05.04.09
IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: May 3rd, 2009 – Part 1
To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| schestowitz | Moles Watch: RNC, DataInfoCom, Symform and Microsoft < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05… > | May 03 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/02/m… (Microsoft Shoves Internet Explorer 8 Down Users’ Throats, But What About Choice?) | May 03 00:03 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/… (Microsoft is Still Massively Evading Tax, Insider Trading Revisited) | May 03 00:31 |
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| dan | Anyone home? | May 03 01:19 |
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| ML2MST_ | dan: yup I’m at home  |
May 03 01:29 |
| *amarsh04 is at home | May 03 01:30 | |
| ML2MST_ | Ah there are more people at home  |
May 03 01:31 |
| ML2MST_ | WTF? messages are send twice  |
May 03 01:32 |
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| I thought I’d seen that book by Keith Curtis before. He released it in December of 2008 and it was reviewed by the New York Times. http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008… | May 03 03:22 | |
| I downloaded it at the time. The only thing really impressive about the book is who wrote it. The author was, at the time, a relative newcomer to the free software world. | May 03 03:23 | |
| I did not read the whole thing but it is most insightful when he’s describing the mindset inside of M$: Ignorance and loud, shout down, denial. | May 03 03:24 | |
| Other than that, he seems to have absorbed and regurgitated the writings from Perens, Raymond and other voices of the free software world. | May 03 03:26 | |
| From the NYT review: | May 03 03:29 | |
| ” While he was at Microsoft, he had learned little about the open source world. In cafeteria conversation, he had usually taken the position that proprietary software would always maintain a technology lead over open source. He recalled a friend who had tried to install Linux in 1999, but gave up because the backspace key didn’t work. “ | May 03 03:29 | |
| “After he left Microsoft, he installed a copy of the Linux operating system on a lark. His world was turned upside down. He spent three years exploring the open source world — reading, attending conferences, looking at source code and talking to the rank-and-file members of the open source community.” | May 03 03:29 | |
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| Google searching for Keith Curtis mentions on Slashdot turns up this offensive troll http://slashdot.org/~Keith+Curtis | May 03 03:39 | |
| I saw entries all the way back to 2004. | May 03 03:39 | |
| Nice of the Softies to cover their former employee like that, isn’t it? | May 03 03:39 | |
| 2005, not 2004 | May 03 03:46 | |
| that would be right about the time he quit M$ | May 03 03:46 | |
| Windows 7 Hype Log updated with XP VM news, which shows up their promises of compatibility. http://slashdot.org/~twitter/… | May 03 04:06 | |
| M$ Death Watch updated with Keith Curtis book news, http://slashdot.org/~twitter/… | May 03 04:07 | |
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| the_mad_hatter | Roy, it looks like LinuxHow2 is dead, so the links don’t work. However Archive.org has copies. I think the links were from the article about Linux market share. | May 03 07:06 |
| schestowitz | Hey | May 03 07:10 |
| schestowitz | I always notice you only after you leave | May 03 07:10 |
| the_mad_hatter | Still here. | May 03 07:11 |
| schestowitz | LinuxHow2 was silent for a long time | May 03 07:11 |
| schestowitz | It was decent | May 03 07:11 |
| the_mad_hatter | BTW, I hope you backed up the Wagener Edstrom shit, now that you’ve mentioned it, I bet it will disappear. | May 03 07:11 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 03 07:11 |
| schestowitz | I have it on my desktop | May 03 07:12 |
| the_mad_hatter | Yeah. As you noted, good news sites are going missing. | May 03 07:12 |
| schestowitz | But I can’t just slap on in the Web site, can I? | May 03 07:12 |
| the_mad_hatter | And many of the rest have been bought. | May 03 07:12 |
| schestowitz | Well, nothing bought here | May 03 07:12 |
| schestowitz | I have about 6 posts about MS to do now | May 03 07:12 |
| schestowitz | Including this latest about MS buying reviews | May 03 07:12 |
| the_mad_hatter | You’d need to ask a lawyer. I think you could include frames if you added comment, that would come under fair use. | May 03 07:12 |
| the_mad_hatter | But yeah, I’d rate Wagener as Class 1 bastards. | May 03 07:13 |
| schestowitz | Wait until my next post | May 03 07:13 |
| schestowitz | Give me 2 mins | May 03 07:13 |
| schestowitz | Then tell me if you spt typos :-p | May 03 07:14 |
| the_mad_hatter | FYI, I’ll try and drop in when I’m concious, but the damned pain killers mean that even when I’m upright, I may not be all that coherent. | May 03 07:14 |
| the_mad_hatter | OK | May 03 07:14 |
| schestowitz | It’s about W-E also | May 03 07:14 |
| the_mad_hatter | Good. Nail the bastards. | May 03 07:16 |
| the_mad_hatter | FYI, a lot of people say that software patents are a problem. They are wrong. | May 03 07:16 |
| the_mad_hatter | The problem is patents, period. Have you ever read any patents as uspto.gov? | May 03 07:18 |
| schestowitz | OK done | May 03 07:21 |
| schestowitz | You’ll like this one. | May 03 07:21 |
| schestowitz | Patents, marketing, acquisitions… | May 03 07:21 |
| schestowitz | Anything to avoid having to go through the nuisance of improving products… | May 03 07:21 |
| schestowitz | aka “solutions”… | May 03 07:21 |
| schestowitz | aka “innovations”.. | May 03 07:21 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is ‘Buying’ Blog Posts That Glorify Microsoft Windows http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0… | May 03 07:22 |
| the_mad_hatter | that’s not quite my point. I read a lot of patents. more than 95% of the ones I read do not meet the USPTO rules for patentability. | May 03 07:22 |
| tessier | the_mad_hatter: Then how did they get patented? | May 03 07:25 |
| the_mad_hatter | the USPTO ignores the rules. | May 03 07:25 |
| tessier | the_mad_hatter: How is it that you read a lot of patents? Does your job require it somehow? | May 03 07:25 |
| tessier | the_mad_hatter: Are you a patent lawyer? | May 03 07:25 |
| the_mad_hatter | Yes. Technical Sales and Design. | May 03 07:25 |
| tessier | cool | May 03 07:26 |
| the_mad_hatter | No, I am not a lawyer. But I can read. | May 03 07:26 |
| tessier | I thought most companies advised their engineers/sales/product dev people not to read patents | May 03 07:26 |
| the_mad_hatter | Take that stupid shit in KSR vs Teleflex. What was patented was the relocation of a switch. | May 03 07:26 |
| tessier | Because if you know you are violating the patent it becomes willful infringement which is much harder to defend and much more expensive if you lose | May 03 07:26 |
| the_mad_hatter | Since I set the policy, I get to do what I want. | May 03 07:27 |
| the_mad_hatter | That isn’t totally true. | May 03 07:28 |
| the_mad_hatter | And of course you can’t design around a patent, unless you know what it says. | May 03 07:30 |
| schestowitz | true. Microsoft tells programmers not to read patents | May 03 07:31 |
| schestowitz | It advises against that | May 03 07:32 |
| schestowitz | That’s how ‘valuable’ those ‘innovations’ are | May 03 07:32 |
| the_mad_hatter | Our engineers don’t read patents. I’m in a different position. | May 03 07:39 |
| the_mad_hatter | But to get back to my point, the USPTO is breaking the law on several points: | May 03 07:40 |
| the_mad_hatter | 1) Patents have to represent working devices. There is a patent for a space ship drive that was issued, and no, it does not work. | May 03 07:40 |
| the_mad_hatter | 2) The device cannot be obvious. The vast majority of patents that I read are for obvious modifications of existing technology. | May 03 07:41 |
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| the_mad_hatter | 3) First Invented issues. In many cases devices are patented that already exist and are on the market place, see the Java Model Railroad case. | May 03 07:42 |
| the_mad_hatter | 3) continued – this is so common, and it is so hard to get an issued patent retracted even when proof is widely available, that the average person would scream if they knew how bad things are. | May 03 07:43 |
| the_mad_hatter | The system doesn’t work. | May 03 07:43 |
| schestowitz | Many say that all patentrs are stupid | May 03 07:44 |
| schestowitz | People who won Nobel prized | May 03 07:44 |
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| the_mad_hatter | The system does several trillions of dollars of damages to the US economy every year, and unless the system is shut down it’s only going to get worse. | May 03 07:44 |
| schestowitz | *s | May 03 07:44 |
| schestowitz | Several even | May 03 07:44 |
| schestowitz | But as sw engineers we want to keep this mess out | May 03 07:45 |
| schestowitz | It’s also less abstract | May 03 07:45 |
| schestowitz | Thus easy for people to writer without big equipment | May 03 07:45 |
| schestowitz | Reproducibility is another | May 03 07:45 |
| the_mad_hatter | I said that 95% of what I read was shit. The other 5% may have been, but was complexly enough written that I didn’t understand it. | May 03 07:45 |
| schestowitz | And then you have COPYRIGHTS | May 03 07:45 |
| schestowitz | The Path to Mono-free GNOME-based Distributions is Foreseeable http://boycottnovell.com/2009/… | May 03 07:45 |
| the_mad_hatter | Actually, no, we don’t want to keep this out. Think about it. | May 03 07:45 |
| the_mad_hatter | How do you define software? | May 03 07:46 |
| the_mad_hatter | You come up with a definition, and someone will come up with an alternative definition that he/she will argue is patentable. | May 03 07:47 |
| the_mad_hatter | The only way to handle patents, is the nuclear option. Nuke them all, till they glow in the dark. | May 03 07:47 |
| ” if you know you are violating the patent it becomes willful infringement which is much harder to defend and much more expensive if you lose” hmmm. Isn’t willful ignorance the same as willful infringement? The spirit is the same. | May 03 07:47 | |
| the_mad_hatter | Not before the courts at present. That may change. In our case, as I said, I tell the engineers what they can’t do, and let them come up with alternatives. | May 03 07:49 |
| ushimitsudoki | It’s also funny to go back into the early days of mono and see people from GNOME defending mono, saying there is “only one little app in the desktop release (tomboy) running on Mono.” How foolish it was to think that mono-supporters were going to settle for “one little app”, and how foolish it would be to think they are going to let what mono is already in gnome to be easily replaced | May 03 07:50 |
| ushimitsudoki | Quote from here: http://gnomesupport.org/forums/… | May 03 07:50 |
| ushimitsudoki | Lot of similar “don’t worry it’s just one small app” defense talk around the same time, though | May 03 07:50 |
| bgtr4 | don’t worry, it’s just a small life in the eternity | May 03 07:52 |
| the_mad_hatter | The Mono supporters sound more and more desperate. | May 03 07:54 |
| ushimitsudoki | Really? I think they are very effective in confusing users and gaining acceptance. I’m quite concerned that banshee will be in next version of Ubuntu. They are well funded and organized. | May 03 07:55 |
| schestowitz | Sounds like you talk of Al Qaeda | May 03 07:58 |
| the_mad_hatter | I agree there is reason to be concerned, and that you need fight this. But as I said, listen to the way they talk. They are scared. | May 03 07:58 |
| the_mad_hatter | And they have reason to be scared. They’ve pissed of a few too many people, and when you do that, well, your acceptance level drops. | May 03 07:58 |
| the_mad_hatter | And of course the Tom Tom case has opened some eyes. | May 03 07:59 |
| ushimitsudoki | Heh. I don’t want to draw that comparison. I’m just saying that mono-supporters are organized and have some $$ behind them. They aren’t going to give up – but other users get tired of opposition, and just shrug and accept mono. I’d like to see a firm win like GNote actually replacing TomBoy in GNOME. Something like that would be very nice. | May 03 08:00 |
| ushimitsudoki | Right now, I can’t say I have seen mono lose anything major – sure, they have taken some hits, but they continue to get more mono apps in the core GNOME project, and slip mono apps into distros that aren’t in gnome core | May 03 08:01 |
| the_mad_hatter | So we need to step up the opposition. | May 03 08:03 |
| the_mad_hatter | Anyway, I gotta run. It’s after 3 AM here, I gotta take the dogs for one more walk, and then, at least assuming that the pain let’s me, try and get some sleep. Night all. | May 03 08:04 |
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| TheOpenSourcerer | Hi Roy, not sure about this. It’s a week or so old but did you see this? http://port25.technet.com/archive/2… | May 03 08:11 |
| TheOpenSourcerer | NFSv4 for Winblows… | May 03 08:11 |
| schestowitz | Let me see | May 03 08:14 |
| schestowitz | Oh, I wrote about it | May 03 08:15 |
| schestowitz | Twice even | May 03 08:15 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/… | May 03 08:16 |
| schestowitz | And this: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04… | May 03 08:16 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: I was jokingly referring to “well funded and organized.” | May 03 08:17 |
| schestowitz | It doesn’t trranslate well into text though | May 03 08:17 |
| bgtr4 | is mono a requirement in mandriva 2009.1? | May 03 08:25 |
| schestowitz | Maybe for GNOME | May 03 08:26 |
| schestowitz | Xandros/Presto is Windows-Only, Xandros is Still Linux Shy < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/03/x… > | May 03 08:27 |
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| bgtr4 | i just read that mono is excluded from the requirements to oo in mdv 2009.1 | May 03 08:28 |
| bgtr4 | wonder if there are other programs of common use that require mono | May 03 08:29 |
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| amarsh04 | only packages mentioned in debian depending on libmono0 are beagle and f-spot | May 03 08:43 |
| oiaohm | There are not many programs. | May 03 08:44 |
| amarsh04 | gfax, gnome-rdp, banshee, bless, drapes, gbrainy, giver, gshare, hipo, podsleuth, tangerine, tasque, tomboy | May 03 08:47 |
| amarsh04 | that’s about everything in Debian that depends on mono libs that aren’t actually libs themselves | May 03 08:48 |
| oiaohm | Compared to the numbers of C++ programs out there its really nothing. | May 03 08:49 |
| oiaohm | Lots of those programs have replacement options as well. | May 03 08:49 |
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| oiaohm | .net is basically vb all over again. | May 03 08:50 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Puts Live Shackles on Children in Thailand < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/0… > | May 03 09:02 |
| schestowitz | bgtr4: not many programs in kde grab the mono stack | May 03 09:02 |
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| oiaohm | KDE uses python a lot. | May 03 09:08 |
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| schestowitz | Killer Feature of Microsoft Windows: It Can Kill Patients: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/… | May 03 09:50 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05… (Microsoft’s XBox Group Still Operates at a Loss, XBox Director Quits) | May 03 10:11 |
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| oiaohm | Core systems in australian hospitals runs on Solarias. | May 03 10:31 |
| oiaohm | Its the small medical pracs that have been effected by the worm.s. | May 03 10:32 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe some laptops on Wi-FI | May 03 10:40 |
| schestowitz | Can DDOS some machines in their vicinity maybe |
May 03 10:40 |
| schestowitz | Intranet | May 03 10:40 |
| schestowitz | Hammer DNS | May 03 10:40 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft Faces “Strong Competition” Because It is Deep in Vapourware Mode < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/03/… > | May 03 11:04 |
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| oiaohm | They are not exactly in deep vapourware | May 03 11:11 |
| schestowitz | Why not? | May 03 11:12 |
| schestowitz | OK, it’s not as vapourish now | May 03 11:12 |
| schestowitz | But they already talk about Vista8 | May 03 11:12 |
| oiaohm | Nothing is going how MS expected. After Windows ME windows XP was a simple sale. So MS though Windows 7 would be a simple sale after Vista. | May 03 11:12 |
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| schestowitz | Don’t forget they already move on to more promises | May 03 11:12 |
| oiaohm | Ie they tried to do a Windows ME sale method to XP. | May 03 11:12 |
| oiaohm | With Vista and Windows 7 | May 03 11:13 |
| oiaohm | MS has no repect that they are not the only house in town yet. | May 03 11:13 |
| schestowitz | No, they messed up | May 03 11:13 |
| oiaohm | Big time. | May 03 11:13 |
| oiaohm | Windows 7 comared to Vista is a improvement. | May 03 11:13 |
| oiaohm | Compared to Ubuntu its not much. | May 03 11:15 |
| oiaohm | Disreguard you competition suffer. | May 03 11:15 |
| oiaohm | Also compared to XP not that much. | May 03 11:15 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/03/… (Microsoft’s Online Business is Crumbling Even Further) | May 03 11:25 |
| schestowitz | 13709 pageviews in BN in the past 6 hours | May 03 11:27 |
| schestowitz | Mostly feed/rss readers (offline) | May 03 11:27 |
| schestowitz | gtg bbl | May 03 11:28 |
| trmanco | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F… | May 03 11:37 |
| trmanco | this caught my attention -> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/For… | May 03 11:37 |
| trmanco | There are serious concerns about Moonlight, due to Microsoft and Novell’s public statements around its inclusion in their “covenant”. In addition to that Groklaw has posted a FAQ from Software Freedom Law Center (SFLC) on the issues with this patent “covenant”. Accordingly, this technology (with, or without codecs), is considered too risky, and is not acceptable for inclusion in Fedora. | May 03 11:37 |
| trmanco |  |
May 03 11:37 |
| trmanco | >> ” this technology (with, or without codecs), is considered too risky, and is not acceptable for inclusion in Fedora.” | May 03 11:38 |
| trmanco | .Net arse kicking here | May 03 11:38 |
| bgtr4 | seems like moonlight is all ova linux distros already | May 03 11:40 |
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| bgtr4 | if people were sane enough… they just left mono for opensuse alone | May 03 11:41 |
| trmanco | well, excluding MS moonlight from fedora is a start | May 03 11:42 |
| trmanco | now, excluding mono would probably take more effort, they have mono boosters too in fedora I think | May 03 11:42 |
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| bgtr4 | i really doubt that they will exclude mono | May 03 11:43 |
| oiaohm | Anything is possible. | May 03 11:44 |
| trmanco | yep | May 03 11:46 |
| trmanco | we just need the right people to do this and make real decisions | May 03 11:46 |
| trmanco | there is no need for f-spot or tomboy anymore | May 03 11:46 |
| trmanco | so the hole mono stack in fedora is useless | May 03 11:46 |
| trmanco | I’ve already heard that there will also be a f-spot port to c++, rumors maybe, but this is not really needed | May 03 11:47 |
| oiaohm | Upstreem rejection is the most harmful. Ie getting the gnome project to turn on .net. | May 03 11:48 |
| bgtr4 | if gnome is on .net then people will turn to kde mostly | May 03 11:49 |
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| oiaohm | Why bgtr4 | May 03 12:00 |
| oiaohm | Kde does not have great .net support. | May 03 12:00 |
| bgtr4 | it’s interesting, what linus thinks about gnome being .net addicted? | May 03 12:00 |
| bgtr4 | .net… i didn’t even want to learn it when i was developing for windows | May 03 12:01 |
| trmanco | it’s horrible | May 03 12:03 |
| trmanco | and slow as crap | May 03 12:03 |
| bgtr4 | i know | May 03 12:03 |
| trmanco | I’m forced to learn to program in that shit, you know… | May 03 12:04 |
| trmanco | and use MFC’s … and use the bloated MSVC | May 03 12:05 |
| bgtr4 | there’s wtl | May 03 12:05 |
| bgtr4 | msvc is easy to use for development and for me it’s faster to write code with it | May 03 12:05 |
| bgtr4 | but it costs too much | May 03 12:06 |
| trmanco | oh, I forgot to mention -> Express | May 03 12:06 |
| trmanco | … | May 03 12:06 |
| bgtr4 | oh lol | May 03 12:06 |
| bgtr4 | i saw dat too | May 03 12:06 |
| trmanco | not the real stuff, just MSVC express | May 03 12:06 |
| bgtr4 | it doesn’t have wtl in it | May 03 12:06 |
| bgtr4 | atl and mfc | May 03 12:07 |
| trmanco | yep, that’s all you get | May 03 12:07 |
| trmanco | and you also get crappy syntax highlighting, even gedit can do a better job | May 03 12:07 |
| trmanco | … | May 03 12:07 |
| bgtr4 | here in russia sw is almost free of charge | May 03 12:07 |
| bgtr4 | so there’s wholetomato’s visual assist | May 03 12:08 |
| bgtr4 | very nice addon | May 03 12:08 |
| trmanco | hmm, never heard of it | May 03 12:09 |
| bgtr4 | developing with that addon in vc becomes pretty cosy | May 03 12:13 |
| bgtr4 | cozy | May 03 12:13 |
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| oiaohm | QT is not exactly priceless. | May 03 13:19 |
| oiaohm | But at least you get cross platform for free what you don’t get with MFC. | May 03 13:19 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: who would be mono booster in Fedora? | May 03 13:34 |
| schestowitz | I haven’t come across any | May 03 13:35 |
| trmanco | I wasn’t sure of what I said | May 03 13:35 |
| trmanco | I don’t follow Fedora, but for them to include Mono by default, there has to be someone to package it, right? | May 03 13:36 |
| schestowitz | I just haven’t seen booster of Mono/MS there. | May 03 13:37 |
| schestowitz | Slated was a packager there | May 03 13:37 |
| trmanco | yes, but not for mono… | May 03 13:41 |
| oiaohm | opensuse build system | May 03 13:43 |
| oiaohm | Builts pacakges for many different distributions at once. | May 03 13:43 |
| trmanco | speaking of open suse | May 03 13:45 |
| trmanco | I have an account on suse studio | May 03 13:45 |
| trmanco | the idea is nice but the limited one distro thing sucks | May 03 13:45 |
| trmanco | you can even test the live cd within your browser | May 03 13:46 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9Sm… | May 03 13:49 |
| schestowitz | Cracy people out there… http://www.youtube.com/watch?… |
May 03 13:54 |
| trmanco | wow | May 03 14:09 |
| trmanco | kde 4 looks great | May 03 14:09 |
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| bgtr4 | lol, aliens secretly controlling the world XD | May 03 14:12 |
| bgtr4 | i didn’t watch any further | May 03 14:12 |
| schestowitz | bgtr4: wait | May 03 14:13 |
| schestowitz | Watch the responses to it | May 03 14:13 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: did you install it? | May 03 14:13 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, testing it on some kind of vm | May 03 14:14 |
| trmanco | http://node15.susestudio.com:32080/ | May 03 14:14 |
| trmanco | it might not work  |
May 03 14:14 |
| schestowitz | No, doesn’t work for me | May 03 14:15 |
| schestowitz | Are you sure it’s hypertext trnasfetr protocol? | May 03 14:16 |
| schestowitz | *transfer | May 03 14:16 |
| trmanco | yeah, you just need auth | May 03 14:16 |
| bgtr4 | schestowitz, what about comments? they’re all stuped | May 03 14:22 |
| bgtr4 | aw… responses | May 03 14:23 |
| bgtr4 | yeah, responses are sane | May 03 14:24 |
| bgtr4 | reminds of south park series | May 03 14:25 |
| bgtr4 | especially the first one XD | May 03 14:26 |
| oiaohm | http://darwinawards.com/darwi… There are always a few less crazy after they win a darwin award. | May 03 14:26 |
| bgtr4 | it has better been darwinia awards | May 03 14:29 |
| bgtr4 | darwin sucks | May 03 14:29 |
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| bgtr4 | aaaaa, i gotta download the latest south park series. didn’t watch them for a year already | May 03 14:37 |
| bgtr4 | ^ that was a notice for me mostly ’cause i’m drunk | May 03 14:43 |
| schestowitz | what, is it still running (SP)? | May 03 14:45 |
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| trmanco | who would like to use Firebug without installing the addon? | May 03 14:57 |
| trmanco | ok, I see | May 03 15:03 |
| trmanco | http://getfirebug.com/lite.html | May 03 15:05 |
| bgtr4 | schestowitz, it’s sane, so it should be running | May 03 15:06 |
| bgtr4 | they killed futurama though | May 03 15:06 |
| bgtr4 | long ago | May 03 15:06 |
| bgtr4 | and i can’t count new futurama series as continuation | May 03 15:07 |
| bgtr4 | ’cause new futurama just sucks | May 03 15:07 |
| trmanco | http://torrentfreak.com/mpaa-websi… | May 03 15:30 |
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| _Hicham_ | Hi schestowitz! | May 03 15:34 |
| schestowitz | Hey threre. | May 03 15:34 |
| trmanco | Counting Lines: http://daviddahl.blogspot.com/20… | May 03 15:36 |
| WSJ has the vapors http://online.wsj.com/article/SB… | May 03 15:51 | |
| Zune phone? Someone please flush. | May 03 15:51 | |
| they denied it http://mobile.blorge.com/2009/04/29/mic… | May 03 15:53 | |
| what a load, create a rumor, crush a rumor. Most of what I read about M$ Mobile is about it being terrible and dumped. | May 03 15:55 | |
| Ah ha. I knew about the crushed strikes and protests on M$’s campus but I did not know this little factiod, “ In March, staffing agencies that work for Microsoft agreed to a 10 percent reduction in their bill rate.” | May 03 16:00 | |
| http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/c… | May 03 16:00 | |
| So they not only fired people and contractors, they squeezed the ones that they kept. | May 03 16:01 | |
| and it was still not enough…. | May 03 16:01 | |
| the rest of that article is about absolute wage decline, you know that deflationary stuff that happens in depressions. | May 03 16:03 | |
| schestowitz | yes, ms denies phone | May 03 16:09 |
| Google trounces M$ in brand and reputation http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/cont… | May 03 16:09 | |
| schestowitz | yes, prices too will rise | May 03 16:10 |
| schestowitz | dollar fall when china and others dump it | May 03 16:10 |
| ut oh. | May 03 16:10 | |
| no more cheap stuff off the boat? | May 03 16:10 | |
| *schestowitz eats apple | May 03 16:10 | |
| idiot advice http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/cont… | May 03 16:20 | |
| I’m amazed that you still have to jump through hoops to get pdf output in Winblows. | May 03 16:21 | |
| Free software on the platform seems to have it but really…. it’s like M$ is out to kill the format or something Silverlie. | May 03 16:21 | |
| the WP author also recommends going with IE8. I suppose anyone who will tell you to stick with Windows would also tell you to use IE. | May 03 16:23 | |
| “ gruesomely obsolete IE “ Yeah, a browser without tabs feels like something from 1994. | May 03 16:25 | |
| IE 7 is not much better. | May 03 16:25 | |
| IE 8, I’m sure, is more of the same. | May 03 16:25 | |
| schestowitz | Hmmm… | May 03 16:26 |
| schestowitz | He forgot other browsers? | May 03 16:26 |
| schestowitz | The author has some Linux affinity though | May 03 16:26 |
| _Hicham_ | anyone in here with previous experience with GTK and OpenGL? | May 03 16:27 |
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| the point is just how pre-historic the Windows experience feels. | May 03 16:34 | |
| no reasonable printer output, no tabs in web browsers, no virtual desktops | May 03 16:35 | |
| it’s like falling into a wormhole and emerging 15 years ago. | May 03 16:35 | |
| Ballmer watch. Sweaty is going to North Carolina research triangle next June. http://www.charlotteobserver.com/… | May 03 16:37 | |
| must be an “infestation” ongoing. | May 03 16:37 | |
| That Business Week article about medical records seems to have conveniently forgotten to mention M$ while naming Google and slamming other vendors. | May 03 16:38 | |
| Funny how M$ is crowing about their medical record vapor at the same time. http://arstechnica.com/business/news/200… | May 03 16:39 | |
| that is the power of M$ spin. | May 03 16:39 | |
| grab a reputable name while damning the competitors. | May 03 16:39 | |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-112-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has left #boycottnovell | May 03 16:40 | |
| Imagine typing your social security number into Windows to access your medical records.. shudder. | May 03 16:40 | |
| bgtr4 | lol | May 03 16:44 |
| bgtr4 | imagine yourself keeping a worldwide identification chip in your body to access anything with m$ behind that all | May 03 16:45 |
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| mooo cow. | May 03 16:46 | |
| bgtr4 | lol | May 03 16:46 |
| bgtr4 | it’s boo | May 03 16:46 |
| M$’s idea of a “Commons” is a mall. | May 03 16:46 | |
| bgtr4 | idk what this sentence mean | May 03 16:46 |
| http://www.komonews.com/news/43323737.html | May 03 16:46 | |
| get your M$ flavored soup. | May 03 16:47 | |
| M$ only, no one else allowed! | May 03 16:47 | |
| M$ is all about exclusion. | May 03 16:47 | |
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| I thought that was supposed to open a few weeks ago. No bar, ha ha. | May 03 16:48 | |
| bgtr4 | i gonna live in medieval time, i won’t accept m$ | May 03 16:48 |
| Run windows and you will live in the 90s. | May 03 16:49 | |
| bgtr4 | lol, kinda not and yeah at the same time | May 03 16:50 |
| If you count the C: notation, where network connections pretend they are floppy drives sitting on top of your box, you are actually living in the 80s | May 03 16:50 | |
| bgtr4 | i’m still living in 90s mentally | May 03 16:50 |
| bgtr4 | even in 80s | May 03 16:50 |
| broadcast is like that. | May 03 16:50 | |
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| bgtr4 | i liked that time | May 03 16:50 |
| bgtr4 | A LOT | May 03 16:50 |
| you should enjoy every day | May 03 16:51 | |
| bgtr4 | but i can’t cope with drm and m$ taking ova everything | May 03 16:51 |
| *mib_o9z6g2 has quit (“http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client”) | May 03 16:51 | |
| that is frustrating | May 03 16:51 | |
| bgtr4 | lol | May 03 16:51 |
| you will feel better if you do something about it. | May 03 16:51 | |
| bgtr4 | so it’s fun and frustrating at teh same time | May 03 16:52 |
| I’m so laughing at the M$ commons. | May 03 16:52 | |
| bgtr4 | it’s my life | May 03 16:52 |
| Compare it to Google’s cafeteria and other perks. | May 03 16:52 | |
| M$, come spend some money in your new Mall. | May 03 16:52 | |
| Google: here, have some good food. | May 03 16:53 | |
| bgtr4 | lol | May 03 16:53 |
| bgtr4 | free food is only in the mice-catchers | May 03 16:53 |
| bgtr4 | google is yet another m$ with even better lies | May 03 16:53 |
| schestowitz | >>> <twitter> no reasonable printer output, no tabs in web browsers, no virtual desktops | May 03 16:53 |
| what kind of moron tries to use a laptop while having a hair cut? | May 03 16:53 | |
| schestowitz | I might .sig that | May 03 16:53 |
| cool, Roy | May 03 16:54 | |
| bgtr4 | even though i use gmail for work and registrations and not personal stuff | May 03 16:54 |
| bgtr4 | ’cause i don’t kare about work and registrations and not personal stuff | May 03 16:55 |
| schestowitz | re: “Microsoft CEO knows Charlotte’s place to be” –anything ‘funny’ here? | May 03 16:55 |
| Charlotte is supposed to be a nice place. | May 03 16:56 | |
| schestowitz | Microsoft’s mall feels like a cult, elitist | May 03 16:56 |
| bgtr4 | schestowitz, m$ ceos already know everything about m$ | May 03 16:56 |
| snip snip snip, why won’t my shift key work anymore? better code a touper http://media.komonews.com/images/0… | May 03 16:56 | |
| schestowitz | Why share when you can make exclusive club | May 03 16:56 |
| schestowitz | Us peons can’t invade them programmers of MAFIAA’s DRM. | May 03 16:56 |
| bgtr4 | but they are willing to sell themselves for money | May 03 16:56 |
| schestowitz | [in reponse] But malls ARE like the churches in much of the States | May 03 16:57 |
| getten FAT at the mall. | May 03 16:57 | |
| schestowitz | It’s a common argument that people socialise around commerce when they are raised to be that way | May 03 16:58 |
| bgtr4 | don’t mix true churches with smth artificial | May 03 16:58 |
| bgtr4 | that looks like it | May 03 16:58 |
| I’ve never understood why some people think of shopping as a form of entertainment. | May 03 16:58 | |
| bgtr4 | s0c1alise… | May 03 16:58 |
| bgtr4 | they live like that | May 03 16:59 |
| bgtr4 | that’s the only thing that they are capable of | May 03 16:59 |
| bgtr4 | money | May 03 16:59 |
| schestowitz | It’s not for people to think | May 03 16:59 |
| schestowitz | It’s for people to be told what to think | May 03 16:59 |
| schestowitz | And how to admire or judge people | May 03 16:59 |
| bgtr4 | lol | May 03 16:59 |
| schestowitz | Video clips have that effect too | May 03 16:59 |
| bgtr4 | no? | May 03 16:59 |
| hanging out at market places older than the Agora, but it was a free and open place | May 03 16:59 | |
| bgtr4 | it’s more than that | May 03 17:00 |
| exclusivity is pure greed | May 03 17:00 | |
| bgtr4 | but it’s still money | May 03 17:00 |
| schestowitz | It goes back o glamorisation of consumption in the early 20th century. | May 03 17:00 |
| schestowitz | You could raise kids to alienate spenders if you chracterise them as environment parasites | May 03 17:00 |
| schestowitz | It all boils down to education | May 03 17:00 |
| schestowitz | There was experiments around all that | May 03 17:00 |
| bgtr4 | lol, there were plenty of experiments | May 03 17:01 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 03 17:01 |
| schestowitz | But trying to raise siblings separately in different environments/conditions | May 03 17:01 |
| bgtr4 | so funny to read this stuff in boycottnovell. people are talking very sane things but not yet grown up enough | May 03 17:01 |
| schestowitz | To see how much of one’s behaviour is imposed and what it inherent | May 03 17:01 |
| schestowitz | Like fear of the dark for example | May 03 17:01 |
| bgtr4 | and by “grown up” i mean grown up in understanding what this world is | May 03 17:02 |
| schestowitz | Who? Us? | May 03 17:02 |
| bgtr4 | and i hate what’s going with this world | May 03 17:02 |
| bgtr4 | yup, schestowitz | May 03 17:02 |
| schestowitz | bgtr4: wait, let me get this right | May 03 17:02 |
| bgtr4 | you’re doing allright | May 03 17:02 |
| bgtr4 | going way up | May 03 17:02 |
| schestowitz | Acceptance leads to biased judgment | May 03 17:02 |
| bgtr4 | i’m just looking at it all from above | May 03 17:02 |
| bgtr4 | and i’m biased | May 03 17:03 |
| lol, I think someone just told me to grow up. | May 03 17:03 | |
| schestowitz | “People said I should accept the world. Bullshit! I don’t accept the world.” — Richard Stallman | May 03 17:03 |
| schestowitz | RMS never left MIT | May 03 17:03 |
| bgtr4 | biased towards good way that you accept | May 03 17:03 |
| schestowitz | Same with others like Chomsky | May 03 17:03 |
| bgtr4 | rms is immature then | May 03 17:03 |
| schestowitz | It doesn’t mean they are stupid | May 03 17:03 |
| bgtr4 | you either accept the world or it fucks you up until you accept XD | May 03 17:03 |
| RMS has made the world he wants. Thats a very adult thing to do. | May 03 17:03 | |
| schestowitz | They don’t need to work for some tyranny or join the army to be able to criticise it | May 03 17:03 |
| Living in the world others make for you is childish. | May 03 17:04 | |
| bgtr4 | actually, nope | May 03 17:04 |
| bgtr4 | children can as well be open/closed to anything | May 03 17:04 |
| bgtr4 | it’s just that children didn’t lose belief in themselves | May 03 17:05 |
| You’ve convinced me. I think I’m going to go jump in my SUV and buy something at the mall. That way, I’ll feel like I’m part of the community. | May 03 17:05 | |
| bgtr4 | nope? | May 03 17:05 |
| schestowitz | |
May 03 17:05 |
| schestowitz | bgtr4: ousiders’ view can help | May 03 17:05 |
| schestowitz | Where are you from if you don’t mind me asking? | May 03 17:05 |
| schestowitz | Many cultures look at us negatievly | May 03 17:05 |
| schestowitz | And they have reasonable judtification | May 03 17:05 |
| schestowitz | An African, for example, might say we’re too isolated | May 03 17:06 |
| schestowitz | Animals were not meant to be this way | May 03 17:06 |
| schestowitz | We cherish guns and money rather than folklore (well, many of us do) | May 03 17:06 |
| schestowitz | Football is considered tribal to some. Fast food is another oddity | May 03 17:06 |
| bgtr4 | guns are allright to fight with government passively | May 03 17:06 |
| schestowitz | All that judgment can actually make ‘civilised’ culture seem very abnormal | May 03 17:07 |
| schestowitz | Remember China+India make us like over 1/3 of the world | May 03 17:07 |
| schestowitz | *up | May 03 17:07 |
| schestowitz | Fight with government? | May 03 17:07 |
| schestowitz | Makes no sense | May 03 17:07 |
| bgtr4 | ? | May 03 17:07 |
| schestowitz | Government is the shadow cast upon people by other ‘big people’ | May 03 17:08 |
| bgtr4 | don’t you understand that? | May 03 17:08 |
| schestowitz | Like CEOs on top of large tyrannies like Exxon | May 03 17:08 |
| schestowitz | But that’s another long story | May 03 17:08 |
| bgtr4 | government is a self sufficient entity | May 03 17:08 |
| bgtr4 | and it was always like that | May 03 17:08 |
| schestowitz | It’s subsidiary | May 03 17:08 |
| bgtr4 | ALWAYS | May 03 17:08 |
| schestowitz | The police+army weird power in Police State | May 03 17:08 |
| schestowitz | But otherwise they can act at the behest of power and might of multintional | May 03 17:09 |
| schestowitz | They usually _do_ | May 03 17:09 |
| schestowitz | bgtr4: well, here’s another way | May 03 17:09 |
| OMG. The bridge to M$ was designed to connect M$ campus to the M$ mall. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mic… | May 03 17:09 | |
| holy fucking shit. | May 03 17:09 | |
| schestowitz | To say government you need to think of it as bunch of seats | May 03 17:09 |
| bgtr4 | … | May 03 17:09 |
| schestowitz | Those who accomodate those vacancies are either ex-executives or their friends/cronies/lunch partner, etc. | May 03 17:10 |
| they convinced the city, state and federal government to build them a bridge to their private mall! | May 03 17:10 | |
| schestowitz | twitter: and the mall if MS-only | May 03 17:10 |
| schestowitz | MS did a big PR campign | May 03 17:10 |
| schestowitz | Having some voices from the area saying it’s not only for MS | May 03 17:10 |
| For now, workers on the east side of 520 can head west by crossing the overpass at Northeast 40th Street or taking a Microsoft shuttle. The company is planning to build a bridge over the freeway. The bridge, to be completed next year, would run from Northeast 36th Street on the west to Northeast 31st Street on the east. Those plans continue even after Microsoft announced 5,000 job cuts and scrapped some real-estate expansion plan | May 03 17:10 | |
| schestowitz | It’s for the citizens too, they remarked | May 03 17:10 |
| schestowitz | Yeah… maybe to watch from over the fence with the “no dogs and non-MS employees allowed on the premises” | May 03 17:11 |
| yeah, any “citizen” who happens to work on one side of M$’s campus and wants to visit the M$ only mall on the other side. | May 03 17:11 | |
| bgtr4 | what’s m$ population at 2k and 2009 years? | May 03 17:11 |
| daytime population of 50,000 according to quoted article | May 03 17:11 | |
| schestowitz | 90k | May 03 17:11 |
| schestowitz | Not much | May 03 17:11 |
| schestowitz | IBM is over 300k | May 03 17:11 |
| schestowitz | Even Siemans is bigger IIRC | May 03 17:12 |
| schestowitz | MS just makes a lot of press | May 03 17:12 |
| schestowitz | Like oiaohm says, it’s a marketing company | May 03 17:12 |
| bgtr4 | strange… | May 03 17:12 |
| Show me a town of 50,000 people elsewhere in the US that merits a bridge to a private mall. | May 03 17:12 | |
| schestowitz | Relying on crime, cheating, acisitions of products (pseudo development) and MARKETING. | May 03 17:12 |
| Fraud for a living. | May 03 17:12 | |
| schestowitz | The lawyers come into place when the crime becomes too visible and you need to take over | May 03 17:12 |
| schestowitz | Google is similar BTW | May 03 17:13 |
| bgtr4 | they would have to kill each other | May 03 17:13 |
| schestowitz | 20k employees | May 03 17:13 |
| schestowitz | Buying its way into the market | May 03 17:13 |
| schestowitz | People LOVE GOOG because of search product | May 03 17:13 |
| schestowitz | Number 1 brnad in US now | May 03 17:13 |
| schestowitz | Over $100bn for the brnad alone | May 03 17:13 |
| schestowitz | They rely on it | May 03 17:13 |
| yeah, it’s interesting how people like things that work and do useful things | May 03 17:13 | |
| bgtr4 | twitter, and they don’t think what’s behind that | May 03 17:14 |
| schestowitz | They can make sub-standard products like Apps and people will give other SaaS suites the pass because “it’s not Google” | May 03 17:14 |
| Google’s monopoly is not forced, it is natural. | May 03 17:14 | |
| bgtr4 | REALLY? | May 03 17:14 |
| schestowitz | I agree with bgtr4 | May 03 17:14 |
| schestowitz | To an extent | May 03 17:14 |
| schestowitz | You’re pressed to compete | May 03 17:14 |
| really, who forces you to use Google? | May 03 17:14 | |
| bgtr4 | lol | May 03 17:15 |
| schestowitz | You’d need capital of like 50bn just to build indexed and DCs | May 03 17:15 |
| bgtr4 | twitter, i hope you didn’t want to ask that | May 03 17:15 |
| schestowitz | *dexes | May 03 17:15 |
| schestowitz | Google is another problem altogether | May 03 17:15 |
| It’s not like OEMs are forced to install Google only search bars and you can’t buy computers that work with Google competitors. | May 03 17:15 | |
| schestowitz | MS: technical lockin | May 03 17:15 |
| schestowitz | Force of use via patents, no interop | May 03 17:15 |
| schestowitz | Google is habitual dependencies | May 03 17:16 |
| schestowitz | If it kills ad/search competition, which it might do, then it’s another scenario | May 03 17:16 |
| Google continues to exist and thrive despite M$’s long efforts to crush them. | May 03 17:16 | |
| People go to great lengths to use Google on M$ platforms. | May 03 17:16 | |
| schestowitz | Google is scary to some startups | May 03 17:16 |
| bgtr4 | google will not be taken by m$ just because it’s funded and there’s quite a different idea behind that | May 03 17:16 |
| schestowitz | Mostly Web/mashup companies | May 03 17:16 |
| schestowitz | benJIman: Taken by? | May 03 17:17 |
| schestowitz | *bg | May 03 17:17 |
| schestowitz | It’s almost the same market cap now | May 03 17:17 |
| schestowitz | If anything, Google could one day by MSFT | May 03 17:17 |
| schestowitz | Some people joke about it | May 03 17:17 |
| FUD | May 03 17:17 | |
| schestowitz | But look at Sun 8 years later | May 03 17:17 |
| the problems are network freedom related | May 03 17:18 | |
| and M$ | May 03 17:18 | |
| bgtr4 | dudes, you’re talking so many smart words, i’ve to look them in the dictionary even though i intuitively understand what they mean | May 03 17:18 |
