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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: January 31st, 2010

_Goblin...Jan 31 00:24
rnboops, sorryJan 31 00:24
rnbhi everyone..Jan 31 00:24
_GoblinhiJan 31 00:24
rnbi've had all kinds of crazy shit happening at my buildingJan 31 00:25
rnbbottom line: if your landlord goes bankrupt... you are screwedJan 31 00:25
rnbmy $5500 security deposit has been stolen, i'm never getting it backJan 31 00:25
_Goblinsorry to hear thatJan 31 00:25
rnband i probably have to pay double-rent on januaryJan 31 00:25
rnbso, within the last 3 days, i've lost around $10kJan 31 00:26
rnbwell, not "lost" Jan 31 00:26
rnbi've had $10k stolen from me by a shady landlordJan 31 00:26
_Goblinoh dear...Jan 31 00:27
oiaohmThe double rent bit should be avoidable rnbJan 31 00:28
oiaohmDo you have a recept for paying the rent rnbJan 31 00:28
oiaohmIf you can find that you are set.Jan 31 00:29
rnbit's not avoidable, unfortunatelyJan 31 00:30
oiaohmThe deposit bit is why in Australia it has to go into an trustJan 31 00:30
oiaohmWhere are you rnbJan 31 00:30
rnbi mean, i could sue the guy but he is in bankruptcyJan 31 00:30
rnbso, it would be a complete waste of moneyJan 31 00:30
oiaohmSome countries there are like department of housing/tax office that will go after him.Jan 31 00:31
oiaohmAt no cost to you to get deposit back.  Ok maybe not quicky.Jan 31 00:31
rnbi'm in san franciscoJan 31 00:31
oiaohmBuggerJan 31 00:31
rnbwhich has the most liberal tenant laws in the USJan 31 00:32
rnbi mean, in favor of the tenantJan 31 00:32
rnbbut ... it just doesnt matterJan 31 00:32
oiaohmYou don't have a department over there to making sure the laws are followed.Jan 31 00:32
oiaohmYour laws are good but enforcement is a bitch.Jan 31 00:32
rnbthere are things like thatJan 31 00:33
rnbbut the law -is- being followedJan 31 00:33
rnbit's just that, in this case, the law is against meJan 31 00:33
oiaohmLike you are legally entiled to the depoist but the ammount of work to get it would be more than the depoist there.Jan 31 00:34
oiaohmWhere here australia the cost of getting the depoist to you would be nothing.Jan 31 00:34
oiaohmThe person who has to pay those costs is the person who lost it.Jan 31 00:34
oiaohmJust because we have a department who job is to enforce it.Jan 31 00:35
oiaohmPeople aways say the law is against.  Them.  More often than not it not the law but the legal process to follow the law.Jan 31 00:36
*FurnaceBoy doesn't get receipts for rent eitherJan 31 00:39
FurnaceBoyon the other hand, rent is not accepted in cash. so I could probably prove it was banked by the landlordJan 31 00:40
FurnaceBoyrnb: that sucks.Jan 31 00:40
oiaohmAs long as there is a record of payment.Jan 31 00:40
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: cheque.Jan 31 00:40
oiaohmIe you cannot be made pay for something you have already payed for.Jan 31 00:40
oiaohmThat is basic lawJan 31 00:41
oiaohmI have seen sales of properities delayed because some one had payed up rent.Jan 31 00:43
rnbargh, sorry.. i was just on the phone with the damn court-appointed receiverJan 31 00:46
rnboiaohm: yeah, but if you pay the wrong person, you still have to pay the -right- personJan 31 00:46
rnbthats what's happening to usJan 31 00:46
rnbi paid my january rent to the same company i've paid for 3-1/2 yearsJan 31 00:47
oiaohmIf you payed that person in good faith.Jan 31 00:47
oiaohmThe other person should not have taken it.Jan 31 00:47
rnbwell, as it turns out, i shouldnt have because he no longer holds this propertyJan 31 00:47
rnbthe court-appointed receiver doesJan 31 00:47
rnbso now, the court-appointed receiver wants january's rentJan 31 00:47
rnboiaohm: yes, you are correct, my old landlord should not have cashed that checkJan 31 00:48
oiaohmDid you get a formal letter informing you of change.Jan 31 00:48
rnboiaohm: but, he did, knowinglyJan 31 00:48
oiaohmBasically you were not information.Jan 31 00:48
oiaohmthe libablity is with the receiver and the past owner.Jan 31 00:48
rnboiaohm: well, thats the other thing, per the law, the court-appointed receivr MUST notify us of the changeJan 31 00:48
oiaohmBefore the rent was due.Jan 31 00:48
rnboiaohm: but, they didntJan 31 00:48
oiaohmI guess did notJan 31 00:48
oiaohmSo you should not have to pay twiceJan 31 00:49
jweyrichrnb: did you know the property changed its owner? :)Jan 31 00:49
oiaohmThey did not do there job.Jan 31 00:49
oiaohmIts acting in good faith protection.Jan 31 00:49
rnbjweyrich: no and, technically, the owner HASNT changedJan 31 00:49
oiaohmOf course you cannot get out of paying next month.Jan 31 00:49
rnbjweyrich: it's just that the owner is bankrupt, so a court-appointed receiver has taken over all incoming/outgoing moniesJan 31 00:49
oiaohmdue to paying to the wrong person.Jan 31 00:50
oiaohmReally you mess is quite simple. rnbJan 31 00:50
oiaohmAs long as you have documents proving you did pay rnbJan 31 00:50
oiaohmSince that money shoud have been forwards to the receiver by the owner.Jan 31 00:50
jweyrichrnb: that's not your problem. he has a problem with justice, he's bankrupt. so the new owner has to sue him to get your the money back. I don't see how you're involved :)Jan 31 00:51
rnbjweyrich: no, no.. there's no new ownerJan 31 00:51
jweyrichso?Jan 31 00:51
jweyrichstill not your problem.Jan 31 00:51
rnbjweyrich: a bankrupt company owns the propertyJan 31 00:51
oiaohmThe owner would have been under orders by the court.  rnbJan 31 00:51
oiaohmWhat he has disobeyed rnbJan 31 00:51
oiaohmBasically do you have documents proving payment rnbJan 31 00:52
jweyricha bankrupt company can't bill you! solved twice.Jan 31 00:52
oiaohmIf you do your fine.Jan 31 00:52
oiaohmBasically present the document to the reciever.Jan 31 00:52
oiaohmSay go get your money.Jan 31 00:53
rnboiaohm: that isnt how it worksJan 31 00:53
oiaohmLegally it is.Jan 31 00:53
rnbit isntJan 31 00:53
oiaohmBecause a court order on the owner would have been disobeyed.Jan 31 00:53
oiaohmOnce you go into recievership you are legally required to pass the monies you take to the reciever.Jan 31 00:54
oiaohmThat is the end of it.Jan 31 00:54
jweyrichbankruptcy = can't bill debtors anymoreJan 31 00:54
rnbsure, but he didntJan 31 00:54
oiaohmSo if you have documents that he got the money.Jan 31 00:55
oiaohmYou have done nothing legally wrong.Jan 31 00:55
oiaohmYou are paid.Jan 31 00:55
oiaohmIts the recievers job to legally skin him.Jan 31 00:55
FurnaceBoyI'm sure rnb knows what he's doing :)Jan 31 00:55
oiaohmNow for the reciever not having to do that is a lot simpler.Jan 31 00:55
jweyrichhe paid once, he will not pay again. the company can't bill him.Jan 31 00:55
oiaohmSo they try to trick people into paying twice.Jan 31 00:56
oiaohmLess paper work for them rnbJan 31 00:56
rnbFurnaceBoy: i do :)Jan 31 00:56
oiaohmHuman nature is at work rnbJan 31 00:57
rnbhuman nature?Jan 31 00:57
rnba bunch of sharky lawyers are at workJan 31 00:57
FurnaceBoysame thing :DJan 31 00:58
rnbwho specialize at making a ton of profit off of foreclosuresJan 31 00:58
rnblook at their damn websiteJan 31 00:58
-Martinp23-Hi everyone. We've disabled the +S chanmode for the time being. Normally, +S blocks users from joining a channel if they aren't connecting with SSL. If you still see +S in your channel's modelist, it will have *no effect*. For the now, you will be unable to add or remove this mode. We'll have a more permanent resolution asap. We're sorry for the inconvenience caused by our earlier technical difficulties. Jan 31 00:58
oiaohmYep exactly.Jan 31 00:58
rnb 31 00:58
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Receivers Inc. - Welcome .::. Size~: 11.98 KBJan 31 00:58
oiaohmThey will shake you down illegally just to make there job simpler rnbJan 31 00:58
jweyrichrnb: who's billing you for the rental?Jan 31 00:58
FurnaceBoyi think that's what rnb is sayingJan 31 00:58
oiaohmI have handled beasts like that before rnbJan 31 00:58
rnbit isnt human nature to scheme and try to hurt your fellow human beingsJan 31 00:59
jweyrichit's very human, unfortunately.Jan 31 00:59
jweyrichthe thing is that you don't need to pay, that simple.Jan 31 01:00
rnbpeople say that to justify the sick twisted society that we live inJan 31 01:00
rnbbut it isnt trueJan 31 01:00
rnbno, i DO need to payJan 31 01:00
rnbor potentially face an eviction proceeding against me, which is then always on record when you try to rent somewhere elseJan 31 01:01
jweyrichI don't see a single reason until now. everything you said until now points otherwise.Jan 31 01:01
rnbthe reason why is that the receivers are the company that should have been paidJan 31 01:01
jweyrichabove you said the owner was a bankrupt company.Jan 31 01:02
jweyrichsame one?Jan 31 01:03
rnbthere is an owner, and there is a court-appointed receiverJan 31 01:04
rnbtwo separate entitiesJan 31 01:04
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: see the problem?Jan 31 01:04
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: attempted scam, like oiaohm saidJan 31 01:04
jweyrichyes. a justice problem, not his.Jan 31 01:04
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: well...Jan 31 01:04
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: see also under "eviction notice"Jan 31 01:04
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: come on, I know *you're* familiar with low-life piece of shit scammers :)Jan 31 01:05
jweyrichsurelyJan 31 01:05
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: it appears that they KNOW most tenants will not take the risk of fighting themJan 31 01:05
jweyrichindeded it deserves the * marks LOLJan 31 01:05
FurnaceBoy:)Jan 31 01:06
jweyrichrnb: indeed, you're in bad hands.Jan 31 01:06
jweyrichwould have to pay an attorney for 1+ year, and not get your money back, because they're bankrupt.Jan 31 01:07
jweyrichwhich doesn't make sense if the bill is lower :)Jan 31 01:07
jweyrichthey're smart.Jan 31 01:07
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: i meant, fighting the receivers. Jan 31 01:08
jweyrichexactly what I'm saying.Jan 31 01:08
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: who may have set this upJan 31 01:08
FurnaceBoyif i've understood rnbJan 31 01:08
FurnaceBoyahJan 31 01:08
rnbFurnaceBoy: yes, its possibly they might have set this upJan 31 01:09
jweyrichbut what you just said, just gives another clue. what if the bankrupt company has connection with the court-appointed receivers?Jan 31 01:09
jweyrichheh.Jan 31 01:10
FurnaceBoyrnb: jweyrich: pretty nice gallery from Sul do Brasil (random page)Jan 31 01:10
rnbwel, so, this is the fun part of the storyJan 31 01:10
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Flickr: Zórzimo Croquezz's Photostream .::. Size~: 44.58 KBJan 31 01:11
rnbno one in the building can find the ownerJan 31 01:11
jweyrichwell, that's something only an prosecutor would benefice fighting against.Jan 31 01:11
rnbto yell at him and demand our security deposits and january rent backJan 31 01:11
FurnaceBoyyeah that's what i was thinking.Jan 31 01:11
FurnaceBoyif they attempted this serially.Jan 31 01:11
jweyrichrnb: did you try a prosecutor?Jan 31 01:11
FurnaceBoyfor example, how do they manage to get away with avoiding notification as a business modelJan 31 01:11
rnbi happened to RANDOMLY find a PDF via google for a contact list of an amateur softball leagueJan 31 01:12
jweyrichFurnaceBoy: watching now.Jan 31 01:12
rnband his name was on it w/a phone number i never saw before (all other phone #s for him didnt work)Jan 31 01:12
rnbi called it, and got himJan 31 01:12
rnband i played stupid, like i was on his sideJan 31 01:12
rnbso now i have his cell phone, address, email and home phoneJan 31 01:12
FurnaceBoyhehJan 31 01:12
rnband i'm goint to demand that he, personally, pay my january rent to the receiversJan 31 01:13
rnb*goingJan 31 01:13
rnbthere's more but i cant say because of the DAMNED PUBLIC LOGGINGJan 31 01:13
rnb:)Jan 31 01:14
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: this gallery brings back the mood of southern Brazil to meJan 31 01:14
rnboh, the galleryJan 31 01:14
rnbi went to latinoware in foz do iguacu a few months agoJan 31 01:14
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: very evocative, in different ways... even just the sight of rain on the streetsJan 31 01:14
jweyrichrnb: where are you from?Jan 31 01:14
jweyrichFurnaceBoy: it's colorful. Shows Santa Maria, and few other cities (which I don't know I guess)Jan 31 01:15
rnbjweyrich: right now, i live in san franciscoJan 31 01:15
rnb(california)Jan 31 01:15
jweyrichFurnaceBoy: I prefer Floripa :(Jan 31 01:15
jweyrichrnb: but are you north-american?Jan 31 01:15
rnbjweyrich: yeahJan 31 01:15
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: me 2Jan 31 01:16
rnbjweyrich: ohio, born there and raised there and PROUD OF ITJan 31 01:16
jweyrichand FurnaceBoy told you he's your friend? you should suspect him LOLJan 31 01:16
FurnaceBoylolJan 31 01:16
FurnaceBoyrnb knows my politicsJan 31 01:16
rnbour politics are very similar, it seemsJan 31 01:17
jweyrichI've never been on US. maybe soonJan 31 01:17
rnbjweyrich: where are you from?Jan 31 01:18
jweyrichrnb: southern brazilJan 31 01:18
FurnaceBoythat's why i introduced you two :)Jan 31 01:18
rnbjweyrich: oh.... oh!! ok, you're the brazuka in the channel that FurnaceBoy had been talking aboutJan 31 01:19
rnbnow i seeJan 31 01:19
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Currently tuned into Wrestlecrap Radio... 31 01:19
phIRCe-BNcTitle: WrestleCrap Radio .::. Size~: 12.15 KBJan 31 01:19
rnbwhat city in brazil?Jan 31 01:19
jweyrichbrazuka hahaJan 31 01:19
FurnaceBoywe met in FlorianopolisJan 31 01:19
FurnaceBoyand worked together for a whileJan 31 01:19
jweyrichwe were coworkers @ florianopolis-SC, now I'm in Porto Alegre-RSJan 31 01:20
rnbjweyrich: wasnt FSM in porto alegre this year?Jan 31 01:20
rnbit just ended?Jan 31 01:20
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: i don't know why, these pics make me miss brazilJan 31 01:20
jweyrichrnb: yesJan 31 01:20
rnbjweyrich: did you go to it? do you like that?Jan 31 01:21
jweyrichFurnaceBoy: you should anticipate your plans to visit us.Jan 31 01:21
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: my wife already made plans for xmas this year to be thereJan 31 01:21
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: so yes, i'll be doing something. she'll be travelling to Pelotas, I may stay in FloripaJan 31 01:22
jweyrichrnb: not really, I'm not into social things LOL. but I went to FISL (free software international forum)Jan 31 01:22
rnbjweyrich: i missed FISL this year, but my wife went to itJan 31 01:22
jweyrichreally? NICE!Jan 31 01:22
sebsebsebno schestowitz tonight?Jan 31 01:23
jweyrichI liked it, but the president thing fucked up :)Jan 31 01:23
rnbjweyrich: fucked up? because of lula's talk?Jan 31 01:23
rnbjweyrich: i dont know what you mean.. you didnt like lula's talk?Jan 31 01:24
jweyrichyeah. not his talk, but they closed 90% of the area for publicJan 31 01:24
sebsebseb 31 01:24
phIRCe-BNcTitle: 10 Blockbusters Made with the Help of Linux | Linux Netbook .::. Size~: 27 KBJan 31 01:24
jweyrichhundreds of people  squeezed in a micro-area.Jan 31 01:25
rnbjweyrich: yeah, i heard .. hehehJan 31 01:25
rnbjweyrich: well, lula is the most popular head of state in the world :)Jan 31 01:25
jweyrichhere's the map to give you an idea of the problem: 31 01:25
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Nardol: FISL10 day 2 .::. Size~: 14 KBJan 31 01:25
rnbi wish lula could run for a 3rd consecutive term :(Jan 31 01:26
rnbi'm scared... reassure me that dilma is going to winJan 31 01:26
jweyrichwell, I started to think about it yesterday. that would be great for Brazil.Jan 31 01:27
jweyrichdespite few things, he's assuredly the best president this country ever hadJan 31 01:27
*jweyrich doesn't like politics either.Jan 31 01:28
rnbwell, he can run again after this new preisident serves her termJan 31 01:28
jweyrichyeah. that rule of 2 consecutive mandates is just to avoid dictatorship.Jan 31 01:29
jweyrichbrb.Jan 31 01:29
rnbsureJan 31 01:30
rnbbut part of the Foro de Sao Paulo plan is that members of the FSP who become heads of state should try to hold constitutional assembliesJan 31 01:31
schestowitzsebsebseb:  brbJan 31 01:31
*schestowitz writes some long postsJan 31 01:31
rnbsince most consitutions in latin america were writtn as the dictatorships were on their way outJan 31 01:33
rnbso, like in honduras, the constitution heavily favors the traditional oligarchyJan 31 01:33
*oiaohm has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Jan 31 01:34
jweyrichback.Jan 31 01:35
FurnaceBoyyesJan 31 01:36
FurnaceBoyi know this is true in brazil... very problematic for environmental protection :(Jan 31 01:36
jweyricholigarchy @ honduras? I thought it was aristocraticJan 31 01:38
jweyrichFurnaceBoy: the short mandate?Jan 31 01:38
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: oligarchies are everywhere :)Jan 31 01:38
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: they just prefer we didn't talk about themJan 31 01:39
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: their business gets done better in the dark, like cockroachesJan 31 01:39
jweyrichwell, EVERY single govern is oligarchic, despite what they say. Jan 31 01:39
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: exactly, the misdirection is very pervasiveJan 31 01:39
FurnaceBoyand intentional Jan 31 01:39
jweyrichit's more like the people see it.Jan 31 01:40
FurnaceBoywell, they see that government is weak, and blame thatJan 31 01:40
FurnaceBoywithout going any deeperJan 31 01:40
FurnaceBoytypical USA syndrome, btwJan 31 01:40
jweyrichlolJan 31 01:40
FurnaceBoythey beat their chests on how hopeless government is, as if that is the problem per seJan 31 01:40
FurnaceBoyit's a first order complaintJan 31 01:41
jweyrichthe major problem of any country is the economic model.Jan 31 01:41
jweyricheconomy dictates every single life. FMI is a cancer.Jan 31 01:42
jweyrichs/FMI/IMF/Jan 31 01:42
FurnaceBoybit like our personal lives, as a microcosmJan 31 01:43
jweyrichdoesn't matter how much you work, and desperately pray, you'll be in debt forever.Jan 31 01:44
rnbFurnaceBoy: have you ever look at (i think thats the url.. checking...)Jan 31 01:44
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: unless you're connected to the oligarchy :)Jan 31 01:44
FurnaceBoyrnb: i know there are a couple of sites...Jan 31 01:45
rnbFurnaceBoy: i think an intelligent, leftist site with the same concept would be a worthwhile projectJan 31 01:46
rnbbut i have way more project ideas than timeJan 31 01:47
jweyrichFurnaceBoy: no, money is created out of nothing. someone say "this paper is worth $10", and the govern creates the "public treasury", and say "it's worth $10". they exchange, but the MFI charge interest on their $10. how could the govern pay $11, if they only have $10?Jan 31 01:47
jweyrichit's a big snow ball. grows every single day. until it explodes.Jan 31 01:48
jweyrichs/public/nationalJan 31 01:48
rnbFurnaceBoy: ... i wouldnt *recommend* it but there have been some interesting articlesJan 31 01:48
jweyrichFurnaceBoy: do you know the venus project?Jan 31 01:51
rnbjweyrich: but my point from earlier is that part of the constitutional assemblies include longer term limits for presidentsJan 31 01:52
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: noJan 31 01:52
rnbjweyrich: the one that made the zeitgeist movie?Jan 31 01:52
jweyrichrnb: yeah, that one.Jan 31 01:52
jweyrichit supports a resource-based economy -- 31 01:52
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 31 01:52
jweyrichforbidden? LOLJan 31 01:52
jweyrichthe bot is @ CHINA.Jan 31 01:53
rnbjweyrich: it's a little weird & cultish, no?Jan 31 01:53
sebsebsebschestowitz: wow this second page is pretty long, and   the whole thing is a pretty good read 31 01:53
jweyrichrnb: well, it's a big and crazy idea. but I don't see how we could make big advances (economically, and technologically) in our current model.Jan 31 01:54
jweyrichin fact, the current model was made to collapse.Jan 31 01:55
rnbjweyrich: i'm all for a revolutionary change away from capitalismJan 31 01:55
rnbjweyrich: but i prefer tendencies that have long histories with successes and extremely participatory evolution of ideasJan 31 01:56
rnbjweyrich: instead of the ideas of one french guy :)Jan 31 01:57
jweyrichif you grab the publicly available data, you'll certainly see the existing resources (food, water, etc) are more than enough for 6+Bi people, and we see high taxes of people with no access to food or water. Take Haiti for instance.Jan 31 01:58
rnbof course, lots of people throughout modern history have pointed out this sad fact and fought and died trying to change itJan 31 01:59
jweyrichrnb: the Venus project wouldn't succeed anytime soon. it will take a century or so. people can't change their way of thinking and natural instincts from day to night.Jan 31 02:00
rnbwe have more than enough resources to end poverty, starvation, preventable disease, etcJan 31 02:00
*_Goblin has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)Jan 31 02:00
rnbjweyrich: well, but there has already been more than a century of that going onJan 31 02:00
jweyrichmaybe it ends before succeeding. but at some point, people will have to cooperate, and completely put the economy aside.Jan 31 02:01
rnbjweyrich: people are fighting/dying for a society like that everydayJan 31 02:02
rnbjweyrich: they have been for a long timeJan 31 02:02
EruaranIt's an illusionJan 31 02:02
jweyrichfighting against what? the govern? the banks?Jan 31 02:02
jweyrichthey need to fight against other people's thoughts.Jan 31 02:03
EruaranYou'll only end up with a dictatorshipJan 31 02:03
rnbthis twisted system that puts artificial profit and power before human needJan 31 02:03
FurnaceBoyrnb: +1Jan 31 02:03
jweyrichfirst of all, instigate critical thinkingJan 31 02:03
FurnaceBoyrnb: the inequality is rocketing up even nowJan 31 02:03
rnbFurnaceBoy: yes it isJan 31 02:03
FurnaceBoyrnb: i saw an interesting chartJan 31 02:04
FurnaceBoyrnb: the lowest point in past few decades was ~ 9183Jan 31 02:04
FurnaceBoy1983Jan 31 02:04
FurnaceBoyrnb: then it started to rise againJan 31 02:04
rnbin the US? or globally?Jan 31 02:04
FurnaceBoyrnb: globallyJan 31 02:04
FurnaceBoyrnb: US, UK, France were indicatorsJan 31 02:04
FurnaceBoyrnb: France has lowestJan 31 02:04
FurnaceBoyof thoseJan 31 02:04
rnbwell, we should learn from those who are successful in fighting thisJan 31 02:04
FurnaceBoyrnb: I should find the chart, it was very clearJan 31 02:05
rnbthe bolivarian revoluton has drastically reduced wealth inequality in venezuela in the past 10 years or soJan 31 02:05
FurnaceBoyrnb: i think it was linked from the article i tweeted which called Bernanke outJan 31 02:05
rnbby all kinds of indicatorsJan 31 02:05
FurnaceBoyrnb: right, inequality has to be attackedJan 31 02:05
rnband, as chavez says: "our goal is not to make everyone rich. our goal is to make sure everyone in our society has a good quality of life"Jan 31 02:06
FurnaceBoyand that's quite achievableJan 31 02:06
rnb"that is not measured by the size of your bank account"Jan 31 02:06
jweyrichour nations already suffered of economic crisis. what happens when your fortune becomes worthless? it happened more than once in the history.Jan 31 02:07
EruaranIt's not like we haven't heard this kind of rhetoric beforeJan 31 02:07
rnbjweyrich: whose fortune?Jan 31 02:07
EruaranAnd the crisis was cause by corrupt bankersJan 31 02:07
jweyrichanyone, companies, people. govern.Jan 31 02:07
FurnaceBoyEruaran: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAJan 31 02:07
EruaranRead a history bookJan 31 02:07
FurnaceBoyEruaran: you don't think the USA is controlled by an oligarchy?Jan 31 02:08
EruaranI didn't say thatJan 31 02:08
FurnaceBoyso there's your answer.Jan 31 02:08
FurnaceBoythe bankers, like Obama, are just useful intermediaries.Jan 31 02:08
FurnaceBoyand scapegoatsJan 31 02:08
EruaranYou would only succeed in replacing one evil with anotherJan 31 02:08
FurnaceBoythe crash was engineeredJan 31 02:08
rnbEruaran: what are you talking about?Jan 31 02:08
EruaranHistoryJan 31 02:08
rnbEruaran: what evil is being advocated here?Jan 31 02:08
FurnaceBoyrnb: defeatismJan 31 02:08
jweyrichgovern = puppets controlled by biggest companies.Jan 31 02:09
jweyricheverywhere.Jan 31 02:09
EruaranIt's not defeatismJan 31 02:09
EruaranYour way wont workJan 31 02:09
FurnaceBoyEruaran: whose way?Jan 31 02:09
FurnaceBoyEruaran: you think inequality works? Jan 31 02:09
FurnaceBoyEruaran: it's increasing, did you know?Jan 31 02:09
EruaranPower corruptsJan 31 02:09
rnbEruaran: what is "my way" ?Jan 31 02:09
EruaranAbsolute power corrupts absolutelyJan 31 02:09
FurnaceBoy...Jan 31 02:10
rnb???Jan 31 02:10
EruaranYou can't change thatJan 31 02:10
jweyrichpower doesn't exist.Jan 31 02:10
rnbare you just reading out of a quotations book?Jan 31 02:10
EruaransighJan 31 02:10
Eruarannevermind, enjoyJan 31 02:10
rnbwell, maybe if you constructed a thoughtful sentence that was specific to the pointJan 31 02:10
rnbwe could have a meaningful discussionJan 31 02:10
EruaranI don't think its worth the effortJan 31 02:11
FurnaceBoyfor example, explain how the status quo (staggering inequality) works, and increasing inequality works better.Jan 31 02:11
rnbokJan 31 02:11
jweyrichcalm down :DJan 31 02:11
FurnaceBoyit's not an "accidental" state of affairsJan 31 02:12
rnbjweyrich: anyways, my point is that people all over the world have been and continue to fight for what you're talking aboutJan 31 02:12
FurnaceBoynor something that we can shrug and say, "well, that's just the way the world is."Jan 31 02:12
rnbjweyrich: there is no excuse to wait, if you want to be involved in making it happenJan 31 02:12
jweyrichrnb: I see your point. but I think the attack is not well directed.Jan 31 02:12
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rnbjweyrich: it's happening right nowJan 31 02:12
rnbjweyrich: which attack?Jan 31 02:13
jweyrichthe way they fight against it.Jan 31 02:13
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: imho, we should take gandhi at his word, and live the changeJan 31 02:13
rnbjweyrich: the way who fights against what?Jan 31 02:13
jweyrichan idea to succeed need to be accepted by the majorityJan 31 02:13
jweyrichit requires critical thinking.Jan 31 02:13
FurnaceBoyhehJan 31 02:13
rnbFurnaceBoy: i hate gandhi for making me agree with christopher hitchens :PJan 31 02:13
FurnaceBoyapparently not, jweyrichJan 31 02:13
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: the way the world is run, requires no rational or critical thinking for the decisions of the oligarchy to be ratified and actionedJan 31 02:14
jweyrichFurnaceBoy: it does, the problem is that majority haven't developed critical thinking. they agree with any argument!Jan 31 02:14
rnbjweyrich: oh, thats not trueJan 31 02:14
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: so why wouldn't they agree with yours? :)Jan 31 02:14
jweyrichFurnaceBoy: because they're surrounded by people saying otherwise.Jan 31 02:14
jweyrichit's a conflict.Jan 31 02:15
rnbjweyrich: the vast majority of the world are decent human beings who want nothing besides peace, harmony and co-operation with their fellow humansJan 31 02:15
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: i agree that the best hope is to raise children as independent thinkers. :)Jan 31 02:15
rnbjweyrich: but they are trapped in a horrific system that is difficult to understandJan 31 02:15
FurnaceBoy+1Jan 31 02:15
jweyrichonce they see the arguments under critical view, nobody will convince them otherwise.Jan 31 02:15
jweyrichrnb: I agree with that.Jan 31 02:16
jweyrichmost people just don't want to get involved.Jan 31 02:16
jweyrichit in fact, includes me somehow.Jan 31 02:16
FurnaceBoyright.. because they are kept in deliberate ignorance how their lives are compromised deliberatelyJan 31 02:16
rnbjweyrich: not -everyone- is going to ever be involved Jan 31 02:17
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Evidently, approximately no-one actually builds X from source. Two "duh" bugs so far. Try it yourself: 31 02:17
phIRCe-BNcTitle: X.Org Wiki - JhBuildInstructions .::. Size~: 19.98 KBJan 31 02:17
rnbjweyrich: it just requires a critical mass of people to make social change, history proves thatJan 31 02:17
jweyrichjust summarizes how many people you know with strong opinions. they're the critical thinkers. even if they thoughts are not correct.Jan 31 02:17
FurnaceBoythe facts are so incredibly uncomfortable i can understand why 99% of people refuse to look at or accept them.Jan 31 02:18
FurnaceBoydoesn't change the facts.Jan 31 02:18
jweyrichrnb: yes, the only solution, but now making protests in front of the TV.Jan 31 02:18
rnbjweyrich: well, me personally? i can think of tens of millions of people who are fighting against capitalism, every single dayJan 31 02:18
jweyrichs/now/NOTJan 31 02:18
EruaranFour legs good, two legs bad...Jan 31 02:18
rnbEruaran: you should begin all your points with "CONFUSCIOUS SAY [...]"Jan 31 02:19
FurnaceBoyOrwell is a good start.Jan 31 02:19
rnbEruaran: look in the backlog, it works!Jan 31 02:19
FurnaceBoyEruaran: did you read "1984" as well?Jan 31 02:19
EruaranBeing trite is easy isn't itJan 31 02:20
FurnaceBoyevidently..Jan 31 02:20
FurnaceBoyif you think these issues are 'trite' you may have the wrong channelJan 31 02:20
*jweyrich ceases the subjectJan 31 02:20
rnbjweyrich: why?Jan 31 02:20
EruaranThat is not what I said is itJan 31 02:20
FurnaceBoydid you happen to read "1984" as well as "Animal Farm"?Jan 31 02:21
EruaranDid you understand the commentJan 31 02:21
FurnaceBoyit was irrelevant.Jan 31 02:21
rnbjweyrich: i have to ask ... what does your nick mean?Jan 31 02:21
jweyrichrnb: not fan of politics. but wanted to see your point of views.Jan 31 02:21
EruaranThen you didn't understand itJan 31 02:21
FurnaceBoyEruaran: say something with contentJan 31 02:21
rnbjweyrich: why is it "politics" ..? we're just talking about our livesJan 31 02:21
FurnaceBoyEruaran: we gave some suggestions aboveJan 31 02:22
jweyrichrnb: most people think it's JEW rich :P but I'm descendent of german and italian. jardel weyrich.Jan 31 02:22
rnbjweyrich: it annoys me that certain topics are pigeon-holed as "politics"Jan 31 02:22
EruaranAnd I suggest you read Animal Farm againJan 31 02:22
FurnaceBoyEruaran: for example, how do YOU characterise the major issues and approaches to solving them?Jan 31 02:22
FurnaceBoyEruaran: no needJan 31 02:22
FurnaceBoyEruaran: for example, how do YOU characterise the major issues and approaches to solving them?Jan 31 02:22
rnbjweyrich: thats what i thought :) Jan 31 02:22
FurnaceBoyEruaran: that's a serious qJan 31 02:22
EruaranI'll leave that to youJan 31 02:22
FurnaceBoyEruaran: ?????Jan 31 02:23
rnbis Eruaran a bot?Jan 31 02:23
jweyrichrnb: indeed, it isn't directly politics, but involves too much of it  actually.Jan 31 02:23
FurnaceBoyrnb: wouldn't you agree that's worth hearing?Jan 31 02:23
FurnaceBoyEruaran: no, i'd really like to know.Jan 31 02:23
rnbjweyrich: what is "politics"?Jan 31 02:23
FurnaceBoyEruaran: you keep interjecting with quotationsJan 31 02:23
jweyrichrnb: but I can continue if you want.Jan 31 02:23
EruaranIt's commentaryJan 31 02:23
FurnaceBoyEruaran: but how do you see the problem(s) and solutions(s)?Jan 31 02:23
rnbFurnaceBoy: i'm interested in any lengthy, meaningful point coming out of Eruaran Jan 31 02:23
FurnaceBoyEruaran: in a PRACTICAL sense.Jan 31 02:23
FurnaceBoyEruaran: I'm not being tricky. it's a genuine questionJan 31 02:23
EruaranThe problem is not politicalJan 31 02:24
jweyrichpolitic is a decision made by a group of people.Jan 31 02:24
FurnaceBoyEruaran: what *is* the problem then?Jan 31 02:24
FurnaceBoyin your viewJan 31 02:24
rnbjweyrich: ?Jan 31 02:24
FurnaceBoyand how should we solve itJan 31 02:24
EruaranThe problem is in the mirrorJan 31 02:24
FurnaceBoyand how should we solve itJan 31 02:24
jweyrichrnb: I'm lost on our conversation :)Jan 31 02:24
rnbjweyrich: i dont understand what you mean when you say you dont like to "talk about politics"Jan 31 02:25
rnbjweyrich: what exactly is it that you dont like to talk about?Jan 31 02:25
jweyrichrnb: ah ok.Jan 31 02:25
FurnaceBoyEruaran: perhaps you underestimate the degree of introspection I am capable of.Jan 31 02:25
FurnaceBoyEruaran: how would you describe the status quo, around the world, in terms of wealth distribution, abuse of force, etcJan 31 02:27
FurnaceBoyEruaran: and if you see a problem, how would you try to improve it?Jan 31 02:27
jweyrichrnb: I don't like to discuss about conflicting things within a group. I try to keep it short if I do.Jan 31 02:28
FurnaceBoyof course, all discussion is mostly wasted time. actions count. :)Jan 31 02:28
jweyrichI agree at certain level with that FurnaceBoy. but discussions are a necessity to prove points. inevitably.Jan 31 02:30
jweyrichwhich isn't bad at all.Jan 31 02:30
rnbsome conversations are a waste of timeJan 31 02:30
FurnaceBoywell, you won't get anywhere with some cultural groups hahaJan 31 02:30
jweyrichtruth :)Jan 31 02:30
jweyrichI prefer the divide & conquer  heh.Jan 31 02:31
rnbbut especially amongst people who 1) agree on an end goal and 2) want to take action, discussion is necessary to form "praxical cohesion" :)Jan 31 02:31
FurnaceBoy"pick your battles" is good adviceJan 31 02:31
jweyricha single voice (theoretically) can't scream louder than a group of voices.Jan 31 02:32
FurnaceBoy...which is why the way one lives can be most importantJan 31 02:32
jweyrichhence the divide and conquer.Jan 31 02:32
rnbChavez' call for the creation of a Fifth International, as "an instrument for the unification and the articulation of the struggle of the peoples to save this planet," takes the project to the planetary level.Jan 31 02:33
rnbIt based on a sober analysis of the social forces arrayed around the planet, with an eye to the possibility of using what institutions exist to move a progressive agenda, and to build toward the formation of a new moral-social compact such as the 1999 Venezuelan Constitution and ALBA.Jan 31 02:33
rnbVIVA!!Jan 31 02:34
rnbthat's big news, that has been completely ignored by English language pressJan 31 02:34
rnbthe creation of a Fifth International ... we live in exciting times filled with enormous potentialJan 31 02:35
*jweyrich listening MozartJan 31 02:39
rnbbut come on, what's happening in Latin America is of enormous historical significanceJan 31 02:41
rnbtens or maybe hundreds of million of people are mobilized against all the things we hate, FurnaceBoy Jan 31 02:42
jweyrichrnb: what do you do for living?Jan 31 02:45
rnbjweyrich: it's complicated :)Jan 31 02:46
rnbjweyrich: i have a business doing free software development in san francisco with a network of developers from all over latin americaJan 31 02:47
jweyrichoh!!! that's really coolJan 31 02:47
FurnaceBoy:)Jan 31 02:48
rnbjweyrich: and i'm involved with a number of non-profit organizationsJan 31 02:48
jweyrichbut I suppose you have difficulties getting $ from it.. ?Jan 31 02:48
rnbjweyrich: not at all ... san francisco has tons of workJan 31 02:48
jweyrichawesome!Jan 31 02:48
rnbwe have developers from brazil, ecuador, mexico, venezuela, paraguay and argentinaJan 31 02:49
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @cracked A Day in America According to a (Baffled) Foreigner: - English, to be preciseJan 31 02:50
phIRCe-BNcTitle: A Day in America According to a (Baffled) Foreigner | .::. Size~: 78.87 KBJan 31 02:50
jweyrichFurnaceBoy: I'll probably reject the eias thing. not sure yet.Jan 31 02:50
jweyrichFurnaceBoy: need to give an answer by feb 2ndJan 31 02:50
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: i cJan 31 02:50
jweyrichi'm in the middle of a big problem with the company now. just didn't have time to study their sourcesJan 31 02:51
jweyrichit would delay everything. for both eias and me.Jan 31 02:52
jweyrichwill look forward to working with them in the future.Jan 31 02:52
jweyrichrnb: any kind of software?Jan 31 02:53
rnbjweyrich: mostly web applications, primarily php/mysql but any kind of free software platformJan 31 02:54
rnbjweyrich: but we do it all ... Jan 31 02:55
jweyrichrnb: let me guess, you met toby from a php mailing list?Jan 31 02:55
jweyrichphp/mysql*Jan 31 02:55
rnbjweyrich: i dont know a tobyJan 31 02:55
jweyrichFurnaceBoy, sorry.Jan 31 02:56
rnboh, hehJan 31 02:56
rnbno, i met FurnaceBoy hereJan 31 02:56
jweyrichFurnaceBoy: just revealed your identity :(Jan 31 02:56
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jweyrichrnb, FurnaceBoy: you should make business together :)Jan 31 02:58
rnbwell, i have a business :) but i give a referral fee for contracts and i'm always looking for talented free software geeks from latin america to join our network :)Jan 31 03:02
rnband, as soon as we update our website (this week) i will talk much more about my business in hereJan 31 03:02
rnbjweyrich: what do you do for a living?Jan 31 03:05
jweyrichrnb: cool. hope soJan 31 03:08
jweyrichrnb: I work as programmer. recently opened my own business too, focused on IT security, but we're still working on our 1st product.Jan 31 03:09
rnbjweyrich: i have a really good friend who has a company in buenos aires and they have a really interesting IT security productJan 31 03:11
jweyrichrnb: what's the company name?Jan 31 03:12
rnbjweyrich: they are in stealth mode ... but i'm pretty sure their application is available for download (it's an open source product)Jan 31 03:12
rnbjweyrich: i will ask him for the url & show youJan 31 03:12
jweyrichcoolJan 31 03:12
rnbjweyrich: he spent 4 months or so living with me and developing itJan 31 03:13
jweyrichI know some argentinian from hacking conferences.Jan 31 03:13
rnbbuenos aires is attempting to build a "silicon valley of the south" ... it's called.. mm.. hold onJan 31 03:14
jweyrichlast year I met cesar cerrudo from argenissJan 31 03:16
rnbshit, i cant believe i dont remember thisJan 31 03:16
jweyrichI met frederico kirschbaum back in 2005 or 2006.Jan 31 03:16
rnboh yeah! this ->Jan 31 03:16
rnb 31 03:17
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Palermo Valley  Información, novedades y eventos de la comunidad web 2.0 en Argentina .::. Size~: 42.09 KBJan 31 03:17
rnbbut ... come on, brazil is south america's internet/IT leader! :))Jan 31 03:17
rnbjweyrich: i REALLY want to be living in brazilJan 31 03:19
rnbjweyrich: but my business keeps me hereJan 31 03:19
jweyrichwell, the infrastructure isn't good compared to US and other countries. take a look at this http://ptt.brJan 31 03:19
phIRCe-BNcTitle: PTT Metro .::. Size~: 0.41 KBJan 31 03:19
rnbjweyrich: because i have a lot of contacts in the "dot-com" world here and it's where we get the majority of our work...Jan 31 03:19
jweyrichrnb: didn't get what palermovalley is. his company?Jan 31 03:20 -- coolJan 31 03:20
jweyrichrnb: be sure you wouldn't get half of these contracts @ brazil.Jan 31 03:20
rnbno, palermo valley is an attempt to create a kind of "silicon valley" near buenos airesJan 31 03:20
jweyrichptt shows the main gateways bandwidth usageJan 31 03:21
rnbwhere there are many innovative companies, a community of programmers and so on all living there and working thereJan 31 03:21
jweyrichexcept for SP, other states are very "slow".Jan 31 03:21
rnbnooooJan 31 03:22
rnbbrazil is the most exciting country in the world for free softwareJan 31 03:22
rnbeven parana! with celepar and what they are doingJan 31 03:22
rnband serpro is the largest state-owned IT firm in the americasJan 31 03:23
jweyrichdidn't know the celepar.Jan 31 03:23
rnbinclusao digital is also amazingJan 31 03:23
jweyrichbrazil has a strong community, and early adopters of free technologyJan 31 03:24
rnbyou know , yes?Jan 31 03:24
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Software Livre Brasil .::. Size~: 32.78 KBJan 31 03:24
jweyrichsure.Jan 31 03:24
jweyrichduring FISL received an invitation to collaborate with the event organization.Jan 31 03:25
rnbbrazil is the case study of how free software can replace nearly everything in enterprise organizations, government organizations, schools, etcJan 31 03:25
rnbmy wife worked at the palacio do planalto, migrating them to all free softwareJan 31 03:25
jweyrichwow. amazingJan 31 03:26
rnbyeah.. unfortunately, it is dinnertime for me :)Jan 31 03:26
rnbbut we should talk about this moreJan 31 03:26
rnbi've been working with free software / tech / media in latin america for about 10 years nowJan 31 03:26
jweyrichnp. 1am here. need to download qmake and try to fix some thing they trolls didn't :)Jan 31 03:27
jweyrichs/they/the/Jan 31 03:27
rnbwhile at the same time, working with or involved with projects at linkedin, tagged, yahoo, facebook, etc, so i know a lot of people from that worldJan 31 03:27
jweyrichthat's cool!Jan 31 03:28
rnbso that's why my business works.. because i'm one of the few people deeply involved in the san francisco dot-com world and the latin america free software worldJan 31 03:28
rnbi want to do less and less work for VC-funded companies in san franciscoJan 31 03:28
jweyrichpast year I was wishing to move to US, but I didn't find a good niche / opportunity.Jan 31 03:28
rnband more and more work doing government projects in brazil & venzuelaJan 31 03:29
jweyrichmaybe I move this year, I hope so.Jan 31 03:29
rnbi could try to help you with thatJan 31 03:29
rnbwe should talk more about what exactly you want to doJan 31 03:29
jweyrichgreat!!Jan 31 03:29
jweyrichI appreciate.Jan 31 03:29
rnbsure, cant promise anything because the US are jerks about visas latelyJan 31 03:30
rnb-especially- from brazilJan 31 03:30
jweyrichyeah, that's the major problem I faced.Jan 31 03:30
rnbbut you arent from minais gerais, so that helps :)Jan 31 03:30
jweyrichHAHAHAJan 31 03:30
jweyrichwhy that?Jan 31 03:30
rnbfor some reason, US immigration REALLY discriminates against people from MG, especially belo horizonteJan 31 03:31
jweyrichdidn't have a clue about that. interesting.Jan 31 03:31
rnbyeah.. its weirdJan 31 03:31
rnbits all based on statistics and formulas that they come up withJan 31 03:31
jweyrichI could spend 6 months @ italy to get my citizenship. but that's not easy as well.Jan 31 03:32
rnbok i gotta goJan 31 03:32
rnbwe talk laterJan 31 03:32
jweyrichalright. bon apetit!Jan 31 03:32
rnbi'll pvt you my emailJan 31 03:32
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oiaohm  I just noticed something.Jan 31 03:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: MSFT: Balance Sheet for Microsoft Corporation - Yahoo! Finance .::. Size~: 64.44 KBJan 31 03:47
oiaohmThe december blance sheet for 2009 is missing.Jan 31 03:47
oiaohmThis is very much the big EJan 31 03:48
oiaohmThe big E made public annonce ments they had big profits but no data turned up in the share market then they disappeared.Jan 31 03:48
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chad_does anyone know about linux on xboxJan 31 04:04
oiaohmWhat xbox chad_Jan 31 04:05
chad_originalJan 31 04:05
chad_or to run on a wii but still be able to play gamesJan 31 04:06
oiaohm  << That site has all the instructions.Jan 31 04:06
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Main Page - Xbox-Linux .::. Size~: 20.51 KBJan 31 04:06
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chad_been to that page i bought mechassult after a guy at staples told me it was possible but apparently the disk is a newer version any way to download a disk that could run from boot on its ownJan 31 04:08
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oiaohmYou really have to follow the howto chad_.  There are differences between versions. chad_Jan 31 04:11
oiaohmSome you can use game save breaching and the like to get the Linux boot loader in there chad_Jan 31 04:11
oiaohmSome cases you will want a mod chipJan 31 04:11
oiaohmAlso if you had read the how to you would know that only particular versions of mechassult work chad_Jan 31 04:14
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oiaohm  << chad_Jan 31 04:14
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Getting Started - Xbox-Linux .::. Size~: 44.1 KBJan 31 04:15
oiaohmNothing is 100 percent straight forward when breaking into things.Jan 31 04:15
chad_yeah i stopped and picked up the only one they had at gamestop and ms stopped supporting everything about the original unlike sony much better product supportJan 31 04:16
oiaohmYep most likely got patched version chad_Jan 31 04:17
oiaohm  Breaking into wii consoles is simpler.Jan 31 04:18
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Homebrew setup - WiiBrew .::. Size~: 37.28 KBJan 31 04:18
chad_yeah like i said i read the page after i had bought the game (it was only a dollar) one of the pages i read and i read about 5 different ones told me the number on the bottom of the disk Jan 31 04:19
chad_i was hoping someone would know another wayJan 31 04:19
oiaohmWeld a mod chip on and directly load the Linux loader in chad_Jan 31 04:19
chad_will that disable the game playing its for my stepson to have his own pc but he still wants to play gamesJan 31 04:21
oiaohmDepends on mod chipJan 31 04:21
oiaohmLots can run duel bios.Jan 31 04:21
oiaohmIe 1 bios for Linux 1 bios for Xbox normal.Jan 31 04:21
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Canada haz a Fox News! #douchebagsJan 31 04:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: National Post Editorial Board: Women's Studies is still with us .::. Size~: 119.89 KBJan 31 04:22
oiaohmIts why I hate anti mod chip countries.  chad_Jan 31 04:25
oiaohmWhen the hardware becomes unsupported without mod chips sometimes you cannot recycle them into something else useful.Jan 31 04:25
chad_where can i get modchips for xbox i live in fl, usaJan 31 04:28
oiaohmYour screwedJan 31 04:29
oiaohmUSA is one of the places Australia cannot ship mod chips.Jan 31 04:29
chad_why is that i have a friend who had a moded xboxJan 31 04:30
chad_and i think i am understanding the wii it is added as a channel will that mess up anything for gameplayJan 31 04:31
oiaohmA few years ago Australia mod chip maker was shipping to the usa.Jan 31 04:31
chad_i see and ms got mad i'm guessingJan 31 04:31
oiaohmEnded up in the USA court fighting a DCMA charge chad_Jan 31 04:31
chad_dcma????Jan 31 04:32
oiaohm 31 04:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Digital Millennium Copyright Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 81.97 KBJan 31 04:32
oiaohmOne letter backwards sorry chad_Jan 31 04:32
chad_ok sorry Jan 31 04:33
oiaohmBasically your laws for mod chip makers is not fun.Jan 31 04:33
chad_yeah usa is all about big corporation bsJan 31 04:34
oiaohmI don't know if mod chips loaded with chromwell would be outside the problem.Jan 31 04:35
oiaohmThinking that chromwell image does not allow games to run.Jan 31 04:35
chad_thats why the gov bailed out the big banks and the auto manufacturersJan 31 04:36
oiaohmIts just to run Linux.Jan 31 04:36
oiaohmIe firmware on board would still have to be used to run games.Jan 31 04:36
chad_that would be bad and i think thats what it saidJan 31 04:36
oiaohmIe chromwell addon cards can be turned on and off.Jan 31 04:36
oiaohmSo switch one way it boots from the mod chipJan 31 04:37
chad_ok that would be good i will have to figure out how to get oneJan 31 04:37
oiaohmSwitch the other it boots as it always use to.Jan 31 04:37
oiaohmMind you the australian was shipping in a firmware that allowed playing backups. chad_Jan 31 04:37
oiaohmPerfectly legal in Australia.Jan 31 04:38
chad_yeah i know and international trade gets tricky with the us same thing with canada and us perscription drugsJan 31 04:39
chad_do you know anything about the 360 and linuxJan 31 04:45
oiaohmThat is and its a bugger.Jan 31 04:49
oiaohmMust have the right version kernel to get in chad_Jan 31 04:49
chad_yeah i read some of thatJan 31 04:52
chad_ms sucks they have all kinds of bugs and viruses on the pc software but not in the xboxJan 31 04:52
chad_i guess in a way it makes it the only truly good thing they have madeJan 31 04:53
oiaohm  Don't underestmate the creativity of australians.Jan 31 04:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Samsung Kreon Drive To Make 360 Backups [1.0] - $89.00 :, Australian Supplier of  WiiKey, Drivekey, M3, R4DS and CycloDS  .::. Size~: 29.01 KBJan 31 04:55
oiaohmxbox 360 disks perfect copies.Jan 31 04:56
oiaohmThat is the stupid part all these TPM chips don't stop people pirating the stuff really.Jan 31 04:57
chad_yeah so if i know some one that moved to au from usa could she ship a chipset to meJan 31 04:58
oiaohmthere will be other suppliers.Jan 31 04:58
oiaohmAlways will be.Jan 31 04:59
oiaohmFun thing here is the old xbox was regional coded.Jan 31 04:59
oiaohmso that made it fair game to be mod chipped.Jan 31 04:59
oiaohmSince regional coding is classed as descrimitation and illegal under australian law.Jan 31 05:00
oiaohmNothing like releasing devices here that are illegal so you cannot protect you TPM method.Jan 31 05:00
chad_what i am asking is would having an aussie fed ex the mod chip to me would i get in troubleJan 31 05:01
oiaohmCouldJan 31 05:01
oiaohmBetter to get it like directly out of china where people cannot be pulled into a USA court.Jan 31 05:01
chad_ok i will look for some from chinaJan 31 05:02
oiaohmThere might be some in the USAJan 31 05:03
oiaohmThey were trying to put a mod chip designer here out of business.Jan 31 05:03
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chad_what do you think the chances areJan 31 05:04
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-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] This is what happends when i enter #emacs-in @abbe rocks :DJan 31 06:52
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schestowitz> More wild drug stories.  Jan 31 09:12
schestowitz> Jan 31 09:12
schestowitz> 31 09:12
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schestowitz> Jan 31 09:12
schestowitz> District judge Cormac Carney however noted Nicholas' former bacchanalian lifestyle, saying: "From the evidence... as well as what's been attained from the pretrial services, it does seem that you had a serious drug problem. You  paid dearly for that. You lost your marriage, you lost your job, your  reputation has been tarnished, but from what I gather you've been clean and  sober for two years and I commend you for that."Jan 31 09:12
schestowitz> Jan 31 09:12
schestowitz> I'm not sure how he got out of those charges which were laid in 2007.  It must  be that only poor people go to jail for drug use.  Other, more serious  charges are on appeal.  Shame on The Register for a sloppy article.  The  commendation for not being an ass is sickening.  Jan 31 09:13
schestowitzI've just gotten a long "Inquiry Regarding Boycott Novell"Jan 31 09:30
schestowitzI guess it's time to redo the site's structure in some waysJan 31 09:30
schestowitz"Jan 31 09:30
schestowitzI wanted to ask, if your website is being properly displayed, because it appears as if something is wrong.Jan 31 09:30
schestowitzI have provided an inline screen shot below to let you see, okay.Jan 31 09:30
schestowitz"Jan 31 09:30
MarcusKozeschestowitz: i guess you can implement some custom theme for the site right ? a personal opinion, some minimalism might just do the trick there, you got lots of content, adding too many bling bling images and so on, wouldn't help those with tighter bandwidthJan 31 09:34
MarcusKozeor i think that "inquiry" means the broken background from the top, where's that banner with no links, under the top-most linksJan 31 09:35
EruaranI haven't noticed any problems since the other dayJan 31 09:41
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schestowitzMarcusKoze: the issue is:Jan 31 09:46
schestowitzSome people thing it's just theme switchingJan 31 09:46
schestowitzOr content tweaksJan 31 09:46
schestowitzBut I have over 10000 pagesJan 31 09:46
schestowitzSee 31 09:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Makeover | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 98.23 KBJan 31 09:46
schestowitzJust postedJan 31 09:46
schestowitzEruaran: the site is not easy to navigate. I want to make the information more easily accessibleJan 31 09:47
schestowitz"As your readers will notice, there appears to be some margin error, showing a light grey shadow edge running along the right side of your blog.  Also, the popup doesn’t go away, regarding the “Roy Schestowitz” element. "Jan 31 09:47
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Can anyone tell me the band singing this please? - no, its not Megadeath. #metal #90stweet #rockJan 31 09:48
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MarcusKozeschestowitz: there's still a bottom padding (or margin from the inner-links/wrappers of the links) on that div with id=""headmenuJan 31 09:49
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schestowitzre the margins, That's the correct layoutJan 31 09:50
MarcusKozehm Jan 31 09:50
schestowitzdoes anyone have issues with the popups? I think it's a browser issue this reader was having. The popups are supposed to give preview of what people hover overJan 31 09:50
MarcusKozebut it dislocates the top background with horizontal repeat from the page wrapperJan 31 09:50
MarcusKozewhat popups ?Jan 31 09:50
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MarcusKozeyou mean those black labels over the links ?Jan 31 09:51
MarcusKozeperhaps the guy uses ie ;))Jan 31 09:51
schestowitz[09:49] <MarcusKoze> schestowitz: there's still a bottom padding (or margin from the inner-links/wrappers of the links) on that div with id=""headmenuJan 31 09:51
schestowitzI think I see what you meanJan 31 09:52
MarcusKozehavent inspected the elements inside, let me do that Jan 31 09:52
schestowitzMarcusKoze: no, it's a FOSS guy. Maybe some 'Linux browser' like EpiphanyJan 31 09:52
MarcusKozewell, i dont have any issues on ffox 3.5.7Jan 31 09:53
MarcusKozeso from what i see there are links directly inserted into that div #headmenu Jan 31 09:54
MarcusKozefor a more semantic layout you could replace the div with a ul tag and wrap the links in li Jan 31 09:54
MarcusKozebut anyway, just a suggestion Jan 31 09:54
schestowitzAh.. I see what you meanJan 31 09:55
schestowitzIt goes back _over two years ago_Jan 31 09:55
schestowitzI focused too much on writing content, not much on how it's presentedJan 31 09:56
MarcusKozeso div #headmenu Jan 31 09:56
MarcusKozehas a height specified of 60pxJan 31 09:56
MarcusKozeit's twice as much as it needsJan 31 09:56
MarcusKozeanyway Jan 31 09:56
MarcusKozecould work with nbo height at all Jan 31 09:56
schestowitzWe'll need to change the site some time soon.Jan 31 09:57
MarcusKozejust apply some padding-top of around 8px and it'll be cute and ergonomicJan 31 09:57
schestowitzI'll incorporate a lot what what a person suggested.Jan 31 09:57
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schestowitzHe wrote to me this huge analysis with images and everything... like 10 screen 'loads'Jan 31 09:57
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MarcusKozeyeah well tried to be of help if possible, html/css is my main professionJan 31 09:58
MarcusKozeaw, like the YSlow analysis ? Jan 31 09:58
MarcusKozeuse sprites and so on ?Jan 31 09:58
schestowitzThe issue if the div's backgroundJan 31 09:59
schestowitzIf I extend with padding it would not look rightJan 31 09:59
MarcusKozealso could replace that image for the logo with a h1 tag and just have it's background set to the logo image Jan 31 09:59
MarcusKozewhat do you mean ?Jan 31 10:00
MarcusKozeremove the height property firstJan 31 10:00
MarcusKozefrom the cssJan 31 10:00
schestowitzokJan 31 10:00
schestowitzI see what you mean...Jan 31 10:00
MarcusKozehm, or actually leave the height for 30px Jan 31 10:01
EruaranThe wiki page or the blog ?Jan 31 10:01
schestowitzIn the html, should I do inline syle?Jan 31 10:01
Eruaransry was afkJan 31 10:01
schestowitzEruaran: blogJan 31 10:01
MarcusKozenot recvommendedJan 31 10:01
schestowitzstyle="padding..;"?Jan 31 10:01
MarcusKozewell, noone is gouing to kill you for that, but not recomendedJan 31 10:01
MarcusKozecan you edit the css ?Jan 31 10:02
MarcusKozeit'd be much betterJan 31 10:02
MarcusKozeit's the central styling source (the css file)Jan 31 10:02
MarcusKozemuch easier to apply changes thereJan 31 10:02
EruaranI don't think its that bad really, just a little busyJan 31 10:02
EruaranA blog style page is easier on the eyes if there's not so much stuff on the page trying to grab your attentionJan 31 10:04
schestowitzMarcusKoze: yes, I do that nowJan 31 10:05
schestowitzBut the CSS is being cached which makes it hard to testJan 31 10:05
MarcusKozeawJan 31 10:05
MarcusKozewell, CTRL + F5 then :)Jan 31 10:05
schestowitzNot browser cacheJan 31 10:05
schestowitzServer-side cacheJan 31 10:05
MarcusKozeor clean the cache with the browser tool Jan 31 10:05
MarcusKozeawJan 31 10:05
schestowitzThe site was getting hammed before we did thatJan 31 10:06
MarcusKozeah shift ...Jan 31 10:06
schestowitzMaybe I should leave it as it is?Jan 31 10:06
MarcusKozewell... ok then Jan 31 10:06
schestowitzIt would be painful to changeJan 31 10:06
schestowitzMost of the changes are to contentJan 31 10:06
schestowitzI always get some haters of the themeJan 31 10:06
MarcusKozei seeJan 31 10:06
EruaranThere's a few things on the page that can reasonably disappear under fewer main title headingsJan 31 10:07
MarcusKozewell, it's your site :)Jan 31 10:07
schestowitzI've personally liked this theme before Boycott Novell even existedJan 31 10:07
schestowitzBased on what I see, most people don't navigate much through menusJan 31 10:07
schestowitzThey read the content pages (Wiki, then main blog)Jan 31 10:07
EruaranyesJan 31 10:07
schestowitzFrom the blog they follow through to other blog items linked insideJan 31 10:07
schestowitzNot the sidebarsJan 31 10:08
schestowitzHardly everJan 31 10:08
schestowitzI can't check anymoreJan 31 10:08
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schestowitzCause all the requests come from a proxyJan 31 10:08
schestowitzCache proxyJan 31 10:08
MarcusKozehow do you clear the cache from the server ?Jan 31 10:10
schestowitz"In addition, the page boarder, doesn’t blend into the background (E6EEEE). All that is needed here is to use the correct color of the background with a drop shadow applied on top. You could use a transparent png file to achieve this result too, so you know."Jan 31 10:10
MarcusKozecan you do that ?Jan 31 10:10
schestowitzI'm not sure what the intended effect isJan 31 10:11
schestowitzMarcusKoze: not easily, noJan 31 10:11
schestowitzIt's on a separate server/VMJan 31 10:11
MarcusKozeprobably just that, the background from the main page wrpapper sould overlap the one from the #headmenu divJan 31 10:12
MarcusKozeok Jan 31 10:12
schestowitzOh, I know what he meansJan 31 10:12
schestowitzJust cosmeticJan 31 10:12
MarcusKozeyeah Jan 31 10:12
MarcusKozebut also the semantics could be well improvedJan 31 10:12
schestowitzIt looks like a box on top of the backgroundJan 31 10:12
schestowitzI'm generally ok with that. I don't want to make yet another PNG (bloat)Jan 31 10:12
MarcusKozei hate those themes, made  by great designers, yet implemented by well... rookies in html/css codersJan 31 10:13
MarcusKozeno, no pngJan 31 10:13
MarcusKozeactuallyJan 31 10:13
schestowitzSee top of 31 10:14
MarcusKozethe div #headmenu height of 60px is ok Jan 31 10:14
phIRCe-BNcTitle: IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: January 29th, 2010 | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 99.28 KBJan 31 10:14
schestowitzThe caches pages will still show the top old banner with the exclamation markJan 31 10:14
MarcusKozeyou'd need a negative margin-top of 30px for the main content wrpapperJan 31 10:14
MarcusKozelet me see what id is that ...Jan 31 10:14
MarcusKozeaw lol, it's #wrapper :)Jan 31 10:15
MarcusKozethat one needs a margin-top: -30px Jan 31 10:15
MarcusKozein order to overlap top headmenu background and restore it to the original design intent of the theme author Jan 31 10:15
schestowitzI'm removing the thing that says: <em>Listed from October 23<sup><u>rd</u></sup> 2007 onwards, pingbacks and trackbacks (external) are omitted</em>Jan 31 10:15
MarcusKozei hope you understant what i mean heh Jan 31 10:15
schestowitzThat's over 2 years old :-) :-)Jan 31 10:16
schestowitzMarcusKoze: can I change that to -30 now?Jan 31 10:16
schestowitzAs I said, I can hardly test changesJan 31 10:17
MarcusKozeyesJan 31 10:17
MarcusKozewell Jan 31 10:17
schestowitzI made those changes a long, long time agoJan 31 10:17
MarcusKozeif you remove that old line of text, why couldnt you apply these changes too Jan 31 10:17
MarcusKozemy personal opinion i mean Jan 31 10:17
MarcusKozeit'd be nice to have the theme as smooth as the author intendedJan 31 10:18
MarcusKozeThese are the original css declaration (as they are now): Jan 31 10:19
MarcusKoze#wrapper { margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; width: 760px; background: #FFF url( repeat-y; text-align: left; } #headmenu { height: 60px; background: url( repeat-x; font-size: 1.0em; color: #333; } Jan 31 10:19
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 31 10:19
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 31 10:19
MarcusKozehere's what i'd suggest:Jan 31 10:19
MarcusKoze#wrapper { margin: -30px auto auto auto; width: 760px; background: #FFF url( repeat-y; text-align: left; } Jan 31 10:20
MarcusKoze#headmenu { height: 52px; padding-top: 8px; background: url( repeat-x; font-size: 1.0em; color: #333; } Jan 31 10:20
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 31 10:20
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 31 10:20
schestowitzok, let's try itJan 31 10:21
schestowitzOK, appliedJan 31 10:23
MarcusKozei still receive the old thingsJan 31 10:24
schestowitzI knowJan 31 10:24
schestowitzCacheJan 31 10:24
schestowitzLet's wait and see what happens when it expiresJan 31 10:24
MarcusKozeaw and i see the header image (the one with ballmer and hovsepian) is edited at the top, doesnt blend that well with the top Jan 31 10:24
schestowitzI used to have Firefox extensions for on-the-fly css changesJan 31 10:25
schestowitzDo you have it?Jan 31 10:25
MarcusKozeyou cutted it ?Jan 31 10:25
MarcusKozeyeah, firebug and web developerJan 31 10:25
MarcusKozecolorzilla, measureit etcJan 31 10:25
MarcusKozefrom my experiments, i think you;d better change that margin-top to -18px Jan 31 10:26
MarcusKozeinstead of the -30pxJan 31 10:26
MarcusKozebecause the header image with ballmer and hovsepian isnt blending as it should've with the top backgroundJan 31 10:27
MarcusKozesorry for that, from the first look it looked as if it'd overlap ok with tthe -30pxJan 31 10:27
MarcusKozeand well that should do it for nowJan 31 10:28
schestowitzOK, thanksJan 31 10:30
schestowitz#wrapper { margin: -18px auto auto auto; width: 760px; background: #FFF url( repeat-y; text-align: left; } Jan 31 10:30
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 31 10:30
MarcusKozeyup Jan 31 10:31
schestowitz"I think this website has a lot to offer, if only the content layout was updated. Example, very few of your readers are using 800x600 screen resolution, so you really don’t need to reduce the content to that screen resolution. The font size is a bit small, for your readers. Think of using Font size 14, it’s a standard too. "Jan 31 10:31
schestowitzThat layout if sillyJan 31 10:31
schestowitzFixed width, not liquidJan 31 10:31
schestowitzSame in my blog.. 31 10:31
phIRCe-BNcTitle:   .::. Size~: 44.24 KBJan 31 10:31
MarcusKozewe could sketch some neat simple and minimal layout if you wish Jan 31 10:32
schestowitzIt would spoil some older pagesJan 31 10:32
MarcusKozebut gee, i'm a very very minimal guy, must i warn you :)Jan 31 10:32
schestowitzSome depend even on the background colourJan 31 10:32
MarcusKozeok then Jan 31 10:32
schestowitzThat's why we never changedJan 31 10:33
schestowitzIt would leave older pages look worseJan 31 10:33
schestowitzSame with font sizeJan 31 10:33
MarcusKozewell, that sort of dependency isnt the right way to go Jan 31 10:33
MarcusKozehave some examples of such restrictions ?Jan 31 10:33
schestowitzSome content is build to accommodate fonts, such as images on the side that require enough text next to themJan 31 10:33
schestowitzTake this for example: 31 10:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Why Ubuntu GNU/Linux Should Not Make Microsoft Even Stronger | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 126.87 KBJan 31 10:34
schestowitzThe blockquote....Jan 31 10:34
schestowitzOOPS.Jan 31 10:34
schestowitzI mean, dropquoteJan 31 10:34
schestowitzIf the font is made too small, that makes a poor fitJan 31 10:34
schestowitzAlso, the backlground picture for these elements matterJan 31 10:35
MarcusKozewhats a dropquote ?Jan 31 10:35
MarcusKozethat quote from the end of the articel ?Jan 31 10:35
schestowitzHanging quotes on the sideJan 31 10:35
MarcusKozenot a native english speaker here :)Jan 31 10:35
schestowitzAnd hanging caps also rely on text size sometimesJan 31 10:35
schestowitz"Since the website is about the boycott of Novell (???), do we really need to see an advertisement placed above the content? That just looks cheap and it’s annoying, as the readers are already there viewing, and surely don’t need this reminder while on, right?"Jan 31 10:35
schestowitzThat's an obvious oneJan 31 10:36
schestowitzBut Shane created itJan 31 10:36
schestowitzA long, long time agoJan 31 10:36
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schestowitzI didn't feel it would be easy to remove thatJan 31 10:36
schestowitz"I hope you will NOT be offended to have a reader of the website provide you constructive criticism? In addition, there are few more thoughts I like to add and pass along, so that your effort is improved okay?"Jan 31 10:36
MarcusKozewell i'd agree with that one, that banners scratches my eyes Jan 31 10:36
schestowitzThis person has been helpful (like you!)Jan 31 10:36
schestowitzSent heaps of materialJan 31 10:36
schestowitzMarcusKoze: I removed that banner after wanting to do it for yearsJan 31 10:37
MarcusKozeyes, from the /?stories page Jan 31 10:37
MarcusKozebutJan 31 10:37
MarcusKozeit still shows in the detailed articleJan 31 10:37
MarcusKozepage Jan 31 10:37
MarcusKozeat least on my side hetreJan 31 10:37
MarcusKozeis it from the cache, or you havent got to edit the article template ?Jan 31 10:38
MarcusKozeuhm, it's wordpress as the blog engine, right ?Jan 31 10:38
schestowitz"It would be more helpful here to reduce the clutter, bloat whatever you want to call those advertisements. I’m referring about the huge RSS icon, and well, your predominately placed author photo block. It’s like a huge advertisement… almost as big as the main topic article! This is called a billboard, which actually reduces the content."Jan 31 10:38
schestowitzMarcusKoze: cause it's cached (main page)Jan 31 10:38
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schestowitzIt'll vanish (the banner) in the next updateJan 31 10:39
MarcusKozeroger that Jan 31 10:39
schestowitzI'm still waiting for CSS to expireJan 31 10:39
MarcusKozeyeah, well the guy has some points there, i must say Jan 31 10:39
MarcusKozethat theme is a bit uhm ... cant find the word ... busy, clutteredJan 31 10:40
MarcusKozeis that correct ? Jan 31 10:40
*ddddddds (~c096b146@gateway/web/freenode/x-qmajevuysevlbffh) has joined #boycottnovellJan 31 10:40
MarcusKozei mean a lot of stuff on too little space, could use some whitespace thereJan 31 10:40
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MarcusKozeif we'd disect the matter to that level :)Jan 31 10:40
schestowitzThe right-right side pane coule be used differentlyJan 31 10:41
schestowitz*couldJan 31 10:41
MarcusKozewell the theme itself actually seems to waste space with those pseudo-transparent blue rounded-corners boxesJan 31 10:42
MarcusKozeimo Jan 31 10:42
schestowitzI'm removing some :-)Jan 31 10:42
MarcusKozeclutters the whole sidebarJan 31 10:42
MarcusKozei didnt mean the content from the sidebar, but those bixesJan 31 10:43
MarcusKozeboxes*Jan 31 10:43
MarcusKozethat blue background Jan 31 10:43
MarcusKozelook, check the Journalist 1.9 theme Jan 31 10:43
MarcusKozethat'd be much betterJan 31 10:44
MarcusKozei used it for a personal blog (2 posts and it remained left in obscurity :) )Jan 31 10:44
schestowitzWe can hardly change themesJan 31 10:44
schestowitzToo much baggageJan 31 10:44
schestowitzI wanted to, trust meJan 31 10:45
MarcusKozeohJan 31 10:45
MarcusKozeok then Jan 31 10:45
MarcusKoze:-Jan 31 10:45
MarcusKoze:-?Jan 31 10:45
schestowitzI'm gonna make a cleaner sidebar :-)Jan 31 10:45
schestowitzYou make a good suggestion...Jan 31 10:46
MarcusKozebut what do you mean too myuch baggage actually ?Jan 31 10:46
MarcusKozetoo many widgets ?Jan 31 10:46
MarcusKozeroy, doesnt that cache expire when you edit some article or add new ones ?Jan 31 10:48
MarcusKozeyou could just edit and save some article to clear the cacheJan 31 10:48
MarcusKozethen access the homepage to regenerate the cache i guessJan 31 10:49
schestowitzI'm making some icons...Jan 31 10:51
schestowitzMarcusKoze: the "baggage" reference is posts I can't test with the new layoutJan 31 10:52
schestowitzLike.... sometimes I do things that assume the themeJan 31 10:52
schestowitzLike when I made a 'dropquote'Jan 31 10:52
MarcusKozeaw, ok i understand nowJan 31 10:52
schestowitzThen I need enough text to fill the restJan 31 10:52
schestowitzI know it's bad practice, but...Jan 31 10:52
schestowitzSometimes I see other people's site after they had changed themesJan 31 10:52
schestowitzIt looks OK.... for NEW postsJan 31 10:53
schestowitzThen in old ones you see charsets done wron^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HgJan 31 10:53
schestowitzAnd some stuff that doesn't come up looking perfect cause it was never seen under the new themeJan 31 10:53
schestowitzIn my own blog I have had the same theme since 2004Jan 31 10:53
schestowitzI was an early wordpress usersJan 31 10:53
schestowitzAnd I adapted my theme at the time to newer (proper) themes in WP laterJan 31 10:54
MarcusKozebut you could ask the readers help to spot those issues and report them Jan 31 10:54
MarcusKozei'm sure you'd get some help Jan 31 10:54
MarcusKozei would for sureJan 31 10:54
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schestowitzyes, that's what I do nowJan 31 11:03
schestowitzIn a way....Jan 31 11:03
schestowitzSee top right @ 31 11:04
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Turbolinux is History After Microsoft Patent Deal | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 105.21 KBJan 31 11:04
schestowitzI changed some stuff thereJan 31 11:04
MarcusKozehey, thats cleaner !Jan 31 11:06
MarcusKozegood one thereJan 31 11:06
MarcusKozethe RSS icon could go in that empty right-corner Jan 31 11:08
schestowitzI'll make the images smallerJan 31 11:08
MarcusKozeabove those caps you cleanedJan 31 11:08
schestowitzMarcusKoze: yesJan 31 11:08
schestowitzJust above recent postsJan 31 11:08
MarcusKozei was thinking in the top right cornerJan 31 11:09
MarcusKozeit's empty anyway Jan 31 11:09
MarcusKozeto the right of ballmer's image Jan 31 11:09
MarcusKozelet that rss icon haunt his existanceJan 31 11:10
schestowitzHeh.Jan 31 11:10
schestowitz<div id="rss">Jan 31 11:10
schestowitzYou can say I did this ages ago in a rushJan 31 11:10
schestowitzThe issue is, the div starts only right to the bodtJan 31 11:11
schestowitzROn and Steve are in the headerJan 31 11:11
MarcusKozei cant see the div id=rssJan 31 11:13
MarcusKozeawJan 31 11:13
MarcusKozenow i see it Jan 31 11:13
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schestowitzHmmmmmm... even images get cachedJan 31 11:18
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schestowitzOKJan 31 11:18
schestowitzcss cache expiredJan 31 11:18
schestowitzLooking excellent, MarcusKoze. Thanks so much!Jan 31 11:18
schestowitzTry 31 11:19
phIRCe-BNcTitle: | Truth about Novell, Mono, Moonlight, Silverlight and secret Novell pact with Microsoft. .::. Size~: 167.03 KBJan 31 11:19
schestowitzTo override cacheJan 31 11:19
MarcusKozeglad to help Jan 31 11:19
MarcusKozenice icons on the rightJan 31 11:20
MarcusKozefound no rss icon from the same set ?Jan 31 11:20
MarcusKozeeven if blue, but could be even nicer to be consistentJan 31 11:20
schestowitzthe icons are now 40x40Jan 31 11:21
schestowitzStill cached thoughJan 31 11:21
MarcusKozetried editing the last article ?Jan 31 11:21
MarcusKozejust open for edit, add a blank space and ... saveJan 31 11:22
MarcusKozemaybe that'd trigger the cache from the server to be purged and regenerated on the next accessJan 31 11:22
schestowitzIt won't work for the imagesJan 31 11:22
schestowitzJust WordPress cacheJan 31 11:22
schestowitzAFAIKJan 31 11:22
MarcusKozehmJan 31 11:23
MarcusKozewell, i think renaming the images (to the same name)Jan 31 11:23
MarcusKozecould purge the cache for imgs too Jan 31 11:23
MarcusKozebut that'd mean clicking on each and add some bl;ank char and save then remove that charJan 31 11:24
MarcusKoze:-?Jan 31 11:24
MarcusKozeeh, let it go naturallyJan 31 11:24
MarcusKozeby itselfJan 31 11:24
MarcusKoze that banner isnt out Jan 31 11:26
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Turbolinux is History After Microsoft Patent Deal | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 105.21 KBJan 31 11:26
schestowitz"Think when your driving out in the park, wanting to see the view, when it’s obstructed by a huge billboard, advertising the place you just left to escape!  LOL…"Jan 31 11:27
schestowitzMarcusKoze: yes, cause it's cachesJan 31 11:27
schestowitz*cachedJan 31 11:27
MarcusKozeyeah, but now overlaps the header image :)Jan 31 11:27
MarcusKozedue to that negative margin on the div #wrapperJan 31 11:27
MarcusKozetry that trick with renaming that bannerJan 31 11:28
schestowitz"Please consider present the articles with some modern order, thinking a time line would be useful on the top of your content…  That way, everything fits into it’s section. The website can link relevant material by additional categories, such as court cases, business partners and or associations, just anything that clarifies the information."Jan 31 11:28
schestowitzThat's what takes agesJan 31 11:28
schestowitzClassificationJan 31 11:28
schestowitzEven Groklaw struggled with it, and it has far fewer postsJan 31 11:28
MarcusKozehehe Jan 31 11:28
MarcusKozegood thing you got tags at leastJan 31 11:28
schestowitzIt's simple when sites are 5 pagesJan 31 11:29
schestowitzMany "online identity" sites are like thatJan 31 11:29
schestowitzSlap some theme, CMS, create some page, test, doneJan 31 11:29
schestowitzAnd then you do site: to find just about 20 pages indexedJan 31 11:29
schestowitzIt's different when there are tens of thousands of pages and no consistent CMSJan 31 11:29
schestowitzMy personal site has about 8 CMSsJan 31 11:30
MarcusKozewell, anyway, i strongly think that a restructures / redesigned site theme could help a lot in reorganizing stuff aroundJan 31 11:30
MarcusKozeand make things easier to access and so onJan 31 11:30
schestowitzA site theme would not addsemanticsJan 31 11:30
MarcusKozewell, add the semanticsa in the templatesJan 31 11:30
MarcusKozeand layouts filesJan 31 11:30
schestowitzMarcusKoze: I consider making CSS /options/ but it was tricky to implement, so I gave upJan 31 11:30
schestowitzIt also need cookiesJan 31 11:30
schestowitz*needsJan 31 11:31
MarcusKozehm Jan 31 11:31
MarcusKozei'll work on a minimal "theme" (blank html/css) , if you'll like it oki doki Jan 31 11:31
schestowitz"Also, the section regarding “If your new to this site” should be assumed everyone is, at least while on the introductory page, right? It would be helpful here to setup the argument against the enemy, be Microsoft or proprietary software."Jan 31 11:31
MarcusKozefluid / liquid layout Jan 31 11:32
schestowitzThe thing is, not many people visit the front page as new visitorsJan 31 11:32
MarcusKozewell i know that i only go directly to /?stories pageJan 31 11:32
MarcusKozeeverytimeJan 31 11:32
MarcusKozenever go to the wiki / root pageJan 31 11:32
schestowitz"Those pictures (motto icons) whatever their really called, don’t present the clear meaning behind the purpose. That’s been one of the evils of Linux, because all those geek names, weird names, doesn’t make sense to the general end user. "Jan 31 11:32
schestowitz"I realize you don’t come up with these names, so each one should have it’s own section, explain briefly in a sentence or two what it’s about, and then an explanation in greater detail in another section, that expands or something, etc…"Jan 31 11:33
schestowitzI guess I should change some linkage thereJan 31 11:33
schestowitz"Microsoft as you know, loves to FUD the public. That causes disinformation to be taken as fact. The free software movement, would advance more if people could relate more to their cause, by having a place to get the facts, without the FUD Microsoft PUSHES using their own propaganda! "Jan 31 11:34
schestowitz"Example, when purchasing a new PC, how many of those consumers are going to understand the difference between “open source code” from “evil proprietary code”?  Shouldn’t the customer and or consumers be part of the solution here as well?"Jan 31 11:35
schestowitz"Another point to make, the website is English only… Microsoft is a monopoly in NOT just English speaking countries, but also in just about all the countries of the world. So why shouldn’t your website educate the rest of the world, by reaching out?"Jan 31 11:35
MarcusKozehm, need translations ?Jan 31 11:36
schestowitzMaybe the front page (wiki) can be made multi-lingual with Google Translation links?Jan 31 11:36
schestowitzMarcusKoze: yes, at least ones of the explanation of why Novell is badJan 31 11:36
schestowitzIt's just a few sentencesJan 31 11:36
schestowitz 31 11:37
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Main Page - Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 22.88 KBJan 31 11:37
MarcusKozeyeah, well it'd use some human editing (mean the google translations, they tend to be gibberish blabber from Mars)Jan 31 11:37
schestowitzI guess if someone lands on the site and only comes to something in his/her language that's concise, it would be effectiveJan 31 11:37
MarcusKozesurely could help Jan 31 11:37
schestowitzI'll ask readers for translationsJan 31 11:37
schestowitzHold on...Jan 31 11:37
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schestowitzOK, that's done. 31 12:05
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Translations Needed | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 100.2 KBJan 31 12:05
schestowitz"Did you know Vietnam, has made it their official policy NEVER to allow Microsoft proprietary in any of their government departments or agencies! Vietnam supports “open source code” solutions instead! You could advance your campaign with their help. Vietnam doesn’t even need to reform proprietary software, it only needs to show how to USE “open source” software instead! Think about that, because in the U.S., the consumers Jan 31 12:06
schestowitzare still stuck on honey, as if like bees! "Jan 31 12:06
schestowitz"France and Germany are also firm believers in “open source software” too. So maybe, you will consider reforming the website, as a suggestion to include the help of other readers to make the website material available in their language too?"Jan 31 12:07
schestowitzI don't know if this is true about peru:Jan 31 12:07
schestowitzYou do know Microsoft is introducing “Starter Editions” in third world countries, aimed specifically at students, right? Microsoft is shaping the minds of their future customers. Even in places like Peru, were they bribe public officials, with lots of money, to get their software, such as Windows and Office into the schools.Jan 31 12:07
schestowitzOopsJan 31 12:07
schestowitzThe above is a quoteJan 31 12:08
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schestowitz> Another point, by selecting the title of the website as “BoycottJan 31 12:09
schestowitz> Novell”, why wouldn’t that come across to your readers as bashing orJan 31 12:09
schestowitz> hating Novell? Just imagine if there was on television an advertisementJan 31 12:09
schestowitz> saying Boycott China, or Boycott Obama! This is like showing the chickenJan 31 12:09
schestowitz> the axe! It doesn’t matter if the axe is for chopping wood, as theJan 31 12:09
schestowitz> chicken fears for it’s life!Jan 31 12:09
schestowitzFor historical reasons we're stuck with this online identity. I did not select the name.Jan 31 12:09
schestowitz"In truth, it’s NOT Novell, that should be the main focus, it’s the manner of how software is produced, distributed and sold, right?  Why shouldn’t the public be able to build upon their own culture’s heritage? It’s very common everywhere in the world, for all people to share something that is a benefit, right?"Jan 31 12:10
schestowitzHere's the part that resembles the RMS approach of US flag.... oh well.....Jan 31 12:10
schestowitz"The U.S. believes in public libraries, why shouldn’t software be included? Should public libraries be called munitions of mass infringement, being how their distribute copyright material to the public for FREE? How else is society to gain, if their education is restricted, limited and forbidden from learning? "Jan 31 12:10
schestowitz"If you haven’t read “How Big Media Uses Technology and the Law to Lock Down Creativity” by Lawrence Lessig, I have attached the article as PDF. Lawrence Lessig is a Professor of Law at Stanford Law School and founder of the school’s Center for Internet and Society. Prior to joining the Stanford faculty, he was the Berkman Professor of Law at Harvard Law School."Jan 31 12:11
schestowitzWhoa. He took offline it seems.......Jan 31 12:14
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 31 12:14
schestowitzI watched his talks before, but his Web site seems totally down at the moment after he had declared he would no longer update it.Jan 31 12:15
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schestowitz"However, when an individual denies the benefit to all of society, and builds an empire, as a monopoly, be software, land, water or food, that always leads to the exploitation of the people, by making them dependent. It’s no wonder why Microsoft Windows continues to decrease in affordability. Not only does the software cost more, but it requires the most expensive hardware to operate on, without prior legacy support. Microsoft Jan 31 12:16
schestowitzWindows isn’t an upgrade, it’s a REPLACEMENT! "Jan 31 12:16
schestowitz"Software or “code” MUST be innovated to improve, and there is no better method than to allow the people, the 6 billion minds to contribute, as a collective whole, in this effort. The U.S. as a comparison, is losing the advantage or edge it once held, by limiting its own development. While China is expanding and rising it’s power. "Jan 31 12:16
schestowitz"China has no real protection of intellectual property rights, or if you will, ownership restrictions. Instead, everything is the property of the State, the Communist regime. That’s NOT good, but it allows for everyone to contribute back, if even as cheap labor factory slaves."Jan 31 12:17
schestowitz"However, the U.S., in it’s acquisition of wealth (greed), has sought to outsource IT jobs, talents and students to Communist China, and other countries, in exchange for PROFITS! Americans are dumped, an they didn’t even resist! "Jan 31 12:17
schestowitz"As Microsoft expanded, so did they policies into laws, by making software ownership, thus creating pirates out of customers! "Jan 31 12:18
schestowitz""Embrace, extend and extinguish," also known as "embrace, extend, and exterminate," is a phrase that the U.S. Department of Justice found was used internally by Microsoft."Jan 31 12:18
schestowitz"Clearly the world needs Microsoft, because everyone needs suppression of choice, with a monopoly such as Microsoft, enforced by dubious business practices, tantamount to racketeering, resulting in buggy, insecure, bloated, overpriced software!"Jan 31 12:18
schestowitz"Novell isn’t the root, it’s only a branch, as a proxy for Microsoft! The only thing Microsoft has been good at, isn’t software, it’s been influencing how individuals fall for their disinformation."Jan 31 12:19
schestowitz'Désiré Athow wrote an article titled, “Microsoft's lawsuit payouts amount to around $9 billion” in which she wrote, “Though Microsoft is keen to emphasise the fact that they are not guilty of any wrongdoing in many of the lawsuits, they would prefer to pay rather than anything else. This has lead some observers to speculate that fines has been a way to "oil" the progress of Microsoft. Note also that no one has been Jan 31 12:19
schestowitzimprisoned and that apart from paying out huge amounts of money, Microsoft can carry on its business as usual.”'Jan 31 12:19
schestowitz"Is Microsoft against “open source code” or a supporter or hidden proprietary source code? You cannot be both! That’s like saying, Communist China is a supporter of human rights and liberty for all?"Jan 31 12:20
schestowitzHehe.Jan 31 12:20
schestowitz"If Microsoft wasn’t using proprietary hidden source code, would Novell be a threat? Maybe, the website is just afraid to point to Microsoft, just like asking to see the birth certificate from Obama?"Jan 31 12:21
schestowitzSome people are still on that topic, despite the fact that his certificate is shown... they fuel the anti-Obama folksJan 31 12:21
kecskebakObama might be a martian, but he was elected. More than Bush was...Jan 31 12:22
kecskebakNot that getting a Republican or Democrat makes any difference.Jan 31 12:23
kecskebakIt's misdirection - if people are talking about a birth certificate they're not talking about something that matters.Jan 31 12:23
kecskebakThe MSM loves to give people things to talk about so they don't talk about things that matter.Jan 31 12:25
kecskebakHas anyone read Stephen Fry's article in The Guardian about the iPad?Jan 31 12:30
kecskebakI can't believe he's the same Stephen Fry on the front page of the FSF.Jan 31 12:30
MarcusKozegot a link ?Jan 31 12:30
kecskebak 31 12:31
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] RD: @glynmoody: Facebook rewrites PHP runtime - to be released as open source #facebook #phpJan 31 12:32
kecskebakI wonder if he'll try and put gNewSense on it...Jan 31 12:33
kecskebakIf you need earplugs when you read Fry's love letter to the iPad, that probably the cognitive dissonance...Jan 31 12:34
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MarcusKozeok roy, got a draft of the Romanian translation for the text Jan 31 12:43
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kecskebakIf you had a friend who was a plumber, you would be upset if he couldn't fix your plumbing because the manufacturer would come and take it all away - unless of course the manufacturer Apple and you could wiggle your finger on it beautifully.Jan 31 12:43
MarcusKozei'm going to have lunch now, i'll send it after that 'Jan 31 12:43
schestowitzMarcusKoze: thanks.Jan 31 12:45
schestowitzkecskebak: did they mail one to him?Jan 31 12:46
schestowitzI thought he also abandoned the Internet (again)Jan 31 12:46
schestowitzFry I mean...Jan 31 12:46
kecskebakHe was at the launchJan 31 12:46
kecskebakHe's thinking of moving to the USA to be near to Hugh Laurie and his family, who he is very fond ofJan 31 12:47
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kecskebakI think Fry is a well meaning person, but I wondered whether he was the best person to promote the FSF at the time.Jan 31 12:49
kecskebakIf we all bought an iPad, mobile computing would become a miserable, claustrophobic, frustrating experience - and Fry is tech savvy enough to know that.Jan 31 12:52
kecskebakI spent ten years as a Flash developer, and one of the stars of that scene is a very talented guy called Keith PetersJan 31 12:53
kecskebakHe wrote a very popular iPod game, but his take on the experience is interestingJan 31 12:54
kecskebak 31 12:54
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Another year& | BIT-101 Blog .::. Size~: 47.26 KBJan 31 12:54
kecskebak"I love the platform and hardware and capabilities and even got to love the language. But I hate the business model and publishing stranglehold that Apple has on it."Jan 31 12:54
kecskebak"With the iPhone, I have to submit it, wait some unspecified amount of weeks with no feedback or anyone to communicate with, to see if it is approved or not. If not, no real recourse. Just fix it and put it back into the queue. It’s awful."Jan 31 12:55
kecskebakAnd the iPad is just as bad, if not worse.Jan 31 12:55
kecskebakSorry - I'm flooding the channel :-[ Jan 31 12:56
schestowitzNo, no..Jan 31 12:57
schestowitzIt's interestingJan 31 12:57
schestowitzFry is still a known personJan 31 12:58
schestowitzHis message there in isolation does show FS in the mainstreamJan 31 12:58
kecskebakBut FS for him is like Architecture or Watercolours for his friend Prince Charles - you dabble at it at weekends, but it's not something you'd do all the time.Jan 31 12:59
kecskebakOh yes, Free Software - I give gnewSense a spin on Sundays. Of course then it's back to the Mac for some proper computing.Jan 31 13:00
kecskebakI wish there was someone in the public eye who used GNU/Linux all the time.Jan 31 13:01
schestowitzquote?Jan 31 13:01
schestowitzNo...Jan 31 13:01
schestowitzI guess hypotheticalJan 31 13:01
schestowitz:-)Jan 31 13:01
schestowitzkecskebak: Dell messes with itJan 31 13:01
kecskebakNo - I'm just explaining the picture it puts over to meJan 31 13:01
kecskebakIt also is a bit odd that Defective By Design's iBad campaign is run by the same people who have Fry on their home page.Jan 31 13:03
Omar87Greetings all.Jan 31 13:07
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schestowitzwhat was the cause?Jan 31 13:26
schestowitzOmar87: can you provide an Arabic translation?Jan 31 13:27
MarcusKozeok, back Jan 31 13:27
MarcusKozeso how do you want it . by mail ?Jan 31 13:27
Omar87schestowitz: for what?Jan 31 13:27
*MinceR_ is now known as MinceRJan 31 13:28
oiaohmHmm how long after the quater does companies have to release there blance sheets.Jan 31 13:29
oiaohmIn the USA system.Jan 31 13:29
MarcusKozeOmar87: 31 13:29
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Translations Needed | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 100.27 KBJan 31 13:29
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MurlocHi peopleJan 31 13:31
MarcusKozehi there Jan 31 13:32
Omar87MarcusKoze, schestowitz: All of it?Jan 31 13:33
MarcusKozethat portion that's presented there, in the blue blockquoteJan 31 13:33
MarcusKoze Boycott Novell is a Web site that was conceived after Novell had signed a patent deal with Microsoft, an abusive monopoly. This deal was sought after by Novell and it has initiated:  A campaign of FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) against users and distributors of GNU/Linux. This is similar to SCO. Subsequent patent deals involving GNU/Linux, e.g. Linspire, Xandros, and TurboLinux Patent lawsuits against Linux (e.g. FAT/TomTom) Microsoft’s hijaJan 31 13:34
MarcusKozethis text :)Jan 31 13:34
MarcusKozethe idea is to present it in a native language to visitors, so that they are more comfortable understanding the message of the siteJan 31 13:34
Omar87MarcusKoze: I see. Oh. That's easy. I can provide an Arabic version. :)Jan 31 13:36
MarcusKozethat'd be great Jan 31 13:36
MarcusKozeschestowitz: how do you want me to send the romanian version ?Jan 31 13:37
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] UK Gov't Says "No Evidence" IE Is Less Secure - AKA UK Govt know fuck all about IT, except what MS tell them 31 13:38
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Slashdot Technology Story | UK Gov't Says "No Evidence" IE Is Less Secure .::. Size~: 146.61 KBJan 31 13:38
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schestowitzMarcusKoze: yes, please !!Jan 31 13:39
MarcusKozegot a mail ?Jan 31 13:39
schestowitzOmar87: just the introJan 31 13:39
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schestowitzroy at schestowitz dot comJan 31 13:39
MarcusKozeor hust paste it here ? how do you prefer ?Jan 31 13:39
schestowitz_Goblin: I'll be in Westminster tomorrow afternoonJan 31 13:39
MarcusKozeaw ok Jan 31 13:40
_Goblinany chance you can end up Colindale way?Jan 31 13:40
schestowitzI don't know how long filming will takeJan 31 13:40
schestowitzAnd I never carry a mobile, either (for personal reasons)Jan 31 13:40
_Goblinbelieve it or not, neither do I ....Jan 31 13:40
_GoblinI don't own one anymore...Jan 31 13:40
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oiaohm 31 13:44
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Sun Deal Complete, Oracle Says 'We're Hiring' &mdash; .::. Size~: 69.44 KBJan 31 13:44
schestowitz_Goblin: what are your reasons?Jan 31 13:47
schestowitzI am curiousJan 31 13:47
schestowitzyesterday I had this chat with some staff at the gym,re solariumJan 31 13:47
schestowitzMy mate there stop using the sunbedsJan 31 13:48
schestowitzCancer risks... now coming to phone as warnings as well... at least in 2 US statesJan 31 13:48
kecskebakI wish I could find the report I had about thatJan 31 13:48
kecskebakIt said it was dangerous for kids but not adultsJan 31 13:49
schestowitzI was gonna mention you...Jan 31 13:50
schestowitzYou're well informed about non-conventional research and reportingJan 31 13:50
schestowitzBut we disagree on climateJan 31 13:51
_Goblinschestowitz: Sorry, afk.... Colindale is very near where I work...Jan 31 13:52
_Goblinschestowitz: as I said on email im working the evening...Jan 31 13:53
MurlocMeh it's strange that Cannonical is now playing a different game after Mark stepped down as CeO.Jan 31 13:54
_GoblinIm sure youve named yourself after a WOW creature.Jan 31 13:54
MurlocWell yeah i did, my other username is Lich_king2 :PJan 31 13:55
MurlocIm an avid Warcraft fan (RTS)Jan 31 13:55
_Goblincool....Jan 31 13:55
_Goblinas long as you don't dress up like oneJan 31 13:55
_Goblinthat wouldnt be so good.Jan 31 13:55
schestowitzHeheJan 31 13:56
MurlocAnyway i recently finished my open source application :DJan 31 13:56
schestowitzWhich one?Jan 31 13:56
Murloc71 free programs included. ZeuAPPJan 31 13:56
schestowitz_Goblin: you know what the creature is called?Jan 31 13:56
schestowitzMURDOCH!Jan 31 13:56
MurlocAllows you to download 71 programs from simple interface :P. And that's why we have Fox TV.Jan 31 13:56
schestowitzIt fossilises you when it bitesJan 31 13:56
_GoblinI thought he was an a-team character.Jan 31 13:57
MurlocMeh that guy would sell his mom for a bag of money.Jan 31 13:57
schestowitzI don't know, _GoblinJan 31 13:57
schestowitzI played just the first two Warcrafts... a LOT!Jan 31 13:57
MurlocFirst 3  were  the best.Jan 31 13:58
_GoblinI prefered (in terms of RPG) Morrowind - Elder ScrollsJan 31 13:58
_GoblinEternal Lands though is a great free Linux RPG...Jan 31 13:59
MurlocAnyway my applications is currently for Windows only. Altough i have plans for Mac/Linux/BSD.Jan 31 13:59
Murlocapplication*Jan 31 13:59
MurlocIf people are damned to run it, then at least they can use OSS.Jan 31 13:59
oiaohmHopefully you used portable frameworks off the bat.  Murloc or it will be a pain in ass.Jan 31 14:00
_Goblinsorry, ive missed it...what app are we talking about?Jan 31 14:01
MurlocHere is the example of what im talking about: 31 14:02
phIRCe-BNcTitle: ZeuAPP | Zeusoft .::. Size~: 23.66 KBJan 31 14:02
_Goblinsort of like a software center for Windows? (similar to the Ubuntu one)Jan 31 14:03
MurlocYes.Jan 31 14:03
_Goblinah...Jan 31 14:03
_Goblingreat ideaJan 31 14:03
MarcusKozedoes it handle the updates too ?Jan 31 14:03
MarcusKozeof each app ?Jan 31 14:03
_Goblinprobably good idea to start with Windows....the brainwashed won't know whats available in the foss world.Jan 31 14:03
MarcusKozecould be handy Jan 31 14:03
MurlocYes.Jan 31 14:03
_Goblinwhat did you use to write the GUI?Jan 31 14:04
MarcusKozethats laudableJan 31 14:04
MurlocWhen you download the application, the installer auto-starts*Jan 31 14:04
MurlocI have in plan adding webstore, similiar to Ninite.Jan 31 14:05
MarcusKozewhat did you use to code the interface , as goblins asked ?Jan 31 14:05
_Goblinplease dont say c#Jan 31 14:05
_Goblin....Jan 31 14:06
MurlocIt isn't.Jan 31 14:06
_Goblinyay!Jan 31 14:06
MurlocIt's Visual Basic.Jan 31 14:06
EruaranhahaJan 31 14:06
MarcusKozeheheJan 31 14:06
_GoblinPython not viable?Jan 31 14:06
MurlocAltough i designed the overall aspects, the rest was done by programmers.Jan 31 14:06
_Goblinwould make cross platform far easier.Jan 31 14:06
MurlocI'll try to get on to translate it to python.Jan 31 14:07
_Goblinshouldn't be difficult....tkinter and suchJan 31 14:07
MurlocBut the main reason behind using VB is that the programs are for Windows installation.Jan 31 14:07
MurlocI would have to design a different version for both Linux and Mac.Jan 31 14:08
MarcusKozethey already have it (at least linux does)Jan 31 14:08
MarcusKozei have no idea about macsJan 31 14:08
oiaohmThere are many options todo many platforms at once MarcusKozeJan 31 14:09
oiaohmOpps MurlocJan 31 14:09
MarcusKozewell, a good app would be a universal installer for linuxJan 31 14:09
oiaohmUsing VB makes porting nightmares.Jan 31 14:09
MarcusKozeto bridge the gap between all those formats .deb, .rpm, .bin etcJan 31 14:10
MurlocWell im still open to ideas. Jan 31 14:10
MurlocMy first plan was to make this Windows Application Center.Jan 31 14:10
MarcusKozewell, i'm sure people would appreciate it Jan 31 14:11
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] What Makes #Hollywood Happy: #Microsoft Sues #BitTorrent Tracker for $43,000,000 31 14:11
phIRCe-BNcTitle: What Makes Hollywood Happy: Microsoft Sues BitTorrent Tracker for $43,000,000 | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 101.56 KBJan 31 14:11
MarcusKozejust well, i guess it'd be a good idea to work under a open-language, not micromofts Jan 31 14:11
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] I have just made changes to the site Boycott Novell in order to soften the appearance/messageJan 31 14:12
schestowitzWasn't there a x-platform realVB or somehting?Jan 31 14:12
schestowitzRealBasic maybe?Jan 31 14:12
schestowitzI think it's proprietaryJan 31 14:12
MurlocWell at the time we started making we only thought about finishing application.Jan 31 14:13
schestowitzMarcusKoze: at least that s/w spreads other software written in Free p/lsJan 31 14:13
MurlocBut yeah, we could get it written in Open Source Language.Jan 31 14:13
MarcusKozeyeah, the idea and the app looks decent and actually does a quite useful and comfortable job Jan 31 14:14
MurlocMy favorite package is TuxKart in Game category :DJan 31 14:14
MarcusKozemurloc: if you put some passion in this, you could get some fame there with itJan 31 14:15
MurlocAfter the comment and rating system is finished, will start porting it.Jan 31 14:15
oiaohmMurloc: If planing cross platform better to start cross platform so you don't have to rewrite code a much in future.Jan 31 14:15
MarcusKozecreate some community and bamJan 31 14:15
MurlocWell my main problem is that i really suck in marketing.Jan 31 14:15
MarcusKozebest marketing imo is by getting happy testers/initial usersJan 31 14:16
MarcusKozeif your toy is good and useful, it'll spread like fireJan 31 14:16
MurlocWell you need to get them first from somewhere:pJan 31 14:16
MarcusKozein the wildJan 31 14:16
MarcusKozeyeah Jan 31 14:16
MarcusKozefor example, we talking about it hereJan 31 14:16
MarcusKozei guess there's gonna be some blog posts about it :)Jan 31 14:17
MarcusKozesome links, mails etcJan 31 14:17
MarcusKozeso good thing, Jan 31 14:17
MurlocWell, Microsoft sure sended the email first.Jan 31 14:17
MarcusKozetake it easyJan 31 14:17
MarcusKozehum?Jan 31 14:17
MarcusKozewhat email ?Jan 31 14:17
MurlocThe BizSpark program.Jan 31 14:17
MarcusKozewhats that ?Jan 31 14:18
MurlocTheir so called help to open source programs/companies. No thanks.Jan 31 14:18
MurlocThat's like giving software rights for free.Jan 31 14:19
MarcusKozewell, i'd laugh my tears if some softie would talk about openes and honesty to me Jan 31 14:19
MarcusKozeyah right ...Jan 31 14:19
MurlocWell, they used pirated version of Vegas something when they made Windows XP sounds.Jan 31 14:20
Murloc 31 14:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Windows uses pirated software? | 1 of 14 .::. Size~: 59.33 KBJan 31 14:22
MurlocSonyVegas*Jan 31 14:22
MurlocAnyway back to topic. The main key of my application is that it's less then 1mb big, and yet it's usefull.Jan 31 14:23
MarcusKozeapplauds for that Jan 31 14:23
oiaohmMS would blame there our source supply again MarcusKozeJan 31 14:24
oiaohmOppsJan 31 14:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Jammed improperly where #Freesoftware is mentioned are references to proprietary traps from #Microsoft #vistaJan 31 14:24
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Readers Article: Microsoft and Google-Jamming | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 100.29 KBJan 31 14:24
MarcusKozescuse me oiaohm ?Jan 31 14:24
MarcusKozedidnt get that fullyJan 31 14:25
oiaohmWrong user MarcusKoze every time I want Murloc I am getting you when quick typing.Jan 31 14:26
MarcusKozeheheJan 31 14:26
MarcusKozeok Jan 31 14:26
MurlocOh well not so similiar names :PJan 31 14:26
oiaohmIt is if you brain is typing Mar<tab> instead of Mur<tab>Jan 31 14:27
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-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Heavy dinnerJan 31 14:32
MurlocStill does anyone think that adding comment/rating system would be a good idea?Jan 31 14:32
MarcusKozeyup Jan 31 14:32
MarcusKozecould help take decisionsJan 31 14:32
MarcusKozeboth of themJan 31 14:32
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MarcusKozerating for a quick view of how appreciated/ useful the soft isJan 31 14:33
MurlocTrue, altough mostly of software in is known.Jan 31 14:33
MurlocHell why not, it couldn't hurt.Jan 31 14:33
MarcusKozeand comments for reasons (one may not find someone else' bad reasons as bad)Jan 31 14:33
MarcusKozewell, i didnt know of VLC :)Jan 31 14:34
MarcusKozeand i use linux since 2004Jan 31 14:34
MarcusKozebut heck Jan 31 14:34
MarcusKozei just stuck with my faves Jan 31 14:34
MurlocIm thinking of renaming it from ZeuAPP to Windows Software Center.Jan 31 14:35
MarcusKozehm Jan 31 14:35
MarcusKozecheck for some trademarks firstJan 31 14:35
MurlocThe only thing that sounds similiar is Windows Media Center.Jan 31 14:37
MarcusKozewell you could do a quick search to see if anyting else resembles that notationJan 31 14:40
MarcusKozeor you could include the name Repository , to get people used to the terminology on LinuxJan 31 14:40
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @waldyrious How to Suck at Facebook 31 14:41
phIRCe-BNcTitle: How to Suck at Facebook - The Oatmeal .::. Size~: 16.56 KBJan 31 14:41
MurlocHmmJan 31 14:41
MurlocWindows Software RepositoryJan 31 14:41
Murlocsounds niceJan 31 14:41
MarcusKozeyeah, much better than their usual "Center" stuffJan 31 14:44
MarcusKozeimpoJan 31 14:44
MurlocYet im still wondering what to do about markething stuff.Jan 31 14:45
MarcusKozehm Jan 31 14:46
MarcusKozeis that site yours ?Jan 31 14:47
MurlocZeusoft?Jan 31 14:47
MurlocYeah.Jan 31 14:47
MarcusKozeor ... whats the situation ?Jan 31 14:47
MarcusKozeyesJan 31 14:47
MarcusKozeok Jan 31 14:47
MurlocFully mine.Jan 31 14:48
MarcusKozeso get a custom page / minisite for your app Jan 31 14:48
MurlocI already have page dedicated to it, altough i think you're think of something like site independent.Jan 31 14:48
MarcusKozepresenting various aspects : Features, ToDos/Future plans, Some reasons on why it makes things easier etcJan 31 14:49
MarcusKozewellJan 31 14:49
MarcusKozesome folder in thereJan 31 14:49
MarcusKozebut on the homepage of your site have some nice link / button with a short description for itJan 31 14:49
MarcusKozeand well ... SEO your site Jan 31 14:50
MarcusKozei mean Jan 31 14:50
MurlocI already done some configuration regarding that.Jan 31 14:50
MarcusKozemake it semantic, put the h1 tag first thing in your pages, make that unique, etcJan 31 14:50
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-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] seriously i should stop eating non-veg (aka: dead bodies credits: ryan) :PJan 31 14:52
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Why didn't Chewie get a medal at the end of ANH? #StarWarsJan 31 14:52
MarcusKozehaha you support IE ?Jan 31 14:52
MurlocI wish there was a course on how to promote software :pJan 31 14:52
MurlocThe site does.Jan 31 14:52
MarcusKozeyuch Jan 31 14:52
MurlocWhen i placed ,,We support'' i meant all browsers on which site works.Jan 31 14:52
MarcusKozei wouldnt stick that logo on my pages like ... ever... no way Jan 31 14:53
MarcusKozei seeJan 31 14:53
MarcusKozewell, thats just my personal rage against that crapware IE ... web dev you know ...Jan 31 14:53
MurlocI know IE6 sux :pJan 31 14:53
Murlocthat's why i have special suprise for those users :DJan 31 14:53
MarcusKozegot some screenshots ?Jan 31 14:54
MarcusKozei love to see funny ie traps :DJan 31 14:54
MurlocsecJan 31 14:55
Murloc 31 14:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 31 14:57
MarcusKozeforbiddenJan 31 14:57
MarcusKoze:-?Jan 31 14:57
MarcusKozewhat do you use to chat ?Jan 31 14:57
MurlocPidgin?Jan 31 14:58
MarcusKozei use pidginJan 31 14:58
MarcusKozeawJan 31 14:58
MarcusKozelets see if the transfer worksJan 31 14:58
MurlocIf you mean for IRC.Jan 31 14:58
MurlocsecJan 31 14:58
MarcusKozeyesJan 31 14:58
Murlocim gonna relogJan 31 14:58
MarcusKozedrag the shot hereJan 31 14:58
MarcusKozekJan 31 14:58
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Murloc1BackJan 31 14:59
MarcusKozekJan 31 14:59
*Murloc has quit (Quit: Page closed)Jan 31 15:00
Murloc1AnywayJan 31 15:00
Murloc1 31 15:00
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 31 15:00
Murloc1hmmJan 31 15:00
Murloc1i don't get it why it's forbiddenJan 31 15:01
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] I also noticed a single shot by Solo caused the stormtroopers to run like girls as the heros got split up in ANH. Some "elite troops" lolJan 31 15:16
MarcusKozehehe, trying the super tux kart game, seems hella'f a fun :DJan 31 15:16
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Stallman wrote for the college mag of NIT-Surat check out (via @debayan)Jan 31 15:17
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Golly is it time already for the "Ubuntu needs a TV advert" conversation again? 31 15:17
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Novell and Freedom Are Incompatible 31 15:19
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Novell and Freedom Are Incompatible | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 103.07 KBJan 31 15:19
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] The Chewie medal thing I could understand from the Empire, with a human-bias, but the rebels are supposed to be "every being, human & non"Jan 31 15:20
schestowitzMyfraudsoft: Jan 31 15:23
schestowitzhow do I write "Croatian"?Jan 31 15:23
schestowitz"Croatia (pronounced /kroʊˈeɪʃə/ ( listen), kroe-AY-shə; Croatian......."Jan 31 15:23
Myfraudsoftwait what?Jan 31 15:24
Myfraudsoftyou mean in Croatian?Jan 31 15:24
MyfraudsoftHrvatskiJan 31 15:24
schestowitzthanksJan 31 15:24
MyfraudsoftokJan 31 15:24
schestowitzMyfraudsoft: 31 15:26
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Hrvatski - Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 10.76 KBJan 31 15:26
schestowitzThis is a page anyone can modify.Jan 31 15:26
schestowitzIf you have pages in Croatian that you can write or legally drop in, feel free. These will get index heavily.Jan 31 15:26
schestowitz*indexedJan 31 15:27
schestowitzBut keep it polite, I can't checkJan 31 15:27
schestowitzOmar87: can you do Arabic for us?Jan 31 15:27
zer0c00lschestowitz: check out , stallman wrote for this college magazine :-)Jan 31 15:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Not a web page! Aborting application/pdf type .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 31 15:28
MarcusKozeSCHESTOWITZ : Omar said he'd do it Jan 31 15:28
MarcusKozetoday Jan 31 15:28
MarcusKozearh sorry about the capsJan 31 15:28
schestowitzMarcusKoze: 31 15:30
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Romana - Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 11.07 KBJan 31 15:30
schestowitzI tried to do the accents...Jan 31 15:30
schestowitzRomânăJan 31 15:30
schestowitzMediaWiki hates the accents in links/page titlesJan 31 15:31
MarcusKozeheh Jan 31 15:31
MarcusKozei didnt put those special characters in thereJan 31 15:31
MarcusKozethats why i called it a first draft, to be there (eligible anyway)Jan 31 15:31
schestowitzThanks a lot!Jan 31 15:32
schestowitzzer0c00l: nice!Jan 31 15:33
MarcusKozeschestowitz, is there some automatic redirect for the language selection / translation there ?Jan 31 15:34
MarcusKozeor those pages are there for static reference ?Jan 31 15:34
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zer0c00l:-)Jan 31 15:39
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_the_mad_hatter] Dad, I've run out of space on my hard drive. What were you doing? Oh, not much, just shooting some videos. Head-desk-head-desk...Jan 31 15:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Have given over the lounge to 4 chairs and some blankets for the kids to have a den. #fbJan 31 16:05
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mikeyc 31 16:10
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Was the earthquake in Haiti caused by the United States? [Voltaire] .::. Size~: 49.84 KBJan 31 16:10
schestowitzMarcusKoze: no redirect for translationJan 31 16:13
schestowitzmikeyc: I heard about that story from RussiaJan 31 16:14
schestowitzit's not confirmed that Chavez said such a thingJan 31 16:14
mikeycwhat do you mean?Jan 31 16:16
mikeycIsn't there news footage linked to the article?Jan 31 16:17
mikeycwrongJan 31 16:17
amarsh04schestowitz, I looked at just then and the page width doesn't fit on a 1024 * 768 screen - there is blank space at the left except at the top headerJan 31 16:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: | Truth about Novell, Mono, Moonlight, Silverlight and secret Novell pact with Microsoft. .::. Size~: 136.27 KBJan 31 16:21
Omar87schestowitz: Translation complete.Jan 31 16:22
schestowitzmikeyc: are you going to he Midland today?Jan 31 16:22
amarsh04btw, validates, but the css has errorsJan 31 16:23
phIRCe-BNcTitle: | Truth about Novell, Mono, Moonlight, Silverlight and secret Novell pact with Microsoft. .::. Size~: 142.35 KBJan 31 16:23
schestowitzOmar87: can you mail it to roy at schestowitz dot com ?Jan 31 16:23
schestowitzamarsh04: I knowJan 31 16:23
amarsh04ok, np... Jan 31 16:23
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Novell Loses Executive Vice President and Community Manager replacements are imminentJan 31 16:24
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Novell Loses Executive Vice President and Community Manager | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 103.85 KBJan 31 16:24
schestowitzIt's hacks for stuffJan 31 16:24
Omar87schestowitz: I just sent it, but I'm gonna send it again after I fix something in it. One minute.Jan 31 16:28
schestowitzYou can edit the wikiJan 31 16:29
schestowitzI just need to create the editable pageJan 31 16:29
amarsh04It took me ages to understand html because the earliest code I saw tended to omit closing tags and so I couldn't grasp the structure. It's great to be able to start with a clean design and keep it, but everyone seems to include hacks then are unable to escape themJan 31 16:30
Omar87schestowitz: Done! :-)Jan 31 16:32
schestowitzOmar87: 31 16:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Arabic - Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 11.6 KBJan 31 16:32
schestowitzIt's editableJan 31 16:32
schestowitzYou can add new pages to it as well, as in expand as you see fitJan 31 16:33
schestowitzOhJan 31 16:34
schestowitzWaitJan 31 16:34
schestowitzI'll put in the fixed versionJan 31 16:34
schestowitzOmar87: just add the stars to it: 31 16:36
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Arabic - Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 19.3 KBJan 31 16:36
Omar87schestowitz: Roy, can you put the previous version back please?Jan 31 16:37
Omar87schestowitz: I says I have not permission to edit pages.Jan 31 16:38
Omar87It*Jan 31 16:40
Omar87schestowitz: RTL support is problematic over here, to be honest.. :-)Jan 31 16:40
mikeycalready been ROy, i'm currently reading about Last week's Supreme Court ruling lifting limits on campaign financing by corporations members of Congress should now dress themselves in NASCAR uniforms indicating which corporations own them so that we don't need to bother researching the facts Jan 31 16:41
MyfraudsoftOk. I've just translated Mission page into Croatian.Jan 31 16:43
schestowitzOmar87: OK, let me tryJan 31 16:43
schestowitzI think I can get this right...Jan 31 16:43
Myfraudsoftbut I can't log inJan 31 16:44
Myfraudsoftsending via e-mailJan 31 16:45
schestowitzDoes the registration not work?Jan 31 16:46
schestowitzIt's not the same username as for the blog partJan 31 16:46
schestowitzThis one is separateJan 31 16:46
MyfraudsoftooohJan 31 16:46
schestowitzOmar87: it's almost OK: 31 16:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Arabic - Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 11.57 KBJan 31 16:46
schestowitzI hopeJan 31 16:46
schestowitzI need to go nowJan 31 16:46
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Omar87schestowitz:umm. No, it didn't get any better, sorry. :-)Jan 31 16:51
Omar87schestowitz: tytJan 31 16:51
Omar87schestowitz: byeJan 31 16:51
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] "Its difficult to get a man understand something when his salary depends upon not understanding it" - Upton sinclairJan 31 16:52
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Murloc1Im back peopleJan 31 16:57
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Murloc1We could translate boycot Novell in Serbian.Jan 31 17:15
Murloc1Or at least add Serb-Croat language.Jan 31 17:17
Murloc1Basically it's same language.Jan 31 17:17
Omar87Greetings all.Jan 31 17:22
Murloc1Hey OmarJan 31 17:23
Murloc1hmm? 31 17:24
Omar87Murloc1: yeah, he's a known troll.Jan 31 17:26
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Homeless donate $14.94 to Haiti #heroJan 31 17:37
phIRCe-BNcTitle: City homeless donate $14.64 for quake victims - .::. Size~: 119.06 KBJan 31 17:37
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DaemonFCeBay should ban 1 cent CDs with $6.99 shipping (Amazon does this too.)Jan 31 17:46
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DaemonFCI wonder if there's any type of deceptive advertising laws that apply hereJan 31 17:46
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] "A #kiss blown is a kiss wasted...the only real kind of kiss is a kiss tasted." ~ Unknown (via shivaranjan)Jan 31 17:47
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DaemonFCFocus on the Family is trying to run ads on the superbowl *barf*Jan 31 17:49
*amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04Jan 31 17:51
Omar87aaaah!!Jan 31 17:51
Omar87Those idiots at #Django are driving me nuts!! ><Jan 31 17:52
MarcusKozeschestowitz: still around ?Jan 31 18:17
Omar87MarcusKoze: no, he left.Jan 31 18:18
MarcusKozei seeJan 31 18:18
MarcusKozegot a quick link to the wiki formats / tags for his wiki engine ?Jan 31 18:18
Omar87NopeJan 31 18:19
MarcusKozeok , so i anyone else is interested in formatting tags / concentions for BN wiki engine: 31 18:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Help:Formatting - MediaWiki .::. Size~: 31.5 KBJan 31 18:21
MarcusKozeif*Jan 31 18:21
MarcusKozeand conventions* :)Jan 31 18:21
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rnbhelloJan 31 18:46
MarcusKozehello Jan 31 18:48
DaemonFC 31 18:51
phIRCe-BNcTitle: "Temporary" Protected Status for Haitian illegal aliens pushed by profiteers (Haiti earthquake) .::. Size~: 39.16 KBJan 31 18:51
DaemonFC"The word "temporary" is generally a misnomer as that status is renewed over and over."Jan 31 18:52
DaemonFCmmhmJan 31 18:52
DaemonFCmore Obama voters in 2010Jan 31 18:52
DaemonFC*2012Jan 31 18:52
DaemonFCI'm sure the plan is to keep renewing it til they can all just stay here foreverJan 31 18:52
DaemonFC"Obviously, he's either trying to mislead people or he can't think things  through. Many or most of the jobs they'd be doing would be jobs that  Americans who are drawing unemployment insurance could be doing, and  much of the labor those Haitians would be doing in the U.S. would be  heavily subsidized."Jan 31 18:56
DaemonFChehJan 31 18:56
DaemonFC"1/15/10 UPDATE: Janet Napolitano has now approved TPS,  but only for those illegal aliens who were here on Tuesday. How they'll  be able to tell isn't clear; some people will no doubt try to provide  fake documentation showing they were here at that time."Jan 31 18:57
DaemonFCIf we ask how long they've been here, they can just say they got here that day and challenge the government to prove itJan 31 18:58
DaemonFC"Haitians outside the United States should not misinterpret the Temporary  Protected Status (TPS) to believe that they can illegally attempt to  enter the United States. Those who enter illegally will be repatriated,  [Napolitano] said."Jan 31 19:00
rnbmeanwhile...Jan 31 19:00
rnbCanada is expediting immigration applications from Haitians with family in the country to help those affected by the Jan. 12 earthquake that struck the Caribbean nation.Jan 31 19:00
DaemonFCIf you get caught in the act we'll send you backJan 31 19:00
rnb“We anticipate there will be a number of new applications, which we will treat on a priority basis,” Kenney said.Jan 31 19:00
DaemonFCyeah, you can have all of them you wantJan 31 19:00
DaemonFCneed some more?Jan 31 19:01
DaemonFCrnb: Canada's government knows they won't get swamped because it would be kind of hard to get there by raftJan 31 19:02
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Shouldn't have mentioned Chewies medal, Lucas may make another edition to scam the fans. I hope he don't do, it's our only hope :/Jan 31 19:02
DaemonFCso they're being hypocritical and putting a program of expediting visas in place so they can badmouth the USJan 31 19:02
DaemonFCand not actually have to take that many Haitians in themselvesJan 31 19:02
Omar87rnb: do you know Django?Jan 31 19:03
DaemonFCI think the US should offer to send out Canadian immigration visa applications to all the Haitians hereJan 31 19:03
rnbhaha -> The U.S. military is gearing up for a possible influx of Haitians fleeing their earthquake-stricken country at an Army facility not widely known for its humanitarian missions: Guantanamo Bay.Jan 31 19:03
DaemonFCjust since you are all so kindJan 31 19:03
rnbthats not really that funny, but just goes to show US mentalityJan 31 19:03
rnbOmar87: i've used it but i'm not an expertJan 31 19:03
Omar87rnb: I see.Jan 31 19:04
DaemonFCrnb: No, we should totally send them Canadian visa applications, Mexico does the same thing with their undesirablesJan 31 19:04
DaemonFCthey give them maps to get into the USJan 31 19:04
DaemonFCand how to steal from our welfare when they get hereJan 31 19:04
DaemonFCwhat to say if stopped, etc.Jan 31 19:04
DaemonFCthey were caught red handed doing thatJan 31 19:05
DaemonFCwhere's the outrage?Jan 31 19:05
DaemonFCsince applying for Canadian visas is perfectly legal, I'd say we'rre actually just helping them navigate your system under my plan ;)Jan 31 19:05
_GoblinDaemonFC: I take it you don't have children.  I don't know about anyone else but if I saw a better life for my family in another country then I would do whatever it took to get my family there.Jan 31 19:06
DaemonFCnot encouraging illegal activityJan 31 19:06
MarcusKozegoblin: i concur Jan 31 19:06
DaemonFC_Goblin: If that country didn't adequately protect itself  and doesn't deport youJan 31 19:06
DaemonFCthen that's their fault I guessJan 31 19:06
_GoblinDaemonFC: but then can you blame anyone for wanting a better life for themselves?Jan 31 19:07
DaemonFCand I'm making the assumption you're not skilled and only plan to suck off their public safety netJan 31 19:07
DaemonFClike most illegal aliens hereJan 31 19:07
*Chips_B_Malry (~4731c09d@gateway/web/freenode/x-gnisqtlextensvwc) has joined #boycottnovellJan 31 19:07
DaemonFC_Goblin: I've never blamed the illegalsJan 31 19:07
_GoblinDaemonFC: again I repeat, my family is my first priority if needs must I would do whatever it took to care for them...Jan 31 19:08
DaemonFCI'm blaming our government for not protecting usJan 31 19:08
_GoblinDaemonFC: protecting? you make them sound like a virus.Jan 31 19:08
DaemonFCyou can't blame a fox for sneaking into the henhouse and chowing downJan 31 19:08
rnbPresident Hugo Chavez announced Monday that he would write off the undisclosed sum Haiti owes Venezuela for oil as part of the ALBA bloc's plans to help the impoverished Caribbean nation after the devastating earthquake.Jan 31 19:08
DaemonFCyou can put up some razor wire and try to shoot the foxJan 31 19:08
DaemonFC:)Jan 31 19:08
DaemonFCHaiti is more or less "welfare island" even when there is no emergencyJan 31 19:09
Chips_B_MalryDaemonFC>  the illegals are only doing what we would too if in their position.  You can't blame them for wanting to better themselves.Jan 31 19:09
DaemonFCthey depend on debt write-offs as their normJan 31 19:09
rnbyou can also blame the US government for the Haitian governmentJan 31 19:09
rnbsince the US government's interventionism in Haiti is what has created this absurd, mafia government in the first placeJan 31 19:09
_GoblinDaemonFC: if anyone is to "blame" its the governments of the places the immigrants are leaving, its them who are not looking after their citizens properly.Jan 31 19:10
DaemonFCChips_B_Malry: Like I said, you can threaten to shoot the fox coming for your chickens and put up razor wireJan 31 19:10
DaemonFCbut you don't blame the fox for wanting to eatJan 31 19:10
Chips_B_MalryThere are areas now in this country, like LA metro area, where you see store signs up now only in spanishJan 31 19:10
DaemonFCyou're just keeping it out of your livelihood Jan 31 19:10
Omar87_Goblin: HeyJan 31 19:10
rnbChips_B_Malry: there are all kinds of places like that near San FranciscoJan 31 19:10
DaemonFCit can go eat anyone elses chickens it wantsJan 31 19:10
_Goblinhi omar!Jan 31 19:10
DaemonFCand I don't care :)Jan 31 19:10
rnbChips_B_Malry: there ar certain cities where you really cant get by if you dont speak SpanishJan 31 19:11
DaemonFCif Canada puts out chickens for the foxes to eat, I say they're stupid for bringing down the ensuing mess on their systemJan 31 19:11
Chips_B_MalryDaemonFC> oddly enough, I do agree with you that the gov has not protected the lower middle class here from Nafta and the illegal situtationJan 31 19:11
DaemonFCbut OK, that's their country and they can manage it as stupidly as they want Jan 31 19:11
Chips_B_Malryin fact, the gov created the problemJan 31 19:11
DaemonFCChips_B_Malry:  NAFTA didn't help the mexican people, it helped Carlos Slim Jan 31 19:12
Chips_B_MalryTake countries like Britain, it takes a lot more to get citizenship there than hereJan 31 19:12
Chips_B_Malrymore yearsJan 31 19:12
DaemonFClike 1-2% of their population who were millionaires and now billionairesJan 31 19:12
Chips_B_MalryyesJan 31 19:12
DaemonFCMexio is as much of a third world country now as it was in 1994Jan 31 19:13
DaemonFC*MexicoJan 31 19:13
Chips_B_Malryso we are becomming a 3rd world country and soonJan 31 19:13
rnbthis is from today:Jan 31 19:13
rnbThe US military has halted flights carrying Haitian earthquake victims to the United States because of an apparent dispute over where seriously injured patients should be taken for treatment.Jan 31 19:13
rnbThere has been no indication that France, Brazil or other nations that have been accepting patients have disrupted their efforts.Jan 31 19:13
rnbhahah brazil out-shines the US once againJan 31 19:13
DaemonFCwe're pretty much there, mainly because we've outsourced so many skilled jobs, and then when those people tried to go find other work that paid less, they did OK for a while until we opened the immigration flood gats for those jobs tooJan 31 19:14
Chips_B_MalryDaemonFC> the gov has the power to stop illegal imigration if it wants too, real easy tooJan 31 19:14
rnba much poorer country but willing to take the hit of haitian immigrationJan 31 19:14
DaemonFCand of course there's been tons of unskilled jobs soaked up by illegal aliens for yearsJan 31 19:14
DaemonFCand getting worseJan 31 19:14
rnbDaemonFC: call the waaaaaaaaambulance.Jan 31 19:14
Chips_B_MalryThe gov can do it the same way they used to find most of the soviet spies during the cold warJan 31 19:14
DaemonFCwe're being victimized by our government letting foreigners sponge off the welfare system, and take all the work that was leftJan 31 19:15
rnbDaemonFC: waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah the immigrants are taking my job!!Jan 31 19:15
DaemonFCand I have every right to be angry at them for allowing itJan 31 19:15
rnbahahahJan 31 19:15
Chips_B_MalryThe soviets required most of their spies to work here and send the money backJan 31 19:15
DaemonFCyeah, but there's only going to be so many spiesJan 31 19:15
DaemonFCthere is no limit on how many Mexicans get over here and send their money backJan 31 19:16
rnbDaemonFC: would you like some more white whine?Jan 31 19:16
Chips_B_Malrysocial sercurity numbers data are sent in every quarter to the gov, and this was the way most soviet spies were caughtJan 31 19:16
Chips_B_Malryillegals could be caught by the same method, when u have a hundred using the same number, you know that only one might be legitJan 31 19:16
DaemonFCChips_B_Malry: So how come they could flush out Soviet spies but not illegal Mexican John Smiths using the same social security number on 12 factory workers in one Indiana facility?Jan 31 19:17
DaemonFCThey were looking for Soviets, right?Jan 31 19:17
DaemonFC:)Jan 31 19:17
Chips_B_MalryyesJan 31 19:17
Chips_B_Malryselective inforcement of the lawJan 31 19:17
DaemonFCthey've made it a policy of looking the other way when it's just unskilled Mexican illegal aliensJan 31 19:17
rnbthe US government created this mess, now they must deal with the consequencesJan 31 19:18
DaemonFCYeah, I've filled out the ICE forms whenever I suspect there's an illegal alien living near hereJan 31 19:18
DaemonFCone time I just waited until they threw a drug party and called the copsJan 31 19:18
rnbthe US wants the right to have the US Marines kidnap aristide and conduct an illegal coup in haiti Jan 31 19:18
DaemonFCthey all got arrested, haven't seen them sinceJan 31 19:19
Chips_B_MalryI am not actually for sending them all back.  But I do believe we should make our citizenship laws tougher, like Britian has.  We should give them at the border work papers to come across legally, unless they fail the criminal computer check.  Jan 31 19:19
rnband then they want to complain when the corrupt government they put into place didn't spend humanitarian aid on humanitarian projectsJan 31 19:19
DaemonFCbe diligent, wait for them to so something wrong, call the policeJan 31 19:19
DaemonFCworks at least half the timeJan 31 19:19
rnbso, the US was happy when they were illegally overthrowing haiti's government and stealing hundreds of millions of dollars from haitiJan 31 19:20
Chips_B_MalryBy the way, the military also exploits them,  if they enlist its an way to get citizenship and a green card nowJan 31 19:20
DaemonFCillegal alien signed upJan 31 19:20
DaemonFC;)Jan 31 19:20
rnbi support people who dont have citizenship status in the USJan 31 19:21
rnbi support groups that help them get by hereJan 31 19:21
DaemonFCfuck emJan 31 19:21
Chips_B_MalryI had the link for the military sign up awhile back and posted itJan 31 19:21
rnbDaemonFC: nothing you can do about itJan 31 19:21
DaemonFCrnb: You fund the coyotes?Jan 31 19:21
rnbDaemonFC: except complain in an IRC channel where no one caresJan 31 19:22
DaemonFCthe ones that leave them all in the desert to die?Jan 31 19:22
DaemonFCcoolJan 31 19:22
DaemonFCthat should teach themJan 31 19:22
rnbhaha, thats not how it usually worksJan 31 19:22
rnbevery single day there are hundreds/thousands coming here, perfectly safeJan 31 19:22
DaemonFCthe country is failing because of themJan 31 19:22
rnbthats not why the country is failingJan 31 19:22
Chips_B_MalryIf they come here with work papers, legal, at least they will have some protections from the corps that are exploiting them.  This could mean better wages for the rest of usJan 31 19:23
DaemonFCif we'd wake up and throw them all out, maybe we could get up for airJan 31 19:23
DaemonFCChips_B_Malry: rnb is helping them get exploitedJan 31 19:23
rnbyeah, thats gonna solve allll your problemsJan 31 19:23
DaemonFCif those companies had to pay them American wages and pay American taxes on them, there'd be no incentive to preferentially hire themJan 31 19:23
Chips_B_MalryDaemonFC> you miss the point, IMO.  the gov is never going to kick them all outJan 31 19:24
rnbThe Haitian regime imposed by the US repressed political activists, and thousands of people were killed either by occupying forces or by gangs operating under the authority of the new regime.Jan 31 19:24
Chips_B_Malryonce you accept that, it changes the debateJan 31 19:24
DaemonFCof course not, they let the problem fester and grow for so long that even the Republicans are kissing their asses nowJan 31 19:24
Chips_B_MalryyesJan 31 19:24
DaemonFCof course it's not going away, it's a terminal diseaseJan 31 19:24
rnbthe Republicans are the ones primarily responsible for illegal immigrationJan 31 19:25
rnbbecause they take bribes from corporations who want cheap laborJan 31 19:25
Chips_B_Malryno, I would say both partiesJan 31 19:25
rnbChips_B_Malry: i would say there's barely a distinction between the two partiesJan 31 19:25
DaemonFCdidn't Calderon say something about American politicians taking bribesJan 31 19:25
rnbthe US is a one-party oligarchyJan 31 19:25
Chips_B_MalryIn some places the illegal could actually voteJan 31 19:25
DaemonFCand that's why there's no border securityJan 31 19:25
rnbthere's no other objective way to describe itJan 31 19:26
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Chips_B_MalryI seen voter reg in the past where they only required a driver lic to sign upJan 31 19:26
DaemonFCChips_B_Malry: They can vote in some local elections in liberal towns and suchJan 31 19:26
DaemonFCbut not in any state or federalJan 31 19:26
Chips_B_MalrywrongJan 31 19:26
rnbit wont be long before there's no white majority in the US, and many regions in the US are like that nowJan 31 19:27
Chips_B_Malryif you can vote, at the county level, you can also vote at the state and fed level in most counties that I seenJan 31 19:27
rnbit cant happen fast enough, if you ask meJan 31 19:27
Chips_B_MalryLA is already a spanish speaking majorityJan 31 19:27
DaemonFCI will never speak SpanishJan 31 19:28
DaemonFCthey can speak to me in English or not at allJan 31 19:28
Chips_B_MalryWhere I am at, there are many new Mexican supermarketsJan 31 19:28
rnbDaemonFC: i'm sure they prefer not at allJan 31 19:28
DaemonFCthe best thing to do is for everyone to refuse to learn SpanishJan 31 19:28
DaemonFCanywhereJan 31 19:28
Chips_B_MalryI like them, the Mexican Supermarkets, they are kicking Walmart's buttJan 31 19:28
rnbDaemonFC: that wont happenJan 31 19:28
DaemonFCand refuse to teach in itJan 31 19:29
rnbDaemonFC: in san francisco, you cant even get a job as a manager at McDonalds if you arent bilingualJan 31 19:29
DaemonFCthat's not rightJan 31 19:29
rnbof course its rightJan 31 19:29
rnba manager has to be able to manage spanish-speaking employeesJan 31 19:29
DaemonFCobviously there should be a law to make English the only recognized languageJan 31 19:29
rnbthere wont beJan 31 19:29
DaemonFCand bar federal funds from being issued to fund illegal aliens in schoolJan 31 19:30
rnbthat wont happen eitherJan 31 19:30
rnbthe US is headed towards looking like all the other countries in the americasJan 31 19:30
rnbit's greatJan 31 19:31
DaemonFCthat we're being eaten aline?Jan 31 19:31
DaemonFCbuy these assholes?Jan 31 19:31
DaemonFC*byJan 31 19:31
DaemonFCwhy is it great that we're being overran?Jan 31 19:31
rnbwho is "we"?Jan 31 19:31
DaemonFCAmericansJan 31 19:31
rnbthey are also AmericansJan 31 19:31
DaemonFCno they aren'tJan 31 19:32
rnbpeople from South America arent Americans?Jan 31 19:32
DaemonFCthe ones that are American citizens are about 10% of the hispanic population in the United StatesJan 31 19:32
DaemonFCmost of them are not AmericansJan 31 19:32
rnbi think you mean "US citizens"Jan 31 19:32
DaemonFCand have no legal right ot be hereJan 31 19:32
Chips_B_MalryWell, the white populating here has a negative birth rate.  So yes, all the figures I have seen is that this county will become a spanish speaking county in the future.  And Europe, has the same problem, Many countries in Europe, will become Muslim in time.Jan 31 19:32
rnbChips_B_Malry: you are rightJan 31 19:32
DaemonFCthey should be forcibly expelled, just chain them upJan 31 19:32
DaemonFCmarch them back across the borderJan 31 19:33
rnbDaemonFC: wont happenJan 31 19:33
DaemonFCreturn to sendersJan 31 19:33
DaemonFCpostage dueJan 31 19:33
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NewsTechnica: Bank of England shocked to discover that just printing money doesn't work very well 31 19:33
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Bank of England shocked to discover that just printing money doesnt work very well | NewsTechnica .::. Size~: 40.14 KBJan 31 19:33
Chips_B_Malryaccept that it will not happen DaemonFCJan 31 19:33
Chips_B_Malryas I haveJan 31 19:33
rnbDaemonFC: yeah? what are you, pure-blood ancestry to the pilgrims or something?Jan 31 19:33
Chips_B_MalryIf I was younger like you DaemonFC, I would learn spanishJan 31 19:34
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Audit Commission's anti-Tory ‘plot’ - Times Online 31 19:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  Audit Commission's anti-Tory &lsquo;plot&rsquo; - Times Online  .::. Size~: 107.56 KBJan 31 19:34
DaemonFCfuck themJan 31 19:34
DaemonFCfuck their languageJan 31 19:34
rnbya yo hablo espanolJan 31 19:34
rnbtambem eu posso falar portuguesJan 31 19:34
DaemonFCI'll beat some English out of them, how's that?Jan 31 19:34
rnbDaemonFC: haha you wishJan 31 19:34
rnbthe average mexican day laborer would have you laid out before you even had a chance to put down your pop-tartJan 31 19:35
DaemonFCnot reallyJan 31 19:36
rnbbut hey, you sound more and more like a member of the aryan nation every dayJan 31 19:37
rnb"I'll beat some English out of them, how's that"Jan 31 19:37
DaemonFCwhy do you think I'm carrying when I go to the grocery storeJan 31 19:37
rnbbecause you're a pussy, who's scared of everything?Jan 31 19:38
DaemonFCthe government won't do anything about them attacking and mugging people in all kinds of formerly safe areasJan 31 19:38
DaemonFCI will if they come for meJan 31 19:38
rnbit sounds like the government needs to protect me from you, you sound like a nutjobJan 31 19:38
rnbtalking about beating people until they speak English to you?Jan 31 19:39
rnbyou should be in a court-ordered looney binJan 31 19:39
DaemonFCnot going to happenJan 31 19:39
Chips_B_MalryDaemonFC>  it could be far worse.  While I do not have anything against Muslems, would you prefer them to the Mexicans? Myself I look at Europe with its illegals, and I have to wonder with all the problems in Israel, if that is not coming there too.  Mind you, all the Muslims I have ever I have be impressed with.  So I am not trying to put them down Jan 31 19:39
rnbDaemonFC: it very well could, if you keep it upJan 31 19:40
rnbDaemonFC: you've already talking about how great you think the Virginia Tech shooting wasJan 31 19:40
rnbnow you are ranting about attacking immigrants and forcing them to speak EnglishJan 31 19:40
rnbyou sound like a threat to the communityJan 31 19:41
DaemonFCwell, I can sound like whatever I wantJan 31 19:41
DaemonFCuntil I've threatened to actually commit a specific crime, there's nothing that can stop me from saying whatever I pleaseJan 31 19:41
rnbsure, go aheadJan 31 19:42
Chips_B_MalryDaemonFC>  what you really want is for the standard of living to go up for the average american here.  Sadly I do not see this happeningJan 31 19:42
DaemonFCI can say the guy that committed the Virginia Tech shootings should be made into a national hearoJan 31 19:42
rnbkeep it upJan 31 19:42
DaemonFCthat's my freedom of opinion, you assholeJan 31 19:42
Chips_B_Malrykilling is wrongJan 31 19:42
rnbuh huhJan 31 19:43
Chips_B_Malryhurting people is wrongJan 31 19:43
MinceRif killing is wrong, what do you eat? :>Jan 31 19:43
rnbChips_B_Malry: you have to understand that DaemonFC is nerdy and sheltered and scared of black peopleJan 31 19:43
Chips_B_MalryMinceR> I meant killing "people" is wrongJan 31 19:43
DaemonFCMinceR: Meat is murder followed by vivisection carried out by an illegal MexicanJan 31 19:44
DaemonFCevery once in a while in a Walmart roast, you may get a thumb or somethingJan 31 19:44
DaemonFCrest assured that the meat packing plant "took care of" the guy that had the accidentJan 31 19:44
DaemonFClolJan 31 19:44
rnb*yawn*Jan 31 19:44
rnbschestowitz: seriously, DaemonFC ruins this channelJan 31 19:45
DaemonFCwaaaaaaaaaaambulance was it?Jan 31 19:45
rnbschestowitz: since he doesnt seem to work or do anything but sit his ass in front of the computer all day,Jan 31 19:45
rnbschestowitz: the channel is constantly filled with his racist misanthropyJan 31 19:46
Chips_B_Malryrnb> DaemonFC has at least improved vastly, before he was like this major windows shill.  So it does prove that he is coming around.Jan 31 19:46
MinceRif hurting people is wrong, what do you want to do about people who try to hurt you?Jan 31 19:46
rnbahahahahahaJan 31 19:46
rnbChips_B_Malry: good to knowJan 31 19:46
rnband a windows loser on top of itJan 31 19:46
DaemonFCMinceR: A true pacifist would just let themJan 31 19:46
rnbhahahahaJan 31 19:46
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MinceRjust let them do something that's wrong? :>Jan 31 19:46
DaemonFCyeah, what would they do about it?Jan 31 19:47
DaemonFC:)Jan 31 19:47
DaemonFCformally file a protestJan 31 19:47
DaemonFCask the police "You're not going to hurt him when you find him, are you?"Jan 31 19:47
DaemonFC"I hope you give him a nice stern talking to"Jan 31 19:48
Chips_B_Malryrnb> let people have food for thought, they will not always or mostly agree with you, but you plant the thought.  My thought to plant with DaemonFC today was this.  the gov is not going send them back, so move past thatJan 31 19:48
rnbself-defense is alright until you have some guy sitting in his mom's basement believing that people who speak spanish are "hurting him"Jan 31 19:48
MinceRbut what if he says that getting a stern talking to hurts? :>Jan 31 19:48
DaemonFCI'm not in anyone's basement, I am in "my" houseJan 31 19:49
rnbsure you areJan 31 19:49
DaemonFCit's as much "my" house as anyone in a mortgage owns theirsJan 31 19:49
DaemonFCMexico's primary export seems to be MS13 gang members smuggling drugs across the borderJan 31 19:51
DaemonFCour government doesn't even stop thatJan 31 19:51
Omar87DaemonFC: oh come on, drugs are good, ya know. :)Jan 31 19:52
Chips_B_Malryactually DaemonFC position on the illegals is not that extreme here, most republians want them expelled tooJan 31 19:52
rnbyou can blame the US government for that, DaemonFC Jan 31 19:53
rnbsince the US waged a war of terrorism on central america for the past 30 yearsJan 31 19:53
_Goblincan anyone recommend a MUD client here...currently using Gnome-Mud...not impressed.Jan 31 19:54
rnbyou can bet that a socialist El Salvador / Honduras / Guatemala wouldnt have allowed drug gangs like that to evolveJan 31 19:54
rnbin fact, MS13 uses the system of deportation to do their business for themJan 31 19:54
Chips_B_MalryCame here today, as I left a comment on Roys latest article with more Mini comment imformation, on the revenue for this quarterJan 31 19:54
rnbthe US government gives them a free plane ride back to Guatemala or wherever after they've done their business hereJan 31 19:55
rnbi personally know people who sneak into the US, do what they have to do, and then allow themselves to be caught by INSJan 31 19:55
Chips_B_MalryWhile I think there might be more cuts at MS, the date for those I am not certain anymoreJan 31 19:55
rnbso they can travel back home on an airplaneJan 31 19:55
Chips_B_MalryMS profits only increase by cost cutting (layoffs) methods anymoreJan 31 19:55
Chips_B_Malrythat is the hidden data to be gleened from the quartersJan 31 19:56
Chips_B_Malrybut since the MS lies of "best quarter" ever, its now hard to layoff people.  Also the Ballmer mindset come into play here.  He is in favor of "going down the field broadly."  Which means he does not like to cut projects, people, well thats another matter.Jan 31 19:58
Chips_B_MalrySo, cuts while coming, could be postponed until the bad data of next quarter, if Ballmer decides to do that.Jan 31 19:59
DaemonFCthe Mexican government's drug war was a nice surpriseJan 31 19:59
Chips_B_MalryBut then, Ballmer takes the chance of shareholder revolt, if next quarter is as bad as I think it is.Jan 31 19:59
DaemonFCit's causing all kinds of problems all the way up to Canada where cocaine is no a third more expensiveJan 31 20:00
Chips_B_MalryDaemonFC> the Mexican drug war is already here.  The gov just calls it gang warfare.Jan 31 20:00
Chips_B_Malrydifferent nameJan 31 20:00
rnbthe "Mexican drug war" ... what the hell is that?Jan 31 20:01
rnbyou mean Plan Merida?Jan 31 20:01
DaemonFCChips_B_Malry: I'd say that the states of Texas and California would be fully within their right to send out the national guardJan 31 20:02
DaemonFCto fight off these drug gangs in suburbia Jan 31 20:02
rnbor is this another topic you dont know shit about?Jan 31 20:02
rnbnobody wants thatJan 31 20:03
DaemonFCif I was the governor, I would order the national guard to do these raidsJan 31 20:03
rnbthe DEA needs to make their payoff moneyJan 31 20:03
*FurnaceBoy ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 31 20:03
rnbFurnaceBoy: !Jan 31 20:03
FurnaceBoyrnb: bom diaJan 31 20:03
rnbFurnaceBoy: hey!! Jan 31 20:03
FurnaceBoyrnb: tudo bem ai?Jan 31 20:03
rnbFurnaceBoy: your friend, jweyrich...Jan 31 20:03
mikeycLast week's Supreme Court ruling lifts limits on campaign financing by corporations...... Members of Congress should now dress themselves in NASCAR uniforms indicating which corporations own them so that we don't need to bother researching the facts.Jan 31 20:04
Chips_B_Malryanother posted comment at Mini's blog:  Jan 31 20:04
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Blogger: Mini-Microsoft - Post a Comment .::. Size~: 64.38 KBJan 31 20:04
rnbFurnaceBoy: ele estava me procurando e ele foi pra um outro canal de irc Jan 31 20:04
DaemonFCmikeyc: Thank youJan 31 20:04
DaemonFC:DJan 31 20:04
Chips_B_Malryquote:  " Anonymous said...      Nothing wrong with recognizing deferred revenue ... but I think the SLT is on some good drugs.      The ONLY part of the company that did well was Windows client. S&T was flat, online is further in the red, E&D went backwards. Yet the deputy buffoon, Turner, whoops about 'best quarter ever'.      With 80% of Client revenues coming from OEM, the increase in PC sales was the driver, not Jan 31 20:04
DaemonFCdeferred revenue should be banned by lawJan 31 20:05
rnbFurnaceBoy: onde eu ficoJan 31 20:05
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malry: yeah, reading minimsft one can only conclude the company is bound for an implosionJan 31 20:05
rnbFurnaceBoy: na outra rede de ircJan 31 20:05
DaemonFCbut in the grand scheme of business maneuvers that should be banned but aren't, deferred revenue is not that importantJan 31 20:06
FurnaceBoyrnb: entendiJan 31 20:06
FurnaceBoyrnb: pq?Jan 31 20:06
Chips_B_MalryDaemonFC>without deferred revenue, MS lost revenue almost everywhereJan 31 20:06
FurnaceBoyheheJan 31 20:06
DaemonFCrnb: What other IRC network?Jan 31 20:06
DaemonFC:)Jan 31 20:06
rnbFurnaceBoy: pq ele fez isso? nao seiJan 31 20:06
rnbugh, seriouslyJan 31 20:07
rnbDaemonFC makes me not want to come hereJan 31 20:07
DaemonFCrnb: vete a la mierdaJan 31 20:08
DaemonFC:DJan 31 20:09
Chips_B_Malryrnb> DaemonFC has some interesting comments too at time.Jan 31 20:09
MarcusKozewhats that , spanish or portuguese ?Jan 31 20:11
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: Yo quiero ser un gran traficante de drogas colombianoJan 31 20:11
DaemonFChmmmmJan 31 20:11
Chips_B_MalryMyself I have trouble understanding why codecs are things that impact the free running of the internet, are allowed by govs to be copyrighted and/or patented.  They should be placed immediately in the public domainJan 31 20:11
rnbDaemonFC: you are officially on /ignoreJan 31 20:12
*FurnaceBoy ta rindoJan 31 20:12
rnb12:09 Ignoring ALL from DaemonFCJan 31 20:13
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: What's so funny?Jan 31 20:13
DaemonFCWhy so serious? B-)Jan 31 20:13
Chips_B_MalryThe internet needs to run on free open standards, and codecs/multimedia extenstions have all been a way used by corps to try to harnish that which is free, into payJan 31 20:14
Chips_B_Malrytherefore, there should be a movement to make these public domain or even openJan 31 20:14
Chips_B_Malrycopyright infringers, or pirates if you want to call them that, have in fact (defacto) already in some ways made them the standard.  Jan 31 20:15
DaemonFCChips_B_Malry: The solution to proprietary codecs is already there, but big businesses back each other upJan 31 20:17
DaemonFC:)Jan 31 20:17
Chips_B_MalryI would actually say that the fight of "standards" needs to be carried even further into the MS api's.  The ones that run the software, that wine could useJan 31 20:17
DaemonFCthey're probably not even charging Apple or Google licensing fees because they want to format to get popularJan 31 20:17
Chips_B_MalryApple for that matter tooJan 31 20:18
DaemonFCApple actually owns a lot of MPEG-4 patentsJan 31 20:18
DaemonFCso they already have the rights to use that anywayJan 31 20:18
Chips_B_Malryand h.264Jan 31 20:18
DaemonFCa lot of DVD players will play DIVX/XVID but not h.264Jan 31 20:19
Chips_B_MalryApple also has cocoa, another way to make software that only runs on OS X, its like the windows api'sJan 31 20:19
DaemonFCI noticed I can use XVID with audio being AAC or MP3 or WMA on mineJan 31 20:19
DaemonFCyeah, Firefox had to reverse engineer some of that themselvesJan 31 20:20
DaemonFCand quartzJan 31 20:20
DaemonFC*Mozilla ratherJan 31 20:20
Chips_B_MalryDaemonFC> a lot of DVD players will play DIVX/XVID but not h.264---yes like PhilipsJan 31 20:20
Chips_B_Malryabout a 20% reduction is my guest for h.264 files sizewiseJan 31 20:21
Chips_B_Malry*guessJan 31 20:22
Chips_B_MalryThis is why its going take over, h.264 apple codec, its smaller to download.   and its already taken overJan 31 20:22
DaemonFCI still use xvidJan 31 20:23
Chips_B_Malryfor the most partJan 31 20:23
Chips_B_Malryxvid here tooJan 31 20:23
_Goblinand hereJan 31 20:23
Chips_B_Malrythere is a corruption in conversion of the h.264 filesJan 31 20:23
Chips_B_Malrywith many files that are h.264Jan 31 20:24
Chips_B_Malrynot allJan 31 20:24
_GoblinI don't see h264 as an issue...the "scene" is run by people who want their media to play in generic DVD machines....since h264 is not compat (with most), I can't see it getting a foothold.Jan 31 20:24
DaemonFCxvid is just better supported in software and hardwareJan 31 20:24
DaemonFCand both xvid and h.264 are not that different in qualityJan 31 20:25
_GoblintrueJan 31 20:25
Chips_B_MalryI have had to convert them first to Mpeg1 VCD with the r=30 command in ffmeg (command line only) and then the aviJan 31 20:25
Chips_B_Malryotherwise, I get a distortion in the video after conversion to play on a divx home player across the middle right bandJan 31 20:26
Chips_B_Malryyoutube is full of h.264 nowJan 31 20:27
Chips_B_MalryDaemonFC and Goblin>  look at coment #9  Jan 31 20:33
phIRCe-BNcTitle: How to convert multimedia files that most linux gui programs will not for 4 Divx play - MEPISlovers Forums .::. Size~: 116.21 KBJan 31 20:34
Chips_B_Malry ffmpeg -i yourfilename.flv -vcodec mpeg1video -r 30 yourfilename.mpgJan 31 20:35
Chips_B_Malrynever could get a direct to avi to work without the corruption, neither could I get the frontend programs like WinFF to convert even to mpeg1 vcd without corruptionJan 31 20:36
schestowitz Drop of waterJan 31 20:37
Chips_B_Malryh.264 with wierd 15 frame rate problem, leads to some video coruptionJan 31 20:37
DaemonFC 31 20:38
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 31 20:38
Chips_B_Malrybut that is sort of a work-around the problem, but have to convert twiceJan 31 20:38
Chips_B_Malryalthough mpeg1 vcd do play, they lose the ratio many times on the home divx playerJan 31 20:39
schestowitz 31 20:39
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Twitter / Daniel Devine: @schestowitz Lol. I'm sitt ... .::. Size~: 7.42 KBJan 31 20:39
schestowitzThis guy uses an avatar of him and Linus...Jan 31 20:39
Chips_B_Malrylater allJan 31 20:39
*Chips_B_Malry has quit (Quit: Page closed)Jan 31 20:40
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: hi Jan 31 20:41
schestowitzDaemonFC: stop being so racist Jan 31 20:41
schestowitzI've just caught upJan 31 20:41
FurnaceBoysighJan 31 20:42
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: that will have the same effect as yelling at the TVJan 31 20:42
schestowitzTomorrow I go London for filming of a documentary, so I need to prepare some notes... haven't done Linux news now for almost 2 days.Jan 31 20:42
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: DaemonFOX just says that to provokeJan 31 20:42
schestowitzHe wants to elevate his rating, like BeckJan 31 20:42
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: I know the typeJan 31 20:43
schestowitzI got some nice mail today...Jan 31 20:43
schestowitz> Aloha Roy,Jan 31 20:43
schestowitz> Thank you for responding back. I actually didn't think anyone or you would have actually responded, mostly because it takes a lot of time. I will keep this message short no worry. I was surprised to see how you responded back, using the same subject line, but I gather in that this is your method, sort like cut and paste, but with a macro? I think that is done because you must be using plain text viewing, right?Jan 31 20:43
schestowitzWith lots of picturesJan 31 20:43
schestowitzSomeone wants BN to do cartoonsJan 31 20:43
schestowitzI can't do good ones, thoughJan 31 20:43
FurnaceBoyw00tJan 31 20:43
schestowitzwallclimber might doJan 31 20:43
FurnaceBoythat would be neat.Jan 31 20:44
schestowitzShe does this professionallyJan 31 20:44
schestowitzLet me mail he quicklyJan 31 20:44
schestowitzWe need to have some help preparing friendly comical cartoon to explain the merit of Free/Open Source software?Jan 31 20:45
schestowitzSome people think so anyway.....Jan 31 20:45
schestowitz> As you might have noticed, my email was formatted using html, so it supports inline photos, and all the additional advantages.Jan 31 20:45
schestowitz> Another thought, would be to provide a who's who's data base, sort like China Vitae does... Take a look above (inline jpg) to get the idea, You can search for any Chinese public official, and get their biography. This could be of some help for the public to insure when they invest their money, which businesses are on the black list, for immoral or illegal behavior...Jan 31 20:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle: China Vitae : Biography .::. Size~: 5.37 KBJan 31 20:46
schestowitz> I'm sure Microsoft would loath the very thought of their public image on display, as it's normal for them to get the legal system having been found guilty to settle using NDA (non-disclosure agreements) so the public is not informed about the truth. That should be a crime against society, as why should the truth be hidden, and the lie rewarded?Jan 31 20:46
mikeychey royJan 31 20:46
schestowitzHe sent me screenshotsJan 31 20:46
schestowitzhey, mikeycJan 31 20:46
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: well all that is true. they hacked the system.Jan 31 20:46
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: Gates literally fought the Law and won.Jan 31 20:47
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: like some other recent anti-celebritiesJan 31 20:47
DaemonFC 31 20:48
DaemonFChahJan 31 20:48
DaemonFC 31 20:48
mikeycok then what are your thoughts on man made earthquKES?Jan 31 20:49
mikeyc:)Jan 31 20:49
mikeycdo they existJan 31 20:49
DaemonFC 31 20:49
DaemonFC 31 20:50
mikeycearthquakes that is, nikola tesla et alJan 31 20:50
*DaemonFC presses the "earthquake button" and aims for mikeycJan 31 20:50
DaemonFCIf we had an earthquake weapon, I could think of better places to fire it than HaitiJan 31 20:50
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] it'd be funny to see a "get Chewie a medal for the Battle Of Yavin" Facebook campaign site, to see how far and wide it gets mentioned lolJan 31 20:51
DaemonFCif we had an earthquake beam, wouldn't Chavez be too afraid to make an ass of himself?Jan 31 20:51
DaemonFC 31 20:52
DaemonFCthat's a good oneJan 31 20:53
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you have a wonderful knack of allowing the specific to forestall any consideration of the generalJan 31 20:55
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: it's an escape mechanism. one day you'll realise that.Jan 31 20:55
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: Would you....piss off...someone with a "earthquake beam"?Jan 31 20:56
DaemonFC:)Jan 31 20:56
DaemonFCyes/noJan 31 20:56
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: would you think about the context of Chavez [no] / [no]Jan 31 20:56
DaemonFCContext of accusing us of having an earthquake beam.Jan 31 20:57
*FurnaceBoy has other stuff to do. boa tarde!Jan 31 20:57
DaemonFCHe needs to be in a nuthouse?Jan 31 20:57
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: like I said, you allow specifics to short-circuit any actual reflection.Jan 31 20:57
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: I'm obviously not interested in discussing anything related with your typeJan 31 20:57
*FurnaceBoy wavesJan 31 20:57
DaemonFCso he comes out and accuses of of whipping out our earthquake beam to ravage a third world countryJan 31 20:58
DaemonFCand that's the part that stuck outJan 31 20:58
DaemonFC:DJan 31 20:58
DaemonFC*us ofJan 31 20:58
*FurnaceBoy ( has left #boycottnovell ("no mood for American idiots today, ate mais tarde")Jan 31 20:58
MarcusKozehey, does the color asigned to usernames have any meaning ? or just random ?Jan 31 20:59
MarcusKozei mean in the user-list Jan 31 20:59
DaemonFC 31 20:59
schestowitz> I just don’t like Microsoft, because of how they operate, by attacking open source software, calling it a caner, claiming it’s infringes upon their hidden code, etc…  I have attached an ebook titled “Barbarians Led by Bill Gates”, in case you haven’t read the inside story from within Microsoft.Jan 31 21:01
schestowitzWow!Jan 31 21:01
schestowitzDid anyone ever read it?Jan 31 21:01
schestowitzI'm looking through it nowJan 31 21:01
schestowitzWritten by W-E's daughterJan 31 21:01
schestowitzaggenerJan 31 21:02
schestowitzWaggenerJan 31 21:02
schestowitzThey spill the toilet on Bill GatesJan 31 21:02
MarcusKozehahaJan 31 21:02
MarcusKozecould you put it in the public domain ?Jan 31 21:02
MarcusKozeor is it so secret ?Jan 31 21:02
MarcusKozei'd like to see softers covered in shit (literaly)Jan 31 21:03
MarcusKozeschestowitz: will you ?Jan 31 21:05
schestowitzCOpyrightedJan 31 21:06
mikeycNo sheep Daemon?Jan 31 21:06
schestowitzSomeone mailed it to me without me askingJan 31 21:06
mikeycProcessed mindset?Jan 31 21:07
schestowitzBut he mailed me another juicy timeline he had preparedJan 31 21:07
schestowitzI'll post it next week sometime...Jan 31 21:07
MarcusKozekJan 31 21:07
schestowitzMarcusKoze: I can quote portions of the book (fair use)Jan 31 21:07
MarcusKozeoki doki, i'll wait for the posts :DJan 31 21:07
schestowitzW\ith reference to the book's outlets or whateverJan 31 21:07
schestowitzI'm preparing for tomorrow at the moment...Jan 31 21:08
schestowitz"We'll focus on gartner and try to challenge (with examples) their policy of "independence and transparency" as they advertise it on their website. That will lead us to the colfict of interest issue."Jan 31 21:08
DaemonFC 31 21:08
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Indiana carbon dioxide pipeline bill advances | | The Star Press .::. Size~: 50.88 KBJan 31 21:08
schestowitz"We'll come back to the Y2K issue where Gartner played a significant role. They gave the first cost-estimate that alerted the world. They established a ranking of countries more or less prepared to meet this challenge (some countries like russia and italy or india got very bad rankings but none of them failed). It will be another occasion to talk about gartner's interests and conflict of interest as well as the power they have to Jan 31 21:08
schestowitzspread fear among the IT world and beyond."Jan 31 21:08
DaemonFCPut it in a pipe and run it into rnb's house while he's asleepJan 31 21:08
DaemonFCsequester it in thereJan 31 21:09
DaemonFCB-)Jan 31 21:09
mikeycSorry but thats utter bollocksJan 31 21:09
schestowitzYou're upsetting people here, just like DiabloD3Jan 31 21:09
mikeycDaemonJan 31 21:09
mikeyc:)Jan 31 21:09
schestowitzHe's trolling againJan 31 21:09
schestowitzOff his pillsJan 31 21:09
MarcusKozeDaemonFC: coem on man, you used to be cooler than that Jan 31 21:10
MarcusKozewhats wrong with ya ?Jan 31 21:10
*mikeyc has quit (Quit: Page closed)Jan 31 21:10
DaemonFCsheep? electric sheep?Jan 31 21:11
*mikeyc (~5acc2346@gateway/web/freenode/x-heidfoxlpypoxqfr) has joined #boycottnovellJan 31 21:11
*DaemonFC waves his fingers in the air and shouts "I am not a sheep!"Jan 31 21:11
DaemonFCbaaaaaaaahJan 31 21:11
schestowitzamarsh04: are you sure he was cool? :-|Jan 31 21:11
schestowitzHe upsets a lot of peopleJan 31 21:11
schestowitzDeliberatelyJan 31 21:11
schestowitzAnd that's what makes it worseJan 31 21:12
schestowitzHe was banned from here for periods of time (cool-off time)Jan 31 21:12
mikeycwho wasJan 31 21:12
schestowitzDaemonFOXJan 31 21:12
schestowitzSometimes he was spreading a lot of hatredJan 31 21:12
MarcusKozehmJan 31 21:12
schestowitzBut he has been mostly better for the past few monthsJan 31 21:12
schestowitzNo ban in many monthsJan 31 21:12
schestowitzNot my choice, eitherJan 31 21:13
schestowitzPeople pressured for the banJan 31 21:13
schestowitzSo I could only upset someoneJan 31 21:13
mikeycis that the guy that thinks america has an earthquake 'beam', total fuckwit, it's based on resonance:)Jan 31 21:13
MarcusKozeschestowitz: do those colors from the users list mean anything or are they random ?Jan 31 21:13
schestowitzWe haven't had ops in this channel for monthsJan 31 21:13
schestowitzMarcusKoze: depends what s/w you useJan 31 21:14
schestowitzUsers don't have coloursJan 31 21:14
MarcusKozepidgin hereJan 31 21:14
DaemonFCmikeyc: Hugo Chavez is either paranoid delusional or just saying things he figures people in his country will believe and be afraid ofJan 31 21:14
mikeycya de yadaJan 31 21:14
DaemonFCthe USA is a political scapegoat tha he can make tons of biased political accusations against with not one shred of evidenceJan 31 21:14
mikeycand you just lorve their bananas?!Jan 31 21:15
DaemonFCand the world doesn't even ask him for any evidence, even with a claim this unbelievableJan 31 21:15
DaemonFChe forgave the oil debt to Haiti, he can just charge us more and make us cover itJan 31 21:15
DaemonFC:)Jan 31 21:15
DaemonFCaren't we nice?Jan 31 21:15
mikeycand imposed food debtJan 31 21:16
mikeycdependencyJan 31 21:16
*DaemonFC pushes the earthquake button a few more timesJan 31 21:18
DaemonFCI want to know how the earthquake button works so I can get oneJan 31 21:18
mikeycooh, that pesky earthquake buttonJan 31 21:18
DaemonFCdoes Mr. Chavez have any blueprints?Jan 31 21:18
mikeycmmmmmJan 31 21:19
DaemonFCcause the last one I saw, I was like 5 years old and in a children's museum on a field tripJan 31 21:19
MarcusKozehave a nice one everybody. and a chill one too (DaemonFC ...)Jan 31 21:19
*MarcusKoze (~marcel@ has left #boycottnovellJan 31 21:19
mikeycyou mean someone once took YOU to a museumJan 31 21:20
mikeyc:)Jan 31 21:20
mikeycwhat a wasteJan 31 21:20
mikeycver dismissiveJan 31 21:20
mikeyci imagineJan 31 21:20
DaemonFCleave it to American ingenuity to expand the earthquake machine I saw in the children's museum to a scale for 500 million or soJan 31 21:20
DaemonFCand somehow deploy it in HaitiJan 31 21:21
DaemonFCI mean that is impressiveJan 31 21:21
mikeycwhat from your childhood museum?Jan 31 21:21
mikeycwowJan 31 21:21
DaemonFCyeah, I assume that's the base technology that Chavez is talking aboutJan 31 21:21
DaemonFCI don't know how they got it installed under Port Au Prince and found a wall outlet big enoughJan 31 21:22
DaemonFCbut I am impressedJan 31 21:22
mikeyca wall indeed?Jan 31 21:22
DaemonFCoh yeahJan 31 21:22
mikeycis that how it works?Jan 31 21:22
mikeyctell me more mr earthq2uake?Jan 31 21:23
DaemonFCthe Americans had to build this really big house, so tall that it would almost strike the moonJan 31 21:23
DaemonFCjust to make a wall outlet big enoughJan 31 21:23
*oiaohm (~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovellJan 31 21:23
mikeycvery goodJan 31 21:23
schestowitzmikeyc: bears in mind that DaemonFOX never left north AmericaJan 31 21:23
DaemonFCthey plugged it into the living room you seeJan 31 21:23
schestowitz*bearJan 31 21:23
DaemonFCand flipped it onJan 31 21:23
DaemonFCand the power browned out across the world for well over half an hourJan 31 21:23
mikeyci gathered demons geographical limitationsJan 31 21:23
schestowitzHe can't see flawsJan 31 21:23
schestowitzI showed him a Pilger film on Guatamala... he was unmovedJan 31 21:24
schestowitzBut at the same time he rants about his governmentJan 31 21:24
schestowitzOver internal policiesJan 31 21:24
schestowitzNever foreign policiesJan 31 21:24
DaemonFCthey turned everyone's TV sets to CSPAN all at onceJan 31 21:24
DaemonFCso they'd flip them off and not notice the brownoutJan 31 21:24
mikeycwho, the earthquake people?Jan 31 21:24
DaemonFCyeahJan 31 21:24
schestowitzIOW, he wants his government to torture and mess up anything, as long as they are not white or somehtingJan 31 21:24
mikeycoh dearJan 31 21:24
DaemonFCRAND is in charge of itJan 31 21:24
schestowitzAnd they need to PRESS HARDERJan 31 21:25
schestowitzCause this way he gets MOREJan 31 21:25
mikeycDaemon, you ok?Jan 31 21:25
DaemonFCsureJan 31 21:25
oiaohmschestowitz: Something is getting me at moment I cannot find on any sharemarket site I know MSFT blance sheet, income statement or cash flow for dec 31 2009Jan 31 21:26
schestowitzI'm trying to be polite towards himJan 31 21:26
DaemonFCI uncovered the conspiracyJan 31 21:26
schestowitzIt's just that he's being rude to regulars here, not meJan 31 21:26
mikeycthis is all just vicarious, you do know that don't you, earthquake boy?Jan 31 21:26
schestowitzoiaohm: did you see Malroy's comments?Jan 31 21:26
schestowitzoiaohm: 31 21:26
phIRCe-BNcTitle: What Makes Hollywood Happy: Microsoft Sues BitTorrent Tracker for $43,000,000 | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 105.42 KBJan 31 21:26
mikeycdaemon, join inJan 31 21:26
DaemonFCwell, I want to go public and back up Mr. Chavez on the fundamental workings of his accusationJan 31 21:26
schestowitz"Jan 31 21:26
schestowitzAs MS continues to decline in profits they will become more disparate for money.  It is clear from a comment at Mini, the direction of things to come short term at MS:Jan 31 21:26
schestowitz 31 21:26
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Mini-Microsoft: Microsoft FY10Q2 Results .::. Size~: 141.99 KBJan 31 21:26
schestowitzQuote:  "Windows 7 was available for ordering in the first quarter of fiscal year 2010.Jan 31 21:26
schestowitzRevenue July--Dec 2008 was $31.7BJan 31 21:26
schestowitzRevenue July--Dec 2009 is $31.9BJan 31 21:26
schestowitzVirtually flat. We have launched a new operating system, and still making only as much revenue as during the recession season.Jan 31 21:26
schestowitzNow let us look at the net income equation.Jan 31 21:27
schestowitzIncome July--Dec 2008 was $8.54BJan 31 21:27
schestowitzIncome July--Dec 2009 is $10.23BJan 31 21:27
schestowitz"Jan 31 21:27
DaemonFCthe house with the wall outlet is still there, we just put a cloaking device around itJan 31 21:27
schestowitz"A growth of almost 20%. Where is this growth coming from? Cost cutting and layoffs. Expect more of what worked."Jan 31 21:27
mikeycEarthquake generation would be a fascinating topicJan 31 21:27
mikeycyou lead demonJan 31 21:27
schestowitz"Also expect more lawsuits for copywrite/patent infringement.  And how can you be sure, that MS will never sue individual user like the media companies have?  MS has data mined much of their software to phone home, including Windows and Office.  Its not like they do not have the data already who to sue.  "Jan 31 21:27
DaemonFCHAARPJan 31 21:27
mikeychaarpJan 31 21:27
mikeycbut you were so cynicalJan 31 21:27
DaemonFCJesse Ventura will tell you all about HAARP on TruTVJan 31 21:27
mikeycis it realJan 31 21:27
schestowitzRemember how the US sprays south Vietnam with chemicals 'after' the war..Jan 31 21:28
mikeycok i will tune inJan 31 21:28
DaemonFCmeh, they're there and doing somethingJan 31 21:28
schestowitzUnnecessary aggression that experimented (killed) with a huge number of civilian casualtiesJan 31 21:28
DaemonFCatmospheric research or whateverJan 31 21:28
DaemonFCsounds really boringJan 31 21:28
schestowitzThe Earthquake in Haiti was natural, but in general, unnecessary aggression is not unprecedentedJan 31 21:28
mikeycthe lord has spokenJan 31 21:29
DaemonFCso people turn it into an earthquake machine Jan 31 21:29
mikeycblame chavezJan 31 21:29
schestowitzDo you know the RISK of getting caught preparing such things?Jan 31 21:29
DaemonFCevery time the government doesn't explain away something, it's a weaponJan 31 21:29
DaemonFCa weapon of catastrophic sxaleJan 31 21:29
DaemonFCwe're building the Death Star up in AlaskaJan 31 21:29
mikeyc??Jan 31 21:30
schestowitzThey actually work in the US now on bombs that blur the gap between nuclear and conventionalJan 31 21:30
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] a Chewie medal campaign would be light hearted to see if we could get Lucasarts to do a post with picture "righting a wrong" on starwars.comJan 31 21:30
schestowitzI.e. escape Geneva conventions and nuke countries without it qualifying as nuclearJan 31 21:30
schestowitzThat's what I learned the other dayJan 31 21:30
schestowitzAbout Obama's budget......Jan 31 21:30
schestowitzHe cut off supply of money to space missionsJan 31 21:30
schestowitzI guess the new satellite wars might favour the ChineseJan 31 21:31
DaemonFCI don't see a conventional explosive that could match that kind of powerJan 31 21:31
schestowitzAlthough with satellites from China up there, we might see some high defect rates and big machines falling from the skyJan 31 21:31
oiaohmNow I know what the problem is.  (Unaudited) cannot be entered into sharemarket trackers 31 21:31
DaemonFChmmm, there's a group calling attention to the earned income tax creditJan 31 21:32
DaemonFCnot calling attention to its age discrimination thoughJan 31 21:32
DaemonFCyou can't file for it if you' under 25Jan 31 21:32
mikeychow does it discrimateJan 31 21:32
mikeycdiscriminateJan 31 21:32
oiaohmNow big question why in 31 days they could not got there reports Audited that is a big thing.  schestowitzJan 31 21:32
DaemonFCso 25 and over get their full refund, and under 25 can't get that partJan 31 21:32
DaemonFCit's their way of making 18-24 year olds in poverty go without $300 that they otherwise could have qualified forJan 31 21:33
DaemonFCwell, $300 to around $600Jan 31 21:33
DaemonFCit's not a lot but it could pay rent for 3-4 weeksJan 31 21:34
DaemonFCanyhow, I just never understood why they think 25 year olds and over need it, but not 34 year olds and underJan 31 21:34
DaemonFCEITC isn't even a welfare, it just gives back money you made that they tookJan 31 21:35
mikeycit's a good job we can show the path to the moral highgroundJan 31 21:35
mikeycare intellect and morality related?Jan 31 21:35
DaemonFCnot reallyJan 31 21:35
mikeycchav et alJan 31 21:35
mikeychorrible wordJan 31 21:35
DaemonFCthe fact that there is such a thing as nuclear weapons shows there there is no relationJan 31 21:36
mikeycbetween?Jan 31 21:36
DaemonFCpeople that intelligent have to know that they're turning the knowledge over and that it will be used for mass murderJan 31 21:36
oiaohmYou cannot say that.Jan 31 21:37
oiaohmnot with nukes at least.Jan 31 21:37
oiaohmAlbert enistine predected how nukes would be used.Jan 31 21:37
mikeycso we need to be dumbed down?Jan 31 21:37
mikeycto slow down the evilJan 31 21:37
oiaohmHe had the idea give people big and bigger bombs one day they would be too big and scary for anyone to use.Jan 31 21:38
mikeyca cul de sacJan 31 21:38
mikeyc goodJan 31 21:38
DaemonFCObama just got done giving the death kiss to NASAJan 31 21:40
DaemonFCit's just so far beyond disgustingJan 31 21:40
DaemonFCwe have money whenever millions of third world immigrants want to come here illegally and get whatever they want paid for in tax moneyJan 31 21:40
DaemonFCNASA doesn't cost half of thatJan 31 21:41
mikeycyeah i agree, just as well you got haitis interests at heartJan 31 21:41
DaemonFCthe "temporary" whatchamacallit does not benefit HaitiJan 31 21:41
DaemonFCat allJan 31 21:41
mikeycwith you humanitarean occupationJan 31 21:41
DaemonFCthere's still millions of people in tent vallages there even if they are that luckyJan 31 21:42
DaemonFCwhat this 18 month deal does is allow people that were here already to not worry about their violations of immigration lawJan 31 21:42
DaemonFCif they get stopped and asked about it, they can just say they came here the day after the earthquakeJan 31 21:43
oiaohmO by you got to be kidding me. The MS blance sheet for the quater numbers say its not it a 12 month blance sheet.Jan 31 21:43
DaemonFCthe ones we are taking in will never go backJan 31 21:43
DaemonFCthey'll just fan out across the other 49 statesJan 31 21:43
mikeycand you think by virtue of being in the lucky sperm club you are that much more worthwhileJan 31 21:43
mikeycsurely YOU cant be that conceitedJan 31 21:44
DaemonFCthe constitution says soJan 31 21:44
DaemonFCthe law says they are not welcome hereJan 31 21:44
mikeycthats ok thenJan 31 21:44
DaemonFCso we're making exceptions to the law and the cosntitutionJan 31 21:44
DaemonFCto overwhelm the country with an even bigger drainJan 31 21:44
DaemonFCI don't think that even Canada can be so damned stupid as to let anyone get a visa, bring no skills to Canada, and not have any guarantees about finding workJan 31 21:45
mikeycthan you?Jan 31 21:45
DaemonFC"No, we just want to live off your system"Jan 31 21:45
mikeycand you?Jan 31 21:45
DaemonFCWould Canada let in immigrants like that?Jan 31 21:45
MinceR 31 21:45
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 301 Found .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 31 21:45
DaemonFCIs Canada geared up to let in people who are net drain on Canada come in and live indefinitely?Jan 31 21:46
DaemonFCthat's what I want to hear right now. would they do it?Jan 31 21:46
mikeycI think a lot of these people are capable of working far harder than you might imagine>Jan 31 21:47
mikeycperhaps even more than yourself:)Jan 31 21:47
schestowitzoiaohm: audited by the SEC?Jan 31 21:47
mikeycand they are probably more compassionate.Jan 31 21:47
DaemonFCmikeyc: I wasn't planning on doing that kind of stuff anywayJan 31 21:47
DaemonFCand even if I did need to, then why let them take jobs that millions of Americans could be doing who are on unemployment right now?Jan 31 21:48
DaemonFCUntil there's enough for everyone that's here, why let more in?Jan 31 21:48
DaemonFCyou're talking about letting more people into a ship that is taking on waterJan 31 21:48
oiaohmI don't know the USA sharemarket audit requirements schestowitz.   Here its use a goverment and asx approved firm for auditing.  Does not cost much as long as you have all you paperwork in order.Jan 31 21:49
DaemonFC"When the jobs come back, instead of giving them to Americans who are unemployed, let's give them to illegal aliens and let our own people sleep on park benches and starve"Jan 31 21:50
DaemonFC"After all, leaving illegal aliens to starve and sleep on benches would be even more of a crime"Jan 31 21:51
DaemonFC:)Jan 31 21:51
DaemonFCmikeyc: If a man was threatening to kill a close family member of yours or a complete stranger, but let you pick, which would you choose?"Jan 31 21:52
DaemonFCYou can only let one of them live.Jan 31 21:52
oiaohmProblem I have with those MS numbers since they are not audited they can be doing a big E.Jan 31 21:52
schestowitzoiaohm: what I don't get is, how does Microsoft go forward comparing quarters y-2-y now?Jan 31 21:52
schestowitzThey basically shafted one for the otherJan 31 21:52
DaemonFCmikeyc: The problem you don't see is that sometimes we have to make choices like that.Jan 31 21:52
schestowitzDeferralsJan 31 21:52
DaemonFCnobody likes making a choice like that, but everyone would choose to save one of their own firstJan 31 21:53
schestowitzDaemonFOX is also against reparations for blacks who were once slavesJan 31 21:53
oiaohmschestowitz: No reporter worth there salt should have been reporting unaudited numbers.  They should have learnt there lesson from enronJan 31 21:53
DaemonFCthey're deadJan 31 21:53
DaemonFCthey don't need reparationsJan 31 21:53
DaemonFCthere are no blacks alive in this country who were slavesJan 31 21:53
schestowitzoiaohm: are Microsoft's other results audited?Jan 31 21:54
schestowitzoiaohm: MOST importanly, Microsoft's CFO QUIT last monthJan 31 21:54
DaemonFCso I refuse to entertain the thought that it's a legitimate issueJan 31 21:54
oiaohmEverything bar the last quater is yes.   schestowitzJan 31 21:54
schestowitzThis isn't some minor thingJan 31 21:54
oiaohmThat is the problem schestowitzJan 31 21:54
schestowitzMaybe GM needed a new cookJan 31 21:54
schestowitzOr maybe Microsoft's Klein doesn't know what he's doingJan 31 21:54
schestowitzThe replacement was a rush jobJan 31 21:54
schestowitzLiddell just fledJan 31 21:55
DaemonFCschestowitz: Maybe someone in your family was murdered 18 generations back, should you be able to sue his direct descendents living today?Jan 31 21:55
oiaohmLiddell fled audited books are even more important schestowitzJan 31 21:55
schestowitzYesJan 31 21:55
DaemonFCcan you?Jan 31 21:55
schestowitzoiaohm: can we defend and prove it?Jan 31 21:55
schestowitzI don't want to post speculationsJan 31 21:55
oiaohmI cannot find a audited version of the MS 4 quater results.Jan 31 21:56
schestowitzIt doesn't need auditJan 31 21:56
oiaohmThe bit I need answered is how late are they allowed to be for the MS stock exchange.Jan 31 21:56
schestowitzMicrosoft is above the law :0-)Jan 31 21:56
oiaohmIt cannot be submited to the stock exchange main record until it is.Jan 31 21:57
oiaohmAnd if you miss submitting company listing on the stock exchange can be frozon from trade.Jan 31 21:57
schestowitzNew page: 31 21:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle: IDC - Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 17.08 KBJan 31 21:57
oiaohmThis is why companies are normally not late submitting.Jan 31 21:58
schestowitzoiaohm: I think Novell had that issueJan 31 21:58
schestowitzIt risked delisting from the NASDAQ before the Microsoft cash infusionJan 31 21:58
oiaohmYep.Jan 31 21:58
schestowitzI think Novell had its thing delayed recently, againJan 31 21:58
schestowitzAnd the SEC gave it OKJan 31 21:59
schestowitzI wrote about itJan 31 21:59
oiaohmYet that will normally have a formal exention.Jan 31 21:59
schestowitzI operate on the assumption that fraud is prevalent thereJan 31 21:59
schestowitz"But everything is doing it," they sayJan 31 21:59
oiaohmOr changed to 12 month reporting.Jan 31 21:59
schestowitzThey just need to know how to hide itJan 31 21:59
schestowitzMicrosoft committed financial fraudJan 31 21:59
schestowitzIt bribed the whistleblowerJan 31 21:59
oiaohmOnce you are under a particular point of income on a stock exchnage you only have to report every 12 months to the stock exchange.Jan 31 21:59
oiaohmFrom Novells numbers they could be there.Jan 31 22:00
schestowitzBut we need more proofJan 31 22:00
oiaohmWhat we need is when is the last point you have to submit.Jan 31 22:00
schestowitzThis goes into IRC log, but this is not something I can back with testimony from insidersJan 31 22:00
schestowitzPeople are cowards, we need wikileaks backJan 31 22:00
oiaohmHere in australia its 30 days after the date the information is on schestowitzJan 31 22:01
oiaohmIe if it was here Ms would current be in breach.Jan 31 22:01
oiaohmUSA rules I don't know schestowitzJan 31 22:01
oiaohmFor sure it will not be more than the next report.Jan 31 22:02
oiaohmBut waiting 3 months before reporting on someone no doing there reports audited is a little too long to let it go.Jan 31 22:02
*Omar87 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Jan 31 22:03
DaemonFC 31 22:05
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] "writing this post from an NY-SF flight. Do you have any idea how many OPEN standards .. make this work?" @glynmoody 31 22:06
phIRCe-BNcTitle: What if Flash were an open standard? (Scripting News) .::. Size~: 9.56 KBJan 31 22:06
oiaohmschestowitz: The big thing that worries me this is the first time I know of that MSFT reporting has not been at the sharemarket before the data and audited.Jan 31 22:10
oiaohmdata/dateJan 31 22:10
DaemonFC 31 22:11
phIRCe-BNcTitle: pastebin - collaborative debugging tool .::. Size~: 17.66 KBJan 31 22:11
DaemonFClolJan 31 22:11
MinceR:)Jan 31 22:14
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New page with information about IDC, the analyst firm owned by IDG. additions welcomedJan 31 22:14
phIRCe-BNcTitle: IDC - Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 17.08 KBJan 31 22:14
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] So, #Adobe, do you have the cojones to #opensource #Flash? (@glynmoody) 31 22:16
phIRCe-BNcTitle: What if Flash were an open standard? (Scripting News) .::. Size~: 9.56 KBJan 31 22:16
oiaohm  GreatJan 31 22:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: gstreamer decoders [] .::. Size~: 21.4 KBJan 31 22:21
oiaohmWatch a video from a country that does not have to pay patents.  Since they did not licence and you are sitting in a country that has to pay patents you are now libibale for the patent licenceJan 31 22:22
oiaohmHow unfair is that.Jan 31 22:22
*Eruaran has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Jan 31 22:25
schestowitzoiaohm: we can keep it in mind and use this discussion in the futureJan 31 22:27
schestowitzBut I don't think we have a smoking gun just yetJan 31 22:27
schestowitzAnd I won't be catching up with Microsoft new before next weekendJan 31 22:28
oiaohmI just wish i could find the USA stock exchange rules.  So I know when we have a smoking gun.Jan 31 22:29
schestowitzDaemonFC: Indian farmers sometimes commit suicide tooJan 31 22:30
schestowitzDebt and MonsantoJan 31 22:30
schestowitzAnd they kill just themselvesJan 31 22:30
schestowitzoiaohm: go for it!Jan 31 22:30
oiaohmUSA stock exchange is someone in the size of a document to kill anything a printed copy landed on.Jan 31 22:31
oiaohmIs its rules.Jan 31 22:31
oiaohmNow finding particular ones is a pain in assJan 31 22:31
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Sorry, #Firefox, we've been together a long time, but you DO need an intervention on your bloat problem, even if many ppl won't mention it.Jan 31 22:33
schestowitzDid you ask PJ?Jan 31 22:38
schestowitzShe ought to know from SCO stuffJan 31 22:38
schestowitzpj2@groklaw.netJan 31 22:38
schestowitz 31 22:38
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DaemonFCschestowitz: It's not so much groups of people that I dislike as it is the groups that people have put themselves intoJan 31 22:39
DaemonFC:)Jan 31 22:39
DaemonFCas easy as it is to cry "Nazi Nazi Nazi!!!", it's harder to examine how people can come to the conclusions that have you simplifying them into NazisJan 31 22:40
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DaemonFCpeople that do the Nazi name calling usually do it because it's easier than to have a reasoned debateJan 31 22:41
DaemonFCso from there you get the TeabaggersJan 31 22:41
DaemonFCschestowitz: 31 22:42
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DaemonFCyou may like thatJan 31 22:42
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Reality is seeping into my dreams.Jan 31 22:43
DaemonFC"Here is a dirty little secret. Developing countries are only “Third  World” for the desperately poor (i.e. the majority.) The sliver of  wealthy people in these nations often live like kings. They have  privatized services  and are pampered in every imaginable way. They  frequently jet off to beautiful flats in Paris, New York and London,  while “the people” suffer in anonymity back home. While living in such  luxury, tJan 31 22:44
DaemonFCmy favorite bitJan 31 22:44
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@Vonster I could easily eat Indian food every day and never get tired of it. // how fortunate then, are the Indians!Jan 31 22:45
oiaohm  This is the rule set I am looking for but for the nasdaq  any ideas USA people what it would be called.Jan 31 22:45
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DaemonFCschestowitz: You get apartheid for the majority of Mexicans living in their own countryJan 31 22:45
DaemonFCthat's the disgusting partJan 31 22:45
DaemonFCthere's enough money in Mexico, it's just all at the very topJan 31 22:46
DaemonFCand that's what the Teabaggers are trying to get done in America, they just don't know itJan 31 22:46
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@crikey_news "wind power .. increased by 39%, bad news for people who want US to remain reliant on #oil" // 39% of nothing is still nothingJan 31 22:47
DaemonFCMexico will never improve as long as it's easier for the Mexicans to jump over a fence and come here and let their own country burn than it is to fix MexicoJan 31 22:48
DaemonFCif they couldn't all just flee here, there would be a revoltJan 31 22:49
DaemonFCthey would overthrow their governmentJan 31 22:49
DaemonFCand they would reform itJan 31 22:49
oiaohm  There page 27 is interestingJan 31 22:50
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oiaohmschestowitz:  There page 27 is interestingJan 31 22:51
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FurnaceBoyschestowitz: "The body scanners get all the media attention because of the sexual undertone, while the legalization of discrimination gets ignored. There is now [in the U.S.] an official policy of discrimination, of treating people differently according to their ethnic background, and there's no outcry.Jan 31 22:51
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DaemonFCthe backlash of tax cuts has already started here where I liveJan 31 22:51
DaemonFCthe politicians are taking it out on the poor and middle class by eliminating basic servicesJan 31 22:52
DaemonFCor charging more for what used to be available free to everyoneJan 31 22:52
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: Rebecca Solnit says in disasters, journalists often concentrate on crimes rather than the desperation behind themJan 31 22:52
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Bad press in Haiti: Why the focus on looting? - The Globe and Mail .::. Size~: 91.41 KBJan 31 22:52
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: I think just about anyone would loot given the chanceJan 31 22:53
DaemonFCshooting at the police is something elseJan 31 22:53
DaemonFCI'm not going to shoot a police officer so I can make off with a TV, for exampleJan 31 22:54
DaemonFCyou had that kind of shit going on during KatrinaJan 31 22:54
oiaohmschestowitz: Found it  MS has 45 days from the quater to do the report.  So 14 of this month.Jan 31 22:54
FurnaceBoyI've heard all your nonsense on this topic before, DaemonFCJan 31 22:55
DaemonFCthe news reports that, they're racist all of a suddenJan 31 22:55
DaemonFCso the liberals want the news to censor itselfJan 31 22:55
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you are completely ignorant of any way of life but your ownJan 31 22:55
oiaohmschestowitz: if they don't have a audited one by then they are how can I put it in trouble.Jan 31 22:55
DaemonFCfor racial sensitivity reasonsJan 31 22:55
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: take a few years off and leave the US, learn something about the world, before you judge itJan 31 22:55
oiaohmschestowitz: but they are ment to aim for 30 days.Jan 31 22:55
DaemonFCmindset of people probably doesn't changeJan 31 22:56
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: I'm giving you the benefit of that doubtJan 31 22:56
DaemonFCat a basic level we all just want to defend what's oursJan 31 22:56
DaemonFCtake the other guys stuff if he shows a weaknessJan 31 22:57
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: at a basic level we want to fracking EAT.Jan 31 22:57
oiaohmschestowitz:  Opps I am wrong.  its 35 days.Jan 31 22:57
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FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: go look up 'desperation' in a dictionaryJan 31 22:57
DaemonFCyou can't eat a TVJan 31 22:57
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: your own motives for looting, as detailed here, are not to eat; they are to steal. you're quite upfront about it.Jan 31 22:57
DaemonFCmaybe that would be a good title for a Katrina essayJan 31 22:57
oiaohmschestowitz: see you in 4 days time if it has not turned MS should have some problems.Jan 31 22:57
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: stop projecting your own fantasies on to starving HaitiansJan 31 22:57
DaemonFCHaitians were starving before the disaster, during the disaster, and will be after the disasterJan 31 22:58
DaemonFCit's just easier to loot when the police are tied down with other thingsJan 31 22:59
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: whatever you have to say about it is neither informed nor interestingJan 31 22:59
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: when I want blather from an ignorant, closed minded, privileged white schmuck, I'll ping youJan 31 23:00
DaemonFCtheir government is corruptJan 31 23:00
DaemonFCit's like Mexico only worseJan 31 23:00
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: yours is about as low on that scale as it's possible to go, so who's talking?Jan 31 23:00
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: I don't warm my hands over a trash fire and sleep in a box while 1% of the country really does have everythingJan 31 23:01
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oiaohmTV can tell you want is going on so you know were to go for food.  DaemonFCJan 31 23:01
oiaohmIts what you are planing to use the nicked item for is important.Jan 31 23:02
DaemonFCoiaohm: I need the 62" Plasma TV to monitor the Emergency Broadcast System....Jan 31 23:03
DaemonFC:DJan 31 23:03
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DaemonFCand to watch Leno make fun of the disasterJan 31 23:05
DaemonFCand to have leftist liberals criticize the government's lack of rapid response while looters were shooting the policeJan 31 23:05
DaemonFCand Pat Robertson blame anal sex and the pact with the devilJan 31 23:06
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schestowitzoiaohm: good jobJan 31 23:08
Omar87Hi all.Jan 31 23:09
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: your capacity for self-contradiction is amazing.Jan 31 23:12
Omar87FurnaceBoy: lol :PJan 31 23:12
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FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you admit that self-interest is ok in your own case, but never ok for those in far greater need than yourself.Jan 31 23:13
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: have you ever known hunger? lack of shelter? inability to obtain medical help?Jan 31 23:14
DaemonFCand you would say the same thingJan 31 23:14
DaemonFCand so would anyoneJan 31 23:14
DaemonFCquit being so high and mightyJan 31 23:14
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you project all your own irrationality on to othersJan 31 23:14
Omar87FurnaceBoy: agreed.Jan 31 23:14
DaemonFCschestowitz: I'm probably going to declare my candidacy for mayorJan 31 23:15
FurnaceBoyI hope it leaves you no time for ircJan 31 23:15
DaemonFCI have until April to be on the primary ballotJan 31 23:15
DaemonFCI think the entire town is fed up with our current oneJan 31 23:16
_Goblinthey would have to be.Jan 31 23:16
DaemonFCeven with his yard sign warchest, the town hates himJan 31 23:16
DaemonFCcan't keep fooling the voters forever I guessJan 31 23:16
_Goblinwell, thats one thing we can say about don't fool anyone.Jan 31 23:17
FurnaceBoyLOLJan 31 23:17
Omar87LOLJan 31 23:17
_Goblinwant me to run your campaign DaemonFC ?Jan 31 23:17
DaemonFCI'll probably run as a Democrat, they like me thereJan 31 23:17
_GoblinI'll stop you walking into traps like that one.Jan 31 23:18
Omar87DaemonFC: yeah... right. :)Jan 31 23:18
DaemonFCif not, then I'll run as an Independent Jan 31 23:18
_Goblinwhy not president?Jan 31 23:18
_Goblin4 years to prepare....Jan 31 23:18
DaemonFCwouldn't want toJan 31 23:18
_Goblinthats about enough time for you to decide what you actually believe.Jan 31 23:18
DaemonFCthe President has no real powerJan 31 23:19
DaemonFChe owes too many favors by that pointJan 31 23:19
Omar87DaemonFC: you should take on Mr. Obama in 2012. :PJan 31 23:19
DaemonFChis hands are tiedJan 31 23:19
_Goblinand if you were elected, that would probably be no bad thing.Jan 31 23:19
schestowitzOmar87: good ideaJan 31 23:19
schestowitzWith DaemonFC you know what you are gettingJan 31 23:19
DaemonFCI couldn't be any worseJan 31 23:19
_Goblinoh you could.Jan 31 23:19
schestowitzHe doesn't pretend too much. He just shows the inner monsterJan 31 23:19
DaemonFCObama is basically turning out to be BushJan 31 23:20
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: he'd have to fix thatJan 31 23:20
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DaemonFCand where he's not, hes as bad or worseJan 31 23:20
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: are you surprised? they have the same scriptwriters.Jan 31 23:20
sebsebseb Jan 31 23:20
DaemonFCBush didn't gut NASAJan 31 23:20
DaemonFCthat finished off Obama for meJan 31 23:20
FurnaceBoyyou think that even matters?Jan 31 23:20
DaemonFCit's like Obama might as well have said "I destroyed NASA and I'm declaring officially  that US innovation is dead"Jan 31 23:21
DaemonFChe may as well have fucking said that in his state of the unionJan 31 23:21
DaemonFCright there, those wordsJan 31 23:21
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: it died decades agoJan 31 23:21
DaemonFCnow we're going to dole out corporate welfare and even MORE MONEY than it would have cost to run ConstellationJan 31 23:22
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: the decline of innovation is the inverse of the rise of MicrosoftJan 31 23:22
DaemonFCyou do know that right?Jan 31 23:22
oiaohmNot really DaemonFCJan 31 23:22
oiaohmYou think about NASA if people die it a big PR nightmare.Jan 31 23:22
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schestowitz[23:20] <DaemonFC> Bush didn't gut NASAJan 31 23:23
oiaohmSlow and careful is better than fast and deadJan 31 23:23
DaemonFCwhy do you think corporate outsourcing of government programs could ever cost less, oiaohm?Jan 31 23:23
schestowitzNeil the astronomer talked about thisJan 31 23:23
schestowitzHe said the people associated Republicans with anti-scienceJan 31 23:23
oiaohmStrangely enough here in Australia it has in places.  DaemonFCJan 31 23:23
schestowitzDespite the fact they invest more in spaceJan 31 23:23
schestowitzJust because of Bush's Christian background and stance on environment and gene modificationJan 31 23:23
DaemonFCgovernment programs tend to be inefficient, but companies administering them create overhead and defraud the governmentJan 31 23:24
oiaohmMainly due to the fact of the Public sector union making it almost impossiable to fire anyone no matter how bad they screw up DaemonFCJan 31 23:24
DaemonFCso it's almost always worse to privatizeJan 31 23:24
oiaohmI guess you don't have a public sector union over there  DaemonFCJan 31 23:24
schestowitzLook what it did to British railJan 31 23:24
DaemonFCa lot of them are unionized, oiaohmJan 31 23:24
schestowitzIt used to be a prideJan 31 23:24
schestowitzFirst railway systemJan 31 23:25
DaemonFCmy aunt is in a union and works at a state prisonJan 31 23:25
schestowitzNow always late, considere clusteredJan 31 23:25
oiaohmyou want to work in the goverment you better own to the union here DaemonFCJan 31 23:25
schestowitzThatcher privatised itJan 31 23:25
oiaohmNow privates here can simple disreguard unions.Jan 31 23:25
DaemonFCoiaohm: Her stories from that prison have my position on sex offenders as "Once you do that, especially to a child, I don't CARE about your rights anymore"Jan 31 23:26
DaemonFCthey ought to make all of them stick a sign out in their yardJan 31 23:26
DaemonFC:)Jan 31 23:26
DaemonFCbefore they do that, the law should be changed so pissing outside is not a sex offense thoughJan 31 23:27
oiaohmit all depends what sector has a major union problem or not.  If you are in country where public does not have a union problem private is more expensive.  If you are in a country where private and public have union problems it a toss up.  If you are in a country where public has a union problem and private does not private is cheaper.Jan 31 23:28
DaemonFCoiaohm: The funny thing is that even though Indiana has public assistance programs, and the governor has no power to shut them down, he is the administrator of all state employeesJan 31 23:28
DaemonFCso he can just tell them to find ways to deny everyone for those programsJan 31 23:28
oiaohmSo what way is cheeper alters country to country.  DaemonFCJan 31 23:28
DaemonFCso he is telling the Medicaid program to deny everyoneJan 31 23:29
DaemonFCyou have to appeal that all the way into the federal courts before you might get itJan 31 23:29
oiaohmOne of the funniest here. Was goverment owned prisions with out source management.Jan 31 23:29
DaemonFCoiaohm: There was a prison takeover of an outsourced Indiana prisonJan 31 23:30
oiaohmTurns out they have the lowest reoffend rates.Jan 31 23:30
DaemonFCthe prisoners subdued the staffJan 31 23:30
DaemonFCheld them hostage for hoursJan 31 23:30
oiaohmSince they pay rates are linked to the reoffend rates.Jan 31 23:30
DaemonFCthe company running the prison fired most of the guards when they took it overJan 31 23:30
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oiaohmNot something you could normally do with completley private.Jan 31 23:30
DaemonFCso there wren't enough guards to stop the prisonersJan 31 23:30
oiaohmOur case here if that happens the management team is 100 percent libable with all there worldly assets.Jan 31 23:31
oiaohmNote I said out source management.Jan 31 23:32
DaemonFCthe prisoners couldn't get out though because the system was locked out by the staffJan 31 23:32
DaemonFCand it wouldn't open up for anyoneJan 31 23:32
DaemonFCheheJan 31 23:32
DaemonFCso they eventually surrenderedJan 31 23:32
oiaohmNot out sourced prision guards.Jan 31 23:32
oiaohmYes its one of those warped setups that is half goverment half private and manages to work well.Jan 31 23:33
oiaohmAnd its been looked at being done more here.Jan 31 23:33
oiaohmIe performance conidtions on management.Jan 31 23:33
DaemonFCoiaohm: Probably the only sane thing they did to that prison was allow the staff to initiate a lockdown modeJan 31 23:33
DaemonFCcause that's the only reason several hundred of them didn't escapeJan 31 23:34
oiaohmOur prisions here are kinda nasty.Jan 31 23:34
oiaohmLock down + sleeping gas.Jan 31 23:35
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DaemonFCsweet!Jan 31 23:35
oiaohmIf they are still inside building they are screwed.Jan 31 23:35
DaemonFCstaff have respirators I'm sure?Jan 31 23:35
oiaohmNot really.Jan 31 23:35
oiaohmStaff have to be rescued.Jan 31 23:36
DaemonFCugghJan 31 23:36
oiaohmSo there is no way for a imate to get hands on respirators.Jan 31 23:36
DaemonFCwell, I'd get down on the ground when the alarm went off thenJan 31 23:36
oiaohmThey are not there to get.Jan 31 23:36
DaemonFCbeats collapsing and hitting your head on somethingJan 31 23:36
oiaohmYep that is the training.Jan 31 23:36
oiaohmLock you self in a command room and slow down vents in there will by you some more time than every where else.Jan 31 23:37
DaemonFCI suppose there aren't any windows in that room?Jan 31 23:38
DaemonFCI might open the windows and block the ventsJan 31 23:38
oiaohmNo outside opening windows in the complete building.Jan 31 23:38
oiaohmAll air comes threw the vents.Jan 31 23:38
oiaohmAnd its fully designed that way.Jan 31 23:39
oiaohmEven more intersting is all water and waste pipes are on the outer wall of building.Jan 31 23:39
oiaohmAnd they have an isolated water supply system that if the gas fails the water can be tainted.Jan 31 23:41
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oiaohmLets put it this way Australian design jails are playing for keeps.Jan 31 23:42
oiaohmWe do get some excaped from the older designed jails that are being taking out of service.Jan 31 23:43
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oiaohmIts funny lot of cases the gas does not have to be used.  Prisions here the lock down and return to there cells and laydown.  For the simple point being man handled back to you cell kinda can leave you in a lot of pain. DaemonFCJan 31 23:45
DaemonFClmaoJan 31 23:45
DaemonFChere you'd get some ACLU assholes taking the side of a murderer/rapist that tried to attack a guard while the gas was taking effectJan 31 23:46
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DaemonFCfell and bumped his headJan 31 23:47
DaemonFCor somethingJan 31 23:47
oiaohmOnly worried about that.Jan 31 23:47
oiaohmFew guards got into trouble here because they cracked a guys skull with at table bolted to floor while man handling him back to cell.Jan 31 23:48
oiaohmNow the problem was they put in in the wrong cell.Jan 31 23:49
oiaohmThat was on the other side of the way when he was 1 foot from his cell door when he passed out.Jan 31 23:49
oiaohmIe miss read his number.Jan 31 23:49
oiaohmReason why it kinda can be ouch if they don't get back to there cell.Jan 31 23:50
oiaohmGuards putting you there in hurry are not always competent.Jan 31 23:50
DaemonFCthe biggest problem with prison is that it almost never rehabilitates because most people that end up there never learn their lessonJan 31 23:50
DaemonFCit just makes them more angry and spitefulJan 31 23:50
DaemonFCand possibly, shall we say, "religious"Jan 31 23:50
oiaohmProblem is creativity.Jan 31 23:51
oiaohmLike making charoal filters out of toast.Jan 31 23:51
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DaemonFCguy goes in there John Smith and comes out Muhammed Abu JihadJan 31 23:51
DaemonFC:DJan 31 23:51
oiaohmThe better you behave in australian prisions the better the rooms you get.Jan 31 23:52
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oiaohmAnd the more access to training and resources.Jan 31 23:52
DaemonFCmaybe he was just writing bad checks and now h'es a Muslim that picks up some rifles and starts sniping peopleJan 31 23:52
oiaohmWe have aborginals Muslims and whites in our prisions.Jan 31 23:53
oiaohmProblem is they all will kill enough other.Jan 31 23:53
DaemonFCIslam is mainly spreading in the US through prisonersJan 31 23:53
oiaohmHere most islam leaders in prisons don't last.Jan 31 23:53
DaemonFCit's targeting pretty much the worst people in societyJan 31 23:53
oiaohmthe natives get them.Jan 31 23:53
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @diveintomark "#Apple made..machines that made me who I am" thru ability to tinker //Closed toys like #iPad: WRONG WAYJan 31 23:54
oiaohmIslam 1 god nature is counter to native teaching here.Jan 31 23:54
DaemonFCthere's the Aryan Nations that takes care of some of themJan 31 23:54
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DaemonFCnot that I'd really say they're a lot better, but oh wellJan 31 23:54
DaemonFCenemy of my enemy and all thatJan 31 23:54
oiaohmBasically most of the white christians are smart enough to keep month shut about it.Jan 31 23:54
oiaohmI don't know what is wrong with the islam follows they think there god can protect them from everything.Jan 31 23:55
DaemonFCit spreads out of spiteJan 31 23:55
DaemonFCit gives them a sense of rejecting the system that caught and convicted themJan 31 23:55
oiaohmSame for the natives is there own religion.Jan 31 23:56
oiaohmIe we are the invaiders to be killed in there eyes.Jan 31 23:56
oiaohmislam is just a more determined invader. by there eyes.Jan 31 23:56
DaemonFCmost of the natives here don't have a revenge-oriented mindsetJan 31 23:56
oiaohmOurs do.Jan 31 23:57
DaemonFCpeaceful co-existenceJan 31 23:57
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] As #Mac hacker for 25 yrs, I'm with @diveintomark; #Apple's closed systems=bad thing 31 23:57
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oiaohmThinking some of there old punishments include offended party throwing spear into offender.Jan 31 23:57
oiaohmAnd the natives can choose to take the old punishments over whiteman law.Jan 31 23:57
DaemonFCI'm part Cherokee and part MiamiJan 31 23:57
oiaohmSo not spend time in jail.Jan 31 23:57
DaemonFCit's not enough to join either tribe thoughJan 31 23:58
oiaohmBut some cases jail is a lot safer than the old punishments.Jan 31 23:58
oiaohmThat is the big problem.Jan 31 23:58
oiaohmThey are basically dead to there tribe anyhow.Jan 31 23:58
oiaohmSo killing someone else is not a issue.Jan 31 23:58
oiaohmParticularly some invading shit head.Jan 31 23:59
oiaohmSince that might get them some forgiveness from there tribe.Jan 31 23:59
DaemonFCI would think it would be easier to co-exist in Australia anywayJan 31 23:59
DaemonFClots and lots of undeveloped landJan 31 23:59
DaemonFCso what's the problem?Jan 31 23:59

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