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| scientes | well the "cast a shadow" was what i was getting at | Oct 12 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| XRevan86 | someone whose charisma will render all internal affairs issues invisible in its light. | Oct 12 00:00 |
| MinceR | ShadowCaster | Oct 12 00:01 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Yea, indeed. | Oct 12 00:01 |
| scientes | a Mohammed type of figure | Oct 12 00:04 |
| scientes | that is exactly what Mohammed's revelation is perfect at | Oct 12 00:04 |
| scientes | and why "personality cult" is banned on WeChat | Oct 12 00:05 |
| XRevan86 | The *fact* that the system is wired around Putin is getting more and more obvious each passing year. | Oct 12 00:06 |
| scientes | Bolivia is the same | Oct 12 00:06 |
| XRevan86 | while institutions built around him fall | Oct 12 00:07 |
| scientes | you mean "without him"? | Oct 12 00:07 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: No, I mean the Party, healthcare, education, economical policy | Oct 12 00:08 |
| scientes | oh, so more like Cuba | Oct 12 00:08 |
| scientes | where there is no dicipline | Oct 12 00:08 |
| XRevan86 | police, army, list goes on | Oct 12 00:08 |
| XRevan86 | Nothing has credibility, they just ride on Putin's back. | Oct 12 00:09 |
| scientes | ahhhh yes, I've heard this | Oct 12 00:09 |
| XRevan86 | The pension age lift worked like a wake-up call. It's not even the biggest "screw you" moment from the state. | Oct 12 00:15 |
| <--lqw has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) | Oct 12 00:15 | |
| XRevan86 | They sure didn't expect that reaction, even I haven't. | Oct 12 00:15 |
| XRevan86 | Russians suddenly realised that these tough times they were waiting over were actually the golden years. | Oct 12 00:16 |
| XRevan86 | and now they're over | Oct 12 00:16 |
| scientes | yes, they were golden years | Oct 12 00:17 |
| XRevan86 | The bright future isn't coming. Meanwhile, the levels of corruption are accelerating annually. | Oct 12 00:19 |
| scientes | yes | Oct 12 00:19 |
| XRevan86 | What I'm getting at is that Putin's back is not infinite. The bubble is going to burst even if Putin's immortal. | Oct 12 00:21 |
| scientes | the US bubble is much much bigger | Oct 12 00:22 |
| scientes | right now the Hilary-loyalists are in a bitter fight with the Trump-loyalists, over a burning Rome | Oct 12 00:22 |
| XRevan86 | Russia's regime is pretty simple by design. | Oct 12 00:22 |
| scientes | I just want to survive however, and Russians are better at that | Oct 12 00:23 |
| <--MrGreenFriend has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) | Oct 12 00:24 | |
| scientes | in the 90s there were still some more realistic people, but they have been peer pressured into the bubble | Oct 12 00:24 |
| scientes | or marginalized | Oct 12 00:24 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: It never ceases to amaze me how effective the US system is that throttling change. | Oct 12 00:24 |
| XRevan86 | * is at throttling | Oct 12 00:25 |
| scientes | "hope and change" means no hope and no change | Oct 12 00:25 |
| XRevan86 | It's a lot more efficient than the Russia's "no, go away or we'll find coke on you", because there's the illusion that democracy works. | Oct 12 00:26 |
| scientes | exactly | Oct 12 00:26 |
| scientes | when I started riding Latin American buses I learned what democracy was | Oct 12 00:26 |
| scientes | its a very democratic institution | Oct 12 00:26 |
| scientes | but I guess I don't really know | Oct 12 00:27 |
| XRevan86 | * that there's democracy at work | Oct 12 00:27 |
| scientes | in the US there is this massive difference in the world-view of the young and old | Oct 12 00:27 |
| scientes | they have managed to convince the old that the world is still as it was when they were young | Oct 12 00:27 |
| scientes | and they convince them to give really horrible advice to the yong, based on their delusions | Oct 12 00:28 |
| scientes | its a pyramid scheme | Oct 12 00:28 |
| scientes | but yes, if you tell people to go away, you actually give them a chance to survive on their own | Oct 12 00:29 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: In the end the real system is shielded from those pesky commoners anyway. | Oct 12 00:29 |
| scientes | rather than just ignoring them and lying to them, depending on the situation | Oct 12 00:29 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: It's not like those radical opinions will actually affect anything at large. | Oct 12 00:29 |
| scientes | but what if the system is smoke and mirrors | Oct 12 00:30 |
| scientes | or just ceases to exist | Oct 12 00:30 |
| scientes | then its far better if the commoners actually have ideas | Oct 12 00:30 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: I wasn't saying it as if it's a good thing | Oct 12 00:30 |
| XRevan86 | just that these fights don't matter | Oct 12 00:31 |
| XRevan86 | At least they won't be able to change the core essence of the government, the poor will stay poor, the rich will get richer, monopolies will unite, all that stuff. | Oct 12 00:33 |
| scientes | but what if the poor are not poor? | Oct 12 00:33 |
| scientes | and would rather eat at McDonalds on their credit card than become a dirty farmer? | Oct 12 00:33 |
| scientes | and if they will wait for help that will never come, even when they are starving to death? | Oct 12 00:34 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Then I promote them to "lower middle class" or something. | Oct 12 00:34 |
| scientes | except that is everyone in the US | Oct 12 00:34 |
| scientes | I lived for years without a job | Oct 12 00:34 |
| XRevan86 | not everyone, wink-wink | Oct 12 00:34 |
| scientes | well Mexico will annex it all | Oct 12 00:34 |
| scientes | re-annex it | Oct 12 00:34 |
| scientes | its hard to get people in South America to even imagine El Dorado in a sane way | Oct 12 00:35 |
| scientes | El Dorado with lots of drugs | Oct 12 00:38 |
| psydroid | if I had grown up in the US, the first thing I would do after graduating high school would be to find a way to leave the country | Oct 12 01:13 |
| *scientes should have done that | Oct 12 01:13 | |
| psydroid | I should have done it here too, but a few years ago I did it anyway | Oct 12 01:15 |
| scientes | yo mean from Ireland to Netherlands? | Oct 12 01:15 |
| psydroid | now I am just doing my studies and then I will leave again | Oct 12 01:16 |
| scientes | to? | Oct 12 01:16 |
| psydroid | I am from the Netherlands, first I went to Poland and from there to Ireland | Oct 12 01:16 |
| psydroid | and then I came back here to the Netherlands | Oct 12 01:17 |
| scientes | I got my Russian visa, but i messed up the paper-work and the start date is wrong | Oct 12 01:17 |
| psydroid | but I am not planning to stay here | Oct 12 01:17 |
| scientes | so i have to go back monday with fixed paperwork and see if they can fix it | Oct 12 01:17 |
| psydroid | but your flights are not booked yet? | Oct 12 01:18 |
| scientes | they are | Oct 12 01:18 |
| psydroid | the pyramid scheme is in place here too, so I don't see much of a future for myself | Oct 12 01:20 |
| scientes | so for the immediate future I don't have anywhere to take my cello | Oct 12 01:21 |
| psydroid | maybe I shouldn't even have gone to college and incurred debt that I can't pay off now, but simply left | Oct 12 01:21 |
| scientes | yep | Oct 12 01:21 |
| scientes | I avoided that nonsense | Oct 12 01:22 |
| scientes | and got a better education too | Oct 12 01:22 |
| psydroid | rather than empowering I find that it is limiting people | Oct 12 01:25 |
| scientes | thats the point | Oct 12 01:26 |
| scientes | I despise the european travelers I live with in these hostels | Oct 12 01:27 |
| psydroid | what do they do? | Oct 12 01:28 |
| XRevan86 | загнивают | Oct 12 01:28 |
| scientes | they are arrogant like americans | Oct 12 01:28 |
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| scientes | XRevan86, yep | Oct 12 01:29 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: I can't believe you got that reference %) | Oct 12 01:29 |
| scientes | i didn't | Oct 12 01:30 |
| XRevan86 | oh | Oct 12 01:30 |
| scientes | i used transducer | Oct 12 01:30 |
| scientes | rot | Oct 12 01:30 |
| XRevan86 | Well, it's a common saying, sincere and ironic: загнивающая Европа or загнивающий запад | Oct 12 01:30 |
| XRevan86 | Seems to be going way back | Oct 12 01:31 |
| scientes | hmmm, the northern europeans felt the same way about southern europe | Oct 12 01:31 |
| scientes | americans about europe, not really | Oct 12 01:31 |
| XRevan86 | * can be used sincerely and can be used ironically | Oct 12 01:33 |
| XRevan86 | Usually ironically in this exact form. | Oct 12 01:34 |
| XRevan86 | It's the "they will not last" thing again, except usually focussed on (rotten, duh) morality. | Oct 12 01:35 |
| scientes | oh, that is totally differnt | Oct 12 01:37 |
| scientes | I feel they are rotton | Oct 12 01:37 |
| scientes | rotten | Oct 12 01:37 |
| scientes | but not morality | Oct 12 01:37 |
| scientes | more this https://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2018/06/barbarians-rampage-through-europes.html | Oct 12 01:38 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-cluborlov.blogspot.com | ClubOrlov: Barbarians Rampage through Europe's Cemetery | Oct 12 01:38 | |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Notice the way the word is inflected, it's not just rotten (гнилой), it means an ongoing process of being covered in rot. | Oct 12 01:38 |
| scientes | "a sort of civilizational eunuch imprisoned in a four-star LGBTQ concentration camp." | Oct 12 01:39 |
| scientes | so many inflections | Oct 12 01:40 |
| scientes | well English has that one as a tense: rotting | Oct 12 01:40 |
| XRevan86 | гниющий | Oct 12 01:41 |
| XRevan86 | Oh well, the distinction is not that big | Oct 12 01:47 |
| samiamsam | и до нот спеак руссиан | Oct 12 01:49 |
| scientes | hehehe | Oct 12 01:49 |
| XRevan86 | What speck doughnut are you talking about? | Oct 12 01:50 |
| scientes | спеек, right? | Oct 12 01:50 |
| scientes | yes, XRevan86 pointed that out too | Oct 12 01:50 |
| samiamsam | it is just 'i do not speak russian' transliterated | Oct 12 01:51 |
| XRevan86 | samiamsam: I'm joking :) | Oct 12 01:51 |
| scientes | except the english vowels are not the pronounced vowels | Oct 12 01:51 |
| samiamsam | yes | Oct 12 01:51 |
| samiamsam | so спеек indeed | Oct 12 01:51 |
| XRevan86 | On that the pronunciation is lost in transliteration. | Oct 12 01:51 |
| XRevan86 | No, спик | Oct 12 01:51 |
| scientes | oh yeah that one is speak too | Oct 12 01:52 |
| scientes | *speck | Oct 12 01:52 |
| XRevan86 | Except with a long vowel | Oct 12 01:52 |
| XRevan86 | Or not, I'm not thinking straight | Oct 12 01:53 |
| XRevan86 | That would be "speyek" | Oct 12 01:53 |
| samiamsam | so spik | Oct 12 01:53 |
| samiamsam | but no | Oct 12 01:53 |
| XRevan86 | (with "p" palatalised) | Oct 12 01:53 |
| samiamsam | so how is long e written | Oct 12 01:53 |
| scientes | eh, palatization is still hard for me in spanish | Oct 12 01:54 |
| scientes | the trilled r is finially taking its full form | Oct 12 01:54 |
| XRevan86 | samiamsam: It's not really present in literary language, but in colloquial writing… I guess the same | Oct 12 01:55 |
| XRevan86 | With э there's no such problem, so "uh" just goes as "ээ" | Oct 12 01:56 |
| XRevan86 | Нууу, ээ, я тут это, пришёл туда, а там никого неееее быылоо… | Oct 12 01:58 |
| scientes | what!!?!?!?! | Oct 12 01:58 |
| scientes | ыы | Oct 12 01:58 |
| scientes | you can't put two of those back to back | Oct 12 01:59 |
| <--mmu_man has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | Oct 12 02:00 | |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Sure you can, it's expressive in this stupid example of mine | Oct 12 02:00 |
| XRevan86 | Whiny longer vowels in print | Oct 12 02:00 |
| scientes | oh ok | Oct 12 02:00 |
| scientes | like ooooooooooooooooooooooo | Oct 12 02:01 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: yeees, exaaactly | Oct 12 02:01 |
| XRevan86 | Also "ыы" is an alternative spelling for "гы" %) | Oct 12 02:01 |
| XRevan86 | Or any amount of ы's really | Oct 12 02:02 |
| XRevan86 | Not sure if I can translate that one %). | Oct 12 02:03 |
| psydroid | I have just read that article and it largely coincides with how I feel about Europe, but it seems so few of my European friends understand it | Oct 12 02:04 |
| XRevan86 | A "ha" but in an intentionally stupid way? | Oct 12 02:05 |
| psydroid | and I also know about the arrogance | Oct 12 02:05 |
| XRevan86 | The article gives me shivers. A hint at eugenics? | Oct 12 02:07 |
| psydroid | they think being rich makes them intrinsically better people | Oct 12 02:07 |
| XRevan86 | > Many of them would not be trainable in any case, coming as they are from populations bred for physical stamina and disease tolerance rather than intelligence. | Oct 12 02:07 |
| XRevan86 | This sentence would be highly controversial in Russia as well. | Oct 12 02:08 |
| scientes | well, it is meant to inflame passions, to reverse the rot | Oct 12 02:11 |
| scientes | and that mutually incompatible cultures should not live right next to each other | Oct 12 02:11 |
| scientes | also, NAFTA and the mexican+central american situation in the US was centrally planned | Oct 12 02:12 |
| scientes | the government seeing culture and society as a threat to its survivial | Oct 12 02:12 |
| scientes | now they repeated it with Europe | Oct 12 02:12 |
| scientes | *the pyramid scheme | Oct 12 02:13 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Saying some nations are smarter than other is a great way to achieve enlightenment. | Oct 12 02:16 |
| scientes | well some nations are more soverign than others | Oct 12 02:16 |
| scientes | I don't really see a problem with people saying that I am better that you | Oct 12 02:17 |
| scientes | as long as they are willing to have pride in that point | Oct 12 02:17 |
| scientes | its far more interesting that white guilt | Oct 12 02:17 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: The article blatantly says that there's something genetically wrong about people of some nations. | Oct 12 02:18 |
| XRevan86 | That's article 282 kind of stuff. | Oct 12 02:19 |
| scientes | it was pretty normal in the 18th and 19th centuries | Oct 12 02:20 |
| scientes | and it isn't quite eugenics | Oct 12 02:20 |
| scientes | eugenics and racism are quite different | Oct 12 02:20 |
| scientes | even is used for the same ends | Oct 12 02:21 |
| XRevan86 | Well, yea, eugenics is a methodology, I misused. | Oct 12 02:21 |
| scientes | I've been reading this guys stuff for years, and he has gotten less and less hesitant about the need for cultures to have sovereignty. | Oct 12 02:22 |
| scientes | In the US the invasion is a massive attack on people's morale | Oct 12 02:23 |
| scientes | and there are many many issues and concerns in that article that are being actively stifled | Oct 12 02:24 |
| XRevan86 | I'm not that interested in cultures, more in everyone's needs being met. After all, people heighten their cultural identity when they feel they are being left out. | Oct 12 02:24 |
| scientes | its quite similar to the Debian and FSF issue | Oct 12 02:24 |
| scientes | when the rule of law ONLY apply for the masses, and not for more organized groups, it is equilivent to no law | Oct 12 02:25 |
| scientes | and deteriorates to fascism | Oct 12 02:25 |
| scientes | or rights or whatever else you want to call it | Oct 12 02:25 |
| scientes | "respect the norms" as they say in South America | Oct 12 02:26 |
| XRevan86 | Also focus on culture forces cultures to keep their most nonsensical parts, as the more stupid, the more unique, i.e. identity-making. | Oct 12 02:26 |
| scientes | yes, agree on that point | Oct 12 02:26 |
| scientes | multi-ethnic societies have a tendency to explode | Oct 12 02:26 |
| scientes | and forming the existing nation-states in europe was very bloody | Oct 12 02:27 |
| scientes | and now they are just stiring the pot | Oct 12 02:27 |
| scientes | and making it MUCH more bloody | Oct 12 02:27 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: It's a… catalyst. | Oct 12 02:28 |
| scientes | they are creating a system that can't possible organize | Oct 12 02:28 |
| XRevan86 | There still has to be something seriously wrong to stirr the cultural differences. | Oct 12 02:29 |
| scientes | I talked to a Frenchman living in Berlin, and he says English is more common cause so few people know German | Oct 12 02:29 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: A friend of mine moved there. Says his knowledge of Swedish helps a lot. | Oct 12 02:30 |
| scientes | XRevan86, I think all the wars over whether the communion is the literal body of christ would disagree... | Oct 12 02:30 |
| XRevan86 | Works on his German very hard. And that is with decent English. | Oct 12 02:30 |
| MinceR | 12 032236 < scientes> I've been reading this guys stuff for years, and he has gotten less and less hesitant about the need for cultures to have sovereignty. | Oct 12 02:30 |
| MinceR | well, since my culture doesn't match anyone else's exactly, it's obvious that i should be sovereign. :) | Oct 12 02:31 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Let's focus on the modern world %). | Oct 12 02:31 |
| scientes | then......what about the current situation in Xinjang | Oct 12 02:32 |
| XRevan86 | I'm such a freak I should be sovereign over MinceR | Oct 12 02:32 |
| scientes | where one culture is selling the literal organs of another culture | Oct 12 02:32 |
| MinceR | lol | Oct 12 02:32 |
| scientes | MinceR, https://politics.theonion.com/everyone-in-middle-east-given-own-country-in-317-000-00-1819576713 | Oct 12 02:33 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-politics.theonion.com | Everyone In Middle East Given Own Country In 317,000,000-State Solution | Oct 12 02:33 | |
| MinceR | lol | Oct 12 02:33 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: That's a mono-cultural state. | Oct 12 02:34 |
| scientes | the uyghers felt they were chinese | Oct 12 02:35 |
| scientes | and then learned the hard way they werent | Oct 12 02:35 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Talk about "something seriously wrong" | Oct 12 02:35 |
| scientes | Russian is also a classified minority in China | Oct 12 02:36 |
| MinceR | not sure what The Onion meant by "Syrian resident" though | Oct 12 02:37 |
| scientes | even if they have all been offered re-location money by Russian Federation | Oct 12 02:37 |
| MinceR | even if the uygurs were chinese, they wouldn't be han chinese | Oct 12 02:37 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: I've heard success stories from Russians living in PRC | Oct 12 02:37 |
| MinceR | which is a fatal flaw :> | Oct 12 02:37 |
| scientes | MinceR, I had a Han chinese tell me "Han isn't a political term" | Oct 12 02:38 |
| scientes | hahahahahahahahahahahaha | Oct 12 02:38 |
| scientes | he had worked for the government too | Oct 12 02:38 |
| scientes | foreign relations | Oct 12 02:38 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Did he tell you that during work hours? | Oct 12 02:38 |
| scientes | no, he was now working for a US company | Oct 12 02:39 |
| scientes | I mean, China claims soverignity over all foreign Han | Oct 12 02:39 |
| scientes | foreign-living | Oct 12 02:40 |
| MinceR | scientes: did they also tell you the PRC was democratic? | Oct 12 02:40 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: So there's no escape? | Oct 12 02:40 |
| MinceR | manipulated living | Oct 12 02:40 |
| MinceR | sounds like the USA | Oct 12 02:40 |
| XRevan86 | I'm not very educated in these matters, is Taiwan Han? | Oct 12 02:41 |
| scientes | most of southern chinese is only recently "Han" | Oct 12 02:41 |
| scientes | and that is largely due to self-identification | Oct 12 02:41 |
| scientes | so Taiwan is part those natives, and part immigrants from the asia continent | Oct 12 02:42 |
| scientes | as it was only taken in the Qing dynasty | Oct 12 02:42 |
| scientes | well I guess the Han dynasty did get that far... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_dynasty | Oct 12 02:43 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Han dynasty - Wikipedia | Oct 12 02:43 | |
| scientes | but Han dynasty never took Taiwan | Oct 12 02:43 |
| XRevan86 | So it's all about circas? | Oct 12 02:44 |
| XRevan86 | How long ago a territory was acquired | Oct 12 02:44 |
| scientes | well its more that the turkish uyghers look quite different | Oct 12 02:45 |
| scientes | mongolians are also only barely tolerated, but at least they don't look at all european | Oct 12 02:45 |
| scientes | I actually met a mongolian-looking chinese here that said that he was talking to a bus driver and people thought he was a Peruano native working for the bus company | Oct 12 02:46 |
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| scientes | anyways, i learned the most from this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_P-e7vxpw | Oct 12 02:48 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Chinese Wife Finds Out She's NOT CHINESE! DNA TEST! - YouTube | Oct 12 02:48 | |
| scientes | ". Vivi is Han Chinese by ID" | Oct 12 02:48 |
| scientes | they also have a Hooku system, where people are tied to the province they were born | Oct 12 02:49 |
| scientes | XRevan86, I am talking about Chinese who are ethnically Russian in northern china | Oct 12 03:04 |
| scientes | they were caught on the wrong side of the border | Oct 12 03:04 |
| MinceR | there's no right side of that border :> | Oct 12 03:11 |
| scientes | Manchuria | Oct 12 03:11 |
| scientes | but nobody want to touch saying that | Oct 12 03:11 |
| scientes | oh the soviets invaded in 1945 | Oct 12 03:13 |
| scientes | always wondered about that | Oct 12 03:13 |
| MinceR | "The ROC government reports that over 95% of the population is Han Chinese, of which the majority includes descendants of early Han Chinese immigrants who arrived in Taiwan in large numbers starting in the 18th century. Alternatively, the ethnic groups of Taiwan may be roughly divided among the Hoklo (70%), the Hakka (14%), the Waishengren (14%), and indigenous peoples (2%)." | Oct 12 03:14 |
| scientes | the indigenous are polynesian | Oct 12 03:15 |
| scientes | and are in that YouTube video | Oct 12 03:15 |
| scientes | > The Sino-Russian border dispute was resolved diplomatically only in 2004. | Oct 12 03:16 |
| scientes | ahh yes | Oct 12 03:16 |
| scientes | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJluPG5Gt48 | Oct 12 03:17 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-🇲🇳 Mongolia - Minister for Foreign Affairs Addresses General Debate, 74th Session - YouTube | Oct 12 03:17 | |
| scientes | Mongolia points out that they are the only state in the area without any unresolved political problems | Oct 12 03:18 |
| scientes | oh wow, they have Mongolian translators at the UN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80gx-vDsoS4 | Oct 12 03:19 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-🇲🇳 Mongolia - Prime Minister Addresses General Debate, 73rd Session - YouTube | Oct 12 03:19 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129184 [https://pleroma.site/objects/46116d1b-00f9-47c3-986d-f29700327499] | Oct 12 05:34 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129185 [https://pleroma.site/objects/4942268b-6712-4b2b-843d-531d872fcb89] | Oct 12 05:55 | |
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| schestowitz | This weekend, unless we do "openwashing reports" (I'm inclined against), it seems as though there will be more spare time for writing than I currently have necessitating in drafts, so topic suggestions (for issues to cover) would be appreciated. | Oct 12 06:42 |
| schestowitz | Recently I reduced coverage of LF stuff as it seems a lot of people already know what LF really does and it can thus become repetitive. The RMS/GNU/FSF situation also gradually became "old news" and speaking against FSF is something RMS urged me against. So I'd rather say close to nothing. Keep tensions low. | Oct 12 06:42 |
| schestowitz | US patent issues haven't changed in a year. So everything we wrote in the past is still applicable. | Oct 12 06:42 |
| schestowitz | I focused more on EPO in recent days (6 articles in 2 days), but I'm now low on material I am allowed to publish (sources). | Oct 12 06:42 |
| schestowitz | So, in short, if anyone out there has topic suggestions, I'm all ears. More capacity in the coming 2 days. | Oct 12 06:42 |
| schestowitz | [23:22] <scientes> oh wow, Google can retroactively decide not to pay people | Oct 12 06:44 |
| schestowitz | [23:22] <scientes> in GSOC | Oct 12 06:44 |
| schestowitz | [23:22] <scientes> kinda points out what schestowitz said of GSOC before | Oct 12 06:44 |
| schestowitz | What I referred to was the Pocock situation | Oct 12 06:44 |
| schestowitz | IIRC, he said they had censored the mailing lists | Oct 12 06:44 |
| schestowitz | to avoid people questioning or criticising Google's motives | Oct 12 06:45 |
| schestowitz | [23:20] <scientes> Googlian https://danielpocock.com/google-money-censorship-free-software/ | Oct 12 06:45 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Google, Money and Censorship in Free Software communities | DanielPocock.com | Oct 12 06:45 | |
| schestowitz | Oh, wait, it looks you you had seen that before you responded to what's there... | Oct 12 06:45 |
| schestowitz | please do give Daniel a platform | Oct 12 06:45 |
| schestowitz | he wrote some important articles | Oct 12 06:45 |
| schestowitz | now they try to 'cancel' him | Oct 12 06:46 |
| schestowitz | We have a moral obligation to help him. He is NOT a bad person. | Oct 12 06:46 |
| <--MrGreenFriend has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Oct 12 06:55 | |
| schestowitz | 2 things | Oct 12 07:19 |
| schestowitz | 1. yesterday at the gym I read IRC logs. I then realised that the Needs Sunlight account lacks an image, hence broken image. It's programmed to take the surname and then look for an image file with that name. I've just corrected that and added an image. Works great. | Oct 12 07:19 |
| schestowitz | 2. You might want to read http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-111019.html#tOct%2011%2022:10:28 onwards. I want to support Daniel, but don't think that merits an article; Rianne too thinks links are enough as he already explains the situation reasonably well himself. | Oct 12 07:19 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Friday, October 11, 2019 | Oct 12 07:19 | |
| schestowitz | x | Oct 12 07:35 |
| schestowitz | https://www.techrepublic.com/article/open-source-hardware-the-problems-and-promise/ | Oct 12 07:35 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Open source hardware: The problems and promise - TechRepublic | Oct 12 07:35 | |
| schestowitz | # asay | Oct 12 07:35 |
| schestowitz | = | Oct 12 07:35 |
| oiaohm | Really people like to forgot early tv and radios use to come with circuit diagram include. | Oct 12 07:44 |
| oiaohm | So were open hardware. | Oct 12 07:44 |
| oiaohm | So we have regressed badly. | Oct 12 07:44 |
| schestowitz | yup | Oct 12 07:50 |
| schestowitz | but there's openwashing | Oct 12 07:50 |
| schestowitz | all those DC openwashing front groups | Oct 12 07:50 |
| schestowitz | MS+FB with their 'open' DC | Oct 12 07:50 |
| -->Firee (~Firee@unaffiliated/firee) has joined #techrights | Oct 12 07:56 | |
| schestowitz | ahhhh | Oct 12 08:10 |
| schestowitz | stupid clients with Cloudflare | Oct 12 08:10 |
| schestowitz | I need to explain to them why CF sucks | Oct 12 08:10 |
| schestowitz | will paste that in here in a moment | Oct 12 08:10 |
| schestowitz | Bypassing CloudFlare Visitors' Authenticity/Verification Checks | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | > Would you please try to simplify everything for me to use it on the proposal? | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | > | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | > (In technical way. But easy to understand for people to read.) | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | > | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | > I need number of days this kind of project would take as well please. | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | > | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | > I would like you to answer these questions for me for this project. | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | > | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | > Give some background on the work that we have done with them. | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | > | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | > 1. Describe what the current need is. | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | > 2. List the requirements of the project. | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | > 3. Describe a summary of what we will do in the project | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | > 4. Describe point by point what exactly we will do in the project. | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | > 5. Give a time estimate. | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | > | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | > I will need this as soon as please. | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | I've attempted to reformulate this in simpler terms or with better clarity. | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | 1. The client has a number of authors and administrators. They use a Django CMS-based Web site through which they publish and edit a large set of articles. They work from a large number of locations, usually over VPN (for safety and for privacy), and they access the site at pretty much any time of the day. So we cannot, for example, assume that access can be suited (restricted or made more lenient) based on location of author or time of the | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | day. Put another way, there's no simple criteria by which we can identify or tell apart ordinary visitors and editors. This is a design choice and it's actually preferable from their point of view. | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | The site, however, has come under DDOS attacks. The goal of these attacks is to limit/prevent access to the site (because of its content) if not actively sabotage the site. There are several ways by which sabotage can be carried out, but that's not the key point here. The client wants high availability for the site, especially at times when high-profile stories are published and there are attempts to muzzle/punish/discredit. | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | The client chose CloudFlare as a content distribution third party because CloudFlare has higher capacity (more servers), a wider range of servers in a lot of countries and CloudFlare can also carry out checks, block particular suspicious requests and maintain blacklists. The client paid CloudFlare for a premium package, I believe, seeing that additional capacity and features would be offered. | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | I myself am not a big fan of CloudFlare, but that's not the point. I'm happy to list the downsides and dangers associated with relying on CloudFlare as a CDN. I wrote a great deal about the subject since CloudFlare first emerged as a company (not so many years ago). | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | For purely technical reasons CloudFlare serves the client's needs, but they already encounter one of the many issues/pitfalls. | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | The notable issue is that site's staff is often treated as "suspicious", especially those who access the site a lot (to edit/publish). This means that before carrying out work or -- worse -- during that work (potentially while in the midst of changes being unsaved!) staff can be challenged by CloudFlare to prove they're legitimate users (in their own site!). As they work from VPNs at seemingly random times there's no easy way to 'tell' | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | CloudFlare to leave them alone and let them carry on with their work. | Oct 12 08:21 |
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| schestowitz | Our objective is therefore to somehow exempt site staff from CloudFlare checks or from CloudFlare (altogether). | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | 2. The project requires details -- however discreet -- about how the staff accesses the site and what the existing dangers are (e.g. government surveillance, Internet cafes collecting data). Unlike with previous clients, work isn't being carries out from some central office with a corporate VPN and a private network that's immutable. We can then decide whether we want a hidden gateway or a VPN-restricted gateway through which to access the | Oct 12 08:21 |
| schestowitz | site directly (not via CloudFlare). Making the decision upfront is important because once it's implemented making further changes can be another project. | Oct 12 08:22 |
| schestowitz | 3. If we set up a VPN-restricted site, then we need to register a new domain (or subdomain) and link that to the virtual machine/IP address of the back end they use (i.e. not CloudFlare), or alternatively configure CloudFlare to keep its hands off that domain and relay traffic to it directly. Otherwise, if the domain is a hidden (shadow) domain, we may only need to associate it with the IP address of the back end. | Oct 12 08:22 |
| schestowitz | 4. That depends on decisions made, as described in (2-3), but most likely: a) set up new domain. b) configure that domain for access. c) possibly configure the content management system. d) possibly configure CloudFlare to allow this different access mode. If VPN-based access is needed, then e) limit access to the new site based on some configurations (it's not clear if all staff uses the same VPN provider and has the same IP range; this can | Oct 12 08:22 |
| schestowitz | be tricky) | Oct 12 08:22 |
| schestowitz | 5. If something is done in a similar fashion to xxxxxxx and someone with that experience does this, then it's a possible one-day job, plus communicating to the client what to do (this can take hours). Explaining the needs above also takes hours. If something without experience does this, then there may be trials and errors. Then it can take several days. One way or another it can be accomplished. We did similar things in the past. | Oct 12 08:22 |
| schestowitz | [xxxx for privacy] | Oct 12 08:25 |
| schestowitz | client's name | Oct 12 08:25 |
| schestowitz | FUCK cloudflare | Oct 12 08:25 |
| schestowitz | sick of hem | Oct 12 08:25 |
| schestowitz | however, their f-ups give us clients at work | Oct 12 08:26 |
| schestowitz | https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-outage/ | Oct 12 08:26 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-blog.cloudflare.com | Cloudflare outage caused by bad software deploy (updated) | Oct 12 08:26 | |
| schestowitz | https://blog.cloudflare.com/tag/outage/ | Oct 12 08:26 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-blog.cloudflare.com | Outage - The Cloudflare Blog | Oct 12 08:26 | |
| schestowitz | https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/news/cloudflare-goes-down-outage-caused-network-performance-issues/ | Oct 12 08:26 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.datacenterdynamics.com | Cloudflare goes down, outage caused by "network performance issues" - DCD | Oct 12 08:26 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: FreeBSD 12.1-RC1 Now Available http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129188 [https://pleroma.site/objects/8f0f97b9-a240-42e8-a09b-6c58da9cd0e5] | Oct 12 09:14 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Hands-on video of the Librem 5 Linux phone shows improvements, but there is a lot of work left to do http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129186 [https://pleroma.site/objects/67b919c0-7c3d-4878-a163-ae08a0fcbaac] | Oct 12 09:15 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129187 [https://pleroma.site/objects/1902f331-1db9-43d4-9442-67b835f6c772] | Oct 12 09:16 | |
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| schestowitz | kaniini: I have a 'bug' report | Oct 12 09:58 |
| schestowitz | for pleroma UI | Oct 12 09:58 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: SanAndreasUnity, Legend of Keepers, X-Plane http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129190 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3b247788-cb03-4ac6-bd5e-f7bf09db2cf0] | Oct 12 10:00 | |
| jagadees | https://neritam.wordpress.com/2019/10/12/free-software-is-not-an-ethical-issue-its-a-user-right-issue/ | Oct 12 10:04 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-neritam.wordpress.com | Free software is not an ethical issue, its a user right issue – neritam | Oct 12 10:04 | |
| schestowitz | cheers | Oct 12 10:05 |
| schestowitz | just sent you some traffic | Oct 12 10:07 |
| jagadees | ty | Oct 12 10:08 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Events: Conferences, FOSDEM Community Devroom and Mozilla's "Developer Roadshow" http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129191 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b2692ff8-4b60-4bd4-aeca-cf35a0ed6945] | Oct 12 10:10 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Screencasts/Audiocasts/Shows: Lubuntu 19.10 overview, Linux Headlines, Noodlings and More http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129192 [https://pleroma.site/objects/8109e028-e3ae-46e6-96e7-c06ae629f624] | Oct 12 10:17 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Free software is not an ethical issue, its a user right issue http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129193 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f8a2aa63-4fe9-422d-abd4-c67f5c07558e] | Oct 12 10:20 | |
| schestowitz | jagadees: ^ | Oct 12 10:20 |
| jagadees | ty schestowitz | Oct 12 10:21 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Graphics: X.Org Server and Mesa http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129194 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f30ae1de-8f9e-4dc0-b7b6-3107bfaff329] | Oct 12 10:24 | |
| jagadees | seems like my posts became visible | Oct 12 10:29 |
| jagadees | trolls started commening | Oct 12 10:29 |
| jagadees | i need to remove comments option. | Oct 12 10:29 |
| schestowitz | they try to discourage you | Oct 12 10:30 |
| schestowitz | ignore them | Oct 12 10:30 |
| jagadees | its ok for me. | Oct 12 10:31 |
| jagadees | its symbol of visibility. | Oct 12 10:31 |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Kernel: Intel, IWD and VIRTME http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129197 [https://pleroma.site/objects/a1d50ee4-4627-4a03-b692-57e54ded7738] | Oct 12 11:37 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 4 Best Docker GUI tools to manage containers graphically http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129198 [https://pleroma.site/objects/e7179c41-8130-4731-8395-22a7c6d33a74] | Oct 12 11:47 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: SerenityOS: From zero to HTML in a year http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129199 [https://pleroma.site/objects/7b4f7223-df5d-4470-ae23-c6f71cc004a1] | Oct 12 11:53 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 8 Ways Ubuntu Has Changed and Improved Linux http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129200 #ubuntu #gnu #linux #canonical [https://pleroma.site/objects/42fc3f82-6323-410b-b896-dc7fdd4779e1] | Oct 12 11:56 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129201 [https://pleroma.site/objects/bd732260-6903-48f3-b51e-7a50005fba42] | Oct 12 12:08 | |
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| MinceR | https://files.catbox.moe/7x48sm.jpg | Oct 12 15:06 |
| schestowitz | Aye Tea | Oct 12 15:08 |
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| scientes | why does this page suck so much basically, if I set next/prev to nullptr and leave it alone it | Oct 12 17:31 |
| scientes | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziggurat | Oct 12 17:31 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Ziggurat - Wikipedia | Oct 12 17:31 | |
| scientes | it is so short | Oct 12 17:31 |
| scientes | i want pictures | Oct 12 17:31 |
| scientes | Arabic is even woorse | Oct 12 17:32 |
| schestowitz | what is this wikipedia thing? | Oct 12 17:32 |
| scientes | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Tchogha_Zanbil.jpg | Oct 12 17:32 |
| schestowitz | is it a branch of wikileaks? ;-) | Oct 12 17:32 |
| scientes | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pyramid_of_Cholula | Oct 12 17:34 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Great Pyramid of Cholula - Wikipedia | Oct 12 17:34 | |
| scientes | ahh cool | Oct 12 17:34 |
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| XRevan86 | https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/745 | Oct 12 19:20 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Dev build 1.22.5rc1 "REJECTED" from Chrome Web Store · Issue #745 · uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues · GitHub | Oct 12 19:20 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Test drive a Linux distro online before you hate it http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129203 [https://pleroma.site/objects/1beec341-fa88-490a-81bf-dbd027869150] | Oct 12 19:42 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #AutonomousLinux and the IT Utility http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129204 [https://pleroma.site/objects/cfd1a872-4cd0-4332-a941-faaaa3118d24] | Oct 12 19:43 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Overview to Ubuntu 19.10 Eoan Ermine http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129205 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3184e8c0-18eb-4054-9031-9568b820fd2d] | Oct 12 19:45 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129206 [https://pleroma.site/objects/e922cd57-afd6-4b5f-91e1-ffd4119e17ce] | Oct 12 19:46 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Sneak a Peek - Animated GIF recorder http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129207 [https://pleroma.site/objects/efd5934f-547f-4d6e-bc74-71477dcfb56d] | Oct 12 19:48 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The New York Times About the Real Epstein-Software Scandal (Nothing to Do With Stallman) http://techrights.org/2019/10/12/not-stallman-but-gates/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/23d2c15b-b53b-457b-832e-240fd8056d15] | Oct 12 20:15 | |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/16223882 | Oct 12 20:15 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Maybe it'll be #billgates eventually hanging himself like #epstein He managed to get the media 'off his scent' for a month thanks to tabloid 'journalism' from his close mate Rupert Murdoch (Vice "media"), diverting to RMS/GNU | Oct 12 20:15 | |
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| scientes | XRevan86, he is right | Oct 12 20:51 |
| scientes | if you fight with a body with no due process you are the fool | Oct 12 20:52 |
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| scientes | and how did he comment after it was locked? | Oct 12 20:52 |
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| XRevan86 | > locked as resolved and *limited conversation to collaborators* | Oct 12 20:59 |
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| schestowitz | http://keehuachee.blogspot.com/2014/08/old-photos-of-famous-celebrities-taken.html | Oct 12 21:35 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-keehuachee.blogspot.com | Kee Hua Chee Live!: OLD PHOTOS OF FAMOUS CELEBRITIES TAKEN IN THE GOOD OLD DAYS WHEN THEY WERE YOUNG, FRESH AND HOT AND YOU, LIKE ME, WERE STILL UNBORN PROBABLY... | Oct 12 21:35 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.dalsabzi.com/Books/Sindhi_surnames/rare_photographs_of_hyderabad_si.htm | Oct 12 21:36 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.dalsabzi.com | Dal Sabzi for Aatman : RARE PHOTOGRAPHS OF HYDERABAD SIND The following photograph | Oct 12 21:36 | |
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| oiaohm | https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/collection/open-source-observatory-osor/news/iso-will-follow-late-2020 Microsoft get a mention as funding the work. I still expect that MS Office will not be able to process ODF 1.3 correctly. | Oct 12 21:57 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-joinup.ec.europa.eu | ISO will follow in late 2020 | Joinup | Oct 12 21:57 | |
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| MinceR | captain obvious | Oct 12 21:58 |
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| dyfet | What I was just reading from the site is so relevant..."Free" vs "Open". I do recall when Open Source was first introduced, and how it was meant as a "more business friendly" Freedom, but the freedom got forgotten. Now we have "Open Core". And I do not think "Windows Core" is an accident or coincidence. No source, no freedom, no open, if we do not speak of freedom all that will remain is proprietary core @schestowitz | Oct 12 22:02 |
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| schestowitz | I notices that too, dyfet, and pointed that out | Oct 12 22:08 |
| dyfet | okay, good | Oct 12 22:11 |
| oiaohm | dyfet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-core_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MinWin Open core name is not exactly new. The order of events is kind of important Microsoft announced what they called server core in feb 2008 the term open core appears jun 2008. | Oct 12 22:13 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Open-core model - Wikipedia | Oct 12 22:13 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | MinWin - Wikipedia | Oct 12 22:13 | |
| oiaohm | dyfet: core bit I don't think is an accident/coincidence in open core. The core in open core seams to be closely based on the Microsoft server core define.\ | Oct 12 22:15 |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/1180862003478482945 | Oct 12 22:16 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: "Now, there are “open source” companies in various guises: some make their source code available but not some addit… https://t.co/ILytMXUtGB | Oct 12 22:16 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: "Now, there are “open source” companies in various guises: some make their source code available but not some addit… https://t.co/ILytMXUtGB | Oct 12 22:16 | |
| dyfet | Well, I have been seeing Microsoft using core terminology a lot...yes | Oct 12 22:16 |
| schestowitz | ""Now, there are “open source” companies in various guises: some make their source code available but not some additional proprietary elements that may be included. This is sometimes referred to as “open core” or “source open”."" | Oct 12 22:16 |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/1180740616877158400 | Oct 12 22:16 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: When do we get "LF Core" (for "open core" with the "Linux" trademark added for marketing value)? https://t.co/ok44vSrg3W | Oct 12 22:16 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> joindiaspora.com | When do we get "LF Core" (for "open core" with the "Linux" trademar... | Oct 12 22:16 | |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/1132561730595434496 | Oct 12 22:17 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: #Technotification is also #openwashing for #microsoft and this time it's its #freebait (aka "open core") for… https://t.co/IBvu0u9zuD | Oct 12 22:17 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: #Technotification is also #openwashing for #microsoft and this time it's its #freebait (aka "open core") for… https://t.co/IBvu0u9zuD | Oct 12 22:17 | |
| schestowitz | "#Technotification is also #openwashing for #microsoft and this time it's its #freebait (aka "open core") for #proprietarysoftware (with surveillance and Windows dependence) Visual Studio." | Oct 12 22:17 |
| oiaohm | dyfet: what you call Windows Core now from is Windows Server Core in Microsoft own technical documentation the marketing department decide to drop the word server. | Oct 12 22:18 |
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| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/1170031150703742976 | Oct 12 22:19 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: #mozilla wasting energy helping to prop up #microsoft universe of #proprietarysoftware with #openwashing the 'open… https://t.co/my76vezXiG | Oct 12 22:19 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: #mozilla wasting energy helping to prop up #microsoft universe of #proprietarysoftware with #openwashing the 'open… https://t.co/my76vezXiG | Oct 12 22:19 | |
| schestowitz | "#mozilla wasting energy helping to prop up #microsoft universe of #proprietarysoftware with #openwashing the 'open core' way" | Oct 12 22:19 |
| oiaohm | dyfet: Thinking Microsoft started the Core term usage in software its kind of expected they would use it a lot. | Oct 12 22:21 |
| dyfet | Did they? | Oct 12 22:21 |
| oiaohm | dyfet: they did feb 2008 they announce Windows Server Core fir the first time. Open Core comes Jun 2008. | Oct 12 22:22 |
| oiaohm | dyfet: they being Microsoft of course. | Oct 12 22:22 |
| dyfet | As for Mozilla...hmm...I had pondered why Microsoft seems to be embracing rust. | Oct 12 22:22 |
| dyfet | Hmm, that is a rather interesting timeline @oiaohm | Oct 12 22:23 |
| oiaohm | Windows server core replaced the old time Minwin and let Microsoft redefine term of Minwin to smaller subset of the core of windows. | Oct 12 22:23 |
| oiaohm | Yes Microsoft has loved redefining terms. | Oct 12 22:23 |
| schestowitz | core and kernel have similar meaning | Oct 12 22:23 |
| schestowitz | maybe Microsoft wants to buy kernel.org too | Oct 12 22:23 |
| schestowitz | like it did github | Oct 12 22:24 |
| dyfet | why buy if they can remote control thru lf? | Oct 12 22:25 |
| oiaohm | Lot of ways schestowitz is on the right track why Microsoft started using core. WIndows you have the Kernel part then you have minwin around that then you have server core these are all steping out covering more parts. | Oct 12 22:26 |
| oiaohm | Microsoft had a techical naming problem and core was the closest useful word. | Oct 12 22:26 |
| MinceR | https://ircz.de/p/19071718 | Oct 12 22:30 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object | Oct 12 22:30 | |
| oiaohm | dyfet: attempting to remote by lf means Microsoft is in a pool with a lot of other equally rich parties fighting for control. | Oct 12 22:30 |
| dyfet | true, it seems like a shark feeding frenzy | Oct 12 22:31 |
| oiaohm | It was fun watching WSL1 fail as this was basically a copy of the OS/2 and other windows NT subsystems method of undermining competition. | Oct 12 22:33 |
| MinceR | did that ever work? | Oct 12 22:33 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: it worked to undermine people in the past for releasing applications on those other platforms. | Oct 12 22:34 |
| dyfet | They did once before have a "posix" subsystem and captive unix in NT | Oct 12 22:34 |
| oiaohm | dyfet: there was a OS/2 subsystem as well. | Oct 12 22:34 |
| MinceR | did those subsystems ever actually work? | Oct 12 22:35 |
| MinceR | considering they made everything depend on the windows one | Oct 12 22:35 |
| oiaohm | When your objective is to undermine they are not meant to work correctly. | Oct 12 22:36 |
| MinceR | :> | Oct 12 22:36 |
| oiaohm | Its a simple idea if person making application has thousands of upset windows users complaining that you software does not work due to subsystem support problem result will be you will release windows binaries to shut them up right???? | Oct 12 22:37 |
| oiaohm | This did not work with Linux software. | Oct 12 22:37 |
| oiaohm | Worked with OS/2 and lots of Unix software. | Oct 12 22:37 |
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| psydroid | what makes them think it will work now? | Oct 12 22:41 |
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| oiaohm | psydroid: that why it was fun to watch WSL1 particular thinking that blackberry had already tried it and failed with a more compadible OS core than a NT one. | Oct 12 23:00 |
| oiaohm | I don't know why they had any idea it would work ever. | Oct 12 23:01 |
| oiaohm | Its not like windows applications have worked on Linux or freebsd with wine without kernel modifications either. | Oct 12 23:01 |
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| psydroid | I know literally nothing about Windows, I don't even know how system calls work on it and which ones they are. I do know some POSIX stuff, so it is pretty obvious what I will use if I need to write some low-level code | Oct 12 23:05 |
| psydroid | so now they have WSL1/WSL2 and people will be writing even more POSIX code because it now works on Windows too | Oct 12 23:05 |
| psydroid | I don't see how that is going to benefit Microsoft in the long run | Oct 12 23:06 |
| oiaohm | Basiclaly its turned into a EEE backfire. | Oct 12 23:06 |
| oiaohm | Once you have large paying customers demarding feature you are kind of screwed . | Oct 12 23:07 |
| oiaohm | Some of those large paying customers want like opengl x11 applications to work. | Oct 12 23:08 |
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| psydroid | and this is why they have to promote WSL so people won't start using and demanding even more of those opengl x11 applications but will instead resort more to native Windows applications? | Oct 12 23:14 |
| psydroid | at least that's what they hope for? | Oct 12 23:14 |
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| psydroid | I think I tried to write Win32 and MFC applications once back in 1998, but I gave up shortly after because it just seemed like a terrible way to write software | Oct 12 23:15 |
| oiaohm | psydroid: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/wsl2-faq << its what they hoped for but its not exactly working out. | Oct 12 23:17 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-docs.microsoft.com | WSL 2 Frequently Asked Questions | Microsoft Docs | Oct 12 23:17 | |
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| scientes | Nobody supports WSL | Oct 12 23:21 |
| scientes | and for obvious reasons (they can't its not open source) | Oct 12 23:21 |
| oiaohm | Also the Linux kernel has a lot of test suites so X program has a fault and someone just pulls out a testsuite and go see here Microsoft developers X is broken fix it. | Oct 12 23:22 |
| scientes | but they can't keep up its a losing game | Oct 12 23:23 |
| scientes | if you are not leading in software you have already lost | Oct 12 23:23 |
| oiaohm | WSL2 was basically throw in the towell and decide to use the Linux kernel for real. | Oct 12 23:23 |
| scientes | oh nice | Oct 12 23:24 |
| scientes | the year of the linux desktop | Oct 12 23:24 |
| oiaohm | And of course as soon as they did that the result is blood in water and now those who were wanting kernel to work right now want stuff like full gpu access as well. | Oct 12 23:24 |
| scientes | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE | Oct 12 23:24 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Developers - YouTube | Oct 12 23:24 | |
| scientes | Vulkan here we come | Oct 12 23:25 |
| oiaohm | Tripple E plans can sometimes go belly up. | Oct 12 23:25 |
| scientes | more like triple D amirite? | Oct 12 23:25 |
| scientes | we all knew this would happen | Oct 12 23:27 |
| scientes | just didn't expect it to take 20 years | Oct 12 23:27 |
| scientes | http://www.paulgraham.com/microsoft.html | Oct 12 23:28 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.paulgraham.com | Microsoft is Dead | Oct 12 23:28 | |
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| psydroid | I've been pretty much Linux-only since 2002, I only learned about newer Windows versions as needed and nothing about programming apart from a brief stint learning C# and .NET in 2001 | Oct 12 23:42 |
| psydroid | it was pretty clear already back then | Oct 12 23:43 |
| scientes | have you written anything substansial? | Oct 12 23:43 |
| scientes | cause when I switched I immediately started using my freedoms, and filing bug reports | Oct 12 23:46 |
| scientes | and when those bug reports were fixed it really impressed me | Oct 12 23:46 |
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