Quick Mention: Miguel de Icaza Loves .NET, Dislikes GNU GPL

Posted in Free/Libre Software, GPL, Microsoft, Mono, Novell, OpenDocument at 8:11 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Steve Ballmer scared of GPLv3

From the Novell VP who says the darnest things:

For a project of mine, this weekend I put together a command-line editing class for .NET shell applications.


It is licensed under the MIT X11 license and the Apache 2.0 license so there are no annoying licensing issues and can be mixed with anything out there.

That’s a suggestion that GPL has “annoying licensing issues.” And what's behind X11 anyway? Is this the former president (until recently) of the GNOME Foundation?

This comes a year after Miguel de Icaza’s ODF insult, to use Richard Stallman’s words:

Your insult is too vague to be checked, or refuted, but the reasons
why this question of standardization is important are very specific.
Governments around the world are interested in using an open standard
format. They have to decide whether to insist on a real open
standard, such as ODF, or accept a sham open standard, OOXML. If they
choose the former, they are likely to move somewhat to OpenOffice.
Otherwise they are likely to be stuck with Microsoft Office.

With ‘friends’ like these, need we have enemies?

Share in other sites/networks: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Reddit
  • email

This post is also available in Gemini over at:


If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

Pages that cross-reference this one


  1. TaQ said,

    August 28, 2008 at 8:17 am


    Hey, give him a chance, his boss (you know, that “Linux is a cancer” guy) told him to say that! :-)

  2. masbani said,

    August 28, 2008 at 10:48 am


    ye gods, are you stupid

  3. Victor Soliz said,

    August 28, 2008 at 7:01 pm


    masbani: I am noticing the quality of Novell’s supporters has been in free fall lately, as if you are tired of pretending you are more than zombie trolls….

  4. Victor Soliz said,

    August 28, 2008 at 7:03 pm


    It is licensed under the MIT X11 license and the Apache 2.0 license so there are no annoying licensing issues and can be mixed with anything out there.

    I remember the times where Novell friendlies would stand behind Icaza and say it is not true he FUDs the GPL, but this time, I doubt anyone can deny, such a brilliant piece of FUD Miguel, it seems he really wanted to learn more from MS.

  5. Jose_X said,

    August 29, 2008 at 10:44 pm


    These licenses (mit, etc) are used when the authors want the material to spread as much as possible as the top priority, eg, for building market/mind share for a protocol or standard, ie, for mono/dotregret.

    Btw, one of those that would be able to “borrow” such source code would be Microsoft. Makes sense that Miguel and others would not mind their work (but more importantly, the work of the many that might help out without costing them money) being used to help strengthen monopolies off which Miguel and friends stand to profit through their ms partnership payoffs (possibly to include stock options since $100 million in stock options (using the black-sholes model of pricing options) could easily translate into billions if msft goes up).

    See also http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/29/mono-applications-windows-vista/

  6. Roy Schestowitz said,

    August 30, 2008 at 3:09 am


    I didn’t add this to the text above (cited it instead and talked about it in IRC), but the licence is possibly designed to permit change of ‘de facto’ ownership or control. Microsoft cannot stand the GNU GPL and, in case it buys Novell, that matters.

  7. AlexH said,

    August 30, 2008 at 4:06 am


    @Roy: totally false.

    All open source licenses are perpetual; when ownership changes, the new owner can change the license on the software but that doesn’t affect existing users.

    I’m not surprised that you don’t understand Miguel’s comment and think it FUD. Probably because you don’t know your history: when it was created, it was put under the GPL for “political” reasons, and was thus inaccessible to both proprietary apps but also non-GPL compatible open source apps (e.g., Apache-licensed apps) and also to those non-copylefted projects who didn’t want to be forced to release under the GPL (good example: http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2000-12/msg01038.php).

    This rubbed some people up the wrong way, not because it was GPL, but because of how overtly the point was made. It’s a historical argument well-known amongst the free software community.

    Miguel is referring to that debate. He may not prefer the GPL, I don’t know his personal view, but his comment is about which licenses you use where in the stack, not whether or not certain licenses are good or bad.

    I’ve stopped expecting you to correct your false stories, but maybe this will help inform you in the future.

  8. Roy Schestowitz said,

    August 30, 2008 at 4:10 am


    All open source licenses are perpetual; when ownership changes, the new owner can change the license on the software but that doesn’t affect existing users.

    Yes, but miss not the point that the GPL ensures there is an obligation to /keep/ it open.

    Microsoft has already ‘closed-sourced’ some BSD code.

  9. AlexH said,

    August 30, 2008 at 4:14 am


    The GPL doesn’t have any such obligation, sorry Roy.

    If you are the copyright owner, you can change the license to a closed license and make all your future releases under that.

    The GPL copyleft works only “against” non-copyright owners. No copyright license can restrict the activity of the rightful copyright owner.

  10. Roy Schestowitz said,

    August 30, 2008 at 4:32 am


    Okay, so you seem to be suggesting that if Microsoft buys Novell, then it can change Mono’s licence and close it regardless.

  11. Dan O'Brian said,

    August 30, 2008 at 6:06 am


    I hate to say it, but “Duh” at Roy’s last comment.

    Iff Microsoft were to buy Novell, everything that Novell has copyright ownership of, they could relicense – regardless of whether it is GPL or not.

    I honestly cannot believe that this is “news” to anyone, it’s so fundamental.

    FWIW, since Mono is LGPL and MIT/X11 licensed – if Microsoft were to buy Novell (or even if they don’t), you could fork Mono and relicense GPLv3 because neither license has any restriction against doing so.

What Else is New

  1. Richard Stallman on How Corporate Media Limits What People Are Allowed to Think and Say

    What the founder of the FSF told yours truly a number of years ago about the behaviour of corporate (funded and controlled by corporations) media

  2. Exposing Hard Truths is the First Step or the Path Towards Justice

    A reflection and a moment taken to set aside tribalism (shallow differences based on allegiances of personal comfort), for we need look back at actual facts — however inconvenient at times — and consider the reality of the situation

  3. IRC Proceedings: Thursday, April 15, 2021

    IRC logs for Thursday, April 15, 2021

  4. [Meme] Laundering Bribes as 'Cooperation Money'

    Germany has financial interest in ensuring that EPO abuses carry on and nobody holds the EPO accountable

  5. Articles in Support of Richard Stallman

    Reproduced with permission

  6. EPOLeaks on Misleading the Bundestag -- Part 20: Taking Stock

    Benoît Battistelli's legacy at the EPO is a legacy of corruption and cover-up; we take stock of how illegality was defended and persists to this day

  7. Links 15/4/2021: Zorin OS 16 Beta and Pushing Linux to GitHub- and Microsoft-Connected Rust

    Links for the day

  8. [Meme] Enemies With Common Interests

    The Software Freedom Movement (or Free Software Movement) has many enemies; some of them just hide in the shadows or speak out through shadowy front groups/NGOs that they semi-officially sponsor

  9. [Meme] Germany's Red Cash Cow

    EPO brings a lot of money to the German state. But at what cost to citizens and Germany’s public image?

  10. EPOLeaks on Misleading the Bundestag -- Part 19: The Deafening Silence of the Media

    "There has been speculation that Maas might have had his own political interest in protecting Battistelli and the Balkan Express because of certain allegations about financial irregularities involving the German Patents and Trademark Office (DPMA) which were doing the rounds at the time."

  11. The Indirection Game

    How to attack institutions and concepts by personifying them, then proceeding to character assassination based on lies and deliberate distortions

  12. Links 15/4/2021: LXQt 0.17, Proxmox Backup Server 1.1

    Links for the day

  13. The Patent Battles in Europe Are Connected to the War on GNU/Linux (as a Community-Led Effort)

    Monoplisers of GNU and Linux want us to think that OIN is the solution while they actively lobby for software patents in Europe and the people in charge of Europe’s second-largest institution and Europe’s largest patent office help them; this long video contains thoughts about news from the past couple of days

  14. Richard Stallman: Freedom is the Goal (Updated)

    What Richard Stallman (RMS) told me in person on his trip here

  15. IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, April 14, 2021

    IRC logs for Wednesday, April 14, 2021

  16. EPOLeaks on Misleading the Bundestag -- Part 18: Zero Tolerance for “Lawless Zones”?

    "It comes as no surprise that Maas appeared as a guest of honour at the European Inventor of the Year Boondoggle in Berlin in 2014 where he was seen on stage clapping along with the EPO President."

  17. Richard Stallman's Honors and Awards (and Why He Resigned in 2019)

    Reproduced with permission

  18. Links 14/4/2021: Alpine Releases and X.Org Server 1.20.11 Release (Security)

    Links for the day

  19. Links 14/4/2021: EasyOS Dunfell 2.7, Tor Browser 10.5a14

    Links for the day

  20. EPOLeaks on Misleading the Bundestag -- Part 17: Jawohl, Herr Minister!

    A French-German co-production of "Yes, Minister!" starring Raimund Lutz, Heiko Maas and Christoph Ernst. Directed by Benoît Battistell.

  21. Over 1,000 EPO Workers Initiate Legal Challenge Against the EPO's Attack on Salaries (in Defiance of Assurances Made to Workers Who Relocate to Another Country With Whole Families)

    The EPO’s attack on workers and pensioners isn’t going ahead without challenge; while the “Mafia” (what EPO workers call the management) loots the organisation it takes away money from the workers — i.e. from besieged folks who do all the work and face growing workloads during a pandemic

  22. Who is Richard Stallman?

    Reproduced with permission

  23. IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, April 13, 2021

    IRC logs for Tuesday, April 13, 2021

  24. Links 13/4/2021: FreeBSD 13.0 Final, Slackware 15.0 GNU/Linux Beta Release and OpenMandriva Lx 4.3 Plans

    Links for the day

  25. IBM Stroking the Masters

    IBM continues to diminish its weakly-supported thesis about the word “Master” being inadequate in all contexts and IBM’s front group, the Linux Foundation, has just promoted more of that same self-serving agenda in the corporate media (screenshot below from 5 minutes ago)

  26. The 'Stallman Support' Web Site and How You Can Support Truth, Not Just Software Freedom

    The Stallman Support Dot Org Web site (stallmansupport.org, "In Support of Richard Stallman“), endorsed by Stallman himself, sets the record straight while the corporate media keeps peddling lies and distortions

  27. An Examination of Correspondence Between the Tweedledum-Tweedledee Duo, Lutz and Ernst

    A quick look at the letters and E-mails sent back and forth from the current VP5 and former VP5 of the EPO, Europe’s second-largest institution that the German government has let exist outside the rule/reach of any law

  28. EPOLeaks on Misleading the Bundestag -- Part 16: An Inimitable Duo

    How the efforts to reform the EPO's data protection framework were derailed by the actions of Lutz and Ernst

  29. How the GNU Operating System Really Started (Almost a Decade Before Linux Came Out)

    Later this year Linux turns 30, but Linux is just a component added to the GNU Operating System, developed a very long time earlier based on the design of UNIX (the mainstream media likes to distort that part of history); here’s the creator of the GNU Operating System, telling me his story here in the United Kingdom (we did many clips like these and this one seems very timely)

  30. Richard Stallman: The Other Things I Have to Say I Put on Stallman.org... Reject the Idea That You Have to Accept Something Like Facebook

    Transcript below

RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

Recent Posts