IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 12th, 2009

-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] BusinessWeek seems to be spraying Google News with loads of junks such as this #BusinessWeek #fail #eTrashAug 12 00:00
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DaemonFCschestowitz: The IE security updates from yesterday hijack all bad urls to BingAug 12 00:57
DaemonFCoh, hmmm, an update says it's whatever the user's "default" search engine isAug 12 00:57
DaemonFCIE only ships with BingAug 12 00:58
DaemonFCso they're betting that most people are too lazy to change thatAug 12 00:58
DaemonFCyou know, with ISPs and Microsoft fighting over whose typos get them a typosquatting click pennyAug 12 00:59
DaemonFCI wonder who will winAug 12 00:59
DaemonFC 12 01:00
DaemonFCCracked Windows 7 is $5 in ChinaAug 12 01:00
neighborleewell I might have stuck with win7 , IF acpi had worked right...MIGHT have.Aug 12 01:01
neighborleestill shows as unknown deviceAug 12 01:02
neighborleeasus mobo a8n-EAug 12 01:02
DaemonFCI was having tons of suspend and resume problems with Vista after SP2 for whatever reason, 7 doesn't do thatAug 12 01:03
DaemonFCit's like Vista would get halfway through suspending then never shut off the hard diskAug 12 01:03
DaemonFCwho knows what that's all aboutAug 12 01:04
neighborleeexactlyAug 12 01:04
neighborleeexactly what im getting here in win7Aug 12 01:04
neighborleedont recal if I had such issues in vista or notAug 12 01:04
DaemonFCI never had the issue in Vista til SP2 + the GDI+ patchAug 12 01:05
DaemonFCthe SP2 installer from Windows Update automatically grabs the GDI+ patchAug 12 01:05
neighborleeahAug 12 01:05
DaemonFCand if you don't have that patch, then any image file your system loads can force a buffer overflowAug 12 01:06
DaemonFCand install spyware :PAug 12 01:06
DaemonFCwell, in conjunction with some malicious script on the webpageAug 12 01:06
neighborleegreatAug 12 01:06
DaemonFCthe problem was affecting any browser, including OperaAug 12 01:06
DaemonFC:DAug 12 01:06
neighborleeno doubtAug 12 01:06
DaemonFCand completely bypassed UACAug 12 01:07
neighborleeOOPS ;)Aug 12 01:07
DaemonFCyeah, and the problem affected XP too I believeAug 12 01:07
DaemonFCso it's been there for 8 years in every version of WindowsAug 12 01:07
DaemonFCickAug 12 01:07
neighborleegreatAug 12 01:07
DaemonFCit even affected the Windows 7 BetaAug 12 01:07
DaemonFCthey issued a security patch for that during the beta cycleAug 12 01:08
DaemonFCApple has a lot of Snow Leopard pics in 10.6 :PAug 12 01:12
DaemonFCSnow leopard with flurries, Snow leopard prowling, Snow leopard scratching, Snow leopard covered in snowAug 12 01:12
DaemonFCnow all they need is Snow Leopard spraying Steve BallmerAug 12 01:12
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neighborleelolAug 12 01:18
neighborleebrb..I inserted medium that widnows doesnt like and cdrom has hungUPAug 12 01:18
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DaemonFCdamn that routerAug 12 01:36
DaemonFCthey landed on Mars with VxWorks and it can't even run my Linksys router?Aug 12 01:36
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*DaemonFC is making the rounds changing all his passwordsAug 12 02:35
DaemonFC:PAug 12 02:35
DaemonFCI hate doing thisAug 12 02:35
neighborleemy router messes up occasionally as wellAug 12 02:39
neighborleelinksys wireless-GAug 12 02:39
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**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Aug 12 02:48:51 2009
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 12 02:52:35 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovellAug 12 02:52
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Aug 12 02:52
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Fri Jun 12 17:24:05 2009Aug 12 02:52
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelAug 12 02:52
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twitterWow.  MIT Exchanged the Farm.Aug 12 02:53
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twitterThe stuff they had sounded great.  Kmail's IMAP works well with Google, so I suggest MIT students dump campus mail and move completely to Google.  That way, they get filters and a calender they can share.Aug 12 02:54
twitterKontact + Google is good stuff.Aug 12 02:54
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DaemonFC`damn itAug 12 02:56
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DaemonFCneighborlee_: You wouldn't happen to have $50 I could borrow til next Wednesday would you?Aug 12 02:57
DaemonFC:PAug 12 02:57
twitterha ha ->  A fourth student, who is uncomfortable with the general anti-Microsoft attitude on campus, [lies their ass off to say that Exchange is the greatest thing since sliced bread and cell phones.}Aug 12 02:57
DaemonFCwhy would they do that?Aug 12 02:57
DaemonFCthey're not even being paid to? right?Aug 12 02:58
twitter 12 02:58
DaemonFChehAug 12 03:00
DaemonFCI'll bet that sent a bug up Richard Stallman's assAug 12 03:00
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DaemonFCgenerally you don't swap out something that is free and works wellAug 12 03:01
DaemonFChmmm, go down about half the article and it does get fishyAug 12 03:02
DaemonFCthey want to pay for Symantec spam filtering?Aug 12 03:02
DaemonFCare they smoking crack?Aug 12 03:02
DaemonFCthey tell the complainers to go use GmailAug 12 03:03
DaemonFChehAug 12 03:03
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DaemonFCtwitter: It's not like Microsoft is the biggest waste of education moneyAug 12 03:04
DaemonFCyou could look at it like thatAug 12 03:04
DaemonFCall students have to pay for parking permits that don't guarantee a spot and a "general fund" for the university football team at most universitiesAug 12 03:05
DaemonFCthat's ridiculousAug 12 03:05
DaemonFC$5 for Windows Vista is a bargain in comparison, at least it actually does somethingAug 12 03:05
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DaemonFCI'm watching some MSCE idiot trying to put together a HackintoshAug 12 03:22
DaemonFCthis is fairly amusingAug 12 03:22
DaemonFC"Why doesn't it have drivers for my PC?" /whineAug 12 03:23
DaemonFC"Why does it ask me to identify my keyboard, Windows doesn't do that!" /whineAug 12 03:23
DaemonFCthis guy is so helplessAug 12 03:23
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DaemonFCI think I may have found out what's causing the drop offsAug 12 03:34
DaemonFCdefinitelyAug 12 03:35
Diablo-D3your mom?Aug 12 03:35
DaemonFCwhenever Windows starts TCP/IP Netbios Helper Service, the connection dropsAug 12 03:35
DaemonFCthat's interestingAug 12 03:37
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Will_DaemonFC : why is he trying to make a Hackintosh?Aug 12 03:46
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DaemonFCWill_: Because he can I guessAug 12 04:06
DaemonFCobviously he figured out how to burn the DVDAug 12 04:06
DaemonFCthat's probably further than most MSCEs getAug 12 04:06
DaemonFC:)Aug 12 04:06
Will_eh, just wondering.Aug 12 04:09
DaemonFCUsing an old Dell to base your Hackintosh on is probably not the first step to successAug 12 04:09
DaemonFCmost people build their own system using as close to what Apple does as they can getAug 12 04:10
Will_Most people that want *nix on a PC just put Linux on.  The only time I see people making Hackintoshes is just to see if they can do it.Aug 12 04:10
Will_Like the people that get Linux running on Timex watches.Aug 12 04:10
DaemonFCmeh, I don't really care that they want to do it, it is their systemAug 12 04:10
DaemonFCbut going out of your way to build a second rate Mac clone that can't even get updatesAug 12 04:11
DaemonFCthat's just a little absurdAug 12 04:11
ThistleWebgiven how insane Apple are about breaking stuff, the concept of not getting updates could be a positive thingAug 12 04:11
DaemonFCthose OSX86 "distributions" come and goAug 12 04:12
DaemonFCand so you may be stranded and have to reformat eventually and use somebody elsesAug 12 04:12
twitterPeople who don't know GNU/Linux think they prefer OSX.  I've met a couple of these people.Aug 12 04:12
DaemonFCwell, the other problem is eventually you may need one of those updatesAug 12 04:12
DaemonFCcause a program that runs on OS X 10.5.8 may not run on 10.5.7Aug 12 04:12
DaemonFCit just depends on if Apple tweaked any system components, and they do that sometimesAug 12 04:13
ThistleWebI reckon Apple get a lot of peeps who want not-Windows, but the only non-Windows they know of is AppleAug 12 04:13
DaemonFCthe reason Mac users don't complain is cause those are freeAug 12 04:13
ThistleWebsince Apple have a profile, they have adverts in the mainstream media, they have storesAug 12 04:13
DaemonFCthey're like a service pack rollup, probably less substantial though since there tend to be more of them more frequentlyAug 12 04:13
DaemonFCApple doesn't dow onesies and twosiesAug 12 04:14
DaemonFCthey slam you with a megapatch every several monthsAug 12 04:14
Will_twitter : funny thing I used to do occasionally -- ask a Mac salesperson what advantages the Macs have over a PC (that comes from System 76 or Zareason et. al).Aug 12 04:14
DaemonFC*doAug 12 04:14
Will_They go into the standard "no viruses, etc." routine.  Then I tell then that PC isn't running Windows.Aug 12 04:14
DaemonFCApple has a small range of commercial software that may attract someone, vs. LinuxAug 12 04:15
DaemonFCbut yeah, on a generic PC, it's pointlessAug 12 04:15
ThistleWebthe large patch sizes have left me wondering about apple in the pastAug 12 04:15
DaemonFCyou're best off to just choose Windows or Linux or FreeBSD, because those aren't intended to block PC users :)Aug 12 04:15
Will_I may yet buy a Mac just to try it out.Aug 12 04:15
ThistleWebwindows is not meant to block pc users?Aug 12 04:15
DaemonFCwell, I don't know which approach scares me moreAug 12 04:16
DaemonFCMicrosoft dropping 2,000 patches on you in a SP every couple yearsAug 12 04:16
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DaemonFCor Apple dropping 20-50 every few monthsAug 12 04:16
Will_But yeah, I wish more people knew that there was a third option.Aug 12 04:16
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DaemonFCobviously you already have most of the service pack if you keep up with the onesies and twosiesAug 12 04:16
ThistleWebMS relies on peeps not knowing there's another optionAug 12 04:16
shreddarHey guysAug 12 04:17
Will_That's why Macs are selling so well.  It's just as ThistleWeb said.Aug 12 04:17
DaemonFCand those are far less likely to damage somethingAug 12 04:17
twitterI've considered buying a Mac before.  My experiences running other people's laptops have been disappointing, but I'd like a laptop with better battery life.Aug 12 04:17
twitterApple is not free software friendly.Aug 12 04:17
ThistleWebpeeps with money and a serious desire to avoid MS will always go MacAug 12 04:17
DaemonFCthat's trueAug 12 04:17
ThistleWebfor everyone else, they wanna make sure they're seen as the only game in townAug 12 04:17
twitter 12 04:17
DaemonFCI don't see many rich people bothering with Linux when they can just dump a pile of money on a Mac ProAug 12 04:17
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DaemonFCmust be niceAug 12 04:18
twitterI have not been back to an Apple store.  I might buy a used mac one day to have a PPC laptop.Aug 12 04:18
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ThistleWebit's like a vote for a political party, parties will always claim every vote is pro-them, when most will be anti-the-other-guyAug 12 04:18
DaemonFCPC and Windows software and hardware is virtually identical to Apple more or lessAug 12 04:18
DaemonFCat a third the priceAug 12 04:18
twitterI'd rather have a crunchpad and put Debian on it.Aug 12 04:18
DaemonFCso I jsut don't see why anyone uses Apple unless they just have a ton of cash to dumpAug 12 04:19
Will_twitter : that's what I'm scared off.  I need to make absolutely sure that the Mac will do just as well with the stuff I use in Linux.  Or, failing that, that it will run Linux well.Aug 12 04:19
shreddarWhat about the Iphone?Aug 12 04:19
DaemonFCactually, even Windows in a lot of ways is more "open" than a MacAug 12 04:19
DaemonFCdue to the various peripheral competitorsAug 12 04:19
DaemonFCshreddar: There's other smartphonesAug 12 04:19
ThistleWebApple does seem to work well for peeps who buy into the whole Apple workflowAug 12 04:19
twitteryou are better off with an iTouch, but I'm sure it's a non free hardware nightmare.Aug 12 04:20
DaemonFCI think the iPhone is quite possibly the most overratedAug 12 04:20
Will_Palm Pre, for one.Aug 12 04:20
shreddarYeah but right now which one is the best?Aug 12 04:20
shreddarHonestlyAug 12 04:20
DaemonFCBlackberryAug 12 04:20
DaemonFCin my opinionAug 12 04:20
twitteriPhoneAug 12 04:20
Will_oops, forgot that oneAug 12 04:20
DaemonFCbypass Microsoft and Apple :PAug 12 04:20
Will_Blackberry tooAug 12 04:20
DaemonFCstill works with your PCAug 12 04:20
Will_and a host of other smartphones from Verizon et al.Aug 12 04:20
DaemonFCI played around with Windows Mobile 6.1 in the store a while agoAug 12 04:20
DaemonFCand I was not impressedAug 12 04:21
DaemonFCPocket Internet Explorer horrified me more than anythingAug 12 04:21
DaemonFCbut you can always run Opera on it tooAug 12 04:21
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shreddarI don't know they had pocket IEAug 12 04:21
ThistleWebas long as you buy into the Apple workflow, and intend to keep buying more and more stuff that will only work on Apple, so that when you need a new PC, you're gonna have to start from scratch if you don't buy a new MacAug 12 04:21
twitterI have not seen a nicer phone than iPhone.  The only problem is it's lack of freedom and ATT - general problems you can't avoid if you own a cell phone.Aug 12 04:21
DaemonFCyeah, it's not the same engine as WindowsAug 12 04:21
twitterI still have a Nokia brick.Aug 12 04:21
DaemonFCit works a bit better, has mobile zoom and scrolling features obviouslyAug 12 04:22
DaemonFCnot as good as Opera though, not by farAug 12 04:22
twitterI don't trust my things on an ATT owned device.Aug 12 04:22
DaemonFCthe mobile versions of Opera even still have mail and IRC clients in them usuallyAug 12 04:22
shreddarYeah I genrally don't like cell phones because of the rate structureAug 12 04:22
DaemonFCAT&T donates to all the RepublicansAug 12 04:23
DaemonFCup to their maximum allowed contributionAug 12 04:23
DaemonFC:PAug 12 04:23
shreddarIt's worse than the reagular phone service which I also think is a ripAug 12 04:23
DaemonFCthat's a huge reason I avoid anything they have anything to do withAug 12 04:23
Will_The iphone doesn't seem as radically superior to the other things out there as it did a few years ago.Aug 12 04:23
ThistleWebcorporate america is not partisanAug 12 04:23
DaemonFCAT&T is heavily partisanAug 12 04:23
ThistleWebthey donate to both parties, to ensure they have influence under any adminAug 12 04:23
ThistleWebto carry on as usual, regardless of who the chumps ellect as their leaderAug 12 04:24
DaemonFCI go through CredoAug 12 04:24
DaemonFCthey donate to progressive non-profitsAug 12 04:24
DaemonFCI signed up my Blackberry to work with their networkAug 12 04:24
DaemonFCthey basically have Sprint acting as their backbone provider thoughAug 12 04:25
Will_ThistleWeb : that probably describes just about any corporation or entity weathy enough to throw serious money around.Aug 12 04:25
DaemonFCbut still somehow manage to be cheaperAug 12 04:25
ThistleWebWill_: exactlyAug 12 04:25
ThistleWebthey dont take chances at ellectionsAug 12 04:25
ThistleWebthey ensure they have influence regardless of the resultsAug 12 04:25
ThistleWebthat means donating to both sidesAug 12 04:26
ThistleWebthe same applies in every country with ellectionsAug 12 04:26
ThistleWebdonate to every party with a reasonable chance of winningAug 12 04:27
DaemonFCcoolAug 12 04:27
DaemonFCyeah, that's usually how it goesAug 12 04:27
shreddarAT&T is a huge example of my country's ability to deal with TRUSTsAug 12 04:27
DaemonFCbut there's a considerable bent one way or the other in some casesAug 12 04:27
ThistleWebthey may vocally favour one over the otherAug 12 04:27
ThistleWebor have an exec linked more with oneAug 12 04:28
ThistleWebsponser a fundraiserAug 12 04:28
Will_And there lies a dilemma in political system... what to do when you don't really like either entrenched party's candidate, but the other candidates don't realistically have the power and money to break in.Aug 12 04:28
ThistleWebbut all of that is stratigic by regions tooAug 12 04:28
DaemonFCWill_: I usually just vote for the one I think will do me the least harmAug 12 04:29
DaemonFCI think everyone else does tooAug 12 04:29
ThistleWebif they can help push one candidate in a close seat into power, with a targeting of resources, that politician will likely be far more grateful when they get inAug 12 04:29
Will_That's what I've done so far.  Just wish there were other good options.Aug 12 04:29
ThistleWebit may be in a region where the regional council is considering a new tender for that serviceAug 12 04:29
twitterYou liberate the spectrum and open the nations' wires.  Both are public property and both should be free to competition.Aug 12 04:29
DaemonFCconsidering the Republicans consider me public enemy number 1 on a lot of their social platform, there's really one other choiceAug 12 04:30
twitter 12 04:30
ThistleWebthe rebublicans are increasingly looneytunesAug 12 04:30
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twitterThere's no need to regulate spectrum anymore.Aug 12 04:30
ThistleWebmore and more "normal" peeps are seeing it tooAug 12 04:30
DaemonFCwell, the loonies are the only ones left who will believe themAug 12 04:31
DaemonFCthey have to try to stoke the embers of irrational hate and religious bigotryAug 12 04:31
DaemonFCcause that's where their base of support isAug 12 04:31
ThistleWebindeed. They strengthened a hardcore of conservatives in the south under Bush, who would likely have voted republican anyway, and lost the rest of the countryAug 12 04:32
Will_This isn't the age of radio, or even TV, anymore.  If anything, it's the age of Youtube and Twitter.Aug 12 04:32
DaemonFCWill_: Yeah, but we have an aging populationAug 12 04:32
DaemonFCwho still listens to Rush Limbaugh on AM radioAug 12 04:32
DaemonFCthat's the problemAug 12 04:32
DaemonFCand a growing number of them who know how to use the internetAug 12 04:32
ThistleWebthe republicans are looking more and more desperate these daysAug 12 04:33
DaemonFCsuddenly there's a million mini Rush Limbaughs on every web siteAug 12 04:33
DaemonFCwhere does that end?Aug 12 04:33
DaemonFCthere's more and more old people as time goes on and that huge generation gets up thereAug 12 04:33
ThistleWebwith even more outrageous claims you'd expect they'd leave to their right wing loudmouths to take the flackAug 12 04:33
DaemonFCand the AARP recruits all of themAug 12 04:33
ThistleWebold peeps dieAug 12 04:33
ThistleWebspecially when they cant afford medical careAug 12 04:34
DaemonFCwell, it's terrible, because 30 years ago, they revolted against the same things they're pushing on my generationAug 12 04:34
ThistleWebwhen their pension pot is raidedAug 12 04:34
DaemonFChow have they become so corrupt?Aug 12 04:34
ThistleWebpeeps change priorities as they growAug 12 04:35
ThistleWebwhen your young you take risksAug 12 04:35
DaemonFCthat'll be fun to watchAug 12 04:35
ThistleWebas you grow, get married, have kids, you need more securityAug 12 04:35
DaemonFCwhen Medicare tanks and you have millions of freeloaders asking why the government isn't buying THEIR medsAug 12 04:35
Will_I find it's less "The Republicans", than "the crazies on either far end---left or right"Aug 12 04:35
DaemonFCthat's only 5 years awayAug 12 04:35
DaemonFCunless they find a massive new source of funding, Medicare will start to collapseAug 12 04:35
ThistleWebWill_: under the Bush admin that was probs the case, since they had their peeps in power, they didnt have to be quite so mentalAug 12 04:36
DaemonFCMedicare and Social Security are like a giant balloonAug 12 04:36
DaemonFCand as more and more people stop blowing into the balloon and demanding what they put in back outAug 12 04:36
ThistleWebnow it's Satan in charge, they feel they need to whine about everything, and try ot derail everything Obama is trying to doAug 12 04:36
DaemonFCthe thing shrinks and deflates til there is nothing leftAug 12 04:37
ThistleWebso the mainstream republicans ARE the loudmouth looniesAug 12 04:37
DaemonFCthey're only worried about themselvesAug 12 04:37
DaemonFCthey don't care if Medicare and SS fall apart after they croakAug 12 04:37
ThistleWebonly now, more and more normal US peeps are seeing them for what they areAug 12 04:37
DaemonFCthat's all this is aboutAug 12 04:37
ThistleWeband wont go near themAug 12 04:37
ThistleWebthe internet has helped thatAug 12 04:38
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ThistleWeb8 yrs of Bush has helped thatAug 12 04:38
DaemonFCwell, yeah, not tuning to the AM band could have gotten you through the 90sAug 12 04:38
DaemonFCbut now they're spewing their crap everywhereAug 12 04:38
DaemonFCon every mediaAug 12 04:38
Will_Can't remember the last time I actually listened to an AM band.Aug 12 04:39
shreddarYou know neither of the 2 parties tend to generally care about the citizens of the country.Aug 12 04:39
DaemonFCthey're becoming harder to ignore, they'll force the majority to deal with themAug 12 04:39
DaemonFCsqueaky wheel gets the greaseAug 12 04:39
ThistleWebI saw a comment somewhere from when Bush was in power about "they control both houses, their party leader is President, why are they so angry all the time?"Aug 12 04:39
shreddarThey both tend to do more for Exxon and Dupont then to working class peopleAug 12 04:39
DaemonFCthe old Exxon guys that were using Christians to write letters demanding deregulation of energyAug 12 04:40
DaemonFCsame people are behind the healthcare protestsAug 12 04:40
DaemonFCand the Enron peopleAug 12 04:40
Will_Yeah.... didn't dereg work so well for Cali?Aug 12 04:40
DaemonFCyeah, led to rolling blackoutsAug 12 04:40
DaemonFCand triple the price for electricityAug 12 04:40
Will_my point exactlyAug 12 04:40
DaemonFCthanks Christians!Aug 12 04:40
shreddarYou're welcome :PAug 12 04:41
ThistleWebto be fair, religious peeps are used to being indoctinated, then fired up on a crusade and sent out to do the bidding of the bloke in a dress. They are already primed to be sent out on other missionsAug 12 04:41
DaemonFCwell, you know, these religious types are just pawns for big business anywayAug 12 04:41
DaemonFCso easily manipulated, how can you resist using their preacher as a well paid mouthpiece?Aug 12 04:41
Will_Though most of that was Enron playing games with the elec grid to boost profits.Aug 12 04:41
ThistleWebthey fall for all sorts of BS without even asking for proofAug 12 04:41
DaemonFCI know if I needed some isntant support and I had a million bucks to dump on a megachurchAug 12 04:42
DaemonFCwhere I'd put that moneyAug 12 04:42
ThistleWebthey are natural foot soldiersAug 12 04:42
ThistleWebthey are also primed to be selectively deaf when peeps point obvious flaws in the argumentAug 12 04:42
ThistleWebthey also work for free all hours of the day if the bloke in the dress tells them it's their religious dutyAug 12 04:43
DaemonFCMicrosoft should probably pay off Rick WarrenAug 12 04:43
DaemonFCthey could get a million more pro Microsoft supporters for pennies apieceAug 12 04:43
Will_not all of them check their brains at the door.  Though there do seem to be quite a lot of people that are as you sayAug 12 04:44
DaemonFCWill_: Too many of them, but not all Christians are actively harmful to societyAug 12 04:44
DaemonFCthe ones that are, oh boyAug 12 04:44
DaemonFCI mean there's some churches like the Episcopals that aren't out there bahing everyoneAug 12 04:45
DaemonFCkeep to themselvesAug 12 04:45
ThistleWebthe blokes in the dresses are well practiced in fending off awkward questions with stuff that sounds like answers, as well as using the power of peer pressure to sweep up those who would questionAug 12 04:45
DaemonFCsupport human rightsAug 12 04:45
DaemonFCand I can kind of respect them on a certain levelAug 12 04:45
DaemonFCI don't agree with them, but they aren't bothering meAug 12 04:45
DaemonFCthen there's the other end of the spectrum where you get the Southern BaptistsAug 12 04:46
ThistleWebnot only that, but religions get their power from the bloke is a dress being their gateway to God, please him and he'll put a good word in, displease him and he won'tAug 12 04:46
DaemonFCthey try to be as loud and obnoxious and hateful as they canAug 12 04:46
ThistleWebthe flock are indoctinated to WANT to please the bloke in the dressAug 12 04:46
ThistleWebeven if they dont fully believe himAug 12 04:46
ThistleWeba man of God wouldn't lie in God's houseAug 12 04:47
DaemonFCbut why does Jesus want his followers to deregulat energy in California?Aug 12 04:47
DaemonFC:DAug 12 04:47
DaemonFCWhat does God want with a starship?Aug 12 04:47
ThistleWebso he must be telling the truthAug 12 04:47
DaemonFCheheAug 12 04:47
Will_ThistleWeb : that's usually not how it goes, unless the bloke in the dress is an outright charlatain.Aug 12 04:47
ThistleWebeven if it is inplausable, so are the rest of the stories, but we accept them without question, rightAug 12 04:47
DaemonFCthere's this Hispanic guy that claims he *is* JesusAug 12 04:48
DaemonFCand has a million followersAug 12 04:48
DaemonFChe's down in FloridaAug 12 04:48
ThistleWebnobody fucks with da JesusAug 12 04:48
shreddarI think the "Christians" that you guys are referring to are politicians. It's a common mistake.Aug 12 04:48
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Will_I'm not saying stuff like that doesn't happen, just that when it happens, it isn't how it is supposed to work.Aug 12 04:48
ThistleWebthey're supposed to be celabite tooAug 12 04:49
Will_like most televangelists... ugh.Aug 12 04:49
ThistleWebplenty of alter boys found that's not trueAug 12 04:49
DaemonFCBill Maher interviewed the Mexican guy that claims he's JesusAug 12 04:50
DaemonFCon ReligillousAug 12 04:50
twitterWOW  stupid software patent blocks M$ from XML, OOXML, etc.Aug 12 04:50
Will_the celabacy thing varies from denomination to denomination.Aug 12 04:50
twitter-> In today's order, Judge Davis ruled that Microsoft should pay i4i an additional $40 million for its willful infringement of the i4i patent. Microsoft also was ordered to pay slightly more than $37 million in prejudgment interest, including an additional $21,102 per day until a final judgment is reached in the case. The court also ordered Microsoft to pay $144,060 per day until the date of final judgment for post-verdict damages. Aug 12 04:50
DaemonFCthe dude is rich, has a megachurch, and a million followersAug 12 04:50
twitter 12 04:50
twitterholy crackleAug 12 04:50
DaemonFCpeanutsAug 12 04:50
DaemonFC:DAug 12 04:51
Will_twitter : as I skim it, do it look like this affects ODF in any way?Aug 12 04:51
twitterThey can't sell or import Word into the USA.Aug 12 04:51
Will_excuse the typos tonightAug 12 04:51
twitterI have no idea, it's nutsAug 12 04:51
twitter-> Microsoft infringed the i4i patent issued in 1998, U.S. Patent No. 5,787,499, which covers software designed to manipulate "document architecture and content." The software covered by the patent removed the need for individual, manually embedded command codes to control text formatting in electronic documents.Aug 12 04:52
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DaemonFCwhoaAug 12 04:52
DaemonFCcoolAug 12 04:52
DaemonFCthis will make the news cycleAug 12 04:53
twitterI'm not sure what specific mechanism they claim.  If it's style sheets, there's plenty of prior art to keep them away from ODF.Aug 12 04:53
shreddarSo is it a Software patent they infringed on?Aug 12 04:53
Will_Today's permanent injunction prohibits Microsoft from selling or importing to the United States any Microsoft Word products that have the capability of opening .XML, .DOCX or DOCM files (XML files) containing custom XML. The court is requiring Microsoft to comply with the injunction within 60 days.Aug 12 04:53
Will_just as twitter said: no Word sales.Aug 12 04:54
DaemonFCtwitter: When they mention patents and TexasAug 12 04:54
twitterRight, I quoted that above.Aug 12 04:54
DaemonFCit reeks of patent trollAug 12 04:54
twitterOf course, it comes from Texas.  Judge Leonard Davis of the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Texas, Tyler Division.Aug 12 04:54
DaemonFCTexas law is friendly to patent trollsAug 12 04:54
DaemonFCso they file all their lawsuits thereAug 12 04:54
twitterNot being able to sell Word.  That should be amusing.Aug 12 04:55
shreddarWell it's only for 50 daysAug 12 04:56
DaemonFCthat will be funny as hell if this holds upAug 12 04:56
DaemonFCnot so funny if it backfires on OpenOfficeAug 12 04:56
Will_I looked for the time limit.  Where did it say that?  I saw that they had to comply within 60 days.Aug 12 04:57
DaemonFCit says permenant injunctionAug 12 04:57
DaemonFC:)Aug 12 04:57
shreddarOh I mean 60 dayAug 12 04:57
shreddarsAug 12 04:57
Will_That's what I thoughtAug 12 04:57
shreddarReally? It's permenent.Aug 12 04:58
Will_Wouldn't that kill OOXML for good?  Stake through it's heart, head cut off, and burned?Aug 12 04:58
ThistleWebwhere there's motivation and money to pay for lawyers?Aug 12 04:59
ThistleWebthey can't lose one of their cash cowsAug 12 04:59
shreddarWell they could just support their gimped ODFAug 12 04:59
ThistleWebthey'll fight, appeal where they can, or pay up and add the price onto other products so their customers end up paying itAug 12 05:00
Will_DaemonFC yeah, I thought about OpenOffice, but it looks like this is mostly about the docx and ooxml files.  It wouldn't be a great loss to OpenOffice to lose that format if the format itself dies.  Not like it sees much use anyway.  Too many people use the binary formats or odf.Aug 12 05:00
ThistleWebit would be funny if it turned out Windows itself was actually owned by someone else, and took MS to court with no intention of being paid off.....stop selling the productAug 12 05:01
ThistleWebwe dont want moneyAug 12 05:01
shreddarIf i4i did go after ODF distributers they'd get some serious dough.Aug 12 05:01
ThistleWebmany odf distributers dont have a lot of moneyAug 12 05:02
Will_well, I guess odf would fall under the xml part.  But MS is the biggest fish to fry for them.Aug 12 05:02
ThistleWeba lot of them are FOSS projectsAug 12 05:02
ThistleWeblawsuits go after peeps with money to settle big out of courtAug 12 05:03
cubezzzdidn't someone else make NT?Aug 12 05:03
ThistleWebso it wont come to a decisionAug 12 05:03
Will_I just can't see MS letting this stick.  They're too good at this sort of thing.Aug 12 05:03
ThistleWebWill_: of course they are, they swim in these waters all dayAug 12 05:03
shreddarNT came from OS/2 with IBM and MS worked on.Aug 12 05:03
ThistleWebthrow some FUD around, discredit a few peepsAug 12 05:04
ThistleWebhave some pre-planned studies to show the judgeAug 12 05:04
ThistleWebwhip up the foot soldiers to write petitionsAug 12 05:05
ThistleWebbusiness as usualAug 12 05:05
ThistleWeblitigation is just part of doing buisnessAug 12 05:05
shreddarNow NT might violate some patents but how many of those are legit/legal/realAug 12 05:05
ThistleWebmany they win because they're the big dog and nobody can afford to fight their allegationsAug 12 05:06
cubezzzI seem to remember something about DEC being involved with NTAug 12 05:06
ThistleWebsome they loseAug 12 05:06
ThistleWebI do wonder is that is in part why MS are so against anyone seeing their codeAug 12 05:06
ThistleWebthat it's not all theirsAug 12 05:07
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shreddar 12 05:07
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shreddarThere's some interesting comment on thereAug 12 05:07
ThistleWebnot to mention coders would see how badly some of it is put together, dispelling the myth of qualityAug 12 05:07
Will_Still, there is a small comfort.  The more MS tries to twist the patent system to suffocate everyone else, the bigger a target they make of themselvesAug 12 05:07
shreddarOneLove - ""Aug 12 05:07
ThistleWebthey've always been a targetAug 12 05:07
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ThistleWebanyone with money will beAug 12 05:08
shreddarOneLove - "eee-pcs-rumored-to-ship-with-moblin-in-october-chrome-os-on-the/"Aug 12 05:08
shreddarOneLove "I would just wipe it out and install windows 7 anywayz."Aug 12 05:08
shreddarPimp - "Cool another bullshit "linux on netbook" rumor!Nobody wants Linux (android,moblin,whromeOS etc) on a netbook if they can run Win7 on it!! Asus/acer etc should stop trying to re-negotiate your WinowsxP/7 licensing prices by leaking these stupid rumors. MS don't give a shit."Aug 12 05:09
ThistleWebhe did get one thing rightAug 12 05:10
ThistleWebMS really dont give a shitAug 12 05:10
cubezzzI'm sure Windows 7 will run great on a netbook, suurrrre :)Aug 12 05:10
ThistleWebalthough I;'m guessing his comment was about Acer and ASUS, not the unfortunate shmucks who dont have a choice but to use windowsAug 12 05:10
ThistleWebmaybe windows 7 will be the stoners choiceAug 12 05:11
ThistleWebif it's slow, it's mellowAug 12 05:11
DaemonFCwait a secondAug 12 05:11
ThistleWebwho needs that snappy jazz interfering with your buzzAug 12 05:11
DaemonFCWindows 7's Wordpad supports docxAug 12 05:11
DaemonFCso is that banned too?Aug 12 05:11
ThistleWebwhen it can start an app slowlyAug 12 05:12
ThistleWebsince when have MS obeyed a judges order?Aug 12 05:12
cubezzzWindows 7 isn't released yet is it?Aug 12 05:12
DaemonFCfinalizedAug 12 05:12
DaemonFCreleases on Oct 22Aug 12 05:12
Will_Just give it time.  If, on the off-chance Win7 is excellent, then at least those without OSX or Linux can take a small step away from the computing dark ages.  If Win7 is merely decent, it will be a large improvement over Vista and an acceptable path forward from XP.  If it is garbage like Vista... well, no amount of bribed bloggers will be able to save it.Aug 12 05:12
ThistleWebit'll get appealed, and if needed, paidAug 12 05:12
ThistleWebtheir releases wont be affectedAug 12 05:13
ThistleWebonly if they're having to pay out more cash or notAug 12 05:13
Will_Vista opened a lot of eyes.  They'll be wide awake watching 7.Aug 12 05:13
cubezzzStallman must have realized ages ago that the one with the source code is the one with the powerAug 12 05:13
shreddarSee the real customers of Windows are the OEMs.Aug 12 05:14
cubezzzso he changed the gameAug 12 05:14
shreddarAnd they already know the alternative thanks to EeePC.Aug 12 05:14
cubezzzso no source code = no thanksAug 12 05:14
ThistleWebwindows 8 is like the buildup of a fart, you can only guess before you let rip how pungent the smell will beAug 12 05:14
ThistleWeb7*Aug 12 05:14
cubezzzI'm sure all the bugs will be fixed in Windows 8 :)Aug 12 05:15
Will_shreddar : the OEMs probably also know how badly Vista clogged up their inventory.Aug 12 05:15
ThistleWebas much as you believe and hope it will be all gas, you never know if you're gonna let go something solid that will hang aroundAug 12 05:16
shreddarAlso smartphones are starting to become comparable to PCs nowAug 12 05:16
shreddarIt's only a matter of time 'till people with smartphones outnumber people with PCsAug 12 05:17
cubezzzI think Gates even ripped off someone's code for basicAug 12 05:18
ThistleWeb2 things are gonna make it harder for MS this time roundAug 12 05:18
Will_the phones never started out beholden to MS, and they probably won't let it get that wayAug 12 05:18
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ThistleWebthey have never been rebuffed before on a mass scale like vistaAug 12 05:18
ThistleWebso they not only overspent on production, but they never got a fraction of the return on itAug 12 05:18
ThistleWebso they'll hike windows 7 pricing to make that upAug 12 05:19
ThistleWebwhich makes windows 7 even more expensiveAug 12 05:19
ThistleWebin a recession, where peeps feel xp is enoughAug 12 05:19
ThistleWebpeeps are already tightening their beltsAug 12 05:19
ThistleWebif that wasn;t enough, linux is really coming of ageAug 12 05:20
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ThistleWebI doubt windows 7 will tempt manyAug 12 05:20
ThistleWebI dont think it has any real reasons to upgradeAug 12 05:20
ThistleWebfor peeps witha perfectly fucntional xpAug 12 05:20
Will_where _do_ the OEMs stand in all this?  On the one hand, any hardware that goes out the door makes money for them, and Linux lets them pocket the MS tax if they want.  So you'd think they would want hardware going out the door no matter the OS or lack thereof.  But then MS twists their arm so much with money and intimidation.  So who's side are they really on?Aug 12 05:21
ThistleWebOEMs like MSAug 12 05:21
ThistleWebwell, not likeAug 12 05:21
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ThistleWebbut they want peeps buying windowsAug 12 05:21
ThistleWebwindows keeps the customer coming back for repairsAug 12 05:21
ThistleWebit makes sure the new pc is broken in a couple of years so they'll be back to buy a new oneAug 12 05:22
ThistleWebit lets them sell all sorts of software, including security softwareAug 12 05:22
ThistleWeblinux cuts off a lot of that revinueAug 12 05:22
ThistleWebwhen your PC comes with everything the average user needs already installed, or available in a repoAug 12 05:23
ThistleWebnot to mention it's secure from windows malware from the get goAug 12 05:23
ThistleWebit dont need defraggingAug 12 05:23
shreddarYeah they still havent come out with that new filling system eitherAug 12 05:23
ThistleWebit's in the customers interests to use linux, but the OEMs interests to sell them windowsAug 12 05:23
Will_true.  people don't seem to like it when I advocate for exactly those reasons.  Keep the money in the local IT infrastrucure and out of the big box stores and multinationals.Aug 12 05:24
ThistleWebnot to mention the minor mrofits they make from the sale of each windows or office licenceAug 12 05:24
shreddarI don't think most customer even know what Linux isAug 12 05:24
ThistleWebprofits*Aug 12 05:24
Will_they don'tAug 12 05:24
shreddarOr a OS for that matterAug 12 05:24
shreddarThey just want a computer to get them on the internet and play music for the most partAug 12 05:25
Will_we need marketing.  Word of mouth is much more powerful, but slower.  We need it more, but we need a little marketing too.Aug 12 05:25
ThistleWebhardware wise, EVERYTHING works with windowsAug 12 05:25
cubezzzpeople are using Linux, it's just very hard to say what percentageAug 12 05:25
cubezzzThistleWeb, that's not true, come onAug 12 05:26
ThistleWebvendors know it's commecrial suicide not to have windows driversAug 12 05:26
Will_hardware wise EVERYONE provides drivers for windows.  Fixed that for youAug 12 05:26
cubezzzlots of win95 era stuff no longer runs on new windowsAug 12 05:26
ThistleWebcurrent windowsAug 12 05:26
Will_rightAug 12 05:26
ThistleWebright now, thats like 2000, xp, vistaAug 12 05:26
shreddarbusiness on the other hand want to be able to handle clients and costomersAug 12 05:26
ThistleWebsoon it'll drop 2000Aug 12 05:26
cubezzzmy Hp 5200C scanner doesn't run under "new" windowsAug 12 05:26
cubezzzworks perfect on LinuxAug 12 05:27
Will_they can keep the win drivers coming, just include OSX and Linux too.Aug 12 05:27
ThistleWebif you have a currently supported windows, any hardware you buy will have a driver for itAug 12 05:27
Will_But yeah, as much as I go on about that, I haven't had any problems with Linux except on the junkiest of hardware.Aug 12 05:27
cubezzzthat's just not trueAug 12 05:27
ThistleWebwith linux, bsd or apple it may say it, it may not. It may have a driver, it may not, it may not need oneAug 12 05:27
ThistleWebit may have some chipset that relies on windows to cpmplete it's function, like a winmodemAug 12 05:28
shreddarYeah drivers and application are a big issue with non-window PCsAug 12 05:28
cubezzzthat's only true of _new_ hardware, not older used hardwareAug 12 05:28
shreddarmostly drivers thoughAug 12 05:28
cubezzzand there's tons of used hardware on ebay nowadaysAug 12 05:29
ThistleWebthe latest video card will work with the latest windows from day oneAug 12 05:29
ThistleWebit wont be released otherwiseAug 12 05:29
ThistleWebit may take a lil while before someone outside the vendor gets it working for non-Windows platformsAug 12 05:29
Will_OSX has the same problem in a larger measure, they just sidestep it by being such a closed system.  Everything is provided by Apple.Aug 12 05:29
ThistleWebthe point is, for OEMs they dont have to worry about compatibility when building systems to sellAug 12 05:30
ThistleWebif they install windowsAug 12 05:30
shreddarThat's why people like macsAug 12 05:30
shreddareverything is made to work by designAug 12 05:30
Will_it is a valid point.Aug 12 05:30
ThistleWebthey can pick and choose hardware knowing it will work with windowsAug 12 05:30
ThistleWebFOSS peeps have to be more choosey, pay attention to the spec sheet, rely on word of mouth and sometimes buy on blind hopeAug 12 05:31
shreddarNot everything will alway work on Windows either some require a specific version.Aug 12 05:31
shreddarIt means some older scanner have to be thrown out.Aug 12 05:31
shreddarscannersAug 12 05:32
ThistleWebsanza mp3 players play ogg, but dont say so in the spec sheet, they also play nice with linux apparently but also neglect to mention that in the specAug 12 05:32
cubezzzI can sign up to a dev group and get hardware programming specs, otherwise I don't buyAug 12 05:32
Will_ideally, we would have a roughly 30% mix of MS, Apple, and Linux.  Then there would be good drivers for all on day one.Aug 12 05:32
shreddarMy major issues with driver comes from wireless adapters.Aug 12 05:33
Will_But that said, I'm sure the hardware makers like one OS being dominant because then they can only write one set of drivers.Aug 12 05:33
shreddarThey don't allways work and even if they do some of the functionality with be missingAug 12 05:33
ThistleWebwhat Linux / FOSS does have in it's favour, is that after a device has been made to work with an open source driver, it will always be available for whatever distro you use. You wont have to buy a new device just because your device maker aint gonna make a driver for your new WindowsAug 12 05:33
Will_shreddar : avoid broadcomm like the black plague.Aug 12 05:34
cubezzzwhat? why throw out a scanner??Aug 12 05:34
ThistleWebso Linux has a larger range of hardware available to it, which will only growAug 12 05:34
cubezzzjust because it doesn't work with windows?Aug 12 05:34
cubezzzI'd reverse-engineer before I did thatAug 12 05:34
shreddarI wish the're be like a open standard Driver API or something.Aug 12 05:35
Will_case in point, aren't some of the newer PCs preloaded with Vista starting to make it near impossible to find XP drivers for some of their hardware?Aug 12 05:36
cubezzzall you need is the hardware documentationAug 12 05:36
cubezzzmost of the time, if you are very persistent you can get that from the manufacturerAug 12 05:36
ThistleWebyeah, all those vendors who are paranoid about protecting their IP will willingly hand over thatAug 12 05:37
Will_under a mountain of NDAs, if you are even that lucky.Aug 12 05:37
cubezzzcheck their ftps first :)Aug 12 05:37
ThistleWebplenty of FOSS driver devs have volunteered to build drivers under conditions, and the companies for whatever reason aint interestedAug 12 05:37
ThistleWebeither they see Linux as a nothing marketAug 12 05:38
ThistleWebor they get some kickback from MS to ignore usAug 12 05:38
Will_Man, if only FOSS had an "Apple" hardware company.Aug 12 05:38
ThistleWebor they agree with MS, and ally their buisness with windowsAug 12 05:38
cubezzzok, so then some very dedicated people will reverse-engineer stuff if it is absolutely necessaryAug 12 05:38
cubezzzdepends on your willpowerAug 12 05:38
ThistleWebbblAug 12 05:39
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cubezzzHp 4470C took 5 years, but it was done, and I use it under LinuxAug 12 05:39
cubezzzreverse-engineer jobAug 12 05:39
cubezzzyes, it is difficultAug 12 05:40
shreddarWill yeas a linux base hardware company could be good.Aug 12 05:42
shreddarI think that Apple could've used linux easily.Aug 12 05:42
Will_But why haven't we seen one yet?  Linux not yet ready?  IP troll hassles?  Too high a probability that MS would choke them off or buy them out?Aug 12 05:43
shreddarThey'd still be able to keep thier API's and Windows system perprietaryAug 12 05:43
Will_shreddar : IIRC, Apple considered using Linux for the iphone, and it would have been easier to do, but Jobs insisted that they use OSX instead.Aug 12 05:44
shreddarI was saying the OSX could've used Linux instead of their Mach/BSD hybridAug 12 05:44
shreddarAs far as the other stuff they could've keep most of it the same.Aug 12 05:45
shreddarApple needs to have control over the stuff that make their computers different.Aug 12 05:46
Will_could have, but Apple isn't exactly a friend of openness.  In many respects, they are worst than MS about that.  Fortunately, they limit themselves and produce quality products.Aug 12 05:46
shreddarApple has a huge incentive to keep themselves closed as far as their OS and Applications are concerned.Aug 12 05:48
Will_hey, it works well for them, and they haven't screwed up too badly yet.Aug 12 05:48
shreddarThey compete against other computer companies. If they opensourced it there stuff then Dell and HP would build cheaper macs.Aug 12 05:49
Will_well, I'm talking more about openness in terms of interoperability.Aug 12 05:50
Will_they like being a "walled garden"Aug 12 05:51
shreddarYeah that is unessary for them.Aug 12 05:51
shreddarAll they have to do is bundle good Apps with it and it'll sell.Aug 12 05:52
shreddarSince only they provide them they'd have a advantage.Aug 12 05:52
shreddarBecause I don't think people really but them for their 3rd party AppsAug 12 05:53
shreddarWell you can't expect them to be smart like me though.Aug 12 05:54
shreddarThey'd get browny points and make their platform more attractive.Aug 12 05:55
Will_Their platform is fairly attactive as it is, in a sense.  Apple is nothing if not stylish.Aug 12 05:56
shreddarThat's true I meant for developers though.Aug 12 05:58
Will_oh, right.  Yeah.  Developers is something they do need to work on.  The Iphone isn't winning man brownie points at the moment.Aug 12 05:58
shreddarIt's like with browsers all of the browsers except IE are heavily using web standard.Aug 12 05:59
Will_not with seemingly arbitary and sometimes changing rules about what gets Apple's blessing and what doesn't.Aug 12 05:59
Will_and really what I just said goes back to the openness thing too.Aug 12 05:59
shreddarYeah they are losing a lot of brownies there.Aug 12 06:00
shreddarCompanies just have this very perverse aditude towards controls that really pisses on consumers.Aug 12 06:01
Will_too true.Aug 12 06:02
Will_You'd think after so many years of having the Internet and the things that came from it, they'd understand the power and value of the community.Aug 12 06:03
Will_The community can't always be so tightly controlled, but it can produce some amazing things, which more often than not lift all boats.Aug 12 06:04
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Will_Part of the problem is that with the technologies of the last 10-15 years, consumers are becoming producers as well.  No longer just passive wallets.Aug 12 06:06
Will_well, gotta goAug 12 06:07
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shreddarSee yaAug 12 06:08
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*shreddar gonna watch lostAug 12 06:08
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schestowitzSome new data is out. Unemployment here climbed to 10.5 million (15-year high), which leads to rise in drug and alcohol use, increased domestic violence etc. The banks are still doing OK, unlike the public sector for instance.Aug 12 07:12
schestowitzRe XML patents, that firm sued Microsoft before. It's slightly old news, sortaAug 12 07:13
schestowitzEwwwwww.. Nokia and Microsoft are doing it again. 12 07:21
schestowitzMicrosoft Watch is also spreading more Bong buzz. Like the Seattle P-I, it just became a PR blogAug 12 07:22
schestowitzMay Jo Foley passed the very same talking points about Bong. it must be coming from the VoleAug 12 07:24
schestowitz Vulnerability affects all major browsers < >Aug 12 07:33
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DaemonFCwell, my router had a strokeAug 12 07:35
DaemonFCuggghAug 12 07:35
schestowitz "Yes the wide range of different linux versions are a drawback for Linux. And in my opinion, keeping the masses of adopting it."Aug 12 07:37
schestowitzThis is a fallacy.Aug 12 07:37
MinceRindeed.Aug 12 07:37
schestowitzWithout control, choice and new efforts, there would be no FOSSAug 12 07:37
schestowitzPeople dabble in it /because/ they want this sort of fragmentation.Aug 12 07:38
schestowitzWIthout it, what is the essence of source code?Aug 12 07:38
DaemonFCLinksys makes some shoddy equipmentAug 12 07:38
schestowitz"hey, here, it's free software, GPL, you can fork, BUT.... DON'T!! You have to comply with the UniversalLinux(R)"Aug 12 07:38
DaemonFCit's really hard to fork any reasonably popular GPL software anywayAug 12 07:39
schestowitzYou canAug 12 07:39
DaemonFCin theoryAug 12 07:39
schestowitzJust not undertake or overtakeAug 12 07:39
schestowitzUerbaseAug 12 07:39
DaemonFCyou'd have to hope enough other people were disguisted enough by the original projects direction to join youAug 12 07:39
schestowitzOr have money, like M ShuttleworthAug 12 07:40
DaemonFCDebian has had problems with unpredictable release periodsAug 12 07:40
DaemonFCcorporate users don't like thatAug 12 07:40
DaemonFChe is hitting them with a good complaintAug 12 07:40
DaemonFCunpredictable release periods, bureaucratic infighting, a terrible voting process for project leaderAug 12 07:42
DaemonFCthese could all be fixedAug 12 07:42
MinceRwell, linksys is fiasco systems.... what did you expect from them? :>Aug 12 07:42
MinceRif you want predictable release periods, use ubuntuAug 12 07:42
DaemonFCthen you end up with other problems that are just as badAug 12 07:43
MinceRindeedAug 12 07:43
DaemonFCI'm not sating I agree with his "takeover bid"Aug 12 07:43
DaemonFC*sayingAug 12 07:43
MinceRpredictable release periods come at a costAug 12 07:43
DaemonFCevery 6 months means that you have to ship everything as is every 6 monthsAug 12 07:43
DaemonFCand hope there's nothing major you have to sweep under the rug yourselfAug 12 07:44
MinceRmy point exactlyAug 12 07:44
MinceRi'm not really convinced that release schedules do any good to software developmentAug 12 07:44
DaemonFCdoesn't Suse give themselves some slackAug 12 07:44
DaemonFClike "every 6-8 months"?Aug 12 07:44
MinceRfeature freeze+release when it's done would be a lot better imoAug 12 07:45
DaemonFCyeah, Debian almost never releases with serious bugsAug 12 07:45
DaemonFCI've ran into quirks, but no showstoppersAug 12 07:45
DaemonFCI almost always hit something major in every Ubuntu releaseAug 12 07:46
DaemonFCand they know about it, and they'll say wait til next timeAug 12 07:46
MinceRstill, you do have the option to go for predictable release periods if you want to.Aug 12 07:48
DaemonFCit would be nice, I think, to just go after some kind of self contained, instant-on "system in a box" next timeAug 12 07:48
DaemonFCthan end up with 500 pounds of equipment and three sozen wiresAug 12 07:48
DaemonFCI'm still sweating from reassembling this beastAug 12 07:49
amarsh04At the moment there is still a fair bit of work getting some KDE 3.X apps running in KDE 4.X (Quanta, Rosegarden...)Aug 12 07:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ubuntu gets new appearance: Artwork Incoming Karmic Boot Demo < >Aug 12 07:50
schestowitzI unbroke my ubuntu < >Aug 12 07:52
DaemonFChmmm, well, it's less ugly anywayAug 12 07:52
schestowitzMandriva has no showstoppers (for me) and it's a 6-month cycleAug 12 07:53
schestowitzNERD ALERT: Broadcom 43xx wireless on FreeBSD 7 < >. PC-BSD looks very modern compared to Mac OS X now that it has KDE4Aug 12 07:54
DaemonFCI've been saying thatAug 12 07:55
DaemonFCand it's had KDE 4 for a whileAug 12 07:55
schestowitz4.3Aug 12 07:58
schestowitzLooks more refinedAug 12 07:58
schestowitzOxygen+Plasma reworkedAug 12 07:58
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] There's still some chance of IBM buying Red Hat, but it's doubtful cause IBM uses a lot of SUSE and AIX. 12 07:58
*schestowitz uses Oxygen in kde3Aug 12 07:59
DaemonFCno visible meteors yetAug 12 07:59
DaemonFC:PAug 12 07:59
schestowitzSo Microsoft's BOng was a FAILAug 12 07:59
schestowitzNow they can only wait for their 'bought' market from Yahoo! the zombieAug 12 07:59
DaemonFCalmost nobody uses Yahoo unless their ISP hijacks them theirAug 12 08:00
schestowitzRelocation to another brand -> just $100m+ spentAug 12 08:00
DaemonFCmost people install their ISPs software not realizing you don't have toAug 12 08:00
DaemonFCand that kind of shit happensAug 12 08:00
DaemonFCnew (IE-based) browserAug 12 08:00
DaemonFC:DAug 12 08:00
schestowitzThe shills (aka marketers) from Microsoft tried to make it seem like GOogle was doomedAug 12 08:01
schestowitzSo much invested, so little in terms of resultsAug 12 08:01
schestowitzMicrosoft will die on the WebAug 12 08:01
schestowitzThey are NOT EVEN SURE how to charge for online OfficeAug 12 08:01
schestowitzGoogle gives it for freeAug 12 08:01
DaemonFCit turns out that even with IE uninstalled, applications can still use the control that embeds its layout engineAug 12 08:01
schestowitzTHey'll kill their cash cow either way, and they know itAug 12 08:01
DaemonFCsome Winamp skins load that control for a "mini browser"Aug 12 08:02
schestowitzAnyway, let's do some Linux newsAug 12 08:02
schestowitzMostly good news this weekAug 12 08:02
DaemonFChmmm, these KDE reviews are starting to get as ludicrous as Mac reviews as wellAug 12 08:04
DaemonFC 12 08:04
DaemonFC"KDE release adds 2,000 features"Aug 12 08:04
schestowitzIt's greats stuff. to carry on to kde5Aug 12 08:06
DaemonFCyeah, where is the average person going to see "2,000" features? and what is a "feature"?Aug 12 08:06
DaemonFCMac plays fast and loose with the definition to inflate the countAug 12 08:07
DaemonFC 12 08:11
DaemonFChehAug 12 08:11
DaemonFC 12 08:11
DaemonFCLinux Vendor Settles With MicrosoftAug 12 08:11
DaemonFCI must have missed thatAug 12 08:11
schestowitzMelco?Aug 12 08:13
DaemonFCyeahAug 12 08:14
DaemonFCthey apparently own BuffaloAug 12 08:14
schestowitzMicrosoft sued themAug 12 08:14
schestowitzAcc. to Processor.comAug 12 08:14
schestowitzMicrosoft=SCOAug 12 08:14
schestowitzGive them another 5 years until bankruptcy :-pAug 12 08:14
DaemonFCyeah, SCO mentioned they plan to continue their IBM lawsuitAug 12 08:14
DaemonFCwhat part about having lost don't they get?Aug 12 08:15
DaemonFCyeah, SCO got some settlementsAug 12 08:16
DaemonFCat firstAug 12 08:16
DaemonFCI think Microsoft wants to keep this out of the court systemAug 12 08:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why the Command Line Interface in GNU/Linux is Ahead of the Rest 12 08:16
DaemonFC 12 08:18
DaemonFCFUD spreaderAug 12 08:18
schestowitzYes, Melco was secretiveAug 12 08:18
schestowitzOthers tooAug 12 08:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ideas for Marketing GNU/Linux 12 08:18
schestowitzThey threat and hope for settlementAug 12 08:19
schestowitzIn TomTom's case they also go beyond C&DAug 12 08:19
schestowitzBullies.Aug 12 08:19
schestowitzThey promoted Horacio.Aug 12 08:19
schestowitzTo SVP IIRCAug 12 08:19
schestowitzDaemonFC: yes, seen that, ignored itAug 12 08:19
schestowitzPaul is being silly againAug 12 08:19
schestowitzTabloidismAug 12 08:19
DaemonFCTomTom GPS devices are goign on the cheap at NeweggAug 12 08:20
DaemonFCimpossibly cheapAug 12 08:20
DaemonFCit's some kind of blowout sale they're having, thought about buying oneAug 12 08:20
DaemonFChmmm, I never did get my Oracle Linux discAug 12 08:21
schestowitzUnbreakable?Aug 12 08:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google -- with Market Value Almost on Par with Microsoft's -- Uses GNU/Linux Against Windows 12 08:23
DaemonFCyeahAug 12 08:24
DaemonFCI know it's just another RHEL clone thoughAug 12 08:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Desktop Shop System76 Expands Products Line 12 08:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] One of Largest Clusters of Servers in the World Runs GNU/Linux 12 08:28
DaemonFCtoo bad they went with NvidiaAug 12 08:30
DaemonFCI'm kind of questioning whether I will againAug 12 08:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Penguin Computing Expands to Supercomputing with GNU/Linux 12 08:31
DaemonFCthey all work with Windows, but Nvidia is the only one that still has real trouble in Linux or FreeBSD without their binary driverAug 12 08:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Kernel Space Gets Mode-Setting Overlay 12 08:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Bdale Garbee Speaks Linux 12 08:32
DaemonFCthey've made every excuse you can think of for not opening their specs or releasing codeAug 12 08:33
DaemonFCI wonder how many OEMs will design Windows 7 Starter Edition-based craptopsAug 12 08:35
DaemonFC10" screen and all thatAug 12 08:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Scribus 1.3.5 is Released 12 08:37
DaemonFC 12 08:40
DaemonFC:)Aug 12 08:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Slack Mini Server 1.4.5 is Officially Released 12 08:43
fewaslashdot junk 12 08:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 2 New Reviews of PCLinuxOS 2009.2 I used it and loved it.Aug 12 08:45
schestowitzSlashdot feeds such trolsAug 12 08:46
schestowitzThat's why I don't read /,.Aug 12 08:46
fewaLots of companies are moving _towards_ the GPLAug 12 08:46
schestowitzAnd watch the headlineAug 12 08:46
schestowitzTypical SlashdumbAug 12 08:46
fewaThey have sold outAug 12 08:46
schestowitzfewa: of courseAug 12 08:46
schestowitzBlack Duck (of Microsoft roots) do the sameAug 12 08:46
schestowitzSee page tooAug 12 08:46
fewaRed Hat is friggen S&P 500Aug 12 08:46
schestowitzEditor's NoteAug 12 08:46
schestowitzfewa: best to bury /.Aug 12 08:46
schestowitzTHey don't correct themselvesAug 12 08:46
schestowitzAnd they link to a person who is admittedly GPL-hostileAug 12 08:47
schestowitzMicrosoft has this new anti-GPL campaignAug 12 08:47
schestowitzAssisted by some other minionsAug 12 08:47
schestowitzLike ACCESS et alAug 12 08:47
schestowitzAuthor finds one company that rejected the GPL, and then started the article that mwatches preconception and plan: "GPL is dead dead dying"Aug 12 08:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Red Hat Turns 10 in Wall Street Future Looks Bright 12 08:50
schestowitzfewa: on the bright side, GPL FUD is _not_ news. It has gone on for like... forever. A lot of capable people will ignore and judge for themselves, but to illegitimise agenda-filled puppets is importantAug 12 08:51
schestowitzMicrosoft even paid academic to smear the GPLAug 12 08:52
schestowitz*AcademicsAug 12 08:52
fewaand then the lead for this is very POV 12 08:52
fewaa sort of smear of EFFAug 12 08:53
schestowitzThey're used to itAug 12 08:53
schestowitzI remember when PJ said she was happy lxer was getting less attentionAug 12 08:54
schestowitzWell, the same goes for /. nowAug 12 08:54
fewaslashdot needs to make +/- for stories publicAug 12 08:55
schestowitzIt won't helpAug 12 08:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Comes to OL&T, More Government Contracts 12 08:55
schestowitzSlashdot gets flooded by PR agentsAug 12 08:56
fewawell thats obviouysAug 12 08:56
schestowitzIncluding the likes of Wong that strike BN (Microosft "TEs")Aug 12 08:56
schestowitzIt's their job to control mind shareAug 12 08:56
schestowitz"Mind Control: To control mental output you have to control mental input.  Take control of the channels by which developers receive information, then they can only think about the things you tell them.  Thus, you control mindshare!" 12 08:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Nokia N900 is Coming , the Future of Linux at Nokia Seems a Lot Brighter ...Aug 12 09:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Many LiMo Phones (Linux) Coming from Panasonic and NEC 12 09:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Boring, long @nytimes article on Wikipedia photos, slanders, ridicules 800-pound gorilla of free content copyright. 12 09:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Phones (Android) from Dell and Motorola 12 09:07
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] OLPC Still Alive with GNU/Linux 12 09:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Sub-notebooks with GNU/Linux Might Come from Sony Ericsson 12 09:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Review of PC-BSD 7.1 with Beautiful KDE4 12 09:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft's Business Model Crushed by Free Software 12 09:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Drupal 7 is Coming 12 09:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why Business with Free Software Trumps the Old Model 12 09:16
twitter(08:56:33 PM) twitter: -> In today's order, Judge Davis ruled that Microsoft should pay i4i an additional $40 million for its willful infringement of the i4i patent. Microsoft also was ordered to pay slightly more than $37 million in prejudgment interest, including an additional $21,102 per day until a final judgment is reached in the case. The court also ordered Microsoft to pay $144,060 per day until the date of final judgment forAug 12 09:18
twitter(08:56:55 PM) twitter: 12 09:18
twitter:) Patent trolls may finally put an end to Word attachments.Aug 12 09:19
DaemonFCtwitter: Why are you posting that again?Aug 12 09:20
DaemonFCdid something new happen?Aug 12 09:21
DaemonFCyou know it will just end with them paying a ton of money to the patent troll to make it go awayAug 12 09:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] U.C. Berkeley Embraces Free Software Ethos 12 09:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] FSF Commends Dailymotion for Ogg Support 12 09:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] @schestowitz U.C. Berkeley has a long history of free softwareAug 12 09:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] UK Government Groks Transparency? 12 09:30
twitterBlackwater fun 12 09:33
twitterDeath threat fun 12 09:34
Ngheh, scientes does kinda have a point there schestowitz, Berkeley has been in the open source game about as long as it's possible to have been in it ;)Aug 12 09:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Censorship in Yemen Assisted by the West 12 09:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Hit by the McKool Smith Patent Troll 12 09:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Acacia (with Microsoft Connections) Still Harrasses Linux 12 09:35
schestowitzNg: yes, bad wordingAug 12 09:37
schestowitzI know about their past contribsAug 12 09:37
schestowitzIncluding the whole BSD thingAug 12 09:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Many New Remotely Exploitable Microsoft Holes 12 09:38
NgAug 12 09:39
Ngerr, oopsAug 12 09:39
Ngschestowitz: :)Aug 12 09:40
NghmmAug 12 09:40
Ngthe internets says the patent in that i4i thing was withdrawnAug 12 09:40
schestowitzIt's old news, no?Aug 12 09:41
schestowitzMay/JuneAug 12 09:41
schestowitzBut the McKool troll I saw a few weeks agoAug 12 09:41
schestowitzThose lawyervators are busyAug 12 09:41
twitter->  The Order and Permanent Injunction were signed today by Judge Leonard Davis of the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Texas, Tyler Division. Today's ruling follows a May 20, 2009, verdict of $200 million after jurors found that Redmond, Wash.-based Microsoft willfully infringed an i4i patent covering a document system that relies on the XML custom formatting function.Aug 12 09:45
twitterToday was August 11Aug 12 09:45
schestowitz 12 09:45
fewatwitter, the world's largest mercenary armyAug 12 09:45
twitterPermanent Injunction is against the sale of M$ Word.Aug 12 09:45
fewaand a horribly expensive, corrupt, and ineffective one at thatAug 12 09:45
twitterThey can't sell or import Word to any place in the US.Aug 12 09:45
fewaJust think of the moral effect of having soldier see contractor see people getting paid 3x as muchAug 12 09:46
fewaThe effect on the hearts and minds on Iraqis when blackwater smuggles in Filipinos instead on employing local IraqisAug 12 09:47
schestowitzThis one's funny.. makes fun of GWB too: 12 09:47
fewaAnd in spike of huge unemployeementAug 12 09:47
fewa*spiteAug 12 09:47
fewaStiglitz on Iraq 12 09:49
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @scientes yes, noam cohen of #nyt seems to have turned into a page-hit troll concerning #wikipedia of late. most unfortunate.Aug 12 10:29
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] i can't see how this could possibly fail to work out well and produce great results all round (HT @jzcatrandom)Aug 12 10:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz seen this? 12 10:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] @davidgerard Article appeared on the front page of C sect. This screed is not only online (sans #nyt breaking 301), but in print.Aug 12 10:38
schestowitzUrgentAug 12 10:40
schestowitzCan you reach BN?Aug 12 10:40
schestowitzOK, it's back :-)Aug 12 10:42
schestowitzSite upgraded to latest WordPress Aug 12 10:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard: ACK, incoming.Aug 12 11:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] rt @woosang mad l33t sk1llz 12 11:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz doesn't take effect for 60 days, MSFT will certainly get it overturned. but amusing nevertheless!Aug 12 11:16
schestowitz 12 11:16
schestowitzJust 200?Aug 12 11:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @scientes i know, i know. it's pissed off a *lot* of people.Aug 12 11:19
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schestowitzNucleus phone 12 11:29
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz for your interest, a view from inside MSFT 12 12:19
schestowitz"The on-again, off-again slugfest between Apple and Hackintosher Psystar has taken yet another turn - and this one puts the feisty Floridians in a bit of a bind." 12 12:22
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard : far too much praise. It's like a Microsoft advert.Aug 12 12:27
schestowitz"Buried deep in the latest US Bureau of Labor Statistics employment report is a startling statistic: Employment in the computer industry is on the rise." 12 12:27
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schestowitzWordPress bug turns blogs into puppets < >Aug 12 12:28
schestowitz'"Hasty coding?" he asks. "Why take the blacklist vs. whitelist approach?"'Aug 12 12:28
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schestowitz 12 12:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz as the comments on minimsft show, it's like a cult. they are convinced they are the good guys, and never mind the evidence.Aug 12 12:30
schestowitz"As a result, the first account without a key in the database (usually the admin account) would have its password reset and a new password would be emailed to the account owner. This doesn’t allow remote access, but it is very annoying."Aug 12 12:30
schestowitzNot s serious, justa  nuisanceAug 12 12:30
schestowitz 12 12:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard: yes, "OMG. we innova~1 FAR TOO much!!11" Also see JamesP TE notes on "We're the Good Guys!"Aug 12 12:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard: Microsoft pretends to be the proponent of IPv6, but watch this: 12 12:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Is Vista THAT much to be embarrassed of? ("Best Buy demos Dell netbook running... Mac OS X")Aug 12 12:37
schestowitz'He once again blamed Twitter for “stacking” the tiny URL biz “overwhelmingly in’s favour”.' < >Aug 12 12:37
trmanco 12 12:37
trmancohahahahaAug 12 12:37
trmancono more wordAug 12 12:37
schestowitzI know.Aug 12 12:37
schestowitzBut see aboveAug 12 12:37
schestowitzScroll upAug 12 12:37
schestowitztrmanco: the WP flaw is not seriousAug 12 12:37
schestowitzI was patching in a hurry, in vainAug 12 12:37
*Ng wonders why none of these stories about i4i have mentioned that the patent has been withdrawnAug 12 12:38
trmanconot reallyAug 12 12:38
Ngsurely that has some bearing in the case?Aug 12 12:38
trmancobut it is a flawAug 12 12:38
schestowitzJust as Nokia moved to more Linux there's this great shame: 12 12:38
schestowitztrmanco: I'd call it more of a bug...Aug 12 12:38
schestowitzAssuming admins have their mail address itAug 12 12:39
schestowitzit's a human labour DDOSAug 12 12:39
trmancoyeah, but the crappy thing is that people can reset your password and it could be frustratingAug 12 12:39
schestowitzYou can be knocked off WP until you decide to patchAug 12 12:39
schestowitzThe site caries on serving without issuesAug 12 12:39
trmancosomebody tries to loginAug 12 12:40
schestowitztrmanco: yes, not so critical thoughAug 12 12:40
trmancomediumAug 12 12:40
schestowitzA lot of systems are vulnerable to something similar, including bank account and SSH and there isn't a limitless login attempt quotaAug 12 12:42
schestowitzThis is reason to keep one's user_id secret.Aug 12 12:43
schestowitz /there/where/Aug 12 12:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google makes an announcement about search and the MSBBC uses it to advertise Microsoft Bong [sic]. How typical. 12 12:46
schestowitzzoobab01: good writeup: 12 12:48
schestowitz (Whitepaper zur Interoperabilität von OOXML und ODF)Aug 12 12:49
schestowitzThere's lots about the XML rulingAug 12 12:50
trmancoschestowitz, update to wordpress is already availableAug 12 12:56
trmanco 12 12:57
schestowitzI'll approach the McKool story from another truthful angleAug 12 12:57
schestowitztrmanco: yes, In know. I patched it within hoursAug 12 12:58
trmancoah okAug 12 12:58
schestowitz wget 12 12:58
schestowitzunzip wordpress-2.8.4.ziAug 12 12:59
schestowitz rm wp-config-sample.phpAug 12 12:59
schestowitz rm -rf wp-content/Aug 12 12:59
schestowitzcp -r * ~/public_htmlAug 12 12:59
schestowitz==Aug 12 12:59
schestowitzOn another server auto-update works, which makes patching simplerAug 12 13:00
schestowitzOn another blog (a third one) I get no notification that a new version is available !Aug 12 13:00
schestowitzI tried to cruise around a bit, but could get it to show that auto-update is available. Either a bug or some caching maybe, failing to show that a new(er) version is out thereAug 12 13:01
trmancomsn bot are making searches nowAug 12 13:01
trmancomsn bots*Aug 12 13:01
schestowitzWindows bots too. AlwaysAug 12 13:01
schestowitzLinux users need to block many ports cause of thatAug 12 13:02
schestowitzJunk traffic from self-replicating zombiewareAug 12 13:02
Ngall ports should be blocked by default except the ones you actually need :)Aug 12 13:03
schestowitzThis one's new to me: 12 13:03
schestowitzCan be trickyAug 12 13:04
schestowitzIIRC, in Mandriva I needed to allow SSH, not just enable itAug 12 13:04
schestowitzSame in Ubuntu 4.10Aug 12 13:04
schestowitzOpenSSH wasn't even installed on it at the time.Aug 12 13:04
schestowitzpytube and Elltube are not in the Mandriva repoAug 12 13:05
Ngwell ubuntu desktop has a no-remote-ports-open-by-default policyAug 12 13:06
Ngwhich certainly helps :)Aug 12 13:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Cloud-Generating 1900-Ship Armada to Sink Climate Change" And how much energy to build and run the ship?Aug 12 13:10
schestowitzAre the Glory Days Long Gone for I.T.?  <  >Aug 12 13:10
schestowitz (Sun ending Solaris Express Community Edition (SXCE)) Sign of overall Solaris demise?Aug 12 13:14
schestowitz""A computer selected to launch a SuperNode is usually one with a fast CPU, several GB of RAM AND a cable Internet connection. When my PC was selected as a SuperNode it took up to 340Kb/s of my bandwidth! It was a noticeable slowdown, sometimes causing the mouse to hesitate during startups of certain other applications." Aug 12 13:15
schestowitz 12 13:15
schestowitz"On Linux the SuperNode isn't listed among the running services. The only way to kill it is to make sure Skype is not idling in the system tray and then rebooting."Aug 12 13:17
schestowitzA Zambian safari in the sky 12 13:19
schestowitzEx-employees claim Blackwater pimped out young Iraqi girls < >Aug 12 13:19
schestowitz"Incredibly, President George W. Bush told French President Jacques Chirac in early 2003 that Iraq must be invaded to thwart Gog and Magog, the Bible’s satanic agents of the Apocalypse." 12 13:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Obama administration close to investigating alleged abuses by CIA < >Aug 12 13:23
schestowitz An Independent Investigation into Allegations  of organ Harvesting of Falun gong practitioners in china < > Just updated.Aug 12 13:23
schestowitzReport: Ex-Marine, employee link Blackwater founder Erik Prince to murders < >Aug 12 13:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Lethal algae take over beaches in northern France" 12 13:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] My daughter had Langerhans' cell histiocytosis (LCH) treated on the NHS last year. #welovetheNHSAug 12 13:28
schestowitzHP sued by own sales reps 12 13:28
schestowitzUS courts give McKinnon some worries "A Los Angeles hacker, Viachelav Berkovich, 34, received a slightly reduced sentence of 55 months in prison for participating in a multi-million dollar computer fraud scheme." 12 13:30
schestowitztessier: (Continental [Airlines] imprisons 50 passengers overnight in grounded plane with no food, overflowing toilets)Aug 12 13:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Civil unrest grips U.S." < > I heard the Secret Services deal with 50 death threats/day vs the president.Aug 12 13:32
schestowitz"The $70 billion Australian junk food industry is now applying PR strategies originally developed by the tobacco industry in a bid to avoid government regulation. Australia's federal government is readying a report about reducing obesity, which could lead to higher taxes on unhealthy foods and a ban on junk food advertising." 12 13:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How GM gets away with increasing pollution while pretending to reduce it: 12 13:38
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] LiMo is very afraid of Android, which its marketing people seem to be FUDing endlessly. 12 13:40
Balrogschestowitz: what's tnie mess with Word being hit by a patent injunction!?Aug 12 14:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Patent Trolls and McKool Smith Show Why OOXML and Software Patents Should be Shunned 12 14:47
schestowitzBalrog: see above (just posted, once sufficient info trickled in)Aug 12 14:47
BalrogOK.Aug 12 14:48
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schestowitzBMC Buys MQSoftware, Bolstering Middleware Management 12 15:02
schestowitzNovell has died. 12 15:28
twitter1McKool, what a name.  Makes me think of bad hamburgers and menthol smokes, stuff that kills.Aug 12 15:38
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schestowitzI was at Kool Runnings 2 weeks ago with a friend. It's Jamaican food :-)Aug 12 15:46
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schestowitz 12 16:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Patent Trolls and McKool Smith Show Why OOXML and Software Patents Should be Shunned 12 16:10
schestowitzMilitary coup backed by corporations 12 16:11
Diablo-D3 12 16:14
schestowitzThis person is following me.. .. is this Intellectual Vultures? [sic]Aug 12 16:19
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schestowitzThe Minimum Wage and the Coup in Honduras < >Aug 12 16:22
EruaranWindows just made me several hours later home from work than I would have beenAug 12 16:23
EruaranIts 1:30amAug 12 16:23
Eruaranah wellAug 12 16:24
EruaranClient is happyAug 12 16:24
schestowitzDiablo-D3: good videoAug 12 16:25
schestowitzDo we really need to ban plastic bags? < > Here in the UK the shops now collect them for recycling.Aug 12 16:28
schestowitzEruaran: did client get Linux?Aug 12 16:28
schestowitzDid said client have sad Windows agony?Aug 12 16:28
schestowitzM.T.A. Sells Naming Rights to Subway Station  < > This is outrageous. There should be a fuss over itAug 12 16:29
Eruarannah but she had a look at our linux demoAug 12 16:29
Eruaranshe was surprisedAug 12 16:29
Eruaranshe had sad Windows agony yesAug 12 16:29
Eruaranhas a meeting in the morning and her Windows notebook had keeled overAug 12 16:30
schestowitzRMS: "If a government's philosophy is that everything is for sale, can it be a good government?"Aug 12 16:30
schestowitzThe Windows or the notebook?Aug 12 16:30
EruaranThe WindowsAug 12 16:30
schestowitzCause hardware issues don't quite feel itAug 12 16:31
schestowitzSo it's a Windows issue, not a computer issueAug 12 16:31
EruaranyesAug 12 16:31
schestowitzShe ought to get a refund or free support from BillGAug 12 16:31
schestowitzAfter all, they forced her to buy itAug 12 16:31
EruaranhehAug 12 16:31
EruaranI applied some fixitAug 12 16:31
schestowitzIt's bad enough being forced to buy something and worse if it's defectiveAug 12 16:32
EruaranBut she might get a new notebook and dual bootAug 12 16:32
schestowitzWhat's the use of this URL mungers? 12 16:32
schestowitzThe net is starting to get another tier of mysterious proprietary URLsAug 12 16:33
schestowitzNew notebook?Aug 12 16:33
Eruaranproprietary urls ?Aug 12 16:33
schestowitzSo typical. Wo/man has WIndows issues, replaces whole PCAug 12 16:33
schestowitzEruaran: the are controlled by another partyAug 12 16:34
Eruarannah her notebook is getting a bit oldAug 12 16:34
schestowitzURLs whose existence depend on some vendorAug 12 16:34
Eruarani cAug 12 16:34
schestowitz"Old" or "old for VIsta"?Aug 12 16:34
schestowitzWhen I was at school a 'new' computer would have 700MhZ CPUAug 12 16:34
schestowitzAlso, habitual users (sometimes older users) don't do CPU-intensive stuff and don't use the PC muchAug 12 16:35
EruaranI think talking with me about Linux and seeing the shiny KDE 4.3 demo on a decent graphics chipset and learning about dual booting to save herself from Windows disasters has made her want to upgrade ;)Aug 12 16:35
schestowitzLuc who used to work for Novell is on their 'planet', still 12 16:38
schestowitz 12 16:39
schestowitz^Another guy who Novell laid offAug 12 16:39
Eruaranits like a cultAug 12 16:44
schestowitzOpenSUSE collage: 12 16:44
schestowitzEruaran: OpenSUSE? not really like a cult.Aug 12 16:45
schestowitzThey are a polite group, actuallyAug 12 16:45
EruarannoAug 12 16:46
EruaranNovell and the ex-Ximian Redmond fanboi crowdAug 12 16:46
Eruarananyway I've always hated what they did with SuseAug 12 16:47
schestowitzTweetDeck with XFCE < >Aug 12 16:53
schestowitzEruaran: yes, at first they did nothing (2005)Aug 12 16:53
schestowitzThey just promoted GNOME, which made me sadAug 12 16:53
schestowitzFusion with MonoAug 12 16:54
schestowitzMaybe it's better... else they could infect KDE with Mono, but then again, GNOMiguelMonoAug 12 16:54
schestowitzKDE is out of the Ximian affairAug 12 16:54
EruaranI think they set Suse back as a KDE distroAug 12 16:54
EruaranWhen it should have been moving forwardAug 12 16:55
schestowitz 12 16:55
schestowitzAnother troubling guy, IMHO. Forker, patent assigneeAug 12 16:55
schestowitzKDE regains a good place in OpenSUSEAug 12 16:55
schestowitzNot in SLE* 11Aug 12 16:56
schestowitzI don't think I can trust Novell because I know where the money comes fromAug 12 16:56
schestowitzOpenSUSE is still OKAug 12 16:56
schestowitzThere's also this in the news:\Aug 12 16:56
schestowitzThere's also this in the news: 12 16:56
schestowitz 12 16:57
EruaranI don't trust Novell's "support"Aug 12 16:58
EruaranI can just smell the bsAug 12 16:59
schestowitzUKUUG Birmingham Conference < >Aug 12 17:00
schestowitzNovell is always pulling the OpenSUSE stringsAug 12 17:00
schestowitzMany companies stick "open" behind their product name and pretend it's run by "community'Aug 12 17:00
schestowitzJust a dire marketing trickAug 12 17:00
schestowitzFreeSpireAug 12 17:01
schestowitzFedoraAug 12 17:01
schestowitzGobuntu (let's pretend it's free)Aug 12 17:01
schestowitzSimplyMEPISAug 12 17:01
schestowitzWatch what Miguel is doing today: 12 17:02
EruaranI have never been able to bring myself to install OpenSUSE post Microvell dealAug 12 17:02
EruaranohffsAug 12 17:02
schestowitzI'll blog it in a moment. In essence, Novell already knows that Microsoft's MCP is limited to particular packages/components and versions of C#/.NET (and the Mono equivalent). Novell can totally ignore this because it has a special and exclusionary deal with Microsoft, regarding software patents to be specific.Aug 12 17:03
Eruaranthese guys are working hard for MicrosoftAug 12 17:04
schestowitzAnything funny here? 12 17:04
schestowitzNo, they don't work for MicrosoftAug 12 17:04
schestowitzThey work for themselvesAug 12 17:04
schestowitzThey need to paycheckAug 12 17:04
EruaranThey don't get paid by Microsoft... directlyAug 12 17:04
schestowitzMicrosoft pays that paycheck, by paying NovellAug 12 17:04
schestowitz /to/the/Aug 12 17:04
EruaranThey're working to further Microsoft's interestsAug 12 17:04
schestowitz /Microsoft/Novell/Aug 12 17:05
schestowitzI guess there's overlapAug 12 17:05
EruaranGuys like Miguel make me sickAug 12 17:05
schestowitz"What's good for you is good for the country"Aug 12 17:05
schestowitzAAug 12 17:05
schestowitz"Ask not what Novell can do for you, ask what you can do for Microsoft"Aug 12 17:05
EruaranWouldn't use Qt back in the day but he doesn't mind doing a bit of marketing for Visual Studio these daysAug 12 17:06
Eruaranone wordAug 12 17:06
EruaranwankerAug 12 17:06
schestowitzThe new evolution hopefully gained no Mono (can you check?), except the plugin 12 17:07
schestowitzBut you're forgetting that he sees Microsoft as a friend, not a rivalAug 12 17:07
schestowitzFrom another person's POV, VS is _good_Aug 12 17:07
schestowitzAsk him about Microsoft's crimes and corruption (as we do in COLA) and he'll slink awayAug 12 17:08
Eruaranhe's a wankerAug 12 17:08
schestowitzLike this: 12 17:08
schestowitzDaniWeb has been filled with Linux-hostile provocation recently... dunno why.. 12 17:11
schestowitzOops. THis one; 12 17:11
Diablo-D3schestowitz: its amazing how much bs is on the webAug 12 17:11
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schestowitz John Bailo is still floating on the interwebz 12 17:15
schestowitzHow Effective is American Healthcare? < >Aug 12 17:21
schestowitzControlling the Ranching Boom That Threatens the Amazon 12 17:27
balzacRoy, we're gonna make millions buddy.Aug 12 17:29
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balzacGNU Crew!Aug 12 17:29
schestowitzglynmoody says "Is It Now a Crime to Be Poor? - “the law ... forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges""Aug 12 17:31
Balrogschestowitz: have you updated wordpress to 2.8.4?Aug 12 17:31
schestowitzbalzac: you're still with those fantasies?Aug 12 17:31
schestowitzBalrog: yes, ASAPAug 12 17:31
Diablo-D3I need to do thatAug 12 17:31
Diablo-D3this is why I hate phpAug 12 17:31
BalrogI just did itAug 12 17:31
schestowitzIn 2 blogs, one doesn't detect yet the available upgradeAug 12 17:31
schestowitzBalrog: which blog?Aug 12 17:31
Diablo-D3the only webapps that seem to get that crap are php shitAug 12 17:32
Balrognot a blog, it's a small site I runAug 12 17:32
Balrogfor someoneAug 12 17:32
schestowitzOK, not it finally detects the update on the other blogAug 12 17:32
schestowitzI wonder..Aug 12 17:32
schestowitzMaybe Automattic is dividing it so that not everyone upgrades at the same time?Aug 12 17:33
schestowitzI have no other explanation and it would make senseAug 12 17:33
Diablo-D3noAug 12 17:33
Diablo-D3the check for update plugin doesnt check everytime you loginAug 12 17:33
Diablo-D3it checks every x hoursAug 12 17:33
*schestowitz just patched the third Web siteAug 12 17:34
schestowitzDiablo-D3: ahhhhhh.. OKAug 12 17:34
schestowitzThanksAug 12 17:34
BalrogDiablo-D3: doesn't it check whenever the cronjob is run?Aug 12 17:34
Diablo-D3Balrog: Im not sure if it uses a cronjobAug 12 17:34
BalroghehAug 12 17:34
Diablo-D3it _should_ be everytime the admin logs inAug 12 17:34
schestowitzI couldn't find a place in the dashboard where a check can be forced/triggeredAug 12 17:34
Diablo-D3I don't like wordpressAug 12 17:35
Balrogthe exploit code is trivial ... '[]=' and the password is recet to random.Aug 12 17:35
schestowitzNo big dealAug 12 17:35
Diablo-D3people aren't really effected by the exploit thoughAug 12 17:35
Diablo-D3you can reset it from sqlAug 12 17:35
Balrogit's more of a nasty prankAug 12 17:35
Balrogwhat trolls might doAug 12 17:35
schestowitzIt would be serious if you could change the email addy the pw is dispatched toAug 12 17:36
wallclimberI have a quick question, has anyone here ever used GNUCash on Windows?Aug 12 17:37
wallclimberI'm trying to discourage a friend from buying Intuit Quicken and getting locked-inAug 12 17:38
schestowitzthenixedreport tests itAug 12 17:38
schestowitzIf you buy Windows, you have neither gnu nor cash left :-)Aug 12 17:38
wallclimber:)Aug 12 17:39
wallclimbershe has an older XP machine.  I'd bet it's horribly unpatched and outdatedAug 12 17:39
schestowitzHalf of them are infected with somehtingAug 12 17:40
schestowitzI.e. zombie-on-demandAug 12 17:40
schestowitz Two convicted for refusal to decrypt dataAug 12 17:40
Balrogschestowitz: I saw thatAug 12 17:40
wallclimberbut she called and asked if she should install Quicken that's borrowed from a friend...I tried to discourage thatAug 12 17:40
Balrogso if you have a random file on your disk, generated from /dev/urandom are you liable?Aug 12 17:40
Balrogor a truecrypt volume with a hidden volume inside?Aug 12 17:41
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schestowitzwallclimber: have you shown her reviews of gnucash?Aug 12 17:42
schestowitzDigitalizing My Personal Finances on Linux 12 17:43
schestowitzGet started with HomeBank 12 17:43
schestowitzGnuCash, for Personal and Business Finance, Out in New Version 12 17:43
schestowitzManage Your Finances With GNUCash 12 17:43
schestowitzIf You Knew Cash Like GnuCash Knows Cash 12 17:44
schestowitzShareware Report: GNU money versus old 12 17:44
wallclimberThose are great.  Thanks! (off to read stuff :o)Aug 12 17:44
schestowitzMicrosoft becomes memorabilia.  ‘Prehistoric’ Microsoft operating system on eBay for $7500 < >Aug 12 17:45
schestowitzSave your Windows CDs... when Windows is history it might be worth somehtingAug 12 17:45
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schestowitz Nabaztag can't make RFID cool, has to file for bankruptcy < >Aug 12 17:47
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @glynmoody 2 U.S. Architects of Harsh Tactics in 9/11’s Wake - sad to see how despicable humans can be for money ...Aug 12 17:51
schestowitzPaypal adds new fees with no notice < >Aug 12 17:59
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "The president of the United States [...] asked for French troops to join American soldiers in attacking Iraq as a mission from God." ht ...Aug 12 18:03
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schestowitz"The Government's food watchdog, the Food Standards Agency, has rejected criticism of its study showing that eating organic food does not provide any significant health benefits. " 12 18:03
schestowitzThis one sounds like witch-potion myth: "Drinking beetroot juice boosts stamina and could help people exercise for up to 16% longer, a UK study suggests." 12 18:04
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Obama fights back on health care plan 12 18:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] IBM says that swpats has promoted the free sharing of source code and fueled the growth of open source software: 12 18:23
zoobab01what a shameAug 12 18:28
zoobab01shame on IBMAug 12 18:28
thenixedreport?Aug 12 18:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] vote Tory for American-standard health care! #welovetheNHSAug 12 18:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] good lord, actual journalism from John C. Dvorak 12 18:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] good science: the artificial leaf 12 18:36
thenixedreportWow.Aug 12 18:39
thenixedreportI'm submitting this to 12 18:39
BalrogIBM is pro sw patent!?!?Aug 12 18:43
NgIBM have a huge patent portfolio across all kinds of thingsAug 12 18:44
BalrogI know :\Aug 12 18:44
Ngbut they have a blanket position of not chasing open source projects over htemAug 12 18:44
Nghmm, maybe it's not blanketAug 12 18:45
Ngbut they're part of OINAug 12 18:45
cubezzzI must say Zaurus kicks assAug 12 18:47
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Copy of the Patently-O letters on Bilski at the US Supreme Court in HTML: 12 18:55
schestowitzthanks, zoobab01 Aug 12 18:56
neighborleeschestowitz, reading over gnome ML board meeting minutes (2007) it looks like some were of the frame of mind MS wasn't a threat,Philip Van Hoof seemed to not think they were a threat based on his posts..RMS was take opposite stance as was alan..does PVH stilll sit on board and active member, or has changed his positions I wonder ?Aug 12 19:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Multiple Versions of GNU/Linux Run Simultaneously Debian 12 19:12
BalrogwowAug 12 19:18
BalrogPalm Pre Reports Your Location and Usage To PalmAug 12 19:18
BalrogPalm Pre Reports Your Location and Usage To PalmAug 12 19:18
BalrogerrAug 12 19:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Rumours That Nokia is Betting on Linux Denied by Nokia 12 19:18
Balrog 12 19:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Rumours That Nokia is Betting on Linux Denied by Nokia 12 19:19
schestowitzThe carriers gets that tooAug 12 19:19
schestowitzNot just Palm... for ALL phonesAug 12 19:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Sony's Linux-based eReader Made Hackable 12 19:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Flemish Region Prepares People for Free Software 12 19:26
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Funding Gains and Capital for Free Software 12 19:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 3-D Printers Run GNU/Linux and Free Software 12 19:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] FCC Studies Abuse by the Copyright Cartel 12 19:48
schestowitzthenixedreport: yes, I'm in libervis too, for a long timeAug 12 19:57
thenixedreportlolAug 12 20:09
thenixedreportSo you lurk there Roy?Aug 12 20:09
thenixedreportlolAug 12 20:09
thenixedreportI always wondered why you never really commented there...Aug 12 20:09
thenixedreport:)Aug 12 20:09
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Hypocrisy is the world's new plague..Aug 12 20:11
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hichamhi Don schestowitzAug 12 20:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] what the shitting christ. i think i have tomorrow's notnews.Aug 12 20:27
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schestowitzHey, hicham Aug 12 20:43
schestowitzthenixedreport: yes, sort ofAug 12 20:43
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DaemonFCthey shut my water offAug 12 20:54
DaemonFCturns out it was never supposed to be on at all for 2.5 yearsAug 12 20:54
DaemonFCnobody was paying the bill, and now they're senfing my landlord the back bill all the way to January 2007Aug 12 20:54
DaemonFCsucks to be himAug 12 20:54
DaemonFCthey came back out here and turned it on just now, I told them I was going to sue someone if they didn'tAug 12 20:55
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DaemonFCschestowitz: Do you feel like you're under arrest everytime you start a new install of Firefox?Aug 12 21:13
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DaemonFC:PAug 12 21:13
DaemonFC"Know your rights"Aug 12 21:13
DaemonFCcould they possibly have phrased that worse?Aug 12 21:13
schestowitzDaemonFC: noAug 12 21:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] No Lessons Learned from Windows-imposed Web Turbulence 12 21:14
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DaemonFCschestowitz: There's articles describing Windows 7 RTM as safe from the Patch Tuesday vulnerabilities that have been fixed in Vista and XP this monthAug 12 21:19
DaemonFCbut that's why Microsoft made 7600.16385 the RTM, they integrated those patches right before they declared it finalAug 12 21:19
DaemonFCthen said it was safe from the bugs that affected XP and VistaAug 12 21:20
DaemonFC7600.16384 was almost the RTM, but they made a new build just for theseAug 12 21:20
DaemonFCsneakyAug 12 21:20
MinceRthey've managed to apply the patches to vista7, too? :>Aug 12 21:21
DaemonFCyeah, they applied all the patches, called that build the RTM, then said the RTM was unaffectedAug 12 21:21
DaemonFC;)Aug 12 21:21
DaemonFCthen released a press release patting Windows 7 on the back for being more secureAug 12 21:22
DaemonFCeven though at least half those bugs affected it tooAug 12 21:22
DaemonFCyou wouldn't notice this unless you had been following the Windows 7 build process pretty closelyAug 12 21:23
MinceRpathetic, as usualAug 12 21:23
DaemonFCwatch what happens on Patch Tuesday in September and OctoberAug 12 21:24
DaemonFCand see how many of those bugs affect Windows 7Aug 12 21:24
DaemonFCcause they can't declare RTM againAug 12 21:24
MinceRand there will still be people raving about how omg-secure it isAug 12 21:25
*MinceR shrugsAug 12 21:25
DaemonFCThey're still patching Windows XP after 8 yearsAug 12 21:25
DaemonFCwhat does that tell you?Aug 12 21:26
DaemonFCI fired it up on my other laptop yesterdayAug 12 21:26
MinceRthat in itself tells me almost nothing :>Aug 12 21:26
Diablo-D3osx 10.6 is masteredAug 12 21:26
DaemonFCand had 9 security updates waitingAug 12 21:26
DaemonFCwell, after 8 years and ~4,000 patches you'd expect them to have tied up most of the loose endsAug 12 21:27
Diablo-D3wellAug 12 21:27
DaemonFCthey said Windows XP was secure when it launchedAug 12 21:27
Diablo-D3as much as I hate .netAug 12 21:27
DaemonFCand they are *still* patching it routinelyAug 12 21:27
MinceRi see security updates to debian and ubuntu almost every dayAug 12 21:27
Diablo-D3if they'd just use it everywhere, 90% of their bugs would vanish overnightAug 12 21:27
MinceRthen again those apply to apps and libs tooAug 12 21:27
Diablo-D3MinceR: debian also has over nine thousand times more appsAug 12 21:27
DaemonFCMincer: Ubuntu and Debian haven't been basically frozen for 8 yearsAug 12 21:27
MinceRindeedAug 12 21:27
Diablo-D3core debian shit is rarely security patchedAug 12 21:28
Diablo-D3youAug 12 21:28
Diablo-D3erAug 12 21:28
DaemonFCthe only real changes to XP are a few add-ons and a hell of a lot of bug patchesAug 12 21:28
Diablo-D3you'd be basically looking at the kernel and libc 90% of the timeAug 12 21:28
Diablo-D3everything else is really simplistic codeAug 12 21:28
MinceRif the EULA is true then there probably are DRM changes too :>Aug 12 21:28
DaemonFCDebian's security patch cycle is a lot like Microsoft's actuallyAug 12 21:28
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: not trueAug 12 21:29
DaemonFCthey just revision the whole system every month or soAug 12 21:29
Diablo-D3debian has security patches usually out the same dayAug 12 21:29
Diablo-D3it usually takes microsoft a year to even admit theres a problemAug 12 21:29
DaemonFCeven Microsoft does out of band patches if the problem is severe enoughAug 12 21:29
Diablo-D3wrongAug 12 21:29
Diablo-D3every security flaw is a security flawAug 12 21:29
Diablo-D3periodAug 12 21:30
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MinceRm$ tends to downplay the severityAug 12 21:31
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_goblinHello allAug 12 21:40
DaemonFCApple doesn't classify vulnerabilitiesAug 12 21:41
DaemonFCit could be trivial or critical and a bug is just a bugAug 12 21:41
DaemonFCthey don't want to call attention to a "critical" flaw in OS XAug 12 21:42
DaemonFCtheir anti-Vista commercials are funny, but their product isn't a lot betterAug 12 21:42
DaemonFCyou want to talk about downplaying problems, you've never had Apple hardware, they'll tell you your ipod didn't just explode and offer you a "refund" with the form doubling as an NDAAug 12 21:43
MinceRyes, little m$ and big m$ function similarlyAug 12 21:44
DaemonFCat least the shit sticks to big MSAug 12 21:45
DaemonFC:PAug 12 21:45
DaemonFCApple is like the Teflon Don of computer merchandiseAug 12 21:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Accused of “Sabotaging Desktop Virtualisation” 12 21:46
neighborleeDaemonFC, except for those kewl magnetic power cords ;)Aug 12 21:46
DaemonFCthe ones that were catching fire?Aug 12 21:46
DaemonFCbut you'd never trip over themAug 12 21:46
neighborleeI presume they fixed them lolAug 12 21:46
DaemonFCyeah, they kind of didAug 12 21:46
neighborleemy friend has one..she never said much about any fire issuesAug 12 21:46
DaemonFCit's easier to yank the new ones out by accident thoughAug 12 21:47
DaemonFCthe magnets are not as strongAug 12 21:47
neighborleethough her child kept chewing it lolAug 12 21:47
DaemonFCevolution in actionAug 12 21:47
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neighborleehehAug 12 21:47
DaemonFCMicrosoft pioneered the art of extremely popular software that almost everyone hates and continues to buy anywayAug 12 21:49
DaemonFCthat's still an accomplishmentAug 12 21:49
neighborleecheap hardware when needed, and just works , isn't a bad business model for most peopleAug 12 21:52
neighborleeregardless whether or not we like it ;)Aug 12 21:52
neighborleeymmv=just works :)Aug 12 21:52
neighborleelike atm my mouse driver wont work in win7, nor acpiAug 12 21:52 heavily considering going 'backwards' to xpAug 12 21:52
neighborleeo_0Aug 12 21:52
neighborleec'est la vieAug 12 21:52
DaemonFCsoftware that just works is worth something to meAug 12 21:53
DaemonFCbut $320 for Windows Ultimate it a tad muchAug 12 21:53
neighborleemy friend has as well...and she has vista she got from dell..and access to win7 but...that runs out soon and it seems business and end users are  very weary to endorse itAug 12 21:53
neighborleeyet anywayAug 12 21:54
DaemonFCif you qualify for a free upgrade disc, take itAug 12 21:54
neighborleewell my friend lives by Photoshop..gimp she hatesAug 12 21:54
neighborleeso its no contestAug 12 21:54
neighborleeand wine she wont use I dont think..she uses what works for her basicalyAug 12 21:55
neighborleesad as it is ;)<grin>Aug 12 21:55
DaemonFCPhotoshop works in WineAug 12 21:55
neighborleeyes I knowAug 12 21:55
DaemonFCit's one app they go out of their way to supportAug 12 21:55
neighborleebut I dont think she's willling to go thereAug 12 21:55
DaemonFCcause of CrossoverAug 12 21:55
neighborleeyesAug 12 21:55
neighborleeyeah windows way joseAug 12 21:56
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DaemonFChmmm, tons of companies are refusing to advertise while Glenn Beck is onAug 12 21:59
DaemonFCthat's awesomeAug 12 21:59
Diablo-D3I dont know whyAug 12 22:01
Diablo-D3thats like not advertising when bill o'reilly or the daily show is onAug 12 22:02
DaemonFCcause Glenn Beck is crazy even for Fox NoiseAug 12 22:03
neighborleeDaemonFC, totally agree..toatl whack jobAug 12 22:03
neighborleetotalAug 12 22:03
DaemonFCif he loses enough advertisers that don't want to be associated wit ha racist moronAug 12 22:03
neighborleeDaemonFC, not only that..lou dobbs lately went a bit whacko agreeing with 'birthers' ...I was slightly surprised even though he's a independentAug 12 22:04
DaemonFCthey'll have to yank his showAug 12 22:04
neighborleepity ;)Aug 12 22:04
DaemonFCLou Dobbs has always been nutsAug 12 22:04
neighborleehehAug 12 22:04
DaemonFChe was falling in with the NAU conspiracy in 2006/2007Aug 12 22:04
DaemonFCaccording to those guys, there was some kind of alternate 2009 where we were integrated into the "North American Union" heheAug 12 22:06
neighborlee:)Aug 12 22:07
neighborleeicAug 12 22:07
DaemonFCnow they're saying 2011Aug 12 22:09
DaemonFCin 2011, it'll be 2013 I'm sureAug 12 22:09
MinceRin ad 2101Aug 12 22:09
MinceRwar was beginning.Aug 12 22:09
DaemonFCwe're always "Just about" to be taken over by the UN or something with these peopleAug 12 22:09
_goblinIn debate with John ObetoAug 12 22:11
_goblinhe's actually managed to stay very reasonable.Aug 12 22:12
DaemonFCI like Rachel Maddow and Keith OlbermannAug 12 22:13
DaemonFCMaddow used to have a show on Air AmericaAug 12 22:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] hey, shallow and annoying's always worked pretty well for me 12 22:16
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schestowitz_goblin: he seemed violent to meAug 12 22:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Guess Which Software Giant is Promoting Software Patents 12 22:22
schestowitzAttacks on Linux were mercilessAug 12 22:22
schestowitzI wonder if he ever used Linux. Ha!Aug 12 22:22
_goblinSchestowitz: 12 22:24
_goblinSchestowitz: He's so far met my criteria for debate.....staying polite....iAug 12 22:24
DaemonFCI'm hoping Ubuntu 10.04 shapes upAug 12 22:25
_goblinDaemonFC: So am I.  I didnt think 9.04 was the great miracle it was touted to be.Aug 12 22:25
DaemonFCI'd like to settle on a decent LTS branchAug 12 22:25
DaemonFC9.04 gave me a lot of problems, they usualyl don't get so aggressive with LTS releasesAug 12 22:26
_goblinDaemonFC: Thats not to say it wasnt good, but when you still get faster boot times out of #!CBL somethings wrong somewhere.Aug 12 22:26
MinceRi'm hoping i'll find a distro that works as reliably now as hardy didAug 12 22:27
MinceR(but with newer packages)Aug 12 22:27
_goblinMinceR: Funnily enough I have a heavily modded 8.04 running on one of my rigs.Aug 12 22:27
DaemonFCalso, their LTS to LTS upgrades tend to cause more problems than a normal dist upgradeAug 12 22:27
_goblinMinceR: and I swear by it.Aug 12 22:27
DaemonFChmmm, there's another Stargate series coming in OctoberAug 12 22:28
_goblinMinceR: 12 22:29
MinceRstargate ftwAug 12 22:29
_goblinMinceR: running latest dev build wine, firefox, chromium, e-uae and my own fork of Klibido.Aug 12 22:29
MinceR:)Aug 12 22:29
neighborleeDaemonFC, yeah I hated to see the other end, but hey they cert. put in their time ;)Aug 12 22:30
neighborleeDaemonFC, nice to have a combo of two of my fav. shows ;)Aug 12 22:31
DaemonFCthis one is supposed to take place on some kind of Ancient research shipAug 12 22:31
DaemonFCthey accidentalyl dial into the stargate on it and can't get off  the ship or figure out the navigation systemAug 12 22:31
DaemonFCit's on a pre-programmed course :PAug 12 22:32
DaemonFCsounds kind of like how the pilot for Atlantis startedAug 12 22:32
neighborleethe destiny yupAug 12 22:34
neighborleethey are pushed through a stargate to avoid enemy fireAug 12 22:34
neighborleesorta yesAug 12 22:34
DaemonFCstill doesn't explain why they dialed the ship, it says there's 9 coordinates for the shipAug 12 22:35
neighborleeDaemonFC, I presume you saw  atlantis ending,,spectacular ;0-0Aug 12 22:35
DaemonFCwouldn't they be dialing 7 to get a gate in their galaxy?Aug 12 22:35
DaemonFCyepAug 12 22:35
DaemonFCthe SG-1 episodes where Maybourne is "hacking" into the NID network is kind of an easter egg if you hadn't noticedAug 12 22:36
DaemonFCI counted OS/2. SGI IRIX, Mac OS either 8 or 9 (couldn't tell), and possibly LinuxAug 12 22:37
DaemonFCalso saw Windows 98Aug 12 22:37
DaemonFCthe Netscape browser he was using to hack into a remote system was pointed to a file:// url on the system's C driveAug 12 22:38
DaemonFC:)Aug 12 22:38
DaemonFCwhoopsAug 12 22:38
MinceRdidn't pay attention :/Aug 12 22:39
MinceRhowever, an app they keep looking at looks an awful lot like X-Chat with the nicklist on both sides.Aug 12 22:40
DaemonFCthe people that created the "login page" had it on that system's hard driveAug 12 22:40
DaemonFCNetscape also had a pretty decent (for the time) WYSIWYG HTML editorAug 12 22:40
DaemonFCit made its way into Mozilla too and then as NvuAug 12 22:41
DaemonFCobviously rewritten to put out standard-compliant pagesAug 12 22:41
DaemonFCthe Netscape version put out proprietary HTML that was meant for NavigatorAug 12 22:41
DaemonFCkind of their answer to Microsoft FrontpageAug 12 22:41
neighborleeoh boyAug 12 22:42
neighborleeanother get for MS silverlightAug 12 22:42
neighborleesguAug 12 22:42
neighborlee*powered by MS silverlight*Aug 12 22:42
neighborleehmfAug 12 22:42
DaemonFCMicrosoft is no longer interested in making IE-only garbage as far as things like CSS and HTML goAug 12 22:42
DaemonFCbecause the new way to subvert the standards are to use them to load SilverlightAug 12 22:43
neighborleeno doubtAug 12 22:43
MinceRthat doesn't mean they must stop pushing m$-html and m$-cssAug 12 22:43
MinceRand m$-domAug 12 22:43
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DaemonFCthey don't seem interested in that approach anymoreAug 12 22:44
DaemonFCas long as they can use W3C standard markup and make half the site depend on Silverlight, they can stil lwinAug 12 22:45
DaemonFCSci Fi Channel is using Silverlight now though?Aug 12 22:46
DaemonFCwonder how much MS paid them to do thatAug 12 22:46
neighborlee < thats howAug 12 22:46
DaemonFCall I see is FlashAug 12 22:47
neighborleesomethign called photosynthAug 12 22:47
DaemonFCtheir site also uses FlashAug 12 22:47
neighborleefancy image stitchingAug 12 22:47
neighborleeyes only iniitially thoughAug 12 22:47
neighborleeto SEE ship, you need silverlightAug 12 22:47
neighborleeatm anywayAug 12 22:47
MinceRdo they really believe they can force silverblight on the world now?Aug 12 22:47
neighborleeapparantlyAug 12 22:47
MinceRdoes anyone believe that?Aug 12 22:47
neighborleehowever,,I wont be one of themAug 12 22:48
neighborleeI suspect many willl thoughAug 12 22:48
DaemonFCwhat's the url?Aug 12 22:48
DaemonFCI only see FlashAug 12 22:48
neighborlee 12 22:48
neighborleeoh sorryAug 12 22:48
neighborleegettingAug 12 22:48
neighborlee 12 22:48
DaemonFCaggghAug 12 22:48
DaemonFCI wonder if Moonlight can play itAug 12 22:49
neighborlee:)Aug 12 22:49
DaemonFCI wonder if they could even do this with Flash thoughAug 12 22:50
neighborleeI was also wondering thatAug 12 22:50
neighborleeyou can bet they are working on itAug 12 22:51
DaemonFCthey don't use Silverlight for any of the rest of the siteAug 12 22:51
DaemonFCjust thisAug 12 22:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Novell Ignores Microsoft’s Community Promise Limitations 12 22:51
neighborleeDaemonFC, correctAug 12 22:51
DaemonFC 12 22:51
DaemonFCFlash video explaining why they used SilverlightAug 12 22:52
neighborleeseen it yupAug 12 22:52
DaemonFCI don't think Flash can do thatAug 12 22:53
neighborleedoubtful atmAug 12 22:53
neighborleebeyond that no ideaAug 12 22:53
DaemonFCthis reminds me of something Microsoft had a LONG time agoAug 12 22:54
DaemonFCVRMLAug 12 22:54
schestowitzWal-Mart Abusing Trademark Law To Try To Shut Down Union Website < >Aug 12 22:54
DaemonFCthat eventually got integrated into SVGAug 12 22:54
schestowitzWhat a nice company Wal-Mart isAug 12 22:54
DaemonFCand Microsoft never supported that in IEAug 12 22:54
DaemonFCschestowitz, that's what happened with WalmartSucks.comAug 12 22:55
DaemonFCused to be a forum where employees went to bitchAug 12 22:55
DaemonFCWalmart had it shut downAug 12 22:55
DaemonFCI don't think they sued, they just offered the guy that ran it a lot of money for the domainAug 12 22:57
DaemonFCschestowitz, about Windows zombies, that usually comes about from people using cracked softwareAug 12 22:58
DaemonFCa lot of Windows ISOs and cracks on bittorrent is pre-infected with the botnet virusesAug 12 22:58
schestowitz The Porn Industry, Free And Basic EconomicsAug 12 22:58
DaemonFCyou can build the virus right into the Windows installer by telling Windows setup to run it as an OEM setup scriptAug 12 22:59
DaemonFCanyone can do that with a bit of freeware from Microsoft called Windows Automated Installation KitAug 12 22:59
DaemonFCit's how an OEM can install drivers and their settings in the backgroundAug 12 23:00
balzac"slipstreaming"Aug 12 23:01
pmfrancoHi guy!!!Aug 12 23:02
pmfrancoWhat about the DDoS attack???Aug 12 23:02
XarverPEANUTSAug 12 23:03
DaemonFCyeah, I've used slipstreaming beforeAug 12 23:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Proprietary v FOSS? – A chat with John Obeto #microsoft #google #linux #foss #xp #windows #ipod #zuneAug 12 23:03
DaemonFCI re-did my Windows XP CD to have SP3 and all the post-SP3 updates, IE 8, WMP 11, latest DirectX files, all that stuffAug 12 23:04
DaemonFCbeats hunting it all down every time you reinstallAug 12 23:04
DaemonFCplus XP SP3 requires that you have SP1 or 2 already installed, so that's an even bigger pain if all you have is an RTM discAug 12 23:04
balzacI'm pretty happy not using windows :))))Aug 12 23:04
balzacwindows sucks, frankly. :))))))Aug 12 23:05
DaemonFCI've said repeatedly that Windows XP was never have supposed to have lived this longAug 12 23:05
balzacsteve ballmer is a jerk but i don't hate him.  :))))))Aug 12 23:05
DaemonFCthey have had to keep patching it for at least 3 years past when it should have been end of lifeAug 12 23:05
DaemonFCso farAug 12 23:06
schestowitzMedical Papers by Ghostwriters Pushed Therapy 12 23:06
balzacI just want to stop his software patent protection racketeering and cut into microsoft's obscene monopoly revenue.  :))))Aug 12 23:06
DaemonFCthey're still patching Windows 2000 evenAug 12 23:07
DaemonFCI got ahold of that in December of 1999Aug 12 23:08
DaemonFCit's almsot 10 years oldAug 12 23:08
balzacwindows 95 and 3.1 can still be found in the wildAug 12 23:08
balzacrunning legacy systemsAug 12 23:08
DaemonFCyeah, there's quite a few Windows 9x systems still out thereAug 12 23:08
*magentar_ has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))Aug 12 23:08
DaemonFCabout half as many people still use Windows 9x as what use LinuxAug 12 23:08
DaemonFCif you put together the combined usage of 95, 98, and MeAug 12 23:09
balzacpeople?Aug 12 23:09
balzacwell lots of servers use GNU/LinuxAug 12 23:09
balzacpeople are catching on tooAug 12 23:09
DaemonFCwell, it stands to reason if your PC is that old it really is preferable to run Linux as to something that hasn't been supported in any way since 2006Aug 12 23:09
DaemonFCbut people don'tAug 12 23:10
DaemonFCas long as Windows 98 still does what they want, they use it, I supposeAug 12 23:10
DaemonFCwhat other explanation is there?Aug 12 23:10
balzacGonna win, yeahAug 12 23:10
balzacWere takin overAug 12 23:10
balzacCome on!Aug 12 23:10
balzaccomputers which are not onlineAug 12 23:10
balzacdon't get malware, generallyAug 12 23:10
balzacused for inventory in an old store, for exampleAug 12 23:11
schestowitzbalzac: what's that obsession you have with wealth/Aug 12 23:11
balzacold rugged PII, win95Aug 12 23:11
DaemonFCabout 0.43% of systems out there are still on Windows 9xAug 12 23:11
*Xarver has quit (Remote closed the connection)Aug 12 23:11
DaemonFCLinux is on about 1.15% of systemsAug 12 23:11
balzacschestowitz: why wouldn't i want to be prosperous?Aug 12 23:11
schestowitzMaybe it's NYC mentality, I dunno.Aug 12 23:11
balzacso i can live wellAug 12 23:11
MinceRDaemonFC: says net applications.Aug 12 23:11
balzacwell, it really becomes obvious living in NYCAug 12 23:12
schestowitzIn the US (more so than the rest of the world) people's worth is measured in terms of bank accounts, sadlyAug 12 23:12
DaemonFCW3C counter is the only one that gives Linux 2% evenAug 12 23:12
DaemonFCand that is a site where more Linux users would tend to goAug 12 23:12
balzacschestowitz: it's not my value to society i'm concerned with.Aug 12 23:12
schestowitzMinceR: next week they'll say 43%Aug 12 23:12
balzacit's my ability to get and do what i wantAug 12 23:12
MinceRschestowitz: lol wutAug 12 23:12
schestowitzThey just piss in the wind and say what it indicatesAug 12 23:12
balzacmoney = powahAug 12 23:12
MinceRschestowitz: m$ ran out of money?Aug 12 23:12
schestowitzApple: 10% to 5%, vernightAug 12 23:12
schestowitz*overnightAug 12 23:13
_goblinIve got a link to an alleged MS slide that rates Linux having around 10%Aug 12 23:13
DaemonFC 12 23:13
schestowitzAnd our neighbour FUDster DaemonFC said that Apple has 10 times the share of Linux. *LOL*Aug 12 23:13
balzac_goblin: i'd buy that numberAug 12 23:13
DaemonFCLinux is between 0.47% and 2.02%Aug 12 23:13
MinceR:)Aug 12 23:13
_goblinapparently in a Ballmer delivered presentation.Aug 12 23:13
DaemonFCit's kind of hard to tell when less people use Linux than the rounding error of the pie chartAug 12 23:13
schestowitzDaemonFC: [citation needed]Aug 12 23:13
balzacprobably not much shrieking in that particular presentation...Aug 12 23:14
schestowitzBallmer positions Linux ahead of AppleAug 12 23:14
DaemonFCthen he's wrongAug 12 23:14
DaemonFCunless you mean corporate usersAug 12 23:14
schestowitzMicrosoft worries about Apple cause of wealthy customers and gadgets like iPhones/ipodsAug 12 23:14
_goblinhide the chairs...Aug 12 23:14
_goblindon't let ballmer hear you say that...Aug 12 23:14
DaemonFCthere's virtually no Apple presence in corporationsAug 12 23:14
schestowitzApple does not jeopardise Microsoft's market share; Linux DOESAug 12 23:14
DaemonFCthat's the area where Linux is doing wellAug 12 23:14
schestowitzLinux is eating Microsoft's share in many countries, less so in the USAug 12 23:15
schestowitzSee charts from MicrosoftAug 12 23:15
DaemonFCconsumer hardware is a different caseAug 12 23:15
_goblinBallmers never can a man who says “There’s no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance.” ever be wrong about anything?Aug 12 23:15
DaemonFCApple is doing much better than Linux thereAug 12 23:15
schestowitzAdoption of Linux in the US is 10 times lower than in some other nationsAug 12 23:15
schestowitzDaemonFC: where?Aug 12 23:15
MinceRDaemonFC: if you are looking at usa-biased stats, maybe.Aug 12 23:15
DaemonFCwell yeah, "developing nations"Aug 12 23:15
schestowitzIn the US, uesAug 12 23:15
DaemonFCyou meanAug 12 23:15
DaemonFCwhere people make $20 a yearAug 12 23:15
schestowitzCause the US loves US-based companies and advertsAug 12 23:15
MinceRcarefully tailored to a sector where crApple is present at allAug 12 23:16
schestowitzApple is nothing in most of the worldAug 12 23:16
DaemonFCit's cause they can't afford anything elseAug 12 23:16
schestowitzTell Chinese consumers about Apple...Aug 12 23:16
DaemonFCso Linux is going to be over-representedAug 12 23:16
schestowitzGo tell people in Kenya about the Apple ShopAug 12 23:16
DaemonFCthe rest is mostly cracked WindowsAug 12 23:16
MinceR( 1. look at current crApple price ranges   2. make that a "category"  3. present fudged stats  4. ???  5. Profit! )Aug 12 23:16
schestowitzNice attitude, DaemonFC Aug 12 23:16
DaemonFCin most modern countries, Linux isn't doing well because wages aren't that depressedAug 12 23:16
schestowitzApple: we only care about people who matterAug 12 23:16
MinceRwho can afford to pay lots of money for an inferior product?Aug 12 23:17
_goblinDaemonFC: nothing to do with wages.....Aug 12 23:17
schestowitzApple: we have market share among people with money, not the 'little people'Aug 12 23:17
schestowitzAnd then DaemonFC  nodsAug 12 23:17
DaemonFCschestowitz, Linux doing well in Africa would be like me saying riding a bicycle may be preferable to walkingAug 12 23:17
DaemonFCbut if I have money, I get a carAug 12 23:17
_goblinDaemonFC: I am retiring at 40 because I can, yet I still use Linux.Aug 12 23:17
MinceRDaemonFC: analogy failAug 12 23:17
schestowitzYesAug 12 23:17
DaemonFCit's not a fail, Linux is better than not having anythingAug 12 23:18
schestowitzit's about share, not powerAug 12 23:18
DaemonFCand it's freeAug 12 23:18
schestowitzLinux will gainAug 12 23:18
schestowitzIt doesn't need premium hardwareAug 12 23:18
schestowitzApple has VERY poor h/w supportAug 12 23:18
DaemonFCit's like finding an abandoned bicycle when ou can't afford a carAug 12 23:18
schestowitzIt just limits what it offersAug 12 23:18
_goblinDaemonFC: I use Linux because it BETTER.  The free part is an added bonus.Aug 12 23:18
MinceRit's strange how abandoned bicycles tend to outperform carsAug 12 23:18
MinceRit boggles the mindAug 12 23:18
DaemonFCif I'm broke, a can of beanie weenies beats starving to deathAug 12 23:19
schestowitzAnyway, this is wasteful. Daemon's advocate is here exerting energyAug 12 23:19
DaemonFCbut I wouldn't prefer it to a steakAug 12 23:19
DaemonFCTorvalds even said that in one of his speeches, they use Linux because they can't afford anything elseAug 12 23:19
>ChanServ<op #boycottnovell schestowitzAug 12 23:19
-ChanServ-You are not authorized to perform this operation.Aug 12 23:19
>NickServ<identify ****Aug 12 23:20
-NickServ-You are now identified for schestowitz.Aug 12 23:20
*services. sets mode +e schestowitzAug 12 23:20
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzAug 12 23:20
DaemonFCit's on Google VideoAug 12 23:20
_goblinDaemonFC: lol. - Thats a testament then to the greed of proprietary is it not?  Even more reason why civilized people should stand up to proprietary monopolies.Aug 12 23:20
DaemonFCit's not going to happen as long as Windows costs a pittance in modern countriesAug 12 23:21
DaemonFCto most people living thereAug 12 23:21
_goblinDaemonFC: think through what you say...if its pittance, why did you just champion the fact that people cant afford it.Aug 12 23:21
MinceRbecause he's an idioutAug 12 23:21
MinceRs/ou/o/Aug 12 23:21
DaemonFCit becomes an afterthought, unlike when you are talking about someone that doesn't make that much money in a year and could never afford itAug 12 23:21
DaemonFCit's all perspectiveAug 12 23:22
_goblinDaemonFC: of Windows is pittance to people that can afford it and is good because there are people too poor in the world to buy it.......Aug 12 23:22
DaemonFCif the average job in the US pays between $300 and $600 a week and the average African makes $20 a monthAug 12 23:22
_goblinDaemonFC: I wouldnt like to represent that defence.Aug 12 23:22
DaemonFCit's a banana republic economy, you use whatever you can salvageAug 12 23:23
DaemonFCwhatever that happens to beAug 12 23:23
MinceRDaemonFC: we're still waiting for proof that windows is actually betterAug 12 23:23
_goblinDaemonFC: yep.  I think you've made your point perfectly...Aug 12 23:23
DaemonFCdidn't say it wasAug 12 23:23
MinceRhint: "expensive" doesn't mean "good"Aug 12 23:23
DaemonFCI was saying the cost is not as much of a barrier hereAug 12 23:24
MinceRyou were implying itAug 12 23:24
_goblinDaemonFC: Can I give you some advice?Aug 12 23:24
DaemonFCthat's why Linux is not doing wellAug 12 23:24
MinceRyou were saying Linux is doing well in some countries only because it's gratisAug 12 23:24
DaemonFCnot because there's some secret anti-Linux cabalAug 12 23:24
_goblinDaemonFC: If you ever find yourself on the recieving end of a civil case......settle out of court.Aug 12 23:24
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DaemonFCif the price is not shocking to an American, they probably won't expend the time, trouble, and energy to avoid itAug 12 23:25
MinceRif you want to use the old "it's a fair playing field on the OS market" bullshit, it's about time to come up with some proof for it.Aug 12 23:25
DaemonFCif Windows was $30,000 a copy, we wouldAug 12 23:25
DaemonFCthat's where third world countries areAug 12 23:25
MinceRmost usian computer users don't even know what an OS is.Aug 12 23:25
MinceRmost computer users in the world don't.Aug 12 23:25
*fewa_ is now known as fewaAug 12 23:25
MinceRand most people who buy a computer don't get a choice anyway.Aug 12 23:25
DaemonFCfor them, Microsoft may as well be charging $30,000 a copyAug 12 23:26
MinceRand no, there's no price tag on OEM windows licensesAug 12 23:26
fewaDaemonFC, stop trollingAug 12 23:26
DaemonFCthey'll never be able to afford even one, so it's not even an optionAug 12 23:26
MinceRso none of your arguments have a leg to stand onAug 12 23:26
fewaDaemonFC, that is so utterly bullshitAug 12 23:26
DaemonFCthat doesn't leave them anywhere to goAug 12 23:26
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to MinceRAug 12 23:26
DaemonFCso it's not even a choice to use Linux, it's all they haveAug 12 23:26
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitzAug 12 23:26
fewa"As long as they are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade . " Bill GatesAug 12 23:27
*MinceR sets ban on *!*=DaemonFC@* 12 23:27
*MinceR has kicked DaemonFC from #boycottnovell (no trolling, kthxbye.)Aug 12 23:27
fewaso stop trollingAug 12 23:27
schestowitzIn African they get garbage computers for freeAug 12 23:27
schestowitzThis ensures that upon burial all the toxins will percolate onto the ground and find their ways into lakesAug 12 23:28
schestowitzHmmmmmmmmmmmm........... mercury......... [Homer voice /]Aug 12 23:28
MinceR:DAug 12 23:28
schestowitz 12 23:29
schestowitz "Does GPL still matter? - a bit one sided, because it's quite obvious that the GPL still matters.."Aug 12 23:30
schestowitzThere's a tool called ipwatchD.. .. similar to the software patent  lobby site called IPWatchAug 12 23:32
_goblinschestowitz: Your "garbage computers comment" I had never considered before....what an excellent point...never considered that....Aug 12 23:32
schestowitz_goblin: let me get you a linkAug 12 23:32
schestowitz 12 23:33
_goblincheers...Ill look now.Aug 12 23:33
schestowitzThe press hardly covers itAug 12 23:33
schestowitzThe African press is not established enough to make itself heard re this blunderAug 12 23:33
_goblinso true, and when the garbage computers die its their ground not ours that gets the toxins....Aug 12 23:34
_goblina trojan horse so to speak....Aug 12 23:34
schestowitz_goblin: also 12 23:35
schestowitz_goblin: there's a 'fight' now between east Asia and the west over the resources of Africa (looting)Aug 12 23:35
schestowitzWe're running out of fossil fuel VERY FASTAug 12 23:35
schestowitzMillions of years of organic reservoir burned in just a century or a fewAug 12 23:36
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hichamwho did that ?Aug 12 23:36
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schestowitzThe dinosaurs will probably exceed the duration of the existence of the human speciesAug 12 23:36
schestowitzKDE release adds 2,000 features < > Can these be counted?Aug 12 23:38
schestowitzIs one new widget like an OK button a feature? How about a bugfix?Aug 12 23:39
schestowitz_goblin: did you find a list of Vista 7 selling points?Aug 12 23:39
schestowitzMoA?Aug 12 23:39
_goblinlol no....its like looking for the ark of the hear the legend but never get any proof.Aug 12 23:40
oiaohmFeatures in KDE are not bug fixes.Aug 12 23:41
_goblinThe only one I can think of is............"Buy 7, it cant be worse than Vista...."Aug 12 23:41
schestowitzI hear peopl/muppet saying "Vista 7 is good" (they call it Windows as though it's a new version), but no elaborationAug 12 23:41
oiaohmYes they can be counted added features are feature request grants.Aug 12 23:41
schestowitzThings like "it's faster than Vista" are ludicrousAug 12 23:41
oiaohmWith KDE.Aug 12 23:41
schestowitzEVERYTHING is fatser than VIstaAug 12 23:41
schestowitzHeck, even Windows for supercomputers is faster than VistaAug 12 23:41
schestowitzI'm not joking by the wayAug 12 23:41
schestowitzAn article from 2007 shows thisAug 12 23:41
_goblinah I've got one....."Windows 7 - If you don't buy it, we will put monkey boy back on stage"Aug 12 23:42
oiaohm2000 feature addes spreed the number of applications in kde is not may feature adds per application.Aug 12 23:42
schestowitz_goblin: maybe something like "you'll have to hop on this wagon sooner or later"AAug 12 23:42
schestowitzAs though it's inevitable that you must go through ALL the upgradesAug 12 23:42
schestowitzSame treadmill trick with Office BTWAug 12 23:43
_goblinMicrosoft - "What we can't innovate we assimilate"Aug 12 23:43
schestowitzThe OEMsAug 12 23:43
schestowitzAnd by inference consumers tooAug 12 23:43
schestowitzThey are 'side effects'Aug 12 23:43
schestowitzIn a shop with no choice, Who needs good products?Aug 12 23:43
schestowitzAnd in a world without Windows...... [you know the rest]Aug 12 23:44
_goblinWindows 7 - "Buy it now, we have 1000 more annoying children ads to show you if you dont."Aug 12 23:44
schestowitzIs this just a UK thing?Aug 12 23:44
schestowitzI find it sickeningAug 12 23:44
*hicham has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox-3.5 3.5.2/20090803142520]")Aug 12 23:44
schestowitzThey associate a company that commits crimes with 5 year oldsAug 12 23:45
oiaohm  << Nokia moblie phone OS with MS Office.   How far away under Linux has MS Office has to be get closer.Aug 12 23:45
schestowitzThese innocent kids don't even know what they're used to promoteAug 12 23:45
_goblinIm not sure Microsoft do either.Aug 12 23:45
schestowitzIt's a form of child abuse, like telling a kid what religion he believes inAug 12 23:45
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schestowitzParents proudly send their kids to be 'molested' by MicrosoftAug 12 23:45
schestowitzPretending they are WIndows fansAug 12 23:45
schestowitzBeing told what to sayAug 12 23:45
fewaschestowitz, same things happends in china with old crappy computersAug 12 23:45
schestowitzAs though they join the 'Microsoft religion' tooAug 12 23:45
schestowitzIt's like those 3 year olds with grenades in their handsAug 12 23:46
schestowitzOnly without the violanceAug 12 23:46
schestowitzjust business aggressionAug 12 23:46
schestowitzGrenade becomes USB stickAug 12 23:46
oiaohmWindows 7 64 bit require more ram than Vista 64 bit.Aug 12 23:46
oiaohmAt least by spec sheet.Aug 12 23:47
schestowitzDoes it matter?Aug 12 23:47
schestowitzWho can run the thing at 64 bit/Aug 12 23:47
schestowitzEven FLash is a no-starterAug 12 23:47
schestowitzFlash for 6-4 bit is Linux-onlyAug 12 23:47
fewameh XP will live onAug 12 23:47
_goblinJohn Obeto  - "Actually, Google has been accused of more heinous crimes than Microsoft."Aug 12 23:47
schestowitzAnd apart from servers, Windows is a no-go for more than this artificial limitaitonAug 12 23:48
schestowitzMicrosoft holds us back at IPv4 and 32 bitsAug 12 23:48
schestowitzWhy move forward when you have a monopoly?Aug 12 23:48
fewaThe only way they replace i at all is by focing people to buy vista against their wishesAug 12 23:48
fewawith anti-competitive tyingAug 12 23:48
schestowitz_goblin: typicalAug 12 23:48
schestowitzThe TEs say it tooAug 12 23:48
schestowitzTHe new attack is on Google's nameAug 12 23:48
schestowitz"They read your E-mails'Aug 12 23:48
_goblinschestowitz: Yep....but Ive quoted him and made an example.Aug 12 23:48
schestowitz"They have many lobbysists"Aug 12 23:48
_goblinschestowitz: Lets see him justify that one.Aug 12 23:49
fewa"they are just like us"Aug 12 23:49
fewa:PPPPAug 12 23:49
fewa"so ignore what we are doing"Aug 12 23:49
schestowitzThey spy on you ad infinitum Aug 12 23:49
fewaMicrosoft has been doing that since the beginningAug 12 23:49
fewaits such junkAug 12 23:49
_goblinJohn Obeto - "I have full faith in the ability of medical emergency-vehicle pursuers’ to bring a cash-rich Google to justice for trampling on the privacy of Americans"Aug 12 23:50
schestowitzMSBBC headline: "Microsoft and Nokia form alliance"Aug 12 23:50
oiaohmGoogle has more information in there servers than MS.Aug 12 23:50
oiaohmThank god Google does not run windows.Aug 12 23:51
schestowitzJust reminds me why people have comtempt for BBC tech coverageAug 12 23:51
schestowitzit's hardly an allianceAug 12 23:51
schestowitzJust more MS adverts from the MSBBCAug 12 23:51
schestowitzIt's run by former Microsoft staff, increasinglyAug 12 23:51
oiaohmNokia is also heavily into Linux these days.Aug 12 23:51
schestowitzI tracked some staff as they moved from MS UK management to MSBBCAug 12 23:51
schestowitzAnd vice versa tooAug 12 23:51
_goblinits all there....and a simple tactic, engage, give him the opportunity to show his hand, let him elaborate, challenge, expose.Aug 12 23:51
oiaohmSo there will be more presure for MS to release a Linux version of Office.Aug 12 23:51
schestowitz_goblin: it's the "they're evil too tactic"Aug 12 23:52
oiaohmMS is losing battle after battle and trying to spin it as winning.Aug 12 23:52
schestowitzVery oldAug 12 23:52
oiaohmI remember MS saying that Windows CE/Mobile would be the only thing with MS Office mobile.Aug 12 23:53
schestowitz"Apple is evil," "Ibm is behind everything" (e.g. against OOXML), "Google is spying and conspiring against you........"Aug 12 23:53
schestowitzMicrosoft is employing professional liars to attack GOogle via diplomatsAug 12 23:53
oiaohmIBM is neither good or evil.Aug 12 23:53
schestowitzThis is well documentedAug 12 23:53
schestowitzBN has loads of exampleAug 12 23:53
schestowitzBN has loads of examplesAug 12 23:53
_goblinschestowitz: I like doing a google for "Microsoft blames"  its quite an amusing read.Aug 12 23:53
schestowitzThat's how Microsoft knows how to competeAug 12 23:53
schestowitzLike techn-ScientologyAug 12 23:53
_goblinschestowitz: Its everyones fault but Microsoft'sAug 12 23:54
oiaohmGoogle of course is going to be called a spy.Aug 12 23:54
schestowitzThey'e not evilAug 12 23:54
schestowitzThey are tyranniesAug 12 23:54
oiaohmNow else can you make a search engine without having mountains of data.Aug 12 23:54
schestowitzBut some compromise society more than othersAug 12 23:54
_goblinthinking about it...I am going to Bing "Microsoft blames"Aug 12 23:54
schestowitzAnd some are destoroying companies by not obeying rulesAug 12 23:54
oiaohmAnyone with Mountains of data can be come a risk.Aug 12 23:54
schestowitzIntel includedAug 12 23:54
schestowitzColluded and bribedAug 12 23:55
oiaohmThat is the other thing.   MS is having to give bigger and better bribes.Aug 12 23:55
_goblinlolAug 12 23:55
_goblinfirst five results:Aug 12 23:55
oiaohmIn the past cut of supply was enough to black mail people.Aug 12 23:55
_goblin"News: Microsoft blames PC makers for XP SP3 crashes"Aug 12 23:55
_goblinMicrosoft blames users for Vista infections - 12 23:56
_goblinwindows vista general Re: Microsoft blames users for OneCare fiascoAug 12 23:56
_goblinMS blames non-Redmond apps for security woesAug 12 23:56
_goblinMicrosoft blames netbook appeal, marketing costs for Windows dropAug 12 23:56
_goblinlolAug 12 23:57
_goblintheres alot of blaming going on there.Aug 12 23:57
MinceRwell, they can't just say "yes, we suck, and that's why we're dying now", can they? :>Aug 12 23:57
schestowitz_goblin: do a search for * blamed MicrosoftAug 12 23:57
schestowitzNo such queries possible thoughAug 12 23:58
schestowitzJust "blames Microsoft"Aug 12 23:58
schestowitzIf you wanna have fun to Google NewsAug 12 23:58
schestowitzGo to archiveAug 12 23:58
schestowitzChoose all timeAug 12 23:58
_goblinlol..Aug 12 23:58
_goblinfirst 5Aug 12 23:58
_goblinNapster blames Microsoft shortfalls for its problems • The RegisterAug 12 23:58
schestowitzDo some search on their past crimesAug 12 23:58
schestowitzGoogle has decent retention of someAug 12 23:58
_goblinRealNames fails, blames Microsoft | Pinsent Masons LLPAug 12 23:59
oiaohmNotice a trend _goblin blame everyone bar MS from MS.Aug 12 23:59
_goblinyep!Aug 12 23:59
schestowitz"Microsoft blames Vista preparations"Aug 12 23:59
oiaohmI remember MS blaming virus writers for defeating there first anti-virus.Aug 12 23:59
_goblinI was half expecting "Microsoft blames everyone for everything"Aug 12 23:59
schestowitz"Microsoft blames poor performance"Aug 12 23:59
oiaohmWhat was just application check summing with a known defective check sum type.Aug 12 23:59

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