IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: July 30th, 2009

taconeit's about control, not users getting sued. we repeated that many times, but mono apologist just skip on that.Jul 30 00:00
schestowitzYesJul 30 00:00
schestowitzCause it's hard to beat up straw menJul 30 00:00
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schestowitz*it's not hardJul 30 00:00
taconeapi control is not a big problem as legal control.Jul 30 00:00
taconeparolang: PAI = API (typo)=Jul 30 00:00
parolangWell, remember that mono apologists are often people who have invested (in terms of man-hours learning the system, running apps for the system, not $$$) a great deal in mono technology.  So obviously there's a natural bias.  They don't want to give up what they have already been working with.Jul 30 00:01
taconethe fact that ms felt the need to do the community promise, as worthless as it may be, is a sign they need a good rap and mono concerns are real.Jul 30 00:01
taconeparolang: nobody hates mono people here.Jul 30 00:02
parolangThe community promise isn't worthless, but it does give up control like you're saying.Jul 30 00:02
taconei should say BN is suspicious (especially on IRC) because many attacks came.Jul 30 00:02
parolangtacone: Good.  But I meant that in the sense of an explanation on why mono apologists aren't reading the arguments objectively.Jul 30 00:02
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taconeparolang: Jo Shields is beginning talking with Jason ( in a non hatred manner. that's good.Jul 30 00:03
schestowitztacone: IRC is IRCJul 30 00:03
schestowitzNot formalJul 30 00:03
schestowitzSomeone mailed me this 3 hours ago:Jul 30 00:03
schestowitz"Who is this guy Jo Shields? I am more concerned about his role in gettting Debian dependent on mono than i am concerned about Ubuntu. According to his website he is a sysadmin at Cambridge University... I would like to think he is honest and is just a gullible developer fan of C# and .Net..."Jul 30 00:03
schestowitz"at the beginning, when responding to the well reasoned posts by jason of mono-nono, Jo even sounded reasonable, but the more he writes, the more aggresive he becomes and the harder seems to me to consider he is honest."Jul 30 00:03
taconeobviously mono people are biased. as everyone is.Jul 30 00:03
parolangBut, the community promise pretty much traps the fs community into their specification.  Going outside of the specification becomes a risk.  This is ripe for the old embrace and extend strategy.Jul 30 00:03
schestowitz"He seems to know far too much about Microsoft internal strategy and interests, and the more he writes, the more the things he says resembles the typical "microspeak" and talking points. Aside from his disgusting and unwarranted attacks on RMS along with **"Jul 30 00:04
taconeparolang: even if ms guys were good guys, they have shareholders to report toJul 30 00:04
taconeit's not gonna be easy in any way.Jul 30 00:04
parolangschestowitz: Please make sure no one is trying to get anyone fired for their jobs.Jul 30 00:05
parolangschestowitz: It scares me that he even mentions the guys place of employment.Jul 30 00:05
taconeattacks on rms are an awfulJul 30 00:05
parolangBut Jo Shields says he's the release manager for mono on Debain (IIRC)Jul 30 00:06
taconeparolang: so ?Jul 30 00:06
taconeparolang: schestowitz has no control on his readers actionsJul 30 00:06
parolangWhat are you so-ing too?Jul 30 00:07
parolangtacone: He can endorse or encourage people's actions.Jul 30 00:07
schestowitzparolang: there are lots of people reading the site and occasionally someone even posts personal details, which I don't likeJul 30 00:07
taconejo shields is the release manager. so ?Jul 30 00:07
schestowitzOr people who get pissed off and run off doing stupid thingsJul 30 00:07
schestowitzBN is not editors+readers (whoever they are)... not more than the Guardian can be blamed if some reader read something in there and murdered his familyJul 30 00:07
parolangschestowitz: Yeah.  It would just be good to discourage the behavior wherever it seems to exist.  That's all.Jul 30 00:08
tacone+1 on discouraging foolish acts.Jul 30 00:08
parolangtacone: Oh.  The post schestowitz quoted above asked what jo shields role is in debianJul 30 00:08
taconeparolang: sorry, missed that.Jul 30 00:09
schestowitzAnother thing from a reader: "<black helicopter mode="ON">I might be totally wonkers and probably it means nothing, but something stroke me the other day and it is he wrote the word "germane" which is a word I had only read once elsewhere and on that ocassion I had to look up its meaning in a dictionary (since I am not a native english speaker), you know who was using that word?: Steve Ballmer in an interview...<black helicopter moJul 30 00:09
schestowitzde="OFF">"Jul 30 00:09
parolangschestowitz: See, that's paranoid. :)Jul 30 00:09
schestowitzparolang: ITwire did this in an articleJul 30 00:09
schestowitzparolang: yes, I know.Jul 30 00:10
schestowitzDamn. Things keep breaking round the house this week.... sink, then blown fuse... now my secondary monitor is turning purpose (it's a 21'' CRT)Jul 30 00:11
schestowitzcya in the moarning..Jul 30 00:11
parolangNiteJul 30 00:11
schestowitz*morning. OopsJul 30 00:11
taconebyeJul 30 00:11
parolangtacone: Kudos for linking to the Google Wave patent license.  Very informative. +1Jul 30 00:13
tacone:)Jul 30 00:13
fewashows that all the BS from MSFT blaming those confused is misplacesJul 30 00:13
fewathat MSFT purposefully makes their "promise" full of holesJul 30 00:14
parolangfewa: Well, the argument could be made that Microsoft is using the community promise to ensure that developers don't make implementations that violate the standard.Jul 30 00:15
parolangfewa: But that argument would probably only be political cover.Jul 30 00:15
fewaparolang, thats not community, that's dictaitorshipJul 30 00:15
parolangI think the ability to fork from the specification is an important freedom that the community needs to have.Jul 30 00:15
taconemaking a c# implementation is not trivialJul 30 00:15
tacone+1 on forking.Jul 30 00:16
taconethey need to calm down. is not that apache forks went anywhere.Jul 30 00:16
parolangI can imagine MS changing the specification to make it difficult to implement on free or non Windows systems.Jul 30 00:16
fewaparolang, +1 obviousJul 30 00:16
taconenaJul 30 00:17
fewaOOXML is full of that type of stuff.Jul 30 00:17
taconechanging the specification is not trivialJul 30 00:17
fewaall sort of undefined definitionsJul 30 00:17
taconethat would break retro compatibilityJul 30 00:17
parolangtacone: hmmJul 30 00:17
fewaparolang, new version are not covered by the licenceJul 30 00:17
parolangtacone: Well, I mean a new version of the spec that's also covered by the community promise.  Especially if there is something wrong/inconveniant about the previous specification.Jul 30 00:18
fewaIOW, MSFT astroturf, and lots of itJul 30 00:18
fewanothing newJul 30 00:18
taconemmh.Jul 30 00:18
taconei think they want just stop people to innovate before themJul 30 00:19
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parolangWhat's Bruce Perens take on the mono issue?Jul 30 00:20
parolangtacone: sureJul 30 00:20
taconehis old take was not really goodJul 30 00:20
taconewhen he commented tomtom case he told people shouldn't trust mono alsoJul 30 00:21
taconeiircJul 30 00:21
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twitter.Jul 30 05:30
cubezzzugh, there's going to be microsoft storesJul 30 05:46
cubezzzselling zunes and xboxes and stuffJul 30 05:46
fewaMicrosoft soresJul 30 05:47
fewathey will bleed moneyJul 30 05:47
twitterpeople will have to buy them for that to happen.  cubezzz: selling zunes and xboxes and stuffJul 30 05:49
twitterIt would be better to say they will put them on display.Jul 30 05:49
fewatwitter, yeah, like Nike storedJul 30 05:49
fewa*soresJul 30 05:50
twitterWe're loosing money, Captain!  What do we do?Jul 30 05:50
twitterSpend more money.Jul 30 05:50
twitterha haJul 30 05:50
cubezzznot sure how well specialty stores are doing these days, probably not too goodJul 30 05:50
cubezzzalthough shoes seem cheaper now than in the 80's which is weirdJul 30 05:51
fewacubezzz, Nike stores are purposefully designed to lose money. The idea is to charge an exorbinate price, and by doing so, make people thing the shoes are actually worth something.Jul 30 05:52
fewaits capitalism in its most ridiculous, and least efficient, state.Jul 30 05:54
cubezzzyeah, sort of a status symbolJul 30 05:55
fewaShoes cost ~$2 each to makeJul 30 05:55
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fewaits a manufactures status symbolJul 30 05:56
fewa*manufacturedJul 30 05:56
fewastatus of being gullibleJul 30 05:57
cubezzzno rolex or Armani suits for the Linux crowd :)Jul 30 05:58
fewawhy needs them, we have penguins!Jul 30 05:58
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schestowitz'US senator Herb Kohl, who chairs the Senate panel with responsibility for consumer rights and anti-trust issues, said the agreement will be "closely reviewed" by his sub committee.'Jul 30 07:33
schestowitzVIsta 7 cracked. 30 07:37
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schestowitzApple tries to justify being "proprietary zealots" and uses FUD. LinuxToday: "Don't forget terrorists, and think of the children-- ed."Jul 30 07:52
schestowitz-> 30 07:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Patents Roundup: Another Attack on Free Software, Blackboard Loses Again, Yellow Beans Patented 30 07:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #ietf codec working group BoF, Stockholm in 11 hours #theora #wikipedia #wikimedia please forwardJul 30 07:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] IETF codec working group BoF also on IRC! in 11 hours: #theora #wikipedia #wikimedia #ietf pls fwdJul 30 07:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #photoshop #cs2 how to convert channels to layers? for the untrainedJul 30 07:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] US Airways has agreed to pay me back the $908.20. Thank you!Jul 30 07:56
Diablo-D3you know what pisses me off?Jul 30 07:57
Diablo-D3the "Black Nation"Jul 30 07:58
Diablo-D3the official line from them is the whole Gates thing is racially motivatedJul 30 07:58
Diablo-D3no its notJul 30 07:58
Diablo-D3the cop arrested the guy because the cops a dickwadJul 30 07:58
Diablo-D3no more, no lessJul 30 07:58
Diablo-D3Gates could have been a white guy, a black guy, an asian, who caresJul 30 07:59
Diablo-D3the cop would have acted the sameJul 30 07:59
fewa 30 08:00
fewalol where the dispatcher said "Black or hispanic?" they changed itJul 30 08:03
schestowitz"It's official: Microsoft-Yahoo ink 10-year search pact; Regulator scrum begins"Jul 30 08:04
schestowitzMicrosoft owned the regulatorsJul 30 08:04
fewaspinJul 30 08:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 26,000 schools in Brazil move to GNU/Linux 30 08:07
Diablo-D3schestowitz: who cares thoughJul 30 08:11
Diablo-D3google will just hustle double time to kill bingJul 30 08:11
schestowitzYes.Jul 30 08:15
schestowitzWe still need Yahoo.Jul 30 08:15
schestowitzbrbJul 30 08:18
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 30 08:23:59 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovellJul 30 08:23
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Jul 30 08:23
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Fri Jun 12 17:24:05 2009Jul 30 08:23
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelJul 30 08:24
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Looks nice: ("The UK spaceplane aiming to go to a new level")Jul 30 09:31
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Infectious Diseases Study Site Questioned < >Jul 30 09:53
schestowitzFuture of Cyber Security: Hackers Have Grown Up 30 09:54
schestowitzGot Solar Panels? Utility Wants To Charge You For Not Using Their Energy < >Jul 30 09:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Loony story: US border station scraps sign that says "United States" because terror~1 might attack it < >Jul 30 10:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Student files lawsuit after coach distributed private Facebook content < > Private?? Facebook????Jul 30 10:05
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Gap Dumps Microsoft Windows for GNU/Linux 30 10:20
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Top IT Skill is Java (GPL), Runner up is GNU/Linux 30 10:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Against Poverty Initiative Makes the News 30 10:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Monash University Chooses GNU/Linux for the Clusters 30 10:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Clutter Toolkit 1.0.0 Released as LGPLv2.1 30 10:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] antiX-M8.2 Reviewed 30 10:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How to Try GNU/Linux Without Conceding Windows Too Fast 30 10:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Canonical CTO Refutes Reports About Debian Release Changes 30 10:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Over Half of Virtutech's Customers Run Simics on Linux" 30 10:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] World’s Smallest Desktop PC Runs GNU/Linux 30 10:43
schestowitzHenry Kingman seems to have left eWeek or somethingJul 30 10:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Portable Media Player Runs Linux 30 10:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Small Hardware Gains Linux Support 30 10:46
oiaohmStart of the new wave of arm devices.Jul 30 10:48
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oiaohmHmm little early this year.Jul 30 10:48
schestowitzWatch this next one:Jul 30 10:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ASUS Spin-off Runs GNU/Linux on ARM Sub-notebooks 30 10:50
schestowitz[Older:] Researcher: Chrome to boost Atom to ARM switch in netbooks < > expected 55% market share for ARMJul 30 10:50
fewayepJul 30 10:51
fewav8 optimizes to ARMJul 30 10:51
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oiaohmThey are being conservitive.Jul 30 10:51
oiaohmSamba + ADS will kinda open up a pandoras box on windows.Jul 30 10:52
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oiaohmIf distribitions are smart enough to use ADS to deploy MS Office to Open source server interfaces Lot of MS market could be in major trouble.Jul 30 10:53
oiaohm  << Hmm the bluring between desktop and cloud is starting.Jul 30 11:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Software Programmer Explain Motivation 30 11:06
schestowitzoiaohm: deja vuJul 30 11:07
schestowitzDidn't they announce this a year ago?Jul 30 11:07
schestowitzAlso, IBM keeps making Linux announcements (desktop), but it's just PR. IBM doesn't do jack about it.Jul 30 11:08
oiaohmRedhat a year ago.Jul 30 11:08
oiaohmPart of KVMJul 30 11:08
oiaohmBig difference this time is the provided cloud OS keeps functional after disconnecting.Jul 30 11:09
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schestowitzoiaohm: ah, OK. Sure, it's evolutionary, but the idea is oldJul 30 11:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] DRM Leads to Outrage Again #defectivebydesignJul 30 11:12
fewa"cloud"Jul 30 11:12
schestowitz"Fog"Jul 30 11:13
schestowitzIt's pouring out here today... amazing downflallJul 30 11:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] MAFIAA's Revenue is Up, But It is Suing and Whining Nonetheless 30 11:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Newspapers Cartel Attacks Freedom of Information -- Again 30 11:17
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Canadian Copyright Cartel Uses Taxpayer Money to Attack the Public's Rights 30 11:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Human Operations Patented (for Shame) 30 11:20
fewa Larry Ellison - What The Hell Is Cloud Computing?Jul 30 11:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] I have the words "bugger all" in a Birmingham accent in my head. What's that from? Old TV advert or comedy sketch... arrgh silly brain!Jul 30 11:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Nasscom Slammed for Selling Indians to Multinationals 30 11:24
schestowitzYes, cloud = SaaSJul 30 11:25
schestowitzTrueJul 30 11:25
schestowitzOr virtualisationJul 30 11:25
schestowitzLike pile of serversJul 30 11:25
oiaohmcloud is about network providing.Jul 30 11:25
schestowitzFogJul 30 11:25
schestowitzoiaohm: software via wiresJul 30 11:25
oiaohmSo can be SaaSJul 30 11:26
schestowitzhehe. Good video, fewa Jul 30 11:26
oiaohmsoftware via wires would be a closer to what it is.Jul 30 11:26
fewaclassicJul 30 11:26
oiaohmProblem is no one has fully worked out how to do it.Jul 30 11:26
schestowitzThey need to redesign the siteJul 30 11:27
schestowitzPictures of windmills and cloudsJul 30 11:27
schestowitzLots of clouds!Jul 30 11:27
schestowitzCloud images sell!Jul 30 11:27
schestowitzMy CPU is my cloudJul 30 11:28
schestowitzI send my tasks to itJul 30 11:28
oiaohmCloud computing has always been a very general idea.Jul 30 11:28
schestowitzI am afraid that my data is locked in in the cloud HDDJul 30 11:28
schestowitzI mean, what if the HDD has a downtime (bad sector)?Jul 30 11:28
schestowitzoiaohm: used to be SaaSJul 30 11:29
schestowitzSOA is relatedJul 30 11:29
oiaohmNot exactly schestowitzJul 30 11:29
schestowitzIt relies on stupid PHBsJul 30 11:29
oiaohmSaaS was a sub form.Jul 30 11:29
schestowitzThey see bruchures with cloudsJul 30 11:29
schestowitz*brochuresJul 30 11:29
oiaohmSun with java really started the idea of cloud.  With the net OS idea.Jul 30 11:30
schestowitznetpc?Jul 30 11:30
oiaohmWhere all application would be provided by net to the pc.Jul 30 11:30
oiaohmIdea has not really disappeared just years of trying to work out best way to make it work.Jul 30 11:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Good rant: Larry Ellison - What The Hell Is Cloud Computing? < >Jul 30 11:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] On The Microsoft Movement and Free Software Hating 30 11:32
Ngyou can see clouds as more than SaaS, they can be PaaS and IaaS tooJul 30 11:32
Nge.g. EC2 is a mix of IaaS and PaaSJul 30 11:32
fewaNg, PisSJul 30 11:33
Ng(Platform and Infrastructure, respectively)Jul 30 11:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why Mono Proponents Show Remnants of "Zealotry" 30 11:33
Diablo-D3hehJul 30 11:33
Diablo-D3clouds are funJul 30 11:33
*Diablo-D3 should build neJul 30 11:33
fewaFoggJul 30 11:33
fewaFogg computingJul 30 11:33
Diablo-D3$$$$$$$Jul 30 11:33
NgDiablo-D3: grab a recent ubuntu and apt-get install eucalyptus-* :)Jul 30 11:33
schestowitzSnoop Foggy FoggJul 30 11:34
Diablo-D3wtfs thatJul 30 11:34
Ng 30 11:34
fewaa too-fast-thrown-together copy of amazon S3Jul 30 11:34
NgEC2 and S3 and NBSJul 30 11:35
Diablo-D3hahJul 30 11:35
Diablo-D3sounds lameJul 30 11:35
fewaA platform which must have paid people to make the API as horrid as possibleJul 30 11:35
Diablo-D3I should write my own cloud storage systemJul 30 11:35
Diablo-D3using.... FUSEJul 30 11:35
Ngfewa: the API is largely EC2s APIJul 30 11:35
fewaDiablo-D3, DRBDJul 30 11:35
fewaNg, i was referring to Amazon APIJul 30 11:36
oiaohmMost people don't get where the world cloud in cloud computing is come from.Jul 30 11:36
fewaoiaohm, LCD, ie head in the clouds/fogJul 30 11:36
oiaohmcloud is coming form creating network diagrams.Jul 30 11:36
Diablo-D3fewa: lololnoJul 30 11:36
Ngfewa: it's not great, but it is known, which is a start :)Jul 30 11:36
Ngeucalyptus is pretty easy to get running and is developing at a good paceJul 30 11:36
oiaohmIe the section of network you don't know how its hooked up gets put in  cloud picture.Jul 30 11:36
fewaoiaohm, aka, it does whatever it feels likeJul 30 11:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Vistaster" Forced Upon Computer Buyers 30 11:37
oiaohmWhen you under stand that.  Cloud computing is computing done over a network.   So a super vage term.Jul 30 11:37
Diablo-D3it should be easy to write a mass storage networking file systemJul 30 11:38
NgI think network file systems exist already ;)Jul 30 11:38
Diablo-D3Ng: noJul 30 11:38
Diablo-D3theres none that can do sane concurrent distributed storageJul 30 11:39
Diablo-D3the closest is glusterJul 30 11:39
Ngit is about time we had one a distributed storage system that was full of justwork magicJul 30 11:41
Ngbut it does turn out that it's a pretty hard problem ;)Jul 30 11:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 'Security' Software for Windows Does More Harm Than Good 30 11:41
Diablo-D3Ng: actually, it isnt that hardJul 30 11:41
Diablo-D3after Im done taking over the world, I should write oneJul 30 11:41
NgDiablo-D3: my money says you'll get stuck into it and discover that it is quite hard ;)Jul 30 11:42
oiaohm Warped stuff like this already exists.Jul 30 11:42
*Diablo-D3 breaks out the javaJul 30 11:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Almost All Windows Users Are Ripe for Inclusion in Botnet 30 11:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Could Exploit Cronyoo! to Spread Lock-in Around the Web 30 11:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Bartz says search engine Bing unlikely to make significant mark" 30 11:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ODF Spreads, Microsoft Shills Attack it by Pretending to be ODF Folks 30 11:46
fewaschestowitz, almost all Windows users _are_ on a botnetJul 30 11:46
fewajust matters which one at this point...Jul 30 11:47
schestowitzfewa: 40%Jul 30 11:47
schestowitzI dread using a Windows boxJul 30 11:47
schestowitzI would not get farJul 30 11:47
schestowitzI refute to enter passwords on itJul 30 11:47
schestowitzE.g. to enter a site or something... keyloggers, zombies, and so on.Jul 30 11:48
schestowitzfewa: did you see Moody's new talk?Jul 30 11:50
schestowitzKeynote.. nice talk.. I'm watching it nowJul 30 11:50
fewanoJul 30 11:51
schestowitzI'll put it up laterJul 30 12:00
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trmanco 30 12:47
schestowitz"  * Implement org.gnome.Gnote.RemoteControl to mimic Tomboy DBus API."Jul 30 13:15
trmancoyeahJul 30 13:18
trmancoDbusJul 30 13:18
trmancoa bunch of bugs were fixed in tomboy, he ported them to gnoteJul 30 13:19
trmanco 30 13:20
twitter July 2009 (Joel Tanenbaum was sued by the RIAA)Jul 30 13:22
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twitter ->  Nesson: “Is the reason for these lawsuits to teach people a lesson?” Cho: “Yes.”Jul 30 13:24
twitterJoel is a PhD candidate in Physics.Jul 30 13:24
twitterThe RIAA wants $4 million dollars from him.Jul 30 13:25
twitterHe made the mistake of liking and sharing RIAA owned music.Jul 30 13:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Further Progress for ODF, But Derailing Still Attempted by the Microsoft Crowd 30 13:29
schestowitztwitter: he should have stuck to non-RIAA musicJul 30 13:29
schestowitz 30 13:30
twitterI think so, but that eliminates most of recorded music history.Jul 30 13:30
twitterRMS is right about this.  It is wrong to keep people from sharing.Jul 30 13:30
twitterIt's about more than music.Jul 30 13:30
twitterPeople should be able to make libraries of journal articles, for example.Jul 30 13:31
schestowitzThey should abolish RIAA music tooJul 30 13:32
schestowitzThat'll drive the artists to the right, ethical business modelJul 30 13:32
schestowitzSome of them thrive in YouTube.Jul 30 13:32
schestowitzThey needn't have moguls/middlemen telling them what to do, either.Jul 30 13:32
twitterThe RIAA is a criminal organization and so are it's members.  They have committed serious fraud that should be prosecuted.Jul 30 13:33
schestowitz <-- this pair was successful enough on YouTube, so they appeared on EllenJul 30 13:34
schestowitzThe same goes for that professor of that Last Lecture whom Oprah invitedJul 30 13:34
schestowitzI don't mind the RIAA. I don't use their stuff. Others would be indifferent if they let em drop like the newspapersJul 30 13:35
twitterEllen and Oprah are creatures of broadcast monopoly.Jul 30 13:35
schestowitzThere's better music out there... from people who WANT you to download their artJul 30 13:35
schestowitztwitter: indeedJul 30 13:35
schestowitzBut Web video is growing in the USJul 30 13:35 has a wonderful collection.Jul 30 13:35
schestowitzIt's not the CBS and NBCs that growJul 30 13:35 tooJul 30 13:35
schestowitzSee the video from Moody that I posted in BN this morningJul 30 13:35
schestowitzhe speaks about a lotJul 30 13:36
twitterpeople will share and the monopolists will die of neglect.Jul 30 13:36
twitterthe harm they do must be fought in the mean time.Jul 30 13:36
schestowitzThey can change the law thoughJul 30 13:37
schestowitzWe need to guard the Feds.. corruptibleJul 30 13:37
schestowitzEye on Microsoft: Windows and Insecurity < > Windows is not getting more secureJul 30 13:40
twitterNo one can make Windows secure.  This is a flaw all non free software shares.  Windows is an egregious case of a general problem.Jul 30 13:46
oiaohmIts not impossiable to make windows secure but it requires some very hard selections that end up with most windows applications in existance not running.Jul 30 13:47
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oiaohmIssue is not the OS alone.  Lot of windows applications are designed to work in a non secure envorment.Jul 30 13:48
twitterSource code and freedom are required.  You don't have either with Windows.  -> oiaohm: Its not impossiable to make windows secure but it requires some very hard selectionsJul 30 13:50
oiaohmSame kind of high security alterations done to Linux applications.   Most of them will stay running due to being designed to run in secure envorments.Jul 30 13:50
twitter"selections" == security voodoo.Jul 30 13:50
oiaohmThe idea that binaryes cannot be audited is flawed twitter.Jul 30 13:51
tacone 30 13:51
oiaohmDue to complier defects it pays to audit produced binaries.Jul 30 13:51
twitterof course, working systems can be monitored.  free software people do this too as proof of concept.  but you can only fix the problems you find in practice when you have source code and freedom.Jul 30 13:52
oiaohmNote source code is cheeper to audit than binaries.Jul 30 13:52
oiaohmIe hard selections twitterJul 30 13:52
oiaohmVery expensive selections.Jul 30 13:52
oiaohmProblem of closing the holes with windows is a lot of programs just will not run because they depend on the flaws to operate.Jul 30 13:53
twitterohm, you don't even convince yourself with that kind of talk.Jul 30 13:53
oiaohmTools required to binary audit basically convert program back to asm and audit the operation from there twitter.   Its painful.     I guess you have never had to do it twitter.Jul 30 13:55
twitterYou run in circles, ohm, but you keep coming back to reality. -> Problem of closing the holes with windows is [some lame excuse]Jul 30 13:56
oiaohmNot exactly lame.Jul 30 13:57
twitterbut always some excuse.  non free software can not be fixed.Jul 30 13:57
oiaohmThe truth is people coding for windows most of them have not bothered about secure or safe programing.Jul 30 13:57
oiaohmInstead hooked threw flaws for the fastest performance.Jul 30 13:57
oiaohmSomething that is classed as stupidity to do in the open source world.Jul 30 13:58
oiaohmBecause flaws will be removed.Jul 30 13:58
twitterYes, M$ has admitted that.  The problem is that no one but they can fix it.  Windows has some of the worse performance of any OS, please stop bullshitting yourself.Jul 30 13:58
oiaohmNot exactly true.Jul 30 13:58
oiaohmYes someone can fix it if they are prepared to pay the price.Jul 30 13:59
oiaohmOf incompadiblity.Jul 30 13:59
twitter*** twitter ignores person who runs in circles to promote Windows.Jul 30 13:59
oiaohmSimple MS is not prepared to do what is right.Jul 30 13:59
oiaohmYou call what I call promote Windows.Jul 30 14:00
oiaohmIts not.  If your applications are coded by coders who just care about performance at any cost.  You are simply a sitting duck secuirty wise.Jul 30 14:01
twitterWe see this kind of thing everywhere ->  We have repeatedly warned and offered examples where ODF-hostile people were entering ODF mailing lists. They pretend to be friends of ODF in order to curse itJul 30 14:01
twitterreplace ODF with anything not M$.Jul 30 14:01
oiaohmPart of understanding a problem is understanding what caused it.  History is important to avoiding mistakes.Jul 30 14:01
oiaohmLot of important lessions on what to never do can be takin from this history of windows twitterJul 30 14:02
oiaohmIts like Linux and Unix's trying to get rid of root user.   Its a known problem.  So over the years methods to deal with it have been developed.   Sometimes causing major incompadiblities.Jul 30 14:04
oiaohmThe difference between windows and Linux is the willingness to do the right thing.Jul 30 14:05
oiaohmby secuirty.Jul 30 14:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] RT @tweetmeme Bing is not Google, but it is a spin engine. 30 14:05
oiaohmThere have been other closed source OS's that are older than windows and never had anywhere near the same numbers of problems.  Due to pure willingness to remove flaws no matter the cost.Jul 30 14:06
oiaohmYour claim that windows is unfixable is wrong twitter.   Its lack of willingness to pay the required price to fix it.   If they are not willing to pay the price to fix what else is wrong.Jul 30 14:07
oiaohmAnd the scary thing about someone developing a OS and not willing to pay the price of fixing flaws ie some times incompadiblies is a snow ball effect leading to a less and less secure OS.Jul 30 14:10
oiaohmThe effect could happen just as simple in a Open Source OS as a closed source one.Jul 30 14:10
oiaohmAnd the bigger the snow ball the large the price to fix it.Jul 30 14:11
oiaohmThe problem with people like twitter claiming the problem of windows secuirty as not fixable is then MS does not have to because the problem is too large to fix.Jul 30 14:14
oiaohmReally twitter you are being pro problem claiming its unfixable.Jul 30 14:14
oiaohm By the way twitter Linux kernel has had its snow balls of problems.   Just when they are located the price has been paid to fix them.   ie all the 1.x. and 2.x version changes have been caused by them.Jul 30 14:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Time to Drop the Word “Zealot” from Software Debates? 30 14:20
schestowitztwitter: oiaohm is not your enemyJul 30 14:21
schestowitz*sigh*Jul 30 14:21
twitteroiaohm pretends Windows can be fixed and projects it's flaws onto free software.  It's nonsense I don't care to read.Jul 30 14:22
oiaohmNo twitterJul 30 14:22
oiaohmI explained something important about secuirty twitterJul 30 14:23
schestowitzDiversity is key to securityJul 30 14:23
oiaohmThe snow ball effect.Jul 30 14:23
twitterDiversity is not possible without freedom.Jul 30 14:23
oiaohmMS has alowned themselves to snow ball themselves in.Jul 30 14:23
twitterWindows is and always be what M$ makes it.Jul 30 14:23
schestowitzLinux is also sophisticated in its structureJul 30 14:23
schestowitzUnlike WIndows, it limits damage with random mem allocations and sandboxingJul 30 14:24
oiaohmBy not taking small pain.Jul 30 14:24
schestowitzSo rotten apps won't mess you up totallyJul 30 14:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How Free Software Can Save the World, According to @glynmoody 30 14:24
oiaohmLot of the reason why MS random memory allocations don't work is MS unwillines to break old applications.Jul 30 14:24
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oiaohmAt every chance to make Windows secure MS retreats to backwards compadiblity so leaving a secuirty mess.Jul 30 14:25
schestowitzoiaohm: we are fortunate that Windows was built so insecure and for compatibility reason this may never be mendedJul 30 14:25
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, beat me to it.Jul 30 14:25
twitteryou can get random mem allocations, but you don't even have to try.  GNU/Linux's distribution, architecture and module diversity insure that no two computers will have the same memory map at a low level.Jul 30 14:25
schestowitzALso versonsJul 30 14:26
schestowitzNew releases every 6-8 monthsJul 30 14:26
schestowitzVery trickey to create botnets this way. No uniformityJul 30 14:26
twitterand user costomizatonsJul 30 14:26
oiaohmBefore random memory allocation entered Linux kernel sorry lot of key memory points were fixed twitterJul 30 14:26
schestowitzIE and OE monoculutre is troublesome tooJul 30 14:26
schestowitzHehe. MinesweeperJul 30 14:27
twitterEven an extreme case, like the EEE PC is limited damage compared to Windows.Jul 30 14:27
oiaohmDifferent kernels did not alter that twitter until the selection was taken to break a stack of drivers at the 1.x to 2.x change of the Linux kernel.Jul 30 14:27
schestowitzHow many IP addresses won't have minesw~1.exe somewhere on the disk?Jul 30 14:27
oiaohmLinux has a history of taken the right options twitterJul 30 14:28
twitterSupposes someone figures out how to p0wn EEE PC with a Flash attack.  They get a small selection of EEE PCs.  I doubt the same thing would work on a Dell mini.Jul 30 14:28
oiaohmAnd it shows.Jul 30 14:28
twitterand, of course, it won't bother my Debian set up which has no flash.Jul 30 14:28
twitterThat's free software diversity in action.Jul 30 14:28
oiaohmProblem is the diversity is not a great as you make out.Jul 30 14:29
oiaohmLinux userspace ABI from the kernel is basically a constant.Jul 30 14:29
oiaohmFrom there lot of information can be probed.Jul 30 14:30
twitterDrive by attacks are greatly reduced in effectiveness, spread times are larger and payoff is smaller.Jul 30 14:30
oiaohmWithout the introduction of LSM that created diversity making a probing a risky sport from hell on some systems Linux would be open to attack.Jul 30 14:30
oiaohmSelections done in the formation of Linux secuirty have been critical.Jul 30 14:31
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oiaohmI don't think twitter gets it yet.  Its not just diversity.   Its design and willing ness to do what is right.  I still remember the pain selinux caused when it was first introduced in 2000 schestowitzJul 30 14:34
oiaohmBugger I missed it I missed asking twitter if open source is so great why is freedos and other open source dos releations dos virus compadible.  Diversity alone does not give secuirty.Jul 30 14:39
Geodediversity is another name for obscurity, and obscurity is only a limited defense agaist attack, if the prize is worth it no OS is secure. Just there are far more of easier (soft) targets. But if the prize is high enough it will be targetted.Jul 30 14:43
oiaohmLinux servers holding lots of major data around the world they are quite targeted.Jul 30 14:45
Geodeyes, they are, and sometimes successfully. your rightJul 30 14:45
oiaohmSo proper formal security designs have had to be done for linux and backwards compadiblity broken to fix security at times.Jul 30 14:46
oiaohmIts pure willingness to do the right thing is the major difference between Linux and Windows.Jul 30 14:47
Geodeno OS or app is ammune from security issues, and all require keeping security in mind at all stages.Jul 30 14:47
oiaohmOf course not immune doing the right things reduce the risks a lot.Jul 30 14:48
schestowitzGeode is _Mutex_Jul 30 14:48
Geodethats politics, I dont want to get into biases or politics, just technically all OS come under attack. but all OS's can be securedJul 30 14:48
schestowitzThe style gave it away, the lookup confirms: 30 14:49
oiaohmWithout major break in application compadiblity lot of windows issues cannot be fixed.Jul 30 14:49
oiaohmSo far MS has not been willing the pay the price.Jul 30 14:49
>ChanServ<op #boycottnovell schestowitzJul 30 14:49
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzJul 30 14:49
Geodeyou can pick a logical argument a mile off Roy :)Jul 30 14:49
*schestowitz sets ban on *!n=mandybea@121.217.249.*Jul 30 14:49
*schestowitz has kicked Geode from #boycottnovell (schestowitz)Jul 30 14:49
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitzJul 30 14:49
schestowitzWatch out for next morphJul 30 14:50
oiaohm_Mutex_ does not put up a logical arguement.Jul 30 14:50
oiaohmAnother 2 lines and he was toast.Jul 30 14:50
Diablo-D3schestowitz: you knowJul 30 14:50
Diablo-D3we should cook up some schemeJul 30 14:50
Diablo-D3to buy microsoft stockJul 30 14:50
schestowitzI don't ban him for what he says now BTWJul 30 14:50
Diablo-D3you know why?Jul 30 14:50
schestowitzIt's the fact that he ban-evades after past abuses with like 10-20 other namesJul 30 14:50
schestowitz*emphasis on _now_Jul 30 14:51
Diablo-D3we could donate the dividends to foss legal fundsJul 30 14:51
schestowitzWithout stating that it's same old Mutex it might seem like elimination of dissentJul 30 14:51
oiaohmIe MS has over 15 years of spent stacked up problems.Jul 30 14:51
schestowitzHe also does the same in BN commentsJul 30 14:51
*Diablo-D3 sighsJul 30 14:51
schestowitzHe comes from the anti-Linux siteJul 30 14:51
oiaohmWhy buy MS.Jul 30 14:52
oiaohmLet them die.Jul 30 14:52
Diablo-D3oiaohm: think about itJul 30 14:52
Diablo-D3microsoft would fund their own destructionJul 30 14:52
oiaohmHmmJul 30 14:52
schestowitz"But MSFT, save Yahoo" ;-)Jul 30 14:52
schestowitz*BuyJul 30 14:52
oiaohmYes MS might be just dumb enought to do that.Jul 30 14:52
Diablo-D3yahoo is a bad investmentJul 30 14:53
oiaohmThinking at one time MS sued themselves.Jul 30 14:53
Diablo-D3oiaohm: wellJul 30 14:53
Diablo-D3ms cant control who owns their stockJul 30 14:53
Diablo-D3so we could just shunt their revenues to pro-foss groupsJul 30 14:53
oiaohmPay some group to talk out against Open sourceJul 30 14:53
Diablo-D3its Free Money (tm)Jul 30 14:54
oiaohmOnly one problem that group has the compete Idea of buying MS out.Jul 30 14:54
oiaohmWith there own money.Jul 30 14:54
oiaohmIt would be so funny.Jul 30 14:54
Diablo-D3ibm should buy microsoft just to kill itJul 30 14:54
Diablo-D3microsoft is standing between a lot of companies and said companies' profitsJul 30 14:55
oiaohmWhat would IBM gain other than wasted money that could go into Linux development.Jul 30 14:55
Diablo-D3ibm includedJul 30 14:55
Diablo-D3oiaohm: see aboveJul 30 14:55
Diablo-D3microsoft is in the way.Jul 30 14:55
Diablo-D3its the cost of doing business imoJul 30 14:55
oiaohmIBM is funding Linux to by pass MS.Jul 30 14:55
oiaohmAnd cause MS to give them software cheep.Jul 30 14:55
oiaohmHopefully less than it costs to maintain.Jul 30 14:56
Diablo-D3I wish IBM would spend more on java developmentJul 30 14:56
oiaohmThat is orcales department.Jul 30 14:56
Diablo-D3its also ibm'sJul 30 14:57
Diablo-D3ibm has their own javaJul 30 14:57
Diablo-D3and they very much rely on java developmentJul 30 14:57
Diablo-D3same way oracle needs java because lots of apps that use oracle db are custom enterprise javaJul 30 14:57
oiaohmEach of the Platinum Members of the Linux foundation has a major job they are responsable for.  They do dable in other areas.Jul 30 14:58
Diablo-D3ibm needs java because lots of people buy ibm boxes to run enterprise java onJul 30 14:58
oiaohmIBM's is mostly documentation.  Very good documentation.Jul 30 14:58
Diablo-D3IBM doesnt make money on their docs =PJul 30 14:58
Diablo-D3they make money on their enterprise hardwareJul 30 14:58
Diablo-D3they are still very much a large hardware shopJul 30 14:58
oiaohmThere docs are important to using the hardware effectively.Jul 30 14:59
Diablo-D3they're going to eventually finish their transition to a majority of software somedayJul 30 14:59
Diablo-D3and then go to SaaSJul 30 14:59
Diablo-D3Oracle+Sun and IBM aren't "competitors"Jul 30 14:59
oiaohmAll the linux foundation plat members bar one are hardware makers.Jul 30 15:00
oiaohmWith Linux most of the profit is in the sales of hardware.Jul 30 15:00
Diablo-D3governments, major companies, and militaries often have policies that state there must be at least two vendors to source a product fromJul 30 15:00
oiaohmWith bundled support contracts.Jul 30 15:00
Diablo-D3I imagine Sunacle and IBM will be the last men standingJul 30 15:00
oiaohmHP and Dell are still also standing.Jul 30 15:01
Diablo-D3HP is..... mehJul 30 15:01
Diablo-D3and Dell is bargin basement shitJul 30 15:01
Diablo-D3I mean, could you take a large company seriously if they had racks full of Dell shit?Jul 30 15:01
oiaohmHP has come back from the edges that many times you cannot count them out.Jul 30 15:02
Diablo-D3I don't like HP enterprise anymoreJul 30 15:02
oiaohmSorry to say here in Australia racks full of Dell stuff is not uncommon.Jul 30 15:02
Diablo-D3HP used to have enterprise stuff worth buyingJul 30 15:02
Diablo-D3low end HP enterprise stuff costs as much as DellJul 30 15:03
oiaohmDell stuff is cheap enought to afford the extra bits to cover the stablity problem.Jul 30 15:03
Diablo-D3high end HP enterprise stuff costs as much as IBM or Sun's low end stuffJul 30 15:03
Diablo-D3so either you just buy Dell or you buy Sun or IBMJul 30 15:03
Diablo-D3oiaohm: noJul 30 15:03
Diablo-D3if Im going that routeJul 30 15:03
Diablo-D3I just build the shit myselfJul 30 15:03
Diablo-D3which is ultimately a better solution anyhowJul 30 15:04
oiaohmI wish I could with some companies.Jul 30 15:04
oiaohmThey have 5 years free hardware replacement if it breaks with dell contracts.Jul 30 15:04
Diablo-D3I mean, I can even build blade serversJul 30 15:05
oiaohmSo can I.   Lot of companies here just love dell stuff.Jul 30 15:06
Diablo-D3no I meant likeJul 30 15:06
Diablo-D3supermicro's stuffJul 30 15:06
Diablo-D3thats pretty nifty imoJul 30 15:06
oiaohmI can get any custom case from design I want built in 3 days.  Yes I mean pure unique case for location.Jul 30 15:07
oiaohmSo its not that I cannot do it.   Got all the machine shops i need to build all kinds.Jul 30 15:08
oiaohmProblem is client willing ness to trust a non big name.Jul 30 15:08
Diablo-D3I love working for myselfJul 30 15:09
Diablo-D3:DJul 30 15:09
Diablo-D3I just realized somethingJul 30 15:10
Diablo-D3istanbul opterons have 6 coresJul 30 15:10
Diablo-D3supermicro makes blades that take four of those.Jul 30 15:11
Diablo-D310 blades fit in a boxJul 30 15:11
Diablo-D3the box is 4u tallJul 30 15:12
Diablo-D3er whoopsJul 30 15:12
Diablo-D37u tallJul 30 15:12
Diablo-D3so thats 240 cores in a really tiny spaceJul 30 15:13
Diablo-D3short of VPS selling combined with a storage cluster, I have no clue what to do with that much power.Jul 30 15:13
oiaohmRender a blender movie.Jul 30 15:13
oiaohmIt will find a way to eat it all.Jul 30 15:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More RAND and Hostility Towards Standards, Courtesy of Microsoft 30 15:14
Diablo-D3seriously though, thats a lot of CPU powerJul 30 15:14
oiaohmI am 100 percent serious.Jul 30 15:14
Diablo-D3thats 240 cores in twice the space of where I have 2 cores.Jul 30 15:15
oiaohmI have seen blender creating some videos give a 1024 core system almost max load.Jul 30 15:15
Diablo-D3my case is roughly 4U sizedJul 30 15:15
oiaohmIt is one of the biggest cpu munches I know.Jul 30 15:15
Diablo-D3yeah, 3D rendering does take a lotJul 30 15:16
oiaohmIssue is video rendering does not use GPU yet.Jul 30 15:16
Diablo-D3that box is probably $10k tooJul 30 15:16
Diablo-D3oiaohm: noJul 30 15:16
Diablo-D3they have renderers written in opencl nowJul 30 15:16
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oiaohmFor game engine last time I looked Diablo-D3Jul 30 15:16
oiaohmNot video render Diablo-D3Jul 30 15:16
Diablo-D3no, I meant offline raytracersJul 30 15:16
Diablo-D3notice I said openclJul 30 15:16
Diablo-D3as in, gpgpuJul 30 15:16
oiaohmHmm what version did that sneek in Diablo-D3Jul 30 15:17
Diablo-D3I didnt say for blenderJul 30 15:17
Diablo-D3I just said they have renderers that use gpgpusJul 30 15:18
oiaohmAnd I am refering to the default blender render engine.Jul 30 15:18
oiaohmThat does a really nice job other than being a CPU hog from hell at times.Jul 30 15:18
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trmanco 30 16:01
Eruaraninteresting conversationJul 30 16:14
trmancowith a bot :-)Jul 30 16:19
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] i boggle that Garfield Minus Garfield is now running on the official United Comics site 30 16:27
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Diablo-D3bahJul 30 16:34
Diablo-D3thats not funny at allJul 30 16:34
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Omar87HiJul 30 16:51
Omar87Did the GIMPShop project die?Jul 30 16:51
taconeafaik yesJul 30 16:57
taconeugly patchJul 30 16:57
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trmanco 30 17:37
tacone1usually is funnier when it's some proprietary software displaying some expired license alertboxJul 30 17:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @MXC: All we need to do is proof that migrating your servers/desktop to linux stops the spread of swine flu and the world is ours.Jul 30 17:40
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] it's a good thing for microsoft that drm is infallible 30 17:53
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] today's interview moved to tomorrow, another monday. w00t! DAMN YOU WORLD, GIVE ME MONEY.Jul 30 18:06
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schestowitzBT profits hit by Global Services < >Jul 30 18:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] What will happen to Hadoop (FOSS) now that Microsoft turned Cronyahoo! into a zombie? 30 18:18
*PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving")Jul 30 18:19
tessier_Nothing will happen to Hadoop.Jul 30 18:19
tessier_It is FOSS and has a life of its own now.Jul 30 18:19
*tessier_ just received the O'Reilly Hadoop book a few days ago.Jul 30 18:19
tessier_It's on my queue to read.Jul 30 18:19
schestowitzCentOS has a newsletter nowJul 30 18:20
tessier_I hope this missing CentOS lead developer thing doesn't seriously impact the project.Jul 30 18:20
schestowitziPhone Encryption Useless < >Jul 30 18:21
schestowitztessier: there's half a dozen other RHEL clonesJul 30 18:21
tessier_None with anywhere near the proven track record of CentOS.Jul 30 18:22
schestowitzNot unless CentOS users move to them :-)Jul 30 18:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz not to mention zimbra.Jul 30 18:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard: Zimbra is not related to searchJul 30 18:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] UK's national ID card unveiled < > So when do I get my RFID for the nostril?Jul 30 18:30
schestowitz 30 18:33
schestowitz" Microsoft has much to gain from Yahoo, especially in “Street cred” and cross platform capabilities.  Remember that Yahoo is not a Windows shop, so Microsoft will be gaining invaluable knowledge from the cross-pollination that will take place between the company’s employees. While Yahoo doesn’t innovate nearly as much as they used too, this deal has the potential to get their juices rolling again."Jul 30 18:33
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 10 ergonomic keyboards that actually do their job Nice gallery of photos thereJul 30 18:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Dell: New Ubuntu Desktop PC Launching Soon The anti-Linux propagandists try to claim Dell was dumping it.Jul 30 18:38
schestowitzOf Spiders and Scrapers: Decomposing Web Pages 101 < >Jul 30 18:44
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Are Cigarette Packs the New Cigarette Ads? < >Jul 30 18:48
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Open talk about propaganda against the population's involvement: 30 18:49
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Crackdown on sunbeds to cut cancer danger < > I used these for about a year; it's a good thing I stopped.Jul 30 19:03
schestowitz10,000 Uighurs disappeared during unrest in China, exiled leader claims < >Jul 30 19:05
schestowitz"Mono-nono is proud to present our first guest posting, from Dan Serban!" 30 19:08
schestowitzLaptop encryption — the ideal and the real 30 19:14
schestowitz" Cox Quits as TTY Maintainer [...] A dispute between Adam Cox and Linus Torvalds on the Linux kernel mailing list has led to Cox standing down as TTY subsystem maintainer." 30 19:15
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Alan Cox and Linus have disagrees for a long time about GPLv3 and now there are other sources of tension. :-|Jul 30 19:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Tomorrow will be the first time I ever get to see Petra and Rum Valley. :)Jul 30 19:43
GOMF_tAlan Cox ? or adam ?Jul 30 19:44
schestowitz 30 19:45
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linus implied that his Linux peers who distrust Microsoft have a "disease" Bad more: 30 20:00
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schestowitztessier: 30 20:02
tessierSaw the letter this morningJul 30 20:02
schestowitzDispute between Linux gurus Alan Cox and Linus Torvalds < >Jul 30 20:03
schestowitztessier: there are several teams that 'branch'/unbrand RHELJul 30 20:03
schestowitzSO no issue here really.Jul 30 20:03
Omar87Linus is really disappointing me.. -_-Jul 30 20:05
schestowitzThere were similar issues years agoJul 30 20:05
schestowitzWhen he said to someone "get the hell out of my mailbox' or something like thatJul 30 20:06
schestowitzIt almost forked IIRC, but it all gets resolved at the endJul 30 20:06
schestowitzHere's some fun news for a change: 10 Cool Unix/Linux Personalized License Plates < > :-DJul 30 20:07
tessierWish I had a cool Linux license plate. :(Jul 30 20:11
tessierBeen too lazy to think up something that is available and apply for it.Jul 30 20:11
GOMF_tim so lazy i dont even finiJul 30 20:14
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schestowitztessier: Create your own system branding < >Jul 30 20:16
schestowitztessier: I though you had oneJul 30 20:17
schestowitz*thought you said something about a vanity slogan on somethingJul 30 20:17
schestowitzGOMF_t is MutexJul 30 20:17
>ChanServ<op #boycottnovell schestowitzJul 30 20:18
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trmanco:OJul 30 20:19
trmancothis guy just never desistsJul 30 20:19
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tessierschestowitz: Nope. Used to have a bumper sticker, that's it.Jul 30 20:21
schestowitz..Turns out FSS uses Linux already :-);jsessionid=WGL2DDBLBXAHIQSNDLOSKHSCJUNN2JVN They spoke about moving to Linux desktop before.Jul 30 20:21
schestowitz*FAA (typo)Jul 30 20:21
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twitter1Free software makes progress on the desktop everywhere because it is the obvious replacement for Windows.Jul 30 20:23
twitter1Free software desktops have so outclassed Windows that only the fanatical, the ignorant or the deeply entrapped still use it.Jul 30 20:24
twitter1Hey, I'm #1Jul 30 20:25
twitter1bblJul 30 20:25
schestowitzBIND name server vulnerable to DoS attacks < >Jul 30 20:26
schestowitztwitter1: Just /nickJul 30 20:27
schestowitz /nick twitter (that'll remove the #1)Jul 30 20:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] change compression algorithm of KDE4 ark dolphin context menu < > It's all about choice.Jul 30 20:30
schestowitzoxygen has just gotten a  licence: 30 20:30
twitter1I don't think so.Jul 30 20:31
*twitter1 is now known as twitterJul 30 20:31
twitterso, I was wringJul 30 20:31
trmancowhat is awol?Jul 30 20:31
twitterAway without leave.Jul 30 20:31
schestowitztexstar is baaaaaaack :-) :-) 30 20:32
twittera military term for desertionJul 30 20:32
schestowitztrmanco: 30 20:32
twitterbblJul 30 20:32
trmancoah thanksJul 30 20:33
trmancoshould of googled itJul 30 20:33
schestowitz'In 1998, the United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights document called “Conscientious objection to military service, United Nations Commission on Human Rights resolution 1998/77” recognized that “persons [already] performing military service may develop conscientious objections” while performing military service'Jul 30 20:33
schestowitzA lot of military recruitment is still inherently unethicalJul 30 20:33
schestowitz"On May 28, 2006, the UK military reported over 1,000 deserters since the beginning of the Iraq war, with 566 deserting since 2005."Jul 30 20:34
schestowitz"According to the Pentagon, more than 5,500 military personnel deserted in 2003–2004, following the Iraq invasion and occupation."Jul 30 20:34
schestowitz 30 20:35
schestowitz'In the common parlance, this principle could be paraphrased as follows: "It is not an acceptable excuse to say "I was just following my Superior's orders" "'Jul 30 20:35
Diablo-D3schestowitz: yes HOWEVERJul 30 20:36
Diablo-D3nothing of what Im about to say applies to Iraq, so Im not going to say it anyhowJul 30 20:37
Diablo-D3re: hitler's soldiers had their lives on the line, so its acceptable for themJul 30 20:37
Diablo-D3ie, "do it or I shoot you"Jul 30 20:37
schestowitzEven seniors like Eichmann?Jul 30 20:37
schestowitzOf course, Nuremberg trials proved fruitless as a lessonJul 30 20:38
Diablo-D3Im talking the actual ground poundersJul 30 20:38
Diablo-D3not the twit officersJul 30 20:38
schestowitzHad the Nuremberg rules applied today, some people in some countries we all know about would too be hangedJul 30 20:38
Diablo-D3schestowitz: yupJul 30 20:38
schestowitzDiablo-D3: maybe. LynchingJul 30 20:38
Diablo-D3and Im all for itJul 30 20:38
Diablo-D3you know why?Jul 30 20:38
Diablo-D3people in our own government conspired to put our country in dangerJul 30 20:39
schestowitz.I doubt itJul 30 20:39
schestowitzBut I think about the 80sJul 30 20:39
Diablo-D3bush knowingly bullshitted the american people and congressJul 30 20:39
schestowitzThat's when you have obvious grotesque exampleJul 30 20:39
Diablo-D3schestowitz: I hate bushJul 30 20:41
Diablo-D3every generation has a president they hateJul 30 20:41
Diablo-D3bush is mineJul 30 20:41
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New: Google's Wikipedia Wannabe (Knol) Explains Why and How to Migrate to GNU/Linux 30 20:48
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sebsebsebYou guys  may want to listen to this BBC  Redhat  guy interview: 30 20:52
schestowitzTHanks for reminding me to listen to it (which I will). I saw it days agoJul 30 20:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz you can be certain microsoft wants it dead dead dead with a chair through its skull, thoughJul 30 20:53
sebsebsebschestowitz: Yeah I saw it on the other dayJul 30 20:54
sebsebsebschestowitz: and listended to it this morningJul 30 20:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @schestowitz: maybe Bartzmer will defend itJul 30 20:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Kernel Space Gets Heaps More Graphics Drivers 30 21:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz the idea that knol is a "wp killer" is pure media fiction. it's nothing like it in any way. much more like 30 21:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Virt-manager 0.8.0 (KVM) is Offically Released 30 21:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @schestowitz Google Knol is to Wikipedia what Wolfram|Alpha it to Google...?Jul 30 21:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNOME 2.27.5 is Finally Out 30 21:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Review of Arch Linux 2009.02 30 21:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz like to google images. or bing to ms office. or chalk to cheese. or green to Tuesday. highly unrelated ;-pJul 30 21:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Review of an Easier Fedora Than Fedora (Omega) 30 21:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz google said knol is nothing like wp, wp thinks knol is nothing like wp. media just used "wp" as a hook to babble about knol.Jul 30 21:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz those xorg driver changes are mostly insignificant - just code cleanup AFAIK. nothing works better or worse.Jul 30 21:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard : yeah, well... still a distraction from the Cox incident. :-pJul 30 21:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Glance at a USB Key That Bypasses Windows with GNU/Linux A Glance at a USB Key That Bypasses Windows with GNU/LinuxJul 30 21:16
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] what doesn't kill you can make you stronger, apparently: europe got rich because life was utterly shit HT @glynmoodyJul 30 21:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Sharp Rise Seen in Free Software in the Philippines 30 21:25
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Preparations for Firefox 3.6 Already Begin 30 21:27
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Openness/Freedom Embraced by Berkley Academia 30 21:36
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft and Yahoo: Too Little, Too Late, Too Hyped Two broken SEs can't be 'combined' to make a good one.Jul 30 21:47
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schestowitzsebsebseb: just listened to the show; Good one...Jul 30 21:58
schestowitzPeter Day was a annoying at times.Jul 30 21:59
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sebsebsebschestowitz: indeed he wasJul 30 22:03
schestowitzEven rudeJul 30 22:03
sebsebsebyepJul 30 22:03
schestowitzMatthew did wellJul 30 22:05
schestowitzI still listen to him. Peter is like, "stop harassing us"Jul 30 22:07
schestowitzWhen I think about it, Day's job is at risk because this whole movement, but he's unfit to do this interview with his convictionsJul 30 22:08
sebsebsebI am behind on  reading Linux news,  and I also got podcasts I want to listen to,   thing is if I am listening to stuff on my computer,  it's useually musicJul 30 22:08
sebsebsebanother two guys that I got to listen to that interview,  got a bit annoyeed at it I thinkJul 30 22:09
sebsebsebthose two guys doing the interview I  don't  exactly know who they are,   I  just  got onto the thing  since linuxtodayJul 30 22:10
sebsebsebschestowitz: so by the sounds of it you have listended to stuff by these two before?Jul 30 22:11
schestowitzI have an article about the BBC coming later anywayJul 30 22:12
schestowitzI'll lump in a rant about Peter DayJul 30 22:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Women getting more beautiful, say Photoshop retouchers 30 22:12
sebsebsebschestowitz: oh your going to write/type something  about the BBC  for  the website?Jul 30 22:12
schestowitzAbout the interview but other more important thingsJul 30 22:13
schestowitzThe BBC and MicrosoftJul 30 22:13
schestowitzThey are in bed againJul 30 22:13
schestowitzHighfield fiascoJul 30 22:13
fewa 30 22:13
schestowitzThey swap staff in the UKJul 30 22:13
fewa^^ excellentJul 30 22:13
schestowitzVery incestuousJul 30 22:13
sebsebsebwould be great if they covered  opensource/freesoftware more  on the BBC  properly,  but no :(Jul 30 22:13
schestowitzHardly everJul 30 22:13
fewaTimothy geitner cant sell his own house.Jul 30 22:13
sebsebsebI mean BBC could be one way to get it advertised properly to the general publicJul 30 22:13
schestowitzThey also don't coverage media properlyJul 30 22:14
schestowitzThey spread MAFIAA propagandaJul 30 22:14
schestowitz"Piracy", "Thives" IP...Jul 30 22:14
sebsebsebuh what's this?Jul 30 22:14
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schestowitzThey see themselves as a victim in all thisJul 30 22:14
schestowitzThey don't like blogs, eitherJul 30 22:14
schestowitzsebsebseb: I hate the BBCJul 30 22:14
schestowitzI call them MSBBCJul 30 22:14
schestowitzSearch BN for "bbc" to get the picture (of what they have been doing)Jul 30 22:15
sebsebsebschestowitz: yeah   their technology section on the news site,  Linux hardly ever  gets mentionedJul 30 22:15
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schestowitzThe BBC is not cuddly like it used to be (Auntie)Jul 30 22:15
schestowitzsebsebseb: it does sometimesJul 30 22:15
schestowitzanti-Linux storiesJul 30 22:16
schestowitzAlwaysJul 30 22:16
sebsebsebwell they done some stuff on there about OLPC  beforeJul 30 22:16
schestowitzIt's not a coincidenceJul 30 22:16
sebsebsebthe OLPC  stuff wasn't negativeJul 30 22:16
schestowitz"We have 17.1 million users of in the UK and, as far as our server logs can make out, 5 per cent of those [use Macs] and around 400 to 600 are Linux users." --Ashley Highfield, BBCJul 30 22:16
schestowitzHe now works for Microsoft UKJul 30 22:16
schestowitzOLPC is not purely LinuxJul 30 22:16
sebsebsebiplayer eventaully came to Linux as well, but I woudn't install that since the  DRM,  plus  it's Adobe Air or whatever the Linux version, so more propritary stuffJul 30 22:17
schestowitziPlayer was a disasterJul 30 22:17
schestowitzStill isJul 30 22:17
schestowitzDownload Service..Jul 30 22:17
sebsebseb,but they have streaming iplayer as well, but with Flash of course,  not   HTML 5 and the <video> tag and  OGG,  and telling people to get Firefox 3.5 or  another browser that supports it, so they can play the videoJul 30 22:17
schestowitzHighfield and the DRM fantasies from MicrosoftJul 30 22:17
schestowitzThe Flash came after they got grilled and slammed by Parliament and the publicJul 30 22:18
schestowitzMake no mistake... it was NOT part of the planJul 30 22:18
schestowitzThese people had their job on the lineJul 30 22:18
sebsebsebto have a Linux version?Jul 30 22:18
schestowitzThey were brought to water and forced to drinkJul 30 22:18
sebsebsebwell they did say they wanted iplayer to work on many devicesJul 30 22:18
schestowitzsebsebseb: hardlyJul 30 22:18
schestowitzSomething for Ubuntu, to make up appearancesJul 30 22:18
schestowitzsebsebseb: ha!Jul 30 22:19
sebsebsebschestowitz: uh?Jul 30 22:19
schestowitzHardlyJul 30 22:19
schestowitzNever mindJul 30 22:19
schestowitzSee BN posts abut itJul 30 22:19
schestowitzit's old newsJul 30 22:19
schestowitzI've written about it since 2006Jul 30 22:19
schestowitzSome front pages tooJul 30 22:19
*sebsebseb to be honest I haven't read much of your stuff yetJul 30 22:19
sebsebsebI  read  an article on yoru site about removing Mono,  but I  think maybe that was even by someone else?Jul 30 22:20
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sebsebsebschestowitz: what about ITV?  like them?Jul 30 22:21
schestowitzJust posted daily news: 30 22:21
schestowitzI do it on a bi-daily basis again, as I did a year agoJul 30 22:22
schestowitzsebsebseb: Channel 4 and ITV have similar issuesJul 30 22:22
schestowitzBut... BBC is uniqueJul 30 22:22
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] by the way, desperate pimp of the day: "you've been looking for unix jobs in london - I have some positions open in Poland ..."Jul 30 22:31
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More New Evidence of the Incestuous Relationship Between the BBC and Microsoft 30 23:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard : better Polish that CV [pun]Jul 30 23:16
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Masters of FUD: Apple, IBM, and Microsoft 30 23:34
schestowitzzoobab01: what's up with that?? 30 23:35
schestowitzGoogle Gives Sony 1 Million More Books < > I like what GOogle does with literature, enabling the publicJul 30 23:37
schestowitztrmanco: No English coverage. We need s translation of what's available in .PR, I guess.Jul 30 23:38
schestowitz "According to another post, Davis "vanished" from the project sometime last year. And it too says Davis has sole access to the project's PayPal and Google AdSense accounts."Jul 30 23:40
schestowitztessier: Looks like sort of old news perhapsJul 30 23:40
schestowitzoiaohm should see this: (Cisco patches DoS vuln pair in IOS)Jul 30 23:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Dutch Court Sides With Anti-Piracy Group; Says Pirate Bay Must Block Dutch Web Surfers < >Jul 30 23:44
cjschestowitz: have you read through this? 30 23:48
cjI'll take my question offline.  long time reader, fifth time writer.  or maybe sixth.Jul 30 23:49
cjschestowitz: but srsly, you should read it if you have not.  If you want to raise a flag, you should claim that Mono doesn't meet the standards described in the Debian Social Contract.Jul 30 23:50
cjbut if you can't back it up, I would avoid doing so.Jul 30 23:50
cjyour history of not checking the facts before posting such claims is coming to mind.Jul 30 23:50
cjschestowitz: you could consider this definition of Free Software prior to the advent of the term "open source"Jul 30 23:52
cjschestowitz: if you are not familiar with it, you should become so if you would like to claim to speak for the Free Software or "F/OSS" community.Jul 30 23:53
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft's interception of some Android deals takes its toll. 30 23:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] CHROME OS – First look? #google #microsoft #linuxJul 30 23:55

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