04.03.09
IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 2nd, 2009 – Part 1
To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| DaemonFC | I avoid QT | Apr 02 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| DaemonFC | I always use GTK+, I will not install anything that uses QT | Apr 02 00:01 |
| DaemonFC | at least if I have any choice | Apr 02 00:01 |
| silentivm | I like Qt | Apr 02 00:02 |
| schestowitz | Very cool! : http://www.linuxjournal.com/vid… | Apr 02 00:03 |
| DaemonFC | KDE Krashes too much, it’s Kompletely bloated, and it’s laid out like the UI team is on KracK | Apr 02 00:04 |
| DaemonFC | and they depend on a toolkit that is controlled by Nokia | Apr 02 00:04 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: KDE is fantastic | Apr 02 00:06 |
| schestowitz | Never crashes | Apr 02 00:06 |
| silentivm | I used to like KDE3 | Apr 02 00:07 |
| silentivm | *I like | Apr 02 00:07 |
| DaemonFC | I never managed to keep it up more than a few hours | Apr 02 00:07 |
| schestowitz | The toolkit was frred (LGPL) | Apr 02 00:07 |
| silentivm | but KDE4 is far away from me | Apr 02 00:07 |
| schestowitz | *freed | Apr 02 00:07 |
| DaemonFC | without some major screup that either made me restart X | Apr 02 00:07 |
| DaemonFC | or hold in the power button | Apr 02 00:07 |
| silentivm | never had such problems, DaemonFC | Apr 02 00:07 |
| DaemonFC | that includes the builds of vanilla KDE 4.2.1 | Apr 02 00:07 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: is thr anything in Linux that you like? | Apr 02 00:07 |
| DaemonFC | that were made just for Mandriva, by the KDE people | Apr 02 00:07 |
| schestowitz | You were on a similar rant-rage the other day here in IRC. | Apr 02 00:08 |
| silentivm | I have 4.2.1 here | Apr 02 00:08 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm was annoyed by it | Apr 02 00:08 |
| schestowitz | And he’s no fanboi | Apr 02 00:08 |
| silentivm | but it is enough to torture me | Apr 02 00:08 |
| *ToreadorVampire has quit (“… and now back to the REAL fantasy world!”) | Apr 02 00:15 | |
| Balrog_ | Qt 4.5 is great!!! | Apr 02 00:18 |
| Balrog_ | GPL crashes much more | Apr 02 00:19 |
| schestowitz | gpl?? | Apr 02 00:21 |
| Balrog_ | GTK * | Apr 02 00:23 |
| Balrog_ | sorry  |
Apr 02 00:23 |
| Balrog_ | my bad | Apr 02 00:23 |
| silentivm | to say, I’ve never had problems with either. | Apr 02 00:24 |
| Balrog_ | I know there are mac haters here, but GTK is very experimental on Mac. There’s GTK.framework, but it’s certainly not as supported as Qt. | Apr 02 00:25 |
| Balrog_ | so if I’m doing cross-platform work, I’ll probably go with Qt | Apr 02 00:25 |
| *mattparry (n=quassel@118.93.35.221) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 02 00:32 | |
| mattparry | Hi! Im looking for an artical that is on boycott novell | Apr 02 00:32 |
| mattparry | its the text of a ‘presentation’ of a course on evangelism by an MS employee | Apr 02 00:33 |
| Balrog_ | I’ll get you the link | Apr 02 00:33 |
| mattparry | thank you balrog | Apr 02 00:34 |
| Balrog_ | http://www.groklaw.net/pdf/Com… | Apr 02 00:34 |
| Balrog_ | not BN, but the same file | Apr 02 00:34 |
| Balrog_ | << http://www.groklaw.net/articlebas… | Apr 02 00:34 |
| mattparry | thanks, Bruce Perens has wrote an interesting artical – http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/… | Apr 02 00:34 |
| mattparry | I wanted to reply to the first commenter about Sam Ranji | Apr 02 00:35 |
| schestowitz | Hey | Apr 02 00:36 |
| *schestowitz catches up | Apr 02 00:36 | |
| schestowitz | Hi, mattparry | Apr 02 00:37 |
| schestowitz | We have several | Apr 02 00:37 |
| Balrog_ | hi, schestowitz | Apr 02 00:37 |
| schestowitz | The presentation transcript? | Apr 02 00:37 |
| schestowitz | Or the slides? | Apr 02 00:37 |
| Balrog_ | that’s the ‘course on evangelism’ one. the full pdf | Apr 02 00:37 |
| schestowitz | Transcript is here: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0… | Apr 02 00:37 |
| mattparry | Hi schestowitz – you write some great articals – btw | Apr 02 00:38 |
| schestowitz | Presentation slides here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/01… | Apr 02 00:38 |
| schestowitz | mattparry: thanks, I appreciate hearing it, this motives me | Apr 02 00:38 |
| mattparry | i recall reading in the text about “go to conferences, dont say anthing bad, just listen, say a comment. make them think mirosoft is bad, but this guy is nice? | Apr 02 00:42 |
| schestowitz | Yes, see http://boycottnovell.com/2008/01/… | Apr 02 00:42 |
| schestowitz | Not just the full PDF (link at top) | Apr 02 00:42 |
| schestowitz | “Consultants: These guys are your best bets as moderators. Get a well-known consultant on your side early, but don’t let him publish anything blatantly pro-Microsoft. Then, get him to propose himself to the conference organizers as a moderator, whenever a panel opportunity comes up. Since he’s well-known, but apparently independent, he’ll be accepted – one less thing for the constantly-overworked conference organizer to worry | Apr 02 00:43 |
| schestowitz | about, right?” | Apr 02 00:43 |
| schestowitz | BillG loves those presentations. Microsoft is trying to distance itself from this because it’s leaked now. | Apr 02 00:43 |
| _Hicham_ | Bill Gates loves Schestowitz | Apr 02 00:50 |
| _Hicham_ | Ballmer is to fly to the UK to meet Schestowitz | Apr 02 00:50 |
| schestowitz | He was here. | Apr 02 00:51 |
| schestowitz | In London | Apr 02 00:51 |
| _Hicham_ | who? | Apr 02 00:51 |
| schestowitz | [H]omer has a video | Apr 02 00:51 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B0GT… | Apr 02 00:51 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watc… | Apr 02 00:51 |
| _Hicham_ | Ballmer is a fucking moron | Apr 02 00:53 |
| _Hicham_ | Can I use ur name on my website’s name Roy? | Apr 02 00:54 |
| schestowitz | Sure you can. | Apr 02 00:54 |
| schestowitz | Just don’t write crazy things like what Ballmer sez | Apr 02 00:55 |
| _Hicham_ | like http://www.royschestowitz.com? | Apr 02 00:55 |
| _Hicham_ | but this website will be the opposite of BN | Apr 02 00:56 |
| _Hicham_ | I will fill it with posts promoting MS | Apr 02 00:57 |
| _Hicham_ | about the compiz available for Windows, is it true? | Apr 02 00:57 |
| _Hicham_ | there is already some effects | Apr 02 00:58 |
| _Hicham_ | from a Japanese folk | Apr 02 00:58 |
| _Hicham_ | Yo… sthg | Apr 02 00:59 |
| _Hicham_ | I don’t remember | Apr 02 00:59 |
| _Hicham_ | no one in here again | Apr 02 00:59 |
| schestowitz | ?? | Apr 02 00:59 |
| schestowitz | Windows? | Apr 02 00:59 |
| schestowitz | Why? | Apr 02 00:59 |
| _Hicham_ | yes | Apr 02 01:00 |
| _Hicham_ | there is a suite called DeskSpace | Apr 02 01:00 |
| _Hicham_ | but it is not free | Apr 02 01:00 |
| _Hicham_ | u didn’t heard of it | Apr 02 01:00 |
| _Hicham_ | ? | Apr 02 01:00 |
| *mattparry_ (n=quassel@118.93.55.137) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 02 01:01 | |
| _Hicham_ | it uses OpenGL | Apr 02 01:01 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz is a Windows retailer in the UK | Apr 02 01:01 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz discusses with Ballmer possible solutions to face the growth of Linux and efficient ways to kill it | Apr 02 01:02 |
| mattparry_ | Thanks roy, just writing my comment on the blog site now | Apr 02 01:02 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz is working in secret with MS | Apr 02 01:03 |
| _Hicham_ | did u post sthg new Roy? | Apr 02 01:03 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz is using MonoDevelop to use .NET applications on his future server | Apr 02 01:03 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I never heard about DeskSpace | Apr 02 01:03 |
| schestowitz | I was just posting about CAD for GNU/Linux | Apr 02 01:04 |
| _Hicham_ | it was created by a Japanese folks | Apr 02 01:04 |
| schestowitz | Some program that’s new to me | Apr 02 01:04 |
| schestowitz | They port to a stable platform | Apr 02 01:04 |
| _Hicham_ | its initial name was Yo3D | Apr 02 01:04 |
| schestowitz | [not Vista] | Apr 02 01:04 |
| _Hicham_ | it was free at first | Apr 02 01:04 |
| _Hicham_ | then they made it shareware | Apr 02 01:04 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: don’t associate me with MS products  |
Apr 02 01:04 |
| schestowitz | It’s an inherently corrupt company, since inception | Apr 02 01:05 |
| _Hicham_ | it is just to provocate u | Apr 02 01:05 |
| _Hicham_ | a troll try | Apr 02 01:05 |
| schestowitz | Provoke oiaohm instead | Apr 02 01:05 |
| schestowitz |  |
Apr 02 01:05 |
| _Hicham_ | he is not here | Apr 02 01:05 |
| _Hicham_ | there is no one to talk to | Apr 02 01:06 |
| _Hicham_ | that is why I am writing this | Apr 02 01:06 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz hosts its website in MS Headquarters | Apr 02 01:06 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz uses Windows on all of his machines | Apr 02 01:07 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz is connecting Novell and MS | Apr 02 01:07 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz will marry Bill Gates’ daughter | Apr 02 01:07 |
| DaemonFC | the patches to make Ext4 stop eating babies land tonight | Apr 02 01:08 |
| DaemonFC | when git9 drops | Apr 02 01:08 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : did u try Ext4? | Apr 02 01:08 |
| mattparry_ | has Miguel de Icaza said anything since the tomtom case and how MS have again showed they are not really open? | Apr 02 01:08 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, it ate some of my data | Apr 02 01:08 |
| DaemonFC | cause the system froze | Apr 02 01:08 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : so now it is officially recommended? | Apr 02 01:09 |
| DaemonFC | these patches restore Ext3 style fsync behavior | Apr 02 01:09 |
| DaemonFC | Meh, better go with something else if you’re not comfortable with test kernels | Apr 02 01:09 |
| _Hicham_ | If I have a dedicated machine, why not | Apr 02 01:09 |
| DaemonFC | XFS or possibly Ext3 | Apr 02 01:09 |
| _Hicham_ | I like to test | Apr 02 01:10 |
| DaemonFC | 2.6.29-git8 breaks Nvidia installer | Apr 02 01:10 |
| silentivm | I have been using Ext4 here | Apr 02 01:10 |
| DaemonFC | I had to patch their kernel interface sources | Apr 02 01:10 |
| silentivm | no problems | Apr 02 01:10 |
| mattparry_ | Im useing ext4 also | Apr 02 01:10 |
| mattparry_ | no problems | Apr 02 01:10 |
| DaemonFC | Ext4 is fine as long as you don’t crash | Apr 02 01:10 |
| mattparry_ | though I am on a laptop | Apr 02 01:10 |
| DaemonFC | before it commits | Apr 02 01:10 |
| _Hicham_ | does it bring any performance improvments? | Apr 02 01:10 |
| silentivm | I’m on a laptop, too | Apr 02 01:11 |
| DaemonFC | oh hell yes | Apr 02 01:11 |
| DaemonFC | Ext4 is blazing fast | Apr 02 01:11 |
| mattparry_ | i have noticed a performance increase in my virtualbox guests | Apr 02 01:11 |
| DaemonFC | even faster than XFS | Apr 02 01:11 |
| _Hicham_ | does it improve boot time also? | Apr 02 01:11 |
| DaemonFC | not much, but yes | Apr 02 01:11 |
| DaemonFC | I ran boot chart on it | Apr 02 01:11 |
| DaemonFC | it beats Ext3 by 3.02 seconds | Apr 02 01:11 |
| DaemonFC | to be precise | Apr 02 01:11 |
| DaemonFC | on this system | Apr 02 01:11 |
| DaemonFC | that’s not really where you’ll notice the improvements | Apr 02 01:12 |
| DaemonFC | go to delete an unpacked kernel source folder | Apr 02 01:12 |
| DaemonFC | Ext4 is done in less then 3 seconds | Apr 02 01:12 |
| DaemonFC | XFS takes over a minute | Apr 02 01:12 |
| _Hicham_ | less than 3 seconds? | Apr 02 01:12 |
| DaemonFC | that’s one example | Apr 02 01:12 |
| DaemonFC | yes | Apr 02 01:12 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: why do you lurk in the ext channels? | Apr 02 01:12 |
| _Hicham_ | wow | Apr 02 01:12 |
| _Hicham_ | that is bleezing fast | Apr 02 01:12 |
| DaemonFC | I thought I screwed up and deleted the wrong folder the first time I did it | Apr 02 01:13 |
| schestowitz | mattparry: Miguel said nothing | Apr 02 01:13 |
| schestowitz | He ignores Microsoft’s bad behaviour completely | Apr 02 01:13 |
| schestowitz | He also defneds them publicly | Apr 02 01:13 |
| *mattparry has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Apr 02 01:13 | |
| _Hicham_ | Miguel de Icaza is an MS puppet | Apr 02 01:13 |
| DaemonFC | of course he does, he’s a well paid stooge at Novell | Apr 02 01:13 |
| *mattparry (n=quassel@118-93-55-137.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 02 01:13 | |
| DaemonFC | he gets paid to say good things about MS | Apr 02 01:14 |
| DaemonFC | and fired if he says bad things | Apr 02 01:14 |
| mattparry | lol! | Apr 02 01:14 |
| DaemonFC | I’d say good things about MS if my six figure job depended on it | Apr 02 01:14 |
| _Hicham_ | poor puppet | Apr 02 01:14 |
| DaemonFC | I don’t know many people that wouldn’t |
Apr 02 01:14 |
| _Hicham_ | well I won’t | Apr 02 01:15 |
| schestowitz | I didn’t know about Nat Fiedman | Apr 02 01:15 |
| _Hicham_ | sincerely | Apr 02 01:15 |
| schestowitz | Only a week ago I found out he worked AT MICROSOFT | Apr 02 01:15 |
| schestowitz | That’s Miguel’s buddy | Apr 02 01:15 |
| _Hicham_ | principles are everything in life | Apr 02 01:15 |
| schestowitz | Miguel wanted to work there with him | Apr 02 01:15 |
| schestowitz | But he was not good enough for Microsoft | Apr 02 01:15 |
| _Hicham_ | wow | Apr 02 01:15 |
| _Hicham_ | what a pathetic man | Apr 02 01:15 |
| mattparry | what about sam ramji? | Apr 02 01:15 |
| DaemonFC | Miguel De Icaza….now why in the hell would he still have any pull with GNOME? | Apr 02 01:15 |
| DaemonFC | GNOME is part of GNU, right? | Apr 02 01:15 |
| schestowitz | Ramji reminds me of deIcaza | Apr 02 01:16 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : Gnome is infected with Novell shit | Apr 02 01:16 |
| schestowitz | I don’t know why | Apr 02 01:16 |
| DaemonFC | why would GNU infect their own desktop environment with Mono? | Apr 02 01:16 |
| schestowitz | Maybe appearance in part, but both are stooges | Apr 02 01:16 |
| schestowitz | That would be the reason | Apr 02 01:16 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : ask Gnome devs | Apr 02 01:16 |
| schestowitz | Standing there on stage pretending to be victims | Apr 02 01:16 |
| schestowitz | “poor” Microsoft | Apr 02 01:16 |
| *DaemonFC uses GNOME | Apr 02 01:16 | |
| mattparry | use kde!!! | Apr 02 01:16 |
| *silentivm uses Openbox |
Apr 02 01:16 | |
| DaemonFC | KDE is terrible or I probably would | Apr 02 01:17 |
| mattparry | isn’t that ‘poor mircrosoft’ in the evangalism manual? | Apr 02 01:17 |
| DaemonFC | and everything else is stripped down to run on Pentiums with 32 megs of RAM | Apr 02 01:17 |
| DaemonFC | heh | Apr 02 01:17 |
| _Hicham_ | DeamonFC : u can use cleaned GNOME | Apr 02 01:17 |
| mattparry | kde 4.2 is really good – imho | Apr 02 01:17 |
| _Hicham_ | but u can’t remove Evolution completely | Apr 02 01:17 |
| schestowitz | mattparry: no occurrence of “poor Microsoft” there. | Apr 02 01:17 |
| DaemonFC | Evolution doesn’t depend on Mono | Apr 02 01:17 |
| schestowitz | But James P plays the poor puppet game | Apr 02 01:18 |
| DaemonFC | but there are extensions made with Mono that you can use | Apr 02 01:18 |
| schestowitz | Like Ramji &n Migi | Apr 02 01:18 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : Evolution is a Novell Product | Apr 02 01:18 |
| mattparry | well, you know, “hes a nice guy” act | Apr 02 01:18 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Apr 02 01:18 |
| schestowitz | See transcripts | Apr 02 01:18 |
| schestowitz | How he talks about himself | Apr 02 01:18 |
| schestowitz | Everyone loves me etc etc | Apr 02 01:18 |
| schestowitz | And they cry like babies when denied access to rival conferences | Apr 02 01:19 |
| schestowitz | They use sympathy to create guilt | Apr 02 01:19 |
| _Hicham_ | Miguel de Icaza : “We were suffering before MS invent .NET” | Apr 02 01:19 |
| schestowitz | Getting past the ‘guards’ this way | Apr 02 01:19 |
| DaemonFC | I don’t really care if they made it or not | Apr 02 01:19 |
| mattparry | so why no boycott microsoft website? | Apr 02 01:19 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : that is all this room is about | Apr 02 01:19 |
| DaemonFC | it’s GPL’d and doesn’t depend on Mono | Apr 02 01:19 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: yes, … Miguel de Icaza: ‘We had some painful experiences with C and C++, and when Microsoft came out with .NET, we said, “Yes! That is what we want.”‘ | Apr 02 01:19 |
| schestowitz | True quote | Apr 02 01:19 |
| schestowitz | mattparry: too late to change site name | Apr 02 01:20 |
| schestowitz | Call it what you like, the theme is the same | Apr 02 01:20 |
| schestowitz | Threats to GNU/Linux | Apr 02 01:20 |
| schestowitz | Mostly external/subversive | Apr 02 01:20 |
| mattparry | thank god Miguel is not developing within KDE – thats all I can say | Apr 02 01:20 |
| schestowitz | Corruption, patents, sabotage, etc | Apr 02 01:20 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz is the new RMS | Apr 02 01:20 |
| schestowitz | mattparry: don’t rejoice just yet | Apr 02 01:21 |
| schestowitz | He blogged about Mono in Qt 2 weeks ago | Apr 02 01:21 |
| DaemonFC | if GNOME is sued out of existence, it wouldn’t be hard for me to switch to KDE | Apr 02 01:21 |
| mattparry | i saw that | Apr 02 01:21 |
| schestowitz | They push it into KDE as much as they can, AFAICT | Apr 02 01:21 |
| DaemonFC | all KDE is, is another pile of packages | Apr 02 01:21 |
| schestowitz | KDE devs resist | Apr 02 01:21 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz is the UK RMS | Apr 02 01:21 |
| schestowitz | I see it in the mailing lists | Apr 02 01:21 |
| schestowitz | Some arbitrary dev comes and asks for c# hooks | Apr 02 01:21 |
| schestowitz | They eventually give them but there ius resistance | Apr 02 01:21 |
| _Hicham_ | KDE won’t let Mono in their packages | Apr 02 01:21 |
| schestowitz | They should be ssmareter post-TomTom | Apr 02 01:22 |
| schestowitz | *smarter | Apr 02 01:22 |
| mattparry | yes, but kde has visionaries like aaron seigo | Apr 02 01:22 |
| _Hicham_ | they got into GNOME because they have some old friends over there | Apr 02 01:22 |
| _Hicham_ | Plus, Novell has good relationships with RedHat | Apr 02 01:22 |
| _Hicham_ | RedHat hosts GNOME | Apr 02 01:22 |
| mattparry | seigo seems to know what he stands for | Apr 02 01:22 |
| DaemonFC | you can’t use KDE professionally | Apr 02 01:23 |
| DaemonFC | that’s why Red Hat ships GNOME | Apr 02 01:23 |
| DaemonFC | KDE is unstable and inconsistent | Apr 02 01:23 |
| mattparry | what makes you say that you cannot use KDE professionally? | Apr 02 01:23 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : what is the difference between Mono and dotgnu? | Apr 02 01:23 |
| DaemonFC | nobody would ship that with a product that’s stable | Apr 02 01:23 |
| silentivm | DaemonFC, only for you | Apr 02 01:23 |
| silentivm | because I, and 99% of KDE users, haven’t had problems | Apr 02 01:23 |
| silentivm | of course, occasional crashes happen | Apr 02 01:23 |
| DaemonFC | KDE is harder to use, crashes, and incomplete | Apr 02 01:23 |
| silentivm | but not to be “unstable an dinconsistent” | Apr 02 01:23 |
| silentivm | *and | Apr 02 01:23 |
| DaemonFC | an enterprise Linux can’t use it because it’s not good enough | Apr 02 01:24 |
| silentivm | and I fail to see why “KDE is harder to use” | Apr 02 01:24 |
| _Hicham_ | troll | Apr 02 01:24 |
| _Hicham_ | troll | Apr 02 01:24 |
| _Hicham_ | troll | Apr 02 01:24 |
| _Hicham_ | troll | Apr 02 01:24 |
| DaemonFC | Because their menus are laid out wrong | Apr 02 01:24 |
| _Hicham_ | troll | Apr 02 01:24 |
| DaemonFC | it’s a nightmare to do anything with | Apr 02 01:24 |
| _Hicham_ | troll | Apr 02 01:24 |
| silentivm | DaemonFC, this is a distro problem | Apr 02 01:24 |
| _Hicham_ | troll | Apr 02 01:24 |
| silentivm | badly-written .desktop files | Apr 02 01:24 |
| mattparry | i thought this was about mono in destkops, not a troll war about de’s? | Apr 02 01:24 |
| DaemonFC | there shouldn’t be any settings files in ~/.kde | Apr 02 01:25 |
| _Hicham_ | warning : troll in progress | Apr 02 01:25 |
| DaemonFC | they should use a database | Apr 02 01:25 |
| silentivm | DaemonFC, why should they use a database? | Apr 02 01:25 |
| DaemonFC | makes it less likely to be corrupted when their system crashed | Apr 02 01:25 |
| _Hicham_ | warning : troll in progress | Apr 02 01:25 |
| silentivm | to make something like gconf (which I hate)? | Apr 02 01:25 |
| silentivm | and also, if KDE crashes all the time for you, likely you have a hardware problem | Apr 02 01:25 |
| silentivm | sure, any app is subject to crashing | Apr 02 01:25 |
| DaemonFC | nope | Apr 02 01:25 |
| DaemonFC | KDE is unstable | Apr 02 01:25 |
| silentivm | DaemonFC, only for YOU | Apr 02 01:25 |
| _Hicham_ | both KDE and GNOME are good | Apr 02 01:25 |
| DaemonFC | never had any other desktop or even KDE 3 do that | Apr 02 01:25 |
| _Hicham_ | their are different philosophies | Apr 02 01:26 |
| silentivm | KDE4 is still buggy | Apr 02 01:26 |
| DaemonFC | KDE 4 is poorly designed | Apr 02 01:26 |
| _Hicham_ | that is all | Apr 02 01:26 |
| _Hicham_ | doesn’t mean that one is superior to the other | Apr 02 01:26 |
| DaemonFC | never have system freezes with anything else | Apr 02 01:26 |
| DaemonFC | and KDE will kill the X server quite a lot too | Apr 02 01:26 |
| silentivm | neither did I, in fact I don’t remember the time I had a system freeze | Apr 02 01:26 |
| _Hicham_ | unbased arguments | Apr 02 01:27 |
| DaemonFC | nope | Apr 02 01:27 |
| DaemonFC | KDE is Krap | Apr 02 01:27 |
| _Hicham_ | u can’t talk like that folks | Apr 02 01:27 |
| DaemonFC | plain and simple | Apr 02 01:27 |
| silentivm | plain, simple and wrong | Apr 02 01:27 |
| mattparry | Roy, how come I have not seen any links to boycottnovell in lxer.com for ages? | Apr 02 01:27 |
| silentivm | just because something doesn’t work for you doesn’t mean you need to use the same arguments of a 13-year-old child | Apr 02 01:27 |
| *_Hicham_ has quit (Excess Flood) | Apr 02 01:28 | |
| schestowitz | mattparry: ask lxer’s editors, I guess. | Apr 02 01:28 |
| DaemonFC | KDE is too unstable, incomplete, and poorly designed to use in a proper product | Apr 02 01:28 |
| schestowitz | LinuxToday links to us sometimes | Apr 02 01:28 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.83.0) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 02 01:28 | |
| DaemonFC | if you want your system to crash and freeze multiple times per hour, wonderful | Apr 02 01:28 |
| silentivm | KDE4 is still in heavy development, DaemonFC | Apr 02 01:28 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: stop trolling, please | Apr 02 01:28 |
| silentivm | stop trolling | Apr 02 01:28 |
| schestowitz | All you ever do here is slam projects with FUD | Apr 02 01:28 |
| DaemonFC | it’s not FUD, you can’t use KDE | Apr 02 01:29 |
| DaemonFC | try it | Apr 02 01:29 |
| schestowitz | I use KDE | Apr 02 01:29 |
| silentivm | DaemonFC, I’ve tried and I can | Apr 02 01:29 |
| schestowitz | Have done since 2000 | Apr 02 01:29 |
| schestowitz | It’s great | Apr 02 01:29 |
| silentivm | this is different from “I like it” | Apr 02 01:29 |
| schestowitz | Very stable | Apr 02 01:29 |
| DaemonFC | well, it’s either crashing or you are lying | Apr 02 01:29 |
| _Hicham_ | crappy discussion | Apr 02 01:29 |
| silentivm | DaemonFC, I’m not lying | Apr 02 01:29 |
| _Hicham_ | i never said that | Apr 02 01:29 |
| _Hicham_ | but it is really crappy | Apr 02 01:29 |
| _Hicham_ | what u r talking about | Apr 02 01:29 |
| _Hicham_ | who is still talking like that? | Apr 02 01:29 |
| DaemonFC | I’ve tried the 4.x series on several distributions, on 3 different machines | Apr 02 01:29 |
| *mattparry_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Apr 02 01:29 | |
| silentivm | KDE4 is still in *HEAVY DEVELOPMENT*. Is that so hard to grasp? | Apr 02 01:30 |
| DaemonFC | some won’t even start up on the LiveCD | Apr 02 01:30 |
| _Hicham_ | freedesktop standardized things long time ago | Apr 02 01:30 |
| DaemonFC | no, but why they lie and label it a stable end-user product | Apr 02 01:30 |
| DaemonFC | that is hard to grasp | Apr 02 01:30 |
| _Hicham_ | only dumb people still talk like that about DE | Apr 02 01:30 |
| _Hicham_ | where is oiaohm? | Apr 02 01:30 |
| DaemonFC | it’s like they want to hurt themselves by shipping crap that is not stable | Apr 02 01:31 |
| DaemonFC | and pretending it is | Apr 02 01:31 |
| Balrog_ | 4.2 is stable end-user | Apr 02 01:31 |
| DaemonFC | Even Debian won’t even try to sell KDE 4.x, they even steer you away from KDE period | Apr 02 01:32 |
| mattparry | Ry, I have just asked lxer.com. I’ll let you know if I get an answer!! | Apr 02 01:32 |
| mattparry | *Roy | Apr 02 01:32 |
| DaemonFC | Slackware won’t use KDE 4 | Apr 02 01:32 |
| DaemonFC | nor will MEPIS with the author commenting that there is no way to make KDE 4 work right | Apr 02 01:33 |
| DaemonFC | Linus Torvalds even went back to GNOME | Apr 02 01:33 |
| silentivm | so what? | Apr 02 01:33 |
| DaemonFC | calling KDE 4 a total disaster | Apr 02 01:33 |
| silentivm | doesn’t change a thing for me | Apr 02 01:33 |
| Balrog_ | KDE 4.2????? | Apr 02 01:33 |
| Balrog_ | no, 4.0 which should have been called beta | Apr 02 01:33 |
| DaemonFC | KDE 4.2 doesn’t improve anything | Apr 02 01:33 |
| schestowitz | He tried 4.0 | Apr 02 01:34 |
| schestowitz | Too early | Apr 02 01:34 |
| DaemonFC | still incomplete still unstable | Apr 02 01:34 |
| schestowitz | Same with 3.0 | Apr 02 01:34 |
| schestowitz | I used 3.1 for 3 years | Apr 02 01:34 |
| schestowitz | It was great | Apr 02 01:34 |
| schestowitz | Stable | Apr 02 01:34 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz accepts trolling | Apr 02 01:34 |
| silentivm | I’ve had no problems with KDE 3.x | Apr 02 01:34 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, well, by 3.1 everything was better and yay | Apr 02 01:34 |
| DaemonFC | but KDE 4.x is like Vista | Apr 02 01:34 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: no, but better not to feed trolling | Apr 02 01:34 |
| _Hicham_ | the room is filled with crappy discussions | Apr 02 01:34 |
| DaemonFC | so bad that people go back to somthing that’s years older | Apr 02 01:34 |
| DaemonFC | cause it works much better | Apr 02 01:34 |
| Balrog_ | \waste of time\ | Apr 02 01:35 |
| Balrog_ | \(to respond to such people)\ | Apr 02 01:35 |
| schestowitz | I know. | Apr 02 01:35 |
| DaemonFC | oh right, Sabayon is still using 3.5.10 | Apr 02 01:35 |
| DaemonFC | and does Compiz to fill in that gap | Apr 02 01:35 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: kindly stop trolling or leave | Apr 02 01:35 |
| DaemonFC | I’m not trolling, people tell me to stop using what works | Apr 02 01:36 |
| DaemonFC | and I’m telling them why I won’t | Apr 02 01:36 |
| silentivm | DaemonFC, but nobody wants to listen to your rants | Apr 02 01:36 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: GNOME works. Mono doesn’t work for me. | Apr 02 01:36 |
| silentivm | at least not here | Apr 02 01:36 |
| _Hicham_ | no one tells u what to choose | Apr 02 01:36 |
| Balrog_ | it’s a total mess | Apr 02 01:36 |
| silentivm | if you want to rant, start a blog | Apr 02 01:36 |
| silentivm | and write there | Apr 02 01:36 |
| _Hicham_ | Linux = Freedom | Apr 02 01:37 |
| Balrog_ | GNU/Linux ** | Apr 02 01:37 |
| _Hicham_ | people against freedom should be banned from the world | Apr 02 01:37 |
| DaemonFC | Mono sucks before you take licenses into account | Apr 02 01:37 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: this room is not a bug report area | Apr 02 01:37 |
| _Hicham_ | and sent to another planet | Apr 02 01:37 |
| DaemonFC | it’s not like you lose anything to get rid of it | Apr 02 01:37 |
| schestowitz | Nor a place to rant about projects you don’t like | Apr 02 01:37 |
| silentivm | if you have problems with KDE4, write a bug report | Apr 02 01:37 |
| silentivm | a well-written one | Apr 02 01:38 |
| _Hicham_ | this room has another mission | Apr 02 01:38 |
| silentivm | ranting on an IRC channel has almost zero value | Apr 02 01:38 |
| _Hicham_ | this rooms discusses the crimes against free software | Apr 02 01:38 |
| DaemonFC | well, in case you missed it though, even Richard Stallman says Mono is OK | Apr 02 01:38 |
| _Hicham_ | trolling again | Apr 02 01:38 |
| DaemonFC | as long as nothing important depends on it | Apr 02 01:38 |
| _Hicham_ | troll | Apr 02 01:39 |
| _Hicham_ | troll | Apr 02 01:39 |
| DaemonFC | no, you’re using a clone of UNIX | Apr 02 01:39 |
| _Hicham_ | troll | Apr 02 01:39 |
| DaemonFC | with languages written by AT&T | Apr 02 01:39 |
| _Hicham_ | troll | Apr 02 01:39 |
| _Hicham_ | fucking crappy discussions | Apr 02 01:39 |
| _Hicham_ | what is this Roy? | Apr 02 01:39 |
| _Hicham_ | what is this decadence? | Apr 02 01:40 |
| DaemonFC | it’s not really freedom when you design something with most of your jailers original specifications | Apr 02 01:40 |
| _Hicham_ | then fuck off and go use Windows, and lick MS butt | Apr 02 01:40 |
| _Hicham_ | this room is not for that | Apr 02 01:40 |
| DaemonFC | What surprised me is that Red Hat is apparently using Nouveau in Fedora 11 | Apr 02 01:42 |
| DaemonFC | which was done by reverse engineering the real Nvidia driver | Apr 02 01:42 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: why wouldn’t they? | Apr 02 01:42 |
| Balrog_ | no, not reverse engineering the nvidia driver | Apr 02 01:42 |
| DaemonFC | opens them up to a lawsuit | Apr 02 01:42 |
| schestowitz | Check out those labels: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13846_3-10208868-6… | Apr 02 01:42 |
| Balrog_ | you’re very wrong | Apr 02 01:42 |
| schestowitz | He;s vert troll | Apr 02 01:42 |
| DaemonFC | no, they’re violating Nvidia’s patents in the driver | Apr 02 01:42 |
| schestowitz | Don’t feed the trolls | Apr 02 01:42 |
| DaemonFC | and will be sued | Apr 02 01:42 |
| Balrog_ | it’s more like capturing the state of the card, doing a graphics operation, capturing again | Apr 02 01:43 |
| Balrog_ | comparing the two states | Apr 02 01:43 |
| DaemonFC | but if they uncover trade secrets in this way that Nvidia owns patents on | Apr 02 01:43 |
| DaemonFC | then how is this any better? | Apr 02 01:43 |
| DaemonFC | or another thing, what stops Nvidia from changing their hardware specs again | Apr 02 01:44 |
| DaemonFC | So you get to go years more without drivers for their new line | Apr 02 01:44 |
| mattparry | can we get rid of the troll? | Apr 02 01:45 |
| silentivm | please | Apr 02 01:45 |
| schestowitz | Sure. | Apr 02 01:45 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*n=ryan@*.hsd1.il.comcast.net | Apr 02 01:45 | |
| *Love (i=ad1d7b24@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d06070c4103e0214) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 02 01:45 | |
| silentivm | thank you | Apr 02 01:45 |
| *schestowitz has kicked DaemonFC from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Apr 02 01:45 | |
| Love | Hi everyone. | Apr 02 01:45 |
| schestowitz | Hey. | Apr 02 01:45 |
| _Hicham_ | thank u Roy | Apr 02 01:45 |
| schestowitz | I gave him a warning | Apr 02 01:45 |
| schestowitz | In private | Apr 02 01:45 |
| mattparry | thanx | Apr 02 01:45 |
| schestowitz | He did not obey | Apr 02 01:45 |
| Balrog_ | thanks | Apr 02 01:45 |
| _Hicham_ | that is the best solution | Apr 02 01:45 |
| Love | Happy April 1st. | Apr 02 01:45 |
| Balrog_ | that was too much | Apr 02 01:45 |
| schestowitz | I never kick anyone | Apr 02 01:45 |
| _Hicham_ | what a relief | Apr 02 01:45 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> pls stop trolling or I ban you. | Apr 02 01:46 |
| schestowitz | <DaemonFC> fucking moron | Apr 02 01:46 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : he forced u too | Apr 02 01:46 |
| Love | I won’t troll, I promise. | Apr 02 01:46 |
| schestowitz | I know | Apr 02 01:46 |
| schestowitz | I can’t recall banning people | Apr 02 01:46 |
| schestowitz | [H]omer did almost 1 year ago | Apr 02 01:46 |
| schestowitz | We’ve been troll-free for ages. | Apr 02 01:46 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : me too I am against banning people | Apr 02 01:46 |
| schestowitz | What’s up, Love ? | Apr 02 01:46 |
| _Hicham_ | but this one is too much | Apr 02 01:47 |
| schestowitz | Sounds funny in Britian | Apr 02 01:47 |
| schestowitz | *Britain | Apr 02 01:47 |
| Love | Indeed. | Apr 02 01:47 |
| mattparry | it does – lol | Apr 02 01:47 |
| Love | Not much, just trying to enjoy today. | Apr 02 01:47 |
| Love | Bit of a rainy day out here. | Apr 02 01:47 |
| schestowitz | Whereabouts? | Apr 02 01:47 |
| _Hicham_ | it is always rainy in Britain | Apr 02 01:47 |
| Love | Connecticut | Apr 02 01:47 |
| _Hicham_ | Connecticut, what a nice State | Apr 02 01:48 |
| Love | Usually is. | Apr 02 01:48 |
| _Hicham_ | it has great colors on the trees | Apr 02 01:48 |
| Love | Best place for human rights in the US, really. | Apr 02 01:48 |
| _Hicham_ | I like its nature | Apr 02 01:48 |
| _Hicham_ | there is no human rights in the US | Apr 02 01:48 |
| _Hicham_ | and everyone knows that | Apr 02 01:48 |
| Love | I’d say it’s improving | Apr 02 01:48 |
| _Hicham_ | people get killed easily over there | Apr 02 01:48 |
| Love | People easily get killed anywhere. | Apr 02 01:48 |
| Love | It’s really just important to value what you’ve got and work with it. | Apr 02 01:49 |
| _Hicham_ | no the US way | Apr 02 01:49 |
| _Hicham_ | everyone has a gun | Apr 02 01:49 |
| _Hicham_ | so it is basically easy to kill | Apr 02 01:49 |
| _Hicham_ | that to use a knife | Apr 02 01:49 |
| _Hicham_ | or ur fists | Apr 02 01:49 |
| schestowitz | it’s a social condition | Apr 02 01:49 |
| Love | So, by simple logic, the US is automatically a killing terrorizing place because of our availability of weapons? | Apr 02 01:49 |
| schestowitz | Not availability of weapons | Apr 02 01:50 |
| _Hicham_ | nonetheless, it is improving | Apr 02 01:50 |
| schestowitz | Biggest atrocities right now happen in Congo, AFAIK | Apr 02 01:50 |
| Love | That’s very true. | Apr 02 01:50 |
| schestowitz | Or somewhere else in east Africa | Apr 02 01:50 |
| _Hicham_ | the new laws are more restrictive | Apr 02 01:50 |
| Love | Then again, I think a bigger problem is just how many corporations cover up these problems. | Apr 02 01:50 |
| schestowitz | The press never covered Congo | Apr 02 01:50 |
| _Hicham_ | which is good | Apr 02 01:50 |
| schestowitz | It’s irrelevant | Apr 02 01:50 |
| Love | Divert our funds to the wrong placve. | Apr 02 01:50 |
| schestowitz | [to the press] | Apr 02 01:50 |
| Love | Etc, etc. | Apr 02 01:50 |
| Love | Speaking of the press. | Apr 02 01:50 |
| _Hicham_ | Africa is just a big mess | Apr 02 01:50 |
| Love | There seems to be an awful lot of anti-Linux FUD nowadays. | Apr 02 01:51 |
| schestowitz | A kid killing classmate in US college is more important than a genocide of 5 million people | Apr 02 01:51 |
| Love | Especially against distros that aren’t even connected with Novell. | Apr 02 01:51 |
| Love | Sad. | Apr 02 01:51 |
| schestowitz | Africa lacks funding now | Apr 02 01:51 |
| Love | Ah, shame. | Apr 02 01:51 |
| schestowitz | Too much reliance on goodwill/donations | Apr 02 01:51 |
| _Hicham_ | Africa is dying | Apr 02 01:51 |
| Love | Too much reliance on government manipulation for that matter. | Apr 02 01:51 |
| Love | Ironic. | Apr 02 01:51 |
| schestowitz | I think I forgot the exact number, but it’s checking… like donations halved | Apr 02 01:51 |
| _Hicham_ | and Europe/US is the cause | Apr 02 01:51 |
| Love | It’s practicaly where life began. | Apr 02 01:51 |
| *silentivm has quit (“Este usuário executou uma operação ilegal e será fechado.”) | Apr 02 01:52 | |
| _Hicham_ | the Europe/US industry is the cause of the drought in Ethiopia | Apr 02 01:52 |
| _Hicham_ | I saw a documentary about that | Apr 02 01:53 |
| Love | Really? So did I. | Apr 02 01:54 |
| _Hicham_ | It was in BBC Horizon | Apr 02 01:54 |
| Love | My boyfriend brought it up for me. | Apr 02 01:54 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : do u watch BBC Horizon? | Apr 02 01:54 |
| Love | Bit of an activist, he is. | Apr 02 01:54 |
| _Hicham_ | Love : are u a girl? | Apr 02 01:54 |
| Love | Yep. | Apr 02 01:54 |
| _Hicham_ | Great | Apr 02 01:54 |
| Love | Woman and proud. | Apr 02 01:54 |
| _Hicham_ | at least we have some women in the room | Apr 02 01:55 |
| _Hicham_ | the quota should be balanced | Apr 02 01:55 |
| Love | Well, it was my boyfriend that got me onto GNU/Linux in general. | Apr 02 01:55 |
| Love | gNewSense is a great distro. | Apr 02 01:55 |
| _Hicham_ | Great | Apr 02 01:55 |
| _Hicham_ | welcome to Linux world | Apr 02 01:55 |
| Balrog_ | what about BLAG? | Apr 02 01:55 |
| Love | Hmm, never heard much about it to be honest. | Apr 02 01:56 |
| _Hicham_ | this is a great room to discuss Linux issues | Apr 02 01:56 |
| Love | I try to stay away from distros with binary blobs. | Apr 02 01:56 |
| Balrog_ | I hear it’s an FSF-approved derivative of Fedora | Apr 02 01:56 |
| _Hicham_ | Balrog_ : gNewSense? | Apr 02 01:56 |
| Balrog_ | the rpm-based equivalent to gNewSense | Apr 02 01:56 |
| Balrog_ | no, BLAG | Apr 02 01:56 |
| _Hicham_ | ah | Apr 02 01:56 |
| Love | Mm, will have to check it out. | Apr 02 01:56 |
| Balrog_ | blagblagblag.org | Apr 02 01:56 |
| _Hicham_ | Love : are u a CS student? | Apr 02 01:57 |
| Love | I prefer APT over RPM, but whatever floats your boat. | Apr 02 01:57 |
| Love | I feel bad for those boor Ubuntu developer’s though. | Apr 02 01:57 |
| Love | Press is hitting them hard lately. | Apr 02 01:57 |
| _Hicham_ | why? | Apr 02 01:57 |
| Love | Seems to almost be some grassroots movements going around in user forums. | Apr 02 01:57 |
| Love | BSD communities and the like. | Apr 02 01:57 |
| _Hicham_ | why? | Apr 02 01:57 |
| Love | One of them spammed my blog yesterday, in fact. | Apr 02 01:57 |
| schestowitz | Nice new article about Free Software in Massachusetts today BTW: http://www.masshightech.com/stories/2009/03/2… | Apr 02 01:58 |
| Love | Gave me a link to this: http://linsux.org/index.php?topic=948.0 | Apr 02 01:58 |
