From: Lionel Bartlett <email@example.com;
To: GERMAN¥.DUS(Claus Schinabeck)
Date: Mon, Jan 19, 1998 4:26 AM
Subject: NDS on NT - Microsofts Story
** High Priority **
Thanks for the effort you made to get me the info I needed before the
ATS training. The training was very valuable!
Please verify the ’NDS on NT’ attached mail from Microsoft!!
Please send me Cutris’s email address. I’m not sure of the spelling of
Telkom SA Ltd.
Received: from qit-ul-0104.telkom.co.za ([220.127.116.11])
by telkom32.telkom.co.za (GroupWise SMTP/MIME daemon 4.1 v3)
; Tue, 13 Jan 98 19:00:19 ZAT
Received: from mail2.microsoft.com (mail2.microsoft.com [18.104.22.168])
by qit-ul-0104.telkom.co.za (8.8.5/1997111401) with ESMTP id TAA00843;
Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:00:08 +0200
Received: by INET-02-1MC with Intemet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3)
id <C5WG198B>; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:00:07"-0800
<5B3F16B2D B67D1119AOD00805F312AA2070101 @ red-msg-58.dns.microsoft.com>
Deferred-Delivery: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:00:00 -0800
Return-Receipt-To: Eamie Glazener <firstname.lastname@example.org>
X-Mailer: Intemet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 02:21:14 +0200
From: Eamie Glazener <email@example.com>
Cc: firstname.lastname@example.org,email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org
Subject: RE: BackOffice News- December 2, 1997-Reply
You may also be interested in
- Original Message----
> From: Eamie Glazener
> Sent: Monday, January 12, 1998 4:07 PM
> To: ’email@example.com’
> Cc: Gerald Murphy; Bill Renaud; ’firstname.lastname@example.org’
> Subject: FW: BackOffice News- December 2, 1997-Reply
> - PLEASE NOTE THE INFORMATION IN THIS MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL AND
SUBJECT TO YOUR EXISTING NDA WITH MICROSOFT-
Lionel, we had a great time in SA. Thank you for spending some time with
us and for listening to what we had to say. Sorry you somehow got the
impression that Peter and I were chancers. We certainly did not and do
not intend to mislead you in any way.
The fact is NDS on NT is reverse engineered. The SAM APIs are not
exposed, so the only way to develop a replacement for SAMSRV is through
reverse engineering the APIs based on analysis of the running system,
decoding of entry points and call frames, and other related techniques
- not through documentation and SDKs. Anyone who tells you differently
is the true chancer in this case.
> Your observation about the current version of NDS on NT is astute.
You may be interested in these additional observations:
1. SAM APIs are subject to change. Installation of a service pack could,
for example, install an updated SAMSRV.DLL and effectively disconnect
the DC in question from NDS.
2. Since the SAM APIs are not exposed there is a high probability that
some SAM operations are not covered by the replacement SAMSRV. The
impact of this is difficult to assess without exhaustive testing.
3. In the case of a single NDS user being granted access to multiple
domains, the same user, "JamesSmith" would appear in the context of each
"trusted domain" selected. A Windows NT ACL could have entries for
Domain1\JamesSmith, Domain2\JamesSmith, and Domain3\JamesSmith. All
three are in fact the same user, but with different SIDs.
4. Windows NT Groups are not NDS groups. To make a group visible in
Windows NT the administrator must create an IWSam group as a child of a
domain object. Only users can be added to IWSam groups.
5. An administrator must use multiple tools for administration due to
missing functionality in NDS for NT
¯ 6. ADSI supports NDS, but ADSI does not expose the SID, password
residue, and other items required to migrate a Windows NT domain to
NDS. This means the migration process is via the UI, and the current UI
makes this quite laborious.
¯ 7. Since NDS for NT must support all Windows NT clients, not just
Windows NT clients with the IntranetWare client installed, Novell must
maintain 2 passwords for every user:, a Windows NT password and an NDS
password. From Novell’s own announcement documents it is clear this is a
¯ compromise solution that is far from transparent to the user.
8. Every domain controller for a given Windows NT domain must have the
NDS for Windows NT components installed so that all authentication and
authorization operations are redirected to NDS. It is not clear what the
system behavior will be in a partially migrated domain (e.g. some DCs
with NDS for NT and some without).
9. Network traffic for Windows NT authentication and authorization
doubles. Each SAM operation at a DC results in an least one additional
round trip between the DC and a NetWare server.
¯ 10. This will not work on Windows NT Server 5.0. Novell has made
assurances that installing NDS for NT will not hinder an upgrade to
Active Directory. This is incorrect. The upgrade from Windows NT Server
4.0 to Windows kiT Server 5.0 converts the SAM by reading it directly,
not by calling SAM APIs. The users and groups created in NDS will not be
picked up in the upgrade (assuming the upgrade can even begin with the
hacked SAMSRV installed, which is unlikely). NDS for NT users will be
faced with a second migration after installing Windows NT Server 5.0, to
bring the NDS users into Active Directory.
Furthermore, there are multiple paths into the authorization and
authentication system in Windows NT Server 5.0, there is no single place
to trap and redirect these operations. A Windows NT Server 5.0 version
of NDS for NT will require a total rewrite, and there is little
motivation for this since Windows NT Server 5.0 comes with Active Directory.
11. NDS for NT is not a mainstream product. It is a point solution that
¯appears to be designed to appeal to NetWare customers with an expanding
base of Windows NT servers supporting applications like Exchange. While
NDS for NT might be appealing as a stopgap measure to provide more ¯
centralized administration of Windows NT domains, the substantial
expense, questionable stability, and dead-end nature of the
implementation all argue against it.
You saw and heard from us how NT domains can meet your needs effectively
today; provide acceptable administrator support, and provide far better
application support than NDS. The story gets even better with NT5. I
strongly urge you to consider a move to NT4 today both for the benefits
NT ¯ offers today and as a means of positioning Telkom for a smooth
migration to NT5. You will be happy you did.
Once again, thank you for the great time we had in SA. We look forward
to seeing you again the next time we are in Johannesburg.
Enterprise Customer Unit
From: Lionel Bartlett [SMTP:email@example.com]
Sent: Fdday, December 05, 1997 7:58 AM
To: Gerald Murphy
Subject: BackOffice News- December 2, 1997
Thanks for the news.
Those Microsoft Consultants you brought over here are chancers. NDS on
NT is not reverse engineered, it makes use of Microsoft RPC technology.
The current version of NDS on NT isn’t that great anyway.
Telkom SA Ltd.
¯ * NT5 will be released...hmmm... 2000-2999
court documents in the case of Comes v. Microsoft.