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IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Tuesday, November 17, 2020

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DaemonFC[m]They're worthless. The FSF and the cancel culture that got rid of Stallman can go fuck themselves.Nov 17 00:00
DaemonFC[m]But it was pretty bad under Stallman too.Nov 17 00:00
DaemonFC[m]He laid the groundwork for these idiots to take over and depose him.Nov 17 00:00
schestowitzDeb Icaza and de Raadt alsoNov 17 00:01
schestowitzI guess next up will be almost-retired Guido Van IcazaNov 17 00:01
MinceR:>Nov 17 00:02
schestowitzwith a virtual ceremony and clap-clap by BallmerNov 17 00:02
schestowitzAfter that.., Stormy PetersNov 17 00:02
DaemonFC[m]Steve Ballmer said that he was "absolutely correct" to call Linux and the GPL "Communism" at the time.Nov 17 00:02
schestowitzBecause two men in two years in a row is sexistNov 17 00:03
DaemonFC[m]But that "things have changed". We all know what that means.Nov 17 00:03
schestowitzafter Stormy Peters they can award a person who sports a penis againNov 17 00:03
schestowitzanything else would be "intolerant"Nov 17 00:03
DaemonFC[m]Windows has some sort of incompetent subsystem, and people on Reddit are pitching it as "Why would you ever run Linux on the hardware?".Nov 17 00:03
XRevan86DaemonFC[m]: What changed?Nov 17 00:03
schestowitzReddit is a trollfestNov 17 00:03
schestowitzwith Microsoft paid trollsNov 17 00:04
schestowitzPAIDNov 17 00:04
XRevan86Corporate involvement in the Linux Foundation?Nov 17 00:04
DaemonFC[m]WSL2 is still so bad that all you'd do is laugh at it. Nov 17 00:04
schestowitznot hearsayNov 17 00:04
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schestowitze.g. 17 00:04
schestowitz 17 00:04
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Microsoft Crime Persists: AstroTurfing a Regular Practice, Reddit Full of Paid Microsoft AstroTurfers | TechrightsNov 17 00:04
schestowitzfing firfox..Nov 17 00:04
schestowitz'helping' me by shortening URLsNov 17 00:04
DaemonFC[m]The takeover, the burrowing, the people on the inside like mjg59 who impose non-Free binaries to get their shit to work with Linux so that nobody tries to bypass it and use the computer freely.Nov 17 00:05
DaemonFC[m]He's a goddamned mole and they give the fucker an award for it.Nov 17 00:05
schestowitzDaemonFC[m]: 17 00:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Only About 150,000 People Worldwide Use WSL2 (Windows Subsystem for Linux) | TechrightsNov 17 00:05
psydroidI haven't seen WSL3 news yetNov 17 00:05
DaemonFC[m]The first thing the computer starts is a non-Free binary and the user isn't supposed to know that, but they give mjg59 an award.Nov 17 00:05
DaemonFC[m]Then from there, the kernel starts breaking itself because herp derp security from some imaginary threat.Nov 17 00:06
schestowitz 17 00:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | My Disagreement With the FSF Over UEFI ‘Secure Boot’ | TechrightsNov 17 00:06
schestowitzhe canceled RMS tooNov 17 00:06
DaemonFC[m]Don't worry, ZDNet will invent one!Nov 17 00:06
schestowitz"post-RMS FSF"Nov 17 00:06
schestowitzSo RoyWasRight about mjg59Nov 17 00:06
schestowitzeven back then..Nov 17 00:06
schestowitz;-)Nov 17 00:07
DaemonFC[m]Kernel Lockdown breaks a lot of basic functionality.Nov 17 00:07
schestowitzBTW, Intel was a top FSF sponsor that yearNov 17 00:07
DaemonFC[m]I mean the kind of stuff that Linus would start launching nuclear weapons over on mailing lists if it was those Open Source Security idiots.Nov 17 00:07
schestowitz 17 00:08
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Karma or Hubris? Is #TorvaldsWasRight a Thing Now? | TechrightsNov 17 00:08
schestowitz 17 00:08
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | [Meme] How to Hijack Linux and Free Software to Make Them Proprietary and Microsoft-Controlled | TechrightsNov 17 00:08
schestowitz 17 00:09
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | UEFI ‘Secure Boot’ is Just a Security Mess, as Techrights Predicted All Along, and FSF Should Not Have Given That Award | TechrightsNov 17 00:09
schestowitz 17 00:09
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | [Meme] It Was Only a Matter of Time All Along | TechrightsNov 17 00:09
schestowitzmjg59 in a few of these memesNov 17 00:09
DaemonFC[m] 17 00:10
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-System76 introduces laptops with open source BIOS coreboot | Opensource.comNov 17 00:10
schestowitzbut... we're only being proven more right ove rtimeNov 17 00:10
schestowitzabout him, aboyt uefiNov 17 00:10
schestowitzabout red hat and intelNov 17 00:10
schestowitztheir objectives only sometimes overlap oursNov 17 00:10
schestowitzbut often diverseNov 17 00:10
DaemonFC[m]More models are using this now, which fixes a huge litany of functional problems that he only excuses or refuses to acknowledge. Nov 17 00:10
schestowitzfreedom isn't profitableNov 17 00:10
schestowitzand that's where they disagree with usNov 17 00:10
DaemonFC[m]When this laptop bites it or I just get itchy, I'm just going to buy something with Coreboot.Nov 17 00:10
schestowitzso azure, msvs, github, uefi 'secure boot'Nov 17 00:10
schestowitzthey don't careNov 17 00:10
schestowitztheir board doesn't careNov 17 00:10
schestowitzmoney?Nov 17 00:10
schestowitzthen do it!Nov 17 00:11
DaemonFC[m]No, they long ago gave up caring about desktop Linux users, at all.Nov 17 00:11
*drdogcow has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)Nov 17 00:11
schestowitzwar means money, too 17 00:11
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Chairman of the Board of Red Hat Explains He Was Introduced to GNU/Linux When It Helped His Regime Change in Haiti | TechrightsNov 17 00:11
DaemonFC[m]These people don't even use it themselves.Nov 17 00:11
DaemonFC[m]It's all Windows and Macs.Nov 17 00:11
schestowitzyupNov 17 00:11
schestowitzbut LINUXNov 17 00:11
schestowitzgood brandNov 17 00:11
schestowitzlet's use itNov 17 00:11
schestowitzMix that in headlinesNov 17 00:11
schestowitzwith EdgeNov 17 00:11
schestowitzWith AzureNov 17 00:12
schestowitzWith Windows 10Nov 17 00:12
schestowitzWith MSVSNov 17 00:12
DaemonFC[m]Someone on Reddit asked if I thought all was lost and we should move to BSD operating systems or something.Nov 17 00:12
schestowitz"code"Nov 17 00:12
schestowitzLINUX something something... our proprietary productNov 17 00:12
DaemonFC[m]I said I certainly hoped not, but that running Linux had gotten harder, not easier, since Microsoft started to "love" it.Nov 17 00:12
schestowitzhow's >that< for a headline? :-)Nov 17 00:12
*drdogcow (~drunkendo@gateway/tor-sasl/drunkendogcowm/x-45413332) has joined #techrightsNov 17 00:13
DaemonFC[m]There's actually a term in Politics for what mjg59and his buddies are doing.Nov 17 00:13
DaemonFC[m]Ratfucking.Nov 17 00:14
DaemonFC[m]They're ratfucking Linux. Nov 17 00:14
schestowitzesr used that termNov 17 00:14
schestowitzfirst time I saw it tbhNov 17 00:15
schestowitzI smell a ....Nov 17 00:15
DaemonFC[m]It's much easier to damage and discredit from the inside.Nov 17 00:16
DaemonFC[m]Make it look like an accident.Nov 17 00:16
schestowitzyou don't have to tell meNov 17 00:16
schestowitzthey had a few runs at usNov 17 00:16
schestowitzmostly failed afaikNov 17 00:16
DaemonFC[m]mjg59actually said at one point it was the fault of "Linux kernel developers" (which ones?) for not implementing support for Intel's undocumented standards.Nov 17 00:17
schestowitzmjg59 came to this channel after I had challenged him for falsely, shamelessly associating us... with "rape"Nov 17 00:17
schestowitzwhich is a very serious and unbacked allegationsNov 17 00:17
DaemonFC[m]A year and a half in, they had never even publicly asked Intel for the documents, as far as I know.Nov 17 00:17
schestowitz*allegationNov 17 00:17
schestowitz[23:53] [Notice] -TechrightsBot-tr to #techrights- EFI and Linux: the future is here, and it's awful - Matthew Garrett - YouTubeNov 17 00:17
schestowitzThis is classic concern-trollingNov 17 00:18
DaemonFC[m]And a month after Lenovo was threatened with investigation and released the BIOS update, Intel came and documented it and dumped the code to make it work, out of the blue.Nov 17 00:18
DaemonFC[m]Goddamned miracle.Nov 17 00:18
schestowitzlike Lunduke's (Microsoft employee) "Linux Sucks"Nov 17 00:18
DaemonFC[m]Total coincidence.Nov 17 00:18
schestowitzYou declare a problemNov 17 00:18
schestowitzoverstates itNov 17 00:18
schestowitzthen say it's inevitableNov 17 00:18
schestowitz"the future is here,"Nov 17 00:18
schestowitzIt's hereNov 17 00:18
schestowitzwe lostNov 17 00:18
schestowitzdon't fightNov 17 00:18
schestowitzwe are hopelessNov 17 00:18
schestowitzmight as well "get on with the show"Nov 17 00:18
schestowitzlike all the people who told RMS he'd never pull it offNov 17 00:19
schestowitzbut he didNov 17 00:19
DaemonFC[m]schestowitz: Well, the issue here is that that landmine was defused after a year and a half of damage, but....Nov 17 00:19
schestowitzlearned helpelessnessNov 17 00:19
schestowitzinduced pessimismNov 17 00:19
schestowitzddefeatismNov 17 00:19
DaemonFC[m]They can always make more.Nov 17 00:19
schestowitzthey already didNov 17 00:19
schestowitzthey do all the timeNov 17 00:19
schestowitzsome success, some failNov 17 00:19
schestowitzto try to stall gnu/linxu domination in laptops/desktopsNov 17 00:19
DaemonFC[m]System76 shipping Coreboot instead means at least you don't have to fight them on their own turf, so I think people should probably start buying those.Nov 17 00:19
schestowitzas they already lost  DEVELOP~1 DEVELOP~1 DEVELOP~1DEVELOP~1vNov 17 00:20
schestowitzOOXML pushers were the sameNov 17 00:20
schestowitz"it's here"Nov 17 00:20
schestowitzwe need to adopt itNov 17 00:20
schestowitzsame for exFATNov 17 00:20
schestowitzshoved it right up Linux's arseNov 17 00:20
schestowitzTso opposesNov 17 00:21
psydroiddoesn't Red Hat "love" Linux and money more?Nov 17 00:21
schestowitzbut the friend of Garrett had said Tso is a rape somethingNov 17 00:21
schestowitzso who the heck cares with Tso thinks, right?Nov 17 00:21
schestowitzTorvalds shivering, recalling that harrowing month of "manners training"Nov 17 00:21
DaemonFC[m] 17 00:21
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Wisconsin recount would cost Trump campaign $7.9 million - CNNPoliticsNov 17 00:21
DaemonFC[m]This is just throwing good money after bad. No matter what, he loses.Nov 17 00:21
schestowitzone month he makes the world's most used kernel, the next he's in some classes after Zemlinsoft told him to be a "good boy"Nov 17 00:22
DaemonFC[m]He may as well just transfer it to his PAC instead and use that to sabotage Biden's presidency and prop up Republicans who will still carry out Trump's bidding.Nov 17 00:22
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schestowitzDay of rageNov 17 00:24
schestowitzTrump riling up the believersNov 17 00:24
schestowitzin youtube vids about "voter fraud"Nov 17 00:24
schestowitzvoter fraud does existNov 17 00:25
schestowitzbut not at those scalesNov 17 00:25
schestowitza few rogue ballots don't add up to thousands or millions without it going above the radarNov 17 00:26
psydroid 17 00:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Intel’s Disruption is Now Complete | by James Allworth | Nov, 2020 | MediumNov 17 00:26
schestowitzIntel put me on conference callNov 17 00:27
psydroidno more Intel->no more UEFI->ultimate joyNov 17 00:27
schestowitzwith their managersNov 17 00:27
schestowitzbecause of my criticism of UEFI 'secure boot'Nov 17 00:27
schestowitzthey did not convince meNov 17 00:27
schestowitzI have the thing recorded stillNov 17 00:27
schestowitzon external driveNov 17 00:27
schestowitzif I ever wanted to dig that upNov 17 00:27
schestowitzI wrote about it back thenNov 17 00:28
schestowitzbut never released the audioNov 17 00:28
schestowitziirc, it was cut into many bitsNov 17 00:28
schestowitzI used some freesw to record it Nov 17 00:28
schestowitzmaybe audacityNov 17 00:28
schestowitzand then it crashed or somethingNov 17 00:28
schestowitzbut there were buffer failed still at handNov 17 00:28
schestowitzseaming them together would take agesNov 17 00:29
schestowitzI literally put a microphone next to a landline headsetNov 17 00:29
schestowitzso the quality of the audio wasn't good either and it's hard to hear meNov 17 00:29
schestowitzThey only did this to one more personNov 17 00:30
schestowitzJamie from ZDNetNov 17 00:30
schestowitztheir only writer who actuallyt supported LinuxNov 17 00:30
schestowitzbefore they got rid of him, because of course...Nov 17 00:30
schestowitzhe kept complaining there about uefiNov 17 00:30
schestowitzit was getting in his way every time he was testign distrosNov 17 00:31
schestowitzso intel wanted to squash him tooNov 17 00:31
schestowitzI think with him they succeeded at getting a puff pieceNov 17 00:31
schestowitzand then he vanished from zdnetNov 17 00:31
schestowitzmaybe not the same yearNov 17 00:31
psydroidIntel tried to hire me twice, but I don't want to work there because they are hostile towards their clients and even their own employeesNov 17 00:32
schestowitzlarry dignan, zdnet editor, fired more like himNov 17 00:32
schestowitzpaula rooneyNov 17 00:32
schestowitzdana blankenhordNov 17 00:32
schestowitzThey kept sjvnNov 17 00:32
schestowitz"call me crazy" sjvnNov 17 00:32
schestowitzwho says "call me crazy" Nov 17 00:32
psydroidI remember them from the days when I did read ZDNetNov 17 00:33
schestowitzwhen he says Windows will be LinuxNov 17 00:33
schestowitzand they censor his articlesNov 17 00:33
schestowitzwhen he writes 'too' negatively about MicrosoftNov 17 00:33
schestowitz 17 00:33
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | One Year Later Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols’ Libel Against Richard Stallman Remains Online and Uncorrected at ZDNet | TechrightsNov 17 00:33
schestowitzwife and I call him "VonVon"Nov 17 00:34
schestowitztotal idiot in her viewsNov 17 00:34
schestowitzand our associates really hate himNov 17 00:34
schestowitzmore than me... I don't hate him at all... I just totally lost respect for himNov 17 00:34
schestowitzhe hangs around with LF SPAMnil nowNov 17 00:34
schestowitzand the rest of LF gangNov 17 00:34
schestowitzdoes PR for themNov 17 00:34
psydroidisn't he really old now?Nov 17 00:35
schestowitzwould be late 60s, I thinkNov 17 00:35
schestowitzthe beard makes him look olderNov 17 00:35
schestowitz 17 00:36
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Corporate Disciplining Bad for One’s Health | TechrightsNov 17 00:36
schestowitzthis is VonVon (SJVN) and LinusNov 17 00:36
schestowitzthey look almost the same ageNov 17 00:36
schestowitzTorvalds must have lives on pringles on something since they punished him... pringles and CokweNov 17 00:37
schestowitzCokeNov 17 00:37
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Programming Leftovers • 🅃🅄🅇 🄼🄰🄲🄷🄸🄽🄴🅂 ☞ []Nov 17 00:38
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GNU and OpenStack • 🅃🅄🅇 🄼🄰🄲🄷🄸🄽🄴🅂 ☞ []Nov 17 00:40
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Open or Freedom-Respecting Hardware • 🅃🅄🅇 🄼🄰🄲🄷🄸🄽🄴🅂 ☞ []Nov 17 00:42
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today’s 𝐓𝐮𝐱 𝐌𝐚𝐜𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐞𝐬 Leftovers • 🅃🅄🅇 🄼🄰🄲🄷🄸🄽🄴🅂 ☞ []Nov 17 00:46
DaemonFC[m]Transferring my current music library to my phone.Nov 17 00:46
DaemonFC[m]Takes forever because it's WavPack files.Nov 17 00:47
mjg59DaemonFC[m]: I've repeatedly asked Intel to document their AHCI/RAID passthrough modeNov 17 00:47
DaemonFC[m]But I found that backing out all five hundred and eleventy bazillion of Intel's fuck-up mitigations sped up the encoder for WavPack by about 3 warp factors. Nov 17 00:47
DaemonFC[m]:/Nov 17 00:47
mjg59"The real problem here is that Intel do very little to ensure that free operating systems work well on their consumer hardware - we still have no information from Intel on how to configure systems to ensure good power management, we have no support for storage devices in "RAID" mode and we have no indication that this is going to get better in future. If Intel had provided that support, this issue would Nov 17 00:47
mjg59never have occurred. Rather than be angry at Lenovo, let's put pressure on Intel to provide support for their hardware."Nov 17 00:48
DaemonFC[m]So making another pass over them has resulted in....some space savings. Which are always nice. Nov 17 00:48
DaemonFC[m]mjg59: But you fail to address the meat of the subject here.Nov 17 00:48
DaemonFC[m]Rather than focusing on Intel's stupid fucking moronic "RAID" mode, focus on the facts.Nov 17 00:49
DaemonFC[m]It's pointless, Lenovo is the one that hid AHCI, and then they wrote yet more code to flip it back every reboot even if you used EFI shell to change it anyway.Nov 17 00:49
DaemonFC[m]Then the separate fact that it adds nothing to the user experience at all and if your argument is that Windows 10 starts losing its shit and blue screening more than it normally does if some idiot gets in there and fucks with the shit, then wouldn't hiding it in the firmware menu be enough so that only a person who would know why they wanted to change the setting could do it?Nov 17 00:50
DaemonFC[m]Therefore, why the EXTRA code?Nov 17 00:50
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 17/11/2020: Six New Debian Developers and Orange Pi’s $16 Zero2 • 🆃🅴🅲🅷🆁🅸🅶🅷🆃🆂 ☞ []Nov 17 00:50
DaemonFC[m]Raw device access is the only thing that makes sense, and even Intel's engineers admitted it at one point, although they didn't mention that it was such a bad idea, Lenovo made it the law. Nov 17 00:52
DaemonFC[m]That's what I usually like saying about the government. "It was such a bad idea that they made it the law.".Nov 17 00:53
MinceRintel did plenty dick moves on their ownNov 17 00:53
DaemonFC[m]You know, the kind of stupidity that nobody would have cooperated with voluntarily gets made so you don't have a choice.Nov 17 00:53
DaemonFC[m]They did. It's a team effort.Nov 17 00:54
DaemonFC[m]The usual suspects all had a hand in it, and all of this handwringing to try to avoid blaming the whole bunch of them is very interesting.Nov 17 00:54
DaemonFC[m]But mostly this is Lenovo and Microsoft's fault and it was a corrupt bargain.Nov 17 00:55
DaemonFC[m]They entered into it in exchange for vendor rebate kickbacks for locking the customer into Windows once they realized how bad Windows 10 was.Nov 17 00:55
DaemonFC[m]And mjg59 is completely silent there.Nov 17 00:55
DaemonFC[m]Then, like Windows 10 S Mode, you have to pass it so you can find out what's in it. It's meant as an ambush after the user already has it at home and unboxed.Nov 17 00:56
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today in #Techrights • 🅃🅄🅇 🄼🄰🄲🄷🄸🄽🄴🅂 ☞ []Nov 17 00:56
psydroidmy uncle returned a Lenovo laptop over the "RAID" (Intel RST) mode last yearNov 17 00:57
DaemonFC[m]Then they probably just groan and use Windows 10 because resistance is difficult and there's not too many "Don't fuck with me, fellas!" people, like me, out there.Nov 17 00:57
DaemonFC[m]psydroid: The BIOS update took care of the affected systems, and you don't even have to use that now.Nov 17 00:57
DaemonFC[m]Linux should just work.Nov 17 00:57
DaemonFC[m]But I never put it back because it adds pointless complexity and potential bugs to the situation.Nov 17 00:58
DaemonFC[m]The correct answer is most often the simpler one.Nov 17 00:58
DaemonFC[m]mjg59: takes advantage of that by asserting that Intel and Lenovo are just a bunch of total fucking retards, when they've proven over and over again that, yeah, they're that, but they're vicious and scheming too!Nov 17 00:59
DaemonFC[m]Like their pals over at Apple and Microsoft.Nov 17 00:59
DaemonFC[m]Their "best people" are always the lawyers, never the engineers.Nov 17 01:00
DaemonFC[m]Intel has had some spectacularly bad products before but nothing even holds a candle to their recent stuff.Nov 17 01:00
DaemonFC[m]So they use patents and lawyers and dirty tricks and vendor kickbacks, just like Microsoft.Nov 17 01:01
DaemonFC[m]In fact, they even threatened Microsoft.Nov 17 01:01
psydroidI just listen to that video he posted and even though I didn't really pay attention, it sounded more like beating around the bush avoiding the real issue of why UEFI was needed in the first place and then finding workarounds for the buggy mess it isNov 17 01:01
DaemonFC[m]Microsoft's SEC report that I showed schestowitz even admitted, although in a roundabout way, that money comes in from vendors, and a lot of it just goes right back out as bribes to put things in "S Mode".Nov 17 01:02
DaemonFC[m]Their thinking is that users won't try to bust out of the confinement and then they can have developers pay a 30% tax to use the Windows store, which rebounds on the consumer anyway.Nov 17 01:02
DaemonFC[m]They see "giving away copies" of Windows as long as it defaults to only running apps in the store as an "investment" in fleecing the consumer even worse later.Nov 17 01:03
MinceR> why UEFI was neededNov 17 01:04
MinceRpeople were realizing that there were non-shit OSes available for PCsNov 17 01:04
MinceRso the redmond mafia needed a way of locking PCs into the uhmerican government-approved duopoly of crapOS and BackdoorsNov 17 01:05
DaemonFC[m]Then, to avoid being sued or bad PR, they let you turn it into a real copy of Windows 10 Home, but not before trying to scare the bejesus out of you. Suddenly, the "most secure Windows ever" will become riddled with malware and corrupt settings and all of the things we've come to expect.Nov 17 01:05
DaemonFC[m]Because it's really that fragile.Nov 17 01:05
MinceR"the most secure windows ever", now with built-in keyloggerNov 17 01:06
MinceRthis industry disgusts meNov 17 01:06
DaemonFC[m]I just got an unexpected package.Nov 17 01:06
psydroidI would say that those "users" moved to Android and iOS, as they were never true computer users in the first placeNov 17 01:07
DaemonFC[m]It's addressed to my apartment but not to me.Nov 17 01:07
DaemonFC[m]It says "IRHYTHM STOCK -ICC QUARANTINE".Nov 17 01:07
mjg59Ok well at least we're at the point where you're no longer accusing me of not criticising IntelNov 17 01:25
mjg59Or publicly asking for them to release docsNov 17 01:25
mjg59There's a clear explanation for how this could happen without maliciousness on Lenovo's partNov 17 01:26
mjg59The explanation is simply that they didn't careNov 17 01:26
mjg59They made choices that made it more difficult for users to get the system into an unsupported state that could potentially cause hardware damageNov 17 01:26
MinceRif that was the goal, they could have accomplished it much more simply by selling customers slabs of stone instead of an alleged PCNov 17 01:27
DaemonFC[m]The only distribution that was stupid enough to potentially cause an adverse reaction due to another one of their uEFI bugs was Ubuntu with the Intel-SPI driver they built from staging.Nov 17 01:27
mjg59And if Intel had done their fucking job and documented how the hardware works then there'd have been a driver and Linux would have worked fineNov 17 01:27
DaemonFC[m]They don't care if it has bugs. Nobody at Microsoft, Intel, or Lenovo cares. By the time you figure it out, you're home with it, and they still assume they're going to get you again anyway.Nov 17 01:28
DaemonFC[m]It takes a long time to get out of a mindset where you're just going to keep putting one over on people because they have no options. Nov 17 01:28
DaemonFC[m]So I agree to that much, but this went above and beyond not wanting to field support calls because some idiot found their way into BIOS Setup.Nov 17 01:28
mjg59Like how Intel's refusal to document DPTF means that a large number of laptops run slower under Linux than WindowsNov 17 01:28
DaemonFC[m]Nobody is going to open EFI shell and tell it to put the storage controller in a different mode by accident.Nov 17 01:29
DaemonFC[m]Even if they could conceivably hit a key and go "Oh what's this? Maybe I'll just play around with stuff at random.".Nov 17 01:29
DaemonFC[m]So why the extra code?Nov 17 01:29
mjg59Because if you just remove the option then you still need to write something that sets the appropriate mode in the first placeNov 17 01:30
mjg59And the easiest thing to do there is just hardware it in the init codeNov 17 01:30
mjg59Rather than figure out how to set the default properlyNov 17 01:30
mjg59Firmware is not written with great care and attentionNov 17 01:31
DaemonFC[m]Or you could just assume that it's where you put it and if the user goes to EFI shell and says different, they must know why they're doing that. Nov 17 01:31
mjg59You can't simultaneously complain about uefi being poorly implemented and then cite a poor implementation as evidence of conspiracyNov 17 01:31
MinceR"Firmware is not written with great care and attention" -- that should be hewlett-packard's mottoNov 17 01:31
mjg59Why would they even think about a user doing that?Nov 17 01:31
MinceRUEFI itself is a result of conspiracyNov 17 01:32
MinceRit involved at least intel and microshitNov 17 01:32
DaemonFC[m]Because about 5% will take the laptop home and try to put Linux on it somehow, statistically.Nov 17 01:32
mjg59Firmware developers do not consider thatNov 17 01:32
DaemonFC[m]And then they'll end up with returns or what happened when I opened one up and went "Nope, don't need Windows 10. Nope nope nope.".Nov 17 01:32
DaemonFC[m]1 in 20 returning your product or yelling and swearing at you is not a blip.Nov 17 01:33
DaemonFC[m]You need to anticipate that, if nothing else.Nov 17 01:33
DaemonFC[m]And I think they learned something here.Nov 17 01:33
DaemonFC[m]I haven't heard about any new Lenovo PCs that don't let you install Linux. Maybe if they're REALLY new some distributions won't have a driver for something quite yet.Nov 17 01:34
DaemonFC[m]But no hard blocks on it.Nov 17 01:34
mjg59The difference between "Our assumptions about support tradeoffs didn't match reality" and "We conspired with Microsoft to screw over Linux" is meaningfulNov 17 01:34
mjg59And, again, if Intel had done their job then Linux would have worked fineNov 17 01:34
mjg59Because the failure here was that Linux didn't have a driver for itNov 17 01:35
DaemonFC[m]If they shipped a damned laptop that wasn't full tilt crazy then they'd have never heard from any of their customers about it in the first place.Nov 17 01:35
mjg59Despite hardware having shipped in this mode for years previouslyNov 17 01:35
DaemonFC[m]They certainly wouldn't have had to start banning hundreds of people on their forums. :)Nov 17 01:35
MinceRnot forcing this bullshit "RAID" mode would have worked tooNov 17 01:35
mjg59Yeah, it's clear that not forcing that mode was a problemNov 17 01:35
mjg59But there's a reason that mode existsNov 17 01:36
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, because Windows has a storage driver that doesn't load the power policy.Nov 17 01:36
MinceRit exists because the way Backdoors manages drivers is ass-backwardsNov 17 01:36
DaemonFC[m]Sounds like a don't ask, don't tell to me.Nov 17 01:36
MinceRso they had to lie to Backdoors that it was a different device so they could get it to load a custom driverNov 17 01:36
DaemonFC[m]If Microsoft wanted to know how to do this, Intel would tell them.Nov 17 01:36
MinceRit's a horrible mess, not engineeringNov 17 01:36
mjg59Right, if you ship in AHCI mode you have no way to force the use of the Intel driver over the generic driverNov 17 01:36
mjg59If Intel would document their power management policy then even the generic AHCI driver in Windows could do the right thing hereNov 17 01:37
MinceRthat's hilarious if trueNov 17 01:37
MinceRbecause fixing that would have been a lot simpler and easier than this unholy messNov 17 01:37
DaemonFC[m]There was also no way to install Windows 10 from a clean ISO, remember?Nov 17 01:37
DaemonFC[m]So the only way to fix it if something fucked up was hope the built in recovery tools that never work, work.Nov 17 01:37
mjg59There's a genuine reason why laptops that can never have more than one disk in them ship in this mode by defaultNov 17 01:37
mjg59The XPS13 does, if you don't have the Linux SKUNov 17 01:38
mjg59Well, did until they went nvmeNov 17 01:38
DaemonFC[m]Linux would still work on the others though, afaik.Nov 17 01:38
mjg59You had to change the optionNov 17 01:38
mjg59It wouldn't out of the boxNov 17 01:38
DaemonFC[m]Well, at least they didn't HIDE IT.Nov 17 01:39
DaemonFC[m]So if I ran into that problem I'd just google "no storage device dell xps 13 linux" or something.Nov 17 01:39
DaemonFC[m]And I'd be on my way.Nov 17 01:39
DaemonFC[m]I'm pretty terrified of what's out there to the point where I want a newer laptop but I don't want to buy anything.Nov 17 01:40
MinceRi suspect intel's and microshit's problem with properly documenting intel's shit was that that way competing OS-es could have just as easily supported intel's shitNov 17 01:40
DaemonFC[m]Because it's all a pig in a poke and some work, many don't. Nov 17 01:40
MinceRremember, intel was willing to design a "windows only" SoC for microshit for the sole purpose of fucking over usersNov 17 01:40
mjg59Intel are fine with Linux, but certain teams within Intel are extremely afraid to publish detailsNov 17 01:41
DaemonFC[m]Bay FAIL was a disaster even with Windows.Nov 17 01:41
MinceRmaybe the 32bit UEFI implementation also had to do with themNov 17 01:41
MinceRwhich, again, only existed to make it harder to run a real OS on certain intel-based devicesNov 17 01:41
mjg5932 bit UEFI was vendors wanting to ship 2GB Windows tabletsNov 17 01:41
DaemonFC[m]Wasn't that the first system they marooned people on an unsupported Windows 10 that didn't even get security patches anymore?Nov 17 01:41
DaemonFC[m]It won't be the last.Nov 17 01:41
MinceRwhy, did 64bit UEFI require more than 2GB RAM to function?Nov 17 01:41
mjg59YesNov 17 01:41
mjg59WellNov 17 01:41
mjg59To be able to actually launch anythingNov 17 01:42
MinceRit wouldn't surprise me, considering what an unholy bloated mess it isNov 17 01:42
mjg5964 bit Linux needs more RAM than 32 bit LinuxNov 17 01:42
DaemonFC[m]Not a lot more, really.Nov 17 01:42
mjg59Turns out that doubling the length of pointers takes more RAMNov 17 01:42
mjg59DaemonFC[m]: Python on 64 bit consumes around 50% more RAM than on 32 bitNov 17 01:42
MinceRpretty sure it can boot with less than 2GB RAM thoughNov 17 01:42
DaemonFC[m]I was probably one of the first people to move over to 64-bit Linux in 2005 or so.Nov 17 01:42
DaemonFC[m]That was on a system with maybe 2 GB.Nov 17 01:42
MinceRand the boot firmware is supposed to free most of RAM once it's doneNov 17 01:43
mjg59Anyway, that's why 32 bit UEFI on 64 bit CPUs existsNov 17 01:43
mjg59It's almost 100% on devices that had small amounts of RAMNov 17 01:43
MinceR(or let whatever it booted use it any way it wants to, anyway)Nov 17 01:43
MinceRthat's a hilarious idea tooNov 17 01:43
mjg59You can't boot 32 bit Windows on 64 bit UEFINov 17 01:43
mjg59So the amount of RAM used by the firmware is irrelevantNov 17 01:43
DaemonFC[m]Why does that even still exist?Nov 17 01:43
MinceRlet's design devices to run the world's most bloated "operating system" with so little RAM we have to fuck with the boot firmware so it will fit!Nov 17 01:44
mjg59MinceR: Capitalism is a hell of a drugNov 17 01:44
DaemonFC[m]Windows 10 32-bit. Ugh.Nov 17 01:44
MinceRthis isn't capitalism, this is plain old organized crimeNov 17 01:44
mjg59Anyway, Linux runs fine on them nowNov 17 01:44
DaemonFC[m]You'd really think that Windows Vista would have been the end of the line for 32-bit x86 Windows.Nov 17 01:44
MinceRit has nothing to do with ownership of the means of productionNov 17 01:44
mjg59Even in 64 bitsNov 17 01:44
DaemonFC[m]By 2009 the platform was very much obsolete.Nov 17 01:45
MinceRand if we had a genuine free market, microshit would have gone bust long agoNov 17 01:45
DaemonFC[m]Here we are, 15 YEARS after the last 32-bit x86 processor that anyone cares about came off the line, and we're still talking about 32-bit Windows.Nov 17 01:45
DaemonFC[m]OEMs skimping on RAM to save 10 cents.Nov 17 01:45
DaemonFC[m]This is backpeddling. 4 GB of RAM on any OS in 2020 is a fucking joke.Nov 17 01:46
DaemonFC[m]You can blow right past that on Linux with all but the most minimal desktop environment and applications.Nov 17 01:46
DaemonFC[m]So, like, what chance does a Windows 10 device have? None. That's why everyone on the reviews say this is really really slow.Nov 17 01:47
MinceRmostly thanks to the "modern" webNov 17 01:47
mjg59Walmart will sell you a laptop with 2GB of RAM todayNov 17 01:47
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, a Chromebook probably.Nov 17 01:47
mjg59NoNov 17 01:48
DaemonFC[m]Actually, I bought a $179 Chromebook with 4 GB in April.Nov 17 01:48
mjg59Windows 10Nov 17 01:48
DaemonFC[m]So, uhhh.Nov 17 01:48
MinceRlolNov 17 01:48
DaemonFC[m]What are you talking about, actually?Nov 17 01:48
mjg59And so thermally limited that it's only capable of running at half speedNov 17 01:48
mjg59 17 01:48
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | We bought Walmart’s $140 laptop so you wouldn’t have to | Ars TechnicaNov 17 01:48
DaemonFC[m]Chrome OS is the only system that anyone knows what the fuck you're talking about that will still be decent with 4 GB of RAM.Nov 17 01:48
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MinceRsounds like a laptop the sole purpose for which is to demonstrate that you either need more than 2GB RAM, or you need to ditch BackdoorsNov 17 01:48
mjg59Hardware vendors will cut any corners available to them to skimp on hardware to hit a price pointNov 17 01:49
mjg59So 32 bit UEFI was entirely unsurprisingNov 17 01:49
MinceRpretty sure any _decent_ GNU/Linux distro will do fine with 4GB RAM if you don't weigh it down with a shitty DE or the "modern" webNov 17 01:49
DaemonFC[m]It's a system that's designed to show off Windows 10 with the minimum specs published by Microsoft.Nov 17 01:49
DaemonFC[m]How does that EVER end?Nov 17 01:49
mjg59No conspiracies neededNov 17 01:49
DaemonFC[m]You know, 10 minutes to boot up. Out of memory when it does.Nov 17 01:49
DaemonFC[m]mjg59: You'd think that for $1300 there wouldn't be too many compromises. Apple can get away with charging 4x that for a system that's half as good.Nov 17 01:50
DaemonFC[m]But few others could.Nov 17 01:50
MinceRwell, at least with crApple you also don't get proper coolingNov 17 01:50
DaemonFC[m]Apple gets away with a lot, including a HIG that makes no sense at all.Nov 17 01:51
DaemonFC[m]One button mice that cost $200.Nov 17 01:51
MinceRand a system that already won't boot a real OSNov 17 01:51
MinceRbecause "security"Nov 17 01:51
DaemonFC[m]Perversions that only the head of IBM or the Linux foundation would enjoy using.Nov 17 01:51
mjg59T2 Macs can have secure boot entirely disabledNov 17 01:52
MinceRyou can also get a "unibody" that blows hot air onto the part that's supposed to be one piece but is actually glued together so it falls apartNov 17 01:52
DaemonFC[m]Yes, I've read that. That's the only Secure Boot setting you need. OFFNov 17 01:52
MinceRand a power connector that overheats and catches fireNov 17 01:52
mjg59M1 Macs will have the ability to enable booting alternative OSesNov 17 01:52
MinceRyou really get a lot for your money with crAppleNov 17 01:52
MinceRnot things any sane person would desire, but things.Nov 17 01:53
mjg59(Although this was only determined this week)Nov 17 01:53
DaemonFC[m]Especially with this fucking stupid break drivers AND userspace Linux Lockdown bullshit you like so much.Nov 17 01:53
MinceRi wonder if they'll let you sideload applications onto M1 macsNov 17 01:53
MinceRthey were already screwing with third-party applications (like xonotic) before, but afaik it wasn't officialNov 17 01:53
mjg59DaemonFC[m]: That's why shim's designed to let you disable that if you need itNov 17 01:54
mjg59MinceR: There's no difference between ARM and x86 for third party apps on MacOS at the momentNov 17 01:54
DaemonFC[m]Even if you can't turn off allegedly secure but designed by the same retards that fucked everything else up boot?Nov 17 01:54
mjg59DaemonFC[m]: YesNov 17 01:54
MinceRso they don't dare make that change yetNov 17 01:55
mjg59shim is explicitly designed to ensure that it's always possible to disable secure bootNov 17 01:55
MinceRi guess they'll still update crapOS for x86 a few timesNov 17 01:55
MinceRand lock it down only once x86 support is goneNov 17 01:55
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DaemonFC[m]mjg59: So, you might have noticed that with most OEMs the first and last firmware you get is what it came with.Nov 17 01:56
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DaemonFC[m]So when there's tons of security vulnerabilities that completely bypass secure boot, they just pile up on the user, never get fixed, and that's that.Nov 17 01:56
DaemonFC[m]So why would anyone leave it on?Nov 17 01:56
mjg59DaemonFC[m]: Because they use systems where they do get vendor updates?Nov 17 01:57
MinceRbecause microshit marketroids keep telling them it's "secure"Nov 17 01:57
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MinceRand most people are so stupid that if someone spends a lot of money on ads claiming falsehoods, they'll believe themNov 17 01:57
mjg59Obviously you can't implement something secure on an insecure foundationNov 17 01:58
mjg59But if you have a secure foundation, you canNov 17 01:58
MinceRthen maybe your boot firmware shouldn't be as complex as possibleNov 17 01:58
MinceRand maybe your means of keeping your boot firmware unaltered shouldn't depend on potentially fragile cryptography but hardware switchesNov 17 01:58
DaemonFC[m]So if you have one of those theoretical systems where the vendor that doesn't care about bugs is fixing bugs, Secure Boot works.Nov 17 01:58
DaemonFC[m]Well thank you for clarifying that.Nov 17 01:59
mjg59I've got like 4 of those within reachNov 17 01:59
mjg59No, 5Nov 17 01:59
MinceRbut claiming that locking users into Backdoors or crapOS is "secure" is a ludicrous claim anywayNov 17 01:59
DaemonFC[m]Which vendor is actually fixing their systems?Nov 17 01:59
mjg59Lenovo, Dell, HP at leastNov 17 01:59
DaemonFC[m]Lenovo never updated the BIOS for this thing other than the "Linux only" one.Nov 17 02:00
MinceR“We really haven’t done everything we could to protect our customers. Our products just aren’t engineered for security.” – Brian Valentine, MicrosoftNov 17 02:00
DaemonFC[m]So if you count that, where its just the original image with the AHCI shown, then yeah.Nov 17 02:00
DaemonFC[m]Sure. Okay.Nov 17 02:00
DaemonFC[m]In 4 years, they've never fixed a goddamned thing.Nov 17 02:00
MinceRwell, the HP "Pro"Book i've used at work which had broken Legacy Boot was pretty oldNov 17 02:00
MinceRyet they didn't fix itNov 17 02:01
MinceRand seeing how the firmware in that POS behaved, i doubt HP could even ever fix itNov 17 02:01
MinceRsince they obviously had no clue about what they were doingNov 17 02:01
DaemonFC[m]I've never seen an OEM fix anything or if they do it's a one and done a few months past hitting the shelf.Nov 17 02:01
mjg59MinceR: That quote's from 2002, which was the year Microsoft's trustworthy computing initiative startedNov 17 02:01
MinceRLOLNov 17 02:01
mjg59Since then Microsoft's legitimately made meaningful improvements to their securityNov 17 02:01
MinceRare you going to plug Treacherous Computing now?Nov 17 02:02
mjg59Things like Credential Guard are well designed featuresNov 17 02:02
MinceRthat's hilariousNov 17 02:02
DaemonFC[m]Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer say Trust Me.Nov 17 02:02
mjg59No, that's Trusted ComputingNov 17 02:02
DaemonFC[m]Very Trustworthy individuals.Nov 17 02:02
mjg59Completely unrelated to Microsoft's Trustworthy Computing initiativeNov 17 02:02
DaemonFC[m]Lots of truth coming from that direction, let me tell you.Nov 17 02:02
MinceRso, since you're the resident Treacherous Computing shill, please explain to me how having an Endorsement Key on the TPM enhances securityNov 17 02:02
MinceR(not DRM, security.)Nov 17 02:02
mjg59It allows you to prove your identity to a remote siteNov 17 02:03
mjg59For most users this isn't a benefitNov 17 02:03
MinceRhow?Nov 17 02:03
mjg59For corporate users, it isNov 17 02:03
MinceRit is bound to the identity of your TPM, not youNov 17 02:03
MinceRand it can be read from the TPM after de-capping itNov 17 02:03
mjg59In combination with a platform certificate you verify that the machine has a specific serial number that was issued to a specific userNov 17 02:03
MinceRyou'd be better served by a real keypair on a real smart card if you wanted thatNov 17 02:03
MinceRwho cares about the serial number of the machine? we're talking about proving the identity of a user hereNov 17 02:04
mjg59If you get a request from a machine associated with one user but which is authenticating as another user, you refuse the requestNov 17 02:04
mjg59Read up on BeyondcorpNov 17 02:05
MinceRi'm not buying itNov 17 02:05
mjg59Outside that:Nov 17 02:05
mjg59You use the EK to establish an AK while you're in a trusted stateNov 17 02:05
mjg59The public half of the AK goes on your phoneNov 17 02:06
MinceRapparently one big improvement in security on microshit products is that Backdoors10 finally ships with a keylogger built inNov 17 02:06
MinceRoh wait, that's actually the opposite of securityNov 17 02:06
mjg59On boot, before you type in your password, your laptop generates a signed PCR quote and pushes it over Bluetooth to your phoneNov 17 02:06
smnthermesInteresting read: 17 02:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Linux | Madaidan's InsecuritiesNov 17 02:06
MinceRand why would i want to involve my phone in security, when phones are even less secure than PCs?Nov 17 02:06
mjg59And your phone then tells you whether your OS has been modified before you type anything inNov 17 02:06
MinceRBluetooth... greatNov 17 02:07
mjg59Now someone needs to compromise both your phone and your laptopNov 17 02:07
mjg59The transport layer here is entirely irrelevantNov 17 02:07
MinceRso all the attacker needs to do is break into the BT connectionNov 17 02:07
mjg59It doesn't need to be trustedNov 17 02:07
mjg59NoNov 17 02:07
mjg59All you could do by breaking the BT connection is DoS the processNov 17 02:07
mjg59You verify the communication is signed with the AKNov 17 02:07
MinceRand the attacker doesn't even need to modify your OS, since it's full of holes anywayNov 17 02:08
mjg59 17 02:08
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-"TPM based attestation - how can we use it for good?" - Matthew Garrett (LCA 2020) - YouTubeNov 17 02:08
MinceRnot only do microshit and crApple not care about the security of their OSes at all (outside advertisements, anyway), they also serve the NSANov 17 02:08
mjg59Oh, this is all using LinuxNov 17 02:08
MinceRof course if you have to rely on BT to boot, you'll have to have BT enabled on your PC when bootingNov 17 02:18
MinceRso how do i prevent an attacker from using BT to send keystrokes with which to implement an attack?Nov 17 02:19
MinceRsay, i switch to a root shell to do whatever, and suddenly they send a sequence of commands to change the root password and clear the consoleNov 17 02:19
MinceRmaybe also ping a server the attacker runs so they know when to exploit thisNov 17 02:20
mjg59At this point you don't run enough of the Bluetooth stack to pair with arbitrary devicesNov 17 02:20
mjg59The kernel simply won't set up HIDNov 17 02:20
mjg59You can disable it again afterwardsNov 17 02:21
MinceRwell, if you have the connection key for one device, you can just send keyboard events over that, can't you?Nov 17 02:21
MinceRi mean, does the BT stack mind if the phone also starts acting as a keyboard?Nov 17 02:22
mjg59Just don't include the BT_HIDP driver in your initramfsNov 17 02:23
mjg59And then the kernel literally doesn't have support for itNov 17 02:23
MinceRi seeNov 17 02:23
mjg59The phone can do what it wants, the kernel will ignore itNov 17 02:23
mjg59But thanks, that's a good questionNov 17 02:24
MinceRnpNov 17 02:24
MinceRit's something that's keeping me from enabling BT on my PCsNov 17 02:25
MinceR(it's an issue on phones too, but i don't trust my phones for security anyway)Nov 17 02:25
mjg59That's a legitimate stanceNov 17 02:25
MinceRwell, at least that's a non-DRM and non-windows-enforcing use for the EK, even if it is distastefully centralized for my tasteNov 17 02:30
MinceRalso, whatever authority issued that EK could have a copy of it and they could potentially break this scheme if they wanted toNov 17 02:30
MinceRor someone who breaks into their systems or forces their complianceNov 17 02:30
MinceRoh, and hopefully the TPM wasn't made by infineon, whose crypto library was found to generate weak keys or something...Nov 17 02:31
mjg59For the local state attestation stuff, having a private copy of the EK only works if you're in a position to spoof the AK certificationNov 17 02:32
mjg59The EK doesn't get used again after thatNov 17 02:32
mjg59Of course, a backdoored TPM could lie to youNov 17 02:32
mjg59And generate a backdoored AKNov 17 02:32
MinceRwhat if they redid the AK-generation part?Nov 17 02:32
mjg59But a backdoored TPM could just lie in its quote anywayNov 17 02:33
mjg59User has to re-trigger the AK generation to enroll a new public half on the phoneNov 17 02:33
mjg59So yeah if you can force the user to do that and have control of EKpriv you're able to spoof themNov 17 02:33
mjg59But bootstrapping trust without any existing trust is basically impossibleNov 17 02:34
mjg59The goal isn't to make it impossible, it's to increase the number of people that have to be subvertedNov 17 02:34
mjg59Ideally to the point where it's more expensive than compromising you is worthNov 17 02:34
MinceRi seeNov 17 02:34
mjg59Anyway, thanks for the feedbackNov 17 02:35
MinceRnpNov 17 02:35
mjg59I really do care about making use of this technology in ways that don't lock people down and which still provide additional securityNov 17 02:35
mjg59I don't think most people need to worry about the sort of attack that's blocked by this specific stuffNov 17 02:35
mjg59But there are activists and journalists who doNov 17 02:35
mjg59And I want to be able to give them a free software solutionNov 17 02:36
MinceRseems to me this should work without an EK too, thoughNov 17 02:37
MinceRyou could just use a random number (possibly generated on the TPM or smart card or token)Nov 17 02:37
mjg59Yeah, like I said the EK side of things is more useful when you want to be able to tie machine identity to user identity more stronglyNov 17 02:37
mjg59And that's basically only in corporate scenariosNov 17 02:37
MinceRand should probably work with a smartcard or token instead of a TPMNov 17 02:37
mjg59Sometimes you really do care about the device identity, and don't want it to be easy to move that to a different machineNov 17 02:38
MinceRright, when the attacker would replace your machine or its innardsNov 17 02:38
mjg59For example, if you want to restrict access to systems that contain customer data to devices that you know are running your security toolingNov 17 02:38
MinceRstill, they could extract the TPM and put it in the new machineNov 17 02:39
mjg59So an attacker who gets user creds can't just access that from any machineNov 17 02:39
MinceRi probably skipped a lot of steps there anywayNov 17 02:39
mjg59Yeah, but again it's not about making it impossible, it's about making it more expensive than it currently isNov 17 02:39
mjg59Decapping a TPM and reading stuff out isn't super cheapNov 17 02:39
mjg59And you're not going to have time to do it while someone's going through airport securityNov 17 02:40
MinceRwell, a lot of this stuff assumes a motivated attacker with lots of resources anywayNov 17 02:40
mjg59SureNov 17 02:40
mjg59But is the sort of stuff I have to worry aboutNov 17 02:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Operation Aurora - WikipediaNov 17 02:40
mjg59They've got better in the past 10 years, we also need to improve our baselineNov 17 02:41
mjg59If we don't do anything to make things harder, they winNov 17 02:41
mjg59And people literally dieNov 17 02:41
DaemonFC[m]Coreboot might have an actual secure version of Secure Boot. I don't know. Does it?Nov 17 02:42
DaemonFC[m]It could be a feature if the user actually had any control over who to trust.Nov 17 02:43
mjg59Not currentlyNov 17 02:43
mjg59Eh it depends what you meanNov 17 02:43
mjg59Chromebook-style Secure Boot, yesNov 17 02:43
MinceRchromebook-style sounds good to meNov 17 02:43
DaemonFC[m]Well, the way Secure Boot actually works, in practice, is that OEMs completely remove control of it from the user except on off and pre-trust Microsoft even if you don't actually trust Microsft.Nov 17 02:44
mjg59For UEFI it's still not fully secure - variable updates aren't verified, so anyone can add new trusted keysNov 17 02:44
DaemonFC[m]So that's not helpful.Nov 17 02:44
MinceRtheir approach seemed much more reasonable than the UEFI/TC superbloated house of cards approachNov 17 02:44
mjg59I would very much prefer a solution that involved less firmware code than is in UEFINov 17 02:44
mjg59But I work with what I haveNov 17 02:45
DaemonFC[m]So, for a user that wants control it's increasingly a "just turn it off" thing.Nov 17 02:47
DaemonFC[m]It's not secure and, worse, it's breaking your computer.Nov 17 02:47
DaemonFC[m]If you need out of tree kernel modules, it breaks your computer.Nov 17 02:47
MinceRa "just buy a device without it" would be even better, but we don't have a free marketNov 17 02:47
DaemonFC[m]If you want to hibernate, it breaks your computer.Nov 17 02:47
DaemonFC[m]If you want to toggle a kernel setting, it probably breaks your computer.Nov 17 02:48
MinceRi bought a used pre-UEFI pre-IME laptop, but it's old :>Nov 17 02:48
DaemonFC[m]Trying to do any more than the bare minimum to get Linux working at all with this abomination is way too far.Nov 17 02:48
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, I too had a computer that was somewhat sane. Circa 2009-ish. Phenom II based.Nov 17 02:48
DaemonFC[m]None of this user doesn't control anything shit.Nov 17 02:49
DaemonFC[m]If the user is an idiot they will manage to install malware.Nov 17 02:49
DaemonFC[m]Case closed.Nov 17 02:49
MinceRand if i wanted to carry my secure daily driver machine everywhere with me, that one's too heavy for thatNov 17 02:49
DaemonFC[m]If the user is on Windows, it's a race between malware and system corrupting itself.Nov 17 02:49
DaemonFC[m]Plan to reinstall every year, minimum.Nov 17 02:50
DaemonFC[m]Which is a problem if you can't do a clean install because of LOL NO VO.Nov 17 02:50
DaemonFC[m]mjg59: So it's not just Linux users who would have eventually had this issue. In fact, there were how to guides to slipstream the Intel RST driver, which Intel doesn't even provide btw. You have to get it as an "update" and extract it to a folder on a Windows 10 USB stick, and then hit F8 like it's 2002 all over again.Nov 17 02:51
DaemonFC[m]I'm sure this is a "Grandma will figure that out." issue.Nov 17 02:51
MinceR:>Nov 17 02:51
MinceRjust like the issue of how to turn off Restricted Boot on a Backdoors logo compliant machine :>Nov 17 02:51
DaemonFC[m]Secure Boot would be the least of your problems on a Lenovo Yoga eventually.Nov 17 02:52
DaemonFC[m]Because Windows will completely fuck everything up requiring the OEM to re-image it, and you only get 12 months of warranty, and they may not even honor that.Nov 17 02:53
DaemonFC[m]And that's how most people would see this problem. That or "Buy another computer. This one's broken.".Nov 17 02:53
DaemonFC[m]I guess, flip side is that you can take it to a PC repair shop that knows what the hell is going on and pay them $150. That's also something a garden variety user might do.Nov 17 02:54
DaemonFC[m]No matter how mjg59tries to spin it, this is a user nightmare and it decreases reliability and increases cost of ownership.Nov 17 02:55
DaemonFC[m]Any reputable company that wanted to protect their brand would never, EVER, have done this.Nov 17 02:55
mjg59I'm not saying it was a good decisionNov 17 02:55
mjg59I'm saying that it's an understandable decisionNov 17 02:55
DaemonFC[m]Understandable in the context of making every one of your customers hate you and say we're not doing that again.Nov 17 02:57
mjg59Pretty clearly not every one of their customersNov 17 02:58
MinceRclearly customers don't careNov 17 02:59
DaemonFC[m]Well, the ones who understand what the hell just happened.Nov 17 02:59
MinceRmost of them, i meanNov 17 02:59
MinceRthe industry is suffering for crApple syndromeNov 17 02:59
DaemonFC[m]And in the wake of their crapware-reinstalling BIOS and their Superfish scandal, meh.Nov 17 02:59
DaemonFC[m]Par for the course I guess.Nov 17 02:59
DaemonFC[m]Fuck Lenovo.Nov 17 02:59
DaemonFC[m]mjg59: They actually had to pay me a settlement of like $150 on this computer, btw.Nov 17 02:59
DaemonFC[m]Because it had some other privacy violating piece of shit that I blew away years ago when I got rid of Windows.Nov 17 03:00
MinceRhave they learned from it though?Nov 17 03:00
DaemonFC[m]I guess not.Nov 17 03:00
MinceRs/for/from/Nov 17 03:00
DaemonFC[m]They just keep doing it and then paying the settlement.Nov 17 03:00
DaemonFC[m]Hey, hell, I'm fine with that.Nov 17 03:00
DaemonFC[m]$150 out of the blue. Okay.Nov 17 03:00
DaemonFC[m]Pretty sure it was spying on other people, plus on top of Windows it can't get much worse.Nov 17 03:03
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: the fun with windows is even with windows 10.   You print a document and its a game of dice if the document will print or the windows printer que will crash.Nov 17 03:10
MinceRah yes, the Year of Windows on the DesktopNov 17 03:11
oiaohmThe big different using Linux is setting up printers could be a pain but once you got them printing no magic issues.Nov 17 03:11
oiaohmAs in the most regular defect you start noticing not there.Nov 17 03:12
oiaohmAlso the other one is I printed that I will just stop that print and you are on Linux and its already gone.  Nov 17 03:14
DaemonFC[m]Even with Apple sabotaging CUPS, things aren't THAT bad.Nov 17 03:29
DaemonFC[m]I think the guy that was maintaining CUPS at Apple resigned or something.Nov 17 03:30
DaemonFC[m]Maybe that will slow them down at removing things that it could already do because their users are far too fucking stupid to figure out web interface and such.Nov 17 03:30
DaemonFC[m]I'm always very skeptical when they say they actually created an interface where a piece of hardware, a printer no less, configures itself.Nov 17 03:31
DaemonFC[m]In fact, between the sad and sorry state of the drivers, the printers themselves, and the ink cartridge fuckery, I just send print jobs to FedEx and pick them up when I drop Mandy off at work.Nov 17 03:32
DaemonFC[m]13 cents a page is nothing compared to the 7 levels of hell that is dealing with an HP printer.Nov 17 03:32
kingoffrancewell the all-in-one "configure itself" means listening on x different interfaces y different protocolsNov 17 03:33
kingoffrancei mean sure, its "configured" if you are against the concept of a firewallNov 17 03:34
DaemonFC[m]MinceR: Since Okular supports PDFs with fillable forms, I can even kick documents back and forth with immigration. It's really a nightmare all of the unnecessary questions those forms ask.Nov 17 03:34
DaemonFC[m]Doing it by hand would be quite awful.Nov 17 03:34
kingoffrance(not referring to cups, referring to modern printers)Nov 17 03:34
DaemonFC[m]<kingoffrance "i mean sure, its "configured" if"> Well, with the state of the art firewall in my Netgear modem, I can open ports for all of the latest internet standards, including MSN Messenger.Nov 17 03:35
*kingoffrance pictures web app wanting to open portsNov 17 03:35
kingoffrancedont give them ideasNov 17 03:35
DaemonFC[m]MSN wasn't as bad as Skype.Nov 17 03:35
DaemonFC[m]Early versions of MSNP were even submitted as IETF drafts, oddly. Nov 17 03:36
DaemonFC[m]There's some sites that have things configured so that you can just keep using the program with their server standing in for MSN or AOL Instant Messenger or whatever.Nov 17 03:37
kingoffranceyeah game stuff is similar didnt blizzard get mad over a clone or something long ago?Nov 17 03:39
kingoffranceold stuff i mean, lots of things are unusuable without a server runningNov 17 03:39
DaemonFC[m]I miss Tiberian Sun, although the lack of anti-cheat was glaring. Nov 17 03:40
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MinceRDaemonFC[m]: evince does tooNov 17 03:43
MinceRkingoffrance: well, with the wonderful train wreck known as UPnP, it can theoretically even get your router to make port forwards to itselfNov 17 03:44
kingoffranceyeah couldnt think of the name thats what i meant :)Nov 17 03:44
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DaemonFC[m]I'm going to get Mandy some clothes on Black Friday.Nov 17 04:32
DaemonFC[m]They say there's not going to be one and then they do it anyway in the middle of the third wave.Nov 17 04:33
DaemonFC[m]Because Capitalism. Nov 17 04:33
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scientes<vZS1> I feel like the word "documentation" also got 1984edNov 17 06:09
scientesoh, he leftNov 17 06:09
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers • 🅃🅄🅇 🄼🄰🄲🄷🄸🄽🄴🅂 ☞ []Nov 17 07:12
schestowitz> 17 07:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Standing up for developers: youtube-dl is back - The GitHub BlogNov 17 07:26
schestowitz> <>Nov 17 07:26
schestowitz> Nov 17 07:26
schestowitz> GitHub does not stand for developers, it stands for Microsoft.Nov 17 07:26
schestowitz> Nov 17 07:26
schestowitz> This is the biggest lie yet.Nov 17 07:26
schestowitzRe: A huge lieNov 17 07:26
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scientesno shitNov 17 07:33
psydroid<DaemonFC[m] "Yeah, I too had a computer that "> I still have 3 AM2 desktops with Athlon64 (X2) and Phenom X4 processors for occasional use, but I'm moving more and more workloads towards more powerful and more open ARM hardware with hopefully more affordable RISC-V and POWER options becoming available over the next few years as wellNov 17 07:38
scientesthe new x86_64 chips have much better SIMDNov 17 07:40
scientesbut of course computers spend most of their time waiting for user input, and compiling javascriptNov 17 07:40
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psydroidI do have laptops with Skylake and Kaby Lake (and even a few with Atom Celeron) processors, but those all have the dreaded UEFI stuffNov 17 07:50
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The Real Richard Stallman is Not Coming Back • 🆃🅴🅲🅷🆁🅸🅶🅷🆃🆂 ☞ []Nov 17 08:11
scientespsydroid, I am just saying that free software is a long roadNov 17 08:16
scientesFPGAs are much more flexibleNov 17 08:17
scientesbut I am struggling to get into themNov 17 08:17
schestowitza bit of a straw man, imhoNov 17 08:22
schestowitzbtw, i think risc-v has its issuesNov 17 08:22
schestowitzpertaining mostly to covert controlNov 17 08:22
schestowitzbut for many practical purposes it's the best we have at the moment, afaikNov 17 08:22
schestowitzraspi is anotherNov 17 08:22
schestowitz 17 08:23
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Richard Stallman Still Works to Improve the Freedom of the Widely-Used RasPi (Produced in the United Kingdom by the Raspberry Pi Foundation) | TechrightsNov 17 08:23
schestowitzit is already practicalNov 17 08:23
schestowitzsoon it might also be freeNov 17 08:23
schestowitzMicrosoft ALREADY tried to undermine it, as it did OLPC, by infiltrating the raspi foundationNov 17 08:23
schestowitzto push vista10 on raspi, obviously...Nov 17 08:23
schestowitzI think raspi managed to escape that suicidal path about 3 years agoNov 17 08:24
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schestowitzhi allNov 17 08:40
schestowitz reagrding IRC logsNov 17 08:40
schestowitzis it worth producing text-only logs?Nov 17 08:40
schestowitzplain text?Nov 17 08:40
schestowitzI'm leaning towards, "no", as there's little gain except for people who dislike htmlNov 17 08:41
schestowitzroy@vonick:~$ html2text -width 70 irc-log-techrights-201020.html | head -n 90 | tail -n 20Nov 17 08:41
schestowitzMinceR      it's nice to see that someone has brought CUPS back from the dead                     20Nov 17 08:41
schestowitz                                                                                                  02:Nov 17 08:41
schestowitz                                                                                                  42Nov 17 08:41
schestowitz                                                                                                  OctNov 17 08:41
schestowitzMinceR      i wonder if the things the cupertino mafia broke in it will be fixed too              20Nov 17 08:41
schestowitz                                                                                                  02:Nov 17 08:41
schestowitz                                                                                                  42Nov 17 08:41
schestowitz                                                                                                  OctNov 17 08:41
schestowitzschestowitz link?                                                                                 20Nov 17 08:41
schestowitz                                                                                                  02:Nov 17 08:41
schestowitz                                                                                                  44Nov 17 08:41
schestowitz                                                                                                  OctNov 17 08:41
schestowitzschestowitz Apple does not need printing anymore anyway... in the name of the environment they    20Nov 17 08:41
schestowitz            only include the handset and you can use the old plotter from the 1980s               02:Nov 17 08:41
schestowitz                                                                                                  45Nov 17 08:41
schestowitz                                                                                                  OctNov 17 08:41
schestowitz*GNUmoon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)                                                     20Nov 17 08:41
schestowitz                                                                                                  02:Nov 17 08:41
schestowitz                                                                                                  48Nov 17 08:41
schestowitz                                                                                                  OctNov 17 08:41
schestowitzthere might also be better converters of IRC logs into textNov 17 08:42
schestowitzthis one is a warping of the html output, using pypyNov 17 08:42
schestowitzso basically a two-step indirectionNov 17 08:42
schestowitzbut for ipfs text or plain text format may be preferable and more accessibleNov 17 08:43
schestowitzdue to whitespaces the file size for html and plain text (as above) is roughly the sameNov 17 08:43
schestowitzwhich means that server storage requirements would double in the long runNov 17 08:43
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vZS1You can just view them in a browserNov 17 08:51
vZS1But I wouldn't be against a plaintext version as wellNov 17 08:51
vZS1Just read the article on RMS by fig. That was a nice start to the morningNov 17 08:52
schestowitzdevi's advocate:Nov 17 08:52
vZS1I didn't know RMS promoted GitHubNov 17 08:52
schestowitzjust paste/upload raw IRC logsNov 17 08:52
vZS1He should know better than thatNov 17 08:52
schestowitzbut they're less readable than other possible formsNov 17 08:53
schestowitzthey're more machine readableNov 17 08:53
schestowitzvZS1: he does not promote githubNov 17 08:53
schestowitzand the article says as muchNov 17 08:53
schestowitzhe was early in warning against itNov 17 08:53
schestowitzbut the tools he now promotes may be github-hostedNov 17 08:53
vZS1Did I misread the articleNov 17 08:53
vZS1Hold onNov 17 08:53
vZS1Let me check againNov 17 08:54
schestowitzin 2015 he already said avoid GitHubNov 17 08:54
schestowitztwo alternatives to zoom etc. are github-hostedNov 17 08:54
schestowitzand we really need to tell everyone to abandon itNov 17 08:54
schestowitzI keep telling curl's lead devNov 17 08:54
schestowitz[07:07] <schestowitz> 17 08:54
schestowitz[07:07] [Notice] -TechrightsBN to #boycottnovell- | Daniel Stenberg: " they're not connected in a…" - MastodonNov 17 08:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Daniel Stenberg: " they're not connected in a…" - MastodonNov 17 08:54
schestowitz[07:07] <schestowitz> GitHub is always compromised because it is controlled by a third party with very strong ties to the NSA and the RIAANov 17 08:54
schestowitzHe has just had his Twitter account compromisedNov 17 08:54
schestowitzand then someone asked about 'his' github accountNov 17 08:55
schestowitzthese people should know betterNov 17 08:55
schestowitzcurl can be accused of being 'piracy'-enabing toolNov 17 08:55
schestowitzipfs can be accused of all sorts of thingsNov 17 08:55
schestowitzterrorism, child pr0n etc.Nov 17 08:55
schestowitzand then taken down, its main repoNov 17 08:55
schestowitzthey play with fireNov 17 08:55
vZS1> The FSF tells him to promote GitHub, and he does. They give him a platform, as long he says exactly what they’re saying already.Nov 17 08:55
schestowitzipfs is about dwebNov 17 08:55
schestowitzgithub is the very antithesis of itNov 17 08:55
schestowitzcentralised AND proprietaryNov 17 08:56
schestowitznew FSF pres uses shithubNov 17 08:56
schestowitzsame with the latest board membersNov 17 08:56
schestowitzthose are unhelpful if our goal (or the FSF's goal) should be to get people OFF shithubNov 17 08:56
schestowitzwhich is only a GROWING threatNov 17 08:56
schestowitzand OSI seems to converge with githubNov 17 08:57
schestowitzmajority of OSI budget is now funnelled into github lockinNov 17 08:57
schestowitzand Microsoft groupNov 17 08:57
schestowitzwhich is hysterically alarmingNov 17 08:57
schestowitzOSI is basically a zombie at this pointNov 17 08:57
schestowitzit has not a single employeeNov 17 08:57
schestowitzit's GM is "interim"Nov 17 08:57
schestowitzthe only salaried staff is "interim"Nov 17 08:57
vZS1A lot of them have been bought outNov 17 08:57
schestowitzDeb IcazaNov 17 08:57
schestowitzvZS1: if they don't sell out, they get oustedNov 17 08:58
schestowitzthen replaced by people who do sell outNov 17 08:58
vZS1YepNov 17 08:58
vZS1That's the GAFAM MONov 17 08:58
schestowitzpolitical entryism and cult atcticsNov 17 08:58
schestowitzhappens a lot in British govt.Nov 17 08:58
schestowitzMicrosoft works to remove people who suggest we have sovereignty over our techNov 17 08:58
vZS1This is why I say we have a loose federation of projects helping each otherNov 17 08:58
schestowitzI've not yet seen Google doing thatNov 17 08:59
vZS1Instead of a centralised operationNov 17 08:59
schestowitzI have many examples from British govt.Nov 17 08:59
schestowitzseen things over the yearsNov 17 08:59
schestowitzpeople lost their jobNov 17 08:59
schestowitzfor no good reason other than not appeasing US tech empireNov 17 08:59
schestowitzthey get painted as zealots or somethingNov 17 08:59
vZS1They can't remove you from an organisation that doesn't existNov 17 09:00
schestowitzand then people elsewhere get paid (bought)Nov 17 09:00
schestowitzvZS1: figos once made a good pointNov 17 09:00
schestowitz(he authored that article)Nov 17 09:00
schestowitzhe saidNov 17 09:00
schestowitzonce you become a foundationNov 17 09:00
schestowitzyou can get boughtNov 17 09:00
schestowitzcompanies buy a "share"Nov 17 09:00
schestowitzand then they steer the projectNov 17 09:00
schestowitzthat's what seemingly happened to OSI and then FSFNov 17 09:00
vZS1Pretty muchNov 17 09:00
schestowitzI forgot LFNov 17 09:01
vZS1That's why I stay away from foundationsNov 17 09:01
vZS1I have my own projectNov 17 09:01
vZS1I help out others when I canNov 17 09:01
vZS1It works well for meNov 17 09:01
psydroidscientes, I worked with Cyclone III recently and I should have Quartus installed on this machine, but for some reason I can't find it anymoreNov 17 09:05
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scientesthe FPGA I bought didn't include the JTAG cableNov 17 09:05
scientesand it is a non-standard plugNov 17 09:06
scientescause it is smaller to fit on a m.2 boardNov 17 09:06
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vZS1And plug in an RSS/Atom generation tool, while I'm at it.Nov 17 09:10
scientes<scientes> <vZS1> I feel like the word "documentation" also got 1984edNov 17 09:12
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scientesits because with the internet we are going so *fast* that we don't need documentationNov 17 09:12
vZS1ETA ~2 weeksNov 17 09:16
vZS1So I'll catch ya laterNov 17 09:16
vZS1Got to get choppingNov 17 09:17
schestowitz 17 09:21
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Drawing All the Wrong Lessons From Media’s Election 2020 Failures — FAIRNov 17 09:21
vZS1BtwNov 17 09:21
vZS1 17 09:21
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Applied Pokology - GNU poke development newsNov 17 09:21
vZS1This looks like it'll help find out what's hiding in binary blobsNov 17 09:22
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scientesI'm coldNov 17 10:09
schestowitzvZS1: it's already in Daily Links and bulltinsNov 17 10:26
schestowitzbut I didn't look too deep into itNov 17 10:26
schestowitzscientes: literally? illness?Nov 17 10:26
schestowitzmonths ago you were sweating like a hog? Are you somewhere south of Russia?Nov 17 10:27
*scientes has never seen a hog sweatNov 17 10:27
schestowitzHog: I sweat like a HUMAN!Nov 17 10:31
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #HowTo Use Bash printf Command for Printing Formatted Outputs • 🅃🅄🅇 🄼🄰🄲🄷🄸🄽🄴🅂 ☞ []Nov 17 10:33
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: LazPaint: A #FreeSW Paint.NET Alternative • 🅃🅄🅇 🄼🄰🄲🄷🄸🄽🄴🅂 ☞ •●• #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines #News []Nov 17 10:38
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Top 6 Open Source Shells for Linux • 🅃🅄🅇 🄼🄰🄲🄷🄸🄽🄴🅂 ☞ []Nov 17 10:41
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: KDE maintainers speak on why it is worth looking beyond GNOME • 🅃🅄🅇 🄼🄰🄲🄷🄸🄽🄴🅂 ☞ []Nov 17 10:42
schestowitztask:Nov 17 10:44
schestowitzfor allNov 17 10:44
schestowitzZDNet used to have a writer called JamieNov 17 10:44
schestowitzhe had a sort of blogNov 17 10:44
schestowitzcommunity gnu/linuxNov 17 10:44
schestowitzdid not have his own siteNov 17 10:44
schestowitzhe vanished after a whileNov 17 10:44
schestowitzhis surname is very commonNov 17 10:44
schestowitzso there must be loads of brits with his nameNov 17 10:45
schestowitzbut..Nov 17 10:45
schestowitzif someone can find us his email addressNov 17 10:45
schestowitzI want to speak to himNov 17 10:45
schestowitzto find out why he stopped writing there, and altogether vanishedNov 17 10:45
schestowitzhe would be about retirement ageNov 17 10:45
schestowitz 17 10:46
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Jamie's Mostly Linux Stuff | ZDNetNov 17 10:46
schestowitzJamie WatsonNov 17 10:46
schestowitzthat's his nameNov 17 10:46
schestowitz"jamie watson  zdnet email"Nov 17 10:46
schestowitznets nothing reallyNov 17 10:47
schestowitz 17 10:47
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-New email / phone SCAM | ZDNetNov 17 10:47
schestowitzhe had nothing published since sept. last yearNov 17 10:47
schestowitz14 monthsNov 17 10:47
schestowitzcbs went bust last decemberNov 17 10:47
schestowitzthe parent company of zdnetNov 17 10:47
schestowitzthen the site became massive anti-linux propaganda apparatusNov 17 10:48
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: If you want to go far, together is faster (I). • 🅃🅄🅇 🄼🄰🄲🄷🄸🄽🄴🅂 ☞ []Nov 17 10:58
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schestowitz"Nov 17 11:55
schestowitzThe 2020 Staff Survey is now complete. Thanks to all of you who participated despite all the difficulties generated by the current pandemic!Nov 17 11:55
schestowitzSome (worrying) preliminary results are available in English and French.Nov 17 11:55
schestowitz'Nov 17 11:55
schestowitz “A range of senior advisers dissuaded the president from moving ahead with a military strike. The advisers — including Vice President Mike Pence; Secretary of State Mike Pompeo; Christopher C. Miller, the acting defense secretary; and Gen. Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff — warned that a strike against Iran’s facilities could easily escalate into a broader conflict in the last weeks of Mr. Nov 17 12:09
schestowitz Trump’s presidency.” 17 12:09
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Trump Sought Options for Attacking Iran to Stop Its Growing Nuclear Program - The New York TimesNov 17 12:09
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers • 🅃🅄🅇 🄼🄰🄲🄷🄸🄽🄴🅂 ☞ []Nov 17 12:15
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Qt 3D Changes in Qt 6 • 🅃🅄🅇 🄼🄰🄲🄷🄸🄽🄴🅂 ☞ []Nov 17 12:18
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MinceR(cat) 17 13:36
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4828233)Nov 17 13:36
MinceR 17 13:46
schestowitzgives you chicken wingsNov 17 13:50
MinceR:)Nov 17 13:52
schestowitzand watermelons or somethingNov 17 13:54
MinceR(no audio) 17 14:13
XRevan86MinceR: What is that?Nov 17 14:17
MinceRrainbowNov 17 14:18
XRevan86MinceR: What causes it to appear?Nov 17 14:20
MinceRwater droplets in the airNov 17 14:20
MinceRsome of the clouds suggest it's rainingNov 17 14:21
schestowitzhow did it become 360 circular?Nov 17 14:28
MinceRthe viewpoint is high enough from that tower so that the ground doesn't obscure the lower halfNov 17 14:30
schestowitzvZS1: thanks for all you're done lately. I will do an article now about IPFSNov 17 14:34
schestowitzlater I will add relevant stuff to the top menu.Nov 17 14:34
schestowitzearlier on I noticed distrotube now does gopherNov 17 14:35
vZS1YwNov 17 14:35
schestowitzseems like the WWW fatigue rapidly growsNov 17 14:35
schestowitzMicrosoft ShitHub takedowns will help dwebNov 17 14:35
vZS1DefinitelyNov 17 14:35
schestowitzthe idea that we cannot let other firms kill everything at one "point of failure"Nov 17 14:35
schestowitzand thus it's not worth even TRYINGNov 17 14:35
schestowitz 17 14:36
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Single Points of Failure and Proprietary Entrapment (Microsoft GitHub) | Tux MachinesNov 17 14:36
schestowitzMicrosoft running like headless chicked nowNov 17 14:36
schestowitz*chickenNov 17 14:36
vZS1I already built a simple HTTP server with Go todayNov 17 14:36
vZS13 simple files servedNov 17 14:36
vZS1Homepage, ipfs CID index, and RSS feedNov 17 14:37
vZS1I'll hack on this over the next week or twoNov 17 14:37
schestowitz "If #microsoft #github was standing up for developers, it would have told #RIAA to eff off while coming up with a better policy framework to deal with bogus #DMCA claims." Nov 17 14:38
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | 💀Undead Bill💀: "If github was standing up for developers, it woul…" - BSD NetworkNov 17 14:38
schestowitzvZS1: cheers, I will get into advocacyNov 17 14:38
schestowitzI read a lot about itNov 17 14:38
schestowitzas I want to understand what I recommend/write aboutNov 17 14:38
schestowitzit's not easyNov 17 14:38
schestowitznow I can pipe with ipfs cat CID | kate whateverNov 17 14:38
schestowitzso those objects being arbitrary streams is powerfulNov 17 14:39
vZS1I'm going to using my own outlet to publish about the technical stuffNov 17 14:39
schestowitzeven more so than web browsersNov 17 14:39
schestowitzI wonder if server-side serving from ipfs as stream would be fast enoughNov 17 14:39
schestowitzbut that would sort of miss the point, being one central access pointNov 17 14:40
vZS1I can chuck my RSS feed at you, once it's readyNov 17 14:40
schestowitzwhich then connects to peers to serveNov 17 14:40
schestowitzvZS1: ok, goodNov 17 14:40
schestowitzyou could promote it through usNov 17 14:40
schestowitzcrossposting with outward linksNov 17 14:40
schestowitzsome people have done that before, it helps them get indexed and find readersNov 17 14:41
vZS1Thanks. I'll definitely use that privilege. Nov 17 14:41
vZS1I'm abandoning RedditNov 17 14:41
vZS1I haven't posted the in 2 monthsNov 17 14:41
schestowitzgoodNov 17 14:41
schestowitzreddit is horribleNov 17 14:41
schestowitzreally, really horribleNov 17 14:41
vZS1I've been working on an alternative way to spread publicationsNov 17 14:41
schestowitzyou'll realise this only AFTER leavingNov 17 14:41
vZS1It's almost ready nowNov 17 14:42
schestowitzthe addiction/habit can be blindingNov 17 14:42
vZS1I just wanted to share my work with you. Because we're on the same sideNov 17 14:42
schestowitzcheersNov 17 14:42
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vZS1Re: GitHub standing up for developers Nov 17 14:48
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vZS1Sure have a lot of delusional devs out thereNov 17 14:48
vZS1#deleteGitHub is one of our key objectivesNov 17 14:49
vZS1If people don't leave centralised development platforms, we're all doomedNov 17 14:51
vZS1The people that control the infra control the ecosystemNov 17 14:51
schestowitzand the peopleNov 17 14:54
schestowitz 17 14:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | The Story About Microsoft’s Plan for GitHub Says a Lot About the Motivations and the Lies Told to Us for Over Half a Decade | TechrightsNov 17 14:55
schestowitzwill  ipfs_howto.txt  be published elsewhere?Nov 17 14:56
schestowitzor can I use that as basis for manual to readers?Nov 17 14:57
*GNUmoon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)Nov 17 14:57
smnthermes> [notice] Tux Machines: Qt 3D Changes in Qt 6 Nov 17 15:01
smnthermesQt 6? *sigh*Nov 17 15:01
schestowitzvZS1: 17 15:08
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Delete Android Apps on Github - TechrightsNov 17 15:08
schestowitzsee yubicoNov 17 15:08
schestowitzsmnthermes: soon proprietary parhapsNov 17 15:09
schestowitz*perhapsNov 17 15:09
schestowitzunless they change their mindsNov 17 15:09
oiaohmschestowitz: before github we had the sourceforge mess patching installers with crap ware.    There has been a long term problem where to get good hosting.Nov 17 15:14
oiaohmfor open source projectsNov 17 15:14
schestowitzsoruceforge also sucksNov 17 15:14
schestowitznext question :-)Nov 17 15:14
schestowitz> There has been a long term problem where to get good hosting.Nov 17 15:15
schestowitzThis question itself represents the problemNov 17 15:15
schestowitzit assumes must must outsource the hostingNov 17 15:15
schestowitzit's like saying, if not McDolands, where to eat?Nov 17 15:15
schestowitzMcDonaldsNov 17 15:15
schestowitzas if cooking at home isn't a possibility anymoreNov 17 15:15
schestowitzprocessed and prepared food isn't the sole choiceNov 17 15:15
oiaohmSelf hosting with the current tools is not really practical for everyone either.Nov 17 15:16
schestowitzdistributed development across the Internet can be done internally within the projectNov 17 15:16
schestowitzlike replicated setup on some developers' private machines or low-powered serversNov 17 15:16
schestowitzoiaohm: nonsenseNov 17 15:16
oiaohmThe tools for doing distributed development are not really developed well.Nov 17 15:16
schestowitzif you cannot manage a project with some toolsNov 17 15:16
schestowitzthen your codeNov 17 15:16
schestowitzthe technical workNov 17 15:16
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schestowitzwill likely suck tooNov 17 15:17
schestowitzit doing git by email, the way lkml is done, is too hard for youNov 17 15:17
schestowitzthen go awayNov 17 15:17
schestowitzas your code won't be any betterNov 17 15:17
schestowitzthe access barrier can weed up time wasters who cannot codeNov 17 15:17
schestowitzunlike githubNov 17 15:17
schestowitzthis is why Torvalds  rejects "PRs" from Microsoft GitHubNov 17 15:17
schestowitzdrive-bt crapNov 17 15:17
schestowitz*byNov 17 15:17
schestowitzoiaohm: that's FUD >>The tools for doing distributed development are not really developed well.Nov 17 15:18
oiaohmlkml still has servers that have agreed to keep archives.   This is help for when emails get eaten somewhere by some server.Nov 17 15:18
schestowitzbut it worksNov 17 15:18
schestowitzand thousands of developers use itNov 17 15:18
schestowitzmost projects don't have that scaleNov 17 15:18
schestowitzwith a dedicated staff memberNov 17 15:18
schestowitzI forgot his nameNov 17 15:19
oiaohmIssue is scale has got the lkml the extra bits it need that it works.Nov 17 15:19
schestowitzmaybe UkrainianNov 17 15:19
schestowitzfor a project with 10 coders you can use a rapiNov 17 15:19
schestowitzeven gitlab would run on thatNov 17 15:19
schestowitzor gitea/gogNov 17 15:19
schestowitzyou can back it up and replicate to other nodesNov 17 15:19
schestowitzit's not too hardNov 17 15:19
schestowitzand you have control over the whole chain thenNov 17 15:20
vZS1schestowitz: I'm going to do a full piece on IPFS. Nov 17 15:20
vZS1So I'd appreciate if you just kept the how-to internalNov 17 15:21
oiaohmAs you have found with ipvs there is a horrible steep learning curve.   This is what I mean we don't have the tools well developed in this area.Nov 17 15:21
oiaohmIts something that need to be made simpler that a person with less skills wanting to start a project can get functional self hosting up in seconds that in fact works.Nov 17 15:21
vZS1You can write your own stuff based off it thoughNov 17 15:22
schestowitzyes, that's what I thought, but it's too earlyNov 17 15:23
schestowitzoiaohm: that has nothing to do with ipfsNov 17 15:23
schestowitzipfs is different and for different purposesNov 17 15:23
schestowitzit's about censorship resistance, load-balancing, prevservationNov 17 15:24
schestowitzdistributed development is inherently different, people commit to a server they jointly own and controlNov 17 15:24
schestowitzthey can even set up replication for itNov 17 15:25
MinceR 17 15:46
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - SapiensNov 17 15:46
oiaohmschestowitz: the problem is having a server they jointly own particularly when a project is new and starting out.   So those starting  projects look to sourceforge/github.....  as it is the lowest skill required.   Also does not have trouble with ISPs that say no personal servers.Nov 17 15:49
oiaohmThe tools to make it easy don't exist.   We have distributions for firewalls and that kind of stuff preconfigured but we don't have something that comes out the box configured for this is you starting a personal project on your own server p2p to the other developers.Nov 17 15:50
oiaohmIt a gap that need to be filled.Nov 17 15:51
MinceRmaybe there could be a GNU/Linux (or BSD) distro that would set up a home server running Tor hidden services and/or I2P sitesNov 17 15:52
oiaohmSomething like that setup for software development with issue reporting and so on could give a very small barrier to entry for those going self server software development.Nov 17 15:53
oiaohmIts always simple to forgot the learning curve problem.Nov 17 15:54
schestowitzlearning curve can be goodNov 17 15:54
schestowitzif you look for high-quality contributorsNov 17 15:54
oiaohmand bad.Nov 17 15:54
schestowitzand not a bunch of trolls shitposting and writing "hello world" programsNov 17 15:54
schestowitzcode is not social control mediaNov 17 15:54
schestowitzand if there's a lesson to be learned from 'social' mediaNov 17 15:55
schestowitzis that it encourages and rewardsNov 17 15:55
schestowitzharmful rumours and junkNov 17 15:55
schestowitzwe don't want that in codeNov 17 15:55
oiaohmIssue reporting to learn what is not working with your program learning curve being too high cuts that information off as well.Nov 17 15:55
schestowitzmozilla shows what happens when they repel geeksNov 17 15:55
schestowitzoiaohm: give downloadable source and binariesNov 17 15:55
schestowitznot everyone must participate Nov 17 15:55
schestowitzLinux is hard to participate inNov 17 15:55
schestowitzyet it's amazingly popularNov 17 15:56
schestowitzwhich debunks what you sayNov 17 15:56
schestowitzmany of the most widely used programs are NOT on shithubNov 17 15:56
schestowitzand they're doing fineNov 17 15:56
oiaohmLinux you have redhat and other collecting issues from end users and taking it up stream.Nov 17 15:56
oiaohmThat requires quite a bit of growth to get to that point.Nov 17 15:56
schestowitzno shithubNov 17 15:57
oiaohmEarly Linux some of the reason it took so long was poor reporting of issues.Nov 17 15:57
schestowitzok, you're partly trolling nowNov 17 15:57
schestowitzI'll get back to workNov 17 15:57
oiaohmschestowitz: No I was around Linux in 1992.Nov 17 15:58
oiaohmThat not trolling.Nov 17 15:58
oiaohmThere were cases of issues being lost in the early system.Nov 17 15:58
oiaohmwhen distributions started and started their issue trackers those issues started getting up stream more effectively.Nov 17 15:58
oiaohmThere are bugs in the Linux kernel developer basically plasted over by the distribution bug systems.Nov 17 15:59
oiaohmschestowitz: You may not like lot of project that had old systems like the Linux still that have enough resources have mirgated to their own gitlabs.   The is some serous problems with the Linux kernel development model mostly masked over by other layers like distributions the Linux has collected over the years.Nov 17 16:03
oiaohmA new project starting out with the core Linux kernel system is going to run into some serous problems.Nov 17 16:03
oiaohmIts not like github model is 100 percent wrong.Nov 17 16:04
oiaohmIts not 100 percent right either.Nov 17 16:05
DaemonFC[m]Gitlab works fine for issue tracking.Nov 17 16:14
DaemonFC[m]And you can self host a Free Software version of it.Nov 17 16:14
DaemonFC[m]Amazing that GNOME chose to do that.Nov 17 16:14
oiaohmsetting that up as a small project starting out is not that simple.Nov 17 16:15
oiaohmThis is the curve problem.Nov 17 16:16
oiaohmIf that can be made simpler using third party hosting as primary will come lot less appealing.Nov 17 16:17
MinceR(cat) 17 16:17
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4827663)Nov 17 16:17
oiaohm   Hmm really what is going to be left of importance at mozilla.Nov 17 16:19
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Mozilla Punts Servo Web Engine Development To The Linux Foundation - PhoronixNov 17 16:19
MinceRlolNov 17 16:20
smnthermesOhNov 17 16:23
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schestowitzlolNov 17 16:23
schestowitz[16:14] <DaemonFC[m]> Amazing that GNOME chose to do that.Nov 17 16:25
schestowitzKDE also has its own CI pipeline and code management systemsNov 17 16:25
schestowitzand they do just fineNov 17 16:25
schestowitzmillions of users, many contributorsNov 17 16:25
MinceRnot sure about that :>Nov 17 16:25
vZS1I'm building a bug tracker on top of IPFS as well. Just give me time. (;Nov 17 16:25
MinceRthey went for style over substance with 4.x and systemd with 5.xNov 17 16:25
schestowitznot because of code managementNov 17 16:27
schestowitzmore to do with mobile and androidNov 17 16:27
schestowitzso they try to catch up with those thingsNov 17 16:27
schestowitzlike the new pinephoneNov 17 16:27
vZS1I'm pissing a lot of people off with my work. I must be doing something right.Nov 17 16:29
vZS1I have a kind of gauge. The more ZDnet, TheRegister, and the like shit talk something, the more I pay attention to that thingNov 17 16:30
vZS1Because they're mouthpieces for GAFAMNov 17 16:30
vZS1You know they're being paid to trash talk people and projectsNov 17 16:30
vZS1It's a great litmus testNov 17 16:30
MinceR:)Nov 17 16:31
vZS1Giving away their hand without realising itNov 17 16:32
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MinceR 17 16:53
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Time TravelNov 17 16:53
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XRevan86 oh come onNov 17 17:01
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Google Is Already Experimenting With WebP2 As Successor To WebP Image Format - PhoronixNov 17 17:01
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DaemonFC[m]The KDE LTS series seems to be fairly stable.Nov 17 17:05
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DaemonFC[m]WebP2. Because nobody adopted the last one so here's another.Nov 17 17:05
DaemonFC[m]Google will never put out a successful standard like MP3 or JPEG because nobody has time to adopt and standardize and accept a format before Google breaks the bitstream.Nov 17 17:06
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DaemonFC[m]You can open files from the 90s just fine, and newer software creates more highly optimized files that still work on all the hardware in the interim.Nov 17 17:08
DaemonFC[m]If you make an MP3 on the latest LAME encoder, an RCA stereo from 1998 would still play it and so would Windows 95.Nov 17 17:08
DaemonFC[m]An exceptionally hardy standard, if not the absolute best one.Nov 17 17:09
smnthermesWebM seems sucessful thoughNov 17 17:09
DaemonFC[m]And with these new formats, it's fire and forget.Nov 17 17:09
DaemonFC[m]Nobody is really upstream supporting Vorbis even though it could be more.Nov 17 17:09
MinceRor because MPEG LA members are just going to sabotage it anywayNov 17 17:09
MinceRas crApple did with webmNov 17 17:10
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DaemonFC[m]MPEG LA "arranged a deal" with Google. Over those formats.Nov 17 17:36
DaemonFC[m]So they'll be feasting on patent royalties until the cows come home.Nov 17 17:36
XRevan86MinceR: WebM is just a containerNov 17 17:36
DaemonFC[m]Because those VP8 and 9 codecs already apparently infringe on at least some of their patent pool.Nov 17 17:36
DaemonFC[m]And some is enough to extract concessions. Nov 17 17:37
XRevan86MinceR: The formats are: VP8, VP9, AV1Nov 17 17:37
MinceRwell, not exactlyNov 17 17:37
DaemonFC[m]This ridiculous codec proliferation is nuts.Nov 17 17:37
DaemonFC[m]My laptop can hardware decode VP9, but not AV1.Nov 17 17:37
MinceRwebm is a container (matroska) and particular codecsNov 17 17:37
DaemonFC[m]So thermonuclear meltdown so that you can get marginally better compression.Nov 17 17:37
XRevan86MinceR: rightNov 17 17:37
DaemonFC[m]They're in on this with the hardware companies because you're supposed to go hmm this is terrible time for a new computer.Nov 17 17:38
DaemonFC[m]And that dav1d decoder at least tries to make the best of a bad situation.Nov 17 17:38
MinceRnot just marginally better compression, but also trying to get out of the MPEG LA mafia's stranglehold on our video and audioNov 17 17:38
MinceRand on the webNov 17 17:38
DaemonFC[m]I don't get what the win is here.Nov 17 17:39
DaemonFC[m]It infringes on the same patents VP9 would and perhaps more.Nov 17 17:39
MinceRthough the "open web" is already dead, thanks to TBL and the likes of crApple, microshit and NETFUCKSNov 17 17:39
DaemonFC[m]MinceR: Well, the glass half full version goes that Widevine is at least better than Flash and Silverlight.Nov 17 17:39
MinceRbittorrent and mpv are a lot better than all of thoseNov 17 17:40
DaemonFC[m]Because those were competing with a lot of the web platform that can be done in a browser whether you have DRM on or off.Nov 17 17:40
DaemonFC[m]A success of, especially Silverlight, would have been a disaster that was 10 times bigger than Widevine.Nov 17 17:40
DaemonFC[m]You couldn't really implement it on Linux, and Microsoft had that fake patent covenant where they say they won't sue a "conforming implementation", whatever that is.Nov 17 17:41
DaemonFC[m]But no promise that they won't seed the patents to a troll who would, as they have done before.Nov 17 17:41
DaemonFC[m]They even tried doing that with OpenGL, with the patents they got when SGI went under.Nov 17 17:41
DaemonFC[m]You could have just as easily called Vulkan OpenGL 5.x, but marketing.Nov 17 17:42
DaemonFC[m]Legacy OpenGL has a lot of stuff that piled up that no longer makes much or any sense on modern hardware.Nov 17 17:43
DaemonFC[m]Microsoft made a similar leap with DirectX 12 but left the name alone.Nov 17 17:43
XRevan86I really like Microsoft, the last years they haven't done a single thing that could be considered malicious, a true champion of good practices.Nov 17 17:43
XRevan86 17 17:43
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | NO TITLENov 17 17:43
MinceRlolNov 17 17:44
DaemonFC[m]Calling it Vulkan opens up the possibility of removing OpenGL entirely some day.Nov 17 17:44
DaemonFC[m]Emulating it on top of Vulkan like DirectX on Vulkan does now. Nov 17 17:44
XRevan86DaemonFC[m]: It's called Zink.Nov 17 17:45
DaemonFC[m]Or like MoltenGL and MoltenVK do on Macs.Nov 17 17:45
DaemonFC[m]Free up transistor count. Reduce complexity and size of graphics drivers.Nov 17 17:46
DaemonFC[m]I'm glad that 3dfx's position that OpenGL was bloated and terrible is finally resurfacing.Nov 17 17:46
DaemonFC[m]20 years after they went bankrupt. Nov 17 17:47
XRevan86DaemonFC[m]: OpenGL ES is not that bloated though.Nov 17 17:47
DaemonFC[m]It certainly didn't get more efficient. Hardware was just getting better to the point that it could brute force its way past the inefficiencies.Nov 17 17:47
XRevan86OpenGL changed a lot in these 20 years.Nov 17 17:48
XRevan86But it's still more programmer-friendly than hardware-friendly, and that limits its application.Nov 17 17:51
XRevan86It makes more sense to have something programmer friendly implemented on top of something hardware friendly.Nov 17 17:51
XRevan86But maybe we'll see something better than OpenGL in this regard too. Something lower-level-ish but not quite.Nov 17 17:56
CrystalMathi hate shadersNov 17 17:58
CrystalMathand GLSLNov 17 17:58
CrystalMathidk, i just hate openglNov 17 18:04
CrystalMathwhen i do 3D, i just do it manuallyNov 17 18:04
CrystalMathi code my own transforms, and it's 100% software-renderedNov 17 18:04
CrystalMaththat eliminates the advantage of having hardware acceleration, so that people without it (like me) aren't discriminatedNov 17 18:05
MinceRlolNov 17 18:12
DaemonFC[m]The whole thing about GLSL being optional (and versioned so many times) and the fixed function pipeline being mandatory even though it was a holdover from the late 90s was really stupid.Nov 17 18:15
DaemonFC[m]So there's that.Nov 17 18:15
DaemonFC[m]At least the shader language is part of the baseline spec in Vulkan.Nov 17 18:15
CrystalMathMinceR: see, i'm doing affirmative action towards not having 3D acceleration :)Nov 17 18:22
MinceRaffirmative action is bigotryNov 17 18:24
CrystalMathmeh, OpenGL is bigotryNov 17 18:26
CrystalMathjust write your own 3D engineNov 17 18:27
CrystalMathwith its own modelview and projection matricesNov 17 18:27
XRevan86on top of cairoNov 17 18:27
CrystalMathmaybeNov 17 18:27
CrystalMathcairo may be a bit muchNov 17 18:27
CrystalMathi would just do a standard X pixmapNov 17 18:27
XRevan86on top of cursesNov 17 18:27
CrystalMath:PNov 17 18:27
CrystalMaththat exists actuallyNov 17 18:28
CrystalMathttyquake!Nov 17 18:28
CrystalMathbutNov 17 18:28
CrystalMathi would just render to an X pixmapNov 17 18:28
CrystalMaththen XCopyPlane()Nov 17 18:28
DaemonFC[m]skip.....for now -MicrosoftNov 17 18:31
psydroid 17 18:41
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@jhamby: I don’t care about Andy Rubin one way or the other, since I never knew him personally, but because he’s almost a de… 17 18:41
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@jhamby: I don’t care about Andy Rubin one way or the other, since I never knew him personally, but because he’s almost a de… 17 18:41
schestowitzlol... hambyNov 17 18:42
schestowitzfrom Microsoft/GoogleNov 17 18:42
schestowitzSangerNov 17 18:42
schestowitzDangerNov 17 18:42
schestowitzDon't ask him about back doors 17 18:42
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Former Microsoft Employees Don’t Like Talking About Past and Present Microsoft Back Doors (Designed for Spy Agencies) | TechrightsNov 17 18:42
schestowitzhe'll go crazyNov 17 18:42
psydroidlolNov 17 18:42
MinceRstranger danger?Nov 17 18:46
schestowitzlarry sagnerNov 17 18:51
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DaemonFC[m]People on Windows don't even want to use Edge, so Microsoft resorts to sleazy high pressure vacuum machine sales tactics. and they still don't switch. So why would anyone put it on their Linux system, trust Microsoft's signing key, and then add a repo where Microsoft could install anything they want later?Nov 17 19:03
DaemonFC[m]I mean, really, this is "open up the door and the sales guy throws dirt all over your carpet and then offers to clean it up" type stuff.Nov 17 19:04
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Mozilla Outsourcing to Microsoft Proprietary Software via ’Linux’ Foundation • 🅃🅄🅇 🄼🄰🄲🄷🄸🄽🄴🅂 ☞ []Nov 17 19:06
DaemonFC[m]But it's really more like that episode of I Love Lucy where she schemes to make money as a vacuum machine salesperson and then throws the dirt all over this guy's carpet and then the stupid vacuum can't even pick any of it up and just grinds it further into the carpet. That's the sort of product Microsoft's web browser always is. Nov 17 19:06
DaemonFC[m]schestowitz: ^Nov 17 19:07
DaemonFC[m]If you had a reputable product that speaks for itself as far as quality, you barely need advertising, because people would just buy it and then tell their friends how good it is, and that's the sort of "money can't buy" advertising that you need, which is how Firefox got popular before Mozilla threw it all away and canned the engineers. Nov 17 19:08
DaemonFC[m]There's a reason why Apple pummels people with advertising instead of just letting their products stand on their own. Nov 17 19:09
schestowitzvZS1: until the pgp alternatives dump githubNov 17 19:09
schestowitzthey are no better than pgpNov 17 19:09
schestowitzor gnupgNov 17 19:09
DaemonFC[m]The advertising drives up the sales price because psychologists design the stuff to appeal to people's base instincts. Greed. Wanting to make neighbors jealous. Etc. Nov 17 19:09
schestowitzimho, hosting with an NSA code hostNov 17 19:09
schestowitzis no better than some of the things gnupg is accused ofNov 17 19:09
schestowitzif not worseNov 17 19:09
DaemonFC[m]"Personalization", makes you have an emotional attachment to an inanimate object.Nov 17 19:10
DaemonFC[m]And I'm all about customization. But come on.....Nov 17 19:10
vZS1Gnupg develops in its own servers, I believeNov 17 19:10
vZS1Sequoia is on GitLabNov 17 19:10
DaemonFC[m]You can't really customize your iPhone.Nov 17 19:10
schestowitzahNov 17 19:10
schestowitzgitlabNov 17 19:10
DaemonFC[m]You can make it say "Good Morning, Dave." ;) but you can't sideload programs.Nov 17 19:10
vZS1Nettle is on self-hosted GitLabNov 17 19:11
schestowitzthe company gitlabNov 17 19:11
schestowitzrather than the software gitlabNov 17 19:11
DaemonFC[m]So it's "marketing personalization". You can't truly make it yours.Nov 17 19:11
schestowitzam looking into theseNov 17 19:11
vZS1Nettle isn't PGP thoughNov 17 19:11
DaemonFC[m]Dark psychology is everywhere at Microsoft and Apple.Nov 17 19:11
vZS1It's a generic crypto libraryNov 17 19:11
vZS1In CNov 17 19:11
DaemonFC[m]They pressure and they scheme and they appeal to people's vanity and selfishness.Nov 17 19:12
DaemonFC[m]Like a Vegas casino.Nov 17 19:12
DaemonFC[m]Psychologists design casinos too. Every bit of them. They're designed to make everyone feel special.Nov 17 19:12
vZS1Sequoia uses Nettle as the crypto back-end. The PGP goes on top of the crypto primitivesNov 17 19:13
vZS1PGP is just a message formatNov 17 19:13
schestowitzDaemonFC[m]: need to get people off WindowsNov 17 19:13
schestowitzand NOT adding PPAs of Microsoft to gnu/linuxNov 17 19:13
schestowitzit's an ongoing issue to tackleNov 17 19:13
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, but the need really surfaced with XP, in my opinion. Nov 17 19:13
schestowitzsame with deletegithub etcNov 17 19:13
DaemonFC[m]With the Product Activation. Even at 17 years old I heard that was coming and I was pissed.Nov 17 19:14
schestowitzvZS1: thanks for these pointersNov 17 19:14
vZS1YwNov 17 19:14
schestowitzI am going to write some things soonNov 17 19:14
schestowitztoday/tonight: more epo and upc though, more urgentNov 17 19:14
schestowitzzoobab: did you see bristowsNov 17 19:14
schestowitz"SMEs"Nov 17 19:14
schestowitzde gov says SMEs love UPC :-)Nov 17 19:15
schestowitzGermany self-nuking by saying that SMEs love UPC Nov 17 19:15
DaemonFC[m] 17 19:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Giuliani Is Said to Seek $20,000 a Day Payment for Trump Legal Work - The New York TimesNov 17 19:15
vZS1Germany is no better than any other nation stateNov 17 19:15
vZS1They all want to spy on peopleNov 17 19:15
DaemonFC[m]$20,000 a day to play into the racist mobster's fantasy that he may turn this around somehow.Nov 17 19:16
DaemonFC[m]Despite his lawsuits going splat quicker than you can even write articles about it.Nov 17 19:16
vZS1> schestowitz: today/tonight: more epo and upc though, more urgentNov 17 19:19
vZS1Once I get my infrastructure sorted, I'm going to get back to writing as well.Nov 17 19:19
vZS1Going to do a lot on public education about the internet, privacy, and securityNov 17 19:20
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Tails 4.13 is out []Nov 17 19:20
vZS1Not so much rights, as I'll leave that up to youNov 17 19:20
XRevan86 17 19:20
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Google TranslateNov 17 19:20
XRevan86I just hate this irony.Nov 17 19:21
DaemonFC[m] 17 19:21
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Judy Shelton’s Fed nomination in jeopardy after Republican senator Charles Grassley quarantines due to coronavirus - The Washington PostNov 17 19:21
DaemonFC[m]Trump is trying to put some crank who thinks we should return to the gold standard on the Fed.Nov 17 19:21
DaemonFC[m]"Shelton’s support narrowed after Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa) said he would immediately quarantine. Three other GOP senators oppose her confirmation."Nov 17 19:21
XRevan86that those people, who try to defend the rule of law against Putin, are not allowed to immigrate to the US for being totalitarians or somethingNov 17 19:21
DaemonFC[m]I don't think that Grassley really needs to quarantine.Nov 17 19:21
vZS1I'll focus on the technical side of things.Nov 17 19:21
DaemonFC[m]I think that they don't want to confirm her and they also don't want to take any heat for failing to do so.Nov 17 19:22
XRevan86There are whole layers of irony in this text, I hope it'll get translated.Nov 17 19:23
XRevan86 that's also a good oneNov 17 19:23
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | NO TITLENov 17 19:23
DaemonFC[m] 17 19:24
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | South Dakota nurse Jodi Doering says dying patients deny coronavirus is real - The Washington PostNov 17 19:24
XRevan86schestowitz: Meduza fixed Atom/RSS.Nov 17 19:24
DaemonFC[m]"Doering said she has covid-19 patients who need 100-percent-oxygen breathing assistance and who will also swear they don’t have the illness that has ended the lives of nearly a quarter-million people in the United States since February.Nov 17 19:24
DaemonFC[m]“I think the hardest thing to watch is that people are still looking for something else and a magic answer and they do not want to believe covid is real,” Doering told CNN in an interview Monday.Nov 17 19:24
DaemonFC[m]“Their last dying words are, ‘This can’t be happening. It’s not real,’” Doering said, adding that some patients prefer to believe that they have pneumonia or other diseases rather than covid-19, despite seeing their positive test results."Nov 17 19:24
XRevan86Don't know when, I just checked and it's there.Nov 17 19:25
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Best 5 Gnome extensions for better user experience • 🅃🅄🅇 🄼🄰🄲🄷🄸🄽🄴🅂 ☞ []Nov 17 19:26
DaemonFC[m] 17 19:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | United States Coronavirus: 11,588,630 Cases and 253,177 Deaths - WorldometerNov 17 19:26
DaemonFC[m]ILLinoisNov 17 19:26
*XRevan86 is very pissed at that US policy, being barred not even for doing anything incriminating.Nov 17 19:26
DaemonFC[m]525 dead today with only 16 states reporting so far.Nov 17 19:26
XRevan86but then again, not really out of characterNov 17 19:27
schestowitzToday, after 14 months of silence 17 19:27
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Hands-on with the Raspberry Pi 400: Pleased and impressed | ZDNetNov 17 19:27
schestowitzjust HOURS after we mentioned his silence hereNov 17 19:27
DaemonFC[m]I'll probably take the vaccine.Nov 17 19:27
schestowitzXRevan86: meduza rss started working again yesterdayNov 17 19:28
schestowitz*the English oneNov 17 19:28
XRevan86The English one, yes.Nov 17 19:28
schestowitz[19:24] <XRevan86> schestowitz: Meduza fixed Atom/RSS.Nov 17 19:28
schestowitzahNov 17 19:28
schestowitzbeat me to itNov 17 19:28
XRevan86I am glad that the Communist party still does worthy things for a change. Even if they're literally powerless and that has no practical effect (while being the second largest party).Nov 17 19:29
DaemonFC[m] 17 19:30
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Georgia recount: Election workers try to finish count before deadlineNov 17 19:30
DaemonFC[m]They did find 2,600 ballots in a Georgia county that weren't counted the first time around.Nov 17 19:30
DaemonFC[m]They had an optical scanning error.Nov 17 19:30
DaemonFC[m]They figure it would give Trump, at most, probably another 800 votes.Nov 17 19:30
DaemonFC[m]Won't change the result but will give him ammunition to say rigged election, unfortunately.Nov 17 19:30
XRevan86Not really a party that could handle power though, it'd just crumble under its own internal disagreements.Nov 17 19:30
DaemonFC[m]But most counties say that their totals are either the same or with differences in the single digit numbers.Nov 17 19:31
XRevan86"Is it authoritarian or is it libertarian?" Yes.Nov 17 19:32
DaemonFC[m]Even if you gave Trump the benefit of every possible doubt in Georgia, it would fail to even take away 10% of Biden's lead.Nov 17 19:36
DaemonFC[m]There's one audit allowed under the law and then they certify the results.Nov 17 19:36
XRevan86DaemonFC[m]: I don't think they planned this through, they acted fast.Nov 17 19:36
DaemonFC[m]Even if they were going to audit it again, it's not like they'll take away another 1,000 votes from Biden's lead, if they even get there with the one audit.Nov 17 19:37
XRevan86Or maybe the only thing they wanted is to throw some "illegitimacy" onto the new administration.Nov 17 19:38
DaemonFC[m]The first audit is a double check and you get almost 100% of the oopses figured out.Nov 17 19:38
DaemonFC[m]So they're not going to do a second audit to get 1% of the difference the first one made.Nov 17 19:38
schestowitzTrump lostNov 17 19:39
schestowitzold news(TM)Nov 17 19:39
schestowitzthe coup is the newsNov 17 19:39
schestowitzlike him trying to start a a warNov 17 19:40
XRevan862020 coups: Putin, Lukashenko, TrumpNov 17 19:40
XRevan86any other I missed?Nov 17 19:40
DaemonFC[m]Even if he somehow got a million votes thrown out in this insane Pennsylvania lawsuit, it wouldn't matter.Nov 17 19:40
DaemonFC[m]He gave up in Nevada and Arizona, and Georgia's Secretary of State WILL certify the results on the 20th.Nov 17 19:41
DaemonFC[m]That's still more electoral votes than Biden needs.Nov 17 19:41
DaemonFC[m]The Wisconsin state government told the Trump campaign that Wednesday by 5 PM is the only time they will accept a recount request, and that will cost Trump's campaign $8 million dollars up front.Nov 17 19:42
DaemonFC[m]So it'll cost $8 million, they double check it real quick, and then they still certify that Biden won.Nov 17 19:42
DaemonFC[m]This is absolutely pointless.Nov 17 19:42
MinceR 17 19:44
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - BlankNov 17 19:44
schestowitzDaemonFC[m]: you may be missing the more pressing newsNov 17 19:55
schestowitz “A range of senior advisers dissuaded the president from moving ahead with a military strike. The advisers — including Vice President Mike Pence; Secretary of State Mike Pompeo; Christopher C. Miller, the acting defense secretary; and Gen. Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff — warned that a strike against Iran’s facilities could easily escalate into a broader conflict in the last weeks of Mr. Nov 17 19:55
schestowitzTrump’s presidency.” 17 19:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Trump Sought Options for Attacking Iran to Stop Its Growing Nuclear Program - The New York TimesNov 17 19:55
schestowitzhe wants chaos Nov 17 19:55
schestowitzand if he enters war he can delay thingsNov 17 19:55
schestowitzindefinitelyNov 17 19:55
schestowitzit's an old trickNov 17 19:55
schestowitzthe "wartime president"Nov 17 19:55
schestowitzapparently gave Bush his second termNov 17 19:55
schestowitzhe cannot win fairlyNov 17 19:55
schestowitzthe coup requires extraordinary circumstancesNov 17 19:56
schestowitzand he still has a month until the electoral college does its thingNov 17 19:56
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: PinePhone – KDE Community Edition Now Available []Nov 17 20:01
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today’s #HowTos | #UNIX • 🅃🅄🅇 🄼🄰🄲🄷🄸🄽🄴🅂 ☞ []Nov 17 20:21
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Getting started with btrfs for Linux [Former headline: Forget ZFS and use Btrfs] • 🅃🅄🅇 🄼🄰🄲🄷🄸🄽🄴🅂 ☞ []Nov 17 20:40
MinceR 17 20:44
XRevan86MinceR: That's cultural appropriation.Nov 17 20:45
MinceR:>Nov 17 20:45
DaemonFC[m]He's trying to start a war because if he leaves office having plunged the middle east into chaos, Biden won't be able to do anything but that.Nov 17 20:46
DaemonFC[m]I don't think it's about staying in office, I think it's about sabotaging the next administration into having to deal with a war nobody wanted. Nov 17 20:46
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Kernel: PCH, DRM-Next, CET, H.264 • 🅃🅄🅇 🄼🄰🄲🄷🄸🄽🄴🅂 ☞ []Nov 17 20:46
DaemonFC[m]The sanctions on Iran aren't working. They're having an effect, which is to predictably prop up a regime that might have been dealt with internally by civil unrest and demanding elections and stuff.Nov 17 20:47
DaemonFC[m]But people who are starving aren't trying to throw the bastards out when they hate you more and see a stable regime as at least maybe being able to fend off an external attack.Nov 17 20:48
DaemonFC[m]I don't think that we're to the point of Belarus or anything.Nov 17 20:49
DaemonFC[m]If we were, then the election would have been "Oh everyone voted for Trump don't you know. Like 90%, even.".Nov 17 20:49
XRevan86DaemonFC[m]: Belarus' regime is something like a junta.Nov 17 20:50
MinceRcheeto hitler would need a few more terms to do that, it seemsNov 17 20:50
DaemonFC[m]He is trying to "question" an election that he obviously didn't have enough control over to completely rig.Nov 17 20:50
DaemonFC[m]And so we're not like Belarus, but it's not a far shot from it either. Nov 17 20:50
DaemonFC[m]MinceR: With two more years before another major election, I think that many states will expand vote by mail and will plan on the delays at the post office. I think the delays will go down under Biden because they can start implementing new policies and put some of the mail sorters back together.Nov 17 20:51
XRevan86For that Trump would need a military/forces apparatus that would be willing to go off the cliff with him.Nov 17 20:52
DaemonFC[m]But states that want to do mail elections can expand the window to request a ballot and receive it, and plan for it better.Nov 17 20:52
XRevan86then it'd be like Belarus'Nov 17 20:52
DaemonFC[m]I think that Illinois needs to go through the budget line by line now that this progressive tax measure failed.Nov 17 20:52
DaemonFC[m]They need to move municipal elections to either the federal presidential or midterm years, for starters.Nov 17 20:53
DaemonFC[m]That could save the counties over $20 million per year on average over the next 10 years. Nov 17 20:53
DaemonFC[m]It's not chump change. Nov 17 20:53
DaemonFC[m]Lake County's total budget is about $560 million per year.Nov 17 20:54
XRevan86Apparently the population doesn't even believe the propaganda one bit, so it's pretty much just taking it hostage.Nov 17 20:55
DaemonFC[m]So you save a couple hundred thousand a year. What's wrong with that?Nov 17 20:55
DaemonFC[m]Nobody wants to change it because it's how they got elected, of course.Nov 17 20:55
DaemonFC[m]If you bring more voters in, they may decide that they don't like you that much. You face a different electorate.Nov 17 20:56
DaemonFC[m]Besides, it's their money you're wasting anyway. So what the hell?Nov 17 20:56
DaemonFC[m]The Republican prosecutor, Mike Nerheim, was the victim of being a Republican downballot from Trump on a presidential year.Nov 17 20:56
DaemonFC[m]If this was 2018, he would have skated to another term.Nov 17 20:57
DaemonFC[m]Because the electorate in Lake County that threw out some Republicans from Congress was still more conservative than the one that came out this year and ended him.Nov 17 20:57
DaemonFC[m]There were Mike Nerheim re-election signs every 10 feet from each other in the county, it seemedNov 17 20:58
DaemonFC[m]Billboards, radio ads, a barrage of Facebook ads I heard.Nov 17 20:58
DaemonFC[m]You didn't hear a peep from Eric Rinehart and he still won by a big margin.Nov 17 20:58
DaemonFC[m]You can spend and spend and a bad candidate is still a bad candidate. Nov 17 20:58
DaemonFC[m]He not only had to run with Trump on the ballot. He had to run with the most disastrous crime stats in Lake County history and a pile up of prosecutorial failures that turned at least dozens of them loose to commit new crimes.Nov 17 21:00
DaemonFC[m]You can spend money and blame it all on Chicago as the news says all of the offenders, almost, had Lake County addresses. Nov 17 21:01
DaemonFC[m]Nobody was buying it.Nov 17 21:01
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DaemonFC[m]I'm not reading this as a failure to campaign. He was good at campaigning, not so much at doing his job, so he did better than he should have in the end, anyway.Nov 17 21:01
DaemonFC[m]I'm seeing this as a county of close to 700,000 people, which was absolutely horrified with what was going on even before Burn, Loot, and Murder sacked and pillaged their way down Lewis Avenue in Waukegan, and completely picked several entire Walmart supercenters to the bone.Nov 17 21:03
DaemonFC[m]These are the fucking assholes that mjg59 Social Justice Warrior is on Reddit to defend.Nov 17 21:03
DaemonFC[m]The people who have to live down the block from these criminals have....differing opinions than the folks who live in some ivory tower.Nov 17 21:04
DaemonFC[m]And as Bernie Sanders once said, "Nobody cares about your damned emails.".Nov 17 21:06
*chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc01:200:655e:ef87:f909:8731) has joined #techrightsNov 17 21:06
mjg59DaemonFC[m]: Uh I just spent 5 years living in downtown OaklandNov 17 21:11
mjg59I'm not sure what ivory towers you think I'm hanging around inNov 17 21:11
mjg59Three shootings on my block in the time I was thereNov 17 21:11
schestowitzwith kingly salaryNov 17 21:11
schestowitzhelps save even moar (!) $Nov 17 21:11
mjg59I was literally a block from West Oakland, where the Black Panthers were foundedNov 17 21:12
schestowitztell us when you become a gnu volunteerNov 17 21:12
schestowitzwith a salary enough just for food and rentNov 17 21:12
schestowitzmjg59: I get itNov 17 21:12
schestowitzyou are African AmericanNov 17 21:12
schestowitzLike those people who identity as such but are Irish or whateverNov 17 21:12
mjg59schestowitz: I was correcting Ryan's misconception that I'm somehow unaware of the direct impact of BLMNov 17 21:13
schestowitzsome billionaires identity as "philanthropist"Nov 17 21:13
mjg59Or have never lived somewhere impacted by poverty and social unrestNov 17 21:13
schestowitzthey are so philanthropic that they worry about taxNov 17 21:13
schestowitzbecause that tax might "hurt" their "philanthropy"Nov 17 21:13
schestowitzso stop taxing them :-)Nov 17 21:13
schestowitzantiracist posting is cost-free 17 21:14
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Linux Foundation, With Zero African-American Employees (in a Country Where 13.4% Identify as African-American), Boasts About Its “Support for the Black Community” | TechrightsNov 17 21:14
schestowitzireland unrest wasn't so much due to raceNov 17 21:14
schestowitzit was about the BritishNov 17 21:14
schestowitzand catholicismNov 17 21:14
schestowitzmore like sectarian violenceNov 17 21:14
schestowitzrather than a race issueNov 17 21:14
mjg59I have no idea what the relevance of this is, but actual religion had little to do with the history of the troubles (there were catholics and protestants on both sides of the independence movement)Nov 17 21:15
DaemonFC[m] 17 21:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-DR EVIL - I'm one crazy mofo - YouTubeNov 17 21:15
schestowitzIBM: we are "Commuinity"Nov 17 21:15
mjg59Religion was just a proxy for ethnic backgroundNov 17 21:15
schestowitz 17 21:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Open Invention Network Linux patent protection group turns 15 | ZDNetNov 17 21:15
schestowitzpatents are "communityNov 17 21:15
schestowitzsoftware patents are "Safe"Nov 17 21:16
schestowitzLove, ZDNretNov 17 21:16
schestowitz*ZDNetNov 17 21:16
schestowitzpeople are arses to each otherNov 17 21:17
schestowitzthey will always find excuses ro fightNov 17 21:17
schestowitzreligion and ethnics are surrogatesNov 17 21:17
schestowitzin the US it's politicsNov 17 21:17
DaemonFC[m]They're worried that if they pay taxes, the Useless Eaters will get food stamps and that will interfere with their plans to commit philanthropic genocide. Nov 17 21:17
schestowitzI care about how people treat the planet and species, less what book they follow etc.Nov 17 21:17
schestowitzif you help bomb people for money, I'll fight you Nov 17 21:18
schestowitzDaemonFC[m]: something like thatNov 17 21:18
schestowitzmany of the super-rich are closeted proponents of eugenicsNov 17 21:18
schestowitzor depopulation based on their selection criteriaNov 17 21:18
DaemonFC[m]Not very closeted either.Nov 17 21:18
schestowitzthe selection process may varyNov 17 21:19
schestowitzsome say use contraceptionNov 17 21:19
schestowitzsome abortionNov 17 21:19
DaemonFC[m]In the closet with the door hanging wide open. Like Gates.Nov 17 21:19
schestowitzsome don't even do it pre-birthNov 17 21:19
schestowitzbut while you're still aliveNov 17 21:19
schestowitzby shortening livesNov 17 21:19
schestowitzor by forced sterilisationNov 17 21:19
schestowitzapropos, IBM 17 21:19
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | The Full Story (With References) of IBM’s Role in a Purge of Black People and Mixed-Race Couples | TechrightsNov 17 21:20
DaemonFC[m]Yes, in Stargate SG-1, the Aschen plan to take over Earth was to make 90% of the humans sterile by promising a vaccine that would double life span.Nov 17 21:20
schestowitzWatson supported Hitler a decade later. It brought him lots of money.Nov 17 21:20
DaemonFC[m]Everyone rushed to take it and then it was too late.Nov 17 21:20
schestowitz 17 21:21
DaemonFC[m]Isn't it a bit odd that they have no experience at all with Coronavirus vaccines.Nov 17 21:21
schestowitzwho?Nov 17 21:21
DaemonFC[m]Then they cooked something up over 6 months that's "94.5% effective and very safe".Nov 17 21:21
schestowitzthey improve and act like one on TVNov 17 21:21
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Opinion: If You Advocate Population Control and You Are Yourself Doubling in One Single Generation, Then You Might be Hypocritical | TechrightsNov 17 21:21
schestowitzand they pay the TV statiobnsNov 17 21:21
schestowitzso the broadcaster play along with this 'theatrical' actNov 17 21:21
schestowitzscripted "segments"Nov 17 21:22
DaemonFC[m]People with 5 kids be all like "World's full....Get off her!".Nov 17 21:22
DaemonFC[m]:)Nov 17 21:22
schestowitzTed has 5Nov 17 21:23
schestowitzWarren 4Nov 17 21:23
schestowitzGates 3Nov 17 21:23
DaemonFC[m]"But I have better genes so I'm just trying to compensate for all of the unchecked breeding from the out of wedlock single moms in the inner city!"Nov 17 21:23
schestowitzaverage 4Nov 17 21:23
schestowitzdoubling in 20 odd yearsNov 17 21:23
schestowitzvery sustainableNov 17 21:23
schestowitzthe likelihood of early death in this class is very smallNov 17 21:23
schestowitzone kid should be enough for themNov 17 21:23
DaemonFC[m]Gonad the Barbarian's obituary said he had 18 grandchildren and 4 great grandchildren when he died 3 years ago.Nov 17 21:23
DaemonFC[m]At 59!Nov 17 21:24
schestowitzthey want heir, spare, and hareNov 17 21:24
DaemonFC[m]So there is some truth there, schestowitz Nov 17 21:24
DaemonFC[m]They're all criminals. Nov 17 21:24
schestowitzGenghis GinadNov 17 21:24
schestowitzGonadNov 17 21:24
DaemonFC[m]None of them work. They all produce meth and shit.Nov 17 21:24
DaemonFC[m]Occasional armed robbery.Nov 17 21:25
DaemonFC[m]Lots of check fraud.Nov 17 21:25
DaemonFC[m]I mean, and there's now DOZENS more because of him.Nov 17 21:25
schestowitzMaybe your mom took some meth off themNov 17 21:25
schestowitzjudging by some of the crap Madame Harome believesNov 17 21:25
schestowitzHarmoneNov 17 21:25
DaemonFC[m]Demons, long hair, and colloidal silver.Nov 17 21:25
schestowitzTrump voter(tm)Nov 17 21:26
schestowitzhow's that for a tattooNov 17 21:26
DaemonFC[m]Well, of course she is.Nov 17 21:26
DaemonFC[m]If that's not bad enough, my dad is even crazier than that.Nov 17 21:26
DaemonFC[m]Voted Trump too.Nov 17 21:26
DaemonFC[m]Filled his "study" up with porn and Deepak Chopra books.Nov 17 21:27
DaemonFC[m]Liked to attend seances, donates to Scientology.  Nov 17 21:28
DaemonFC[m]Likes incense and Dungeons and Dragons. Nov 17 21:28
DaemonFC[m]You know, my mom, when she wants to insult me, just calls me Carl.Nov 17 21:29
DaemonFC[m]I told her "GRANDMA!".Nov 17 21:29
DaemonFC[m]She stopped calling me Carl, at least.Nov 17 21:29
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Calamares and Plasma Look-and-Feel • 🅃🅄🅇 🄼🄰🄲🄷🄸🄽🄴🅂 ☞ []Nov 17 21:30
DaemonFC[m]schestowitz: There's some real characters in my family. I don't know how I didn't end up just like them, honestly. Can't be all genes.Nov 17 21:30
DaemonFC[m]You know?Nov 17 21:30
DaemonFC[m]But if you believe what eugenicists like Bill Gates are putting out, then bad genes mean bad children.Nov 17 21:31
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: $6 billion Linux deal? SUSE IPO rumored • 🅃🅄🅇 🄼🄰🄲🄷🄸🄽🄴🅂 ☞ []Nov 17 21:31
DaemonFC[m]The only thing separating them from any run down schmuck with a pair of khakis and a Walmart time clock badge is their parents were rich.Nov 17 21:31
DaemonFC[m]Started them off with the best education opportunities and lots of money and social connections.Nov 17 21:31
DaemonFC[m]When you start at the free throw line, it's a hell of a lot easier. Nov 17 21:32
schestowitz[21:27] <DaemonFC[m]> Filled his "study" up with porn and Deepak Chopra books.Nov 17 21:32
schestowitzChopra LOLNov 17 21:32
schestowitzI fought with him onlineNov 17 21:32
schestowitzlike a decade agoNov 17 21:32
DaemonFC[m]schestowitz: The big difference between making a lot of money and making a modest amount of money is that with a modest amount of money, you can't afford mistakes and inefficiencies in your operations.Nov 17 21:33
schestowitzDaemonFC[m]: no need to bed for VC >>   <DaemonFC[m]> When you start at the free throw line, it's a hell of a lot easier. Nov 17 21:33
schestowitz*begNov 17 21:33
DaemonFC[m]We live better than some of our family members who have twice (or more) income.Nov 17 21:33
vZS1The situation with Ireland might get tense again with all the Brexit madnessNov 17 21:33
schestowitzBrexshitNov 17 21:34
vZS1We already lost one young journalist not long agoNov 17 21:34
DaemonFC[m]I agree completely with Nancy Pelosi about that.Nov 17 21:34
schestowitzmaybe poltician alsoNov 17 21:34
schestowitz(Cox)Nov 17 21:34
vZS1People are quick to forgetNov 17 21:34
vZS1Possibly there too, yes. Jo Cox.Nov 17 21:34
DaemonFC[m]No US-UK trade deal if they renege on their agreement with Northern Ireland.Nov 17 21:35
schestowitzDaemonFC[m]: Pelosi net worth is very highNov 17 21:35
DaemonFC[m]In fact, I'd go further and have the Treasury sanction them for it.Nov 17 21:35
schestowitzoh, brexit would be hurt indeed by biden winNov 17 21:35
DaemonFC[m]It's the same sort of attitude as China has about Hong Kong, just take over and then poison them to death. Nov 17 21:35
schestowitzi ddin't even pause to think of thatNov 17 21:35
schestowitzbrexit was publicly promoted by trumpNov 17 21:35
schestowitza CANDIDATE trumpNov 17 21:35
schestowitzwith his pseudo-populismNov 17 21:36
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DaemonFC[m]I would come down on them for violating the Good Friday accord (even though that didn't go nearly far enough for autonomy), and I would come down hard.Nov 17 21:36
DaemonFC[m]And I really really hope the Democrats do that. Nov 17 21:36
DaemonFC[m]You think just Brexit is going to ruin your finances.Nov 17 21:37
DaemonFC[m]Wait until the sanctions start. Nov 17 21:37
DaemonFC[m]Sanctions are better suited to inflict upon people who were used to an abundance in the first place. Nov 17 21:38
DaemonFC[m]Who still have elections.Nov 17 21:38
MinceR17 215205 < XRevan86> For that Trump would need a military/forces apparatus that would be willing to go off the cliff with him.Nov 17 21:45
MinceRmaybe that's what the whole polarization deal is aboutNov 17 21:45
XRevan86MinceR: No, that's not enough at all.Nov 17 21:46
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XRevan86MinceR: You need something more… concrete.Nov 17 21:48
schestowitz[21:44] [Notice] -viera to #boycottnovell-social- Dr. Roy Schestowitz (罗伊): #SJVN pushing #microsoft #propaganda and #proprietarySoftware with back doors in #zdnet again []Nov 17 21:50
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-pleroma.siteNov 17 21:50
schestowitz[21:45] [Notice] -viera to #boycottnovell-social- Dr. Roy Schestowitz (罗伊): If I started writing "$JVN" people would say it's immature, just as they try to paint critics of #microsoft crimes as children []Nov 17 21:50
schestowitz[21:47] [Notice] -viera to #boycottnovell-social- Dr. Roy Schestowitz (罗伊): SJVN: "I know it's still hard for some of you to wrap your minds around it, but Microsoft..."I know it's still hard for some of you to wrap your minds around it, but Microsoft pays a big portion of SJVN's salary.#boycottZDNet []Nov 17 21:50
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers • 🅃🅄🅇 🄼🄰🄲🄷🄸🄽🄴🅂 ☞ []Nov 17 21:51
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Mozilla Firefox 83 Now Available for Download – What’s New []Nov 17 22:08
DaemonFC[m]Playing around with the Snap of Chromium.Nov 17 22:10
DaemonFC[m]I don't see what all the fuss is about. It works and behaves identically to before.Nov 17 22:11
DaemonFC[m]With the bonus of being sandboxed by snap.Nov 17 22:11
MinceRfinally you can chromium while depending not only on google, but also canonicalNov 17 22:11
MinceRand maybe also ibmNov 17 22:12
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vZS1For most software, you can just make a new user and group and just build the source in there. Keep the stuff in that user's home directory.Nov 17 22:30
vZS1If you mess up, you can just try again.Nov 17 22:30
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: IBM/Red Hat Leftovers • 🅃🅄🅇 🄼🄰🄲🄷🄸🄽🄴🅂 ☞ []Nov 17 22:31
schestowitzyou end up trusting orgs and people based on track recordNov 17 22:32
schestowitzthose with clean track records don't wish to tarnish thatNov 17 22:32
schestowitzthose who have a past that's rogue, like Microsoft, will never be trustedNov 17 22:32
schestowitzbut they can bribe the media to pretend otherwiseNov 17 22:32
schestowitze.g. Microsoft "fights fort developers"Nov 17 22:32
vZS1I don't even trust myself most of the time. I do a lot of dumb stuffNov 17 22:33
schestowitzmeaning, Microsoft fights to keep devs coding for GITHUB... i.e. for itselfNov 17 22:33
schestowitzjust published 17 22:33
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | The Stench Follows and Spreads: Another UPC Lie Now Followed by Lies From the Government of Germany | TechrightsNov 17 22:33
DaemonFC[m]Georgia says it will certify Biden's win by Friday, which means the 16 electoral votes are locked in.Nov 17 22:34
DaemonFC[m]The Trump campaign pretty much pulled out of Georgia.Nov 17 22:34
schestowitzso he can start a warNov 17 22:35
schestowitzor golfNov 17 22:35
schestowitzor shoot himself with a revolverNov 17 22:35
schestowitzafter raping his daughter or somethingNov 17 22:35
DaemonFC[m]The sooner the states certify their results, the sooner this charade that Trump will sue his way back into the White House is finished.Nov 17 22:35
schestowitzeither way, he won't leave the WH eastNov 17 22:35
schestowitzeasyNov 17 22:35
schestowitzhe'll cause more trouble, somehowNov 17 22:35
schestowitz"there's always a way..."Nov 17 22:36
vZS1Don't forget all the junk they bundle in to spy on youNov 17 22:37
vZS1TelemetryNov 17 22:38
vZS1UXNov 17 22:38
vZS1I wrote the skeleton of my http server today in 41 lines of Go. Going to use other tools to generate the pages (files).Nov 17 22:39
vZS1I built the ipfs bot for the TR node in well under 100 lines of shell codeNov 17 22:40
vZS1What we have in our hands in the wholesale duping of usersNov 17 22:41
vZS1on our hands is*Nov 17 22:41
vZS1All thes Nov 17 22:42
vZS1All these frameworks are just a way for GAFAM to absorb your work into their ecosystemNov 17 22:43
vZS1Screw compatibility. Build what works for youNov 17 22:43
vZS1Follow standards that really matter. Not bullshitteryNov 17 22:44
vZS1TCP and UDP are standards. Some half-baked data structure built on top of JSON isn'tNov 17 22:48
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, Phoronix did an article where he benchmarked Windows 10 with the default telemetry and the most you could turn it off.Nov 17 22:51
DaemonFC[m]It was like an 8% drag on the system in the default state.Nov 17 22:51
DaemonFC[m]8% to run all the spyware.Nov 17 22:51
DaemonFC[m]Obviously no user would want 8% of their computer's performance to go away so Microsoft could spy on them, but that's what happens.Nov 17 22:52
DaemonFC[m]And 8% is basically the CPU performance difference between this year's CPU and next year's of the same price point.Nov 17 22:52
DaemonFC[m]So Windows is downgrading your CPU to last year's model with the spyware.Nov 17 22:52
vZS1Don't forget all the bandwidthNov 17 22:52
DaemonFC[m]The electric company says I'm using about 7 kilowatt hours per day.Nov 17 22:54
DaemonFC[m]That's actually not too bad.Nov 17 22:54
vZS1I turn off everything after I'm doneNov 17 22:54
DaemonFC[m]There's still a fuckton of Linux tunables on power consumption that are off by default but which have worked fine for years now on Skylake.Nov 17 22:54
DaemonFC[m]mjg59: Any comment on that?Nov 17 22:55
vZS1The only thing that stays on are stuff like the fridge, my Rpi, couple other microcontrollersNov 17 22:55
DaemonFC[m]You run powertop autotune and flip them on at boot and it all works fine.Nov 17 22:55
DaemonFC[m]And the difference is like 30% better power consumption than the Linux defaults.Nov 17 22:55
DaemonFC[m]I guess nobody at Intel is worried about, you know, user experience or the environment or anything. Nov 17 22:56
DaemonFC[m]On Ubuntu, they have powertop, but no systemd service for it, so I straight up copied the one from Fedora. Nov 17 22:56
DaemonFC[m]Obviously, 30% less power means I pay Communist Edision 30% less to run my laptop.Nov 17 22:57
DaemonFC[m]*EdisonNov 17 22:58
DaemonFC[m]There's no other way to put what's going on with energy in Illinois than Communism, really.Nov 17 22:58
DaemonFC[m]The state gave ComEd $2.3 billion dollars in one go with the Future Energy Jobs Act, then once the ink was dry, ComEd threatened to shut down two of the nuclear reactors the state "saved" unless there was a second bailout bill, back to back.Nov 17 23:00
DaemonFC[m] 17 23:00
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Without another bailout, Exelon plans to close two Illinois nuclear plants next year - Chicago TribuneNov 17 23:00
DaemonFC[m]Then after it came to light that a lot of that was direct cash bribes to Speaker Mike Madigan and other Democrats, (still no indictments....hmmmm), ComEd pointed out how much lower your energy bill was after they took it from you out of the tax money the state doesn't actually have, and thus borrowed at 6% like usual.Nov 17 23:01
DaemonFC[m]Of course they want to invest in technologies that have an unintended side effect of lowering CO2 emissions.Nov 17 23:03
DaemonFC[m]The trick is to get you to pay for the investments so that they can keep the money they save by not generating that amount of power.Nov 17 23:04
DaemonFC[m]By that logic, the state should have paid for my car repair bills because I picked up a few miles per gallon in the process.Nov 17 23:04
DaemonFC[m]Wish I could do some of that there lobbying I keep hearing about. Nov 17 23:04
mjg59DaemonFC[m]: Because they *don't* work in all cases and they cause data corruption in the cases they don't workNov 17 23:06
mjg59Because, again, Intel won't tell us how to figure out and apply the appropriate policyNov 17 23:06
DaemonFC[m]I've never experienced any data corruption on this system with it all on.Nov 17 23:07
vZS1DaemonFC[m]: if you want to look for the stats without relying on tools, have a look at "Documentation/ABI/testing/sysfs-class-power" in the Linux Git repoNov 17 23:07
DaemonFC[m]Although I think forcing panel self refresh does taint the kernel. Oh well.Nov 17 23:07
vZS1A lot of the stuff there isn't in a lot of tools because they're fairly new data objectsNov 17 23:08
mjg59DaemonFC[m]: Right. It'll work fine on most systems. And on the ones it doesn't work, it'll appear to be fine until suddenly your data is gone.Nov 17 23:08
vZS1Quite a few DOs from 2020Nov 17 23:08
DaemonFC[m]Uh, Windows causes a lot of data corruption because it crashes all the time and that's just what it does.Nov 17 23:08
mjg59So we can't do it by defaultNov 17 23:08
DaemonFC[m]I'd say Linux has been remarkable compared to that.Nov 17 23:08
mjg59I tried multiple times to come up with an implementation that worked for everybodyNov 17 23:08
mjg59And I failedNov 17 23:09
mjg59So we stick to the safe defaultsNov 17 23:09
DaemonFC[m]<mjg59 "DaemonFC: Right. It'll work fine"> Well, 4 years, dozens of kernel versions later... Nope. No corruption.Nov 17 23:09
mjg59Congratulations, you have one of the systems where it's fineNov 17 23:09
mjg59Unless you swap out your SSD, in which case there's a chance it'll stop being fineNov 17 23:09
DaemonFC[m]The only time I had to do anything at all untowards to my system was when Fedora pulled in those bad kernels.Nov 17 23:10
mjg59Don't really know what else to say hereNov 17 23:10
DaemonFC[m]The ones where Intel backed out GPU power management completely for an entire series. Nov 17 23:10
DaemonFC[m]So, that was a big factor in ditching Fedora.Nov 17 23:10
DaemonFC[m]They don't even care if it's broken. They'll knowingly ship crap and tell you oh well.Nov 17 23:10
mjg59Panel self refresh won't tend to cause data corruption, but if it's on and the panel doesn't actually support it then you'll just get a screen that'll randomly go blankNov 17 23:10
DaemonFC[m]Of course that was late last year so Kubuntu 20.04 wasn't even branched at the time iirc.Nov 17 23:11
mjg59So it's only enabled when the panel explicitly says it's supported and claims to have timing parameters that match the specNov 17 23:11
mjg59Some panels lie about that and will work fine if you force it onNov 17 23:11
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mjg59But we can't do that by defaultNov 17 23:11
mjg59We can't change the ASPM policy by default because some network hardware will start corrupting packetsNov 17 23:11
mjg59So we go with whatever the firmware set in the first placeNov 17 23:12
DaemonFC[m]<mjg59 "Panel self refresh won't tend to"> Last time I had screen glitches was kernel 4.8 which was fine because it also didn't have a driver for my wifi until 4.9.Nov 17 23:12
DaemonFC[m]At the time, PSR also didn't work, (at least with Wayland, it froze after GDM loaded, but with X it didn't.) Now it seems to work either way, but I'm on KDE where I'm on X again anyway due to that. Nov 17 23:13
DaemonFC[m]But oh well because Wayland is junk.Nov 17 23:13
DaemonFC[m]For practical, daily use, it's junk.Nov 17 23:13
DaemonFC[m]Nobody cares what it can do if it ruins Wine and a bunch of other stuff too.Nov 17 23:13
MinceR 17 23:14
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Microsoft reveals Pluton, a custom security chip built into Intel, AMD and Qualcomm processors – TechCrunchNov 17 23:14
MinceRas if we didn't have enough hardware backdoors alreadyNov 17 23:14
DaemonFC[m]Again, Fedora knowingly ships broken junk and then includes an X11 session "for no particular reason and because Wayland works great".Nov 17 23:14
DaemonFC[m]These Fedora people are like listening to Chicago politicians. Nov 17 23:15
DaemonFC[m]All we need is another tax increase in the middle of the fires and looting and we'll be a world class city again.Nov 17 23:15
DaemonFC[m]There really is a big difference between Illinois and Chicago, I've learned.Nov 17 23:17
DaemonFC[m]At least nobody in Waukegan (yet) has promised a city stimulus check to illegal immigrants funded by a property tax increase.Nov 17 23:17
DaemonFC[m]mjg59: Should really consider Chicago. He can practice what he preaches. While they're raising the bridges to slow down Burn, Loot, and Murder, and Kim Foxx (recently re-elected by Burn, Loot, and Murder voters) lets them go, he can pay taxes that are spiraling out of control.Nov 17 23:18
MinceRfits cancerd pretty wellNov 17 23:18
DaemonFC[m]For all sorts of Social Justice Warrior-ey things. Nov 17 23:19
MinceRmore broken junk to go with the rest of the broken junkNov 17 23:19
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DaemonFC[m]I wonder who'll buy the Trump building out of the bankruptcy sale.Nov 17 23:19
DaemonFC[m]Maybe they finally will get his name off it. Nov 17 23:20
MinceRi've read that it would just go to deutsche bankNov 17 23:20
MinceRwho are also assholesNov 17 23:20
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, they're the ones who propped up this loser to begin with.Nov 17 23:20
DaemonFC[m]Made it look like he knew anything about running a business that makes money.Nov 17 23:20
MinceRthey're also the ones who pay the useless overpaid suits who decided that people who work from home should be taxed better to punish them for not having to deal with some of the shit in lifeNov 17 23:21
MinceRi think deutsche bank should be taxed extra insteadNov 17 23:21
MinceRthey can apparently afford to come up with useless bullshit like thisNov 17 23:21
DaemonFC[m]I supported Bernie Sanders in two primaries, back to back, watched him lose twice.Nov 17 23:21
DaemonFC[m]Clinton was such a weak candidate that it not only made Sanders look like he had a lot of relative support, but it also made Trump win in a photo finish despite how awful he is.Nov 17 23:22
DaemonFC[m]I don't really care if my decision is popular or if I'm backing someone that I think most people will agree with.Nov 17 23:23
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XRevan86It was a good try by Bernie, but the party just didn't like him.Nov 17 23:23
DaemonFC[m]I think that the majority is frequently wrong and disastrously so, and there is a mountain of evidence to support that. Nov 17 23:23
mjg59DaemonFC[m]: The violent crime and homicide rates in Oakland are higher than they are in Chicago. What, exactly, do you think I haven't experienced?Nov 17 23:26
CrystalMathMinceR: here in Serbia (and also in Kosovo) we have Lake TrumpNov 17 23:27
CrystalMathMinceR: it's a lake right on the borderNov 17 23:28
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CrystalMathit was named after the man who was a great intermediary, and helped us establish air travel between Belgrade and Pristina, as well as resolve many major disputesNov 17 23:28
CrystalMathand yes i'm talking about US president Donald J. TrumpNov 17 23:29
CrystalMaththe same man who made the US energy-independent for the first time since 1957Nov 17 23:29
CrystalMaththe first US president to visit North KoreaNov 17 23:29
CrystalMaththe president who pardoned black people who were unfairly arrestedNov 17 23:30
CrystalMaththe republican who got more republican votes than any republican before himNov 17 23:31
CrystalMatherrNov 17 23:31
CrystalMathmore BLACK votesNov 17 23:31
CrystalMathi messed up that sentence worse than BidenNov 17 23:31
CrystalMaththe republican who got more african american votes than any republican before himNov 17 23:31
CrystalMath(to clarify)Nov 17 23:32
CrystalMaththe president who reduced the unemployment rate, built up a strong economy, pulled troops out of many foreign nationsNov 17 23:35
CrystalMathhow can i not say that Trump was the greatest president the US had in the last 30 years?Nov 17 23:35
DaemonFC[m] 17 23:35
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Senate Blocks President Trump's Controversial Nominee To The Federal Reserve Board : NPRNov 17 23:35
CrystalMathand that's crappy, Judy Shelton is a wonderful candidateNov 17 23:36
CrystalMathshe supports the gold standardNov 17 23:37
CrystalMathas do iNov 17 23:37
DaemonFC[m]The US could sell all the gold in Fort Knox and not pay off 1% of the debt with it.Nov 17 23:41
DaemonFC[m]Trump piled on more to the debt than every president from George Washington to Barack Obama, and it only took him 1 term.Nov 17 23:42
DaemonFC[m]Creditors are openly concerned about the US falling into sovereign default because of Trump.Nov 17 23:42
DaemonFC[m]So they may not lend soon anyway.Nov 17 23:42
DaemonFC[m]The last thing we need is another crank who will be around for 14 years after Trump is gone.Nov 17 23:43
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DaemonFC[m]After the recess, Senator Elect Mark Kelly (D-AZ) will take his seat.Nov 17 23:45
DaemonFC[m]So he'll be seated in December, not January.Nov 17 23:45
CrystalMathfiat currency is crapNov 17 23:45
CrystalMaththe gold standard is absolutely neededNov 17 23:46
DaemonFC[m]So the Republicans will be down one seat very soon.Nov 17 23:46
DaemonFC[m]There isn't enough gold in the entire world to represent the American economy.Nov 17 23:46
DaemonFC[m]Much less the global economyNov 17 23:46
CrystalMathmaybe because a lot of that economy is a lieNov 17 23:46
DaemonFC[m]Nixon suspended Bretton Woods because it was killing us.Nov 17 23:46
DaemonFC[m]Other countries were demanding our gold reserves and it would have all been gone before the 1970s were out if he hadn't stopped them.Nov 17 23:47
DaemonFC[m]It was also increasingly becoming outdated anyway.Nov 17 23:47
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DaemonFC[m]We're not living in some kind of medieval barter economy.Nov 17 23:48
DaemonFC[m]The gold standard was mostly over long before the Nixon Shock.Nov 17 23:49
DaemonFC[m]FDR realized it had to stop.Nov 17 23:49
DaemonFC[m]FDR was popular enough that he would have kept winning elections as long as he lived.Nov 17 23:49
DaemonFC[m]Trump didn't have a majority of the popular vote the first time and lost both the popular and electoral vote this time around.Nov 17 23:50
CrystalMathFDR was crapNov 17 23:50
DaemonFC[m]He's Republican Carter at this point. Nov 17 23:50
DaemonFC[m]Except he's not even a generally decent guy.Nov 17 23:50
DaemonFC[m]They'll get over Trump fast.Nov 17 23:50
MinceRRepliCarter?Nov 17 23:51
DaemonFC[m]They say they won't, but in 2024 they won't even want to talk about him anymore. Nov 17 23:51
CrystalMaththen you won't see me talking about republicans, eitherNov 17 23:54
CrystalMathi never cared for fascist Mitt Romney, nor Bush the butcherNov 17 23:54
CrystalMathif there's nobody like Trump there's no hope for the USNov 17 23:54
CrystalMathoh, and i forgot McCain the criminally insane (and now deceased)Nov 17 23:55
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