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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: January 26th, 2010

ziggyfishcubezzz, Jan 26 00:07
phIRCe-BNcTitle: 1,000,000 cubes optimally solved | Domain of the Cube Forum .::. Size~: 13.32 KBJan 26 00:07
ziggyfishthat's a nice articleJan 26 00:07
cubezzzyes, it's hardcore :)Jan 26 00:08
cubezzzhmmm, what is Tom talking about thenJan 26 00:08
cubezzzobviously you guys can see it okJan 26 00:08
cubezzzstill 1 million cubes is a drop in the bucketJan 26 00:09
ziggyfishI thought you would of been able to do more than 20 cubes per minute with a core i7.Jan 26 00:11
cubezzzthat's fast actuallyJan 26 00:11
Diablo-D3loli7Jan 26 00:12
ziggyfishI might give it a go, and see I can beat that.Jan 26 00:13
Diablo-D3 26 00:15
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Bill Gates says U.S. recovery to take years, taxes rise - Yahoo! News .::. Size~: 107.73 KBJan 26 00:15
Diablo-D3seeJan 26 00:15
Diablo-D3this is one of the few times bill gates and I agreeJan 26 00:15
cubezzzthat's stupid if the trend micro software is blocking my siteJan 26 00:17
cubezzzI told him to use a linux box then :)Jan 26 00:17
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TheMadHatterRoy, you around?Jan 26 00:21
schestowitzYesJan 26 00:23
TheMadHatterOK. Suggestion. Split up the Bill Gates information into several pages. One for taxes, one for investments, etc., so that it's easier to find things.Jan 26 00:23
TheMadHatterGood morning!Jan 26 00:23
schestowitzI told ender2070_ to read/subs to your blog some hours agoJan 26 00:23
TheMadHatterHeh. Did you see the newest?Jan 26 00:24
schestowitzDiablo-D3: BillG is an economist now?Jan 26 00:24
schestowitzWhat is he /NOT/?Jan 26 00:24
TheMadHatterHeh. Bill is a crook. Nothing more. Jan 26 00:25
schestowitzBut hey, he robbed a lot of people, he has a stash, so he must be very, very shrewd... like a foxJan 26 00:25
schestowitzTheMadHatter: for contextJan 26 00:25
schestowitz[00:12] <Diablo-D3> loli7Jan 26 00:25
schestowitz[00:13] <ziggyfish> I might give it a go, and see I can beat that.Jan 26 00:25
schestowitz[00:15] <Diablo-D3> 26 00:25
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Bill Gates says U.S. recovery to take years, taxes rise - Yahoo! News .::. Size~: 107.94 KBJan 26 00:25
schestowitz[00:15] <phIRCe-BNc> Title: Bill Gates says U.S. recovery to take years, taxes rise - Yahoo! News .::. Size~: 107.73 KBJan 26 00:25
schestowitz[00:15] <Diablo-D3> seeJan 26 00:25
schestowitz[00:15] <Diablo-D3> this is one of the few times bill gates and I agreeJan 26 00:25
schestowitzTheMadHatter: I saw the newest post as of 10pm my timeJan 26 00:26
schestowitzI'm well behind news wideJan 26 00:26
schestowitzAnd away some of next weekJan 26 00:26
TheMadHatterCorporate Copyright Scofflaws?Jan 26 00:26
schestowitzMaybe. I read too fast to remember titlesJan 26 00:26
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schestowitzI organised and refactored the feeds around xmas.....Jan 26 00:27
TheMadHatterHard to keep up with everything that's happening. Make that impossible.Jan 26 00:27
schestowitzYes, and I expanded scopeJan 26 00:27
schestowitzI considered taking my eyes off MicrosoftJan 26 00:28
schestowitzThey are committing suicide anywayJan 26 00:28
TheMadHatterI've had to cut back. Otherwise I'll never get anything done. Jan 26 00:28
TheMadHatterThey are the same as the big 4 recording companies, trying to hold onto a business that they cannot compete in anymore.Jan 26 00:29
TheMadHatterBut they can do some damage before they crash. I see the same things, lobbying, political payoffs, etc. happening both with Microsoft and the Record labels.Jan 26 00:31
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TheMadHattergotta run - food.Jan 26 00:35
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schestowitz 26 01:02
phIRCe-BNcTitle: AndroidSPIN | You heard it here, first, on AndroidSPIN. Your No.1 source for Android news.  » Blog Archive   » The Android Open Source Mystery! .::. Size~: 64.14 KBJan 26 01:02
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @mparent77772 "Straw's biggest lie the heart of the Q of whether the war was legal" http:// (eyewitness) #uk #iraqJan 26 01:09
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @mparent77772 "Straw's biggest lie the heart of the Q of whether the #war was legal" (eyewitness) #uk #iraqJan 26 01:12
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Craig Murray - Jack Straw's Biggest Lie .::. Size~: 86.77 KBJan 26 01:12
ziggyfishanyway guys, happy Australia day, I'm off for the next couple of hoursJan 26 01:14
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DaemonFC 26 01:33
phIRCe-BNcTitle: One day after latest fix, Microsoft investigates new IE flaw .::. Size~: 27.86 KBJan 26 01:33
schestowitzOld newsJan 26 01:34
schestowitz 26 01:36
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Red Hat launches community site - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 29.9 KBJan 26 01:36
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schestowitzHeh. deceiving headline: 26 01:39
phIRCe-BNcTitle: An open letter to the new NSA: India News .::. Size~: 31.24 KBJan 26 01:39
schestowitzNo uch agency]Jan 26 01:39
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schestowitz 26 02:06
phIRCe-BNcTitle: So long and thanks for all the Geekos! »  Dissociated Press .::. Size~: 46.78 KBJan 26 02:06
schestowitz"Your shoes will be nearly impossible to fill at Novell, but I hope OpenSUSE replaces you with someone who is as dedicated and committed to FOSS as you are. I'm looking forward to seeing who has the smarts to hire you, and see you soon."Jan 26 02:06
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DaemonFCschestowitz: Best Buy is now printing deceptive coupon adsJan 26 02:10
DaemonFCthey have an ad that says $10 off Sandisk MP3 players, so you click on it and what they really meant was the player is full price but they'll sell you a slotradio (DRM'd microSD full of music) for $10 offJan 26 02:11
schestowitzThis is why I love Firefox....... 26 02:17
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Mozilla takes on YouTube video choice | Deep Tech - CNET News .::. Size~: 61.57 KBJan 26 02:17
schestowitzThey refuse to work for the "MPEG cartel"; instead they do what the FSF could not do alone.Jan 26 02:18
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: wbJan 26 02:18
schestowitzWe've had all your tweets hereJan 26 02:19
schestowitzDaemonFC: This is also why I keep telling people to support Mozilla and not go astray to Google and other faux source browsers.Jan 26 02:19
ender2070_I don't think they'll rule out extensions for those who want to ignore the patents, lolJan 26 02:19
schestowitz 26 02:20
phIRCe-BNcTitle: [Phoronix] GIMP 2.8 Scheduled For Release Post-Christmas .::. Size~: 15.29 KBJan 26 02:20
schestowitzDid you sign the petition?Jan 26 02:20
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: hiJan 26 02:22
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] #Skype, please stop using 100% of one cpu. You're not *doing* anything.Jan 26 02:25
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @qu1j0t3 Maybe you're assigned "supernode"Jan 26 02:26
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @torontoist What's going on? RT @TorontoStar: Pedestrian death tolls rises to 14 in #GTA // tragic. good questionJan 26 02:28
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Pedestrian death tolls rises to 14 in the GTA - .::. Size~: 58.68 KBJan 26 02:28
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sebsebsebHiJan 26 02:30
FurnaceBoythat rate of pedestrian deaths is twice the usual *total* homicide rate.Jan 26 02:30
FurnaceBoyfor GTA.Jan 26 02:30
FurnaceBoy(5.5 million ppl)Jan 26 02:31
*FurnaceBoy scratches headJan 26 02:32
schestowitzSarah Palin In GOP Cabal With Rove, Cheney 26 02:34
FurnaceBoyduh :)Jan 26 02:34
FurnaceBoyshe's a Rovian device. 100% pure uncut cynicism.Jan 26 02:34
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: Palin can't be criticised by men. 26 02:37
schestowitzIt makes them jealous, misogynist, or sexist, blah blah..Jan 26 02:37
DaemonFC$5 million to license MPEG for Firefox and it would only cover people on Windows and MacJan 26 02:37
DaemonFCthat's bullshitJan 26 02:37
ender2070_theora is much betterJan 26 02:38
DaemonFCthere's no good explanation Google can give for this, so they're refusing to comment at allJan 26 02:38
ender2070_its very oddJan 26 02:38
ender2070_google has stakes in the tech behind theoraJan 26 02:39
DaemonFCthey should be promoting Theora and encouraging people to abandon IE and Safari or to install Chrome TabJan 26 02:40
DaemonFCtake a moment to point out why those browsers are defective and need the Chrome Tab pluginJan 26 02:40
DaemonFCApple and Microsoft treat anything the public can use without asking for permission like the plagueJan 26 02:41
DaemonFCthey'll be damned if they'll have any part in supporting itJan 26 02:41
DaemonFCthat's where ALAC came from (Apple Lossless Audio Codec) and WMAL (WMA Lossless)Jan 26 02:41
DaemonFCthey insist on having their own proprietary tool that's less efficient and entraps the userJan 26 02:42
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] #Avatar actor called the story "original" in behind-the-scenes video *cough* Nice tech tho #moviesJan 26 02:42
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Avatar - kevin roebuck's blog .::. Size~: 18.26 KBJan 26 02:42
DaemonFCobviously the entrapment doesn't work as well when the codec is lossless, but it does maybe prevent the user from encountering better options on their ownJan 26 02:43
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: nice. 26 02:43
phIRCe-BNcTitle: This Modern World - .::. Size~: 47.44 KBJan 26 02:43
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @tomtomorrow New (actually rerun) cartoon: language is a virus! // retweet with a bulletJan 26 02:43
phIRCe-BNcTitle: This Modern World - .::. Size~: 47.44 KBJan 26 02:43
DaemonFCI've tried ALAC and WMAL out of morbid curiosity and found that you're liable to get 10-15% worse compression out of either of them than FLACJan 26 02:44
DaemonFCand 20% less than WavPackJan 26 02:44
ender2070_google should make chrome tab for firefoxJan 26 02:44
FurnaceBoy"Bill Gates dropped by The New York Times on Monday to discuss his full-time job as head of the Gates Foundation, the world?s largest philanthropy, especially its work in global health and development." Jan 26 02:44
ender2070_then you could stay with firefox and use a chrome tab for youtubeJan 26 02:44
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] ViBGYOR 2010 Short And #Documentary Festival Film selection list is out 26 02:44
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Vibgyor2010 Selection List with T Schedule .::. Size~: 47.19 KBJan 26 02:44
FurnaceBoy // this should be fun.Jan 26 02:44
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 26 02:44
FurnaceBoy"Mr. Gates was on his way to the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, where he is expected to announce an expansion of the foundation?s vaccine programs in poor nations."Jan 26 02:45
DaemonFCit's pretty sick how corporations with so much money to design something that works keep ending up coming back with something shittier than a thing put out by hobbyistsJan 26 02:45
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: 40,000 engineers at Microsoft.Jan 26 02:45
ender2070_40,000 different wheelsJan 26 02:45
DaemonFCso I have to dedicate 1/5th more storage if I decide to use Microsoft or Apple lossless codecsJan 26 02:46
DaemonFCthat's kind of unreasonablJan 26 02:46
DaemonFC*unreasonableJan 26 02:46
FurnaceBoy 26 02:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Software Project Failure: The Reasons, The Costs &mdash; .::. Size~: 78.72 KBJan 26 02:46
DaemonFClossless files are already pretty massive anyway, and if their codecs can't even give me significant compression vs leaving them as WAV, why use it?Jan 26 02:46
DaemonFCender2070_: Theora is disappointing as implemented by things like VLC, but that's an older version of the codecJan 26 02:48
DaemonFCTheora 1.1 is on par with anything h.264 is likely to produceJan 26 02:48
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: 26 02:48
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft, SCM and Large Projects | Robert Cowham's Blog .::. Size~: 21.87 KBJan 26 02:48
DaemonFCit comes down to way pay to get equally good results you could have enjoyed for freeJan 26 02:49
DaemonFC*whyJan 26 02:49
DaemonFCGoogle should be pushing Theora, they are the 800 pound gorilla here, Apple doesn't have a Youtube, neither does MicrosoftJan 26 02:49
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: more pointedly, 26 02:50
phIRCe-BNcTitle: moblog: The Windows Shutdown crapfest .::. Size~: 299.45 KBJan 26 02:50
DaemonFCthis would be a perfect chance to cripple IE and SafariJan 26 02:50
DaemonFCthey'd have millions more Chrome and Firefox users overnight if Youtube did not support h.264Jan 26 02:51
DaemonFCit does baffle me why they are doing things that are good for Microsoft and AppleJan 26 02:51
DaemonFCyou know IE 9 is going to try to support MPEG-4 and Windows Media exclusivelyJan 26 02:51
DaemonFCtry to get people to embed WMV in <video>Jan 26 02:52
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Why #Microsoft flails & fails "I spent a full year working on a [#Vista] feature which should've been [done] in a week" 26 02:53
phIRCe-BNcTitle: moblog: The Windows Shutdown crapfest .::. Size~: 299.45 KBJan 26 02:53
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: "If you step back too far, [Vista] doesn’t look very impressive at all: It’s like XP with a spit-shine." - ThurrottJan 26 02:53
DaemonFCmore like "looks like someone took a giant shit on top of XP"Jan 26 02:54
DaemonFC8-)Jan 26 02:54
DaemonFCI remember seeing the RTM of Vista, or as I like to call it, the WTF build of VistaJan 26 02:55
DaemonFCas in WTF happened since Beta 2?Jan 26 02:55
DaemonFCthe beta was fast, like as in, faster than XP, then within the span of a couple months, you get RC2 which performed as poorly as the RTMJan 26 02:56
DaemonFCI'll be damned if I can tell you what they did, I was running it just fine on a Sempron 3100+ with 1 GB of RAM and a Geforce 6200 with 256 MBJan 26 02:57
DaemonFCand then it just dropped like a brickJan 26 02:57
DaemonFCWinFS is another sack of worms entirelyJan 26 02:58
DaemonFCfinally in Windows 7 it boils down to "Libraries" which are just glorified symlinksJan 26 02:58
FurnaceBoywhy did you waste time with itJan 26 02:58
DaemonFCthey drive you crazy though because you always forget and try to save files there just to have Windows tell you that you can'tJan 26 02:58
DaemonFCI tried WinFS (the real WinFS) atop Windows XP and Server 2003 EnterpriseJan 26 02:59
DaemonFCit was slowJan 26 02:59
DaemonFCfelt like it cut your file access times in halfJan 26 02:59
DaemonFCI'm certain that's why they gave up on itJan 26 02:59
DaemonFCa database on top of their file system is out of the questionJan 26 03:00
DaemonFCthey should scrap NTFS and make a new filesystem with a database built-inJan 26 03:00
DaemonFCthey won't, but they shouldJan 26 03:00
DaemonFCit is impressive what they've done within the confines of NTFS though, such as the self healing partJan 26 03:01
FurnaceBoydoes anyone care what they do?Jan 26 03:01
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @cvvalencia Today in #crime: Über-thief Gates visits NYT. When money talks,they write it down via @zimbalist @nytjimJan 26 03:01
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Bits Blog - .::. Size~: 59.95 KBJan 26 03:01
DaemonFCthe system locks out only what it's repairing and doesn't make you wait through a really long chkdsk while the whole volume can't be mountedJan 26 03:01
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: ZFS has no fsck.Jan 26 03:01
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: this stuff is not new, why wait 30 years for Microsoft to catch up to the state of the art?Jan 26 03:02
DaemonFCext2 was a nightmareJan 26 03:02
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: get out of the ghettoJan 26 03:02
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: of course, all write-in-place filesystems are obsolete Jan 26 03:02
DaemonFCcould make you wait for HOURS before the system was allowed to bootJan 26 03:02
DaemonFCXFS has fast fsck because it's willing to give a clean bill of health to a corrupted file systemJan 26 03:03
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: if your hardware functions correctly ZFS is always consistent.Jan 26 03:04
DaemonFChalf your data could be gone, but as long as the volume is consistent, fsck will pass it with flying colorsJan 26 03:04
DaemonFCthat's why Google went with Ext4 over XFS, I know it isJan 26 03:04
FurnaceBoymaybe.Jan 26 03:04
FurnaceBoytheir situation is different from nearly everyone else's.Jan 26 03:04
FurnaceBoyit's silly to extrapolate much from their choiceJan 26 03:05
FurnaceBoythey only tested a small subset of available filesystemsJan 26 03:05
DaemonFCI wouldn't trust XFS in Google's situation, they could sneeze and lose terabytes of dataJan 26 03:05
FurnaceBoycopy-on-write probably makes no sense for them.Jan 26 03:05
FurnaceBoyso they didn't test any COW systems.Jan 26 03:05
FurnaceBoybut COW is the only way to have any integrity guaranteesJan 26 03:06
ender2070_<FurnaceBoy> DaemonFC: ZFS has no fsck.Jan 26 03:06
ender2070_doesnt need itJan 26 03:06
FurnaceBoycorrect, if drive functions properly.Jan 26 03:06
ender2070_error correction is done on the flyJan 26 03:06
FurnaceBoyif drive doesn't function properly then you are screwed anyway.Jan 26 03:06
FurnaceBoyyes, i'm very familiar with ZFS. :)Jan 26 03:07
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC may not be.Jan 26 03:07
ender2070_if the drive doesn't function, it lets you knowJan 26 03:07
DaemonFCthe only file systems I've ever had data corruption problems with are FAT32 and XFSJan 26 03:07
FurnaceBoyender2070_: i'm referring to flushJan 26 03:07
ender2070_it automatically tries to recover from any mirrors availableJan 26 03:07
DaemonFCthat's me thoughJan 26 03:07
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: all write-in-place filesystems rely on dumb luckJan 26 03:07
ender2070_I have a ZFS system I use as a fileserverJan 26 03:07
FurnaceBoyender2070_: my colo uses it. I wouldn't spec a server without it.Jan 26 03:07
ender2070_i've had a 640gb drive die, and I replaced it while the machine was onJan 26 03:07
ender2070_:)Jan 26 03:08
DaemonFCwhat I don't get is why ReactOS is insisting on using NTFS via NTFS-3GJan 26 03:08
DaemonFCI'd just use Ext4 and have done with itJan 26 03:08
FurnaceBoythat may save them a lot of workJan 26 03:08
FurnaceBoyReactOS are taking a newly pragmatic approachJan 26 03:08
FurnaceBoywhich is probably wiseJan 26 03:08
DaemonFCnothing but disk utilities are going to care what the file system is, right?Jan 26 03:08
FurnaceBoynahJan 26 03:08
FurnaceBoyit affects everythingJan 26 03:08
FurnaceBoyto impl the API , you want a fs that has the same attributes and functionalityJan 26 03:09
FurnaceBoyotherwise you're in impedance mismatch hellJan 26 03:09
FurnaceBoysee: POSIX talking to FAT,etcJan 26 03:09
FurnaceBoyor a million other examplesJan 26 03:09
DaemonFCthey should be farming out as much work as possibleJan 26 03:09
DaemonFCanything suitably genericJan 26 03:09
ender2070_im looking forward to btrfsJan 26 03:09
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: they're trying to use as much of WINE as possible now, instead of writing from scratchJan 26 03:09
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: As they should have been doing alreadyJan 26 03:10
FurnaceBoyender2070_: right, let's see if Oracle wants to run ZFS and btrfs ... would be wise. competition would be good.Jan 26 03:10
DaemonFCWine has dozens of programmers, ReactOS has a handfulJan 26 03:10
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: rightJan 26 03:10
DaemonFClet Wine do the workJan 26 03:10
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: I think the new approach makes sense, but i have no real interest in reactos. i use wine a little.Jan 26 03:10
FurnaceBoyender2070_: theoretically now Oracle owns ZFS, the patent issue relaxes a lot, for btrfs, don't you think?Jan 26 03:11
DaemonFCReactOS is not a bad thing, a GPL'd clone of Windows is not any more or less ethical than a GPL'd clone of UNIXJan 26 03:11
ender2070_FurnaceBoy - correct, as well as being able to actually use ZFS code, and vice versaJan 26 03:11
DaemonFCit would destroy Microsoft if it ever became realityJan 26 03:11
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: I don't believe in dual boot. I only do it because I'm forced to (thx monopoly)Jan 26 03:11
sebsebseboh your talking about ReactOSJan 26 03:12
DaemonFCWho is to say that ReactOS would have all the design flaws and technical limitations of Windows?Jan 26 03:12
sebsebsebyes that's a good thing that ReactOS will be using Wine a lot moreJan 26 03:12
DaemonFCI think that they can avoid repeating a lot of the mistakes that made Windows prone to so much malwareJan 26 03:13
sebsebsebindeedJan 26 03:13
DaemonFCand the bloat that keeps it from functioning on all but the newest hardwareJan 26 03:13
sebsebsebReactOS will be like a properly done WindowsJan 26 03:13
sebsebsebmaybe one day Micrrosoft will sponser/give them money even :DJan 26 03:13
DaemonFCdon't count on itJan 26 03:13
sebsebsebI mean if Microsoft loses  tons of market share with WindowsJan 26 03:13
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] @schestowitz is that some kind of power-up? ;-) just kidding. aargh i suppose i should see what the LAN is up toJan 26 03:13
DaemonFCmore like, sue to get an injunctionJan 26 03:13
DaemonFCMicrosoft is more of a law office than a software design firmJan 26 03:14
sebsebsebWine is importantJan 26 03:14
sebsebsebWine needs to improve a lotJan 26 03:14
sebsebsebthat's the key reallyJan 26 03:14
sebsebsebfor a lot of market share for Desktop LinuxJan 26 03:14
DaemonFCWine has improved a lotJan 26 03:14
sebsebsebit needs to be able to run pretty much every Windows app just like that, and wellJan 26 03:14
DaemonFCsometimes a program error in Wine is due to conflicts with the X server, or the compositing engineJan 26 03:15
sebsebsebat the moment stuff about how  Linux is a moving platformJan 26 03:15
DaemonFCthings that won't be there in ReactOSJan 26 03:15
sebsebseband how distros aren't all fully compatble with each otherJan 26 03:15
sebsebseband so a lot of commercial software hasn't been made for itJan 26 03:15
sebsebsebnot just lack of market shareJan 26 03:15
DaemonFCLinux makes a terrible platform to run Windows apps, because it's not WindowsJan 26 03:16
FurnaceBoy...Jan 26 03:16
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: the problem with that sentence is the "windows apps" part.Jan 26 03:16
sebsebsebThe Linux platform is apparnatly a terrible  platform to program commercial software for, becasue of the reasons I just gaevJan 26 03:16
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: one day ISVs will produce software for the o/s you WANT to run.Jan 26 03:16
FurnaceBoyit's inevitable, the unseen hand told me.Jan 26 03:17
DaemonFCIf you actually get something sufficiently complex to run well in Wine, so much the better, and there's a few examples of thatJan 26 03:17
DaemonFCit does run a mean copy of MS Office thoughJan 26 03:17
sebsebsebpeople don't care that much what OS they run an app on in generalJan 26 03:17
sebsebsebthey just want to run that app on an OS where the app worksJan 26 03:17
DaemonFCaccording to Wine, Microsoft improperly documents a lot of the Windows APIJan 26 03:18
DaemonFCno doubt to throw them offJan 26 03:18
sebsebsebif that means they have to use Wine to get that app to work, that's fine with  a lot of themJan 26 03:18
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: what on earth do you need Office specifically for?Jan 26 03:19
DaemonFCI don'tJan 26 03:19
DaemonFCI have a copy of pretty much all of themJan 26 03:19
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: of course they don't document it properly. that was a big part of the EU's complaint.Jan 26 03:19
DaemonFCbut I don't have it installedJan 26 03:19
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: *everything* they do is strategically or tactically aimed at lock-in.Jan 26 03:19
DaemonFCMicrosoft carpet bombs students with everything they makeJan 26 03:19
DaemonFCso I have a lot of their stuffJan 26 03:19
*FurnaceBoy just runs OpenOfficeJan 26 03:20
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: I use OOoJan 26 03:21
DaemonFCthe government won't take ODF thoughJan 26 03:21
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] anyone else get the feeling Bristol Palin is going to wake up early one morning, take a long Greyhound trip, and change her name?Jan 26 03:21
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: that's a crimeJan 26 03:21
DaemonFCeven though state law requires itJan 26 03:21
DaemonFCyeah, I threatened to sue one agency over non-compliance with the lawJan 26 03:22
FurnaceBoywhy should you sue? it's a criminal matter.Jan 26 03:22
DaemonFCand they took my ODF document after thatJan 26 03:22
DaemonFCI had to guide them through opening it in MS OfficeJan 26 03:22
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: When the state does that, you have to sue them to get the court to order them to comply with the lawJan 26 03:23
FurnaceBoyhmJan 26 03:23
sebsebsebMicrosoft have done certain things right with Windows, and the ReactOS people know thatJan 26 03:23
DaemonFCso that means taking them to small claims courtJan 26 03:23
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: In this case, it's pretty clear cut that they are in the wrongJan 26 03:24
DaemonFCthe law says that they have to take the file I sent, they refusedJan 26 03:24
sebsebsebalso really what quite a lot of people want,  is an alternative to Windows, that is quite similar to itJan 26 03:24
sebsebsebis Ubuntu that?  of course notJan 26 03:24
sebsebsebwill ReactOS be that, when it is developed enough? of courseJan 26 03:25
DaemonFCyeah, I'd use ReactOS if it was reasonably compatible with WindowsJan 26 03:25
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@fallow At the caffe: bible study group next to me is interpreting #Avatar // oh to be a fly on the wallJan 26 03:25
DaemonFCI don't think anyone pays MS just for the thrill of being hundreds of dollars lighterJan 26 03:25
sebsebsebyeah I tried some older ones in virtual machine and I think from CD before even anyway whateverJan 26 03:25
sebsebseb,but yeahJan 26 03:25
sebsebsebI coudn't run Windows appsJan 26 03:26
sebsebsebI didn't get far when I triedJan 26 03:26
FurnaceBoyawful!Jan 26 03:26
DaemonFCpaying Microsoft is as bad as having to pay for anythingJan 26 03:26
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: what is?Jan 26 03:26
DaemonFCit's not like you want your electric bill to arriveJan 26 03:26
FurnaceBoywhat windows app is irreplaceable to you?Jan 26 03:26
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: personally I don't need Windows apps, but  the "average computer consumer"  thinks they do, as well as lots of companiesJan 26 03:27
DaemonFCit's not really a matter so much as what's irreplaceable as it is what doesn't have a suitable replacementJan 26 03:27
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: well, start replacingJan 26 03:27
FurnaceBoythere's no point in trying to co-exist with an enemy who doesn't want you to exist.Jan 26 03:27
sebsebsebthere are replacements for a lot of stuffJan 26 03:27
sebsebseb,but thenJan 26 03:27
DaemonFCvery few applications are just so wonderful I'd never leave them :)Jan 26 03:27
sebsebsebthey aren't similar enough to the Windows versions of programs of that typeJan 26 03:27
sebsebsebor  they lack some feature etcJan 26 03:28
FurnaceBoyif you're thinking of Photoshop,Jan 26 03:28
sebsebsebwell some replacements are better then the propritary,  Apache vs ISS for exampleJan 26 03:28
FurnaceBoythere is no reason why Adobe couldn't release that for Linux.Jan 26 03:28
sebsebsebor the Linux kernel vs the Windows kernel?Jan 26 03:28
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: nearly allJan 26 03:28
FurnaceBoythe point here is not that we need to run a windows-alike to get the software we want.Jan 26 03:28
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: If they didn't have a Mac version, I might argue that it could be heavily dependant upon WindowsJan 26 03:28
FurnaceBoyif the market was healthy (i.e. not monopolised), the software we want would already be available for the o/s we want to run.Jan 26 03:28
DaemonFCbut good software companies don't ever let it get to that point anywayJan 26 03:29
sebsebseband then some programs it depends on the user, if they are better or worse than the propritary,  for example Open Office vs  Microsoft OfficeJan 26 03:29
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: all the major Adobe products began on the Mac.Jan 26 03:29
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: Illustrator didn't hit Windows till version 4.0Jan 26 03:29
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: Photoshop till v3.0, I think.Jan 26 03:29
sebsebsebsome propritary software is pretty good really, or well lots of users think it is anyway, and yep no Linux versions, however that will be a good thing if Wine could run those programs properlyJan 26 03:29
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: even InDesign was Mac first.Jan 26 03:29
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: No.Jan 26 03:29
DaemonFCyeah, Adobe used to be very Mac-biasedJan 26 03:29
DaemonFCthey really aren't anymoreJan 26 03:29
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: it would be a good thing if ISVs recognised there are platforms other than Windows.Jan 26 03:29
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: that's the endpointJan 26 03:30
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: yes we need propritary software on Desktop Linux as well, for proper market shareJan 26 03:30
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: for Adobe's first 10 years, more or less, they had nothing on WIndowsJan 26 03:30
sebsebsebsome think freedom is way more importantJan 26 03:30
sebsebsebothers thinkJan 26 03:30
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: Windows was not in that marketJan 26 03:30
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: yesJan 26 03:30
sebsebsebit's better to have Desktop Linux being  more main streameJan 26 03:30
sebsebsebeven if that meant most users would be running Wine  for quite a lot of appsJan 26 03:30
FurnaceBoyyes.Jan 26 03:30
FurnaceBoysure, as a transition step, wine is valuableJan 26 03:31
DaemonFCfor the first 10 years, Windows probably wasn't technically capable of running those programs anywayJan 26 03:31
sebsebsebsoftware freedom, yes we all know here, that it's a good thing, I expectJan 26 03:31
DaemonFCuntil Windows 95 at leastJan 26 03:31
FurnaceBoybut ultimately ppl will want native ... same as they did in every analogous transition.Jan 26 03:31
sebsebseband most of the geeks on freenode for that matterJan 26 03:31
sebsebseb,but the average computer has never been educated about thatJan 26 03:31
sebsebsebso they don't know about itJan 26 03:31
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @qu1j0t3 no, it's when skype chooses your PC to be a major hubJan 26 03:31
sebsebseband if  you start trying to explain to a lot of them, most won't really get it,  they just want apps that they think are good, running on their computerJan 26 03:32
sebsebseband  they don't tend to care what OS they are running either, just as long as those apps will work,  oh and as long as the hardware they want to use will workJan 26 03:32
FurnaceBoyYES.Jan 26 03:32
FurnaceBoyso there's no rationale for any particular proprietary platform.Jan 26 03:32
sebsebsebnative popular apps yes that' a good thing, but  loads of apps will never be written for  Desktop Linux, so  it's good if they will run properly in WineJan 26 03:33
FurnaceBoywindows was designed to do one thing. enrich Gates beyond dreams of avarice. mission accomplished, now we can move on and get work done.Jan 26 03:33
sebsebsebGates that reminds me, he is on Twitter nowJan 26 03:33
sebsebseband he has quite a following all readyJan 26 03:33
FurnaceBoyput that whole crime spree behind us.Jan 26 03:33
sebsebseband there's  a book about computer history, with the photo of bill gates in prision  as the front cover, or something like thatJan 26 03:34
sebsebsebBill Gates  got in trouble with the police when he was youngJan 26 03:34
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] @schestowitz I know, I was only kidding.Jan 26 03:34
FurnaceBoyhe just learned how not to get caughtJan 26 03:34
FurnaceBoyhis smirk in that mugshot really tells the whole storyJan 26 03:35
FurnaceBoyhe knew one day he'd be bigger than the lawJan 26 03:35
sebsebsebwell hopefuly ReactOS is nice and readyJan 26 03:36
sebsebsebfor main streame computer usersJan 26 03:36
sebsebsebbyJan 26 03:36
sebsebsebApril 2014Jan 26 03:36
sebsebsebideally  around 2012Jan 26 03:36
sebsebsebsince that's when Microsoft want business's to leave XP by the latestJan 26 03:36
sebsebsebno I don't think businesse's will just go and do ReactOSJan 26 03:36
sebsebseb,but Ubuntu isn't  properly for everyone who  ends up trying it,  in fact the Live CD won't even work properly on certain computers.   ReactOS could be more for the "main streame Windows user"Jan 26 03:37
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sebsebsebReactOS developers working with Wine more, well both will improve that way :)Jan 26 03:38
ender2070_if they can work togetherJan 26 03:48
FurnaceBoykumbaya my lord, kum-bayaJan 26 03:49
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shreddarI think Wine and ReactOS have been working together for years now.Jan 26 03:51
FurnaceBoyyes but there were some recent shifts in ReactOS strategyJan 26 03:51
shreddarI'd like to read about (or watch) it. Link?Jan 26 03:52
sebsebsebshreddar: ok i'll get you oneJan 26 03:55
sebsebsebwhat you guys think of this by the way?Jan 26 03:55
sebsebseb 26 03:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Linux Today - Ubuntu, you blew your chance to go mainstream .::. Size~: 79.68 KBJan 26 03:55
sebsebseblinking there since comments,  that I haven't read yetJan 26 03:55
sebsebsebshreddar: linking here since yep comments 26 03:56
sebsebsebno bot that timeJan 26 03:56
sebsebseb 26 03:56
sebsebsebhrm oh wellJan 26 03:56
schestowitzThis is an interesting documentary I've just finished watching. 26 03:57
schestowitzsebsebseb: sensationalism]Jan 26 03:57
sebsebsebschestowitz: what's that?Jan 26 03:57
schestowitzIt's an anti-Linux magazineJan 26 03:57
schestowitzPaid by Microsoft to paint the whole page with Vista hypeJan 26 03:57
schestowitzHe didn't choose the headlineJan 26 03:58
sebsebsebschestowitz: what Tuxrader ?Jan 26 03:58
schestowitzEditors doJan 26 03:58
schestowitzNoJan 26 03:58
schestowitzThe one aboveJan 26 03:58
schestowitzNever mindJan 26 03:58
sebsebseboh the ReactOS link?Jan 26 03:58
schestowitzI've just found this video. Was it REALLY on BBC2?!?!?!Jan 26 03:58
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 303 See Other .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 26 03:58
sebsebsebschestowitz: both links were on Linux today that I just gaveJan 26 03:58
sebsebsebschestowitz: they do have adverts yes, but  I don't think they are anti Linux or paid off  by MicrosoftJan 26 03:59
schestowitzI've just caught up Jan 26 03:59
schestowitzBeen working on daily linksJan 26 03:59
sebsebsebthey do have some Windows adverts, but a lot of these Linux sites doJan 26 03:59
schestowitzFurnaceBoy has so many interesting things to say...Jan 26 03:59
schestowitzsebsebseb: noJan 26 03:59
schestowitzWhat they used toJan 26 03:59
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: you flattererJan 26 03:59
schestowitzNever mindJan 26 03:59
schestowitzI can explain in more details, but it's 4am here, I'm tiredJan 26 03:59
schestowitzI also need to do 6 cycles of laundry tomorrowJan 26 04:00
sebsebsebschestowitz: plus they got  Carla Shrodder (or however her name is spelt)   the woman who did the Linux cook book or whatever it wasJan 26 04:00
sebsebsebschestowitz: yeah nearly 4am for both of usJan 26 04:00
sebsebsebthe difference though is I am not tired since when I woke up etcJan 26 04:00
sebsebsebschestowitz: anyway tell me next time about the sites I guessJan 26 04:02
sebsebsebCarla as the Linux Today editor above yeahJan 26 04:02
DaemonFC5 hours ahead of meJan 26 04:04
DaemonFCsounds about rightJan 26 04:05
sebsebsebschestowitz: as for that Ubuntu article I linked to, well to Linux Today and then from there people can go to the articleJan 26 04:05
sebsebsebschestowitz: I thought what a load of nonsenseJan 26 04:05
DaemonFCwell, sebsebseb, contextual advertisementsJan 26 04:05
sebsebsebmaybe since I didn't understand it properly,   anyway Ubuntu hasn't really done anythning yet to compete properly against Windows,  it seems Ubuntu 10.04 will be the start of that thoughJan 26 04:05
DaemonFCyou mention Windows on the page and they pick up on thatJan 26 04:05
DaemonFCsuddenly you're serving Windows Server ads to all your readersJan 26 04:06
sebsebsebLinux Today has the Windows Server and such adds yesJan 26 04:06
sebsebsebbanners for thatJan 26 04:06
sebsebsebI am pretty sure I have seen Microsoft adverts on other websites where there was something Linux though,  and not from the same company as Linux TodayJan 26 04:07
FurnaceBoySLashdot.Jan 26 04:07
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: well there is Slashdot sureJan 26 04:07
sebsebseb,but that's a bit to geek for my likeing or whateverJan 26 04:07
FurnaceBoythey run MS adsJan 26 04:07
sebsebseboh and so many comments for like everything, and it's hard to go through most of itJan 26 04:07
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: increase your threshold. most are junkJan 26 04:08
sebsebsebwell yes there is thatJan 26 04:08
sebsebsebyou can   filter comments that aren't that good outJan 26 04:08
FurnaceBoyimagine how bad it was *before* moderation :)Jan 26 04:08
sebsebseb,but even so,  I would prefer to read some of the ones that are junk reallyJan 26 04:08
sebsebsebas wellJan 26 04:08
FurnaceBoywell, cost/benefit :DJan 26 04:08
FurnaceBoyi only read cmnts there when I'm really interested in a topicJan 26 04:08
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: oh the Microsoft adverts are so bad they say, but then you say slashdot do it as wellJan 26 04:09
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: actually it doesn't bother meJan 26 04:09
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: MS advertising to that audience doesn't achieve much :)Jan 26 04:09
sebsebsebindeedJan 26 04:09
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: technical ppl generally have picked a side.Jan 26 04:10
sebsebsebside as in OS or?Jan 26 04:10
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: so either way, the ads don't work muchJan 26 04:10
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: i bet they get lots of complaints though :)Jan 26 04:10
sebsebsebwould be nice to have Linux adverts instead on that site really though, but I guess they just use some ad severtJan 26 04:10
sebsebsebserverJan 26 04:10
sebsebsebthat does Microsoft addsJan 26 04:10
FurnaceBoywell, microsoft's media buy is deliberateJan 26 04:11
FurnaceBoythey want to be advertising in front of linux pplJan 26 04:11
sebsebsebI can understand Windows as a desktop OSJan 26 04:11
sebsebsebwhy a lot of people want to run itJan 26 04:11
FurnaceBoybeing a Mac user, I can't.Jan 26 04:12
sebsebseb,but as a web server uhmm noJan 26 04:12
FurnaceBoyof course not.Jan 26 04:12
sebsebsebas any type of server for that matter, uhmm noJan 26 04:12
FurnaceBoyright. it's just irrelevantJan 26 04:12
sebsebsebFools run Windows as a server os, for a server!Jan 26 04:12
FurnaceBoyi've met such fools.Jan 26 04:12
FurnaceBoythey work 9 to 5, watch NASCAR, and that's it.Jan 26 04:12
sebsebsebThe server versions of Windows are really better as a Desktop OS as well.Jan 26 04:12
FurnaceBoythey know nothing about technology. they just do what they think the boss wants.Jan 26 04:12
FurnaceBoythe brightest might have MCSE.Jan 26 04:13
FurnaceBoyno motive to explore anything elseJan 26 04:13
sebsebsebwell yeahJan 26 04:13
FurnaceBoyit's a ghetto, a closed world.Jan 26 04:13
sebsebsebvender lock inJan 26 04:13
FurnaceBoy+1Jan 26 04:13
sebsebseband an idea that,  Microsoft is every where and soJan 26 04:13
sebsebsebworking with WindowsJan 26 04:13
FurnaceBoyand that's the most lucrative way.Jan 26 04:13
FurnaceBoythat's why MS is totalitarianJan 26 04:14
FurnaceBoyby matureJan 26 04:14
FurnaceBoynature*Jan 26 04:14
shreddarWell, Arwinss sounds like a pretty nice design step for them.Jan 26 04:14
FurnaceBoyif they could have 100%, they would, and it would be a horrible worldJan 26 04:14
FurnaceBoyat 90% it's already pretty awfulJan 26 04:14
FurnaceBoybut it's like compressing a gas. Jan 26 04:14
FurnaceBoyno matter how hard you squeeze, you can't squeeze opposition to nothing.Jan 26 04:15
shreddarI know there will be those that are thankful of the ReactOS project in the future.Jan 26 04:15
FurnaceBoyyes, those whose data is locked behind Microsoft toll gateJan 26 04:15
sebsebseboh for anyone that might read logs or whatever,   when I put  the The server versions of Windows are really better as a Desktop OS as well.     I meant  better than a Desktop version of Windows.Jan 26 04:16
FurnaceBoyit may be their only chance to avoid some exorbitant penalty to have their own data againJan 26 04:16
shreddarMore Like those that are use FreeDos or free Amiga clones.Jan 26 04:16
shreddarThere are still people who never left Win98 and even those still using 95.Jan 26 04:17
sebsebsebyeah some people using  unsupported versions of Windows online stillJan 26 04:17
shreddarIn the future wen Windows has stop being defacto there will still be those wanting to run some version for some program they have.Jan 26 04:18
shreddarAnd they'll have free software to think for it.Jan 26 04:19
sebsebsebshreddar: well  Windows virtual machines,  Wine, and  ReactOS when it's ready enoughJan 26 04:19
sebsebsebyeah free software goes back to the 70's?Jan 26 04:20
sebsebsebso before Microsoft came alongJan 26 04:20
shreddarYeah well it's also a comfort to them to not just a API thing. (Like DOS users.)Jan 26 04:20
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: much olderJan 26 04:20
DaemonFCAvast is now piggybacking Google ChromeJan 26 04:20
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: google "IBM SHARE history"Jan 26 04:21
sebsebsebMicrosoft came along and messed computing, up or did itJan 26 04:21
sebsebsebhrmJan 26 04:21
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: yesJan 26 04:21
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: preciselyJan 26 04:21
sebsebsebI mean if it wasn't Microsoft gaining most of the marketJan 26 04:21
sebsebsebthen Apple might ofJan 26 04:21
sebsebseband  become like MicrosoftJan 26 04:21
sebsebsebor IBM would have become like MicrosoftJan 26 04:21
sebsebseba lot of people are loyal to Windows or something, because that's the only OS they know,   what they don't seem to reolize is if it wasn't Windows, it would have been something else, they would have been using isnteadJan 26 04:22
FurnaceBoyclear and present danger.Jan 26 04:22
FurnaceBoyit's not really an argument for tolerating microsoft.Jan 26 04:22
sebsebsebMicrosoft were ok untill like 2001/2003 ?  now it's time to move onJan 26 04:23
FurnaceBoythey were never ok, actuallyJan 26 04:23
sebsebsebwell they made some sort of interesting products, that then diedJan 26 04:24
FurnaceBoyGates is a megalomaniac, and the company is just a manifestation of his sociopathic drivesJan 26 04:24
sebsebsebEncarta for exampleJan 26 04:24
FurnaceBoythey bought it.Jan 26 04:25
sebsebseboh?Jan 26 04:25
sebsebsebhotmail is used by many and not that good, but that was bought from someone else as wellJan 26 04:25
FurnaceBoyany decent technology they have, was bought, and then wrecked. Sybase -> SQL ServerJan 26 04:25
sebsebsebDOS was bought from someone else if I remember correctlyJan 26 04:25
FurnaceBoyHotmail was founded by Sabeer Bhatia, yes.Jan 26 04:25
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: yes, DOS was bought. It's also crappier than a 1975 shell.Jan 26 04:25
sebsebsebwell I don't know who that isJan 26 04:25
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: he's the guy who invented Hotmail. he sold for ~ $400 mil before the first bubbleJan 26 04:26
sebsebsebthe first bubble?Jan 26 04:26
FurnaceBoyhm, oh wait, maybe i have an extra zero :DJan 26 04:26
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: yes, don't you remember the first big internet bubble?Jan 26 04:26
sebsebsebI thought that's what you meantJan 26 04:26
sebsebsebI was going to put somethingJan 26 04:26
sebsebseband no I don't exactly remember it,  since I was a childJan 26 04:27
FurnaceBoyyes, reportedly $400 mil. 26 04:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Sabeer Bhatia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 30.18 KBJan 26 04:27
shreddarWindows wasn't really bought though. It was copied. Jan 26 04:27
FurnaceBoywell, his story is covered in Po Bronson's book "Nudist on the Night Shift".Jan 26 04:27
FurnaceBoyat the time, Hotmail ran on FreeBSD.Jan 26 04:27
FurnaceBoythey tried to move to NT and failed.Jan 26 04:27
sebsebsebfree software also goes back before Apple?Jan 26 04:28
sebsebsebavarage computer users, don't really know the history of computing,  and they don't really care, they just want to use a computer for their tasks and that's thatJan 26 04:28
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: Free software goes back to the 1950s.Jan 26 04:29
sebsebseband things are going more mobile now days,  so  the desktop might not be that relivant in say 10 years timeJan 26 04:29
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: 20+ years before AppleJan 26 04:29
sebsebseband mobile phone companies and such are turning to Linux moreJan 26 04:29
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: right, these trends hurt MSJan 26 04:29
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: indeed they doJan 26 04:29
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: since they are not credible as a server, and weak in mobileJan 26 04:30
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sebsebseband only really around today, since loads of people still rely on Windows and Microsoft Office, and are still buying itJan 26 04:30
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: only ignorance can explain itJan 26 04:31
sebsebsebthe two big cash cowsJan 26 04:31
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: what I just put,  well yesJan 26 04:31
sebsebsebonly ignorance can explain why  loads of people still rely on Windows and Microsoft Office todayJan 26 04:31
sebsebsebwell and vender lock in, which  is the result of the ignoranceJan 26 04:31
FurnaceBoyyes, vicious circleJan 26 04:32
FurnaceBoybut it shall be broken :)Jan 26 04:32
sebsebsebthat and how companies just like loads of home users, want to use what they knowJan 26 04:32
sebsebsebit's a bit risky for a company to suddenly  deply  Linux distro and Open Office for example, well unless they have some proper techsJan 26 04:32
sebsebseband  some people that can provide proper training for staffJan 26 04:32
shreddarOf of that is the problem of Intellectual Monopolys.Jan 26 04:32
sebsebsebor other types of users for example, say in a educational establisment, so for studentsJan 26 04:33
sebsebseb,but with education, there's this idea, that they should use what the companies are usingJan 26 04:33
FurnaceBoy 26 04:33
phIRCe-BNcTitle: AppleInsider | Notes of interest from Apple's Q1 2010 conference call .::. Size~: 57.97 KBJan 26 04:33
sebsebseband then companies will get students who only really know Microsoft, and so the circle goes round and roundJan 26 04:33
FurnaceBoy"Mac sales in Italy, France, Switzerland and Spain all grew more than 40 percent. Australia up over 70 percent, China up almost 100 percent."Jan 26 04:33
sebsebsebuntill  Ubuntu starts to gain a lot of proper market share for example, if that's  ever going to happen,  or ReactOS becomes ready for  the mainstreame, and starts to really get known about or somethingJan 26 04:33
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: or business and home users get sick of wasting moneyJan 26 04:34
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: there's not so much cash to throw away any moreJan 26 04:34
sebsebsebpeople like to follow what companies do, but  I think if enough consumers start using Desktop Linux at home,   some companies will as wellJan 26 04:34
FurnaceBoysebsebseb:  a lot of companies already quietly run LinuxJan 26 04:34
sebsebsebwell they do for servers sureJan 26 04:34
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: skunkworks .,, hidden statisticsJan 26 04:34
sebsebseb,but not  the desktopJan 26 04:34
FurnaceBoyyes that too, but maybe lessJan 26 04:34
schestowitz[04:00] <sebsebseb> schestowitz: plus they got  Carla Shrodder (or however her name is spelt)   the woman who did the Linux cook book or whatever it wasJan 26 04:35
FurnaceBoythe benefits are clear, only inertia needs to be beatenJan 26 04:35
schestowitzNetwork cookbookJan 26 04:35
sebsebsebtime are changing slowly anyway, but right now,  I don't really want to work in IT, since I know I would have to work with Windows loads reallyJan 26 04:35
schestowitz[04:24] <FurnaceBoy> Gates is a megalomaniac, and the company is just a manifestation of his sociopathic drivesJan 26 04:36
schestowitzWatch that film I posted about earlierJan 26 04:36
schestowitzRussian mafiaJan 26 04:36
schestowitzThey can't help it... it's all just about moneyJan 26 04:36
sebsebsebI used to want to be a professiaonl website coder, but then I found out about IE 6's horrible web standards support etcJan 26 04:36
schestowitzThey don't care what crimeJan 26 04:36
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: +1Jan 26 04:36
schestowitzSee the part about "Tarzan"Jan 26 04:36
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: it never stopsJan 26 04:36
schestowitzThese criminals walk away freeJan 26 04:36
schestowitzDeportedJan 26 04:36
schestowitzAmazingJan 26 04:36
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Brer Gates knows a lot about briar patches.Jan 26 04:36
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: what's the name of the film?Jan 26 04:36
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: I might rent the dvdJan 26 04:36
schestowitzReminded me of Goldman Sachs and chumsJan 26 04:37
schestowitzThey are a different type of mafiaJan 26 04:37
schestowitzThey wear other consumesJan 26 04:37
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: computing is a fun hobby to have thoughJan 26 04:37
schestowitzLike banksterJan 26 04:37
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: babble on about it to geeks on Freenode every now and againJan 26 04:37
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: wait...Jan 26 04:37
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: uhmmm Ubuntu support here and there,  reading about Linux and such here and thereJan 26 04:37
schestowitz 26 04:38
schestowitzPart 1 of 5/6Jan 26 04:38
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: I've always been a coderJan 26 04:38
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: well I can do HTML, XHTML, and CSS, when there's something to make,  I have tired to learn PHP and Python in the past, but gave upJan 26 04:38
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: I am more of a technical support person reallyJan 26 04:38
sebsebsebsoftware sideJan 26 04:38
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: well, takes all kinds :)Jan 26 04:38
sebsebsebwhat was that?Jan 26 04:39
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: technology is an area with a million possible specialtiesJan 26 04:39
sebsebsebsure, but the courses around here aren't good for it reallyJan 26 04:39
sebsebsebMicrosoft this that and the other, well the low level onesJan 26 04:39
*FurnaceBoy has considered teaching programmingJan 26 04:39
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: where are you locatedJan 26 04:39
sebsebsebEnglandJan 26 04:39
FurnaceBoyhm, not quite on my list of countries to emigrate to.Jan 26 04:40
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: what's that meant to mean?Jan 26 04:40
FurnaceBoyhow's the cctv? (not to strike a cliche, but of real interest in this channel)Jan 26 04:40
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: take it literallyJan 26 04:40
schestowitzJan 26 04:40
schestowitz[04:38] <FurnaceBoy> sebsebseb: I've always been a coderJan 26 04:40
schestowitzSomethign that Bill&Steve can't tellJan 26 04:40
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: CCTV yeahJan 26 04:40
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: I have a list of countries I wouldn't mind emigrating too. England almost makes the cut.Jan 26 04:40
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: cctv is really the deal breakerJan 26 04:40
FurnaceBoyto*Jan 26 04:40
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: well it's their for security really, some think it's, because the NWO want to control us or whateverJan 26 04:40
schestowitzsebsebseb: see the video I showed you that claims to be from BBC2..... it touches on CCTV tooJan 26 04:41
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: the rationalisations don't interest me. just the fact of it is unacceptable.Jan 26 04:41
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: ditto Microsoft :DJan 26 04:41
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: uh your saying you want to move to England, because we have CCTV?Jan 26 04:41
FurnaceBoythat's what so many ppl around here *cough* don't get. that principles matter. heheJan 26 04:41
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: it's a deal breakerJan 26 04:41
sebsebseboh deal brakerJan 26 04:42
sebsebsebas in Jan 26 04:42
sebsebsebyeahJan 26 04:42
sebsebsebyou won't, because of itJan 26 04:42
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: otherwise it'd be pretty close.Jan 26 04:42
sebsebsebwell CCTV is betterJan 26 04:42
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: nothing much against england, myself. like the place.Jan 26 04:42
sebsebsebthan having loads of guns all over the placeJan 26 04:42
sebsebseblike USAJan 26 04:42
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: yes probably, but NEITHER is an acceptable situation.Jan 26 04:42
FurnaceBoy(to me)Jan 26 04:42
schestowitzDaemonFC rubs them like a lampJan 26 04:42
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: also they need to keep an eye on schestowitz  he might get up to something naughtey :DJan 26 04:43
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: masturbation analogies are pretty accurate in this respectJan 26 04:43
schestowitzNot necessarilyJan 26 04:43
shreddarI'd rather have mandatory GPS implants than CCTV. I look terrible on grainy black and white tv's.Jan 26 04:43
schestowitzLamp as in the storyJan 26 04:43
schestowitzThe Persian storiesJan 26 04:43
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: oh, his fantasies are masturbatory. he loves to take his adrenalin tripsJan 26 04:43
schestowitzMagic lampJan 26 04:43
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: shooting baddiesJan 26 04:43
sebsebsebschestowitz: I think CCTV in a lot of public places, is better than  GPS on people so they know where we  are all the timeJan 26 04:44
schestowitzThis was warped by all sort of cartoon pornographers, I guessJan 26 04:44
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: he's Dirty Harry. they're the scum.Jan 26 04:44
sebsebsebpeople want privacy as wellJan 26 04:44
schestowitzRubbing a lamp is just... rubbing a lampJan 26 04:44
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: why do you keep producing these false dichotomies?Jan 26 04:44
sebsebseband we have it,  when not being filmed by CCTVJan 26 04:44
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: it's not a choice of Evil A or Evil B.Jan 26 04:44
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: it's that you should not accept EITHER.Jan 26 04:44
schestowitz[04:43] <sebsebseb> FurnaceBoy: also they need to keep an eye on schestowitz  he might get up to something naughtey :DJan 26 04:45
shreddarBut if you had to chose...Jan 26 04:45
FurnaceBoyshreddar: we don't.Jan 26 04:45
schestowitzIf someone mugs me, the camera will save meJan 26 04:45
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: HAHAHAHAHJan 26 04:45
shreddarBut if you had to chose...Jan 26 04:45
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: if DaemonFC doesn't SAVE you first.Jan 26 04:45
shreddarchooseJan 26 04:45
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: "oops, I missed, sorry Roy."Jan 26 04:45
sebsebseba public place is a public place,  I don't choice if there are going to be cameras there or not,  I can just expect it  in  shops for exampleJan 26 04:45
FurnaceBoyshreddar: pointlessJan 26 04:45
sebsebsebas for the streets, there will probably be a warning signJan 26 04:45
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: I would not accept it.Jan 26 04:45
schestowitzThose cameras only take AWAY actual armed cops from some scenes of potential crimesJan 26 04:45
sebsebsebwhere they have camerasJan 26 04:45
sebsebsebthere are also cameras in the USA in shopsJan 26 04:45
sebsebsebstores as you would sayJan 26 04:46
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: maybe there are. I could care less.Jan 26 04:46
schestowitzsebsebseb: to secure the snacksJan 26 04:46
schestowitzNot to secure peopleJan 26 04:46
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: DONUT WATCHJan 26 04:46
*FurnaceBoy has to go make dinnerJan 26 04:46
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schestowitz"Hey you!! Stop! Bring back the bread!Jan 26 04:46
sebsebsebschestowitz: surely mainly to secure the products, stop stealing, but if  there was a serious crime in the shop, it would have that as wellJan 26 04:46
sebsebsebschestowitz: uh why I did I type in surely, I didn't want to do thatJan 26 04:46
schestowitzI'm in  favour of plastic camsJan 26 04:47
schestowitzObviously they are there to deterJan 26 04:47
schestowitzLet's just make plastic fake ones, it's cheaperJan 26 04:47
schestowitzANd hide real ones in just 5% of casesJan 26 04:47
sebsebsebschestowitz: camera's are there since the police can't be  nearly everywhere,  and can't really pay to have security guards nearly everywhere as wellJan 26 04:47
schestowitz"You'd never know...... this camera COULD be a real one !!!"Jan 26 04:47
schestowitzIt's like with nukesJan 26 04:48
schestowitzAnd unclear 'defence' systemJan 26 04:48
schestowitzTotal bunkJan 26 04:48
sebsebsebanyway FurnaceBoy leftJan 26 04:48
schestowitzOne could shoot 10,000 rockets, 9,990 of which are hollow... like fireworksJan 26 04:48
schestowitzGood luck shooting down the 10 that are nuclearJan 26 04:48
sebsebsebI guess  people tend to accept what they are used to,  in ther country, but not alwaysJan 26 04:49
DaemonFCSure I'd save schestowitz, but only if he agreed to tell the court that the mugger was "coming right for us!!!! ahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!"Jan 26 04:49
sebsebseband if they think whatever it is, is there to protect them, then they tend to accept it yesJan 26 04:49
DaemonFC;)Jan 26 04:49
shreddar 26 04:50
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DaemonFC"If you just scrub that toilet a little bit harder, you'll be an entrepreneur in the opportunity-based society and one day smoke cigars on the country club golf course with Rush Limbaugh," I can hear the hired PR guns say.Jan 26 05:14
DaemonFC-from Wayne Besan's weekly newsletter :)Jan 26 05:14
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #LinuxTag Organised for 2010 26 05:16
DaemonFC"Appealing to a higher power gives the powerless a  false sense of security. They feel like God is looking out for them and opportunity is just around the corner - even if those potential jobs are permanently shipped overseas and the earnings placed in offshore tax shelters."Jan 26 05:17
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #School in New Zealand Dumps Windows, Moves to #GNU #Linux 26 05:18
phIRCe-BNcTitle: NZ school ditches Microsoft and goes totally open source - education, Linux,, Microsoft - CIO .::. Size~: 118.61 KBJan 26 05:18
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Ender2070heyJan 26 05:19
Ender2070anyone in the us know when public domain starts for old stuff?Jan 26 05:19
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] London Stock Exchange Praises #GNU #Linux in a New Press Release #lseJan 26 05:19
Ender2070in canada its anything before 1937Jan 26 05:19
DaemonFC 26 05:20
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Public domain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 127.71 KBJan 26 05:20
DaemonFC120 years after publication apparentlyJan 26 05:20
Ender2070unless published before 1923Jan 26 05:21
DaemonFC"A work that is created (i.e. fixed in tangible form for the first time)  after January 1, 1978, is automatically protected from the moment of its  creation and is given a term lasting for the author’s life, plus an  additional 70 years after the author’s death"Jan 26 05:21
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Look at #GRUB 2 and #QEMU 0.13 for #Linux 26 05:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: [Phoronix] New GRUB2 Build Brings Official Release Closer .::. Size~: 15.36 KBJan 26 05:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: [Phoronix] QEMU 0.13 To Focus On New Features .::. Size~: 15.53 KBJan 26 05:21
Ender2070The claim that "pre-1923 works are in the public domain" is correct only for published works; unpublished works are under federal copyright for at least the life of the author plus 70 years.Jan 26 05:22
Ender2070I would have to host Brave New World on a canadian serverJan 26 05:22
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Performance Comparison of #Linux , #BSD , and #OpenSolaris (Linux Wins) 26 05:23
phIRCe-BNcTitle: [Phoronix] Fedora, Debian, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, OpenSolaris Benchmarks .::. Size~: 19.82 KBJan 26 05:23
DaemonFCyeah, the industry has bought las that give them exclusive control on everything effectively foreverJan 26 05:23
DaemonFCmost music made in my lifetime won't be public domain until decades after I die of old ageJan 26 05:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux #Graphics Stack Has Important New Addition 26 05:24
phIRCe-BNcTitle: [Phoronix] ATI R600/R700 Gallium3D Winsys Published .::. Size~: 16.61 KBJan 26 05:24
Ender2070Canada has 50 years after authors death tooJan 26 05:25
Ender2070but anything published before 1937 is public domain, we got the law a little later than you guysJan 26 05:26
Ender2070Aldous Huxley (Brave New World - 1932)Jan 26 05:26
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Many More #Games on Their Way to #GNU #Linux Thanks to Engine Port 26 05:26
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Linux Gaming News  » Blog Archive   » Fishing Cactus Are porting Their Mojito Engine To GNU/Linux ! .::. Size~: 31.07 KBJan 26 05:26
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Featureful #GNU #Linux is Coming to #PlayStation 3 26 05:28
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Why not just scrap prorogation? Good bloody question. #canadaJan 26 05:28
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Once impenetrable PS3 cracked wide open • The Register .::. Size~: 23.12 KBJan 26 05:28
phIRCe-BNcTitle: BBC News - PlayStation 3 'hacked' by iPhone cracker  .::. Size~: 57.15 KBJan 26 05:28
phIRCe-BNcTitle: On the PlayStation 3: Hello hypervisor, I'm geohot .::. Size~: 298.95 KBJan 26 05:28
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Prorogation should be deleted | Greg Weston | Columnists | News | Toronto Sun .::. Size~: 70.48 KBJan 26 05:28
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Next Version of #KDE Another Step Closer 26 05:30
phIRCe-BNcTitle: KDE - Software Compilation 4.4 RC2 Release Announcement .::. Size~: 17.9 KBJan 26 05:30
phIRCe-BNcTitle: KDE vs. GNOME: Configuration and Admin Tools &mdash; .::. Size~: 67.52 KBJan 26 05:30
sebsebsebseems to be a lot of people out there who think Ubuntu 9.10 was meant to   properly compete against Windows 7, that was never the caseJan 26 05:31
sebsebsebit was never meant to properly compete against Windows 7Jan 26 05:31
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Review of #Hymera #GN #Linux 26 05:31
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mandriva 's Great Feature Revealed 26 05:31
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Put the fun back into computing. Use Linux, BSD. .::. Size~: 119.22 KBJan 26 05:31
phIRCe-BNcTitle: auto_inst: the best kept Mandrivas secret ? « Bruno Cornecs Blog .::. Size~: 21.08 KBJan 26 05:31
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu Software Management Gets More Features 26 05:41
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Ubuntu Software Centre Gets Star Ratings & Reviews | OMG! Ubuntu! .::. Size~: 108.43 KBJan 26 05:41
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat Launches New Site Based on #FreeSoftware ( #Drupal ) 26 05:43
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phIRCe-BNcTitle: launches on Drupal | Dries Buytaert .::. Size~: 13.18 KBJan 26 05:43
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Look #Lubuntu #GNU #Linux 26 05:44
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Lubuntu Lucid Lynx Alpha 2 Has Been Released! ~ Web Upd8 .::. Size~: 141.22 KBJan 26 05:44
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Lubuntu Alpha 2 Released; Gets New Bootsplash, Artwork, File Manager | OMG! Ubuntu! .::. Size~: 105.48 KBJan 26 05:44
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Canonical / #Ubuntu Ports Software to #Windows 26 05:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle: UbuntuOne Being Ported To Windows | OMG! Ubuntu! .::. Size~: 106.45 KBJan 26 05:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Windows set for Ubuntu cloud storage? | IT PRO .::. Size~: 38.11 KBJan 26 05:46
jonoschestowitz your tweets are awesome :)Jan 26 05:47
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Is Ebert a good film critic, or is he just a brand - like so many actors and directors? #rhetoricalquestionJan 26 05:47
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux (Android) Phones Are Going to Rule the #Mobile Market 26 05:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Android Tops iPhone In Mobile Trends Report | WebProNews .::. Size~: 32.85 KBJan 26 05:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Android will soon trail only Symbian, says IDC - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 66.22 KBJan 26 05:55
DaemonFCjono: How long before Monobuntu 10.04 LTS is done? :)Jan 26 05:59
jonoDaemonFC, nearly there :)Jan 26 06:00
jonoit also comes with Adobe Air installed by default too :)Jan 26 06:00
jonoits going to be great :)Jan 26 06:00
jonoDaemonFC, I didnt realize you had heard of Monobuntu?Jan 26 06:01
DaemonFCoh god, is there such a thing?Jan 26 06:02
jonoDaemonFC, you haven't heard of it?Jan 26 06:02
DaemonFCI was referring to the Mono creepJan 26 06:02
jonoits pretty sweetJan 26 06:02
jonoits an official derivative that focuses on building a rocking Mono and Adobe AIR based distroJan 26 06:02
DaemonFC"Our users are too stupid to figure out Gimp, lets give them something that is limited to red eye reduction"Jan 26 06:03
DaemonFC:DJan 26 06:03
jonoDaemonFC, do you even understand why we made the decision around the gimp?Jan 26 06:03
jonoand no, there is no MonobuntuJan 26 06:04
jono:)Jan 26 06:04
DaemonFCthen there was another silly argument I saw in the chatter that makes the case for Banshee by default because it supports your iPod (enough to corrupt the internal database, and Rhythmbox can do that too)Jan 26 06:04
jonoDaemonFC, there are lots of things people want by defaultJan 26 06:05
DaemonFCthe ipod starts sorting every song under Unknown ArtistsJan 26 06:05
jonoand there is a reason why we have a comprehensive processJan 26 06:05
DaemonFCif that's what you call compatible, then look outJan 26 06:05
jonoBanshee is a great music player, but it has problemsJan 26 06:05
jonobrbJan 26 06:05
DaemonFCjono: There's feature creep and then the "lets take this away because some people are confused"Jan 26 06:06
DaemonFCit's like saying an Aborigine tribe may not understand silverware, so lets take them away from people that doJan 26 06:06
DaemonFCit makes no sense to remove features that are useful to most people and are benign to the restJan 26 06:07
DaemonFCif you need room on the CD, toss Mono overboardJan 26 06:07
DaemonFCthat's a rather large runtime to run a few trivial unimportant things that have suitable replacements anywayJan 26 06:08
Ender2070amarok is betterJan 26 06:08
DaemonFCAnd *is* Banshee more functional? I would argue that it's notJan 26 06:08
DaemonFCBanshee won't let you listen to if you're a free userJan 26 06:08
DaemonFCRhythmbox is exempt from this requirement, per last.fmJan 26 06:09
DaemonFCso I would have to subscribe to for $3 a month to get substantially the same thing I was using before they made that ruleJan 26 06:10
DaemonFCif I was to use BansheeJan 26 06:10
DaemonFCit's only $3 a month I agree, but it's $3 a month that Rhythmbox doesn't make me payJan 26 06:10
DaemonFCEnder2070: I was wondering why Amarok didn't apply for a similar exemptionJan 26 06:11
DaemonFCor Banshee for that matterJan 26 06:11
DaemonFCthey'll grant an exemption for any FOSS not for profit music playerJan 26 06:11
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Melamine-laced milk products still sold after deaths, 300K kids ill in 2008: back to business as usual in #China #greedJan 26 06:28
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@jdub How do people become such gigantic, thick-headed asshats? An anti Halal Vegemite petition // it's a racist nationJan 26 06:29
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DaemonFCMicrosoft uses what I like to call the cat-with-laser approach to securityJan 26 06:32
DaemonFCwhen you ask Microsoft why their products are not secure, they shine a laser pointer on the wallJan 26 06:32
DaemonFCand you, the cat, go chase it and feel like you're accomplishing something, and then you take a napJan 26 06:32
DaemonFCor rather, the "tech journalists" doJan 26 06:33
DaemonFCthe "journalists" seem to be infinitely forgiving with Microsoft no matter how many times and how often Windows springs leaksJan 26 06:33
FurnaceBoy <-- waiting for mah free copee of Win 7Jan 26 06:33
phIRCe-BNcTitle: tilted carl on Flickr - Photo Sharing! .::. Size~: 48.13 KBJan 26 06:33
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: of course. you seem surprised.Jan 26 06:34
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: Microsoft is the ringmaster in a great circus...Jan 26 06:34
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: and the hilarious part is, it's not really about technology at allJan 26 06:34
DaemonFCBetaNews will mod you down if you criticize anything MicrosoftJan 26 06:35
FurnaceBoytechnical discussion is the oil they put on the road to throw off pursuitJan 26 06:35
FurnaceBoythe geeks start chasing it, like your catJan 26 06:35
FurnaceBoycrime is all about managing distractionJan 26 06:35
DaemonFCTechnical discussion is like 10 articles of omgwtfbbq .NET is great!!!!!Jan 26 06:35
FurnaceBoyyou can do whatever you want as long as people are looking in some other directionJan 26 06:36
DaemonFCfollowed by "Ho-hum, Patch Tuesday, 57 security holes plugged. Same time next month."Jan 26 06:36
FurnaceBoylet me say that again/ crime is all about achieving MISDIRECTIONJan 26 06:36
FurnaceBoyit's analogous to shock doctrine. Invade on pretext of giving earthquake aid. etc.Jan 26 06:36
DaemonFCI don't get how anything FOSS or not springs this damned many leaksJan 26 06:36
DaemonFCare they really that sloppy?Jan 26 06:36
FurnaceBoyyes, and you're missing a couple of pointsJan 26 06:37
FurnaceBoy1) the market does not punish MS incompetence (see: monopoly)Jan 26 06:37
DaemonFCyou'd think there would be a limit as to how many thousands of times they'd have to patch IE aloneJan 26 06:37
DaemonFCmuch less all elseJan 26 06:37
FurnaceBoy2) it's never really been about the technology (see: monopoly)Jan 26 06:37
FurnaceBoythey don't HAVE to be good.Jan 26 06:37
FurnaceBoythey get paid anyway, with every PC you buy.Jan 26 06:37
FurnaceBoythey're completely disconnected from the marketJan 26 06:37
DaemonFCno, I want to know how the hell IE 6 for example, can still have so many security holes when the damned thing has been patched every month for the last 9 yearsJan 26 06:38
FurnaceBoythis is why i laugh so hard when free market wonks point to them as the epitome of success.Jan 26 06:38
DaemonFCit hasn't been actively developed, just patchedJan 26 06:38
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: "40,000 developers"Jan 26 06:39
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: every open source browser is 100% or close to 100% compliant.Jan 26 06:39
DaemonFCthe thing shipped when I was 17, I will be 26 in a few monthsJan 26 06:39
FurnaceBoyWhy? Because they wouldn't be accepted if they fell short.Jan 26 06:39
FurnaceBoyIE lands on your desk whether you want it or not.Jan 26 06:39
DaemonFCand they're still patching it like crazy every monthJan 26 06:39
FurnaceBoywhether it's 13% or 22% compliant.Jan 26 06:39
FurnaceBoywhether it has 1,000 exploits or 4,000Jan 26 06:39
FurnaceBoydoesn't matter.Jan 26 06:39
FurnaceBoyyou get it anyway.Jan 26 06:39
DaemonFCwell, to make things worse, they hid some of the patches in Windows service packsJan 26 06:40
DaemonFCso there's no tellingJan 26 06:40
FurnaceBoywell, would you show your anal warts on a first date?Jan 26 06:40
FurnaceBoyjust accept that Microsoft does not compete. it's not in their DNA.Jan 26 06:41
DaemonFC 26 06:41
FurnaceBoythey only know how to operate as a monopoly with lock-in. they only have strategies that involve lock-in. that's it. accept itJan 26 06:41
DaemonFC23 unpatched out of 184 totalJan 26 06:41
FurnaceBoyengineering is just a sideshow. They do *just enough* of that to get byJan 26 06:41
FurnaceBoyof course it's not of direct interest, it's only a distraction. if they can ignore a problem, they will (like the vulnerability that felled Google)Jan 26 06:42
FurnaceBoythis is the opposite of open source, where you live or die quite strictly on the tech.Jan 26 06:42
FurnaceBoyAdobe is the same. they ignore all kinds of problems, because THEY CAN.. because Photoshop, etc, monopolise the market.Jan 26 06:43
FurnaceBoyused to drive me crazy when I used their stuff every day.Jan 26 06:43
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: quality *costs*. it cuts into profit.Jan 26 06:44
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: so why would you even go there?Jan 26 06:44
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: see: CHINAJan 26 06:45
FurnaceBoythe "free market" theory is a race to the bottom. as we see proven daily.Jan 26 06:45
FurnaceBoyand once you get a monopoly, market effects are turned off. That was Gates' crowning achievement.Jan 26 06:45
FurnaceBoynow we have to help them climb down and restore our dignity as a civilisation.Jan 26 06:46
FurnaceBoy(though, visions of toppling statues with tanks are forgivable at this point)Jan 26 06:46
DaemonFCIE is an example of why build with steel when you can use plasticJan 26 06:48
FurnaceBoyyes.Jan 26 06:48
DaemonFC:)Jan 26 06:48
FurnaceBoyit's not build to last.Jan 26 06:48
FurnaceBoyit's a bullet point.Jan 26 06:48
FurnaceBoyits purpose is not to be good tech. Its purpose is to FURTHER THE LOCK-IN.Jan 26 06:48
FurnaceBoyAnd the same is true for EVERY product Microsoft makes or will make.Jan 26 06:49
FurnaceBoynow do you see why they are bad quality???Jan 26 06:49
FurnaceBoythere's no surprise here once you figure out what they really do.Jan 26 06:49
FurnaceBoysorry to repeat myself. They don't get paid for being any good. They like it that they get paid no matter what, and that's the system they set up, and want to perpetuate. We don't have to play along.Jan 26 06:50
DaemonFCno uninstaller = It's part of Windows, live with itJan 26 06:50
DaemonFCeven if you never use it, it can still let malware inJan 26 06:50
FurnaceBoyright, because uninstalling IE goes against the narrative.Jan 26 06:50
FurnaceBoygoes against its purpose.Jan 26 06:51
FurnaceBoy(real purpose. not its apparent purpose)Jan 26 06:51
DaemonFCI noticed on Windows Server, you can't "uninstall IE" like you can in Windows 7Jan 26 06:52
FurnaceBoyanyway, their strategy is self-defeating. it's a leaky boat. it's just so darn slow to sink...Jan 26 06:52
DaemonFCbrowsing around on a server using IE seems like a very bad ideaJan 26 06:52
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: because consumers are more sensitive to itJan 26 06:52
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: runnign Windows on a server is suicidal. IE or not.Jan 26 06:52
DaemonFCyet the administrator can't turn it offJan 26 06:52
DaemonFCit has the "high security pack" enabled by defaultJan 26 06:53
DaemonFCwith that on, IE won't even allow you to view most sitesJan 26 06:53
FurnaceBoyfalse peace of mindJan 26 06:53
FurnaceBoy"What about security?" "We have the High Security Pack!" "Oh, OK. Here's your check."Jan 26 06:54
DaemonFCit was hell trying to figure out how to turn that off so I could download FirefoxJan 26 06:54
FurnaceBoyit's supposed to be hard to install Firefox or any 3rd party browser.Jan 26 06:54
FurnaceBoyI've had the same experience.Jan 26 06:54
FurnaceBoythey deliberately make it a tangled maze of things you have to enable and disable.Jan 26 06:54
FurnaceBoyit's very deliberateJan 26 06:54
DaemonFCit's not difficult on Windows, just Windows ServerJan 26 06:55
DaemonFCcause of that damned "security pack"Jan 26 06:55
FurnaceBoyit's a maze on Windows as well.Jan 26 06:55
FurnaceBoya fresh XP install.Jan 26 06:55
FurnaceBoyyou have to do about 8 things before it will install.Jan 26 06:55
FurnaceBoyand this is intentionalJan 26 06:55
DaemonFCdownload it and double click?Jan 26 06:55
FurnaceBoyno.Jan 26 06:55
FurnaceBoyfar from it.Jan 26 06:55
FurnaceBoyyou have all kinds of security warnings to click throughJan 26 06:55
DaemonFCoh that "This file isn't signed" crapJan 26 06:56
FurnaceBoyit's not just oneJan 26 06:56
DaemonFCthat's been there since XP SP2Jan 26 06:56
FurnaceBoyseriously, there are a surprising number of steps, and it's all carefully planned to be difficult and to make the user think they are doing something unsafe.Jan 26 06:56
FurnaceBoyevery time they can discourage, a % give upJan 26 06:56
FurnaceBoysee?Jan 26 06:56
DaemonFCit's a nuisance to run anything you downloadJan 26 06:56
FurnaceBoyniteJan 26 07:03
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Ender2070<DaemonFC> Ender2070: I was wondering why Amarok didn't apply for a similar exemptionJan 26 09:30
Ender2070not sure but amarok's dependancies are smaller than mono'sJan 26 09:31
DaemonFCRhythmbox is the only client I've seen that can still log in without you paying them moneyJan 26 09:31
Ender2070?Jan 26 09:32
Ender2070i dont understand the hype of last.fmJan 26 09:32 changed their terms of use and enforce it with an "API key"Jan 26 09:32
DaemonFCbut they make exceptions for FOSS music players that are not for profitJan 26 09:32
Ender2070they probably share your personality profile with people tooJan 26 09:33
DaemonFCso Rhythmbox has this API key and the rest don'tJan 26 09:33
DaemonFCit's not like they have your name and addressJan 26 09:33
Ender2070your ip is just as goodJan 26 09:33
DaemonFCthe information would only be useful in aggregateJan 26 09:33
DaemonFCit's like putting down that your name is Seymour Butts and you live at 123 Fake St, on your grocery store's discount card applicationJan 26 09:34
DaemonFCI don't ever put my real name and address on that shitJan 26 09:35
DaemonFCthey'd spam me or sell my information and buying habits to people who wouldJan 26 09:35
DaemonFCand you just gave the FBI one more thing they can get a warrant for (not that I care if they know I eat potato chips)Jan 26 09:36
DaemonFCbut say someone's house burns down Jan 26 09:36
DaemonFCit's well known you have a grudge against them, and your shopper's card says you bought fire logs the day beforeJan 26 09:36
DaemonFCI've learned that the less shit the government can subpoena about you, the less wrong accusations they can makeJan 26 09:38
Ender2070if you do nothing wrong you're rightJan 26 09:38
Ender2070however, if you do something else with your IP that does link you to your addressJan 26 09:39
DaemonFCit happens all the time that the feds go out and accuse someone who did nothing wrongJan 26 09:39
DaemonFCput them in a world of shitJan 26 09:39
DaemonFCthey even investigated Eminem for singing about dead presidents (money, obviously)Jan 26 09:39
DaemonFCwhy would you trust them to do anything sane?Jan 26 09:39
DaemonFCfreeze your bank accounts, get you in trouble and fired from workJan 26 09:40
Ender2070lolJan 26 09:40
DaemonFCput you in prison for 50 years with no evidence and one witness who was drunk at the timeJan 26 09:40
Ender2070employers search facebook these days for their employees or applicantsJan 26 09:41
DaemonFCoh yeah, you know they doJan 26 09:41
Ender2070governments have used facebook photos to take people off of social assistance programs tooJan 26 09:41
DaemonFCthere's all kinds of reasons that they have for not calling you back and you'd never have thought about itJan 26 09:41
DaemonFCyeah, wasn't that in Canada?Jan 26 09:42
DaemonFCinsurance said she was smiling so she wasn't depressedJan 26 09:42
DaemonFCyou're depressed and therefore totally incapable of smiling for 3 secondsJan 26 09:42
DaemonFClong enough to be in a photoJan 26 09:43
DaemonFCalmost anyone can force themselves to smile in a pictureJan 26 09:43
DaemonFCoesn't mean they're happyJan 26 09:43
DaemonFC*doesn'tJan 26 09:43
Ender2070lolJan 26 09:44
DaemonFCI really would hope that their excuse to stop paying her doesn't hold up in courtJan 26 09:44
DaemonFCEnder2070: Obviously you deserve to lose your public assistance if you are stupid enough to get on Facebook and talk about all the money you have Jan 26 09:45
DaemonFC"Why thank you for telling us, now we don't have to work to find that out!"Jan 26 09:45
DaemonFCor better yet, get on there with a joint hanging out of your mouth with marijuana leaf gifs flashing on the border of the page, with sparkly "420 4 LIFE!!!!!" all over Jan 26 09:47
DaemonFCand see how long you're on Section 8 housing and food stampsJan 26 09:47
DaemonFCEnder2070: I don't have sympathy for people that get on there and tell on themselvesJan 26 09:48
DaemonFCpeople volunteer all kinds of personal info on those sites that they'd never tell a random personJan 26 09:49
DaemonFCEnder2070: A CNA that works at the nursing home my mom does took a picture of their new medicine cartJan 26 09:49
DaemonFCposted it on FacebookJan 26 09:49
DaemonFCcaptioned it "Where we keep the bodies"Jan 26 09:50
DaemonFCand was fired the next dayJan 26 09:50
DaemonFC8-)Jan 26 09:50
DaemonFCif I was the boss, or law enforcement, or whatever, I would definitely kick back and let the people I was watching do my job for meJan 26 09:51
DaemonFCit makes perfect senseJan 26 09:51
DaemonFClooking through my commentsJan 26 09:59
DaemonFCspam, spam, spam, Russian viagra spamJan 26 09:59
DaemonFCbuy cheap DVDsJan 26 09:59
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] The crime that brought @BillGates to where he is now. 26 11:30
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Gary Kildal - The man who could have become Bill Gates. | GHABUNTU .::. Size~: 97.68 KBJan 26 11:30
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oiaohm  Yep they got gimp out of ubuntu here is the next wave.Jan 26 12:16
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Berkeley Linux Users Group  » Blog Archive   » Banshee and Android Rock Together . . . Or Why Ubuntu Should Drop Rhythmbox .::. Size~: 30.62 KBJan 26 12:16
EruaranI wonder where Ubuntu is headingJan 26 12:19
oiaohmHopefully 2011 all this .net stuff will expode and we will see end of problem.Jan 26 12:21
EruaranI hope soJan 26 12:21
EruaranWhat are the thinkingJan 26 12:22
Eruaran*theyJan 26 12:22
oiaohmUbuntu does a lot of strong arming the open source world.Jan 26 12:22
oiaohmLike shipping with unstable parts like grub2 in the idea that some how more people using it will get it ready sooner.Jan 26 12:23
oiaohmSame with kicking gimp out some how that will make developers address issues faster.Jan 26 12:23
oiaohmIe basically things don't work taht way.Jan 26 12:23
EruaranA friend was telling me only today how much he likes the GIMPJan 26 12:24
EruaranNeither of us have ever been fans of PhotoshopJan 26 12:24
EruaranGIMP is getting its big refactoring this year, it sounds very positiveJan 26 12:26
oiaohmIt will take until end of year before the refactor is complete EruaranJan 26 12:30
oiaohmOr the start of next year.Jan 26 12:30
oiaohmHuge little project doing refactors.Jan 26 12:30
oiaohmBlender interface refactor is going to take until the middle of this year.Jan 26 12:31
EruaranYes, I'm just registering my optimism.Jan 26 12:32
oiaohmI have used the development tree gimp.Jan 26 12:33
oiaohmIt is good.Jan 26 12:33
*schestowitz <3 GIMPJan 26 12:33
oiaohmSame with the development tree blender.Jan 26 12:33
EruaranI wasn't aware that Blender was as wellJan 26 12:33
EruaranSounds goodJan 26 12:33
oiaohmI do find development tree blender far nicer.Jan 26 12:33
oiaohmBlender has there first alpha of the new interface out.Jan 26 12:34
*schestowitz former user of Photoshop and Paintshop (going back to teenage years)Jan 26 12:34
EruaranHi schestowitzJan 26 12:34
schestowitz:-)Jan 26 12:34
oiaohmBlender new version you can change interface on fly EruaranJan 26 12:34
EruaranI used to use Paintshop Pro all those years agoJan 26 12:34
oiaohmAnd I really do mean change interface on fly.Jan 26 12:34
oiaohmYou edit the source code to the python driven gui parts of wine.  As you are editing the code the changes in interface are apearing.Jan 26 12:35
oiaohmopps wine/blenderJan 26 12:35
Eruaranwhat theJan 26 12:35
Eruaranthat sounds crazy goodJan 26 12:35
oiaohmChange key maps on fly as well.Jan 26 12:36
oiaohmRecordable macros something blenders never had.Jan 26 12:36
oiaohmThreaded back end for processing so gui of blender never is useable.Jan 26 12:37
oiaohmediting models in blender while amination is going on with the model.Jan 26 12:37
oiaohmYou are talking a tool that has jumped from the 1980~s of interface to something so modern its insane.  With blender EruaranJan 26 12:38
Eruaran:DJan 26 12:39
oiaohmYet when they get all this complete there is already a new list of features to start on.Jan 26 12:39
oiaohmGenerated 3d sound from 3d worlds is currently in development.  And augmented releatity as well.  That is for the blenders after what they are working on.Jan 26 12:40
oiaohmBlender could end up a nice video editor even if you don't want to use the 3d part.Jan 26 12:40
EruaranwowJan 26 12:42
Eruaranlike a complete suiteJan 26 12:42
Eruarando it all with blenderJan 26 12:42
oiaohmblender is basically a complete suite for 3d amination all bar sound at moment.Jan 26 12:43
oiaohmIncluding cutting the final movie..Jan 26 12:43
oiaohmYou can even paint you models in blender.Jan 26 12:43
EruaranI didn't know thatJan 26 12:44
EruaranI have a friend who uses BlenderJan 26 12:44
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Publisher Discovers That Removing #DRM Leads to Double the Sales 26 12:44
EruaranI've never done more than the most basic poking about with itJan 26 12:44
phIRCe-BNcTitle: O'Reilly drops ebook DRM, sees 104% increase in sales  Boing Boing .::. Size~: 115.43 KBJan 26 12:44
oiaohmRemember blenders non development interfaces was mostly designed back in the 1980~sJan 26 12:45
oiaohmSo short cuts used are completelly alien to current day short cuts EruaranJan 26 12:45
oiaohmSo cntl-v does not equal paste it equals something completely different.Jan 26 12:46
oiaohmIe the biggest problem with blender has not been what it can do.  But it  pure alien interface to current day.Jan 26 12:47
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mozilla Fights Against Patent Tax on Web Video 26 12:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Mozilla defends Firefox's HTML5 support for only Ogg Theora video - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 33.93 KBJan 26 12:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Mozilla buries heels on un-YouTube open video • The Register .::. Size~: 24.29 KBJan 26 12:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Mozilla takes on YouTube video choice | Deep Tech - CNET News .::. Size~: 61.37 KBJan 26 12:47
EruaranI'm a total noob with Blender, so all this impresses the hell out of meJan 26 12:49
oiaohmI am looking forward to when linking in multi of the same model can be done and have each model doing a different animation in the same seen in blender.Jan 26 12:50
oiaohmBasically blender is going to become more usable in so many ways.Jan 26 12:51
kecskebakSo is The GIMP - just as Bait'n'Switch GNU/Linux has dropped it.Jan 26 12:51
oiaohmGIMP is not magically going to disappear because some distribution don't ship it.Jan 26 12:53
kecskebakNo, I have a feeling it'll be back.Jan 26 12:53
kecskebakIf it goes away at all.Jan 26 12:53
oiaohmIf gimp disappears completely I would not be supprised if blender was not the cause.Jan 26 12:54
kecskebakPaint programs are so personal to an artist's workflow that they hand around a long time. Paint Shop Pro has hung around much longer than I thought.Jan 26 12:54
oiaohmThing that is shocking with blender is how much functionality they have got into something under 15 megs.Jan 26 12:54
kecskebakNot written in Mono then ;)Jan 26 12:56
EruaranUnder 15mb ?Jan 26 12:56
Eruaran:OJan 26 12:56
oiaohmC C++ python  kecskebakJan 26 12:56
kecskebakI've been playing with Vala the past couple of weeks. It's very clever.Jan 26 12:57
oiaohmGrapical envorment of blender.  Is its own done in opengl.Jan 26 12:57
oiaohmBlender does not even care about attempting to blend into the native OS.Jan 26 12:58
kecskebakI used to work with 3D artists, and then spend all day in the 3D program - a bit like someone like RMS would spend all day in Emacs, so that doesn't matter at all.Jan 26 12:58
kecskebakThey tended to use the computer with the scanner on it for e-mail and things like thatJan 26 12:59
oiaohmNow that blender has a fully reprogramable interface they have even less reason to leave it.Jan 26 13:00
kecskebakI remember one of the guys I used to work with wanted to be able to check his mail from the 3D program. I suppose he can now.Jan 26 13:00
oiaohmAs long as he can convince python todo it yep kecskebakJan 26 13:01
oiaohm  Some people Jan 26 13:06
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Record-setting Linux - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 137.48 KBJan 26 13:06
oiaohm  Ok wierd.Jan 26 13:15
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Diamond Oceans Possible on Uranus, Neptune  : Discovery News .::. Size~: 43.21 KBJan 26 13:15
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Wéér nieuw lek in MSIE. Lek is reeds twee jaar bekend en volgens Microsoft is het "a feature": 26 13:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Nieuw IE-lek geeft hacker leesrechten | Webwereld .::. Size~: 48.11 KBJan 26 13:47
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] New (two years old) IE flaw gives hackers read rights. According to Microsoft it's another "feature". 26 13:56
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Google Bericht .::. Size~: 1.17 KBJan 26 13:56
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] Plz Endorse!! Statement demanding justice to chitralekha, a #dalit Woman auto driver harassed by CPIM & Police 26 13:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: URGENTLY ENDORSE  JUSTICE FOR CHITRALEKHA | The Fish Pond .::. Size~: 67.54 KBJan 26 13:59
schestowitzMicrosoft talking strategy:Jan 26 14:03
schestowitz"They are just as evil"Jan 26 14:03
schestowitz"All software sucks"Jan 26 14:03
schestowitz"No operating system is secure"Jan 26 14:03
cubezzzwho is just as evil?Jan 26 14:06
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MinceReverybody and everythingJan 26 14:19
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Australia May Ban Infected #Windows PCs; Nearly Half of #Europe No Longer Uses Internet Explorer 26 14:50
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Australia May Ban Infected Windows PCs; Nearly Half of Europe No Longer Uses Internet Explorer  | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 106.94 KBJan 26 14:50
schestowitzcubezzz: Apple, Google, etc.Jan 26 15:00
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] RT @ivanka Looking for London-based #ubuntu users to participate in some user research. Please get in touch! #fbJan 26 15:10
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Twitter / ivanka majic: Looking for London-based # ... .::. Size~: 10.37 KBJan 26 15:10
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] An old article but worth a read anyway on MS / UK Gov / Open Source 26 15:12
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Contrary to popular opinion, some people don't use twitter/identica. Here's Ivankas contact details:- 26 15:19
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] In addition here's a forum thread.. #fbJan 26 15:20
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  London Ubuntu Users, participate in Canonical user testing! - Ubuntu Forums .::. Size~: 53.75 KBJan 26 15:20
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Inaccurate Reports About #FreeSoftware and how they may affect perception of Free(dom) software 26 15:25
phIRCe-BNcTitle: ur1 Generator .::. Size~: 2.26 KBJan 26 15:25
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] More details about #ubuntu user testing in London #fbJan 26 15:50
phIRCe-BNcTitle: You sound like youre from London! «  jorges stompbox .::. Size~: 27.25 KBJan 26 15:50
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] RT: @minix3: AST is speaking at FOSDEM ( ), where he will release MINIX 3.1.6! Preview to be announced soon!Jan 26 15:51
phIRCe-BNcTitle: .::. Size~: 22.89 KBJan 26 15:51
cubezzzwould IRC be considered a "chat room"?Jan 26 15:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] #UbuntuDeveloperWeek the session "Java libraries packaging" will begin in 10 minutes.Jan 26 15:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@whisper1111 teabaggers incensed to find out conventions are for RICH white folks // doubtful. have accepted role as elite's brownshirtsJan 26 15:56
FurnaceBoyhaJan 26 15:58
FurnaceBoythat will normally earn you derision.Jan 26 15:58
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schestowitzFurnaceBoy: I have a post for you...Jan 26 16:11
schestowitzOne moment....Jan 26 16:11
schestowitzThen I have to run to the barber... :-DJan 26 16:11
FurnaceBoyokJan 26 16:12
*FurnaceBoy has to go buy some stuff for breakfast too, bbsJan 26 16:12
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Rich Uncle Bill Comes to Visit the New York Times 26 16:15
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Rich Uncle Bill Comes to Visit the New York Times | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 101.9 KBJan 26 16:15
schestowitzThere^^. OK, gotta go nowJan 26 16:17
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Rsync - not to be confused with Arse Inc, which is in interesting company name which brings a mental image all it's own ;)Jan 26 16:30
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: I already tweeted about it yesterday :)Jan 26 16:34
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: ah, your article. will readJan 26 16:34
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Almost as much fun as watching /proc/mdstat is watching launchpad build my packages 26 16:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The Launchpad build farm .::. Size~: 67.63 KBJan 26 16:46
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] the cynic in me wonders if Rio wouldn't prefer a 3 match ban to give him more time to be properly match fit, and an excuse SAF can't ignoreJan 26 17:28
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] FSFE not mentioning software patents in their statement, swpats are absent of the WIPO report on exceptions to patent law: 26 17:48
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Karsten on Free Software  » FSFEs opening statement  at WIPO SCP/14 .::. Size~: 36.33 KBJan 26 17:48
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Gates Foundation is,at best,a sales front for Gates' own investments #fraud #greedJan 26 18:00
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Rich Uncle Bill Comes to Visit the New York Times | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 101.9 KBJan 26 18:00
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Reports of computer security disasters "forget" to mention #Windows' role: 26 18:01
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Australia May Ban Infected Windows PCs; Nearly Half of Europe No Longer Uses Internet Explorer  | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 108.13 KBJan 26 18:01
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_Goblinhi allJan 26 18:49
schestowitzHeyJan 26 18:54
_Goblinanything exciting happening?Jan 26 18:59
schestowitzgot back, brbJan 26 19:00
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Francisco Mingorance still lobbies for Software-Patents in the European Union: 26 19:16
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Francisco Mingorance still lobbies for Software-Patents in the European Union | Eurolinux Alliance .::. Size~: 15.63 KBJan 26 19:16
schestowitz> Hi, Roy,Jan 26 19:20
schestowitz> Jan 26 19:20
schestowitz> I guess this explains why CNet is fawning over Bill's minions in Haiti:Jan 26 19:20
schestowitz> Jan 26 19:20
schestowitz> 26 19:20
schestowitz> “I wouldn’t call anyone a monopolist,” .. Jan 26 19:21
schestowitz> 'He went on to say that historically companies that become “hyper-successful” invite government antitrust scrutiny ..'Jan 26 19:21
schestowitz> “If governments don’t care, that’s a bad sign,” Mr. Gates said.Jan 26 19:21
schestowitz> “There are several positive feedback loops in this business, and they are particularly powerful” [regarding Google]Jan 26 19:21
schestowitz> 'Microsoft is investing heavily in search — “the last big investor” other than Google' Jan 26 19:21
schestowitz> [ haaaa ? what the f**k is he on about ? Remember Microsoft was in 'search' way before Google, yea ?? ]Jan 26 19:21
schestowitz> “They’ve done nothing and gotten a lot of credit for it,”Jan 26 19:21
schestowitz> “Now, if Google ever chooses to pull out of the United States, then I’d give them credit.” Jan 26 19:21
schestowitz> [What a c*** !!!]Jan 26 19:22
schestowitz> 26 19:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 26 19:22
_GoblinI wouldn't even give his "work" a mention...with the amount of money he has what I have seen so far is merely a simple guesture.....its merely in my opinion a PR exercise.Jan 26 19:22
_Goblin(in respect of Haiti)Jan 26 19:22
schestowitz_Goblin: another decent show: 26 19:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Podcast 70 Colin Guthrie Interview | LinuxCrazy .::. Size~: 13.17 KBJan 26 19:22
_Goblincheers! I was looking for something to listen to....Jan 26 19:22
_Goblinno wrestling to watch!Jan 26 19:23
schestowitzPulseaudioJan 26 19:23
schestowitzThe guest is technically brilliant, the host just read questionsJan 26 19:23
balzacwhat's up royJan 26 19:24
balzacI'm thinking of horning in on the search business, eventuallyJan 26 19:24
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_Goblinhorning?  Sounds rather rude... ;) each to their own.Jan 26 19:26
schestowitzbalzac: dusruptech?Jan 26 19:28
schestowitz*isrJan 26 19:28
schestowitzI fell asleep at the saunaJan 26 19:29
DaemonFCoh my god, not another updateJan 26 19:29
schestowitzWoke up steamin'Jan 26 19:29
DaemonFCKeyboard function keys or keyboard shortcuts, such as mute or  calculator, may not work correctly. The notification icon for an application may be moved or lost when the  executable application is updated. On a computer that is running Windows 7, you configure the Screen Saver Settings to display the logon  screen on resume. Additionally, you configure the computer to go to  sleep. However, the computer may not go to sleep afteJan 26 19:30
DaemonFCI've had the second one happen a lotJan 26 19:30
DaemonFCthe third one sounds like it could be fun to experience on a laptopJan 26 19:30
DaemonFC"May not go to sleep, may display black screen instead" - Does this mean "May overheat and burn itself up by the time you get back"?Jan 26 19:31
DaemonFCto quote Bernie Mac from Bad Santa "Sweet Jews for Jesus!"Jan 26 19:32
_GoblinYoure right Roy....Interviewer sounds like he is merely reading from a script and knows nothing about the subject.Jan 26 19:32
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DaemonFCI've been having the icon bug happen since before the betaJan 26 19:33
_Goblinwhat bug are you talking about?Jan 26 19:33
DaemonFCyou know lots of other people have been cursing and spitting over thatJan 26 19:33
schestowitzHey, trmanCAJan 26 19:33
trmancoyHelloJan 26 19:33
schestowitz_Goblin: WindowsJan 26 19:34
schestowitzDaemonFOX is a Windows [l]userJan 26 19:34
schestowitz:-pJan 26 19:34
DaemonFC_Goblin: Like, when I install Firefox for example, right? And then the updater installs a new version, I "might" lose my desktop and start menu icons for Firefox and Windows 7 displays the "dead shortcut" icon for it insteadJan 26 19:34
_GoblinAh... Windows 7Jan 26 19:34
_GoblinIve given that a long test......Jan 26 19:34
DaemonFCit's one of the more aggravating bugs I've seenJan 26 19:35
_Goblinso that I can't be accused of giving it a fair shot.Jan 26 19:35
_Goblin*not givingJan 26 19:35
DaemonFCeventually you update enough programs and every icon on your desktop and taskbar and start menu is deadJan 26 19:35
schestowitzGood luck with thatJan 26 19:35
DaemonFCThey didn't mention that on the "It's better than Vista" crusadeJan 26 19:35
trmancoI got sick alreadyJan 26 19:36
schestowitz"It's better than Linux" was the crusadeJan 26 19:36
_GoblinYou know my biggest problem with Win7? It how I have to my left a state of the art brand new PC running Windows 7 and performing the same tasks as my Linux rig (which is on 4year old hardware) much much slower....Jan 26 19:36
DaemonFCit's yet another "slap it until it goes away" nuisance bugJan 26 19:36
schestowitz"It's better with Windows" was their shill's sloganJan 26 19:36
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NewsTechnica: Britain's first iPhone baby is born 26 19:36
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Britains first iPhone baby is born | NewsTechnica .::. Size~: 38.17 KBJan 26 19:36
_GoblinA linux rig with 4 year old hardware runs quicker than Windows 7 on latest specs....go figure...Jan 26 19:37
DaemonFCI don't know how something so obvious and stupid nd simple to fix could have made it through a year of testing and into the final versionJan 26 19:37
_Goblincomparing like for like:Jan 26 19:37
DaemonFCit speaks for their "testing" processJan 26 19:37
_GoblinChromium is a clear 3 seconds quicker on the load than Windows 7Jan 26 19:37
_GoblinFirefox...too..Jan 26 19:37
DaemonFCas in the Chromium OS?Jan 26 19:37
_Goblinno sorry, browserJan 26 19:38
DaemonFCI was going to say no shit it starts up quicker, all you have when you get booted up is a browserJan 26 19:38
DaemonFC:)Jan 26 19:38
_GoblinEmulation of other systems is faster in Linux, infact one step further Linux can run Emulators that are written for Windows quicker than Windows can.Jan 26 19:38
DaemonFCit'll start up quicker than Ubuntu or Fedora or Mandriva tooJan 26 19:38
schestowitz_Goblin: 26 19:38
phIRCe-BNcTitle: I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but... - Big Brother Watch .::. Size~: 41.32 KBJan 26 19:38
schestowitz"Jan 26 19:38
schestowitzNot only did Dr David Kelly die in suspicious circumstances - but now, thanks to Lord Hutton, the medical evidence about those circumstances will not be revealed for 70 years.Jan 26 19:38
schestowitzLord Hutton's inquiry ruled that Kelly had killed himself.  And Hutton heard all the evidence.  If the medical evidence supports that conclusion, why seal it for 70 years?Jan 26 19:38
schestowitz"Jan 26 19:39
DaemonFCthey're getting really fucking sloppy though, issuing patches sporadically, out of band is becoming their normJan 26 19:40
_Goblinschestowitz: Now you have a point, that is a strange one.Jan 26 19:40
DaemonFCevery day there's a patch that makes you rebootJan 26 19:40
DaemonFCit's not reasonableJan 26 19:40
_Goblinschestowitz: I certaom;y find the Kelly case interesting...Jan 26 19:40
_Goblin*certainlyJan 26 19:40
DaemonFC_Goblin: The sick thing is that companies don't _want_ to reboot every day, so they put off security updates while there are worms running around doing anything and everythingJan 26 19:42
DaemonFCIf there's one most compelling reason for them to get off Windows, I'd say that's probably itJan 26 19:42
cubezzzof course they don't want to reboot every dayJan 26 19:44
cubezzzthat's normalJan 26 19:44
cubezzz14:41:31 up 99 days, 11:19,  9 users,  load average: 0.20, 0.38, 0.40Jan 26 19:44
cubezzzif I had a longer lasting ups I'd probably have uptimes in yearsJan 26 19:45
cubezzzbut yes, it's a compelling reason Jan 26 19:47
_GoblinIve never left one of my own machines on for longer than about 32 hours.....ever.Jan 26 19:47
cubezzzI coax my customers to at least use dual bootJan 26 19:47
cubezzzwell, I'm running a serverJan 26 19:47
_Goblinthe best way for newbies to Linux IMO.Jan 26 19:47
DaemonFCThere was a patch for Windows 98 that amused me once..."Your computer may crash after 49.7 days of uptime"Jan 26 19:48
DaemonFCisn't that like, bending the laws of the universe?Jan 26 19:48
cubezzzno, I've seen windows go more than 50 days without rebootingJan 26 19:48
cubezzzbut that was windows 2k not windows 98Jan 26 19:49
DaemonFCif they issued a patch that said "Your computer may crash after 0.1 days of uptime" I'd believe themJan 26 19:49
DaemonFCif you leave Windows 98 sitting there, it will crash itself eventuallyJan 26 19:49
DaemonFCI did notice there's an active project to extend Windows 98 called "KernelEx" which lets it run Windows XP programsJan 26 19:50
DaemonFCI'm surprised that many people still use it or careJan 26 19:50
cubezzzno, I see Vista/XP/Windows 7 Jan 26 19:51
DaemonFCI've had way more trouble out of Windows 7 than XP x64Jan 26 19:51
cubezzzthere's still some win95 boxes out thereJan 26 19:51
DaemonFCI haven't ever managed to crash XP x64, I can crash Windows 7 easily, and there's all these stupid little bugs like the icons thingJan 26 19:52
DaemonFChell, one day I was listening to an MP3, that's all I was doing, and Windows 7 blue screened and rebootedJan 26 19:53
_Goblinas the weeks have gone on using Win7, the powerdown and bootup times have suffered.Jan 26 19:53
DaemonFC_Goblin: Well, it's continuing the fine tradition of the Pre-SP1 Rule if you ask meJan 26 19:53
_Goblinbut even when it was "fresh" it still didn't perform as fast as Linux....Jan 26 19:53
DaemonFC_Goblin: Most people don't turn off Windows Defender, that's a mistakeJan 26 19:54
DaemonFCany antivirus you're likely to install detects way more spywareJan 26 19:54
DaemonFCno reason to have Defender running at allJan 26 19:54
DaemonFChell, I even think ClamWin detects moer spywareJan 26 19:55
DaemonFCthe last time I saw statistics, Windows Defender was catching like 47% of malware thrown at it, and even ClamWin was managing 56%Jan 26 19:56
cubezzzman, why even bother using doze?Jan 26 19:56
DaemonFCmehJan 26 19:56
cubezzzis it fun complaining about it?Jan 26 19:56
DaemonFCbecause I didn't realize what a no-lube, no-reach around experience Wine was when coupled with FGLRXJan 26 19:56
cubezzza job is a job, but for personal use there's no point Jan 26 19:57
DaemonFCmostlyJan 26 19:57
DaemonFCso until FGLRX is unfucked or or the ati driver is better, I'm on Windows if I want 100% of my GPU to workJan 26 19:57
DaemonFCI might have held my nose and bought Nvidia again if I knew that shaders were broken in Wine on ATI cards (all of them)Jan 26 19:58
cubezzzeven for games (which isn't often) I still use GNU/LinuxJan 26 19:58
DaemonFCI don't know, it's a catch-22, support Nvidia or support MicrosoftJan 26 19:59
DaemonFCI don't like either of themJan 26 19:59
DaemonFCMicrosoft isn't donating to TEA Party causes though, Nvidia isJan 26 19:59
DaemonFClike Proposition 8Jan 26 19:59
DaemonFCit really burns me that I've ever given Nvidia's Teabagging CEO and Board of Directors so much as one of my dollars to pursue that shit withJan 26 20:00
cubezzzI'm not sure what to suggest for video cardsJan 26 20:00
DaemonFCNvidia's hardware is even behindJan 26 20:01
DaemonFCATI is pretty much, dollar for dollar, the best performing hardware you will getJan 26 20:01
cubezzzI used to really like atiJan 26 20:02
DaemonFCtheir Linux driver leaves something to be desired, but I doubt with Nvidia, you will EVER see an Nvidia card working properly without a blobJan 26 20:02
DaemonFCand there's a good chance that ATI will work fine with no blob by the end of this yearJan 26 20:02
DaemonFCit already does for <4000 seriesJan 26 20:03
cubezzzthere's the nouveau driver, and the guys in #nouveau will talk to youJan 26 20:03
cubezzzwhich ATI card would you recommend?Jan 26 20:03
DaemonFCNouveau is not proceeding rapidly because they have to reverse engineer and guess, and trial and error everythingJan 26 20:03
DaemonFCthey are getting zilch as far as Nvidia's backingJan 26 20:03
cubezzzmy panasonic toughbook has ATI chipsetJan 26 20:03
DaemonFCthey may even get suedJan 26 20:03
cubezzzha, for what?Jan 26 20:04
DaemonFCI use a HIS RadeonHD 4670 with 1 GB of GDDR3Jan 26 20:04
DaemonFCcost me about $70Jan 26 20:04
DaemonFCI like itJan 26 20:04
DaemonFCI'd estimate it's about 75% supported by the current svn FOSS ati driverJan 26 20:05
DaemonFCwhat is working so far blows FGLRX performance entirely out of the waterJan 26 20:05
DaemonFClike, Compiz works, most native Linux games work, Prey works B-)Jan 26 20:06
DaemonFCDOOM III worksJan 26 20:06
DaemonFCsome games have texture corruption, Sauerbraten is mostly jsut a black screen with bad guys running aroundJan 26 20:06
DaemonFCgames in Wine , forget it for nowJan 26 20:06
schestowitz_Goblin: 70 years is enough to ensure we're all dead and our grandkids can't be arsed about it.....Jan 26 20:07
DaemonFCCompiz is smooth, FGLRX can't even run Compiz without frame dropoutsJan 26 20:07
DaemonFCFGLRX sucksJan 26 20:07
cubezzzif you're 20 now you could still be around at 90Jan 26 20:07
schestowitzIt wasn't until 2007 that I even started looking more closely at it. Did you know about the unsealed documents from 2008 which showed the Russian going to start nuclear war?Jan 26 20:07
DaemonFCoh, and FGLRX bugs not only drop frames in Compiz, somtimes the window animations are blackJan 26 20:07
cubezzzif you're 30 you could still be around at 100 :)Jan 26 20:07
DaemonFCcubezzz: 5% chanceJan 26 20:08
DaemonFCgive or takeJan 26 20:08
DaemonFC0% chance in most non-Western countriesJan 26 20:08
DaemonFCthere's a lot of places where if you live to 35, you've beaten the odds and you're a great-grandfatherJan 26 20:09
DaemonFCsad, isn't it?Jan 26 20:09
cubezzzthat sounds impossibleJan 26 20:09
DaemonFCI was making a pointJan 26 20:09
DaemonFCI think like, in Rwanda, you can be expected to live to like 38 on averageJan 26 20:09
DaemonFCa nice long life is highly unlikelyJan 26 20:10
cubezzzonly with infant mortality reducing the average to 35Jan 26 20:10
cubezzzI'm sure some of them live to 70 or 80Jan 26 20:10
DaemonFCinfant mortality, food shortage, HIV, Malaria, WarJan 26 20:10
DaemonFCWar with child soldiersJan 26 20:10
cubezzzyes, that would definitely reduce the average lifespanJan 26 20:11
DaemonFCyeah, this will impact your life expectancyJan 26 20:11
DaemonFCgovernments changing in a coup every year or threeJan 26 20:11
DaemonFCmassive external debt, civil war, riotingJan 26 20:11
DaemonFCcrime rate high because there are no police or they're all corrupt or don't careJan 26 20:12
DaemonFCthen with no police comes drug trafficking, contract hits, drug cartel wars in people's villagesJan 26 20:13
DaemonFCyou have a lot of problems just feeding each other in these placesJan 26 20:14
*jono has quit ("Ex-Chat")Jan 26 20:14
DaemonFCgovernment instability is pretty much the root cause of it, and a big contributing factor to that is international banks giving the government high interest abusive loans that corrupt officials spend on themselves instead of providing basic social servicesJan 26 20:15
DaemonFCthe IMF is pretty much an insurance policy that "first world" countries take out to keep the "third world" impoverished and susceptible to outside interestsJan 26 20:16
DaemonFCso this pretty much leads back to the same people that keep jacking up the number of years it takes for something to be public domainJan 26 20:17
*jono (n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovellJan 26 20:17
DaemonFCthe same imaginary property laws that keep people that can't pay for books and music illiterate, keep the third world starving with no access to medicineJan 26 20:18
DaemonFCI actually hope that ACTA falls apart over some kind of international bickering (treaties sometimes do) because its passage would take away many life-saving medications from people that need them who can get them for pennies on the dollar Jan 26 20:20
DaemonFCyou watch, after ACTA, drug companies will do some fake charity like they do for people with no insurance hereJan 26 20:20
DaemonFC"give away" a few of "their pills", not enough to meet the needs, but enough to make it look like they give a shitJan 26 20:20
DaemonFCthey thrive by making 10 cents worth of pills and selling them for $100 a bottle or more hereJan 26 20:21
DaemonFCusing research that was mostly taxpayer-fundedJan 26 20:22
DaemonFCI really hope there's no Republican running against Senator Bayh this year, throw him out and replace him with a LibertarianJan 26 20:23
DaemonFCwe came close last timeJan 26 20:23
DaemonFCbag one ACTA-supporter right thereJan 26 20:24
DaemonFCschestowitz: I might ask to speak at the next Teabagger meetingJan 26 20:27
DaemonFCsee if I can rally some of them against ACTA, they already hate Democrats obviouslyJan 26 20:27
schestowitz 26 20:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: New Music Format File Can Be Updated Remotely | Techdirt .::. Size~: 69.55 KBJan 26 20:27
schestowitz[20:20] <DaemonFC> you watch, after ACTA, drug companies will do some fake charity like they do for people with no insurance hereJan 26 20:27
schestowitzThey have henchman for itJan 26 20:27
schestowitzLike Bill Pearly Gates Jan 26 20:28
schestowitzhe does the fake charityJan 26 20:28
schestowitzWhile spreading the patent of those cartels, which he invests inJan 26 20:28
trmancoany news?Jan 26 20:29
schestowitz"The big pharma company GSK will publish a list of some 13000 chemicals that might do some good against malaria, but is trying to make that sound like more than it is. The article becomes incoherent when it starts discussing what GSK will or won't do with its patents that restrict some of these drugs. Perhaps it is only offering to make deals with the other big pharma companies."Jan 26 20:29
schestowitz 26 20:29
schestowitz"We cannot really tell. What is clear is that GSK wants to avoid the real solution: poor countries should not allow patents on medicine. "Jan 26 20:29
schestowitzWhat a sick worldJan 26 20:29
schestowitztrmanco: none that's bigJan 26 20:29
trmanconothing related to canada?Jan 26 20:30
schestowitz 26 20:30
schestowitzCanada has bullies by Hollywood, as alwaysJan 26 20:30
trmancohmmmJan 26 20:32
schestowitz 26 20:37
phIRCe-BNcTitle: ACLU : Close Guantánamo .::. Size~: 12.27 KBJan 26 20:37
schestowitz 26 20:38
cubezzzStallman's been posting a lot of lateJan 26 20:38
*oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovellJan 26 20:38
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] It's a plane... no, it's a bird..... no, it's just CCTV. 26 20:40
oiaohmReally Australian infection numbers should not be shocking.  Australia has the highest us of MS products per head of population.Jan 26 20:44
schestowitz 26 20:45
oiaohmReally that drone thing is a double sided thing schestowitzJan 26 20:46
oiaohmOne it reduces the numbers of high speed driving police have todo.Jan 26 20:46
schestowitzIt's expensiveJan 26 20:46
schestowitzAnd it might not improve securityJan 26 20:46
oiaohmCompared to a helli copter chasing someone they are not that expensiveJan 26 20:47
schestowitzI knowJan 26 20:47
schestowitzMaybe they can float these off the van upon chasesJan 26 20:48
schestowitzThen have someone navigate it with a remoteJan 26 20:48
schestowitzGive instructions to people on the groundJan 26 20:48
schestowitz"They arrived on Sunday, 31 May last year. As they drove to their hotel, a Holiday Inn just two blocks from the Reformation Lutheran Church, they saw television cameras. They wondered what was going on, a passing curiosity quickly forgotten. But when they got to their room, the phone was ringing. Her father was on the line. "There was some doctor who was shot who does abortions," he said. They turned on CNN. Dr Tiller had just been Jan 26 20:48
schestowitzkilled, shot in the head as he passed out church leaflets."Jan 26 20:48
schestowitzI guess that in the US, one of the most dangerous jobs is in an abortion clinicJan 26 20:49
schestowitzDangerous to the doctor, not the embroysJan 26 20:49
schestowitz*embryosJan 26 20:49
cubezzzFoolishJan 26 20:49
oiaohmhigh speed police pursuit reduction usage they will pay for them selves.  schestowitzJan 26 20:49
trmancoI barely know how to write portuguese now :/Jan 26 20:49
cubezzzwhat is the world's pop now?Jan 26 20:49
oiaohmReally the Australian bat wings drones for high speed pursuit reduction would be more suitable.Jan 26 20:50
oiaohm   Most drones used by the australian mil are not that expensive since on the battle field australia mil presumes some of them will be lost.   The control system is expensiveJan 26 20:58
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Aussie Hovering Drone is Straight Outta Avatar | Danger Room | .::. Size~: 82.88 KBJan 26 20:58
trmancowell, time to goJan 26 20:59
trmancocya guys and gals*Jan 26 20:59
*trmanco has quit ("Page closed")Jan 26 21:02
schestowitztrmanco, it'll come backlJan 26 21:20
schestowitznever mind, too latJan 26 21:20
schestowitz*late *backJan 26 21:21
schestowitz 26 21:30
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Featured content | .::. Size~: 49.52 KBJan 26 21:30
schestowitzI have another posts 15 coming but no time to finish them....Jan 26 21:33
schestowitzLagJan 26 21:33
DaemonFCArticle I Section 32: The people shall have a right to bear  arms, for the defense of themselves and the State.Jan 26 21:33
schestowitzBacklog evenJan 26 21:33
DaemonFCnyaaaahJan 26 21:33
schestowitzAre you a cowboy?Jan 26 21:33
schestowitz < - DaemonFOXJan 26 21:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Brokeback Mountain (2005) .::. Size~: 76.07 KBJan 26 21:34
DaemonFCwell, under that, even if the second amendment of the federal constitution was repealed, I still have the right to bear arms as granted in Article I Section 32 of the Indiana ConstitutionJan 26 21:34
DaemonFC:DJan 26 21:34
DaemonFCthen there's the movie about erectile dysfunction, schestowitzJan 26 21:35
DaemonFCBrokedick FountainJan 26 21:35
DaemonFCschestowitz: 26 21:37
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Brokeback Mountain in 30 seconds with bunnies. .::. Size~: 4.55 KBJan 26 21:37
DaemonFC 26 21:38
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Bunny Bond Medley in 30 seconds with bunnies. .::. Size~: 4.09 KBJan 26 21:38
*jono_ ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 26 21:39
DaemonFC 26 21:40
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Star Wars in 30 seconds with bunnies. .::. Size~: 4.64 KBJan 26 21:40
oiaohmNow the question is who decides what is too big of arms for a person to have for defence  DaemonFCJan 26 21:40
schestowitzIFad. 26 21:40
phIRCe-BNcTitle: German retailer Tweets iPad details • Register Hardware .::. Size~: 20.38 KBJan 26 21:40
oiaohmI don't see people being happy if someone tried to have a nuke as a personal defence weapon DaemonFCJan 26 21:41
DaemonFCoiaohm: Well, I prefer the rocket launcher and the minigun myself, but....Jan 26 21:41
DaemonFCwe can't have everythingJan 26 21:41
oiaohmMortor and Mortor luancher can be built from general hardware supplies.Jan 26 21:42
schestowitzDaemonFOX must be scheming to attack his catJan 26 21:43
schestowitzoiaohm: *tar?Jan 26 21:43
DaemonFCyes, he's got weapons of mass destruction and yellow cake uranium, the British told meJan 26 21:43
schestowitzWho? Dr. Kelly?Jan 26 21:43
schestowitzEnough with weapon talkJan 26 21:44
DaemonFCthe British told me!Jan 26 21:44
DaemonFCthat's all you need to knowJan 26 21:44
schestowitzIt's barrels with chemicals, not pricksJan 26 21:44
schestowitzGuns are for cowardsJan 26 21:44
MinceR223812 < oiaohm> I don't see people being happy if someone tried to have a nuke as a personal defence weapon DaemonFCJan 26 21:44
MinceRbrings Snow Crash to mindJan 26 21:44
DaemonFCwell, it's nice to have friends as corrupt as you are, schestowitz Your great nation has taught us that.Jan 26 21:45
schestowitz 26 21:45
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Chinese Avatards scale Hallelujah Mountain • The Register .::. Size~: 22.36 KBJan 26 21:45
schestowitzMinceR, oiaohm: the Russian sold someJan 26 21:45
schestowitzThey put nuclear weapons ended up in the ends of some army vet/mafiaJan 26 21:46
schestowitzSubmarines tooJan 26 21:46
DaemonFCcorrupt allies make the world go 'roundJan 26 21:46
schestowitzSee 26 21:46
DaemonFCthey also doodle the invasion plan for you on a napkin and slip it under the table, then give you a hand jobJan 26 21:46
DaemonFCfor part of the take of courseJan 26 21:47
DaemonFCserviette=napkin for my English to English translationJan 26 21:48
schestowitzoiaohm: 26 21:48
phIRCe-BNcTitle: IBM's monster tape will take three days to fill • The Register .::. Size~: 25.44 KBJan 26 21:48
DaemonFCbefore there's any jokesJan 26 21:48
*jono has quit (Connection timed out)Jan 26 21:48
schestowitz 26 21:49
phIRCe-BNcTitle: SoCal school district bans the dictionary Boing Boing .::. Size~: 158.88 KBJan 26 21:49
schestowitz'Southern California's Menifee Union school district has banned the Merriam Webster's 10th edition from use in fourth and fifth grade classes, over this salacious definition of "oral sex": "oral stimulation of the genitals".'Jan 26 21:49
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Yup, #ubuntu is switching to Yahoo! for the search provider. #fbJan 26 21:49
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Yahoobuntu!!! | blog .::. Size~: 22.06 KBJan 26 21:49
schestowitzOMG they said "Stimulation"Jan 26 21:49
oiaohmWrite speed is the killer with tape.Jan 26 21:50
schestowitzYahoo!???Jan 26 21:50
schestowitzBut they are moving to the criminal companyJan 26 21:50
oiaohmThen retreve speed.Jan 26 21:50
oiaohmUbuntu is getting more criminalJan 26 21:50
oiaohmWhat Ubuntu has done is cut off funding to mozilla to go into there own pockets.Jan 26 21:51
oiaohmSo damaging the upstream.Jan 26 21:51
oiaohmReally it shows how much respect Ubuntu has for the open source world.  None.Jan 26 21:52
FurnaceBoywhat;s so special about "fourth and fifth grade"Jan 26 21:52
*FurnaceBoy sighsJan 26 21:52
FurnaceBoythey should loook up "salacious" before trying to use it in a sentenceJan 26 21:52
*jono_ is now known as jonoJan 26 21:52
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @popey But Yahoo! is going to redirect to the convicted monopoly that called Ubuntu "cancer"Jan 26 21:52
schestowitzomg! aliens: 26 21:52
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Top Gear's Stig prowls Loch Ness • The Register .::. Size~: 21.16 KBJan 26 21:52
oiaohmschestowitz: really it would not matter who they changed the search company to.Jan 26 21:53
oiaohmI hope mozilla hits ubuntu for trademark infringement.Jan 26 21:53
oiaohmAltering the search provider cutting of money normally pisses Mozilla off.Jan 26 21:53
schestowitzI thought about itJan 26 21:54
DaemonFCjono: has "no comment" I'm guessingJan 26 21:55
DaemonFCWhat is a PR frontperson to do?Jan 26 21:55
DaemonFCin such tumultuous times of perilJan 26 21:55
jonoDaemonFC, ?Jan 26 21:55
jonowhat do you want to discuss?Jan 26 21:55
DaemonFCYahellMonobuntuJan 26 21:55
DaemonFCof courseJan 26 21:55
schestowitzBarzmer is happyJan 26 21:55
jonoDaemonFC, riiiightJan 26 21:55
schestowitzMaybe she and Ballmer will rock tonight :-)Jan 26 21:56
DaemonFCnext thing you'll do is ship Ubuntu full of other crapwareJan 26 21:56
jonoschestowitzlolJan 26 21:56
DaemonFCto profit of courseJan 26 21:56
jonoDaemonFC, thats our plan actuallyJan 26 21:56
jonowe don't really like free softwareJan 26 21:56
jononever haveJan 26 21:56
jonoall those millions of dollars we plough into producing a free operating system is just a swindleJan 26 21:56
DaemonFCjono: Hey, I have an idea, ship it with a channel bar full of advertising for Mickey Mouse and crapJan 26 21:56
DaemonFCjust like Windows 98Jan 26 21:56
jonoDaemonFC, well, the wonderful thing about Open Source is the freedom of choiceJan 26 21:57
jonofeel free to use another OSJan 26 21:57
jonowe fully admit that Ubuntu does not meet everyone's needsJan 26 21:57
DaemonFCmight as well stick with Windows, especially in light of how fast Ubuntu is deterioratingJan 26 21:57
jonoDaemonFC, lolJan 26 21:57
jonoDaemonFC, do you not think that might be a bit harsh?Jan 26 21:57
DaemonFCnot reallyJan 26 21:58
jonoyou do realize all search engines monetize searchJan 26 21:58
jonoand you do realize that it costs money to build UbuntuJan 26 21:58
DaemonFCyeah, I'm aware of thatJan 26 21:58
DaemonFCbut you guys are switching to BingJan 26 21:58
jonoand that we fund over 100 developers to produce a free Operating systemJan 26 21:58
DaemonFCwhore yourselves outJan 26 21:58
DaemonFCthat's rightJan 26 21:58
jonoDaemonFC, no we are not, Yahoo! is not BingJan 26 21:58
jonoread the announcementJan 26 21:58
DaemonFCYahoo is using BingJan 26 21:58
jonoDaemonFC, whore ourselve s out?Jan 26 21:58
DaemonFCyou are promoting Bing via proxyJan 26 21:58
jonook, I am not participating in ignoranceJan 26 21:58
schestowitzjono: DaemonFOX is trolling people for attentionJan 26 21:58
jonothink you what you wantJan 26 21:58
DaemonFCI can get Bing as default in Internet ExplorerJan 26 21:59
schestowitzDon't pay too much atteniobJan 26 21:59
schestowitzJan 26 21:59
schestowitz[21:57] <DaemonFC> might as well stick with Windows, especially in light of how fast Ubuntu is deterioratingJan 26 21:59
schestowitzYou're a Windows uersJan 26 21:59
schestowitz*userJan 26 21:59
DaemonFCyeah, so?Jan 26 21:59
jonoDaemonFC, here's a suggestion, make a valid contributionJan 26 21:59
jonoschestowitz thankyouJan 26 21:59
FurnaceBoystick with windows? what's the point?Jan 26 21:59
*MinceR wonders how low can canonical stoopJan 26 21:59
jonoschestowitz sorry for the snarky tweet, bit of a shit day todayJan 26 21:59
jonoa friend of mine is illJan 26 21:59
DaemonFCdinner is done, bbiabJan 26 22:00
*FurnaceBoy goes to follow jonoJan 26 22:00
*DaemonFC has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Jan 26 22:00
schestowitzjono: something serious?Jan 26 22:00
schestowitz 26 22:00
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Entire UK will be on ID database sometime in next 3 millennia • The Register .::. Size~: 23.5 KBJan 26 22:00
schestowitzMeh. They start with MancJan 26 22:01
jonoschestowitz we hope notJan 26 22:01
jonoschestowitz ooh, so hows tricks?Jan 26 22:01
jonolong time since we had a chatJan 26 22:01
schestowitzYeah, we should speak sometimeJan 26 22:01
jonoschestowitz maybe a chat later this week?Jan 26 22:02
schestowitzHeh:- > 26 22:03
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Smut-peddling hackers pwn TechCrunch • The Register .::. Size~: 20.52 KBJan 26 22:03
schestowitzjono: sure :-)Jan 26 22:03
jono:)Jan 26 22:03
schestowitzTechCrunch sold out to Microsoft tooJan 26 22:03
schestowitz 26 22:03
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Malik, Arrington and Battelle: X-22, come in | News Blog - CNET News .::. Size~: 73.97 KBJan 26 22:04
schestowitz 26 22:09
phIRCe-BNcTitle: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 96.5 KBJan 26 22:09
schestowitz"The site, which profiles Silicon Valley start-ups and US firms, was offline for nearly four hours from 0630 GMT. "Jan 26 22:09
schestowitzThey say "hacker" [sic]Jan 26 22:09
_Goblinwhat an evening....picked up another "new" handle on my site...this one has a problem with Photoshop being even suggested for Ubuntu, but can't really say why...Jan 26 22:09
schestowitz_Goblin: we can have this discussion again :-)Jan 26 22:09
_Goblincool....prepare...Jan 26 22:10
schestowitz_Goblin: what do you think of most GNU/Linux users being directed for Microsoft to spy on their search habits? :-)Jan 26 22:10
schestowitz "More than 100 MPs are using the social networking site Twitter to communicate with voters, a survey suggests."Jan 26 22:10
phIRCe-BNcTitle: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 96.5 KBJan 26 22:10
_GoblinSorry, could you rephrase...Im not sure I get that...Jan 26 22:10
schestowitz_Goblin: I decided not to take the plane, we'll arrange over the weekend where in London to meet upJan 26 22:11
MinceR_Goblin: 26 22:11
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Yahoobuntu!!! | blog .::. Size~: 34.1 KBJan 26 22:11
MinceRyahoo is bingo in disguiseJan 26 22:11
_Goblinyep, so I gather...Jan 26 22:11
_GoblinI thought the "deal" was already complete.Jan 26 22:11
_Goblinor am I jumping the gun?Jan 26 22:11
schestowitzWHo knows......Jan 26 22:12
_Goblinnever yahoo anyway.Jan 26 22:12
schestowitzBTW, MArkS announced his departure on my bdayJan 26 22:12
schestowitzI'm not sure giving Ubuntu flak is productiveJan 26 22:12
schestowitzMaybe polite suggestionsJan 26 22:12
_Goblinagreed fully.Jan 26 22:13
schestowitzIt reminds me of LinspireJan 26 22:13
schestowitzThwn they sold out to MicrosoftJan 26 22:13
MinceRi'm not sure giving m$ support is productive for a gnu/linux distroJan 26 22:13
schestowitzPatent wiseJan 26 22:13
_GoblinI am all for proprietary moving to Ubuntu.Jan 26 22:13
schestowitzLinspire also had MSN toolbar thenJan 26 22:13
cubezzzblahJan 26 22:13
MinceRalso, i'm not sure giving the .net/mono patent traop support is productive for a gnu/linux distroJan 26 22:13
schestowitzAnd other Microsoft 'wares' and [cr]appsJan 26 22:13
_Goblinsince Windows and Mac have Photoshop (for eg) why can't Linux/Ubuntu?Jan 26 22:13
MinceRlooks like they're pretty surely headed in a direction that isn't worth going inJan 26 22:13
_GoblinIve come across many people whose soul reason for dual booting windows is because of PhotoshopJan 26 22:13
schestowitz_Goblin: it's not makos or win32Jan 26 22:13
schestowitzIt's GNU system,Jan 26 22:14
MinceRs/aop/ap/Jan 26 22:14
_Goblinyes but by its nature modification/diversity is encouraged.Jan 26 22:14
_GoblinI can't see any of the other distro's following suit so if theres a problem users can look elsewhere...Jan 26 22:14
MinceRthere are some non-monopolist search engines aroundJan 26 22:14
*sebsebseb (n=3seb@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovellJan 26 22:14
sebsebseb Jan 26 22:14
oiaohmThere are many closed source 3d animation programs for Linux distribution netrual.Jan 26 22:14
schestowitzsebsebseb: Jan 26 22:14
sebsebsebschestowitz:  Jan 26 22:14
MinceRsebsebseb: Jan 26 22:15
oiaohmYet adobe says it too complex to make photoshop for LinuxJan 26 22:15
sebsebsebMinceR:  Jan 26 22:15
schestowitzWe're talking about Bong in Ubuntu and non-Free s/wJan 26 22:15
MinceRfor adobe it's too complex to make a program that works properlyJan 26 22:15
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: exactly (re photoshop)Jan 26 22:15
sebsebsebjust joined, but Adobe are a for profit companyJan 26 22:15
schestowitzIn case you're in need of catchupJan 26 22:15
_Goblinof course and I think it would be hypocritical to call for freedom of choice for the end user without giving them the option of closed source too...Jan 26 22:15
sebsebsebthey will use the Desktop Linux does not have enough market share excuseJan 26 22:15
schestowitzMinceR: they make it hard to use tooJan 26 22:15
FurnaceBoyfor nowJan 26 22:15
MinceRbut i say let the fanboys have their photoslop on gnu/linux if that's what's holding them backJan 26 22:15
schestowitzJust many menus with effectsJan 26 22:15
sebsebsebplus I read something before about how they are probably going to have some sort of web based Photoshop soonishJan 26 22:15
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: they have had for a whileJan 26 22:16
oiaohmSo are 3d animination programs produces sebsebseb.    Jan 26 22:16
schestowitzPeople do courses for PS but not for GIMP, then they say GIMP is "hard"Jan 26 22:16
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: http://photoshop.comJan 26 22:16
_GoblinMincer: makes no difference to the rest of us if Photoshop has a native version.Jan 26 22:16
sebsebsebalso people can Wine Photoshop yeahJan 26 22:16
sebsebsebas for 3D animation well their's Blender open source yeah, and the movie industury will have their own internal programs that run on a Linux distroJan 26 22:16
FurnaceBoymore or less, but that doesn't really fly for production use.Jan 26 22:16
_Goblinexactly....the users who want it are already wine'ng it on Linux.Jan 26 22:16
oiaohmFurnaceBoy: blender is used by many production houses.  Along side other 3d tools that work on Linux workstationsJan 26 22:17
FurnaceBoyeventually we need ISVs supporting the platforms people run. When Linux has 30%, they will.Jan 26 22:17
schestowitzBlender uses to be proprietaryJan 26 22:17
_Goblinto offer a native version merely gives another "pro" for switching (if you are a Photoshop user)Jan 26 22:17
MinceRafaik wine can only run it up to cs2Jan 26 22:17
FurnaceBoyBy the time Adobe produced Photoshop for Windows, I doubt it had 20% of the graphics arts market.Jan 26 22:17
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: remind me what ISVs  meanJan 26 22:17
schestowitzSo here's a GPL-licensed piece that can't be called "just FOSS quality"Jan 26 22:17
FurnaceBoyMicrosoft must have basically talked Adobe into supporting Windows.Jan 26 22:17
FurnaceBoychicken and egg.Jan 26 22:17
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Random poll of 5 friends. We all use address bar, search page, search box, shortcuts completely differently! \o/ Choice!Jan 26 22:17
schestowitzXara is anotherJan 26 22:17
oiaohmReason FurnaceBoy Linux workstations can join to the Linux cluster they use for processing simpler.Jan 26 22:17
sebsebsebGimp and such needs to improve, a lot,  then screw PhotoshopJan 26 22:17
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: sure, but I am discussing Photoshop.Jan 26 22:18
sebsebsebplus Gimp will have it's single window option ready at the end of December, well that's the planJan 26 22:18
schestowitzMinceR: Photoship needs CS 101Jan 26 22:18
FurnaceBoyISV = Independent Software Vendor.Jan 26 22:18
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: I was thinking thatJan 26 22:18
_GoblinGimp Im sure will benefit in the same way OpenOffice did v MS Office....Jan 26 22:18
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: rightJan 26 22:18
oiaohmProblem here 3d guys are starting to build there own replacements to Photoshop embeded in there own tools.  FurnaceBoyJan 26 22:18
MinceRphotoshit needs to be killed with fire.Jan 26 22:18
MinceR:>Jan 26 22:18
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: like a small software house?Jan 26 22:18
schestowitzPhotosheepleJan 26 22:18
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: I am talking about Photoshop in 2d workflows.Jan 26 22:18
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: such as the huge graphics arts marketJan 26 22:18
schestowitzMeeeeeeeeeeeh! RGB. MeeeeeeeehJan 26 22:18
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: much bigger than 3d marketJan 26 22:18
oiaohm3d guys need 2d workflows FurnaceBoyJan 26 22:19
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: sure they do, but i'm not discussing that.Jan 26 22:19
_Goblinmaybe photoshop will "up its game" and offer better value for money for the end user, that could be a side effect of them approaching another platform.Jan 26 22:19
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: i am talking about graphic arts, Photoshop's largest and traditional market.Jan 26 22:19
sebsebsebMinceR: Photoshop is very much part of propritary software vender lock in, and it seems that loads of poeple that have it, dont' even have a legal copyJan 26 22:19
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: it's now subject to Activation, which probably cut into piracyJan 26 22:19
sebsebsebMinceR: so if they tackle Internet piracy properly well, less pirated photoshop's and more of these people will turn to open source tools?Jan 26 22:19
oiaohmWho do you think does the textures in 3d production  FurnaceBoyJan 26 22:19
schestowitzadobe forbids use of words like "photoshopped" bTWJan 26 22:19
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: I KNOWJan 26 22:19
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: but I AM NOT TALKING about 3D production!Jan 26 22:19
schestowitzDraconiac drug dealers is what they are with schoolsJan 26 22:19
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: I'm talking about GRAPHIC ARTS, Photoshop's largest, and traditional BASEJan 26 22:19
_GoblinMakes me wonder though if the rumblings about GIMP being removed were not infact for a Mono package but instead to make way for users to have the choice of Photoshop first....Jan 26 22:19
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: they didn't have activation with a code?Jan 26 22:19
oiaohmProblem for adobe if they don't port soon they will not have a market.  FurnaceBoyJan 26 22:20
schestowitzGIMP would be happy not to restrict people's languageJan 26 22:20
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: like WindowsJan 26 22:20
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: I know!Jan 26 22:20
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: eventually they will port to Linux. everyone will.Jan 26 22:20
oiaohmWhat will be the point FurnaceBoyJan 26 22:20
FurnaceBoy??!!Jan 26 22:20
FurnaceBoyforget it. really.Jan 26 22:20
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: only if it has enough market share,  or they sort of port by web based versions, but you said there already is oneJan 26 22:20
oiaohmThey will not be intergrate into like KOfficeJan 26 22:20
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: via WebJan 26 22:20
oiaohmThey will not be intergrate into the 3d workflows.Jan 26 22:20
schestowitzPhotoshop is going Web basedJan 26 22:20
schestowitzFirst for few functionsJan 26 22:20
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: yes, it's market share related , obviously.Jan 26 22:21
oiaohmSo where will they fit.Jan 26 22:21
schestowitzMabe Flash basedJan 26 22:21
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: check http://photoshop.comJan 26 22:21
sebsebsebanyway these propritary software companies could start making for Windows and Wine, it woudn't take much extraJan 26 22:21
schestowitzfor obvious reasonsJan 26 22:21
sebsebsebwrokJan 26 22:21
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: that's a shitty angle :)Jan 26 22:21
_GoblinI think there will always be people who refuse to use anything but the traditional proprietary packages, for those users Photoshop would be welcome and for the rest of us, well im sure we will make our own mind up if and when the time comes.Jan 26 22:21
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: all the games that went that way .. it's a bad experienceJan 26 22:21
sebsebsebnative is good sure, but  having loads of programs that many people want to work, working properly in Wine is also a good thingJan 26 22:21
schestowitz"<_Goblin> I think there will always be people ....."Jan 26 22:21
schestowitzNot a good statement, _GoblinJan 26 22:21
_Goblinbut it can't be disputed...Jan 26 22:21
oiaohmBasically photoshop will fit no where in the furture work flows because they were not where the workflows were being developed.Jan 26 22:21
schestowitzPeople said the same about women not voting and slavery in the extreme senseJan 26 22:21
sebsebseband just working in Wine,  no needing to configure Wine firstJan 26 22:22
cubezzzbahahahaJan 26 22:22
*schestowitz goes to the kitchen to configure wineJan 26 22:22
cubezzzno doze, no wineJan 26 22:22
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: that's not going to be good enough for most commercial users. but Adobe will eventually produce native versions for Linux.Jan 26 22:22
_Goblinwe can't say for definate, but based on computing to date, the popularity of Wine and the obvious business viability of Photoshop, it would suggest there will always be people (or at least for the forseeable future)Jan 26 22:22
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: the only disagreement is about WHENJan 26 22:22
schestowitzI can't make wineJan 26 22:22
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: right, WINE isn't a viable answerJan 26 22:22
_GoblinnoJan 26 22:22
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: I sent my wife out to buy someJan 26 22:22
_GoblinagreedJan 26 22:23
schestowitzroy@roy:~$ make wineJan 26 22:23
schestowitzmake: *** No rule to make target `wine'. Stop.Jan 26 22:23
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy:  only if  desktop Linux gains enough market share, and loads of people are still wanting Photoshop on itJan 26 22:23
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: yes I agreed above, of course it's market share related. but it is inevitable.Jan 26 22:23
cubezzzyou don't need photoshop, come onJan 26 22:23
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: Windows era is endingJan 26 22:23
cubezzzsomething better will be createdJan 26 22:23
schestowitzI can't ./configure, either :-)Jan 26 22:23
oiaohmProblem here FurnaceBoy at way things are going by the time Adobe thinks about porting photoshop no one will want it.Jan 26 22:23
sebsebsebwell there are some advantages of WindowsJan 26 22:23
FurnaceBoycubezzz: eventually yes. Photoshop is rather crappy, but it does make money.Jan 26 22:23
_Goblinthats why I think native is better, there are people trying to get Photoshop working now.  If they are dual booting only for Photoshop, then a native version can only be good for Linux, surely?Jan 26 22:23
sebsebsebthe ReactOS people know thatJan 26 22:23
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: that's possible yesJan 26 22:23
sebsebsebReactOS will be using Wine properly soonJan 26 22:23
FurnaceBoygotta workJan 26 22:24
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cubezzzInkscape is pretty nice Jan 26 22:24
schestowitzI never used itJan 26 22:24
schestowitzwallclimber uses itJan 26 22:24
schestowitzShe made some graphics with it for BNJan 26 22:24
sebsebseb_Goblin: sure, or a Photoshop that just works in Wine, and properlyJan 26 22:24
cubezzzI made a CD cover with it (and the GIMP)Jan 26 22:24
_Goblinand also let us not forget the benefit financially to Canonical who have produced arguably one of the most popular distro's.Jan 26 22:24
schestowitzyesJan 26 22:25
_Goblinmaking money with Linux...shouldn't it be encouraged?Jan 26 22:25
oiaohmBasically stack of things will kill photoshop.Jan 26 22:25
schestowitzubiquitousJan 26 22:25
schestowitzI'm careful with the word "popular"Jan 26 22:25
MinceRsebsebseb: or the sheeple will just pay upJan 26 22:25
cubezzznon programmers :)Jan 26 22:25
sebsebsebMinceR: what?Jan 26 22:25
oiaohmdigikam Kde photo manager.  Removes a lot of people need for photoshop.Jan 26 22:25
MinceRsebsebseb: but i doubt anyone can really "tackle" piracy at allJan 26 22:25
sebsebsebMinceR: not followingJan 26 22:25
sebsebseboh piracyJan 26 22:25
schestowitzGates: "taken on a  statistical bases ..." (deposition video, on "most respected s/w company)Jan 26 22:25
MinceR231642 < sebsebseb> MinceR: so if they tackle Internet piracy properly well, less pirated photoshop's and more of these people will turn to open source tools?Jan 26 22:25
cubezzzdoesn't matter one bitJan 26 22:26
sebsebsebMinceR: yes  turn to alternatives or just pay upJan 26 22:26
oiaohmNot really.Jan 26 22:26
sebsebseb,but Photoshop is so expensive,  that most home users wound't want to buy itJan 26 22:26
cubezzzpiracy is just an excuseJan 26 22:26
schestowitzsebsebseb: no, it's like drugsJan 26 22:26
schestowitzAdobe let's people share itJan 26 22:26
_Goblinwell I don't think we can argue about popular....if you were to "collect" 10 linux users, how many would be using Ubuntu?  Look at the Ubuntu newsgroups, user sites et al compared to other distro's.  Rightly or wrongly I'd put money on more people using Ubuntu than any other distro (in the home)Jan 26 22:26
schestowitzThen it extorts Jan 26 22:26
schestowitzWhen people get addictedJan 26 22:26
_Goblinhell, even I have it on 3 machines.Jan 26 22:26
oiaohmDoes Photoshop intergrate somthly into workflows or is it just a unrequired bump.Jan 26 22:26
schestowitzIt also uses these tricks in schools... we have leaked E-mails in BNJan 26 22:27
cubezzzdon't think Ubuntu vs. WhateverJan 26 22:27
oiaohmunrequired bumps always go way.Jan 26 22:27
schestowitzPeople buy Photosheep so that they can open their filesJan 26 22:27
sebsebseb_Goblin: there are some issues with Ubuntu, and there are some people that really don't seem to get Ubuntu, they think 9.10 was meant to compete properly against Windows 7, that was the never the caseJan 26 22:27
cubezzzthink FOSS vs ProprietaryJan 26 22:27
schestowitzAdobe is like Microsoft in that sense, sans the crimesJan 26 22:27
sebsebseb_Goblin: ,but yes it's the one that has most chance at gaining a  more proper market share at the momentJan 26 22:27
schestowitzsebsebseb: why not?Jan 26 22:27
cubezzzit's all just codeJan 26 22:27
oiaohmGimp and Digikam(rest of kde aps)  Can open photoshop files no problems.Jan 26 22:27
schestowitzThe issue is, some thing it's "Cheap Windows"Jan 26 22:27
schestowitzBut it's better than itJan 26 22:28
cubezzzanything someone invents can be re-inventedJan 26 22:28
schestowitzIt's different thoughJan 26 22:28
_Goblinsebsebseb: True and I think the "loud" voice of complaints was a testiment to how many people are using it....just like the Windows 7 issues...Jan 26 22:28
sebsebsebschestowitz: Ubuntu 9.10 is not good enough to compete properly against Windows 7, and gain loads and loads of the average computer consumersJan 26 22:28
schestowitzoiaohm: full fidelity? PSD is trickJan 26 22:28
sebsebsebschestowitz: it was never designed to compete properly against Windows 7 either, because of certain issues it has that aren't really it's fault, for example wireless and ATI graphic card issues and so onJan 26 22:28
schestowitz*trickyJan 26 22:28
schestowitzI tried other file types tooJan 26 22:28
_Goblinsebsebseb: Ive found the reverse I have a Windows 7 machine sitting next to 9.10 on 4 year old wouldnt think it.Jan 26 22:28
oiaohmOnly lockin adobe has the the pantone support.Jan 26 22:29
schestowitzsebsebseb:  computer consumers?Jan 26 22:29
oiaohmBut that can exist as a closed source plugin.Jan 26 22:29
sebsebseb_Goblin: what are you trying to say?Jan 26 22:29
schestowitzComputers are edible?Jan 26 22:29
sebsebsebschestowitz: yeah those that want everything on their computer to just work,  and that's that, and don't really want to learn computerJan 26 22:29
schestowitzThat's the pointJan 26 22:29
schestowitzPeople should use software that gives them their computerJan 26 22:29
sebsebsebschestowitz: and those same people a lot of them will use social  networking sites such as Facebook and Twitter, so that's good that Ubuntu 10.04 will have something to target themJan 26 22:30
oiaohmschestowitz: PSD are normal adobe standards.   Fully nicely documented.Jan 26 22:30
_Goblinsebsebseb: the windows 7 rig I am borrowing is current spec's...the 9.10 machine is 4 years old.  To look at performance/eyecandy et al the Ubuntu machine looks the better system....Jan 26 22:30
schestowitzWith Windows, they become tenants inside their own propertyJan 26 22:30
cubezzzI was asked to remove XP from a system the other day, they wanted Fedora 12Jan 26 22:30
schestowitz"Microsoft....... please, Microsoft, let me boot into my own computer.... PLEASE!"Jan 26 22:30
cubezzzfrankly it ran better on F12Jan 26 22:30
sebsebseb_Goblin: well yes it depends on the hardware how good Ubuntu will be on it or notJan 26 22:30
_Goblinsebsebseb: I was talking here earlier about it and in every single function I require, Ubuntu is outperforming 7.Jan 26 22:31
sebsebseb_Goblin: and then it depends on the user,  and so on, which OS is better for them,   problem is a lot think it's Windows, but really with some help from someone with know how, most would get on fine with Ubuntu, most people that use computersJan 26 22:31
oiaohmschestowitz: ie photoshops lock is not fileformat.  Its features and interface.Jan 26 22:31
schestowitzoiaohm: Adobe is not a standaards bodyJan 26 22:31
schestowitzI have my standards tooJan 26 22:31
schestowitzIt doesn't make them openJan 26 22:31
schestowitzAnd ISO too is a farceJan 26 22:31
schestowitzSo its OK to PDF I don't care for..Jan 26 22:31
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] #Ubuntu do seem to be stepping further and further away from the #Linux ideals with every commercial move, which is sad.Jan 26 22:31
oiaohmschestowitz:  Adobe for anything that could be stored and need to be accessed long term.  Adobe does open document on all there intrenals.Jan 26 22:32
schestowitz[22:31] <_Goblin> sebsebseb: I was talking here earlier about it and in every single function I require, Ubuntu is outperforming 7.Jan 26 22:32
schestowitzBut Microsoft has better adsJan 26 22:32
schestowitzSo Microsoft winsJan 26 22:32
schestowitzAnd AppleJan 26 22:32
schestowitzIf perception countsJan 26 22:32
oiaohmschestowitz: Not like MS format docs that are half complete either.   Adobes are fully complete.Jan 26 22:32
schestowitz"Look..... we have cool people and photography of hardware from Foxconn!"Jan 26 22:32
_Goblinsee I would disagree.....are you forced down a proprietary route with Ubuntu? No...Do like Mono? Remove it...Don't want Gnome? Go Xfce...I don't see where these "moving away from Linux" comments are coming from.Jan 26 22:32
oiaohmschestowitz: and if you do find anything missed they will revised the information on the file format.  schestowitzJan 26 22:33
schestowitzoiaohm: in okular I can't get all the same functionalityJan 26 22:33
schestowitzIt's rat raceJan 26 22:33
schestowitzCOmments, highlights, other features of Reader(C)Jan 26 22:33
sebsebsebThistleWeb: well they are starting to do things that are good for the average computer consumer,  but things that a lot of more experienced users aren't going to be that keen on.Jan 26 22:33
_Goblinschestowitz: MS may have expensive ads, but not better, the best "advert" is honest held personal belief and Ubuntu gets that in droves.Jan 26 22:34
schestowitzsebsebseb: changing Linux for users (non convrted) rather than changing people for LinuxJan 26 22:34
oiaohmschestowitz: releasing the standards does not mean everyone will master feature match.  schestowitzJan 26 22:34
sebsebseb_Goblin: well you get propritary software with Ubuntu a bit of it, useuallyJan 26 22:34
sebsebsebschestowitz: uh?Jan 26 22:34
schestowitz_Goblin:they have loadsJan 26 22:35
schestowitzThey play the "mind share" games as they call itJan 26 22:35
schestowitzPR of repetitionJan 26 22:35
sebsebseb_Goblin: you can remove after woulds, but most are going to keep it, and a lot will start using the propritary software, such as Ubuntu One.  I read that's propritary softwareJan 26 22:35
schestowitz"it was my idea" and other memesJan 26 22:35
schestowitzIf "my idea" was to be a criminal company, then no thanksJan 26 22:35
schestowitzbrbJan 26 22:35
_Goblinsebsebseb: But I think (as I said in an article) that we have to be realistic, Canonical requires money to pay its staff and if services like Ubuntu One are going to keep it "alive" then more power to them.  If Ubuntu could pay its staff on praise and good will by users I am sure it would (and theres plenty of that) but it can't and I see nothing wrong with what I regard as a service being offered cross platform for the "good" oJan 26 22:37
sebsebseb_Goblin: well yeah I am not exactly against Ubuntu One, I just don't want to use it personalley, and think I could have something better in the default install insteadJan 26 22:38
sebsebseb_Goblin: I mean they can only fit so much into a default install in to the ISO, and most of the screensavers that were rather nice and there before, have been removed starting with 9.10 :(Jan 26 22:38
sebsebsebrather have that, then Ubuntu OneJan 26 22:38
_Goblinsebsebseb: I was one of the early testers whilst I have no real use of the service, I do hope they make a go of it...Jan 26 22:38
sebsebseb_Goblin: this memenu thing that is coming Jan 26 22:39
sebsebsebTwitter and Facebook featuresJan 26 22:39
sebsebseband suchJan 26 22:39
sebsebsebI won't really have any proper reason to use that.  also something about a music store, that's not for meJan 26 22:39
sebsebseb_Goblin: anyway I want to do Lucid properly on this computer for a week or two or something,  and then I'll do Debian Testing for a bit I thinkJan 26 22:40
sebsebseb_Goblin: and I am doing a bit of virtual machine testing, but  I might put the actasul RC on the hard disk,  since download day is packedJan 26 22:40
_Goblinsebsebseb: but then you have to remember that music store could just as easily be offered by any company on the net, the fact that Canonical may do it is just another way users can, if they wish purchase music and support Canonical too.Jan 26 22:40
sebsebsebwhen the final comes outJan 26 22:40
sebsebsebthen again, I could just wait 7 hours or whatever for the ISO to downloadJan 26 22:41
_Goblinsebsebseb: The only concern I would have with the proprietary issue would be what DRM technology they would employ and if it had a detrimental effect on performance/operation.Jan 26 22:41
sebsebsebI want to test,  Ext3 and Ext4  with a proper installJan 26 22:41
sebsebseblike I did for KarmicJan 26 22:41
sebsebsebdo  Ext3 for boot up and shut down and that's about it, then run with Ext4 for a  while,  and well yeah Debian Testing I think after that, whilst waiting for the final of the next Mandriva  or somethingJan 26 22:41
sebsebsebanyway 10.04 might be the last time I psyically install  Ubuntu on to this computerJan 26 22:42
_GoblinI have gone back to Fedora on one of my rigs...very pleased I am to.Jan 26 22:42
sebsebsebor maybe in the future i'll want to test btfs  on here with Ubuntu or something, I mean when that's outJan 26 22:42
sebsebsebwell virtual machines and live cd's are good sure, but  for a more proper experience need to install onto a hard diskJan 26 22:43
_GoblinI will be going with 10.04 on some of my rigs, mainly because a/Ive never had issue with any Ubuntu upgrade and b/ its an LTSJan 26 22:43
_Goblin8.04LTS was rock solid.Jan 26 22:43
_Goblinfor me.Jan 26 22:44
sebsebsebit seems 10.04 won't offer any proper advantage,  I mean stuff that isn't in other distros, that is really worth itJan 26 22:44
_Goblinmind you if they snip even more off the bootup and shutdown times.....Jan 26 22:44
_Goblin9.10 really does fly.Jan 26 22:44
sebsebsebwell not for my useage,  but I got a woman who is still on 8.10 since I helped her quite a lot with Ubuntu etcJan 26 22:44
sebsebseb9.04 and 9.10 would have offered her  no proper advantage,  but 10.04  it seems will, since she likes FacebookJan 26 22:45
_GoblinIm looking to replace Wolvix on my main rig since it hasn't been updated for long while....shame it was red hot...Jan 26 22:45
sebsebsebplus 8.10 will run out of support when 10.04 comes out, or around thenJan 26 22:45
sebsebsebshe was on 8.04 on old lap top, then bought a pre installed Ubuntu Dell that came with 8.10Jan 26 22:46
sebsebseblap topJan 26 22:46
_GoblinI may well be considering AROS on my main rig....its come along way...Jan 26 22:46
sebsebsebAROS????Jan 26 22:47
sebsebsebsomething based on Amiga?Jan 26 22:47
_Goblin 26 22:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: AROS Research Operating System .::. Size~: 48.77 KBJan 26 22:47
sebsebsebohJan 26 22:47
_Goblinonly because I would like to be "forced" to get involved.....Jan 26 22:48
sebsebsebthen I got a guy who,  isn't  fully happy with Ubuntu for some silly reasons.  and he might end up on some other distro in the end, he is on 9.04 for nowJan 26 22:48
_Goblinif its on my main rig, I have to look more to my own solutions.Jan 26 22:48
_GoblinIm not sure what is happening at the moment but my readerbase is increasing massively since Dec 09...incomming links from Tuxmachines, Lxer, BN and others are really knocking up my readerbase...Im on a 1000 UIP a day average now.Jan 26 22:51
_Goblinand the most popular searches that find my blog are: "Goblin Microsoft" , "Openbytes" , "Ballmer", "Linux" & "Free software"Jan 26 22:52
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] I do wonder about Ubuntu's reputation on this, Google = Search to most peeps, Anyone Else = 2nd Class SearchJan 26 22:52
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MinceR"2nd class search" is the least of the issues with itJan 26 22:57
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] I also wonder if this is a desperation move by Canonical, that their play on server paid support is not going as well as hoped cash is reqdJan 26 22:57
ThistleWebyahoo may be no2, but they're well behind googleJan 26 22:58
ThistleWebfor good or ill, google = search to a LOT of peepsJan 26 22:59
ThistleWeba browser that loads up anything but google as the default search engine is making a statementJan 26 22:59
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ThistleWebeven linux mint have their custom google, which I hear is not as good as the regular google, but it's still googleJan 26 23:00
ThistleWebit's a little sign of ubuntu chanting "we're number 2"Jan 26 23:00
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MinceRThistleWeb: yahoo's search is just bingo in disguiseJan 26 23:01
ThistleWebsomeone on identica did have a point, it's like ubuntu is more being led by canonical with less and less consulting of the ubuntu communityJan 26 23:01
*Myfraudsoft ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 26 23:01
ThistleWebexactlyJan 26 23:01
ThistleWebit's MS moneyJan 26 23:02
MinceRafter adding mono apps as default and the rumors/news of dropping gimp in favor of more mono crap, this is a worrying developmentJan 26 23:02
ThistleWebjono - peeps who care can switch easy, peeps who dont can help pay for devsJan 26 23:02
MinceRcanonical is effectively handing over data about unsuspecting users to m$Jan 26 23:02
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] popeyJan 26 23:02
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @popey that's one way of looking at itJan 26 23:02
jonoThistleWeb, indeed :)Jan 26 23:03
jonoMinceR, read the announcement, there is no personal data sharedJan 26 23:03
jonoand nothing to MSJan 26 23:03
jonothe only figure generated for the partner (Canonical) is the total amountJan 26 23:03
ThistleWebyahoo search is being powered by bingJan 26 23:03
jono(rev)Jan 26 23:03
MinceRjono: if someone performs a search via yahoo, the search string is necessarily sent to m$Jan 26 23:03
ThistleWebwhen you search on yahoo, you use bingJan 26 23:03
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Puppy Arcade 6 Released! - Shortly to get the Openbytes review! #linux #foss #emulationJan 26 23:03
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Puppy Arcade 6 .::. Size~: 19.34 KBJan 26 23:03
MinceRjono: otherwise it can't functionJan 26 23:04
ThistleWeba decision engine, designed to give better results to MS partnersJan 26 23:04
MinceRsearch strings accumulated about a user can tell a lot about himJan 26 23:04
jonoMinceR, unlikelyJan 26 23:04
schestowitzThe lins******* trolls are trolling identicaJan 26 23:05
schestowitz 26 23:05
schestowitz 26 23:05
schestowitz...Jan 26 23:05
ThistleWebjono: with all due respect, we understand it's your job to sell this decision, whether or not you agree with itJan 26 23:05
jonoThistleWeb, wrongJan 26 23:05
jonoI am not here to sell itJan 26 23:05
jonoI am here to build a communityJan 26 23:05
jonoI have spoken out about Canonical decision in the pastJan 26 23:05
ThistleWebperhaps "sell" was the wrong wordJan 26 23:06
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Ted Smith (teddks) 's status on Tuesday, 26-Jan-10 22:47:49 UTC - .::. Size~: 8.26 KBJan 26 23:06
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Ted Smith (teddks) 's status on Tuesday, 26-Jan-10 22:50:43 UTC - .::. Size~: 8.23 KBJan 26 23:06
jonomy point is: you don't like Yahoo! one click and it is changedJan 26 23:06
jonojob doneJan 26 23:06
ThistleWebindeed, but those who dont use bing, with a yahoo front end to help fund linuxJan 26 23:06
MinceRexcept that it will be changed for the user if he had google setJan 26 23:07
schestowitzIt'll be kind of funny when Ubuntu users search in Firefox to find just few and negative resultsJan 26 23:07
schestowitzMicrosoft is doctoring its resultsJan 26 23:07
schestowitzWhich IMHO should have them slapped by the lawJan 26 23:07
schestowitzThey pretend it's unbiasedJan 26 23:07
ThistleWebwe understand canonical needs money like any other corpJan 26 23:07
schestowitzThey should print at the bottom of pages that recommendations are also made based on their agendaJan 26 23:07
schestowitzLike adverts must be flagged as suchJan 26 23:08
*MinceR wonders how red hat could possibly survive without pushing mono or bingoJan 26 23:08
ThistleWebbut this does mean MS money, even if it's passed through yahoo's hands to give the appearance of distanceJan 26 23:08
MinceRmust be magicJan 26 23:08
schestowitzI remember how angry Helios (Ken) was when his friends had him use Linspire, which redirected to MicrosoftJan 26 23:09
schestowitzThat was after their dealJan 26 23:09
schestowitzAnyway, can't Ubuntu make a deal with Google?Jan 26 23:10
schestowitzAnd I can't see how this works with MozillaJan 26 23:10
schestowitzI thought Mozilla could require packaging as-is (for Mozilla's own revenue)Jan 26 23:10
schestowitzUnless it's forkedJan 26 23:10
schestowitzoiaohm said something about, but IANALJan 26 23:10
MinceRif the quality of the search engine doesn't matter (as it obviously doesn't matter, if they were willing to choose bingo), they might as well consider one of the search services owned by companies that happen to not be assholesJan 26 23:11
schestowitz 26 23:11
schestowitz ACTA Guide, Part Two: The Documents (Official and Leaked)Jan 26 23:12
schestowitzNot parsable?Jan 26 23:12
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schestowitzOK, I'd better prepare to post some daily linksJan 26 23:12
_Goblin:)Jan 26 23:13
schestowitzNice: 26 23:13
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Make your own mossarium! Boing Boing .::. Size~: 68.03 KBJan 26 23:13
ThistleWebI wonder how many Canonical decisions (bypassing the community) it'll take to consign Ubuntu to the distro that paved the way for mainstream linux adoption and lost the prize to other distrosJan 26 23:13
MinceRi wonder how much will canonical end up screwing the communityJan 26 23:14
ThistleWebit may end up as a stepping stone distro, making the path for othersJan 26 23:14
ThistleWeblosing it's community along the wayJan 26 23:15
schestowitzzoobab: 26 23:16
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Begian Senator proposes Hadopi-like law Boing Boing .::. Size~: 43.35 KBJan 26 23:16
_GoblinI always considered it that for many users confidence in Linux increases so does the desire for more exotic distro's.Jan 26 23:16
ThistleWebI know Shuttleworth hadn't planned on funding it as long, but he extended it, assuming it was just on the cusp of being self sufficient and needed a lil more help over the humpJan 26 23:16
schestowitz_Goblin: Linux was always in part about individualismJan 26 23:16
schestowitzThat's why we keep having new distrosJan 26 23:16
ThistleWebI wonder if this is just a sign that theyre further from that than they'd like to be, and the deadline is looming for Mark pulling back financiallyJan 26 23:17
ThistleWebpaid support contracts on servers tend to be RH and Novell terretoryJan 26 23:17
schestowitzzoobab: the Sarko threat spreads like communism :-) 3-strike for beJan 26 23:17
ThistleWebmaybe the mp3 only music service ain't helpingJan 26 23:18
_Goblincould be, but I think it has to be considered that Ubuntu has a brandname now and chances are if someone new to Linux asks about it, Ubuntu is usually brought up.  I think thats a good sign as well as a responsibility to Canonical, that whatever decisions they make they are open and willing to listen to their community.Jan 26 23:18
cubezzzeven distros have other distros :)Jan 26 23:18
ThistleWebI dunno, but this seems to be just the latest in a line of questionable moves by Ubuntu, that I'm starting to have second thoughtsJan 26 23:19
schestowitzOuch.Jan 26 23:19
schestowitz 26 23:19
MinceRso am iJan 26 23:19
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Google Now Showing Suggestions for "Islam Is" | WebProNews .::. Size~: 34.46 KBJan 26 23:19
schestowitzcubezzz: except SUSEJan 26 23:19
ThistleWebit may be that they're financially fragile that they can't really afford to say no to MS moneyJan 26 23:20
schestowitzCaixa Magica even dumped OpenSUSE for Mandriva 2 years agoJan 26 23:20
ThistleWebwell, most Muslims disagree about that too, so you can't blame Google lolJan 26 23:20
schestowitzSLE* has no clones, eitherJan 26 23:20
_Goblinand if that was the case wouldn't MS Money and Canonical continuing be better than no Canonical?Jan 26 23:20
schestowitzThistleWeb: the story is that GOogle uses to censor itJan 26 23:20
schestowitzThen came public pressureJan 26 23:20
_GoblinI certainly think the Linux world would be poorer without Canonical.Jan 26 23:20
ThistleWebthey all have different ideas about what Islam is, some say it's peaceful, others say it's about killing infidels etcJan 26 23:21
cubezzzsure Jan 26 23:21
cubezzzbut it's not for meJan 26 23:21
ThistleWebubuntu has been a great juggernaught for linuxJan 26 23:21
MinceRmoney is one thing, the influence bought with it is another.Jan 26 23:21
ThistleWebI just wonder how many peeps are falling over the sides as they plough on regardlessJan 26 23:22
cubezzzjuggernautJan 26 23:22
_Goblinand can we honestly say that Linux over the last year would have picked up as much pace if it wasn't for them?Jan 26 23:22
schestowitz 26 23:22
cubezzzwell, hopefully it is unstoppable :)Jan 26 23:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Price, Dates Of First Twitter Conference Announced | WebProNews .::. Size~: 31.38 KBJan 26 23:22
MinceRdo you really think m$ would give money if they didn't honestly think that it will help _them_ more than the FLOSS community?Jan 26 23:22
_GoblinI better stop since Im sounding like a Canonical shill....Jan 26 23:22
schestowitz_Goblin: yes, it wouldJan 26 23:22
_GoblinMinceR: Agreed completely, although we don't know how desperate for cash Canonical is.Jan 26 23:23
schestowitzMinceR: maybe foreseeing backlashJan 26 23:23
ThistleWebI suspect they're closer than they'd let on to serious issuesJan 26 23:23
ThistleWebcash wiseJan 26 23:23
schestowitzWhich is why it's better not to make infightingJan 26 23:23
schestowitzUbuntu does not play with patentsJan 26 23:23
schestowitzThis one is differentJan 26 23:23
MinceRpatents are not the sole possible method of attackJan 26 23:24
ThistleWebthey had to cut back on free shipit cdsJan 26 23:24
schestowitzMinceR: yes, Tridge says so too.....Jan 26 23:24
schestowitzHe said this in LCA 2010 last weekJan 26 23:25
schestowitzFriday or ThursJan 26 23:25
cubezzzyou know what's weird? There really was an MCPJan 26 23:25
cubezzznot just fictional :)Jan 26 23:25
schestowitzPearly is attacking GoogleJan 26 23:25
schestowitzThis guy is disgustingJan 26 23:25
schestowitzPEarly gates is doing anti-GOogle tourJan 26 23:25
schestowitzIn all sorts of publicationsJan 26 23:25
cubezzzPearly Gates makes him sound too goodJan 26 23:26
MinceReven though he's no better than googleJan 26 23:26
cubezzz"Gates of Hell" would be more appropriate :)Jan 26 23:26
schestowitzUbuntu One cloud storage service coming to Windows. 26 23:26
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Ubuntu One cloud storage service coming to Windows. | GHABUNTU .::. Size~: 90.98 KBJan 26 23:26
MinceRor "gate$"Jan 26 23:27
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] any business decision comes down to numbers, do you gain more than you lose? Canonical know they're gonna lose peeps over thisJan 26 23:27
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] everything else is just damage limitation, letting people vent, keeping the decisions on a switch until tomorrow, when it's hopefully forgotJan 26 23:28
schestowitz " @kristianpaul thats not #sourceforge sucking thats the US govt sucking !gnu  !fsf  !fsfla "Jan 26 23:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Justin O'Brien (threethirty) 's status on Tuesday, 26-Jan-10 00:43:23 UTC - .::. Size~: 8.64 KBJan 26 23:32
schestowitzThat's just what I told glynmoody last week when he first found outJan 26 23:32
schestowitzIf !withUs(nation), then block(nation)Jan 26 23:33
schestowitzSome more regime changes are a footJan 26 23:33
schestowitzNext one is IranJan 26 23:33
schestowitziRanJan 26 23:33
schestowitzThey already did iRackJan 26 23:33
schestowitz /a foot/afoot/Jan 26 23:33
MinceRthere's no such thing as a "nation"Jan 26 23:33
schestowitz 26 23:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Brown admits mistake in not planning for Iraq invasions fallout |  Raw Story .::. Size~: 26.74 KBJan 26 23:34
schestowitz 26 23:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: gulfnews : Iraq's crippled infrastructure fails to help struggling war amputees .::. Size~: 98.25 KBJan 26 23:34
MinceRit's just a fiction some people make up to turn an arbitrary group of people against other arbitrary groups of peopleJan 26 23:34
schestowitzKeeps them distractedJan 26 23:34
MinceRthere's no actual genetic or cultural background behind itJan 26 23:34
schestowitzThey start paying attention not to the people who screw them the mostJan 26 23:34
schestowitzNot many people speak about the "bailout" (bankster bonusfest) anymoreJan 26 23:35
MinceRnationalism is a mental disorderJan 26 23:35
schestowitzMinceR: watch this 26 23:35
schestowitzYou'll like the radio host thereJan 26 23:35
schestowitz "#sourceforge sucks, and restric software freedom !gnu !fsf !fsfla"Jan 26 23:36
phIRCe-BNcTitle: cristian paul peñaranda rojas (kristianpaul) 's status on Tuesday, 26-Jan-10 00:22:34 UTC - .::. Size~: 9.57 KBJan 26 23:36
schestowitzHehe.Jan 26 23:36
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Blog .::. Size~: 73.4 KBJan 26 23:36
schestowitzCensors sympathisersJan 26 23:36
schestowitz 26 23:36
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Word-map of net-censorship in China Boing Boing .::. Size~: 45.98 KBJan 26 23:36
schestowitz 26 23:36
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Intro to TOR: how you can be an anti-censorship activist in your sleep Boing Boing .::. Size~: 89.33 KBJan 26 23:36
MinceRschestowitz: indeedJan 26 23:37
oiaohmYou keep on hearing the idea that TOR is anti-censorshipJan 26 23:38
oiaohmYet a lot of internet attacks and so on also route threw TORJan 26 23:38
oiaohmAnd in a area that is heavy censored they can just make the usage of TOR illegal so not matter what you were looking up with it you are toast.Jan 26 23:39
schestowitzoiaohm: it's a tradeoffJan 26 23:39
schestowitzPeople searching for "democracy" is also an attackJan 26 23:40
oiaohmNot a viable tradeoff.Jan 26 23:40
schestowitzIt's an attack against the government (in China)Jan 26 23:40
MinceRsure, the people holding power are scared shitless of freedom of speech and therefore of anonymityJan 26 23:40
schestowitzFlow of thought and sharing of information w/o hindrance is neededJan 26 23:40
MinceRTor, when operated correctly, can provide anonymityJan 26 23:40
MinceRso they try hard to come up with something to demonize TorJan 26 23:40
schestowitzRisk of terror~1 is far lower than cancer and car accidentsJan 26 23:40
schestowitzTo live like idiots IMHO leads to a society in ILLUSION of securityJan 26 23:40
schestowitzKids can stil board the plane with a bombJan 26 23:41
oiaohmIf you have enough monitoring points Tor does not provide anonymity.Jan 26 23:41
schestowitzANd people can communiate offline in a restaurantJan 26 23:41
schestowitzSo why the F****** do people need to read MY mail?Jan 26 23:41
oiaohmTor cannot defeat one thing.  The one thing no human can defeat.   Time MinceRJan 26 23:41
schestowitzWhile th terror~1 don't even use E-mailJan 26 23:41
zoobabMonfils was the rapporteur in Belgian parl on EUCDJan 26 23:41
MinceRoiaohm: what do you mean?Jan 26 23:41
zoobabI invited him to a conference on the EUCDJan 26 23:41
zoobabhe never cameJan 26 23:42
MinceRoiaohm: if you have enough routers, a given number of monitoring points will be insufficientJan 26 23:42
zoobabcopyright lobby is behindJan 26 23:42
schestowitzzoobab: hmmm :-(Jan 26 23:42
oiaohmNo matter the number of routers.Jan 26 23:42
oiaohmYou cannot trick time MinceRJan 26 23:42
zoobab 26 23:42
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Begian Senator proposes Hadopi-like law Boing Boing .::. Size~: 43.35 KBJan 26 23:42
oiaohmYou do requests with particular time spacings MinceRJan 26 23:42
zoobab 26 23:42
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Téléchargement et vie privée : Les Verts proposent la licence globale pour le téléchargement < ECOLO .::. Size~: 16.79 KBJan 26 23:42
MinceRbut it's true that whenever your application is not really dependent on quick answers, a slower anonymizing network would be betterJan 26 23:42
zoobabI know the Green guyJan 26 23:43
MinceRsuch as some network for email i've heard ofJan 26 23:43
oiaohmThat time singature remains even after going threw many rounters.  MinceRJan 26 23:43
MinceRcan't remember the nameJan 26 23:43
schestowitzzoobab: .be has Green Party too?Jan 26 23:43
MinceRoiaohm: it depends on the protocol and given enough waypoints it will be distortedJan 26 23:43
MinceRoiaohm: given enough traffic it won't be possible to extractJan 26 23:43
oiaohmMore packets sent more the distort will disappear  MinceRJan 26 23:44
schestowitz*LOL* 26 23:44
oiaohmTime brings it undone MinceRJan 26 23:44
schestowitzMicrosoft gadgets go in the amnesty bin soonJan 26 23:44
MinceRit could be improved, but imo it's a pretty good base to start withJan 26 23:44
oiaohmLike if you send just one packet to the server chance of locating you is low.Jan 26 23:44
oiaohmProblem is most requests are not just 1 packet or just 1 request MinceRJan 26 23:45
oiaohmAnd you cannot change the out going end or a lot of web servers and the like will end your session.Jan 26 23:45
MinceRi can put a series of requests in a single packet, thoughJan 26 23:46
oiaohmBasically if someone owns the web server you are talking to and the isp you are going out of the tor protection can be rendered completely useless.Jan 26 23:46
MinceRthat's a very big 'if'Jan 26 23:47
oiaohmTor is annoymous with limitations.Jan 26 23:47
MinceRalso, i can combine it with other services, if i'm really paranoidJan 26 23:47
oiaohmProblem is even posting messages on forums that give monitor time stamp.Jan 26 23:47
oiaohmIe they don't have the server.Jan 26 23:47
oiaohmThose time stamps over time can locate the person posting.Jan 26 23:48
oiaohmHaving server means less posts are required due to more correct time data.Jan 26 23:48
oiaohmBasically time how do you defeat it MinceRJan 26 23:49
oiaohmIts the series of requests that is brings tor undone.Jan 26 23:50
oiaohmReally Tor is not good enough to protect people from being hunted down.   But good enough to make attackers hard to stop.Jan 26 23:51
MinceRsure, if you assume that both the ISP and the web server was already ownedJan 26 23:52
MinceRas if that was true in all casesJan 26 23:52
oiaohmNoJan 26 23:52
oiaohmsecound case web server is not owned.Jan 26 23:52
oiaohmPost to the second correctness.Jan 26 23:52
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Get yourself over to Slay Radio chip music, demo scene and a whole lot more! Ive been a listener for a long time! http://www.slayradio.orgJan 26 23:52
phIRCe-BNcTitle: :: SLAY Radio - News :: .::. Size~: 75.4 KBJan 26 23:52
MinceRwhat if i'm not using a forum or there's no second in the timestamp?Jan 26 23:53
oiaohmHow many message boards do you see that display time of post to the second MinceRJan 26 23:53
MinceRmanyJan 26 23:53
MinceRbut i rarely postJan 26 23:53
oiaohmEven this irc provides to a second.Jan 26 23:53
oiaohmLots of things do.Jan 26 23:53
oiaohmBasically tor to anything that does and the invistablity can be cracked.Jan 26 23:54
oiaohmIf you have the ISP.Jan 26 23:54
MinceRif.Jan 26 23:54
oiaohmIe china.Jan 26 23:54
MinceRwhat if i use a VPN service?Jan 26 23:54
MinceRfor example, IPREDator?Jan 26 23:54
oiaohmtime is also used to see threw VPN's.Jan 26 23:54
oiaohmThis form of time attack dates from world war 2 against radio networks MinceRJan 26 23:55
oiaohmUsing encryption that could not be cracked.Jan 26 23:55
oiaohmAt the time.Jan 26 23:55
MinceRi could defeat time-based attacks if i used MixminionJan 26 23:55
oiaohmNot completely.Jan 26 23:56
oiaohmThat is the problem with time.Jan 26 23:56
zoobaboiaohm: the traffic can stay within the TOR network, no need to go out to the internetJan 26 23:56
MinceRright, maybe hidden services can also helpJan 26 23:57
zoobabsureJan 26 23:57
zoobabI am working on a piece of code to stack multiple onion VPNsJan 26 23:57
zoobabin order to improve speedJan 26 23:57
zoobab 26 23:57
oiaohmIf attacker can get inforamtion out the hidden service providing time data they don't need to know where the hidden service is.Jan 26 23:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle: HACKDOPI .::. Size~: 14.78 KBJan 26 23:57
oiaohmThat is the problem with time.Jan 26 23:58
MinceRnice.Jan 26 23:58
zoobabtime data is hard to get because you need to control one nodeJan 26 23:58
*Balrog ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 26 23:58
zoobabthe last one at leastJan 26 23:58
oiaohmNot a node.Jan 26 23:58
oiaohmcontrolling the ISP is enough.Jan 26 23:58
MinceRtrying to control a node is pretty much futileJan 26 23:59
zoobabno, there is encryptionJan 26 23:59
MinceRthere are too many nodes and they're chosen randomlyJan 26 23:59
oiaohmAs long as you can get data to comare.Jan 26 23:59
oiaohmI am not breaking the encryption.Jan 26 23:59
zoobabso what do you do with the data?Jan 26 23:59
oiaohmWith time data you don't give a rates.Jan 26 23:59
MinceRhe finds out what server i'm talking toJan 26 23:59
oiaohmTime data is to trace path.Jan 26 23:59

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