IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 15th, 2009

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schestowitzBack now... practicing for the contestAug 15 00:37
fewamy power went outAug 15 00:37
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Shock as Twitter not entirely "pointless babble" 15 01:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] That, by the way, was the one-year anniversary News of the News. First one: Cheers.Aug 15 01:08
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Novell Creates OpenSUSE Team But Decreases OpenSUSE Support 15 01:20
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 15 01:24:46 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovellAug 15 01:24
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Aug 15 01:24
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Fri Jun 12 17:24:05 2009Aug 15 01:24
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelAug 15 01:24
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzAug 15 01:25
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fewa"Botnet readership was considered likely to rise as soon nothing with organic intelligence would be able to cope."Aug 15 01:27
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schestowitzfewa: 15 02:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Engaged in Misconduct in i4i Trial 15 02:17
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twitterHmph, the usual Network Criminals refuse Federal Broadband funds. 15 05:01
twitterthey should know that they will be forced to network neutrality regardless.Aug 15 05:01
twitterbut their purposeful refusal to grow networks is a long and old story. 15 05:03
Diablo-D3 15 05:16
Diablo-D3in during ffs.Aug 15 05:16
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twitterPiracy on the rise in Europe 15 05:57
Diablo-D3 15 05:57
Diablo-D3whahaha oh wowAug 15 05:57
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Diablo-D3the arnold schwarzenegger is pretty goodAug 15 06:10
twitter4 more US banks fail. The news always comes out on Friday night. 15 06:13
Diablo-D3twitter: uh, yeahAug 15 06:13
Diablo-D3the FDIC always kills banks on a weekendAug 15 06:13
Diablo-D3so you can get your money on mondayAug 15 06:14
*Diablo-D3 <3s the fdicAug 15 06:14
Diablo-D3they almost always keep their promise that they get your money the next business dayAug 15 06:14
twitter->  The Montgomery, Ala., bank, which has 346 branches spread across Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Nevada, and Texas, is the sixth largest bank failure in U.S. history and by far the largest failure of 2009.   With $25 billion in assets and $20 billion in deposits, Colonial is 100 times larger than the typical bank to have failed this year.Aug 15 06:14
Diablo-D3yeah I already knowAug 15 06:14
*Diablo-D3 has several bank blogs in his readerAug 15 06:15
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yuhongLooking at the Free Software Crediblity List, it appears that the only analyst BN trust is the 451 Group.Aug 15 06:26
yuhongIt would be nice if you can elabrate on why 451 group is better than the others.Aug 15 06:27
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schestowitz<DaemonFC> You may want to make note of the $40 million additional fine the judge just ordered for Microsoft's courtroom misconduct in the i4i case. 15 08:17
*schestowitz removes ban on *!*=DaemonFC@* 15 08:17
schestowitz 15 08:21
schestowitzThe Mono people are putting poison in LinuxAug 15 08:22
schestowitzComing from a  former Microsoft lackey:Aug 15 08:22
schestowitz"We (the Debian CLI Libraries Team) are packaging IronRuby, IronPythonAug 15 08:23
schestowitzand the Dynamic Language Runtime for Debian.  Much of the source in thisAug 15 08:23
schestowitzpackage is released under the Microsoft Public License:Aug 15 08:23
schestowitz[...] Aug 15 08:23
schestowitz[ed: I mis-wrote OSL-approved]Aug 15 08:23
schestowitz 15 08:23
schestowitzI do not see MS-PL on the DFSG wiki page:Aug 15 08:23
schestowitz 15 08:23
schestowitzHowever, Mono contains code licensed under MS-PL and it is part of theAug 15 08:23
schestowitzmain section, implying that it is compliant:Aug 15 08:23
schestowitz[...]Aug 15 08:23
schestowitzAre the MS-PL pieces of Mono stripped from the Fedora package of Mono?Aug 15 08:23
schestowitzmcs/class/MicrosoftAjaxLibrary/*Aug 15 08:23
schestowitzmcs/class/System.Web.Mvc/*Aug 15 08:23
schestowitzLooking forward to your response,"Aug 15 08:23
schestowitzTHey are poisoning Debian with GPL incompatible garbage from MicrosoftAug 15 08:23
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schestowitzCat awarded online high school diploma < >Aug 15 08:29
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] SORBS makes me want to cut a bitch. Of course, they blame those who use their services. My netblock is not dynamic. Delist it already!Aug 15 08:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Windows 7 and its biggest rival – XP? #microsoft #windows #linux #fossAug 15 08:59
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p_mashou know what I just realised something recently. Americans are full of bullshit... 15 09:13
schestowitzp_masho: insurance  companies call the shotsAug 15 09:19
p_mashoschestowitz: I dont mind that. Its the fact that some CEO can actually print "lies" in a paper !!Aug 15 09:22
p_mashoI live in the UK and even though the NHS has its faults, there is no way we'd give it up..Aug 15 09:22
p_masho>>> Even in countries like Canada and the U.K., there is no intrinsic right to health care <<Aug 15 09:22
p_masho>> All countries with socialized medicine ration health care by forcing their citizens to wait in lines to receive scarce treatments. <<Aug 15 09:23
p_mashoYes, my 76 year old dad recently has to wait 2 months, then he got his second hip replacment operation.. Paid £0 and was in care for a couple of weeks...Aug 15 09:24
tessierp_masho: Pretty much every Brit I have met likes their NHS.Aug 15 09:28
p_mashowell there's hardly any private hospitals,a dn their only for the rich anywayAug 15 09:29
schestowitzp_masho: yes, it's WSJAug 15 09:29
p_mashoso how do you guys pay for this "insurance" and how much a month?Aug 15 09:29
tessierAlthough I do wonder if maybe we shouldn't start with some of the reforms such as are proposed in that article.Aug 15 09:29
schestowitzLike Forbes and NYT they just put marketing puppets  in their to write articlesAug 15 09:30
*tessier pays around $250/mo for health insurance for the wife and IAug 15 09:30
schestowitzThey also glorify the CEOs of America (US)Aug 15 09:30
p_mashotessier: WHAT.. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!Aug 15 09:30
p_mashoi pay £10pm national insuranceAug 15 09:30
tessierp_masho: Yep.Aug 15 09:31
benJImanResource limitations will apply to any system, and in fact they're less of a problem with the NHS than the US system.Aug 15 09:31
tessierThis is the problem.Aug 15 09:31
tessierA lot of people cannot afford it.Aug 15 09:31
p_mashotessier: so i dont get it, that covers "everything" that might happen ?Aug 15 09:32
tessierBut unless something else changes other than just the payer it will only get more expensive.Aug 15 09:32
tessierp_masho: I'm really not sure. The contracts are mind bogglingly complex. I don't understand it.Aug 15 09:32
tessierBut I pay it anyway because it is better than nothing.Aug 15 09:32
p_mashothat might expalin why the NHS is starting to clamp down on "holiday patients",Aug 15 09:33
tessierAmericans etc. who go there for healthcare?Aug 15 09:33
p_mashoyep..Aug 15 09:33
tessierWho are supposedly becoming ill while on holiday?Aug 15 09:33
tessierbecomeAug 15 09:34
p_mashoyepAug 15 09:34
tessierThose same people are probably anti-Mexican immigration too. :)Aug 15 09:34
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benJImanOnce you're on UK soil you're pretty much entitled to healthcare, and if you have a work visa you're even entitled to disability benefits etc.Aug 15 09:34
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tessierThat article says there are 1.8M people in England waiting to be admitted to a hospital. Is that true?Aug 15 09:36
benJImanI don't know, it might be, you won't be waiting if you need immediate treatment. It's all triage. I'm currently waiting for an outpatient appointment myself. But it's not urgent.Aug 15 09:38
p_mashotessier: maybe.. think is you cant get "all" treamtment immedeately, so there are waiting lists..Aug 15 09:38
benJImanThe private healthcare options have waiting lists too, they're only really better for getting certain drugs.Aug 15 09:39
p_mashoput it another way.. if its urgent its done pretty quickly, otherwise u wait... or you can pay. My dad could have paid £8000 and got his operation done within the week, instead he waited 2 months (after it got too painful for him)Aug 15 09:39
p_mashoso how does it work with emergenies - eg a car accident and the ramifications..Aug 15 09:40
benJImanAmbulance arrives at scene, takes you to closest hospital, you are treated till well enough to move to your local hospital. Long term physiotherapy as needed etc.Aug 15 09:41
p_mashowhether u have insurance or notAug 15 09:41
benJImanMoney is never mentioned.Aug 15 09:41
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fewap_masho, President Obama's former doctor: 15 10:00
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fewain short: private insurance companies do nothing but get in the wayAug 15 10:00
fewatrying to prevent coverage, prevent billing, prevent expense, doing everything but treat their customersAug 15 10:01
fewap_masho, also see this quote from the opened Nixon archives: 15 10:04
fewa 15 10:04
schestowitzfewa: added for viewing later (DN)Aug 15 10:06
p_mashofewa: its really got me scratching my head. I dont undertand how such a large population can "suffer" in this way. and not do nothing about it..Aug 15 10:07
p_mashoso what does "single payer" mean.. dont understand that (sorry its off topic boycott novell )Aug 15 10:08
p_mashoboy.. this is amazing - never knew any of this stuff about USA healthcare.. I feel for you folks...Aug 15 10:12
fewap_masho, single-payer is simple, it means the government is the only party that pays for health careAug 15 10:12
fewaalthough this is a little off, because single-payer does not outlaw private practiceAug 15 10:13
p_mashoso if your unemployed, what happens ?Aug 15 10:13
fewaAll the health care will be provided by private doctors, private hospitals, private companiesAug 15 10:13
fewabut they are paid by the governmentAug 15 10:14
fewaand it comes from a taxAug 15 10:14
fewait is much more efficient than a private system, and provides a better quality of careAug 15 10:14
fewathe unemployed are coveredAug 15 10:14
fewamedicare has 3% overhead, which private insurance in the united states is 30% combined profit and overheadAug 15 10:15
fewaalso whenever someone gets sick the insurance company does not spend money to heal them, but instead sends a private detective to figure out if they can get out of an obligation to cover themAug 15 10:16
fewaits a huge conflict of interest problemAug 15 10:16
Diablo-D3I actually dislike obama's plan for one reasonAug 15 10:17
Diablo-D3it keeps insurance companies in the loop.Aug 15 10:17
p_mashofewa: an understatment >> its a huge conflict of interest problemAug 15 10:17
Diablo-D3I'm 100% for taking them over and selling the assets to pay for 50 years of what they owe the american peopleAug 15 10:17
p_mashoso these companies are pretty lucrative..Aug 15 10:18
Diablo-D3and then arresting all the upper management and selling their wifes into slaveryAug 15 10:18
p_mashoshall I take some more divident or treat a patient.. ummmmmmAug 15 10:18
Diablo-D3well, only the hot onesAug 15 10:18
Diablo-D3the ugly ones go for dog foodAug 15 10:18
fewaDiablo-D3, 15 10:18
fewa s better than the second one aboveAug 15 10:18
p_mashoDiablo-D3: maybe u should sent the upper managment to work as porters in the UKK NHS system..Aug 15 10:19
Diablo-D3fehAug 15 10:19
fewaWeiner got a promise of a vote on single-payer after the recess 15 10:20
fewaNow get your representatives to vote in the interests, and with the opinion, of their constituentsAug 15 10:21
p_mashoso why dont your "reps" in gooverment do something about it.. seems pretty obvious and simple...Aug 15 10:21
fewap_masho, this is alot of the problem: 15 10:23
p_mashothere's only one word I can think of "extortion"!Aug 15 10:24
fewaCase in point: Max Baucus 15 10:27
p_mashothis this is pretty cool .. my cousin is a GP and she earns around £80k >> 15 10:31
*p_masho Weiner is coolAug 15 10:33
fewaI didnt know who he was before thisAug 15 10:39
p_mashofewa whaw that  "senate" hearing is amazing.. like some kinda nazi govt hearing..Aug 15 10:41
fewaThe Senate was historically the house of the elites, and was only appointed by state legislaturesAug 15 10:42
fewaafter the populism of the 1020s it is now elected by popular votes in the states, but its highly non-proportionalAug 15 10:43
fewaas each state, regardless of population, gets 2 seats in the senateAug 15 10:43
p_mashoso there's 100+ of them ie 52 states*2Aug 15 10:44
fewa50X2Aug 15 10:44
fewa=100Aug 15 10:44
*p_masho ooops sorry...Aug 15 10:44
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fewaand California has 69 times the population of Wyoming but the same representation in the senateAug 15 10:46
fewa 15 10:46
fewaIt makes the Senate more conservative than the people of the countryAug 15 10:46
fewaand every law must pass through the SenateAug 15 10:46
tessierMy Amazon wishlist gets even longer...SO much cool stuff out there to learn.Aug 15 10:47
fewa(assuming that rural citizens are conservative)Aug 15 10:48
p_mashothe states seems liek 50 countries pretending to be one sometimes..Aug 15 10:48
fewaWell it is a federationAug 15 10:49
fewaand the US civil war was over that very issueAug 15 10:49
fewaon the legal side of itAug 15 10:49
schestowitztessier: what's important is being able to look stuff upAug 15 10:49
tessieryepAug 15 10:50
schestowitzMemory is volatile, method of finding information is the most valuable skillAug 15 10:50
fewayep, memory is outdated in the world where information is more and more at your fingertipsAug 15 10:50
*Diablo-D3 plugs a harddrive into his dimm slot.Aug 15 10:51
fewalawlAug 15 10:52
schestowitzEverything I've ever memorised is goneAug 15 10:52
*fewa thinks dimm slots are out datedAug 15 10:52
schestowitzWe're not magnetic tapeAug 15 10:52
*schestowitz loves WikipediaAug 15 10:52
schestowitzI use BN as a journal to keep track of things I have greater knowledge inAug 15 10:53
p_mashoDiablo-D3: my borother has installed an SSD on his PC in work.. its WILD.. boots up in 3 seconds....(he's a computer dealer)Aug 15 10:53
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schestowitzp_masho: some boot in under a secondAug 15 10:53
schestowitzBut running fewer servicesAug 15 10:53
fewap_masho, a computer pusher?Aug 15 10:53
fewa:PAug 15 10:53
p_mashofewa: uh ?Aug 15 10:53
fewayeah, esp with corebootAug 15 10:53
*p_masho fewa: doh.. just got it..Aug 15 10:54
fewaooo, a fast hitAug 15 10:54
fewa...bad jokeAug 15 10:54
fewaA cheaper way to do it is those super-fast SD cardsAug 15 10:57
Diablo-D3[06:00:11] <p_masho> Diablo-D3: my borother has installed an SSD on his PC in work.. its WILD.. boots up in 3 seconds....(he's a computer dealer)Aug 15 10:58
Diablo-D3p_masho: uh, yes, I'm already aware of thatAug 15 10:59
Diablo-D3its almost as fast as when I boot XP in virtualboxAug 15 10:59
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Diablo-D3fewa: they make boxes that combine 4 CFs into one driveAug 15 10:59
Diablo-D32.5" box, has normal sata data and power plugsAug 15 10:59
Diablo-D3has an onboard raid1+0 chipAug 15 11:00
fewaI use a SD card cause its fast, highly portable, and compatibleAug 15 11:00
Diablo-D3CF cards are cheaperAug 15 11:00
Diablo-D3you know why?Aug 15 11:00
fewafor a desktop ssd isnt really needed, because it just gets cachedAug 15 11:00
Diablo-D3CF can be plugged into IDEAug 15 11:00
fewaif you have a good amount of ramAug 15 11:00
Diablo-D3you just need a mechanical adapter (for the actual plug)Aug 15 11:01
fewao waohAug 15 11:01
fewathats coolAug 15 11:01
Diablo-D3with these boxes they take CF slots wire them into IDE->SATA bridges (if they need them) and then wire that into the RAID controllerAug 15 11:01
fewabut wouldn't flash cards that use flash interfaces instead of block emulation work better?Aug 15 11:01
Diablo-D3nopeAug 15 11:01
Diablo-D3CF is very oldAug 15 11:01
fewaisn't block sizes making things clunkyAug 15 11:02
Diablo-D3nopeAug 15 11:02
Diablo-D3especially since they use blocks anyhowAug 15 11:02
Diablo-D3and they support modern ATA standardsAug 15 11:02
fewaso all the flash file systems will be block-basedAug 15 11:02
Diablo-D3computers are block based.Aug 15 11:03
Diablo-D3well, storage is anywaysAug 15 11:03
Diablo-D3flash uses blocks tooAug 15 11:03
fewait doesn't have to beAug 15 11:03
Diablo-D3no, but thats how flash worksAug 15 11:03
fewabut how does the mtd interface workAug 15 11:03
Diablo-D3doesnt matterAug 15 11:04
Diablo-D3you dont directly interact with MTD most of the timeAug 15 11:04
fewasome filesystems doAug 15 11:04
Diablo-D3some do, but you need an actual MTD deviceAug 15 11:04
Diablo-D3of everything I own I own exactly one device with MTDAug 15 11:04
fewa--> you dont directly interact with the block layer most of the timeAug 15 11:04
fewausually you are working in POSIXAug 15 11:05
Diablo-D3and you know what that is?Aug 15 11:05
Diablo-D3my wrt router, the onboard flash is exposed as MTD.Aug 15 11:05
Diablo-D3thats how very uncommon it isAug 15 11:05
fewaDiablo-D3, so that means you know what you are talking about?Aug 15 11:05
Diablo-D3I would hope soAug 15 11:05
fewaits on every flash device out thereAug 15 11:05
fewaPhones, routers, embeddedAug 15 11:05
Diablo-D3fewa: but _you_ cant talk to itAug 15 11:05
Diablo-D3on actual computers, its behind another layerAug 15 11:06
fewaPOSIXAug 15 11:06
Diablo-D3no think lowerAug 15 11:06
fewabut how does the block layer help things?Aug 15 11:06
fewaPOSIXAug 15 11:06
fewathats all applications care aboutAug 15 11:06
Diablo-D3CF uses IDE, SD uses SD, actual drives plugged into IDE and SATA use IDE and SATAAug 15 11:06
fewabut the applications only cares about POSIXAug 15 11:06
Diablo-D3thats the appsAug 15 11:07
Diablo-D3Im talking about the hardware talking to more hardwareAug 15 11:07
fewaand hardware changes, soooAug 15 11:07
Diablo-D3hardware doesAug 15 11:07
fewaand the hardware already exists and is in widespread useAug 15 11:07
Diablo-D3SATA had to add another instructionAug 15 11:07
Diablo-D3one that tells devices the block is freeAug 15 11:07
fewathats doesnt use block, SATA, or IDEAug 15 11:07
Diablo-D3fewa: SSDs often manage themselvesAug 15 11:08
fewawith its own filesystem:jffs2Aug 15 11:08
Diablo-D3it doesnt make sense to use a file system for flash on flash devices that manage themselvesAug 15 11:08
fewaDiablo-D3, by why does that preclude a OS from doing it?Aug 15 11:08
Diablo-D3because the device doesnt know what the OS is doingAug 15 11:08
fewaDiablo-D3, why do we need an extra chip to do something a OS could do?Aug 15 11:08
Diablo-D3because its faster and its also tuned for the deviceAug 15 11:08
fewaif it is standardAug 15 11:08
fewaIts called a device driverAug 15 11:09
fewaits a standard thingAug 15 11:09
Diablo-D3you're not understandingAug 15 11:09
fewayour not arguingAug 15 11:09
Diablo-D3the device itself can manage stuff on a per chip levelAug 15 11:09
Diablo-D3a kernel couldnt, say, perform chipkillAug 15 11:09
fewaThat still doesn't address why you are blindless defending old standards simply because they are what you are use toAug 15 11:10
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Diablo-D3no, I'm saying smart hardware can be smart.Aug 15 11:10
fewaOK, then why is using a outdated model, of "blocks" that has no reflection on the reality of todays hardware, smart?Aug 15 11:11
fewaCause you havn't actually defended itAug 15 11:12
fewabesides saying that what exists, should exist foreverAug 15 11:12
Diablo-D3fewa: except flash uses blocksAug 15 11:15
Diablo-D3the operations themselves operate on entire blocksAug 15 11:16
Diablo-D3what Im wondering is why sata still uses blocksAug 15 11:19
Diablo-D3since basically you're limiting the hardware from optimizing better block sizes internallyAug 15 11:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] I am off to my brother GL1MST again. Do some groceries and cook his favourite dinner. Not taking my laptop with me this time.Aug 15 11:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] I will install Kubuntu 9.04 on his machine (currently running Windows XP). He has the same desktop as I do (Dell Optiplex GX240).Aug 15 11:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Tested Kubuntu 9.04 on mine, works well. Will add Lancelot (menu) on it. Will be back Sunday evening.Aug 15 11:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin, @schestowitz, @tracyrreed, @har2009: will miss you guys. Will be back on Sunday eve. SHALOM ALEIHEM ;-)Aug 15 11:55
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schestowitz"Sure, it's still big. Yes, it still competes vigorously. But with the odd exception (Bing, perhaps), Microsoft just doesn't seem to have the energy to compete anymore. One indication of this is that most of the dirt that Roy Schestowitz digs up on Microsoft is from old court records. It's as if Microsoft struggles even to be nasty anymore." Aug 15 12:37
schestowitz Not true actually. Microsoft is still doing nasty things, but some are not paying close enough attention.Aug 15 12:37
amarsh04hi schestowitz, been doing the back and forth between telstra and my isp getting to the source of adsl drop-outsAug 15 12:39
schestowitzThat's OK. I'm just never sure which account to highlight when addressing you with a message.Aug 15 12:40
amarsh04sorry... I like to leave myself connected when going out and catch up on the channel when I get backAug 15 12:41
schestowitzCensorship in Venezuela now... 15 12:43
schestowitz"In the weeks following the atomic attacks on Japan 64 years ago, and then for decades afterward, the United States engaged in airtight suppression of all film shot in Hiroshima and Nagasaki after the bombings." 15 12:48
oiaohmschestowitz:  ms is weaker than they have been for a long time at doing evil things.Aug 15 12:54
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oiaohmGo back 5 years had a market lock and could basically do what ever they wantted and have it work.Aug 15 12:55
amarsh04I'd like to see a few more IT managers or better yet PHB's fired for using Microsoft productsAug 15 12:56
oiaohmamarsh04: will in time.Aug 15 12:57
oiaohmFew missing bits before that starts.Aug 15 12:58
amarsh04South Australian government and Adelaide uni would be good places to startAug 15 12:58
fewaRMS: "The reason I supported the invasion of Afghanistan was because the Taliban were cruel to women. If the current government is cruel to them too, there is no reason to spend a dime, or a life, to defend it."Aug 15 12:58
oiaohmADS for samba will most likely start of NAS server makers competting in the SBS market.Aug 15 12:58
fewaStallman doesnt understand that invasions only hurt such thingsAug 15 12:58
fewaThere is no way violence can bring peace and civil rightsAug 15 12:59
oiaohmTaliban was supported into to power by the USA.Aug 15 12:59
fewaExactlyAug 15 12:59
fewa^^^^^Aug 15 12:59
fewaIn a coup de teAug 15 12:59
oiaohmThe it was the USA resoponsablity to clean up the problem they created.Aug 15 13:00
fewawut?Aug 15 13:00
fewahow does more violence help?Aug 15 13:00
oiaohmviolence was already happening.Aug 15 13:00
fewaIt was a war over control over drug money, nothing moreAug 15 13:00
oiaohmPeople forget how many people the Taliban was already killing.Aug 15 13:01
fewaWe wanted a single drug lord that would be our guyAug 15 13:01
amarsh04oiaohm, did you notice that in the race to develop swine flu vaccines, there was some trouble attracting volunteers in Adelaide?Aug 15 13:01
oiaohmUSA forces tryed leave the drugs alone.Aug 15 13:02
oiaohmamarsh04:  no one wants to be first.Aug 15 13:02
fewaamarsh04, NAFTA caused the swine fluAug 15 13:02
fewalax mexican regulation, that hurts american consumersAug 15 13:02
amarsh04I took part in the Flinders University trial... I'd done so last year for regular flu and so far have suffered no ill effectsAug 15 13:02
oiaohmLack of boarder controls caused swine flu to spreed.Aug 15 13:03
fewaoiaohm, no before thatAug 15 13:03
amarsh04swine flu spread more quickly in Victoria than other Australian states, not sure whyAug 15 13:03
fewa" Yeah, that’s right, Amy. I think it’s been a very clear intention from our governments not to really excavate further into which are the roots and the causes that have—you know, that are behind this health crisis, this near pandemic that we’re living today. Well, the World Health Organization has already called it a pandemic, and they say it’s unstoppable. But if we don’t redress the whole economic model that stands on the lack of enviAug 15 13:03
fewaronmental and labor—the exploitation of environmental and labor lack of regulations and enforcement, we will continue to see the multiplication of this kind of crisis."Aug 15 13:03
fewa 15 13:04
oiaohmamarsh04:  tempeture.Aug 15 13:04
oiaohmIts been a trend of swine flu world wide.   Particular temp ranges increase its spreed rate.Aug 15 13:04
oiaohmWith good board controls it should have never got into Australia.Aug 15 13:05
oiaohmWe are too much of a jet world.Aug 15 13:06
schestowitzDisease has no passportAug 15 13:08
schestowitzIt's wrong to assume that border control can stop people from movingAug 15 13:08
schestowitzOr air-borne germs from traveling.Aug 15 13:09
fewa^^^Aug 15 13:09
schestowitzSame with pollutionAug 15 13:09
fewadiseases always pass between bordersAug 15 13:09
fewainevitableAug 15 13:09
schestowitzYes, that's my pointAug 15 13:09
oiaohmIn the case of australia there is a huge area of natural protection.Aug 15 13:09
fewaoiaohm, that just means when it hits its more destructiveAug 15 13:09
oiaohmShort range spread diseases like swine flu could be blocked.Aug 15 13:10
oiaohmWe have enough nasty viruses in this country already.Aug 15 13:10
oiaohmhendra virus is particularly one you don't want getting out or australia if it comes human to human spreeding.Aug 15 13:12
oiaohmsince it already has a high kill rate.Aug 15 13:12
schestowitzWhy make such a preparatory post? (A Big Operating System Benchmark Comparison)Aug 15 13:14
oiaohmIts more getting OS listings for it schestowitzAug 15 13:17
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schestowitz Google Wrestles Microsoft for Media Spotlight < > But it's not about Microsoft. It's about MPEG and other such formatsAug 15 13:22
schestowitz'Standards'Aug 15 13:22
amarsh04back soon, trying new grub and new kernelAug 15 13:28
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oiaohmStandards are becoming more and more battle grounds.Aug 15 13:29
Eruaranhi guysAug 15 13:30
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @Glinner: Even the Mail loves the NHS! Today. #welovethenhsAug 15 13:32
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schestowitz Summer Movies We're Afraid to See: Walt Disney's Air Linux < >Aug 15 13:51
schestowitz"we are basically a Linux based development team, so all the technology related activities are really Linux-centric. " From IndiaAug 15 13:54
schestowitzAnother company is getting away from Windows: 15 14:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Classic promise: "Hypervisor technology claimed 100 percent bug-free" < > It is not feasible to make it big-free at ...Aug 15 14:18
schestowitzUbuntu netbook is colored to match < >Aug 15 14:19
schestowitz*bug-free at this scale [typo]Aug 15 14:19
MinceRuglyAug 15 14:19
oiaohm100 percent bug free is possiable in theory.Aug 15 14:20
MinceRbesides they've said that karmic is going to be non-brownAug 15 14:20
schestowitzMinceR: yeahAug 15 14:22
schestowitzPDF Mod Edits Multi-Page PDFs in Linux < >Aug 15 14:22
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, for small programsAug 15 14:22
schestowitzIn practiceAug 15 14:22
schestowitzMinceR: oh noes. Hurry up and tell them to order different chassis for 9.10Aug 15 14:22
schestowitzApple's products are mostly toilet-whiteAug 15 14:23
oiaohmBiggest fall down for that Hypervisor is the compiler is not audited.Aug 15 14:25
schestowitzChipsets tooAug 15 14:32
schestowitzRadiation on the pathsAug 15 14:32
schestowitzbblAug 15 14:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Sorry guys, I have decided not to go to my brother (GL1MST) this weekend. I am spending too much time over there.Aug 15 14:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Don't want to miss the har2009 event. (Listening to their streaming radio show).Aug 15 14:47
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twitterugh!  ->  The color U.S. military footage would remain hidden until the early 1980s, and has never been fully aired. It rests today at the National Archives in College Park, Md., in the form of 90,000 feet of raw footage labeled #342 USAF.  I have a VHS copy of all of it todayAug 15 15:38
twitterhe needs to digitize it and stick it on archive.orgAug 15 15:38
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz >_< the seL4 FAQ explicitly says this does not mean "100% bug free"!Aug 15 15:43
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_goblinhello allAug 15 16:10
*_goblin is now known as _GoblinAug 15 16:11
_Goblinthats betterAug 15 16:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] 100 people an hour joining Pirate Party UK 15 16:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] holy crap, orlowski admits when he's wrong about s/t 15 16:26
schestowitzI'll take a look at sokme MSFT news :-DAug 15 16:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard headline is the same though. The only scandal is 'paytard' Orlowski botching a smear jobAug 15 16:50
p_mashojoin #gitAug 15 17:02
*p_masho oops sorry..Aug 15 17:02
*p_masho what an idiot .. rofl!!Aug 15 17:03
Diablo-D3doublefailAug 15 17:08
schestowitzIs this a  joke? "Under plans to be outlined on Monday, every patient would have a username and password and IT firms such as Google or Microsoft could host the information." 15 17:10
schestowitzyay! Let's give Ballmer's people entire medical data, tooAug 15 17:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz "we accept that" in a retraction is legal phrasing.Aug 15 17:10
p_mashono it was a genuine mistake.. thats why I'm one of them sad people laughing at myself on a rainy saturday afternoon in wales...Aug 15 17:14
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schestowitzMicrosoft's Zune HD Could Be Too Little, Too Late 15 17:17
schestowitzp_masho: Diablo-D3 is typically very rudeAug 15 17:17
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schestowitzHe speaks only for himselfAug 15 17:18
schestowitzXarver: hiAug 15 17:18
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schestowitzWatching Microsoft news has become fun because a lot goes badly for them while opening doors to FOSSAug 15 17:18
Xarverhi schestowitzAug 15 17:18
schestowitzMicrosoft is back to 'bribing' customers. 15 17:18
schestowitzBribing as CNET and others called itAug 15 17:19
schestowitzFor some reason, Microsoft employees found it offensive when I said Microsoft bribes, even though I did supply a lot of evidence. THe employees did not link to it thoughAug 15 17:19
schestowitzRather, they made a comparison between me and... Unabomber ! :-)  HahahaAug 15 17:20
schestowitzNo headline about Vista this weekAug 15 17:20
schestowitzOnly 10 about "dows 7"Aug 15 17:21
p_mashoso is one of you folks here running the blog ?Aug 15 17:21
schestowitzp_masho: mostly group effort with me editing itAug 15 17:21
Diablo-D3[12:17:12] <schestowitz> yay! Let's give Ballmer's people entire medical data, tooAug 15 17:21
Diablo-D3schestowitz: I dont mind Ballmer knowing my medical dataAug 15 17:22
schestowitzDiablo-D3 is here mostly insulting people, repelling themAug 15 17:22
Diablo-D3somewhere in my medical records it states I have a 12 inch dickAug 15 17:22
Diablo-D3I have no problem with him knowing my dick is 11 inches bigger than hisAug 15 17:22
schestowitzSee? Now you're filling the channel with junk againAug 15 17:22
p_mashomaybe he's a bot ?Aug 15 17:22
schestowitzStop doing it to drive people away. Grow upAug 15 17:22
schestowitzp_masho: bad, bad botAug 15 17:23
Diablo-D3p_masho: I am not a botAug 15 17:23
Diablo-D3schestowitz: and Im not driving people awayAug 15 17:23
p_mashoschestowitz: nice effort there.. except maybe you shouls just create boycott microsoft as well..Aug 15 17:23
p_mashoDiablo-D3: prove to me you are not a botAug 15 17:23
Diablo-D3p_masho: bots dont have 12 inch dicksAug 15 17:23
p_mashofirst what is a bot? and what is 12 inches long and sitts in a bottle ?Aug 15 17:24
*p_masho tooring testAug 15 17:24
p_mashoDiablo-D3: have you eaten an apple recently ?Aug 15 17:25
Diablo-D3okay I give up, whats 12 inches long and sits in a bottleAug 15 17:25
schestowitzOK, enough with thisAug 15 17:25
schestowitzIt adds no value to the coversationAug 15 17:25
schestowitzAnd it's vulgarAug 15 17:26
*p_masho sorryAug 15 17:26
p_mashowhats your take on the SCO saga ?Aug 15 17:26
schestowitzLater you have our adversaries quoting this stuff to say "this is what BN is like"Aug 15 17:26
schestowitzp_masho: it's over, almostAug 15 17:26
Diablo-D3man, SCO was over before it startedAug 15 17:26
p_mashoi know been following it closely..Aug 15 17:27
schestowitzSCO can't get money selling asetsAug 15 17:27
schestowitz*assetsAug 15 17:27
Diablo-D3you know what I dont like about SCO though?Aug 15 17:27
schestowitzTheir trustee won't let themAug 15 17:27
Diablo-D3its obviously a microsoft plotAug 15 17:27
p_mashowill be interesting to see where IT ends up ie Unix ?Aug 15 17:27
schestowitzIt's not quiteAug 15 17:27
schestowitzJust a combinationAug 15 17:27
Diablo-D3schestowitz: btw, if I was their trustee I wouldnt let them either... you know why?Aug 15 17:27
schestowitzMicrosoft and others seeing how it helps themAug 15 17:27
schestowitzMaybe making a call to Darl, Sun, BayStar others, over timeAug 15 17:27
Diablo-D3what is SCO famous for? ding ding ding: claiming something was theirs and it wasntAug 15 17:27
schestowitzTHey DID invest in SCOAug 15 17:27
p_mashoshould be interesting to see what "assetts" the trustee comes up with ..Aug 15 17:27
schestowitzWhat we don't know if whether they came to SCO to START the lawsuitAug 15 17:28
Diablo-D3SCO's assets is basically office furnitureAug 15 17:28
schestowitzAnd SUN's CEO said a company asked them to do something similarAug 15 17:28
Diablo-D3schestowitz: yeah, but Sun couldnt gain from itAug 15 17:28
Diablo-D3Sun was already investing in Linux at that pointAug 15 17:28
schestowitzDiablo-D3: You can f* kill Google with office furniture. Ask BallmerAug 15 17:28
p_mashoits interesting for me though..Aug 15 17:28
Diablo-D3schestowitz: man, Ballmer scares meAug 15 17:29
p_mashoI dont think you'd even get that case to UK court..Aug 15 17:29
schestowitzIt'll be good if gentleman like Schmidt replaced himAug 15 17:29
schestowitz*menAug 15 17:29
Diablo-D3I dont know why Microsoft keeps doing this shit thoughAug 15 17:29
p_mashogoogle schmit ?Aug 15 17:29
Diablo-D3like, if I was Bill Gates, I'd fire BallmerAug 15 17:29
p_mashomaybe mark shuttleworth will buy it ?Aug 15 17:30
schestowitzWe don't need countries that are run by a God-dictated imperialist and IT run by some lunaticAug 15 17:30
schestowitzThe software industry suffered severly from MicrosofgtAug 15 17:30
schestowitzTHe Internet stil suffers from itAug 15 17:30
schestowitzWe slowed down science where it mattersAug 15 17:30
Diablo-D3schestowitz: I still believe Microsoft could be a useful assetAug 15 17:30
*p_masho nods in agreement..Aug 15 17:30
schestowitzIntel has a similar effect because it bribed vs AMD, but we have other form factors like phones, so...Aug 15 17:30
Diablo-D3if I had $xxx million laying around, I'd buy itAug 15 17:31
Diablo-D3I seriously wouldAug 15 17:31
p_mashoI write code.. and atmo a 2 year project is waiting for launch and I still bumping into windows problems with pyqt...Aug 15 17:31
schestowitzMicrosoft has OfficeAug 15 17:31
schestowitzIt's the only 'asset'Aug 15 17:31
Diablo-D3p_masho: python and qt both suck on windowsAug 15 17:31
Diablo-D3p_masho: combining them cant possibly be a good ideaAug 15 17:31
schestowitzNot just because of the format monopolyAug 15 17:31
schestowitzWindows is as good as OpenSolaris in the sense that it's obsoleteAug 15 17:31
Diablo-D3schestowitz: opensolaris isn't obsolete though, solaris isAug 15 17:32
schestowitzCode is not pysicalAug 15 17:32
schestowitzYou can't forge two codebases so wellAug 15 17:32
Diablo-D3opensolaris is crap, sure, but they're rapidly moving in a useful directionAug 15 17:32
schestowitzYou just take the better oneAug 15 17:32
schestowitzSame with search engine back endsAug 15 17:32
Diablo-D3noAug 15 17:32
Diablo-D3search engine backends doesnt mean what you think it doesAug 15 17:32
Diablo-D3thats a bad analogyAug 15 17:32
schestowitzOpenSOlaris has no usersAug 15 17:32
schestowitzit's a good OS without many driversAug 15 17:32
Diablo-D3opensolaris has users, but the problem is it's userland is shitAug 15 17:33
p_mashothe combination I'm using of pyqt+python with tortoise svn works perfectly in my situation - I can hot patch from home direct to client..Aug 15 17:33
Diablo-D3schestowitz: again, not trueAug 15 17:33
Diablo-D3schestowitz: opensolaris is rapidly gaining driversAug 15 17:33
schestowitzFine.Aug 15 17:33
schestowitzBut it's not as widely deployed as LinuxAug 15 17:33
Diablo-D3I actually wish opensolaris was deadAug 15 17:33
Diablo-D3you and I agree thereAug 15 17:33
schestowitzAnd won't be any time soon cause of EllisonAug 15 17:33
schestowitzbrbAug 15 17:33
Diablo-D3p_masho: its not as good as everything on linux thoughAug 15 17:33
Diablo-D3if windows gained the usability of linux, linux would be deadAug 15 17:34
Diablo-D3hope and pray microsoft never discovers thisAug 15 17:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vista 7 is going to be messy based on the writings on the walll.. (Windows 7 XP Mode Hits Patch Of Turbulence)Aug 15 17:35
p_mashowell maybe I'm biased cos I'm here with Gnome and writing a pyqt app, with diual screen and it works cool.Aug 15 17:36
p_mashothe app's end target it windows..Aug 15 17:37
schestowitzDelusion. Aug 15 17:39
schestowitzWindows 7 and its biggest rival – XP?Aug 15 17:39
schestowitzSo, since nobody has come forward with this killer feature and nobody can even highlight a killer feature that can be done in 7 that can’t in Linux I can only conclude that there isn’t one and the only draw I can see for Windows 7 is that “its better than Vista”.  Maybe if you are an unhappy Vista user you can consider trying an alternative first to see if like me the dependency on Microsoft products is simply an addiction Aug 15 17:39
schestowitzwhich really has no relevance in modern computing?Aug 15 17:39
schestowitz 15 17:39
p_mashosI just saw windows 7 last week.. looks like a rip off of kde4Aug 15 17:39
schestowitzYes, so I hear. I didn't try VIsta 7Aug 15 17:40
schestowitzI never tried VIsta, except for a few minutes at Dixons att he airportAug 15 17:40
schestowitzIt's black XPAug 15 17:40
schestowitzOn more powerful processors, obviously, for all that secretive bloat layerAug 15 17:41
p_mashoanyway microsoft always follows a market so its predicable at least..Aug 15 17:41
schestowitzfor (i=1:100000) sleep(1);  // slow down system//   /* must help Intel sell new processors */Aug 15 17:41
schestowitzClassic IDG: Sony's PS4 Coming Before Microsoft's Xbox Next? < >Aug 15 17:42
schestowitzHave a look. NOTHING about PS4Aug 15 17:42
schestowitzJust some shiny headlines with imaginary products and some ramble about Carmack.Aug 15 17:43
schestowitzUseless tripe filling up the feedsAug 15 17:43
schestowitzI quite like what TechDirt does to news site, exposing the ills of the system where so-called "IP" is concernedAug 15 17:44
p_mashoschestowitz: so u a developer, journalist, hacker, CEO, senator ?Aug 15 17:44
schestowitzSavio: Inspired by Office -- Why? < >Aug 15 17:45
schestowitzp_masho: citizenAug 15 17:45
schestowitzLawyers rule the nest: (McKool Smith: Judge Upholds Verdict, Enhances Damages, Issues Permanent Injunction Against Microsoft in Patent Infringement Lawsuit)Aug 15 17:47
p_mashoschestowitz: hey u want a BOT fot this channel ? am serious ?Aug 15 17:47
schestowitzLots of meta industries: lawyers, bankers, marketing... even Einstein wasted his talent as a clerk in the patent officeAug 15 17:48
p_mashoschestowitz: your in the states ? ie USA ?Aug 15 17:49
p_mashoschestowitz: cheer up friend..Aug 15 17:49
p_mashoThings are not as bad as them seem.. News is getting around, linux and free stuff is out there and its will be there forever..Aug 15 17:50
schestowitzNo, not the USAug 15 17:51
p_mashoIn a way I hope all MEGA coporations WIN, so they clamp down on peoples lives so much, they totally and outright reject it...Aug 15 17:51
schestowitzI spoke about this earlier at the gym... some say the news tries getting people downAug 15 17:51
schestowitzBut I think it's the oppositeAug 15 17:51
schestowitz 15 17:52
schestowitzfewa cited itAug 15 17:52
p_mashoschestowitz: where ?Aug 15 17:52
schestowitzAmy Goodman suggests the media tries to get people isolated and weaker so that they concede their rights and maybe become more hostileAug 15 17:52
schestowitzNow, I think it's a little bit the oppositeAug 15 17:53
schestowitzTHey downplay the issue so that people optimistically carry onAug 15 17:53
schestowitzCompanies strive to increase profit without any account for externalities like the environmentAug 15 17:53
schestowitzp_masho: fewa cited it earlier. This morning's discussionAug 15 17:54
schestowitzPeople can't reject that it's a partly political issue. Not just freedom vs closeness and exc. ownershipAug 15 17:54
schestowitzThis was recognised at early days at advocacy. Some people prefer not to be seen as antagonising parts of the system, Torvalds for exampleAug 15 17:55
schestowitzWikipedia still lists his dad as one among those 'Reds' in FinlandAug 15 17:55
schestowitzHis dad, unlike the son, was a political activist. AFAICT, Linus distances itself from this, and someone from Finland showed me this (via email)Aug 15 17:56
p_mashoschestowitz: your moving the debate from being about Novell to the actual breakdown of commerce + societyAug 15 17:56
p_mashomaybe a lot of people believe what they read, written by someone else..Aug 15 17:57
p_mashoOk I'll nobble my part.. with Novell.. lets start there..Aug 15 17:57
p_mashoFirst they come up with a cool system 3.5 and big manuals and box.Aug 15 17:58
schestowitzthere are rumours about an Apple tabletAug 15 17:58
p_mashoit works it really fst and great and "its part of the cost" of running business... that was around mid ninties..Aug 15 17:58
schestowitzApple must be reluctant to enter low-end versus Linux. Very small margins cannibalising Apple's other toysAug 15 17:59
p_mashoHow we already have a new operating system and ALL the applications ready to go.. for FREE...Aug 15 17:59
p_mashoschestowitz: its a business reality..Aug 15 17:59
schestowitzYes, but many things are like thatAug 15 18:00
p_mashoMy brothers run a company that sell/supply/deliver/24/7 small bsuinesses locally...Aug 15 18:00
schestowitzYou don't need to pay for oxygenAug 15 18:00
schestowitzNor for logical code that runs programs on an arch of choiceAug 15 18:00
p_mashohowever almost all the applications are windows. so thats the choice..Aug 15 18:00
schestowitzThese are not real physical assets,except oxygenAug 15 18:00
p_mashoits a platform..Aug 15 18:00
schestowitzOxygen should 'cost' more than codeAug 15 18:00
schestowitzp_masho: you mean DESKTOP applications\Aug 15 18:01
p_mashoas a developer and writing "bespoke" I'm mixing..Aug 15 18:01
p_mashoyesAug 15 18:01
schestowitzPlatform->APIsAug 15 18:01
schestowitzMicrosoft makes its own APIs on purposeAug 15 18:01
p_mashoa cool product is Interbase.. oops now ? wahteverAug 15 18:01
schestowitzApplications should plug into any arch and platformAug 15 18:01
p_mashoprecisely.Aug 15 18:02
schestowitzUnless, for (anti)competitive reasons, 'free' market if you will, you stifle thisAug 15 18:02
p_mashoso I'm writing my app in python 2.6Aug 15 18:02
p_mashowith pyqtAug 15 18:02
schestowitzThe Mono boys are trying to stick more Microsoft APIs in LinuxAug 15 18:02
schestowitzLinux the kernel, tooAug 15 18:02
schestowitzThey put Hyper-V hooks in there, using NovellAug 15 18:02
p_mashowriting the code here at my home office on a dual screen ubuntu/gnome.. and maintaing the online server from hereAug 15 18:03
p_mashoand users checkout from my svn directly to their machine..Aug 15 18:03
p_mashoMone is pontless..Aug 15 18:03
p_mashooops MONO IS POINTLESSAug 15 18:03
schestowitzA guy who used to do contract work for Microsoft sent me the following E-mail yesterdayAug 15 18:03
schestowitz==Aug 15 18:03
schestowitz"We (the Debian CLI Libraries Team) are packaging IronRuby, IronPythonAug 15 18:03
schestowitzand the Dynamic Language Runtime for Debian.  Much of the source in thisAug 15 18:03
schestowitzpackage is released under the Microsoft Public License:Aug 15 18:03
schestowitz;a=blob;f=debian/copyright;h=74dc4d7f7144e9a0251fa2a32177332a01558d84;hb=f3c10b84cf5f12cb670d14232263ac81662ff714Aug 15 18:03
schestowitzI asked my friend Brett if he would help us get it packaged up in RPMAug 15 18:03
schestowitzformat for Fedora.  He tells me that the MS-PL is not on the approvedAug 15 18:03
schestowitzlist for Redhat packages:Aug 15 18:03
schestowitz14:55 < wakko666> cj: my main concern about packaging ironruby is licensing. Aug 15 18:03
schestowitz                  Fedora will accept packages under the MS-Shared-Source Aug 15 18:03
schestowitz                  license, but the MS-PL isn't on their list of acceptable Aug 15 18:03
schestowitz                  license.Aug 15 18:03
schestowitz14:58 < cj> wakko666: alrighty.  jschementi is the guy to talk with about Aug 15 18:03
schestowitz            licensing issues.  He'll be back some time soon, I'm sureAug 15 18:03
schestowitz14:58 < wakko666> of course, i can always write the spec file and you guys can Aug 15 18:03
schestowitz                  host your own rpms, but it would be nice to actually get it Aug 15 18:03
schestowitz                  into Fedora proper.Aug 15 18:03
schestowitz14:59 < cj> also, MS-PL is dfsg compliant and [OSI]-approved.  Is it a decision Aug 15 18:03
schestowitz            to deny MS-PL or that it just hasn't been reviewed yet?Aug 15 18:03
schestowitz14:59 < wakko666> not sure. we'd need to ask on the fedora-legal-list mailing Aug 15 18:03
schestowitz                  listAug 15 18:03
schestowitz14:59 < wakko666> 15 18:03
schestowitz[ed: I mis-wrote OSL-approved]Aug 15 18:03
schestowitz 15 18:03
schestowitzI do not see MS-PL on the DFSG wiki page:Aug 15 18:03
schestowitz 15 18:03
schestowitzHowever, Mono contains code licensed under MS-PL and it is part of theAug 15 18:03
schestowitzmain section, implying that it is compliant:Aug 15 18:03
schestowitz;a=blob;f=debian/copyright;h=3426e0c3f05891a267ebef547490c8dae999da96;hb=8b65c7c94ae3c808859fb1f2b90aeac92abc53e9Aug 15 18:03
schestowitzAre the MS-PL pieces of Mono stripped from the Fedora package of Mono?Aug 15 18:03
schestowitzmcs/class/MicrosoftAjaxLibrary/*Aug 15 18:03
schestowitzmcs/class/System.Web.Mvc/*Aug 15 18:03
schestowitzLooking forward to your response,Aug 15 18:03
schestowitz==Aug 15 18:03
p_mashoI tried it 3 times in the last 18 months ish and xplatform dont work. period ITS a bad idea..Aug 15 18:04
schestowitzEven licnce poisoningAug 15 18:04
schestowitzWHich platforms?Aug 15 18:04
schestowitzPOSIX/Aug 15 18:04
*p_masho is there anything postitive on thsi channel ?Aug 15 18:06
schestowitzGoogle Caffeine Gets Two Thumbs Up < >Aug 15 18:07
schestowitzp_masho: sureAug 15 18:07
schestowitzBut it discusses issue a lot of the time. There's also advocacy and spreading of the good news, at intervalsAug 15 18:08
p_mashogood I want to be the advacado + good news also ;-)Aug 15 18:09
p_mashoI have my lines now for dealing with "MD's" of small companies..Aug 15 18:10
schestowitzHmmmm.... it gets rainy here. Was nice and sunny an hour ago.Aug 15 18:10
schestowitzp_masho: do you read the daily links in BN?Aug 15 18:10
schestowitzIt's only good news thereAug 15 18:10
schestowitz 15 18:11
p_mashoits on my "speed dial".. on a tab called FOO.. along with /. groklaw order and other titilations.Aug 15 18:11
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yuhongBTW, it would be nice if you could elaberate on why 451 Group is better than the other analysts.Aug 15 18:13
*p_masho to MD at last meeting as it almost finished -- aham another think folks, make sure the version of WORD you using is legit in its counry of origin. There's a new court runing out in the USA and effectively you will geet a forces update that will actually leave your files there.. but you wont be able to read them"..Aug 15 18:13
*p_masho answer was ".. but their my files".. i replied".. no their not, their bound in an american patent".. she anwered "so I better save the copy as text theren...??"Aug 15 18:14
p_mashoschestowitz: u the designer fo the site...Aug 15 18:15
p_mashoCan teh website be changed to being "dynamic layout and wide pease".. its web2 time....Aug 15 18:16
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schestowitzHmmmmm..Aug 15 18:39
*yuhong has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Aug 15 18:39
schestowitzMy plugin for YouTube download stopped workingAug 15 18:39
schestowitzI used it for Oggs in BNAug 15 18:39
schestowitzGrreasemonkey issue maybeAug 15 18:39
schestowitzp_masho: too complex to change site layout now. Too much depends on itAug 15 18:40
schestowitzDamn... I hate it when plugins get messed up. THat's why distros stick with stableAug 15 18:40
trmancololAug 15 18:41
trmancoI actually like bleeding edgeAug 15 18:41
trmancoat least this way you can't get too lazyAug 15 18:42
p_mashotrmanco: precisely..Aug 15 18:42
trmancoI'm glad you agree :>Aug 15 18:43
schestowitzTough time near Microsoft: 15 18:43
schestowitztrmanco: YouTube downloaders have always been touch and go. YouTube changes stuffAug 15 18:44
schestowitzHad YouTube used <Video> and Ogg, it would not be necessaryAug 15 18:44
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schestowitzPeople could not buy a house in Wal-martAug 15 18:47
schestowitzIt seems the media doesn't cover the phenomenon of tent cities quite as much as it should.Aug 15 18:47
schestowitzSell house, buy tent.. nobody even alerts the public about itAug 15 18:48
schestowitzMicrosoft Explains Why VMware Acquisition Will Fail 15 18:53
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schestowitzSome say Microsoft killed Halo the move, Microsoft denies. 15 18:54
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schestowitzMicrosoft knew of critical Office ActiveX bug in '07 <  >Aug 15 18:58
schestowitzWhy is this in the news headline? Microsoft program manager sells Sammamish East 4BD < >Aug 15 19:03
schestowitzI'm starting to think that David Coursey  is just a provocateur like Randall... now he also smashes Microsoft.. 15 19:13
schestowitzPreston Gralla Aug 15 19:15
schestowitz"How Microsoft got its mojo back"Aug 15 19:15
schestowitzThe shills hardly try to hide themselves anymore. Very sloppy.Aug 15 19:15
schestowitzNothing about Silver Lie this week, other than some new distributor. Good. It's not going anywhere and the Web will stay accessible to GNU/Linux users.Aug 15 19:22
schestowitz "It's not often that I give a thumbs-up to a program that's as buggy as Thunderbird..." What?????? I've used Thunderbird since 1.0 or earlier and it's actually very polished, except the newer RSS bitsAug 15 19:24
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schestowitz 15 19:53
ThistleWebjust read that blog, the dude has a good pointAug 15 20:09
ThistleWebI was thinking a desktop shortcut solution before I got to the part in the post where he suggests that tooAug 15 20:10
ThistleWebthe proprietary codec issue is always gonna be a stumbling block for linux, when most of the web and it's users use themAug 15 20:12
schestowitzIntroducing the LEGO Netbook 15 20:23
schestowitzThistleWeb: there used to be AutomatixAug 15 20:24
ThistleWebI beleive there still is, but how visible is it when you install ubuntu?Aug 15 20:25
schestowitzThere's a lot of provocation coming from SD Times recently. 'End of days for Sun' < >Aug 15 20:25
ThistleWebfor peeps who are new and dont know why the codecs aren't there, is it easy for them to see that, why and how to fix itAug 15 20:25
schestowitzThere are tip lists out thereAug 15 20:25
ThistleWebyeah, but a shortcut to a page on the ubuntu site with a full walkthrough of enabling the medibuntu, then sudo apt-get install ..... wouldn't go a missAug 15 20:26
ThistleWebas well as a "why we cant ship it ready done for you"Aug 15 20:27
schestowitz 15 20:28
schestowitzComplainersAug 15 20:28
schestowitzQuick and dirty blogAug 15 20:28
schestowitzOpenSolaris Receives New X.Org VT Support 15 20:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Thom Holwerda used to be a journalist on OSNews? Now he just posts personal rants, mocking free software. How sad.Aug 15 20:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Tips from the Experts 15 20:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] House Analogy for Free Software versus Non-Free Software 15 20:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] What If GNU/Linux Was in Disney Films 15 20:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @popey yes, myself and others unsubscribed from OS News last year when he started this nonsense (Microsoft PR 24/7)Aug 15 20:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Games Come to GNU/Linux (New and Old) 15 20:56
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Firefox Web Browser Reaches Version 3.7 as Nightly 15 21:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Founder of Netscape to Create a Web Browser 15 21:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Review of the New KOffice 15 21:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Performance Assessment of the New Arch Linux 15 21:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[nickballard] Waiting at the philly shop. Well worth the time.Aug 15 21:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @ml2mst Take care! Speak to you Sunday!Aug 15 21:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Gentoo Audiocast 15 21:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Local Press Hails Red Hat Upon Anniversary 15 21:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ubuntu 9.10 - Latest Screenshots 15 21:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Debian Family DerivativeHannah Montana in Review 15 21:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] HMI Module Runs Debian GNU/Linux 15 21:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] SDG Systems Might be Giving up on Windows and Moving to Linux 15 21:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Apple At Risk from Linux Phones 15 21:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Sub-notebooks Cope Well with Xfce (and Vice Versa) 15 21:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] FreeBSD 8.0 is Coming Soon 15 21:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Altruism Builds Powerful and Free Software 15 21:30
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Communication Already in Trouble 15 21:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Artists Find New Distribution Modalities 15 21:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another Artist Turns Against the MAFIAA 15 21:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Oh My Word – How Patently Stupid 15 21:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Flaming Lips Embrace Free Software-Like Business Model (Sell Labour, Not 'Code') 15 21:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft "Search Bribes" Are back 15 21:48
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Antitrust Barriers Over Microsoft's Corporate Abuse of Yahoo! 15 21:50
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft's David Zilkha in the Midst of SEC Investigation 15 21:52
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] oh dear what a pity never mind 15 21:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vista 7 Looks Ugly Already, Microsoft's Enderle Shill Talks Vista 8 Vapourware Vista 7 Looks Ugly Already, Microsoft's Enderle Shill Tal ...Aug 15 21:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Juniper Becomes Windows Vassal After Putting Microsoft Executives at Top... The people running this company (including CEO) are from Mic ...Aug 15 22:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Massive Layoffs Rumoured at Microsoft, Refresh Needed Urgently 15 22:01
desu◄BNc/#boycottnovell► [schestowitz] House Analogy for Free Software versus Non-Free Software <--- can anyone check if this link still works or if it's just me?Aug 15 22:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Gates Foundation Messes with Drugs 15 22:03
schestowitzdesu: let's see...Aug 15 22:03
schestowitzHmmmmmm...Aug 15 22:04
schestowitzDon't know what happened there.Aug 15 22:04
schestowitzMaybe they change.Aug 15 22:04
schestowitz 15 22:04
schestowitzVery different URLAug 15 22:04
desu 15 22:04
desuworksAug 15 22:04
desuadd a Z to the end of the urlAug 15 22:04
schestowitzWill doAug 15 22:04
desuapparently, the only difference is the hyphens :DAug 15 22:05
desuand some other minore stuffAug 15 22:05
desu*minorAug 15 22:05
desug'nightAug 15 22:05
schestowitzYou tooAug 15 22:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Zune Too Little To Late (Nice Memorabilia Though) 15 22:08
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft-Intel Collusion is Destroying Fine Products 15 22:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Works great on Sub-notebooks 15 22:14
fewaschestowitz, thats brutalAug 15 22:20
MinceRdell once again shows they're in bed with m$Aug 15 22:21
fewaI booted up Linux on a my counsins computer and she didn't even noticeAug 15 22:23
fewajust click on firefox icon and was offAug 15 22:24
fewaThe netbook sellers just need to go back to LinuxAug 15 22:27
MinceRdell won't do thatAug 15 22:27
fewaand Microsoft needs to be presecuted for this clearly anti-competitive actAug 15 22:27
fewait clearly violates the first-sale doctrine at leastAug 15 22:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] gosh, America is so lucky not to have to have the NHS #welovethenhsAug 15 22:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @schestowitz: GNU/Linux also works great on my Acer Aspire 7220 laptop, better than pre installed Windows Vista. Using Ubuntu 9.04 on it.Aug 15 22:33
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @schestowitz: Also works great on my Dell Optiplex GX240, running Fedora 10/KDE 4.2.0 with Lancelot menu on it.Aug 15 22:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] The brutal truth about America’s healthcare, Remote Area Medical charity medical care 15 22:35
schestowitzfewa: 15 22:35
schestowitzfewa: yes, seen itAug 15 22:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @schestowitz: Running Debian "Leny" on my old school Cyrix IIM, with only 64 MiB EDO-RAM with LXDE and mostly Bash. Runs just fine ;-)Aug 15 22:36
Diablo-D3lol edo dramsAug 15 22:36
Diablo-D3you know whats funny? everything after edo uses that techniqueAug 15 22:36
MinceRit's Lenny, not Leny :>Aug 15 22:37
MinceR(and runs just fine on my ThinkPad W700 ;) )Aug 15 22:37
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fewaYes sessions is a racistAug 15 22:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @schestowitz: Once you are used to GNU/Linux, you will never turn back to the massacre which is called Microsoft Windows IMHO.Aug 15 22:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @schestowitz: MS Windows is a piece of junk compared to GNU/Linux. If you are a "average" user, simply give Mandriva a shot.Aug 15 22:46
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] How Darwin did it 15 22:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @ml2mst : yes, I can trust Mandriva when recommending it. My brother uses it.Aug 15 23:02
schestowitzHeh. Darwin still disputed. Aug 15 23:02
schestowitz 15 23:02
schestowitzPeople will carry on believing what they WANT to believeAug 15 23:02
MinceRi prefer Linux to Darwin.Aug 15 23:03
schestowitz The Matrix Movie MistakesAug 15 23:14
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @schestowitz: You are using Mandriva to, as far as I know. It has *great* hardware recognition. Better than Windwoes IMHO.Aug 15 23:20
fewa,4149,Dembski-Exam,William-A-Dembski---designinferencecomAug 15 23:22
fewa"provide at least 10 posts defending ID that you’ve made on “hostile” websites, the posts totalling 2,000 words, along with the URLs (i.e., web links) to each post (worth 20% of your grade)."Aug 15 23:22
Diablo-D3manAug 15 23:24
Diablo-D3you know it was hot outAug 15 23:24
Diablo-D3when its 72 and you can go outside and you can feel the heat radiating off the groundAug 15 23:24
fewa72?Aug 15 23:24
Diablo-D3fAug 15 23:24
schestowitzThis is a good explanatory video with some physics: 15 23:24
fewayeah, but thats hot?Aug 15 23:25
Diablo-D3fewa: no, its 72 _now_Aug 15 23:25
Diablo-D3it hit like 95 todayAug 15 23:25
fewaI mean I live in washington, 72 is actually quite warm hereAug 15 23:25
fewaahaAug 15 23:25
Diablo-D3Im saying, it got a lot cooler and @ 72 the ground is still 95 x_xAug 15 23:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] US best health (rich) = UK worst (poor), at twice the price per head #welovethenhsAug 15 23:26
schestowitzThis one's more advanced: 15 23:36
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schestowitzDid you know that Information Week actually published a press release inviting people to read the FUD item ("Linux irrelevant") and put similarly provocative statements in the press release asking for subscribers? I find this appalling, TBH. I only found this out the following day.Aug 15 23:54

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