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schestowitz-TRi have just added to the git index in gemini the chat client and web siteFeb 25 03:47
schestowitz-TRstuff so there are now 10 'sub-projects' thereFeb 25 03:47
schestowitzgemini://gemini.techrights.org/git/tr-git/Feb 25 03:59
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activelow2022-02-25 06:19:11 [_techrights] |CLIENTNOTICES| -!- Irssi: Public Key Fingerprint: 49:D0:ED:73:95:B2:7C:23:E8:F7:2F:0F:3F:F2:43:10:FC:6C:44:9E:70:B1:DA:BF:AE:2C:61:AD:F3:BA:E3:88 (SHA256)Feb 25 06:20
activelow2022-02-25 06:19:11 [_techrights] |CLIENTNOTICES| -!- Irssi: Certificate Fingerprint: 46:B6:0B:33:6D:B6:00:5F:03:B5:2E:66:7E:37:52:13:EC:47:9B:24:79:DA:0F:C5:45:A8:B2:CB:60:46:F2:BE (SHA256)Feb 25 06:20
activelow2022-02-25 06:19:11 |CLIENTERRORS| -!- Irssi: warning   Pinned certificate mismatchFeb 25 06:20
activelow2022-02-25 06:19:11 [_techrights] |CLIENTNOTICES| -!- Irssi: Connection lost to 23.161.112.117Feb 25 06:20
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schestowitz-TRhi, gmFeb 25 11:03
schestowitz-TRI wanted to ask,Feb 25 11:03
schestowitz-TRdo you have experience dealing with gemini on a synicication/subscription basis?Feb 25 11:03
schestowitz-TRI'm new to that, but I see some people do in fact follow our capsule using the  Feb 25 11:03
schestowitz-TRfeedsFeb 25 11:03
schestowitz-TRpage Feb 25 11:03
Techrights-secNo I have not looked into syndication at all.  Feb 25 11:04
schestowitz-TRok, how about this?Feb 25 11:05
schestowitz-TRI look into it, maybe explain how that works, and then make a long list ofFeb 25 11:05
schestowitz-TRso-called 'feeds' for gemini so that other people can find which capsules/peopleFeb 25 11:05
schestowitz-TRto follow...Feb 25 11:05
schestowitz-TRheck.Feb 25 11:08
schestowitz-TRwe might even wish to create our own syndication list and make it publicFeb 25 11:08
schestowitz-TRiirc, spacewalk does thisFeb 25 11:08
Techrights-secokFeb 25 11:09
Techrights-secIt would be an option.  Is there documentation on writing a syndication service?Feb 25 11:09
schestowitz-TRthat is what I do not know aboutFeb 25 11:09
schestowitz-TRiirc, there is a multitude of ways to "syndicate"Feb 25 11:09
schestowitz-TRand no unified wayFeb 25 11:09
schestowitz-TRlet aloner a unified set of clientsFeb 25 11:09
Techrights-secAnd the mailing list is still missing in actionFeb 25 11:25
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/glynmoody/status/1497166461391024177Feb 25 11:35
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@glynmoody: @schestowitz no need to migrate, I have other platforms; I'll leave everything as it is, wait for it to come back...Feb 25 11:35
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/AlfazAdil/status/1497145557311455232Feb 25 11:36
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@AlfazAdil: @schestowitz To prevent false flag attacks by the desperate Ukrainian forces. Everything they are doing makes sense… https://t.co/knrlwA5DMEFeb 25 11:36
schestowitzI am writing to you, a valued thinker who has long observed the Net and the Web, about JoinDiaspora (and more).Feb 25 11:48
schestowitzAs you may be aware, JoinDiaspora will shut down and their plan it to help people migrate the account to other pods. All "friends" etc. will be lost, but posts and comments are supposed to be preserved (they write code to that effect, I believe). This is work in progress.Feb 25 11:48
schestowitzI have two accounts in that pod. The Linux account (official), and my own, which put together probably have close to 900,000 posts and hundreds of thousands of comments.Feb 25 11:48
schestowitzLately I've been thinking whether it's even worth posting in all those sites at all, seeing that the traffic they bring is nothing like what it was a decade ago (judging by your account in Twitter and in JoinDiaspora), you too are experiencing this.Feb 25 11:48
schestowitzShould we invest time and effort in what might be a passing fad whose time may be running out?Feb 25 11:48
schestowitzI don't want to take up much of your time, but given you're in a similar situation a short paragraph would help me form a decision. Next Friday around 8PM JoinDiaspora goes offline.Feb 25 11:48
schestowitzRegards,Feb 25 11:48
schestowitzCC Rianne (TuxMachines)Feb 25 11:48
Techrights-secA lot of old discussions from the 1990s about digital preservation would beFeb 25 11:59
Techrights-secrelevant to dust off and republish.  Unfortunately with such servicesFeb 25 11:59
Techrights-secthe preservation strategy has to be planned from be beginning and built intoFeb 25 11:59
Techrights-secthe very design.  As with all things, complexity makes preservation harder.Feb 25 11:59
Techrights-secMigration is one well-known preservation strategy.Feb 25 11:59
Techrights-sechowever with each migration or layer of emulation, material gets lost.  SoFeb 25 12:01
Techrights-secwith archives, one of the key decisions made when accepting material is howFeb 25 12:01
Techrights-seclong it should be kept for and in what state.Feb 25 12:01
activelowdigital preservation is an oxymoronFeb 25 12:03
schestowitz-TRas you are well aware, since pleroma.site blew up I've kept my postings from JD Feb 25 12:03
schestowitz-TRin schestowitz.com in addition to the static file we have in techrightsFeb 25 12:03
schestowitz-TRtechrights also has an extensive archive of tweets syndicated using the botFeb 25 12:03
schestowitz-TRbuilt by Toby until Twitter gotr all nasty towards APIs in 2018Feb 25 12:03
Techrights-secyes.Feb 25 12:04
Techrights-secyes.Feb 25 12:04
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schestowitz-TRI wonder if the US LoC is still making any physical copies like printoutsFeb 25 12:06
schestowitz-TRof stuff it purports to be preservingFeb 25 12:06
schestowitz-TRI can imagine that due to scale (it did archive tweets until a Nazi becameFeb 25 12:06
schestowitz-TR"Twitter public guardian number one") it boilds down to lip serviceFeb 25 12:06
Techrights-secProbably not. Feb 25 12:07
schestowitz-TRviera was developed by kaniini to synidicatre over to irc/freenode from  pleromaFeb 25 12:09
schestowitz-TRI still have the code, but I think it is online already (elsewere)Feb 25 12:10
schestowitz-TRand there is no much use to it, not even by usFeb 25 12:10
Techrights-secI have not looked at Viera at all.  IRC is quite ephemeral.Feb 25 12:11
schestowitzI bet to differ. IRC, USENET, and even gopher managed to preserve TONS of stuff compared to the Web (where we rely too much on IA for history). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EphemeralityFeb 25 12:16
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-en.wikipedia.org | Ephemerality - WikipediaFeb 25 12:16
schestowitz-TR*beg to differFeb 25 12:16
Techrights-secthat is the result of services tacked onto IRC and Usenet not anything inherentFeb 25 12:22
Techrights-secto either.          Feb 25 12:22
Techrights-secThe relative simplicity of the technology facilitates prservation just likeFeb 25 12:22
Techrights-secthe original WWW did with HTML+CSS and  *no* javascript.Feb 25 12:22
Techrights-secThere was DejaNews for a while but it got subsumed by Google and then not sureFeb 25 12:22
Techrights-sechow much is left of that.  Feb 25 12:22
Techrights-secGoogle's archive is not so accessible.  Feb 25 12:23
schestowitz-TRyes, it has been technically simple and cheap, esp. when small (by today's scaleFeb 25 12:23
schestowitz-TR) drives were still pricey and not so reliableFeb 25 12:23
schestowitz-TRmaybe that was a (partly) bueiness decisionFeb 25 12:23
schestowitz-TRcompetitive edgeFeb 25 12:23
schestowitzFirst the mailing list diesFeb 25 12:24
schestowitzempty promises of recoveryFeb 25 12:24
schestowitzempty promises of resumptionFeb 25 12:24
schestowitznow: "gemini.circumlunar.space took too long to respond."Feb 25 12:24
schestowitzI think it's not a temporary issueFeb 25 12:25
schestowitzI think it keeps happeningFeb 25 12:25
Techrights-secCould be.  It happened shortly before Google went south.Feb 25 12:26
Techrights-secYes, I've noticed that too.Feb 25 12:26
activelowif you're concerned about digital presevation: nilfs2, disable all garbage collection, and verify checksums with some fsck utility (easily implemented)Feb 25 12:26
activelowcannot comprehend, why any other filesystem design is considered, since when linux kernel implemented itFeb 25 12:27
schestowitz-TRlook at it like thisFeb 25 12:27
schestowitz-TRgemini is inherently NOT centralisedFeb 25 12:27
schestowitz-TRwhen the spec was neglected for a year other people wanted to fork itFeb 25 12:27
schestowitz-TRthat's when solderpunk came backFeb 25 12:27
schestowitz-TRand then the mailing list diedFeb 25 12:27
schestowitz-TRso radio silence againFeb 25 12:27
schestowitz-TRthe space keeps growingFeb 25 12:27
schestowitz-TRbut there is no official news siteFeb 25 12:28
schestowitz-TRno leadershipFeb 25 12:28
Techrights-secI can't speculate on th ecauses, though, even if the large corporate interests  Feb 25 12:28
Techrights-secfight anything which aims to re-decentralize the net.Feb 25 12:28
Techrights-secShould TR set up mailman or similar and run a list for Gemini? Sympa, too.Feb 25 12:28
schestowitz-TRit would (maybe rightly) be perceived as a hostile takeover attemptFeb 25 12:32
schestowitz-TRI'd sayFeb 25 12:32
schestowitz-TRLet's make another "spacewalk"Feb 25 12:32
schestowitz-TRas the original is not there afaictFeb 25 12:32
schestowitz-TRwe already routinely cover gemini stuff and newsFeb 25 12:32
schestowitz-TRa "spacewalk" would help give voice to many capsulesFeb 25 12:32
schestowitz-TRlike salim announcing that fedora now has lagrange in the reposFeb 25 12:32
schestowitz-TRmailing lists are a logistical nightmareFeb 25 12:32
schestowitz-TReven joindiaspora struggled with mailFeb 25 12:32
schestowitz-TRas you need to juimp through many hoops and even thenFeb 25 12:32
schestowitz-TRyou can face aggressions from microsofters an gulagersFeb 25 12:32
schestowitz-TRalso, mailman archives are htmlFeb 25 12:32
schestowitz-TRwhich is contrary to what gemini is aboutFeb 25 12:32
schestowitz-TRso gnu mailman would inherently be biased against geminiFeb 25 12:32
schestowitz-TRand cause another such diusasterFeb 25 12:32
schestowitz-TRlike loss of community';s historyFeb 25 12:32
Techrights-sec:(Feb 25 12:33
Techrights-secI did not use "spacewalk" so muchFeb 25 12:33
Techrights-secmicrosoft will always (ALWAYS) try to control and destroy *all* projects no   Feb 25 12:33
Techrights-secmatter how small, especially if the project does not funnel people intoFeb 25 12:33
Techrights-secthe M$ market.Feb 25 12:33
schestowitz-TRpsydroid helped us understand the role Microsoft played in gemini around 2020, not just later in 2021Feb 25 12:33
schestowitz-TRmy email is managed on my own domain on  a shared RH servrsFeb 25 12:34
schestowitz-TRthey too are fighting the blacklistsFeb 25 12:34
schestowitz-TRmailing lists are not what they once wereFeb 25 12:34
schestowitz-TRwe need a gemini-first approach, with web proxyFeb 25 12:34
Techrights-secThe archive module could also make static Gemini pages, but that'd takeFeb 25 12:36
Techrights-seca lot of storage space since Gemini does not compress the back end AFAIKFeb 25 12:36
Techrights-secCGI is not appropriate for GeminiFeb 25 12:36
Techrights-secWeb proxieds are just a temporary effort, a transition fill the gap betweenFeb 25 12:36
Techrights-secnow and the time when Gemini clients are easily available in the Debian (andFeb 25 12:36
Techrights-secderivative) repositories.Feb 25 12:36
schestowitz-TRI am goin toFeb 25 12:38
schestowitz-TR1) research feeds a bitFeb 25 12:38
schestowitz-TR2) harvest some 'feeds'Feb 25 12:38
schestowitz-TRmake a prototype of some kindFeb 25 12:38
schestowitz-TRmaybe a "Gemini News" section for techrights which somehoe organises new postsFeb 25 12:38
schestowitz-TRfrom that, later, I can cheery pick items for Daily LinksFeb 25 12:38
schestowitz-TRmaybe in due course that "page" will become handy for other peopleFeb 25 12:38
schestowitz-TRemail does not scaleFeb 25 12:38
schestowitz-TRit scatters a lot of stuff to people who would not read itFeb 25 12:38
schestowitz-TRconditional upon delivery by hostile hopping pointsFeb 25 12:38
schestowitz-TRwhich can beget 'gentlte' and 'oft' censorshipFeb 25 12:38
Techrights-secackFeb 25 12:38
schestowitz-TRpolitical and business-oirientedFeb 25 12:38
schestowitz-TRbiabFeb 25 12:39
schestowitzgemini.circumlunar.space/docs/companion/subscription.gmi down at the moment, but I believe it specifies what amfora is using or latching ontoFeb 25 13:06
schestowitzeither way, we want to syndicate onto a page Feb 25 13:06
schestowitzrather than a clientFeb 25 13:06
schestowitzright?Feb 25 13:06
Techrights-secI'd ahve to read up on syndication in GeminiFeb 25 13:19
schestowitzhttps://nnix.com/x/geminispace.info/known-feedsFeb 25 13:19
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-nnix.com | geminispace.info - Gemini Search EngineFeb 25 13:19
schestowitzhttps://sr.ht/~sircmpwn/gemreader/Feb 25 13:22
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-sr.ht | gemreader: A feed reader hosted on GeminiFeb 25 13:22
schestowitzgemini://feeds.drewdevault.comFeb 25 13:23
schestowitz-TRhttps://www.theregister.com/2022/01/27/gemini_protocol/ Feb 25 13:36
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.theregister.com | New protocol Gemini's users panned for being exclusionary • The RegisterFeb 25 13:36
Techrights-secackFeb 25 13:36
Techrights-secfigures The Register would have to fabricate a negative spinFeb 25 13:36
schestowitz-TRwe should really worry that Liam did thisFeb 25 13:37
schestowitz-TRas he should know betterFeb 25 13:37
schestowitz-TRaccessibility and allFeb 25 13:37
schestowitz-TRhe is pro-LinuxFeb 25 13:37
schestowitz-TRmaybe he read something somewhere hostileFeb 25 13:37
schestowitz-TRsuch as 'hacker' noiseFeb 25 13:37
Techrights-secHN is M$ propaganda almost exclusively but with a small sampling of other stuffFeb 25 13:39
Techrights-secto keep people's attention and provide deniabilityFeb 25 13:39
schestowitz-TRi am not able to find any program that would take that long list of xml fgiles,Feb 25 13:40
schestowitz-TRover gemini://Feb 25 13:40
schestowitz-TRand then turn that into a list of items, clickableFeb 25 13:40
schestowitz-TRI reckon with xml parsers in poerl it would be as easy as pieFeb 25 13:40
schestowitz-TRbasically dump that list inmto a fileFeb 25 13:40
schestowitz-TRthen grab one by oneFeb 25 13:40
schestowitz-TRcull by dateFeb 25 13:40
schestowitz-TRonce every 24 hoursFeb 25 13:40
schestowitz-TR=> geminiaddress titleFeb 25 13:40
schestowitzexample in gemini://midnight.pub/feed.xmlFeb 25 13:42
schestowitzfrom that, only a pair is neededFeb 25 13:43
schestowitztitle and URIFeb 25 13:43
Techrights-secGemini is for GemText.Feb 25 13:43
Techrights-secThe changes that have been needed in the WWW for 25 years areFeb 25 13:43
Techrights-sec1) generic XML of any DTDFeb 25 13:43
Techrights-sec2) stylesheets for the aboveFeb 25 13:43
Techrights-sec3) stateful http Feb 25 13:43
Techrights-secThere were generic SGML rendering engines back in the middle 1990s. Feb 25 13:43
Techrights-secDoing XML should be simpler from a programming perspective, but it would stillFeb 25 13:43
Techrights-secbe no small task.  Then the browser could display XHTML, DocBook, ODF, and soFeb 25 13:43
Techrights-secon.  No scripting.  They've squanders so many resources on scripting and muchFeb 25 13:43
Techrights-secof that is trying to make up for the statelessness of HTTP.  HTTP/3 is over UDPFeb 25 13:43
Techrights-secand so even the network connection is stateless, going the wrong direction  Feb 25 13:43
Techrights-secand pushing the heavy lifting further up the stack where it is less efficientFeb 25 13:43
Techrights-secand more error prone.Feb 25 13:43
Techrights-secThat's just a normal Atom feed.  That's easy to whip up in Perl.  Feb 25 13:44
schestowitz-TRcan you easily retrieve the object with perl on debian?Feb 25 13:45
schestowitz-TRif so, we can easily make an aggregator in perlFeb 25 13:45
schestowitz-TRand then use thatFeb 25 13:45
schestowitz-TR1) for usFeb 25 13:45
schestowitz-TR2) for Daily LinksFeb 25 13:45
schestowitz-TR3) for others who might look for newsFeb 25 13:45
schestowitz-TRit would also help thgose capsules through backlinksFeb 25 13:45
Techrights-secFrom the file system?  Yes.Feb 25 13:46
Techrights-secOr do you mean make an aggregator for gemini feeds?Feb 25 13:46
Techrights-secIt would be feasible to convert Atom and RSS feeds to Gemtext with active links.Feb 25 13:46
schestowitz-TRyesterday was far too hectic on m,any frotns, but I wanted to do this and it causFeb 25 13:48
schestowitz-TRedFeb 25 13:48
schestowitz-TRoverloadFeb 25 13:48
schestowitz-TR https://nnix.com/x/geminispace.info/known-feedsFeb 25 13:48
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-nnix.com | geminispace.info - Gemini Search EngineFeb 25 13:48
schestowitz-TRsome of these that I tried are offline, but you can highlight text in page, pasteFeb 25 13:48
schestowitz-TR into text editorFeb 25 13:48
schestowitz-TRthen pass through them and convert to a long list of articlesFeb 25 13:48
schestowitz-TRif they are made chronological using the data fieldFeb 25 13:48
schestowitz-TRthen it'll be easier to follow "updates" or "new" additionsFeb 25 13:48
schestowitz-TRI've already put some gemini:// links int eh next batch of Daily LinksFeb 25 13:48
schestowitzgemini://november.smol.pub/atom.xmlFeb 25 13:50
Techrights-secI suppose the first step would be to make a feed generator for TRFeb 25 13:51
Techrights-secKeep in mind that GemText lacks much of any structure so all collectionFeb 25 13:51
Techrights-secof metadata, including title, will have to be done manually.  Feb 25 13:51
Techrights-secHowever, an aggregator can be made base on the Atom / RSS feeds.Feb 25 13:51
schestowitz-TRgemini://november.smol.pub/atom.xmlFeb 25 13:53
schestowitz-TRlagrange and amfora deal ok witiuh such objectsFeb 25 13:53
schestowitz-TRkristall does notFeb 25 13:53
schestowitz-TRbut if converted into gemtext they should all cope OKFeb 25 13:53
schestowitz-TRDeVault's stuff is go back end with cgi at serverFeb 25 13:53
schestowitz-TRso inapplicable to usFeb 25 13:53
schestowitz-TRbiab coffeeFeb 25 14:44
schestowitz-TRjust askin': are you planning to hack this or should I prototype something?Feb 25 14:44
Techrights-secI can take a lookFeb 25 14:45
schestowitz-TRpseudocodeFeb 25 14:47
schestowitz-TRtake list of feeds from tex file (source: URL above)Feb 25 14:47
schestowitz-TRretrieve xml fileFeb 25 14:47
schestowitz-TRprocess fields, make a pair or tuple, in case there is a dateFeb 25 14:47
schestowitz-TRrepeat for all feedsFeb 25 14:47
schestowitz-TRthen sort by datte of titleFeb 25 14:47
schestowitz-TRrepeat after a whileFeb 25 14:47
schestowitz-TRcome to thuink of it, a lot of what we use for last_rss can be reused there, Feb 25 15:01
schestowitz-TRwith a fetcher that uses another protocolFeb 25 15:01
schestowitz-TRannd maybe that can be added to automated feeds even?Feb 25 15:01
Techrights-secackFeb 25 15:38
Techrights-secyes some of itFeb 25 15:38
schestowitz> thanks for the email.Feb 25 16:28
schestowitz> Feb 25 16:28
schestowitz> I thought JoinDiaspora had been sorted for the moment?  But anyway, myFeb 25 16:28
schestowitz> thoughts if it hasn't.Feb 25 16:28
schestowitz> Feb 25 16:29
schestowitz> If the migration is simple - signing up, pressing button etc - I'llFeb 25 16:29
schestowitz> probably do it.  Even if followers are lost, I think it's quiteFeb 25 16:29
schestowitz> important for our posts to be there.  They are picked up by searchFeb 25 16:29
schestowitz> engines, and they basically seed information online.  It would be aFeb 25 16:29
schestowitz> shame for that to be lost - especially your huge number of posts.  IfFeb 25 16:29
schestowitz> it's complicated, I won't bother.Feb 25 16:29
schestowitz> Feb 25 16:29
schestowitz> Hope that helps.Feb 25 16:29
schestowitzThanks, yes! This was the upside I had in mind. With your intuition being so, I'll keep @tuxmachines and @schestowitz accounts going.Feb 25 16:29
schestowitzThey will basically ask you to download your archive some time next month. Then you upload it to another pod and carry on as before (but another domain), so this should not be too hard. They try to simplify the whole thing.Feb 25 16:29
schestowitzThe issue was, the first pod (joindiaspora) piled up too much bugs and 'hacks' over the years, which led to huge technical debt, as they explained 2 days ago. So they want to move the active account to a 'fresh' pod.Feb 25 16:29
schestowitzFor more information see http://techrights.org/2022/02/24/joindiaspora-technical-debt/Feb 25 16:29
schestowitzThanks for all the RTs in Twitter; For nearly 2 years now, as a matter of principle, I don't click anything there, so don't feel offended if I cannot recioprocate. I just export to it all my posts from diaspora.Feb 25 16:29
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-techrights.org | The End of JoinDiaspora. Thanks for All the Fish… | TechrightsFeb 25 16:29
schestowitzRegards,Feb 25 16:29
Techrights-secRSS or Atom for the TR gemini feed?Feb 25 16:52
schestowitz-TRah, you make a combined feed instead of a page? I suppose that's a ghood approachFeb 25 16:53
schestowitz-TR, as turning a combined feed into html or gemtext is not hardFeb 25 16:53
schestowitz-TRor maybe you make an XML file for the site/capsue?Feb 25 16:53
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Techrights-secYes, a feed for the site.Feb 25 19:21
Techrights-secI've added a script, gemini-make-feed.plFeb 25 19:57
Techrights-secIt runs manually using the settings in cron but cron seems to not run it.  Feb 25 19:57
Techrights-secI'm not sure what to debug there. Feb 25 19:57
Techrights-secOnce it's working in cron it can be added to GitFeb 25 19:57
Techrights-secThe script creates an RSS feed for the Gemini site.Feb 25 19:57
Techrights-secNext up, the feed aggregatorFeb 25 19:57
schestowitz-TRexcllent! Thank you!Feb 25 19:57
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Techrights-secnpFeb 25 20:12
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