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IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Wednesday, November 18, 2020

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CrystalMathand what is this crap? 18 00:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Obama says internet, social media are threat to democracy - VoxNov 18 00:03
XRevan86What's the tl;dr? They kind of are, but they also aren't, depends on the angle.Nov 18 00:03
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CrystalMathwell nothing, Obama says that the fact that people live in information bubbles is a problemNov 18 00:06
CrystalMathbut he also blames big tech for itNov 18 00:06
CrystalMathi don't see howNov 18 00:06
CrystalMathi mean, i hate big tech, but is QAnon their fault? no wayNov 18 00:07
MinceRblaming objects for the faults of humans is a big thing in uhmericaNov 18 00:08
MinceRand also elsewhere on this planetNov 18 00:08
XRevan86Well, there's no regulation that would solve "personalisation". Maybe something that stricten data collection on people, that would kill it off.Nov 18 00:09
MinceR(cat) 18 00:10
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4826830)Nov 18 00:10
XRevan86* strictensNov 18 00:10
MinceRwhich is why i'd just personally kill evildoers instead of screwing around with regulations :>Nov 18 00:10
XRevan86MinceR: Isn't that the same thing, except with executions as penalty?Nov 18 00:12
MinceRno, i'd do it without a stateNov 18 00:12
MinceRstates have failed, it's time to stop forcing themNov 18 00:12
XRevan86mother anarchy, got itNov 18 00:12
CrystalMathXRevan86: you want to strengthen surveillance?Nov 18 00:13
XRevan86CrystalMath: The opposite. I think anti-surveillance regulation can fix the bubble effect %).Nov 18 00:14
XRevan86but it's also something they won't be willing to doNov 18 00:14
CrystalMaththat won't stop people going to 4chanNov 18 00:14
CrystalMathand talking about the latest UFO Obamanton landed from to kidnap children and make cigarettes out of themNov 18 00:15
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CrystalMath(that's a joking reference to pizzagate :P)Nov 18 00:16
CrystalMath(as well as other conspiracies)Nov 18 00:16
XRevan86CrystalMath: Yea, but if someone goes to 4chan then they kind of know what kind of rabbit hole they're diving into.Nov 18 00:16
XRevan86I can't believe I managed to write it in such an ugly way but still technically correctly.Nov 18 00:18
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TechrightsBot-trHello World! I'm TechrightsBot-tr running phIRCe v0.77Nov 18 01:09
oiaohmCrystalMath:   This is where things get tricky.Nov 18 01:11
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video | Ars TechnicaNov 18 01:11
oiaohmThere is a legal responsibility on those providing content in most countries that is in the printed press or on free to air tv to be based on facts..Nov 18 01:14
oiaohmOf course with Australia carrier laws this does technically go to anyone hosting stuff in Australia on ISPs as well.Nov 18 01:15
oiaohmThe reality is as the laws of most countries catch up with the internet places like 4chan will either go away or have todo some level of content moderation.Nov 18 01:16
CrystalMaththat would be badNov 18 01:16
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oiaohmThere are a lot of things you are not allowed todo in public spaces.Nov 18 01:16
CrystalMathalso 4chan does have moderationNov 18 01:17
oiaohmAnd if the courts rule the internet to be a public space there will be quite a bit of restriction.Nov 18 01:17
oiaohmwhen 4chan started it did not have that much modernation.  Its been growing it as the laws catching up.Nov 18 01:17
CrystalMathwell the big problem is pedophilia, which had to be eliminated from 4chanNov 18 01:18
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CrystalMathunderstandablyNov 18 01:18
oiaohmThat was they eliminate it or be totally blocked everywhere.Nov 18 01:18
oiaohmBut that was really the start of law forced moderation.Nov 18 01:19
oiaohmThere are other things other than pedophilia that the laws most countries say you cannot be doing either.Nov 18 01:19
CrystalMathof course, howeverNov 18 01:19
oiaohmStill need to be moderated out.Nov 18 01:19
CrystalMaththe problem will be when governments start abusing thisNov 18 01:20
CrystalMathto silence criticism and stuffNov 18 01:20
CrystalMathwhich is why we must fight for free speechNov 18 01:20
oiaohmThere is risk of government abuse I do agree.Nov 18 01:20
CrystalMathactually, the risk to free speech is the greatest risk to democracyNov 18 01:20
oiaohmBut there are things like videod murder and other horrible things that need to be restricted.   This includes people providing fake cures and other horrible things that cause deaths.Nov 18 01:21
oiaohmThe problem is the blance.Nov 18 01:21
CrystalMathi would disagree with protecting people from themselvesNov 18 01:21
oiaohmThere is a list of things that need to be moderated out of existance because they are not safe/good for anyone.Nov 18 01:21
CrystalMatha person's will should be manipulated with informationNov 18 01:22
oiaohmProblem is false information and correct information can manipulate a person equally.Nov 18 01:22
CrystalMathwell, that's trueNov 18 01:23
CrystalMathbut many things are also not clearly true / falseNov 18 01:23
oiaohmThere is also the problem of desensitisation.   Like with the process of desensitisation you can make it easier to kill.    This is why some image times on tv are mandated sensored by law.  Nov 18 01:24
CrystalMaththere's also the problem of people being overly sensitiveNov 18 01:24
CrystalMathwhich is a huge problem nowadaysNov 18 01:24
oiaohmThere is also the reverse as well.Nov 18 01:25
CrystalMathonly for some thingsNov 18 01:25
oiaohmIts sensitivity  is a balance.    We don't want people mega sensitive to stuff and we don't want them totally insesistive to differenet bad stuff.Nov 18 01:26
CrystalMathi'd say people are really densitized to pornographic stuff, but also too sensitive to criticism and different opinionsNov 18 01:26
CrystalMath*desensitizedNov 18 01:27
oiaohmSome of the pornographic densitized links to people ignoring domestic volicence events that have lead to death.Nov 18 01:28
CrystalMathmaybe? i'm not sure what the link is thoughNov 18 01:28
CrystalMathi'd rather focus on exposing people to different opinionsNov 18 01:28
CrystalMathhaving them think for themselvesNov 18 01:28
CrystalMathbe more philosophicalNov 18 01:29
CrystalMathnot just listen to othersNov 18 01:29
MinceRwe could prevent people from being desensitized to anything by removing their sensory organsNov 18 01:29
oiaohmHaving different options is not that useful either.    Remember you have people arguing points like flat earth that really basic tests prove as false.Nov 18 01:29
CrystalMathoiaohm: so what?Nov 18 01:30
CrystalMathi know a flat earth theoristsNov 18 01:30
CrystalMath*theoristNov 18 01:30
oiaohmThen you have people doing the same things with medical stuff.Nov 18 01:30
oiaohmThat is just as simple to disprove.Nov 18 01:30
CrystalMathand i don't really mind his opinion, even if i disagreeNov 18 01:30
CrystalMaththat's the pointNov 18 01:30
CrystalMathi think you need to learn this as wellNov 18 01:30
CrystalMaththe fact that it's simple to disprove means that most people will believe the truthNov 18 01:31
CrystalMathbut a certain % will be dumb or contrarianNov 18 01:31
CrystalMaththere's also things like religionNov 18 01:31
oiaohmAnd that % of dumb could come the president of the USA.Nov 18 01:31
CrystalMathoiaohm: how, if it's a small number?Nov 18 01:32
MinceRlooks like that % is close to 50Nov 18 01:32
oiaohmTrump believes a stack of stuff known to be 100 percent false.Nov 18 01:32
CrystalMathlike what?Nov 18 01:32
MinceRlike that vaccines don't work but instead cause autismNov 18 01:33
CrystalMathhe doesn't actually believe in injecting bleach or light, he just asked a silly questionNov 18 01:33
MinceRor like that finland is part of russiaNov 18 01:33
CrystalMathwhat?Nov 18 01:33
CrystalMathwhen did he say that?Nov 18 01:33
MinceRno, he let his idiocy slipNov 18 01:33
MinceRand later he tried to claim it was a jokeNov 18 01:33
MinceRno one laughedNov 18 01:33
oiaohmCrystalMath: he pushed a drug that all the results said did not work.Nov 18 01:33
oiaohmNot much different to inject bleach really.Nov 18 01:33
CrystalMathoiaohm: i'm quite sure someone else told him about hydroxychloroquineNov 18 01:33
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CrystalMathit didn't come from himNov 18 01:33
MinceRwell if someone else says it, it's got to be trueNov 18 01:34
MinceRlike the Earth being flat, for exampleNov 18 01:34
oiaohmSo CrystalMath he had a idiot feeding him invalid information and he was running with it right.Nov 18 01:34
oiaohmThis is the problem with false information.Nov 18 01:34
CrystalMathit probably came from a doctorNov 18 01:35
MinceRthe problem is not with false information but with stupid peopleNov 18 01:35
CrystalMathone of the so-called expertsNov 18 01:35
MinceRwell, they hand doctorates out to just about anyone nowadaysNov 18 01:35
oiaohmAgain doctor who has been bribed to provide false information.Nov 18 01:36
CrystalMaththere are also papers about hydroxychloroquine providing some protection against virusesNov 18 01:36
oiaohmNo proper peer review of information.Nov 18 01:36
MinceRthere's an alleged physician who acts as the speaker for the nazi government of hungary in COVID-19-related matters who said things like "masks don't protect you from the virus" and "you can't stop the pandemic with testing"Nov 18 01:36
CrystalMathnot in the case of SARS-CoV-2Nov 18 01:36
oiaohmAll those papers after proper peer review have turned out to be false.Nov 18 01:36
MinceRthere's another nazi in hungary who has a medical doctorate who claimed that people get ill because they violate the ten commandmentsNov 18 01:36
CrystalMathoiaohm: are you sure?Nov 18 01:37
oiaohmhydrooxychloroquine does not work against viruses at all with proper reviewed studies.Nov 18 01:37
CrystalMathoiaohm: because malaria's entry into cells is very similar to a virus'sNov 18 01:37
CrystalMathfor example, both malaria and influenzavirus bind to hemagluttininNov 18 01:37
CrystalMathSARS-CoV-2 is different as it binds to ACE2Nov 18 01:37
MinceR(that second nazi i mentioned is a minister, though he sucks so hard at his job even his own government started working around him)Nov 18 01:37
CrystalMathinfluenzavirus can also bind to neuraminidaseNov 18 01:38
oiaohm hydrooxychloroquine in fact works against  malaria itself.   Not the redblood cells.Nov 18 01:38
CrystalMaththere are other coronaviruses that bind to N-acetyl-neuraminic acid receptors (NANAR)Nov 18 01:38
oiaohmAll the proper studides  hydrooxychloroquine just does not work at all with a virus case increases risk of deaht.Nov 18 01:39
CrystalMathit's possible that there's a riskNov 18 01:39
oiaohmOne of the catches with  hydrooxychloroquine is that is used to treat autoimmune diseases.   So in case of virus infection you need immune system to work better.    hydrooxychloroquine is the exact other direction.Nov 18 01:41
CrystalMathwell, there's also immune overreactionNov 18 01:41
superkuhBinding to ace2 is just the start, then extracellular proteases cleave the spike protein and the hydrophobic region that acts as an anchor for membrane fusion comes into play.Nov 18 01:41
superkuhGet too much of that going on and you get not only viral membranes fusing, but cells fusing.Nov 18 01:42
superkuhAnd that leads to chronic inflammation.Nov 18 01:42
oiaohmCrystalMath: there are a few different ways to treat immune over reaction.    hydrooxychloroquine reduces anti-bodies in general way.     So you reduce the immune over reaction but you also reduce the immune system means to stop the virus so the virus goes on to kill more cells.Nov 18 01:44
oiaohmAutoimmune disease crippling the immune system because you have no better treatment can be fine while the person does not have any other infection.Nov 18 01:45
oiaohmWhen in infected with a virus any 100% immune system crippling path is not right.Nov 18 01:46
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Firefox 84 Promises to Finally Enable WebRender By Default on Linux/X11 โ€ข ๐Ÿ…ƒ๐Ÿ…„๐Ÿ…‡ ๐Ÿ„ผ๐Ÿ„ฐ๐Ÿ„ฒ๐Ÿ„ท๐Ÿ„ธ๐Ÿ„ฝ๐Ÿ„ด๐Ÿ…‚ โ˜ž []Nov 18 01:49
CrystalMathsorry i was reading about the syncitial pneumocytes from COVID-19Nov 18 01:49
CrystalMath*syncytialNov 18 01:49
oiaohmCrystalMath: It is believed that hydroxychloroquine interferes with the communication of cells in the immune system.  << This is what the studies appear to show hydrooxychloroquine doing.   This is a immune system communication disruption.Nov 18 01:49
oiaohmBasically able to stall out the immune system from fighting back at all.Nov 18 01:50
CrystalMathlikely SARS-CoV-1 is the sameNov 18 01:50
CrystalMathanyway i think it's clear to everyone at this point that hydroxychloroquine is not a cureNov 18 01:51
oiaohmand its not a treatment either.Nov 18 01:52
oiaohmbecause it adjust totally the wrong thing.Nov 18 01:52
oiaohmThe fact it was known to adjust totally the wrong thing was documented before the Covid-19 with athrisis people being on hydroxychloroquine having higher risks of getting the common cold and having adverise effects.Nov 18 01:53
oiaohmWhat happens when fake information not backed by proper data gets into the system.Nov 18 01:54
CrystalMathin the end, it was not Trump who gave people this drug, but doctors in hospitalsNov 18 01:54
CrystalMathsometimes the entire world can be deceived, evenNov 18 01:54
oiaohmIts never normally the entire world.Nov 18 01:55
oiaohmBut a large enough can be to cause extra deaths.Nov 18 01:55
CrystalMathand don't forget this was a new virus back in marchNov 18 01:56
CrystalMathpeople were desperateNov 18 01:56
CrystalMaththey wanted to try anythingNov 18 01:56
oiaohmExactly the dangerous problem with false information getting out.Nov 18 01:56
CrystalMathbut we didn't really know for sure that it's falseNov 18 01:56
oiaohmWhen humans are desperate they don't make best choices.Nov 18 01:57
CrystalMathdesperate situations happenNov 18 01:57
CrystalMathit's no use to judge from hindsightNov 18 01:57
oiaohmAustralia blocked hydroxychloroquine studies here before it was given to anyone.Nov 18 01:57
oiaohmBecause of the requirement of proper peer review information.Nov 18 01:57
CrystalMathahNov 18 01:57
CrystalMathwell, that's being really carefulNov 18 01:58
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CrystalMathin other scenarios that can be bad tooNov 18 01:58
oiaohmMore often than not its bad not to be careful.Nov 18 01:58
oiaohmIs a rare scenario with medical where that level of careful does not work.Nov 18 01:58
CrystalMathwell against ebola many experimental drugs were givenNov 18 01:59
CrystalMathout of desperationNov 18 01:59
CrystalMathand there was one that had some successNov 18 01:59
oiaohmLot did pass peer review of being possible with the ebola tests.Nov 18 02:00
oiaohmPossible and working are totally different things.Nov 18 02:00
oiaohmThe one that had some success with ebola did pass peer review to be possible before any usage.Nov 18 02:00
oiaohmevery one in the ebola experimental drugs that did not pass peer review totally failed.Nov 18 02:01
CrystalMatheither way i think we went way off topicNov 18 02:02
CrystalMathi still stand by freedom of speechNov 18 02:02
oiaohmThere is a handful of rare exceptions Lorenzo's Oil case where peer review says is dangerous.   Yet it was the right treatment.   These are rare and due to the risk you want to start with a single test subject.Nov 18 02:03
oiaohmWhen I say handful over the complete human medicial history there are 4 cases.Nov 18 02:04
oiaohmThe odds of you being right doing something not peer reviewed as possible is almost zero with medicial.Nov 18 02:05
oiaohmSame with construction and many other fields.Nov 18 02:05
oiaohmCrystalMath: freedom of speech is one thing false representation is another.   You can say anything and state that you have no evidence that its true and should not be used as true without more tests as in a untested theory.Nov 18 02:07
oiaohmProblem is you get a lot of people making stuff out as absolutely true that is without question false and this does kill people.Nov 18 02:08
oiaohmFree-speech should not be without a duty of care on your part.Nov 18 02:09
CrystalMathoiaohm: well the more you prevent people from thinking, the stupider they will beNov 18 02:09
CrystalMathit will just increase the problemNov 18 02:09
CrystalMathpeople need to be forced to think for themselvesNov 18 02:09
CrystalMathand the only way is to let them get burned when they do something dumbNov 18 02:09
oiaohmDoes not work that way.Nov 18 02:09
CrystalMathlike that flat earth guy who spent $30,000 building a gyroscope to prove the earth doesn't rotateNov 18 02:09
CrystalMathand.... his results were that it does in fact rotateNov 18 02:10
CrystalMathoops :PNov 18 02:10
CrystalMathit's absolutely impossible to protect people from stupidityNov 18 02:11
oiaohmOne way a human avoids thinking for themselves is seeing something written as fact(does not have to be fact that is big problem)Nov 18 02:11
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CrystalMathbecause, stupidity is precisely cured by people not being protectedNov 18 02:12
CrystalMathnot being shelteredNov 18 02:12
CrystalMaththe more people dumb things down, the dumber people getNov 18 02:12
CrystalMath"make something idiot-proof, and nature will build a better idiot"Nov 18 02:12
oiaohmNo stupidity of humans has been the same over 2000 years as lot of these levels of stupid mistakes with documented saying something was true was false is documented in early china documents.Nov 18 02:12
oiaohmBest protection against this stupidity is regulation against writing unproven theories as fact.Nov 18 02:13
CrystalMathi think people should decide what the facts are themselvesNov 18 02:13
CrystalMathand not be toldNov 18 02:14
CrystalMathwhat the facts areNov 18 02:14
oiaohmIf something is written as a unproven theory human nature kicks in to test it.Nov 18 02:14
oiaohmUs humans like it or not we have a nature in the way our logic works.Nov 18 02:14
CrystalMathif someone wants to believe tiny gnomes make computers work, that is not my problemNov 18 02:14
CrystalMathif someone wants to make a church of tinygnomism, that's not my problem eitherNov 18 02:15
oiaohmIf they want to believe it as a person unproven theory that is fine.Nov 18 02:15
CrystalMathit only becomes a problem when i am forced to acknowledge the tiny gnomesNov 18 02:15
oiaohmIf they want to step out and say tiny gnomes are fact how computer work that is problem.Nov 18 02:15
CrystalMathi don't think it's a problem for meNov 18 02:15
CrystalMathit's a problem for themNov 18 02:15
CrystalMathbecause they're wrongNov 18 02:16
oiaohmThink the trump chain of failure.Nov 18 02:16
CrystalMathwhy are you obsessed with Trump?Nov 18 02:16
CrystalMathas i said, he did a lot of great thingsNov 18 02:16
oiaohmIts just the most recent example.Nov 18 02:16
CrystalMathhe was a great mediator between Serbia and KosovoNov 18 02:16
CrystalMathhe made the US energy independentNov 18 02:17
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CrystalMathfor the first time since 1957Nov 18 02:17
CrystalMathhe reduced unemployment by a lotNov 18 02:17
CrystalMathit's extremely arrogant of you to believe that only dumb people voted for TrumpNov 18 02:17
CrystalMathor that only uneducated / unscientific people voted for TrumpNov 18 02:17
schestowitzlolNov 18 02:17
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schestowitzthe US has an unemployment crisisNov 18 02:18
CrystalMathi would have totally picked Trump over HillaryNov 18 02:18
CrystalMathschestowitz: it didn't in 2019Nov 18 02:18
schestowitzand they barely even count the unemployedNov 18 02:18
CrystalMath:PNov 18 02:18
schestowitzthey stop counting peopleNov 18 02:18
schestowitzthe real unemployment climbsNov 18 02:18
schestowitzthey count only those still pursuing workNov 18 02:18
schestowitznot those who just gave upNov 18 02:18
schestowitzyou deem yourself a sceptical thinkerNov 18 02:19
schestowitzwhen it comes to Trump, however, you're like a 'religion;'Nov 18 02:19
schestowitzrepeating cult45 talking pointsNov 18 02:19
schestowitzabout how he's not doing warsNov 18 02:19
schestowitzwhen he drops bombs more than anyoneNov 18 02:19
schestowitzand the economy is in piecesNov 18 02:19
schestowitzthe rich got richer, as usualNov 18 02:19
schestowitzand fasterNov 18 02:19
CrystalMathsure he failed in many thingsNov 18 02:19
CrystalMathbut is he really as bad as they say?Nov 18 02:20
schestowitzanyway, I'm offNov 18 02:20
schestowitzno need to argue thisNov 18 02:20
schestowitzlook those things upNov 18 02:20
schestowitznot in corporate mediaNov 18 02:20
schestowitzit's owned by those richNov 18 02:20
schestowitzTrump gave them what they wantedNov 18 02:20
oiaohmCrystalMath:   Trump really did not reduce unemployment at the same rate obama was.Nov 18 02:20
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | The Trump economy versus the Obama economy in 16 charts - The Washington PostNov 18 02:20
oiaohmLot of things for Trump was what Obama setup before him going in the right direction.Nov 18 02:21
oiaohmTrump managed to slow most of that progress down.Nov 18 02:21
oiaohmCrystalMath: when you look at the number Trump really did not do that good even removing covid-19.Nov 18 02:21
oiaohmOne thing trump has given the USA is more Debt to pay back in future.Nov 18 02:23
schestowitz 18 02:25
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | U.S. National Debt Clock : Real TimeNov 18 02:25
oiaohmCrystalMath: lot of ways claiming unscientific back trump is fairly much true.   As they make a lot of statements that are not in fact backed by the numbers on what happened.Nov 18 02:25
CrystalMathwe know about Trump and covidNov 18 02:26
CrystalMaththe mainstream media don't let us forget, eitherNov 18 02:26
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, the Chromium snap isn't too bad.Nov 18 02:31
DaemonFC[m]I'm warming up to the idea of snaps on my system.Nov 18 02:31
XRevan86snaps are a literal opposite of reproducible buildsNov 18 02:33
XRevan86Apparently Chromium is hard to build even once. Great software, love it.Nov 18 02:34
XRevan86DaemonFC[m]: Linux Mint has dedicated a server for Chromium building as a .deb, so you could use that.Nov 18 02:35
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DaemonFC[m]Yeah, they're basically a fake distribution on top of Ubuntu.Nov 18 02:53
DaemonFC[m]So it would be compatible.Nov 18 02:53
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schestowitz[02:53] <DaemonFC[m]> Yeah, they're basically a fake distribution on top of Ubuntu.Nov 18 03:09
schestowitz[Yeah, Ubuntu is basically a fake distribution on top of Debian.Nov 18 03:09
schestowitzwelcome to gnu/linuxNov 18 03:09
schestowitzit helps if you know how it worksNov 18 03:09
schestowitzgo to /etc/version or debian_releaseNov 18 03:09
schestowitzand remind yourself how Ubuntu is madeNov 18 03:09
schestowitz> You know, if you look at all the efforts (your friend used toNov 18 03:21
schestowitz> write about them all the time) to control how people talk to each otherNov 18 03:21
schestowitz> in software-related communities, what is now called "bigotry" really didNov 18 03:21
schestowitz> put companies first.Nov 18 03:21
schestowitz> Nov 18 03:21
schestowitz> They were making a bigger deal out of putting a dollar sign inNov 18 03:21
schestowitz> "Microsoft" years before they had a problem with "master/slave" orNov 18 03:21
schestowitz> "blacklist".Nov 18 03:21
schestowitz> Nov 18 03:21
schestowitz> Which ought to show reasonable people what the real intent is here. YouNov 18 03:21
schestowitz> need to hijack a legitimate cause, if you want your bullshit cause to goNov 18 03:21
schestowitz> even farther. They really did set out originally to protect monopoliesNov 18 03:21
schestowitz> from criticism. Years later they bolted on protecting coders fromNov 18 03:21
schestowitz> standard tech industry terminology. How can anybody think that's a markNov 18 03:21
schestowitz> of sincerity? It's the essence of propaganda-- not to solve bigotry, butNov 18 03:21
schestowitz> to conflate protesting a bad corporation with bigotry. But it's not justNov 18 03:21
schestowitz> shameless and cynical and sometimes obviously-- it's even supported by aNov 18 03:21
schestowitz> casual look at the history.Nov 18 03:21
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DaemonFC[m]Ubuntu isn't Debian.Nov 18 03:59
DaemonFC[m]They actually seem to care about if people can figure out how to install and configure it, for starters.Nov 18 04:00
DaemonFC[m]It pretty much just works as a desktop role.Nov 18 04:00
DaemonFC[m]I haven't bothered with Debian since a brief encounter with Debian 6 though.Nov 18 04:00
DaemonFC[m]Besides, they pulled in MinceR's favorite init and service management framework in the whole wide world.Nov 18 04:01
DaemonFC[m]I happen to think that they should have rejected it and brought in Upstart.Nov 18 04:01
schestowitz[03:59] <DaemonFC[m]> Ubuntu isn't Debian.Nov 18 04:02
schestowitzduhNov 18 04:02
DaemonFC[m]But like MinceR, my opinion and a dollar will get you a cup of McDonald's coffee.Nov 18 04:02
schestowitzand mint is not UbuntuNov 18 04:02
DaemonFC[m]Mint uses the same binaries.Nov 18 04:02
DaemonFC[m]They don't even bother to scrub the references to Ubuntu from them.Nov 18 04:03
DaemonFC[m]If you use Cinnamon on Ubuntu it's pretty much the same thing without the security update delays introduced by Mint.Nov 18 04:03
DaemonFC[m]In some cases, Ubuntu doesn't remove Debian fluff from everything, but they do compile the system themselves and they update it more often. There's a better installer with better defaults. They don't support a lot of questionable architectures, diluting QA. Then there's the whole PPA and Snap thing.Nov 18 04:07
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Firefox 84 Beta Begins Enabling WebRender By Default On Linux []Nov 18 04:08
DaemonFC[m]To be honest, PPA and Snap are a good addition to Kubuntu as well, because if Debian doesn't have it it's usually doubtful anyone has packaged it, so you can build it yourself or try pounding in an Ubuntu package that may or may not work.Nov 18 04:08
DaemonFC[m]I just love going well shit, that program isn't there. Time to compile something.Nov 18 04:10
DaemonFC[m]Debian warns PPAs will break Debian, but.... Debian hasn't come up with it's own solution.Nov 18 04:11
DaemonFC[m]They have secret mailing lists for crying out loud.Nov 18 04:11
DaemonFC[m]It seems Debian makes a better upstream for distributions than a distribution.Nov 18 04:12
DaemonFC[m]And credit where it's due, it certainly would be worse if they didn't exist, and their package manager has improved greatly.Nov 18 04:13
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Graphics: AMD and NVIDIA Latest โ€ข ๐Ÿ…ƒ๐Ÿ…„๐Ÿ…‡ ๐Ÿ„ผ๐Ÿ„ฐ๐Ÿ„ฒ๐Ÿ„ท๐Ÿ„ธ๐Ÿ„ฝ๐Ÿ„ด๐Ÿ…‚ โ˜ž []Nov 18 04:13
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: UP Xtreme i11 SBC runs pre-installed Ubuntu on Tiger Lake โ€ข ๐Ÿ…ƒ๐Ÿ…„๐Ÿ…‡ ๐Ÿ„ผ๐Ÿ„ฐ๐Ÿ„ฒ๐Ÿ„ท๐Ÿ„ธ๐Ÿ„ฝ๐Ÿ„ด๐Ÿ…‚ โ˜ž []Nov 18 04:20
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: PPA also end up breaking Ubuntu.Nov 18 04:21
oiaohmUbuntu has not end up going the snap path for no reason.Nov 18 04:21
schestowitzlockinNov 18 04:34
schestowitzand proprietary software pushNov 18 04:34
schestowitzbad reasonsNov 18 04:34
schestowitzsame for IBM with flatprickNov 18 04:35
DaemonFC[m]Well, as Windows 10 once said.....Nov 18 04:50
DaemonFC[m]Something happened something happened.Nov 18 04:50
schestowitzI know what happenedNov 18 04:51
schestowitzsome developer happened to have forgotten to change the placeholderNov 18 04:52
schestowitzbecause Vista10 is spaghetti codeNov 18 04:52
schestowitzand dyingNov 18 04:52
schestowitzbar the bribes from Microsoft to OEMs and shopsNov 18 04:52
schestowitzlike... oh wait... where are Microsoft stores?Nov 18 04:52
schestowitzAll shut downNov 18 04:52
schestowitzthe media didn't pay much attentionNov 18 04:52
schestowitznothing to see here, move alongNov 18 04:52
schestowitzthey merely 'modernise'Nov 18 04:53
schestowitz with "online experience"Nov 18 04:53
schestowitzand MSN staff being fired is "HEY HI"Nov 18 04:53
oiaohmschestowitz:   the stores by Microsoft site are still meant to exist.Nov 18 04:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Find a Microsoft Store Near Me - Microsoft StoreNov 18 04:55
cubexyzis CSM still supported?Nov 18 04:55
DaemonFC[m] 18 04:56
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Unable to Upgrade to Windows 10 - Something Happened error - Microsoft CommunityNov 18 04:56
*DaemonFC[m] uploaded an image: tenor_gif3594203459329216536.gif (24KiB) < >Nov 18 04:56
DaemonFC[m]"I found out that the taskbar moved from bottom of the screen to the left side caused issues with 2 of my upgrades.Nov 18 04:57
DaemonFC[m]I upgraded 11 PCs and 2 of them show this "something happened" error message. Those 2 had the taskbar LOCKED to the left side of the screen. Remove the Lock and place it back to the bottom resolve the issue."Nov 18 04:57
DaemonFC[m]Quality.Nov 18 04:58
schestowitz:-)Nov 18 04:58
schestowitzyou pay for it?Nov 18 04:58
DaemonFC[m]Whereby you can't upgrade because you moved the taskbar.Nov 18 04:58
cubexyzbtw I bought a Dell T3600 a while back, no slackware issuesNov 18 04:59
cubexyzthat's 2014 tech thoughNov 18 04:59
oiaohmcubexyz: CSM in UEFI I guess you mean.     Intel has techically stopped providing support versions of that.Nov 18 05:01
DaemonFC[m]It's nice to know that the people trolling Linux have their operating system upgrade fail with "something happened" because they moved the taskbar to the side of the screen, isn't it?Nov 18 05:02
DaemonFC[m]mjg59 would probably say they should make it more difficult to get it in an unsupported state. Instead of fixing the bug, they could just make it impossible to move the taskbar anywhere where it will cause the upgrade program to fail.Nov 18 05:03
DaemonFC[m]MinceR^Nov 18 05:04
oiaohmcubexyz: of course someone might decide to make like seabios as a loader on top of UEFI to bring CSM back.Nov 18 05:04
cubexyzI'm still waiting for coreboot desktop motherboards you can just buyNov 18 05:04
DaemonFC[m]I think SeaBIOS should be part of any Coreboot system in case I want to run DOS. Because it's my computer and I should be able to boot it into Real Mode DOS in 2020 if I want to.Nov 18 05:05
DaemonFC[m]mjg59 probably thinks that it's just fine to run firmware updates while a general purpose OS (including one like Windows that could suicide bomb itself any second for no reason at all) is running. So why would you ever need DOS?Nov 18 05:06
DaemonFC[m]After all, we should make it hard to get it into an unsupported state where the flash has a 99.9999% chance of going well.Nov 18 05:06
cubexyzyou could want to run a real mode OS yesNov 18 05:06
cubexyznot common but possibleNov 18 05:06
DaemonFC[m]I don't see any reason why DOS should have fallen by the wayside, really.Nov 18 05:07
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]:  coreboot has 3 different bios implementations all able to run dos.   seabios, openbios and Open FirmwareNov 18 05:07
cubexyzISA cards, again rare but there are still a few people using themNov 18 05:07
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Payloads - corebootNov 18 05:07
DaemonFC[m]DOS extenders could do anything. So, the user could just use DOS as a base of operations to do whatever they wanted, including load Linux. Nov 18 05:07
DaemonFC[m]Things got infinitely worse when Windows became commonly accepted.Nov 18 05:08
DaemonFC[m]System requirements soared, just so you could click on things.Nov 18 05:08
cubexyzthat's why I wrote the foss matrixNov 18 05:09
DaemonFC[m]DOS wasn't particularly unstable, but Windows 98 crashed at least a few times per day.Nov 18 05:09
cubexyz 18 05:09
oiaohmDos does have some major problems.Nov 18 05:09
oiaohmSo does bios.Nov 18 05:09
DaemonFC[m]Windows 2000 was the only version I had any serious uptime with.Nov 18 05:10
oiaohmBios was not really designed for 4k sector harddrives.    Dos is absolutely not designed for 4k sector harddrives.Nov 18 05:10
cubexyzoiaohm, is not that we think msdos is greatNov 18 05:10
DaemonFC[m]To the point that I downgraded some XP systems just because it ran like shit and was less stable. Nov 18 05:10
cubexyzwe just want to run anything we want as an OSNov 18 05:10
oiaohmfreedos runs into real trouble at 2tb harddrives.Nov 18 05:10
cubexyzAROS, or even our own custom OSNov 18 05:10
DaemonFC[m]I set up my last Legacy BIOS system with BIOS-GPT.Nov 18 05:11
DaemonFC[m]The specification was much nicer than uEFI, on balance. Nov 18 05:11
cubexyzmostly for old msdos games I can use scummvmNov 18 05:12
cubexyzor wine for old windows gamesNov 18 05:12
oiaohmMost old dos games dosbox is best choice because modern hardware is too fast.Nov 18 05:12
DaemonFC[m]You could hack around BIOS partitioning limits easily in a way that the user would never need to think about again.Nov 18 05:12
oiaohmso you need emulation to slow it down.Nov 18 05:12
DaemonFC[m]So it wasn't really that big of a deal.Nov 18 05:13
oiaohmUntil you have a 10TB harddrive.Nov 18 05:13
DaemonFC[m]What happens then?Nov 18 05:13
cubexyzoiaohm, I have rather a lot of old PC clunkers anywaysNov 18 05:14
oiaohmThe 10TB drives are 4K drives that really don't like 512 emulation.Nov 18 05:14
oiaohmSo they stall out to hell with a 512 write pattern.Nov 18 05:14
DaemonFC[m]Well, nobody should like 512 emulation.Nov 18 05:15
oiaohm512 is 512 sector operations.Nov 18 05:15
DaemonFC[m]It was put into place because Microsoft didn't want to bother updating older versions of Windows.Nov 18 05:15
oiaohmYes old bios also use that for reading the bootloaders.Nov 18 05:15
oiaohm4k drives expect you to ask for 4k not 512.Nov 18 05:15
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DaemonFC[m]Can they do both? I'm not sure about that.Nov 18 05:16
DaemonFC[m]Shouldn't affect anything if you were only using it to get the system to POST and then the OS knew what 4k was.Nov 18 05:16
oiaohmThat the catch when you get to 10TB and past harddrives are design for 4K.Nov 18 05:17
oiaohmQuite a few of them cannot do both.Nov 18 05:17
oiaohmThere is a transition window from 512 bytes per sector to 4K per sector in harddrives.Nov 18 05:18
oiaohmThis same transition window will appear in solid state storage as well.Nov 18 05:18
oiaohmthe old bios/dos due to hardware changes is very much coming I must be run in emulation.Nov 18 05:19
DaemonFC[m]oiaohm: So, is this my imagination or not? Change of subject btw.Nov 18 05:19
DaemonFC[m]My sinuses are terrible, and I went and bought two air purifiers, and now my sinuses are totally clear. Nov 18 05:19
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DaemonFC[m]I figure it must be the air purifiers. I'm trying to think what I've been allergic to all the time that's been in every single house.Nov 18 05:20
DaemonFC[m]I even had sinus surgery at one point and it didn't really help so much as I ended up in the hospital for a month because I picked up an infection in the operating room.Nov 18 05:21
cubexyzsome mold spores are badNov 18 05:21
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: I do not have a good answer for that.Nov 18 05:21
DaemonFC[m]This is something called an iFD filter.Nov 18 05:22
oiaohmIt could be something in house or that you simply had a long term infection.Nov 18 05:22
DaemonFC[m]I just went ahead and stocked up on the carbon prefilter things.Nov 18 05:22
DaemonFC[m]Amazon had a bunch of warehouse deal specials on them.Nov 18 05:22
oiaohmReducing general contimination around you for a while can allow body to get ahead of a long term sinuses infection.Nov 18 05:22
DaemonFC[m]They're disposable but are supposed to do a better job than the washable prefilter.Nov 18 05:22
DaemonFC[m]<oiaohm "Reducing general contimination a"> Oh I have sinus infections constantly.Nov 18 05:23
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: so you might have been alergic to something or had a long term mild sinus infection.Nov 18 05:23
DaemonFC[m]About every year or two they get so bad I have to go on amoxicillin again.Nov 18 05:23
oiaohmThere is a chance that you were never rid of them.Nov 18 05:24
oiaohmYou body has to always been dealing with a level of contaimination around you.Nov 18 05:24
oiaohmThat changes up and down.Nov 18 05:25
cubexyzlike a room full of laserprints...Nov 18 05:25
cubexyzlaserprintersNov 18 05:25
oiaohmNow long term sinus infection reduces you means to cope with that.Nov 18 05:25
oiaohmOf course you can hide a long term sinus infection by like going into a clean room.Nov 18 05:26
oiaohmDoing harddrive repairs in the like working in clean rooms something we were told to check for was sinus infections.Nov 18 05:26
oiaohmbecause while working in clean room you could appear totally fine.Nov 18 05:26
oiaohmStep out side basically be dead person.Nov 18 05:27
oiaohmDid not have to be anything your were alergic to.Nov 18 05:27
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]:   Allergy there is in fact a blood test.   If you have a sinus infections and your doctor has been doing their job they should have done the allergy blood test.Nov 18 05:31
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Allergy Blood Test: MedlinePlus Medical TestNov 18 05:31
DaemonFC[m] 18 05:31
-TechrightsBot-tr/ Honeywell AirGenius Air Purifier, 1-Pack, Black: Home & KitchenNov 18 05:31
oiaohmThat tells if it just infection or  allergy.Nov 18 05:31
DaemonFC[m]I put an AirGenius 5 in the living room and liked it so much I put a 4 in the bedroom. After I figured out that the 4 is basically the same thing with buttons instead of a touchscreen. ($20 cheaper.)Nov 18 05:32
oiaohmYes that blood test can be used to tell what you have done has removed what you are allergic to.Nov 18 05:33
DaemonFC[m]Part of it could be the cats, I guess.Nov 18 05:33
oiaohmBig thing have you ever had the allergy blood test.Nov 18 05:33
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oiaohmThat something you need to check.Nov 18 05:33
oiaohmThere are many different infections that can cause sinus trouble that can come from cats.Nov 18 05:34
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: fun part with sinus trouble is working out is it infection or is it allergy.Nov 18 05:35
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oiaohmOr if it both.Nov 18 05:35
oiaohmBefore blood tests it was insane guess work.Nov 18 05:36
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: UP Xtreme i11 Tiger Lake SBC and mini PC to ship with Ubuntu 20.04 []Nov 18 05:38
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Screencasts/Audiocasts/Shows: Amarok Linux 2.1.1, mintCast and LINUX Unplugged โ€ข ๐Ÿ…ƒ๐Ÿ…„๐Ÿ…‡ ๐Ÿ„ผ๐Ÿ„ฐ๐Ÿ„ฒ๐Ÿ„ท๐Ÿ„ธ๐Ÿ„ฝ๐Ÿ„ด๐Ÿ…‚ โ˜ž []Nov 18 05:48
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oiaohm   Just notice youtube-dl repo is back.Nov 18 06:36
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | youtube-dlNov 18 06:36
CrystalMathyepNov 18 06:47
CrystalMathi posted a link to the news of thatNov 18 06:47
CrystalMathyesterdayNov 18 06:47
oiaohmInteresting that it was attack in Germany as well.Nov 18 06:50
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schestowitz 18 08:58
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@michaelgraaf: For those who think Microsoft buying Github was just business... 18 08:58
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 500 @ )Nov 18 08:58
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux Lite โ€“ An Easy to Use Free and Fast Linux Distro โ€ข ๐Ÿ…ƒ๐Ÿ…„๐Ÿ…‡ ๐Ÿ„ผ๐Ÿ„ฐ๐Ÿ„ฒ๐Ÿ„ท๐Ÿ„ธ๐Ÿ„ฝ๐Ÿ„ด๐Ÿ…‚ โ˜ž []Nov 18 09:19
schestowitz 18 09:23
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | New Yorkโ€˜s Chait Boosts Charter Schoolsโ€”but No Longer Mentions Spouseโ€™s Policy Role in Charter School Industry โ€” FAIRNov 18 09:23
vZS1schestowitz: writing an RSS 2.0 library from scratch. Can share with you after I'm done.Nov 18 09:31
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schestowitzcoolNov 18 09:33
schestowitzbtw, I regenerated the bulletinNov 18 09:33
schestowitzand it was copied across, overwriting the previous filesNov 18 09:33
schestowitznot sure if that'll make a new hash first time update is runNov 18 09:33
vZS1WaitNov 18 09:33
vZS1Did you change the index format?Nov 18 09:34
vZS1If the index format is the same, it shouldn't matterNov 18 09:34
vZS1Because my bot looks for any difference in old and new index. If there's a difference, it copies the whole new index from the sourceNov 18 09:35
schestowitzso it might do thatNov 18 09:36
schestowitzindex format the sameNov 18 09:36
vZS1Yeah. Then it's fineNov 18 09:36
schestowitzbut the file had two articles added to itNov 18 09:36
schestowitzposted past midnightNov 18 09:36
schestowitztoday we'll do more EPO disclosures of documentsNov 18 09:36
vZS1The bot sequentially processes each CIDNov 18 09:36
vZS1So it won't miss new things in the middleNov 18 09:37
vZS1I designed it like this intentionally. To be robust. (:Nov 18 09:37
vZS1So as long as the index format is the same, you can modify the index however you wantNov 18 09:38
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vZS1I'm basically building everything from scratch. The nice thing is I can keep things lean this way. And slapping AGPLv3 on everything.Nov 18 09:49
vZS1The other stuff I depend on is all GPL or compatible as wellNov 18 09:49
vZS1HTTP server, RSS library, IPFS index management, even thinking of rolling a minimal IRC server.Nov 18 09:50
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vZS1The alternatives are all way too much bloatNov 18 09:51
vZS1I'm mercilessly cutting out everything unnecessaryNov 18 09:52
vZS1Because the whole idea is to offload everything possible to IPFSNov 18 09:52
vZS1So stuff like Apache, Nginx, etc are all bloat.Nov 18 09:53
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vZS1So far, everything is fitting on my Pi with loads of resources to spare. The IPFS daemon is the heaviest component. And it'll stay that way.Nov 18 09:56
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oiaohmvZS1: fun if you end up with a auto scaling http cluster.Nov 18 12:30
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers โ€ข ๐Ÿ…ƒ๐Ÿ…„๐Ÿ…‡ ๐Ÿ„ผ๐Ÿ„ฐ๐Ÿ„ฒ๐Ÿ„ท๐Ÿ„ธ๐Ÿ„ฝ๐Ÿ„ด๐Ÿ…‚ โ˜ž []Nov 18 13:45
schestowitzvZS1: Nov 18 13:57
schestowitzBandwidthNov 18 13:57
schestowitzTotalIn: 16 GBNov 18 13:57
schestowitzTotalOut: 6.2 GBNov 18 13:57
vZS1I've lost track of mine because I keep changing thingsNov 18 13:58
schestowitzI spoke to someone about mineNov 18 14:01
schestowitzI might take it offline for a bit next month to assemble extensionsNov 18 14:01
schestowitzlights, LEDs, keysNov 18 14:01
schestowitzI was sent several modulesNov 18 14:01
schestowitzbut need a soldering gun, which I can neither buy or borrowNov 18 14:02
schestowitz*norNov 18 14:02
schestowitzthe pi is fully backups up now to my laptop and external drive, so there are three copiesNov 18 14:02
schestowitzin case we need to reassemble anythingNov 18 14:02
schestowitzdone enough EPO pubs for todayNov 18 14:02
schestowitzwill move on to gnu/linux/fs nowNov 18 14:02
schestowitzI won't be back on shift (work) trill firday nightNov 18 14:03
MinceR18 045926 < DaemonFC[m]> Ubuntu isn't Debian.Nov 18 14:04
MinceRubunturd relies on deadian for all the hard workNov 18 14:04
MinceRthey realized cancerd was shit but did nothing about it because it would have taken workNov 18 14:05
MinceRthey also gave up on unityNov 18 14:05
MinceRand mirNov 18 14:05
MinceR18 055851 < DaemonFC[m]> Whereby you can't upgrade because you moved the taskbar.Nov 18 14:06
MinceRah yes, the Year of Windows on the DesktopNov 18 14:06
MinceRthere are parts of it that sometimes almost work!Nov 18 14:06
MinceRno need to hurry, they've only released the first version 34 years ago.Nov 18 14:07
schestowitzgnu?Nov 18 14:07
schestowitzwindows?Nov 18 14:07
MinceRwindowsNov 18 14:08
MinceRthey're working on infiltrating and fucking up GNU, but it isn't as bad as Backdoors yetNov 18 14:09
schestowitzI have two sides to me;Nov 18 14:10
schestowitzthe optimistNov 18 14:10
schestowitzand the pessimistNov 18 14:10
schestowitzmixing the two is reconcilableNov 18 14:11
schestowitzon the one hand, gnu is used a lotNov 18 14:11
schestowitzeven on devicesNov 18 14:11
schestowitzin HPC also, a LOT..Nov 18 14:11
schestowitzbut media calls it "LINUX"Nov 18 14:11
schestowitzbut f the mediaNov 18 14:11
schestowitzit doesn't matterNov 18 14:11
schestowitzotho, we're being infiltratedNov 18 14:11
schestowitzand not just by MicrosoftNov 18 14:11
schestowitzThey all want a piece of the action, Google includedNov 18 14:11
schestowitzso the GNU vision isn't playing out the way it was meant to... or foreseen/envisionedNov 18 14:12
schestowitzso we sort of try to correct the routeNov 18 14:12
schestowitzand then they tell us to just use GNU as WSLNov 18 14:12
schestowitzbasically to buy a Vista10 machines with back doors and spying ('telemetry')Nov 18 14:12
schestowitzand that this is "love"Nov 18 14:12
schestowitzso we can recognise progress madeNov 18 14:12
schestowitzby some perturbed standardNov 18 14:13
schestowitzand try to adjust that to what we want it to beNov 18 14:13
schestowitzrecognising that there won't be exactly what we wantedNov 18 14:13
schestowitzlike community distros dominatingNov 18 14:13
schestowitzAmazon also has its own distro nowNov 18 14:13
smnthermes> โ€Ž[01:03:46] โ€ŽDaemonFC[m]โ€Ž: If you use Cinnamon on Ubuntu it's pretty much the same thing without the security update delays introduced by Mint.Nov 18 14:13
smnthermesExamples?Nov 18 14:13
schestowitzconcern-trollingNov 18 14:17
schestowitzimhoNov 18 14:17
schestowitzMint is doing no worse than mostNov 18 14:17
schestowitzand when very severe bugs exist the fixes come downstream to mint fastNov 18 14:17
schestowitzand they're binary-compatible afiakNov 18 14:17
MinceRyeah, it's just another pointless systemd/Linux distroNov 18 14:18
schestowitzusually kernel-level things or some micropackageNov 18 14:18
schestowitzlike some "lib" part of something elseNov 18 14:18
schestowitzlike libxmlNov 18 14:18
schestowitzMinceR: does systemd replace linux?Nov 18 14:18
schestowitzor gnu?Nov 18 14:18
schestowitzusually utils connected to bothNov 18 14:18
schestowitzso you could say systemd/glinuxNov 18 14:19
schestowitzdevice drivers=linuxNov 18 14:19
schestowitzgnu for programsNov 18 14:19
schestowitzsystemd for network management, services etc.Nov 18 14:19
schestowitzthen stuff on topNov 18 14:19
schestowitzmaybe wayland will become part of systemd ;-)Nov 18 14:19
schestowitzthen lvfsNov 18 14:20
schestowitzthen a systemd Universal Desktop EnvironmentNov 18 14:20
schestowitzWith systemDofficeNov 18 14:20
schestowitzand a browser Nov 18 14:20
smnthermesServo-based browser?Nov 18 14:21
schestowitzServo is offensiveNov 18 14:21
schestowitzlike "git"Nov 18 14:21
schestowitzthey're servants of MicrosoftNov 18 14:21
schestowitzwe need to abolish bothNov 18 14:21
schestowitzservo also uses rust, which is a servant of MicrosoftNov 18 14:22
schestowitzwhich is obviously an ethnic thingNov 18 14:22
schestowitzthey tell usNov 18 14:22
schestowitzonly blacks serve whites.... or something..Nov 18 14:22
schestowitzand masters can only ever be "white" and "privileged".. or somethingNov 18 14:23
schestowitzI reckon a large nation like China and India had far more masters and slaves than the US and Europe combined every hadNov 18 14:23
MinceRschestowitz: it's replacing GNUNov 18 14:23
schestowitzthey just had different words for those things and practicesNov 18 14:23
MinceRat least until they rename Linux to systemd-kerneldNov 18 14:23
schestowitzfor sure the Japanese made sex slaves and used CHinese slave labour for centuriesNov 18 14:23
MinceRor move its repo inside the systemd repoNov 18 14:24
MinceRor bothNov 18 14:24
schestowitzlet's see how long for linux can stay outside Microsoft's direct claws (GitHub)Nov 18 14:26
schestowitzthey already had a few goes/test runs at itNov 18 14:26
schestowitz 18 14:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Warning: Microsoft Tim and Microsoftโ€™s New Mole Inside โ€˜Linuxโ€™ Foundation Board (a Paid-For Seat) Liaise to Outsource Linux Development to Microsoftโ€™s Proprietary Software Trap | TechrightsNov 18 14:26
schestowitzMicrosoft can easily seize control of anything in GitHubNov 18 14:26
schestowitzand even censor those who oppose thatNov 18 14:26
schestowitzto make a false or parallel reality about what's going onNov 18 14:27
schestowitzhappened to Rust, afaikNov 18 14:27
schestowitzand they silence Microsoft critics nowNov 18 14:27
schestowitzRust and anything made with it may be doomed to failNov 18 14:27
schestowitz 18 14:27
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | The Linux Kernel Needs to Reject Rust for the Same Reason Linus Torvalds Rejects GitHub (Where Rust is Hosted and Developed) | TechrightsNov 18 14:27
vZS1The real problem is the devs. GNU is a thing because developers build off each other's work and make it easy to do so. Also at the same time using the right license and development platform to swat away the grubby hands of GAFAM.Nov 18 14:34
vZS1A lot of people don't realise how legendary the programming and hacking skills the GNU vanguard have. The GPL and AGPL make sure that works like those stay copyleft.Nov 18 14:36
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today in #Techrights โ€ข ๐Ÿ…ƒ๐Ÿ…„๐Ÿ…‡ ๐Ÿ„ผ๐Ÿ„ฐ๐Ÿ„ฒ๐Ÿ„ท๐Ÿ„ธ๐Ÿ„ฝ๐Ÿ„ด๐Ÿ…‚ โ˜ž []Nov 18 14:38
vZS1One way TR could really contribute is to dispel the myth that "permissive" licenses help developers. Look at how badly projects like OpenBSD suffered financially. Their work basically got leeched by GAFAM and they got nothing back. Copyleft is important to keep control of work that's done by domain experts.Nov 18 14:39
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Fedora 34 to Introduce KDE Plasma Spin for 64-bit ARM โ€ข ๐Ÿ…ƒ๐Ÿ…„๐Ÿ…‡ ๐Ÿ„ผ๐Ÿ„ฐ๐Ÿ„ฒ๐Ÿ„ท๐Ÿ„ธ๐Ÿ„ฝ๐Ÿ„ด๐Ÿ…‚ โ˜ž []Nov 18 14:39
vZS1The OpenBSD financial struggles are easily accessible on WikipediaNov 18 14:39
vZS1Look to a project like nmap to see how to do copyleft rightNov 18 14:40
vZS1The nmap license is basically AGPL but with clauses for commercial support contracts and a separate OEM license for inclusion in proprietary productsNov 18 14:41
vZS1They keep control of their project and have finances rolling in. And users still have full freedom over their softwareNov 18 14:41
MinceR> swat away the grubby hands of GAFAM.Nov 18 14:44
MinceRthat doesn't seem to be working anymoreNov 18 14:44
vZS1Yes it did yNov 18 14:44
vZS1Does*Nov 18 14:44
vZS1Look at nmapNov 18 14:44
MinceRmicroshit took over LinuxNov 18 14:44
vZS1I'm not talking about LinuxNov 18 14:44
MinceRcorporate SJWs took over FSF and cancelled RMSNov 18 14:44
schestowitz[14:39] <vZS1> One way TR could really contribute is to dispel the myth that "permissive" licenses help developers. Look at how badly projects like OpenBSD suffered financially. Their work basically got leeched by GAFAM and they got nothing back. Copyleft is important to keep control of work that's done by domain experts.Nov 18 14:44
schestowitzWe wrote a LOT about GPL back in the daysNov 18 14:44
schestowitzAGPL alsoNov 18 14:45
schestowitzaround 2007Nov 18 14:45
vZS1Do the nmap licenseNov 18 14:45
MinceROpenBSD may yet survive Linux and GNUNov 18 14:45
vZS1It's a good oneNov 18 14:45
schestowitzvZS1: new: Nov 18 14:45
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Jan ๐Ÿ˜ท Wildeboer: "If you, for whatever reason, want to make sure yoโ€ฆ" - social.wildeboer.netNov 18 14:45
schestowitzPerens likes AGPL 18 14:46
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Key Parts of the Latest Talk From Bruce Perens, Who Seemingly Wants to Go Back to Freedom (Because โ€˜Openโ€™ Became Increasingly Meaningless and Users Are Harmed) | TechrightsNov 18 14:46
vZS1FOSS, Open Source, etc are all harmful terminologyNov 18 14:47
vZS1The BSD licenses are also crap for user freedomNov 18 14:47
vZS1Because you just gift free code to GAFAM with any BSD licenseNov 18 14:48
schestowitznot only to GAFAMNov 18 14:48
schestowitzit ends up cheapening development of proprietary crapNov 18 14:48
vZS1Pretty muchNov 18 14:49
scientesvZS1, no, there is no harm. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me.Nov 18 14:49
schestowitzand meanwhile that does not improve the code we have available to allNov 18 14:49
MinceRalso to any free software project that uses a different license from the one you would have used :>Nov 18 14:49
vZS1AGPL is what we need now.Nov 18 14:50
vZS1The sign that GAFAM treat it like poison is a good one for copyleftNov 18 14:50
schestowitzthey bribe SFCNov 18 14:50
schestowitz 18 14:51
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Video: Microsoft-Sponsored โ€˜Copyleftโ€™ Conf (Keynote Sold to Microsoft, a Serial GPL Violator and Primary FUD Source) Features Previous FSF (Co)President and RMS Ouster | TechrightsNov 18 14:51
scientesWhat we need now is more money and power.Nov 18 14:51
schestowitz 18 14:51
vZS1Anyway. Got to get back to workNov 18 14:51
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Platinum (Top) Sponsors of Copyleft Conf Are Companies That Attack Copyleftโ€™s Father, Richard Stallman | TechrightsNov 18 14:51
vZS1Lots to doNov 18 14:51
schestowitzgeneral manager of OSI nowNov 18 14:51
scientesIf only I had more money, and more power.Nov 18 14:51
schestowitzDeb IcazaNov 18 14:51
schestowitzthat's their entry pointNov 18 14:51
schestowitzpay money, get inNov 18 14:51
schestowitzspeak FOR what you ATTACKNov 18 14:52
vZS1OSI, FSF, EFF, SFC, W3C, all compromisedNov 18 14:52
cybrNautGAFAM is too short.  MACFANG is better.  (MS Amazon CloudFlare Facebook Apple Netflix Google)Nov 18 14:52
schestowitzEFF todayNov 18 14:52
schestowitz[11:03] [Notice] -viera to #boycottnovell-social- Dr. Roy Schestowitz (็ฝ—ไผŠ): #EFF again failing to blast #microsoft for what it did (yes, EFF is useless for many things) and telling people to #deletegithub []Nov 18 14:53
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | GitHub Reinstates youtube-dl After RIAAโ€™s Abuse of the DMCA | Electronic Frontier FoundationNov 18 14:53
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-pleroma.siteNov 18 14:53
schestowitzalso yesterdayNov 18 14:53
schestowitz[09:40] [Notice] -viera to #boycottnovell-social- Dr. Roy Schestowitz (็ฝ—ไผŠ): #EFF Push Back Against #RIAA , Reinstate #Youtubedl Repository EFF deflecting from #microsoft role. Boo. []Nov 18 14:53
vZS1I need to get back to work on this RSS libraryNov 18 14:53
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-GitHub, EFF Push Back Against RIAA, Reinstate Youtube-dl Repository | TechdirtNov 18 14:53
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-pleroma.siteNov 18 14:53
cybrNautleaving CloudFlare out is a mistake.  they're the biggest rat bastard scumbagsNov 18 14:53
schestowitzit's part of a patternNov 18 14:53
schestowitzEFF never really criticises Microsoft anymoreNov 18 14:53
scientescybrNaut, is that a iPhone attachment?Nov 18 14:53
scientesmacFangNov 18 14:53
schestowitzthey even gave an AWARD to a Microsoft privacy abuserNov 18 14:53
schestowitzEFF is finished to me, almost...Nov 18 14:54
schestowitzthe people I trusted there have left or diedNov 18 14:54
scientesdiabetic monitorNov 18 14:54
schestowitzFinancially compromised too 18 14:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | The EFF Must Return That โ€˜Internshipโ€™ Money to Google or It Would Disgrace the Patent Reform Movement (by Association) | TechrightsNov 18 14:54
schestowitz 18 14:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | EFF: Sitting on a Massive Pile of Money and Members Are Less Than a Third of the Revenue | TechrightsNov 18 14:55
schestowitzthey're a money-making machineNov 18 14:55
cybrNautEFF does seem overly fixated on Google, and Google is the lesser of MACFANG evilsNov 18 14:55
schestowitzEFF takes money from GoogleNov 18 14:55
schestowitzit's too gentle on it at timesNov 18 14:55
schestowitzMaybe it waits for some bribes from Marky Zucky tooNov 18 14:55
schestowitzto add to that $40,000,000 in the bankNov 18 14:55
schestowitzthey attacked email encryptionNov 18 14:56
schestowitzwith that "efail" BSNov 18 14:56
schestowitzwhich backfiedNov 18 14:56
schestowitzand they recommended the Microsoft-hosted SignalNov 18 14:56
schestowitzwhich REQUIRES a 'phone' numberNov 18 14:56
scientescybrNaut, so they suck your blood, but suck less of it?Nov 18 14:56
schestowitzand which Vault 7 leaks had already shown to be compromisedNov 18 14:56
schestowitzthat's after head honchos of EFF had diedNov 18 14:57
schestowitznow it's cindy cohenNov 18 14:57
schestowitzI don't know her technical credsNov 18 14:57
schestowitzshe probably has /some/, nowhere near Barlow'sNov 18 14:57
schestowitzand maybe it's worth finding out who she's connected to, like who spouse works forNov 18 14:57
cybrNautWe need an EFF that has a pair of balls, and not in bed with the Tor project.  Tor project are sellouts, easily bribed by donations.  EFF respects those who bribe TorNov 18 14:58
schestowitzwe might have hit the jackpot if it can mine that deepNov 18 14:58
scientes>  EFF respects those who bribe TorNov 18 14:58
scientesnice quoteNov 18 14:58
schestowitzEFF stood up for Assange when Barlow was stilll in chargeNov 18 14:58
schestowitzafter that things changedNov 18 14:58
schestowitzso EFF was no longer even an ally of reporting that exposes imperialismNov 18 14:59
schestowitzand war crimesNov 18 14:59
schestowitzit's "not good" for attracting "sponsors"Nov 18 14:59
schestowitzbetter to be "diplomatic" and "soft"Nov 18 14:59
schestowitzlike OSINov 18 14:59
schestowitzwith  blog posts welcoming everything MicrosoftNov 18 14:59
schestowitzEven proprietary softwareNov 18 14:59
scientesmy favorite Psalm is 26: "Do not sweep me away with sinners/Nor take my life away with violent men,/Whose hands engage in shameful conduct,/And whose right hand is full of bribes."Nov 18 14:59
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scientescybrNaut, I have been in this channel a long time, and also seen emotional stuff in the #talos-workstation channel, and the #1 thing I have to say is what Lawrence Lessig said: Code is Law. Focus on the code, not the people. The code is far more powerful.Nov 18 15:01
scienteswhat he said was "Code is Law"Nov 18 15:01
schestowitzfigosdev quotes the sameNov 18 15:02
schestowitzCode=conduct, practical conductNov 18 15:02
vZS1I'll keep nagging about this until the end of time. GPL is no longer effectively copyleft thanks to clown services. Old projects need to be relicensed under AGPL or orgs will run away with our foundational code.Nov 18 15:02
schestowitzlike who gets bannedNov 18 15:02
schestowitzesp. if you automate itNov 18 15:02
scientesvZS1, you are not focusing on the codeNov 18 15:03
scientesyou are all in your headNov 18 15:03
scientesand you drive away people that can codeNov 18 15:03
schestowitzthey can still be agpl-compliance and make or run derivs that do bad thingsNov 18 15:03
scientestowards using BSD licensesNov 18 15:03
schestowitzlike, you could let them rewrite webserver code to do more spying and then "Share back the changes"Nov 18 15:04
vZS1Yes. But then they are legally obligated to share modificationsNov 18 15:04
schestowitzwhich one might say even weaponises more companies like themNov 18 15:04
schestowitzvZS1: yes, even malicious modsNov 18 15:04
vZS1So you see the spyware out in the openNov 18 15:04
schestowitzand then?Nov 18 15:04
schestowitzyou cannot force them to run them sans the mods on their clownsNov 18 15:04
vZS1They are forced to give backNov 18 15:05
schestowitzso on that particular front we can at best expose or copyNov 18 15:05
vZS1That's the whole pointNov 18 15:05
schestowitzbut not forces them NOT to run some malicious coe derived off yoursNov 18 15:05
schestowitz*codeNov 18 15:05
vZS1You can't stop that with copyleftNov 18 15:05
scientesvZS1, they are *obliged*, but that doesn't mean they doNov 18 15:05
schestowitzBTWNov 18 15:05
schestowitzI got some notes on GPL violationsNov 18 15:05
schestowitzfor upcoming articldNov 18 15:06
scientesand if you don't do anything then *you* are the problemNov 18 15:06
cybrNautscientes: by /Focus on the code/, i thought you where talking about moral code, not coding, but your reply to vZS1 makes it sound like you meant programmingNov 18 15:06
schestowitz[17:58] <schestowitz> > Iโ€™m waiting for another email / message before doing so, as we have found a few GPL violations from Dolby, which seems to suggest some prior art.Nov 18 15:06
schestowitz[17:58] <schestowitz> > Nov 18 15:06
schestowitz[17:58] <schestowitz> > Many thanks for the followup. Nov 18 15:06
schestowitz[17:58] <schestowitz> If we have evidence of those violations, we can do a separate article about that.Nov 18 15:06
schestowitzThe GPL violation angle might also be of interest. Nov 18 15:06
schestowitzIf anyone out there can research thisNov 18 15:06
scientescybrNaut, I do mean programmingNov 18 15:06
schestowitzlurking/reading logsNov 18 15:06
schestowitzit's hard to locate info on thisNov 18 15:06
vZS1Right now they're having a field day doing whatever they like with GPL code, hiding behind their clownsNov 18 15:07
scientescybrNaut, but form matches function, so software can certainly effect behavior, which is also what Lessig says in the same breath with "Code is law"Nov 18 15:07
vZS1AGPL would force them to become exposedNov 18 15:07
vZS1That's why to them it's anathemaNov 18 15:07
schestowitz"Code is Conduct (Cic) :)Nov 18 15:07
scientesvZS1, not really--the communication is already there, the problem is that the software doesn't show itNov 18 15:08
schestowitzand it might not deter their useds [sic] off themNov 18 15:08
schestowitzweaken off itNov 18 15:08
schestowitzas we already saw, facebook can be 'literally nazis', addicted useds would still be usedNov 18 15:08
scientesEdward Snowden says this wellNov 18 15:08
vZS1They also can't boast about their "in-house" solutionsNov 18 15:08
vZS1When they're basically ripping off GPL code wholesaleNov 18 15:09
schestowitz"Solushens"Nov 18 15:09
schestowitzmalwareNov 18 15:09
schestowitz"secret sauce"Nov 18 15:09
schestowitz"apps"Nov 18 15:09
scientesschestowitz, slushionsNov 18 15:09
scienteshahahaNov 18 15:09
vZS1Anyway. Enough of my diatribe. I've got code that needs hacking.Nov 18 15:09
schestowitz"just get di uppp"Nov 18 15:09
schestowitzpress "OK" to allNov 18 15:10
schestowitzmicrophone alsoNov 18 15:10
schestowitzwe need to access your mic and phone book.. to serve you milkshake todayNov 18 15:10
scientesvZS1, if you actually care about these issues you should write some code to show to other people what you see so they see the same as youNov 18 15:10
MinceR18 155245 < cybrNaut> GAFAM is too short.  MACFANG is better.  (MS Amazon CloudFlare Facebook Apple Netflix Google)Nov 18 15:12
MinceRstill no intelNov 18 15:12
XRevan86Intel's insideNov 18 15:14
schestowitzI heard another one, with Twitter and Clownflare in itNov 18 15:14
schestowitzfigosdev says GIAFAM for IBMNov 18 15:14
schestowitzOracle is never namedNov 18 15:14
schestowitzor Salesforce... both do software and always maliciousNov 18 15:14
schestowitzMinceR: Intel is h/wNov 18 15:14
schestowitzmostlyNov 18 15:14
schestowitzmore so than AppleNov 18 15:14
scientesschestowitz, GIAFAM reminds me of GNAANov 18 15:14
MinceRah yes, IBM was missing tooNov 18 15:15
schestowitzscientes: open upNov 18 15:15
schestowitzopen up the GAFAMNov 18 15:15
MinceRschestowitz: well, UEFI, IME and IBG are cancerous enoughNov 18 15:15
MinceR(and TianoCore, but that's UEFI)Nov 18 15:15
schestowitzIBM is shrinking, even before covidNov 18 15:15
MinceRibm bought hedrat and they're trying to kill GNUNov 18 15:15
scientesall these organizations should join GNAANov 18 15:15
MinceR:>Nov 18 15:16
scientesincluding FSFNov 18 15:16
scientesGNU is a project, not an organizationNov 18 15:16
XRevan86Is Oracle actually noteworthy?Nov 18 15:16
scientesXRevan86, exactly, all they do is make accounting softwareNov 18 15:16
schestowitzSAPNov 18 15:17
XRevan86scientes: You mean databases?Nov 18 15:17
scienteslots of oppurtunities for graft in accounting software, but little technical interestNov 18 15:17
schestowitzaccounting alsoNov 18 15:17
schestowitz'middleware'Nov 18 15:17
scientesXRevan86, databases are a dime a dozen, what makes them money is very simple accounting softwareNov 18 15:17
schestowitzOracle has many bribery scandalsNov 18 15:17
scientesbut it means they are between the business and the moneyNov 18 15:17
XRevan86They also have Java, that's probably their biggest grip on IT.Nov 18 15:17
schestowitzsame for Microsofr and IBMNov 18 15:17
schestowitzit's easy t bribe in the public sector and get away with itNov 18 15:18
scientesand it is well known that whoever touches the money ends up with itNov 18 15:18
oiaohmscientes: accounting software turns out to be quite a hard thing with all the different tax code changes every year.Nov 18 15:19
scientesoiaohm, the IRS had a easy solution to that: nationalize TurboTaxNov 18 15:19
scientes 18 15:20
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Free File: Do Your Federal Taxes for Free | Internal Revenue ServiceNov 18 15:20
schestowitzbut intuit hides itNov 18 15:20
schestowitzto sell premiumNov 18 15:20
schestowitzand propublica did many investigationsNov 18 15:20
schestowitzand that yielded resultsNov 18 15:20
schestowitzgraftNov 18 15:20
schestowitzIRS was supposed to punish MicrosoftNov 18 15:21
schestowitzfollow the moneyNov 18 15:21
schestowitzUS government is likely more corrupt than oursNov 18 15:21
scientesschestowitz, at least your government decided that it wanted to taste sweet soverignityNov 18 15:21
scientesexcept they don't know what that meansNov 18 15:21
scientes 18 15:22
schestowitzscientes: when did they evict Liz and her boys?Nov 18 15:22
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oiaohmXRevan86: Java is about the second biggest grip in most places.   The most common worse is Microsoft SQL database wackyness.Nov 18 15:37
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oiaohmMind you that is commonly linked.   Someone made something in java on windows with the free version MS sql server and now it landed on you to fix up that it works on a Linux box.Nov 18 15:38
XRevan86oiaohm: At least that's more localisedNov 18 15:55
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MinceR 18 16:53
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4845815)Nov 18 16:53
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DaemonFC[m]Java is okay. I'm glad that Sun freed OpenJDK or else Android would be in serious danger.Nov 18 17:06
DaemonFC[m]Android Runtime is becoming a more and more important part of Chrome OS.Nov 18 17:06
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MinceRandroid is in serious danger neverthelessNov 18 17:09
MinceRand so is everyone else who uses java successfullyNov 18 17:09
MinceR 18 17:10
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4845476)Nov 18 17:10
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vZS1Last time I checked, Android was shifting heavily toward Kotlin and DartNov 18 18:07
XRevan86Kotlin is JVMNov 18 18:09
vZS1AhNov 18 18:09
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XRevan86It's seeing insane rates of adoption, yes.Nov 18 18:09
vZS1Tbf, a lot of stuff is built on JVM. Clojure, for example.Nov 18 18:10
scientesyes, Java has two languagesNov 18 18:10
scientesand success of JVM meant that GCC's native-compiled Java crumbled (also JDK/JVM finally opened up, despite that stupid Oracle v. Google suit)Nov 18 18:11
scientesI meant one of the original JavaSoft employees in SF once (before the Sun acquisition)Nov 18 18:11
scientesand he still has a sour taste about CNov 18 18:12
scientes*I metNov 18 18:13
scientesit was at a Docker hack-festNov 18 18:14
scientesat Docker's headquarters in the financial districtNov 18 18:14
vZS1From what I've been seeing, Google are pushing Flutter and Dart really hard.Nov 18 18:14
scientesvZS1, yes they are, and they are reporting huge up-tick in China (Go is also massive there)Nov 18 18:15
vZS1I don't know if Kotlin is losing out on attention. Haven't got a clue with Google. Never know what they're going to push or drop.Nov 18 18:16
scientesI don't want to loss the experience of having a free compilerNov 18 18:16
scientes*looseNov 18 18:16
XRevan86* loosenNov 18 18:16
scientesand I also am struggling to get into FPGAs, and the non-free toolchains built on LLVM are a big problemNov 18 18:16
scientesi.e. Richard Stallman was rightNov 18 18:17
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Graphics: Mesa and AMD Radeon โ€ข ๐Ÿ…ƒ๐Ÿ…„๐Ÿ…‡ ๐Ÿ„ผ๐Ÿ„ฐ๐Ÿ„ฒ๐Ÿ„ท๐Ÿ„ธ๐Ÿ„ฝ๐Ÿ„ด๐Ÿ…‚ โ˜ž []Nov 18 18:20
MinceR 18 18:20
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4844055)Nov 18 18:20
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DaemonFC[m]Yeah, Element has been rewritten in Kotlin.Nov 18 18:22
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DaemonFC[m]Some Ohio idiots infected half of the 87 people at their wedding party and then said gee what were the chances.Nov 18 18:24
DaemonFC[m] 18 18:24
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Almost half of guests test positive for coronavirus after Ohio wedding - The Washington PostNov 18 18:24
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CrystalMathDaemonFC[m]: i don't think even one is going to die thoughNov 18 18:32
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MinceRthey're immortal?Nov 18 18:35
MinceR(cat) (no audio) 18 18:36
schestowitz[18:35] <MinceR> they're immortal?Nov 18 18:37
schestowitzIn boats that had covid19 spreading dozens diedNov 18 18:37
schestowitzMinceR: oddly enough it can play with Firefox on my sideNov 18 18:39
schestowitzbut not Rianne'sNov 18 18:39
schestowitzboth are the same OSNov 18 18:39
MinceRmaybe one of them is missing some codecs or other librariesNov 18 18:40
schestowitzmpegs as 'pages'Nov 18 18:41
CrystalMathMinceR: they won't die of covidNov 18 18:41
MinceRCrystalMath: over 250k people in uhmerica already died of COVID-19Nov 18 18:42
CrystalMathso?Nov 18 18:44
CrystalMathmany more died for other reasonsNov 18 18:44
CrystalMathmany were old and had to die anywayNov 18 18:45
MinceReverybody has to dieNov 18 18:45
CrystalMathyeah but i meanNov 18 18:45
CrystalMathit was timeNov 18 18:45
MinceRthat doesn't change the cause of deathNov 18 18:45
CrystalMathwell i never said the virus was nothingNov 18 18:47
CrystalMathi just said the virus kills very very fewNov 18 18:47
CrystalMathit's still somethingNov 18 18:47
CrystalMathand it can get those who would have died this year anywayNov 18 18:48
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MinceR 18 19:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4844051)Nov 18 19:05
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schestowitz[18:47] <CrystalMath> i just said the virus kills very very fewNov 18 19:08
schestowitzlolNov 18 19:08
schestowitzonly 1.5 millionNov 18 19:08
CrystalMathdid you really expect less people to die this year?Nov 18 19:08
vZS1More than a lot of warsNov 18 19:08
CrystalMathyou do realize 60 million die every yearNov 18 19:09
CrystalMaththat's more than a lot of wars tooNov 18 19:09
schestowitzfrom causes that can be prevented at timesNov 18 19:09
schestowitzlike car accidentsNov 18 19:09
schestowitzuntil you find vaccine against car accidents, I'll side with mortality expertsNov 18 19:09
CrystalMathokay but why is 1.5 million more important than the other 58.5 million?Nov 18 19:09
schestowitzthe causeNov 18 19:09
CrystalMathso?Nov 18 19:10
schestowitzand the potential of 150 million dead if everyone gets itNov 18 19:10
CrystalMathcovid can be preventedNov 18 19:10
CrystalMaththere's masksNov 18 19:10
schestowitzand hospitals cannot cater for people with things like canceNov 18 19:10
schestowitz*cancerNov 18 19:10
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CrystalMathit's all prevantable, except *something* gets you invariablyNov 18 19:10
schestowitzwaste of timeNov 18 19:10
schestowitzbyeNov 18 19:10
CrystalMathin other words, you can't defend your insane fear of covid-19Nov 18 19:11
CrystalMathit's completely irrationalNov 18 19:11
CrystalMathexcept for the fact that humans are always afraid of the unknownNov 18 19:11
CrystalMaththat's how i justify my own fear earlier this yearNov 18 19:11
vZS1I still fail to grasp how it's so hard to wear a mask, practice social distancing, and being a bit more careful with hygiene.Nov 18 19:12
CrystalMathi thought this thing is gonna kill an additional 50 millionNov 18 19:12
CrystalMathof course that didn't happenNov 18 19:12
CrystalMathit strikes me that people just have no idea how many people "normally" die all the timeNov 18 19:12
CrystalMath1.5 million is a normal weekNov 18 19:12
CrystalMathyes, that many die every weekNov 18 19:13
CrystalMathit may seem like a lotNov 18 19:13
CrystalMathbut it's really notNov 18 19:13
CrystalMathbecause 2 million are bornNov 18 19:13
CrystalMathwe're so overpopulated that we've become but drops in a streamNov 18 19:13
CrystalMathyou can't even pretend to care about human life when it shuffles around his quicklyNov 18 19:14
CrystalMath*thisNov 18 19:14
CrystalMathi wish it was slower, i wish we had less births and less deathsNov 18 19:14
vZS1Christmas time will probably see a sharp rise in cases. Our lockdown will probably be lifted by then and everyone will hit the pubsNov 18 19:15
vZS1Our = UKNov 18 19:15
CrystalMathit's no wonder that people have become some hatefulNov 18 19:17
CrystalMathhow can anyone's life have value when they get replaced 2 million fold every weekNov 18 19:17
CrystalMathand no wonder everything's descending to fascismNov 18 19:17
CrystalMaththe government can just kill those who disagree with themNov 18 19:18
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CrystalMathi mean even if they killed a thousand per day it would make NO dentNov 18 19:18
CrystalMathit's sadNov 18 19:18
CrystalMathit's horribleNov 18 19:18
schestowitz[19:11] <CrystalMath> in other words, you can't defend your insane fear of covid-19Nov 18 19:19
schestowitznopeNov 18 19:19
schestowitzI have the same policy for climate 'debates'Nov 18 19:20
schestowitzsome things are repeatedly proving to be a waste of timeNov 18 19:20
CrystalMathyou can't defend that eitherNov 18 19:21
CrystalMathi say humans have no right to change the climate of the planetNov 18 19:21
CrystalMathand that goes both waysNov 18 19:21
CrystalMathno destroying it, but no fixing it eitherNov 18 19:21
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Librem 5 Mass Production Phone Has Begun Shipping []Nov 18 19:31
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DaemonFC[m]Bill Gates has a bunch of bandaid fixes for the climate too which wouldn't work.Nov 18 20:50
DaemonFC[m]These ideas are the sort of stuff that maybe you can just nuke a hurricane.Nov 18 20:50
schestowitzthey're fraudsNov 18 20:51
schestowitzthen again, some people are wired since birth only to pursue moneyNov 18 20:51
schestowitzthe PR angle is leveraged when public backlash threatens the revenueNov 18 20:52
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schestowitz>> This is an anti-pattern in systemd too-- they take no responsibilityNov 18 21:46
schestowitz>> for breaking anything and always pass the buck upstream.Nov 18 21:46
schestowitz>>Nov 18 21:46
schestowitz>> "You broke XYZ"Nov 18 21:46
schestowitz>>Nov 18 21:46
schestowitz>> "No we didn't, we followed their documentation to the letter. TheirNov 18 21:46
schestowitz>> own implementation is broken have upstream fix their stuff insteadNov 18 21:46
schestowitz>> #WONTFIX"Nov 18 21:46
schestowitz>>Nov 18 21:46
schestowitz>> Ignoring of course that IT WORKED UNTIL THEY FUCKED WITH IT. SoNov 18 21:46
schestowitz>> they've taken something that works and moved the fix from where it's aNov 18 21:46
schestowitz>> fix to upstream where it's someone else's bug report. Very neighbourlyNov 18 21:46
schestowitz>> of them.Nov 18 21:46
schestowitz>>Nov 18 21:46
schestowitz>>Nov 18 21:46
schestowitz>>Nov 18 21:46
schestowitz>> > never have occurred. Rather than be angry at Lenovo, let's putNov 18 21:46
schestowitz>> pressure on Intel to provide support for their hardware."Nov 18 21:46
schestowitz>>Nov 18 21:47
schestowitz>> Don't bother Lenovo about Lenovo products, let's put pressure onNov 18 21:47
schestowitz>> Intel, not vendors who dump shit on you.Nov 18 21:47
schestowitz>>Nov 18 21:47
schestowitz>> If you buy a camping lantern and it blows up your garage, don't takeNov 18 21:47
schestowitz>> it up with the lantern manufacturers, put pressure on Big Oil to makeNov 18 21:47
schestowitz>> their fuels more stable.Nov 18 21:47
schestowitz>>Nov 18 21:47
schestowitz>> There's a funny little valve in them made by GarbleFiddleCorp, you'reNov 18 21:47
schestowitz>> just ridiculous to bother the lantern people about this, don't you getNov 18 21:47
schestowitz>> it? They don't actually make anything. They're really just a glorifiedNov 18 21:47
schestowitz>> online payments system.Nov 18 21:47
schestowitz>>Nov 18 21:47
schestowitz>>Nov 18 21:47
schestowitz>> Both parties failed to support users. If Intel fails to support themNov 18 21:47
schestowitz>> and then Lenovo fails, You can put more pressure on Intel and Lenovo,Nov 18 21:47
schestowitz>> and even put more pressure on Intel BY putting pressure on Lenovo, whoNov 18 21:47
schestowitz>> then will tell Intel "Hey, people hate our products with your shit inNov 18 21:47
schestowitz>> them."Nov 18 21:47
schestowitz>>Nov 18 21:47
schestowitz>> For some reason though, this concept doesn't appeal to everyone.Nov 18 21:47
schestowitz>> Lenovo did their best man, they don't make platform controller hubs,Nov 18 21:47
schestowitz>> leave them alone!Nov 18 21:47
schestowitz> Looking at Python, there is a very similar anti-pattern going on, asNov 18 21:47
schestowitz> they break their own work.  Interestingly, from the very beginning, VanNov 18 21:47
schestowitz> Rossum avoided logical and sematic specifications for the PythonNov 18 21:47
schestowitz> Language, asking everyone to refer  to the CPython implementation asNov 18 21:47
schestowitz> "the standard'.  What this does is to guarantee that any otherNov 18 21:47
schestowitz> implementation has a second-class status, and any difference isNov 18 21:47
schestowitz> essentially a "bug".  And even worse, he has maintained a moving targetNov 18 21:47
schestowitz> so any other implementation will always be deficient (or different) inNov 18 21:47
schestowitz> some way - and this is true even of his own previous releases (seeNov 18 21:47
schestowitz> Python 2).  Upon reflection, rather than a practical way to make rapidNov 18 21:47
schestowitz> progress, this can be seen as a diabolical scheme to maintain a powerNov 18 21:47
schestowitz> relationship.  No wonder he was called "Dictator".Nov 18 21:47
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kingoffranceeh, not that i really ever got into python, but the opposite is just as bad; standard doc with no implementation == vapourware "a diabolical scheme to maintain a power relationship".   i suspect the ideal is a mix, where docs reflect reality rather than a pipedreamNov 18 22:11
kingoffrancei am using standard and "docs" interchangeablyNov 18 22:12
kingoffrancebut i dont think thats a stretch, same issueNov 18 22:12
kingoffrancelikewise, "tests" enters into this.  docs with no tests, what good would a standard do if theres no way to test an implementation conforms or not?Nov 18 22:13
kingoffranceso id put "tests" as the bridge between these 2 thingsNov 18 22:14
kingoffranceof course, someone could argue java or something went too far in that direction tooNov 18 22:15
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kingoffranceyou can even draw a triangle   code/tests/docs    and then any point warped too far could be considered "bad"Nov 18 22:20
*kingoffrance patents triangle paradigm, rakes in billions as a consultant, vanishes just before it all collapsesNov 18 22:23
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schestowitz 18 22:45
-TechrightsBot-tr/ Organisations Are/nโ€™t the Problem โ€ข ๐Ÿ†ƒ๐Ÿ…ด๐Ÿ…ฒ๐Ÿ…ท๐Ÿ†๐Ÿ…ธ๐Ÿ…ถ๐Ÿ…ท๐Ÿ†ƒ๐Ÿ†‚ โ˜ž โ€ขโ—โ€ข #Techrights #GNU #Linux #FreeSW #FSFNov 18 22:45
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> | Organisations Are/nโ€™t the Problem | TechrightsNov 18 22:45
DaemonFC[m]RE: systemd taking no responsibility for anything.Nov 18 22:46
DaemonFC[m]Yet another reason to be on a long term support distribution where they carefully backport certain patches only.Nov 18 22:46
DaemonFC[m]In addition to broken kernel series, Fedora will throw in random cherry picks from systemd that cause severe issues when they're really not worth the risk.Nov 18 22:47
DaemonFC[m]Unless it's a serious crasher, a sizable memory leak, or has security implications, leave it the hell alone.Nov 18 22:48
DaemonFC[m]Unfortunately, systemd is so poorly designed that there are hundreds if not thousands of THOSE over an Ubuntu LTS lifespan that have to be dealt with.Nov 18 22:48
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DaemonFC[m]I think it's one of those things that's here and maybe we try to make the best of the situation later.Nov 18 23:29
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vZS1Go is actually very good in the sense that it had a spec and a solid reference implementationNov 18 23:42
vZS1s/had/hasNov 18 23:42
vZS1Raku also good, in that regardNov 18 23:43
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vZS1Haskell also Nov 18 23:45
vZS1Rust has no spec and that's what really put me off taking the language seriouslyNov 18 23:45
vZS1You can't keep up with a language that has no specification and is constantly changing. Only the language architects know what's going on, at that point.Nov 18 23:47
vZS1"Just do things like this. You don't need to understand how it is supposed to work."Nov 18 23:52

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