IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 28th, 2009

yuhongIt is easier to hack on.Jun 28 00:00
yuhongLess malware.Jun 28 00:00
_Goblinah...Jun 28 00:00
yuhongThere are many advantages I know of.Jun 28 00:00
_Goblinis that hack in a coding sense or "hack" in the naughty sense?Jun 28 00:00
yuhongcoding, yep that is a common confusion.Jun 28 00:00
fewaschestowitz, that netbook distrobution looks goodJun 28 00:00
_Goblinno its not yuhong, it just depends which platform you use.Jun 28 00:01
yuhongI would have said it is faster hadn't the Vista install be an OEM preload.Jun 28 00:01
schestowitzfewa: yes, it's still in alpha but well designedJun 28 00:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] An OLPC Story from the United States Too 28 00:02
twitterneutrality if the face of obvious evil is cowardice -> (04:17:06 PM) tacone: neutrality is goodJun 28 00:02
_GoblinSo you are trying to say then that its easier to code on linux than use the plethora of high/low level environments of Windows?Jun 28 00:02
yuhongWhat, are you referring to "hacker"?Jun 28 00:02
schestowitzWith Android gaining ground and with ARM, there's lots of good stuff to comeJun 28 00:02
schestowitzVista 7 IS too heavy for netbooksJun 28 00:02
yuhongI am talking about open source.Jun 28 00:02
schestowitzNot only SJVN showed itJun 28 00:02
schestowitzAlex Reutt the MS fanboi said so tooJun 28 00:02
schestowitzThey made it fatter in RC (maybe put on the weight... DRM and other 'goodies')Jun 28 00:02
_GoblinSo what does Open Source on a Linux platform give you that open source on Windows doesnt?Jun 28 00:02
yuhongWould be interesting to compare with Vista betas.Jun 28 00:03
schestowitz_Goblin: he has heardly used LinuxJun 28 00:03
schestowitzBut we can encourage him toJun 28 00:03
_Goblinthat I can believe.Jun 28 00:03
fewaschestowitz, anyone have a download link for it?Jun 28 00:03
schestowitzIt's a lot moe valuable for workJun 28 00:03
yuhongWindows is a propritary platform.Jun 28 00:03
neighborleeyes I see the mono supportes are out enmasse on that ubuntu thread ;)Jun 28 00:03
schestowitzHe only installed Linux... like 2 weeks agoJun 28 00:03
_Goblinare you sure?Jun 28 00:03
yuhongAnd often has silly licensing restrictions like those relating to PAE.Jun 28 00:03
_GoblinSounds like a time waster to me.Jun 28 00:03
tacone_Goblin: the chance to hack the window manager ?Jun 28 00:04
schestowitzfewa: VistaBeta7?Jun 28 00:04
schestowitzRC?Jun 28 00:04
fewaschestowitz, no, for jolicloud netbook LinuxJun 28 00:04
schestowitzI'm not sure it's publicJun 28 00:04
fewait has invite BSJun 28 00:04
fewabut its free softwareJun 28 00:04
schestowitzYesJun 28 00:04
schestowitzBut alphaJun 28 00:04
schestowitzNo excuseJun 28 00:04
_Goblintacone: I dont think yuhong knows what he's hacking...or why...or how....He can't even give a definative advantage for using Linux...I dont think he's even used it.Jun 28 00:04
fewafine for a VMJun 28 00:04
tacone_Goblin: does that matter ?Jun 28 00:05
taconesometime people get too much aggressive in this channelJun 28 00:05
twitterVista 7 is Vista, it will fail 28 00:05
yuhongI am using PAE on Linux successfully, while doing so on Windows require enterprise server versions.Jun 28 00:05
fewa''enterprise''Jun 28 00:06
fewaENTERPRISE!Jun 28 00:06
fewaOMG ENTERPRISE!!!!11!!!Jun 28 00:06
yuhongYep, that kind of licensing BS do not exist on Linux.Jun 28 00:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How Geeks Turned Free Software to Multi-Million-Dollar Industry 28 00:07
_Goblintacone: it doesn't matter at all and no agression was intended, however if the future of Linux is going to be users like the current Windows ones, then Linux is doomed (IMO) to a future like Windows, where bloat and one click fixes for those that dont understand are common place.Jun 28 00:07
yuhong[    0.000000] Linux version 2.6.28-13-server (buildd@palmer) (gcc version 4.3.3Jun 28 00:07
yuhong (Ubuntu 4.3.3-5ubuntu4) ) #44-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jun 2 08:47:41 UTC 2009 (Ubuntu 2.Jun 28 00:07
_GoblinHeres a theory of mine:Jun 28 00:07
yuhong6.28-13.44-server)Jun 28 00:07
fewa_Goblin, yepJun 28 00:07
yuhongThe PAE kernel in ubuntu.Jun 28 00:08
fewa_Goblin, but the licence helps allllotJun 28 00:08
tacone_Goblin: that's just your opinionJun 28 00:08
tacone_Goblin: you perfectly know the user won't change.Jun 28 00:08
twitterGNU/Linux already works better than Windows, no fix required.Jun 28 00:08
fewa^Jun 28 00:08
_GoblinHow did the first bedroom coders learn asm?  Did they get led by the hand or did they spend years honing their skills?  It could be argued that "hand holding" damages inovation and maybe why .net dbpro et all are so popular and deskilling an entire generation.Jun 28 00:09
taconeif linux becomes the standars, that doesn't mean the mainstream users will be in anyway different.Jun 28 00:09
yuhongOf course now.Jun 28 00:09
yuhongOf course not.Jun 28 00:09
fewayuhong, why dont you run 64bit?Jun 28 00:09
taconelinux will have to provide 1 click things. and it will.Jun 28 00:09
fewaand i didnt think ubunu had a PAE ekrnel, only debianJun 28 00:09
fewaLinux will also have a superior model for fixing problemsJun 28 00:10
twitterWindows has failed users, not the other way around.  Free software serves all kinds of users from people who want to learn asm to the click and run crowd like my wife and kids.Jun 28 00:10
fewaAs the distrobution can actually fix security problemsJun 28 00:10
_GoblinTacone: and that will be its downfall (IMO)Jun 28 00:10
fewa_Goblin, only if users give up on free softwareJun 28 00:11
_Goblintacone: Users and their demands (IMO) are soley responsible for the product of Windows.....Jun 28 00:11
twitterThen GNU/LInux has already fallen because it already works like that.Jun 28 00:11
tacone_Goblin: that's a respectable opinion, but just an opinion.Jun 28 00:11
fewamaking things easier is even good for powerusersJun 28 00:11
_Goblintacone: true...Jun 28 00:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Will BlackBerry Turn to Free Software to Prevent Windows Mobile-Like Death? 28 00:12
twitterWindows reflects only one user's wishes - Bill Gates.Jun 28 00:12
tacone_Goblin: ultimately linux is good for power users because it makes things easy for power usersJun 28 00:12
twitterFreedom makes things easy for everyone.Jun 28 00:12
taconemac osx is unix, but it's not that power user friendly.Jun 28 00:12
taconelinux should try to make everything easy for everyone.Jun 28 00:12
_Goblintacone: I think we will agree to differ...Jun 28 00:12
taconethe one thing asked to linux is not to close doors to anyoneJun 28 00:12
twitterFree software is what you want it to be.Jun 28 00:13
taconelinux should not be a copy of windows, of course.Jun 28 00:13
_Goblintacone: but free software and its ethos already exists on the Windows platform...Jun 28 00:13
taconebut could find its own ways to be friendly to anyone. and to be customizable for anyone.Jun 28 00:13
_Goblintacone: Windows is simply the launchpad...Jun 28 00:13
fewaWe need to continue to give everyone power to develop and help usersJun 28 00:13
fewathis will prevent egregious crime from being commitedJun 28 00:13
taconei hope we can educate users, at least a part of them. and build a cultureJun 28 00:14
taconebut ultimately what matters is the culture amongst the developersJun 28 00:14
fewaexactly, a moral standard of developmentJun 28 00:14
_Goblintacone: Where I think I differ from many Linux fans opinion, is that I believe "all are welcome" however, I don't believe we should bend our distro to fit them...If they want to learn, they are more than welcome.Jun 28 00:14
MinceRunix is power user friendly. if osx is not power user friendly, how can it be possibly power user friendly?Jun 28 00:15
MinceRoopsJun 28 00:15
MinceRunix is power user friendly. if osx is not power user friendly, how can it be possibly unix?Jun 28 00:15
schestowitzSome people's have devs in their familyJun 28 00:15
tacone_Goblin: distros don't matter :) it's the right to customize or create distros that matters :)Jun 28 00:15
schestowitzthey need to have peers who can programmerJun 28 00:15
schestowitzThey don't need to codeJun 28 00:15
schestowitz*programJun 28 00:16
fewaschestowitz, or just an open market to have their problems fixedJun 28 00:16
taconeMinceR: compile on mac osxJun 28 00:16
taconeyou have to download deps one by one.Jun 28 00:16
taconei won't even try.Jun 28 00:16
MinceRi think calling osx "unix" is a mistake.Jun 28 00:16
MinceRthe open group's gross mismanagement of the brand notwithstanding.Jun 28 00:17
yuhongAnyway, I don't think there is anything unethical in Apple's PR, unlike MS.Jun 28 00:17
fewaMinceR, it does ship with X11 nowJun 28 00:17
MinceRso you think lying about the support of DRM is ethical, yuhong?Jun 28 00:17
yuhongI don't think that is a lie.Jun 28 00:17
MinceRfewa: an X11 server that runs under retardgui?Jun 28 00:17
taconeMinceR: maybe. but it's posix.Jun 28 00:17
*schestowitz run ~/sleep.shJun 28 00:17
fewayuhong, or suing for copyright infringement those that simply want to interoperate?Jun 28 00:17
yuhongI know, but that is not related to PE.Jun 28 00:18
MinceRyuhong: do you think their recent anti-palm patent FUD was ethical?Jun 28 00:18
taconedrm is fair. not giving rights and means to reverse engineer is badJun 28 00:18
taconegpl3 has some insights on that.Jun 28 00:18
MinceRyuhong: do you think pushing for sw patents in the EU is ethical?Jun 28 00:18
yuhongI was referring to Apple's PR only, patents are different matter.Jun 28 00:18
MinceRi'd argue their patent FUD was PR.Jun 28 00:19
MinceRafter all it didn't go beyond messages in the press.Jun 28 00:19
fewatacone, DRM is not fair when they lie to users, telling them that they purchaced something when they have little ability to use itJun 28 00:19
MinceRit couldn't, and crApple knew that very well.Jun 28 00:19
yuhongI already discussed Apple's PR on DRM above, and don't think it is a lie.Jun 28 00:19
MinceRi'm talking about their FUD on palm infringing on their patents.Jun 28 00:19
MinceRsomehow forgetting to mention that they also infringe on palm's patents.Jun 28 00:20
taconefewa: that's another thing.Jun 28 00:20
fewatacone, and the ability and past history of making the things these customers "purchased" go awayJun 28 00:20
yuhongI know.Jun 28 00:20
yuhongI know that kind of thing, I mean..Jun 28 00:20
taconefewa: i know how bad drm isJun 28 00:20
fewatacone, sry for telling it at youJun 28 00:20
taconeyou don't need to explain me once again.Jun 28 00:21
tacone:)Jun 28 00:21
fewabut companies need to be responsible for disclosing the limitations of their productsJun 28 00:21
fewanot just hiding it in a click-throughJun 28 00:21
taconedrm is basically webservice+encryptionJun 28 00:21
_Goblinsorry afk there....smoke...Jun 28 00:21
taconeboth has fair usesJun 28 00:21
taconeand bad usesJun 28 00:21
_GoblinDRM is to be blamed on the disregard of users to copyright law (rightly or wrongly)Jun 28 00:22
_GoblinIMO if users acted within the rules DRM woul not be needed...Jun 28 00:22
_Goblinthats not saying those "rules" are right.Jun 28 00:22
_Goblinbut law is something we cannot "cherry pick" the best bits...Jun 28 00:23
taconethe problem with drm is really a customer rights problemJun 28 00:23
MinceRif some fascist control freaks didn't want to force the users to do only the things they want them to do, DRM would not be needed.Jun 28 00:23
_Goblinwe either obey it or not.Jun 28 00:23
taconethe root is not about drm. is about what companies are allowed to impose.Jun 28 00:23
MinceRthere are lots of problems with law, btwJun 28 00:23
_Goblintrue, but would they need to impose anything if users we not disregarding copyright law in the first place?Jun 28 00:23
taconethat's the same thing as 90years copyright. it sucks, but not really a piracy problemJun 28 00:24
taconethe problem is lobbying and monopolyJun 28 00:24
fewa_Goblin, yesJun 28 00:24
taconewhy copyright got extended to 90 years in EU in first place ?Jun 28 00:24
fewathe publisher lobbies will always want more controlJun 28 00:24
_Goblinif people didnt share and everyone bought, DRM would be an expensive pointless exercise...Jun 28 00:24
taconecopyright should last 5 years.Jun 28 00:24
fewamore length to their exorbinent monopoliesJun 28 00:24
taconepatents should last 2 years.Jun 28 00:24
taconefair competitive advantage, and that's all.Jun 28 00:25
taconethen you have to work to earn.Jun 28 00:25
fewatacone, if 20 year patents cant help innovation how would shortening their lenth make them any better/Jun 28 00:25
_Goblinand like I say, unfortunately we have to obey the laws...even if we percieve then unjust...Jun 28 00:25
_GoblinI personally think speed camera's are wrong, but I'm not going to speed through them to prove a point.Jun 28 00:25
taconefewa: i would abolish patents at all.Jun 28 00:25
fewapatents are a very differn't beast from copyrightsJun 28 00:25
taconeand every patent, not just softwareJun 28 00:25
fewavery differntJun 28 00:26
neighborlee  < not sure if   he knows about this one..Jun 28 00:26
neighborleeor anyone for that matter o-0Jun 28 00:26
_Goblinits funny...TPB fans claim to be fighting the cause for "free data" and innovation, yet mention to most of them about FOSS or patents and you are met with a blank look...Jun 28 00:27
fewawho was it that watched that patent video at google earlier?Jun 28 00:27
taconeuhm, the community cafee is a war fieldJun 28 00:27
taconeas for me I'm going to take one beerJun 28 00:27
_Goblinbottom line, people share material to get something for nothing....they are the sole blame for DRM.Jun 28 00:27
taconemy house holder plans to sell my house and I have to find another one.Jun 28 00:28
taconei need a beer to forget ;-)Jun 28 00:28
_Goblinsorry to hear that.Jun 28 00:28
taconeofflining, be back soonJun 28 00:28
fewa_Goblin, why would support a system that doesnt make any senseJun 28 00:29
fewa_Goblin, see this 28 00:30
fewaIan Rogers, CEO of Topspin  "copyright is dead...its about providing value"Jun 28 00:30
_GoblinI didnt say I supported DRM...the point I was making was that an unjust law cannot be ignored simply because you dont agree.Jun 28 00:30
fewa_Goblin, what if Rosa Parks just got off the Bus?Jun 28 00:31
_Goblinsorry, what do you mean?Jun 28 00:31
fewawhat if the civil rights people didnt stand up for equal rights? didnt engague in civil disobediance?Jun 28 00:32
_Goblinvery good point. but theres a world of difference between equal rights and the ability to share movies/games and music.Jun 28 00:32
fewa_Goblin, its about the ability to help your neighborJun 28 00:33
MinceR014124 < _Goblin> true, but would they need to impose anything if users we not disregarding copyright law in the first place?Jun 28 00:33
MinceRno, but they would anywayJun 28 00:33
fewa_Goblin, that is freedom 2Jun 28 00:33
fewaits about the freedom to use tools to get the job doneJun 28 00:34
fewathat is freedom 0Jun 28 00:34
_Goblinyes but a line has to be drawn for the sake of social stability...there are many laws which whilst regarded as minor cannot be challenged in this way, otherwise there would be chaos.Jun 28 00:34
_Goblinand the whole system of law collapses...Jun 28 00:35
fewa_Goblin, RMS said himself that copyright on creative works, works made for entertainment like games artwork, and fiction could have copyrightJun 28 00:35
fewahe proposed 10 yearsJun 28 00:35
fewabut he also says that these artists should get paid for providing valueJun 28 00:35
fewamost artists make their money on shows, not albumsJun 28 00:35
MinceRwe'd probably better for it if the legal system collapsed.Jun 28 00:35
_Goblinthe argument (IMO) for pro-file sharing is an argument against capitalism.Jun 28 00:35
fewaand the value of buying a copy of music is questionableJun 28 00:35
MinceRit only serves itself.Jun 28 00:35
fewabut going to a concert is an experienceJun 28 00:35
yuhongYep, the fundemental flaws of artificial scarity yet again.Jun 28 00:36
fewa_Goblin, the arguement for file-sharing is against Govenment granted monopoliesJun 28 00:36
_Goblinbut then theres a legal option other than breaking the law....Jun 28 00:36
fewa_Goblin, do you favor the government granting exclusive rights to institutions to do certain thingsJun 28 00:36
_Goblinvote with your feet, dont consume.Jun 28 00:36
MinceRthe options other than breaking the law are per definition legal.Jun 28 00:36
fewa_Goblin, yes, Rosa Parks could have goten off the busJun 28 00:36
fewathat is a alternative oppurtunityJun 28 00:36
yuhongYep.Jun 28 00:37
fewawhat is wrong with people consuming the world collective knowledge? collective culture?Jun 28 00:37
fewa_Goblin, how does this hurt anyone?Jun 28 00:37
_Goblinwhen applied to examples such as equal rights/dignity issues, its very easy to highlight a good cause in the name of data freedom, there is though the idea that if consumers are unhappy with monopolies, they can do something immediately by boycotting the products.Jun 28 00:38
yuhongI don't think that even that Apple's PR is brainwash, or even that it would be good if apple dies.Jun 28 00:38
fewa_Goblin, im not saying that copyright is impossible, but it must be taken in the context of the origional mandate in the constitutionJun 28 00:38
_Goblinand I think the fact that the diverse laws of different countries make the position difficult...Jun 28 00:39
fewaTo promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.Jun 28 00:39
fewaThat copyright is a selling of congress of peoples rights, as a bargain for more works for the public's useJun 28 00:39
*twitter has quit ("Leaving.")Jun 28 00:39
yuhongYep, copyright is being abused to create artificial scarity which is not good.Jun 28 00:40
*SeanTilley (i=ad1d7b24@gateway/web/freenode/x-876b960b0ee19160) has joined #boycottnovellJun 28 00:40
_Goblinfor example...if you want to download something without legal ramifications....use the NG's not BT...theres no provision in UK law for that downloading act.Jun 28 00:40
SeanTilleyHey, I'm back.Jun 28 00:40
fewa_Goblin, if copyright does not promote science and the useful arts then what good is it?Jun 28 00:40
fewaand how does making copyright longer and longer, retroactively promote anything but a rape of the public domainJun 28 00:41
_Goblinand thats a good, if separate question.  The question being put is, does breaking the law justify the cause of downloading music/movies/games?Jun 28 00:41
yuhongWhat copyright was originally intended for is to prevent other book publishers from reprinting pirated books.Jun 28 00:41
fewa_Goblin, copyright is used for far more than thatJun 28 00:42
_Goblinvery true.Jun 28 00:42
SeanTilleySadly.Jun 28 00:42
_Goblinand we have to hope that each case is tret on its merits in a fair and just way.Jun 28 00:42
SeanTilleyI just hate how patents are viewed to function like copyright.Jun 28 00:42
SeanTilleyBy huge corporations.Jun 28 00:42
_Goblintrue, but the patent issue is very different....Jun 28 00:42
fewathey cantJun 28 00:42
fewaSeanTilley, agreedJun 28 00:43
fewaSeanTilley, but its actually te opposite, they want copyrights to function more like indefinite patentsJun 28 00:43
SeanTilleyAh, that's it.Jun 28 00:43
fewaSeanTilley, as slowers of innovationJun 28 00:43
SeanTilleyThank you.Jun 28 00:43
SeanTilleyHowever, regardless of who is emulating who, it's still largely problematic.Jun 28 00:43
SeanTilleyBoth are, in a lot of ways.Jun 28 00:44
_Goblinbut have copyrights slowed innovation?Jun 28 00:44
yuhongI know, the nonsense of lumping copyright and patents together called "intellectual property".Jun 28 00:44
fewathats the "look and feel" lawsuit of Apple v MicrosoftJun 28 00:44
SeanTilleyUgh, yep.Jun 28 00:44
fewa_Goblin, yesJun 28 00:44
_Goblinexamples?Jun 28 00:44
SeanTilleyThere was a lawsuit going on a couple months ago by a company that tried to patent icons or something like that.Jun 28 00:44
fewa_Goblin, clearly, in this modern age, yesJun 28 00:44
SeanTilleyGoogle, Apple, Microsoft, and Adobe were all being sued for it.Jun 28 00:45
_Goblinand obviously that hasnt come to fruition has it...Jun 28 00:45
fewa_Goblin, they shut down, a site where unsigned artists published origional worksJun 28 00:45
yuhongBegan when MS tried to take advantage of the fact that it was a Mac software vendor to get info need to copy Mac to create Windows.Jun 28 00:45
SeanTilleyAt least there's still Jamendo.Jun 28 00:45
_Goblinand theres plenty more out there now.Jun 28 00:45
yuhongI told you that the MS-Apple relationship was very interesting.Jun 28 00:45
fewa_Goblin, they sue anyone what has a fiction book that at all has the plot of a copyright work such as Harry PotterJun 28 00:45
SeanTilleyJ.K Rowling is my least favorite author because of that.Jun 28 00:45
fewa_Goblin, if these had these rules at the time of Shakespear he would have never been able to write his playsJun 28 00:45
yuhongBack in 1983.Jun 28 00:46
SeanTilleyShe's pathetic for the sheer amount of fan works she's tried to shut down, usually free ones.Jun 28 00:46
fewa_Goblin, he would be sued off the face of the earthJun 28 00:46
_Goblinand one could argue if you are using someone elses character, its hardly innovative.Jun 28 00:46
fewa_Goblin, if you write a new theme on itJun 28 00:46
_Goblinif on the otherhand Tolken had tried to sue Rowlins, then I'd agreeJun 28 00:46
fewa_Goblin, using your own wit,Jun 28 00:46
SeanTilley_Goblin: On the contrary, I think taking prexisting characters and putting them in new situations CAN be originalJun 28 00:46
SeanTilleyTake a look at Philip Jose Pharmer.Jun 28 00:46
SeanTilleyHe took Doc Holiday and Tarzan, and put them together in several novels.Jun 28 00:46
fewa_Goblin, and you have to ask the oppositequestion. How does preventing someone for using anothers character in a innovative new way not harm culture and art?Jun 28 00:47
fewaEven the retelling of a classic story is very artfulJun 28 00:47
fewavery valuable, and interesting to the publicJun 28 00:48
SeanTilleyIt all depends on implementation.Jun 28 00:48
fewaCanturbery tales, Shakespeare, they all do thisJun 28 00:48
fewathey would all be sued off the face of the earyhJun 28 00:48
fewathe Disney forture is based on thisJun 28 00:48
_Goblinit neednt, however the point I was making was that copyright (not patent) is in no way responsible for complete loss of innovation, and one could argue that with creative sorts being forced down the route of avoiding others copyrights actually produces even more innovative products.Jun 28 00:49
fewathey copied everyone, but as soon as they gained status, they then tried to prevent copititon, stifle art and cultureJun 28 00:49
SeanTilleyI believe that copyright is misused alot anymore, though.Jun 28 00:49
fewa_Goblin, but can YOU argue that, with a straight face?Jun 28 00:49
_GoblinI think I could if I was paid enough to represent it.Jun 28 00:49
_Goblin;)Jun 28 00:50
SeanTilleyThere was a TED talk about this somewhere, I think Lawrence Lessig was the speaker.Jun 28 00:50
fewaexactlyJun 28 00:50
SeanTilleyTalked about a Read/Write culture and the problems of it.Jun 28 00:50
*tacone1 (n=Adium@ has joined #boycottnovellJun 28 00:50
SeanTilley 28 00:50
SeanTilleyThat one.Jun 28 00:50
tacone1backJun 28 00:50
_GoblinI think though it distracts from the main crux of what I was saying, even if we agree that copyright completely destroys innovation, we cannot argue that to do so infringes on law...until that changes anything else is by the by, and I certainly dont think the way to change it is to throw the laws in the face of those who enforce them.Jun 28 00:51
_Goblinand I don't the TPB are the ones to bring about change...Jun 28 00:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] f is keeping us awake but has said a pile of new words! damn her cuteness. bed now. conservative club disco has finished too. thank fuck.Jun 28 00:52
tacone1the ubuntuforums thread is already growingJun 28 00:52
tacone1i wish iJun 28 00:52
tacone1errJun 28 00:52
*tacone has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jun 28 00:52
tacone1nevermindJun 28 00:52
yuhongAnd yes, the Apple cult is well known.Jun 28 00:53
_Goblinbtw great discussion....I enjoyedd it greatly.Jun 28 00:53
SeanTilleylolJun 28 00:53
fewa_Goblin, actually under us law, the constitution, if Copyright and Patents do not "promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts" they they are not authorizedJun 28 00:53
fewajust to say thatJun 28 00:54
_Goblinand I think one of the many issues is the diversity between countries and their laws...Jun 28 00:54
MinceRthen all sw patents are invalid there.Jun 28 00:54
_Goblinfor example, I dont believe TPB would have been found guilty in the UK.Jun 28 00:54
fewayou just have to convince the 9 members of the supreme courtJun 28 00:54
MinceRbut nobody will attack them that way.Jun 28 00:54
_Goblinor certainly not of the charges they were.Jun 28 00:55
MinceRthe supreme court is probably bought and paid for anyway.Jun 28 00:55
fewaMinceR, i certainly wont take that positionJun 28 00:55
fewaMinceR, the supreme court justices are of a older generation, they do not fully understand the impact of these laws on current societyJun 28 00:56
fewaMinceR, also justices are appointed for life, by design its impossible to buy them offJun 28 00:56
tacone1omf. gparted out of the ubuntu live cdJun 28 00:56
fewaone of the brillient moves of the constitutionJun 28 00:56
MinceRfewa: i doubt that's a sufficient guarantee.Jun 28 00:57
MinceRthey can still be appointed and they can still use money.Jun 28 00:57
yuhongOn patents, here is a problem that I really want to talk about.Jun 28 00:57
yuhong 28 00:57
tacone1no, i was wrongJun 28 00:58
yuhongAnd it is not just MS. I know that Amazon, Facebook, and Apple are victums too.Jun 28 00:58
fewaMinceR, a patent case has not been brought before the supreme court for a number of yearsJun 28 00:59
fewajust wait and read the In Re Bilski decision when it comes outJun 28 01:00
fewaconservative wheels move slowJun 28 01:01
yuhong 28 01:03
fewaState Street was "it produces a useful, concrete and tangible result.", and was not set by the supreme courtJun 28 01:04
yuhongActually, that is not exactly what I want. Let me dig depper.Jun 28 01:05
fewabut by the court of appeals for the federal circuit, which is a patent courtJun 28 01:05
fewaIE a pro-patent courtJun 28 01:05
yuhong 28 01:05
fewacreated by congress, at the proposal of lobbiests, because the normal courts struct down too many of their patents (in their opinion)Jun 28 01:06
yuhongActually, that first one is good also.Jun 28 01:06
yuhongWhat do you think about that problem.Jun 28 01:06
fewaMinceR, watch that google video if you have not 28 01:07
MinceRi'll watch it later. what is it about?Jun 28 01:07
Ngtacone1: that would be a pretty unlikely move ;)Jun 28 01:07
fewaMinceR, "Protecting Freedom In The Patent System"Jun 28 01:08
fewaIt has a good abstract on the sidebarJun 28 01:08
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tacone1Ng: the new partitioner sucks. they got rid of it in Ubuntu netbook remixJun 28 01:08
tacone1and even apt-getting it doesn't workJun 28 01:08
tacone1I don't want it to be gone.Jun 28 01:09
tacone1but i was wrong, btw. it's still there. i misreadJun 28 01:09
Ngas I said, getting rid of gparted in the live cd would be a pretty strange move. partitioning tools are exceptionally valuable in a live CD environment :)Jun 28 01:09
_Hicham_hi oiaohmJun 28 01:10
_Hicham_wbJun 28 01:10
NgUNR is a very pointless place to have gparted by default thoughJun 28 01:10
_Hicham_gparted is a great partitionerJun 28 01:10
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oiaohmHi _Hicham_Jun 28 01:11
_Hicham_how r u doingJun 28 01:13
_Hicham_?Jun 28 01:13
tacone1the new partitioner suckJun 28 01:13
tacone1sucksJun 28 01:13
_Hicham_didn't see this partitionerJun 28 01:13
tacone1and installing on netbook remix gives up a HAL error when you try to launch it.Jun 28 01:14
_Hicham_I left Ubuntu for a whileJun 28 01:14
tacone1installing gparted, i meantJun 28 01:14
oiaohm  LOLJun 28 01:16
oiaohmYes how to avoid fat patent is a laughJun 28 01:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Andre Da Costa posting as Mr Dee on Cnet? #microsoft #vista #windows #linux #7 #windows7Jun 28 01:17
fewaoiaohm, lolJun 28 01:18
tacone1foreigner newspapers still thing that a sex scandal is enough to make berlusconi resignJun 28 01:21
tacone1they have no clue.Jun 28 01:21
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fewa 28 01:42
fewa" Basically we needed to minimise theJun 28 01:42
fewa     chance of triggering a bug in WindowsXP where some values wouldJun 28 01:42
fewa     cause XP to crash with a blue screen"Jun 28 01:42
fewashitty microsoft codeJun 28 01:43
oiaohmMost people are not aware that the Linux foundation has a full time patent lawyers to deal with patent issues.Jun 28 01:52
fewasadly thats the cost of doing business in this day and age (i supose)Jun 28 01:53
MinceRcompany with the funniest name ever >> 28 01:54
oiaohmMost of the time they are using to create patent loop holes.Jun 28 01:54
fewaMinceR, lololJun 28 01:55
fewathats the most racist thing I have seen all dayJun 28 01:55
fewaits actually not funnyJun 28 01:55
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fewawell they probably dont know that its american slangJun 28 01:57
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SeanTilleyAaand we're back.Jun 28 04:21
SeanTilleySo apparently the Gnote developer is a bit of a hothead.Jun 28 04:22
SeanTilley 28 04:23
SeanTilley 28 04:24
SeanTilley 28 04:24
SeanTilleyI'm really kind of surprised he's not Anti-Mono.Jun 28 04:24
SeanTilleyI mean, I still appreciate his efforts and all.Jun 28 04:24
SeanTilleyBut I'm kind of surprised at how rude and condescending he was about it.Jun 28 04:24
twitterWhy be surprised?  He's using Gtk.Jun 28 04:35
twitterYou can only imagine the trolling the guy has gotten for his efforts.Jun 28 04:36
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fewameh let him have his peaceJun 28 04:36
twitterThe goal of moving away from mono can also be performance.Jun 28 04:37
twitterWhen those goals align with freedom you just have to sit back and be happy.Jun 28 04:37
fewa lol WindowsJun 28 04:37
SeanTilleyI can't help but be disappointed a little, though.Jun 28 04:38
SeanTilleyI was trying to be all nice and do him a favor, and promptly got stepped on.Jun 28 04:38
SeanTilleyAh well.Jun 28 04:38
twitterDon't worry, be happy.Jun 28 04:38
SeanTilleyThanks, man.Jun 28 04:38
twitterPeople under troll attack have a hard time telling offers of help from subtle attacks and time wasting.Jun 28 04:39
fewa 28 04:40
SeanTilleytwitter: I guess you're right.Jun 28 04:40
twitterAll in all, people are understanding the mono threat.Jun 28 04:40
SeanTilleyAnd RMS' explanation was flat-out excellent.Jun 28 04:40
SeanTilleyClarified a lot of things.Jun 28 04:40
twitterRMS has said essentially the same thing before.  He was a little more direct this time.Jun 28 04:41
fewaalong with that commont you mentioned twitterJun 28 04:41
twitterRoy has been saying these things for years.Jun 28 04:41
twitterIt is satisfying to see people realize the threat before real harm is done.Jun 28 04:41
fewaits the difference between Linux having support for FAT and having it installed by defaultJun 28 04:41
SeanTilleyGood point.Jun 28 04:42
SeanTilleyAlthough...Jun 28 04:42
SeanTilleyI honestly haven't used FAT in years.Jun 28 04:42
twitterThat's probably the worst case for M$ and friends, to have worked right to the threshold of success only to have their little trap disarmed.  They wasted the maximum amount of resources.Jun 28 04:43
SeanTilleyNot even back when I used Windows.Jun 28 04:43
SeanTilleyYeah.Jun 28 04:43
fewabut those FSs were implemented before the TomTom caseJun 28 04:43
fewaand now we know that M$ is a patent agreessorJun 28 04:43
fewaso we should be more cautiousJun 28 04:43
twitterFAT is commonly used in cameras, USB fobs and other devices.  GNU/Linux needs it as a way to talk to these unfriendly systems.Jun 28 04:43
SeanTilleyApple could be just as guilty.Jun 28 04:43
SeanTilleyKnowing the amount of patents they're holding.Jun 28 04:44
fewayeah SeanTilley you probably use FAT or FAT32 on a daily basis in a digital cameraJun 28 04:44
SeanTilleyI hadn't even thought of that.Jun 28 04:44
twitterThe FAT attack is against device makers.  They must toe the line or be punished.Jun 28 04:44
oiaohmRecent patches in the Lkml has way around fat problem.Jun 28 04:44
fewahowever FAT is not microsoft, only FAT32 do they claimJun 28 04:44
SeanTilleyOh.Jun 28 04:44
oiaohmNot FAT32Jun 28 04:44
fewamost cameras use msdos FAT onlyJun 28 04:44
oiaohmWhat is patented is how the short filename is formed from the long file name.Jun 28 04:44
twitterIt is a weapon against commercial use of free software, until device makers get smart and dump FAT for any of the good replacements.Jun 28 04:45
oiaohmTurns out Windows will handle nulled out short filename.Jun 28 04:45
twitterIf device makers do this as an industry group, M$ is screwed.Jun 28 04:45
fewameh FAT16 is a good FS for simple devices like Digital camerasJun 28 04:45
SeanTilleyWhat are the alternatives for cameras anyways?Jun 28 04:45
oiaohmSo Linux can interact with FAT without using the patented code.Jun 28 04:45
fewabut if they use Linux its reasonable to use ext2 which there is a windows driver forJun 28 04:45
oiaohmIssue over fat will basically disappear.Jun 28 04:46
twitterThere are several free formats optimized for flash devices.  I can't think of them off the top of my head.Jun 28 04:46
twittereven ext2 is OK.Jun 28 04:46
fewayeah, FAT is a fine FS, it is very simple, and completely obviousJun 28 04:46
SeanTilleyIs it possible to format ext2 on existing cameras, such as hard-drive based ones?Jun 28 04:46
fewaSeanTilley, yes, but the OS will probably not support itJun 28 04:46
twitterI'm not sure - the camera has to be able to read it.Jun 28 04:46
oiaohmFirmware has to support it.Jun 28 04:46
fewaathough i had one SD card that would crash my sheevaplug if i formatted it ext2Jun 28 04:47
twitterThe camera maker can do this because they have the software in the first place.Jun 28 04:47
fewathat was wierd but it only happened with one cardJun 28 04:47
SeanTilleyYeah.Jun 28 04:47
twitterAll cameras for Winblows come with a CD and drivers anyway.Jun 28 04:47
fewabut FAT is a very simple, IMHO unpatentably obvious, filesystemJun 28 04:47
oiaohmFAT file system core is not patented.Jun 28 04:47
SeanTilleyWell, that's not too bad.Jun 28 04:47
fewawell the whole thing is unpatentable IMHOJun 28 04:48
fewaincluding log file namesJun 28 04:48
oiaohmThe patented sections is linked purely to long and short filename.Jun 28 04:48
twitterThe makers can do as they please, so long as they act as an industry.  If they act one at a time, M$ can punish them by breaking their devices like they broke Intel graphics chips.Jun 28 04:48
fewaoiaohm, yeah the patch was an excellent work-aroundJun 28 04:48
oiaohmIe how to create short filenames from long.Jun 28 04:48
twitterI have a feeling that Intel will not forgive M$ for that one.Jun 28 04:48
SeanTilleyOn a slightly seperate hardware note, the Gallium3D project looks really promising for FOSS Grahpics drivers.Jun 28 04:49
SeanTilleyMainly Nouveau and RadeonJun 28 04:49
fewatwitter, industry is the automated production of physical goodsJun 28 04:49
oiaohmDRI2 KMS and Gallium3d all are changing important things in the graphical stack SeanTilleyJun 28 04:50
SeanTilleyI've read some of the documentation for Gallium, though.Jun 28 04:50
SeanTilleyBrilliant stuff.Jun 28 04:50
twitterI have not seen that.  I hope it succeeds.Jun 28 04:50
SeanTilleyThings are going to definitely improve in ways no one expected within the next year.Jun 28 04:50
oiaohmNot exaclty how no one expected.Jun 28 04:51
twittertime to move computers.  brbJun 28 04:51
oiaohmThings are about 6 months behind what I timelined a year ago SeanTilleyJun 28 04:51
SeanTilleyWell, I mean, I'm pretty sure the community in general isn't expecting FOSS dirvers to improve so much.Jun 28 04:51
SeanTilley*driversJun 28 04:51
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fewa The European Parliament, rejecting software patents in 2003, voted to define “industry” as “automated production of material goods”.Jun 28 04:51
SeanTilleyoiaohm: Well, I'm just an optimist I guess.Jun 28 04:51
oiaohmcuse is a big change in 2.6.31Jun 28 04:51
SeanTilleyYou mean FUSE?Jun 28 04:52
oiaohmNo I mean CuseJun 28 04:52
SeanTilleyWhat's that?Jun 28 04:52
oiaohmChar based devices done in userspace.Jun 28 04:52
SeanTilleyWow.Jun 28 04:52
oiaohmNow we just need buse and all driver types will be doable userspace.Jun 28 04:53
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SeanTilleyNice.Jun 28 04:53
oiaohmcuse and buse are both sub projects of fuse.Jun 28 04:53
SeanTilleyWell, I sure hope this stuff gets included into the next linux-libre kernel release.Jun 28 04:54
SeanTilleySounds really exciting.Jun 28 04:54
fewathats coolJun 28 04:54
oiaohmcuse being mainline also will see some old drivers being pushed out of kernel space and into userspace.Jun 28 04:54
SeanTilleybrb, now I have to switch computers.Jun 28 04:54
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oiaohmAlso make backporting of some drivers simpler.Jun 28 04:55
fewaexposure of kernel driver interfaces to userspaceJun 28 04:55
fewain a sane mannerJun 28 04:55
oiaohmLinux is slowly turning hybred.Jun 28 04:55
oiaohmSomewhere between microkernel and monolitchic.Jun 28 04:55
fewapracticalithicJun 28 04:56
fewainstead of fundamentatheoreaticianisticJun 28 04:56
oiaohmRealtime support also makes userspace drivers more operational.Jun 28 04:56
fewanever thought of thatJun 28 04:57
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twitterjust how screwed up US health care is and why, as told by an industry insider. 28 05:02
fewaUn-Cooperative: The Trouble with Conrad's Compromise 28 05:03
fewaPaul Krugman - Health Care Showdown 28 05:03
fewaand here is a good economic look with perspective - Elizabeth Warren - The Coming Collapse of the Middle Class - 28 05:06
fewashe currently heads the TARP committeeJun 28 05:07
fewathat large non-discretionary spending items, such as health-care threaten to derail the middle class.Jun 28 05:08
tessier 28 05:12
fewatwitter, wow, what an articleJun 28 05:12
tessierFirst thing billg has done which really seems to have no ulterior motives.Jun 28 05:12
twitterI'll believe there are no ulterior motives when the lectures are released in ogg theora along with a Windows update to allow playing of the same.Jun 28 05:14
fewalook at the comment: "these lectures were up on google video approx. two years ago. and then the videos were removed. i hope it becomes free for public-viewing soon."Jun 28 05:19
fewaspeeches so long ago, by someone who has passed away, belong to the public, not rich individualsJun 28 05:20
twitterthere's no troll like a busted troll 28 05:36
twitterIn the above thread, they basically brag about monitoring conversation here or my every post to Slashdot.Jun 28 05:37
twittervery creepy.Jun 28 05:37
neighborleetwitter, thx for heads up on prwatch article..corruption is rampant in government...god knows elsewhere...but I suspect this is going to superCHARGE the debate now and maybe make it alot harder for anyone to vote health care reform down...unless they really do succeed at shooting down his credibility ;0-judging by this article that seems rather unlikely ; if being healthy is only the right of  those with enough money..maybe gJun 28 05:45
neighborleeod/creator-- should start chargiing us for USE=universe air water fire earth or something....this is going to be very interesting to see if this REforms the current debate :)Jun 28 05:45
neighborleeif there is anyone left that is after the sex scandals take their damage :)Jun 28 05:46
fewaneighborlee, this is a matter of life or death to the middle classJun 28 05:46
neighborleefewa, is that allJun 28 05:46
fewaof many thingsJun 28 05:46
fewaits not just one person, one bit of corruption, its multitudes of itJun 28 05:47
neighborleeno kidding ;)Jun 28 05:48
twitterGoogle mocks Bing. 28 05:48
neighborleeomg..not to mention the HIT wall street is going to take for this :))Jun 28 05:48
fewabut if it destroys the middle class, if it means the death of millions who cannot afford health insuranceJun 28 05:49
neighborleehm I dont see anything special about bing atm maybe im too used to google not sure atmJun 28 05:49
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fewaneighborlee, thats the point. "If you Bing for it," he would say, "you can find it."Jun 28 05:50
neighborlee:)Jun 28 05:50
fewaaccording to Google's Vijay GillJun 28 05:50
twitterGill's punchline is accurate.  Compare 28 05:51
twitterandJun 28 05:51
neighborleeI yearn for the day , we have ONE classJun 28 05:51
twitter 28 05:51
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twitterbing is completely cluelessJun 28 05:51
SeanTilleytwitter: I agree. It also looks like a search engine for children.Jun 28 05:52
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twitterThere's nothing wrong with nice things for children.  There's a lot wrong with their search engine.Jun 28 05:52
SeanTilleyRight, I'm just saying though.Jun 28 05:52
SeanTilleyA horrid design aesthetic.Jun 28 05:53
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neighborleeit doesnt' even autocomplete to a given topic like google doesJun 28 05:53
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SeanTilleyEr, that's weird.Jun 28 05:53
fewafrom Sun: "the network is the computer"Jun 28 05:53
fewawho said that?Jun 28 05:54
SeanTilleySchwartz?Jun 28 05:54
fewalol there is even a wikipedia redirect 28 05:55
twitterATT greed is no myth;jsessionid=54BFSCX4IZZCOQSNDLPCKHSCJUNN2JVNJun 28 05:55
twitter$11,000 data bill.  Ouch.Jun 28 05:55
neighborleewe are the world..we are the matrix ;))Jun 28 05:55
SeanTilleytwitter: iPhone bill, I assume? =PJun 28 05:55
twitterNope, regular modemJun 28 05:56
SeanTilleyGee whiz.Jun 28 05:56
fewaJohn Gage first said itJun 28 05:56
fewaas awknowledged by SchwatzJun 28 05:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Dutch: M$ fanboi Jan Stedehouder gooit weer eens met modder naar BoycottNovell 28 05:57
twitterThey claim 9GB of data while in Canada.  I'll bet his laptop had some kind of Winblows malware spamming the world while he was there.Jun 28 05:57
fewatwitter, same fraud that was made popular on youtubeJun 28 05:58
fewaand i see they are still comitting itJun 28 05:58
fewatelling the phone handlers to feign stupidity on cent to dollar conversionJun 28 05:58
fewalying to their customersJun 28 05:58
fewaoo in that case it was verizonJun 28 05:59
fewa 28 05:59
fewabut At&t is verizon (cell networks)Jun 28 05:59
twitterSeattle Weekly passes on Vista 7 upgrade, 28 06:07
twitterha ha.Jun 28 06:07
neighborleelolJun 28 06:07
neighborleewell its better...thats my current experience so Far anyway..BUT having to pay so much for it even an upgrade..not so much.Jun 28 06:08
SeanTilleyYay, my Gnote review made front page of FS Daily.Jun 28 06:09
twitterhere's a funny.  96 current news results for "Vista 7" 28 06:09
SeanTilleyMuchos gracias.Jun 28 06:09
twittercongratsJun 28 06:10
SeanTilleyToo bad is busy "editing" it, meaning I have to wait for it to be approved again.Jun 28 06:10
SeanTilleyTheir anti-spam system is abysmal.Jun 28 06:10
neighborleeSeanTilley, so whats your overall quick take ive not seen articleJun 28 06:10
SeanTilleyneighborlee: It's a review/comparison of Gnote and Tomboy, with a description of the similarities between the two apps and the benefit of Gnote to users that don't want Mono.Jun 28 06:11
SeanTilleySadly, the developer isn't Anti-Mono, and sent me a rather angry set of messages about my inaccuracy, meaning I had to edit it.Jun 28 06:12
neighborleenot what I meant, but sure gotcha ;)Jun 28 06:12
SeanTilleyAnd now it's waiting on's review/approval thing.Jun 28 06:12
SeanTilleyGnote's really good, though. Faster than Tomboy, slightly lacking on plugins, but stable and very good for a Gnome desktop/Jun 28 06:13
oiaohmGnote developer was after speed.Jun 28 06:13
SeanTilleyWell he's certainly doing well with that.Jun 28 06:13
oiaohmThere are all different reasons to hate mono.Jun 28 06:13
*Viper_Chief has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jun 28 06:13
SeanTilleyTrue, however he actually chewed me out because he likes mono.Jun 28 06:14
twitterThose tweets did not seem very angry, it just looked like he wanted to be consulted before you attributed motives.Jun 28 06:14
neighborleeSeanTilley, kewlJun 28 06:14
SeanTilleytwitter: Maybe, the sad thing about the internet is an occasional lack of context.Jun 28 06:14
twitterSurely there are more developers than that one.  Check out as many of their opinions as you can.Jun 28 06:14
SeanTilleyGot it.Jun 28 06:14
neighborleeoiaohm, heh, he got a whole lot more maybe than what he expected..or DID he ;))Jun 28 06:14
twittertweets have a terrible lack of context.Jun 28 06:14
SeanTilleySo much for the social part of social networking.Jun 28 06:15
oiaohmGnote developer looks as mono as fine as a application development statch patch.Jun 28 06:15
oiaohmpatch/padJun 28 06:15
neighborleeo_0Jun 28 06:15
oiaohmPersonally I see vala as the future.Jun 28 06:16
neighborleevalidJun 28 06:16 was designed to interface with windows api's not gnome or kde ones.Jun 28 06:17
oiaohmIt basically don't fit well.Jun 28 06:17
SeanTilleyJust look at Synapse.imJun 28 06:17
SeanTilleySlow as a dog.Jun 28 06:17
SeanTilleyVisually appealing, but sloooow.Jun 28 06:18
neighborleeoiaohm, there is def.that ;)Jun 28 06:18
SeanTilleyI really wish there was a good dedicated Qt4 Jabber client that wasn't Kopete.Jun 28 06:18
SeanTilleyTime to search for one, I suppose.Jun 28 06:19
neighborleeyes i never had much luck with that app...haven't  really messed with IM much in linux  usually just irc,go figJun 28 06:20
neighborleehm not in windows lately either actualllyJun 28 06:20
SeanTilleyHeh.Jun 28 06:20
neighborlee:)Jun 28 06:20
SeanTilleyI haven't used Windows since I tried the Win7 Beta.Jun 28 06:21
oiaohmThe C# langage design was not that bad.Jun 28 06:21
SeanTilleyNvidia card didn't work, so that one got wiped pretty quickly.Jun 28 06:21
oiaohmI have not used windows other than to repiar clients for over a year.Jun 28 06:22
SeanTilleyGod, most of the recomended Linux Jabber clients are in Gtk...Jun 28 06:22
SeanTilleyLame.Jun 28 06:22
neighborleeSeanTilley, ouch ;)Jun 28 06:23
SeanTilleyWell, time for an educational field trip to Qt4, KDE, and Jabber/XMPP API documentation.Jun 28 06:23
SeanTilleyWheeeee.Jun 28 06:23
oiaohmReally if themeing on the open desktop was sorted out we really would not care about gtk or qt.Jun 28 06:23
SeanTilleyRight.Jun 28 06:23
SeanTilleyBut it's such a mess.Jun 28 06:23
oiaohmWith interconnects.Jun 28 06:23
oiaohmCompared to 1994 its tidy now.Jun 28 06:24
neighborleeSeanTilley, makes me sick to think I used to        prefer,,recommend ,, im wishing honestly I'd listened to linus when he said 'just use kde'Jun 28 06:24
neighborleebahJun 28 06:24
SeanTilley4.3 is looking pretty sharp nowadays.Jun 28 06:24
SeanTilleyEspeciallly with Nuno's Air theme.Jun 28 06:24
neighborleetrue thatJun 28 06:25
SeanTilleyThe only thing I really like about Gnome really is the ease-of-use for things like installing themes.Jun 28 06:25
neighborleeit was  kinda buggy for me in fedora..but then..that might have just been fedora ?<smirk>Jun 28 06:25
SeanTilleyAnd I've always liked the menu bar.Jun 28 06:25
oiaohmWe need more projects like the evolution kontact one where they will end up sharing the same back end.Jun 28 06:25
neighborleeSeanTilley, yupJun 28 06:25
SeanTilleyIf Gnome's Menu Bar functionality could be made into a plasmoid, I'd be a happy camper.Jun 28 06:25
neighborlee:)Jun 28 06:26
SeanTilley=]Jun 28 06:26
neighborleeoiaohm, very true....Jun 28 06:26
SeanTilleybrbJun 28 06:26
oiaohmThis kde vs gnome stuff is really slowing development down.Jun 28 06:27
oiaohmWith lot of highly complex stuff duplicated.Jun 28 06:27
neighborleeI do agree on that one..sad but trueJun 28 06:28
SeanTilleybackJun 28 06:28
neighborleeim not sure it could have been entirely avoided though given the environmentJun 28 06:28
neighborleeSeanTilley, wb :)Jun 28 06:28
SeanTilleyAnd yeah, that flamewar's been going on for as long as I can remember.Jun 28 06:28
SeanTilleyIt's all so pointless.Jun 28 06:29
oiaohmIts more a new class of desktop users are required.Jun 28 06:29
neighborleedepends how you look at it..its very moot now that qt changed its license o_0Jun 28 06:29
oiaohmOnes that run mixed and expect them to intergrate well with each other.Jun 28 06:29
neighborleeyupJun 28 06:29
oiaohmPersonally I don't care if the application is gtk or qt.Jun 28 06:31
oiaohmNeither gnome or kde can give you the complete best of software the open source world has to offer up.Jun 28 06:31
SeanTilleyI like both KDE and Gnome, for different reasons.Jun 28 06:31
SeanTilleyStill, I have yet to find a KDE app to rival Gimp.Jun 28 06:32
neighborleeoiaohm, yes and thx to that , imho linux lags behind more than it needs toJun 28 06:32
SeanTilleyKrita's not bad.Jun 28 06:32
neighborleestrength comes from unity very oftenJun 28 06:32
neighborleevery trueJun 28 06:32
neighborleeI think im gimpED , though krita looks nice ...never messed with it enough to say sadlyJun 28 06:33
oiaohmkrita is a imagemagic front end.Jun 28 06:33
SeanTilleyKrita just kind of lacks Gimp's functionality for me.Jun 28 06:33
oiaohmSo it is very good.Jun 28 06:33
SeanTilleyBut thenJun 28 06:33
SeanTilleyI'm so used to GIMP's interfaceJun 28 06:33
oiaohmJust has not developed the plugin interface Gimp has.Jun 28 06:34
oiaohmLittle things make the differences.Jun 28 06:34
neighborleeSeanTilley, same here basicallyJun 28 06:35
neighborleeoiaohm, yupJun 28 06:35
SeanTilleyAh well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.Jun 28 06:35
oiaohmf-spot vs Digikam.  For me Digikam always wins.Jun 28 06:37
SeanTilleyGwenview is also nice for a casual photo collection view.Jun 28 06:38
oiaohmDigikam has the means to do a lot of image corrections built in.Jun 28 06:38
SeanTilleyI still prefer OpenOffice over KOffice, at least some Kubuntu devs are finally implementing a Qt4 frontend.Jun 28 06:38
SeanTilleyI was bummed to find KOffice doesn't really support image animations yet.Jun 28 06:39
fewaI like the OpenOffice qt4 frontendJun 28 06:39
SeanTilleyI have yet to check it out.Jun 28 06:40
SeanTilleyOh, whaddya know?Jun 28 06:41
SeanTilleyIt's packaged with this Kubuntu Karmic alpha.Jun 28 06:41
fewai have it in jauntyJun 28 06:41
fewain GNOMEJun 28 06:41
fewasomehowJun 28 06:41
SeanTilleyWell, it beats what it used to look like in KDE.Jun 28 06:41
SeanTilleyUsed to flicker like crazy.Jun 28 06:41
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SeanTilleyOh neat, gloox is a jabber library for C++Jun 28 06:43
yuhongOverall, the discussion about Apple was very fun, though I don't agree with MinceR.Jun 28 06:44
SeanTilleyI have a mixed opinion on Apple.Jun 28 06:44
SeanTilleyVisually, their products are stunning.Jun 28 06:44
SeanTilleyButJun 28 06:44
SeanTilleyThey love their vendor lock-in.Jun 28 06:44
yuhongI know.Jun 28 06:44
yuhongMost of it is well known.Jun 28 06:45
SeanTilleyAlso, overhype amongst college kids is starting to drive me nuts.Jun 28 06:45
SeanTilley"Oh, I have a Mac, therefore I'm a creative ARTIST!"Jun 28 06:45
SeanTilleyNo, you were an artist when you picked up the brush.Jun 28 06:45
yuhongI don't think that was entirely undeserved.Jun 28 06:45
SeanTilleySorry, I deal with a lot of it from people my age just entering college.Jun 28 06:46
yuhongMacs always had a good reputation in that area.Jun 28 06:46
SeanTilleyIt grinds my gears a little.Jun 28 06:46
yuhongAnd his anti-Apple sediment.Jun 28 06:46
SeanTilleyWell I mean, use whatever software/hardware you like.Jun 28 06:47
SeanTilleyIt just annoys me when they flaunt it at me.Jun 28 06:47
yuhongI mean, I don't agree with MinceR's anti-Apple sediment.Jun 28 06:47
SeanTilleyWhat's his sediment about it?Jun 28 06:48
yuhongAnd I realise I forgot to mention about Linux being more componented than Windows.Jun 28 06:48
yuhongSeanTilley: He's anti-Apple, you will see it when the IRC logs are posted, and I don't agree..Jun 28 06:48
SeanTilleyAh, I see.Jun 28 06:49
yuhongI also forgot that I am actually using a PAE kernel primailly for NX.Jun 28 06:49
SeanTilleyhehJun 28 06:50
yuhongAnd Windows has an advantage here by the bootloader auto-detecting NX and loading hte PAE kernel.Jun 28 06:50
yuhongI only have 1.5 GB of RAM.Jun 28 06:51
yuhongTake Steve Job's letter for example.Jun 28 06:51
yuhongI was suprised when they still thought it was a PR stunt after Apple finally stopped selling DRM music in exchanged for tiered pricing.Jun 28 06:53
yuhongThen I mentioned that the letter talked only about music DRM, not any other kind of DRM.Jun 28 06:53
oiaohmLinux kernel supports NX and it is also auto detecting.   Exactly what is the advantage.   Windows does not exploit PAE to use more than 4 g of ram.Jun 28 06:54
yuhongCorrect, and that is what I mentioned in this discussion, but I forgot to mention that is not what actually led me to use a PAE kernel.Jun 28 06:54
yuhongAnd yes Fedora 11 is auto-detecting in it's installer and installing a PAE kernel if detected.Jun 28 06:55
yuhongAnyway, then they claim that SJ lied in one part of the letter, then in response I mentioned the tiered pricing in exchange for DRM-free again.Jun 28 06:56
oiaohmSame kernel with Linux can do PAE and non PAE.Jun 28 06:56
oiaohmYou really don't need two kernel images.Jun 28 06:56
yuhongNo, did you actually try configuring the Linux kernel.Jun 28 06:56
yuhongNo, did you actually try configuring the Linux kernel?Jun 28 06:56
yuhongNotice the HIGHMEM options.Jun 28 06:57
oiaohmI notice the HIGHMEM options.  I have used Highmem enabled kernels on CPU's that don't support PAE.Jun 28 06:57
yuhongI am talking about HIGHMEM64G.Jun 28 06:57
oiaohmThe kernel fails to a operational state.Jun 28 06:57
oiaohmIe cannot start PAE it falls back to the old system.Jun 28 06:58
yuhongThe kernel that run on non-PAE CPUs you are probably talking about HIGHMEM4G.Jun 28 06:58
yuhongLooks like you confused the two options.Jun 28 06:58
oiaohmHIGHMEN64GJun 28 06:58
oiaohmIt will fail to operational.Jun 28 06:59
yuhongProof, please?Jun 28 06:59
yuhong 28 07:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] hWhy do we allow the US to act like a failed state on climate change? ttp:// ...Jun 28 07:02
neighborleedidn't climate change billl just get acccepted or somethingJun 28 07:03
neighborleeI saw it today..briefly..Jun 28 07:03
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Software Fights the Lock-in of #FogComputing 28 07:12
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Movable Type Liberated in Melody 28 07:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Software Interest Rises Because of Cost 28 07:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Software in CRM is Growing Fast 28 07:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Free Software Coalition and Commitments in Asia 28 07:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Open Source Society" Enabled by the Web 28 07:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] PHP 5.3 Out Shortly , Free Software Revolutionises Programming 28 07:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Freedom of the Internet Embraced -- Not Attacked -- by Some Relics 28 07:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Video: GNU/Linux Pushes the Boundary of Fun Desktops 28 07:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google Laughs at 'Live'/MSN with New Skin ("Bling") 28 07:47
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schestowitzGood documentary 28 08:54
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_Goblinhi allJun 28 08:58
_Goblinwhat a fresh morning...Jun 28 08:58
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schestowitzHeyJun 28 09:09
schestowitz 28 09:13
schestowitzSarkofdascismJun 28 09:13
tacone 28 09:15
schestowitzPathetic, no?Jun 28 09:16
schestowitzHe doesn't link to rmsJun 28 09:16
taconeI don't like that post.Jun 28 09:17
taconeit's just propaganda.Jun 28 09:17
schestowitzThe morning after..Jun 28 09:17
tacone"Banshee is a better media player than Rhythmbox, Period. For new users it provides a more intuitive, friendlier and more modern interface." >>> BollocksJun 28 09:18
schestowitz"I believe Free Software developers should be free to contribute without being threatened with eviction from a community [4][5]"Jun 28 09:18
schestowitzLines are drawnJun 28 09:18
schestowitz 28 09:19
schestowitz"My complete name is Lluis Sanchez Gual, and I work as a developer for Novell."Jun 28 09:19
schestowitz"How to build MonoDevelop with Visual Studio"Jun 28 09:20
schestowitzBrad Kunn 28 09:21
schestowitz"c.f. Tomboy C++ rewrite effort as well ♻ @toros: !fsf !gnu @rms: Why free software shouldnt depend on #Mono or C# - "Jun 28 09:21
schestowitzJohn Sullivan (FSF) "!fsf rms warning about !debian and others depending on Mono: " < >Jun 28 09:21
_GoblinFound a great new shill...Jun 28 09:22
_Goblinand this one even tries to argue on my blog..Jun 28 09:23
_Goblinhe's nearly on a par with Andre Da Cost (who last night I posted evidence he posts as Mr Dee on CNET)Jun 28 09:23
schestowitz"I think a lot of people misunderstand @rms by thinking he's declaring a general rule when he's merely advising on a specific situation. !fsf " 28 09:23
schestowitzReally??Jun 28 09:23
schestowitzMr Dee the Microsoft shill is another person?Jun 28 09:24
_GoblinYep, latest article.Jun 28 09:24
_GoblinI believe Ive proved Mr Dee and Andre are the same.Jun 28 09:24
_Goblinmainly because of identical comments on both twitter and CNETJun 28 09:24
_Goblinand a love/mourning of MJJun 28 09:24
schestowitzBut why would he nymshift? 28 09:24
_Goblinto pimp his MS warez.  The Da Costa name is now toxic.Jun 28 09:25
_Goblinbut he still needs to get credit from his masters.Jun 28 09:25
_Goblin(IMO)Jun 28 09:25
_Goblinalso Mr Dee can backup Andre and allow him to try to gain that which he lost on MS Watch,Jun 28 09:25
_GoblinIf you look at the evidence, IMO its really pretty obvious.Jun 28 09:26
_Goblintwo identical posts by two different names on two different sites.Jun 28 09:26
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Mr Hussain doesnt seem to be able to debate. #Microsoft #windows #vistaJun 28 09:47
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schestowitz_Goblin: try to match some moreJun 28 09:55
schestowitzTry "mr dee costa" and some message textsJun 28 09:56
schestowitzI know Dee is upsetting FOSS bloggers in CNET.Jun 28 09:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Publishes Anti-Free/Open Source Software Paper via Lobbyists < >Jun 28 09:57
_Goblinsorry I was AFKJun 28 10:03
_Goblinwe also have the MJ mourning and the fact that the topics on both sites seem to follow the same subject path...Jun 28 10:04
_GoblinI think it was Chips who originally made the allegation of Mr Da Costa being Mr Dee.  Seems he was right all along.Jun 28 10:05
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schestowitzMany people mourned over MJJun 28 10:20
_Goblintrue, but if you read the comments you will see them the same on both accounts....Jun 28 10:36
_Goblinand the timing is the same, as is the change in subject...Jun 28 10:36
_Goblinto me the identical posts on two separate accounts is enough.Jun 28 10:37
schestowitzBut we know Cosiaman is plagiarising stuffJun 28 10:39
schestowitzLike press releaseJun 28 10:39
schestowitzWhy would he not just copy comments?Jun 28 10:39
_Goblinmm true...but remember that this allegation has been around for a while....Jun 28 10:40
_Goblinand its not a case of simply me noticing a duplicate post.Jun 28 10:40
schestowitzMaybe Dee is his laptop colleague ;-)Jun 28 10:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Bing Executive Quits Microsoft, But Microsoft Colony is Built at eBay < >Jun 28 10:42
oiaohmIf Dee and Costa are not the same person they are playing from the same play book.Jun 28 10:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Mr Hussain seems to delete posts he doesnt like: 28 10:47
oiaohm  Progress is progress.Jun 28 10:47
schestowitzoiaohm: : this book? 28 11:01
oiaohmPlay book more detailed than that one.  Ie one covering how to do responces and the like schestowitz.Jun 28 11:06
schestowitzYes, 'THE' handbookJun 28 11:09
oiaohmLinux has been following lot of that comes too.Jun 28 11:10
oiaohmDon't go head to head attack the edgesJun 28 11:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Responses to Richard Stallman’s Verdict on Mono < >Jun 28 11:17
oiaohm   Good read to see how far out of context the comes document is.Jun 28 11:18
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toahey guys i have a question why are you rebel on c#Jun 28 11:19
toaisnt c# a open standardJun 28 11:19
toa?Jun 28 11:19
toacan someone answer that questionJun 28 11:20
toais anyone hereJun 28 11:20
toa?????Jun 28 11:20
toacan you answer that questionJun 28 11:20
taconeyupJun 28 11:20
toaplease explainJun 28 11:21
taconetoa: c# being an open standard is a debated statement.Jun 28 11:21
taconei'll try to be briefJun 28 11:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Is it just me, or does anybody else have problems connecting to in !Pidgin? !xmppJun 28 11:22
tacone-> ecma submission is not regarded as a guaranteeJun 28 11:22
tacone-> parts of c# were not submitted to ecma btwJun 28 11:22
toaisnt c a ecma standardJun 28 11:22
tacone-> is doubtful the last evolutions of the c# specification has been submitted to ecma. so newer things may fall outJun 28 11:22
taconeC has been managed by ISO in the last 20 years AFAIKJun 28 11:23
toac# is ISO/IEC 23270Jun 28 11:23
tacone-> how to obtain a license from ECMA is doubtful. some people tried and couldn't.Jun 28 11:23
toaand ECMA-334Jun 28 11:24
oiaohmtoa is more a case of missing information.Jun 28 11:24
schestowitzECMA are a fraudJun 28 11:24
schestowitzYou pay them money to pretend stuff is standardJun 28 11:24
toaius ISO a fraud alsoJun 28 11:24
oiaohmMost other ISO/IEC standards have a clear list of patents covered.Jun 28 11:24
schestowitzThey are co-lobbyistsJun 28 11:24
toais*Jun 28 11:24
schestowitzISO got tarnished by MicrosoftJun 28 11:25
oiaohmC# and .net are both missing that list toaJun 28 11:25
taconeISO has been corrupted for OOXML, but that's another matter  :(Jun 28 11:25
schestowitz"Jun 28 11:25
schestowitz 28 11:25
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schestowitz"The disparity of rules for PAS, Fast-Track and ISO committee generated standards is fast making ISO a laughing stock in IT circles."Jun 28 11:25
oiaohmLack of openness about patents on standards validly causes fear of using the standard toaJun 28 11:25
toawell im confusedJun 28 11:25
oiaohmLot of people got burnt with the mp3 ISO standard.Jun 28 11:25
schestowitzg2g bblJun 28 11:26
toawe use c and its coverd by isoJun 28 11:26
oiaohmHidden patents are a worry toa.Jun 28 11:26
taconetoa: why didn't MS or novell put up a patent license like this ? 28 11:26
taconeit's not long to write.Jun 28 11:26
oiaohmDifference C is too old to be covered by patents toaJun 28 11:26
taconeand not a burden to review :)Jun 28 11:26
oiaohmAlso C standard when patents have applied they have been listed with the standard toa.Jun 28 11:27
toaok i understand there is a posiibility to be suedJun 28 11:27
oiaohmSince patents are public documents there is really no valid ground to keep them secret other than planing to use them agreasively.Jun 28 11:27
toai dont buy the agreasively partJun 28 11:28
toai dont think ms is out to get usJun 28 11:28
oiaohmProvide a valid reason not to state the patents.Jun 28 11:28
taconetoa: which other reason may there be to keep them secret ?Jun 28 11:29
taconetoa: MS is not chasing after you.Jun 28 11:29
toams is huge companyJun 28 11:29
oiaohmWhen you make a patent you give up the information from being 100 percent secret.Jun 28 11:29
taconeMS is chasing start upsJun 28 11:29
toathey have management problemnsJun 28 11:29
toathat my opinionJun 28 11:29
oiaohmIf MS has management problems over patents that means using anything made by MS could be a furture libibality.Jun 28 11:30
taconetoa: 28 11:30
oiaohmSo no one sould be using MS products.Jun 28 11:30
oiaohmSorry ToaJun 28 11:30
oiaohmNot an option.Jun 28 11:30
taconetoa: yes they have. and shareholders problemsJun 28 11:30
oiaohmLinux foundation runs a team particularly to manage the patent issues of the Linux kernel.Jun 28 11:31
taconeit's not that everybody in MS is evil. the same goes for novell et.Jun 28 11:31
toabut you could win a trial because steve ballmer opnly supported MonoJun 28 11:32
toaopenly*Jun 28 11:32
oiaohmNo.Jun 28 11:32
oiaohmWhat ballmer said does not allow unlimit usage.Jun 28 11:32
oiaohmOne of the myths from the mono camp toaJun 28 11:33
taconepublic statements have limited or no valueJun 28 11:33
taconeballmer also stated the opposite regarding Mono usage by non-novell-customersJun 28 11:33
toai know a lawyer who can surelly win tis trialJun 28 11:33
toathis*Jun 28 11:33
oiaohmSorry I know lawyers so say the other way.Jun 28 11:34
taconetoa: talk is cheap :)Jun 28 11:34
oiaohmI have had it reviewed toaJun 28 11:34
oiaohmOnly party who can for sure ship mono is Novell.Jun 28 11:34
oiaohmEveryone else shipping it is playing with legal fire.Jun 28 11:34
toaok i dont agree with you but ok if you so sayJun 28 11:35
taconenopeJun 28 11:35
taconei don't think even novell is safeJun 28 11:35
oiaohmAlso Novell deal only lasts 5 years.Jun 28 11:35
taconeif it is, not for long (2012)Jun 28 11:35
oiaohmThen Novell will be in the same boat as everyone less.Jun 28 11:35
taconeone common misconception is that MS is in control of what they do. they aren't. It's a large company, you told that.Jun 28 11:36
toait dont think novell is stupidJun 28 11:36
toathey would playy if they would play safeJun 28 11:36
toawouldnt*Jun 28 11:36
oiaohmLOLJun 28 11:36
oiaohmYou really don't know novell toaJun 28 11:36
toai work for themJun 28 11:36
taconetoa: me neither. but I don't know the kinds of interest they have in the matter.Jun 28 11:36
*tacone doesn't knows novell eitherJun 28 11:36
oiaohmHistory of Novell shows lots of cases where they have done deals that are not wise.Jun 28 11:37
taconenovell is basing their business so much on mono these days it's difficult to foresee their future.Jun 28 11:37
oiaohmFor short term profit.Jun 28 11:37
toafor long time loss that is just ridiculousJun 28 11:37
toabeside novell is not runned by the same people they once wereJun 28 11:38
oiaohmOf course so people don't have the experience of being stupid and knowing not to repeat it.Jun 28 11:39
taconewere slipping into subjective mattersJun 28 11:40
oiaohmSimple problem with .net is that it does not intergrate with native apis on Linux well so requires extreamly heavy wrappers.Jun 28 11:40
oiaohm.Net is going to follow the path of java.  Another flash in the pan before being forced back into a edge to be forgoten about.Jun 28 11:41
taconetoa: you develop on mono or develop mono itself ?Jun 28 11:41
toadevelop on monoJun 28 11:41
oiaohmHave you played with vala at all toaJun 28 11:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Wow, Mr Hussain was relentless. I hope people enjoy watching him squirm out of his own comments... #windows #microsoft #vista #xpJun 28 11:42
toaok guys i have to go nice chating with youJun 28 11:42
oiaohmVala has taken the idea of C# and tried to be as thin as possiable to the internal apis of gnome.Jun 28 11:42
taconebye !Jun 28 11:42
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taconeinteresting.Jun 28 11:42
oiaohmI like toa claim that he works for them.Jun 28 11:44
taconeno, he claimed to develop mono appsJun 28 11:45
oiaohmScroll back to just above your Doesn't knows novell either.Jun 28 11:45
taconeoh !Jun 28 11:46
taconeinteresting.Jun 28 11:46
taconedevelops mono apps for novell ?Jun 28 11:46
taconea banshee dev? could it be ?Jun 28 11:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] before I forget, a big thank you to Andre for linking that site.Its nice to highlight FUD and Andre (or Mr Dee?) helps that cause greatly.Jun 28 11:47
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] I think it says it all when the person who jumps to the defense of Mr Hussain actually admits to infringing copyright...great counter.Jun 28 12:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] A new VFAT patent avoidance patch: 28 12:12
*ziggyfish ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 28 12:13
ziggyfishanother MS product scrapped - 28 12:13
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trmancoomfgJun 28 12:19
trmancowhat an idiotJun 28 12:19
trmanco 28 12:24
trmancowhat happened to this?Jun 28 12:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Ksplice Offers Rebootless Updates For Ubuntu Systems: 28 12:32
ziggyfishInstalled Ksplice the other day, seems interstingJun 28 12:35
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trmanco 28 12:39
trmancoLinus posted to cola once :-PJun 28 12:40
taconedrunk ?Jun 28 12:43
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[nandanator] Was a good day .. Hope the week ahead is also the same? :SJun 28 13:07
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_Hicham_Hi oiaohm!Jun 28 13:49
oiaohmHi _Hicham_Jun 28 13:50
_Hicham_howdy?Jun 28 13:50
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_Hicham_oiaohm : KMS is not working anymore in 2.6.30 and 2.6.31Jun 28 14:00
oiaohmYou did build staging?Jun 28 14:00
oiaohmATI KMS driver is in the staging section of 2.6.31Jun 28 14:01
oiaohmOr otherwise know as the tainted_crap section.Jun 28 14:01
oiaohm  << Ouch.Jun 28 14:05
_Hicham_oiaohm : I took the stock kernel from fedoraJun 28 14:05
oiaohmOk hand of god.Jun 28 14:06
oiaohm2.6.30 pure main line does not have the ATI patches.Jun 28 14:06
oiaohm2.6.31 pure main line has it but you have to chose to build expermental bits.Jun 28 14:07
_Hicham_I don't know why fedora didn't include it in 2.6.30 and 2.6.31Jun 28 14:09
_Hicham_though it works marvellously in 2.6.29Jun 28 14:09
schestowitzHeh. 28 14:11
oiaohm2.6.31 they missed enabling it _Hicham_Jun 28 14:15
_Hicham_how comes?Jun 28 14:16
_Hicham_it is really weirdJun 28 14:16
oiaohmIt happens.Jun 28 14:17
oiaohmHopefully by the time 2.6.31 is proper released matching mesa will be released.Jun 28 14:18
oiaohmThere is also no ATI KMS patch for 2.6.30Jun 28 14:19
oiaohmSomeone would have to back port one.Jun 28 14:19
oiaohm_Hicham_: its pure time of flux issues.Jun 28 14:21
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schestowitzMicrosoft shill, now MS employee: 28 14:37
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schestowitzI knew what shill wrote this based on the title alone (the Microsoft shills are very busy): 28 14:40
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schestowitz (Exposed: Halo3 ODST modder makes a threat to Microsoft)Jun 28 14:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Preparing a talk about United Patent Litigation System tomorrow at HSF2009: Live streaming: 28 14:52
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Among the headlines for Windows, "Vista" matches just 3 this week, with overlap with Vista 7, which has 44 results. Vapourware indeed.Jun 28 14:57
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schestowitzGoogle in fantasy land: Google: Less Unhappy Days Are Here Again < >Jun 28 15:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Drug wars (how to addict children to Fog computing): 28 15:02
schestowitzWhoa. "Prior to Microsoft, Elliott spent 22 years at IBM."Jun 28 15:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] dammit I must have ONE working 2.5" HD spare. At least to check the interface isn't buggered too. @secretlondon @hawkeviper yr disks welcomeJun 28 15:07
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Antitrust: Commission statement on Microsoft Internet Explorer announcement < >Jun 28 15:12
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csaxcommunicating bout anything ?Jun 28 15:13
schestowitzAnother troublemaking ACT: ACT wanted in on federal Microsoft deal <,130061733,339297061,00.htm?omnRef=1337 >Jun 28 15:14
schestowitzcsax: hiJun 28 15:14
schestowitzYes, what's up?Jun 28 15:14
csaxhiJun 28 15:14
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft's Ballmer Apologizes for "Poorly Chosen Words" < > He never apologised for "Linux is like a cancer"Jun 28 15:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @waldyrious Musical chairs and reproducibility drills - Reproducible Ideas 28 15:17
schestowitz"Microsoft (Nasdaq: MSFT) is flush with cash, but in a few days it will be out of Money. " 28 15:18
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Listening to "I-Robots: Italo Electro Disco Underground Classics" (2004); evidently the '80s never ended.Jun 28 15:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] the weather appears to be oppressing everyone. i am hopped up on green tea just to be able to type.Jun 28 15:32
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schestowitz "For a decade, Johnson tried to hire Elliott at Microsoft. But she was a bleed-Blue loyalist. Caving in 2001, she flew from Connecticut to Seattle on September 10. Her first day at Microsoft was 9/11. "Jun 28 15:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] that's quite enough italian disco kthx. durutti column "another setting" is considerably better and suits the weather. rainy spring in perthJun 28 15:42
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schestowitznew page: 28 15:43
EruaranThe US DoJ is thoroughly corruptJun 28 15:44
ToXedVirusnoJun 28 15:44
ugufjhfjThe US is thoroughly corruptJun 28 15:44
ToXedVirusthe US are corruptJun 28 15:44
ToXedVirusyeah ugufjhfj ;>Jun 28 15:45
schestowitzBoth areJun 28 15:45
schestowitzEruaran: the DOJ was cleaner wrt MS prior to 1998Jun 28 15:45
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schestowitzI was told MS pushed many cronies into it amid antitrustJun 28 15:46
EruaranThey have even been involved in the illegal convictions of US citizens on false charges of tax evasion, aiding and abetting the IRS in its illegal activities.Jun 28 15:46
schestowitzIt's like ISO and other bodies that MS captures from the inside. Unless you watch it VERY closely, you won't even be able to identify who the cronies areJun 28 15:46
schestowitzBarnett is one example,He's an anti-Googole DOJer now. used to work for MS.Jun 28 15:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Master list for future Comes work (ODF): 28 15:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Kofi Annan ICT Centre advocates GNU/Linux: 28 15:47
EruaranThe DoJ also works on behalf of the IRSJun 28 15:47
EruaranWhich is basically the same as being in the pocket of the MafiaJun 28 15:47
schestowitzIRS is seen as unconsititutionalJun 28 15:50
schestowitzI think several notable people have proven thisJun 28 15:50
schestowitzBut it's worth to be wrongly accused of crimes and be almost tortured under false pretenses. 28 15:51
_Hicham_ 28 15:52
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schestowitz"Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name."Jun 28 15:57
fewa"enterprise software"Jun 28 15:58
fewamore of that bullshitJun 28 15:58
_Hicham_are u against enterprise software?Jun 28 15:58
fewaits just a filler wordJun 28 15:59
fewait said they were considering open source over enterprise software from MicrosftJun 28 15:59
fewaMicrosoft doesnt make custom stuff AFAIKJun 28 15:59
schestowitzUSS Starship EnterpriseJun 28 15:59
schestowitzJohnny here runs an enterprise with his wifeJun 28 16:00
fewafalse qualifiers are evilJun 28 16:00
schestowitzIt's not a mom-n-pop shop, it's an enterprise. Johnny Limited Co.Jun 28 16:00
fewait also insinuates only large entities can have software that is any goodJun 28 16:00
schestowitzOf courseJun 28 16:01
schestowitzAnd Free software is not enterprise :-pJun 28 16:01
schestowitzEnterprise are RICH RICH RICHJun 28 16:01
schestowitzNo "Free lunch"Jun 28 16:01
schestowitzThe more you pay the better :-pJun 28 16:01
fewaEnterprise == expensive crapJun 28 16:01
schestowitzEnterprise EditionJun 28 16:02
schestowitzCommon among some 'open source' companiesJun 28 16:02
schestowitzEnterprises are private tyranniesJun 28 16:02
schestowitzThey are built and structured like totalitarian argimesJun 28 16:02
fewawell, then its usually part of their marketing groupJun 28 16:02
schestowitzThey also possess to means to destroy people who dare to stand up to them, and they doJun 28 16:02
schestowitz*regimesJun 28 16:03
fewaand as long as the "enterprise edition" is essentially the same thing, maybe with a dump gui tool added on, then it isnt a big dealJun 28 16:03
_Hicham_enterprise edition is an edition with technical supportJun 28 16:03
fewajust participating in the psycological situation set up by M$Jun 28 16:03
fewathats fineJun 28 16:03
_Hicham_that is enterprise edition in open source worldJun 28 16:04
fewaselling it as a edition with support is fine, but thats not what M$ and the propritary software companies doJun 28 16:04
_Hicham_I am talking about open source worldJun 28 16:04
schestowitzMicrosoft has just INNOVA~1 again: Microsoft confirms motion-camera firm buyout < >Jun 28 16:04
schestowitz_Hicham_: no, it's PRJun 28 16:04
schestowitzEneterprise is a game of associationsJun 28 16:04
fewaits Fear, Uncertainty, and DoubtJun 28 16:05
_Hicham_for the proprietary world, yesJun 28 16:05
schestowitzPart of the whole Forbes, Fortune, BusinessWeek Benjamins orgyJun 28 16:05
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_Hicham_but what RedHat model is completely ethicalJun 28 16:05
fewaabsolutelyJun 28 16:05
schestowitzNot according to FSFJun 28 16:05
schestowitzBut it's GPL compliantJun 28 16:06
fewaits not badJun 28 16:06
schestowitzI think he last spoke about this with ORLY guy last monthJun 28 16:06
*Eruaran has quit ("No Ping reply in 90 seconds.")Jun 28 16:06
fewathey still spread misinformation over what you can and cannot do with the softwareJun 28 16:07
schestowitzMicrosoft Defends Its Empire < > <----- Sucking up to MicrosoftJun 28 16:07
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schestowitzMore PR from BWJun 28 16:07
*Eruaran ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 28 16:07
schestowitzMicrosoft Extends XP Downgrade Option Until 2011 < > Nothing to do with Linux???Jun 28 16:08
fewaschestowitz, cause google apps provides the same thing for freeJun 28 16:08
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_Hicham_FSF is 100% Ok with RedHat?Jun 28 16:09
fewa<schestowitz> Not according to FSFJun 28 16:09
_Hicham_really weirdJun 28 16:10
_Hicham_RMS encourage people to make money from softwareJun 28 16:10
fewaThey do the model they do because business don't understand free softwareJun 28 16:12
twitterha ha XP in 2011 a Suck OddityJun 28 16:12
fewaat least some of themJun 28 16:12
_Hicham_MS always say that is not possible to make money from free softwareJun 28 16:14
_Hicham_RedHat does some proprietary stuff for a whileJun 28 16:14
_Hicham_until they recover developments costsJun 28 16:14
fewaRedHat stock price has been boomingJun 28 16:14
fewaand they provide good products along with the flexibility of the GPLJun 28 16:15
schestowitztwitter: that's like still supporting Red hat 5Jun 28 16:17
schestowitzNot RHEL5Jun 28 16:17
schestowitzBut some Linux desktop from 1999Jun 28 16:18
twitterNo, Red Hat 5 was better.Jun 28 16:18
schestowitzfewa: I'd show you what RMS said if I knew where to find it nowJun 28 16:18
schestowitzIt was an interviewJun 28 16:18
twitterXP still has a poor network stack.Jun 28 16:18
schestowitzVIsta even worseJun 28 16:18
schestowitzThey rewrote what they hadJun 28 16:18
schestowitzThey 'stole' from BSDJun 28 16:19
twitterRed Hat 5.1 had X, virtual desktops and a lot of other good fundamentals.Jun 28 16:19
schestowitzAnd in Vista it got worseJun 28 16:19
schestowitzIt'll be the same in Vista7 (Vista.1), needless to sayJun 28 16:19
schestowitz"But look, ma, it's shiny"Jun 28 16:19
fewamy brother still runs RH 8Jun 28 16:19
fewaand it runs welJun 28 16:19
schestowitz 28 16:20
fewahad 1.5yr uptimeJun 28 16:20
schestowitzMicrosoft to world & Dog: we broke the Web and we don't care how you feel about itJun 28 16:20
fewaschestowitz, yeah the outlook stuff was horribleJun 28 16:20
fewathey are in a point where they feel that heedingto customer demand means giving into the market and letting customers see competitorsJun 28 16:21
twitter 28 16:22
twitter2 results.Jun 28 16:22
fewabut by doing this they just create an opening with the demand they leftJun 28 16:22
schestowitztwitter: what do you know about Goldman Sachs and MSJun 28 16:22
schestowitzI have some old evidence of the connection, but it's worth exploring moreJun 28 16:23
twitternot much off the top of my headJun 28 16:23
schestowitzAlso the relationships with MS' CFOs (prior) and top execsJun 28 16:23
twitterthe obvious connection is that Wall Street in general shoveled M$FT into everyone's retirement fund.Jun 28 16:24
*Eruaran has quit ("No Ping reply in 90 seconds.")Jun 28 16:24
twitterHuge Theft.Jun 28 16:24
schestowitztwitter: we had more refsJun 28 16:24
schestowitzShills keep removing thoseJun 28 16:24
twitteryes, I imagine so.Jun 28 16:24
twitter"reputation defenders"Jun 28 16:24
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fewapage?Jun 28 16:25
schestowitzWe were on ISOJun 28 16:25
schestowitzAlso on Novell's pageJun 28 16:25
schestowitzBut the shills remove theseJun 28 16:25
schestowitzOSI's president told meJun 28 16:25
twitteryou should also be a reference for ODF, OOXML, Microsoft and many others.Jun 28 16:25
fewarearranging the deck chair on the hidenburgJun 28 16:25
schestowitztwitter gives them idea with Wiipedia site searchersJun 28 16:25
schestowitzThat's how the cleansers would go aboutJun 28 16:26
schestowitzTake SITE_X to the cleanersJun 28 16:26
schestowitzDDOS, removal, smears, etc.Jun 28 16:26
schestowitzNovell employees spread lies about meJun 28 16:26
twitterM$ lies about everyone.Jun 28 16:27
twitterIt's the only way they know how to complete.  It's not like they can write software.Jun 28 16:27
twitterThey don't just lie, they persistently harass and seek to destroy.Jun 28 16:28
twitterVery evil people.Jun 28 16:28
schestowitzMicrosoft Word alternative keeps getting better 28 16:28
ToXedVirusOMG are you for serious?Jun 28 16:28
schestowitztwitter: they prepare templatesJun 28 16:28
twitterExamples, Tim Bray, Peter Guttmann, Peter Quinn.Jun 28 16:28
schestowitzLike dossiersJun 28 16:28
schestowitzAnd they pass them off to dismiss peopleJun 28 16:28
schestowitzThey falsely accuse me of blaming Reiser's murder on MicrosoftJun 28 16:29
schestowitzIt's a lie that they keep repeating and spreadingJun 28 16:29
fewano mention of wtfJun 28 16:29
schestowitzfewa: silly Mac sitesJun 28 16:29
schestowitzWatching MS news these days is enjoryableJun 28 16:29
schestowitzThey got NOTHING.Jun 28 16:29
fewathey mention like 10 mac-only programs and not the biggest Office competitorJun 28 16:29
schestowitzWell, actually no..Jun 28 16:30
schestowitzThey have Vista7Jun 28 16:30
schestowitzMany headlines about a product that does not existJun 28 16:30
fewacorrection: the biggest alternative, all ODF software doesnt really cmpeteJun 28 16:30
schestowitzMS Collusionware 3.0: 28 16:30
fewa(conforming ODF)Jun 28 16:30
twitterThose have mostly been upsell stories, a repeat of the Vista Capable fiascoJun 28 16:30
twitter"Give us your money now and we promise Vista 7 will work with your computer when we release it."  Ha, ha.Jun 28 16:31
schestowitzWhat was that mapping service for connection..Jun 28 16:31
twitterWho's going to be dumb enough to fall for that one again?Jun 28 16:31
schestowitzLet me check something..Jun 28 16:31
ToXedVirusI thought this is a linux fanatics channelJun 28 16:31
ToXedViruswhy do you even bother talking about windows?Jun 28 16:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] DW/LJ: Organ donor. 28 16:32
ToXedVirusIts an unholy word, i will kill you for saying it out loud!Jun 28 16:32
fewathats the first thing i do when someone trusts me with their ocmputerJun 28 16:32
fewai install firefox and openofficeJun 28 16:32
twitterToXedVirus, I'd love to hear some good free software news.Jun 28 16:32
fewaand if they have a fake DNS ISP i switch their DNSJun 28 16:32
ToXedVirusheh, that good news was when vista was releasedJun 28 16:32
schestowitz 28 16:33
schestowitz 28 16:34
amarsh04I put the Free pdf viewer Jakarta on the step-daughter's windows machine, along with firefox and openoffice and avgJun 28 16:34
schestowitz 28 16:35
fewageeze this might throw kinks in In Re BilskiJun 28 16:35
amarsh04adobe pdf reader was on the machine but the eula looked badJun 28 16:35
fewapeople need to keep a close reading to that case and any legislations effectJun 28 16:35
ToXedVirusamarsh04 isn't the adobe reader free?Jun 28 16:35
fewaamarsh04, adobe PDF is a huge security riskJun 28 16:36
amarsh04not free as in freedom, and it phones homeJun 28 16:36
amarsh04and is huge compared to Jakarta which has source code availableJun 28 16:36
_Hicham_Adobe Reader is a real memory hogJun 28 16:36
amarsh04or is it Sumatra - sorry for any confusionJun 28 16:36
fewasecurity is my main problem with itJun 28 16:36
fewait has had fully remote exploitable security problemsJun 28 16:37
fewathat can compramise the full user accountJun 28 16:37
ToXedVirusDoes that freeproject have a website? I cant find it easily on googleJun 28 16:37
fewacause they dont just make it render the damn pageJun 28 16:37
fewaabout the tom tom article: Even current windows support ext2Jun 28 16:40
fewathrough a kernel mode driver, that is very well implamentedJun 28 16:40
amarsh04Sumatra is the correct name: 28 16:40
fewahas support for hidden files == . and i believe even symbolic linksJun 28 16:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Payola bloggers, FTC is watching you < >. They should go after those feeding with bribes, e.g. Edelman, W-E...Jun 28 16:42
*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovellJun 28 16:43
fewaschestowitz, lol BillG has a patent mill in his houseJun 28 16:43
fewathats goodJun 28 16:43
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schestowitz Ubuntu Wiki lock-inJun 28 16:48
schestowitzWhat's this about?Jun 28 16:48
fewaschestowitz, it that is true than the ubuntu wiki violates copyrightsJun 28 16:49
fewacause there is plenty of GFDL1.2+ (which is mostly CC-BY-SA-3.0 now) and CC stuffJun 28 16:49
fewahmm the wiki is downJun 28 16:51
fewaprobably FUDJun 28 16:52
schestowitzfewa: ask tacone Jun 28 16:53
schestowitzI read it very quicklyJun 28 16:53
fewaIt would have been nice if you had checked it before just repeating it: 28 16:53
fewaThat’s something that Matthew East worked on and the CC approved it.Jun 28 16:53
fewathe second commentJun 28 16:53
taconejust a terroristic headlineJun 28 16:53
fewabut i cant see the page cause its downJun 28 16:53
schestowitzfewa: Gates will "heal the World" with patentsJun 28 16:53
taconethere are issue with the ubuntu wiki licensing. it's simply not decided yetJun 28 16:53
fewawhere did that come from?Jun 28 16:53
schestowitzPharma patents, software patents, software coupons for kids in college, etc.Jun 28 16:53
schestowitzThey sure "care about us"Jun 28 16:54
taconeso fedora people are not sure if and how they can copy things from it.Jun 28 16:54
fewathats the general PRJun 28 16:54
fewaselling us bak our freedom peacemealJun 28 16:54
fewashould be CC-BY-SA-3.0Jun 28 16:54
taconecanonical looked in the issue sometime ago. they have a blueprint etcJun 28 16:54
taconebut they never got done anything about it.Jun 28 16:54
fewaif there is GFDL stuff, or if they want to protect themselves from GFDL problems they need to act nowJun 28 16:55
fewaas that GFDL 1.3 clause will expireJun 28 16:55
*schestowitz thinks of logging on while on vacation just to edit the BN wiki massively.Jun 28 16:55
taconeyet, I'm a bastard who copy pasted that planet fedora post without looking at their (never realized) specificationJun 28 16:55
schestowitzWe need a Vista7 failure list for exampleJun 28 16:56
fewaalso mention that Vista 7 even identifys itsself as windows 6.1, ie vista.1Jun 28 16:56
fewaperhapsJun 28 16:56
MinceRi thought twitter was making one alreadyJun 28 16:57
twitteryes, it's a little sloppy right now.  I've been busy with other work. 28 16:58
twitterI also have a Vista 7 hype log. 28 16:59
MinceR:)Jun 28 16:59
schestowitztwitter: we can mergeJun 28 16:59
schestowitzI need to do one for BN postsJun 28 16:59
schestowitzIndexes of articlesJun 28 16:59
twitterYou are welcome to anything in those logs.Jun 28 16:59
schestowitzI was planning time offline, but I can't help going online to check up some stuffJun 28 17:00
twitteroh myJun 28 17:00
schestowitzI need to make indexes that identify MS lobbyists tooJun 28 17:00
schestowitzBut if I read the news, then I get tempted to write about itJun 28 17:00
_Hicham_I am an MS lobbyistJun 28 17:00
twitteryou don't really need to, you just really want to.Jun 28 17:00
schestowitzDoing the Wiki resolves the issue of temptation to writeJun 28 17:00
twitterI understand the feeling.Jun 28 17:01
schestowitzGroklaw took a break to organise pages, as wellJun 28 17:01
schestowitz_Hicham_: yes, IBM wants you. You are WANTEDJun 28 17:01
_Hicham_I am gonna buy MS and Novell soonJun 28 17:01
_Hicham_why would IBM wants me?Jun 28 17:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Watch the Murdoch press airing political anti-EU (trade violations mixed with "agenda"): 28 17:02
twitterGreat lies are so insulting.Jun 28 17:02
schestowitzDman.Jun 28 17:02
schestowitzI can't find on Youtube just the "wanted dead or alive" quote from bushJun 28 17:03
schestowitzI can only find one that's PRJun 28 17:03
schestowitzThe Bush apology: 28 17:03
schestowitzre: "dead or alive" and "bring em on"Jun 28 17:03
fewayeah what bullshitJun 28 17:03
fewaEurope trade is greatJun 28 17:03
schestowitzWho's the target?? :-)Jun 28 17:03
schestowitz"Bribe em on [...] to the white house..?"Jun 28 17:04
schestowitz"Bring em on Bring em on Bring em on Bring em on Bring em on Bring em on "Jun 28 17:04
schestowitzWatch this videoJun 28 17:04
schestowitzHe's like a kid... he talks like a child.Jun 28 17:04
schestowitzWorse than Palin.Jun 28 17:05
fewa"Mission Accomplished!"Jun 28 17:05
*dlmarti has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jun 28 17:05
_Hicham_schestowitz : 28 17:05
schestowitzMS: US falls behind in spending on innovation < >Jun 28 17:06
fewa:PJun 28 17:06
schestowitzThey try to justify offshoringJun 28 17:06
fewaschestowitz, look at the sidebar PRJun 28 17:07
schestowitzfewa: /what/ mission?Jun 28 17:07
fewathats the problem, hes a kid, its just "mission accomplished!"Jun 28 17:07
schestowitzGI BushJun 28 17:07
schestowitzYikesJun 28 17:08
schestowitzI better get that guy.Jun 28 17:08
schestowitzMake a killing for a million :-pJun 28 17:08
schestowitz 28 17:08
schestowitz_Hicham_ already paints a target on meJun 28 17:08
schestowitzfewa: yes, it's pro-MSJun 28 17:09
_Hicham_ 28 17:09
fewa100% of itJun 28 17:09
schestowitzSee BN archives... they also host Enderlies.Jun 28 17:09
schestowitzPayola bloggers, FTC is watching you < >Jun 28 17:09
schestowitzEnderle is watchedJun 28 17:09
schestowitzHe keeps a mustache for camouflage Jun 28 17:10
*ugufjhfj ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 28 17:10
fewajust put this in adblock: > :not(#inner_wrapper)Jun 28 17:10 > :not(#content_lr)Jun 28 17:10
schestowitzMinceR: fill the blank: (What drives Steve Jobs?)Jun 28 17:11
MinceRhe should just hurry upJun 28 17:11
_Hicham_ 28 17:11
_Hicham_ 28 17:12
schestowitz_Hicham_: ah, that's historyJun 28 17:12
schestowitzMy incarnation post-2007 is feistier Jun 28 17:12
schestowitzIt has Chris Pirillo linksJun 28 17:13
schestowitz_Hicham_: I mailed it to a cousin for kicks because he likes those "put your face here" sitesJun 28 17:14
schestowitzThese used to be popular in print before the Internet was around. DisneyWorld might still do these.Jun 28 17:14
_Hicham_maybe it is Chris Pirillo sponsoredJun 28 17:15
schestowitzZoho sells out: 28 17:15
schestowitz_Hicham_: I.e. MS-sponsoredJun 28 17:15
schestowitzYou know where Chris gets his funds,..Jun 28 17:15
_Hicham_Yes, I know thatJun 28 17:15
_Hicham_soon it will be Hicham-sponsoredJun 28 17:15
_Hicham_when I will have a lot of moneyJun 28 17:16
schestowitzWhen I go on vacation next week I'll expand the Wiki a lot. 28 17:17
schestowitzSomeone just sent me some adviceJun 28 17:17
schestowitzThe Comes page is PageRank 6 and this stuff does get accessed as it gets tidier.Jun 28 17:17
schestowitzA lawyer I speak to might use it.Jun 28 17:18
schestowitz"It's something I wanted to do for many years but never found theJun 28 17:18
schestowitztime. There's going to be a fair bit of overlap with the ComesJun 28 17:18
schestowitzexhibits. But there should be a good supply of other MicrosoftJun 28 17:18
schestowitzdocuments because the Comes case settled well before the plaintiffsJun 28 17:18
schestowitzfinished presenting their case.Jun 28 17:18
schestowitzA tip that might come in handy if you retain the table format. TheJun 28 17:18
schestowitzdates in the third column are somewhat problematic to sort, at leastJun 28 17:18
schestowitzin OOo 2.4. (Haven't checked in OOo 3.x). If you can script somethingJun 28 17:18
schestowitzto switch the dates from MM/DD/YYYY format to YYYY/MM/DD format, youJun 28 17:18
schestowitzcould then do a row sort by the third column to produce a timelineJun 28 17:18
schestowitzversion of the exhibit list. Sort by the first column to switch themJun 28 17:18
schestowitzback into exhibit number order.Jun 28 17:18
schestowitzOTOH, you could export the table to CSV, then get its entries into aJun 28 17:18
schestowitzrelational database that can give you more flexibility in creatingJun 28 17:18
schestowitzviews, adding columns and fields, etc. Word processor tables reallyJun 28 17:18
schestowitzaren't the best tool for this kind of data."Jun 28 17:18
twittergnumeric and most reasonable software can sort dates regardless of format.  I wonder what they were trying to sort with.Jun 28 17:20
twitterDon't waste too much time on that one, reasonable people will do good things with what's important - your actual research.Jun 28 17:21
twitterOf course, if you enjoy that kind of problem it would not be a bad thing to do on your vacation.  :)Jun 28 17:22
*tacone has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jun 28 17:23
schestowitz"That teenager, who goes by the name Ubuntu..." 28 17:25
schestowitztwitter: we need HTML, so no tables per seJun 28 17:25
schestowitzI'm pretty happy with how the Wiki works, overall. But it needs tons of workJun 28 17:25
fewaughh paid articlesJun 28 17:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] the bread all turned green. went out for more. b33r and whine too. we are now drinking it. dinner will be whatever's on hand. kids'll live.Jun 28 17:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #michaeljackson is still front page of EVERY PAPER. apparently he's still dead. who knew?Jun 28 17:27
schestowitzMJ 'ruins' the music channels tooJun 28 17:27
fewalolJun 28 17:27
schestowitzSeveral days after his death Chart Show is just MJ all the timeJun 28 17:27
schestowitzNot that I mind itJun 28 17:27
schestowitzI like MJ's music (as a whole)Jun 28 17:27
fewaand they will be attacking anyone who plays his music for the next 50 yearsJun 28 17:28
schestowitzWhy?Jun 28 17:28
schestowitzIt's no Gary GlitterJun 28 17:28
fewacopyrightJun 28 17:28
schestowitzOhJun 28 17:28
fewawithout paying the mighty SONYJun 28 17:28
schestowitzSnoop : the king of potJun 28 17:28
schestowitzMJ: kind of popJun 28 17:28
schestowitz*ngJun 28 17:28
fewalolJun 28 17:28
schestowitzBritney: queen of poopJun 28 17:29
_Hicham_king of pop is schestowitzJun 28 17:29
schestowitzI don't sing, _Hicham_ Jun 28 17:29
schestowitzI suck at itJun 28 17:29
schestowitz 28 17:29
schestowitzPeople pretend Vista 7 already existsJun 28 17:30
schestowitzThis is bad. This is like PR.Jun 28 17:30
schestowitz"I use a laptop that has both Ubuntu and Windows 7 installed." 28 17:31
schestowitzFunny. I didn't know time travel from October was possible. Vista 7 does not exist yet.Jun 28 17:31
_Hicham_schestowitz : just like we use RC distrosJun 28 17:32
fewawow, Jobim, Gilberto,Jun 28 17:32
fewaGetzJun 28 17:32
fewayou have that Getz and Gilberto album?Jun 28 17:32
fewawith Girl from Impanima as the first track?Jun 28 17:33
schestowitzCan I add patent lawyers to BN IRC aggregator?Jun 28 17:34
schestowitzI mean, should we have some of them to keep track of EU and swpats?Jun 28 17:34
fewasureJun 28 17:34
twitterIck, US TV - devoid of reality and drifting further towards the most crass kinds of exploitation.  Basketball coach who becomes a whore and enjoys it, "political orthodoxy" pap.Jun 28 17:34
schestowitzfewa: I have loadsJun 28 17:34
fewa(speaking for myself)Jun 28 17:34
fewai love that cuban and brazilian stuffJun 28 17:34
schestowitzIt's soothingJun 28 17:34
schestowitzI also don't get distractedJun 28 17:35
fewaAfro Cuban all  starsJun 28 17:35
schestowitzCause the lyrics mean nothing to meJun 28 17:35
twittertry silenceJun 28 17:35
fewa^^Jun 28 17:35
schestowitzThey support Free softwareJun 28 17:35
twittervery relaxing.Jun 28 17:35
fewai like silence tooJun 28 17:35
schestowitzJobim..Jun 28 17:35
fewaI love playing Cuban musicJun 28 17:35
schestowitzSilence is good if you live in quiet placesJun 28 17:36
schestowitzNo traffic, no colleagues, no neighbours, no stormsJun 28 17:36
twitterthere is noise here, not so badJun 28 17:36
*ThistleWeb (n=gordon@ has joined #boycottnovellJun 28 17:36
fewaPaquito D'RiveraJun 28 17:36
twitterstorms are niceJun 28 17:36
schestowitzShould I add ?Jun 28 17:37
schestowitztwitter: esp. if you don't need to be on the way back homeJun 28 17:37
schestowitzSomeone's angry.Jun 28 17:40
schestowitz"Roy Schestowitz (of is a dick. Period. I would never respect anyone who spends more effort spreading fear and bringing things down rather than contributing anything significant."Jun 28 17:40
twitterWow, those were clever windows.Jun 28 17:40
schestowitzCourtesy of "Fuck you, Richard Stallman and other GNU/Trolls" < >Jun 28 17:40
schestowitzApparently RMS is a troll nowJun 28 17:41
schestowitzHe's a GNU trollJun 28 17:41
schestowitzAnd I'm not pro-Linux. Hehe.Jun 28 17:41
twitterM$ people have always said such things.Jun 28 17:41
schestowitzLet's see if it's a Mono devJun 28 17:41
schestowitz"0 Responses to “Fuck you, Richard Stallman and other GNU/Trolls”"Jun 28 17:41
schestowitzYou don't say...Jun 28 17:41
schestowitz "I am a 21 year old undergrad at the Indian Institute of Technology, Kharagpur."Jun 28 17:42
twitterIt's funny that I got more hate in the 700 Slashdot comments yesterday than RMS does.Jun 28 17:42
schestowitz 28 17:42
twitterRMS hate is a favorite Slashdot crapflood.Jun 28 17:42
twitterThe reversal of directions shows clearly that both were astroturf rather than community.Jun 28 17:43
twitterI'll pass on reading the hateful little blog by yet another astroturfer who claims to be a student.Jun 28 17:44
amarsh04I still have to find an-online article for RMS about the role of (nearly extinct) marsupials in reducing the fuel load of the .au bushlandJun 28 17:44
schestowitzستولمان في مواجهة .net و monoستولمان في مواجهة .net و monoJun 28 17:44
schestowitz 28 17:44
schestowitzWe're mentioned here tooJun 28 17:44
schestowitztwitter: it's not an AstroTurfJun 28 17:45
schestowitzThis chap has a long-running blogJun 28 17:45
schestowitzWith archivesJun 28 17:45
schestowitzBut /. anti-RMS is similar to CompTIA anti-RMSJun 28 17:45
schestowitzIt's MS agendaJun 28 17:45
schestowitzDaemonise, Daemonise, Daemonise.Jun 28 17:45
schestowitzEnsure people stop following GPLJun 28 17:45
fewatake out the credibilityJun 28 17:45
schestowitzThe MS kryptoniteJun 28 17:45
twitterIck, I could not resist.  -> " This rant doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that I intern at Microsoft and that I am writing an extension to the MonoDevelop project. It is a rant to express my core belief that freedom is open to interpretation. I believe viral copyleft licenses like GPL are evil"Jun 28 17:46
twitterNo, what he thinks has nothing to do with his first employer, nothing at all.Jun 28 17:46
_Hicham_schestowitz : do u know arabic?Jun 28 17:47
fewawhat junkJun 28 17:47
schestowitztwitter: Slashdot defaced your submissionbJun 28 17:47
schestowitzThey added an attack on Bn to the linkJun 28 17:47
schestowitzThe one where Jo Shills says BN wants MS employees deadJun 28 17:47
schestowitzLies, lies...Jun 28 17:47
schestowitzAnonymous comments presented as a site policy, in a site that does not moderate commentsJun 28 17:48
twitterYes, I saw that.  They want to be "fair" I suppose.  Can't just report what RMS said, they have to add M$ lies to it.Jun 28 17:48
schestowitzMono proponents, get that pooper scooper again.Jun 28 17:48
MinceRwell, /. is bought and paid for.Jun 28 17:48
_Hicham_wow, I surprised that schestowitz understands arabicJun 28 17:49
schestowitzMinceR: well, same company, parent company tooJun 28 17:49
schestowitz_Hicham_: I don'tJun 28 17:49
schestowitzI forgot what I knewJun 28 17:49
schestowitzSome words, grammar.Jun 28 17:49
_Hicham_how did u understand what it is in the forum then?Jun 28 17:49
schestowitz_Hicham_: what does it say?Jun 28 17:49
schestowitzI see many linksJun 28 17:49
schestowitzI forgot the alphabet tooJun 28 17:50
_Hicham_that stallman is against monoJun 28 17:50
_Hicham_there is even some links to BNJun 28 17:50
_Hicham_يا سيد شيسطوفيتزJun 28 17:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] URGENT: Unlimited Software Patents In New Zealand. Act Now! 28 17:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @macrossactual Finally a voice of reason on #michaeljackson 28 17:52
schestowitz*sighs* more MJJun 28 17:52
schestowitzEven the people who write "stop about MJ" are actually doing more of the sameJun 28 17:52
schestowitzIt's like the "no such thing as bad publicity thing".. and it's viralJun 28 17:52
schestowitzOr the "don't touch this button" reverse-spychology... "don't mention X.."... "don't peep in this box"Jun 28 17:53
_Hicham_Open Invention Network can't protect Linux from Mono lawsuits?Jun 28 17:53
schestowitzHardlyJun 28 17:53
*amarsh04 has a ☕Jun 28 17:54
schestowitzThey list some other modulesJun 28 17:54
schestowitzOIN= Maginot LineJun 28 17:54
schestowitzas zoobab puts it anywayJun 28 17:54
schestowitzDid it save TomTom?Jun 28 17:54
_Hicham_noJun 28 17:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Bilski at the BPAI - What a Mess (Part 1) 28 17:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #mocknblock @WeMissMJBlog no, mentioning the sacred hashtag does not mean I want your spam kthx #michaeljacksonJun 28 17:57
_Hicham_so it won't save meJun 28 17:57
_Hicham_but why would someone use Mono for development?Jun 28 17:57
schestowitzMicrosoft will give you the kafahJun 28 17:57
schestowitz_Hicham_: do you have any good summary of what MS does in your country?Jun 28 17:58
schestowitzI have almost not references about it. I even have some from small countries, but the rest is not in ENJun 28 17:58
_Hicham_kafah?Jun 28 17:59
schestowitzMorocco y 857,446 1,676,623 96% 0.2% 14% 28 17:59
schestowitzMicrosoft dumped on MoroccoJun 28 17:59
schestowitzAntitrust materialJun 28 18:00
schestowitzHighly confidentialJun 28 18:00
_Hicham_never heard of thatJun 28 18:00
_Hicham_Microsoft is doing great with the govenmentJun 28 18:01
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schestowitzDo you know ACTA?Jun 28 18:01
_Hicham_everyone uses Windows in hereJun 28 18:01
_Hicham_noJun 28 18:01
schestowitz 28 18:01
schestowitz"Inside U.S. Trade reports (sub required) that the next round of ACTA negotiations, which had been scheduled for next month in Morocco, has been delayed at the request of U.S. officials."Jun 28 18:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #mocknblock @tagdef and @computersworld 1. your "service" is spammy. 2. if their home page is on, it's spam.Jun 28 18:02
_Hicham_ah, ACTAJun 28 18:02
_Hicham_I ve heard of it beforeJun 28 18:03
_Hicham_Morocco already signed itJun 28 18:03
schestowitzWell, puppet nations (all nations) doJun 28 18:05
schestowitzWe need the likes of Chavez hereJun 28 18:05
schestowitzThe people who say, "wait, what the heck am I signing?"Jun 28 18:05
schestowitzMost politicians are stupid lawyers who ask, "what would I get in reward for signing it?"Jun 28 18:06
twitterthe comments section looked so empty, I thought I'd add some sunshineJun 28 18:06
schestowitzThe US can also use economic sanctions to impose such stuffJun 28 18:06
twitter 28 18:06
twitteryes, I know, I fed the trollJun 28 18:06
schestowitzHe uses Mono??/Jun 28 18:06
schestowitzAny page to show this?Jun 28 18:06
*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))Jun 28 18:07
twitterthe page says so.  he works for M$ and works on mono extensions.Jun 28 18:07
twitter" I intern at Microsoft and that I am writing an extension to the MonoDevelop project"Jun 28 18:08
schestowitz 28 18:08
schestowitzAha!Jun 28 18:08
twitterI'm not sure why you were reading the blog pages of a mono developer, but there it is.Jun 28 18:09
*_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving.")Jun 28 18:12
schestowitzThis page's content won't show up even with JS:,page,63,topic_id,content_pagesJun 28 18:14
schestowitzWatch the banner image with the girl. Hehe.Jun 28 18:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] photos up from May 2009 Vagabonds still haven't tagged allJun 28 18:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] LiMux: Munich Linux (R)evolution has its Imitators, 28 18:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] "Ralf und Florian" (3rd Kraftwerk album) is very listenable but ridiculously mellow. German art school hippies.Jun 28 18:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Fedora 12 release name is: Constantine No Mono in it.Jun 28 18:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] MicroPirates, Censorship & Openbytes to be "ripped apart"? #microsoft #windows #vista #7Jun 28 18:17
schestowitzNew; 28 18:19
schestowitzIs AT&T playing gatekeeper to the Wireless Web? < > AT and T still king of corruption :-)Jun 28 18:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Stanford Bribes Helped Stall SEC Case, Agency’s Lawsuit Alleges 28 18:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Moby has a blog. "the riaa needs to be disbanded." 28 18:27
fewaCongress members should be able to afford their own researchJun 28 18:27
fewathinking of 28 18:28
twitterATT is evil.Jun 28 18:29
twitterit's another bad weekend for US banks.  5 more go down, bringing the total to 45 failures this year. 28 18:29
fewano matter how many pieces you break AT&T up into, it always come together againJun 28 18:29
fewamore corruptJun 28 18:30
fewacolluding with NSA and the bush administrationJun 28 18:30
schestowitzAnd for political censorship too, as an ISPJun 28 18:30
fewacorrupting with the government to avoid presecuriton of its crimesJun 28 18:30
fewawith the executiveJun 28 18:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Five Banks Are Seized, Raising U.S. Failures This Year to 45 28 18:32
twitter->" Regulators have seized the most U.S. banks this year since 1993. The U.S. economy has shed about 6 million jobs since the recession began in December 2007. Foreclosure filings surpassed 300,000 for the third straight month"Jun 28 18:32
twitterthat's roughly a million people losing their homes in three months.Jun 28 18:33
schestowitz 28 18:33
*tacone has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jun 28 18:33
schestowitztwitter: noJun 28 18:33
schestowitzfamiliesJun 28 18:34
schestowitzIt\s called repossessions here. Either that or foreclosure are Orwelian terms to beautify saying "you lost your house"Jun 28 18:34
schestowitzLike 'debt" gets called "cedit"Jun 28 18:35
schestowitzAnd DRM is associated with "rights"Jun 28 18:35
schestowitzAs is, "you have rights"Jun 28 18:35
twitterthe real statistic is not tracked or is not reported.Jun 28 18:35
schestowitzBut DRM is about taking basic rights away, selling them back at a costJun 28 18:35
schestowitztwitter: yesJun 28 18:35
schestowitzJobless claimsJun 28 18:35
schestowitztotal Bullshit, pardon my languageJun 28 18:35
schestowitzIt's more like 13%Jun 28 18:35
twitterI do not know how many of those foreclosures are families and how many are slum lords.Jun 28 18:35
schestowitzThey changed the definitionJun 28 18:36
schestowitzTo beautify itJun 28 18:36
schestowitztwitter: Either way it's not "people"Jun 28 18:36
schestowitzIt's housesJun 28 18:36
schestowitzSome may be vacantJun 28 18:36
twittertrueJun 28 18:36
schestowitzBut on average there is more than 1 person per houseJun 28 18:36
schestowitzhouse~=caravanJun 28 18:36
schestowitz~= in another syntaxJun 28 18:37
schestowitz!= Jun 28 18:37
twitterit can be fairly said that more than a million families lost their house in the last four months.Jun 28 18:37
twittersurely the majority of house foreclosures fall on familiesJun 28 18:38
twitterthere are probably more families moving from ownership to rentJun 28 18:41
schestowitzWell, that's for sureJun 28 18:42
schestowitzStatistically it must be the case.Jun 28 18:42
schestowitzBut had the economy been less imbalanced, your average landlord would maybe live in ChinaJun 28 18:43
*amarsh04 has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jun 28 18:44
schestowitzHypocrites: U.S. Presses China on CensorshipJun 28 18:47
schestowitzRadio Host Is Arrested in Threats on 3 Judges < >Jun 28 18:48
schestowitzAnd the DaemonTroll was here making threats or some sort tooJun 28 18:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Michael Jackson has a US patent on motion of feet and 'stuff': Shame on USPTOJun 28 18:52
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twitterhere's praise for mac mini hardware 28 18:52
fewawtfJun 28 18:53
twitterI'm not into paying $100 for imaginary property, but it's nice to know what's in it.Jun 28 18:53
twitterI visited a  big box computer store yesterday.  There were a lot of nice small laptops, all polluted with non free software.Jun 28 18:54
fewai think im going to order a hp mini 1000Jun 28 18:54
fewabut id rather have a ARM chipJun 28 18:55
twitterIt was a Best Buy.  There's hardly anyone else left with a computer display like that.Jun 28 18:55
twitterI did not see a lot of sales going on.Jun 28 18:55
schestowitzDon't feed IntelJun 28 18:57
schestowitzCriminals make those boardsJun 28 18:57
twitteryep, profit down 15% 28 18:57
schestowitzWhose?Jun 28 18:57
schestowitzWell, MS killed "netbooks"Jun 28 18:57
twitterBest Buy,Jun 28 18:57
schestowitzBloated, expensiveJun 28 18:57
fewai know, where are the geode netbooks?Jun 28 18:58
schestowitzMS didn't like themJun 28 18:58
fewaisnt Intel selling those at a loss to keep AMD out?Jun 28 18:58
schestowitzIntel saw profits dive 90% 6 months or so agoJun 28 18:58
twitterone of the few surviving retail computer vendors in the US.Jun 28 18:58
twitterthey have a new CEO 28 18:58
schestowitzfewa: I don't think they loseJun 28 18:58
schestowitzMaybe they lose by selling these at the expense of expensive boardsJun 28 18:59
schestowitzThe cannibalisation-type lossJun 28 18:59
schestowitzOr relative-to-self lossJun 28 18:59
twitterdoubling down on M$, it seems ->  Dunn, a 24-year Best Buy veteran who assumed the role of CEO from the retiring Anderson on Wednesday, said he believes the company’s greatest opportunities lie in home theater, computing and mobile phones, or what he called the “three screens of connectivity.”Jun 28 18:59
fewahats the only reason they did AtomJun 28 19:00
fewabecuase AMD did it first with geodeJun 28 19:00
schestowitzGuatemalan fears a tweet will make him a jailbird 28 19:01
twitterAha, ->  Dunn said, pointing to the company’s new minority stake in Brammo Inc., an Ashland, Ore.-based company that makes electric motorcycles. Best Buy soon will begin selling the motorcyles at five test stores on the West Coast.Jun 28 19:01
twitterNow that would be cool.Jun 28 19:01
schestowitzGroklaw broke its promise of not linking to APJun 28 19:01
twitterI wonder if they knew they linked to AP.Jun 28 19:02
amarsh04did you email PJ about it schestowitz?Jun 28 19:02
schestowitzElectronic snooping bill a 'data grab': privacy advocates (Canada) 28 19:02
schestowitzamarsh04: noJun 28 19:02
twittersounds like a good idea, they made the promise for their own protection.Jun 28 19:02
fewawho else sells decent netbooks?Jun 28 19:03
fewadell, asusJun 28 19:03
fewaany arm ones available right nowJun 28 19:03
amarsh04or if you want mips, www.lemote.comJun 28 19:03
twitter 28 19:04
schestowitz 28 19:04
twittera link that works 28 19:05
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] or i could just get the working hd from the dead n410c. now using kubuntu 7.10, not booted in 526 days. I am idiot. fucksake.Jun 28 19:07
twitterthe English page is not as cool as the Chinese page 28 19:11
twitterwow, free software and less than 12 watt power consumption 28 19:13
schestowitzSolang Photo Manager for GNOME/Ubuntu 28 19:14
schestowitzEngrish here: 28 19:15
twitterhmm 28 19:18
fewawhat type of chip is thatJun 28 19:19
fewaSTLS 2FJun 28 19:19
twitter355 euros? ouch! 28 19:19
twitterthere's gotta be a better price on the thing than thatJun 28 19:20
schestowitzFear of fsck < >Jun 28 19:20
twitterM$ people project their problems onto free software and are afraid of everything.Jun 28 19:25
twitterthis fear is a form of lock inJun 28 19:26
twitterFUD at its finestJun 28 19:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] kubuntu gutsy 7.10 is so old you can't get updates any more. can't download 9.10 iso until f's asleep and not watching telly tho.Jun 28 19:27
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*yuhong ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 28 19:29
yuhongOther regrets include not mentioning that Windows-only open source is actually quite dangerous, as I have discussed before.Jun 28 19:30
yuhongSpeaking of Apple and open source, what do you think of this from Slashdot.Jun 28 19:31
yuhong 28 19:31
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fewaapple usability is a myth, they spend millions of dollars to run ads showing how to use their productsJun 28 19:35
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fewaits not inherant, it costs alot of money to train usersJun 28 19:36
schestowitzOh, it's more rubbish from Asay (IMHO)Jun 28 19:37
*amarsh04 ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 28 19:37
schestowitzhe does damage to open source when he affiliates it with that marketing companyJun 28 19:37
schestowitzSome Apple fans are wannabes for the whole apple open source thingJun 28 19:37
schestowitzPretending like the Microsoft kids with the same fantasyJun 28 19:38
fewaat least apples sells an idea of what computers can be that is useful to individualsJun 28 19:38
fewarather than only selling more corporate control to IT departmentsJun 28 19:39
fewapeople want to be enthusiastic about computersJun 28 19:39
ThistleWebI wonder what it's like to use a PC with a single mouse buttonJun 28 19:40
ThistleWeba mouse for peeps with mitts onJun 28 19:40
fewalol, the mighty mouse even has two buttonsJun 28 19:40
fewayou just dont see itJun 28 19:40
ThistleWebI just wondered if it was designed for peeps who are unable to remember which is left and which is right, just bash the buttonJun 28 19:41
fewaApple sells enthuriasm about computers and technologyJun 28 19:41
fewaIts from he initial Lisa testJun 28 19:41
fewapeople had a much harder time with mouses that had more than one buttonJun 28 19:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] - True to his word, Mr Hussain is deleting comments. Here is one he considers "trolling" and has deleted.Jun 28 19:42
fewamost users have more experience with computers these days so that point is largely moot nowJun 28 19:42
ThistleWebto be fair, as a money making angle, selling a PC with a single button mouse is genius, as most sane peeps will pay extra for a proper oneJun 28 19:43
fewaThistleWeb, thats without basis, as the apple mouse that is sold all have 2 buttons underneathJun 28 19:43
fewayou just have to turn on the second on in the OS, or if its used on another OS i believe it has bothJun 28 19:43
ThistleWebkJun 28 19:44
ThistleWebis there a scroll wheel on apple mice?Jun 28 19:44
fewaits just differnt from the IBM/MS model of more and more featuresJun 28 19:44
fewaThistleWeb, yesJun 28 19:44
fewaup/down left/right tooJun 28 19:44
*ThistleWeb can't live without a scroll wheel on his mouseJun 28 19:44
ThistleWebleft / right would be differentJun 28 19:45
fewathe two-button mouse is just a way of say we have more featuresJun 28 19:45
fewathe checklist butingJun 28 19:45
amarsh04neither can I, ThistleWebJun 28 19:45
fewai love my little side buttons that i map to page up/page downJun 28 19:45
ThistleWebI've seen some web designers who think a long horizontal site if great for reading content, so you have to scroll all the was right to get to the end of the sentence, and all the way back to the start of the next one, hopefully remembering what line you were on, and what the end of the last snetence wasJun 28 19:46
ThistleWebmy response? close the tabJun 28 19:46
fewathats when you go view_--> page style-->no styleJun 28 19:47
MinceRmine is "fit to width" :>Jun 28 19:47
MinceRctrl+f11 or something like that in operaJun 28 19:47
ThistleWebI've sat down to PCs with no scroll wheel on the mouse, ARGHHHH!!!! it's horrendous, the amount of times your middle finger caresses what should be the wheel and nothing happensJun 28 19:47
ThistleWebthat's a nice feature in OperaJun 28 19:47
fewameh page up/down is better IMHOJun 28 19:48
ThistleWebfewa: this was a concious design decision, not an unstyled versionJun 28 19:48
MinceRi like to have bothJun 28 19:48
MinceRin fact, sometimes it's nice to have a trackpad handy with circular scrolling :)Jun 28 19:48
ThistleWebit's an idea the designers thought was coolJun 28 19:48
MinceRbut yes, not having a scroll wheel is annoyingJun 28 19:49
ThistleWebmice without scoll wheels should be illegal ;)Jun 28 19:49
schestowitz 28 19:49
tacone tessier ThistleWeb ToXedVirus trmanco twitter Jun 28 19:49
schestowitztacone: see aboveJun 28 19:49
schestowitzThistleWeb: maybe Apple's bundle should be illegal :-)Jun 28 19:50
ThistleWeblolJun 28 19:50
schestowitzBut then again, it's possible to avoid their h/w altogetherJun 28 19:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] From Uncyclopedia: Objectivist-Oriented Programming 28 19:52
ThistleWebit's the little things that annoy too, like in Linux you can scroll an inactive window by hovering your pointer over it, in Windows (XP at least) you have to click in it to make it active before you can scrollJun 28 19:55
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schestowitzHehe. I never tried tharJun 28 19:58
ThistleWebyeah, the lack of more than one desktop, always on top, the programs menu appearing on right click added to that active window scrolling make windows a PITA to use for meJun 28 20:00
twitterKonqueror uses vi motion commands for scroll.  Between that and track point, I need no mouse.Jun 28 20:01
twitter 28 20:03
twitter 28 20:03
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@ has joined #boycottnovellJun 28 20:04
twitter->  Experienced users prefer the hjkl keys because they are always right under their fingers.  Beginners often prefer the arrow keys, because they do not know what the hjkl keys do.Jun 28 20:04
twitter:)Jun 28 20:04
MinceRi prefer the arrow keys because they work in all modes :>Jun 28 20:07
twitterLOL -> schestowitz: Oh, it's more rubbish from Asay (IMHO)Jun 28 20:07
_Hicham_hkjl keys are betterJun 28 20:07
_Hicham_less stress on ur fingersJun 28 20:08
twitterthat's one huge troll article there.Jun 28 20:08
schestowitzHe does it repeatedlyJun 28 20:08
twitterIt's like I'm reading something from 1997.Jun 28 20:09
_Hicham_schestowitz : give DaemonFC another chanceJun 28 20:09
twitterWhat a moron.Jun 28 20:09
_Hicham_twitter : it is not bad to have morons in the channelJun 28 20:09
twitterGCC was not "dirty work" done by IBM.Jun 28 20:10
twitterE16, KDE, Gnome and many others are wonderful GUIs made the free software way.Jun 28 20:10
schestowitz_Hicham_: he's unbanned alreadyJun 28 20:17
MinceR_Hicham_: he got more chances than he deserved.Jun 28 20:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Mr Hussain thinks he's popular. What you do think? #microsoft #vista #7Jun 28 20:22
_Hicham_who is Mr Hussain?Jun 28 20:28
twitterI ignore hichamJun 28 20:29
twitteris this site gone already 28 20:30
twitter?Jun 28 20:30
fewacomcast is in the moneybags with the NSAJun 28 20:30
_Hicham_twitter?Jun 28 20:31
_Hicham_twitter : ?Jun 28 20:31
schestowitz"Bottom line : A drive with ext4 file system cannot be mounted within older Linux distributions as they don't have support for ext4." 28 20:32
schestowitztwitter: why??Jun 28 20:33
_Hicham_schestowitz : I really don't understand twitterJun 28 20:33
schestowitzThat site still worksJun 28 20:33
schestowitz_Hicham_: he mistakenly drops many peopleJun 28 20:34
schestowitzBloggers tooJun 28 20:34
schestowitzSample set it too small to judge byJun 28 20:34
twitterI'm not getting there.Jun 28 20:34
schestowitztwitter: _Hicham_ it not a troll at allJun 28 20:34
twitterno?Jun 28 20:34
schestowitzAnd he maintains monononoJun 28 20:34
twitterohJun 28 20:34
twitterchalk it to personal taste :)Jun 28 20:35
twitterah, that site finally loaded.Jun 28 20:36
_Hicham_I have no words to describe twitter's attitudeJun 28 20:36
*jose_X ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 28 20:36
twitterKonq said something about loading 5 of 6 images foreverJun 28 20:37
twitterno images are apparentJun 28 20:37
_Hicham_schestowitz : should I ignore twitter too?Jun 28 20:37
schestowitzNoJun 28 20:38
schestowitzHe's just too sensitive with filteringJun 28 20:38
schestowitzHe ignores writers based on one articleJun 28 20:38
schestowitzSamples too smallJun 28 20:38
*_Goblin ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 28 20:39
_Goblinhi allJun 28 20:39
twitterthis image was missingJun 28 20:39
twitter 28 20:39
schestowitzYo.Jun 28 20:39
_Hicham_schestowitz : I don't even know why he choosed to do soJun 28 20:40
schestowitzShow this to Mono proponents: 28 20:40
schestowitz_Hicham_: maybe cause you fed a trollJun 28 20:40
schestowitzIt's leading to clutter when a troll is fedJun 28 20:41
schestowitzBecause if you ignore the troll you then see replies to invisible stuffJun 28 20:41
schestowitzI have the same issue in USENET with troll feedersJun 28 20:41
_Hicham_agreeJun 28 20:41
schestowitzThey bring visibility to insults and foul languageJun 28 20:41
_Hicham_I fed him many timesJun 28 20:41
schestowitzI never see insults there unless it's quoted as repliesJun 28 20:41
_Hicham_but not latelyJun 28 20:41
_Hicham_I got used to himJun 28 20:42
_Hicham_sometimes he brings some useful newsJun 28 20:42
schestowitzHe probably harasses another place nowJun 28 20:42
twitteryes, that's probably it.Jun 28 20:42
schestowitzLast week he attacked ubuntu in his blogJun 28 20:42
schestowitzAfter being bannedJun 28 20:42
schestowitzAnd he also trolled other Linux channels that banned himJun 28 20:42
twitternothing personal, hicham, I just don't have time to read the troll traffic.Jun 28 20:43
schestowitzWe got rid of that troll now, having forgiven for monthsJun 28 20:44
schestowitzHe was on a sort of prologed probationJun 28 20:44
twitterthe trolls feed each other, I'm afraidJun 28 20:44
schestowitzGot like 10 second chances but only got more aggressiveJun 28 20:44
ThistleWeba prolonged probing huh? sounds either fun or painful depending on your persuasion :PJun 28 20:44
schestowitzThe Lixxsux trolls came back here yesterdayJun 28 20:44
_Hicham_twitter : thanks for insulting meJun 28 20:44
schestowitzTalked to each other a lotJun 28 20:44
schestowitzThistleWeb: probation ratherJun 28 20:45
schestowitzAnd wait..Jun 28 20:45
schestowitzHe also has a real probation officerJun 28 20:45
twitterLike I said, _Hicham_, sorryJun 28 20:45
schestowitzI don't know what he didJun 28 20:45
schestowitzBut the authorities watch himJun 28 20:45
schestowitzHyperactive and troublemaking dudeJun 28 20:45
schestowitzSomething about drinking, IIRCJun 28 20:45
ThistleWebmaybe he's got an asbo for going into shops and shouting codec info at the staffJun 28 20:46
*_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving.")Jun 28 20:46
schestowitzLMAOJun 28 20:46
schestowitz"But, BUT... ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!1 Ogg!! MP3!!!!!1 AAAAAAAARGH!!!"Jun 28 20:46
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@ has joined #boycottnovellJun 28 20:47
schestowitzLots of good Linux news comingJun 28 20:47
schestowitzNew Debian 5.0 as wellJun 28 20:47
ThistleWebpoor staff at Tesco having some loonie in their face telling them about mp3 / acc / flac etc when all they wanna do is ring the stuff up, put the money in the till and serve the next peep in lineJun 28 20:47
_Hicham_KMS getting more and more spreadJun 28 20:47
_Hicham_Mandriva is gonna adopt plymouth tooJun 28 20:47
_Hicham_there is already plymouth for ubuntuJun 28 20:48
_Hicham_السيد شيسطوفيتزJun 28 20:49
schestowitzNiceJun 28 20:50
schestowitz_Hicham_ is our ambassadorJun 28 20:50
ThistleWebarabic writing is gorgeous, but I don't understand any of itJun 28 20:51
_Hicham_I just wrote : Mr SchestowitzJun 28 20:51
ThistleWebof course, you could tell me anything, I can't read it to verify it lolJun 28 20:51
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ThistleWebI refuse to believe it's the entire GPLJun 28 20:52
ThistleWebin 2 wordsJun 28 20:52
_Hicham_ThistleWeb : u can translate itJun 28 20:52
ThistleWeb_Hicham_: nopeJun 28 20:53
_Hicham_ThistleWeb : why?Jun 28 20:53
ThistleWebI probably could actually, with something like foxy.......whats the addonJun 28 20:53
ThistleWebI used to install a translate addon but never found the need for itJun 28 20:54
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_Hicham_ThistleWeb : 28 20:54
_Hicham_I just translated what I wroteJun 28 20:55
_Hicham_worked almost perfectlyJun 28 20:55
ThistleWebahh, thats coolJun 28 20:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Wine 1.1.24 - Built, installed, enjoyed! 28 20:57
ThistleWebthat's why I got it wrong, reversed it returns "Mr. Cistoviz"Jun 28 20:58
ThistleWebsimilar when spokenJun 28 20:58
fewaschestowitz, you should keep in mind that the USPTO has been a big fighter in the extention of patents, taking them to court, such as In Re BilskiJun 28 20:58
schestowitztessier: Leaving CentOS team, not CentOS community < >Jun 28 20:59
schestowitz_Hicham_: I could read ArabicJun 28 20:59
schestowitzI forgot how to nowJun 28 20:59
schestowitzAnyway, I'll do some faily links nowJun 28 20:59
schestowitzbrbJun 28 20:59
schestowitz "About two months back, when Boycott Novell started causing trouble, I started learning C# using Mono and MonoDevelop as my tools."Jun 28 21:05
schestowitzThat bastardJun 28 21:05
schestowitzSpreading lies about us tooJun 28 21:05
schestowitzSaying we DDOSed ourselvesJun 28 21:05
twitteryes, the trolls do that.  blame victims for crimes trolls commit.Jun 28 21:06
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trmancorms isn't wrongJun 28 21:13
schestowitzIt's a SUSE troll siteJun 28 21:15
schestowitzPersonal attacks, racial attacks, etcJun 28 21:15
schestowitzThe linxxxx typeJun 28 21:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux is Beaing Microsoft on the Desktop Too 28 21:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Greatest Strength of GNU/Linux is the Libre Value 28 21:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Munich on GNU/Linux Desktop Migration: "We'd do it again" 28 21:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♺ @and3k: Known unpatched vulnerabilities: IE6: 396, IE7: 15, IE8: 3, Firefox: 0. It kinda speaks for itself 28 21:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Calls for People to Abandon Windows for More Modern GNU/Linux 28 21:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Firefox 3.5 2 Days Away 28 21:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Firefox and Chrome Both Get Very Fast and Run on GNU/Linux 28 21:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Review of Desktop Environment 4 and KOffice 2.0 28 21:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] KDE Forums Undergo Major Redesign 28 21:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNOME Takes a Lesson from KDE4 and Make Leap Forward 28 21:37
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Second Update of Debian GNU/Linux (Lenny) is Out 28 21:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ubuntu and Debian Work Together to Combine Powers 28 21:42
jose_Xschestowitz, reading your link above on rms being wrong about csharp..Jun 28 21:46
schestowitzNopeJun 28 21:46
schestowitzIt's a trollJun 28 21:46
jose_Xi noticed that this is the latest in a string of..Jun 28 21:46
jose_Xcomments that attack dotnet on quality of apiJun 28 21:46
jose_Xthat is reverse psychologyJun 28 21:46
jose_Xpeople start to look.. further, they realize "it's not that bad"Jun 28 21:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] CentOS at LinuxTag , Other Viable Distributions of GNU/Linux 28 21:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] PCinuxOS Does a Fantastic Job, As Always 28 21:47
jose_Xmeanwhile the troll gains some level of legitimacy as being anti-dotnet..Jun 28 21:47
jose_Xbut while downplaying the patent threats and MS's evilness and subterfuge.Jun 28 21:47
jose_Xthis is just a hunch i have now, but it had been building.Jun 28 21:48
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jose_XMicrosoft will keep trying every single strategy they can to manipulate people until they find something where people finally accept them or their tech and ways (and threats)Jun 28 21:48
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schestowitzIndeedJun 28 21:49
jose_Xif i'm wrong i'm wrong of course.Jun 28 21:49
schestowitzIt's important to watch and inform IMHOJun 28 21:49
schestowitzThe whole EEE of FOSS is spookyJun 28 21:49
schestowitzSome people keep sleepingJun 28 21:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Slackware Eternally Keeps a Place in People's Hearts and Computers 28 21:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Manipal Puts Fedora GNU/Linux on Deck 28 21:52
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Fedora's Project Leader Upbeat on LinuxTag and FUDCon 28 21:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Fedora claims about half a million downloads per month. 28 21:57
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jose_Xbtw, schestowitz, i got the urge to bring that "watch out" above.. a comment by itself can mean anything. everyone has opinionsJun 28 22:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The End of Reboots in Ubuntu (or GNU/Linux in General) Possibly Near 28 22:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Response to Manan: #microsoft #windows #7Jun 28 22:02
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schestowitzjose_X: which comment?Jun 28 22:02
jose_Xso i am not pointing fingers or singling anything out.Jun 28 22:02
schestowitzjose_X: they accused BN of DDOSing ITSELFJun 28 22:02
jose_Xnevermind... nothing important..Jun 28 22:02
schestowitzIt's a linuxxxxx-type siteJun 28 22:03
jose_Xyeah, that's a hunch that person has apparentlyJun 28 22:03
_GoblinJose X...where do I remember that handle from?Jun 28 22:03
schestowitzRevulsion followsJun 28 22:03
jose_Xi'm not attacking the comment, but i'm not defending it.Jun 28 22:03
schestowitz_Goblin: linuxtodayJun 28 22:03
jose_X_Goblin.. don't know but i have been using it for a while.. yes, LT is where I post mostly.Jun 28 22:03
_Goblinmmm no I dont think it was there....possibly the comments section of BN....Jun 28 22:04
schestowitzThe Novell folks already map folks by real namesJun 28 22:04
jose_XBn as wellJun 28 22:04
schestowitzProfiling their threats to MonoJun 28 22:04
schestowitzjose_X: how's your Linux project coming along?Jun 28 22:04
jose_X"study the enemy"Jun 28 22:04
jose_X?Jun 28 22:05
_GoblinYou working on a Linux project?Jun 28 22:05
_Goblinwould you like to help me?Jun 28 22:05
_Goblinso am I.Jun 28 22:05
schestowitzA Microsoft intern called me a "dick" todayJun 28 22:05
thenixedreportlolJun 28 22:05
schestowitzHe attacked Stallman and others (especially me) calling us "trolls"Jun 28 22:05
thenixedreportWhat was his e-mail address?Jun 28 22:05
ThistleWebschestowitz: bet you feel touchedJun 28 22:05
jose_Xa tom and harryJun 28 22:05
_GoblinI've been called a plethora of homophobic names by the MS faithful today as well.Jun 28 22:06
schestowitzIf MS folks don't like us it means we do well for LinuxJun 28 22:06
thenixedreport:)Jun 28 22:06
_Goblinoh yes Ive had the troll comment (and jobless too)Jun 28 22:06
_GoblinI bet Ive been called more names than you Roy....;)Jun 28 22:06
thenixedreportHad someone from MS also try to defend Windows Vista.Jun 28 22:06
thenixedreportlolJun 28 22:06
_GoblinBrave person.Jun 28 22:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Preparations and Wallpapers for Ubuntu GNU/Linux 9.10 28 22:07
thenixedreportIP traced back to Microsoft headquarters.Jun 28 22:07
thenixedreportlolJun 28 22:07
_GoblinSo Jose_X: what Linux project are you working on?Jun 28 22:07
jose_X?Jun 28 22:07
schestowitzthenixedreport: no, disclosureJun 28 22:08
_Goblin"?" whats that? a terminal command?Jun 28 22:08
thenixedreport:(Jun 28 22:08
thenixedreportOh well.Jun 28 22:08
thenixedreport:)Jun 28 22:08
jose_XIt means I don't know what you Roy meantJun 28 22:08
jose_Xwhat schestowitz meantJun 28 22:08
_Goblinah, so youre not...Jun 28 22:08
thenixedreportAnd why in the world is Ubuntu dropping the server kernel?Jun 28 22:08
_GoblinJose_X: would you like to then?Jun 28 22:08
thenixedreportWhat about 32-bit systems with 4 GB of RAM?Jun 28 22:09
jose_XI've mentioned some projects to schestowitz.. distro related... if that is what you [roy] meant, then no I have not spent time with that for a whileJun 28 22:09
_Goblinah I see.Jun 28 22:09
_Goblin./? -needhelp -withprojectJun 28 22:10
jose_Xspeak _GoblinJun 28 22:10
jose_Xit's free to speakJun 28 22:10
_GoblinYou want to help?Jun 28 22:11
jose_Xanyone might be interested in helping outJun 28 22:11
jose_Xhelp what?Jun 28 22:11
schestowitzjose_X builds UltimateLinuxJun 28 22:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ubuntu Listens to Community , New Magazine Released [via @jonobacon ]Jun 28 22:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Kubuntu Success Stories on Notebooks 28 22:12
_Goblinah.Jun 28 22:12
jose_X??Jun 28 22:12
jose_XSomething like UltimateLinux might be trademarked or otherwise used already i'd thinkJun 28 22:12
_GoblinI'm compiling a distro with native support for multiple processors (ie Motorola 68k) using UAE code I intend (or am trying) to create a seamless integration between WB1.3 and Linux (amongst other platforms)Jun 28 22:13
schestowitzjose_X: there's Ultimate EditionJun 28 22:13
schestowitzformerly UUEJun 28 22:13
schestowitzThey dropped the "Ubuntu" partJun 28 22:13
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_Goblinof course this long term hobby/project is mono free and will be BN approved...Jun 28 22:14
jose_XLet me look up uae and bw1.3Jun 28 22:14
_GoblinI was inspired by the AROS project.Jun 28 22:14
jose_Xamiga?Jun 28 22:14
_Goblinyeah!Jun 28 22:14
_Goblinbrb smoke break.Jun 28 22:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Phones Proving to be a Challenge to iPhone (Marketing) 28 22:17
schestowitz_Goblin: what\? You're booting into Windows (tobacco)? So soon?Jun 28 22:19
thenixedreportEquating Windows with smoking...Jun 28 22:20
thenixedreportThat's hilarious.Jun 28 22:20
_Goblinlol..Jun 28 22:21 one vice...Jun 28 22:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Where the OLPC Project Stands: Still GNU/Linux, Still Sugar 28 22:22
trmanco 28 22:23
_Goblinfortunately I dont have to line Ballmers pockets to do it.Jun 28 22:25
schestowitzthenixedreport: not my ideaJun 28 22:25
schestowitzIt's Gates' ideaJun 28 22:25
schestowitz“They’ll get sort of addicted, and then we’ll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade.” Bill GatesJun 28 22:26
schestowitzSpoken like a true tobacco tycoon.Jun 28 22:26
schestowitz_Goblin wrote about this too, so he knowsJun 28 22:26
_Goblinsure do. :)Jun 28 22:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Patent Trolls Problem Further Exacerbated 28 22:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Just finished reading The Da Vinci Code by Dan Brown. Damn, that was one amazing read!Jun 28 22:37
_GoblinRoy, maybe we should have a competition one day to see who can get the most insults from the MS faithful...I've counted over 30 different insults today alone...I must be doing something right.Jun 28 22:37
schestowitzNo thanksJun 28 22:37
_Goblin;)Jun 28 22:37
schestowitzProvocation leads to erosion of credibilityJun 28 22:37
schestowitzRealty is sometimes perceived as provocation tooJun 28 22:38
_Goblinyes but since I dont provoke, merely challenge...the insult comes when they cant argue, thats what makes it a compliment.Jun 28 22:38
schestowitzLike, if you say something that you're not allowed to say because some people might be insuledJun 28 22:38
schestowitz*tedJun 28 22:38
schestowitz_Goblin: I don't track responses muchJun 28 22:38
schestowitzEven less after the DDOS attack cause I don't have a referer [sic] trackerJun 28 22:39
_Goblinthe more insults you recieve the better the argument you have put forward...thats why I never use vulgarity or personal remarks...I let the evidence speak for itself.Jun 28 22:39
_GoblinI love the "jobless" insult....since I only get that compliment when Ive made a very comprehensive reply.Jun 28 22:39
_Goblincontrary to what many believe I think the insults further the FOSS cause.  If users who are unsure about alternatives see one side of the argument merely insulting then IMO it shows which is the stronger case.Jun 28 22:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Signs of USPTO's Sheer Lunacy 28 22:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Patents More Likely to be Abolished? 28 22:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Report from OpenSUSE Day in Chile 28 22:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Shills (with Laptop Bribes) Might be Nymshifting 28 22:47
schestowitzI'm writing about Costa in SUENETJun 28 22:50
schestowitz*USENETJun 28 22:50
_GoblinlolJun 28 22:50
_Goblinpoor old Andre Da Toxic....Jun 28 22:51
_GoblinI feel sorry for him, maybe we could all club together and buy him a computer so that he doesnt have to sell his dignity?Jun 28 22:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More on "the Great Bing Scam" 28 22:52
schestowitzHe strategisesJun 28 23:05
schestowitzAlready begging Apple for foodJun 28 23:05
schestowitzHe know MS is fallingJun 28 23:05
schestowitzSo not many bribes coming to him any time soon.Jun 28 23:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vista and Vista 7 so Bad That XP Lives for a Decade 28 23:07
twitterThanks for the Munich update.  Submitted 28 23:07
twitteranyone know how Vienna is doing with Vista?Jun 28 23:08
twitterha ha haJun 28 23:08
twitterwow, done for the sake of a "sly mouse" 28 23:11
twitterah, someone already did this story, 28 23:12
twitterWow, just look at that troll comment pyramid.  The article comments have been completely crap flooded.Jun 28 23:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Uses Outlook to Break Interoperability, Snubs Protesters 28 23:17
schestowitzMicrosoft attacks MunichJun 28 23:18
schestowitzIt's a role modelJun 28 23:18
schestowitzThey need to slime, slime, slime itJun 28 23:18
schestowitzThen Gartner and Silver come along and wave the smearsJun 28 23:19
schestowitzClassic gang culture at MSJun 28 23:19
twitterbut they are smelling like a rose in the wake of the Vista failureJun 28 23:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] I've just used Bing for the first time ever. It sucks. It's "Not Google", just like it says on the tun.Jun 28 23:27
twitter*tin?Jun 28 23:29
trmanco 28 23:29
schestowitzHehe.Jun 28 23:30
schestowitzIsn't Captian Fester on dooooty?Jun 28 23:30
twitterBasically the Munich smear goes along the lines I predicted in my submission.  Even the article misses a lot of important details.Jun 28 23:30
twitterGNU/Linux was only more expensive for Munich because Steve Ballmer offered the city a 90% discount on all of the software.Jun 28 23:31
twitterHad the city been dumb enough to move from NT4 to XP, they would now be looking at another, far more expensive migration to Vista or Vista 7.Jun 28 23:31
twitterThe trolls point out the difference in cost as if the same were true for everyone, not just a one time deal offered by M$'s number 2.Jun 28 23:32
twitterThey point out minor set backs in moving data from M$'s roach motel as "fiasco"Jun 28 23:33
twitterHmph.Jun 28 23:33
twitterVienna moved to Vista last year.  I'd love to hear how they are doing.Jun 28 23:34
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ThistleWebtwitter: wait till they boot up and you can ask themJun 28 23:35
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twitterInformative comment here 28 23:40
twitter->  Vienna never created it's own distribution. They intended to do so, but in the end they rolled out basically unmodified Debian to 1000 of their 32000 workstations. 750 of those workstations are now reversed to Debian/XP (NOT Vista) Dual boot.Jun 28 23:41
oiaohmHow is that a failure.Jun 28 23:42
oiaohmAll conversions have issues.Jun 28 23:42
twitterhmmm, they lose it later.....Jun 28 23:43
oiaohmNotice they droped back to duel boot.Jun 28 23:43
oiaohmIf there was no advantage to Linux they would have droped back to pure XP.Jun 28 23:44
oiaohmI know this from conversions from XP to Vista.Jun 28 23:44
ThistleWebI wonder if anyone told them of virtualised PCs so they could have an XP image for the odd app they neededJun 28 23:44
ThistleWebor if they did, tried it and it didn't workJun 28 23:45
ThistleWebfor their needsJun 28 23:45
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oiaohmLot of Old cpus don't support the instructions to virtualise at good speed.Jun 28 23:45
ThistleWebI bet they had lots of fun installing Windows AFTER a non-Windows OS on the same PC dual bootingJun 28 23:46
oiaohmDroping to dual boot could be a interm measure until upgrading machines.Jun 28 23:46
ThistleWebwith Microsoft only recognising other Windows in it's MBRJun 28 23:46
ThistleWebblitzing it if it's non-WindowsJun 28 23:46
oiaohmThat is not hard to fix.Jun 28 23:46
ThistleWebnah, Linux is still there, the MBR just needs manual changes to add it back to the list that Windows should never have removedJun 28 23:47
ThistleWebthat's why I put XP on first, then's just easierJun 28 23:48
ThistleWebthat way I have a grub menu too ;)Jun 28 23:48
oiaohmMiner altered windows adds grub to windows bootloader.Jun 28 23:48
oiaohmIt all depends if you are using normal install disks or not how much trouble it is.Jun 28 23:49
ThistleWebdunno if this is true, but apparently if you're dual booting with different versions of Windows, you need to put the oldest one on firstJun 28 23:49
oiaohmIts true.Jun 28 23:49
oiaohmIf you don't you risk lots of nasty permission errors and other problems.Jun 28 23:50
oiaohmNewer versions of windows need to detect older ones on install so they don't use features that will stuff the older ones up.Jun 28 23:50
ThistleWebI learned that on my MCP years ago but that was before I realised the MCP was basicly a M$ indoctrination cert where the non-Microsoft wolrd barely gets a mention and all sorts of dodgy advice is handed down as "best practice"Jun 28 23:51
_GoblinMicrosoft to charge Europeans double for Windows 7: 28 23:51
tacone wowJun 28 23:52
taconenice push for linux :)Jun 28 23:52
ThistleWebtacone: except many will just cough upJun 28 23:53
taconelet them coughJun 28 23:53
oiaohmThistleWeb: the install order thing does not apply if you are only using fat filesystems.   Its NTFS linked.Jun 28 23:53
ThistleWebevery time the govt increase the price of ciggies via tax, the assumption is that at some point peeps will say "enough", but most just continue to smoke after the price increaseJun 28 23:54
ThistleWeboiaohm: ahh, they never explained that, just that it was what to doJun 28 23:54
twitterHere's a word problem, a 90% discount made XP cost 2 million euros less than GNU/linux for Munich .... how much will Vista 7 cost people foolish enough to buy it.Jun 28 23:54
twitterha haJun 28 23:55
ThistleWebsome will stop, but most will continue to find the money, even if they need to cut back elsewhereJun 28 23:55
taconeeveryone's happyJun 28 23:55
twitterM$ death watch is updated. 28 23:55
taconems recovers the anti-trust billJun 28 23:55
taconelinux gets a pushJun 28 23:55
taconeeu anti-trust has new excuses for a new billJun 28 23:55
_GoblinIm not sure....couple that price increase with the need (in some cases) to upgrade hardware and a platform which still cant say what advantages it has over XP (IMO) doesn't look so appealing.Jun 28 23:56
twitterIt looks great to me.  No one will buy it.Jun 28 23:56
ThistleWebthing with windows / office licenece fees, is that many small businesses can be in the situation of "do we renew Microsoft licences and get no real benefits to our business and lay off some peeps, or do we switch to a free FOSS solution and keep use the money we would have paid to Microsoft to keep those people employed"Jun 28 23:56
oiaohm90 percent discount will not work with germans they take a long term look at the world.Jun 28 23:57
_GoblinMy question of: What does 7 offer that cannot be achieved either natively or via 3rd party software in XP. Still hasnt been answered, even by identified MS employees who have posted on my blog...Jun 28 23:57
oiaohmSecuirty framework support _GoblinJun 28 23:57
oiaohmBasically not much.Jun 28 23:57
_GoblinI expect in Europe, the Bit-torrent trackers will be bogged down due to the news of the Vista 7 price..Jun 28 23:58
_Goblinyep oiaohm.  Which means "Sorry we cant do anything about security in any other version of Windows, but nevermind, dig deep and spend some more money"Jun 28 23:58
twitterWhy?  Do you expect anyone really wants Vista 7?Jun 28 23:59
_GoblinIf they can get it for free, then probably....even Vista was torrented to death!Jun 28 23:59
ThistleWebyou do have to wonder at the self-awarded label of "best in class" when it needs several 3rd party antii-malware software to just keep it from being hosed when it connects to the internetJun 28 23:59
_Goblina point maybe the shareholders of MS stock might want to consider.Jun 28 23:59

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