IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 14th, 2009

-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft #BestBuy+ #OfficeDepot #Indoctrination #Collusion Leads to Big Backlash #gnu #linuxSep 14 00:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Economist Covers #Google 's #Linux -based Operating System 14 00:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Huntington #Indiana public #library Needs #GNU #Linux Redemption 14 00:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Economist Covers Google's Linux-based Operating System 14 00:04
schestowitztwitter api lagSep 14 00:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux as a Suitable Desktop Platform for Enterprises I recommend #kdeSep 14 00:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Excellent #Graphics Work Enters #Linux #Kernel Space 14 00:17
trmancoyesSep 14 00:22
trmancoit's been like that all afternoonSep 14 00:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #LXDE Adds a Wastebasket 14 00:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #KDE Goodies from Across the Web, More New #Developers 14 00:26
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another GNU/Linux Distribution Goes with #KDE 4.3.1 14 00:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #GNU #Linux Distribution Comes from the Philippines: #KahelOS 14 00:33
schestowitztrmanco: I keep thinking the software's brokenSep 14 00:34
schestowitzI'll get some sleepSep 14 00:34
schestowitzIt ought to be better laterSep 14 00:34
trmancohehSep 14 00:34
trmancognSep 14 00:41
schestowitzI'll give it another goSep 14 00:41
trmancoit's been like that for a whileSep 14 00:41
trmancomaybe it will only get fixed laterSep 14 00:41
trmancoon monday :-PSep 14 00:42
schestowitzidentica had issues last nightSep 14 00:42
schestowitzI keep blaming kde widgets for what I don't realise are service issues (remote)Sep 14 00:42
trmancoI don't use the widgetSep 14 00:42
trmancotry choqokSep 14 00:42
trmancothe name is weird, but the software is really goodSep 14 00:43
*trmanco is outSep 14 00:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat Takes on the Channel and #LatinAmerica 14 00:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux Runs on the #PS3 , Runs #Games 14 00:47
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Alan Turing apologises for Gordon Brown 14 00:48
ThistleWebthe name choquk is only weird if you're not trying to clear some flem at the time, otherwise it sounds perfectly fine. Seems to me they added an additional layer of functionality for those with coldsSep 14 00:48
ThistleWebchoqok*Sep 14 00:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Portable A/V #Devices to Run #Linux 14 00:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Palm Strikes Back with #Linux, #Android Grows Dominance 14 00:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Overview /Review of #EasyPeasy ( #eeeUbuntu ) 14 00:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Nokia to Permit #Phone Diversity on the #Linux Platform, Unlike #Symbian ...Sep 14 00:55
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cubezzzdid Ballmer testify in the Vista case?Sep 14 01:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Why does Microsoft have its name only printed in a tiny font at the bottom of is it ashamed? #microsoft #codeplex #fossSep 14 01:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] lol from Microsoft's code of conduct on the Codeplex of its rules is "Play Nice" how ironic. (IMO) #microsoftSep 14 01:16
zlgand twice in the very first line of text on the siteSep 14 01:16
_goblinyes, but I was meaning as a logo of sorts...Sep 14 01:17
_goblinwheres the flashy "proud" Microsoft logo?Sep 14 01:17
_goblinjust (C) 2006 - 2009 MicrosoftSep 14 01:17
zlg3 times, I guess they are not advertising MS as much,Sep 14 01:17
cubezzzbtw when someone gets a "windows refund" how big of a refund do they get?Sep 14 01:18
_goblinzlg: I think they finally understand how little good feeling there is towards them.Sep 14 01:18
_goblinzlg: or maybe they hope you won't know Codeplex is a Microsoft baby..Sep 14 01:18
zlgTheir terms of use do not tie you to any specific license, like the GPL they rely purely on copyright.Sep 14 01:20
twitterM$'s idea of play nice is, "What's ours is ours and what's yours is ours. (c)"Sep 14 01:21
_goblinzlg:  I was making fun of the fact that even the mainstream press say that Microsoft does not play nicely with others.....I was pointing out the irony.Sep 14 01:21
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cubezzzhmmm, coreboot on the cover of linux journal magazineSep 14 01:45
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DaemonFCTelling Gmail that Konqueror is IE or Firefox gets you a busted pageSep 14 03:29
DaemonFCtelling it Konqueror is Opera gets you one that worksSep 14 03:29
DaemonFCTelling it Konqueror is Konqueror gets you basic HTMLSep 14 03:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Smile for the FireStatus screenshots 14 03:35
DaemonFCschestowitz: Where does the Ethipian Review get their writers?Sep 14 03:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] sorry, last post included a link to the back end of my blog by accidentSep 14 04:07
_Hicham_try telling Gmail that it is DaemonFC-Browser and seeSep 14 04:17
DaemonFC_Hicham_: I should set it to tell Comcast that it's the world-famous "Blow Me" browserSep 14 04:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] New Blog Post - FireStatus – Great But WTF? 14 04:22
_Hicham_DaemonFC : so u r testing KDE ?Sep 14 04:26
zlgno, he's onto KFC now. :)Sep 14 04:29
_Hicham_and maybe FrysSep 14 04:40
*DaemonFC smacks _Hicham_ around a bit with Theo de RaadtSep 14 04:41
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_Hicham_DaemonFC : is there Konqueror with a Gecko backend ?Sep 14 04:45
DaemonFC_Hicham_: NoSep 14 05:00
DaemonFCThere's a Webkit KPart thoughSep 14 05:00
DaemonFCthat's not really complete/stable thoughSep 14 05:01
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: wellSep 14 05:01
Diablo-D3whats stupid is konq wont switch to webkit altogetherSep 14 05:01
Diablo-D3since webkit is a fork of khtml to begin withSep 14 05:01
DaemonFCDiablo-D3: I assume they will eventuallySep 14 05:01
Diablo-D3fucking politicsSep 14 05:01
Diablo-D3probably notSep 14 05:01
Diablo-D3kde is a dying projectSep 14 05:01
DaemonFCno it isn'tSep 14 05:01
DaemonFCthey're gaining active developers faster than Linux itselfSep 14 05:02
DaemonFCGNOME is farily primitive in comparison to KDE 4.3Sep 14 05:02
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DaemonFCit's going to take them a lot to slap together a "GNOME 3.0" that's betterSep 14 05:02
DaemonFCI doubt they'll do itSep 14 05:03
DaemonFCGNOME 3 will probably be GNOME 2 sprayed liberally with new car smellSep 14 05:03
DaemonFCI'm really not impressed with GNOME over the last 3 years/10 releasesSep 14 05:04
DaemonFCit's barely changed at allSep 14 05:04
Diablo-D3yes, and look at kdeSep 14 05:04
Diablo-D3its rapidly getting shittierSep 14 05:04
DaemonFCstill looks like it belongs in 1995Sep 14 05:04
DaemonFCHow is that?Sep 14 05:05
DaemonFCGNOME is busy dumbing down anything they can get ahold ofSep 14 05:05
Diablo-D3all eye candy, no usabilitySep 14 05:05
DaemonFCadding MonoSep 14 05:05
Diablo-D3kde is now the vista of linuxSep 14 05:05
DaemonFCand strangling your system with code bloatSep 14 05:05
Diablo-D3ugly as fuck, no way to fix it, and it uses a shitload of memorySep 14 05:05
DaemonFCMy system is using about as much memory as it was wit hGNOMESep 14 05:06
DaemonFCit just works betterSep 14 05:06
DaemonFCGNOME assumes that everyone that walks up to the computer is an idiotSep 14 05:07
Diablo-D3they arent?Sep 14 05:07
DaemonFCover the last 3 years, most of their work has been to damage existing featuresSep 14 05:07
Diablo-D3the desktop environment is not the destinationSep 14 05:07
Diablo-D3it should be as minimal and as easy to use as possibleSep 14 05:08
DaemonFCI booted up an old hard drive with Ubuntu 6.10 on itSep 14 05:08
DaemonFCand noticed I liked GNOME 2.18 better than GNOME 2.28Sep 14 05:08
_Hicham_DaemonFC the retardedSep 14 05:24
_Hicham_GNOME has good integration featuresSep 14 05:25
DaemonFCFailure is not an option, it's integrated into every copySep 14 05:26
_Hicham_what do u like about GNOME 2.18 ?Sep 14 05:27
ThistleWebthere's a difference between assuming everyone is an idiot, and assuming that most people don't care about the nuts and bolts of their PC, and just want to use it, so decent defaults work just fineSep 14 05:28
ThistleWebpeople like us have PC stuff as a hobby / job so we want to / need to know and be able to get into itSep 14 05:29
ThistleWebwe are not most usersSep 14 05:29
ThistleWebif you treat us as the default it will fail to gather any mainstream users who will benefit from itSep 14 05:30
_Hicham_plus, there is a lot of gconf front endsSep 14 05:30
_Hicham_if u are talking about tweakingSep 14 05:30
_Hicham_most settings stuff is in gconfSep 14 05:31
DaemonFC 14 05:31
DaemonFC"heci A wonderful example of a company throwing code over the wall, watching it get rejected, and then running away as fast as possible, all the while yelling over their shoulder, "it's required on all new systems, you will love it!" We don't, it sucks, either fix it up, or I am removing it."Sep 14 05:32
DaemonFClmaoSep 14 05:32
ThistleWebthat's where apple excel, they have a whole workflow thought through and make it easy and integrated to do long as you go their way, with their revenue stream stuffSep 14 05:32
ThistleWebany linux DE, WM or distro who follows that principle, but leave more flexability for the user in terms of services etc is a good thingSep 14 05:33
ThistleWebthe beauty of FOSS is choice, if you feel that Gnome thinks you're an idiot and you disagree, you can choose not to use itSep 14 05:36
ThistleWebalthough in this particular case, maybe Gnome knows you better than you'd like to admitSep 14 05:36
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_Hicham_the best thing DaemonFC knows to do is whineSep 14 05:40
_Hicham_over and over againSep 14 05:40
_Hicham_his favorite whining subjectsSep 14 05:40
_Hicham_GNU is not LinuxSep 14 05:41
_Hicham_Linux is a clone of UnixSep 14 05:41
_Hicham_never trolled about anything elseSep 14 05:41
Diablo-D3dudeSep 14 05:41
Diablo-D3if linux was a clone of unixSep 14 05:41
Diablo-D3I'd probably hate solaris less by now =/Sep 14 05:41
ThistleWebinbetween bouts of encoding tourettesSep 14 05:41
ThistleWeboh, anyone been watching the SELF videos?Sep 14 05:42
_Hicham_that is what DaemonFC keep sayingSep 14 05:42
*Diablo-D3 is in a hate linux mood atmSep 14 05:42
_Hicham_one of his favorite subjects when he is out of his pillsSep 14 05:42
Diablo-D3BFS exposes what is apparently a bad fglrx bugSep 14 05:42
twitter1I missed this mega troll -> DaemonFC: if it works poorly on Windows, people may assume it works bad everywhereSep 14 05:42
Diablo-D3and radeonhd doesnt do 3D acceleration on my card yetSep 14 05:42
_Hicham_what are u using Diablo-D3 ?Sep 14 05:43
twitter1had the nerve to mention FF then dogged on free software for not "supporting" crap hardware from malicious makers.Sep 14 05:43
ThistleWebthere's one with an employee from SUN, on virtualbox and java development. He used open solaris as his demo platform, that was the first I'd seen itSep 14 05:43
ThistleWebcant remember his name nowSep 14 05:44
Diablo-D3_Hicham_: fglrxSep 14 05:44
twitter1People with working brains see a pattern.  When everything works poorly on Windows, they start to think Windows sucks.Sep 14 05:44
ThistleWebthere was another from Zonker, the open suse community manager, which despite my feelings for novell, I liked himSep 14 05:44
Diablo-D3_Hicham_: oh, you mean which card? a radeon 4850Sep 14 05:44
_Hicham_Diablo-D3 : radeon driver doesn't support it ?Sep 14 05:45
cubezzzI saw a lot of hardware not work on windows 2K that worked on previous versions of dozeSep 14 05:45
Diablo-D3_Hicham_: 2D only.Sep 14 05:45
twitter1As a rule, free software does work better even on Windows.  FireFox is a great example of that, as was Netscape before it.Sep 14 05:45
Diablo-D3_Hicham_: which, btw, is REALLY FUCKING FAST 2D.Sep 14 05:45
cubezzzbut really at the core of things, the hardware manufacturers have to give out programming docsSep 14 05:45
DaemonFCFirefox is practically a Windows program with a Linux portSep 14 05:45
_Hicham_on whis distro are u using BFS ?Sep 14 05:45
twitter1good development, software and hard work won't keep M$ from breaking things for you, so it's lots of extra work for nothing.Sep 14 05:45
cubezzzif they don't, then it's reverse-engineering timeSep 14 05:45
DaemonFCDebian's mass cleanup alone proved thatSep 14 05:45
Diablo-D3_Hicham_: debian, but obviously Im rolling my own kernelSep 14 05:46
twitter1Beyond one or two showcase applications like FF, porting to Windows is a waste of time.Sep 14 05:46
_Hicham_I agree with twitter1Sep 14 05:47
_Hicham_never port to WindowsSep 14 05:47
zlgexcept almost all FOSS is ported to MS.Sep 14 05:47
_Hicham_yesSep 14 05:47
zlgas it should be,Sep 14 05:47
twitter1It can be, but it happens less and less.Sep 14 05:47
twitter1It's better to spend the effort making free software better on it's own.  Free software users don't go back to Windows.Sep 14 05:48
twitter1and they should not.Sep 14 05:48
_Hicham_porting takes about 6 monthsSep 14 05:48
cubezzzyeah, that's like going from more freedom to less freedomSep 14 05:48
twitter1free software has better desktops now.Sep 14 05:48
_Hicham_In free software world, there is a lot of choiceSep 14 05:48
_Hicham_who doesn't like choice ?Sep 14 05:49
zlgI see it going from less freedom (foss only) to more freedom (foss or MS), that is more Freedom IMO.Sep 14 05:49
twitter1If you are careful about your hardware up front, your performance will be better with free software too.Sep 14 05:49
twitter1zlg, you are free to sleep on a bed of nails in prison if you want.Sep 14 05:50
cubezzzwith a concrete block on topSep 14 05:50
cubezzzj/kSep 14 05:50
zlgthats right, you are. and you are not free to tell me otherwiseSep 14 05:50
twitter1the freedom to chose slavery is not much of a win for freedom.Sep 14 05:50
DaemonFCtwitter1: You should make a Twitter GPLSep 14 05:50
DaemonFC"You can modify this code, it's here to respect your freedom, but you can't use it on Windows"Sep 14 05:51
cubezzzwell who's going to stop you? no oneSep 14 05:51
twitter1I would not tell people that.Sep 14 05:51
DaemonFCthat's not a contradiction is it?Sep 14 05:51
zlgthats samantics, so you really mean "your freedom" to dictate your requirements onto others.Sep 14 05:51
twitter1I will tell them it's a waste of time.Sep 14 05:51
_Hicham_yes, that would be a great licenseSep 14 05:51
cubezzzyou have the source code, you have the choiceSep 14 05:51
_Hicham_linking against proprietary libs forbiddenSep 14 05:51
twitter1but I don't really have to tell people that, it's obviousSep 14 05:52
DaemonFCso if a KDE developer or three wants to make a KDE for WindowsSep 14 05:52
DaemonFCit's their time and effortSep 14 05:52
DaemonFCnot yoursSep 14 05:52
DaemonFCso shut upSep 14 05:52
DaemonFC:)Sep 14 05:52
twitter1I don't think much time or effort will be wasted in the end.Sep 14 05:52
*DaemonFC waits for the twitter1 patch flow into the free software effortSep 14 05:53
*_Hicham_ thinks DaemonFC is looking for a troll subjectSep 14 05:53
DaemonFCany time nowSep 14 05:53
twitter1Despite tireless promotion by trolls, KDE for Windows is not going to draw a lot of effort.Sep 14 05:53
DaemonFCtwitter1 is a textbook armchair NaziSep 14 05:53
DaemonFCrooting from the bleachersSep 14 05:53
DaemonFCand booing from the bleachers tooSep 14 05:53
twitter1DaemonFC is trying to win friends and influence people.Sep 14 05:54
DaemonFCLinux and free software in general need more vicious trolls like twitter1Sep 14 05:54
DaemonFCto scare all the fish awaySep 14 05:54
DaemonFCyou knowSep 14 05:54
_Hicham_DaemonFC will never win a friendSep 14 05:54
*twitter1 ignores mega troll DaemonFC againSep 14 05:54
_Hicham_he doesn't like anybodySep 14 05:54
_Hicham_he doesn't even like himselfSep 14 05:54
EruaranIf KDE on Windows helps to expose KDE applications to Windows users, this is a good thing. For many people, the unfamiliarity of software on GNU/Linux is a major hurdle.Sep 14 05:54
twitter1Ubuntu and Mepis are better exposures.Sep 14 05:55
*DaemonFC exposes twitter1 to gamma radiationSep 14 05:55
DaemonFChow's that for exposure?Sep 14 05:55
zlgas long as their KDE for windows works, I tried it and every time it crashed, still does, people look at that and ask is this what FOSS is ?Sep 14 05:55
twitter1Young people are not afraid of free software and are getting off of Windows.Sep 14 05:55
twitter1Windows does not work for them, or anyone else.Sep 14 05:56
EruaranIt can be overwhelming for some people.Sep 14 05:56
DaemonFCtwitter1: Must be why everyone I know asks me what Linux isSep 14 05:56
DaemonFCand why they should give a shitSep 14 05:56
DaemonFCbecause it's so popularSep 14 05:56
DaemonFCface it, most people don't know what it is because it's not widespread and not heavily advertisedSep 14 05:57
twitter1Windows is overwhelming.  XP is awful on users.  Vista is worse and comes with huge changes.  It's easier for people to migrate to free software than Vista.Sep 14 05:57
twitter1Windows 7 is more of the sameSep 14 05:57
EruaranMaking it easier for people to change platforms without major upheaval with what applications they use is not a bad thing.Sep 14 05:58
twitter1Not even DaemonFC can suffer Vista.Sep 14 05:58
zlgTwtitter that may be your wish but its really not the case, Vista is very popular and Win7 look even better.Sep 14 05:58
twitter1Windows 7 can take up to 20 hours to install.Sep 14 05:58
twitter1It's complete upheaval.Sep 14 05:58
zlgjust saying it's crap does not make it so.Sep 14 05:58
DaemonFCtwitter1: Every word you speak is like having to endure Vista for an hourSep 14 05:58
EruaranIf you've had someone using Okular and a few other KDE apps for a few months on Windows, and they get spyware and viruses and they're fed up, its not so frightening for them to think of changing platforms when they realise they can still use the same applications.Sep 14 05:59
twitter1Vista 7 is an unprecedented disaster for M$.  I did not say it, everyone else did.Sep 14 05:59
zlgRubbish, I've installed Win 7 lots of time, never takes more than an hour.Sep 14 05:59
Diablo-D3last time I installed win 7 it took about a half hourSep 14 05:59
zlglike who said it ?Sep 14 05:59
DaemonFCtakes about half an hour on reaqsonable hardwareSep 14 05:59
twitter1everyone 14 05:59
DaemonFCyou won't haul out the Pentium 2 from 1998 that was jsut barely dragging along on FluxBoxSep 14 06:00
twitter1M$ came up with the install times.  Ars reported it.Sep 14 06:00
DaemonFCbut it should work on most systems out thereSep 14 06:00
ThistleWebthis is sad, considering what Roy and BN are trying to do, anyone popping in to ghost and watch us must be put off by the schoolyard level of conversation and pointless argumentsSep 14 06:00
zlgyou mean you said it on slashdot, ?Sep 14 06:00
EruaranWhat I'm finding with some people is that its not the desktop that's the problem. It doesn't matter if its Gnome or KDE.Sep 14 06:00
twitter1Read the log, zlg.  All I do is reference other people's writing.Sep 14 06:00
EruaranIts the applications.Sep 14 06:00
EruaranSome people dive in and love it.Sep 14 06:00
DaemonFCtwitter1: Cherry picking, I believe is the termSep 14 06:00
*ThistleWeb congratulates the adults for staying above the bickeringSep 14 06:00
zlgfrom slashdot, they are not biased at all im sure LOLSep 14 06:01
DaemonFCat least when I bitch about something, I've at least used itSep 14 06:01
twitter1no, I point to everyone.Sep 14 06:01
EruaranSome people are completely lost and quickly want to go back to Windows becuase they find all the unfamiliar applications overwhelming.Sep 14 06:01
DaemonFCand my bitching comes from experience in trying to get it to do something that should be obvious and easySep 14 06:01
DaemonFCbut becomes a three hour ordealSep 14 06:01
EruaranIts not wrong to try and make things easier for the person who finds this transition difficult.Sep 14 06:01
DaemonFCthat's how Linux is without a decent desktop environment like KDESep 14 06:01
twitter1That's mostly what happened to Vista.  That and Vista sucked eggs.Sep 14 06:01
twitter1Still does.Sep 14 06:01
DaemonFCGNOME is getting so backwards that using shell scrips is easier than using GNOME appsSep 14 06:01
twitter1Roy found a Lawyer complaining about it just today.Sep 14 06:02
DaemonFC*scriptsSep 14 06:02
ThistleWebpatheticSep 14 06:02
twitter1It took the poor guy six months to break down and buy laptops with XP on them.Sep 14 06:02
*ThistleWeb is bowing out until the IQ level of the channel raisesSep 14 06:02
twitter1Shame he did not know better than that.Sep 14 06:02
DaemonFCGNOME is definitely not the desktop you want to expose new users toSep 14 06:02
DaemonFCit's more like a practical joke gone horribly awrySep 14 06:03
zlgwatch out twitter your bias is showing.Sep 14 06:03
twitter1it's a consensus opinion.  I collected opinions from every major publication.Sep 14 06:04
DaemonFCI think GNOME set out to see jsut how badly they could fuck up and dumb down a GUI and still have people swearing by it after coming off of VistaSep 14 06:04
DaemonFCthat's what I thinkSep 14 06:04
zlgofcourse you did that in a completely balanced and unbiased way, to show both or all sides of the story right ?? (:D)Sep 14 06:05
DaemonFCI think Canonical should put GNOME on the back burnerSep 14 06:05
wallclimberEruaran, some people might feel lost and run back to Windows, but not all.  The trick is to help them prepare first. I haven't helped hundreds, but I've helped 25 or 30 people make the transition, and only a couple of them have gone back.  Most people are happy with the change.Sep 14 06:05
DaemonFCand start really pushing KDESep 14 06:05
DaemonFCShuttleworth mentioned the possibility last year in an interviewSep 14 06:05
twitter1Sure.  There's lots of ways to show people saying things like this 14 06:05
wallclimberThistleWeb, don't leave yet :)Sep 14 06:06
wallclimberHi twitter1!Sep 14 06:06
zlgyes, twitter if you troll the web enough you can find just about anything to support your opinion.Sep 14 06:06
twitter1and when people say things like this, " I hate Vista so much I want to cry. Bought a Vaio. The most useless $4k ever spent. It just will not join a sec-enabled network. ... I have nine macs!!!!!! I don't need another fucking mac. I just want ONE ARSING PC that isn't complete SHIT. ... Too late. It's going out the window. I can't put up with this sort of arse."Sep 14 06:06
ThistleWebhey wallclimberSep 14 06:06
twitter1I can be fair and balanced.Sep 14 06:06
zlgcan you ?? wow, I would not have guessedSep 14 06:07
wallclimberhi!  I'm up past my bedtime, trying out my new reading glasses you're still a little blurrySep 14 06:07
DaemonFCtwitter1: Vista doesn't want to start up, and when you get it running, it doesn't want to shut downSep 14 06:07
twitter1Sure, I just point to people who said the same things with less passion, like this 14 06:07
DaemonFCit's like a 15 year old car with 300,000 miles on the clockSep 14 06:07
ThistleWebwallclimber: that's not your glasses, that's me casting a spell over your monitorSep 14 06:08
DaemonFCI'm not saying it's great, YOU like putting words in my mouthSep 14 06:08
DaemonFCthat's what is going on hereSep 14 06:08
twitter1just follow the links to all the publications there.Sep 14 06:08
twitter1-> In 2007, PC Magazine, PC World, the Atlantic Monthly, ZDNet, the Independent, EWeek, ITWeek, Dvorak, CNet and Network World all agreed with 90% of IT managers in thinking that Vista should be avoided. ExtremeTech wrote Vista's obituary in 2008. This was followed by USA Today and Time, which called Microsoft an "empire in rapid decline". Even Dan Lyons sees, "a gloomy Vista for Microsoft."Sep 14 06:08
wallclimberso, ThistleWeb, do I need to sacrifice a chicken to break the spell?Sep 14 06:09
DaemonFCtwitter1: It just so happens that the best place to market a cure for Syphilis might be in a free clinicSep 14 06:09
DaemonFCjsut that people like you are too stupid to see the obviousSep 14 06:09
ThistleWebnah, but a Hogwarts home owl learning program would come in handySep 14 06:09
*ThistleWeb just finished the 7 Harry Potter novels.....againSep 14 06:10
wallclimberI know i have a wand around here somewhere, but i can't seeSep 14 06:10
DaemonFCthat's obviously why Canonical made it so easy to use WUBI and suchSep 14 06:10
*ThistleWeb is still in the kinda HP headspace lolSep 14 06:10
wallclimber(don't tell anyone, but i've read 'em all too...Sep 14 06:10
wallclimber)Sep 14 06:10
ThistleWeb\o/Sep 14 06:10
wallclimberDaemonFC, twitter is hardly a troll...Sep 14 06:11
DaemonFChe's the trolliest troll of TrollvilleSep 14 06:11
DaemonFCwhat are you talking about?Sep 14 06:11
wallclimberif twitter's a troll, then i guess we all areSep 14 06:11
zlghe does have very toll like tendenciesSep 14 06:11
twitter1you are welcome, zlg, to find a single article that's not written by M$ or some kind of Enderle like M$ mouthpiece who will tell you Vista was not a complete turd.Sep 14 06:11
DaemonFCwell, when you don't contribute anything except insulting Windows users and calling them namesSep 14 06:12
DaemonFCI suppose the world could do with a few less of those typesSep 14 06:12
twitter1Perhaps you could make the Vista Success Log.Sep 14 06:12
DaemonFCand a few more that are willing to be constructive and pragmaticSep 14 06:12
twitter1You can point to the Mojave Project!Sep 14 06:12
ThistleWebsometimes people don't realise how much of an idiot they're coming across as because they are too closeSep 14 06:12
DaemonFCI can point to twitter1 and say that's what happens when you smoke pot during pregnancySep 14 06:13
wallclimberDaemonFC, I've seen you insult and call people names plenty of timesSep 14 06:13
ThistleWebtoo involved in "winning" in front of the audienceSep 14 06:13
DaemonFCdon't get me wrong, he still has things to contribute to the worldSep 14 06:13
twitter1With a little Jedi magic, you can convince people that, "GNU/Linux, this is not the OS you are looking for."Sep 14 06:13
zlgill tell you it's not a turd, I owned an run an IT and Military Tech services company, I use Vista, and it never gives me a problem, neither did XP neither does Win 7Sep 14 06:13
wallclimberhe contributes a lot, as far as i can seeSep 14 06:13
twitter1thanks, wallclimberSep 14 06:13
wallclimberof course i can't see very far in these new glasses, but...Sep 14 06:13
DaemonFCwell, you only have to see as far as the end of your noseSep 14 06:14
wallclimberany time, glad to help outSep 14 06:14
ThistleWebsadly, it does not give a good impression to new peeps int he channel, all it does is confirm many suspicions, of children squablingSep 14 06:14
DaemonFCisn't that right twitter1?Sep 14 06:14
twitter1you must be special zlgSep 14 06:14
zlgI am :)Sep 14 06:14
twitter1People at West Point say they "minimize" Windows use.Sep 14 06:14
wallclimberwell, when i was a new peep it didn't discourage me,Sep 14 06:14
wallclimber(it worries me a little that i keep coming back here though :)Sep 14 06:15
DaemonFCwallclimber: There's people that see the bad apple and throw it into the ignore bin I guessSep 14 06:15
wallclimberwhat bad apple would that be?Sep 14 06:15
ThistleWeblike anywhere else, if you hang around long enough, you get used to the stench. After a while on a farm you don't notice the smell of bullshitSep 14 06:16
DaemonFCif this was medieval European war tactics, I'd suggest loading twitter1 onto a catapultSep 14 06:16
wallclimberone also learns to wear appropriate footwareSep 14 06:16
DaemonFCand flinging him over the fence and into Microsoft headquartersSep 14 06:16
DaemonFCjsut like a plague victimSep 14 06:16
ThistleWebwallclimber: yeah, otherwise you better get used to squidgy toesSep 14 06:16
DaemonFCtwitter1 represent, perfectly, the scourge of the public face of Linux, and more broadly, free softwareSep 14 06:17
wallclimber"squidgy toes" is a great visual...made me laughSep 14 06:17
DaemonFCevery bit as annoying, insulting, and condescending as a Mac fanboySep 14 06:17
wallclimberand DaemonFC, are you telling us that you are never " annoying, insulting, and condescending"???Sep 14 06:18
DaemonFCno, of course notSep 14 06:18
wallclimberlololololSep 14 06:18
DaemonFCdon't forget sarcasticSep 14 06:18
wallclimberok, i need better bootsSep 14 06:18
DaemonFCI love being sarcastic tooSep 14 06:18
wallclimberto tromp through the stuff DaemonFC's dropping in the barn yardSep 14 06:19
twitter1eh, nothing insulting here -> (09:56:37 PM) DaemonFC: twitter1 is a textbook armchair NaziSep 14 06:20
DaemonFCwell, you're an exceptionSep 14 06:20
twitter1"/ignore DaemonFC"Sep 14 06:20
DaemonFCyou're just a total contemptible asshole with no redeeming qualities whatsoeverSep 14 06:20
DaemonFCand have never made bones about itSep 14 06:20
wallclimberanyway, didn't mean to disrupt the conversation here, just wanted to see what was going on before heading for sleep...Sep 14 06:20
twitter1or right click the name on your favorite IRC client and the problem goes away.Sep 14 06:21
DaemonFCand on some level, I guess I respect thatSep 14 06:21
DaemonFC:PSep 14 06:21
wallclimbernite everyoneSep 14 06:21
twitter1nothing much is going onSep 14 06:21
twitter1sleep wellSep 14 06:21
wallclimber:)Sep 14 06:21
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ThistleWebanother way of putting this, is that when peeps walk into a slagging match that's already started, they don't care who started it or who's right, they just see 2 peeps slagging each other and are annoyed by bothSep 14 06:21
zlgyes, leave him alone, it's not his fault that he thinks that the only way he can get people to do exactly what he wants them to do is to give them no other options.Sep 14 06:23
DaemonFChe's an RMS clone, a GPL NaziSep 14 06:24
DaemonFCeven FreeBSD is in league with SatanSep 14 06:24
DaemonFCaccording to twitter1Sep 14 06:25
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DaemonFCnevermind the fact that Apple commandeered plenty of GPL and LGPL'd codeSep 14 06:25
DaemonFCand the GPL has been used to hoard code from public useSep 14 06:25
DaemonFCmuch more than the BSD licenseSep 14 06:25
DaemonFCthe FSF uses the GPL license as an anti-BSD clubSep 14 06:25
twitter1So, zlg, you are a Windows user?Sep 14 06:25
twitter1and you want free software people to make your life easier because Bill Gates could not?Sep 14 06:26
DaemonFCthe BSDs have done more to free up drivers than LinuxSep 14 06:26
MinceRDaemonFC: can't you stop trolling?Sep 14 06:26
DaemonFCLinux is willing to put in binary firmware blobs and sign NDAsSep 14 06:26
zlgI dont want free software to do anything for me,Sep 14 06:27
DaemonFCOpenBSD has worked productively towards convincing manufacturers to open their drivers in many casesSep 14 06:27
twitter1I thought you wanted a port of KDE to Windows.Sep 14 06:27
DaemonFCwhere Linux is perfectly content with everything depending on binary blobsSep 14 06:27
twitter1my mistake.  Windows is all you need.Sep 14 06:27
zlgthere allready is one.Sep 14 06:27
twitter1Are you using it?Sep 14 06:27
zlgno,Sep 14 06:27
twitter1and why are you here?Sep 14 06:27
zlgand so what if I was, it's free right.Sep 14 06:27
DaemonFCso OpenBSD more openly displays twitter1's "ideals", yet he continues to make baseless attacks and accusationsSep 14 06:28
DaemonFCit's a cult of FSFSep 14 06:28
twitter1Well, if you were using the KDE port to Windows, you might have something worth reporting.Sep 14 06:28
zlgI like quality software, and intelligent discuesion regarding that subject.Sep 14 06:28
zlgand "this side" of FOSS is interesting.Sep 14 06:29
DaemonFCwell, anyone who attacks BSD in favor of Linux on terms of "freeness" is a hypocriteSep 14 06:29
cubezzzI've used vista a few times, didn't like it, too slowSep 14 06:29
DaemonFCunless they strip Linux of about half its driversSep 14 06:29
twitter1If you like quality software and want to have an intelligent discussion, why don't you try using some free software?Sep 14 06:29
cubezzzwindows just gets more and more bloatedSep 14 06:29
zlgI have, and I do.Sep 14 06:29
twitter1Like what?Sep 14 06:30
zlgive been using linux for well over 15 years now,Sep 14 06:30
twitter1ut oh, this might be another Mutex nym.Sep 14 06:30
DaemonFCI would take this system over to FreeBSD if the 64-bit version of FreeBSD had Nvidia driversSep 14 06:30
cubezzzso zlg, what version would that be?Sep 14 06:30
DaemonFCit's not worth losing my nice video card for, but other than that, FreeBSD is a nice systemSep 14 06:30
cubezzzwhen you started 15 years agoSep 14 06:30
DaemonFCpretty much any package of consequence is in the Ports treeSep 14 06:31
twitter1What distribution do you use for your desktop now?Sep 14 06:31
DaemonFCit has WineSep 14 06:31
zlgI have all the CD's of them except the 1995 server it think i mostly used RH 7.1 here then.Sep 14 06:31
DaemonFCand there's the Linuxulator for Linux-only binary-only programsSep 14 06:31
DaemonFCso you basically have everything you need anywaySep 14 06:32
twitter1?Sep 14 06:32
DaemonFCzlg: What's insane is all the forksSep 14 06:33
DaemonFCand forks of forksSep 14 06:33
cubezzz15 years ago would be almost back to Linux 1.0Sep 14 06:33
DaemonFCthere's very little consistency between two distributions in many casesSep 14 06:33
zlgyes, that box was only used as our firewall and web server.Sep 14 06:34
DaemonFCthe obvious solution to the mess is to just use what pretty much everyone else does, which would be *buntuSep 14 06:34
DaemonFCdevelopers see that and only release DEB packagesSep 14 06:34
twitter1Even RMS used BSD for that kind of stuff 15 years ago.Sep 14 06:35
DaemonFCsometimes the DEB packages won't even isntall or run on DebianSep 14 06:35
twitter1I think he swapped over to gnu/linux for his personal page about 5 or 10 years ago.Sep 14 06:35
DaemonFCit's what you ask for when _every_ program and utility is a component maintained elsewhereSep 14 06:35
twitter1So what distribution are you using now and for what?Sep 14 06:36
DaemonFCFreeBSD is a complere OS in and of itself and doesn't really have the fork problem that Linux doesSep 14 06:36
cubezzzI didn't hear much about Linux myself until around 1998Sep 14 06:36
DaemonFC*completeSep 14 06:36
cubezzzor maybe a bit earlierSep 14 06:36
cubezzzlet me see what CDs I haveSep 14 06:36
DaemonFCdifferent distributions use different versions of all the core system packages in their Linux distributionSep 14 06:37
twitter1How can you forget your first gnu/linux install?Sep 14 06:37
DaemonFCsome patches are even self-maintained because Linus himself has said hell noSep 14 06:37
DaemonFCevery distro ends up having different bugs that only affect that distroSep 14 06:37
zlgbecause installing OS's is trivial.Sep 14 06:37
DaemonFCFreeBSD is kept in sync because it doesn't rely on anyone else for the core systemSep 14 06:38
twitter1Who's still using RH 7.3?Sep 14 06:38
DaemonFCnobody I'd hopeSep 14 06:38
zlgprobably less than are using windows meSep 14 06:39
twitter1they come from about the same time frame, but gnu/linux users upgradeSep 14 06:40
DaemonFCLinux users doSep 14 06:40
DaemonFCGNU users don't existSep 14 06:40
zlgi think it can be safely said ALL users upgradeSep 14 06:40
DaemonFCwhen there is a viable GNU OS using the HURD kernel, there will be an operating system called GNUSep 14 06:41
schestowitzzlg is mutex, I thinkSep 14 06:41
DaemonFCright now they just like to take a lot of credit and let everyone working on the kernel get their hands really dirty with all the hard stuff it seemsSep 14 06:41
twitter1thanks, Roy, he's full of it whoever he is.Sep 14 06:41
DaemonFCGNU would insist that if they brough 100 pieces to finish a 10,000 piece puzzle, that they made the puzzleSep 14 06:43
twitter1time for me to sleep, gnSep 14 06:43
DaemonFCwould sleep apnea be too much to hope for?Sep 14 06:43
DaemonFC:)Sep 14 06:43
DaemonFCthe Ubuntu Karmic branch is quieting down to get things settled for the Alpha 6 CD on ThursdaySep 14 06:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux as a #Firewall : #SmoothWall Introduction 14 06:47
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MinceRDaemonFC: so how many kinds of hw does linux support and how many does openbsd support?Sep 14 06:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FinancialTimes on Why #IntellectualMonopolies Ruin Our #Culture 14 06:56
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MinceRDaemonFC: also, if you think writing the userland part of an OS is so easy, why don't you write one of your own?Sep 14 07:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mono is a #Programming #PITA 14 07:05
MinceRyou can start with your libc implementation. :>Sep 14 07:07
DaemonFCMinceR: I would strongly suspect that nobody in this room would use OpenBSD or a Linux kernel with all the binary blobs and GLX stripped outSep 14 07:07
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DaemonFCsecondly, I didn't say it would be easy, but I'd use Linux even if HURD was declared stableSep 14 07:08
MinceRand that magically makes openbsd better?Sep 14 07:08
DaemonFCbecause turning on my computer and finding that nothing works is NOT very funSep 14 07:08
DaemonFCno, it just means that in the strictest sense of the word, it's "freedom"Sep 14 07:08
DaemonFCwhere most of what makes Linux work is notSep 14 07:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Sued Over #Halo 3 #Failures , Halo #Film Confirmed Cancelled 14 07:09
MinceRyou don't know what freedom isSep 14 07:09
MinceRalso, what makes you think that 1) GLX is non-free and 2) openbsd has a free GLX?Sep 14 07:09
DaemonFCI just find it amusing that people that depend heavily on binary firmware that the Linux developers signed NDAs to get bitch about binary blobs and proprietary softwareSep 14 07:10
DaemonFCit's so hypocriticalSep 14 07:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Windows #Mobile Shows Signs of Dying #winmo #ripSep 14 07:10
DaemonFCMinceR: I don't have a problem with GLX, the hippies at the FSF do apparentlySep 14 07:10
MinceRso you despise the FSF but take their word on what's free when it suits you and not when it doesn't?Sep 14 07:11
DaemonFCI booted up Gnewsense a while back for shits and gigglesSep 14 07:11
DaemonFCand almost nothing workedSep 14 07:11
DaemonFCeven GLX was goneSep 14 07:11
DaemonFCno, you're missing the pointSep 14 07:11
DaemonFCit's not ME that has an "ethical problem" about using itSep 14 07:12
MinceRalso, one has the right to use binary blobs and bitch about itSep 14 07:12
MinceRit's the only way to make some hw work currentlySep 14 07:12
DaemonFCit's like vegetarians bitching about meat eatersSep 14 07:12
MinceRand yet it restricts the freedom of the userSep 14 07:12
DaemonFCwhen combines kill free roaming animalsSep 14 07:12
DaemonFCthey just cherry pick the facts that suit themSep 14 07:12
DaemonFCand gloss over the nasty bits they don't want to be soSep 14 07:12
MinceRcherry-picking is exactly what you just didSep 14 07:12
DaemonFCMinceR: I'd say that anyone who claims to have a serious problem with it should really, honestly avoid themSep 14 07:13
DaemonFCnot pretend everything is OK while everything in their computer needs NDA-covered blobsSep 14 07:14
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MinceRso they should either be unable to use some of their hardware or pretend that this solution is the best possible one?Sep 14 07:15
DaemonFCin the end, depending on scores of binary blobs written in a closed room somewhere is almost just as bad as using WindowsSep 14 07:15
DaemonFCif you claim to have a problem with using proprietary softwareSep 14 07:15
MinceRor perhaps the zomg-free openbsd has free drivers for the same hw with the same capabilities? if so, why didn't you tell the linux developers to port those?Sep 14 07:15
DaemonFCI never said it didSep 14 07:16
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MinceRyou said openbsd was so much better than linux because it has free driversSep 14 07:16
DaemonFCI said the OpenBSD "philosophy" is the "free software philosophy" given more than just lip serviceSep 14 07:16
DaemonFCby FSF dronesSep 14 07:16
MinceRand then whined that nothing worked with gNewSenseSep 14 07:16
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DaemonFC*philosophySep 14 07:16
MinceRyou're applying different standards to openbsd and linux just because it suits your argumentSep 14 07:16
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DaemonFCnopeSep 14 07:17
DaemonFCOpenBSD has not, does not, and will not ever officially sanction blobsSep 14 07:17
DaemonFCFSF just gives you a script to rip them out of Linux after the factSep 14 07:17
MinceRand thus it will not ever support hardware that needs blobsSep 14 07:17
MinceRjust like Linux LibreSep 14 07:17
MinceRor gNewSenseSep 14 07:18
MinceRyet somehow openbsd is holierSep 14 07:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Exploits #British #Depression to Get Kids #Addicted to Windows, Office 14 07:18
DaemonFCLinux "Libre" is not the official release of LinuxSep 14 07:18
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MinceRso what?Sep 14 07:18
DaemonFCthe official Linux does not give a shit about blobsSep 14 07:18
MinceRit's free software, anyone can fork itSep 14 07:18
MinceRalso, Linux is not a GNU projectSep 14 07:18
MinceRso don't give the FSF shit about what goes into LinuxSep 14 07:18
DaemonFCthey shouldn't be trying to rename it to act as if they own itSep 14 07:19
DaemonFCif they don't want to take flak for itSep 14 07:19
MinceRand if they did what you wanted, then you'd be here whining about how nothing works in linux and how everyone should just use vistaSep 14 07:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Becomes Desperate As #Vista7 Comes Near, But Carries on #Failing http://www.nillaby ...Sep 14 07:20
DaemonFCwell if nothing worked in Linux I would use VistaSep 14 07:20
DaemonFCI'm a pragmatic typeSep 14 07:20
DaemonFCI'm pointing out the hypocrisy of FSF dronesSep 14 07:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Lawyer Who Promotes #SoftwarePatents "HATES #Vista " 14 07:21
DaemonFCthat sign off on using Linux and GPL even though it's less freedom respecting than OpenBSDSep 14 07:21
DaemonFCusually it's not companies that use the BSD license to hoard code, it's the FSF and the Linux guys that use the GPL to hoard codeSep 14 07:22
DaemonFCas off as that sounds, companies give all kinds of patches back to the BSDsSep 14 07:22
DaemonFCbut FSF has sent threatening letters over GPL'd code being used in OpenBSDSep 14 07:22
MinceRso if you want to slag FSF, you become idealistic and accuse them for making Linux the way it is, despite them not doing soSep 14 07:23
MinceRand if you want to rave about *bsd, you just ignore everythingSep 14 07:23
DaemonFCthe free software model has shown that companies that fork usually end up with a maintainence nightmareSep 14 07:24
DaemonFCand maintaining the fork turns out to be more effort than cooperatingSep 14 07:24
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MinceRthe hypocrisy you're pointing out is your ownSep 14 07:24
MinceR082549 < DaemonFC> as off as that sounds, companies give all kinds of patches back to the BSDsSep 14 07:24
MinceRas opposed to Linux?Sep 14 07:25
DaemonFCdidn't say they don'tSep 14 07:25
MinceRwell, you didn't say anything that made senseSep 14 07:25
DaemonFCthe usual scare tactic of choice of FSF zombies is that BSD is evil because it lets you hoard codeSep 14 07:25
DaemonFCwhen it does nothing of the sortSep 14 07:25
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DaemonFCcompanies can and do make internal forks of GPL'd code all the timeSep 14 07:26
DaemonFCthe patches die with the company or when they stop using themSep 14 07:26
MinceRactually companies do hoard BSD codSep 14 07:27
MinceReSep 14 07:27
DaemonFCor get so far out of sync that they're useless anyway to the original projectSep 14 07:27
MinceRthere's crApple and m$ for 2 big examplesSep 14 07:27
DaemonFCKHTML vs WebkitSep 14 07:27
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DaemonFCApple provided a step by step on how to undermine the original project and take control of itSep 14 07:28
DaemonFCwhen they're using a GPL licenseSep 14 07:28
MinceRwhich makes GPL worse because you can't do the same with BSDL... oh wait, yes, you can!Sep 14 07:29
DaemonFCit never would have gotten that badSep 14 07:29
MinceRlolSep 14 07:29
DaemonFCbecause they wouldn't have hoarded it in private for a yearSep 14 07:29
MinceRyes, because bsd is holySep 14 07:29
DaemonFCand worked on it in secretSep 14 07:30
DaemonFCor released worthless undocumented megapatchesSep 14 07:30
MinceRand steve jobs shits rainbows?Sep 14 07:30
cubezzzI think history has shown the Linux way of doing things trumps the BSD waySep 14 07:31
cubezzzespecially since BSD is older, but Linux is more adoptedSep 14 07:32
DaemonFCin that it crashes more?Sep 14 07:32
DaemonFCin that perfectly good code that conflicts with GPL because RMS says so can't be adopted?Sep 14 07:32
cubezzzI've had uptimes over a yearSep 14 07:32
DaemonFCin that Linux reinvents a lot of wheels because of that?Sep 14 07:33
cubezzzLinux is by far the better desktopSep 14 07:33
DaemonFCFreeBSD has ZFS now with no effort required from FreeBSDSep 14 07:33
DaemonFCLinux has to commit developers to create a ZFS workalike, and you might have BtrFS this time next yearSep 14 07:33
zlgMAC OS/X is BSD, so would that be more popular than linux?Sep 14 07:34
cubezzzif all I was doing was server, I would use BSD, but Linux is better for general useSep 14 07:34
DaemonFCcubezzz: Only because it has more weight in the form of usersSep 14 07:34
DaemonFCand corporate sponsorshipsSep 14 07:34
DaemonFCI think FreeBSD is still managing quite wellSep 14 07:35
DaemonFCBSD license has gotten them more code than some greedy evil company has made off withSep 14 07:35
cubezzzI've got nothing against BSDSep 14 07:35
MinceRso why don't all the whiners go and use *bsd and leave us be?Sep 14 07:35
DaemonFCMinceR: One nonfree driver, actuallySep 14 07:36
DaemonFCno Nvidia driver for 64-bit FreeBSDSep 14 07:36
DaemonFCI had considered using a PAE kernel, but that has it's own problemsSep 14 07:36
MinceRproblems? but *bsd is perfect, isn't it?Sep 14 07:36
DaemonFCwell, like Linux, it's limited by whatever corporations decide to give itSep 14 07:37
DaemonFClike I said, Nvidia has more demand to create a Linux driverSep 14 07:37
MinceRall os-es are limited by whatever their developers decide to implementSep 14 07:37
DaemonFCLinux is popular because it's popularSep 14 07:37
DaemonFCnot because it's the better of the twoSep 14 07:38
DaemonFCand like Windows, even the unwilling are sometimes along for the rideSep 14 07:38
MinceRDaemonFC: btw, if nvidia creates a driver for 64bit freebsd, it won't be free softwareSep 14 07:38
DaemonFCso?Sep 14 07:38
MinceRso you still won't have any right to whineSep 14 07:38
DaemonFCI'm not the one with the problems about thatSep 14 07:38
MinceRapparently yes you areSep 14 07:38
MinceRalso, apparently you have a pretty bad memory :>Sep 14 07:39
cubezzzclearly the Linux license encourages code sharing more than the BSD license, that's why it's further aheadSep 14 07:39
DaemonFCno, Linux users who bitch about binary blobs are what I'm complaining about here :)Sep 14 07:39
cubezzzdespite the fact BSD is olderSep 14 07:39
DaemonFCthere might be a drop of soup in their bowl of fliesSep 14 07:39
DaemonFCsomewhereSep 14 07:39
MinceRDaemonFC: see what i said about blobs earlier.Sep 14 07:39
DaemonFCbut they'll tell you it's a bowl full of soupSep 14 07:39
MinceRwill you say the bowl isn't full if you take the fly out?Sep 14 07:40
DaemonFCwell, making one compromise is like a fly in a bowl otherwise full of soupSep 14 07:40
MinceRexcept no, it isn'tSep 14 07:40
MinceRand gNewSense and Linux Libre are proofs of thatSep 14 07:40
DaemonFCthey're pointlessSep 14 07:41
cubezzzif you want to completely avoid binary blobs you can, that's the beauty of LinuxSep 14 07:41
DaemonFCnobody except RMS and a few zombies use themSep 14 07:41
MinceRso your earlier whine about the FSF was pointless tooSep 14 07:42
MinceRin exactly the same waySep 14 07:42
MinceRand for the exact same reasonsSep 14 07:42
DaemonFCwhat I'm saying is that they have no right to complain unless they pained themselves to totalyl avoid any blobbed components in their entire systemSep 14 07:43
DaemonFConce they use even one, they've lost the bitching rightsSep 14 07:43
MinceRtherefore they have the right to complainSep 14 07:43
DaemonFCthey want to have cake and eat it tooSep 14 07:43
zlgthe guy who threw his shoes at Bush is getting out of jail, no word on his medel yet.Sep 14 07:43
cubezzzwho's complaining?Sep 14 07:43
MinceR(notwithstanding the fact that they'd have the right to complain even if they did use blobs)Sep 14 07:43
DaemonFCit's like saying meat eaters are murderers while I chow down on a few steaksSep 14 07:44
DaemonFCmaybe you eat meat and think nothing of it and find me to be quite insaneSep 14 07:44
DaemonFCand hypocritical for telling you you're a meat loving murdererSep 14 07:45
DaemonFCwhile I pardon myself for every biteSep 14 07:45
DaemonFCthat's what I'm getting atSep 14 07:45
DaemonFCthe FSF zombies are like meat eating "vegetarians" telling everyone else that they're the evil onesSep 14 07:45
DaemonFCI really have yet to see anyone with a desktop computer that's fully functional without blobsSep 14 07:46
DaemonFCmuch less a laptopSep 14 07:46
zlghay If i did not eat meat, and everyone else in the world stopped eating meat, all the farmers who just lost their market for cows, would go out and shoot them, at least meat eaters gives cows a short lifeSep 14 07:46
zlgvegoes, would prefer they had NO life.Sep 14 07:47
cubezzzumm milk production?Sep 14 07:47
DaemonFCI mean, I know they're out thereSep 14 07:47
cubezzz;-)Sep 14 07:47
DaemonFCbut their like an albino tigerSep 14 07:47
DaemonFCmaybe 1 out of every 1,000 FSF zombies truly has such a systemSep 14 07:47
DaemonFC*they'reSep 14 07:47
DaemonFCthe rest are posers telling me *I* need to change my evil waysSep 14 07:48
DaemonFCMinceR: Just like the annoying pushy vegetarian, maybe I respond better to criticism if the person criticizing holds themselves to the same high standards they are asking of meSep 14 07:49
DaemonFCmaybe I find them to be an annoying clueless idiot anyway, but I can respect that they actually live up to their own benchmarkSep 14 07:49
zlgif they do,Sep 14 07:49
DaemonFCexactlySep 14 07:49
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DaemonFCit's like the pastor of a church that's hooking up to do a line of cocaine off amale prostitute's ass every Sunday eveningSep 14 07:51
DaemonFCis how I see these anti-blob people that use blobsSep 14 07:51
DaemonFCeven if the guy really is practicing what he's preaching, I still don't like him, but at least he's genuine, in his own waySep 14 07:51
DaemonFCMinceR: If you say "I use blobs, but I don't like blobs, and I'll stop using them when the hardware doesn't need them anymore", that's understandableSep 14 07:54
DaemonFCsaying "I don't use blobs, and HOW DARE you!?" while you really are using blobsSep 14 07:55
DaemonFCthat's not OKSep 14 07:55
DaemonFCsaying "I don't use blobs and here look, my hardware doesn't need them" is OKSep 14 07:56
DaemonFCit's just that I think there's a lot of people that use them and still claim to have only free software because blobs are taboo or because they use Ubuntu or something and don't understand that there's a lot of binary blobs and miscellanous crap in the kernel they so loveSep 14 07:57
DaemonFCthe fact that there are blobs all over the place and instructions on how to assemble a blob-free PC contribute to the problem, MinceRSep 14 07:58
DaemonFC*no instructionsSep 14 07:58
DaemonFCuntil that happens, everyone can knock themselves out with Blobuntu and Blobdora and BlobdrivaSep 14 07:59
DaemonFC:PSep 14 07:59
DaemonFCthe FSF should keep a list of hardware that is blob-free and keep it current (not something they are well known for)Sep 14 08:00
cubezzzw00t, got lynx working on zaurusSep 14 08:01
DaemonFCand then Gnewsense may have a system that it can boot on and not feel like it was just Ubuntu ripped to shredsSep 14 08:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] b3ta readers appear to be everywhere 14 08:02
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DaemonFCif the blob free components were a reasonably priced and easy way to make a reasonably fast blob-free system, I'd totally rip all the blobs outSep 14 08:02
DaemonFCfaster than you can say "Blob's your uncle"Sep 14 08:02
cubezzzI'm blob free on zaurus, at least I think I amSep 14 08:04
DaemonFC 14 08:07
DaemonFCBlobs aren't a good thing, you should avoid blob where you can, blob may do bad things, and blob can't be auditedSep 14 08:07
DaemonFCBlobs are also quite common, most hardware needs blobsSep 14 08:08
DaemonFCinstead of eliminating blob, just try to minimize the blob presenceSep 14 08:08
DaemonFC 14 08:09
cubezzzthe net isn't too lynx friendlySep 14 08:09
DaemonFCI used to use lynx quite a bitSep 14 08:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @picturecool o noez GURL O_O 14 08:10
cubezzzstuff that hides in flash for exampleSep 14 08:10
DaemonFCback when the net was mostly just text anywaySep 14 08:10
cubezzzwell, the net is really full of a lot of crudSep 14 08:12
cubezzzflash hidding stuff, microsoft only web pages, etcSep 14 08:12
cubezzzit's been years since I've tried to surf the net with lynxSep 14 08:13
cubezzzI'm only doing it now because I got the zaurus to play around withSep 14 08:13
DaemonFCcubezzz: Other browsers mimic MSIE crapSep 14 08:14
DaemonFCit's the only way to get a lot of pages to loadSep 14 08:14
DaemonFCbut on the other hand, the weight of standard compliant browsers has been tugging on IE latelySep 14 08:15
DaemonFCfor example, IE 8's CSS support no longer sucksSep 14 08:15
DaemonFCMicrosoft is trying to pollute the web in other ways now anywaySep 14 08:15
DaemonFClike SilverBlightSep 14 08:15
cubezzzthere's a blog entry there somewhere :)Sep 14 08:16
DaemonFCcubezzz: I hate MSIE, but it's nowhere near as bad as it used to beSep 14 08:16
DaemonFCMicrosfot is trying to mimic the hell out of Firefox but failing spectacularly in most waysSep 14 08:16
cubezzzyeah but I still want to use lynx :)Sep 14 08:17
DaemonFClike, giving a shit about extensibility (the kind that benefits the user, like Adblock Plus and BugMeNot)Sep 14 08:17
cubezzzwikipedia isn't too bad on lynxSep 14 08:18
cubezzzand, that's 2 web pages that work :-PSep 14 08:18
DaemonFCWikipedia fails on Lynx for two main reasonsSep 14 08:19
DaemonFCimages that actually complement the articleSep 14 08:19
DaemonFCOgg Vorbis media that complements the articleSep 14 08:19
DaemonFC*complimentSep 14 08:19
DaemonFCugghSep 14 08:20
*DaemonFC is getting tiredSep 14 08:20
DaemonFCcubezzz: a good ad blocker will stop most of the exploitative crapSep 14 08:21
DaemonFCbeats browsing in text onlySep 14 08:22
DaemonFCreally saves your ass if you are on dial upSep 14 08:22
cubezzzwell, slashdot is a bit of a problemSep 14 08:23
cubezzzno javascript on lynx I don't thinkSep 14 08:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Because journalism isn't dying fast enough: news failsSep 14 08:28
cubezzzwell, it's viable it a pinch, I wouldn't want to surf the net using lynxSep 14 08:29
cubezzzjust too lynx unfriendlySep 14 08:29
DaemonFCno, lynx just parses the HTMLSep 14 08:29
schestowitzDaemonFC: interesting. 14 08:44
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DaemonFCschestowitz: Big Momma CassSep 14 08:45
DaemonFCHam SandwichSep 14 08:45
DaemonFC:)Sep 14 08:45
DaemonFCCharlie Sheen is a 9/11 Truther?Sep 14 08:49
DaemonFChehSep 14 08:49
*Disconnected (Remote host closed socket).Sep 14 08:55
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Sep 14 08:55:45 2009
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Sep 14 08:56:27 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovellSep 14 08:56
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Sep 14 08:56
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Fri Jun 12 18:24:05 2009Sep 14 08:56
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelSep 14 08:56
*twitter ( has joined #boycottnovellSep 14 08:56
*Received a CTCP VERSION from freenode-connectSep 14 08:59
*#boycottnovell :[freenode-info] why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. 14 09:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Gah. Wake up a Windows XP machine after it's been down a short while. Too many apps wanting updates. Tedious.Sep 14 09:04
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trmancowtfSep 14 09:16
trmancoMcDonald's Certified Sandwich Engineer (MCSE)Sep 14 09:16
trmancoschestowitz: this one was a funny oneSep 14 09:16
trmancoLOLSep 14 09:16
trmanconice sigSep 14 09:16
DaemonFCMinesweeper Certified Solitaire ExpertSep 14 09:18
DaemonFCschestowitz: Any reason why the "official" KDE LiveCD is OpenSuse?Sep 14 09:19
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: suse is the only major distro left using kdeSep 14 09:20
DaemonFCnot trueSep 14 09:20
Diablo-D3who else is left?Sep 14 09:21
DaemonFCmost don't take sidesSep 14 09:21
DaemonFCthe ones that do usually default to KDESep 14 09:21
Diablo-D3ubuntu and debian both offer kde, neither default to itSep 14 09:21
DaemonFCMandriva defaults to KDESep 14 09:21
Diablo-D3(kubuntu is not a totally official ubuntu distro)Sep 14 09:21
DaemonFCSuse defaults to KDESep 14 09:21
Diablo-D3mandriva isnt major.Sep 14 09:21
DaemonFCKubuntu is officialSep 14 09:21
Diablo-D3kubuntu has too many politics associated with it to be 100% officialSep 14 09:22
DaemonFCso I'd say that KDE and GNOME are equally well supportedSep 14 09:22
DaemonFCSlackware only has KDESep 14 09:22
DaemonFCGNOME is entirely unofficialSep 14 09:22
DaemonFCArch doesn't care what you useSep 14 09:23
DaemonFCevery package is optionalSep 14 09:23
DaemonFCSabayon defaults to KDESep 14 09:23
DaemonFCGentoo doesn't give a shitSep 14 09:23
Diablo-D3gentoo, arch, and sabayon are not major distrosSep 14 09:23
DaemonFCFedora defaults to GNOME but KDE is equally well supportedSep 14 09:24
trmancoI like thos distros "that don't give a shit"Sep 14 09:24
DaemonFCeasily selectedSep 14 09:24
trmancothose*Sep 14 09:24
DaemonFCI'd say GNOME and KDE are roughly equalSep 14 09:24
DaemonFCin terms of usersSep 14 09:24
trmancokde in ubuntu is just as supported as gnome is , yesSep 14 09:24
Diablo-D3not reallySep 14 09:24
Diablo-D3trmanco: we're talking who goes with whatSep 14 09:24
Diablo-D3trmanco: all major distros do gnome by defaultSep 14 09:25
Diablo-D3kde is pretty much shit onSep 14 09:25
trmancodoesn't debian deafult to kde?Sep 14 09:25
DaemonFCdistrowatch page rankings don't countSep 14 09:25
DaemonFCthose are easily manipulatedSep 14 09:25
Diablo-D3trmanco: hell noSep 14 09:25
trmancohell no? they really don't know what they are missingSep 14 09:25
Diablo-D3trmanco: technically debian defaults to no X at all, but the desktop environment task in tasksel is gnome.Sep 14 09:25
trmancoah, it's like archSep 14 09:25
Diablo-D3no, arch is like debianSep 14 09:26
Diablo-D3debian is the second oldest distro that is still activeSep 14 09:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 14 09:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Runs Away from the Press After Trying to Have #GNU #Linux Sued by Proxy 14 09:35
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schestowitzDaemonFC: I think beineri did the live CD KDE LiveSep 14 09:37
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schestowitzDiablo-D3: KDE is fantasticSep 14 09:38
schestowitzTake your slurs somewhere else. KDE is fine.Sep 14 09:38
DaemonFCDiablo-D3: a little Kompetition is good for the soulSep 14 09:38
DaemonFClighten up :)Sep 14 09:38
schestowitzSlackware and many others like Mandriva use KDESep 14 09:38
Diablo-D3schestowitz: dude, if I wanted to have an ugly desktop, I'd run vistaSep 14 09:38
DaemonFCKDE is customizableSep 14 09:39
DaemonFCyou don't have to pick the default themeSep 14 09:39
DaemonFCyou can make it look like just about anything you wantSep 14 09:39
DaemonFCsame with GNOME to an extentSep 14 09:39
schestowitzKDE is anything you make of itSep 14 09:39
schestowitzYou could make it look like OS X, XP, Vista, anything..Sep 14 09:39
schestowitzAll down to the level of menus and artworkSep 14 09:40
DaemonFCschestowitz: The best XP knockoff I've made was with XFCE actuallySep 14 09:40
DaemonFCI got bored :)Sep 14 09:40
DaemonFCyeah, there's an OS X "transformation pack" floating around out there for GNOMESep 14 09:41
DaemonFCit's easy because OS X doesn't use anything GNOME can't handle, like built-in compositingSep 14 09:41
DaemonFCmaking a Windows Vista/7 clone out of GNOME would be difficultSep 14 09:42
DaemonFCI don't think you could get the glass effect quite rightSep 14 09:42
DaemonFCin any event,you'd be turning GNOME from a turd to a highly polished turdSep 14 09:43
DaemonFCjust like going from XP to 7Sep 14 09:43
DaemonFCthe compositor being tacked on after the fact was one of the things that really pissed me off about GNOMESep 14 09:44
schestowitzYesterday I looked at MSFT newsSep 14 09:44
schestowitzjust two headlines/articles about Vista, both of which negative. 12 about WIndows 7Sep 14 09:44
DaemonFCWine couldn't deal with Compiz in many casesSep 14 09:44
schestowitzThis is so funnySep 14 09:44
schestowitzVista is deadSep 14 09:44
schestowitzVIsta 7 just hypedSep 14 09:44
DaemonFCsometimes native Linux apps couldn't eitherSep 14 09:44
schestowitzLike vapourSep 14 09:44
DaemonFCall my programs work with KwinSep 14 09:44
DaemonFCschestowitz: I did manage to wipe out a copy of Vista todaySep 14 09:45
DaemonFCnot on my system, just a guy I know on Yahoo that lives near hereSep 14 09:46
DaemonFChis system got pwned and his Yahoo Messenger was sending out penis pill spamSep 14 09:46
DaemonFCall too commonSep 14 09:47
DaemonFCeven blocking out unknown contacts won't save you from someone's system getting pwned and spamming youSep 14 09:48
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DaemonFCschestowitz: re the Best Buy UnionSep 14 09:49
DaemonFCthe word union has management not knowing whether to shit or wind their wrist watchSep 14 09:50
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DaemonFCI wonder how they pulled that offSep 14 09:50
DaemonFCWalmart has union busters that get on a plane in Arkansas and fly out to the store where the union is trying to set upSep 14 09:50
DaemonFCschestowitz: If a worker asks about a union, you fire themSep 14 09:53
DaemonFCnot right away, and maybe not just "firing"Sep 14 09:54
DaemonFCthere's a number of ways to handle themSep 14 09:54
DaemonFCone way to get rid of a problematic employee is cutting their hoursSep 14 09:54
DaemonFCthe other way is to immediately start inventing things to write them up forSep 14 09:54
DaemonFCyou're told to answer the question they asked about a union truthfullySep 14 09:55
DaemonFCread that as "At Walmart Stores Inc., we don't believe that a union is necessary. You're encouraged to voice your concenrs straight to a member of management at any time."Sep 14 09:56
DaemonFC:)Sep 14 09:56
DaemonFCof course you can rephrase thatSep 14 09:56
DaemonFCit's the thought that countsSep 14 09:56
DaemonFC*concernsSep 14 09:56
DaemonFCthe key is not to not break the lawSep 14 09:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Eye on #Microsoft : Failures of #WindowsMobile , Windows #Vista , and #Vista7 14 09:57
DaemonFCit's to look like you didn't break the law when you're breaking the lawSep 14 09:57
DaemonFC 14 10:07
DaemonFC:PSep 14 10:07
DaemonFChmm, I can't find an autoscroll, but I can make the mouse wheel scroll 10 lines per clickSep 14 10:12
DaemonFCI guess that's the next best thingSep 14 10:12
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DaemonFCschestowitz: Ironically, my Windows Live Hotmail works better in Konqueror than Gmail doesSep 14 10:33
DaemonFCGmail is the one where shit is broken and it gives me browser not supported messagesSep 14 10:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft is Sued for Another Technical Failure in #Xbox360 14 10:34
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schestowitzre kDE bug report, it might be a site-side issueSep 14 11:21
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Brings to the #UnitedKingdom Its Equivalent of #EDGI or “Elevate (Addict) #America ” 14 12:10
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #NathanMyhrvold Connected to Father of #PatentTrolling , #RayNiro #microsoft #racketeeringSep 14 12:34
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why #India Should #Embargo #Microsoft Now That It Brings More of the #LiveEdu Ploy and #Bribes 14 13:30
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] No jobs yet, but the pimps are swarming. Which is good, I suppose.Sep 14 14:08
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ptheabstracthey there....i was wondering if anyone here has expertise in microsoft excel vba ....Sep 14 14:17
ptheabstractim trying to create a validated list from an array in my vba codeSep 14 14:18
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ptheabstract..if anyone could help me out ...a pm would be greatly appreciated thxSep 14 14:29
schestowitzHeySep 14 14:34
schestowitzWhy VBA here?Sep 14 14:34
Diablo-D3its a troll!Sep 14 14:35
ptheabstractlol where should i be looking?Sep 14 14:37
Diablo-D3try #perlSep 14 14:37
ptheabstractserious?Sep 14 14:37
Diablo-D3seriousSep 14 14:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] IMPORTANT: there is some SPAM service sending messages to everyone who is listed as my follower. It arrived through someone else. Ignore it.Sep 14 14:38
ptheabstractk fanksSep 14 14:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[d235j] @schestowitz are you sure your password wasn't compromised?Sep 14 14:45
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Comes #Antitrust : How #Microsoft Schemed to Destroy #Borland (Like It Did #Yahoo ) 14 14:59
schestowitz^^Wallclimber and I did this document which is not 'out there 'yet. It very nicely shows how Microsoft eliminates by poaching.Sep 14 15:00
wallclimberI am reading it now...interesting stuffSep 14 15:01
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @yoonkit Guys, beware of those twitter games like "playmobsterworld". They are spamming your followers! #1stwarningSep 14 15:08
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*Eruaran reads...Sep 14 15:20
EruaranOh BorlandSep 14 15:21
EruaranI always had a soft spot for BorlandSep 14 15:21
trmancoI used borland pascalSep 14 15:25
trmanco4 years agoSep 14 15:25
oiaohmborland was always custom this custom that.Sep 14 15:25
oiaohmSo making it a pain to port anywhere.Sep 14 15:25
oiaohmI wrote my first 3d game in Borland pascal for dos its basically useless these days I would have to majorally recode it.Sep 14 15:26
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trmancohehSep 14 15:29
trmancoI bet it was a pain in the ass to code it tooSep 14 15:29
EruaranWe used Borland's Turbo Pascal when I studied...Sep 14 15:30
wallclimberI just read this, thought i'd post it here just in case it hadn't been posted before: 14 15:30
wallclimberFormer Yahoo Inc. engineering vice president Eric Boyd is reportedly going to run Microsoft Corp.'s Silicon Valley ad business.Sep 14 15:30
wallclimberHe will join another former high-level Yahoo executive, Qi Lu, at MicrosoftSep 14 15:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Youtube, the best in quality, the worst in freedom.Sep 14 15:31
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DaemonFCschestowitz: Comcast guy came outSep 14 15:49
DaemonFCstill out checking the lineSep 14 15:49
DaemonFChe was interested in my system, so I spent a few minutes showing him around KubuntuSep 14 15:51
trmancodolphin is so great you can even play video and audio directly from itSep 14 15:54
DaemonFCyes, it supports anything you have codecs forSep 14 15:55
DaemonFCit's really not a dedicated player thoughSep 14 15:55
DaemonFCthat would be kind of coolSep 14 15:55
trmancothat's why kde should have a system wide EQSep 14 15:56
trmancobuilt into phononSep 14 15:56
DaemonFCan equalizer?Sep 14 15:56
DaemonFCwhy would you use one of those?Sep 14 15:56
trmancoyeahSep 14 15:56
oiaohmYou can trmanco its not hard.Sep 14 15:56
oiaohmJust send sound out threw jack.Sep 14 15:56
trmancocause my speaker suckSep 14 15:56
oiaohmYou can do what ever you like to it in there.Sep 14 15:56
trmancojack, hmmSep 14 15:57
trmancowill trySep 14 15:57
oiaohmjack audio is a pro audio mixing table.Sep 14 15:57
oiaohmTo be correct patch table.Sep 14 15:57
DaemonFCmy experience is the less layers between you and the sound system, the betterSep 14 15:57
oiaohmThat just happens to be a sound deamon.Sep 14 15:57
DaemonFCthe more layers you put up, the more problems you have and the harder it is to figure out whySep 14 15:57
oiaohmJack is lighter than pulseaudioSep 14 15:58
DaemonFCschestowitz: 14 15:58
DaemonFCoiaohm: I finally adjusted my Wordpress layout about a week agoSep 14 16:04
DaemonFCthis one is valid XHTMLSep 14 16:04
DaemonFCIE 8 can render it, IE 7 and earlier have problemsSep 14 16:04
DaemonFCoh wellSep 14 16:04
DaemonFCI'm tired of breaking compliant browsers to humor old versions of MSIESep 14 16:05
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DaemonFCOggDropXP actually works flawlessly in WineSep 14 16:10
DaemonFCI'm impressedSep 14 16:10
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trmancoXserver 1.7RC has been releasedSep 14 16:23
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schestowitzAfter Vista flop, Indian CIOs not open to new Windows < >Sep 14 16:36
schestowitzGood times for us...Sep 14 16:36
schestowitzI want to try ardourSep 14 16:37
DaemonFCschestowitz: I've heard of thatSep 14 16:37
schestowitzAfter that podcast from floss weekly I might try it... it uses Jack and it's very professionalSep 14 16:37
DaemonFCby name only though, don't know what it isSep 14 16:37
DaemonFCbut I heard it was good in passingSep 14 16:37
DaemonFChmmmSep 14 16:38
DaemonFClooks like Audacious on steroids with some professional featuresSep 14 16:38
schestowitzIT's differentSep 14 16:38
schestowitzHe explainedSep 14 16:38
schestowitzDifferent purposeSep 14 16:38
schestowitzAudacious=recorderSep 14 16:38
schestowitzArdour=multichannel processing machineSep 14 16:39
schestowitzIt's OS X- and Linux-onlySep 14 16:39
schestowitzHe explained why porting to WIndows is just asking for troubleSep 14 16:39
schestowitzBoxee was the sameSep 14 16:39
DaemonFCthat's a switch isn't it?Sep 14 16:39
schestowitzBut Boxee gave up to pressureSep 14 16:39
DaemonFCBoxee devs are incompetentSep 14 16:39
schestowitzNever tried it, dunnoSep 14 16:40
DaemonFC"We support Linux, as in the 32-bit version ONLY of Ubuntu"Sep 14 16:40
schestowitzYahoo Exchanges Stake For $150M 14 16:40
DaemonFCit's just another bullshit me too app from a developer that only knows that the 32-bit edition of Ubuntu existsSep 14 16:40
schestowitzEU Will Find a Way for Oracle to Keep MySQL, Observers Say < >Sep 14 16:43
DaemonFCschestowitz: I love it when I can not only add a program to Wine's AppDB, but give it an immediate Platinum rating tooSep 14 16:43
DaemonFCnice when things work out like thatSep 14 16:43
schestowitzNext important exhibit (just 1 to go!!) 14 16:44
DaemonFCschestowitz: How does porting to Windows create a problem for the Linux version?Sep 14 16:47
DaemonFCMost cross platform applications turn out jsut fineSep 14 16:47
DaemonFCin fact, it's often developers that have made a non-portable application that bitch and moan it seemsSep 14 16:48
DaemonFClike Google complaining about Linux after they made a very Windows-centric version of ChromeSep 14 16:48
DaemonFCany decent application should be portableSep 14 16:48
schestowitzI told you, listen to the audiocastSep 14 16:49
DaemonFCas fun as it can be to listen to someone whine about their own incompetence and blame everyone but themselves...Sep 14 16:50
DaemonFCIf it's such a big deal, I wonder why every other open source app has a Windoes versionSep 14 16:51
DaemonFCor why the VLC people cross compile it from within Linux and ask that others test it on Windows for themSep 14 16:51
MinceR:>Sep 14 16:51
MinceRit's because google sucks at software engineeringSep 14 16:51
DaemonFCit seems like a pretty non-issue if they haven't done anything grotesquely stupidSep 14 16:51
DaemonFC*WindowsSep 14 16:51
schestowitz" RT @dmahugh Interesting read, but do you know why blocks access from Microsoft? >> @thinkovation any thoughts on this? " 14 16:52
schestowitzA Look At The RIAA's Copyright Propaganda For Schools 14 16:53
schestowitzMinceR: it's because Google hired from MicrosoftSep 14 16:53
schestowitzAnd they develop with Windows-esque tools as a resultSep 14 16:53
MinceRthat explains a lotSep 14 16:53
MinceRbut why did they hire from m$?Sep 14 16:54
DaemonFC90% of the world uses Windows and they wanted Chrome done quicklySep 14 16:55
DaemonFCthey aren't too worried about stringing Linux users along for well over a year after the Windows version was releasedSep 14 16:55
DaemonFC*stringingSep 14 16:55
DaemonFCwow, I corrected myself on something I spelled rightSep 14 16:56
DaemonFCschestowitz: Does Konversation have a spell check anywhere?Sep 14 16:56
schestowitzLOL @ "recession"....downplaying the severity...: Labour 'must not lose its nerve' < >Sep 14 16:56
schestowitzDaemonFC: yesSep 14 16:57
schestowitzTook me a while to find it tooSep 14 16:57
DaemonFCWhere was it?Sep 14 16:57
schestowitzCOntext menu on then editable text pane, toggle auto-spellcheckSep 14 16:57
schestowitzSame in some other apps like the micro-blogging widgetSep 14 16:57
DaemonFCoh sweetSep 14 16:57
DaemonFCone right-click away the whole timeSep 14 16:57
DaemonFCand I was looking through the prefs, silly meSep 14 16:58
DaemonFCwhy would a preference be in the preferences menu?Sep 14 16:58
DaemonFCthat just makes way too much sense for this worldSep 14 16:58
DaemonFC:PSep 14 16:58
MinceRso they hired m$ staff to code a winblows app... how could it possibly go wrong? :>Sep 14 17:02
trmancoschestowitz: any news on knode's link wrapping problem?Sep 14 17:05
DaemonFCMinceR: They could have declared Crossover Chromium the official Linux buildSep 14 17:05
trmancoI just garbled a hole message because of that :|Sep 14 17:05
DaemonFCwhy spoil their perfect track record of using Wine to call it a Linux port?Sep 14 17:05
MinceRDaemonFC: which sucksSep 14 17:06
MinceRit uses windows' broken font renderingSep 14 17:06
schestowitzHmmmmm.. connection fails: 14 17:06
MinceRalso, paste by middle click doesn't work in itSep 14 17:06
DaemonFCI hate thatSep 14 17:07
DaemonFCI want autoscroll damn itSep 14 17:07
DaemonFC:PSep 14 17:07
MinceRthe right thing to do would have been to build on crossplatform librariesSep 14 17:07
MinceRQt, for exampleSep 14 17:07
schestowitztrmanco:oh, maybe it's worth filing a bug aboutSep 14 17:07
schestowitzI found a workaround myselfSep 14 17:07
schestowitzBut it's worth 'fixing'Sep 14 17:07
trmancoI can't find anything about it on bugs.kdeSep 14 17:07
schestowitzDepends on one's POVSep 14 17:07
schestowitzSome would say it's not a bug but a fixSep 14 17:07
DaemonFCMinceR: Opera is a better Linux program than Chrome will ever beSep 14 17:08
trmancoyeahSep 14 17:08
DaemonFCI'm pretty certain of thatSep 14 17:08
trmancoit just needs to detect links and not wrap themSep 14 17:08
schestowitztrmanco: so file a reportSep 14 17:08
schestowitzIt would help me too to have it sanely behaving in 4.4 :-)Sep 14 17:08
MinceRDaemonFC: i'll judge it after i've tried the Linux version of Iron :>Sep 14 17:08
DaemonFCMinceR: Will there be one?Sep 14 17:08
MinceRthere already isSep 14 17:09
DaemonFChmmmSep 14 17:09
DaemonFCdoes the ad blocker break the back button like it does on Windows?Sep 14 17:09
MinceRit's not a release, but it existsSep 14 17:09
MinceRno ideaSep 14 17:09
MinceR 14 17:09
MinceRlinked from 14 17:10
DaemonFCand my modem is still resettingSep 14 17:10
DaemonFChe said it might for a whileSep 14 17:10
trmancookSep 14 17:10
DaemonFCanyhow, bbl, yard workSep 14 17:10
DaemonFC:PSep 14 17:10
schestowitzVetting keeps our children safe 14 17:12
schestowitzDaemonFC: that's what the "Farmer" is for thenSep 14 17:12
schestowitzRussia builds own browser: IE, Firefox, Chrome? Unhappy with your Web Browser? Build Your Own! < >Sep 14 17:14
schestowitzIn Soviet Russia, browser adopts countrySep 14 17:14
schestowitzA Fortress City That Didn’t Come to Be Nice photoSep 14 17:16
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schestowitz"in 1997, it basically came to the point where I was going to kill the project, because it was growing so fast and my mailbox was filling up with suggestions, complaints, patches, all these things. Up until then, I had been doing everything myself. Someone would make a suggestion, send me a patch and I'd rewrite the patch the way I thought it should be done."Sep 14 17:17
schestowitz 14 17:17
schestowitzDefusing The Population Bomb < >Sep 14 17:19
satiperaI have not looked at Munich linux watch for quite a long while. Having just done so I see the last post was more than 2 months ago which is good news.  if you look at the site and go down 6 posts you will see a nice photo of Microsoft Jack and a link to one of his great stories. (last paragraph or so he is in full flow reference Munich Linux migration.Sep 14 17:20
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schestowitzHehe. Monty of mysql fame cites _Goblin. 14 17:22
schestowitzLOL 14 17:24
schestowitzIt's an anti-Linux site thoughSep 14 17:25
schestowitzDon't feed itSep 14 17:25
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schestowitz 14 17:29
schestowitz[17:22] <schestowitz> Hehe. Monty of mysql fame cites _Goblin. 14 17:29
schestowitz^ Hey, _goblinSep 14 17:29
schestowitz > "Religion is not the primary motivation of suicide bombers" Probably more to do with oppression and retaliation, disguised as "religion". Congo holocaust is not a religious warSep 14 17:33
schestowitzHow can we have confidence that the HMRC online tax return system is safe to use ? 14 17:34
schestowitz 14 17:35
Diablo-D3WOWSep 14 17:38
Diablo-D3wtfSep 14 17:38
Diablo-D3I went into yahoo games chessSep 14 17:38
Diablo-D3there is nobody in any of the roomsSep 14 17:38
Diablo-D3oh waitSep 14 17:39
Diablo-D3its just a display bugSep 14 17:39
Diablo-D3it says 0 but it really has lots of peopleSep 14 17:39
schestowitzMany people could play assisted with botsSep 14 17:40
schestowitzIt's not worth much playing with invisible peopleSep 14 17:40
schestowitz 14 17:41
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schestowitzNZ scientists identify giant, man-eating eagle < >Sep 14 17:51
schestowitz "One of Russia's commercial maritime trade routes for the past 70 years has been "re-opened" by a press hungry for dramatic Global Warming scare stories - but who failed to check the most basic facts."Sep 14 17:55
schestowitz""There's loud music blasted out until the early hours, loud screaming and shouting and taxis coming in and out at all hours," one neighbor told the New York Post. "Another neighbor went round to get them to turn it down, and she came back saying there were a lot of topless girls around the pool with just two or three guys.""Sep 14 17:58
schestowitz 14 17:58
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schestowitzHmmmmm.... 14 17:59
_goblinhi Roy!Sep 14 18:04
_goblinre: Monty...he's yet to print my replies....Sep 14 18:05
schestowitzI heard you had a fight with MontySep 14 18:06
schestowitzHe'll come to you house now and debug your family !!Sep 14 18:06
_goblinlol...still doesn't answer the question......whats in it for Microsoft?Sep 14 18:07
schestowitz$$Sep 14 18:07
schestowitz For those who vie for SciFi. < >Sep 14 18:09
schestowitzflex & bison brings back memories.......Sep 14 18:19
schestowitzYikes. EMC.... 14 18:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] A very nice guide to using your inherent British superpower of bloody-mindedness against bad shops 14 18:43
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_Hicham_Hi schestowitzSep 14 18:48
_Hicham_schestowitz the big manSep 14 18:48
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schestowitzRamble: "for me, BSD and Opensolaris are both looking like alternatives to Linux.." < >Sep 14 18:49
schestowitzHey, mighty _Hicham_Sep 14 18:49
schestowitzhitcham al akbarSep 14 18:49
schestowitzI have a good post coming WednesdaySep 14 18:50
schestowitzSome COmes stuffSep 14 18:50
_Hicham_first widely used educational c compiler is borlandSep 14 18:52
schestowitz 'If a logo works at 16px, you've cracked it'Sep 14 18:54
schestowitzfirst widely used Mono program is made by Microsoft followersSep 14 18:55
_Hicham_which is ?Sep 14 18:56
_Hicham_what is this famous program ?Sep 14 18:56
_Hicham_did i ever use it ?Sep 14 18:56
schestowitzProbably hello world or somethingSep 14 18:59
schestowitz 6 Unique Features That Make Opera 10 Stand OutSep 14 18:59
_Hicham_hello world is MonoSep 14 18:59
schestowitzMono was born in the hands of MSFT folksSep 14 18:59
_Hicham_*inSep 14 18:59
schestowitzHello# World#Sep 14 19:00
tessier_mysql is still using 100% of a whole cpu. So whatever query caching has been done still isn't working.Sep 14 19:00
tessier_Wish I knew more about wordpress.Sep 14 19:00
schestowitztessier_: it's in the front page of somethingSep 14 19:00
schestowitzLike Linux TodaySep 14 19:00
schestowitzThus the heavy loadSep 14 19:00
_Hicham_schestowitz : do u use opera ?Sep 14 19:00
schestowitzBut I don't know if it's not caching optimally.Sep 14 19:00
schestowitz_Hicham_: no..Sep 14 19:01
schestowitz_Hicham_: I try to discouraging people from using Opera if they can do FOSS and also make statements to have Opera become FOSSSep 14 19:02
_Hicham_maybe Opera will become foss one daySep 14 19:02
schestowitzOh, tessier_Sep 14 19:02
schestowitzI did find out that some pages are for some reason hogging resourcesSep 14 19:03
schestowitzI don't know what makes those pages unique, but there are a few of them that can take like 10 seconds to load.Sep 14 19:03
_Hicham_schestowitz : too much animations ?Sep 14 19:06
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schestowitzHere's a project for _Hicham_: Is ZipTie a good candidate for a fork? 14 19:09
schestowitz_Hicham_: no, something mysteriousSep 14 19:09
schestowitz 14 19:09
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schestowitzOpera 10 Review - Opera's Turn To Catch Up! < >Sep 14 19:13
schestowitzjono: I heard you use WIndows for Cuebase. Or is it wine?Sep 14 19:13
jonoschestowitz, I use a Mac and CubaseSep 14 19:14
_Hicham_Mac OS or just the hardware ?Sep 14 19:15
schestowitzjono: ah, didn't know it ran on MacsSep 14 19:17
jono_Hicham_, Mac OS and hardwareSep 14 19:17
jonoschestowitz, yeahSep 14 19:17
*schestowitz has jono's albumSep 14 19:17
jonoschestowitz, :)Sep 14 19:17
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goblinp2sorry for the clone...just testing a WebconvergerSep 14 19:20
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_Hicham_schestowitz the dangerous manSep 14 19:25
schestowitzMe? No.Sep 14 19:26
_Hicham_the most dangerous man on earthSep 14 19:26
schestowitzWhy?Sep 14 19:26
schestowitzObama is that personSep 14 19:26
schestowitzObama and his 'back'Sep 14 19:26
_Hicham_Obama is a cool personSep 14 19:26
schestowitzHeh.Sep 14 19:26
_Hicham_he said nice things to MuslimsSep 14 19:26
schestowitzWhat happens when expansionism is carried out at his behest of behalf?Sep 14 19:27
schestowitz_Hicham_: that's what he doesSep 14 19:27
schestowitzHe;s a spokesmanSep 14 19:27
schestowitzThe people who run the country are still the sameSep 14 19:27
schestowitzObama is like the Ramji of MicrosoftSep 14 19:28
schestowitzMicrosft does the racketeeringSep 14 19:28
schestowitzAnd the Geisha speaks all 'sweet'Sep 14 19:28
schestowitzPR 101 :-pSep 14 19:28
schestowitz_Hicham_: we need the US to be run by many 'Obamas'Sep 14 19:29
schestowitzKind of like The Matrix where everyone is Mr SmithSep 14 19:29
schestowitzOr Yankowich where everyone's the same..... "Yankowich  Yankowich  Yankowich ..."Sep 14 19:30
MinceRthat's Malkovich, isn't it?Sep 14 19:32
schestowitzYeah, I knew I got something wrongSep 14 19:32
schestowitz_Hicham_ would be better than Obama. Unlike Obama, he would sack all the cronies that occupy the White House, DOJ etc. even _after_ GWB had left (Obamabiden reappointed them)Sep 14 19:33
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schestowitzAll we need now are armies of phat-arse lobbyists to fund _Hicham_'s campaign. We all know, after all, that elections are run by the PR industry and those with a large pool of funding (favours to repay) get the Big Seat.Sep 14 19:34
schestowitz "Linux: Surprisingly unlike the old PS3 the PS3 slim has no Linux support/capabilities. I have no idea why they would take such a great feature out, maybe to reduce power consumption or something perhaps? If you want to install Linux on your PS3 and turn it into a personal home computer you are going to have to go buy an older model of the PS3."Sep 14 19:35
MinceRif you could choose anyone, why support a troll?Sep 14 19:37
schestowitzIt's banterSep 14 19:38
schestowitzGreenspan for President. Let's go with a  bankster :-p :-pSep 14 19:38
schestowitz NEC develops and manufactures mobile terminals for NTT DOCOMO, INC. andSep 14 19:40
schestowitzSoftBank Mobile Corp. that capitalize on the company's core competencies andSep 14 19:40
schestowitzincorporate wireless communications technologies such as W-CDMA (*1) and LTESep 14 19:40
schestowitz(*2), Linux (*3) platform development, low power consumption innovations andSep 14 19:41
schestowitzultra-thin technologies.Sep 14 19:41
schestowitzunquote^^Sep 14 19:41
schestowitz 14 19:41
schestowitzBig mergerSep 14 19:41
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schestowitzServer Makers Stomach the Worst Quarter in History < >Sep 14 19:42
schestowitzOracle is already causing damage to its rival (FUD): 14 19:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] REVIEW: Webconverger 5.5 #linux #foss #internetSep 14 20:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux Makes #Media Centres from Old Computers 14 20:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Vista7 Still Behind #GNU #Linux #KDE (and Not Even Out Yet) 14 20:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Failure in #WindowsXP Leads Way to #GNU #Linux 14 20:15
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_goblinJust been reading how to force a BSOD with a Python on 7 too!Sep 14 20:21
trmancoI person made a version of the smb2 exploit in javaSep 14 20:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Benchmarks of the New #Linux #Scheduler from #ConKolivas 14 20:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] I'd completely forgotten about #bing is anyone still using it? #microsoft #google #failSep 14 20:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] an ultra-simple Debian-based browser kiosk distro 14 20:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[nickballard] Att is beyond worthless.Sep 14 20:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Short Tour of #Gloobus 14 20:28
*Lns has quit ("Φ")Sep 14 20:28
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Review of #Arch #GNU #Linux with Latest #KDE 14 20:33
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sebsebsebhiSep 14 20:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Openbytes - The blogazine for those with a GNUtee beard! #linux #foss #gnu #windows #microsoft #xp #vistaSep 14 20:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Webconverger 5.5 ( #GNU #Linux #Distribution ) Reviewed 14 20:36
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balzacgrep "who is not idle" *Sep 14 20:55
balzachelloSep 14 20:57
balzac?-?Sep 14 20:57
_goblinhelloSep 14 20:57
balzacyoSep 14 20:57
balzacI need to get some critical data from GoogleSep 14 20:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Possible Plans for #Ubuntu 10.x #gnu #linuxSep 14 20:58
balzacNYC 51 district map layout in full, not through the soda straw of the flash player.Sep 14 20:58
balzac51 district map is highly efficient and somewhat secretive through obscurity and difficult accessibilitySep 14 20:59
schestowitzUse openstreetmapSep 14 20:59
schestowitzForget GoogleSep 14 20:59
balzacokSep 14 20:59
schestowitzUse MarbleSep 14 20:59
schestowitzNice programSep 14 20:59
schestowitzIf the data is missing, add to openstreetmapSep 14 20:59
balzacnah, I can't do that nowSep 14 21:00
balzacthe election is tomorrowSep 14 21:00
balzacI need to screen-scrape from NY times and thereby probably be in violation of terms of useSep 14 21:01
balzacor use some clever code to load just that district map.Sep 14 21:01
balzacmaybe I can use cURLSep 14 21:01
balzacI want to get the candidates by borough-numbering system, not the futuristic "area 51" district system which seems to ignore the 5 boroughs.Sep 14 21:02
balzacthere is no 1-1 match up between the 51 district map and the borough-district break-downSep 14 21:02
balzacI'm going to include both in this systemSep 14 21:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu #Variant #LinuxMint 7 #XFCE is Released and Reviewed 14 21:03
balzacivote4u.usSep 14 21:03
balzacso there is no match up, that is important to realize.Sep 14 21:03
_goblinright....time for a quick reboot....upgrades...Sep 14 21:04
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balzacthat means the city council elections are based on "area 51" according to the candidate list on NY TimesSep 14 21:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Review of #moonOS 3, #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux #Derivative 14 21:05
balzacwell, I want to see what candidates overlap which borough-district breakdownSep 14 21:05
trmancomsn protocol is acting weirdSep 14 21:05
balzacit's industrial infrastructure political map vs neighborhood political mapSep 14 21:06
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schestowitzYou vote?Sep 14 21:06
balzacI'll include bothSep 14 21:06
trmancomaybe it's being DOSedSep 14 21:06
schestowitzYou'd be more effective informing more peopleSep 14 21:06
schestowitzVoting as 'democracy' is a farceSep 14 21:06
*_Hicham_ ( has joined #boycottnovellSep 14 21:06
_goblinhow about that for an upgrade and reboot.....God I love Linux.Sep 14 21:06
schestowitzThe PR industry determines who votes howSep 14 21:06
balzacwell, at least people should be aware that in long island, the "area 51" map has one district over-lapping and containing another district.Sep 14 21:07
balzacI'm not saying there's not a good reason for that, but I like the map based on the surface as defined by streets as well, not just the weird boundaries of the "area 51" district systemSep 14 21:07
trmanco_goblin: yeah, that was fastSep 14 21:08
balzacI especially don't want to leave out the names of neighborhoods from this application I'm configuring.Sep 14 21:08
balzacopen street map doesn't have the data probablySep 14 21:09
balzacdoes anyone want to help me figure out how to get google's data?Sep 14 21:09
balzaci guess I'm qualified to figure that outSep 14 21:09
balzac  <--- borough district mapSep 14 21:10
balzacnotice each borough resets the count at number oneSep 14 21:10
balzac  <--- one single district for lower manhattanSep 14 21:11
trmancocan't send/receive messages from msnSep 14 21:11
balzaclook at how the borough district map shows almost 3 districts for that same areaSep 14 21:11
_Hicham_google data is available through google apiSep 14 21:11
balzac_Hicham_: I'm working on this project which has backing from AcquiaSep 14 21:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] LG Releases Linux Phone LG does patent racketeering with Microsoft, thoughSep 14 21:12
balzacI was lucky to get this job so I want to get as much data as possible into the systemSep 14 21:12
balzacI guess I'll have to do two separate district systemsSep 14 21:12
balzacdifferent groups for each one.Sep 14 21:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Motorola Entered Linux #Development World 14 21:13
balzacsince there's no 1-to-1 match-up between these two district systemsSep 14 21:13
balzacAs I mentioned, districts are permitted to contain other districts in the "area 51" system favored by NY Times *and* wikipediaSep 14 21:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Alpha680 #Subnotebooks Runs #Linux , Reviewed 14 21:14
balzacI'd like to see if anyone here can find a map of that system. I guess it's not possible since it's not a traditional map, it's very abstract.Sep 14 21:14
balzac_Hicham_: do you know google API?Sep 14 21:14
balzacI'd like the campaign volunteers to be able to see the shapes of these 51 districtsSep 14 21:15
_Hicham_balzac : most of google's api is in pythonSep 14 21:15
schestowitz_Hicham_: there's no "Google data"Sep 14 21:15
schestowitzThey 'license' itSep 14 21:15
balzacrightSep 14 21:15
schestowitzIt's so-called 'IP'Sep 14 21:15
balzacwiselsSep 14 21:15
schestowitzWhich is why I recommend openstreetmapSep 14 21:15
balzacgoogle has become very efficientSep 14 21:15
schestowitzIt's improving fast enough to beat the duopolySep 14 21:15
_Hicham_schestowitz : or use World Wind with MonoSep 14 21:15
_Hicham_schestowitz : what do u prefer ?Sep 14 21:16
schestowitzBlechSep 14 21:16
schestowitzI hate WOrld WingSep 14 21:16
schestowitzWIndSep 14 21:16
balzacefficient in the scary connotationSep 14 21:16
schestowitzTHe shame of NASASep 14 21:16
_Hicham_why ?Sep 14 21:16
_Hicham_because of .NET ?Sep 14 21:16
schestowitzMicrosoft promiscuous bastardsSep 14 21:16
schestowitzThere's moreSep 14 21:16
schestowitzLong storySep 14 21:16
balzacbecause they're offering this data through a soda-strawSep 14 21:16
_Hicham_They are now offering a Java-SDKSep 14 21:16
balzacok, I'll figure out a way to do thisSep 14 21:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Government of #Malaysia Shows Migration to #Free Software #UK Should Follow http://bit.l ...Sep 14 21:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mozilla Has Another #Jetpack , #SeaMonkey 2.0 Coming 14 21:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #SoftwareFreedomDay Coming Shortly 14 21:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Haiku R1/Alpha 1 is Released 14 21:27
ThistleWebthe CAS guys were raving about haiku in the latest episode, also harshing on RH againSep 14 21:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Google Declares #Data #Liberation 14 21:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Medical #AstroTurf (or Gentle #Bribery ) Turns #Academia to #Corrupt Arena 14 21:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Testday: Test New Features of Fx3.6!: !firefox #firefoxSep 14 21:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] UK Police Treats Everyone Like a #Criminal, by Default 14 21:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Sony Broke the Law with #DRM Scheme and Must Still Pay Victims #rootkit #crimeSep 14 21:37
trmancomsn still downSep 14 21:40
*_Hicham_ has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090909051554]")Sep 14 21:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Japan Falls Into #MAFIAA Trap of Plan That Would Never Work 14 21:44
trmancoWe will never kill Mono - Says Microsoft: 14 21:44
trmancofound thisSep 14 21:44
trmancoyes it's oldSep 14 21:44
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #IntellectualMonopolies in the UK Ignore Artists, Consumers, Follow #Moguls Instead 14 21:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Microsoft Bob Hope gains "visual search" feature 14 21:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Outdated #Copyright Becomes an Issue of #HumanRights 14 21:47
wallclimberarghh...hate mondays.  thought i'd take a break and see what's happenin' on my favorite irc chatSep 14 21:47
wallclimberit's worrisome that BN's irc seems a saner place than my office...lolSep 14 21:48
trmancohehSep 14 21:48
wallclimberyou guys ARE sane, aren't you? :)Sep 14 21:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why Extremely High Damages Make a Farce of the #USPTO 14 21:49
trmancoYes we areSep 14 21:49
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wallclimberI believe you.  Yes I do.Sep 14 21:53
wallclimberI have a Sony Vaio laptop sitting here next to me.  it belongs to my business partner and she thinks it's got a virus, so she wants it fixedSep 14 21:55
wallclimber...just shoot me...Sep 14 21:55
_Hicham_wallclimber : install linuxSep 14 21:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #European Software Strategy Document #Corrupted By #Microsoft #Lobbyist #ACT 14 21:56
_Hicham_I am the new CEO of MSSep 14 21:56
wallclimberi'd like to do that, but it hasn't liked any Live cds i've tried, so far (knoppix, ubu-jaunty, puppy)Sep 14 21:57
trmanco 14 21:57
trmancoA vírusSep 14 21:57
trmancono anti-virus installed?Sep 14 21:58
_Hicham_install Kaspersky Antivirus WallclimberSep 14 21:59
trmancoyou can say so many bad thing about FF 3.5Sep 14 21:59
trmancothings*Sep 14 21:59
trmancobut it's still the best browserSep 14 22:00
ThistleWebone argument you could use to encourage Linux adoption is that "who pays if your PC shares your customers private data with a third party who will use if for ID theft?"Sep 14 22:00
trmancosee link above and see for yourselfSep 14 22:00
_Hicham_there is no browser on linux usable yet but firefoxSep 14 22:00
_Hicham_that is the truthSep 14 22:00
ThistleWebmalware tends to do stuff like that, and the better it's written, the less chance you'll notice itSep 14 22:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Propaganda from #Microsoft #FrontGroup ( #BSA ) Debunked 14 22:01
trmancothat's freeSep 14 22:01
trmancoopera is a good non-free browserSep 14 22:01
_Hicham_trmanco : don't mention non-free stuff plzSep 14 22:01
trmancowhy?Sep 14 22:01
wallclimber(sorry, i ran off to have my browser checked)Sep 14 22:02
_Hicham_we don't support non-free stuff in hereSep 14 22:02
ThistleWebwho asked for support for it?Sep 14 22:02
ThistleWebthats what the project channels are forSep 14 22:02
_Hicham_that is against BN rulesSep 14 22:02
MinceRthere's no such thing as a "best browser"Sep 14 22:02
ThistleWebBN rules roflSep 14 22:02
MinceRthere are browsers that suck somewhat less than othersSep 14 22:02
MinceR_Hicham_: trolling is against BN rulesSep 14 22:02
ThistleWebsounds like Percy the Prefect found IRCSep 14 22:02
_Hicham_MinceR : hello Mr TrollSep 14 22:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Windows #Vista Killed Microsoft for Good in CIOs' Minds, #VIsta7 Shunned 14 22:03
MinceR_Hicham_: so that's your name. interesting.Sep 14 22:03
_Hicham_MinceR : why do u like trolling that much ?Sep 14 22:03
_Hicham_can't u get enough of trolling ?Sep 14 22:03
MinceR_Hicham_: i don't. that's why i keep telling you to stop.Sep 14 22:03
_Hicham_because no one is telling that u r trollingSep 14 22:04
_Hicham_that is why u don't knowSep 14 22:04
MinceRi know i'm not and i know you are.Sep 14 22:04
_Hicham_see, u trolling, as alwaysSep 14 22:05
MinceRi'd tell you to look up what trolling is but i know you don't care.Sep 14 22:05
_Hicham_i told u that beforeSep 14 22:05
*ThistleWeb shakes his head at yet another playground spat between the children "stop trolling" "I'm not trolling, you are" "are too" "are not" "are too, no backsies"Sep 14 22:05
_Hicham_but u r way stubborn to go check itSep 14 22:05
_Hicham_ThistleWeb : hi big daddy !Sep 14 22:06
_Hicham_MinceR : keep accusing people of trolling all the timeSep 14 22:07
_Hicham_maybe u will accuse schestowitz sometime tooSep 14 22:07
MinceRThistleWeb: what can i do about it?Sep 14 22:07
_Hicham_everyone is a troll for Mr MinceRSep 14 22:08
ThistleWeball I see is squabling kids, everyone who is squabling is contributing to the squableSep 14 22:08
ThistleWebyou may think you're trying to help, but all you're doing is making anyone who reads the logs, or pop in think we're a bunch of kidsSep 14 22:09
MinceRThistleWeb: and you don't think that you are contributing to it with your holier-than-thou bullshit?Sep 14 22:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft's Attempt to Harm #FOSS from the Inside Worse Than Ever 14 22:10
ThistleWebthat's if they pop in during one of the squablesSep 14 22:10
_Hicham_ThistleWeb is the Big Head in hereSep 14 22:10
ThistleWebblame me if you want, I'm trying to get a point across and quell the bickeringSep 14 22:10
ThistleWebthat may suggest you need a target, any target, if it's not each other, it's meSep 14 22:11
ThistleWebso be itSep 14 22:11
trmancobungo has image surchSep 14 22:11
MinceRi know the one way to stop trolling, but i can't use it here :>Sep 14 22:11
schestowitzwallclimber: Sony doesn't like Linux on laptopsSep 14 22:11
schestowitzVaios are are a true 'shill' to the VoleSep 14 22:11
trmanco*visual surchSep 14 22:11
trmanco:-PSep 14 22:11
_Hicham_schestowitz : I tried a Vaio with Fedora 10, and it worked flawlesslySep 14 22:12
schestowitzMaybe it changedSep 14 22:13
_Hicham_they suck on Windows since they don't provide Windows XP driversSep 14 22:13
_Hicham_only Vista driversSep 14 22:14
_Hicham_not like HPSep 14 22:14
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wallclimberI'll try a Live cd again in a while.  She's back from lunch, apparently i misunderstood, this isn't her laptop, it's her husband's and he apparently likes to play poker online.Sep 14 22:14
wallclimberhmmmSep 14 22:14
wallclimberHicham, do you think Fedora might be usable to a newbie?Sep 14 22:15
_Hicham_Omar87 : مرحبا بالأخ العزيز عمرSep 14 22:15
_Hicham_Omar87 : كيف الحال في الأردن ؟Sep 14 22:15
_Hicham_wallclimber : Once it is well installed yesSep 14 22:17
wallclimberHicham, ThistleWeb is always good natured, and seems to keep to the high ground in he's funnySep 14 22:17
wallclimberdon't pick on himSep 14 22:17
wallclimber:)Sep 14 22:17
ThistleWebwallclimber: it's fineSep 14 22:17
_Hicham_wallclimber : I don't pick on anyoneSep 14 22:17
ThistleWebty anywaySep 14 22:17
_Hicham_I am just having a fun time in hereSep 14 22:17
_Hicham_all members in here are my brothersSep 14 22:18
wallclimberHicham, i know  :)Sep 14 22:18
MinceRyour idea of a "fun time" is annoyingSep 14 22:18
wallclimberok, i'm off to kill or cure a sonySep 14 22:18
*Lns has quit ("Φ")Sep 14 22:18
_Hicham_wallclimber : did u use Fedora before ?Sep 14 22:18
wallclimberno, i've never used itSep 14 22:18
wallclimbermaybe i did, once, a couple of years agoSep 14 22:19
_Hicham_wallclimber : what distro do u use usually ?Sep 14 22:19
wallclimberthe ones i'm most familiar with are the 'buntus and mandriva, and i love crunchbang, but haven't used it more than a short timeSep 14 22:20
trmanco "In Portugal, internet users are night owls, in Switzerland, they surf early in the internet"Sep 14 22:21
trmancohahaSep 14 22:21
wallclimbermostly (since i'm only smart enough to be dangerous) i stay with what i can help others withSep 14 22:21
_Hicham_Ubuntu is a good choice for newbies, Mandriva is also a good choice ( remove the imwheel package by the way )Sep 14 22:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] "In Portugal, internet users are night owls, in Switzerland, they surf early in the internet"Sep 14 22:22
_Hicham_wallclimber : don't install a development versionSep 14 22:22
wallclimberwhen i couldn't get any of the Live cds to boot, i figured i should make sure there's not a hardware problem before i get into anything elseSep 14 22:22
_Hicham_wallclimber : are those livecd's recent ?Sep 14 22:23
wallclimberyes, fresh brewed this morningSep 14 22:23
wallclimber:)Sep 14 22:23
wallclimberi'll be back later, will let you know how it goes (wish me luck)Sep 14 22:25
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] iPhone Gets .Net App Development AKA a double helping of FAIL 14 22:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @petapixel Wow - Birth of a .25 millimetre aphid: 14 22:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] .:|*Music of the Day*|:. Benny Benassi - Memory Of Love 14 22:56
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] with politically aware protestors like this, the return of the republicans is absolutely assured 14 22:58
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trmanco 14 23:03
trmancoThe GnomeDo killa :-PSep 14 23:03
trmancobut still, nothing beats kde oneSep 14 23:04
trmancokde'sSep 14 23:04
trmancodon't know what to call itSep 14 23:04
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trmancowhere is everybody?Sep 14 23:08
MinceRNine Inch NailsSep 14 23:08
trmanco 14 23:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♻ @phoronix: Good News, id Tech 5 Is Likely Coming To Linux 14 23:09
trmancoLooks like all those quake live linux users are paying off uhSep 14 23:09
trmancoremember what he said a couple of months ago?Sep 14 23:09
MinceRindeedSep 14 23:09
MinceRi'm somewhat relievedSep 14 23:09
trmancoI use to playSep 14 23:09
trmancosince I've moved to kde I haven't playing quake liveSep 14 23:09
trmancoit gets boring after 1-2 weeks of playingSep 14 23:10
MinceRi don't have time to play much of anything nowadaysSep 14 23:10
trmancoI use to be a hardcore gamer :|Sep 14 23:10
MinceRwork + overhaul of my personal IT infrastructureSep 14 23:10
MinceRso did iSep 14 23:10
trmancoI use to play lots of gamesSep 14 23:11
trmancosleep, play, sleep, play :|Sep 14 23:11
trmancoMinceR: favorites?Sep 14 23:12
trmancoI've played doom 3Sep 14 23:13
trmancobut never reached the end :|Sep 14 23:13
trmancotoo damn scarySep 14 23:13
MinceRut2004 is my current favoriteSep 14 23:13
MinceRdidn't have time to play doom3 yetSep 14 23:13
schestowitzI played it a bit....Sep 14 23:14
trmancoit's scarier than FearSep 14 23:15
trmancoFEAR*Sep 14 23:15
schestowitzNo problema[sic]Sep 14 23:16
schestowitzJust turn down the lightsSep 14 23:16
schestowitzMake sure everyone is awaSep 14 23:16
schestowitzCrank up the volumeSep 14 23:16
*trmanco ahahahahhahaSep 14 23:16
schestowitzSee? Easy! No longer scary.Sep 14 23:16
*gargoyle-grin has quit ("Leaving.")Sep 14 23:16
trmancoFEAR is a fameSep 14 23:16
trmancogame*Sep 14 23:16
schestowitzHhee.Sep 14 23:16
trmancogood engine tooSep 14 23:16
schestowitzMake catheter so you don't pee in your pants !!Sep 14 23:17
trmancothough it's directxSep 14 23:17
trmancobest engine was from crysisSep 14 23:17
trmancoI would call it's engine "perfect" if it wasn't built on top of directxSep 14 23:17
schestowitzDirect X won't catch up if consoles continue to be popularSep 14 23:17
trmancothey willSep 14 23:18
trmanco(the consoles)Sep 14 23:18
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trmanco 14 23:20
MinceR:)Sep 14 23:21
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trmancodid I ever say that Okular is a great piece of software?Sep 14 23:23
schestowitzI got some personal feedback about the Borland storySep 14 23:23
schestowitzThere will be a followupSep 14 23:23
MinceRi find myself preferring KPDF to itSep 14 23:23
MinceRokular is too clunky and wastes screen space horriblySep 14 23:23
schestowitzOkular also does text extractionSep 14 23:23
MinceRand somehow it behaves badlySep 14 23:23
trmancoyesSep 14 23:23
schestowitzSo I'll never install Adobe ReaderSep 14 23:23
MinceRi can't quite put my finger on itSep 14 23:23
trmancotext extraction is what's great about it, any textSep 14 23:23
trmanco:DSep 14 23:24
MinceRKPDF can select and copy text tooSep 14 23:24
trmancohmmSep 14 23:24
schestowitzWhich v?Sep 14 23:24
trmancoany text?Sep 14 23:24
schestowitzNot 3.5.10Sep 14 23:24
trmancoI remember that Evince in some docs could not extract textSep 14 23:24
schestowitzI also have stupid colleagues that send PDFs with annotationSep 14 23:24
MinceRwell, what is recognizable as such -- no OCRSep 14 23:24
schestowitzI don't know if Okular can cope with this nowSep 14 23:24
schestowitzAdobe Reader is a mess on the systemSep 14 23:25
MinceRmaybe it's just that okular wastes screen space too much for meSep 14 23:25
schestowitzliblinux.bin or whatever can get bogged down by itSep 14 23:25
schestowitzA different filename, can't remember whichSep 14 23:25
schestowitzCommon errorSep 14 23:25
schestowitzMinceR: how bit a screen?Sep 14 23:25
trmancookular has no OCRSep 14 23:26
schestowitzfor sub-notebooks you could also remove some panes/tollbarsSep 14 23:26
MinceRfor example, the part where it displays the page number and the 4 buttons that go with it takes up an entire toolbarSep 14 23:26
schestowitz*oolSep 14 23:26
MinceRthe part where you can switch the sidebar takes up another toolbar-sized barSep 14 23:26
schestowitzYou're just pickySep 14 23:26
MinceRtrue, in KDPF you couldn't see the page number if you hid the sidebarSep 14 23:26
MinceRbut i still much prefer that layoutSep 14 23:27
MinceRthe page number bar was probably copied from adobe readerSep 14 23:27
MinceRbad idea.Sep 14 23:27
schestowitzThe acrobat should break a legSep 14 23:28
MinceRpreferably its ownSep 14 23:28
MinceRs/KDPF/KPDF/Sep 14 23:29
trmancohehSep 14 23:30
trmancowindows users need itSep 14 23:30
schestowitzNot reallySep 14 23:30
schestowitzThere's some Fox*Sep 14 23:30
schestowitzCan't recall what it's calledSep 14 23:30
schestowitzLighterSep 14 23:30
trmanco 14 23:31
trmancofoxit reader?Sep 14 23:31
trmancosomething like thatSep 14 23:31
schestowitzYeah.Sep 14 23:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] 10 of the Best Free Linux IRC Clients: 14 23:32
MinceRexists on linux too, but it's slowSep 14 23:32
MinceRat least for mostly text pagesSep 14 23:32
MinceRit probably isn't as slow as it feels, but it feels awfully sluggish with its slow and clunky scroll and everythingSep 14 23:33
MinceRgnSep 14 23:34
trmancognSep 14 23:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] CodePlex Foundation founding flawed says legal expert: 14 23:46
trmanco 14 23:46
trmancolinux was left out?Sep 14 23:46
trmanco 14 23:48
trmancothis article is goneSep 14 23:48
trmancoah, found it again -> 14 23:49
*_Hicham_ has quit (Remote closed the connection)Sep 14 23:51
trmancoMS insists bodged fix didn't spawn Windows crash risk: 14 23:54
trmancoschestowitz: seen that?Sep 14 23:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] 10 Linux file managers worth checking out: 14 23:58

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