09.13.08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 12th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 5:15 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

trmanco	I got it from one of your posts on usenet and it wasn’t on this channel that I was thinking on posting the link	Sep 11 22:43
PetoKraus		Sep 11 22:47
schestowitz	It’s an important one nonetheless because it’s about Microsoft disregard for standards. There’s lot of this in the Novell deal (interop versus real standards)	Sep 11 22:47
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schestowitz	http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?… “I’m sure the LSE was a big part of Microsoft’s Get the Facts campaign, and a poster for how reliable their software is. Mind you, it’s not just Microsoft software but the culture that grows around it. I’ve seen some almighty messes made by Accenture, and given how much money that outage cost I’m not surprised no one is commenting.”	Sep 12 07:15
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schestowitz	http://searchenterpriselinux.techtarget.com/news… “George Weiss, the vice president of Stamford, Conn.-based Gartner Inc., said that there is probably “a whole lot more Linux [in use] than people realize” because so much is downloaded for free that is not counted in server shipments.”	Sep 12 07:54
MinceR	whoa, gartner has discovered ‘installed base’	Sep 12 07:55
schestowitz	No.	Sep 12 07:55
schestowitz	It denies it pretty much. And IDC/IDG meanwhile takes money from Microsoft to study ‘Linux use’ (preinstalls from large vendors) announcing that Linux has just 13% of the pie	Sep 12 07:56
schestowitz	Weeks ago: “There’s a lot of Linux out there — much more than Microsoft generally signals publicly — and their customers are using it…” –Paul DeGroot, a Directions On Microsoft analyst.	Sep 12 07:57
schestowitz	Another recent favourite from the Partner Group (Microsoft’s ‘partner’): http://digg.com/linux_unix/GNU_…	Sep 12 07:58
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schestowitz	FWIW, I’ve just put that in Digg: http://digg.com/linux_unix/A_Whole_Lot_M… http://digg.com/linux_unix/There_s_a_l…	Sep 12 08:04
schestowitz	Oops. Typo in that second one.	Sep 12 08:04
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schestowitz	The Microsoft-O-Gara shill is repeating some old speculation from Sam Dean: http://virtualization.sys-con.com/node/651819 (note: VMware is headed by Microsofters now)	Sep 12 08:18
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ZiggyFish	schestowitz: hey I like the video at the end of ‘Links 11/09/2008: Many New Releases, KDE in CERN’	Sep 12 10:09
schestowitz	No Ogg though.	Sep 12 10:09
schestowitz	Maybe I should get back to producing Oggs.	Sep 12 10:10
ZiggyFish	yeah	Sep 12 10:10
schestowitz	It fills up the server.	Sep 12 10:10
ZiggyFish	didn’t know linux could do that	Sep 12 10:10
schestowitz	That’s an old video	Sep 12 10:10
schestowitz	Years ago. Maybe 3 or 4.	Sep 12 10:10
ZiggyFish	anyway shows you the power of Linux.	Sep 12 10:11
schestowitz	It came from an argument I had in USENET	Sep 12 10:11
ZiggyFish	lol	Sep 12 10:11
schestowitz	http://groups.google.com/group/comp… (many trolls here, so be warned)	Sep 12 10:11
ZiggyFish	lol	Sep 12 10:13
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ZiggyFish	http://linuxvoid.com/2008/09/09/… (are these guys computers?)	Sep 12 10:14
ZiggyFish	they sound like robots	Sep 12 10:15
schestowitz	LOL	Sep 12 10:16
schestowitz	Maybe their mother’s tongue is Robotics	Sep 12 10:16
ZiggyFish	lol	Sep 12 10:16
ZiggyFish	don’t you get that impression?	Sep 12 10:16
schestowitz	One sounds more like a robot	Sep 12 10:17
ZiggyFish	why can’t they speak like the guys on Linux Action Show	Sep 12 10:18
schestowitz	It’s a Linux void (of soul). No action./	Sep 12 10:22
ZiggyFish	heh	Sep 12 10:22
schestowitz	Maybe Dorothy will sort them out when they find the Wizard of Oz.	Sep 12 10:23
ZiggyFish	lol	Sep 12 10:23
schestowitz	Anyway, enough laughing at them. They might notice.	Sep 12 10:23
ZiggyFish	didn’t no robots were that smart yet	Sep 12 10:23
ZiggyFish		Sep 12 10:23
schestowitz	They’re overclocked	Sep 12 10:24
ZiggyFish	hehehe	Sep 12 10:24
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schestowitz	How true: “t should be Linux only. That’s how it was all started prior to MS sticking their thumb into the media circle. However, once MS dropped it’s five ton gorilla onto the plate the initiative has all but died. it’s the MS “extend, embrace, extinguish” plan in full action.” http://digg.com/linux_unix/OLPC_s_Amazon_No…	Sep 12 10:32
ZiggyFish	very true	Sep 12 10:33
schestowitz	I just never though of it like this, but anyone whom I know that advocated OLPC got sick of it when Microsoft rubbed it in the media. They also drove away key OLPC people that way.	Sep 12 10:36
schestowitz	Microsoft fumigates anything it enters. ODF… Apache..? Hopefully never.	Sep 12 10:36
ZiggyFish	but what have Microsoft to gain in taking down OLPC.	Sep 12 10:37
schestowitz	A lot. It’s the Slog: http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/… http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/upl…	Sep 12 10:37
schestowitz	ZiggyFish: Microsoft fears low-cost laptops; same with Intel. Price-fixing has been their thing for ages.	Sep 12 10:37
ZiggyFish	true	Sep 12 10:38
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schestowitz	I rely now on the Chinese to make those better chips and not to be corrupted by the Ballmer/Gates axis that has a lot of influence on their totalitarian regime.	Sep 12 10:38
schestowitz	$98 laptops. What will Wintel do?	Sep 12 10:38
ZiggyFish	lol	Sep 12 10:39
schestowitz	They’ve struggled against computers becoming a commodity or a generic ‘drug’ like Aspirin.	Sep 12 10:39
schestowitz	They want the kids on MSD, not Aspirin	Sep 12 10:39
schestowitz	*LSD	Sep 12 10:39
schestowitz	“Although about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, but people don’t pay for the software,” he said. “Someday they will, though. As long as they are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They’ll get sort of addicted, and then we’ll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade.”	Sep 12 10:40
schestowitz	–Bill Gates on how to get people addicted to expensive stuff	Sep 12 10:40
mib_s8rnj5	I have an interesting email sent from Jack Messman to Novell partners complaining and attempting to correct microsoft fud. http://embed.mibbit.com/pb/U4fV4p	Sep 12 10:41
*schestowitz looks		Sep 12 10:41
schestowitz	I can recall a comment in Groklaw about Messman using FUD in 2005	Sep 12 10:41
schestowitz	I see it here: http://www.sdoss.org/events/Presentations/2004/3…	Sep 12 10:43
schestowitz	That’s very interesting, thank you very much!	Sep 12 10:43
ZiggyFish	yeah	Sep 12 10:43
mib_s8rnj5	Welcome. I am sure I have a few more as I worked for a novell partner for 10 years	Sep 12 10:44
schestowitz	Especially after Novell had torn down all its anti-FUD pages from novell.com (just after the deal was signed)	Sep 12 10:44
mib_s8rnj5	Ill post if I find them	Sep 12 10:44
schestowitz	Novell is now USING Microsoft’s FUD to its advantage against other vendors.	Sep 12 10:44
ZiggyFish	sure	Sep 12 10:44
ZiggyFish	lol	Sep 12 10:44
schestowitz	Excellent! Thanks for that.	Sep 12 10:45
schestowitz	Let me try to see if I can find the Messman FUD remark	Sep 12 10:45
schestowitz	Got it! http://boycottnovell.com/2007/10/01/j…	Sep 12 10:46
mib_s8rnj5	Messamn was the most boring man ever.	Sep 12 10:46
schestowitz	I have some interviews of his	Sep 12 10:48
schestowitz	http://www.archive.org/search.php?q…	Sep 12 10:48
ZiggyFish	Oh, Bill, usually wins that title (the most poring man ever), you’ve just upset him, watchout he’ll try to ‘extend, embrace, extinguish’ you	Sep 12 10:49
ZiggyFish	*boring	Sep 12 10:49
schestowitz	There\s the thing about VML	Sep 12 10:49
schestowitz	http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/new…	Sep 12 10:49
schestowitz	With OOXML they try to make it s ‘standard’.	Sep 12 10:49
schestowitz	Very annoying.	Sep 12 10:49
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MinceR	124457 <@schestowitz> I see it here: http://www.sdoss.org/events/Presentations/2…	Sep 12 10:54
MinceR	the domain’s dead :/	Sep 12 10:54
schestowitz	http://64.233.183.104/search?…	Sep 12 10:57
schestowitz	nux+in+their+latest+SEC+filing.+ These,+however,+are+the+true+facts.&amp ;hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1	Sep 12 10:57
schestowitz	http://tinyurl.com/5xddp9	Sep 12 10:57
ZiggyFish	I recon that the Major vendors have an agreement with Microsoft (any computers they sell, Microsoft get’s a percentage of, in exchange for lowered Windows licences cost (can’t find any references to back it up though))	Sep 12 10:58
schestowitz	There was lots in the Iowa trial, e.g. http://boycottnovell.com/200…	Sep 12 10:59
schestowitz	Intel has some similar illegal deas.	Sep 12 10:59
schestowitz	Dell’s investors sued for accepting secret bribes (kickbacks) from Intel. Lenovo is said to have played the same game. It’s all corrupt	Sep 12 10:59
ZiggyFish	reading http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/1… confirms it	Sep 12 11:00
schestowitz	The Acer one is a better example.	Sep 12 11:00
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008…	Sep 12 11:00
ZiggyFish	yeah	Sep 12 11:02
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schestowitz	One site vainly claims to know precisely Microsoft’s hare on desktop: “And others talk of switching allegiance completely, though in reality Microsoft Windows still holds a massive 94.9% share in desktop OS use.” ORLY? http://searchcio-midmarket.tec… Look who is cited as the ‘source’? The media propagates the Big Lies.	Sep 12 12:46
schestowitz	The Microsoft O’Gara shill (see http://boycottnovell.com/2008… ) is doing a series of attacks on VMWare: http://openwebdeveloper.sys-con.com/node… http://symbian.sys-con.com/node/488349	Sep 12 12:51
schestowitz	WTF? She’s still going ballistic. Classic Microsoft slog: http://silverlight.sys-con.com/node/670417 It’s just like in http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/u…	Sep 12 12:53
schestowitz	“Ideally, use of the competing technology becomes associated with mental deficiency, as in, “he believes in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and OS/2.” Just keep rubbing it in, via the press, analysts, newsgroups, whatever. Make the complete failure of the competition’s technology part of the mythology of the computer industry. We want to place selection pressure on those companies and individuals that show a genetic weakness for com	Sep 12 12:53
schestowitz	petitors’ technologies, to make the industry increasingly resistant to such unhealthy strains, over time.”	Sep 12 12:53
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schestowitz	And the O’Gara VMWare FUD then continued: http://cloudcomputing.sys-con.com/node/454273	Sep 12 13:01
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trmanco	http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/Canoni…	Sep 12 13:27
schestowitz	It’s being hyped up in the media like it’s the second coming, as opposed to a blog post. There are already thousands of contributors.	Sep 12 13:28
schestowitz	What’s with this picture? http://www.businessweek.com/magazin…	Sep 12 13:54
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PetoKraus	so is chrome opensource?	Sep 12 15:23
schestowitz	Yes.	Sep 12 15:24
PetoKraus	where’s the code?	Sep 12 15:24
schestowitz	http://code.google.com/chromium/	Sep 12 15:24
schestowitz	The Apple and GNU/Linux versions are very much behind, so while Wine can now run it decently, don’t expect native versions any time soon.	Sep 12 15:25
PetoKraus	i say	Sep 12 15:27
PetoKraus	fuck google	Sep 12 15:27
PetoKraus	also	Sep 12 15:27
schestowitz	Check out the comments here (mind also): http://radar.oreilly.com/2008/05/goo…	Sep 12 15:29
PetoKraus	is chromium REALLY the same thing as chrome?	Sep 12 15:29
schestowitz	It pissed me off a lot more because they actually /ruined/ the Web.	Sep 12 15:30
schestowitz	Also see: http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blo…	Sep 12 15:30
PetoKraus	ruined?	Sep 12 15:30
schestowitz	Well, you come and visir a Google page and they tell you “go away, GNU/Linux users. Go and buy Windows, then come back.”	Sep 12 15:31
PetoKraus	gosh	Sep 12 15:32
PetoKraus	crappy.	Sep 12 15:32
PetoKraus	i don’t trust cloud computer for one thing	Sep 12 15:33
PetoKraus	the board of any company, eg google, can be changed	Sep 12 15:33
PetoKraus	and the new board forces the devs to switch one boolean variable	Sep 12 15:33
PetoKraus	and boom, cloud works only under certain os.	Sep 12 15:33
schestowitz	Yes, I know.	Sep 12 15:34
schestowitz	I’ll write some more about insiders later. Microsoft is spreading its goons all over the place	Sep 12 15:34
schestowitz	(Google included, told me one professor)	Sep 12 15:34
schestowitz	Do you know of high-level people in Google who arrives from Microsoft?	Sep 12 15:34
schestowitz	*arrived	Sep 12 15:34
PetoKraus	no, not really, but i guess i can imagine	Sep 12 15:34
schestowitz	Hmmmmm…. http://governor.state.tx.us/news/press-release/11122/ … I wonder how wtitter is doing under their storm in the east.	Sep 12 15:36
schestowitz	…Petty to complain about some rainy weather unless it floods. There are worse climatic issues out there.	Sep 12 15:38
schestowitz	Good news if true: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/200… “But the spec also mentions 1GB of RAM, a 40GB hard drive, “Ubunto Linux” (sic), dimensions extending to 30 x 30 x 17cm and a weight of 1.2kg, all of which are rather large for an MID.”	Sep 12 15:42
MinceR	it’s dell, therefore it includes the hidden microsoft tax, doesn’t it?	Sep 12 15:46
schestowitz	Yes.	Sep 12 15:46
schestowitz	The problem is that many of these vendors are not being ‘infected’. To tell you the truth, I am very pissed off about Novell at the moment (usually I’m more clam). Microsoft is slogging some companies (this time VMware, not just Red Hat) and Novell is /helping/ it. It’s like an abusive dunce.	Sep 12 15:47
schestowitz	not->now	Sep 12 15:47
schestowitz	clam->calm. Microsoft is still losing but to whom? To Novell? No, it ‘bribed’ Novell to keep it alive (kind of like SCO) in order to have its competition change sides (remember the Caldera trial that was settled secretly?)	Sep 12 15:49
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schestowitz	From http://beranger.org/index.php?p… “boycottmandriva.com might soon have a market value!” OH NO. Don’t ruin Mandriva, Radu.	Sep 12 15:53
schestowitz	Mandriva is based in Europe (and South America). They ought to complain about Microsoft… and not just in an open letter over the bribery, e.g. in Nigeria. It’s down to bureaucracy, but they are all being surrounded by undercover shills like Zuck and his pressure-group-for-Microsoft-du-jour, which impacts corruptible politicians.	Sep 12 15:59
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schestowitz	Linux.com: promoting Free (as in humour) software, as usual: http://www.linux.com/feed/147613	Sep 12 16:28
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tessier_	schestowitz: What do you think of Nexenta? Open-solaris based distro with GNU userland.	Sep 12 18:03
schestowitz	I’ve not tried OpenSolaris before. CDDL…	Sep 12 18:05
tessier_	You haven’t tried it because it is CDDL?	Sep 12 18:07
MinceR	slowlaris.	Sep 12 18:08
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schestowitz	tessier: it seems like something useful if you need Sun-only features like ZFS. I don’t know how much software it runs well (don’t know != runs badly).	Sep 12 18:12
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_Doug	????????????????????????????????????????????	Sep 12 18:29
schestowitz	Hey, Dug.	Sep 12 18:30
schestowitz	*Doug	Sep 12 18:30
_Doug	see the latest Gates/Seinfeld advert ?	Sep 12 18:30
_Doug	http://www.macrumors.com/2008/09…	Sep 12 18:31
schestowitz	Do you know who showed PJ the “O’Gara sabotages OSDL E-mail”?	Sep 12 18:31
_Doug	?	Sep 12 18:31
schestowitz	I don’t care for Microsoft adverts. It’s free advertising to mention them.	Sep 12 18:31
_Doug	PM ..	Sep 12 18:31
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_Doug	What’s extraordenary is they have a strategy in place to attack the OSDL, before its even set up, talk about knifing the fetus :O	Sep 12 18:48
_Doug	Then attack OSDL ffor what it is doing and put a negative spin on it .. eh	Sep 12 18:49
_Doug	“Linux and Open Source are supposed to be all about “free” technology and no one group having competitive advantage. This new alliance seems to go against these principles.”	Sep 12 18:49
schestowitz	That’s the routine.	Sep 12 18:49
schestowitz	I’m going to write about it.	Sep 12 18:50
schestowitz	MOG is attacking VMware now.	Sep 12 18:50
_Doug	So it’s either fragmentation or it’s against the principles of Open Source ,can’t win ..	Sep 12 18:50
_Doug	Got a link to MOG ?	Sep 12 18:50
_Doug	“Old UNIX guard attempting to hijack Linux to go after Sun”	Sep 12 18:51
schestowitz	Ah, that’s a classic	Sep 12 18:53
schestowitz	MOG has begun promoting Novell and slamming Red Hat… wonder why…	Sep 12 18:53
schestowitz	And her ‘publication’ claims that Microsoft might buy Novell.	Sep 12 18:53
schestowitz	Must be something they send her from Redmond.	Sep 12 18:54
_Doug		Sep 12 18:55
_Doug	MS don’t want to buy Novell, at least not just yet. They are more usefull as being an independent ‘open source’ company.	Sep 12 18:56
_Doug	The most obvious impact of the coveneant was to kill any Novell ambitions on the desktop ..	Sep 12 18:56
_Doug	All for the exchange of some vouchers and loose change out of Redmond ..	Sep 12 18:57
MinceR	their loss, i don’t miss suse on the desktop. :>	Sep 12 19:01
schestowitz	I’m typing it right now.	Sep 12 19:02
_Doug	MS don’t want to buy Novell as they also risk getting call a monopoly, again. It’s best to keep at least the one ‘opne source’ company on life support. If I was an OEM or a media company, I would snap up Novell right now ..	Sep 12 19:07
_Doug	NovDell should sell a high end multimedia device and make their money back on subscriptions, movies, games etc .. it’s a license to print money …	Sep 12 19:09
_Doug	A £60 cheep box made in China, would fly off the shelves ..	Sep 12 19:09
MinceR	i think they’ll just kill novell once they don’t find it useful any more.	Sep 12 19:13
MinceR	(that seems to be close to what happened to sco…)	Sep 12 19:14
_Doug	SCO is like a vampire, keeps rising from the dead ..	Sep 12 19:15
_Doug	Canonical to improve usability of the Linux desktop ..	Sep 12 19:21
_Doug	http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/2008…	Sep 12 19:21
_Doug	ot: virtual racism ..	Sep 12 19:24
_Doug	http://arstechnica.com/news…	Sep 12 19:24
_Doug	gtg .. bye …	Sep 12 19:24
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cj	schestowitz: I thought you might want to read this:	Sep 12 20:28
cj	http://tirania.org/blog/archiv…	Sep 12 20:28
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MinceR	http://sackheads.org/~bnaylor/spew…	Sep 12 21:17
schestowitz	Oh noes! http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html	Sep 12 22:18
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cj	schestowitz: that Canonical link looks like something my wife would be able to help with!	Sep 12 22:56
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cj	schestowitz: lol @ webcams	Sep 12 23:17
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