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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 13th, 2009

Ender2070"I agree with this split 100%. Stallman is showing his ignorance in the extreme by putting forth the notion that all proprietary software and its producers should be shunned. Is it really that bad if someone wants to pay for software? Is it so bad to pay for software or use software that you paid for?"Dec 13 00:00
Ender2070lolDec 13 00:00
Ender2070you can buy free softwareDec 13 00:00
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Ender2070RHEL is free softwareDec 13 00:01
Ender2070the subscription covers supportDec 13 00:01
schestowitzhttp://techdirt.com/articles/20091211/0955157308.shtmlDec 13 00:01
phIRCe-localTitle: Piracy Destroying Hollywood Right To Yet Another Record Year At The Box Office... In A Recession | Techdirt .::. Size~: 63.41 KBDec 13 00:01
schestowitzHeh.Dec 13 00:02
schestowitzFree software confused with "pay"Dec 13 00:02
schestowitzThe Microsoft smear of "no free lunch"Dec 13 00:02
schestowitzAs though 0s and 1s are a 'lunch' you eatDec 13 00:02
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schestowitzhttp://techdirt.com/articles/20091210/2104287303.shtmlDec 13 00:03
phIRCe-localTitle: Apple Trying To Patent Anti-Tamper Tape | Techdirt .::. Size~: 71.06 KBDec 13 00:03
schestowitzJobs blowsDec 13 00:04
schestowitzhttp://techdirt.com/articles/20091211/1531517314.shtmlDec 13 00:06
phIRCe-localTitle: Tiger Woods Gags UK Media; Alerts World To Nude Photos | Techdirt .::. Size~: 59.33 KBDec 13 00:06
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schestowitzhttp://paul.kedrosky.com/archives/2009/12/beware_canadian.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A%20InfectiousGreed%20%28Paul%20Kedrosky%27s%20Infectious%20Greed%29Dec 13 00:12
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Ender2070racist linsuxx user: http://identi.ca/notice/16622321Dec 13 00:16
phIRCe-localTitle: Shane Gordon (notmyfuckingidentica) 's status on Saturday, 12-Dec-09 19:56:12 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 8.02 KBDec 13 00:16
schestowitzhttp://identi.ca/notice/16596091Dec 13 00:19
phIRCe-localTitle: snarf's status on Saturday, 12-Dec-09 09:16:09 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 8.72 KBDec 13 00:19
schestowitzEnder2070: don't feed trollsDec 13 00:19
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to trmancoDec 13 00:21
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitzDec 13 00:21
Ender2070yeah theres no pointDec 13 00:25
Ender2070its like arguing with a brick wallDec 13 00:25
schestowitzhttp://www.kdenews.org/2009/12/10/exploring-new-nepomuk-features-mandriva-linux-2010Dec 13 00:26
phIRCe-localTitle: Exploring New Nepomuk Features in Mandriva Linux 2010 | KDE.news .::. Size~: 30.97 KBDec 13 00:26
schestowitzEnder2070: at least it keeps those trolls away from BNDec 13 00:26
MinceRhow?Dec 13 00:26
schestowitzRMS gets the heat nowDec 13 00:27
schestowitzMinceR: keeps the anti-Freedom people busyDec 13 00:27
MinceRwhat does? identi.ca?Dec 13 00:27
Ender2070they poked fun at you suggesting I summarize the gnome stuff, which I wanted to do anywaysDec 13 00:27
schestowitzFor a while there they were attacking Brandon ( Ender2070)Dec 13 00:27
schestowitzActually, I think he came here to BN only after they had bash on on the head with a giant big dildo (you know who I'm referring to)Dec 13 00:28
Ender2070yeah I did come here after thatDec 13 00:29
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*MinceR rediscovers desktop meta-search toolsDec 13 00:39
schestowitzCheck out http://pclosmag.com/index.php/latest-mag/13-the-new-pclinuxos-magazine-december-2009-issueDec 13 00:42
schestowitzIt's really quite professionally done; I'm impressedDec 13 00:42
schestowitzOpenSourc3 is also goodDec 13 00:42
MinceRpclos become professionally done?Dec 13 00:42
MinceRor just the magazine?Dec 13 00:42
schestowitzBothDec 13 00:43
*jono2 is now known as jonoDec 13 00:43
trmancokumopeNDec 13 00:45
schestowitzcubezzz will love this: http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/HardKernel-Odroid/?kc=rssDec 13 00:46
phIRCe-localTitle: Hackable Android handheld game device uses Cortex-A8 SoC - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 66.99 KBDec 13 00:46
schestowitztrmanco: that's not a strong passwordDec 13 00:46
trmancoit's not a passwordDec 13 00:46
trmancoloolDec 13 00:46
trmancoread it from right to leftDec 13 00:46
MinceRit's a kde4 component spelled backwardsDec 13 00:46
trmancoexactlyDec 13 00:47
trmanco:>Dec 13 00:47
MinceRamsalPDec 13 00:47
MinceRnonohPDec 13 00:47
schestowitz?yhw tuBDec 13 00:47
MinceR.aedi on evah IDec 13 00:48
trmancoI dekr0B amsalP a elihw ogaDec 13 00:48
trmancoLOOLDec 13 00:48
schestowitz Dec 13 00:48
MinceR Dec 13 00:48
trmanco Dec 13 00:48
*schestowitz craps out with errorDec 13 00:48
Diablo-D3schestowitz: I mentioned that thing on my identica feed alreadyDec 13 00:48
MinceRbtw, i meant web metasearch, not file search :>Dec 13 00:49
schestowitzSame in some waysDec 13 00:49
schestowitzJust different datasetsDec 13 00:49
schestowitz"Come on, come to the cloud!" --TowelieDec 13 00:50
schestowitzhttp://s.bebo.com/app-image/7931303294/5411656627/PROFILE/i.quizzaz.com/img/q/u/08/04/03/towelie.jpgDec 13 00:50
phIRCe-localTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KBDec 13 00:50
schestowitzGoogle: "pay your data. Bring it UP to the hol cloud... wanna get high?"Dec 13 00:51
schestowitzA lot of businesses already hand their data over to GoogleDec 13 00:51
schestowitzThis allows all sorts of "Marshall" agencies (inc. IRS) to have a joyride, even if nothing is wrongDec 13 00:51
schestowitzThey could automate a scanner that finds misconduct in Apps spreadsheetsDec 13 00:52
Diablo-D3http://instantrimshot.com/Dec 13 00:52
phIRCe-localTitle: Instant Rimshot .::. Size~: 3.27 KBDec 13 00:52
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Stanford-creates-highly-conductive-paper/?kc=rssDec 13 00:58
phIRCe-localTitle: Nanotech ink turns paper into batteries - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 60.76 KBDec 13 00:58
_goblinschestowitz: FYI: Really enjoyed Linux Basement Ep47....excellent show!Dec 13 00:59
schestowitz"You obviously have no idea of Stallman’s stance on this. He says to sell software if you can, and even survived himself by selling tapes of Emacs. How about you really read what he has to say rather than spouting inaccuracies."Dec 13 01:01
Ender2070:)Dec 13 01:02
schestowitz_goblin: sometimes they have a crowd of 4... they are longtime Linux usersDec 13 01:02
schestowitzI only discovered them cause Linux superstar Susan (Tux Machines) links to themDec 13 01:02
schestowitzThey got a big surge in listeners recentlyDec 13 01:02
schestowitzA couple of shows ago fabs was very drunk and it put me off a bitDec 13 01:03
schestowitzhttp://linuxcrunch.com/content/krita-got-%E2%82%AC4000-donationDec 13 01:05
phIRCe-localTitle: Krita got €4,000 Donation | We love Linux ! .::. Size~: 24.98 KBDec 13 01:05
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Drinking coffee 'will not sober you up' when drunk" http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8403088.stm Interesting...Dec 13 01:18
phIRCe-localTitle: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 86.11 KBDec 13 01:18
schestowitzhttp://gizmodo.com/5422574/giant-mysterious-spiral-takes-over-the-skies-of-norwayDec 13 01:19
phIRCe-localTitle: Giant Mysterious Spiral Takes Over the Skies of Norway - Giant Spiral - Gizmodo .::. Size~: 78.56 KBDec 13 01:19
MinceRmalfunctioning missile :>Dec 13 01:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] When people see something they don't understand they usually think wrongly. http://ur1.ca/hnv6Dec 13 01:21
phIRCe-localTitle: This Is How the Mysterious Giant Spiral Happened - Military - Gizmodo .::. Size~: 76.39 KBDec 13 01:22
schestowitzUFO =UNIDENTIFIED objectDec 13 01:22
schestowitzNot 'alien'Dec 13 01:22
schestowitzNow it's identifiedDec 13 01:22
schestowitz"Russian military sources, confirming that this is a failed Bulava missile launched from a nuclear submarine in the White Sea."Dec 13 01:23
schestowitzNuclear submarine... keeping you safe at night, eh?Dec 13 01:23
MinceRkeeping you entertained at nightDec 13 01:23
schestowitz'Baking' the weapons of mass extermination deep in the ocean somewhereDec 13 01:24
schestowitzMinceR: disco in norwayDec 13 01:24
schestowitz"Hey, girl, the aliens are coming, it's the end of the world, let's have some fun.."Dec 13 01:24
MinceR:)Dec 13 01:24
schestowitzhttp://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/12/facebooks-new-privacy-changes-good-bad-and-uglyDec 13 01:25
phIRCe-localTitle: Facebook's New Privacy Changes: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly | Electronic Frontier Foundation .::. Size~: 33.54 KBDec 13 01:25
schestowitzZuckerberg is the ugly?Dec 13 01:25
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cjschestowitz: http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/12/help-saving-mysql.htmlDec 13 01:26
phIRCe-localTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBDec 13 01:26
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schestowitzWidenius is in Microsoft's fauxpen source foundationDec 13 01:31
schestowitzHere's what's bafflingDec 13 01:31
schestowitzoracle says too littleDec 13 01:31
schestowitzMoglen and RMS contradict one anotherDec 13 01:32
schestowitzEven Monty and Mickos contradict each otherDec 13 01:32
schestowitzhttp://www.techcrunch.com/2009/12/11/crunchpad-federal-lawsuit-filed-some-additional-thoughts/Dec 13 01:40
phIRCe-localTitle:   CrunchPad Federal Lawsuit Filed; Some Additional Thoughts  .::. Size~: 423.87 KBDec 13 01:40
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Omar87Hi all.Dec 13 01:42
Ender2070hiDec 13 01:43
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] The furthering epic of the #CrunchPad http://ur1.ca/hnw5Dec 13 01:46
phIRCe-localTitle:   CrunchPad Federal Lawsuit Filed; Some Additional Thoughts  .::. Size~: 423.87 KBDec 13 01:46
schestowitzhttp://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/12/poulsbo-mess-casts-a-shadow-on-intels-moblin-project.arsDec 13 01:50
phIRCe-localTitle: Poulsbo mess casts a shadow on Intel's Moblin project .::. Size~: 42.97 KBDec 13 01:50
schestowitzhttp://www.junauza.com/2009/12/joojoo-supposed-to-be-crunchpad-linux.htmlDec 13 01:50
phIRCe-localTitle: JooJoo (supposed-to-be-CrunchPad) Linux-based Tablet PC Unleashed | TECH SOURCE FROM BOHOL .::. Size~: 95.88 KBDec 13 01:50
schestowitzLooks nice!Dec 13 01:50
schestowitzBut cripple like Chrome OS junkDec 13 01:50
schestowitz*crippled for WeboholicsDec 13 01:51
schestowitzMoblin is dead in the water cause of ARM and other competitionDec 13 01:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] New Blog Post - BBC iPlayer Advert Contempt - Strictly Come Dancing | The Digital Prism http://tinyurl.com/y9jwwtoDec 13 01:52
phIRCe-localTitle: BBC iPlayer Advert Contempt - Strictly Come Dancing | The Digital Prism .::. Size~: 11.89 KBDec 13 01:52
schestowitzhttp://royal.pingdom.com/2009/12/11/retro-delight-gallery-of-early-computers-1940s-1960s/Dec 13 01:53
schestowitzNice shots: http://www.benkevan.com/blog/installing-opensuse-11-2-walk-through-virtualbox/Dec 13 02:00
phIRCe-localTitle: Installing openSUSE 11.2 Walk Through  VirtualBox | Ben Kevan's Blog .::. Size~: 62.31 KBDec 13 02:00
schestowitzgnDec 13 02:02
trmancohttp://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/12/12/135209/Dec 13 02:13
phIRCe-localTitle: Slashdot Linux Story | GNOME Developer Suggests Split From GNU Project .::. Size~: 174.45 KBDec 13 02:13
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Ender2070trmanaco - im responsible for that one :)Dec 13 02:18
Ender2070check out this comment, rofl http://www.pwnage.ca/?p=433&cpage=1#comment-328Dec 13 02:18
phIRCe-localTitle: Pwnage.ca » Gnome to Split Off from GNU Project? .::. Size~: 57.23 KBDec 13 02:18
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @aswinms: What is Rajinikanth's gmail address? gmail@rajinikanth.com....Thalai!!!! happy 60th birthday to you! (via @kedars)Dec 13 02:28
trmanco:)Dec 13 02:31
trmancoEnder2070: you are from canda right?Dec 13 02:31
trmancoCanada*Dec 13 02:31
Omar87trmanco: btw, I fixed that silly problem.Dec 13 02:35
trmancowhat was it?Dec 13 02:35
trmancoI meanDec 13 02:35
trmancowhat was the problem?Dec 13 02:35
Omar87trmanco: z-index. :PDec 13 02:35
trmancoah :-PDec 13 02:35
Ender2070yeah im from CanadaDec 13 02:45
trmancoToronto?Dec 13 02:50
Ender2070BramptonDec 13 02:53
Ender2070its in the GTADec 13 02:53
trmancocool, soon we will be "neighbors"Dec 13 02:57
trmanco:-PDec 13 02:57
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Ender2070oh really?Dec 13 03:05
Ender2070are you going to be in Toronto?Dec 13 03:05
trmanconoDec 13 03:06
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Ender2070brampton?Dec 13 03:06
trmancoMississauga Dec 13 03:06
trmanco:)Dec 13 03:06
Ender2070oh lawlDec 13 03:06
trmancoeven closer to BramtponDec 13 03:06
Ender2070thats where I lived last weekDec 13 03:06
Ender2070I just movedDec 13 03:06
trmanco:SDec 13 03:06
trmancoBrampton*Dec 13 03:06
trmanconeatDec 13 03:07
Ender2070thats awesomeDec 13 03:07
trmancoyeah, Canada is awesome too :DDec 13 03:07
Ender2070where did you live beforeDec 13 03:08
trmancobefore when?Dec 13 03:08
trmancoto keep it shortDec 13 03:08
Ender2070mississaugaDec 13 03:08
trmancoI was born in Hamilton, then I moved to Portugal, now I'm moving back to Canada again :SDec 13 03:09
Ender2070:)Dec 13 03:10
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] does Woverine use Claws mail?Dec 13 03:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Wolverine*Dec 13 03:21
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Ender2070lol emacs irc :)Dec 13 04:18
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yuhonghttp://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1476462&cid=30418756Dec 13 04:27
phIRCe-localTitle: Slashdot Comments | Microsoft Invents Price-Gouging the Least Influential .::. Size~: 36.77 KBDec 13 04:27
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amarsh04for schestowitz when he's back in chat after the Peter Watts link was posted: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/degrading-ordeal-over-for-tasmanias-top-cop-jack-johnston/story-e6frg6nf-1225809566973Dec 13 05:23
phIRCe-localTitle: 'Degrading' ordeal over for Tasmania's top cop Jack Johnston |  The Australian .::. Size~: 59 KBDec 13 05:23
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @madhusudancs: "If you want to start with NumPy/SciPy development, Sprint is the best place to start. Join us for sprints" - David CournaDec 13 05:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @fossee: "Programming language is more than just a tool in science, its a communication tool" - David #scipy #indiaDec 13 05:44
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Omar87Hi all.Dec 13 05:50
amarsh04hi Omar87Dec 13 05:51
amarsh04did you see this: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/degrading-ordeal-over-for-tasmanias-top-cop-jack-johnston/story-e6frg6nf-1225809566973Dec 13 05:51
phIRCe-localTitle: 'Degrading' ordeal over for Tasmania's top cop Jack Johnston |  The Australian .::. Size~: 59.03 KBDec 13 05:52
Omar87amarsh04: hey.Dec 13 05:56
amarsh04I wish our state and federal attorneys general also experienced the other side of the laws they are responsible forDec 13 05:59
*Diablo-D3 has quit ("do coders dream of sheep()?")Dec 13 06:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @dhempe: FB ALERT: new facebook privacy regulations have opened up ur profile/pictures unless u make them private! go ahead and do that sDec 13 06:15
Ender2070lolDec 13 06:18
Ender2070facebook is probably going to run into more issues with the Canadian government in this caseDec 13 06:19
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cubezzzis there a way to set colours in bash easily?Dec 13 06:32
cubezzzright now I'm doing: "echo -en "\033[0;34m"Dec 13 06:32
ThistleWebcubezzz: look in bashrcDec 13 06:38
ThistleWebthe arch wiki has back colour code helpDec 13 06:39
ThistleWebbash*Dec 13 06:39
cubezzzuh, there's nothing in thereDec 13 06:40
ThistleWebthat's where I found a list of colours and codes for bashDec 13 06:41
ThistleWebto fix the all white user@pc$ in the terminalDec 13 06:42
cubezzzI'll just write somethingDec 13 06:42
cubezzzI thought there was some standard utility to make it easyDec 13 06:43
ThistleWebhttp://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Color_Bash_PromptDec 13 06:44
phIRCe-localTitle: Color Bash Prompt - ArchWiki .::. Size~: 27.31 KBDec 13 06:44
ThistleWebthat may not be what you're looking for, but it's what I meant.....it may be of some hel[Dec 13 06:44
ThistleWebhelp^Dec 13 06:44
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DaemonFChttp://content.cartoonbox.slate.com/?feature=a5202534662ef388948e7f3cc101b66fDec 13 07:51
phIRCe-localTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBDec 13 07:51
DaemonFCHow trueDec 13 07:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] 30+ Windows 7 Features Phone Home to Microsoft: http://tinyurl.com/yb94ovz ... it's not spyware it's a feature...Dec 13 07:52
phIRCe-localTitle: 30  Windows 7 Features Phone Home to Microsoft - A closer look at the Windows 7 Privacy Statement - Softpedia .::. Size~: 87.54 KBDec 13 07:52
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DaemonFChttp://content.cartoonbox.slate.com/?feature=81c403eb1a88eda42adf8ffeef7891e1Dec 13 07:57
phIRCe-localTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBDec 13 07:57
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Ender2070http://identi.ca/notice/16634453Dec 13 08:34
phIRCe-localTitle: Shane Gordon (notmyfuckingidentica) 's status on Sunday, 13-Dec-09 00:46:52 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 8.01 KBDec 13 08:34
schestowitzhttp://www.mneylon.com/blog/archives/2009/12/12/yet-another-funny-tshirt/Dec 13 08:50
phIRCe-localTitle: Yet Another Funny Tshirt - Michele Neylon :: Pensieri .::. Size~: 48.26 KBDec 13 08:50
schestowitzEnder2070: don't feed those trollsDec 13 08:50
Ender2070trying... so... hardDec 13 08:55
Ender2070ill go the higher route nowDec 13 08:55
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schestowitzhttp://money.cnn.com/2009/12/09/technology/windows_7_problems/index.htmDec 13 09:11
phIRCe-localTitle: Windows 7 complaints rolling in - Dec. 9, 2009  .::. Size~: 69.3 KBDec 13 09:11
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] The bug filed with Chromium was fixed with 24hrs! I am currently running build 4.0.270.0 Happy to have been with this project from early on!Dec 13 09:20
_goblinChromium is really great.....in beta but Ive not had to run FF in a while now....Dec 13 09:28
oiaohm_goblin: competition keeps items strongDec 13 09:33
_goblinits so much faster than firefoxDec 13 09:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Currently running xPUD 0.9.2 for a review on Openbytes! - A tiny out of the box distro! #xpud #linux #foss #gnuDec 13 09:42
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_Goblinright!...xPUD is actually quite a good little distroDec 13 09:57
_Goblinblindingly fast load times...Dec 13 09:57
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] xPUD is very much in the vain of ChromeOS, that being with a cloud based ethos...Derived from Ubuntu its certainly out of the box!Dec 13 10:03
schestowitzxpud is interesting... scarcely reviewedDec 13 10:08
schestowitzI don't think it's originally Ubuntu basedDec 13 10:09
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oiaohmxpud is not ubuntu based.Dec 13 10:16
oiaohmIts part vampire.Dec 13 10:16
oiaohmhttp://github.com/penk/mkxpudDec 13 10:17
phIRCe-localTitle: penk's mkxpud at master - GitHub .::. Size~: 30.33 KBDec 13 10:17
oiaohmPart of xpud design is the means to extract the parts is need to operate out other distributions.   The current vampire target is UbuntuDec 13 10:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @manoharban: An attack on padyatra is being planned led by Salwa Judum backed by the state, tomorrow... - Himanshu Kumar, VCA, DantewadaDec 13 10:17
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*zer0c00l|Away is now known as zer0c00lDec 13 10:38
schestowitzSo it's not Ubuntu based after all.....Dec 13 10:43
DaemonFCQ: Do songs ever make you cry?Dec 13 10:43
DaemonFCMe: "A lot of the crap that the RIAA labels release could make me cry knowing I paid money for it and will never get it back."Dec 13 10:43
DaemonFCB-)Dec 13 10:43
oiaohmIts only ubuntu based when ubuntu is the targeted distribution to vampire parts from schestowitzDec 13 10:44
schestowitzDaily links done: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/13/preview-of-linux-2-6-33/Dec 13 10:44
phIRCe-localTitle: Links 13/12/2009: Preview of Linux 2.6.33, Krita Gets €4,000 | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 147.1 KBDec 13 10:44
DaemonFCwell what I don't get is why you would base anything on Ubuntu when Debian is the better choiceDec 13 10:44
schestowitzSays MEPISDec 13 10:45
DaemonFCthe whole reasoning behind Ubuntu was that they could get away with stupid crap that Debian would never give thumbs up onDec 13 10:45
DaemonFCschestowitz: MEPIS is a bad exampleDec 13 10:45
DaemonFCa real real bad exampleDec 13 10:46
DaemonFCthere's some good Debian-based stuff out there, not all of which happens to use LinuxDec 13 10:47
oiaohmYep there is some debian based stuff with a freebsd core.Dec 13 10:47
DaemonFCand with Solaris as the kernelDec 13 10:47
DaemonFCNexentaDec 13 10:47
oiaohmUbuntu guys still have the debian issue.Dec 13 10:48
oiaohmOver patching.Dec 13 10:48
DaemonFCNexenta is just bizarre, because it's basically Debian running on Solaris using ZFSDec 13 10:48
oiaohmInstead of moving to the newer version.Dec 13 10:48
DaemonFCif it wasn't for all the stupid driver problems (mainly GPU-related), I'd be using itDec 13 10:49
DaemonFCit actually performs quite wellDec 13 10:49
oiaohmFor server work I cannot fault NexentaDec 13 10:49
*zer0c00l is now known as zer0c00l|AwayDec 13 10:50
oiaohmdesktop usage it will drive you up walls due to poor support from Nvidia and ATI.Dec 13 10:50
DaemonFCI've been running my older laptop off of OpenSolaris for some time now mainly as a curiousityDec 13 10:50
oiaohmLot of the performance gaps between Linux and Solaris is closing.Dec 13 10:51
DaemonFCoiaohm: FreeBSD is benefiting from the ATI open source driversDec 13 10:51
oiaohmSo is solaris DaemonFCDec 13 10:52
DaemonFCDebian is a good base, but the average end user would be nuts to try to make a desktop out of it just because of how old everything in the stable release isDec 13 10:53
oiaohmFrom a stablity point of view Debian is not always the best.Dec 13 10:53
DaemonFCLenny is currently six kernel versions behind, for exampleDec 13 10:53
DaemonFCstability is great, but a desktop user probably wants all the latest features, drivers, etc.Dec 13 10:54
oiaohmAnd the kernel has back ported patches DaemonFCDec 13 10:54
DaemonFCDebian doesn't do that for themDec 13 10:54
oiaohmOne minor screwup and the stablity goes to hell.Dec 13 10:54
DaemonFCthe Stable release is frozen to everything but security bugs and major crashers and suchDec 13 10:54
oiaohmThe risk of back porting.Dec 13 10:55
oiaohmIs that you back port 1 patch and not another so breaking system.Dec 13 10:55
DaemonFCwell, it really kind of shocks me that they are trying to make a FOSS operating system for everyone, that's so old that it doesn't even install if your PC is too newDec 13 10:55
oiaohmThere comes a time when just update the part would have been wiser than back porting.Dec 13 10:55
DaemonFCso maybe it works on some old antique just fineDec 13 10:56
DaemonFCif you buy a new PC, you might have to wait for two years for Debian to catch up in a stable releaseDec 13 10:56
DaemonFCso you're kind of stuck on Testing and you get to be in limbo until it freezes and becomes a releaseDec 13 10:57
oiaohmDebian testing is supprisingly stable.Dec 13 10:58
DaemonFCnot always thoughDec 13 10:58
oiaohmNo sid is scraryDec 13 10:58
DaemonFCand security patches are not timely thereDec 13 10:58
DaemonFCSid eats babiesDec 13 10:58
DaemonFCI really like Debian but I hate their release cycleDec 13 10:59
oiaohmSecuirty patches are not on time compared to stable.Dec 13 10:59
DaemonFCevery time I've thought I'd make a nice workstation out of it, that's what got me back to using something elseDec 13 10:59
oiaohmReally release cycle is the wrong thing from a QA point of view.Dec 13 10:59
oiaohmWhen items are proven stable and quality they should move to the user.Dec 13 11:00
DaemonFCoiaohm: It's largely because they're trying to support like 12 architectures where nobody even uses most of themDec 13 11:00
oiaohmNot some arboratiry time frame or trying to have everything ready at the same time.Dec 13 11:00
DaemonFCincluding ItanicDec 13 11:00
DaemonFC:)Dec 13 11:00
oiaohmLets say they droped the fixed time frame.Dec 13 11:00
DaemonFCso if something goes wrong with a package on Itanium, it might hold up the entire releaseDec 13 11:01
oiaohmYou don't end up with things forced out.Dec 13 11:01
DaemonFCeven if it builds and runs on the other 11Dec 13 11:01
oiaohmYep fixed release patent nightmares DaemonFCDec 13 11:01
oiaohmpatent/pointDec 13 11:01
oiaohmAvoidable with release when ready model.Dec 13 11:02
DaemonFCa big reason Ubuntu can release so often is that they only care about x86 and x86-64Dec 13 11:02
oiaohmFixed release windows also cause Ubuntu nightmares.Dec 13 11:02
oiaohmThey release parts that are from development trees to stay ahead of the next releasing.Dec 13 11:02
DaemonFCwell, Microsoft tends to over-engineer things to the point where it becomes ludicrous and delays a Windows release for years, and gets scrapped in the endDec 13 11:03
DaemonFCand it's just a telltale sign of their organizational problemsDec 13 11:03
oiaohmAlso fixed point release again.Dec 13 11:03
oiaohmIts never has worked for anyone DaemonFCDec 13 11:04
DaemonFCMicrosoft can't do a rolling release without moving to subscriptionsDec 13 11:04
DaemonFCand nobody wants to buy subscriptions to access their own data on their own PCDec 13 11:04
DaemonFCso you get these big monolithic releases, 3-5 years apart that nobody looks forward to trying to install :)Dec 13 11:05
oiaohmAnd we have 12 months of that release cycle waiting for patches.Dec 13 11:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Desktop #GNU #Linux Thrives in Developing Nations, Less So in the West http://ur1.ca/hogzDec 13 11:05
phIRCe-localTitle: Killer Applications that make 800 pound gorillas tremble .::. Size~: 31.32 KBDec 13 11:06
*zer0c00l|Away is now known as zer0c00lDec 13 11:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Name of #GNU #Linux Still a Controversy, Unfamiliar to Some http://ur1.ca/hoh3 http://ur1.ca/hoh4Dec 13 11:07
phIRCe-localTitle: The GNU/Linux Naming Controversy Quietly Lives On | TECH SOURCE FROM BOHOL .::. Size~: 94.97 KBDec 13 11:07
phIRCe-localTitle: Not Always Right | Funny & Stupid Customer Quotes » When Open Source Meets Closed Minds .::. Size~: 53.96 KBDec 13 11:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] An Early Look at #Linux 2.6.33 http://ur1.ca/hoh6Dec 13 11:09
phIRCe-localTitle: Kernel Log: New stable kernels, 2.6.33 with DRBD and RT2800PCI - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 42.74 KBDec 13 11:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Many Developments Around the #Linux #Graphics Stack http://ur1.ca/hoh8 http://ur1.ca/hoh9 http://ur1.ca/hohaDec 13 11:10
phIRCe-localTitle: [Phoronix] New xf86-video-intel 2.10 Testing Release .::. Size~: 17.06 KBDec 13 11:11
phIRCe-localTitle: [Phoronix] What Will Happen To xf86-video-nv In 2010? .::. Size~: 21.47 KBDec 13 11:11
phIRCe-localTitle: [Phoronix] NVIDIA 190.53 Pre-Release Linux Driver .::. Size~: 16.65 KBDec 13 11:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @jamie_love: @glynmoody on the "twisted, crimped souls fighting against the blind and visual impaired" http://bit.ly/7ItOZTDec 13 11:13
phIRCe-localTitle: open...: Of Access to Copyright Materials and Blindness .::. Size~: 94.72 KBDec 13 11:13
*ChrisTX (i=lrn2iden@dslb-088-076-056-163.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #boycottnovellDec 13 11:20
DaemonFCDebian is dropping Alpha and ARMDec 13 11:25
DaemonFClooks like they want to offload some dead weightDec 13 11:25
oiaohmDropping arm would be foolish.Dec 13 11:25
oiaohmDroping alpha is valid its not even in production.Dec 13 11:25
amarsh04there's arm and armel in DebianDec 13 11:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #KDE Raises Money, #KOffice Worth $34,484,962 http://ur1.ca/hohz http://ur1.ca/hoi0 http://ur1.ca/hoi1Dec 13 11:27
phIRCe-localTitle: Krita got €4,000 Donation | We love Linux ! .::. Size~: 25 KBDec 13 11:28
oiaohmThere are quite a few companies looking at 8 core arm processors for servers due to power profile.Dec 13 11:28
phIRCe-localTitle: Fading Memories .::. Size~: 21.4 KBDec 13 11:28
phIRCe-localTitle: PiggZ Homepage .::. Size~: 14.8 KBDec 13 11:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux Distributions Comparable to #Google 's #ChromeOS http://ur1.ca/hoi5Dec 13 11:28
phIRCe-localTitle: Five Web-Centric Alternatives to Google Chrome OS | Chrome OS Geek .::. Size~: 23.26 KBDec 13 11:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Releases of GNU/Linux: GNUstep, Sabayon... http://ur1.ca/hoi9 http://ur1.ca/hoibDec 13 11:30
phIRCe-localTitle: GNUstep 2.0 OS released - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 31.31 KBDec 13 11:31
phIRCe-localTitle: Sabayon Linux 5.1 Released!  | v00d00.net .::. Size~: 31.31 KBDec 13 11:31
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Reviews of Lesser-Known #GNU #Linux Distributions #MangakaChu and #Slitaz http://ur1.ca/hoid http://ur1.ca/hoieDec 13 11:31
phIRCe-localTitle: Mangaka Chu (Gesundheit) .::. Size~: 7.73 KBDec 13 11:32
phIRCe-localTitle: Life just isnt fair « Motho ke motho ka botho .::. Size~: 49.58 KBDec 13 11:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat Makes Event, Network Appliance, Success Story http://ur1.ca/hoig http://ur1.ca/hoih http://ur1.ca/hoiiDec 13 11:33
phIRCe-localTitle:  EDL Consulting -   .::. Size~: 21.27 KBDec 13 11:34
phIRCe-localTitle: Network appliance offers up to 10 GbE ports - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 60.5 KBDec 13 11:34
phIRCe-localTitle: Seeding breakthrough thoughts .::. Size~: 44.11 KBDec 13 11:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FUDCon Reports and Another #Fedora 12 Review http://ur1.ca/hoio http://ur1.ca/hoip http://ur1.ca/hoirDec 13 11:39
phIRCe-localTitle: The Grand Fallacy » FUDCon Toronto report. .::. Size~: 56.32 KBDec 13 11:40
phIRCe-localTitle: Fedora 12  A Visually-Pleasing, Highly-Configurable Linux Distro You Might Want To Try .::. Size~: 53.87 KBDec 13 11:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Overview of #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux 10.04 Developments http://ur1.ca/hoiv http://ur1.ca/hoiw http://ur1.ca/hoixDec 13 11:41
phIRCe-localTitle: [Phoronix] Plymouth Gets Pulled Into Ubuntu 10.04 LTS .::. Size~: 17.76 KBDec 13 11:42
phIRCe-localTitle: [Phoronix] Plymouth Running On Ubuntu 10.04 LTS .::. Size~: 16.61 KBDec 13 11:42
phIRCe-localTitle: What will Ubuntu 10.04 bring to the table? .::. Size~: 54.4 KBDec 13 11:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Walkthrough of #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux 9.10 in a #VirtualMachine http://ur1.ca/hoj1Dec 13 11:42
phIRCe-localTitle: Installing Ubuntu 9.10 Walk Through – VirtualBox | Ben Kevan's Blog .::. Size~: 55.3 KBDec 13 11:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #UbuntuOne in Review, #Ubuntu #Backup Called Awesome http://twit.tv/floss99 http://shanefagan.com/2009/12/12/ubuntu-backup-awesomeness/Dec 13 11:44
phIRCe-localTitle: The TWiT Netcast Network with Leo Laporte .::. Size~: 23.67 KBDec 13 11:44
phIRCe-localTitle: Shane Fagan » Ubuntu backup awesomeness  .::. Size~: 33.18 KBDec 13 11:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More New Devices Run #Linux , Including #Handheld #Console http://ur1.ca/hoj4 http://ur1.ca/hoj6 #androidDec 13 11:45
phIRCe-localTitle: Hackable Android handheld game device uses Cortex-A8 SoC - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 67.01 KBDec 13 11:46
phIRCe-localTitle: Linux development platform targets multimedia SoCs - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 61.31 KBDec 13 11:46
*zer0c00l is now known as zer0c00l|AwayDec 13 11:49
oiaohmGreat Ubuntu just got one of the most hated windows features installing updates on shutdown.  I hope they include by pass option not the MS pain from hell.Dec 13 11:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Google #Phones Start to Surface, Run #Linux http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2009/121209-google-releases-experimental-phone-to.htmlDec 13 11:50
phIRCe-localTitle: Google releases experimental phone to employees - LinuxWorld .::. Size~: 37.22 KBDec 13 11:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Subnotebooks Have Bright Future, with #GNU #Linux http://ur1.ca/hoji http://ur1.ca/hojjDec 13 11:51
phIRCe-localTitle: Raiden's Realm: Netbooks and where the future takes them .::. Size~: 31.74 KBDec 13 11:52
phIRCe-localTitle: 10 Questions To Ask About Netbooks -- Netbooks -- InformationWeek .::. Size~: 88.85 KBDec 13 11:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Look at the #Linux -based #JooJoo #Tablet /Sub-notebooks, #Moblin http://ur1.ca/hojn http://ur1.ca/hojoDec 13 11:52
phIRCe-localTitle: JooJoo (supposed-to-be-CrunchPad) Linux-based Tablet PC Unleashed | TECH SOURCE FROM BOHOL .::. Size~: 95.88 KBDec 13 11:52
phIRCe-localTitle: The Moblin Netbook OS  Giving Chrome OS A Run For Its Money .::. Size~: 66.94 KBDec 13 11:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware Leads to Computer Affinity http://ur1.ca/hntt Troll? http://ur1.ca/hojyDec 13 11:58
phIRCe-localTitle: Free Software Fanatics - Opinions by ExtremeTech .::. Size~: 63.21 KBDec 13 11:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Poor Economy Proving Helpful to #FreeSoftware http://ur1.ca/hoka http://ur1.ca/hokbDec 13 12:00
phIRCe-localTitle: IT: Move to innovation park benefited South Tyrol's open source centre &mdash;  .::. Size~: 29.96 KBDec 13 12:00
phIRCe-localTitle: Bad economy may lead to good IPOs in open source | The Open Road - CNET News .::. Size~: 82.44 KBDec 13 12:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Review of #Sun #VirtualBox , #SFLC to Defend #Oracle Takeover http://ur1.ca/hokg http://ur1.ca/hokjDec 13 12:01
phIRCe-localTitle: Techgage - Sun VirtualBox - Free, Powerful Virtualization .::. Size~: 24.64 KBDec 13 12:01
phIRCe-localTitle: Software Freedom Law Center Chairman to Testify at Oracle/Sun Hearing - Software Freedom Law Center .::. Size~: 5.3 KBDec 13 12:02
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Firefox Builds #Extensions Store http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/11/mozilla_add_on_marketplace/Dec 13 12:02
phIRCe-localTitle: Mozilla to open - gasp! - Firefox add-on store • The Register .::. Size~: 29.18 KBDec 13 12:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Software's Impact on Hardware: 2009 Overview http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2009/12/open_source_hardware_2009_-_the_def.htmlDec 13 12:03
phIRCe-localTitle: Make: Online : Open source hardware 2009 - The definitive guide to open source hardware projects in 2009 .::. Size~: 78.78 KBDec 13 12:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Polish and US #Governments Do the Right Thing with #FreeSoftware http://ur1.ca/hoko http://ur1.ca/hokpDec 13 12:04
phIRCe-localTitle: PL: Interior ministry supports open source group's procurement project &mdash;  .::. Size~: 28 KBDec 13 12:05
phIRCe-localTitle: Does Open Source Software Put Government Security at Risk? - *nix Software News Story .::. Size~: 44.59 KBDec 13 12:05
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Internet Abuse Found in #DigitalEconomyBill , Unrest Grows http://ur1.ca/hokv http://ur1.ca/hokwDec 13 12:10
phIRCe-localTitle:    Digital Economy Bill: Lords Want To Stamp Out Piracy Chasers | TorrentFreak   .::. Size~: 63.12 KBDec 13 12:11
phIRCe-localTitle: Amendment Tabled to Delete Clause 17 from the UK Digital Economy Bill &minus; ISPreview UK .::. Size~: 16.47 KBDec 13 12:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #IntellectualMonopolies Don't Match up with Business Models http://ur1.ca/hol5 http://ur1.ca/hol6Dec 13 12:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Look at #KDE4 Distributions http://www.tuxradar.com/content/get-best-kde-linux-distro #gnu #linuxDec 13 12:14
phIRCe-localTitle: Russian Publishers Taking A More Progressive View On Book 'Piracy' | Techdirt .::. Size~: 27.72 KBDec 13 12:14
phIRCe-localTitle: Music as Commerce: Understanding a Mindset - hypebot .::. Size~: 62.99 KBDec 13 12:14
phIRCe-localTitle: Get the best KDE Linux distro | TuxRadar Linux .::. Size~: 46.11 KBDec 13 12:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux Makes #Vista7 Look Unappealing http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/2009/12/hands-on-with-windows-7-ubuntu-users.htmlDec 13 12:14
phIRCe-localTitle: Thoughts on Technology: Hands on with Windows 7 - An Ubuntu User's Perspective .::. Size~: 82.78 KBDec 13 12:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Vista All Over Again: 31% of #Vista7 Clients Have Upgrade Problems http://ur1.ca/hold http://ur1.ca/holgDec 13 12:16
phIRCe-localTitle: Windows 7 complaints rolling in - Dec. 9, 2009  .::. Size~: 69.35 KBDec 13 12:17
phIRCe-localTitle: Windows 7 Complaints Trickling In » ulyssesonline.com .::. Size~: 30.4 KBDec 13 12:17
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schestowitzhttp://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/microsoft_news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=222000693Dec 13 12:33
schestowitz"Microsoft said it would release a patch next week that will address an Explorer 8 zero-day vulnerability and several other security threats. The software maker, however, disclosed no plans to fix a bug that may have crippled as many as 50,000 Windows PCs. "Dec 13 12:33
phIRCe-localTitle: Patch Tuesday: No Black Screen Fix -- InformationWeek .::. Size~: 81.74 KBDec 13 12:33
schestowitzIs this still really a bug or just malware?Dec 13 12:33
*Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@93.102.90.3.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovellDec 13 12:36
ChrisTXthis "bug" is because the RPC service is started as LocalService instead of NetworkServiceDec 13 12:38
ChrisTXit's not a bugDec 13 12:38
ChrisTXand can be fixed by editing the service accountDec 13 12:38
schestowitzOK, thanksDec 13 12:39
schestowitzIt's over a week old (the article)Dec 13 12:39
schestowitzThe company issued a sort of apology, but that was days beforehand, so...Dec 13 12:39
schestowitzomar should see this...: http://www.ameinfo.com/mobile/news/company/218066/Dec 13 12:42
phIRCe-localTitle: AMEinfo.com Mobile : eSense pioneers the corporate transition to Windows 7 .::. Size~: 4.79 KBDec 13 12:42
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Omar87Hi all.Dec 13 12:48
oiaohmHi Omar87Dec 13 12:49
Omar87oh, hi oiaohm.Dec 13 12:49
schestowitzhttp://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windows/5-Reasons-Why-Android-Could-Kill-Windows-Mobile-132239/Dec 13 12:51
phIRCe-localTitle: Five Reasons Why Android Could Kill Windows Mobile - Windows from eWeek .::. Size~: 128.69 KBDec 13 12:51
schestowitzHey, Omar87Dec 13 12:51
schestowitzhttp://www.ameinfo.com/mobile/news/company/218066/Dec 13 12:51
phIRCe-localTitle: AMEinfo.com Mobile : eSense pioneers the corporate transition to Windows 7 .::. Size~: 4.79 KBDec 13 12:51
schestowitzYour local Microsoft 'ecosystemers'Dec 13 12:51
Omar87schestowitz: hey, Roy.Dec 13 12:51
schestowitzCheck it outDec 13 12:51
Omar87schestowitz: yeah man. Tell me about it. :-)Dec 13 12:51
schestowitzIs someone here decently familiar with leafnode?Dec 13 12:52
schestowitzThey have those in India too.... Microsoft helpers... http://www.indiaprwire.com/pressrelease/information-technology/2009120739020.htmDec 13 12:53
phIRCe-localTitle: ITC Infotech launches services for seamless migration to Windows 7 in partnership with Microsoft .::. Size~: 9.31 KBDec 13 12:53
Omar87See Roy? This is part of why I feel ashamed of being an Arab. (I'm proud of my Islam, though)Dec 13 12:53
oiaohmWindows Moblie is going to be squesed between Android and what nokia is plaining to do with QTDec 13 12:54
Omar87oiaohm: Maemo. ;-)Dec 13 12:59
Omar87oiaohm: trust me, it's amazing.Dec 13 13:01
oiaohmNop Omar87Dec 13 13:01
Omar87oiaohm: why?Dec 13 13:01
oiaohmQT will be the front end for all Nokia's OS's not just MaemoDec 13 13:02
oiaohmYou are just seeing smaller coner in MaemoDec 13 13:02
Omar87oiaohm: Yeah, that's right, I know.Dec 13 13:02
schestowitzoiaohm: zero-day LLLLLLLDec 13 13:02
schestowitzhttp://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10413678-94.htmlDec 13 13:02
phIRCe-localTitle: Microsoft needs to go big with Windows Mobile | Wireless - CNET News .::. Size~: 141.77 KBDec 13 13:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] REVIEW – xPUD 0.9.2 http://tinyurl.com/ybcve85 #linux #foss #gnu #xpudDec 13 13:02
phIRCe-localTitle: REVIEW  xPUD 0.9.2 «  OPEN BYTES  cave quid dicis, quando, et cui. .::. Size~: 36.53 KBDec 13 13:02
schestowitzSuggests Microsoft should embrace Android. Heh.Dec 13 13:03
oiaohmMS replacement to Windows Mobile is dead.  ie spot the .net OS.Dec 13 13:03
oiaohmProblem for MS if nokia wins the smart phone batter with QT MS is in real trouble.Dec 13 13:07
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oiaohmbatter/battleDec 13 13:07
schestowitzhttp://technologizer.com/2009/12/11/office-2003-rights-management-bug-locks-up-files/Dec 13 13:07
schestowitzTypical.Dec 13 13:08
schestowitzhttp://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/12/microsoft_office_03_bug_preventing_access_to_protected_docs.htmlDec 13 13:08
phIRCe-localTitle: Microsoft Office '03 bug prevents access to protected documents .::. Size~: 45.7 KBDec 13 13:08
ChrisTXwith ws2003 soDec 13 13:09
ChrisTXws2008 and ws2008r2 won't have that issueDec 13 13:10
oiaohmLOLDec 13 13:10
oiaohmThat bug happens 2003 to 2003 MS Office.Dec 13 13:10
*zer0c00l` (n=user@117.199.134.83) has joined #boycottnovellDec 13 13:10
oiaohmI only reported it to MS in 2004Dec 13 13:11
oiaohmThere is a second as wellDec 13 13:11
*zer0c00l has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))Dec 13 13:12
oiaohmFiles are touchy to even the most minor damage rendering the data not accessable.Dec 13 13:12
schestowitzWhat a silly headline from Paula Rooney : http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=5428Dec 13 13:13
schestowitzIt's like she's trying to compare Microsoft to Red Hat. Meh.Dec 13 13:13
schestowitz*LOL* .. "White House Office of Management and Budget (OBM)"Dec 13 13:16
schestowitzCoincidence in this acronym or what?Dec 13 13:16
oiaohmSPICE from redhat is attackive tech.  Dec 13 13:17
*Omar87 has quit (Remote closed the connection)Dec 13 13:17
oiaohmHopefully vmware and redhat can play nice with it.Dec 13 13:17
schestowitzIntrusions...? http://seattle.blockshopper.com/news/story/700047810-Microsoft_Europe_exec_sells_Sammamish_5BDDec 13 13:24
phIRCe-localTitle: Microsoft Europe exec sells Sammamish 5BD | BlockShopper Seattle .::. Size~: 40.83 KBDec 13 13:24
schestowitzoiaohm: attractive or attacking?Dec 13 13:24
schestowitzAnother one: http://seattle.blockshopper.com/news/story/700046945-Microsoft_corporate_exec_unloads_4BD_in_KirklandDec 13 13:25
phIRCe-localTitle: Microsoft corporate exec unloads 4BD in Kirkland | BlockShopper Seattle .::. Size~: 40.17 KBDec 13 13:25
schestowitzThis is weird.. they even show people's houses...Dec 13 13:25
schestowitzPrivacy comes to mindDec 13 13:25
schestowitzAgain: http://seattle.blockshopper.com/news/story/700048980-Microsoft_product_manager_picks_3BD_in_University_DistrictDec 13 13:28
phIRCe-localTitle: Microsoft product manager picks 3BD in University District | BlockShopper Seattle .::. Size~: 39.94 KBDec 13 13:28
cubezzzwho is Philipe Kahn?Dec 13 13:29
cubezzzsorry, Philippe I should sayDec 13 13:30
cubezzzah, now I see, Borland guyDec 13 13:30
oiaohmattractive schestowitzDec 13 13:32
amarsh04I use leafnode but I wouldn't claim to be 'decently familiar' with itDec 13 13:33
schestowitzhttp://www.crunchgear.com/2009/12/09/microsoft-germany-sprechen-nicht-von-apple/Dec 13 13:34
phIRCe-localTitle:   Microsoft Germany: Sprechen nicht von Apple! (updated)  .::. Size~: 37.01 KBDec 13 13:34
schestowitzoiaohm: it threw SPICE right in Microsoft's eyes. Ouch!Dec 13 13:35
cubezzzRochester free-net is one of the few US free-nets I can find that's still operatingDec 13 13:47
cubezzzThere are very few FreeNets still online. Dec 13 13:50
schestowitzhttp://www.izgadget.com/2009/12/10/microsoft-and-google-sued-links-to-file-sharing-site/Dec 13 13:51
phIRCe-localTitle: Microsoft And Google Sued  Links To File-Sharing Site | izGadget .::. Size~: 18.92 KBDec 13 13:51
schestowitzcubezzz: what are these for? newsgroups?Dec 13 13:51
cubezzzinternet accessDec 13 13:51
*Omar87 (n=quassel@94.249.85.124) has joined #boycottnovellDec 13 13:51
cubezzzvia non-profit companiesDec 13 13:51
cubezzzhttp://www.ispbargains.com/free-isp.htmlDec 13 13:52
phIRCe-localTitle: Free ISP Update - Free Dial-Up Internet Access in the U.S. .::. Size~: 35.26 KBDec 13 13:52
cubezzzthat list is the most currentDec 13 13:52
cubezzzyou can see the death list is rather bigDec 13 13:53
cubezzzwe are fortunate in Canada thoughDec 13 13:54
cubezzzrelatively speaking, as we have Toronto Freenet and NCFDec 13 13:55
cubezzzNCF you can buy broadband if you have a bell phone anywhere in Ontario or QuebecDec 13 13:55
cubezzznot sure if there is a US equivalent Dec 13 14:00
trmancohttp://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/12/help-saving-mysql.htmlDec 13 14:02
phIRCe-localTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBDec 13 14:02
*Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@93.102.36.218.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovellDec 13 14:03
oiaohmhttp://schreuders.org/FBAC-LSM  Interesting new security module idea.Dec 13 14:03
phIRCe-localTitle: Z. Cliffe Schreuders .::. Size~: 0.76 KBDec 13 14:03
MinceRindeedDec 13 14:04
*_goblin has quit ("Ex-Chat")Dec 13 14:06
schestowitzAnd Microsoft pretends that Google does not honour privacy.. http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/187507.aspDec 13 14:17
phIRCe-localTitle: EntityCube project gathers Web info on everyone .::. Size~: 64.55 KBDec 13 14:17
MinceRno, what they pretend is that they doDec 13 14:19
MinceRgoogle doesn't honor privacy but neither does m$Dec 13 14:19
trmancohas anybody sent an email to the EC? for mysql?Dec 13 14:25
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Started organizing my life with !emacs !org-mode .Dec 13 14:26
trmancohttp://kloeri.livejournal.com/12231.htmlDec 13 14:28
phIRCe-localTitle: kloeri: Changes in Microsoft Windows EULA .::. Size~: 38.02 KBDec 13 14:28
trmancowowDec 13 14:28
trmancothis is old :|Dec 13 14:28
trmancoI'm a bit outdated :SDec 13 14:28
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5jMJ1j2vnIPOtzpfLLCK4ul7pUzFQDec 13 14:29
phIRCe-localTitle: The Press Association: Game shares fall on poor sales .::. Size~: 7.16 KBDec 13 14:29
schestowitztrmanco: don'tDec 13 14:30
schestowitzThe Microsofters want itDec 13 14:30
trmancodon't what?Dec 13 14:30
schestowitzWhich usually implies it's good for MicrosoftDec 13 14:30
schestowitzDon't bother mailing the EUDec 13 14:30
trmancowhy?Dec 13 14:30
*Eruaran (n=quassel@CPE-121-214-36-2.lnse4.win.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovellDec 13 14:30
schestowitzMonty is now close to MicrosoftDec 13 14:30
schestowitzI don't trust himDec 13 14:30
trmancofound thisDec 13 14:32
trmancohttp://planet.mysql.com/entry/?id=22607Dec 13 14:32
phIRCe-localTitle: Planet MySQL  - Archives - Come on Monty .::. Size~: 18.45 KBDec 13 14:32
oiaohmYep is basically impossiable with windows 7 to get a refund Dec 13 14:36
cubezzzhmmphDec 13 14:37
cubezzzwhich is why I have said _many_ times not to pay the Microsoft Tax in the first placeDec 13 14:37
MinceRwhich is usually impossibleDec 13 14:39
cubezzzno, that's not trueDec 13 14:39
cubezzzwell, sorryDec 13 14:39
cubezzzit's not always trueDec 13 14:39
cubezzzif you are determined enough you can buy a machine without windowsDec 13 14:40
trmancoI usually build my own machineDec 13 14:40
cubezzzyes, the current situation is poorDec 13 14:40
schestowitzhttp://www.fiercewireless.com/story/lawsuit-charges-sprint-palm-negligence-over-data-loss/2009-12-08Dec 13 14:40
phIRCe-localTitle: Lawsuit charges Sprint, Palm with negligence over data loss - FierceWireless .::. Size~: 43.26 KBDec 13 14:40
trmancoworks better and fasterDec 13 14:40
EruaranDell, Zareason, System76Dec 13 14:40
trmancoI prefer to buy all the needed hardware and putting it together myselfDec 13 14:41
cubezzzif it was $5 I still wouldn't pay the Microsoft TaxDec 13 14:41
oiaohmDell is useless if you want systems without windows here in Australia  EruaranDec 13 14:41
MinceRZareason and System76 don't sell everywhereDec 13 14:41
trmancoI would even pay if it it would cost 1¢Dec 13 14:41
MinceRand Dell sells shitpiles, not computersDec 13 14:41
trmancofor*Dec 13 14:41
cubezzzwoulnd't or would? :)Dec 13 14:42
trmancoI wouldn'tDec 13 14:42
trmanco:SDec 13 14:42
Eruaranits still possible to order from Zareason or System76Dec 13 14:42
cubezzzebay thenDec 13 14:42
cubezzzat least you have choicesDec 13 14:42
EruaranNew smartbooks are comingDec 13 14:43
EruaranThey wont run WindowsDec 13 14:43
MinceRand what about warranty?Dec 13 14:43
MinceRpay my ass off to ship the computer back if there's any issue?Dec 13 14:43
MinceRand wait a few weeks more?Dec 13 14:43
MinceRlet's hope it isn't dell because they could sit on the broken machine for a monthDec 13 14:44
EruaranI'm thinking primarily of notebooks, which is a greater part of the market nowDec 13 14:44
MinceRs/dell/like dell/Dec 13 14:44
MinceRnotebooks need warranty tooDec 13 14:44
cubezzzbuy high-end stuff MinceRDec 13 14:44
EruaranDell recently lied to one of our customersDec 13 14:44
cubezzzthe probability of failure would be very lowDec 13 14:44
MinceRwell, high-end stuff isn't sold without winblows taxDec 13 14:44
MinceRsystem76 only ships to usa and canadaDec 13 14:45
cubezzzwhich country are you in?Dec 13 14:46
MinceRabsurdistan, also known as hungaryDec 13 14:46
EruaranThe only way consumers will get this practice to stop is by demanding different products (ie Smartbooks) or by refusing to buy products that force you to pay the Microsoft taxDec 13 14:46
MinceRno, the only way consumers will get this practice to stop is by making the m$ tax illegalDec 13 14:46
MinceRor by waging war on m$Dec 13 14:46
cubezzzMinceR, can you at least get parts and assemble a desktop?Dec 13 14:46
MinceRassembling a desktop will help me very little towards having a laptopDec 13 14:47
EruaranThen send your complaint to the ACCC or VCAT etcDec 13 14:47
MinceRand then it will be ignoredDec 13 14:47
MinceRi don't have millions of dollars for lobbying (or for anything else)Dec 13 14:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Rocknerd: Have yourself a merry little Christmas. vhttp://rocknerd.co.uk/2009/12/13/have-yourself-a-merry-little-christmas/Dec 13 14:47
phIRCe-localTitle: Rocknerd  » Blog Archive   » Have yourself a merry little Christmas. .::. Size~: 5.96 KBDec 13 14:47
EruaranRefer to first commentDec 13 14:47
oiaohmWhat next windows bundled with motherboards so we cannot get away from it for anything.Dec 13 14:48
EruaranI'm putting together a Linux only desktop systemDec 13 14:48
EruaranTo be sold to customersDec 13 14:48
EruaranRequests for a Windows version will be deniedDec 13 14:48
cubezzzno, things aren't _that_ bad MinceR :)Dec 13 14:49
cubezzzerDec 13 14:49
cubezzzoiaohmDec 13 14:49
Eruaranhavent decided on the config yet, but it will be a single model, complete with a Coreboot BIOSDec 13 14:49
cubezzzzareason sells to Hungary yes?Dec 13 14:49
EruaranIt's going to be a "respects your rights and freedom" systemDec 13 14:50
MinceRzareason doesDec 13 14:50
EruaranNo Windows allowedDec 13 14:50
oiaohmcubezzz: The zero refund policy is basically the step in that direction.Dec 13 14:50
EruaranIf a customer wants a Windows system I will direct them to other systems in our rangeDec 13 14:50
cubezzzhow can they say zero refund?Dec 13 14:50
oiaohmThey already have cubezzzDec 13 14:50
oiaohmhttp://kloeri.livejournal.com/12231.html  Read it carefully.  cubezzzDec 13 14:51
phIRCe-localTitle: kloeri: Changes in Microsoft Windows EULA .::. Size~: 38.02 KBDec 13 14:51
cubezzzI think Tyan even ships motherboards with linux biosDec 13 14:51
cubezzzokDec 13 14:51
oiaohmYou want to return windows you must comply with makers return policy.Dec 13 14:51
oiaohmSo lets say is 60 dollars refund for windows and I charge a 120 handling charge.  That is a nice -60 dollar refund  cubezzzDec 13 14:51
cubezzzhuhDec 13 14:52
oiaohmAnd that can be nicely written into the return policy.Dec 13 14:52
oiaohmInstead, contact the manufacturer or installer to determine its return policy  << That line is pure evil cubezzzDec 13 14:52
oiaohm You must comply with that policy, which might limit your rights or require you to return the entire system on which the software is installed.  << This new line is a kickerDec 13 14:54
cubezzzok, I have a suggestionDec 13 14:54
cubezzzI've mentioned this before...Dec 13 14:54
cubezzzI buy used panasonic toughbooks from ebayDec 13 14:54
cubezzzthey are excellent, and work well with linuxDec 13 14:54
cubezzzI buy used then remove the windows stickers, format and install LinuxDec 13 14:55
oiaohmStill supply is limited and someone would have still paid the MS tax.Dec 13 14:55
EruaranWhat is a good name for a [insert FOSS operating system here] only systemDec 13 14:55
oiaohmYou have just avoided paying it your self cubezzzDec 13 14:55
cubezzzAcer will sell a Linux laptopDec 13 14:56
cubezzzI know this for sureDec 13 14:56
EruaranI was thinking of putting Arch on it... I've gone off UbuntuDec 13 14:56
cubezzztoughbook CF-48 worked, 3d acceleration tooDec 13 14:56
cubezzzprobably the best I've ever triedDec 13 14:57
cubezzzwell, I still like Fedora for OSDec 13 14:57
EruaranI was thinking of defaulting to Arch, but if someone wants Fedora, I'd do thatDec 13 14:59
cubezzzyour idea is goodDec 13 14:59
EruaranI don't think what Dell have done with their website is bad with regard to Ubuntu. You don't want the wrong people buying an Ubuntu system. Its nothing but hassle.Dec 13 15:01
EruaranPeople can be really dumb.Dec 13 15:03
cubezzzI have no problem buying used laptopsDec 13 15:04
cubezzzas long as I can get parts, which is easy with toughbooksDec 13 15:04
MinceRyou don't want anyone buying a dell system. it's nothing but hassle.Dec 13 15:05
cubezzzthe police and fire departments use toughbooks so the world is swimming in partsDec 13 15:05
EruaranI know Dec 13 15:05
EruaranWe recently had a customer who wanted us to fix their Dell notebookDec 13 15:05
EruaranIt was nothing but hassleDec 13 15:05
MinceRdell must think the same about fixing their laptopsDec 13 15:06
EruaranThey really need a new notebook but they don't want to pay for itDec 13 15:06
amarsh04our electricity utility uses toughbooks alsoDec 13 15:06
Eruaranthey got insurnanceDec 13 15:06
Eruaran*insuranceDec 13 15:06
EruaranSo, we get this notebook, and Dell wont give us the time of day on getting a new motherboard for it.Dec 13 15:07
EruaranSo, our senior notebook tech fixes the motherboard as best he can.Dec 13 15:07
EruaranThey're still not happy, but we can't do anything more.Dec 13 15:07
cubezzzwhat's wrong with it?Dec 13 15:08
EruaranHe calls Dell again, and miraculously, they do an about face and offer a motherboard for free... WTF ?Dec 13 15:08
oiaohmNormal EruaranDec 13 15:08
EruaranThe customer, who have well and truly gotten on my nerves by now, calls DellDec 13 15:08
EruaranDell lies to the customer, telling them that we never called them in the first placeDec 13 15:08
EruaranWe are furiousDec 13 15:09
oiaohmPerfectly normal.Dec 13 15:09
MinceRtime to stop supporting dell.Dec 13 15:09
EruaranI call Dell in front of the customerDec 13 15:09
Eruaranand have their call on loudspeakerDec 13 15:09
Eruaranwe don't support Dell, we fix notebooks in generalDec 13 15:09
oiaohmI inform dell I am recording there call and will be playing there answers to customers.Dec 13 15:09
MinceR"we fix notebooks in general, except dell"Dec 13 15:09
MinceR:>Dec 13 15:09
cubezzzI've fixed Dell laptops, but it was an easy fixDec 13 15:10
oiaohmSupprising how much more willing they are to play ball in that case.Dec 13 15:10
cubezzzkeyboard replacementDec 13 15:10
EruaranDell admits there has been some "confusion", so now the customer knows Dell are dodgy asDec 13 15:10
MinceRwell, i know an easy fixDec 13 15:10
MinceRreplace it with a thinkpadDec 13 15:10
MinceR;)Dec 13 15:10
MinceRi didn't say it was cheap thoughDec 13 15:10
oiaohmI have learnt over my years recording gear pays for itself EruaranDec 13 15:10
cubezzzsure, I'll get Acer or Panasonic instead and avoid DellDec 13 15:10
Eruaranoiaohm: yesDec 13 15:10
oiaohmI have had some Acer personal be pricks as well.Dec 13 15:11
cubezzzactually I have this one Dell that's 1996 era and it still worksDec 13 15:11
EruaranDell were ok in 96Dec 13 15:11
MinceRi have a dell that's a little over 2 years old and has been in service 3 timesDec 13 15:11
MinceRand they still refused to fix the keyboard under warranty, so i hacked that myselfDec 13 15:11
cubezzzok, I get it :)Dec 13 15:12
cubezzzno DellsDec 13 15:12
cubezzzwhich is kind of a pityDec 13 15:12
oiaohmI have supprisingly few hassles with dells.Dec 13 15:12
EruaranMichael Dell originally rebadged IBM PC's as DellDec 13 15:12
oiaohmMind you that is mostly because they know I am recording.Dec 13 15:12
MinceR:)Dec 13 15:12
oiaohmKeyboards screens the lot I have had replaced fairly cheep.Dec 13 15:13
oiaohmI also quite commonly get complete unit replacement offers as well.Dec 13 15:13
oiaohmSimple fact how do you bluff someone with recordings.Dec 13 15:14
MinceRi'd be more insterested in why do they want to bluff in the first placeDec 13 15:14
MinceRif dell wasn't a fraud, they wouldn't have toDec 13 15:14
*Tallken has quit ("Leaving")Dec 13 15:15
oiaohmIts staff there get extra cash for resolving without needing replacement parts MinceRDec 13 15:15
MinceRin other words, scamming is in their policyDec 13 15:16
oiaohmNot exactly.  its close but its not.Dec 13 15:16
MinceRof course it doesn't help that the stuff they produce is crap in the first placeDec 13 15:16
oiaohmIf you have recordings staff caught doing it get punished MinceRDec 13 15:17
MinceRi prefer to do business with companies that don't need recordings to keep them in line.Dec 13 15:17
oiaohmRecording system is need at times when dealing with all companies.Dec 13 15:19
EruaranOur experience with Asus has always been goodDec 13 15:20
oiaohmBad operators are bad operators.  Just dell seams to collect them.Dec 13 15:20
EruaranAsus and BenQ, always go out of their way to help if we call themDec 13 15:20
oiaohmBenQ I have had one suspect operator. But next call got a good operator.Dec 13 15:21
oiaohmI would give Asus and BenQ high marks for keeping there call centers in order.Dec 13 15:21
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Created my first TODO list with emacs org-mode [screenshot] http://www.twitpic.com/tcunc . i like org-mode :-)Dec 13 15:21
phIRCe-localTitle: Twitpic - Share photos on Twitter .::. Size~: 7.31 KBDec 13 15:21
oiaohmRecording gear is not that expensive.Dec 13 15:22
EruaranI called HP/Compaq once and was told by an operator that if I installed Linux, "you'll break it" and that installing any operating system but Windows "voids the warranty".Dec 13 15:23
MinceRlolDec 13 15:23
cubezzzHP used to have a Unix divisonDec 13 15:23
cubezzzyou need to talk to an old-timerDec 13 15:23
EruaranSecond call got a better operatorDec 13 15:23
ChrisTXohja HP doesnt have HP-UX anymoreDec 13 15:24
ChrisTXI forgotDec 13 15:24
EruaranDon't they compete with IBM in Linux mainfraims ?Dec 13 15:25
*zer0c00l` is now known as zer0c00l|AwayDec 13 15:25
ChrisTXuhm IBM also got IBM AIX, so it's not like IBM was selling only linux lolDec 13 15:25
EruaranI knowDec 13 15:26
ChrisTXand HP-UX and AIX are competitors, yesDec 13 15:26
EruaranBut how many people actually use AIXDec 13 15:26
ChrisTXuhm quite a lot actuallyDec 13 15:26
EruarankDec 13 15:27
ChrisTXelse they wouldn't do AIXDec 13 15:27
Eruarantheir latext Z doesn't come with AIXDec 13 15:27
EruaranlatestDec 13 15:27
ChrisTXit's just that Linux is good to keep costs lowDec 13 15:27
*Diablo-D3 (n=diablo@64.223.238.130) has joined #boycottnovellDec 13 15:27
ChrisTXso what?Dec 13 15:27
Eruaranjust sayingDec 13 15:28
ChrisTXthink: if AIX wouldn't sell, IBM wasn't doing itDec 13 15:28
ChrisTX*wasn't sellingDec 13 15:28
ChrisTXahDec 13 15:28
ChrisTXdamnitDec 13 15:28
cubezzzanother closed source OSDec 13 15:28
ChrisTXso?Dec 13 15:28
Eruaran90% of mainfraims run LinuxDec 13 15:28
cubezzzI think my remark is self-evidentDec 13 15:28
oiaohmChrisTX: HP is openvms and Linux these days.Dec 13 15:29
Eruaranor supercomputers ratherDec 13 15:29
MinceRexcept for the parts that are winblowsDec 13 15:29
MinceRand printers that suck at pulling in paperDec 13 15:29
ChrisTXlol what does mainframes got to do with supercomputersDec 13 15:29
ChrisTXsorry if I don't see the relevanceDec 13 15:29
EruarannevermindDec 13 15:29
oiaohmMainframes are normally modules in mondern day supers ChrisTXDec 13 15:30
EruaranracksDec 13 15:30
oiaohmYes rack mounted modulesDec 13 15:31
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection)Dec 13 15:31
schestowitzhttp://www.suntimes.com/technology/1928861,CST-NWS-sidekick09.articleDec 13 15:32
phIRCe-localTitle:  'Sidekick' owners sue Microsoft over cell data wipeout    :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Technology .::. Size~: 40.64 KBDec 13 15:32
Omar87Hi all.Dec 13 15:33
ChrisTX <oiaohm> Mainframes are normally modules in mondern day supers ChrisTX <- sure everyone builds a supercomputer out of $500k mainframesDec 13 15:34
ChrisTXmakes senseDec 13 15:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Pics from Nov 2009 Vagabonds up at last! http://reddragdiva.co.uk/thumbnails.php?album=82Dec 13 15:41
phIRCe-localTitle: reddragdiva.co.uk - Vagabonds, Sat 28 Nov 2009 .::. Size~: 32.38 KBDec 13 15:41
*Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@93.102.36.218.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovellDec 13 15:50
schestowitzEruaran: well, almost 90% (or more) of mainframes run IBMDec 13 15:51
*_nbnds (n=_nbnds@port-92-195-16-9.dynamic.qsc.de) has joined #boycottnovellDec 13 15:52
_nbndsdo you boycott only novell or opensuse as well?Dec 13 15:56
MinceRi thought opensuse was novell :>Dec 13 16:01
MinceRi can't speak for the others but i avoid *suse anywayDec 13 16:01
cubezzzit is free and openDec 13 16:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Sunday afternoon, kids playing Wii sports, wifey out shopping, me with my laptop. 21st century family. #fbDec 13 16:05
cubezzzI've never tried it thoughDec 13 16:06
MinceRit's in novell control, afaik Dec 13 16:06
MinceRand i've tried it and found it to suckDec 13 16:06
cubezzzso what do you use?Dec 13 16:06
_nbndsdo you also boycott redhat?Dec 13 16:06
MinceRi use kubuntuDec 13 16:07
MinceR_nbnds: afaik noDec 13 16:07
schestowitzyou must enable Javascript to download Chrome. Lame.Dec 13 16:07
MinceRlolDec 13 16:07
schestowitz\o/Dec 13 16:08
schestowitzhttp://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202436144682&Judge_in_Mark_Cuban_Case_Orders__Discovery_Against_SECDec 13 16:09
phIRCe-localTitle: Law.com - Judge in Mark Cuban Case Orders  Discovery Against SEC .::. Size~: 27.9 KBDec 13 16:09
_nbndswhat are you aiming at by boycotting novell? Dec 13 16:11
MinceRto protect the FLOSS community from attacks by m$ and novellDec 13 16:13
MinceRone of which is the sw patent FUD/protection racket campaign m$ is running and novell (among others) is supportingDec 13 16:14
ChrisTXoh lolDec 13 16:14
ChrisTXright MS got nothing better to do than thatDec 13 16:14
ChrisTXI forgotDec 13 16:14
MinceRwell, they're getting desperateDec 13 16:14
ChrisTXbecause?Dec 13 16:14
MinceRbecause they're losing the monopolies they've built their entire "business" onDec 13 16:15
ChrisTXlike? Windows is still @ 92-93% market share for desktopsDec 13 16:15
MinceRnot having a hegemony of winblows on desktop computers means not being able to force anything they want on the usersDec 13 16:15
ChrisTXlolDec 13 16:15
MinceRyes, and it's decreasingDec 13 16:15
ChrisTXuhm actually not, plus if at all, 1% to macDec 13 16:16
ChrisTXbut mac is decreasing now againDec 13 16:16
ChrisTXand secondly how does MS forces users to do anything?Dec 13 16:16
ChrisTXsorry if I don't see the relationDec 13 16:16
cubezzzby controlling the OEMs Dec 13 16:16
_nbndsnovell supports anti-FLOSS attacks ? being one of the biggest produsers of opensource OS ?Dec 13 16:16
MinceRwhat cubezzz said.Dec 13 16:16
ChrisTXah yesDec 13 16:16
MinceR_nbnds: the m$-novell deal gives credit to m$'s unsupported, unproven accusations that linux is infringing on their patentsDec 13 16:17
ChrisTXand how are OEMs <-?-> Users  relatedDec 13 16:17
MinceRChrisTX: users buy computers from OEMsDec 13 16:17
MinceRthey can only get laptops from them, preassembledDec 13 16:17
ChrisTXyeah, and MS keeps market share by oppressing OEMs ?Dec 13 16:17
_nbndsi got my laptop with freedos:) Dec 13 16:17
MinceRyes, by forcing them into deals that mean that OEMs may only sell PCs with windowsDec 13 16:17
ChrisTXoh lawlDec 13 16:18
_nbndsfreedos, presinstalled! :)Dec 13 16:18
MinceRChrisTX: so whose agenda are you supportingDec 13 16:18
MinceR?Dec 13 16:18
ChrisTXyou are tho aware that users would go nuts if you'd sold them PCs with Linux preinstalled, right?Dec 13 16:18
ChrisTXwhat agenda?Dec 13 16:18
MinceRactually many users wouldn't go nutsDec 13 16:18
MinceRand indeed, many users don'tDec 13 16:18
ChrisTXoh lol boyDec 13 16:19
MinceRiirc most of netbooks are sold with linux nowadaysDec 13 16:19
ChrisTXa) noDec 13 16:19
ChrisTXb) netbooks != computers in that meanDec 13 16:19
_nbndsi dont think that users care miuch about what they are using and why, they want simplicity and users hate to learnDec 13 16:19
MinceRChrisTX: now you're starting to sound like a 12 years old m$ fanboyDec 13 16:19
ChrisTXlmaoDec 13 16:19
ChrisTXMinceR, got also anything beside flames for me?Dec 13 16:19
ChrisTXIm just trying to talk to your normallyDec 13 16:20
_nbndsso if you give one a linux-box he'll use itDec 13 16:20
MinceRChrisTX: got anything besides disparaging comments for me?Dec 13 16:20
MinceRChrisTX: you're failing hard at talking normallyDec 13 16:20
ChrisTXuhm okDec 13 16:20
MinceRChrisTX: i've presented my arguments and you only have stuff like "oh lol boy"Dec 13 16:20
MinceRthis discussion isn't going anywhere.Dec 13 16:20
ChrisTXyeah, the thing is, if you sell a normal user a computer with linux installedDec 13 16:20
ChrisTXthey'll ask you at some pointDec 13 16:20
ChrisTXhow do games work on it?Dec 13 16:21
ChrisTXand so onDec 13 16:21
MinceRand then i'll show them some gamesDec 13 16:21
cubezzzLGP...Dec 13 16:21
*Eruaran has quit (Client Quit)Dec 13 16:21
ChrisTXplus some OEMs give Linux as optionDec 13 16:21
MinceRNexuiz, for example :)Dec 13 16:21
MinceRvery few OEMs doDec 13 16:21
ChrisTXDell doesDec 13 16:21
cubezzzChrisTX, which ones?Dec 13 16:21
cubezzzyes, and AcerDec 13 16:21
MinceRand even most of those only sporadically and for a tiny fragment of their computersDec 13 16:21
ChrisTXhttp://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=anavmlDec 13 16:21
cubezzzbut I can't go to the store and buy one in my countryDec 13 16:21
MinceRwell, dell only ever offers linux on a very limited set of modelsDec 13 16:21
MinceRand they hide it wellDec 13 16:22
MinceRand that offer doesn't even work in most countriesDec 13 16:22
*Eruaran (n=quassel@CPE-121-214-36-2.lnse4.win.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovellDec 13 16:22
ChrisTXyeah because think economically: do you think 1% of all users make a good profit for a linux preinstallationDec 13 16:22
ChrisTXoh pleaseDec 13 16:22
MinceR(not that i'd want to buy dell ever again)Dec 13 16:22
ChrisTXplus, what kind of proof do you have that MS *forces* OEMs somewhat?Dec 13 16:22
cubezzzAllchin's remarks?Dec 13 16:23
MinceRyou really should check out the BN website :)Dec 13 16:23
MinceRi'm pretty sure most of the answers to your questions can be found thereDec 13 16:23
MinceRbut i'll dig up some of my bookmarksDec 13 16:23
_nbndsproducers develop products only if there is so much demand for it that it would at least cover the costs of developing, market share of linux comuters is too low to consider it as a potential marketDec 13 16:23
ChrisTX_nbnds +1Dec 13 16:23
MinceRnetbook makers are already considering itDec 13 16:23
cubezzzthat's a red herring, I can't buy a blank computer Dec 13 16:23
MinceRsmartbook makers even more soDec 13 16:24
ChrisTXMinceR, finally understand that netbooks are there to surf the internetDec 13 16:24
MinceRChrisTX: finally understand that they aren'tDec 13 16:24
ChrisTXand yet 4 out of 5 netbooks which had Linux installed have XP nowDec 13 16:24
MinceRmy netbook can certainly do a lot more than just "surf the internet"Dec 13 16:24
*shreddar (i=62f0385c@gateway/web/freenode/x-vdovlmqroncfdzrt) has joined #boycottnovellDec 13 16:24
shreddarAny more news on the Gnu Gnome split?Dec 13 16:24
schestowitzzoobab: http://www.patentlyo.com/patent/2009/12/the-matrix-for-first-inventor-to-file-an-experimental-investigation-into-proposed-changes-in-us-patent-law.htmlDec 13 16:24
phIRCe-localTitle: Patent Law Blog (Patently-O): The "Matrix" for First-Inventor-To-File: An Experimental Investigation into Proposed Changes in US Patent Law .::. Size~: 138.91 KBDec 13 16:24
ChrisTXand btw you're saying OEMs are forced to use Windows and yet can install Linux on netbooks?Dec 13 16:25
ChrisTXcontradiction hard?Dec 13 16:25
cubezzzno, they do it only on low-end machines, or not at allDec 13 16:25
MinceRfew OEMs get to install Linux on netbooksDec 13 16:25
ChrisTXso waitDec 13 16:25
schestowitzChrisTX is parroting Microsoft FUD about market shareDec 13 16:26
ChrisTXon the one hand OEMs use Linux for netbooks and it dominates there and on the other they don't install linux ?Dec 13 16:26
schestowitzNot that I'm surprised by him doing thisDec 13 16:26
cubezzzas a customer, I want a choice not to buy windowsDec 13 16:26
ChrisTXschestowitz, not exactly, I don't have got anything to do with MicrosoftDec 13 16:26
ChrisTXI just took the ciphers from wikipediaDec 13 16:26
shreddarChrisTX NDA's, Legacy Support, Licensing fees are tools that MS uses to control OEMsDec 13 16:26
schestowitzI can't remember for sure if he was banned beforeDec 13 16:26
ChrisTXschestowitz, what did I do now? I just tried understand your points?Dec 13 16:27
ChrisTXand you accuse me to spread FUDDec 13 16:27
ChrisTXplease, 1% is what Wikipedia saysDec 13 16:27
ChrisTXand Linux on the netbook market got 38% or soDec 13 16:27
ChrisTXso that argument that only few OEMs offer Linux netbooksDec 13 16:28
cubezzz1% of what?Dec 13 16:28
ChrisTXis very weakDec 13 16:28
ChrisTXcubezzz, desktop osesDec 13 16:28
ChrisTXwait actuallyDec 13 16:28
ChrisTXlemme link youDec 13 16:28
cubezzzthere's no way to measure it accuratelyDec 13 16:28
ChrisTXhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systemsDec 13 16:28
phIRCe-localTitle: Usage share of operating systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 89.32 KBDec 13 16:28
ChrisTXthereDec 13 16:28
ChrisTXcubezzz, but OEMs work based on demandsDec 13 16:29
schestowitzWikipedia's links are.......?Dec 13 16:29
MinceRhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/Dec 13 16:29
phIRCe-localTitle: Leaked: Microsoft Pays Companies to Recommend Windows | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 218.47 KBDec 13 16:29
schestowitzWikipedia does does not measure stuffDec 13 16:29
ChrisTXschestowitz, median of serveral statisticsDec 13 16:29
cubezzzok, fine, sell me a blank computer thenDec 13 16:29
cubezzzeven less work for the OEMDec 13 16:29
schestowitzAnd sorry, I misremembered, you were not the troll that was banned. http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/irc-log-07062009.htmlDec 13 16:29
phIRCe-localTitle: IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 7th, 2009 .::. Size~: 810.58 KBDec 13 16:29
_nbndsyes it realy can be looked upon like microsoft is "bying" the demand for their software, i agreeDec 13 16:29
schestowitzWhat statistics? Which countries?Dec 13 16:30
ChrisTXcommon stat countersDec 13 16:30
MinceRhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/28/derail-dell-gnu-linux/Dec 13 16:30
ChrisTXinfo is given thereDec 13 16:30
phIRCe-localTitle: Antitrust: How Microsoft Schemed to Derail Dell GNU/Linux | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 144.32 KBDec 13 16:30
_nbndswhat are possible solutions to overcome microsoft dominance?Dec 13 16:31
schestowitzhttp://legalblogwatch.typepad.com/legal_blog_watch/2009/12/file-sharing-lawyer-says-judge-screwed-up.htmlDec 13 16:31
phIRCe-localTitle: Legal Blog Watch .::. Size~: 47.12 KBDec 13 16:31
schestowitz_nbnds: it's already being overcomeDec 13 16:31
schestowitzE.g. in netbooksDec 13 16:31
MinceRthere's a very slow solution at work nowDec 13 16:31
schestowitzWindows revenue is down 40%Dec 13 16:31
cubezzzjust let blank computers to the people who know which OS they wantDec 13 16:32
shreddarChrisTX vender lock-in and alliances with OEMs gives MS monopoly power.Dec 13 16:32
cubezzzjust sellDec 13 16:32
MinceRm$'s loss of market share is accelerating itself via positive feedbackDec 13 16:32
schestowitzChrisTX: these measures are US-centricDec 13 16:32
schestowitzI have no doubt Linux has low share in the US (no-one knows for sure)Dec 13 16:32
MinceRalso, it seems that certain OEMs try to force lower licensing prices out of m$ by occasionally selling Linux PCsDec 13 16:32
schestowitzPCs in Brazil and Venezuela hardly even touch any English-speaking sitesDec 13 16:33
MinceRm$ is losing leverage with market shareDec 13 16:33
schestowitzbrbDec 13 16:33
cubezzzhmmm, I thought Mac was higher than 5%Dec 13 16:33
MinceR(not just windows, also office)Dec 13 16:33
schestowitzcubezzz: in the US.Dec 13 16:33
MinceR(and web browsers)Dec 13 16:33
schestowitzAlso search market has the "US-based" part omittedDec 13 16:33
schestowitzUS population is less than 5% of the world's populationDec 13 16:34
*Tallken has quit ("Leaving")Dec 13 16:34
schestowitzBing globally: 3%Dec 13 16:34
cubezzzit would be interesting to see the country by country break-down Dec 13 16:34
schestowitzIn US: ~9% (maybe)Dec 13 16:34
shreddarWhat's with all the talk about Market Share for again?Dec 13 16:34
_nbndslow end hardware isnt meant to play games. so linux fits nicely into this sector, and netbook market is growing. nice have some hopeDec 13 16:34
schestowitzSo assume US loves Microsoft '3 times more'Dec 13 16:34
*schestowitz kidsDec 13 16:34
MinceRshreddar: it's the favorite bone for the m$ fanboys to chewDec 13 16:34
schestowitzbrbDec 13 16:35
MinceRshreddar: they don't have any technical argumentsDec 13 16:35
ChrisTXwhat technical arguments?Dec 13 16:35
MinceRabout which product is technically superiorDec 13 16:35
shreddarOh then chew on this the majority of PC's is Windows but not computer in general.Dec 13 16:35
ChrisTXMinceR, is boycottnovell about that?Dec 13 16:35
MinceRto m$ fanboys, there's only desktopsDec 13 16:35
cubezzzactually I did buy a zaurus a while back, that was linux basedDec 13 16:35
MinceRChrisTX: better ask schestowitz about that :)Dec 13 16:36
cubezzzso Dell, Sharp, ASUS, and AcerDec 13 16:36
ChrisTXno I just said, offering a Linux option is a point of cost - that's quite obvious - and due to market share that might be not profitable for some OEMsDec 13 16:36
ChrisTXnothing with technical pointsDec 13 16:37
ChrisTXor 'm$ fanboy' as you sayDec 13 16:37
schestowitzMS BSDec 13 16:37
MinceRm$ fanboys like to forget that in the supercomputer, server, mobile and embedded markets GNU/Linux has a much higher market share/installed base than windows.Dec 13 16:37
schestowitzhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2009/dec/10/art-design-serpentine-galleryDec 13 16:37
MinceRChrisTX: no, offering a Linux option is not a point of costDec 13 16:37
ChrisTXMinceR, did I speak about those?Dec 13 16:37
MinceRChrisTX: obviously you didn'tDec 13 16:37
ChrisTXwhy not?Dec 13 16:37
schestowitzI guess LHC doesn't use Windows cause it's "too expensiveDec 13 16:37
schestowitzSame for LSE....Dec 13 16:37
MinceRChrisTX: because the truth hurts, i guess :)Dec 13 16:37
ChrisTXI mean I would assume it isDec 13 16:37
schestowitzAnd the french cabinetDec 13 16:38
shreddarApple is profitable and it doesn't use Windows.Dec 13 16:38
schestowitzThey are just too poor those ministers...Dec 13 16:38
MinceRwell, it's too expensive to clean up the mess m$ products makeDec 13 16:38
ChrisTXhuh?Dec 13 16:39
ChrisTXthat's not my pointDec 13 16:39
ChrisTXlemme try to explain what I meantDec 13 16:39
ChrisTXit is, that offering a new OS is some kind of cost factor. That's quite obvious I guessDec 13 16:40
ChrisTXbecause you need people or techniques to install itDec 13 16:40
ChrisTXprepare rescue CDs etcDec 13 16:40
ChrisTXpeople expect thatDec 13 16:40
MinceRso is paying m$ license feesDec 13 16:40
ChrisTXyeah, but the user pays thoseDec 13 16:40
ChrisTXthese are for the company I meanDec 13 16:40
MinceRtraining the people and learning the know-how is a one-off cost, and not a particularly high one at thatDec 13 16:40
ChrisTXyet, based on demand it might not be profitableDec 13 16:41
ChrisTXwhich Im basically trying to say all the timeDec 13 16:41
MinceRyou're trying to say that most of the PC users know what windows is and demand itDec 13 16:41
ChrisTXbut then somebody threw the 'm$ fanboy' bomb at me showing how much MS FUD I would spreadDec 13 16:41
MinceRi think that's wrongDec 13 16:41
ChrisTXok, why do you think that?Dec 13 16:41
MinceRi've helped beginner windows users, so i have some concept of how much they knowDec 13 16:42
MinceRone user didn't even know what windows isDec 13 16:42
MinceRhow can you expect them to want to choose?Dec 13 16:42
shreddarChrisTX it seems the people you're talking about are Businesses.Dec 13 16:42
ChrisTXbusinesses ?Dec 13 16:42
ChrisTXwhat?Dec 13 16:42
shreddarCompaniesDec 13 16:42
MinceRwell, businesses are mostly concerned about cost, and m$ fails hard there.Dec 13 16:42
ChrisTXno businesses enroll themselvesDec 13 16:42
ChrisTXthat's a whole other pointDec 13 16:42
ChrisTXMinceR, well the thing is, most users expect that if you insert a CD, it will workDec 13 16:43
ChrisTXand it that's a windows appDec 13 16:43
ChrisTXit most likely won't on LinuxDec 13 16:43
ChrisTXthat, for exampleDec 13 16:43
MinceRi don't know what kind of CD you're talking aboutDec 13 16:44
ChrisTXISP CDs for example, or software they bought in a shopDec 13 16:44
ChrisTXlike a gameDec 13 16:44
MinceRthey don't need ISP CDsDec 13 16:44
MinceRGNU/Linux distros come with internet apps, including web browsers and PPPoE clientsDec 13 16:45
MinceRbtw, do most users also expect their system to keep working for months and not be riddled with malware? :>Dec 13 16:46
ChrisTXMinceR, so does Windows, that's not the pointDec 13 16:46
ChrisTXuhm really, malware is a whole other subjectDec 13 16:46
MinceRm$ might have defeated that expectationDec 13 16:46
ChrisTXyou get me wrong thereDec 13 16:46
shreddarChrisTX most people don't buy CD's for their PCDec 13 16:46
_nbndsnovell produces  enterprise-level opensource linuxDec 13 16:46
MinceR_nbnds: so does red hatDec 13 16:47
ChrisTXshreddar, games for example ?Dec 13 16:47
shreddarThey want everything to already be installed.Dec 13 16:47
MinceR_nbnds: and yet red hat doesn't assist m$ in harming the community while doing soDec 13 16:47
shreddarPC gamers is not the majority of PC users.Dec 13 16:47
MinceRnovell is also pushing mono into gnu/linux and gnome.Dec 13 16:47
ChrisTXshreddar, do you really think so?Dec 13 16:47
ChrisTXIm not sure about that oneDec 13 16:48
shreddarYesDec 13 16:48
MinceRand mono does have real legal issues regarding patentsDec 13 16:48
ChrisTXI mean quite a lot of people play something etcDec 13 16:48
ChrisTXanywayDec 13 16:48
MinceRunlike the linux kernelDec 13 16:48
ChrisTXthat's not the pointDec 13 16:48
MinceRChrisTX: quite a lot of people play games on consoles, not PCsDec 13 16:48
MinceRand quite a lot of people play casual flash gamesDec 13 16:48
ChrisTXyeah flash games are not the pointDec 13 16:48
MinceRyeah, i'm seeing the patternDec 13 16:49
ChrisTXbut I really think consoles don't have that high share yetDec 13 16:49
ChrisTXno MinceR, I'm not trying to argue for 'm$' like you thinkDec 13 16:49
MinceReverything that proves you wrong is simply "not the point"Dec 13 16:49
MinceRthen how are you trying to argue for m$?Dec 13 16:49
ChrisTXflash games work on about all osesDec 13 16:49
MinceRif not the way i think?Dec 13 16:49
MinceRmost of the things typical users do work on about all OSes nowDec 13 16:49
ChrisTXand malware is something that you can argue days aboutDec 13 16:49
MinceRand this is part of why m$ is losingDec 13 16:50
ChrisTXwell concerning office stuff etcDec 13 16:50
ChrisTXI couldn't say you'd be wrongDec 13 16:50
ChrisTXoffice is definitively using market shareDec 13 16:50
ChrisTXOOo is by far more popular than it was few years agoDec 13 16:50
shreddarYour right about Office users.Dec 13 16:50
ChrisTXit's because OOo is fine for most homeusersDec 13 16:51
ChrisTXthey don't need w/e office featuresDec 13 16:51
shreddarThey do make a large portion of PC users.Dec 13 16:51
shreddarPC gamer don't though.Dec 13 16:51
ChrisTXwell, we'd need stats for thatDec 13 16:51
shreddarOffice users however don't expect everything to just work though.Dec 13 16:51
ChrisTXwhat do you mean?Dec 13 16:52
shreddarNeither do PC gamers now that I think about it.Dec 13 16:52
MinceRbusiness users tend to have in-house support :)Dec 13 16:52
ChrisTXMinceR, yeaDec 13 16:52
shreddarThey don't just buy any CD expecting it to work. They are smart enough to see what compatible.Dec 13 16:52
ChrisTXbusiness users also enroll using PXE etcDec 13 16:52
ChrisTXeither WDS or gPXE, etc, doesn't matterDec 13 16:53
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ChrisTXI mean plugging a machine to a network and having it installing automatically is also more handy than a CDDec 13 16:53
shreddarRegular Average joes out their for the most part stay as far away from "Computers" (they usually mean PCs) as possible.Dec 13 16:54
ChrisTXsureDec 13 16:54
shreddarThey are the ones that want CD's to just workDec 13 16:55
ChrisTXyea, so?Dec 13 16:55
MinceRKPackageKit and Synaptic are also a lot handier than install CDsDec 13 16:56
shreddarThe main PC customers either want everything installed or they are smart enough to find compatible software (retail CDs)Dec 13 16:58
shreddarVery few people assume CD with just work.Dec 13 16:59
shreddarwith=willDec 13 16:59
ChrisTXanyway, another thing I don't understand is why Novell as Linux company should FUD LinuxDec 13 17:01
shreddarI didn't know Novell spreaded FUD on Linux. That sounds kinda dumb.Dec 13 17:02
MinceRthey've made a wrong turn at some pointDec 13 17:02
MinceRnow they're depending on m$, so they do what m$ tells them toDec 13 17:02
MinceRi don't know why they did thatDec 13 17:03
MinceRbuying SuSE was a decision that could have revitalized novellDec 13 17:03
MinceRand ever since they've been trying to harm themselves.Dec 13 17:03
shreddarI see the whole Novell/Microsoft thing is comparable to the scene in The Matrix where Agent Smith sticks his hand into people and makes a copies.Dec 13 17:07
shreddarThe Matrix 2 and 3 that is.Dec 13 17:07
EruaranAgent Steve Ballmer, "Me... me, me, me, me, me"Dec 13 17:16
MinceR:)Dec 13 17:16
_nbndssteve ballmer is a monkey, in a human costume:)Dec 13 17:17
MinceRnow that's very degrading to monkeys to say that ;)Dec 13 17:17
Diablo-D3<BillG> Me, tooDec 13 17:18
Diablo-D3<Balmer> Shuddup BillDec 13 17:18
_nbndswhat i dont understand, what is the point of this agressive marketing, like Ballmer presents? everyone knows, that he's behaving like an idiot, but everyone is looking at it... Dec 13 17:20
MinceRit seems that there still are people who (for one reason or another) believe himDec 13 17:21
MinceRfor example, for those who worship money he's a saint because he's rich.Dec 13 17:21
MinceRthat's why some "university" here in absurdistan (also known as hungary) honored him.Dec 13 17:22
_nbndspanem et circensesDec 13 17:22
MinceRit would be funnier if he didn't have means to harm human society.Dec 13 17:22
MinceRhe should be kept in a cage and showed to people.Dec 13 17:23
shreddarYeah Ballmers pretty bad for MSs PR.Dec 13 17:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Linux Basement podcast, very good show! http://linuxbasement.com/ #linux #foss #gnu #windows #microsoft #xp #vista #windows7Dec 13 17:26
phIRCe-localTitle: Linux Basement | Linux Lurking Beneath .::. Size~: 33.23 KBDec 13 17:26
MinceRhm, i forgot a point regarding dell's "linux" offers: afaik they're also in the patent racket, paying m$ for patents m$ does not own.Dec 13 17:26
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #FDIC won't turn over document illustrating #WaMu and #Chase fraud http://ur1.ca/hqgu #douchebags #politicsDec 13 17:26
MinceRBasement Cat!Dec 13 17:26
phIRCe-localTitle: FDIC sends a big F-U: completely blacked out documents in response to WaMu takeover freedom of information requests Boing Boing .::. Size~: 41.1 KBDec 13 17:26
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*shreddar_ 's Browser Crash :( Dec 13 17:28
*shreddar_ is now known as shreddarDec 13 17:29
MinceRSnow CrashDec 13 17:29
*Python1320 (i=Python13@dsl-tlubrasgw1-fe89de00-175.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #boycottnovellDec 13 17:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] A new url shrinking service. Free and simple! http://rupom.net/ #linux #foss #gnu #gplDec 13 17:32
phIRCe-localTitle: RUPOM.NET - Shrinks Your URL .::. Size~: 3.2 KBDec 13 17:32
_goblinMr Majestic on COLA seems very scared of his upcoming article...Quote "LOL, you are a vulgar lying COLA snake with a garbage site. You should call the site www.sloblin/goblin/a/skank/liar.com "Dec 13 17:34
MinceRhe should read up on how DNS worksDec 13 17:35
cubezzzwow, nice guyDec 13 17:36
cubezzzI don't bother with COLADec 13 17:36
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] UK detains children from foreign countries, denies them Christmas http://ur1.ca/hqjv #policestate #douchebagsDec 13 17:36
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Drug cartels helped save large banks, and not in a good way http://ur1.ca/hql6 #douchebagsDec 13 17:36
phIRCe-localTitle: Santa Claus banned from visiting locked-up children in UK asylum detention centre Boing Boing .::. Size~: 45.5 KBDec 13 17:37
phIRCe-localTitle: Hundreds of billions in crime money knowingly laundered by banks during credit crunch Boing Boing .::. Size~: 51.61 KBDec 13 17:37
MinceRthey could have Winter Solstice and Grav-mass instead!Dec 13 17:37
MinceRhm, not only DNS, but also URL/URIDec 13 17:38
cubezzzI use the term Newton Mass myself :)Dec 13 17:39
MinceRfor the holiday that starts on 12-25 and lasts for 10 days?Dec 13 17:39
cubezzzno, just December 25thDec 13 17:40
cubezzzwell, looks like no ARM netbook unless I buy netwalkerDec 13 17:45
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Shifting my gaze at the second of my distro reviews: Incognito 2009.0 beta very interesting LiveCD #linux #foss #gpl #freeDec 13 17:49
Diablo-D3there are othersDec 13 17:51
cubezzzI see all sorts of announcements but nothing that I can orderDec 13 17:54
ender2070arch is fast tooDec 13 17:55
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] This is why California has a budget shortfall http://ur1.ca/hqnt #douchebagsDec 13 17:56
phIRCe-localTitle: State Of California Doesn't Know How To Accept $14 Fee - The Consumerist .::. Size~: 49.95 KBDec 13 17:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Nitrotracker v0.4 for DS. If you have an R4 or similar its a great great util! http://rupom.net/37 #nds #nitrotacker #fossDec 13 17:58
phIRCe-localTitle: NitroTracker - A Fasttracker II style tracker for the Nintendo DS. .::. Size~: 34.68 KBDec 13 17:58
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Autumn in Japan timelapse http://ur1.ca/hqtwDec 13 18:01
phIRCe-localTitle: (autumn) on Vimeo .::. Size~: 42.53 KBDec 13 18:01
cubezzzthere's a ton of ebook devices nowDec 13 18:11
_goblinNote to channel: The user Declination is another Linxxx user.  Just discovered one of those void blogs where the only people who visit/comment are the same 16/17 that follow each other on Twitter...just for your info.Dec 13 18:13
_goblinHeres the level of this particular "blog" Quote: "The FSF has long been a pox upon the house of anyone who actually wants to 'get stuff done’"Dec 13 18:14
cubezzzmeaninglessDec 13 18:15
shreddarWhat a hateful, evil, ignorant, thing to say.Dec 13 18:15
_goblinand Mr De Icazza seems to support it....He has linked to it on his Twitter (which was picked up and retweeted by the Linxxx users)Dec 13 18:16
ender2070this guy REALLY doesnt get it, free software isnt a business modelDec 13 18:16
ender2070http://www.pwnage.ca/?p=433&cpage=1#comment-341Dec 13 18:16
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_goblinQuote Mr De Icaza: "Just discovered #######, track the FUD and Net Memes!"Dec 13 18:17
_goblinI wonder is this opinion held by the Gnome project as a whole?  Don't need to ask that of Mono.Dec 13 18:18
_goblinMaybe Linxxx isn't all that bad...Ive got some interesting questions to ask in a future article.....Dec 13 18:18
*Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@93.102.57.247.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovellDec 13 18:26
ender2070what articleDec 13 18:27
shreddarThat guy is treating FSF and it's supporters like they are a company.Dec 13 18:30
shreddarFree Software is just software that give users the freedom and control over the stuff on their computers.Dec 13 18:31
shreddarFree as in Freedom Software.Dec 13 18:31
shreddarI always though that was so confusing Dec 13 18:32
shreddarThey should just call it Freedom Software so people immediately know what they mean.Dec 13 18:32
shreddarIf you say Free Software everyone thinks of Freeware.Dec 13 18:33
shreddarThe fact you have to say Free as in Freedom only highlights the confusion.Dec 13 18:34
shreddarThere is also a huge problem in the Software Industry (as well as similar industries) that every company feels entitles to mass sums of money for their artificially scarce products. Dec 13 18:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Wondering where the BBC iPlayer app has gone from his @boxee box :SDec 13 18:40
shreddarAdobe charges $600 for every new version of Photoshop. If it was Free and Open Source they just couldn't do that.Dec 13 18:41
shreddarBut that's not Free Softwares faultDec 13 18:41
ChrisTXshreddar, what I don't get about that point is why it bothers you that they do so?Dec 13 18:42
ChrisTXI mean GIMP is availableDec 13 18:42
ChrisTXit's not like it wasntDec 13 18:42
shreddarChrisTX it doesn't bother that they do that.Dec 13 18:43
shreddarThat was an example for how Free Software is bad for Software companies that wasn't to be able to do that.Dec 13 18:44
shreddarwasn't = wantDec 13 18:44
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shreddar$600 for a Adobe computer built specifically for FOSS Photoshop could work.Dec 13 18:54
MinceRexcept for the fact that it's adobeDec 13 18:54
MinceRand nothing from adobe ever worksDec 13 18:54
MinceRthough if photoshop were FLOSSed, the community could turn it into something usableDec 13 18:55
shreddarIt's just with Hardware you have to be careful with supply and demand. If you manufacture 1,000,000,000 units and nobody buys them you're screwed.Dec 13 18:59
MinceRi think there should be modular laptops you can build from components like desktop pcsDec 13 19:00
shreddarIf you just print 1,000,000,000 CD and nobody buys them you can still be in business.Dec 13 19:00
shreddarLike AOLDec 13 19:00
shreddarObviously the Hardware business is not the small risk big reward setting Software companies are used to.Dec 13 19:02
shreddarThat doesn't matter to me as a customer and it shouldn't.Dec 13 19:08
shreddarIt's not my fault if I don't want to pay a ridiculous amount for something that's not really all that scarce.Dec 13 19:08
shreddarIt's not my problem that your company isn't willing to learn about Supply and Demand.Dec 13 19:11
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trmanco_stupid power loss :|Dec 13 19:24
schestowitzhttp://web.archive.org/web/20040928043900/http://pl.caldera.com/2004forum/agenda/Enderle_keynote_SCO-Forum2004.htmlDec 13 19:28
schestowitzthistle was right... he sucks up to Tomboyvell. http://www.twit.tv/floss99Dec 13 19:28
Omar87Hi guysDec 13 19:29
Omar87Anyone knows anythign about this bullc**p? http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9142106/Mozilla_exec_suggests_Firefox_users_move_to_Bing_cites_Google_privacy_stanceDec 13 19:29
phIRCe-localTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBDec 13 19:29
phIRCe-localAnyone knows anythign about this bullc**p? http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9142106/Mozilla_exec_suggests_Firefox_users_move_to_Bing_cites_Google_privacy_stanceDec 13 19:29
schestowitz[17:23] <shreddar> Yeah Ballmers pretty bad for MSs PR.Dec 13 19:30
schestowitzAnd good for usDec 13 19:30
Omar87schestowitz: So what's with Mozilla?Dec 13 19:31
schestowitz[18:11] <cubezzz> there's a ton of ebook devices nowDec 13 19:33
schestowitzAlmost all are Linux basedDec 13 19:33
schestowitzA success story that's never toldDec 13 19:33
Omar87Hi, Roy.Dec 13 19:34
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Omar87Did you read this article? http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9142106/Mozilla_exec_suggests_Firefox_users_move_to_Bing_cites_Google_privacy_stanceDec 13 19:35
phIRCe-localTitle:  Mozilla exec suggests Firefox users move to Bing, cites Google privacy stance .::. Size~: 139.32 KBDec 13 19:35
schestowitzOmar87: it's not MozillaDec 13 19:35
schestowitzIt's one guy whom I usually find obnoxiousDec 13 19:35
Omar87schestowitz: What do you mean?Dec 13 19:35
schestowitzIngore itDec 13 19:36
schestowitzThe others in Mozilla would not agreeDec 13 19:36
schestowitzHe -- unlike others -- does not seem to like Free(Dom) software eitherDec 13 19:36
schestowitzI wouldn't worry about itDec 13 19:36
Omar87schestowitz: Mozilla dumping Google for Bing to protect user privacy sounds pretty much like some junky goes from taking to cocaine to taking heroin just to avoid death in overdoze (they both will lead to the same thing).Dec 13 19:39
Omar87schestowitz: If we want to say truth, I think Startpage.com is the best choice for user privacy.Dec 13 19:40
shreddarI still have to mention my Wikipedia like search engine idea.Dec 13 19:41
shreddarIt would be this Open Source search engine that would be donation supported. (So they can buy losts of servers)Dec 13 19:43
Omar87shreddar: sounds good to me.Dec 13 19:44
Omar87http://www.workswithu.com/2009/12/10/dell-website-shows-ubuntu-more-respect/Dec 13 19:46
phIRCe-localTitle: Dell U.S. Website Shows Ubuntu More Respect | WorksWithU .::. Size~: 54.31 KBDec 13 19:46
schestowitz[19:39] <Omar87> schestowitz: Mozilla dumping Google for Bing to protect user privacy sounds pretty much like some junky goes from taking to cocaine to taking heroin just to avoid death in overdoze (they both will lead to the same thing).Dec 13 19:48
shreddarMan that's alot of Ubuntu/Canonical ads.Dec 13 19:48
schestowitzI'd have to memorise this analogy. Omar87 :-)Dec 13 19:48
schestowitzOmar87: from the news: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10410340-75.htmlDec 13 19:49
schestowitzFAR worse than GoogleDec 13 19:49
phIRCe-localTitle: Microsoft labs tests a Wikipedia of average Joes | Microsoft - CNET News .::. Size~: 112.75 KBDec 13 19:49
schestowitzThey make it publicDec 13 19:49
Omar87schestowitz: :-)Dec 13 19:49
schestowitzNot for the first time, either. Microsoft built profiles of people and made them public based on USENET messages. This was organised by its research unit and pulled about 2 years ago.Dec 13 19:49
schestowitzOmar87: and yes, Dell is playing more nicely. Can't say a bad thing about this latest move.Dec 13 19:50
schestowitzFedora claims 20 million instllationsDec 13 19:50
schestowitzFor Ubuntu it's likely to be a high number tooDec 13 19:50
schestowitzBut some are servers running Feodra rather than centosDec 13 19:51
schestowitzWow. Major coincidence. 10 minutes ago I mailed someone called Mark AnthonyDec 13 19:52
schestowitzAnd 5 minutes ago I got spam from the same name, by sheer coincidence.Dec 13 19:52
schestowitzBut Anthony is the middle name in one caseDec 13 19:52
Omar87schestowitz: lol! So Microsoft is desperately trying to clone Wikipedia?Dec 13 19:52
shreddarYou know I didn't know Asa was a Mozilla exec. I thought he just some guy who worked on the project.Dec 13 19:54
Omar87schestowitz: Oh my God, I just realized the article you just gave me is for Ina Fried. (You just can't imagine how much I hate that creature..)Dec 13 19:56
schestowitzshreddar: I was surprised he was an exec as well.Dec 13 19:58
schestowitzFor all I know, he is a very key person,  but more of an advocate/marketingDec 13 19:58
schestowitzHe was behind the Spread Firefox push (IIRC), which was a smashing success Dec 13 19:58
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] today's #wikipedia tour de force: http://is.gd/5m1zE TeX and all. Make sense? Did the SVG diagram and all :-DDec 13 19:59
phIRCe-localTitle: Carey Foster bridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 25.89 KBDec 13 19:59
schestowitzHe still roams the Web helping the spread of Microsoft, but this latest move was  amajor PR disaster IMHODec 13 19:59
schestowitzSchmidt was being an idiot with that remarkDec 13 19:59
schestowitzThen a guy from Mozilla chose to TOP that stupid remark]Dec 13 19:59
schestowitzSo now both mozilla and Google look bad to people who use Mozilla and Google to escape Convicted MonopolistDec 13 19:59
schestowitzOmar87: Ina is sucking up to Mister Ballmer. You should see them in interviewDec 13 20:00
schestowitzMary Jo oFley doesn't get interviews with Ballmer because she doesn't suck up to Microsoft 100% of the time and PR agencies like W-E notice and 'punish' herDec 13 20:01
schestowitzThat's the Microsoft 'PR politics' as they tell me about themDec 13 20:01
schestowitzFor instance, Mary Jo hasn't gotten access to Gates for many years because she MIGHT (Oh God forbid!) ask him a hard question.Dec 13 20:02
schestowitzSpeaking of being an arse: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/hardtalk/7414438.stmDec 13 20:02
phIRCe-localTitle: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 86.04 KBDec 13 20:02
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schestowitzSpeaking of being an arse, another one from Ben Stein: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlZtEjtlircDec 13 20:04
schestowitzcubezzz: here's a Linux preinstallDec 13 20:14
schestowitz"According to Computerworld, the server itself is a behemonth -- a $200,000+ machine designed to eclipse both their older mainframe offerings and high-end x86-based servers. It's been built to allow business not just to run Linux well, but to add horsepower on demand when businesses need it -- and to do that without disrupting anything else currently running."Dec 13 20:14
schestowitzhttp://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/12/ibms_big_iron_s.html;jsessionid=K4CMOZTQYCPP5QE1GHPSKH4ATMY32JVNDec 13 20:14
schestowitzIt doesn't come with the XP tax, so....Dec 13 20:14
phIRCe-localTitle: InformationWeek.com .::. Size~: 77.37 KBDec 13 20:14
schestowitzOf course, the box costs like 100,000% the cost of a licence, but...Dec 13 20:15
schestowitz"Linux-based servers are becoming increasingly popular in Europe, but Linux administrators typically believe there is little need for special security around these servers because the operating system in inherently more secure than others." http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2009/12/11/239685/video-interview-nikolay-grebennikov-on-linux-server.htmDec 13 20:15
schestowitzSays insecurity company (making money from _lack_ of security)Dec 13 20:16
schestowitzhttp://www.velti.com/index.cfm?page=1411&articleID=19509496Dec 13 20:18
phIRCe-localTitle: Firefox mobile internet browser 'will launch in December' | #MobileMarketing | Velti Mobile Marketing News | Velti .::. Size~: 19.53 KBDec 13 20:18
schestowitzhttp://industry.bnet.com/technology/10004377/arrington-crunchpad-suit-paints-him-as-naive/Dec 13 20:18
phIRCe-localTitle: Arrington CrunchPad Suit Paints Him As Naïve | BNET Technology Blog | BNET .::. Size~: 50.96 KBDec 13 20:18
schestowitzIT didn't take a gadget to paint him that wayDec 13 20:19
schestowitz!google arrington people ready microsoftDec 13 20:19
phIRCe-local[1] - Arrington mourns abortion of enigmatic CrunchPad | http://www.tgdaily.com/consumer-electronics-features/44871-arrington-mourns-untimely-death-of-enigmatic-crunchpad-Dec 13 20:19
phIRCe-local[2] - Malik, Arrington and Battelle: X-22, come in | News Blog - CNET News | http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9733995-7.htmlDec 13 20:19
phIRCe-local[3] - Microsoft pays star writers to recite slogan - Valleywag - Gawker | http://valleywag.gawker.com/271485/microsoft-pays-star-writers-to-recite-sloganDec 13 20:19
phIRCe-local[4] - I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! | http://www.crunchnotes.com.php5-2.dfw1-2.websitetestlink.com/2007/06/23/im-shocked-shocked-to-find-that-gambling-is-going-on-in-here/Dec 13 20:19
schestowitzhttp://www.stockwatch.in/transcend-unveils-new-usb-drive-jetflash-600-india-24252Dec 13 20:20
phIRCe-localTitle: Transcend unveils a new USB drive, Jetflash 600 in India  | Stock Watch .::. Size~: 14.35 KBDec 13 20:20
schestowitzDell Fell [fail] http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/12/11/part.delays.hampering.dell.holidays/Dec 13 20:23
phIRCe-localTitle: Dell having trouble delivering holiday orders? | Electronista .::. Size~: 79.82 KBDec 13 20:23
schestowitzhttp://news.softpedia.com/news/Mozilla-Releases-Thunderbird-3-0-for-Linux-129310.shtml Great appDec 13 20:30
phIRCe-localTitle: Mozilla Releases Thunderbird 3.0 for Linux - Introducing tabbed e-mail, global search, e-mail archiving and more - Softpedia .::. Size~: 53.98 KBDec 13 20:30
trmancotoo bad it's gtk :|Dec 13 20:30
schestowitzSkin itDec 13 20:31
schestowitzit mixed well with Oxygen hereDec 13 20:31
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schestowitzhttp://www.silvermel.net/Dec 13 20:31
phIRCe-localTitle: themes for firefox and thunderbird .::. Size~: 3.11 KBDec 13 20:31
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trmancoI knowDec 13 20:31
schestowitzUse SilverDec 13 20:31
schestowitzLooks better than all the themes I've used for 5 yearsDec 13 20:32
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trmancothe only thing I use that is gtk is firefoxDec 13 20:32
trmancoand I skinned it, because the default theme is horribleDec 13 20:32
schestowitzhttp://it-chuiko.com/internet/1643-the-french-military-declined-from-ms-outlook-in.htmlDec 13 20:35
phIRCe-localTitle: The French military declined from MS Outlook in favor of Mozilla Thunderbird » IT - Chuiko | Information Technology News .::. Size~: 41.79 KBDec 13 20:35
schestowitzMozilla needs to get its thing together with themes. Most Linux distros too, with or without Composite by defaultDec 13 20:35
schestowitzhttp://baghira.sourceforge.net/OS_Clone-en.phpDec 13 20:36
phIRCe-localTitle: Baghira - Arnaud's OSX cloning tutorial .::. Size~: 63.29 KBDec 13 20:36
shreddarThat's kinda cool. I almost themed my Gnome desktop to look like OSX.Dec 13 20:39
shreddarThen I decided to go with Elegant Brit.Dec 13 20:39
shreddarI just didn't like the default look.Dec 13 20:41
shreddarI think I would've gotten tired of the OSX look.Dec 13 20:42
shreddarPlus it would remind me of what I don't have.Dec 13 20:42
burritso why does novell "including TPM support" take away rights?Dec 13 20:44
schestowitzDelusion? http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/12/11/america-is-on-a-path-to-economic-recovery/Dec 13 20:44
phIRCe-localTitle:   America is on a path to economic recovery  RoughlyDrafted Magazine .::. Size~: 41.77 KBDec 13 20:44
schestowitzburrit: it ushers it along with I.B.M.Dec 13 20:45
MinceRwhy not remind yourself that you aren't impeded in your work and entertainment by macos? :>Dec 13 20:45
schestowitzshreddar: Bagjra goes many years backDec 13 20:45
burritschestowitz, i still don't understand how that will even eventaully take away our rightsDec 13 20:46
schestowitzWhen I was on KDE 3.1 in 2004 it was more distant an idea... to make KDE as good-looking (skin deep) as JaguarDec 13 20:46
schestowitzburrit: it takes control to begin withDec 13 20:46
schestowitzThen, companies will choose to hook onto this controlDec 13 20:46
schestowitzGreed for power knows no boundsDec 13 20:46
burrithmmmmDec 13 20:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] jIH muS Wintrolls #klingon (translate: http://bit.ly/508fmH)Dec 13 20:47
burritno, i think you are wrongDec 13 20:47
schestowitzThat too is why privacy is importanyDec 13 20:47
phIRCe-localTitle: Tweet in Klingon .::. Size~: 35.16 KBDec 13 20:47
burritschestowitz, tpm never "takes power"Dec 13 20:47
burritit is 100% a passive deviceDec 13 20:47
MinceRthen again, macos is uglyDec 13 20:47
schestowitzAnd worse, you can't change itDec 13 20:47
schestowitzMaybe change some tones onlyDec 13 20:47
schestowitzTheme uniformity... like communist Russia /sarcasmDec 13 20:47
schestowitzTaking marching orders from Mr. JobsDec 13 20:48
burritin order for what you suggest to happen, you would have to install such software (which currently doesn't even exist) yourselfDec 13 20:48
schestowitzburrit: explain why notDec 13 20:48
burritokDec 13 20:49
schestowitzElaborate on why it can't take power awayDec 13 20:49
schestowitzburrit: not youDec 13 20:49
schestowitzA company that deploys your workstationDec 13 20:49
schestowitzIt's like DRMDec 13 20:49
schestowitzYou can buy DRM-freeDec 13 20:49
burritrightDec 13 20:49
burriti seeDec 13 20:49
schestowitzBut with DRM, companies will make use of itDec 13 20:49
burritso you believe that your company shouldn't have control over their own property?Dec 13 20:49
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schestowitzNot to that degreeDec 13 20:50
schestowitzLet me ask you this:Dec 13 20:50
burriti seeDec 13 20:50
schestowitzAt work, you mail your wifeDec 13 20:50
schestowitzShould your boss be able to intrude or not?Dec 13 20:50
schestowitz[and many already do BTW]Dec 13 20:50
yuhonghttp://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/12/help-saving-mysql.htmlDec 13 20:50
phIRCe-localTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBDec 13 20:50
schestowitzyuhong: just ignore himDec 13 20:50
yuhong"Oracle has instead contacted hundreds of their big customers and asked them to write to the EC and require unconditional acceptance of the deal.“Dec 13 20:51
shreddarburrit so do you believe that a customer shouldn't have controls over their own property?Dec 13 20:51
yuhongNot even MS does this.Dec 13 20:51
burrittpm is neither here nor there about whether your boss can 'intrude' on your wife emailDec 13 20:51
schestowitzIt can beDec 13 20:51
schestowitzAs an analogyDec 13 20:51
yuhong"I don't think it's right that big companies should be able to buy they way out of competition chargers by mobilizing customers.“Dec 13 20:51
schestowitzYou distorted my messageDec 13 20:51
burritshreddar as I stated above, if you install software that implements any kind of vendor lock in, it's your own faultDec 13 20:51
schestowitzI didn't say TPM is related to itDec 13 20:51
schestowitzIt was an exampleDec 13 20:51
burritwell what the hell, heheDec 13 20:52
burriti'm talking about tpmDec 13 20:52
schestowitzTPM is like this (to put it simply):Dec 13 20:52
schestowitzTPM adds a hook for controlDec 13 20:52
schestowitzIn due time, companies can require that controlDec 13 20:52
yuhongschestowitz: Why?Dec 13 20:52
schestowitzYou can require that people enable it to access the InternetDec 13 20:52
schestowitzFor "security" reasonDec 13 20:52
schestowitzSolution?Dec 13 20:52
schestowitzDo not support TPMDec 13 20:53
schestowitzShun TPMDec 13 20:53
yuhongOr it can be used for other purposes too.Dec 13 20:53
burritnoDec 13 20:53
schestowitzHow to harm our freedom:Dec 13 20:53
burriti think you read slashdot too muchDec 13 20:53
schestowitzSupport DRMDec 13 20:53
schestowitzSupport ACTADec 13 20:53
schestowitzSupport TPMDec 13 20:53
schestowitzSupport DPIDec 13 20:53
schestowitzSupport Marshall lawDec 13 20:53
yuhongThere is no doubt about the first two.Dec 13 20:53
schestowitzYou seem not to understand the mechanisms of control and how history demonstrate their misuseDec 13 20:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] DW/LJ: Last of the famous international playboys http://reddragdiva.dreamwidth.org/23076.html http://reddragdiva.livejournal.com/536990.htmlDec 13 20:54
phIRCe-localTitle: reddragdiva | Last of the famous international playboys. .::. Size~: 27.66 KBDec 13 20:54
phIRCe-localTitle: reddragdiva: Last of the famous international playboys. .::. Size~: 18.65 KBDec 13 20:54
schestowitzIf people are allowed to sniff your packet, they willDec 13 20:54
schestowitzSee AT&T....Dec 13 20:54
burrit????Dec 13 20:54
schestowitzIf the media can censor/distort, it willDec 13 20:54
yuhongOf course.Dec 13 20:54
burritokDec 13 20:54
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schestowitzIf a criminal president does not need Senate permission to start a war, he willDec 13 20:54
sebsebsebhiDec 13 20:54
schestowitzsebsebseb: welcomeDec 13 20:54
burritenough philosophy pleaseDec 13 20:54
yuhongOf course.Dec 13 20:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] The only time I see people that happy with AOL is when they escape them http://tinyurl.com/yejau44Dec 13 20:55
phIRCe-localTitle: BBC News - AOL seeks a new growth strategy .::. Size~: 50.41 KBDec 13 20:55
yuhongAnyway, my topic is MySQL.Dec 13 20:55
schestowitzburrit: no, I don't read SlashdotDec 13 20:55
yuhong"Oracle has instead contacted hundreds of their big customers and asked them to write to the EC and require unconditional acceptance of the deal.“Dec 13 20:55
yuhong"I don't think it's right that big companies should be able to buy they way out of competition chargers by mobilizing customers.“Dec 13 20:55
schestowitzNot that I see how /. has anything to do with itDec 13 20:55
yuhongNot even MS does this.Dec 13 20:55
schestowitzIt's not philosophy, burritDec 13 20:55
schestowitzIt's your lifeDec 13 20:55
schestowitzNot at mental levelDec 13 20:55
schestowitzAt very practical levelsDec 13 20:55
burriti bring up /. because thats where all the ridiculous "trecherous computing" fruits come fromDec 13 20:55
yuhongAnd MS is a even worse convicted monopolistDec 13 20:55
schestowitzNo, "trecherous computing"  is FSF termDec 13 20:56
shreddarOh! You're talking about Trusted Computing.Dec 13 20:56
schestowitzSome GNU person (maybe RMS) invented itDec 13 20:56
burrityes yes yes I knowDec 13 20:56
schestowitzyuhong: Microsoft wants to block the dealDec 13 20:56
burriti'm trying to understand why you think tpm use restricts freedomsDec 13 20:56
schestowitzIt chokes Java and OOo, VirtualBox, other stuff...Dec 13 20:57
schestowitzDo the smell testDec 13 20:57
burritand you seem to claim that companies will use it on their own equipmentDec 13 20:57
burritand that that is wrongDec 13 20:57
schestowitzIf Microsoft likes it, it's probably best for usDec 13 20:57
schestowitzOopsDec 13 20:57
schestowitzOppositeDec 13 20:57
MinceRburrit: if you think that the tpm is benign, explain what the Endorsement Key is good forDec 13 20:57
yuhongOf course MS would want to block the deal, but this do not mean this can be ignored.Dec 13 20:57
yuhong"Oracle has instead contacted hundreds of their big customers and asked them to write to the EC and require unconditional acceptance of the deal.“Dec 13 20:57
yuhong"I don't think it's right that big companies should be able to buy they way out of competition chargers by mobilizing customers.“Dec 13 20:57
MinceRwhat does it enable anyone (including companies) to take care of their own computers better?Dec 13 20:58
schestowitzyuhong: hello? You pasted this 3 timesDec 13 20:58
burritMinceR  endorsement key isn't even every seen anymore with attestationDec 13 20:58
shreddarTrusted Computing seems like it's invented to give a very select few control over what every computer in the world is uses for and capable of.Dec 13 20:58
yuhongTrue. This can't be ignored.Dec 13 20:58
burritMinceR so your privacy concern was obliterated in 1.1 specsDec 13 20:58
MinceRburrit: attestation doesn't serve the interests of the ownerDec 13 20:58
shreddarThat's scarry.Dec 13 20:58
shreddarI don't know how it wouldn't be.Dec 13 20:58
yuhongshreddar: It was, but they are now permoting it fo rother purposes.Dec 13 20:58
MinceRattestation is there so that others can control what you run on your own computer.Dec 13 20:58
burritMinceR so don't use it?Dec 13 20:58
yuhongI mean, even MS don't do this.Dec 13 20:59
schestowitzburrit: it's staged introDec 13 20:59
schestowitzLike with ID card in the UKDec 13 20:59
schestowitzFirst it's permissiveDec 13 20:59
schestowitzThen encouragedDec 13 20:59
MinceRburrit: exactly. don't use treacherous campaignDec 13 20:59
shreddarPurposes that don't involve giving select few control over all the computers out there?Dec 13 20:59
schestowitzEventually a mustDec 13 20:59
MinceRs/campaign/computing/Dec 13 20:59
schestowitzLearn from historyDec 13 20:59
burritMinceR you are forgetting that such software (along with the privacy CAs and manufacturer certs) does not existDec 13 20:59
MinceRwhat sw doesn't exist?Dec 13 20:59
burritany software that employs even remote ideas of such vendor lockdownDec 13 21:00
MinceRyet.Dec 13 21:00
burritokDec 13 21:00
burritso will you install it on your computer when it comes out?Dec 13 21:00
MinceRi won't, as long as i have a choice.Dec 13 21:00
schestowitzit's like RIAA and premium contentDec 13 21:00
burritor you tihnk it's morally wrong that a compay install it on their workstatoins?Dec 13 21:00
*yuhong has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091028153816]")Dec 13 21:00
schestowitzUse "our stuff" for access to exclusive filmsDec 13 21:00
schestowitzBait and switchDec 13 21:01
MinceRnopeDec 13 21:01
shreddarScary "as long as you have a choice"Dec 13 21:01
schestowitzSometimes it's another schemeDec 13 21:01
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MinceRi think it's morally wrong to force TPMs into every computerDec 13 21:01
burritlol well then what the hell is the problem? :)Dec 13 21:01
burrit??Dec 13 21:01
schestowitzThe incentivitisation to 'reform' peopleDec 13 21:01
burrittpm use has great benefitsDec 13 21:01
schestowitzLike paying people to replace TV and go digitalDec 13 21:01
schestowitzOr cash for clunkersDec 13 21:01
MinceRi'm not seeing those great benefitsDec 13 21:01
yuhongschestowitz: I'm sure that was the original plan.Dec 13 21:01
shreddarYeah so does Martial LawDec 13 21:01
burritthat's because you don't konw what it doesDec 13 21:01
MinceRi do know what it doesDec 13 21:01
burritthen why don't you understand how an individual can use it?Dec 13 21:02
schestowitzshreddar: yes, "Security"Dec 13 21:02
MinceRmost of that baggage doesn't serve the individual's needsDec 13 21:02
schestowitzThat's what the 'war' in Iraq was for, tooDec 13 21:02
burritlol bullDec 13 21:02
schestowitzIt only increased threat 7-foldDec 13 21:02
MinceRso what an individual can do with it is just an excuseDec 13 21:02
burritnoDec 13 21:02
burritI argue that that is very, very wrongDec 13 21:02
yuhongNow they are permoting it mostly for business use, so it won't get on every consumer computer.Dec 13 21:02
MinceRa lot of what TC does shows that the intention is not to serve the interests of the owners of the computersDec 13 21:02
burritalmost totally secure storage of keys is useless then, eh?Dec 13 21:02
schestowitzDRM was called "enablement" later...Dec 13 21:03
MinceRtokens can do thatDec 13 21:03
burritnoDec 13 21:03
schestowitzAs if DRM really gives 'benefit'Dec 13 21:03
schestowitzTo whom?Dec 13 21:03
MinceRwithout being soldered onto the mainboardDec 13 21:03
burritfrom third parties is differentDec 13 21:03
MinceRyes they canDec 13 21:03
burritsecure storage on local machine tooDec 13 21:03
MinceRif you think tokens can't do that, you'd better learn what tokens are.Dec 13 21:03
burritno, i think you don't understand how PKI worksDec 13 21:03
schestowitzbrbDec 13 21:04
MinceRand i think that you are cluelessDec 13 21:04
burritthis is about keeping the private part privateDec 13 21:04
burritwell okDec 13 21:04
yuhongYep, Digital "Rights" Management.Dec 13 21:04
yuhongFSF prefers "Restrictions".Dec 13 21:04
MinceRit's more accurateDec 13 21:04
schestowitzyuhong: http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=5419Dec 13 21:04
yuhongI prefer "Rights/Restrictions".Dec 13 21:05
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shreddarGive me control over your computer. I'll keep away viruses, pedophiles and Spam. I promise I won't do anything bad. Honest.Dec 13 21:05
MinceRfor example, fair use is a right yet DRM takes that awayDec 13 21:05
yuhongI know, but this don't mean the tactics can be ignored.Dec 13 21:05
schestowitzshreddar: it's more passive than thatDec 13 21:05
schestowitzIt's more like censorshipDec 13 21:05
schestowitzYou'll be able to restrict what goes in and outDec 13 21:05
schestowitzLike keep away all that 'unhealthy' stuffDec 13 21:06
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/23/google-is-dirty-microsoft-is-hypocrite/Dec 13 21:06
phIRCe-localTitle: Microsoft Has Already Decided: Google is Dirty, Microsoft is Clean | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 116.55 KBDec 13 21:06
yuhongI mean, even MS don't do this.Dec 13 21:07
schestowitzThat's what net neutrality is all about, tooDec 13 21:07
burrityes, i guess tpm is a very scary thing if i accidently install such evil software that might eventually exist on my computerDec 13 21:07
burritsomedayDec 13 21:07
MinceRTPM is basically a piece of hw the owner is often forced to pay for even though it's designed to serve interests counter to hisDec 13 21:08
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burritMinceR thats fudDec 13 21:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Honorable mentions – what’s been good this weekend. http://rupom.net/38 #klingon #nintendo #ds #incognito #linux #foss #r4Dec 13 21:09
phIRCe-localTitle: Honorable mentions  whats been good this weekend. «  OPEN BYTES  cave quid dicis, quando, et cui. .::. Size~: 34.75 KBDec 13 21:09
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MinceRburrit: no, that's an accurate summaryDec 13 21:09
burritMinceR i think you are very wrongDec 13 21:09
MinceRand i think that you are wrongDec 13 21:09
burritwell the difference is that one of us actually understands what tc isDec 13 21:09
MinceRindeed, one of us doesDec 13 21:10
burrithow much code for tpm use have you written?Dec 13 21:10
MinceRand the other one spreads bullshit about how great it isDec 13 21:10
burritdid you read the spec?Dec 13 21:10
MinceRwhile mentioning things the TPM allows one to do, even though any token can do those thingsDec 13 21:10
yuhongAnyway, now "trusted computing" is premoted for mostly business use, so it won't be on every consumer computer.Dec 13 21:10
MinceRi did read parts of itDec 13 21:10
burritoh great. . . ."parts of it"Dec 13 21:10
MinceRyuhong: it's on non-crap high-end laptopsDec 13 21:10
shreddarYou know that's one of the unsettling things about Chrome OS to me. Is how close it's security features remind me of TC.Dec 13 21:10
burritso you must know exactly how it worksDec 13 21:11
MinceRi know enough of how it worksDec 13 21:11
burrithaha rightDec 13 21:11
burriti've determined which one of us understands tpmDec 13 21:11
MinceRburrit: i'm still waiting for your explanation of how the endorsement key and remote attestation are supposed to serve the interests of the owner of the computer.Dec 13 21:11
burriteasyDec 13 21:11
MinceRburrit: or at least an explanation of why they're there if they don't.Dec 13 21:11
burritso unless you're a jackass and installed it on your personal worstation, owner = companyDec 13 21:12
*sebsebseb has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Dec 13 21:12
burritcompany is controlling which software goes on their workstationDec 13 21:12
burritthere you goDec 13 21:12
burritand, for the second time, the ek isn't even visible in this scenarioDec 13 21:12
MinceRit doesn't matter if it's visible or notDec 13 21:13
burritso your privacy concerns were removed in 1.2 of the specDec 13 21:13
yuhongYes, but not on every laptop.Dec 13 21:13
burritto some it doesDec 13 21:13
MinceRit's there and the owner has paid for itDec 13 21:13
burritah, so you argue that the tpm chip adds significant cost to the laptop?Dec 13 21:13
schestowitzburrit's "real name" is "maggie-poo".... hmmmmmmmmm...........Dec 13 21:13
MinceRand the company can put their own private keys on it anywayDec 13 21:13
burritbut that would be stupid considering the purpose is to keep the key secret . . .Dec 13 21:13
burritand that would make the key migratableDec 13 21:13
schestowitzBTW, Google already locks down netbooksDec 13 21:14
MinceRthen they can generate private keys on itDec 13 21:14
schestowitzApple does that with its crippleware tooDec 13 21:14
burrityesDec 13 21:14
burrittrueDec 13 21:14
schestowitzAnd fights over it in court with PsychostarDec 13 21:14
MinceRthen there's no point for the EKDec 13 21:14
burritno, ek still hsa a pointDec 13 21:14
MinceRwell, what is it then?Dec 13 21:14
burritthe other keys can be erased if you re-take ownership of itDec 13 21:14
burritand the SRK changes tooDec 13 21:14
schestowitzSo the idea of being force to run something with DRM-like h/w is not far-fetchedDec 13 21:14
burritthe EK never changesDec 13 21:14
MinceRso what?Dec 13 21:14
shreddarTC isn't bad if I'm still in control over my computers. But then I don't think that goes with the idea behind TC.Dec 13 21:14
burrityou really don't see the use of a non-ephemeral key??Dec 13 21:14
yuhongI know, the history of the Apple case is another mess.Dec 13 21:14
MinceRif they erase the private key you trust that machine based on, they win nothing by erasing itDec 13 21:15
schestowitzWe already live in an era where RIAA lobbies to force people to install spyware that detects 'infringing' 'content'Dec 13 21:15
schestowitzhttp://techie-buzz.com/opensource/french-military-thunderbird.html //Dec 13 21:15
phIRCe-localTitle: French Military contributes to Thunderbird .::. Size~: 47.54 KBDec 13 21:15
burritMinceR sureDec 13 21:15
schestowitzFrance runs away from vendor controlDec 13 21:15
schestowitzWhy do you think that is?Dec 13 21:15
burritMinceR i was explaining the use of EKDec 13 21:15
schestowitzFrench military, German, Turkish...Dec 13 21:15
schestowitzMaybe they realise who's increasingly in chargeDec 13 21:15
yuhongOnce the Mac ROM and the fact that the core of the Mac system software is just a set of patches to it protected the Mac from cloning.Dec 13 21:15
MinceRburrit: so what does the owner win by having a key there that can't be erased?Dec 13 21:16
schestowitzFrench govt did the same (cabinet members all run Ubuntu0Dec 13 21:16
burritMinceR it's used in remote attestation in a non-visible wayDec 13 21:16
schestowitzChrome OS makes root partition RODec 13 21:16
schestowitzYuck!Dec 13 21:16
burritMinceR and i don't understand why you are all scared of the ekDec 13 21:16
MinceRburrit: i'm not scared of it, since i already control the boot loaderDec 13 21:17
burritschestowitz RO root partition has been done in BSD land since 70s . . .Dec 13 21:17
schestowitzMaybe Chromium OS will enable one to change it, but it won't come on sub-notebooks.  It's a PR excuse for people to play with while Google gets to call it "open source"Dec 13 21:17
MinceRif anyone cries because remote attestation yields a result they don't like, i can tell them i have a boot loader of my own and they can just screw themselves.Dec 13 21:17
yuhongThen Apple decided to allow Mac clones and decided to in the future help them by adopting CHRP, which required this ROM to be moved to disk.Dec 13 21:17
MinceRi'm simply offended by the fact that i'm forced to buy something that was designed to serve the interests who want to take over control of computers they do not own.Dec 13 21:18
MinceRs/ests/& of those/Dec 13 21:18
burritMinceR " take over control of computers they do not own." ???Dec 13 21:18
burritplease explain how the hell this is doneDec 13 21:19
MinceRby demanding that remote attestation shows that i'm running the exact version of the OS and apps that they require.Dec 13 21:20
MinceRthe problem here is that many clueless users would comply with such a request.Dec 13 21:20
burritso you think that someone will randomly request remote atttestion from you???Dec 13 21:20
MinceRsomeone i might be doing business withDec 13 21:20
burriti seeDec 13 21:21
MinceRor just about anyone i'm communicating withDec 13 21:21
burritso you don't understand that for remote attestion to work, you have to have an entire compliant osDec 13 21:21
MinceRi doDec 13 21:21
MinceR221510 < MinceR> by demanding that remote attestation shows that i'm running the exact version of the OS and apps that they require.Dec 13 21:21
MinceRre-read this line then.Dec 13 21:21
burritnoDec 13 21:21
burritthat still doesn't make senseDec 13 21:21
burritit makes no sense for any company to request remote attestations like you are suggesting because it REQUIRES A COMPLIANT OSDec 13 21:22
burritwhich doesn't existDec 13 21:22
burritand of course you don't have installedDec 13 21:22
burritso your concern of someone requiring one day is absurdDec 13 21:22
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MinceRyet.Dec 13 21:23
burritrightDec 13 21:23
schestowitz_goblin: they have videos too :-) http://linuxbasement.com/vlogDec 13 21:23
phIRCe-localTitle: Linux Basement Vlog | Linux Basement .::. Size~: 34.64 KBDec 13 21:23
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yuhonghttp://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/12/how-the-robber-barons-hijacked-the-victorian-internet.arsDec 13 21:24
phIRCe-localTitle: How Robber Barons hijacked the "Victorian Internet" .::. Size~: 39.13 KBDec 13 21:24
shreddarI think all they have to do is sell computers with the compliant OS already installed. Dec 13 21:24
schestowitzyuhong: yes, already in BNDec 13 21:24
burritso, for that to work, someone will require you to be running the evil tpm osDec 13 21:24
MinceRyeah, and once enough clueless users have them, they can start requiring them in random situations, saying that you're infected by viruses if you don'tDec 13 21:25
schestowitzyuhong: in http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/03/microsoft-news-corp-backtracking/Dec 13 21:25
phIRCe-localTitle: Microsoft About Anti-Google “Bribes”: Lets Call the Whole Thing Off | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 103.54 KBDec 13 21:25
shreddarIt would already be running.Dec 13 21:25
MinceRsay, accessing state services over the internetDec 13 21:25
burritMinceR sure, i agree that that might happenDec 13 21:25
shreddarBecause the manufacturers installed it.Dec 13 21:25
MinceRthen they could make it the only way to access such servicesDec 13 21:25
schestowitzshreddar: or they can pay people to take the tpm poison pillDec 13 21:25
burritMinceR but how is that any worse from clueless users right now?Dec 13 21:25
MinceRand you'd end up in a world where you pay thousands of dollars for a computer you don't have control overDec 13 21:25
schestowitzThat's how it's usually done by governments (similar incentives for other stuff)Dec 13 21:25
MinceRburrit: now at least i have control over my own computer, even if clueless users don't have control over their own computersDec 13 21:26
burritMinceR i disagree completely, if you or me buy such a computer with such an os, then we are idiotsDec 13 21:26
schestowitzburrit chooses to be naive cause he likes TPM, maybe for a living, who knows...Dec 13 21:26
MinceRand i can access web services and i can do business in this wayDec 13 21:26
burritMinceR ok, so you think that eventually you won't have a choice about your os??Dec 13 21:26
MinceReventually this could be turned into m$'s wet dream of taking over all PCs like they imagined with palladiumDec 13 21:26
schestowitzburrit: they *Are* idiotsDec 13 21:26
schestowitzThere's a saying that goes likeDec 13 21:26
MinceRburrit: i think it's possibleDec 13 21:26
shreddarWe hardly have a choice nowDec 13 21:26
burritMinceR well i don'tDec 13 21:27
burritMinceR you suggest that there won't be one vendor in the world that supplies a computer without/with a different osDec 13 21:27
MinceRburrit: and eventually we can end up in a market where we can't buy PCs we can control.Dec 13 21:27
schestowitz"There are 3 types of users... those who understand computers... they who don't care about computers... and those who try to take advantage of the other two groups"Dec 13 21:27
MinceRclueful users don't comprise enough part of the market.Dec 13 21:27
schestowitz[21:26] <shreddar> We hardly have a choice nowDec 13 21:27
schestowitzYes, VIsta DRM is a mustDec 13 21:27
schestowitzVIsta 7Dec 13 21:27
MinceRburrit: i can't possibly get the means to construct a computer in home conditions.Dec 13 21:28
schestowitzSame BS that Gutmann warned aboutDec 13 21:28
schestowitzBut they nymshifted to escape the warningsDec 13 21:28
burritMinceR ok, well if you'll argue that every vendor in the world will all sell the same os restrictivelyDec 13 21:28
MinceRwell, at least for some decades. maybe rapid prototyping will lead out of this situation.Dec 13 21:28
burritMinceR i guess i just disagreeDec 13 21:28
schestowitzI think you just lose the argumentDec 13 21:28
schestowitz"Idiots can be defeated but they never admit it." --Richard StallmanDec 13 21:29
yuhong"But they nymshifted to escape the warnings" I would not go that far.Dec 13 21:29
schestowitzThey didDec 13 21:29
schestowitzVista 7 is VIstaDec 13 21:29
burriti have nothing to say to youDec 13 21:29
burrityou are ignorantDec 13 21:29
schestowitzThey deliberately pulled a MojaveDec 13 21:29
schestowitzThey knew Vista had a bad reputationDec 13 21:29
schestowitzThey just needed to spend $500,000,000 on propaganda and bullying or criticsDec 13 21:29
schestowitzThen promote this new name, "win7'Dec 13 21:30
schestowitz /or/of/Dec 13 21:30
yuhongI know, but I don't think they pulled a Mojave.Dec 13 21:30
MinceRm$ does a lot of rebranding nowadaysDec 13 21:30
MinceRm$n->live->bing, vista->win7Dec 13 21:30
schestowitzAzune [sic].....Dec 13 21:30
MinceRpalladium->tcpa->tcDec 13 21:30
yuhong"vista->win7" Not a rebranding.Dec 13 21:30
burritwowDec 13 21:30
burritpalladium != tcDec 13 21:30
MinceRwince->winmo->who knows whatDec 13 21:30
schestowitzSideKICKDec 13 21:31
MinceRwell, tc is what became of palladium once the hw makers said no :>Dec 13 21:31
schestowitzkicked in the sideDec 13 21:31
schestowitzAnd sued this weekDec 13 21:31
MinceRit's a subtler planDec 13 21:31
yuhong"wince->winmo“ Not a rebranding.Dec 13 21:31
schestowitzFor data lossDec 13 21:31
yuhongWinCE was rebranded WinEmbeddedCE.Dec 13 21:31
MinceRyuhong: yeah, we heard it all, win7 is totally new code, not vista at allDec 13 21:31
MinceRyuhong: well, sorry for not listing the thousand names wince has todayDec 13 21:31
yuhongWin7 is not totally new code.Dec 13 21:31
schestowitzIt's not rebranding, it's rebandgingDec 13 21:32
schestowitz[21:31] <yuhong> Win7 is not totally new code.Dec 13 21:32
schestowitzYes, and...Dec 13 21:32
MinceRrelabelingDec 13 21:32
schestowitzIt's enhancements to VIsta Dec 13 21:32
yuhongMany of it do come from Vista, but in most cases there has been changes.Dec 13 21:32
schestowitzOnly they charge for it... againDec 13 21:32
MinceRit's windows nt 6 sp3Dec 13 21:32
yuhongNope, NT 6.1. Dec 13 21:32
schestowitzfee-requiring SPDec 13 21:32
yuhongNope.Dec 13 21:32
yuhongNope, NT 6.1. Dec 13 21:32
schestowitzBugfix release for the $712 alphaDec 13 21:32
MinceRyeah, cite the marketing bullshit over and overDec 13 21:32
yuhongVista SP3 is different.Dec 13 21:32
MinceRwe'll believe you the 9001st time, i promiseDec 13 21:33
MinceR(not)Dec 13 21:33
schestowitzVista still exists?Dec 13 21:33
shreddarIt's service Pack 8 or 7 whateverDec 13 21:33
ender2070windows 7 is very close to vistaDec 13 21:33
yuhongYes.Dec 13 21:33
schestowitzI thought the only ones touching Vista 7 are disgruntled Vista usersDec 13 21:33
schestowitzSurveys showed thisDec 13 21:33
ender2070windows 7 is probably closer to server2008 thoughDec 13 21:33
schestowitzLOLDec 13 21:33
schestowitzServer 2008...Dec 13 21:34
schestowitzVIsta with some tweaksDec 13 21:34
schestowitzLike Ubuntu ServerDec 13 21:34
MinceRnow if it has "server" in the name, you know it's got to be reliable ;)Dec 13 21:34
ender2070people could enable aero in server 2008 and it used less ram and stuff than vistaDec 13 21:34
yuhongYep, Win Server 2008 is the server version of Vista.Dec 13 21:34
schestowitzAnd Vista was Server 2003Dec 13 21:34
MinceRtoo bad you know if it's from m$, it isn't reliableDec 13 21:34
yuhongIt wasn't.Dec 13 21:34
ender2070im looking forward to RHEL 6Dec 13 21:35
yuhongBut do you know that is the name of the server version of Windows 7.Dec 13 21:35
yuhongYep, Server 2008 R2.Dec 13 21:35
burritaaaah, i understand nowDec 13 21:37
burritschestowitz is the clown that wrote the article in the first placeDec 13 21:37
burritlolDec 13 21:37
burriteverything is clear nowDec 13 21:37
yuhonghttp://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1476462&cid=30418756Dec 13 21:37
phIRCe-localTitle: Slashdot Comments | Microsoft Invents Price-Gouging the Least Influential .::. Size~: 36.78 KBDec 13 21:37
yuhongSad schestowitz is not on slashdot.Dec 13 21:37
MinceRslashdot is overratedDec 13 21:38
yuhongWin7 is more similar to Vista than XP.Dec 13 21:38
MinceRwow, really?Dec 13 21:39
*MinceR would have never guessedDec 13 21:39
yuhongBut there has been some significant code and feature changes compared to Vista.Dec 13 21:39
shreddarIt was like that with 98 and 95.Dec 13 21:39
MinceRsureDec 13 21:39
MinceRnew skinDec 13 21:39
MinceRfew new bugfixesDec 13 21:39
MinceRfew new bugsDec 13 21:39
_goblinand new boxDec 13 21:39
MinceRUAC is even more worthless than beforeDec 13 21:40
_goblinits got a new price structure...Dec 13 21:40
ChrisTXwhy that MinceR?Dec 13 21:40
shreddarEveryone complain how it was really just a expensive service pack upgradeDec 13 21:40
yuhongWell, but it is less annoying.Dec 13 21:40
yuhongAnd a few other new features.Dec 13 21:40
MinceRChrisTX: because it has a whitelist based on executable nameDec 13 21:40
ChrisTXwrong.Dec 13 21:40
ChrisTXonly if you enable thatDec 13 21:40
MinceRso all i need to do is put the payload of my virus in, say, notepad.exeDec 13 21:40
ChrisTXyou can set it to a non-whitelist modeDec 13 21:40
MinceRand boom, it gets administrator privileges whenever it asksDec 13 21:40
yuhongOf course, it is far from just a service pack.Dec 13 21:40
ChrisTXand boom, FUDDec 13 21:40
ChrisTXwrongDec 13 21:40
MinceRwow, you can set it up to be only as broken as it was in vistaDec 13 21:40
ChrisTXas I saidDec 13 21:41
MinceRthat's amazingDec 13 21:41
ChrisTXno lolDec 13 21:41
MinceRhuge step ahead!Dec 13 21:41
_goblinIm still looking for all the great unique Windows 7 features that make it worth a purchase.......Dec 13 21:41
MinceR_goblin: it looks more like kde4!Dec 13 21:41
yuhongWhat is funny is UAC at it's core is a clone of sudo.Dec 13 21:41
_goblinbeen testing it for a while now...Dec 13 21:41
MinceRit's a broken clone of sudo, thoughDec 13 21:41
*sebsebseb (n=3seb@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovellDec 13 21:41
sebsebseb Dec 13 21:42
schestowitz[21:41] <_goblin> Im still looking for all the great unique Windows 7 features that make it worth a purchase.......Dec 13 21:42
MinceR Dec 13 21:42
_goblinmaybe these "features" are like easter eggs on DVD's?  Maybe I have to press a certain combination of keys in order to find the hidden extra'sDec 13 21:42
schestowitzThe silence is deafeningDec 13 21:42
sebsebsebMinceR: Dec 13 21:42
yuhongIndeed, UAC in it's Vista version do not have a timer, but that can easily be workaround by apps.Dec 13 21:42
MinceRsebsebseb: Dec 13 21:42
schestowitz Dec 13 21:42
sebsebseb Dec 13 21:42
schestowitz[21:41] <_goblin> Im still looking for all the great unique Windows 7 features that make it worth a purchase.......Dec 13 21:42
schestowitzOpen Source Hardware 2009 < http://www.wired.com/beyond_the_beyond/2009/12/open-source-hardware-2009/ >Dec 13 21:42
sebsebseb Dec 13 21:42
phIRCe-localTitle: Open Source Hardware 2009 | Beyond The Beyond .::. Size~: 65.12 KBDec 13 21:42
_goblin Dec 13 21:42
sebsebseb Dec 13 21:42
yuhongschestowitz: http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1476462&cid=30418756Dec 13 21:42
schestowitzUACv7Dec 13 21:42
phIRCe-localTitle: Slashdot Comments | Microsoft Invents Price-Gouging the Least Influential .::. Size~: 36.78 KBDec 13 21:42
schestowitzUAC: it was My idea. memememe!Dec 13 21:43
schestowitzyuhong: yes, I saw it yesterdayDec 13 21:43
yuhongMS's recent UAC patents on Win7 probably relate to making it less annoying.Dec 13 21:43
sebsebseb_goblin: Dec 13 21:43
MinceRthey did patent UAC, did they not? :)Dec 13 21:43
MinceReven though they did not invent itDec 13 21:43
MinceRtypical m$/crApple conductDec 13 21:43
schestowitzMinceR: it was THEIR ideaDec 13 21:43
yuhongExactly what people complained about UAC in Vista.Dec 13 21:44
schestowitzMaybe they patented the "nuisance" partDec 13 21:44
schestowitz!google microsoft uac designed to annoyDec 13 21:44
phIRCe-local[1] - Vista's UAC security prompt was designed to annoy you | http://arstechnica.com/security/news/2008/04/vistas-uac-security-prompt-was-designed-to-annoy-you.arsDec 13 21:44
phIRCe-local[2] - Microsoft: Vista feature designed to 'annoy users' | Tech News on ... | http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9590_22-197085.htmlDec 13 21:44
phIRCe-local[3] - Slashdot | Microsoft Designed UAC to Annoy Users | http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl%3Fsid%3D08/04/12/006242%26from%3DrssDec 13 21:44
phIRCe-local[4] - Microsoft Exec: UAC Designed To 'Annoy Users' - Software - IT ... | http://www.crn.com/software/207100934Dec 13 21:44
MinceRyeah, now there's a UAC that does nothing to help security, but is still somewhat annoyingDec 13 21:44
yuhongI would not go that far.Dec 13 21:44
shreddarFree and Open Specification Hardware.Dec 13 21:44
MinceRi know you wouldn'tDec 13 21:44
MinceRyou're a m$ apologist.Dec 13 21:44
schestowitzMinceR: noDec 13 21:44
schestowitzI would go that far :-)Dec 13 21:44
MinceR:)Dec 13 21:45
schestowitzhttp://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=82060Dec 13 21:45
yuhongSad that schestowitz do not post on slashdot.Dec 13 21:45
phIRCe-localTitle: French Military Picks Mozilla Email Client Over Microsoft Outlook .::. Size~: 47.54 KBDec 13 21:45
schestowitzOurhosexpressDec 13 21:45
schestowitzyuhong: I used toDec 13 21:45
schestowitzIn 2005 mostlyDec 13 21:45
yuhongWhat is funny is UAC at it's core is a clone of sudo.Dec 13 21:46
schestowitzWhat is funny is Vista  at it's core is a clone of Makos.Dec 13 21:46
ender2070its a shitty clone of sudoDec 13 21:46
schestowitzit's [sic]Dec 13 21:46
yuhongIt isn't.Dec 13 21:46
schestowitzNot at the core, no...Dec 13 21:46
yuhongI am not a MS apologist, BTW.Dec 13 21:46
schestowitzIt's a poor attempt to copy itDec 13 21:46
schestowitzWidgets->GadgetsDec 13 21:47
MinceRwhat is funny is that windows not at it's core is still a bad clone of VMS trying to look like it's a clone of CP/M-86 running a dumbed-down version of OS/2.Dec 13 21:47
yuhongIndeed, UAC in it's Vista version do not have a timer, but that can easily be workaround by apps.Dec 13 21:47
MinceRs/not/nt/Dec 13 21:47
schestowitz!google Microsoft Vista copies OS XDec 13 21:47
phIRCe-local[1] - YouTube - NYT: Did Microsoft rip-off Apple Mac OS X in Windows Vista? | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DMDNuq94Zg_8Dec 13 21:47
phIRCe-local[2] - YouTube - NYT's David Pogue on Windows Vista | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DQT6YO30GhmQDec 13 21:47
phIRCe-local[3] - Windows 7 Copies Mac OS X, Microsoft Employee Says - Redmond soon ... | http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-7-Copies-Mac-OS-X-Microsoft-Employee-Says-126805.shtmlDec 13 21:47
phIRCe-local[4] - Microsoft: We Didn't Copy Mac OS X | Maximum PC | http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/microsoft_we_didnt_copy_mac_os_xDec 13 21:47
ender2070MS always copies AppleDec 13 21:47
yuhongI know, Apple was poking at this at WWDC 2005, I think.Dec 13 21:47
ender2070it was admitted in a documentaryDec 13 21:47
schestowitzender2070: then denies itDec 13 21:47
ender2070Pirates of Silicon ValleyDec 13 21:47
MinceRthey both copy xeroxDec 13 21:48
MinceR(ironic name there)Dec 13 21:48
yuhongI know.Dec 13 21:48
yuhongXerox PARC.Dec 13 21:48
schestowitz"Our friends up north [Microsoft] spend over five billion dollars on research and development and all they seem to do is copy Google and Apple."--Steve Jobs, 2006Dec 13 21:48
ender2070Steve Jobs freaked on Bill for copying, and Bill freaked back saying they stole it from  XeroxDec 13 21:48
yuhongI know, there is a story at folklore.Dec 13 21:48
schestowitzJobs and Gates are not rivalsDec 13 21:49
schestowitzJust elite ego gameDec 13 21:49
schestowitzTHey share many goalsDec 13 21:49
schestowitzAnd they signed dealsDec 13 21:49
schestowitzMany deals in factDec 13 21:49
yuhongI know.Dec 13 21:49
schestowitzTheir threat is commodityDec 13 21:49
MinceRi think "elite" is too good a word for those sociopathic criminals.Dec 13 21:49
schestowitzMinceR: elite is OKDec 13 21:49
schestowitzIt's not a complimentDec 13 21:49
schestowitzNot more than "bankster"Dec 13 21:50
shreddarAccording to Roughlydrafted Steve wasn't even at Apple when Microsoft copied Apple.Dec 13 21:50
yuhongI don't think so, only one is a sociopathic criminals.Dec 13 21:50
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yuhongI know, one of the thing that helped was an agreement Sculley signed with MS about Windows 1.0.Dec 13 21:50
schestowitzJobs and Gates are like politicians from different partiesDec 13 21:50
shreddarOr when Apple signed the contract that bascally gave them permission to copy them.Dec 13 21:50
schestowitzPatting each other on the shoulder after the debateDec 13 21:50
yuhongI know, and Gates is more evil.Dec 13 21:51
schestowitzAssuming they both represent businesses that fund them bothDec 13 21:51
MinceRi'm not sure which is more evilDec 13 21:51
schestowitzThey are just rallying for money and power from the same peopleDec 13 21:51
schestowitzNader would notDec 13 21:51
yuhongI would not go that far.Dec 13 21:51
schestowitzBut he's "irrelavant" to elite interests... same as Kucinich and PaulDec 13 21:51
yuhongGates is more evil.Dec 13 21:51
schestowitzyuhong: I would go that far! :-)DDec 13 21:51
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schestowitz"Evil" does not mean muchDec 13 21:52
schestowitzIt's a wordDec 13 21:52
schestowitzIt does not decribe behaviourDec 13 21:52
schestowitzJust some vague adjectiveDec 13 21:52
schestowitzGreedy means moreDec 13 21:52
schestowitzMegalomanical maybweDec 13 21:52
schestowitz"Evil" is a word that's used to dismiss criticsDec 13 21:53
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schestowitz"he thinks I'm evil!"Dec 13 21:53
yuhongYep, remember that when you see claims that Google is "evil".Dec 13 21:53
schestowitz"This irrational hater says Microsoft is evil"Dec 13 21:53
schestowitzNo-one says that, you see?Dec 13 21:53
shreddarGenghis Khan is more evil than Stalin.Dec 13 21:53
yuhongI know, one of the thing that helped was an agreement Sculley signed with MS about Windows 1.0.Dec 13 21:53
yuhongYep, remember that when you see claims that Google is "evil".Dec 13 21:53
schestowitzIf one explain a crime of Microsoft, then it means Microsoft is a criminalDec 13 21:53
shreddarMothra is more evil than GodzillaDec 13 21:53
schestowitzThe apologists will say something, "he thinks people at Microsoft are evil"Dec 13 21:53
yuhongYep.Dec 13 21:53
schestowitzTricky techniqueDec 13 21:54
yuhongYep, remember that when you see claims that Google is "evil".Dec 13 21:54
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schestowitzyuhong: I see it a lot recentlyDec 13 21:54
MinceRfans of evil are trying to strip the word "evil" of its meaning.Dec 13 21:54
schestowitzI have a post about it tomorrowDec 13 21:54
schestowitzAnd it's clear where it comes from Dec 13 21:54
*Balrog is now known as Guest46491Dec 13 21:55
schestowitzJoe Wilcox ( _goblin's 'friend') and chuimsDec 13 21:55
schestowitz*chumsDec 13 21:55
yuhongOne of the most famous deals with MS was when Apple decided to bundle IE with Mac OS.Dec 13 21:55
yuhongBut it was not as bad as the IE 4 desktop update.Dec 13 21:55
schestowitzMinceR: they have already killed "open"Dec 13 21:55
schestowitz"Open XML"Dec 13 21:55
MinceRindeedDec 13 21:55
yuhongApple even kept Netscape.Dec 13 21:56
yuhongYea also notice the similarities between "Office Open XML" and OpenOffice.Dec 13 21:56
schestowitzhttp://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/184541/google_releases_experimental_phone_to_employees.htmlDec 13 21:56
phIRCe-localTitle: Google Releases Experimental Phone to Employees - PC World Business Center .::. Size~: 61.17 KBDec 13 21:56
schestowitzEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil IvanDec 13 21:56
schestowitzyuhong: yes, I wrote about thatDec 13 21:56
schestowitzThey did the same vs PalmDec 13 21:56
shreddarI think the phone is just a design that they want OEMs to use.Dec 13 21:57
yuhongYep, Palm had to file a trademark suit to change it to "Palm-sized PC"Dec 13 21:57
schestowitzhttp://globalvoicesonline.org/2009/12/03/bangladesh-india-arrest-of-ulfa-chairman/Dec 13 21:57
phIRCe-localTitle: Global Voices Online  » Bangladesh, India: Arrest OF ULFA Chairman .::. Size~: 105.36 KBDec 13 21:57
schestowitzEeeeeevilDec 13 21:57
schestowitz:-)Dec 13 21:57
shreddarSimular to Chrome OS designed hardware.Dec 13 21:58
shreddarThey want to tell OEM how to make a Android 2.0 phone.Dec 13 21:58
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shreddarI really doubt they will start selling phones.Dec 13 22:00
Will_http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/12/12/1942207/Microsoft-Invents-Price-Gouging-the-Least-Influential?art_pos=18Dec 13 22:00
phIRCe-localTitle: Slashdot Your Rights Online Story | Microsoft Invents Price-Gouging the Least Influential .::. Size~: 156.39 KBDec 13 22:00
yuhongYep, I already cited a comment.Dec 13 22:00
schestowitzNeat: http://home.arcor.de/axel.mellinger/Dec 13 22:01
phIRCe-localTitle: All-Sky Milky Way Panorama 2.0 .::. Size~: 13.04 KBDec 13 22:01
schestowitzWill_: yes, seen itDec 13 22:01
Will_ok.  late to the party on that one.Dec 13 22:01
_goblinschestowitz: Joe Wilcox my friend?Dec 13 22:01
schestowitzWhat's so special about it?Dec 13 22:01
MinceRgoogle gets into hw design? it will be just as great when they started making applications :>Dec 13 22:01
schestowitzMicrosoft makes another anti-'consumer' patents?Dec 13 22:01
schestowitz*tentDec 13 22:01
schestowitz_goblin: scare quotesDec 13 22:02
_goblinwhere?Dec 13 22:02
schestowitzBut you encouraged him by hanging around thereDec 13 22:02
Will_nothing special.  Just makes me wonder what they are smoking.  But that's getting more and more common by the year.Dec 13 22:02
schestowitzTHey just need to increase patent countDec 13 22:02
schestowitzIt's quantity, not quality to themDec 13 22:02
schestowitzThey want to come to companies for racketeering purposesDec 13 22:03
_goblinI think Jo (whatever his bias) was very good for highlighting the benefits of Linux...he allowed MS Watch to turn into a Linux advocate site for a while.Dec 13 22:03
schestowitzAnd then say a number like "10,000 patents"Dec 13 22:03
schestowitz"Just don't bother checking /WHAT/ patents"Dec 13 22:03
_goblinand if you look back at those threads, they did nothing but put Linux and FOSS in its true good light.Dec 13 22:03
schestowitzMicrosoft is a racket operation and it should be shut down where there is interest in scienceDec 13 22:03
schestowitz_goblin: well, one of the Microsoft Nicks is in change nowDec 13 22:04
schestowitzAlmost no-one participates nowDec 13 22:04
schestowitzNot even Mr Dee Costa BoyDec 13 22:04
shreddarMicrosoft will bow before my mighty science!Dec 13 22:04
Will_I don't recall Jo doing any censoring, except once or twice to clean up some unruly conduct that got really out of hand, including impersonating Jo.Dec 13 22:04
*Guest46491 is now known as BalrogDec 13 22:05
schestowitz>YeahDec 13 22:05
_goblinI think the "death" of MS watch came when moderating of comments started.Dec 13 22:05
Will_And you can guess which side that conduct came fromDec 13 22:05
schestowitzBack in the 90s he wrote some MS-hostile stuff tooDec 13 22:05
schestowitzHe's not entuirely PRDec 13 22:05
_goblinI don't necessarily think it was because Joe Wilcox left.Dec 13 22:05
_goblinI am sure he was let go because the site became toxic (for MS)Dec 13 22:05
schestowitz_goblin: Ziff Davis rtightened the relationship with MicrosoftDec 13 22:06
schestowitzSOme Linux writers left/were pushed out tooDec 13 22:06
schestowitzSJVN for exampleDec 13 22:06
Will_well, the "MS faithful" brought that on themselves there, as _goblin and I saw.Dec 13 22:06
schestowitz"Microsoft is now a software company, it's a religion..."Dec 13 22:07
MinceRs/now/not/Dec 13 22:07
schestowitz>"Microsoft allowed us to [remove Internet Explorer from Windows] but we don't think we should have to ask permission every time we want to make some minor software modification. Windows is an operating system, not a religion." --Dec 13 22:07
schestowitzGateway Computer Chairman Ted Waitt</font>Dec 13 22:07
schestowitz</p>Dec 13 22:07
MinceRcrApple and adobe are religions tooDec 13 22:07
schestowitzCultsDec 13 22:07
MinceRindeedDec 13 22:07
Will_MS should really stay away from science.  Their whole ethos seems contradictory to the spirit of scientific investigation and dissemination of information.Dec 13 22:08
yuhongI know.Dec 13 22:08
schestowitzhttp://www.cultofmac.com/Dec 13 22:08
phIRCe-localTitle: Cult of Mac | The Mac, the iPod, the iPhone - and the people who love them .::. Size~: 58.02 KBDec 13 22:08
yuhongI know.Dec 13 22:08
schestowitzCompre to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ScientologyDec 13 22:08
phIRCe-localTitle: Scientology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 445.66 KBDec 13 22:08
shreddarApple a religion too so was OS/2 and other computer standardsDec 13 22:08
schestowitzApple realised it...Dec 13 22:09
schestowitzWith KAwasaki and all....Dec 13 22:09
shreddarBack when there was variety.Dec 13 22:09
schestowitzThat it needed to create a cult to succeedDec 13 22:09
schestowitzPeople who identify with some stupid logosDec 13 22:09
schestowitzAnd vain personas like that rubbish dude from Mac adsDec 13 22:09
schestowitzSome people are like that with LinuxDec 13 22:10
schestowitzFascination with penguins and Linus...Dec 13 22:10
shreddarOh yeah tuxDec 13 22:10
schestowitzThey need to think without logos and 'Gods'... and more about their rightsDec 13 22:10
shreddarI forgot about himDec 13 22:10
shreddarI think Linux's logo should've been a frogDec 13 22:10
schestowitz"Linux is a registered trademarks of Linus Torvalds"Dec 13 22:11
schestowitz /marks/mark/Dec 13 22:11
schestowitzshreddar: can't beDec 13 22:11
shreddarand it should have call LofoageDec 13 22:11
schestowitzThat would infringe on the Ballmer logoDec 13 22:11
MinceRshreddar: huh?Dec 13 22:11
yuhongI know.Dec 13 22:11
shreddarGnu/LofoageDec 13 22:11
schestowitz!google ballmer leaps youtbeDec 13 22:11
phIRCe-local[1] - YouTube - Ballmer | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DNc4MzqBFxZEDec 13 22:11
phIRCe-local[2] - I'm a PC, I'm a Mac, but checkout LINUX! - Unix Linux Forum ... | http://fixunix.com/linux/557328-im-pc-im-mac-but-checkout-linux.htmlDec 13 22:11
phIRCe-local[3] - Yahoo Shares Leap on Talks News. Microsoft? Not So Much. | Kara ... | http://kara.allthingsd.com/20090413/yahoo-shares-leap-on-talks-news-microsoft-not-so-much/Dec 13 22:11
phIRCe-local[4] - Tech-Ex: Apple Laptop Sales Leap During Back-to-School Season | http://technologyexpert.blogspot.com/2008/10/apple-laptop-sales-leap-during-back-to.htmlDec 13 22:11
yuhongLinus finally got the trademark after a fight.Dec 13 22:11
*MinceR thinks there's a joke he's missingDec 13 22:11
shreddarWith a cute little frog mascotDec 13 22:12
shreddarcall LoffyDec 13 22:12
shreddarcalledDec 13 22:12
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schestowitzMOG on MySQL and the Microsoft line supporters http://xml.sys-con.com/node/1218753Dec 13 22:13
phIRCe-localTitle: MySQL Creator Wants War with Oracle | XML Journal .::. Size~: 124.13 KBDec 13 22:13
*Will_ has quit ("Page closed")Dec 13 22:13
schestowitzSurprise, surprise...Dec 13 22:13
yuhongI wonder if things would have been better if Monty had more control over the original company.Dec 13 22:14
yuhongYep, that is exactly what I was going to discuss.Dec 13 22:14
yuhonghttp://developers.slashdot.org/story/09/12/13/1530211/Widenius-Warns-Against-MySQL-Falling-Into-Oracles-HandsDec 13 22:15
phIRCe-localTitle: Slashdot Developers Story | Widenius Warns Against MySQL Falling Into Oracle's Hands .::. Size~: 148.75 KBDec 13 22:15
yuhongExactly what I am reading.Dec 13 22:15
yuhongI wonder if things would have been better if Monty had more control over the original company.Dec 13 22:15
yuhonghttp://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1476830&cid=30425568Dec 13 22:15
phIRCe-localTitle: Slashdot Comments | Widenius Warns Against MySQL Falling Into Oracle's Hands .::. Size~: 38.25 KBDec 13 22:15
schestowitzhttp://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20091203006412&newsLang=enDec 13 22:18
phIRCe-localTitle: Artifex Software Files Copyright Infringement Lawsuit Against Palm, Inc. | Business Wire .::. Size~: 53.71 KBDec 13 22:18
schestowitzDid you hear about Palm and 'their' network being sued for data loss too?Dec 13 22:18
yuhongRead that on slashdot as well.Dec 13 22:18
schestowitzLike a mino-sidekick]Dec 13 22:18
schestowitzyuhong: na, I'm staying out of SlashdotrDec 13 22:19
schestowitz /. does xss with fsdn.comDec 13 22:20
schestowitzI'd leave my excellent karma in tact, too http://slashdot.org/~schestowitzDec 13 22:21
phIRCe-localTitle: Slashdot - News for nerds, stuff that matters .::. Size~: 107.33 KBDec 13 22:21
schestowitzhttp://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/EtherPad-to-become-open-source-as-Google-changes-plans-878426.htmlDec 13 22:22
phIRCe-localTitle: EtherPad to become open source as Google changes plans - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 32.16 KBDec 13 22:22
schestowitzI didn't know just how much personal info on activity /. had decided to give away after overhaul... hmmmmmmm.....Dec 13 22:22
shreddarhttp://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DNc4MzqBFxZEDec 13 22:23
shreddar Come on , shake your body baby, do the conga I know you can't control yourself any longer Come on , shake your body baby, do the conga I know you can't control yourself any longerDec 13 22:23
yuhongslashdot claims that:Dec 13 22:23
yuhong"What do I see loading from fsdn.com?Dec 13 22:23
yuhongThat's our new image server."Dec 13 22:23
yuhonghttp://slashdot.org/faq/tech.shtmlDec 13 22:23
phIRCe-localTitle: Slashdot FAQ - Tech .::. Size~: 32.47 KBDec 13 22:23
schestowitzshreddar: they do crack at RedmondDec 13 22:24
schestowitz!google crack redmondDec 13 22:24
phIRCe-local[1] - Companies Get Free Crack at Windows 7 Enterprise -- Redmondmag.com | http://redmondmag.com/Blogs/Lee-Pender/2009/09/Companies-Get-Crack-at-Windows-7-Enterprise.aspxDec 13 22:24
phIRCe-local[2] - Week in Microsoft: Pirates crack Windows 7, Redmond counters | http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/08/week-in-microsoft-pirates-crack-windows-7-redmond-counters.arsDec 13 22:24
phIRCe-local[3] - Windows 7 Ultimate Activation Crack | Redmond Pie | http://www.redmondpie.com/windows-7-ultimate-activation-crack/Dec 13 22:24
phIRCe-local[4] - Channel Gets a Crack at Windows 7 -- Redmond Developer News | http://reddevnews.com/articles/2009/02/04/channel-gets-a-crack-at-windows-7.aspxDec 13 22:24
schestowitzSee?Dec 13 22:25
schestowitzThere's crack in VIsta 7, too!Dec 13 22:25
schestowitzMaybe Steve was sniffing it too muchDec 13 22:25
yuhongI know, piracy and WGA.Dec 13 22:25
ChrisTXlol these 'cracks' are nothing but a modded GRUB4DOS to emulate the ACPI SLIC tables OEM activation checks forDec 13 22:26
schestowitzHow about those cracks that delete the MBR?Dec 13 22:27
schestowitzALong with that virus called "Linux32"?Dec 13 22:27
schestowitzThese wonderful Microsoft dudes... they think of EVERYTHING!Dec 13 22:27
MinceRyeah, it isn't fair to emulate ACPI SLIC tablesDec 13 22:28
MinceRanything but that!Dec 13 22:28
schestowitzThey foresee threats to their OS and respond to itDec 13 22:28
ChrisTXin fact MS could block that, but that would require OEMs to use stupid retail activationDec 13 22:29
schestowitzCool: http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/12/10/stealth-startup-relaxed-raises-2-million-from-redpoint-ventures-for-couchdb-support/Dec 13 22:29
phIRCe-localTitle:   Stealth Startup Relaxed Raises $2 Million From Redpoint Ventures For CouchDB Support  .::. Size~: 66.85 KBDec 13 22:29
ChrisTXand as 95% of all windows are sold per OEM channelDec 13 22:29
ChrisTXthis is not wanted by MSDec 13 22:29
MinceR"stupid" is redundant thereDec 13 22:29
MinceRactivation is stupidDec 13 22:29
yuhongYep, SLP, invented in Windows XP.Dec 13 22:29
schestowitzUbuntu One uses a lot of CouchDB Dec 13 22:29
schestowitzIt's a document-oriented DBDec 13 22:29
MinceRit's just like all other forms of DRM and copy protectionDec 13 22:29
schestowitzVery suitable for high scaleDec 13 22:29
schestowitzMinceR: I have activation tooDec 13 22:30
MinceRinconvenience most legal users, provide an interesting challenge to someone to crack once, not inconvenience those who copy it illegally.Dec 13 22:30
schestowitzIt's a round button with a led behind itDec 13 22:30
MinceRlolDec 13 22:30
shreddarWOW, last I check it was 80% I can't.Dec 13 22:30
shreddarbelive it.Dec 13 22:30
schestowitzYes, 80%Dec 13 22:30
schestowitzI think MS says soDec 13 22:30
schestowitzThat 80% of licences are sold to OEMsDec 13 22:31
schestowitzAnd forced upon sheepleDec 13 22:31
ChrisTX80% OEMs then?Dec 13 22:31
schestowitzhttp://www.ubuntu.com/news/bazaar-commercial-support-and-trainingDec 13 22:31
phIRCe-localTitle: Canonical announces commercial services for its version control system, Bazaar | Ubuntu .::. Size~: 13.43 KBDec 13 22:31
ChrisTXwell I don't know exactlyDec 13 22:31
ChrisTXthe vast majority howeverDec 13 22:31
schestowitzIt's good, ain't it?Dec 13 22:32
shreddarOh you were just guessingDec 13 22:32
schestowitzThey just need to bribe some CEOs of companiesDec 13 22:32
schestowitzNot usersDec 13 22:32
schestowitz!google dell intel kickbacksDec 13 22:32
phIRCe-local[1] - Dell facing investor lawsuit over shady Intel kickbacks -- Engadget | http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/03/dell-facing-investor-lawsuit-over-shady-intel-kickbacks/Dec 13 22:32
phIRCe-local[2] - Intel Faces Antitrust Lawsuit, Kickbacks Alleged — Datamation.com | http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/cnews/article.php/3847056/Intel-Faces-Antitrust-Lawsuit-Kickbacks-Alleged.htmDec 13 22:32
phIRCe-local[3] - NY attorney general Cuomo files antitrust suit against Intel - Nov ... | http://money.cnn.com/2009/11/04/technology/cuomo_sues_intel_antitrust/index.htm%3Fcnn%3DyesDec 13 22:32
phIRCe-local[4] - Intel hit by NY antitrust suit, kickbacks alleged: Thomson Reuters ... | http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/article.aspx%3FFeed%3DOBR%26Date%3D20091104%26ID%3D10644658%26Symbol%3DDELLDec 13 22:32
schestowitzhttp://www.redhat.com/about/news/prarchive/2009/spice-os.htmlDec 13 22:32
phIRCe-localTitle: redhat.com | The World's Open Source Leader .::. Size~: 21.32 KBDec 13 22:32
schestowitzDell is Pal (just slide fat dollaz' under the table)Dec 13 22:33
schestowitzIMHO, Michael Dell should be sent to criminal prosection and Ottelini tooDec 13 22:33
schestowitzBut they live in a land that glorifies -- not scrutinises-- the businessmen who 'own' the countryDec 13 22:34
yuhongI know.Dec 13 22:34
yuhongAnd I certainly agree about Ottelini.Dec 13 22:35
schestowitzRacketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rico_actDec 13 22:35
phIRCe-localTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KBDec 13 22:35
schestowitzSeems to be forgotten by nowDec 13 22:35
schestowitzCause this is more 'important'Dec 13 22:36
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_lawDec 13 22:36
phIRCe-localTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KBDec 13 22:36
schestowitzKeep people impotent and powerlessDec 13 22:36
schestowitzGeorge Obama.. more of the same sadlyDec 13 22:37
schestowitz!google obama renew patriotDec 13 22:37
phIRCe-local[1] - Obama: Renew Patriot Surveillances | http://thedailybell.com/614/Obama-Renew-Patriot-Surveillances.htmlDec 13 22:37
phIRCe-local[2] - Obama Quietly Backs Renewing Patriot Act Surveillance Provisions ... | http://www.alternet.org/rights/144170/obama_quietly_backs_renewing_patriot_act_surveillance_provisions/Dec 13 22:37
phIRCe-local[3] - Obama Quietly Backs Patriot Act Provisions | CommonDreams.org | http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/11/23-6Dec 13 22:37
phIRCe-local[4] - Obama Backs Extending Patriot Act Spy Provisions | Threat Level ... | http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/09/obama-backs-expiring-patriot-act-spy-provisions/Dec 13 22:37
yuhongI knowDec 13 22:38
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schestowitzhttp://www.sutor.com/newsite/drupal/2010eventsDec 13 22:38
phIRCe-localTitle: 2010 Linux and Open Source Events | Bob Sutor .::. Size~: 20.21 KBDec 13 22:38
schestowitzThe Republic of -China- USADec 13 22:38
schestowitzSadly, againDec 13 22:38
schestowitzAnd the UK follows the USDec 13 22:38
schestowitzBasically, once a law passes in the US, it son extendsDec 13 22:39
schestowitzDMCA, ACTA, etc.Dec 13 22:39
schestowitzSo we suffer tooDec 13 22:39
schestowitz /son/soon/Dec 13 22:39
yuhongI know.Dec 13 22:39
schestowitzhttp://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5B91G020091210?type=technologyNewsDec 13 22:39
shreddarWhat did you expect? A non-corrupt government that looks after the interest of it's citizens?Dec 13 22:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] If you post about good experiences of Linux, you should read this. http://www.multinombres.com.ar/gpage.html #foss #linux #windows #vistaDec 13 22:40
schestowitzEven France could not resist... they elected this clown called Sarko to make his people slaves of other cultures that put money ahead of cultureDec 13 22:40
schestowitzshreddar: some have been more successfulDec 13 22:40
schestowitzScandinavian countries for instanceDec 13 22:41
schestowitzThere's less federal unrest in Norway, for obvious reasonsDec 13 22:41
schestowitzAnd they are less densely populatedDec 13 22:41
schestowitzhttp://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20091210006062&newsLang=enDec 13 22:41
phIRCe-localTitle: Linus Torvalds Accepts DRBD into Linux Kernel | Business Wire .::. Size~: 51.41 KBDec 13 22:41
Diablo-D3yeah that doesnt really mean anythingDec 13 22:42
yuhonghttp://hardware.slashdot.org/story/09/12/12/0114248/860-Million-In-Fines-Handed-Out-For-LCD-Price-FixingDec 13 22:42
Diablo-D3drbd is absolute crap and shouldnt be usedDec 13 22:42
phIRCe-localTitle: Slashdot Hardware Story | $860 Million In Fines Handed Out For LCD Price-Fixing .::. Size~: 144.03 KBDec 13 22:42
schestowitzWhere does the money go?Dec 13 22:44
schestowitzRefunds for screwed buyers?Dec 13 22:44
schestowitzOr lawyers and diplomats?Dec 13 22:44
schestowitzAnd more importantly, how many execs go to prison?Dec 13 22:45
schestowitzOops. Sorry, I forgot. Prisons cells are built for hungry shoplifters, not the criminals that detroy the world more than anyone else, including the harm to hungry people who must then shoplift :-)Dec 13 22:45
yuhong" Additionally, nine executives have been charged to date in the department's ongoing investigation. “Dec 13 22:46
yuhong"What's even worse are the cases where they get a free pass by paying the class action settlement, like the Google book deal."Dec 13 22:48
yuhonghttp://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1475942&cid=30410552Dec 13 22:48
yuhong"Current copyright laws are awful but one private company essentially ceasing it is even more awful.“Dec 13 22:48
phIRCe-localTitle: Slashdot Comments | $860 Million In Fines Handed Out For LCD Price-Fixing .::. Size~: 44.1 KBDec 13 22:48
yuhongIn fact, this thread is exactly about what you call "funny money":Dec 13 22:52
yuhonghttp://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1475942&cid=30410304Dec 13 22:52
phIRCe-localTitle: Slashdot Comments | $860 Million In Fines Handed Out For LCD Price-Fixing .::. Size~: 54.41 KBDec 13 22:52
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schestowitzhttp://ostatic.com/blog/research-shows-foss-bugs-get-rapid-response-commercial-software-not-so-muchDec 13 22:54
phIRCe-localTitle:  Research Shows FOSS Bugs Get Rapid Response, Commercial Software Not So Much  .::. Size~: 37.88 KBDec 13 22:54
schestowitzBad headlineDec 13 22:54
schestowitz"proprietarry", not "commercial"Dec 13 22:55
yuhongI know.Dec 13 22:57
schestowitzhttp://savannah.gnu.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=6077Dec 13 22:59
phIRCe-localTitle: Automake - News: GNU Automake 1.11.1 and 1.10.3 released, with security fix [Savannah] .::. Size~: 15.73 KBDec 13 22:59
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*schestowitz watches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN46a_PjKFMDec 13 23:08
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yuhongI think PR 2.0 ethics is going to be an important topic.Dec 13 23:13
yuhongFor example, is it ethical to spy on bloggers?Dec 13 23:14
yuhonghttp://www.slideshare.net/michaelocc/the-ethics-of-social-media-pr-presentationDec 13 23:14
phIRCe-localTitle: The Ethics Of Social Media PR .::. Size~: 51.96 KBDec 13 23:14
yuhonghttp://www.briansolis.com/2009/02/media-20-workgroup-announces-best/Dec 13 23:15
phIRCe-localTitle: Media 2.0 Workgroup Announces Best Practices | Brian Solis - PR 2.0 .::. Size~: 32.76 KBDec 13 23:15
yuhongI think it depends on the actions done after spying. What Comcast seems to have been done is just post a comment under a real name.Dec 13 23:16
yuhongLast time I checked.Dec 13 23:17
yuhongOn the other hand, posting using fake names would be astroturfing.Dec 13 23:17
yuhonghttp://www.deirdrebreakenridge.com/2009/03/pr-20-culture-%E2%80%93-the-sociology-and-anthropology-of-pr/Dec 13 23:18
phIRCe-localTitle: PR 2.0 Culture – The Sociology and Anthropology of PR | Deirdre Breakenridge .::. Size~: 72.2 KBDec 13 23:18
yuhonghttp://guerrilla-viral-marketing.suite101.com/article.cfm/twitter_ethics_for_businessDec 13 23:18
phIRCe-localTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBDec 13 23:18
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yuhonghttp://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1474792&cid=30399344Dec 13 23:23
phIRCe-localTitle: Slashdot Comments | Microsoft Expands exFAT Multimedia Licensing .::. Size~: 42.75 KBDec 13 23:23
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ender2070sounded like linus was pissed that nouveau wasn't submittedDec 13 23:29
ender2070which is why its in 2.6.33Dec 13 23:29
ender2070http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnzvtfGnGtIDec 13 23:35
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ender2070aseigo has a bit of a tom green lookDec 13 23:46
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shreddarI'd like electronic companies (Toshiba, Sony, Panasonic, Sanyo etc.) to make their own Browser Based devices.Dec 13 23:56
shreddarAnd they would have local storage you could use.Dec 13 23:57
schestowitzender2070: yeah, h doesDec 13 23:58

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