IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 3rd, 2009

-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ubuntu GNU/Linux Brings Amiga Back 02 23:42
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft's Bundling Schemes Are Starting to Fail 02 23:44
oiaohmHmm they missed the aros solution for bring amiga world out of grave.Aug 02 23:44
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Laptop Sold for $369, Old Windows for $559 02 23:46
schestowitzgnAug 02 23:46
twittergnAug 02 23:50
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] wishing I knew how to spread the tools of autodidactism.Aug 02 23:57
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Omar87LOLAug 03 04:12
Omar87Hi guys!Aug 03 04:12
Omar87You're absolutely gonna love this: :)Aug 03 04:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Microsoft Yahoo merger (COMIC): So hilarious! :DAug 03 04:15
twitterhides real loss of second search engine.Aug 03 04:17
twittersadAug 03 04:17
twittertrue, but sadAug 03 04:18
Omar87twitter: Yeah, man.Aug 03 04:18
twitter:)Aug 03 04:18
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twitterArs says Word is dead 03 04:49
twittershould be a closed casketAug 03 04:49
twitterauthor was an idiot ->  I used to laugh at the WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS people, with their silly keyboard templates and inscrutable function-key combinationsAug 03 04:51
twitterjudged software by UI rather than function.Aug 03 04:51
twitterWord Perfect was dominant because of decent and consistent printed output.Aug 03 04:52
twitterAlmost as good and portable as Latex and a little bit easier to use.Aug 03 04:52
twitterWord was and remains a bad joke.Aug 03 04:53
twitterauthor is still an idiot ->  Word's document format will always be complicated, even if it is natively XML and completely open, simply because it has to support all the thousands of features that Word itself provides.Aug 03 04:56
twittertypography is not complicated.  You do not need 8,000 pages to put ink on a page in a repeatable way.Aug 03 04:57
twitterauthor presents M$ friendly revisionist history of OOXML ISO corruption.Aug 03 05:00
twitterWe are liable to see more of this bullshit.Aug 03 05:00
twitterha ha, author realizes the typical M$ document flow is, "an astoundingly awful way to work"Aug 03 05:03
twitterduh.Aug 03 05:03
twitteras dumb as he's been, the author thinks Wikis are a good way to do things.  Amazing.Aug 03 05:05
twitter->  One day you wake up and everything is on a wiki somewhere. How did that happen? It happens in much the same way as typewriters suddenly disappeared—because a better alternative arrived. Word—and I know I'll be attacked for saying this—is the new typewriter.Aug 03 05:07
twitterha ha ha ha haAug 03 05:07
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twittergood bye, M$ cash cow. 03 05:35
twitterperhaps we can finally put an end to Word attachmentsAug 03 05:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why Free Software is the Better Choice 03 05:40
twitterM$ Death Watch is updated with Ars' simple observation 03 05:41
twitterIf Office is dead, so is Windows and M$ will have no cash cows left.Aug 03 05:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Software Gains Wide Support in European Governments, Funding Too 03 05:45
twitterThis seems appropriate here 03 05:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] opentaps Becomes Free Software (AGPLv3) 03 05:47
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_goblingood morning all.Aug 03 05:47
schestowitz0/Aug 03 05:54
twittergood morning, Roy.Aug 03 05:57
twittersome troll thinks he knows my wife, 03 05:57
twitterlovely people, these M$ Astroturfers are.Aug 03 05:57
twitterAnother nice smear. 03 05:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] An Attack on Fair Use Leads to a Vision 03 05:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The ACTA Conspirators Lies About it Having to do with National Security 03 06:01
_goblinTwitter: Ive had that too.  My wife was exposed on the net recently.....some clever MS faithful found a picture of her: 03 06:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Poised to Lose Another Patent Battle 03 06:04
schestowitz_goblin: yeah, age is showing.Aug 03 06:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another Review of GNU/Ballnux Studio (SUSE) 03 06:06
schestowitzI'm sure she was beautiful when younger  ;-)Aug 03 06:06
_goblin;)Aug 03 06:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Silences Researchers Who Know Windows is Flawed 03 06:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vista 7 Has Early Victims: Another Vista 7-Capable Lawsuit Coming? 03 06:15
twitternice articles, schestowitzAug 03 06:16
schestowitzTaAug 03 06:18
twitterThe real Vista-7 Capable victims will be those who are eligible for a "free" Windows 7 upgrade.  They will learn that Windows 7 is just as broken as Vista.Aug 03 06:20
_goblinTwitter: "Dont worry, it will be better next time..."Aug 03 06:21
schestowitzVista7 will FixEverything(R)Aug 03 06:22
_goblinyep, cures all that ails ya.Aug 03 06:22
schestowitz"WHat X should have been.."Aug 03 06:22
twitter"cone of silence" around flaws, very convenient.Aug 03 06:23
schestowitz2010: Vista 8 is what VIsta 7 should have beenAug 03 06:23
_goblinlol....Aug 03 06:23
_goblinwonder when Ballmers replacement is coming...Aug 03 06:23
twitterNah, they will stick with Vista 7 for at least a year.Aug 03 06:23
_goblinthat long?Aug 03 06:23
twitterthen implode with it.Aug 03 06:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Sued Over the Xbox 360 Fiasco Again (Already Losing Billions in XBox) 03 06:24
twitterI think the Ars article was very damaging for them.Aug 03 06:24
_goblinthen for Vista 8 you will need to run XP mode in Vista 7 in a VM just to get XP compat....Aug 03 06:24
twitterit casts the whole PC work flow as an ancient relic about to be replaced, and it is right.Aug 03 06:24
twitterWikis will crush M$ Word.Aug 03 06:24
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twitterthe most damning part about that article is that it was written by a real M$ Word fan - a 20 year long user.Aug 03 06:26
twitterA M$ defender wrote in my M$ Death Watch Journal, " microsoft is still the vehicle that countless corporations rely on, for everyday computing." Suddenly, with Wikis, no one needs M$.  It's game over.Aug 03 06:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Zune Still a Colossal Failure 03 06:29
twitterZooooooooon.Aug 03 06:29
twittersomething funny about that linkAug 03 06:31
twitter 03 06:31
twitterha ha, investors are clueless -> "Microsoft should abandon Zune and follow Apple's strategy to try to make its presence felt in the high-growth smart-phone sector," Kurian said.Aug 03 06:34
twitterM$'s "smart phones" are also a massive failure because M$'s software blows.Aug 03 06:34
twitterPJ points to Cost of M$ Yahoo buy out. 03 06:40
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twitterI pointed to something similar a day or two ago.Aug 03 06:41
twitterLots of interesting details, Yahoo was really, really robbed.Aug 03 06:41
twitterp0wnt for $300 million or so.Aug 03 06:41
twitterI wonder if that will cover the cost of executive bonuses.Aug 03 06:42
twitterSweaty B still shakes his "IP" at gnu/linux, "Well, along comes Linux, and they say, we have no price, which of course, we know for IP and other reasons, of course they have a price."Aug 03 06:44
twitter 03 06:45
twitterwhat a P.Aug 03 06:45
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schestowitzORLY shown for his stupidity: 03 07:43
schestowitzKeith Olbermann smacks down Bill O'Reilly < >Aug 03 07:45
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schestowitzFormer GP welcomes prosecution for paying towards assisted suicide trip 03 07:50
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schestowitzmi5 lied...  ttp:// 03 07:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 'Enjoy' eating fish... while it lasts 03 07:53
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] REVIEW: GCstar 1.5.0beta1 – Manage your collection! #linux #fossAug 03 08:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Get 400 followers a day using 03 08:15
_goblindamn...what did I do that for.....Aug 03 08:16
oiaohmNo problem with fish supply here schestowitz our water ways are highly regulatered.Aug 03 08:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Looking to get some work done around the house.Aug 03 08:19
amarsh04you haven't seen the murray below lock 1 oiaohm )-:Aug 03 08:19
oiaohmI am in queensland amarsh04Aug 03 08:20
oiaohmOurs water ways did not get screwed up like down there.Aug 03 08:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] .26 of WINE really is a solid release. So many improvements and bug fixes, many previous issues simply now "Just work" #linux #fossAug 03 08:21
amarsh04yes, it seemed like none of the darling's most recent floods (2007?) made it to WentworthAug 03 08:21
oiaohmThings should imAug 03 08:23
oiaohmprove down there.Aug 03 08:23
oiaohmSince cuby station has been shutdown.Aug 03 08:23
oiaohmThat place sucked up a insane ammount of water.Aug 03 08:24
amarsh04need a few cyclones to head south from the gulf of Carpentaria to the Darling basin tooAug 03 08:26
schestowitzoiaohm: fishery is a global thingAug 03 08:27
schestowitzIt's not a matter of local or national problemAug 03 08:27
schestowitzwater is intlAug 03 08:27
schestowitzAnd if AU doesn't fish much, the Chinese fishers will reach further down south. They already travel to corals that they empty.Aug 03 08:28
oiaohmNot for all fish.Aug 03 08:28
oiaohmYes our coast guard is getting more work.Aug 03 08:29
oiaohmNorth of australia already has a boat that is basically a floating prisson.Aug 03 08:29
oiaohmFor people entering to fish illegaly.Aug 03 08:30
oiaohmIts also part of the reason why australia got mixed up in the iraq war was to get hands on drones to monitor the north.Aug 03 08:32
oiaohm  << Interesting application might need to add to other options in the mono applications for gfoto?  Ok the photo management one.Aug 03 08:35
oiaohm  Ok some topics in the open source world take the cake.Aug 03 08:40
schestowitzoiaohm: thanks, I'll addAug 03 08:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Fails with Gadgets and Moves on to Toys 03 08:50
schestowitzAdded kornelix to 03 08:51
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Ubuntu 9.10 successfully installed on the Acer Aspire Revo! If only I had an HDMI cable I could test it on the telly too! :)Aug 03 09:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Electric unicycle! 03 09:42
schestowitzSegway rattemptedAug 03 09:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Sued for Selling Inherently-defective Xbox 360s, Other Bad Xbox News 03 09:44
oiaohmkornelix produces a few apps the photo one is fotoxx schestowitzAug 03 09:44
schestowitzFixedAug 03 09:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] comScore Crawls into Bed with Microsoft 03 10:24
schestowitzInteresting. Microsoft's OOXML henchman Lunds  asked me about the FSF's response to the MCP. I ignored the question, but it does show that Microsoft is concerned about how the FOSS world perceives MCPs. I also heard from someone who showed me evidence that Microsoft is 'spamming' Wikipedia with links to the MCP that it gardens these days.Aug 03 10:26
Diablo-D3 03 10:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Get 400 followers a day using 03 10:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Sees Itself as Above EU Law 03 10:45
schestowitz_goblin: makes Twitter just a jokeAug 03 10:46
_goblindamn....I thought I had removed that....Aug 03 10:46
_goblinstandby...Aug 03 10:47
_goblindone...Aug 03 10:47
_goblinthat will teach me.Aug 03 10:47
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♺ @cenourinha: O terceiro paragrafo fez-me lembrar uma pessoa que alguns de nós conhecemos... LOL 03 11:06
trmanco 03 11:10
trmancoit's been releasedAug 03 11:10
trmanco 03 11:10
trmanco 03 11:12
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Just done a very big purge of my Twitter, don't be offended if I have removed you, you will be added (if youre not one of the MS faithful!)Aug 03 11:36
_goblinabout time I purged my Twitter of all the rubbish....I can monitor the MSfaithful through twitterfall instead of on my profile.Aug 03 11:39
schestowitzAug 03 11:12:01 <trmanco> 03 11:40
schestowitzHow important is this?Aug 03 11:40
MinceRit's netbsd, therefore it's unimportant :>Aug 03 11:41
schestowitzMaybe it's important for toasters.Aug 03 11:42
MinceRlinux runs even on toasters.Aug 03 11:43
schestowitzWhoaAug 03 11:49
schestowitzSo netbsd is toastedAug 03 11:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft’s Attack on GNU/Linux Extends to an Attack on Affordable PCs 03 11:50
_goblinthere done....Aug 03 11:58
_goblinI am now following 48 people....Aug 03 11:59
MinceRi am following 0 peopleAug 03 11:59
_goblinI will do another purge......Aug 03 11:59
_goblinfollowing 0?Aug 03 12:00
MinceRindeedAug 03 12:00
MinceRi'm not on twitter :>Aug 03 12:00
_goblinYoure not hip cool and trendy then......;) !?!?Aug 03 12:01
MinceRi'm a rebel. ;)Aug 03 12:01
_goblincome be a sheep like the rest of us......baaaahAug 03 12:01
MinceRmewAug 03 12:01
MinceR"There will always be consumerism as a form of rebellion against consumerism."Aug 03 12:03
MinceR * MinceR invents rebellion against consumerism as a form of rebellion against consumerism.Aug 03 12:03
MinceR * MinceR consumerizes itAug 03 12:03
_goblinnow down to 45Aug 03 12:04
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @sampablokuperApple attempts silence family with gagging order after the child’s iPod explodes #ApplefailAug 03 12:12
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schestowitzIt turns out that Melco paid after Microsoft SUED THEM. 03 12:22
schestowitzAug 03 12:12:18 -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @sampablokuperApple attempts silence family with gagging order after the child’s iPod explodes #ApplefailAug 03 12:23
schestowitzAnother win for Apple, I guess. Fan boys and gals will bury this fast.Aug 03 12:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Sued Melco Group Over Linux and Microsoft is Likely to Lose Another Patent Case (VirnetX) 03 12:24
_goblinright thats me done.  Going to sign off for a myself down to following 40 off work today so I think I'll get some jobs sorted around the house....... bblAug 03 12:24
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sebsebsebhiAug 03 12:30
schestowitzHowdyAug 03 12:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Apple tried to silence owner of exploding iPod with gagging order < > Fewer people will put their iPod near face...Aug 03 12:31
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft and Apple Gag Truth Tellers, Disregard Risk of Death 03 12:59
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schestowitzSMS and email are killing friendships < > Guess who says that?Aug 03 13:11
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schestowitzGerman boffins create 'flight simulator for flies' < >Aug 03 13:16
Ngschestowitz: I'm guessing it's not the mobile industry? ;)Aug 03 13:16
schestowitzNo, that industry is warning that VoIP lead to terorismAug 03 13:17
schestowitz*rrAug 03 13:17
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schestowitzPP redesigns his site.. 03 13:24
tacone1brrAug 03 13:25
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Omar87Hi guys!Aug 03 13:29
Omar87I became the 6th best karma user! :DAug 03 13:29
schestowitzYeah, I saw....Aug 03 13:31
schestowitzWhere has AxisSomething gone?Aug 03 13:31
schestowitzHe used to submit loads of RMS stuff...Aug 03 13:32
Omar87Hey, Roy. You might wanna see this: 03 13:36
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ThistleWebthey got the intent of the order wrong, that's the new iGrenade that's yet to be unveiledAug 03 13:39
ThistleWebya can't have members of the puplic go spoil the announcementAug 03 13:39
ThistleWebsomehow a prototype went on sale as an iPodAug 03 13:39
ThistleWebthe distributers will soon be "dealt with"Aug 03 13:40
ThistleWebpeaceAug 03 13:40
schestowitzOmar87: 03 13:42
ThistleWebthe iGrenades are planned to be sold to the US military, to throw at insurgents as peace offerings from a civilised world, only to have them explode in the hands, rendering the hands incapable of building bombs, or holding weaponsAug 03 13:42
ThistleWebfor that they have to look identivcal to iPodsAug 03 13:42
ThistleWebI jest of course lolAug 03 13:42
schestowitzThistleWeb: Maybe the Chinese distributors will be suicidedAug 03 13:42
schestowitz 03 13:44
schestowitzOh dearAug 03 13:44
oiaohmYou are reminding me of the old high explosive 303 rounds of world war 2 ThistleWebAug 03 13:44
schestowitz"Exploding iPod backfires on Apple"Aug 03 13:44
schestowitzGreat healdineAug 03 13:44
oiaohmJust spreed them around and wait for the other side to use them.Aug 03 13:44
ThistleWeboiaohm: yepAug 03 13:44
ThistleWebor as the Israeli miltary do with some bomblets, colour them like toys so the kids pick em upAug 03 13:45
oiaohmDecomissioned 1 gun and 1 solider.Aug 03 13:45
schestowitzClustering themAug 03 13:45
oiaohmI still have my grandfathers 303 shell knife.Aug 03 13:46
ThistleWebafter all, who'd pick up something which LOOKS like a bombAug 03 13:46
Omar87ThistleWeb: one of the dirtiest traps performed by the Israeli military against innocent Palestinian kids.Aug 03 13:46
ThistleWeban iPod on the other handAug 03 13:47
schestowitzThistleWeb: "In January 1996, Israel's internal security Relevant Products/Services service, or Shabak, allegedly used an exploding cell phone to assassinate Palestinian suicide bomb mastermind Yahya Ayyash, known as "The Engineer." Ayash was believed to have been responsible for at least 130 deaths in a series of suicide bombings in Israel."Aug 03 13:47
schestowitz 03 13:47
schestowitzMaybe they can stock more iPodAug 03 13:47
oiaohmThere is one problem with providing devices that will explode.Aug 03 13:47
schestowitzRobert Gates has ordered a shipment of iPods shortly after the news about apple ;-)Aug 03 13:47
ThistleWeblolAug 03 13:47
oiaohmIf they can becontroled you are handing the other side premade detorators.Aug 03 13:48
ThistleWeboiaohm: the weapon is not the explosiveAug 03 13:48
Omar87schestowitz: So what about the link you sent me?Aug 03 13:48
ThistleWebit's the knowledge that it is an explosiveAug 03 13:48
ThistleWebif the recipent dont knowAug 03 13:48
ThistleWebif they do, they can use itAug 03 13:49
schestowitzThe girl didn't knowAug 03 13:49
ThistleWebor not fall into itAug 03 13:49
schestowitzThey bought it as a giftAug 03 13:49
schestowitz 03 13:49
schestowitz Apple accused of lowering cone of silence over iPod flame outAug 03 13:49
ThistleWebjoking aside, I doubt Apple intended to make an iGrenadeAug 03 13:49
oiaohmI really do prefer the Australian system to replace mine fields.Aug 03 13:49
schestowitzThis a repeat offense from AppleAug 03 13:49
schestowitzTurns out it's like XBoxAug 03 13:50
schestowitzOmar87: I sent you a link to show that I wrote about it an hour agoAug 03 13:50
ThistleWebor if they did, not sell it to the public under the label of an "entertainment device"Aug 03 13:50
schestowitzIt's not just an Apple problem, Microsoft does this alsoAug 03 13:50
oiaohmlithium ion battery have some major issues.Aug 03 13:51
schestowitzI guess the 'i' brand will suffer a lot from this, but cellphones are the sameAug 03 13:51
schestowitzIt's a batter issue, not an Apple issueAug 03 13:51
oiaohmThey are extrealy close to being pure explosive.Aug 03 13:51
schestowitzMicrosoft will play it off against AppleAug 03 13:51
oiaohmThe problem with high power density.Aug 03 13:51
Omar87ThistleWeb: However, the tactic of hiding explosives by making them look like a toy is no longer needed. They have already massacred about 1500 innocent people (most of which are kid and women) from the sky, using the world most prohibited weapon systems in Gaza about 6 months ago, remember?Aug 03 13:52
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Omar87the world's* most prohibited..Aug 03 13:53
ThistleWebI know the Israelis have used ( and I guess continue to use) cluster bombs in civilian areas, despite it being a clear war crimeAug 03 13:53
ThistleWebmany of the bomblets dont go off, and stay in the ruble for the suvivors to tripAug 03 13:53
ThistleWebcoloured to attrach the eye of kidsAug 03 13:54
Omar87And white phosphorus bombs too.Aug 03 13:54
ThistleWebapparently cluster bombs are legal under international law, but only to be used on purely military targetsAug 03 13:54
Omar87They've also used some uranium as well, despite it being completely prohibited.Aug 03 13:55
ThistleWebthe Israelis feel immune to international laws, as they feel victimised by itAug 03 13:55
ThistleWeband as long as the US veto any move against them by default, they will continue to act above the lawAug 03 13:55
schestowitzIntroducing Winesharer - so pre-alpha it doesn't even work 03 13:56
schestowitzoiaohm: see this: 03 13:56
schestowitzAbout uniformity that you speak aboutAug 03 13:57
oiaohmSo far the Israels don't have ADWS systems.Aug 03 13:57
Omar87ThistleWeb: Yeah. Despite all the loud and clear international collusion with them, somehow they still feel victimized by the international law.Aug 03 13:57
oiaohmADWS are far more annoying than normal mine fields.Aug 03 13:57
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ThistleWebwe could do with trimming some distros thoughAug 03 13:57
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schestowitzOmar87: same with the USAug 03 13:57
ThistleWebsome of the more obscure respinsAug 03 13:57
oiaohmIe approved can walk across a area unharmed anyone not aproved is dead.Aug 03 13:58
schestowitz"Too many “versions” of GNU/Linux? No. Too little education about GNU/Linux? Definitely."Aug 03 13:58
EruaranhelloAug 03 13:58
ThistleWebvariety is good, specially when many specialise to fill a particular nicheAug 03 13:58
ThistleWebbut too much variety, or no easy way of catagorising them to narrow them downAug 03 13:59
ThistleWebplenty of distros are not helping by being too vague in their intended useAug 03 13:59
ThistleWebhey EruaranAug 03 13:59
oiaohmReally there are not too many versions.Aug 03 13:59
oiaohmIssue is simpler.Aug 03 13:59
oiaohmFix the dynamic loader to allow mixed versions of .so files and most could be merged.Aug 03 14:00
Omar87ThistleWeb: Take the murder of Rachel Corrie for example. The Israeli bulldozer buried her right where she was standing. Yet the American government left their hands of her and never tried to even look into her case. Just because she was saying "NO" to the Israeli insolence.Aug 03 14:00
schestowitzThistleWeb: it's a natural thing in developmentAug 03 14:00
ThistleWebOmar87: the Israelis have long been a law unto themselvesAug 03 14:01
schestowitzYou otherwise prevent choice from programmersAug 03 14:01
Omar87ThistleWeb: Exactly.Aug 03 14:01
ThistleWebalso if you narrow your niche too much you deter potential new users and devsAug 03 14:01
oiaohmIsraelis with ADWS systems could be scary.Aug 03 14:01
ThistleWebso your distro never takes offAug 03 14:01
schestowitz (CentOS is dead, long live CentOS)Aug 03 14:02
oiaohmAt kernel level there is not much difference between distributions.Aug 03 14:02
EruaranI'm going to make my own distro and call it Green ChilliAug 03 14:02
ThistleWebsomeone should do a "second coming" blog about centosAug 03 14:02
schestowitzBranching mostlyAug 03 14:02
Omar87oiaohm: Arkansas Department of Workforce Services? What does it have to do with the Israelis?Aug 03 14:03
oiaohmAbove kernel level the issue that causes the most divide is in ld.soAug 03 14:03
ThistleWebI have too much contempt for religious lunacy to do itAug 03 14:03
Omar87ThistleWeb: To do what?Aug 03 14:03
oiaohm  << These puppies Omar87Aug 03 14:04
ThistleWeba blog post about the "second coming of CentOS" ala "the second coming of the original hippy known as Jesus"Aug 03 14:04
ThistleWebkilled by the romans / MS PR mischiefAug 03 14:04
ThistleWebonly to rise from the dead and gain new followersAug 03 14:05
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EruaranM$ is looking weaker by the day now... all they seem to be able to really do is pump up the hype on Vista 7... and even that seems somewhat mutedAug 03 14:06
oiaohmUnix system was purely designed to only have 1 version of a .so file installed.Aug 03 14:06
ThistleWebwhen you have to cut costs in your shill budget, you have less members of the choir singingAug 03 14:07
ThistleWebthey only sing when they get paid toAug 03 14:07
oiaohmEruaran: break trust of media has caused them a never ending problem.Aug 03 14:07
ThistleWebthat's one thing MS will never be able to match FOSS on. The people singing from the FOSS hymn sheet actually WANT to do it, they will do it for free because they believe int he causeAug 03 14:08
ThistleWebMS have to pay people to sing from theirsAug 03 14:08
ThistleWeband pay the fees of "professional" outfits, to appear official, and drown out the competing hymn sung by REAL windows usersAug 03 14:09
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cjThistleWeb: but... what if MS is part of the F/OSS community?Aug 03 14:11
ThistleWebthey are?Aug 03 14:12
ThistleWebnews to meAug 03 14:12
EruaranLike a cancer is part of your body...Aug 03 14:12
cjThistleWeb: you must be new to F/OSS?Aug 03 14:12
ThistleWebother than playing the part of the killer in waiting, trying, but not quite able to kill itAug 03 14:12
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ThistleWebtaking some slices off, but never quite able to deal the death blowAug 03 14:13
oiaohmOk nice splitAug 03 14:13
cjThistleWeb: I learned how to use grub & xen from ms contractors... they've contributed a lot to those projects, you knowAug 03 14:13
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ThistleWeblolAug 03 14:13
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cjhow 'bout SASL?  do you use that?Aug 03 14:14
cjKerberos?  LDAP?Aug 03 14:15
oiaohmgrub when cjAug 03 14:15
ThistleWebare you really trying to tell us MS is part of the FOSS community?Aug 03 14:15
ThistleWebor is that just humour that don't come through in IRCAug 03 14:15
cjThistleWeb: more than schestowitz, that's for certain.Aug 03 14:15
schestowitzWhat is MongoDB? 03 14:15
cjThistleWeb: yes.  MS has contributed more to F/OSS than #boycottnovellAug 03 14:15
ThistleWeblmaoAug 03 14:15
ThistleWebmutex?Aug 03 14:15
ThistleWebmethinksAug 03 14:16
cjThistleWeb: #boycottnovell and F/OSS?  I agree.Aug 03 14:16
ThistleWebFOSS needs MS like they need a hole in the headAug 03 14:16
ThistleWebwe'll get on much better when MS is bankruptAug 03 14:17
oiaohmSorry I have not seen a single code submit to grub from MS staff.Aug 03 14:17
oiaohmKerberos MS altered theres to be incompadible.Aug 03 14:17
oiaohmLDAP MS ADS does not obey LDAP protocal correctly for its LDAP parts.Aug 03 14:17
oiaohmWhen it comes to working with standards MS is basically a pain in but.Aug 03 14:17
schestowitzMore "TCO" nonsense from IDG: 03 14:18
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ThistleWebMS does stick to standards, they just have a different definition of the word. Their "standards" are stuff they do, that they own and can change to keep competition out.Aug 03 14:19
oiaohmIf MS could follow standard documentation correctly they would not be as big as problem to Foss cjAug 03 14:20
schestowitzoiaohm: something's maybe up with freenode. Not sure if it's just me dropping off cause you did tooAug 03 14:20
schestowitzMicrosoft has low standardsAug 03 14:20
schestowitzOr noneAug 03 14:20
schestowitzAnd it sued FOSSAug 03 14:20
schestowitzIt sued TomTomAug 03 14:20
schestowitzIt sued MelcoAug 03 14:20
schestowitzIt's threatening to sue other companies for FOSSAug 03 14:20
schestowitzIt's a dying companyAug 03 14:20
schestowitzLike SCO, it's suing as it's las hurrah\Aug 03 14:20
schestowitz*lastAug 03 14:20
schestowitzWHen people find this out, they then look awayAug 03 14:20
schestowitzLook how SCO lost its customersAug 03 14:20
schestowitzWhat was left of themAug 03 14:20
oiaohmcj boycottnovell has done useful things for open source world.   Someone has to archive history.Aug 03 14:21
cjThistleWeb: F/OSS needs hatemongering from #boycottnovell less than it needs MS's help ;)Aug 03 14:21
schestowitzBluehost CEO: Steve Ballmer is a Jackass! < >Aug 03 14:21
cjoiaohm: do you deny that MS has done useful things for the open source world?Aug 03 14:21
schestowitzHe boycotted Microsoft after they attacked FOSSAug 03 14:21
schestowitzoiaohm: cj speaks?Aug 03 14:21
oiaohmMS has done lot more harm than good cjAug 03 14:21
cjoiaohm: I'm no MS fanboi, mind you, but I can't deny that Linux is better for their supportAug 03 14:21
schestowitzIt's a former contractor of MicrosoftAug 03 14:21
sebsebseboiaohm: indeedAug 03 14:21
cjoiaohm: that may be true.Aug 03 14:21
schestowitzHe should not even be hereAug 03 14:21
cjthose who disagree with schestowitz should not be here ;)Aug 03 14:22
oiaohmNot really.Aug 03 14:22
cjI'd agree that hatemongers shouldn't be on freenode, but what do I know?Aug 03 14:22
ThistleWebno, those who live in a fantasy land need not be hereAug 03 14:22
cjThistleWeb: heh, the channel would be emptyAug 03 14:22
sebsebsebThistleWeb: hehAug 03 14:22
schestowitzOr those posing for MicrosoftAug 03 14:22
oiaohmI don't like Linux or Mac or Windows completely.Aug 03 14:22
oiaohmAll of them I pick faults in cjAug 03 14:22
cjoiaohm: amen ;)Aug 03 14:22
oiaohmI don't have a particular bias.Aug 03 14:23
sebsebsebyep no OS is 100% perfectAug 03 14:23
oiaohmI don't try to make MS look good.Aug 03 14:23
cjoiaohm: I have a bias for linux, I gotta' admitAug 03 14:23
schestowitzThis is what ruins places of discussion... when people who used to represent or represent a company go to forums about it to quiet dissentAug 03 14:23
ThistleWebI love MS personally, when I want the fun of a virus scan there's no better platform than windowsAug 03 14:23
cjsomeone ask schestowitz if I am attempting to quiet dissentAug 03 14:23
schestowitzLike having shills of the US military (yes, they got caught) infilitrating forums criticial of the militaryAug 03 14:23
oiaohmBoycott novell does good at times by appling presure where it should be.Aug 03 14:23
oiaohmLike the mono patents.Aug 03 14:23
cjoiaohm: indeed.  no contest to that.  however, there is a lot of hatemongering that need not happen.Aug 03 14:24
ThistleWebBN is one of the few sites willing to expose what the regular media wontAug 03 14:24
oiaohmOpen source needs light and dark.Aug 03 14:24
schestowitzInformation is informationAug 03 14:24
cjoiaohm: if bn was serious about the mono patents, I think they would get involved with the SFLCAug 03 14:24
ThistleWebcomplete with links to sourcesAug 03 14:24
schestowitzIf some idiots like "fink" act like idiots, it's their faultAug 03 14:24
schestowitzAnd if the information is not accurate, there is room for commentAug 03 14:25
oiaohmcj SFLC was also having problems getting information on mono patent status.Aug 03 14:25
oiaohmWhen boycott novell started appling presure.Aug 03 14:25
cjheh, if some idiots write signed email to "fink" telling them that they like their style but that it should be separated from the site to give it the impression of being unbiased, it's their fault, tooAug 03 14:25
schestowitzI don't silence dissent, but if shill /overwhelms/ on topic discussion, it qualifies as trollingAug 03 14:25
oiaohmLot of us had checked with SFLC before appling presure over it.Aug 03 14:25
cjalright.  but speaking of SFLC, let's see if we can get something moving.Aug 03 14:26
schestowitzbrbAug 03 14:26
cjanyone want to be CC'd on the next email I send to the SFLC leadership?Aug 03 14:26
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ThistleWebcj thanks for the offer but I'd rather not be associated with a looney tyvmAug 03 14:27
EruaranM$ is the next SCOAug 03 14:28
oiaohmThat is what we were doing with boycott novell.Aug 03 14:28
oiaohmSFLC had hit a brick wall over mono patents.Aug 03 14:28
oiaohmEven the lead developer of mono was hitting brick walls but was not publically telling people.Aug 03 14:28
oiaohmThere are jobs for a site like boycott novel to take up.Aug 03 14:28
oiaohmSFLC has there job as well cjAug 03 14:28
oiaohmSFLC job is to provide legal advice what they do very well.Aug 03 14:28
EruaranI can't see Windows lasting the next 10 years (and thats being generous)Aug 03 14:28
oiaohmThere job is not to get mixed up in there dirty business of PR.Aug 03 14:28
ThistleWebfreenode is acting very odd today it seemsAug 03 14:28
EruaranIt will become a marginalized legacy OSAug 03 14:29
ThistleWeb2009 is the beginning of the end for MSAug 03 14:29
*schestowitz backAug 03 14:29
schestowitzfreenode is laggy today :-(Aug 03 14:29
oiaohmBasically boycott novel is paying in the dirty game of PR.Aug 03 14:29
ThistleWebit has a long way to fall, but fall it willAug 03 14:29
schestowitzThistleWeb: no, 2008Aug 03 14:29
schestowitzIn terms of finances at leastAug 03 14:29
schestowitz2007 brought the Vista disaster and then Ribbon MessAug 03 14:30
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oiaohmcj its ying and yang.   A world fully filled with light has trouble seeing darkness.Aug 03 14:30
ThistleWebwith a few glitches of hope for a short period, or a lil blip in profits.....then back to it's downward fallAug 03 14:30
schestowitzTwo cash cows down for thew countAug 03 14:30
oiaohmAnd a world fully filled with darkness has trouble seeing light.Aug 03 14:30
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitzAug 03 14:30
ThistleWebpity for MS that the recession coincided with their vista release and desperation to have it do wellAug 03 14:31
oiaohmOpen Source world need balance.Aug 03 14:31
EruaranI think Ballmer thinks its still 1999Aug 03 14:31
schestowitz (OpenLogic Expands OpenLogic Exchange Enterprise Edition to Help Customers Identify Cost Savings From Using Open Source Software ) <---- can't cite them anymore because they are influenced partly by MicrosoftAug 03 14:31
oiaohmThat is the problem with lot of haters of boycott novell.Aug 03 14:31
ThistleWebEruaran: he has Prince stuck in the CD player in his carAug 03 14:32
oiaohmThey don't see the need of blance.Aug 03 14:32
EruaranThistleWeb, Whats wrong with Prince ? ;)Aug 03 14:32
schestowitzMAFIAA storiesAug 03 14:32
schestowitzIn 2007 he did OKAug 03 14:32
oiaohmRecession is helping Linux.Aug 03 14:32
ThistleWebnothing, he's just taken it as NLP and is "partying like it's 1999"Aug 03 14:32
schestowitzHe wanted to give a CD with The TimesAug 03 14:32
oiaohmIts making people think about how they are spending money.Aug 03 14:32
EruaranYou think Ballmer will last another 12 months as CEO ?Aug 03 14:33
EruaranIf M$ continues to slide as they have done, and Vista 7 doesn't give them a shot of adrenaline, M$ will officially go into debt within 12 months.Aug 03 14:33
ThistleWeb"the more you tighten your grasp, the more star systems will slip through your fingers" - Princess LeiaAug 03 14:33
ThistleWeb^^seems like advice many corps could listen to when thinking about locking stuff down further and screwing their customersAug 03 14:34
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ThistleWebBallmer is in an unusual position of being one of the originalsAug 03 14:34
oiaohmLonger it lastest the better it is for Linux.Aug 03 14:34
ThistleWebhe will be hard to unseatAug 03 14:35
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twittercould be.  Then again, people might just be understanding freedom better from watching things like Kindle, Tivo, iPhone, etc. -> oiaohm: Recession is helping Linux.Aug 03 14:35
conleyschestowitz: I'm curious, how do you find time to blog so much?Aug 03 14:35
Eruaranhe has a cloneAug 03 14:35
conleyschestowitz: I'm curious, how do you find time to blog so much?Aug 03 14:35
ThistleWebEruaran: still on the SW theme?Aug 03 14:35
ThistleWebconley: you here to ask or harass?Aug 03 14:36
ThistleWebrepeating your comment so quickly, comes across as agressiveAug 03 14:36
oiaohmtwitter businesses before the resession where not thinking about software costs that much.Aug 03 14:36
ThistleWeblike you're here with a missionAug 03 14:36
oiaohmSoftware cost was something you would just write off twitterAug 03 14:36
oiaohmThe downturn has altered that game.Aug 03 14:37
oiaohmNow software cost could be the difference between a company living or dieing.Aug 03 14:37
ThistleWebspecially sice the only two comments you've made are 1 comment repeatedAug 03 14:37
schestowitzconley: I do them in busts of 3 hoursAug 03 14:38
schestowitz*burstsAug 03 14:38
oiaohmPeople learning about freedom is important but that has not been a major changing factor yet twitter.Aug 03 14:38
oiaohmHopefully in the next 2 years the effects of the no DRM compaines and examples of where it bad will strenth that.Aug 03 14:38
oiaohmWill start having a large effect.Aug 03 14:39
twitteralways putting words into my mouth.   -> oiaohm: Software cost was something you would just write off twitterAug 03 14:39
twitterhe wonders why I don't trust him and ignore him.Aug 03 14:40
twitterhmph.Aug 03 14:40
schestowitztwitter: you're being foolish re oiaohmAug 03 14:40
schestowitzHe's just more openly critical, but he's on your teamAug 03 14:40
schestowitzThe one who was a critical troll was daemonFCAug 03 14:41
oiaohmNo twitter not words in mouth.Aug 03 14:41
ThistleWebtwitter ignores everyone in the endAug 03 14:41
oiaohmThat is what a lot of business said to me before the resession.Aug 03 14:41
ThistleWebit's almost like a badge of honourAug 03 14:41
oiaohmSoftware was just a cost to write off.Aug 03 14:41
schestowitzWhat's the status on Cox?Aug 03 14:41
oiaohmI have a bad habit of missing full stops.  twitter.Aug 03 14:42
schestowitzoiaohm is sloppy like me on ircAug 03 14:42
schestowitzSo I don't feel like the only fool (full of typos)Aug 03 14:42
twitterHe is sloppy in his thinking and projects it onto others.Aug 03 14:42
ThistleWebirc is real time chat, like PMsAug 03 14:42
ThistleWebas long as you can communicate that's all that mattersAug 03 14:43
twitteralso diddles with technical details that don't matter.Aug 03 14:43
twitterusually to spin things in favor of non free software.Aug 03 14:43
ThistleWebit's different when you write stuff you plan out. Then you're expected to do read throughs, spell checks etcAug 03 14:43
schestowitzIf you're not fast in IRC, then the sequences of conversation gets br0kenAug 03 14:43
twitterX has problems, GCC has problems, blah.Aug 03 14:43
schestowitz*sequenceAug 03 14:43
conleyThistleWeb: Forgive me, schestowitz walked in right after I asked the first time.Aug 03 14:44
schestowitztwitter: they doAug 03 14:44
schestowitzAll software doesAug 03 14:44
cjThistleWeb: which looney, RMS?Aug 03 14:44
schestowitzJust being libre doesn't make something technically impeccableAug 03 14:44
twitterNot when you are talking about freedom.Aug 03 14:44
schestowitzDepends ont he venueAug 03 14:45
twitterno, but being non free makes it a pain, always.Aug 03 14:45
schestowitzThere are sites dedicated to bugsAug 03 14:45
schestowitzThen there's news.Aug 03 14:45
cjoiaohm: SFLC is interested in petitioning the US lawmakers to fix or remove US patentsAug 03 14:45
schestowitzLinux has no marketingAug 03 14:45
twitterthat's good, this is not one of them.Aug 03 14:45
schestowitzSome people advocate itAug 03 14:45
cjhmm?  what about the penguin?  is that not marketing?Aug 03 14:45
oiaohmNo marketing is not correct.Aug 03 14:45
schestowitzoiaohm: I think it isAug 03 14:46
oiaohmLinux foundation does have a marketing arm.Aug 03 14:46
schestowitzLinux per se has no marketingAug 03 14:46
schestowitzOhAug 03 14:46
oiaohmJust not that effective.Aug 03 14:46
schestowitzWell, LF...Aug 03 14:46
cjThistleWeb: to be clear, I do not think RMS is a looney.  I consider him a friend, for the record.Aug 03 14:46
schestowitzI don't fancy their use of shills like IDC...Aug 03 14:46
schestowitzBut I guess that's a fair point, they do marketing now.Aug 03 14:46
schestowitzThey do it like the unethical companies do itAug 03 14:46
ThistleWebcj I was talking about youAug 03 14:46
schestowitzI'd rather view the FSF as the centre, not LFAug 03 14:46
ThistleWebbut I guess you didn't spot thatAug 03 14:46
cjThistleWeb: ah, right.  thanks for clearing that up.Aug 03 14:46
oiaohmSFLC petition we will support.Aug 03 14:47
schestowitzLF is correspondent to just a portion of the Free OSesAug 03 14:47
ThistleWebor wanted to continue to disrupt this channelAug 03 14:47
cjThistleWeb: no, I thought personal attacks was grounds for kicking, so I figured you weren't doing that.Aug 03 14:47
twitterIt's funny how people find software freedom.Aug 03 14:47
cjThistleWeb: but perhaps that's only when one is perceived to aim such attacks at schestowitz.Aug 03 14:47
twitterSometimes it is for cost savings.Aug 03 14:47
ThistleWebI was declining the offer to be associated with a looneyAug 03 14:47
twitterSometimes it's for function and features.Aug 03 14:47
twitterSometimes it's for performance.Aug 03 14:48
schestowitzThistleWeb: "we come in peace" [alien crosses fingers]Aug 03 14:48
twitterOccasionally, it's because people want software that's just right.Aug 03 14:48
ThistleWeblolAug 03 14:48
oiaohmPart of open source development is openly asking for things to be fixed as well.Aug 03 14:49
ThistleWeblike asking for mono to be neutered?Aug 03 14:49
oiaohmSometimes is the open source project responce.Aug 03 14:49
ThistleWebor is this a different "fixed"?Aug 03 14:49
twitterAs I've said before, Ohm, the place for that is elsewhere.Aug 03 14:50
oiaohmBug repairs ThistleWebAug 03 14:50
ThistleWeboiaohm: I know lolAug 03 14:50
twitterWhat's interesting is that the reason people come to free software does not matter so much.  They always come to understand the benefits in time.Aug 03 14:51
oiaohmI track things twitter.   I use them to forcast how the next 1 years to 5 years play out.Aug 03 14:51
ThistleWebI used to use yahoo chat years ago, where they had smileys to help convey fun.....I'll really need to learn more text smileysAug 03 14:51
ThistleWeb:/Aug 03 14:51
oiaohmPart of working that out require seeing the bugs.   Some bugs are more key than others.Aug 03 14:51
twitterI see you as a non free spinner, Ohm.Aug 03 14:52
twitteralways a distraction, never terribly useful.Aug 03 14:52
oiaohmYou don't follow the art of war twitter.Aug 03 14:53
ThistleWebtwitter don't follow very much, before deciding it's a troll and ignrores itAug 03 14:53
oiaohmTo work out how the next year will play out you need to understand the strenths and weaknesses on both sides twitter.Aug 03 14:54
oiaohmThe video card issues are being major distrubitions to uptake.Aug 03 14:55
oiaohmSo far I have not seen a single killer feature in Windows 7.Aug 03 14:56
ThistleWebthere's xp mode in some versions, which makes it better than vista, but not a selling point over xpAug 03 14:56
ThistleWebmost of their market are xp holdoutsAug 03 14:57
oiaohmOnly reason why Windows 7 is going to get any market is simply lack of the other sides having there act fully toeghter.Aug 03 14:57
ThistleWebmost of whom will need new hardware to run windows 7Aug 03 14:57
schestowitz Another new one...Aug 03 14:57
schestowitzoiaohm: there are no killer featuresAug 03 14:58
schestowitzis there a list of selling points for Vista 7?Aug 03 14:58
ThistleWebhence the "just buy a new PC every 5 years" angle, which will come with windows 7Aug 03 14:58
ThistleWeband MS will use to say "hey look, customers want windows 7"Aug 03 14:58
schestowitzI've yet to see something significant other than hype from Windows enthusiasts who downloaded itAug 03 14:58
oiaohmkiller features/selling points basically the same thing.Aug 03 14:58
twitterhere's what I came to see.  -> schestowitz: 2007 brought the Vista disaster and then Ribbon Mess, Two cash cows down for thew countAug 03 14:58
twitterIt will be interesting to see how bad Vista 7 and M$ Office results will be over the next year.Aug 03 14:59
schestowitz> ThistleWeb> hence the "just buy a new PC every 5 years"Aug 03 14:59
schestowitzNot anymoreAug 03 14:59
schestowitzThose businesses that are not out of the streets start counting expensesAug 03 14:59
oiaohmLinux does have a few killer features.  But they are being off set by the negivitives at this stage.Aug 03 15:00
schestowitzAnd they don't need a new PC for GNU/Linux migrationsAug 03 15:00
schestowitzMacs for business are rare, esp. outside the 'world' (US)Aug 03 15:00
oiaohmOver the next year hopefully Linux killer features will out weight the negivites blocking people.Aug 03 15:00
oiaohmFast start up is going to be a popular one.Aug 03 15:00
ThistleWebMacs are only found in pro editing buinesses like magazines, ad agencies etcAug 03 15:00
schestowitzoiaohm: familiarity is not an 9inherent negativeAug 03 15:01
ThistleWebneither window or linux will dent their end users machine shareAug 03 15:01
schestowitzWhen people say "Linux sucks" cause CTRL+ALT+DEL brings no "task manager", that's no flaw in LinuxAug 03 15:01
schestowitzI've seen it, trust meAug 03 15:01
ThistleWebthey have every chance as backends, but not end user workstationsAug 03 15:01
oiaohmThat is part graphical stack schestowitz.Aug 03 15:02
schestowitzxAug 03 15:02
schestowitzctrl+alt+bs no longer wordsAug 03 15:02
oiaohmCurrent graphical drivers you could not really map CTRL+ALT+DEL to work like windows.Aug 03 15:02
schestowitz*WorksAug 03 15:02
schestowitzliAug 03 15:02
oiaohmctrl-alt-bs was removed from X11 for good reason.Aug 03 15:02
schestowitzoiaohm: good luck with consistency b/w updates/clean installsAug 03 15:03
oiaohmAssigning to SAK using loadkeys in kernel.Aug 03 15:03
schestowitzunless you merge it upstreamAug 03 15:03
oiaohmIs way more dependable.Aug 03 15:03
schestowitzOR.......Aug 03 15:03
schestowitz:-)Aug 03 15:03
schestowitzJust teach new shortcutsAug 03 15:03
schestowitzTake user and show him/herAug 03 15:03
schestowitz"see?? CTRL+ALT+ESC"Aug 03 15:03
oiaohmBasically X11 removed ctrl-alt-bs because it was duplicating a kernel feature.Aug 03 15:03
oiaohmFound in Freebsd solarias and Linux.Aug 03 15:03
schestowitzoiaohm: I remember Matt Hartley hitting it by accident and killing XAug 03 15:04
oiaohmDistributions are really gulity over ctrl-alt-backspace not keeping on working.Aug 03 15:04
ThistleWebso what does ctrl+alt+esc do ?Aug 03 15:04
schestowitzIt's too imediate, no promptAug 03 15:04
ThistleWebI dont wanna do it while in chatAug 03 15:04
schestowitz*immeAug 03 15:04
ThistleWebreboot?Aug 03 15:04
schestowitzThistleWeb: in KDEAug 03 15:04
schestowitzKsysguardAug 03 15:04
ThistleWebkAug 03 15:04
ThistleWebI have done some combo of the 3 finger salute before and it rebooted on meAug 03 15:05
ThistleWebcant remember which oneAug 03 15:05
schestowitzKDE after verson 3.1 has a smart thing..Aug 03 15:05
schestowitzAfter freezes it recommends killing processesAug 03 15:05
ThistleWebunfortunatley I had open documents at the timeAug 03 15:05
schestowitzSo Joe and Jane need to know nothing about CTRL+ALT+anythingAug 03 15:05
ThistleWebhence I'm wary lolAug 03 15:05
schestowitzGNOME had that in older versionsAug 03 15:05
schestowitz2.12... Ubuntu 4.10 had itAug 03 15:06
schestowitzCant' recall which GNOME.. early 2Aug 03 15:06
ThistleWebI didn't expect it to do that, or at least give me a warning about open documentsAug 03 15:06
twitterHmm, nice articles this morning, Roy.Aug 03 15:06
schestowitzKDE gives warning when shutting downAug 03 15:06
schestowitzDoes WIndows have an option to restore sessions at all?Aug 03 15:06
schestowitzAny PowerTOys for that:?Aug 03 15:06
ThistleWebdont think soAug 03 15:06
ThistleWebyou can do a system restoreAug 03 15:07
schestowitztwitter: thanksAug 03 15:07
ThistleWebbut thats a different thingAug 03 15:07
oiaohmschestowitz: SAK in kernel for security reasons does not prompt either.Aug 03 15:07
ThistleWeband reliant on MS's system restore app which is up to MS's usual qualityAug 03 15:07
schestowitzkernel level won't obey App levelAug 03 15:07
oiaohmschestowitz: recommend SAK key combination is Ctrl+alt+pause lot harder to hit by mistake.Aug 03 15:08
schestowitzMight work the opposite way thoughAug 03 15:08
schestowitzLinux doesn't know about app state in some DEAug 03 15:08
schestowitzIt just runs processesAug 03 15:08
schestowitzoiaohm: not sure all keyboards already have that keyAug 03 15:08
oiaohmSAK is assignable by loadkeysAug 03 15:09
oiaohmSAK is kernel level that kills everything connect to the current terminal.Aug 03 15:09
schestowitzMight Zend be bought by IBM? 03 15:09
schestowitzoiaohm: IBM bought SPSS IIRCAug 03 15:09
oiaohmIncluding X11 when it locked solid and will not answer cntrl-alt-backspace.Aug 03 15:10
schestowitzThey are in a shopping spree sweeping up companies that sufferAug 03 15:10
oiaohmDuplication sneeked in.Aug 03 15:10
schestowitzWhy did mdz make noise about this? 03 15:11
ThistleWebschestowitz: thats a risky game that could go either way, you buy stuff cheap that wil take off later (you hope) or buy stuff that was on the brink of failure anyway and the current climate has only brought to pass, and waste your investmentAug 03 15:11
schestowitzThey should rename IBM "Big Red"Aug 03 15:11
schestowitzit's like computing communismAug 03 15:11
schestowitzBut they have other titans like Oracle, stillAug 03 15:11
ThistleWebI guess it's like a numbers game, buy enough, and those who win will outnumber those who lose in overall profitsAug 03 15:13
schestowitz 03 15:14
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schestowitz_goblin: nice post thereAug 03 15:16
schestowitzDRM is not needed though. Look at watermarkingAug 03 15:16
oiaohmHmm SPSS is also in the earth quake prediction game as well schestowitz.Aug 03 15:16
oiaohmWonder if IBM might try getting into the huge wave predicting business.Aug 03 15:17
schestowitzDRM is foolish because it will work as much as ISP bans and stuff. People will just unload stuff via storage devices like DRM will be stripped. Since tapes people have attempted to stop spreading with limited success and now they try with digital books (DRM) to control how libraries workAug 03 15:17
schestowitzoiaohm: spss is many thingsAug 03 15:18
schestowitzWas the value disclosed. iirc, over a billionAug 03 15:18
oiaohmHow much do you think knowing when a earth quake is coming is to a large data center is worth.Aug 03 15:19
ThistleWebknwoing to back up ASAPAug 03 15:19
ThistleWeband to whereAug 03 15:19
oiaohmWorth a lot more than what IBM paid for SPSS.Aug 03 15:20
oiaohmIts also knowing what drives to park too ThistleWebAug 03 15:20
ThistleWebalthough, a data center should have a backup program with multiple layers of failsafes already built into the DNAAug 03 15:20
oiaohmIf you can take stuff off line planed you have lot less risk of issue.Aug 03 15:21
oiaohmCompared to unplanned.Aug 03 15:21
ThistleWebI'd question the suitability of a data center admin if they didn't have all that already in actionAug 03 15:21
schestowitzoiaohm: wasn't a lot of data lost permanently in 9/11?Aug 03 15:21
schestowitzAs I remember it, a lot was lost. Separation to cities helpsAug 03 15:21
schestowitzBN server is located where earthquakes are not rareAug 03 15:22
oiaohmLot of companies went out of business in 9/11 due to data loss.   Others went out of business due to not being able to aford MS software and others because key staff were dead.Aug 03 15:22
oiaohmMix bag of problems.Aug 03 15:23
oiaohm9/11 created a lot of good case studies.Aug 03 15:23
schestowitzWell, that's ambiguousAug 03 15:23
ThistleWebhow not to land a planeAug 03 15:24
schestowitzYou can interpret this in SO many waysAug 03 15:24
oiaohmLot of  case studies from 9/11 I use to explain the need for using like ODF formats for long term storage.Aug 03 15:24
schestowitzThat's differentAug 03 15:24
schestowitzODF is not for replicatiomnAug 03 15:24
schestowitzit's for curationAug 03 15:24
oiaohmCompanies that were using good formats for long term storage lived threw 9/11 better.Aug 03 15:24
schestowitzDurabilityAug 03 15:24
oiaohmReason did not need to buy programs to access there data.Aug 03 15:25
oiaohmNo point just replicating your data if you don't have the software to access it.Aug 03 15:25
schestowitzODF might be moe important if after a flood your records turn out to be 10y-y-oAug 03 15:25
oiaohmSome companies died because of that in 9/11Aug 03 15:25
oiaohmYes they had replicated the data right.Aug 03 15:25
ThistleWeb2001 was a different era to today in terms of usability of many FOSS projects thoughAug 03 15:25
oiaohmBut the information to access there bank accounts and the like were locked up in closed soruce formats.Aug 03 15:26
schestowitzOh, that too..Aug 03 15:26
ThistleWebmany which are ready now would not have been back thenAug 03 15:26
schestowitzIt's complicated enough when a father dies....Aug 03 15:26
ThistleWebso it's a kinda moot pointAug 03 15:26
schestowitzEven worse when companies wiped out..Aug 03 15:26
schestowitzAlways good to make a master password and hand over to a next of kinAug 03 15:26
oiaohmOr your company has had a major stuff up.Aug 03 15:26
ThistleWebas far as history is concerned anywayAug 03 15:27
oiaohmI really do like Linux for its live cd functionality.Aug 03 15:27
oiaohmSo lot of cases badly harmed systems still can be used to do business.Aug 03 15:28
schestowitzBig wars are another issue of lost paper trail in banking, reclaimed money, etc. Even people hijacking the houses of dead people.Aug 03 15:28
oiaohmReally a war is a good example.Aug 03 15:29
schestowitzPriorities changeAug 03 15:29
schestowitzWe had no major disaster in many yearsAug 03 15:29
oiaohmIf you were depending on guns and ammo from 1 company.   If someone takes out that company you are in trouble.Aug 03 15:29
schestowitzNot like the tsunamis and earthquakes and AsiaAug 03 15:29
schestowitzCompanies become complacent.Aug 03 15:30
schestowitzThey think of disaster recovery as some scenario of a bad sector in the HDDAug 03 15:30
oiaohmtsunamis could hit the USA.Aug 03 15:30
schestowitzNot a burned down DC or a nuclear rocket on a  townAug 03 15:30
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, but haven't to the same extentAug 03 15:30
schestowitzOr meteors can hit the oceanAug 03 15:30
oiaohmThe large storm that hit you recently.Aug 03 15:31
schestowitzHappened not so long ago in astronomical scalesAug 03 15:31
ThistleWebcompanies dont think of prevention, they think of insuranceAug 03 15:31
schestowitzThistleWeb: heh.Aug 03 15:31
oiaohmUSA is over due for a tsunameAug 03 15:31
ThistleWebof who to sue, rather than how to prevent and recoverAug 03 15:31
schestowitzUntil the insurance companies turn out to be broke tooAug 03 15:31
schestowitzAnd then yell "bailllllllllllllouuuuuut!!!!'Aug 03 15:31
oiaohmNote tsumamis don't need earthquakes.Aug 03 15:31
schestowitzSo the insurance is usAug 03 15:31
oiaohmThey can be sub ocaen land slip.Aug 03 15:31
schestowitzWe 'insure' the insurance companiesAug 03 15:32
ThistleWebyeah, to the tune of Wipeout, complete with their tickets to Hawaii booked and their surf shorts onAug 03 15:32
schestowitzwhen they go belly-up we insure them and funnel some money overAug 03 15:32
oiaohmNew york is lined up perfectly for one.Aug 03 15:32
schestowitzWhy not just east coat in general?Aug 03 15:33
schestowitzOr the Pacific side.? More likely.Aug 03 15:33
schestowitzIt's only "news" if it happens in the westAug 03 15:33
schestowitzLike KatrinaAug 03 15:33
schestowitzThat's newsAug 03 15:33
oiaohmThere has been better detailed sonar scans around new york.Aug 03 15:33
schestowitzBut not when it happens in ChianAug 03 15:33
oiaohmWhy I don't know.Aug 03 15:33
ThistleWebCali is doing more damage to the environment, so in all likelyhood it'll reap some disaster before the other coastAug 03 15:33
schestowitzGovernator will save everything.Aug 03 15:34
ThistleWebCali is also struggling for moneyAug 03 15:34
ThistleWebwhich is a damning endictment considering it hosts the premier (in terms on world brands) music, movie and software industriesAug 03 15:35
ThistleWebyet it's struggling for cashAug 03 15:35
schestowitzSony Delivers Five FOSS Filmmaking Apps, Adding to Existing Ones < > <--------this may be handyAug 03 15:36
schestowitzThistleWeb: IIRC, $2.1tr i debtAug 03 15:36
oiaohmThe most insane thing is building a bio research lab in torado ally.Aug 03 15:36
schestowitzMaybe 3, can't remember... bring home the troops... support the troops, bring em homeAug 03 15:37
ThistleWebof course, Cali cash is different from Cali CORP cash, and Cali govt cash to spend on it's peopleAug 03 15:37
ThistleWebI do know there's more and more outcry about govt workers not being paid, or being paid in IOUsAug 03 15:37
ThistleWebbecause the state can't afford their wagesAug 03 15:38
schestowitzGoogle's value is miniscule compared to CA's debtAug 03 15:38
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schestowitzIdn't Oracle also based in CA?Aug 03 15:38
schestowitzSUN wasAug 03 15:38
schestowitzIf they sold em all (say to China), that would only pay like 10% of the debtAug 03 15:38
ThistleWebplenty of large corps have their funnels offices in tax havensAug 03 15:38
schestowitzSo they pass on the debt to their grandchildren, in essenseAug 03 15:38
ThistleWebto ensure they hardly pay a bean in tax, while expecting the average Joe to pay fullAug 03 15:39
schestowitzMicrosoft sets up a new HQ in PortugalAug 03 15:39
schestowitzFinance from IrelandAug 03 15:39
oiaohmThere is one company China would have a interest in that is in CA.Aug 03 15:39
schestowitzLove the globalisation thing! :-) Gotta love itAug 03 15:39
oiaohmThe one big solar plant producing company.Aug 03 15:39
schestowitzFoxxconn could but its commandeersAug 03 15:40
schestowitzBring the management over to China where it suits them betterAug 03 15:40
schestowitzTo China, using dollars never made political senseAug 03 15:40
schestowitzSoon enough it won't make economic sense, eitherAug 03 15:40
schestowitzThey don't need to trade via London/NYAug 03 15:40
oiaohmChina soon might own the world.Aug 03 15:41
oiaohmPurely threw debt.Aug 03 15:41
schestowitzThey figured out how they get scammed. I hear they build up extended next generationAug 03 15:41
_goblinschestowitz: Sorry, which post were you referring to?Aug 03 15:41
schestowitz_goblin: lastestAug 03 15:41
schestowitz*latestAug 03 15:41
_goblinBlog or NG?Aug 03 15:41
schestowitz 03 15:42
_goblinthanks....Aug 03 15:42
_goblinappreciated.Aug 03 15:42
_goblinIts Moshe again....Aug 03 15:42
schestowitzWhen the personal attacks starts it means you won the techical argumentAug 03 15:42
schestowitzThere's no "Moshe"Aug 03 15:42
schestowitzIt's Gary M StewartAug 03 15:42
schestowitzwith his ~500 pseudonymsAug 03 15:43
_goblinsurprisingly he didn't visit my blog and comment.Aug 03 15:43
_goblinhave we a photo of Gary?Aug 03 15:44
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schestowitz 03 15:46
schestowitz_goblin: yesAug 03 15:46
_goblinis it on your site?Aug 03 15:46
schestowitzA joke ratherAug 03 15:46
schestowitzYes, old one.Aug 03 15:46
schestowitz 03 15:47
schestowitzThat's how he's mentally visualisedAug 03 15:47
_goblinlolAug 03 15:48
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schestowitzThere's more funny stuff here: 03 15:48
_goblinmind if I use it for an up coming article?Aug 03 15:48
schestowitzNot been updated in ages BTW. I reckon that homepage on Geocities that I have (scroll down) will vanish with cronYahoo!Aug 03 15:48
_goblincredit will be givenAug 03 15:48
schestowitz_goblin: sure. Just make sure people know it's a satirivcalAug 03 15:49
_goblinlol....always do.....Aug 03 15:49
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schestowitz 03 15:52
_goblinSince there are people spending time actively watching these logs, can I just say......Look forward to the article of Moshe.....there's a few things that people won't know about him...Aug 03 15:56
schestowitzThere's no "moshe"Aug 03 15:57
_goblinyes I know.Aug 03 15:57
schestowitzyou can put that in quotes... flatfish goes over a decade backAug 03 15:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] IBM Vice President on his transition to GNU/Linux on the desktop (overview): 03 15:57
schestowitzMight be another BarktoAug 03 15:57
_goblinhe does have an IP though.....and I've been given it.Aug 03 15:57
schestowitzThe one which was not exposed yetAug 03 15:57
_goblinwhich has led me to other routes.....Aug 03 15:57
schestowitzMany Microsoft shills are said to be using comcastAug 03 15:58
_goblinincluding some very interesting "off-duty" browsing habits.....Aug 03 15:58
schestowitzIt's not just me seeing this pattern. Others reported it tooAug 03 15:58
_goblinjust have to confirm sources....Aug 03 15:58
_goblinand double check.Aug 03 15:58
_goblinI asked for a photo of Gary because someone has sent me one claiming its him.Aug 03 15:59
_goblinI wanted to know if it was the same person.Aug 03 15:59
schestowitzit's funny to see manager types wrestling with sys-admining: 03 15:59
schestowitz_goblin: careful of fakersAug 03 15:59
_goblinyep.Aug 03 15:59
schestowitzGary and his lackeys try to poison peopleAug 03 16:00
schestowitzThey tried this with meAug 03 16:00
schestowitzI sniffed under the assumption it was fakeAug 03 16:00
schestowitzAnd then I was deliberately given stuff that overlaps with realityAug 03 16:00
_goblinI may just use a picture of a garden slug to represent him.....Aug 03 16:00
_goblinthats probably more accurate anyway.Aug 03 16:00
schestowitzAs if to say, "look, it's almost like the truth you know about... plus some poison"Aug 03 16:00
schestowitzIf it's another barkto, it would really be somethingAug 03 16:01
schestowitzThere's lots of stuff that shows how  Barkto did his slime jobs for MicrosoftAug 03 16:01
schestowitzANd the company can now be sued for it royally by other companies, class actionAug 03 16:01
_goblinIve spent 3 months so far looking into the case of Moshe....I won't release the article prematurely.Aug 03 16:01
schestowitzAstroTurfing is illegal in EU and US nowAug 03 16:02
schestowitz_goblin: did you listen to latest LO show?Aug 03 16:02
schestowitz"Linux In-laws"Aug 03 16:02
schestowitzVery funnyAug 03 16:02
schestowitzfabs something acts far too silly, but maybe it's a matter of tasteAug 03 16:03
schestowitz 03 16:06
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_goblinsorry AFK there....Aug 03 16:14
_goblinno I havent yet.....any good?Aug 03 16:14
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schestowitz"Aug 03 16:21
schestowitzA lot of companies are using GNU/Linux as a leverage to get discounts from software vendors. " 03 16:21
schestowitzHad Linux not been good this would not workAug 03 16:22
schestowitzA lot of kids use icecream to urge the parents to take them for a proper mealAug 03 16:22
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schestowitzHTC now says 2009 revenue will fall < >Aug 03 16:29
schestowitzhenry Kingman seems to have vanished from eweekAug 03 16:29
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schestowitzCentOS: Getting Their S#!t Together is a Top Priority < >Aug 03 16:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] For those who foolishly believe that "Net Applications" means something, read this: 03 16:38
schestowitzWhen will people finally wake up and realise that Net Applications has Microsoft and Apple as customers [fact] and their key guy Hopkins used to work for a company that Microsoft bought? Vested interests... helllllllo?Aug 03 16:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Wow! "[...] all of the members of the European Union (EU) are required [...] Linux-based software exclusively" 03 16:45
schestowitzPetoKraus: /dev layout cleanup < >Aug 03 16:50
PetoKrausyupAug 03 16:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] In The Age Of FLOSS And Web 2.0 - Part 1 03 16:52
schestowitzChemistry Graphics Hassle on Ubuntu < >Aug 03 16:52
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schestowitzSound on Linux Anti-FUD: Calm, Certainty and Confidence < >Aug 03 16:56
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ThistleWebnothing like the recording industry to look after it's artists and do their bidding huh> >>> 03 17:03
ThistleWeb"I begged them not to release the track but they did so anyway without my consent"Aug 03 17:04
schestowitz:-) :-)Aug 03 17:04
schestowitzHere's the thingAug 03 17:04
schestowitzAttribution is needed and monetary transcation tooo, BUT...........Aug 03 17:04
schestowitz[Big but]Aug 03 17:04
schestowitzAll music is a copy of somethingAug 03 17:04
schestowitzArt likewiseAug 03 17:05
schestowitzIt's influencesAug 03 17:05
ThistleWeball creative stuff isAug 03 17:05
schestowitzIf someone grows up on Marvin Gaye, then he or she is likely to use similar beatsAug 03 17:05
schestowitzThe singing stuff tooAug 03 17:05
schestowitzSo what constitutes "original" is iffy groundAug 03 17:05
schestowitzIt's like patent vs copyrightAug 03 17:05
ThistleWebexactlyAug 03 17:06
ThistleWebnothing is created in a vacuumAug 03 17:06
schestowitzWhen Oates get pissed off cause people do renditions of I Can't Go For THat, fine.Aug 03 17:06
schestowitzThen there's fair use of sample used in rap tracksAug 03 17:06
schestowitzThat's a dodgy oneAug 03 17:06
ThistleWebFOSS makes a virtue of "standing on the shoulders of giants" where others try to hide it and claim credit for othersAug 03 17:06
schestowitzIf you take 3 seconds from a Sting tune and play it in a loop, is that 'stealing'?Aug 03 17:06
schestowitzThistleWeb: well, it's realisticAug 03 17:07
ThistleWebdepends, does your 3 seconds magically disappear from every copy of the original?Aug 03 17:07
schestowitzWe have processing power (brain)Aug 03 17:07
schestowitzBrain gets inputAug 03 17:07
ThistleWebif so, leaving it 3 secs shorter then it is stealingAug 03 17:07
schestowitzMakes outputAug 03 17:07
schestowitzWe call it creativity, but it's just a mashup of stuff we have in the neural systemAug 03 17:08
schestowitzSo to merely THINK or REMEMBER somethng can be copyright violationAug 03 17:08
schestowitzEsp. if put in paper/tape and then passed on to a peer/friendAug 03 17:08
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ThistleWebeven how they are marketted should be a clear pointAug 03 17:11
ThistleWeb"yeah we're like the stone roses with a bit of jameriqui"Aug 03 17:12
schestowitzIt becomes a philosophical isueAug 03 17:12
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ThistleWebthey don't get that style from thin airAug 03 17:12
schestowitzLaws are not defined by natureAug 03 17:12
ThistleWebthey get that because they like both bandsAug 03 17:12
ThistleWebthey are influenced by the sounds of both bandsAug 03 17:12
schestowitzExcept laws of nature that can be assumed since time is said to have begun Big Bang)Aug 03 17:12
schestowitzLaws in human terms are also an evolutionary thingAug 03 17:12
schestowitzAnd copyrights tooAug 03 17:12
schestowitzPatent law is fairly newAug 03 17:12
schestowitzCreated recently in human civilisation termsAug 03 17:13
schestowitzTo incentivise small inventorsAug 03 17:13
schestowitzNow it's a walfare system for lawyersAug 03 17:13
schestowitzTime to dismantle itAug 03 17:13
schestowitzAs for copyrights--similarAug 03 17:13
schestowitzRMS explains it wellAug 03 17:13
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schestowitzPeople need to go back to days when you had to manually cooy stuffAug 03 17:14
ThistleWeblaws written in a language the normal peeps cant read ensures that translators (lwayers) will always have a jobAug 03 17:14
ThistleWeblawyers*Aug 03 17:14
schestowitzYou'd take a scroll or whatever and write it all downAug 03 17:14
schestowitzThe bible was deformed and merged in this watAug 03 17:14
schestowitzNo copyrightAug 03 17:14
schestowitzShakespeare is mostly 'stolen' workAug 03 17:14
ThistleWebthey do have a point where the ease and quality of the copy is differentAug 03 17:14
schestowitzAnd nowadays we have digital storageAug 03 17:14
schestowitzNot just printing powerhousesAug 03 17:14
ThistleWebnow you can create an identical digital copy in a flash, compared to spending weeks hand writing somethingAug 03 17:15
schestowitzThey try to make digital work ADAPT to THEIR old system of privilege through intelectual monopoliesAug 03 17:15
schestowitzRather than the other way aroundAug 03 17:15
schestowitzAs in, asking what technology offers us in terms of business modelsAug 03 17:15
schestowitzTechDirt is an excellent source for such stuffAug 03 17:15
ThistleWebbefore when you copied a VHS the quality wasn't as good as the original, it also got worse with each subsequent copyAug 03 17:16
schestowitzThistleWeb: < laws written in a language the normal peeps cant read ensures that translators (lwayers) will always have a job >Aug 03 17:16
schestowitzSame with dentists and barbersAug 03 17:16
ThistleWebsame with tapesAug 03 17:16
ThistleWebdunno about barbersAug 03 17:16
schestowitzNot exactly the sameAug 03 17:16
ThistleWebmedical professions yesAug 03 17:17
schestowitzAnalogy of expertise where it can be obviatedAug 03 17:17
ThistleWebalthough medical professions have a value to societyAug 03 17:17
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ThistleWebbeyond enriching those in itAug 03 17:17
schestowitzMany people have short hair these days. They can just buy a shaver/hair-cutting machineAug 03 17:17
schestowitzWomen are a different issueAug 03 17:17
ThistleWebyeah I have clippersAug 03 17:17
schestowitzFor issues of fashionAug 03 17:17
schestowitzWhen is it that women started to differ from men in hair length?Aug 03 17:18
ThistleWebyeah, I have offered to clipper womens far I ain't had a single "alright then"Aug 03 17:18
schestowitzGoing many years back it seems to have stuck somehow, for no natural reason.Aug 03 17:18
ThistleWeblolAug 03 17:18
schestowitzThink about itAug 03 17:18
schestowitzWe should not take it for grantedAug 03 17:18
schestowitzLike asking, why is the sky blueAug 03 17:18
schestowitzThere are usuallt reasonsAug 03 17:18
schestowitzA second too is a meaningful emausreAug 03 17:19
schestowitzDay slices to 24 chunks, then divided by 60 and 60 againAug 03 17:19
schestowitzNot sure where "meter" (other than metric system) came from.Aug 03 17:19
schestowitzDid the French just decide arbitrarily what a meter will be?Aug 03 17:19
schestowitzAnd why hair length changes rather than cultural heredity?Aug 03 17:19
ThistleWebdunno, maybe we should find someone from France and ask themAug 03 17:20
schestowitzMaybe Wikipedia has an answerAug 03 17:20
schestowitzThere are many similar questions actuallyAug 03 17:20
ThistleWebdamn that wikipedia, I wanted an all expenses paid trip to France for that missionAug 03 17:20
schestowitzThings we take for granted like people's shaving of facial hair, women shaving their legs, etc.Aug 03 17:20
schestowitzAND...Aug 03 17:21
schestowitzGirls getting VERY skinnyAug 03 17:21
schestowitzSome years ago it would be considered uglyAug 03 17:21
ThistleWebthat's engrained to make us look more appealing to the opposite sex, as the media have taught us what they wantAug 03 17:21
schestowitzMany years ago being what we now call fat/obese was source of envyAug 03 17:21
ThistleWebof course the media's job, specially the fashion media's job is to sell this years clothesAug 03 17:22
schestowitzThistleWeb: yes, mediaAug 03 17:22
schestowitzBut that's culture-sellingAug 03 17:22
schestowitzDo you think bald dogs look better?Aug 03 17:22
schestowitzIf not, why not?Aug 03 17:22
schestowitzWell, fashion industry has a job of ahcnaging fashionAug 03 17:22
schestowitzOnly this way can they make the old needing replacementAug 03 17:23
ThistleWebthose clothes you spent a fortune on last year and have only worn a few tines, you'll be mocked by your peers if you wear them, but go buy this new stuff and you'll be acceptedAug 03 17:23
schestowitzSo the cycle of planned obsolescence is endlessAug 03 17:23
schestowitzThistleWeb: yes, cause Posh ans Bech don't wear em nowAug 03 17:23
schestowitzAnd then Beck shaves his headAug 03 17:23
ThistleWebthe fashion industry is full of peeps who make the clothes telling their shmucks what to wear, which coincidentally is what they makeAug 03 17:23
schestowitzAnd a nation of Englishmen followsAug 03 17:23
ThistleWebyeah trueAug 03 17:24
trmanco 03 17:24
schestowitztrmanco: what is cloud?Aug 03 17:24
schestowitzSounds like something for weather control that Google is doingAug 03 17:24
ThistleWebthe odd thing is, the peeps who can afford the prices, ie the celebs, are the ones who are often paid to wear them, and given the clothesAug 03 17:24
ThistleWebso they can be seen in the right places and trigger a wave of copycatsAug 03 17:25
schestowitzPut it in the next Kyoto treaty: need more cloud synchronisationAug 03 17:25
ThistleWebcopycats who will spend 6mths wages on a dress just because Posh wore itAug 03 17:25
schestowitzThistleWeb: Ellsion compared cloud to fashionAug 03 17:25
schestowitzHe said it's all jargon filledAug 03 17:25
schestowitzTHey change names and they market itAug 03 17:25
trmanco 03 17:25
schestowitzCloud becomes dominant by the very defintion of itAug 03 17:25
ThistleWebI still reckon an ideal name for a cloud OS is MonkeyOSAug 03 17:25
ThistleWebafter the 70's TV showAug 03 17:25
schestowitzYou declare a move to cloud computing, make noise about it and then say you have mastered itAug 03 17:26
schestowitzRMS called it the sameAug 03 17:26
schestowitzSoemthijg like "marketing hype"Aug 03 17:26
schestowitzHe said this to the Guardian originally IIRCAug 03 17:26
schestowitzPexOSAug 03 17:26
schestowitzPezOSAug 03 17:26
schestowitzIt's a dispenser of live CDsAug 03 17:27
schestowitzLive USB sticks in a hand sized Pez dispenserAug 03 17:27
schestowitzDarn. 3 WordPress  updates againAug 03 17:27
schestowitzMatt Lee quit WordPress cause of that update nuisanceAug 03 17:28
ThistleWeblolAug 03 17:28
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ThistleWebwould you rather have the MS genius of patch Tuesday?Aug 03 17:28
trmanco"You are using WordPress 2.8.3.  "Aug 03 17:30
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google's CEO Leaves Apple's Board Of Directors 03 17:33
taconeconflict of interestsAug 03 17:34
schestowitzAbout timeAug 03 17:34
schestowitzHe uses BlackBerry IIRCAug 03 17:34
schestowitzBut many in Google use Macs, even iphonesAug 03 17:34
taconeyou can't be inside 2 evil companies at the same time :PAug 03 17:34
tacone(i love google, btw)Aug 03 17:34
schestowitzSome use GNU/Linux of course, esp. engineersAug 03 17:34
taconei have iphone as well O:-)Aug 03 17:34
taconewell, they have gubuntuAug 03 17:35
schestowitzGoogle treads carefully so far... but it shills and lobbies tooAug 03 17:35
taconeor gobuntu or how they call itAug 03 17:35
taconegoogle's custom ubuntu.Aug 03 17:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] AP Charges $12.50 To Quote 5 Words It's suicidal for APAug 03 17:36
ThistleWebgoogle have a lot of OS's in their officesAug 03 17:39
ThistleWebfrom what I know, every employee has their choiceAug 03 17:39
ThistleWebgod luv'um, some pick windowsAug 03 17:39
schestowitzthe marketingf folksAug 03 17:40
schestowitzBut they moved to Google AppsAug 03 17:40
schestowitzThis removed many barriersAug 03 17:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why Those Who Don't Use GNU/Linux (or BSD) Let Companies Use Them 03 17:40
schestowitzWhen you use Gmail and Docs, then you just need Firefox or something for most thingsAug 03 17:40
ThistleWebI think Google work along the lines of "work in whatever OS you feel familiar with"Aug 03 17:40
schestowitzEngineers need their Google wares (proprietary)Aug 03 17:40
taconeyup, i saw them using iMacs in a conference (administrative girls, not devs). they were using google apps to keep track of the partecipantsAug 03 17:41
ThistleWebno matter what they use in the Googleplex all their customer facing stuff is LinuxAug 03 17:42
taconeand all their customer desktop apps are for windows :)Aug 03 17:42
ThistleWebI found where they got the name googleplex tooAug 03 17:42
schestowitzHaAug 03 17:43
schestowitzGoogle Code...Aug 03 17:43
schestowitzGoogle PlexAug 03 17:43
schestowitzMix and match...Aug 03 17:43
ThistleWebhitchikers guide to the galaxy, the scene with Deep ThoughtAug 03 17:43
ThistleWebwhere he's asking about other super computersAug 03 17:44
schestowitzThere's the gPLAug 03 17:44
schestowitzGoogle Public LicenceAug 03 17:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Desktop Gets Eye Candy Even with Mesa 03 17:44
ThistleWebgoogleplex is mentionedAug 03 17:44
schestowitzversus the MSPLAug 03 17:44
schestowitzms-PLAug 03 17:44
ThistleWeba strange coincidence just occurred to me about MS, it means short for 2 separate things, neither of whom are a picture of healthAug 03 17:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU Hurd Still Alive and Progressing 03 17:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Next Version of Linux Reaches Fifth Release Candidate 03 17:48
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Big Milestone for KMyMoney Coming Soon (Version 1.0 Release for KDE4) 03 17:52
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Diversity in GNU/Linux is a Strength , DistroWatch Reviews Slax 6.1.1 03 17:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another Review of Pardus 2009 03 17:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Red Hat Adds Many GNU/Linux Success Stories to Its Web Site 03 17:58
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] CentOS is "Back on Track" 03 17:59
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The whole FUD about "Linux has no support" is shredded to pieces, even when it comes to desktops. 03 18:04
_goblinThat always makes me chuckle when you see one of the ol' faithful say that.  It usually happens when they can't argue back....often followed by "freetard"Aug 03 18:05
schestowitzHehAug 03 18:06
schestowitzThat's a fairly new curse workAug 03 18:06
schestowitzMac=fanbayAug 03 18:06
schestowitzLinux=freetardAug 03 18:06
schestowitzThe f wordsAug 03 18:06
schestowitzWindows=f*ckwitAug 03 18:07
_goblinAlso they like "Linux unwashed"Aug 03 18:07
schestowitzUnwashes MASSESAug 03 18:07
schestowitz*edAug 03 18:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] 6 Reasons Why You Need to Drink More Coffee: 03 18:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Interview with LiMo Foundation's Chief (and Symbian Deserter) Morgan Gillis 03 18:07
_goblinalthough I turned that one back on them with my sig.Aug 03 18:07
_goblinIve just come across a new type of troll.......Aug 03 18:08
_goblinits called the workmate troll......Aug 03 18:08
_goblinits when your collegues find your blog and make remarks to wind you up....Aug 03 18:08
schestowitzOhAug 03 18:09
_goblinthe worktroll....Aug 03 18:09
schestowitzThe 'buddies'Aug 03 18:10
schestowitzI hard about those tooAug 03 18:10
_goblinin a light hearted way of course.......Aug 03 18:10
schestowitzThe 'helpers' that don't really help?Aug 03 18:10
schestowitz_goblin: you should publish a taxonomy of themAug 03 18:10
_goblinhe just sent me an email threatening to buy a Vista Laptop if I didnt come to the pub....Aug 03 18:10
schestowitzworktroll gives you work and distractionAug 03 18:10
schestowitzThat's the one you really want to ignoreAug 03 18:11
schestowitz_goblin: LOLAug 03 18:11
schestowitzThreaten to buy VistaAug 03 18:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Europe Claimed a Leader in Free Software 03 18:11
schestowitzLet him/her knock him/herself outAug 03 18:11
_goblinhe thinks that I would be bothered by that.Aug 03 18:11
schestowitzIt's like threatneing to drink piss, not like thretaening to commit suiciseAug 03 18:11
schestowitzLet the trolls inflict pain upon themselves, unless it's mortalAug 03 18:11
_goblinI know.....he's a little slow though.....Aug 03 18:12
_goblinHe is an technically minded as Jar Jar Binks.....Aug 03 18:12
_goblin*asAug 03 18:12
_goblinbut fairplay to him, he's made alot of money in property.Aug 03 18:13
_goblinanyway.....Aug 03 18:13
_goblinworktrolls aside, Ive finished my cull of Twitter......Aug 03 18:13
schestowitzBinks?Aug 03 18:14
schestowitzLike Bink?Aug 03 18:14
schestowitzAny relationship to the Microsoft Most Valuable Prick?Aug 03 18:15
_goblinJar Jar Binks? from Starwars.Aug 03 18:15
_goblinyou know that very annoying creature....Aug 03 18:15
schestowitzNope.Aug 03 18:15
_goblinnever seen Star Wars?Aug 03 18:15
_goblincheck the picture on my article "you know youve made it when....."Aug 03 18:16
schestowitzI haveAug 03 18:17
schestowitzBut a long while ago when I was a kidAug 03 18:17
schestowitzI thought it was scary at the timeAug 03 18:17
schestowitz_goblin: ah OKAug 03 18:17
schestowitzI saw that pictureAug 03 18:17
_goblinJar Jar had hate sites created after him......he was as popular with Star Wars fans as Clippy is with Windows users.Aug 03 18:17
schestowitzWe're different generationAug 03 18:17
_goblinah....Aug 03 18:18
schestowitzYou're the one where Star Wars aligned with adolescenceAug 03 18:18
schestowitzIsh..Aug 03 18:18
_goblinlol....Aug 03 18:18
_goblinyep....Aug 03 18:18
ThistleWebwhoosa arr yousaAug 03 18:19
_goblinnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooAug 03 18:19
ThistleWeblolAug 03 18:19
_goblinthats the one.Aug 03 18:19
_goblinhe was a little like Wesley Crusher from STNG - hated by all for being so annoying.Aug 03 18:19
_goblinThey need to be placed in SCI-FI hell.Aug 03 18:19
ThistleWebnot everyone can be a heroAug 03 18:20
_goblinagreed.....but there was no need for Wesley Crusher.....Aug 03 18:20
_goblinLook at Geordi......he wasnt really a hero, but was a decent character....Aug 03 18:20
ThistleWebyou mean apart from the draw for young female auiencesAug 03 18:20
_goblindid it work?Aug 03 18:20
ThistleWebI dunno, I;m neither young or femalAug 03 18:21
ThistleWebfemale*Aug 03 18:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] An Explanation of Free Software Economics 03 18:21
ThistleWebnor did I watch it when it was broadcastAug 03 18:21
_goblinah...Aug 03 18:21
_goblinI've got the lot on original VHSAug 03 18:21
ThistleWeb  <<lolAug 03 18:22
_goblinlooks a good link......following now!Aug 03 18:23
ThistleWeb  << a cleaner linkAug 03 18:23
_goblinListening to: Louie Louie - The track of all time....Aug 03 18:26
schestowitztwitter submitted this to /,.Aug 03 18:28
_goblindoes anyone know of a decent binaries grabber OTHER than Klibido?Aug 03 18:32
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ars Technica Blasts Microsoft Office and the Winner is Free Software 03 18:33
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schestowitzme listens to It's becoming the fav showAug 03 18:41
*trmanco reads this -> 03 18:42
_goblinagreed Roy....Ive recently discovered it...fantastic show.Aug 03 18:42
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sysop__Hi, I'm looking for Goblin; this is Rob from the E-mail.Aug 03 18:49
*sysop__ is now known as RZCAug 03 18:50
RZCHi, I'm looking for Goblin; this is Rob from the E-mail.Aug 03 18:50
RZCRoy, are you here?Aug 03 18:51
RZCcan anyone see this?Aug 03 18:51
_goblinhelloAug 03 18:52
_goblingot your email!Aug 03 18:52
RZChiAug 03 18:52
RZCalright.Aug 03 18:52
_goblinI'll create a new roomAug 03 18:52
_goblinso the conversation doesnt disturb here!Aug 03 18:52
RZCthanks.  how do I go to it?Aug 03 18:52
_goblin"/join #gobo"Aug 03 18:52
_goblinwithout quotesAug 03 18:53
schestowitzRZC: I'm here nowAug 03 18:54
_goblinRoy, that was HoustonLawy3r from Twitter....just been chatting with him.Aug 03 19:14
*RZC is now known as HoustonLawy3rAug 03 19:14
HoustonLawy3rI was trying to find out how usenet works.  Thank you Goblin -- our conversation was helpful.Aug 03 19:14
_goblinno probs....anytimeAug 03 19:15
_goblinand visit again!Aug 03 19:15
HoustonLawy3rI will.  Take care all..Aug 03 19:15
_goblinbye!Aug 03 19:15
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schestowitzHi, HoustonLawy3rAug 03 19:24
_goblinwhat a nice chap...Aug 03 19:27
_goblinlistening to Linux Outlaws Live!Aug 03 19:27
schestowitzYesAug 03 19:28
schestowitzLinux curiousAug 03 19:28
_goblinvery educated man too.Aug 03 19:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Introducing Bloatnux: New GNU/Linux distribution from Boycott Novell Thanks, Novell, for hosting our distribution.Aug 03 19:29
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Yay. Audio via HDMI on the Acer Aspire Revo works out of the box on Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic). @daviey owes me 50pAug 03 19:47
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Chips_B_MalroyHelloAug 03 20:00
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schestowitzHey, ChanServAug 03 20:01
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy:Aug 03 20:01
schestowitzI was just writing about Net AppsAug 03 20:01
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Chips_B_Malroygood 03 20:01
_Goblinhi Chips.....sorry Im over in Linuxoutlaws at the moment chatting and listening to the live stream.Aug 03 20:02
Chips_B_MalroyRoy, since you writting about them, you see that Net Apps has Windose back up to 93%Aug 03 20:02
Chips_B_Malroyusing selective countries like China for data is their excuseAug 03 20:03
Chips_B_MalroyHi GoblinAug 03 20:03
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: heheAug 03 20:03
schestowitzOh, I guess they just cherry-pick what they likeAug 03 20:04
schestowitzI'll just use BNAug 03 20:04
schestowitzMy only samleAug 03 20:04
schestowitzLinux market share>WindowsAug 03 20:04
Chips_B_Malroyif their (Net Apps) data is so great, how did Windows jump from less than 88% to greater than 93% in one month?Aug 03 20:05
Chips_B_MalroyThat 88% Net Apps figure, must have been an major embarassment for their sponser, Microsoft.Aug 03 20:06
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Chips_B_MalroyI posted this on Goblin's, might be of use to you.  But here is an interesting link, it seems in Germany at least, Linux Laptops Bestsellers in Germany. 03 20:08
Chips_B_Malroyalso this last link, most likely you have already seen it or linked to it:  Microsoft’s Long, Slow Decline 03 20:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Net Applications Finally Shows It’s Just a Joke: Mac ‘Market Share’ Halved Overnight! 03 20:11
schestowitzFeel free to spread around if you agree. This also accumulates and brings together previous posts that helps people be brought up to scratchAug 03 20:11
Chips_B_MalroyMS Watch is back running with Nicholas KolakowskiAug 03 20:12
Chips_B_MalroyI would say that Net Apps is a "bad" joke.  As so many people take this "M$ Shill" word, or stats as gospel.Aug 03 20:13
Chips_B_MalroyNet Apps has no standards except for what their sponsers (M$) want on any given day.Aug 03 20:14
Chips_B_Malroyyou might want a snapshot of the net apps pagesAug 03 20:15
Chips_B_Malroylike any shill, they are apt to change the statsAug 03 20:16
Chips_B_MalroyRoy, is Lumpy finially done trolling the comments here?Aug 03 20:16
Chips_B_MalroyA request, if I might, I know all your time goes into this project.  But if you could delete my account here, so I could create another, so I could comment sometime, without excessively feeding the trolls, that would be super.  I could create a Nym, I know how, but its not my style, even though I do understand why others do so.Aug 03 20:20
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trmanco 03 20:26
Chips_B_MalroyI would credit your articles as the reason that Net Apps felt forced to "change" the way they collected data.  But of course, the change they made, was to line their own pockets, not to show true data.Aug 03 20:30
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: yes, MS Watch is backAug 03 20:34
schestowitzThe new guy reminds me of the Seattle p-i PR puppetAug 03 20:35
schestowitzThey are Microsoft fans appointed as -PR- 'journos'Aug 03 20:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] MediaWiki Replaces Microsoft Office While Microsoft’s Attack on ODF Continues at Wikipedia 03 20:35
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: yes, re Net AppAug 03 20:35
schestowitzGo to Brazil and tell em that Apple has x10 the market share of LinuxAug 03 20:36
schestowitzBring Kleenex.. they'll laugh too hard on you they'd spill the cokeAug 03 20:36
schestowitzBN posts on IFG are widely cited TBHAug 03 20:37
schestowitz /s/IFG/Net Apps/Aug 03 20:37
schestowitztrmanco: what does she code?Aug 03 20:38
trmancoI have no ideaAug 03 20:38
Chips_B_MalroyNet Apps is going lose whatever respect it had left after this, Mac Fans will be up in ArmsAug 03 20:38
schestowitzIf the rapper was called RMS he'd be called "racist"Aug 03 20:38
schestowitzAnd "sexist"Aug 03 20:38
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: hehe. Well, yeah..Aug 03 20:38
schestowitzThey 'lost' half their ego in one monthAug 03 20:39
schestowitzWait until Dan Diligent [sic] calls them MS shills...Aug 03 20:39
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Chips_B_MalroyThe w3schools OS market share data, just became the best source of data available, as Net Apps just completely discredited itself.Aug 03 20:41
Chips_B_MalroyActually, Roy, while the Mac data lost 5%, the bigger gain was Windows in the Net Apps data, whiched gained 7% overnightAug 03 20:43
Chips_B_Malroyit seems that MS Watch holds all comments for "review" now.  And yes, only a fanboy can run the site, as it depends on MS advertising, as most blogs about MS do.  Nick seems a little careful to hide most of his admiration so far for MS, but that cannot last too long.Aug 03 20:46
Chips_B_MalroyBut then maybe the pre-sales of Windows Seven did spike the OS market share overnight by 7% as Net Apps would like the guilable to believe?Aug 03 20:51
Chips_B_MalroyLOLAug 03 20:51
schestowitzWel...Aug 03 20:53
schestowitzYou know Microsoft's results were fantasicAug 03 20:53
schestowitzVista was an overnight hitAug 03 20:53
schestowitzANd Microsoft's results were 'only' down like 28%-30%Aug 03 20:53
schestowitzSo I bet they made a stealth comebackAug 03 20:53
schestowitz /sarcasmAug 03 20:54
Chips_B_MalroyhahaAug 03 20:55
Chips_B_Malroyyep, some of your articles are so important, I wish there was a way to keep some of them at the top for longerAug 03 20:56
Chips_B_MalroyGoblin, are you still there?Aug 03 20:59
Chips_B_MalroyI was curious if Goblin is going do a review of Mepis 8?Aug 03 21:00
schestowitzHe's busy with headphones, mereckonsAug 03 21:01
schestowitzI started listening more to audiocasts as wellAug 03 21:01
Chips_B_MalroyJust downloaded, burned and ran from LiveCD PCLinuxOS 2009-2 (32bit only).  Its the better more refined Mandriva for me.  It nice, but the wireless setup was not as easy as Mepis 8.Aug 03 21:02
Chips_B_MalroyPerhaps its the best beginning distro available stillAug 03 21:03
ThistleWebthat reminds me, I'll have to try pclos 2009Aug 03 21:04
Chips_B_MalroyThistleWeb, PCLinuxOS is only missing a 64 bit OS,  but truely a fine very polished KDE distro for Beginners and other users.Aug 03 21:05
ThistleWebthe 2007 version was the first full time linux I could useAug 03 21:05
ThistleWebwell, that worked with my hardwareAug 03 21:06
ThistleWebI spent about maybe 8mnths on it, recommending it on forums, comments etcAug 03 21:06
Chips_B_MalroyI like Texstar's workAug 03 21:06
ThistleWebI've since grown out of KDE and onto GTKAug 03 21:07
ThistleWebalso drawn to .deb distrosAug 03 21:07
ThistleWebso maybe it's just too late for meAug 03 21:07
ThistleWebit is very polished thoughAug 03 21:07
ThistleWebpity about the nameAug 03 21:07
Chips_B_MalroyI always install some lite windows managers, like Icewm, fluxbox, and afterstep, after I do an install.Aug 03 21:08
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ThistleWebI seem to jump between crunchbang / openbox and mint xfceAug 03 21:09
Chips_B_MalroyNice thing about GNU/Linux, is the choice, its so custemableAug 03 21:09
ThistleWebboth are gtkAug 03 21:09
ThistleWebyeah, choice is goodAug 03 21:09
trmanco 03 21:09
Chips_B_MalroyMint I keep checking on, but I do not want Mono, while Gnome is OK, and long ago preferred it, grown used to KDE.  Not a big fan of sudo, so its another reason I perfer other than Ubuntu based.Aug 03 21:10
Chips_B_MalroyBut I have no problems installing Ubuntu based on new users computers, if that hardware is supportedAug 03 21:11
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ThistleWebmy issues with the speedtouch modem needed firmware updates in most distros including ubuntu, where pclos picked it up at bootAug 03 21:12
ThistleWebeven in live modeAug 03 21:12
ThistleWebevery distro I tried then had the speedtouch hassleAug 03 21:12
ThistleWebexcept the mandriva lineAug 03 21:13
Chips_B_MalroyThistleWeb,  we were talking a few weeks ago about converting files, and I gave you a link.  But here is a gui alternative that works nice   WinFFAug 03 21:13
ThistleWebmandrake*Aug 03 21:13
ThistleWebyeah I tried thatAug 03 21:13
ThistleWebit's patchyAug 03 21:13
ThistleWebit has the zen profile but the results dont always wokrAug 03 21:13
Chips_B_MalroyWinFF makes files (mpeg) too big, trueAug 03 21:14
ThistleWebwork*Aug 03 21:14
ThistleWebthat tooAug 03 21:14
ThistleWebshame, because the zen is a cool playerAug 03 21:14
ThistleWebjust a pity creative have tied their apps to MSAug 03 21:14
Chips_B_Malroyfor most modems, including some winmodems, Mepis might have the best hardware supportAug 03 21:15
ThistleWebI've not had any probs with any distros after I switched the modem to a routerAug 03 21:15
Chips_B_Malroyabout 30% of USA is still dialupAug 03 21:15
ThistleWebevery distro, even windows detects the broadband and knows it's supposed to use itAug 03 21:16
Chips_B_MalroyyesAug 03 21:16
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ThistleWebbefore then, pclos was my saviourAug 03 21:16
ThistleWebit allowed me to move from windowsAug 03 21:16
ThistleWebbefore then, I couldn never get online with any linuxAug 03 21:17
ThistleWebI liked what I saw, just couldnt get onlineAug 03 21:17
Chips_B_Malroyearly Red Hat 5.2 found my modemAug 03 21:17
ThistleWebactually Mandriva one was the first, but that was buggy as hellAug 03 21:17
ThistleWebthen came PCLosAug 03 21:18
Chips_B_Malroybut until Mepis 3.3.0 never got all the hardware working, modem, sound etcAug 03 21:18
ThistleWebI've not had hardware issues at all for ages now, not counting the zen / wmp issuesAug 03 21:18
Chips_B_MalroyThe key is to have several different live cd's for new user installs, to find a live cd that will work best on the hardwareAug 03 21:19
ThistleWebyepAug 03 21:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Wants More Control of Indian Government, US Space Programs [thanks,Aug 03 21:19
Chips_B_Malroyyes, hardware support is better nowAug 03 21:19
ThistleWeba variety of live cds too, no point in all three *buntusAug 03 21:19
Chips_B_MalroyBecause of Mono, buntu is the last disk I would tryAug 03 21:20
ThistleWebpclos is a very good newbie distroAug 03 21:21
Chips_B_Malroyon new users computersAug 03 21:21
ThistleWebso is mintAug 03 21:21
Chips_B_Malroygoing try the bleeding edge Sidux again soon tooAug 03 21:21
Chips_B_Malroybased on debian sid, was the group that was formerly Kanotex, without KanoAug 03 21:22
ThistleWebI sometimes reckon fedora is so bleeding edge it's anaemicAug 03 21:22
schestowitzWow. Mint KDE looks NICE out of the boxAug 03 21:24
schestowitzTempting away from PCLOS and Mandriva..Aug 03 21:24
Chips_B_MalroyI like Slackware, but even with slap-get, its not enough for newbies, which I deal with.  They need a gui like Synaptic Package Manager and Kpackage.Aug 03 21:25
Chips_B_MalroySynaptic for me was the killer app, after Mepis 3.3.0 got all my hardware working, that easily let me install software after the installation.Aug 03 21:26
ThistleWebyeah GUI apps are requiredAug 03 21:26
schestowitzMandriva has themAug 03 21:26
Chips_B_Malroyat that point, Linux becames easier than Windows for meAug 03 21:26
schestowitzAnd they just workAug 03 21:26
ThistleWebthere is slapt-getAug 03 21:27
schestowitzWindows. Meh...Aug 03 21:27
schestowitzJust to install apps you need to do some much  browsingAug 03 21:27
schestowitzAnd googling and whatever... clicking...Aug 03 21:27
schestowitzInstalling one app at a time.Aug 03 21:27
Chips_B_MalroyRoy, i had to convert from somethingAug 03 21:27
schestowitzFor WIndows users to understand this they need to use Linux first and then use the archaic VistaAug 03 21:27
schestowitzVista: "we primitive but omg! we gots aero!!1"Aug 03 21:28
ThistleWebplenty of windows users get confused when they cant find apps in the windows way, because nobody told them they just need to open the candy store app (package manager) and run amokAug 03 21:29
Chips_B_Malroyapt-get is so much better, and with the gui's for apt-get like Synaptic, its easy for windows users converting.  Its the killer app, as Roy stated, install more than one app, no need to hunt around the web for one binary app (windows) that might be infected.Aug 03 21:30
ThistleWebsome peeps who come to linux from windows dont know the concept of a package manager thoughAug 03 21:30
ThistleWebso they get frustrated trying to install stuffAug 03 21:31
ThistleWebI always make a point of showing it off to new usersAug 03 21:31
ThistleWeb"that's your first port of call for new software"Aug 03 21:31
ThistleWeb"it's your friend"Aug 03 21:31
schestowitzApple has that tooAug 03 21:31
Chips_B_MalroyThistleWeb, true windows users get confused when they cannot find apps the windows way.  This happened to a relative of mine.  I finially got the relative to use synaptic properly, and now hookedAug 03 21:31
schestowitzFor iPhoneAug 03 21:32
schestowitzPay per clickzAug 03 21:32
schestowitzThe Apple 'synapic tax'Aug 03 21:32
schestowitz*ticAug 03 21:32
ThistleWebits a concept that "get" after it's pointed out how powerful it isAug 03 21:32
ThistleWebbut they never think to look for itAug 03 21:32
ThistleWebbecause windows don't work like thatAug 03 21:32
schestowitzThe issues is familiarity with appsAug 03 21:33
schestowitzMy brther called me some hours agoAug 03 21:33
schestowitzHe asked what Linux apps to useAug 03 21:33
schestowitzI told him about k3b and gimpAug 03 21:33
Chips_B_MalroyApple uses and abuses BSD, its why Mac OS X is so stable and mostly malware freeAug 03 21:33
schestowitzThe issue is that WIndows users want to use Windows programs on LinuxAug 03 21:33
schestowitzThey don't know the equivalent and there's fear of the unknownAug 03 21:33
schestowitzMy brother doesn't know bootloaders, eitherAug 03 21:34
schestowitzForeign concept to manyAug 03 21:34
schestowitzAs if the computer can only boot one thingAug 03 21:34
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: many Apple worms come from Apple,not BSD. Safari, QuickTime, etc.Aug 03 21:34
Chips_B_MalroyWine for a few apps, but mostly its just best to use the native apps.  For a few games like Bejewelled 2 its okAug 03 21:35
Chips_B_Malroyseems most Windows users play that gameAug 03 21:35
schestowitzHow much of a big deal is made today out of Schmidt's departure from the toys storeAug 03 21:35
Chips_B_MalroyGweled is great, but I bet Popcap has sold to 60% of windows users Bejewelled 2Aug 03 21:36
schestowitzBBC main: 03 21:36
Chips_B_Malroyif you get the right version, it works with wine or crossoverAug 03 21:36
schestowitz_Goblin, Chips_B_Malroy 03 21:38
*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovellAug 03 21:38
schestowitzit's a FOSS company being befriended by all kinds of Microsoft accounts. Sometimes it's TEs who aggressively promote Microsoft to themAug 03 21:38
Chips_B_Malroyyou have had a lot of attacks here recently Roy.  First the increase in trolls/shills. The mono crazies. Then the DDOS, then Linsux  folks, who are most likely back by M$. Then the Lumpy troll, who every other troll and shill joined with, if you noticed.Aug 03 21:41
Chips_B_Malroyand now you are accused of committing tought crimes, LOLAug 03 21:42
schestowitz 03 21:45
Chips_B_Malroywasn't Mutex one of the Linsux people?Aug 03 21:46
schestowitzYeahAug 03 21:46
schestowitzHe has karma hereAug 03 21:46
schestowitzMaybe he's here now.Aug 03 21:46
Chips_B_Malroyah, u felt sorry for him and let him back inAug 03 21:47
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: another attack on us: 03 21:47
schestowitz"The dark side"Aug 03 21:47
schestowitzActually, I'm not feeling dark, just cheerful and honestAug 03 21:48
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: yesterday he went mental. See logsAug 03 21:48
Chips_B_MalroyLinsux members are either shills or mentalAug 03 21:49
schestowitzI was glad to see this: 03 21:50
schestowitzI moved to Latex almost 10 years agoAug 03 21:50
Chips_B_MalroyI tryed to search them out, as in who owned Linsux, who was behind them, their data is very well hidden.Aug 03 21:50
schestowitzNever was a fan of word processors and now I use blogs and wikis mostly... and plain text in Kate.Aug 03 21:50
schestowitzEven latex is becoming redundant now with wiki syntaxAug 03 21:50
schestowitzword Processor = paginatingAug 03 21:51
schestowitzWiki=hyperlinksAug 03 21:51
Chips_B_MalroyBut i believe M$ is the force behind Linsux, no matter how they try to spin itAug 03 21:51
schestowitzThey sure attract the pro-MS trollsAug 03 21:51
schestowitzBased on who's there and raves about itAug 03 21:51
Chips_B_MalroyexactlyAug 03 21:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Banks utterly surprised to be paying squillions in bonuses again 03 21:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Man Gets Flat Tire, State Threatens Foreclosure 03 21:52
Chips_B_Malroymost likely funded by you know whoAug 03 21:52
schestowitzWhat's most valiahble to MS are people who pretend to be pro-Linux and bash itAug 03 21:53
schestowitzYou see it in memosAug 03 21:53
schestowitzThey cite Red Hat peopleAug 03 21:53
schestowitzSo the "I like Linux, BUT..." trolls are valuable to themAug 03 21:53
Chips_B_Malroyyes, that was a common tactic on MS Watch comments tooAug 03 21:53
schestowitz"We're trying to improve Linux... it sucks... we're miniscule..."Aug 03 21:53
schestowitzMicrosoft thrives int theseAug 03 21:53
schestowitzSee the TE who decided to strike against BNAug 03 21:54
schestowitzlook who he cites for 'support'Aug 03 21:54
schestowitzLike... oh, well, Roy must be horrible because the 'Linux people' from "Linsux" don't like himAug 03 21:54
schestowitzThen citing the anti-Linux trolls from other placesAug 03 21:54
schestowitzMaybe I can link to comments from MS-Watch..Aug 03 21:54
schestowitzTo show "Microsoft's policy", as per people who comment in the siteAug 03 21:55
schestowitzThose who hate us say we want Microsoft employees dead cause some idiots left such comments in blog postsAug 03 21:55
Chips_B_Malroymost likely they were M$ trolls/shills pretending to be usAug 03 21:56
schestowitz 03 21:56
Chips_B_Malroylike the Linsux peopleAug 03 21:56
schestowitz ( Solar Customers Fuming Over Proposed Fee )Aug 03 21:57
schestowitzThey took over IRC for a whileAug 03 21:57
schestowitzBut "US" is also LinuxAug 03 21:57
schestowitzAs in, create a site to pretend to be a Linux communityAug 03 21:57
schestowitzOr have people like cj who used to work on Microsoft contracts enter the FOSS world and advance Microsoft at the same timeAug 03 21:58
schestowitz"Microsoft is all cuddly"Aug 03 21:58
schestowitz"Y'all just haters"Aug 03 21:58
schestowitz"You're not real OSS supporters"Aug 03 21:58
schestowitz"Who cares about freedom? It's open source"Aug 03 21:58
schestowitz"I love Linux, but it's not 'ready for the desktop'(R), so I use Mac"Aug 03 21:59
schestowitzAnd this becomes the new pseudo-identity of the 'Linux crowd'Aug 03 21:59
schestowitzLike the new Yahoo! or VMware or ISO... whatever Microsoft infiltrated with great success actuallyAug 03 21:59
Chips_B_MalroyEven I do not Hate Microsoft.  But there are many things I hate about MSAug 03 22:00
schestowitzHating a company?Aug 03 22:00
schestowitzLike a brand?Aug 03 22:00
schestowitzMany people hate Ballmer and Harcio, OKAug 03 22:00
schestowitzCause they are bulliesAug 03 22:00
schestowitzAs long as they direct the company, the company will be distrustedAug 03 22:00
schestowitzTurns out Melco was SUEDAug 03 22:00
schestowitzMicrosoft is racketeeringAug 03 22:00
Chips_B_MalroyI hate the fact that so many Windows users have Malware infested computers, at appox 80%.  That MS cannot setup their OS by default in a more secure way.Aug 03 22:01
schestowitzThreatening Linux vendors and then also suing, like with TomTomAug 03 22:01
schestowitzWhere are the Secret Services?Aug 03 22:01
schestowitzThis is RICO Act violation AFAIKAug 03 22:01
schestowitzApple warns iPhones vulnerable; fixes bug 03 22:01
schestowitzStore video catches cop bullying woman < >Aug 03 22:02
Chips_B_MalroyBallmer is the prodigy of Gates, he learned from the Master.  Gates will all about dirty tricks in business, and lockins coupled with extending and patents.Aug 03 22:02
schestowitzMy Kindle ate my homework: lawsuit filed over 1984 deletion 03 22:02
Chips_B_MalroyThe lockin is more important to MS and Ballmer, than anything else they doAug 03 22:03
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: yes, Pearly did it smiling and being cocky tot he camera (unlike deposition as tapes show)Aug 03 22:03
schestowitzGates is a very nasty character based on those who knew him personally.Aug 03 22:03
schestowitzJobs tooAug 03 22:03
schestowitzVery impatient, ferociousAug 03 22:03
Chips_B_MalroyThe lockin is all Ballmer/Gates know.Aug 03 22:03
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: it's not just imporrtant, they depend on itAug 03 22:03
schestowitzYesAug 03 22:03
schestowitzBut it needs to be bannedAug 03 22:03
schestowitzGovt should say lockin is a contract annulerAug 03 22:04
schestowitzannuller\Aug 03 22:04
Chips_B_Malroyyes, but its not working (lock in) so well anymore.Aug 03 22:04
schestowitzInstead they are raped by lobbyists like Jon ZuckAug 03 22:04
schestowitzFor RAND and stuffAug 03 22:04
Chips_B_MalroyThe EU is starting to look at the lock inAug 03 22:04
schestowitzNaa..Aug 03 22:04
schestowitzToo slowAug 03 22:04
schestowitzBUTAug 03 22:04
Chips_B_Malroyat least some of itAug 03 22:04
schestowitzI suppose you saw the rreport I included int he NetApps postAug 03 22:04
Chips_B_Malroypeople are starting to reject the lock inAug 03 22:05
schestowitzAbout EU members of P. moving to GNUAug 03 22:05
Chips_B_MalroyI seen an article on the web, wish I had the link, about not using Office 2007 to save a Resume.   As most companies could not read it, as they used older OfficeAug 03 22:06
Chips_B_Malroyand they would just delete the resumeAug 03 22:06
Chips_B_Malroyso the lock in comes back and bites them sometimesAug 03 22:06
schestowitzGoogle Maps accused of unfair competition in France 03 22:06
schestowitzToo late by thenAug 03 22:07
schestowitzThey could do what they do with ciggiesAug 03 22:07
schestowitzMake Microsoft put a warning on Office boxesAug 03 22:07
schestowitz"Microsoft Office harms your data!{Aug 03 22:07
schestowitzNot in those words, obviouslyAug 03 22:07
Chips_B_MalroyM$ needs to give their users what they wanted, they did not want Vista, they wanted a better improved leaner, far more secured, XP.  Seven will not be that.Aug 03 22:08
schestowitzInstead they fake ODF support, which is just more harmful than anythingAug 03 22:08
schestowitzIt won'tAug 03 22:08
schestowitzVista 7 got fat at RC stageAug 03 22:08
schestowitzThey did something to itAug 03 22:08
schestowitzSpoiled the brothAug 03 22:08
schestowitzMaybe DRM or something strapped onto itAug 03 22:08
Chips_B_Malroymost likely more DRM?  LOLAug 03 22:08
ThistleWebthey do like to claim they offer peeps what they want, while hearing "WE WANT XP" and responding with "you can have Vista"Aug 03 22:08
schestowitz 03 22:09
schestowitzThistleWeb: would make a nice Monty Python sceneAug 03 22:09
ThistleWebmaybe lolAug 03 22:09
schestowitzThe masses yell "we WANT! XP!"Aug 03 22:10
Chips_B_MalroyM$ will continue to waste its time on DRM, Lockin, and unnesacary features in Seven and Windows 8, while ignoring the main problemsAug 03 22:10
schestowitzOy Tenenbaum! RIAA wins $675,000, or $22,500 per song 03 22:10
Chips_B_MalroyWhy is the question?Aug 03 22:10
ThistleWebright now they claim to offer choice when they sell XP and Vista, even if it is dictated by the type of PC you buy, what happens if Windows 7 is the "one windows to rule all"? the choice will reduce to just Windows 7Aug 03 22:11
schestowitzVista 8 will inherit the same problem, but who knows what that is...Aug 03 22:11
schestowitzThe landscape is changign a lotAug 03 22:11
schestowitzThistleWeb: no, they'll sell XP until 2011Aug 03 22:11
schestowitzAt least.Aug 03 22:11
ThistleWebmaybeAug 03 22:11
schestowitzThey know they need to revive XP to keep Linux 'out'Aug 03 22:12
ThistleWebI reckon if windows 7 is tollerable on netbooks they'll whip XP off the marketAug 03 22:12
schestowitzSo will all future VIsta versions need to virtualise XP to keep backward compat?Aug 03 22:12
ThistleWebforce peeps onto windows 7Aug 03 22:12
schestowitzMicrosoft really dropped the ball with that oneAug 03 22:12
ThistleWebof course it helps when you have peeps try to redefine "netbook" so that it can cope with windowsAug 03 22:13
schestowitzNever ceases to amaze: 03 22:13
Chips_B_MalroyI conclude, that Gates and Ballmer have already thought it pointless to do anything but to milk the windows OS to death by high profits.  Not really pour money into R&D in Windows, but to use that money elsewhere, even thought it says it used it there.  Gates knows that even if Windows is fixed the best it can be, it cannot win in the long run against free Linux.  So he has decided not to waste money fixing windowsAug 03 22:13
schestowitzNot only thatAug 03 22:13
schestowitzThey sue LinuxAug 03 22:13
schestowitzI only today found out they sued a second timeAug 03 22:14
schestowitzTHey are SCO!Aug 03 22:14
schestowitzThey are suing like SCOAug 03 22:14
schestowitzSigns of last agonyAug 03 22:14
schestowitzAnd the word needs to be spread that Miceosoft is doign thisAug 03 22:14
schestowitzIt's RacketeeringAug 03 22:14
ThistleWebMaybe that's why they felt a kinship with Novell, the name SuSE Linuxc can easily be typo'd to SUE LinuxAug 03 22:14
schestowitzTechDirt got it right on "DORMANT" FCC: Apple's Google Voice Rejection Wakes Up A Dormant FCC; Investigation Begins < >Aug 03 22:15
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Chips_B_MalroyThey are SCO?  Not quite, but most informed could get they are the money behind SCOAug 03 22:15
schestowitzSuddenly they do their jobAug 03 22:15
schestowitzAnti-Apple after Microsoft appointment. It at least need to be /considered/Aug 03 22:15
ThistleWebwouldn't it be funny if the FCC turned their targets onto MS after dealing with AopleAug 03 22:15
*cubezzz2 is now known as cubezzzAug 03 22:16
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: no, metaphoricallyAug 03 22:16
schestowitzThistleWeb: why would a Microsoft VP attack his buddies?Aug 03 22:16
schestowitzHe's a MD at the FCC nowAug 03 22:16
schestowitzNo 'cool-down' periodAug 03 22:16
ThistleWebmaybe the FCC has been embarassed that the EU is doing it's job while the FCC sleepsAug 03 22:16
schestowitzCold turkey from abuser to regulatorAug 03 22:17
Chips_B_MalroyIf SCO dies, M$ will find another patent troll to take its placeAug 03 22:17
cubezzzsurely SCO must be dead by now?Aug 03 22:17
ThistleWebChips_B_Malroy: novell?Aug 03 22:17
schestowitzNot many places (if any) will point out the Microsoft appointment at the FCCAug 03 22:17
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: they already haveAug 03 22:17
Chips_B_MalroyThistleWeb, I think not NovellAug 03 22:17
schestowitzIV, Acacia (maybe), Novell....Aug 03 22:18
ThistleWebit'd be an interesting list, all the FCC peeps and their previous affiliationsAug 03 22:18
schestowitzWhy doesn't the LF (aka IBM at al) complain about Microsoft's patent atack?Aug 03 22:18
schestowitzThey sort of did with ECISAug 03 22:18
schestowitzBut it's not in the USAug 03 22:18
Chips_B_MalroyBush/Obama and MS and FCC/DOJ,  There is a patternAug 03 22:18
schestowitzTHis whole thing is ludicrous cause you can't rely on companies to drive regulationsAug 03 22:19
schestowitzThey mostly collude or find themselves in hypocrisy trapsAug 03 22:19
schestowitzCan we get a list of FCC management?Aug 03 22:19
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Chips_B_MalroyRoy your articles on Russia are great.  If only one country can get out from under the M$ yokeAug 03 22:20
schestowitzWe can do some googling on each to see how many comes from companies they ought to watchAug 03 22:20
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: they have antimonopoly probeAug 03 22:20
schestowitzOver sub-notebooks, obviouslyAug 03 22:20
schestowitzJust one egg in a big basket of abuses. Like Netscape in a seas of Microsoft crimes, chosen as a symbolic case among better potential onesAug 03 22:21
schestowitzAnother junk artilce that's posted 3 times in identical form: Is Linux Getting Too Plump?Aug 03 22:21
ThistleWeblemmie guess Bryan?Aug 03 22:22
Chips_B_MalroyI believe we are at the fight stage of gandi's, "First they ignore you....."Aug 03 22:22
Chips_B_MalroyThe fight right now is on Netbooks, MS had to cut prices to keep Linux off them in the USA.  That is their base of highest profits, the USA mature market.Aug 03 22:23
Chips_B_MalroyThe EU second, followed by the Pacific rimAug 03 22:24
Chips_B_MalroyWhen the ARM netbooks come out, the fight will get very uglyAug 03 22:24
ThistleWeblike any expensive procts licence, the most profitable areas are also the most litigiousAug 03 22:24
Chips_B_Malroyboth Intel and MS will dump to kill ARM firstAug 03 22:25
ThistleWebadobe know that most photoshop installs are illegalAug 03 22:25
ThistleWebbut they know that pro businesses like magazine editors cant affors to have illegal copiesAug 03 22:25
ThistleWebso they will pay the big pricesAug 03 22:25
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Chips_B_MalroyAnd I think that M$ is most likely working on a ARM port of Windows CE right now to compete with ARM LinuxAug 03 22:26
ThistleWebthey target those who can payAug 03 22:26
Chips_B_MalroyThey have to, or if ARM makes it, they loseAug 03 22:26
ThistleWebwithout arm, they're in limb-oAug 03 22:27
Chips_B_MalroyBest thing going is the Google Chrome OS, if succesful, Google will have the money on ARM to get on OEM machines, if M$ trys to put an Windows version on ARMAug 03 22:27
ThistleWebmaybe they dont have the legs for the raceAug 03 22:27
Chips_B_MalroyAnd since Chrome OS uses a Linux kernel, Debian ARM should not have any problems replacing Chrome as they will have the same hardware supportAug 03 22:28
Chips_B_MalroyThistleWeb, we will see, if they do.  My guess is that MS has to try to kill off ARM first by dumping with their partners Intel, which also will dump prices on low end cpu's as wellAug 03 22:30
ThistleWebamputate the arm so to speakAug 03 22:30
Chips_B_MalroyIf that fails, they will come out with a Windows ARM based on CE almost overnightAug 03 22:30
ThistleWebas well tested as Vista lmaoAug 03 22:31
schestowitzIntel is another criminal companyAug 03 22:31
schestowitzThe EU will hopefully pay atention againAug 03 22:31
Chips_B_MalroyM$ already had a NT4 based but not released for Mips as wellAug 03 22:31
schestowitzIntel was found guilty in other continents tooAug 03 22:31
ThistleWebaint it odd that many of these companies are US ones?Aug 03 22:31
ThistleWebUS companies who are above the law in the USAug 03 22:32
Chips_B_MalroyYes, Roy.  You can bet that  both MS and Intel will join forces to try to kill ARMAug 03 22:32
Chips_B_MalroyIt could go so far as none of the major OEM's will release an ARM Netbook, because of fear of M$Aug 03 22:33
schestowitz*LOL*Aug 03 22:33
schestowitz 03 22:33
schestowitzMediaWiki gets an editor called FCKAug 03 22:33
schestowitzNamed after the maker's initialsAug 03 22:34
schestowitzThis sound more rude than "vi-ing a file". So how does that work? You FCK the Wiki in the morning and fsck the server every night?Aug 03 22:34
ThistleWebFCK is an editor for other FOSS apps too I think, like wordpress and drupalAug 03 22:34
schestowitzfsck=filesystem checkAug 03 22:34
ThistleWeba wysiwyg editorAug 03 22:34
schestowitzNot reallyAug 03 22:34
schestowitzUnless they changed itAug 03 22:34
ThistleWebor am I thinking of something elseAug 03 22:35
ThistleWebI thought I saw that as a pluginAug 03 22:35
schestowitzTinyMCEAug 03 22:35
ThistleWebthats oneAug 03 22:35
ThistleWebthere are othersAug 03 22:35
schestowitzSureAug 03 22:35
Chips_B_MalroyIts nicer to see the shills/trolls not over running IRC and the comments, I avoided this place until that happenedAug 03 22:35
ThistleWebtinymce seems to be the more matureAug 03 22:36
ThistleWebseems to be more flexable in the apps it's built for (right now anyway)Aug 03 22:36
schestowitzTwitter starts filtering links to malware sites 03 22:36
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: comments are cleaner tooAug 03 22:37
schestowitzAnyway, IRC was always used a lot more than commentsAug 03 22:37
Chips_B_Malroyyes, I noticedAug 03 22:37
schestowitzAll in all, the site can be kept focused nowAug 03 22:37
schestowitzNo flamewarsAug 03 22:37
Chips_B_Malroycomments are important, as they get seen by a lot of people.  also some will coment that will not use IRCAug 03 22:38
schestowitzNintendo gets jiggy with Facebook 03 22:38
schestowitzIRC is interactiveAug 03 22:38
schestowitzDisruptive people are easier to handleAug 03 22:38
schestowitzComments were never censored either way, so RT won't make a differenceAug 03 22:39
schestowitzFujitsu staff to vote on strike call 03 22:40
Chips_B_MalroyRoy, I know you did not like my feeding the Lumpy troll (flamewar), but I did dig out some information on him by doing so,  which was my purpose.  Also, while he engaged me, it left your other posts mostly untouched for awhile by his comments.  And left you free to do other things for awhile.  The point being he was going go off no matter what.Aug 03 22:41
schestowitzI don't want to talk about peopleAug 03 22:42
Chips_B_Malroyif Lumpy was Lefty, which we will most likely never know, but suspect that he isAug 03 22:42
schestowitzTrust me, I know enough about him to make him embarrassed as hell, but I'm not playing that gameAug 03 22:42
Chips_B_MalroyokAug 03 22:42
schestowitzAnway....Aug 03 22:42
schestowitzBack on topivcAug 03 22:42
schestowitzDid you see _Goblin's latest post?Aug 03 22:43
schestowitzhe's doing some digging into Microsoft marketingAug 03 22:43
schestowitzWe understand it much better nowAug 03 22:43
schestowitzReverse-emngineering the Microsoft brainwash model, which can then be shown and shamedAug 03 22:43
schestowitzMicrosoft appointed a guy from Toyota to be Comms exec (shills supreme)Aug 03 22:44
schestowitzHe QUIT after MONTHSAug 03 22:44
schestowitzAmazing. What did he seee?Aug 03 22:44
Chips_B_MalroyGstar managing your collection is Goblins latestAug 03 22:44
schestowitzHe ran back to motors... after interviewing to get that job at MicrosoftAug 03 22:44
schestowitzNow it's Waggenner-Shillsdom that runs itAug 03 22:44
schestowitzShawAug 03 22:44
Chips_B_Malroymust not be up yetAug 03 22:45
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: no, prior to itAug 03 22:45
schestowitzStar Wars imageAug 03 22:45
_Goblinbonjour....back again...Aug 03 22:45
_GoblinHave I got a biggie nearly ready......Aug 03 22:45
_Goblinjust a few more things to double check....Aug 03 22:46
_Goblinand a few more phone calls.Aug 03 22:46
Chips_B_MalroyGoblin, hey you going do a Mepis 8 review?Aug 03 22:46
schestowitzMint 7Aug 03 22:46
_Goblinyep I had intended.....Aug 03 22:46
_GoblinI was distracted by Zenwalk Gnome.Aug 03 22:46
_Goblinso Mepis has been put on hold!Aug 03 22:47
Chips_B_MalroyWhen you do some one will post a link to your article on their forumAug 03 22:48
_Goblincool.Aug 03 22:48
_GoblinIts a good distro....its been used by the wife regularly....Aug 03 22:48
schestowitzTry Mint 7 KDEAug 03 22:49
schestowitzIt's kde4Aug 03 22:49
_GoblinUbuntu........Aug 03 22:49
Chips_B_Malroygive you some more traffic, the good kindAug 03 22:49
schestowitzHmmm.... I should have writtena  review on pclosAug 03 22:49
_Goblinand I'm not really a fan of KDE...Aug 03 22:49
schestowitzI was too lazyAug 03 22:49
schestowitz_Goblin: don't knock it till you try it (again)Aug 03 22:49
Chips_B_MalroyI have cano's community KDE4.23 Mepis 8 32 bit release on live DVDAug 03 22:50
_Goblinnot at all.... I just don't like KDE....Aug 03 22:50
schestowitzLie!! Heretic! :-pAug 03 22:50
Chips_B_MalroyNot a problem, if you say that in your reviewsAug 03 22:50
_Goblinand the Ubuntu thing, Ive been there done that....Its great, its out of the box...I try looking for more exotic solutions....Aug 03 22:50
_Goblinhence Wolvix...Aug 03 22:51
_Goblinand on one rig AROS.Aug 03 22:51
_GoblinIve also be looking at a 100% asm OS.Aug 03 22:51
_Goblinsince I've never migrated nor condoned these highlevel languages that float around today.Aug 03 22:52
Chips_B_Malroyyes, as explained earier, I need distro's with a gui installer like Synaptic, for new users.  slap-get and apt-get are command line, while I can use them, I would not expect new users to do thatAug 03 22:52
_GoblinRoy, remember my python code that trashed my blog and randomly spammed this channel?Aug 03 22:53
_Goblincan't get my head around high level languages.....Aug 03 22:53
_GoblinI like registers and interupts.Aug 03 22:53
schestowitzembedded?Aug 03 22:53
schestowitzI did that tooAug 03 22:53
_GoblinThe only decent MS package..........Aug 03 22:54
_GoblinDebugAug 03 22:54
_GoblinCurrently I am still using Devpac2 religiously.Aug 03 22:54
_Goblinand no matter how good Linux is, I'd drop it in a second for a return to the days of the Amiga.Aug 03 22:55
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_Goblinmy first love......the A500Aug 03 22:56
_GoblinDoes that make me a Commodore shill?Aug 03 22:57
_GoblinIm a little late if it does......Aug 03 22:57
_GoblinHang on correct that....shills don't legitimately love their products, they are simply paid to love them.Aug 03 22:58
Diablo-D3noAug 03 22:59
*Chips_B_Malroy (i=4731c09d@gateway/web/freenode/x-hugciewnhpvbbnzj) has joined #boycottnovellAug 03 22:59
Diablo-D3they are simply paid.Aug 03 22:59
Diablo-D3what they love is the moneyAug 03 22:59
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] One of the harshest critiics of KDE4 (SJVN) likes it now @ 4.3: 03 23:00
schestowitzIs marble kde4-only? 03 23:00
Chips_B_MalroyOk, Roy and Goblin, thanks for letting me chat, keep up the great work!Aug 03 23:03
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schestowitzping wallclimberAug 03 23:08
schestowitz_Goblin: Watch Star Wars ASCII Animation via Telnet on Linux Terminal < >Aug 03 23:10
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schestowitzFake ATM doesn't last long at hacker meet 03 23:15
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] [] Coder Girl: Read the lyrics 03 23:20
_Goblinschestowitz: Thanks for the link, I'll look now!Aug 03 23:22
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_Goblingot it playing now in my terminal....Aug 03 23:24
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_Goblinits not the whole movie is it?Aug 03 23:25
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schestowitzTwitter has begun filtering links for Windows (malware)Aug 03 23:26
schestowitz_Goblin: AFAIK it's just a portionAug 03 23:27
schestowitzIt's not newAug 03 23:27
schestowitzThere was football on terminal a while backAug 03 23:27
schestowitzI think I tried watching the World Cup in 2002 using itAug 03 23:27
schestowitztelnet iircAug 03 23:27
_Goblinlol.Aug 03 23:27
schestowitzNot so useful without compressionAug 03 23:28
_GoblinI will never let anyone tell me that I have too much time on my hands.Aug 03 23:28
schestowitzBut you could sncode bits as coloursAug 03 23:28
_GoblinI will simply link them to that....Aug 03 23:28
schestowitzAnd then apply off/mpeg to itAug 03 23:28
_Goblinoh..Lukes just seen the message from Princess LeiaAug 03 23:29
schestowitzA kid was arrested in Boston for having a screen with a terminalAug 03 23:29
schestowitz_Goblin: (Princess Leia Fantasy)Aug 03 23:29
_Goblinlol...Aug 03 23:30
_GoblinI'm going to have to do a little feature on that telnet starwars!Aug 03 23:31
_Goblinwe're progressing quite a way through the film....Aug 03 23:31
_GoblinLukes now met obi wan.Aug 03 23:31
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taconebash is proof of terrorismAug 03 23:33
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schestowitzGet arrested in Boston for using Ubuntu Linux Console 03 23:36
schestowitzBoston College Campus Police: "Using Prompt Commands" May Be a Sign of Criminal Activity [updated below] 03 23:36
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_Goblinlol still going...we are on the Falcon now and Luke is getting his training to become a JediAug 03 23:37
_GoblinI bet this is the complete film.Aug 03 23:37
schestowitzIf could be automatically translated to ASCIIAug 03 23:38
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schestowitzI saw converters that do this, matching blocks of pixels to symbolsAug 03 23:38
schestowitzfewa: any progress on Wikipedia?Aug 03 23:38
_GoblinIts a hell of an effort though....Aug 03 23:39
schestowitzShareholder Bill of Rights Could Have 'Bigger Impact Than Sarbanes-Oxley' < >Aug 03 23:40
schestowitz_Goblin: not if automatedAug 03 23:40
schestowitz FSF/CampaignsMeetings/2009-07-31Aug 03 23:41
schestowitz"  MattAug 03 23:41
schestowitz    * Has been helping with migrating Plone to new version, but will leave the rest to sysadmins.Aug 03 23:41
schestowitz    * Revising Windows 7 text and updating schedule -- seek city permit. "Aug 03 23:41
schestowitzMatt lives nearby.Aug 03 23:42
_Goblinno sorry, I meant the effort put in to the ascii animation......the text is accurate in places, but obviously shortened intentionally in others, that would require human input.....and that in itself is impressive.Aug 03 23:42
_Goblinawww the connection closed.....not sure if thats because the animation had ended or just a problem with the connection.....Aug 03 23:43
_Goblini'd say it was about 85% through the film.Aug 03 23:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] FSF/CampaignsMeetings/2009-07-31 What's that with city permit and Vista 7? Is the FSF organising an action against it?Aug 03 23:44
schestowitzByfield 's in linux pro mag now.. 03 23:44
fewaschestowitz, what do you mean?Aug 03 23:44
schestowitz_Goblin: it's coming to the big screen as asciiAug 03 23:45
schestowitzpixels as big as your head !Aug 03 23:45
schestowitzfewa: relicensed the Wiki for use in WIkipedia. I thought someone was making use of itAug 03 23:45
schestowitzI still plan lots to do with the Wiki, to organise it better and expand. It's still messyAug 03 23:46
schestowitzWTF Is Linux? 03 23:47
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schestowitz "A common complaint about GNOME is that it has a certain fetish for icons. Menu entries, buttons - everything has an icon attached to it which often wastes space needlessly by making buttons larger than they need to be, as well as menus wider than they need to be. The good news (for me, at least) is that the next GNOME release will have all these icons removed."Aug 03 23:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Why the Pembury is full of hot geek ch1xx0rs 03 23:53

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