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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 16th, 2009 - Part 1



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schestowitzSutor.. Moody....Mar 16 00:00
Balrog_that you're stuck in school and won't finish anytime soonMar 16 00:00
balzacBut when the time is appropriate, there they areMar 16 00:00
Balrog_something like thatMar 16 00:00
schestowitzRarely will you see them adding the title/sMar 16 00:00
schestowitzIt takes more to be humble than it is not to be.Mar 16 00:00
schestowitzBalrog: trols say I chopped off my penis tooMar 16 00:00
schestowitzDoes it mean you should believe them?Mar 16 00:00
Balrog_no, I don'tMar 16 00:01
Balrog_you can't always (easily) identify trolls thoughMar 16 00:01
schestowitzThere's something paradoxical here.Mar 16 00:01
schestowitzYou say "the trolls say X"Mar 16 00:01
schestowitzSo you do acknowledge they are trolls, some of whom on Microsoft's payrollMar 16 00:02
schestowitzAnd then you put forth their libellous statementsMar 16 00:02
Balrog_because I already heard the truthMar 16 00:02
schestowitzThey have enough new lies they can make upMar 16 00:02
schestowitzIt's not as though they'll run outMar 16 00:02
schestowitz"She's just a paralegal"Mar 16 00:03
schestowitz"He has a long beard"Mar 16 00:03
*balzac sips courvoisierMar 16 00:03
schestowitz"He inhaled"Mar 16 00:03
schestowitzetc etcMar 16 00:03
Balrog_once you discredit the trolls on several points, you have totally discredited themMar 16 00:04
balzacBalrog_: there's a whole industry based in yellow-journalismMar 16 00:05
balzacyou've fully discredited them among the legitimate publications, but the yellow journalism industry keeps chugging along, with Rupert Murdoch at the helm.Mar 16 00:05
Balrog_heh yeah.Mar 16 00:06
balzacAnd Murdoch keeps aquiring trusted brands and corrupting themMar 16 00:06
Balrog_he ruined myspaceMar 16 00:06
Balrog_few of my friends use it anymoreMar 16 00:06
balzacso people keep getting fooled by yellow journalists who shouldn't be published by any self-respecting publication.Mar 16 00:06
balzacThe most important thing to do is to aim high, at the ones who give cover to their character-assassin foot-soldiersMar 16 00:07
MinceRgnMar 16 00:07
balzacLike the cartoonist from the NY Post - sure, go after the cartoonist, but focus mainly on the editor, and the owner(s)Mar 16 00:07
balzaccya MinceRMar 16 00:08
balzacYou've got to drive down the trust in the brand which is lending legitimacy to the yellow journalistMar 16 00:08
balzacMurdoch buys Wall St Journal - now it's toilet paper.Mar 16 00:08
balzacSupposing Murdoch bought NY Times, it's toilet paper. Or blankets for the homeless, no longer fit for reading. (Not that it's worthwhile as it is)Mar 16 00:09
balzacThat's the appropriate kind of retaliation for yellow journalists.Mar 16 00:10
balzacRoy hits IDG and others quite often. That's the name of the game.Mar 16 00:10
schestowitzMs fanboy Stuart J. Johnston  writes: Microsoft Still Has Eyes for Yahoo < http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/... > Mar 16 00:10
schestowitzBalrog: IDG is just a shell owned by IDCMar 16 00:11
schestowitzthe International Disinformation GroupMar 16 00:11
schestowitz'Microsoft's' Gavin Clarke is now promoting Microsoft dumpage:  http://www.channelregister.co... The Microsoft-Register deal poisoned a once-good publicationMar 16 00:13
schestowitzEven Ashlee Vance, who covered Linux there, ran awayMar 16 00:13
schestowitzLucy Sharrif tooMar 16 00:13
schestowitzShe hardly writes there now, if at all.Mar 16 00:13
schestowitzThe MS-dominated Register scared away the truth speakers.Mar 16 00:13
schestowitzEEEEMar 16 00:14
schestowitzEmbrace publicationMar 16 00:14
schestowitzChange some people up at the top (extend)Mar 16 00:14
schestowitzHave editors annoy Linus writers until they leave to ExtinguishMar 16 00:14
schestowitzLike an Anaconda.Mar 16 00:14
schestowitzBillG is handing out free 'drug' at Dalton State: http://www.northwestgeorgia.com/local...Mar 16 00:16
schestowitz"First one's freeeee.."Mar 16 00:16
balzacOh jeezMar 16 00:18
balzacto think I once used MS wordMar 16 00:18
balzacI even downloaded some training videos on it, which I never watchedMar 16 00:18
balzacI can't stand that programMar 16 00:18
_Hicham_word is sluggishMar 16 00:19
balzacMS software is so bloated with features for obstructing users, it's going to be much more sluggishMar 16 00:20
balzacSoftware which serves another master, always checking to see if you're permitted to do this or that, maintaining interoperability with arcane specifications designed to break standards, obfuscate simple things.Mar 16 00:21
balzacMicrosoft Windows never serves the person, even when they hold the administrative credentials - the root account lies in Redmond. No windows user can claim to be their own administrator.Mar 16 00:23
balzacExcept for Gates, king of his horrible software castle, made from the dried tears and broken dreams of Microsoft users.Mar 16 00:24
balzacRoy, I think you might consider pull-quoting some of this for BN.Mar 16 00:24
balzacPut a little sauce on top of the the informative content.Mar 16 00:25
schestowitzbalzac: it's already being posted anywayMar 16 00:25
schestowitzThe thing is, about Office...Mar 16 00:25
balzacI know :)Mar 16 00:25
schestowitzMicrosoft MUST show you pay for SOMETHINGMar 16 00:25
schestowitzSo they bloat it upMar 16 00:25
schestowitzHow else can they make a business proposition for $500 per seatMar 16 00:26
schestowitz"innovation" ... blah... "many features"Mar 16 00:26
schestowitz[many... errr.   bloat]Mar 16 00:26
schestowitzOffice 12 is a pig... 14 even worseMar 16 00:26
schestowitzYou can stuff up a fat pig... until it had a heart disease.Mar 16 00:27
balzacMicrosoft treats their users like cattle - they dump various kinds of filler into the feed, soy pulp, corn mash, ground bone, sawdust, egg-shells, entrails and brains...Mar 16 00:28
balzacanything, just meet that quota for volumeMar 16 00:29
balzacproprietary software in generalMar 16 00:29
balzaccompare the size of photoshop vs gimpMar 16 00:29
balzac3dsmax vs blenderMar 16 00:29
balzacms word vs abi wordMar 16 00:29
balzacproprietary software vendors want you to think the hundreds of megs of useless data are worth the hundreds of dollarsMar 16 00:30
schestowitzThey have to keep programmers busy and users 'upgrading' (buying)Mar 16 00:34
schestowitzIt's the planned obsolescence theoryMar 16 00:34
balzacyepMar 16 00:34
schestowitzSimilar theory regarding eBayMar 16 00:34
schestowitzYou can't have them sit aroundMar 16 00:34
balzacso they break things to force the necessity to upgradeMar 16 00:34
schestowitzGive them something potentially useless to doMar 16 00:34
schestowitzPile up the megsMar 16 00:34
schestowitzFill up the menusMar 16 00:35
schestowitzNever mind if this gets buggy and more confusing.Mar 16 00:35
schestowitzBalrog: "things" = formatsMar 16 00:35
balzacthat's what you get from people who suffer cognitive dissonanceMar 16 00:35
schestowitzTry opening a PS 6 file in PS 4Mar 16 00:35
schestowitzOr Office 2007 in Word 6Mar 16 00:35
balzacbecause they're unwilling to face the fact that they've become cognitive castratiMar 16 00:35
schestowitzThey think  they'll pay onceMar 16 00:36
balzacsubjugated to the egos of their executive class, lacking freedom of thoughtMar 16 00:36
Balrog_PS ?Mar 16 00:36
schestowitz"I can afford it," said ignorasmusMar 16 00:36
Balrog_you mean photoshop?Mar 16 00:36
schestowitzWord version x, Word version x+1, Word version x+2Mar 16 00:36
schestowitzBalrog: yesMar 16 00:36
balzacyepMar 16 00:36
Balrog_Compatibility has been ok with Photoshop in recent versionsMar 16 00:36
Balrog_PS 6 and PS 4 are 90's eraMar 16 00:36
schestowitzBalrog: I haven'vhckedMar 16 00:36
Balrog_really going backMar 16 00:36
schestowitzI mess with it as a teengerMar 16 00:37
schestowitzTrial versions on CDsMar 16 00:37
schestowitzTrying to get people locked in and 'addicted;'Mar 16 00:37
schestowitzAdobe does that tooMar 16 00:37
schestowitzEven in schoolsMar 16 00:37
schestowitzDumping addictionwareMar 16 00:37
Balrog_I see. I have friends who are graphics designers, and they give me stuffMar 16 00:37
schestowitz"Software  molestation"Mar 16 00:37
Balrog_(that they don't use anymore)Mar 16 00:37
Balrog_PS has many features that they rely oneMar 16 00:38
Balrog_on *Mar 16 00:38
Balrog_like the adjustment layersMar 16 00:38
schestowitzEric Lai : "Two ways to buy Microsoft Office 2007 for under $50"Mar 16 00:39
schestowitzThese are some of the IDG Microsoft boostersMar 16 00:39
schestowitzIDC pays their wage, from the money they earn from Microsoft and the MS ads in its sitesMar 16 00:39
schestowitzSJVN is an odd one in the packMar 16 00:39
schestowitzOne lone Linux advocate (a 'pragmatist' sadly) among many shillsMar 16 00:40
schestowitzEnderle shill still accuses Linux of 'stealing' from SCO: "TomTom 2: FOSS Copying SCO and Microsoft While Proving Steve Jobs ..."Mar 16 00:41
schestowitzWhat does it take from a shill to do before he gets locked up or something?Mar 16 00:41
schestowitzThere is one thing which is lyingMar 16 00:41
schestowitzAnother is slander for moneyMar 16 00:41
schestowitzNew York Times, United States: "Microsoft, with headquarters in Redmond, Wash., is one of several companies in the state laying off thousands of employees."Mar 16 00:42
balzacEnderle, what a sad fellowMar 16 00:42
schestowitzIt's more like tens of thousands.Mar 16 00:43
schestowitzMicrosoft 'hides' the temps, contracts, etc.Mar 16 00:43
schestowitzbalzac: he's well 'fed' by the Wintel pressMar 16 00:43
schestowitzThat's how it worksMar 16 00:43
schestowitzHave lackeys like Rory from the BBC give them air timeMar 16 00:43
balzacstill, he clings to the crap from SCO, like a beetle, clinging to a piece of dung.Mar 16 00:43
schestowitzRory et al have lunch with MicrosoftMar 16 00:43
schestowitzEnderle gets paid by themMar 16 00:43
schestowitzMirosoft brings (weds)  shillnalysts and lackeys reports whom it camandeersMar 16 00:44
balzacpoor, poor EnderleMar 16 00:44
schestowitzThe guy who mailed me earlier has MI5 connectionsMar 16 00:44
schestowitzIt's funny that the Microsoft cult and those around it are getting so much attentionMar 16 00:44
balzachanging from the teat of the old sow.Mar 16 00:44
schestowitzPerhaps the UK too realises the dangers of US corporate power corrupting and colonialising other countries.Mar 16 00:45
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schestowitzWho's Going To Buy Palm? < http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/... >Mar 16 00:49
balzacwho cares?Mar 16 00:49
schestowitzSome source asked abotu MicroisofMar 16 00:49
balzacI hope they doMar 16 00:49
schestowitzWhich would not make sense in this case. bad marriageMar 16 00:49
balzacAny marraige which includes Microsoft is a bad marraige.Mar 16 00:50
schestowitz Don Reisinger -- what a trollMar 16 00:50
balzacI'm looking forward to buying a G1Mar 16 00:50
schestowitzNever mind his latest trollticleMar 16 00:50
balzacI think I'll wait two more weeksMar 16 00:50
schestowitzThe guy is a trolling motorMar 16 00:50
balzactrollticle  hehehMar 16 00:50
balzacshillnalystsMar 16 00:50
balzacit's nice to contract words in order to get the point across succintlyMar 16 00:51
balzaclike repugnicans or repiglicansMar 16 00:51
balzacI'm enjoying XFCE so farMar 16 00:52
schestowitzIt's good. I used it many years ago.Mar 16 00:55
schestowitzOh! and I _loved_ Englisghtnment.Mar 16 00:55
schestowitzIt stopped when I adopted SUSE in 2003Mar 16 00:55
Balrog_schestowitz: when did you quit using suse?Mar 16 00:56
schestowitzWhy is this < http://www.makelinux.net/kerne... > making the news all of a sudden, even in Slashdot? It's very old.Mar 16 00:56
schestowitzBalrog: 2007ishMar 16 00:56
balzacI can't get those strippers out of my mindMar 16 01:10
balzacand I don't want toMar 16 01:10
balzacA good stripper or two can really warm a the cockles.Mar 16 01:11
balzac-aMar 16 01:11
schestowitz->>#boycottnovell-socialMar 16 01:13
schestowitzjoin #boycottnovell-socialMar 16 01:13
balzacsorryMar 16 01:14
*schestowitz sets up a channel for other topcisMar 16 01:18
schestowitzcome and joinMar 16 01:18
schestowitzlessign can be boring sometimes... :-( http://www.youtube.com/watc...Mar 16 01:19
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twitterWho's going to buy Palm?  Ha!  Who's going to buy M$FT?Mar 16 02:50
twitterM$ does not have long term credibility.  No one wants a stock in their portfolio from a company that won't last 20 years.Mar 16 02:51
twitterIs there anyone who thinks M$ will be here 20 years from now?  5 years?  Not me.Mar 16 02:51
twitterI know Google will be here five years from now, and it's a good bet for growth.Mar 16 02:52
twitter20 years from now, Google will be around and the stock will have grown better than inflation as the company grows.  That's the kind of thing people want when they retire.Mar 16 02:53
twittertrolls, they just get new nyms.  http://slashdot.org/~twit...Mar 16 02:55
twitterLOL -> Microsoft Word is the word processing software that PC Magazine called “one of the strongest and most intelligent programs ever written.”Mar 16 02:56
twitterYou don't want to know what the users say about it.Mar 16 02:56
twitter"Change=confusion and for technical reasons changing domain is parctically impossible"Mar 16 02:59
twitterNot necessarily.  Division by topic is good.  You can set up a new site for new topics.  By the magic of the web, there's no practical difference in linking.  When Novell goes under for good, you can archive BN and link to it as you see fit from whatever your new interests and site is.Mar 16 02:59
twitterOf course, when M$ and Novell are gone there will be less trouble to write about.Mar 16 03:00
twitterM$ Impersonator?  Like a reverse Barkto?  It would serve M$ right but I don't think that kind of info war is productive.Mar 16 03:01
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zer0c00lIndian prime minister office moves to gnu/linux based email solution http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@list...Mar 16 04:20
zer0c00llost lot of mails because of M$ exchangeMar 16 04:20
zer0c00lhere is the online link http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India...Mar 16 04:40
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twitterpower outages bring me down.Mar 16 04:58
twitterEntergy sucks.Mar 16 04:58
zer0c00ltwitter: did u read http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/P...Mar 16 04:58
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twitterthanks zer0, that one has a happy ending.Mar 16 05:15
twitterboot to Outlook in favor of a normal email system.Mar 16 05:16
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schestowitzHeyMar 16 08:15
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schestowitzzer0c00l: see http://www.siliconindia.com/showne... and http://www.livemint.com/2009/03/132205...Mar 16 08:17
*zer0c00l looksMar 16 08:17
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zer0c00lbad , they are not even leaving small companiesMar 16 08:20
zer0c00lbizspark,dreamspark and lot of sparks to set fire on innovation and competitorsMar 16 08:22
zer0c00lschestowitz: are you going to write on these things?if so this would be the suitable title "Microsoft targets to kill young talents and education in india"Mar 16 08:25
zer0c00ltoo bad now their eye is on indiaMar 16 08:26
schestowitzYes, I'll write about the topicMar 16 08:28
zer0c00lschestowitz:http://www.lkadvani.in/eng/content... read from the last 4th pointMar 16 08:29
zer0c00lhe is the major opposition leaderMar 16 08:30
zer0c00li dont like that leader personallyMar 16 08:30
schestowitzI've just been told that "Major Indian political parties support open source and open standards"Mar 16 08:31
zer0c00lyeahMar 16 08:32
zer0c00l:-)Mar 16 08:32
zer0c00lyou should have read http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/In...Mar 16 08:32
schestowitzOddly, enough, someone from Red Hat mailed me thisMar 16 08:32
schestowitzI don't speak to Red Hat people.Mar 16 08:32
zer0c00l:-)Mar 16 08:33
zer0c00lwhy so?Mar 16 08:33
schestowitzNo ideaMar 16 08:33
zer0c00l:-)Mar 16 08:33
*zer0c00l smiles Mar 16 08:33
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MinceRr4wrMar 16 09:15
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oiaohmToday I hate MS with a defined hell.Mar 16 10:39
oiaohmHad to hotfix a firewire problem in XP SP3.Mar 16 10:39
oiaohmNot only do you have to give MS an email address to download the hotfix.  As well the downloaded file required a password so it extracts.Mar 16 10:40
oiaohmLot of messing about.Mar 16 10:40
MinceRmessing is what they doMar 16 10:40
oiaohmThinking its a defect in SP3 that causes the problem in the first place that you can download without the crap.Mar 16 10:41
oiaohmToday I don't care who wins.  Linux Reactos... Basically anyone bar MS.Mar 16 10:42
schestowitzoiaohm: I have many MS posts to do todayMar 16 10:42
schestowitzCheck out BN for details. I have 4 more posts, maybe 5Mar 16 10:43
schestowitzThe criminal feels cornered, so it misbehavesMar 16 10:43
oiaohmGets better I found out where MS is road testing there .net OS.Mar 16 10:43
MinceRwhere?Mar 16 10:44
oiaohmhttp://www.windowsfordevices....  << In of all the warped places watches.Mar 16 10:45
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MinceRpftMar 16 10:45
zer0c00lg2gMar 16 10:47
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schestowitzoiaohm: Microsoft also tested Singularity and WinFS... and SPOT watch...Mar 16 10:57
oiaohmSpot design and Singularity design layout is very releated.Mar 16 10:58
oiaohmLet have programmers forget about native code and code everything in .netMar 16 11:05
schestowitzMicrosoft is dead-end in WinfdowsMar 16 11:07
schestowitzAnd Windows Mobile tooMar 16 11:07
schestowitzSo it branches into separate paths (Danger, Singularity, etc)Mar 16 11:08
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oiaohmhttp://news.netcraft.com/archives...Mar 16 11:13
oiaohmGetting interesting.  MS is increasing it domian numbers by adding it own.Mar 16 11:13
oiaohmNow qq.com is doing the same and could over take MS by end of year.Mar 16 11:14
schestowitzI see...Mar 16 11:21
schestowitzMore pollution of information *and* more gaming of NetcraftMar 16 11:21
oiaohmqq.com will not tell anyone what there webservers are based on.Mar 16 11:22
oiaohmSo effectively they are building a bigger and bigger void of what the.Mar 16 11:22
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oiaohmReally the qq.com case is a example how much one party can screw up numbers.Mar 16 12:59
schestowitzRemember GoDaddy?Mar 16 13:01
oiaohmGoDaddy was not out to completely destroy the numbers.Mar 16 13:01
oiaohmThey still showed what they were using.Mar 16 13:01
schestowitzWell,, China is the next overloadMar 16 13:02
oiaohmChina using windows servers in that large of numbers I think not.Mar 16 13:03
oiaohmBSD Linux Solarias....  We have no clue at what is hidding in qq.com numbers.Mar 16 13:03
schestowitzIf it's Windows, then it's like counterfeitedMar 16 13:25
oiaohmAlso not off the cards.Mar 16 13:27
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EruaranhelloMar 16 13:50
oiaohmHi EruaranMar 16 13:52
EruaranhiMar 16 13:52
schestowitzHi Eruaran Mar 16 13:52
schestowitzzer0c00l: I'm working on the India articleMar 16 13:53
Eruaranhowde\hMar 16 13:53
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zer0c00lschestowitz:okMar 16 14:12
zer0c00l:-)Mar 16 14:12
zer0c00llot of posts today :-)Mar 16 14:13
zer0c00lIt should be a busy day for you :-)Mar 16 14:13
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schestowitzNvidia Spent $43.6 Million to Replace Faulty Graphic Chips < http://www.pcworld.com/article... >Mar 16 14:35
schestowitzMicrosoft's very latest "open source" invasions: http://boycottnovell.com/2009...Mar 16 14:36
schestowitzThe Obama cabinet already drowns in some embarrassment: http://www.pcworld.com/article/161266/fed...Mar 16 14:38
zer0c00lbn?Mar 16 14:42
schestowitzYesMar 16 14:43
schestowitz<zer0c00l> got your mail :-) great postMar 16 14:43
schestowitz<zer0c00l> schestowitz: hydrabad is in andrapradeshMar 16 14:43
schestowitz<zer0c00l> that thing needs to be changedMar 16 14:43
schestowitz<schestowitz> in #bnMar 16 14:43
schestowitz<zer0c00l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...Mar 16 14:43
schestowitzI'll post it laterMar 16 14:43
schestowitzToo many posts make an overload for readersMar 16 14:44
zer0c00lkMar 16 14:44
schestowitzI made 10 this morningMar 16 14:44
zer0c00lyeahMar 16 14:44
schestowitzI haven't checked spelling and all.Mar 16 14:44
zer0c00lwill proof read and correct any spelling /logical errorsMar 16 14:44
schestowitzbrb (busy)Mar 16 14:44
zer0c00land send u by mailMar 16 14:44
zer0c00lokMar 16 14:44
schestowitzOK, not in-line though. Corrections separate from originalMar 16 14:45
schestowitzThanks a lot!Mar 16 14:45
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_Hicham_Hi allMar 16 14:59
schestowitzHeyMar 16 15:01
schestowitzIt's hot here today.Mar 16 15:01
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_Hicham_Roy : really?Mar 16 15:13
_Hicham_in the UK?Mar 16 15:13
_Hicham_greatMar 16 15:13
_Hicham_i m gonna come there thenMar 16 15:13
_Hicham_:DMar 16 15:13
*zer0c00l has proof readed the mailMar 16 15:16
*zer0c00l worries about his bad english and writing styleMar 16 15:17
zer0c00l:PMar 16 15:17
schestowitzI see you use bold fontsMar 16 15:17
schestowitzThanks.Mar 16 15:17
zer0c00l:(Mar 16 15:19
zer0c00l:PMar 16 15:19
*schestowitz mends draftMar 16 15:19
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schestowitzOK done, but I'll need to brush it up later.Mar 16 15:25
schestowitzBTW zer0c00l, #boycottnovell-social is now registered as well (for less on-topic things)Mar 16 15:26
_Hicham_Roy : I screwed up my ubuntu installation yesterdayMar 16 15:26
schestowitzDo you need to buy it again?Mar 16 15:26
_Hicham_Roy : buy what?Mar 16 15:27
zer0c00l_Hicham_ : try debianMar 16 15:28
zer0c00l:-)Mar 16 15:28
schestowitzUbuntu. Can you not restore the old state? Define "screwed up"Mar 16 15:28
_Hicham_In fact, i tried a crazy thing : upgrade from Ubuntu to Debian SidMar 16 15:29
_Hicham_finshed with unusable systemMar 16 15:29
_Hicham_i had to reformatMar 16 15:29
_Hicham_now im running debian lennyMar 16 15:29
_Hicham_it has faster bootupMar 16 15:30
_Hicham_that is what i remarkedMar 16 15:30
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schestowitz"... upgrade from Ubuntu to Debian Sid ..."Mar 16 15:30
schestowitzWha??Mar 16 15:30
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_Hicham_yesMar 16 15:31
_Hicham_that was i was trying to doMar 16 15:31
_Hicham_crazyMar 16 15:31
schestowitzSo you proper screwed it. It didn't screw itself up.Mar 16 15:32
schestowitzThese are not very binary compatibleMar 16 15:33
schestowitzMaybe you could do CentOS and Red Hat, but they are merely identical, like... Omega and Fedora... or Mint and Ubuntu even.Mar 16 15:33
_Hicham_Ubuntu modified a lot of things from DebianMar 16 15:34
schestowitzWhat a good idea: Give a presentation? Use a LiveCD! < http://maratux.blogspot.com/200... >Mar 16 15:34
schestowitzSouth America sees the light: Ecuador's Internal Revenue Service Leverages Red Hat Solutions < http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.s... News/2223073/ >Mar 16 15:36
schestowitzThe seven best Linux Foundation contest videos < http://blogs.computerworld.com/the_sev... > Mar 16 15:37
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schestowitzThis one makes Linux look ugly: http://video.linux-foundation...Mar 16 15:46
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Eruarandarn dialup speedMar 16 15:51
EruaranI'm over my data limitMar 16 15:51
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Omar87Hey all!Mar 16 15:57
schestowitz<Hi.Mar 16 15:58
Omar87schestowitz: This seems like a hot week for you! Lot's of stuff to talk about, lots of ideas, lots articles, eh? :)Mar 16 15:59
schestowitzYes, I post a video nowMar 16 15:59
Omar87GreatMar 16 15:59
schestowitzPosted. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/...Mar 16 16:10
schestowitzNto so funny how they totally disregard non-kernel devsMar 16 16:10
schestowitzI'd like to see a submission to this contest that sticks RMS up to the LFMar 16 16:10
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tessier_LF?Mar 16 16:29
zer0c00lLinux foundation ?Mar 16 16:30
Balroganyone here?Mar 16 16:34
Balrogcan you comment on this?Mar 16 16:34
BalrogStallman's major contribution to the domain is the Marxist economicMar 16 16:34
Balrogmodel behind GPL, which works for small stuff and small pockets of theMar 16 16:34
Balrogreal world like the Linux user base, but cannot work in a whole realMar 16 16:34
Balrogworld where real people need to have day jobs that pay their mortgagesMar 16 16:34
Balrogand grocery bills, and where real businesses are willing to pay realMar 16 16:34
Balrogmoney for products that meet their needs.Mar 16 16:34
Balrog<< quoteMar 16 16:34
Balrog(tessier or zer0c00l or schestowitz or anyone)Mar 16 16:36
_Hicham_Balrog : Open Source Model is not fixedMar 16 16:36
schestowitzThis assumes that people are paid only for developmentMar 16 16:37
schestowitzWhich they can be, even for GPL codeMar 16 16:37
schestowitzSay you want me to implement some features for you -- or several companies do -- then they fund developmentMar 16 16:37
schestowitzThey also reduces duplicationMar 16 16:37
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schestowitzWatch ApacheMar 16 16:37
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schestowitzSelling Free Software < http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/... >Mar 16 16:38
_Hicham_yesMar 16 16:38
*schestowitz was paid in the past to write GPL-licensed codeMar 16 16:38
_Hicham_we can sell free softwareMar 16 16:38
_Hicham_the freedom doesn't refer to freedom in priceMar 16 16:39
_Hicham_it is freedom to useMar 16 16:39
Balrogbut someone can redistribute it without charging ... (that would be the argument against it)Mar 16 16:39
_Hicham_what do u say about that Roy?Mar 16 16:40
schestowitzNew version of i3  < http://i3.zekjur.net/ > has just been released.Mar 16 16:41
schestowitzBalrog: some people will pay for the service or convenienceMar 16 16:41
schestowitzSee how many people choose Red Hat over CentOSMar 16 16:42
zer0c00lBalrog:you got your money anywayMar 16 16:42
schestowitzThere is more to it than just codeMar 16 16:42
zer0c00lBalrog:In indian constitution any one can go to a court and defend himself, but most people in india pay a lot to lawyer to defend them in courtMar 16 16:43
schestowitzIn the hacker culture you reuse lots of code and modify or merge to fit your needs, then contribute patches. So the cost of development is low and distribution.Mar 16 16:43
zer0c00lit works like a serviceMar 16 16:43
schestowitz(butedMar 16 16:43
schestowitzRight now I listen to 6GB of legally distributed music I got from torrent  for example (SXSW 2009).  I get to know bands I never heard of before.Mar 16 16:44
schestowitzSo rather than have the Britneys and Sinatras of whatever (fat moguls paying a dime to culture monopolists) you distribute the market widely, then pay for concerts, t-shits,etc.Mar 16 16:45
Balrogzer0c00l: then the argument becomes 'why GPL and not something less restrictive'Mar 16 16:45
schestowitzVery VERY bad to RIAA... very good to the random singer in town... people listen to it instead of be glued to Superbowl-like phenomenaMar 16 16:45
schestowitzBalrog: human natureMar 16 16:46
Balrogwhich is?Mar 16 16:46
zer0c00lcharging for each copies of software(product) is unethical, lets say company A  has manufactured a television, the cost for manufacturing the  second Television   set is more or less equal to the next one...But think of software whats the cost to make the second copy?Mar 16 16:46
zer0c00l*first oneMar 16 16:47
_Hicham_the economy is going toward servicesMar 16 16:47
Balrogpeople argue that it costs to write the software in the first place (developer time)Mar 16 16:47
_Hicham_not productsMar 16 16:47
*zer0c00l agrees with _Hicham_Mar 16 16:47
_Hicham_writing code is a platform for servicesMar 16 16:48
_Hicham_not a productMar 16 16:48
schestowitzWow. "AT Internet Institute has provided some interesting data looking into the evolution of web traffic. So far growth is slow this year." http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009...Mar 16 16:48
_Hicham_it is like opening a bankMar 16 16:48
schestowitz""Web traffic growth continued to slow down in 2008, for an equivalent number of websites," the report from AT says. Mar 16 16:49
_Hicham_u have to find the building and do all the stuff to serve peopleMar 16 16:49
zer0c00lLet say company A releases a software, it has some bugs , it fixes that bugs and added few features to the product and releases it, and ask the customer to pay the same amountMar 16 16:49
zer0c00l*addsMar 16 16:49
Balrogand....?Mar 16 16:51
_Hicham_Balrog : and u r doing a service thenMar 16 16:52
zer0c00llook @ M$'s "windows live one care" :their operating system is insecure and prone to attacks and viruses, to protect  from these threats  which are caused  my the mistake of M$, the customer has to pay themMar 16 16:52
zer0c00l*byMar 16 16:52
schestowitz:-)Mar 16 16:52
Balrogso charging for new features is ok? ....Mar 16 16:53
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schestowitzBalrog: some do itMar 16 17:01
schestowitzOr for installing them if it's hardMar 16 17:01
schestowitzPicture this..Mar 16 17:01
schestowitzDo you know how many -- say... singers wants a Web sites? Well, they are not always technical peopleMar 16 17:02
schestowitzSo here they invite you to take commodity tools like Apache and WordPress and set them upMar 16 17:02
Balrogbut then what about home users? ...Mar 16 17:02
schestowitzYou swap some code and hacks, plugins, etc.Mar 16 17:02
schestowitzYou migth also offer added value to the singerMar 16 17:02
schestowitzLike some code for managing oggsMar 16 17:02
schestowitzYou say, "i'll charge you less if you allow it to be GPL"Mar 16 17:03
schestowitzNot that they would mind anyway, not much of the time anywayMar 16 17:03
schestowitzSo here you are being paid to make software you own and share with the same people who gave you codeMar 16 17:03
schestowitzBalrog: what do you mean by home users?Mar 16 17:04
Balroglike the majority of windows usersMar 16 17:04
schestowitzSet them up with a Fedora box and programs they needMar 16 17:04
schestowitzThey don't always know what Linux isMar 16 17:04
schestowitzI spoke to a friend about it yesterdayMar 16 17:04
schestowitzHe didn't know about Wubi, so I told him.Mar 16 17:04
schestowitzHe works in security, so he isn't tech-savvy, but he'll try itMar 16 17:04
schestowitzA lot more money (=time) is spent maintaining and supporting existing systems than acquiring themMar 16 17:05
schestowitzIBM and Intel develop Linux so that they can sell harswareMar 16 17:05
schestowitzSame thing... hardware ~= manufacturing 'service'Mar 16 17:06
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Balrogwhat about the 'Marxist' argument?Mar 16 17:09
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schestowitzDaemonisation by connotationMar 16 17:10
schestowitzHis appearance is their excuseMar 16 17:10
schestowitzI think Stallman is more of a libertarian/anarchist than a 'communist'Mar 16 17:11
Balrog>> Marxist economicMar 16 17:12
Balrog> model behind GPLMar 16 17:12
schestowitzRemember that Marxism promotes ownership by the government and I don't think RMS is a big fan of overencompassing governmentMar 16 17:12
Balrog<< quiteMar 16 17:12
schestowitzMarxist ecnomyMar 16 17:12
Balrogquiote *Mar 16 17:12
schestowitzI'm not too familiar with itMar 16 17:12
Balrogquote **Mar 16 17:12
schestowitzI think it's the whole "one according to his ability"Mar 16 17:12
schestowitzBut that's not the sameMar 16 17:12
schestowitzAs codeMar 16 17:12
Balrogyes, that's the part I hearMar 16 17:12
schestowitzGPL = scienceMar 16 17:12
schestowitzI work with my colleagues to produce a good machineMar 16 17:13
schestowitzNot socialism either.Mar 16 17:13
schestowitzJust plain science. More like Newton.Mar 16 17:13
BalrogThe basic premise of Marxism, as stated by its early promoters, was "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." In practice, this devolves down to something closer to "Put in as little as possible, and take out as much as possible." Capitalists go at it the same way, but because what you can take out is closely coupled to how much you put in, people are motivated to put more into the system, thereby raising the wealth oMar 16 17:13
Balrog<< quoteMar 16 17:13
schestowitzExtreme capitalism is the issueMar 16 17:14
schestowitzNot capitaMar 16 17:14
schestowitzIt becomes destructiveMar 16 17:14
schestowitzIntellecutuals who criticise this are manyMar 16 17:15
schestowitzAre the Nobel-winning economists "Marxist" for slamming the patent system?Mar 16 17:15
tessier_Not at all.Mar 16 17:15
schestowitzIt's a lot of -- as one person calls it -- the consent system, IIRCMar 16 17:15
schestowitzLet's all pretend that patents=innocationMar 16 17:15
schestowitz*innovationMar 16 17:15
tessier_Marxism wasn't all wrong. Just mostly wrong.Mar 16 17:15
schestowitzThen we'll have an orgy of this assumption and write glorious papers to defend itMar 16 17:16
schestowitzThose who oppose it will be ridiculed Mar 16 17:16
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