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scienteswell the "cast a shadow" was what i was getting atOct 12 00:00
XRevan86someone whose charisma will render all internal affairs issues invisible in its light.Oct 12 00:00
MinceRShadowCasterOct 12 00:01
XRevan86scientes: Yea, indeed.Oct 12 00:01
scientesa Mohammed type of figureOct 12 00:04
scientesthat is exactly what Mohammed's revelation is perfect atOct 12 00:04
scientesand why "personality cult" is banned on WeChatOct 12 00:05
XRevan86The *fact* that the system is wired around Putin is getting more and more obvious each passing year.Oct 12 00:06
scientesBolivia is the sameOct 12 00:06
XRevan86while institutions built around him fallOct 12 00:07
scientesyou mean "without him"?Oct 12 00:07
XRevan86scientes: No, I mean the Party, healthcare, education, economical policyOct 12 00:08
scientesoh, so more like CubaOct 12 00:08
scienteswhere there is no diciplineOct 12 00:08
XRevan86police, army, list goes onOct 12 00:08
XRevan86Nothing has credibility, they just ride on Putin's back.Oct 12 00:09
scientesahhhh yes, I've heard thisOct 12 00:09
XRevan86The pension age lift worked like a wake-up call. It's not even the biggest "screw you" moment from the state.Oct 12 00:15
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XRevan86They sure didn't expect that reaction, even I haven't.Oct 12 00:15
XRevan86Russians suddenly realised that these tough times they were waiting over were actually the golden years.Oct 12 00:16
XRevan86and now they're overOct 12 00:16
scientesyes, they were golden yearsOct 12 00:17
XRevan86The bright future isn't coming. Meanwhile, the levels of corruption are accelerating annually.Oct 12 00:19
scientesyesOct 12 00:19
XRevan86What I'm getting at is that Putin's back is not infinite. The bubble is going to burst even if Putin's immortal.Oct 12 00:21
scientesthe US bubble is much much biggerOct 12 00:22
scientesright now the Hilary-loyalists are in a bitter fight with the Trump-loyalists, over a burning RomeOct 12 00:22
XRevan86Russia's regime is pretty simple by design.Oct 12 00:22
scientesI just want to survive however, and Russians are better at thatOct 12 00:23
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scientesin the 90s there were still some more realistic people, but they have been peer pressured into the bubbleOct 12 00:24
scientesor marginalizedOct 12 00:24
XRevan86scientes: It never ceases to amaze me how effective the US system is that throttling change.Oct 12 00:24
XRevan86* is at throttlingOct 12 00:25
scientes"hope and change" means no hope and no changeOct 12 00:25
XRevan86It's a lot more efficient than the Russia's "no, go away or we'll find coke on you", because there's the illusion that democracy works.Oct 12 00:26
scientesexactlyOct 12 00:26
scienteswhen I started riding Latin American buses I learned what democracy wasOct 12 00:26
scientesits a very democratic institutionOct 12 00:26
scientesbut I guess I don't really knowOct 12 00:27
XRevan86* that there's democracy at workOct 12 00:27
scientesin the US there is this massive difference in the world-view of the young and oldOct 12 00:27
scientesthey have managed to convince the old that the world is still as it was when they were youngOct 12 00:27
scientesand they convince them to give really horrible advice to the yong, based on their delusionsOct 12 00:28
scientesits a pyramid schemeOct 12 00:28
scientesbut yes, if you tell people to go away, you actually give them a chance to survive on their ownOct 12 00:29
XRevan86scientes: In the end the real system is shielded from those pesky commoners anyway.Oct 12 00:29
scientesrather than just ignoring them and lying to them, depending on the situationOct 12 00:29
XRevan86scientes: It's not like those radical opinions will actually affect anything at large.Oct 12 00:29
scientesbut what if the system is smoke and mirrorsOct 12 00:30
scientesor just ceases to existOct 12 00:30
scientesthen its far better if the commoners actually have ideasOct 12 00:30
XRevan86scientes: I wasn't saying it as if it's a good thingOct 12 00:30
XRevan86just that these fights don't matterOct 12 00:31
XRevan86At least they won't be able to change the core essence of the government, the poor will stay poor, the rich will get richer, monopolies will unite, all that stuff.Oct 12 00:33
scientesbut what if the poor are not poor?Oct 12 00:33
scientesand would rather eat at McDonalds on their credit card than become a dirty farmer?Oct 12 00:33
scientesand if they will wait for help that will never come, even when they are starving to death?Oct 12 00:34
XRevan86scientes: Then I promote them to "lower middle class" or something.Oct 12 00:34
scientesexcept that is everyone in the USOct 12 00:34
scientesI lived for years without a jobOct 12 00:34
XRevan86not everyone, wink-winkOct 12 00:34
scienteswell Mexico will annex it allOct 12 00:34
scientesre-annex itOct 12 00:34
scientesits hard to get people in South America to even imagine El Dorado in a sane wayOct 12 00:35
scientesEl Dorado with lots of drugsOct 12 00:38
psydroidif I had grown up in the US, the first thing I would do after graduating high school would be to find a way to leave the countryOct 12 01:13
*scientes should have done thatOct 12 01:13
psydroidI should have done it here too, but a few years ago I did it anywayOct 12 01:15
scientesyo mean from Ireland to Netherlands?Oct 12 01:15
psydroidnow I am just doing my studies and then I will leave againOct 12 01:16
scientesto?Oct 12 01:16
psydroidI am from the Netherlands, first I went to Poland and from there to IrelandOct 12 01:16
psydroidand then I came back here to the NetherlandsOct 12 01:17
scientesI got my Russian visa, but i messed up the paper-work and the start date is wrongOct 12 01:17
psydroidbut I am not planning to stay hereOct 12 01:17
scientesso i have to go back monday with fixed paperwork and see if they can fix itOct 12 01:17
psydroidbut your flights are not booked yet?Oct 12 01:18
scientesthey areOct 12 01:18
psydroidthe pyramid scheme is in place here too, so I don't see much of a future for myselfOct 12 01:20
scientesso for the immediate future I don't have anywhere to take my celloOct 12 01:21
psydroidmaybe I shouldn't even have gone to college and incurred debt that I can't pay off now, but simply leftOct 12 01:21
scientesyepOct 12 01:21
scientesI avoided that nonsenseOct 12 01:22
scientesand got a better education tooOct 12 01:22
psydroidrather than empowering I find that it is limiting peopleOct 12 01:25
scientesthats the pointOct 12 01:26
scientesI despise the european travelers I live with in these hostelsOct 12 01:27
psydroidwhat do they do?Oct 12 01:28
XRevan86загниваютOct 12 01:28
scientesthey are arrogant like americansOct 12 01:28
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scientesXRevan86, yepOct 12 01:29
XRevan86scientes: I can't believe you got that reference %)Oct 12 01:29
scientesi didn'tOct 12 01:30
XRevan86ohOct 12 01:30
scientesi used transducerOct 12 01:30
scientesrotOct 12 01:30
XRevan86Well, it's a common saying, sincere and ironic: загнивающая Европа or загнивающий западOct 12 01:30
XRevan86Seems to be going way backOct 12 01:31
scienteshmmm, the northern europeans felt the same way about southern europeOct 12 01:31
scientesamericans about europe, not reallyOct 12 01:31
XRevan86* can be used sincerely and can be used ironicallyOct 12 01:33
XRevan86Usually ironically in this exact form.Oct 12 01:34
XRevan86It's the "they will not last" thing again, except usually focussed on (rotten, duh) morality.Oct 12 01:35
scientesoh, that is totally differntOct 12 01:37
scientesI feel they are rottonOct 12 01:37
scientesrottenOct 12 01:37
scientesbut not moralityOct 12 01:37
scientesmore this https://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2018/06/barbarians-rampage-through-europes.htmlOct 12 01:38
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-cluborlov.blogspot.com | ClubOrlov: Barbarians Rampage through Europe's CemeteryOct 12 01:38
XRevan86scientes: Notice the way the word is inflected, it's not just rotten (гнилой), it means an ongoing process of being covered in rot.Oct 12 01:38
scientes"a sort of civilizational eunuch imprisoned in a four-star LGBTQ concentration camp."Oct 12 01:39
scientesso many inflectionsOct 12 01:40
scienteswell English has that one as a tense: rottingOct 12 01:40
XRevan86гниющийOct 12 01:41
XRevan86Oh well, the distinction is not that bigOct 12 01:47
samiamsamи до нот спеак руссианOct 12 01:49
scientesheheheOct 12 01:49
XRevan86What speck doughnut are you talking about?Oct 12 01:50
scientesспеек, right?Oct 12 01:50
scientesyes, XRevan86 pointed that out tooOct 12 01:50
samiamsamit is just 'i do not speak russian' transliteratedOct 12 01:51
XRevan86samiamsam: I'm joking :)Oct 12 01:51
scientesexcept the english vowels are not the pronounced vowelsOct 12 01:51
samiamsamyesOct 12 01:51
samiamsamso спеек indeedOct 12 01:51
XRevan86On that the pronunciation is lost in transliteration.Oct 12 01:51
XRevan86No, спикOct 12 01:51
scientesoh yeah that one is speak tooOct 12 01:52
scientes*speckOct 12 01:52
XRevan86Except with a long vowelOct 12 01:52
XRevan86Or not, I'm not thinking straightOct 12 01:53
XRevan86That would be "speyek"Oct 12 01:53
samiamsamso spikOct 12 01:53
samiamsambut noOct 12 01:53
XRevan86(with "p" palatalised)Oct 12 01:53
samiamsamso how is long e writtenOct 12 01:53
scienteseh, palatization is still hard for me in spanishOct 12 01:54
scientesthe trilled r is finially taking its full formOct 12 01:54
XRevan86samiamsam: It's not really present in literary language, but in colloquial writing… I guess the sameOct 12 01:55
XRevan86With э there's no such problem, so "uh" just goes as "ээ"Oct 12 01:56
XRevan86Нууу, ээ, я тут это, пришёл туда, а там никого неееее быылоо…Oct 12 01:58
scienteswhat!!?!?!?!Oct 12 01:58
scientesыыOct 12 01:58
scientesyou can't put two of those back to backOct 12 01:59
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XRevan86scientes: Sure you can, it's expressive in this stupid example of mineOct 12 02:00
XRevan86Whiny longer vowels in printOct 12 02:00
scientesoh okOct 12 02:00
scienteslike oooooooooooooooooooooooOct 12 02:01
XRevan86scientes: yeees, exaaactlyOct 12 02:01
XRevan86Also "ыы" is an alternative spelling for "гы" %)Oct 12 02:01
XRevan86Or any amount of ы's reallyOct 12 02:02
XRevan86Not sure if I can translate that one %).Oct 12 02:03
psydroidI have just read that article and it largely coincides with how I feel about Europe, but it seems so few of my European friends understand itOct 12 02:04
XRevan86A "ha" but in an intentionally stupid way?Oct 12 02:05
psydroidand I also know about the arroganceOct 12 02:05
XRevan86The article gives me shivers. A hint at eugenics?Oct 12 02:07
psydroidthey think being rich makes them intrinsically better peopleOct 12 02:07
XRevan86> Many of them would not be trainable in any case, coming as they are from populations bred for physical stamina and disease tolerance rather than intelligence.Oct 12 02:07
XRevan86This sentence would be highly controversial in Russia as well.Oct 12 02:08
scienteswell, it is meant to inflame passions, to reverse the rotOct 12 02:11
scientesand that mutually incompatible cultures should not live right next to each otherOct 12 02:11
scientesalso, NAFTA and the mexican+central american situation in the US was centrally plannedOct 12 02:12
scientesthe government seeing culture and society as a threat to its survivialOct 12 02:12
scientesnow they repeated it with EuropeOct 12 02:12
scientes*the pyramid schemeOct 12 02:13
XRevan86scientes: Saying some nations are smarter than other is a great way to achieve enlightenment.Oct 12 02:16
scienteswell some nations are more soverign than othersOct 12 02:16
scientesI don't really see a problem with people saying that I am better that youOct 12 02:17
scientesas long as they are willing to have pride in that pointOct 12 02:17
scientesits far more interesting that white guiltOct 12 02:17
XRevan86scientes: The article blatantly says that there's something genetically wrong about people of some nations.Oct 12 02:18
XRevan86That's article 282 kind of stuff.Oct 12 02:19
scientesit was pretty normal in the 18th and 19th centuriesOct 12 02:20
scientesand it isn't quite eugenicsOct 12 02:20
scienteseugenics and racism are quite differentOct 12 02:20
scienteseven is used for the same endsOct 12 02:21
XRevan86Well, yea, eugenics is a methodology, I misused.Oct 12 02:21
scientesI've been reading this guys stuff for years, and he has gotten less and less hesitant about the need for cultures to have sovereignty.Oct 12 02:22
scientesIn the US the invasion is a massive attack on people's moraleOct 12 02:23
scientesand there are many many issues and concerns in that article that are being actively stifledOct 12 02:24
XRevan86I'm not that interested in cultures, more in everyone's needs being met. After all, people heighten their cultural identity when they feel they are being left out.Oct 12 02:24
scientesits quite similar to the Debian and FSF issueOct 12 02:24
scienteswhen the rule of law ONLY apply for the masses, and not for more organized groups, it is equilivent to no lawOct 12 02:25
scientesand deteriorates to fascismOct 12 02:25
scientesor rights or whatever else you want to call itOct 12 02:25
scientes"respect the norms" as they say in South AmericaOct 12 02:26
XRevan86Also focus on culture forces cultures to keep their most nonsensical parts, as the more stupid, the more unique, i.e. identity-making.Oct 12 02:26
scientesyes, agree on that pointOct 12 02:26
scientesmulti-ethnic societies have a tendency to explodeOct 12 02:26
scientesand forming the existing nation-states in europe was very bloodyOct 12 02:27
scientesand now they are just stiring the potOct 12 02:27
scientesand making it MUCH more bloodyOct 12 02:27
XRevan86scientes: It's a… catalyst.Oct 12 02:28
scientesthey are creating a system that can't possible organizeOct 12 02:28
XRevan86There still has to be something seriously wrong to stirr the cultural differences.Oct 12 02:29
scientesI talked to a Frenchman living in Berlin, and he says English is more common cause so few people know GermanOct 12 02:29
XRevan86scientes: A friend of mine moved there. Says his knowledge of Swedish helps a lot.Oct 12 02:30
scientesXRevan86, I think all the wars over whether the communion is the literal body of christ would disagree...Oct 12 02:30
XRevan86Works on his German very hard. And that is with decent English.Oct 12 02:30
MinceR12 032236 < scientes> I've been reading this guys stuff for years, and he has gotten less and less hesitant about the need for cultures to have sovereignty.Oct 12 02:30
MinceRwell, since my culture doesn't match anyone else's exactly, it's obvious that i should be sovereign. :)Oct 12 02:31
XRevan86scientes: Let's focus on the modern world %).Oct 12 02:31
scientesthen......what about the current situation in XinjangOct 12 02:32
XRevan86I'm such a freak I should be sovereign over MinceROct 12 02:32
scienteswhere one culture is selling the literal organs of another cultureOct 12 02:32
MinceRlolOct 12 02:32
scientesMinceR, https://politics.theonion.com/everyone-in-middle-east-given-own-country-in-317-000-00-1819576713Oct 12 02:33
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-politics.theonion.com | Everyone In Middle East Given Own Country In 317,000,000-State SolutionOct 12 02:33
MinceRlolOct 12 02:33
XRevan86scientes: That's a mono-cultural state.Oct 12 02:34
scientesthe uyghers felt they were chineseOct 12 02:35
scientesand then learned the hard way they werentOct 12 02:35
XRevan86scientes: Talk about "something seriously wrong"Oct 12 02:35
scientesRussian is also a classified minority in ChinaOct 12 02:36
MinceRnot sure what The Onion meant by "Syrian resident" thoughOct 12 02:37
scienteseven if they have all been offered re-location money by Russian FederationOct 12 02:37
MinceReven if the uygurs were chinese, they wouldn't be han chineseOct 12 02:37
XRevan86scientes: I've heard success stories from Russians living in PRCOct 12 02:37
MinceRwhich is a fatal flaw :>Oct 12 02:37
scientesMinceR, I had a Han chinese tell me "Han isn't a political term"Oct 12 02:38
scienteshahahahahahahahahahahahaOct 12 02:38
scienteshe had worked for the government tooOct 12 02:38
scientesforeign relationsOct 12 02:38
XRevan86scientes: Did he tell you that during work hours?Oct 12 02:38
scientesno, he was now working for a US companyOct 12 02:39
scientesI mean, China claims soverignity over all foreign HanOct 12 02:39
scientesforeign-livingOct 12 02:40
MinceRscientes: did they also tell you the PRC was democratic?Oct 12 02:40
XRevan86scientes: So there's no escape?Oct 12 02:40
MinceRmanipulated livingOct 12 02:40
MinceRsounds like the USAOct 12 02:40
XRevan86I'm not very educated in these matters, is Taiwan Han?Oct 12 02:41
scientesmost of southern chinese is only recently "Han"Oct 12 02:41
scientesand that is largely due to self-identificationOct 12 02:41
scientesso Taiwan is part those natives, and part immigrants from the asia continentOct 12 02:42
scientesas it was only taken in the Qing dynastyOct 12 02:42
scienteswell I guess the Han dynasty did get that far... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_dynastyOct 12 02:43
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Han dynasty - WikipediaOct 12 02:43
scientesbut Han dynasty never took TaiwanOct 12 02:43
XRevan86So it's all about circas?Oct 12 02:44
XRevan86How long ago a territory was acquiredOct 12 02:44
scienteswell its more that the turkish uyghers look quite differentOct 12 02:45
scientesmongolians are also only barely tolerated, but at least they don't look at all europeanOct 12 02:45
scientesI actually met a mongolian-looking chinese here that said that he was talking to a bus driver and people thought he was a Peruano native working for the bus companyOct 12 02:46
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scientesanyways, i learned the most from this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_P-e7vxpwOct 12 02:48
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Chinese Wife Finds Out She's NOT CHINESE! DNA TEST! - YouTubeOct 12 02:48
scientes". Vivi is Han Chinese by ID"Oct 12 02:48
scientesthey also have a Hooku system, where people are tied to the province they were bornOct 12 02:49
scientesXRevan86, I am talking about Chinese who are ethnically Russian in northern chinaOct 12 03:04
scientesthey were caught on the wrong side of the borderOct 12 03:04
MinceRthere's no right side of that border :>Oct 12 03:11
scientesManchuriaOct 12 03:11
scientesbut nobody want to touch saying thatOct 12 03:11
scientesoh the soviets invaded in 1945Oct 12 03:13
scientesalways wondered about thatOct 12 03:13
MinceR"The ROC government reports that over 95% of the population is Han Chinese, of which the majority includes descendants of early Han Chinese immigrants who arrived in Taiwan in large numbers starting in the 18th century. Alternatively, the ethnic groups of Taiwan may be roughly divided among the Hoklo (70%), the Hakka (14%), the Waishengren (14%), and indigenous peoples (2%)."Oct 12 03:14
scientesthe indigenous are polynesianOct 12 03:15
scientesand are in that YouTube videoOct 12 03:15
scientes> The Sino-Russian border dispute was resolved diplomatically only in 2004. Oct 12 03:16
scientesahh yesOct 12 03:16
scienteshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJluPG5Gt48Oct 12 03:17
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-🇲🇳 Mongolia - Minister for Foreign Affairs Addresses General Debate, 74th Session - YouTubeOct 12 03:17
scientesMongolia points out that they are the only state in the area without any unresolved political problemsOct 12 03:18
scientesoh wow, they have Mongolian translators at the UN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80gx-vDsoS4Oct 12 03:19
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-🇲🇳 Mongolia - Prime Minister Addresses General Debate, 73rd Session - YouTubeOct 12 03:19
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129184 [https://pleroma.site/objects/46116d1b-00f9-47c3-986d-f29700327499]Oct 12 05:34
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129185 [https://pleroma.site/objects/4942268b-6712-4b2b-843d-531d872fcb89]Oct 12 05:55
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schestowitzThis weekend, unless we do "openwashing reports" (I'm inclined against), it seems as though there will be more spare time for writing than I currently have necessitating in drafts, so topic suggestions (for issues to cover) would be appreciated. Oct 12 06:42
schestowitzRecently I reduced coverage of LF stuff as it seems a lot of people already know what LF really does and it can thus become repetitive. The RMS/GNU/FSF situation also gradually became "old news" and speaking against FSF is something RMS urged me against. So I'd rather say close to nothing. Keep tensions low.Oct 12 06:42
schestowitzUS patent issues haven't changed in a year. So everything we wrote in the past is still applicable.Oct 12 06:42
schestowitzI focused more on EPO in recent days (6 articles in 2 days), but I'm now low on material I am allowed to publish (sources).Oct 12 06:42
schestowitzSo, in short, if anyone out there has topic suggestions, I'm all ears. More capacity in the coming 2 days.Oct 12 06:42
schestowitz[23:22] <scientes> oh wow, Google can retroactively decide not to pay peopleOct 12 06:44
schestowitz[23:22] <scientes> in GSOCOct 12 06:44
schestowitz[23:22] <scientes> kinda points out what schestowitz said of GSOC beforeOct 12 06:44
schestowitzWhat I referred to was the Pocock situationOct 12 06:44
schestowitzIIRC, he said they had censored the mailing listsOct 12 06:44
schestowitzto avoid people questioning or criticising Google's motivesOct 12 06:45
schestowitz[23:20] <scientes> Googlian https://danielpocock.com/google-money-censorship-free-software/Oct 12 06:45
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Google, Money and Censorship in Free Software communities | DanielPocock.comOct 12 06:45
schestowitzOh, wait, it looks you you had seen that before you responded to what's there...Oct 12 06:45
schestowitzplease do give Daniel a platformOct 12 06:45
schestowitzhe wrote some important articlesOct 12 06:45
schestowitznow they try to 'cancel' himOct 12 06:46
schestowitzWe have a moral obligation to help him. He is NOT a bad person.Oct 12 06:46
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schestowitz2 thingsOct 12 07:19
schestowitz1. yesterday at the gym I read IRC logs. I then realised that the Needs Sunlight account lacks an image, hence broken image. It's programmed to take the surname and then look for an image file with that name. I've just corrected that and added an image. Works great.Oct 12 07:19
schestowitz2. You might want to read http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-111019.html#tOct%2011%2022:10:28 onwards. I want to support Daniel, but don't think that merits an article; Rianne too thinks links are enough as he already explains the situation reasonably well himself.Oct 12 07:19
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Friday, October 11, 2019Oct 12 07:19
schestowitzxOct 12 07:35
schestowitzhttps://www.techrepublic.com/article/open-source-hardware-the-problems-and-promise/Oct 12 07:35
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Open source hardware: The problems and promise - TechRepublicOct 12 07:35
schestowitz# asayOct 12 07:35
schestowitz=Oct 12 07:35
oiaohmReally people like to forgot early tv and radios use to come with circuit diagram include.Oct 12 07:44
oiaohmSo were open hardware.Oct 12 07:44
oiaohmSo we have regressed badly.Oct 12 07:44
schestowitzyupOct 12 07:50
schestowitzbut there's openwashingOct 12 07:50
schestowitzall those DC openwashing front groupsOct 12 07:50
schestowitzMS+FB with their 'open' DCOct 12 07:50
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schestowitzahhhhOct 12 08:10
schestowitzstupid clients with CloudflareOct 12 08:10
schestowitzI need to explain to them why CF sucksOct 12 08:10
schestowitzwill paste that in here in  a momentOct 12 08:10
schestowitzBypassing CloudFlare Visitors' Authenticity/Verification ChecksOct 12 08:21
schestowitz> Would you please try to simplify everything for me to use it on the proposal?Oct 12 08:21
schestowitz>  Oct 12 08:21
schestowitz> (In technical way. But easy to understand for people to read.)Oct 12 08:21
schestowitz> Oct 12 08:21
schestowitz> I need number of days this kind of project would take as well please. Oct 12 08:21
schestowitz> Oct 12 08:21
schestowitz> I would like you to answer these questions for me for this project.Oct 12 08:21
schestowitz> Oct 12 08:21
schestowitz> Give some background on the work that we have done with them.Oct 12 08:21
schestowitz> Oct 12 08:21
schestowitz> 1. Describe what the current need is.Oct 12 08:21
schestowitz> 2. List the requirements of the project.Oct 12 08:21
schestowitz> 3. Describe a summary of what we will do in the projectOct 12 08:21
schestowitz> 4. Describe point by point what exactly we will do in the project.Oct 12 08:21
schestowitz> 5. Give a time estimate.Oct 12 08:21
schestowitz> Oct 12 08:21
schestowitz> I will need this as soon as please. Oct 12 08:21
schestowitzI've attempted to reformulate this in simpler terms or with better clarity.Oct 12 08:21
schestowitz1. The client has a number of authors and administrators. They use a Django CMS-based Web site through which they publish and edit a large set of articles. They work from a large number of locations, usually over VPN (for safety and for privacy), and they access the site at pretty much any time of the day. So we cannot, for example, assume that access can be suited (restricted or made more lenient) based on location of author or time of the Oct 12 08:21
schestowitzday. Put another way, there's no simple criteria by which we can identify or tell apart ordinary visitors and editors. This is a design choice and it's actually preferable from their point of view.Oct 12 08:21
schestowitzThe site, however, has come under DDOS attacks. The goal of these attacks is to limit/prevent access to the site (because of its content) if not actively sabotage the site. There are several ways by which sabotage can be carried out, but that's not the key point here. The client wants high availability for the site, especially at times when high-profile stories are published and there are attempts to muzzle/punish/discredit.Oct 12 08:21
schestowitzThe client chose CloudFlare as a content distribution third party because CloudFlare has higher capacity (more servers), a wider range of servers in a lot of countries and CloudFlare can also carry out checks, block particular suspicious requests and maintain blacklists. The client paid CloudFlare for a premium package, I believe, seeing that additional capacity and features would be offered.Oct 12 08:21
schestowitzI myself am not a big fan of CloudFlare, but that's not the point. I'm happy to list the downsides and dangers associated with relying on CloudFlare as a CDN. I wrote a great deal about the subject since CloudFlare first emerged as a company (not so many years ago).Oct 12 08:21
schestowitzFor purely technical reasons CloudFlare serves the client's needs, but they already encounter one of the many issues/pitfalls.Oct 12 08:21
schestowitzThe notable issue is that site's staff is often treated as "suspicious", especially those who access the site a lot (to edit/publish). This means that before carrying out work or -- worse -- during that work (potentially while in the midst of changes being unsaved!) staff can be challenged by CloudFlare to prove they're legitimate users (in their own site!). As they work from VPNs at seemingly random times there's no easy way to 'tell' Oct 12 08:21
schestowitzCloudFlare to leave them alone and let them carry on with their work.Oct 12 08:21
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schestowitzOur objective is therefore to somehow exempt site staff from CloudFlare checks or from CloudFlare (altogether).Oct 12 08:21
schestowitz2. The project requires details -- however discreet -- about how the staff accesses the site and what the existing dangers are (e.g. government surveillance, Internet cafes collecting data). Unlike with previous clients, work isn't being carries out from some central office with a corporate VPN and a private network that's immutable. We can then decide whether we want a hidden gateway or a VPN-restricted gateway through which to access the Oct 12 08:21
schestowitzsite directly (not via CloudFlare). Making the decision upfront is important because once it's implemented making further changes can be another project.Oct 12 08:22
schestowitz3. If we set up a VPN-restricted site, then we need to register a new domain (or subdomain) and link that to the virtual machine/IP address of the back end they use (i.e. not CloudFlare), or alternatively configure CloudFlare to keep its hands off that domain and relay traffic to it directly. Otherwise, if the domain is a hidden (shadow) domain, we may only need to associate it with the IP address of the back end.Oct 12 08:22
schestowitz4. That depends on decisions made, as described in (2-3), but most likely: a) set up new domain. b) configure that domain for access. c) possibly configure the content management system. d) possibly configure CloudFlare to allow this different access mode. If VPN-based access is needed, then e) limit access to the new site based on some configurations (it's not clear if all staff uses the same VPN provider and has the same IP range; this can Oct 12 08:22
schestowitzbe tricky)Oct 12 08:22
schestowitz5. If something is done in a similar fashion to xxxxxxx and someone with that experience does this, then it's a possible one-day job, plus communicating to the client what to do (this can take hours). Explaining the needs above also takes hours. If something without experience does this, then there may be trials and errors. Then it can take several days. One way or another it can be accomplished. We did similar things in the past.Oct 12 08:22
schestowitz[xxxx for privacy]Oct 12 08:25
schestowitzclient's nameOct 12 08:25
schestowitzFUCK cloudflareOct 12 08:25
schestowitzsick of hemOct 12 08:25
schestowitzhowever, their f-ups give us clients at workOct 12 08:26
schestowitzhttps://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-outage/Oct 12 08:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-blog.cloudflare.com | Cloudflare outage caused by bad software deploy (updated)Oct 12 08:26
schestowitzhttps://blog.cloudflare.com/tag/outage/Oct 12 08:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-blog.cloudflare.com | Outage - The Cloudflare BlogOct 12 08:26
schestowitzhttps://www.datacenterdynamics.com/news/cloudflare-goes-down-outage-caused-network-performance-issues/Oct 12 08:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.datacenterdynamics.com | Cloudflare goes down, outage caused by "network performance issues" - DCDOct 12 08:26
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: FreeBSD 12.1-RC1 Now Available http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129188 [https://pleroma.site/objects/8f0f97b9-a240-42e8-a09b-6c58da9cd0e5]Oct 12 09:14
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schestowitzkaniini: I have a 'bug' reportOct 12 09:58
schestowitzfor pleroma UIOct 12 09:58
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: SanAndreasUnity, Legend of Keepers, X-Plane http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129190 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3b247788-cb03-4ac6-bd5e-f7bf09db2cf0]Oct 12 10:00
jagadeeshttps://neritam.wordpress.com/2019/10/12/free-software-is-not-an-ethical-issue-its-a-user-right-issue/Oct 12 10:04
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-neritam.wordpress.com | Free software is not an ethical issue, its a user right issue – neritamOct 12 10:04
schestowitzcheersOct 12 10:05
schestowitzjust sent you some trafficOct 12 10:07
jagadeestyOct 12 10:08
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Free software is not an ethical issue, its a user right issue http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129193 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f8a2aa63-4fe9-422d-abd4-c67f5c07558e]Oct 12 10:20
schestowitzjagadees: ^Oct 12 10:20
jagadeesty schestowitzOct 12 10:21
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Graphics: X.Org Server and Mesa http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129194 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f30ae1de-8f9e-4dc0-b7b6-3107bfaff329]Oct 12 10:24
jagadeesseems like my posts became visibleOct 12 10:29
jagadeestrolls started commeningOct 12 10:29
jagadeesi need to remove comments option.Oct 12 10:29
schestowitzthey try to discourage youOct 12 10:30
schestowitzignore themOct 12 10:30
jagadeesits ok for me.Oct 12 10:31
jagadeesits symbol of visibility.Oct 12 10:31
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 8 Ways Ubuntu Has Changed and Improved Linux http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129200 #ubuntu #gnu #linux #canonical [https://pleroma.site/objects/42fc3f82-6323-410b-b896-dc7fdd4779e1]Oct 12 11:56
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MinceRhttps://files.catbox.moe/7x48sm.jpgOct 12 15:06
schestowitzAye TeaOct 12 15:08
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scienteswhy does this page suck so much basically, if I set next/prev to nullptr and leave it alone it Oct 12 17:31
scienteshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZigguratOct 12 17:31
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Ziggurat - WikipediaOct 12 17:31
scientesit is so shortOct 12 17:31
scientesi want picturesOct 12 17:31
scientesArabic is even woorseOct 12 17:32
schestowitzwhat is this wikipedia thing?Oct 12 17:32
scienteshttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Tchogha_Zanbil.jpgOct 12 17:32
schestowitzis it a branch of wikileaks? ;-)Oct 12 17:32
scienteshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pyramid_of_CholulaOct 12 17:34
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Great Pyramid of Cholula - WikipediaOct 12 17:34
scientesahh coolOct 12 17:34
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XRevan86https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/745Oct 12 19:20
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Dev build 1.22.5rc1 "REJECTED" from Chrome Web Store · Issue #745 · uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues · GitHubOct 12 19:20
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schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/16223882Oct 12 20:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Maybe it'll be #billgates eventually hanging himself like #epstein He managed to get the media 'off his scent' for a month thanks to tabloid 'journalism' from his close mate Rupert Murdoch (Vice "media"), diverting to RMS/GNUOct 12 20:15
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scientesXRevan86, he is rightOct 12 20:51
scientesif you fight with a body with no due process you are the foolOct 12 20:52
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scientesand how did he comment after it was locked?Oct 12 20:52
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XRevan86> locked as resolved and *limited conversation to collaborators*Oct 12 20:59
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schestowitzhttp://keehuachee.blogspot.com/2014/08/old-photos-of-famous-celebrities-taken.htmlOct 12 21:35
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-keehuachee.blogspot.com | Kee Hua Chee Live!: OLD PHOTOS OF FAMOUS CELEBRITIES TAKEN IN THE GOOD OLD DAYS WHEN THEY WERE YOUNG, FRESH AND HOT AND YOU, LIKE ME, WERE STILL UNBORN PROBABLY...Oct 12 21:35
schestowitzhttp://www.dalsabzi.com/Books/Sindhi_surnames/rare_photographs_of_hyderabad_si.htmOct 12 21:36
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.dalsabzi.com | Dal Sabzi for Aatman : RARE PHOTOGRAPHS OF HYDERABAD SIND  The following photographOct 12 21:36
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oiaohm https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/collection/open-source-observatory-osor/news/iso-will-follow-late-2020  Microsoft get a mention as funding the work.  I still expect that MS Office will not be able to process ODF 1.3 correctly.Oct 12 21:57
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-joinup.ec.europa.eu | ISO will follow in late 2020 | JoinupOct 12 21:57
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MinceRcaptain obviousOct 12 21:58
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dyfetWhat I was just reading from the site is so relevant..."Free" vs "Open".  I do recall when Open Source was first introduced, and how it was meant as a "more business friendly" Freedom, but the freedom got forgotten.  Now we have "Open Core".  And I do not think "Windows Core" is an accident or coincidence.  No source, no freedom, no open, if we do not speak of freedom all that will remain is proprietary core @schestowitz Oct 12 22:02
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Chrome users gloriously freed from obviously treacherous and unsafe uBlock Origin http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129216 [https://pleroma.site/objects/73487363-9d73-4fc1-901e-ddcaaad876a8]Oct 12 22:04
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GNU: Release of GNU Binutils 2.33.1 and GNUFEST 2019 in San Cristóbal http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129217 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b285346b-9637-48aa-8473-acf9113da6e6]Oct 12 22:08
schestowitzI notices that too, dyfet, and pointed that outOct 12 22:08
dyfetokay, goodOct 12 22:11
oiaohmdyfet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-core_model  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MinWin  Open core name is not exactly new.    The order of events is kind of important Microsoft announced what they called server core in feb 2008  the term open core appears jun 2008.Oct 12 22:13
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Open-core model - WikipediaOct 12 22:13
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | MinWin - WikipediaOct 12 22:13
oiaohmdyfet: core bit I don't think is an accident/coincidence in open core.   The core in open core seams to be closely based on the Microsoft server core define.\Oct 12 22:15
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/1180862003478482945Oct 12 22:16
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: "Now, there are “open source” companies in various guises: some make their source code available but not some addit… https://t.co/ILytMXUtGBOct 12 22:16
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: "Now, there are “open source” companies in various guises: some make their source code available but not some addit… https://t.co/ILytMXUtGBOct 12 22:16
dyfetWell, I have been seeing Microsoft using core terminology a lot...yesOct 12 22:16
schestowitz""Now, there are “open source” companies in various guises: some make their source code available but not some additional proprietary elements that may be included. This is sometimes referred to as “open core” or “source open”.""Oct 12 22:16
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/1180740616877158400Oct 12 22:16
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: When do we get "LF Core" (for "open core" with the "Linux" trademark added for marketing value)? https://t.co/ok44vSrg3WOct 12 22:16
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> joindiaspora.com | When do we get "LF Core" (for "open core" with the "Linux" trademar...Oct 12 22:16
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/1132561730595434496Oct 12 22:17
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: #Technotification is also #openwashing for #microsoft and this time it's its #freebait (aka "open core") for… https://t.co/IBvu0u9zuDOct 12 22:17
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: #Technotification is also #openwashing for #microsoft and this time it's its #freebait (aka "open core") for… https://t.co/IBvu0u9zuDOct 12 22:17
schestowitz"#Technotification is also #openwashing for #microsoft and this time it's its #freebait (aka "open core") for #proprietarysoftware (with surveillance and Windows dependence) Visual Studio."Oct 12 22:17
oiaohmdyfet: what you call Windows Core now from is Windows Server Core in Microsoft own technical documentation the marketing department decide to drop the word server.Oct 12 22:18
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schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/1170031150703742976Oct 12 22:19
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: #mozilla wasting energy helping to prop up #microsoft universe of #proprietarysoftware with #openwashing the 'open… https://t.co/my76vezXiGOct 12 22:19
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: #mozilla wasting energy helping to prop up #microsoft universe of #proprietarysoftware with #openwashing the 'open… https://t.co/my76vezXiGOct 12 22:19
schestowitz"#mozilla wasting energy helping to prop up #microsoft universe of #proprietarysoftware with #openwashing the 'open core' way"Oct 12 22:19
oiaohmdyfet: Thinking Microsoft started the Core term usage in software its kind of expected they would use it a lot.Oct 12 22:21
dyfetDid they?Oct 12 22:21
oiaohmdyfet: they did feb 2008 they announce Windows Server Core fir the first time.    Open Core comes Jun 2008.Oct 12 22:22
oiaohmdyfet: they being Microsoft of course.Oct 12 22:22
dyfetAs for Mozilla...hmm...I had pondered why Microsoft seems to be embracing rust.Oct 12 22:22
dyfetHmm, that is a rather interesting timeline @oiaohmOct 12 22:23
oiaohmWindows server core replaced the old time Minwin and let Microsoft redefine term of Minwin to smaller subset of the core of windows.Oct 12 22:23
oiaohmYes Microsoft has loved redefining terms.Oct 12 22:23
schestowitzcore and kernel have similar meaningOct 12 22:23
schestowitzmaybe Microsoft wants to buy kernel.org tooOct 12 22:23
schestowitzlike it did githubOct 12 22:24
dyfetwhy buy if they can remote control thru lf?Oct 12 22:25
oiaohmLot of ways schestowitz is on the right track why Microsoft started using core.   WIndows you have the Kernel part then you have minwin around that then you have server core these are all steping out covering more parts.Oct 12 22:26
oiaohmMicrosoft had a techical naming problem and core was the closest useful word.Oct 12 22:26
MinceRhttps://ircz.de/p/19071718Oct 12 22:30
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post objectOct 12 22:30
oiaohmdyfet: attempting to remote by lf means Microsoft is in a pool with a lot of other equally rich parties fighting for control.Oct 12 22:30
dyfettrue, it seems like a shark feeding frenzyOct 12 22:31
oiaohmIt was fun watching WSL1 fail as this was basically a copy of the OS/2 and other windows NT subsystems method of undermining competition.Oct 12 22:33
MinceRdid that ever work?Oct 12 22:33
oiaohmMinceR: it worked to undermine people in the past for releasing applications on those other platforms.Oct 12 22:34
dyfetThey did once before have a "posix" subsystem and captive unix in NTOct 12 22:34
oiaohmdyfet: there was a OS/2 subsystem as well.Oct 12 22:34
MinceRdid those subsystems ever actually work?Oct 12 22:35
MinceRconsidering they made everything depend on the windows oneOct 12 22:35
oiaohmWhen your objective is to undermine they are not meant to work correctly.Oct 12 22:36
MinceR:>Oct 12 22:36
oiaohmIts a simple idea if person making application has thousands of upset windows users complaining that you software does not work due to subsystem support problem result will be you will release windows binaries to shut them up right????Oct 12 22:37
oiaohmThis did not work with Linux software.Oct 12 22:37
oiaohmWorked with OS/2 and lots of Unix software.Oct 12 22:37
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: DIY, modular MNT Reform Laptop gets spec bump as it inches toward reality http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129218 [https://pleroma.site/objects/114a26fc-eefe-43a7-a96f-ecc2fd3c12db]Oct 12 22:38
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psydroidwhat makes them think it will work now?Oct 12 22:41
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oiaohmpsydroid: that why it was fun to watch WSL1 particular thinking that  blackberry had already tried it and failed with a more compadible OS core than a NT one.Oct 12 23:00
oiaohmI don't know why they had any idea it would work ever.Oct 12 23:01
oiaohmIts not like windows applications have worked on Linux or freebsd with wine without kernel modifications either.Oct 12 23:01
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psydroidI know literally nothing about Windows, I don't even know how system calls work on it and which ones they are. I do know some POSIX stuff, so it is pretty obvious what I will use if I need to write some low-level codeOct 12 23:05
psydroidso now they have WSL1/WSL2 and people will be writing even more POSIX code because it now works on Windows tooOct 12 23:05
psydroidI don't see how that is going to benefit Microsoft in the long runOct 12 23:06
oiaohmBasiclaly its turned into a EEE backfire.Oct 12 23:06
oiaohmOnce you have large paying customers demarding feature you are kind of screwed .Oct 12 23:07
oiaohmSome of those large paying customers want like opengl x11 applications to work.Oct 12 23:08
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psydroidand this is why they have to promote WSL so people won't start using and demanding even more of those opengl x11 applications but will instead resort more to native Windows applications?Oct 12 23:14
psydroidat least that's what they hope for?Oct 12 23:14
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psydroidI think I tried to write Win32 and MFC applications once back in 1998, but I gave up shortly after because it just seemed like a terrible way to write softwareOct 12 23:15
oiaohmpsydroid: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/wsl2-faq  << its what they hoped for but its not exactly working out.Oct 12 23:17
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-docs.microsoft.com | WSL 2 Frequently Asked Questions | Microsoft DocsOct 12 23:17
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: We, Wall, we, Wall, Raku: Perl creator blesses new name for version 6 of text-wrangling lingo http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129219 [https://pleroma.site/objects/772338bd-8392-4d81-bdc9-6ef572a6c09f]Oct 12 23:19
scientesNobody supports WSLOct 12 23:21
scientesand for obvious reasons (they can't its not open source)Oct 12 23:21
oiaohmAlso the Linux kernel  has a lot of test suites so X program has a fault and someone just pulls out a testsuite and go see here Microsoft developers X is broken fix it.Oct 12 23:22
scientesbut they can't keep up its a losing gameOct 12 23:23
scientesif you are not leading in software you have already lostOct 12 23:23
oiaohmWSL2 was basically throw in the towell and decide to use the Linux kernel for real.Oct 12 23:23
scientesoh niceOct 12 23:24
scientesthe year of the linux desktopOct 12 23:24
oiaohmAnd of course as soon as they did that the result is blood in water and now those who were wanting kernel to work right now want stuff like full gpu access as well.Oct 12 23:24
scienteshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbEOct 12 23:24
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Developers - YouTubeOct 12 23:24
scientesVulkan here we comeOct 12 23:25
oiaohmTripple E plans can sometimes go belly up.Oct 12 23:25
scientesmore like triple D amirite?Oct 12 23:25
scienteswe all knew this would happenOct 12 23:27
scientesjust didn't expect it to take 20 yearsOct 12 23:27
scienteshttp://www.paulgraham.com/microsoft.htmlOct 12 23:28
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.paulgraham.com | Microsoft is DeadOct 12 23:28
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psydroidI've been pretty much Linux-only since 2002, I only learned about newer Windows versions as needed and nothing about programming apart from a brief stint learning C# and .NET in 2001Oct 12 23:42
psydroidit was pretty clear already back thenOct 12 23:43
scienteshave you written anything substansial?Oct 12 23:43
scientescause when I switched I immediately started using my freedoms, and filing bug reportsOct 12 23:46
scientesand when those bug reports were fixed it really impressed meOct 12 23:46
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security: SecTor, WhatsApp and Core Infrastructure Initiative (CII) http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129220 [https://pleroma.site/objects/edf50cd7-73f0-4ac3-b591-032f58ff9056]Oct 12 23:49
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129221 [https://pleroma.site/objects/6c305ef5-83ea-425d-8409-f61c71e16997]Oct 12 23:55
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Graphics: Red Hat, AMD and XWayland http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129222 [https://pleroma.site/objects/2ec58c4a-3f9d-4eb5-9a3c-559eacb9fc63]Oct 12 23:58
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129223 [https://pleroma.site/objects/4817e3f8-2974-4087-998d-ee6f9ef4bd61]Oct 12 23:59

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