IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 29th, 2009

-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why SUSE Engineers Should Abandon Novell and Start Their Own Company 29 00:14
schestowitzEruaran: let's look :-)Aug 29 00:18
schestowitzSteven Musil has no history I can recallAug 29 00:18
schestowitzMinceR: pingAug 29 00:18
schestowitzWhat's that burning iphone video again?Aug 29 00:19
schestowitznm, found itAug 29 00:19
schestowitzI'll oggifyAug 29 00:19
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schestowitzOK, here's the video: 29 00:31
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schestowitzCan anyone confirm the ogg above works (embedded)?Aug 29 00:52
schestowitzMy cache for this ogg is 'poisoned', so it's broken on my endAug 29 00:52
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DaemonFCnow I have a "Melissa Mendoza" from Comcast following my blogAug 29 01:06
DaemonFC 29 01:06
DaemonFC"I could never have imagined a company that could make customers crawl over razor wire and broken glass just to make them pay twice what the service was worth. Bravo!"Aug 29 01:11
DaemonFChow's that?Aug 29 01:11
schestowitzMust be tortureAug 29 01:12
schestowitz:-)Aug 29 01:12
DaemonFCoh I hate those peopleAug 29 01:12
DaemonFCIt was about to make my head explode the other day when I was trying to download a DVD image and my service was going up and downAug 29 01:13
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DaemonFCschestowitz: Wine finally did something about SecuROMAug 29 01:14
DaemonFCit turns out that one patch fixed the hundreds of games that wouldn't install or needed a no-disc crack even if the SecuROM wasn't in the installerAug 29 01:15
DaemonFCfor now anyway, I guess, we'll see what the next SecuROM doesAug 29 01:16
DaemonFCAnd also, Opera 10 integrates properly into GNOME or KDE and will even find your IcedTea installation by itselfAug 29 01:18
DaemonFCfirst release that supports Linux equally to WindowsAug 29 01:19
DaemonFCI've always liked Opera on Windows or Mac OS, but the Linux version always just seemed like a third rate port. Up til now they were even using gcc 3.2  and QT 3 bindings to build it withAug 29 01:20
DaemonFCit got a nice performance boost on Linux just from using a modern compilerAug 29 01:21
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DaemonFC 29 01:27
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schestowitzVista 7 adverts, eh?Aug 29 01:38
DaemonFC?Aug 29 01:39
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) Detoxicated from Microsoft Influence 29 01:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Novell’s Channel Partner Blasts Novell 29 01:46
DaemonFCI liked how they showed up just as the final touches are being put on HTML 5 and suddenly want to "help"Aug 29 01:47
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schestowitzHelp themselvesAug 29 01:52
schestowitzMaybe they can recast JPEG 2000 as HD and HTML5 as XAMLAug 29 01:52
DaemonFCXAML basically went nowhereAug 29 01:53
DaemonFCI know they latched it onto Silverlight to try to save it but now it's just dying with Silverlight rather than by itselfAug 29 01:54
DaemonFCschestowitz: Microsoft web technologies have generally not been a runaway hitAug 29 01:55
DaemonFCthey even had Active Channels years before RSS was inventedAug 29 01:55
DaemonFCthat went nowhereAug 29 01:55
DaemonFCit easily could have, but nobody wanted to use itAug 29 01:56
DaemonFCNetscape also tried to come up with a proprietary RSS-like thing of their own called NetcasterAug 29 01:56
DaemonFCApple and Microsoft might as well be considered the same team as far as their W3C membership goesAug 29 01:58
DaemonFCMicrosoft: "We'll help you kill Ogg if you help us spread Silverlight"Aug 29 01:58
DaemonFCHulu is cozying up to Microsoft some moreAug 29 02:02
DaemonFCall the Bing commercials and now a Hulu application for Windows that you can control with your Media Center remoteAug 29 02:03
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twitteryou need to up the quality on your oggs use ffmpeg2theora -v 6 at leastAug 29 02:47
twitterthe guy with the pistol is a good shotAug 29 02:47
DaemonFCunfortunately, Theora 1.0 is not very useful for things like DVD rips unless you crank the bitrateAug 29 02:53
DaemonFC1.1 is looking a lot better thoughAug 29 02:53
DaemonFCTheora 1.0 is notorious for block artifactsAug 29 02:54
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DaemonFCjust from my own experimenting, Thusnelda (1.1) is roughly on par with DivX, not quite as good as h.264, but by no means a bad codecAug 29 02:56
DaemonFCat least Windows Media Video will be the worst quality again out of the bunchAug 29 02:56
DaemonFCI'm just not entirely sure why they would be in such a rush to declare a bad encoder a 1.0 release, GNU-sponsored projects are known for slow developmentAug 29 02:57
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schestowitzgnAug 29 02:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ODF Workshop in Brazil Reveals Big New Wins 29 02:59
DaemonFCit's almost like a running gag to see free software get up to 0.99 and stay there for yearsAug 29 02:59
DaemonFCoiaohm__:  You'll be horrified to see what Ubuntu has done with Pulseaudio in Karmic development branchAug 29 03:01
DaemonFCthey've got it so twisted that VLC can't even recognize my microphone anymoreAug 29 03:01
DaemonFCI was playing around with all the latest alpha/beta stuff, Mandriva 2010 beta was the closest to a working systemAug 29 03:03
DaemonFCbut kernel 2.6.31-rc 7 won't boot on my systemAug 29 03:03
DaemonFCI'm thinking it's some kind of conflict with Mandriva's init scriptsAug 29 03:04
DaemonFCthey really need to just give up and use Upstart if they're depending on Fedora to maintain their init scripts that anywayAug 29 03:04
DaemonFCcause Fedora 9 was the last version they were maintaining them for and it's end of life nowAug 29 03:05
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DaemonFCin fact I'm certain it's a bug in Mandriva's init scriptsAug 29 03:09
oiaohmDaemonFC: as long as pulseaudio still can be uninstalled I will not have a problem.Aug 29 03:09
DaemonFCbecause it never even initializes my keyboard, then hangs instead of starting XAug 29 03:09
oiaohmX11 version.Aug 29 03:09
oiaohmYes 2.6.31 has altered the lower down X11 interfaces.Aug 29 03:10
DaemonFCoiaohm: I'm developing an intense dislike of PulseaudioAug 29 03:10
DaemonFCfor a while, it looked like they may have nearly had it under controlAug 29 03:10
oiaohmI have had intense dislike since it started.Aug 29 03:10
DaemonFCand now it's exhibiting all kinds of problems againAug 29 03:10
oiaohmPulseaudio is a return to sound servers.Aug 29 03:10
oiaohmSomething we really did not need.Aug 29 03:10
DaemonFCEsound didn't fix the damned problemAug 29 03:10
oiaohmarts did not either.Aug 29 03:11
DaemonFCwhat makes them think writing something even more complicated will?Aug 29 03:11
oiaohmgstreamer is about the only major up sound system being worked on that I agree with.Aug 29 03:11
DaemonFCI almost prefer the problems that crop up when you're just using ALSA directlyAug 29 03:12
DaemonFCat least you know what to expectAug 29 03:12
oiaohmAlsa problems are predictiable.Aug 29 03:12
DaemonFCI dunno, I may try KubuntuAug 29 03:12
DaemonFCare they having any funny ideas about putting Pulseaudio in KDE?Aug 29 03:12
DaemonFCsome distros do thatAug 29 03:13
DaemonFCI think they're smoking crackAug 29 03:13
DaemonFCsound system issues vary depending on how your distribution feels like configuring things, so you get programs like VLC, which can autodetect damned near any capture device on Windows or MacAug 29 03:14
DaemonFCand you're left going down the line in Linux trying /dev/dsp, /dev/dsp1. /dev/audio, /dev/audio1......Aug 29 03:15
DaemonFCwhile in Windows it shows up "Logitech Webcam" "Logitech Webcam Microphone", "AverMedia M780 TV Tuner"Aug 29 03:15
DaemonFCThis "every resource as a file" methodology is a disease, and quite datedAug 29 03:16
DaemonFCand sometimes you end up with things like Pulseaudio which don't operate within the established system so that no device you try to capture will workAug 29 03:17
DaemonFCbecause Pulseaudio will be having a continuous lock on the deviceAug 29 03:18
DaemonFCand VLC does not support the way Pulseaudio is redirecting the streamAug 29 03:18
DaemonFCoiaohm: I'd really like to find whoever designed Pulseaudio and give them a piece of my mindAug 29 03:18
DaemonFCit is some crazy shitAug 29 03:18
DaemonFCAt least the Windows sound mixer can choose sane defaults, supports hotplugging, and if you *do* have to dictate a device to capture from or send to, it's labeled in English and the devices don't conflictAug 29 03:21
DaemonFCand the Windows mixer actually properly supports bypassing it should the need ariseAug 29 03:21
DaemonFCpasuspend does not always workAug 29 03:21
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twitterI hope Oracle does not sell Sun's hardware to HP, the same idiots that ruined Alpha ten years ago.Aug 29 04:25
twitterIt figures a company like Amway would have a goofy software patent. 29 04:28
oiaohmevery resource as a file.  Really applies to windows too DaemonFCAug 29 04:56
oiaohmExcept MS does every resource as a objectAug 29 04:57
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twitter"Singularity School" promotes business method and software patents in the name of charity.  Charity is neither exclusive nor greedy. 29 05:12
twitter->  Lest it all seem pie in the sky, he noted the team members are in the process of incorporating a company and applying for patents.Aug 29 05:12
twitterummm, yeah, that's got me convinced.  convinced that it's bullshit.Aug 29 05:13
twitter->   Tuition is $25,000Aug 29 05:14
DaemonFCoiaohm: There's some things about almost any OS that I really like and some that really piss me off and never seem to get fixedAug 29 05:35
DaemonFCI'm not really a fanboy so much as practicalAug 29 05:35
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DaemonFCI use my PC for a little bit of everything, so it never takes me long to find out which parts of an OS don't work wellAug 29 05:36
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DaemonFCpeople with one or two use cases will swear by Windows or LinuxAug 29 05:37
DaemonFCin the area of sound servers and sound mixing, the Linux people really screwed the poochAug 29 05:39
DaemonFCVLC on FreeBSD can figure out what devices are in my system, VLC on Windows and Mac can figure it out too, VLC on Linux becomes fill in the blanksAug 29 05:40
oiaohmchar device in user space will allow some of the sound redesignedAug 29 05:41
DaemonFCI think the real problem in Linux is that there are so many approaches to solve a problem that every distribution figures something like this out for itselfAug 29 05:42
DaemonFCand they all end up with different bugsAug 29 05:42
DaemonFCI really am not huge on ALSAAug 29 05:42
DaemonFCOSS can emulate ALSA anyway and it's what every other POSIX system is usingAug 29 05:44
oiaohmall sound devices are char devices.Aug 29 05:45
DaemonFCI've never ran into conflicts using OSSAug 29 05:45
oiaohmFuture will get interesting with cuse allowing char devices to be user space.Aug 29 05:45
DaemonFCthe way I see it, Pulseaudio seems to be a userspace service that is covering up a lot of ALSA shortcomingsAug 29 05:45
DaemonFCI would just totally ditch ALSA and go back to OSS if it were my callAug 29 05:46
oiaohmPulseaudio is a repeat.Aug 29 05:46
oiaohmPulseaudio wants to infect every platform including BSD.Aug 29 05:46
DaemonFCALSA is like a bad pancakeAug 29 05:46
DaemonFCPulseaudio turns that into a short stack of bad pancakesAug 29 05:47
oiaohmALSA could have done the sound mixing Pulseaudio does.Aug 29 05:47
DaemonFCand you have people that keep wanting to layer more bad pancakes in the form of Pulseaudio pluginsAug 29 05:47
DaemonFCit's really mind bogglingAug 29 05:47
oiaohmBasically we have 2 levels doing the same crap.Aug 29 05:47
oiaohmIe alsa and PulseaudioAug 29 05:47
oiaohmSo you have conflit hell.Aug 29 05:47
DaemonFCI'm pretty sure OSS does that alreadyAug 29 05:47
DaemonFCso why replace OSS when they did it right there the first time?Aug 29 05:48
oiaohmOSS and ALSA are both direct hardware layers.Aug 29 05:48
oiaohmALSA has real-time audio support.Aug 29 05:48
oiaohmSomething OSS lacked when ALSA was designed.Aug 29 05:48
DaemonFCso isntead of helping to fix OSS, they just built ALSA from scratch independently?Aug 29 05:49
DaemonFCsounds like a pretty backwards way to solve a problemAug 29 05:49
oiaohmOSS still cannot do short window real-time.Aug 29 05:49
oiaohmIts a api issue.Aug 29 05:49
DaemonFCcause FreeBSD seems to be humming right alongAug 29 05:49
DaemonFCwhile Linux/ALSA gives you a dozen different problemsAug 29 05:49
oiaohmLot of ALSA problems have come from stacking.Aug 29 05:50
DaemonFCideally I would think that they should put a mixer right into ALSAAug 29 05:50
oiaohmJack and Pulse trying to pretend to be ALSA devices.Aug 29 05:50
oiaohmThere is a mixer in ALSAAug 29 05:51
DaemonFCand forget about all this fancy stream redirecting crapAug 29 05:51
oiaohmdmixAug 29 05:51
oiaohmALSA can do fancy stream redirecting crap.Aug 29 05:51
oiaohmOnly feature pulse has that alsa does not is per application sound.Aug 29 05:51
oiaohmOnly reason AlSA does not have that is no one has bothered updating alsa mixer.Aug 29 05:51
DaemonFCthat's built right into the Windows MixerAug 29 05:51
DaemonFCI guess I don't see the point in duplicated effortAug 29 05:53
DaemonFCLinux developers must go buy a new car every time someone door dings the one they haveAug 29 05:53
DaemonFCthat seems to be the kind of thinking behind their sound system workAug 29 05:53
DaemonFCreally the only reason I was trying to get VLC to stream is because Flash is pretty much shot on LinuxAug 29 05:55
DaemonFCit's good enough for Youtube-like sites and that's about it, someone at developed a program that could stream to their service in conjunction with VLCAug 29 05:55
DaemonFCtells you what they think about the prospects of Flash improvingAug 29 05:56
oiaohmpulseaudio is not just targeted at Linux.Aug 29 05:57
oiaohmSome of the pulseaudio guys were trying to work out how to embed into windows.Aug 29 05:58
DaemonFCto hell with thatAug 29 05:58
DaemonFCthank god they can't slap that shit into Windows tooAug 29 05:59
oiaohmThe proto type redirect windows sound into pulseaudioAug 29 05:59
oiaohmSo stuffing windows the same way as linux.Aug 29 05:59
DaemonFCand the people over at FreeBSD haven't lost their damned minds eitherAug 29 05:59
oiaohmSound server guys threw history think sound servers are the cure.Aug 29 05:59
oiaohmFor all sound problems.Aug 29 05:59
DaemonFCoiaohm: The one in Windows seems to work alrightAug 29 06:00
DaemonFCI don't get glitching, cut outs, or conflictsAug 29 06:00
oiaohmWindows has a kernel level real-time mode that audio uses to avoid glitching.Aug 29 06:00
oiaohmReal-time branch required to be merged before a sound server stood a chance of working.Aug 29 06:01
DaemonFCwell, Linux has too many problems when you use the full set of real time patchesAug 29 06:01
oiaohmThe full set still has some hacks.Aug 29 06:02
DaemonFCand Torvalds seems to like to scare away the few people that even bother to work out the mangled spaghetti code that depends on kernel lockingAug 29 06:02
oiaohmfor real-time to merge everythign has to be correctly implemented.Aug 29 06:02
oiaohmEach Linux kernel has less kernel locking.Aug 29 06:02
oiaohmLocking issues have to be cured step by step.Aug 29 06:03
oiaohmIf you had been following Linux kernel development you would know the spaghetti of locks is disappearing.Aug 29 06:04
DaemonFCyeah, a lot of these problems have been caused by code that made sense 10 years ago when it was trying to solve a different set of problems, is how it seemsAug 29 06:04
oiaohmNoAug 29 06:04
oiaohmThe locking problems was caused by people not understanding what they were using when coding drivers.Aug 29 06:04
oiaohmIssue is when it wrong is very hard to fix and keep the house of cards standing.Aug 29 06:05
DaemonFCI laughed my ass off when SCO submitted a few files they accused Torvalds of stealingAug 29 06:05
DaemonFCand his rebuttalAug 29 06:05
oiaohmThe locking issue never really made sence.Aug 29 06:06
oiaohm1 lock for everything system wide.Aug 29 06:06
oiaohmIs kinda insane.Aug 29 06:06
DaemonFCit was to the effect of " this file is the obvious implementation.....and that file is so bad I'm almost ashamed to have written it way back then"Aug 29 06:06
oiaohmYep headaches come for rushed code development at times.Aug 29 06:07
DaemonFCI ran across an article that says that SCO is going back to court because on appeal, the court found that Novell doesn't own the rights to UNIXAug 29 06:08
oiaohmie that will do for now answer.Aug 29 06:08
DaemonFCis this ever going to end?Aug 29 06:08
DaemonFCSCO stock tripled after the ruling, though it's still only at like 25 cents a shareAug 29 06:08
oiaohmIssue court ruling still can say neither does SCO.Aug 29 06:08
oiaohmThe owner could be the opengroup.Aug 29 06:08
DaemonFCback when it was at 6 cents I was telling people that we should all chip in and buy SCOAug 29 06:09
DaemonFCrelease anything they may really have to the public domain and dissolve the companyAug 29 06:09
oiaohmAnd who is the opengroup.Aug 29 06:09
oiaohmThe group formed from the case over bsd copyright novel lost.Aug 29 06:10
DaemonFCthis is too funnyAug 29 06:10
DaemonFCit's like it's been sold to so many people that nobody even knows who really owns itAug 29 06:10
oiaohmIssue is bsd court case.Aug 29 06:11
oiaohmbsd vs novell case.Aug 29 06:11
DaemonFCit probably is the open group that owns itAug 29 06:11
DaemonFCI would hope so, because it's better than SCO or NovellAug 29 06:12
oiaohmIt was not sold there but the ruling impless opengroup owns it as settlement.Aug 29 06:12
oiaohmIf that is the case SCO will try creating a fraud case against Novell to save self.Aug 29 06:13
oiaohmEnd result could be SCO and Novell by by.Aug 29 06:13
DaemonFCif it was Novell, there wouldn't be anything stopping them from "claiming" the sole right to distribute Linux and filing lawsuitsAug 29 06:13
DaemonFCI wouldn't put it past them if they thought they could do itAug 29 06:13
DaemonFCSCO obviously thought that they could go to court and convince some idiot judge that they owned the rights to LinuxAug 29 06:14
DaemonFCthey were obviously in financial trouble and trying to rough people up for "patent licenses" on something they didn't actually own was probably the only way to get any money coming inAug 29 06:17
DaemonFCUnixware and OpenLinux actually weren't bad, for their timeAug 29 06:18
DaemonFCthe releases of Unixware now are just to keep things like Apache and Firefox currentAug 29 06:18
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DaemonFCoiaohm: 29 06:23
DaemonFCI found that interestingAug 29 06:23
oiaohmSame thing is found inside solarias and freebsd DaemonFCAug 29 06:47
DaemonFCyeah, but they don't use Linux kernel code in the FreeBSD LinuxulatorAug 29 06:54
DaemonFCSolaris just lets you install a miniature RHELAug 29 06:55
DaemonFCCentOS works tooAug 29 06:55
oiaohmI have had debian on a Solaris before.Aug 29 06:55
oiaohmIt will be nice once cgroup are complete enough that Linux can copy the solarias way for running solarias and bsd.Aug 29 06:56
oiaohmvga arbitor for Linux appears to be on line for 2.6.32Aug 29 07:07
zoobab01:win -Aug 29 08:08
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Diablo-D3 29 08:39
oiaohmOrcale normally does not hide what they are interested in doing.Aug 29 08:42
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oiaohm  << Another MS profit line bites  the dustAug 29 09:20
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schestowitzHeyAug 29 09:44
oiaohmHi schestowitzAug 29 09:45
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schestowitzHey, oiaohm Aug 29 10:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Patents Roundup: Tuxera Came to Microsoft, TiVo Misbehaves, Updates on Facebook and Amazon 29 10:45
oiaohmTax to use file system is annoying.Aug 29 10:48
ziggyfishtesting out Windows 7 (according to the system monitor, it's 100.5 percent idling )Aug 29 11:12
Diablo-D3lolAug 29 11:12
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ziggyfishI love how after 20 years of windows, they still have autoexec.bat (has been in MicrosoftAug 29 11:21
ziggyfish*'s OS's since DOS)Aug 29 11:21
oiaohmIts not functaion part of boot process ziggyfishAug 29 11:22
ziggyfishand config.sysAug 29 11:22
oiaohmLeft overs for application compad.Aug 29 11:23
ziggyfishAFAIK DOS applications can't run in Windows XP let alone Windows 7, although can run though thirdparty emulationAug 29 11:25
oiaohmParticular windows applications have dos installers.Aug 29 11:26
oiaohmThat do work on XP ziggyfishAug 29 11:26
ziggyfishtrueAug 29 11:26
oiaohmWindows 7 I have not tested it for dos compadiblity.  Mostly moved to emulated xp.Aug 29 11:27
Diablo-D3ziggyfish: dos applications can "run" in xpAug 29 11:28
Diablo-D3just not in the way you're hopingAug 29 11:29
Diablo-D3oiaohm: btw, you may be thinking of cli win32 exes, they're not the same thingAug 29 11:29
oiaohmI am not thinking of cli win32Aug 29 11:30
oiaohmSome old games have warped installers Diablo-D3Aug 29 11:30
Diablo-D3some old games dont work on XP :<Aug 29 11:31
Diablo-D3actually, a lot of old games dont :<Aug 29 11:31
oiaohmThere are some that still do.Aug 29 11:31
oiaohmand some of them have dos installers.Aug 29 11:32
ziggyfishjust find it interesting that there is still does elements in Windows 20 Years laterAug 29 11:32
oiaohmI know from doing support with wine and having people complain they would not install under wine due to its dos layer being too poor.Aug 29 11:32
oiaohmThings don't change fast.Aug 29 11:33
ziggyfishtrue. but AFAIK, NT was not meant to be dos based. But their is still elements of dos in the NT kernel.Aug 29 11:35
oiaohmdos emulation.Aug 29 11:35
oiaohmNot that great of dos emulation.Aug 29 11:36
Diablo-D3oiaohm: wine should just start swiping dosemu code or somethingAug 29 11:48
oiaohmCodebase not compadible Diablo-D3Aug 29 11:48
oiaohmwindows dos applications have to do windows calls at times to work correctlyAug 29 11:49
Diablo-D3fff wtfAug 29 11:49
oiaohmlfn dosemu has.Aug 29 11:49
oiaohmBut there are a few other windows only int calls.Aug 29 11:49
oiaohm,crime-expert-backs-calls-for-licence-to-compute.aspx  << Ok don't know if this is good or bad.Aug 29 11:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft and Its Followers Compare Free Software to Terrorism 29 11:50
schestowitz<oiaohm> Tax to use file system is annoying.Aug 29 11:51
schestowitzIndeedAug 29 11:51
schestowitzMany people don't understand whyAug 29 11:51
schestowitzExplain to them that when someone give them a USB key, then they can't open the fileAug 29 11:52
schestowitzThey need to go to Microsoft and buy software/software patentsAug 29 11:52
schestowitzSD card fora shot themselves in the footAug 29 11:52
schestowitzLetting Microsoft collect money from hardware that's soldAug 29 11:52
schestowitzSame for many devices that use FAT and maybe NTFS.Aug 29 11:52
schestowitzTime to bury those FSsAug 29 11:52
oiaohmThere is not that much patent life left in NTFS.Aug 29 11:53
schestowitz 29 11:53
schestowitzRead the above. Aug 29 11:53
schestowitzI had paid Microsoft employees ("TEs" or in plain terms "AstroTurfers") writing smears about me where they try to make a comparison between me and Unabomber.Aug 29 11:53
oiaohmexfat the new one MS wants to make money from.Aug 29 11:53
schestowitzShame on themAug 29 11:53
schestowitzWHo can handle such patent abuseAug 29 11:53
schestowitzMicrosoft has a lot of propaganda going for RANDAug 29 11:53
schestowitzEven in EuropeAug 29 11:53
schestowitzIDC and BSA helps them with this propagandaAug 29 11:54
oiaohmAs long as windows is a dominate OS we will have problems.Aug 29 11:54
oiaohmWhen windows ceases to be a dominate OS world will change.Aug 29 11:54
schestowitzHow to delete flash tracking cookies on Linux < >Aug 29 12:00
schestowitzoiaohm: sure, help the cause. We need a free marketAug 29 12:02
schestowitz 29 12:04
schestowitzReal-Time Search Engine Attracts $7 Million Funding < >Aug 29 12:05
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MinceRschestowitz: pong :)Aug 29 12:27
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oiaohm  Just when I think i have seen all the open source anti-virus engines out there I find another one.Aug 29 13:00
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schestowitzAntibiotics for Windows... ask at your pharmacist now..Aug 29 13:12
MinceR"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."Aug 29 13:15
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Diablo-D3schestowitz: the really funny part is we could use UDF for SD cardsAug 29 13:32
schestowitzbrbAug 29 13:33
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 29 13:35:54 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovellAug 29 13:35
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Aug 29 13:35
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Fri Jun 12 18:24:05 2009Aug 29 13:35
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelAug 29 13:35
*#boycottnovell :[freenode-info] why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. 29 13:35
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] /me is going to get his hair cutAug 29 13:36
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oiaohm just another site travelled on an channel to silent.Aug 29 14:14
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schestowitzwhat do you mean?Aug 29 14:15
oiaohm2 hours and nothing was talked about.Aug 29 14:16
oiaohmOk I just stuffed my english up bad sorry schestowitz.Aug 29 14:17
oiaohmLine should have gone : just another site I found.  And this channel is being silent so I felt like making some noise.Aug 29 14:18
schestowitzI like the music in this video: 29 14:24
schestowitzoiaohm: I'm almost done with SUSE newsAug 29 14:24
schestowitzOne last post..Aug 29 14:25
schestowitzNovell and Microsoft are dormantAug 29 14:25
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XarverDoes anyone like my banner? :P 29 14:35
MinceRwhite on pale yellow? not particularly readable :>Aug 29 14:35
Xarverthat's not yellow o.oAug 29 14:36
MinceRwhat is it, then?Aug 29 14:36
Xarverthat's grayAug 29 14:36
Xarverunless your comp is messed upAug 29 14:36
MinceRdoesn't look gray at all in iceweasel 3.0.6Aug 29 14:36
Xarvero.oAug 29 14:36
MinceRkonqueror thinks it's light grayAug 29 14:36
MinceRstill not quite readable :)Aug 29 14:36
Xarver:PAug 29 14:36
MinceRoh, waitAug 29 14:37
MinceRmy display is badAug 29 14:37
Xarver:PAug 29 14:37
MinceRiceweasel shows it as gray on the laptop's panelAug 29 14:37
MinceRand pale yellow on the external panelAug 29 14:37
Xarverwell do you at least like the text?Aug 29 14:37
MinceRit isn't badAug 29 14:37
XarverI was thinking of the border darkerAug 29 14:37
oiaohmWhat are you going for the impossable to read on slightly dirty screens XarverAug 29 14:37
MinceRthough i prefer "Free Software" :>Aug 29 14:37
oiaohmMy LCD is over due for a clean.Aug 29 14:38
Xarver:PAug 29 14:38
XarverThen clean itAug 29 14:38
Xarver>.>Aug 29 14:38
MinceRmine are clean, but they're calibrated slightly differently by default, i guessAug 29 14:38
oiaohmContrast is that close with the dirt is only just readable.Aug 29 14:38
XarverI'm going to make the border darker, it'll look better, hold onAug 29 14:38
MinceRand color correction can't be setup per display :)Aug 29 14:39
oiaohmWhen I say over due for a clean its over due got this screen 3 years ago and it has not been cleaned once.Aug 29 14:40
ThistleWebdust won't earn money like regular antiques you know, antique dealers have to handle stuff to evaluate it, which is where your dust investment disappears on the tip of a finger. Although, 3 years is quite impressive if it could be carbon datedAug 29 14:41
oiaohmI am kinda seeing what comes first.Aug 29 14:43
ThistleWebunless it's proven to have dead hair follicles from some celeb who once looked over your shoulder and shook their head. You could sell it to fans who could use it to clone their lost heroAug 29 14:43
oiaohmScreen getting dirty enough that I have to clean it.Aug 29 14:43
oiaohmOr the screen dies first.Aug 29 14:43
oiaohmSo removing my need to clean it.Aug 29 14:43
XarverHow about this oiaohm, ThistleWeb, MinceR? 29 14:50
MinceRit's readableAug 29 14:50
MinceRthat's a great improvement ;)Aug 29 14:50
XarverLike it? :3Aug 29 14:50
MinceRit's difficult to tell on its ownAug 29 14:51
MinceRis it intended to be part of a webpage?Aug 29 14:51
Xarverit could beAug 29 14:51
XarverI'm sharpening up my skills with GIMPAug 29 14:51
ThistleWebthat's what I was gonna say, on it's own it's non-descriptAug 29 14:51
ThistleWebXarver: you tried the tutorial screencasts?Aug 29 14:51
XarvernoAug 29 14:52
Xarverbut I've seen someAug 29 14:52
ThistleWebI get "meet the gimp" and "screencasters"Aug 29 14:52
oiaohmI would have to see it use to site but as a single item it is nice XarverAug 29 14:52
ThistleWebmeet the gimp is onto like ep 114 now I thinkAug 29 14:52
XarverI made this with no tutorial guide ^.^Aug 29 14:52
ThistleWebeach episode is a tutorial screencastAug 29 14:52
XarverAhAug 29 14:53
ThistleWebon the gimpAug 29 14:53
ThistleWebscreencasters is the same idea, but on inkscapeAug 29 14:53
Xarver:PAug 29 14:53
ThistleWebit's on like ep 95 nowAug 29 14:53
Xarverdo you know how to create the wavy things in the backgroundAug 29 14:53
ThistleWeball free, with a podcast / rss agregatorAug 29 14:53
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ThistleWebmeetthegimp.orgAug 29 14:54
ThistleWebscreencasters.heathenx.orgAug 29 14:54
XarverThistleWeb: 29 14:55
ThistleWebmeet the gimp is done by a german teacher in his spare time who speaks very good englishAug 29 14:55
XarvercoolAug 29 14:55
Xarverthat's kind of what I want, but without the microsoft. I was just trying to find an exampleAug 29 14:55
ThistleWebfor creating stuff from scratch, inkscape may be better suitedAug 29 14:55
ThistleWebgimp is more for editing photosAug 29 14:55
Xarvernot reallyAug 29 14:56
Xarverinkscape is vectorAug 29 14:56
ThistleWebcorrectAug 29 14:57
ThistleWebgimp is rasterAug 29 14:57
Xarveryes.Aug 29 14:57
ThistleWebif you're working with existing photos to manipulate and change them, gimp is better suitedAug 29 14:58
ThistleWebif your creating something from scratch, specially if it's a logo, inkscape is the better betAug 29 14:58
Xarver:PAug 29 14:59
ThistleWebbut the choice is yours, if you prefer one tool over the other, that's coolAug 29 14:59
ThistleWebinkscape can work well with photos' tooAug 29 15:00
ThistleWebthat's just a sorta "extra" function, rather than a main feature thoughAug 29 15:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] back :DAug 29 15:00
ThistleWebif I was trying to get something like that MS image, I'd explore inkscapeAug 29 15:01
Xarver:PAug 29 15:01
ThistleWebchances are it'll be much easier, more flexable and get better results than anything elseAug 29 15:01
ThistleWebsame with the open source logo you showed usAug 29 15:02
ThistleWebvector works wonders for scaling tooAug 29 15:02
ThistleWebwhere you can take it from a tiny few pixels right up to billboard size and it's still cyrstal clear, no pixelationAug 29 15:03
XarvertrueAug 29 15:04
ThistleWebI've only started playing with inkscape for stuff for my blogAug 29 15:05
XarverThistleWeb: I actually meant how windows vista for example (BLEH) has those kind of backgroundsAug 29 15:06
Xarverthe wavy thingAug 29 15:06
ThistleWebthere are plenty of pattern sites you could look thoughAug 29 15:06
ThistleWebget something close, then modify itAug 29 15:06
XarverokAug 29 15:06
ThistleWebobviously watch for lincencing conditionsAug 29 15:07
ThistleWeblook for CC stuffAug 29 15:07
XarverFatal error: Call to undefined function moved_topic() in /home/gimptalk/public_html/forum/viewtopic_seo.php on line 72Aug 29 15:08
Xarver:(Aug 29 15:08
ThistleWeb  <<my only attemtp so far to play with inkscapeAug 29 15:09
ThistleWebI just put it up nowAug 29 15:09
Xarverit's Novell :)Aug 29 15:09
ThistleWebtheres no blog posts yet, I'm still planning stuff outAug 29 15:09
ThistleWeblolAug 29 15:09
ThistleWebI have a whole series about storytelling, and a whole subseries planned for the difference in the mediumsAug 29 15:10
Xarver:PAug 29 15:10
ThistleWebthat was inkscape with one wallpaper imageAug 29 15:10
ThistleWeba few layersAug 29 15:11
ThistleWeband a few gradientsAug 29 15:12
MinceRif the kind of pattern you're looking for is popular enough, you might even find a tutorial that explains how to do it :)Aug 29 15:12
ThistleWebyeah, there are plenty of tutorials on gimp, inkscape etc and millions on photoshop which can easily be adaptedAug 29 15:13
ThistleWebthose types of waves are a dime-a-dozen on default wallpapers in some distrosAug 29 15:13
Xarver:PAug 29 15:15
ThistleWebI've gotten to the point where I hardly notice the default wallpapers these days, it's always the first thing to be changed to an image of my ownAug 29 15:16
ThistleWebXarver: have you installed grokingthegimp?Aug 29 15:16
XarvernoAug 29 15:16
ThistleWebit's a full gimp guide available in most reposAug 29 15:16
ThistleWeban html manualAug 29 15:17
XarverohAug 29 15:17
ThistleWebit's also free online in either html and pdf form (I think)Aug 29 15:17
schestowitzTSMC lands Fujitsu deal < >Aug 29 15:19
XarverI want to make this :3 29 15:19
Xarver 29 15:20
MinceRrandom noise+a layer with a lightness transition+motion blur+a brush that puts random discs and at the end +a layer with a color transition? :)Aug 29 15:22
schestowitzDisproportional punishment IMHO. (Accused TJX hacker faces 15 to 20)Aug 29 15:22
MinceRperhaps even some non-motion blur to the noise before motion blurAug 29 15:22
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MinceRoh, and also the noise would need to be magnified first, i guessAug 29 15:23
twittersinograms, perhaps 29 15:24
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MinceRthere are some interesting sinograms thereAug 29 15:26
MinceR 29 15:26
twitterexcept for 2nd hand promotion, apple and google bashing and slimy government and oem manipulation, there's not much out of them -> schestowitz: Novell and Microsoft are dormantAug 29 15:27
schestowitzThere's anti-Google nowAug 29 15:27
schestowitzNeeds a post soonAug 29 15:27
schestowitzBut other sites beat many to it... though it's the same thing BN has been showing for months..Aug 29 15:28
schestowitzLawMedia scumAug 29 15:28
schestowitzHTML defeatism: 29 15:29
twitterone vet says "wipe and reload" the other says "buy a new computer" what should I do? -> schestowitz: Antibiotics for Windows... ask at your pharmacist now.Aug 29 15:30
twitterYou have been way out in front of "traditional" media, Roy.Aug 29 15:31
twitterthe doctor says, "get gnu/linux"Aug 29 15:31
schestowitzVenezuela to ban violent videogames? < >Aug 29 15:35
twitterYou say, "many Free software supporters are atheists," but this is a bad idea.  Faith and freedom are complementary and people have been made to fear for both.Aug 29 15:47
twitterCold war rhetoric has Communists as godless idolaters who misplaced their faith in the state's and it's dishonest promises of equality and material wealth.  People were taught that Communists would take away their religious freedom, and generally they did.Aug 29 15:47
twitterThe pattern of thought is still strong enough that people are afraid of atheists, without understanding they hypocritically infringe on the atheists right to believe what they wish.Aug 29 15:48
twitterWhen M$ smears free software as "Communism," they pull all of that cold war propaganda in with them.Aug 29 15:50
twitterOf course, it's silly.  Non free software is the centrally controlled, privacy and freedom violating monstrosity that Soviet planners may have dreamed of.Aug 29 15:51
twitterFree Software represents free press, individual self help and a real free market.Aug 29 15:52
schestowitzI was mostly responding to the use of the word "religious"Aug 29 15:53
schestowitzMicrosoft compares FOSS to a religious cult, esp. extreme onesAug 29 15:53
twitterYour previous articles that shows how cult like M$ is are better responses.Aug 29 15:54
twitterM$ employees are immoral and blindly dedicated to their company.Aug 29 15:55
twitterreligious terms, like "jihad" and "evangelism" are regularly used in their emails and literatureAug 29 15:55
schestowitzAtheism BTW is only frowned upon in the US (among the western world)Aug 29 15:55
schestowitzAbout 44% in the UK are atheists/gnosticAug 29 15:56
schestowitzAnd the UK is still one of the /most/ religiousAug 29 15:56
schestowitzCOmpre that to Sweden where it's like 88%Aug 29 15:56
schestowitzIn the US more like 10%Aug 29 15:56
twitterWell, the US and the UK represent a tiny minority of the world's population.Aug 29 15:56
schestowitzSo it depends on whose propaganda is chosenAug 29 15:56
twitterYou don't need to go there.Aug 29 15:57
schestowitzOK, but I should not avoid it, eitherAug 29 15:57
twitterIf it's counter productive anywhere and you can get better results directly, as you have in the past, it's better to be direct.Aug 29 15:57
schestowitzLinux and GNU are scienceAug 29 15:57
schestowitzIt's truth versus delusionAug 29 15:58
schestowitzSo I'd rather promote the idea of engineering versus superstition, such as thew evangelical company, MicrosoftAug 29 15:58
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twitterM$ will pretend to represent science too.Aug 29 15:58
schestowitz"Vendor recommends Windows" = "God created the Earth in seven days"Aug 29 15:59
twitterbut they will also pretend to give people freedom of faithAug 29 15:59
twitterit is foolish to insult people when you don't have to.Aug 29 15:59
twitter"Vendor recommends Windows" is a dishonest thing.  You have shown directly how it's a lie and the reasons vendors do it.Aug 29 16:00
schestowitztwitter: no, s/science/Scientology/Aug 29 16:01
Xarverschestowitz: no need to put religion in this.Aug 29 16:01
XarverSaying science is linux and windows is religion shouldn't be nessicary.Aug 29 16:02
twitterright and it's evil of M$ to use religion in their promotion.Aug 29 16:02
XarverIt doesn't mean Linux is science. >.>Aug 29 16:03
cubezzzif Microsoft represents religion then it's satanism :)Aug 29 16:03
twitterGNU/Linux is science.  It is repeatable and provable.Aug 29 16:03
Xarvercubezzz: Agreed.Aug 29 16:03
Xarvertwitter: No need to put religion in this. People don't only believe in science here.Aug 29 16:03
schestowitzBut it represent attitude to applied ideasAug 29 16:04
neighborleecubezzz, no id say its more a right wing conservative agenda, instead of compassionate liberalism ;)Aug 29 16:04
schestowitzMicrosoft's approach goes somehting like this:Aug 29 16:04
twitterKeeping religion out is precisely my purpose.Aug 29 16:04
schestowitzBuild up followers (ecosystem)Aug 29 16:04
schestowitzBuy some productsAug 29 16:04
schestowitzSPread "evangelists" to market itAug 29 16:04
schestowitzIf it breaks, increase evangelismAug 29 16:04
schestowitzAttack criticsAug 29 16:05
XarverYes, but it's annoying how you are relating it to it, as I am you know, religious.Aug 29 16:05
schestowitzThat's not scienceAug 29 16:05
EruaranGNU/Linux did not start with 'science', it started with a conviction that software should be free just as mathematics is free.Aug 29 16:05
schestowitzIn science there's peer review and respect for idea based on EVIDENCEAug 29 16:05
schestowitzMicrosoft hates evidenceAug 29 16:05
Xarver*sigh*Aug 29 16:05
schestowitzSee their EULAAug 29 16:05
schestowitzThey forbif benchmarks!!Aug 29 16:05
schestowitz*forbidAug 29 16:05
schestowitzThat's not a company that's interested in engineering.Aug 29 16:05
twitterWindows and non free software is a centrally controlled mess.Aug 29 16:05
schestowitzJust fancy shmancy bribes of Vista 7 to part of their cultAug 29 16:06
XarverStill, religion is a heavy topic and relating to it will start an argument. ._.Aug 29 16:06
schestowitzPeople like Fried and McRackenAug 29 16:06
EruaranAnd when they spout on about how secure Windows is, I shall reply, "and I believe nicotine is not addictive".Aug 29 16:06
twitterOh yeah, that's slide #2 or so.  "It's not about the technology" the customer, etc, "It's about Microsoft"Aug 29 16:06
schestowitzXarver: agreedAug 29 16:06
schestowitzBut here's the thingAug 29 16:06
schestowitzIt's not us who say Microsoft is a religionAug 29 16:07
schestowitzIt's Microsoft that calls FOSS a "cult"Aug 29 16:07
Xarver?Aug 29 16:07
schestowitzSo we dismiss the allegations by showing hypocrisyAug 29 16:07
ThistleWebschestowitz: I'm sure that's a typo, I don't think they meant "cuLt"Aug 29 16:07
ThistleWebmethinks there maybe an "n" in there somewhereAug 29 16:08
Xarver:PAug 29 16:08
*Xarver was just thinking that...Aug 29 16:08
twitterM$ routinely calls free software advocates, "zealots" "fundamentalists" and other things.Aug 29 16:08
Xarver:OAug 29 16:08
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schestowitzThistleWeb: yes, culnAug 29 16:08
twitterThis shows their hatred of faith.Aug 29 16:08
ThistleWeblolAug 29 16:08
cubezzzMicrosoft are the biggest zealots by farAug 29 16:09
cubezzzever see Ballmer on stage?Aug 29 16:09
EruaranI wonder what will happen to Zimbra nowAug 29 16:09
twitterM$ employees compromise their morals.Aug 29 16:09
cubezzzit's scary :)Aug 29 16:09
twitterThey harm their neighbors for the benefit of their company.Aug 29 16:09
ThistleWebEruaran: that occurred to me too with MS cosying up to YahooAug 29 16:10
schestowitz12 Words You Can Never Say in the Office < >Aug 29 16:10
twitterCunt on the list?Aug 29 16:10
ThistleWebMS won't like the idea of competition to Exchange, one of their key lockin productsAug 29 16:10
ThistleWebcunt is one of the stronger swear words which usually causes offenseAug 29 16:11
ThistleWebeven in a liberal workplace, it's one of the no-no wordsAug 29 16:11
cubezzzsome of my friends use Microsoft and I'm quoting here " I can have a job"Aug 29 16:11
schestowitztwitter: don't know. Saw it in the news a minute agoAug 29 16:11
schestowitzYahoo was supposed to be with GoogleAug 29 16:11
EruaranThey may destroy Zimbra and they may destroy VMware, but their focus on companies betrays their weakness. They can take out a few companies, but they cannot stem the rising tide.Aug 29 16:11
schestowitzPeople forgot thatAug 29 16:11
schestowitzBut Microsoft and LawMedia (and other corrupt people) shot it downAug 29 16:11
schestowitzIt's not federal crime to do thisAug 29 16:12
schestowitzApparently that's just how DC is runAug 29 16:12
schestowitzMicrosoft's secret 'screw Google' meetings in D.C. 29 16:12
ThistleWebI dunno what the yahoo licence allows or does not allow, so I don't know how easily Zimbra could fork if it was knifed by the yahoo / MS dealAug 29 16:12
schestowitzGoog The Underdog? 29 16:12
EruaranAs their power wanes, so the vultures will gather.Aug 29 16:12
schestowitzBing Double Cashback Promotion Discontinued 29 16:13
EruaranMicrosoft will eventually find themselves in court facing charges over their campaign of extortion against companies that use Linux.Aug 29 16:13
schestowitzThistleWeb: the issue is differentAug 29 16:13
schestowitzHow people people will /chose/ Zimbra/ now?Aug 29 16:13
schestowitzIt's seen as riskyAug 29 16:13
EruaranAnd when they do, their "partners" wont be there to help them.Aug 29 16:13
schestowitzZombira (Yahoo) owna ZimbraAug 29 16:13
EruaranyesAug 29 16:14
ThistleWebare people aware that yahoo own zimbra though?Aug 29 16:14
EruaranI certainly wouldn't advise anyone to move to Zimbra now. Its future is uncertain.Aug 29 16:14
ThistleWebor will most assume it;s an independant FOSS projectAug 29 16:14
ThistleWebuncertanty does play into MS hands though, I agree on that score, which is part of what they planned forAug 29 16:16
schestowitzWhat does Yahoo do these days anyway (other than close parts of the business)?Aug 29 16:16
schestowitzThey have just bought some Arabic portal that will be bonging onAug 29 16:16
ThistleWebI wonder if the time of the portal homepage is pastAug 29 16:17
ThistleWebwho uses a portal site like MSN, AOL or YahooAug 29 16:17
schestowitzThe tactics of these rogue climate elements must not succeed < >Aug 29 16:17
ThistleWebmany peeps (not me) have a simple google search page as their home page and jump from thereAug 29 16:17
ThistleWebyahoo seem to be like the other 2, MSN and AOL as "the past"Aug 29 16:18
schestowitzModel arrested for posing nude at New York museum < >Aug 29 16:18
ThistleWebI'm loving the middle click in firefoxAug 29 16:19
schestowitzPortals like Yahoo must be losing to social networkingAug 29 16:19
schestowitzAnd then there's blogging, microblogging, facebook, etc.Aug 29 16:19
ThistleWebI used to miss PTTL since it's not updated to ff3.5 yet, only to be told about copying a link, opening a new tab and middle clicking, which pastes it into the URL bar and goes to the siteAug 29 16:20
schestowitz"Madonna was booed by thousands of fans at a concert in Romania after condemning discrimination against Gypsies." Watch the photoAug 29 16:20
ThistleWebyeah, exactly, other sites have specialised and taken their crownAug 29 16:20
ThistleWebthe impression I got of most portal sites was that they wanted it as a walled garden, where you did everything with them, and the screen was just full of clutterAug 29 16:21
ThistleWeblinks, icons, blinky, flashy things, thats not even mentioning the adverts all trying to vie for attentionAug 29 16:22
cubezzzI don't really like the yahoo stuffAug 29 16:22
schestowitzI dropped Yahoo!Aug 29 16:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] The last "Downfall" captioning 29 16:22
ThistleWebthat's where Google really nailed it as far as I'm concerned, a simple search pageAug 29 16:22
schestowitzI view it as the next CorelAug 29 16:22
cubezzzI'll run what I like on my own serverAug 29 16:22
schestowitzThey already promote Microsoft softwareAug 29 16:23
schestowitzThey got captured from the insideAug 29 16:23
schestowitzWhat was the inner shell (FOSS people) got out or was pushed outAug 29 16:23
schestowitzMicrosoft is a dangerous political movement and should be treated as suchAug 29 16:23
schestowitzThe change will not come from the US become being a _ political movement_ means that they are in change thereAug 29 16:24
schestowitzThey also took over some other countries, but not to the same degreeAug 29 16:24
schestowitzWatch the BBC and how Microsoft took over, partly/Aug 29 16:24
schestowitzMary Jo Foley's blog got useless. She has nothing to say because she doesn't want to criticise Microsoft and there are no new products, either. Maybe worth deleting from the feeds soon.. same with the Bong-sponsored Tech Flash.... too much fluff, no signal anymore.Aug 29 16:26
cubezzzI'd rather here the Linux/FOSS news really :)Aug 29 16:29
cubezzzhear evenAug 29 16:29
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schestowitz 29 16:43
schestowitzcubezzz: I read those other blog to keep track of the manipulation from Microsoft. Most of this is skipworthy, but sometimes the Microsoftfolk picks up something about an employee moving to a FOSS companyAug 29 16:43
schestowitz AdMob Announces Agreement to Acquire AdWhirl < >. Why??Aug 29 16:44
schestowitzWho?Aug 29 16:44
DaemonFCI think the post office lost my shipment from NeweggAug 29 16:46
schestowitzSOme people put business before ethics. it doesn't have to be that wayAug 29 16:46
DaemonFChmmm, the rep told me they accidentally sent it to Decatur, Indiana because someone put it in the wrong route :PAug 29 16:49
schestowitzReport: Steve Jobs concentrating on tablet < >Aug 29 16:49
DaemonFChow the hell do you get Decatur, Indiana 46733 when the package says "Huntington, Indiana 46750"?Aug 29 16:50
DaemonFCso much for efficiencyAug 29 16:50
schestowitzOCRAug 29 16:50
DaemonFCschestowitz: Will it cost $3,000 and fit into an envelope?Aug 29 16:50
DaemonFCthe world has to knowAug 29 16:50
DaemonFCthey make some notoriously pointless crapAug 29 16:51
twitteryou should not do business with unethical people, they will screw you when they can.Aug 29 16:51
DaemonFCwho the hell buys an expensive tablet just for the banal day to day crap of sending email and opening documents?Aug 29 16:52
DaemonFCI can at least kind of understand the kind of person that would spend on a Mac Pro or somethingAug 29 16:53
ThistleWebschestowitz: I assume you've seen this >> 29 16:54
ThistleWeb  <<cleaner linkAug 29 16:54
schestowitzThistleWeb: yesAug 29 16:54
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schestowitz 29 17:01
schestowitz'The closest approximation in the Linux world is Xandros server, hairyfeet added, and "while it gets a lot of the way towards the Server+Exchange functionality, it isn't nearly as good at GPO as a Winserver is. And I haven't seen a 'Sharepoint killer' or an 'Outlook killer' yet come from the Linux world.""Aug 29 17:01
schestowitzThis Turfer againAug 29 17:01
schestowitzThe usual Microsoft promotion/Linux bashing from mr. 'hairyfeet"Aug 29 17:02
schestowitzbblAug 29 17:03
DaemonFCXandros? Oh pleaseAug 29 17:04
DaemonFCthey are a bad jokeAug 29 17:04
schestowitzThey pay MS taxAug 29 17:05
schestowitzThus the recommendation maybeAug 29 17:05
schestowitzbblAug 29 17:05
DaemonFCI also noticed those iMagicOS spammers* have reduced the price of their Linux-based Vista clone from $89 to $19.95 *I call them spammers because their "CEO" spams other distributions forums under false namesAug 29 17:05
ThistleWebthankfully the respectable distros haven't given in to the MS tax yetAug 29 17:07
DaemonFCit's because they know it's bogusAug 29 17:07
ThistleWebno serious linux user would use linspire, xandros or suseAug 29 17:07
DaemonFCand the few cases where MS actually showed that they held a patent, the next Linux kernel was patched to avoid itAug 29 17:08
DaemonFCso MS probably won't be doing that again soonAug 29 17:08
ThistleWebaside from the MS tax part, they're just not very good distrosAug 29 17:08
ThistleWebit's not as if MS bullied the cream of the crop is it?Aug 29 17:08
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DaemonFCThistleWeb: Xandros still uses some software based on stuff they bought from CalderaAug 29 17:08
DaemonFCbefore the SCO mergerAug 29 17:08
ThistleWebthey bullied the lil distros that peeps don't wantAug 29 17:09
DaemonFCI don't know why they would though, Dolphin or Konqueror are both better file managers than Caldera ExplorerAug 29 17:09
ThistleWebmy impression of Xandros, even before signing with MS, is that they were always just using Linux for their own aims, with no intention of being FOSS friendly except where they had to, to be GPL compliantAug 29 17:10
ThistleWeblinspire were aiming to be a linux for windows usersAug 29 17:11
ThistleWebwith some dubious ideasAug 29 17:11
ThistleWeband suse, you have to feel for opensuseAug 29 17:11
ThistleWeba kde distro bought, and told to switch to gnome by the new owners, who go and sign the kiss of death pact with MSAug 29 17:12
ThistleWebI'm glad to hear they're moving back to kdeAug 29 17:12
ThistleWebdistancing themselves from novell could be a good idea tooAug 29 17:13
ThistleWebwhen you rely on a large community, being a pariah does not help your projectAug 29 17:13
DaemonFCThistleWeb:  Linus Torvalds addressed the complaints of that natureAug 29 17:16
DaemonFChe said that open source software is all about one's own greedy ambitions and everything that anyone contributes is to "scratch their own itch"Aug 29 17:17
ThistleWebI've had another thought on the whole novell / MS dealAug 29 17:17
DaemonFChe's right, it would be stupid to get political and turn down perfectly good contributions jsut because you personally dislike the company they came fromAug 29 17:17
ThistleWebit was only a 5yr deal I think, which may or may not be renewedAug 29 17:18
DaemonFCit was renewed already wasn't it? Last yearAug 29 17:18
MinceR"perfectly good" contributions?Aug 29 17:18
ThistleWebwhat happens when the deal runs out, and MS decide to hike the price too high?Aug 29 17:18
DaemonFCwhen Microsoft went back and bought more Suse licensesAug 29 17:18
ThistleWebintentionally so that Novell cant payAug 29 17:18
ThistleWebknowing they're uisng MS patented "IP"Aug 29 17:19
ThistleWebbecause they helped get it in thereAug 29 17:19
MinceRalso, what happened to thinking about one's own future?Aug 29 17:19
DaemonFCMinceR: A lot of the Intel HDA audio work is being done by Suse employeesAug 29 17:19
DaemonFCabout half the work on ALSA tooAug 29 17:19
DaemonFCwhy don't you jsut go uninstall the sound system cause of that?Aug 29 17:19
ThistleWebnow even novell tech is no longer covered by a covenant not to sueAug 29 17:19
MinceRDaemonFC: a lot of the messages posted here come from people who disagree with youAug 29 17:19
ThistleWebalong with everything novell are trying to push into other distros like monoAug 29 17:19
DaemonFCyou'll only have about 90% of the system left that they've touched in some significant wayAug 29 17:19
MinceRDaemonFC: why don't you just leave because of that?Aug 29 17:19
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: explains why alsa is a fucking piece of shit, btwAug 29 17:20
MinceRit would be better if they didn't touch the system :>Aug 29 17:20
DaemonFCno it doesn'tAug 29 17:20
DaemonFCit explains why some of it worksAug 29 17:20
Diablo-D3not reallyAug 29 17:20
DaemonFCRed Hat and Novell are paying people to fix itAug 29 17:20
Diablo-D3the only way to fix it is ditch itAug 29 17:20
MinceRand use what?Aug 29 17:21
DaemonFCbetween Red Hat and Novell,. you have almsot 95% of the work being done on ALSA and sound driversAug 29 17:21
ThistleWebthey could either set the renewal price so high that it's not worth it, or leave novell with a hellava patent lawsuit to face, which may push them under, killing their part in FOSSAug 29 17:21
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: anyhow, you've been asked to leaveAug 29 17:21
Diablo-D3get the fuck outAug 29 17:21
MinceRDaemonFC: Red Hat is no m$ supplicantAug 29 17:21
DaemonFCand almost a 25% of the total kernel contributionsAug 29 17:21
ThistleWeblet's face it, MS were doing a LOT better financially when the deal first appearedAug 29 17:21
Diablo-D3ThistleWeb: so is DaemonFC's momAug 29 17:21
ThistleWebthe ecconomy has went to hell since thenAug 29 17:21
Diablo-D3ThistleWeb: she learned to quit giving it awayAug 29 17:21
DaemonFCLinus Torvalds isn't going to scare away the provider of 12% of Linux code just because of some political terrorists at the FSFAug 29 17:22
Diablo-D3"political terrorists"Aug 29 17:22
Diablo-D3bwahahahahahahAug 29 17:22
Diablo-D3oh wowAug 29 17:22
DaemonFCwhy don't they go back to bothering salespersons at Apple Stores?Aug 29 17:22
Diablo-D3you can't pay for troll material this goodAug 29 17:22
Diablo-D3oh wait, nm, Microsoft isAug 29 17:22
ThistleWebthe more MS heamorages money, the more they'll seek to make the difference up in other ways, like screwing more out of patent dealsAug 29 17:22
Diablo-D3I guess Bill Gates _can_ buy everythingAug 29 17:23
DaemonFCWhere did that campaign go off to anyway?Aug 29 17:23
MinceRDiablo-D3: this troll material isn't even goodAug 29 17:23
MinceRDiablo-D3: it's tired and transparentAug 29 17:23
DaemonFCthey were going to chain themselves to Mac Pro workstations til the store manager threatened to call mall security?Aug 29 17:23
MinceRDaemonFC: why don't you take some rest until the urge to troll goes away?Aug 29 17:24
Diablo-D3MinceR: I knowAug 29 17:24
Diablo-D3MinceR: its actually kind of sad, I troll more in the morning than DaemonFC does all weekAug 29 17:24
ThistleWebyeah you have to wonder why DaemonFC has no permanant ban hereAug 29 17:24
Diablo-D3and I've officially retired from it tooAug 29 17:24
Diablo-D3his troll-fu is weekAug 29 17:24
Diablo-D3er, weakAug 29 17:24
Diablo-D3my typing is weak :<Aug 29 17:24
DaemonFCevery once in a while MinceR gets an op and kicks me for not being sufficiently hateful of all his political enemiesAug 29 17:25
DaemonFC:PAug 29 17:25
ThistleWebanyone can have a bad mood, or get into an argument without meaning to, but his is pretty constantAug 29 17:25
Diablo-D3MinceR: you know wants amazing?Aug 29 17:25
Diablo-D3glassfish can run ruby appsAug 29 17:25
Diablo-D3er, RoR appsAug 29 17:25
MinceRDaemonFC: every once in a while schestowitz gets tired of your trolling and has me kickban youAug 29 17:25
Diablo-D3and it doesnt include rubyAug 29 17:26
Diablo-D3it uses that jruby shitAug 29 17:26
ThistleWebrunny shit?Aug 29 17:26
MinceRDiablo-D3: well, glassfish is some java-based stuff, i'd expect it to do that if at allAug 29 17:26
ThistleWeboh ruby shitAug 29 17:26
ThistleWebmy bad, read that wrongAug 29 17:26
MinceRThistleWeb: you know, that language that wanted to be python but couldn'tAug 29 17:26
Diablo-D3MinceR: glassfish is the new java ee server from sunAug 29 17:26
Diablo-D3its just amazing that Sun can out .NET .NET and probably didnt even realize .NET even existsAug 29 17:27
ThistleWebnever heard of glassfish, but RoR did intrigue me after hearing the floss weekly interviewAug 29 17:27
Diablo-D3ThistleWeb: RoR is largely fucking shitAug 29 17:27
Diablo-D3it takes a shitty functional language and combines it with good ideas, but tries to claim it invented said ideasAug 29 17:27
ThistleWebsit on the fence why don't youAug 29 17:28
Diablo-D3protip: RoR didn't invent IoC or even make it popularAug 29 17:28
ThistleWebI'm not interested in what it claims, but what it doesAug 29 17:28
Diablo-D3what it does is the same as any other language, but tries to make it "hip" and "cool" by using a language inferior to lispAug 29 17:28
DaemonFCOSX86 is going to be in a world of hurt pretty soonAug 29 17:29
Diablo-D3I can honestly say there are lisp dialects out there easier to learn and program in than rubyAug 29 17:29
DaemonFCApple is including a malware scanner (quietly) in Snow LeopardAug 29 17:29
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Diablo-D3DaemonFC: and it is aware of all three malwaresAug 29 17:29
MinceRnot quietly enoughAug 29 17:29
Diablo-D3the best part is, the malware scanner isnt even for snow leopardAug 29 17:30
MinceRonly the crApple fanboys don't realize that osx is vulnerable to malwareAug 29 17:30
DaemonFCit got me thinking that eventually this Snow Leopard scanner will become hundreds of signatures, and possibly remove OSX86 bootloaders tooAug 29 17:30
ThistleWebmy impression is that it defines a lot of defaults so you dont have to, which also helps syncronise stuff. All I'm going on is that interview though. This seems great for most peeps and most uses, but I can imagine the limits would be frustrating when you need to step beyond themAug 29 17:30
Diablo-D3its so you dont spread the malware to older macs that dont have the newest security updatesAug 29 17:30
DaemonFCkind of like Windows Defender removes modified GRUB bootloaders that have the activation cracks in themAug 29 17:30
Diablo-D3you know, like G3s still running 10.2Aug 29 17:30
MinceReven G3s could use an upgrade to gnu/linuxAug 29 17:30
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: but who the fuck runs windows on real hardware?Aug 29 17:30
Diablo-D3thats asking for troubleAug 29 17:31
MinceRDiablo-D3: gamersAug 29 17:31
Diablo-D3MinceR: not really, noAug 29 17:31
DaemonFCputting something in the Master Boot Record designed to crack the OS is asking for itAug 29 17:31
DaemonFCdoesn't stop anyone from doing it I supposeAug 29 17:31
Diablo-D3MinceR: I'd use xen desktop or virtualbox for thatAug 29 17:31
MinceRthough 3d-enabled virtualization existsAug 29 17:31
ThistleWebDiablo-D3: I'd imagine the percentage would be higher than those running windows on imaginary hardwareAug 29 17:31
MinceRi don't know how well it works nowAug 29 17:31
Diablo-D3MinceR: surprisingly wellAug 29 17:31
MinceRDiablo-D3: has anyone benchmarked them?Aug 29 17:31
Diablo-D3I haveAug 29 17:31
MinceRwhat are the results?Aug 29 17:31
Diablo-D3its a tad slow in some placesAug 29 17:31
Diablo-D3though the real problem is hl2 still doesnt work entirely right in virtualboxAug 29 17:32
Diablo-D3how the fuck am I supposed to get my team fortress on!Aug 29 17:32
DaemonFCso far I've only ran into one DRM system in Windows 7, that was easily avoided by using other media center softwareAug 29 17:32
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: except for the DRM that allows you to boot w7Aug 29 17:32
MinceRDiablo-D3: with quake, of courseAug 29 17:32
Diablo-D3MinceR: tf2, dorkAug 29 17:33
DaemonFCI suppose it'll be like their browser and their media player, it hasn't exactly stopped their competitors from making other softwareAug 29 17:33
MinceRDiablo-D3: you said team fortress, not tf2. dork.Aug 29 17:33
Diablo-D3MinceR: no one says "get your tf2 on"Aug 29 17:33
MinceRDiablo-D3: everyone just runs tf on quake instead? :>Aug 29 17:33
ThistleWebat one point ages ago I thought about buying an old Mac because I loved the asthetics of it, but I wouldn't want to run OSX, and know getting Linux on it can be tricky, and imperfect, with limited choices depending on the Mac in questionAug 29 17:33
Diablo-D3MinceR: I used toAug 29 17:33
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Diablo-D3MinceR: it was funAug 29 17:33
MinceRi used to, tooAug 29 17:33
Diablo-D32fort4 <3Aug 29 17:33
MinceRi've stolen some ideas for my closed-distribution quake mod, tooAug 29 17:34
ThistleWebit was also VERY expensive for an old second hand pcAug 29 17:34
MinceR(it would have been some massive copyright infringement to distribute it, but it was fun on lan parties :> )Aug 29 17:34
Diablo-D3ThistleWeb: you're kidding right?Aug 29 17:34
Diablo-D3I have debian sid running on my powerbook fineAug 29 17:34
MinceRpk13 ftwAug 29 17:34
MinceR(one of my favorite quake maps, from painkeep)Aug 29 17:35
ThistleWebnever tried it, it's just what I've picked up from peepsAug 29 17:35
Diablo-D3MinceR: btw, you know what pisses me off?Aug 29 17:35
Diablo-D3quakelive is still crapAug 29 17:35
MinceRwell, the concept is retardedAug 29 17:35
ThistleWebdebian would probs be the only option I'd want thoughAug 29 17:35
Diablo-D3all they did was shove quake3 into a pluginAug 29 17:35
ThistleWebnot keen on rpm distrosAug 29 17:35
MinceRif players have to install a quakelive-specific plugin anyway, why bother with a browser at all?Aug 29 17:35
MinceRjust re-release q3a with ads and be done with itAug 29 17:35
Diablo-D3MinceR: the problem is, if quake3 crashes, it eats your browserAug 29 17:36
Diablo-D3it takes firefox 5 minutes to startup goddamnitAug 29 17:36
Diablo-D3I have like 500 tabsAug 29 17:36
MinceRlolAug 29 17:36
ThistleWebmaybe it's one of these things that have gotten better and better and I haven't been paying attentionAug 29 17:36
MinceRi tend to move tabs to bookmarks if there are too many of themAug 29 17:36
Diablo-D3it was worse back in the 2.0 daysAug 29 17:36
Diablo-D3it took like 10Aug 29 17:36
Diablo-D3and used 4 gigs of memoryAug 29 17:36
Diablo-D3<daemonfc> but internet explorer would only use 4 megs! and it sucks dicks too!Aug 29 17:37
MinceRlolAug 29 17:37
Diablo-D3<daemonfc> but dont tell anyone it can suck dicks! if word got out it could suck dicks, people would be lined up around the block to get their dicks suckedAug 29 17:37
MinceR:DAug 29 17:37
MinceRwell, sure, IE is like the only way to browse the m$-webAug 29 17:38
Diablo-D3sadly, my version of DaemonFC is a better trollAug 29 17:38
MinceRtoo bad i prefer the real webAug 29 17:38
MinceRbuilt on standard html instead of m$-html, etc.Aug 29 17:38
Diablo-D3I dont even use the web anymoreAug 29 17:38
DaemonFCOpera then?Aug 29 17:38
DaemonFCit's the only one with a proper rendering engineAug 29 17:38
Diablo-D3I just use amule and download my porn that wayAug 29 17:38
MinceRprobably one browser won't suffice anywayAug 29 17:39
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: you're kidding me, right?Aug 29 17:39
Diablo-D3Ive seen opera's source codeAug 29 17:39
Diablo-D3its lulzyAug 29 17:39
MinceRff is a must-have for all the extensions and for full flash supportAug 29 17:39
DaemonFCOpera is not open sourceAug 29 17:39
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: you say that like it means somethingAug 29 17:39
DaemonFCextensions are overratedAug 29 17:39
twitterthis is a tiny and mostly worthless space now -> MinceR: well, sure, IE is like the only way to browse the m$-webAug 29 17:39
Diablo-D3why does opera have to be open source for me to see the code?Aug 29 17:39
twitterthe world has moved on, M$ is history.Aug 29 17:39
Diablo-D3shit dude, Ive seen microsoft source codeAug 29 17:39
ThistleWebyeah extentions like the chuck norris thingy are just what web users needAug 29 17:40
Diablo-D3naw manAug 29 17:40
ThistleWebI'd give up adblocking for chuck norris factsAug 29 17:40
Diablo-D3the "stop hammer time" stop button extension is awesomeAug 29 17:40
MinceRThistleWeb: i was thinking more along the lines of the Web Developer Toolbar and flash video downloadersAug 29 17:40
MinceRperhaps also greasemonkeyAug 29 17:40
ThistleWeblol, yeahAug 29 17:40
Diablo-D3greasemonkey is fucking awesomeAug 29 17:40
ThistleWebopera is nce, but it needs proper extentionsAug 29 17:40
ThistleWebnot the toys it has nowAug 29 17:41
MinceRnoscript is probably a good idea to have tooAug 29 17:41
DaemonFCOpera only restricts the parts that could be security problemsAug 29 17:41
Diablo-D3thats what she saidAug 29 17:41
DaemonFCFirefox extensions are like running a full blown programAug 29 17:41
DaemonFCmost people don't truly appreciate how dangerous Firefox extensions could beAug 29 17:41
DaemonFCjust as bad as a malicious ActiveX control, maybe even worseAug 29 17:42
MinceRexcept i choose what extensions i runAug 29 17:42
ThistleWebmy main beef with opera is that it seems unable to consistently display font sizesAug 29 17:42
MinceRand they can apply to any pageAug 29 17:42
DaemonFCIE at least sandboxes ActiveX nowAug 29 17:42
MinceRwhile RadioActiveX is embedded into pages that don't need itAug 29 17:42
DaemonFCFirefox doesn't sandbox extensionsAug 29 17:42
Diablo-D3fuck yeah, new version of jersey is outAug 29 17:42
MinceRDaemonFC: you're confusing plugins with extensionsAug 29 17:42
MinceRthey serve different purposesAug 29 17:43
ThistleWebeven trying to lock it down, I can go from one site where the text is a nice readable size, to another and it's either Mr Magoo HUGE, or tinyAug 29 17:43
DaemonFCthey *can*Aug 29 17:44
DaemonFCbut that's not saying they always doAug 29 17:44
MinceRthey almost always doAug 29 17:44
MinceRin fact, i don't know of any case when they don'tAug 29 17:44
DaemonFCthe Moonlight "extension" is actually a pluginAug 29 17:44
ThistleWeband the fact that in opera, flash videos seem to autoplay, which I don't likeAug 29 17:44
MinceRwho the hell uses moonlight anyway?Aug 29 17:44
DaemonFCthere's a flash blocking user script for OperaAug 29 17:45
DaemonFCI use itAug 29 17:45
MinceRit's only legal for suse customers, afaikAug 29 17:45
ThistleWebI'd expect these 2 issues can be resolved easily with the right settingsAug 29 17:45
MinceRso fuck thatAug 29 17:45
DaemonFCit works jsut like FlashblockAug 29 17:45
ThistleWebI've just not found themAug 29 17:45
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MinceRi'd like some non-JS flash blockerAug 29 17:45
MinceRbut sadly neither opera nor ff have thatAug 29 17:45
DaemonFCa good ad blocking filter blocks most flash annoyances anywayAug 29 17:45
MinceRswfdec can do a bit of it, but there's lots of flash that doesn't work with swfdecAug 29 17:45
ThistleWebI do like the real time preview / "keep or remove" way opera worksAug 29 17:46
DaemonFCand Swfdec runs the video using only the CPUAug 29 17:46
DaemonFCwatch what it does to your CPU usageAug 29 17:46
MinceRwatch what adobe trash does to your cpu usageAug 29 17:46
DaemonFCalmost nothingAug 29 17:46
DaemonFCit hooks into DirectX or OpenGL and renders on the GPUAug 29 17:46
MinceRyou must be living in some strange alternate reality thenAug 29 17:47
DaemonFCif you have any kind of reasonable video card, Flash won't do anything to your CPUAug 29 17:47
DaemonFCif you're trying to run it on some 10 year old integrated Intel something or other, you'll be in troubleAug 29 17:47
MinceRi'm trying to run it on a pretty new nvidia :>Aug 29 17:48
MinceRand it's about as crap as it ever wasAug 29 17:48
DaemonFCwell you're doing something wrong thenAug 29 17:48
MinceRi've seen moonblight on a cow orker's machineAug 29 17:49
MinceRit wasn't any better eitherAug 29 17:49
DaemonFCare you using a native version or trying to use a plugin "wrapper"?Aug 29 17:49
MinceRDaemonFC: yes, i've chosen the reality to live in wrong, apparentlyAug 29 17:49
MinceRor i'm not using a supercomputer to render a single webpageAug 29 17:49
MinceRit must be one of those thingsAug 29 17:49
DaemonFCmine is hardly a supercomputerAug 29 17:49
MinceRi'm using what debian uses :>Aug 29 17:49
DaemonFCit runs fineAug 29 17:49
MinceRbefore that, i used what ubuntu usedAug 29 17:49
MinceRwhich is probably the same thingAug 29 17:49
MinceRand actually i've used several distros and flash invariably sucked in the exact same wayAug 29 17:50
MinceRwhile non-flash apps did all those things (vector graphics, video playback, whatever) properlyAug 29 17:50
DaemonFCUbuntu still uses the wrapped 32-bit pluginAug 29 17:50
DaemonFCand good luck trying to get rid of thatAug 29 17:50
MinceRand that's beside the fact that none of this crap belongs on webpages anywayAug 29 17:51
DaemonFCit dumps symbolic links to the plugin in all the places any browser could lookAug 29 17:51
MinceRoh noes, symbolic links!Aug 29 17:51
DaemonFCyou need to delete those, the plugin, and the packageAug 29 17:51
DaemonFCit's a pain in the assAug 29 17:51
DaemonFClocate command helpsAug 29 17:51
MinceRit sucked the same way in gentooAug 29 17:51
DaemonFCbest off to just not install theirs and use the 64-bit plugin from Adobe LabsAug 29 17:52
MinceRalso, it sucked the same way on 32bit cpusAug 29 17:52
DaemonFCcopy it into /usr/lib64/mozilla/plugins and restart your browserAug 29 17:52
DaemonFCFlash 10 was an incredible performance improvementAug 29 17:53
MinceRas in, it sucked a little less?Aug 29 17:53
DaemonFCnspluginwrapper has always been pretty uglyAug 29 17:53
DaemonFCOpera's wrapper works betterAug 29 17:53
DaemonFCthere's still a few bugs in the 64-bit Flash plugin that seem to crash under certain circumstances, it interferes with Opera more than FirefoxAug 29 17:54
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DaemonFCif you use Opera, you should use 32-bit Flash with OperawrapperAug 29 17:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] right, I am going to Vagabonds tonight. Still v poor. Buy me a drink? I put out! By me two drinks and I'll refrain from putting out!Aug 29 17:54
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DaemonFCFirefox has always just seemed to be too slow and too memory hungry for no more than it doesAug 29 17:57
DaemonFCOpera has all the stuff I needed Firefox extensions for built inAug 29 17:57
ThistleWebglad opera suits youAug 29 17:57
DaemonFCthe licensing affects what most distributions ship instead of the quality of the productAug 29 17:57
ThistleWebchoice is a good thingAug 29 17:57
DaemonFCIf Opera was to go open source, it would run them out of businessAug 29 17:59
ThistleWebbollocksAug 29 17:59
DaemonFCanyone could just recompile it, not pay them, and slap it on their deviceAug 29 17:59
DaemonFCOpera would go bankruptAug 29 17:59
ThistleWebI'm guessing the urge not to troll has worn off eh?Aug 29 17:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] DW/LJ: Party party party. 29 17:59
ThistleWebdidn't take longAug 29 17:59
ThistleWebagainAug 29 18:00
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DaemonFC 29 18:02
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DaemonFCan interview with their CEO about why they won't go open sourceAug 29 18:02
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DaemonFCGoogle seems to fund any browser that will use them in the search boxAug 29 18:10
ThistleWebyeah imagine that, funding a number of browsersAug 29 18:10
DaemonFCthey even fund Internet Explorer-based browsersAug 29 18:11
ThistleWebnot as focussed at denying choice as MS, they only fund their ownAug 29 18:11
DaemonFCthey gave a million dollars to Maxthon aloneAug 29 18:11
ThistleWebthey're just doing the whole anti-competitive thingy all wrong. Perhaps they should get a proxy into Redmond to learn from the masters how it's doneAug 29 18:12
DaemonFCGoogle pays an obscene amount of money to make sure its search monopoly remainsAug 29 18:12
DaemonFCthey pay like hundreds of millions a year to Firefox just to keep smaller search engines who can't afford it outAug 29 18:13
DaemonFCit's pretty much exactly like MicrosoftAug 29 18:13
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ThistleWebI'm guessing that I'm the only person who hasn't ignored you judging by the conversation, time to join the crowd methinksAug 29 18:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] A fazer o jantar!!Aug 29 18:22
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DaemonFChmmAug 29 18:34
DaemonFC 29 18:34
DaemonFC"Also, this is the first release of Slackware with native support for the 64-bit x86_64 architecture!"Aug 29 18:35
DaemonFCtook them about long enoughAug 29 18:35
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Omar87Hi allAug 29 18:52
Omar87Any new updates on the i4i lawsuit against MS?Aug 29 18:53
amarsh04only hp and dell's amicus briefs posted on www.groklaw.netAug 29 18:54
DaemonFCDell and HP files friend of the court petitionsAug 29 18:56
DaemonFCin Microsoft's favorAug 29 18:56
DaemonFC*filedAug 29 18:56
DaemonFCyeah, thatAug 29 18:56
DaemonFCwhat systems do they ship Word on?Aug 29 18:56
DaemonFCtrialware maybeAug 29 18:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Designers prefer websites designed by designers 29 19:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] /me is going to VACUUM Firefox's .sqlite'sAug 29 19:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] /me is done...Aug 29 19:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♺ @photomatt: Is this the best WordPress Cake? 29 19:34
trmanco 29 19:45
*neighborlee has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Aug 29 20:02
*schestowitz listens to 29 20:03
schestowitzI messed up the rowing contestAug 29 20:03
schestowitzTHe ergo froze half way throughAug 29 20:04
schestowitzFirst thing it ever happens this decade !!Aug 29 20:04
schestowitzANd in a contestAug 29 20:04
schestowitzThen the straps came looseAug 29 20:04
schestowitzOmar87: they got an appealAug 29 20:11
schestowitzWith help from DOJ and other b*ches like HP and Dell filing amiciAug 29 20:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ♺ @trmanco] ♺ @photomatt: Is this the best WordPress Cake? 29 20:13
schestowitzvia mail: "Motorola confirms upcoming linux handset [..] Here's another: Motorola will use Android (linux) next:Aug 29 20:13
schestowitz"Aug 29 20:13
schestowitz"> i have seen figures that say that 60% of all smart phones use FOSS OSes.Aug 29 20:15
schestowitzVery doubtful. But... Symbian now counts as FOSS, so..."Aug 29 20:15
DaemonFCmine doesn't :PAug 29 20:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] This is a very creative sign: 29 20:22
DaemonFCIt doesn't look like Gecko will ever be on mobile phones in any serious way nowAug 29 20:24
DaemonFCif you want to see just how bad Fennec is, they have compiled versions for Windows, Linux, and MacAug 29 20:25
MinceRit already is on N900Aug 29 20:26
DaemonFCyeah, Nokia is being cheapAug 29 20:26
DaemonFCand if they wanted a decent browser without paying anyone they would have used WebkitAug 29 20:26
trmancojust a rendering engine won't be enoughAug 29 20:27
MinceRWebkit is not a browser, it's just a rendering engineAug 29 20:27
trmanco:>Aug 29 20:27
DaemonFCfor all the money they spent porting FirefoxAug 29 20:27
DaemonFCthey could have done something usefulAug 29 20:27
schestowitz (Blu-ray Drives in PCs? Fuggetaboutit )Aug 29 20:28
DaemonFCif one guy got bored and wrote Midori, then you can't tell me that with all the employees Nokia has, they couldn't have built a browser with Webkit for their phonesAug 29 20:28
trmancowell, the point is using free softwareAug 29 20:29
DaemonFCWebkit is free softwareAug 29 20:29
MinceRperhaps they don't like Webkit as much as you do :>Aug 29 20:29
trmancowebkit isn't a browserAug 29 20:29
MinceRthen again, i've heard Qt includes WebKit now...Aug 29 20:29
DaemonFCI don't even use Firefox on my desktop, I sure as hell am not going to use a brain damaged half functional version on my phoneAug 29 20:30
trmancothey could have built a web browser which wasn't going to be free software with webkitAug 29 20:30
trmancoI can see you prefer your American style iphone yAug 29 20:30
DaemonFCOpera runs on the Blackberry, and it can even play Flash videosAug 29 20:30
trmancoso can fennec (flash videos)Aug 29 20:31
trmancoisn't opera a paid app on cell phones?Aug 29 20:31
DaemonFCnoAug 29 20:31
trmancoopera fullAug 29 20:31
DaemonFCit's freewareAug 29 20:31
trmanconot miniAug 29 20:31
MinceRprobably it's only paid if the phone maker preinstalls itAug 29 20:32
DaemonFCand sometimes it's included on the phoneAug 29 20:32
DaemonFCdoesn't *have* to beAug 29 20:32
trmancoheh, not so long ago the full opera was a paid app on nokia 6600Aug 29 20:32
trmancoI had 1- pirate it or 2- get miniAug 29 20:32
DaemonFCI downloaded Opera onto my old Nokia phoneAug 29 20:32
DaemonFCit was freeAug 29 20:32
trmancoI would usually go with 2Aug 29 20:32
trmancoof use the trialAug 29 20:32
schestowitzNeat: 29 20:33
DaemonFCthe data transfer to download it was the only thing you could say I "paid for"Aug 29 20:33
schestowitztrmanco: can read itAug 29 20:33
DaemonFCbut that's downloading anythingAug 29 20:33
schestowitzLet's not say "pirate"Aug 29 20:34
schestowitzUnless it's something criminal near SomaliaAug 29 20:34
trmancoyeahAug 29 20:34
schestowitzBy allowing them to change the language we already lose the debateAug 29 20:34
DaemonFCI used to register Opera btwAug 29 20:34
schestowitzIf the MPAA started calling itself MAFIAA in public it would not be respectedAug 29 20:34
trmancothe download costs here are 1¢ each KBAug 29 20:35
trmancowith a download speed of 4 KM/sAug 29 20:35
trmancoKB*Aug 29 20:35
DaemonFCI have unlimited downloading nowAug 29 20:35
trmancothis is gprsAug 29 20:35
DaemonFC$10 a month flat rateAug 29 20:35
trmanco2.5gAug 29 20:35
schestowitzCOMCASTAug 29 20:35
DaemonFCschestowitz: I'm talking about my phoneAug 29 20:35
DaemonFCComcast cap is 250 gigs a monthAug 29 20:36
DaemonFCif I haven't hit the cap I'd really hate to see who wouldAug 29 20:36
trmancoI have no capAug 29 20:36
trmanco:-PAug 29 20:36
schestowitz 29 20:36
trmancotake that comcastAug 29 20:36
trmanco:-PAug 29 20:36
DaemonFCyou probably have one of the ISPs that has an invisicapAug 29 20:36
schestowitzVirgin does tha sameAug 29 20:36
schestowitzThere should be laws against itAug 29 20:37
trmancoDaemonFC, what that?Aug 29 20:37
schestowitzAnd the FCC should come cracking downAug 29 20:37
schestowitzSame for the whole phorm thingAug 29 20:37
DaemonFClike "unreasonable usage gives us the right to cut you off" then they never define what unreasonable meansAug 29 20:37
DaemonFCComcast use to have that policyAug 29 20:37
schestowitzThey prostitute themselves or pimp out their clientsAug 29 20:37
trmancoI need all that bandwidth to update my 500 home servers :-PAug 29 20:37
trmancoDaemonFC, never heard of thatAug 29 20:37
DaemonFCschestowitz: Yes, I wrote that, and I was pissedAug 29 20:37
trmancoor of anyone with that problemAug 29 20:38
DaemonFCI'm not a hige fan of Comcast they're just the least shitty deal hereAug 29 20:38
DaemonFCthe only other guys are AT&TAug 29 20:38
trmancoI know people who break 100GB mark with a 4Mbit connectionAug 29 20:38
DaemonFC*hugeAug 29 20:38
trmancoper monthAug 29 20:38
DaemonFCAT&T's only plan under $35 a month that doesn't include a phone line is $20 a month for 768 kbps ADSLAug 29 20:39
DaemonFCand you have to sign up for a whole year to get thatAug 29 20:39
DaemonFCtheir next bump up is $35 for 1.5 Mbps, and that goes month to monthAug 29 20:40
trmancoI prefer a phone lineAug 29 20:40
DaemonFCbut then the phone company hits you with $70 for the router modemAug 29 20:41
trmanco:OAug 29 20:41
DaemonFC*and* a whole bunch of fees and telecom taxes they never mentionedAug 29 20:41
DaemonFC$200 to "install it" (install meaning running 20 feet of cord from the phone pole to your houseAug 29 20:41
DaemonFCand another $175 if you break their contractAug 29 20:42
trmanco...Aug 29 20:42
DaemonFCyeah...Aug 29 20:42
DaemonFCand then they obfuscate the modem setupAug 29 20:42
DaemonFCso you NEED the Windows or Mac software to set the modem upAug 29 20:43
trmancoI hate modemsAug 29 20:43
trmancoespecially usb modemsAug 29 20:43
DaemonFCthe software fails to install under Wine of courseAug 29 20:43
DaemonFCthis Motorola cable modem I have has been decentAug 29 20:43
DaemonFCthe RCA ones are junkAug 29 20:43
DaemonFCRCA ones last about 6-8 months then they'll overheat and become unstableAug 29 20:44
DaemonFCeventually they won't even power onAug 29 20:44
schestowitzRCA still exists?!?!Aug 29 20:44
schestowitzI bought an RCA radio in FL like a decade or more agoAug 29 20:44
DaemonFCas a brand, yesAug 29 20:44
schestowitzThere still struggled to surviveAug 29 20:44
schestowitzAs a brand?Aug 29 20:44
schestowitzMeaning...?Aug 29 20:45
schestowitzThey sent it to China?Aug 29 20:45
schestowitzAnd put the American brand name on it?Aug 29 20:45
DaemonFCRCA/GE/Proscan are all brands owned by Thomson Consumer ElectronicsAug 29 20:45
DaemonFCthey make the stuff in Mexico and ChinaAug 29 20:45
schestowitzGE?Aug 29 20:45
DaemonFCand Thomson is a French companyAug 29 20:45
schestowitzThomson is a nasty companyAug 29 20:45
schestowitzIsn't it with Reuters too?Aug 29 20:45
DaemonFCyeah, my dad worked for RCA starting in 1976 I believeAug 29 20:45
schestowitzAnd researcn field...Aug 29 20:46
DaemonFCThomson kept him after they bought RCA in the early 90s, laid him off in 2001Aug 29 20:46
schestowitzGE as in General Electric??Aug 29 20:46
DaemonFCyeah, GE consumer electronics division, yeahAug 29 20:46
schestowitzRCA is still in some old USian tunesAug 29 20:46
DaemonFCthe military contracts of RCA and GE went mainly to RaytheonAug 29 20:46
schestowitzLike McDougal DougalasAug 29 20:46
DaemonFCmy dad has also worked for RaytheonAug 29 20:46
schestowitz*McDonaldAug 29 20:46
schestowitzRaytheon use LinuxAug 29 20:47
DaemonFChe can't even tell me what he did at Raytheon because he signed an NDAAug 29 20:47
schestowitzI know that much, but  their defense work it probably more on the confidential side..?Aug 29 20:47
schestowitzYeahAug 29 20:47
schestowitzI figured that.Aug 29 20:47
DaemonFCthey work on classified government weapons systemsAug 29 20:47
schestowitzYeah.Aug 29 20:47
DaemonFCthat's all he can tell meAug 29 20:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] chatting at #tinychatAug 29 20:47
schestowitzSimulations done on LinuxAug 29 20:47
DaemonFChe could also tell me that he worked on radar systems and other components for the F-22 and F-35Aug 29 20:48
trmancoahAug 29 20:48
schestowitzNDAs are dehumanising Aug 29 20:48
schestowitzThought becomes crime.. like patents and allAug 29 20:48
DaemonFChe has patentsAug 29 20:48
DaemonFCbut he can't enforce them or charge royaltiesAug 29 20:49
DaemonFChe developed components on company time when he was working at RCA/ThomsonAug 29 20:49
DaemonFCand so even though the patents are in his name, they own the exclusive rightsAug 29 20:49
schestowitzTechFLash has really slown downAug 29 20:49
schestowitzI'm pleased to see it cause it's MS PR more or lessAug 29 20:50
schestowitzSame goes for other MS 'PR' blogAug 29 20:50
schestowitz*blogsAug 29 20:50
schestowitzAlso means less work for me tracking the VoleAug 29 20:50
DaemonFChe hold 9 patents if I remember correctlyAug 29 20:50
DaemonFCmainly on television componentsAug 29 20:50
schestowitzI ought to organise the Wiki some more this weekendAug 29 20:50
schestowitzThis girl that I like from the gym is gonna watch it this weekend... gave her the address :-)Aug 29 20:50
schestowitzPatents are usually owned by the companyAug 29 20:51
schestowitzThe names on it are the least credit they getAug 29 20:51
schestowitzAcademic work can be similar wrt patentsAug 29 20:51
schestowitz"> Yes, Symbian was about 30% of the market, as I recall.Aug 29 20:52
schestowitzMore like 60%, depending on form factor. "Aug 29 20:52
schestowitzHow much does Synbian account for in_smart_phones?Aug 29 20:52
DaemonFChe's doing all kinds of work now, some of it is really below himAug 29 20:52
DaemonFCbut it's what is hiringAug 29 20:52
DaemonFCSymbian is mostly Nokia, right?Aug 29 20:53
schestowitz 29 20:54
schestowitzAll NokiaAug 29 20:54
schestowitz100%Aug 29 20:54
DaemonFCopen source is used by companies to grandstandAug 29 20:54
schestowitzEPLAug 29 20:54
schestowitzHardly 'open'Aug 29 20:54
schestowitzPR purposesAug 29 20:54
DaemonFCthey can release things that are only really suited to their needs because they still control it anywayAug 29 20:54
schestowitzLiike the new BONG SDKAug 29 20:54
schestowitzMsPLAug 29 20:55
DaemonFCalso a lot of closed source companies release their SDKs under BSD-like licensesAug 29 20:55
DaemonFCso you can make plugins for their software but you really have no idea how the software worksAug 29 20:55
DaemonFCFoobar2000 is like that, so is Winamp, and OperaAug 29 20:55
DaemonFCall good programs thoughAug 29 20:55
schestowitz"With that being the case, and there being no chance whatsoever of SCO successfully pursuing a Linux lawsuit, I strongly suspect that the Trustee will drop all of SCO's lawsuits and spend his time on rendering down SCO's remains into pennies on dollars. Rationally, there's nothing left to do, and with a reasonable person now in charge of SCO's remains, that's what I expect to happen."Aug 29 20:56
schestowitz 29 20:56
DaemonFCWinamp has stated that they couldn't open source even if they wanted toAug 29 20:56
DaemonFCbecause they've licensed so many things for it that even they don't own all the parts to make it workAug 29 20:56
schestowitzllama will kick winamp in the arse if it doesn't liberate the codeAug 29 20:57
DaemonFCNvidia likes to use that one tooAug 29 20:57
schestowitzBlame-paasingAug 29 20:57
schestowitzHow convenientAug 29 20:57
DaemonFCAOL/Nullsoft ported Winamp to Linux back in 2003Aug 29 20:57
schestowitzEventually they open-sourceAug 29 20:57
DaemonFCdidn't last longAug 29 20:57
schestowitzNobody then asks questions about the faux excusezAug 29 20:57
DaemonFCthe only thing it could do was play MP3sAug 29 20:57
schestowitzxmms is betterAug 29 20:58
schestowitzUses less RAMAug 29 20:58
DaemonFCWinamp's core and to a greater extent, plugins, are all very dependent on WindowsAug 29 20:58
schestowitzIn Windows 98 I had to use older versions of winamp to cope with a 32mb of ram laptopAug 29 20:58
DaemonFCit's why it has never worked well in WineAug 29 20:58
DaemonFCthey would have to rewrite almost all of it to do a proper portAug 29 20:59
DaemonFCschestowitz: Winamp doesn't use an unreasonable amount of RAMAug 29 20:59
schestowitz 29 20:59
DaemonFCif it does, you can always use the classic skin and it won't take much more than 2.xAug 29 20:59
schestowitz "The SD card in the hand should have been a 15x11 mm micro SD card instead of a 32x24 standard SD card "Aug 29 21:00
schestowitz"At any rate, it seems as if FOSS has a dominant share in the smart phone market, and as smart phones proceed toward convergence with small form factor netbooks, it seems to be fertile ground for converting lots of Microsoft Windows users to FOSS users, even if they don't know it."Aug 29 21:01
schestowitz"  Once the low end netbook market is lost, FOSS can start to creep up the market into more expensive notebooks and then hopefully also converge with corporate FOSS desktop installs in corporate environments like Hollywood, which I have heard is top to bottom Linux everywhere except maybe a few CEO offices. "Aug 29 21:01
trmanco 29 21:02
DaemonFChmmm, seems like Opera Mobile is still $24 if you use Windows MobileAug 29 21:02
DaemonFCbut there's a beta of 9.7 that's now freewareAug 29 21:02
schestowitz "I heard a reputable economist speak on TV. He came to say US economic recovery is fundamentally based on “innovation”. He sounded pretty convinced that this is going to restore it in a few years."Aug 29 21:03
DaemonFCHolly wood using Linux?Aug 29 21:03
DaemonFC*HollywoodAug 29 21:03
DaemonFCthey're mostly Mac I thoughAug 29 21:04
MinceRwell, you thought wrongAug 29 21:04
DaemonFCwhat professional video editing stuff runs on Linux?Aug 29 21:04
MinceRever heard of cinepaint?Aug 29 21:04
DaemonFCI haven't seen anyAug 29 21:04
DaemonFCare they using their own applications?Aug 29 21:04
MinceRor rendering farms?Aug 29 21:04
DaemonFCyeah, it looks like they use their own softwareAug 29 21:05
DaemonFC 29 21:06
schestowitzSlackware is still kde-based, right?Aug 29 21:06
schestowitzI think there was some backlash a while agoAug 29 21:06
schestowitz"I remember with great fondness the KDE 4.0 release event, including how Volkerding joined us in Palo Alto not only for the technical side of the event but also to get down with some post-event karaoke at a local bar. Awesome fun."Aug 29 21:06
schestowitz 29 21:06
DaemonFC"the whole movie was rendered and touched up with the help of custom made software which ran on Linux systems."Aug 29 21:06
schestowitzDaemonFC: no, LinuxAug 29 21:06
schestowitzUsed to be SolarisAug 29 21:06
DaemonFCThey're using RHEL as a cheap platform for software they would have to develop anyway"Aug 29 21:06
schestowitzHollywood isn't PR agenciesAug 29 21:06
schestowitzThey don't need MacsAug 29 21:06
schestowitzThey have proprietary s/w for LinuxAug 29 21:07
schestowitzRHELAug 29 21:07
schestowitzOhAug 29 21:07
schestowitzBeat me to it, I see...Aug 29 21:07
schestowitzYes, they use long-term supported platsAug 29 21:07
DaemonFCthat's what I was saying, I haven't seen any good video editing software on Linux, maybe good for editing home movies or low budget projectsAug 29 21:07
schestowitzRHEL can offer patches for like 8 yearsAug 29 21:08
DaemonFCbut nothing like the kind of effects you see in a $100 million blockbusterAug 29 21:08
schestowitzDaemonFC: well, that's expensive s/wAug 29 21:08
schestowitzAnd Linux is reliableAug 29 21:08
schestowitzRealNetworks use LinuxAug 29 21:08
DaemonFCyeah, HelixAug 29 21:08
schestowitzThey use to use Windows, but it crashes a lotAug 29 21:08
schestowitz Aug 29 21:08
schestowitz 29 21:08
schestowitzI\m gonna post these videos soonAug 29 21:08
schestowitzReal GM says they use Linux cause it's betterAug 29 21:09
schestowitzLesser known storiesAug 29 21:09
schestowitzNo PR for GNUAug 29 21:09
DaemonFCI haven't had the RTM version of Windows 7 collapse on me yetAug 29 21:09
DaemonFCthe betas and the RC were flaky at timesAug 29 21:09
schestowitzblockbuster films use s/w few would buyAug 29 21:09
schestowitzMaybe the price tags would be 6-figure costsAug 29 21:09
DaemonFCwell, nobody would buy it because it's really overkill for what most people would do with it anywayAug 29 21:10
schestowitzTrading platforms too, I reckonAug 29 21:10
schestowitzIf you make huge bloated s/w for just 50 clients worldwide, then it ought to cost a lotAug 29 21:10
schestowitzNot the MS-type s/wAug 29 21:10
schestowitz$100k, not $100Aug 29 21:10
DaemonFCright, Windows isn't used by 50 peopleAug 29 21:11
schestowitzMicrosoft's OS is now worth like $1Aug 29 21:11
DaemonFCmore like hundreds of millionsAug 29 21:11
schestowitzAnd they give Vista 7 for free trialAug 29 21:11
DaemonFCbut it still costs hundreds of dollars eachAug 29 21:11
schestowitzLike 4 months IIRCAug 29 21:11
schestowitzGetting people stuck and 'addicted'Aug 29 21:11
schestowitzBut waitAug 29 21:11
schestowitzCan't people just reinstall every 4 months and use trial version?Aug 29 21:11
schestowitzAs in time limited?Aug 29 21:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Lord Mandelson: “Taking something for nothing is wrong” --– No, not expenses, data. #piracy #tpb #torrents #factAug 29 21:11
schestowitzDoes it register people's h/w specs to prevent this?Aug 29 21:11
DaemonFCschestowitz: Yeah, you couldAug 29 21:11
DaemonFCno, it doesn'tAug 29 21:12
schestowitzHehAug 29 21:12
schestowitzTrouible aheadAug 29 21:12
schestowitzOffice tooAug 29 21:12
DaemonFCschestowitz:  If you're going to just use the grace period, download Windows ServerAug 29 21:12
schestowitzApps loses them HUGE customersAug 29 21:12
DaemonFCand you get 6 monthsAug 29 21:12
schestowitzDC, Motorola, NZ national post..Aug 29 21:12
schestowitzNow they just smear Google and have a plot to assassinate the companyAug 29 21:12
schestowitzTime to send Microsoft execs to a prison sentenceAug 29 21:12
DaemonFCMicrosoft is using the same keys for every Windows Server trial nowAug 29 21:13
schestowitzOrganised crime is still a crimeAug 29 21:13
DaemonFCthey'll activate Windows for 180 daysAug 29 21:13
schestowitzI haven't activates Mandriva yetAug 29 21:13
DaemonFCso I suppose you could use your 30 day grace period, your 3 rearms, and then slap in a trial key on the last dayAug 29 21:13
schestowitzI must be doing something wrongAug 29 21:13
schestowitz"Mr Data, Activate!"Aug 29 21:13
DaemonFCyou'd get 300 days before you have to reinstallAug 29 21:13
DaemonFCand you haven't actually done anything illegalAug 29 21:14
DaemonFCso that gives you about 10 monthsAug 29 21:14
schestowitzHere he is activating Windows 7: 29 21:14
DaemonFCschestowitz: 29 21:15
DaemonFC 29 21:18
DaemonFCthere's a newer interview with Opera's CEOAug 29 21:18
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schestowitzEek.Aug 29 21:20
schestowitz  load average: 14.51, 4.25, 1.90Aug 29 21:20
DaemonFC"My impression is that if we were to open source Opera, some people would be able to look at our source code and they could potentially help us. I think still most of the work would be done by us. Just like it actually is with the other major open source projects. If you want to contribute to one of the open source projects it's not all that easy in practice. Because there's someone as a gatekeeper who controls it."Aug 29 21:20
DaemonFCand that brings about forks too, like FunPidgin/Carrier, which didn't go anywhere unfortunatelyAug 29 21:21
DaemonFCor when Pidgin decided to stop working on voice and video because they didn't have those kinds of resourcesAug 29 21:22
DaemonFCthe problem is that not everyone is a programmer, I can use Pidgin, it's obvious to any user that it's not complete, but yet I can't fix it because I am not a programmerAug 29 21:23
DaemonFCso having the source code or having a binary is the same thing to meAug 29 21:23
MinceRso stop whining and start using live messenger already.Aug 29 21:23
MinceRand leave us alone.Aug 29 21:23
schestowitzQUOTE: If you had 30 seconds to tell someone why it matters that FOSS succeed in taking dominant market share over Microsoft, what would you tell them?Aug 29 21:24
schestowitzIf you had to 2 minutes to tell a story as to the same thing, what story would you tell?  If forgot to stipulate that you can't use any industry terms or abbreviations or acronyms or jargon in telling the two items below.  It must be all in layperson's terms.Aug 29 21:24
MinceRit's not like anyone is forcing you to use FLOSS.Aug 29 21:24
schestowitz /UNQUOTEAug 29 21:24
schestowitzMinceR: the opposite is trueAug 29 21:24
schestowitzPeople are forced to buy Windows with a... well, HARDWAREAug 29 21:24
MinceRi know, but DaemonFC doesn't know.Aug 29 21:24
amarsh04slight difference... I'm not a C programmer, but I can rebuild code that others have provided - otherwise I couldn't run xmms 1.2 any moreAug 29 21:24
DaemonFCcompetition is important from the standpoint that it gives your customers a nuclear optionAug 29 21:24
DaemonFCit keeps you honest where you *have* to beAug 29 21:25
schestowitzxmms crashed for meAug 29 21:25
schestowitzI emptied ..xmms for a new settings profile to be built, but no happinessAug 29 21:25
schestowitzOther than those random crashes it works wellAug 29 21:25
schestowitzWeird... cause on Ubuntu it would run for months not crashingAug 29 21:25
DaemonFCwhen Microsoft does improve bits of Windows or doesn't clamp down on you with DRM where they otherwise could have, I think it's because they don't want to back you into a cornerAug 29 21:26
DaemonFCand that's why you haven't seen DRM really get in your face as much as they wanted to with "Palladium"Aug 29 21:27
MinceRlolAug 29 21:27
amarsh04I've rebuilt xmms 1:1.2.10+20061101 on Debian unstable i386 and it's fairly well behavedAug 29 21:27
MinceRno, palladium didn't go that far because the hw companies didn't like the idea that muchAug 29 21:27
DaemonFCYou keep hearing the FSF shout that the sky is falling, but I've never encoded any media with DRMAug 29 21:27
DaemonFCI've never purchased any DRM'd filesAug 29 21:27
MinceRnot everybody liked the idea of "hey, let's put a backdoor that m$ can use into every PC from now on!"Aug 29 21:28
DaemonFCif you pop in a CD and rip it into Windows Media out of ignorance, that's your problemAug 29 21:28
schestowitzI need to run "soundwrapper xmms %U"Aug 29 21:28
DaemonFCit's not cause there are no choicesAug 29 21:28
amarsh04are you on a machine running pulseaudio, schestowitz?Aug 29 21:29
DaemonFCOgg files play on Windows with a 2 MB plugin or just about any other playerAug 29 21:29
schestowitzamarsh04: yesAug 29 21:29
amarsh04I'm glad I haven't had to deal with pulseaudio yetAug 29 21:29
DaemonFCand there's Blu Ray ripping software for Windows that Microsoft can't stop you from usingAug 29 21:30
schestowitzI had to change my xbindkeys file to reflect on itAug 29 21:30
DaemonFCand SecuROM removers for gamesAug 29 21:30
MinceRpulseaudio sucksAug 29 21:31
schestowitzSwedish Regulators Say The Word 'bank' Not Allowed In Any Domain Names... Except If You're A Bank < >. Yeah, that'll stop the fraud...Aug 29 21:31
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trmancopulseaudio works greatAug 29 21:31
DaemonFCicckAug 29 21:31
*Omar87 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Aug 29 21:31
trmancoit doesAug 29 21:31
DaemonFCbullshitAug 29 21:31
trmancowtfAug 29 21:32
DaemonFCeverytime they get something to work with it, it breaks something elseAug 29 21:32
trmancoopserv kick me if I'm lying :-PAug 29 21:32
trmanconahAug 29 21:32
trmancothat's not my caseAug 29 21:32
schestowitzA Hunger Strike Isn't A New Business Model And It Won't Stop File Sharing < >Aug 29 21:33
schestowitzGood headlienAug 29 21:33
trmancoit's been working great on my machine since 8.10Aug 29 21:33
*tacone (n=rooms@ has joined #boycottnovellAug 29 21:33
trmancoI actually disabled it on 8.04 because it had some strange problemsAug 29 21:33
DaemonFCyeah, well, you aren't trying to stream with VLCAug 29 21:33
trmancothen enabled it againAug 29 21:33
schestowitzpulseaudio -- what is it that breaks for people?Aug 29 21:33
DaemonFCPulseaudio effectively makes that impossible unless you uninstall itAug 29 21:33
schestowitzI still try to figure it outAug 29 21:33
trmancoVLC is a a QT appAug 29 21:33
trmancoI don't mix sorryAug 29 21:33
DaemonFCso?Aug 29 21:33
schestowitzNo worse than alsa in ubuntu 7.094Aug 29 21:33
schestowitz*7.04Aug 29 21:33
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trmancoalsa had sound crackling problems on 7.04Aug 29 21:34
trmancoand it still doesAug 29 21:34
DaemonFCand it has them even worse nowAug 29 21:34
DaemonFC:DAug 29 21:34
trmancoif you play doom, you can see that stuff happenAug 29 21:34
schestowitzI guess people forgot about WindowsAug 29 21:34
DaemonFCsome of the more cutting edge distributions are getting over that just because Pulseaudio made it intolerableAug 29 21:34
schestowitzThe audio there locks uopAug 29 21:34
MinceRschestowitz: it breaks the high-level api of alsa, with doing so it also breaks dmixAug 29 21:35
DaemonFCand the Linux developers are fixing ALSAAug 29 21:35
trmancoit's recommended to disable pcmAug 29 21:35
schestowitzIn Windows 98 it occasionally requird a rebootAug 29 21:35
schestowitzNot re-loginAug 29 21:35
MinceRschestowitz: and if the system load is high, it makes sound skip like it isn't funnyAug 29 21:35
schestowitzRebootAug 29 21:35
schestowitzFor stupid sound issuesAug 29 21:35
schestowitzMaybe it's still there in Windows, who knows?Aug 29 21:35
MinceRso basically it reimplements dmix in a screwed-up wayAug 29 21:35
DaemonFCschestowitz: Windows has had user mode audio since VistaAug 29 21:35
schestowitzVista got worse than XP, sound-wiseAug 29 21:35
DaemonFCit hardly ever glitches in Windows 7 now, but even Vista was better about it than XPAug 29 21:35
trmancoI'ts hard to admit, but I think it actually improved sound-wiseAug 29 21:36
trmancovistaAug 29 21:36
DaemonFCit didAug 29 21:36
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DaemonFCXP's sound mixer was terribleAug 29 21:36
schestowitzbash-3.2$ soundwrapper xmms %UAug 29 21:36
schestowitzE: shm.c: Invalid shared memory segment sizeAug 29 21:36
trmancothat was actually one thing they did rightAug 29 21:36
schestowitzIt's still runningAug 29 21:36
trmanco:|Aug 29 21:36
trmancouse mucAug 29 21:36
schestowitzBut not perfectly operationalAug 29 21:36
trmanco:-pAug 29 21:37
DaemonFCWindows 2003/XP x64 had some improvementsAug 29 21:37
trmancowhy the soundwrapper thingy?Aug 29 21:37
schestowitzpulseAug 29 21:37
DaemonFCfixed the glitching but still no per application volume controlsAug 29 21:37
trmancoDaemonFC, no it didn'tAug 29 21:37
trmancoin the xp land 32 bit has the best soundAug 29 21:37
DaemonFCnot in my experienceAug 29 21:37
trmancookAug 29 21:38
DaemonFCprobably all depends on the drivers you haveAug 29 21:38
DaemonFCIntel's HDA audio drivers are pretty straightforwardAug 29 21:38
schestowitzxmms: pulsecore/mutex-posix.c:92: pa_mutex_lock: Assertion `pthread_mutex_lock(&m->mutex) == 0' failed.Aug 29 21:38
trmancolet me check hardwareAug 29 21:38
trmancoschestowitz, what version?Aug 29 21:38
DaemonFCI could see where you might run into problems with more complicated sound cardsAug 29 21:39
trmancoI don't think xmms is compatible with itAug 29 21:39
DaemonFCschestowitz: XMMS is basically abandonware at this pointAug 29 21:39
schestowitztrmanco: 1.2Aug 29 21:39
DaemonFCAudacious is the only semi-current forkAug 29 21:39
trmancoIntel Corporation 82801G (ICH7 Family) High Definition Audio ControllerAug 29 21:39
DaemonFCI have a Intel G33 boardAug 29 21:40
DaemonFCICH9Aug 29 21:40
DaemonFCso it's quite a bit newerAug 29 21:40
trmancoyeah, my hardware is oldAug 29 21:40
trmancofrom 2005Aug 29 21:40
trmancodamn machine hasn't given my a problemAug 29 21:40
trmanco:DAug 29 21:40
trmancoand it has been though a lotAug 29 21:40
*amarsh04 is on a 1998 era machineAug 29 21:40
trmancoback when I was a "heavy windows gamer"Aug 29 21:41
DaemonFCit also has S/PDIF and 7.1 channel supportAug 29 21:41
DaemonFCit's pretty decent for an integrated chipsetAug 29 21:41
trmancomine has s/pdif with 5.1Aug 29 21:41
amarsh04old computer to me means PDP-11Aug 29 21:41
amarsh04or olderAug 29 21:41
DaemonFCI still have Windows 98Aug 29 21:41
trmancothat junk?Aug 29 21:42
DaemonFCas a gag I ran it on a 3.8 Ghz Pentium 4 Extreme Edition CPUAug 29 21:42
DaemonFCwith 4 gigs of RAMAug 29 21:42
DaemonFC:DAug 29 21:42
trmancoand the os just explodedAug 29 21:42
DaemonFCnope, it still workedAug 29 21:42
trmancoit's too fast :-PAug 29 21:42
DaemonFCit doesn't have any SMP supportAug 29 21:42
DaemonFCso multicore processors would only be seen as a uniprocessor system by Windows 98Aug 29 21:43
DaemonFCit'll still boot up on a Core 2 Duo thoughAug 29 21:43
trmanco 29 21:43
DaemonFCWindows 2000 supports dual core CPUsAug 29 21:43
DaemonFCthrough the same mechanism that was intended for dual socket motherboardsAug 29 21:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Warsow 0.5 released: 29 21:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] /me pensa seriamente em *mudar* para KDE #kdeAug 29 21:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] found oyster card. leaving at last!Aug 29 21:48
*tacone has quit ("Rooms • iPhone IRC Client •")Aug 29 21:49
schestowitzI think I got xmms under controlAug 29 21:53
schestowitzIt has some nice kde panel app that I love cause it's light, fast, has global accelerators, and quick db lookupAug 29 21:53
schestowitzAll in just a few megs of ramAug 29 21:53
schestowitz "FSF did some anti-Apple campaigns too. Personally I worry more about Apple becase they have user loyalty; Microsoft doesn't"Aug 29 21:56
ziggyfish 29 21:58
_goblinMicrosoft loyalty does exist - they just have to pay for it, thats all.Aug 29 21:58
trmancoyesAug 29 21:58
schestowitzMany headlines out there about Nokia's Linux 29 22:00
schestowitz_goblin: pay for the loyalty, not the product :-)Aug 29 22:00
schestowitzThey say Apple has fans and Microsoft has shilsAug 29 22:00
schestowitzThe reality is that Apple too engages in the whole "evangelism" nonesenseAug 29 22:00
schestowitzApple also use the anti-Microsoft sentimentAug 29 22:01
schestowitzAnd those who want to be differentAug 29 22:01
schestowitzJust watch those Mac adsAug 29 22:01
*twitter1 (n=willhill@ has joined #boycottnovellAug 29 22:01
*_Goblin_ ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 29 22:03
twitter1this network sucks.  ssh seems to be blocked.Aug 29 22:06
schestowitzThe apache incident had ssh to blame... looke like negligenceAug 29 22:06
DaemonFChmmmmAug 29 22:06
schestowitz 29 22:06
DaemonFCFoobar2000 takes less RAM to play Vorbis than MP3 actuallyAug 29 22:06
DaemonFC30 megsAug 29 22:07
twitter1I never use keys, always password authorization.Aug 29 22:07
twitter1interesting that should happen one day before I complain about ssh blockage.Aug 29 22:07
ziggyfishDaemonFC: Linux version = ???Aug 29 22:07
DaemonFCnopeAug 29 22:07
DaemonFCit mostly runs in WineAug 29 22:08
twitter1I'll have to see about listening on a non standard port.Aug 29 22:08
DaemonFCthe parts that don't are because of limitations in WineAug 29 22:08
twitter1When I signed onto this network, it mentioned something about the owner's "right" to monitor my traffic in any way.  That's fine, so long as I can encrypt my traffic.Aug 29 22:08
twitter1"Let them eat static."Aug 29 22:09
ziggyfishDaemonFC: it's useless to me then :PAug 29 22:09
DaemonFCmehAug 29 22:09
DaemonFCit's one of the better music players/encoders out thereAug 29 22:09
MinceRtwitter1: make sure you check the ssh key fingerprint then. :>Aug 29 22:10
DaemonFCthe only thing that just flat out doesn't work on Linux at all is MP3 encoding with LAMEAug 29 22:10
twitter1What do you mean MinceR?Aug 29 22:10
MinceRssh checks the public key if it knows it already; but if none of these checks happen, then you could be the subject of an MITM attackAug 29 22:10
twitter1ah yes, that's rightAug 29 22:10
DaemonFCAAC encoding with Nero and Ogg Vorbis encoding with AoTuv both workAug 29 22:10
twitter1OpenSSH does that.Aug 29 22:10
DaemonFCit can also use the Windows Flac encoder just fineAug 29 22:11
twitter1gives me a big fat warning and dumps the session when something changes.Aug 29 22:11
DaemonFCthat particular issue is likely a bug in LAMEAug 29 22:11
ziggyfishDaemonFC: not saying it isn't good,Aug 29 22:12
twitter1ziggyfish, you would be better off not listening to devils and demonsAug 29 22:12
ziggyfishtwitter1: lolAug 29 22:12
DaemonFCit can encode to just about any format that has a command line encoderAug 29 22:12
DaemonFCand it has tons of extensionsAug 29 22:13
_Goblin_DaemonFC why do you come here when you are the only one loving Windows?Aug 29 22:13
_Goblin_wouldnt be a better place to hang out.Aug 29 22:13
DaemonFCI even worked out a set of commands to let it hook into the Windows Media encoder through a VBS scriptAug 29 22:13
_Goblin_lolAug 29 22:14
ziggyfishDaemonFC: I'm just saying I use Linux exclusively, so for me to use that I would have to buy Windows and I don't want to do thatAug 29 22:14
_Goblin_nobody doesAug 29 22:14
DaemonFCI don't buy itAug 29 22:14
_Goblin_thats going to be 7s problem...nobody wants to pay for it.Aug 29 22:14
DaemonFCthey dump license keys on me for more products of theirs than I even care aboutAug 29 22:14
DaemonFCI give away license keys I don't have a use forAug 29 22:15
_Goblin_wow.....and no thanks.Aug 29 22:15
twitter1Hi, DeamonFC.  I thought the M$ people were busy harassing you with homophobic comments on your blogs.Aug 29 22:15
twitter1I can believe they were.Aug 29 22:15
_Goblin_whats Daemons blog url?Aug 29 22:16
DaemonFCI strongly suspect that was either them or ComcastAug 29 22:16
twitter1I'm not sure anymore, but I saved the youtube clip.Aug 29 22:16
DaemonFCI haven't actually given either of them a reason to like meAug 29 22:16
twitter1Other than promoting windows here?Aug 29 22:16
DaemonFCpromoting?Aug 29 22:17
_Goblin_yepAug 29 22:17
_Goblin_badlyAug 29 22:17
twitter1Tirelessly mentioning how great it is.  Posting screenshots of Vista.  That kind of promoting.Aug 29 22:17
ziggyfishDaemonFC: what's your blogs URLAug 29 22:17
_Goblin_he'll ignore that oneAug 29 22:17
_Goblin_or change the subjectAug 29 22:18
_Goblin_lets see.....Aug 29 22:18
_Goblin_hello? Daemon???? URL please?Aug 29 22:18
*_goblin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Aug 29 22:19
_Goblin_at lastAug 29 22:19
*_Goblin_ is now known as _GoblinAug 29 22:19
_GoblinDaemonFC: You still here?Aug 29 22:19
_GoblinlolAug 29 22:19
DaemonFCI don't even have Vista installed on anything currently, actuallyAug 29 22:20
ziggyfishis that how we get rid of DaemonFC when we want to, just ask for his blog URLAug 29 22:20
DaemonFCand yes I am still hereAug 29 22:20
_Goblinthere you go ziggyfish......Aug 29 22:20
_Goblinhe changes the subjectAug 29 22:20
_Goblinor ignoresAug 29 22:20
ziggyfishDaemonFC: URL for blog = ???Aug 29 22:20
_Goblinor bothAug 29 22:20
_GoblinDaemonFC whats your URL?Aug 29 22:20
DaemonFC 29 22:20
DaemonFC:DAug 29 22:20
ziggyfishthank youAug 29 22:20
_Goblinsteady....we don't know yet if its his.Aug 29 22:21
_Goblinquick email to the author...Aug 29 22:21
twitter1that's what he's claimed before .... never thought to check, ha ha.Aug 29 22:21
ziggyfishit could be, he's got the same real name as the blogAug 29 22:22
_Goblinjust posted a comment on the latest article....Aug 29 22:22
_Goblingo on daemon....respond to it.Aug 29 22:23
twitter1I forgot to wish DaemonFC a happy Zazibar War day. 29 22:23
schestowitzNeutron Bomb < >Aug 29 22:24
_GoblinDaemonFC: Ive just posted a comment on your blog.....why not respond and prove its yours?Aug 29 22:24
schestowitz_Goblin: it's hisAug 29 22:26
schestowitzFor sureAug 29 22:26
schestowitzHe promotes Windows hereAug 29 22:26
schestowitzWhether for pay or notAug 29 22:26
schestowitzHe hardly touches LinuxAug 29 22:26
schestowitzJust MSDN membership, Microsoft freebies, alphas and stuffAug 29 22:26
_Goblinlol...Aug 29 22:27
_GoblinI'll keep that URL I think then...Aug 29 22:27
schestowitzHe likes talking about Linux... how it "doesn't work" and stiffAug 29 22:27
schestowitzThe reassurance and self-defense of one's preferenceAug 29 22:27
schestowitzReinforcing his own choicesAug 29 22:27 wonder he gets so many product keysAug 29 22:28
schestowitzHe's not a shill, I doubt it, but sometimes he gets annoyingly provocative (i.e. trolling)Aug 29 22:28
twitter1It's interesting that he does not back up his ownership of his blog.Aug 29 22:28
schestowitzHe must remember it's a pro-Linus siteAug 29 22:28
DaemonFC 29 22:28
schestowitzStop treating Linux like cheap WIndowsAug 29 22:28
schestowitzThen things will never crashAug 29 22:28
MinceRdo we really need to keep a troll around?Aug 29 22:28
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to _GoblinAug 29 22:29
ziggyfishtrueAug 29 22:29
_Goblinlol - thank you....nice blog you have there....Ill be visiting shortly to quote you on my articles...Aug 29 22:29
schestowitzI'll give Gob' op just in caseAug 29 22:29
_GoblinlolAug 29 22:29
_Goblinthanks but I think Mincer is the better choice....Aug 29 22:29
twitter1bblAug 29 22:29
DaemonFCI did use Linux pretty exclusively before I got a new computerAug 29 22:29
schestowitzNo, he's MADAug 29 22:29
DaemonFCthere was about 3 years where it's all I usedAug 29 22:29
MinceRnah, i'd kickban the troll calmly ;)Aug 29 22:30
*twitter1 has quit ("Leaving.")Aug 29 22:30
schestowitzIt's like giving a rifle to an 18-yo... kinda like the US military when I come to think of itAug 29 22:30
_Goblinand don't tell found MS and saw the light....Aug 29 22:30
_Goblin"I Love Linux but................."Aug 29 22:30
_Goblin"M$ is awfull but I love its products"Aug 29 22:30
schestowitz"I kow Linux"Aug 29 22:30
_Goblincommon disclaimers when telling lies.Aug 29 22:30
schestowitz"Look at my Linuxxxx skillzzz"Aug 29 22:30
schestowitzBut...Aug 29 22:30
ziggyfishDaemonFC: nice blog, but it's a bit depressing, are you trying to get people to commit suicide ?Aug 29 22:30
DaemonFCnot really, it's just that Wine doesn't run all the Windows software I useAug 29 22:30
schestowitz"Watch my screenshots.."Aug 29 22:31
_Goblinit runs more than XPMAug 29 22:31
schestowitz[shows Vista, Vista 7, offers MSDN keys...]Aug 29 22:31
ziggyfishthe colours are to greyAug 29 22:31
_Goblinespecially when DX is concerned.Aug 29 22:31
DaemonFCthat's slowly getting betterAug 29 22:31
_Goblinwhat XPM and DX?  Dont think DX support at all.Aug 29 22:31
DaemonFCI have my fingers crossed for Wine 1.2, which will be along presentlyAug 29 22:32
_GoblinI have my fingers crossed that Microsoft will be departing presently.Aug 29 22:32
DaemonFCunfortunately, distributions tend to use old versions and official versions and mangled versions of things that I use pretty heavilyAug 29 22:33
ziggyfish"Wine 1.1.28 finally supports installing SecuROM-infected games without crashing" even though the title is negative, I find this a good thing. Wine is getting betterAug 29 22:33
DaemonFCand to get it to do what you want almost always involves compiling it yourself and building your own packageAug 29 22:33
DaemonFCmedia encoders mostlyAug 29 22:33
DaemonFCthe reference libvorbis hasn't seen any significant inprovements since 1.1 was outAug 29 22:34
DaemonFCthey still use it thoughAug 29 22:34
ziggyfishDaemonFC: 9/10 websites offer packages for nightly buildsAug 29 22:34
DaemonFCthere's forks out there which are 10 times betterAug 29 22:34
DaemonFC(AoTuv)Aug 29 22:34
DaemonFCAoTuv gives source patches you can apply to the reference encoderAug 29 22:35
DaemonFCthe only binaries he posts are for WindowsAug 29 22:35
DaemonFCand Gstreamer uses its own plugins anywayAug 29 22:35
DaemonFCso you're going to have to come up with a shell script after you apply the diffs and compile the encoder yourselfAug 29 22:36
_Goblinjust thought Id check my version of Wine......Aug 29 22:36
ziggyfishDaemonFC: url for AoTuvAug 29 22:36
_Goblinyep...its .28Aug 29 22:36
DaemonFCand you can't use any of the nice GUI tools that come with your distributionAug 29 22:36
DaemonFC 29 22:36
_Goblinahhhh geocities...Aug 29 22:37
DaemonFCthat one guy is probably the only reason Vorbis is usefulAug 29 22:37
DaemonFCespecially at mid or low bitratesAug 29 22:37
schestowitzDOes MS have any major releases before Oct?Aug 29 22:37
schestowitzIf not, expect revenue to drop shrply againAug 29 22:37
schestowitzDouble digitAug 29 22:37 pretty much jsut rebranded AoTuv Beta 2 as libvorbis 1.1Aug 29 22:37
schestowitzAnd profit to sink bya  third againAug 29 22:38
DaemonFCbut that was years agoAug 29 22:38
schestowitz*by aAug 29 22:38
schestowitzVista 7 won't change itAug 29 22:38
DaemonFCand the reference encoder hasn't improved, quality wise, at allAug 29 22:38
_Goblinthats why that cut some fat......should impact on the next set of figures...Aug 29 22:38
DaemonFCeven though there are some pretty serious bugsAug 29 22:38
schestowitzToo cheap, too little, too late, people don't buy new PCsAug 29 22:38
schestowitzSoftware hardly wears outAug 29 22:38
schestowitzPeople use XP and LinuxAug 29 22:38
_GoblinRoy: Have you seen Lord Mandelsons article on p2P?Aug 29 22:38
ziggyfishDaemonFC: AoTuv has no Linux support (official support)Aug 29 22:38
DaemonFCright, but you can compile itAug 29 22:39
schestowitz_Goblin: I saw manyAug 29 22:39
schestowitzHe met that Geffen scumAug 29 22:39
DaemonFCso why don't distributions just do that?Aug 29 22:39
_Goblinits his Times articleAug 29 22:39
schestowitzThe ;'rich club' conspires against the peopleAug 29 22:39
_GoblinI think its today...Aug 29 22:39
_GoblinIve done a followup one....Aug 29 22:39
schestowitz"Lord" as in "oh lord, he's a sellout"Aug 29 22:39
schestowitz_Goblin: haven't gotten around to it yetAug 29 22:40
_GoblinLord Mandlebrot has some crackers......its a hoot.Aug 29 22:40
schestowitzBTW, don't let he demos derail the discussionAug 29 22:40
schestowitzThis is not about WIndows hereAug 29 22:40
_GoblinyepAug 29 22:40
DaemonFCthe RIAA and "partners" probably paid him for thatAug 29 22:40
schestowitzDeferred paymentAug 29 22:41
schestowitzPost-termAug 29 22:41
_Goblinmore likely F.A.C.TAug 29 22:41
schestowitzor favoursAug 29 22:41
schestowitzProtections and heAug 29 22:41
schestowitzProtections and helpAug 29 22:41
DaemonFCif Douglas Hogg had just used RIAA bribe money to clean his moat instead of taking it directly from public fundsAug 29 22:41
schestowitz"You give us x, we help you get elected in 2 years"Aug 29 22:41
DaemonFCthere never would have been a scandal on the newsAug 29 22:41
schestowitzBribery. FACT.Aug 29 22:41
schestowitzThe word FACT does give them some validityAug 29 22:42
schestowitzUnlike MAFIAAAug 29 22:42
DaemonFCwhy, you ask? Because the same kind of people who bribe on behalf of RIAA and MPAA control the cable news networks tooAug 29 22:42
DaemonFCso taking bribes from them is safeAug 29 22:42
schestowitzRIAA sounds like some Rifle associationAug 29 22:42
schestowitzNRAAug 29 22:42
schestowitzOr the Irish 'militias'Aug 29 22:42
_GoblinIts funny though....FACT claim that the DVD sellers are involved in human trafficking, whilst Lord Mandelbrot wants to remove online filesharers....surely he is simply driving the average file sharer into the hands of the criminal???Aug 29 22:42
schestowitzIRAAug 29 22:43
schestowitz_Goblin: yes, people swap 1s and 0s in many waysAug 29 22:43
schestowitzThey'll always find ways to share... well, infoAug 29 22:43
_Goblinif FACT are to believed, all of lifes ills are to be blamed on piracy...Aug 29 22:43
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schestowitz_Goblin: terrorism tooAug 29 22:44
_Goblinyep...all the hot potato's of crime....Aug 29 22:44
schestowitzBin Laden must be setting up his P2p international chainAug 29 22:44
schestowitzYou know, to fund bombs and planes through Madonna d/ls :-)Aug 29 22:44
ziggyfishlolAug 29 22:44
DaemonFCRIAA was saying law enforcement should get search warrants to investigate file sharers because they were likely running crack houses and prostitution rings tooAug 29 22:44
DaemonFC:DAug 29 22:44
DaemonFCI am seriousAug 29 22:44
schestowitzBT said VoIP promotes terror~1Aug 29 22:45
schestowitzThe only terrorists are FACTAug 29 22:45
schestowitzThey do so bydefintionAug 29 22:45
schestowitzThe use of intimidation for political goalsAug 29 22:45
schestowitzThat's FACTAug 29 22:45
schestowitzThat'\s MPAAAug 29 22:45
schestowitzRIAAAug 29 22:45
schestowitzTerroristsAug 29 22:45
_GoblinI think you give them too much credit......I would say ignorant trouble makers is more like it.Aug 29 22:45
schestowitzThey terrorise the government to change politicsAug 29 22:45
ziggyfishSomeone one said that Linux funds terrorists, but the same has also been said for WIndowsAug 29 22:46
_GoblinI also want to know how a comercially funded organization can have the ear of the government and the Police.Aug 29 22:46
schestowitz_Goblin: just turn the table on themAug 29 22:46
schestowitzHypocrisyAug 29 22:46
schestowitzThey want to control the WebAug 29 22:46
schestowitzAnd to maximise profitAug 29 22:46
schestowitzAs though it's all taken for grantedAug 29 22:46
schestowitzRemember laws exist to serve peopleAug 29 22:46
schestowitzNot billionaires from Beverly HillsAug 29 22:46
schestowitzPeople forgot thisAug 29 22:46
_GoblinStill, as I maintain, in UK law the act of downloading is not illegal, its simply the sharing of....people can alter their habbits accordingly.Aug 29 22:46
schestowitzOr miscomprehdn because of immense and overwhelming propagandaAug 29 22:47
_GoblinNG's, IRC are two where its the sharer not the downloader who comits the offence.Aug 29 22:47
schestowitzziggyfish: Windowsm fund racketeeringAug 29 22:47
schestowitzJust watch what Microsoft does to LinuxAug 29 22:47
schestowitzRICO Act applies hereAug 29 22:47
schestowitzPeople can 'smuggle' 1s and 0s.Aug 29 22:48
schestowitzScary, innit?Aug 29 22:48
schestowitzFOrget about plutonium.Aug 29 22:48
*Balrog has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Aug 29 22:54
*Balrog_ is now known as BalrogAug 29 22:54
_GoblinI'm going to going tomorrow & monday....Aug 29 22:59
_Goblin:(Aug 29 22:59
_Goblineveryone think of me as you enjoy your bank holiday weekend....Aug 29 23:00
_Goblinwon't be back until tuesday....Aug 29 23:00
_Goblinalthough I may get a little time sunday night....Aug 29 23:00
schestowitzMicrosoft tosses abandonware into pseudo-OSS: 29 23:04
schestowitzI forgot all about Bank HolidayAug 29 23:04
schestowitzThey need more holidays now too? :-) Are those bailouts (public looting) and bonuses not enough for them?Aug 29 23:05
_Goblineveryones on holiday but me :(Aug 29 23:06
ziggyfishschestowitz: it's the modern warAug 29 23:06
schestowitzMany wars are caused by financial interests at the topAug 29 23:10
schestowitzThey are just dressed up and marketed a little differentlyAug 29 23:11
schestowitzDomination of oil and power for example has little to do with ordinary people, who are mere clients of those who run the countryAug 29 23:11
schestowitzThey give you a rifle and a casket to go fight the "war for consumption"Aug 29 23:11
*seller_liar (i=c95c841f@gateway/web/freenode/x-fdnsicinmoalokzt) has joined #boycottnovellAug 29 23:13
seller_liarI was thinkingAug 29 23:13
seller_liarthe last strategy of trolls is to say " prove it"Aug 29 23:13
schestowitzExample?Aug 29 23:14
seller_liarof course , It's very hard to prove everything , but we can sayAug 29 23:14
seller_liarthere's a lot of evidenceAug 29 23:14
seller_liar"there's a lot of evidence "Aug 29 23:14
schestowitzEvidence can be proofAug 29 23:14
schestowitzTautological soemtimesAug 29 23:15
schestowitzIt's proven the world is roundAug 29 23:15
schestowitzBased on observationsAug 29 23:15
schestowitzI.e. evidenceAug 29 23:15
seller_liaryes ,exactlyAug 29 23:15
schestowitzLess so with maths although there are explanations that relate the law of physicsAug 29 23:15
schestowitzLike circulating of planet... they revolve.Aug 29 23:16
schestowitzAnd gravity makes objects roundAug 29 23:16
schestowitzLike atoms and their neurons surrounding the nucleus like a satelliteAug 29 23:16
schestowitzAs for Linux:Aug 29 23:16
schestowitzPeople may say, prove it fastrAug 29 23:16
schestowitzWell, we have benchmarksAug 29 23:16
schestowitzSo you can showAug 29 23:16
schestowitzThere's evidence for many thingsAug 29 23:17
schestowitzBN accumulates lots of evidenceAug 29 23:17
seller_liarYes , I knowAug 29 23:17
schestowitzBN has very little of those posts that just go, "I like Linux, Linux is cool, WIndows is kinds slow...etc.Aug 29 23:17
seller_liartrolls sometimes don t have more defenses and say " prove it"Aug 29 23:17
schestowitzThat's the type of crap that comes from ZDnet and CNETAug 29 23:17
schestowitz"Columnists"Aug 29 23:17
schestowitzaka Shills for saleAug 29 23:17
schestowitzYou can hire them for opinionsAug 29 23:17
schestowitzLike PR peopleAug 29 23:18
schestowitzNot evidence based. Marketing is never evidence basedAug 29 23:18
schestowitzThat's what makes it marketing Aug 29 23:18
schestowitzThere are marketing companies like IDC|IDC that are good at PRETENDING to give proofAug 29 23:19
schestowitzBut they are mouths for hireAug 29 23:19
schestowitzIt's marketingAug 29 23:19
MinceRone of those Cs should be a G, i guessAug 29 23:19
schestowitz-Gartner- Gangster Group tooAug 29 23:19
schestowitzEven academia gets increasingly corruptedAug 29 23:19
schestowitzMinceR: ayeAug 29 23:19
seller_liarYes , I knowAug 29 23:19
seller_liarI São Paulo ( the city)Aug 29 23:19
schestowitzNice placeAug 29 23:20
schestowitzCulture didn't die there, yetAug 29 23:20
seller_liarthere are a company called PRODAMAug 29 23:20
schestowitzAre the multinationals trying to turn you over to USian lifestyle?Aug 29 23:20
seller_liarPRODAM install windows in everything in são paulo prefectureAug 29 23:20
schestowitzCoke and xbox?Aug 29 23:20
seller_liarPRODAM is a government companyAug 29 23:20
schestowitzLike Cosco?Aug 29 23:21
seller_liarbut probably have a lot of "insiders"Aug 29 23:21
schestowitzOr what was its name?Aug 29 23:21
seller_liarCosco ? I don t knowAug 29 23:21
schestowitzContractors are a dodgy thingAug 29 23:21
schestowitzGOvrnment companies still run like a businessAug 29 23:21
seller_liarbut prodam is responsible for all IT in sao paulo prefectureAug 29 23:21
schestowitzCase of point here: NHS, BBC..Aug 29 23:21
schestowitzIT...Aug 29 23:22
schestowitzWhere did the execs come from/Aug 29 23:22
schestowitzObvious some IT companiesAug 29 23:22
schestowitzFind out the namesAug 29 23:22
schestowitzAlign themAug 29 23:22
schestowitzGoogle each oneAug 29 23:22
seller_liarPRODAm have lot of microsoft "foxies and insiders"Aug 29 23:22
schestowitzThen put a label of career historyAug 29 23:22
schestowitzAhAug 29 23:22
schestowitzthe "MSInsider|/"Fox"Aug 29 23:22
seller_liaryesAug 29 23:22
schestowitzMicrosoft Delta Team loves emAug 29 23:23
seller_liarEverything prodam install on prefecture is windows basedAug 29 23:23
schestowitzThey get free dinnerAug 29 23:23
schestowitzWho knows, maybe free prostitutes tooAug 29 23:23
seller_liarSao paulo city is doomed because prodamAug 29 23:23
schestowitzFind out names of insidersAug 29 23:23
schestowitzConflict of interetssAug 29 23:23
schestowitzThey can use chairs to buy from former employerAug 29 23:23
schestowitzANd thus be removedAug 29 23:23
_Goblinright I'm off....may see you all Sunday but most likely it won't be until tuesday....depends on how busy I am.....Aug 29 23:24
_Goblintake care all.Aug 29 23:24
*_Goblin has quit ("Ex-Chat")Aug 29 23:24
schestowitzIf you pass us the names of Microsoft insiders there, posts can be made just to explain who they are and what they doAug 29 23:24
schestowitzWe have those in the UK tooAug 29 23:24
seller_liarIt's not easy to remove a goverment employerAug 29 23:24
seller_liarbutAug 29 23:24
schestowitzShowing who they are just limits their ability to maneuverAug 29 23:24
schestowitzThey klnow they are being watchedAug 29 23:25
schestowitzseller_liar: not to removeAug 29 23:25
schestowitzTo explain to people who they areAug 29 23:25
schestowitzLike ZuckAug 29 23:25
schestowitzHe hates meAug 29 23:25
seller_liarwho is zuck ?Aug 29 23:25
schestowitzCause people find out easily who he servesAug 29 23:25
schestowitzZuck=top Microsoft lobbyistAug 29 23:25
schestowitzAnti-ODF, pro-sw pats in EuropeAug 29 23:25
schestowitzVery grotesque manAug 29 23:25
seller_liarare there some site about zuck?Aug 29 23:26
schestowitzBalmer's little helperAug 29 23:26
schestowitzseller_liar: sort ofAug 29 23:26
seller_liarfuck zuck hehehAug 29 23:26
schestowitz 29 23:26
seller_liarthanksAug 29 23:26
schestowitz 29 23:27
*DaemonFC ( has left #boycottnovellAug 29 23:27
schestowitzSo people see who he is very easilyAug 29 23:27
*Omar87 ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 29 23:33
*neighborlee (n=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovellAug 29 23:38
seller_liarsomeone know about the last ubuntu alpha?Aug 29 23:39
seller_liarhe contain more mono? or not?Aug 29 23:39
schestowitzSix months without X 29 23:43
schestowitzseller_liar: noAug 29 23:43
schestowitzSSH Key compromise takes offline - Update 2 < >Aug 29 23:44
schestowitzwhat's your take on GOOG, seller_liar ?Aug 29 23:44
seller_liarwhat?Aug 29 23:44
seller_liarAh, ok , I will search in google about thisAug 29 23:45
schestowitzUbuntu 9.10 are we ready? < >Aug 29 23:49
schestowitzseller_liar: no, I meant, "what do you make of Google's dominance?"Aug 29 23:50
schestowitzI bet is the main route for many down southAug 29 23:50
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schestowitzA year later, CodeWeavers urges free CrossOver users to pay up 29 23:51

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