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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 22nd, 2010

Chips_B_Malroyas in cut them some extra slackMar 22 00:00
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy: You remember those Cheese and Chong moviesMar 22 00:00
Chips_B_MalroyThere are quite a few store signs in some parts of the greater LA area that are only in SpanishMar 22 00:00
DaemonFCwhere if the illegal Mexicans needed a ride back to Mexico they just turned themselves inMar 22 00:01
DaemonFCthen sneak back in laterMar 22 00:01
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Xbox 360 Dies Without a “Coffin” and #Microsoft ’s Other Hardware Endeavours Seemingly a Dead End 22 00:01
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Xbox 360 Dies Without a “Coffin” and Microsofts Other Hardware Endeavours Seemingly a Dead End | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 100.28 KBMar 22 00:01
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy quted ^^Mar 22 00:01
oiaohm  << schestowitz I see this as a card play.  Split internet side of china off into a independant company then do no more filtering in china move get banned from china then pick on google for not doing it.Mar 22 00:01
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft Vice President Quits in China, Others Do Too | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 95.5 KBMar 22 00:01
DaemonFCThe health care bill is 1,440 pages longMar 22 00:03
DaemonFCwonder how many wordsMar 22 00:03
DaemonFCit's more pages long than War and PeaceMar 22 00:03
DaemonFCI bet word-wise it's about 1,000 times longer than the US Constitution Mar 22 00:04
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Boycott Novell now has some Hunganrian content: 22 00:04
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Magyar - Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 14.44 KBMar 22 00:04
DaemonFCschestowitz:  How do you like that?Mar 22 00:04
DaemonFCPass the monster and then follow up with a diff patch :)Mar 22 00:04
DaemonFCI bet by that point they'll get some Republican votesMar 22 00:05
Chips_B_MalroyRoy, I seen a comment at mini's that sugguested that the rash of management leaving Redmond, might have something to do with Bill Gates coming back to replace Ballmer.  It said that the ones leaving were the loyal ones to Gates, and Ballmer wanted to get rid of them before Gates thought about coming back.  How true, don't know.Mar 22 00:05
oiaohmCover mask Chips_B_MalroyMar 22 00:06
oiaohmWhy shutdown full divistions if you just wanted to get rid of staff.Mar 22 00:07
Chips_B_MalroyI guess the products of those divisions were not going be profitableMar 22 00:09
oiaohmYep.Mar 22 00:09
oiaohmAnd when you kill divisions you normally have left over staff you have to do something with.Mar 22 00:10
oiaohmEither fire or create new divisions that are going to work.Mar 22 00:10
oiaohmThere are a lot of MS bosters who are trying to come up for any reason to explain away what is going on.Mar 22 00:11
Chips_B_Malroyor put more people into exsisting divisions to speed up productsMar 22 00:11
oiaohmNormally does not work with people who have been heads of divisions.Mar 22 00:11
oiaohmthey normally don't go back to being a person taking orders too well.Mar 22 00:11
oiaohmAlso if you follow lot of the upper staff leaving in a short time the division they were leading is no more.Mar 22 00:12
Chips_B_Malroybut not all of these are divisions being shut down, some of the departures are differnetMar 22 00:12
oiaohmLot of the departures are pre death of divisions.Mar 22 00:13
Chips_B_MalroyyesMar 22 00:13
Chips_B_MalroyMS continues to cutMar 22 00:13
oiaohmWhat is normal division leads normally see the axe coming.Mar 22 00:13
oiaohmThen there have been some stragitic transfers of staff.Mar 22 00:14
Chips_B_Malroyexpecting that MS cannot hide or sin next quarters results like they did this oneMar 22 00:14
Chips_B_Malroy\*spinMar 22 00:14
oiaohmOnce you take away staff gone from death of divisionsMar 22 00:15
oiaohmAnd tatical transfersMar 22 00:15
oiaohmThere is really not that many staff leaving MS.Mar 22 00:15
oiaohmSo the argument to get rid of staff who like bill gates really does not add up.Mar 22 00:16
Chips_B_MalroyI see your point, but not so sure it did not have any meritMar 22 00:16
Chips_B_Malroyalthough, myself, I do not see a parting of the ways between Ballmer and Gates eitherMar 22 00:17
oiaohmIf it had merit you would expect some staff in working divisions to be no more as well.Mar 22 00:17
Chips_B_Malroyto me, Ballmer and Gates are sort of like Model T's. the parts are interchangable.Mar 22 00:18
oiaohmand not having a tatical transfer lined up.Mar 22 00:18
oiaohmBasically the staff gone don't match statement.Mar 22 00:18
oiaohmThe statement is a good way to try to mask over why they have had to dispose of so many staffMar 22 00:19
Chips_B_MalroyOiaohm> we will see, this next quarter could be a big one for Ballmer keeping his job.Mar 22 00:19
oiaohmI have also see those kinds of statements used to block internal revolts from fear of been cut next.Mar 22 00:19
Chips_B_Malroynow that sound more possilbeMar 22 00:20
Chips_B_Malroy*possibleMar 22 00:20
Chips_B_Malroysorry, I should learn not to write on a laptop keyboard, with all my typo'sMar 22 00:21
oiaohmIt has to be getting hard in some areas not to know staff have gone.Mar 22 00:21
oiaohmNo problem Chips_B_MalroyMar 22 00:21
oiaohmMe no worse on a full size keyboard at times.Mar 22 00:21
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: no,, billg won't come backMar 22 00:22
schestowitzMicrosoft is a wreckMar 22 00:22
schestowitzGates found other monopoliesMar 22 00:22
schestowitzHe also become a front with many orgs like UNMar 22 00:22
Chips_B_MalroyRoy, I like Ballmer actually, rather I prefer him to Gates to run MSMar 22 00:23
oiaohmAlso the talk about Gates coming back is also another way of controling fear.Mar 22 00:23
oiaohmIn gates rule of Ms very few staff got dismissed.Mar 22 00:23
oiaohmI see the statement as matching the requirement for fear control.Mar 22 00:24
oiaohmGates had a simple run.Mar 22 00:24
oiaohmIn his time OEM were loyal.Mar 22 00:25
oiaohmBallmer is having to fight to keep OEMS loyalMar 22 00:25
oiaohmAnd fighting to keep OEM's cuts down on free cash.Mar 22 00:25
Chips_B_Malroyoiaohm> my impression was this was probably a legit comment from an actual MS employee.  But you might be right, that employees have fear, and some would think that Gates coming back would make MS a stronger company, with less chance of them being laidoff.Mar 22 00:26
oiaohmlegit comment does not mean its not fear driven and is the base of hope.Mar 22 00:29
oiaohmIf they lose hope fear wins.Mar 22 00:29
oiaohmThe issue now with that statement if Ballmer does not turn it around he could have a major revolt on his hands.Mar 22 00:30
oiaohmAnd there is nothing worse than programmers pissed off with you for a software company.Mar 22 00:30
oiaohmOk your own programmers pissed off with you.Mar 22 00:30
Chips_B_MalroyThis recession has probably started an acceleration of jobs to be outsourced to India and China by MicrosoftMar 22 00:31
Chips_B_Malroyso its doubtful that the jobs will ever come back at MSMar 22 00:31
Chips_B_MalroyOiaohm> yes, the pissed off programmers at M$ could do something real nasty, like turn out Vi$ta3Mar 22 00:33
Chips_B_Malroybut its shareholders he has to worry aboutMar 22 00:35
Chips_B_Malroyand Bill, Paul AllenMar 22 00:35
oiaohmRemember lot of programmers have seen there jobs at MS out sourced to IndiaMar 22 00:35
oiaohmIt is only a matter of time.Mar 22 00:36
oiaohmBefore something has to give.Mar 22 00:36
oiaohmLets just say you just saw a pre shock to a up coming earthquake at ms.Mar 22 00:36
oiaohmProblem is we just don't know what section is going to wear the earthquakeMar 22 00:37
schestowitzMar 22 00:37
schestowitz[00:23] <Chips_B_Malroy> Roy, I like Ballmer actually, rather I prefer him to Gates to run MSMar 22 00:37
schestowitzYesMar 22 00:37
schestowitzgates spent billions on OPRMar 22 00:37
schestowitz*PRMar 22 00:37
schestowitzAt least hundreds of millionsMar 22 00:37
schestowitzBallmer doesn't have thatMar 22 00:37
schestowitzWhich is ironic because Ballmer is married to Miss W-E and Gates is just groomed by Pam Edstrom, which isn't familyMar 22 00:38
schestowitzBN is too slow, stillMar 22 00:38
schestowitzload average: 6.08, 3.73, 3.89Mar 22 00:38
schestowitzEven dedicated is overloaded like this on a SundayMar 22 00:39
Chips_B_MalroyI would expect the only real growth in employee numbers at MS to be in India and China.  Another 20,000 to be gone at Redmond in the next few years is very possible, or moreMar 22 00:39
schestowitzWe need the proxy backMar 22 00:39
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: It's not headcountMar 22 00:39
schestowitzThey also offshore their legal teamMar 22 00:39
schestowitzIt's how much they invest in staffMar 22 00:39
Chips_B_MalroyBallmer has 16 billion personal wealth last figure I have seenMar 22 00:40
DaemonFChmmm, Opera's torrent client has gotten betterMar 22 00:40
_GoblinahhhhMar 22 00:40
_Goblintorrent....Mar 22 00:40
_Goblinyou must be a pirate ;)Mar 22 00:40
DaemonFCyes, that's why I am trying out one that has no blocklist supportMar 22 00:40
DaemonFC:PMar 22 00:40
Chips_B_Malroynaw he is just getting a linux downloadMar 22 00:40
_GoblinBut you are probably running Peer Guardian ;)Mar 22 00:41
DaemonFCnoMar 22 00:41
_GoblinChips_B_Malroy: I was being sarcastic....everytime torrent is mentioned someone always says pirate.Mar 22 00:41
Chips_B_MalroyTruly, I am sorry I ever gave M$ any money.  Mar 22 00:42
Chips_B_MalroyIt might almost be worst to have fed the beast than to pirate itMar 22 00:43
Chips_B_Malroylook at what they have do to windows usersMar 22 00:43
Chips_B_Malroywindows users=malware usersMar 22 00:44
_Goblin"get em sort of addicted, we'll make a return later..."Mar 22 00:44
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Documentation viewing, opportunistic style - #opportunisticdevelopers #ubuntuMar 22 00:44
phIRCe-BNcTitle: DocView Preview «  jfdm's blog .::. Size~: 15.51 KBMar 22 00:44
Chips_B_Malroyoh please, cleam my windows Mar 22 00:44
Chips_B_Malroy*cleanMar 22 00:44
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Brute Force and Sheer Power of Microsoft Windows #botnet #virus #sec #crime #spamMar 22 00:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The Brute Force and Sheer Power of Microsoft Windows | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 96.62 KBMar 22 00:47
oiaohmNow you are hearing MS developers talking about that the OS core need to be redesigned.  Only one problem Linux with supers has been working on this problem for yearsMar 22 00:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Slashdot Technology Story | Multicore Requires OS Rework, Windows Expert Says .::. Size~: 132.09 KBMar 22 00:47
oiaohmI love the statement.Mar 22 00:47
oiaohmkernel/userspace divide can be done away with and some magical hypervisor will cure problems.Mar 22 00:48
schestowitzMicrosoft admits WIndows is a relicMar 22 00:49
schestowitzWhere is WSSP now?Mar 22 00:49
schestowitzThe Server thing?Mar 22 00:49
oiaohm 22 00:50
phIRCe-BNcTitle:   1968 ASCII Animation from Russia     .::. Size~: 36.57 KBMar 22 00:50
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Porting more PyGTK snippets to use the new documentation feature in python-snippets #pythonsnippets #acireMar 22 00:54
sebsebsebDaemonFC:  _Goblin 22 00:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Linux Today - All Done With Ubuntu .::. Size~: 81.51 KBMar 22 00:55
sebsebsebschestowitz ^Mar 22 00:56
MinceRgnMar 22 01:09
_GoblingnMar 22 01:11
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Finished the PyGTK snippets, going to take a look at the others now.Mar 22 01:13
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phIRCe-BNcTitle: Novell rejects "inadequate" $2B takeover bid .::. Size~: 81.14 KBMar 22 01:14
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schestowitzYeah, oldMar 22 01:24
schestowitzThey want more moneyMar 22 01:25
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DaemonFCI might build Banshee on WindowsMar 22 01:28
DaemonFCjust to be extra evilMar 22 01:28
schestowitzLike your name indicatesMar 22 01:30
Chips_B_MalroyDaemonFC> is you must run winders, remove WMP and install SMPlayerMar 22 01:30
schestowitzDaemonFC: Build it for Macdown LinuxMar 22 01:31
schestowitzUbuntu 10.04 :-pMar 22 01:31
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DaemonFChehMar 22 01:32
DaemonFCThe teabaggers are getting demoralized and leavingMar 22 01:32
DaemonFCschestowitz: I heard there's a Teabagger group in the UK now. Any comment?Mar 22 01:33
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phIRCe-BNcTitle:    Massive Protest Against UK Anti-Piracy Bill | TorrentFreak   .::. Size~: 63.92 KBMar 22 01:36
DaemonFChmmm, Firefox 3.7 has Direct2D support (have to manually enable it) Mar 22 01:41
DaemonFCOpera 10.5 already has thatMar 22 01:42
DaemonFChelps out rendering time a LOTMar 22 01:42
DaemonFCoiaohm: What would the answer to this on the Linux side be?Mar 22 01:42
oiaohmQt method is opengl for 2dMar 22 01:44
oiaohmThe other is wait for X11 stack to be fixed.  DaemonFCMar 22 01:45
DaemonFCor flip on Direct2D support and use the Direct2D support in ATI's Linux driver I guessMar 22 01:45
DaemonFChave to wait until that is more reliable thoughMar 22 01:45
Chips_B_MalroyTo me getting open source drivers for ATI and NVidia, and newer Xorg releases seem to be first to really fixing opengl?  Which appears to be holding back gaming on linux to some extent?Mar 22 01:50
oiaohmIts not just opengl.Mar 22 01:50
oiaohmLike only recently the has X11 got the means to to vsync swaping of buffers.Mar 22 01:50
Chips_B_MalroyI expect some pain for awhile.  Its like the Doctor used to say, its going get worse before it gets betterMar 22 01:50
oiaohmVery much is.Mar 22 01:51
oiaohmDRI 1 was insanely limiting.Mar 22 01:51
oiaohmLike only 1 opengl program at a time was techincally supported.Mar 22 01:51
Chips_B_Malroyoiaohm>yes, I was asking, and if you can expound on the opengl xorg ATI drivers thing, please doMar 22 01:51
oiaohmLike KMS and DRI2 alterations are techically not exactly for opengl.Mar 22 01:52
oiaohmThey are for everything.Mar 22 01:52
Chips_B_MalroyI even think they are holding back wine to some degree on ATIMar 22 01:52
Chips_B_Malroythe old drivers that isMar 22 01:52
oiaohmIntel were worse.Mar 22 01:52
oiaohmIts not just open source here.Mar 22 01:53
Chips_B_Malroywine is picky which games play on ATI dual monitors xramaMar 22 01:53
oiaohmSame with Nvidia duel screen Chips_B_MalroyMar 22 01:53
oiaohmAgain party X11 again.Mar 22 01:53
Chips_B_Malroyit seems they are trying to fix it Mar 22 01:54
Chips_B_Malroybe its going take timeMar 22 01:54
oiaohmX11 displayed virtual screen to programs with no way to see if 2 montors were being made one.Mar 22 01:54
DaemonFCoiaohm: ATI's drivers only suck on LinuxMar 22 01:54
DaemonFCon Windows and OS X, they're goodMar 22 01:54
DaemonFCit's unrealMar 22 01:54
oiaohmATI tried to stay inside the X11 standard.Mar 22 01:55
oiaohmNvidia said stuff it.Mar 22 01:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Folks, we need your help reviewing and merging Ubuntu patches! See for details. :-) Also, nigelb rocks. #ubuntuMar 22 01:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle:                   Help Needed! Reviewing And Merging Patches | jonobacon@home                     .::. Size~: 26.55 KBMar 22 01:55
oiaohmBasically the framework ATI drivers have been sitting on is crap.Mar 22 01:55
oiaohmThat why I say its a lot deeper issue.Mar 22 01:55
oiaohmYou cannot just blame ATI for it.  Lot of people are responable.Mar 22 01:56
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oiaohmLike toolkit makers instead of fixing X11 just wrapped more and more code on top trying to cover up the errors.Mar 22 01:56
oiaohmBasically if the lower level you are depending on sux's everthing above it will sux as well.Mar 22 01:57
oiaohmReason why soon will draw a line in the sand and no longer support any DRI 1 drivers.Mar 22 01:58
oiaohmMost people don't notice that the open source ATI drivers at moment using DRI2 can run sections of 2d about 40 to 200 times faster than the old closed source drivers on the same card.Mar 22 01:59
oiaohmYes the opengl section does not fully work yet.  But rebuilding the complete stack takes time.Mar 22 02:00
Chips_B_MalroyOiaohm> i don't play a lot of game, but the ATI dual monitor support is nice for me.  But even there, I see that becoming more legacy with larger hd TV lcd's becoming the norm.  Fixing this and making gaming work better (and maybe wine on the video stack as well) will help Linux adoption is my thought.Mar 22 02:01
oiaohmThere is already a subbranch in galuim3d expermenting with taking direct x9 from wine straight to video card by passing opengl.Mar 22 02:02
oiaohmWould not been possible without the changes caused by DRI2 Mar 22 02:03
Chips_B_Malroywine has really impressed me with the speed of improvements, MS should be very worried indeed.Mar 22 02:03
oiaohmLot of that is coming from the Linux kernel by the way Chips_B_MalroyMar 22 02:04
oiaohmLot of kernel locks that were jaming wine are are no more.Mar 22 02:04
oiaohmThere are still some issues using real serial ports and the big kernel lock causing a few stalls.Mar 22 02:04
Chips_B_MalroyInteresting.  So the video drivers when perfected may also help Xorg, and both may help wine?Mar 22 02:05
oiaohmBig block of the issues are deep inside the system Chips_B_MalroyMar 22 02:05
DaemonFCthe guy presiding over the House just ripped the GOP a new assholeMar 22 02:05
DaemonFChahaMar 22 02:05
DaemonFCrefused to fall into that guys trap to block the voteMar 22 02:06
oiaohmYes Chips_B_Malroy both are helping wine.  Some hacks in wine only exist because sections of X11 don't work effectively either.Mar 22 02:06
oiaohmOne of the big changes wine developers are watching is the input system.Mar 22 02:07
oiaohmX11 old input system is not very direct X compadible.Mar 22 02:07
oiaohmBasically the problems are all over the place Chips_B_MalroyMar 22 02:07
oiaohmAll of them are low level were most people fear to go.Mar 22 02:08
Chips_B_Malroybut it seems to be the place where it will be most useful to gainMar 22 02:09
oiaohmNokia vmware and intel we have a lot to thank for.Mar 22 02:10
oiaohmLot of thier staff are going into the areas that have need fixing for years where people have feared to go.Mar 22 02:10
oiaohmLike all the way upto 2004 was still using user space round robin sheduler for most of it tasks.Mar 22 02:11
oiaohmEven that all posix OS's had thread and process management form over 8 years before.Mar 22 02:12
oiaohmfrom kernelMar 22 02:12
oiaohmIts why I said for years the Linux desktop simply did not stand a chance and that no one was really trying to make a Linux desktop.Mar 22 02:12
Chips_B_Malroyfor cutting edge gaming you mean?Mar 22 02:13
oiaohmUbuntu really is not trying one of the critical things to make a desktop work is dealing with all these low level problems. Mar 22 02:13
oiaohmNo I mean for anything Chips_B_MalroyMar 22 02:13
Chips_B_Malroyah but it worked, and how many kluges in the Windose system?Mar 22 02:14
oiaohmThe core of a windows system techincally does work.Mar 22 02:14
Chips_B_Malroybut I do agree about the improvementsMar 22 02:15
oiaohmThe kluges are all above the core.Mar 22 02:15
oiaohmLike when was the last time you saw windows lose input or put screen into a state it could not recover from.Mar 22 02:16
Chips_B_Malroywell, I don't run windows really anymoreMar 22 02:16
oiaohmYes we laugh at the blue screen of death.  But it always displayed.Mar 22 02:16
oiaohmLinux kernel panics on the other hand.Mar 22 02:16
oiaohmScreen would just freese funny colors appear accross the top completley useless to debug what in hell went wrong.Mar 22 02:17
Chips_B_Malroymostly you get the black screen in windows during bootup menus in xpMar 22 02:17
oiaohmThe black screen comes form ntldrMar 22 02:17
Chips_B_Malroysome bugs it would lose user account data or regristary hosed upMar 22 02:18
oiaohmWindows bootloader failureMar 22 02:18
oiaohmgrub can do the same.Mar 22 02:18
oiaohmWhen talking about OS up and running and the loader has worked.  You basically never see a failure that the screen is lost.Mar 22 02:18
oiaohmWith windows.Mar 22 02:19
Chips_B_Malroynormally your would get the ntrdr failed to load message right awayMar 22 02:19
oiaohmNot always.Mar 22 02:19
Chips_B_Malroyand for many many reasonsMar 22 02:19
oiaohmntldr tryed to process registry to know what drivers it needs to load.Mar 22 02:19
oiaohmSometimes it gets lost in damaged registries.Mar 22 02:19
oiaohmIf you leave it for many hours it sometimes comes out with the ntldr error messageMar 22 02:20
Chips_B_Malroyand sometimes xp decides you have changed to many pieces of hardware too, Bill does not like thatMar 22 02:20
oiaohmThat fails with a bluescreen.Mar 22 02:20
Chips_B_Malroyyes, you right on that oneMar 22 02:21
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy:  OEM you can change everything bu t the motherboardMar 22 02:21
DaemonFCRetail is change anything you wantMar 22 02:21
oiaohmAll else fails windows resets the video card to vesa.  and display error message.Mar 22 02:21
DaemonFCyou may trigger a re-activationMar 22 02:21
oiaohmExactly what is so hard to do that.Mar 22 02:21
Chips_B_Malroyonce in awhile you can change the motherboard and it will workMar 22 02:21
DaemonFCthose are infiniteMar 22 02:21
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy: If it's identical it willMar 22 02:22
oiaohmDoes not have to be identical.Mar 22 02:22
Chips_B_Malroymostly notMar 22 02:22
oiaohmSame core chipset and same maker works.Mar 22 02:22
oiaohmEven if different model board.Mar 22 02:22
oiaohmNow when machine is 5 years old finding that is really not going to happen often.Mar 22 02:23
Chips_B_MalroyagreedMar 22 02:23
oiaohmAt least if you have the choice of motherboards you now know what to look for if you want to avoid activation.Mar 22 02:25
Chips_B_Malroybut 98SE, Linux, and most likely W2000 were not a problem to change to a completely new computer.  Mar 22 02:25
Chips_B_MalroyBefore Bill's Hal DRMMar 22 02:26
DaemonFCWindows 2000 had no Activation systemMar 22 02:27
oiaohmWindows 2000 is driver picky.Mar 22 02:27
DaemonFCXP was the firstMar 22 02:27
oiaohmMake sure you have the same video card and Windows 2000 would sort it self out.Mar 22 02:28
oiaohmNow change from a ATI to a NVIDIA nice blue screen of death.Mar 22 02:28
oiaohmOr even change models.Mar 22 02:28
oiaohmSome of the drivers evily over rid safe mode driver on 2000Mar 22 02:29
DaemonFCATI or Nvidia or Nvidia to ATI will likely do bad things in LinuxMar 22 02:29
DaemonFCboth driver packages like to install their own OpenGL driversMar 22 02:29
oiaohmNvidia hunts and destories other OpenglsMar 22 02:29
oiaohmOn LinuxMar 22 02:29
oiaohmATI does not Mar 22 02:29
oiaohmSo you techincally can swap to intel cards from ATI no issues.Mar 22 02:30
DaemonFCthe RPM that RPM Fusion provides avoids thatMar 22 02:30
Chips_B_Malroyjust copy xorg.conf from the live cd to the hard drive in the new systemMar 22 02:30
oiaohmThat is the other thing ATI did try to intergate with mesa as well.Mar 22 02:31
oiaohmAnd that thing has been a snailMar 22 02:31
Chips_B_MalroyI expect great things watching the progress that is being madeMar 22 02:31
oiaohmLot of blame was sent in ATI direction over there drivers.  But they were trying todo the right thing and respect the Linux stack.Mar 22 02:32
oiaohmUs humans are bad at blaming the right people.Mar 22 02:32
Chips_B_Malroyoiaohm> you might be interested in this one 22 02:41
phIRCe-BNcTitle: New Google Project to Make  3D Web Apps More Windows-friendly | Maximum PC .::. Size~: 47.66 KBMar 22 02:41
Chips_B_Malroy" Since WebGL depends on the OpenGL graphics API, it is better suited to Linux and OS X as compared to Windows. But Google has just announced a new initiative called Almost Native Graphics Layer Engine, or ANGLE, to “layer WebGL's subset of the OpenGL ES 2.0 API over DirectX 9.0c API calls.” "Mar 22 02:42
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oiaohmThe project is stupid Chips_B_MalroyMar 22 02:47
oiaohmWhat are they going todo as WebGL expands the opengl feature it uses.Mar 22 02:48
Chips_B_MalroyI have no idea, its beyond me, which is why I thought you would be interested.  Google is planning something.Mar 22 02:51
oiaohmIts a recycled idea by the way.  Chips_B_MalroyMar 22 02:51
oiaohmMesa 3d had a direct x 6 back end at one point.Mar 22 02:51
oiaohm10 years later does not make the idea any wiser.Mar 22 02:52
Chips_B_Malroycould this be a more limited application of thisMar 22 02:52
oiaohmHell yes.Mar 22 02:52
oiaohmopengl does not map to direct x.  Wine can map to direct x as well as it does because functions to support that process has been added to opengl.Mar 22 02:53
oiaohmDo you think MS is going to be adding opengl support functions to Direct X any time soon.Mar 22 02:53
Chips_B_MalroyI am not an expert on this at all.  But do read a little.  Isn't opengl supported somewhat on windows, but MS crippled or slowed it down drastically on Vista/7?Mar 22 02:54
Chips_B_MalroyHelp me here, I just trying to figure what Google is up to.Mar 22 02:55
oiaohmIf closed source drivers that work are installed nothing wrong with windows opengl.Mar 22 02:55
oiaohmNow big thing here we can better direct X will not be able to support all the features coming in opengl over time.Mar 22 02:55
oiaohmSo angle will run into the same problems MS opengl software rendering does.Mar 22 02:56
DaemonFCthe health bill just passedMar 22 02:56
oiaohmIf you are going todo something like angle you are better off to use something like mesa that has a software rendering framework to back you up for direct X limitations.Mar 22 02:56
Chips_B_Malroyit obvious that Google is using this web only, if I understand correctly.  and most likely google wants to use free software opengl with a layer on it to work in chrome perhaps, on Windows computers?Mar 22 02:57
DaemonFC219 in favorMar 22 02:57
DaemonFC3 more than neededMar 22 02:57
oiaohmHow will it help opengl long term Chips_B_MalroyMar 22 02:57
oiaohmThe result is worse than you can dream.  Why should MS support opengl if everyone wraps onto direct  XMar 22 02:58
oiaohmThen why should video card drivers ship with a opengl driver at all.Mar 22 02:58
Chips_B_MalroytrueMar 22 02:58
oiaohmBy using mesa on windows with galuim3d you would at least have somethign there that could send data straight to video card.Mar 22 02:59
oiaohmthese wrapper solutions are not a solution.Mar 22 02:59
Chips_B_Malroylet me ask you thisMar 22 02:59
oiaohmTransmedia are behind it as well by the way. Chips_B_MalroyMar 22 02:59
Chips_B_Malroywhat I see is google wants this for web only.  Since Google already had html5, what do they need this for?  Online games perhaps for window users?Mar 22 03:00
oiaohmLittle worse than that.Mar 22 03:02
Chips_B_Malroyit did sound like apps for the desktop reading the post, but since Google is web based, I kind of think something else they need it forMar 22 03:02
oiaohmGoogle wants this for pnacl.   I think the native code in browser thing they are working on.  Chips_B_MalroyMar 22 03:02
oiaohmI think to the spelling of pnaclMar 22 03:02
oiaohmSo effectivelly applications provided by web.  No  OS dependance.  Chips_B_MalroyMar 22 03:03
oiaohmMS worst nightmare.Mar 22 03:03
Chips_B_MalroyDaemonFC> they have the votes in the SenateMar 22 03:03
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy: The Senate doesn't need to authorize the main billMar 22 03:04
DaemonFCthey just passed the Senate version of that in the HouseMar 22 03:04
Chips_B_MalroyohMar 22 03:04
DaemonFCThe bill coming up is amendments to the bill they jsut passed :PMar 22 03:04
DaemonFCit's a separate actMar 22 03:04
DaemonFCthe senate only needs to vote on this partMar 22 03:05
Chips_B_Malroymaybe its time to buy insurance stocksMar 22 03:06
DaemonFCmehMar 22 03:07
Chips_B_MalroyagreedMar 22 03:07
DaemonFCmore customers but less profitable Mar 22 03:07
DaemonFCsaying you have to cover everyone and keep the price reasonable might get their profit margin downMar 22 03:07
Chips_B_Malroynobody will make them cut rates now, they already jacked them up Mar 22 03:07
DaemonFCeven if total profit goes upMar 22 03:07
DaemonFCwell, what I mean is, say I make a 20% profit margin by systematically avoiding covering high risk people, right?Mar 22 03:08
DaemonFCWhat happens if I have to accept those people and keep my prices for everyone reasonableMar 22 03:08
DaemonFCmy profit margin might now be 10%, but I have more customersMar 22 03:09
Chips_B_MalroyWe will see, if this plan is good, the Dems will get a long run out of it.  But remember, most people dislike insurance companies. If this is just another bill, the Republicains will be back in soonMar 22 03:10
DaemonFCI doubt they just passed something they know will sabotage their re-electionMar 22 03:10
Chips_B_Malroyby another bill, I mean expense for the middle class.  Mar 22 03:10
DaemonFCthe Republicans had nothing to lose if they defeated it because we'd never know what would have beenMar 22 03:11
DaemonFCthey could say they averted catastrophe and make up all kinds of would-be horror storiesMar 22 03:11
Chips_B_MalroyDaemonFC> I doubt they just passed something they know will sabotage their re-election"  I really hope thats true, as the Republicians under Bush were not that smart.Mar 22 03:11
Chips_B_MalroyI am wait and see on this.Mar 22 03:12
DaemonFCguess we will, the bill is passedMar 22 03:12
DaemonFCthe amendments bill is the only thing that matters nowMar 22 03:12
Chips_B_MalroyA public option I did think goodMar 22 03:12
DaemonFCthe amendments bill just corrects the problems in the bill they just had to passMar 22 03:13
DaemonFCthey had to pass the bill they just passed, flaws included, cause the Senate composition changed since DecemberMar 22 03:13
Chips_B_Malroyyes, I understand thatMar 22 03:14
Chips_B_MalroyprocedureMar 22 03:14
DaemonFCif they can get the amendments bill through, it's goodMar 22 03:15
DaemonFCif they don't, we have a horror story bloated with porkMar 22 03:15
Chips_B_Malroyit depends on how much tax credit you give to the lower middle class for this insuranceMar 22 03:16
DaemonFC"the government cannot grant us rights, that comes from natures god, and, and...."Mar 22 03:16
DaemonFCthis guy on the CSPAN "Oppose" lineMar 22 03:16
Chips_B_Malroylower middle class cannot basically afford insurance now as it isMar 22 03:17
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy:  The government subsidies go up to 400% of the poverty lineMar 22 03:17
DaemonFCso a single person could make something like $40,000-ish a yearMar 22 03:18
*enthymeme ( has joined #boycottnovellMar 22 03:18
Chips_B_Malroyyes the rich opposes health treatment for others is sicking.  Mar 22 03:18
DaemonFCand be capped to paying no more than 6% of his income to health insuranceMar 22 03:18
enthymemeright, have to add this channel to my autojoins Mar 22 03:18
*ender2070 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)Mar 22 03:18
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy: It's $96.41 a month for Medicare Part B (health insurance) and about $35 a month for part D (drugs)Mar 22 03:19
Chips_B_Malroyfine, that all well and good for Indiana, but how about out west or the south where the income might be 15000 per year?Mar 22 03:19
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DaemonFCif you're a senior on social security making $1,200 a month, right?Mar 22 03:19
Chips_B_MalroynoMar 22 03:20
DaemonFC$131.41 nowMar 22 03:20
Chips_B_Malroythats going hurt some of these folksMar 22 03:20
DaemonFC$72 under the plan that was passed nowMar 22 03:20
DaemonFCso it really helps low and middle income peopleMar 22 03:20
Chips_B_Malroywe will seeMar 22 03:20
DaemonFCmeans that little old lady won't be eating cat foodMar 22 03:20
DaemonFCisn't that nice? :)Mar 22 03:21
Chips_B_Malroyfor some the insurance money may have gone to buy foodMar 22 03:21
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy:  People that were single  for all or most of their life get dry fucked by Social SecurityMar 22 03:21
Chips_B_Malroythat remains to be seenMar 22 03:22
DaemonFCif you're married and your spouse dies, you draw theirs tooMar 22 03:22
DaemonFCyou did know that, right?Mar 22 03:22
Chips_B_Malroywell, I am taking a wait a see look at this, it might be the best thing since sliced bread, who knowsMar 22 03:22
DaemonFCso if I'm single all my life and then retire, I get like $1,000 a monthMar 22 03:22
DaemonFCbut if I'm married and my wife dies, I get her check too, and I'm living on $2,000 a month nowMar 22 03:23
DaemonFCso Social Security is so unfair to single peopleMar 22 03:23
DaemonFCtheir reasoning is "It's to replace the income of the lost spouse"Mar 22 03:24
DaemonFCWhy not make them live on the same money the single guy on SSI has to?Mar 22 03:24
DaemonFCso the government rewards people for being marriedMar 22 03:24
neighborleeYAY health care passes!!!Mar 22 03:25
neighborleeand again,,the republicans go INTO the gutter by calling mr stupak a 'baby killler'Mar 22 03:25
DaemonFCdon't cheer yet, neighborleeMar 22 03:25
DaemonFCthey're trying to block the amendments packageMar 22 03:25
neighborleeits signed , sealed and deliveredMar 22 03:25
DaemonFCwithout that, this is a turdMar 22 03:25
neighborleeit FAILEDMar 22 03:26
Chips_B_Malroyfor me, some of it dosen't soulnd too bad, but for younger people who do not need much medical treatment, and make little, not so sureMar 22 03:26
neighborleeread my lips it FAILEDMar 22 03:26
neighborlee:)Mar 22 03:26
neighborlee219 votes NO ;)Mar 22 03:26
DaemonFCwell, now it goes to the SenateMar 22 03:26
neighborleeno its a done dealMar 22 03:26
DaemonFCbuthe Rethuglicans can't filibuster it thereMar 22 03:26
DaemonFCso 50 plus Vice President is all they needMar 22 03:26
neighborleeall that is left is ammendments..but health care for all americans is a done deal ;)Mar 22 03:26
DaemonFCthe amendments package I meanMar 22 03:26
DaemonFCAll they need to pass amendments in the Senate is 50 + VPMar 22 03:27
neighborleethe amendments have nothing to do with itMar 22 03:27
DaemonFC:)Mar 22 03:27
Chips_B_MalroyDaemonFC> even if its bad, it might get improved later.  The trick was to get something passed.Mar 22 03:27
Chips_B_Malroynot for all americansMar 22 03:27
DaemonFCI'd keep Biden in DC while that's being debatedMar 22 03:27
DaemonFCmaybe have him preside over the Senate for itMar 22 03:28
neighborleeanyway..itws clear the republicans only care about beating up on rights for  unBORN..what about rights for people already OUT of teh womb and alive!Mar 22 03:28
neighborleeI guess they dont care about us..imagine that.Mar 22 03:28
neighborleetypicalMar 22 03:28
neighborleeand their language..DISGUSTINGMar 22 03:29
DaemonFCyeah, the right to life begins at conception and ends at birth, neighborleeMar 22 03:29
DaemonFCapparently :PMar 22 03:29
neighborleeoooooookMar 22 03:29
Chips_B_Malroythere will be a lot of republicans very unhappy about thisMar 22 03:29
neighborleeyour very confused ;)Mar 22 03:29
DaemonFCneighborlee: The RepublicansMar 22 03:30
neighborleeChips_B_Malroy: its already beyond thatMar 22 03:30
DaemonFC"The right to life begins at conception and ends at birth"Mar 22 03:30
DaemonFCget it?Mar 22 03:30
DaemonFCnothing for you once you're here!Mar 22 03:30
Chips_B_MalroyI would almost like to turn on the AM radio and listen to Rush foam at the mouth tommorrowMar 22 03:30
neighborleeChips_B_Malroy: the republicans not only lost the vote..they lost the  trust of aamericans showiong what immoral people they  really are by saying 'baby killer' to  mr stupakMar 22 03:30
DaemonFCyou're now free to freeze, starve, or get sick and dieMar 22 03:30
neighborleetheir TRUE colors have been revealed.Mar 22 03:30
neighborleeabout time.Mar 22 03:30
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Dave Probert 'Why should you ever, with all this parallel hardware, ever be waiting for your computer?' #slashdotMar 22 03:31
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Slashdot | Multicore Requires OS Rework, Windows Expert Says .::. Size~: 144.97 KBMar 22 03:31
Chips_B_Malroyneighborlee>I was only commenting on the health bill not on abortionMar 22 03:31
neighborleeyup I knowMar 22 03:31
neighborleeIm just making it clear what republicans have done..Mar 22 03:32
DaemonFCneighborlee: I'm opposed to willful abortion, but I'm amazed at how many "conservatives" think your right to live stops at birthMar 22 03:32
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] Not to fear, my Republican friends. Bills can be repealed. The question is: Does the will to do so exist or was it all bluster?Mar 22 03:32
DaemonFCI think the compromise they reached "no federal funding" is as good as this bill will getMar 22 03:32
Chips_B_Malroythey my former party, have blocked any meaningful health care for any person in need Mar 22 03:32
neighborleeChips_B_Malroy: yes, and you know whyMar 22 03:33
neighborleeits called MONEYMar 22 03:33
neighborleevotes for 'sale' ;)Mar 22 03:33
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy: I'm in favor of free contraception coverageMar 22 03:33
Chips_B_Malroyor deraingmentMar 22 03:33
DaemonFCas much as you needMar 22 03:33
DaemonFCthat's what I want to see paid forMar 22 03:33
Chips_B_Malroyis why they blocked itMar 22 03:33
DaemonFCcontraception is a good thing, there's no reason to slice and dice a baby because you didn't use a condomMar 22 03:34
DaemonFCnone at allMar 22 03:34
DaemonFCand I don't even want to hear them justify thatMar 22 03:34
neighborleeno matter whats done is done...and soon health care becomes more in the realm of a RIGHT, not just a priviledge for the chosen FEW rich peopleMar 22 03:34
neighborleeamen.Mar 22 03:34
neighborleeim PROUD to join the ranks of other 'civil' industrialized nations, who care for their citizens. ;)Mar 22 03:34
neighborleeyay teamMar 22 03:34
Chips_B_MalroyDaemonFC> actully I am too in favor of free contraceptives, it cheaper than funding abortions, and has to be less painfulMar 22 03:35
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy:  It's an ethical way to solve the unwanted pregnancy problemMar 22 03:35
Chips_B_Malroyneighborlee>we are not there entirely, it does not cover everyoneMar 22 03:35
DaemonFCstop it before it gets to that pointMar 22 03:35
neighborleeno one likes the idea of abortion..I surely dont either...but we have to deal with it intelligently and compassinatley, not just   talk nonsense and yelll baby killer when trying to score political pointsMar 22 03:35
DaemonFCI really hope this government insurance thing covers birth control pillsMar 22 03:36
DaemonFCit really really shouldMar 22 03:36
Chips_B_Malroyit cannot until the next electionMar 22 03:36
neighborleeits NOT just about birth controlMar 22 03:36
neighborleeits about teaching kids about abstinance too..Mar 22 03:36
DaemonFCthat doesn't workMar 22 03:36
neighborleeand stopping porn shops around every corner.its immoralMar 22 03:37
neighborleeit might help thoughMar 22 03:37
DaemonFCthe more you beat that into them, the higher the teen pregnancy rate goesMar 22 03:37
neighborleewho said amnything about beating it into them ?Mar 22 03:37
DaemonFCwhy not just be pragmatic and tell them to be responsible?Mar 22 03:37
neighborleethat was you not meMar 22 03:37
neighborlee:)Mar 22 03:37
Chips_B_Malroy<neighborlee> and stopping porn shops around every corner.its immoral"  Tell that to LumpyMar 22 03:37
neighborleeand who is lumpyMar 22 03:37
DaemonFCheh, porn shops are fineMar 22 03:37
DaemonFCthey don't let kids inMar 22 03:37
neighborleeso that makes it ok ?Mar 22 03:38
DaemonFCsureMar 22 03:38
neighborleeWRONGMar 22 03:38
neighborleeplease tell me..Mar 22 03:38
Chips_B_MalroyLumpy=LeftyMar 22 03:38
neighborleehow I was born , by a mother who never stepped foot into a porn tell me how my mother survived lifeMar 22 03:38
neighborleeIm eager to hear the answer ;)Mar 22 03:38
DaemonFCBoudoir Noir in Fort WayneMar 22 03:39
Chips_B_Malroyyou can ask Ender the rest of the Lefty porn shop storyMar 22 03:39
DaemonFCget a kick every time I go in thereMar 22 03:39
DaemonFCthey also have a nice collection of bongsMar 22 03:39
neighborleenow before Im scoled and told im naive...lets just say im anything but, and im NOT a virginMar 22 03:39
DaemonFC"for tobacco use" of course ;)Mar 22 03:39
DaemonFCgah, with this cough and congestion, my neighbors probably think I'm over here smoking potMar 22 03:40
DaemonFCthat's the last time my lungs felt like thisMar 22 03:41
Chips_B_Malroyso once this passes the senate, anyone know how long this takes to take effect?Mar 22 03:42
DaemonFCas soon as they can get the President's signature on itMar 22 03:42
DaemonFCprobably next weekMar 22 03:42
DaemonFChe'll sign the main bill tomorrow no doubtMar 22 03:43
Chips_B_Malroyand does it cover part time jobs?  its hard to even find full time jobs right nowMar 22 03:43
DaemonFCI don't knowMar 22 03:43
Chips_B_Malroyguess we will find out then DeamonFCMar 22 03:44
Chips_B_Malroyyou know big boxmart will screw more people as part timers to get around this insurance if its only for full timersMar 22 03:46
DaemonFChehMar 22 03:48
DaemonFCI'm capped at 2% of my income to health insuranceMar 22 03:48
DaemonFCunder this planMar 22 03:48
DaemonFCor maybe 3%Mar 22 03:49
neighborleesorry friend called..bblMar 22 03:50
Chips_B_Malroyone thing I totally agree with the Dems on, that the Richer folks need to pay moreMar 22 03:51
DaemonFC"Fines employers with 50 or more employees if any full-time workers qualify for health care subsidies"Mar 22 03:51
DaemonFClmaoMar 22 03:51
DaemonFCyeah, Walmart will be going all part time to dodge thatMar 22 03:51
DaemonFCthey'll give out 1 hour less per week than the bill considers "full time"Mar 22 03:51
Chips_B_Malroyyou cannot make some poor young person making 12 to 15k a year, pay insurance bill too.  They are the working poorMar 22 03:51
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: ermMar 22 03:53
Diablo-D3they sort of didMar 22 03:53
Diablo-D3re: walmartMar 22 03:53
DaemonFCWell, Walmart was lobbying for universal coverageMar 22 03:53
DaemonFCwonder if their lobbyists liked this billMar 22 03:53
Chips_B_MalroyActually, I am thinking this bill could be a help to Walmart employeesMar 22 03:54
Chips_B_Malroythe funding for the insurance is not employer based correct?Mar 22 03:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] Recommended by Ghabuntu , good site opsound, creative commons music. 22 03:56
phIRCe-BNcTitle: opsound: free love, free music .::. Size~: 5.49 KBMar 22 03:56
DaemonFCone of the Congress Critters from Georgia just resigned!Mar 22 03:56
Chips_B_MalroyRepub or Dem?Mar 22 03:57
DaemonFCRepublicanMar 22 03:57
Chips_B_Malroywhy?Mar 22 03:57
Chips_B_Malroyis he madMar 22 03:58
DaemonFC 22 03:58
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Information on Representative Nathan Deal of Georgia .::. Size~: 11.31 KBMar 22 03:58
DaemonFCHe just resignedMar 22 03:58
DaemonFCeffective NOWMar 22 03:58
DaemonFC:)Mar 22 03:58
DaemonFCheh, health care passedMar 22 03:59
Chips_B_Malroyright after the voteMar 22 03:59
DaemonFCand one less RepublicanMar 22 03:59
DaemonFCniceMar 22 03:59
DaemonFCyepMar 22 03:59
Chips_B_Malroythey must have told him wait till after the voteMar 22 03:59
DaemonFCyeahMar 22 03:59
DaemonFCthey figured they had a better change of stopping the bill if he stayed on a little longerMar 22 04:00
DaemonFC*chanceMar 22 04:00
Chips_B_Malroythey usually resign for some scandel about to be exposedMar 22 04:00
DaemonFCObama's live on TMar 22 04:00
DaemonFC*TVMar 22 04:00
Chips_B_Malroynot here, must be because of the time changeMar 22 04:08
Chips_B_Malroyit will be on the regular news in an hourMar 22 04:09
Chips_B_MalroyTVTime works great with my old WinTV card in LinuxMar 22 04:10
DaemonFC 22 04:13
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Health Care Reconciliation Bill Summary - Blog - OpenCongress .::. Size~: 120.06 KBMar 22 04:13
Chips_B_MalroyI have to look up the station Rush Limbaugh is on and try to listen to him for a bit tomorrow, it should be entertainingMar 22 04:15
DaemonFCoh hell noMar 22 04:15
DaemonFCI can't listen to himMar 22 04:16
Chips_B_MalroyI can hear it now, bunch of commies passed this bill. lolMar 22 04:16
DaemonFCI feel like my ears have bacon grease in them just from hearing his voiceMar 22 04:16
Chips_B_MalroyMaybe I should start calling everyone Comrade?Mar 22 04:16
Chips_B_MalroyDaemonFC>he is going be on major tilt tomorrow, it will be fun to listenMar 22 04:17
DaemonFCIt's just the Oxycontin talkingMar 22 04:18
Chips_B_Malroybut then again, its probably too much effort to botherMar 22 04:18
DaemonFCMy car is in such bad shape, even Rush Limbaugh might outrun itMar 22 04:18
DaemonFC*sigh*Mar 22 04:18
Chips_B_MalroyI doubt that, unless he is on the golf course heading for the buffetMar 22 04:19
DaemonFChaving a heart attack and going to the hospital in Hawaii where the taxpayers are paying for itMar 22 04:19
DaemonFCand then saying he loved the treatment he gotMar 22 04:19
DaemonFCwhoopMar 22 04:19
DaemonFC*whoopsMar 22 04:19
Chips_B_Malroywell yes, he is a millionarieMar 22 04:20
Chips_B_Malroyhe is not a poor slobMar 22 04:20
Chips_B_Malroyhe is a rich slobMar 22 04:20
DaemonFCright, but Hawaii has a single payer systemMar 22 04:20
DaemonFCthey don't even ask about your insurance, they just go to workMar 22 04:21
Chips_B_MalroyI did not know thatMar 22 04:21
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy: 22 04:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- Discover Card Ad - Emergency Room .::. Size~: 112.12 KBMar 22 04:22
DaemonFCThat's the other 49 statesMar 22 04:22
DaemonFC:DMar 22 04:22
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy: Yes, and the vast majority of Hawaiians that make under $200,000 a year are very happy with their coverageMar 22 04:23
DaemonFCimagine thatMar 22 04:23
DaemonFCthe rich people think it's "communist"Mar 22 04:23
DaemonFCoddly enough the rich people there can't incite the poor people because the poor people like their insurance and the premiumsMar 22 04:24
DaemonFC:)Mar 22 04:24
DaemonFChell, even some of the people paying high taxes say they like it because it cuts through the red tape and they get treated rather than fight the insurance claims adjustersMar 22 04:25
Chips_B_Malroyyes Comrade DaemonFCMar 22 04:25
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy: Isn't it horrible, having affordable insurance and not fighting bean counters?Mar 22 04:26
DaemonFCIt's a plot to destroy America!Mar 22 04:26
Chips_B_Malroynot completely sure yetMar 22 04:26
DaemonFCHave you ever slugged it out with the bean counters?Mar 22 04:27
DaemonFCor been without insurance and nobody will help you?Mar 22 04:27
Chips_B_Malroythe only thing for sure, was the the Republicans were against everythingMar 22 04:27
Chips_B_MalroyI am there right nowMar 22 04:27
DaemonFCthere's 200 Republican amendments in that billMar 22 04:27
DaemonFCPelosi made sure to mention thatMar 22 04:28
DaemonFCbut not one of them voted for itMar 22 04:28
DaemonFCThey used the amendments to stall it in the SenateMar 22 04:28
Chips_B_Malroywell, they did not want it, obviouslyMar 22 04:29
DaemonFCbut some of them were common sense or a good idea and got absorbedMar 22 04:29
DaemonFC:PMar 22 04:29
Chips_B_Malroythe repubs liked things the way they areMar 22 04:29
Chips_B_Malroyyou know, hospital, doctors, insurance companies, big pharma, all ripping you off, with lawyers thrown into the pie, if you cannot payMar 22 04:30
Chips_B_Malroytake away your life savingsMar 22 04:31
Chips_B_Malroyleave your spouse brokeMar 22 04:31
Chips_B_Malroythey had no problem with that ComradeMar 22 04:31
Chips_B_Malroyoh, can I add dentists into that mixMar 22 04:32
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy: That was some of the reason behind Bush's Privatized Social Security driveMar 22 04:32
DaemonFCthe hospitals could sue you and steal your retirement savingsMar 22 04:32
DaemonFChe never mentioned that partMar 22 04:33
Chips_B_MalroyComrade Bush was a saint, how could you say such a thing?Mar 22 04:33
DaemonFChome foreclosed? bank sues you, steals your retirementMar 22 04:33
DaemonFCcar repossessed? finance company sues you, steals your retirementMar 22 04:34
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy: See, when your car gets repossessed, they auction it offMar 22 04:34
Chips_B_MalroyThink they might have moved the tent city out here, somehow that just reminded me of Bush for some reasonMar 22 04:34
DaemonFCand whatever the difference is between the auction price and what you owe, they send you the bill forMar 22 04:35
DaemonFCso say they repo your car, you owe $10,000, it sells for $7,000Mar 22 04:35
DaemonFCyou owe them $3,000Mar 22 04:35
DaemonFCthey then sue you and take from your other assets to pay them backMar 22 04:35
Diablo-D3clearly cars and houses should be illegal thenMar 22 04:35
DaemonFCDiablo-D3: Retirement accounts should be off limits in a lawsuitMar 22 04:36
Diablo-D3yes they should beMar 22 04:36
Diablo-D3in fact, banks shouldnt be able to recoup losses at allMar 22 04:36
Diablo-D3if they were stupid enough to loan money to a credit risk, thats their faultMar 22 04:36
DaemonFCbut then to make matters worse, you pay a 15% tax penalty plus the income tax on whatever they took from your retirement savingsMar 22 04:36
DaemonFC:)Mar 22 04:36
sebsebsebDaemonFC: Now this is one nice looking Ubuntu distro,  but it's also not offical so no wonder :D 22 04:37
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Lubuntu 10.04 Beta 1 Released; Visual overview | OMG! Ubuntu! .::. Size~: 103.85 KBMar 22 04:37
DaemonFCso then you may end up owing the IRS $600 on the $3,000 they sued and took from youMar 22 04:37
sebsebseboiaohm: above link ^Mar 22 04:37
Diablo-D3I'd just report the money stolenMar 22 04:37
DaemonFCdoesn't work like thatMar 22 04:37
Chips_B_Malroymostly the banks just repo houses and cars.  but they can go after bank accounts if they sue, and can have the court garnish wages if they winMar 22 04:37
DaemonFC:)Mar 22 04:37
Diablo-D3well, it was stolenMar 22 04:38
sebsebsebDaemonFC oiaohm and yes I known about LXDE and Lubuntu for quite a whileMar 22 04:38
Diablo-D3since I didnt authorize them to steal itMar 22 04:38
DaemonFCDiablo-D3:  Not in legal terms.Mar 22 04:38
Diablo-D3lxde sucks, btwMar 22 04:38
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: no, in I have a gun and I know how to use it terms.Mar 22 04:38
DaemonFCDiablo-D3: Who are you going to shoot?Mar 22 04:38
DaemonFCthey get a court order, your bank wires them your moneyMar 22 04:38
Diablo-D3bank officers, policeMar 22 04:38
Diablo-D3anyone who walks on my landMar 22 04:38
Diablo-D3all I have to do is put up a TRESPASSERS WILL BE SHOT signMar 22 04:39
DaemonFCDiablo-D3: I'd shoot up the finance company's officeMar 22 04:39
DaemonFCif anythingMar 22 04:39
Diablo-D3try to repo my car? I'm now legally required to shoot them after putting the sign up.Mar 22 04:39
sebsebsebDaemonFC: oiaohm  Or is it offical, or sort of offical hrmMar 22 04:39
DaemonFCDiablo-D3: Actually, you're within your rights to shoot a repo man in Texas, if he comes onto your propertyMar 22 04:39
Diablo-D3if I dont shoot them, I could be liable for not shooting themMar 22 04:39
sebsebsebDiablo-D3: oiaohm  Since there's  Lubuntu/LXDE in Karmic  repo for example.Mar 22 04:39
DaemonFCOne good thing about Texas I guessMar 22 04:40
oiaohmReally Lubuntu will not address the maintainership issues effecting ubuntu.  Only effect the bundling issues.  sebsebsebMar 22 04:53
Chips_B_MalroyI seldom ever turn on the TV.  Just turned it on to watch the obama health care billMar 22 04:53
Chips_B_Malroyhalf the stations not in English hereMar 22 04:54
sebsebseboiaohm: anyway  as you were saying  last night or whateverMar 22 04:54
sebsebseboiaohm: no distro is number one for over five yearsMar 22 04:54
sebsebseboiaohm: well here's  maybe an example of the changes,  plus I gave a link earlier that no one replied to here earlier. 22 04:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: fewt@blog:~$ _: Bye Ubuntu, it could have been fun .. but it wasn't .::. Size~: 166.37 KBMar 22 04:55
oiaohmI said all have fragemented eventionally.Mar 22 04:55
oiaohmNone of the distributions have learnt from history.Mar 22 04:55
oiaohmIf you want to stay there is hard work.Mar 22 04:55
sebsebseboiaohm: anyway Ubuntu has been number one for over five years? Just over?Mar 22 04:56
Chips_B_MalroyCanonical is a private company funded by Shuttleworth, it is different than all the other examplesMar 22 04:56
Diablo-D3I thinkMar 22 04:56
oiaohmNot really redhat was king at one point Chips_B_MalroyMar 22 04:56
Diablo-D3if canonicalMar 22 04:57
Diablo-D3ever went publicMar 22 04:57
sebsebsebThey have a team for this  and that,  also it's true that most stuff that their design team has done so far, sucks reallyMar 22 04:57
Diablo-D3I'd short themMar 22 04:57
sebsebsebalso it seems basically you need to be there at the Ubuntu Developer Summit if you want this or that change in there,  anything after that, is usueaully to lateMar 22 04:57
oiaohmsebsebseb:  no point fixing front end if back end sux's sebsebsebMar 22 04:57
Chips_B_Malroynot disagreeing with you guys, its just that they have money  to do marketingMar 22 04:57
sebsebsebeven if loads of people complain about something,  which is the example wit the buttons, that loads of people are going on about nowMar 22 04:57
oiaohmRedhat got to top by marketing as well Chips_B_MalroyMar 22 04:58
oiaohmHistory is repeating.Mar 22 04:58
oiaohmUbuntu was not the first distribution todo what they did.Mar 22 04:58
sebsebseboiaohm: example of the changes?  above, I meant an example of the times slowly changingMar 22 04:58
Chips_B_MalroyYes but Red Hat really wanted corporate moneyMar 22 04:59
oiaohmThey wanted the desktop as well at one point Chips_B_MalroyMar 22 04:59
sebsebsebUbuntu 8.10 the last truely good release, except for how for example the ethernet woudn't just work on the other computer.  In fact I never bothered to really, really try and get it working,  since  9.04 was already out, by the time I had  upgraded the 8.04 that was on there.   I thought it was an issue with the update, but turns out the Live CD woudn't work either.Mar 22 04:59
oiaohmEven Ubuntu is being forced to slowly come around to the server game to make profit.Mar 22 04:59
Chips_B_MalroyThats true, I remember Red Hat (think it was version 7?) being sold in a box in CompUSAMar 22 05:00
sebsebsebI tried to get it working, but  gave up, since didn't know what I had to do, and 9.04 was already out.Mar 22 05:00
Chips_B_MalroyThere is one other good way to make money on a distroMar 22 05:00
oiaohmChips_B_Malroy:  7 and 8 were both shipped box set. Mar 22 05:00
sebsebsebChips_B_Malroy: well  depends, if they do the consumer desktop side of it properly,  they can make good money from thatMar 22 05:01
oiaohmUbuntu just has had a longer run before their mistakes started catching up with them.Mar 22 05:01
Chips_B_Malroyhave it preinstalled on an OEM and charge a few bucks to support the next models, as a service contract to the OEM'sMar 22 05:01
oiaohmRedhat use to sub branch a lot of projects as well.Mar 22 05:01
sebsebsebChips_B_Malroy: I meant services,  Ubuntu One for exampleMar 22 05:01
sebsebsebChips_B_Malroy: and the  music storeMar 22 05:01
sebsebsebyes things I don't want to use, butMar 22 05:01
sebsebsebquite a lot of people will want to use that, and payMar 22 05:02
Chips_B_MalroyUbuntu had free cd send by free mailMar 22 05:02
sebsebsebyes  2GB free space for Ubuntu One, but quite a lot of people will pay I think for more space as wellMar 22 05:02
Chips_B_Malroythats what they hadMar 22 05:02
sebsebsebChips_B_Malroy: yeah and Mandriva got it's legal issues and such,  and so Ubuntu took overMar 22 05:02
sebsebsebChips_B_Malroy: there's a good article about the history of Mandrake/Mandriva  where KDE and Gnome get mentioned a little bit as wellMar 22 05:03
Chips_B_MalroyIMO Ubuntu has only in the last couple of years caught up to some of the other distro's as far as being easy to use for newbiesMar 22 05:03
sebsebsebChips_B_Malroy: anyway I guess if  Ubuntu do Gnome  3 well soon,  they will be okMar 22 05:03
sebsebsebSeptember is Gnome 3Mar 22 05:03
Chips_B_Malroynot that they were terrible or anythingMar 22 05:03
sebsebsebto new for Ubuntu to have as default in 10.10 I guess, but  if it's a good install from the repo :)  altough other distros will also have thatMar 22 05:04
Chips_B_MalroyUbuntu is still Debian at heartMar 22 05:04
oiaohmMistake 1 you can make when making a distribution is failing to work with upstream.Mar 22 05:04
sebsebseboiaohm: yeah these recent Gnome edits uhMar 22 05:04
oiaohmEvery distribution to get to top has made that mistake.Mar 22 05:05
sebsebsebok social features may win quite a few people over to Ubuntu, but  it's a nasty Gnome edit reallyMar 22 05:05
Chips_B_Malroyoiaohm> yes, they seem to fail thereMar 22 05:05
oiaohmFirst to do it by the way was debian.Mar 22 05:05
sebsebsebalso now when me menu is on.  well  bye bye  automatic shut down feature after a minuteMar 22 05:05
sebsebsebwhen it's removedMar 22 05:05
oiaohmAnd they still have issues with working with upstream.Mar 22 05:05
sebsebsebthat's there againMar 22 05:05
Chips_B_Malroyand moving towards M$ is not going endear them to many in the Linux communityMar 22 05:05
sebsebseband they made shut down and restart, way to well  idiot profeMar 22 05:06
sebsebsebin 10.04Mar 22 05:06
sebsebsebhowever remove me menu, and it's like beforeMar 22 05:06
sebsebseband they have linked me menu, and their old edited fusa  together, which I don't like much at all,  but I would nromalely just remove that anyway,  shut down and log out in system menu.  and  sound  config in the envolope uh.  yes little things,  but little things that matter to some of us and a lotMar 22 05:07
sebsebsebthose were just examples, quite a few things that I don't like about 10.04.Mar 22 05:07
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] National Free Software coalition formed #india #foss #freesoftwareMar 22 05:08
sebsebseboiaohm: Well  it will be interesting when 10.04 final comes out,  espesailly if those buttons are still on the left.Mar 22 05:08
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy: The health care bill has been causing insurance stocks to climbMar 22 05:08
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Chips_B_MalroyThey will be a shift, depending on what happens to OpensuseMar 22 05:09
DaemonFCobviously the investors know it's going to be a money makerMar 22 05:09
sebsebsebChips_B_Malroy: A shift, you mean another distro might become number one?Mar 22 05:09
sebsebsebthis year?Mar 22 05:09
Chips_B_MalroyIt a huge tax DaemonFC, and the recipents are the Insurance companies, no matter if you think its a good thing or not.Mar 22 05:09
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sebsebseb_goblin: hrmMar 22 05:10
sebsebseb_goblin: up  rather early I assume?Mar 22 05:10
sebsebsebwhere as some of us haven't even gone to bed yet since...Mar 22 05:11
_goblinyeahMar 22 05:11
_goblinsort ofMar 22 05:11
_goblinhavent been to bed and wont nowMar 22 05:11
sebsebseb_goblin: ohMar 22 05:11
sebsebsebhow come?Mar 22 05:11
_goblinlads got a cough....Mar 22 05:11
Chips_B_Malroysebsebseb>its possible.  As oiaohm says.  Ubuntu still has money behind it.  But the future of Suse is not certain.  Will opensuse that is.  What would happen to Suse if the successor to Novell basically stops development?Mar 22 05:11
sebsebsebChips_B_Malroy: then if Ubuntu mess up a lot at the  same timeMar 22 05:12
oiaohmOpensuse is not a key distribution Chips_B_MalroyMar 22 05:12
Chips_B_Malroythose open suse users have to go somewhere, I doubt it will be UbuntuMar 22 05:12
sebsebsebChips_B_Malroy: I guess  Mint might hit off, but mgith have to end up getting based on Debian instead of  UbuntuMar 22 05:12
oiaohmIf suse disappears no major lose.Mar 22 05:12
sebsebsebalso Fedora could hit offMar 22 05:12
oiaohmMost likely fedora or some other main will pick them up.Mar 22 05:13
DaemonFCI have some weird freaky shit going onMar 22 05:13
sebsebseband  Mandriva could maybe get another chance at becoming number one, but  if not well number two seems more likelyhMar 22 05:13
oiaohmI know this is sad to say I really do hope to see suse no more.Mar 22 05:13
DaemonFCand I'd suspect it's going to need antibiotics to kill itMar 22 05:13
oiaohmLot of things suse did were walled garden methods and not working with upstream.Mar 22 05:13
sebsebseboiaohm: I know it's sad to say,  but when I think about it,  if  Ubuntu keeps on having this and that,  in there new releases, that I don't likeMar 22 05:14
Chips_B_Malroyoiaohm> If suse disappears no major lose"   well, I kinda agree, but would not want to insult any of their usersMar 22 05:14
sebsebseboiaohm: I hope they mess up as wellMar 22 05:14
sebsebseboiaohm: wellMar 22 05:14
sebsebsebI want Desktop Linux to hit offMar 22 05:14
DaemonFCSuse could survive NovellMar 22 05:14
sebsebsebwhich distro isn't really relivantMar 22 05:14
Chips_B_MalroyDaemonFC> Suse could survive Novell"  That is the most likely caseMar 22 05:15
oiaohmWe need distribution deaths any how.Mar 22 05:15
sebsebseboiaohm: Still got Ubuntu on the other computer,  and  yes it will get upgraded to 10.04,  why though simple,  since I only know Ubuntu properly at the momentMar 22 05:15
oiaohmI know that is savage to say.Mar 22 05:15
Chips_B_MalroyNo, bring back Kanotix!Mar 22 05:15
oiaohmWe cannot keep on justifying the fanned out development we have.Mar 22 05:15
sebsebseboiaohm:  plus  I think  one of the users might use the social features, but if not,  I will think more about putting Mandriva on thereMar 22 05:15
sebsebseb_goblin: you got work today or not?Mar 22 05:16
oiaohmKDE 4.x is bring the social features to all KDE based distributions.Mar 22 05:16
sebsebseboiaohm: yeah there's that as well, KDE 4 already has somethingMar 22 05:17
oiaohmThe normal cycle is gnome distribution at top then replaced by a KDE one.Mar 22 05:17
oiaohmI really would like to see another WM get in that loop.Mar 22 05:17
oiaohmIt would be funny if suse died and KDE decided to straight up offer a distribution.Mar 22 05:17
oiaohmIe lets cut out the middle men problems.Mar 22 05:18
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] and good old O2 Broadband is playing up again......on going saga now. As soon as our building work is done,Im changing to another provider.Mar 22 05:18
Chips_B_MalroyFedora or Mandrivia would most likely pick up most of the suse users if it diedMar 22 05:18
oiaohmThat is part of the problem we have desktop designers and distributions are two different entities.Mar 22 05:18
sebsebseboiaohm: I read a comment earlier that  said some stuff and this basically or well yeah this.  Mandriva 2010 is what Ubuntu should have beenMar 22 05:19
sebsebsebMandriva 2010 is greatMar 22 05:19
sebsebsebUbuntu 9.10 isn'tMar 22 05:19
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] I'll also make it my mission to warn people off them. My experiences are not unique (from talking to other customers) #o2 #failMar 22 05:19
sebsebsebUbuntu 10.04 won't be eitherMar 22 05:19
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sebsebseb9.04 was quite good really,  except for the fusa edits,  fast user account switcher,  that also resulted in shut down and log out being removed from system menu (hrm at the amount of times I have typed this kind of thing on IRC)Mar 22 05:19
oiaohmThing most people don't see is every time a walled garden develop distribution has falling the remaining distributions pickup features from there developers and users.Mar 22 05:20
sebsebseboiaohm: Chips_B_Malroy  anyway it's refreshing I think to read negative Ubuntu stuff, even though all of it isn't really fairMar 22 05:20
oiaohmReally SUSE users end up at Fedora with the strong upstream first policy would improve some things.Mar 22 05:21
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] It seems that Israel are in the process of reducing their international supporters to the USA Republican Party. #Palestine #occupationMar 22 05:21
sebsebsebrefreshing  these days, since I am not that keen on it myself these days, and  well it's still got a huge following of people who think it is great,  well for now anywayMar 22 05:21
sebsebseband I mean people that know about other distro'sMar 22 05:21
oiaohmYes same with redhat and mandrake when they were at top.Mar 22 05:22
oiaohmSame with debian and slackware as well.Mar 22 05:22
oiaohmits nothing strange.Mar 22 05:22
Chips_B_Malroysebsebseb>don't get me wrong, I don't hate Ubuntu at all.  I dislike the moving towards MS, the yahoo/bing deal. and i dislike the mono embraceing.  So I don't use it.Mar 22 05:23
sebsebsebChips_B_Malroy: yes I don't hate it eitherMar 22 05:23
sebsebsebI am just starting to dislike it much moreMar 22 05:23
sebsebsebstarting with 9.04Mar 22 05:23
oiaohmI hate how poor Ubuntu quality control and upstream work is.Mar 22 05:23
sebsebsebthen there was stuff in 9.10 that I didn't like as well,  not all of it Ubuntu's fault, for example the new GDMMar 22 05:23
Chips_B_MalroyI could use it.  In fact I would use it instead of winders any dayMar 22 05:23
oiaohmI always complained at debian about it.Mar 22 05:23
oiaohmBut ubuntu managed todo it worse than debian.Mar 22 05:23
sebsebseband  now well 10.04 development  I am not keen on 10.04 at allMar 22 05:24
sebsebsebI have been virtual machince trying itMar 22 05:24
sebsebsebquite a bit here and thereMar 22 05:24
sebsebsebI still got Beta 1 ISO to download to try new installer, but  I  been using an updated daily build recently.  and I have done all the other ISO's  in vm already.Mar 22 05:24
sebsebsebsince alpha 1,  so alpha 1,   2,  and 3Mar 22 05:25
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oiaohmBasically I see the signs of a dieing distribution in ubuntu.Mar 22 05:25
Chips_B_Malroyall of us have our preferences, and mine are several before Ubuntu, but that does not make it a terrible distroMar 22 05:25
sebsebsebChips_B_Malroy: yeah I would use Ubuntu instead of Windows as well,  but  to be honest their are certain things I like about Windows,  graphical things thoughMar 22 05:25
oiaohmUsers only put up with being maltreated for so long.Mar 22 05:25
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] @_Goblin lol, you have been threatening to change provider since I have known you :)Mar 22 05:26
sebsebseboiaohm: I am seeing those signs more as well nowMar 22 05:26
oiaohmThing is those signs show up well before it becomes critical.Mar 22 05:26
sebsebseboiaohm: the button stuff is a good example,  I still haven't read loads of those comments,  shuttleworths reply though yesMar 22 05:26
Chips_B_MalroyBut having said that about Ubuntu, I could have said the same thing about OpenSuse, Linspire, Turbolinux, etcMar 22 05:27
oiaohmif management of distribution responed to them correctly no harm comes.Mar 22 05:27
Chips_B_Malroyyes, I would have used them too before windersMar 22 05:27
oiaohmYes long list of historic failures Chips_B_MalroyMar 22 05:27
oiaohmHistory does for tell the future if no one learns from it.Mar 22 05:28
Chips_B_Malroyand for me, Ubuntu is close to being on that listMar 22 05:28
sebsebsebChips_B_Malroy: Ubuntu has more users than MandrivaMar 22 05:28
sebsebseband if most of the users get unhappy with itMar 22 05:28
oiaohmUbuntu still has about 2 years before it will reach critical.Mar 22 05:29
sebsebsebwell I assume Ubuntu has more users than Mandriva hadMar 22 05:29
sebsebsebwhen it was number one I meanMar 22 05:29
sebsebsebanyway  people read the webMar 22 05:29
oiaohmIe point of no return.Mar 22 05:29
sebsebsebweb has taken off much more, since Mandriva was number oneMar 22 05:29
Chips_B_MalroyMy brother loves UbuntuMar 22 05:29
sebsebsebpeople will search for Ubuntu and get negative stuff as well as postiveMar 22 05:29
oiaohmThe thing is the Ubuntu people who leave it will most likely leave to other distributions.Mar 22 05:30
sebsebseboiaohm: yesMar 22 05:30
oiaohmProblem is 1 person leaving can take like 20 to thirty others with them.Mar 22 05:30
sebsebsebthat's already happening more nowMar 22 05:30
Chips_B_Malroyguess it could be worse, since Ubuntu is based on Debian I am able to give him some tech supportMar 22 05:30
oiaohmIn the open source world.Mar 22 05:30
oiaohmSo it acclerates.Mar 22 05:31
sebsebseboiaohm: yes blog enteriesMar 22 05:31
sebsebsebpeople complaining about UbuntuMar 22 05:31
sebsebseb saying they are leavingMar 22 05:31
sebsebsebwe have the web nowMar 22 05:31
sebsebsebwell web was there when Mandriva was number oneMar 22 05:31
oiaohmEven that Ubuntu has huge numbers of people.Mar 22 05:31
sebsebsebjust not as usedMar 22 05:31
sebsebsebweb is rather powerful at getting messages out to many peopleMar 22 05:31
oiaohmIt will not take long for them to disappear.Mar 22 05:31
oiaohmBasically Ubuntu can fall faster than it got there.Mar 22 05:32
sebsebsebI  guess Ubuntu people will go to MintMar 22 05:32
sebsebsebor  DebianMar 22 05:32
oiaohmMany times faster.Mar 22 05:32
sebsebsebor FedoraMar 22 05:32
oiaohmThe normal distribution break up.Mar 22 05:32
sebsebsebsome will go to or back to MandrivaMar 22 05:32
oiaohmYou can take the top 20 off distro watch and that is where about 90 percent of them will go.Mar 22 05:32
oiaohmTo one of them.Mar 22 05:33
oiaohmThe remaining 10 percent will go to something odd ball.Mar 22 05:33
Chips_B_MalroyDebian requires a little more knownledge to setup than Ubuntu for newbies.  But yes its far better IMOMar 22 05:33
oiaohmThat is basically the normal distribution by by break down.Mar 22 05:33
Chips_B_MalroySidux is not for newbies, its based on DebianMar 22 05:33
Chips_B_MalroyI use Mar 22 05:34
oiaohmIf it be suse if its ubuntu fails the breakdown basically never changes.Mar 22 05:34
sebsebseboiaohm: yeah Suse :(Mar 22 05:34
Chips_B_Malroysimplymepis which is based on debian, its a newbie distroMar 22 05:34
sebsebsebwould be interesting opensuse and Ubuntu die or pretty much die at same timeMar 22 05:34
Chips_B_MalroyKanotix was somewhat easy too, based on DebianMar 22 05:34
oiaohmReally you don't understand the effects of deaths.Mar 22 05:35
oiaohmOne death started debians graphical installer.Mar 22 05:35
Chips_B_Malroywhat other distro's are based on Debian not Ubuntu, that are for Newbies?Mar 22 05:35
oiaohmThe scary result is the death of Ubuntu and suse might make debian user friendly.Mar 22 05:35
sebsebsebChips_B_Malroy: Knoppix?Mar 22 05:35
sebsebsebOk it's a Live CDMar 22 05:35
sebsebseb,but you can install onto your hard disk as wellMar 22 05:36
oiaohmRemember deaths cause change.Mar 22 05:36
oiaohmSo looking at what is there now.  Is basically going to tell you nothing.Mar 22 05:36
sebsebseboiaohm: That's a pointMar 22 05:36
sebsebsebUbuntu diesMar 22 05:36
Chips_B_MalroyKnoppix had this weird installer, and many hacks as it really was meant to run off a live cd only.  Not sure what the new versions are like?Mar 22 05:36
sebsebsebDebian is more likely to become properly user friendlyMar 22 05:36
oiaohmPeople would have got more skill from using ubuntu so taking on Debian to some of the is possiable.Mar 22 05:37
sebsebseb,but whilst not doing Ubuntu's mistakesMar 22 05:37
oiaohmAnd that brings the ideas of ubuntu back to debian.Mar 22 05:37
sebsebseboiaohm: or some other distro will be created similar to Ubuntu, but not with it's mistakesMar 22 05:37
oiaohmBasically death of a distribution is good.Mar 22 05:37
oiaohmSeams strange but it is good.Mar 22 05:38
sebsebseboiaohm: times change yeahMar 22 05:38
sebsebseboiaohm: also yeahMar 22 05:38
sebsebsebthis is how it used to be I guessMar 22 05:38
sebsebsebpeople wouldMar 22 05:38
sebsebsebfind out about distros then pick oneMar 22 05:38
sebsebseboiaohm: well that's how it was for me in 2004Mar 22 05:38
Chips_B_Malroyoiaohm> Basically death of a distribution is good."  they we should encourage Jono to have Mark add even more Mono stuff Mar 22 05:38
sebsebseboiaohm: now days loads of people don't really find out about distros, instead they just go for Ubuntu,  since it's the most popular on the desktop at the momentMar 22 05:39
Chips_B_Malroybut its Suse thats in more imediate trouble of dieing right nowMar 22 05:39
sebsebsebChips_B_Malroy: Suse dieing will be a good thing I guessMar 22 05:39
sebsebsebSuse users use RPMMar 22 05:39
oiaohmSuse guys have created lot of good things.Mar 22 05:39
sebsebsebthey will probably want to go to a distro that also uses RPM?Mar 22 05:39
oiaohmIt would be good to see those upstream and spreed.Mar 22 05:39
oiaohmsebsebseb:  most likely return to there parent ie redhat.Mar 22 05:40
sebsebseband the two other popular  RPM distros   for everyone, Fedora and Mandriva?Mar 22 05:40
sebsebseboiaohm: well Fedora thenMar 22 05:40
oiaohmsuse branched off from redhat in the first place.Mar 22 05:40
sebsebsebsince Redhat Linux doesn'st exist anymoreMar 22 05:40
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sebsebseband  RHEL is EnterpriseMar 22 05:40
sebsebseboiaohm: and Fedora is the community version nowMar 22 05:41
oiaohmLot of SUSE users are EnterpriseMar 22 05:41
sebsebseboiaohm: your on about SuseMar 22 05:41
oiaohmNot home users.Mar 22 05:41
sebsebsebI am on about OpenSuseMar 22 05:41
sebsebsebI see OpenSuse as more of a home user distro, but I also don't know much about itMar 22 05:41
oiaohmEven opensuse lot of them are cheep enterprise that cannot afford suse.Mar 22 05:41
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sebsebsebSuse itself might die, but OpenSuse is a community one that can live onMar 22 05:41
Chips_B_Malroycentos could also pick up a few suse usersMar 22 05:41
sebsebsebSuse is like FedoraMar 22 05:42
sebsebsebOpenSuse that isMar 22 05:42
sebsebsebif  Redhat die, Fedora can still live onMar 22 05:42
oiaohmcentos core is basically FedoraMar 22 05:42
sebsebsebif  Novell die,  OpenSuse can still live onMar 22 05:42
oiaohmReally it does not work that way.  sebsebsebMar 22 05:42
oiaohmIf you don't have full time developers supporting you die.Mar 22 05:43
Chips_B_Malroyits possible suse will live on, but without big funding, its chances of maintaining its current level of membership is not goodMar 22 05:43
oiaohmHeck the strangest one the suse guys could end up is on meegoMar 22 05:43
sebsebseboiaohm: meego?Mar 22 05:43
oiaohmmeego has intel and nokia behind it.Mar 22 05:43
sebsebseboh  the yeahMar 22 05:44
sebsebsebIntel had it's oneMar 22 05:44
sebsebsebNokia had it'sMar 22 05:44
sebsebsebthen they got togetherMar 22 05:44
sebsebsebI think I read something,  about the one your on aboutMar 22 05:44
oiaohmNow that would be a scary merge.Mar 22 05:44
Chips_B_MalroyMiguel could go to Ubuntu, MS, or maybe AccessMar 22 05:44
oiaohmmeego and opensuse merging.Mar 22 05:44
sebsebsebChips_B_Malroy: Access?Mar 22 05:45
Chips_B_MalroyAccess co ltdMar 22 05:45
oiaohmThat is also another possiablity.Mar 22 05:45
Chips_B_MalroyLimoMar 22 05:45
sebsebsebChips_B_Malroy: I don't know who you meanMar 22 05:45
oiaohmwhen a distribution is left without funding.  Mergers have been known to happen.Mar 22 05:45
sebsebseboiaohm: yeah Ubuntu devs will go to Debian if Ubuntu diesMar 22 05:45
sebsebseboiaohm: Debian will pick up some of the Ubuntu featuresMar 22 05:45
sebsebsebor  maybe well edited versions or somethingMar 22 05:45
sebsebsebtake Softare Centre for exampleMar 22 05:46
Roebotwhen have mergers happened? Example?Mar 22 05:46
sebsebseboiaohm: apparantly Debian was going to maybe use Software Centre anyway.  right let's say  Ubuntu dies when Software Centre is offering commercial software for  people to buyMar 22 05:46
sebsebseboiaohm: right well that would be against the Debian philosophey to have such an app in Debian if it offers commercial software for people to buy,  however Debian could  have an edited version that does not have that feature.Mar 22 05:47
Chips_B_Malroylooking at the distrowatch hits, Fedora and Mint close 2nd and 3rdMar 22 05:47
sebsebsebChips_B_Malroy: people that recommend Mint get at me a bitMar 22 05:47
oiaohmTo get to meego there were  4 groups of merges.  Roebot.   Whitebox forked off from Redhat those developers merged back into fedora. Mar 22 05:48
sebsebsebusing  stuff that is Ubuntu based what's the point?  may as well use the real thing,  or Debian or something Debain based?  or some other distro insteadMar 22 05:48
sebsebseboiaohm: if Ubuntu is on the verge of dieing,  they could  probably  pick up some of the Mint featuresMar 22 05:48
RoebotWhy would you think Ubuntu is "dying"Mar 22 05:48
Chips_B_Malroywell Mint is ubuntu will some of the universe stuff already installed.  so some of the work has already been done for youMar 22 05:49
sebsebsebChips_B_Malroy: it's a bit more then thatMar 22 05:49
sebsebseband not just themeMar 22 05:49
Chips_B_MalroysureMar 22 05:49
oiaohmquite simple its broken the basic rules that lead to distribution death.  RoebotMar 22 05:49
RoebotI'm not familiar with thosMar 22 05:49
RoebotI'm not familiar with thoseMar 22 05:49
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oiaohm1) Work effectively with upstream.  Failure todo so ends up with broken and unstable packages upsetting users.Mar 22 05:50
Chips_B_Malroy <oiaohm> quite simple its broken the basic rules that lead to distribution death."   I don't think its there yet, but I would agree that the direction Mark is taking the distro might be over the cliff if he continues in this Mar 22 05:50
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oiaohm2) Fail to listern to your users requests.  ie the I know better attadute that Mark recently displayed.Mar 22 05:51
oiaohm3) Failure to consider legal effects of your distributions actions.Mar 22 05:51
sebsebseboiaohm: legal effects?Mar 22 05:51
Chips_B_Malroyoiaohm> when Warren base Mepis 6 and 6.5 on ubuntu instead of Debian, we had lots more sound and hardware problems.  Mar 22 05:51
oiaohmCan you install most of those ubuntu disks if someone lets say placed a legal embargo on the use of mono sebsebseb.Mar 22 05:52
Chips_B_Malroyremember, Canonical is based on the Isle of Man, so software patents have not caught up with it yetMar 22 05:53
sebsebseboiaohm: Mono patents, that kind of thing you emanMar 22 05:53
sebsebsebmeanMar 22 05:53
RoebotHow could there be an "illegal imbargo" on monoMar 22 05:53
oiaohmIts key for legal safety that users can choose not to install things.Mar 22 05:53
sebsebsebRoebot: sure, but  Ubuntu is also in the USA and counteries liket hat with software patentsMar 22 05:53
RoebotRight...and Mono is part of an ECMA std. Mar 22 05:54
RoebotIt's a public standardMar 22 05:54
oiaohmReally simple Roebot it happens in usa imports all the time.  Blocked by customs without legal orders back it up.  RoebotMar 22 05:54
oiaohmRoebot: idiotMar 22 05:54
oiaohmECMA does not protect you from patent attack.Mar 22 05:54
Chips_B_Malroyif MS has they way you folks in the EU will soon have the benifits of software patents tooMar 22 05:54
Diablo-D3yes, what oiaohm saidMar 22 05:54
oiaohmFeatures implemented by Mono go outside what is in the ECMA standard.  RoebotMar 22 05:54
RoebotWhat patents does Mono infringe?Mar 22 05:55
Roebotoiaohm: only with the and WinformMar 22 05:55
oiaohmAsk tomtom.  They where hammered over some of them.Mar 22 05:55
oiaohmAnd they don't use or WinformsMar 22 05:55
Roebotoiaohm: tomtom was "hammered" bc of mono?Mar 22 05:55
oiaohmYep RoebotMar 22 05:55
Roebothrmm.. oiaohm I hadn't heard thatMar 22 05:56
oiaohmWhen intel refuses to ship something.Mar 22 05:56
oiaohmThat is also a bad sign.Mar 22 05:56 and winform are libs separate from mono core.Mar 22 05:56
RoebotIntel doesn't ship mono? Mar 22 05:57
oiaohmThe mono core is not 100 percent to ECMAMar 22 05:57
oiaohmso not 100 percent protected from patent attack.Mar 22 05:57
oiaohmFrom MicrosoftMar 22 05:57
RoebotIt isn't? But you said the ECMA std didn't protect from patent lawMar 22 05:57
Chips_B_MalroyI think Debain moved moonlight into the the restricted debian-multimedia repo.  separate from DebianMar 22 05:58
oiaohmThe patent protection agreement by MS that will expire soon says if it covered by ECMA they will not attack you.Mar 22 05:58
oiaohmProblem is Mono is not even protected by that.  RoebotMar 22 05:58
Chips_B_Malroybecause of patent worriesMar 22 05:58
oiaohmFailure for MS to provide a proper patent agreement is one of the biggest blockers to the uptake of .netMar 22 05:59
RoebotSo, if a company assigns IP to a standards body like ECMA you're saying they can still attack other companies for employing that spec?Mar 22 05:59
oiaohmProblem is mono is implementing outside that spec.Mar 22 05:59
oiaohmAnd have to for compadiblity.Mar 22 06:00
RoebotYou don't think the complexity of development environs and lack of platform independence is the primary deterrent of .NET uptake?Mar 22 06:00
oiaohmLack of platform independance comes from lack of developers to work on the runtime engine.Mar 22 06:00
Roebotoiaohm: so you do agree the ECMA std protects from an patent suits? Mar 22 06:00
oiaohmNo it does not RoebotMar 22 06:01
RoebotOh. I didn't know that. Mar 22 06:01
oiaohmECMA only protects you if you can implement exactly by standard and it works.Mar 22 06:01
RoebotAnd you don't think Python has any patent entanglements? Or PHP? Mar 22 06:01
oiaohm.Net that is not true.Mar 22 06:01
RoebotOr Java?Mar 22 06:01
oiaohmPython and PHP are a different case.Mar 22 06:01
RoebotSo they don't have patent entanglements?Mar 22 06:02
oiaohmBoth of them are mostly protected by prior art.Mar 22 06:02
oiaohmfrom there own source base.Mar 22 06:02
Chips_B_MalroyRoy just had a story yesterday about Miguel complaining about MS and the patentsMar 22 06:02
RoebotDid you know NAND is patentedMar 22 06:02
Roebotand that's used in every programming langMar 22 06:02
oiaohmJava was the same class as .Net  until sun did a proper patent agreement.Mar 22 06:03
oiaohmIe signed with OINMar 22 06:03
RoebotBut it has patent entanglements with many companiesMar 22 06:03
satiperaNand is patented?Mar 22 06:03
oiaohmWill that live against prior art.Mar 22 06:03
oiaohmIe most project can prove they were using that over 20 years ago RoebotMar 22 06:04
Roebotprobably not.Mar 22 06:04
oiaohmSo voiding patentMar 22 06:04
oiaohmFrom there own code bases if you include compliers.Mar 22 06:04
oiaohmPatent threats are really limited.Mar 22 06:04
RoebotLimited to Mono?Mar 22 06:04
oiaohmMono case is special because mono has not created what they are doing new.Mar 22 06:05
oiaohmThere are others that can be at risk of that as well.Mar 22 06:05
RoebotSo PHP was/is original? And so is Python and Java?Mar 22 06:05
RoebotAnd .NET.Mar 22 06:05
Roebot?Mar 22 06:05
oiaohmYou make something from a spec sheet without checking for patents you end up  in the same possiable patent hell.Mar 22 06:05
Chips_B_Malroynet is a ripoff of javaMar 22 06:06
oiaohmPHP and Python are both created from nothing languages.Mar 22 06:06
oiaohm,Net is even at risk from patents from Sun.Mar 22 06:06
Roebot.NET is a ripoff from Java. Well then wouldn't Java have prior art?Mar 22 06:06
RoebotPHP and Python are original then?Mar 22 06:07
RoebotAnd so is Java. But not .NET and Mono?Mar 22 06:07
oiaohmEver wonder why MS does not attack OpenOfficeMar 22 06:07
oiaohmSimple fact if they do they will be held to account over .Net patentsMar 22 06:07
RoebotInteresting theory.Mar 22 06:07
oiaohmNot a theory.Mar 22 06:07
oiaohmIt a matter of public record by the X ceo of SUN.Mar 22 06:08
oiaohmOpen source projects are safe from those patents.Mar 22 06:08
oiaohmDue to those being at OIN disposalMar 22 06:08
RoebotI missed that. Seems like MS Office does a pretty tidy business even with OpenOffice.Mar 22 06:08
oiaohmMS tried attacking sun over patents with OpenOfficeMar 22 06:08
RoebotI read that Microsoft is sued more than any other company on patents.Mar 22 06:08
oiaohmThey wanted sun to pay per download.Mar 22 06:09
oiaohmSo sun wanted MS to pay for ever bit of patented tech MS has breached.Mar 22 06:09
oiaohmOf Sun'sMar 22 06:09
oiaohmMS decided it would be wise to walk away.Mar 22 06:09
satiperaPatent assured destructionMar 22 06:09
oiaohmO yep.Mar 22 06:10
RoebotWow. That should have made a lot of news.Mar 22 06:10
oiaohmThinking sun still hold patents over the SMB protocal.Mar 22 06:10
oiaohmthe way MS shares files and printers.Mar 22 06:10
oiaohmBasically of orcale decides to put Ms out of business with the aquirement of sun they can.Mar 22 06:11
Chips_B_MalroyOpenOffice is safe in other ways as well.  MS Word or excel is not the first word processor or spreadsheet made. they is quite a bit of prior art out there from older programsMar 22 06:13
Chips_B_Malroy*thereMar 22 06:13
Roebotoiaohm: are you a programmer?Mar 22 06:14
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] Speaking of an all-powerful central government: When do we get our habeas corpus back?Mar 22 06:14
oiaohmsun too the simple solution we have bigger guns.  Chips_B_MalroyMar 22 06:14
oiaohmtoo/tookMar 22 06:14
*WireWulf-away is now known as WireWulfMar 22 06:14
oiaohmMostly internal and expermental stuff RoebotMar 22 06:15
RoebotAre there any computer scientists in this IRC channel? Mar 22 06:15
oiaohmI am techincally.  RoebotMar 22 06:15
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RoebotYou studied CS? Mar 22 06:15
WireWulfhehMar 22 06:15
oiaohmYep RoebotMar 22 06:15
RoebotWhere?Mar 22 06:15
oiaohmThinking I don't work using it.Mar 22 06:16
oiaohmAs I said techincally.Mar 22 06:17
RoebotJust wondering if anyone active here is a Comp Scientist.Mar 22 06:17
RoebotYou know, studied languages. Theory. Mathematics of CS. etcMar 22 06:17
oiaohmData recovery is more likely to pay my bills than computer scientiest stuff.Mar 22 06:17
oiaohmThere is a lot of theory to the CS stuff.Mar 22 06:18
RoebotSo you didn't study compilers, operating systems, comp arch, computation theory, etc...?Mar 22 06:18
oiaohmMost of it pays poorly.Mar 22 06:18
Chips_B_MalroyI did that, but I would not call myself a programarMar 22 06:18
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tessierCS is for people who want to be scientsts. Not programmers.Mar 22 06:18
oiaohmI studied complier operating systems and comp arch.    They are useful to data recovery.Mar 22 06:18
RoebotInteresting theory tessier . Mar 22 06:18
tessierA bunch of it is useful to programmers though.Mar 22 06:18
oiaohmcomputation theory and lot of other theorys are not that useful.Mar 22 06:19
satiperaRoebot  reference your earlier remark about nand patents, as long as maths or logic can be described in hardware terms is it patentable?Mar 22 06:19
tessierRoebot: Getting a degree in CS and then cranking out java hoping it doesn't get sent to India must suck.Mar 22 06:19
tessierI'm talking about being a code monkey. If you code and do CS relevant stuff that is different.Mar 22 06:19
RoebotWell, if you had studied CS wouldn't assert that PHP, Python and Java are entirely original programming languages. Mar 22 06:20
tessierI have and I don't.Mar 22 06:20
oiaohmLOL RoebotMar 22 06:20
RoebotAnd you would have a much better understanding of open standards, patents and language runtimes. Mar 22 06:20
tessierAlgol 60 all over again. Yeay.Mar 22 06:20
oiaohmI was answering from legal RoebotMar 22 06:21
oiaohmThat if you studied CS you had to have failed or your UNI was poor at it.Mar 22 06:21
tessierI wish more people would take Lisp, Prolog, etc. Neat stuff. There is a lot more to programming than C style languages.Mar 22 06:21
oiaohmStyle of langange does not make it a independant work so safe from patents.Mar 22 06:22
oiaohmThat is is a truly origninal program language ie source of it created from stract not using any docs under 20 years old.Mar 22 06:22
oiaohmThen is a original language from the point of view of law section.Mar 22 06:22
oiaohmLegal section of my CS course I did the best in RoebotMar 22 06:23
Roebotoiaohm: all those languages' constructs were conceived in academia first.Mar 22 06:23
Roebotoiaohm: where did you study?Mar 22 06:23
Roebotyou didn't sayMar 22 06:23
oiaohmAustraliaMar 22 06:23
oiaohmYou are going back before legal importance.Mar 22 06:23
Chips_B_Malroygn allMar 22 06:24
RoebotWhat University?Mar 22 06:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] @eduvid moreover, Open Standards are more important then free software ! So i do not bother about term, (as long as i use 4 freedoms)Mar 22 06:24
oiaohmIe constructs from over 20 years ago are not important when you are talking legal.Mar 22 06:24
oiaohmImport when talking history of languages.Mar 22 06:24
Roebotthey aren't prior art?Mar 22 06:24
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oiaohmimportant.Mar 22 06:24
oiaohmPrior art is only really usable if it linked to your project.Mar 22 06:25
RoebotWow! oiaohm you really don't know what you're talking about. Mar 22 06:25
oiaohmIe legal is different to background history of a language.Mar 22 06:25
Roebotnight all. Mar 22 06:26
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oiaohmI am talking about winning case.Mar 22 06:26
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WireWulfi think they bothwere idiots but heh what do i knowMar 22 06:28
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DaemonFC 22 06:42
phIRCe-BNcTitle:     Blue Indiana:: Governor Daniels signs bring-your-guns-to-work bill     .::. Size~: 76.82 KBMar 22 06:42
DaemonFC:DMar 22 06:42
DaemonFC"The law, which takes effect July 1, lets workers keep guns locked out of sight in their vehicles while parked on their employers' property."Mar 22 06:43
WireWulfDaemonFC: al law already lets you do that unless the company makes you sign something saying otherwiseMar 22 06:44
DaemonFCwrongMar 22 06:44
DaemonFCYou have to leave if the owner of the property doesn't want you there with a gunMar 22 06:45
DaemonFCthis law gives you the right to bring a loaded gun onto private property of your employerMar 22 06:45
DaemonFCand they can't say anything about itMar 22 06:45
WireWulfDaemonFC: own emploier i have issues with that is walmartMar 22 06:45
satiperaWhat is this fascination with firearms? Do not understand itMar 22 06:46
WireWulfsatipera: out in the country where i live a firearm is protectionMar 22 06:46
WireWulfi mean country as in unindustural americaMar 22 06:47
satiperaOne of the top ten laws of the internet is do not discuss guns with an nra personMar 22 06:47
WireWulfi do not like the NRAMar 22 06:47
WireWulflobbist are stupidMar 22 06:47
WireWulfi just like to use my 2nd admendment rights in the countryMar 22 06:48
DaemonFCWalmart has never said anything to me about walking around with a loaded gun in their store :)Mar 22 06:48
enthymemein fact, you arguably shouldn't enter a walmart without a loaded weapon.Mar 22 06:49
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @satipera lol...yeah, its because Im too lazy...been looking now though...think i'll go with BT package. You just watch me! :)Mar 22 06:49
WireWulfDaemonFC: they told me not to carry one in wail workingMar 22 06:49
satiperayes sure Goblin I wil believe it when it happens Mar 22 06:49
satipera:)Mar 22 06:50
DaemonFCthat's differentMar 22 06:50
DaemonFCthey have the right to tell you what to do while you're on the clockMar 22 06:50
DaemonFChow to dressMar 22 06:50
*enthymeme has quit (Quit: *thud*)Mar 22 06:50
DaemonFCdemand that you censor yourself when there's a dickhead customer screaming at youMar 22 06:51
WireWulfDaemonFC: lol thats the reason i got fired from that post :PMar 22 06:51
DaemonFCabusive customers can walk up to you and do damned near anything and you can't say anything about itMar 22 06:51
WireWulfweil that and punching a dick head bossMar 22 06:52
DaemonFCI had one that walked in when I was still an hourlyMar 22 06:52
DaemonFChe was drunkMar 22 06:52
DaemonFCand he pissed right in the middle of the aisle in frozen foodsMar 22 06:52
*WireWulf is happy not to be working at walmart anymore Mar 22 06:53
WireWulf:PMar 22 06:53
DaemonFCeven as a manager you can't tell them offMar 22 06:53
DaemonFCyou can tell them to leave or you're calling the copsMar 22 06:53
WireWulfDaemonFC: as i said i have  issues with my managers probly why i am unemployed atmMar 22 06:54
DaemonFCWhat sucks is that as middle management, you're constantly being vetoedMar 22 06:54
DaemonFCseveral times where I fired someone and the store or district manager hired them right backMar 22 06:54
DaemonFCput them on another shift thoughMar 22 06:54
DaemonFCone of them told the DM that he was in the hospital and that's why he was out and no call no showMar 22 06:56
DaemonFCshe didn't even ask for proofMar 22 06:56
DaemonFCnext day, back to workMar 22 06:56
DaemonFCit sucks when you have upper management vetoing things you doMar 22 06:57
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] Tonight I will leave for ShriGangaNagar for #olpc deployment #indiaMar 22 06:57
DaemonFCundermines your authorityMar 22 06:57
DaemonFC"If mom says no, ask dad" is basically carrying over to the workplaceMar 22 06:57
DaemonFCkeep asking different managers until one gives you the answer you wantMar 22 06:58
satiperaDaemon the moral of your story is take work seriously until you are banging your head against a brick wall then pretend to take it seriouslyMar 22 07:00
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] @_Goblin I can't complain about mine I am getting 6.5Mb download regular occasionally higher, they say I should only get 3.6 on 8 max so winMar 22 07:07
satiperaOkay I am a tech idiot how did my tweet appear here?Mar 22 07:09
Diablo-D3magic.Mar 22 07:09
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satiperaCheers Diablo for that techy answerMar 22 07:11
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] mouseover hyperlink popup is the most user-UN-friendly thing over website. Do not know why website use them #unabletoscrollMar 22 07:17
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Omar87Hi all.Mar 22 07:20
Omar87So, it seems as though Ubuntu is no longer what its name indicates, huh? -_-Mar 22 07:21
satiperaI can only remember what the name means loosely, please elaborate Mar 22 07:22
Omar87satipera, I mean the term Ubuntu simply means: "I am what am because of who we all are" Or "Generosity and sharing.. freedom.. etc."Mar 22 07:25
Omar87But what I can see from the Ubuntu community is almost the total opposite.Mar 22 07:26
Omar87Thousands of people are upset after some of the decision made by the Ubuntu dev team (Most importantly, the Mono infection), but all these complaints have fallen on deaf ears.Mar 22 07:27
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] Charlie Wolf on the telly complete with stars and stripes lapel badge, slagging off the newly passed health bill.Mar 22 07:28
Diablo-D3satipera: btw, apparently the twitter bot is now following your twitters.Mar 22 07:28
Diablo-D3you must have said something Roy likedMar 22 07:28
Omar87Hundreds of complaints have been raised asking the Ubuntu dev team to dump mono, but they were all ignored.Mar 22 07:29
Diablo-D3Ubuntu is a Microsoft scamMar 22 07:29
Diablo-D3Ive been saying this for awhileMar 22 07:29
Omar87Diablo-D3, it makes me sad.Mar 22 07:29
Diablo-D3it makes me lolMar 22 07:30
Diablo-D3the harder microsoft tries to waste money the... uh... more money they will wasteMar 22 07:30
*Diablo-D3 was going somewhere witty with that, really!Mar 22 07:30
Omar87Diablo-D3, I'm trying to find another decent distro that respects itself.Mar 22 07:30
Diablo-D3Omar87: debianMar 22 07:30
Omar87Diablo-D3, really?Mar 22 07:30
Diablo-D3which Ive been using longer than 99% of people have been using linux.Mar 22 07:30
satiperaDiablo I thought I was just sounding of into the void did not realise it was coming here, how can you tell about twitter bots?Mar 22 07:31
Diablo-D3satipera: anyone can follow you.Mar 22 07:31
Diablo-D3Roy has his bot setup to repeat specific people into hereMar 22 07:31
satiperaI seeMar 22 07:32
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] Uncut Video of Venkatesh Hariharan (RedHat) on His Journey of Open Source 22 07:33
phIRCe-BNcTitle:         Uncut Video of Venkatesh Hariharan (RedHat) on His Journey of Open Source - LUG@IITD Community Blog     .::. Size~: 27 KBMar 22 07:33
Diablo-D3the bot also follows me on identicaMar 22 07:33
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Nice work, @BarackObama, nice work. :-)Mar 22 07:34
Diablo-D3like, watch thisMar 22 07:35
*Diablo-D3 hits the bot with a batMar 22 07:36
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Obama got the Healthcare bill passed. The bill may suck, but its better than letting the #Republicans continue on long after #BushMar 22 07:37
Diablo-D3tada.Mar 22 07:37
satiperaAs usual I live and learnMar 22 07:38
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] RT: @eduvid: Uncut Video of Venkatesh Hariharan (RedHat) on His Journey of Open Source #foss #opensource #india #redhatMar 22 07:40
phIRCe-BNcTitle:         Uncut Video of Venkatesh Hariharan (RedHat) on His Journey of Open Source - LUG@IITD Community Blog     .::. Size~: 26.87 KBMar 22 07:40
Omar87Okay guys, here's something interesting for you. Go to and check out the post number "24".Mar 22 07:40
phIRCe-BNcTitle: WikiLeaks .::. Size~: 41.75 KBMar 22 07:40
*sebsebseb has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)Mar 22 07:40
Diablo-D3Omar87: uh, there is no post numbesMar 22 07:41
Omar87Diablo-D3, slide down.Mar 22 07:41
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Omar87Diablo-D3, You'll find them, I'm sure.Mar 22 07:41
Diablo-D3no, there are _dates_Mar 22 07:41
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Government Cronyism Watch: #Microsoft Inside FCC, California, Washington, and #Bahrain 22 07:42
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Government Cronyism Watch: Microsoft Inside FCC, California, Washington, and Bahrain | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 107.74 KBMar 22 07:42
Omar87Diablo-D3, there are numbers too, just keep going down.Mar 22 07:42
Diablo-D3I cant go down any farther!Mar 22 07:42
Diablo-D3there is no post 24!Mar 22 07:42
*amarsh04 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)Mar 22 07:42
Diablo-D3Omar87: 24. Feb. 2010. is a date!Mar 22 07:43
Omar87Diablo-D3: okay... sorry. My mistake.Mar 22 07:43
Omar87Diablo-D3, yes, that's it.Mar 22 07:43
Diablo-D3we're all quite aware of the Cryptome incidentMar 22 07:44
Diablo-D3Slashdot covered it alreadyMar 22 07:44
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] Uncut Video of Shabrish - explaining IT@School Kerala #foss #freesoftware #ict 22 07:47
Omar87Diablo-D3, so MS's been "spying" on it's users for what is claimed to be "Law Enforcement purposes"?Mar 22 07:47
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*phIRCe-BNc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)Mar 22 07:47
Omar87Or what's the matter exactly?Mar 22 07:47
Diablo-D3Omar87: basically.Mar 22 07:47
Diablo-D3but only if you use microsoft services.Mar 22 07:47
Omar87Diablo-D3, of course.Mar 22 07:48
Diablo-D3which no one doesMar 22 07:48
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] Uncut Videos of Guru explaining Public Software & #foss #video #publicsoftwareMar 22 07:48
Omar87Diablo-D3, wait, what do you mean no one does?Mar 22 07:48
*amarsh04 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)Mar 22 07:48
Diablo-D3Omar87: until this came up, I wasnt aware microsoft even had services outside of msn chat and hotmailMar 22 07:48
Omar87Diablo-D3, I see.Mar 22 07:49
Diablo-D3you know why microsoft is doomed?Mar 22 07:49
Diablo-D3no one actually gives a shit about them.Mar 22 07:49
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Omar87Diablo-D3, I wish what you just said was 100% true.Mar 22 07:51
Diablo-D3the people who do, no one cares about _them_Mar 22 07:51
Diablo-D3theres a huge "we just dont have fucking time to baby sit microsoft shit" movement going onMar 22 07:51
Omar87Diablo-D3, I know people who are basically dying to get a job and Microzeft ("Zeft" = "Junk" In Arabic) Mar 22 07:52
Diablo-D3you mean _at_ Microsoft?Mar 22 07:52
Diablo-D3who caresMar 22 07:52
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Diablo-D3hell, even I'd work there if they'd pay me enoughMar 22 07:52
Omar87Diablo-D3, yes, *at* Microzeft.Mar 22 07:52
Diablo-D3seriouslyMar 22 07:52
Diablo-D3Bill could call me up right this secondMar 22 07:53
Diablo-D3and offer me a jobMar 22 07:53
Diablo-D3I'd probably take itMar 22 07:53
Diablo-D3and Im the most vocal Microsoft hater on the planetMar 22 07:53
Omar87Diablo-D3, well, it's never been about money for me.Mar 22 07:54
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Diablo-D3Im not going to work for them for free.Mar 22 07:54
Omar87Diablo-D3: aside from money, there's something called "Ethics", ya know.Mar 22 07:54
Diablo-D3Ethics doesnt come into thisMar 22 07:54
Omar87Diablo-D3, oh sure it does.Mar 22 07:55
Diablo-D3In fact, if anything, any software I'm assigned to would instantly get better overnight.Mar 22 07:55
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Diablo-D3imagine a world where microsoft stops shoveling shitMar 22 07:55
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Omar87Diablo-D3, it sure would have been a much peaceful world.Mar 22 07:57
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Diablo-D3oh well, Microsoft is dead.Mar 22 08:01
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Make a Difference: Ada Lovelace Day - #equality show your support! #womeninopensource #ubuntu #genderMar 22 08:03
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] @jonobacon Is Ubuntu no longer what it indicates is it?Mar 22 08:04
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] Charlie wolf update. He described Rachel Corrie, an American peace activist who had been killed by an Israeli military bulldozer, as scum.Mar 22 08:09
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] @jonobacon Is Ubuntu no longer what its name indicates it is?Mar 22 08:09
*WireWulf is now known as WireWulf-awayMar 22 08:11
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] @Omar_S_Hafez: eh?Mar 22 08:12
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] @jonobacon I mean Ubuntu is supposed to be a distro by the community and for the community. But somehow the truth doesn't seem that way.Mar 22 08:15
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] is the number one Indian job website related to Free and Open Source ! #foss #jobs #top #india #opensourceMar 22 08:18
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] @jonobacon Lots of voices have been shouting about many issues in the Ubuntu distro. (E.g, Mono, left-side buttons.. etc). but to no avail.Mar 22 08:18
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] @jonobacon do think there's an explanation for that?Mar 22 08:19
Omar87Is Mandriva as heavy as I think it is?Mar 22 08:20
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Pretty stoked, Jonathan Ross (@Wossy), one of my fave celebs over in Blighty re-tweeted about Ada Lovelace Day - what a legend. :-)Mar 22 08:22
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] @Omar_S_Hafez: I think Ubuntu absolutely still stands by it's ethos. :-)Mar 22 08:23
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] @jonobacon I personally believe Ubuntu is no longer an Ubuntu, imho. Or at least the Microsoft version of "Ubuntu". -_-Mar 22 08:28
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] @jonobacon I personally believe Ubuntu is no longer an Ubuntu, imho. Or at least the Microsoft definition of "Ubuntu". -_-Mar 22 08:29
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] For those who are totally new to FOSS - GNUbie - from zero to topMar 22 08:39
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oiaohm  Guess this is the only way MS can fight the incoming wall.Mar 22 08:58
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] The last you will hear from me today about Charlie Wolf 22 09:01
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] In Fight Against #Google , #Microsoft Adopts #China Strategy #communism #censorship #linuxMar 22 09:04
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] ACS:Law - Back in the news again! #acs:law #acslaw #p2p #file sharing #bittorrent #piratebay #tpbMar 22 09:09
oiaohm  Yes kexi will be back soonMar 22 09:10
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] Regarding Linux Install Mela - Delhi Jamia 27 march 2010 22 09:41
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] A Republican on the consequences of "overheated talk" and failure to compromise: 22 09:48
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Proxy Fights Against #Google in the United States #myTriggers #lobby #washington #yahooMar 22 10:05
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Curious how #OSX 10.5 runs on #Powerbook #G4 with 512MB of RAM? Trust me, it's no picnic. Had to remove faulty 1GB DIMM. #firstworldproblemsMar 22 10:20
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #VMware ’s Parent Company Promotes #Microsoft Exchange, So What About #Zimbra ? 22 10:30
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Just bought my ticket for the Rathole Radio Gig on 30th April,the night before #oggcamp ! Rock on!Mar 22 10:54
schestowitztessier: are you around?Mar 22 10:56
schestowitzThe server seems to have fallen asleep, I'll try to restart apacheMar 22 10:56
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] I kicked off "phoronix-test-suite cpu" on a machine I'm testing for @uupc. It's still downloading stuff now, 12 hours later :SMar 22 11:14
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oiaohm  Remember what I said about death of distrobutions making the reset of the distrobutions stronger.  Same applies to groupware schestowitzMar 22 11:57
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Novell rejects 'inadequate' $2B takeover bid from hedge fund. > 22 12:01
Omar87Where's PhIRC?Mar 22 12:04
*WireWulf-away is now known as WireWulfMar 22 12:18
Omar87schestowitz, ping.Mar 22 12:40
WireWulfweeeMar 22 12:43
WireWulfsomeone just fucking shoot meMar 22 12:43
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phIRCe-BNcHello World!Mar 22 12:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle:     freenode: frequently-asked questions     .::. Size~: 74.26 KBMar 22 12:57
*schestowitz throws a pillow at WireWulfMar 22 12:58
WireWulfwtf a pillowMar 22 12:58
*WireWulf is now known as WireWulf-awayMar 22 13:00
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] A question for the people of Jordan: "Ever wondered why Microsoft's clowns are much more active in YU than in JUST?"Mar 22 13:03
Omar87schestowitz, ping. :)Mar 22 13:03
schestowitzHeyMar 22 13:08
schestowitzWireWulf-away: a pillow full of rocksMar 22 13:08
schestowitzThe rocks though are made of feltMar 22 13:08
Omar87schestowitz, I'm planning on giving a couple lectures about Software Freedom in my college soon.Mar 22 13:09
Omar87schestowitz, can you please help me a little with the material?Mar 22 13:09
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MinceRgeekingsMar 22 13:14
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Tried out VDR and surprised how quick/easy it is to get up and running 22 13:19
phIRCe-BNcTitle: VDR Wiki .::. Size~: 19.46 KBMar 22 13:19
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft and #Apple Still Intend to Use Software Patents Against #GNU #Linux #swpats #europe #googleMar 22 13:20
Omar87schestowitz, are you there?Mar 22 13:20
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft and Apple Still Intend to Use Software Patents Against GNU/Linux | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 108.23 KBMar 22 13:20
schestowitzMar 22 13:21
schestowitz[13:09] <Omar87> schestowitz, I'm planning on giving a couple lectures about Software Freedom in my college soon.Mar 22 13:21
schestowitz[13:09] <Omar87> schestowitz, can you please help me a little with the material?Mar 22 13:21
schestowitzsure.Mar 22 13:21
schestowitzExcellent.Mar 22 13:21
schestowitzTalk about the merits of FOSSMar 22 13:21
schestowitzAnd success storiesMar 22 13:21
schestowitzuse "Google"Mar 22 13:21
schestowitzNow as a search engine I mean.... as an example of how a company can be as big as Microsoft within 10 years thanks to GNU and LinuxMar 22 13:21
schestowitzShow students in Jordan that really successful businesses come from Linux hackersMar 22 13:22
schestowitzFacebook it all LAMPMar 22 13:22
Omar87schestowitz, but I think I should first talk a little about the philosophy of it.Mar 22 13:22
schestowitzDon't sell based on how corrupt Microsoft isMar 22 13:22
schestowitzOmar87: depends on the audienceMar 22 13:22
schestowitzIf you speak to developers/general publicMar 22 13:23
Omar87schestowitz, I agree. I should advocate Freedom instead of just attack Microsoft.Mar 22 13:24
Omar87Yes.Mar 22 13:24
oiaohmI guess MS has not worked out the few problems with using patents against open source.Mar 22 13:24
Omar87Most of the audience will be general public.Mar 22 13:24
oiaohm1 open source the source code is a matter of public record.Mar 22 13:25
oiaohmSo prior art can be taken from the source code itself.Mar 22 13:25
oiaohmClosed source companies don't have that protection.Mar 22 13:25
Omar87oiaohm, currently they begging people to buy their crappy new OS. 22 13:25
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Free Windows 7 Ultimate Giveaway! | MicrosoftFeed .::. Size~: 36.1 KBMar 22 13:25
Omar87they *are* begging...Mar 22 13:26
oiaohmNext problem is not only prior art.  Open source can use the really rare parall development clause as well.Mar 22 13:27
oiaohmOn top of the I did not do it protection method.Mar 22 13:27
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] #Bluefish 2.0 seems pretty cool! 22 13:28
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Bluefish 2.0 | WebDevOnLinux .::. Size~: 38.45 KBMar 22 13:28
oiaohmThe big reason prior art does not work in closed source patent cases is how to you prove your developers knew about the prior art and were not coping from the patent holder.Mar 22 13:28
oiaohmReally I want to see a few open source patent cases open up.Mar 22 13:29
oiaohmBecause some of the losses Open Source can cause due to its open source nature would scare the crap out of some of these agressive companies.Mar 22 13:29
oiaohmHmm did MS ever give away copies of XP in competitions.Mar 22 13:30
oiaohmThe legal side is also good thing to talk about.Mar 22 13:31
schestowitz[13:26] <Omar87> they *are* begging...Mar 22 13:32
oiaohmLot of cases open source is one of the few defences against patent attacks small developers have.Mar 22 13:32
schestowitzLike a fisherman begs for the big fish to eat his baitMar 22 13:32
Omar87schestowitz, exactly.Mar 22 13:32
schestowitz"Come on, fishie... here's some food for ya! :-D"Mar 22 13:33
oiaohmMore like MS use to be a fisher man with a big net.Mar 22 13:33
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] I think you guys should rename your website to Microsoft_Spoon_Feed. @Microsoft_FeedMar 22 13:33
oiaohmMS has lost there net now is resorting to small hooks.Mar 22 13:33
schestowitz*LOL*Mar 22 13:33
oiaohmCompanies that are doing well in the market don't need to give away freebies.Mar 22 13:34
oiaohmIe you don't see adobe handing out free copies of photoshop.Mar 22 13:34
Omar87oiaohm, treating their customers as beggars.Mar 22 13:37
oiaohmOk don't need to give away freebies without getting something worth while in return.Mar 22 13:39
oiaohmIn the case of fedora redhat got a huge debuging team they would not be able to aford other wise.Mar 22 13:39
oiaohmBasically I see no major direct pay off for MS.Mar 22 13:39
oiaohm  The community fight back has begin.Mar 22 13:40
phIRCe-BNcTitle: [Phoronix] Nexuiz Gets Forked, Turned Into Xonotic .::. Size~: 16.62 KBMar 22 13:40
oiaohmMy rules of projects never change.Mar 22 13:42
Omar87oiaohm, actually that's because Red Hat will get sued if they don't release they work back to the community.Mar 22 13:42
oiaohmNo legally they did not have to release binarys to the community.  Omar87Mar 22 13:42
Omar87oiaohm, both Red Hat and Fedora are open. But Fedora is more for the community, and Red Hat is dedicated to the corporate side of the world.Mar 22 13:43
oiaohmFor many years they were fully legal and did not Omar87Mar 22 13:43
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oiaohmIe pre 2000 Redhat played a very closed game Omar87Mar 22 13:43
Omar87oiaohm, closed game?Mar 22 13:43
oiaohmBinaries only to people with valid versions.  Omar87Mar 22 13:44
Omar87oiaohm, I see.Mar 22 13:44
oiaohmSource for everyone else.Mar 22 13:44
Omar87oiaohm, yeah, that's what I'm talking about.Mar 22 13:44
oiaohmFedora was to help redhat with there development speed.Mar 22 13:45
Omar87oiaohm, they have to release the source, at least.Mar 22 13:45
oiaohmReleasing proto type binaries to the public for nothing protected their main product from a lot of issues.Mar 22 13:45
oiaohmRHEL is still subscription only binaries.Mar 22 13:45
Omar87oiaohm, I see.Mar 22 13:46
Omar87But the source is accessible to everyone.Mar 22 13:46
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oiaohmRHEL exact source you have to put in requests if you don't have subscription as legally allowed by GPL.Mar 22 13:47
oiaohmSo its not what you call a fully open game.  Omar87Mar 22 13:47
oiaohmRedhat plays perfectly by the rules.Mar 22 13:47
Omar87oiaohm, I can understand it because Red Hat is a for-profit corporation.Mar 22 13:48
oiaohmRedhat even goes above and beyond the rules by upstreaming as much as they can.Mar 22 13:48
Omar87upstreaming?Mar 22 13:48
oiaohmTo projects like gcc samba and so on of fixes.  Omar87Mar 22 13:49
oiaohmIe making sure the lead developers of those projects know what they are doing.Mar 22 13:49
Omar87oiaohm, in otherwords, they give back to the community.Mar 22 13:49
oiaohmUpstreaming is a little bit more involved its part giving back to the community.Mar 22 13:50
oiaohmPart helping to run the communitiesMar 22 13:50
Omar87oiaohm, I see.Mar 22 13:50
oiaohmGPL has no requirement that you return you changes to the project it came form.Mar 22 13:51
oiaohmBasically what redhat does goes past what they are legally required todo.Mar 22 13:51
oiaohmBut early on redhat did make mistakes of only doing what they legally had to.Mar 22 13:52
oiaohmThere is what you legally have todo.  And what saves you money long term.Mar 22 13:53
oiaohmstuding the first 6 years of redhat existance shows a lot of important leasons about dealing with open source effectively.Mar 22 13:53
oiaohmParticularly what not to try todo.Mar 22 13:54
oiaohmI should write a book.  How to destroy your own distribtion or open source project in 20 simple steps.Mar 22 13:54
cubezzzjust go LFSMar 22 13:58
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Hypocrisy is a very bad attitude. @Microsoft_FeedMar 22 13:58
cubezzzI find the biggest problem is hardware that isn't documentedMar 22 13:58
cubezzzthen no one can easily write a driverMar 22 13:58
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cubezzzI can't get too excited about what any distro is doingMar 22 13:58
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cubezzzthis is the year I break completely out of wintelMar 22 13:59
cubezzzmaybe even get one of those iyonix systems used somewhereMar 22 13:59
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] The truth about the #Republicans failing to get anythng useful done for the past 9 months 22 14:02
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Slashdot Comments | House Passes Massive Medical Insurance Bill, 219-212 .::. Size~: 44.01 KBMar 22 14:02
MinceRare those still produced?Mar 22 14:03
cubezzznoMar 22 14:03
cubezzzbut there's still this:Mar 22 14:03
cubezzz 22 14:03
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Advantage6: The A9home .::. Size~: 7.45 KBMar 22 14:03
cubezzzumm actuallyMar 22 14:06
cubezzznot positive if they are still for sale eitherMar 22 14:06
cubezzzI guess it's used zaurus or netwalker then Mar 22 14:12
cubezzzI _know_ those exist :)Mar 22 14:12
cubezzzshould be able to find a C1000 for about $300 for usedMar 22 14:12
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*Disconnected (Connection timed out).Mar 22 14:40
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Mar 22 14:40:08 2010
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 22 14:40:46 2010
*Now talking on #boycottnovellMar 22 14:40
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Mar 22 14:40
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Nov 29 20:53:52 2009Mar 22 14:40
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelMar 22 14:40
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Coca-cola liable to pay damages worth 216 crore in rupees : #badcoke #waterday #keralaMar 22 14:42
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The Hindu : States / Kerala : Coca-Cola liable to pay damages worth Rs. 216.26 crore .::. Size~: 35.34 KBMar 22 14:42
oiaohmThere is some that targets routers cubezzzMar 22 14:44
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Gates Foundation Roundup: (Mis)Education With Spin; #GAVI , #Pfizer , #Merck , and the African Ventures 22 14:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Gates Foundation Roundup: (Mis)Education With Spin; GAVI, Pfizer, Merck, and the African Ventures | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 133.49 KBMar 22 14:47
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-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] throws a fork bomb on his followers: ":(){ :|:& };:"Mar 22 14:57
schestowitz[14:26] <cubezzz> you just don't see arm devices around muchMar 22 14:59
schestowitzYes, I have a post about that comingMar 22 14:59
schestowitzBN has two posts mentioning the bitdefender thingMar 22 15:00
schestowitzThat Gates post was exhausive to doMar 22 15:00
schestowitz*exhaustingMar 22 15:00
schestowitzCanadians might find it interesting. In recent weeks we had thousands of people reading the index of articles about the Gates FoundationMar 22 15:01
schestowitzSo the word spreadsMar 22 15:01
schestowitzHmmmmmm... logger fell offMar 22 15:05
schestowitz[14:20] --> omar_ has joined this channel (~omar@ 22 15:06
schestowitz[14:22] <-- Omar87 has left this server (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).Mar 22 15:06
schestowitz[14:26] <cubezzz> you just don't see arm devices around muchMar 22 15:06
schestowitz[14:26] <cubezzz> not in stores, not in ebayMar 22 15:06
schestowitz[14:26] <cubezzz> I should say laptop like devicesMar 22 15:06
schestowitz[14:27] [Notice] -BNi to #boycottnovell- [sagarun/@sagarun] The rise and fall of MySQL: /via @glynmoodyMar 22 15:06
schestowitz[14:27] <phIRCe-BNc> Title: Free software's second era: The rise and fall of MySQL - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 39.81 KBMar 22 15:06
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schestowitz[14:32] <oiaohm>  << I think you better get this schestowitzMar 22 15:06
schestowitz[14:33] <phIRCe-BNc> Title: Google releases web security scanner - The H Security: News and Features .::. Size~: 35.52 KBMar 22 15:06
schestowitz[14:34] <-- schestowitz_log has left this server (*.net *.split).Mar 22 15:06
schestowitz[14:34] <-- Aondo has left this server (*.net *.split).Mar 22 15:06
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Free software's second era: The rise and fall of MySQL - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 39.81 KBMar 22 15:06
schestowitz[14:37] <oiaohm> Who said you anti-virus is friendly.Mar 22 15:06
schestowitz[14:37] <phIRCe-BNc> Title: BitDefender update cripples Windows computers - The H Security: News and Features .::. Size~: 34.62 KBMar 22 15:07
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Google releases web security scanner - The H Security: News and Features .::. Size~: 35.52 KBMar 22 15:07
schestowitz[14:39] <cubezzz> virus scanners....Mar 22 15:07
schestowitz[14:40] <cubezzz> just imagine how little arm linux malware there must beMar 22 15:07
phIRCe-BNcTitle: BitDefender update cripples Windows computers - The H Security: News and Features .::. Size~: 34.62 KBMar 22 15:07
*omar_ is now known as Omar87Mar 22 15:07
Omar87schestowitz, what's wrong?Mar 22 15:07
schestowitzSorry about that, had to paste that for logs not to have gapsMar 22 15:07
schestowitzThe loggers miss thoseMar 22 15:07
schestowitzOmar87: are you making a presentation?Mar 22 15:07
schestowitzSome stuff is reusableMar 22 15:08
schestowitzYou can take someone's shareable slides and modify them with attribution to the originalMar 22 15:08
Omar87schestowitz, yes. I'm planning on giving a series of lectures.Mar 22 15:08
schestowitzYour queen uses FOSSMar 22 15:10
schestowitzHer site...Mar 22 15:10
*Aondo_ is now known as AondoMar 22 15:10
schestowitzOr was it pricess?Mar 22 15:10
schestowitz*princessMar 22 15:10
Omar87schestowitz, yeah, I know that.Mar 22 15:10
schestowitzMaybe she can present with you.Mar 22 15:10
Omar87schestowitz, queenMar 22 15:10
Omar87schestowitz, no, I don't think she has the time. :)Mar 22 15:10
schestowitzJust IM her, tell her it's extremely urgentMar 22 15:12
Omar87schestowitz, plus, I'll be doing them in a small place in our university called "The CSDC" -> "Civil Society Development Center"Mar 22 15:12
schestowitz 22 15:12
phIRCe-BNcTitle: RoAkSoAxs Weblog  » Data loss after update? .::. Size~: 16.56 KBMar 22 15:12
schestowitzTurd?Mar 22 15:13
schestowitzOmar87: but remember:Mar 22 15:13
schestowitzWhat you tell people pass from mouth to earMar 22 15:13
schestowitzPeople forget peer-to-peer communicatonMar 22 15:13
schestowitzTelevision in a strong brainwashing device, too. It separates and captivatesMar 22 15:14
Omar87schestowitz, what do you meant?Mar 22 15:14
Omar87mean*Mar 22 15:14
schestowitzWhen the TV was invented it's what they had in mind, among other thingsMar 22 15:14
schestowitzOmar87: if you explain to somewhat that FOSS is better, than a listener could give a similar talk laterMar 22 15:14
schestowitzRMS knows that building ideas that spread is importantMar 22 15:14
schestowitzThere's not much one can achieve alone, but if you speak to people in Jordan then you germinate somethingMar 22 15:15
Omar87schestowitz, I see.Mar 22 15:15
schestowitzBe an educatorMar 22 15:15
Omar87Thanks for the advice.Mar 22 15:15
schestowitzANd be politeMar 22 15:15
schestowitzYou drive people off otherwiseMar 22 15:15
Omar87schestowitz, exactly. that's what I'm planning to do.Mar 22 15:16
schestowitz 22 15:16
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Ubuntu drifting away from open source? «  U8UNTU eLXER .::. Size~: 33.45 KBMar 22 15:16
schestowitzSome people can't be persuaded, Omar87Mar 22 15:16
schestowitzDon't aim for themMar 22 15:16
schestowitzAnd don't alienate the rest because of themMar 22 15:17
schestowitzFS is inevitableMar 22 15:17
schestowitzThey too will pass^tmMar 22 15:17
Omar87schestowitz, I know. Mar 22 15:17
Omar87schestowitz, what I'm aiming for are those people who don't know anything.Mar 22 15:17
Omar87schestowitz, I don't really care about those people who already know but are not interested.Mar 22 15:18
Omar87schestowitz, as wasting my time on them is the worst mistake can do.Mar 22 15:18
Omar87the worst mistake *I* can do.Mar 22 15:19
schestowitzYes. +1Mar 22 15:19
schestowitzIt's easier in south America anywayMar 22 15:20
schestowitzSouth Africa. They had foreign invadersMar 22 15:20
Omar87I see.Mar 22 15:20
schestowitzMaybe east Europe tooMar 22 15:20
schestowitzIn Jordan Microsoft has no profit policyMar 22 15:20
schestowitzLetting people be called "thieves"Mar 22 15:20
Omar87schestowitz, it will have sooner or later.Mar 22 15:21
schestowitzSo that Microsoft is seen as "victim" and "generous" at the same timeMar 22 15:21
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schestowitzjweyrich would knowMar 22 15:21
schestowitzSup', jweyrich?Mar 22 15:21
jweyrichhi schestowitz! not much. working. you?Mar 22 15:22
jweyrichwhat would I know?Mar 22 15:22
schestowitz 22 15:23
phIRCe-BNcTitle: KOffice 2.2 Beta 1 Released | .::. Size~: 11.65 KBMar 22 15:23
schestowitzjweyrich: I was talking to Omar87 about south AmericaMar 22 15:24
schestowitzAnd how it understands the need for libre softwareMar 22 15:24
schestowitzbtw new one: 22 15:24
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft under fire in Argentina: it faces a fine of more than 50 million euros for anticompetitive activities - My Opinions .::. Size~: 26.34 KBMar 22 15:24
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-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Enso zenPad runs Android, 5", $155, doesn't seem to suck too badly !LinuxMar 22 15:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Enso's zenPad is the cheap Android tablet you've always wanted, available now -- Engadget .::. Size~: 205.35 KBMar 22 15:27
ender2070 22 15:29
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Google Evil? and MS Isn't MORE Evil? | .::. Size~: 8.65 KBMar 22 15:29
ender2070this one is funnyMar 22 15:29
schestowitz 22 15:31
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Latest Commodore 64 incarnation hopes what's old is new again | Laptops and Desktops | .::. Size~: 96.21 KBMar 22 15:31
schestowitz"It comes with the latest version of Ubuntu Linux"Mar 22 15:31
schestowitzender2070: noMar 22 15:33
schestowitzThat's their old goalMar 22 15:33
schestowitzevery deskMar 22 15:33
schestowitzNot it's every server, mail account, etc.Mar 22 15:33
schestowitzThey also want to control informationMar 22 15:33
schestowitzDeciding what info to take forward and which to rejectMar 22 15:33
schestowitzSearch Bong[sic] for "ballmer chair" or "gates abuse"Mar 22 15:33
schestowitzThat sort of stuffMar 22 15:34
schestowitzBTW:Mar 22 15:34
schestowitzNo company is evilMar 22 15:34
ender2070thats what i was making fun ofMar 22 15:34
schestowitzThe word "evil" has terrible connotation, so I don't use itMar 22 15:34
jweyrichMost brazilian governmental systems are under linux right now. And it's taking place everywhere. However, we still find reluctant companies, but it's fairly adopted by universities and other educational establishments. Argentine is going thru the same way.Mar 22 15:34
schestowitzYou can say "criminal company"Mar 22 15:34
jweyrichArgentina*Mar 22 15:34
schestowitzCrime is verified objectively based on the law by legal professionalsMar 22 15:34
schestowitzjweyrich: that's goodMar 22 15:35
schestowitzThe world looks up to BrazilMar 22 15:35
ender2070if I say criminal company without a conviction I may be liableMar 22 15:35
schestowitzOmar87 too, he likes South America for leading the way for the rest of usMar 22 15:35
schestowitzender2070: Microsoft is convictedMar 22 15:35
schestowitzMultiple timesMar 22 15:36
schestowitzIntelMar 22 15:36
schestowitzToMar 22 15:36
schestowitz*tooMar 22 15:36
ender2070what is intel convicted ofMar 22 15:36
schestowitzMy family gets upset when I rip IntelMar 22 15:36
schestowitzCause I have relatives who work thereMar 22 15:36
Omar87schestowitz, yeah, South America is a region one can be proud of.Mar 22 15:36
ender2070what was intel convicted of?Mar 22 15:36
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schestowitzender2070: bribes, destruction of evidence (obstruction of evidence), collusion, etc.Mar 22 15:36
ender2070amd tried to sue them for antitrust but settled and took the money insteadMar 22 15:36
schestowitz * /evidence/justice/Mar 22 15:37
schestowitzYeahMar 22 15:37
schestowitzender2070: I call it "guilty by admi$$ion"Mar 22 15:37
schestowitzMoney admittedMar 22 15:37
schestowitzNot guilt admittedMar 22 15:37
ender2070yeah but i dont say amd is any betterMar 22 15:37
schestowitzPost your bail in the Admissions OfficeMar 22 15:38
schestowitzRemember Gates was bailed out after his arrestMar 22 15:38
ender2070amd should have stuck with it if they really cared about prices for consumersMar 22 15:38
schestowitzHis mug from there is public domainMar 22 15:38
Omar87schestowitz, and links for that?Mar 22 15:38
schestowitzAMD is owned by middle east hands nowMar 22 15:38
schestowitzPartly.Mar 22 15:38
schestowitzOmar87: search for gates' mugMar 22 15:38
ender2070amd is pathetic imoMar 22 15:38
schestowitz 22 15:39
phIRCe-BNcTitle: bill gates mug - Google Search .::. Size~: 58.02 KBMar 22 15:39
ender2070they couldn't even afford decent reps, we had this one guy who acted kind of like a stoner and didn't even know anything about his productMar 22 15:39
ender2070he was asking what ram he would need for his own processor/mobo comboMar 22 15:40
ender2070some other dumb questions tooMar 22 15:40
*Omar87 has quit (Quit: Leaving)Mar 22 15:40
ender2070LG sucks tooMar 22 15:40
ender2070they had a bad rep tooMar 22 15:40
ender2070i even dealt with a microsoft rep at the storeMar 22 15:41
ender2070i pwned himMar 22 15:41
ender2070i was trying the win7 rc at our store, and I complimented him on the fact that IE was removable enough that apps tied to it didnt work anymore :)Mar 22 15:42
ender2070he didnt like it, asking me what harm it caused by leaving it on my systemMar 22 15:42
ender2070i asked him if he would feel safe not locking his door at nightMar 22 15:43
jweyrichheheMar 22 15:46
schestowitz 22 15:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle:     Doomed to Obscurity   .::. Size~: 55.38 KBMar 22 15:46
schestowitzender2070: LG is boycottedMar 22 15:46
schestowitzIt signed a Linux deal with MicrosoftMar 22 15:46
jweyrichLG never made good products anyway, I guess the only thing I liked was their flatron monitors.Mar 22 15:47
jweyrichs/monitors/displays/Mar 22 15:47
jweyrichnot sure whether you use the word "monitor" for that purpose.Mar 22 15:48
ender2070they used to make some decent laptopsMar 22 15:49
ender2070they used to oem for ibm's thinkpadsMar 22 15:49
ender2070they had this one notebook series with two power buttons on itMar 22 15:50
ender2070one power button booted windows, the other booted a castrated linuxMar 22 15:50
ender2070had so many returns on it, people kept booting the wrong oneMar 22 15:51
ender2070(LG)Mar 22 15:51
ender2070i'd rather have a dual boot screen or something like thatMar 22 15:51
jweyrichhaha. never saw that one.Mar 22 15:52
schestowitz 22 15:52
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Bheekling's Rantings: Freenode Fails. .::. Size~: 76.41 KBMar 22 15:52
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jweyrichschestowitz: I guess I never noticed because I alway auto-identify. but indeed, looks ridiculous.Mar 22 15:57
schestowitzThat's a nasty article:Mar 22 15:57
schestowitz 22 15:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle: RIP Palm: it's over, and here's why .::. Size~: 35.18 KBMar 22 15:57
*DaemonFC ( has joined #boycottnovellMar 22 15:57
schestowitzFUD image: checkMar 22 15:57
schestowitzFUD headline:  checkMar 22 15:57
schestowitzArsTechnica=ArsTechnica--;Mar 22 15:57
jweyrichneed to replace my macbook fan urgently. it's doing more noise than a tractor.Mar 22 15:58
schestowitz 22 15:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Latin America leads in school laptops -         Andres Oppenheimer - .::. Size~: 84.58 KBMar 22 15:59
jweyrichI don't know a single school covered by this program, but I might be looking at the wrong ones.Mar 22 16:00
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phIRCe-BNcTitle: [Phoronix] Phoronix To Tour Chernobyl Nuclear Site .::. Size~: 16.59 KBMar 22 16:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Morning folks! How are you all doing today? Ready for a busy week? :-)Mar 22 16:24
schestowitzWot??Mar 22 16:24
schestowitzjono: morning.Mar 22 16:24
DaemonFCHealth insurance stocks are upMar 22 16:25
DaemonFC 22 16:26
phIRCe-BNcTitle: AT A GLANCE: Health-Care Stocks Up After House OK's Overhaul .::. Size~: 52.08 KBMar 22 16:26
jonohey schestowitzMar 22 16:26
DaemonFChey jono, we just sent $1 trillion to the health care cartelMar 22 16:26
schestowitzDaemonFC: did something pass?Mar 22 16:26
schestowitzI missed the newsMar 22 16:26
DaemonFCthey can now waste it on bonuses and doing cocaineMar 22 16:26
jonoDaemonFC, I saw it passedMar 22 16:26
jonohere we go...Mar 22 16:27
schestowitzBad for jono, I guess. He lives thereMar 22 16:27
jonoanother 20 lines of DaemonFC verbal diarrhea....Mar 22 16:27
jono:)Mar 22 16:27
schestowitzGovernment by the -people- cartel for the -people- cartelMar 22 16:27
DaemonFCjono either gets to buy health insurance here or pay a 2.5% fine on his incomeMar 22 16:27
schestowitzAs it should beMar 22 16:27
schestowitzjono: hehe.Mar 22 16:28
WireWulfDaemonFC: what if you are unemployed ??Mar 22 16:28
DaemonFCYou can't fix evil with a small patch Mar 22 16:28
DaemonFCWireWulf: What about it? COBRAMar 22 16:28
schestowitz"But jono... jono jono.... hey jono, look jonojon" -- DaemonFOXMar 22 16:28
jonololMar 22 16:28
schestowitzIs cobra served in Asian restaurants?Mar 22 16:29
DaemonFCit's probably going to be struck down anyway, by the courtsMar 22 16:29
schestowitzCORBA?Mar 22 16:29
DaemonFCschestowitz: COBRA lets you keep your insurance for 6 months after you lose your jobMar 22 16:29
DaemonFCit's a federal law alreadyMar 22 16:30
schestowitz 22 16:30
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Common Object Request Broker Architecture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 78.27 KBMar 22 16:30
schestowitzDaemonFC: ahh..Mar 22 16:30
WireWulfDaemonFC: i havent had a job in a yearMar 22 16:30
DaemonFC 22 16:30
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 59.42 KBMar 22 16:30
schestowitzDoes anyone still PDAs?Mar 22 16:31
schestowitzThere's Sharp with Ubuntu, but just in .jpMar 22 16:31
schestowitzI can't find a gadget without those infernal trasmittorsMar 22 16:31
DaemonFCschestowitz: Shutting down the cartel and setting up a single payer system was the only good optionMar 22 16:32
DaemonFCthe cartel made sure it didn't have the votesMar 22 16:32
DaemonFC:PMar 22 16:32
schestowitz 22 16:33
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- how to see blind spot .::. Size~: 103.41 KBMar 22 16:33
schestowitzDoes any here know how to see the blind spot?Mar 22 16:33
schestowitzThere's some trick to it..Mar 22 16:33
schestowitzCan't find it..Mar 22 16:33
DaemonFCThere's no way you can adequately describe the system of private insurance companies we have without calling them a cartel Mar 22 16:33
DaemonFCas a cartel, they all violate the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890Mar 22 16:34
schestowitzAh.. 22 16:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Blind spot (vision) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 25.76 KBMar 22 16:34
DaemonFCand possibly the RICO ActMar 22 16:34
schestowitzIt's not enforcedMar 22 16:34
DaemonFCschestowitz: They should be shut down as criminal organizations under at least two US federal lawsMar 22 16:35
DaemonFCmaybe moreMar 22 16:35
neighborleeDaemonFC: dont forget president obama said he never campaigned for it, though he certainly did..many were for a single payer including senator weiner, but we didn't get it of course because at the time we did not have the votes ..its not a easy process but sure, even some democrats were in the insurance companies 'pockets'Mar 22 16:35
DaemonFCschestowitz: I'm not against reform, but what we just did was put a very expensive patch on it that feeds the cartel that's already in placeMar 22 16:36
WireWulfweeMar 22 16:36
DaemonFCit may work out to where it costs less to insure each person, but we're still paying more than we shouldMar 22 16:36
neighborleebut its a start at least those who have none can get it,,rome was not built in a day, and we know for sURE the republicans weren't going to build it.Mar 22 16:36
WireWulfhehMar 22 16:37
schestowitzI can't make it work.Mar 22 16:37
schestowitz"Instructions: You may need to reduce the size of your browser window if your screen is large or at a high resolution. Your face should be very close to the screen. Cover right eye and focus the left eye on the X. Now slowly move away from the screen. The O will disappear, while the A which is further to the left is still visible. As you move further away, the O will reappear. (Observe that you do not see a hole. Instead of the O you Mar 22 16:37
schestowitzsee a uniform grey background. The "hole" is filled in by your brain. Make sure there is not a glare on the screen as it will obscure the whole vision.)"Mar 22 16:37
DaemonFCneighborlee: Well, it might be that a half-fix is better than leaving the whole problem in placeMar 22 16:37
neighborleeno votes for health care reform, even though we know for sure its going to save there's a visual for youMar 22 16:37
DaemonFCI'll admit that muchMar 22 16:37
neighborlee:)Mar 22 16:37
WireWulfhas anyone read the bill completly?Mar 22 16:37
neighborleeyesMar 22 16:37
neighborleemany senatorsMar 22 16:37
DaemonFC1400 pagesMar 22 16:37
DaemonFCI doubt anyone couldMar 22 16:37
neighborleeexcept john bayner LOLMar 22 16:37
schestowitzCan't figest itMar 22 16:37
neighborleedigestMar 22 16:37
DaemonFCit's longer than 500 US ConstitutionsMar 22 16:38
neighborleeDaemonFC: some people read fast, and retain :)Mar 22 16:38
DaemonFCit's half again as long as War and PeaceMar 22 16:38
schestowitzAnyone, I won't live in the US any time soon, so I'm glad to say I don't need to be angryMar 22 16:38
schestowitz*anywayMar 22 16:38
WireWulfthen you know it also makes the only way to get money for college via the govermentMar 22 16:38
DaemonFCwell, they rushed it through and there might be some really nasty stuff in there unrelated to healthcare that we find out about when it's already lawMar 22 16:39
neighborleethats what the amendments are forMar 22 16:39
neighborleethat is going to senateMar 22 16:39
WireWulfmeaning all schools are now 100% control by the fedMar 22 16:39
neighborleeWireWulf: its not like some schools are a haven of perfection you know..many are failing the students miserablyMar 22 16:39
WireWulfneighborlee: most of those are goverment ranMar 22 16:40
jweyrichdamn it, the apple store keeps telling me I need to bring my macbook to them to switch the cooler. WTF?Mar 22 16:40
WireWulfexample the local highschool hereMar 22 16:40
jweyrichthey want 150 (fan) + 100 (man work).Mar 22 16:41
DaemonFCneighborlee: Read Section 256, Hawaii's senators worked that inMar 22 16:42
DaemonFCit makes sure to leave their system aloneMar 22 16:42
WireWulfjweyrich: i'd do it for 160 Mar 22 16:42
WireWulfif you was localMar 22 16:42
jweyrichI'd do it myself. but they don't allow me.Mar 22 16:42
WireWulfjweyrich: they would me xD ;however, more reason for me to never use a macMar 22 16:43
jweyrichjust knew apple doesn't sell parts alone. beautiful! apple--;Mar 22 16:45
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] ♺ @amcguire62: Just purchased "the art of the community" by Jono Bacon as reviewed in UKUUGMar 22 16:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The Art of Community            - O'Reilly Media         .::. Size~: 45.3 KBMar 22 16:46
WireWulfjweyrich: i can find a apple computer to rob i mean take parts from cheapMar 22 16:47
WireWulfnot like they change too muchMar 22 16:47
jweyrichlol.Mar 22 16:47
WireWulfmodel to model it really is nothing big they changeMar 22 16:48
jweyrichwell, mine is a macbook2,1 (A1181, 13 inch)Mar 22 16:49
jweyrichlate 2006.Mar 22 16:49
WireWulfmmhmmMar 22 16:49
neighborleeDaemonFC: what are you referring to ?Mar 22 16:51
neighborleebblMar 22 16:54
DaemonFCneighborlee: The bill exempts Hawaii's existing single payer systemMar 22 16:56
DaemonFCHawaii wants no part of thisMar 22 16:56
DaemonFCso after excusing themselves, they voted for the act which affects the other 49 states, but not themMar 22 16:56
DaemonFCThe act was also not really popular in Massachusetts, where they have the same thing on a smaller scale. 97% covered but their premiums are higher than anywhere else in the countryMar 22 16:58
DaemonFCa lot of them want their state system repealed, not a federal one to replace itMar 22 16:59
DaemonFCso Hawaii doesn't want it cause theirs is better, and Massachusetts wants to get rid of essentially the same framework in their own state already (not a federal one to replace it), and that's why Scott Brown was sent to the SenateMar 22 17:00
DaemonFClots of horse trading and trickery to get this bill passedMar 22 17:00
DaemonFCrightly, the Senators from Hawaii should have abstained or voted PresentMar 22 17:01
DaemonFCThey're obviously not voting for it within the capacity of representing their stateMar 22 17:01
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] David Cameron's wife Samantha pregnant - Just in time for an election too; how convenient 22 17:02
phIRCe-BNcTitle: BBC News - David Cameron's wife Samantha pregnant .::. Size~: 50.26 KBMar 22 17:02
WireWulfweeMar 22 17:02
WireWulfno matter what we are just in the shitterMar 22 17:02
WireWulfbecuz you can go around the courtMar 22 17:03
DaemonFCit's somewhat doubtful the court will strike it down, and even if they do, it won't be the entire billMar 22 17:03
DaemonFCjust the mandatory purchase partMar 22 17:03
WireWulfthats doubtful alsoMar 22 17:04
DaemonFCthe issue at hand is not whether the entire bill violates the commerce clause, but whether mandatory purchase doesMar 22 17:05
DaemonFCthe entire bill will not be stricken even if that part isMar 22 17:05
DaemonFCthe courts rarely strike an entire bill on constitutional groundsMar 22 17:05
WireWulfthey shouldMar 22 17:06
WireWulfbut i dont think they will do muchMar 22 17:06
WireWulftho there are ways around the courtMar 22 17:06
DaemonFCTheir authority ends where the violation of the constitution and the grounds of the complaint doMar 22 17:06
DaemonFCthe Republicans are exaggerating when they act like they'll get the whole thing stricken Mar 22 17:07
WireWulfheh i hate both partiesMar 22 17:07
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Pushed some code today : 22 17:07
phIRCe-BNcTitle: DotNetTwitter - Gitorious .::. Size~: 12.33 KBMar 22 17:07
DaemonFCso if the Republicans file a lawsuit complaining about mandatory purchase, that's the only thing the court can strikeMar 22 17:07
DaemonFCeven if other violations occur in the lawMar 22 17:08
*satipera (~satiperaq@ has joined #boycottnovellMar 22 17:08
WireWulfi am for an indepentent republicMar 22 17:08
WireWulffuck partiesMar 22 17:08
schestowitzIt woulddevalue itMar 22 17:12
schestowitzAnd no sanitationMar 22 17:12
schestowitzDoesn't work well in practiceMar 22 17:12
schestowitzDaemonFC: are you getting screwed over by the cartel"?Mar 22 17:13
schestowitzThe cartel is too busy making lousy drugs nobody needsMar 22 17:13
schestowitzLike wrinkle creams and v1agraMar 22 17:13
schestowitzNot life-saving drugs for AfricaMar 22 17:13
schestowitzThat would NOT be profitableMar 22 17:14
schestowitzThey just pocket the margins and spend on advertising probably more than they spend on researchMar 22 17:14
schestowitz 22 17:17
DaemonFCschestowitz: They focus on rich white people diseasesMar 22 17:18
DaemonFClike going bald or getting wrinklesMar 22 17:18
DaemonFC:)Mar 22 17:18
DaemonFCerectile dysfunctionMar 22 17:18
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] I sympathise with my US-based friends, who are getting raped by the 'Insurance' Cartel after the bill passedMar 22 17:19
DaemonFCso a 90 year old man can take a pill for thatMar 22 17:19
schestowitz"Thanks to the availability of Unity3d, Airplay and maybe even Unreal Engine 3, game development tools and engines are becoming a much more important part of the mobile space."Mar 22 17:19
schestowitz 22 17:19
schestowitzMono?Mar 22 17:19
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Stonetrip adds Android support to ShiVa game engine, news, ShiVa3D, .::. Size~: 35.19 KBMar 22 17:19
DaemonFCschestowitz: Scripting engine is .NetMar 22 17:20
DaemonFCsame for Second LifeMar 22 17:20
schestowitz,1212766.shtml\Mar 22 17:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: NComputing Drives Desktop Virtualization Into the Mainstream With Launch of $20 Numo System-On-Chip Bringing Windows and Linux Applications to Any Device  .::. Size~: 62.04 KBMar 22 17:21
schestowitzSo they /still/ do Linux after allMar 22 17:21
schestowitzDaemonFC: poor people don't live longMar 22 17:22
schestowitzEven it they did, they wouldn't buy those 'luxury' drugsMar 22 17:22
schestowitzThat's the top-tier marketMar 22 17:22
schestowitzPeople with more money than needMar 22 17:22
schestowitzLike Apps clienteleMar 22 17:22
schestowitzPharma cartel is like AppleMar 22 17:22
DaemonFCThis woman is on the phone encouraging a run on the banks to evade a 2.5% tax with refusal of health insuranceMar 22 17:32
DaemonFC:PMar 22 17:32
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[d235j] Just got Rucksack for Mac OS X completely free. Nothing paid! Really awesome! But hurry, only until March 23rd at http://www.macbuzzer.comMar 22 17:39
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Macbuzzer - mac software bundles gone insane... .::. Size~: 10.88 KBMar 22 17:39
satiperaUK lobbyist blames journalists for politicians behaviour Mar 22 17:45
MinceRi wonder why are we watching a twitter account that's advertising paid proprietary software for osxMar 22 17:46
DaemonFCschestowitz: You want to know what's really wicked? Medicare co-pays are $7 on generics, but the cost of most generics if $4, so Part D does nothing for you if you're on all genericsMar 22 17:50
DaemonFCthe only way to save any money is getting 90 days worth for $9 so Medicare pays $2Mar 22 17:50
DaemonFCthe system punishes you for trying to stick with older cheaper drugsMar 22 17:53
DaemonFCit pays 0-18% on those and 60-85% on most brand namesMar 22 17:54
DaemonFC:)Mar 22 17:54
DaemonFCin some cases you may as well just pay the $15-$20 and get the new stuffMar 22 17:55
DaemonFCif the goal of the system was to save money, generics would be freeMar 22 17:55
satiperaIt is the same with the NHS. Prescription charges have been greatly increased under this Labour regime. The government makes a profit of 100's of million pounds on prescription charges.Mar 22 17:56
DaemonFCsatipera: Medicare is by law, FORBIDDEN to negotiate with the pharma cartel for better pricesMar 22 17:56
DaemonFCthe Veteran's Administration CAN negotiateMar 22 17:57
DaemonFCthe result is that it costs twice as much per patient on Medicare than on the VA systemMar 22 17:57
DaemonFCif the VA buys a bottle of Crestor, it pays $50Mar 22 17:57
DaemonFCif Medicare buys it, it's $150Mar 22 17:58
DaemonFCand you pay $57Mar 22 17:58
satiperayes thyat is ridiculous, I believe you will end up with the equivelant of our NICE organisationMar 22 17:58
DaemonFCNICE?Mar 22 17:58
DaemonFCI take it, NICE, is not NICE?Mar 22 17:58
DaemonFC:)Mar 22 17:58
*neighborlee has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)Mar 22 17:58
satiperanational institute for clinical excellenceMar 22 17:58
satiperaThey actually do a good jobMar 22 17:59
DaemonFCsatipera: The only good part about going through the insurance cartel, is that those insurance auditors can negotiate for better deals, and willMar 22 17:59
satiperaThey decide if a new drug is cost effectiveMar 22 17:59
DaemonFCin fact, the hospitals don't send them fraudulent bills like they will to the uninsuredMar 22 18:00
DaemonFChospitals like to charge $500 for boxes of facial tissues if you're uninsuredMar 22 18:00
DaemonFCthey cann it "mucous reclamation system"Mar 22 18:00
DaemonFCthings like tatMar 22 18:00
DaemonFC*thatMar 22 18:00
satiperaAs a lot of people have said in the US health debate, they would not start from where they areMar 22 18:01
DaemonFCprivate insurers have people whose only job is to look for deceptive billing practicesMar 22 18:01
DaemonFCand refuse to pay those itemsMar 22 18:01
DaemonFCup until this year, Medicare would just pay whatever bill the hospital sentMar 22 18:01
satiperaAs an outsider I am amazed by the USA system of health careMar 22 18:02
DaemonFCObama just instituted an anti-deceptive billing group in MedicareMar 22 18:02
DaemonFCthey keep a few percent of whatever fraud or waste they uncoverMar 22 18:02
DaemonFCso if the hospital tries to pass a $500 box of facial tissues, and the auditor catches that, he may get another $20 on his paycheck that weekMar 22 18:03
DaemonFCit adds up, that's the ideaMar 22 18:03
satiperaIt was interesting what Pelosi said about the new system aiding entrepeneurs. Yes anti fraud idea is a good oneMar 22 18:03
DaemonFClobbyists have castrated Medicare's ability to protect itself from fraudMar 22 18:04
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] RT @nperry U1M Store Closer - #u :)Mar 22 18:04
DaemonFClargely through the RepublicansMar 22 18:04
phIRCe-BNcTitle: U1M Store Closer « Neil Perry .::. Size~: 11.05 KBMar 22 18:04
*WireWulf is now known as anti-matterMar 22 18:04
satiperaThe USA healthcare system must reduce labour mobilityMar 22 18:05
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] My Professional Focus and Goals in a Nutshell Some quick thoughts...Mar 22 18:05
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Stupid stupid trafficMar 22 18:05
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  » Blog Archive   » My Professional Focus and Goals in a Nutshell .::. Size~: 35.11 KBMar 22 18:05
*anti-matter is now known as WireWulfMar 22 18:05
DaemonFCI think we'd get the cost down at least 30% if we clamped down on fraud and gave Medicare the ability to negotiate pricingMar 22 18:05
DaemonFCat least 30%Mar 22 18:05
DaemonFCMedicare doesn't have the huge CEO bonus deals and shit, but it's less efficient than a private insurance companyMar 22 18:06
DaemonFCcause it can't negotiate and hasn't had an anti-abuse systemMar 22 18:06
satiperaWidening the health care debate out a little, the political system is so corrupt state funding of political parties has to be a good ideaMar 22 18:06
DaemonFCit's had to just pay whatever anyone wanted for so many years that it's now only about 70% efficientMar 22 18:07
DaemonFCwhere private insurance is 85%Mar 22 18:07
DaemonFCthe problem is Medicare could be 98% efficient if they would stop paying without questioningMar 22 18:08
satiperaBut private insurance for health is widely seen as a very inefficient way of organising things. Mar 22 18:08
satiperaI can't accept your efficiency statsMar 22 18:08
DaemonFCwell, you have companies that spring up just to submit fake Medicare claims, inventing ghost patientsMar 22 18:09
DaemonFCand the people running the scam buy sports cars and shit with the moneyMar 22 18:09
satiperaThere seems to be very little social responsibilityMar 22 18:10
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Traffic made tolerable by Jarre on radioMar 22 18:10
satiperaThe USA health and prison "industries" have a lot in commonMar 22 18:11
DaemonFCinstitutionalized Mar 22 18:11
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Life of a freelance developer: @binnyva /via @mageshcseMar 22 18:12
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Life Of A Freelance Web Developer .::. Size~: 40.7 KBMar 22 18:12
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satiperaThey are more about the people delivering the service than the service itselfMar 22 18:14
DaemonFCdamned en-GBMar 22 18:14
DaemonFCkeep your god damned en-GB off of articles about the United States!!!Mar 22 18:15
DaemonFCGAH!!!Mar 22 18:15
DaemonFCI can't even remember how many articles I've had t ofixMar 22 18:15
DaemonFCthat's always fun to walk intoMar 22 18:18
DaemonFCload an article about something US-related and it's polluted with en-GB spellings and British-ismsMar 22 18:18
DaemonFCit's a Wiki-invasionMar 22 18:18
satiperaha ha why get so irate?Mar 22 18:19
DaemonFCcause it pisses me offMar 22 18:19
DaemonFCI've even encountered articles about Indiana with British-ismsMar 22 18:20
DaemonFChow do those get in there?Mar 22 18:20
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DaemonFCWe were never a British colony, so I can't even see the historical reasoning for any of thatMar 22 18:20
satiperaI am surprised Americans noticeMar 22 18:20
DaemonFChow couldn't you notice?Mar 22 18:21
schestowitzHmmmm..... never seen this before: 22 18:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Softpedia News Editorial Team - Softpedia .::. Size~: 45.67 KBMar 22 18:22
DaemonFCcentre, defence, colour Mar 22 18:22
DaemonFCkind of stands outMar 22 18:22
DaemonFCso I just load the whole article in the editor and let my spell checker help me go over it, underscores all en-GB spellings in redMar 22 18:23
DaemonFCmakes reading through for them much easierMar 22 18:23
satiperaA lot of people on the mainland call it European EnglishMar 22 18:23
DaemonFCwell why not? I've seen people complain about articles on the UK with American spellingsMar 22 18:24
DaemonFCWhy shouldn't I be just as annoyed?Mar 22 18:24
MinceRwhy should any of you be annoyed?Mar 22 18:24
schestowitzJabba has fleasMar 22 18:25
satiperaQuite, I can't work up any steam over that one.Mar 22 18:25
cubezzzKDE has kolourpaint :)Mar 22 18:26
schestowitzMinceR: got ryan ticked off if you know what I meanMar 22 18:27
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Two calls down, three to go. :-)Mar 22 18:27
schestowitzKDE has KritaMar 22 18:27
DaemonFCMinceR: Because if you took a vote of all English speakers from native English-speaking countries, the US spelling would have not only a simple majorityMar 22 18:27
DaemonFCbut maybe even a 2/3rds majorityMar 22 18:27
DaemonFCB-)Mar 22 18:27
MinceRi personally prefer us english (mainly because of its simplicity) but i think that brits should have the right to use their versionMar 22 18:28
satiperaIndian English uses colourMar 22 18:28
DaemonFCThe UK and Canada for example only have about 96 million, combinedMar 22 18:28
DaemonFCand not even all of Canada speaks EnglishMar 22 18:28
schestowitzMinceR: en-GB sounds betterMar 22 18:28
schestowitzIt's also the originalMar 22 18:28
cubezzzAustralia? New Zealand? Mar 22 18:28
DaemonFCso that's really an overestimateMar 22 18:28
MinceRschestowitz: not to meMar 22 18:28
schestowitzDepends whoseMar 22 18:28
MinceRschestowitz: as for originality: languages evolve.Mar 22 18:28
schestowitzEngland has more accents than in the US, I reckonMar 22 18:29
DaemonFCschestowitz: Linux 0.01 was the originalMar 22 18:29
DaemonFCgo use thatMar 22 18:29
MinceRthen again, british accents do provide some variety :)Mar 22 18:29
DaemonFCno?Mar 22 18:29
schestowitzOxford-ish: 22 18:29
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  » Blog Archive   » New Favourite Channel .::. Size~: 30.68 KBMar 22 18:29
schestowitzMinceR: open source evolves tooMar 22 18:29
schestowitzMicrosoft entryismMar 22 18:30
schestowitzIt doesn't make it OK to warp quotesMar 22 18:30
DaemonFCactually, some American spellings were how they appeared in the 1700's in the UKMar 22 18:30
cubezzzafter the UK, Canada, US, Australia and New Zeland what other countries are mostly English speaking/writing?Mar 22 18:30
satiperaOne thing I can never understand about USA English is that phrase I could care lessMar 22 18:30
schestowitzLike when editors change "ise" to "ize" and "colour" to "color"Mar 22 18:30
DaemonFCthe British version changedMar 22 18:30
schestowitzMy editor in some magazine I wrote for did thisMar 22 18:30
MinceRschestowitz: what does that have to do with dialects of the english language?Mar 22 18:30
schestowitzNo real English allowed :-)Mar 22 18:30
DaemonFCit's not real EnglishMar 22 18:31
MinceRcubezzz: iirc ireland is tooMar 22 18:31
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schestowitzsatipera: "I could care less"?Mar 22 18:31
DaemonFCyou changed as much or more than we didMar 22 18:31
schestowitzCommon mistaleMar 22 18:31
satiperayesMar 22 18:31
schestowitzAmazingAtheists did a video about this phraseMar 22 18:31
DaemonFCUS English is more "correct" in many cases in that viewpointMar 22 18:31
satiperaWhere as we say I could not care lessMar 22 18:31
schestowitzThere are also "supposedly" and "supposably"Mar 22 18:32
cubezzz"I could care less" makes no senseMar 22 18:32
DaemonFCI believe it's "I couldn't care less"Mar 22 18:32
DaemonFCor just "Go fuck yourselves!"Mar 22 18:33
DaemonFCI prefer that oneMar 22 18:33
satiperaApparently we pronounce canine the same as the USA because an English dictionary compiler had an American dentistMar 22 18:33
cubezzzwho decides this stuff? :)Mar 22 18:33
cubezzzall I know is that things went downhill after win95 came outMar 22 18:33
satiperait was a short a before thisMar 22 18:34
DaemonFCcubezzz: I'm sure there's a "translatioun" available for you (OK, I know that one was bogus"Mar 22 18:34
DaemonFC*)Mar 22 18:34
DaemonFCbut yes, seriouslyMar 22 18:34
cubezzzwas there ever a golden era? Mar 22 18:34
DaemonFCwe should all be the same happy shade of gray and speak a combination of all languagesMar 22 18:34
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Let's kick off the week with a little of Krisiun's 'AssassiNation' :-)Mar 22 18:35
satiperathe golden era is always 60 or 70 years agoMar 22 18:35
cubezzz1940 was golden? hmmm, maybe the golden era of filmMar 22 18:36
cubezzzthe golden era of computers was....Mar 22 18:37
cubezzzthe 80's :)Mar 22 18:37
satiperajust watched the amazing atheist returnsMar 22 18:38
cubezzz"the golden era of operating systems"Mar 22 18:38
cubezzzI lived through the 70's, and I can say that was the golden era of fast food :)Mar 22 18:39
DaemonFCWell I look at it this way. The far right is telling people not to return the census. The census determines how Congressional seats are apportioned. Most far right wingers live out in the states we don't WANT being represented in Congress. Why the FUCK are we fighting the "don't fill out the Census" idiots?Mar 22 18:39
cubezzzpeople do get nostalgic about things thoughMar 22 18:39
DaemonFCdoes anyone else see a problem with this?Mar 22 18:40
cubezzzthe far right, what does that mean?Mar 22 18:40
satiperaThe golden era of fast food is when it didn't deposit itself as a spare tyreMar 22 18:40
DaemonFCGlenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean HannityMar 22 18:40
cubezzzRush is irrationalMar 22 18:40
cubezzzdo people really listen to him?Mar 22 18:41
cubezzzI doubt itMar 22 18:42
cubezzzin 1967 Canada didn't have McDonalds or Burger KingMar 22 18:42
cubezzzor Subway :)Mar 22 18:43
satiperaLike IcelandMar 22 18:43
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cubezzzyeah, I stopped eating thatMar 22 18:46
cubezzznot even Subway nowMar 22 18:46
satiperaTalking about multinationals, I was on a train a few years back going from cardif to Bristol, there were a group of American students on the train saying how many of the shops here are the same as the USA, a bit sad reallyMar 22 18:46
cubezzzI think the UK stores are a bit better generally speakingMar 22 18:47
satiperaLocal variety has to be betterMar 22 18:47
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cubezzzI don't like the Walmart style big box storesMar 22 18:49
satiperaI don't like walmarts anti union practices, I won't shop at Asda because of itMar 22 18:50
cubezzzand I don't like _any_ of the computer stores nowMar 22 18:50
cubezzzused to like Radio ShackMar 22 18:50
DaemonFCno business wants a unionMar 22 18:51
DaemonFCany business will act to keep one outMar 22 18:51
satiperaWhy not?Mar 22 18:51
DaemonFCnumber of reasonsMar 22 18:51
satiperacooperatives seem to do all rightMar 22 18:52
satiperaJohn Lewis is boomingMar 22 18:52
DaemonFCA union can't promise the employees anything, they can ONLY bargain. You may end up with more, the same, or even less. The first thing a union does is make sure the union gets paid, out of your paycheck.Mar 22 18:52
DaemonFCUnions tend to make concessions on worker pay and benefits to get the employer to agree to deduct your union dues before you see your check.Mar 22 18:53
satiperaI like the french model, you can't lay off or sack the union representativeMar 22 18:53
cubezzzthings were not better before UnionsMar 22 18:53
cubezzzlearn from historyMar 22 18:53
DaemonFCUnion membership is declining due to employee dissatisfaction Mar 22 18:54
DaemonFCThe only thing most unskilled laborers get from a union is less money Mar 22 18:54
satiperaHow many times have I heard someone say Unions used to be a good idea but we do not need them nowMar 22 18:54
cubezzzyes, we should abolish Unions and bring back child labourMar 22 18:54
DaemonFCUnions are greedy and there's really no protection for a job that anyone else can doMar 22 18:55
cubezzzthat's a good ideaMar 22 18:55
satiperaThat is a good thing the USA gave to the world the IWWMar 22 18:55
DaemonFCPaying $60 a month for bad representation on Walmart wages is a poor ideaMar 22 18:55
cubezzzWalmart is badMar 22 18:55
cubezzzI'd never shop thereMar 22 18:55
DaemonFCThey take advantage of people who aren't qualified to do anything betterMar 22 18:55
DaemonFCGo work at Pizza Hut Mar 22 18:56
DaemonFCor Dollar General?Mar 22 18:56
DaemonFCMcDonalds? You think they pay more?Mar 22 18:56
cubezzzare McDonalds employees unionized?Mar 22 18:57
DaemonFCWhere do you think the money from raises would come from?Mar 22 18:57
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Tim Voet contributes our very first #feedparser snippet! We need more though - see for how to contribute :-)Mar 22 18:57
satiperaunlikelyMar 22 18:57
DaemonFChigher pricesMar 22 18:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle: PythonSnippets - Ubuntu Wiki .::. Size~: 20.99 KBMar 22 18:57
DaemonFCless customersMar 22 18:57
DaemonFCdead businessMar 22 18:57
DaemonFCno jobMar 22 18:57
DaemonFCUnions don't run businesses out of business because they prey on the worker's wagesMar 22 18:58
DaemonFCthey don't cost the business much of anythingMar 22 18:58
DaemonFCmost unions like the SEIU, are actually going to take more from you in deductions than they'll get you in pay increasesMar 22 18:59
DaemonFCI worked within a union once, the Sheet Metal Workers UnionMar 22 19:00
DaemonFCthey didn't do anything for us, except take our moneyMar 22 19:00
DaemonFCthe pay was badMar 22 19:00
DaemonFCthe hours were longMar 22 19:00
DaemonFCthe health insurance was OKMar 22 19:00
DaemonFCand I got the fuck out of there within several monthsMar 22 19:00
satiperaTrade unionism is not just about a wages gained and union dues balanceMar 22 19:00
DaemonFCI wouldn't want to make a career out of working for dead end wages and having the union siphon off money from meMar 22 19:01
DaemonFCit's like "Oh gee, Walmart is a shitty job, wanna make it worse!?"Mar 22 19:01
DaemonFC:)Mar 22 19:01
satiperaI think that is a short sited view you have there.Mar 22 19:02
DaemonFCWhat's worse? Working for $8 an hour. Working for $8 an hour and having $10 taken out of your check each week.Mar 22 19:02
DaemonFCPick oneMar 22 19:02
DaemonFCI know which one I'd rather live withMar 22 19:02
DaemonFCService Union workers are still on welfare.Mar 22 19:03
cubezzzI'm self employedMar 22 19:03
DaemonFCSEIU Meijer employees are on welfare in higher numbers than non-union Walmart employees.Mar 22 19:03
cubezzzso no Union :)Mar 22 19:03
DaemonFCso much for unionsMar 22 19:03
satiperaIn the  representationUK the unions are probably more use as an organised pressure group than work placeMar 22 19:04
cubezzzjust contractsMar 22 19:04
DaemonFCcubezzz: Admit it, you're busting your balls.Mar 22 19:04
DaemonFCYou want you to pay you more money!Mar 22 19:04
cubezzzlolMar 22 19:04
DaemonFCYou're mad as hell, and you're not gonna take your shit no more!Mar 22 19:04
DaemonFCB-)Mar 22 19:04
cubezzzI can't complain Mar 22 19:04
DaemonFCUnions don't provide job security, in fact, they have been doing quite the opposite latelyMar 22 19:05
satiperathan representation in the work place I meantMar 22 19:05
DaemonFCUnion labor can't compete with foreign laborMar 22 19:05
DaemonFCand jobs go bye byeMar 22 19:05
DaemonFCUnion workers can be fired just as easy as non-Union, especially when the company goes under or offshoresMar 22 19:05
satiperaThat is the big question, what does the world do with all the labour it does not needMar 22 19:06
cubezzzyou just have to adaptMar 22 19:06
DaemonFCsatipera: So assume I'm the manager of a unionized Walmart, right (none exist, but lets pretend)Mar 22 19:06
DaemonFCYou work at that store.Mar 22 19:06
DaemonFCI come in pissed off one day and fire you.Mar 22 19:06
DaemonFCWhat can the union do for you?Mar 22 19:06
satiperaUsually not a lot look at what Borders did to the nascent union there before they went bustMar 22 19:07
DaemonFCDo you A. Get your job back. B. Bring some legal trouble on the company. C. Piss and moan because nobody else is going on strike just for you and I'd close the store, fire all of them, and rehire and break the union anyway.Mar 22 19:08
DaemonFCIf you chose C, you're correct.Mar 22 19:08
DaemonFCWalmart does not negotiate with unions. Walmart can, has, and will closed stores and cut departments to get rid of them.Mar 22 19:09
DaemonFCClosing up for a few weeks and running a hiring drive isn't out of the question.Mar 22 19:09
DaemonFCYou may have inconvenienced that company, but you're still fired.Mar 22 19:09
satiperaThen what do you say about those that say government should stay out of it and it is up to the disputing parties to go to law?Mar 22 19:09
DaemonFCsatipera: I'd provoke a strike and fire them all.Mar 22 19:10
DaemonFCjust like I saidMar 22 19:10
DaemonFCat that point I'm well within my rights.Mar 22 19:10
*WireWulf is now known as WireWulf-awayMar 22 19:10
satiperaWhen the balance of power is out of kilter that is when abuse occursMar 22 19:11
DaemonFCYour threats of a strike only matter to the point of how difficult you are to replace.Mar 22 19:11
DaemonFCRe-opening a store is a small price to pay to send the message.Mar 22 19:11
DaemonFCwithin 2 weeks, that store would be up and running again, fully staffed with new workersMar 22 19:12
DaemonFCand none of the old ones would ever be rehiredMar 22 19:12
satiperaThe whole idea of capitalism is that it supposedly becomes more and more efficient. Do you believe this?Mar 22 19:12
DaemonFCso congratulations to the union for getting 500 people firedMar 22 19:12
DaemonFCIn a way, it isMar 22 19:13
DaemonFCit's also more environmentally friendly in the long runMar 22 19:13
DaemonFCas companies don't like to cause waste as it adds to their overheadMar 22 19:13
satiperaI do not believe that, but let us accept it for the moment.Mar 22 19:13
DaemonFCWalmart put in skylights and turns off half their lighting during the dayMar 22 19:14
DaemonFCWalmart demanded that suppliers reduce packaging Mar 22 19:14
DaemonFCWalmart innovated the spill-absorbing floor as a standard feature of every supercenterMar 22 19:15
satiperaWith 6 billion people on the planet and capitalism becoming supposedly more and more efficient, I return to my earlier question what are we all going to do?Mar 22 19:15
DaemonFCit sucks up spills so nobody can slip on them, bust their ass, and sueMar 22 19:15
DaemonFCthey are being more efficientMar 22 19:15
DaemonFCthey also operate on a large scale, so they have better buying powerMar 22 19:16
DaemonFCnegotiating with suppliers to buy a billion of something gives you better unit price than a million of somethingMar 22 19:16
DaemonFCrecycling thousands of tons of cardboard and plastic every year that other stores may have thrown in the garbageMar 22 19:16
DaemonFCcharging stores 50-75 cents per break pack box they don't return to the Distribution CenterMar 22 19:17
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Ubuntu One Music Store Public Beta Open! 22 19:17
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Ubuntu One Music Store Public Beta Begins | blog .::. Size~: 33.99 KBMar 22 19:17
DaemonFCleaving an empty 52 foot semi trailer docked to store pallets in until it's ready to go backMar 22 19:17
satiperaYou are talking about the minutia , I am talking about the trends, again what are we all going to do when capitalism is supposedly so efficient it does not need many of us?Mar 22 19:18
DaemonFCbecause efficiency is in the detailsMar 22 19:18
DaemonFCevery way you operate your business has an impact on that efficiencyMar 22 19:18
satiperaYou are ignoring my questionMar 22 19:18
DaemonFCand even a 1% savings can mean tens of millions of dollarsMar 22 19:18
DaemonFCsatipera: Robots?Mar 22 19:19
satiperaRobots are just another method of shedding costly labourMar 22 19:20
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] The Ubuntu One Music Store is live in Lucid! Go test! Announce: Testers FAQ: #ubuntuMar 22 19:20
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Ubuntu One Blog  » Blog Archive   » Ubuntu One Music Store now in public beta .::. Size~: 11.78 KBMar 22 19:20
phIRCe-BNcTitle: UbuntuOne/MusicStore - Ubuntu Wiki .::. Size~: 25.02 KBMar 22 19:20
MinceRrobots are a way to hand menial labor off to entities that are well suited for it (by being nonsentient)Mar 22 19:20
satiperaAgain, what do we do with all the people capitalism does not need?Mar 22 19:21
MinceRwe select people and reduce reproduction so that we'll have a smaller but highly intelligent populationMar 22 19:24
satiperacapitalism is ultimately a massive own goal, it needs to have a social conscienceMar 22 19:24
MinceRlet machines do all the work and leave the inventing, creating and relaxing for ourselvesMar 22 19:24
satiperasorry mincer I was reading the text and not who was saying it. I assumed you were FCMar 22 19:25
MinceR:)Mar 22 19:25
satiperaYou are talking about redistribution and not capitalismMar 22 19:26
satiperaMy not very original point is that free markets are a myth and they are a myth because they do not workMar 22 19:28
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MinceRthey work until people realize that they can be subverted :>Mar 22 19:33
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schestowitz "@schestowitz There are still some who are trying to bring coverage to all w/o enslaving everyone to the insurers."Mar 22 19:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Walt Hucks (lnxwalt) 's status on Monday, 22-Mar-10 17:53:16 UTC - .::. Size~: 8.19 KBMar 22 19:34
schestowitzGlyn with another maddening headline: Free software's second era: The rise and fall of MySQL - 22 19:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Free software's second era: The rise and fall of MySQL - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 39.79 KBMar 22 19:34
schestowitzIt's not like him to use some of his recent headline that spread FUDMar 22 19:35
DaemonFCsatipera: I'm thinking like a business manager because I've been one at a couple of placesMar 22 19:36
DaemonFCYou really do have to admire some of the efficiencies that a company that scale can come up with.Mar 22 19:36
schestowitz 22 19:37
phIRCe-BNcTitle: 'Day of Wrath' brings Russians on to the streets against Vladimir Putin |World news |The Observer .::. Size~: 72.26 KBMar 22 19:37
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Quick Acire and Python Snippets Guide - #ubuntu #python #opportunisticdevelopersMar 22 19:37
phIRCe-BNcTitle:                   Quick Acire and Python Snippets Guide | jonobacon@home                     .::. Size~: 25.14 KBMar 22 19:37
DaemonFCBut the law isn't sufficiently strong to allow a union to have teeth, especially if it covers unskilled workers that only take a few days to train.Mar 22 19:38
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Format started a whole poll alienating GNU/FSF and now we end up with junk pieces from ECT. 22 19:38
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New name for ACTA: "Anti-Citizen Tyranny Agreement"Mar 22 19:38
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Welcome to TechNewsWorld .::. Size~: 2.81 KBMar 22 19:38
DaemonFCThat's not worth getting your paycheck docked for.Mar 22 19:38
DaemonFCCollege graduates in a field that is in high demand form successful unionsMar 22 19:40
DaemonFCHigh school dropouts working at Walmart don'tMar 22 19:40
schestowitz 22 19:40
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Walmart fires Michigan man for using medical marijuana  | | Grand Rapids, MI  .::. Size~: 95.3 KBMar 22 19:40
DaemonFCschestowitz: Against company policy.Mar 22 19:40
DaemonFC;)Mar 22 19:40
schestowitzHeh. 22 19:41
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Jediism - An Introduction to Jediism for Beginners .::. Size~: 21.3 KBMar 22 19:41
DaemonFCschestowitz: Michigan is an At-Will employment state, meaning that the manager can fire you for almost anythingMar 22 19:41
schestowitzAs valid AS ANY other religionMar 22 19:41
schestowitzAnd as truthfulMar 22 19:41
schestowitz 22 19:42
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Misunderstanding Buddhism - Things Most People Believe About Buddhism That Are Not True .::. Size~: 30.37 KBMar 22 19:42
schestowitzIt would be funny to make up some moreMar 22 19:43
schestowitzYikes! [nsfw] 22 19:43
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Afghanistan Crossroads -  - Blogs  .::. Size~: 115.5 KBMar 22 19:43
schestowitz 22 19:45
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Gordon Brown breaks promise over torture guidelines |World news |The Guardian .::. Size~: 73.5 KBMar 22 19:45
schestowitzDaemonFC: 22 19:45
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Detroit looks at downsizing to save city - Washington Times .::. Size~: 47.43 KBMar 22 19:45
schestowitz "An exhaustive study of a week's output of 10 Australian newspapers found that 55% of the stories were planted by PR campaigns. "Mar 22 19:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Over half your news is spin  Crikey .::. Size~: 75.7 KBMar 22 19:46
schestowitzRMS: "The copyright industry is starting to regret its propaganda term "pirate". "Mar 22 19:48
schestowitz"Since I recognized it as propaganda, I have rejected it, preferring terms such as "unauthorized copying" and "forbidden sharing". However, the Pirate Parties are trying a different tack, turning it into a badge of defiance like "Yankee". Maybe this is partly responsible for making the term less appealing as propaganda. "Mar 22 19:48
schestowitz 22 19:50
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Is the music industry trying to write the digital economy bill? | Cory Doctorow |Technology | .::. Size~: 135.1 KBMar 22 19:50
schestowitzHe wrongly called it "music indsutry"Mar 22 19:50
DaemonFCYankee Pirate Party ftw!Mar 22 19:50
DaemonFCB-)Mar 22 19:50
schestowitzIt's the RECORDING industryMar 22 19:50
schestowitzDaemonFC: Arrrrr you insane?Mar 22 19:50
DaemonFCI have been called that...Mar 22 19:50
DaemonFC:DMar 22 19:50
schestowitz 22 19:52
phIRCe-BNcTitle: MPs targeted in undercover sting over cash for influence |Politics |The Observer .::. Size~: 71.58 KBMar 22 19:52
schestowitz"A group of MPs, including former ministers, have been targeted in an elaborate sting operation in which journalists set up a bogus lobbying company and offered to pay them in return for political influence."Mar 22 19:52
schestowitzBribes\Mar 22 19:52
DaemonFC"In Vermont, a Yankee is somebody who eats pie for breakfast."Mar 22 19:53
DaemonFC:PMar 22 19:54
schestowitzDaemonFC: 22 19:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Comcast Labs and ISC Release Open Source Software to Facilitate IPv6 Transition - MarketWatch .::. Size~: 78.44 KBMar 22 19:55
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schestowitz'v'Mar 22 19:56
schestowitz'"Comcast has been a leader in IPv6 technology as well as a key contributor to the open source community in which IPv6 is based," said Paul Vixie, President of ISC. 'Mar 22 19:56
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schestowitzWindows Azure "(Disclaimer: I work at MSFT, but this post is my own, and I'm a pragmatist, not a zealot.) "Mar 22 20:04
schestowitzWhat an assholeMar 22 20:04
schestowitzHe implies other are zealots and he posts in a Linux thingMar 22 20:05
schestowitz 22 20:05
MinceRpragmatism: advertising his employer's products makes his prospects of getting paid better.Mar 22 20:08
Ender2070lolMar 22 20:08
MinceR(who cares if he helps them wreck the industry he supposedly works in?)Mar 22 20:08
Ender2070he calls his own company MSFTMar 22 20:09
Ender2070thats an insult afaik made up at slashdot because its their stock abbreviation, and they only understand moneyMar 22 20:10
MinceRnot everyone knows it's an insultMar 22 20:10
MinceR(i didn't)Mar 22 20:10
Ender2070its a more mature way of saying M$Mar 22 20:10
tessier_MSFT is shorter and the stock symbol. Lots of people do that.Mar 22 20:10
MinceRit's a more masked way of saying m$, if at allMar 22 20:11
Ender2070I know I use it because if I use m$ I get accused of being 13Mar 22 20:11
MinceRso if the m$ fanboys accuse you of being a zealot, you stop posting?Mar 22 20:12
Ender2070noMar 22 20:12
MinceRor you stop defending your views?Mar 22 20:12
Ender2070I still defend my viewsMar 22 20:12
MinceRthey'll have to get used to the fact that not everyone loves and respects their beloved company.Mar 22 20:12
Ender2070if they call me anti microsoft, I can call them pro microsoftMar 22 20:13
MinceRnot even if they're mature.Mar 22 20:13
Ender2070or that they are a microsoft apologistMar 22 20:13
Ender2070the most exteme is war crimes supporterMar 22 20:13
cubezzzwellMar 22 20:14
cubezzzwe are anti microsoft :)Mar 22 20:14
Ender2070yeah I am for sureMar 22 20:14
cubezzzI am for certainMar 22 20:14
Ender2070we're not all the same thoughMar 22 20:14
MinceRwell, everyone who wants the IT industry to prosper is anti-m$Mar 22 20:14
MinceRunless they're grossly misguidedMar 22 20:15
cubezzzI want more choiceMar 22 20:15
cubezzznot endless computer stores with wintel onlyMar 22 20:15
MinceR(and think that planned economy under the rule of Steve the First is the way to go for this industry)Mar 22 20:15
cubezzze.g. we used to have Amiga, Atari...Mar 22 20:16
cubezzzAcorn...Mar 22 20:17
cubezzzall gone nowMar 22 20:17
*sebsebseb (~3seb@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovellMar 22 20:17
sebsebsebABCDEFGMar 22 20:17
cubezzzand of course iyonix is no longer producedMar 22 20:18
Ender2070even OS/2Mar 22 20:18
cubezzzis OS/2 updated at all?Mar 22 20:18
Ender2070www.ecomstation.comMar 22 20:18
cubezzzoh and Sparc I think it's dead nowMar 22 20:19
sebsebsebHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZMar 22 20:20
cubezzzstill alive: Sharp, Panasonic, Acer, ToshibaMar 22 20:20
sebsebsebÖMar 22 20:20
Ender2070eww acer sucksMar 22 20:20
sebsebsebÄMar 22 20:20
sebsebsebÅMar 22 20:20
*satipera has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)Mar 22 20:21
sebsebsebno it's the two Ä Å  first then the Ö  I think, in the Swedish alphabet.Mar 22 20:22
schestowitzEwww;jsessionid=UZCM4VXBJFTG3QE1GHPCKHWATMY32JVN Dr Dobbs is TechWeb now!!!!!!!!11Mar 22 20:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Dr Dobbs - Microsoft Announces Plans for HTML 5 Support, Open Source Committments .::. Size~: 63.46 KBMar 22 20:22
sebsebsebHow is everyone today?Mar 22 20:22
cubezzzcan't complainMar 22 20:22
sebsebsebschestowitz: yes Interent Explorer 9 will have HTML 5 support apparantlyMar 22 20:22
cubezzzhmmmmmMar 22 20:23
sebsebsebof course for it to have proper HTML 5, support they must support it properly, and most of HTML 5.Mar 22 20:23
sebsebsebor even all of HTML 5,  but probably no browser will just support all of it 100%  and how w3c want it.Mar 22 20:23
sebsebsebThey don't all do HTML 4.01 the same even for example.Mar 22 20:24
schestowitzNot my point thoughMar 22 20:24
Ender2070the w3c might change itMar 22 20:24
Ender2070jeff jaffeMar 22 20:24
schestowitzI posted this to show there's a Microsoft tieMar 22 20:24
schestowitzDr. DobbsMar 22 20:24
schestowitzTechWebMar 22 20:24
sebsebsebschestowitz: oh right well I haven't been on the article yetMar 22 20:24
schestowitzJeff Jah-Feh!Mar 22 20:24
sebsebsebschestowitz: also yeah some Microsoft poeple in w3c now.Mar 22 20:24
sebsebsebplus Microsoft have been members for years, but  pretty much just ignored w3c and did their own thing with IE.Mar 22 20:25
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Looks like the Ubuntu One Music Store is getting a kicking.Mar 22 20:25
sebsebsebUbuntu One Music Store is getting a kicking?Mar 22 20:25
sebsebsebWhat does that mean, they are getting rid of it?Mar 22 20:25
sebsebsebOr it's being improved?Mar 22 20:25
schestowitz 22 20:26
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Manteca Bulletin - Purses open source of income for recession victim .::. Size~: 43.73 KBMar 22 20:26
sebsebseboh yeah jono is in here, he can probably answer thatMar 22 20:26
schestowitzhe is busyMar 22 20:26
schestowitzCommunicating with DaemonFOX telepathicallyMar 22 20:26
sebsebsebschestowitz: you mean using Empathy?Mar 22 20:27
sebsebsebschestowitz: oh  DeamonFOX not DeamonFC?Mar 22 20:27
schestowitz*LOL*Mar 22 20:27
schestowitzNo, telepathyMar 22 20:27
sebsebsebschestowitz: yeah Empathy uses that telepathy thingMar 22 20:27
schestowitzapt-get install telepthy && troll jono -hMar 22 20:27
schestowitzsebsebseb: 22 20:28
phIRCe-BNcTitle: BBC's iPlayer verification blocks open source software  |Technology | .::. Size~: 108.86 KBMar 22 20:28
schestowitzYour tax quids at workMar 22 20:28
sebsebsebschestowitz: Tax right,  not everyone pays tax yet, since the age, or benefits or whatever.  Do you pay tax?Mar 22 20:29
MinceREnder2070: OS/2 is deadMar 22 20:29
MinceRthe company selling eComStation couldn't even get the source code, afaikMar 22 20:29
sebsebsebschestowitz: right so he's talking to DeamonFC?Mar 22 20:31
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DaemonFCmy water pump just blew upMar 22 20:36
DaemonFCwonderfulMar 22 20:36
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] Assholes at Bean & Bean told me free wifi is not free. #fail #lieMar 22 20:37
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] At least some friendly neighbour wiith a linksys router in defaultmode was aroundMar 22 20:39
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] Annoy Rupert Murdoch, break the news paywall ie only for the moment unfortunately. Read about at inquirer http:/ 22 20:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle:                     Annoy rupert murdoch, break the news paywall - The Inquirer          .::. Size~: 56.63 KBMar 22 20:55
sebsebsebschestowitz: Yes yes I know BBC, anyway what the?   I am pretty sure not that long ago France and Germeny were both recommending Firefox to loads of people, and now Germany do this? 22 20:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 86.89 KBMar 22 20:57
sebsebsebalso no browser is 100%  secure, well maybe Lynx or something like that, text only browsers, but probably not even  those.Mar 22 20:58
sebsebsebschestowitz: Also I think sometimes BBC has had articles where they are telling people it's good.Mar 22 21:00
sebsebsebI only just started reading the acrticle itself when commenting here, so quite a lot yet to read, it's the headline that got me.Mar 22 21:00
sebsebsebschestowitz: ok so something in there about not just changing browser when there is a security hole as well.Mar 22 21:03
DaemonFCheheheMar 22 21:03
DaemonFCI just leaked the fact that that guy that lives with my crazy neighbor is living over thereMar 22 21:03
DaemonFClandlord isn't happy, but I just mentioned it in passing :)Mar 22 21:04
sebsebsebThe head line says this, but the article doesn't exactly say it.  Silly BBC in this case.   Also the article confirms the BBC sillyness.  "Firefox was not immediately available for comment."  Of course not it's a browser how can it be available for comment?  They should have put Mozilla,  or maybe being more exact something like this,  the Mozlla Organisation the Mozilla Corporation.  The Mozilla CEOMar 22 21:04
sebsebsebDaemonFC: lives over where?Mar 22 21:04
DaemonFCwith that crazy neighbor ladyMar 22 21:05
DaemonFChe's not on the leaseMar 22 21:05
schestowitzsebsebseb: maybe they speak to wolves Mar 22 21:05
DaemonFCand he's hiding out from the copsMar 22 21:05
sebsebsebabove that was meant to say, the ending of the article confirms the BBC sillyness.Mar 22 21:05
schestowitzsebsebseb: so did he rape her?Mar 22 21:05
sebsebsebschestowitz: uh?Mar 22 21:05
schestowitzWhile she, as you say, shaved his back (EWWWWW!!!!)Mar 22 21:05
schestowitzOopsMar 22 21:06
sebsebsebschestowitz: I am not followingMar 22 21:06
schestowitzI meant it to be @ DaemonFOXMar 22 21:06
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schestowitzMinceR: 22 21:06
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MinceR:>Mar 22 21:07
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] On this day in 1994, Pantera released Far Beyond Driven. The album debuted at #1 on the Billboard chart. - love it!Mar 22 21:11
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Pantera Official Store» Far Beyond Driven CD .::. Size~: 14.19 KBMar 22 21:11
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schestowitz 22 21:20
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- 11 -- Creation 'Science' Made Easy .::. Size~: 104.75 KBMar 22 21:20
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@stephintoronto kid may be cute but..does not entitle u to cut in at starbucks w SUV sized stroller /c'est la Starbucks, try independent?Mar 22 21:35
schestowitzThis one is funny. 22 21:35
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- Atheist now accepts Intelligent Design .::. Size~: 110.24 KBMar 22 21:35
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@scottEweinberg @reeldistraction debate about Act 3 of #ALIEN. He has a major prob w/ alien "sleeping" in the shuttle // blog the details?Mar 22 21:36
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] ppl seem to think I should agree that knocking my beautiful century-old house down for high density housing is a good idea. Err, no. #greedMar 22 21:39
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Dear #apple, you may need to make #spotlight less aggressive. I think I just caught it indexing my #TimeMachine backup partition. #osxMar 22 21:45
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] Annoy Rupert Murdoch, break the news paywall ie only for the moment unfortunately. Read about at inquirer, correct link. 22 22:02
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DaemonFCI wonder if UPS just ships it around the whole god damned country a few times to make it take longer if you don't buy their most expensive shippingMar 22 22:11
DaemonFCI really doMar 22 22:11
Balrog_DaemonFC: no they don'tMar 22 22:12
DaemonFCno, but I really do wonder why every fulfillment warehouse has to be on the Pacific coastMar 22 22:12
Balrog_well, not exactlyMar 22 22:12
Balrog_what they do is put it on a truck that makes MANY stopsMar 22 22:12
Balrog_cheap China airmail works the sameMar 22 22:13
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DaemonFCthree time zones to the West, and straight on til morningMar 22 22:13
DaemonFCright? :)Mar 22 22:13
oiaohmHow many towns/cities in that distance.Mar 22 22:14
DaemonFCthousandsMar 22 22:14
DaemonFCtends of thousandsMar 22 22:14
DaemonFC*tensMar 22 22:14
oiaohmBecause you can bet there will be a stop at least 50 percent of them.Mar 22 22:14
DaemonFC03/19/2010 20:48:00ORIGIN SCAN[I]CERRITOS, CA, USMar 22 22:15
oiaohmWhen it turns up  like 6 months latter it took the wrong trunk.Mar 22 22:15
DaemonFC03/22/2010 13:49:00ARRIVAL SCAN[I]LOUISVILLE, KY, USMar 22 22:15
DaemonFCthat's where it's at nowMar 22 22:15
oiaohmArrival scan means the package has been scanned so handled at taht location.Mar 22 22:16
oiaohmAll these things cost time DaemonFCMar 22 22:16
oiaohmTracking is one of the major things that make movements slower.Mar 22 22:16
DaemonFC214 miles southMar 22 22:17
DaemonFCround aboutMar 22 22:17
oiaohmLenght of road is not the issue.Mar 22 22:17
DaemonFCit's how many stopsMar 22 22:17
DaemonFCI knowMar 22 22:17
oiaohmNumber of stops is and how many times it has to scanned.Mar 22 22:17
oiaohmScanning is a time consuming process.Mar 22 22:18
oiaohmEverything basically moved around in the back of truck at best.Mar 22 22:18
oiaohmAt worst everything unloaded and reloaded.Mar 22 22:18
oiaohmAlso the other cost is how many interconnects it has todo. DaemonFCMar 22 22:19
oiaohmIe change trucks.Mar 22 22:19
DaemonFCYeah, what sucks is if they mark it "signature required" and you have to drive up to Fort Wayne to get itMar 22 22:19
DaemonFCUPS doesn't bother to find your apartment, they just say nobody was homeMar 22 22:19
DaemonFCand take it on up thereMar 22 22:19
oiaohmHad transport company say the same to me.Mar 22 22:20
Balrog_UPS is annoyingMar 22 22:20
Balrog_so is FedExMar 22 22:20
oiaohmThey did not like being pointed out that I had evidence that I was in all day and they did not turn up at all.Mar 22 22:20
oiaohmThe problem of not turning up on the day when testing a secuirty system for a customer with them inspecting how it working.Mar 22 22:21
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Upgrading the Aleutia T1 to Ubuntu Lucid. I don't expect any issues.Mar 22 22:21
oiaohmNever had a problem since like what you say DaemonFCMar 22 22:22
DaemonFChmmm, how much tax is Ballmer going to have to pay towards the health care subsidies of the poor?Mar 22 22:23
DaemonFCit's an additional 3.5% tax on income over $200,000Mar 22 22:23
DaemonFCand Microsoft will be taxed on his "Cadillac" insuranceMar 22 22:24
DaemonFCHow much income does Ballmer make over $200,000?Mar 22 22:24
DaemonFCsatipera: Oddly enough, Walmart wanted this bill to passMar 22 22:25
satiperahow soMar 22 22:25
DaemonFCcause now they can shove more of their own employees onto MedicaidMar 22 22:25
DaemonFCisn't that something?Mar 22 22:25
satiperayes like taxpayers here subsidise low paid jobs for the employersMar 22 22:26
DaemonFCif that employee is "part time", they can get away with shoving them onto Medicaid without paying a fine for doing itMar 22 22:26
DaemonFCand the Medicaid income limit has gone up by 33%Mar 22 22:26
oiaohmHere we have multiable.Mar 22 22:26
oiaohmIf you are over 150 000 income and you don't have private insurance you have to pay double to use goverment provided medical.Mar 22 22:27
DaemonFCPoverty guideline is $10,830 for one person. 33% above that is $14,403.90Mar 22 22:28
DaemonFCa lot of Walmart workers make under thatMar 22 22:28
oiaohmAlso our high end tax rate 45 percent.Mar 22 22:28
oiaohmProblem is our tax law has too many loop holes to avoid paying.Mar 22 22:28
DaemonFCYou pay your workers under $276 a week, you get to dump them on MedicaidMar 22 22:29
DaemonFCof course Walmart is going to love thisMar 22 22:29
oiaohmRecently 1 loophole was closed.   Place money over seas or money made over seas now has to be counted here.Mar 22 22:29
DaemonFCmost of their employees are just under thatMar 22 22:29
DaemonFCespecially since they have mainly part timers nowMar 22 22:29
oiaohmReally look closer at your tax law Ballmer would have good accountants.Mar 22 22:29
DaemonFCThis is a "Dump your poor part time workers on Medicaid and get away with it" lawMar 22 22:30
DaemonFC:PMar 22 22:30
oiaohmOne of the most redickulas ones was packer here a billion are.   Who turned out to be getting a tax refund for all of his tax due to loop holes.Mar 22 22:30
oiaohmOf course a lot have been closed since then.Mar 22 22:31
DaemonFCWhat's worse is that Walmart could say that your Medicaid benefits compensate you fro working 32 hours instead of 40Mar 22 22:31
DaemonFC:)Mar 22 22:31
satiperaI remember himMar 22 22:31
DaemonFCthey have been caught handing out papers explaining how to get on food stamps and Medicaid beforeMar 22 22:31
oiaohmIf it legally right why not.Mar 22 22:32
DaemonFCthe new income limit is at least more fair in that single men with no kids would get turned away more often than a baby machine welfare mom Mar 22 22:32
DaemonFC:PMar 22 22:32
DaemonFCunder the existing system that isMar 22 22:32
oiaohmnot like working 8 hours longer does you body any good.Mar 22 22:33
oiaohmI would put that under caring for staff.Mar 22 22:33
DaemonFCIt wouldn't kill people to work 40 hours a weekMar 22 22:33
DaemonFCpeople used to have to put up with 70 hour weeksMar 22 22:33
DaemonFCI've had to do 60+ hour weeks many timesMar 22 22:33
MinceRwould you like to work 70h every week?Mar 22 22:34
oiaohmAnd a lot that worked 70 a week doing like shelf stacking now have damage joints.  DaemonFCMar 22 22:34
oiaohmBasically human body can only repair wear and tear so fast.Mar 22 22:34
DaemonFCtrapped 60 hours under florescent lighting, pecking away at a computer, bitching at people, getting bitched at, and then staying over to stock shelves because we were over payroll and I had t osend that guy homeMar 22 22:35
DaemonFCand not matter how many hours I was there, I only got paid for 48Mar 22 22:35
DaemonFC*noMar 22 22:35
oiaohmWe were stupid about this a long time ago and it did not really matter because we were not going to live long enoughMar 22 22:35
oiaohmLonger life equals longer you have to make body work for.Mar 22 22:36
DaemonFC40 hour work week should be standardMar 22 22:36
MinceRit is :>Mar 22 22:36
oiaohm  << Great how long before this is used to attack Open SourceMar 22 22:36
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Sailors beware: P2P piracy will sink your jobs by 2015 .::. Size~: 33.32 KBMar 22 22:36
DaemonFCovertime should really be more like time + 3/4thsMar 22 22:36
oiaohmDepends on work DaemonFCMar 22 22:36
oiaohmHere 32 hours is for anything requiring lots of joint work.Mar 22 22:37
DaemonFCyeah, but that means less payMar 22 22:37
satiperaWe are only really designed to last until the grandchildren are old enough to look after themselvesMar 22 22:37
oiaohmSitting at a computer can damage joints in hands.Mar 22 22:37
DaemonFCless hours, less payMar 22 22:37
DaemonFCliving wages generally assume 40 hour work weekMar 22 22:38
oiaohmSecurity guards are allow todo up to 50 hours a week no problems.Mar 22 22:38
oiaohmIe lot of the time sitting in car or standing still.Mar 22 22:38
DaemonFCI always tried to have full time employeesMar 22 22:38
oiaohmOr sitting watching screens.Mar 22 22:38
DaemonFClower turnoverMar 22 22:38
DaemonFCyeah, anyone can be replaced, but having 2-3 people quit each week gets annoyingMar 22 22:39
DaemonFCand with part timers, you get thatMar 22 22:39
oiaohmTraining and getting to know how trustable they are costs a lot of time.Mar 22 22:40
DaemonFCyou give someone 28 hours a week at $8 an hour, nobody stays for longMar 22 22:40
oiaohmSomething cheep scate businesses don't take into account.Mar 22 22:40
oiaohmA extra dollar per hour no to have turning over can be profitable.Mar 22 22:40
DaemonFCjust having fewer employees with more hours each makes productivity go upMar 22 22:40
DaemonFCthe problem is the law expects some kind of benefits package for full time employeesMar 22 22:41
DaemonFCso pressure is on to systematically fire the people most likely to cost the insurance plan the most moneyMar 22 22:41
oiaohmHmm does the law over there have the loop hole of two different job titles?Mar 22 22:42
DaemonFCthey can't say it that way or it would be illegalMar 22 22:42
oiaohmDoing 2 different things DaemonFCMar 22 22:42
DaemonFCoiaohm: Well, it's possible, but you have to look outMar 22 22:42
oiaohmSo they are part time on both so not full time.Mar 22 22:42
DaemonFCcalling someone a supervisor makes them management in the eyes of labor lawMar 22 22:42
DaemonFCalso, Walmart slips you a little bit of stock when you work thereMar 22 22:43
oiaohmIts like ones here.Mar 22 22:43
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] Byers suspended from parliamentary Labour PartyMar 22 22:43
DaemonFCnot a lot, just enough to say you're management if a union tries to organizeMar 22 22:43
oiaohmThey have shelf stacks and check  out operators and so on.Mar 22 22:43
oiaohmthey even have a class for floor walker.Mar 22 22:43
DaemonFC"Look, he has a share of stock! He can't be in a union!"Mar 22 22:43
oiaohmEach are independant jobs.  DaemonFCMar 22 22:43
oiaohmso avoiding the full time problem.Mar 22 22:44
DaemonFCEmployers also like to call you an independent contractor to fuck you out of your rights under labor lawMar 22 22:44
oiaohmHere that is harder.Mar 22 22:44
oiaohmto be a independant contractor you have to supply gear.Mar 22 22:44
DaemonFCwell, if you have two job classifications, you're still full time if you go over 34 hoursMar 22 22:44
oiaohmTo be correct more gear than what you can carry on a push bike legally.  DaemonFCMar 22 22:45
DaemonFCIf Walmart gives you two job classifications, you get paid for the one you spend more time doingMar 22 22:45
oiaohmIf you can carry all you need for work on a push bike here you legally cannot be a independant contractor.Mar 22 22:45
DaemonFCso if you have 16 hours as a "Customer Service Supervisor" and 24 as a cashierMar 22 22:45
DaemonFCyou get paid as a cashierMar 22 22:45
MinceRwhy "push bike"?Mar 22 22:46
DaemonFCthey like to do that so they can get some cheap coverage on the regular supervisor's nights offMar 22 22:46
DaemonFCthey'll tell you you're being "trained for when a position comes open"Mar 22 22:46
oiaohmAustralian law sometimes it was someones bright idea MinceRMar 22 22:46
satiperaMincer, because people get off them to push them up a hillMar 22 22:46
oiaohmBasically if you can get what you need to the job under human power.  MinceRMar 22 22:47
oiaohmBefore push bikes being here in numbers it what you could carry on foot.Mar 22 22:48
satiperaMissed that, thought it was a tangential questionMar 22 22:48
oiaohmThat is the problem DaemonFC  Here the loop hold Customer Service Supervisor and cashier would have been independant pay slips.Mar 22 22:49
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @satipera Annoy Rupert Murdoch, break the news paywall ie only for the moment unfortunately. 22 22:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle:                     Annoy rupert murdoch, break the news paywall - The Inquirer          .::. Size~: 57.63 KBMar 22 22:59
DaemonFCoiaohm: So two separate checks?Mar 22 23:00
oiaohmYep DaemonFCMar 22 23:01
DaemonFCThat would be nice, stop a lot of Walmart abuseMar 22 23:01
DaemonFCbasically they get to work you up to 19 hours in the supervisor job without giving you the 75 cent an hour bonusMar 22 23:01
DaemonFCtwo shifts is $12, but it is money they should be paying youMar 22 23:01
DaemonFCyou know?Mar 22 23:02
DaemonFCI've never agreed with that practice, they did it on every shift to save $30 of payroll a dayMar 22 23:02
DaemonFCpenny pinchersMar 22 23:02
oiaohmYep if it legal works it also reduced turnover.Mar 22 23:03
DaemonFCwell, that's just the front end thoughMar 22 23:03
oiaohmNothing makes staff unhappy faster than thinking they are not getting paid for work.Mar 22 23:03
oiaohmNow even if it works out they are getting paid less but it appears to have paid them every hour they are happer.Mar 22 23:04
oiaohmStaff stealing rates drop as well.  DaemonFCMar 22 23:04
DaemonFCYes, most retail theft is done by the employeesMar 22 23:04
DaemonFCabout two-thirds of itMar 22 23:04
oiaohmHappier staff the less they steal.Mar 22 23:05
oiaohmHere no so much.Mar 22 23:05
oiaohmMost staff in super markets are  happy.Mar 22 23:05
DaemonFCIt's not really the customers you have to watch so much as your own employeesMar 22 23:05
oiaohmIs about 90 percent customers who have taken goods.Mar 22 23:05
DaemonFCthey start finding ways to rip you off little by littleMar 22 23:05
oiaohmSo only 10 percent staffMar 22 23:05
oiaohmYou are bring 20 percent on the business buy staff being unhappy.Mar 22 23:06
oiaohmand too much staff turn over.Mar 22 23:06
DaemonFCWhat Wal-Mart won't tell you is that most of the cameras in their stores are just empty plastic globesMar 22 23:06
oiaohmOk way more.Mar 22 23:06
DaemonFCthe only ones guaranteed to be real are in Cosmetics and ElectronicsMar 22 23:06
oiaohmSo you mean staff steal rates are over 60 percent.  DaemonFCMar 22 23:07
DaemonFCyesMar 22 23:07
oiaohmEepMar 22 23:07
DaemonFCSometimes it's the managersMar 22 23:07
oiaohmThey need to come to Australia and see how woolworths and coles does it.Mar 22 23:08
DaemonFCThere was a Tire and Lube Express manager in Mooresville, driving up to the Indianapolis downtown stores right?Mar 22 23:08
oiaohm15 percent rate due to staff is called bad.Mar 22 23:08
DaemonFChe'd charge out inventory saying his store was outMar 22 23:08
oiaohm10 is call resonable.Mar 22 23:08
oiaohm5 percent is called good.Mar 22 23:08
DaemonFCnever charge it to his own storeMar 22 23:08
DaemonFCLoss Prevention found it on eBayMar 22 23:09
DaemonFC$50,000 worth of theft right thereMar 22 23:09
oiaohmI guess he was working more hours than he was paid.Mar 22 23:09
DaemonFCOur store manager would steal display models for herself after we were done using them in storeMar 22 23:10
DaemonFCshe's claims it out as "customer destroyed it" or somethingMar 22 23:10
DaemonFChave the employees load it in the back of her pickup truckMar 22 23:10
oiaohmOk that is part stupidity.Mar 22 23:10
oiaohmHere store managers can request store display models at no cost.Mar 22 23:11
DaemonFCyes, I sent the security recordings of that to the District ManagerMar 22 23:11
DaemonFCanonymouslyMar 22 23:11
DaemonFCshe was firedMar 22 23:11
DaemonFChave to watch out, she could have been part of a theft ringMar 22 23:11
*WireWulf-away is now known as WireWulfMar 22 23:11
DaemonFCthe DM might have been in on it for all I knewMar 22 23:11
oiaohmSo no motivation to steal the display models.Mar 22 23:11
oiaohmIf you ask for it legally you get a warnitery.Mar 22 23:11
DaemonFCit's also considered theft if you mark something down and then buy itMar 22 23:12
oiaohmThis is perventive theift control.  DaemonFCMar 22 23:12
DaemonFCeven if the price was reasonableMar 22 23:12
oiaohmBasically you have your complete system screwed up.Mar 22 23:12
DaemonFCthey don't nitpick on the little thingsMar 22 23:12
oiaohmNo wonder they are losing so much.Mar 22 23:13
DaemonFCoiaohm: I used to mark down groceries appropriately, right?Mar 22 23:13
DaemonFCfor closeoutMar 22 23:13
DaemonFCand then immediately stock up on the good stuff after my shiftMar 22 23:13
oiaohmThat is required here.Mar 22 23:13
DaemonFCwell, technically I wasn't allowed to do thatMar 22 23:14
oiaohmColes and woolworths trades on being providers of fresh food.Mar 22 23:14
DaemonFCbut really I wasn't doing wrongMar 22 23:14
DaemonFCso nobody made an issueMar 22 23:14
DaemonFCnow if I marked them all down to five centsMar 22 23:14
oiaohmSo end of shift old stock that has not  be shifted has to be discounted.Mar 22 23:14
DaemonFCthat would have been a problemMar 22 23:14
oiaohmYes people on budget learn when end of shift is.Mar 22 23:14
oiaohmAlso selling stuff past usable date for money here lands stores in trouble as well.Mar 22 23:15
oiaohmIe they are not legally allowed to sell stuff past use by dates.Mar 22 23:15
oiaohmYes another form of internal store kick back we have to staff.Mar 22 23:16
DaemonFChave to throw it out, claims itMar 22 23:16
DaemonFCcharge back the company that makes itMar 22 23:16
oiaohmIts close to expired staff get it if they want it.Mar 22 23:16
oiaohmNo reverse claim system here DaemonFCMar 22 23:16
oiaohmIf you don't sell it the problem is all yours.Mar 22 23:17
DaemonFCWalmart's supplier agreement for groceries states that the supplier refunds Walmart for anything that expires or was damaged too much to sell (even if Walmart did it)Mar 22 23:17
oiaohmWould not be legal here.  DaemonFCMar 22 23:17
DaemonFCalso, if you eat something that should be going to claims, you get firedMar 22 23:17
oiaohmIf item was delivied defective yes is legal.Mar 22 23:18
DaemonFCof course I've broken that rule beforeMar 22 23:18
oiaohmIf it was delvied fine it completely the yours to deal with.Mar 22 23:18
DaemonFCthere was one time in particular where a small bit of a key lime pie got crushed in shippingMar 22 23:18
DaemonFCso I stood in the freezer and chowed down on frozen key lime pieMar 22 23:18
DaemonFCthat was lunch, lolMar 22 23:19
oiaohmThat is the problem DaemonFCMar 22 23:19
oiaohmTemptation.Mar 22 23:19
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DaemonFCyeaqh, it was goodMar 22 23:19
oiaohmHere staff have no reason to fall for temptation.Mar 22 23:19
DaemonFCwent to the breakroom and washed it down with some coffeeMar 22 23:19
oiaohmThere is a stack of goods that are about to expire they are more than welcome to eat.Mar 22 23:20
DaemonFCoiaohm: It was damagedMar 22 23:20
DaemonFCit wasn't able to be soldMar 22 23:20
oiaohmEating damaged not allowed.Mar 22 23:20
DaemonFCI threw the container in the claims binMar 22 23:20
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] there needlled "Rumpy & Pumpy"s to be a comedy double act called Rumpy & Pumpy, with Mr Chumbly Warner voices and lots of swearingMar 22 23:20
oiaohmBecause you could get sick.Mar 22 23:20
DaemonFCWalmart got paidMar 22 23:20
oiaohmyou think of it if all the stuff that has like 1 day left to expirelyMar 22 23:20
oiaohmIf staff were allowed to eat it.Mar 22 23:21
oiaohmReally could staff eat it all at times.  DaemonFCMar 22 23:21
DaemonFCoiaohm: It was froze solid, just some idiot crushed a bit of itMar 22 23:21
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] wow choqok REALLY helps you make typos, welldone that clientMar 22 23:21
DaemonFCthe policy is there so people don't break open and eat perfectly good merchandiseMar 22 23:21
DaemonFCI didn't do thatMar 22 23:21
oiaohmHere being close to expire it not perfectly good merchandise any more.Mar 22 23:22
DaemonFCthere was also the time I ate a container of Edys DibsMar 22 23:22
DaemonFClittle balls of chocolate covered ice cream with carmel and nuts in themMar 22 23:22
DaemonFCthose are goodMar 22 23:22
oiaohmAnd that stuff that does expire normally goes to a form of free shop.Mar 22 23:22
oiaohmIe turn up there with a health care card and take what you want for nothing.Mar 22 23:23
DaemonFCmanufacturers print the expiration date a few months ahead of when it'll actually hurt youMar 22 23:23
DaemonFCespecially on canned goods Mar 22 23:23
oiaohmThat was to prevent dumpster diving.  DaemonFCMar 22 23:23
oiaohmExactly the food is safe to eat still.Mar 22 23:23
DaemonFCthere is no dumpster diving at WalmartMar 22 23:24
oiaohmShops selling the expired goods have information from the manufacturers on that.Mar 22 23:24
DaemonFCthe trash compactor and dumpster are locked awayMar 22 23:24
cubezzzdumpster diving rings a bellMar 22 23:24
cubezzzoh yeah, Gates and Basic ;-)Mar 22 23:24
cubezzztsk tskMar 22 23:24
oiaohmDaemonFC: basically better handle waste less thiefing.Mar 22 23:24
DaemonFCoiaohm: Why do you think I was pissed when Marsh closed?Mar 22 23:24
DaemonFCI used to go there and load up on canned goodsMar 22 23:25
DaemonFCnow there's nowhere to dumpster dive atMar 22 23:25
DaemonFCwell, not only thatMar 22 23:25
DaemonFCit doesn't draw animals inMar 22 23:25
DaemonFCpossums, raccoons, stray dogs...Mar 22 23:25
oiaohmAustralia.  What animalsMar 22 23:26
cubezzzhow long is it safe to keep canned food?Mar 22 23:26
oiaohmLot of bins here dogs cannot get into.Mar 22 23:26
oiaohmDepends on the food cubezzzMar 22 23:26
DaemonFCcubezzz: Usually a year or moreMar 22 23:26
DaemonFCsometimes up to 3 yearsMar 22 23:26
oiaohmSome canned food is good for 100 yearsMar 22 23:26
cubezzzwowMar 22 23:26
oiaohmIf you would trust eating it that old.Mar 22 23:26
DaemonFCcanned tune is good for 3Mar 22 23:26
DaemonFCcanned corn is good for 2Mar 22 23:26
DaemonFC*tunaMar 22 23:27
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cubezzzI haven't noticed expiration dates on cansMar 22 23:27
DaemonFCactually, I think some canned tuna is good for 5 yearsMar 22 23:27
DaemonFCcause I swear I bought that stuff in 2007Mar 22 23:27
oiaohmIt more comes down to 3 factors.Mar 22 23:27
DaemonFCand it says good til 2011Mar 22 23:27
DaemonFCerr 4 yearsMar 22 23:27
oiaohm1 was the stuff canned hot.Mar 22 23:27
oiaohmIe cooked.Mar 22 23:27
cubezzzdo they even print the year on the can?Mar 22 23:28
DaemonFCyeah, canned hash is only good for a yearMar 22 23:28
oiaohmThat expands the self life a lot.Mar 22 23:28
oiaohmStuff like corn that is packed cold has a short live.Mar 22 23:28
DaemonFCcubezzz: You mean you've never played the fruitcake game?Mar 22 23:28
oiaohmBut pre cooked soops and the like have a lot longer self life.Mar 22 23:28
cubezzzah noMar 22 23:28
cubezzzinterestingMar 22 23:29
oiaohmNext if it is cooked will it eat it way out can.Mar 22 23:29
DaemonFCYou get a fruitcake for Christmas one year, you re-wrap it and give it to someone else next yearMar 22 23:29
cubezzzno,no I don't do that :)Mar 22 23:29
oiaohmIe stuff like tomatoos should be in bottles not cans.Mar 22 23:29
cubezzzactually I stopped eating fruitcake :)Mar 22 23:29
tessier_cubezzz: Why on earth did you ever start?Mar 22 23:29
cubezzztradition I guessMar 22 23:30
DaemonFCcubezzz: Fruitcake will survive a nuclear warMar 22 23:30
*tessier_ makes a note to stock his doomsday bunker with fruitcakeMar 22 23:30
oiaohmI have a historic store here that has some 150 year old cans on shelf.Mar 22 23:30
oiaohmIn theory they are safe to eat.Mar 22 23:30
schestowitzfruitcake fallout...Mar 22 23:30
DaemonFCI wouldn'tMar 22 23:30
oiaohmI am not going to be the one to find out.Mar 22 23:30
cubezzzah, I think after 10 years I wouldn't want to try it Mar 22 23:31
oiaohmOne is a canned chrismas pudding.Mar 22 23:31
tessier_schestowitz: That's no joking matter, one could be seriously injured by a falling fruitcake.Mar 22 23:31
cubezzzI'm pretty sure I have some cans from 1996Mar 22 23:31
schestowitztessier_: causes nausea Mar 22 23:31
oiaohmYep 150 year old chrismas pudding could be scary.Mar 22 23:31
schestowitzElaine found outMar 22 23:32
cubezzzoiaohm, how about 50 year old canned coke? :)Mar 22 23:32
schestowitz1 day old coke is also bad for youMar 22 23:32
DaemonFCfresh fruitcake will plug you up worse than maple syrup and peanut butterMar 22 23:32
cubezzzmaybe it would eat out of the can before that :)Mar 22 23:32
oiaohmcoke a cola breaks down and eats it way out can.Mar 22 23:32
DaemonFCnuh uhMar 22 23:32
oiaohmNo way I would want to be trying to drink it.Mar 22 23:32
schestowitzIt's also bad for others. 22 23:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KBMar 22 23:33
schestowitzOops. 22 23:33
cubezzzoiaohm, find a bottle of coke old enough and it might have cocaine in it :)Mar 22 23:33
DaemonFCschestowitz: I'm going to send Ballmer a fruitcake this ChristmasMar 22 23:33
schestowitzI thought of that too, but it's old than 50Mar 22 23:33
oiaohmDaemonFC:  the fruit cake game does not get played here.Mar 22 23:33
schestowitzDaemonFC: send him yourself? :"-)Mar 22 23:33
DaemonFCwith any luck he'll eat it and plug himself upMar 22 23:33
DaemonFCdie of an impaction Mar 22 23:34
schestowitzHe was on a diet for a whileMar 22 23:34
schestowitzAnd shaved his headMar 22 23:34
oiaohmOur loins chrismas fruit cakes are too nice not to eat.  DaemonFCMar 22 23:34
schestowitzNow he's back to being *ahem* 'healthy;'Mar 22 23:34
oiaohmAnd would kinda mold badly in 12 months.  DaemonFCMar 22 23:34
oiaohmThey are almost 50 percent fruitMar 22 23:34
DaemonFCoiaohm: There's no such thing as a good fruitcakeMar 22 23:34
oiaohmAlmost as soft as mud cake.  DaemonFCMar 22 23:35
phIRCe-BNcAlmost as soft as mud cake.  DaemonFCMar 22 23:35
MinceRthere's no food that's "too nice not to eat"Mar 22 23:35
DaemonFCwhat is a mud cake?Mar 22 23:35
tessier_Coke eating its way out of the can reminds me of a classic 80's horror movie: 22 23:36
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The Stuff (1985) .::. Size~: 67.96 KBMar 22 23:36
oiaohmOver done chocolate cake almost more chocolate than cake.  DaemonFCMar 22 23:36
cubezzzlet me guess, the stuff? :)Mar 22 23:36
cubezzzI rented that :)Mar 22 23:36
DaemonFCoiaohm: Hmmm, now that might be too good not to eatMar 22 23:36
tessier_Me too. In 1986 or so.Mar 22 23:36
DaemonFCNOM NOM NOM MUDCAKE!!!!!!!!Mar 22 23:36
tessier_Well, my mom did.Mar 22 23:36
cubezzz"Are you eating it or is it eating you?"Mar 22 23:37
DaemonFCoiaohm: My favorite are those mint chocolate cakes, the ones that Andes makesMar 22 23:37
DaemonFCmmmmmmMar 22 23:37
DaemonFCNOM NOM NOM!!!Mar 22 23:37
oiaohm  << ok that is a resonable version Little light on the choclate.  DaemonFCMar 22 23:37
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Exclusively Food: Chocolate Mud Cake Recipe .::. Size~: 186.68 KBMar 22 23:37
oiaohmIts not quite the nice 50/50 number.  Ie 50 percent choclate 50 percent everything else to give it texture like a cake.Mar 22 23:39
cubezzzchocolate seems to have a long shelf lifeMar 22 23:39
oiaohmcoco is insane.Mar 22 23:40
MinceRwhat's the point of being light on chocolate?Mar 22 23:40
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oiaohmDoes not make as big of mess of you as true mud cake does.  MinceRMar 22 23:40
oiaohmIe its called mud cake because after eating it you can look like you have been trying to eat mud.Mar 22 23:41
MinceRthat's what utensils are for. :>Mar 22 23:41
oiaohmEven so. there is that much choclate and due to the cake ingrendents it lower melting bit a pice you are going to get stuff on face.Mar 22 23:42
oiaohmIf you careful with utensils yes you can eat it without ending up a level 10 mess.Mar 22 23:42
oiaohmThere is also some really hot chill power in the store here as well that goes back to when the store was found that no one is game to touch either.Mar 22 23:43
oiaohmEven that it would still be techincally fine.Mar 22 23:43
oiaohmDryed product air tight can store for ages.Mar 22 23:44
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] ♺ @humphreybc: @jonobacon @TheUbuntuManual 284 followers - can we make it to 500 before the final release on the 29th April?Mar 22 23:44
cubezzzhow about stuff like pasta?Mar 22 23:44
DaemonFCheh, my cousin is selling me her carMar 22 23:44
DaemonFCyayMar 22 23:44
DaemonFCnow I can have them haul mine off for the scrap metalMar 22 23:44
cubezzzanyway I usually eat the food I buy within a monthMar 22 23:45
oiaohmpasta comes appart over time and becomes a power.  Ok techically still eatable.Mar 22 23:45
oiaohmThat makes the rest look friendly.Mar 22 23:45
DaemonFCschestowitz: I drink Pepsi stuff anywayMar 22 23:46
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Ubuntu Community Team Opportunities: Second Draft - #ubuntuMar 22 23:46
oiaohmI would take my odd with 150 year old can fruit cake before putting my taste buds need 40 year old pasta cubezzzMar 22 23:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle:                   Ubuntu Community Team Opportunities: Second Draft | jonobacon@home                     .::. Size~: 27.46 KBMar 22 23:46
oiaohmneed/nearMar 22 23:46
oiaohmNow the issue with 150 year old can stuff is not only that it caned it half how in hell to open it.Mar 22 23:47
oiaohmThe can half a inch thick steal.Mar 22 23:47
oiaohmThat is canned goods that were built to last.Mar 22 23:48
oiaohmAnd really don't drop them on foot they are not going to break you foot will.Mar 22 23:48
oiaohmMost of the 150 year old stuff is old stock because newer simpler to open cans turned up.Mar 22 23:49
DaemonFCthe best part about buying a car from family is you can have them put down that they sold it to you for $1Mar 22 23:53
oiaohmGood example of human nature.Mar 22 23:54
DaemonFCyou only pay 7 cents sales taxMar 22 23:54
DaemonFCB-)Mar 22 23:54
oiaohmSome of the old 150 year old cans have the last price tage on them.Mar 22 23:54
oiaohmFree with free dilivery.Mar 22 23:54
oiaohmYet they are still there.Mar 22 23:54
DaemonFCI never declare what I really paid for a carMar 22 23:55
DaemonFCcause they can't prove anything that's not on the bill of saleMar 22 23:55

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