get round to when I have a second PC to have open at instructions pagesJun 11 02:17
TLintonthat's what that blog has always looked like to meJun 11 02:17
yuhongYes, he is pro-Apple.Jun 11 02:17
yuhongI noticed that.Jun 11 02:17
TLinton"pro" might be a slight understatementJun 11 02:17
TLintoni read an article there a few years agoJun 11 02:17
TLintonabout how microsoft had pooched the vista dev processJun 11 02:17
TLintonfair enoughJun 11 02:18
TLintontrouble is, he never did mention all the screw ups apple had before OS XJun 11 02:18
TLintonit was a looong roadJun 11 02:18
splosion_swiftfox. 436.969 mb. WWWWRRRRRY!?Jun 11 02:18
TLintonso it's like the serial killer smeared in blood, berating me for throwing trash in the streetJun 11 02:18
TLintonThistle: what is Arch based off of?Jun 11 02:19
ThistleWebI ain't noticed the difference between swiftfox and firefox but that could be "mileage varies according to processor"Jun 11 02:19
ThistleWebTLinton: I dont think its based on anythingJun 11 02:20
ThistleWebits a rolling distroJun 11 02:20
ThistleWebthere's no 6mth new releaseJun 11 02:20
TLintonohJun 11 02:20
ThistleWebyou build it to exactly what you want, leaving out all the bloat you dont needJun 11 02:20
ThistleWebhence it's very fastJun 11 02:20
TLintonnot many 'from slate' distros showing up latelyJun 11 02:20
TLintonugh, i meant "starting from scratch"Jun 11 02:20
TLintonhard to put togetherJun 11 02:20
ThistleWebapparently the Arch community are great at explaining things to get you goingJun 11 02:21
TLintonthat's why everyone loves debian so muchJun 11 02:21
ThistleWebtheres supposedly a great installation guide tooJun 11 02:21
splosion_Firefox performs just as poorly. Swiftfox is faster when you first run it but both start leaking memory after a few hoursJun 11 02:21
ThistleWebbut it's one of these things where you need patineceJun 11 02:21
yuhongBut I just want to show that BN is not the only one that is frustrated with IDG/IDC.Jun 11 02:21
TLintonthere was a great install guide for slack back in the day tooJun 11 02:21
TLintonyou might want to schedule a day of work anyway :)Jun 11 02:22
ThistleWebyeah, lolJun 11 02:22
TLintonespecially of you have non-standard newer hardwareJun 11 02:22
ThistleWebArch ain't a quickie install like many mainstream distrosJun 11 02:22
ThistleWebone day I'll try itJun 11 02:22
ThistleWebwhen I have 2 PCsJun 11 02:22
TLintonolder (> 1y) hardware works great with most distrosJun 11 02:22
TLintonbleeding edge not so goodJun 11 02:22
ThistleWebone open at the Arch wiki while I install on the otherJun 11 02:23
DaemonXPyes, you can't go wrong with more incompatible package managers, more incompatible forks, more distros with more versions of things that have managed to be loosely standardized....Jun 11 02:23
DaemonXP:PJun 11 02:23
TLintoni remember doing battle with an ultra ata card under redhat 6.xJun 11 02:23
TLintonwasn't supported at allJun 11 02:23
TLintonhad to open the case and connect the drives directly to the on-board IDEJun 11 02:23
TLintonwindows didn't support it eitherJun 11 02:24
TLintonout of the box that isJun 11 02:24
TLintonbut at least there were drivers for itJun 11 02:24
DaemonXPthat's gause you had the Foobar q37r399p and Linux only supported every model Foobar BUT the q37r399pJun 11 02:24
DaemonXP:)Jun 11 02:24
ThistleWebArch strikes me as a Linux purists distro, along with SlackwareJun 11 02:24
DaemonXPyou complained loudly about the lack of Foobar q37r399p support in LinuxJun 11 02:25
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DaemonXPbut all the other Foobar users just laughed at you and told you to put your PC together from scratch and quit bitchingJun 11 02:25
DaemonXP;)Jun 11 02:25
DaemonXPso you went out and bought a new Foobar device which was fully compliant ISO Foobar certifiedJun 11 02:26
DaemonXPand the next version of Linux broke itJun 11 02:26
DaemonXPyou filed a bug report in the Bugzilla you see, but nobody cared because none of the developers have that model of FoobarJun 11 02:27
DaemonXPYou have now spent $500 to get away from Windows, when a copy of Windows is about $90Jun 11 02:27
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DaemonXPinfuriated and disgusted, you pull out your Vista DVD and go back in defeatJun 11 02:28
TLintonactually i found a page with informationJun 11 02:28
TLintonabout the ata cardJun 11 02:29
TLintonit started with "if you were stupid enough to connect the hdd to the card..."Jun 11 02:29
TLintoni stopped reading and just used the onboard ide :)Jun 11 02:29
TLintonit was abit, i thinkJun 11 02:29
TLintonor at least it came with an abit moboooooooJun 11 02:29
TLintonoops, sorryJun 11 02:29
TLintonthis keyboard gets stuck sometimesJun 11 02:30
TLintonespecially the arrow keysJun 11 02:30
TLintoni have high praise for ibm hardwareJun 11 02:31
DaemonXPit seems like that's usually how it goes, I plug it into Vista "Windows is installing drivers", I plug it into Linux, it has no idea what the device is and out of tree drivers either don't exist or are reverse engineered source tarballs with no installation helpJun 11 02:31
TLintoni'm willing to do the work sometimesJun 11 02:31
TLintonbut not alwaysJun 11 02:31
TLintonsometimes my time is more valuable that whatever i'm trying to do with the pcJun 11 02:32
TLintonotoh that seems to be a thing of the past more and moreJun 11 02:32
DaemonXPLinux is OK for some of the simple devices with no demand on them but to read email, browse the web and sync an mp3 playerJun 11 02:32
DaemonXPand that's why it has a niche on netbooksJun 11 02:32
TLintonstill, it's amazing what they do with it nowadaysJun 11 02:33
DaemonXPand no device maker that I've seen using Ubuntu Netbook Remix ships it out telling anyone to use Ogg Vorbis eitherJun 11 02:33
TLintonit runs off usb drives on crappy hardwareJun 11 02:33
TLintonand supercomputersJun 11 02:33
TLintonbut sometimes....Jun 11 02:33
TLintoni get tempted to use os x and the hell with itJun 11 02:34
DaemonXPyeah, I think the reason I used it and liked it for several years was because my last PC was pretty basicJun 11 02:34
TLintontoo much money for the hardware thoughJun 11 02:34
DaemonXPand didn't have any hardware that really pushed itJun 11 02:34
yuhongUnfortunately, Linux does not have automatic driver installation support the way Windows does.Jun 11 02:34
TLintonwell back in 97 EVERYTHING pushed itJun 11 02:34
TLintonit was hard to get it running on anythingJun 11 02:34
DaemonXPUbuntu is probably the best about automatic driversJun 11 02:35
TLintonslack had a page back thenJun 11 02:35
DaemonXPbut even they are spotty because Linux drivers just don't exist for everythingJun 11 02:35
TLintonwith specific machines you were advised to tryJun 11 02:35
TLintoni remember the zeos panthera 486 towersJun 11 02:35
TLintonhahaJun 11 02:35
TLintonnot many of you remember zeos, right?Jun 11 02:36
DaemonXPIf there's a device, it will have a Windows driverJun 11 02:36
DaemonXPit may have a Mac driverJun 11 02:36
TLintonthey made cool boxes back in the dayJun 11 02:36
DaemonXPand you might get it to work on Linux if it follows some generic protocol or somethingJun 11 02:36
DaemonXPand that's unofficialJun 11 02:36
DaemonXPvery few device makers tell you their device works on LinuxJun 11 02:36
DaemonXPbecause it might now, and it might not tomorrowJun 11 02:36
DaemonXPor it may depend on whatever your distribution has doneJun 11 02:37
TLintoni have a samsung printer i bought a few years agoJun 11 02:37
TLintoni was surprised it came with linux drivers and instructionsJun 11 02:38
DaemonXPprinters are the devilJun 11 02:38
TLintonprinters work fine under windows, especially networked onesJun 11 02:38
TLintonand usbJun 11 02:38
TLintonbut i still remember trying to fiddle with irqs and whatnot on windows to get lpt1 to workJun 11 02:38
TLintonon some machinesJun 11 02:39
yuhongOn O'Reilly, I know how it couldn't criticise Microsoft due to it's, but it doesn't criticise Linux either.Jun 11 02:39
DaemonXPwell, people like to say Vista broke their printer, then you ask them what kind of printer, and it turns out it came with their Windows 98 system or somethingJun 11 02:39
yuhongSo you can say that it is neutral.Jun 11 02:39
TLintonbut don't printers talk to the OS via PostScript or something?Jun 11 02:39
yuhongOn O'Reilly, I know how it couldn't criticise Microsoft due to it's sponsorship, but it doesn't criticise Linux either.Jun 11 02:39
yuhongSo you can say that it is neutral.Jun 11 02:39
DaemonXPsome doJun 11 02:40
TLintonor that HP language everyone supports?Jun 11 02:40
DaemonXPbut not all printers are printersJun 11 02:40
TLintonhaha, rightJun 11 02:40
DaemonXPsome of them, scan, fax, and copy tooJun 11 02:40
TLintonmulti dealsJun 11 02:40
DaemonXPso a lot of those actually do work partially on LinuxJun 11 02:40
TLintoni've seen them at costcoJun 11 02:40
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DaemonXPeven if the whole thing doesn'tJun 11 02:40
TLintoni can see how they would require special driversJun 11 02:40
DaemonXPso you can print in Linux, but you have to boot to Windows to scanJun 11 02:40
DaemonXP:)Jun 11 02:40
TLintonlolJun 11 02:40
TLintonwhat about wine?Jun 11 02:41
DaemonXPopeJun 11 02:41
DaemonXP*nopeJun 11 02:41
TLintoni've never used wine, so i don't knowJun 11 02:41
DaemonXPthe scanner drivers are Windows-onlyJun 11 02:41
DaemonXPHP does this on some modelsJun 11 02:41
DaemonXPyou need to look at their HPLIP siteJun 11 02:41
DaemonXPif it says "partial Linux support" don't buy the thingJun 11 02:41
DaemonXPyou will regret itJun 11 02:41
DaemonXPpartial could also mean that the printer won't work in LinuxJun 11 02:42
DaemonXPbut the scanner willJun 11 02:42
TLintonbut is it something that's very windows-specific or something that wine just doesn't support?Jun 11 02:42
DaemonXPWine can't do Windows driversJun 11 02:42
DaemonXPonly programsJun 11 02:42
TLintonohJun 11 02:42
TLintondidn't know thatJun 11 02:42
DaemonXPReactOS will be compatible with Windows driversJun 11 02:42
TLintoni just assumed everything workedJun 11 02:43
DaemonXPif it is ever developed that farJun 11 02:43
DaemonXPnoJun 11 02:43
DaemonXPlots of Windows software works in Wine, to varying degrees of successJun 11 02:43
DaemonXPsome won't at allJun 11 02:43
TLintoninterestingJun 11 02:43
DaemonXPsome works flawlesslyJun 11 02:43
TLintonfrom what i've heard about it i just assumed it was a full replacement for windowsJun 11 02:44
DaemonXPa cono, it isn'tJun 11 02:44
TLintonnever had a need for it, so i never really tried itJun 11 02:44
DaemonXP*noJun 11 02:44
DaemonXPWine is far from totally compatible with WindowsJun 11 02:44
TLintoni mean if i need windows i'll just use windows :)Jun 11 02:44
DaemonXPand some things can't ever be compatible with WineJun 11 02:45
DaemonXPfor example, if they reverse engineer Windows libraries that let SecuROM run, that is illegalJun 11 02:45
DaemonXPso no games that use SecuROM will work in WineJun 11 02:45
TLintoni thought reverse engineering was legalJun 11 02:45
DaemonXPunless you can find a crack or install them in Windows and copy them overJun 11 02:45
TLintonisnt' that the whole premise of wine?Jun 11 02:45
DaemonXPWine is a reverse engineering job, but they do it without any access to Windows sourceJun 11 02:46
DaemonXPand without decompiling anythingJun 11 02:46
DaemonXPso basically they have to sit back and watch how a program interacts with real WindowsJun 11 02:46
DaemonXPthen try to come up with a library that does the same thingJun 11 02:46
TLintonso that's reverse engineeringJun 11 02:46
TLintonunder law, that's perfectly legalJun 11 02:46
DaemonXPyes, but not illegallyJun 11 02:46
TLintonis it not?Jun 11 02:46
TLintonok... :)Jun 11 02:47
DaemonXPit would be illegal if any of them had seen Windows source codeJun 11 02:47
DaemonXPor used a disassembler on Windows componentsJun 11 02:47
TLintoni mean they might sue you, but it wouldn't holdJun 11 02:47
TLintonoh, and the widows source was leaked a few years backJun 11 02:47
DaemonXPMicrosoft would have to prove they disassembled somethingJun 11 02:47
DaemonXPor stole Windows source codeJun 11 02:47
TLintoni hope they didn't look at it :)Jun 11 02:47
DaemonXPI doubt they hveJun 11 02:48
DaemonXPthat would be stupid and obviousJun 11 02:48
DaemonXPand they'd open themselves up to all kinds of problemsJun 11 02:48
TLintoni guessJun 11 02:49
DaemonXPCedega uses Wine code, but they also license copy protection compatibility modulesJun 11 02:49
DaemonXPso they can run games that Wine cantJun 11 02:49
TLintonah, that's the game thing right?Jun 11 02:49
TLinton*gamesJun 11 02:49
DaemonXPyesJun 11 02:49
TLintonand there's another one, for photoshop?Jun 11 02:49
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DaemonXPfairly expensive, but usually works better than Wine, for gaming anywayJun 11 02:49
TLintonor office?Jun 11 02:49
DaemonXPyeahJun 11 02:49
DaemonXPthat's CrossoverJun 11 02:49
TLintonyes, crossover officeJun 11 02:50
DaemonXPthey actually contribute o and sponsor WineJun 11 02:50
TLintoni've heard about itJun 11 02:50
DaemonXPso if you have to buy something, try to use Crossover if you canJun 11 02:50
TLintonso it's based on Wine then?Jun 11 02:50
TLintonboth of them?Jun 11 02:50
DaemonXPno, Cedega only gives source code back where the license says they have toJun 11 02:50
DaemonXPthey forked most of Wine back in 2003Jun 11 02:50
TLintonohJun 11 02:50
DaemonXPand developed a lot of it on their ownJun 11 02:51
TLintonso much for open source thenJun 11 02:51
TLintonwhat's the wine license?Jun 11 02:51
DaemonXPso some of it is GPL, some is LGPL, some of it is MIT LicenseJun 11 02:51
DaemonXPWine is GPL and LGPLJun 11 02:51
TLintonicJun 11 02:51
DaemonXPthough quite a bit of the patches o make Wine DirectX work better were from CedegaJun 11 02:51
DaemonXPthey had tried to implement DirectPlay and gave up, so they gave all their code for that to WineJun 11 02:52
TLintonthat must be a bitch to codeJun 11 02:52
TLintontrying to simulate windowsJun 11 02:52
TLintoni'll give them high marks for that at leastJun 11 02:52
DaemonXPWine has better DirectX but copy protection usually crashes game setupsJun 11 02:53
DaemonXPCedega handles all the tweaking you'd normally have to do in Wine thoughJun 11 02:53
DaemonXPand copy protection worksJun 11 02:53
DaemonXPso the game will installJun 11 02:53
DaemonXPI'm not a huge fan of copy protection, but it's their game and your moneyJun 11 02:54
DaemonXPif you disagree with what they've done that much, do't buy itJun 11 02:54
TLintoni wonder how many customers the game companies lose b/c of protectionJun 11 02:54
TLintoni have a ps3, but i don't use it muchJun 11 02:54
DaemonXPquite a fewJun 11 02:54
TLintonnot big into gamesJun 11 02:54
DaemonXPIt's definitely a deciding factor for me in a lot of casesJun 11 02:54
DaemonXPif I have to do "activations" or if it says "you can only install this 3 times"Jun 11 02:55
DaemonXPI won't buy itJun 11 02:55
DaemonXPeverJun 11 02:55
DaemonXPperiodJun 11 02:55
ThistleWebeither they dont lose enough to make a difference, or the people they do lose because of it dont tell them whyJun 11 02:55
TLintonyeahJun 11 02:55
TLintonif more people would do that they'd stopJun 11 02:55
*magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jun 11 02:55
TLintonbut i guess the kiddies want their games to just workJun 11 02:55
TLintonand there's a lot of kiddiesJun 11 02:55
DaemonXPit's easier to pirate than deal with the copy protection in  some casesJun 11 02:56
DaemonXPwhich is why they brought the problem totally on themselvesJun 11 02:56
DaemonXPschestowitz: Microsoft ad in Windows Live Messenger "Download Internet Explorer 8 and we'll donate 8 meals to the hungry"Jun 11 02:59
DaemonXPI am seriousJun 11 02:59
TLintonwhat's wrong with that?Jun 11 03:03
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ThistleWebhotmail also insert M$ advert sigs too about "download IE8 today" etcJun 11 03:03
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DaemonXPnothing wrong with it I guessJun 11 03:04
DaemonXPjust kind of smells of marketing BSJun 11 03:04
ThistleWebI only noticed that because of an Amazon vendor used hotmailJun 11 03:04
DaemonXPnothing stops them from buying meals for the homeless and not making a big deal of itJun 11 03:04
DaemonXPEdelman is behind this no doubtJun 11 03:05
DaemonXPsounds exactly like the ad campaign they set up for WalmartJun 11 03:05
DaemonXPthe "Doing Good Works" thingJun 11 03:05
TLintoneverything is marketing bsJun 11 03:05
TLintonbut if they're helping someoneJun 11 03:06
TLintoni guess it's not that badJun 11 03:06
TLintonmy wife used to collect some yoghurt caps or somethingJun 11 03:07
ThistleWebyeah, just go along to your local Microsoft sponsored college to collect your free meal, attend a seminar on why Windows is the answer to all your issuesJun 11 03:07
TLintonfor cancer researchJun 11 03:07
TLintonof course she bought the yoghurtJun 11 03:07
TLintonrather than another brandJun 11 03:07
TLintonbut she liked itJun 11 03:07
TLinton(i hope)Jun 11 03:07
TLintonif someone is going to use ie8 anyway, might as well have ms help someone else in turnJun 11 03:08
ThistleWebtrueJun 11 03:08
TLintonie8 is not that bad. at least it's better than ie7Jun 11 03:09
TLintonnot the bells and whistles of firefox or konk i guess, but not that badJun 11 03:09
TLintondefinitely fasterJun 11 03:09
TLinton*konqJun 11 03:10
ThistleWebif people turn up to collect their free meals do M$ assume they are undercover Linux peeps and turn them away?Jun 11 03:10
ThistleWebin beards*Jun 11 03:10
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ThistleWebdamn, lost concentration listening to Linux Outlaws while typingJun 11 03:11
TLintonhmmJun 11 03:12
ThistleWebthat should have read > if people in beards turn up to collect their free meals do M$ assume they are undercover Linux peeps and turn them away?Jun 11 03:12
TLintoni just noticed the kde keyboard tool does not have an entry for taiwanJun 11 03:12
TLintonweirdJun 11 03:12
TLintonwell maybe it's chinaJun 11 03:12
TLintonwell the guys on ##slackware are as nice as everJun 11 03:14
TLintonbut wouldn't take a slax questionJun 11 03:14
TLintoncrapJun 11 03:14
ThistleWeblolJun 11 03:14
ThistleWebsnobsJun 11 03:14
TLintoni've never found myself in a situation like this oneJun 11 03:14
TLintoni can't turn off the laptopJun 11 03:14
DaemonXPhttp://forums.sandisk.com/sansa/board/message?board.id=view&message.id=11404&jump=trueJun 11 03:14
TLintonor i'll lose all my packagesJun 11 03:14
DaemonXPthe last post = meJun 11 03:14
DaemonXP:)Jun 11 03:14
TLintonghostbusters quotes always work :)Jun 11 03:15
DaemonXPthere's talk of Ghostbusters IIIJun 11 03:19
DaemonXPI hope Bill Murray comes back for itJun 11 03:20
DaemonXPVenkman FTW!Jun 11 03:20
DaemonXPhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgoawsT5DD0Jun 11 03:22
DaemonXPGhostbusters video gameJun 11 03:22
DaemonXPI may buy itJun 11 03:24
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DaemonXPhmm, Dan Akroyd said DVD format is deadJun 11 03:29
DaemonXPthat must be why DVD is still selling like hotcakesJun 11 03:29
DaemonXPand Sony is trying to bribe customers to Blu Ray with "incentives"Jun 11 03:29
DaemonXPI'm pretty happy with DVDs, I saw some Blu Ray demo displays and it doesn't look that much betterJun 11 03:30
DaemonXPcertainly nothing like VHS to DVDJun 11 03:30
DaemonXPand the Blu Ray players are still too big, too expensive, and too buggyJun 11 03:31
DaemonXPthat doesn't helpJun 11 03:31
ThistleWebHD really needs TVs capable of doing them justiceJun 11 03:31
DaemonXPmy TV would be capable but it has no HDMI portJun 11 03:31
DaemonXPjust Component and DVIJun 11 03:32
DaemonXPso it would downscale them to 576pJun 11 03:32
DaemonXPwhich a DVD is 480pJun 11 03:32
DaemonXPand a Blu Ray with the HDMI copy protection will output to 720pJun 11 03:32
DaemonXPso due to the software limitation imposed on an analog connection, you get something that's halfway between DVD and Blu RayJun 11 03:33
DaemonXPso you have to throw your TV set out and buy a new one because of DRMJun 11 03:33
DaemonXPso Sony is basically promoting the destruction of the environmentJun 11 03:33
DaemonXPso I'm not going to buy a player until they declare that they NEVER intend to start using the constraint token DRMJun 11 03:35
DaemonXPthen there's the AACS DRM problemJun 11 03:35
DaemonXPwhere it takes so much CPU time to decrypt the disk that your computer becomes unresponsive and your laptop battery dies twice as fastJun 11 03:36
*ugufjhfj_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))Jun 11 03:36
DaemonXPso Blu Ray just has much more going against it with the pricing and the unacceptable DRMJun 11 03:36
ThistleWebunskippable trailers at the start apparentlyJun 11 03:36
DaemonXPlike DVD tried to doJun 11 03:37
DaemonXPbut VLC lets you skip that shitJun 11 03:37
DaemonXPand AnyDVD lets you remove them from the DVD image totallyJun 11 03:37
DaemonXPalong with the copy protection and region codingJun 11 03:38
DaemonXPDVD is so thoroughly cracked that they may as well not bother putting any DRM on themJun 11 03:38
DaemonXPthat's why they want to push Blu RayJun 11 03:38
*TLinton Does a little danceJun 11 03:49
TLintonI figured it out: http://www.slax.org/forum.php?action=view&parentID=39031Jun 11 03:49
TLintonturns out i have to save the packages to the /live mountJun 11 03:50
TLintonwhich is the actual USB fsJun 11 03:50
TLintoninterestingJun 11 03:50
TLintonhmmmJun 11 03:52
TLintonapparently slax registers the silk:// protocol with kdeJun 11 03:53
ThistleWebcoolJun 11 03:53
TLintonwhich enables it to "activate" a package by simply clicking on a linkJun 11 03:53
TLintonyeah butJun 11 03:53
TLintonthere's no intermediate checking of the package's signatureJun 11 03:53
TLintonor even a checksumJun 11 03:53
TLintonit just sort of installs itJun 11 03:54
TLintonkinda sloppyJun 11 03:54
TLintoni mean, security wiseJun 11 03:54
TLintonvery convenient thoJun 11 03:54
ThistleWebI didn't spend much time in Slax, it was also over a year ago so it's probs got better since I tried itJun 11 03:55
TLintonwell i need to figure out a bit more how this worksJun 11 03:55
ThistleWebwhats the default envoronment in slax?Jun 11 03:55
TLintonkdeJun 11 03:55
ThistleWebthought soJun 11 03:56
TLinton3.5.10Jun 11 03:56
TLintonthe package activation seems to be integrated into konqueror somehowJun 11 03:56
TLintona little bubble comes out of the system menu of the konq windowJun 11 03:56
TLintontelling you the install is in progressJun 11 03:56
ThistleWebkonquerer is niceJun 11 03:57
ThistleWebas a file managerJun 11 03:57
TLintonyeahJun 11 03:57
TLintondepending on how this is implemented thoughJun 11 03:58
TLintonit's nice as a drive-by download tool :)Jun 11 03:58
TLintonand of course I'm running as root by defaultJun 11 03:58
TLintoni wonder if this is the same when it's installed to the hddJun 11 03:58
TLintoni hope notJun 11 03:58
ThistleWeboooh, Slax has gotten a lot more mature since I last used itJun 11 03:58
ThistleWebmethinks it's time for a fresh lookJun 11 03:59
TLintonyeah, it's niceJun 11 03:59
TLintonfor example, on this page: http://www.slax.org/modules.php?category=artworkJun 11 03:59
ThistleWebI'm kinda off the whole KDE thing though, I've been GTK for ages nowJun 11 03:59
TLintonclicking on "activate" will actually install the packageJun 11 03:59
ThistleWebthat aside, when I last used slax there wasnt that many packages on the site for itJun 11 03:59
TLintonon the virtual FS imageJun 11 03:59
neighborleeit MIGHT be tempting, if it had a 64bit version,,but naddaJun 11 03:59
ThistleWebit was kinda sparseJun 11 03:59
TLintonno other action requiredJun 11 04:00
TLintonit will even add whatever you installed to the kde menuJun 11 04:00
TLintonif it's supposed to go thereJun 11 04:00
ThistleWebso did you use the standard iso and add stuff? I notice they have a build option to build your ownJun 11 04:01
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ThistleWebI'm thinking a USB distro wont need some desktop stuffJun 11 04:02
ThistleWeblol, I'm sooooooo not used to QT packagesJun 11 04:03
ThistleWeblots of unfamilar namesJun 11 04:03
DaemonXPdrive by downloads?Jun 11 04:03
ThistleWebI use SMPlayer all the time for videosJun 11 04:03
DaemonXPI thought IE 6 on XP still had the monopoly on thoseJun 11 04:03
DaemonXP;)Jun 11 04:04
ThistleWebVLC is QT tooJun 11 04:04
TLintonon this one, yes. it's the standard 190mb tar image for usbJun 11 04:04
dsmith_i use media playerJun 11 04:04
dsmith_:PJun 11 04:04
TLintonno, seriouslyJun 11 04:04
TLintonyou click on the link and it installs whateverJun 11 04:04
TLintonnmap, emacs, etcJun 11 04:04
dsmith_vlc roxJun 11 04:04
TLintonof course it's not permanent i guessJun 11 04:04
ThistleWebVLC is my backup player, when SMPLayer wont recognise itJun 11 04:05
DaemonXPhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6645895.stmJun 11 04:05
DaemonXPOne in 10 web pages scrutinised by search giant Google contained malicious code that could infect a user's PC.Jun 11 04:05
DaemonXPThe vast majority exploit vulnerabilities in Microsoft's Internet Explorer browser to install themselves.Jun 11 04:06
DaemonXP:)Jun 11 04:06
TLintonyes butJun 11 04:06
DaemonXPIt found that the code was often contained in those parts of the website not designed or controlled by the website owner, such as banner adverts and widgets.Jun 11 04:06
ThistleWebthey key when trying to minimise size is to double and treble up on functionsJun 11 04:07
TLintondo you browse around unpatchedJun 11 04:07
DaemonXPI always block adsJun 11 04:07
DaemonXPno matter what I useJun 11 04:07
DaemonXP:PJun 11 04:07
TLintonand really, most people use the same 10 websites anywayJun 11 04:07
ThistleWebtry to pick one app which covers a few functions, instead of separate apps for each functionJun 11 04:07
DaemonXPeven sites like Yahoo have distributed spyware through ads on their site by mistakeJun 11 04:07
TLintonif more people would just use firefox things would be much betterJun 11 04:08
TLintonand not run as admins on their windows boxesJun 11 04:08
DaemonXPnot reallyJun 11 04:09
TLintonthat's the first thing that kills youJun 11 04:09
DaemonXPFirefox has as many problems as IEJun 11 04:09
TLintonperhaps, but it's not as targetedJun 11 04:09
TLintonand it has more featuresJun 11 04:09
TLintonadblock for oneJun 11 04:09
DaemonXPso?Jun 11 04:09
TLintonthat's worth the price of admission and then someJun 11 04:09
DaemonXPOpera can block adds without me having to install anything elseJun 11 04:09
DaemonXP*adsJun 11 04:09
TLintoncommon senseJun 11 04:10
TLintonsimpleJun 11 04:10
TLintondon't install shitJun 11 04:10
TLintondon't download shitJun 11 04:10
TLintondon't run itJun 11 04:10
TLintonof you don't trust itJun 11 04:10
TLinton*ifJun 11 04:10
TLintondon't click "OK" on that dialog telling you to install the really useful super search barJun 11 04:10
TLinton90% of all malware problems gone right thereJun 11 04:11
TLintonthe other 10% are just letting windows update runJun 11 04:11
TLintonand keep your machine patchedJun 11 04:11
TLintonhow difficult is thatJun 11 04:11
TLintonor use slax...Jun 11 04:12
TLintonwhich wipes your changes on each boot :)Jun 11 04:12
DaemonXPI like Opera 10 a lotJun 11 04:13
DaemonXPthey've really smoothed it overJun 11 04:13
dsmith_TLinton: are you ok?Jun 11 04:13
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dsmith_Firefox rox btwJun 11 04:13
freeforallHello everyoneJun 11 04:14
dsmith_helloJun 11 04:14
freeforallhow is everyone?Jun 11 04:14
DaemonXPOpera 10 has Firefox beatJun 11 04:16
DaemonXPhands downJun 11 04:16
DaemonXPright now I'm using it for IRCJun 11 04:16
DaemonXPbut it's also my email and my browserJun 11 04:16
DaemonXPit has a bit torrent client, but uTorrent is betterJun 11 04:17
TLintondsmith: why?Jun 11 04:20
TLintonfersehJun 11 04:22
TLintonthere's no dos2unix on hereJun 11 04:22
TLintonhow am i supposed to convert a fileJun 11 04:22
TLintongahJun 11 04:22
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TLintonoh cool: http://www.dos2unix.org/Jun 11 04:24
TLintonguess i won't be running my tax returns through thereJun 11 04:24
TLintonbut for a config file it's okJun 11 04:24
TLintonholy crap: http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/10/california.spector.mug.shot/index.htmlJun 11 04:37
neighborleemakes you wonder what pushes someone over the edge into murder.. various causes , sad ending ;0-Jun 11 04:41
neighborleelike abortion doctor , etc.Jun 11 04:42
neighborleewell that one is clear..hate played a rather large role in that one o_0..this one I dont know enough about case to commentJun 11 04:42
TLintoni know a little about it, but it's amazing how people without wigs or makeup lookJun 11 04:43
TLintonthat's hollywood for you, i guessJun 11 04:43
neighborleeahhh icJun 11 04:43
neighborlee' I think I killed somebody' good grief ;0Jun 11 04:44
TLintonyeahJun 11 04:44
TLintonhe looks his ageJun 11 04:44
neighborleeand then someJun 11 04:44
TLintonhaha, trueJun 11 04:44
DaemonXPhe was in Amazon Women on the Moon?Jun 11 04:45
DaemonXPI LOVED that movieJun 11 04:45
DaemonXPhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I5dVBezF9kJun 11 04:45
DaemonXPBEST SCENE EVERJun 11 04:45
DaemonXP:)Jun 11 04:45
neighborleeshe was ^Jun 11 04:45
neighborleewoman who diedJun 11 04:45
neighborleeclarksonJun 11 04:46
neighborleeEEK..if I was thinking of using mandriva, I think that might have just died..2009.1 <latest one I think>,,has updated Openoffice and is based on go-oo o_0Jun 11 04:46
neighborleethey just keep going deeper into mono land.Jun 11 04:47
neighborleewith fedora going other way who knows what others willl do though ;0-Jun 11 04:47
DaemonXPneighborleeJun 11 04:48
DaemonXPso does Debian, Ubuntu, and FedoraJun 11 04:48
neighborleenoJun 11 04:48
neighborleeif so thats totally news to meJun 11 04:48
DaemonXPthey just call them OpenOfficeJun 11 04:48
neighborleeare you sure they all use go-oo ??Jun 11 04:48
DaemonXPthey use Go-OO source thoughJun 11 04:48
DaemonXPyesJun 11 04:48
neighborleewell ,, if so fine I had no ideaJun 11 04:48
neighborleefedora no longer does :)Jun 11 04:49
neighborleewellJun 11 04:49
neighborleeat least in fedora12 ;0-Jun 11 04:49
DaemonXPI don't see why you careJun 11 04:49
DaemonXPGo-OO is a considerable improvementJun 11 04:49
neighborleeit uses mono <Jun 11 04:49
neighborleethats why, I care.Jun 11 04:49
DaemonXPit does notJun 11 04:49
neighborleeyes, it does.Jun 11 04:49
DaemonXPnoJun 11 04:49
neighborleeits right there on their pageJun 11 04:49
DaemonXPit doesn'tJun 11 04:49
neighborleefine ill show youJun 11 04:50
DaemonXPyou can write plugins for it in MonoJun 11 04:50
DaemonXPbut that's true about normal OpenOfficeJun 11 04:50
DaemonXP:PJun 11 04:50
ThistleWebneighborlee: remember the XP in the name may give a hint as to the OS in useJun 11 04:50
*DaemonXP is actually on Vista right nowJun 11 04:50
*neighborlee is tooJun 11 04:51
neighborlee'atm' is key..fedora is on other partition(s)Jun 11 04:51
DaemonXPFedora and Mandriva are currently the best in my opinionJun 11 04:51
neighborleeMono integrationJun 11 04:51
neighborleeGo-oo allows UNO automation with Mono, permitting automation from many languages such as C#, Boo, and more! (instructions; source) <<Jun 11 04:51
DaemonXPbut that changes frequentlyJun 11 04:51
DaemonXPsince all of the major ones release oftenJun 11 04:51
neighborleeon initial read..it sure as heck SOUNDS like mono is there..'mono integration'Jun 11 04:52
ThistleWebI dual boot with XP too to be fair, I just try not to use XP unless I have to, and then only for as long as I have toJun 11 04:52
DaemonXPneighborlee: You can remove Mono totallyJun 11 04:52
DaemonXPhas no effect on Go-OOJun 11 04:52
neighborleeremove it from what ?Jun 11 04:52
DaemonXPyour distributionJun 11 04:52
DaemonXPI mean the runtime and allJun 11 04:52
neighborleeI guess you dont know who I am :)Jun 11 04:52
neighborleeelse,, you would not be bothering with this..ahem..line of discussion.Jun 11 04:53
DaemonXPRichard StallGore?Jun 11 04:53
DaemonXP:PJun 11 04:53
mtnd3wNice new article on Mono: "Disinformation Disinfected, pt. 3: Banshee in Ubuntu" http://meandubuntu.wordpress.com/2009/06/10/disinformation-disinfected-pt-3-banshee-in-ubuntu/Jun 11 04:53
neighborleeThistleWeb, that is NO big dealJun 11 04:54
neighborleeThistleWeb, ..im sure..many many of us do very similar things..Jun 11 04:54
neighborlee:)Jun 11 04:54
neighborleelike we have much CHOICE ;))Jun 11 04:54
ThistleWebI keep doing things like right clicking on the desktop expecting my menu to appear and it wontJun 11 04:55
mtnd3wHe makes some good points on some of the FUD most mono trolls spread.Jun 11 04:55
neighborleeThistleWeb, LOLJun 11 04:55
neighborleemtnd3w, good for him..such info needs to be spread far and wide.Jun 11 04:56
neighborleereminds me to bookmark such things for my linux page..so noted thank you mtnd3wJun 11 04:57
mtnd3wneighborlee: npJun 11 04:57
DaemonXPGo-OO is my choice on WindowsJun 11 04:57
DaemonXPmainly cause it's faster than OOo and doesn't force me to install 100 megs of JavaJun 11 04:57
neighborleewell you know, we all have free will..rejoice in yours I guess ;)Jun 11 04:57
DaemonXPReiser4Jun 11 04:58
DaemonXP:)Jun 11 04:58
DaemonXPseriously, I'd use Ext4 were it not for the poor performanceJun 11 04:59
DaemonXP(after the Linux 2.6.30 patches)Jun 11 04:59
DaemonXPor the data loss (pre-2.6.30)Jun 11 04:59
mtnd3wDaemonXP: i've been on ext4, right now 2.6.30 smpJun 11 05:00
mtnd3wDaemonXP: everything seems fineJun 11 05:00
DaemonXPbut if I wanted to have poor performance, I could use Ext3, and if I wanted to have to protect my data by keeping it all in a binary database, I'd use SQLite and forget about what file system was under itJun 11 05:00
mtnd3wDaemonXP: i got a better bootup performance reallyJun 11 05:00
DaemonXPXFS has always served me well on LinuxJun 11 05:02
DaemonXPthe first time I had the system go down with Ext4 I lost over 100 megs of filesJun 11 05:02
DaemonXPI don't trust itJun 11 05:02
mtnd3wiJun 11 05:03
mtnd3wi'll keep an eye for any issuesJun 11 05:03
mtnd3wbut so far so goodJun 11 05:03
DaemonXPif you do, then it's YOUR funeralJun 11 05:03
DaemonXPso more power to youJun 11 05:03
mtnd3wnot really, i have my data on a serverJun 11 05:04
mtnd3wonly will lose the OS itself, nothing majorJun 11 05:04
DaemonXPthe only case I've found that XFS has a hard time with is delete thousands of really tiny filesJun 11 05:05
DaemonXPother than that it's a good file systemJun 11 05:05
DaemonXP;.the design goals of BtrFS will make it the best overall file system, if they pan outJun 11 05:06
DaemonXPright now, performance isn't really that goodJun 11 05:06
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TLintondidn't firefox have a problem with ext3?Jun 11 05:31
TLintonrelated to sqlite or somethingJun 11 05:32
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TLintoncome to think of it it must have the same problem on windowsJun 11 05:38
TLintonit hits the hdd big time every time i switch the folder for a bookmarkJun 11 05:38
TLintoneven though the dialog has a "Done" buttonJun 11 05:38
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TLintonso it must be bookmarking from the startJun 11 05:40
TLintonand *removing* the bookmark if you hit cancelJun 11 05:40
TLintonniceJun 11 05:40
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DaemonXPYour User Agent is: Opera/9.80 (Windows NT 6.0; U; en) Presto/2.2.15 Version/10.00Jun 11 06:00
DaemonXP:PJun 11 06:00
DaemonXPhttp://www.opera.com/browser/next/Jun 11 06:01
mtnd3wRob Weir Exposes an Anti-ODF Whisper Campaign http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2009061001520015Jun 11 06:02
DaemonXPlike I saidJun 11 06:02
DaemonXPFirefox = crapJun 11 06:02
DaemonXPAt least Opera bothers to do a proper portJun 11 06:02
TLintonit's not *that* badJun 11 06:02
DaemonXPFirefox is about one-third slower on LinuxJun 11 06:02
DaemonXPas benchmarked by PeacekeeperJun 11 06:03
TLintoni knowJun 11 06:03
TLintonbut it's a good browserJun 11 06:03
TLintonspeed isn't everythingJun 11 06:03
DaemonXPI think the reason Opera ports better is because that's what they need it to doJun 11 06:03
TLintonbesides, compared to ie it's the bees' kneesJun 11 06:03
DaemonXPit runs on several operating systems, across many different CPU typesJun 11 06:04
DaemonXPand devicesJun 11 06:04
DaemonXPFirefox can't fit on a device, so typically it's either Opera or something Webkit-basedJun 11 06:04
DaemonXPFirefox is too bloatedJun 11 06:04
DaemonXPhell, Apple even managed a portable SafariJun 11 06:05
DaemonXPMicrosoft did Pocket Internet ExplorerJun 11 06:05
DaemonXPNOBODY has done a Firefox for devicesJun 11 06:05
DaemonXPit's not like there's no demandJun 11 06:06
DaemonXPif it was easy to port Firefox to a device than pay for Opera licenses, someone would haveJun 11 06:06
TLintonit might not be suitable for devices, but it's fine for pc'sJun 11 06:07
TLintonthe value of firefox is not its speed or portabilityJun 11 06:08
TLintonit's that it's an alternative to ieJun 11 06:08
TLintonby that measure, it has already wonJun 11 06:08
TLintonno matter how horribly bloated and slow it isJun 11 06:08
mtnd3wmicrosoft if fud raping the internet with anti-ODF propagandaJun 11 06:11
mtnd3wthese MS execs also...Jun 11 06:11
TLintonwhich ms execsJun 11 06:12
DaemonXPOpera is also an alternativeJun 11 06:19
TLintontrueJun 11 06:19
DaemonXPand it does support the W3C standards better than Firefox for that matterJun 11 06:19
TLintoni never liked opera thoughJun 11 06:19
TLintonthat's just a personal preferenceJun 11 06:20
DaemonXPhttp://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7471/70400836.pngJun 11 06:22
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TLinton_konq crashed when i was trying to upload a screenshotJun 11 06:27
TLinton_gahJun 11 06:27
TLinton_of itselfJun 11 06:27
TLinton_failing that testJun 11 06:27
TLinton_hahaJun 11 06:28
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DaemonXPFAIL x2Jun 11 06:29
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TLinton_http://imgur.com/NyQ9V.pngJun 11 06:34
TLinton_firefox on windows scores 71/100Jun 11 06:36
TLinton_but ie8 fails as wellJun 11 06:36
DaemonXPIE fails miserablyJun 11 06:37
DaemonXPhttp://img8.imageshack.us/img8/3152/45481253.pngJun 11 06:39
DaemonXPIE 8 on ACID 3Jun 11 06:39
EDavidBurghttp://eric.grubbn.org/acid3win.pngJun 11 06:39
EDavidBurgSafari 4 on OS X 10.5.7Jun 11 06:39
DaemonXPSafari isn't really a browser thoughJun 11 06:40
DaemonXPit's a self abuse kitJun 11 06:40
DaemonXPported from KDEJun 11 06:40
DaemonXP:)Jun 11 06:40
EDavidBurgI like it just fineJun 11 06:41
EDavidBurghttp://eric.grubbn.org/acid3ff35b99.pngJun 11 06:41
EDavidBurgFF3.5b99 on the sameJun 11 06:41
DaemonXPwell obviously Safari is better on the Mac, they have things like extensionsJun 11 06:42
DaemonXPif you use it on MacJun 11 06:42
DaemonXPSafari on Windows is crapJun 11 06:42
EDavidBurgI don't care much for the acid tests anyways, it doesn't show real world performance.Jun 11 06:42
DaemonXPcan't even block ads or anythingJun 11 06:42
DaemonXPno way to override new window handlingJun 11 06:42
DaemonXPit's totally dumbed downJun 11 06:42
EDavidBurgWell, no one cares about Safari for Windows, not even AppleJun 11 06:43
EDavidBurgthe only people who use it are people using boot campJun 11 06:43
DaemonXPit's not much better on the Mac from what I understandJun 11 06:43
EDavidBurgand those who wish desperately they could afford macsJun 11 06:43
DaemonXPthey were talking about hand editing config filesJun 11 06:43
DaemonXPto control window behaviorJun 11 06:43
EDavidBurgDaemonXP: from what you understand or from what you've actually used?Jun 11 06:43
DaemonXPeven IE can do that in the config menuJun 11 06:43
EDavidBurgthey'd two different thingsJun 11 06:43
EDavidBurgthey're*Jun 11 06:44
DaemonXPI was trying to figure out how to get it to open new windows as tabs and found out that there's no GUI option for that on either Windows or MacJun 11 06:44
DaemonXPand Mac users have to edit a config fileJun 11 06:44
EDavidBurg...Jun 11 06:45
EDavidBurgNo.Jun 11 06:45
DaemonXPI found the Windows version of that file but it was some kind of binary formatJun 11 06:45
DaemonXPfuck AppleJun 11 06:45
DaemonXPall their Windows software is absolute bullshitJun 11 06:45
DaemonXPtheir devices are TOTALLY incompatible with LinuxJun 11 06:46
DaemonXPand the Mac is too dumbed down and overpriced to even considerJun 11 06:46
DaemonXPso really what good are they?Jun 11 06:46
EDavidBurgso you're knocking a company for not spending millions to make their products work better for people who don't want to give them money?Jun 11 06:46
DaemonXPI'm not using an iPod and iTunes for Windows is reason number oneJun 11 06:47
EDavidBurgyou know what, I'm not going to do it. No FUD-baiting for me tonight.Jun 11 06:47
DaemonXPiTunes is not freeware you knowJun 11 06:47
DaemonXPits main purpose is managing an ipodJun 11 06:47
DaemonXPwhich are $300Jun 11 06:47
DaemonXPif they can't even get iTunes to work right, why am I going to buy its companion device?Jun 11 06:47
EDavidBurgYou're talking to yourself now, because you're just saying things that are plain wrong and there's no way i'll convince you otherwise.Jun 11 06:47
DaemonXPTell me why iTunes is over 80 megs just for the setup file, works so poorly, and has to add 7 system services that are always running?Jun 11 06:48
DaemonXPwhen I can plug in any other portable there is and Windows can just sync them for meJun 11 06:48
TLinton_agreed on the itunes thingJun 11 06:48
TLinton_i actually installed it by mistake along with quicktimeJun 11 06:48
DaemonXPhehJun 11 06:49
DaemonXPbig god damned mistake!Jun 11 06:49
TLinton_and then i said what the hell, i'll try itJun 11 06:49
DaemonXPnow you have like 47 things to removeJun 11 06:49
DaemonXPpiece by pieceJun 11 06:49
DaemonXP:PJun 11 06:49
TLinton_just as a media player, i don't even have an ipodJun 11 06:49
TLinton_it sucksJun 11 06:49
TLinton_even the old MusicMatch is betterJun 11 06:49
DaemonXPQuicktime is total bullshit tooJun 11 06:49
TLinton_BUTJun 11 06:49
DaemonXPthere's no reason to have any of Apple's piss poor softwareJun 11 06:49
DaemonXPVLC or KLite Codec Pack can both play Apple formatsJun 11 06:50
TLinton_i've never used it on OSX, so i don't know how good or bad it might be thereJun 11 06:50
TLinton_i suspect it's a hell of a lot better if so many people use itJun 11 06:50
DaemonXPK-Lite has Quicktime Alternative and Real AlternativeJun 11 06:50
TLinton_never been impressed by apple software for windowsJun 11 06:50
DaemonXPso you never need wither one againJun 11 06:50
EDavidBurgTLinton_: all of apple's software is 10x better on OS XJun 11 06:50
TLinton_the first ports of quicktime were crapJun 11 06:50
DaemonXPif Apple makes it, I don't want itJun 11 06:51
DaemonXPperiodJun 11 06:51
TLinton_David: yeah, i bet it isJun 11 06:51
EDavidBurgDaemonXP: quite open minded of youJun 11 06:51
DaemonXPyeah, cause OS X is so much more painful to useJun 11 06:51
TLinton_if it was as bad as their windows software no one would use itJun 11 06:51
EDavidBurgalso, what's with people not having tab complete in this channel?Jun 11 06:51
EDavidBurgif you're in any decent client (read: irssi) then you can tab complete nicks a la the terminalJun 11 06:51
DaemonXPTLinton_: Macs are just bizarreJun 11 06:52
DaemonXPthey try to second guess youJun 11 06:52
DaemonXPon everythingJun 11 06:52
TLinton_never owned oneJun 11 06:52
EDavidBurg*sigh* here we go againJun 11 06:52
TLinton_i've been tempted thoJun 11 06:52
DaemonXPthere's just no explaining how infuriating it is to get a Mac to do anythingJun 11 06:52
EDavidBurgranting about a platform he's never usedJun 11 06:52
DaemonXPno, actuallyJun 11 06:52
TLinton_but OS X is unix-ish underneath, no?Jun 11 06:52
DaemonXPI've used OS XJun 11 06:52
DaemonXPand OS 9Jun 11 06:52
DaemonXPand 8Jun 11 06:52
DaemonXPand 7.5.5Jun 11 06:52
EDavidBurgTLinton_: yesJun 11 06:52
EDavidBurgDaemonXP: turns out, those are completely different OSsJun 11 06:53
TLinton_so it can't be *that* badJun 11 06:53
TLinton_and it's prettyJun 11 06:53
DaemonXPyou're right, I liked them betterJun 11 06:53
EDavidBurgDaemonXP: that's like saying "I've used Minix, so this linux crap is a piece of cake!"Jun 11 06:53
TLinton_hell of a lot prettier than linuxJun 11 06:53
TLinton_but pretty doesn't get you from point a to point bJun 11 06:53
TLinton_not usually anywayJun 11 06:53
TLinton_unless you're a hooker :)Jun 11 06:53
EDavidBurgDaemonXP: and actually that's a bad comparison, because linux was supposed to be similar to minix. 9 and X are COMPLETELY differentJun 11 06:53
DaemonXPOS X is the only operating system I know of that makes you click "Eject" on a thumb driverJun 11 06:54
DaemonXP*driveJun 11 06:54
DaemonXPor else it bitchesJun 11 06:54
DaemonXPthat you didn't eject it properlyJun 11 06:54
EDavidBurgDaemonXP: um. heard of safely remove hardware?Jun 11 06:54
EDavidBurgor nautilus...Jun 11 06:54
DaemonXPit also disabled screenshots of DVD playbackJun 11 06:54
EDavidBurgit's a good practice to avoid losing dataJun 11 06:54
DaemonXPunless you use scrot from the terminalJun 11 06:54
DaemonXPand it respects all the Mackeral-Vision/DRM crapJun 11 06:55
EDavidBurgHow dare they follow the law...Jun 11 06:55
DaemonXPfuck themJun 11 06:55
TLinton_does os x have a write-back cache to external devices like windows?Jun 11 06:55
DaemonXPthey're uselessJun 11 06:55
*EDavidBurg snaps out of itJun 11 06:55
EDavidBurgNO, I will not keep talking to you about Apple, DaemonXPJun 11 06:55
EDavidBurgyou're fine, TLinton_Jun 11 06:55
DaemonXPCrappleJun 11 06:56
TLinton_lolJun 11 06:56
DaemonXPthe guys that wish they were the gangsters that Microsoft isJun 11 06:56
DaemonXP:PJun 11 06:56
TLinton_don't get excited, it's just technology :)Jun 11 06:56
TLinton_some of it sucks and some of it doesn'tJun 11 06:56
EDavidBurgDaemonXP: i recommend you read this http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=7347446&postcount=1Jun 11 06:57
DaemonXPVLC doesn't obey Mackeral-Vision like Crapple doesJun 11 06:57
DaemonXPit obeys the userJun 11 06:57
DaemonXPhttp://img41.imageshack.us/img41/1171/93785066.pngJun 11 06:59
TLinton_oh wow, opera looks very nice thereJun 11 07:00
*TLinton_ is slightly envious :)Jun 11 07:00
TLinton_god facebook is annoying...Jun 11 07:01
TLinton_at first it's funJun 11 07:01
TLinton_and then one day you wake up and you have 300 "friends"Jun 11 07:01
TLinton_and it's unusableJun 11 07:02
TLinton_and the emails...Jun 11 07:02
TLinton_god i hate the emailsJun 11 07:02
TLinton_but i don't do anything about it :)Jun 11 07:02
TLinton_i'm a slobJun 11 07:02
DaemonXPTLinton_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MackerelvisionJun 11 07:03
DaemonXP:)Jun 11 07:03
DaemonXPanother Wikipedia easter egg by yours trulyJun 11 07:03
TLinton_hahahaJun 11 07:04
TLinton_niceJun 11 07:04
TLinton_don't they delete those though?Jun 11 07:04
TLinton_redirects that make "political statements" and suchJun 11 07:04
DaemonXPsometimesJun 11 07:04
TLinton_i remember a few of the ones for dubya got nuked as wellJun 11 07:04
TLinton_but they were crassJun 11 07:04
DaemonXPI had Tricky Dick Fun Bill redirect to the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008Jun 11 07:05
DaemonXPand it took like 7 monthsJun 11 07:05
DaemonXPbefore they found itJun 11 07:05
TLinton_hahaJun 11 07:05
DaemonXP"What to do, what to do. One 300 dollar hookerbot or 300 one dollar hookerbots?"Jun 11 07:06
DaemonXP:)Jun 11 07:06
TLinton_ok, i just "activated" xchat here, let me see if it will workJun 11 07:07
TLinton_hang5Jun 11 07:07
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TLintonalrightJun 11 07:09
TLintonxchat it isJun 11 07:09
EDavidBurgI was wondering why you get so many mibbit users, that makes sense nowJun 11 07:09
TLintonit's not that badJun 11 07:09
EDavidBurgI like xchatJun 11 07:09
TLintoni was surprised it works so well on konqJun 11 07:09
EDavidBurgbut irssi will always be betterJun 11 07:09
TLintonbut nothing beats an actual IRC clientJun 11 07:10
DaemonXPOperaJun 11 07:10
DaemonXP:)Jun 11 07:10
TLintondidn't firefox have one as well?Jun 11 07:11
TLintoni never tried itJun 11 07:11
TLintonif it was a xul app it probably wasn't worth tryingJun 11 07:11
EDavidBurgopera is the new emacsJun 11 07:11
DaemonXPChatzilla was part of Mozilla SuiteJun 11 07:11
DaemonXPnow part of SeamonkeyJun 11 07:11
DaemonXPavailable as a Firefox extensionJun 11 07:12
TLintonchatzilla, that's rightJun 11 07:12
DaemonXPno, Apple is just a poserJun 11 07:12
TLintonit was a big deal, iircJun 11 07:12
DaemonXPthey like to rip off a lot of other people's softwareJun 11 07:12
DaemonXPcause they have no talentJun 11 07:12
EDavidBurgwhat was that even responding to?Jun 11 07:12
DaemonXPOpera is not an emacsJun 11 07:13
EDavidBurgwhat does that have to do with apple?Jun 11 07:13
DaemonXPthe extra functionality is not bloat because the framework for all of it was already thereJun 11 07:13
EDavidBurgwhat does that have to do with apple?Jun 11 07:14
DaemonXPdon't be so hard on a company that knows how to make useful software that does lots of things well, vs. Apple which makes software that does hardly anything, gets what it does do wrong, and ends up with a package that's 10 times the size it should beJun 11 07:14
DaemonXP;)Jun 11 07:14
EDavidBurgi still don't see how my comment had to do with apple...Jun 11 07:15
EDavidBurgi think you just like talking about themJun 11 07:15
EDavidBurggives you a warm fuzzy feeling when all of those years of rage have an object to hateJun 11 07:15
EDavidBurgthat was a poorly phrased sentence...Jun 11 07:16
DaemonXPCommon misconceptions about Apple users?Jun 11 07:18
DaemonXPI'd like to know how idiots that can't figure out how to use a normal PC make enough money for a MacJun 11 07:18
EDavidBurgs/Apple users/Mac OS X/Jun 11 07:18
EDavidBurgI think it's time for more rosetta stoneJun 11 07:19
EDavidBurgwhen you've had your tantrum, let me know and I'll see if your milk is cold yet.Jun 11 07:19
TLintoni have a fish that eats meat :)Jun 11 07:20
schestowitz9 Hostage Officers Killed at Peruvian Oil Facility  < http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/07/world/americas/07peru.html >Jun 11 07:20
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TLintoni swear, you drop some ham in the tank and he eats itJun 11 07:20
TLintonit's uncannyJun 11 07:20
schestowitzFormer Us Mortgage Chief Executive Charged With Fraud  < http://www.buzzle.com/articles/274440.html >Jun 11 07:20
DaemonXPfinallyJun 11 07:22
DaemonXP1 down, thousands to goJun 11 07:22
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schestowitzIt's a startJun 11 07:39
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ushimitsudokihowdyJun 11 08:40
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schestowitzDid you see this? http://www.moscowtimes.ru/article/600/42/378477.htmJun 11 09:17
DaemonXPone of the most corrupt places in the world is investigating Microsoft?Jun 11 09:21
DaemonXPThe UK ended up getting more corrupt on the latest Corruption Perception IndexJun 11 09:22
DaemonXPhehJun 11 09:22
DaemonXPonly half a point down is the United statesJun 11 09:22
DaemonXPhttp://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/2008-transparency-international-corruption-perceptions.htmlJun 11 09:23
DaemonXPthe most corrupt country in the world is SomaliaJun 11 09:23
DaemonXPthe least corrupt is DenmarkJun 11 09:23
fewaDaemonXP, alot of that corruption is emphasised by efforts n the US to continue the cold warJun 11 09:23
DaemonXP"The index defines corruption as the abuse of public office for private gain and measures the degree to which corruption is perceived to exist among a country's public officials and politicians."Jun 11 09:24
DaemonXPthe US is in 18th place of 180 places on the indexJun 11 09:24
fewaDaemonXP, have you read that stats on our own government reventally?Jun 11 09:24
DaemonXPtied with Belguim and JapanJun 11 09:24
DaemonXPIsrael is 33Jun 11 09:25
fewaonlyy 9% of citizens think Congress is doing its jobJun 11 09:25
fewaread that again: 9%Jun 11 09:25
DaemonXPRussia is in place 147Jun 11 09:25
fewawait im assuming your americanJun 11 09:25
DaemonXPactually you're citing an old pollJun 11 09:26
DaemonXPthat was taken when the Republicans were in majorityJun 11 09:26
DaemonXPit's risen to 37%Jun 11 09:26
DaemonXPunder the DemocratsJun 11 09:26
DaemonXP:)Jun 11 09:26
fewawell yeahJun 11 09:26
DaemonXPstill not great, but at least we're back in the double digitsJun 11 09:27
DaemonXPhehJun 11 09:27
fewahttp://firedoglake.com/2009/06/08/the-next-big-taxpayer-bailout-imf-could-get-hundreds-of-billions-for-european-banks/Jun 11 09:28
fewahttp://firedoglake.com/2009/06/10/red-state-targets-vulnerable-democrats-in-conservative-districts-over-imf/Jun 11 09:28
schestowitzObamabranding(rJun 11 09:29
fewahttp://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-2346Jun 11 09:29
DaemonXPthe Republicans are so rotten that anything else is good in comparisonJun 11 09:29
schestowitzEven ChavezJun 11 09:29
schestowitzChavez 2012... for US leadership ;-0Jun 11 09:30
DaemonXPtechnically, it's illegal for me to watch my DVDs in VLCJun 11 09:30
DaemonXPcause it has to crack the CSS before it can load themJun 11 09:31
DaemonXPit stores the key it finds in the user's home folder so it doesn't take as long to start the disc next timeJun 11 09:32
DaemonXPit's only a 40 bit cipher, so it's trivialJun 11 09:34
DaemonXPbut it still counts as "protection" under the lawJun 11 09:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @davidgerard yeah, just do what they do with MSlive, re-badge it and re-sell. (IMO)Jun 11 09:35
DaemonXPmost DVD drives make it so that VLC has to brute force every disc you playJun 11 09:38
DaemonXPthe copy of VLC that came on this month's PC World magazine has a fully functional VLCJun 11 09:40
DaemonXPcomplete with LibDVDCSSJun 11 09:40
DaemonXPUbuntu's "The Open CD" had VLC for Windows, but they crippled itJun 11 09:40
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DaemonXPhmmmmJun 11 09:53
DaemonXPVLC can't decode the audio on this DVDJun 11 09:53
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DaemonXPhmmm, the nightly build canJun 11 09:57
DaemonXP*shrugs*Jun 11 09:57
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DaemonXPschestowitz: THose "Essential Windows apps" CDs they put in those magazinesJun 11 10:09
DaemonXPmost of them are free software anymoreJun 11 10:09
DaemonXPnot the demos and crippleware they used to slap in themJun 11 10:09
oiaohmIt comes down to profit.Jun 11 10:10
oiaohmCurrently lot of companies are not paying mags for disk space.Jun 11 10:10
DaemonXPyeah, well, I saw things like Firefox, VLC, Blender, GIMP, etcJun 11 10:11
DaemonXPso that's a good sign I supposeJun 11 10:11
DaemonXPit'd be nice if someone made a decent free software CD burning app for WindowsJun 11 10:11
DaemonXPthe closest thing I've found is ImgBurn, which is just freewareJun 11 10:11
DaemonXPI don't get itJun 11 10:12
DaemonXPif you never intend on making money on something, why leave it closed source?Jun 11 10:12
oiaohmSome people are hopeful.Jun 11 10:13
DaemonXPthe guy that does ImgBurn has left it as freeware since 2005Jun 11 10:13
DaemonXPbefore that it was DVD DecrypterJun 11 10:14
DaemonXPI would think he'd put it under some kind of open source license if he isn't gonna sell itJun 11 10:14
oiaohmBy remain closed source someone can buy you out and shutdown down development.Jun 11 10:14
oiaohmAs I say are hopeful.Jun 11 10:14
DaemonXPwhat I don't understand is why people pay for shit like NeroJun 11 10:16
DaemonXPhmmmmJun 11 10:21
DaemonXPOpera on Linux is taking extra care to integrate properly with GNOME and KDEJun 11 10:21
DaemonXPfor their Opera 10 releaseJun 11 10:21
DaemonXPnice to seeJun 11 10:21
oiaohmMost people don't pay for Nero it comes bundled with the recorder.Jun 11 10:24
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schestowitzOK, done posting links - http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/11/rcs-are-nearer/ - on to some postsJun 11 10:29
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DaemonXPI buy OEM partsJun 11 10:36
DaemonXPthey usually don't come with anything but the hardwareJun 11 10:36
DaemonXPTigerdirect is giving away free Vista discs with some hard drivesJun 11 10:37
DaemonXPto get rid of them I'd imagineJun 11 10:37
oiaohmOver here its common for particular brands of burners to ship with nero limited version.Jun 11 10:38
oiaohmAlong with powerdvd and the like.Jun 11 10:38
DaemonXPretail parts yeahJun 11 10:42
DaemonXPbut I didn't feel like spending $50 on a DVD writer I could get for $20 as OEMJun 11 10:43
DaemonXPjust to get Nero Crippleware Edition and a pretty box :PJun 11 10:43
oiaohmThat is boxless.Jun 11 10:43
oiaohmThe cd is taped to the top of the drive.Jun 11 10:44
oiaohmNote I said some.   The stupid part it costs the same OEM with or without the cd taped to the top with nero on it.Jun 11 10:45
oiaohmAt one point here the cd was shipping inside the drive.Jun 11 10:46
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft’s Worst Patch Tuesday Ever, Intent to Shut Out the Security Industry < http://ping.fm/DoFGa >Jun 11 11:10
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Rally to Put More Mono in Ubuntu Backfires, Users Left Concerned by Mono < http://ping.fm/CXb7D >Jun 11 11:30
DaemonXPschestowitz: I only got a handful of security updates yesterdayJun 11 11:32
DaemonXPlike 8-9Jun 11 11:32
DaemonXPthe rest were bug patches for Media CenterJun 11 11:32
magentarinteresting article http://www.osnews.com/story/21653/Microsoft_Won_t_Fix_Windows_7_s_UACJun 11 11:34
DaemonXPUAC will always be an annoyance as much as su/sudo is on LinuxJun 11 11:37
DaemonXPthe only thing Microsoft can do is reduce the number of things it warns you aboutJun 11 11:37
magentarwith all the complexity and indirection added to the os by uac, microsoft can still not get it right. the super user mode in linux is plain and simple and it just works.Jun 11 11:38
DaemonXPwell, what Microsoft should have done is make the user elevate to bring up control panelJun 11 11:39
DaemonXPbut not for any of the applets loaded FROM itJun 11 11:39
DaemonXPwhat it does instead is not elevate to bring it up, but prompt me every time I want an applet that needs elevatedJun 11 11:40
DaemonXPthat's the most unbelievably stupid thing I've seen in UACJun 11 11:40
magentaryes it's very annoying, but it still is not secure. what a paradox...Jun 11 11:40
DaemonXPMandriva for exampleJun 11 11:40
DaemonXPyou elevate to bring up the control centerJun 11 11:40
DaemonXPbut not the appletsJun 11 11:40
DaemonXPVista should do something like thatJun 11 11:41
magentarwell it would also mean that you would have the control panel (which is basically an explorer instance) open for a long time running as super user, even though just the applets need priviledges.Jun 11 11:41
DaemonXPbut since Explorer processes are kept separate, other instances are still running as the userJun 11 11:42
DaemonXPwhich makes senseJun 11 11:42
DaemonXPapps running as user can't interfere with apps running as adminJun 11 11:43
magentarcould be, i don't know how it works internally. i just remember the trojans for win7 that simulated some mouseclicks to disable uac, i guess similar things could be done wit the explorer instanceJun 11 11:43
DaemonXP64-bit Windows also has DEP turned on by default which helps to enforce thatJun 11 11:43
DaemonXP32-bit Windows, you need to turn DEP on for all processes that aren't part of the systemJun 11 11:44
oiaohmThere are a lot of old secuirty flaws in windows.Jun 11 11:44
oiaohmThat render UAC as nothing more than a minor pest to attackers.Jun 11 11:45
DaemonXPwell, IE seems to maybe be getting betterJun 11 11:46
DaemonXPI only got 3 security patches for IE 8Jun 11 11:46
magentarhaven't used windows for over a year now ;) just at work. partly because it always fails to install or crashes with bluescreensJun 11 11:47
DaemonXPI don't really use IE that muchJun 11 11:47
magentarthe bad thing is, many applications use it internallyJun 11 11:47
DaemonXPyeah, Winamp embeds IE to look up song infoJun 11 11:48
DaemonXPI'm starting to like Foobar 2000 better anywayJun 11 11:49
DaemonXPwhat's really lacking is a decent PDF viewer for WindowsJun 11 11:57
DaemonXPthe only decent one is FoxIt which lately is trying to dump browser toolbars and crap as part of the installJun 11 11:57
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How Microsoft Failed to Work with Free Software < http://ping.fm/7UAHa >Jun 11 12:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Russia to Microsoft: Stop Forcing People to Buy Windows < http://ping.fm/HVHwd >Jun 11 12:40
DaemonXPfunny how the Russians only care after Microsoft starts yanking out all their hacked OEM bootloadersJun 11 12:54
DaemonXPseriously? Microsoft sells Windows in Russia?Jun 11 12:56
DaemonXPwho knew?Jun 11 12:56
DaemonXPI thought it was all $5 discs from "some guy"Jun 11 12:56
schestowitzNaaaJun 11 13:04
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft IP Ventures and Intellectual Ventures < http://ping.fm/8LJzc >Jun 11 13:15
trmancohunJun 11 13:15
trmancothere isn't much diference between the windows firefox 3.5 build and the linux 3.5 build (not from mozilla)Jun 11 13:16
schestowitzWho are you calling "Hun"? DaemonXP?Jun 11 13:16
schestowitztrmanco: maybe Mozilla compiles it differently nowJun 11 13:17
trmancothe build I'm using isn't from MozillaJun 11 13:17
trmancothe linux oneJun 11 13:17
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schestowitzThose weasels from Mozilla :pJun 11 13:18
trmancoTEST                   COMPARISON            FROM                 TO             DETAILSJun 11 13:19
trmanco=============================================================================Jun 11 13:19
trmanco** TOTAL **:           *1.15x as slow*   2278.4ms +/- 3.3%   2618.2ms +/- 1.0%     significantJun 11 13:19
trmanco0.3 msJun 11 13:20
*mib_n3dsic is now known as _Mutex_Jun 11 13:20
trmancothats not muchJun 11 13:20
DaemonXPnot on sunspiderJun 11 13:24
DaemonXPrun PeacekeeperJun 11 13:24
trmancoI deleted the windows build already :|Jun 11 13:26
DaemonXPhttp://service.futuremark.com/peacekeeper/index.actionJun 11 13:26
trmancoyeahJun 11 13:26
trmancoI'm already thereJun 11 13:26
trmancobut with the linux buildJun 11 13:26
DaemonXPPeacekeeper is a better overall testJun 11 13:28
schestowitzLast.fm co-founders pack up record boxes < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/11/last_fm_cofounders_quit/ >Jun 11 13:28
schestowitzPacekeeperJun 11 13:28
schestowitzDroll wordsJun 11 13:28
DaemonXPIE 8 is only half as fast as Opera 10 on Sunspider, but it's 5 times slowerJun 11 13:29
DaemonXPonce you give it a full battery of testsJun 11 13:29
schestowitzVenezuela spits out Coke Zero < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/11/coke_zero_ban/ >Jun 11 13:29
DaemonXPso Sunspider actually paints IE in a better light :PJun 11 13:29
DaemonXPCoke Zero is some nasty shitJun 11 13:30
schestowitz"Barclays Bank is cutting 200 jobs from its IT department, but the bank is hoping it will reduce the number of redundancies originally announced." http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/11/barclays_job_consultation/ Probably victimising tellers, not the people who cash in from all thisJun 11 13:30
schestowitzDaemonXP: Windows Zero would be a nice nameJun 11 13:30
schestowitzOr Bank ZeroJun 11 13:30
DaemonXPall the Windows aste with just one little calorie?Jun 11 13:30
DaemonXP:)Jun 11 13:30
trmanco850 pointsJun 11 13:30
trmancobut my cpu is oldJun 11 13:30
DaemonXP*tasteJun 11 13:31
trmanco870*Jun 11 13:31
trmancoShiretoko(v3.5b99) Scored:Jun 11 13:31
trmanco870 PointsJun 11 13:31
DaemonXPFirefox 3.5b4 got 1066 on Fedora on this system and 1642 on VistaJun 11 13:31
DaemonXPthe Windows build kicks the Linux build's assJun 11 13:32
DaemonXPwhich shows you that they only really care how it does on WindowsJun 11 13:32
DaemonXPwhen the Windows version is over a third fasterJun 11 13:32
trmancoDaemonXP, is the Linux build from Mozilla?Jun 11 13:33
schestowitzVideo Game Companies Still Bitching About Used Game Sales < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090606/1226365155.shtml >. They just need to modify (invent) laws againJun 11 13:33
trmancoor did you install it from the repos?Jun 11 13:34
ushimitsudokitiredJun 11 13:35
DaemonXPthe one in FedoraJun 11 13:35
trmancotry the official build and compare it  like thatJun 11 13:36
DaemonXPI also got similar results from the one in MandrivaJun 11 13:36
trmancothose aren't pgo optimizedJun 11 13:36
schestowitztrmanco: WordPress now has a 'magic' button for upgrade. Did you try it?Jun 11 13:38
schestowitzBTW, WordPress is spywareJun 11 13:38
schestowitzit phones Automattic all the timeJun 11 13:38
ushimitsudokithat's calling for kismet i think?Jun 11 13:39
schestowitzushimitsudoki: see the latest post about MonoJun 11 13:39
schestowitzushimitsudoki: maybe that tooJun 11 13:39
schestowitzAkismet is a separate piece of spy softtwareJun 11 13:39
schestowitzBut it's not intended to be maliciousJun 11 13:39
ushimitsudokii think it has to be a bit "spy"-like just to workJun 11 13:40
schestowitzUS Officials Finally Going After Online Organized Criminals In Other Countries < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090608/1721485170.shtml >Jun 11 13:40
ushimitsudokiyeah lots of activity on my little blog on that last postJun 11 13:40
ushimitsudokigraph jumped way up after reddit.com and linuxtoday picked it upJun 11 13:40
*jbartosik has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jun 11 13:40
ushimitsudokifor me it's a lot of hits :)Jun 11 13:40
schestowitzGoogle not worried by anti-trust investigations < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1271180/google-worried-anti-trust-investigations >Jun 11 13:42
schestowitzI've just looked at BN stats. Almost 10k unique visitors per day some days. Jun 11 13:43
ushimitsudokiwow, I'm usually around 300 :)Jun 11 13:44
ushimitsudokibig news man hereJun 11 13:44
schestowitzI can't compare this to previous months because it was a different server with other s/w, but I only look at stats like twice a weekJun 11 13:44
ushimitsudokiactually i'm lying: now that i look at the chart, it's closer to being around 250Jun 11 13:44
MinceRr4wrJun 11 13:44
ushimitsudokinow i'm sad :(Jun 11 13:44
schestowitzAnother headline: Microsoft burns Money < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1271179/microsoft-burns-money >Jun 11 13:44
schestowitzushimitsudoki: how many posts in the blog though?Jun 11 13:45
ushimitsudoki161 posts 468 commentsJun 11 13:45
schestowitzWe were about the same around the first 100, I thinkJun 11 13:45
schestowitzNow we have ~6600 postsJun 11 13:45
ushimitsudokialmost 2900 unique visitors today thoughJun 11 13:45
*schestowitz looks to see if Jo is thereJun 11 13:46
schestowitzWho's this? http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=72698&forumpage=0Jun 11 13:46
schestowitzI see StefanoJun 11 13:47
ushimitsudokinnJun 11 13:48
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schestowitzAdam Williamson  (not fedroa): Err…so Debian installs no packages by default? Just grub, initrd, and a kernel?Jun 11 13:48
schestowitz*now Fedora, was MandrivaJun 11 13:48
trmancoschestowitz, yeahJun 11 13:49
DaemonXPDebian is all kinds of stableJun 11 13:49
trmancobut I'm having a rough time upgrading my other siteJun 11 13:49
DaemonXPof course that's the ideaJun 11 13:49
DaemonXPbut it's kind of difficult to get anything but GNOMEJun 11 13:49
trmancoit won't appear for some reason (the upgrade button)Jun 11 13:49
DaemonXPat least from the installerJun 11 13:49
schestowitztrmanco: go to DashboardJun 11 13:50
schestowitzIt's not there in the popup(ish)Jun 11 13:50
trmancoit's not there yetJun 11 13:50
schestowitzAnd I reckon it might not play nice with pluginsJun 11 13:50
DaemonXPcome to think about it, I think Debian probably is the only thing that comes to mind if you ask me about any big distros that don't directly depend on a big company to surviveJun 11 13:50
DaemonXPso yeah, I wish it good luckJun 11 13:51
schestowitzI'll wait until tessier is around before making a move. I don't have DB admin tools that are graphicalJun 11 13:51
trmancohehJun 11 13:51
DaemonXPThere needs to be a community distro that isn't steered by the particular business goals of one companyJun 11 13:51
DaemonXPand Debian fills that spotJun 11 13:51
trmancohttp://identi.ca/notice/5185697Jun 11 13:53
trmancothere you goJun 11 13:53
trmancono linux builds are optimizedJun 11 13:53
trmanconot even official buildsJun 11 13:54
DaemonXPof course they aren'tJun 11 13:54
DaemonXPcause they all have to try to just work on any number of hardware configurationsJun 11 13:54
DaemonXPso the distro just uses generic packagesJun 11 13:54
DaemonXPthere are some scripts that can scan your hardware and come up with a bas kernel .config file for you to work from that doesn't default to having anything you don't needJun 11 13:55
DaemonXPthose go quite a ways towards bringing down the bloatJun 11 13:55
DaemonXP*baseJun 11 13:55
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schestowitzTwitter is stagnating now, just like Digg did. http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-twitter-traffic-flat/Jun 11 13:56
schestowitzhttp://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-incubator-betaworks-invests-in-twitterfeed/Jun 11 13:56
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schestowitzAnother passing fad Twitter)Jun 11 13:57
DaemonXPbut a bigger problem is crapware, and it's mainly a Windows thingJun 11 13:57
DaemonXPWindows really isn't all that slow unless you aren't careful about the kinds of software you use or have running in the trayJun 11 13:57
schestowitzI guess that twitter "followers" will become as valuable as those 3,000+ 'friends' I have in Digg... many of whom leave the sitesJun 11 13:57
DaemonXPLinux distros haven't historically had the bloatware problem, but between Firefox and Mono apps like BansheeJun 11 13:58
DaemonXPit's getting to be more of an issueJun 11 13:58
DaemonXPespecially on lower end systemsJun 11 13:58
schestowitzYesJun 11 13:58
schestowitzBut Firefox promises improvementJun 11 13:58
schestowitzand mono is nonoJun 11 13:58
schestowitzRunning Java programs on my 32MB (or RAM) laptop was painfulJun 11 13:59
DaemonXPmeh, Firefox has been "promising" improvement since 5 years agoJun 11 13:59
DaemonXPand only keeps getting MORE demandingJun 11 13:59
DaemonXPI don't believe them anymoreJun 11 13:59
DaemonXPtheir image size has doubled and in some cases tripled over where Firefox 1 was in 2004Jun 11 14:00
DaemonXPwhere Opera's has gone up a tad, but nothing like FirefoxJun 11 14:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Rocknerd: It's not downloading, it's games. Here's the numbers. http://is.gd/YQ5mJun 11 14:00
DaemonXPand Opera actually has features to show for itJun 11 14:00
DaemonXPif there's anything I can't stand it's when applications keep cutting features but demanding more resources to do lessJun 11 14:01
DaemonXPand that's where Firefox has been headingJun 11 14:01
trmancothe chrome build on linux look weirdJun 11 14:01
trmancochromium* looks*Jun 11 14:02
DaemonXPremove the GTK mask from FirefoxJun 11 14:02
DaemonXPand see what it looks like :)Jun 11 14:02
DaemonXPor you could try running it in KubuntuJun 11 14:02
DaemonXP:)Jun 11 14:02
DaemonXPthat's always shockingly uglyJun 11 14:02
trmancohttp://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=73422&p=1Jun 11 14:03
trmancoI'm talking about the window borderJun 11 14:04
trmancothe top oneJun 11 14:04
DaemonXPI bought an album from LaLaJun 11 14:05
DaemonXPand it turns out they are using Lame V 0 to encodeJun 11 14:06
DaemonXP:)Jun 11 14:06
DaemonXPso now we have legit music store using LAME MP3Jun 11 14:07
schestowitzbblJun 11 14:07
trmancoomgJun 11 14:15
trmancochrome is super duper fastJun 11 14:15
trmancoon start upJun 11 14:15
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_Hicham_from DaemonFC to DaemonXPJun 11 14:18
_Hicham_what a change!Jun 11 14:18
DaemonXPnyaaahJun 11 14:20
MinceRhe's been upgradedJun 11 14:20
MinceRstay tuned for DaemonVista and Daemon7, coming soonJun 11 14:20
*DaemonXP rolls out the It's Better With DaemonXP campaignJun 11 14:20
*DaemonXP is now known as Daemon7Jun 11 14:21
MinceRhm, he skipped a versionJun 11 14:21
MinceRapparently vista wasn't that great after all :>Jun 11 14:21
*Daemon7 is now known as DaemonXPJun 11 14:21
_Hicham_the best I think is DaemonCrazyJun 11 14:22
_Hicham_DaemonBigAssJun 11 14:22
MinceRDaemonCracy!Jun 11 14:22
DaemonXPnah, I grouped that nickJun 11 14:22
MinceRDaemonStrationJun 11 14:22
DaemonXPI have the nick on pre-orderJun 11 14:22
DaemonXP:PJun 11 14:22
_Hicham_DaemonEncoderJun 11 14:22
_Hicham_DaemonDecoderJun 11 14:23
_Hicham_DaemonTrollJun 11 14:23
_Hicham_those are all valid nicks for uJun 11 14:23
_Mutex_http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-311100.html - how is FOSS going to deal with being forced to stand by the quality and performance of their product ?Jun 11 14:23
_Hicham_and u always run in the backgroundJun 11 14:23
*DaemonXP puts WMV/WMA in a Matroska containerJun 11 14:23
*DaemonXP wonders if they'll taste the differenceJun 11 14:23
_Mutex_Seems the EC at least shars my view on software qualityJun 11 14:23
DaemonXPI tried to encode to WMA Pro to check it out and it just crashes WinampJun 11 14:24
DaemonXP:PJun 11 14:24
DaemonXPso I ended up using Windows Media EncoderJun 11 14:24
DaemonXPwhat's funny is that most devices that can play WMA won't play Pro or LosslessJun 11 14:25
DaemonXP DON'TTouch the shiny surface where dirt, oil and fingerprints can leave residue. Do not lick. The disc is not flavored.Jun 11 14:27
DaemonXPjesusJun 11 14:27
DaemonXPhttp://www.redbox.com/Help/Cleaning.aspxJun 11 14:27
DaemonXPyeah......Jun 11 14:27
_Hicham_Firefox 3.6 seems very promisingJun 11 14:28
*DaemonXP hires MinceR to lick off the fingerprints from someone's kids and dog hair and marijuana resin from his rental DVDsJun 11 14:28
*MinceR hires DaemonXP as his new sewage disposal facilityJun 11 14:29
trmancoChrome(v3.0.188.0) Scored:Jun 11 14:30
trmanco1574 PointsJun 11 14:30
DaemonXPhad that job already if you mean taking someone's emotional shitJun 11 14:30
DaemonXPtheir verbal defecationsJun 11 14:30
trmancolook at the difference, and it's not even close to done yetJun 11 14:30
DaemonXPBefore you hedge those bets you placed against me, be reticent of fortunes they foretell. Your verbal defecation I can't wash away despite myself. Your vanity, it seems, has served you wellJun 11 14:32
MinceRno, not emotionalJun 11 14:32
DaemonXP:PJun 11 14:32
_Hicham_trmanco : which test is that?Jun 11 14:32
trmancopeacekeeperJun 11 14:32
_Mutex_licking fingerprints from someone kids !!!! what kind of chat room is this LOLJun 11 14:33
trmancodoing sunspiderJun 11 14:33
trmancoTotal:                 1251.0ms +/- 3.7%Jun 11 14:34
trmancoHigh Netbook Return Rate? Windows Is the Problem: http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2009/06/high-netbook-return-rate-windo.htmlJun 11 14:56
_Hicham_schestowitz : firefox preview doesn't have the scrolling problemJun 11 15:23
_Hicham_but it has problems with flashJun 11 15:24
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mib_pfncj8so you advice not to use suse ?Jun 11 15:28
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*MinceR is researching whether to go with nvidia or ati in his new laptopJun 11 15:37
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_Hicham_MinceR : go ATIJun 11 15:57
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BalrogMinceR: laptop :(Jun 11 15:57
Balrogif you want power, there's only nvidiaJun 11 15:58
BalrogATI is more foss friendlyJun 11 15:58
_Hicham_my old ATI card is working as a charm on Fedora 11Jun 11 15:58
MinceRi want AIGLX (compiz) to work with multiple monitors (and enough xinerama support to make the window manager aware of the borders of the monitors); also i want games to workJun 11 15:58
MinceRif that's possible with a FLOSS driver, all the better, but i've heard they're not there yetJun 11 15:59
_Hicham_I played some games with ati open source driverJun 11 15:59
_Hicham_like Postal2Jun 11 15:59
MinceRdoes it have a performance on the level of the windows driver?Jun 11 16:00
_Hicham_yesJun 11 16:00
_Hicham_I played some windows games too through wineJun 11 16:00
_Hicham_MaxPayne was perfectJun 11 16:01
MinceRBalrog: please elaborateJun 11 16:01
_Hicham_always with OpenSource ati driverJun 11 16:01
MinceR_Hicham_: do you use aiglx/compositing with it?Jun 11 16:01
_Hicham_no aiglxJun 11 16:02
BalrogThe nvidia cards for laptops are on average more powerful than the ATI onesJun 11 16:02
_Hicham_direct renderingJun 11 16:02
_Hicham_compiz always enabledJun 11 16:02
Balrogit's similar with desktops; benchmarks show that nvidia is somewhat more powerful than ATI (best cards)Jun 11 16:02
MinceRBalrog: i'll look out for that thenJun 11 16:03
_Hicham_with proprietary drivers, yesJun 11 16:03
Balrogyes, exactlyJun 11 16:03
MinceR(i only need to match my current 7900 gs though)Jun 11 16:03
Balrogso it's a trade offJun 11 16:03
Balrogahh ... ATI should do, unless you want cudaJun 11 16:03
_Hicham_what is cuda?Jun 11 16:03
MinceRi don't need cuda yetJun 11 16:03
_Hicham_okJun 11 16:04
_Hicham_I played coldwar tooJun 11 16:04
_Hicham_penumbra overture and penumbra black plaguJun 11 16:04
_Hicham_*plagueJun 11 16:04
_Hicham_all with open source atiJun 11 16:04
_Hicham_KMS is also almost perfectJun 11 16:05
_Hicham_no problem until nowJun 11 16:05
Balrog_Hicham_: CUDA is the gpgpu system from nvidiaJun 11 16:05
BalrogI'm looking forward to the mainstream release of OpenCL thoughJun 11 16:05
_Hicham_I just googled about it Balrog, thanksJun 11 16:05
Balrogit will simplify things across the board, so you don't need to write nvidia or ati specific codeJun 11 16:06
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Texan Christians, solving the really important problems: http://is.gd/YVfDJun 11 16:10
_Mutex_HA,, remind me never to go there !Jun 11 16:12
MinceRold news is oldJun 11 16:13
_Mutex_Its like people not eating Apples because they dont like a certain computer companyJun 11 16:15
MinceR_Hicham_: can you run multiple x servers (on different virtual consoles) with opengl support?Jun 11 16:16
_Hicham_haven't tried thatJun 11 16:16
_Hicham_but KMS is working for meJun 11 16:16
_Mutex_I would say yes,Jun 11 16:16
MinceRi'd expect nobody but me to try such a thing :)Jun 11 16:16
_Hicham_with no problemJun 11 16:17
MinceRdoes the blur plugin of compiz work?Jun 11 16:17
MinceRit's nice to be able to collect information on the web, finding out which is out of date is the difficult part :)Jun 11 16:17
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MinceR_Hicham_: what card do you have?Jun 11 16:24
Balrog*I* have this nvidia geforce2 hereJun 11 16:25
Balrogat home I have a 8600M :/Jun 11 16:25
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DaemonXPwell, I'm officially freaked outJun 11 16:41
DaemonXPsomeone woke me up knocking on the door, then I get a call on my cell phone, but they don't leave a messageJun 11 16:42
DaemonXPso I google the number and can't find anything except that it's a contact number for a husband-wife missionary team from a local churchJun 11 16:43
DaemonXPbut the PDF is from 2004 and I can't find anything elseJun 11 16:43
neighborleeDaemonXP, people get such phone calls ALL the time..no drama no stress ;)Jun 11 16:44
neighborleeDaemonXP, and who was at your door, santa ? ;)Jun 11 16:44
DaemonXPWhy can't people leave me alone? O [ay my rent I'm an atheist, I try not to get entagled in anyone elses problemsJun 11 16:44
DaemonXPand I never double parkJun 11 16:44
DaemonXP*I payJun 11 16:45
DaemonXPyeah, but why do they have to call me?Jun 11 16:45
neighborleewhy notJun 11 16:45
neighborleeits their rightJun 11 16:45
schestowitzMinceR: ATIJun 11 16:45
DaemonXPI hate when people call meJun 11 16:45
neighborleeDaemonXP, ignore()Jun 11 16:45
schestowitzIt helps AMD and they at least try with source code nowJun 11 16:45
neighborleeDaemonXP, its what the rest of us do..ignore()Jun 11 16:45
DaemonXPand if they have to, they can leave a message if it's that damned importantJun 11 16:45
neighborleeand they never doJun 11 16:46
neighborleeso its easy to ignoreJun 11 16:46
MinceRschestowitz: sure, but how well does it work _now_ ?Jun 11 16:46
DaemonXPyou're right, if it was the landlord, he'd leave a snarling message chewing my ass outJun 11 16:46
DaemonXPso it can't be anything that badJun 11 16:46
schestowitzMinceR: if you need 3D, then not so great, I thinkJun 11 16:47
neighborleeDaemonXP, lol ;)Jun 11 16:47
*schestowitz just got back from table tennisJun 11 16:47
neighborleeDaemonXP, yeah not to worry ;)Jun 11 16:47
DaemonXPI want to be a landlord someday so I can chew ass regarding a two dollar spike in the electric bill or if they took a 11 minute showerJun 11 16:47
neighborlee:)Jun 11 16:47
DaemonXPand never the crack dealers, oh heavens noJun 11 16:48
DaemonXPthe ones that pay rent and don't blast musicJun 11 16:48
neighborleeI guess you missed your calling  ;0-Jun 11 16:48
MinceRschestowitz: i do need 3dJun 11 16:48
DaemonXPthat guy is bizarre, of course the last ones weren't a lot better, the landhags were why I movedJun 11 16:49
DaemonXPthe last ones were the ones that chewed me out over showering for too longJun 11 16:49
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DaemonXPI told them I'd like to see how long they would shower if they came home from work black and covered in fiberglassJun 11 16:50
DaemonXP(this was several years ago)Jun 11 16:50
DaemonXPthey must have struck a nerve with their other tenants, cause 3 of us decided to skip the Friday rent and move out on the same weekendJun 11 16:52
DaemonXPit was pretty funnyJun 11 16:52
DaemonXPnobody had planned it either, it just went down like thatJun 11 16:52
DaemonXPhey, it makes moving furniture easier thoughJun 11 16:52
DaemonXPso they were trying to squeeze all of us for another rent hike and ended up dealing with an empty building it took several months to rent outJun 11 16:54
DaemonXPand somewhere along this string of abusive landlords, I got the idea "Jesus fuck, I wish I could be a bastard like that!"Jun 11 16:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[astralknight] Firefox 3.6 Development Schedule : http://digg.com/d1tYJW?tJun 11 16:55
DaemonXPnow this landlord is in his 50's, very professional, suit, tie, divorced, two adult sons, and a picture of himself in leather on ManhuntJun 11 16:56
DaemonXPI'm wondering if a little blackmail may ever be in orderJun 11 16:56
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DaemonXPThe day something happens and I don't know about it, be afraid.Jun 11 16:58
DaemonXPTrust God, trust DaemonXP. Anyone else, shoot 'em.Jun 11 16:58
neighborleeDaemonXP, blackmail ,forget it..you shoudn't know about manhunt either LOLJun 11 16:59
DaemonXPyes, but I'm not trying to protect my reputationJun 11 16:59
DaemonXPnor am I the one with a ball gagJun 11 16:59
DaemonXP:)Jun 11 16:59
neighborleeDaemonXP, jk of course..but hey ;)Jun 11 16:59
neighborleeickJun 11 16:59
DaemonXPI know, it scared meJun 11 17:00
neighborleewhewJun 11 17:00
DaemonXPhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gag_(BDSM)Jun 11 17:01
*DaemonXP wonders if anyone realizes a potential employer might browse WikipediaJun 11 17:01
DaemonXPtaking a picture of yourself in a ball gag and posting in on the most trafficked site on the internet may not be a good ideaJun 11 17:02
neighborleeeekJun 11 17:02
_Mutex_EU is going to make programmers liable for their code, ie if your apache web site is hacked, and its determined the code was not correctly designed, and the writer of that code is neglegent, he's be liable for the damages !!!.Jun 11 17:03
_Mutex_Like every other engineering disiplineJun 11 17:03
DaemonXPoh niceJun 11 17:03
DaemonXPso that means when X takes a shit I can sue them?Jun 11 17:03
neighborlee_Mutex_, woah nellieJun 11 17:03
neighborlee_Mutex_, from a engineering perspective it makes sense..heh..but eek ;))Jun 11 17:04
DaemonXPAt $1 per crash I could be a millionaire from X aloneJun 11 17:04
DaemonXP:)Jun 11 17:04
neighborleehaJun 11 17:04
_Mutex_It means if you create code that does not do as specified, you are liable for the damages incurred.Jun 11 17:04
_Hicham_what is the meaning of DaemonFC?Jun 11 17:04
_Hicham_is it a football club?Jun 11 17:05
_Mutex_If you design a building and it falls down without reason, and the corrorner determines the design was the fault the engineer who designed it is liableJun 11 17:05
neighborlee_Hicham_, I doubt its football related , but hey ;0Jun 11 17:05
neighborleebeen wrong before...Jun 11 17:05
_Hicham_neighborlee : what is its meaning then?Jun 11 17:06
neighborleefedora core of courseJun 11 17:06
schestowitzMinceR: your friend is arguing with me...Jun 11 17:06
_Hicham_neighborlee : really?Jun 11 17:06
neighborleeim guessing, but sure.Jun 11 17:06
neighborlee:)Jun 11 17:06
schestowitzBecause I didn't like Apple fanboyismJun 11 17:06
schestowitzMAsay:> I mean, I write an entire post (several, actually) promoting the LinuxJun 11 17:06
schestowitz> > desktop and you turn it into a Mac glorification piece.  If you wouldJun 11 17:06
schestowitz> > turn off the anger machine long enough to actually read what I (andJun 11 17:06
schestowitz> > others) write, you might see it a bit differently.  Your "advocacy" isJun 11 17:06
schestowitz> > so blind and one-sided that it's not effective.  Try being a bit moreJun 11 17:06
schestowitz> > balanced.  Even remotely.  You might find more people heed you then.Jun 11 17:06
schestowitzMust be that Twit. Sorry, it was written in the heat of the moment.Jun 11 17:06
schestowitz> I mean, I write an entire post (several, actually) promoting the LinuxJun 11 17:06
schestowitz> > desktop and you turn it into a Mac glorification piece.  If you wouldJun 11 17:06
schestowitz> > turn off the anger machine long enough to actually read what I (andJun 11 17:06
schestowitz> > others) write, you might see it a bit differently.  Your "advocacy" isJun 11 17:06
schestowitz> > so blind and one-sided that it's not effective.  Try being a bit moreJun 11 17:06
schestowitz> > balanced.  Even remotely.  You might find more people heed you then.Jun 11 17:06
schestowitzMust be that Twit. Sorry, it was written in the heat of the moment.Jun 11 17:06
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schestowitz> They usually are.  I do the same.  But really, I'm not your enemy, andJun 11 17:07
schestowitz> > you seem determined to make me (and everyone else) such.  It's not theJun 11 17:07
schestowitz> > most effective way to go....Jun 11 17:07
schestowitzI link to you a lot with praise. Maybe you never notice it.Jun 11 17:07
_Hicham_where is that DaemonXP?Jun 11 17:07
_Hicham_where are u troll?Jun 11 17:07
schestowitz> Well, as humans, we rarely do notice the positive.  I'll try harder. Jun 11 17:07
schestowitz> > It's true I'm not very good at pointing out the positive.Jun 11 17:07
schestowitz80% of the time (roughly) that I cite you it's positive.Jun 11 17:07
schestowitzYou said:Jun 11 17:07
schestowitz> > Your "advocacy" is so blind and one-sided that it's not effective.Jun 11 17:07
schestowitzTry being a bit more balanced.  Even remotely.Jun 11 17:07
schestowitzIf we all said yes, yes, yes, where would the debate be? I agree thatJun 11 17:07
schestowitzthe word "idiocy" was very impolite, impulsive.Jun 11 17:07
schestowitzDisagreements are healthy.Jun 11 17:07
neighborlee_Hicham_, lolJun 11 17:07
neighborleehehJun 11 17:08
_Hicham_idiocy is impoliteJun 11 17:08
neighborleeI guess it depends on which side of argument your on LOLJun 11 17:08
_Mutex_im always on the RIGHT side :)Jun 11 17:08
mib_wwtus1But you don't like all disagreements.Jun 11 17:08
_Hicham__Mutex_ is entering the critical sectionJun 11 17:08
*DaemonXP needs to shave with a machete or somethingJun 11 17:09
DaemonXPthis beard grows like switchgrassJun 11 17:09
neighborleelolJun 11 17:09
DaemonXPI need to find a straight razorJun 11 17:11
_Mutex_ahh , just pluck them out !!Jun 11 17:11
DaemonXPI can destroy the blades on any disposable after one passJun 11 17:11
DaemonXPuhhhm, ouch?Jun 11 17:11
trmancowowJun 11 17:11
schestowitzMore Mac Malware http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25613/1151/Jun 11 17:14
trmancohehJun 11 17:15
trmancoso much for that multi process browser approach of chromeJun 11 17:15
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trmancoI can't play html embed video, the browser crashes and all goes down with itJun 11 17:15
_Mutex_if mac's have malware linux has to be nextJun 11 17:16
_Mutex_it is after all, basically the same thing.Jun 11 17:16
MinceRlolJun 11 17:17
MinceRcrApple only wished it wasJun 11 17:17
_Mutex_ofcourse BSD is not linux, but its Unix-like and so is LinuxJun 11 17:18
MinceRof course, given a stupid enough user, any computer can be infectedJun 11 17:18
MinceR_Mutex_: osx lacks lots of security features most modern unixes haveJun 11 17:18
schestowitzFlaws com from Quicktime and stuffJun 11 17:18
schestowitzSaf01r1Jun 11 17:19
_Hicham_DaemonFC : use kitchen knife to shaveJun 11 17:19
_Hicham_ah, ur DaemonXPJun 11 17:19
_Mutex_pluck em out with the steak tongsJun 11 17:19
trmanco[14525:14528:24477803739:FATAL:/build/buildd/chromium-browser-3.0.188.0~svn20090610r18068/build-tree/src/media/audio/linux/alsa_output.cc(93)] Check failed: channels_ == 2. Only 2-channel audio is supported right now.Jun 11 17:20
trmancoTrace/breakpoint trapJun 11 17:20
trmancohehJun 11 17:20
trmancobetter file a bugJun 11 17:20
MinceRuse a chainsaw :>Jun 11 17:20
schestowitzhttp://feedproxy.google.com/~r/stefanoforenza/~3/6uuKJe4TMUE/Jun 11 17:21
_Mutex_or an egg whispJun 11 17:21
trmancoworks in FFJun 11 17:21
*schestowitz uses a shaverJun 11 17:22
_Mutex_thats probably the best method :)Jun 11 17:22
schestowitzEgg whisp?Jun 11 17:23
schestowitzFor whiskers?Jun 11 17:23
schestowitzhttp://www.stefanoforenza.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/funny-pictures-zomg-run-cat-woman-screams.jpg Meow!Jun 11 17:24
_Mutex_I didnt say it wasnt going to be messy !!Jun 11 17:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] DW/LJ: After the rain. http://reddragdiva.dreamwidth.org/7151.html http://reddragdiva.livejournal.com/520753.htmlJun 11 17:25
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schestowitzCringely on the Intel buy: Atomic Warfare < http://www.cringely.com/2009/06/atomic-warfare/ >Jun 11 17:26
schestowitz"And with Netbooks retailing under $400, compared to Microsoft Intel makes hardly any profit at all.  So Microsoft has to die."Jun 11 17:27
_Mutex_Lots and lots and lots of small profit, is far better than a million times no profitJun 11 17:28
DaemonXPheh, of course Intel is throwing Microsoft overboard with cheap netbooksJun 11 17:28
DaemonXPthe margin on a netbook is so low and the prices are so competitive, that $50 makes a differenceJun 11 17:28
_Mutex_people never buy on price alone.Jun 11 17:29
DaemonXPof course they doJun 11 17:29
_Mutex_if they did, everyone would use linux rightJun 11 17:30
DaemonXPWalmart is proof of thatJun 11 17:30
_Mutex_If you buy a house you dont necessarly buy the cheapest house you can find in a bad area, you buy the best you can afford, that is just human nature.Jun 11 17:31
DaemonXPwell, $50-70 thorwn into the price of an Alienware rig is not really going to change your mind, as a matter of fact, those people will want WindowsJun 11 17:31
DaemonXPbecause Linux can't run their gamesJun 11 17:31
_Mutex_Something you have to understand if you are to become successful.Jun 11 17:31
DaemonXPbut when you talk about the mundane crap that any OS can do on a system with underpowered hardwareJun 11 17:31
_Mutex_DaemonXp you really think its that simple ?Jun 11 17:31
DaemonXPwell, Windows doesn't scale to thatJun 11 17:31
DaemonXPsure I doJun 11 17:31
_Mutex_thats very nieveJun 11 17:32
DaemonXPTell a gamer what exactly, this isJun 11 17:32
DaemonXPhttp://img8.imageshack.us/img8/5688/screenshotxdx.pngJun 11 17:32
DaemonXPand why they should want to deal with itJun 11 17:32
_Mutex_most people DONT play games, but they use software and hardware they PAID for,Jun 11 17:32
_Mutex_sure for a gamer its true, but the millions of offices and businesses in the world dont all sit around playing games on windows, basically a very small segment of people sometimes play gamesJun 11 17:33
_Mutex_Becuase the software does what they want it to do.Jun 11 17:33
_Mutex_its just that simpleJun 11 17:34
schestowitz"As the form of the scientific paper itself becomes more and more dynamic and individuals get recognized for their contributions regardless of the URL where that contribution happens, why not cite quality blog posts? Or quality comments on papers themselves?" http://scienceblogs.com/clock/2009/06/why_or_why_not_cite_blog_posts.phpJun 11 17:38
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schestowitz"All new computers are required to wear condoms...."  http://rconversation.blogs.com/rconversation/2009/06/all-new-computers-are-required-to-wear-condoms.htmlJun 11 17:40
DaemonXPWine is capable of playing Oblivion, but you have to install it in WindowsJun 11 17:40
DaemonXPand copy over the foldersJun 11 17:40
DaemonXPotherwise SecuROM will crash the installerJun 11 17:41
_Hicham_and crash u tooJun 11 17:42
DaemonXPit detects Wine as a debuggerJun 11 17:42
DaemonXPand crashes the installer to prevent an exploitJun 11 17:43
schestowitz Great land giveaway could be disaster for Amazon < http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17286-great-land-giveaway-could-be-disaster-for-amazon.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news >Jun 11 17:44
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_Mutex_I wonder if google is thinking that MS is pushing hard in the search market, because Google started to try to push into the OS market?Jun 11 17:49
schestowitzAOL Buys Two Local Startups http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-aol-buys-two-local-news-startups/Jun 11 17:49
schestowitzGoogle can serve Apps for AndroidJun 11 17:49
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schestowitzIt also has cash and engineersJun 11 17:50
schestowitzSo like eBay, they must do SOMETHINGJun 11 17:50
schestowitzNot just maintenanceJun 11 17:50
schestowitzDevelopment tooJun 11 17:50
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_Hicham_DaemonXPJun 11 17:50
_Hicham_DaemonAssJun 11 17:50
_Mutex_yes, thats right, entering into other and new markets is what business do.Jun 11 17:50
schestowitzhttp://www.avaaz.org/en/peru_stop_violence/?cl=250319390&v=3461Jun 11 17:51
_Mutex_Roy is your middle initial M ?? by any chance LOLJun 11 17:52
MinceR:)Jun 11 17:52
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neighborleeschestowitz, oh btw..is this code your using on your website something unique..or abundant throughout the internet ? ;)Jun 11 17:56
neighborleeschestowitz, afa relates to firefox beta having nasty issuesJun 11 17:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[astralknight] Sony building an Android Linux Walkman: http://digg.com/d1tYf6?tJun 11 18:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] World of Warcraft in Fedora 11: http://is.gd/YZAjJun 11 18:00
_Mutex_INcluding all the addons ?Jun 11 18:01
schestowitz_Mutex_: no, SJun 11 18:02
schestowitzNot MathewJun 11 18:02
DaemonXPfuck it, I'm downloading the cracked versionJun 11 18:02
DaemonXPI bought the game, they are interfering with my use of itJun 11 18:02
_Mutex_at the higher levels WoW in unplayable without the addons, so that kinda puts a kibosh on it.Jun 11 18:03
_Mutex_WoW ?Jun 11 18:03
DaemonXPnoJun 11 18:04
_Mutex_Cool game, havent played it in monthsJun 11 18:04
schestowitzHm.. moody just linked to this: http://www.indiana.edu/~iascp/iasc%202011.pdfJun 11 18:04
DaemonXPIU?Jun 11 18:04
schestowitzNa.Jun 11 18:04
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*hicham is now known as _Hicham_Jun 11 18:04
schestowitzUOIJun 11 18:04
DaemonXPthat's Indiana University's websiteJun 11 18:04
schestowitzI know.Jun 11 18:05
schestowitzThey made some headline re FOSSJun 11 18:05
schestowitzIn the past 6 monthsJun 11 18:05
DaemonXPthey mirror a lot of itJun 11 18:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[astralknight] Microsoft Money crapware canceled: http://digg.com/d1tYhL?tJun 11 18:05
_Hicham_DaemonFC : did u finish college?Jun 11 18:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Met police: six officers accused of torturing drug suspects < http://ping.fm/gVHdc > keyword *suspects*Jun 11 18:05
DaemonXPMicrosoft Money is a jokeJun 11 18:05
schestowitzhttp://apcmag.com/dell-axes-its-mini-12-netbook.htmJun 11 18:06
DaemonXPthey throw the Standard Edition in with new PCs usuallyJun 11 18:06
_Mutex_Forget about MS money, no one uses it anywayJun 11 18:06
_Hicham_DaemonXP uses MS moneyJun 11 18:06
_Mutex_so, sowhat if its crapJun 11 18:06
_Hicham_to pay his internet connectionJun 11 18:06
_Mutex_DaemonXP << pays MS moneyJun 11 18:07
_Hicham_he used to be a drifterJun 11 18:07
_Hicham_until MS took care of himJun 11 18:07
DaemonXPWho said that?Jun 11 18:07
_Hicham_and gave him a home, and a computerJun 11 18:07
_Hicham_equipped with the latest OSJun 11 18:07
_Hicham_aka VistaJun 11 18:07
_Mutex_ofcourse if you pay taxes, or have a bank account you all pay MS moneyJun 11 18:08
_Hicham_but as he is ingrateful, he turned his ass to themJun 11 18:08
_Hicham_and started playing with LinuxJun 11 18:08
_Hicham_but he was never satisfiedJun 11 18:08
schestowitzhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/5486318/Digital-Britain-One-week-to-save-the-creative-industries.html Digital Britain: One week to save the creative industriesJun 11 18:08
schestowitz<_Hicham_> DaemonXP uses MS moneyJun 11 18:09
schestowitzthere are other ways to read that :-)Jun 11 18:09
DaemonXPactually my bank does this nifty thingJun 11 18:09
DaemonXPthey balance my account in real timeJun 11 18:09
DaemonXPon teh internetzJun 11 18:09
DaemonXP:PJun 11 18:09
_Hicham_his bank, aka MS bankJun 11 18:09
schestowitzHe hasn't posted an obligatory promotional vista shot yet (today)Jun 11 18:09
_Hicham_he always doesJun 11 18:10
_Hicham_MS changed their strategyJun 11 18:10
_Hicham_by employing advanced trollsJun 11 18:10
_Mutex_ive had a bit of a play with MS money, i found it simple to use, (I find most software simple to use though), but it did keep its balance accurage with my real but unlinked accountJun 11 18:11
_Mutex_Ive been waiting for my MS paycheque for years :(Jun 11 18:11
schestowitzGreen Dam filtering software scorned by many Chinese http://rconversation.blogs.com/rconversation/2009/06/green-dam-filtering-software-scorned-by-many-chinese.htmlJun 11 18:12
_Mutex_MS spend all their money on paid adds on the Linux Today web site !!Jun 11 18:12
_Mutex_always found that funny !!Jun 11 18:12
schestowitz_Hicham_: at least we have no noise from that gutter site todayJun 11 18:12
_Hicham_schestowitz : which site?Jun 11 18:13
schestowitzYeah, well... and later they brag about revenueJun 11 18:13
_Mutex_linsuxJun 11 18:13
schestowitzHigh expenses for them with all he liesJun 11 18:13
schestowitz_Mutex_: yesJun 11 18:13
schestowitzWelsh learner denied entry to UK < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_east/8091191.stm >Jun 11 18:14
_Mutex_I tried that web site, its very poorly layed out,Jun 11 18:14
_Mutex_then again, i find BN a bit like that as well, sometimesJun 11 18:15
_Mutex_so no biggie i guessJun 11 18:15
schestowitzhttp://www.sfnblog.com/launches_closures/2009/06/chinese_language_newspaper_launched_in_b.phpJun 11 18:17
schestowitz_Hicham_: the posts?Jun 11 18:17
schestowitz*_Mutex_: Jun 11 18:17
schestowitz China dominates NSA-backed coding contest  < http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/060909-china-dominates-nsa-backed-coding.html?fsrc=netflash-rss >Jun 11 18:18
_Mutex_its jsut a bit busy, but thats due to the large amount of information you have presentedJun 11 18:18
_Mutex_cant be easily helped with so much info.Jun 11 18:18
_Mutex_grok is the sameJun 11 18:18
schestowitzAfghan Ambassador Asks for a Lobbying Surge < http://www.prwatch.org/node/8407 >. The country is run by companies, using lobbysistsJun 11 18:21
schestowitz_Mutex_: yes, it's a messJun 11 18:21
schestowitzWe're awareJun 11 18:22
schestowitzWhich is why I need to spend a lot of time this summerJun 11 18:22
schestowitzWe'll make the Wiki (entry point) betterJun 11 18:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] FedEx Campaign Delivers Controversy < http://ping.fm/EMBRK >. Fight over bailouts... everyone wants to steal money from the public.Jun 11 18:25
*DaemonXP is back in Vista long enough to salvage some data that it booby trappedJun 11 18:25
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trmancoMicrosoft desperate for browser marketshare-> http://news.softpedia.com/news/IE8-Bests-Firefox-Chrome-in-Nutritious-Value-per-Download-113903.shtmlJun 11 18:32
schestowitzHehe. I read this one as Comanche at first glance: http://lwn.net/Articles/334649/Jun 11 18:32
Omar87Hey there, folks?Jun 11 18:33
schestowitztrmanco: it's from MARIUS OIAGA. Enough said.. http://news.softpedia.com/editors/browse/marius-oiagaJun 11 18:33
schestowitzOmar87: hey, Omar87 Jun 11 18:33
DaemonXPschestowitz: I posted that earlierJun 11 18:34
schestowitzHow goes it?Jun 11 18:34
DaemonXPthey're advertising it in Windows Live MessengerJun 11 18:34
schestowitzIE8 can't win even when installing it as part of the OSJun 11 18:34
trmancoyeah, I can seeJun 11 18:34
DaemonXPyou should download it then delete itJun 11 18:34
Omar87So, who exactly is that MrPsychopath moron again?Jun 11 18:35
DaemonXPschestowitz: That was the fastest download everJun 11 18:36
DaemonXPthey're hosting it on some high bandwidth serversJun 11 18:36
Omar87schestowitz: Did you read my comment on that stupid article by the Psychopath?Jun 11 18:36
schestowitzProprietary s/w can lead to suicide... http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/cloudy-circumstances-surround-lxlabs-suicideJun 11 18:36
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DaemonXP18.5 MB in 2.7 secondsJun 11 18:36
schestowitzOmar87: some people who harass usJun 11 18:36
schestowitzThey are mostly jealous because they are tinyJun 11 18:37
schestowitzAnd they hate LinuxJun 11 18:37
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DaemonXPI need to reburn this disc properly and then I can ditch VistaJun 11 18:39
_Mutex_how can you be jealous because you hate something ?Jun 11 18:40
DaemonXPthat's sneaky though, if you burn a bunch of discs with Vista's Explorer, you can have hundreds of corrupt discs and not knowJun 11 18:40
_Mutex_there's a vix for that DaemonXP,  DONT DO IT !!Jun 11 18:40
_Mutex_fix*Jun 11 18:40
DaemonXPwell, it's not like it asks your permission to record them in such a way that not even Windows XP can read themJun 11 18:41
_Mutex_no, you ask it permission to do it, he's a clue, use something else !! its just that simple.Jun 11 18:42
_Mutex_"Doctor it hurts when I put my fingers HERE", Doc - then dont put your finger there !!. nextJun 11 18:42
_Mutex_im not trying to be sarcastic Deamon but you had this problem yesterday, did you just keep doing it ? or did you learn and do something different that you know,,, works !!!Jun 11 18:43
DaemonXPknow, I'm extremely pissed and trying to salvage multiple discs worth of information that I never knew was corruptJun 11 18:44
DaemonXPbecause obviously Vista can read it allJun 11 18:44
DaemonXP*noJun 11 18:44
DaemonXPgahJun 11 18:44
DaemonXPImgBurn seems to write proper discsJun 11 18:44
DaemonXPjust not Windows ExplorerJun 11 18:44
_Mutex_no nothing will read them, they are screwed, thow em away, download burn4free and you'll not have that problem again,Jun 11 18:45
_Mutex_and thats the last time ill mention it, if you persist in using MS burner, you deserve everything you get.Jun 11 18:45
DaemonXPI'm notJun 11 18:45
DaemonXPI'm still trying to save the stuff I burned earlierJun 11 18:45
DaemonXPI pretty much just figured that dropping them onto the disc drive in Explorer would be fast and work OKJun 11 18:46
DaemonXPI don't even normally use thatJun 11 18:46
_Mutex_the correct procedure is "BURN - Test - Delete (if test passes) if test fails, repeat and rinse and try different burning SWJun 11 18:47
DaemonXPVista doesn't let you testJun 11 18:47
DaemonXPit burns them as you drag and dropJun 11 18:47
_Mutex_easy dont drag and drop them thenJun 11 18:48
schestowitzObviously burning a CD is a novel taskJun 11 18:48
DaemonXPobviously Linux doesn't like those discsJun 11 18:48
schestowitzSo Mcirosoft might take a while to attain reliability thereJun 11 18:48
_Mutex_im sure it asks you first, "do you want to burn this CD",,,  just say NO :)Jun 11 18:48
DaemonXPand XP doesn't like *some* of themJun 11 18:48
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DaemonXPschestowitz: I'm sure it works fine on Vista and OS XJun 11 18:48
trmancohttp://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzMyMQJun 11 18:48
DaemonXPand that's really all they give a flying fuck aboutJun 11 18:48
_Mutex_Its a non-issue, I had the same problem, I fixed it in 2 minutes, I never had teh problem again.Jun 11 18:49
_Goblinhi allJun 11 18:49
_Mutex_So you can whine all day about Windows burner, or you can take 2 minutes and fix your problem. its just that simpleJun 11 18:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Just got back from Bournemouth beach...my Twitter has taken a very different direction over the last few days!Jun 11 18:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Native Multi-Touch Support On Linux: http://is.gd/Z1aKJun 11 18:50
DaemonXPit's not two minutesJun 11 18:50
DaemonXPI have to dump everything to the hard disk and then re-burn it all with ImgBurnJun 11 18:51
schestowitzBuy you know, trmanco , MS and Apple claim they invented (invested in advertising) itJun 11 18:51
_Mutex_it wont take very long to download andinstall burn4free honestJun 11 18:51
DaemonXPthat's going to take a whileJun 11 18:51
_Mutex_http://www.burn4free.com/download-dvd-copy-software.htmJun 11 18:52
DaemonXPburn4free is trialwareJun 11 18:52
*DaemonXP does not use trialwareJun 11 18:52
_Mutex_it does not expireJun 11 18:52
_Mutex_ive had mine for yearsJun 11 18:52
DaemonXPand there's spam snd spyware all over that pageJun 11 18:53
DaemonXPso you knowJun 11 18:53
DaemonXPyeah, not going to install thatJun 11 18:53
_Mutex_its ok by me, I dont care, do what you like, you want to destroy cd's all day, GO FOR IT,Jun 11 18:53
DaemonXPI know ImgBurn worksJun 11 18:53
_Mutex_but if you want to actually sort out the problem, and not just complain about MS then you can do that tooJun 11 18:53
DaemonXPhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ImgBurnJun 11 18:54
DaemonXPit works in Wine tooJun 11 18:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @trmanco Native Multi-Touch Support On Linux: http://is.gd/Z1aKJun 11 18:55
DaemonXPit says UDF 1.02Jun 11 18:56
_Mutex_I was wondering how long that would take, after MS did it :)Jun 11 18:56
DaemonXPif Linux can't figure that out, there's something wrong with LinuxJun 11 18:56
DaemonXPRevision 1.02 (August 30, 1996). This format is used by DVD-Video discs.Jun 11 18:57
DaemonXPI'd say if Linux can't figure that out, it's majorly fucked upJun 11 18:57
_Mutex_you said the burn4free had lots of popups, ?? im on it i have noneJun 11 18:57
DaemonXPtheir website doesJun 11 18:58
DaemonXPdear god that was horridJun 11 18:58
_Mutex_ive got it open now, its clean for me !!!Jun 11 18:58
DaemonXPit's not pop ups, they're using CSS elements and hovering them aroundJun 11 18:58
DaemonXPjust a damned nuisance is allJun 11 18:59
_Mutex_not even a warning bar saying its blocked pop-ups, you must be wide open !!!Jun 11 18:59
DaemonXPclosing the page fixes the problem ;)Jun 11 18:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Did anyone notice that Microsoft uses sentimental blackmail to promote IE8? Shades of RED.Jun 11 19:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The ODF Foundation has been using BNET to flog their stuff recently.. http://ping.fm/XokPN (Is There Life After Office?)Jun 11 19:00
_Mutex_no i did not notice any IE8 promotionsJun 11 19:01
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JohnslaxHiJun 11 19:04
_Mutex_ahoyhoyJun 11 19:05
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mib_7gom3kholy moly. what's up with reddit lately?Jun 11 19:10
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mib_7gom3kokay not just _lately_Jun 11 19:11
mib_7gom3kbut these past couple of weeks have been pretty ridiculousJun 11 19:12
JohnslaxWhat do mean?Jun 11 19:12
JohnslaxI missed a you :(Jun 11 19:12
mib_7gom3kall the mono stuffJun 11 19:13
mib_7gom3kit's just getting pretty slimy.Jun 11 19:13
_Mutex_Ive heard GPL'd code called alot of things, but pretty slimy is a first :)Jun 11 19:14
balzacMono is like "the Flood" in HaloJun 11 19:14
balzaca contagious, mutated scourgeJun 11 19:15
MinceRmoral of DaemonXP's story: he should have used k3b.Jun 11 19:15
mib_7gom3ki'm not talking about the code being slimy (although it may be). i mean the exchange of blows in the threadsJun 11 19:15
mib_7gom3khahJun 11 19:15
balzacMicrosoft is like the CovenantJun 11 19:15
balzacand GNU is like earth and it's warriorsJun 11 19:15
balzacAnd... I'm Master Chief!Jun 11 19:16
*DaemonXP (n=none@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellJun 11 19:16
JohnslaxWouldn't RMS be Master Chief?Jun 11 19:16
balzacI suppose so.Jun 11 19:16
balzacOr maybe he's the top generalJun 11 19:17
JohnslaxI bet that's what he looks like understand the suit anyway.Jun 11 19:17
balzacor top commanderJun 11 19:17
Johnslaxunder*Jun 11 19:17
JohnslaxDamn, I can't write at all todayJun 11 19:17
balzacBill Gates is the Prophet of the CovenantJun 11 19:17
balzacSteve Ballmer is obviously a bruteJun 11 19:17
DaemonXPit looks like Linux and XP can't use UDF 2.0Jun 11 19:17
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DaemonXPOS X, Vista, and NetBSD canJun 11 19:18
DaemonXPwhich would explain why Vista can use the discs it burns but Linux can'tJun 11 19:18
DaemonXPLinux is not up to date with UDF supportJun 11 19:18
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonXP: OSX more or has a slightly altered FreeBSDJun 11 19:19
DaemonXPmost commercial DVD writing software uses UDF 1.5 or 1.02 to maintain compatibility with Linux and XPJun 11 19:19
DaemonXPFreeBSD doesn't support itJun 11 19:19
DaemonXPNetBSD doesJun 11 19:19
JohnslaxActually, it's more of the network stack and part of the userland wrapped around another kernelJun 11 19:19
DaemonXPthat's pretty sadJun 11 19:20
DaemonXPLinux is 3 versions behind the UDF standardJun 11 19:20
DaemonXPVista supports 2.0, 2.5, and 2.6Jun 11 19:20
JohnslaxLinux will be the first to support USB 3.0Jun 11 19:20
DaemonXPhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Disk_Format#Native_OS_supportJun 11 19:20
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonXP: well so long as ISO 9660 remains popular there is really no relevance for UDF yetJun 11 19:21
DaemonXPsure there isJun 11 19:21
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonXP: seriously there are more important file systems to support then keeping up to date with UDF such as ZFS imoJun 11 19:21
DaemonXPseems like every OS but Linux and FreeBSD support a common packet writing methodJun 11 19:21
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonXP: but why totally support a standard that is only supported by the full head on DRM bunch?Jun 11 19:22
DaemonXPcause UDF has nothing to do with DRM by itselfJun 11 19:23
balzacDRM is doo-dooJun 11 19:23
DaemonXPSecuROM and Starforce and Mackerel-Vision all work with your beloved ISO9660Jun 11 19:24
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JohnslaxI love DRM.Jun 11 19:24
DaemonXP;)Jun 11 19:24
_Mutex_DRM = doo doo ridden machine ?Jun 11 19:24
DaemonXPthat just sucksJun 11 19:24
DaemonXPLinux is stuck in 1997Jun 11 19:25
DaemonXPwhen it comes to disc authoringJun 11 19:25
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Carl_Rover2k12DaemonXP: but that is only if you opt for their standard, UDF can create a "revision" to which such "features" are built inJun 11 19:26
DaemonXPsee, that's what I don't getJun 11 19:26
DaemonXPpeople blame Microsoft for not conforming to accepted standardsJun 11 19:26
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonXP: people can still boot up most OSs live from an ISO, so I don't see what the fuss is about rushing to update it, unless they really want the inclusion of something elseJun 11 19:26
DaemonXPbut when Linux arbitrarily refuses to support somethingJun 11 19:27
DaemonXPit's all OK suddenlyJun 11 19:27
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonXP: but who exactly "accepts" every revision of UDF?Jun 11 19:27
DaemonXPbecause LINUX did itJun 11 19:27
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonXP: it doesn't even work with every set-top DVD player as of now for crying out loudJun 11 19:27
DaemonXPDVD is frozen at 1.02Jun 11 19:28
DaemonXPjust so you knowJun 11 19:28
DaemonXPwhich was standardized in 1996Jun 11 19:28
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonXP: if thats the case what compelling features do the latest v1.05 of UDF offer users?Jun 11 19:28
DaemonXPthe MP3 decoding standard was frozen in 1991, I don't see that putting a huge crimp on how useful it isJun 11 19:28
DaemonXPbut obviously there's improvements to be made else there wouldn't be Vorbis or MP4Jun 11 19:29
DaemonXPshould I start with what Linux doesn't support per Wikipedia? :)Jun 11 19:29
schestowitzJohnslax: Novell is on RedditJun 11 19:30
schestowitzDid you see the post  where I exposed them?Jun 11 19:30
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonXP: btw I am looking at a chart provided by Wikipedia which states every Linux kernel beyond the standardized v2.4 works with the latest version of UDF except for those that have VATJun 11 19:30
Johnslaxschestowitz: No, I didn't.Jun 11 19:30
Carl_Rover2k12http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Disk_Format#Native_OS_supportJun 11 19:30
_Mutex_most standards are frozen, thats what a standard is, yes they change, but usually by the creation of a new standard, MP3 is a standard, MP4 is another standard RS-232 is a standard, RS-485 is another standard.Jun 11 19:30
DaemonXPright, which means it not only has incomplete support for 2.0 and 2.5, but you have to have 2.6.26 to get that muchJun 11 19:31
DaemonXPwhich some distros won't meet that requirement for yearsJun 11 19:31
_Mutex_Historically, trying to enforce unnatural standards on people generally fails.Jun 11 19:31
schestowitzJohnslax: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/27/reddit-novell-employees/Jun 11 19:32
DaemonXPLooks like Sansa Clip supports Vorbis, but it's still a bad callJun 11 19:33
DaemonXPthey're more than twice the cost of the MP3 playing View they're trying to kill offJun 11 19:33
DaemonXPwith same amount of storage spaceJun 11 19:33
JohnslaxToo bad Vorbis is dyingJun 11 19:33
DaemonXPyou can pick up an 8 gig View for $50Jun 11 19:33
DaemonXPthe Clip 8 gig is $120Jun 11 19:33
DaemonXPabout the only tangible improvement is a Vorbis codecJun 11 19:34
DaemonXPfrom what I can seeJun 11 19:34
*Python1320 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Jun 11 19:36
JohnslaxHas anyone tried the CLANG / LLVM compiler yet?Jun 11 19:36
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JohnslaxFreeBSD is moving to it, because they're pissed about GCC going GPL3Jun 11 19:37
DaemonXPFreeBSD is a good systemJun 11 19:40
DaemonXPand no, they never have liked the GPL, but it has been tolerable until nowJun 11 19:40
DaemonXPI pretty much agree with themJun 11 19:40
MinceR*bsd seems to be tolerated by the m$ religionJun 11 19:41
mib_1rfmgfNot surprising. Look at their license. You can't really get more free than that.Jun 11 19:41
JohnslaxThey won't use newer versions of GCC for the compiling the base system I believe, they use GPL2 version at this pointJun 11 19:41
DaemonXPit's not like GCC has been the best compiler anywayJun 11 19:41
JohnslaxIt's a pile of shitJun 11 19:41
DaemonXPso it's not like their ditching the best there's ever beenJun 11 19:41
MinceRthey're ditching the only one there's ever been :>Jun 11 19:41
MinceRnow it isn't the only one, of courseJun 11 19:41
DaemonXPbullshitJun 11 19:41
DaemonXPI download and use the Intel compilerJun 11 19:42
DaemonXPthat thing is greased lightning compared to the GCC turtleJun 11 19:42
MinceRso tell me how well it works on non-intel cpu-s, c++ and less common languagesJun 11 19:42
MinceRand how free is itJun 11 19:42
DaemonXPworks fineJun 11 19:42
DaemonXPI've used the Intel compiler on AMD systems tooJun 11 19:42
DaemonXPit can optimize for Intel, Generic, or AMD64Jun 11 19:42
MinceRwhat about ARM and other RISC architectures?Jun 11 19:43
DaemonXPdespite the nameJun 11 19:43
DaemonXPdunno, never used thoseJun 11 19:43
DaemonXPprobably never willJun 11 19:43
MinceRyet you eagerly shout "bullshit"Jun 11 19:43
MinceRi rest my case.Jun 11 19:43
DaemonXPI'm just saying for real PCs, GCC is complete shitJun 11 19:43
DaemonXPbut you can use whatever you want for those ARM toysJun 11 19:44
mib_1rfmgfha!Jun 11 19:44
DaemonXPI'm not stopping you :)Jun 11 19:44
mib_1rfmgfgcc is complete shitJun 11 19:44
JohnslaxHeh. Saying that Intel's compiler sucks because it doesn't support anything other than the x86 arch is like saying Linux sucks because Windows has all the programs.Jun 11 19:44
mib_1rfmgflolJun 11 19:44
MinceRalso, when did intel's compiler appearJun 11 19:44
DaemonXPit does what I need it toJun 11 19:44
DaemonXPgo use whatever you likeJun 11 19:44
JohnslaxGCC SUPPORTS EVERYTHING!!!! SO IT'S THE BEST!Jun 11 19:44
MinceRJohnslax: congratulations, you've just failed reading comprehensionJun 11 19:44
MinceRmy point was that for many archs, gcc has been the only option for a long time.Jun 11 19:45
JohnslaxMinceR, yes, I'm quite good at thatJun 11 19:45
mib_1rfmgfJohnslax: WINDOWS SUPPORTS EVERYTHING!!!!   ---oh, I see what you're saying.Jun 11 19:45
MinceR(at least as long as the OS needs to be FLOSS, which it does in this case)Jun 11 19:45
DaemonXPwell, if you are in the one hojillionth of a percent that doesn't use x86(-64) then good for youJun 11 19:45
DaemonXPgo use whatever you can scroungeJun 11 19:45
MinceR(that's also the most likely reason freebsd used it)Jun 11 19:45
JohnslaxWho uses ARM linux currently?Jun 11 19:45
DaemonXPFreeBSD is more free software than Linux isJun 11 19:46
MinceRDaemonXP: well, if you are in the one hojillionth of a percent that doesn't use windows, then good for youJun 11 19:46
DaemonXPby virtue of less restrictive licenseJun 11 19:46
MinceRoh, waitJun 11 19:46
DaemonXPand one that's not politicalJun 11 19:46
mib_1rfmgfDaemonXP +1Jun 11 19:46
MinceRDaemonXP: spare us the *bsd gospel, pleaseJun 11 19:46
DaemonXPso I shouldn't quote the GPL Preamble?Jun 11 19:46
MinceRyou should shut upJun 11 19:46
DaemonXPgood, it makes me want to throw up a little in my mouth anywayJun 11 19:46
DaemonXP:PJun 11 19:46
JohnslaxWhy should he spare us bsd gospel?Jun 11 19:47
MinceRbecause it's boring bullshitJun 11 19:47
DaemonXPLinux will never be GPLv3Jun 11 19:47
MinceRand we've all heard it more than enoughJun 11 19:47
DaemonXPit's just not going to happenJun 11 19:47
DaemonXPdeal with itJun 11 19:47
mib_1rfmgfJohnslax: !Linux = badJun 11 19:47
DaemonXPyou don't own itJun 11 19:47
schestowitzvia mail: "I first read this in the French news that the HADOPI law was overturned on Constitutional grounds (namely, that it's up to the judiciary to determine guilt or innocence and, failing that, there is a presumption of innocence).  I found a link to the story in English: French anti-filesharing law overturned http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/jun/10/france-hadopi-law-filesharing "Jun 11 19:47
MinceRget a room you three trolls alreadyJun 11 19:47
JohnslaxFreeBSD is what you call truly free.Jun 11 19:48
JohnslaxThe GPL3 is fairly evil in it's own right imoJun 11 19:48
DaemonXPoff course there's Stallnix, errrrr, GnewsenseJun 11 19:48
DaemonXP:PJun 11 19:48
DaemonXPgo use thatJun 11 19:48
DaemonXP:)Jun 11 19:48
mib_1rfmgflolJun 11 19:48
MinceRhomework: figure out why *bsd got left behind in development.Jun 11 19:49
DaemonXPFreeBSD is thrivingJun 11 19:49
mib_1rfmgfMinceR: BSD left behing in development? Surely, you jest.Jun 11 19:49
DaemonXPdoing better than it ever has actuallyJun 11 19:49
JohnslaxOooo, dem's fightin wordsJun 11 19:49
DaemonXPand thanks to not having a horrible political license, they can snag ZFSJun 11 19:49
DaemonXPand a bazillion other thingsJun 11 19:50
MinceRmib_1rfmgf: sorry, didn't mean to insult your religion.Jun 11 19:50
mib_1rfmgfIt's not my religion. Unlike the FSF advocates, software != religion to meJun 11 19:50
JohnslaxIt's a religion because he feels that you're wrong?Jun 11 19:50
MinceRDaemonXP: if you want to see a horrible political license in the case of ZFS, look no further than CDDLJun 11 19:50
schestowitzHi, SirCane/Trojan/othersJun 11 19:50
schestowitzByeJun 11 19:50
MinceRDaemonXP: guess why it was chosen.Jun 11 19:50
*schestowitz sets ban on *!i=18d36f1d@*.com/x-73a951c5d838b86fJun 11 19:50
*schestowitz has kicked mib_1rfmgf from #boycottnovell (schestowitz)Jun 11 19:50
DaemonXPbecause it's the Mozilla LicenseJun 11 19:50
DaemonXPrenamedJun 11 19:50
schestowitzIt's him againJun 11 19:50
DaemonXPquit using MozillaJun 11 19:50
schestowitzUsing MIB to get past the banJun 11 19:50
MinceRDaemonXP: that's not a reasonJun 11 19:50
schestowitzSame IPJun 11 19:51
DaemonXPno seriously, compare themJun 11 19:51
MinceRDaemonXP: it's because sun is scared of linux to death.Jun 11 19:51
DaemonXPif you feel that strongly against Solaris, then quit using FirefoxJun 11 19:51
MinceRDaemonXP: so they chose a license specifically so it won't be compatible with linux.Jun 11 19:51
MinceRDaemonXP: that isn't linux's fault.Jun 11 19:51
DaemonXPnoJun 11 19:51
schestowitzNow he'll rally his fellow trolls to come hereJun 11 19:51
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DaemonXPCDDL is only incompatible because Stallman says soJun 11 19:51
MinceRDaemonXP: also, CDDL is copyleft -- so if you have religious objections to GPL, you should have the same objections to CDDLJun 11 19:51
MinceRDaemonXP: yet you don't, because you're full of shit.Jun 11 19:52
OneStepNot sure why I just got kickedJun 11 19:52
schestowitzYou know wellJun 11 19:52
DaemonXPCDDL doesn't have the virus clauseJun 11 19:52
DaemonXPlike GPLJun 11 19:52
DaemonXPso it's suitable for FreeBSDJun 11 19:52
OneStepBecause I said something good about FreeBSD?Jun 11 19:52
schestowitzYou're the Linxx dude who was banned beforeJun 11 19:52
MinceRschestowitz: OneStep is the same as mib_1rfmgf, try banning by username (*!?=18d36f1d@*)Jun 11 19:52
OneStepLinxx?Jun 11 19:52
schestowitzNo, because you're attacking our siteJun 11 19:52
schestowitzAnd then nyshift to escape the banJun 11 19:52
OneStepI'm not attacking shitJun 11 19:52
EDavidBurgschestowitz: banning mibbit generally isn't very effective... it either bans someone who really did want to get here, or it's just a matter of going to mibbit again and coming from a different serverJun 11 19:53
OneStepTrust me when I say that I dont have the knowledge to attack any sitesJun 11 19:53
*schestowitz sets ban on *!i=18d36f1d@*.com/x-7f3374b322662364Jun 11 19:53
*schestowitz has kicked OneStep from #boycottnovell (schestowitz)Jun 11 19:53
DaemonXPMinceR: All Stamman would have to do is wave his handJun 11 19:53
DaemonXPand ZFS could be GPL compatibleJun 11 19:53
DaemonXPand in LinuxJun 11 19:53
schestowitzEDavidBurg: agreed. I knowJun 11 19:53
JohnslaxWhy should ZFS be in linux?Jun 11 19:53
DaemonXPthat's what is so bad about forming a cult around RMSJun 11 19:54
DaemonXPyou start believing in him like he's the MessiahJun 11 19:54
schestowitzI didn't ban 'Sean' based on his affiliation, but based on behaviourJun 11 19:54
JohnslaxI never understood why Linux users have always bitched and moaned about it not being GPL so Linux could use (steal) itJun 11 19:54
schestowitzAnd other people wanted him out too. He promotes modbombing against us and endorses slanderJun 11 19:54
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Carl_Rover2k12Johnslax: because it would make it a lot more compelling when it comes to being the right OS for database and servers.Jun 11 19:54
DaemonXPGPL has set Linux back nearly as much as it has helped itJun 11 19:54
schestowitzHahaJun 11 19:54
schestowitzTroll.Jun 11 19:54
schestowitzOppositeJun 11 19:54
MinceRDaemonXP: that's what is so bad about forming a cult about m$ -- you believe such bullshit without critique.Jun 11 19:55
schestowitzI guess that's why GPL is the most popular licenceJun 11 19:55
schestowitz<ViperChief> "schestowitz No, because you're attacking our site" -- How about you show me some proof before accusing me of anything. I don't attack sites. Not only do I not know how, but I'm not that stupid.Jun 11 19:55
DaemonXPbecause people are sheepJun 11 19:55
DaemonXPGPL is horribleJun 11 19:55
MinceRDaemonXP: so, the answer to an earlier question was: *bsd is left behind because developers don't have to contribute their improvements, so they didn'tJun 11 19:55
DaemonXPif anyone actually understood it, they'd ditch itJun 11 19:55
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MinceRDaemonXP: if _you_ understood it instead of eating ballmer's bullshit, you wouldn't spread such nonsenseJun 11 19:56
DaemonXPFreeBSD is far from deadJun 11 19:56
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonXP: if GPL is so horrible more open source developers would abandon it for MIT, Berkley or even CDDLJun 11 19:56
DaemonXPthey regularly make improvements and new releasesJun 11 19:56
MinceRsure it isn't deadJun 11 19:56
JohnslaxCheck out the new features for 8: http://ivoras.sharanet.org/freebsd/freebsd8.htmlJun 11 19:56
MinceRit's just left behindJun 11 19:56
DaemonXPand FSF uses BSD license for lots of thingsJun 11 19:56
DaemonXPincluding Ogg VorbisJun 11 19:56
JohnslaxMinceR: why's that?Jun 11 19:56
MinceRand only a small cult of frustrated fanboys cares about itJun 11 19:56
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonXP: its pretty simple all open source licensing are applied to software distribution by CHOICE.Jun 11 19:57
DaemonXPbecause GPL isn't appropriate for itJun 11 19:57
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MinceRDaemonXP: not all sw needs the same licensing terms.Jun 11 19:57
_Hicham_DaemonCrapJun 11 19:57
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_Hicham_DaemonShitJun 11 19:57
DaemonXPPeople slap the GPL on their stuff to look big and important and part of the groupJun 11 19:57
DaemonXPor cause the FSF has lawyersJun 11 19:57
DaemonXPthere's no good reason to use itJun 11 19:57
_Hicham_DaemonFC/XP/Vista/Shit is a great lawyerJun 11 19:58
DaemonXPyou're just playing your work to the FSF's tuneJun 11 19:58
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonXP: no they slap it on to protect their content from SOBs that would take the code without licensing consideration and put it on a for profit product or serviceJun 11 19:58
DaemonXPso?Jun 11 19:58
DaemonXPIf I write a program and BSD license itJun 11 19:58
DaemonXPyou have no right to tell me not toJun 11 19:59
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonXP: its a legal tool which developers of the content can use to sue others if they take their content without permission or appropriate royalties.Jun 11 19:59
DaemonXPI think people are mad cause FreeBSD can flourish without as many dedicated developersJun 11 19:59
_Hicham_plus he is a good devJun 11 19:59
DaemonXPcause Linux has to duplicate a lot to remain incompatibleJun 11 19:59
MinceRDaemonXP: people use GPL because they don't want to see their project embedded into some m$ or crApple crapJun 11 19:59
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonXP: its standardized, simple and can apply to many different kinds of software. Software Developers need not be legal professionals so they utilize instead of going through the pains of writing their ownJun 11 19:59
MinceRDaemonXP: freebsd isn't flourishingJun 11 20:00
DaemonXPyes it isJun 11 20:00
JohnslaxAgain, MinceR, why is that?Jun 11 20:00
MinceRJohnslax: you'll have to be more specific than that.Jun 11 20:00
JohnslaxMaybe you should elaborate on your comments a little more.Jun 11 20:00
Carl_Rover2k12MinceR: sorry but I have to agree that FreeBSD is flourishing, for different reasons then Linux is thoughJun 11 20:00
DaemonXPwhen they stop making regular releases with tangible improvements, I'll agreeJun 11 20:00
DaemonXPbut that's in MinceR-worldJun 11 20:00
DaemonXP:)Jun 11 20:00
MinceRi guess i'll direct my web browser at DaemonXP-world and download the newest freebsd release then.Jun 11 20:01
MinceRand see if they've gotten ahead of the seventies alreadyJun 11 20:01
Carl_Rover2k12DaemonXP: fact of the matter is though developers use the GPL to protect and successfully distribute content for academic purposes without worry about it being taken and patentedJun 11 20:01
MinceRditched that useless rc system and suchJun 11 20:01
DaemonXP8.0 emulates Linux system callsJun 11 20:01
MinceRwow, that makes it the second comingJun 11 20:01
DaemonXPso you can ditch Linux and not really have to give it another thoughtJun 11 20:01
DaemonXP*Linux 2.6 ratherJun 11 20:01
MinceRlook, i can emulate three linux system calls!Jun 11 20:01
DaemonXPnoJun 11 20:02
DaemonXPLinux has a lot of it's own crapJun 11 20:02
DaemonXPatop POSIXJun 11 20:02
JohnslaxFreeBSD is very heavily developed.Jun 11 20:02
DaemonXPit has moved more towards POSIX compliance than it used toJun 11 20:02
Carl_Rover2k12I seriously don't get all this Linux vs BSD hateJun 11 20:02
DaemonXPbut just 2 years ago, Linux used its own threading library tooJun 11 20:02
Carl_Rover2k12both are developed in the same way but are popular for different reasonsJun 11 20:02
MinceRCarl_Rover2k12: it's perpetuated by the frustrated *bsd fanboysJun 11 20:02
_Mutex_you gotta hate someone right :)Jun 11 20:03
JohnslaxIt's used by many large companies and it maintains its spot as one of the most reliable OSes out there.Jun 11 20:03
MinceRCarl_Rover2k12: and the ballmer cultists who believe anything under GPL must be the spawn of hell.Jun 11 20:03
DaemonXPso a lot of Linux programs are not valid POSIXJun 11 20:03
Carl_Rover2k12MinceR: who is a BSD fanboy?Jun 11 20:03
MinceRCarl_Rover2k12: i've met several of themJun 11 20:03
DaemonXPor are only distributed in binary form for LinuxJun 11 20:03
MinceRmost of them were obnoxious assholes.Jun 11 20:03
DaemonXPand can't be portedJun 11 20:03
DaemonXPthat's what the Linuxulator is forJun 11 20:03
MinceRDaemonXP: nobody said it's going to be posix-only.Jun 11 20:03
_Mutex_well i know i am :)Jun 11 20:03
MinceRDaemonXP: also, posix leaves several things unspecifiedJun 11 20:03
DaemonXPright, Linux has to break standardsJun 11 20:03
DaemonXPlike Microsoft maybe?Jun 11 20:03
MinceRsuch as what happens to the fd lists passed to select.Jun 11 20:04
DaemonXPbreak standards, but publish HOW you broke themJun 11 20:04
DaemonXPto encourage people to follow youJun 11 20:04
Carl_Rover2k12MinceR: but there is no way BSD can threaten GPL or Linux for that matter, developers have a choice from application to application they developeJun 11 20:04
DaemonXPsounds familiarJun 11 20:04
MinceRDaemonXP: it has to develop, step forward -- something *bsd doesn't do.Jun 11 20:04
JohnslaxMinceR: Why don't they do that?Jun 11 20:04
DaemonXPLinux has broken and missing support for plenty of valid standardsJun 11 20:04
JohnslaxShow me something to back that statement up.Jun 11 20:04
DaemonXPsometiems it has to mimic Windows and fuck the standardJun 11 20:04
DaemonXPjust to get the PC to bootJun 11 20:05
DaemonXPCoreboot isn't going anywhereJun 11 20:05
DaemonXPso that won't save youJun 11 20:05
_Mutex_BSD is OSX right, macs have about 10% market share, GPL is Linux right, they have somewhat less than 10% Ipso fatso BSD is more popular than linux !!!! :)Jun 11 20:05
DaemonXPLinux has about 0.6% to 1%Jun 11 20:06
DaemonXPdepending on whos rounding error you look atJun 11 20:06
_Mutex_thats why I said somewhat less,  people take objection to actual numbersJun 11 20:06
_Mutex_but I expect you're about rightJun 11 20:06
JohnslaxParts of BSD are used all over the place. Saying that FreeBSD is dead is retarded. Even MS used parts of their network stack, it's components are used in many different projects for just about anything, because of the license.Jun 11 20:06
JohnslaxIf you think it's dead, then read this: http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/security/?p=1682Jun 11 20:07
DaemonXPyes, they used FreeBSD's TCP/IP stack for a whileJun 11 20:07
_Mutex_used parts for their network stand, about a million years ago, but yes they did, paid for and correctly licensedJun 11 20:07
DaemonXPbut it was gone by Windows 2000Jun 11 20:07
DaemonXPproven by the leaked source code from MainWinJun 11 20:07
_Mutex_freely admitted by MS or BSDJun 11 20:08
_Mutex_it was no secretJun 11 20:08
DaemonXPFreeBSD doesn't careJun 11 20:08
DaemonXPbecause they're not rabidJun 11 20:08
JohnslaxThey like freedom DeamonXPJun 11 20:08
DaemonXPthey are happy that Apple took FreeBSD codeJun 11 20:08
_Mutex_exactly, thats why they licenses the TCP stack to MSJun 11 20:08
DaemonXPthey even say that on their siteJun 11 20:08
JohnslaxWait, what do you mean by license?Jun 11 20:09
DaemonXPand Apple has given backJun 11 20:09
DaemonXPthrough DarwinJun 11 20:09
DaemonXPFreeBSD is free to incorporate Apple's patchesJun 11 20:09
_Mutex_its a major coup for them, and says alot for the flexability of the BSD license.Jun 11 20:09
DaemonXPand doesJun 11 20:09
EDavidBurgI sympathize with copyleft licenses (ie this is open source and you're not allowed to change that), but the GPL seems too entangling for me.Jun 11 20:10
_Mutex_Mac could have used GPL or BSD, but im sure they felt to restricted by the GPL, in alot of ways its a very restrictive licenseJun 11 20:10
DaemonXPApple uses Apple Public Source License 2.0Jun 11 20:10
_Mutex_many have found that same EDavidJun 11 20:10
DaemonXPwhich is still appropriate for FreeBSD to incorporateJun 11 20:10
EDavidBurgDaemonXP: largely, and also the BSD licenseJun 11 20:11
DaemonXPso patches flow both waysJun 11 20:11
EDavidBurgAPSL is a FSF approved free software licenseJun 11 20:11
*Johnslax has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")Jun 11 20:11
_Mutex_even google wont use GPL for its internal appsJun 11 20:11
DaemonXPit's not like Apple ever just ran off with a fork and decided to maintain it all by themselvesJun 11 20:11
DaemonXPthat would be pointless for the long termJun 11 20:11
_Mutex_Even if the code was originally GPLdJun 11 20:11
NolikeymeGPL is very entagling. It's very easy to get into trouble with it because there's a very specific definition of "free"Jun 11 20:11
DaemonXPLGPL would be the closest I'd call to appropriateJun 11 20:12
DaemonXPas it isn't viralJun 11 20:12
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_Mutex_yes, that is a restriction of the take up of GPLJun 11 20:12
DaemonXPLGPL just means that if you use that blob of code you have to submit your changes to that blob of codeJun 11 20:13
DaemonXPnot what you link it toJun 11 20:13
DaemonXPwhich can be proprietaryJun 11 20:13
DaemonXPso it doesn't commandeer other peoples workJun 11 20:13
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DaemonXPthe virus clause is the single most damning thing in the GPLJun 11 20:15
BuntuBoyVirus clause?Jun 11 20:16
_Mutex_as is the liability disclaimerJun 11 20:16
BuntuBoyBut I love the GPL.Jun 11 20:16
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BuntuBoyIt's great for the end user.Jun 11 20:16
benjimanlgpl also requires you publish at least the object code to allow re-linking which a lot of people ignore.Jun 11 20:17
_Mutex_its not designed to help the end user at all,.Jun 11 20:17
MinceRDaemonXP: why don't you go and ask the OpenSSH guys how well the BSDL stuff turned out for them?Jun 11 20:17
_Mutex_if you are not a programmer, the GPL basically gives you nothingJun 11 20:17
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BuntuBoyNot necessarily, if you're serving the cause of the GPL.Jun 11 20:17
MinceR_Mutex_: you can still hire a programmer to do any changes for youJun 11 20:17
_Mutex_It gives you the right to look at and modify the code, if you dont know how to do that, that good is the ability to do it ?Jun 11 20:17
MinceR_Mutex_: why didn't you read the rationale for GPL? :)Jun 11 20:17
benjimanIt gives you the freedom to get your support from any vendor, rather than the original creator having a monopoly.Jun 11 20:18
_Mutex_I know it, ive read itJun 11 20:18
Nolikeyme_Mutex_ +1Jun 11 20:18
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DaemonXPwell, like LAME, LAME would never be used by anyone if it was GPLJun 11 20:18
JohnslaxHey againJun 11 20:18
_Mutex_Ive read the "4" freedoms.Jun 11 20:18
_Mutex_allthough freedom 0 does not exist IMHO.Jun 11 20:18
BuntuBoyI love the four freedoms, especially freedom 0Jun 11 20:18
DaemonXPcause every media player that uses lame_enc.dll would have to be GPL as wellJun 11 20:18
DaemonXPStallman knows the GPL would make Vorbis uselessJun 11 20:18
DaemonXPso it's BSD licensedJun 11 20:18
BuntuBoyHow would that make Vorbis useless?!Jun 11 20:19
_Mutex_and google use Apache 2.0Jun 11 20:19
BuntuBoyBut that doesn't necessarily make the GPL a bad license based on who's using it.Jun 11 20:19
DaemonXPcause if I wanted to make a proprietary media player link to Vorbis, I'd have to make my player GPL if Vorbis wasJun 11 20:19
DaemonXPso I'd probably jsut not include VorbisJun 11 20:19
DaemonXPthat's why Vorbis is BSDJun 11 20:19
DaemonXPnot GPLJun 11 20:20
schestowitzOK, this is stupid: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-06-11-021-35-OS-CY-0001 This guy is accusing all opposition of Mono, attributing it to "cult of Roy Schestowitz"Jun 11 20:20
BuntuBoyYeah, Mono is bad!Jun 11 20:20
BuntuBoyIt's such an evil programming language!Jun 11 20:20
BuntuBoyWith M$ and their evil monopoly!Jun 11 20:20
balzaclolJun 11 20:20
BuntuBoyThey really have a death grip on the tech industry.Jun 11 20:20
MinceRmono is a programming language?Jun 11 20:20
_Mutex_I see Mono as GPL'd code no more no less, if GPL code can be evil, that is a problem with GPL not the code.Jun 11 20:21
BuntuBoyIt's evil thanks to the EMCA!Jun 11 20:21
BuntuBoyAnd Micro$oft!Jun 11 20:21
DaemonXP* The anti-Mono people have nothing to say when the GNU implementation of the same standards is mentioned, Portable.NET. They have a C# compiler and a runtime system with JIT, much like Mono, though the project isn't as active as de Icaza's runtime system.Jun 11 20:21
_Mutex_Its a framework for the .NET and c#Jun 11 20:21
DaemonXPthink I mentioned dotGNUJun 11 20:21
DaemonXPwhat is the official line of schestowitz for that?Jun 11 20:21
BuntuBoyDon't you make fun of Roy!Jun 11 20:21
_Mutex_It allows .NET developers to develop on Linux for Linux OR Windows,Jun 11 20:21
BuntuBoyHe's a good writer that stands for something!Jun 11 20:22
balzac_Mutex_: that's why the GPL was updated recently.Jun 11 20:22
schestowitzMono is not a P/LJun 11 20:22
_Mutex_It's no different to WINE, it interfaces with common damain API's and has been written by MS to not be patent encoumberedJun 11 20:22
BuntuBoyIt's MS-PLJun 11 20:22
balzacGPLv2 is more vulnerable to patent threats than GPLv3Jun 11 20:22
JohnslaxThe recent GPL update is takin' my freedomz aways!Jun 11 20:22
_Mutex_Mono is GPLv2Jun 11 20:22
BuntuBoyIt is?!Jun 11 20:22
balzacBuntuBoy: hilarious nickJun 11 20:22
BuntuBoyBut I thought it was bad.Jun 11 20:22
BuntuBoybalzac: Thank you?Jun 11 20:23
schestowitzHere is the context anyway: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-06-11-021-35-OS-CYJun 11 20:23
schestowitzThere's a ~60 comment discussion there about itJun 11 20:23
balzacIt seems like Roy's most persistent followers are his detractors.Jun 11 20:23
BuntuBoyI prefer Python to any .NET-based garbage.Jun 11 20:23
schestowitzMono just happens to go hand in hand with C#, MS VS, .NET, Windows, etc.Jun 11 20:23
benjimanYou can run python on .net, don't worry.Jun 11 20:24
schestowitzIt's the EEE to MicrosoftJun 11 20:24
BuntuBoyI don't want to!Jun 11 20:24
schestowitzPatents asideJun 11 20:24
_Mutex_I cant understand what the issue with Mono is, if you dont like it uninstall it, but its GPL'd code so there is no risk to users,Jun 11 20:24
BuntuBoyPython on .NET defeats the point of using Python for FOSS coding.Jun 11 20:24
schestowitzTrueJun 11 20:24
_Mutex_If you dont like Mono, you really dont like GPL !!Jun 11 20:24
schestowitzBut if it's there by default, then...Jun 11 20:24
BuntuBoyWhat?!Jun 11 20:24
JohnslaxMaybe we should move to china. It's a pretty awesome country, they don't believe in patents, so we don't have to worry!Jun 11 20:24
schestowitzThe situation where you burn it into CDs creates liabilityJun 11 20:24
DaemonXP_Mutex_: If not for Wine, even fewer people would use LinuxJun 11 20:24
schestowitzIt also makes people habitually dependent on itJun 11 20:25
BuntuBoyJohnslax: but China's using FreeBSDJun 11 20:25
DaemonXPhate to break that to youJun 11 20:25
BuntuBoyFreeBSD is dead.Jun 11 20:25
BuntuBoySo by transitive property, China is dead.Jun 11 20:25
_Mutex_DaemonXP yes thats true.Jun 11 20:25
schestowitzIts goal is to push Linux developers to .NET, VS and other such wares and then neglect PHP, Python, Java etcJun 11 20:25
schestowitzWho controls .NET?Jun 11 20:25
schestowitzMicrosoftJun 11 20:25
BuntuBoyMicro$osft, rather!Jun 11 20:25
schestowitzThat's the EEE  (embrace...)Jun 11 20:25
balzacRoy, you're getting their gourds man.Jun 11 20:25
DaemonXPWine is useful in that it allows you to move a lot of your existing Windows software to LinuxJun 11 20:25
NolikeymeWhat do most programs run on? Microsoft.Jun 11 20:25
DaemonXPwithout that, Linux would be an even tougher sell to someone using WindowsJun 11 20:26
JohnslaxMicro$theftJun 11 20:26
BuntuBoyWhat do most good software run on? GNU.Jun 11 20:26
balzacThe constant presence of opposition here in #boycottnovell is good.Jun 11 20:26
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schestowitzWine is for existing appsJun 11 20:26
schestowitzNot for developmentJun 11 20:26
BuntuBoyWine is horrible, too.Jun 11 20:26
schestowitzLike fostering a child versus concewptionJun 11 20:26
BuntuBoyThem and ReactOS really get my goat.Jun 11 20:26
_Mutex_jsut out of interest, what COULD MS do that would not be considered evil ?,, i sometimes wonder :)Jun 11 20:26
balzacIt means they're more afraid of leaving you un-opposed than of opposing you.Jun 11 20:26
BuntuBoyThey could die.Jun 11 20:27
DaemonXPschestowitz: Tell that to EAJun 11 20:27
balzacbut their opposition makes attentionJun 11 20:27
schestowitzbalzac: not when it turns vulgareJun 11 20:27
BuntuBoyThe whole company could burn to the ground.Jun 11 20:27
DaemonXPthat's their official Linux portJun 11 20:27
schestowitz*garJun 11 20:27
balzacyeahJun 11 20:27
DaemonXPcompiling it againt CedegaJun 11 20:27
NolikeymeThe good thing about Mono is that .Net programs can run better on Linux. If Linux is ever going to work on the desktop, people have to be able to run the programs they wantJun 11 20:27
balzacyou have to throw the vulgarians outJun 11 20:27
Nolikeymeand .Net is growingJun 11 20:27
DaemonXP*againstJun 11 20:27
_Mutex_then were would OSs get their IDEA's from ?? LOLJun 11 20:27
BuntuBoyNolikeyme: Growing like cancer?Jun 11 20:27
NolikeymeI'm not a big fan of .Net, but...I'm also a realist.Jun 11 20:27
BuntuBoy.NET is cancer.Jun 11 20:27
balzacbut you've got a few opponents who seem capable of not crapping on the carpet, which is good, imo.Jun 11 20:27
schestowitzNolikeyme was bannedJun 11 20:27
schestowitzBut he's being more polite nowJun 11 20:27
schestowitzit's "Trojan"/"SirCane"Jun 11 20:28
Nolikeymeschestowitz: When was I being rude? Seriously, because if I was, I didn't mean to be.Jun 11 20:28
balzacone or the other?Jun 11 20:28
NolikeymeAnd, no, I'm not Trojan or Sir SaneJun 11 20:28
EDavidBurgschestowitz: Trojan, SirSane and ViperChief are 3 different people, btwJun 11 20:28
BuntuBoyLiar!Jun 11 20:28
balzacThose guys clowned themselvesJun 11 20:28
BuntuBoyGo back to your FUD host!Jun 11 20:28
schestowitzEDavidBurg: OKJun 11 20:28
balzacBuntuBoy: I'm doubting you're seriousness.Jun 11 20:28
NolikeymeWe clowned ourselves? Weird.Jun 11 20:28
Johnslaxso confused!Jun 11 20:28
NolikeymelolJun 11 20:28
BuntuBoyI don't understand.Jun 11 20:29
balzacToo many exclamation marks.Jun 11 20:29
schestowitzThere are other nyms in fsdailyJun 11 20:29
schestowitzWasting time there of admins and readersJun 11 20:29
schestowitzFSdaaily was never quite trahsed beforeJun 11 20:29
balzacyou're satirizing an Ubuntu 'fanboy'Jun 11 20:29
BuntuBoyNo...Jun 11 20:29
NolikeymeBut, seriously, folks.  I don't like .Net, I'm not a big fan of Mono, but I also look at things from a realist perspective.Jun 11 20:29
balzac19:44 < BuntuBoy> Liar!Jun 11 20:29
BuntuBoyI've been using it since Hoary.Jun 11 20:29
BuntuBoyI remove Mono by default.Jun 11 20:30
balzacyou're flippantJun 11 20:30
BuntuBoyI just like the ease-of-use.Jun 11 20:30
balzacand unseriousJun 11 20:30
balzac19:43 < BuntuBoy> The whole company could burn to the ground.Jun 11 20:30
BuntuBoyThey should!Jun 11 20:30
BuntuBoyMicrosoft does terrible things to the FOSS community.Jun 11 20:30
balzacI think you're trying to make Ubuntu look badJun 11 20:30
NolikeymeAnd for Linux to be on the desktop and adopted by regular people, who wants to use their programs, Mono is a step towards being able to use programs across both platformsJun 11 20:30
balzacI don't think you're trying to share "Ubuntu"Jun 11 20:30
BuntuBoyWhatever, man. You're free to think what you want.Jun 11 20:30
JohnslaxUbuntu needs help with that balzac?Jun 11 20:30
EDavidBurgbalzac: i dunno, if you've ever gone on UF... there are some pretty bad fanboysJun 11 20:31
*EDavidBurg coughs and points at SunnyRabbieraJun 11 20:31
EDavidBurguf = ubuntuforums.orgJun 11 20:31
balzacJohnslax: apparently, because "BuntuBoy" thinks they need to made to look foolish.Jun 11 20:31
BuntuBoyThey've always been pretty nice guys over there.Jun 11 20:31
NolikeymeThings can't always be how we want them. Sometimes the ends justifies the means.Jun 11 20:31
balzacEDavidBurg: sure, but I don't think "BuntuBoy" is real.Jun 11 20:31
BuntuBoyHow can I prove otherwise?Jun 11 20:32
JohnslaxI think he is. He's right here talking to me.Jun 11 20:32
BuntuBoyI can show you my profile with numerous pro-FOSS posts.Jun 11 20:32
balzacTry more subtlety in your acting.Jun 11 20:32
_Mutex_if he's not real what is he ?Jun 11 20:32
Nolikeyme_Mutex_ virtual?Jun 11 20:32
Johnslaxa microsoft ghost?Jun 11 20:32
_Mutex_unreal ?? LOLJun 11 20:32
BuntuBoyhttp://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=506291Jun 11 20:32
_Mutex_surrealJun 11 20:32
BuntuBoyThat's me.Jun 11 20:32
balzacA guy pretending to be an Ubuntu advocate.Jun 11 20:32
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BuntuBoyI really love Ubuntu.Jun 11 20:33
*DaemonXP (n=none@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has left #boycottnovellJun 11 20:33
BuntuBoyI think it does a lot of great things for FOSs.Jun 11 20:33
balzaca classic agent provocateurJun 11 20:33
*donkeypuke (i=a21b0914@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d3e0effb865c87ad) has joined #boycottnovellJun 11 20:33
BuntuBoyWhat's that?Jun 11 20:33
_Mutex_its a french word mean you like to provoke people, (i know because im one :))Jun 11 20:34
balzaclots of trolls who are opposed to software freedom are pretending to be advocatesJun 11 20:34
BuntuBoyThat's weird.Jun 11 20:34
balzacIt's asinineJun 11 20:34
NolikeymeCan we get back on topic?Jun 11 20:34
EDavidBurgBuntuBoy: say "I've used Ubuntu since Hoary" in this thread http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1184732&page=2Jun 11 20:34
balzacNolikeyme: you don't set the topic.Jun 11 20:34
balzacToo many guests here are eager to throw their weight around.Jun 11 20:35
balzacBut you're guests here.Jun 11 20:35
NolikeymeI'm not throwing my weight.Jun 11 20:35
balzacNolikeyme: asking to get back on topic was out of line.Jun 11 20:35
NolikeymeI was interested in the Mono/.net stuff that was being discussedJun 11 20:35
balzacThe topic is you.Jun 11 20:35
Nolikeymebalzac: how was it out of line?Jun 11 20:36
schestowitz"Moblin drives me crazy, because I can't find any of the things that I am used to working with, and I can't find anything that I am accustomed to doing as a system administrator. UNR looks much more "Linux-Like" to me, I recognize what everything is and where it came from, and I can find my way around and work with it without too much trouble." http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,10012930o-2000498448b,00.htmJun 11 20:36
BuntuBoyI read Roy's recent article about how the community in Ubuntu is against removing mono.Jun 11 20:36
_Mutex_I actually dont think there are  many people that are opposed to software freedom, you'll more people react again the attitude displayed by a large percentage of the FOSS community.Jun 11 20:36
BuntuBoyJust terrible.Jun 11 20:36
balzacNolikeyme: you don't define what is on or off topic.Jun 11 20:36
NolikeymeWow. I'm sorry.Jun 11 20:36
schestowitz* donkeypuke (i=a21b0914@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d3e0effb865c87ad) has joined #boycottnovellJun 11 20:37
schestowitzOK, what is this? Kindergarten?Jun 11 20:37
JohnslaxDonkeypuke?......Jun 11 20:37
BuntuBoyI hope not.Jun 11 20:37
JohnslaxWho does then, balzac?Jun 11 20:37
schestowitzI think some people come here just to point to it later and say "look at the BN people, they are vulgar"Jun 11 20:37
donkeypukeactually, the nick is a long story. not meant to be offensiveJun 11 20:37
BuntuBoyJohnslax: Obviously the admins, duh.Jun 11 20:37
schestowitzAnd many come from the same place... linxxxxxJun 11 20:37
NolikeymeI didn't realize that it was so strictly governed in here. I just saw someone talk about Mono/.Net and it interested me.Jun 11 20:38
balzaci'm not an opJun 11 20:38
JohnslaxDoes Balzac have  sttaff privs?Jun 11 20:38
_GoblinRoy: Agreed.Jun 11 20:38
balzaci have no authorityJun 11 20:38
MinceRnothing is strictly governed here. isn't that obvious? :)Jun 11 20:38
BuntuBoy?Jun 11 20:38
_Goblinthe Linxxx.xxx site I believe it aimed to frighten off new and enthusiastic users of a distro which is sucking away MS customers..Jun 11 20:38
NolikeymeMinceR: lol Well, it just kind of took me aback when I wanted to get back on topic, and was "attacked" like that. Not really, attacked, but I can't think of a better term.Jun 11 20:38
BuntuBoyI assumed balzac was a chan op, he speaks with authority.Jun 11 20:38
balzacnot even a contributor to BN, only a commentorJun 11 20:39
MinceRNolikeyme: you're evading bans -- on most channels that would get you banned instantly.Jun 11 20:39
BuntuBoyMinceR: how so?Jun 11 20:39
balzacBuntuBoy: I know how to address trollsJun 11 20:39
Nolikeymebalzac: from what I can see, Mr. Schestowitz runs this, not you.Jun 11 20:39
schestowitzLinus associates himself with conspiracy nuts now: http://www.thestandard.com/news/2009/06/10/torvalds-proclaims-new-world-order-linux-2-6-30 (Torvalds proclaims 'new world order' with Linux 2.6.30)Jun 11 20:39
balzacNolikeyme: true.Jun 11 20:39
_GoblinI think the Linxxx.xxx site would be dangerous if the people running it had any sense...Jun 11 20:39
BuntuBoyWhat's Linxxx.xxx?Jun 11 20:40
_Goblinit seems now they are fixated with BN, probably because they see it as a way to get hits....Jun 11 20:40
*schestowitz reckons if he opped MinceR the channel's population will be halved in one minuteJun 11 20:40
Nolikeymeand all I wanted to do was get away from the "is he fake" or not because I thought the Mono discussion was better and more suited, since it's a thing about the MS/Novell/Linux thingJun 11 20:40
JohnslaxThere's no such thing as a .xx domain, is there?Jun 11 20:40
MinceRschestowitz: that's likely.Jun 11 20:40
BuntuBoyI didn't think so.Jun 11 20:40
MinceRwell, not in one minuteJun 11 20:40
_Mutex_yes, the great conspiracy of the OS suspend and resume, how'd they every get away with that !!!Jun 11 20:40
Johnslaxnolikeyme: the paranoia is pretty bad hereJun 11 20:40
EDavidBurgJohnslax: they were considering making .xxx be for porn sites, but that never happenedJun 11 20:40
MinceRi wait and watch for more than that.Jun 11 20:41
_Goblinbuntuboy: linxxx.xxx is a site run by children which serves no purpose.Jun 11 20:41
EDavidBurg_Goblin: it doesn't resolveJun 11 20:41
NolikeymeI saw that earlier (the Torvalds thing) and thought it was a little weird. I never did get around to reading it though.Jun 11 20:41
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JohnslaxI can't find anything on google related to linxxx.xxxJun 11 20:41
BuntuBoyLike, a site with bad design that advocates linux?Jun 11 20:41
Johnslaxwhat is it?Jun 11 20:41
_Goblinoh well...Jun 11 20:41
Johnslaxa program?Jun 11 20:41
BuntuBoyI mean, there's tons of Linux advocacy sites already.Jun 11 20:41
schestowitzLinus is being funnyJun 11 20:41
NolikeymeOh okayJun 11 20:41
_Goblinno buntuboy, bad design has nothing to do with it.Jun 11 20:41
schestowitzBut the whole "I a your God" thing was too farJun 11 20:41
schestowitzHe could get the Dawkins arrogance complexJun 11 20:42
NolikeymeHe said that in there?Jun 11 20:42
_Goblincontent is the matter at hand and the Linxxx.xxx has nothing of worth...Jun 11 20:42
donkeypukelinus *is* arrogant. that's part of the charm.Jun 11 20:42
_Mutex_no he said that in a conferenceJun 11 20:42
NolikeymeI can see how he would get that. Linux has turned into a massive thing, thanks to him.Jun 11 20:42
_Mutex_he's dutchJun 11 20:42
JohnslaxGoblin: I wanna seeJun 11 20:42
EDavidBurg_Goblin: why do you x it out?Jun 11 20:42
EDavidBurglinsux.org is what he's referring to, btw...Jun 11 20:43
_Goblinbecause since it tries to use BN to gain readers, I wont help that cause.Jun 11 20:43
schestowitzThe Adobe AIR File API < http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7365/ >. How proprietary is AIR?Jun 11 20:43
JohnslaxThanks edavidJun 11 20:43
schestowitzI stopped using AIRJun 11 20:43
schestowitzOxygen is good thoughJun 11 20:43
schestowitzEven on KDE3Jun 11 20:43
JohnslaxwtfJun 11 20:43
NolikeymeWell, Adobe has been pretty good on the proprietary market.Jun 11 20:44
EDavidBurg_Goblin: linsux has never really been concerned with gaining readership, it's pretty much 15 guys lol'ing at the world and cursing at each otherJun 11 20:44
Johnslax"Fedora, by crack heads, for crack heads "?Jun 11 20:44
NolikeymeI wish Gnash would get a little better. I try every so often to see if its better.Jun 11 20:44
_GoblinIm sure.Jun 11 20:44
schestowitzYou know how we always warn that entities like ISO can be hijacked from the inside?Jun 11 20:44
schestowitzOr VMware?Jun 11 20:44
_GoblinBut why come here?Jun 11 20:44
NolikeymeIt's gotten better, but has a lot of work to goJun 11 20:44
schestowitzMS signs deal with TucciJun 11 20:44
schestowitzTucci puts MS as CEO of VMwareJun 11 20:44
schestowitzCEO of VMware then make the COO a MS guyJun 11 20:44
schestowitzThen make the CTO the sameJun 11 20:44
schestowitzHijack from the insideJun 11 20:44
NolikeymeJohnslax: Fedora is for crack heads? I should stop using it, then.Jun 11 20:45
schestowitzI think this channel is under the same type of riskJun 11 20:45
Johnslaxhttp://linsux.org/index.php/topic,1138.0.htmlJun 11 20:45
JohnslaxI hope some big black guy rapes the admins for thatJun 11 20:45
JohnslaxBeing half black, that's way too offensive.Jun 11 20:45
schestowitzHigh Netbook Return Rate? Windows Is the Problem < http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2009/06/high-netbook-return-rate-windo.html >Jun 11 20:46
*schestowitz sets ban on *!i=d83be24f@*.com/x-c5bd57a4f890c770Jun 11 20:46
*schestowitz has kicked Johnslax from #boycottnovell (schestowitz)Jun 11 20:46
_GoblinEdavid, can you understand why I blanked it out?Jun 11 20:46
_Mutex_If windows is on most netbooks, its stands to reason that more windows will be returned, soft of by definition.Jun 11 20:46
NolikeymeThat's not niveJun 11 20:47
NolikeymeniceJun 11 20:47
_GoblinBeen using XP on a netbook for a week now (due to being on holiday)...all I can say, is:Jun 11 20:47
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EDavidBurg_Goblin: does your client support tab completing nicks?Jun 11 20:47
_GoblinXP is reasonable, but god help Vista or 7 as XP is certainly not a speed demon.Jun 11 20:47
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_Goblinedavidburg no.Jun 11 20:47
EDavidBurgthen you should get a better client (read: irssi) :)Jun 11 20:48
_GoblinI use Irssi....Jun 11 20:48
_Mutex_I replaced XP with Win7 on a OLD laptop, and its JUSt as fast,, if NOT FASTER :)Jun 11 20:48
EDavidBurgum. that definitely supports tab completingJun 11 20:48
_Goblinbut for reasons above I'm not on my native system at the moment.Jun 11 20:48
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_Mutex_than XP, and uses like 3% CPU or less most of the time.Jun 11 20:48
schestowitzMeh. How to run .NET programs in Linux. < http://www.prohowto.net/2009/06/how-to-run-net-programs-in-linux.html >Jun 11 20:48
_GoblinI downloaded the first IRC client I could get my hands on...Jun 11 20:48
EDavidBurg_Goblin: xchat supports itJun 11 20:49
EDavidBurgsilverex.orgJun 11 20:49
_GoblinI'm not using Xchat either...Im using an old version of HirC.Jun 11 20:49
EDavidBurgwell, then go get xchatJun 11 20:49
_Goblinsince its the only one so far that hasnt become unstableJun 11 20:49
schestowitzXChat is greatJun 11 20:49
schestowitzBut my basis for comprison is poorJun 11 20:50
EDavidBurgof the GUI apps I've used it's the bestJun 11 20:50
_GoblinXchat is fine, but on large channels it simply hangs on this netbookJun 11 20:50
schestowitzI used mirc when I was 14Jun 11 20:50
_GoblinMirc was great...Jun 11 20:50
donkeypukei sorta like xchat. wish i could use it now. stuck at work on an XP machine running IE6. not allowed to install appsJun 11 20:50
schestowitz 5973 roy       20   0 52852  16m 6228 S    1  0.8   7:39.26 xchatJun 11 20:50
schestowitz1% of my RAMJun 11 20:51
schestowitzless than 20MBJun 11 20:51
_Mutex_when I was 14 there was not such thing as DOS or IBM-PC'sJun 11 20:51
BuntuBoyHaha, oh IBM.Jun 11 20:51
BuntuBoyMemories.Jun 11 20:51
schestowitzIBM still makes money from patenrs and h/wJun 11 20:52
_GoblinI was on the A500 when I was 14 (i think)Jun 11 20:52
BuntuBoyI'm really disappointed in IBM anymore.Jun 11 20:52
schestowitzThey also offer services, but a lot of their software is bad. Lotus stuff for example..Jun 11 20:52
BuntuBoyYeah...Jun 11 20:52
BuntuBoyAt least they're getting behind ODF.Jun 11 20:52
_Mutex_My first "PC" was a 2650 CPU 1Mhz clock, 1K ROM (OS, Pipbug) 1K expandable to 4K static RAM, 20mA current look I/O to a Baudo Telephinter !!!.Jun 11 20:52
_Goblinexcellent!Jun 11 20:52
donkeypukeooh, my first was a TI99/4AJun 11 20:53
_Mutex_Ofcourse I had to solder all the part in myself, I really with I still had it too.Jun 11 20:53
donkeypukefun timesJun 11 20:53
_Mutex_sure wasJun 11 20:53
bannedMy first computer was a PDP11Jun 11 20:53
BuntuBoyhaha, very funny.Jun 11 20:53
bannedThat baby looked sexy in my room!Jun 11 20:53
BuntuBoyThe old Unix machines.Jun 11 20:53
BuntuBoyMy first was a PC jr.Jun 11 20:53
_Goblinfirst machine was a Sinclair ZX81Jun 11 20:54
_Mutex_me and Craig Southeren uses to hack micro's and early space invader machines, Google Craig, the inventor of HS-232Jun 11 20:54
MinceRis that related to the RS-232? :>Jun 11 20:54
_Mutex_VOIPJun 11 20:54
_Mutex_might be H323Jun 11 20:54
BuntuBoyI remember all the old Sierra DOS games.Jun 11 20:54
BuntuBoyI learned to read from that stuff.Jun 11 20:54
BuntuBoyGreat times.Jun 11 20:55
donkeypukesierra? bleh. lucasarts all the wayJun 11 20:55
bannedI also have a Vax machine that Steve Ballmer is rumoured to have puked on.Jun 11 20:55
_GoblinSpace QuestJun 11 20:55
BuntuBoySpace Quest!Jun 11 20:55
donkeypukemonkey island and loom ftw!Jun 11 20:55
BuntuBoyRoger Wilco FTW!Jun 11 20:55
BuntuBoyIt's such a shame that SQ7 got shut down...Jun 11 20:55
_Mutex_Craig is a BIG name in FOSS circles, was a great friend and a bit of a hero to me :)Jun 11 20:55
BuntuBoyIt was going to be built on a FOSS engine called SLAGE.Jun 11 20:55
BuntuBoyI wish there were more adventure games in the FOSS community like the old days.Jun 11 20:57
BuntuBoyInstead of a million shoot-em-ups.Jun 11 20:57
bannedBuntuboy, we should make one.Jun 11 20:57
BuntuBoybanned: Well, currently I'm learning to make one with pyGame.Jun 11 20:57
_Mutex_Craig went to university to do comp sci, after talking to his professors, he worked out he knew far more than they did, so he left.Jun 11 20:57
bannedCall it "Can you pick all of the hobbits out of RMS's beard."Jun 11 20:58
BuntuBoybanned: Haha!Jun 11 20:59
bannedThen we can make "Can you beat Tove in kickboxing?"Jun 11 20:59
balzacschestowitz: I think this means you're winning.Jun 11 21:00
BuntuBoyOr maybe a game where you report on the wrongdoings of MS.Jun 11 21:00
bannedBN already made it...Jun 11 21:00
BuntuBoyBut we can do a remake!Jun 11 21:00
banneda better one?Jun 11 21:00
BuntuBoyThat's huge in adventure game circles.Jun 11 21:00
BuntuBoyWith VGA graphics, and an enhanced plotline!Jun 11 21:00
_Mutex_like the "throw shoe at bush" game :)Jun 11 21:00
bannedMaybe we should remake Halo on LinuxJun 11 21:00
BuntuBoyNo, Halo on HURD.Jun 11 21:01
BuntuBoyFor sure.Jun 11 21:01
bannedM$ would be all like "YOU ASSHOLES!"Jun 11 21:01
donkeypukeewwwJun 11 21:01
bannedStevie boy would cryJun 11 21:01
_Mutex_there is a game called "railroad tycoon" you could have "software tycoon".Jun 11 21:01
_Mutex_You could be stallman, gates, Ballmer, jobs !!Jun 11 21:01
BuntuBoy_Mutx_: I can has vendor lock-in?Jun 11 21:01
_Mutex_and compete with the other tycoonsJun 11 21:02
_Mutex_Sure you can have vender locking, patents, copyrightJun 11 21:02
BuntuBoyAnd research comsumerism and slavery and find ways to mix them..Jun 11 21:02
banned_Mutex_: to hell with thatJun 11 21:02
_Mutex_LOLJun 11 21:02
BuntuBoyThe iGod.Jun 11 21:02
bannedI say we make an ultimate fighting gameJun 11 21:02
BuntuBoyThousands of people praying in front of a dial with a playlist.Jun 11 21:02
_Mutex_dodgy market surveysJun 11 21:02
BuntuBoyOoh!Jun 11 21:02
bannedStaring Billy G and Steve, versus Linus's wifeJun 11 21:02
BuntuBoyAnd don't forget crummy research groups!Jun 11 21:03
bannedI wanna see her kickbox their faces in!Jun 11 21:03
_Mutex_Dirty tactics, CPU warsJun 11 21:03
BuntuBoyMono.Jun 11 21:03
bannedMono is 666ishJun 11 21:03
_Mutex_if it all goes bad you find yourself in EU court !!!!Jun 11 21:03
_Mutex_Or in front of DoJJun 11 21:03
BuntuBoyMono is pretty evil, I'll admit.Jun 11 21:04
BuntuBoyPossibly the most evil syntax language I've ever seen.Jun 11 21:04
BuntuBoyThat and .docxJun 11 21:04
BuntuBoyGoing into OpenOffice, I mean geez.Jun 11 21:04
BuntuBoyIs there even a simple way to remove it?Jun 11 21:04
_Mutex_I wont have anyone calling GPL'd code evil here LOLJun 11 21:04
bannedThe micromafia is evil in general, why would their tech be any different buntuboy?Jun 11 21:04
BuntuBoyWell, hate to burst your bubble, but it's pretty bad.Jun 11 21:04
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BuntuBoybanned: Because, Novell has no standards for a FOSS company.Jun 11 21:05
BuntuBoyThey're just in it for the money.Jun 11 21:05
bannedThey're trying to change us!Jun 11 21:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Adobe loves GNU/Linux... it doesn't think we need patches... < http://ping.fm/Qdpdx >Jun 11 21:05
BuntuBoyHorrible.Jun 11 21:05
MinceRthey aren't in itJun 11 21:05
MinceRthey're against itJun 11 21:05
BuntuBoyI don't think Adobe likes GNU/Linux.Jun 11 21:05
BuntuBoyIf they did, Flash MX would have come out for it already.Jun 11 21:05
BuntuBoyOr they'd GPL Flash.Jun 11 21:06
BuntuBoyBut we have to deal with that or Silverlight.Jun 11 21:06
BuntuBoyOr moonlight.Jun 11 21:06
BuntuBoyAwful, awful moonlight.Jun 11 21:06
bannedTo hell with flash, I bet gnash beats it hands down.Jun 11 21:06
MinceRand photoshop would have come out for it tooJun 11 21:06
BuntuBoyBut we get Mono instead.Jun 11 21:06
BuntuBoyWhy?!Jun 11 21:06
MinceR(not that i need it but i know someone who insists on using it)Jun 11 21:06
bannedDoes anyone actually use Usenet anymore?Jun 11 21:07
BuntuBoyMe.Jun 11 21:07
bannedMe too.Jun 11 21:07
BuntuBoyI love Comp.Os.Linux.AdvocacyJun 11 21:07
BuntuBoySome really great articles.Jun 11 21:07
bannedI was reading that Microsoft is planning to attack wine soonJun 11 21:07
BuntuBoyFigures.Jun 11 21:07
BuntuBoyThey already attacked Linspire for supporting that one.Jun 11 21:08
bannedIt makes sense I guessJun 11 21:08
bannedIf anybody's gonna get sued in the Linux world by MS, it'd be wine or the kernel at this pointJun 11 21:09
BuntuBoyWho'd want to run Windowze software anyway?Jun 11 21:09
bannedI feel sorry for the wine guys if they doJun 11 21:09
BuntuBoyWin apps are virusey garbage.Jun 11 21:09
bannedall their hard work. There'Jun 11 21:09
_Mutex_or samba, or those who use cleartype, and probably many other things, like FATJun 11 21:09
_GoblinBanned:  That was one of my predictions on MSWatch at the end of last year...the last bastion of salvation for Windows is offering customers packages that they may have spent years running...Jun 11 21:09
BuntuBoyTypical corporation.Jun 11 21:10
_Goblinonce Wine has that cracked there really will be no need.Jun 11 21:10
BuntuBoyIf they're not making money, they're hoarding progress.Jun 11 21:10
bannedI think MS has been betting on finding actual MS code in wineJun 11 21:10
BuntuBoyI wonder if they will.Jun 11 21:10
BuntuBoyReactOS will be done for if that's the case.Jun 11 21:10
bannedI wouldn't doubt that there isn't any.Jun 11 21:10
bannedEven if it's one lineJun 11 21:11
BuntuBoyCider will also die out, upsetting tons of Hipster mac lovers.Jun 11 21:11
bannedBeing around for all those years openly, someone will slip something inJun 11 21:11
_Mutex_nor does there have to be, wine could infringe patents without word for work code copyingJun 11 21:11
_GoblinIt wont matter, the code is out there and someone will always be willing to develop it...Jun 11 21:11
BuntuBoyJust look at wine-tricks even.Jun 11 21:11
bannedWhat if wine becomes illegal?Jun 11 21:11
_GoblinMS patent power is useless against an anon uploader.Jun 11 21:12
BuntuBoyThat's a lawsuit waiting to happen.Jun 11 21:12
_GoblinIllegal?Jun 11 21:12
_GoblinYou mean unlawful?Jun 11 21:12
_Mutex_and Ive looked at MS code and Linux code, there basically no way it would be possible or viable to do that,Jun 11 21:12
BuntuBoyWouldn't affect me.Jun 11 21:12
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bannedWell, it make wine uselsss GoblinJun 11 21:12
bannedCompanies won't touch itJun 11 21:12
_Goblin?Jun 11 21:12
_GoblinIm not talking about companies...Jun 11 21:13
balzacThis is wankery.Jun 11 21:13
_GoblinI'm talking about bedroom coders who take the code and develop it themselves.Jun 11 21:13
_Goblinanyone can do that.Jun 11 21:13
bannedIt still makes it illegalJun 11 21:13
_Goblinno it wouldnt.Jun 11 21:13
_GoblinIllegal?Jun 11 21:13
_Mutex_he is right companies wont touch wine,Jun 11 21:13
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_GoblinYou mean "unlawful" (possibly)Jun 11 21:14
bannedIf wine was found to be patent encumberedJun 11 21:14
_GoblinIt cant be "illegal" unless there is provision in law.Jun 11 21:14
bannedIt might still liveo nJun 11 21:14
bannedBut not like it is, no companies would touch it, no distros would include itJun 11 21:14
bannedit would dieJun 11 21:14
_Mutex_unlawful and illegal is much the same, and he's right does not matter where you do it, if you breach patents, you are liable.Jun 11 21:14
_GoblinMaybe you are suggesting the Computer Misuse Act is amended?Jun 11 21:14
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_GoblinNo...sorry Mutex.   In the UK there is alot of differenceJun 11 21:15
_Mutex_Ofcourse if it does not leave your basement, I doubt there will be a problem, but by the letter of the law you broke itJun 11 21:15
_GoblinIts the difference between civil and criminal lawJun 11 21:15
balzacIf you're invested in a company which is counting on software patent claims as part of its core strategy... Get ready to lose money.Jun 11 21:15
balzacor your job.Jun 11 21:15
_Goblinthe burden of proof is completely differentJun 11 21:15
_Mutex_Is it severity ?Jun 11 21:15
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_Mutex_ok, the us is the same, you have a proponderance of guild, ask OJJun 11 21:16
_GoblinA civil case is proved to "Balance of probability" whereas Criminal is "beyond all reasonable doubt"Jun 11 21:16
_Mutex_guilt*Jun 11 21:16
balzacMicrosoft is due for a reality checkJun 11 21:16
_Mutex_yesJun 11 21:16
_Goblinin the UK of course.Jun 11 21:16
balzacPretty soon, they'll realize they have to work for their revenue like everyone else.Jun 11 21:16
balzacNo more free ride!Jun 11 21:16
_Mutex_I would think they realise that nowJun 11 21:17
_Mutex_whos' giveing them a free ride ?Jun 11 21:17
balzacSoftware patent claims are not going to pay the billsJun 11 21:17
balzac_Mutex_: all the poor suckers who buy their products.Jun 11 21:17
_Mutex_They never have for MS,Jun 11 21:17
_Mutex_MS does not make its revinue by patent licenses.Jun 11 21:17
balzac_Mutex_: Microsoft is going to cry.Jun 11 21:18
balzacIt's been a good run for them.Jun 11 21:18
_Mutex_there has to be something comparable to replace it, or to force it out of the market, and I know what your going to say, but no i dont think so.Jun 11 21:19
balzacSteve Ballmer has given us some laughsJun 11 21:19
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_Mutex_If they have not done it in 17 against a 25 year old business, its doubtfull its will ever happen, thats my reality checkJun 11 21:19
balzacOk, then buy MS stock.Jun 11 21:20
amd-linuxFolks, do I read this wrong or does Dell sell Ubuntu for the same price as a WinJun 11 21:20
amd-linuxXP machine ?Jun 11 21:20
amd-linuxhttp://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/laptop-inspiron-10?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04Jun 11 21:20
balzacamd-linux: exact same hardware specs?Jun 11 21:20
amd-linuxlooks soJun 11 21:21
amd-linuxto meJun 11 21:21
amd-linuxcan u pls check maybe I overlooked it cause I  didnt get my daily beerJun 11 21:21
balzacYou ought to get a lower price, or an extra upgraded componentJun 11 21:21
balzacnoJun 11 21:21
_Mutex_im not interested in MS stock, or trolling, im just stating the facts as they stand, nothing im saying is wrong,Jun 11 21:21
balzac_Mutex_: I don't look to windows users to state facts to me about softwareJun 11 21:22
_Mutex_a counter point for balanceJun 11 21:22
schestowitzamd-linux: where did you spit this?Jun 11 21:22
_Mutex_Nor do I.Jun 11 21:22
schestowitzI ask because LinuxToday linked to a 2007 post about itJun 11 21:22
schestowitzIt seems like an old storyJun 11 21:22
amd-linuxthis is the link: http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/laptop-inspiron-10?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04Jun 11 21:22
_Mutex_I actually dont divide "users" into factions. most of the world doesntJun 11 21:23
schestowitzamd-linux: how did you find it?Jun 11 21:23
schestowitzOh, I see nowJun 11 21:23
schestowitzIt's the new modelJun 11 21:23
amd-linuxto me, both machines look identical except one comes with Ubuntu and one With Win XPJun 11 21:23
schestowitzamarsh04: was the offer always like that?Jun 11 21:23
amd-linuxsearch for Ubuntu on dell.com or dell.deJun 11 21:23
balzacMicrosoft divides users into factions with their license which says "DO NOT SHARE, FEDERAL LAW, PUNISHABLE, BLAH BLAH BLAH..."Jun 11 21:23
_Mutex_it will be interesting which will sell the most, all else is equal, perfect testJun 11 21:23
schestowitzRemember that XP for junkbooks is like $5Jun 11 21:24
schestowitzMaybe $0Jun 11 21:24
schestowitzAnd Ubuntu comes with Fluendo garbageJun 11 21:24
amd-linuxstill I cant believe that MS is giving XP away for the same price as Dell pays to install Ubuntu....Jun 11 21:24
_Mutex_windows does not tell me to support windows MS, BSD, Linux, VMS or anything else, ive read the EULA, didnt see it anywhere !!!Jun 11 21:24
amd-linuxlooks like Dell got it special deal on Windows licences :-(Jun 11 21:25
schestowitzI see the headline: "Jun 11 21:26
schestowitz<banned> it would dieJun 11 21:26
schestowitz<_Mutex_> unlawful and illegal is much the same, and he's right does not matter where you do it, if you breach patents, you are liable."Jun 11 21:26
balzacMicrosoft sends people to prison who help their companyJun 11 21:26
schestowitzOopsJun 11 21:26
schestowitz"Leeches or Users? Should Enterprise IT Have to Give Back to FOSS?"Jun 11 21:26
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balzacA man made lots of unlicensed copies of windows and sold them on computers.Jun 11 21:26
balzacMicrosoft had him canned.Jun 11 21:26
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schestowitzThat MS investor and troll Bill Snyder really spread a lot of FUDJun 11 21:26
balzacBut Microsoft depends on their unlicensed distribution as a sort of "loss leader"Jun 11 21:26
schestowitzThose IDG pundits are anti-Linux and hardly hiding itJun 11 21:26
balzacif Microsoft had no unlicensed copies, the world would be clamoring for GNU/LinuxJun 11 21:27
balzacMicrosoft is hypocriticalJun 11 21:27
schestowitzamd-linux: here's an idea.Jun 11 21:27
balzacThey want users to make unlicensed copies, yet they forbid it.Jun 11 21:27
schestowitzWait until July 26th(ish)Jun 11 21:27
schestowitzSee what the dumping is doing to the VoleJun 11 21:27
schestowitzThey already borrow moneyJun 11 21:27
schestowitzAnd the execs jump shipJun 11 21:28
schestowitzBallmer is left, some other new guys get promotedJun 11 21:28
mib_balzfwhi everyone!Jun 11 21:28
schestowitzSometimes from within. So they are left with rookies and people who inherit struggling Business UnitsJun 11 21:28
_Mutex_and if someone broke into your house and stole things, or stole your ability to earn a living, you might call the police and use the law to help you, thats what the law is for, and MS did not put anyone in prison, the Police, courts and laws did.Jun 11 21:28
schestowitzHi, mib_balzfw Jun 11 21:28
mib_balzfwwhoops let me log in as wispygalaxy :PJun 11 21:28
mib_balzfwbrbJun 11 21:28
schestowitzmib_balzfw: can you change to a less generic name?Jun 11 21:28
balzac_Mutex_: that guy made copies, didn't take things.Jun 11 21:29
schestowitz /nick wizpyJun 11 21:29
mib_balzfwhi roy! it's me wispy ;)Jun 11 21:29
schestowitzYeah, I knowJun 11 21:29
schestowitzWe have a zoo issue hereJun 11 21:29
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schestowitzI think Bruce Perens closed his site down after similar weird people took over itJun 11 21:29
balzac_Mutex_: that's a ridiculous comparison. For some reason, I had the idea you were smarter than that.Jun 11 21:29
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_Mutex_Im fairly sure MS does not have the right to imprison people. only courts and police are, and only after it's determined BY the COURT that they have broken a lawJun 11 21:29
balzacMicrosoft green-lighted his prosecutionJun 11 21:30
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schestowitzYoJun 11 21:30
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wispygalaxyi'm back!  :)Jun 11 21:30
balzacMicrosoft depends on these guys to fill up the developing countries with unlicensed copies of windowsJun 11 21:30
schestowitzwispygalaxy from COLAJun 11 21:30
wispygalaxyhello guys and gals!Jun 11 21:30
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schestowitzwispygalaxy: I think you're the only girl hereJun 11 21:30
balzacThat's when the copyright enforcers come into the pictureJun 11 21:30
wispygalaxyawwww :(Jun 11 21:30
balzachi wispygalaxyJun 11 21:30
*mib_75dcsk is now known as BuntuBoyJun 11 21:30
_Mutex_Im sure they did, Im sure they may have even gone to the police, mabey its even a crime to with hold a crime from the police if you become aware of it.Jun 11 21:30
wispygalaxyhey balzac, long time no see!Jun 11 21:30
_Mutex_I think it is,Jun 11 21:30
_Mutex_Failure to report a crimeJun 11 21:31
schestowitzwispygalaxy: bring your cr3w ;-)Jun 11 21:31
balzaclong time, never see, actuallyJun 11 21:31
wispygalaxyhaha royJun 11 21:31
BuntuBoy_Mutex_: Failure to report a crime is awful.Jun 11 21:31
wispygalaxyi'm been so busy lately balzacJun 11 21:31
_Mutex_exactlyJun 11 21:31
wispygalaxyhopefully i'll have more time to chillJun 11 21:31
_Goblinsorry Mutex just returned, seen your posts...Jun 11 21:31
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balzacMicrosoft is embarrassing themselvesJun 11 21:32
schestowitzwispygalaxy: see katherine... she is not shy in headlines.. http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/67261.html See? Hardcore Linux women.Jun 11 21:32
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_Goblinholding crime from police = two possible outcomes...Jun 11 21:32
BuntuBoyI hate Micro$oft with such a passion...Jun 11 21:32
wispygalaxythx for link royJun 11 21:32
_Mutex_im sure they are to some peopleJun 11 21:32
schestowitzECT is weirdJun 11 21:32
*Boblinux (i=d83be24f@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-955aa6c57df27aa6) has joined #boycottnovellJun 11 21:32
schestowitzLinuxInsider in generalJun 11 21:32
BuntuBoyCompanies like that are the scourge of the earrth.Jun 11 21:32
_Goblinobstructing or perverting...depending on context (in the UK anyway)Jun 11 21:32
schestowitzThey sspread all sorts of mythsJun 11 21:32
balzachardcore GNU/Linux women?Jun 11 21:32
schestowitzAfter they had been noughtJun 11 21:32
BoblinuxhiJun 11 21:32
schestowitzAnd people do complain about itJun 11 21:32
schestowitzHi, Boblinux Jun 11 21:32
wispygalaxyhiya boylinuxJun 11 21:33
wispygalaxyboblinux*Jun 11 21:33
BuntuBoyHi Boblinux.Jun 11 21:33
BuntuBoyInteresting name.Jun 11 21:33
Boblinuxwhat's the conversation about?Jun 11 21:33
BuntuBoyM$Jun 11 21:33
_Mutex_Saw a doco about Enron today, man you think MS is bad !!!!  geeezzzzz, and what about your sub-prime bankers, putting all those people on the street losing their OWN homes,Jun 11 21:33
balzacthe decline of MicrosoftJun 11 21:33
BoblinuxIt's not that interesting, my real name is bob and I use Linux.Jun 11 21:33
_Mutex_But You cant put a $ in Enron i guess :)Jun 11 21:33
Boblinux:)Jun 11 21:33
balzacI think Microsoft may be the next big accounting scandalJun 11 21:33
BuntuBoyWhich distro?Jun 11 21:33
balzacOver-stating their assetsJun 11 21:34
BuntuBoyBoblinux: which distroJun 11 21:34
balzac"cooking their books"Jun 11 21:34
wispygalaxybook value vs market valueJun 11 21:34
_Mutex_is that based on any facts or just wishfull thinking ?Jun 11 21:34
BuntuBoyPossibly a bit of both.Jun 11 21:35
BoblinuxBuntuBoy: http://www.nimblex.net/Jun 11 21:35
balzac_Mutex_: schestowitz has published on this subject a few timesJun 11 21:35
schestowitz_Mutex_: Microsoft could be another EnronJun 11 21:35
balzacIt makes perfect sense to meJun 11 21:35
schestowitzWe just don't know yetJun 11 21:35
schestowitzSome send me E-mails calling Microsoft thatJun 11 21:35
balzacIt would be spectacularJun 11 21:35
wispygalaxyscandal!Jun 11 21:35
BuntuBoyI wonder if any Enron workers work for M$.Jun 11 21:36
_Mutex_I dont see how, Do y ou know what enron did to make and lose its money ?? I do,Jun 11 21:36
_Mutex_MS is not even in the same game, MS is a comody provider, not a rampant investor.Jun 11 21:36
wispygalaxybrb guysJun 11 21:36
BuntuBoyM$ is full of lobbyists, though.Jun 11 21:36
schestowitz"There is such an overvaluation of technology stocks that it is absurd. I would include our stock in that category. It is bad for the long-term worth of the economy." -Steve BallmerJun 11 21:36
BoblinuxDo you guys remember me? I used to hang around here a little about 3 months ago. Under the name poondillyJun 11 21:36
balzacno kiddingJun 11 21:36
BuntuBoyWhat's poondilly mean?Jun 11 21:37
BuntuBoyIs it a Southern term?Jun 11 21:37
_Mutex_Roy how long ago was that statement ?Jun 11 21:37
_Mutex_mabey in teh Dotcom era ?Jun 11 21:38
BoblinuxBuntuBoy: I like to put my dilly into some poon.Jun 11 21:38
BoblinuxSo, poondilly is a good choice.Jun 11 21:38
BuntuBoyBoblinux: That's gross!Jun 11 21:38
_Mutex_in that case he's absolutely correctJun 11 21:38
BuntuBoyBoblinux: Not to mention, inappopriate!Jun 11 21:38
BoblinuxI didn't mean to break rules. Nobody complained when I actually used the nameJun 11 21:38
Boblinux:(Jun 11 21:38
BuntuBoyWell, probably no one asked.Jun 11 21:39
BuntuBoyMaybe you don't mean any wrong by it, but that's an awful title for a community such as this.Jun 11 21:39
BoblinuxIt's not like my name was Vaginastuffer or somethingJun 11 21:39
BuntuBoyIt's trollish.Jun 11 21:39
balzachehehJun 11 21:39
_Mutex_and you should be going after alan greenspan and not gates, greenspan brought about Enron's failure AND the DotCOM bubble burst.Jun 11 21:40
balzacBoblinux: you sound more like a microsoft userJun 11 21:40
BoblinuxI still use Windows, if that's what you mean.Jun 11 21:40
balzacSo you probably see a lot of porn pop upsJun 11 21:40
wispygalaxydo you dual boot?Jun 11 21:40
BoblinuxSo I am technically a M$ userJun 11 21:40
wispygalaxynoooooJun 11 21:40
BoblinuxYeah, I need it for school and stuffJun 11 21:40
balzacwhich leads you to be more crass than us GNU/Linux usersJun 11 21:40
BuntuBoyI've used Ubuntu since Hoary.Jun 11 21:41
BoblinuxI prefer NimblexJun 11 21:41
balzacwispygalaxy: are you a php developer by any chance?Jun 11 21:41
wispygalaxynopeJun 11 21:41
balzacokJun 11 21:41
BuntuBoyI'd take HTML any day.Jun 11 21:41
wispygalaxyi'm getting into java, thoughJun 11 21:41
balzacwhy?Jun 11 21:41
BuntuBoyBetter than Mono.Jun 11 21:41
wispygalaxyi need it for financeJun 11 21:41
balzacokJun 11 21:41
wispygalaxythat or C++ is acceptedJun 11 21:42
BuntuBoyOr straight up C.Jun 11 21:42
BoblinuxDo you dual boot wispygalaxy?Jun 11 21:42
BoblinuxWhat about you balzac?Jun 11 21:42
BuntuBoyWhy would anyone want to dualboot?Jun 11 21:42
wispygalaxyi'm not sure that c is used a lot in finance, maybe i'm wrongJun 11 21:42
balzacGNU/LinuxJun 11 21:42
schestowitz_Mutex_: I think a decade ago, just less than thatJun 11 21:42
balzacUbuntuJun 11 21:42
BuntuBoyC's a lot more flexible than you'd think.Jun 11 21:42
wispygalaxynah i don'tJun 11 21:42
schestowitzMS lost tens of billions at the timeJun 11 21:43
schestowitzBut investors ignored itJun 11 21:43
BoblinuxBuntuBoy: because I can't do school without it :(Jun 11 21:43
wispygalaxyi have school computers for MS specific softwareJun 11 21:43
wispygalaxyyes, i've seeen C accounting appsJun 11 21:43
BuntuBoyBoblinux: Nonsense! most distros I've used are great for schoolwork.Jun 11 21:43
_Mutex_yes, it was a nasty time allround at that time for sureJun 11 21:43
balzacMy favorite topic is how Microsoft is about to fail hard.Jun 11 21:44
BoblinuxI can't even print my stuff :(Jun 11 21:44
wispygalaxyyou'd think a business major like me wouldn't survive under linux, but OO Calc works fine for me.  I don't need Excel.Jun 11 21:44
BoblinuxLast time I buy a canon printer :(Jun 11 21:44
balzacGot any chum for the sharks, schestowitz?Jun 11 21:44
BuntuBoyBoblinux: That's your fault, then! I've never had any problems with my Canon!Jun 11 21:44
BuntuBoyIt Just Works.Jun 11 21:44
schestowitzBalrog:  -socialJun 11 21:44
BoblinuxMine isn't compatible with Linux :(Jun 11 21:44
schestowitz* balzac Jun 11 21:45
balzac-> back to workJun 11 21:45
wispygalaxyhahahaJun 11 21:45
BuntuBoyBoblinux: cupsys?Jun 11 21:45
Boblinuxwhat's that?Jun 11 21:45
wispygalaxylinux hates you, boblinux?  :(Jun 11 21:45
wispygalaxyi've heard of that buntuboyJun 11 21:45
BoblinuxNo, just my crappy printerJun 11 21:45
BuntuBoyBoblinux: the latest Ubuntu has support for most printers.Jun 11 21:45
wispygalaxyoh ok bobJun 11 21:45
BoblinuxI hear HPs are good for linux, is that true?Jun 11 21:46
wispygalaxyoh yeahJun 11 21:46
BoblinuxI'm gonna buy a new compatible webcam tooJun 11 21:46
BuntuBoyCupsys used to have awful issues with HP ones, though.Jun 11 21:46
wispygalaxyi've popped in an ubuntu live CD in my family's HP desktop, the sound and everything workedJun 11 21:46
_Mutex_damn canon, I bought a $2000 canon camera, they said I would get a free carry case, but I had to log on, fill in a web page, Print out that web page, Cut out the bar code on the box that the camera came in and provide a photocopy of the store recept post all that in and wait for them to post you a carry case back !!!Jun 11 21:46
BoblinuxWhat company makes linux compatible webcams?Jun 11 21:46
BuntuBoyColor scan lines all over reports.Jun 11 21:46
BuntuBoyApple, belive it or not.Jun 11 21:46
BuntuBoyThe iSight cam works great with it.Jun 11 21:47
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BuntuBoyLogitech is also comparable.Jun 11 21:47
wispygalaxyi have a web cam built into my laptopJun 11 21:47
BoblinuxSomething other than Apple.Jun 11 21:47
wispygalaxyi like logitech miceJun 11 21:47
wispygalaxythey last longJun 11 21:47
BuntuBoyTheir cameras are pretty okay.Jun 11 21:47
BoblinuxMaybe I'm not trying hard enough :(Jun 11 21:47
wispygalaxyneed a helping hand?Jun 11 21:47
BuntuBoyBoblinux: Obviously.Jun 11 21:47
*schestowitz disagrees with wispygalaxy Jun 11 21:47
Boblinuxis there like a way to find out?Jun 11 21:47
schestowitzMy Logitech mice break fastJun 11 21:47
wispygalaxyomg roy?!Jun 11 21:47
BoblinuxMy cam is no name and has no markingsJun 11 21:47
schestowitzThe cheapo ones last longerJun 11 21:47
_Mutex_Canon EoS 14MP i think it is,Jun 11 21:48
schestowitzSame with shoes. Nike is rubbbish.Jun 11 21:48
BuntuBoyI just have Wal-Mart shoes.Jun 11 21:48
wispygalaxyyou won't believe it, but the paint on my fellowes mouse started to fade away after about a year of using itJun 11 21:48
wispygalaxyi have sketchers shoesJun 11 21:48
BuntuBoyMine have holes all through them.Jun 11 21:48
BuntuBoyGood thing it's summer...Jun 11 21:49
_Mutex_most of the keys on the keyboard im using now are completely blankJun 11 21:49
BuntuBoyBut these non-slip workers shoes lasted like three years.Jun 11 21:49
Balroghi wispygalaxyJun 11 21:49
wispygalaxyhey balrog :DJun 11 21:49
BuntuBoyGood friends?Jun 11 21:49
wispygalaxymy shoes last a long time, im very carefulJun 11 21:49
BuntuBoyI'm not.Jun 11 21:49
wispygalaxyi've known balrog since marchJun 11 21:49
BoblinuxIs Linux the most secure OS in the world?Jun 11 21:49
BuntuBoyI do lots of parkour and free-running.Jun 11 21:49
wispygalaxyhell yeahJun 11 21:49
BalrogBoblinux: it's said that OpenBSD isJun 11 21:50
BoblinuxMy friend just asked, what should I say?Jun 11 21:50
Balrogbut OpenBSD is not easy to configureJun 11 21:50
BuntuBoyJust say yes.Jun 11 21:50
BuntuBoyLinux is WAY better than any BSD.Jun 11 21:50
BoblinuxIsn't openbsd linux?Jun 11 21:50
wispygalaxydebian was much easier than i expectedJun 11 21:50
BuntuBoyBSD is practically dead anyways.Jun 11 21:50
BuntuBoyAwful system.Jun 11 21:50
wispygalaxyi don't know how to hack at allJun 11 21:50
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_Mutex_open bsd is bsdJun 11 21:51
wispygalaxyhey petokraus!Jun 11 21:51
BoblinuxHow is openbsd different?Jun 11 21:51
_Mutex_Linux is GPLv2Jun 11 21:51
BuntuBoyIt's bad.Jun 11 21:51
BoblinuxI thought it was just linux lolJun 11 21:51
wispygalaxybsd licenseJun 11 21:51
_Mutex_GNU is GPLv2 and GPLv3Jun 11 21:51
BuntuBoyThe BSD license is a perversion.Jun 11 21:51
BalrogI wouldn't go as far as to say thatJun 11 21:51
BuntuBoyI believe it, after reading RMS "Free Software, Free Society"Jun 11 21:52
wispygalaxybrb, phone ringingJun 11 21:52
BuntuBoyBSD just gives devs the right to make something proprietary.Jun 11 21:52
_Mutex_BSD license is different to the GPL, does not make it better or worse, just differentJun 11 21:52
Balrogyes, exactlyJun 11 21:52
balzacBuntuBoy is trollingJun 11 21:52
BuntuBoyNot at all.Jun 11 21:52
balzacGNU has a permissive license as wellJun 11 21:52
BalrogGPL is better in most casesJun 11 21:52
Boblinuxlol my friend says Solaris is the most secure OSJun 11 21:52
balzacBalrog: I agreeJun 11 21:52
BuntuBoyI agree.Jun 11 21:52
BuntuBoyNo, Solaris is terribly put together.Jun 11 21:53
balzacbut BuntuBoy choose undiplomatic languageJun 11 21:53
BuntuBoyI'm just giving him advise.Jun 11 21:53
_Mutex_GNU is not a license or i could be wrong, I thought GNU was RMS's HURD and being RMS's i would assume it was GPLdJun 11 21:53
BalrogGNU is the GNU ProjectJun 11 21:53
balzac_Mutex_: what are you referring to?Jun 11 21:53
_Mutex_Solaris is another branch from early UNIX and Minux Linux is another branch.Jun 11 21:54
BuntuBoySolaris has bits of MS Xenix in it...Jun 11 21:54
BalrogMinix != LinuxJun 11 21:54
BalrogBuntuBoy: nopeJun 11 21:54
BalrogI've worked with itJun 11 21:54
BuntuBoySystem V R IV has Xenix in it, though.Jun 11 21:54
_Mutex_balzac said GNU is a permissive license as well , I did not know it was a license at allJun 11 21:54
BuntuBoyAnd SunOS is derived from it.Jun 11 21:54
BalrogGNU _has_ a permissive licenseJun 11 21:54
Balrogi.e. the LGPLJun 11 21:55
balzacnot quiteJun 11 21:55
BuntuBoyIt's all a developer really needs.Jun 11 21:55
balzac21:08 < balzac> GNU has a permissive license as wellJun 11 21:55
balzac*has*Jun 11 21:55
BoblinuxWhat does GNU mean?Jun 11 21:55
balzacGNU projectJun 11 21:55
BuntuBoyGNU's not Unix.Jun 11 21:55
_Mutex_No Minux does not equal linux, but Linux is based on Minux very closly but does not contain ANY original code from Minux as per Linus's letterJun 11 21:55
BuntuBoyMinix is a microkernel, Linux is monolithic.Jun 11 21:55
*edavidburg_ is now known as EDavidBurgJun 11 21:55
BuntuBoyEasier to maintain.Jun 11 21:55
Balrogmeh not reallyJun 11 21:55
Balrogbut I won't argue, it's pointlessJun 11 21:55
BuntuBoyI mean Linux is easier to maintain.Jun 11 21:55
balzacI might have well have said the FSF, but the GPL, LGPL, and AGPL are all GNU-brandedJun 11 21:55
balzacI call them GNU licensesJun 11 21:56
Balrogpeople, know before you speak .......Jun 11 21:56
BuntuBoyDoes anyone even use AGPL anymore?Jun 11 21:56
_Mutex_"guys, im doing a UNIX based on Minux but it will not contain any Minux code, it wont be professional or anything like Gnu"  bad quote from memotyJun 11 21:56
BuntuBoylolJun 11 21:56
balzacBuntuBoy: yesJun 11 21:56
balzacSovixJun 11 21:56
balzacand many other web applicationsJun 11 21:56
BuntuBoyWhat's that?Jun 11 21:56
*BuntuBoy has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")Jun 11 21:57
balzacI suggest you try using the internet to find out ;0)Jun 11 21:57
balzacthe internet is cool and gives access to lots of informationJun 11 21:57
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balzacdarn, he missed my answerJun 11 21:57
_Mutex_the only difference between the microkernal and Macro of Linux is the drivers and bundled code is within the kernal in protected more and not in users space. fundamentally they are the same POSIX-like oss'sJun 11 21:58
BoblinuxIs there anyway I can view my linux drive in windows?Jun 11 21:58
BoblinuxI need my musicJun 11 21:58
DaemonXPLinux can unload or load drivers if they are compiled as modulesJun 11 21:58
DaemonXPthe downside is that it takes longer to load a moduleJun 11 21:58
DaemonXPso the obvious stuff should always be compiled inJun 11 21:59
balzacBoblinux: maybe if you run GNU/Linux virtually on *cough* windows, you can access the drive's contentsJun 11 21:59
DaemonXPand you have to compile in keyboard drivers ;)Jun 11 21:59
balzacwhy don't you stop using Microsoft windows?Jun 11 21:59
balzacspare yourself the headacheJun 11 21:59
BoblinuxBecause I still need itJun 11 21:59
balzacokJun 11 21:59
balzac-> back to workJun 11 21:59
BalrogBoblinux: there's eft2fsd but I'm not responsible if your data goes awayJun 11 22:01
BoblinuxI can't find anything on "eft2fsd"Jun 11 22:02
schestowitzAnyone ever heard of  Digital Design Co?  "develops Linux-based middleware..."  http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssTechMediaTelecomNews/idUST112CMFSW20090611Jun 11 22:03
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DaemonXPKDE has expanded in too many directions, and distros are only making it worseJun 11 22:05
DaemonXPThere's already Konqueror for example, but then they add a bunch of Xulrunner dependencies, which means Firefox is only another 3 megsJun 11 22:05
DaemonXPso now I have two browsers I might not wantJun 11 22:06
DaemonXPand they have to be there even if I use something elseJun 11 22:06
DaemonXPsound familiar?Jun 11 22:06
DaemonXPthe only thing that I feel I'm losing by choosing GNOME is Amarok, which is quite possibly the best media player on LinuxJun 11 22:07
DaemonXPit's obvious Banshee is an attempt to copy itJun 11 22:07
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DaemonXPbut if you use GNOME and bring in Banshee it adds more complication to your system than using GNOME and bringing in AmarokJun 11 22:08
DaemonXPand now that's badJun 11 22:08
schestowitzAmarok is niceJun 11 22:08
schestowitzBut maybe more than I needJun 11 22:09
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schestowitzI could do equally well with xmmsJun 11 22:09
DaemonXPit is, probably the finest app of its classJun 11 22:09
schestowitzSame features where it matters.Jun 11 22:09
DaemonXPand of course it's part of the Clusterfuck DesktopJun 11 22:09
DaemonXP:PJun 11 22:09
schestowitzBut the footprint isn't too bad on this computer, so I use it on othersJun 11 22:09
schestowitzDaemonXP: nopeJun 11 22:09
schestowitzI like KDE and I liked what I saw in KDE4Jun 11 22:09
schestowitz4.1 I thinkJun 11 22:09
balzacMaybe I should try AmarokJun 11 22:09
DaemonXPI've tried Mandriva KDEJun 11 22:09
schestowitz4.2.2?Jun 11 22:10
DaemonXPI'm just not real happy with itJun 11 22:10
DaemonXPyeahJun 11 22:10
balzacI was discriminating against it because of KDEJun 11 22:10
DaemonXPjust nowJun 11 22:10
schestowitzWell, that means it's goodJun 11 22:10
schestowitzDaemon_XP_!!Jun 11 22:10
balzacbut Gnome has really lost the 'moral high-ground' with the Mono trystJun 11 22:10
DaemonXPgave it about an hour, had it set up to where I could live with itJun 11 22:10
schestowitzIt's like Ballmer saying Linux is OKJun 11 22:10
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balzacGnome is getting too fat and lazy, apparentlyJun 11 22:10
schestowitzwb, fewa Jun 11 22:10
DaemonXPKDE is getting worse IMOJun 11 22:10
DaemonXPespecially if you own a recent NVidia cardJun 11 22:11
schestowitzThe edits in Wikipedia in ODF have neen better recentlyJun 11 22:11
balzacI don't doubt that, but I might try AmarokJun 11 22:11
DaemonXPKWin likes to freeze and do bad thingsJun 11 22:11
schestowitzGL and Weir scared the shills awayJun 11 22:11
DaemonXPstill too buggy on NvidiaJun 11 22:11
DaemonXPMandriva will let you use Compiz with KDE thoughJun 11 22:11
schestowitzSame in 2008.1Jun 11 22:11
DaemonXPso you have redundant compositing managers too :PJun 11 22:11
*schestowitz uses 2008.1 with Compiz in KDE 3.5.9Jun 11 22:11
balzacsongbird is pretty goodJun 11 22:12
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balzacI'll check out Amarok, because I'm over the Gnome/KDE squabbleJun 11 22:12
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DaemonXPwell, for some reason Mandriva was conned into using Beagle Desktop SearchJun 11 22:12
trmancohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_UyVmITiYQJun 11 22:12
DaemonXPlike SuseJun 11 22:13
MinceRso am i, i guessJun 11 22:13
*MinceR mixes gnome and kdeJun 11 22:13
DaemonXPTracker is a better indexing serviceJun 11 22:13
DaemonXPwhy the hell do they insist on Beagle?Jun 11 22:13
balzacI have konquerorJun 11 22:13
balzacas well as conkerorJun 11 22:14
balzaci prefer conkerorJun 11 22:14
DaemonXPMandriva has been sending me couponsJun 11 22:14
DaemonXPdiscounts if I want a box setJun 11 22:14
schestowitzWe have folks from http://ubuntuforums.org/group.php?groupid=408Jun 11 22:14
DaemonXPI might use the 10% off one for Mandriva FlashJun 11 22:15
DaemonXPthat could prove usefulJun 11 22:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT bengoldacre Scientists rape the moon: that's not nice http://tr.im/obkrJun 11 22:15
schestowitzMicrosoft hopes to starve Mandriva before MS goes out of conrol (or business)Jun 11 22:15
DaemonXPMandriva tends to be hugely overlookedJun 11 22:16
DaemonXPin the US at leastJun 11 22:16
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DaemonXPif you see anything in use in schools or libraries that's not Windows, it's Fedora or OpenSuseJun 11 22:16
MinceRi don't hear a lot about mandriva eitherJun 11 22:16
DaemonXPor some customized spinoffJun 11 22:16
Papa_Changohttp://identi.ca/notice/5161920  Berners-Lee twittered: 'Agreed to advise UK govt about open data. Grass roots momentum + enthusiasm from the top + linked open data standards'Jun 11 22:17
DaemonXPI did get a look at those systems in the computer lab and library at my brother's schoolJun 11 22:17
DaemonXPcustomized Fedora using terminal miltiplexingJun 11 22:17
DaemonXP*multiplexingJun 11 22:17
DaemonXP1 box with 10 headsJun 11 22:17
DaemonXPprobably saved them a fortune on electricity over Windows PCsJun 11 22:18
balzacsureJun 11 22:18
EDavidBurgschestowitz: that was fastJun 11 22:18
EDavidBurgfwiw, I told them not to join...Jun 11 22:18
maxbaldwinHe's lying. He told everyone to get in here to discuss.Jun 11 22:19
DaemonXPI've never seen Microsoft do a 10-headed PCJun 11 22:19
DaemonXPthey usually just give the school 10 PCsJun 11 22:19
NullheadI heard there was loldongs here.Jun 11 22:19
balzacAfter Microsoft is drastically down-sized, I'm going to smoke a marijuana cigarJun 11 22:19
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balzacBecause the market will be wide open for upstart companiesJun 11 22:20
DaemonXPhmmmJun 11 22:20
DaemonXPjust don't do it in IndianaJun 11 22:20
DaemonXP1 year prison $5,000 fineJun 11 22:20
DaemonXPif less than an ounceJun 11 22:21
balzacMy godJun 11 22:21
*maxbaldwin (n=max@unaffiliated/maxbaldwin) has left #boycottnovell ("that shit now")Jun 11 22:21
DaemonXPif over, it's a felonyJun 11 22:21
DaemonXPcould become 5-10 yearsJun 11 22:21
balzacIndiana needs to get a reality checkJun 11 22:21
balzacI'd go "cape fear" if I got a year for a joint.Jun 11 22:21
DaemonXPthat's if you get caughtJun 11 22:22
balzacI loathe the drug-policy hypocritesJun 11 22:22
DaemonXPso far so goodJun 11 22:22
DaemonXP:PJun 11 22:22
balzacThey are no better than the StaziJun 11 22:22
balzacThey are unamerican freedom hatersJun 11 22:22
DaemonXPyeah, the only thing you can have are alcohol and tobaccoJun 11 22:22
balzacI'll never forgive the scumbag politicians who persecute marijuana usersJun 11 22:23
DaemonXPwhich actually cause death and bad healthJun 11 22:23
DaemonXP:PJun 11 22:23
DaemonXPbut the taxes boss, the taxes!!!Jun 11 22:23
DaemonXP:PJun 11 22:23
DaemonXPit's all about taxes and controlJun 11 22:24
DaemonXPwhen you smoke or drink, you hurt yourself and others and it leads to profit for the hospitals and drug companiesJun 11 22:24
DaemonXPand you paid taxes, so the government is happy tooJun 11 22:25
MinceRactually, freedom hating is pretty american nowadays :>Jun 11 22:25
DaemonXPwhen you smoke pot, it doesn't hurt you and you can use it instead of dangerous prescriptionsJun 11 22:25
DaemonXPso the industry has the govt outlaw itJun 11 22:25
balzacnowadecades, you mean?Jun 11 22:25
DaemonXPand since it's outlawed, they can't collect taxesJun 11 22:25
DaemonXPso they hit you for tax evasion tooJun 11 22:25
balzacI want anti-drug hypocrites to be forced to smoke marijuanaJun 11 22:25
MinceRyes, nowadecades :)Jun 11 22:25
balzacuntil they can comprehend how they shouldn't try to impose their will on others over minor choices in lifeJun 11 22:26
balzacI'd make them smoke like Rastafarians smokeJun 11 22:26
DaemonXPIn Indiana, you commit two offenses when you are caught with an ounce of marijuana, Class A Misdemeanor for posession, and Class D Felony for tax evasionJun 11 22:26
balzacchop that weed with a machete, roll it into fat spliff, zombie bud that leaves them red-eyed and speechlessJun 11 22:27
DaemonXPthe law says you have to buy tax stamps and affix them to the bag of marijuana you haveJun 11 22:27
DaemonXPonly they don't make the stampsJun 11 22:27
DaemonXPand it's still illegal to have the marijuanaJun 11 22:27
MinceRlolJun 11 22:27
balzacIndiana has some rotten politiciansJun 11 22:27
DaemonXPwe doJun 11 22:27
balzacwho is at fault for these drug laws?Jun 11 22:27
MinceRthere are rotten politicians pretty much everywhereJun 11 22:27
balzacyepJun 11 22:27
DaemonXPMitch Daniels is the governor, he was Bush's appointment to the Office of Management and BudgetJun 11 22:27
DaemonXPhe's good at telling lies and hiding under his deskJun 11 22:28
*benjiman is now known as benJImanJun 11 22:28
balzacscumJun 11 22:28
DaemonXPOffice of Mismanagement and Crack PartiesJun 11 22:28
balzaca Bush-appointee must be the lowest scumJun 11 22:28
DaemonXPis more like what went on thereJun 11 22:28
DaemonXPunder Bush's tenureJun 11 22:28
DaemonXPseriosuly, the Interior Dept had CRACK PARTIESJun 11 22:28
DaemonXPwith prostitutesJun 11 22:29
balzacBush was the worst pResident, the most un-american in my life, probably ever.Jun 11 22:29
DaemonXPin the office at nightJun 11 22:29
DaemonXPpaid for by oil lobbyistsJun 11 22:29
_Mutex_not TWO term president Bush !!!  :)Jun 11 22:29
balzacI'm surprised it was meth and crackJun 11 22:29
DaemonXPoh yeah, that's the oneJun 11 22:29
DaemonXPI voted for John KerryJun 11 22:29
balzacTwo election-stealing Resident BushJun 11 22:29
DaemonXPjust so we're clearJun 11 22:29
DaemonXP:PJun 11 22:29
balzacme tooJun 11 22:29
_Mutex_the world looks at bush and they say, WHY 2 terms !!! :)Jun 11 22:30
DaemonXPI don't knowJun 11 22:30
DaemonXPI think they need to look closer to homeJun 11 22:30
balzacBush who deserves life in prisonJun 11 22:30
DaemonXPto their officials who are effectivey the errand boys to the American governmentJun 11 22:30
DaemonXPand ask why they have those guys in officeJun 11 22:30
balzac_Mutex_: look at the Bush family, why two presidents, two governors?Jun 11 22:31
_Mutex_why the great nation of the US of A cant work that out in his first term is beyond me, (hanging chads pffft)Jun 11 22:31
balzacthe grandfather was busted for dealings with NazisJun 11 22:31
DaemonXPvoting fraud and apathyJun 11 22:31
balzacoh well...Jun 11 22:31
balzacThey're out of office but they're anti-American, "Christian-Taliban" laws remain.Jun 11 22:32
DaemonXPnone of the politicians in office worry about pissing off people my ageJun 11 22:32
_Mutex_Bush "I had business deals with Bin Ladin" but now im pres so your a baddieJun 11 22:32
DaemonXPcause most of us don't voteJun 11 22:32
balzacAnd when i have a headache, I can't get marijuana from a vending machine as I should be able to.Jun 11 22:32
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DaemonXPthen these old people get to the polls and demand more free shitJun 11 22:32
DaemonXPand the government rapes me and steals my money to give to themJun 11 22:32
balzacIt makes me stomping mad. I want to stomp on their lexus'.Jun 11 22:33
balzacwhizz into their convertible luxury carsJun 11 22:33
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWgUup7D99I "This video contains an audio track that has not been authorised by WMG. The audio has been disabled. More about copyright"Jun 11 22:33
schestowitzThe copyrights zealotsJun 11 22:33
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DaemonXPyeahJun 11 22:33
DaemonXPthey do that on some of the rick rolls tooJun 11 22:34
schestowitzThey ruined the video to 'protect' some little segment of musicJun 11 22:34
DaemonXPwho knew the RIAA had taste?Jun 11 22:34
_Mutex_yes, I sometimes wonder what nice things a country could buy with 10 Billion dollars per month for 10 years, rather than spend it on military in the mid east !!Jun 11 22:34
balzac_Mutex_: an education for the children of these 10s of millions of cretins who voted for BushJun 11 22:34
balzacIt's a travesty that these people can be so ignorant of science and historyJun 11 22:35
balzacThey must be educated before their descendents destroy America and the environmentJun 11 22:35
_Mutex_yes, or a good medical systems, or cancer research, or a few super computers,Jun 11 22:35
balzacEducation underlies all the other good aspects of society - medicine, engineering, information technologyJun 11 22:36
_Mutex_oh yea, education is the keyJun 11 22:36
balzacThese savages need educationJun 11 22:36
DaemonXPyeah, they're only worried about whether they keep getting to go to the doctor for freeJun 11 22:36
DaemonXPwhile I pay for itJun 11 22:36
DaemonXPand have no insurance for myselfJun 11 22:36
_Hicham_DaemonXP is confirming that he is a drifterJun 11 22:37
balzacBush voters are savages, in my opinionJun 11 22:37
DaemonXPthat's the generation that gave us Bush twiceJun 11 22:37
_Mutex_LOLJun 11 22:37
_Hicham_how comes that u have no insurance?Jun 11 22:37
_Mutex_more than twiceJun 11 22:37
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DaemonXPif you aren't on a group plan, you get fuckedJun 11 22:37
Papa_ChangoBalzac: ALL US parties are on the same page for the WOMarijuana so they are equally responsible.Jun 11 22:37
Papa_Chango THe last democrats are the one who militarized it (General Mcaffrey), started busting dying patients and doubled the arrests per year to the current 750,000 a year level.Jun 11 22:37
DaemonXPyou have $400 a month you want to give me?Jun 11 22:37
balzacWOMarijuana?Jun 11 22:37
balzacwtf is that?Jun 11 22:37
balzacwar on?Jun 11 22:38
Papa_ChangoWOD is really the War On MarijuanaJun 11 22:38
balzacokJun 11 22:38
_Hicham_though u are an experienced programmer, u can't afford to pay $400/month?Jun 11 22:38
balzacyeah, General Mcaffrey, the Butcher of Gulf War IJun 11 22:38
balzaca man with no honorJun 11 22:38
_Mutex_having said that I made a huge amount of money from the US and Australia military in teh middle each and pakistanJun 11 22:38
_Mutex_HUGE money !!!! :)Jun 11 22:39
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schestowitzMurduch is coming apart... More Layoffs Expected At MySpace < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/06/11/more-layoffs-expected-at-myspace >Jun 11 22:39
balzachell yesJun 11 22:39
balzacMurdoch is despicableJun 11 22:39
balzacAustralia's worst exportJun 11 22:39
schestowitzNext: Faux?Jun 11 22:39
DaemonXPFixed Noise Channel?Jun 11 22:39
DaemonXP:)Jun 11 22:40
balzacMurdoch's son and trophy wife probably pray for him to kick the bucketJun 11 22:40
_Mutex_he was an australian, we gave him away to you,,  sorry bout that chiefJun 11 22:40
balzacthe world loathes rupert murdochJun 11 22:40
schestowitzMaybe they'll demote BillO to floor sweeper and GlennB to dustbin holderJun 11 22:40
schestowitzThere's a good pairing right thereJun 11 22:40
schestowitzPut to better use :-)Jun 11 22:40
balzacThey should be put on an islandJun 11 22:41
balzacwith no one but each otherJun 11 22:41
Papa_ChangoRoy: how strong do you think the opposition will be to Tim Berners lee if he pushes open data standards in UK gov? does his status make him bulletproof ?Jun 11 22:41
_Mutex_wait, if Murdoch falls apart, he might come back here !!! EeeekkJun 11 22:41
balzacPapa_Chango: he'll be mocked by Microsoft toadiesJun 11 22:42
balzaccorporate shills will slime himJun 11 22:42
balzac_Mutex_: greet him at the airport with a back-handed slapJun 11 22:42
taconeschestowitz: slowly starting https://launchpad.net/monononoJun 11 22:42
Papa_Changoim sure they will and I expect it but Im curious, will they be able to because of who he is?Jun 11 22:43
taconeschestowitz: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mononono/+bugsJun 11 22:43
_Mutex_if he is "who he is " as you say, most probably he wont wont to spend that cred on something that umm,, is not really politically valuable for him.Jun 11 22:44
balzacBush's favorite General, what's his name has named his horses "Shock and Awe"Jun 11 22:44
DaemonXPPetraeus?Jun 11 22:45
balzacno, the first guyJun 11 22:45
balzacTommy FranksJun 11 22:45
DaemonXPGeneral BetrayusJun 11 22:45
DaemonXP;)Jun 11 22:45
_Mutex_powell?Jun 11 22:46
_Mutex_however its speltJun 11 22:46
DaemonXPuhhhmJun 11 22:46
balzacDaemonXP: Petraeus may turn out alright.Jun 11 22:46
DaemonXPwell, I don't know what to make of him (Colin Powell)Jun 11 22:46
balzacColin Powell shook that little vial which allegedly contained some irrefutable evidenceJun 11 22:47
balzacHe'll never recover his honor from that.Jun 11 22:47
DaemonXPhe also endorsed Obama over McCain laterJun 11 22:47
balzacyeah, but neverthelessJun 11 22:47
DaemonXPthat's odd don't you think?Jun 11 22:47
balzache "posterized" himself, jiggling that little vial at the UN meetingJun 11 22:47
_Mutex_not qute, he said "a vial this size"  not THIS vileJun 11 22:47
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wispygalaxyhi again, i accidentally quitJun 11 22:48
balzacHe's Bush's man-servant for historyJun 11 22:48
balzacGenerals aren't supposed to have remorse, in theory.Jun 11 22:49
DaemonXPschestowitz: Mandriva GNOME is pretty clean/efficientJun 11 22:49
DaemonXPKDE version is "What the fuck"Jun 11 22:49
balzacBut to serve as propagandists...Jun 11 22:49
_Mutex_powell at that meeting did say they had confirmed INTEL that sadam had tonnes of it, that amazingly never appeardJun 11 22:49
balzacPowell is never going to live it down.Jun 11 22:49
balzacBush betrayed American national security, and Powell was his PR clown.Jun 11 22:50
_Mutex_because it was a flat out lie,Jun 11 22:50
_Mutex_to the UNJun 11 22:50
balzacno kiddingJun 11 22:50
wispygalaxyhe's just going to blame bush for all what happened and take no responsibilityJun 11 22:50
ThistleWebwith any of these statements, it boils down to "what ya gonna do about it?" when they're exposed as bullshitJun 11 22:50
balzache should be about as welcome in the world as Henry KissingerJun 11 22:50
ThistleWebif the bullshitters are in the position of doing what they want with no consiquences, they willJun 11 22:50
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balzacThe problem is that activists have been all not for profit. You can't displace the ugliest corporations if you're non-profit.Jun 11 22:52
schestowitzIDG still seed many anti-FOSS posts: rebuttal: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090606/0653155150.shtmlJun 11 22:52
schestowitztacone: excellentJun 11 22:52
schestowitzwispygalaxy: wbJun 11 22:52
balzacHow about this: Capital-activismJun 11 22:52
schestowitzLong call that wasJun 11 22:52
_Mutex_bush's total disregard for anything even remotely like conventions of war will be his legacy,  the make it up as we go along leaderJun 11 22:52
balzacfor profit activismJun 11 22:52
wispygalaxyhey roy!Jun 11 22:52
wispygalaxyi was just on COLAJun 11 22:52
schestowitzPapa_Chango: timbl is influential. But there's the likes of Newham in his way.Jun 11 22:53
balzacHopefully Bush will spend his final years in prisonJun 11 22:53
schestowitzThey use IEJun 11 22:53
wispygalaxyewwwwwJun 11 22:53
schestowitzThey hate BN :-)Jun 11 22:53
ThistleWebtada!!! CAPITAL ACTIVISM, prob solved with judicious use of the caps lock keyJun 11 22:53
schestowitzUsing IE means hatred for the webJun 11 22:53
schestowitztimbl dinnounced IE in oublicJun 11 22:53
schestowitzFor not supporting SVG, for startersJun 11 22:53
wispygalaxyi have portable firefox for whenever there's no IE on a computerJun 11 22:53
wispygalaxyluckily, the school computers have firefoxJun 11 22:53
balzacThe best "Capitalactivist" has got to be George SorosJun 11 22:54
wispygalaxy*no firefoxJun 11 22:54
schestowitzms: wtf is timbl? we owns teh webs now. activex ftw! Jun 11 22:54
wispygalaxybrb in 3 minutes, sryJun 11 22:54
balzacThistleWeb: I just got your joke ;-)Jun 11 22:54
schestowitzBalrog: which Bush? :-)Jun 11 22:54
_Mutex_how can someone who uses FOSS be a "free loader" ?Jun 11 22:54
schestowitz* balzac Jun 11 22:55
Papa_ChangoIf you put Bush in jail, you would have to do it for all the criminals before and after. Clinton bombed twice as many countries as Shrub.Jun 11 22:55
balzacJuniorJun 11 22:55
balzacPapa_Chango: Clinton's death toll was much less.Jun 11 22:55
ThistleWebbalzac: sometimes my jokes take a bit of time to hit, other times they fall flat, I'm used to being hit-and-missJun 11 22:55
schestowitz_Mutex_: in MS universe there has to be something wrong with FOSSJun 11 22:55
schestowitzAnd fake fightsJun 11 22:55
schestowitzThe illusion of disagreement and loathing in FOSSJun 11 22:56
Papa_ChangoA war crime is a war crime, it does not depend on death tolls.Jun 11 22:56
_Hicham_MS is compatible with FOSSJun 11 22:56
schestowitzAs if it's all burned and fragmentedJun 11 22:56
balzacPapa_Chango: you could make an exception of BushJun 11 22:56
schestowitzMSFTer was the source of this latest FUDJun 11 22:56
_Hicham_Microsoft has a multitude of LicensesJun 11 22:56
schestowitzI think IDG pushed it to /.Jun 11 22:56
_Hicham_including MSPLJun 11 22:56
_Mutex_as does FOSSJun 11 22:56
_Hicham_MSPL is GPL compatibleJun 11 22:56
schestowitzMSGPlJun 11 22:56
schestowitzThat sounds similar to GPLJun 11 22:56
schestowitzSo it's probably the smaeJun 11 22:57
_Hicham_what do u want more?Jun 11 22:57
schestowitzShared source sounds like Open sourceJun 11 22:57
_Hicham_they have the shared code licenseJun 11 22:57
schestowitzOffice Open XML sounds like OpenOIfficeJun 11 22:57
schestowitzProbably the same thenJun 11 22:57
_Mutex_collaborative softwareJun 11 22:57
schestowitz:-)Jun 11 22:57
_Hicham_yes, shared is better than no sourceJun 11 22:57
schestowitzEmbrace, extends..Jun 11 22:57
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ThistleWebit'd be interesting to put together a presentation slides with side by side open formats / products etc next to the MS soundalike equivelantsJun 11 22:58
schestowitzSaturate and diffuseJun 11 22:58
ThistleWebto show the patternJun 11 22:58
schestowitzit's intentionalJun 11 22:58
_Mutex_what good is the right to view the source code for a non-programmer ?Jun 11 22:58
schestowitzMany other names like thatJun 11 22:58
schestowitzPalm controversy..Jun 11 22:58
ThistleWebyou'd think Palm would be a natural partner for porn distributors eh?Jun 11 22:59
Papa_ChangoMS-PL is NOT compatible with GPL and dont kid yourself, this was not by accident.Jun 11 22:59
schestowitzThere are many 'alliances' in the FOSS world, like this one: http://www.idevnews.com/IntegrationNews.asp?ID=904Jun 11 22:59
schestowitzUsually little comes out of them apaet from a press rleeaseJun 11 22:59
balzac_Mutex_: it gives one the opportunity to compile on your own machineJun 11 22:59
balzacit's fundamental to securityJun 11 22:59
schestowitzThistleWeb: yes, Kleenex tooJun 11 23:00
balzaceven if you're not a programmer, you can have programs which audit your code before compilingJun 11 23:00
schestowitzPapa_Chango: yes, of courseJun 11 23:00
_Mutex_yes it does, but if y our a non-programmer, its not lickly that you will need or want or be able to do thatJun 11 23:00
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balzacyou might want features which do thatJun 11 23:00
balzacyou might prefer an OS which has that transparency for the trustJun 11 23:01
balzacalso you want licenses you can trustJun 11 23:01
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_Mutex_I license you can trust but it has in BIG writing that there is NO responsibilty implied or in this product or however its worded, basically saying if its screws up bad luck.Jun 11 23:02
_Mutex_reading that does not instill trust in the average person.Jun 11 23:03
schestowitzWhy would Citrixsoft touch Linux? http://www.von.com/news/citrix-open-source-network-vendor-vyatta.htmlJun 11 23:04
schestowitzI don't get the idea hereJun 11 23:04
schestowitzWith Xen they could screw Linux and promote WindowsJun 11 23:04
schestowitzWhich they didJun 11 23:04
schestowitzBut what can they do to VyattaJun 11 23:04
schestowitz?Jun 11 23:04
schestowitzIt's a distroJun 11 23:04
Papa_ChangoLinux Netbook has Norton 360 antivirus option for only £59.99. Quick before they sell out!!!Jun 11 23:04
Papa_Changohttp://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-06-11-026-35-NW-DTJun 11 23:04
schestowitzw00tJun 11 23:05
_Mutex_norton, what, who in their right mind would EVER touch norton, the single worst POS software ever created.Jun 11 23:05
schestowitzDoes it run Ok under wine?Jun 11 23:05
_Mutex_AVGFree, no overhead, almost zero fingerprint, works in background, you forget its there, and its free.Jun 11 23:06
wispygalaxyi'm back again! :)Jun 11 23:09
ThistleWebI sometimes wonder if newbies to Linux think "does it run with Wine" means"does it run when you're drunk" and think WTF?Jun 11 23:09
wispygalaxyhahaJun 11 23:09
wispygalaxytype it as WINE maybe to prevent confusionJun 11 23:10
ThistleWebyeah, although that could be seen as a drunken shoutJun 11 23:10
ThistleWeblolJun 11 23:10
wispygalaxyXDJun 11 23:10
ThistleWebthen "free as in beer"Jun 11 23:10
wispygalaxyi thought wine was more sophisticated than that lolJun 11 23:10
schestowitzAt HP, GNU/Linux is $50 cheaper than Windows: http://ping.fm/VaRAaJun 11 23:10
ThistleWebkinda focuses on the alcahol ellementsJun 11 23:10
wispygalaxyyes lolJun 11 23:11
wispygalaxylinux makes things less expensive, we can agreeJun 11 23:11
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_Mutex_I wish they drop the "free as in beer" line, for a start its wrong, second, I want some free beer plsJun 11 23:12
wispygalaxygo to any college party :PJun 11 23:12
_Mutex_the original line was something like "free as in freedom, NOT free as in Beer", which only makes slightly more sense than before but not much.Jun 11 23:13
wispygalaxyi heard that oneJun 11 23:13
_Mutex_college beer might be free to me if I smooch it, but someone has to pay for it,Jun 11 23:14
_Mutex_wispy its a RMS quite i believeJun 11 23:14
_Mutex_probably badly mangled by meJun 11 23:14
wispygalaxyi got the jist of it ;)Jun 11 23:14
wispygalaxyRMS said a lot of profound thingsJun 11 23:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux progress in Cuba http://ping.fm/HL07RJun 11 23:15
schestowitz_Mutex_: does RMS drink?Jun 11 23:15
schestowitzGenuine curiousityJun 11 23:15
schestowitz[alcoholic beverages]Jun 11 23:15
ThistleWebschestowitz: I get the feeling he dontJun 11 23:15
_Mutex_he's also said a few quite marginal things, as has Linus,Jun 11 23:15
schestowitzI think he emphasised free as in free speech]Jun 11 23:16
_Mutex_I have no idea,Jun 11 23:16
schestowitzNot sure about the beer as muchJun 11 23:16
schestowitzMS coined "no free lunch" I thinkJun 11 23:16
schestowitzIn this context that isJun 11 23:16
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MryoJun 11 23:16
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wispygalaxyhi thereJun 11 23:16
_Mutex_im not sure of the etomology of "a free lunch"Jun 11 23:16
schestowitzHey MisterJun 11 23:16
wispygalaxyit's an old economics jokeJun 11 23:17
schestowitzMaybe Wikipedia has the link to the genesis of the termJun 11 23:17
wispygalaxyi was told that joke the first day of AP EconomicsJun 11 23:17
schestowitzAnother is "belt and braces exercise"Jun 11 23:17
schestowitzMy fellow researchers say "free lunch"Jun 11 23:17
schestowitzBut in a different contextJun 11 23:18
schestowitzDerivation of proofs and suchJun 11 23:18
wispygalaxyah i seeJun 11 23:18
schestowitzIt's not a FOSS slur exclusiveklyJun 11 23:18
schestowitzIBM eyes opportunity in G2009 failure < http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=C5C40647-1A64-6A71-CEDACCB75161A597 >Jun 11 23:18
wispygalaxyyeah, i hear it in other contextsJun 11 23:18
schestowitzDown goes one nasty, in comes the older oneJun 11 23:18
schestowitzSmelliing taxpayers' cashJun 11 23:18
schestowitz*snifff sniff*Jun 11 23:19
wispygalaxyhands off!Jun 11 23:19
wispygalaxyheheJun 11 23:19
_Mutex_Free lunch from  U.S litiature from the 1870's, refers to a tradition once found in saloons, that promoted a "Free lunch" as long as you purchase at lease 1 drinkJun 11 23:19
schestowitzSo which company will citizens be sold to?Jun 11 23:19
_Mutex_So there WAS such a thing as a free lunchJun 11 23:19
wispygalaxyi can't believe GM was sold to the govt.Jun 11 23:19
schestowitzRather tha NZ giving the contracts to locals with FOSSJun 11 23:19
schestowitzIBM and MS have coloniesJun 11 23:19
schestowitzThey have things called MS NZJun 11 23:19
wispygalaxyargh, someone's calling me again.  brbJun 11 23:19
schestowitzAnd they'll pretend they are part of the demographyJun 11 23:19
schestowitzLike, "hey! We're local. Really!"Jun 11 23:20
schestowitzThat's how they also get to write policyJun 11 23:20
schestowitzzoobab01 knowsJun 11 23:20
_Mutex_MS has branches in lots of countries, as does LinuxJun 11 23:20
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ThistleWeboh, schestowitz I emailed tesco about the windows policy, and got a responseJun 11 23:20
schestowitzwispygalaxy a busy lady today.. :-|Jun 11 23:20
wispygalaxyglocalization i thinkJun 11 23:20
ThistleWeb"I'm concerned to learn that you feel the information in our Spring/Summer Tesco Direct catalogue regarding the Windows Vista is there due to endorsement money paid to Tesco from Microsoft."Jun 11 23:20
wispygalaxyyes i am!Jun 11 23:20
wispygalaxyi've been catching up on emailJun 11 23:21
schestowitzThistleWeb: can you forward me that?Jun 11 23:21
schestowitzPlsJun 11 23:21
schestowitzroy @ myname .comJun 11 23:21
ThistleWebon condition that you mask my email addressJun 11 23:21
schestowitzSureJun 11 23:22
schestowitzI always doJun 11 23:22
schestowitzthe Coop Marketing thing of MS needs to be public knowledgeJun 11 23:22
schestowitzWith proof, not just speculationsJun 11 23:22
_Mutex_proof is great, speculations are suspect :)Jun 11 23:22
wispygalaxyhey, who doesn't like to gossip at times...Jun 11 23:23
wispygalaxy:PJun 11 23:23
_Mutex_LOL,Jun 11 23:23
schestowitzwispygalaxy: in the news: http://linuxmednews.com/1244380659 (New Jersey to make open source EMRs illegal)Jun 11 23:23
schestowitzNovatech UK is filled with MS ad garbageJun 11 23:24
schestowitzBut they sell with Linux or no OSJun 11 23:24
wispygalaxythanks for the link, royJun 11 23:24
schestowitzThey just need the MS money they get from pretending EveryoneLovesWindowsJun 11 23:24
schestowitz"People everywhere love Windows." -- Bill GatesJun 11 23:24
schestowitzI wonder how he knewJun 11 23:24
schestowitzPeople don't choose WindowsJun 11 23:24
schestowitzThe OEMs 'choose' FOR themJun 11 23:24
wispygalaxynot me, that's for sureJun 11 23:25
MinceRhe told them toJun 11 23:25
wispygalaxywhat a bullyJun 11 23:25
ThistleWebsent to roy@myname.com ? not boycottnovell?Jun 11 23:25
schestowitzOhJun 11 23:25
wispygalaxyroy has a personal emailJun 11 23:25
schestowitzmy surnameJun 11 23:25
ThistleWebgotchatJun 11 23:25
wispygalaxyi have no trouble spelling itJun 11 23:25
ThistleWebwas confuzled thereJun 11 23:25
wispygalaxythat's a new term for me hahaJun 11 23:25
ThistleWebschestowitz: it should be sent ok nowJun 11 23:28
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schestowitz@schestowitz.com ? Not there yetJun 11 23:30
ThistleWebyesJun 11 23:32
ThistleWebit bouncedJun 11 23:32
ThistleWebhang onJun 11 23:32
ThistleWebapparently a forwarded email is a "potentially exectutable attachment"Jun 11 23:33
schestowitzThe pro-Microsoft Gavin Clarke on Microvell: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/11/microsoft_novell_recessionary_claims/Jun 11 23:34
ThistleWebsent againJun 11 23:34
schestowitzTry it inlineJun 11 23:35
ThistleWebFFSJun 11 23:35
_Mutex_get roy to send you an email, and reply to itJun 11 23:35
schestowitzI'd post it tomorrow with contextJun 11 23:35
ThistleWebI'll copy it en masse in plain textJun 11 23:35
schestowitzMicrosoft Windows zombies killed mailJun 11 23:35
schestowitzIn the past, filters were not requiredJun 11 23:35
schestowitzNow over 90% of E-mail is spewed from winzombiesJun 11 23:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Inquirer seems dead today and it has been sporadic for weeks/months. Maybe it's terminal. :-(Jun 11 23:40
ThistleWebschestowitz: with a bit of luck you should get it this timeJun 11 23:42
wispygalaxysee ya guys, i have to eat dinnerJun 11 23:42
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wispygalaxytake care for now, roy!  xxJun 11 23:43
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schestowitzMozilla Firefox 3.0.11 Released http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/37296Jun 11 23:45
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schestowitzThistleWeb: excellent, got IT!Jun 11 23:45
ThistleWebcoolJun 11 23:45
ThistleWebI dont have any need to forward emails so I never really learned howJun 11 23:46
ThistleWebif I get any updates I'll let you knowJun 11 23:46
schestowitzI might as well not hide Tesco as a partyJun 11 23:46
schestowitzThey are a big businessJun 11 23:46
schestowitzIn other leaks we needed to hide shop identitiesJun 11 23:46
schestowitzBefore filtering better I was getting thousands of spam/dayJun 11 23:47
_Mutex_did the email contain any non-distribute or re-use warning ? alot of business do that these daysJun 11 23:49
ThistleWeb_Mutex_: nopeJun 11 23:49
ThistleWebsurprisinglyJun 11 23:49
_Mutex_yes, surprisingJun 11 23:49
schestowitzI sort of agreed with Asay that there's no point giving Novell attention in relation to their PR junkJun 11 23:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft/Novell are not telling the whole story. Why is PR being forwarded as news? http://ping.fm/BY7hDJun 11 23:50
*Disconnected (Connection reset by peer).Jun 11 23:51
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 11 23:51:41 2009
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 11 23:52:21 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovellJun 11 23:52
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: "Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications" [publicly logged]Jun 11 23:52
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Fri May 22 21:43:08 2009Jun 11 23:52
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelJun 11 23:52
schestowitzHmph... http://arstechnica.com/open-source/reviews/2009/06/hands-on-new-fedora-release-goes-up-to-11-but-doesnt-rock.arsJun 11 23:52
schestowitz_Mutex_: none that I can seeJun 11 23:53
schestowitzWeird that I fell off freenode for a second there. very rare...Jun 11 23:54
*starcannon (n=starcann@207-118-109-40.dyn.centurytel.net) has joined #boycottnovellJun 11 23:54
starcannonHi everyoneJun 11 23:54
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzJun 11 23:54
schestowitzWelcome, starcannon Jun 11 23:54
*mtnd3w has quit ("Leaving")Jun 11 23:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz a friend's started writing for el Reg instead. they seduced and corrupted him by offering payment.Jun 11 23:55
starcannonHiya SchestowitzJun 11 23:56
starcannonjust read some of your articles that you linked from fsdaily, some good stuffJun 11 23:56
schestowitzThat Fink guy gives us a bad name... http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/01/banning-opposition-to-mono/comment-page-1/#comment-66024Jun 11 23:58
schestowitzAnd he previously confronted Mark S tooJun 11 23:58
schestowitzI hope people don't associated us with foul-mouthed ones who link to us..Jun 11 23:59
schestowitzstarcannon: thanksJun 11 23:59
schestowitzSome evil people modbomb against usJun 11 23:59
schestowitzThey try to shut us upJun 11 23:59
schestowitzAnd spoil sites like fsdaily in the process, sadlyJun 11 23:59

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