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twitter1 | It's funny, but until very recently I did not know the author was a woman -> http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2009091803235OPCY | Sep 27 00:13 |
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twitter1 | None of those things seem like free software issues. | Sep 27 00:13 |
Diablo-D3 | heh | Sep 27 00:14 |
Diablo-D3 | ironic | Sep 27 00:14 |
Diablo-D3 | people like carla schroder is why there is sexism in foss | Sep 27 00:14 |
twitter1 | It bothers me that she went on to say sexism was "holding FOSS back" as if FOSS were some bastion of sexism. | Sep 27 00:14 |
cubezzz | well the tone is clear | Sep 27 00:15 |
Diablo-D3 | twitter1: it bothers me that she doesnt realize her cunt is sandy | Sep 27 00:15 |
Diablo-D3 | why the fuck do women do that | Sep 27 00:15 |
Diablo-D3 | we treat them generlessly, and they have to go fuck it up | Sep 27 00:15 |
Diablo-D3 | I was quite happy with foss having no gender problems | Sep 27 00:15 |
cubezzz | most of the time I don't know the gender, at least not in IRC | Sep 27 00:15 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: AND THATS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE | Sep 27 00:16 |
Diablo-D3 | fucking women | Sep 27 00:16 |
Diablo-D3 | "dont treat me as a woman" "okay I want" "I HAVE TITS, WORSHIP THEM!" | Sep 27 00:16 |
Diablo-D3 | fucking bipolar whores | Sep 27 00:16 |
cubezzz | ok, I don't think it's quite that bad :) | Sep 27 00:16 |
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cubezzz | yeah it's distracting | Sep 27 00:18 |
Diablo-D3 | no shit is it distracting | Sep 27 00:18 |
Diablo-D3 | especially since half the foss community are virgins | Sep 27 00:18 |
Diablo-D3 | the last thing we need is some woman getting it into her head that she should tell these people shes a woman | Sep 27 00:19 |
Diablo-D3 | woman in foss is probably some sort of microsoft plot | Sep 27 00:19 |
twitter1 | I have seen only two people in BN IRC have announced their gender. | Sep 27 00:34 |
cubezzz | I've met decent women programmers | Sep 27 00:39 |
cubezzz | but I've never met any women _linux_ programmer, that must be the rarest of the rare | Sep 27 00:40 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: SO HEY | Sep 27 00:40 |
twitter1 | I was taught numerical methods by a woman. | Sep 27 00:40 |
Diablo-D3 | YOU KNOW WHAT A DECENT WOMAN PROGRAMMER IS? | Sep 27 00:40 |
Diablo-D3 | ONE THAT DOESNT SAY SHES A WOMAN | Sep 27 00:40 |
Diablo-D3 | Seriously | Sep 27 00:40 |
Diablo-D3 | there are very few things that make me angry | Sep 27 00:40 |
cubezzz | Diablo-D3, it was at work, I could see her :) | Sep 27 00:40 |
cubezzz | this is before www and all that | Sep 27 00:41 |
Diablo-D3 | something that borders on what ultimately equates to militant feminism pisses me off | Sep 27 00:41 |
Diablo-D3 | who the almighty fuck cares if you have a cunt | Sep 27 00:41 |
Diablo-D3 | it doesnt improve your ability to bang out code | Sep 27 00:41 |
cubezzz | there were some women devs at NCR | Sep 27 00:41 |
Diablo-D3 | who. the fuck. cares. | Sep 27 00:41 |
Diablo-D3 | I dont care. no one else cares. | Sep 27 00:42 |
cubezzz | Diablo-D3, right, I get that | Sep 27 00:42 |
Diablo-D3 | so why the fuck do these bitches keep bringing it up | Sep 27 00:42 |
Diablo-D3 | there was no sexism until _they_ brought it here! | Sep 27 00:42 |
Diablo-D3 | and they can take it with them when they leave! | Sep 27 00:42 |
cubezzz | ok, for what's it's worth: | Sep 27 01:00 |
cubezzz | http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/x168.html | Sep 27 01:00 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: wow | Sep 27 01:11 |
Diablo-D3 | what a horrible document | Sep 27 01:11 |
Diablo-D3 | its like affirmative action for women | Sep 27 01:11 |
twitter1 | wordpress passwords are not working, schestowitz | Sep 27 01:12 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: you know what the real problem is? | Sep 27 01:12 |
Diablo-D3 | these women think they can enter a LUG without being a geek | Sep 27 01:13 |
Diablo-D3 | they are being pointed out because TADA! they're not geeks! | Sep 27 01:13 |
cubezzz | Diablo-D3, that seems unlikely | Sep 27 01:13 |
cubezzz | why would they bother going to a LUG then? | Sep 27 01:14 |
Diablo-D3 | because women... just.... do stupid shit | Sep 27 01:14 |
Diablo-D3 | and its not limited to women | Sep 27 01:14 |
Diablo-D3 | Ive met men who do stupid shit too | Sep 27 01:14 |
Diablo-D3 | pretty much 90% of the human population engages in doing stupid shit on a regular basis | Sep 27 01:14 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] Knife-edge flight is fun. | Sep 27 01:17 | |
cubezzz | the first time I went into #linux it was pretty hostile | Sep 27 01:22 |
cubezzz | that was EFNet and there was a lot of hostility in general | Sep 27 01:23 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: hey | Sep 27 01:23 |
Diablo-D3 | I remember that place | Sep 27 01:23 |
Diablo-D3 | it was awesome | Sep 27 01:23 |
Diablo-D3 | the linux community was much better back then | Sep 27 01:23 |
Diablo-D3 | if you were a douche, people were kind enough to tell you to your face | Sep 27 01:23 |
Diablo-D3 | now we have douchebags running all over the place and shitting on linux | Sep 27 01:23 |
cubezzz | do you still go there? | Sep 27 01:24 |
Diablo-D3 | naw | Sep 27 01:24 |
Diablo-D3 | havent been back for years | Sep 27 01:24 |
Diablo-D3 | last time I went there lilo was still going there | Sep 27 01:24 |
Diablo-D3 | he started what became freenode shortly after | Sep 27 01:24 |
Diablo-D3 | and then, eventually, he got ran over. | Sep 27 01:25 |
cubezzz | well this was back in 2003 and my memory of it was rather negative | Sep 27 01:27 |
cubezzz | I've joined other much friendier dev groups since then | Sep 27 01:27 |
cubezzz | Diablo-D3, not literally I hope? | Sep 27 01:27 |
Diablo-D3 | yes, literally. | Sep 27 01:28 |
Diablo-D3 | rob levin died from acute ford taurus poisoning. | Sep 27 01:28 |
cubezzz | on a bicycle too | Sep 27 01:30 |
cubezzz | yes, I see what happened on his wikipedia page | Sep 27 01:30 |
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twitter1 | still reading http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/x168.html | Sep 27 01:47 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Got round to working out the Digg, Twitter etc footer icons on WordPress. Still got categories to fix yet | Sep 27 01:47 | |
twitter1 | It's like riding on a public bus in Tokyo (not really, people there are more subtle) -> Many women complain that when they walk into a room of Linux enthusiasts, suddenly, the conversation stops, everyone turns around and looks, and few people even point to make sure their buddies can see what everyone is staring at. | Sep 27 01:48 |
twitter1 | I can imagine someone whistling the theme from "the good the bad and the ugly" | Sep 27 01:49 |
cubezzz | I've never been to a LUG meeting | Sep 27 01:56 |
cubezzz | I went to the TV centre for Amiga devs a couple of times | Sep 27 01:57 |
cubezzz | ages ago | Sep 27 01:57 |
cubezzz | it was pretty good | Sep 27 01:57 |
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twitter1 | I've been to a few LUG meetings, but I've never lived in a place big enough to have a larger group, so there was never much going on. | Sep 27 01:59 |
twitter1 | here's something -> if your group has nine helpful and polite members, and one rude, sexist, loud member, most women are going to continue to stay away because of that one member. | Sep 27 02:00 |
twitter1 | this is probably why M$ invests so much time trolling | Sep 27 02:00 |
cubezzz | well for me there's Toronto is sort of close | Sep 27 02:07 |
cubezzz | locally there's almost nothing | Sep 27 02:07 |
twitter1 | wp passwords now working | Sep 27 02:07 |
cubezzz | we used to have commodore user's meet at the Micahel Starr building | Sep 27 02:07 |
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DaemonFC | I really like the thoughtlessness of that entire "Don't boycott Ubuntu thing" | Sep 27 02:17 |
DaemonFC | partially because of their extremely pro-Mono position | Sep 27 02:17 |
DaemonFC | how is apologizing for it and refusing to consider removing it any better than what Suse does? | Sep 27 02:17 |
DaemonFC | and how is having jono_ in here any better than having a Novell PR agent? | Sep 27 02:18 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu is talking about deeper integration of way worse things than Mono every day, but it seems to sail over the heads of everyone here | Sep 27 02:19 |
DaemonFC | how is trusting Amazon, Google, and Canonical with my data inherently "better" than trusting it to Microsoft "Windows Azure"? | Sep 27 02:20 |
DaemonFC | Answer: It probably isn't | Sep 27 02:20 |
DaemonFC | I don't trust "cloud computing" services from anyone, any further than I can throw them | Sep 27 02:20 |
DaemonFC | and rooting for ARM based netbooks as a vehicle for Linux adoption is completely backward for many reasons too | Sep 27 02:21 |
DaemonFC | for one example, ARM has less producers than x86 which means less competition and higher prices | Sep 27 02:21 |
DaemonFC | for another example, Mono compiles and runs on ARM, so you're not escaping Mono either | Sep 27 02:22 |
DaemonFC | and another good reason you don't want to root for ARM/Linux netbooks is because your data will still be "in the cloud" | Sep 27 02:22 |
DaemonFC | I don't really care what I'm using as long as it is on fairly standard hardware which is plenty powerful to run real applications. Offsite backups are fine and maybe a great idea, but depending on "cloud" apps is probably worse in the long run than depending on Windows | Sep 27 02:24 |
DaemonFC | and cloud apps are definitely where Ubuntu is trying to go | Sep 27 02:24 |
DaemonFC | I don't even think Ubuntu has a netbook edition which supports ARM anyway | Sep 27 02:25 |
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DaemonFC | embracing Ubuntu for reasons of "freedom" is just bonehead stupid for more reasons than I even really want to get into | Sep 27 02:26 |
DaemonFC | Debian would be a much more sane choice | Sep 27 02:26 |
DaemonFC | asking Canonical to give you freedom is like asking Santa Claus to bring you a nice big fat lump of coal | Sep 27 02:26 |
DaemonFC | I think a source of all the confusion over what is and isn't free software is deliberately spread by companies like Canonical | Sep 27 02:33 |
DaemonFC | that doesn't make them evil, but you shouldn't trust them any more than any other company and you should realize that they'll only support hardware and things which make sense to their business | Sep 27 02:34 |
DaemonFC | Debian supports 12 architectures I believe, and they do it just because they can | Sep 27 02:35 |
DaemonFC | Canonical/Ubuntu only supports 1 architecture (x86), 2 if you count x86-64 | Sep 27 02:35 |
twitter1 | thanks for the link to "how to get women into your LUG" http://boycottnovell.com/2009/09/25/do-not-boycott-ubuntu/comment-page-1/#comment-73613 | Sep 27 02:40 |
DaemonFC | the GNOME desktop is also fundamentally flawed in the way a lot of proprietary software is | Sep 27 02:42 |
DaemonFC | actually, more so | Sep 27 02:42 |
DaemonFC | because I can actually fine tune just about any program on my Windows desktop into doing pretty much exactly what I want, and I can't do that in GNOME | Sep 27 02:42 |
DaemonFC | they're broken everything from audio encoding to saving a document | Sep 27 02:43 |
DaemonFC | KDE fixes a lot of what is wrong with GNOME in that it again becomes possible to fine tune | Sep 27 02:43 |
DaemonFC | unfortunately a lot of people I mention Linux to, they say "Oh, I tried that and it was impossible to do anything", and the first thing I always ask them was if it was brown ;) | Sep 27 02:44 |
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DaemonFC | unfortunately the world tends to make "standards" out of the dumbest, most useless crap, and so of course GNOME is getting more popular | Sep 27 02:45 |
DaemonFC | It's getting more popular because if you ask anyone what they want from their computer, 9 times out of 10 you hear "I want it to be easier". What they mean is that they want it to read their mind or just do something with the minimum amount of buttons pushed, but that necessarily involves dumbing it down. And even if you dumb it down, it still doesn't give them what they want because they also wanted it to be powerful and conf | Sep 27 02:47 |
DaemonFC | igurable at the same time | Sep 27 02:47 |
DaemonFC | companies like Apple have been dumbing down their software trying to scrape the bottom of the barrel for new users for decades, and they're really just pissing off people that already use the computer and people like my mom will still likely never use one | Sep 27 02:48 |
twitter1 | It's funny how these things float on people's minds. | Sep 27 02:50 |
Diablo-D3 | twitter1: its funny how much people fail | Sep 27 02:50 |
Diablo-D3 | I wish people would shut up about it already | Sep 27 02:50 |
Diablo-D3 | this is why women hate linux | Sep 27 02:50 |
Diablo-D3 | its because we keep using the w word | Sep 27 02:50 |
Diablo-D3 | if we refuse to recognize their gender, they can't dramatroll us. | Sep 27 02:50 |
DaemonFC | really what you get with GNOME is it lures people in to try it then they get exasperated at how useless it is and run screaming back to Windows or Mac because they can't get GNOME to do what they want or need | Sep 27 02:51 |
twitter1 | The other week, an intern at our company asked me for a "gender neutral password." I stood dumbly for a minute trying to reconcile the request with the rarity of gender specific English. | Sep 27 02:51 |
MinceR | women hate linux? | Sep 27 02:51 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: no, women hate men | Sep 27 02:51 |
MinceR | twitter1: proper, randomly generated passwords are gender neutral. :> | Sep 27 02:51 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, I don't think women tend to be techies as much | Sep 27 02:51 |
twitter1 | It took a little more communication before I realized the intern wanted a guest login. | Sep 27 02:51 |
DaemonFC | it's not saying they're dumb, just less inclined to care | Sep 27 02:51 |
Diablo-D3 | twitter1: "password" | Sep 27 02:51 |
DaemonFC | Shuttleworth probably meant that but blurted it out wrong | Sep 27 02:52 |
DaemonFC | in my experience, just about every IT-related class is a major sausagefest | Sep 27 02:53 |
DaemonFC | with the exception of maybe 2-3 women | Sep 27 02:53 |
DaemonFC | so the phenomenon is real enough | Sep 27 02:53 |
cubezzz | DaemonFC, I doubt people would return to windows simply becausue they didn't like GNOME | Sep 27 03:17 |
DaemonFC | I think that it is sending a lot of users back to Windows | Sep 27 03:17 |
DaemonFC | GNOME is really that bad/broken | Sep 27 03:17 |
DaemonFC | you may hear a few GNOME zombies fanboys, and Windows/Microsoft haters say GNOME is the best thing since sliced bread | Sep 27 03:18 |
DaemonFC | I stopped even trying to apologize for it, and I'd tell anyone to use KDE at this point | Sep 27 03:18 |
cubezzz | if one doesn't like GNOME there's KDE or TWM or whatever | Sep 27 03:18 |
Diablo-D3 | xfce | Sep 27 03:19 |
cubezzz | besides, I try to do as much as possible using text based programs | Sep 27 03:19 |
cubezzz | e.g. mutt instead of kmail | Sep 27 03:19 |
Diablo-D3 | I'm actually thinking about switching to xfce | Sep 27 03:20 |
DaemonFC | and repositories only help you if the software you want is in them | Sep 27 03:21 |
DaemonFC | I always seem to need some niche package that hasn't been packaged | Sep 27 03:21 |
DaemonFC | AoTuv is a good example | Sep 27 03:21 |
cubezzz | Diablo-D3, what are you using currently? | Sep 27 03:21 |
Diablo-D3 | gnome customized to what I want | Sep 27 03:22 |
cubezzz | well choice is good | Sep 27 03:26 |
cubezzz | I've written a couple of simple KDE progs | Sep 27 03:27 |
cubezzz | played around with kdevelop | Sep 27 03:27 |
cubezzz | schestowitz, Goldman Sachs donated to gnu :) | Sep 27 03:43 |
Diablo-D3 | goldman sachs uses a lot of foss software, cubezzz | Sep 27 03:43 |
cubezzz | I don't know much about Goldman Sachs | Sep 27 03:45 |
cubezzz | finanical services company I assume? | Sep 27 03:45 |
Diablo-D3 | very large one | Sep 27 03:45 |
Diablo-D3 | they're sort of like the super heroes of wall street | Sep 27 03:46 |
Diablo-D3 | except they're total dickholes | Sep 27 03:46 |
Diablo-D3 | so they're more like the apple/sun/cisco of wall street | Sep 27 03:46 |
cubezzz | hmmm | Sep 27 03:47 |
Diablo-D3 | they're very good at tending to their money trees | Sep 27 03:47 |
Diablo-D3 | they lost very little money in the recent economic downturn | Sep 27 03:47 |
cubezzz | Diablo-D3, they seem Bullish on Red Hat | Sep 27 03:48 |
*Diablo-D3 looks | Sep 27 03:49 | |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: I'm bearish on red hat | Sep 27 03:49 |
Diablo-D3 | look at the p/e | Sep 27 03:49 |
cubezzz | stock is near a 52 week high | Sep 27 03:49 |
Diablo-D3 | RoE over the past 5 years is too low | Sep 27 03:50 |
Diablo-D3 | so its a pretty mediocre company investing wise | Sep 27 03:50 |
cubezzz | not if you bought in at $10 :) | Sep 27 03:51 |
Diablo-D3 | eh | Sep 27 03:51 |
Diablo-D3 | lets say its $30 right now | Sep 27 03:51 |
Diablo-D3 | the P/E would still be in the lower 20s. | Sep 27 03:51 |
Diablo-D3 | and the RoE would still be too low | Sep 27 03:52 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: I only care about companies that have proven them selves to be worthy and are cheap | Sep 27 03:52 |
Diablo-D3 | redhat has not done that, and they're not cheap. | Sep 27 03:52 |
cubezzz | yes but it was as low as $3.XX a share at one point | Sep 27 03:53 |
cubezzz | under valued | Sep 27 03:53 |
Diablo-D3 | depends how you define under valued | Sep 27 03:53 |
Diablo-D3 | the problem is their RoE is _still_ too low | Sep 27 03:53 |
twitter1 | http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/237895 | Sep 27 03:53 |
Diablo-D3 | a dramatic drop in stock price would increase RoE in the long term | Sep 27 03:53 |
cubezzz | if there's any chance of Red Hat becoming the next Microsoft, then I want a piece of that action | Sep 27 03:54 |
Diablo-D3 | but you'd need a stock price around $6 or $7 without decreasing earnings | Sep 27 03:54 |
cubezzz | never had any microsoft shares you see | Sep 27 03:54 |
Diablo-D3 | at that point it would be worth buying | Sep 27 03:54 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: I dont care about flighty companies like microsoft | Sep 27 03:54 |
twitter1 | you can find that journal article on firehose and vote it up if you like it. | Sep 27 03:54 |
cubezzz | Diablo-D3, 9 splits? | Sep 27 03:54 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: I only care about making money | Sep 27 03:54 |
Diablo-D3 | microsoft is not the kind of company you can consistently make money with | Sep 27 03:55 |
Diablo-D3 | lets say I ran simulations of the universe | Sep 27 03:55 |
Diablo-D3 | microsoft wouldnt have always came out the way it did | Sep 27 03:55 |
Diablo-D3 | it would have been a shitty bet | Sep 27 03:55 |
cubezzz | that's true | Sep 27 03:55 |
Diablo-D3 | I look for companies that have high chances of coming out the same way over and over | Sep 27 03:56 |
cubezzz | so you don't bother with microsoft or red hat stocks I gather? | Sep 27 03:56 |
Diablo-D3 | not at those prices no | Sep 27 03:56 |
cubezzz | I could sell off at $30 RHT | Sep 27 03:56 |
twitter1 | the kind of people who have M$FT http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/217729 | Sep 27 03:56 |
Diablo-D3 | if red hat dropped to 1/3rd of it's current price tommorow, it'd be worth it | Sep 27 03:56 |
twitter1 | "Where's my money, Steve?" sob. | Sep 27 03:57 |
Diablo-D3 | now lets look at msft | Sep 27 03:57 |
Diablo-D3 | huh | Sep 27 03:59 |
Diablo-D3 | how bizzare | Sep 27 03:59 |
Diablo-D3 | at msft's current price, its actually worth buying | Sep 27 03:59 |
DaemonFC | yeah, they've gone from massively overvalued to massively undervalued | Sep 27 04:00 |
cubezzz | 5 years ago RHT was $11.50 per share | Sep 27 04:00 |
DaemonFC | the stock market swings between extremes | Sep 27 04:00 |
cubezzz | yeah it's crazy | Sep 27 04:00 |
DaemonFC | eventually Microsoft will start swinging the other way | Sep 27 04:01 |
DaemonFC | good chance to double your money | Sep 27 04:01 |
DaemonFC | Red Hat, I think, will probably continue to grow, but much slower | Sep 27 04:01 |
Diablo-D3 | I'd say its worth buying up through $30 or so | Sep 27 04:01 |
DaemonFC | I wouldn't buy Red Hat right now | Sep 27 04:02 |
cubezzz | no guarantees either way | Sep 27 04:02 |
DaemonFC | they've become more of a potential liability than asset | Sep 27 04:02 |
cubezzz | looking at the 5 year chart for MSFT | Sep 27 04:03 |
DaemonFC | the market is more or less flooded with software, and Microsoft has hit a lull because they don't use a subscription model in all cases | Sep 27 04:03 |
DaemonFC | they should, but they don't | Sep 27 04:03 |
DaemonFC | would ensure a fairly constant revenue stream | Sep 27 04:03 |
Diablo-D3 | past performance does not indicate future performance. | Sep 27 04:04 |
DaemonFC | eventually 2000/XP and Server 2003 will be too old to keep going and you'll see companies upgrading to Server 2008 R2 and Windows 7 | Sep 27 04:04 |
cubezzz | 5 years ago = 27.99 per share | Sep 27 04:04 |
DaemonFC | a subscription model would do a better job of keeping business customers on a leash though | Sep 27 04:05 |
cubezzz | currently around $25 | Sep 27 04:05 |
cubezzz | well, we'll see I guess :) | Sep 27 04:05 |
cubezzz | I'd say Microsoft's glory days are over | Sep 27 04:06 |
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Diablo-D3 | maybe | Sep 27 04:06 |
cubezzz | Buffet doesn't like tech stocks though | Sep 27 04:08 |
cubezzz | Coke and Gillette for him | Sep 27 04:08 |
Diablo-D3 | he doesnt buy into stocks he doesnt understand | Sep 27 04:08 |
Diablo-D3 | very rarely do I like tech stocks because they have very high p/es | Sep 27 04:09 |
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cubezzz | Diablo-D3, well Gates was the richest guy in the world for quite a while | Sep 27 04:10 |
Diablo-D3 | he still is | Sep 27 04:10 |
DaemonFC | no | Sep 27 04:11 |
Diablo-D3 | buffet gave up the spot | Sep 27 04:11 |
DaemonFC | Carlos Slim has more money than Bill Gates | Sep 27 04:11 |
DaemonFC | http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/54/400list08_Steven-Ballmer_ZBED.html | Sep 27 04:13 |
cubezzz | the top three are all down, but yeah Gates is back at #1 | Sep 27 04:13 |
cubezzz | http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/11/worlds-richest-people-billionaires-2009-billionaires_land.html | Sep 27 04:13 |
cubezzz | as of March 2009 | Sep 27 04:13 |
cubezzz | Buffet lost a ton of cash | Sep 27 04:14 |
cubezzz | I seem to remember Gates getting close to 100 billion at one point | Sep 27 04:15 |
cubezzz | that's just scary :) | Sep 27 04:15 |
DaemonFC | no | Sep 27 04:19 |
DaemonFC | he's never been over $50 billion that I can recall | Sep 27 04:19 |
DaemonFC | still that's an awful lot of money | Sep 27 04:19 |
DaemonFC | more than any one person should be allowed to have | Sep 27 04:19 |
DaemonFC | :P | Sep 27 04:19 |
DaemonFC | if I had $50 billion I'd probably give most of it to my favorite charities | Sep 27 04:22 |
DaemonFC | leave myself a billion or so to live comfortably on | Sep 27 04:22 |
DaemonFC | I wouldn't know what to do with $50 billion | Sep 27 04:22 |
DaemonFC | I wouldn't die with all that in the bank though, that's for sure | Sep 27 04:23 |
DaemonFC | people like Buffett and Gates and Slim disgust me | Sep 27 04:23 |
DaemonFC | it's like they're competing to see who can die with the most money | Sep 27 04:23 |
twitter1 | here's a new way for corporate america to screw you. accidentally email sensitive information to you. the federal government will then kill your email without warning and disclose all of it to the bank. http://slashdot.org/submission/1080215/Federal-Judge-Orders-GMail-Account-Nuked-Over-Bank | Sep 27 04:24 |
twitter1 | Google took the time and energy to fight and lost. | Sep 27 04:25 |
twitter1 | Other ISPs would probably have complied without a fight. | Sep 27 04:25 |
twitter1 | The only real solution is to run your own mail server. | Sep 27 04:25 |
twitter1 | But ISPs forbid such things. | Sep 27 04:25 |
twitter1 | and most email is spam that comes from rooted Windoze boxes anyway. | Sep 27 04:26 |
DaemonFC | twitter, Get one on a server that's not in the US | Sep 27 04:26 |
DaemonFC | easy | Sep 27 04:26 |
Diablo-D3 | twitter1: whats really funny, though, is the account probably doesnt exist | Sep 27 04:27 |
cubezzz | that was gmail wasn't it? | Sep 27 04:27 |
DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, I think his point was that this could be your email, his, mine.... | Sep 27 04:27 |
cubezzz | they can't kill my email :) | Sep 27 04:27 |
cubezzz | twiitter1, I have my own email server | Sep 27 04:28 |
twitter1 | yes, it was gmail. they were forced to hand over contact information. | Sep 27 04:29 |
DaemonFC | and the bank was the one that screwed up | Sep 27 04:30 |
DaemonFC | that's just infuriating | Sep 27 04:30 |
twitter1 | so, those who suggested that I just get a gmail account for Slashdot submissions were not the best informed sources. | Sep 27 04:30 |
cubezzz | I always assume my mail can be read by others | Sep 27 04:30 |
twitter1 | anyone's gmail contact information is just an "accidental" email away from disclosure | Sep 27 04:30 |
twitter1 | you could encrypt your email, even using other people's servers | Sep 27 04:31 |
cubezzz | yes | Sep 27 04:31 |
twitter1 | the problem is that email is not as anonymous as people think it is. | Sep 27 04:31 |
twitter1 | publishing someone's email address is as good as publishing their name, it's a bad deal for whistle blowers | Sep 27 04:32 |
cubezzz | that's why I use IRC for my secret plans :-0 | Sep 27 04:32 |
twitter1 | Whistle blowers protect all of us from abuse. | Sep 27 04:33 |
twitter1 | Without anonymity, people who complain can be targeted for retaliation. | Sep 27 04:33 |
twitter1 | The bad guys already know who I am and actively work to smear me. | Sep 27 04:33 |
twitter1 | It's not a good feeling. | Sep 27 04:34 |
jono_ | DaemonFC, ? | Sep 27 04:34 |
jono_ | <DaemonFC> and how is having jono_ in here any better than having a Novell PR agent? | Sep 27 04:34 |
DaemonFC | exactly | Sep 27 04:34 |
twitter1 | are you employed by Novell, jono_? | Sep 27 04:35 |
DaemonFC | you guys are apologizing for Mono, pushing "cloud computing", and only supporting one architecture | Sep 27 04:35 |
DaemonFC | how is that better? | Sep 27 04:35 |
jono_ | twitter, no | Sep 27 04:35 |
jono_ | DaemonFC, we don't apologize for Mono, we merely support it because there is no significant reason not to, we do push the cloud, but thats because it is a huge opportunity and common in the marketplace and we support many archs (x86, AMD64, Arm, PowerPC) | Sep 27 04:36 |
*jono_ is now known as jono | Sep 27 04:36 | |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu has too many problems to use as my personal desktop OS | Sep 27 04:37 |
twitter1 | who is "we" jono and why don't you see the patent trap in mono? | Sep 27 04:37 |
DaemonFC | I pity the fool that depends on it professionally | Sep 27 04:37 |
jono | twitter, we is Canonical, the company I work for, and I see no significant patent trap for many reasons, and the Ubuntu project won't react to hearsay | Sep 27 04:38 |
jono | DaemonFC, what problems? | Sep 27 04:38 |
twitter1 | until M$ gives real assurances, you are supporting something on hearsay. | Sep 27 04:39 |
twitter1 | and blind faith. | Sep 27 04:39 |
jono | twitter, our patent policy is to deal with patent threats that are real as opposed to perceived | Sep 27 04:39 |
jono | twitter, dude, the same argument applies to the kernel | Sep 27 04:39 |
twitter1 | no, it does not | Sep 27 04:39 |
DaemonFC | GNOME et all, outdated packages for things like Vorbis encoding, bugs in the kernels you build, bugs in the Pulseaudio system | Sep 27 04:40 |
jono | IBM have got a patent for numbers and letters on screen at the same time | Sep 27 04:40 |
jono | does that mean we don't ship anything that could display numbers and letters? | Sep 27 04:40 |
twitter1 | IBM has never threatened free software. | Sep 27 04:40 |
jono | DaemonFC, why don't you help us make it better? | Sep 27 04:40 |
DaemonFC | well, Pulseaudio is another one of those things that is one giant problem masquerading as a slew of solutions | Sep 27 04:40 |
twitter1 | no one but M$ has pulled M$ stunts. | Sep 27 04:40 |
jono | twitter, that doesn't matter, it is still possible IBM can take us down | Sep 27 04:40 |
jono | and I see no difference between that argument between MS and IBM | Sep 27 04:40 |
DaemonFC | jono: Then there's the part where things like VLC are sabotaged and useless to me | Sep 27 04:41 |
jono | twitter, what MS stunts? | Sep 27 04:41 |
DaemonFC | unless I want to compile it myself (h.264 encoding is missing entirely) | Sep 27 04:41 |
jono | DaemonFC, so again, can you help us make things better? now is a great time to contribute to Karmic | Sep 27 04:41 |
jono | DaemonFC, maybe take part in bug triage so we can fix these issues? | Sep 27 04:41 |
twitter1 | SCO, the Novell/M$ and other company shakedowns, many many threats. | Sep 27 04:41 |
DaemonFC | a lot of TV tuners including mine have no drivers (that's an all around Linux problem) | Sep 27 04:41 |
twitter1 | I've made a log of M$ patent treats. Let me get it for you. | Sep 27 04:41 |
twitter1 | http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/219107 | Sep 27 04:42 |
jono | twitter, my point is that the argument against Mono is that we *could* be sued, and my argument is that applies to the entire stack | Sep 27 04:42 |
DaemonFC | jono, It's not really any one thing, it's just a lot of smaller issues that in themselves I'd probably ignore | Sep 27 04:42 |
twitter1 | I'm not making this stuff up, I'm not devious enough by half. | Sep 27 04:42 |
DaemonFC | but together they become a major usability problem | Sep 27 04:42 |
jono | DaemonFC, sure, and lots of these smaller things could be hugely improved if you contribute | Sep 27 04:42 |
jono | DaemonFC, let me know what you would like to work on and I could help you get started | Sep 27 04:42 |
DaemonFC | I wouldn't even know where to begin | Sep 27 04:43 |
jono | twitter, I am not suggesting you are, but to think that MS are the only people at risk of suing us is short-sighted | Sep 27 04:43 |
twitter1 | M$ is basically promising to sue free software vendors like Canonical. RMS described mono use as, "putting your head in the lion's jaws." | Sep 27 04:43 |
jono | DaemonFC, what kind of areas do you like to contribute to in Open Source? | Sep 27 04:43 |
jono | maybe I can help you get started? | Sep 27 04:43 |
cubezzz | ;-) | Sep 27 04:43 |
twitter1 | risk has to be weighed by probability. the chances of M$ suing you are basically 100% | Sep 27 04:44 |
DaemonFC | I wouldn't know how to contribute really, I just compile things for myself or use the Windows app in Wine if I'm feeling particularly lazy | Sep 27 04:44 |
twitter1 | the chances of others, like IBM suing are low. | Sep 27 04:44 |
jono | twitter, there is a big different between a company making noises and a company doing somethinhg, particularly when a company has shareholders to satisfy | Sep 27 04:44 |
jono | DaemonFC, it sounds like you have great skills to offer! | Sep 27 04:44 |
twitter1 | no other companies are even making noise. | Sep 27 04:44 |
jono | DaemonFC, have you ever thought about learning packaging? | Sep 27 04:44 |
cubezzz | jono, I did some porting to zaurus of gnu utilities | Sep 27 04:45 |
jono | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide | Sep 27 04:45 |
jono | cubezzz, thats awesome :) | Sep 27 04:45 |
jono | twitter, thats not the case | Sep 27 04:45 |
DaemonFC | had considered learning at one point | Sep 27 04:45 |
jono | twitter, many companies have an underlying patent threat | Sep 27 04:45 |
DaemonFC | I've made RPMs before if I couldn't find one | Sep 27 04:45 |
DaemonFC | I'm not familiar with creating Debian packages | Sep 27 04:45 |
twitter1 | yeah, but which companies are actively threatening? | Sep 27 04:45 |
jono | twitter, and to be frank, just because they make noise doesnt mean anything, if you think that way, you will spend more nights unhappy in your bed than happy | Sep 27 04:45 |
twitter1 | ha ha | Sep 27 04:46 |
jono | the same applies to the news, do you believe every possible threat on the news? | Sep 27 04:46 |
jono | twitter, I know your heart is the right place | Sep 27 04:46 |
jono | I respect the intention | Sep 27 04:46 |
cubezzz | jono, most of us don't trust Microsoft | Sep 27 04:46 |
twitter1 | no one trusts M$. | Sep 27 04:46 |
cubezzz | I've been around a while, so I know a bit about them | Sep 27 04:46 |
jono | and I believe in free software, but we need to also not just jump everytime they make a noise | Sep 27 04:46 |
twitter1 | you should also not jump everytime they make a second rate language like .NET | Sep 27 04:47 |
jono | cubezzz, sure, but remember MS are a huge companies, with *share holders* | Sep 27 04:47 |
twitter1 | there have to be payoffs for risk | Sep 27 04:47 |
jono | twitter, I don't believe I have done | Sep 27 04:47 |
jono | in fact, I don't believe I have ever jumped to Mono | Sep 27 04:47 |
twitter1 | mono is a risk with very little payoff | Sep 27 04:47 |
jono | and I instead promote and support Python | Sep 27 04:47 |
jono | and we write all our Ubuntu apps in Python | Sep 27 04:47 |
twitter1 | if that's so, why tell people that you "support mono"? | Sep 27 04:47 |
jono | twitter, it's not that we say we support mono, we just won't remove it until someone has a cast iron reason to | Sep 27 04:48 |
jono | and "people worried about patents" is not enough of a reason | Sep 27 04:48 |
twitter1 | why include it? | Sep 27 04:48 |
jono | we wrote a patent policy to outline this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PatentPolicy | Sep 27 04:48 |
twitter1 | and tomtom is not a good reason ;-) | Sep 27 04:48 |
jono | we are keen to explore threats, but we deal with rights holders | Sep 27 04:49 |
jono | twitter, we include it because there is no solid reason not to | Sep 27 04:49 |
jono | there is no cast iron reason other than paranoia to not include it | Sep 27 04:49 |
jono | and we simply won't sacrifice being able to ship some great apps such as TomBoy and F-Spot because of paranoia | Sep 27 04:49 |
jono | if people don't like that, just use another distro, there are plenty of options :) | Sep 27 04:49 |
twitter1 | the "rights holder" in mono is not interested in dealing, and you can see the pile of corpses from those who tried before | Sep 27 04:49 |
jono | if there *is* a significant patent threat, we will review it as per the published patent policy | Sep 27 04:50 |
jono | twitter, pile of corpses? dude, this is not From Dusk Till Dawn | Sep 27 04:50 |
jono | it's frigging software :) | Sep 27 04:50 |
cubezzz | well we can just yum uninstall :) | Sep 27 04:50 |
twitter1 | Canonical is a real company with real people like you making a living off it. | Sep 27 04:50 |
jono | twitter, hah, we don't live off Mono | Sep 27 04:50 |
cubezzz | yum remove rather | Sep 27 04:51 |
jono | we don't make any money from it | Sep 27 04:51 |
twitter1 | Other companies just as real and far more profitable than Canonical have been burnt trying to deal with M$. | Sep 27 04:51 |
jono | DaemonFC, sorry, I forgot to respond - if you have RPM experience, that is a great start for learning Debian packaging | Sep 27 04:51 |
*Diablo-D3 wonders who jono is | Sep 27 04:51 | |
jono | twitter, I disagree | Sep 27 04:51 |
jono | people have been burned, and I don'yt deny that | Sep 27 04:52 |
cubezzz | oh, Ubuntu guy | Sep 27 04:52 |
jono | and I don't deny MS have done some stupid things | Sep 27 04:52 |
Diablo-D3 | oh, boring | Sep 27 04:52 |
jono | but we simply won't remove Mono while there is a perceived threat | Sep 27 04:52 |
Diablo-D3 | jono: does ubuntu have mono in the default install? | Sep 27 04:52 |
jono | there are percieved threats throughout the stack - in the kernel, X and elsewhere, should we remove those too? | Sep 27 04:52 |
jono | DaemonFC, yep | Sep 27 04:52 |
jono | oops | Sep 27 04:52 |
jono | Diablo-D3, yep | Sep 27 04:52 |
cubezzz | damn, all we need now is zilog to show up :) | Sep 27 04:52 |
Diablo-D3 | wow, how wasteful | Sep 27 04:52 |
Diablo-D3 | there are no useful mono apps, why install it by default"? | Sep 27 04:53 |
jono | Diablo-D3, thats not true, TomBoy and F-Spot are awesome apps | Sep 27 04:53 |
jono | hence why we ship it | Sep 27 04:53 |
jono | if there were no good apps we wouldnt :) | Sep 27 04:53 |
twitter1 | jono, your users are not demanding mono http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/11/mono-in-ubuntu-backfires/ | Sep 27 04:53 |
Diablo-D3 | tomboy crashed all the times I tried to use it | Sep 27 04:53 |
Diablo-D3 | gnote is pretty superior to it | Sep 27 04:53 |
jono | twitter, hah, not quite | Sep 27 04:53 |
jono | we have way more users who don't care than do care | Sep 27 04:53 |
Diablo-D3 | and f-spot is not nearly as good as gthumb | Sep 27 04:53 |
jono | ok, well folks, feel free to use another distro :) | Sep 27 04:54 |
twitter1 | Roy has many other good articles about the threat mono is to free software http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aboycottnovell.com+mono&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 | Sep 27 04:54 |
Diablo-D3 | I do use another distro | Sep 27 04:54 |
jono | we know we can't make everyone happy | Sep 27 04:54 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu has a limited amount of space on the LiveCD jono, I'd throw Mono and friends overboard and replace them with better applications | Sep 27 04:54 |
Diablo-D3 | I think you've heard of the one I use | Sep 27 04:54 |
jono | so let's just agree to disagree | Sep 27 04:54 |
Diablo-D3 | its called debian | Sep 27 04:54 |
jono | Diablo-D3, cool :) | Sep 27 04:54 |
twitter1 | eek, I agree with DaemonFC | Sep 27 04:54 |
jono | debian is awesome :) | Sep 27 04:54 |
Diablo-D3 | Ive been using debian for almost 15 years | Sep 27 04:54 |
jono | well thanks for the chat, folks, I have to run | Sep 27 04:54 |
Diablo-D3 | why is it, back in the day, we didnt have this shit? | Sep 27 04:54 |
twitter1 | take care | Sep 27 04:54 |
jono | take care :) | Sep 27 04:54 |
cubezzz | later | Sep 27 04:54 |
Diablo-D3 | seeya jono | Sep 27 04:54 |
*jono slopes off :) | Sep 27 04:55 | |
twitter1 | Making a deal with M$ is like shaking hands with a shark. When you feel a slight tug, you had better look down to see if you still have a hand. | Sep 27 04:56 |
cubezzz | yeah remember Jaws :) | Sep 27 04:56 |
twitter1 | I've seen some better movies on Nature. | Sep 27 04:57 |
*jono has quit ("Later, Skater") | Sep 27 04:57 | |
twitter1 | surfboards with cameras | Sep 27 04:57 |
twitter1 | you get to see the great white power its way out of the gloomy depths and bang | Sep 27 04:57 |
DaemonFC | C# is not even an ANSI standard | Sep 27 04:58 |
DaemonFC | that's pretty hilarious | Sep 27 04:58 |
DaemonFC | it's easier to buy off the ISO and ECMA I guess | Sep 27 04:59 |
cubezzz | hmmm, interesting Debian was before Red Hat | Sep 27 05:04 |
DaemonFC | Debian is one of the oldest surviving distributions | Sep 27 05:05 |
DaemonFC | and predates Red Hat by 2 years I think | Sep 27 05:06 |
twitter1 | thriving | Sep 27 05:06 |
DaemonFC | well, there's so many distributions that stalled out and died | Sep 27 05:06 |
DaemonFC | hundreds of them | Sep 27 05:06 |
twitter1 | a free market is like that | Sep 27 05:06 |
DaemonFC | surviving is quite an accomplishment for a Linux distro | Sep 27 05:06 |
twitter1 | you would not judge restaurants to be a bad business model, but most go out of business in 5 years | Sep 27 05:07 |
cubezzz | well Tanenbaum was wrong | Sep 27 05:07 |
DaemonFC | twitter, there's also plenty of distros that almost nobody has any interest in that are propped up by one person | Sep 27 05:07 |
cubezzz | he predicted Hurd would replace Linux :) | Sep 27 05:07 |
DaemonFC | you can't float a failed restaurant around forever for free | Sep 27 05:07 |
DaemonFC | so comparing Linux to a restaurant is a bad idea | Sep 27 05:07 |
cubezzz | that's the cool thing though | Sep 27 05:08 |
DaemonFC | if you define success as you're the loss leader that isn't making any money but drawing in tons of users, Ubuntu is successful | Sep 27 05:08 |
cubezzz | you want to support it you can | Sep 27 05:08 |
twitter1 | I thought Canonical had broken even | Sep 27 05:08 |
DaemonFC | if you define success by how profitable the distro is, there's only maybe two or three that are a success | Sep 27 05:09 |
DaemonFC | twitter1, Canonical is running at a loss still | Sep 27 05:09 |
twitter1 | I define software success by how well it gets things done. Debian gets things done and will for the foreseeable future | Sep 27 05:09 |
DaemonFC | a very large money pit is what I pictured from the way Shuttleworth said that "We're not even close to breaking even" | Sep 27 05:09 |
twitter1 | that was a couple of years ago, I think | Sep 27 05:10 |
DaemonFC | twitter1, They still aren't breaking even | Sep 27 05:10 |
DaemonFC | they're reselling a lot of commercial software that has a big demand | Sep 27 05:10 |
twitter1 | Debian has a large community of developers and users that don't depend on money. | Sep 27 05:10 |
DaemonFC | their cut of the sale is not much though | Sep 27 05:10 |
DaemonFC | they're a little less of a money pit than they were two years ago but they're still a loss leader | Sep 27 05:11 |
twitter1 | anyway, if Ubuntu has money for you in packaging, go get it. | Sep 27 05:11 |
DaemonFC | twitter1, Debian has never wanted to make a profit, they just want to get the bills paid | Sep 27 05:11 |
DaemonFC | they've done it for 16 years | Sep 27 05:11 |
DaemonFC | I'd call Debian a success | Sep 27 05:11 |
twitter1 | right, Debian is a user driven distribution | Sep 27 05:12 |
twitter1 | it won't be going anywhere soon | Sep 27 05:12 |
DaemonFC | you have to define success by what the maintainer of the distro is trying to get out of it | Sep 27 05:12 |
twitter1 | them and the users | Sep 27 05:12 |
twitter1 | I don't think there's anyone else in the Debian equation | Sep 27 05:12 |
DaemonFC | I don't think many people feel as comfortable donating to a company (Canonical) as to a non profit foundations (Debian) | Sep 27 05:12 |
DaemonFC | you kind of expect a company to pay their own bills | Sep 27 05:13 |
cubezzz | Fedora and Embedix for me (so far) | Sep 27 05:13 |
DaemonFC | or to sell a product at a price people will pay | Sep 27 05:13 |
twitter1 | They should feel comfortable paying for Canonical services, that's what being a good company is all about. | Sep 27 05:13 |
DaemonFC | twitter1, that's the curse that every company pushing desktop Linux faces | Sep 27 05:14 |
twitter1 | Canonical is in a good position as M$'s monopoly crumbles. | Sep 27 05:14 |
DaemonFC | How do they compel you to pay for services? | Sep 27 05:14 |
DaemonFC | So far none have been able to solve that problem | Sep 27 05:14 |
twitter1 | Companies make money by providing a service worth paying for. | Sep 27 05:14 |
DaemonFC | Mandriva went bankrupt trying to figure out how to sell desktop Linux | Sep 27 05:14 |
twitter1 | The service industry for M$ is many times larger than M$ itself and there's no reason it could not swing over to free software. | Sep 27 05:15 |
twitter1 | In fact, there are many reasons for those companies to make the jump. Vista being #1 | Sep 27 05:15 |
DaemonFC | well, a lot of those companies are heavily dependent on Windows | Sep 27 05:16 |
twitter1 | Windows 7 will be a footnote proving what a failure Vista was in the first place. | Sep 27 05:16 |
cubezzz | people will pay for services they want or need | Sep 27 05:16 |
DaemonFC | but I suppose if Linux got more users, you'd need things like antivirus | Sep 27 05:16 |
twitter1 | not a chance | Sep 27 05:16 |
DaemonFC | because attackers would start exploiting the lax attitude that Linux takes to security | Sep 27 05:16 |
twitter1 | Windows suffers infections and viruses from problems that have nothing to do with GNU/Linux | Sep 27 05:16 |
cubezzz | DaemonFC, my server is attacked all the time, they never get though | Sep 27 05:17 |
DaemonFC | like that security hole that's existed since the 2.4 kernels and jsut got fixed last month | Sep 27 05:17 |
twitter1 | we've been through this many times before FC. | Sep 27 05:17 |
twitter1 | don't troll us again | Sep 27 05:17 |
DaemonFC | the reason the people divulged the exploit code was cause they got tired of Torvalds insisting that it was not serious | Sep 27 05:17 |
twitter1 | please knock off the BS. | Sep 27 05:17 |
cubezzz | this one's for Diablo-D3 | Sep 27 05:18 |
cubezzz | http://www.darkandpink.com/comics/20080325.gif | Sep 27 05:18 |
DaemonFC | some of these industries that profit off Windows would transition to Linux if that's where the users went | Sep 27 05:18 |
DaemonFC | cause users draw attackers | Sep 27 05:18 |
twitter1 | sigh. | Sep 27 05:18 |
*twitter1 ignores DaemonFC | Sep 27 05:18 | |
DaemonFC | well, very little has changed, visibly, in an Ubuntu desktop since 3 years ago | Sep 27 05:20 |
DaemonFC | and in some cases the default setup has gotten worse | Sep 27 05:20 |
DaemonFC | the whole thing just feels kind of flimsy and designed by committee, apparmor and things like Empathy are just "wtf?" decisions | Sep 27 05:21 |
*wallclimber (n=ozma@ip98-165-33-243.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 27 05:22 | |
*wallclimber has quit (Client Quit) | Sep 27 05:22 | |
DaemonFC | http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10361785-16.html | Sep 27 05:24 |
DaemonFC | more Matt Asay :) | Sep 27 05:24 |
cubezzz | Free software is not dead | Sep 27 05:28 |
cubezzz | gnu is not dead | Sep 27 05:28 |
cubezzz | so much for Asay | Sep 27 05:29 |
DaemonFC | yeah, I kind of faded out when he got to interoperability | Sep 27 05:31 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More #GNU #Linux Development in #India (Gujarati) http://bit.ly/1rfPJ | Sep 27 05:32 | |
DaemonFC | if Microsoft were to be so kind as to publish all their protocols, file formats, etc, there would be interoperability | Sep 27 05:32 |
cubezzz | he's trying to diminish Stallman's influence | Sep 27 05:32 |
DaemonFC | they don't publish all that which should tell you that they are not serious | Sep 27 05:32 |
cubezzz | here's a good comment: | Sep 27 05:33 |
DaemonFC | that's been my main problem with Microsoft all along, obfuscated protocols and file formats | Sep 27 05:33 |
cubezzz | "if it's Free (GPL etc) licensed they know they won't ever have to pay someone else to use their own improved code, which would be galling." | Sep 27 05:33 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #libtheora 1.1 (of #Ogg #Theora ) Released http://bit.ly/zEWSE http://bit.ly/2eSZ9w | Sep 27 05:34 | |
DaemonFC | cubezzz, WMA, OOXML, SMB, etc. are kind of like blowing up bridges and poisoning wells | Sep 27 05:34 |
cubezzz | anyways, he's just trying to be provocative | Sep 27 05:34 |
cubezzz | I don't actually fine WMA to be _too_ much of a problem | Sep 27 05:34 |
DaemonFC | they're just there to obstruct and harass Microsoft competitors | Sep 27 05:34 |
cubezzz | but smb yes, that is a problem | Sep 27 05:35 |
cubezzz | find | Sep 27 05:35 |
cubezzz | the GPL matters | Sep 27 05:35 |
DaemonFC | if you can use Vorbis, go for it | Sep 27 05:35 |
cubezzz | Stallman was right | Sep 27 05:35 |
DaemonFC | if you can't use Vorbis, use MPEG-4 AAC | Sep 27 05:35 |
DaemonFC | I never use Windows Media | Sep 27 05:36 |
DaemonFC | if a file is only available in Windows Media, I won't take the file | Sep 27 05:36 |
DaemonFC | even though I have Windows | Sep 27 05:36 |
cubezzz | he and others are blurring the issues here | Sep 27 05:37 |
DaemonFC | the fact that people are ignorant enough to actually use it really offends me | Sep 27 05:37 |
cubezzz | a lot of people confuse open source and FOSS | Sep 27 05:37 |
DaemonFC | well, if you can avoid making a fuss, you probably should | Sep 27 05:37 |
DaemonFC | especially if the stuff the company releases is GPL or BSD licensed | Sep 27 05:38 |
DaemonFC | who cares what term they use? | Sep 27 05:38 |
DaemonFC | it's still free | Sep 27 05:38 |
cubezzz | I'm not sure that the open source guys use the GPL | Sep 27 05:38 |
DaemonFC | cubezzz, If you gave me $100,000 and insisted on calling it a pile of horse shit, I would certainly not argue | Sep 27 05:39 |
DaemonFC | I don't know why the free software crowd always does try to pick a fight | Sep 27 05:39 |
cubezzz | I'm not FSF but I am a FOSS "believer" and user | Sep 27 05:39 |
DaemonFC | good for you | Sep 27 05:39 |
DaemonFC | I'm not going to insist on a political term for something that is what it is | Sep 27 05:40 |
cubezzz | that's a specious statement | Sep 27 05:40 |
cubezzz | what I mean is the GPL protects _your_ _code_ | Sep 27 05:41 |
cubezzz | BSD license does NOT | Sep 27 05:41 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] UK Government Accused of Holding Free(dom) Software Back http://bit.ly/Ldm18 http://bit.ly/3ALMqk | Sep 27 05:41 | |
DaemonFC | well, the code is licensed however the author of the code licensed it | Sep 27 05:41 |
twitter1 | GPL protects your code and yourself and your users | Sep 27 05:41 |
DaemonFC | BSD is fine | Sep 27 05:41 |
DaemonFC | BSD is a free software license | Sep 27 05:41 |
DaemonFC | even by Stallman's "four freedoms" definition, BSD gives you free software | Sep 27 05:42 |
cubezzz | people who want to take GPL code and not release the source to their changes. They want to take code but not return the favor. Right? | Sep 27 05:44 |
DaemonFC | the only real difference between BSD and GPL is that BSD gives you the freedom to share | Sep 27 05:44 |
DaemonFC | GPL makes it mandatory | Sep 27 05:44 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Intel Chips Turn More #Evil http://bit.ly/tcz5H | Sep 27 05:45 | |
cubezzz | ok, well I wouldn't release code under the BSD license | Sep 27 05:45 |
vcent | you dont have to share you code if you use the GPL | Sep 27 05:45 |
DaemonFC | mandatory is kind of the opposite of freedom | Sep 27 05:45 |
DaemonFC | if my work calls and tells me there will be a mandatory meeting, that means that I have the freedom to go to the meeting or get fired? | Sep 27 05:46 |
DaemonFC | that's not freedom, it's mandatory, a compulsion | Sep 27 05:47 |
cubezzz | But if you release the modified version to the public in some way, the GPL requires you to make the modified source code available to the program's users, under the GPL. | Sep 27 05:47 |
DaemonFC | therefore, the GPL could be said to be the opposite of freedom by compelling you to share your modifications under the threat of being sued | Sep 27 05:47 |
DaemonFC | BSD gives you the freedom to do your own thing with the code | Sep 27 05:48 |
DaemonFC | there have been a few high profile examples of companies like Microsoft or Apple using BSD licensed code, but they complied with the author's requirements | Sep 27 05:49 |
DaemonFC | generally, it's not smart to make a massive fork even if you can get away with it and make the resulting product proprietary | Sep 27 05:49 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Obama Makes the #RIAA / #MPAA Happy http://bit.ly/2PZxRi | Sep 27 05:50 | |
cubezzz | I don't have any big problem with BSD | Sep 27 05:52 |
cubezzz | I just wouldn't release code under the BSD license | Sep 27 05:52 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #IntellectualMonopolies Advocates Use Lies to Promote Agenda http://techdirt.com/articles/20090925/0811426323.shtml | Sep 27 05:53 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeFoftware FUD Relies on Ignorance http://bit.ly/16T3WI | Sep 27 05:53 | |
DaemonFC | FreeBSD is a good operating system, and there's nothing wrong with using it or contributing code to it under the BSD license | Sep 27 05:53 |
vcent | bsd gives you more freedom that GPL, , plus if you have to spend your life explaining the definition of the word "FREE" to everyone, there is something wron. | Sep 27 05:53 |
vcent | wrong* | Sep 27 05:53 |
DaemonFC | well, if I made a program and licensed it BSD and Microsoft or Apple uses it, then I shouldn't have a problem with that | Sep 27 05:54 |
DaemonFC | cause I knew it might happen | Sep 27 05:54 |
DaemonFC | and why should I discriminate against them more than any other person or business? | Sep 27 05:55 |
cubezzz | exactly why I wouldn't use the BSD license | Sep 27 05:55 |
vcent | so you would never use a Mac | Sep 27 05:55 |
vcent | or apple | Sep 27 05:56 |
cubezzz | that's correct | Sep 27 05:56 |
vcent | same here LOL | Sep 27 05:56 |
DaemonFC | I would, probably not at the price point they're at | Sep 27 05:57 |
DaemonFC | I don't have anything against their system though | Sep 27 05:57 |
cubezzz | I would use BSD as a server though | Sep 27 05:57 |
cubezzz | but for releasing my own code I would almost certainly use the GPL | Sep 27 05:58 |
vcent | I find the GPL limiting, and giving me less freedoms that other licenses, I think it's what i holding the GPL back to some degree. | Sep 27 05:58 |
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cubezzz | well, I can only speak for myself | Sep 27 05:58 |
cubezzz | if someone else wants to use the BSD license they can | Sep 27 05:58 |
vcent | that would be a good freedom, | Sep 27 05:59 |
cubezzz | yes, the author decides | Sep 27 06:00 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft CEO: We Screwed up with Windows Mobile http://bit.ly/45Amj8 | Sep 27 06:01 | |
twitter1 | ut oh, the aptly named skud has homed in on Bruce Perens. http://geekfeminism.org/2009/08/27/women-in-floss-tell-bruce-perens-you-exist/ | Sep 27 06:12 |
twitter1 | Perens got caught up in the RMS attack and was trolled here http://lwn.net/Articles/348459/ | Sep 27 06:15 |
twitter1 | most of what he says makes sense and is what any sensible person would think | Sep 27 06:15 |
twitter1 | Wow, here's what Bruce thought at the time -> IMO, someone who espoused that sort of feeling during RMS talk was primed for this to happen before it did, looking for a fight, and towed any number of people looking to be politically correct along with them. I saw Lefty at the Community Summit and he was totally sickly nonlinear about this. He had a cry in his voice the whole time he explained it to me, and ran off in a huff when I didn't buy it. | Sep 27 06:16 |
schestowitz | Attempts to diminish RMS' influence | Sep 27 06:21 |
schestowitz | Asay too | Sep 27 06:21 |
schestowitz | Nothing new | Sep 27 06:21 |
schestowitz | These are people who never liked Free software, do they jump on opportunities to slime | Sep 27 06:21 |
schestowitz | Susan did it with Shuttleworth | Sep 27 06:21 |
schestowitz | She had disdain for Ubuntu, so she saw the open letter to MarkS and used it as "reason" | Sep 27 06:22 |
schestowitz | Let's keep up the good fight and not pay attention to trolling like Asay's | Sep 27 06:22 |
schestowitz | BN made the FP of Reddit for defending RMS yesterday | Sep 27 06:22 |
twitter1 | Uhhh, this is a new attack on Bruce Perens. | Sep 27 06:24 |
twitter1 | what Bruce also said and meant -> I suspect gender-based differences in interest, and do not have a good call on how much of this is nature vs. nurture. | Sep 27 06:28 |
twitter1 | -> I am not yet accepting that the reason that the other women stay away is that women are too weak to counter the social issues. | Sep 27 06:29 |
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twitter1 | here he is, after about 25 posts, talking to skud. this is an interesting and new accusation. http://lwn.net/Articles/349399/ | Sep 27 06:33 |
twitter1 | he claims people are paid to act like free software community members, just to make the free software community look bad! | Sep 27 06:33 |
twitter1 | -> The reason I am asking is that I have had people do similar stuff to me, and when I've explored I find that they have no real connection to any project and are more likely someone who is paid to make us look bad. | Sep 27 06:34 |
twitter1 | Bruce should know about these things. | Sep 27 06:34 |
twitter1 | -> Thanks for the data, I am really not trying to have a head in sand. My point was that there are too few women participating. That is equally true if there are 2000 rather than 200. It seems that things would be different if there were 20,000 and more different with 200,000. I am still trying to understand why, so few are participating, and I thank you for the assistance with articles. | Sep 27 06:41 |
twitter1 | lefty harrasses Bruce about the Virgin of Emacs http://lwn.net/Articles/353781/ | Sep 27 06:42 |
twitter1 | I did not know this about Bruce http://lwn.net/Articles/348714/ | Sep 27 06:43 |
twitter1 | Bruce really thinks that women are not interested in free software and he also thinks that women are not interested in working on software without reward. He's not sure why, so the quote used against him is taken out of context. | Sep 27 06:52 |
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twitter1 | hmmm, lots of bad stuff here http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_incidents | Sep 27 07:04 |
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christizo | hi | Sep 27 07:10 |
christizo | i r come here to say | Sep 27 07:10 |
christizo | gimme all your moniez | Sep 27 07:11 |
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twitter1 | christizo was not a very good salesman | Sep 27 07:16 |
schestowitz | Just done watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I5Fl1Qn-Do&feature=PlayList&p=C2A021D1A1CBD633&index=0 | Sep 27 07:31 |
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schestowitz | http://mpwoodward.posterous.com/richard-stallman-is-not-the-bad-guy-boycott-n | Sep 27 07:49 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @madhusudancs: #pyconindia Logo and T-Shirt is reappy (yes I am aware of the typo) bad. | Sep 27 07:51 | |
nice commentary from woodward | Sep 27 08:04 | |
schestowitz | http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/lessig-fsfs-intro.html | Sep 27 08:05 |
Yeah, I have a signed copy of that book on my shelf. :) | Sep 27 08:15 | |
schestowitz | Meh. My borther has just been accepted at Intel. | Sep 27 08:16 |
schestowitz | Like my brother in law | Sep 27 08:17 |
accepted as what? | Sep 27 08:17 | |
schestowitz | And here I am blasting them | Sep 27 08:17 |
schestowitz | twitter: job | Sep 27 08:17 |
schestowitz | programmer | Sep 27 08:17 |
interesting | Sep 27 08:17 | |
they will watch him like a hawk so that he does not tell you too much | Sep 27 08:17 | |
he might be lucky enough to work on Intel's free software | Sep 27 08:18 | |
cubezzz | what's wrong with intel? | Sep 27 08:18 |
schestowitz | Hehe | Sep 27 08:18 |
schestowitz | What's not? | Sep 27 08:18 |
see OLPC, recent convictions and fines by EU, use of Palestinian land, etc. | Sep 27 08:19 | |
I have two siblings who work in the "gaming" industry. | Sep 27 08:19 | |
schestowitz | Intel is busy doing good.......... money | Sep 27 08:20 |
schestowitz | All else -- to hell with it | Sep 27 08:20 |
schestowitz | Bribery is OK if it pays off for shareholders | Sep 27 08:20 |
Golden skeletons in the closet? | Sep 27 08:20 | |
Yesmen reference | Sep 27 08:21 | |
cubezzz | invented the cpu :) | Sep 27 08:21 |
cubezzz | sorry, microprocessor | Sep 27 08:21 |
they made one, I'm not sure you can attribute invention | Sep 27 08:21 | |
cubezzz | ok, so which manufacturer of cpus should we be supporting? | Sep 27 08:22 |
schestowitz | twitter: I'm not in a position to tell siblings what to do, sadly | Sep 27 08:23 |
schestowitz | I don't try, either | Sep 27 08:23 |
Neither am I, lol | Sep 27 08:23 | |
schestowitz | My sister went to some interview at MSFT, but she works for GE, which isn't a lot more ethical, either | Sep 27 08:24 |
The question is what use you can make of it. | Sep 27 08:24 | |
cubezzz | what's your alternative to intel? | Sep 27 08:24 |
I was trying to answer that ... | Sep 27 08:24 | |
schestowitz | China has some ghood chips j/k | Sep 27 08:24 |
but I don't have a good answer | Sep 27 08:24 | |
schestowitz | Seriously though, the Chinese chips (not just manufacturing) are likely to take over like everything else, over the dcades | Sep 27 08:25 |
Chinese companies are terrible to their employers | Sep 27 08:25 | |
schestowitz | They already make decent $75 PCs | Sep 27 08:25 |
schestowitz | Maybe a CHinese company will buy INTC some day | Sep 27 08:25 |
They will take over everything if we keep trading. The situation will normalize when we are as poor and without rights as people in China are. | Sep 27 08:26 | |
schestowitz | Like the Arabic nations bought big stakes in AMD | Sep 27 08:26 |
schestowitz | That's where the money is (the east) | Sep 27 08:26 |
AMD is a good company | Sep 27 08:26 | |
schestowitz | The LOANED money is in the west | Sep 27 08:26 |
from what I can see. | Sep 27 08:26 | |
schestowitz | AMD do some bad things too | Sep 27 08:26 |
Their chips always perform better than Intel. | Sep 27 08:26 | |
RMS is now using a MIPS based laptop, from what I read on gnu config | Sep 27 08:27 | |
schestowitz | In power cunsumption maybe | Sep 27 08:27 |
schestowitz | Isn't he on a thinkpad? | Sep 27 08:28 |
schestowitz | He tried OLPC | Sep 27 08:28 |
cubezzz | I think panasonic has a cpu too | Sep 27 08:28 |
schestowitz | Lenovo only do x86, afaik | Sep 27 08:28 |
schestowitz | And wait.... | Sep 27 08:28 |
no, the last I read he had mved to the "completely free" MIPS laptop | Sep 27 08:28 | |
schestowitz | Lenovo IIRC were among those with Intel's kickbacks | Sep 27 08:28 |
cubezzz | Lemote? | Sep 27 08:28 |
schestowitz | I.e. accomplices in a crime | Sep 27 08:28 |
awww, can't find it. I got the link from here..... | Sep 27 08:29 | |
cubezzz | there probably are a few other cpu manufacturers we aren't thinking about | Sep 27 08:31 |
cubezzz | matsushita, samsung... | Sep 27 08:31 |
cubezzz | http://www.happytrees.org/chips?page=manufacturer&manufacturer=Matsushita | Sep 27 08:32 |
Texas Instruments, Motorola, IBM, | Sep 27 08:32 | |
schestowitz | Are chips still being manufactured in the US? | Sep 27 08:33 |
for bombs, I'm sure | Sep 27 08:34 | |
cubezzz | lol, oh well everything's fine then | Sep 27 08:34 |
cubezzz | looking... | Sep 27 08:36 |
The US/China merger is not so complete that the US would turn over weapons production to China. | Sep 27 08:37 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Novell Customers Complain About New Charges http://bit.ly/14USI4 | Sep 27 08:37 | |
the US still does a better job of that. | Sep 27 08:37 | |
schestowitz | Chips for bombs? | Sep 27 08:37 |
schestowitz | Don't they use generic chips? | Sep 27 08:37 |
I'm sure the Pentagon has made sure there are enough domestic fabs for their own needs. | Sep 27 08:38 | |
cubezzz | Intel has manufacturing bases in many countries such as Singapore, United States and Philippine. However, most laptop chips are made in USA. Therefore, the laptops assembled in China very likely have Intel CPUs made in USA. | Sep 27 08:39 |
IBM used to make things here too.... | Sep 27 08:42 | |
it's late here, gn | Sep 27 08:42 | |
cubezzz | Freescale CPU is a possibility | Sep 27 08:43 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #LiMo Phones to Avoid: #Vodafone 360 H1 (Samsung) http://bit.ly/3EdjLv | Sep 27 09:18 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] http://pic.gd/6b5e49 #inpycon tshirt is reappy bad. See @playingwithsid's tshirt with @hfactors patches applied. | Sep 27 09:30 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Lengthy Rebuttals to #ZDNet ’s Anti- #FreeSoftware Rhetorics http://bit.ly/sShMN | Sep 27 09:39 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] New Blog Post - “Trust Me, I’m A Politician” http://tinyurl.com/ydblo5l | Sep 27 09:56 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] SCO, Stephen Norris, the Bush Family, and Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal Al Saud http://ping.fm/nKYH4 | Sep 27 10:40 | |
oiaohm | Hmm KDE did well this summer of code. | Sep 27 10:47 |
oiaohm | Only 1 project did not get completed in the time frame. | Sep 27 10:47 |
oiaohm | KDE 4.4 is kinda going to have lots of new features. | Sep 27 10:48 |
schestowitz | What for example? | Sep 27 10:55 |
schestowitz | BTW, they fix bugs as we go along.Konversation has new features in this beta | Sep 27 10:55 |
oiaohm | Ok for warped 3d maps in kolf to pay on schestowitz | Sep 27 10:56 |
oiaohm | http://dot.kde.org/2009/09/26/what-i-did-my-summer-holiday Lot of old things. | Sep 27 10:57 |
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_Hicham_ | hi all! | Sep 27 11:05 |
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oiaohm | _Hicham_: there is a scary bench mark out there. Ubuntu 9.10 on solid state drive with a 2 ghz duel core. Booted in 5 seconds. | Sep 27 11:24 |
oiaohm | _Hicham_: no tweaking. | Sep 27 11:25 |
_Hicham_ | oiaohm : where ? | Sep 27 11:25 |
_Hicham_ | oiaohm : I mean the url ? | Sep 27 11:25 |
oiaohm | I have to find it again. | Sep 27 11:26 |
oiaohm | I saw it today somewhere _Hicham_ | Sep 27 11:26 |
_Hicham_ | then they must have grabbed the patches from intel | Sep 27 11:27 |
oiaohm | No | Sep 27 11:27 |
trmanco | it was on phoronix | Sep 27 11:28 |
oiaohm | Note that is not even 100 percent usage of ram and diskreads. | Sep 27 11:28 |
trmanco | no | Sep 27 11:28 |
trmanco | ARS Tecnica | Sep 27 11:28 |
oiaohm | http://static.arstechnica.com/watson-karmic-20090909-3.png Yep there it is. | Sep 27 11:29 |
phIRCe | Title: Not a web page! Aborting... .::. Size~: Too big! | Sep 27 11:29 |
oiaohm | LOL | Sep 27 11:29 |
oiaohm | The bootchart still shows tones of room for improvement | Sep 27 11:30 |
oiaohm | 2 to 3 seconds should be possiable in time. | Sep 27 11:30 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] If Microsoft is Right About Vista 7 Being So Great, Then Why Are the ‘Yes Men’ Usually Paid? http://ping.fm/4a5OQ | Sep 27 11:31 | |
phIRCe | Title: If Microsoft is Right About Vista 7 Being So Great, Then Why Are the Yes Men Usually Paid? | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 108.19 KB | Sep 27 11:31 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] The Importance Of Being Nice | The Digital Prism http://tinyurl.com/ya24ewy | Sep 27 11:32 | |
schestowitz | oiaohm: just bootinh | Sep 27 11:32 |
schestowitz | How long does it take to start an x session with somehting useful? | Sep 27 11:32 |
schestowitz | How about daemons? | Sep 27 11:32 |
schestowitz | It's all very symbolic | Sep 27 11:33 |
schestowitz | Heck, BIOS takes longer than this | Sep 27 11:33 |
oiaohm | schestowitz: that is X11 server up. | Sep 27 11:33 |
oiaohm | And background deamons. | Sep 27 11:33 |
_Hicham_ | oiaohm : there is also xulrunner loaded in bootchart | Sep 27 11:33 |
oiaohm | So how long gnome or kde screws around on top of that. | Sep 27 11:33 |
oiaohm | The bootchart has not been cleaned for speed. | Sep 27 11:34 |
ThistleWeb | schestowitz: I've sorted out the rss feeds on my blog btw so feel free to add the tech feed if you like | Sep 27 11:34 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: not to do much with Linux | Sep 27 11:34 |
schestowitz | KDE is not Linux | Sep 27 11:34 |
schestowitz | it also does BSD | Sep 27 11:34 |
schestowitz | But I try to put in proportion this whole thing | Sep 27 11:34 |
oiaohm | Basically that boot chart is to login screen. | Sep 27 11:34 |
schestowitz | It's like saying, I'm flying to Washingon for a 4-hour interview | Sep 27 11:35 |
schestowitz | How long is the flight? | Sep 27 11:35 |
schestowitz | Overnight stay, etc. | Sep 27 11:35 |
oiaohm | Light wm under 1 second. | Sep 27 11:35 |
_Hicham_ | oiaohm : firefox should start instantly on ubuntu since xulrunner is loaded early | Sep 27 11:35 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: yes, it does | Sep 27 11:36 |
schestowitz | Firefox starts fast here | Sep 27 11:36 |
schestowitz | 9.10 | Sep 27 11:36 |
oiaohm | Its preloaded | Sep 27 11:36 |
oiaohm | If you were cutting for speed you would remove preloading firefox. | Sep 27 11:36 |
_Hicham_ | nice trick from ubuntu karmic | Sep 27 11:36 |
_Hicham_ | oiaohm : I wouldn't recommend that for a firefox user | Sep 27 11:36 |
schestowitz | Karmic sounds like a KDE release | Sep 27 11:37 |
oiaohm | 22 seconds on a normal harddrive. | Sep 27 11:37 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : why? | Sep 27 11:37 |
oiaohm | Not bad. | Sep 27 11:37 |
schestowitz | Ubuntu 9.10 should be Garmic | Sep 27 11:37 |
oiaohm | It starts with K of course _Hicham_ | Sep 27 11:37 |
schestowitz | Ubuntu 9.10 codename Garmic Onion | Sep 27 11:37 |
oiaohm | Now if next ubuntu could get down to 10 seconds on a normal harddrive. | Sep 27 11:38 |
oiaohm | I really don't want to see where the solid state will be. | Sep 27 11:38 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : codename is made of two names starting with the same letter | Sep 27 11:38 |
schestowitz | I know | Sep 27 11:38 |
oiaohm | Ok most likely on solid state what boot. | Sep 27 11:38 |
oiaohm | I saw no boot. | Sep 27 11:38 |
schestowitz | 10.10 Mighty Mouse will be a perfect 10 | Sep 27 11:38 |
_Hicham_ | oiaohm : with plymouth and KMS things will be even faster | Sep 27 11:38 |
oiaohm | Between now and Mighty Mouse Linux kernel will have great lag locating featurs. | Sep 27 11:39 |
oiaohm | Linux debuging will have at last almost caught up to solarias. | Sep 27 11:40 |
oiaohm | Yes Solarias has been the bench in OS core debuging with there all powerful dtrace | Sep 27 11:40 |
oiaohm | These coming changes explain lInus call to arms over bloat. | Sep 27 11:41 |
schestowitz | Fool: http://www.secuobs.com/revue/news/144756.shtml | Sep 27 11:41 |
oiaohm | RMS is both good and bad. | Sep 27 11:44 |
oiaohm | More often good. | Sep 27 11:44 |
schestowitz | Why is a promotional VIsta7 blog being added to Google 'News' aggregator? http://windows7news.com/2009/09/26/windows-and-mac-held-back-by-marketshare/ | Sep 27 11:44 |
oiaohm | But the open source world would be boring without RMS causing trouble. | Sep 27 11:44 |
phIRCe | Title: Windows and Mac - Held Back By Marketshare? | Windows 7 News .::. Size~: 172.66 KB | Sep 27 11:44 |
schestowitz | "This is why Windows and the Mac OS will always obtain new features after GNU/Linux." | Sep 27 11:44 |
oiaohm | Its why when Linux catchs up in particular weak areas it will just walk over Windows and Mac OS. | Sep 27 11:46 |
oiaohm | Faster turn arounds. | Sep 27 11:47 |
_Hicham_ | 5 seconds to boot is really scary | Sep 27 11:47 |
oiaohm | Particularly when its a no optimsied 5 second boot. | Sep 27 11:48 |
_Hicham_ | oiaohm : and loading xulrunner also ! | Sep 27 11:48 |
trmanco | a 1 second boot would be scary | Sep 27 11:48 |
oiaohm | There are optimised Linuxs that can do a 0.5 second trmanco | Sep 27 11:49 |
_Hicham_ | what shocked me is the xulrunner thing | Sep 27 11:49 |
_Hicham_ | wow | Sep 27 11:49 |
trmanco | but that is without any form of a gui | Sep 27 11:49 |
oiaohm | That is with GUI trmanco | Sep 27 11:49 |
oiaohm | Its a cheat. | Sep 27 11:49 |
trmanco | no bios? | Sep 27 11:49 |
oiaohm | One mother of a flash block. | Sep 27 11:49 |
oiaohm | With OS in it saved stated. | Sep 27 11:49 |
oiaohm | And basically no bios. | Sep 27 11:50 |
oiaohm | Used in aircraft controls trmanco | Sep 27 11:50 |
oiaohm | You don't want them taking long to reboot. | Sep 27 11:50 |
trmanco | aren't aircrafts java? | Sep 27 11:50 |
oiaohm | Not for nav controls trmanco | Sep 27 11:51 |
_Hicham_ | aircrafts can't use java | Sep 27 11:51 |
oiaohm | Java is too slow to fire up compared to prebuilt binaries. | Sep 27 11:51 |
_Hicham_ | java isn't used in mission critical stuff | Sep 27 11:51 |
oiaohm | You do find some aircrafts with java for in aircraft entertainment systems. | Sep 27 11:51 |
oiaohm | Ie not important parts. | Sep 27 11:51 |
vcent | They use Ada mostly in aircraft. | Sep 27 11:52 |
oiaohm | 0.5 is about the max you can do. | Sep 27 11:52 |
oiaohm | vcent: its mixed. | Sep 27 11:52 |
oiaohm | Ada C C++ | Sep 27 11:53 |
oiaohm | Are the most common 3. | Sep 27 11:53 |
oiaohm | 0.5 most of that time is syncing with hardware. | Sep 27 11:53 |
oiaohm | So to go any faster would require some design of hardware we don't have yet. | Sep 27 11:54 |
oiaohm | 5 seconds is 4.5 seconds above hard limit. | Sep 27 11:54 |
oiaohm | Said part is 14 seconds out of the adverage 22 second start up of ubuntu 9.10 on a harddrive is the X11 server. | Sep 27 11:56 |
oiaohm | http://static.arstechnica.com/rukia-karmic-20090917-2.png Lot of room for impovement here. | Sep 27 11:58 |
phIRCe | Title: Not a web page! Aborting... .::. Size~: Too big! | Sep 27 11:58 |
oiaohm | Far too much time spent in io wait | Sep 27 11:59 |
schestowitz | Sad shills: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2009/09/prweb2915664.htm | Sep 27 12:06 |
schestowitz | trmanco: Linux already boots in 1 second | Sep 27 12:07 |
schestowitz | Or less | Sep 27 12:07 |
schestowitz | Since a long time ago | Sep 27 12:07 |
schestowitz | There's also MontaVista's recent demo of it | Sep 27 12:07 |
schestowitz | If you google it, you'll see | Sep 27 12:07 |
schestowitz | Oh, I see oiaohm beat me to it | Sep 27 12:07 |
schestowitz | [11:49] <oiaohm> There are optimised Linuxs that can do a 0.5 second trmanco | Sep 27 12:07 |
schestowitz | Xbox has been getting HEAPS of bad news this wek | Sep 27 12:08 |
trmanco | my router is monta ista | Sep 27 12:09 |
trmanco | montavista* | Sep 27 12:09 |
trmanco | it's a mips at 300 mhz | Sep 27 12:10 |
trmanco | it takes about 3 seconds to boot | Sep 27 12:10 |
oiaohm | Put that on a 8 core 2 ghz arm trmanco you will be under 1 . | Sep 27 12:10 |
trmanco | I'm sure it will | Sep 27 12:11 |
trmanco | it has 16 mb of ram | Sep 27 12:11 |
oiaohm | The insanity that is coming. | Sep 27 12:11 |
trmanco | and 2 mb of archive | Sep 27 12:11 |
oiaohm | Devices starting in 1. | Sep 27 12:11 |
oiaohm | OS's starting in 5. | Sep 27 12:11 |
trmanco | where the kernel and the utils sit | Sep 27 12:11 |
oiaohm | and 10 if you have to use harddisk. | Sep 27 12:12 |
schestowitz | http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/operatingsystems/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=220200062 | Sep 27 12:12 |
phIRCe | Title: Windows 7 Freebies For Twitter Fans -- InformationWeek .::. Size~: 91.75 KB | Sep 27 12:12 |
oiaohm | Fast boot patches most likely would have got 9.10 under 10 | Sep 27 12:12 |
oiaohm | Problem is they also causes crashes. | Sep 27 12:12 |
oiaohm | Ie lets forget about these locks. | Sep 27 12:12 |
oiaohm | And pray. | Sep 27 12:13 |
oiaohm | That is what is going to be funny. MS spent a lot of money speeding windows 7 up. They are still behind. | Sep 27 12:13 |
oiaohm | and by the time people are going to be changing over they are going to be light years behind. | Sep 27 12:13 |
oiaohm | LOL schestowitz MS must be getting critical to get sales. | Sep 27 12:14 |
oiaohm | Sad part is MS might give away more money than they make in sales. | Sep 27 12:15 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Ainda estou a pensar em quem devo votar... Qual é o partido mais amigo do SL? | Sep 27 12:15 | |
trmanco | wtf are sieve scripts | Sep 27 12:18 |
trmanco | Sieve (mail filtering language) | Sep 27 12:18 |
trmanco | :O | Sep 27 12:19 |
trmanco | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieve_%28mail_filtering_language%29 | Sep 27 12:19 |
phIRCe | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KB | Sep 27 12:19 |
trmanco | this might be usefull | Sep 27 12:19 |
trmanco | useful* | Sep 27 12:19 |
trmanco | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieve_mail_filtering_language | Sep 27 12:19 |
phIRCe | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KB | Sep 27 12:19 |
trmanco | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieve_(mail_filtering_language) | Sep 27 12:19 |
phIRCe | Title: Sieve (mail filtering language) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 24.5 KB | Sep 27 12:19 |
trmanco | :) | Sep 27 12:19 |
trmanco | it looks like pseudo code | Sep 27 12:20 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, a lot is spent on promotion | Sep 27 12:22 |
schestowitz | I wish I knew what the marketing budget for Vista 7 was | Sep 27 12:22 |
schestowitz | They sure pay a lot of people (contracts, freebies, parties, ads, placemements, ads) | Sep 27 12:23 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: monbility is the future.... http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/microsoftpri0/2009944655_steveballmersays.html | Sep 27 12:24 |
phIRCe | Title: Microsoft Pri0 | Steve Ballmer: Mistakes were made on Windows Mobile at Microsoft | Seattle Times Newspaper .::. Size~: 56.75 KB | Sep 27 12:24 |
schestowitz | http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/09/razorfish-windows-live-and-mobile-unprofitable-in-fy09.ars | Sep 27 12:25 |
phIRCe | Title: Microsoft: Windows Live and Mobile Services unprofitable - Ars Technica .::. Size~: 42.63 KB | Sep 27 12:25 |
schestowitz | http://www.pcworld.com/article/172464/activision_yanks_german_wolfenstein_game_over_swastika.html | Sep 27 12:29 |
phIRCe | Title: Activision Yanks German Wolfenstein Game Over Swastika - PC World .::. Size~: 73.02 KB | Sep 27 12:29 |
oiaohm | There is spending money on promotion and there is stupidly wasting it. | Sep 27 12:31 |
oiaohm | Giving away free copies to selected people can be effective. | Sep 27 12:31 |
oiaohm | Giving away other free items thinking people will buy your products normally does not work. | Sep 27 12:31 |
schestowitz | http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0925/1224255210787.html | Sep 27 12:32 |
phIRCe | Title: Microsoft opens ¬341m data centre in Dublin - The Irish Times - Fri, Sep 25, 2009 .::. Size~: 40.7 KB | Sep 27 12:32 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, it devalues the product | Sep 27 12:32 |
schestowitz | Making Vista 7 a free upgrade for Vista users is why MS won't do it | Sep 27 12:32 |
schestowitz | People would say, why do those Vista users get it for free and I don't? | Sep 27 12:33 |
schestowitz | It would also dilite earnings and reduce prceived value, leading people to thinking it's just SP3 for VIsta | Sep 27 12:33 |
schestowitz | WHich is IS | Sep 27 12:33 |
schestowitz | *it IS | Sep 27 12:33 |
schestowitz | Microsoft chose Dublin for tax breaks probably | Sep 27 12:34 |
oiaohm | In one way giving vista users free versions could be used as a PR spin. | Sep 27 12:35 |
_Hicham_ | they did it with the RC | Sep 27 12:36 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: did you listen to the linus interview? | Sep 27 12:36 |
schestowitz | He spoke correctly about how everything people will remember from linuxcon is the 'bloated' remark | Sep 27 12:36 |
schestowitz | That's the nature of news | Sep 27 12:37 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : which interview ? | Sep 27 12:37 |
schestowitz | Darmatising things | Sep 27 12:37 |
_Hicham_ | of course | Sep 27 12:37 |
schestowitz | ALso, just cause he attended it this may have caused issues to reputation | Sep 27 12:37 |
_Hicham_ | they listen to what they like | Sep 27 12:37 |
schestowitz | Can you find his keynote? | Sep 27 12:37 |
schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=linus+linuxcon&search_type=&aq=f | Sep 27 12:38 |
phIRCe | Title: YouTube - linus linuxcon .::. Size~: 120.3 KB | Sep 27 12:38 |
schestowitz | Still nothing | Sep 27 12:38 |
schestowitz | Did they make no footage of it? | Sep 27 12:38 |
schestowitz | Oldie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVTWCPoUt8w | Sep 27 12:39 |
phIRCe | Title: YouTube - The Origins of Linux - Linus Torvalds .::. Size~: 154.06 KB | Sep 27 12:39 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: Microsoft is trying to cannibalise partners for profit: http://www.crn.com/software/220100996;jsessionid=GH4XNCACSMRYHQE1GHPCKH4ATMY32JVN | Sep 27 12:39 |
phIRCe | Title: Microsoft Partners Hope Courier Isn't Another Tablet - Software - IT Channel News by CRN .::. Size~: 74.56 KB | Sep 27 12:40 |
schestowitz | There's also some talk about ebooks with Windows, but Linux rules this areas easily | Sep 27 12:40 |
schestowitz | http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/2542146/ | Sep 27 12:41 |
trmanco | %20 | Sep 27 12:42 |
trmanco | hmmm | Sep 27 12:42 |
trmanco | that might not match | Sep 27 12:42 |
trmanco | it does | Sep 27 12:43 |
trmanco | http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock News/2542146/ | Sep 27 12:43 |
trmanco | meh | Sep 27 12:43 |
trmanco | that does not work :| | Sep 27 12:44 |
schestowitz | Sep 27 12:44 | |
schestowitz | AfDB | Sep 27 12:44 |
schestowitz | Sold out to the Vole | Sep 27 12:44 |
schestowitz | trmanco: just escape char for spaces. Bad URL conventions | Sep 27 12:44 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Almoço | Sep 27 12:45 | |
schestowitz | http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/opensource/?p=937 | Sep 27 12:45 |
phIRCe | Title: TechRepublic Blogs: For IT professionals, by IT professionals .::. Size~: 80.7 KB | Sep 27 12:45 |
schestowitz | Trolling Linux | Sep 27 12:45 |
schestowitz | http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Desktops-and-Notebooks/Microsoft-Joins-Apple-in-Rumors-about-New-Tablet-PCs-735108/ | Sep 27 12:46 |
phIRCe | Title: Microsoft Joins Apple in Rumors About New Tablet PCs .::. Size~: 106.17 KB | Sep 27 12:46 |
schestowitz | Linux tablets are coming | Sep 27 12:46 |
schestowitz | Apple and Microsoft realise it's a commodity | Sep 27 12:46 |
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schestowitz | When does the CrunchPad come? | Sep 27 12:46 |
schestowitz | wb, magentar | Sep 27 12:46 |
schestowitz | http://www.bbspot.com/News/2009/09/steve-jobs-leaves-apple.html | Sep 27 12:47 |
phIRCe | Title: BBspot - Microsoft Lures Jobs Away from Apple, Steve Jobs .::. Size~: 25.04 KB | Sep 27 12:47 |
schestowitz | http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jBOZEJHEHlFYyo5AsDwqsOMRFm8QD9AUK6FO0 | Sep 27 12:51 |
phIRCe | Title: The Associated Press: Yahoo director to step down at end of year .::. Size~: 7.47 KB | Sep 27 12:51 |
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satipera | http://business.rediff.com/report/2009/sep/22/tech-open-source-can-help-india-save-rs-10000-crore.htm | Sep 27 12:58 |
phIRCe | Title: Open Source can help India save Rs 10,000 crore: Rediff Business News, Latest India business news, India Economy news, World Business, Finance news, Latest business headlines, business videos and business articles. .::. Size~: 23.37 KB | Sep 27 12:58 |
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trmanco | the spaces work | Sep 27 12:58 |
trmanco | %20 is a 100% match | Sep 27 12:58 |
satipera | snap | Sep 27 12:58 |
trmanco | the url is just crazy | Sep 27 12:58 |
trmanco | it loads up an ad first | Sep 27 12:58 |
schestowitz | Lies, man lies, and http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Search-Engines/HitWise-Microsoft-Bing-Soars-18-in-August-362465/ | Sep 27 13:03 |
phIRCe | Title: HitWise: Microsoft Bing Soars 18% in August .::. Size~: 110.22 KB | Sep 27 13:03 |
schestowitz | They not only ingore geography but also measure % relative to self | Sep 27 13:03 |
schestowitz | So if you had 1% and snatched another 4% you could claim soaring by 400% | Sep 27 13:03 |
schestowitz | Typical Microsoft-fluff | Sep 27 13:04 |
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schestowitz | CNN/Microsoft has another advert for vapoiurware that's not new. http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/09/25/total.recall.microsoft.bell/ | Sep 27 13:05 |
phIRCe | Title: Microsoft researcher converts his brain into 'e-memory' - CNN.com .::. Size~: 73.89 KB | Sep 27 13:05 |
schestowitz | This has gone on for years | Sep 27 13:05 |
schestowitz | It's just PR/advert | Sep 27 13:05 |
schestowitz | Stupid stuff like Surface | Sep 27 13:05 |
schestowitz | Is Surface dead yet? | Sep 27 13:05 |
schestowitz | http://www.cnet.com/8301-19709_1-10360045-10.html "We're not real sure about the iRex reader, Microsoft's Courier is a lot of smoke.." | Sep 27 13:08 |
schestowitz | Smoke? | Sep 27 13:08 |
phIRCe | Title: BOL 1069: 80 percent of life is exhaust | Buzz Out Loud Blog - CNET Blogs .::. Size~: 84.94 KB | Sep 27 13:08 |
schestowitz | Xbox? | Sep 27 13:08 |
schestowitz | Will there be exploding ebooks like there are portable media players (ipods) and phones (iphones), even WIndows laptops... | Sep 27 13:09 |
schestowitz | Exploding ebook would be worse than remote deletion that makes them go *poof* | Sep 27 13:10 |
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schestowitz | http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2009/09/comedy-sites-are-the-big-gainers-on-the-web.html | Sep 27 13:15 |
phIRCe | Title: Comedy sites are the big gainers on the Web | Technology | Los Angeles Times .::. Size~: 82.59 KB | Sep 27 13:15 |
schestowitz | " | Sep 27 13:24 |
schestowitz | By two minutes into the video, I could only hold my head in my hands, cringing and saying, "No, no, no, this can't possibly be real!" before giggling helplessly at how high these six minutes and 14 seconds of video ranked on the Unintentional Comedy Scale. | Sep 27 13:24 |
schestowitz | http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fasterforward/2009/09/microsofts_house_party_an_invi.html | Sep 27 13:24 |
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oiaohm | schestowitz: MS attacking partners started with MS entering the anti-virus game. | Sep 27 13:33 |
oiaohm | As MS gets more critical it will get worse. | Sep 27 13:33 |
oiaohm | Two of the lead developers of Linux have done call to arms. | Sep 27 13:33 |
oiaohm | Linus over bloat. | Sep 27 13:33 |
oiaohm | And the other insulting the desktop. | Sep 27 13:33 |
oiaohm | Basically the prove me wrong motivation method. | Sep 27 13:34 |
oiaohm | History of Linux it has worked great. | Sep 27 13:34 |
schestowitz | classic example of a sensationalist headline trying to seem negative and then praising Microsoft. So typical for CNN 'news': http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/09/23/is-microsoft-relevant/?section=magazines_fortune | Sep 27 13:34 |
phIRCe | Title: OpenDNS .::. Size~: 2.07 KB | Sep 27 13:34 |
oiaohm | Basically we are starting to see the signs of Linux moving to a war footing. | Sep 27 13:34 |
schestowitz | It's always amusing when 'CNN' says the monopolies are "under attack" | Sep 27 13:35 |
schestowitz | Poor monopolies | Sep 27 13:35 |
schestowitz | People 'attack' them | Sep 27 13:35 |
schestowitz | Bad, bad regulators | Sep 27 13:35 |
schestowitz | Bad rules and laws | Sep 27 13:35 |
oiaohm | Linux war footing is different. | Sep 27 13:35 |
oiaohm | Focus | Sep 27 13:35 |
oiaohm | When linux took super market there were equal call to arms over linux lack of means to scale. | Sep 27 13:36 |
oiaohm | So leading to Linux being able to scale like no other OS. | Sep 27 13:36 |
trmanco | LOL | Sep 27 13:36 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/180159.asp?from=blog_last3 | Sep 27 13:36 |
trmanco | OpenDNS | Sep 27 13:36 |
phIRCe | Title: Leaked: Photos of Microsoft's Pink phones .::. Size~: 62.54 KB | Sep 27 13:36 |
trmanco | haha | Sep 27 13:37 |
schestowitz | Microsoft vs partners again? | Sep 27 13:37 |
trmanco | http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/09/23/is-microsoft-relevant/?section=magazines_fortune | Sep 27 13:37 |
phIRCe | Title: OpenDNS .::. Size~: 2.07 KB | Sep 27 13:37 |
schestowitz | trmanco: you use opendns | Sep 27 13:37 |
trmanco | wtf | Sep 27 13:37 |
oiaohm | Basically media is miss reading Linux. | Sep 27 13:37 |
trmanco | the page loads here | Sep 27 13:37 |
schestowitz | Or your script does | Sep 27 13:37 |
oiaohm | Nice bit is in 12 months time they will wake up how bad. | Sep 27 13:37 |
schestowitz | Well...... | Sep 27 13:38 |
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schestowitz | oiaohm: they can't sell Windows Mobile anyway | Sep 27 13:38 |
schestowitz | So they might as well try to sell phone h/w :-) | Sep 27 13:38 |
schestowitz | Like Zune! | Sep 27 13:38 |
oiaohm | Hardware production is the only safe market from Open Source. | Sep 27 13:39 |
oiaohm | Orcale is more than aware of this. | Sep 27 13:39 |
oiaohm | They did not aquire SUN without thinking about long term. | Sep 27 13:39 |
oiaohm | Phones is a stupid thing for MS to try to go head to head on. | Sep 27 13:40 |
oiaohm | Nokia and other phone makers are not going to be happy. | Sep 27 13:41 |
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oiaohm | Through out the history of phones makes have not used OS's that own purely to a rival. | Sep 27 13:41 |
oiaohm | Due to the reason of the risk of the double cross. | Sep 27 13:41 |
oiaohm | If MS releases a phone they have doomed there phone market. | Sep 27 13:42 |
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trmanco | Uptime: 2 days, 2 hours and 24 minutes | Sep 27 13:43 |
trmanco | plasma leaks a little | Sep 27 13:43 |
oiaohm | schestowitz: think music players. MS released Zune everyone stoped making CE based media players other than MS. | Sep 27 13:43 |
oiaohm | MS is imploding. | Sep 27 13:44 |
trmanco | but nothing a $kquitapp plasma-desktop then plasma-desktop wouldn't do | Sep 27 13:44 |
oiaohm | In one way I feel sorry for reactos developers. MS could implode before they have a production ready version. | Sep 27 13:45 |
schestowitz | Microsoft enters deeper into AstroTurf Biz: http://www.clickz.com/3635086 | Sep 27 13:50 |
phIRCe | Title: Microsoft Tests Social Media Monitoring Product - ClickZ .::. Size~: 32.1 KB | Sep 27 13:50 |
oiaohm | Hmm | Sep 27 13:51 |
oiaohm | Strange MS did not hide that in a sub company. | Sep 27 13:51 |
hicham_ | oiaohm : do u think that MS can attack reactos ? | Sep 27 13:51 |
oiaohm | Reactos is server based from russia | Sep 27 13:51 |
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oiaohm | Little bit outside MS means to attack. | Sep 27 13:52 |
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oiaohm | Even Reactos project lead is russian. | Sep 27 13:52 |
_Hicham_ | what if he is russian ? | Sep 27 13:52 |
oiaohm | The cases have to be held in a russian court. | Sep 27 13:52 |
oiaohm | No friend to a USA based multi national. | Sep 27 13:52 |
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oiaohm | Yes the power of open source. Open source can choose where it legally based to its advantage. | Sep 27 13:53 |
oiaohm | Yes the Reactos Fountation is also Russian. | Sep 27 13:54 |
oiaohm | It started off as a USA foundation and was moved. | Sep 27 13:54 |
_Hicham_ | international courts cannot hold those kind of cases ? | Sep 27 13:55 |
oiaohm | Not copyright. | Sep 27 13:55 |
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oiaohm | Copyright and infringement cases must be held in the home country. | Sep 27 13:55 |
_Hicham_ | and Russia do not have copyright laws ? | Sep 27 13:57 |
oiaohm | Very lax copyright laws _Hicham_ | Sep 27 13:57 |
oiaohm | Mostly finds in Russian person favour even if they are in the wrong. | Sep 27 13:57 |
oiaohm | Fair price is also part of the Russian system. | Sep 27 13:57 |
schestowitz | http://www.pcworld.com/article/172648/microsoft_kills_dynamics_mobile.html | Sep 27 13:58 |
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phIRCe | Title: Microsoft Kills Dynamics Mobile - PC World .::. Size~: 64.98 KB | Sep 27 13:58 |
oiaohm | Ie you cannot win a case over copyright in russian if you are charging a unfair ammount. Kinda leaves MS in trouble off the start line. | Sep 27 13:58 |
oiaohm | Getting a in port block on open source is very hard in the USA as well. | Sep 27 13:59 |
oiaohm | MS is still cutting back not good sign for them. | Sep 27 14:01 |
_Hicham_ | hopefully schestowitz will beat Microsoft | Sep 27 14:02 |
_Hicham_ | so that we can enjoy all hardware on Linux | Sep 27 14:02 |
oiaohm | Microsoft are killing themselves | Sep 27 14:06 |
oiaohm | I wish MS would speed up doing themselves in. | Sep 27 14:06 |
oiaohm | http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2009/sep/25/sonic-cannon-g20-pittsburgh Hmm its getting harder to protest. | Sep 27 14:11 |
MinceR | yeah, the world is moving further towards fascism. | Sep 27 14:15 |
_Hicham_ | MinceR should be happy if Steve Jobs leaves his job | Sep 27 14:16 |
MinceR | if | Sep 27 14:16 |
oiaohm | It would be worse if they start using metal stop area defence systems. | Sep 27 14:17 |
oiaohm | metal stop/metal storm. | Sep 27 14:17 |
oiaohm | That system can auto target on humans. | Sep 27 14:17 |
schestowitz | http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/22737/ | Sep 27 14:17 |
oiaohm | With leathal or non leathal rounds. | Sep 27 14:18 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: to stop theives? | Sep 27 14:18 |
MinceR | nonlethal rounds? | Sep 27 14:18 |
schestowitz | They are right out there in suits | Sep 27 14:18 |
schestowitz | Many lurking in Wall Street | Sep 27 14:18 |
MinceR | afaik there still are no nonlethal weapons | Sep 27 14:19 |
schestowitz | */theives/thieves/ | Sep 27 14:19 |
oiaohm | There are metal storm has firefighting rounds. | Sep 27 14:19 |
MinceR | there are multiple kinds of thieves | Sep 27 14:19 |
oiaohm | Australias replacement to mine fields MinceR | Sep 27 14:19 |
MinceR | fight fire with fire? :> | Sep 27 14:20 |
oiaohm | Auto matic targeting weapon systems. | Sep 27 14:20 |
oiaohm | Also can be used for puting out fire control foam and other matterials. | Sep 27 14:20 |
oiaohm | On a solid surface like a road putting out something that breaks grip is nasty. | Sep 27 14:21 |
oiaohm | Non killing but nasty for a person trying to get somewhere. | Sep 27 14:21 |
MinceR | ic | Sep 27 14:22 |
MinceR | still, if it reaches their breathing organs, it kills them | Sep 27 14:22 |
vcent | http://www.metalstorm.com/ I think it's an australian invention, and is more to do with very high firing rates. | Sep 27 14:22 |
oiaohm | No the liquid is the same stuff used for liquid breathing MinceR | Sep 27 14:22 |
oiaohm | Will not kill you even if you get a lung full of it. | Sep 27 14:23 |
MinceR | interesting | Sep 27 14:23 |
MinceR | still, nonlethal/less-lethal weapons tend to be able to cause serious harm in some circumstances | Sep 27 14:23 |
MinceR | the circumstances vary with the weapon. | Sep 27 14:23 |
oiaohm | This one is person falling over bady. | Sep 27 14:23 |
oiaohm | so yes can cause harm but mostly not lethal unless the person is really not lucky. | Sep 27 14:24 |
oiaohm | Webing stuff has to be carefully targeted. | Sep 27 14:25 |
oiaohm | The major advantage of metal storm over a mine field since its controlled you can cross it but anyone following you can be doomed. | Sep 27 14:27 |
oiaohm | Now that is also good for protecting something that is moving. | Sep 27 14:27 |
oiaohm | Really high speed water bombs filled with the breathable liquid is a major headache for anyone trying to get somewhere. | Sep 27 14:29 |
oiaohm | Since breaking ground grip allows them to drive person trying to get somewhere backwards. | Sep 27 14:30 |
MinceR | it allows you to break every bone in their body. :> | Sep 27 14:31 |
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sebsebseb | hi schestowitz | Sep 27 14:48 |
schestowitz | http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/24/teargas-protest-g20-summit-pittsburgh | Sep 27 14:48 |
schestowitz | Hey, sebsebseb | Sep 27 14:48 |
sebsebseb | schestowitz: What's Mandriva like, installing stuff, and the repos and that? | Sep 27 14:48 |
schestowitz | http://www.theyesmen.org/blog/yes-men-honcho-sprung-from-clink | Sep 27 14:49 |
schestowitz | " | Sep 27 14:49 |
phIRCe | Title: YES MEN HONCHO SPRUNG FROM CLINK | The Yes Men .::. Size~: 22.99 KB | Sep 27 14:49 |
schestowitz | YES MEN HONCHO SPRUNG FROM CLINK | Sep 27 14:49 |
schestowitz | "Balls Across America" direct-action campaign launched | Sep 27 14:49 |
schestowitz | NYPD abuse of authority big factor in arrest | Sep 27 14:49 |
schestowitz | Suppressive nation | Sep 27 14:49 |
schestowitz | http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/24/nuclear-weapons-un-security-council | Sep 27 14:50 |
MinceR | mandriva's locale handling fails :/ | Sep 27 14:51 |
sebsebseb | MinceR: meaning? | Sep 27 14:52 |
schestowitz | http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/09/fbi-nsac/ | Sep 27 14:52 |
phIRCe | Title: Newly Declassified Files Detail Massive FBI Data-Mining Project | Threat Level | Wired.com .::. Size~: 84.09 KB | Sep 27 14:52 |
MinceR | sebsebseb: http://forum.mandriva.com/viewtopic.php?t=111264 | Sep 27 14:52 |
MinceR | they call it "SOLVED" but it really isn't | Sep 27 14:52 |
schestowitz | "The FBI has brought back "total information awareness" datamining. True to form, they presented "terrorism" as an excuse, but use the system for investigating all sorts of people, including dissidents." http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-jul-oct.html#26%20September%202009%20%28Declassified%20details%20of%20FBI%20datamining%29 | Sep 27 14:52 |
schestowitz | http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/09/obama-will-bypass-congress-to-detain-suspects-indefinitely/ | Sep 27 14:53 |
phIRCe | Title: The Raw Story » Obama will bypass Congress to detain suspects indefinitely .::. Size~: 95.98 KB | Sep 27 14:53 |
MinceR | i wonder if France was "big enough" to support properly :> | Sep 27 14:53 |
schestowitz | Heh. | Sep 27 14:55 |
schestowitz | Many there use Ubuntu | Sep 27 14:55 |
schestowitz | Even government depts | Sep 27 14:55 |
schestowitz | French police too | Sep 27 14:55 |
schestowitz | http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2009/09/22/time-to-change-bernanke-s-medication-sec-20 | Sep 27 14:55 |
phIRCe | Title: TIME TO CHANGE BERNANKE'S MEDICATION? Secret White House letter to G-20 .::. Size~: 26.57 KB | Sep 27 14:55 |
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amarsh04 | schestowitz, I had a big look at who wrote the GPL code in my adsl2+ router... since I'm in Australia and so is the router vendor, finding some Australian authors should help things | Sep 27 14:59 |
amarsh04 | Glenn McGrath, who wrote the tar program for BusyBox; | Sep 27 14:59 |
amarsh04 | Andrew Tridgell, who wrote the proxy arp netmasks in arp.c in net-tools' arp; | Sep 27 14:59 |
amarsh04 | Richard Gooch, who wrote the devfs code in the Linux kernel; | Sep 27 14:59 |
amarsh04 | Matthew Ramsay and Chris Trew, who wrote Moreton Bay DHCP Server udhcpd; | Sep 27 14:59 |
amarsh04 | and Paul 'Rusty' Russell, who wrote much of iptables. | Sep 27 14:59 |
oiaohm | There are a lot more than those amarsh04 | Sep 27 15:00 |
schestowitz | This dude seems like a bit of a troll.... http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2009/09/22/time-to-change-bernanke-s-medication-sec-20 | Sep 27 15:00 |
amarsh04 | Glenn McGrath was burned out by an earlier attempt at GPL compliance: http://www.linux.com/archive/feature/119355 | Sep 27 15:00 |
phIRCe | Title: TIME TO CHANGE BERNANKE'S MEDICATION? Secret White House letter to G-20 .::. Size~: 26.57 KB | Sep 27 15:00 |
phIRCe | Title: Linux.com :: SFLC files GPL lawsuit on behalf of Busybox developers .::. Size~: 41.61 KB | Sep 27 15:00 |
oiaohm | In the kernel it self there are at least 200 amarsh04 | Sep 27 15:00 |
schestowitz | Oops. This guy: http://identi.ca/supertunaman | Sep 27 15:00 |
phIRCe | Title: Tuna (supertunaman) - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 47.1 KB | Sep 27 15:00 |
schestowitz | http://www.busybox.net/shame.html | Sep 27 15:01 |
phIRCe | Title: BusyBox .::. Size~: 8.92 KB | Sep 27 15:01 |
amarsh04 | yes, schestowitz, and I've probably met less than 4 of them | Sep 27 15:01 |
schestowitz | http://www.physorg.com/news173104436.html | Sep 27 15:04 |
phIRCe | Title: Computer scientists successfully boot one million Linux kernels as virtual machines .::. Size~: 83.36 KB | Sep 27 15:04 |
schestowitz | I wonder why they are so much behind the news | Sep 27 15:04 |
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amarsh04 | 3 SFLC email addresses were in the email I just spent several hours preparing about the GPL code in my adsl2+ router | Sep 27 15:07 |
sebsebseb | MinceR: Well Mandriva 2010 RC I hope the issue is fixed in that, but if the issue is only for those two counteries, doesn't effect me | Sep 27 15:09 |
schestowitz | http://www.nuxified.org/blog/googles-reported-attack-site-nonsense-could-lead-firefox-boycott | Sep 27 15:12 |
phIRCe | Title: Google's "reported attack site" nonsense could lead to a Firefox boycott | Nuxified.org .::. Size~: 52.56 KB | Sep 27 15:12 |
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MinceR | sebsebseb: which is the other one, besides Hungary? | Sep 27 15:23 |
sebsebseb | MinceR: I only know what your link said | Sep 27 15:24 |
MinceR | well, then it isn't only two | Sep 27 15:24 |
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sebsebseb | MinceR: only read it quickly and that | Sep 27 15:26 |
schestowitz | trmanco: http://ostatic.com/blog/gmails-outage-illustrates-cloud-problems-and-open-source-opportunities time for own mail? | Sep 27 15:26 |
phIRCe | Title: Gmail's Outage Illustrates Cloud Problems, and Open Source Opportunities .::. Size~: 38.17 KB | Sep 27 15:26 |
schestowitz | Is this press so stupid that every time it hears of Kazakhstan it has to put a photo of this dick? http://www.cio-weblog.com/50226711/linux_learnings_of_ibm_for_make_benefit_glorious_nation_of_kazakhstan.php | Sep 27 15:30 |
phIRCe | Title: The CIO Weblog: Linux learnings of IBM for make benefit glorious nation of Kazakhstan .::. Size~: 115.63 KB | Sep 27 15:31 |
schestowitz | This is the second time (2 out of 2) that I see them doing it | Sep 27 15:31 |
schestowitz | DIdn't Kazakhstan sue Sascha Baron for shaming the country? | Sep 27 15:31 |
MinceR | borat ftw | Sep 27 15:31 |
schestowitz | It's a developed country, he made it look like a farmer's land | Sep 27 15:31 |
MinceR | also, read the first paragraph | Sep 27 15:32 |
schestowitz | I watched the film | Sep 27 15:32 |
schestowitz | It stained the image of the population there | Sep 27 15:32 |
schestowitz | MinceR: we had one of them here | Sep 27 15:33 |
schestowitz | They move to ODF, hopefully | Sep 27 15:33 |
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schestowitz | http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112926570 | Sep 27 15:38 |
phIRCe | Title: Social Media Crashes The Courtroom : NPR .::. Size~: 68.51 KB | Sep 27 15:39 |
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schestowitz | http://www.macfound.org/site/c.lkLXJ8MQKrH/b.959463/k.9D7D/Fellows_Program.htm | Sep 27 15:42 |
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DaemonFC | the latest Opera 10.1 weekly build is faster than Firefox 3.5 | Sep 27 15:43 |
schestowitz | Groklaw is the same wavelength as many like me... Oracle is trying to ruin mysql | Sep 27 15:45 |
schestowitz | ELLISon keeps lying | Sep 27 15:45 |
DaemonFC | they wouldn't have to try hard | Sep 27 15:45 |
DaemonFC | Oracle already has database software that massively outperforms MySQL | Sep 27 15:45 |
DaemonFC | if Adobe really wants to hurt Microsoft, why can't they ever seem to make a fully functional Flash plugin on Linux? | Sep 27 15:50 |
schestowitz | Troll Tracker Defamation Trial Ends in Truce | Sep 27 15:50 |
DaemonFC | it's obvious that Moonlight won't ever work | Sep 27 15:50 |
schestowitz | http://www.thedailyjournal.com/article/20090901/OPINION02/909010328 | Sep 27 15:51 |
phIRCe | Title: When do words of a rapper or blogger become threats? | thedailyjournal.com | The Daily Journal .::. Size~: 66.01 KB | Sep 27 15:51 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: it would work for Micr | Sep 27 15:51 |
schestowitz | s | Sep 27 15:51 |
schestowitz | The idea is to make it work poorly | Sep 27 15:51 |
MinceR | adobe wants to hurt m$? | Sep 27 15:51 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, They should | Sep 27 15:51 |
MinceR | well, everybody should | Sep 27 15:51 |
DaemonFC | Silverlight is aimed at killing off Flash | Sep 27 15:51 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, The reason Moonlight won't ever get any users is because they would actually have to make it work first | Sep 27 15:54 |
DaemonFC | I don't know why anyone is afraid of it | Sep 27 15:54 |
MinceR | well, that didn't keep flash from gaining users, did it? | Sep 27 15:55 |
DaemonFC | even Silverlight 1.0 sites won't work in Moonlight 1.0 | Sep 27 15:55 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, The biggest use of Flash is video playback. If you just get that working, 80% of users are happy | Sep 27 15:55 |
schestowitz | http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/24/hondas-u3-x-personal-mobility-device-is-the-segway-of-unicycles/ | Sep 27 15:56 |
phIRCe | Title: Honda's U3-X Personal Mobility Device is the Segway of unicycles .::. Size~: 135.24 KB | Sep 27 15:56 |
DaemonFC | Silverlight has a few things that people are using it for like "Photo Synth", but there's not reason you couldn't do that with Flash, none at all | Sep 27 15:56 |
DaemonFC | *not=no | Sep 27 15:56 |
DaemonFC | the entire point of Flash is that it's quick and easy to build with and that it's more or less cross platform and every browser supports it | Sep 27 15:58 |
DaemonFC | you might, in theory, make a site that's just as good using standard HTML and style sheets and browser support for <video> and such, but not every browser supports that yet | Sep 27 15:59 |
DaemonFC | MSIE will be the last holdout | Sep 27 15:59 |
DaemonFC | (it always is) | Sep 27 15:59 |
MinceR | 165715 < DaemonFC> MinceR, The biggest use of Flash is video playback. If you just get that working, 80% of users are happy | Sep 27 16:01 |
MinceR | if. | Sep 27 16:01 |
schestowitz | http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2009/092509-phoenix-doubling-staff-at-india.html?fsrc=rss-linux-news | Sep 27 16:01 |
phIRCe | Title: Phoenix doubling staff at India development center - LinuxWorld .::. Size~: 34.65 KB | Sep 27 16:01 |
DaemonFC | proprietary software works well for precisely that reason MinceR | Sep 27 16:02 |
MinceR | as for msie being the last holdout, they just need to install another plugin: chrome frame. ;) | Sep 27 16:02 |
schestowitz | The whole video part of Moonlie is just Microsoft proprietary codecs with a draconian licence | Sep 27 16:02 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: except for the whole not working part? | Sep 27 16:02 |
DaemonFC | most people do simply have a "passive consumer" mindset | Sep 27 16:02 |
DaemonFC | and not all proprietary software is bad or evil | Sep 27 16:02 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: it would be a nice explanation if, you know, proprietary software worked well. | Sep 27 16:02 |
DaemonFC | some does | Sep 27 16:02 |
MinceR | some, and not nearly all | Sep 27 16:03 |
MinceR | most doesn't | Sep 27 16:03 |
schestowitz | And you are left helpless of they don't | Sep 27 16:03 |
schestowitz | case of point: Fletch | Sep 27 16:03 |
DaemonFC | well, there are cases where the software is huge and complicated and no open source project even comes close | Sep 27 16:03 |
DaemonFC | Photoshop v. Gimp | Sep 27 16:03 |
_Hicham_ | ah, TrollTech is here | Sep 27 16:03 |
schestowitz | Your pointer is wrong | Sep 27 16:03 |
schestowitz | Photoshop >. Gimp | Sep 27 16:04 |
schestowitz | FOr bloat | Sep 27 16:04 |
schestowitz | Photoshop <. Gimp | Sep 27 16:04 |
MinceR | :D | Sep 27 16:04 |
schestowitz | For quick use | Sep 27 16:04 |
DaemonFC | I really hate Gimp, I really do | Sep 27 16:04 |
DaemonFC | maybe 2.8 will be better, I hope so | Sep 27 16:04 |
schestowitz | Learn it | Sep 27 16:04 |
_Hicham_ | u hate everything | Sep 27 16:04 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: we didn't expect anything else from you :> | Sep 27 16:04 |
schestowitz | I luuuurve GIMO | Sep 27 16:04 |
_Hicham_ | example of sthg u like ? | Sep 27 16:04 |
schestowitz | I'm good at it too | Sep 27 16:04 |
MinceR | soon gimp will gain the option to use a photoshop-like retarded gui | Sep 27 16:04 |
DaemonFC | well, it's not like people go out and spend $1200 just because they don't want to have that $1200 | Sep 27 16:05 |
MinceR | so the whiners can get what they wanted | Sep 27 16:05 |
*schestowitz shudders | Sep 27 16:05 | |
schestowitz | g2g bbl | Sep 27 16:05 |
MinceR | well, people like to think that more expensive must be better | Sep 27 16:05 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, acts like people go to the store and shout "I hate money, get it away from me!!! It burns the flesh!!!!" | Sep 27 16:05 |
MinceR | especially if they've already wasted all that money | Sep 27 16:05 |
schestowitz | MinceR: Iraq war better than Vietnam then? | Sep 27 16:05 |
MinceR | cognitive dissonance and everything | Sep 27 16:05 |
MinceR | schestowitz: dunno. is the iraq war considered a success? | Sep 27 16:05 |
schestowitz | Was Photoshop? | Sep 27 16:06 |
MinceR | it is by its fanboys | Sep 27 16:06 |
DaemonFC | I don't use Photoshop either mind you | Sep 27 16:06 |
_Hicham_ | there is a gimp fork, called gimpshop, which looks like Photoshop | Sep 27 16:06 |
schestowitz | I'm sure some photoshopped photos from Iraq can show American flags and happy Iraqi people | Sep 27 16:06 |
DaemonFC | Corel Graphics Suite X4 is pretty good | Sep 27 16:07 |
DaemonFC | compatible with photoshop plugins | Sep 27 16:07 |
schestowitz | bbl | Sep 27 16:07 |
MinceR | corel isn't dead yet? | Sep 27 16:07 |
ThistleWeb | I never got gimpshop to work | Sep 27 16:07 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, far from it | Sep 27 16:07 |
DaemonFC | http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite/us/en/Product/1191272117978#tabview=tab0 | Sep 27 16:07 |
phIRCe | Title: CorelDRAW Graphics Suite X4 - Graphics .::. Size~: 136.01 KB | Sep 27 16:07 |
DaemonFC | what I use | Sep 27 16:07 |
MinceR | http://gimp.org/ http://inkscape.org/ | Sep 27 16:08 |
MinceR | what i use :> | Sep 27 16:08 |
phIRCe | Title: GIMP - The GNU Image Manipulation Program .::. Size~: 8.77 KB | Sep 27 16:08 |
phIRCe | Title: Inkscape. Draw Freely. .::. Size~: 12.69 KB | Sep 27 16:08 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, They do have a Win64 version | Sep 27 16:08 |
DaemonFC | Gimp kinda sorta does | Sep 27 16:08 |
ThistleWeb | I am curious why the Gimp having a single window interface as an option is a bad thing? | Sep 27 16:08 |
DaemonFC | ThistleWeb, Gimp 2.8 will | Sep 27 16:09 |
_Hicham_ | but it is not free | Sep 27 16:09 |
ThistleWeb | I know | Sep 27 16:09 |
MinceR | ThistleWeb: the option isn't a bad thing (other than wasting developer time) | Sep 27 16:09 |
ThistleWeb | I dont get why it's a bad thing | Sep 27 16:09 |
MinceR | making it the default is worse | Sep 27 16:09 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_, I have a few Corel products | Sep 27 16:09 |
ThistleWeb | an option you can switch on or off | Sep 27 16:09 |
MinceR | but as long as the old-style interface remains, i'll keep using it | Sep 27 16:09 |
ThistleWeb | developed by volunteers who wanted to do it | Sep 27 16:09 |
DaemonFC | they had a product they were distributing for a while called Multimedia Fusion | Sep 27 16:10 |
ThistleWeb | that's what foss is all about, scratching your own itch | Sep 27 16:10 |
DaemonFC | it was massive, you could do all kinds of stuff | Sep 27 16:10 |
ThistleWeb | if you're paying the devs, then you can insist they work on something you consider useful | Sep 27 16:10 |
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DaemonFC | Wordperfect Office X4 sucks though | Sep 27 16:11 |
DaemonFC | it's gotten so bad that OpenOffice beats it | Sep 27 16:11 |
ThistleWeb | whether we like it or not, the multi-window interface in gimp has put a lot of potential converts off | Sep 27 16:11 |
DaemonFC | http://www.mmiworks.net/eng/publications/2009/09/gimp-single-mode.html | Sep 27 16:13 |
phIRCe | Title: m+mi works : blog : on interaction architecture: GIMP redux, singlewindow mode .::. Size~: 96.42 KB | Sep 27 16:13 |
ThistleWeb | some apps have defined the general UI for that type of app, photoshop is one of them | Sep 27 16:13 |
ThistleWeb | notice inkscape is a single window | Sep 27 16:13 |
ThistleWeb | so is scribus | Sep 27 16:13 |
ThistleWeb | all the image apps I can think of in windows are too | Sep 27 16:14 |
ThistleWeb | open and closed source | Sep 27 16:14 |
ThistleWeb | gimp is only fitting in | Sep 27 16:14 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC can't write a single line of code, and is whining about applications | Sep 27 16:14 |
ThistleWeb | but leaving an option for those who prefer multi windows to use that | Sep 27 16:14 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_, When something is missing features that I use or the interface sucks, I won't use it | Sep 27 16:15 |
DaemonFC | and I don't care who made it | Sep 27 16:15 |
MinceR | notice that sodipodi doesn't have a single window | Sep 27 16:15 |
MinceR | (and neither should inkscape) | Sep 27 16:16 |
amarsh04 | http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/09/27/0252235 | Sep 27 16:16 |
phIRCe | Title: Slashdot | AU Government To Build "Unhackable" Netbooks .::. Size~: 134 KB | Sep 27 16:16 |
MinceR | not even dia does, though it doesn't really take advantage of it | Sep 27 16:16 |
ThistleWeb | like it or not, when you design an app which already has competition, with a totally different UI, it will struggle to gain a foothold | Sep 27 16:17 |
DaemonFC | this is just weird | Sep 27 16:17 |
DaemonFC | Social Security website validates as HTML 4.01 Transitional | Sep 27 16:17 |
DaemonFC | Opera can't render it properly | Sep 27 16:17 |
MinceR | or that totally different UI will be its selling point | Sep 27 16:18 |
ThistleWeb | the UI for a word processor is pretty much set in stone, the only new UI in many years has been the ribbon | Sep 27 16:18 |
ThistleWeb | and a lot of peeps hate the ribbon | Sep 27 16:18 |
MinceR | word processors are overrated | Sep 27 16:18 |
MinceR | btw, WYSIWYG is a new UI, and yet here you are arguing for it. :> | Sep 27 16:18 |
ThistleWeb | people get used to one UI for that type of app. They can work with varations on that UI and get used to it but a new UI will be alien | Sep 27 16:19 |
DaemonFC | well, the theory of software, like anything else, is that vicious competition will keep prices down and quality up. The basic assumption holds true when there's a small to medium size company with lots of competition. | Sep 27 16:19 |
ThistleWeb | new? since when? | Sep 27 16:19 |
DaemonFC | it falls apart when you talk about Microsoft because even though they still have to listen to customers for some things, there's a lot of self serving crap and high prices because they don't have any viable competition | Sep 27 16:20 |
ThistleWeb | some web apps dont have a wisiwig, but most apps do | Sep 27 16:20 |
DaemonFC | FOSS is out of that system entirely, and even though proponents like to say it's user driven, it isn't | Sep 27 16:20 |
DaemonFC | it's largely developer driven and has lots of gaps in many cases cause the maintainers don't care | Sep 27 16:20 |
MinceR | m$ keeps competition from entering the deal | Sep 27 16:20 |
ThistleWeb | well, not built in anyway, though plugins often suffice | Sep 27 16:20 |
MinceR | s/deal/market/ | Sep 27 16:20 |
DaemonFC | well, I thought it important to say that since we're talking about things like GIMP | Sep 27 16:21 |
DaemonFC | GIMP has had problems and missing features that many users have talked about for years | Sep 27 16:21 |
ThistleWeb | imagine trying to sell a PC with a 3:4 screen - taller than wide | Sep 27 16:21 |
MinceR | none of those features were the broken photoshop gui, though | Sep 27 16:22 |
ThistleWeb | people wouldn't accept it | Sep 27 16:22 |
DaemonFC | Photoshop doesn't have those gaps and bugs and problems because they have to make good software to justify selling it at the prices they want | Sep 27 16:22 |
ThistleWeb | maybe not the bext example | Sep 27 16:22 |
MinceR | ThistleWeb: one of my coworkers used his 16:10 monitor in portrait orientation (10:16) | Sep 27 16:22 |
DaemonFC | if it was equal to GIMP, everyone would use GIMP | Sep 27 16:22 |
MinceR | ThistleWeb: in fact, many LCDs can be rotated now | Sep 27 16:22 |
ThistleWeb | yep, there's always the exception | Sep 27 16:22 |
ThistleWeb | k, try a different example.....a circular screen | Sep 27 16:23 |
ThistleWeb | not rectangle | Sep 27 16:23 |
MinceR | that won't fit the buffer in memory | Sep 27 16:23 |
MinceR | though old CRTs might have been circular | Sep 27 16:23 |
MinceR | ones driven in vector mode, not raster | Sep 27 16:23 |
ThistleWeb | I mean a circle instead of a rectangle | Sep 27 16:23 |
DaemonFC | in some ways Apple is like Microsoft, I wouldn't call Apple a monopoly though | Sep 27 16:23 |
DaemonFC | with 5% of the desktop market and plenty of competing MP3 players | Sep 27 16:23 |
MinceR | they're alike in many ways | Sep 27 16:23 |
ThistleWeb | where you have no corners | Sep 27 16:24 |
MinceR | same despotic control freakism | Sep 27 16:24 |
MinceR | support for DRM | Sep 27 16:24 |
DaemonFC | the problem with Apple is bundling | Sep 27 16:24 |
MinceR | disregard of quality and the customer | Sep 27 16:24 |
DaemonFC | iTunes will refuse to work with my competing MP3 player | Sep 27 16:24 |
MinceR | there are many problems with crApple | Sep 27 16:24 |
DaemonFC | OS X only comes with an expensive Mac | Sep 27 16:24 |
DaemonFC | so in many ways, Windows is a much more competitive platform than Mac because you can use pretty much anyone's hardware or peripherals or software | Sep 27 16:25 |
MinceR | pretty much anyone m$ allows into the market, that is | Sep 27 16:25 |
DaemonFC | meh, hasn't stopped any FOSS from running even though people are still ready to scream bloody murder the second they try it | Sep 27 16:26 |
DaemonFC | plenty of competing software runs just fine on Windows where it would not on the Mac | Sep 27 16:26 |
DaemonFC | or where Mac users would never bother | Sep 27 16:27 |
DaemonFC | example, there's an OpenOffice for Mac but iWork comes with every Mac, built into the price | Sep 27 16:27 |
DaemonFC | Apple has effectively shut out all the FOSS that does work with OS X by bundling and charging you for their version of that software as part of OS X | Sep 27 16:28 |
DaemonFC | Where's the EU or the DOJ to keep Apple honest? Perhaps? | Sep 27 16:28 |
DaemonFC | Why doesn't the EU force iTunes to work with standard MP3 players or for them to cut out the bundling of things like the iLife suite? If competition is important, where are the regulators? | Sep 27 16:29 |
DaemonFC | Where are the fines? | Sep 27 16:29 |
MinceR | the eu is sleeping at the wheel | Sep 27 16:30 |
MinceR | notice that iGrenades still aren't banned here | Sep 27 16:30 |
MinceR | even after 10 of them exploding in 2 weeks or so | Sep 27 16:30 |
DaemonFC | iGrenades? | Sep 27 16:30 |
MinceR | guess what would have happened if a noname chinese brand phone did the same | Sep 27 16:30 |
MinceR | hypePhones | Sep 27 16:31 |
MinceR | Time Bomb(tm)s | Sep 27 16:31 |
DaemonFC | I'm saying that in many ways Apple disgusts me above and beyond anything Microsoft has done or could get away with | Sep 27 16:31 |
trmanco | schestowitz: og gmail's outage | Sep 27 16:31 |
MinceR | it disgusts me, too | Sep 27 16:31 |
trmanco | oh* | Sep 27 16:31 |
MinceR | but i can't really decide whether crApple or m$ is worse | Sep 27 16:31 |
MinceR | i'd prefer to have both disappear from the world | Sep 27 16:32 |
DaemonFC | even if Windows Mobile spread (unlikely), there's still plenty of competing hardware it runs on and other mobile operating systems | Sep 27 16:32 |
trmanco | every news source misses the point that google released some contact software for the iphone these last days | Sep 27 16:32 |
_Hicham_ | Apple is MinceR's Love | Sep 27 16:32 |
DaemonFC | and Microsoft dowsn't care which carrier you choose | Sep 27 16:32 |
MinceR | trolling is _Hicham_'s calling | Sep 27 16:32 |
trmanco | they just don't know how to put 2 and 2 together | Sep 27 16:32 |
trmanco | I bet the outages are being caused by that | Sep 27 16:32 |
MinceR | windows mobile fails at basic phone and pda functionality | Sep 27 16:32 |
trmanco | an more in the US | Sep 27 16:32 |
MinceR | ending a call takes at least 3 seconds from pressing the button | Sep 27 16:33 |
MinceR | alarms are unreliable | Sep 27 16:33 |
DaemonFC | Windows Mobile brings prices up a bit, but I still have yet to see any AT&T lock in or any $500 phones (after the subsidization) | Sep 27 16:33 |
trmanco | some contact page bug that's in the gmail app | Sep 27 16:33 |
DaemonFC | almost anyone I know that's been duped into buying an iPhone will tell you about the slow connections and the constant dropped calls | Sep 27 16:34 |
DaemonFC | I'd never own one | Sep 27 16:34 |
MinceR | neither would i | Sep 27 16:34 |
MinceR | i think i'll get an n97 or an n900 | Sep 27 16:34 |
DaemonFC | I have a Blackberry Storm right now, has pretty much every feature of the iPhone including a touch screen, but it has a replaceable battery and external storage and such | Sep 27 16:36 |
DaemonFC | much better deal, and the phone was $200 | Sep 27 16:36 |
DaemonFC | Apple/Mac has always been mostly a small group of vocal fanboys that romanticize about spending 2-3x what everything is worth | Sep 27 16:37 |
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DaemonFC | that's also easy to exploit MinceR | Sep 27 16:38 |
MinceR | the blackberry storm doesn't have a keyboard | Sep 27 16:39 |
MinceR | and the other blackberries don't have a touchscreen | Sep 27 16:39 |
DaemonFC | I used to buy up refurbished iPods and put in my ebay listing "I have never used this, still in packaging" | Sep 27 16:39 |
DaemonFC | made at least $50 on each one | Sep 27 16:39 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, It's easier to type with the touchscreen than it looks | Sep 27 16:39 |
DaemonFC | the iPhone isn't really easy to type on | Sep 27 16:40 |
MinceR | yeah, all the crApple fanboys say that too | Sep 27 16:40 |
DaemonFC | and just like an iPod, it's ludicrously easy to scratch | Sep 27 16:40 |
MinceR | after all, who cares about ergonomics? who needs tactile feedback anyway? | Sep 27 16:40 |
DaemonFC | it makes a click sound when I hit a virtual key | Sep 27 16:40 |
_Hicham_ | MinceR is a retarded person | Sep 27 16:41 |
DaemonFC | it makes the unit smaller and require less power, and it's still very usable | Sep 27 16:41 |
MinceR | _Hicham_: die in a fire | Sep 27 16:41 |
DaemonFC | tradeoff is minimal | Sep 27 16:41 |
MinceR | click sounds are useless | Sep 27 16:41 |
DaemonFC | that's why I think the netbooks are retarded | Sep 27 16:41 |
MinceR | you don't feel clicks with your fingers | Sep 27 16:41 |
DaemonFC | a Blackberry can easily replace them | Sep 27 16:42 |
MinceR | netbooks have keyboards you can actually type on with all fingers | Sep 27 16:42 |
MinceR | (depending on finger size, of course -- i need a 10" one) | Sep 27 16:42 |
DaemonFC | yeah, they're also huge | Sep 27 16:42 |
DaemonFC | show me a netbook that fits in my pocket and that I can make phone calls with | Sep 27 16:42 |
_Hicham_ | MinceR can't feel clicks because he lacks any kind of sense at all | Sep 27 16:42 |
MinceR | they also have a screen of usable size | Sep 27 16:42 |
MinceR | show me a phone you can read scanned (non-ocr) book pdfs in | Sep 27 16:43 |
MinceR | _Hicham_: gtfo | Sep 27 16:43 |
DaemonFC | my Blackberry can also last a couple days at least on one charge, netbooks suck the battery dry within 5-6 hours | Sep 27 16:43 |
DaemonFC | and the Blackberry doubles as an MP3 player | Sep 27 16:43 |
MinceR | nope, not all netbooks do | Sep 27 16:43 |
_Hicham_ | show me a person who is older in time than MinceR | Sep 27 16:43 |
MinceR | _Hicham_: stfu | Sep 27 16:44 |
DaemonFC | the only thing I don't like about the Blackberry is that I can't get it to play Vorbis | Sep 27 16:44 |
MinceR | strange, my qtek 9100 could play vorbis | Sep 27 16:44 |
MinceR | perhaps blackberries aren't all they're cracked up to be? :> | Sep 27 16:45 |
DaemonFC | I probably should search for an application that can do that | Sep 27 16:45 |
MinceR | well said, Captain Obvious | Sep 27 16:45 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, Vorbis has been becoming more mainstream | Sep 27 16:46 |
DaemonFC | slow and steady though | Sep 27 16:46 |
DaemonFC | it because it has the capability to produce really small files that still sound good | Sep 27 16:46 |
DaemonFC | so it's been very popular with video games | Sep 27 16:47 |
DaemonFC | a lot of XBOX 360 titles use Ogg Vorbis even though Microsoft waves the WMA license fee, lol | Sep 27 16:47 |
DaemonFC | if something is good enough, it shouldn't need advertising, it should just do something better than anyone else can or has bothered to | Sep 27 16:48 |
DaemonFC | people will notice | Sep 27 16:48 |
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DaemonFC | the reason Vorbis is an easier sell than Linux is because Vorbis is a very purpose driven project, it only has to do one thing to make people happy, and it doesn't require you to do anything like wipe your hard disk to find out if it's useful to you | Sep 27 16:49 |
MinceR | so i take it you haven't heard of Wubi nor virtualization :> | Sep 27 16:50 |
DaemonFC | a desktop Linux system has to be a general purpose project that has to satisfy many different kinds of users and be good for many kinds of applications or projects | Sep 27 16:50 |
MinceR | hm, or partition resizing :> | Sep 27 16:50 |
DaemonFC | you start talking about the partitioning, you scare off a lot of people | Sep 27 16:51 |
DaemonFC | that's sort of the reason for Wubi | Sep 27 16:51 |
DaemonFC | but Wubi has problems of its own | Sep 27 16:51 |
DaemonFC | First, if anything happens to Windows, your Linux installation is probably also toast | Sep 27 16:51 |
DaemonFC | Second, it runs slower | Sep 27 16:51 |
DaemonFC | Third, things like power management don't work right, so sleep and hibernate are not there | Sep 27 16:52 |
DaemonFC | something that amused me was cooperative Linux | Sep 27 16:52 |
DaemonFC | Windows and Linux running side by side | Sep 27 16:53 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, Most of what turned me off to MPEG 4 AAC was that there are no useful open source encoders | Sep 27 16:55 |
_Hicham_ | the unified kernel project | Sep 27 16:55 |
DaemonFC | nothing that provides the same quality as Nero | Sep 27 16:55 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: isn't that heavily patent-encumbered | Sep 27 16:55 |
MinceR | ? | Sep 27 16:55 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, Meh, kinda | Sep 27 16:55 |
DaemonFC | it's kind of hard to do anything about it though | Sep 27 16:56 |
_Hicham_ | did u buy Nero ? | Sep 27 16:56 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_, The Nero AAC encoder is freeware | Sep 27 16:56 |
DaemonFC | for Windows/Linux/Mac | Sep 27 16:56 |
DaemonFC | I just am not comfortable depending on closed source software for something like this | Sep 27 16:56 |
DaemonFC | FAAC is very bad | Sep 27 16:57 |
DaemonFC | that's the FOSS AAC encoder | Sep 27 16:57 |
MinceR | if it's patent-encumbered and they want to charge an arm and a leg for the patent license, you're pretty much stuck with proprietary software. | Sep 27 16:57 |
DaemonFC | most of the FAAC developers quit and went to work for Nero a couple years ago | Sep 27 16:57 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, I don't pay patent licenses, never have | Sep 27 16:57 |
DaemonFC | not even when I used MP3 | Sep 27 16:58 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: doesn't mean that the author of the gratis proprietary tool you're using did neither. | Sep 27 16:58 |
DaemonFC | I just used LAME to encode | Sep 27 16:58 |
DaemonFC | usually mpg123 to play it | Sep 27 16:58 |
DaemonFC | I compiled an mpg123 plugin for Winamp | Sep 27 16:59 |
DaemonFC | still use it to play MP3 | Sep 27 16:59 |
DaemonFC | very good decoder, uses hardly any CPU resources at all | Sep 27 16:59 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, As long as you distribute your encoder as source code only, I've never heard of anyone being sued | Sep 27 17:00 |
MinceR | doesn't mean they can't be sued | Sep 27 17:01 |
DaemonFC | LAME's disclaimer is that they're just an educational tool to demonstrate how you could make an MP3 encoder | Sep 27 17:01 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, That will never happen | Sep 27 17:01 |
MinceR | don't tell me, tell the developers :> | Sep 27 17:01 |
DaemonFC | companies like Nullsoft use LAME in their program and pay license fees to FhG | Sep 27 17:01 |
DaemonFC | FhG is making too much money off LAME to ever want to sue it | Sep 27 17:01 |
MinceR | i don't really care about AAC | Sep 27 17:01 |
DaemonFC | you don't kill the goose that laid the golden egg, MinceR | Sep 27 17:02 |
DaemonFC | that's what I think it happening with LAME | Sep 27 17:02 |
DaemonFC | if someone wanted to come along and make something I own the patents on 10 times better and they made me a pile of money in doing it, I would never sue them | Sep 27 17:03 |
DaemonFC | would you? | Sep 27 17:03 |
MinceR | i don't care, i'll just use vorbis and FLAC :> | Sep 27 17:03 |
DaemonFC | my point is that MP3 has for all intents and purposes, been FOSS for the last 10 years | Sep 27 17:04 |
DaemonFC | the only thing that is holding MP3 back is that it is old and there are design limitations that can't be fixed without breaking decoder compatibility | Sep 27 17:05 |
DaemonFC | that's what all these other formats were designed to fix | Sep 27 17:05 |
DaemonFC | the thing about patents is that they expire, and a lot of the really bad ones on MP3 already have | Sep 27 17:06 |
DaemonFC | the funny thing about that is that since MP3 was essentially the first of its kind, they had to register most of the patents that apply to digital audio overall to cover it | Sep 27 17:07 |
_Hicham_ | MinceR uses Quicktime format all the time | Sep 27 17:08 |
DaemonFC | meaning when they expire, it will also do a lot to damage the credibility of any patent claims on Vorbis | Sep 27 17:08 |
MinceR | _Hicham_: die in a fire | Sep 27 17:08 |
_Hicham_ | MinceR : why do u want me to die ? | Sep 27 17:08 |
MinceR | _Hicham_: die in a fire | Sep 27 17:08 |
_Hicham_ | MinceR wants me to die so that he can enjoy Apple stuff in secret | Sep 27 17:09 |
DaemonFC | http://www.newsday.com/entertainment/swiss-arrest-polanski-on-us-request-in-sex-case-1.1479993 | Sep 27 17:10 |
phIRCe | Title: Swiss arrest Polanski on US request in sex case .::. Size~: 106.65 KB | Sep 27 17:10 |
MinceR | _Hicham_: die in a fire | Sep 27 17:11 |
DaemonFC | http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/09/26/mekong.species/ | Sep 27 17:12 |
phIRCe | Title: Bird-eating frog among 163 new species found in Mekong region - CNN.com .::. Size~: 72.39 KB | Sep 27 17:12 |
DaemonFC | bird eating frog, rofl | Sep 27 17:13 |
*DaemonFC wonders when they'll find a _Hicham_ eating frog | Sep 27 17:15 | |
DaemonFC | now there's something I'd buy | Sep 27 17:15 |
MinceR | sign me up, too | Sep 27 17:16 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @adyelysium VGR Post: : The Hazards of Dating a Gamer: Love At First Frag http://bit.ly/5GaFz | Sep 27 17:16 | |
phIRCe | Title: The Hazards of Dating a Gamer: Love At First Frag | Video Game Reviews .::. Size~: 51.93 KB | Sep 27 17:16 |
*_Hicham_ thinks that DaemonFC was eating from trashes before MS began sponsoring his activities | Sep 27 17:17 | |
DaemonFC | not sponsored by Microsoft | Sep 27 17:17 |
DaemonFC | I do a combination of odd jobs, some days I'm busy and some days I sit here in my underwear and talk to _Hicham_ | Sep 27 17:17 |
DaemonFC | would you like some iced tea? | Sep 27 17:18 |
MinceR | TMI | Sep 27 17:18 |
DaemonFC | :) | Sep 27 17:18 |
_Hicham_ | what a polite man ! | Sep 27 17:18 |
DaemonFC | MinceR, I make less money than I did in retail management, but I'm more or less free to do anything I like most of the time | Sep 27 17:18 |
DaemonFC | that's a good trade in my book | Sep 27 17:18 |
DaemonFC | no more 60 hour workweeks | Sep 27 17:19 |
MinceR | i was referring to the underwear thing | Sep 27 17:19 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_, I'm just full of class | Sep 27 17:19 |
*DaemonFC belches loudly | Sep 27 17:19 | |
DaemonFC | money or time is always the trade off | Sep 27 17:20 |
DaemonFC | salary, in retail, is code for unpaid overtime | Sep 27 17:20 |
amarsh04 | and also technically means paid monthly | Sep 27 17:21 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC is living on welfare+MSfare | Sep 27 17:22 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @ladyelysium VGR Post: : The Hazards of Dating a Gamer: Love At First Frag http://bit.ly/5GaFz Slashdot: http://is.gd/3J1c0 | Sep 27 17:25 | |
phIRCe | Title: The Hazards of Dating a Gamer: Love At First Frag | Video Game Reviews .::. Size~: 51.93 KB | Sep 27 17:25 |
phIRCe | Title: Slashdot Submission | The Hazards of Dating a Gamer: Love At First Frag .::. Size~: 46.44 KB | Sep 27 17:25 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @nipra: RT @ghoseb Javascript summarized in one picture http://bit.ly/1JgJsa Funny but true. | Sep 27 17:30 | |
MinceR | damn, some of the official download links for kde3.5 are dead | Sep 27 17:30 |
twitter1 | oh God, http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/09/27/0252235/AU-Government-To-Build-Unhackable-Netbooks?art_pos=4 | Sep 27 17:31 |
phIRCe | Title: Slashdot News Story | AU Government To Build "Unhackable" Netbooks .::. Size~: 147.92 KB | Sep 27 17:31 |
amarsh04 | I posted that earlier twitter1 | Sep 27 17:32 |
twitter1 | Windows 7 forced onto 250,000 students. | Sep 27 17:32 |
twitter1 | I missed it here | Sep 27 17:32 |
twitter1 | but thanks | Sep 27 17:32 |
amarsh04 | does it reference any other URL's? I don't go on to slashdot.org much | Sep 27 17:33 |
twitter1 | 250,000 unusable computers sold with a phantom OS. | Sep 27 17:33 |
MinceR | luckily, it's still on the gentoo mirrors | Sep 27 17:34 |
amarsh04 | there has to be a few kickbacks or coercions from ms somewhere | Sep 27 17:35 |
MinceR | i don't know why the kde developers want to kill 3.5 so badly | Sep 27 17:35 |
amarsh04 | I like having snapshot.debian.net also | Sep 27 17:35 |
MinceR | debian/ubuntu would have been my next guess | Sep 27 17:35 |
MinceR | opera is being a little comatose now, so i might need to try something else | Sep 27 17:35 |
amarsh04 | neither do I, MinceR | Sep 27 17:36 |
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MinceR | is this the long-awaited, highly acclaimed opera 10 that was supposed to be better and faster? | Sep 27 17:37 |
twitter1 | I like the second headline from the linked story -> The world's "most hostile computing environment" | Sep 27 17:37 |
MinceR | it crashed at the Save As dialog. | Sep 27 17:37 |
twitter1 | what OS? | Sep 27 17:37 |
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MinceR | debian 5.0.1 | Sep 27 17:37 |
twitter1 | hmmm. | Sep 27 17:37 |
twitter1 | that's non free software for you | Sep 27 17:37 |
MinceR | someone please write a browser that doesn't suck. | Sep 27 17:37 |
amarsh04 | I use Midori if I want something quick for data entry on a site that requires data entry | Sep 27 17:38 |
MinceR | at least firefox is getting better | Sep 27 17:38 |
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MinceR | iron wouldn't even run after install | Sep 27 17:38 |
MinceR | i tried to compile it but couldn't even find where to start | Sep 27 17:38 |
MinceR | so i gave up on iron | Sep 27 17:38 |
amarsh04 | it was a problem with one of my old jobs... lots of data entry via browser, needed javascript and good keystroke commands | Sep 27 17:39 |
amarsh04 | Midori also does fine with google maps | Sep 27 17:39 |
MinceR | i installed opera for the links sidebar now | Sep 27 17:39 |
MinceR | if DownThemAll had an option to copy the URLs, i wouldn't need that | Sep 27 17:40 |
amarsh04 | was funny that I needed both google maps and openstreetmap.org to get all the data I wanted about one location - where a tram line runs between two salt pans - google omitted the tram line, openstreetmap omitted the salt pans | Sep 27 17:40 |
twitter1 | Konq has a nice sidebar, but I hate sidebars and never use it. | Sep 27 17:41 |
MinceR | :D | Sep 27 17:41 |
twitter1 | I prefer Konq's bookmark bar, which has folders and sub folders. | Sep 27 17:42 |
Xarver | Konq is slow and yahoo refuses to let me access :P | Sep 27 17:42 |
twitter1 | the most hostile computing rollout ever has already, "tracked one teacher using their device on a field trip in New Zealand." how reassuring! | Sep 27 17:42 |
twitter1 | Wherever you go with your shiny new IBM/Vista 7 netbook, big brother will be with you. | Sep 27 17:43 |
MinceR | and you will love big brother | Sep 27 17:43 |
MinceR | or else | Sep 27 17:43 |
twitter1 | LOL they are really going to get nailed alright > "There was no way we could do any of this on XP," he said. "Windows 7 nailed it for us." | Sep 27 17:44 |
twitter1 | They think they are going to be able to "upgrade" these things remotely by wireless while the kids are in school. I'm laughing my ass off. | Sep 27 17:45 |
MinceR | they'll "upgrade" themselves automatically, like before | Sep 27 17:46 |
MinceR | they'll just disable the part where it asks the user | Sep 27 17:46 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] 54 Twitter spambot adds in the last five minutes. @spam needs a bulk interface ... | Sep 27 17:47 | |
twitter1 | That works with Debian but Windows 7 with "Microsoft Office, the Adobe CS4 creative suite, Apple iTunes, and content geared specifically to students." is going to be a mess, before they are made part of a botnet. | Sep 27 17:47 |
twitter1 | I'm sure the 20,000 unit pilot program is already a mess, but M$ has bribed the right people. | Sep 27 17:48 |
MinceR | the kde download page is a mess | Sep 27 17:49 |
MinceR | "arts-1.5.10" links to arts-1.5.9, which is missing from all the mirrors | Sep 27 17:49 |
twitter1 | It's like McDonalds and Taco Bell bribed the schools to take over the cafeterias and then bragged that every kid would get a big mac and a pepsi every day. | Sep 27 17:50 |
twitter1 | Most hostile eating environment ever! | Sep 27 17:50 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] the new uk childcare rules really are that insane http://is.gd/3J3fd please sign PM petition http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/reciprocalcc/ | Sep 27 17:51 | |
phIRCe | Title: BBC NEWS | UK | Childcare help 'could be illegal' .::. Size~: 52.36 KB | Sep 27 17:51 |
phIRCe | Title: Introduction to e-petitions | Number10.gov.uk .::. Size~: 11.23 KB | Sep 27 17:51 |
MinceR | and they name kdevelop-3.5.3 and link to it, but it doesn't exist, only 3.5.4 does | Sep 27 17:52 |
twitter1 | Kids fling food. Big macs are protected against food fight protests with a special, just for kids, layer of wax around that must be bitten through. Mess is reduced by 90%! | Sep 27 17:52 |
twitter1 | Food goodness is factory sealed. | Sep 27 17:52 |
MinceR | what is the layer of wax on? | Sep 27 17:53 |
twitter1 | the extra effort of chewing and spitting out wax builds healthy jaw muscles and makes kid take time to appreciate their food. | Sep 27 17:53 |
amarsh04 | "Windows 7 crucifies education" - if "Windows 7 nailed it for us" | Sep 27 17:53 |
MinceR | vista7 put a nail in education's coffin? | Sep 27 17:54 |
twitter1 | Oh, I imagined the food equivalent of anti-virus for windows was to dip the food in wax. | Sep 27 17:54 |
MinceR | oh. | Sep 27 17:54 |
twitter1 | Wax covered big macs, the perfect food for growing children. | Sep 27 17:54 |
twitter1 | just like maximally restricted Windows and iTunes is the perfect software for students | Sep 27 17:55 |
amarsh04 | if all you have is a hammer "Windows 7", then everything looks like a nail | Sep 27 17:55 |
twitter1 | Yeah, but it was nice of them to develop a few token educational programs "just for kids" to put on top of those worthless corporate netbooks. | Sep 27 17:56 |
twitter1 | Surely the TCO of recreating all of the freely available educational software from KDE will be seen on the bottom line, when kids learn how to be good consumers. | Sep 27 17:57 |
twitter1 | Don't want those dirty free textbooks from Wikipedia teaching anyone anything, now do we? | Sep 27 17:58 |
twitter1 | Why give consumers a periodic table, dictionary, thesaurus, math plotters, compilers, debuggers or other tools for learning? | Sep 27 17:58 |
MinceR | i don't see what's their problem with letting kids learn from wikipedia | Sep 27 17:59 |
MinceR | kids get access to various political agendas that way too :> | Sep 27 17:59 |
twitter1 | Neither do I, but I wonder if maximally restricted Vista 7 will even be able to browse Wikipedia. | Sep 27 17:59 |
amarsh04 | I liked showing the grand-daughter that the bug she found in childsplay (free software) was fixed following my bug report | Sep 27 17:59 |
twitter1 | Chances are, some ass will put Wikipedia on a blacklist to keep kids from being able to look up the word "cunt" | Sep 27 18:00 |
twitter1 | That will be a good excuse, at least. The goal is to stifle free software and sharing in general. Wikipedia is a showcase of both. | Sep 27 18:01 |
amarsh04 | wikipedia helped me find a free as in freedom (source code supplied) pdf reader for ms-windows | Sep 27 18:01 |
amarsh04 | I put that on a younger family member's laptop and removed the pre-installed acrobat reader bloat | Sep 27 18:02 |
twitter1 | Well .... you won't be able to install that free as freedom pdf reader on your new, restricted Windows 7 netbook, so why should they care if you could find it on Wikipedia. Ban the site! | Sep 27 18:02 |
twitter1 | The new netbooks come with the entire "creative suite" from adobe. What could be nicer than that? | Sep 27 18:03 |
twitter1 | Don't you dare try to remove it! | Sep 27 18:03 |
twitter1 | The school will detect your transgression a continent away, and put it back, shortly after noting it in your permanent record. | Sep 27 18:04 |
twitter1 | These days, "permanent record" has a little more scare factor to it than it used to when that record was just some book in the principle's office. | Sep 27 18:05 |
amarsh04 | http://blog.kowalczyk.info/software/sumatrapdf/index.html | Sep 27 18:05 |
phIRCe | Title: Sumatra PDF viewer by Krzysztof Kowalczyk .::. Size~: 3.31 KB | Sep 27 18:05 |
twitter1 | I can imagine them sharing all the goods with your insurance company, for example. | Sep 27 18:06 |
twitter1 | kpdf rocks | Sep 27 18:06 |
MinceR | indeed | Sep 27 18:06 |
amarsh04 | yes, I use kpdf on this machine | Sep 27 18:06 |
MinceR | it's a pity it was replaced with okular | Sep 27 18:06 |
twitter1 | high speed and browser integration | Sep 27 18:06 |
twitter1 | hmmm, I have not seen that. | Sep 27 18:07 |
amarsh04 | too many linux software developers have forgotten what lightweight means - xmms2 is an order of magnitude more resource intensive than xmms 1.2 | Sep 27 18:07 |
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twitter1 | Wow, konq on 4.3 does perform better | Sep 27 18:11 |
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twitter1 | hmmm, I take that back, Wikipedia is doing well today. | Sep 27 18:12 |
twitter1 | Loaded very quickly on both 4.3 and 3.5 | Sep 27 18:12 |
twitter1 | I have to say that 4.3 is a vast improvement over 4.2 | Sep 27 18:12 |
twitter1 | it acts a lot smoother. | Sep 27 18:12 |
twitter1 | PDF reading in Konq now seems to come from "PDF Backend" by Albert Cid | Sep 27 18:17 |
twitter1 | I have version 0.2.1 | Sep 27 18:17 |
twitter1 | It looks and acts like kpdf | Sep 27 18:17 |
twitter1 | except it has a different way of switching tabs (contents, thumbnails, reviews, bookmarks) that is more obvious than kpdf but it eats more space. | Sep 27 18:19 |
twitter1 | backends is using ghostscript, of course | Sep 27 18:20 |
twitter1 | ick, it has a checkbox for "obey digital restrictions" as if anyone would chose to be restricted. | Sep 27 18:22 |
MinceR | well, at least it lets you know it normally doesn't | Sep 27 18:22 |
MinceR | also, it gives you the option to see how bad it would be if it did :> | Sep 27 18:22 |
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twitter1 | I suppose they are bowing to laws in insane countries like the USA. they can distribute it as restriction compliant without breaking those laws but they can't help what the user does. | Sep 27 18:23 |
twitter1 | backend has a handy presentation mode, so you might be able to convert all of the crappy power point presentations in your life to PDF and use Konq when giving lectures. | Sep 27 18:25 |
twitter1 | it also ties in with kate or the editor of your choice. those are interesting. | Sep 27 18:26 |
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MinceR | it's better to do them in beamer in the first place :> | Sep 27 18:26 |
twitter1 | thumbnail performance is as good or better than kpdf, but presentation of pages is a little slow by X forwarding via 802.11b | Sep 27 18:27 |
twitter1 | I still have some system related font problems on my install but these are minor and a great improvement over 4.2 | Sep 27 18:29 |
twitter1 | my verdict is very nice and promising but I'm not ready to give up 3.5 | Sep 27 18:29 |
twitter1 | Surely either is better than XP or Vista. | Sep 27 18:30 |
twitter1 | Debian testing is moving along nicely. | Sep 27 18:30 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] most depressing search term of the day for NotN: "jade goody naced" | Sep 27 18:32 | |
MinceR | i'm trying to install 3.5 into stow | Sep 27 18:33 |
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twitter1 | OK, here are the direct links to M$'s lame party video and the remix. First the remix http://www.youtube.com/v/gyas7BrbUFY | Sep 27 18:40 |
twitter1 | now the cringe thing http://www.youtube.com/v/1cX4t5-YpHQ | Sep 27 18:40 |
twitter1 | I have yet to watch this crap because they all use nasty flash containers. | Sep 27 18:40 |
twitter1 | I had to extract them by looking at html source on engadget, ick. | Sep 27 18:41 |
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schestowitz | Slashdot is hopefully paid by Microsoft because they have just FPed a Microsoft advert from Microsoft buddy Brett Winterford | Sep 27 18:51 |
*twitter1 laughs and laughs at M$ Launch Party | Sep 27 18:51 | |
twitter1 | they really expect LUG like activity from their hapless victims? | Sep 27 18:52 |
schestowitz | Heh. "obey digital restrictions" | Sep 27 18:53 |
twitter1 | despite the bad acting and corny lines, M$ has actually compiled a nice LUG session. I think LUGs around the country should have Freedom Lauch parties, where they do exactly what M$ thinks Windows 7 can do. | Sep 27 18:53 |
schestowitz | Not rights? | Sep 27 18:53 |
twitter1 | you have no rights when others can make arbitrary restrictions | Sep 27 18:54 |
schestowitz | I know | Sep 27 18:54 |
twitter1 | right | Sep 27 18:54 |
schestowitz | But does it say it? | Sep 27 18:54 |
schestowitz | A la fsf | Sep 27 18:54 |
twitter1 | hmmm, does what say what? | Sep 27 18:54 |
schestowitz | the gui | Sep 27 18:55 |
schestowitz | "restrictions" | Sep 27 18:55 |
twitter1 | ah, Backend. | Sep 27 18:55 |
schestowitz | Turns out that Linus uses microemacs as his editor | Sep 27 18:56 |
schestowitz | But he emphaises it has nothing to do with gnu emacs | Sep 27 18:56 |
twitter1 | It uses the term "DRM limitations" | Sep 27 18:56 |
schestowitz | Very imporatnt for him to distance himself from rms' baby | Sep 27 18:56 |
twitter1 | "obey DRM limitations" | Sep 27 18:56 |
schestowitz | He uses Fedora on all his machines | Sep 27 18:56 |
twitter1 | now now Roy, be kind | Sep 27 18:57 |
trmanco | this is strange | Sep 27 18:57 |
schestowitz | He mentioned Novell colleagues in his new interview | Sep 27 18:57 |
twitter1 | Linus owned up to using a version of emacs. I know that he tried to distance it, but that's laughable. | Sep 27 18:57 |
schestowitz | yo, balzac | Sep 27 18:57 |
twitter1 | he also said that he distro hops | Sep 27 18:58 |
schestowitz | balzac once spotted this in an old (2001) interview | Sep 27 18:58 |
twitter1 | Fedora is only his current distro. | Sep 27 18:58 |
schestowitz | Some say it's a subcoonscious attempt to distance himself from his dad | Sep 27 18:58 |
schestowitz | twitter1: yes | Sep 27 18:58 |
schestowitz | He changes | Sep 27 18:58 |
schestowitz | jono didn't market Debians to him | Sep 27 18:58 |
twitter1 | He's far away from his family, that is difficult. | Sep 27 18:59 |
schestowitz | http://icewalkerz.blogspot.com/2009/09/install-ms-true-type-fonts-in-fedora.html | Sep 27 18:59 |
phIRCe | Title: IceWalkerZ :- Born Free Live Free !!: Install MS True Type Fonts in Fedora .::. Size~: 89.85 KB | Sep 27 18:59 |
schestowitz | Why is his family staying in Helsinki? | Sep 27 18:59 |
schestowitz | Or rather, why doesn't he work from there? | Sep 27 19:00 |
twitter1 | No, he says he has his wife and kids with him. | Sep 27 19:00 |
schestowitz | He works from the basement with E-mail | Sep 27 19:00 |
schestowitz | Anyway, it doesn't matter | Sep 27 19:00 |
schestowitz | Too personal | Sep 27 19:00 |
schestowitz | He does excellent stuff | Sep 27 19:00 |
twitter1 | He lives in California, from what I gathered. His extended family, I'm sure, does not live in the basement with him. | Sep 27 19:00 |
schestowitz | The Novell devs he works with are kernel people first, Novell later | Sep 27 19:00 |
twitter1 | That is hard, even if you have the money to fly. | Sep 27 19:00 |
schestowitz | Poland | Sep 27 19:01 |
schestowitz | Not CA anymore | Sep 27 19:01 |
schestowitz | Portland | Sep 27 19:01 |
schestowitz | Weird typo there. | Sep 27 19:01 |
twitter1 | Of course, many people work so hard that physical distance is only a second barrier to sharing your life with the your family. | Sep 27 19:01 |
schestowitz | MinceR: Ingo is from Hungary | Sep 27 19:02 |
schestowitz | Molnar | Sep 27 19:02 |
twitter1 | I'm getting hungry myself. | Sep 27 19:02 |
schestowitz | Eay a MinceD cow | Sep 27 19:02 |
MinceR | i know | Sep 27 19:02 |
twitter1 | don't think I have any paprika | Sep 27 19:02 |
schestowitz | *eat | Sep 27 19:02 |
twitter1 | do have beer, that makes anything taste ok | Sep 27 19:03 |
schestowitz | I'll post some news soon | Sep 27 19:03 |
schestowitz | Microsoft didn't attack rivals this week for a change | Sep 27 19:03 |
schestowitz | But it's imploding so badly | Sep 27 19:03 |
schestowitz | It's fun watching them | Sep 27 19:03 |
*Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@93.102.38.133.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 27 19:06 | |
*wallclimber (n=ozma@ip98-165-33-243.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 27 19:10 | |
twitter1 | I think the renewed sexism attack should be counted as an attack on rivals last week. | Sep 27 19:15 |
twitter1 | it was dirty and indirect but it was an attack | Sep 27 19:15 |
schestowitz | The Murphy troll: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Murphy/?p=1691 | Sep 27 19:24 |
schestowitz | For entertainment only | Sep 27 19:24 |
schestowitz | twitter1: yes, I have another posts on it | Sep 27 19:24 |
schestowitz | My defense of RMS on Friday got many thousands of viewers and referecing | Sep 27 19:25 |
schestowitz | I took time to put it carefully and people saw it link-worthy | Sep 27 19:25 |
schestowitz | Same with Shuttleworth | Sep 27 19:25 |
schestowitz | There'a another one going on | Sep 27 19:25 |
schestowitz | They are lynching RMS and the GPL | Sep 27 19:25 |
twitter1 | has the attack on Perens spread yet? | Sep 27 19:26 |
schestowitz | This site is great: http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/ubuntu-install.html | Sep 27 19:26 |
schestowitz | Spread? | Sep 27 19:26 |
schestowitz | I didn't know Perens was attacked | Sep 27 19:26 |
schestowitz | He's got a family and he's not sexist | Sep 27 19:26 |
schestowitz | His son stanley ought to be like 14 now | Sep 27 19:26 |
schestowitz | RMS has no family | Sep 27 19:27 |
wallclimber | twitter1, i thought it was odd that after the announcement of IBM partnering up with Canonical in Africa, both Bob Sudor and Mark Shuttleworth were jumped on for comments they'd made | Sep 27 19:27 |
schestowitz | GNU is his baby | Sep 27 19:27 |
schestowitz | And he's attacked from many directions | Sep 27 19:27 |
schestowitz | The Big Business hates him witn passion | Sep 27 19:27 |
schestowitz | RMS influenced timbl, which created the WWW and now 'ruins' newspapers and stuff | Sep 27 19:27 |
twitter1 | I told you about the attack on Bruce last night. You kept reading it wrong.... | Sep 27 19:27 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: yes | Sep 27 19:27 |
twitter1 | Now lefty had jumped on it. | Sep 27 19:28 |
schestowitz | I saw this announcement in Bob's blog first | Sep 27 19:28 |
schestowitz | He pointed to NYT | Sep 27 19:28 |
schestowitz | It was like a 'plant' for them | Sep 27 19:28 |
twitter1 | it came from Skud of Geekfeminism, it seems. | Sep 27 19:28 |
schestowitz | PR with embardo/NDA | Sep 27 19:28 |
schestowitz | *go | Sep 27 19:28 |
schestowitz | Skud is OK | Sep 27 19:28 |
twitter1 | she took his statements out of context badly and painted him is a sexist | Sep 27 19:28 |
schestowitz | Dont' go hard on her | Sep 27 19:28 |
schestowitz | twitter1: no, those who cited her maybe did | Sep 27 19:28 |
twitter1 | what she said was wrong, scroll up and you will see. | Sep 27 19:28 |
schestowitz | She was quite polite, IMHO | Sep 27 19:28 |
schestowitz | And she relied on people's word of mouth | Sep 27 19:29 |
twitter1 | no, what she said was simply wrong. | Sep 27 19:29 |
schestowitz | Oh. | Sep 27 19:29 |
twitter1 | well she got spun | Sep 27 19:29 |
schestowitz | Did she retract then? | Sep 27 19:29 |
twitter1 | I don't think so. | Sep 27 19:29 |
schestowitz | Cause she signed by saying, if I'm wring, then I apologise | Sep 27 19:29 |
schestowitz | No big deal. | Sep 27 19:29 |
twitter1 | she's dug in and I doubt she will. | Sep 27 19:29 |
schestowitz | I doubt it was badly intended | Sep 27 19:29 |
twitter1 | Ah, I missed the "if I'm wrong" bit. | Sep 27 19:29 |
schestowitz | David Gerard knows her | Sep 27 19:30 |
schestowitz | She's now trouble if he knew her for like 15 years | Sep 27 19:30 |
schestowitz | twitter1: read end of letter | Sep 27 19:30 |
schestowitz | "The Open Leter" | Sep 27 19:30 |
twitter1 | it's pretty apparent from what I read that Perens wants to know why women are not going into free software | Sep 27 19:30 |
twitter1 | and that Parens has an open mind about things and is NOT as sexist by any means | Sep 27 19:31 |
schestowitz | To counter her is misdirected IMHO | Sep 27 19:31 |
schestowitz | Tuc Machines upset me more cause of Susan's disdain for Ubuntu | Sep 27 19:31 |
schestowitz | She keeps linking to it, but not linking it | Sep 27 19:31 |
twitter1 | crap. I cleared my scroll back | Sep 27 19:31 |
schestowitz | The attacks on RMS are worse | Sep 27 19:31 |
schestowitz | And petty Miguel plays a victim... | Sep 27 19:32 |
twitter1 | I just did a google search http://www.google.com/search?q=bruce+perens+sexist&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 | Sep 27 19:32 |
phIRCe | Title: bruce perens sexist - Google Search .::. Size~: 22.3 KB | Sep 27 19:32 |
twitter1 | looky looky at Lefty making the same trouble for Perens as he did for RMS | Sep 27 19:32 |
schestowitz | I see that the usual troll wrote about it | Sep 27 19:33 |
twitter1 | I'm not going to paste a link to that trash here. | Sep 27 19:33 |
schestowitz | I wouldn't pay attention to it | Sep 27 19:33 |
schestowitz | Where's Perens anyway? | Sep 27 19:33 |
schestowitz | He has gone quiet | Sep 27 19:33 |
twitter1 | Yes, he took the ball and ran with it. It's just as bad as the attack on RMS. | Sep 27 19:33 |
schestowitz | He has his personal blog now | Sep 27 19:33 |
schestowitz | And he had some job/project going | Sep 27 19:33 |
*yuhong_ (n=chatzill@pool-173-64-154-25.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 27 19:33 | |
twitter1 | Perens has been commenting like a madman on the lwn | Sep 27 19:33 |
twitter1 | check the IRC logs, I dug it all up yesterday | Sep 27 19:34 |
schestowitz | Waste of time | Sep 27 19:34 |
twitter1 | or the day before | Sep 27 19:34 |
schestowitz | Leave it alone | Sep 27 19:34 |
schestowitz | It's like talking about linsux | Sep 27 19:34 |
twitter1 | you will see and then you will want the links | Sep 27 19:34 |
schestowitz | I don't | Sep 27 19:34 |
schestowitz | Waste of time | Sep 27 19:34 |
twitter1 | and yes, it's a waste of time, that's the whole point of the attack | Sep 27 19:34 |
schestowitz | I have lots of MSFT news | Sep 27 19:34 |
schestowitz | I'll start posting tonight | Sep 27 19:35 |
twitter1 | cool | Sep 27 19:35 |
twitter1 | keep at it | Sep 27 19:35 |
schestowitz | About 10 posts coming | Sep 27 19:35 |
schestowitz | I have to group items first | Sep 27 19:35 |
wallclimber | ten? oh no! | Sep 27 19:35 |
twitter1 | but the M$ people are going to keep slandering FOSS leaders with this trash | Sep 27 19:35 |
wallclimber | :) | Sep 27 19:35 |
wallclimber | i always read BN while drinking my coffee, sometimes i forget to start work...heh | Sep 27 19:36 |
twitter1 | and it's such hypocrisy | Sep 27 19:36 |
wallclimber | what's bad about these recent attacks is that they know exactly what buttons to push to get people worked up...i think everyone's nerves are a little on edge lately... | Sep 27 19:37 |
schestowitz | http://penguinpetes.com/b2evo/index.php?title=little_annoyances_moving_into_ubuntu&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 | Sep 27 19:38 |
phIRCe | Title: Penguin Pete's Blog .::. Size~: 32.78 KB | Sep 27 19:38 |
schestowitz | twitter1: So don't feed the trashers > but the M$ people are going to keep slandering FOSS leaders with this trash | Sep 27 19:38 |
schestowitz | Let them dry up | Sep 27 19:38 |
schestowitz | Then they'll talk less | Sep 27 19:38 |
schestowitz | Look at Asay (ping MinceR ) | Sep 27 19:38 |
schestowitz | He blogs like 1/5 of what he used to | Sep 27 19:38 |
schestowitz | So he's gone off the rail, sort off | Sep 27 19:39 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Tory candidate not working for PR company http://bit.ly/2zIJi | Sep 27 19:39 | |
twitter1 | Note that I did not link to trash bag #1 and the coordinator of this attack. | Sep 27 19:39 |
schestowitz | His harms to FOSS can't be done as much as they used to when he mae FPs of stuff | Sep 27 19:39 |
phIRCe | Title: Tory candidate not working for PR company - News of the News .::. Size~: 31.94 KB | Sep 27 19:39 |
amarsh04 | I have not been able to understand where Asay is coming from or going to | Sep 27 19:39 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: thanks | Sep 27 19:39 |
wallclimber | :) | Sep 27 19:39 |
schestowitz | I usually think of you when I do the post and try to adjust the tone | Sep 27 19:39 |
schestowitz | Sometimes Tiemann | Sep 27 19:39 |
wallclimber | i've noticed! | Sep 27 19:39 |
schestowitz | If I write if when daemon in mind, I'd be trashy | Sep 27 19:40 |
twitter1 | yes, you can't have wallclimber laugh too hard now that you know she's got a cup of coffee in her hand. coffee is so messy when you spill it. | Sep 27 19:40 |
schestowitz | Look back at 2006 posts | Sep 27 19:40 |
schestowitz | It was a lot more blunt | Sep 27 19:40 |
schestowitz | ANdy Updegrove made some suggestions | Sep 27 19:40 |
twitter1 | I like blunt. | Sep 27 19:41 |
schestowitz | twitter1: na, I can mail her a keyboard | Sep 27 19:41 |
schestowitz | twitter1: blunt = no effective at influencing | Sep 27 19:41 |
schestowitz | Esp. 'outside' the 'choir' | Sep 27 19:41 |
wallclimber | I have lots of keyboards, plus i'm good at tossing them in the sink and giving them a good scrubbing | Sep 27 19:42 |
schestowitz | It doesn't help that MinceR keeps wishing for people to "Die in a fire"| | Sep 27 19:42 |
twitter1 | the best way to diffuse that is to look at the context and diffuse the lie -> (11:39:05 AM) wallclimber: what's bad about these recent attacks is that they know exactly what buttons to push to get people worked up...i think everyone's nerves are a little on edge lately... | Sep 27 19:42 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: I have 3 | Sep 27 19:42 |
MinceR | schestowitz: well, hicham is let to troll so what can i tell him when he attacks me? | Sep 27 19:42 |
wallclimber | i have a closet full of mouses and keyboards...people keep giving them to me for some reason. | Sep 27 19:42 |
twitter1 | direct is often best. -> schestowitz: twitter1: blunt = no effective at influencing | Sep 27 19:42 |
schestowitz | MinceR: I wasn't following | Sep 27 19:42 |
MinceR | schestowitz: he always does the same thing | Sep 27 19:43 |
schestowitz | twitter1: not really | Sep 27 19:43 |
MinceR | anyway, /lastlog _hicham_ | Sep 27 19:43 |
schestowitz | In USENET I'm direct | Sep 27 19:43 |
schestowitz | Saying MAFIAA is not comical to everyone | Sep 27 19:43 |
MinceR | if you saw me telling him to die in a fire you had to see what he said before that | Sep 27 19:43 |
twitter1 | MAFIAA is not direct either. | Sep 27 19:44 |
schestowitz | MinceR: he feeds the troublemakers | Sep 27 19:44 |
schestowitz | I'd just ignore it if I were you | Sep 27 19:44 |
MinceR | he's a troublemaker himself | Sep 27 19:44 |
*twitter1 feeds troll bits to /dev/null | Sep 27 19:44 | |
MinceR | i'd just permban him if i were you | Sep 27 19:44 |
schestowitz | You pick a fight w/ many people | Sep 27 19:44 |
MinceR | so if i respond to a troll, it's me who picked the fight? that's certainly an interesting view. | Sep 27 19:45 |
twitter1 | are you two picking a fight with each other? | Sep 27 19:45 |
schestowitz | twitter1: http://ekaia.org/blog/2009/09/26/how-to-get-your-bugs-solved-in-debian-kde/ | Sep 27 19:46 |
yuhong_ | I put a lot of links in the comments there: | Sep 27 19:46 |
phIRCe | Title: Anas blog » Blog Archive » How to get your bugs solved in Debian+KDE .::. Size~: 17.51 KB | Sep 27 19:46 |
yuhong_ | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/09/25/do-not-boycott-ubuntu/ | Sep 27 19:46 |
phIRCe | Title: DONT Boycott Ubuntu | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 186.53 KB | Sep 27 19:46 |
twitter1 | thanks Shestowitz | Sep 27 19:47 |
schestowitz | MinceR: best way to avoid it is keep silent | Sep 27 19:47 |
schestowitz | Silence is gold when someone annoys | Sep 27 19:47 |
schestowitz | It discourages the nuisance | Sep 27 19:47 |
schestowitz | Like petholoogical E-mails I get | Sep 27 19:47 |
MinceR | yes, you've told me already that the best way to handle trolls here is for everyone to keep silent when they appear | Sep 27 19:47 |
MinceR | andit doesn't work | Sep 27 19:47 |
schestowitz | I just ignore them | Sep 27 19:47 |
MinceR | s/di/d i/ | Sep 27 19:47 |
schestowitz | I does work | Sep 27 19:48 |
MinceR | if the ops ignore the trolls, who will get rid of them? | Sep 27 19:48 |
schestowitz | They leave when they get bored | Sep 27 19:48 |
trmanco | schestowitz: what charset do you use on bn? | Sep 27 19:48 |
MinceR | and how will the public log ignore them? | Sep 27 19:48 |
MinceR | you could at least silence them | Sep 27 19:48 |
trmanco | I doesn't look like utf-8 | Sep 27 19:48 |
MinceR | with +b % | Sep 27 19:48 |
schestowitz | Hi, yuhong_ | Sep 27 19:48 |
schestowitz | urf8 I think | Sep 27 19:48 |
schestowitz | *tf | Sep 27 19:48 |
schestowitz | You can view souce | Sep 27 19:48 |
schestowitz | *sauce/source | Sep 27 19:49 |
yuhong_ | Yep. | Sep 27 19:49 |
trmanco | yes | Sep 27 19:49 |
trmanco | you are right | Sep 27 19:49 |
twitter1 | they are paid for their work and won't leave -> schestowitz: They leave when they get bored | Sep 27 19:49 |
MinceR | more importantly, if the ops ignore the trolls, who will stop them from flooding the channel? | Sep 27 19:49 |
MinceR | any visitor will just see the flood | Sep 27 19:49 |
schestowitz | twitter1: they are not paid trolls | Sep 27 19:49 |
schestowitz | cj was pushed out for being a Microsofter | Sep 27 19:49 |
twitter1 | how do you know which are paid and which are not? | Sep 27 19:49 |
wallclimber | if they aren't paid, why do they do it? | Sep 27 19:49 |
schestowitz | He is still harassing me in Twitter | Sep 27 19:50 |
wallclimber | sometimes their persistance goes beyong logic... | Sep 27 19:50 |
twitter1 | ultimately, does it matter? | Sep 27 19:50 |
schestowitz | Not a day goes by without some stalking (he knows I never respond to him) | Sep 27 19:50 |
twitter1 | why not just kick ban them ? | Sep 27 19:50 |
*trmanco gives channel operator status to phIRCe | Sep 27 19:51 | |
trmanco | !kickban phIRCe 1 | Sep 27 19:51 |
*phIRCe sets ban on phIRCe.!*@* | Sep 27 19:51 | |
*phIRCe has kicked phIRCe from #boycottnovell (Don't take this personally!) | Sep 27 19:51 | |
*phIRCe (n=b0t@bl11-50-219.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 27 19:51 | |
phIRCe | How dare you kick me! | Sep 27 19:51 |
trmanco | :| | Sep 27 19:51 |
schestowitz | Hehe | Sep 27 19:51 |
yuhong_ | http://www.examiner.com/x-1449-Dallas-Libertarian-Examiner~y2009m9d2-Whole-Foods-boycott-or-buycott | Sep 27 19:51 |
MinceR | that banmask is broken | Sep 27 19:51 |
phIRCe | Title: Dallas Libertarian Examiner .::. Size~: 78.24 KB | Sep 27 19:51 |
schestowitz | Bots have no feelings | Sep 27 19:51 |
MinceR | there's an extra . | Sep 27 19:51 |
yuhong_ | Yep. | Sep 27 19:51 |
trmanco | no it isn't | Sep 27 19:51 |
MinceR | +b phIRCe.!*@* | Sep 27 19:51 |
trmanco | ah crap | Sep 27 19:51 |
MinceR | the . keeps that from matching any nick at all | Sep 27 19:51 |
trmanco | I wonder what happened | Sep 27 19:51 |
trmanco | this was working | Sep 27 19:52 |
*trmanco gives channel operator status to phIRCe | Sep 27 19:52 | |
MinceR | also, banning by nick is useless in most cases | Sep 27 19:52 |
schestowitz | !kickban phIRCe 1 | Sep 27 19:52 |
trmanco | !unban phIRCe 1 | Sep 27 19:52 |
*phIRCe removes ban on phIRCe.!*@* | Sep 27 19:52 | |
trmanco | :| | Sep 27 19:52 |
yuhong_ | http://www.boycottwatch.org/misc/wholefoods2.htm | Sep 27 19:52 |
trmanco | I need to check this | Sep 27 19:52 |
schestowitz | yuhong_: yes, I know | Sep 27 19:52 |
trmanco | !ban phIRCe 1 | Sep 27 19:52 |
schestowitz | What about it? | Sep 27 19:52 |
*phIRCe sets ban on phIRCe.!*@* | Sep 27 19:52 | |
trmanco | !unban phIRCe 1 | Sep 27 19:52 |
*phIRCe removes ban on phIRCe.!*@* | Sep 27 19:53 | |
yuhong_ | http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/278448 | Sep 27 19:53 |
*trmanco removes channel operator status from phIRCe | Sep 27 19:53 | |
phIRCe | Title: Whole Foods 'Buycott' Scheduled for Sept. 1 .::. Size~: 35.24 KB | Sep 27 19:53 |
yuhong_ | Yes, I know too. | Sep 27 19:53 |
trmanco | $this->SendCommand("MODE $chan +b $user.!*@*\r\n"); | Sep 27 19:54 |
trmanco | I had this right | Sep 27 19:54 |
trmanco | have* | Sep 27 19:54 |
twitter1 | hmmm, I misread your link, schestowitz. read ekaia as ekiga :'( | Sep 27 19:55 |
trmanco | strange | Sep 27 19:56 |
trmanco | :phIRCe!n=b0t@bl11-50-219.dsl.telepac.pt MODE #boycottnovell +b phIRCe.!*@* | Sep 27 19:56 |
schestowitz | Myth of the blue-headed step children < http://blog.nixternal.com/2009.09.26/myth-of-the-blue-headed-step-children/z >. Not true based on my experience. | Sep 27 19:56 |
phIRCe | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KB | Sep 27 19:56 |
trmanco | ./z | Sep 27 19:56 |
trmanco | ? | Sep 27 19:56 |
*wallclimber has quit (Nick collision from services.) | Sep 27 19:57 | |
*wallclimber (n=ozma@ip98-165-33-243.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 27 19:57 | |
yuhong_ | Yep, it is one of many problems with old style PR that rely on controlling the message. | Sep 27 19:57 |
MinceR | trmanco: remove the "." from "user." | Sep 27 19:57 |
trmanco | oh | Sep 27 19:58 |
trmanco | that '.' | Sep 27 19:58 |
trmanco | LOL | Sep 27 19:58 |
yuhong_ | http://industry.bnet.com/technology/1000664/seagates-ex-ceo-bill-watkins-too-blunt-for-his-own-good/ | Sep 27 19:58 |
phIRCe | Title: Seagate's Ex-CEO Bill Watkins: Too Blunt For His Own Good? | BNET Technology Blog | BNET .::. Size~: 67.5 KB | Sep 27 19:58 |
trmanco | *** phIRCe removes the ban on phIRCe.!*@*. <- I thought it was this one | Sep 27 19:58 |
schestowitz | yuhong_: wgar are you gonna do about it? | Sep 27 19:58 |
yuhong_ | Not sure, but it is interesting to think about this issue. | Sep 27 19:59 |
yuhong_ | http://money.cnn.com/2006/11/30/magazines/fortune/obrienseagate.fortune/ | Sep 27 19:59 |
phIRCe | Title: A candid interview with Seagate's CEO - Nov. 30, 2006 .::. Size~: 47 KB | Sep 27 19:59 |
*wallclimber has quit (Nick collision from services.) | Sep 27 19:59 | |
schestowitz | yuhong_: many things can somehow quality as "PR", but some people do it for a living and act nasty about it | Sep 27 19:59 |
schestowitz | Microsoft is releasing new spying tools | Sep 27 20:00 |
*wallclimber (n=ozma@ip98-165-33-243.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 27 20:00 | |
schestowitz | yuhong_: I have two Seagate drives, but I don't like the company | Sep 27 20:00 |
trmanco | schestowitz: request a cloak | Sep 27 20:00 |
trmanco | :-P | Sep 27 20:00 |
yuhong_ | phIRCe looks to be quite interesting BTW, as it shows the title and the size of the file. | Sep 27 20:00 |
schestowitz | They package Microsoft's patent rubbish on//in their HDDs (NTFS) | Sep 27 20:00 |
trmanco | yuhong_: thanks | Sep 27 20:01 |
schestowitz | Wetern Digital even does /restriuctions/ | Sep 27 20:01 |
schestowitz | trmanco: what would be the benefit? | Sep 27 20:01 |
MinceR | what restrictions? | Sep 27 20:01 |
schestowitz | No shares over network | Sep 27 20:01 |
MinceR | strange | Sep 27 20:01 |
schestowitz | Yeah | Sep 27 20:01 |
MinceR | how do they implement that? | Sep 27 20:01 |
trmanco | schestowitz: that is if you want to control the bot | Sep 27 20:01 |
schestowitz | No idea how they implement it | Sep 27 20:01 |
schestowitz | trmanco: I don't | Sep 27 20:02 |
MinceR | i've reformatted my WDs to ext3 anyway :> | Sep 27 20:02 |
schestowitz | And I won't hide IP either | Sep 27 20:02 |
trmanco | ah ok | Sep 27 20:02 |
schestowitz | No point to it | Sep 27 20:02 |
schestowitz | MinceR: same here | Sep 27 20:02 |
yuhong_ | And yep, I said that "this blog is about MS’s unethical PR practices, not general problems with old school broadcast style PR, which is a different matter. " | Sep 27 20:02 |
MinceR | currently i only trust WD and Hitachi HDDs | Sep 27 20:02 |
schestowitz | All drives except main partition (ext4) | Sep 27 20:02 |
schestowitz | Hitachi failed on me in a laptop | Sep 27 20:03 |
schestowitz | IBM used those | Sep 27 20:03 |
schestowitz | Lenovo maybe stil does | Sep 27 20:03 |
yuhong_ | Yep, Deathstar. | Sep 27 20:03 |
trmanco | !quit phIRCe | Sep 27 20:03 |
*phIRCe has quit ("Exiting!") | Sep 27 20:03 | |
*phIRCe (n=b0t@bl11-50-219.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 27 20:03 | |
*trmanco gives channel operator status to phIRCe | Sep 27 20:03 | |
trmanco | !kickban phIRCe 1 | Sep 27 20:03 |
*phIRCe sets ban on phIRCe!*@* | Sep 27 20:03 | |
*phIRCe has kicked phIRCe from #boycottnovell (Don't take this personally!) | Sep 27 20:03 | |
trmanco | hah | Sep 27 20:04 |
trmanco | thanks MinceR | Sep 27 20:04 |
*trmanco removes ban on phIRCe!*@* | Sep 27 20:04 | |
trmanco | test | Sep 27 20:04 |
trmanco | grrr | Sep 27 20:05 |
MinceR | np | Sep 27 20:05 |
yuhong_ | I personally dual-boot Windows and Linux and I found NTFS-3G to be quite handy. | Sep 27 20:05 |
MinceR | my ThinkPad came with a Hitachi HDD | Sep 27 20:05 |
MinceR | and afaik they used to be IBM | Sep 27 20:06 |
MinceR | (and yes, Lenovo still uses them) | Sep 27 20:06 |
yuhong_ | BTW, one of the oldest examples is Stallman itself. | Sep 27 20:07 |
yuhong_ | "In January 1984 I quit my job at MIT and began writing GNU software. Leaving MIT was necessary so that MIT would not be able to interfere with distributing GNU as free software." | Sep 27 20:07 |
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yuhong_ | "However, Professor Winston, then the head of the MIT AI Lab, kindly invited me to keep using the lab's facilities." | Sep 27 20:07 |
MinceR | the partition i share between linux and winblows is ext3 | Sep 27 20:07 |
MinceR | (via ext2ifs) | Sep 27 20:08 |
trmanco | !quit phIRCe | Sep 27 20:08 |
*phIRCe has quit (Client Quit) | Sep 27 20:08 | |
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trmanco | sorry guys | Sep 27 20:08 |
trmanco | everything should be stable now | Sep 27 20:09 |
schestowitz | yuhong_: yes, they offer support there | Sep 27 20:10 |
MinceR | well, kde3 failed to compile on mint 7 | Sep 27 20:10 |
schestowitz | Others in MIT get similar support | Sep 27 20:10 |
schestowitz | Google had Stanford | Sep 27 20:10 |
*wallclimber has quit (Nick collision from services.) | Sep 27 20:10 | |
schestowitz | People here offer me some level of backing too | Sep 27 20:10 |
*wallclimber (n=ozma@ip98-165-33-243.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 27 20:10 | |
schestowitz | In the sense that I can hang around | Sep 27 20:10 |
*wallclimber is now known as Guest1177 | Sep 27 20:11 | |
yuhong_ | And have you heard the phrase "pulling a Ratner". | Sep 27 20:14 |
schestowitz | Linux Audio Conversion Trick < http://vxjasonxv.livejournal.com/526692.html > | Sep 27 20:15 |
phIRCe | Title: Jason's Little Corner of THE INTERNET! - Linux Audio Conversion Trick .::. Size~: 52.9 KB | Sep 27 20:15 |
schestowitz | Guest1177 (Wallc): will cday come hanging around soon? | Sep 27 20:15 |
schestowitz | yuhong_: I saw this earlier | Sep 27 20:15 |
schestowitz | Didn't get the reference | Sep 27 20:15 |
schestowitz | My relative in Florida ia am Ratnet | Sep 27 20:15 |
schestowitz | *a Ratner | Sep 27 20:15 |
yuhong_ | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2010949.stm | Sep 27 20:16 |
phIRCe | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 85.66 KB | Sep 27 20:16 |
schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brett_Ratner | Sep 27 20:16 |
phIRCe | Title: Brett Ratner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 59.76 KB | Sep 27 20:16 |
yuhong_ | Nope. | Sep 27 20:16 |
yuhong_ | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2010949.stm | Sep 27 20:16 |
phIRCe | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 85.71 KB | Sep 27 20:16 |
yuhong_ | http://www.nolandgrab.org/archives/2007/04/lexicon_pulling.html | Sep 27 20:17 |
phIRCe | Title: No Land Grab: Lexicon: "Pulling" vs. "Doing" a Ratner .::. Size~: 7.01 KB | Sep 27 20:17 |
schestowitz | The First Geek Wedding At a LinuxFest http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/09/26/1821218/The-First-Geek-Wedding-At-a-LinuxFest | Sep 27 20:17 |
phIRCe | Title: Slashdot Linux Story | The First Geek Wedding At a LinuxFest .::. Size~: 129.99 KB | Sep 27 20:17 |
yuhong_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doing_a_Ratner | Sep 27 20:17 |
phIRCe | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KB | Sep 27 20:17 |
yuhong_ | Get it now? | Sep 27 20:18 |
schestowitz | Yes | Sep 27 20:18 |
yuhong_ | I really mean "doing a Ratner" | Sep 27 20:18 |
schestowitz | http://www.ubuntugeek.com/eee-control-utility-for-controlling-eee-pc-hardware.html | Sep 27 20:20 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Be thankful they don't build cars like they used to http://is.gd/3JfZe | Sep 27 20:20 | |
phIRCe | Title: Pics Aplenty: IIHS reveals before and after of Malibu/Bel Air crash — Autoblog .::. Size~: 113.76 KB | Sep 27 20:20 |
phIRCe | Title: eee-control Utility for controlling Eee PC hardware | Ubuntu Geek .::. Size~: 37.78 KB | Sep 27 20:20 |
yuhong_ | I wonder what would happen if a company publish a blog article showing the political opinion of all the senior execs, not just the CEO. | Sep 27 20:21 |
schestowitz | Like Mandriva? | Sep 27 20:21 |
schestowitz | http://balau82.wordpress.com/2009/09/26/ubuntu-live-cd-with-lvm-capability/ | Sep 27 20:22 |
yuhong_ | After all, the CEO of Whole Foods ended up offending many by expressing their political opinion. | Sep 27 20:22 |
phIRCe | Title: Ubuntu Live CD with LVM capability « Balau .::. Size~: 34.69 KB | Sep 27 20:22 |
trmanco | wtf | Sep 27 20:22 |
trmanco | how did it strike out the title? | Sep 27 20:22 |
schestowitz | http://www.lockergnome.com/theoracle/2009/09/25/opera-1010-%E2%80%93-another-beta-with-fixes-for-more-than-unite/ | Sep 27 20:23 |
phIRCe | Title: Opera 10.10 – Another Beta, with Fixes for More Than Unite ~ Revelations From An Unwashed Brain .::. Size~: 71.84 KB | Sep 27 20:23 |
schestowitz | trmanco: I wondered the same | Sep 27 20:23 |
schestowitz | It's an odd symbol | Sep 27 20:23 |
schestowitz | http://my.stargazer.at/2009/09/27/a-different-kind-of-suicide/ | Sep 27 20:25 |
phIRCe | Title: A different kind of suicide - StarBlog .::. Size~: 18.5 KB | Sep 27 20:25 |
yuhong_ | If anything, it might show just how redicilous boycotting a company based on the CEO's political opinion is. | Sep 27 20:27 |
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schestowitz | Nice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVzzF_ft7uc | Sep 27 20:29 |
phIRCe | Title: YouTube - Cuteness 4.6 .::. Size~: 101.53 KB | Sep 27 20:29 |
schestowitz | Jeremy Allison does a Ballmer: http://danlynch.org/blog/2009/09/lad3/ | Sep 27 20:33 |
phIRCe | Title: LinuxCon Audio Diary 3 | Adventures In Open Source .::. Size~: 26.15 KB | Sep 27 20:33 |
trmanco | http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/09/23/basic-flaw-reveals-source-code-to-3300-popular-websites/ | Sep 27 20:35 |
phIRCe | Title: Basic Flaw Reveals Source Code to 3,300 Popular Websites .::. Size~: 97.05 KB | Sep 27 20:35 |
trmanco | SVN fail | Sep 27 20:35 |
trmanco | never liked SVN | Sep 27 20:36 |
MinceR | i liked it when it was my first VCS :> | Sep 27 20:37 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] SVN Basic Flaw Reveals Source Code to 3,300 Popular Websites: http://is.gd/3JhsF | Sep 27 20:37 | |
trmanco | heh | Sep 27 20:37 |
phIRCe | Title: Basic Flaw Reveals Source Code to 3,300 Popular Websites .::. Size~: 97.05 KB | Sep 27 20:37 |
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twitter1 | it is more that his opinion, it's company policy -> yuhong_: If anything, it might show just how redicilous boycotting a company based on the CEO's political opinion is. | Sep 27 20:38 |
twitter1 | both unions and big food hate Whole Foods. Those are both powerful and will seek to destroy the company via smears. | Sep 27 20:39 |
twitter1 | Overall, I think the company is useful and brings value. | Sep 27 20:39 |
twitter1 | I enjoyed working there but saw some bad directions in the increase of temporary workers. | Sep 27 20:40 |
twitter1 | Whole Foods is also pinched by insurance companies, as is everyone. | Sep 27 20:40 |
twitter1 | I would not boycott the place. | Sep 27 20:41 |
*maxriskfactor has quit ("Leaving") | Sep 27 20:42 | |
twitter1 | In fact, I don't know of any other grocer that cares as much about food purity. Their stand on GMOs, harmful ingredients and fair market support of a diversity of food companies are admirable and is key to their success. | Sep 27 20:42 |
twitter1 | They have attracted their labor force by paying better than prevailing union wages. | Sep 27 20:43 |
twitter1 | and they have shared the success via stock options | Sep 27 20:43 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] how trickle-down economics works http://bit.ly/1HU9LN | Sep 27 20:46 | |
phIRCe | Title: The Best Inequality Graph « Consider the Evidence .::. Size~: 90.47 KB | Sep 27 20:46 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] 800 pilotos da TAP têm salário médio bruto de 8.600 euros: http://is.gd/3JiHR | Sep 27 20:53 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why Laboratories Are Good Destination for #GNU #Linux http://bit.ly/bulV1 | Sep 27 20:56 | |
phIRCe | Title: Linux Training and the Use of Labs | Linux Training Classes and Courses .::. Size~: 23.53 KB | Sep 27 20:56 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Investor Realises #GNU #Linux is Likely Much Bigger in the Future http://bit.ly/ZJEwP | Sep 27 20:58 | |
phIRCe | Title: InvestorGeeks » Blog Archive » Is Linux the New Threat? .::. Size~: 29.87 KB | Sep 27 20:58 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux Still Ahead of #Mac OS X in Areas http://bit.ly/YZAX1 | Sep 27 21:00 | |
phIRCe | Title: JJinuxLand: Linux: My Mouse Ate My Homework! .::. Size~: 101.05 KB | Sep 27 21:00 |
hey wallclimber, why did you revert to nick Guest1177 ? | Sep 27 21:00 | |
MinceR | probably didn't identify | Sep 27 21:01 |
MinceR | to nickserv | Sep 27 21:01 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #XServer 1.8 Planning Has Begun http://bit.ly/zDJAB | Sep 27 21:02 | |
phIRCe | Title: [Phoronix] Proposed Process Changes For X Server 1.8 .::. Size~: 19.17 KB | Sep 27 21:02 |
I like the trickle down graph, but the people at L graph show a big flaw in the 1% top income data. | Sep 27 21:02 | |
1% is 3,000,000 people | Sep 27 21:02 | |
averaging their income is not a good idea and hides the ballooning income of the top .5 and .1% | Sep 27 21:03 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #LinuxFest Brings Together Men and Women http://bit.ly/noP6X | Sep 27 21:03 | |
phIRCe | Title: Slashdot Linux Story | The First Geek Wedding At a LinuxFest .::. Size~: 128.73 KB | Sep 27 21:03 |
it is doubtful that 3,000,000 people in the US make $1,000,000 per year. They only appear to do so because people like Bill Gates make billions. | Sep 27 21:04 | |
one person with a billion dollar income can bring the average of 1,000 people to a million, so we might find people in the top 1% making about as little as $100,000 | Sep 27 21:07 | |
The graph creates the false impression of distribution. Looking at the graph we imagine the top 1% are only about 10x larger earners than everyone else. In reality, the top earners are beating them out by a three or four orders of magnitude. | Sep 27 21:10 | |
The distribution really is a big L shape. | Sep 27 21:10 | |
MinceR | i think the tendency is more important | Sep 27 21:10 |
The tendency is important, but the real picture of distribution is what counts. | Sep 27 21:11 | |
all of us are on the bottom leg of a long flat pile of nothing. a few dozen or hundred people like Bill Gates sit on top of wealth and power that are unimaginable and unjustifiable. | Sep 27 21:12 | |
MinceR | and they don't even know what to do with it | Sep 27 21:12 |
I think the cut of the US's top 1% has gone over 30% of all revenues. | Sep 27 21:12 | |
oh, they know what to do with it. | Sep 27 21:12 | |
They have the world's biggest pleasure boats, private resorts everywhere, dozens of homes, private planes, etc, etc. | Sep 27 21:13 | |
*Xarver (n=kenny@cpe-76-173-101-172.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 27 21:13 | |
Frisky young trophy wives. | Sep 27 21:14 | |
and, as we have seen, in the case of Ballmer and Gates, they can be exceedingly petty and vindictive towards those who challenge them in any way. | Sep 27 21:15 | |
MinceR | yes, they mostly just get more of the same | Sep 27 21:16 |
MinceR | like i said, they don't even know what to do with it | Sep 27 21:17 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Qt Gets Fantastic New Features in 4.6, #KDE Turns to Lifestyle http://bit.ly/15J9Jp http://bit.ly/18KM6c #video | Sep 27 21:19 | |
phIRCe | Title: Cuteness 4.6 | Enrico Ros .::. Size~: 37.75 KB | Sep 27 21:19 |
phIRCe | Title: H. Skott on kde stuff: Howto integrate KDE into your life .::. Size~: 63.14 KB | Sep 27 21:19 |
MinceR | i'm more interested in how to integrate kde3 into my mint | Sep 27 21:20 |
MinceR | making the damn thing compile in the first place | Sep 27 21:20 |
MinceR | why are there no sane distros that, when making a _stable_ release, they actually make it out of _stable_ releases of packages? | Sep 27 21:21 |
trmanco | http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/09/25/an-honest-windows-7-review/ | Sep 27 21:24 |
phIRCe | Title: The Open Sourcerer » An Honest Windows 7 Review .::. Size~: 41.1 KB | Sep 27 21:24 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #PCLinuxOS 2009.2 Impresses Reviewer http://bit.ly/2WjbLQ #gnu #linux | Sep 27 21:25 | |
phIRCe | Title: IT Lure: Distro Hoppin`: PCLinuxOS 2009.2 .::. Size~: 76.39 KB | Sep 27 21:25 |
Xarver | nice link trmanco | Sep 27 21:26 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The #Ubuntu Powerhouse Starts Thinking Business http://bit.ly/y2CPa http://bit.ly/13yTtR http://bit.ly/xxaTc | Sep 27 21:26 | |
phIRCe | Title: Ubuntu business model- a misunderstood concept | GHABUNTU .::. Size~: 101.03 KB | Sep 27 21:26 |
phIRCe | Title: Canonical/Ubuntu CEO Mark Shuttleworth Visits Dell | WorksWithU .::. Size~: 49.21 KB | Sep 27 21:26 |
phIRCe | Title: OMG! UBUNTU!: Ubuntu Software Store Renamed .::. Size~: 128.71 KB | Sep 27 21:26 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux Phones Diversity Celebrated http://bit.ly/12xDqa | Sep 27 21:33 | |
phIRCe | Title: Operating Systems that power your mobile phones 3 .::. Size~: 55.87 KB | Sep 27 21:33 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] theora 1.1 is released – what you should know: http://is.gd/3JlKt | Sep 27 21:35 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Jolicloud: #Linux Good, Web Obsession ( #FogComputing ) bad http://bit.ly/2vZCjx | Sep 27 21:35 | |
phIRCe | Title: theora 1.1 is released what you should know at hacks.mozilla.org .::. Size~: 41.77 KB | Sep 27 21:35 |
trmanco | LOL | Sep 27 21:35 |
trmanco | MinceR: what is the ascii code to strikeout irc messages? | Sep 27 21:36 |
MinceR | i don't think any exists | Sep 27 21:36 |
trmanco | :| | Sep 27 21:36 |
MinceR | but the last time you mentioned strikeout i saw an inverted S in the message | Sep 27 21:36 |
trmanco | :O | Sep 27 21:36 |
MinceR | so i suppose that's what irssi converted the offending character into | Sep 27 21:36 |
MinceR | i'll check if the log still has it | Sep 27 21:37 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Subnotebooks Based on #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux 9.10 Looks Good, Work Properly http://bit.ly/jCbyq http://bit.ly/8chPX | Sep 27 21:37 | |
phIRCe | Title: [Phoronix] Ubuntu 9.10 Netbook Remix Is Looking Great .::. Size~: 21.99 KB | Sep 27 21:37 |
phIRCe | Title: the dude abides: Ubuntu Netbook Remix Karmic .::. Size~: 92.74 KB | Sep 27 21:37 |
MinceR | less says it's a ^S (Ctrl+S) | Sep 27 21:37 |
trmanco | http://blog.mozilla.com/faaborg/2009/09/24/no-ribbon-planned-for-the-firefox-ui/ | Sep 27 21:38 |
phIRCe | Title: Alex Faaborg - » No Ribbon Planned for the Firefox UI .::. Size~: 43.51 KB | Sep 27 21:38 |
trmanco | h | Sep 27 21:38 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] VT #Schools Pressured to Move to #FreeSoftware http://bit.ly/1D7hj1 | Sep 27 21:43 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Qt 4.6 does the shiny http://bit.ly/15J9Jp (HT@schestowitz) | Sep 27 21:43 | |
phIRCe | Title: OSS push in VT Schools and Local Gov « DoctorMO's Blog .::. Size~: 19.75 KB | Sep 27 21:43 |
phIRCe | Title: Cuteness 4.6 | Enrico Ros .::. Size~: 38.5 KB | Sep 27 21:43 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux and #FreeSoftware Help End Copyright Infringement/Counterfeiting http://bit.ly/MKWo8 | Sep 27 21:44 | |
phIRCe | Title: GNU/Linux and FOSS versus Software Piracy The ERACC Web Log .::. Size~: 85.07 KB | Sep 27 21:44 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] KDE Programming Gets a Boost from Google Summer of Code http://bit.ly/zxIVG | Sep 27 21:46 | |
phIRCe | Title: What I Did On My Summer Holiday | KDE.news .::. Size~: 36.63 KB | Sep 27 21:46 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #TexasInstruments Already Criticised for Hampering #Hackers http://bit.ly/3DnQMH | Sep 27 21:52 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♻ @schestowitz: KDE Programming Gets a Boost from Google Summer of Code http://bit.ly/zxIVG | Sep 27 21:52 | |
phIRCe | Title: Hey, TI, Leave Those Kids Alone / Fighting hobbyists with the DMCA | Privacy Digest .::. Size~: 33.85 KB | Sep 27 21:52 |
phIRCe | Title: What I Did On My Summer Holiday | KDE.news .::. Size~: 36.63 KB | Sep 27 21:52 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Verizon and AT&T Fight Against #NetNeutrality in Wireless http://bit.ly/154vsq | Sep 27 21:53 | |
phIRCe | Title: Verizon, AT&T: Net neutrality not OK for wireless | Signal Strength - CNET News .::. Size~: 244.84 KB | Sep 27 21:53 |
*Diablo-D3 (n=diablo@68.238.49.173) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 27 21:55 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Appeals After Deliberately Breaking #Patent #Law http://bit.ly/cyLIw #intellectualmonopolies | Sep 27 21:56 | |
phIRCe | Title: As I4i-Microsoft Appeal Nears, Injunction, Damages At Stake - WSJ.com .::. Size~: 111.73 KB | Sep 27 21:56 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Scientist: #Software is Maths; #RichardStallman to Speak About #SoftwarePatents http://bit.ly/3LqmJp | Sep 27 21:57 | |
phIRCe | Title: Universal kernel code to keep computers safe - tech - 28 August 2009 - New Scientist .::. Size~: 65.03 KB | Sep 27 21:57 |
tessier | Did anyone else think that the law firm's defense of software patents posted to groklaw was rather weak? | Sep 27 21:59 |
Diablo-D3 | of course it'll be weak | Sep 27 22:02 |
Diablo-D3 | they're illegal under US law | Sep 27 22:02 |
Diablo-D3 | any lawyer knows this | Sep 27 22:02 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another #Microsoft Vice President Quits http://bit.ly/13WbVz | Sep 27 22:04 | |
phIRCe | Title: Cisco taps Microsoft exec to head collaboration .::. Size~: 126.57 KB | Sep 27 22:04 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #IBM Accuses #Microsoft of Lying About Market Share http://bit.ly/7v7Ye | Sep 27 22:06 | |
phIRCe | Title: Lotus goes after Microsoft's 'ridiculous and fabricated' figures ( - Software ) .::. Size~: 30.94 KB | Sep 27 22:06 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Hooks up with Banksters to Control News http://bit.ly/KB0IC | Sep 27 22:07 | |
phIRCe | Title: Gulfnews: Citigroup, Microsoft to take on finance website .::. Size~: 73.33 KB | Sep 27 22:07 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #WindowsMobile Has #KillSwitch http://bit.ly/1vPqeq | Sep 27 22:20 | |
phIRCe | Title: Windows Marketplace for Mobile kill switch details clarified - Ars Technica .::. Size~: 44.34 KB | Sep 27 22:20 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Runs #Vista7 #AstroTurf in Twitter, Releases #AstroTurfing Software http://bit.ly/1nKWw http://www.clickz.com/3635086 | Sep 27 22:21 | |
phIRCe | Title: Windows 7 Freebies For Twitter Fans -- InformationWeek .::. Size~: 88.28 KB | Sep 27 22:21 |
phIRCe | Title: Microsoft Tests Social Media Monitoring Product - ClickZ .::. Size~: 32.11 KB | Sep 27 22:21 |
tessier | Dogrobot is injected into PCs using vulnerabilities such as browser holes. It also uses ARP cache poisoning attacks to redirect other Windows PCs in a local network to specially crafted web pages and infect them this way. | Sep 27 22:24 |
tessier | Wow. | Sep 27 22:24 |
trmanco | http://www.techworld.com.au/article/319861/mit_creating_microchip_could_restore_vision?fp=2&fpid=1&rid=1 | Sep 27 22:24 |
phIRCe | Title: MIT creating microchip that could restore vision - microchip, MIT, vision, wireless - Techworld .::. Size~: 58.71 KB | Sep 27 22:24 |
trmanco | twitter is b0rked | Sep 27 22:24 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] IE8 runs 10 times faster with Google plug-in: http://is.gd/3JpuM | Sep 27 22:26 | |
phIRCe | Title: IE8 runs 10 times faster with Google plug-in - Google, Google Chrome, ie8, Microsoft - Techworld .::. Size~: 57.59 KB | Sep 27 22:26 |
*PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving") | Sep 27 22:30 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft's #Vista7 Ads Gets Slammed Royally http://zikkir.com/content/359 http://bit.ly/MAaEG http://bit.ly/W2btx | Sep 27 22:30 | |
phIRCe | Title: This Microsoft Windows 7 launch video is, if possible, worse than that musical one « Industry News .::. Size~: 11.52 KB | Sep 27 22:30 |
phIRCe | Title: The worst Microsoft promo videos ever! | Crave - CNET .::. Size~: 184.01 KB | Sep 27 22:30 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another #Microsoft Product Dies: Dynamics Mobile http://bit.ly/21uIJk http://bit.ly/3slHWV | Sep 27 22:31 | |
phIRCe | Title: Microsoft Kills Dynamics Mobile - PC World .::. Size~: 64.66 KB | Sep 27 22:31 |
phIRCe | Title: Microsoft kills Dynamics Mobile .::. Size~: 58 KB | Sep 27 22:31 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Windows #Vista Still Open to Hijackers http://bit.ly/ThUeE | Sep 27 22:34 | |
phIRCe | Title: Bugs and Fixes: File-Sharing Vulnerability Hits Vista - PC World .::. Size~: 69.91 KB | Sep 27 22:34 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Xbox360 Business is Collapsing (Sales Fall, Other Issues Appear) http://www.talkxbox.com/article3338.html http://bit.ly/QT8Pn http:// ... | Sep 27 22:36 | |
phIRCe | Title: Betheseda Thinks Microsoft Screwed Up With Halo 3: ODST Marketing Strategy - News at TalkXbox .::. Size~: 16.4 KB | Sep 27 22:36 |
phIRCe | Title: Market Report -- Short Stories (MSFT): Briefing.com Business News - MSN Money .::. Size~: 23.47 KB | Sep 27 22:36 |
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tessier | Dogrobot is injected into PCs using vulnerabilities such as browser holes. It also uses ARP cache poisoning attacks to redirect other Windows PCs in a local network to specially crafted web pages and infect them this way. | Sep 27 23:05 |
tessier | Wow. That's hard core. | Sep 27 23:05 |
tessier | So one infected machine on the network can easily infect everyone else by being a man in the middle web proxy. | Sep 27 23:06 |
schestowitz | Any article about it? | Sep 27 23:13 |
*schestowitz watches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c76lYVY4cao&feature=PlayList&p=C2A021D1A1CBD633&index=2 | Sep 27 23:13 | |
phIRCe | Title: YouTube - Beyond Belief '06 - Neil deGrasse Tyson and Ramachandran .::. Size~: 156.75 KB | Sep 27 23:13 |
*seller_liar (i=c92b23a6@gateway/web/freenode/x-duhpxpypqhuuukyd) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 27 23:14 | |
seller_liar | schestowitz: have you You watched the movie zeitgeist? | Sep 27 23:16 |
Diablo-D3 | did someone say neil degrasse? | Sep 27 23:18 |
Diablo-D3 | woah, neil and god | Sep 27 23:18 |
Diablo-D3 | this should be interesting | Sep 27 23:19 |
seller_liar | I recommend to all guys to watch zeitgeist | Sep 27 23:24 |
Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: no. | Sep 27 23:24 |
Diablo-D3 | No one should watch that horrid piece of shit | Sep 27 23:24 |
seller_liar | why? | Sep 27 23:24 |
Diablo-D3 | Its the worst setup of a strawman argument I've ever seen | Sep 27 23:24 |
Diablo-D3 | I dont care if its true or not, its not helping the case any. | Sep 27 23:24 |
seller_liar | but there`s a lot of evidence | Sep 27 23:24 |
Diablo-D3 | it doesnt matter if there is evidence | Sep 27 23:25 |
Diablo-D3 | it doesnt present it in any acceptable manner | Sep 27 23:25 |
seller_liar | it helps to understand the actual economics of america | Sep 27 23:25 |
Diablo-D3 | the actual economics of america are very easy to understand | Sep 27 23:25 |
Diablo-D3 | you dont need a bunch of whackos trying to make it seem eviler than it really is | Sep 27 23:25 |
tessier | Diablo-D3: Economics are definitely not easy to understand. | Sep 27 23:26 |
seller_liar | and how usa tries to destroy everything for money | Sep 27 23:26 |
tessier | The whole system is hugely complicated. | Sep 27 23:26 |
Diablo-D3 | tessier: not at all. | Sep 27 23:26 |
Diablo-D3 | its very large, but very well understood | Sep 27 23:26 |
tessier | It is not at all well understood. | Sep 27 23:26 |
Diablo-D3 | actually, it is | Sep 27 23:26 |
Diablo-D3 | its largely a myth that it isnt | Sep 27 23:26 |
tessier | actually, it isn't | Sep 27 23:26 |
tessier | Your turn | Sep 27 23:26 |
tessier | nuh uh | Sep 27 23:26 |
tessier | yah huh | Sep 27 23:27 |
tessier | nuh uh | Sep 27 23:27 |
tessier | yah huh | Sep 27 23:27 |
Diablo-D3 | which one of us makes a lot of money via the economy? hint: its me. | Sep 27 23:27 |
seller_liar | Usa calls everything of `terrorism` ,but the fact is interest for money | Sep 27 23:28 |
Diablo-D3 | the US uses a fiat currency.... its only worth as much as what everyone in the world thinks it is worth | Sep 27 23:28 |
Diablo-D3 | its a representation of what people believe the actual economic output of the US is | Sep 27 23:29 |
tessier | Why do economic conspiracy theorists always run to the fiat currency thing? | Sep 27 23:29 |
Diablo-D3 | zeitgeist likes to claim that, basically, the representation is based on lies, which is false | Sep 27 23:29 |
Diablo-D3 | in reality, its based on an abstraction | Sep 27 23:29 |
Diablo-D3 | tessier: because it _is_ a fiat currency | Sep 27 23:30 |
Diablo-D3 | it is not backed by hard assets | Sep 27 23:30 |
Diablo-D3 | its backed by economic output | Sep 27 23:30 |
tessier | Indeed, it is. But what has that got to do with anything? | Sep 27 23:30 |
Diablo-D3 | because this is the cornerstone of zeitgiest's argument | Sep 27 23:30 |
Diablo-D3 | that there has been some giant fraud perpetrated against the world | Sep 27 23:31 |
tessier | It isn't just the US Government who says what it is worth. It is every single person who accepts the dollar as a form of payment that says what it is worth. | Sep 27 23:31 |
Diablo-D3 | they're trying to insert evil into an argument that has none | Sep 27 23:31 |
Diablo-D3 | tessier: I already said that | Sep 27 23:31 |
tessier | I have spent dollars in more countries than I can count. Everyone takes them. | Sep 27 23:31 |
tessier | Even the black market in Vietnam prefers dollars. | Sep 27 23:31 |
Diablo-D3 | every single last person on the planet controls what the USD is worth | Sep 27 23:31 |
Diablo-D3 | its based on what people think america is actually worth at the moment | Sep 27 23:31 |
tessier | With every single person on the planet involved in the US economy doesn't that make things pretty complicated? | Sep 27 23:32 |
Diablo-D3 | but heres the kicker: its based on what people _think_ | Sep 27 23:32 |
Diablo-D3 | tessier: see above. | Sep 27 23:32 |
Diablo-D3 | the economy is well understood because its underlined by that | Sep 27 23:32 |
tessier | The price of gold is based on what people think also. | Sep 27 23:32 |
Diablo-D3 | its whatever people think | Sep 27 23:32 |
Diablo-D3 | nope, the price of gold is based on math | Sep 27 23:32 |
tessier | I can go bid any price I want on gold. | Sep 27 23:32 |
tessier | The price of gold is based on what is currently being offeredn | Sep 27 23:32 |
Diablo-D3 | there is a very fixed amount of monetary gold in the world | Sep 27 23:32 |
schestowitz | seller_liar: yes | Sep 27 23:33 |
seller_liar | maybe the movie is not perfect in economical aspect,but | Sep 27 23:33 |
Diablo-D3 | what changes is not the value of the gold but the actual price in your current currency of choice | Sep 27 23:33 |
seller_liar | it tells a lot of `truths` | Sep 27 23:33 |
Diablo-D3 | ie, if I hold an ounce of gold in my hand, its still an ounce of gold ten years from now | Sep 27 23:33 |
seller_liar | companies control the world and the wars | Sep 27 23:33 |
Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: which really isnt true either | Sep 27 23:33 |
cubezzz | Diablo-D3, gold standard went away a long time ago :) | Sep 27 23:33 |
Diablo-D3 | there are many lies people tell themselves so they can keep living | Sep 27 23:33 |
seller_liar | christianism is based in egypcian religion | Sep 27 23:34 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: we really never had the gold standard | Sep 27 23:34 |
schestowitz | seller_liar: there is a better movie | Sep 27 23:34 |
schestowitz | Hold ob. | Sep 27 23:34 |
seller_liar | schestowitz: tell me | Sep 27 23:34 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: the USD has been disconnected from gold long before we officially quit the gold standard | Sep 27 23:34 |
cubezzz | water is more important than gold, way more | Sep 27 23:34 |
schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb26u9g8 | Sep 27 23:34 |
phIRCe | Title: YouTube - Money As Debt (1 of 5) .::. Size~: 148.23 KB | Sep 27 23:34 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: however, the standard is still there: the world banks have a specified amount of gold in the monetary system | Sep 27 23:34 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: it is strictly controlled and it grows at a very low fixed rate | Sep 27 23:35 |
cubezzz | schestowitz was talking about the utility of gold not long ago | Sep 27 23:35 |
Diablo-D3 | I can have an ounce of gold in my hand and I know exactly what its worth in 100 years in comparison to gold. | Sep 27 23:35 |
cubezzz | what did an ounce of gold cost 100 years ago? | Sep 27 23:35 |
schestowitz | cubezzz: yes, we did | Sep 27 23:35 |
Diablo-D3 | I also know in 100 years that if I sell it at spot price, I got what it will be worth | Sep 27 23:35 |
Diablo-D3 | and if I bought it at spot price 100 years ago, I paid it what it is worth | Sep 27 23:36 |
schestowitz | We should have baks stock polutonium instead ;-) | Sep 27 23:36 |
tessier | Diablo-D3: What good is gold by itself? You can't eat it. You always have to compare it to something else. | Sep 27 23:36 |
Diablo-D3 | tessier: because we defined it as money. | Sep 27 23:36 |
cubezzz | jewelry I guess | Sep 27 23:36 |
tessier | You can't eat money. | Sep 27 23:36 |
Diablo-D3 | it's intrinsic use is to be money | Sep 27 23:36 |
cubezzz | it does have other uses though | Sep 27 23:36 |
tessier | How many sandwiches will it buy you in 100 years vs now? | Sep 27 23:36 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: not monetary gold | Sep 27 23:36 |
tessier | That is what matters. | Sep 27 23:36 |
schestowitz | Better uranium in the bank cellars than in warheads and arsenals | Sep 27 23:37 |
Diablo-D3 | tessier: thats the basis of a fiat currency | Sep 27 23:37 |
tessier | monetary gold is just gold held by a bank. It is still gold. | Sep 27 23:37 |
seller_liar | gold gives value to money | Sep 27 23:37 |
tessier | schestowitz: Indeed. | Sep 27 23:37 |
seller_liar | without money standart money does not have a concrete value | Sep 27 23:37 |
tessier | schestowitz: If only we could convince the whole world of that and verify for sure that nobody is cheating... | Sep 27 23:37 |
Diablo-D3 | and no, monetary gold is gold that has been defined specifically as money | Sep 27 23:37 |
seller_liar | this is very bad thing | Sep 27 23:37 |
Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: wrong | Sep 27 23:37 |
Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: the USD is based on the belief of what the economic output of the US is | Sep 27 23:37 |
Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: its based on a much more modern standard: people. | Sep 27 23:38 |
schestowitz | Patents... | Sep 27 23:38 |
schestowitz | Intellectual 'property' | Sep 27 23:38 |
tessier | Diablo-D3: But any bank can melt down your mom's jewelry and declare it as monetary gold. | Sep 27 23:38 |
Diablo-D3 | why do you think 9/11 caused a serious economic problem? not because two buildings and 3000 people are worth anything | Sep 27 23:38 |
schestowitz | "You ows me an idea..." | Sep 27 23:38 |
schestowitz | "Or... give me all your minerals" | Sep 27 23:38 |
Diablo-D3 | tessier: yes, if they file the proper paper work | Sep 27 23:38 |
seller_liar | Diablo-D3: I think it`s not good | Sep 27 23:38 |
seller_liar | because people values are abstract values | Sep 27 23:38 |
Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: its actually very good, but people are afraid of other people | Sep 27 23:38 |
seller_liar | gold value is concrete value | Sep 27 23:39 |
seller_liar | for example , patents have value | Sep 27 23:39 |
cubezzz | the price of gold has been pretty constant... checking though | Sep 27 23:39 |
seller_liar | but for me , patents does not have | Sep 27 23:39 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: the value of gold has been constant | Sep 27 23:39 |
tessier | cubezzz: huh? Pretty constant? | Sep 27 23:39 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: the _price_ of gold hasnt because the value of money isnt | Sep 27 23:39 |
cubezzz | yes, for 400 years | Sep 27 23:39 |
tessier | value is always in terms of something else | Sep 27 23:39 |
Diablo-D3 | see, if the price of gold goes up its not because gold is worth more... its because currency is worth less. | Sep 27 23:39 |
cubezzz | only world war I and depression made it go way up | Sep 27 23:40 |
tessier | Diablo-D3: Not necessarily. | Sep 27 23:40 |
Diablo-D3 | the gold standard is designed to grow extremely slowly up to the point it isnt really growing. | Sep 27 23:40 |
Diablo-D3 | tessier: nope, exactly. | Sep 27 23:40 |
cubezzz | http://www.alef.com/oldgold.pdf | Sep 27 23:40 |
Diablo-D3 | they do not remove gold from the system, they only extremely slowly add to it | Sep 27 23:40 |
Diablo-D3 | its rather constant | Sep 27 23:40 |
Diablo-D3 | this is a scheme that is very very old | Sep 27 23:40 |
Diablo-D3 | if you really want to point out "evil conspiracies", go look at that one | Sep 27 23:41 |
Diablo-D3 | the system runs itself, and its beyond the reach of any government or reach "evil baby eating" group | Sep 27 23:41 |
Diablo-D3 | all banks participate in it in one way or another | Sep 27 23:41 |
Diablo-D3 | I can't go make monetary gold myself, and only a few governments can | Sep 27 23:42 |
Diablo-D3 | and one or two banks | Sep 27 23:42 |
Diablo-D3 | a coin or bar thats not from an accepted mint wont be accepted by people who deal in monetary gold | Sep 27 23:42 |
cubezzz | surely any country can make monetary gold? | Sep 27 23:42 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: nope | Sep 27 23:42 |
Diablo-D3 | if I was buying coins and someone had a coin from, say, argentina | Sep 27 23:43 |
Diablo-D3 | I wouldnt buy it | Sep 27 23:43 |
Diablo-D3 | it has no monetary value because I cant resell it | Sep 27 23:43 |
cubezzz | England must have had gold coins | Sep 27 23:43 |
cubezzz | I'm sure Canada did too | Sep 27 23:43 |
Diablo-D3 | now, if it was, say, a chinese panda, or an australian kangaroo, or a US eagle, or a canadan whatever they have | Sep 27 23:43 |
Diablo-D3 | then they're fine | Sep 27 23:43 |
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Diablo-D3 | I trust the coin of what it says it has in it | Sep 27 23:44 |
Diablo-D3 | bars are a little different, there are a couple private mints that arent governmental doing those | Sep 27 23:44 |
Diablo-D3 | as long as they have their assay cards proving whats in them, I'd accept them too | Sep 27 23:45 |
cubezzz | well of course there is counterfeiting | Sep 27 23:45 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: yes, but Im not talking about that | Sep 27 23:45 |
Diablo-D3 | Im talking about the original mint being dicks | Sep 27 23:45 |
Diablo-D3 | third party counterfeiting is not a big issue | Sep 27 23:46 |
Diablo-D3 | its very rare and very hard | Sep 27 23:46 |
Diablo-D3 | I can buy a book that tells me the specific weights of almost any coin ever minted in the past 100 years or whatever | Sep 27 23:46 |
Diablo-D3 | anything Im ever likely to come across | Sep 27 23:46 |
Diablo-D3 | the problem is coming across things that wont appear in books | Sep 27 23:47 |
Diablo-D3 | they're problematic | Sep 27 23:47 |
*cubezzz nods | Sep 27 23:47 | |
Diablo-D3 | so I wont take them | Sep 27 23:47 |
cubezzz | huge spike in the cost of gold in the early 80's: | Sep 27 23:48 |
cubezzz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gold_price.png | Sep 27 23:48 |
phIRCe | Title: Not a web page! Aborting... .::. Size~: Too big! | Sep 27 23:48 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: except that isnt the value of gold spiking | Sep 27 23:48 |
Diablo-D3 | the value of gold would be a very shallow incline on that graph | Sep 27 23:49 |
cubezzz | it seems like a panic | Sep 27 23:49 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: its a human thing | Sep 27 23:49 |
Diablo-D3 | this is why I cant _predict_ the economy even though I understand it | Sep 27 23:49 |
Diablo-D3 | people are illogical | Sep 27 23:49 |
Diablo-D3 | its like plugging a random number generator into a rather nice and smooth system | Sep 27 23:49 |
cubezzz | you still buy stocks though right? | Sep 27 23:49 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: not atm | Sep 27 23:49 |
Diablo-D3 | I needed to use my real money elsewhere | Sep 27 23:49 |
Diablo-D3 | I'm still doing it on paper though | Sep 27 23:50 |
Diablo-D3 | I'm getting much better at it though | Sep 27 23:50 |
vcent | now is the time to buy. | Sep 27 23:50 |
Diablo-D3 | vcent: I said this 6-9 months ago. | Sep 27 23:50 |
Diablo-D3 | like, I said buy SIRI when it was 8 cents | Sep 27 23:50 |
Diablo-D3 | its in the upper 60s now | Sep 27 23:50 |
vcent | .yes, thats right, ti's become too late | Sep 27 23:50 |
cubezzz | it's too late, yeah | Sep 27 23:51 |
Diablo-D3 | its too late to ride the spike, yeah | Sep 27 23:51 |
Diablo-D3 | its never too late to buy and hold | Sep 27 23:51 |
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cubezzz | I must check Canonical, if they have a stock, I think they do | Sep 27 23:52 |
Diablo-D3 | I dont think they do | Sep 27 23:52 |
cubezzz | hmmm | Sep 27 23:52 |
vcent | no they dont | Sep 27 23:52 |
Diablo-D3 | btw, you know whats ironic? | Sep 27 23:52 |
cubezzz | aha | Sep 27 23:52 |
Diablo-D3 | microsoft, by the numbers, is worth buying | Sep 27 23:52 |
vcent | yes, I't P/E is much better than some Nasdac | Sep 27 23:53 |
cubezzz | so let's see how Novell is doing :) | Sep 27 23:53 |
Diablo-D3 | I look at things other than p/e | Sep 27 23:53 |
Diablo-D3 | but yeah, the p/e has officially crossed into LOLCHEAP | Sep 27 23:53 |
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Diablo-D3 | novell is novl iirc | Sep 27 23:54 |
cubezzz | the stock's been flat for a long time though | Sep 27 23:54 |
Diablo-D3 | I dont like novl | Sep 27 23:54 |
cubezzz | 4.63 | Sep 27 23:54 |
vcent | P/E is roughtly the number of years it will take to recoup your investment High PE is bad. | Sep 27 23:54 |
cubezzz | cheap cheap :) | Sep 27 23:54 |
Diablo-D3 | p/e is way too high, RoE 5yr is way too low | Sep 27 23:55 |
Diablo-D3 | vcent: and no, its closer to number of years / 5 | Sep 27 23:55 |
cubezzz | yeah and I kind of doubt there's any Novell stockholders in here | Sep 27 23:56 |
Diablo-D3 | well, on the flip side | Sep 27 23:56 |
Diablo-D3 | redhat sucks too | Sep 27 23:56 |
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Diablo-D3 | tech stocks always have this high p/e problem | Sep 27 23:56 |
cubezzz | Diablo-D3, I made $$$ with Redhat | Sep 27 23:56 |
cubezzz | bought in, sold then bought in again | Sep 27 23:57 |
Diablo-D3 | as it stands now, I dont like it | Sep 27 23:59 |
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