IRC: #techbytes @ FreeNode: Sunday, March 07, 2021

-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-ipkitten.blogspot.com | A chaotic start to the eEQEs - The IPKat

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

41 Comments:

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

AnonymousTuesday, 2 March 2021 at 15:12:00 GMT

schestowitz__

It sounds suspiciously like some people didn't log in and familiarise themselves with the system beforehand. However, happy to be corrected!

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

Replies

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

AnonymousTuesday, 2 March 2021 at 15:38:00 GMT

schestowitz__

I'll happily correct you then. Despite practicing with the system ahead of time, only the German paper was made available to candidates at the start of the exam. Initially, even refreshing didn't allow candidates to access the other language of papers. And it wasn't just a few, it was ALL candidates. Only after the EQE secretariat had resolved the issue on their end could we refresh and see the English or French papers.

schestowitz__

Candidates do care about these exams, a lot, so have put in a lot of time to familiarising ourselves with the system. To just assume we'd not is frankly insulting and very presumptuous. This was not a candidate-side issue, but an EPO-side issue.

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

AnonymousTuesday, 2 March 2021 at 15:45:00 GMT

schestowitz__

Not the case, I had done 3 mocks and I can tell you that the option to choose the English or French version of the paper was not provided as in the previous mock exams. The only pdf available was the German version. After complaining I was told to refresh the browser and it solved the problem. £0 min extra time was added to compensate for the incidence.

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

AnonymousTuesday, 2 March 2021 at 15:55:00 GMT

schestowitz__

The EPO have reported that 50% of the candidates offered the opportunity to test the system did not do so. You can be as insulted as you like by my comment but the statistics show that not all candidates tested the system, or have the same view as you.

schestowitz__

Anonymous of 15:12

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

LiamLawlorTuesday, 2 March 2021 at 16:36:00 GMT

schestowitz__

A system wide error the EPO had to give us 30 extra minutes for on the fly, and you think it's because candidates didn't practice? The button to get the English version of the paper literally wasn't there.

schestowitz__

You're clearly just a bored troll. You might want to actually speak to some candidates before being so judgemental.

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

AnonymousTuesday, 2 March 2021 at 16:38:00 GMT

schestowitz__

As per the comment above, consider yourself corrected.

schestowitz__

Even if 50% of candidates did not test the systems beforehand (and you offer no evidence for that claim), it's nonetheless a completely irrelevant point. As Rose has has highlighted in her article, the issue experienced by candidates today was the result of "glitches" (i.e. human error) on the part of the eEQE organisers, who failed to make the paper available in anything other than German for the first 30 minutes of the exam.

schestowitz__

Whilst it's understandable that some technical issues may arise, such as the well reported problems associated with some external webcams (see, for instance, the corresponding Delta Patents blog post), the organisers of the eEQE should at least be capable of releasing the correct papers at the correct start times for each exam. This kind of basic error is not really acceptable, and serves only to disadvantage candidates, either

schestowitz__

directly or indirectly.

schestowitz__

Perhaps consider making fewer sneering comments trying to troll candidates who, by and large, are doing their upmost to adapt to exceptional and difficult circumstances.

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

CharlotteTuesday, 2 March 2021 at 19:46:00 GMT

schestowitz__

A comment on the statement "50% of all candidates did not test the system". From my understanding, this was said on the webinar of 11 Feb, i.e. well before the actual exam. I had also not tested the system on 11 Feb the reason for this being that I was still waiting for my web cam to arrive (I was a bit late in ordering one since the EPO had stated that we would be getting more info on the technical requirements for the webcam) and I

schestowitz__

wanted to test the system with my final setup, which was possible until 28th Feb. I have attended the 3 mock exams. Further, it may very well be that if you tested but did not hand in the paper for the mock (such that it would be available later on), this is not counted as "tested". This is all irrelevant to the problems that occurred during the D exam but still wanted to write this down as all of us have spent so much time in

schestowitz__

attending mock exams, webinars, reading 90 page documents on wiseflow etc... i also felt that this comment was very unfair.

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

AnonymousWednesday, 3 March 2021 at 19:42:00 GMT

schestowitz__

It isn't very nice just to say that we didn't test the system in advance. I did all the Mocks. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. I only wrote my answers in the Mock 1 software. I did it all, and I had the problem - I NEVER had such a problem before. Sorry, that isn't very nice just to say that some people didn't test it. I did it all. And I didn't get the English until 30 min in, AFTER I got the added time, it disappeared again. I complained, but I

schestowitz__

got kicked out of the system at 11 am.

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

AnonymousTuesday, 2 March 2021 at 15:21:00 GMT

schestowitz__

Some webcam glitches were also reported in the pre-EQE yesterday, though it seems that these weren't serious: http://saltedpatent.blogspot.com/2021/03/e-eqe-pre-exam-2021-scanned-copy-and.html?_sm_au_=iVV3DvqFw7MvN44HLHtGHKQ3T6M04

-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-saltedpatent.blogspot.com | Salted Patent: e-EQE - Pre-Exam 2021: copy to try yourself, and some technical problems

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

AnonymousTuesday, 2 March 2021 at 16:15:00 GMT

schestowitz__

German Candidates get 2 hours, English and French candidates get 1h30 - 1h45 while in a state of acute stress.. possibly in the worst nightmare scenario you can imagine for an exam... yeh that's completely fair.

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

Replies

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

AnonymousTuesday, 2 March 2021 at 16:22:00 GMT

schestowitz__

Not to mention being 1000th in the queue waiting for someone to help while all this is going on

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

JTuesday, 2 March 2021 at 17:15:00 GMT

schestowitz__

This happened to me in mock II for Paper C. I was sure I'd done everything the same as in Mock I, but after logging in and out several times (which I could only do because we had the invigilator password for the mock) it eventually came up in English. I told myself it was just the panic of the mock that made me miss the button, but it must have been this glitch.

schestowitz__

It is so horrible that this happened today and I don't know how they can fairly compensate candidates when German speakers were not affected in the first place AND had extra time.

schestowitz__

Let's hope it is sorted for the rest of the week.

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

UnknownTuesday, 2 March 2021 at 17:51:00 GMT

schestowitz__

I confirm, I tested the system with the 3 mocks and there always was the choice of pdf in en, fr or de. But this morning, no you only had the exam in de. For me, it was 10min lost and a high stress level before they told me to refresh the browser. Fingers crossed that this will be the only and last problem for this e-eqe session!

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

AnonymousTuesday, 2 March 2021 at 17:57:00 GMT

schestowitz__

It seems the three rounds of mock exams were not attended by the epo/eqe/wiseflow.

schestowitz__

Great start to the day followed by various further technical problems

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

UnknownTuesday, 2 March 2021 at 19:03:00 GMT

schestowitz__

I propose to group together to get real compensation for this totally unacceptable situation. To obtain fair compensation I propose to all candidates to join the LinkedIn group : NEVERAGAINEQE

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

AnonymousTuesday, 2 March 2021 at 19:50:00 GMT

schestowitz__

In addition to Delta Patents, Pete Pollard of the Salted Patent blog did a sterling job in keeping us informed and providing practical tips.

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

AnonymousTuesday, 2 March 2021 at 21:55:00 GMT

schestowitz__

The results that the EQE secretariat will issue from paper D's invigilation should not be admitted due to the differentiated treatment that has been given to candidates. If this is not possible, the members of the EQE secretariat need to be fired. Also, their ability to represent before or work for the EPO should be removed for two years (one for each year in which the affected candidates were not given the ability to do the EQE). If

schestowitz__

two years is too much, then one year. During this removal period, they should not receive any pay and the possibility of joining the EQE secretariat should never be available for them again.

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

Replies

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

AnonymousWednesday, 3 March 2021 at 09:25:00 GMT

schestowitz__

Yeah, why not hang them while we are at it... I did paper D and was affected by the bug too. But hey, there is one person that did a mistake with a computer and, yes, it sucks. But this kind of mistakes happens to everyone. May be you should chill out a bit.

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

TedThursday, 4 March 2021 at 11:48:00 GMT

schestowitz__

Making mistakes is a part of life. The first time ever that these exams were online, there were bound to be mistakes. I'm confident that there will be some form of semi-reasonable compensation.

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

AnonymousWednesday, 3 March 2021 at 07:27:00 GMT

schestowitz__

How could they screw up so completely? I mean it is so much that have to work in order to make this eEQE working, and they manage not to distribute the questions at the start of the exam. This must surely be the absolutely easiest part of the whole circus.

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

Replies

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

AnonymousFriday, 5 March 2021 at 05:19:00 GMT

schestowitz__

It is up to the EQE to show that this disastrous problem occurred despite all due care required by the serious circumstances that an exam is...

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

AnonymousWednesday, 3 March 2021 at 08:02:00 GMT

schestowitz__

I think this is what happened. At the start of the exam, the paper was only available in German for everyone. The chat instantly became overloaded. I believe at 9:36 they might have uploaded the English and French version. There is what the internal message system in Wiseflow (not chat) stated and asking candidates to refresh. However I believe there was a second mistake, in that this message was only received once the refresh was

schestowitz__

done. The message was received at 10.00 after refreshing. The end was first extended with 10 min, then at around 10.50, a further 20 min was added. For Germans, the exam was probably a breeze. For others, a bit stressful.

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

The unknown EQE candidat helperWednesday, 3 March 2021 at 09:26:00 GMT

schestowitz__

I do not agree with bashing people working at the EQE secretariat. The first culprit is actually the person sitting at the head of the EPO. For many reasons, which I will not dwell on presently, this person wants an absolute digitalisation of the EPO whatever it might cost. See what happened with OP in form of ViCos whether the parties agree or not after the pandemic.

schestowitz__

The decision to skip the EQE in 2020 was taken quite early in the year. The decision of changing the procedure to an e-EQE was taken around mid-year. It took until the end of the year to give candidates a first opportunity to test the system. The last test was one week before the exam. All the ingredients for a disaster were present. And the disaster occurred.

schestowitz__

I would have thought that when the decision was taken to go over to an e-EQE, the necessary means should be ready. Nothing like this happened.

schestowitz__

The candidates and tutors had barely the possibility to prepare for the new form of the EQE in which parts were cut in two. This needs a review of the teaching methods, and as a tutor I would have wished to know about this change much earlier.

schestowitz__

When it is claimed that the e-EQE is equivalent to the paper EQE, it is a gross exaggeration. If WiseFlow would give the same possibilities to process a text like Word, I could agree, but this is by far not the case.

schestowitz__

The fear of possible cheating has pushed the EQE secretariat and Board into a frenzy of measures. And the candidates suffer in an unnecessary manner.

schestowitz__

Rather than sending the EPO - and epi people - having contributed to the disaster away, I would rather send them to sit the papers three weeks running. This might make them think twice on what they have done to the candidates, and forces them to adopt a better system.

schestowitz__

The EQE is difficult enough and it did not need the system to increase the difficulty.

schestowitz__

In the famous videoconference of 11th February it was made clear that a return to a paper EQE is out of question. Let’s hope that the e-EQE 2022 will be better prepared and a system allowing a clear equivalence with a paper EQE will be chosen.

schestowitz__

I feel deeply sorry for this year’s candidates and can only encourage them to stay steady and complain in the form required.

schestowitz__

That an organisation likes the EPO is unable to organise correctly a very important exam is symptomatic of the deliquescence the office undergoes in the last years. People having not a clue of the actual work done decide on the policies which should be applied. And the AC is simply gaping.

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

Replies

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

Proof of the puddingWednesday, 3 March 2021 at 10:20:00 GMT

schestowitz__

Are you suggesting that the EPO has rushed to implement a digitalised solution without properly planning, preparing and testing the necessary systems (never mind putting relevant safeguards in place)? Who would have thought it?

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

The unknown EQE candidat helperWednesday, 3 March 2021 at 14:18:00 GMT

schestowitz__

I would not stick my tongue in my cheek but rather at all the incompetent EPO would be managers!

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

TedThursday, 4 March 2021 at 11:51:00 GMT

schestowitz__

I wonder if they will consider that they took all due care to ensure the smooth running of the exams.

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

AnonymousFriday, 5 March 2021 at 05:31:00 GMT

schestowitz__

The EQE tells candidates to start preparation early. But a first view of the platform was only available the day before Christmas... and that version did not have the major Alt-Tab flaws... so yes, they rushed. There was and is one good reason: COVID. But if you need to rush, you need to provide all necessary resources to be able to reach the required care and robustness. That was tried, vit the events show it did not work out good

schestowitz__

enough. 1500-2500 candidates per paper are too many to serves as Guinee pigs for a proven immature system (proven by Mock 2 and 3)

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

AnonymousWednesday, 3 March 2021 at 13:44:00 GMT

schestowitz__

I was affected by this, and it certainly added a lot stress, and led to a worse performance for me personally. I immediately contacted the ZenDesk invigilator, only to see that I was position ~600 in the queue, and with these numbers dropping rather slowly. So I tried starting with the German paper, somehow, constantly checking the ZenDesk chat status. After a 30 min or I was told to refresh, which fixed the issue. I was already

schestowitz__

majorly stressed by that time, way more than I should be, and that lasted for the rest of the paper. The time extension was communicated later, randomly via the Wiseflow system, with no further explanation. The break to D2 was cut short.

schestowitz__

With no fault of my own (I participated in all Mock exams, read all instructions, took part in all video sessions) I had worse exam conditions a) than others and b) as I should have expected. Some people may deal better with such a situation, but for me it triggered some major panic, which I couldn't really get rid of during the rest of the exam.

schestowitz__

I look forward to retaking D in 2022.

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

schestowitz__

AnonymousWednesday, 3 March 2021 at 14:08:00 GMT

schestowitz__

I'd characterise the issues as teething problems. Before biting me, please read my full comment.

schestowitz__

Firstly, CLEARLY candidates have been affected, and I am in no way diminishing the very valid feelings that candidates will have regarding these technical issues and their impact on the exam(s).

schestowitz__

However, the EQE board will likely take measures to compensate those affected, and that they acknowledge the impact on candidates (especially in terms of morale). What these measures are remains to be seen, but there are many very valid ways to normalize marks, and with the increased data they have through WISEflow they could do some very clever things to make sure that people sitting the paper in FR or EN are not disadvantaged

schestowitz__

compared to our DE speaking colleagues, statistically speaking.

schestowitz__

I sat paper A today, and I must say that the system worked very well today (though admiteddly, others may have had issues). I can see a future where this system is the norm for the EQEs and that the majority are happy with it. Until then, the EQE board will surely take feedback, investigate, and iterate upon the current system until arriving at an acceptable solution.

schestowitz__

Expecting perfection from each other (and that goes both ways) is unhealthy. Show me a perfect exam system anywhere in the world. As long as both sides respect each other, and equity is assured for all, then I think it will work out okay. Until then, I hope candidates will be kind to the humans at the other end of the e-mail address, and that the EQE board will be open minded in their analysis of their own performance, and how they

schestowitz__

can assure equity for all candidates.