IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Sunday, December 06, 2020

schestowitz

coming all over the arm

MinceR

schestowitz

nvidia the freedom-loving company

schestowitz

nvidia loves freedom

schestowitz

zemlin: zemlin loves nvidia!

schestowitz

"pay me more"

psydroid

and as far as I know, TrustZone is more like a facility which you can load your own build of ARM Trusted Firmware into

psydroid

I don't see how it's worse than the Intel ME

MinceR

like AMD, they don't really advertise what it does

MinceR

but "Trusted" is already a big red flag

schestowitz

psp

schestowitz

trust

schestowitz

tpm

schestowitz

you need to trust them

schestowitz

because they don't trust you

schestowitz

why not trust those big companies?

schestowitz

it's not like they sell hardware to armies

schestowitz

armies make their own chips

schestowitz

from sand

MinceR

they don't trust you with your own property

schestowitz

MinceR

it's hard to build a trustworthy system when the manufacturers of the components won't tell you what their products do

schestowitz

it's not your propety

vZS1

Some articles on this topic from people with domain knowledge would be nice

schestowitz

you buy the obligation to feed it into the power supple

schestowitz

and not to even modify the chips

schestowitz

that would be "AYE PEE" infringement

schestowitz

and there are laws for that

schestowitz

some people arrested already

vZS1

I would like to read how to get stuff like libreboot installed on more devices

https://dwaves.de/2020/12/03/libreboot-lvm-encrypted-volumes-needs-correct-cmos-clock-time-volume-group-not-found-failed-to-read-int-token-error-parsing-metadata/

schestowitz

schestowitz

(new)

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-» LibreBoot – LVM encrypted volumes needs correct CMOS clock time – Volume Group not found – failed to read int token error parsing metadata | dwaves.de

psydroid

VZS1, over in #talos-workstation we are talking about overcoming the trusting trust problem first hypothesised by Ken Thompson

Dec 06 00:30

psydroid

so yes, we would have to look at the whole stack of software and hardware and possibly build our own

Dec 06 00:31

schestowitz

vZS1: you got s reply

schestowitz

> I believe very strongly they are still based primarily on Gitlab.

schestowitz

> Systemd is based on GitHub, most of Freedesktop.org's GitHub says it's a

schestowitz

> mirror and I believe that is accurate.

schestowitz

schestowitz

> I'd like to know if Freedesktop moves to GitHub, though except for

schestowitz

> systemd (which isn't new) I don't think that's happened.

schestowitz

schestowitz

> vZS1

schestowitz

> Wait wut

schestowitz

> Dec 04 18:35

> <http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-041220.html#tDec

schestowitz

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Friday, December 04, 2020

schestowitz

> 04 18:35:09>

schestowitz

> vZS1

schestowitz

> Freedesktop moved to ShitLab

schestowitz

> Dec 04 18:35

> <http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-041220.html#tDec

schestowitz

schestowitz

> 04 18:35:31>

schestowitz

> vZS1

schestowitz

> The old bugs are still on bugzilla

schestowitz

> Dec 04 18:35

> <http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-041220.html#tDec

schestowitz

schestowitz

> 04 18:35:42>

schestowitz

> vZS1

schestowitz

> When did that happen

schestowitz

> Oops, sorry-- that was about bugzilla. Yes, hilariously (or sadly) they

schestowitz

> are on GitHub.

vZS1

schestowitz: yeah. I've got them via email

Dec 06 00:38

vZS1

psydroid: I can join the channel as an observer

Dec 06 00:39

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Dec 06 00:40

schestowitz

> SFC: Sponsor-Fellating...

Dec 06 00:41

schestowitz

Dec 06 00:41

schestowitz

> I could continue but it won't get any nicer.

Dec 06 00:41

MinceR

Dec 06 00:43

psydroid

vZS1, I am calling it a night, but do feel free to ask questions there as there are so many knowledgeable people united around the idea of owner controlled computers (and not just those based on IBM POWER)

Dec 06 00:59

vZS1

I'll keep an eye on the chat (:

Dec 06 01:00

psydroid

alright :)

Dec 06 01:01

DaemonFC[m]

(CNN)President Donald Trump on Saturday called Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp, pushing him to convince state legislators to overturn President-elect Joe Biden's win in the state, a source familiar with the conversation told CNN.

Dec 06 01:13

DaemonFC[m]

Trump asked Kemp to call a special session and convince state legislators to select their own electors that would support him, according to the source. He also asked the Republican governor to order an audit of absentee ballot signatures.

Dec 06 01:13

DaemonFC[m]

Kemp explained that he did not have the authority to order such an audit and denied the request to call a special session, the source said.

Dec 06 01:13

DaemonFC[m]

---

Dec 06 01:15

DaemonFC[m]

CNN previously reported that Trump had recently bashed Kemp, who is a supporter of his, as a "moron" and a "nut job" during another phone call. And earlier this week, the President publicly criticized the governor in an interview on Fox News, saying he was "ashamed" he had endorsed Kemp.

Dec 06 01:15

MinceR

lol

Dec 06 01:16

DaemonFC[m]

MinceR: You're a moron and a nutcase. Now I need these two really big favors that are kind of illegal.

Dec 06 01:28

DaemonFC[m]

Dec 06 01:28

MinceR

lol

Dec 06 01:28

MinceR

what could possibly go wrong?

Dec 06 01:29

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Dec 06 02:04

DaemonFC[m]

MinceR: Just to piss off my parents I just don't even call him Trump anymore.

DaemonFC[m]

I just call it the outgoing regime.

MinceR

MinceR

LOTUS

DaemonFC[m]

Like many other Americans who will get their eviction notice in January.

DaemonFC[m]

Pack your shit and get out.

MinceR

(Loser Of The United States)

Dec 06 02:16

DaemonFC[m]

Just throw all his belongings on Black Lives Matter Plaza.

Dec 06 02:16

DaemonFC[m]

Dec 06 02:16

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Dec 06 04:16

DaemonFC[m]

I might look into Fedora 33 a bit on the new system.

Dec 06 05:08

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Dec 06 05:53

chovy

howdy

Dec 06 05:53

search_social

Dec 06 05:56

schestowitz

Dec 06 06:24

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Dec 06 06:45

schestowitz

Re: DMCA exemptions submissions - SFC and SFC "new strategy for GPL ENFORCEMENT"

Dec 06 07:17

schestowitz

> Hi!

Dec 06 07:17

schestowitz

schestowitz

> Look, I think I found a match!

schestowitz

> https://sfconservancy.org/news/2020/oct/01/new-copyleft-strategy-launched-with-ARDC-grant/

schestowitz

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-sfconservancy.org | Conservancy Announces New Strategy for GPL Enforcement and Related Work, Receives Grant from ARDC - Software Freedom Conservancy

schestowitz

schestowitz

> The SFC new strategy for GPL ENFORCEMENT...

schestowitz

> Conservancy Announces New Strategy for GPL Enforcement and Related Work, Receives Grant from ARDC

schestowitz

schestowitz

schestowitz

> Exemption proposal:

> https://www.copyright.gov/1201/2021/petitions/proposed/New%20Pet.%20-%20Software%20Freedom%20Conservancy%20-%201.pdf

schestowitz

schestowitz

schestowitz

> Yes. The Proposed exemption is definitely self-serving - maybe especially now SFC got a grant.

schestowitz

> To be sure, I will be submitting comments to the copyright office about this!

http://techrights.org/2020/12/05/dmca-sfc/

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Dec 06 07:38

vZS1

schestowitz: you know they're evil. Look at all those spaces in the URI. The "%20"s. Spawn of Satan.

Dec 06 07:59

schestowitz

maybe the Copyright Office renamed it

Dec 06 08:00

schestowitz

or maybe SFC used a filename like this

Dec 06 08:00

schestowitz

"New Pet. - Software Freedom Conservancy - 1.pdf"

Dec 06 08:01

schestowitz

UTF-8

Dec 06 08:01

schestowitz

www.copyright.gov Cloudflare, Inc.

Dec 06 08:01

search_social

what's wrong with it

Dec 06 08:02

schestowitz

made with PDFium

Dec 06 08:02

schestowitz

with which part, search_social ?

Dec 06 08:03

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Dec 06 08:05

search_social

why is the exemption self-serving

Dec 06 08:07

schestowitz

explained in yesterday's post:

Dec 06 08:09

schestowitz

Dec 06 08:10

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | A Closer Look at Richard Stallman’s Ousters From Inside the Free Software Foundation (Board) | Techrights

Dec 06 08:10

schestowitz

HEY HI HEY HI HEY HI (AI) SPAM. "As per EPO (European Patent Office) estimates, patent application in the region..."

Dec 06 08:16

schestowitz

HEY HI HARDWARE! Everything is HEY HI now! Even Clown Computing and chips... HEY HI https://tristateobserver.com/uncategorized/137337/ai-chipsets-market-is-booming-worldwide-according-to-a-new-research-report/

Dec 06 08:16

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-tristateobserver.com | AI Chipsets Market is Booming Worldwide According to a New Research Report – Tri State Observer

Dec 06 08:16

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Dec 06 11:36

Mogzagain

hi Roy

Dec 06 11:37

Mogzagain

I'd just emailed you back, but something's doing my head in a bit, lol, so I just thought I'd pop in here instead

Dec 06 11:37

Mogzagain

I'm female, and the article refers to me as a male artist, eek

Dec 06 11:37

Mogzagain

Is it possible to edit that?

Dec 06 11:38

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Dec 06 11:47

vZS1

schestowitz: ping (see Mog's message)

Dec 06 12:02

vZS1

Mogzagain: I like the art btw.

Dec 06 12:03

Mogzagain

Thanks vZS1, and really glad you like the art

Dec 06 12:04

vZS1

Mogzagain: do you use PGP-encrypted email?

Dec 06 12:16

Mogzagain

I use Posteo, and I think that is, probably ... lol, not sure; it has all kinds of really good encryption

Dec 06 12:17

vZS1

Because I was forwarded a message you sent to Roy. I can mail you my contact details, if you like.

Dec 06 12:17

vZS1

Just letting you know

Dec 06 12:18

Mogzagain

I see; yes, when you'd been in chat previously and we'd talked about art, you'd said you'd like something uplifting about the last year or two, so I remembered that and asked Roy to forward you a copy of the painting

Dec 06 12:19

Mogzagain

And thanks for offering to email; that's great.

Dec 06 12:19

vZS1

I'll send you a ping over email. Redundancy, in case you can't get a hold of me here.

Dec 06 12:21

Mogzagain

Thanks!

Dec 06 12:21

Mogzagain

Are you saying you've lost your job, or have I misunderstood?

Dec 06 12:22

vZS1

Dec 06 12:22

Mogzagain

phew, that's good

Dec 06 12:22

Mogzagain

I've only used email in the most direct way, eek, so am looking up about pinging now. Not sure what'll happen, lol. Such an artist!

Dec 06 12:23

vZS1

This definition: the provision of additional or duplicate systems, equipment, etc., that function in case an operating part or system fails

vZS1

Mogzagain: ping is just an informal thing. It's a normal email. (:

Mogzagain

I see!

Mogzagain

the article I found was so complex, it threw me, lol

vZS1

Sent the email btw

Dec 06 12:26

Mogzagain

I see it; thanks!

Mogzagain

it's just come through

vZS1

If you're on GNU/Linux, I can teach you how to use GnuPG to encrypt your email.

vZS1

It's just a few command line inputs

Mogzagain

That's a very kind offer, but I think Posteo does that, tbh ... unless there's a way to check that via the few lines? I feel like I should put up an alert sign or something, as I'm so non-tech, lol

Dec 06 12:28

vZS1

It may well do PGP. I don't know anything about Posteo.

Dec 06 12:29

Mogzagain

I'm just checking about it's methods ...

Dec 06 12:29

Mogzagain

Access to our server occurs fundamentally over encrypted TLS connections. We secure this additionally with "Perfect Forward Secrecy" technology (PFS) and DANE/TLSA. PFS effectively prevents the possibility that logged connection information could be mass-decrypted by a third party. DANE verifies the authenticity of our server.

Dec 06 12:30

vZS1

Look up "PGP public key" in the docs.

Dec 06 12:30

Mogzagain

Strict Transport Security (HSTS) and DANE/TLSA is referenced

Dec 06 12:30

vZS1

That's not end-to-end encryption

vZS1

That's just transport layer encryption (:

Mogzagain

:-(

Mogzagain

there were some extra settings within Posteo to turn stuff on, so I'll just check that too

vZS1

Try to find the words "PGP" or "GPG"

vZS1

Btw, you don't have to do this now. Just let me know when you're interested to learn and I can guide you through it some time

Dec 06 12:32

Mogzagain

thanks; so far I've found the encryption section, that references crypto mail storage ...

Dec 06 12:32

Mogzagain

which I activated

Dec 06 12:32

Mogzagain

it's saying TLS-sending guarantee ensures always using encrypted transport route to send emails

vZS1

Give me a sec

vZS1

I need my keyboard for this

Mogzagain

they say they won't send the email if they can't create an encrypted connection

Mogzagain

okay :-)

Mogzagain

oops, I hadn't switched that on, lol, the non-sending bit

Mogzagain

SSLv3 isn't tolerated, they say, by them

Mogzagain

there's a PGP section!

Mogzagain

yay

Mogzagain

they say ... install the open source add-on Mailvelope in order to use genuine end-to-end encryption when working in webmail interface, and they link to instructions

Dec 06 12:35

vZS1

So there are a few things going on here all of which are encryption

Dec 06 12:35

Mogzagain

that's good, and I'm glad you asked, as this Mailvelope isn't installed, so not end to end, as you said

Dec 06 12:35

vZS1

TLS/SSL is just encrypting the data while it's being transported. But that data is decrypted as soon as it gets to the client from the server

Dec 06 12:36

Mogzagain

okay

Dec 06 12:37

vZS1

PGP (OpenPGP, to be precise) only allows decryption by intended recipeints. You need to encrypt the data specifically for a public key belonging to someone's PGP keyset.

Dec 06 12:38

Mogzagain

okay

Dec 06 12:38

vZS1

So say, once you set up GnuPG (an OpenPGP implementation), you could use the public key of someone (and your already generated GnuPG secret key) to encrypt a file so that only the intended recipient can decrypt the file.

Dec 06 12:39

vZS1

You could then just attach that file to an email using any client

Dec 06 12:39

vZS1

Only the intended recipient can decrypt that message

Dec 06 12:39

Mogzagain

I'm surprised a bit that they're suggesting a Firefox add-on, lol, but they've put illustrations showing how to generate a key, then enter email address and choose a password for access to private key, leaving the name field empty for anonymity. It continues, but a bit complicated, eek.

Dec 06 12:40

Mogzagain

Always good to find illustrations, lol, so they do go on to demonstrate how to send public key to others, so they can encrypt emails to me

Dec 06 12:41

vZS1

I would suggest against using a third party client for PGP email. GnuPG can be used to encrypt a file from the command line and then you can just send that file as an attachment. That way your encryption keys don't get uploaded anywhere (this defeats the whole purpose of PGP).

Dec 06 12:41

Mogzagain

yes, that's concerning me, the using of a FF add-on. I'm actually in waterfox, not because I want to be, but because I'm unsure anything else is any more secure. just found a Brave appimage, as I don't want to install it, but I've only run it briefly once, as I want to read around and check up on it

Dec 06 12:42

Mogzagain

which browser do you use?

vZS1

I have access to all the common browsers

Mogzagain

great

vZS1

You don't need any addons to do PGP btw

vZS1

GnuPG should already be installed on your GNU/Linux distro

vZS1

Just encrypt files with that and then you can attach them to an email you send.

vZS1

Thus the contents of the email are encrypted

Mogzagain

that sounds great; I'll take a look at it at some point

vZS1

And you retain control of your PGP keys (GnuPG stores them on your disk)

Mogzagain

good that there's backup for the email, for sure

Mogzagain

and to avoid a Firefox add-on!

vZS1

Good stuff. Let me know if you get stuck :)

Mogzagain

Thanks! :-)

vZS1

Yes. Do not trust any third-party with your PGP keys

vZS1

They should only be on your disk and no where else

Mogzagain

may I ask what your view of Brave is? Is it something that would be better than Waterfox?

Mogzagain

Will be sure to keep any keys very private; thanks!

vZS1

And you're welcome :)

Mogzagain

Thanks! :-)

vZS1

I don't really have an opinion because I don't know anything about it

Mogzagain

okay

Mogzagain

I presumed there, lol, when you said about access to all browsers

vZS1

That's just on a superficial level. No domain expert knowledge

Dec 06 12:47

Mogzagain

I see; no problem :-)

Dec 06 12:47

vZS1

This article is relevant to some of your questions and concerns: http://techrights.org/2020/11/27/encrypt-with-e2ee-in-depth-article/

Dec 06 12:51

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Guarding Your Privacy With E2EE: Primer | Techrights

Dec 06 12:51

Mogzagain

Thank you very much

Dec 06 12:54

vZS1

Yw (:

Dec 06 12:54

Mogzagain

I don't know how I missed that one, lol ... I use RSS (liferea), but sometimes one or two items don't get through maybe

Dec 06 12:55

vZS1

Could be your RSS client bugging out.

Dec 06 13:08

vZS1

Or maybe you just clicked "mark as read" and forgot. I do it all the time. Lol

Dec 06 13:09

schestowitz

[11:37] <Mogzagain> I'm female, and the article refers to me as a male artist, eek

schestowitz

Mogzagain: oops

schestowitz

will correct asap

schestowitz

sorry for my false impression

Mogzagain

Thanks vZS1, and lol yes easy to do!

Mogzagain

And thanks Roy too; that's awesome!

schestowitz

IIRC, the word "he" was used just once

schestowitz

the rest without gendered words

Mogzagain

There's a 'himself' in there, lol

Dec 06 13:12

schestowitz

ah, ok

Dec 06 13:12

schestowitz

really don't know why I assumed gender wrongly

Mogzagain

You wrote such a nice paragraph, too, about being non-tech but linux important for all who value privacy

schestowitz

maybe something said in the past... not sure

Mogzagain

Thanks for that, btw; that was really cool

schestowitz

corrected now, will reread to make sure

Mogzagain

nothing LGBT or anything; born female, so don't worry

schestowitz

yeah, it's not that

Dec 06 13:14

Mogzagain

I thought maybe you were busy, as I'd signed off with my real name in email thismorning; easy to miss things sometimes. No worries

Dec 06 13:14

schestowitz

some of us are girls, we have several trans here also

Dec 06 13:14

Mogzagain

I can see your corrections; thanks so much! And great article btw

schestowitz

the nickname does not indicate otherwise and maybe something you said about a topic made me assume male, like a hobby or similar

schestowitz

something you guess and guess wrong

schestowitz

"on the Internet nobody knows you're a dog until you bark"

Mogzagain

Yes, I understand we have lots of different great ppl here

schestowitz

sorry, SO sorry

Mogzagain

I'm trying to think what that could have been, lol

schestowitz

I will publish some EPO leaks later today, just had a 2-hour nap

schestowitz

worked 1-9am for my employer, thus took a while to see your correction

Mogzagain

lol, yes, could be any name or location, anything

schestowitz

I also made guesses about "where from"

Mogzagain

No worries; I really appreciate you correcting it. You've done that as soon as you knew, so can't ask more than that.

schestowitz

nuanced language

Mogzagain

Yes, you're certainly very busy.

Mogzagain

We've talked b4 about UK

schestowitz

(apparently one's text can let the gender be guessed with high accuracy, based just on grammar and choice of words)

schestowitz

Artistic types are rare here

schestowitz

my aunt in Florida does art

http://schestowitz.com/Anita/

schestowitz

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com | Anita Tobkes

Mogzagain

For sure; like some kind of snow lion, rarely spotted on the hillside, lol ... on linux too

Mogzagain

What kind of art does your aunt do?

schestowitz

(as a hobby she does, not professionally)

schestowitz

not direct aunt, but we use the word loosely

Mogzagain

I've followed the link ... lovely! Sisters at the Shore ... so impressionist, like Degas. Very good

Mogzagain

It's always cool having those extra aunts and uncles

http://schestowitz.com/Anita/Page2/Girl-With-A-Duck.jpg

schestowitz

schestowitz

Mogzagain: esp. in small families

schestowitz

mom has no siblings

schestowitz

dad has one

schestowitz

that's all I will say publiclyu

Mogzagain

Love the Girl with a Duck

Mogzagain

yes, good to expand little families more, for sure

Dec 06 13:21

schestowitz

BTW

Dec 06 13:22

schestowitz

we had lots of help from ladies at Techrighrs, historically

Dec 06 13:23

Mogzagain

that's cool!

Dec 06 13:23

schestowitz

sometimes on the art side, sometimes transcripts of things

Dec 06 13:23

schestowitz

but the other day, maybe 2 days ago, it occurred to me that in IRC many are still male

Mogzagain

that's great ... as and when, I can get some more art to you, for sure

Mogzagain

yes, many men; majority of linux too

schestowitz

and that it is not by choice, we don't say things offensive to women, I guess it's just something to do with number of women in CS and we're sometimes losing sight of it

schestowitz

so I want to ask what your thoughts are; why it's hard to attract women to software freedom issues

Mogzagain

yes, I find the chat always fine

Mogzagain

I can answer that probably very easily ...

schestowitz

go on

*obarun has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

Dec 06 13:26

Mogzagain

I think men often enjoy tech/code far more, and have a certain aptitude ... some women do also ... and the pressures there are in tech about needing to code and stuff like that can be really difficult to cope with. I think it's about give and take; whatever someone, whether male or female, can bring that helps with software freedom.

vZS1

Family is important. All kinds of family. (:

Mogzagain

still thinking ...

Mogzagain

yes, all kinds of family, vZS1

vZS1

Especially important in times like these

schestowitz

I have my theory, which I think is supported by something I read

Mogzagain

go on ...

schestowitz

and what I see in my wife's use of time

schestowitz

CS has few women

schestowitz

fewer than in school-level CS

Mogzagain

sorry, what's CS?

schestowitz

with "Linux" or "FOSS" even fewer

vZS1

Computer Science

Mogzagain

I see!

schestowitz

and hardcore "hacktivism" almost none

schestowitz

hacktivism can almost never be done for financial gain

Mogzagain

I do think that linux has it's issues

vZS1

Adafruit is founded by a female, iirc

schestowitz

so it has to be purely passion-motivated

schestowitz

which means using up one's very last available bits of time

schestowitz

I work full time

schestowitz

but if I have 100 hours/week of computer time, I can fit in techrights etc.

Mogzagain

such a strong focus on things that can be very challenging, and then you get the trolling/abuse stuff, various things

schestowitz

but when doing housekeeping it ends up being harder

Mogzagain

yes, that's a lot of work

vZS1

I've got reading to do. Have a good day, all.

schestowitz

in society there's still this traditional hunter/nesting 'thing'

Mogzagain

And you, vZS1. have a great day! :-)

schestowitz

women are of high aptitude and maths too

schestowitz

I'm not into all this "good with maths", "good with words" thing

Mogzagain

I've encountered some who are, yes

schestowitz

based on some assumptions about braib structures

schestowitz

it's also about expected rexognition from one's own gender group and opposite gender

schestowitz

the "hacker culture" is about things that are unique

schestowitz

and men punished women by compelling them to "look good" (means, spend lots of time changing.. long hair, makeup)(

Mogzagain

I think ppl have all kinds of aptitudes, which they can bring to free software, whatever gender, and I think the issues on linux are a separate issue, but one that possibly affects women in challenging way e.g. emotionally, it can be very tough being around a mostly male, very code-focussed, 'find it out yourself' place, where you end up drowning

schestowitz

which already imperils them

schestowitz

reduces their free time

Mogzagain

*ways

schestowitz

my wife says, for a guy to be neglected means "ruggedly handsome", with no equivalent for female

Mogzagain

lol

schestowitz

"look at his beard, he's a hard worker, very focused..."

Mogzagain

she can look 'windswept and interesting' though, lol

Mogzagain

'just got out of bed' look is often popular, lol

schestowitz

ah, that

schestowitz

anyway, it would be good to have people involves in software freedom

Mogzagain

lol, at least haven't got the beard to deal with ... itchy! surely

schestowitz

and at the moment many are similar ethnically and gender-wise

schestowitz

2 days ago I thought about environmental activists

schestowitz

or PETA etc.

schestowitz

animal rights

schestowitz

lots of women there

schestowitz

antiwar I'm not sure, but I think many are ex-vets

Mogzagain

yes

schestowitz

and army puts men in the front lines

Dec 06 13:35

schestowitz

and that's not because "they're good at keyboards"

Dec 06 13:35

Mogzagain

I'm not really involved in anything except art, tbh, and at home; location is quite cut off

Dec 06 13:35

schestowitz

the large corporations alleged that language is the barrier, like gendered words and terminology

schestowitz

but women I know mock and detect that assumption

*rianne__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

schestowitz

which tech giants exploit to blame comminty-oriented folks

Mogzagain

I think if ppl just be who they are, respecting themselves and others, it can all work out

*rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights

schestowitz

to demean those who work for no pay, as id large companies have no sexists among their ranks

Mogzagain

big tech tries to inflame and divide all the time!

Mogzagain

terrible!

Mogzagain

as does the mainstream news

schestowitz

yes, it is deliberate

schestowitz

we have memos

schestowitz

inside docs

schestowitz

they have several points on the list, how to derail

schestowitz

we talked about this here yesterdat

Mogzagain

I think big tech like nothing better than e.g. twitter flame wars, or basically any big social site having flame wars ... all that data and conflict!

schestowitz

mainstream news plays off genders and races against one another, but that's centuries-old

Mogzagain

and so much good work, and positive comms, could have happened in that time that was wasted in division and feeding big tech

schestowitz

esp. when the goal is to distract from financial inequality

schestowitz

twitter is awful

schestowitz

I'm quitting/have quit it

Mogzagain

yes, it could be anything they use, as long as it sets ppl against each other and distracts them

schestowitz

and I tell everyone who asked, DON'T EVEN START (like smoking)

schestowitz

not because of divisiveness necessarily, there are many reasons

schestowitz

even better reasons

Mogzagain

yes, best to not get onto social media really ... thankfully, leaving it can become surprisingly easy at a certain stage

schestowitz

we call it social control media

schestowitz

a phrase that caught on

Mogzagain

privacy, not letting that data or profiling happen

schestowitz

many use it now, even Wikileaks used it

schestowitz

social control media works along 3 lines

Mogzagain

hopefully free software comms get more and more popular, especially as ppl are getting more concerned about how invasive big tech is

schestowitz

survey (surveillance)

schestowitz

misinform (propaganda)

schestowitz

control conversation (censor/manipulate)

Mogzagain

you nailed it ... that's all these horrible companies are focussed on

schestowitz

their means for achieving that is "screen time" and channels between people

schestowitz

those are not new tactics

schestowitz

but Twitter, Facebook etc. put it all at the palm of one umbrella

Mogzagain

yes, I was watching RMS clips earlier, and clicked to the fsf page about what the various big companies do, and it's even worse than it used to be ... backdoors everywhere!

schestowitz

armies used to do this

schestowitz

e.g. after occupying a country

Mogzagain

such disregard and disrespect for users

schestowitz

you can inflame sectarian wars that way

Mogzagain

yes

schestowitz

if there's a group or political party you don't like, you make it not exist

schestowitz

because everything is not "in the social network"

Mogzagain

it's a real shame, as ppl not being as divided can exchange lots of good stuff, and make some real progress

schestowitz

and then you ghost or shadow -an

schestowitz

to obscure people's already-limited vision of the world

schestowitz

Mogzagain: they get hits

schestowitz

visibility

schestowitz

that's the "drug"

Mogzagain

yes, the dreaded AI, although I read something the other day saying that AI even struggles to clarify how it got from A to B

schestowitz

they make it addictive

schestowitz

not with so-called 'phones'

schestowitz

people cannot easily "switch off"

schestowitz

so it becomes like a computer game

Mogzagain

yes, social media feeds the ego, and gets ppl dependent, like a drug, on 'likes' and empty attention a lot of the time

schestowitz

"AI" is media hype

schestowitz

it's nothing new

schestowitz

they just mean "computer logic"

schestowitz

or "conditional statements" in code

schestowitz

"of/else" statement

Mogzagain

yes, ppl let themselves get sucked into the matrix

schestowitz

"if female" then "serve X" else "Y"

schestowitz

that's "Hey Hi" (AI) to them

Mogzagain

and these devices cause physical issues too ... neck problems, allsorts, too

schestowitz

meanwhile some of us get other things done

schestowitz

and the social control media already rot

Mogzagain

yes, they like to try to make ppl fear AI, but whenever I read about it, it sounds pretty dumb

schestowitz

They only attain growth by spreading to more countries

schestowitz

like drug lords opening up to more markets

schestowitz

where "Facebook" IS "the Internet"

schestowitz

zero-rating and all

schestowitz

"AI" is meaningless in most articles

Mogzagain

yes, it's great to be so free of loads of bad stuff ... reading that fsf page of e.g. addictive, corrupt, surveillance ... nothing of it do I do, yay!

schestowitz

they don't talk of machine learning

schestowitz

you can ignore it like "the cloud"

schestowitz

it usually just means server somewhere

schestowitz

something you connect to remotely

schestowitz

Mogzagain: are you good at making drawings of known people?

Mogzagain

yes, the ego gets in there, I think, and ppl build stuff up far more than it is

schestowitz

(I am not good at that)

Mogzagain

I've done the odd portrait, yes

schestowitz

it's hard to find portrays of Free software people

schestowitz

those barely exist

schestowitz

except maybe few of RMS

Mogzagain

Tend more to nature or something, but I was wondering if it was allowed to do a painting of RMS

Mogzagain

you've written RMS, as I typed him

schestowitz

because with the beard and long hair he has a unique look

Mogzagain

I'm not keen on linus, greg, etc, but RMS I'll admire for the rest of my life

schestowitz

I think personifying the issues can be bad

schestowitz

in the EPO it used to be Battistelli

Mogzagain

he does, and I think he's awesome

schestowitz

and now they have a different president/face

schestowitz

so it's easy to lose sight of underlying issues

schestowitz

I'm thinking what can be drawn

schestowitz

which I cannot get from cost-free stock photos we use

Mogzagain

I should add that I really am only interested in painting RMS, tbh. So many other main ppl really pee me off.

http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Mono

schestowitz

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Mono - Techrights

schestowitz

see the caricature at the top

schestowitz

those are good because they convey several key points

Mogzagain

There's of course a penguin painting can happen, lol, and I was thinking of a camera/spy stuff too

schestowitz

and yet so that with simplicity

Mogzagain

I see; the trojan horse

schestowitz

if camera/spy stuff, then it's worth highlighting free/libre software as the solution

schestowitz

Apple has a marketing/billboard campaign here now

schestowitz

where they show people covering their face with a phone

schestowitz

"iPhone is privacy"

schestowitz

but those phones are double-sided camerass

schestowitz

so the whole thing is worse than satire

Mogzagain

I'd be doing a disservice if I didn't say that the best, and only, way I'll be able to contribute is just sending along anything relevant, and which is aligned with the kind of things I paint. I don't want to keep refusing stuff, but do want art to be enjoyed.

schestowitz

because their privacy is worst harmed or most harmed by those location-tracked (with gyroscope) microphone with multiple cameras on it, plus wifi, gs, bluetooth

schestowitz

we need to explain to people that rejecting all those things, esp. proprietary, is where they need to look, not "apple promises privacy"

Mogzagain

the camera/spy stuff, yes, as with the lock painting, I always like to bring in what's positive as the strong focus

Mogzagain

I have some ideas about the camera lens and eyes etc

Mogzagain

have you seen the apple watch cameras that are being added?

schestowitz

maybe associate it with hard drugs

Mogzagain

a selfie one and one to film others!

Mogzagain

seriously creepy, and no regard for anyone around the dumbo wearing the apple watch

schestowitz

[13:53] <Mogzagain> have you seen the apple watch cameras that are being added?

schestowitz

I only foresaw that

Mogzagain

someone could film a girl, do an image search online, and find out her details!

schestowitz

and made joke about people wearing that while "number 2"

Mogzagain

or with a kid!

schestowitz

and Apple gets footage

schestowitz

BTW, Google CCTVGlasses was no better

schestowitz

those were CCTV on users legs

schestowitz

going into places and filming for another country without authorisation

Mogzagain

just terrible; how disgusting that apple don't care that their devices can harm ppl in those ways

schestowitz

with Amazon "doorbells" those don't have the same moobility

schestowitz

*mobolity

schestowitz

*mobility

Mogzagain

and notice their advertising didn't have any photos of ppl along the bottom of the page ... a dog, landscapes ... but no ppl

Mogzagain

so the KNOW that this can be an issue

schestowitz

but this is why Microsoft et al cannot be our sole focus

schestowitz

if Microsoft was bankrupt later today, we'd still need to get to work urgently

Mogzagain

yes, someone could point these cameras anywhere, and no permission to do so

schestowitz

against many other things

Mogzagain

*they know

schestowitz

that was a decade back

schestowitz

I sort of predicted Google Maps 2 decades ago

schestowitz

It was not hard to predict

schestowitz

it was doable already, given enough budget

Mogzagain

I saw MS have assessed that open source has 700 dependencies ... bit creepy that, in their own words, they did this 'deep dive' to check out all that

schestowitz

for Google, from Wall Street and Pentagon etc.

schestowitz

Later they started scanning MAC addresses of people's routers

Mogzagain

it really needs ppl en masse to be awake and aware about the gross levels of disregard for ppl's privacy, and to vote with their feet ... not buying the products, not the subscriptions or signing up online to things, etc

schestowitz

FSF rarely talks about it

schestowitz

it's not the FSF's focus

schestowitz

more like EFF's

schestowitz

but those issues are connected

schestowitz

unlike vegetarianism say...

Mogzagain

yes, EFF is certainly a lot more active

schestowitz

so an FSF that overlooks some of those other issues would not be as effective as can be

schestowitz

FSF is slow

schestowitz

stagnant

schestowitz

hardly any activism or even writings

schestowitz

not sure what they do all day tbh

Mogzagain

yes, so it's very important to focus on who and what does care and do something

schestowitz

a few of us at techrights manage to produce more publicly-visible things; I know FSF does loads more behind the scenes

schestowitz

eff has other issues

schestowitz

it has to be careful who to criticise

Mogzagain

yes, that's cool, and, increasingly, it really is about the ppl, beyond organisations

schestowitz

for fear of 'offending' members and sponsors

schestowitz

who are the lifeline, in the long run (they already stashed 40 million in the bank)

Dec 06 14:01

schestowitz

they could end up like mozilla, aimless and collapsing

Dec 06 14:01

Mogzagain

a shame, as with Blender etc. corporate money never leads to anywhere good it seems

Dec 06 14:01

schestowitz

Nope

schestowitz

we started watching lots of Blender videos

schestowitz

Blender isn't corrupted yet

schestowitz

but if it grows, opportunists will try to co-opt it

schestowitz

one first step might be to oust its founder

schestowitz

by engineering a scandal

schestowitz

then use the scandal to split the company/contributors

schestowitz

and "ride in to the rescue" as a sponsor

schestowitz

when they lack a strong and charismatic person like Ton

Mogzagain

btw, one idea I had for an image was possibly a bit creepy, so just to run it by you ... it could be effective in new ppl maybe waking up a bit more, but I thought some of kind of terminator robot, but in a familiar setting, to really bring it home to not support e.g. IoT etc

schestowitz

sounds good

Mogzagain

if Blender stay in their integrity, that's awesome!

schestowitz

but very 'maintreamy'

schestowitz

robots like these are more hypothetical a risk

Mogzagain

and glad it sounds okay. I've got a few ideas, so will get those to you as and when I can.

schestowitz

drones are existing already

schestowitz

boston dynamics makes some animal-like robots

schestowitz

with body-mounted guns in the long run

schestowitz

human form is bad for robots

schestowitz

it's easy for the robot to lose balance and fall

Mogzagain

I suppose seeing issues with police and then ppl talk about robots replacing them, stuff like that, and I thought ppl would recognise e.g. terminator 2

Mogzagain

no worries; it would be creepy to paint anyway, lol

Mogzagain

brighter things I can do

schestowitz

spiders or 4-legged is more versatile when function is the aim

Mogzagain

a backdrop of the statue of liberty or something

schestowitz

at the moment the most dangerous robot is people themselves

Mogzagain

yuk, yeah, that creepy robot dog thing

schestowitz

like people who walk aroudn the house "filming grandma"

*CrystalMath (~coderain@reactos/developer/theflash) has joined #techrights

schestowitz

and then "uploading to Facebook for lols and likes"

schestowitz

Based on a true story

schestowitz

my aunt

schestowitz

she hated her grandkids doing that

Mogzagain

yes, I firmly believe ppl have all the power and all the numbers on their side. If ppl are awake about what matters, and don't support the negative, these issues go away

schestowitz

back around 2005 already

schestowitz

she only wanted her privacy and dignity, not spies at the dinner table

Mogzagain

yes, poor grandma ... just wanting some privacy at home!

schestowitz

she died about 7 years ago

Mogzagain

awww

schestowitz

with dementia, years after her husband

Mogzagain

sorry about that

schestowitz

the kids are still socialites in FB

schestowitz

filming for "likes"

schestowitz

I'd link to Groklaw, but...

Dec 06 14:08

schestowitz

it's offline

Dec 06 14:08

schestowitz

PJ, a lady now in her 70s her reckon (maybe 80), used to write about privacy aspects

Dec 06 14:08

schestowitz

and I think the painting needs to convey this

Mogzagain

It's awful how kids grow up surrounded by invasive tech now.

schestowitz

something about having the corner to think in isolation without being observed

schestowitz

or being listened to

schestowitz

and she cited some books about that

Mogzagain

I'm not old, but just am glad to have not had that experience; more music practice back then, school work, stuff like that.

schestowitz

the front page of techrights.org talks a lot about that

schestowitz

in general terms, other than software freedom

Mogzagain

I've looked up groklaw just now

Mogzagain

they have a twitter too, lol

schestowitz

maybe we should redo the front page with your paintings

schestowitz

I think their twitter account was not an official one

Mogzagain

hmmm, that's a cool idea ... RMS is on the front page isn't he?

schestowitz

someone made that link, maybe even a bot rather than manual, to new articles there

schestowitz

Mogzagain: yeah, RMS was there; I was meeting him in person several times at the time

schestowitz

he was supposed to come here until corona hit

Mogzagain

that's so great!

Mogzagain

yes, I recall he was going to come to the UK

schestowitz

public speaking is now crappy webchat

schestowitz

I don't get those things

schestowitz

they call those "events"

schestowitz

but what advantage over static, archived copies?

schestowitz

except Q&A

schestowitz

you can just watch or binge a bunch of popular old talks

schestowitz

without it being "live"

Mogzagain

yes, streamy stuff without a hard copy is highly irritating, I think

schestowitz

Today I asked a friend whether to make videos and audio again in techrights

Mogzagain

always good if ppl have backup and can rewatch and reread stuff

schestowitz

we're still partly considering that

Mogzagain

that sounds interesting!

schestowitz

but time-consuming

schestowitz

I have a question

schestowitz

do you want a new site section for you

schestowitz

for art?

Mogzagain

I'm seeing rms, gnu, snowy mountains, edward (I've blanked on his surname!/anti-prism/x-nsa), a lock, arch, on the front page

schestowitz

"TheLinuxGrandma" when she worked with us had a section for "flying chairlet" and stuff

schestowitz

it was artistic work

schestowitz

Mogzagain: I think maybe focus less on personifying the issues

schestowitz

and people change

schestowitz

faces come and go

Mogzagain

Having an art section is lovely. I'm not sure how fast I could fill it up, but if ppl enjoy it, I can for example do things such as I'm seeing on the front page, some penguins, etc, basically linuxy stuff but painterly.

schestowitz

In Orwell's work, the characters and issues are the same

schestowitz

Winston could be born in 2002

schestowitz

or in 1952

Mogzagain

flying chairlet?

schestowitz

the face does not exist

schestowitz

except in the movie '1984'

oiaohm

I have just done my yearly ascii art christmas cards in libreoffice.

schestowitz

so we need to focus on issues/ideas/concepts

schestowitz

oiaohm: can you share it?

Mogzagain

sounds good, oiaohm

schestowitz

we still set up a large physical xmas tree

schestowitz

seeing almost nobody else in the block bothered this year

oiaohm

They are limited run. Only for people I know in person who I have real world mail address of.

schestowitz

and we turn all the lights on at night even though we cannot see them

Mogzagain

xmas lights look good all year round, lol

oiaohm

We have a small wooden xmas tree.

oiaohm

That folds up every year.

schestowitz

Mogzagain: http://techrights.org/category/flying-chairlet/

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Flying Chairlet | Techrights

schestowitz

nothing fancy, "TheLinuxGrandma" made cartoons like these

schestowitz

I know her real name, but she likes privacy

schestowitz

they were in a book publishing company

Mogzagain

nice clean art; very good!

oiaohm

And its not one of these horrible nightmares https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/christmas/targets-89-wooden-christmas-tree-slammed-as-an-eyesore/news-story/bea840d0e1f9ecaacdd84d2e1ee62f42

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.news.com.au | Target’s $89 wooden Christmas tree slammed as an ‘eyesore’

Mogzagain

she's sensible, yes to keep her name off the internet

schestowitz

there are several small trees in here also, but only one very large one, though it still doesn't 'feel' like xmas this year

schestowitz

Mogzagain: I have this theory

Mogzagain

yes?

schestowitz

about older people liking privacy

schestowitz

when people are young to want to be seen

schestowitz

dating, showing off, growing up

schestowitz

maturing etc.

schestowitz

so they share lots of things for affirmation

Mogzagain

yes, often so, although you can get your introverts

*inky has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)

schestowitz

when people age they long for the days they had more to show off, physically in particular

Mogzagain

ppl are still developing in their 20s, still finding out what they really want to do, still exploring

schestowitz

but for them, the Internet does not and cannot show the "best of them:

schestowitz

unless they start uploading childhood photo albums

schestowitz

young kids have no notion od privacy

oiaohm

That reminds me I still have to do up my christmas/anzac day Wreath for its Christmas placement and usage.

schestowitz

their have photos of them uploaded since birth

schestowitz

sometimes AT birth, which is perverse

schestowitz

the concaine-LIKE addicts do that to them

oiaohm

Please note its a Wreath I made from garden prunings.

schestowitz

*cocaine

Mogzagain

yes, ppl beyond 20's/30's often come to have more value for privacy, but I think a fair number of younger ppl are aware, and most likely even more so this year

schestowitz

I saw people uploading videos of their parents in their deathbed

schestowitz

truly awful

schestowitz

so all "the Internet" remember them for is some 90s/80s on an inhalator

schestowitz

stay classy I say..

Mogzagain

the AT birth is surreal! I really feel that kind of thing should be private. And maybe when the baby grows up, they'd not be comfy either with it.

schestowitz

I saw yougn kids uploading nakes photos of other kids to fb

schestowitz

for the "lols"

schestowitz

I guess pedophiles like those idiots

Mogzagain

that is terrible

oiaohm

My ascii art cards are card on one side of the A4 and letter on the other and folded correctly.

Mogzagain

these kind of things really need privacy respected, for sure

oiaohm

So very paper effective.

schestowitz

Italy has stricter laws on this, not sure why Italy

schestowitz

but those are edge cases, the case for privacy can be made on another level

schestowitz

though how to put that in a one-frame painting I'm not sure

schestowitz

except if unoriginal

Mogzagain

yes, it's shocking what some younger ppl do. apparently a youtube guy was getting viewers to do large superchats, then he'd abuse his pregnant girlfriend. he put her outside in the cold for ages, while he kept streaming, and very sadly she died. a really terrible example of how insane and heartless online can be.

Mogzagain

the superchats would request how to abuse her

Dec 06 14:25

Mogzagain

the youtuber has been sentenced to 2 years

schestowitz

I saw people bullying kids at schools

schestowitz

taking footage was their motivator

Mogzagain

yes, madness

schestowitz

I still saw one 'vlogger' who had done that yesterday

oiaohm

?? Only 2 years in prison.

schestowitz

it makes people act bad

schestowitz

makes cops act a little better

oiaohm

Australia laws normally would not be that nice.

Mogzagain

yes, just 2 years ... unbelievable!

oiaohm

What country was that.

Dec 06 14:27

schestowitz

youtubelandia

Dec 06 14:27

Mogzagain

the youtuber is Stas Reeflay

Dec 06 14:27

schestowitz

what's a youtuber anyway?

schestowitz

They're defined by what account they set up in soem megacorp?

oiaohm

Its like with Australia nude /semi photos of people under 18 being send around email, internet... that punishable offence that can be quite a few years jail alone.

schestowitz

It's a jerk with a youtube account

schestowitz

I often call them "person with webcam and youtube account"

schestowitz

nowadays drone operators are being called "pilots"

Mogzagain

the Sun's come up first in my search for the link, not that I read that ever, but just search his name and you'll see how awful ... a shocking thing for ppl. shows how depraved social media can get.

schestowitz

but they never leave their chair

schestowitz

Mogzagain: I saw similar "jerks with cams"

Mogzagain

this guy should have had at least the rest of his life in jail; sadistic doesn't even cover it

oiaohm

Depends on the drone class. Thare are some drone classes in australia where you required a pilot license.

schestowitz

abused their partner

schestowitz

and having chats about it with other youtube-registered assholes

schestowitz

oiaohm: that's dumb

schestowitz

that still doesn't make you a pilot when you operate it remoately

Mogzagain

good to know Australia are taking things more seriously

schestowitz

like being a chef who buys food online

schestowitz

Australia started as convicts

schestowitz

who were sent to a land of 'uncivilised' aboriginals

schestowitz

and Aussies are notably racist

schestowitz

ask people who lived there

schestowitz

so the laws try to keep that under control

Mogzagain

lol, pilots! steering a drone is nothing like flying a massive plane.

schestowitz

it's like a computer game

schestowitz

only you are staring at a real thing

schestowitz

which you control with a joystick that sends commands to it

Mogzagain

I've learnt something there; didn't know some drones needed a license like that.

oiaohm

schestowitz: Not dumb there are jet class drones that can fly in commercial passage jet levels. Yes the license is that you know how to do all correct flying by airtraffic control and so on.

schestowitz

not physically connected to the bits and parts

schestowitz

just sending commands to it

schestowitz

oiaohm: the altitude is low

schestowitz

like helicopters sometimes

schestowitz

so aviation rules for commercial jets are not so applicable

schestowitz

maybe military jets, yes

schestowitz

drones are really awfully nd cheap planes

schestowitz

thousands of tjem crash

schestowitz

even the large ones

schestowitz

and they never report it

oiaohm

There are some monitoring drones in Australia for really large area work that fly between 10000 to 20000 feet in Australia.

oiaohm

So commercial jet airspace.

schestowitz

IIRC, around 2013, over 600 had already crashed, according to bezos post (I think just before bezos bought it)

oiaohm

Of course if you are operating a drone up there you better know the rules of a normal comerical jet.

oiaohm

thinking most commerical jets are fly by wire these days.

schestowitz

[14:33] <oiaohm> There are some monitoring drones in Australia for really large area work that fly between 10000 to 20000 feet in Australia.

schestowitz

Those would be reconnaissance

schestowitz

We're talking about Predator-grade

Mogzagain

get chills about if drones become the norm for deliveries; not normal or right, especially if they're crashing everywhere and stuff stolen etc

oiaohm

Some are comerical for power lines and so on.

oiaohm

So not milatary.

schestowitz

people on the ground hear the buzzing

oiaohm

schestowitz: large areas of Australia means we have some odd things.

schestowitz

btw, I was 'friends' (online) with the biggest drone killer

schestowitz

the one who killed over 1600 people with a drone

Mogzagain

yes?

schestowitz

and then blew the whistle

oiaohm

USA those classes of drones would be military only.

schestowitz

then he got many death threats

Mogzagain

omg

schestowitz

moved to Germany last I heard

schestowitz

even his parents received threats

schestowitz

he didn't think about that when he joined usaf

schestowitz

that it can come back to haunt him as well as loved ones

schestowitz

who don't get Secret Service-level protections

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schestowitz

there are not many drone strike whistleblowers

schestowitz

I became friends with some more

schestowitz

(online friends)

schestowitz

under Trump nobody even talks about the drone strikes anymore

oiaohm

USA still uses cluster bombs in battle that have been illegal since end of world war II by the rules of laws most countries agreed to.

oiaohm

So usa miss using drones should basically be expected.

schestowitz

I guess that's kind of inevitable when you elect as president a man who wants to "f* his own daughter'

schestowitz

[14:37] <oiaohm> USA still uses cluster bombs in battle that have been illegal since end of world war II by the rules of laws most countries agreed to.

schestowitz

worse

schestowitz

cluster bombs are banned because of civilian casualties

schestowitz

inc. rescuers

Mogzagain

I'll need to head off now, but thanks so much again for the correction, and glad the art was useful. As in email, I can get some stuff to you when I can; I'll just keep with generic linuxy stuff, or see what kind of things are on articles and stuff. Have a good rest of the day all.

schestowitz

unexploded ordinance of small scale

schestowitz

when I covered drones a lot 10-7 years ago they did multi-tap strikes

schestowitz

just "to make sure"

schestowitz

so the rescuers would not approach the scene

schestowitz

those who did would be drone by the second or third strike

schestowitz

iirc, sometimes they even struck 4 times in a row

schestowitz

suicide bombers use that tactic

schestowitz

detonate

schestowitz

wait

schestowitz

then detonate again

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schestowitz

and sometimes more die the second time around

schestowitz

that's the sort of thing Obama era drone strikes did

schestowitz

then they 'drones' the media

schestowitz

and nobody was left to report on drone strikes under Trump

schestowitz

now it's just... "normal"...

oiaohm

There is a difference between using a drone for target strike on a party and being a USA asshole.

schestowitz

the "secret war" as they used to call these...

schestowitz

"clandestine"... "don't ask questions".... "let the adults manage it"... "they know what they're doing"

oiaohm

Multi tap strikes is a really good way to have the population of the area hate you.

schestowitz

Israel does the tap differently

schestowitz

small ordinnace first

schestowitz

as warning

schestowitz

then a 500lb/1000lb blockbuster

oiaohm

Not that it really works either.

schestowitz

sometimes shot from a place like 20KM away

schestowitz

then they tell the media they "Warned" the people

schestowitz

not with leaflets

schestowitz

but with "ethical strikes"

schestowitz

"good bombs".... for "Warning"

oiaohm

small ordinnace first is a historic way to make sure your targeting is correct before you send the big one.

schestowitz

as if the terrorists or targets don't get the warning too

oiaohm

So yes that small than big does reduce miss targeting.

schestowitz

the actual targets are likely to be more sensitive and impervious actually

oiaohm

But its still not the best plan.

schestowitz

because they already know they're likely targets

https://twitter.com/RicoReport/status/1335583963356786688

oiaohm

There are such things are good bombs but they are insanely rare. It warped history of particular large bombs shells being filled with food/medical supplies instead of explosves. So that unexploded round in fact being something useful.

Dec 06 14:47

oiaohm

Also they got nicknamed loto bombs for very good reason.

Dec 06 14:48

schestowitz

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@RicoReport: @saifedean @MrHodl she is a woman.. Billy Gayeeeets and his man wife are both hiding in plain sight. Fact : Majori… https://t.co/tKF50dy5Hh

schestowitz

schestowitz

she is a woman.. Billy Gayeeeets and his man wife are both hiding in plain sight.

schestowitz

Fact : Majority of elite rich deep state criminals have men for wives, but he is a woman that was groomed by his mommy, and helped steal Microsoft from #Kildall http://techrights.org/2020/01/05/history-canceled/

schestowitz

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The Death of Gary Kildall Remains a Mystery to This Date | Techrights

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https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-pro-2008-3-1-reinstall-macos-or-ubuntu-linux.2273705/

oiaohm

I like the Australia one of that 303 rounds would go bad if left on ground so due use any that were dropped. Really reason was internionally droping 303 rounds packed with high exploves that if you used in a normal gun would blow the complete breach out.

Dec 06 14:51

schestowitz

Dec 06 14:53

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-forums.macrumors.com | Mac Pro 2008 (3,1) -- reinstall MacOS, or Ubuntu linux? | MacRumors Forums

Dec 06 14:53

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Dec 06 15:01

oiaohm

https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/4/21246223/macbook-keyboard-butterfly-magic-pro-apple-design That mac pro 2008 is before apple screwed the keyboard over.

Dec 06 15:23

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.theverge.com | The saga of Apple’s bad butterfly MacBook keyboards is finally over - The Verge

Dec 06 15:23

oiaohm

and before they made SSD not replaceable.

Dec 06 15:23

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Dec 06 15:29

schestowitz

just now: https://truthout.org/articles/trump-has-pushed-ahead-with-drone-strikes-putting-us-citizens-in-the-crosshairs/

Dec 06 15:34

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-truthout.org | Trump Has Pushed Ahead With Drone Strikes, Putting US Citizens in the Crosshairs

Dec 06 15:34

superkuh

Bush, Obama, and Trump.

Dec 06 15:47

superkuh

I'm sure Biden will too.

Dec 06 15:47

superkuh

Oh, nice, this article actually addresses that immediately.

Dec 06 15:47

superkuh

Funny how the push to get rid of the 2001 AUMF was dropped as soon as the election started up.

Dec 06 15:49

superkuh

How does biden stand? He was part of the disposition matrix during the Obama presidency. He already participated.

Dec 06 15:50

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Dec 06 15:58

MinceR

(cat) https://ircz.de/p/2007183

Dec 06 16:38

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4762532)

Dec 06 16:38

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Dec 06 16:58

DaemonFC[m]

schestowitz: If the president is ordering "targeted killings" of Americans abroad, imagine what's actually going on in the US that's meant to look like "random crime" or "natural causes".

Dec 06 17:04

DaemonFC[m]

How hard would it be, if there's a preacher in Chicago you don't like because he's a Communist Muslim or something, to have a staged "drive by" using the cops or something dressed up like gang members?

Dec 06 17:05

DaemonFC[m]

Or whatever Blackwater calls themselves these days.

Dec 06 17:05

schestowitz

https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=20/12/04/185241

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-soylentnews.org | Linux Foundation Does Not Eat its Own Dogfood - SoylentNews

schestowitz

"Blogger Daniel Lange takes a look at the Linux Foundation's 2020 annual report, and concludes that it was produced with Adobe, which is not available on Linux. Further sleuthing by a commentator reveals that the original was created on Microsoft Word. Stock images used for illustration mostly show Apple MacBooks. This is what you get for a $148 million annual budget."

DaemonFC[m]

schestowitz: The Biden win is not really a win for the US except to the extent that it's a return to something less horrible.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/carroll/opinion/cc-op-community-voices-120320-20201203-j6r3onz5cbc2ppxx5imlujdem4-story.html

DaemonFC[m]

That's only because we seem to have hit bedrock with Trump on how many unconstitutional nightmares could be going on at once.

Dec 06 17:10

schestowitz

Dec 06 17:14

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.baltimoresun.com | Clark: ‘Have we waited too long?’ Pearl Harbor, deniers and climate change | COMMENTARY - Carroll County Times

Dec 06 17:14

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Dec 06 17:21

MinceR

(audio:important) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB34-qX_b4s

Dec 06 17:22

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Composers Play - "Heretic" Coop with Kevin Schilder! - Episode 1 - YouTube

Dec 06 17:22

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DaemonFC[m]

It was pretty clear that even though Trump couldn't overturn enough states to win that he was trying to get it down to as small a lead as possible.

DaemonFC[m]

At that point he could try to corrupt some electors.

DaemonFC[m]

If you can get it down to 270 and all you have to do is make one of them a deal that they'd take to switch their vote, you can still throw it to the House.

Dec 06 17:24

DaemonFC[m]

So I was worried that we'd end up in a situation where Biden won but only by one or two electors, and then Trump would be offering all of them whatever it took to get them to switch their votes.

Dec 06 17:25

DaemonFC[m]

I'm not really concerned that any states are going to try to reverse their own results. They're all certified at this point, and the safe harbor date is Tuesday.

Dec 06 17:26

DaemonFC[m]

Which means that after Tuesday, if a state tried something like that, it wouldn't flip to Trump electors. Federal law says that they would just get no electors seated at all.

Dec 06 17:26

DaemonFC[m]

There's nothing in the laws of any states where Trump is trying to get public officials to commit crimes on his behalf that would allow them to do anything of the sort, but even if they tried, after Tuesday it would just go from Biden electors to no electors at all.

Dec 06 17:27

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DaemonFC[m]

There's theoretically 6 days between Tuesday and the electoral college meeting where the federal courts could do something, but the only case that Trump is even trying to appeal involved about 10,000 ballots in Pennsylvania, so there's no case in front of them where they could go further than ordering 10,000 votes in Pennsylvania to be thrown out, and they'd have to torture the law to do that, and it wouldn't change

DaemonFC[m]

anything.

DaemonFC[m]

So there's no hint that they even plan to hear this.

DaemonFC[m]

They have too many pending cases that do matter on their docket.

Dec 06 17:30

DaemonFC[m]

The current count is like 41 losses in court and 1 win for the Trump campaign, but the win was so small it doesn't matter.

Dec 06 17:30

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Dec 06 17:31

DaemonFC[m]

Judges are beyond annoyed, because the campaign's tactics were apparently to just keep amending their complaints and switching out lawyers and asking for delays and leaves to amend to drag it out and not get it thrown out until it was too late for the states to certify.

Dec 06 17:31

DaemonFC[m]

But that didn't happen....anywhere.

Dec 06 17:31

DaemonFC[m]

They knew that the very best they would get would be a preliminary injunction and their goal was to filibuster judges until after the safe harbor deadline.

Dec 06 17:32

DaemonFC[m]

This is bordering on contempt. If anything, the judges showed significant restraint that most people who were openly trying to defraud the court would never get.

Dec 06 17:33

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Dec 06 17:38

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Dec 06 17:44

MinceR

https://xkcd.com/2266/

Dec 06 17:46

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-xkcd: Leap Smearing

Dec 06 17:46

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Dec 06 17:59

MinceR

https://xkcd.com/2272/

Dec 06 18:12

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-xkcd: Ringtone Timeline

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Dec 06 18:41

schestowitz

Should we do another UPC piece?

schestowitz

zoobab: lots of lies today

schestowitz

and the past few days

schestowitz

the lobby is elated

schestowitz

same lobbyists as before e.g. http://techrights.org/2020/07/31/managing-ip-fake-news/

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Managing IP Still Champions Fake ‘News’ for Team UPC | Techrights

search_social

there are so many articles about who is just a corporate pawn it would probably be easier to make a list of who is NOT

Dec 06 19:00

MinceR

(cat) https://ircz.de/p/20071736

Dec 06 19:00

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4761395)

Dec 06 19:00

MinceR

"list of people not yet known to be corporate pawns at UPC"?

schestowitz

search_social: true

schestowitz

but it's trickier

schestowitz

as not many people know those lists

schestowitz

they just 'google things'

MinceR

though a list of who _is_ could include which corporation they're pawns of :>

MinceR

and citations

schestowitz

that would be a big project

Dec 06 19:02

schestowitz

as sometimes you lack articles explaining those sorts of things

Dec 06 19:02

schestowitz

so one option is to make an index for each publisher

Dec 06 19:02

schestowitz

http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Watchtroll and http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/IAM for example work closely with Microsoft

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Watchtroll - Techrights

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IAM - Techrights

schestowitz

maybe we need a new wiki page for eff, ten sfc

schestowitz

*then

schestowitz

figosdev has scripts to generate such lists

schestowitz

but he has not run them in about a year

schestowitz

maybe it's time to have a go at it and rerun for 2020 archives as well

schestowitz

AFAIK, zoobab is still preparing his constitutional complaint, with about a week left to complete

Dec 06 19:06

schestowitz

I have half a dozen BS "pieces" and unsure if writing a rebuttal to them would just give them more visibility, proving to be counter-productive

Dec 06 19:07

schestowitz

tbh, I'd rather focus on epo leaks tonight

Dec 06 19:07

schestowitz

and then some free software advocacy

schestowitz

seeing that UPC cannot go on regardless

schestowitz

due to brexit for starters

schestowitz

It's a big like suffocating a corpse

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Dec 06 19:23

MinceR

https://xkcd.com/2304/

Dec 06 19:26

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-xkcd: Preprint

Dec 06 19:26

DaemonFC[m]

The "tech media" has devolved into buzzword bullshit bingo.

Dec 06 19:53

DaemonFC[m]

It's a'' "sponsored content" now.

Dec 06 19:53

DaemonFC[m]

*all

Dec 06 19:53

oiaohm

https://dylanbeattie.net/songs/framework.html this song I always find fun.

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-We’re Gonna Build a Framework : dylanbeattie.net

schestowitz

[19:53] <DaemonFC[m]> It's a'' "sponsored content" now.

schestowitz

that too

schestowitz

there are variants

schestowitz

LF pays sites for puff pieces also

schestowitz

sometimes with disclosure included

schestowitz

something without

oiaohm

There are a stack of different ways to pay for puff piecees while not looking directly connected either.

oiaohm

Fun of PR companies.

schestowitz

true

schestowitz

very true

schestowitz

I keep mentioning that

schestowitz

like buying ads

schestowitz

selling "consulting"

schestowitz

buying "studies"

schestowitz

so they set up parallel operations for bribe collections

schestowitz

and the PR agencies basically launder the money that way

https://www.thedailybeast.com/michigan-ruling-rudy-giuliani-touted-as-a-big-win-actually-concerned-a-local-marijuana-measure

oiaohm

Most fun one is the fake industry body stunt.

Dec 06 19:57

oiaohm

That turned up quite a few times with right to repair.

Dec 06 19:57

DaemonFC[m]

Dec 06 19:59

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.thedailybeast.com | Michigan Ruling Rudy Giuliani Touted as a ‘Big Win’ Actually Concerned a Local Marijuana Measure

Dec 06 19:59

schestowitz

Don't tell Carl Farmer

Dec 06 20:00

schestowitz

or he might never get it on ever again

Dec 06 20:00

DaemonFC[m]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/president-donald-trump-loves-disastrous-ballot-witness-melissa-carone

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.thedailybeast.com | President Donald Trump Loves Disastrous Ballot Witness Melissa Carone

schestowitz

he loves women who lie

schestowitz

except those whom he raped

schestowitz

then he calls them liars

wow https://ballotpedia.org/Jo_Jorgensen_presidential_campaign,_2020

schestowitz

and hates them

Dec 06 20:02

oiaohm

DaemonFC[m]: there is a fairly good way to limit marijuana start growing the Australian GM crop of industrial hemp. Result of those two crossing is low yield THC plants.

Dec 06 20:05

oiaohm

I can plant industrial hemp as a garden plant. The DNA modification means it had a different leaf pattern to normal marijuana as well as insanely low THC.

Dec 06 20:06

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Dec 06 20:12

schestowitz

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ballotpedia.org | Jo Jorgensen presidential campaign, 2020 - Ballotpedia

schestowitz

I didn't know she was the party leader this time around

schestowitz

the media pretended she did not even exist

schestowitz

in 2016 they at least pretended that at least 4 parties existed

schestowitz

"She was the Libertarian vice presidential nominee in 1996"

schestowitz

From Illinois

schestowitz

"She worked as a marketing representative for IBM before launching a software sales business in South Carolina in 1983. "

schestowitz

Former IBM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/06/world/rudy-giuliani-covid.html

schestowitz

but wants "small government"

Dec 06 20:20

schestowitz

"After taking a sabbatical to raise her children, Jorgensen started a consulting company and earned her Ph.D. in industrial and organizational psychology from Clemson University in 2002"

Dec 06 20:20

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Dec 06 20:28

DaemonFC[m]

In a first past the post system, all small parties do is potentially sabotage the major party on their general side of the spectrum.

Dec 06 20:30

DaemonFC[m]

That's why the Republicans were giving Howie Hawkins money and lawyers.

Dec 06 20:31

DaemonFC[m]

Maybe the Russians too. Stein and Putin and all that.

Dec 06 20:31

DaemonFC[m]

There's no reason why Putin would invite someone who couldn't win election to come "talk policy".

Dec 06 20:31

DaemonFC[m]

What they were doing was discussing how to use the Green Party to sabotage Clinton and get Trump elected.

Dec 06 20:32

DaemonFC[m]

Probably how much Russian money would be waiting for her in an offshore bank account after she did.

Dec 06 20:32

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Dec 06 21:10

brett98

read about gnew on tech rights -- totally down with that

Dec 06 21:10

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Dec 06 21:12

DaemonFC[m]

Dec 06 21:15

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.nytimes.com | Rudy Giuliani Has Tested Positive For The Coronavirus, Trump Says - The New York Times

Dec 06 21:15

DaemonFC[m]

Previously, https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/06/trump-lawyer-rudy-giuliani-masks-coronavirus-fox-news

Dec 06 21:19

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.theguardian.com | Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani coughs his way through anti-mask interview | Rudy Giuliani | The Guardian

Dec 06 21:19

schestowitz

orange karma

Dec 06 21:25

schestowitz

DaemonFC[m]: it'll be over 1000 deaths this sunday

Dec 06 21:27

schestowitz

TX not reporting yet

Dec 06 21:27

schestowitz

230 in uk https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274

Dec 06 21:27

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.bbc.co.uk | Covid-19 in the UK: How many coronavirus cases are there in your area? - BBC News

Dec 06 21:28

schestowitz

oiaohm: "Please fix the slide deck link it points to a local file instead of the website."

https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/latest-phoronix-articles/1224280-intel-microsoft-continue-work-on-replacing-more-smm-black-boxes-with-prm\

schestowitz

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 404 @ https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/latest-phoronix-articles/1224280-intel-microsoft-continue-work-on-replacing-more-smm-black-boxes-with-prm\ )

https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/latest-phoronix-articles/1224280-intel-microsoft-continue-work-on-replacing-more-smm-black-boxes-with-prm

schestowitz

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Intel + Microsoft Continue Work On Replacing More SMM "Black Boxes" With PRM - Phoronix Forums

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Belgium%20Barbeque

*GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights

Dec 06 22:10

MinceR

Dec 06 22:11

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.urbandictionary.com | Urban Dictionary: Belgium Barbeque

Dec 06 22:11

schestowitz

Orban again?

Dec 06 22:12

schestowitz

Don't tell me it's (blow) Jobbik

Dec 06 22:13

MinceR

it's fideath, not lobbik

Dec 06 22:20

*xvx (~xvx@185.48.63.106) has joined #techrights

Dec 06 22:20

schestowitz

wait till the throw a coalition party

Dec 06 22:24

MinceR

they probably won't

Dec 06 22:26

MinceR

MHM split out of lobbik and they're fideath's best friends now

Dec 06 22:26

MinceR

lobbik wants to replace fidSS in the EPP

Dec 06 22:27

MinceR

so they're more moderate than fideath now

Dec 06 22:27

MinceR

(also known as the feed-ass crew)

Dec 06 22:28

DaemonFC[m]

I might grab the Fedora respin ISO.

Dec 06 22:29

DaemonFC[m]

Linux 5.9 probably supports the new laptop better than that OEM 5.6 kernel in Ubuntu 20.04. Here we go again, maybe.

Dec 06 22:29

schestowitz

try debian bullseye

Dec 06 22:30

schestowitz

https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2020/12/msg00001.html

Dec 06 22:30

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-lists.debian.org | Debian Installer Bullseye Alpha 3 release

Dec 06 22:30

DaemonFC[m]

" Since Apple's new M1 CPU seems to execute emulated x86 code faster than Intel and AMD executes native x86 code, maybe it is time for Intel and AMD just to ditch x86 and build a ARM CPU or a RISC-V CPU with emulation for x86? "

Dec 06 22:37

DaemonFC[m]

Where is the proof?

Dec 06 22:37

superkuh

Apple hype has never been related to data.

Dec 06 22:39

schestowitz

started as anti-IBM

Dec 06 22:47

schestowitz

IBM: think

Dec 06 22:47

schestowitz

Apple: think different

Dec 06 22:47

schestowitz

Microsoft: stop thinking

schestowitz

Apple: stop Microsoft

schestowitz

GNU: stop all the liars above

schestowitz

of course it's back full circle coz IBM bougth Red Hat

schestowitz

and now shoves proprietary-like crap into distros

> https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/new-raspberry-pi-os-release-december-2020/

schestowitz

it also develops on Microsoft servers

Dec 06 22:49

schestowitz

While Microsoft says it loves Linux

Dec 06 22:49

schestowitz

Hannibal loves Clarice Starling.

Dec 06 22:49

MinceR

Hannibal Smith?

Dec 06 22:54

schestowitz

just Hannibal Hannibal

Dec 06 22:55

MinceR

Hannibal Barca?

Dec 06 22:55

schestowitz

Ariadne: any success getting in touch with href (by anyone)?

Dec 06 22:55

DaemonFC[m]

Hannibal actually did like her.

Dec 06 22:56

DaemonFC[m]

He hated rude people and if you were a rude person then he was much more likely to eat you.

Dec 06 22:57

schestowitz

Dec 06 22:57

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.raspberrypi.org | New Raspberry Pi OS release — December 2020 - Raspberry Pi

> <https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/new-raspberry-pi-os-release-december-2020/>

schestowitz

schestowitz

schestowitz

>> We’ve updated the Chromium browser to version 84

schestowitz

schestowitz

> Raspberry Spi OS

schestowitz

DaemonFC[m]: Microsoft loves Canonical

DaemonFC[m]

schestowitz: In his opinion, he was improving the world.

schestowitz

it does not like "rude" community

schestowitz

it eats what does not tolerate Microsoft monopoly

DaemonFC[m]

He got rid of Dr. Chilton because he thought the guy was an asshole and a hack.

https://hugelolcdn.com/i/705656.jpg

DaemonFC[m]

He ate a member of an orchestra for playing off key.

Dec 06 22:59

DaemonFC[m]

Then there was Paul Krendler, who was messing up Clarice Starling's career at the FBI.

Dec 06 23:00

*KREYREN has quit (Remote host closed the connection)

Dec 06 23:02

*KREYREN (~kreyren@fsf/member/kreyren) has joined #techrights

Dec 06 23:02

MinceR

Dec 06 23:05

schestowitz

blue-red

Dec 06 23:11

schestowitz

maybe she was not attractive enough

Dec 06 23:11

schestowitz

[22:28] <MinceR> (also known as the feed-ass crew)

Dec 06 23:12

schestowitz

sounds similar for sure

Dec 06 23:12

schestowitz

what a bunch of arses

Dec 06 23:12

schestowitz

DaemonFC[m]: https://twitter.com/dennis0805a/status/1335630303621242882

-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@dennis0805a: @schestowitz #Trump Supporters and #MAGA Supporters became the "Snowflakes". LMFAO!!!🤣🤣🤣 33 Days After Trump's Los… https://t.co/AOC6ktkWRg

schestowitz

schestowitz

#Trump Supporters and #MAGA Supporters became the "Snowflakes". LMFAO!!!

schestowitz

Rolling on the floor laughing

schestowitz

Rolling on the floor laughing