IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 21st, 2009

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taconeLA LENTA, costante scalata di Bing, il nuovo motore di ricerca di Microsoft, verso i vertici, sempre lontanissimi, di Google, continua inarrestabile.Aug 21 00:12
taconeTHE SLOW, constant Bing rise, the new Microsoft search engine, towards the, so very far, Google, continues unstoppable.Aug 21 00:13
tacone 21 00:13
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schestowitztacone: only in the US will they really explore this BongAug 21 00:29
schestowitzmaybe the advertising is greater thereAug 21 00:29
schestowitzMaybe people more gullibleAug 21 00:29
schestowitzMaybe Microsoft more liked, I dunno..Aug 21 00:29
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ThistleWebits a US company, it's patriotic to support itAug 21 00:35
LnsI thought outsourcing was patriotic...Aug 21 00:36
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schestowitzLns: patriotic to whom? :-)Aug 21 00:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Hijacks Maharashtra’s Education, to Teach Many Children How to Smoke Windows 21 00:57
schestowitzElite class is not a nationAug 21 00:57
Lnsschestowitz: might as well beAug 21 00:58
Lnsthat's who we salute our work, money and lives to (maybe without realization of course)Aug 21 00:59
schestowitzWhere will they live?Aug 21 00:59
schestowitzCan they be sent to an island?Aug 21 00:59
schestowitzThat would resolve MANY issues, you know?Aug 21 00:59
schestowitzJust build fences to protect them. Call it Alcatraz or something. /sarcasAug 21 01:00
Lns(i was just responding to your comment on supporting companies being patriotic..dunno what the convo is about ;) )Aug 21 01:00
schestowitzIt relates to yesterdayAug 21 01:00
Lns?Aug 21 01:01
schestowitzWe were talking about how companies label "bad for business" "anti-Ameican" or "not patriotic"Aug 21 01:01
schestowitzSee the logs from yesterday's IRC sessionAug 21 01:01 is downAug 21 01:02
ThistleWebmaybe it's having a shaveAug 21 01:02
Lnslabels are just that. Ignore them.Aug 21 01:03
schestowitzThistleWeb: OMG. Delilah is killing SamsonAug 21 01:04
ThistleWeblolAug 21 01:04
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schestowitzgnAug 21 01:27
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seller_liarhey roy /Aug 21 02:07
seller_liarinstall semantic wiki pluginAug 21 02:08
seller_liarto help in court ehxibitsAug 21 02:08
seller_liarroy?Aug 21 02:10
seller_liarhey twitterAug 21 02:14
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DaemonFChmmm, my post about playready is on the first page of results for "Windows 7 Playready" in GoogleAug 21 05:27
DaemonFCthat ought to piss them offAug 21 05:27
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DaemonFCschestowitz, 21 06:12
DaemonFC"I kind of take their reply to mean, “Microsoft busted it, it ain’t coming back, there’s a “Media Center” built into Windows, have lots of fun with that.""Aug 21 06:13
DaemonFChehAug 21 06:13
DaemonFCschestowitz, Yahoo is now recommending Internet Explorer 8Aug 21 06:17
neighborleelolAug 21 06:18
neighborleehm well thats odd ;)Aug 21 06:18
DaemonFC 21 06:18
DaemonFCpage of marketing crapAug 21 06:18
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Diablo-D3ehAug 21 06:43
Diablo-D3I cant actually blame microsoftAug 21 06:44
Diablo-D3you know why?Aug 21 06:44
Diablo-D3they'd basically have to embed an entire gdi rendering engine in each appAug 21 06:44
Diablo-D3to fix the problemAug 21 06:44
Diablo-D3due to the fact gdi is absolute fucking shit and was never designed for... well, any hardware made in the past 20 eyarsAug 21 06:44
Diablo-D3windows never had a display server beforeAug 21 06:44
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DaemonFCthe Fixed Noise Channel got rid of Glenn Beck apparentlyAug 21 07:07
DaemonFCmy guess is that enough advertisers are boycotting him that his show is no longer profitable and he's too much of a liability to their networkAug 21 07:08
DaemonFCI just got a referral from this place to my blogAug 21 07:17
DaemonFC 21 07:17
DaemonFClooks like some organization that pays off bloggers to write advertising masquerading as personal opinionAug 21 07:18
DaemonFClooks like someone is also probing Google to see what leads them to my page about PlayReadyAug 21 07:19
Diablo-D3hehAug 21 07:20
Diablo-D3I wonder why people take glenn beck seriouslyAug 21 07:20
Diablo-D3he himself admits hes sorta like john stewartAug 21 07:20
Diablo-D3he exists purely to piss in EVERYBODY's cheeriohsAug 21 07:20
Diablo-D3not just the left or the right or whoever elseAug 21 07:20
Diablo-D3everyoneAug 21 07:20
DaemonFCI've got search referrals from: windows 7 drm “playready”, amc windows 7, windows 7 drm, wtf is playready windows 7, windows media center one channel stutters, and drm windows 7Aug 21 07:21
DaemonFCoh, and "what's playready"Aug 21 07:21
DaemonFC"windows media center drm"Aug 21 07:21
DaemonFC"playready windows 7 bypass"Aug 21 07:22
DaemonFClooks like I'm not the only person that has a problem with that, a few of those look legit, the rest look like someone is testing to see what phrases bring up that pageAug 21 07:22
DaemonFCDiablo-D3: 21 07:29
DaemonFCenjoyAug 21 07:29
Diablo-D3blah fuck myspaceAug 21 07:31
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 21 07:46:27 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovellAug 21 07:46
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Aug 21 07:46
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Fri Jun 12 18:24:05 2009Aug 21 07:46
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelAug 21 07:46
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schestowitzSecurity bugs crawl all over financial giant’s website < >Aug 21 08:11
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Omar87HiAug 21 08:23
Omar87I just wonder, how come Google isn't making a GTalk version for Linux?Aug 21 08:24
DaemonFCcause most of their existing "ports" use Wine libraries?Aug 21 08:25
DaemonFCjust a guessAug 21 08:25
DaemonFCfrom what I've seen, the people porting Chrome have been bitching at every stepAug 21 08:27
DaemonFC 21 08:30
DaemonFCthat sounds to me like they're taking a swipe at Linux GUI toolkitsAug 21 08:30
DaemonFC"My initial thought was that a Windows-clone would be acceptable on Linux"Aug 21 08:31
DaemonFC"AAug 21 08:31
DaemonFCWindows-clone would most definitely not be acceptable on MacOS X,Aug 21 08:31
DaemonFCwhere the APIs for UI development are highly evolved and have manyAug 21 08:31
DaemonFCoutstanding features."Aug 21 08:31
DaemonFCugghAug 21 08:31
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DaemonFCanyhow, put those two sentences together and you get what he's really sayingAug 21 08:31
DaemonFChe's right though, there's really no good cross platform GUI toolkit unless you want your application to not look native anywhereAug 21 08:33
DaemonFC 21 08:35
DaemonFCsame guyAug 21 08:35
DaemonFCOmar87: As many reasons as Google has to want to fight off Microsoft, it hires a lot of programmers that are only really experienced with Windows and make sure that their apps aren't really all that portableAug 21 08:55
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: google just hires people who arent moronsAug 21 08:56
DaemonFC they seem to hire plenty of idiotsAug 21 08:56
Diablo-D3you can be not a moron and only understand how to code on windowsAug 21 08:57
Diablo-D3they just havent been exposed to the right languages yetAug 21 08:57
DaemonFCWriting Chrome to be heavily dependent on Win32 and then taking well over a year to get anything that comes close to working on LinuxAug 21 08:57
DaemonFCthat really just says it allAug 21 08:57
DaemonFCeven rewriting major parts of it that should have been done right to begin withAug 21 08:57
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DaemonFCeven reverse engineering Windows dlls so they could use APIs undocumented and unsupported by MicrosoftAug 21 08:58
DaemonFCyou're telling me that they hire bright people? Where? I'd sure like to see these bright people you speak ofAug 21 08:58
schestowitzI guess it's true if bright people means white peoleAug 21 08:59
DaemonFCthey're really good at writing programs that fall out of the Win32 tree and hit every branch on the way down, I guessAug 21 08:59
schestowitzAlthough that too may be changing as Google offshores moeAug 21 08:59
schestowitz*moreAug 21 08:59
DaemonFCschestowitz, that just means we'll be getting more Windows softwareAug 21 09:02
DaemonFCthat's all that gets spewed out of offshored Indian software developmentAug 21 09:02
DaemonFCor ChineseAug 21 09:02
DaemonFCand not even well written Windows software most of the timeAug 21 09:02
DaemonFCsome of it even escapes without being proofread by a native English speakerAug 21 09:03
DaemonFCthough I really doubt Google will go that farAug 21 09:03
DaemonFCschestowitz, I really had an "Oh shit" moment when I was using Foxconn's BIOS flashing tool and it said "Backuping your BIOS"Aug 21 09:04
DaemonFChere it was flashing my BIOS and it was too late to stop it and it was written by someone that didn't know that figured "Backuping" was a wordAug 21 09:05
DaemonFC*someone that figuredAug 21 09:05
DaemonFCI just really had a horrible feeling  my PC would never boot up againAug 21 09:05
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DaemonFCschestowitz, did you see where Microsoft is backporting the ribbon interface to Vista?Aug 21 09:06
DaemonFCreminds me of when they used to backport little pieces of their new operating systems to the last version, not enough to really do anything important, just to tease youAug 21 09:07
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schestowitzRibbons are different, adding too littleAug 21 09:23
schestowitzPeople should learn keyboard shortcutsAug 21 09:23
schestowitzNot tabbed toolbarsAug 21 09:23
schestowitzWhich are NOT Microsoft's invention anywayAug 21 09:23
DaemonFCmost of the Windows GUI isn'tAug 21 09:24
schestowitzMicrosoft ripped off others and made lots of PR[opaganda] about itAug 21 09:24
schestowitzDaemonFC: ayeAug 21 09:24
DaemonFCtaskbar grouping in XP came from BeOSAug 21 09:24
schestowitzWhen something sucks, then it might be Microsoft's innovation indeed. Clippy for example.Aug 21 09:24
DaemonFCthe main problem I have with Windows is that Vista and 7 have those backstabbing DRM componentsAug 21 09:25
DaemonFCand they're foisted on you without even telling you what they do, even when they're "optional"Aug 21 09:25
DaemonFCread: You have the option of installing the DRM or not using that function of your computerAug 21 09:25
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DaemonFCI think a lot of people are seeing that Vista and 7 get in your way a lot more than XP did even if they're not sure how to articulate it or what to do, and that's why you see a lot of people demanding XPAug 21 09:26
schestowitz 21 09:26
schestowitzLooks quite humanAug 21 09:26
DaemonFCa lot of computer repair shops were cleaning up on the sheer number of customers that wanted Vista formatted off so badly that they were willing to pay for an XP license plus $70 an hour for the guy to install XP for themAug 21 09:27
DaemonFCthat's pretty bad and there's just no way Microsoft can explain their way out of itAug 21 09:27
DaemonFCI don't really even see why they ended XP, it's obvious that they could just keep "extending" it indefinitely while new PCs kept shipping with Vista and they get to sell everyone two copies of Windows on every PCAug 21 09:29
DaemonFCyou know that even when the mafia was running Las Vegas, they had a code of ethics that was much more ethical than MicrosoftAug 21 09:30
DaemonFCthey considered profiting more than 20 cents on every dollar as "cheating" people too muchAug 21 09:30
schestowitzVista cost $720 in HollandAug 21 09:31
schestowitzThe full editionAug 21 09:31
DaemonFCMicrosoft is profiting more on the line of fifty dollars per dollar spentAug 21 09:31
schestowitz$710 maybeAug 21 09:31
DaemonFCthere's not a business out there that wouldn't kill to have Microsoft's profit to expense ratioAug 21 09:32
DaemonFCMicrosoft's financial trouble as I see it, mainly extends from squandering on obvious boondogglesAug 21 09:33
DaemonFC$720 US dollars you mean?Aug 21 09:33
DaemonFClike, if you figure the exchange rate?Aug 21 09:34
DaemonFCwhat edition of Vista?Aug 21 09:34
DaemonFCeven the Ultimate Edition here is like $279 if you get it retailAug 21 09:34
DaemonFCthey're trying to get rid of their remaining OEM licenses though, a lot of places are throwing in a free copy of Vista with purchase of a hard driskAug 21 09:35
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Trusting Mono While Microsoft Attacks GNU/Linux Left and Right 21 09:49
schestowitzMicrosoft's profitability in software is ending, so it tried moving to hardware (XBox, Zune) and failed miserably. Now it's trying a new type of product... not a tangible type. SCO tried this too.Aug 21 09:55
DaemonFCif the judgement from i4i stands, they'll have lost almost a billion dollars jsut between them and UnilocAug 21 09:57
DaemonFCsomething about glass houses and stones kind of comes to mindAug 21 09:58
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_goblinDaemonFC: What does the FC part of your handle stand for?Aug 21 10:10
schestowitzHe also used to go by the name DaemonXPAug 21 10:11
_goblinI ask because yesterdays failure had FC in his handle...Aug 21 10:11
_goblinI thought maybe it was some sort of club...Aug 21 10:11
_goblinthe "Fud Club"Aug 21 10:12
_goblin*sorry no he didnt, it was FA....Aug 21 10:13
_goblinstill its a football theme...Aug 21 10:13
_goblinFA - Fud Association ?Aug 21 10:13
*DaemonFC smacks _goblin with Preston GrallaAug 21 10:13
_goblinputs me in mind of the Life of Brian and the "peoples front of Judea" sketchAug 21 10:14
schestowitzDivX Settles Yahoo Lawsuit < >. I didn't know they sued.Aug 21 10:14
DaemonFCit's amazing DivX wasn't sued, honestlyAug 21 10:14
schestowitzPreston Gralla is Ryan's colleagueAug 21 10:15
_goblinDaemonFC: Since youre reading this.....what does FC stand for?Aug 21 10:15
DaemonFCthey had a less than "kosher" startAug 21 10:15
schestowitzIt's a book club for WIndows with a tingle of veiled attacks on LinuxAug 21 10:15
schestowitzPreston Gralla really sucks at hiding his hatred of LinuxAug 21 10:15
_goblindont they all?Aug 21 10:15
schestowitzNopeAug 21 10:15
_goblinIf Microsoft was paying for this rubbish then Id suggest they ask for a refund....Aug 21 10:16
schestowitzSOme play the "I use Linux, but..." card a lot betterAug 21 10:16
_goblinI love that one.Aug 21 10:16
schestowitzDaemonFC is a WIndows user who experiments with Linux and breaks itAug 21 10:16
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_goblinno point trying that with Windows, its broken from the start.Aug 21 10:16
DaemonFCI've never managed to break XP actuallyAug 21 10:17
schestowitzBut the next version will fix everythingAug 21 10:17
schestowitzWe've always heard thatAug 21 10:17
_goblinIm sure if the price was right....Aug 21 10:17
_goblinyep, it will be better next time....Aug 21 10:17
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_goblinI wonder which nextime they mean?Aug 21 10:17
DaemonFCVista chokes and dies for no reason or any reason at any momentAug 21 10:17
_goblinsounds like its working correctly.Aug 21 10:18
_goblinOf course even the MS faithful will say Vista is awful since they need to pimp Vista 7Aug 21 10:18
DaemonFCit's pretty bad when the reason I've seen almost no blue screens on Vista is because it usually dies before it can print one outAug 21 10:18
_goblinsee?Aug 21 10:19
_goblinSo DaemonFC: would you recommend people stay with XP then?Aug 21 10:19
DaemonFCwhat? I've been trash talking Vista since before it was even releasedAug 21 10:19
DaemonFCit's never even come close to working rightAug 21 10:19
_goblinthat was not the question.Aug 21 10:19
_goblinSo DaemonFC: would you recommend people stay with XP then?Aug 21 10:19
_goblinif XP is as great as you suggest (unbreakable)Aug 21 10:20
_goblinI'll quote your advice.Aug 21 10:20
DaemonFCmeh, it works, it's still supported for a whileAug 21 10:20
_goblinplease answer the question.Aug 21 10:20
DaemonFCyou don't really "have" to do anything for 5 more yearsAug 21 10:20
_goblinlolAug 21 10:21
_goblinlike talking to a politicianAug 21 10:21
_goblinyes or no - DaemonFC: Would you recommend people stay with XP?Aug 21 10:21
DaemonFCvs.?Aug 21 10:21
DaemonFCgoing to Vista or 7?Aug 21 10:21
_goblin7.....please don't play the fool....Aug 21 10:22
DaemonFCyeah, stay with XP if that's the choiceAug 21 10:22
_goblineh?  What other choice do you suggest?Aug 21 10:22
DaemonFCwhatever happens to work best for you of courseAug 21 10:23
DaemonFCnow that's a politicianAug 21 10:23
_goblinlol...Aug 21 10:23
DaemonFCWindows 7 won't be long lived anyway you know?Aug 21 10:23
DaemonFCI give it 2 years, 3 at the mostAug 21 10:23
_goblinI know...MS will want to sell 8Aug 21 10:23
DaemonFCWindows Vista probably won't even be out of support when they replace 7Aug 21 10:23
_goblincan't have happy customers using their OS for a long time.Aug 21 10:24
DaemonFCit jsut feels like one of those plucky interim releasesAug 21 10:24
_goblinlol...what was Vista then?Aug 21 10:24
DaemonFCwhat XP would have been if it never got any service packsAug 21 10:24
_goblinVista - "A cancerous pollip on the anus of humanity" (not my words)Aug 21 10:25
DaemonFCthey released some service packs for Vista but none of them exactly overhauled itAug 21 10:25
DaemonFCXP SP2 was some pretty major surgeryAug 21 10:25
_goblinand?Aug 21 10:26
DaemonFCI don't think anyone remembers jsut how bad XP RTM wasAug 21 10:26
_goblinI do.Aug 21 10:26
_goblinand it wasnt.Aug 21 10:26
_goblinor certainly not to the extent of VistaAug 21 10:26
_goblinyou forget Im not some young pup.Aug 21 10:26
DaemonFCit was pretty much the same complaints as VistaAug 21 10:26
_goblinno it wasnt.Aug 21 10:26
_goblinin the case of ME it was.Aug 21 10:27
DaemonFC"It doesn't work right on my Pentium 166!" was actually more comicalAug 21 10:27
_goblinUp until Vista, I'd been running with Windows from ver 3.Aug 21 10:27
DaemonFCI actually heard of XP RTM driving people back to Windows 98Aug 21 10:27
_goblindual booting since XP....Aug 21 10:27
_goblinand no....98 was poor too.Aug 21 10:27
_goblinI was there.Aug 21 10:27
DaemonFCso to an extent it's the same deal every release, some people jsut have nothing but problems out of the new versionAug 21 10:28
_goblinno its not.Aug 21 10:28
DaemonFCthat never really tapered off with Vista is what I'm sayingAug 21 10:28
_goblinit never tapered off with Vista because the issues continued.Aug 21 10:28
_goblinjust like MEAug 21 10:28
_goblinjust like Windows Mobile.Aug 21 10:28
DaemonFCXP was pretty massive and bloated and slow by 2001 standardsAug 21 10:28
DaemonFCit's considered pretty minimal now thoughAug 21 10:28
_goblinno it wasnt.....certainly not proportionate to Vista.Aug 21 10:29
_goblinthere was not the issues that Vista had.Aug 21 10:29
_goblin*wereAug 21 10:29
DaemonFCVista had a lot of inappropriate self-serving crap introduced by Microsoft and the RIAA typesAug 21 10:29
_goblinand that won't change.Aug 21 10:29
DaemonFCthat was the cause of a lot of the performance problemsAug 21 10:29
_goblindo you think MS is going to drop its DRM relationship?Aug 21 10:30
DaemonFCthe reason you're seeing Windows 7 perform better than Vista isn't because that stuff is gone, it's because it's not as heavyAug 21 10:30
DaemonFCbut there's actually more of itAug 21 10:30
_goblinyes, lets look at the performs better....Aug 21 10:30
DaemonFCso the problems with Windows 7 aren't really technical, they're manufacturedAug 21 10:31
_goblinhave you seen the mainstream press and their comparisons?Aug 21 10:31
DaemonFCthe result of DRM intentionally interfering with youAug 21 10:31
_goblin7 is not the warp speed OS that people want you to believe......Aug 21 10:31
_goblinDX10?Aug 21 10:31
_goblinlolAug 21 10:31
DaemonFCDirectX 11 actuallyAug 21 10:31
_goblinyep typoAug 21 10:32
DaemonFCI dunno, in some ways it's better is what I meanAug 21 10:32
_goblinhow?Aug 21 10:32
DaemonFCI don't fall asleep on the keyboard waiting for file transfersAug 21 10:32
_goblinneither do IAug 21 10:32
_goblinand I'm not running any Microsoft Coad(sic)Aug 21 10:32
DaemonFCVista was godawful with network file transfersAug 21 10:32
DaemonFCprogress bars that moved across the screen a half centimeter at a timeAug 21 10:33
_goblinyes but just because Vista is awful doesnt mean that 7 is great....its simply what should have been released from day 1Aug 21 10:33
DaemonFCa lot of that was because of the Remote Differential Compression serviceAug 21 10:33
_goblinlolAug 21 10:33
_goblinnice words....Aug 21 10:33
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_goblinI see them used when someone wants to convince me of a new 7 feature.Aug 21 10:34
_goblinmake it sound technical - people wont use Google.........Aug 21 10:34
DaemonFCbite your knuckles wondering if an hour later, your 100 MB file would find its way to the XBOX or if the bar would turn RED and spit out a "FAIL" messageAug 21 10:34
DaemonFCfun timesAug 21 10:34
*schestowitz is familiar with the fraudulent talking point about XP RTM being as bad as VistaAug 21 10:34
_goblinRoy, MS cant have happy XP customers....theres no money to be made there.Aug 21 10:35
DaemonFCsearch through the event log trying to perform an autopsyAug 21 10:35
_goblinMind you, DaemonFC says people should stay with XP...Aug 21 10:35
DaemonFCtry shutting down system services that were started or stopped around the time the error happenedAug 21 10:35
_goblinso from a Windows user that has some worth.Aug 21 10:35
DaemonFCsee if that helps or if it kills something elseAug 21 10:36
DaemonFCgrind your teeth, cuss at the screen, call the support lineAug 21 10:36
DaemonFCget some knuckle dragging tool on the other end of the line that speaks about 10 words of EnglishAug 21 10:37
*schestowitz thinks that Anne Butterworth would buy a new PC because it's saddled with VIsta 7, which offers the Differential Asynchronous Multi-layer Rendering Compression. Or IOW, maybe -- just maybe -- less lag (than Vista, which is rubbish anyway)Aug 21 10:37
schestowitz_goblin: DaemonFC has been promoting WIndows in this channel for like 6 monthsAug 21 10:38
DaemonFCseriously though, I'm certain I could feel my beard growing while Vista was trying to copy a file to or from another networked systemAug 21 10:38
schestowitzHe only keeps careful because he got banned so many timesAug 21 10:38
schestowitzMicrosoft talking point: VIsta is so bad, so you really need VIsta 7Aug 21 10:38
DaemonFCor maybe, just to mess with you, your wifi cuts out right before the transfer is done and you have to go find an ethernet cableAug 21 10:39
schestowitzAnother  one is: we called Linux a "Cancer", but now we give it a patch because we have no other choiceAug 21 10:39
Diablo-D3schestowitz: btw, microsoft isnt wrongAug 21 10:39
Diablo-D3vista really _is_ bad enough you need 7Aug 21 10:39
schestowitzBuy the new Office because it has ribbonsAug 21 10:40
Diablo-D3Im almost wondering if they intentionally botched vistaAug 21 10:40
Diablo-D3just so you have to buy it twiceAug 21 10:40
schestowitz[oh, and shiny blue background behind the document, which BTW OOo can do too]Aug 21 10:40
DaemonFCneed something, not really sure what, already have a spare XP x64 laying aroundAug 21 10:40
DaemonFCeveryone else can have all the fun they want with Windows 7Aug 21 10:40
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: I cant use xp64Aug 21 10:40
Diablo-D3no vendor supportAug 21 10:40
schestowitzDiablo-D3: BSAug 21 10:40
schestowitzIt's not a question of which VERSIONAug 21 10:40
schestowitzThere are OTHER OSesAug 21 10:40
DaemonFCnot in so many words reallyAug 21 10:40
schestowitzThat's why it's spinAug 21 10:41
DaemonFCyou can use Vista drivers in it sometimesAug 21 10:41
schestowitzMicrosoft pretends that Vista 7 should be compared to WIndowsAug 21 10:41
DaemonFCthat's really how I got it workingAug 21 10:41
schestowitzIt's a decoy. People should be told about the /real/ choicesAug 21 10:41
Diablo-D3schestowitz: I didnt imply that, howeverAug 21 10:41
Diablo-D3Im just saying, if you need to use windows, vista really does suckAug 21 10:41
Diablo-D37 really is an improvementAug 21 10:41
Diablo-D3its 5 years too late, but its an improvementAug 21 10:41
schestowitzMicrosoft does not market Xbox 360 by saying it's better than XboxAug 21 10:41
schestowitzThat's because it cannot hide presence of competition from the Japanese giantsAug 21 10:42
DaemonFCyes, an improvement in the sense that Vista was three steps back from XP, and 7 is one step forward from VistaAug 21 10:42
schestowitzDiablo-D3: KDE4 is betterAug 21 10:42
Diablo-D3hehAug 21 10:42
Diablo-D3schestowitz: kde4 sucksAug 21 10:42
Diablo-D3not that Im saying gnome is betterAug 21 10:42
Diablo-D3but I've yet to meet a desktop environment I likeAug 21 10:42
schestowitzVIsta 7 mimics KDE4Aug 21 10:42
Diablo-D3yes, but I dont like 7 eitherAug 21 10:43
Diablo-D3not that way, anywaysAug 21 10:43
DaemonFCI really don't see whereAug 21 10:43
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: well, apparently aero7 is kde4Aug 21 10:43
schestowitzU.S. Gets First Internet Addiction Center < >Aug 21 10:43
Diablo-D3I dont see where, but roy isnt the first to say itAug 21 10:43
DaemonFCthey both have desktop effects?Aug 21 10:43
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: probablyAug 21 10:43
schestowitzWhy can't people just lave the PC?Aug 21 10:43
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Diablo-D3I'd _love_ to leave the PCAug 21 10:43
Diablo-D3its fucking shitAug 21 10:43
Diablo-D3just give me android with a xtermAug 21 10:43
Diablo-D3I'd be happyAug 21 10:43
DaemonFCuhhhhmAug 21 10:44
schestowitzWatch the languageAug 21 10:44
schestowitzAndroid doesn't even have the gnu toolchainAug 21 10:44
DaemonFCJust give me an etch a sketch and I'll be happier than I would be with AndroidAug 21 10:44
DaemonFCturn it upside down and shake to rebootAug 21 10:44
schestowitzIt's DRM with some Linux around it /sarcasmAug 21 10:44
DaemonFCand life is good againAug 21 10:44
Diablo-D3I was playing with android in virtualboxAug 21 10:44
Diablo-D3its a lot better than people make it out to beAug 21 10:44
DaemonFCAndroid is not going anywhereAug 21 10:45
Diablo-D3I cant imagine people using it on a cell phone.... then again, I cant imagine people using cell phonesAug 21 10:45
_goblinDaemonFC: its going much further than Winmob...Aug 21 10:45
DaemonFCit was vaporware that turned into a pipe dream that stalled out after like three people bought into itAug 21 10:45
_goblinat least it worksAug 21 10:45
_goblinan unhappy Winmob user (on the MDA mail)Aug 21 10:46
DaemonFCI've only seen one person with a Windows Mobile phone, I played around with it, wasn't impressedAug 21 10:46
schestowitzUNIX @ 40 21 10:46
DaemonFCthe thing was bulky and the Windows Mobile OS is just laid out all wrongAug 21 10:46
_goblinPlayed around?  You should try relying on it.....big mistake,Aug 21 10:47
DaemonFCyeah, after 5 minutes it was obvious to me he had been cheatedAug 21 10:47
schestowitzPalm's betterAug 21 10:47
schestowitzEven the old versionsAug 21 10:47
_goblininfact I think the only decent MS product would have been the Xbox but since youre more likely to get a hardware failure than not and the fact that MS has made a loss on it, suggests that MS can't even get it right in the console market.Aug 21 10:48
schestowitzI played with winmob [sic] some years back.A friend's supposedly cutting-edge phoneAug 21 10:48
schestowitzMicrosoft made losses in Winmob tooAug 21 10:48
schestowitzIt then hid themAug 21 10:48
_goblinYeah....Ive hidden mine too...Aug 21 10:48
_goblinbest place for it.....Aug 21 10:48
schestowitzWIlcox wrote about it: 21 10:49
_goblinawfull piece of worthless code.Aug 21 10:49
schestowitzSomething'\s wrongAug 21 10:49
_goblin?Aug 21 10:49
schestowitzWas it Mary who wrote it at the time? I guess so. I thought it was also a longer report.Aug 21 10:49
DaemonFCI saw earlier that Microsoft is trying to get the prices for Windows Mobile applications upAug 21 10:50
_goblinthat was before I frequented MS-Watch....Aug 21 10:50
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schestowitzn0neXn0ne :Aug 21 10:50
schestowitzMicrosoft is changing yet again the way that it will report its financials. Instead of reporting the financial results of seven business units, Microsoft now will report results of five units. The company is folding its two worst-performing divisions Microsoft Business Solutions (its business applications unit) and its Mobile and Embedded units into the Microsoft Business Division and Microsoft Home and Entertainment units, respectAug 21 10:50
schestowitzively. Microsoft officials claim the new structure reflects the way the company is now organized into three overarching business units. We were never too good at the new math.Aug 21 10:50
schestowitz 21 10:50
schestowitzPosted by n0neXn0ne | July 24, 2008 10:01 AMAug 21 10:50
schestowitzSo that's an updateAug 21 10:50
DaemonFCthey're trying to lure disgruntled iPhone developers with the promise of not turning their app into another 99 cent noveltyAug 21 10:50
DaemonFC:PAug 21 10:50
_goblinDaemonFC: Flogging a dead hourse springs to mind.Aug 21 10:50
_goblinmaybe they should rebadge and resell like they usually do...Aug 21 10:51
DaemonFCApple is using its market share to beat app developers and even the RIAA to deathAug 21 10:51
DaemonFCthe RIAA wanted to charge even more than they do nowAug 21 10:51
_goblinRoy....have you ever looked into F.A.C.T?Aug 21 10:51
DaemonFCthe RIAA wants to force you to buy full albums againAug 21 10:52
DaemonFCcause the way it is now they can't stuff a bunch of filler tracks in and force them on youAug 21 10:52
_goblinI think I may do an article....since the digital Britain report want to reduce file sharing by 70% within the year.......Aug 21 10:52
DaemonFCthey're losing their ass on iTunes almost as much as they are on Bittorrent just because people snap up the 1-2 tracks they like on every albumAug 21 10:53
DaemonFCthey have to have 5 times as many customers to make the same amount of moneyAug 21 10:53
_goblinfunny that there is no part of the theft act that is relevant for NG's or IRC.Aug 21 10:53
DaemonFCand some tracks don't sell a single copy :DAug 21 10:53
schestowitz 21 10:54
schestowitzPeople finally realise that law is there to serve the people, not the other way aroundAug 21 10:54
_goblinmaybe that should be the advice.....get it from the NG's theres no offence for the downloader.Aug 21 10:54
_goblinor even IRC.Aug 21 10:54
schestowitzCOpyrights were creatd to serve the people by encouraging creationAug 21 10:54
schestowitzNow these copyrights are used to attack peopleAug 21 10:54
DaemonFC 21 10:54
*DaemonFC facepalmsAug 21 10:54
schestowitzSo the purpose was lost in translation. same with patentsAug 21 10:54
_goblinbut like all good ideas they get perverted into meeting the needs of ruthless large organizations.Aug 21 10:55
DaemonFCno, you had a bunch of evil bastards that figured out how to usurp the system and cheat everybodyAug 21 10:55
DaemonFCthat's what happenedAug 21 10:55
_goblinto be fair I am against piracy, however I also stand against FUD and I get annoyed that piracy is always blamed for the latest "hot potato" of crime....Aug 21 10:56
_goblinthat is wrong.....Aug 21 10:56
schestowitzPiracy? Where?Aug 21 10:56
schestowitzSend some helicoptersAug 21 10:56
schestowitzOr a torpedoAug 21 10:56
_goblinshiver me timbers.....Aug 21 10:56
DaemonFCschestowitz, 21 10:57
DaemonFCVideo pirates!!!Aug 21 10:57
schestowitzMac users also know Gralla's spielAug 21 10:57
_goblinI always wanted to be a pirate as a child....Aug 21 10:57
schestowitzHe's more stupid than EnderleAug 21 10:57
_goblinthe nautical varietyAug 21 10:57
schestowitzDaemonFC: good videoAug 21 10:59
DaemonFCI like what my dad said "It was different when they were using the best media that current technology allowed and the media would just wear out"Aug 21 11:01
DaemonFChe doesn't see anything wrong with downloading a copy of something he had on a cassette tape or what have youAug 21 11:02
schestowitz"A few days ago, Kyle Brady sent over his blog post wondering if the world would eventually move to a single currency. His suggestion would be that it would be based on the Euro, though can you just imagine the political uproar in the US if anyone actually took a step in that direction?" 21 11:06
schestowitzThere are already laws here requiring using the metric system for weightsAug 21 11:06
Diablo-D3schestowitz: lolololfailAug 21 11:07
Diablo-D3doesnt he know about the amero?Aug 21 11:07
schestowitzAmero??? Amero????? Amero!!!! Conspiracy theorist!!!!!!Aug 21 11:07
schestowitz;-pAug 21 11:07
schestowitzNAFTAAug 21 11:07
schestowitzSheeshAug 21 11:07
DaemonFCI doubt it'll ever go that farAug 21 11:09
DaemonFCbut in practice, we've already let foreign countries bleed us to deathAug 21 11:09
DaemonFCand now they're bitching that they can't siphon a few more ounces of bloodAug 21 11:09
DaemonFCmostly the Mexicans wanting to be able to operate their trucks on our roadsAug 21 11:09
DaemonFCand the Canadians mad about the Buy American provisions in the stimulus even though Canadian provinces only source from Canadian companiesAug 21 11:10
schestowitzNot the way I see it....Aug 21 11:10
DaemonFCthey want us to give, give, give and never stop to ask what they've done for us latelyAug 21 11:10
schestowitzFrom what I've learned, mabour-wise it's already doneAug 21 11:10
schestowitzFree transformation of job locations and thus wagesAug 21 11:10
schestowitzIIRC, Windows is manufactured in Costa Rica or somethingAug 21 11:11
DaemonFCyou mean capitalism chasing down the cheapest, most exploitable laborAug 21 11:11
DaemonFCand working them to death and throwing them away when they're doneAug 21 11:11
schestowitzYEs. Degrading wagesAug 21 11:11
DaemonFCdumping anything they like into the air and waterAug 21 11:11
schestowitzWhen there's no competition or this type of competition, then it's like sweat shop eraAug 21 11:11
DaemonFCmoving to countries where there are no laws to protect workers or the environmentAug 21 11:12
schestowitzPeople fought for many decades to establish rules to fefend workersAug 21 11:12
DaemonFCthen when it's time to make cutbacks, they hand us crap like the Kyoto ProtocolAug 21 11:12
DaemonFCwhich exempts all the worst offendersAug 21 11:12
DaemonFCand demands that we make all the cutbacksAug 21 11:12
schestowitzAll that is being lost because William Gates, Intel, Abramoff and other cronies that work with Clinton are signing stuff like NAFTA and creatihg HB-1sAug 21 11:12
DaemonFCHB-1's are being abused, and are not being used for what they were originally intended forAug 21 11:13
schestowitzWhat for?Aug 21 11:13
DaemonFCthey're being doled out as political favors to heavy campaign investorsAug 21 11:13
schestowitz[originally]Aug 21 11:13
DaemonFCseveral reasonsAug 21 11:13
schestowitzI like it when a professor says what I've argued for years:Aug 21 11:14
schestowitz 21 11:14
schestowitzSmoking is to kill people earlyAug 21 11:14
schestowitzNo retirement, more taxation on tobaccoAug 21 11:14
schestowitzGood for themAug 21 11:14
DaemonFCthen why are they taxing the hell out of them?Aug 21 11:14
DaemonFCthey should give them away freeAug 21 11:14
DaemonFCtell people it's good for themAug 21 11:14
schestowitzBlack people similarly complained about issues of healthcare and obersityAug 21 11:14
schestowitzSmoking kills over half a million per year in the US aloneAug 21 11:14
DaemonFCyeah, but not in the right wayAug 21 11:14
schestowitzIt murdered some of my family too, and smoking is still not prohibitedAug 21 11:15
schestowitzThey hardly even warn about it in the USAug 21 11:15
DaemonFCif you're going to off millions of people, you typically don't want them to die slowly over years of expensive medical proceduresAug 21 11:15
schestowitzIs smoking in US pubs still permitted?Aug 21 11:15
schestowitzCause it kills 60-80k per year, second hand smoking /alone/ that isAug 21 11:15
DaemonFCsome, depends on state and local lawsAug 21 11:15
schestowitzThe UK has new laws forbidding smoking almost everywhereAug 21 11:15
DaemonFCthere's no federal law against itAug 21 11:15
DaemonFCand it's wrecking the business for the bar owners tooAug 21 11:16
schestowitzNot even in CA?Aug 21 11:16
schestowitzI heard that even in the streets smoking if frowned uponAug 21 11:16
schestowitzA friend from there told me this in 2002Aug 21 11:16
DaemonFCnot sure, it's jsut a patchwork of "Here it's legal, there it's not"Aug 21 11:16
DaemonFClike it's legal where I am, but 25 miles north in Ft Wayne, it's a $100 fineAug 21 11:16
schestowitzFine.Aug 21 11:17
DaemonFCit's pretty easy to evade the fine thoughAug 21 11:17
DaemonFCthe law says "smoking IN the bar"Aug 21 11:17
DaemonFCso the bar I go to sometimes has a covered deck out backAug 21 11:17
DaemonFCit's technically outsideAug 21 11:17
DaemonFCI'm OK with that, as long as I don't have to smoke their cigarette, whateverAug 21 11:18
schestowitz "@dpawson Yes, I'm the Secretary of the ODF Interoperability and Conformance (OIC) TC. The Fraunhofer work interest me too. 6:36 PM Aug 19th from TwInbox in reply to dpawson, Dennis E. Hamilton"Aug 21 11:18
schestowitzMeh.Aug 21 11:18
schestowitzHe's too cozy with the Microsoft crowd sometimes.Aug 21 11:19
DaemonFCI happen to think that anything that you do to yourself or another consenting right minded adult should be out of the state's jurisdictionAug 21 11:19
schestowitzTrue.Aug 21 11:19
schestowitzBut..Aug 21 11:19
schestowitzSecond-hand smoking is the issueAug 21 11:19
DaemonFCthe idea that there can be a crime committed where you are the perpetrator and the victim is ludicrousAug 21 11:19
schestowitzAnother is pollution where factories and their fumes affect everythingAug 21 11:20
DaemonFCthat's what I mean, as long as they go outside, they're not hurting meAug 21 11:20
schestowitzMy clothes used to smell like smoke every time I went outAug 21 11:20
schestowitzJust imagine what impact this had on people's lungsAug 21 11:21
schestowitzNow it's just smokeless.Aug 21 11:21
DaemonFCI do smoke a pack of clove sigarettes sometimesAug 21 11:21
DaemonFCnot enough to really say I'm a smoker by any meansAug 21 11:21
schestowitzThere are no smokers in my family leftl, almostAug 21 11:21
schestowitzTHey die earlyAug 21 11:21
benJImanDaemonFC: Claiming that people should be allowed to smoke in public is like saying that suicide bombers should be allowed to blow themselves up in public.Aug 21 11:21
DaemonFCmy grandparents on my dad's side smoked 2-3 packs a day for like about 60 yearsAug 21 11:21
DaemonFCboth died in their 80sAug 21 11:22
schestowitzProbabilityAug 21 11:22
schestowitzNot statistics per seAug 21 11:22
DaemonFCyeahAug 21 11:22
DaemonFCand they wren't exactly in great shape for the last 10 years or soAug 21 11:22
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schestowitzYou could play Russian roulette with a 7-bullet pistol and get away with it 100 times in a rowAug 21 11:22
benJImanI find your anecdotal evidence compelling.Aug 21 11:22
DaemonFCbenJIman, going out back where the only other people are smokers?Aug 21 11:23
DaemonFCthat's not bothering anyone elseAug 21 11:23
schestowitzDaemonFC: it's like people who believe in prayerAug 21 11:23
schestowitzThey should be taught statistics and medicineAug 21 11:23
schestowitz"I prayed for my uncle and he survived. Therefore I believe in a God"Aug 21 11:23
DaemonFCas long as they're not harassing me, they can believe whatever they want and I don't careAug 21 11:24
schestowitzDaemonFC: 21 11:24
benJImanDaemonFC: I have no problem with people smoking in designated areas or on their own private property. In fact I disagree with drug prohibition.Aug 21 11:24
DaemonFCmost of them are just misguided, some of them are truly depraved and looking for justificationAug 21 11:24
benJImanBut I do have a problem with smokers forcing me to breathe their smoke.Aug 21 11:24
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DaemonFCschestowitz, those showboaters are just doing it all for the moneyAug 21 11:27
DaemonFCthat Hell House guy is all theater and he charges an admission I'm sureAug 21 11:28
DaemonFCit's a businessAug 21 11:28
DaemonFCit's no different than going and watching a slasher movie but he puts a "Christian" spin on itAug 21 11:28
DaemonFCtalk about a bullshit artistAug 21 11:28
schestowitzHehe. The ODF Web site is getting spam like (headlines): "Anal sex video free download"Aug 21 11:34
schestowitzIt's entering the RSS feedsAug 21 11:34
schestowitzDaemonFC: watch the whole programme. It's well made (Channel 4)Aug 21 11:35
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schestowitzExodus in Microsoft is now something that the employees talk about in blogs like mini-msft. They are demoralised, which spirals into all sorts of issues.Aug 21 11:45
schestowitzEmployees fired for testifying about Xbox fires... isn't this a violation of the law? The guy was sacked for saying the truth and potentially saving people's loves by doing so. IIRC, he said he would sue over his firing [no pun intended].Aug 21 11:47
schestowitzSeen this 1 hour ago:: "Pirate Party swashbuckles into Finnish politics - The Pirate Party, which first rose to prominence in Sweden during June's European elections, has now been officially launched in Finland, the group's leader said on Wednesday."Aug 21 11:48
DaemonFCnot illegalAug 21 11:49
DaemonFCat-will employmentAug 21 11:50
DaemonFCthey owe him unemployment compensation for 8 months or until he finds a new jobAug 21 11:50
schestowitzGreat news for KDE 4.3: 21 12:03
schestowitz "Roy says it best about the new Windows 7 installation. Once more, for all their rhetoric, Microsoft’s actions show yet again that they don’t care about interoperability or playing nice with anyone else. All they care is maintaining their desktop monopoly and part of that tactic is not making it easy at all to setup a dual boot setup."Aug 21 12:05
schestowitz"Because MS has been blabbing about “interoperability” for the last few years and they need to be called on their bullshit at some point. Their rhetoric has never been honest and their actions prove it again and again."Aug 21 12:07
DaemonFCyou can have the Windows bootloader boot into LinuxAug 21 12:13
DaemonFCI've done it beforeAug 21 12:13
DaemonFCin fact, Wubi operates that way by designAug 21 12:14
schestowitzIs this new? WineXS – Simple graphical environment to configure Wine < >Aug 21 12:15
ziggyfishquestion, why does wine always look like the applications come from windows 95 or 3.1?Aug 21 12:18
DaemonFCbecause Wine doesn't have the theming system of XP or VistaAug 21 12:19
DaemonFCprobably really the least of their worriesAug 21 12:19
DaemonFC,2933,541205,00.htmlAug 21 12:27
DaemonFCCourt Expected to Send Runaway Teen Home Despite Muslim Honor Killing FearsAug 21 12:27
schestowitz"Honor Killing" is sucha  cheeky term\Aug 21 12:33
schestowitzText for tombstone. Died on [date] for honourAug 21 12:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "China to debate 2030 emission cuts deadline" < > This is worth negotiating. Progress, alas.Aug 21 12:36
schestowitz"Women in Uganda are economically disempowered and reduced to commodities by the practice known as 'bride price'. It's got to stop, says Evelyn Schiller from the women and children's rights organisation Mifumi" 21 12:36
schestowitzNice photos: Women in Uganda are economically disempowered and reduced to commodities by the practice known as 'bride price'. It's got to stop, says Evelyn Schiller from the women and children's rights organisation MifumiAug 21 12:39
schestowitzOops.Aug 21 12:39
schestowitzNice photos: 21 12:39
schestowitz (Fixing Linux)Aug 21 12:39
DaemonFCthat's the problem, people think "equality laws" do anythingAug 21 12:40
DaemonFCall it means is that they can still discriminate as long as they don't officially say that's why they areAug 21 12:41
schestowitzCFTC Withdraws Two No-Action Letters Granting Relief from Federal Speculative Position Limits on Soybeans, Corn and Wheat Contracts 21 12:42
schestowitz"AIG had over $12 trillion dollars of CDS's and these two firms have a combined total of over $14.1 TRILLION.  " 21 12:43
DaemonFC"equality laws" amount to little more than political favors that politicians dole out, they usually do more harm than goodAug 21 12:43
DaemonFCthey create a two-tiered society where one group has been called "special" and where they're "protected" more than the rest of that societyAug 21 12:44
DaemonFCthey create more ill will towards people in that groupAug 21 12:44
DaemonFCit's like affirmative action that led to "diversity quotas" and "token minorities"Aug 21 12:45
DaemonFCand "hate crimes" which make it twice as illegal to commit a crime against that minorityAug 21 12:45
DaemonFCthen there's the downright bleeding heart liberal crapAug 21 12:47
DaemonFCthe kind of crap like the case of that girl whose family will most definitely beat or kill her, but the state hands her back anyway in the name of political correctnessAug 21 12:47
DaemonFCfar be it from the state to listen to a child who tells them in all seriousness that their family will literally kill themAug 21 12:48
DaemonFCwatch it be in the news next month that the girl's family beat her to death or something after Child Protective Services hands her backAug 21 12:49
schestowitzJon Stewart has a good bit here on the 'free' market(R) 21 12:50
DaemonFCCPS is a joke, they actively endanger children by forcing them to remain with abusive familiesAug 21 12:51
DaemonFCI reported my step dad to CPS cause he was abusing my brother and I couldn't do anything else about it and they CALLED the SOB like 24 hours beforehandAug 21 12:52
DaemonFCand told him they would be coming the next day for an inspection of the houseAug 21 12:52
DaemonFCgave him and my mother just enough time to threaten him into shutting upAug 21 12:52
DaemonFCthat guy was an animal, even calling him that isn't really getting the picture across, he beats up women and kids, he's scumAug 21 12:53
DaemonFCI had to tell him I'd deal with him myself if he kept that upAug 21 12:54
DaemonFCI just have to stand in awe whenever some douchebag liberal gets up and defends Child Protective Services and that's kind of whyAug 21 12:55
schestowitz Jason is suggesting that Microsoft invitation to OIN is his idea. False.Aug 21 12:55
schestowitzOIN had Microsoft invited YEARS ago.Aug 21 12:56
DaemonFCMono is a steaming pile of fail even without the patent issues because it's not even close to being compatible with .NetAug 21 12:56
DaemonFCnobody is going to seriously use Mono for that reason aloneAug 21 12:57
DaemonFCthere's like what? One substantial Linux application that uses Mono (Banshee)Aug 21 12:59
schestowitzopenSUSE to default to KDE < >Aug 21 12:59
DaemonFCthat's not really a justification for the entire runtimeAug 21 12:59
schestowitzYes, Banshee mostlyAug 21 12:59
schestowitzBig team assigned to itAug 21 12:59
schestowitzfspot umbrella too envisionedAug 21 12:59
schestowitzAnd Moon Lie integration of some levelAug 21 12:59
DaemonFCso why is Microsoft supporting the white trash cousin of .Net?Aug 21 13:00
DaemonFCwhat do they get out of that part?Aug 21 13:00
DaemonFCKDE isn't real big on MonoAug 21 13:02
DaemonFCwhy are they going after it?Aug 21 13:02
*amarsh04__ is now known as amarsh04Aug 21 13:03
DaemonFCI suppose they can just port all their Mono apps to QTAug 21 13:03
DaemonFCis there a QT#?Aug 21 13:04
schestowitzSupergamer has been "ammunition" against claims that Linux and gaming are anomalous. One can spend days or months on this dual-layer DVD.Aug 21 13:04
schestowitzWe need to give this more exposureAug 21 13:04
DaemonFCoh, there isAug 21 13:04
DaemonFCnever noticed itAug 21 13:04
schestowitzDaemonFC: there are hooks for C#Aug 21 13:04
schestowitzNo project that I know uses itAug 21 13:04
schestowitzI can't name a single Qt programme that uses Microsoft anythingAug 21 13:05
DaemonFCKDE on Windows is kind of amusingAug 21 13:05
DaemonFCnot really sure why they're doing itAug 21 13:05
schestowitz SDL competition - here I come! < >Aug 21 13:09
schestowitzDaemonFC: some Linux users who are forced to use WIndows at workAug 21 13:09
schestowitzOne key developers abandoned this ideaAug 21 13:10
DaemonFCI tried it, the apps crash more than they workAug 21 13:10
schestowitzMaybe they'll revisit it when kde4/5 have 100+ million users :-pAug 21 13:10
schestowitzPrototype/proof of concept owing to Qt cross-platformAug 21 13:10
schestowitzIt's good to have for laterAug 21 13:10
schestowitzWhen KDE expands to these platformsAug 21 13:11
DaemonFCit would be nice to have a complete KDE shell replacement optionAug 21 13:11
DaemonFCfor Windows that isAug 21 13:11
DaemonFCWindows has supported alternate shells since alwaysAug 21 13:11
DaemonFCthe kind of stuff that ends up landing is usually worse than Explorer thoughAug 21 13:12
DaemonFCI used to use LiteStep just because Windows 98's shell leaked resources like a sieveAug 21 13:13
DaemonFCthe alternate shell option on Windows has really stalled out since Explorer stopped leaking and crashing like crazyAug 21 13:13
schestowitzHeh. We made FP of LinuxTodayAug 21 13:13
schestowitzI didn't even noticeAug 21 13:14
DaemonFCMicrosoft actually sabotaged Windows 95 at one pointAug 21 13:14
DaemonFCIE 5 replaced the common controls dll with one that leaked lots of resources anytime you opened and closed a windowAug 21 13:15
DaemonFCthe solution was to go to dos and copy the common controls dll that shipped with the beta of IE 5Aug 21 13:15
DaemonFCI never did figure out why they would do something like that, I assume it was to prod you to 98, at least I couldn't see something that obvious getting past their QA peopleAug 21 13:16
DaemonFCthe version that shipped with IE 5.5 did not fix the issueAug 21 13:16
schestowitzDOes anyone here do Blender? (Character Head Modeling in Blender: Part 2)Aug 21 13:17
schestowitzI really want to try it sometimes. I used POV-Ray a few years agoAug 21 13:17
DaemonFCI toyed around with it at one point because I was playing around with the applications Canonical had selected for the Open CDAug 21 13:18
DaemonFCit is really far too powerful for anything I'd doAug 21 13:18
DaemonFCthe only app that they had on the entire disc that would mean anything at all to a Windows user was Firefox, possibly ThunderbirdAug 21 13:19
DaemonFCtheir VLC was missing libdvdcssAug 21 13:19
DaemonFC:PAug 21 13:19
DaemonFCat the time, the biggest reason to have VLC was to play DVDs because Windows would try to hit you up for the extra $40 for PowerDVD if you tried playing one, unless you had the extremely rare Media Center EditionAug 21 13:20
DaemonFCsometimes a drive would include a crippleware edition of PowerDVD or something, but I buy most of my stuff as OEM partsAug 21 13:21
schestowitztessier: 21 13:22
DaemonFCI think that they basically lost their chance to scalp Windows users when they left OpenOffice out and crippled VLCAug 21 13:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] More tips getting Windows refund in UK the additional EULA terms make Windows a "faulty component"!Aug 21 13:23
DaemonFCother than that it was just a real expensive way to burn Firefox to a CDAug 21 13:23
schestowitz 40 years of Unix < >Aug 21 13:24
DaemonFCI wonder how many people take the refund and keep using XPAug 21 13:24
DaemonFCnow there's something I would probably doAug 21 13:25
DaemonFChow do you prove you're destroyed it?Aug 21 13:25
DaemonFC*you'veAug 21 13:25
DaemonFC"It just kept growing"Aug 21 13:27
DaemonFCof course I guess that describes every programAug 21 13:27
schestowitzXp is worthlessAug 21 13:27
schestowitzWhen the Contribution Model Fails < >Aug 21 13:27
schestowitzIf you want XP, then get LinuxXP or PCLOSAug 21 13:28
schestowitzWIne is mature nowAug 21 13:28
DaemonFC"SecuROM has detected a debugger" or "Please insert the valid game disc"Aug 21 13:28
DaemonFCI was still getting those frequently the last time I tried itAug 21 13:29
DaemonFCWine makes very little attempt to try and run copy protected games, it has some routines for defeating really old versions of MacroVision SafediscAug 21 13:30
DaemonFCGee, just what I always wanted to play, The Sims.......:DAug 21 13:30
DaemonFCtheir whole angle over that is "We don't wanna be sued", I think it's more like "We want to sell you our commercial product"Aug 21 13:32
DaemonFCcause Crossover Games doesn't seem to fall over and die when I insert my Oblivion discAug 21 13:32
DaemonFCWine doesAug 21 13:32
DaemonFCso in a way, Wine is becoming about as useful in practical terms as checking out from Cedega-CVS :PAug 21 13:33
DaemonFCyou might get Office XP installed thoughAug 21 13:33
DaemonFCthe only games I've managed to get it to run are the oddballs that aren't coated in DRMAug 21 13:34
DaemonFCor which at least install so as to where I can get a no-disc fixed EXEAug 21 13:34
schestowitzYum. 21 13:34
schestowitzKDE4 looks niceAug 21 13:34
DaemonFC"It's a 7 year old feature request." roflAug 21 13:35
DaemonFC"But seriously, in the commercial world, people lose their jobs for taking over a month to implement features like this."Aug 21 13:36
DaemonFCit's a GNU project, as long as it does what they want it to do, you can go screw yourselfAug 21 13:37
DaemonFCeven if you submit a patchAug 21 13:37
schestowitz"Most linux distros come with prebuilt kernel that aims to support as much hardware as possible and kernels are constantly evolving and upgraded with new inclusions to support for latest hardware." 21 13:38
schestowitzseems like a book advert of sortsAug 21 13:38
DaemonFCI've seen this kind of attitude from them on other things tooAug 21 13:38
DaemonFCincludign a GMediaServer problem that they were presented with a patch for three years agoAug 21 13:39
DaemonFCthat you still have to apply yourselfAug 21 13:39
DaemonFCthe kicker over that particular problem is that the patch doesn't even affect anything else in the program, so it's not even like it could break anythingAug 21 13:39
schestowitzShane (Shill) O'Neill can't help starting with Windows, as usual. 21 13:40
DaemonFCit just lets it stream media to an XBOX 360Aug 21 13:40
DaemonFCI have to kind of see that as just being bitterAug 21 13:40
DaemonFCyou email them politely asking why and never get a responseAug 21 13:41
DaemonFCa tumbleweed blows byAug 21 13:41
DaemonFCit seems it's always something with themAug 21 13:41
DaemonFCfor that particular reason I therefore depended on Windows Media PlayerAug 21 13:42
DaemonFCwhich kind of needs WindowsAug 21 13:42
DaemonFCI don't know why GNU projects reject trivial patches jsut because it lets their program interface with something made by MicrosoftAug 21 13:43
DaemonFCit's times like that I really just have to chalk it up to penis envyAug 21 13:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[d235j] RT @robtlee: Why AT&T Killed Google Voice (Excellent Article On Why Telcos are EVIL)Aug 21 13:44
DaemonFC 21 13:46
DaemonFCsomeone else stumbled onto GMediaServer and had about the same experience I didAug 21 13:46
DaemonFCat this point the thing amounts to another pile of unmaintained cruft that still has a homepageAug 21 13:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How to Build a Great GNU/Linux Desktop with $500 Budget 21 13:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why GNU/Linux Has Already Won (Long Ago) 21 13:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Austrumi Linux Reviewed 21 14:01
DaemonFCoh wow, IE 8 is almost usable with two ad blocking plugins, sheeshAug 21 14:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] [News] Wonderful Review of the KDE-based Pardus Linux 2009 (from a GNOME Liver) 21 14:03
DaemonFCschestowitz, I've been interested in Parsix, but I'm hesitant to install Iranian software on my PC for some reason :PAug 21 14:03
DaemonFCit looks nicethoughAug 21 14:03
schestowitzOops. "Lover", not "LiverAug 21 14:03
schestowitzHehe.Aug 21 14:03
schestowitzGNOME LiverAug 21 14:03
schestowitzOrgan harvestingAug 21 14:03
schestowitzDaemonFC: Parsix is goodAug 21 14:04
schestowitz> Aug 21 14:04
schestowitz<DaemonFC> schestowitz, I've been interested in Parsix, but I'm hesitant to install Iranian software on my PC for some reason :PAug 21 14:04
DaemonFCyeah, but the idea it's from Iran makes me figure it's backdoored or somethingAug 21 14:04
schestowitzNow you know how Iran feels about WindowsAug 21 14:04
DaemonFCwell, let's's from a hostile country, you're running binary codeAug 21 14:05
DaemonFCyou do the mathAug 21 14:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] CentOS is Back and Track and Version 4.8 is Out Shortly 21 14:06
DaemonFCmaybe the source code they provide is clean but they've slipped something into the compiled binaryAug 21 14:06
DaemonFCit's feasibleAug 21 14:06
DaemonFCChina backdoors its Linux distro, Red FlagAug 21 14:07
DaemonFCand runs you as rootAug 21 14:07
DaemonFCbeing a communist dictatorship means never having to say you're sorry and revisioning history however you wantAug 21 14:08
DaemonFC:DAug 21 14:08
DaemonFCschestowitz, you want some realfact or the goodfact?Aug 21 14:09
DaemonFCheheAug 21 14:09
DaemonFCI happen to think that 1984 should be a required reading for every child, but there's no way the government would push it in the classroomAug 21 14:10
DaemonFCthey don't want independent thinkers, they want conformersAug 21 14:11
DaemonFCthey'll tell you what to think, how much to think, and when to think itAug 21 14:11
Diablo-D3 21 14:13
*schestowitz catches upAug 21 14:14
schestowitzParsix was made for schoolsAug 21 14:14
schestowitzI doubt it's malignAug 21 14:14
schestowitzALso, these kids are deprived of access to CPUsAug 21 14:14
schestowitzNice diplomatic moves there from the US... deciding to make the young generation too resentfulAug 21 14:15
schestowitzThrough economic and developmental sanctionsAug 21 14:15
DaemonFCIran may work itself out eventuallyAug 21 14:15
DaemonFCenough of them want to throw out AhmadinejadAug 21 14:16
schestowitzYes, 1984 is a classic. But time makes it fade from memoryAug 21 14:16
DaemonFCthe government can't run mass show trials and public executions foreverAug 21 14:16
schestowitzThere is A LOT more anti-Freedom brainwash coming from TVAug 21 14:16
schestowitzSo the cough potato will forget about what they were taught in the classroomAug 21 14:16
schestowitzThere's also sex content in 1984, so...Aug 21 14:16
cubezzzthings never got as bad as in 1984, people are too pessimisticAug 21 14:17
cubezzzlots of room for improvement of courseAug 21 14:17
DaemonFCgovernment has a way of sugar coating thingsAug 21 14:17
cubezzzif the book 1984 itself got banned, then I'd start to worryAug 21 14:18
DaemonFCChina is "We shot your neighbor in the head as an enemy of the people"Aug 21 14:18
DaemonFCthe United States is "Hey, look at the new iPhone" (that ought to keep them busy for a while)Aug 21 14:18
DaemonFC:PAug 21 14:18
DaemonFCI guess we aren't so bad in comparisonAug 21 14:18
cubezzzI'm pretty sure we did 1984 in high schoolAug 21 14:18
DaemonFCschestowitz, I'm sure most of the reason Microsoft removed the WGA check from IE was because it was causing millions of people with unlicensed copies of XP to seek out Firefox :PAug 21 14:20
cubezzzwe got Nader, we got Stallman, so no probs :)Aug 21 14:20
cubezzzI wonder how many average people know Stallman thoughAug 21 14:20
DaemonFCmentions on Wikipedia that they did it to encourage people to upgrade for security reasonsAug 21 14:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Look Ahead at Ubuntu Linux 9.10 (Karmic) 21 14:21
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schestowitzDaemonFC: yes, that's what people said at the timeAug 21 14:24
schestowitzSame with BSoD (Black Screens of Death)Aug 21 14:24
schestowitzThey tried in in ChinaAug 21 14:24
schestowitzGot sued massively, several timesAug 21 14:24
cubezzzwhat is the Black Screen of Death?Aug 21 14:25
schestowitzLook it upAug 21 14:25
schestowitz,chinas-evermore-office-suite-takes-off.aspxAug 21 14:25
schestowitz 21 14:25
schestowitz 21 14:25
schestowitz 21 14:25
schestowitzThe FSF is gonna launch a big campaign soonAug 21 14:27
schestowitzMicrosoft gives ammunition with all those anti-consumer 'features'Aug 21 14:27
cubezzzthe wikipedia definition doesn't even mention piracyAug 21 14:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] US Defense Information Systems Agency Promotes Free Software 21 14:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FogComputing Conference Revolves Around Free software Centerpiece 21 14:29
cubezzzit might even end up as a positive thing, driving more people to FOSS based systemsAug 21 14:32
cubezzzI've seen it happen actuallyAug 21 14:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Minnesota Follows California on Free Software-inspired Literature Initiative 21 14:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Spread of Ogg/<Video> Beneficial to GNU/Linux Uptake No wonder Apple fights against OggAug 21 14:35
schestowitzcubezzz: yes, it doesAug 21 14:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Oracle a Step Closer to Being Owner of Solaris, Java, MySQL, OOo... 21 14:37
schestowitz"It's easier for our software to compete with Linux when there's piracy than when there's not." --Bill GatesAug 21 14:37
cubezzzdo you know the results of the lawsuits regarding the Black Screen?Aug 21 14:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Internet Does to Newspapers What Free Software Does to Microsoft and Apple 21 14:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Plantronics 550 headset + Ubuntu + GTK-Recordmydesktop = screencast heaven (for me) :)Aug 21 14:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Sony Wants to Own Laughter Recognition 21 14:42
schestowitzcubezzz: no, I wondered about that tooAug 21 14:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Apple Approached Palm with "Likely Illegal" Proposition 21 14:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Mobile Future Leaving Microsoft Well Behind 21 14:48
DaemonFC 21 14:49
DaemonFCGlowing 'bomber worms' discoveredAug 21 14:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Former Microsoft Employee Cusses at Company, Moves to GNU/Linux 21 14:52
DaemonFC"You don't need to be a whistle-blower to get fired from Microsoft. You just need to be on the wrong side of office politics."Aug 21 14:53
DaemonFCsounds like everywhere I've ever workedAug 21 14:53
DaemonFCI find it hard to believe that they would fire someone for asking for a vacation dayAug 21 14:54
schestowitzre BBC article. omg it's teh alienz Aug 21 14:56
DaemonFCthe decoys that those worms drop sound kind of coolAug 21 14:56
DaemonFCscare it and it drops a brightly glowing decoyAug 21 14:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] TextEdit Added ODF Support, ODF Alliance Grows 21 14:58
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Smoking Guns Show Why Microsoft is Banned 21 14:58
DaemonFCRawhide for Fedora 12 still has Mono and TomboyAug 21 14:58
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DaemonFC 21 14:59
schestowitzDid you check?Aug 21 14:59
schestowitzIt's supposed to have gnote and no monoAug 21 14:59
DaemonFCArch beats the crap out of Ubuntu apparently with threading and disk performanceAug 21 14:59
schestowitzFirst alphaAug 21 14:59
DaemonFCschestowitz, I see Tomboy in the Phoronix screenshots anywayAug 21 14:59
DaemonFCso that indicates Mono is still thereAug 21 15:00
DaemonFChmmm, Ubuntu kills Arch on Sqlite thoughAug 21 15:00
DaemonFCSqlite is a beast anywayAug 21 15:01
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] 9" Dell £200 at Morgan, Eee900 £170 I remain unemployed. ARGH.Aug 21 15:18
*schestowitz watches 'The Bush Family, Money "The Root of All Evil"' 21 15:20
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Omar871HiAug 21 15:57
Omar871Anyone here uses Arch Linux?Aug 21 15:57
Omar871I'm thinking of giving it a test drive sometime soon.Aug 21 15:58
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Rocknerd: sorta viewable for the moment. 21 15:59
schestowitzI saw a praise of Arch todayAug 21 15:59
schestowitzHi, wallclimber Aug 21 15:59
wallclimbergood morning!Aug 21 15:59
neighborleeOmar871, its not unlike gentoo , in that it wont please someone who wants a easy to use linux, but its not quite as demanding as gentoo :)Aug 21 16:05
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*DaemonFC suspects another moat cleaning is in order in schestowitz-landAug 21 16:06
DaemonFC:DAug 21 16:06
DaemonFChell, you're paying, right?Aug 21 16:06
Omar871neighborlee: Yeah, I thought so, lol. :)Aug 21 16:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Ramadan Kareem to all Muslims. :-)Aug 21 16:07
Omar871neighborlee: But I do want something I can tinker with. :DAug 21 16:07
*DaemonFC bites his tongueAug 21 16:07
neighborleeOmar871, then I think you'll like itAug 21 16:07
*DaemonFC gives Omar871 XP and a hex editorAug 21 16:08
Omar871neighborlee: ;)Aug 21 16:08
DaemonFCthat ought to hold him for a whileAug 21 16:08
Omar871XP? As in Win XP?Aug 21 16:10
DaemonFCsureAug 21 16:10
Omar871LOL, so you're saying Win XP is something I can tinker with? :DAug 21 16:10
schestowitzHe loves XP. DaemonFC is a Windows userAug 21 16:11
schestowitz /s/user/luser/Aug 21 16:11
DaemonFCI've tinkered with itAug 21 16:11
DaemonFCstill, the thing I wonder most is why you have to crack the theming dll to use non-Microsoft approved themesAug 21 16:12
Omar871DaemonFC: To what level? (E.g.: Did you even manage to get near the kernel?)Aug 21 16:12
DaemonFCmost of the Windows 2003 kernel source is available, albeit under a very restricted licenseAug 21 16:12
wallclimberHmmm...why doesn't this surprise me? Microsoft, Yahoo, Amazon to fight Google book dealAug 21 16:13
wallclimber 21 16:13
schestowitzwallclimber: yes, seen itAug 21 16:13
schestowitzI was gonna write about it laterAug 21 16:13
schestowitzBartzmersoft! is now a Microsoft assetAug 21 16:13
wallclimberIt's sad.Aug 21 16:13
schestowitzThis is not the first time that Microsoft created or supports a coalition against Google in books, either directly or by proxy, as proven many times before.Aug 21 16:14
DaemonFCa sizeable chunk of XP, Windows 2000, and NT 4 leaked out a while backAug 21 16:14
DaemonFCMicrosoft was pissedAug 21 16:14
Omar871schestowitz: So now we can say that Amazon is becoming an MS puppet? Just like ASUS and Novell?Aug 21 16:14
schestowitzwallclimber: I was gonna make posts only tonight.Aug 21 16:15
DaemonFC 21 16:15
schestowitzI do it faster if I do it in a burstAug 21 16:15
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schestowitzOther sources already mentioned the Yahoo! roleAug 21 16:15
DaemonFCthis guy posted some of the funnier commentingAug 21 16:15
Omar871DaemonFC: Exactly, It's not as free as Linux. And it'll never be, lol. :)Aug 21 16:15
schestowitzSo it's not as though I an point out anything non-obviousAug 21 16:15
cubezzzit might be easier to say who isn't a microsoft puppetAug 21 16:15
wallclimberI don't understand it, really...are these book deals of Google's exclusive?  Or can anyone else do the same thing?  Didn't MS do some scanning too, then lost interest?Aug 21 16:15
schestowitzIn fact, there's no item of urgency so far todayAug 21 16:15
Omar871cubezzz: Yeah man, unfortunately. -_-Aug 21 16:16
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schestowitzwallclimber: those book deals are badAug 21 16:16
wallclimberwhy?Aug 21 16:16
schestowitzI just don't like the convincted criminals from Redmond playing it knights on white horsesAug 21 16:16
schestowitzMicrosoft tried to do that tooAug 21 16:16
schestowitzBut because they failed, then Google is "evil"Aug 21 16:16
schestowitzwallclimber: book monopoliesAug 21 16:16
schestowitzI'm not going to play alone with Microsoft talking pointsAug 21 16:17
wallclimberI see, I thought you meant the google book deals are badAug 21 16:17
schestowitzBut those scans become GOogle propertyAug 21 16:17
schestowitzLike satellite data becomes a doupolyAug 21 16:17
schestowitzUntil openstareetmapAug 21 16:17
schestowitzwallclimber: No, I do mean thatAug 21 16:17
schestowitzProject Gutenberg or the likes of it should get those dealAug 21 16:17
schestowitzIt should be public assetAug 21 16:18
schestowitzTo be managed like WikipediaAug 21 16:18
wallclimberso, google's deals are exclusive and block others from scanning too?Aug 21 16:18
schestowitzWikimedia receives $500,000 from Hewlett Foundation 21 16:18
schestowitzMicrosoft is just a greedy bastard tooAug 21 16:18
schestowitzThey only complain cause they want to abuse book for their shareholdersAug 21 16:18
cubezzzlol, libraries have had photocopiers for as long as I rememberAug 21 16:19
cubezzzyou can't block anybodyAug 21 16:19
DaemonFCschestowitz, in "like Wikipedia", you mean heavily suppressed, censored, self-edited by the bad guys, and arbitrarily edited in unexplained "office" decisions?Aug 21 16:19
schestowitzI think that Ballmer's 'penis envy' of Schmidt might lead him to impotenceAug 21 16:19
DaemonFCthat's one hell of a public asset alrightAug 21 16:19
schestowitzDaemonFC: OK, WikiSourceAug 21 16:19
neighborleeOmar871, btw there is a livecd if you dont feel like doing the geeky installer : arch I mean ;)Aug 21 16:20
DaemonFCWikipedia is crashing and burning because of that, idiots cite it blindly even in important essays without fact checkingAug 21 16:20
wallclimberIf other organizations can do the same scanning of books, like Google does, then why is it a problem?Aug 21 16:20
DaemonFCin a real encyclopedia you shouldn't have to fact check every single sentenceAug 21 16:20
DaemonFCand I don't recall "Penis Penis Penis" being an article in Comptons or BritannicaAug 21 16:20
wallclimberhow do those scanned books become the property of Google?Aug 21 16:20
Omar871neighborlee: Yeah, I know about it. :)Aug 21 16:21
neighborleekAug 21 16:21
Omar871neighborlee: Thanks though. ;)Aug 21 16:21
neighborleenpAug 21 16:21
wallclimbersorry to seem so obtuse, but it seems like there's more to thisAug 21 16:21
cubezzzdepends on the encyclopedia I'd sayAug 21 16:21
DaemonFCWikipedia = duct-tape-and-popsicle-stick-opediaAug 21 16:22
DaemonFC:PAug 21 16:22
DaemonFCread it for amusement or unimportant issues, cite it at your perilAug 21 16:22
Omar871DaemonFC: What do you mean by: "and I don't recall "Penis Penis Penis" being an article in Comptons or Britannica"?Aug 21 16:22
DaemonFCvandalsAug 21 16:23
Omar871vandals?Aug 21 16:23
DaemonFCmost of them are just stupid, but some have managed to wreck entire articles in subtle waysAug 21 16:23
schestowitzAsimov's robot laws need updating < >Aug 21 16:23
DaemonFCand companies tend to self-edit their own articlesAug 21 16:23
DaemonFCnot just companies, government agenciesAug 21 16:23
schestowitzwallclimber: I'd have to look up the detailsAug 21 16:24
schestowitzBTW, Microsoft faild in itAug 21 16:24
schestowitzThey triedAug 21 16:24
DaemonFCthere's this internal clique of editors who never get reverted no matter how wrong their edit isAug 21 16:24
schestowitzShut it down like a loserAug 21 16:24
DaemonFCand shove criticisms into their own obscure articlesAug 21 16:24
DaemonFCyes, Microsoft does do itAug 21 16:25
schestowitzEnough with this Wikipedia bashingAug 21 16:25
schestowitzYou're just resentful because of what they write on religion and homosexuality IIRCAug 21 16:25
cubezzzMicrosoft is criticized a lot on wikipediaAug 21 16:26
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DaemonFCit doesn't even deserve to be bashed, it should jsut stand out how utterly craptastic it isAug 21 16:26
schestowitzWikipedia is a lot more liberal than the typical Fox thingAug 21 16:26
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DaemonFCschestowitz, if anything, there's a far right-wing slant on a lot of itAug 21 16:26
schestowitz "THE FORMER BRITISH COLONY of Virginia has taken a leaf from China's little red book and rushed to create a clinic for the treatment of Internet addiction"Aug 21 16:27
cubezzzwell, I'm sure if must be a complete mixAug 21 16:27
cubezzzsince there are so many editorsAug 21 16:27
schestowitz[citation needed]Aug 21 16:27
DaemonFCthey use weasel wording and cite original research to make their bunk stickAug 21 16:27
DaemonFCeverything from religious propoganda to pseudoscienceAug 21 16:28
schestowitzFCC to vote on US mobile competition probe< >\Aug 21 16:28
taconeL'obiettivo, ancora una volta, è Mountain View. La santa alleanza tra Microsoft e Yahoo! sta per mettere nel mirino un altro pezzo pregiato dell'immenso portafoglio targato Google:Aug 21 16:28
DaemonFC*propagandaAug 21 16:28
cubezzzwikipedia is ok as a starting pointAug 21 16:28
cubezzzgeneral infoAug 21 16:28
taconeTarget is, yet again, Mountain View. The *holy* alliance between MS and Yahoo is going to .. (blablabla) (google books)Aug 21 16:28
Eruaranhello to allAug 21 16:28
taconeI'm getting tired of all this shit on generic newspapersAug 21 16:29
schestowitz'The action will take place on Sunday 23 August when, according to the gotopless website (PNSFW), "topless women will rally in great numbers across the USA to protest this gross inequality in the law and will demand that they be granted the fundamental right to be topless where men already enjoy that right according to the 14th amendment of the Constitution".'Aug 21 16:29
schestowitz 21 16:29
Eruaranoh good griefAug 21 16:29
DaemonFCWikipedia's article on the "conversion" of homosexuals is slanted and cites original pseudoscientific research done by front groups and con artists masquerading as scientists and psychiatristsAug 21 16:29
DaemonFCif you don't dig into the citations, you may jsut figure it's a real field of researchAug 21 16:30
schestowitzEruaran: `it's normal in some societiesAug 21 16:30
schestowitzMany in factAug 21 16:30
schestowitzSome are the oppositeAug 21 16:30
EruaranIs everybody having separate conversations with themselves tonight ?Aug 21 16:30
cubezzzok, I think fat slobs should be forced into shirt wearing statusAug 21 16:30
schestowitzYou can't even expose the face, if you're a ladyAug 21 16:30
cubezzzin shape people are exemptedAug 21 16:30
DaemonFCcubezzz, sometimes a cigar is just a cigarAug 21 16:30
DaemonFCwhat can I say?Aug 21 16:30
cubezzzEruaran, same as always :)Aug 21 16:31
wallclimberEruaran: I talk to myself a lot anyway, so it's nice to be able to do it in public :o)Aug 21 16:31
DaemonFCChristians sensationalize and demonize and just try not to stop until everyone else thinks there's a homosexual hiding under their bed who's after their childrenAug 21 16:32
DaemonFCthat's the main problem I have with religious types, and is precisely what's wrong with WikipediaAug 21 16:32
DaemonFCturns out there's a lot of "consensus" in that groupAug 21 16:32
cubezzzright, if you're close to the equator, then you don't have to where a shirt, next problem please :)Aug 21 16:32
schestowitzApple to offer own-brand HDTV, claims analyst < >Aug 21 16:32
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schestowitzFunny how nobody complains about any single animal having its genitalia hanging. We humans are special in that we have to be ashamed of what we are, I guess.Aug 21 16:34
DaemonFCI can see it now. They cost three times as much as a regular TV, only work with Apple Blu Ray players, and  explode now and then, but they sell anyway cause everyone agrees they look coolAug 21 16:34
DaemonFCschestowitz, ever since the WOMAN gave the man the apple, that was given to her by the devil you see, who had possessed a snakeAug 21 16:35
DaemonFCit all just makes far too much sense to ignoreAug 21 16:35
DaemonFCand it all happened 6,000 years agoAug 21 16:35
schestowitzof courseAug 21 16:35
schestowitzAnd that sin is what Mr. Christ was hangedAug 21 16:35
schestowitzGod incarnated himself to be executed in an atrocious way so that we have a debt nowAug 21 16:35
cubezzzyeah, it is hard to understandAug 21 16:36
DaemonFCif all this was created 6,000 years ago and light speed is a universal constant, why is there light from stars that has taken many billions of years to get here?Aug 21 16:36
DaemonFCIt's all jsut God testing us I'm sure :DAug 21 16:36
cubezzzI think everyone here can agree the 6,000 year thing is BSAug 21 16:36
schestowitzThe dino skeletons-- ignore themAug 21 16:36
schestowitzGod put em there to test our faithAug 21 16:36
cubezzztrilobites!Aug 21 16:37
cubezzz;-)Aug 21 16:37
DaemonFCschestowitz, better, we lived alongside the dinosaurs according to the Creationist MuseumAug 21 16:37
schestowitzIM client library bug plagues Pidgin < >Aug 21 16:37
schestowitz^new version outAug 21 16:38
DaemonFCat least before the IRS seized it cause the guy cheated on his taxes and owed them $400,000Aug 21 16:38
cubezzzI think we munched on wooly mammoths on occasionAug 21 16:38
schestowitzDaemonFC: yeah...Aug 21 16:38
DaemonFChe's a good Christian man you see?Aug 21 16:38
cubezzzMcMammoth BurgersAug 21 16:38
schestowitzWell, 150,000 years and 15,000,000 is just 3 digit in differenceAug 21 16:38
schestowitz*150,000,000Aug 21 16:38
DaemonFCthe IRS seized it because Obama is the antichristAug 21 16:38
schestowitzwe and dinosaurs are just (ONLY!) 3 zeroes apart in agesAug 21 16:38
schestowitzImagine that. So closeAug 21 16:38
DaemonFCand he hates white peopleAug 21 16:38
DaemonFC:PAug 21 16:38
DaemonFCso there!Aug 21 16:39
cubezzzand the trilobites were way before dinosaursAug 21 16:39
*Balrog_ has quit (Success)Aug 21 16:39
cubezzzlike 250 million years agoAug 21 16:39
DaemonFCYou know what would make the bible really cool?Aug 21 16:39
DaemonFCCylons!Aug 21 16:39
schestowitzNo.Aug 21 16:39
schestowitzOgresAug 21 16:39
schestowitzAnd goblinsAug 21 16:39
cubezzzno :)Aug 21 16:39
neighborleeDaemonFC, right up front though, it does state that American Psychiatric Association recommends ethical practitioners refrain from such practices. <conversion therapy>Aug 21 16:40
cubezzzare we talking old-school or new-school cylons?Aug 21 16:40
DaemonFCneighborlee, yeah, well, you can kill the truth, but it always comes back to haunt youAug 21 16:40
schestowitzCylons would make senseAug 21 16:40
schestowitzBut most enimals here came from a branch of two eyesAug 21 16:40
schestowitzA spare eye is handy for survivalAug 21 16:41
DaemonFCand depth perceptionAug 21 16:41
schestowitzAlso stereoAug 21 16:41
schestowitzYesAug 21 16:41
schestowitzBeat me to itAug 21 16:41
neighborleeDaemonFC, remember something else..young people are FAR less worried about such things,,its mainly older generation, who were taught such things by parents &/or peers..its a generational divide from what Ive seenAug 21 16:41
schestowitzWe have it built isAug 21 16:41
schestowitzWe don't need to think about how to compute itAug 21 16:41
DaemonFCneighborlee, they grew up in a different time, before technology, and it was the only way to explain thingsAug 21 16:41
schestowitzNoAug 21 16:42
schestowitzThey also met GodAug 21 16:42
schestowitzHe lives in a BushAug 21 16:42
neighborleeDaemonFC, also for those citing its abhorant behavior purposely avoid fact its in the animal kingdom,which is part of gods breaks their entire argument LOLAug 21 16:42
schestowitzMind caseAug 21 16:42
DaemonFCif we don't manage to kill ourselves, I'd imagine that in another 200-300 years, there won't be many more religious people leftAug 21 16:42
neighborleewellAug 21 16:42
EruaranWhy is advertising for the Raelian cult ?Aug 21 16:42
neighborleereligion on its own merits isn't badAug 21 16:42
schestowitzWe _have_ to live to learn with one anotherAug 21 16:42
schestowitzOtherwise we'll become extincAug 21 16:42
DaemonFCthe number of religious people has always more or less corresponded to how advanced the technology wasAug 21 16:42
neighborleeits how its practiced which can be problematic ;)Aug 21 16:43
DaemonFCtake away enough technology and even fire is magicAug 21 16:43
schestowitzEruaran: why visit 21 16:43
schestowitzFeeling kinda dirty, aren't you? ;-)Aug 21 16:43
DaemonFCschestowitz, what amuses me is that the Catholic church has scientists, even astronomers nowAug 21 16:43
Eruaran?Aug 21 16:43
schestowitzJokeAug 21 16:43
DaemonFCpeople they would have burned jsut a few hundred years ago for heresyAug 21 16:44
EruaranI followed the link from El RegAug 21 16:44
cubezzzyeah, that must have been a crap timeAug 21 16:44
schestowitzDaemonFC: masquerading is goodAug 21 16:44
DaemonFCif you can't beat them, join them?Aug 21 16:44
schestowitzIt's like the "I use Linux, but..."Aug 21 16:44
schestowitz"I'm a scientist, but..."Aug 21 16:44
cubezzzyou're a witch! No I'm not. You're gonna BURNAug 21 16:44
DaemonFCin otherwords they will always suppress anything that could be a threat to the churchAug 21 16:44
schestowitzEEEAug 21 16:45
cubezzzisn't that what microsoft does?Aug 21 16:45
schestowitzEmbrace and extend and polluteAug 21 16:45
schestowitzI saw some videos on the TuubeAug 21 16:45
schestowitzThey go nicely explaining the big bangAug 21 16:45
schestowitzAnd then......Aug 21 16:45
schestowitzIt's like whoa nelly!Aug 21 16:45
schestowitzThey correlate the bang with GodAug 21 16:45
EruaranI read Fox's book of Martyrs many years agoAug 21 16:45
schestowitzIt's like watching some girl in a filmAug 21 16:46
schestowitzAnd suddenly she turns out to be a blokeAug 21 16:46
DaemonFCyeah, they're trying to assimilate some of what science has proven and fit it into and around what they already believeAug 21 16:46
DaemonFCgrasping at strawsAug 21 16:46
schestowitzTwitter tells you what twits' where 21 16:47
DaemonFCI might hop back onto Fedora when they get the ext4 and KDE situation situatedAug 21 16:48
DaemonFCthat looks like it may be happening in F12Aug 21 16:49
EruaranThat can't be far awayAug 21 16:49
DaemonFCGNOME finally angered me past my threshold with their stupid GUI frontends for audio encodingAug 21 16:49
EruaranKDE 4.3 is sexyAug 21 16:50
DaemonFCit's like they deliberately got everything but ogg Vorbis and FLAC a little bit wrongAug 21 16:50
DaemonFCI don't happen to think that was a coincidenceAug 21 16:50
schestowitzKernel contributions: Canonical, where are you? < >Aug 21 16:50
DaemonFCSoundKonvertor on KDE works fine as long as you spend a few minutes tweaking together your own MP3 encoding profileAug 21 16:51
neighborleeschestowitz, hmmm didnt we see that also in some blender conference ?Aug 21 16:51
DaemonFCSoundConverter on GNOME is unsalvagableAug 21 16:51
neighborleenot sure whom..ton or somebodyAug 21 16:51
DaemonFCI reported quite a few bugs in their MP3 encoding frontend to them and they still haven't fixed themAug 21 16:52
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neighborleegnome always got in the way of reasoned usage imho....alt-tab for instance made sure you had no easy access to running something as if being your nanny ;)Aug 21 16:52
neighborleewhich in part is why linus went to kdeAug 21 16:52
neighborleewhie he's supposedly in gnome, he is reconsidering kdeAug 21 16:53
neighborleewhileAug 21 16:53
DaemonFC"Well, you see, most of our users have no interest in that feature even though it's of critical importance to a significant number of people, we removed that option for simplicity"Aug 21 16:53
wallclimberOkay, I did some more reading and decided to read Google's side too...I still see no problem with the Google book deal. 21 16:53
DaemonFCif I hear that line of thinking again I'm going to screamAug 21 16:53
DaemonFCMost of GNOME works well, but they've dumbed down jsut enough of it to piss me offAug 21 16:54
neighborleewell I would PUT UP with it, were it not for their policy on monoAug 21 16:54
neighborleedeal breaker maximum ;)Aug 21 16:54
EruaranI was appalled by the guy who maintains the screensaver part of gnomeAug 21 16:54
DaemonFCmy favorite is the BSOD screensaverAug 21 16:55
neighborleelolAug 21 16:55
EruaranPeople wanted to be able to configure slideshow screensavers... you know, point to a folder with pictures you want to seeAug 21 16:55
schestowitzVery cool (Blander): 21 16:55
schestowitz*lenderAug 21 16:55
DaemonFCit runs through every OS crash screen, including Linux on various architecturesAug 21 16:55
DaemonFCthe screen where it runs fsck and finds tons of filesystem corruption is hilariousAug 21 16:56
EruaranHis response was that any screensaver that requires configuration is "fundamentally broken"Aug 21 16:56
EruaranMy first thought was, "your brain is fundamentally broken"Aug 21 16:56
schestowitzwallclimber: but Google is EVIL EVIL EVIL [says Microsoft]Aug 21 16:56
DaemonFC"His response was [anything] that requires configuration is broken and they'll choose what's best"Aug 21 16:56
schestowitzIt has evil effect on Microsoft's ability to put bread on the tableAug 21 16:56
DaemonFCfixed that for youAug 21 16:56
wallclimberlol...yes, Microsoft would know about evil :o)Aug 21 16:56
wallclimberAmazon tooAug 21 16:57
schestowitzWhat's their story?Aug 21 16:57
schestowitzThey just DRM bookAug 21 16:57
schestowitzBl00dy buggersAug 21 16:57
schestowitzDRM+software patentsAug 21 16:57
DaemonFCI kind of see what had Linus Torvalds in a flame fest with the GNOME people but now he's saying he's back on GNOME againAug 21 16:57
DaemonFCI have to wonder why, because it hasn't improved any since 2006Aug 21 16:58
DaemonFCthat's for damned sureAug 21 16:58
neighborleefaik it was over kde4Aug 21 16:58
neighborleeBUT he's reconsideringAug 21 16:58
DaemonFChe said KDE 4 was a disaster and left just before they finished cleaning it up?Aug 21 16:58
DaemonFCthat doesn't sound right, to meAug 21 16:58
schestowitzhe tried kde 4.0.xAug 21 16:58
EruaranIts because KDE4 wasnt ready for use and he had a bad experience with it (that he acknowledges may be a distro issue)Aug 21 16:59
DaemonFCFedora's KDE 4.0.2 was where they startedAug 21 16:59
wallclimberI think Linus just gets bored sometimes and starts flame wars for entertainmentAug 21 16:59
DaemonFCand it was all kinds of messed upAug 21 16:59
neighborleewallclimber, hehAug 21 16:59
DaemonFC(he uses Fedora)Aug 21 16:59
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DaemonFCKDE didn't warn people away from 4.0 like they should have, it should have still had a big fat "BETA" stamped on it with the usual warningAug 21 17:00
schestowitzwallclimber: it doesn't matter what Google does. It's evil evil evil screaming with its hair on fireAug 21 17:00
EruaranTriviaAug 21 17:00
schestowitzAs long as MS controls the US govtAug 21 17:00
schestowitzWhich it still doesAug 21 17:00
schestowitzIt put many minions in charge around 1998Aug 21 17:00
EruaranDid you know that Atari and Commodore at one time fought over a little company called "Amiga..."Aug 21 17:00
DaemonFCschestowitz, and $80,000 per song is a perfectly constitutional fineAug 21 17:00
schestowitzIt also supported the corrupt regime that brought it out of punishmentAug 21 17:00
schestowitzWHen Bush stole the electionAug 21 17:01
DaemonFC(when 6 people in the DOJ are former RIAA lawyers)Aug 21 17:01
wallclimberI was told by Jo Shields that my opinions didn't count, and that he knew best about what Ubuntu users needed.Aug 21 17:01
schestowitzHe doesAug 21 17:01
schestowitzHe's the bestAug 21 17:01
cubezzzEruaran, yes, I'm very familiar with that timeAug 21 17:01
schestowitzBest of breed evenAug 21 17:01
wallclimberSo, I won't be using GNOME after October...Aug 21 17:01
cubezzzAmiga isn't quite dead btwAug 21 17:01
schestowitzSee? Jo wonAug 21 17:02
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DaemonFCI'm of really mixed opinion of Obama, he's not all bad, but he has some bad people that apparently have something on himAug 21 17:02
cubezzzcheck out http://softhut.comAug 21 17:02
schestowitzAnother victory for Mono Aug 21 17:02
neighborleecubezzz, at least to those who still have some hardware its not ;) < me included >Aug 21 17:02
DaemonFCRIAA and Microsoft people getting govt positionsAug 21 17:02
wallclimberwhy is that a victory?Aug 21 17:02
DaemonFCin areas where they regulate themselvesAug 21 17:02
Eruarancubezzz: I think the 80's is a fascinating period in computing historyAug 21 17:02
taconewhich vict ?Aug 21 17:02
schestowitzwallclimber: sarcasmAug 21 17:02
schestowitzReverseAug 21 17:02
cubezzzneighborlee, there was some production recentlyAug 21 17:02
neighborleehmAug 21 17:02
schestowitzThe pro-Mono 'zealots' drive many people awayAug 21 17:03
EruaranI think there was more progress in the 80's than in any decade sinceAug 21 17:03
EruaranThink about itAug 21 17:03
schestowitzOhAug 21 17:03
wallclimberlol...sorry, I'm a little dense this morning...Aug 21 17:03
cubezzztrouble is, even amiga 4000 would be very old techAug 21 17:03
schestowitzHas anyone seenn 'Dan O'Brian' recently?Aug 21 17:03
schestowitzIt just vanishedAug 21 17:03
neighborleeschestowitz, yeah turns out they were our best supporters lolAug 21 17:03
schestowitzAnd it was based near NovellAug 21 17:03
schestowitzI reckon it was maybe a PR agentAug 21 17:03
EruaranLook at where computers start from in 1980, and look at where they are by 1990.Aug 21 17:03
DaemonFCschestowitz: The reason the big business doesn't want to shut down the regulatory agencies is because if they can get their people planted there then there's still something there that looks like it's regulating them fairly and if people complain, they can still say they're regulatedAug 21 17:04
cubezzzmy zaurus has way more memory than my Amiga 500 ever didAug 21 17:04
DaemonFCif they just got rid of the agency, people would plainly see there was no regulation and put something there to regulate themAug 21 17:04
EruaranBut what the Amiga did with so little memory...Aug 21 17:05
DaemonFCyes, the Video ToasterAug 21 17:05
cubezzzif Commodore survived and AmigaDOS was FOSS, AMiga could be as big as Linux todayAug 21 17:05
DaemonFCthat was some serious firepower for a mid-80's desktop computerAug 21 17:05
EruaranIt still had serious firepower in the early 90'sAug 21 17:05
DaemonFCit continued to be used well into the late 90sAug 21 17:05
schestowitzYou want firepower, gte xboxAug 21 17:05
DaemonFCthat's how good it wasAug 21 17:05
schestowitzIt'll catch fire 6 times in a rowAug 21 17:05
cubezzzlook at David Haynie's videos, very interestingAug 21 17:05
schestowitzAnd there's waranty tooAug 21 17:06
DaemonFCBabylon 5's visual effects were done on the Amiga's Video Toaster appAug 21 17:06
EruaranI remember I had a friend who had an A1200... it ran rings around my PCAug 21 17:06
schestowitz*warrentyAug 21 17:06
schestowitz*antAug 21 17:06
Eruaran(I had a 486 back then)Aug 21 17:06
DaemonFCAmigaOS 4 was goodAug 21 17:06
DaemonFCif they had open sourced it, it would easily have overtaken LinuxAug 21 17:06
DaemonFCat the time Linux was still very temperamental and didn't have drivers for msot hardwareAug 21 17:06
cubezzzwell, if it was open sourced in 1985 then who knows?Aug 21 17:07
DaemonFCno, AmigaOS 4 was from the early 2000sAug 21 17:07
EruaranIf it was open sourced in 1985 there would have been no Windows 95 ;)Aug 21 17:07
cubezzzno MMU in the Amiga 500 though, so it probably wouldn't have been too goodAug 21 17:08
DaemonFC 21 17:08
DaemonFCthat's AmigaOS 4.1Aug 21 17:08
DaemonFCerr, 4.0Aug 21 17:08
cubezzzright, I'm sure AmigaDOS 4+ was a million times betterAug 21 17:08
DaemonFCfor some reason they made it only for PPCAug 21 17:08
DaemonFCwhich was bonehead stupidAug 21 17:08
DaemonFCnobody has them and the people that do use Mac OSAug 21 17:08
EruaranWhat about Aros ?Aug 21 17:09
cubezzzbut I bet modern linux beats AmigaDOS 4Aug 21 17:09
DaemonFC 21 17:09
DaemonFC4.1 released September 2008Aug 21 17:09
cubezzzcan you compile the kernel? :)Aug 21 17:10
DaemonFCnoAug 21 17:10
DaemonFCthere's still some situations where Linux gets confused and panicsAug 21 17:10
DaemonFCthose are getting more rare thoughAug 21 17:10
DaemonFCusually a bad BIOS but they're working around those pretty well nowAug 21 17:10
DaemonFClook in the kernel log for "AMI BIOS detected"Aug 21 17:11
DaemonFC"BIOS may corrupt low RAM, working around it"Aug 21 17:11
DaemonFC:DAug 21 17:11
Eruaran 21 17:11
cubezzzyeah, aros looks like it's still aroundAug 21 17:12
DaemonFCwell, ideally, everything could be scrapped and done from scratch without any legaciesAug 21 17:12
DaemonFCbut people don't tend to go along with thatAug 21 17:12
cubezzzI can't agree, as I use old hardwareAug 21 17:12
DaemonFC"You mean my Pentium 90 would stop working? Damn you!!!!"Aug 21 17:13
cubezzzscrapping stuff is microsoft's style...Aug 21 17:13
DaemonFC"I could have gotten another 20 years out of that with Linux!"Aug 21 17:13
DaemonFCthere's frugal and there's CHEAPAug 21 17:14
cubezzzDaemonFC, should I put my 10 year old _working_ scanner in a landfill?Aug 21 17:14
DaemonFCFedora 12 won't even support the original Pentium btwAug 21 17:14
DaemonFCthey're targeting 32-bit x86 to i686 which means Pentium 2 and higherAug 21 17:15
DaemonFCfor the longest time they were doign i386 and it was like "Oh god why!?"Aug 21 17:15
DaemonFCdoes anyone use Fedora on a 386? Probably not. Kill it and give everyone else a nice 5% performance boost" :PAug 21 17:16
schestowitzHow Free Software Magazine overcame the 3FN disaster and switched to CariNet < >Aug 21 17:16
cubezzzwell, there's not very much PPC development done nowAug 21 17:17
DaemonFCthey were compiling it with like no optimizations until Fedora 10 because they were worried about breaking systems it wouldn't run on anywayAug 21 17:17
cubezzzI have my zaurus still, that's about 7 years old, SA-1110 basedAug 21 17:17
cubezzzof course I'm not going to put Fedora 12 on itAug 21 17:17
DaemonFCI'd say probably 99% of the people out there usign a 32-bit CPU would tell them to go ahead with i686 optimizationAug 21 17:18
DaemonFCbecause it'll still work on most systems all the was back to 10-11 years oldAug 21 17:18
DaemonFC*wayAug 21 17:18
cubezzzwell, if you really want to run 386 you canAug 21 17:18
cubezzzanything with at least an MMU in itAug 21 17:19
schestowitz 21 17:19
DaemonFCI don't think any 386 systems probably even have enough RAM to load a 2.6.31 kernelAug 21 17:19
schestowitz"Today Unix systems are everywhere. All of the variants of the successful GNU/Linux operating system, including the recently-announced Google Chrome OS, build on an original design that came from Unix via a teaching implementation called Minix written by Andrew Tanenbaum."Aug 21 17:19
DaemonFCmuch less anything elseAug 21 17:19
cubezzz386 could run ftp, sendmail, etcAug 21 17:19
schestowitzIs he trying to imply the Microsoft-funded lie is correct? Linus was only inspired by minixAug 21 17:19
EruaranIn the 80's, computing went from 8Bit to 32BitAug 21 17:19
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EruaranWhy didn't the 90's go from 32Bit to 128Bit ?Aug 21 17:20
DaemonFCyou may just get away with running Linux on a 486 with terminal onlyAug 21 17:20
DaemonFCbecause nobody has 100 zillion petabytes of RAM?Aug 21 17:20
DaemonFC128-bit memory addressing?Aug 21 17:20
Eruarancome onAug 21 17:20
DaemonFCthat's insaneAug 21 17:20
Eruaranyou know you want itAug 21 17:20
Eruaran;)Aug 21 17:20
schestowitzMaybe complexityAug 21 17:20
DaemonFCtry 50 years from nowAug 21 17:20
schestowitzThw question is, why still 32-bitAug 21 17:21
schestowitzAnswer: WindwsAug 21 17:21
schestowitzOr WintelAug 21 17:21
DaemonFCWindows does not rely on a 32-bit CPUAug 21 17:21
schestowitzIt relies on binariesAug 21 17:21
schestowitzAnd companies make binariesAug 21 17:21
schestowitzRarely for 64-bitAug 21 17:21
DaemonFCcompanies make 32-bit binaries for LinuxAug 21 17:21
DaemonFCso you need the compatibility there tooAug 21 17:21
schestowitzLinux has cookers and stuffAug 21 17:21
cubezzz32-bit is still fine for most stuffAug 21 17:22
DaemonFC32-bit software on a 64-bit OS is still perfectly fineAug 21 17:22
cubezzzpeople are spoiled nowAug 21 17:22
DaemonFCunless your process needs more than 3 gigs of RAMAug 21 17:22
DaemonFCthen I'd really like to know what the process isAug 21 17:22
cubezzzI remember 4K commdore pets in storesAug 21 17:22
cubezzzit was that or nothing :)Aug 21 17:22
schestowitzMeh. N00bs spread FUD.Aug 21 17:23
EruaranI had a friend when I was a kid who had a Commodore VIC-20Aug 21 17:23
schestowitz"CHROME OS to end Linux Distro's [..] But, being that the Linux/GNU community is made up of hackers i still think a few will make their own."Aug 21 17:23
schestowitzYeah, CHROME as acronymAug 21 17:23
schestowitzAnd Linux-GNU communityAug 21 17:23
DaemonFCWhat process needs 3 gigs of RAM? If it's THAT damned important, they will offer a 64-bit binaryAug 21 17:23
schestowitzClueless ops passed as 'articles' Aug 21 17:23
schestowitzBut, being that the Linux/GNU community is made up of hackers i still think a few will make their own.Aug 21 17:23
EruaranLinux/GNU ?Aug 21 17:23
schestowitz 21 17:23
schestowitzYeah, Seattle FUDAug 21 17:23
cubezzznon programmers writing about programmingAug 21 17:23
cubezzzor operating systemsAug 21 17:24
cubezzzbut that's the reality nowAug 21 17:24
EruaranIts like that reporter who asked Slash how things are going with Guns n RosesAug 21 17:24
DaemonFCa 64-bit OS can address hundreds of gigs of RAM, but each 32-bit process can use up to 3 gigsAug 21 17:24
EruaranAnd Slash says, "I don't know I'm not in that band"Aug 21 17:24
DaemonFConly really high end games and maybe video editing need thatAug 21 17:24
EruaranAnd the reporter says, "uh ?"Aug 21 17:24
schestowitzSupercomputing need large address spaceAug 21 17:25
schestowitz*needsAug 21 17:25
DaemonFCrightAug 21 17:25
Eruaranand supercoolingAug 21 17:25
Eruaranwith sexy seatingAug 21 17:25
DaemonFCtalking about a desktop PC hereAug 21 17:25
DaemonFCmost users don't even need to know or care if a program is 32-bit or 64-bitAug 21 17:25
EruaranLike the early Cray'sAug 21 17:25
DaemonFCthe OS can run eitherAug 21 17:25
EruaranYou can play Doom on the old Cray's you knowAug 21 17:26
Eruaran:DAug 21 17:26
DaemonFChaving a 64-bit Firefox is ridiculous, but it can be doneAug 21 17:26
DaemonFCI should seriously hope Firefox doesn't need 3 gigs of RAM in any particular situationAug 21 17:27
EruaranI think the web browser as we know it will dissappearAug 21 17:27
DaemonFCapparently Linux distros think it very well may and it's worth giving up all your plugins or hacking them inAug 21 17:27
EruaranWhy do I need a specific application called a "web browser" to access the web ?Aug 21 17:28
DaemonFCweb browsers have all become terribly overgrown and let sites spy on youAug 21 17:29
DaemonFCwhy? advertisers!Aug 21 17:29
DaemonFCbling bling CSS layoutsAug 21 17:29
EruaranohAug 21 17:29
EruaranI knew itAug 21 17:29
DaemonFCscripts that occasionally escape the confines of the browser and screw with your systemAug 21 17:29
DaemonFCyou know, important everyday stuff that you needAug 21 17:30
DaemonFCreally in an ideal world, web browsers wouldn't have to be half as complicated because people would stop worrying about how pretty the site was and start worrying if it had anything on it worth readingAug 21 17:32
DaemonFCsites even use Javascript now to make sure their ads loadedAug 21 17:32
DaemonFCand harass you if they didn'tAug 21 17:33
Diablo-D3IN MY IDEAL WORLDAug 21 17:36
Diablo-D3all women would be hotAug 21 17:36
Diablo-D3and nakedAug 21 17:36
Diablo-D3and availableAug 21 17:36
Diablo-D3in that orderAug 21 17:36
DaemonFCSexual Harrassment World?Aug 21 17:36
Diablo-D3oh, and in my ideal world, all the women want it 24/7Aug 21 17:37
Diablo-D3and Im the only guy in the worldAug 21 17:37
Diablo-D3and since I only have one dick, there will be rampant hot lesbianismAug 21 17:38
schestowitzDiablo-D3: shut upAug 21 17:40
Diablo-D3in my ideal world, theres no microsoft either ;)Aug 21 17:42
schestowitzIs DistroWatch doing pictures now? 21 17:42
schestowitzScreenshots thereAug 21 17:42
schestowitzI guess it's true: 21 17:43
schestowitzScreenshotsAug 21 17:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] DistroWatch has apparently just begun putting screenshots in page, e.g. ; 21 17:45
schestowitzAnother one: 21 17:46
Eruarandistrowatch could do with a faceliftAug 21 17:50
EruaranHow about a Drupal based BN ?Aug 21 17:51
schestowitzEruaran: they planned a facelift a while agoAug 21 17:53
schestowitzIt was never implementedAug 21 17:53
EruaranohAug 21 17:53
schestowitzBN CMS migration is hard and not justified. MediaWiki and WordPress do what I requireAug 21 17:54
schestowitzE.g. 21 17:54
schestowitzwallclimber: have you considered using the Wiki?Aug 21 17:54
schestowitzWe can edit out typos very easily that way and merge textsAug 21 17:55
schestowitz 21 17:57
schestowitzHehe. Wilcox: aars "shows another side of Microsoft"Aug 21 17:58
schestowitzNot it doesn'tAug 21 17:58
schestowitzAARD shows MicrosoftAug 21 17:58
schestowitzNot "another side"Aug 21 17:58
Diablo-D3 21 18:01
Diablo-D3grrrrrrrrAug 21 18:01
wallclimberoops, I wandered off...sorry.Aug 21 18:03
EruaranI rarely come across a Silverlight siteAug 21 18:03
schestowitzIs this a marketing blog from the criminals (Intel)? 21 18:03
wallclimberI'm a little nervous about trying to use the wiki...I'm afraid I'd be moore hindrance than helpAug 21 18:03
wallclimber*more*Aug 21 18:04
schestowitzwallclimber: it's just free text thereAug 21 18:04
schestowitzVery simple text everyone can improve.Aug 21 18:04
amarsh04question about Canonical and kernel contributions - do they even report kernel bugs and ack fixes? My only mention in kernel logs is a reported-by and acked-by as I'm not a C programmer, but that still helped fix a kernel problemAug 21 18:04
wallclimberso I couldn't break anything?Aug 21 18:04
schestowitzChanges are tracked and can be rolled back, so nothing can be harmedAug 21 18:04
schestowitzwallclimber: I've used private Wikis since 2004 to communicate with peopleAug 21 18:05
schestowitzEven my parents have used wikis since 2004, I guess :-)Aug 21 18:05
schestowitzamarsh04: they communicate with DebianAug 21 18:05
schestowitzI don't know about kernel spaceAug 21 18:05
schestowitzwallclimber: nothing can be brokenAug 21 18:05
schestowitzChanges are comulativeAug 21 18:06
wallclimberok...Aug 21 18:06
schestowitz:-)Aug 21 18:06
amarsh04ah ok schestowitz... I raised an issue with Debian kernel developers when they stopped including pcspkr as a compiled module and they added the option back in to compile it as a module (needed on this old pre-acpi pc)Aug 21 18:07
schestowitzDiablo-D3: he's disgracing mysql in that photoAug 21 18:07
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schestowitzamarsh04: many comments here: 21 18:09
Diablo-D3mysql disgraces itselfAug 21 18:09
cubezzzcray, I wonder if anyone uses those stillAug 21 18:09
amarsh04I should catch up with againAug 21 18:10
schestowitzwallclimber: try this: 21 18:10
schestowitzNo fancy markup in that one. Corresponding PDFs not completeAug 21 18:10
schestowitzI out it there around JanuaryAug 21 18:10
DaemonFCamarsh04: I haven't seen any real important kernel patches from UbuntuAug 21 18:10
schestowitzamarsh04: TuxMachines is betterAug 21 18:10
DaemonFCI've looked in from time to time, they submit some trivial bug patches now and thenAug 21 18:11
schestowitzLinuxToday also has this new animated ads I had to kill with adblock plusAug 21 18:11
DaemonFCmost of their kernel team just backports mainline patches into their own git repositoryAug 21 18:11
schestowitzUbuntu's bug #1 is hoarding usersAug 21 18:11
schestowitzMore insights from Eldar: Windows Mobile is dead, new Linux mobile OS from Samsung < >Aug 21 18:12
amarsh04I use adblock plus and noscript with amongst many other sitesAug 21 18:12
cubezzzI'm not too keen on ubuntu myselfAug 21 18:12
FxChiPDiablo-D3, how does mysql disgrace itself?Aug 21 18:15
FxChiPalso, hiAug 21 18:15
FxChiP:DAug 21 18:15
schestowitzamarsh04: (Shuttleworth Offers Canonical Employees to Debian)Aug 21 18:17
schestowitzI still think it's counter-productive to pressure Ubuntu so muchAug 21 18:17
*amarsh04 clicksAug 21 18:18
schestowitzMono is another story because I view it as Microsoft infecting Linux, for a bad reasonAug 21 18:18
amarsh04I went and heard this guy speak last night: 21 18:18
schestowitzMono!=SUSEAug 21 18:18
schestowitzMono=group of Microsoft fans (or former fans/employees) who hack on .NETAug 21 18:18
schestowitzSUSE=Linux peopleAug 21 18:19
cubezzzinteresting fact: As of 2007, the fastest PC processors perform over 40 GFLOPS, over 130 times faster[1] than a Cray-1.Aug 21 18:21
amarsh04I'm still of the opinion that Debian needs to freeze around something worthwhile and stable (e.g. KDE 4.3 working well with all useful apps from KDE 3.5.X ported or working under KDE 4.3, Kernel mode setting for most graphics cards, or even just an increase in supported hardware), but not to go backwards with a new releaseAug 21 18:21
amarsh04backwards meaning features/apps from a previous release no longer working or availableAug 21 18:22
Diablo-D3FxChiP: it exists.Aug 21 18:24
Diablo-D3postgresql > mysqlAug 21 18:24
FxChiPwatAug 21 18:25
FxChiPhowAug 21 18:25
Diablo-D3if you have to ask, you shouldnt be using sqlAug 21 18:25
amarsh04I'd rather use a database that supports a common glue package e.g. perl's mod DBIAug 21 18:25
FxChiPoh lol what a delightfully elitist, arrogant responseAug 21 18:25
amarsh04I migrated an app from mysql to oracle that wayAug 21 18:26
FxChiPyou must use DebianAug 21 18:26
FxChiP:DAug 21 18:26
amarsh04I do now, but the migration above was from client app and mysql on Digital Unix to a client on Red Hat Linux talking to Oracle on SolarisAug 21 18:27
FxChiPamarsh04, wasn't referring to you, but niceAug 21 18:29
amarsh04well, lots of people do use Debian FxChipAug 21 18:29
schestowitzOracle wants to see more migrations like thatAug 21 18:29
schestowitzoracle owns mysql nowAug 21 18:29
schestowitzneighborlee: 21 18:30
schestowitzNovell employee... usually Mono.. smearing me sometimesAug 21 18:31
Diablo-D3amarsh04: you're kidding me, right?Aug 21 18:31
Diablo-D3[01:33:22] <amarsh04> I'd rather use a database that supports a common glue package e.g. perl's mod DBIAug 21 18:31
schestowitz"Should either rename g_mime_filter_best_encoding() to get_encoding() or else make sure that GMime.metadata 'fixes' the method name to be GetEncoding so that it will appear as a C# property getter."Aug 21 18:31
Diablo-D3dbi has a pg dbdAug 21 18:31
cubezzzcome on, google uses mysqlAug 21 18:31
Diablo-D3do you know how I know?Aug 21 18:31
schestowitzcubezzz: sqlite tooAug 21 18:31
schestowitzLibproxy 0.3.0 released < >Aug 21 18:32
FxChiPhahahaAug 21 18:32
amarsh04Diablo-D3... I don't do database work now... the work I did was migrating to Oracle which Adelaide Uni already had, if I was doing further database work I'd probably be using postresql, but again, I'd use a layer between the app and database to not be tied to a particular databaseAug 21 18:33
amarsh04so, no argument with you at allAug 21 18:33
Diablo-D3amarsh04: in other words, you'd code it like I wouldAug 21 18:34
Diablo-D3that worksAug 21 18:34
schestowitzOracle got stabbed by Microsft recentlyAug 21 18:34
schestowitzSomeone E-mailed me about itAug 21 18:34
cubezzzok, is there anyone Microsoft didn't stab? :)Aug 21 18:35
schestowitzschestowitz> DataDirect Fills Oracle Connectivity Gap Left by MS with ADO.NET ProvidersAug 21 18:35
schestowitz<schestowitz> As you previously covered (, Microsoft’s decision to deprecate System.Data.OracleClient has left software developers and architects wondering how best to connect .NET applications to Oracle databases. Aug 21 18:35
schestowitz[..]Aug 21 18:35
schestowitzcubezzz: DraculaAug 21 18:35
cubezzzhahaAug 21 18:35
Diablo-D3who cares about microsoft anyhowAug 21 18:36
Diablo-D3as long as JDBC has an oracle driver shit worksAug 21 18:36
FxChiPI don't think your way's the only right way, but okayAug 21 18:36
schestowitz What Really Matters? < >Aug 21 18:37
Diablo-D3FxChiP: seeing as c# is an incompatible implementation of java that no one should use, yes, that is the only right wayAug 21 18:37
FxChiPDiablo-D3, I meant in generalAug 21 18:39
FxChiPI have no qualms with JDBC and I dislike C#Aug 21 18:39
*FxChiP is now known as FxChiP|WorkAug 21 18:39
FxChiP|WorkBut I've gotta go anyway, so laterAug 21 18:39
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cubezzzwell I care enough to _avoid_ microsoft, at least for personal useAug 21 18:45
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schestowitz"My old account was suspended as it was hacked and spammed. Created a new one after waiting for it to be re-activated," < >   <------OpenSUSE guyAug 21 18:50
schestowitzFxChiP|Work: latersAug 21 18:50
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schestowitzWhat derailed the Windows Mobile 7 train? < >Aug 21 18:53
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trmanco 21 19:01
DaemonFC 21 19:12
trmanco 21 19:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Using IE with Hotmail's photo uploads led to security flaw (Updated): 21 19:14
DaemonFC 21 19:17
DaemonFC 21 19:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Noise reduction time. Moving the PC under the desk is step one. Turning off the drobo is step 2 :( and :S and Grr!Aug 21 19:22
schestowitz"1/3 of all Dell netbooks - The follow up comment by Dell was more fascinating. They said that one third of all Dell netbooks ship with Linux. ONE THIRD! It's over for OS hegemony..." 21 19:23
schestowitzI think they said "in some quarters"Aug 21 19:23
cubezzzwell, that sounds goodAug 21 19:23
cubezzzI wonder how many linux laptops they sellAug 21 19:24
taconethey don't do it for income i thinkAug 21 19:24
tacone“We don't see a significant difference between the return rate for Windows versus the return rate for Linux,”Aug 21 19:26
schestowitztrmanco: Microsoft PE routineAug 21 19:26
schestowitz*PRAug 21 19:26
taconeif you're a geek you can learn linux. if you're not, then you just care it worksAug 21 19:26
schestowitzBut It'sBetterWithWindows(R)Aug 21 19:27
schestowitzMicrosoft is still trying to confuse peopleAug 21 19:27
DaemonFC 21 19:31
DaemonFC"Pretty much every single one has at least one "deal-breaker" program, a program which Windows absolutely must support or they won't upgrade. In a high percentage of the cases, the program in question was developed by their in-house programming staff, and it's written in Visual Basic (sometimes even 16-bit Visual Basic), and the person who wrote it doesn't work there any more. In some cases, they don't even have the sourceAug 21 19:31
DaemonFC code any more."Aug 21 19:31
DaemonFClmaoAug 21 19:31
taconeit happens with flash movies as wellAug 21 19:32
taconeand everybody refuses to give out the source to the customer, if the customer has already paied.Aug 21 19:33
tacone*paidAug 21 19:33
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] You really think Sony will be able to keep Linux off the PS3 Slim? < >Aug 21 19:36
schestowitztacone: the question is, paid for _What_?Aug 21 19:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Maemo devices like this one are neat < >, but Nokia is a DRM and software patents proponent, sadly.Aug 21 19:39
schestowitzUsually people pay Microsoft just for an expirable licence to run binariesAug 21 19:39
taconeif the contract doesn't specify anythingAug 21 19:39
taconenobody knowsAug 21 19:39
schestowitzIt illustrates the _long-term_ effects and strengths of FOSSAug 21 19:40
schestowitzThey could branch/fork it if it suits themAug 21 19:40
taconeright.Aug 21 19:40
schestowitzOr put money in the pot along with 100 companies that are also interestedAug 21 19:40
schestowitzThey could employ people at just $10/yarAug 21 19:40
schestowitz*yearAug 21 19:40
schestowitzGoogle News has been acting up a lot recently. This one emerges as news: 21 19:41
taconegtgAug 21 19:42
schestowitzLaters.Aug 21 19:44
schestowitz "Sony also stripped the ability to install Linux on the PS3 Slim according to Wired.Aug 21 19:44
schestowitzThis is bad news for scientists who build Linux clusters with PS3 consoles. On the other hand, I am pretty sure somebody will figure out a hack to install Linux on the PS3 Slim. "Aug 21 19:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Hurrah! Friday night and I'm in labelling plugs and PSUs with my Brother P-Touch 1000. Doesn't get better than this!Aug 21 19:45
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schestowitzSweet nonsense omelet vs OLPC FUDAug 21 19:49
DaemonFCSony probably doesn't want thatAug 21 19:51
DaemonFCthey sell the hardware at a loss on the idea that you'll buy games for itAug 21 19:51
DaemonFCpeople buying 50 of them at a loss of $100 each is probably the last thing they needAug 21 19:52
DaemonFCthey probably figured it would be a "cool value added" feature, being able to run LinuxAug 21 19:53
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DaemonFCthen what they got was a bunch of freeloaders buying them just to run Linux and/or dump their blu ray discs using LinuxAug 21 19:54
DaemonFCI'd say they pretty seriously underestimated the mooch factor of the crows they gotAug 21 19:54
DaemonFCit also means less units on the shelves for people who would buy gamesAug 21 19:54
DaemonFCSony shot themselves in the foot with that, from a business perspective they never should have allowed Linux on the PS3 in the first placeAug 21 19:55
DaemonFC*crowdAug 21 19:55
DaemonFCas for savegame hacks and whatnot, all they have to do is update the console's software and "whoops" trash your Linux partitionAug 21 19:56
DaemonFC"You mean you were running Linux? Sorry, we never supported that configuration"Aug 21 19:57
neighborleeI was going to try yellow dog on it, but well Ill drop that now lol < never a priority, just a curiosity>Aug 21 19:57
trmanco 21 19:57
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DaemonFCit'll be easy to keep Linux off the PS3 Slim just like it's been easy for Microsoft to keep it off the XBOX 360Aug 21 19:58
DaemonFCif you want to use XBOX Live, you'll leave the damned thing alongAug 21 19:58
neighborleeI wonder how many called for tech support too ;0-0Aug 21 19:58
DaemonFC*aloneAug 21 19:58
DaemonFCI saw some shots of people installing Ubuntu on the XBOX 360Aug 21 19:58
DaemonFCthere was a buffer overflow exploit in the dashboard software last yearAug 21 19:59
schestowitz "The biggest software company in the world boasts both fierce critics and staunch defenders. Hyrum Winsocki is proud to count himself among the latter. The porcine 68-year-old Winsocki calls himself the “original Microsoft fanboy,” and it’s a title he richly deserves."Aug 21 19:59
DaemonFCMicrosoft responded to that one pretty quick after they found out people were using it to install LinuxAug 21 19:59
neighborleelolAug 21 19:59
DaemonFCthey not only patched the hole, they wiped out your Linux installation with the same patchAug 21 19:59
neighborlee:)Aug 21 20:00
DaemonFCthe 360 is not friendly to moddersAug 21 20:00
DaemonFCthere's a glob of rubber cement covering the firmware ROMAug 21 20:00
DaemonFCtry getting that off without nailpolish removerAug 21 20:00
DaemonFC(and a chisel)Aug 21 20:00
DaemonFCyou might get to the chip without ruining the motherboard, on your 20th console or soAug 21 20:01
DaemonFCif you want a Linux PC, build a Linux PC, don't ruin a perfectly good XBOX 360, because you *will* ruin itAug 21 20:02
DaemonFCeven if you got to the firmware ROM without damaging the motherboard, and even had something to swap it out for, there's still the little matter of the TPM module not allowing code to run that isn't signed by MicrosoftAug 21 20:03
DaemonFCthe exploit last year only worked because it used the 360's signed bootloader to trick the TPM into letting it boot in the first placeAug 21 20:04
DaemonFCthey have those things locked up tighter than Fort KnoxAug 21 20:04
DaemonFCthis isn't the original XBOX, 14 year old with a soldering gun and 20 minutes, they actually put some effort into this oneAug 21 20:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Foundation Releases ABI Compatibility Checker 21 20:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google Targets 64-bit with Chrome for GNU/Linux 21 20:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] List of Ideas for K Desktop Environment 4.4 21 20:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Red Hat Gains from Bad Economy 21 20:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] MacBook Pro is Feeling Deprived and Slighted After GNU/Linux Experience 21 20:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Android Tablets Are Coming 21 20:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Details on BBC's Documentary on Free Software 21 20:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Interview with Chris Lundberg of Open Source for America 21 20:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Wikimedia Gets Another Half a Million 21 20:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Does to Windows Mobile What It's Already Doing to Windows: Making It Almost Worthless 21 20:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft's Collusion Partner Moves on with GNU/Linux 21 20:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Core People from OLPC Debunk the Myths That Sugar/Linux Was Ever the Problem 21 20:51
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft + IE + Hotmail = Security Hazard 21 20:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] MSFT EPIC FAIL: IE + Hotmail = Security Hazard 21 21:06
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Nice new bug :) If your system can play ogv, watch the video attached :)Aug 21 21:25
schestowitzGood show overall: 21 21:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Instant-message psychotherapy helps health care budgets 21 21:34
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schestowitzThis is interesting: 21 21:41
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Stella Artois and Salt & Vinegar Hula Hoops. Life doesn't get any better than this. (oh, and more labelling)Aug 21 21:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Apple’s Third Offense Against Linux-powered Palm Gadgets 21 22:09
DaemonFCinteresting race bating and militia movement recruiting videosAug 21 22:11
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DaemonFCanyone that quotes "Reliable exprerts" without mentioning who they are is not to be trustedAug 21 22:13
DaemonFCFox News uses that tactic all the time to get out of their journalistic responsibilityAug 21 22:13
DaemonFCsame as "Some people say..."Aug 21 22:13
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] probably the most useful link ever #amazonwinAug 21 22:25
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*trmanco is playing quake liveAug 21 22:36
trmancoit already crashed trying to play it fullscreenAug 21 22:36
MinceRDaemonFC: wikipedia calls that tactic "weasel words"Aug 21 22:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Yahoo! Dives Right into Microsoft’s Anti-Google Agenda! 21 22:51
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schestowitzA journalist has just asked for my opinion on MoonlightAug 21 23:27
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