04.04.09
IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 3rd, 2009 – Part 1
To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| oiaohm | Catch you guys around. | Apr 03 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Apr 03 00:01 | |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm left | Apr 03 00:01 |
| _Hicham_ | no one to talk to again | Apr 03 00:02 |
| Balrog_ | me? | Apr 03 00:02 |
| _Hicham_ | did u get Conficker effect Balrog_? | Apr 03 00:04 |
| Balrog_ | _Hicham_: you mean DNS not working? yes, I have | Apr 03 00:04 |
| Balrog_ | site was up going through a PHProxy | Apr 03 00:04 |
| Balrog_ | (well not fully broken dns) | Apr 03 00:05 |
| Balrog_ | just that certain URLs wouldn’t resolve | Apr 03 00:05 |
| _Hicham_ | svchost.exe is the problem | Apr 03 00:06 |
| schestowitz | Groklaw: Time to Get Mono and Moonlight Out of GNU/Linux < http://www.groklaw.net/article… > | Apr 03 00:06 |
| _Hicham_ | MS should remove this services host | Apr 03 00:06 |
| Balrog_ | _Hicham_: it was on a Windows machine and on a Mac | Apr 03 00:06 |
| Balrog_ | even my Gentoo box wouldn’t resolve | Apr 03 00:06 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : did u try Mono? | Apr 03 00:07 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: some DNS services fell over | Apr 03 00:07 |
| schestowitz | DDOS | Apr 03 00:07 |
| schestowitz | Our too some while ago | Apr 03 00:07 |
| schestowitz | Register.com knocked down too | Apr 03 00:07 |
| schestowitz | Will write about it tomorrow | Apr 03 00:07 |
| Balrog_ | well the DNS server worked | Apr 03 00:07 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : did u get a DDOS? | Apr 03 00:07 |
| Balrog_ | just certain sites wouldn’t resolve | Apr 03 00:07 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: no, never used mono | Apr 03 00:08 |
| schestowitz | It was put on some Ubuntu boxes, I removed them | Apr 03 00:08 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowit : the register works now | Apr 03 00:08 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: that’s another site | Apr 03 00:08 |
| schestowitz | Wait.. | Apr 03 00:08 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/n… http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/… | Apr 03 00:09 |
| Balrog_ | theregister.co.uk works | Apr 03 00:09 |
| Balrog_ | theregister.com redirects to it | Apr 03 00:09 |
| schestowitz | if only people knew how redundant it is to post in a blog not just links but also personal stories of no use to anyone, e.g. http://www.sutor.com/newsite/bl… | Apr 03 00:09 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: not that one. | Apr 03 00:10 |
| schestowitz | rgister.com | Apr 03 00:10 |
| schestowitz | not THEregister | Apr 03 00:10 |
| schestowitz | brb | Apr 03 00:10 |
| _Hicham_ | ok | Apr 03 00:10 |
| _Hicham_ | register.com is working also now | Apr 03 00:10 |
| _Hicham_ | silent room | Apr 03 00:22 |
| _Hicham_ | ok i am gonna write some false news again | Apr 03 00:25 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz is planning to enforce drm in collaboration with Microsoft | Apr 03 00:25 |
| Balrog_ | lol | Apr 03 00:26 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz violates GPL many times | Apr 03 00:26 |
| Balrog_ | heh | Apr 03 00:27 |
| Balrog_ | _Hicham_: better news there is | Apr 03 00:27 |
| _Hicham_ | Balrog_ : write these news then | Apr 03 00:29 |
| schestowitz | OK, I’m back | Apr 03 00:29 |
| schestowitz | me? gpl-violation and drm?!?!!  |
Apr 03 00:29 |
| _Hicham_ | welcome back schestowitz | Apr 03 00:29 |
| _Hicham_ | yes | Apr 03 00:29 |
| schestowitz | Thanks. | Apr 03 00:29 |
| _Hicham_ | u know | Apr 03 00:29 |
| _Hicham_ | kinda April first days | Apr 03 00:29 |
| schestowitz | Now it’s DayS? | Apr 03 00:30 |
| _Hicham_ | do I have the right to write such things? | Apr 03 00:30 |
| _Hicham_ | ok, I think I am gonna write some other false news | Apr 03 00:31 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz is blocking people from migrating to Linux, because he is bribed by Microsoft | Apr 03 00:32 |
| _Hicham_ | the amount of bribes is more than £10000/month | Apr 03 00:33 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz sells closed source patented software http://www.royschestowitz.com/pro… | Apr 03 00:35 |
| schestowitz | No, I don’t do that | Apr 03 00:38 |
| schestowitz | Microsott can’t afford bribes, either | Apr 03 00:38 |
| schestowitz | It’s running out of options | Apr 03 00:38 |
| schestowitz | It bribes Mac bloggers now | Apr 03 00:38 |
| Balrog_ | schestowitz: which ones? | Apr 03 00:38 |
| schestowitz | Let me get the link | Apr 03 00:38 |
| Balrog_ | the iphone / office thing? | Apr 03 00:38 |
| Balrog_ | I smell vaporware | Apr 03 00:38 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/22/… | Apr 03 00:39 |
| _Hicham_ | the network-manager is really great | Apr 03 00:42 |
| _Hicham_ | they really did a great job | Apr 03 00:42 |
| _Hicham_ | false news again : schestowitz is to announce a new anti Linux battle | Apr 03 00:46 |
| Balrog_ | schestowitz: doesn’t say which blogs :/ | Apr 03 00:46 |
| _Hicham_ | I am the one who bribed the bloggers | Apr 03 00:47 |
| _Hicham_ | I just bought MS last night | Apr 03 00:47 |
| Balrog_ | yeah, as if you have that kind of money 9.9 | Apr 03 00:48 |
| _Hicham_ | I am gonna buy a new yaught tommorow, and I will take Roy on a trip with me | Apr 03 00:48 |
| _Hicham_ | a trip around the world | Apr 03 00:48 |
| schestowitz | Trips around the world are siciphic | Apr 03 00:51 |
| schestowitz | Sicifus (however they called him in Greece) | Apr 03 00:51 |
| _Hicham_ | what does sicific means? | Apr 03 00:53 |
| schestowitz | There’s the story about it. Let me find it | Apr 03 00:54 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus | Apr 03 00:55 |
| schestowitz | I didn’t know the spelling, just vocally | Apr 03 00:55 |
| _Hicham_ | thanks for the word | Apr 03 00:56 |
| _Hicham_ | I am really learning sthg new everytime I log in here | Apr 03 00:56 |
| _Hicham_ | can I continue my false news Roy? | Apr 03 00:57 |
| schestowitz | Cool! | Apr 03 01:00 |
| schestowitz | Well, no | Apr 03 01:00 |
| schestowitz | Cool abour learning | Apr 03 01:00 |
| schestowitz | Not teasers | Apr 03 01:00 |
| _Hicham_ | why? | Apr 03 01:00 |
| schestowitz | it’s adding little substance | Apr 03 01:01 |
| _Hicham_ | u don’t like the false news? | Apr 03 01:01 |
| _Hicham_ | http://llevonttocyob.com | Apr 03 01:02 |
| _Hicham_ | that would be my future website | Apr 03 01:02 |
| _Hicham_ | well, humor add a lot | Apr 03 01:04 |
| _Hicham_ | we can’t live without humor | Apr 03 01:04 |
| _Hicham_ | though british people can | Apr 03 01:05 |
| *schestowitz looks | Apr 03 01:06 | |
| schestowitz | Site/domain not there | Apr 03 01:06 |
| schestowitz | I now look closely | Apr 03 01:06 |
| schestowitz | Inverse | Apr 03 01:06 |
| schestowitz | anagram….. | Apr 03 01:06 |
| schestowitz | All opposite… stance too | Apr 03 01:07 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft=good; gpl=bad | Apr 03 01:07 |
| _Hicham_ | Microsoft is great, schestowitz also | Apr 03 01:07 |
| Balrog_ | that’s backwards | Apr 03 01:07 |
| Balrog_ |  |
Apr 03 01:07 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz is working tightly with MS to resolve pending issues | Apr 03 01:09 |
| amarsh04 | back later, rebooting into new kernel | Apr 03 01:10 |
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| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : is GPL good? | Apr 03 01:14 |
| schestowitz | Yes, but _Hicham_… let’s investigate news and analyse them. | Apr 03 01:15 |
| _Hicham_ | ok | Apr 03 01:16 |
| schestowitz | Let’s make constructive discussion instead of banter | Apr 03 01:16 |
| _Hicham_ | sorry for interrupting u | Apr 03 01:16 |
| schestowitz | I’m posting to USENET | Apr 03 01:16 |
| schestowitz | So I check IRC once in 5 mins or so | Apr 03 01:16 |
| Balrog_ | schestowitz: is there any free (zero-cost) usenet connection? | Apr 03 01:16 |
| Balrog_ | (except the one from my ISP, which is filtered) | Apr 03 01:16 |
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| PeterKraus | wank | Apr 03 01:25 |
| schestowitz | Huh?? | Apr 03 01:25 |
| PeterKraus | mr hicham | Apr 03 01:25 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: how is it filtered? | Apr 03 01:25 |
| schestowitz | Google Groups can be used, but the GUI sucks. | Apr 03 01:26 |
| Balrog_ | yeah but I want FULL USENET access | Apr 03 01:27 |
| Balrog_ | including stuff like alt.binaries  |
Apr 03 01:27 |
| schestowitz | mozarella is a good bet | Apr 03 01:30 |
| Balrog_ | that’s a usenet server? | Apr 03 01:32 |
| schestowitz | Well, supposed to be. I never used it | Apr 03 01:32 |
| Balrog_ | hrm ok. | Apr 03 01:32 |
| schestowitz | Many trolls use it | Apr 03 01:32 |
| Balrog_ | where can you get unfiltered usenet acess anymore? | Apr 03 01:32 |
| Balrog_ | I can’t find mozarella :/ | Apr 03 01:34 |
| schestowitz | http://www.tech-archive.net/Archive/Wi… | Apr 03 01:44 |
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| schestowitz | See latest groklaw article on mono and share. PJ agrees that it needs to go. | Apr 03 01:49 |
| schestowitz | …just a prank regarding Red Hat | Apr 03 01:56 |
| schestowitz | If Microsoft bought Novell, it wouldn’t come as a surprise < http://www.itwire.com/conten… > | Apr 03 01:56 |
| schestowitz | Someone from Debian corresponded with me today about getting Mono and Moonlight removed. | Apr 03 02:01 |
| Balrog_ | any luck? | Apr 03 02:02 |
| _Hicham_ | is it really discussed in there? | Apr 03 02:03 |
| _Hicham_ | is there any link? | Apr 03 02:03 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: not done yet | Apr 03 02:03 |
| schestowitz | I’ll let you know | Apr 03 02:03 |
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| Balrog_ | thanks. | Apr 03 02:03 |
| _Hicham_ | wb MinceR | Apr 03 02:04 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : any link? | Apr 03 02:04 |
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| schestowitz | _Hicham_: not yet | Apr 03 02:10 |
| schestowitz | How long before MS Soapbox dies? | Apr 03 02:12 |
| schestowitz | Place bets, starting at $50 |
Apr 03 02:13 |
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| yuhong | BTW, what did you think of my links on cloud lock-in I posted a few days ago? | Apr 03 04:36 |
| yuhong | Anyone there? | Apr 03 04:37 |
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| Omar87 | Hey guys. | Apr 03 06:04 |
| Omar87 | Look at what I found: http://bglinux.com/default.aspx | Apr 03 06:04 |
| Omar87 | And if you read carefully, it should remind you of a known website for a known distribution that starts with the letter “U”.. | Apr 03 06:06 |
| oiaohm | Idea of ubuntu was not new when Ubuntu took it up. | Apr 03 06:13 |
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| ANAJALI] | HI | Apr 03 07:46 |
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| schestowitz | Morning | Apr 03 08:47 |
| schestowitz | Site seems to be down  |
Apr 03 08:56 |
| schestowitz | OK, it’s back | Apr 03 09:09 |
| schestowitz | US states may seek Microsoft anti-trust extension < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/… > | Apr 03 09:12 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJjWC1FlA20 Related to ACTA | Apr 03 09:17 |
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| MinceR | geekings | Apr 03 09:22 |
| schestowitz | Re: Iraq invasion. “But then we can just be honest and say, ‘look we’re a bunch of Nazis’” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH… | Apr 03 09:25 |
| DaemonFC | sure, when you remove all of Novells code and distribute a kernel free of it | Apr 03 09:28 |
| DaemonFC | you might have credibility | Apr 03 09:28 |
| DaemonFC | good luck | Apr 03 09:28 |
| DaemonFC | statistically, that’s like one in every 5 patches going back a number of years | Apr 03 09:29 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: are you using only windows? | Apr 03 09:29 |
| DaemonFC | and of course this is just the kernel | Apr 03 09:29 |
| DaemonFC | you also should remove all their GNOME/KDE contribs | Apr 03 09:30 |
| DaemonFC | and their patches to the toolkits | Apr 03 09:30 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: please, please don’t start with the aggravation again. | Apr 03 09:30 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: it’s called “trolling”, not “aggravation”. :> | Apr 03 09:30 |
| DaemonFC | you couldn’t build a distribution free of Novell code at this point | Apr 03 09:30 |
| DaemonFC | and if you have a ethical problem with Red Hat too, your problem swells to damn near half the kernel | Apr 03 09:31 |
| DaemonFC | if you lost Novell+Red Hat, Linux would be irreparably crippled | Apr 03 09:32 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: for the first time in like a year I had to “kick” with pressure from others; don’t make me do it again. If you come here to cause trouble, then you’re simply asking for some. | Apr 03 09:32 |
| DaemonFC | how do you reply to that? | Apr 03 09:32 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: if you are using linux, you should shut up about credibility. | Apr 03 09:32 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: also, if you’re using the internet, you should shut up about credibility. | Apr 03 09:32 |
| DaemonFC | I’m not the one that claimed to have a ethics problem with their code | Apr 03 09:33 |
| DaemonFC | I’m just pointing out that you are quite happily using it | Apr 03 09:33 |
| DaemonFC | lots of it, every day | Apr 03 09:33 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: well, your favorite novell has lied that the ubuntu devs made no contributions | Apr 03 09:33 |
| DaemonFC | they don’t contribute much | Apr 03 09:34 |
| DaemonFC | Nvidia makes more kernel contributions than Ubuntu | Apr 03 09:34 |
| DaemonFC | that’s absolutely true | Apr 03 09:34 |
| DaemonFC | and the contributions Ubuntu makes are usually trivial | Apr 03 09:34 |
| DaemonFC | one liners and such | Apr 03 09:34 |
| MinceR | and you can prove that, right? | Apr 03 09:34 |
| DaemonFC | sure | Apr 03 09:34 |
| DaemonFC | look at the change logs | Apr 03 09:34 |
| DaemonFC | and scan for ubuntu or canonical emails | Apr 03 09:35 |
| DaemonFC | easy | Apr 03 09:35 |
| MinceR | see, that’s the mistake your friends at novell made, too | Apr 03 09:35 |
| DaemonFC | you’ll not find more than a handful | Apr 03 09:35 |
| DaemonFC | no, I used the method Ben Collins said | Apr 03 09:35 |
| MinceR | expecting that everyone uses their ubuntu/canonical address | Apr 03 09:35 |
| DaemonFC | search Ubuntu and Canonical | Apr 03 09:35 |
| DaemonFC | they do | Apr 03 09:35 |
| DaemonFC | if they are on the payroll, they use those emails | Apr 03 09:35 |
| DaemonFC | otherwise they are freelancers | Apr 03 09:36 |
| MinceR | and you know this how? | Apr 03 09:36 |
| DaemonFC | andbelong in the “individuals” list | Apr 03 09:36 |
| MinceR | do you work for canonical perhaps? | Apr 03 09:36 |
| MinceR | (fat chance) | Apr 03 09:36 |
| DaemonFC | Ben Collins had on his blog | Apr 03 09:36 |
| DaemonFC | he said search Ubuntu and Canonical, and sure enough they had made about 100 patches between 2.6.15 and 2.6.27 | Apr 03 09:36 |
| DaemonFC | where Fedora made about 30,000 | Apr 03 09:37 |
| MinceR | so if you hate ubuntu and canonical so much, remove their patches | Apr 03 09:37 |
| MinceR | by your own reasoning | Apr 03 09:37 |
| DaemonFC | so Ubuntu does not contribute, they could die off and kernel development would not suffer at all | Apr 03 09:37 |
| MinceR | also, since you hate RMS, better find another userland | Apr 03 09:37 |
| MinceR | i don’t see how we leapt from “about 100 patches between 2.6.15 and 2.6.27″ to “does not contribute” | Apr 03 09:38 |
| DaemonFC | over 75% of the kernel development is done by paid programmers workign at companies that have an interest in Linux | Apr 03 09:38 |
| DaemonFC | 100 is insignificant, and like I said, mostly trivial one liners | Apr 03 09:38 |
| MinceR | well, go rewrite them, then | Apr 03 09:38 |
| MinceR | if you had half a clue about software development, you’d now that oneliners aren’t necessarily trivial | Apr 03 09:39 |
| DaemonFC | either someone would have anyway, or they were not all that important and jsut affecting some oddball use case | Apr 03 09:39 |
| DaemonFC | that was important to them | Apr 03 09:39 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu is just a leech | Apr 03 09:39 |
| DaemonFC | they don’t do anything for upstream projects | Apr 03 09:40 |
| DaemonFC | and they could die with no impact | Apr 03 09:40 |
| DaemonFC | they are passive consumers of various projects, and occasionally they may turn in the odd patch or two | Apr 03 09:41 |
| DaemonFC | I think they made like 2 patches to X.org for example, since 2004 | Apr 03 09:41 |
| DaemonFC | they may throw together a workable distribution, but they mean little ro nothing for the hundreds of projects companies like Red Hat drive | Apr 03 09:42 |
| DaemonFC | from an end user standpoint, Ubuntu is desirable over Debian because Debian Stable consists of obsolete software | Apr 03 09:43 |
| DaemonFC | and thats nice, yes | Apr 03 09:43 |
| MinceR | or perhaps you’re the only nutcase who whines about this | Apr 03 09:44 |
| DaemonFC | not really, it’s quite disturbing that such a popular distro has such an incompetent kernel team | Apr 03 09:44 |
| MinceR | also, it’s not like the whole point of a distribution dev team is to put together a workable distribution, no sir! | Apr 03 09:44 |
| DaemonFC | they’re allowing Ext4 in Jaunty without backporting patches that prevent data corruption | Apr 03 09:45 |
| DaemonFC | for example | Apr 03 09:45 |
| DaemonFC | so unless you make your own kernel with those patches, you’re risking data | Apr 03 09:45 |
| DaemonFC | Ext4 has a problem that I call the 60 second window of death | Apr 03 09:46 |
| DaemonFC | and the patches to fix it landed yesterday in the 2.6.30 development branch | Apr 03 09:46 |
| MinceR | or you could choose to use ext3 | Apr 03 09:48 |
| DaemonFC | Ext3 sucks | Apr 03 09:48 |
| MinceR | it doesn’t suck as much as the unfixed ext4 | Apr 03 09:48 |
| DaemonFC | or maybe I built my own kernel | Apr 03 09:48 |
| DaemonFC | because the new behavior is not an on disk format change |
Apr 03 09:48 |
| MinceR | or maybe you could stop whining and use windows vista | Apr 03 09:48 |
| MinceR | with ntfs | Apr 03 09:48 |
| MinceR | and suffer | Apr 03 09:48 |
| DaemonFC | NTFS is preferable to Ext3 | Apr 03 09:49 |
| MinceR | but at least all code comes from people you trust and admire | Apr 03 09:49 |
| DaemonFC | from a technical standpoint | Apr 03 09:49 |
| MinceR | i’m not going to ask you to elaborate, because i already know you’re full of shit | Apr 03 09:49 |
| DaemonFC | I was using XFS to avoid Ext3 for years | Apr 03 09:49 |
| DaemonFC | just cause Ext3 is awful | Apr 03 09:49 |
| MinceR | lol xfs | Apr 03 09:50 |
| MinceR | why don’t you just keep your files in /dev/null? | Apr 03 09:50 |
| DaemonFC | XFS is much more advanced | Apr 03 09:50 |
| MinceR | yes, it has advanced methods to destroy data | Apr 03 09:50 |
| DaemonFC | Ext3 belongs in the mid 1990s | Apr 03 09:50 |
| DaemonFC | it was obsolete before is was made | Apr 03 09:51 |
| MinceR | and ntfs belongs on an xfs filesystem, in a file you’re keeping open for writing when a power outage happens | Apr 03 09:51 |
| MinceR | so does xfs | Apr 03 09:51 |
| DaemonFC | no, that’s not an XFS problem | Apr 03 09:51 |
| DaemonFC | and it was fixed years ago | Apr 03 09:51 |
| DaemonFC | the problem is poorly written apps liek Firefox | Apr 03 09:51 |
| MinceR | it is, it’s called “metadata-only journaling with no ordered writes” | Apr 03 09:51 |
| DaemonFC | that don’t request data be committed to disk | Apr 03 09:51 |
| DaemonFC | no, there’s nothing wrong with XFS | Apr 03 09:52 |
| DaemonFC | the problem is bad applications like Firefox | Apr 03 09:52 |
| MinceR | i know, the problem is users expecting to have their data retained | Apr 03 09:52 |
| DaemonFC | what happens is the app figures you use Ext3 and it figures Ext3 will fsync every 5 seconds | Apr 03 09:53 |
| DaemonFC | so the programmer is lazy and does not request a commit | Apr 03 09:53 |
| MinceR | apps should just fsync() after each byte written! | Apr 03 09:53 |
| DaemonFC | so the system crashes and the data was not committed | Apr 03 09:53 |
| DaemonFC | it’s a bad app | Apr 03 09:53 |
| DaemonFC | like Firefox | Apr 03 09:53 |
| DaemonFC | not a file system problem | Apr 03 09:53 |
| DaemonFC | the fs never got the data | Apr 03 09:53 |
| DaemonFC | cause the app was beign stupid | Apr 03 09:53 |
| MinceR | yet ext3 magically manages to write it | Apr 03 09:53 |
| MinceR | i think i like that kind of magic | Apr 03 09:54 |
| DaemonFC | Ext3 is doing inappropriate behavior | Apr 03 09:54 |
| DaemonFC | it slows the file system | Apr 03 09:54 |
| MinceR | yes, not losing my data is inappropriate | Apr 03 09:54 |
| DaemonFC | to compensate for bad programs | Apr 03 09:54 |
| DaemonFC | like firefox | Apr 03 09:54 |
| MinceR | i don’t see how writing every 5 seconds slows down the filesystem | Apr 03 09:54 |
| MinceR | especially compared to apps randomly fsync()-ing all the time | Apr 03 09:54 |
| DaemonFC | slows down operations on larger files | Apr 03 09:55 |
| DaemonFC | when it has to fsync every 5 seconds | Apr 03 09:55 |
| DaemonFC | it’s a hack to compensate for incompetent software | Apr 03 09:55 |
| DaemonFC | like Firefox | Apr 03 09:55 |
| MinceR | then just use ext4 | Apr 03 09:55 |
| DaemonFC | users should be bitchign at Mozilla | Apr 03 09:55 |
| DaemonFC | not the XFS people | Apr 03 09:55 |
| MinceR | it gladly compromises file integrity for a little performance | Apr 03 09:56 |
| MinceR | so does XFS | Apr 03 09:56 |
| DaemonFC | it’s not the file system’s responsibility | Apr 03 09:56 |
| DaemonFC | that’s like saying the city should pay a cop to follow you personally | Apr 03 09:56 |
| DaemonFC | to make sure you don’t get mugged | Apr 03 09:56 |
| DaemonFC | |
Apr 03 09:56 |
| DaemonFC | it may be nice and safe for you | Apr 03 09:56 |
| DaemonFC | but it costs resources | Apr 03 09:56 |
| MinceR | they might as well do so, since they’ve prohibited me from carrying a gun to do so myself | Apr 03 09:57 |
| DaemonFC | there’s no such law | Apr 03 09:57 |
| MinceR | there’s no gun prohibition? which alternate universe are you living in? | Apr 03 09:57 |
| DaemonFC | the crazy Republicans will make sure people can carry deadly weapons around and get drunk and shoot people | Apr 03 09:57 |
| oiaohm | It filesystem for task. | Apr 03 09:57 |
| MinceR | i’m not in the usa | Apr 03 09:57 |
| MinceR | and even there you have limitations on it | Apr 03 09:57 |
| oiaohm | There are many places were ext3 is good or bad as there are good or bad for xfs | Apr 03 09:57 |
| DaemonFC | What I’m saying is the resources expended are insane | Apr 03 09:58 |
| DaemonFC | when the apps should be written properly | Apr 03 09:58 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: crazy people like you claim the state can defend its people | Apr 03 09:58 |
| MinceR | obviously, it can’t | Apr 03 09:58 |
| DaemonFC | nothing can | Apr 03 09:58 |
| oiaohm | The way ext4 is going is interesting. | Apr 03 09:58 |
| DaemonFC | having more armed idiots makes things worse | Apr 03 09:58 |
| oiaohm | Adding a flag to the application process. | Apr 03 09:58 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: because authorities aren’t idiots? | Apr 03 09:58 |
| oiaohm | So you tag bad applications. | Apr 03 09:58 |
| oiaohm | So you don’t get data loss. | Apr 03 09:58 |
| MinceR | policemen aren’t idiots? other armed forces aren’t mostly composed of idiots? | Apr 03 09:58 |
| DaemonFC | you obviously have no idea the kind of people that can get weapons here | Apr 03 09:59 |
| DaemonFC | legally | Apr 03 09:59 |
| oiaohm | policemen and armed forces only normally seam like idiots due to poor training. | Apr 03 09:59 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: i think it would be more useful to stop pointing at POSIX and looking for excuses to lose data | Apr 03 09:59 |
| DaemonFC | it makes it so you can’t leave the house without having a gun yourself | Apr 03 09:59 |
| DaemonFC | it just creates an arms race | Apr 03 09:59 |
| DaemonFC | it doesn’t solve anything | Apr 03 09:59 |
| MinceR | no, they seem like idiots because most people are idiots | Apr 03 09:59 |
| MinceR | and they’re no exception | Apr 03 10:00 |
| MinceR | the arms race is there anyway | Apr 03 10:00 |
| oiaohm | Losing some data would be worth while. | Apr 03 10:00 |
| oiaohm | Like temp files. | Apr 03 10:00 |
| MinceR | but only criminals and the state (which is a criminal organization by itself) takes part in it | Apr 03 10:00 |
| DaemonFC | Losing data isn’t good, but it’s not the file system’s fault | Apr 03 10:00 |
| DaemonFC | it is a bad application | Apr 03 10:00 |
| MinceR | while oppressed civilians suffer | Apr 03 10:00 |
| DaemonFC | people incorrectly blame the file system | Apr 03 10:00 |
| MinceR | if you want performance above all, just use /dev/null to store your data | Apr 03 10:01 |
| MinceR | it will be really fast, i promise | Apr 03 10:01 |
| DaemonFC | well, they encouraged sloppy programming | Apr 03 10:01 |
| DaemonFC | with ext3 | Apr 03 10:01 |
| DaemonFC | and they got it | Apr 03 10:01 |
| zer0c00l | /dev/null  |
Apr 03 10:01 |
| DaemonFC | and good luck EVER getting rid of it now | Apr 03 10:01 |
| MinceR | i’m sure those apps worked entirely differently before ext3 | Apr 03 10:01 |
| MinceR | oh wait | Apr 03 10:01 |
| DaemonFC | |
Apr 03 10:01 |
| MinceR | no, they didn’t! | Apr 03 10:01 |
| DaemonFC | anyway, the XFS file system was hacked to work kind of like Ext3 over a year ago in that aspect | Apr 03 10:02 |
| DaemonFC | so not, it’s not going to munch your data on crash now | Apr 03 10:02 |
| DaemonFC | any more than any other fs | Apr 03 10:02 |
| Omar87 | Guys, did you see this? http://bglinux.com/default.aspx | Apr 03 10:03 |
| Omar87 | What the hell would it mean? | Apr 03 10:03 |
| DaemonFC | some idiot that hinks he’s going to be new | Apr 03 10:03 |
| DaemonFC | clever | Apr 03 10:03 |
| DaemonFC | or funny | Apr 03 10:03 |
| DaemonFC | just a guess | Apr 03 10:04 |
| Omar87 | Plus, they’ve literally copy-pasted what’s on the Ubuntu website. | Apr 03 10:04 |
| zer0c00l | hehehe billg linux | Apr 03 10:04 |
| zer0c00l | |
Apr 03 10:04 |
| DaemonFC | probably some 14 year old | Apr 03 10:04 |
| Omar87 | lol |
Apr 03 10:04 |
| DaemonFC | stole mommy’s credit card | Apr 03 10:04 |
| DaemonFC | and built the page with MS Frontpage | Apr 03 10:05 |
| zer0c00l | copy of ubuntu promise | Apr 03 10:05 |
| zer0c00l | |
Apr 03 10:05 |
| DaemonFC | and some clipart | Apr 03 10:05 |
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| Omar871 | zer0c00l: Exactly | Apr 03 10:07 |
| MinceR | he got late for the Microsoft Linux joke | Apr 03 10:12 |
| MinceR | (about 4 distros late, 1 of which is already dead) | Apr 03 10:12 |
| DaemonFC | I kind of want to know what the hell is going on with git | Apr 03 10:17 |
| DaemonFC | it doesn’t update Torvalds’ tree and then bam, everything at once at the end of the day | Apr 03 10:17 |
| MinceR | works for me | Apr 03 10:18 |
| MinceR | though i don’t operate on the linux source much | Apr 03 10:18 |
| MinceR | |
Apr 03 10:18 |
| MinceR | (i mostly use it on other projects) | Apr 03 10:19 |
| DaemonFC | yesterday it didn’t even spit out a patch | Apr 03 10:19 |
| DaemonFC | something weird is going on | Apr 03 10:19 |
| DaemonFC | some days you get no patch, some days you get two | Apr 03 10:20 |
| DaemonFC | sometimes 3 | Apr 03 10:20 |
| DaemonFC | I’ve been following git kernels cause some of my hardware only started working right in the last week | Apr 03 10:21 |
| DaemonFC | and I’ve had this system since last year | Apr 03 10:21 |
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| schestowitz | Apple is SOOO open… http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/… (Apple cracks down on rogue app stores) | Apr 03 10:24 |
| MinceR | closed platform | Apr 03 10:24 |
| MinceR | worse than most featurephones, on which you can upload any j2me app you want | Apr 03 10:25 |
| MinceR | without jailbreaking them | Apr 03 10:25 |
| schestowitz | Jailbreak?!! They’d brick you.  |
Apr 03 10:31 |
| MinceR | even my old samsung sgh-c100 is more open than that apple crap | Apr 03 10:32 |
| oiaohm | Who said closed is the only type that can be anti-jailbreak. | Apr 03 10:33 |
| oiaohm | Try breaking a tivo some time. | Apr 03 10:33 |
| MinceR | |
Apr 03 10:36 |
| MinceR | it’s not anti-jailbreak i’m talking about, though | Apr 03 10:36 |
| MinceR | it’s that you don’t _need_ to jailbreak it to put your own apps on it | Apr 03 10:37 |
| DaemonFC | so? | Apr 03 10:40 |
| DaemonFC | If you buy something from them, you should expect what you agree to | Apr 03 10:41 |
| DaemonFC | simple | Apr 03 10:41 |
| DaemonFC | you wouldn’t sign a mortgage them complain that the bank won’t give you the house for free | Apr 03 10:41 |
| DaemonFC | *then | Apr 03 10:42 |
| MinceR | see, that’s why i don’t buy anything from apple | Apr 03 10:42 |
| DaemonFC | well, I don’t know why you’d sign a contract then complain when you brea kthe agreement | Apr 03 10:43 |
| DaemonFC | and they lock you out of the device | Apr 03 10:43 |
| MinceR | do they also give my money back then? :> | Apr 03 10:44 |
| DaemonFC | either fulfill your end | Apr 03 10:44 |
| DaemonFC | or don’t sign the damned thing | Apr 03 10:44 |
| MinceR | or ending the contract works as far as it’s convenient for them? | Apr 03 10:44 |
| MinceR | bbl, food | Apr 03 10:44 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: You fulfilling the agreement is part of the payment | Apr 03 10:44 |
| oiaohm | Remember lot of devices are sold without having to sign contract in advance covering like phone lockins. | Apr 03 10:45 |
| DaemonFC | AT&T is subsidizing the phone | Apr 03 10:45 |
| DaemonFC | so until you end your 2 year AT&T agreement, I don’t believe it’s your phone | Apr 03 10:45 |
| oiaohm | They don’t legally have to tell you in many places that you are locked in. | Apr 03 10:45 |
| oiaohm | For good. | Apr 03 10:45 |
| oiaohm | Not just for the 2 years term. | Apr 03 10:45 |
| DaemonFC | the contract specifies that you are agreeing to 2 years of AT&T’s network | Apr 03 10:45 |
| oiaohm | Yes | Apr 03 10:45 |
| DaemonFC | and furether agree not to modify the phone | Apr 03 10:45 |
| oiaohm | But application lockin last longer than 2 years. | Apr 03 10:46 |
| DaemonFC | so unless you don’t speak English, you have no excuse | Apr 03 10:46 |
| DaemonFC | well, the phone relies on proprietary software that is obscured with encryption | Apr 03 10:46 |
| oiaohm | People who bought phone out right have been locked out as well. | Apr 03 10:46 |
| DaemonFC | thus making it subject to the DMCA | Apr 03 10:46 |
| DaemonFC | not knowing the law is not a defense | Apr 03 10:46 |
| DaemonFC | you may not agree with the law | Apr 03 10:47 |
| DaemonFC | that doesn’t give you the right to break it | Apr 03 10:47 |
| DaemonFC | nobody said you have to buy the stupid thing | Apr 03 10:47 |
| oiaohm | Selling a device under without telling people the pit falls is also against the law. | Apr 03 10:47 |
| DaemonFC | no it isn’t | Apr 03 10:47 |
| DaemonFC | you’re an adult | Apr 03 10:47 |
| DaemonFC | you’re expected to know what you agree to | Apr 03 10:48 |
| oiaohm | Its a breach of fair trading here. | Apr 03 10:48 |
| DaemonFC | your argument would never hold up in any court | Apr 03 10:48 |
| oiaohm | Australian courts yes. | Apr 03 10:48 |
| oiaohm | USA most likely not. | Apr 03 10:48 |
| DaemonFC | caveat emptor | Apr 03 10:48 |
| DaemonFC | Let The Buyer Beware | Apr 03 10:48 |
| oiaohm | We have fair trading laws to protect Buyer from suspect sales. | Apr 03 10:49 |
| DaemonFC | so if I shoot someone in Australia | Apr 03 10:49 |
| DaemonFC | then claim I didn’t know it was illegal | Apr 03 10:49 |
| DaemonFC | I’m off the hook? | Apr 03 10:49 |
| oiaohm | Not exactly the seller of item would have breached law if they don’t inform you of the lock in. | Apr 03 10:49 |
| DaemonFC | why would any reasonable court system accept such obvious bull | Apr 03 10:49 |
| DaemonFC | well, if you don’t know the DMCA and violate it | Apr 03 10:50 |
| oiaohm | Fair trading does not require court case. Breach of fair trading is loss of right to trade. | Apr 03 10:50 |
| DaemonFC | it’s jsut like any other law | Apr 03 10:50 |
| DaemonFC | ignorance is not an excuse | Apr 03 10:50 |
| oiaohm | There are conditions we can break DMCA. | Apr 03 10:50 |
| oiaohm | Take regional coding that is purely legal to brake here because it is illegal. | Apr 03 10:51 |
| DaemonFC | I have no problem with the DMCA | Apr 03 10:51 |
| DaemonFC | because I do not depend on anything it covers | Apr 03 10:51 |
| DaemonFC | nor do I have to buy anything it covers | Apr 03 10:51 |
| oiaohm | Breaking device to retask is also legal here. | Apr 03 10:51 |
| oiaohm | Note retask. | Apr 03 10:52 |
| oiaohm | Not breaking to use as it was attented. | Apr 03 10:52 |
| DaemonFC | If they were restricting my use of oxygen, I’d care | Apr 03 10:52 |
| DaemonFC | but a Metallica MP3? | Apr 03 10:52 |
| DaemonFC | to hell with them | Apr 03 10:52 |
| oiaohm | So yes recycling a iphone into something else is purely legal under the australian laws but illegal under usa. | Apr 03 10:52 |
| DaemonFC | a phone? | Apr 03 10:52 |
| DaemonFC | to hell with them | Apr 03 10:53 |
| DaemonFC | a copy of Windows | Apr 03 10:53 |
| DaemonFC | to hell with them | Apr 03 10:53 |
| DaemonFC | get it? | Apr 03 10:53 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Apr 03 10:53 |
| DaemonFC | Who cares what Apple does? | Apr 03 10:53 |
| DaemonFC | all their crap got them with me is a lost sale | Apr 03 10:53 |
| oiaohm | Xbox360 mod chips are legal here. | Apr 03 10:54 |
| oiaohm | Because you are legally allowed to use backups of software. | Apr 03 10:54 |
| DaemonFC | I have no problem with the concept of proprietary software | Apr 03 10:54 |
| DaemonFC | What I have a problem with is the restriction of a device so you have to use that software | Apr 03 10:54 |
| oiaohm | We have a lot of little protection laws. | Apr 03 10:54 |
| oiaohm | That override DMCA protections. | Apr 03 10:55 |
| DaemonFC | there’s some looholes in the DMCA | Apr 03 10:55 |
| oiaohm | Australia there are lots. | Apr 03 10:55 |
| DaemonFC | like, you can do certain reverse engineering for compatibility | Apr 03 10:55 |
| oiaohm | Like legally we are allowed to transcode to another formats. | Apr 03 10:55 |
| DaemonFC | so this Mono runtime is in kind of a legal gray area | Apr 03 10:55 |
| oiaohm | If we have a device that the DRM protected media will not play on. | Apr 03 10:56 |
| DaemonFC | A lot of it is just fine because it implements an ISO or IEEE standard | Apr 03 10:56 |
| oiaohm | We have lots and lots and lots of little protections. | Apr 03 10:56 |
| DaemonFC | but there’s some Windows specific functions that MS has patents on | Apr 03 10:56 |
| DaemonFC | and Mono includes those too | Apr 03 10:56 |
| oiaohm | MS has patents on FAT | Apr 03 10:57 |
| DaemonFC | debatable | Apr 03 10:57 |
| oiaohm | They still have them | Apr 03 10:57 |
| DaemonFC | depends on which version of FAT | Apr 03 10:57 |
| oiaohm | Until the are removed. | Apr 03 10:57 |
| DaemonFC | no, they expired | Apr 03 10:57 |
| oiaohm | Fat with long filenames | Apr 03 10:57 |
| schestowitz | I wrote about Novell having no sense of humour. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/0… | Apr 03 10:57 |
| oiaohm | Is not expired. | Apr 03 10:57 |
| DaemonFC | FAT is well past patent expiration | Apr 03 10:58 |
| oiaohm | 2015 those expire. | Apr 03 10:58 |
| DaemonFC | maybe not with LFN though cause that’s what, 1995? | Apr 03 10:58 |
| oiaohm | USA patent laws. | Apr 03 10:58 |
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| oiaohm | LFN was documented in 1990 | Apr 03 10:58 |
| oiaohm | Patent appled for in 1995 | Apr 03 10:58 |
| oiaohm | USA started counting form date of application. | Apr 03 10:58 |
| oiaohm | Pure idiot laws over there not date of invention. | Apr 03 10:59 |
| DaemonFC | no, the laws make sense | Apr 03 10:59 |
| DaemonFC | from the point of politicians being bribed | Apr 03 10:59 |
| DaemonFC | and letting companies write our law | Apr 03 10:59 |
| DaemonFC | they make PERFECT sense | Apr 03 10:59 |
| oiaohm | You can theoy apply for a patent 20 years after the fact under the USA system. | Apr 03 10:59 |
| DaemonFC | What part about that doesn’t make sense to you? | Apr 03 10:59 |
| oiaohm | Then get 20 years from then. | Apr 03 11:00 |
| DaemonFC | the fact there’s two parties? | Apr 03 11:00 |
| DaemonFC | or that they’re both crooked? | Apr 03 11:00 |
| oiaohm | And also charge anyone who used that patented method in that time. | Apr 03 11:00 |
| oiaohm | So instead of the 20 years you are ment to be allowed legally you get 40. | Apr 03 11:00 |
| oiaohm | Pure stupidity in laws. | Apr 03 11:00 |
| DaemonFC | no | Apr 03 11:01 |
| oiaohm | Causes by one error. | Apr 03 11:01 |
| DaemonFC | not stupidity | Apr 03 11:01 |
| DaemonFC | it’s clever | Apr 03 11:01 |
| DaemonFC | there’s two parties here, they’re both crooks | Apr 03 11:01 |
| DaemonFC | and so you can throw the bastards out all you want | Apr 03 11:01 |
| DaemonFC | and you never get rid of them | Apr 03 11:01 |
| oiaohm | that case was 1 idiot and 1 crook. | Apr 03 11:02 |
| DaemonFC | Anyway, Australia is no different | Apr 03 11:02 |
| DaemonFC | nor is any country inthe WTO | Apr 03 11:02 |
| DaemonFC | they all end up with the same laws | Apr 03 11:02 |
| oiaohm | Person got proven not to know the difference between data of application and date of invention. | Apr 03 11:02 |
| oiaohm | Lot of places Australia has different laws. WTO laws with overrides. | Apr 03 11:03 |
| DaemonFC | the WTO is a criminal organization that exists to usurp governmental control | Apr 03 11:03 |
| DaemonFC | and rewrite laws based on corporate will | Apr 03 11:03 |
| oiaohm | Australian business is a bunch of crooks. | Apr 03 11:03 |
| DaemonFC | the WTO is a Corporatocracy | Apr 03 11:03 |
| DaemonFC | that wields the power to rewrite laws of any country | Apr 03 11:04 |
| oiaohm | Australian goverment need the fair trading laws to protect themself from there own local country companies. | Apr 03 11:04 |
| oiaohm | Yes selling the goverment a complete set of lemon cars at one point did not go down too well. | Apr 03 11:04 |
| DaemonFC | your politicians are the same as anyones | Apr 03 11:04 |
| DaemonFC | they don’t _care_ about you | Apr 03 11:04 |
| DaemonFC | you are a peon | Apr 03 11:04 |
| DaemonFC | they are bought and paid for | Apr 03 11:04 |
| DaemonFC | the end | Apr 03 11:04 |
| oiaohm | Yes they don’t car about us. | Apr 03 11:04 |
| oiaohm | Care | Apr 03 11:05 |
| oiaohm | But when you have companies just as evil as them who don’t care about politictions they kinda need to protect themselfs. | Apr 03 11:05 |
| DaemonFC | they run the government as their own piggy bank | Apr 03 11:05 |
| DaemonFC | and give themselves unlimited power | Apr 03 11:05 |
| oiaohm | Companies vs Goverments vs Unions happens here a lot. | Apr 03 11:06 |
| DaemonFC | political corruption is in every nation on this planet | Apr 03 11:06 |
| DaemonFC | the only question being, what kind | Apr 03 11:06 |
| oiaohm | Australia is one of the odd balls where yes there is political corruption. | Apr 03 11:06 |
| DaemonFC | and how much can they get away with | Apr 03 11:06 |
| oiaohm | But companies here will also get away with what ever they can as well. | Apr 03 11:06 |
| oiaohm | So you have two forms of corruption head to head with each other. | Apr 03 11:07 |
| oiaohm | Companies here see nothing wrong with screwing the goverment over if they make a profit. | Apr 03 11:07 |
| DaemonFC | so anyway, I don’t doubt Microsoft has lots of patents against Linux | Apr 03 11:07 |
| DaemonFC | probably not hundreds as they claim | Apr 03 11:07 |
| DaemonFC | but at least a couple dozen | Apr 03 11:07 |
| oiaohm | MS most likely has patents. | Apr 03 11:07 |
| oiaohm | Problem is the MAD factor. | Apr 03 11:07 |
| DaemonFC | the OIN has proven to be impotent | Apr 03 11:08 |
| oiaohm | There are a lot of other companies that support Linux that MS most likely needs patents from. | Apr 03 11:08 |
| DaemonFC | they could have stepped in and gotten MS to back off of TomTom | Apr 03 11:08 |
| DaemonFC | they didn’t | Apr 03 11:08 |
| oiaohm | They did get MS part off TomTom back. | Apr 03 11:08 |
| DaemonFC | no | Apr 03 11:08 |
| DaemonFC | TomTom agreed to settle | Apr 03 11:09 |
| DaemonFC | and license FAT | Apr 03 11:09 |
| oiaohm | No | Apr 03 11:09 |
| DaemonFC | the OIN should sue Microsoft for everything they can | Apr 03 11:09 |
| DaemonFC | right now | Apr 03 11:09 |
| oiaohm | TomTom is removing FAT from there furture products. | Apr 03 11:09 |
| oiaohm | MS droped pushing Linux kernel patents. | Apr 03 11:09 |
| oiaohm | OIN patents on the table ment pushing those forwards would be harmful to MS. | Apr 03 11:10 |
| DaemonFC | well, I need the FAT module for things like SD cards for my camera | Apr 03 11:10 |
| DaemonFC | but I’m not gonna be sued for that | Apr 03 11:10 |
| DaemonFC | TomTom should have known better | Apr 03 11:10 |
| oiaohm | Lot of the devices markers are now sitting down and working out if they will not form a new iso format filesystem. | Apr 03 11:11 |
| DaemonFC | they should | Apr 03 11:11 |
| oiaohm | So MS really has not won this round long term. | Apr 03 11:11 |
| DaemonFC | it’s not good to depend on Microsfot formats | Apr 03 11:11 |
| DaemonFC | no shit | Apr 03 11:11 |
| DaemonFC | anyway, I’m going to nap | Apr 03 11:12 |
| DaemonFC | night night | Apr 03 11:12 |
| oiaohm | Also thinking that the FAT patents are under investagation if they should even be valid. | Apr 03 11:12 |
| oiaohm | Tomtom fighting over them could have been a complete waste of money. | Apr 03 11:12 |
| oiaohm | http://arstechnica.com/hardware/… << That shows you how custom google is. | Apr 03 11:19 |
| oiaohm | You cannot even directly buy the motherboard they are using. | Apr 03 11:19 |
| *mattparry (n=quassel@118-92-175-150.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 03 11:19 | |
| mattparry | Hi! | Apr 03 11:20 |
| oiaohm | Hi mattparry | Apr 03 11:20 |
| mattparry | So I see that there are more gnome vs KDE arguments on the net | Apr 03 11:20 |
| oiaohm | Really that is nothing new. | Apr 03 11:20 |
| oiaohm | It started back in 1994 and has hot and cold times since then. | Apr 03 11:21 |
| mattparry | So they debate the merrits of KDE and Gnome, however I notice in the comments its really about Gnome intergrating mono | Apr 03 11:21 |
| oiaohm | Not really. | Apr 03 11:21 |
| oiaohm | KDE and Gnome supportter will find any grounds to hammer the other. | Apr 03 11:22 |
| mattparry | look at osnews, look at the comments, they are mostly mono | Apr 03 11:22 |
| oiaohm | KDE support .net applications as well. | Apr 03 11:22 |
| oiaohm | Just does not ship with any. | Apr 03 11:22 |
| oiaohm | Gnome is also detangling themselfs from .net with vala | Apr 03 11:22 |
| oiaohm | Its more the normal storms in tea cup. | Apr 03 11:23 |
| mattparry | *maybe* it would be helpful if we help KDE make a statement on where they stand with mono | Apr 03 11:23 |
| mattparry | i *personally* would like to know where my DE stands on mono | Apr 03 11:25 |
| schestowitz | Hi, macabe | Apr 03 11:26 |
| schestowitz | * mattparry | Apr 03 11:26 |
| mattparry | oiaohm – where do you see that kde supports .net applications? | Apr 03 11:26 |
| mattparry | hi roy | Apr 03 11:26 |
| oiaohm | In there supported binding languages mattparry | Apr 03 11:26 |
| oiaohm | Treated the same as any other language interperter. | Apr 03 11:27 |
| schestowitz | True. | Apr 03 11:27 |
| oiaohm | There are quite a few different langauges in there. | Apr 03 11:28 |
| mattparry | ok? so how can we adjust their philosophy? | Apr 03 11:28 |
| oiaohm | KDE philosophy is embrace and extend. | Apr 03 11:28 |
| oiaohm | They are going to embrace Windows Mac Linux and extend them all. | Apr 03 11:29 |
| oiaohm | People using the ,net bindings have to use same style bindings as every other language. | Apr 03 11:29 |
| oiaohm | Even a lot of .net internal parts are not compadible cleanly with KDE bindings. | Apr 03 11:30 |
| mattparry | oiaohm – I dont *beleive* that they are extend and embrace into the bad area. I like their agument about converting people from windows to oss by supporting windows | Apr 03 11:30 |
| oiaohm | So forcing .net developers using KDE bindings just like every other scripting language they support. | Apr 03 11:31 |
| mattparry | but I *beleive* that they know right from wrong | Apr 03 11:31 |
| oiaohm | KDE as a desktop always has had to have a embrace and extend model. | Apr 03 11:32 |
| oiaohm | Ie embrace new features and extend them. | Apr 03 11:32 |
| mattparry | oiaohm, so who are the bad guys, who are the good guys around here? | Apr 03 11:32 |
| oiaohm | Tattics can be used by either. | Apr 03 11:33 |
| oiaohm | KDE will not drop to illegal actions to do there embrace and extend. | Apr 03 11:33 |
| mattparry | i *think* that we need to use the same tatics of MS, but within our own community. I think that we need to *save* a project, and I think KDE is more saveble than Gnome? | Apr 03 11:35 |
| oiaohm | KDE has gone threw a lot of pain to restruct. | Apr 03 11:36 |
| oiaohm | Gnome is not past saving. | Apr 03 11:36 |
| mattparry | roy, I would welcome your opinion? | Apr 03 11:36 |
| oiaohm | Really we need both to work more with each other. | Apr 03 11:36 |
| oiaohm | Like with common theming so you cannot tell the difference between a gnome or kde application. | Apr 03 11:37 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: so they pay me back the part i’ve paid for? | Apr 03 11:37 |
| oiaohm | Linux desktop would not be where it is today with out standards. | Apr 03 11:37 |
| MinceR | not that i’ve ever paid for a phone in installments or that i ever plan to | Apr 03 11:38 |
| mattparry | oiaohn – I agree, we need standards | Apr 03 11:38 |
| oiaohm | I still remember the desktop havic of 1995 on Linux. | Apr 03 11:38 |
| oiaohm | When there was no shared start memu system. | Apr 03 11:38 |
| mattparry | what we have to be carefull of is the influence of the wrong standard. | Apr 03 11:38 |
| oiaohm | Wrong standards normally disappear in time. | Apr 03 11:39 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: No, because you broke the agreement | Apr 03 11:39 |
| DaemonFC | and the law | Apr 03 11:39 |
| oiaohm | Remember the gif standard for web pages. | Apr 03 11:39 |
| mattparry | look at how they tried to push the rpm as the standard install package | Apr 03 11:39 |
| oiaohm | Do you see them any more when it was found wrong it got replaced. | Apr 03 11:39 |
| mattparry | that had the deb guys up in arms | Apr 03 11:39 |
| MinceR | see, that’s the kind of slavery i want to avoid :. | Apr 03 11:39 |
| MinceR | :> | Apr 03 11:39 |
| oiaohm | Did it work mattparry | Apr 03 11:39 |
| oiaohm | Nop. | Apr 03 11:39 |
| oiaohm | If the standard is good it will work. | Apr 03 11:40 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: I don’t see any problem | Apr 03 11:40 |
| MinceR | i didn’t expect you to | Apr 03 11:40 |
| mattparry | we need to be careful that the mono standard does not become our standard | Apr 03 11:40 |
| oiaohm | If its not it will die out in time. | Apr 03 11:40 |
| DaemonFC | let people that are stupid enough to agree to that get what they deserve | Apr 03 11:40 |
| oiaohm | Biggest thing need to kill mono is gcc fixed up. | Apr 03 11:40 |
| DaemonFC | you know there IS a DotGNU project | Apr 03 11:40 |
| MinceR | and then let all other options die out because the overwhelming majority is stupid enough :> | Apr 03 11:40 |
| DaemonFC | which is more or less the same thing as Mono | Apr 03 11:41 |
| oiaohm | Most of the reasons why .net applications can get faster at time is poor optimisation. | Apr 03 11:41 |
| MinceR | hasn’t the dotgnu project stopped yet? | Apr 03 11:41 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.gnu.org/software/dotgnu/ | Apr 03 11:41 |
| DaemonFC | nope | Apr 03 11:41 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Apr 03 11:41 |
| mattparry | and i *think* that if you look at KDE and gnome, then if you look at who is more likly to beleive in our standard, then I *think* that kde is the place to start | Apr 03 11:41 |
| mattparry | oiaohm – no it did not work | Apr 03 11:42 |
| DaemonFC | so the FSF has ot problem with C# | Apr 03 11:42 |
| DaemonFC | and the rest of .Net | Apr 03 11:42 |
| DaemonFC | *no | Apr 03 11:42 |
| DaemonFC | and the FSF is all fancy and religious and lawyered up | Apr 03 11:43 |
| oiaohm | Next round of installers from Linux Standard base will be distribtuion netural. | Apr 03 11:43 |
| DaemonFC | so why are you being anal? | Apr 03 11:43 |
| DaemonFC | |
Apr 03 11:43 |
| oiaohm | Gcc does have the cil project. | Apr 03 11:43 |
| oiaohm | What is .net binaries to native code. | Apr 03 11:44 |
| oiaohm | Question is do .net patent still apply after conversion. | Apr 03 11:44 |
| DaemonFC | .Net (the standardized parts) are no worse than supporting C or C++ | Apr 03 11:44 |
| DaemonFC | even RMS will say that | Apr 03 11:44 |
| oiaohm | Depends on what starndard parts. | Apr 03 11:44 |
| oiaohm | The standard windows only gui create parts. | Apr 03 11:45 |
| DaemonFC | the ISO/ECMA standard sections | Apr 03 11:45 |
| DaemonFC | that’s 99.9% of C# | Apr 03 11:45 |
| oiaohm | I have always never understood why C# has to build to byte code. | Apr 03 11:45 |
| oiaohm | Just like java that way. | Apr 03 11:45 |
| DaemonFC | there’s like all of three functions you risk patent infringement with | Apr 03 11:45 |
| MinceR | 125341 < DaemonFC> even RMS will say that | Apr 03 11:45 |
| DaemonFC | the rest is OK | Apr 03 11:45 |
| MinceR | when? | Apr 03 11:45 |
| DaemonFC | he had an interview transcript | Apr 03 11:46 |
| DaemonFC | I read it last year | Apr 03 11:46 |
| DaemonFC | and even the functions that are non standard don’t ship with Mono by default | Apr 03 11:47 |
| DaemonFC | as shipped with GNOME anyway | Apr 03 11:47 |
| mattparry | guys – what purpose does this converstaion serve? | Apr 03 11:48 |
| DaemonFC | libmono-winforms1.0-cil and libmono-winforms2.0-cil are NOT INSTALLED by GNOME | Apr 03 11:49 |
| DaemonFC | so you’re fine | Apr 03 11:49 |
| DaemonFC | Banshee depends on winforms 2.0 though B-) | Apr 03 11:49 |
| DaemonFC | so does Moonlight | Apr 03 11:49 |
| mattparry | we can get into technicallities all we want, but we are all here for a common purpose – are we not? | Apr 03 11:50 |
| MinceR | mattparry: it serves DaemonFC’s urges to troll | Apr 03 11:50 |
| DaemonFC | I’m not trolling, merely stating facts | Apr 03 11:50 |
| DaemonFC | instead of irrational hatred |
Apr 03 11:50 |
| MinceR | what you keep stating are rarely facts | Apr 03 11:50 |
| DaemonFC | and it looks like Banshee no longer depends on winforms | Apr 03 11:51 |
| DaemonFC | so you’re right, I was wrong about that much | Apr 03 11:51 |
| DaemonFC | nor does moonlight | Apr 03 11:52 |
| DaemonFC | well | Apr 03 11:52 |
| DaemonFC | I’ll be damned | Apr 03 11:52 |
| DaemonFC | so there’s actually nothing in Ubuntu’s repo mono-related that depends on anything Microsoft could sue for | Apr 03 11:52 |
| DaemonFC | much less what GNOME ships with | Apr 03 11:53 |
| *DaemonFC loves reactionary nitwits | Apr 03 11:54 | |
| mattparry | ok so – for one second – daemonFC, for one sentance, what are your beliefs? | Apr 03 11:55 |
| mattparry | MinceR – where are you heading? | Apr 03 11:55 |
| mattparry | oiaohm? you too – why are you in this channel? | Apr 03 11:56 |
| DaemonFC | That if you can’t be sued for something, go for it. If you sign a contract, don’t try to weasel out of it or sign it with full intentions of breaking it. | Apr 03 11:56 |
| MinceR | mattparry: what do you mean? | Apr 03 11:59 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: oh, so you fully support the m$ patent racket despite it goes against the spirit but not the wording of GPLv2? | Apr 03 11:59 |
| DaemonFC | I think you are literate | Apr 03 11:59 |
| DaemonFC | am I wrong? | Apr 03 12:00 |
| MinceR | (i’m referring to using a “covenant not to sue” instead of a “patent license”) | Apr 03 12:00 |
| DaemonFC | agree or don’t agree, but don’t say you don’t understand the agreement | Apr 03 12:00 |
| DaemonFC | declining their license is fine | Apr 03 12:00 |
| DaemonFC | The GPL had some gaps, so they wrote a new document with the same gaps and now are trying to control hardware too | Apr 03 12:01 |
| mattparry | MinceR – I mean are the people in here – for or against the fundermental direction that boycottnovell is going? | Apr 03 12:01 |
| DaemonFC | I agree that GPL 3 is unacceptable | Apr 03 12:02 |
| MinceR | mattparry: what direction is BN going? | Apr 03 12:02 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: that wasn’t the question | Apr 03 12:02 |
| DaemonFC | I think there should have been a GPL revision, but they went after the wrong thing | Apr 03 12:02 |
| DaemonFC | and they even put in a special exemption for Novell | Apr 03 12:02 |
| DaemonFC | in t he form of a grandfather clause | Apr 03 12:03 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: the question was, do you think it’s acceptable to avoid having to comply with a term of a license you’re using by using a different legal wording to achieve the same effect (“covenant not to sue” instead of “patent license”)? | Apr 03 12:03 |
| mattparry | to me, BN is going in the correct direction that I beleive in, however I want more *groups* to beleive that it is the correct direction | Apr 03 12:03 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: If you want to use Microsfot codecs and agree to that license | Apr 03 12:03 |
| DaemonFC | I absolutely believe you should have the ability to do that | Apr 03 12:04 |
| DaemonFC | they are not being crammed dow nyour throat | Apr 03 12:04 |
| DaemonFC | *Microsoft | Apr 03 12:04 |
| oiaohm | mattparry: my reasons for following BN are my won. Lot of things schestowitz and me see eye to eye on. Somethings no so much. But that is the world. | Apr 03 12:04 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: that isn’t so simple either | Apr 03 12:04 |
| oiaohm | won/one | Apr 03 12:04 |
| oiaohm | Opps | Apr 03 12:04 |
| mattparry | I want more groups to agree, and we need to get the groups that we beleive in agree with us | Apr 03 12:04 |
| oiaohm | won/own | Apr 03 12:04 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: You also have the right to use Windows or not | Apr 03 12:04 |
| DaemonFC | that’s no different | Apr 03 12:04 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: once again, not absolutely | Apr 03 12:04 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: Vendor lock in? | Apr 03 12:05 |
| DaemonFC | not really | Apr 03 12:05 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: what if you live in a stupid country where you’re forced by law to use a windows-only app to do your taxes? | Apr 03 12:05 |
| DaemonFC | you can compile moonlight agaisnt Gstreamer plugins | Apr 03 12:05 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: what if the country you live in buys microsoft crap on your tax money? | Apr 03 12:05 |
| oiaohm | I need a windows machine every year here. | Apr 03 12:05 |
| oiaohm | To do my tax return. | Apr 03 12:05 |
| DaemonFC | you get the government you deserve? | Apr 03 12:05 |
| DaemonFC | sue them? | Apr 03 12:05 |
| DaemonFC | vote for different politicians? | Apr 03 12:06 |
| MinceR | i can’t do anything against them yet | Apr 03 12:06 |
| MinceR | i live in a country full of idiots | Apr 03 12:06 |
| MinceR | and most countries are full of idiots, if not all of them | Apr 03 12:06 |
| DaemonFC | sue them? | Apr 03 12:06 |
| oiaohm | Even worse my country has a huge mother of a Linux super computer for processing tax returns but you cannot submit tax returns using Linux. | Apr 03 12:06 |
| MinceR | did the usian sue-happiness go to your mind? | Apr 03 12:06 |
| DaemonFC | run their program in Wine? | Apr 03 12:06 |
| MinceR | what if it won’t run in wine? | Apr 03 12:06 |
| oiaohm | Nop | Apr 03 12:06 |
| MinceR | not all windows apps do | Apr 03 12:06 |
| DaemonFC | I say sue them | Apr 03 12:07 |
| oiaohm | Australian Etax most of the time does not run in Wine. | Apr 03 12:07 |
| oiaohm | No cannot sue them. | Apr 03 12:07 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: on TPM in Linux: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/… | Apr 03 12:07 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: for the thousandth time, this is not the usa, suing the state does nothing | Apr 03 12:07 |
| oiaohm | Because they will give you a 100 percent refund to by windows. | Apr 03 12:07 |
| oiaohm | Yes DaemonFC | Apr 03 12:07 |
| oiaohm | Screwed. | Apr 03 12:07 |
| oiaohm | Any software you need to do your tax is refundable.’ | Apr 03 12:08 |
| DaemonFC | OK, so they refund you the money for Windows | Apr 03 12:08 |
| DaemonFC | that money comes out of taxes | Apr 03 12:08 |
| DaemonFC | so you’re really buying it anyway | Apr 03 12:08 |
| MinceR | except no, they won’t | Apr 03 12:08 |
| DaemonFC | when you pay taxes | Apr 03 12:08 |
| oiaohm | Yep | Apr 03 12:08 |
| MinceR | oh, it’s another case | Apr 03 12:08 |
| oiaohm | 100 percent screwed. | Apr 03 12:08 |
| MinceR | i thought you were talking about what i was. | Apr 03 12:09 |
| DaemonFC | that sounds like a government to me | Apr 03 12:09 |
| DaemonFC | so someone has bribed the Australian officials to do that | Apr 03 12:10 |
| DaemonFC | (Microsoft) | Apr 03 12:10 |
| DaemonFC | and to make it look fair by saying you get it refunded | Apr 03 12:10 |
| DaemonFC | but Microsoft literally gets a huge stream of Australian tax revenue | Apr 03 12:10 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: and since it’s all legal, it’s ok with you :> | Apr 03 12:10 |
| *zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@117.97.203.253) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 03 12:10 | |
Victor Soliz said,
April 4, 2009 at 8:19 am
Could you post these logs in a page outside the main post and link them instead? They are way too long for RSS and things like that…
Roy Schestowitz Reply:
April 4th, 2009 at 8:46 am
The titles are already made consistent to encourage filtering.
Qardia said,
April 4, 2009 at 8:50 am
And: Ensure that IP addresses are not published. Because this provides excellent opportunities to track your network.
Roy Schestowitz Reply:
April 4th, 2009 at 9:09 am
It would be easy to probe in FreeNode based on nickname. Hiding of one’s IP is possible if one contacts FreeNode’s staff.
David Gerard Reply:
April 5th, 2009 at 11:15 am
An organisation can apply for cloaks (e.g. I have a /wikimedia cloak). I’m not sure of the procedure. It’s not the most efficient of procedures, as I understand it.