Techrights logo

IRC: #techbytes @ Techrights IRC Network: Tuesday, July 27, 2021

(ℹ) Join us now at the IRC channel | ䷉ Find the plain text version at this address.

*blitzed has quit (connection closed)Jul 27 00:31
*blitzed (~blitzed@y9b36hdsarnu8.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 00:35
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/glynmoody/status/1419604661582053382Jul 27 01:02
-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@glynmoody: I fear it's too late for that... https://t.co/3gQDcIjE9IJul 27 01:02
-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@schestowitz: ● NEWS ● #CommonDreams ☞ #UN Chief Reminds Leaders of Need for 'Clear and Unambiguous Commitment' to 1.5°C https://t.co/Hc8S2JqptGJul 27 01:02
*psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techbytesJul 27 01:07
*rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 01:25
*liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 01:26
*rianne_ (~rianne@qhduu73fcjmdn.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 01:33
*liberty_box (~liberty@qhduu73fcjmdn.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 01:34
*psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 01:52
*psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techbytesJul 27 02:11
*rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 02:46
*liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 02:47
*rianne_ (~rianne@qhduu73fcjmdn.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 02:49
*liberty_box (~liberty@qhduu73fcjmdn.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 02:50
*rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 03:13
*liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 03:13
*GNUmoon2 has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 03:24
*GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@6h225yswjsmje.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 03:24
*liberty_box (~liberty@qhduu73fcjmdn.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 03:40
*rianne_ (~rianne@qhduu73fcjmdn.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 03:40
*DaemonFC has quit (connection closed)Jul 27 04:13
*blitzed has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 04:37
*blitzed (~blitzed@c2g9y73sffpdk.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 04:39
*psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 04:51
*psydroid_ (~psydroid@cqggrmwgu7gji.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 06:11
*rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 06:25
*liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 06:25
*rianne_ (~rianne@qhduu73fcjmdn.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 06:34
*liberty_box (~liberty@qhduu73fcjmdn.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 06:34
*bridge has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 07:23
*psydruid has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 07:24
*bridge (~bridge@sp6mg7ktjfurg.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 07:24
*irc.techrights.org gives channel operator status to bridgeJul 27 07:24
*psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 07:26
*GNUmoon2 has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 08:36
*GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@vd4283mvfyqgk.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 09:17
*DaemonFC (~DaemonFC@hcz4kwb5fv9w4.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 12:12
*DaemonFC has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 12:21
blitzed!COFFEEJul 27 12:24
*DaemonFC (~DaemonFC@hcz4kwb5fv9w4.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 12:31
*DaemonFC has quit (connection closed)Jul 27 13:06
*DaemonFC (~DaemonFC@hcz4kwb5fv9w4.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 13:06
*DaemonFC has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 13:23
*DaemonFC (~DaemonFC@hcz4kwb5fv9w4.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 13:26
*liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 13:36
*rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 13:36
*DaemonFC has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 13:40
*DaemonFC (~DaemonFC@hcz4kwb5fv9w4.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 13:44
*rianne_ (~rianne@qhduu73fcjmdn.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 13:46
*liberty_box (~liberty@qhduu73fcjmdn.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 13:46
schestowitzhttp://patentblog.kluweriplaw.com/2021/07/21/trade-union-to-epo-president-campinos-quash-unlawful-strike-restrictions/Jul 27 13:49
-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-patentblog.kluweriplaw.com | Trade union to EPO president Campinos: Quash unlawful strike restrictions - Kluwer Patent BlogJul 27 13:49
schestowitz"Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzAttentive ObseverJul 27 13:49
schestowitzJULY 22, 2021 AT 5:26 AMJul 27 13:49
schestowitzI do not want to sound cynical but the tenant of the 10th floor will done barely more than what is absolutely necessary to abide by the decision of the ILO-AT.Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzIt should however not be forgotten that he was appointed in order to restore social peace at the EPO. Napoleon 4th could at least keep the contenance when discussing with staff, this is not the case with his successor.Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzIn this context he has reached a level of detestation by staff quicker than Napoleon 4th and this says a lot.Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzIt should also not be forgotten that those who inspired the rules for industrial action now quashed are still having their jobs at the EPO.Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzLast but not least, the budget for 2021 provided 6, in words six, million Euros for external legal advice for conflicts with staff.Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzIt is a pity to see the EPO being run in the wall by a bunch of pseudo managers whose incompetence is difficult to top and decide about things without knowing or disregarding what consequences their decision can have at the “coal front”.Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzThe worse is that with its New Normal the bunch of people thinking they are the bees knees, want to create an EPO 2.0 which is in blatant contradiction with the EPC as it stands!Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzOne wonders if the hidden agenda of Napoleon 4th and of his successor is not to destroy the EPO ,.Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzLightBlueJul 27 13:49
schestowitzJULY 22, 2021 AT 9:30 AMJul 27 13:49
schestowitzMaybe, instead of asking the EPO for its reaction, Kluwer should ask the national delegates to the Administrative Council for their reaction.Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzanonymousJul 27 13:49
schestowitzJULY 22, 2021 AT 5:02 PMJul 27 13:49
schestowitzFrom which pool of candidates, do you think, the EPO recruits its brightest and highest-ranking officials ?Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzAttentive ObserverJul 27 13:49
schestowitzJULY 23, 2021 AT 8:56 AMJul 27 13:49
schestowitzFormer members for the BA are submitted to a two years cooling off after the end of their duties.Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzA similar cooling off period should be imposed to members of the AC if they want to occupy a job at the EPO.Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzIt is a scandal to see that the present VP5 and the PD 5.2 moved straight from the AC to DG5.Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzNo wonder the tail is wagging the dog.Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzAttentive ObseverJul 27 13:49
schestowitzJULY 22, 2021 AT 2:10 PMJul 27 13:49
schestowitzThe delegates to the AC have in their wast majority not the faintest clue about what is going on at the EPO and are gullible to any nonsense proffered by the administration.Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzThey do not want the cooperation budget for their country and their personal perks to be reduced.Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzIf it comes from the administration it must be good.Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzNow you might understand better why the tail is wagging the dog!Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzfrancis hagelJul 27 13:49
schestowitzJULY 23, 2021 AT 2:30 PMJul 27 13:49
schestowitz@Attentive ObserverJul 27 13:49
schestowitzMy problem with your repeated disparagements of the former President is not so much that they are inappropriate, it is that they tend to obfuscate the essential issue rightly raised in your comment, which is the potential shift to EPO 2.0. This issue should not blurred by personal allegations (cronyism, conflicts of interest, incompetence and the like).Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzThere is unquestionably a drive toward 2.0 simply as a result of the developments of IT technology, and the pandemic is acting as a accelerator. What could that imply for the EPO ?Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzIn short, there may be the option attractive to some to turn the EPO into a decentralised network of national franchises. The EPO would become akin to a brand, with a central unit dealing with corporate management and producing the rules (Boards of Appeal, Legal Directorate, guidelines), the tools, training tutorials, and national franchises using the trademark and the tools. National franchises could be close to NPOs for obvious convenience and Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzlikely open to local influence. This would be the end of the EPO in its centralised structure.Jul 27 13:49
schestowitzIt seems clear that within the AC some of the Member States could favour this kind of evolution. This seems to be the case for the UK and Northern European countries. I would see here the result of national cultures, each fully respectable. Thus I think the issue deserves a serious conversation, as dispassioned and objective and therefore as disconnected from personal considerations as possible. There has been a precedent with the debate about Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzdecentralisation in 2008.Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzAs you can see, I am an incurable optimist.Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzConcerned observerJul 27 13:50
schestowitzJULY 26, 2021 AT 12:24 PMJul 27 13:50
schestowitzFrancis, if there is indeed a move to (unlawfully) create an EPO 2.0, how could that possibly be achieved in the absence of corruption within the EPO and the AC? That is, if those running and overseeing the EPO were insistent upon staying within the limits of their powers, and were not tempted (by opportunities for self-enrichment) to exceed those powers, then there would be no need to fear the creation of an EPO 2.0 by way of any mechanism other Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzthan a Diplomatic Conference.Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzFrom this perspective, I think that it is important to shine a light upon instances of (apparent) corruption within the EPO and the AC as promptly as possible … on the basis that doing so might help to “disinfect” the EPO before the rot sets in too deeply. On the other hand, certain recent developments at the EPO could be argued to point a truly pervasive rot, and so perhaps complaining about corruption is a futile exercise now. Also, it makes Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzone speculate how different things might have been if more within the profession had raised the alarm during the tenure of the previous President (who, unlike the current incumbent, was careful to avoid taking actions that caused immediate displeasure and alarm amongst users of the EPO). We shall never know.Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzJustice deniedJul 27 13:50
schestowitzJULY 23, 2021 AT 12:27 PMJul 27 13:50
schestowitzJust to emphasise the snails pace of the IOLAT: already in 2015 a Dutch appellate court ruled that parts of the EPO’s strike regulations violated human rights (see e.g. https://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2015/02/can-suepo-sue-epo-it-now-seems-so.html). This decision was later overturned by the Dutch High Court, referring among others to the EPO’s immunity and the possibility to go to the ILOAT, see https://www.epo.org/news-events/news/2017/20170120.Jul 27 13:50
-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-ipkitten.blogspot.com | Can SUEPO sue EPO? It now seems so ... - The IPKatJul 27 13:50
schestowitzhtml.Jul 27 13:50
-TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.epo.org | EPO - Statement by the European Patent Office on the ruling by the Supreme Court of the NetherlandsJul 27 13:50
schestowitzSo: Dutch courts, up until the High Court: 4 years. Final decision ILOAT: 8 years…Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzConcerned observerJul 27 13:50
schestowitzJULY 23, 2021 AT 2:13 PMJul 27 13:50
schestowitzThe decision by the Dutch supreme court is perhaps one of the worst that I have ever seen.Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzAs I recall, the essence of that decision is that, for the purpose of enforcing the right to association (including the right to collective bargaining), the supreme court held that recourse to the ILO AT is an adequate alternative to national courts. Recent events have proven precisely how wrong-headed that conclusion was. That is, the after-the-fact decision by ILO AT now casts doubt upon the legitimacy of provisions that were passed and in force Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzwhilst unlawful restrictions on the right to strike were in force. However, ILO AT will not have either the power or the inclination to rule that those questionable provisions are indeed unlawful.Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzIn other words, forcing EPO employees to seek recourse only via ILO AT effectively eviscerates their right to collective bargaining with their employer BEFORE the imposition of legally questionable measures. It is impossible to see how this does anything other than breach the fundamental rights of EPO staff. Shame on the Dutch supreme court for rubber-stamping this denial of justice.Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzBlaBlaBlaBlaBlaJul 27 13:50
schestowitzJULY 24, 2021 AT 6:06 PMJul 27 13:50
schestowitzAbusive restrictions on strike deductions (and organisation of strikes), abusive restrictions on communication means imposed on SUEPO (de facto limiting information of members hence of all EPO Staff), no SUEPO recognition (despite ca. 50% of EPO staff being SUEPO member), time limited contracts (surely to enhance the independence of view of workers), refusal so far to redress the cases of Mr Petiaud in Munich and Lund in The Hague (experts nominated Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzby the Staff Representation who were the first to be abusively sanctioned by Battistelli et al.), to be continuedJul 27 13:50
schestowitzBut all is fine and let us praise Mr Campinos who proudly trumpets during administrative council meetings that social dialogue at EPO is high on EPO’s agendaJul 27 13:50
schestowitzThe Unitary Patent in the hands of the EPO who breached fundamental rights?Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzJULY 25, 2021 AT 6:36 AMJul 27 13:50
schestowitz18 days after the announcement of the judgments not a single reaction from the administration. Usually Laurent, Head of the Employment Law.Department is keen on making an Intranet Communiqué celebrating the victories of the EPO against it staff at ILOAT. Now, its dead silence. And silence means the sinister advisors of Campinos are thinking about how NOT to execute the judgments. The EPO has lost its dignity and is not afraid of another Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzembarassment. A sound organization, would have already announced the reimbursement of the unlawful and punitive strike deductions of 1/20th.Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzAlso, an internal audit would already be running in order to understand how the internal injustice system could have been so wrong in rejecting all internal appeals with its Chair Sir Paul Mahoney who actually worked as a Judge at the European Court of Union Rights: “the strike deductions of 1/20th are proportionate” he dared to write.Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzBut of course, this would require work from Mr Campinos who also shows very little interests in staff rights and just asks Nellie Simon (VP4) to sign whatever Gilles Requena (Chier International Legal Officer) and Élodie Bergot (Chief Policy Officer) bring to him. The latter are still the ones running the EPO while Campinos is enjoying his EPO 2.0 bubble from a country where he can wear shorts. Battistelli missed the Seine in Paris, Campinos misses Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzthe sun from Alicante, but they both missed the point by ignoring all warnings as to the legality of the strike regulations. And if they knew and continued nevertheless, then that is a gangster attitude.Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzHow can the EU even think to continue to entrust the EPO with the Unitary Patent?Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzAttentive ObserverJul 27 13:50
schestowitzJULY 26, 2021 AT 10:54 AMJul 27 13:50
schestowitz@Concerned observer,Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzI cannot but agree with you.Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzILO-AT only checks whether the procedures have been correctly applied, but barely ever says that the measures itself are illegal or incorrect.Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzIt is only in very clear-cut cases, like here, that the procedure is considered flawed.Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzIn a sense it is understandable as the ILO-AT does not want to engage in “political” discussions.Jul 27 13:50
schestowitzThe difference with the CJEU is is significant. After negotiations with the union, the EU Commission accepted that salary increases should be within a given range, let’s say 1-4%.Jul 27 13:51
schestowitzThe EU Commission decided that the increase would be 1,1%. The CJEU decided that this was not correct and the increase will be 2,5%.Jul 27 13:51
schestowitzIt is unthinkable that the ILO-AT ever comes to such a conclusion.Jul 27 13:51
schestowitzThe same will apply to the salary and pensions reductions decided by the EPO management on the basis of a financial study which proposed various scenarios. The EPO management chose eventually the worse one for staff, claiming that there is no guarantee about the level of annual fees in the future, which is plainly ridiculous.Jul 27 13:51
schestowitzWhen on top of this, 6 millions € have been foreseen in the budget 2022 for legal advice in disputes with staff, the conclusion is quickly drawn about the will of the EPO management to restore social peace.Jul 27 13:51
schestowitzEPO staff have actually no real means of redress as the decisions of the Internal Appeals Committee (IAC), even the unanimous ones, can be set aside by the president without any reason. Non unanimous decisions the more so.Jul 27 13:51
schestowitzIt leaves thus staff members of the EPO to go to Geneva, which is a long and tedious process.Jul 27 13:51
schestowitzThe ILO-AT is literally submerged by complaints to the EPO, and cannot any longer deal with this influx of cases from the EPO. And the access to the IAC has been made more difficult with the creation of an administrative review before having access to the IAC.Jul 27 13:51
schestowitzThat on the other hand, OP by ViCo have to be mandatory in order to deliver justice quickly is adding insult to injury to staff members who have to wait for years before the ILO-AT takes a decision, which on top of it is rarely positive for the above reasons.Jul 27 13:51
schestowitzBut the EPO is immune, and being immune is equated by the president and its minions that they benefit of impunity.Jul 27 13:51
schestowitzIt is sickening to see how such incompetent, but would-be managers, drive the EPO into the wall, with on top of it, the benediction of the AC.Jul 27 13:51
schestowitz"Jul 27 13:51
*DaemonFC has quit (connection closed)Jul 27 14:00
*DaemonFC (~DaemonFC@hcz4kwb5fv9w4.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 14:01
*DaemonFC has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 14:48
*DaemonFC (~DaemonFC@hcz4kwb5fv9w4.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 14:56
*DaemonFC has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 15:05
*DaemonFC (~DaemonFC@hcz4kwb5fv9w4.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 15:06
*DaemonFC has quit (connection closed)Jul 27 15:56
*DaemonFC (~DaemonFC@hcz4kwb5fv9w4.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 15:56
*DaemonFC has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 16:18
*DaemonFC (~DaemonFC@hcz4kwb5fv9w4.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 16:22
*DaemonFC has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 19:08
*psydroid_ has quit (connection closed)Jul 27 21:12
*psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techbytesJul 27 21:17
*DaemonFC (~DaemonFC@t2rrm3icxntw6.irc) has joined #techbytesJul 27 21:34
*GNUmoon2 has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 22:17
*DaemonFC has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)Jul 27 23:01

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.6 | ䷉ find the plain text version at this address.