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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: January 5th, 2010

cubezzzmore research neededJan 05 00:00
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #MySQL #Database Petition Grows Large 05 00:03
phIRCe-localTitle: Monty's 'Save MySQL' mudsling gets 15,000 backers • The Register .::. Size~: 27.87 KBJan 05 00:03
phIRCe-localTitle: Thousands sign petition against Oracle’s ownership of MySQL .::. Size~: 45.71 KBJan 05 00:03
oiaohmReally Monty can go jump.   Major thing he does not like about Oracle aquiring it is that the GPL licence will prevent anyone making profit by making a closed source version.Jan 05 00:05
oiaohmIf it was lack of features issues.  GPL is perfectly forkable.Jan 05 00:05
MinceR<@Gargamale> wordJan 05 00:06
MinceR<mademoiselle> excelJan 05 00:06
MinceR<+fiveiron> powerpointJan 05 00:06
MinceR<+fiveiron> By your powers combined, I'm an overpriced office suite!Jan 05 00:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware Among Top Predictions for This Year 05 00:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #IBM Speaks About #FreeSoftware , a Top Job Skill These Days 05 00:06
phIRCe-localTitle: Print Story .::. Size~: 14.03 KBJan 05 00:06
phIRCe-localTitle: Outlook 2010 IT skills checklist: The vertical climb ( - Internet - Software - Hardware Systems - Security - Industry Verticals - Government - Networking - Applications ) .::. Size~: 49.36 KBJan 05 00:06
phIRCe-localTitle: IBM software sticks to the plan for 2010 | Business Tech - CNET News .::. Size~: 84.34 KBJan 05 00:06
phIRCe-localTitle: Specialist IT recruitment agency CV Screen celebrates 10 years of recruiting success | Response Source .::. Size~: 19.18 KBJan 05 00:06
schestowitzIt's a worm spreader, not just an office suiteJan 05 00:09
cubezzzgood to know Sony's DRM isn't compatible with KindleJan 05 00:09
cubezzzI guess all these ebook readers use DRMJan 05 00:09
schestowitzLinux doesn't just execute arbitrary thingsJan 05 00:10
schestowitzcubezzz: you can do PDF and text tooJan 05 00:10
schestowitzBut the dummies will buy "A BookJan 05 00:10
schestowitzThey don't know what DRM isJan 05 00:10
schestowitzPeople I speak to who are not in computing have no clue DRM existsJan 05 00:10
cubezzzthat's a little surprisingJan 05 00:11
oiaohmYes I get them all the time until they lose there data.Jan 05 00:11
*boola is now known as neighborleeJan 05 00:11
schestowitzA lot of people out there rely on others being naiveJan 05 00:11
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, they only then understandJan 05 00:11
schestowitzBut they can't name itJan 05 00:11
cubezzzyes, I dont' buy $5 hot chocolate from Starbucks :)Jan 05 00:12
schestowitzSo they might not know how to avoid recurrenceJan 05 00:12
cubezzzI have some brainsJan 05 00:12
schestowitzIf you drink there, then you're posh, cubezzzJan 05 00:12
schestowitzThat's why sheep buy Apple-labelled stuffJan 05 00:12
schestowitzEven garbage like their server and TV 'products'Jan 05 00:12
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MinceRthey have non-garbage products too?Jan 05 00:13
schestowitzApple markets computers like P&G markets toothpasteJan 05 00:13
schestowitzMinceR: they sell imagesJan 05 00:13
schestowitzThey sell lifestyleJan 05 00:13
oiaohm 05 00:13
phIRCe-localTitle: Activate Windows 7's Hidden 'God Mode' .::. Size~: 21.37 KBJan 05 00:13
schestowitzThen they embody these (e.g. dude in jeans) using some Foxconn wares with Apple logo... y'know, like in the adsJan 05 00:13
schestowitzThe branding-obsessed society is scaryJan 05 00:14
oiaohmMS loves hidding features.Jan 05 00:14
cubezzzI'm past that now :)Jan 05 00:14
schestowitz"Change", "You're worth it", "Join the navy", "Hope"...Jan 05 00:14
MinceRas much as an entire lifestyle can be composed of buying and showing shiny crapJan 05 00:14
cubezzzbut I admit I do buy Tyan motherboardsJan 05 00:14
MinceRs/showing/showing off/Jan 05 00:14
cubezzzyou can't say the quality of everything is uniformJan 05 00:14
schestowitzTyan is OKJan 05 00:14
schestowitzWhat's wrong with them?Jan 05 00:15
schestowitzBetter than Apple Hardware (Tyrant)Jan 05 00:15
cubezzznothing, that's why I buy them :-0Jan 05 00:15
oiaohmTyan motherboards have a history of being 3 to 4 years ahead of everyone else in construction tech.Jan 05 00:15
oiaohmTyan was the first to use solid stat caps so not having them blow up.Jan 05 00:15
cubezzzexcellentJan 05 00:15
schestowitzThe underware bomber could just as well wear an iPod.... that would burst up in flamesJan 05 00:16
schestowitzThe iPod would work better evenJan 05 00:16
cubezzzprobably why this board I use is still working after 11 yearsJan 05 00:16
schestowitziPods draw less suspicionJan 05 00:16
MinceRhypePod explosives have unpredictable timingJan 05 00:16
schestowitzAnd they explode right out of the factoryJan 05 00:16
MinceRat least on their ownJan 05 00:16
schestowitzI can envision this:Jan 05 00:16
schestowitzNext time someone with an iPod has an explosion in the plane people will jump on him or an air marshal shoot her/himJan 05 00:17
oiaohmAlso tyan have been known for working out how to make the chipset run as cold as able.  That equals way longer life.Jan 05 00:17
oiaohmBasically Tyan are not stupid.Jan 05 00:17
schestowitzMinceR: iPod explosions are set to rand();Jan 05 00:17
schestowitzthe shuffle is like a fire crackersJan 05 00:18
schestowitzYou cajn find them in 'flavours'Jan 05 00:18
oiaohmgigabyte in recent years in quality have caught up a bit on tyans.Jan 05 00:18
oiaohmI really wonder how long before a bomber uses shorted batteries.Jan 05 00:18
MinceR 05 00:19
phIRCe-localTitle: Slashdot Your Rights Online Story | INTERPOL Granted Diplomatic Immunity In the US .::. Size~: 139.34 KBJan 05 00:19
MinceRschestowitz: but only in fruity flavorsJan 05 00:19
schestowitzWorms?Jan 05 00:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Tips for Getting #FreeSoftware Used in Business 05 00:20
phIRCe-localTitle: Linux News: Community: More Than 10 Ways to Get FOSS Past the Boss .::. Size~: 56.69 KBJan 05 00:20
oiaohmdiplomatic immunity is a funny thing.Jan 05 00:21
MinceRit would be funnier if it couldn't be used against me or to gain advantage on meJan 05 00:21
oiaohmdiplomatic immunity means the laws of the country you are in don't apply.  But the laws of your home country do apply.Jan 05 00:21
MinceRwhich local law enforcement doesn't knowJan 05 00:21
MinceRso you can do whatever you wantJan 05 00:21
oiaohmReally it depends on what you do.Jan 05 00:22
oiaohmIf you kill someone you can be sure diplomatic immunity will not get you far unless it was approved.Jan 05 00:22
oiaohmSince killing anyone will make it to your home country.Jan 05 00:22
oiaohmAlso when you do use diplomatic immunity to get out of a crime that is ment to equal reporting upstream.  Jan 05 00:23
oiaohmSome local law enforcement is stupid.Jan 05 00:24
MinceRsome? :>Jan 05 00:24
oiaohmHere in Australia claim diplomatic immunity will be a embency call then possible to the country it self own law enforcement if it is a repeat offence.Jan 05 00:24
oiaohmSo its not much help claiming diplomatic immunity.Jan 05 00:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Summary of #SCO 's Case Against... Itself 05 00:25
phIRCe-localTitle: Groklaw - SCO's IP Rights After Distributing UnitedLinux Under the GPL .::. Size~: 139.79 KBJan 05 00:25
oiaohmdiplomatic immunity also does not prevent visa from being revoked and kicked out country either MinceRJan 05 00:25
oiaohmBasically all it really means is that Interpol people will not have to spend time in USA jails.Jan 05 00:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Apple Abuse with #DRM , #DMCA Still a Nightmare 05 00:26
phIRCe-localTitle: A look at Apple's love for DRM and consumer lock-ins .::. Size~: 40.39 KBJan 05 00:26
phIRCe-localTitle: Tough To Punish Those Who File Bogus DMCA Takedowns | Techdirt .::. Size~: 43.81 KBJan 05 00:26
MinceR...for doing stuff that would land usian citizens and even usian law enforcement (including the FBI) in prison.Jan 05 00:27
MinceRit's not like diplomatic immunity is the only way to avoid being thrown into jail.Jan 05 00:27
MinceR(even if only because there isn't enough space in jail :> )Jan 05 00:28
oiaohmdiplomatic immunity does not stop you from being kicked out country.Jan 05 00:28
oiaohmIt only pevents jail time in country.Jan 05 00:28
oiaohmBasically breaking the laws to the point that would threw FBI in prision would be great enough to cause person to be booted out country and have to give there boss a please explain why you were so stupid.Jan 05 00:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Censorship Backfired in #Australia , Proceeds in #China , #Kazakhstan 05 00:30
oiaohmEven after being booted out since you have diplomatic immunity ever crime you commit is classed as being commited in your home country.Jan 05 00:31
oiaohmever/everyJan 05 00:31
oiaohmSo yep banned from a country for ever and having to answer to your own law not fun.Jan 05 00:31
MinceRso basically your point is that the interpol guys break laws so often that they had to be given a blanket diplomatic immunity so that instead of filling the jails in Jesusland they could be jailed in their respective home countries? :>Jan 05 00:31
oiaohmMost likely yes MinceR.Jan 05 00:32
oiaohmJailing a person costs money.Jan 05 00:32
oiaohmThat USA really does not have.Jan 05 00:32
oiaohmDiplomatic immunity is not the blank ticket to do what ever as most people think.  Laws still apply.    Most people don't read USA or Australian Vesa's clause in both says you break any local law you can be kicked out no matter if you have diplomatic immunity or not.Jan 05 00:35
oiaohmIf you don't go you will be classed as a illegal immergrate.Jan 05 00:35
oiaohmSo not paying items like speeding tickets could be really really stupid for the interpol people todo.Jan 05 00:36
oiaohmMost people with Diplomatic immunity do pay all there fines because it simpler not to have one smart person wake up that there vesa can be removed so sent out country.Jan 05 00:36
oiaohmAlso you cannot have Diplomatic immunity in your own country.  So any Interpol agents that are USA cits don't have the protection either.Jan 05 00:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @techdirt: How China's Attempts To Censor The Internet Are Failing 05 00:39
phIRCe-localTitle: How China's Attempts To Censor The Internet Are Failing | Techdirt .::. Size~: 26.64 KBJan 05 00:39
oiaohmBasically when you understand Diplomatic immunity truly grants and does not grant I don't see what the issue is.  MinceR  It makes perfect cost effective sence.Jan 05 00:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @deepakurup: "No internet sex please, we're Indian" Web firms observe new law. (?) We're a bunch of hypocritesJan 05 00:42
MinceRit seems to be indicative of extremely careless behavior on the part of the interpol guys.Jan 05 00:46
oiaohmAlso it block interpol from doing stupid things like sending undercovered personal into jails as well MinceRJan 05 00:46
oiaohmIe you must use Diplomatic protection before sitting in a jail.  Otherwise you have accepted what ever the country law has coming for you.Jan 05 00:47
oiaohmNow a interpol personal dieing in jail or equal would be a internalation mess.Jan 05 00:49
oiaohmDiplomatic immunity means they have to be better behaved over all compared to what they had under the old agreement.  Where they could do everything the FBI could and if they did something wrong take a slap over wrist and keep in country.Jan 05 00:50
oiaohmRemember the most important thing when hunting a person is being able to follow them.  Being banned from particular countries is not effective for Interpol agents.Jan 05 00:51
oiaohmNow you think about it MinceR you are the interpol agent.  New rule that you can be kicked out country.  Would not not be wise to use the locals to help just in case you screw up so you don't lose the person you are hunting.Jan 05 00:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NewsTechnica: The astounding world of the future! Tech predictions for 2010 05 00:55
phIRCe-localTitle: The astounding world of the future! Tech predictions for 2010  | NewsTechnica .::. Size~: 41.19 KBJan 05 00:55
MinceRi'd rather not work for any authorityJan 05 00:56
oiaohmI know MinceR but  really the law change is more limiting.Jan 05 00:59
oiaohmI can see crime using the new change as a way to get interpol agents off there ass.Jan 05 01:00
oiaohm  The funny part is that abuse of Diplomatic immunity directly lines up with how curruppted there country is.  So as long as interpol it self is not a rouge nation no problems.Jan 05 01:03
phIRCe-localTitle: Diplomatic immunity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 88.24 KBJan 05 01:03
cubezzz"Microsoft Windows 8 will fix all the problems with that icky old Windows 7. It’ll have a database file system! And no virus problems! And a cute fish on the desktop!"Jan 05 01:06
cubezzzhahahaJan 05 01:06
oiaohmThat spin is already under way.Jan 05 01:09
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oiaohm;col1  Hmm MS heavy discounting a OS this soon.Jan 05 01:22
oiaohmI don't remember them doing that with Vista or XP.  Heck not even lemon ME.Jan 05 01:22
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oiaohm  Nice artical from apple people.Jan 05 01:27
phIRCe-localTitle: AppleInsider | User interest, satisfaction in Android approaching the iPhone .::. Size~: 57.17 KBJan 05 01:27
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DaemonFCI need to find an add-on to Seamonkey that adds www and .com when I hit ctrl+enterJan 05 01:34
DaemonFCWindows is losing the most ground to Android and the iPhoneJan 05 01:38
DaemonFChehJan 05 01:38
DaemonFC 05 01:39
phIRCe-localTitle: Chrome: Linux's best Web browser?  - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 127.11 KBJan 05 01:39
DaemonFCComputer World is hyping Google's Fauxpen Source browserJan 05 01:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Latest #Vista7 Failures, #Xbox360 Failures, and Microsoft #Cartel 05 01:39
phIRCe-localTitle: Latest Vista 7 Failures, Xbox 360 Failures, and Microsoft Cartel | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 95.43 KBJan 05 01:39
DaemonFCwell, Chromium is open source under the BSD license right? Mozilla gives you the option of MPL or the LGPL version 2Jan 05 01:40
DaemonFCI'm not a lawyer, but I take that to mean if you fork it, the license is at your optionJan 05 01:40
DaemonFCI'd choose LGPL 2Jan 05 01:41
DaemonFC 05 01:41
phIRCe-localTitle: Microsoft mulls response to Linux-based XP clone .::. Size~: 86.04 KBJan 05 01:42
cubezzz they can't do anything about thatJan 05 01:42
DaemonFCNot in the US anyway, noJan 05 01:43
DaemonFCApple sued Microsoft over cloning Mac's interface in the mid 90'sJan 05 01:43
DaemonFCthe court threw it out saying that look and feel isn't covered by copyright lawJan 05 01:43
DaemonFCthis Windows XP-ish theme for Linux would be legal even in the USJan 05 01:44
cubezzzright, besides it would be a PR nightmareJan 05 01:44
DaemonFCif I started calling it Microsoft Windows XP and using their trademarked logos, it'd be illegalJan 05 01:45
cubezzzwhat are they going to say? They used our wallpaper?Jan 05 01:45
DaemonFCbut just looking like it in a very generic way is fineJan 05 01:45
DaemonFCso I don't know why they say MS is thinking it overJan 05 01:46
oiaohmRemember lindows DaemonFCJan 05 01:46
DaemonFCtheir lawyers have to know they don't have a caseJan 05 01:46
oiaohmthe case is already done.Jan 05 01:46
DaemonFCoiaohm: That was never ruled onJan 05 01:46
oiaohmMS only option was to try to buy them out.Jan 05 01:46
DaemonFCMicrosoft ended up paying Lindows a lot of money to change their nameJan 05 01:46
cubezzzhow much?Jan 05 01:46
oiaohmAll paths MS tried just got kicked out of court at first hearing.Jan 05 01:46
DaemonFCLindows likely would have won, but probably would not have been awarded $300,000, oiaohm Jan 05 01:47
DaemonFCthat's why they settledJan 05 01:47
oiaohmThere was no court case alive when they settled DaemonFCJan 05 01:47
DaemonFCMicrosoft got it to "look" like they won when they didn't, and Lindows got a nice fat check for $300,000Jan 05 01:47
DaemonFCfor registering a new domain name and changing the product's nameJan 05 01:48
DaemonFCI'd have settled tooJan 05 01:48
oiaohmIt was not settling.Jan 05 01:48
DaemonFC$300,000 is a lot of money for doing nothing more than renaming Lindows to LinspireJan 05 01:48
oiaohmIt was taking money to change name.Jan 05 01:48
oiaohmNow if ms had a legal leg to stand on they would not had to pay.Jan 05 01:49
DaemonFCI tried out Linspire at one pointJan 05 01:49
DaemonFCmore polished than you'd expect a Linux system to be at that pointJan 05 01:49
oiaohmThink about how many companies in the USA who have tried to imposnate google.Jan 05 01:49
oiaohmAnd due to trademark laws and the like google gets there trademarks for very min expence.Jan 05 01:49
DaemonFCyeah, but web censorship (BING) and shitty search results (most others) have kept Google on topJan 05 01:50
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oiaohmLindows was a tricky case to win for MS.  Winning would threaten to undo there win against apple.Jan 05 01:50
oiaohmSo it would be win and lose big time.Jan 05 01:51
cubezzzuh, wasn't the case against apple resolved a long time ago?Jan 05 01:51
DaemonFC1995 I thinkJan 05 01:51
DaemonFCjust after Windows 95 launchedJan 05 01:51
oiaohmApple never did all the levels of court they could have applied to.Jan 05 01:52
cubezzzor was that Apple suing Microsoft? I can't even remember nowJan 05 01:52
oiaohmSo apple still could dispute judgement today if there was new evedence like MS winning against a clone.Jan 05 01:52
DaemonFCit was Apple v. MicrosoftJan 05 01:52
cubezzzlike not using a trashcan for recycling? Then Amiga used it anywayJan 05 01:52
DaemonFCMicrosoft was the defendant in that caseJan 05 01:52
cubezzzrightJan 05 01:52
DaemonFCwell, no modern GUI is truly originalJan 05 01:53
cubezzzso did Apple win that case or no?Jan 05 01:53
DaemonFCor very uniqueJan 05 01:53
oiaohmApple lost cubezzzJan 05 01:53
cubezzzah, rightJan 05 01:53
cubezzzdid Xerox GUI have a trashcan? :)Jan 05 01:53
oiaohmBut apple did not take it threw the full process.Jan 05 01:53
oiaohmNo Xerox GUI did not have a trashcanJan 05 01:53
DaemonFCApple was deperate at the time because they had a shit OS, bad hardware, the clone program....Jan 05 01:54
DaemonFCbunch of reasonsJan 05 01:54
DaemonFCMicrosoft ended up bailing them out with a few million dollarsJan 05 01:54
oiaohmAlso apple could not afford either to following threw to end either.Jan 05 01:54
cubezzzit seems pretty obvious though, but I guess Apple did have some ideas firstJan 05 01:54
DaemonFCin exchange, Apple used Microsoft Internet Explorer, not NetscapeJan 05 01:54
oiaohmMS bailed out Apple to get competition regulators off there ass.Jan 05 01:55
cubezzzthen Microsoft sold all their Apple holdings I think?Jan 05 01:55
oiaohmNot over the gui look a like bit.Jan 05 01:55
DaemonFCat the time, Microsoft was more concerned with taking out Netscape than reviving their only competitorJan 05 01:55
oiaohmNo MS still has holding in Apple.Jan 05 01:55
DaemonFCcubezzz: Yeah, they were non voting shares tooJan 05 01:55
cubezzzwhich year did Microsoft bail out Apple?Jan 05 01:55
DaemonFC1997 I thinkJan 05 01:55
oiaohm1997-1998Jan 05 01:56
DaemonFCcause the 5 year deal for IE ended in 2002Jan 05 01:56
oiaohmThere were many agreements that make up the bail out.Jan 05 01:56
DaemonFCMicrosoft discontinued IE, but Apple still bundled it until 2003Jan 05 01:56
cubezzzso post-Amiga era and early Linux eraJan 05 01:56
cubezzzbut BeOS was flying highJan 05 01:56
oiaohmThe first part of the thing to get regulators off ass was IE on MacJan 05 01:56
DaemonFCBeOS never flew highJan 05 01:56
oiaohmAnd IE on mac is a good lesson what is going to happen to .NetJan 05 01:57
DaemonFCit burned through a lot of venture capital and then crash landedJan 05 01:57
cubezzzok, but they did have some good ideasJan 05 01:57
oiaohmAll the promisses around IE on mac are about the same as around .net.Jan 05 01:57
DaemonFCyeah, Microsoft stole one of them for the UI of XP, cubezzz Jan 05 01:57
DaemonFCtaskbar sortingJan 05 01:57
cubezzzOS market is tough to break intoJan 05 01:57
cubezzzahJan 05 01:57
DaemonFCthat was in BeOS originallyJan 05 01:57
cubezzzthere's no reason BeOS couldn't have had 1% of the marketJan 05 01:58
DaemonFCMicrosoft destroyed BeOS in their OEM dealsJan 05 01:58
oiaohmAlso Next OS that become OS X also had it about the same time DaemonFCJan 05 01:58
oiaohmIe taskbar sorting.Jan 05 01:58
DaemonFCmade OEMs sign an agreement to "only pre-install one OS"Jan 05 01:58
cubezzzthen we could have a checklist from the OEM: do you want Windows, Linux, BeOS?Jan 05 01:59
oiaohmThat is still happening.Jan 05 01:59
cubezzzyeah that is such BSJan 05 01:59
DaemonFCthat's why they charged OEMs that offered a choice more money for Windows licenses, cubezzz Jan 05 01:59
DaemonFC;)Jan 05 01:59
oiaohmMS pushes the line that it too confusing to give a user more than 1 OS.Jan 05 01:59
cubezzzhow much more?Jan 05 01:59
DaemonFCa lotJan 05 01:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Bill Gates’ Influence in #Obama Administration and #Africa Increases Even Further 05 01:59
phIRCe-localTitle: Bill Gates Influence in Obama Administration and Africa Increases Even Further | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 96.6 KBJan 05 01:59
DaemonFCenough to destroy their profit marginJan 05 01:59
oiaohmAll licence costs doubled cubezzzJan 05 01:59
DaemonFCand their competitiveness with other OEMsJan 05 02:00
oiaohmAt least doubled cubezzzJan 05 02:00
cubezzzso why doesn't the DOJ people do something about that?Jan 05 02:00
DaemonFCcubezzz: The reason Dell offers Linux now is cause the US v. Microsoft trial deemed the practices illegalJan 05 02:00
oiaohmIts like with netbooks.Jan 05 02:00
cubezzzare they clueless?Jan 05 02:00
DaemonFCso Dell can't be charged more for Windows for offering LinuxJan 05 02:00
cubezzzok, well that sounds like a good start at leastJan 05 02:01
cubezzzI think Acer does too actuallyJan 05 02:01
oiaohmThe court case did not did not deal with duel booting.Jan 05 02:01
DaemonFCOEM's also can't be prevented from installing a non-IE browser, or for hiding or disabling IEJan 05 02:01
DaemonFCthat was also in the OEM agreement until US v. MicrosoftJan 05 02:01
oiaohmLot of hardware makers are getting around the duel booting issue due to loop hole in contract.Jan 05 02:01
trmanco_ 05 02:01
trmanco_no badJan 05 02:01
phIRCe-localTitle: Add updated weather to your BASH prompt | .::. Size~: 31.37 KBJan 05 02:01
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oiaohmOS in bios is classed as bios so not a OS under the agreement.Jan 05 02:02
DaemonFCoiaohm: They could dual boot with multiple OS's on the hard disk thoughJan 05 02:02
DaemonFCand get Windows for the same price as if it was jsut WindowsJan 05 02:02
oiaohmThat side of the agreement was not sorted DaemonFCJan 05 02:02
oiaohmThe case was over having to pay for machines installed with Linux to MS the price of windows.Jan 05 02:03
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzJan 05 02:03
oiaohmIe a Level ten rip off.Jan 05 02:03
schestowitzWe need opsJan 05 02:03
DaemonFCwell, I wouldn't sell dual boot machines anywayJan 05 02:03
DaemonFCjust doubling your support callsJan 05 02:04
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to amarsh04 fewaJan 05 02:04
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitzJan 05 02:04
schestowitzgnJan 05 02:04
oiaohmDepends DaemonFC.Jan 05 02:04
cubezzzok, but why don't I see Linux or non Windows non Mac in the stores?Jan 05 02:04
cubezzzlater schestowitzJan 05 02:04
oiaohmThe in bios soluition let users use online tech support even when windows is shot to hell DaemonFCJan 05 02:04
DaemonFCcubezzz: Cause there's a lot of third party support behind Windows that's not there for LinuxJan 05 02:04
amarsh04 05 02:05
phIRCe-localTitle: Copenhagen protester released from jail - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) .::. Size~: 26.07 KBJan 05 02:05
cubezzzI want one of these 3 options: blank, freedos or LinuxJan 05 02:05
cubezzzblank is not hard for OEMJan 05 02:05
DaemonFCright, but they don't support something that they didn't installJan 05 02:05
cubezzzright? No windows tax but it's not doneJan 05 02:05
DaemonFCso blank and you install Ubuntu = No supportJan 05 02:05
cubezzzDaemonFC, then they could install freedos in 60 secondsJan 05 02:06
DaemonFCbuy it with Ubuntu pre-installed = supportJan 05 02:06
oiaohmRemember back to the early days.Jan 05 02:06
oiaohmWhen you would buy a OS independant to hardware and it would include support for OS bundled.Jan 05 02:06
cubezzzI wave any support rights...Jan 05 02:06
cubezzzI'll even sign a paper to that effectJan 05 02:06
oiaohmIf you read MS windows OEM you have no support rights from MS.Jan 05 02:07
cubezzzsee, I don't have a choice except pay Microsoft or pay AppleJan 05 02:07
cubezzzI want another choiceJan 05 02:07
oiaohmLot of hardware makers don't want to make up true hardware diagnostic disks.Jan 05 02:07
cubezzzlet me emphasize _in the stores_Jan 05 02:07
oiaohmWindows prevents a lot of defective machines been returned in the warnitery period.Jan 05 02:08
DaemonFChow so?Jan 05 02:08
oiaohmPeople expect windows to play up.Jan 05 02:08
oiaohmso a dieing ram or dieing harddrive goes not noticed.Jan 05 02:08
oiaohmWindows Vista and up repair mode at long last does some basic hardware checks.Jan 05 02:10
oiaohmAnd I do mean basic. Jan 05 02:10
oiaohmA true hardware diagnostic disk for a Machine would be OS netural.  And would basically tell you if or if not everything is functioning.  If that passed then the OS user is running would be at fault.Jan 05 02:11
cubezzzuh, yeah I would notice :)Jan 05 02:11
cubezzzbad ram would be intolerableJan 05 02:11
cubezzzwhy don't the manufacturers just make a machine that is totally reliable? :)Jan 05 02:11
oiaohmThe bad part is that disk still has to be run on all machines returned for warnitiery.Jan 05 02:12
Diablo-D3oiaohmJan 05 02:12
Diablo-D3do me a favorJan 05 02:12
Diablo-D3stop talking.Jan 05 02:12
oiaohmcubezzz: depends on the bad ram cubezzz.  I have cases machines with marked recalls due to bad ram that customers have still been using and blaming windows for the issue.Jan 05 02:13
oiaohmRam defects can be in non frequently used areas so hide from a person using a OS for a fair ammount of time.Jan 05 02:14
amarsh04I run memtest after any change of RAM configurationJan 05 02:16
amarsh04better than a corrupt os or program overwriting your hard diskJan 05 02:17
cubezzzI seem to remember memtest86 for LinuxJan 05 02:18
cubezzzbut lately memory has been pretty reliableJan 05 02:18
oiaohmTalk to google about it cubezzzJan 05 02:18
oiaohmIts reliablity has not changed much over the last 10 years.Jan 05 02:19
amarsh04cubezzz I have it installed as a boot option at the grub menuJan 05 02:19
oiaohm Linux kernel is getting on the fly detection of ram defects so they can be zoned out.Jan 05 02:19
oiaohmLarge the ram stick the higher the olds it has a dud bit somewhere.Jan 05 02:19
oiaohmAnd it only takes 1 dud bit in the right program to completely ruin your day.Jan 05 02:20
oiaohmDiablo-D3: the pure idea that support a OS less machine is impossible is wrong.  My point is it can be done and over all it results for end users is better.Jan 05 02:22
cubezzzwhen people were turning their stuff off and on all the time I think that caused some memory problemsJan 05 02:23
cubezzze.g. c64 and their 64x1 DRAMJan 05 02:23
cubezzz64Kx1 Jan 05 02:23
amarsh04like every piece of hardware having self-test modes Jan 05 02:24
Diablo-D3oiaohm: I dont evne know what you'e talking aboutJan 05 02:24
oiaohmReally not.  Repowering up places key bits in different areas at times.Jan 05 02:24
Diablo-D3all I know is you're talkingJan 05 02:24
oiaohmcubezzz: each time you power on and off you increase risk of finding an already existing memory fault.Jan 05 02:26
cubezzz 05 02:28
phIRCe-localTitle: HowStuffWorks "Is it better to turn my computer off when I am not using it?" .::. Size~: 65.29 KBJan 05 02:28
oiaohmLot of modern day hardware need firmware loaded into them so they can perform there selftest.Jan 05 02:29
oiaohmStress theory is false due to the reason using a machine will cause it heat to rise and drop anyhow cubezzzJan 05 02:31
oiaohmSimple put a temp monitor on a machine while running and let it go into power save  You will notice it changes a large range in temp any how.Jan 05 02:33
oiaohmOnly two major advantages of always on.  Cold areas were mostiure could condence.   And the annoyance that old harddrives and mothers can sometimes cease at a drop of a hat.Jan 05 02:34
amarsh04I have been largely successful at migrating old disks' contents onto new disks before stiction failureJan 05 02:35
amarsh04the nearly 11 year old motherboard is doing fineJan 05 02:36
cubezzzwhich make of motherboard?Jan 05 02:36
amarsh04biostarJan 05 02:36
oiaohmTo make Diablo-D3 happen I have a off site job to deal with.   I am not supprised I have a old motherboard from 1998 that is still running perfectly well.  I don't know what I will do if it ever needs new ram.Jan 05 02:37
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amarsh04mine has a mixture of pc100 and pc133 sdram in it... still have a few sticks of edo ram (192 MiB worth) from a machine that's gone to the recyclerJan 05 02:38
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phIRCe-localTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 05 03:00
shreddarThose are very pretty and sifi-ish. I hope they convinced venders to actually make those.Jan 05 03:01
shreddar 05 03:02
phIRCe-localTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 05 03:02
shreddarI can leave the keyboard though. But It's still neat.Jan 05 03:03
DaemonFC 05 03:10
phIRCe-localTitle: Jurassic Park in 30 seconds with bunnies. .::. Size~: 4.07 KBJan 05 03:10
DaemonFC 05 03:11
phIRCe-localTitle: Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan in 30 seconds with bunnies. .::. Size~: 4.29 KBJan 05 03:11
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phIRCe-localTitle: The Terminator in 30 seconds with bunnies. .::. Size~: 4.01 KBJan 05 03:11
DaemonFCthese are great :)Jan 05 03:11
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phIRCe-localTitle: SQUIRREL SONGS VI :: .::. Size~: 1.62 KBJan 05 03:19
cubezzz 05 03:32
phIRCe-localTitle: Kim Peek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 53.15 KBJan 05 03:32
DaemonFC 05 03:40
phIRCe-localTitle: ACHIEVEMENTS :: .::. Size~: 1.6 KBJan 05 03:40
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cubezzzis there a <cite> </cite> in html?Jan 05 04:32
cubezzzdon't remember seeing that beforeJan 05 04:32
neighborleenever h eard of it o_0Jan 05 04:39
neighborleebut then html can do alot so who knows what lurks where I have yet to travel <seen too many horror flicks lately>Jan 05 04:40
cubezzzevidently it is a part of htmlJan 05 04:43
cubezzz<cite>  Defines a citationJan 05 04:43
cubezzz<code>Computer code text</code>Jan 05 04:44
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cubezzzI started with html in 1996 so I'm sure it's changed a lot since thenJan 05 04:44
DaemonFCheh, HTML 3.2Jan 05 04:45
DaemonFCit was lulzy *before* Microsoft and Netscape both tried to "extend" itJan 05 04:45
DaemonFC 05 04:47
phIRCe-localTitle: JavaScript Style Sheets - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 32.96 KBJan 05 04:47
DaemonFCNetscape 4 had support for thoseJan 05 04:48
DaemonFCit only supported CSS through a JSS to CSS converter, which is why it was so buggy and slow on pages that had CSSJan 05 04:48
DaemonFCif you turned off Javascript in Navigator, you lost CSS support, this is whyJan 05 04:49
Diablo-D3ironic jss is kinda back in styleJan 05 04:49
Diablo-D3just not in that formJan 05 04:49
Diablo-D3a lot of sites drive theming with heavy js toolkit stuffJan 05 04:49
DaemonFCNetscape 4 was the worst browser ever, periodJan 05 04:49
Diablo-D3I mean, yes, they use css underneath, but you get what I meanJan 05 04:49
DaemonFCit wasn't just frustrating to code for, it was poor quality from a user's point of viewJan 05 04:50
DaemonFCit's what happened because of the rush to release something, anything, to keep up with MSIEJan 05 04:50
DaemonFCif the page had anything more than the slightest bit of CSS, Navigator would usually just hangJan 05 04:51
DaemonFCDiablo-D3: There was a completely proprietary "DHTML" that Netscape 4 supported, nothing else has any support for itJan 05 04:52
DaemonFCbut it was kind of coolJan 05 04:52
cubezzzI don't think anyone uses Netscape nowadaysJan 05 04:52
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Holy crap, just announce it already #Apple! I'm tired of hearing about it already! 05 04:53
phIRCe-localTitle: Apple Product Announcement Scheduled in San Francisco Wednesday, Jan. 27 | John Paczkowski | Digital Daily | AllThingsD .::. Size~: 73.76 KBJan 05 04:53
DaemonFCcubezzz: That's what made me lol at Linux users for yearsJan 05 04:53
DaemonFCwhile the typical Linux distro was shipping Netscape Navigator cause there just wasn't anything else on *nix that was even that "good"Jan 05 04:53
DaemonFClots of people forget how buggy Mozilla Suite was until around 0.9 or soJan 05 04:54
DaemonFCso it was true that Mozilla was technologically superior, it was also completely unstableJan 05 04:55
DaemonFCso there were really no good browsers on Linux until Mozilla Suite hit 1.0Jan 05 04:55
DaemonFCiirc, Red Hat was still shipping Navigator 4.0 until 2002Jan 05 04:56
DaemonFCit had already been buckling under modern web content for a few years by that pointJan 05 04:56
DaemonFCI think that's where Konqueror came fromJan 05 04:57
DaemonFCdoubts about whether Mozilla would ever ship anything worth usingJan 05 04:57
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DaemonFCa child could be conceived, born, and almost done with high school by the time 2 TB worth of streaming quality Vorbis stopped playingJan 05 05:34
DaemonFC:PJan 05 05:34
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Omar87Hi all.Jan 05 06:01
Omar87New MS Mass-hypnosis parade over at my college today.Jan 05 06:01
Omar87How should I attack?Jan 05 06:02
DaemonFCwhat are they doing, exactly?Jan 05 06:09
amarsh04attack of the killer penguins?Jan 05 06:09
DaemonFCOmar87: I would say get 500 Kubuntu discs and pass them out, but they're pretty stingy with them latelyJan 05 06:11
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DaemonFC 05 06:42
phIRCe-localTitle: ZIP CODES :: .::. Size~: 1.77 KBJan 05 06:42
DaemonFClulz @ "Go Green" toddler t-shirts that were made by another child in a third world country, in a factory that's belching out more toxic fumes than a tire fireJan 05 06:47
DaemonFC 05 06:51
phIRCe-localTitle: GO GREEN :: .::. Size~: 1.78 KBJan 05 06:51
DaemonFCEnder2070: I have intelligence from the British that the Reptilians are enriching yellow cake uraniumJan 05 07:06
DaemonFCwho should I give it to?Jan 05 07:06
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Omar87amarsh04: :-)Jan 05 07:22
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Lenovo is soon going to release Snapdragon #ARM based netbook 05 07:28
phIRCe-localTitle: Lenovo's Skylight Is the First ARM-Based Snapdragon Smartbook - Lenovo skylight - Gizmodo .::. Size~: 73.26 KBJan 05 07:28
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DaemonFCInternet Explorer is down to 55.72% of web usersJan 05 07:51
DaemonFCit'll be down below 50% by August at the rate it's goingJan 05 07:53
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] “Denny’s Uses Linux” 05 08:50
phIRCe-localTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 05 08:50
schestowitz 05 08:57
phIRCe-localTitle:   Exclusive: VMware Likely to Buy Zimbra From Yahoo | Kara Swisher | BoomTown | AllThingsD .::. Size~: 58.89 KBJan 05 08:57
schestowitz 05 09:00
phIRCe-localTitle: Acquired by Seesmic | WebProNews .::. Size~: 31.87 KBJan 05 09:00
schestowitz 05 09:01
phIRCe-localTitle: Flixster Buys Film Rating Site  | WebProNews .::. Size~: 31.51 KBJan 05 09:01
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schestowitz 05 09:28
schestowitz 05 09:29
phIRCe-localTitle: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 82.15 KBJan 05 09:29
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satiperaThis article contains this quote from an "ip" law firm..."It's an industry and it always will be. When you think about it, bulletproof hosting is just a data version of money laundering." Jan 05 09:33
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] trying out Tomboy notes app on Windows laptop for a bit. Hopefully it syncs to Ubuntu One :)Jan 05 10:40
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] I've only used XP and below, not Vista or 7. Do they still need reboots after application installs? e.g .net 3.5.Jan 05 10:57
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Well that was uneventful. Tomboy for Windows synced my notes to Ubuntu one with zero effort. :)Jan 05 11:14
zoobabhoax?Jan 05 11:16
zoobab 05 11:16
phIRCe-localTitle: Tras una pelea, Richard Stallman detenido en el aeropuerto de Miami | Ubunlog .::. Size~: 87.21 KBJan 05 11:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] ..also worth noting that I'm behind a proxy on Windows and Tomboy synced nicely. I like.Jan 05 11:16
schestowitzzoobab: yes, jokeJan 05 11:38
schestowitzbblJan 05 11:44
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #Apache proxy configuration assistance needed - how to make proxy serve *only* intranet sites? 05 12:03
phIRCe-localTitle: reddragdiva | Apache proxy configuration question. .::. Size~: 28.64 KBJan 05 12:03
phIRCe-localTitle: reddragdiva: Apache proxy configuration question. .::. Size~: 19.41 KBJan 05 12:03
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trmancoplasma is faster and leaks less nowJan 05 12:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] New Blog Post | When The Brain Is A Little Behind The Times | The Digital Prism 05 12:55
phIRCe-localTitle: When The Brain Is A Little Behind The Times | The Digital Prism .::. Size~: 10.02 KBJan 05 12:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Jan Wildeboer · Why I will not sign the MySQL petition 05 13:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] The 12 million EUR for the Spanish Presidency website seems to go in the pocket of Telefonica, the telephone monopolist: 05 13:00
phIRCe-localTitle: Jan Wildeboer · Why I will not sign the MySQL petition .::. Size~: 29.68 KBJan 05 13:00
phIRCe-localTitle: La página de la Presidencia Europea atacada con XSS .::. Size~: 16.21 KBJan 05 13:00
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Omar87HiJan 05 14:12
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Everyone is snowed in today. I was at the gym alone with 3 staff members.Jan 05 14:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] APRIL urges the European Commission to reject the patent deal with Microsoft which excludes Free Software: 05 14:53
phIRCe-localTitle: The European Commission curtails Microsoft's abuse of dominance | April .::. Size~: 21.92 KBJan 05 14:53
schestowitzHey, Omar87Jan 05 14:56
Omar87schestowitz: hiJan 05 14:56
Omar87I took a look at the MS Mass-hypnosis charade at my college today.Jan 05 14:57
Omar87schestowitz: Man, it was so damn pathetic.Jan 05 14:57
Omar87schestowitz: they had no more than one or two tables.Jan 05 14:58
schestowitzTake it easy with themJan 05 14:58
Omar87schestowitz: lol :DJan 05 14:58
schestowitzYou can only have more fun not getting upset over itJan 05 14:58
schestowitzAny change you make is good, regardless of outcomeJan 05 14:58
schestowitzJordan is not Brazil or FranceJan 05 14:58
Omar87schestowitz: Ya know? That's right.Jan 05 14:59
Omar87schestowitz: I should be more open-minded.Jan 05 14:59
schestowitzTake example from Lessig, RMS, othersJan 05 14:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] NL has also a "patent box": Dell and Google are using the same patent box to avoid US taxes: 05 14:59
phIRCe-localTitle: International tax planning - The Dutch Licensing Company .::. Size~: 69.31 KBJan 05 14:59
phIRCe-localTitle: Software Patents: Software patents and Fiscal "optimisation" .::. Size~: 28.17 KBJan 05 14:59
Omar87schestowitz: And instead of getting upset and stressed, I should be more understanding. And I should be open to negotiation and discussion.Jan 05 15:00
Omar87schestowitz: I agree.Jan 05 15:00
Omar87:)Jan 05 15:00
schestowitzThey are misledJan 05 15:00
schestowitzIt's like when Hitchen says about DaemonFC that he should sympathiseJan 05 15:01
schestowitzMass hypnosis from FoxJan 05 15:01
Omar87schestowitz: True.Jan 05 15:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] There are no patent trolls in Europe: 05 15:02
Omar87schestowitz: DaemonFC is very misled. And he can't be blame for it. Though there is one thing that we can blame him for which repeating everything he hears from those Fox clowns.Jan 05 15:03
Omar87Without taking the time to think carefully.Jan 05 15:04
Omar87He's not alone, though.Jan 05 15:04
schestowitzto be satiricial, if you keep calm, you'll have low blood pressure and be able to advance freedom for longer :-)Jan 05 15:04
schestowitzAngry people makes people angry... it's bad for changing opinions of those on the other sideJan 05 15:05
schestowitzThat's why I can't listen to Gallaway muchJan 05 15:05
schestowitzGallowayJan 05 15:05
schestowitzOmar87: I think he changes his mindJan 05 15:05
Omar87Because he's angry?Jan 05 15:05
schestowitzPeople think what they are told to think based on heir environmentJan 05 15:05
Omar87Changes his mind?Jan 05 15:06
schestowitzThat's why people in country X tend to align with the country's policies, be they true or falseJan 05 15:06
Omar87Not quite true.Jan 05 15:06
schestowitzOmar87: doesn't matter if you're angry. You can suppress it and speak about the factsJan 05 15:06
schestowitzElaborate plsJan 05 15:07
Omar87For example, people of Egypt hate their country so very much.Jan 05 15:07
Omar87NoJan 05 15:07
Omar87Sorry.Jan 05 15:07
schestowitzEgypt is a good countryJan 05 15:07
Omar87They don't hate their country.Jan 05 15:07
schestowitzBut they are close to the WestJan 05 15:07
Omar87They hate their government so very much.Jan 05 15:07
schestowitzSo some people are unhappy about it, since the middle of the 20th centuryJan 05 15:07
schestowitzOmar87: but they elect it, the majority at leastJan 05 15:08
Omar87schestowitz: Untrue.Jan 05 15:08
Omar87schestowitz: They did not elect Mubabarak.Jan 05 15:08
Omar87schestowitz: And they are totally against passing the government to his son.Jan 05 15:09
Omar87schestowitz: Just exactly like how all Arabian goverments did not sit on their thrones in a legal, democratic way.Jan 05 15:10
schestowitzMubabarak. :-)Jan 05 15:12
schestowitzMubaba[*1]rak. :-)Jan 05 15:12
Omar87schestowitz: They came through oppression.Jan 05 15:13
Omar87I didn't get it. :)Jan 05 15:13
schestowitzMubarakJan 05 15:14
schestowitzYou wrote Mubabarak.Jan 05 15:14
schestowitzI didn't know it was still inheritance-based, like the British MonarchyJan 05 15:15
Omar87Oh yeah, it is.Jan 05 15:15
schestowitzHereditary regimes appoint not based on character and qualities and there is no risk of losing powerJan 05 15:16
Omar87Even those who claim to be "democratic" are actually "undemocratic".Jan 05 15:16
Omar87schestowitz: Though the US ain't not difference when it comes to electing the government.Jan 05 15:17
schestowitzThere is no democracy in the world... I'ev always said soJan 05 15:17
schestowitz"democracy" is a textbook idea like "Utopia"Jan 05 15:17
schestowitzThe US was never designed the be a democracyJan 05 15:17
schestowitzExplicitly soJan 05 15:18
schestowitzThe word democracy is used there like "freedom" and "free speech"Jan 05 15:18
Omar87schestowitz: "Though the US ain't no better when it comes...." **Jan 05 15:18
schestowitzYou are "Free" only in certain ways and your free speech is a farce because you have boundaries and thus self-censorshipJan 05 15:18
Omar87schestowitz: Even free speech doesn't really exist in the US>Jan 05 15:18
schestowitzOr the UKJan 05 15:19
Omar87True.Jan 05 15:19
schestowitzIt's worse in the UKJan 05 15:19
Omar87brbJan 05 15:19
Omar87True.Jan 05 15:19
schestowitzCause of libel law and maybe the new blasphemy 'law'Jan 05 15:19
Omar87brbJan 05 15:19
schestowitzkJan 05 15:19
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shreddar 05 15:22
phIRCe-localTitle: 7 Things Microsoft Must Do In 2010 -- Microsoft -- InformationWeek .::. Size~: 93.23 KBJan 05 15:22
shreddarTony A left a great comment there.Jan 05 15:22
shreddar"...I'm really not sure what motivates someone to come up with a program for supporting Microsoft's bottom line. It's not as if the masses are out there clamoring for a stronger Microsoft..."Jan 05 15:23
schestowitzThat's Information Week.Jan 05 15:23
schestowitzThey have Microsoft behind themJan 05 15:24
schestowitzSee BN's "Credibility Index (List)"Jan 05 15:24
schestowitzALas, DisinfoWeek is getting out of reporting much. One of their "open source" has just leftJan 05 15:24
schestowitzSerdar somethingJan 05 15:24
shreddarHere's another part of the post:Jan 05 15:24
schestowitzHe was pseudopen sourceJan 05 15:24
shreddar"What's next on the agenda? Seven ideas to boost profits at IBM? How Oracle can unload Sparc servers and deep-six MySQL? I just don't know what to expect from someone who feels they need to give Microsoft instructions on staying profitable. (Maybe advice for Detroit on how not to build cars?)"Jan 05 15:24
Omar87backJan 05 15:25
schestowitzshreddar: yeah, I know. Their advertisers will be happy thoughJan 05 15:25
schestowitzThey even put strongly pro-MS ads in their 'FOSS' articlesJan 05 15:25
schestowitzIt's "Old media" and I don't think they print anymoreJan 05 15:26
schestowitzNo subscJan 05 15:26
schestowitzThey did a lot of anti-Linux in 2007Jan 05 15:27
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shreddarThat credibility index might come in handy. How often is it updated?Jan 05 15:33
schestowitzHardly everJan 05 15:34
schestowitzSince 2007 or 2008.Jan 05 15:34
schestowitzSome of these people no longer cover the topicJan 05 15:34
shreddarOhJan 05 15:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Maddog on Brand Power for #GNU #Linux #tuxJan 05 15:34
schestowitzTBH, there are *far* fewer Linux bashers than back thenJan 05 15:35
schestowitzEven Enderle almost hanged the towelJan 05 15:35
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Korean #Bank Moves to #GNU #Linux Servers ( #Mainframes ) 05 15:37
phIRCe-localTitle: Korean bank dumps Unix boxen for mainframes • The Register .::. Size~: 33.78 KBJan 05 15:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Google Allegedly Enters #Tablet Business with #GNU #Linux 05 15:38
phIRCe-localTitle: Google chisels Chrome OS tablet, rumors say • The Register .::. Size~: 29.44 KBJan 05 15:38
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shreddarI'm starting to think this is they year of the (affordable) tablet.Jan 05 15:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Reviews of New #GNU #Linux Browsers 05 15:40
phIRCe-localTitle: Arora web browser review | Linux User .::. Size~: 29.02 KBJan 05 15:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Zec : Multiplayer #Game for #GNU #Linux 05 15:41
phIRCe-localTitle: Ubuntuland, The Dream Valley: Zec is a client for Empire, a real time, multiplayer, internet-based game, featuring military, diplomatic, and economic goals .::. Size~: 228.77 KBJan 05 15:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNOME Desktop Vision 05 15:42
phIRCe-localTitle: Stormy's Corner: What's your vision of GNOME? .::. Size~: 19.61 KBJan 05 15:42
shreddarI keep hearing about all of these tablets coming out this year and most of them are going to sport unique GUI's (aka not Windows) and some will even use ARM.Jan 05 15:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Debian Follows #RedHat on Some #UNIX Standards 05 15:44
phIRCe-localTitle: Aaron Toponce : Does Debian Deviate From Standards Or Upstream? .::. Size~: 43.04 KBJan 05 15:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu Beginners Manual to be Released 05 15:45
phIRCe-localTitle: Ubuntu Beginners Manual Coming With Lucid Lynx? ~ Web Upd8 .::. Size~: 138.72 KBJan 05 15:45
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] it's not the snow, it's the fact that the snow can't melt, so it just builds ice upon uneven ice, with some snow on top to fool youJan 05 15:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Wheelie bin doubles as public toilet - I can see that being fun for women ;) 05 15:58
phIRCe-localTitle: BBC News - Wheelie bin doubles as public toilet .::. Size~: 32.01 KBJan 05 15:58
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Android (Linux) Kicks #iPhone (Apple) in the Guts 05 16:01
phIRCe-localTitle:  Demand for Android phones makes 'monstrous' 250% jump .::. Size~: 126 KBJan 05 16:01
phIRCe-localTitle: Survey Shows Android Gaining Smartphone Ground - PC World .::. Size~: 65.21 KBJan 05 16:01
phIRCe-localTitle: Five Predictions for Google's Nexus One - PC World Business Center .::. Size~: 61.76 KBJan 05 16:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Palm 's #Linux Phones to Lead to Pre Plus 05 16:02
phIRCe-localTitle: WebOS rev'd as Verizon preps Pre Plus - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 62.18 KBJan 05 16:02
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] BBC News - Facebook blocks social network profile removal service 05 16:03
phIRCe-localTitle: BBC News - Facebook blocks social network profile removal service .::. Size~: 50.24 KBJan 05 16:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #Linux Box for #Netflix , Linux-powered Handheld Coming 05 16:04
phIRCe-localTitle: IP STB runs Linux, supports Netflix downloads - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 62.05 KBJan 05 16:04
phIRCe-localTitle: Linux-running Pandora game handheld nears completion  - Neoseeker News Article .::. Size~: 41 KBJan 05 16:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ARM -based Sub-notebooks Totally Change the Game for #GNU #Linux 05 16:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mozilla Makes Big Changes Ahead of Next #Firefox 05 16:07
phIRCe-localTitle: Firefox development dilemma: Tweak or overhaul? | Deep Tech - CNET News .::. Size~: 57.97 KBJan 05 16:07
phIRCe-localTitle: OMG! UBUNTU!: One Add-on Lets Firefox Use Ubuntu Notification System .::. Size~: 87.24 KBJan 05 16:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #MySQL #Database Under #Oracle Might be OK 05 16:08
phIRCe-localTitle: TechRepublic Blogs: For IT professionals, by IT professionals .::. Size~: 75.96 KBJan 05 16:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Drupal #CMS Produces New Literature #bookJan 05 16:09
phIRCe-localTitle: New Drupal Book: Drupal for Dummies | .::. Size~: 16.35 KBJan 05 16:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FSFE on #GPL Licensing and #Copyright 05 16:10
phIRCe-localTitle: On Copyright Assignment «  Bobulate .::. Size~: 26.6 KBJan 05 16:10
schestowitzshreddar: yes, tablets may come from Apple soon tooJan 05 16:12
schestowitzshreddar: Vista 7 on tablet is power-greedyJan 05 16:13
schestowitzIt's not built for itJan 05 16:13
schestowitzRemember that featuire in Vista for second display on laptops?Jan 05 16:13
schestowitzGeez, I can't even remember its name right nowJan 05 16:13
schestowitzThat was *SO* DOAJan 05 16:13
shreddarI want to see those $200 smarttablets Freescale was designing.Jan 05 16:14
schestowitzLike Crunchpad, but from a large vendorJan 05 16:14
shreddarAs far as Apple tablet "iSlate" is what the rumors say.Jan 05 16:15
schestowitziLate is rubbishJan 05 16:15
schestowitzToo little, too lateJan 05 16:15
shreddarThat's a crappy name though.Jan 05 16:15
schestowitzT0o expensive.. for a logoJan 05 16:15
schestowitziSlitJan 05 16:15
schestowitziSlutJan 05 16:15
schestowitziSitJan 05 16:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @thistleweb yes, it's most deadly when it's icy later this weekJan 05 16:15
schestowitziiiJan 05 16:15
shreddarI want someone the come out with the PhantomZone tablet.Jan 05 16:16
schestowitziS*ate (that's an L)Jan 05 16:16
shreddarI don't know I think it's only too late to become leader but not to late to become a player.Jan 05 16:17
shreddarI still think that ARM based computer should try to cost less than $500.Jan 05 16:19
shreddarI myself will not pay anymore than $300 for these new devices. Jan 05 16:19
Omar87_schestowitz: How do I deal with naive people?Jan 05 16:20
shreddarTell them that you're a consultant and recommend they get a clue.Jan 05 16:21
shreddarHow naive are they?Jan 05 16:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Censorship in #China Backfires, #Copenhagen Hostage Released 05 16:21
phIRCe-localTitle: How China's Attempts To Censor The Internet Are Failing | Techdirt .::. Size~: 35.72 KBJan 05 16:21
phIRCe-localTitle: Copenhagen protester released from jail - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) .::. Size~: 24.93 KBJan 05 16:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ACTA Secrecy Challenged, More #Internet Abuse Challenged Too 05 16:23
phIRCe-localTitle: Marshall interview on ACTA with the Commission «  Sköne Oke .::. Size~: 19.97 KBJan 05 16:23
phIRCe-localTitle: DOJ Recommends FCC Quickly Free up More Spectrum - PC World .::. Size~: 67.91 KBJan 05 16:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #MAFIAA Might be Working Against the #Constitution 05 16:24
phIRCe-localTitle: Slashdot Your Rights Online Story | Constitutionality of RIAA Damages Challenged .::. Size~: 186.98 KBJan 05 16:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Apple Sued for #Patent Infringement Again 05 16:25
phIRCe-localTitle: Nokia sues Apple (again) • The Register .::. Size~: 31.88 KBJan 05 16:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 'Ultimate' Comparison of #GNU #Linux Distributions for Desktop 05 16:26
phIRCe-localTitle: The Ultimate Distro Showdown: Ubuntu 9.10 vs openSUSE 11.2 vs Mandriva 2010  LINUX For You Magazine .::. Size~: 86.14 KBJan 05 16:27
Ender2070why does everyone ignore fedoraJan 05 16:27
Ender2070thats hardly "ultimate"Jan 05 16:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Samsung Puts #Linux on Sub-notebooks #ballnuxJan 05 16:28
phIRCe-localTitle: Samsung spins four Atom N450 netbooks - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 61.3 KBJan 05 16:28
schestowitzI put it in scare quotesJan 05 16:31
schestowitzOmar87_: give them something to watch, I guess. THe problem is, most of them are lazy and they are consumers in the sense that they consume PR BS by sitting back and watching commercial nonsense that programs their brainsJan 05 16:32
Ender2070"Remember January 30, 2007? With a troupe dancing in front of the Taj Mahal, Microsoft Corporation released Windows Vista worldwide on that day. The catch line for the OS? “The Wow Starts Now!”. Back then, the company was justified in saying so. But not any more. Enter openSUSE 11.2 and you are sure to get blown away! Let’s see what has been done…"Jan 05 16:33
Ender2070sounds pro microvellJan 05 16:33
Omar87_shreddar, schestowitzall their dreams are based on so damn materialistic BS, like money, wealth, luxury, "working at Microsoft", new fancy car, new fancy house.. blah blah blah..Jan 05 16:34
Omar87_brbJan 05 16:34
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Omar87_backJan 05 16:44
Omar87_Ya know?Jan 05 16:44
Omar87_So, basically, all they think of is that.Jan 05 16:44
Omar87_"Microsoft!!!!"Jan 05 16:45
shreddarAside from the "working at Microsoft part I'm having trouble seeing any problem with it.Jan 05 16:45
Omar87_To them: Microsoft >= Paradise.Jan 05 16:45
Omar87_shreddar: the problem is that capitalism, materialism and lust for money, luxury, consumption and wealth are the main causes for all this agony we are living in.Jan 05 16:47
Omar87_This is the main reason why we find millions of men, women and children dying and starving to death in the world.Jan 05 16:48
shreddarLust for money is certainly a problem but I don't believe it's the main cause of agony of the world.Jan 05 16:52
Omar87_Though, I'm not saying you should stop making money to feed yourself and you family. But I'm just saying: "Don't base your whole life on it."Jan 05 16:52
Omar87_shreddar: then how do you explain the criminal attitude of those large corporations (amongst which is M$)?Jan 05 16:52
Omar87_shreddar: How do you explain those wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?Jan 05 16:53
shreddarI think reasons behind those things are more complicated that and that those aren't the only examples of agony in this world.Jan 05 16:55
shreddarThere is certainly fear and selfishness seems to be part of this too.Jan 05 16:57
Omar87_shreddar: true.Jan 05 16:57
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shreddarLove of Luxury and wealth and a nice new car aren't inherently bad.Jan 05 16:59
shreddarand It's not always materials that motivate people to destructive means.Jan 05 17:04
shreddarThe reasons those people are wanting those materials may still be destructive though.Jan 05 17:07
shreddarYou might get them to look at their real motives and goals. Show them how well Microsoft is doing. Tell them about the layoffs. Read them the financial reports.Jan 05 17:10
shreddarSome of them might want to show they are somebody. Be seem by the world as successful. Maybe feel like they are worth something.Jan 05 17:12
shreddarI'm describing nearly everyone on the planet here.Jan 05 17:14
schestowitztrmanco: new WordPress patch is out....Jan 05 17:18
schestowitzOmar87_: yesJan 05 17:18
trmancoyes I knowJan 05 17:18
Omar87_schestowitz: excuse me?Jan 05 17:19
schestowitzAbu AliJan 05 17:19
schestowitzI just caught upJan 05 17:19
schestowitzYes, Microsoft represents greedJan 05 17:19
schestowitzMoney above ethicsJan 05 17:19
Omar87_Abu Ali?? :DJan 05 17:19
schestowitztrmanco: I'll need to update from 2.8 nowJan 05 17:20
Omar87_schestowitz: who's Abu Ali?Jan 05 17:20
schestowitzGrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....... there's this zombie POS hitting the BN server periodically for like a weekJan 05 17:22
schestowitzI can't think of an automated way to stop this WIndows menaceJan 05 17:22 05 17:23
schestowitz 05 17:23
phIRCe-localTitle: SAIC: From Science to Solutions® .::. Size~: 13.51 KBJan 05 17:23
schestowitzAnother comes from proxy.etat.luJan 05 17:24
schestowitzWIndows zombies or somethingJan 05 17:25
schestowitzArghhhhhhhhhh... 05 17:30
schestowitzStinkin zombieJan 05 17:30
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Bartz Gives #Microsoft Competitor ( #Zimbra ) to Former Microsoft Employees 05 17:41
phIRCe-localTitle: Former Microsoft Partner/Ally Gives Microsoft Competitor (Zimbra) to Former Microsoft Employees | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 95.32 KBJan 05 17:41
rnbfrom saic, huh?Jan 05 17:41
rnbthere isnt much difference between saic and the dodJan 05 17:42
schestowitzJust upgraded the siteJan 05 17:49
schestowitzIf you see anything funny, hollerJan 05 17:50
schestowitzrnb: are they related?Jan 05 17:50
schestowitzrnb: I can give more IPsJan 05 17:50
schestowitzThe thing is, they are not from the same domain/ISPJan 05 17:50
schestowitzSO I can't make a complaint about those banstards who knock BN out of commission several times per dayJan 05 17:50
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schestowitztrmanco: can you sense any visible difference in the new version?Jan 05 18:15
trmanconoJan 05 18:15
schestowitzAnything worth playing with? I watched a feature list before (underwhelmed)Jan 05 18:15
schestowitzMaybe they could use more competition from DrupalJan 05 18:15
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schestowitzI remember in 2006 when 'we' wanted to copy the Drupal uploaderJan 05 18:15
schestowitzAt the time it was quite primitive in WP without a files managesJan 05 18:16
schestowitz*gerJan 05 18:16
Diablo-D3hehJan 05 18:18
Diablo-D3for miotd, I dont use wp for uploading at allJan 05 18:19
Ender2070schestowitz - have you noticed this pattern? an article might compare a few distros. the ones that say opensuse is the best among them usually completely ignore redhatJan 05 18:19
Ender2070novell themselves did something similarJan 05 18:24
Ender2070some report, showed them as the largest contributor or something but they were excluding redhat/fedoraJan 05 18:25
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zoobabat fosdem some speaker asked the audience who was using whatJan 05 18:32
zoobabubuntu largely in frontJan 05 18:32
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zoobabfedora and opensuse were nowhereJan 05 18:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] OSS Watch Pretends That #Microsoft ’s Attacks on #FreeSoftware Do Not Exist 05 18:34
phIRCe-localTitle: OSS Watch Pretends That Microsofts Attacks on Free Software Do Not Exist | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 103.07 KBJan 05 18:34
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amarsh04Linuxtoday just updated their sticky page to include their follow-up interview (from 2002) of Dr. Edgar David Villanueva NuñezJan 05 19:04
phIRCe-localTitle: Linux Today - Linux Today Sticky Page .::. Size~: 77.3 KBJan 05 19:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Patent Curses , Patent Fallacies, #Tax Loopholes 05 19:09
phIRCe-localTitle: Patents Roundup: Patent Curses, Patent Fallacies, Tax Loopholes  | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 96.2 KBJan 05 19:09
schestowitzzoobab: thanks for the info above (see latest post)Jan 05 19:10
schestowitzamarsh04: I see BN is there tooJan 05 19:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] THE INCONTINENT CAT HAS PEED ON THE COUCH AGAIN AAAAAAAAAA vet tomorrow!Jan 05 19:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Hmmmmm... #WordPress 2.9 feels like the update that wasn't. I see not much added value.Jan 05 19:12
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schestowitzNot clear is this one uses Linux: 05 19:14
phIRCe-localTitle: Kurzweil Takes On Kindle With New E-Reader Platform Blio | Singularity Hub .::. Size~: 69.88 KBJan 05 19:14
schestowitzFedora has just broken a world recordJan 05 19:17
schestowitz 05 19:17
phIRCe-localTitle: Pi Computation Record .::. Size~: 3.2 KBJan 05 19:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz WP 2.9 had severe bugs, 2.9.1 is a "brown bag" (i.e. previous sucked) release everyone should upgrade!Jan 05 19:17
phIRCe-localTitle: WordPress 2.9: three bugs, and how to fix them .::. Size~: 151.27 KBJan 05 19:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard I never update o x.0 releases cause there is no security-related urgency to do so and bugs may existJan 05 19:19
schestowitzMicrosoft is dumping Vista 7 againJan 05 19:22
schestowitzConsiderable dicounts because people won't move from XP/Linux/whateverJan 05 19:22
schestowitzMaybe they can just make Windows free of charge and start thinking how the hell to surviveJan 05 19:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NewsTechnica: Special trains introduced for the wrong type of snow 05 19:23
phIRCe-localTitle: | NewsTechnica .::. Size~: 18.88 KBJan 05 19:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Dual-Screen E-Reader Any Linux on this one? Does anyone know?Jan 05 19:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard bad linkJan 05 19:24
phIRCe-localTitle: Rumor: MSI To Show Dual-Screen E-Reader & 3D Laptop At CES - PC World .::. Size~: 75.56 KBJan 05 19:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz try nowJan 05 19:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Rory Cellan-Jones flirts with Microsoft Scoble. What a surprise!! Not. 05 19:28
phIRCe-localTitle: BBC - dot.Rory .::. Size~: 42.88 KBJan 05 19:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard nice. Picture of Vista launch party.Jan 05 19:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz sorry, try this link! NewsTechnica: Special trains introduced for the wrong type of snow 05 19:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NewsTechnica: Special trains introduced for the wrong type of snow 05 19:29
phIRCe-localTitle: Special trains introduced for the wrong type of snow | NewsTechnica .::. Size~: 39.73 KBJan 05 19:29
phIRCe-localTitle: Special trains introduced for the wrong type of snow | NewsTechnica .::. Size~: 39.73 KBJan 05 19:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mr Bean replaces Spanish PM on EU presidency site They do look similarJan 05 19:30
phIRCe-localTitle: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 84.31 KBJan 05 19:30
schestowitz"Android demand skyrockets" Is the future of "Linux" DRM and part free, part blobs? I told Linus about it, he doesn't mind...Jan 05 19:33
MinceRhe doesn't seem to care about freedom, does he?Jan 05 19:34
schestowitz 05 19:36
phIRCe-localTitle: Dating site for beautiful people expels 'fatties' after holiday weight gain - .::. Size~: 47.62 KBJan 05 19:36
schestowitzMinceR: maybe he will one dayJan 05 19:36
schestowitzHis dad caredJan 05 19:37
schestowitz 05 19:37
phIRCe-localTitle: Nils Torvalds - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 26.16 KBJan 05 19:37
schestowitz"In 2007 Torvalds was elected to the post of the third vice chairperson of the Swedish People's Party.[3] In 2008, he was elected in Helsinki City Council for term 2009–2012.[4] Torvalds was a candidate for European Parliament election in 2009 on the Swedish People's Party list. He got 14,044 votes and was not allocated a seat.[5]"Jan 05 19:38
schestowitzHis dad's site: 05 19:38
phIRCe-localTitle: Nils Torvalds - Intro .::. Size~: 2 KBJan 05 19:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] For those who are interested, Linus Torvalds' dad is now in Helsinki City Council 05 19:40
phIRCe-localTitle: Nils Torvalds - Intro .::. Size~: 2 KBJan 05 19:40
schestowitzIt all happened in recent yearsJan 05 19:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] popey snowcam! #uksnow GU14 6/10 #fbJan 05 19:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @popey you moved to the pole, eh?Jan 05 19:48
schestowitzv 05 19:51
phIRCe-localTitle: Paramount prepares to scale Dune • The Register .::. Size~: 25.56 KBJan 05 19:51
schestowitz 05 19:52
phIRCe-localTitle: 2016 bug hits Windows phones • The Register .::. Size~: 25.13 KBJan 05 19:52
schestowitzMinceR: you got one, no?Jan 05 19:52
MinceRthe bug doesn't affect mineJan 05 19:54
MinceRand i don't really get it, the news i've read seemed to say that the bug is in the telco's equipment, putting wrong dates onto messages -- maybe wm is the only mobile os that takes those timestamps seriously?Jan 05 19:55
schestowitz 05 19:58
phIRCe-localTitle: Apple to splurge $275m on mobile ad broker • The Register .::. Size~: 26.2 KBJan 05 19:58
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Webcam is a Logitech Quickcam Pro 9000 by the way.Attached to a little Viglen box running Ubuntu. Only 8W of power! 05 19:58
schestowitzThis is silly given the huge number of unnamed and unfound "planets" out there: 05 19:59
phIRCe-localTitle: NASA's Kepler telescope finds 5 new planets • The Register .::. Size~: 28.51 KBJan 05 19:59
schestowitzWe could name a star after each living person that ever lived on Earth... or at least a planet for eachJan 05 20:00
schestowitzOuch. "Opera's CEO and co-founder, Jon von Tetzchner, has stepped down from his role at the company."Jan 05 20:00
schestowitz 05 20:00
phIRCe-localTitle: Opera co-founder and CEO quits • The Register .::. Size~: 25.38 KBJan 05 20:00
schestowitzWhat would Lie say?Jan 05 20:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Staggered that the wine my mum made from grapes grown in our garden is actually pretty good!Jan 05 20:03
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sebsebsebhiJan 05 20:04
schestowitz 05 20:10
phIRCe-localTitle: Facebook offs social suicide service • The Register .::. Size~: 25.8 KBJan 05 20:10
schestowitz 05 20:10
phIRCe-localTitle: Britain's police "descending into obvious madness." Boing Boing .::. Size~: 83.16 KBJan 05 20:10
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 5 20:19:40 2010
*Now talking on #boycottnovellJan 05 20:19
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Jan 05 20:19
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Nov 29 20:53:52 2009Jan 05 20:19
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelJan 05 20:19
DaemonFCewww, TetrisJan 05 20:19
DaemonFCeww anything that Alexey Pajitnov had anything to do with for that matterJan 05 20:19
DaemonFChmm, I may have to retask some of my MP3 player's SD cardJan 05 20:21
DaemonFCOpera alone takes a third of the internal storageJan 05 20:21
schestowitzJan 05 19:46:00 <DaemonFC>The on screen Wii keyboard is good target practiceJan 05 20:22
schestowitzJan 05 19:46:19 <DaemonFC>by the time I finish setting it up, those Goomba's are goin' down to ChinatownJan 05 20:22
schestowitzJan 05 19:46:21 <DaemonFC>:PJan 05 20:22
schestowitzJan 05 19:46:42 <DaemonFC>omgJan 05 20:22
schestowitzJan 05 19:46:46 <DaemonFC>World of Goo!!!!Jan 05 20:22
DaemonFCyikesJan 05 20:22
schestowitzIt looks like good gameplayJan 05 20:22
schestowitzIt's not a "name your price" thingJan 05 20:22
DaemonFCWorld of Goo is on pretty much everything nowJan 05 20:23
DaemonFCincluding LinuxJan 05 20:23
DaemonFCI wonder how many blocks I free up by deleting those stupid introductory channelsJan 05 20:24
DaemonFC:DJan 05 20:24
DaemonFCand why do they still say "blocks" when they could just measure it in standard terms?Jan 05 20:24
schestowitz Maybe I should! I hear Mark Shuttleworth got inspiration for Ubuntu on the boat ride to Antarctica!Jan 05 20:26
phIRCe-localTitle: Alan Pope (popey) 's status on Tuesday, 05-Jan-10 19:50:40 UTC - .::. Size~: 7.5 KBJan 05 20:26
sebsebsebDaemonFC: Tetris is great!Jan 05 20:26
schestowitz 05 20:28
phIRCe-localTitle: Schneier on Security: Vatican Admits Perfect Security is Both Impossible and Undesirable .::. Size~: 33.81 KBJan 05 20:28
schestowitzI spent some hundreds of hours on tetrisJan 05 20:28
sebsebsebschestowitz: I guess it's the computer  game I have played the most, with a few versions.Jan 05 20:29
sebsebsebThey guy who started Tetris could have become pretty rich from it,  if he wasn't Russian, or something like that.  I remember I saw something on TV about Tetris once.Jan 05 20:30
DaemonFCit's limited to Flash 7 cause of AdobeJan 05 20:31
sebsebsebif he was living in USA for example, and was American, he would have maybe become quite rich from it.Jan 05 20:31
sebsebsebDaemonFC: You mean online versions of Tetris?Jan 05 20:32
DaemonFCsame problem you have on FreeBSD, you have to run the Linux version of your browser with the Linux plugin for FlashJan 05 20:32
DaemonFCno, Internet ChannelJan 05 20:32
sebsebsebah yes I read something about that, how BSD,  has to do Flash in Linux emulation mode.Jan 05 20:32
sebsebsebInternet Channel?  Uhmm your on about the WII?Jan 05 20:32
sebsebsebI guess notJan 05 20:32
DaemonFCyeah, WiiJan 05 20:33
sebsebsebwhy did I put I guess notJan 05 20:33
sebsebsebwell WII is propritaryJan 05 20:33
sebsebsebjust like Xbox and PS3 and all of that areJan 05 20:33
DaemonFCso?Jan 05 20:33
DaemonFCit's not Opera or Nintendo's faultJan 05 20:33
sebsebsebI only joined here a while ago, so not sure why your on about WIIJan 05 20:34
DaemonFCFreeBSD is FOSS and can't go past Flash 7 because Flash is non-free and it's out of their handsJan 05 20:34
sebsebseba little while agoJan 05 20:34
sebsebseband all the games for the WII are propritary?Jan 05 20:34
DaemonFCwell, yeahJan 05 20:35
DaemonFCthey'd kind of have to be to run a company and make moneyJan 05 20:35
sebsebsebwell yeah, and companies aren't really our freindsJan 05 20:35
sebsebsebfriendsJan 05 20:36
sebsebsebnot even the open source companies really?   ,but they are more so than the propritary software companiesJan 05 20:36
sebsebsebI saw two Windows 7 adverts recently, three actsaully hmmJan 05 20:37 is advertising it to the UK with a banner :(  or was, not looked recentlyJan 05 20:37
DaemonFCopen source really wouldn't work for gamesJan 05 20:37
DaemonFCunless you're just giving them awayJan 05 20:37
sebsebseband the other two adverts were rather similar,  except one was for Sony and the other was for HP.Jan 05 20:37
sebsebsebanyway WII, PS3,  Xbox 360, Windows 7, Mac,  etc, it's what I call "consumer shit"Jan 05 20:38
sebsebsebstuff that we don't actsaully need, and that is about locking us in and sucking money out of usJan 05 20:39
sebsebsebwell sometimes people actsaully need Windows or  Mac OS X, but  most computer users don't for their computer usageJan 05 20:39
DaemonFCdo you actually "need" anything but shelter, food and clothes?Jan 05 20:39
DaemonFCif you choose to spend your money on other things, are you evil?Jan 05 20:39
DaemonFCI know some would say yesJan 05 20:40
DaemonFCsome get preachy about the environment while at the same time, having 1-12 kids that will consume billions of dollars of resources during their livesJan 05 20:40
sebsebsebconsumerism means  you can spend your money on loads of stuff, that you don't really need, and from companies who have actsaully done some pretty bad things some of themJan 05 20:40
DaemonFCbut the good thing about kids is that they are biodegradableJan 05 20:41
DaemonFCso I will give them that pointJan 05 20:41
DaemonFC(joke stolen from Foamy)Jan 05 20:41
sebsebsebconsumerism is also about trying to lock people in to a companies product,  however  with food and clothes and such it's not that bad really?   ,but with computing when it comes to software, oh it isJan 05 20:42
sebsebsebonly the propritary software companies advertising on TVJan 05 20:42
sebsebsebwould love to see open source companies doing thatJan 05 20:43
DaemonFCare you a subsistence farmer?Jan 05 20:43
DaemonFCyou must be or you'd be a hypocrite to lecture meJan 05 20:43
sebsebsebDaemonFC: uhmmJan 05 20:43
sebsebsebok I am not lecturingJan 05 20:43
sebsebsebI am just sayingJan 05 20:43
DaemonFCI would think that someone of your moral stature would have a spindle tooJan 05 20:43
DaemonFCso you can sheer your own sheep and make clothingJan 05 20:44
sebsebsebseems I might have been misunderstand as well, but I don't really careJan 05 20:44
sebsebsebmisunderstoodJan 05 20:44
sebsebsebI am a bit annoyed at seeing computer adverts, that are aimed at people who hardly know anything about them.Jan 05 20:45
DaemonFCadvertisements are generally designed to inform people who don't know anything about a productJan 05 20:46
MinceRtetris is boringJan 05 20:46
DaemonFCat least enough to want to buy it without knowing why they want itJan 05 20:46
MinceRand pajitnov is an idiotJan 05 20:46
sebsebsebDaemonFC: exactly  adverts are what you said.  They don't educate someone a bit about the product the real truths, and then make them think if they want it or not.Jan 05 20:48
DaemonFC 05 20:48
DaemonFCthe goal of an advertisement is to only give you the positive aspect of any productJan 05 20:49
DaemonFCwhy would they pay to air the truth that it might blow upJan 05 20:49
DaemonFC(XBOX 360)Jan 05 20:49
sebsebsebDaemonFC: well yeah exactly what you said, hence why  the Windows 7 adverts and so on, are a load of rubbish really.Jan 05 20:50
DaemonFCDo I want this or need it? If Yes, why. What is my budget this month. How does it fit in to that? Jan 05 20:51
DaemonFCgoing through that will probably cost them most of their salesJan 05 20:51
sebsebsebnot sure why at least two of you here are anti Tetris, but  that was one of the first computer games, and it's :)Jan 05 20:51
sebsebsebMinceR:  DaemonFCJan 05 20:52
MinceRit was fun for a few minutes or hoursJan 05 20:52
DaemonFCcause it's not fun and there's no way to actually winJan 05 20:52
MinceRbut that was a long time agoJan 05 20:53
DaemonFCtherefore, it's a torture device, not a gameJan 05 20:53
MinceRand it's probably far from the first computer gamesJan 05 20:53
DaemonFCTetris is the pet rock of computer gamesJan 05 20:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] Not only does modern vinegar contain acetic acid but bottled water is loaded with dihydrogen monoxide! Nothing is safe anymore!Jan 05 20:54
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sebsebsebDaemonFC: yeah and well when it comes to software that's the difference between proprietary and opensource/freesoftware, with proprietary it's about tricking people in to buying it,  with opensource/freesoftware it's about being honest to people, about the bugs and so on.   Also  the first type is being sold for money, and all that,  the second type is about providing people with good software, and it's not a big deal if a lot of people Jan 05 20:55
sebsebsebaren't using it.  However a lot of us opensource/freesoftware people want for example Ubuntu to gain about 10% of the market.Jan 05 20:55
DaemonFCopen source tends to be one or two guys that got bored one day and wrote something that met their needsJan 05 20:55
sebsebsebwell freeware is also proprietary software, but  I meant stuff such as most of Microsoft's and Adobe's programs.Jan 05 20:56
DaemonFCif it never has a feature you want, then "at least it was free"Jan 05 20:56
DaemonFCthere's a few big FOSS projects out of thousandsJan 05 20:56
sebsebsebfree as in price, or freedom?Jan 05 20:56
DaemonFCfreedom to occupy your hard drive with all the features you want missing? :DJan 05 20:57
MinceRGNU/Linux gaining market share means that all those companies led by stupid suits will be unable to use market share as an excuse not to support itJan 05 20:57
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MinceRDaemonFC: there are several FLOSS projects offering features its proprietary competitors don't haveJan 05 20:57
MinceRDaemonFC: nobody here buys your anti-FLOSS FUDJan 05 20:57
DaemonFCsometimes I use a FOSS program that is inferior just because it's free or not using DRMJan 05 20:58
DaemonFCdoesn't mean I like itJan 05 20:58
sebsebsebDaemonFC: oh yeah your that Windows user I thinkJan 05 20:58
DaemonFCproprietary software is broken intentionally, FOSS is broken unintentionallyJan 05 20:58
sebsebsebsomeone that comes here, and uses Windows most of the time yeah, I think that's you DaemonFC ?Jan 05 20:59
DaemonFCthere's at least no malice with FOSS, I agreeJan 05 20:59
MinceRsebsebseb: he's the ex-MVP who doesn't know what he wantsJan 05 20:59
MinceRiircJan 05 20:59
sebsebsebMinceR: MVP?  Microsoft something?Jan 05 20:59
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MinceRindeedJan 05 21:00
sebsebsebto begin with  quite a bit of commercial stuff for Desktop Linux I was toldJan 05 21:01
sebsebseb,but then  loads of good open source alternatives cameJan 05 21:01
sebsebsebalso at one stage Microsoft even did a distroJan 05 21:01
sebsebsebnow days Steve Ballmer is worried about  Ubuntu and Open Office, gaining much more market shareJan 05 21:02
DaemonFCmostly Mac, but any competitor is one too manyJan 05 21:02
sebsebsebfrom what I have readJan 05 21:02
DaemonFCwhen you're a companyJan 05 21:02
MinceRdunno about that, but they do control some distrosJan 05 21:02
MinceReven if some editions of Microsoft Linux have died alreadyJan 05 21:03
sebsebsebMinceR: Microsoft control some distros?Jan 05 21:03
DaemonFCthey're more worried about RHEL than most of the othersJan 05 21:03
MinceR*suse, turbolinux, xandros, linspire (already dead)Jan 05 21:03
sebsebsebto some extent Micrsooft control  NovellJan 05 21:03
sebsebsebI guessJan 05 21:03
MinceRto some extent, yes :>Jan 05 21:03
sebsebsebthey control Xandros what?  also Linspire got  bought out by Xandros.  oh yeah and they were selling EEPC some where last year or something like this,  then the next day they are like telling people not to buy it with Linux.Jan 05 21:05
sebsebseblast year some time or maybe the year before hmmJan 05 21:05
sebsebsebMinceR: Microsoft are only  so popular still today, because most computer users don't know about the choicesJan 05 21:05
sebsebsebalso  how most software that many people want to use runs on WindowsJan 05 21:06
sebsebseb,but yes indeed once Ubuntu  etc has like 10% market share,  we will get less of this excuse,  distro name goes here, does not have enough market share, so we don't support it.Jan 05 21:06
MinceRnot only because of that, but also because of the underhanded OEM dealsJan 05 21:07
sebsebseb10% market share would be probably better split up  between a few popular distros, than only one distro having it all.  With each distro having about the same amount as well.Jan 05 21:07
MinceRdiversity is goodJan 05 21:08
sebsebsebchoice is goodJan 05 21:08
sebsebseband  enough people being given the choice, and taking that choice, when it comes to  browsers and OS's and office suites etc.  well the more competition their will be, and so programs will start to improve a lot.Jan 05 21:09
sebsebsebtake this for example,  Mozilla have an internal joke "Internet Explorer 7 the best browser we ever made"Jan 05 21:10
sebsebsebtheir wasn't going to be an IE7 for XP  originalleyJan 05 21:10
MinceRthey don't think their own browser is good?Jan 05 21:11
sebsebseb,but then Firefox started gaining quite a bit of market share, and I guess Microsoft felt slightly threatenedJan 05 21:11
sebsebsebMinceR: of course they do, read what I just putJan 05 21:11
MinceRi mean that it sucks less than IEJan 05 21:11
sebsebsebI guess they mane since market shareJan 05 21:12
sebsebsebmean/meantJan 05 21:12
sebsebsebthis was something I read by the way some articleJan 05 21:12
sebsebsebnow days Friefox has more market share than IE 7 :)Jan 05 21:12
sebsebsebor was that IE 8 or both hmmJan 05 21:12
sebsebsebMinceR: also IE 6 is horrible for people that make websites properly following web standardsJan 05 21:14
MinceRit was ff 3.5 having more than any ie _version_Jan 05 21:14
MinceRany version of ie is horrible in that wayJan 05 21:15
MinceRm$ doesn't even follow their own standards (see ooxml for that)Jan 05 21:15
sebsebsebah yes it was of any version, but  with more than one version IE still has most of that market shareJan 05 21:15
sebsebsebMinceR: there was something about ooxml and  something they did, and some Canadian company isn't happyJan 05 21:16
sebsebsebthey brake a patent or something Microsoft didJan 05 21:16
MinceRthat's another issueJan 05 21:16
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rnbmicrosoft's biggest concern is emerging marketsJan 05 21:17
rnband that's one of the most useful fronts in the free software warJan 05 21:17
rnbsince many of those countries are officially backing free software and mandating its useJan 05 21:17
rnbas those markets mature, microsoft could see its share plummetJan 05 21:18
rnbor, rather, microsoft -is- seeings its share decline as those markets matureJan 05 21:19
sebsebsebsure plus polotical reasons etcJan 05 21:19
sebsebsebnot all counteries are that keen on American companiesJan 05 21:20
sebsebsebrnb: also something about how Microsoft can't sell their software to Iran,   they were talking about that here the other dayJan 05 21:22
MinceRthat's due to usian law thoughJan 05 21:23
sebsebsebopensource/freesoftware fits in to it all really,  capitalism/consumerism,  communism,  socialism,  and also people who live in poverty that have a computer can afford it, because the price tag is FREEJan 05 21:25
sebsebseband a countrey could edit it, and make special versions for their countrey etcJan 05 21:25
sebsebsebso those are other advantages it hasJan 05 21:26
MinceRthey can also audit (and if necessary, harden it) for purposes of national securityJan 05 21:26
ThistleWebthere's always a difference between the people of a country, and the buisness / political / royal elite who make the decisions the people have to live byJan 05 21:26
MinceRwhile m$ crap is full of backdoors (some for usian authorities) and security holesJan 05 21:27
ThistleWebwhen the elite can get deals enriching themsleves even further, they tend to do so, even if it's with US moneyJan 05 21:27
sebsebsebThistleWeb: the elite hmmJan 05 21:28
sebsebsebThistleWeb: your not one of these people who think there is a group of people at the very top that control it all, are you?Jan 05 21:28
schestowitz[21:19] <rnb> or, rather, microsoft -is- seeings its share decline as those markets matureJan 05 21:29
ThistleWebin a lot of cases, the people have no say in the matter, assuming they want to remain free of painJan 05 21:29
schestowitzYes, it pretends there's no effect by funding US-only (ish) lies like Net ApplicationsJan 05 21:29
ThistleWebthere's always groups of people at the topJan 05 21:29
schestowitzIllusions can help them stifle adoption based on misconceptionJan 05 21:29
sebsebsebThistleWeb: well some think there is a group at the very top, that control the goverments and companies etcJan 05 21:30
MinceRi think the debate is only about how many groups are on the top earthwide and who are theyJan 05 21:30
schestowitzNo, they *are* companiesJan 05 21:30
schestowitzit's no secret either. They are public figuresJan 05 21:30
ThistleWebthose in the boardrooms of corps, politicians in private meetings with business partners, royalty etcJan 05 21:30
ThistleWebI dont believe there's one master group, I do think there are a lot of groups all motivated by greed to carve out their own empiresJan 05 21:31
ThistleWebthey see each other as ways to that goalJan 05 21:31
ThistleWebbuild your reputation up so you can get awarded a royal contract by being conected and therefor able to get lunch with the kingJan 05 21:32
ThistleWebwhile your competition are still being given the runaround by minro buerocrats, the contract is signed and sealedJan 05 21:32
ThistleWebminor*Jan 05 21:32
ThistleWeball of these groups worship moneyJan 05 21:33
ThistleWebthey see others with more money as groupd to ally with if their aims can be furthered, or treated as an enemy if they are a threatJan 05 21:34
ThistleWebmoney has no nationality, US money is as good as Saudi moneyJan 05 21:34
sebsebsebmoney is global yeahJan 05 21:34
ThistleWebgreed is not a western exclusiveJan 05 21:34
sebsebsebmoney  causes problems in the world to, but not much we can do about it really?Jan 05 21:35
ThistleWebin some cultures, the connections of money can be flaunted, in others it needs to be more hiddenJan 05 21:36
rnbsebsebseb: socialist revolutionJan 05 21:36
sebsebsebrnb: yeah some think  socialism  would be really good etc, but  I am not actsaully sure what these kind of words properly meanJan 05 21:36
sebsebsebplus words can have different meaningsJan 05 21:37
sebsebseband certain things can  be something different, depending on where it isJan 05 21:37
rnbsebsebseb: the 21st-century socialist revolution is latin america is on-going and has at least 10 years or so of definitionJan 05 21:37
MinceRafaik socialism is the eastern kind of dictatorshipJan 05 21:37
rnbsebsebseb: and it includes heavy reliance on free softwareJan 05 21:37
MinceRwhere a tiny elite has absolute power, while the rest of the people are slaves who aren't allowed to own anythingJan 05 21:38
rnbs/is latin america/in latin america/Jan 05 21:38
ThistleWebthe problem with every type of govt idea so far, is you have history as examples to show it in progress.....all of whom have had corrupt bastards are the top subverting it to their own aimsJan 05 21:38
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ThistleWebthe people at the top dont live by the same rules as they subject their people toJan 05 21:39
rnbThistleWeb: that's going to be true anytime there is a major power imbalance but at least socialism sets out to reverse those wrongsJan 05 21:40
sebsebsebwell all of these systems people are a slave really, in some way or the otherJan 05 21:40
ThistleWebevery idea of govt has it's flaws, it's also got plenty of really badly corrupted versions of those ideasJan 05 21:40
MinceRsocialism claims it will lead to communism and reverse those wrongsJan 05 21:40
MinceRit doesn'tJan 05 21:40
rnbThistleWeb: whereas capitalist societies openly embrace that model and seek to further it all over the worldJan 05 21:40
MinceRit can't possibly to do soJan 05 21:40
MinceRit's only propaganda to appease the slavesJan 05 21:40
ThistleWebthere's not been any decent implementation of capitalism eitherJan 05 21:41
MinceRwhat would be a decent implementation of capitalism like?Jan 05 21:41
ThistleWebfor me, no system works for everything under itJan 05 21:41
rnbi think the history of latin american socialism is a history of a quality form of government, intended to eventually do away with government altogetherJan 05 21:41
MinceRthe russians said that too, afaikJan 05 21:41
MinceRand so did the chineseJan 05 21:42
ThistleWebthere needs to be a blend to protect some stuff, while letting others flourish or failJan 05 21:42
MinceRThistleWeb: what for?Jan 05 21:42
ThistleWebcapitalism is based on the concept that greed will motivate to get the best for the moneyJan 05 21:42
ThistleWebwhich means upping the selling price and lowering costs to workers and suppliersJan 05 21:43
sebsebsebcapitalism as far as I know is about power and making money, it's not about people working together as a team to do interesting things,  with them sharing the real truths about what they have done to other people, so they can also benefit from itJan 05 21:43
ThistleWebto get more of the middle bit (the profit) for yourselfJan 05 21:43
rnbsebsebseb: agreedJan 05 21:43
ThistleWebit's also based on the idea that the consumer will keep it in check by voting with their wallets if a service is not value for moneyJan 05 21:44
sebsebseboh and this consumerism things seems to go with all of those systems, but why?  ,because people are lazy, and just want it it all?Jan 05 21:44
ThistleWebwhich means the consumer must first be able to judge that form themselves, and have a cjoice to moveJan 05 21:44
sebsebsebin the old days, people used to hunt, and grow their own food a lot etc.  yes we have moved on since then, but  it's not all been good really.Jan 05 21:44
ThistleWebthe system we have now, has many large corps in monopoly positions, providing essensial services so people cant move, as well as hiding the details behind lots of small text that we cant easily compare to see if we are getting value for moneyJan 05 21:45
ThistleWebpublic services should not be run exclusively by a capitalist systemJan 05 21:46
ThistleWebfine, have them as a premium option if people see extra value in themJan 05 21:47
schestowitzMinceR: the Soviets just exploited it to gain powerJan 05 21:47
schestowitzSocialism!=communismJan 05 21:47
sebsebseboh and capitalistic society goverments, and their promises on how they will change this and that, if they are in power, but  really none of them,  will improve society as a whole.  ,because old ways that are  holding us back, will stayJan 05 21:47
MinceRi knowJan 05 21:47
MinceRiirc the propaganda was that socialism will naturally lead to communismJan 05 21:47
MinceRwhich of course it can't doJan 05 21:47
schestowitzAnd Stalin was not a Marxist, he was a mass-murdering paranoidJan 05 21:47
sebsebseband they want everyone that can to work, but their aren't enough jobs for everyone.  and the young are at a disadvantage, because they have to compete for jobs with those that are older and more experiencedJan 05 21:48
ThistleWeblive by the sword, die by the if a company run for profit fails and collapses, so be itJan 05 21:48
schestowitzBeaten by his dad as a kid.Jan 05 21:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] ¡ǝɯosǝʍɐ sʞooן ʇxǝʇ sıɥʇ ¡uɐɯJan 05 21:48
schestowitzEven Lenin worried about Stalin, but failed to warn about it just before he diedJan 05 21:48
schestowitz "The phone mounts a laggy Linux based operating system that’s not worthy of the smartphone tag."Jan 05 21:48
schestowitzMeh.Jan 05 21:48
schestowitzMinceR: India and Sweden are socialist nationsJan 05 21:48
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MinceRlast time i checked, they weren'tJan 05 21:49
ThistleWeblike any of these systems, the devil is in the detailJan 05 21:49
ThistleWebas well as the intentJan 05 21:49
schestowitzSweden is one of the more advanced societies when it comes to theism (low), economics, manner, etc.Jan 05 21:49
rnbschestowitz: eh? neither of those countries are socialistJan 05 21:49
sebsebsebThistleWeb: hmm you think the devil controls it all really?Jan 05 21:49
ThistleWeblolJan 05 21:49
rnbkerala is a state in india and it has consistently elected the communist party into power for that stateJan 05 21:49
MinceRsweden is not even a constitutional state, it's northern balkanJan 05 21:49
rnbbut, still, india as a whole is a capitalist countryJan 05 21:50
schestowitz 05 21:50
MinceRsee their gross ignorance of their own law in the TPB caseJan 05 21:50
phIRCe-localTitle: WikiAnswers - Is Sweden a Socialist country .::. Size~: 57.46 KBJan 05 21:50
ThistleWebevery system we've seen, past and present, has the top elite convincing the public it's something it's notJan 05 21:50
oiaohmZimbra one I am not sure if we should be worried about vmware having it or not.  schestowitz Its all what department of vmware it ends up under.  If it ends up in the same department as Galuim3d we have nothing to worry about.Jan 05 21:50
ThistleWebbecause they're building a system that they can get rich fromJan 05 21:50
schestowitzrnb: yes, the banksters from the US 'taught' India how to run the economyJan 05 21:50
schestowitzIt was hystericalJan 05 21:50
schestowitzLet me find a video about it..Jan 05 21:50
ThistleWebthey dont want the plebs to find out how much they're being shaftedJan 05 21:51
schestowitzoiaohm: I figured that..  what about SpringSource?Jan 05 21:51
rnbschestowitz: india suffered the same IMF/World Bank fate as almost all other post-colonial countriesJan 05 21:51
rnbThistleWeb: thats not true about the latin american socialist systemsJan 05 21:51
schestowitzOh, here: :-DJan 05 21:51
sebsebseba lot of illegal imigrants from Africa are going to South America nowJan 05 21:52
sebsebsebsince they can't just get into Europe anymoreJan 05 21:52
DaemonFCpayback's a bitchJan 05 21:52
schestowitzDaemonFC: you're payback? :-)Jan 05 21:52
MinceR:)Jan 05 21:52
ThistleWebrnb: really? Most of the latin american systems I see involve the leaders doing deals with foreign companys to make the politicians rich, while the population get removed from land etcJan 05 21:52
sebsebsebalso they are being more welcome in South America,  or that's the impression I got from the BBC thing I sawJan 05 21:52
DaemonFCthey sent us all their undesirables for the last few decadesJan 05 21:53
sebsebseblet's just  check this,  latian America means South America?Jan 05 21:53
schestowitz"Give me your poor, your maimed..."Jan 05 21:53
rnbThistleWeb: land reform is a key part of the latin american socialist platformJan 05 21:53
rnbThistleWeb: like the MST in BrazilJan 05 21:53
DaemonFCit's kind of funny that they're now getting illegal immigrants that are undesirable by their standardsJan 05 21:53
schestowitzMiss Liberty got grumpy thoughJan 05 21:53
schestowitzNow she's protesting the bankers in NYCJan 05 21:53
DaemonFCschestowitz: Yesh, we should really change thatJan 05 21:53
ThistleWeball I see is Chavez standing up to the US, albeit in a childish wayJan 05 21:53
DaemonFCsomething nice, short and to the pointJan 05 21:53
DaemonFClike "Fuck Off"Jan 05 21:54
DaemonFCwrite it in SpanishJan 05 21:54
rnbsebsebseb: latin america = south & central america + caribbean Jan 05 21:54
oiaohm  Some of the arguements you see.   Fool walking.   If a person who is not secured not approved can get into a sercure area you have the wrong doors.Jan 05 21:54
phIRCe-localTitle: Fixing a Security Problem Isn't Always the Right Answer | threatpost .::. Size~: 67.71 KBJan 05 21:54
sebsebsebDaemonFC: well they want to come to the USA  a lot of them, according to BBCJan 05 21:54
DaemonFCmaybe "We're fresh out of welfare"Jan 05 21:54
rnbThistleWeb: "childish"? he does it in a hilarious way, calling out all of our politicians for what they areJan 05 21:54
ThistleWebI see DaSilva in Brasil trying to reverse stuff in favour of the people but struggling against an entreched systemJan 05 21:54
schestowitzKing Juan Carlos to Chávez: "Shut up" (ENGLISH SUBTITLES) < >Jan 05 21:54
ThistleWebother than those, I most often see leaders the people ellect being ousted by the CIA, and a US freindly puppet installed insteadJan 05 21:55
rnbah, the fascist-loving king of spainJan 05 21:55
sebsebsebrnb: thanks,  I was thinking it would mean Central AmericaJan 05 21:55
rnba real hero for the agesJan 05 21:55
schestowitzMr. bean and Chavez.....Jan 05 21:55
schestowitzMr Bean replaces Spanish PM on EU presidency site Jan 05 21:56
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ThistleWebI like chavez, I just wish he was a little more mature in how he does thingsJan 05 21:56
rnbThistleWeb: you need to look at the foro de sao paulo countries, those are the ones that are setting up the future for the other latam countriesJan 05 21:56
rnb"mature" ?Jan 05 21:56
ThistleWebgrown up if you preferJan 05 21:57
rnbneither make senseJan 05 21:57
ThistleWebdictionaries are useful thingsJan 05 21:57
rnbi know what the words meanJan 05 21:58
rnbit doesn't make sense how they apply to chavezJan 05 21:58
ThistleWebwhen diplomats and world leaders meet, they act like grown upsJan 05 21:58
rnbthey do?Jan 05 21:58
rnbi guess you've never been to a diplomatic gathering :)Jan 05 21:58
ThistleWebnah, I was born yesterdayJan 05 21:59
ThistleWebit was cold then tooJan 05 21:59
schestowitzOnly if the cameras are on :-)Jan 05 22:00
ThistleWebI see both him and ahmadinijad as acting like children in the diplomatic arenaJan 05 22:00
schestowitzYou can find videos of them in less public settingsJan 05 22:00
ThistleWebwhich is not the way to win support and influence peopleJan 05 22:00
schestowitzThistleWeb: just _Acting like_?Jan 05 22:00
schestowitzBush with remarks like "bring em on!"Jan 05 22:01
rnbThistleWeb: you have an example of some time when chavez acted like a child in the diplomatic arena?Jan 05 22:01
schestowitzI bet he's watching cartoon in the limo on his way to the white house, like 10-y-o Michael Jackson.Jan 05 22:01
schestowitzHe saw "the bad guys" in the cartoons. "Get em!!"Jan 05 22:01
ThistleWebbush is not a great example lolJan 05 22:01
schestowitzThistleWeb: I never saw Chavez acting childishJan 05 22:02
schestowitzSHow an example plsJan 05 22:02
schestowitzBTW: Has Google already unveiled TurdOne?Jan 05 22:02
ThistleWebI'm guessing we both have different views of "childish" then, as someone just posted a youtube clipJan 05 22:02
schestowitzThistleWeb: George Wayne [sic] FTWJan 05 22:03
ThistleWebhang on, that was the other way roundJan 05 22:03
rnbthat was the king of spain acting like a childJan 05 22:03
ThistleWebyeah, my badJan 05 22:03
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schestowitzPresident Bush -- Fool me Once < >Jan 05 22:03
_Goblin_hi all....Jan 05 22:03
ThistleWebthe other joke in the pack is berlusconiJan 05 22:04
ThistleWebhey _Goblin_ Jan 05 22:04
_Goblin_ah....a politics discussion...I better stay clear!Jan 05 22:04
_Goblin_can I just say though:Jan 05 22:05
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oiaohmschestowitz: SpringSource is not that big of worry.  Almost all SpringSources projects are worked on by Orcale IBM and Redhat Developers.  Even if vmware want to screw up what it was working on there are enough full time developers there to fork and keep on going.Jan 05 22:05
_Goblin_George Galloway is the only person who has any integrity in the world of politics..Jan 05 22:05
_Goblin_(IMHO)Jan 05 22:06
rnbyay, George Galloway! :)Jan 05 22:06
rnbhe kicks assJan 05 22:06
ThistleWebyeah, meowing like a catJan 05 22:06
_Goblin_great man....Jan 05 22:06
ThistleWebnah, galloway does a lot rightJan 05 22:06
_Goblin_that "cat" thing actually to me shows his integrity.Jan 05 22:06
ThistleWebhe has a sense of indefaticabilityJan 05 22:06
rnbi interviewed george gallowayJan 05 22:06
rnbwhen he came hereJan 05 22:06
_Goblin_he does not put on any false front or is concerned with what people think about him....Jan 05 22:07
_Goblin_rnb: Really?  excellent!Jan 05 22:07
_Goblin_how come, you a journalist?Jan 05 22:07
schestowitzJan 05 22:07
rnb_Goblin_: sometimesJan 05 22:07
schestowitz[22:04] <ThistleWeb> the other joke in the pack is berlusconiJan 05 22:07
schestowitzDid you see him pick his nose?Jan 05 22:07
schestowitzLike Brown?Jan 05 22:07
ThistleWebschestowitz: I saw him playing hide and seek behind the pillarsJan 05 22:08
rnb_Goblin_: freelance but i dont really do that anymoreJan 05 22:08
ThistleWebhe has regular episodesJan 05 22:08
_Goblin_rnb: Ive met him (only to shake his hand) but he's a great people person and I think his message of respect is the way forward...Jan 05 22:08
schestowitzThistleWeb: with his kids?Jan 05 22:08
_Goblin_and also what expenses claims did he make?  none.Jan 05 22:09
rnbwell, and george galloway is a socialistJan 05 22:09
ThistleWebschestowitz: if I remember right it was preparing for a photocall with other leadersJan 05 22:09
schestowitzThistleWeb: 05 22:10
_Goblin_rnb: Traditionally (or stereotypically) I shouldn't support George, but he opened my eyes on many subjects.Jan 05 22:10
oiaohm  Nice.Jan 05 22:11
ThistleWebCHEWIE!Jan 05 22:11
phIRCe-localTitle: Linux and Whatever  » Blog Archive   » Laptop powered by AA Batteries .::. Size~: 6.89 KBJan 05 22:11
schestowitzBerlusconi Attack 05 22:11
ThistleWebI mean "chewy"Jan 05 22:11
_Goblin_Roy, Daryl has been hitting my site hard over the last day...Jan 05 22:11
rnb 05 22:16
rnbnow you can all be 21st-century socialists in the Fifth InternationalJan 05 22:17
rnbafter you watch those videos..Jan 05 22:17
schestowitz_Goblin_: it means you bother MicrosoftJan 05 22:19
schestowitzTheir shills gravitate towards 'troublemakers' who won't report them to the FTCJan 05 22:19
schestowitzI think some Microsoft trolls got the message when I started writing lettersJan 05 22:20
schestowitzrnb: I'll spend an hour watching some......Jan 05 22:20
schestowitzback in a moJan 05 22:20
rnbviva la revolucionJan 05 22:21
_Goblin_schestowitz: What gets me is that he can blatantly lie about my views when all a reader has to do is look at a couple of comments earlier and see he is telling lies....whats the point?Jan 05 22:24
ThistleWebpeople rely on others having a short...where was I? uhm......hang on it'll come to-OH that's it, short attention spansJan 05 22:29
ThistleWebthey play to the peanut gallery, who often skip all but the summary, then enjoy the arguments in the commentsJan 05 22:30
rnb_Goblin_: url?Jan 05 22:31
_Goblin_sorry afkJan 05 22:34
_Goblin_Daryl pops up mostly in this post:Jan 05 22:34
_Goblin_Jan 05 22:34
_Goblin_ 05 22:34
phIRCe-localTitle: Microsoft  Your culture will adapt to service us?  Its all about probes! (patent 20090327171) «  OPEN BYTES  cave quid dicis, quando, et cui. .::. Size~: 90.15 KBJan 05 22:34
_Goblin_but he's been disrupting others too...Jan 05 22:35
Omar87_hi all.Jan 05 22:36
oiaohmTo be good its nice that MS is watching OpenOffice.Jan 05 22:38
oiaohmThat means they most likely don't have there eyes on kofficeJan 05 22:38
rnbdid you know that the brazilian federal government mandated that all federal offices switch to an ubuntu desktop using openoffice?Jan 05 22:43
rnbthe latest versions of openoffice have been really goodJan 05 22:44
schestowitzMorales says the US bribes people in Bolivia to overthrow him. 05 22:44
rnbschestowitz: that is trueJan 05 22:44
schestowitzWhy is this not on CNN? (rhetoric)Jan 05 22:44
rnbessentially, thats what the NED isJan 05 22:45
schestowitzTaxpayers unknowingly attack democracy oevrseasJan 05 22:45
rnbindeedJan 05 22:45
schestowitzrnb: OOo 3.2 is out soonJan 05 22:45
schestowitzOOOo (Oracle OOo)Jan 05 22:46
*gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) has left #boycottnovellJan 05 22:57
*magentar has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))Jan 05 22:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] OMFG identifox is SHIT, it steals fucking focus, causing unwanted keyboard shortcuts and your fucking blog post vanishes as you're workingJan 05 23:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @ThistleWeb no autosave?Jan 05 23:25
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jan 05 23:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #uksnow E17 6/10 Freda looking out window "'Now! More 'now! Yay!" Skating to work tomorrow.Jan 05 23:31
sebsebsebWhat you people think of this?Jan 05 23:33
sebsebseb 05 23:34
phIRCe-localTitle: Linux Today - Risks for Italian Public Education in Government/Microsoft deal .::. Size~: 80.75 KBJan 05 23:34
schestowitzsebsebseb: it was mentioned in BN and discussedJan 05 23:45
schestowitz+links for background on illegal MS deals in ITJan 05 23:45
schestowitzIT=ItalyJan 05 23:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] I can so see @_soliloquy_ doing number 10 05 23:45
phIRCe-localTitle: 15 Insane Weddings That Have Ever Taken Place .::. Size~: 41.79 KBJan 05 23:45
sebsebsebschestowitz: well  a guy I gave the link to, didn't like itJan 05 23:46
schestowitzNobody likes news about corruptionJan 05 23:47
schestowitzI consider this story one of the important ones, which is why I had to write about it. Some dude installing a distro is a lot less important (one person versus population distorted by back room dealings)Jan 05 23:48
schestowitzLots of stuff to microblog about now :-)Jan 05 23:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Fedora #GNU #Linux Breaks a World Record 05 23:57
phIRCe-localTitle: Pi Computation Record .::. Size~: 3.2 KBJan 05 23:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RealNetworks Buys Some #Linux Expertise 05 23:58
phIRCe-localTitle: RealNetworks acquires Varia Mobile - FierceMobileContent .::. Size~: 40.64 KBJan 05 23:58

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