To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| _Hicham_ | he was president due to his genealogy | Mar 14 21:16 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | In a world where a country is powerful enough, the laws is aughed upon | Mar 14 21:16 |
| balzac | Don't ask me why he subverted our military and our constitution. | Mar 14 21:16 |
| schestowitz | Reminds me of MS in IT.. | Mar 14 21:16 |
| _Hicham_ | he even participated to 9/11 | Mar 14 21:16 |
| balzac | Bush's every action were those of a man who hated America with a fiery passion. | Mar 14 21:16 |
| schestowitz | Law is just a recommendation, not a boundry | Mar 14 21:16 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft bribed? OOPS. | Mar 14 21:16 |
| schestowitz | Sorry about that... | Mar 14 21:16 |
| schestowitz | That would be bad publicity | Mar 14 21:16 |
| schestowitz | But never will you see Steve and Bill brought to trial. | Mar 14 21:17 |
| schestowitz | In the US, rich people can't go to jail | Mar 14 21:17 |
| schestowitz | There's the notion ogf bail or settlement | Mar 14 21:17 |
| _Hicham_ | in all the world | Mar 14 21:17 |
| schestowitz | Which means th nation would accept a bribe to let the people go | Mar 14 21:17 |
| trmanco | Digg messed up the recomendation engine | Mar 14 21:17 |
| _Hicham_ | except scandinavian countries | Mar 14 21:17 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: no genealogy, he stole the election | Mar 14 21:17 |
| schestowitz | Bush never really won the 200 election | Mar 14 21:18 |
| schestowitz | It was a fraud | Mar 14 21:18 |
| trmanco | I have 1 frontpage article in the upcoming/recommended page | Mar 14 21:18 |
| schestowitz | *2000 | Mar 14 21:18 |
| trmanco | wtf | Mar 14 21:18 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: Digg is broken | Mar 14 21:18 |
| *trmanco thinks on making his own social site | Mar 14 21:18 | |
| schestowitz | And it's gamed heavily so I don't even bother reading it. It declines overalll. | Mar 14 21:18 |
| schestowitz | They maybe should have sold, but I'm glad they didn't | Mar 14 21:19 |
| trmanco | I have a screen, if you want proof | Mar 14 21:19 |
| schestowitz | OK, put in ohotobucket | Mar 14 21:19 |
| schestowitz | *poto | Mar 14 21:19 |
| schestowitz | *photo | Mar 14 21:19 |
| Balrog__ | heh | Mar 14 21:19 |
| _Hicham_ | balzac : did u setup ur desktop well? | Mar 14 21:20 |
| schestowitz | balzac: new one: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics... (Secret emails show Iraq dossier was 'sexed up') | Mar 14 21:21 |
| seller_liar | schestowitz: No roy, In Brazil it's not known | Mar 14 21:21 |
| schestowitz | seller_liar: still a newcomer | Mar 14 21:21 |
| schestowitz | What's amazing is that almost 8 years later they manage to find more evidence of corruption from high up at the top -- stuff that couldn't be found for so many years | Mar 14 21:22 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, will Tinypic do? It belong to Photobcucket | Mar 14 21:22 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: sure | Mar 14 21:22 |
| trmanco | belongs | Mar 14 21:22 |
| balzac | Roy, remember the guy who originally introduced the phrase "sexed up" in the context of the Iraq war sales pitch? | Mar 14 21:22 |
| trmanco | maybe I should host it too, for future reference | Mar 14 21:22 |
| balzac | Found dead, full of sleeping pills, wrists slit. | Mar 14 21:22 |
| balzac | Consider him a murder victim of the Bush/Blair crime syndicate. | Mar 14 21:23 |
| balzac | Tony Blair - Bush's man-servant | Mar 14 21:23 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, http://i44.tinypic.com/j7qfjn.jpg | Mar 14 21:23 |
| trmanco | the one with 322 diggs is on the frontpage | Mar 14 21:24 |
| schestowitz | Corporate legal scrambles to withdraw inflated Palm Pre claims < http://www.roughlydrafted.com/200... > | Mar 14 21:24 |
| schestowitz | balzac: I seee... | Mar 14 21:24 |
| schestowitz | David Kelly, right? | Mar 14 21:24 |
| schestowitz | we discussed this in IRC last year | Mar 14 21:24 |
| balzac | Tony Blair should only get 10 years in prison as part of a plea-bargain deal. He has to deliver the goods to jail Bush for life. | Mar 14 21:24 |
| balzac | yep | Mar 14 21:24 |
| schestowitz | Mysterious death that seems like elimination as much as a suicide | Mar 14 21:25 |
| balzac | he was just about to testify, and he was angry, not depressed. | Mar 14 21:25 |
| balzac | and he was afraid for his life. | Mar 14 21:25 |
| balzac | lots of people died like that during Bush's reign | Mar 14 21:26 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: is it s bug? | Mar 14 21:26 |
| schestowitz | Or was it denied entry? | Mar 14 21:26 |
| trmanco | IMO, it's a bug | Mar 14 21:26 |
| balzac | I think he was a victim of the executive assassination ring Sy Hersch mentioned recently | Mar 14 21:26 |
| trmanco | first time this happened to me | Mar 14 21:26 |
| balzac | ok, time for me to get some work done | Mar 14 21:26 |
| schestowitz | Digg is so bizarre. But if I submit and let it just do its thing I can make FP after 70 diggs. Those who cheat need much more... over 1000 | Mar 14 21:27 |
| schestowitz | *!00 | Mar 14 21:27 |
| tacone | schestowitz: will you ever accept my friendship on digg ? :P | Mar 14 21:27 |
| schestowitz | tacone: does it need confirmation? | Mar 14 21:27 |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Mar 14 21:27 | |
| schestowitz | I'm already maxed up on number of friends added (1001) | Mar 14 21:27 |
| tacone | oh | Mar 14 21:27 |
| tacone | leave it alone then. | Mar 14 21:28 |
| tacone | i am already your 'fan' on digg. that's sufficent | Mar 14 21:28 |
| balzac | enjoy these photos of Bora Bora | Mar 14 21:28 |
| balzac | http://www.latimes.com/tra... | Mar 14 21:28 |
| schestowitz | A lot of 'friends' are bots | Mar 14 21:28 |
| schestowitz | Silly spammer create them and then mass-add | Mar 14 21:28 |
| tacone | so what ? i am a bot myself. | Mar 14 21:28 |
| schestowitz | Some sort of network harvesting or something | Mar 14 21:28 |
| tacone | balzac: any higher resolution version ? | Mar 14 21:29 |
| schestowitz | balzac: 6th pic is soothing, then I saw the 7th (shark) | Mar 14 21:29 |
| schestowitz | balzac: does Bora Bora suffer from a credit /crunch/? :-) | Mar 14 21:30 |
| balzac | I know nothing about bora bora, but I'm working for a travel agency, so I found those pics in the course of a day at work. | Mar 14 21:31 |
| balzac | tacone: wysiwyg | Mar 14 21:31 |
| tacone | sigh | Mar 14 21:32 |
| schestowitz | balzac: dreams have limitations: http://www.panoramio.com/ph... | Mar 14 21:33 |
| Balrog__ | :/ | Mar 14 21:34 |
| schestowitz | Stormy weather... never like in the catalogs... also Google Maps there. | Mar 14 21:34 |
| Balrog__ | if only everyone would use unicode.... | Mar 14 21:34 |
| schestowitz | Too many bits | Mar 14 21:34 |
| *Balrog__ is now known as Balrog_ | Mar 14 21:34 | |
| *seller_liar has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | Mar 14 21:35 | |
| _Hicham_ | Balrog : if microsoft go down, everyone will use unicode | Mar 14 21:36 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/w... | Mar 14 21:36 |
| _Hicham_ | sexy bora bora during storm | Mar 14 21:38 |
| schestowitz | "A series of devastating events killed or removed almost the entire population of Easter Island in the 1860s. In December 1862, Peruvian slave raiders struck Easter Island. Violent abductions continued for several months, eventually capturing or killing around 1500 men and women, about half of the island's population" | Mar 14 21:38 |
| Balrog_ | in this case, the person I got files from used Pagemaker (obsolete); does not want to buy InDesign or re-learn stuff. | Mar 14 21:40 |
| _Hicham_ | Balrog : he should use LaTeX | Mar 14 21:43 |
| _Hicham_ | :D | Mar 14 21:43 |
| Balrog_ | don't you get "or re-learn stuff"? | Mar 14 21:45 |
| Balrog_ | WYSIWYG | Mar 14 21:45 |
| _Hicham_ | WYSIWYG is not always good | Mar 14 21:46 |
| _Hicham_ | and u know that | Mar 14 21:46 |
| Balrog_ | well, it does help | Mar 14 21:46 |
| Balrog_ | not everyone is a geek. | Mar 14 21:47 |
| _Hicham_ | Maybe OpenOffice.org then | Mar 14 21:47 |
| Balrog_ | that could work | Mar 14 21:47 |
| Balrog_ | there's an app called scribus designed for that though | Mar 14 21:48 |
| Balrog_ | FOSS | Mar 14 21:48 |
| MinceR | 225430 < Balrog_> not everyone is a geek. | Mar 14 21:49 |
| MinceR | not everyone has access to mind-reading computers either :> | Mar 14 21:49 |
| Balrog_ | I'm not talking about myself | Mar 14 21:49 |
| *amarsh04__ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-29-112.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 14 21:49 | |
| Balrog_ | computers should give users options | Mar 14 21:50 |
| Balrog_ | if users want to do it by hand, let them | Mar 14 21:50 |
| Balrog_ | if users want WYSIWYG, let them | Mar 14 21:50 |
| _Hicham_ | scribus looks great | Mar 14 21:52 |
| schestowitz | It is great | Mar 14 21:52 |
| schestowitz | a friend of mine who works in a publishing house says that she and other there use it | Mar 14 21:52 |
| schestowitz | They dump the Microsoft software and other stuff like Adobe. They use Linux too. | Mar 14 21:53 |
| _Hicham_ | Great, a publishing house with Linux | Mar 14 21:54 |
| _Hicham_ | ! | Mar 14 21:54 |
| schestowitz | There are many that use latex or lyx. knuth uses ubuntu | Mar 14 22:01 |
| Balrog_ | schestowitz: many people still use wordperfect | Mar 14 22:03 |
| trmanco | http://www.youtube.com/wat... | Mar 14 22:03 |
| Balrog_ | simply because it's both wysiwyg and has 'codes' | Mar 14 22:03 |
| trmanco | Windows is a problem to Windows | Mar 14 22:03 |
| Balrog_ | s/some/many | Mar 14 22:04 |
| _Hicham_ | Knuth uses Ubuntu? | Mar 14 22:04 |
| *amarsh04_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Mar 14 22:04 | |
| _Hicham_ | Shuttleworth must be flattered | Mar 14 22:05 |
| _Hicham_ | they must to the study cases | Mar 14 22:05 |
| _Hicham_ | who uses drupal in here? | Mar 14 22:05 |
| _Hicham_ | no one | Mar 14 22:06 |
| _Hicham_ | ? | Mar 14 22:06 |
| schestowitz | OSS illusion: http://www.informationweek.com/new... | Mar 14 22:06 |
| schestowitz | "The Idou is the first smartphone to officially announce it will run the open source Symbian operating system, which is expected to be completed next year. Nokia shocked many last year when it purchased the remaining shares of Symbian and said it would turn it into a royalty-free, open source operating system for smartphones. " | Mar 14 22:07 |
| schestowitz | Symbian/Nokia just tries to blur gaps. | Mar 14 22:07 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: but not GNOME | Mar 14 22:07 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: I get a headache just watching it | Mar 14 22:09 |
| trmanco | lol | Mar 14 22:09 |
| _Hicham_ | Roy : what has gnome to do with that? | Mar 14 22:09 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: http://www.reddit.com/comments/6h5fh/k... | Mar 14 22:09 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: Windows crash log. imagine if cars had that..... | Mar 14 22:10 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, cars would not existe then | Mar 14 22:11 |
| trmanco | exist* | Mar 14 22:11 |
| tacone | horses ? | Mar 14 22:11 |
| _Hicham_ | a crash log for cars? | Mar 14 22:12 |
| _Hicham_ | no one uses drupal in here? | Mar 14 22:14 |
| _Hicham_ | no one? | Mar 14 22:15 |
| _Hicham_ | roy uses wordpress? | Mar 14 22:15 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: point is... | Mar 14 22:15 |
| _Hicham_ | what do u use Balrog? | Mar 14 22:15 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft should go ahead to prevent crashed | Mar 14 22:15 |
| schestowitz | *crashes | Mar 14 22:15 |
| schestowitz | Not just report them | Mar 14 22:15 |
| schestowitz | Diagnostics = symptoms, not cure | Mar 14 22:15 |
| trmanco | they won't | Mar 14 22:16 |
| trmanco | they prefer advertising, lipstick | Mar 14 22:16 |
| schestowitz | In Linux it's kernel "oops" | Mar 14 22:16 |
| schestowitz | KDE crashes are very, very rare | Mar 14 22:16 |
| schestowitz | COmmon in 4.0 I hear | Mar 14 22:16 |
| _Hicham_ | gnome crashed only two times for me | Mar 14 22:17 |
| _Hicham_ | one time because of java | Mar 14 22:17 |
| schestowitz | I wonder if people are born sensitive to advertising | Mar 14 22:17 |
| _Hicham_ | and the second time because of matlab | Mar 14 22:17 |
| schestowitz | Or maybe it's something that arrives through indoctrination (education) | Mar 14 22:17 |
| _Hicham_ | Roy : you are an advertiser too | Mar 14 22:18 |
| schestowitz | There's the theory about subconscious penetrating judgment | Mar 14 22:18 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: you could claim this about making any opinion | Mar 14 22:18 |
| schestowitz | But I'm thinking about "proprganda"/PR | Mar 14 22:19 |
| schestowitz | When it's done in an organised fashion to deceive | Mar 14 22:19 |
| schestowitz | Like sell a war | Mar 14 22:19 |
| schestowitz | Or sell people a product they need | Mar 14 22:19 |
| schestowitz | When deceiving people becomes an occupation | Mar 14 22:19 |
| _Hicham_ | u should learn from they Roy | Mar 14 22:20 |
| _Hicham_ | if u want to combat ur enemy, u better learn from him | Mar 14 22:20 |
| schestowitz | Blankenhorn is sort of trolling OSS again. | Mar 14 22:22 |
| _Hicham_ | and u should have a big beard to combat microsoft | Mar 14 22:22 |
| schestowitz | Headlines like "Is the new open source Eurolicense eurotrash?" and "PC moment for open source may lack profit " | Mar 14 22:22 |
| schestowitz | And MOG (Microsoft shill) is trying to stick together Microsoft and OSS | Mar 14 22:23 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I don't advertise | Mar 14 22:23 |
| schestowitz | I expose their startegy | Mar 14 22:23 |
| schestowitz | Things like shill agencies, dumping, bribes, etc. Zuck, CompTIA etc... teaching how brutally corrupt the system is | Mar 14 22:24 |
| schestowitz | You don't fight the pig by wrestling with it in the mud. You both get dirty this way... | Mar 14 22:24 |
| Balrog_ | _Hicham_: I use what is available at the moment | Mar 14 22:25 |
| _Hicham_ | so no one in here is using drupal:-( | Mar 14 22:26 |
| balzac | _Hicham_: | Mar 14 22:26 |
| balzac | I use Drupal | Mar 14 22:26 |
| Balrog_ | drupal for...? | Mar 14 22:26 |
| balzac | websites | Mar 14 22:27 |
| balzac | what else is it good for? | Mar 14 22:27 |
| schestowitz | The banner and blog looks much better now: Negative Approach is now Software, Interrupted < http://news.cnet.com/8301-1384... > | Mar 14 22:27 |
| tacone | drupal makes also good coffee | Mar 14 22:27 |
| schestowitz | Dripp drip.. | Mar 14 22:27 |
| benJIman | schestowitz: "Novell have released" is a bit inaccurate when the work isn't done by a novell employee and it's not released by novell | Mar 14 22:29 |
| _Hicham_ | balzac : do u use the xmlsitemap module? | Mar 14 22:29 |
| balzac | not yet. Don't you need a special php extension for that? | Mar 14 22:29 |
| balzac | xdebug to enable back-tracing for the purpose of mapping? | Mar 14 22:29 |
| _Hicham_ | what php extension? | Mar 14 22:30 |
| balzac | xdebug | Mar 14 22:30 |
| _Hicham_ | nothing is mentioned in the doc | Mar 14 22:30 |
| balzac | lemme see | Mar 14 22:30 |
| _Hicham_ | ok | Mar 14 22:30 |
| schestowitz | benJIman: I know | Mar 14 22:31 |
| schestowitz | It's accurate | Mar 14 22:31 |
| schestowitz | Novell is people | Mar 14 22:31 |
| schestowitz | beineri is Novell | Mar 14 22:31 |
| schestowitz | I forgot his full name now... | Mar 14 22:31 |
| benJIman | schestowitz: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3902 | Mar 14 22:32 |
| balzac | http://drupal.org/project/site_map | Mar 14 22:32 |
| balzac | that's a different module, _Hicham_ | Mar 14 22:32 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: to hell with Novell (it rhymes) | Mar 14 22:33 |
| schestowitz | He's one of their better people | Mar 14 22:33 |
| Balrog_ | heh | Mar 14 22:33 |
| schestowitz | Don'rworry | Mar 14 22:33 |
| schestowitz | His wage is not gone | Mar 14 22:33 |
| balzac | http://drupal.org/project/vis... <-- this is the one I was thinking of, _Hicham_ | Mar 14 22:34 |
| schestowitz | Hovo Sapient can build a new sauna at homne | Mar 14 22:34 |
| balzac | xml site map doesn't have a version for Drupal 6 yet | Mar 14 22:34 |
| schestowitz | $8 million in bonuses for one year can buy loads | Mar 14 22:34 |
| _Hicham_ | xmlsitemap is for submitting sitemap to search engines | Mar 14 22:34 |
| _Hicham_ | yes | Mar 14 22:34 |
| _Hicham_ | that is my problem balzac | Mar 14 22:34 |
| _Hicham_ | the dev version doesnt work | Mar 14 22:34 |
| balzac | Hovo Sapient sounds like an evil scientist | Mar 14 22:34 |
| balzac | who is trying to evolve himself to the next level of evolution to attain supremecy over everyone else | Mar 14 22:35 |
| balzac | Hovo Sapient, the mad, megalo-maniacal doctor who is his own greatest experiment | Mar 14 22:35 |
| schestowitz | "Just out of curiosity, why did Novell fire so many OpenSuSE developers? AFAIK, you were a good employee and a talented developer (unless N is planning to drop KDE >:(. (no, I don't want to start a conspiracy theory.))" | Mar 14 22:36 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: he works with Uncle Fester | Mar 14 22:36 |
| schestowitz | balzac: | Mar 14 22:36 |
| balzac | Roy, he already extracted their DNA with syringes and their egos through special cranial-caps, so they're useless to him now. | Mar 14 22:37 |
| schestowitz | "I€´m getting worry about the future openSUSE project." | Mar 14 22:37 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: well, good luck to him | Mar 14 22:37 |
| balzac | He has absorbed their vital essences to increase his vitality | Mar 14 22:37 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6rqXHX3O48 | Mar 14 22:38 |
| balzac | Why was Steve Ballmer sweating and screaming "Developers, developers, developers!" | Mar 14 22:38 |
| balzac | Because Steve Ballmer also extracts their vitality to make a special cognition-enhancing breakfast shake | Mar 14 22:38 |
| balzac | He has their brains liquified and sucked out through their ear canal | Mar 14 22:39 |
| balzac | At Microsoft, the executives can pull out any developer's heart-plug at any moment | Mar 14 22:39 |
| balzac | man, I should be the creative director for a game | Mar 14 22:40 |
| schestowitz | 3d? | Mar 14 22:40 |
| schestowitz | gnu+gurlz? | Mar 14 22:40 |
| schestowitz | How's dat comin' along. You us ya model !11 | Mar 14 22:41 |
| balzac | Roy, that was a good mash-up | Mar 14 22:42 |
| balzac | Roy, the game would be about Imperial Microsoft of the future and the free software rebels who resist them. | Mar 14 22:43 |
| balzac | Hovo Sapient, Ballmer, devourer of developers, MS authoritarianism in a macabe science fiction future | Mar 14 22:44 |
| balzac | the sound track would feature a lot of industrial drum & bass | Mar 14 22:44 |
| balzac | The proprietary software developers would not understand that they were being cognitively castrated by their overlords, their egos consumed by the executive class. | Mar 14 22:45 |
| *seller_liar (i=c92ad382@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-733882bac608d6e8) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 14 22:45 | |
| balzac | meanwhile, the free software guys are the most dangerous enemy of the empire because we still have full virility and the power to please the trophy wives of the overlords | Mar 14 22:46 |
| balzac | so the free software rebels are feared and reviled | Mar 14 22:46 |
| balzac | Roy, I'm glad this channel is logged because I'm on a roll here | Mar 14 22:46 |
| balzac | ok, back to work... | Mar 14 22:48 |
| Balrog_ | what do you guys think of non-foss freeware from independent developers? | Mar 14 22:52 |
| *tacone (n=tacone@213-156-53-16.ip.fastwebnet.it) has left #boycottnovell | Mar 14 22:53 | |
| schestowitz | balzac: hehe, thanks. | Mar 14 22:55 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: mostly harmless from my POV | Mar 14 22:55 |
| schestowitz | Freeware lags behind FOSS most of the time | Mar 14 22:56 |
| Balrog_ | what about low-cost stuff...like <= $40 | Mar 14 22:56 |
| Balrog_ | yes, in many cases | Mar 14 22:56 |
| schestowitz | It's also at risk of being abandonware | Mar 14 22:56 |
| Balrog_ | there are some cases where foss still needs work. | Mar 14 22:56 |
| Balrog_ | Yes, I've seen that :( | Mar 14 22:56 |
| schestowitz | Needs work =opportunity | Mar 14 22:56 |
| schestowitz | Like compiler which was a gap to be filled (GCC) | Mar 14 22:57 |
| Balrog_ | what do you think of LLVM and clang? | Mar 14 22:57 |
| schestowitz | I don't use LLVM | Mar 14 22:57 |
| Balrog_ | it's MIT-licensed | Mar 14 22:57 |
| Balrog_ | and may possibly replace GCC :O | Mar 14 22:58 |
| seller_liar | it 's not good | Mar 14 22:58 |
| Balrog_ | seller_liar: elaborate | Mar 14 22:58 |
| seller_liar | gcc is gplv3 , is a very important part of gnu linux system | Mar 14 22:59 |
| Balrog_ | yes. | Mar 14 22:59 |
| seller_liar | the gnu linux system cannot be infected with mit licenses | Mar 14 22:59 |
| Balrog_ | llvm license: http://llvm.org/releases/2.5... | Mar 14 22:59 |
| seller_liar | gnu linux is free | Mar 14 22:59 |
| Balrog_ | MIT license is like BSD license | Mar 14 22:59 |
| seller_liar | not permissive | Mar 14 22:59 |
| Balrog_ | no copyleft | Mar 14 23:00 |
| Balrog_ | but otherwise fully FOSS | Mar 14 23:00 |
| seller_liar | The gnu linux must maitain gcc ,because of license nature | Mar 14 23:00 |
| trmanco | http://gandolf.homelinux.org/blo... | Mar 14 23:00 |
| trmanco | hehe | Mar 14 23:00 |
| Balrog_ | (mit license is the correct name for X11 license) | Mar 14 23:00 |
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| balzac | I don't see open source licenses replacing free software licenses where it really matters | Mar 14 23:00 |
| seller_liar | Mit ,bsd and other permissive licenses permits proprietary software | Mar 14 23:01 |
| Balrog_ | yes. | Mar 14 23:01 |
| balzac | copyleft licenses keep a strong software community, acting as the social contract | Mar 14 23:01 |
| Balrog_ | it can be forked though ... right? | Mar 14 23:01 |
| Balrog_ | or even incorporated into gcc..... | Mar 14 23:01 |
| seller_liar | Yes | Mar 14 23:01 |
| Balrog_ | or am I wrong...? | Mar 14 23:01 |
| seller_liar | Some licenses permits , others not | Mar 14 23:01 |
| Balrog_ | well, clang is already useful for finding memory leaks :) | Mar 14 23:02 |
| balzac | The GNU project and the FSF need to shake down the fat cats | Mar 14 23:02 |
| seller_liar | This is a crazy project | Mar 14 23:02 |
| oiaohm | Forking licence like GPL might permit it but name of program can be trademarked | Mar 14 23:02 |
| Balrog_ | llvm is an acronym | Mar 14 23:02 |
| seller_liar | clang takes 3 or more years to complete | Mar 14 23:02 |
| Balrog_ | 'low level virtual machine' | Mar 14 23:02 |
| seller_liar | I don t like to repeat the same work | Mar 14 23:02 |
| seller_liar | We already have a good c compiler | Mar 14 23:03 |
| seller_liar | why another? | Mar 14 23:03 |
| Balrog_ | I understand that LLVM/Clang aren't just a c compiler | Mar 14 23:03 |
| oiaohm | What do you mean good? | Mar 14 23:03 |
| seller_liar | gcc is good | Mar 14 23:03 |
| oiaohm | Gcc still needs masive work so it works. | Mar 14 23:03 |
| Balrog_ | http://llvm.org/ | Mar 14 23:03 |
| seller_liar | LLVM is good , but clang is another repetitive task | Mar 14 23:03 |
| oiaohm | Lack of link time optimisation | Mar 14 23:03 |
| oiaohm | Histrotic hacked up structs. | Mar 14 23:03 |
| Balrog_ | clang is a frontend for LLVM | Mar 14 23:03 |
| seller_liar | We must focus in desktop area , not in development area | Mar 14 23:03 |
| Balrog_ | (c language) | Mar 14 23:03 |
| oiaohm | Do you want Linux to run with performance seller_liar | Mar 14 23:04 |
| seller_liar | linux is very good using gcc | Mar 14 23:04 |
| seller_liar | My machine is very powerful too | Mar 14 23:04 |
| oiaohm | Current Linux is limping speed compared to what it can be with portland group complier building same source code. | Mar 14 23:04 |
| seller_liar | Not all optimization is dependant of compiler | Mar 14 23:05 |
| seller_liar | for more speed , we need to create more dependant code | Mar 14 23:05 |
| oiaohm | Lack of linktime optimistation in current gcc cripples lot of programs. | Mar 14 23:05 |
| seller_liar | like liboil | Mar 14 23:05 |
| oiaohm | Lack of means to turn single threaded applications into multithreaded to take advantage of multi cores is another. | Mar 14 23:05 |
| seller_liar | I don t like C | Mar 14 23:05 |
| Balrog_ | seller_liar: Linux *is* C/C++ | Mar 14 23:06 |
| seller_liar | I like java ,eiffel , sather and lisaac | Mar 14 23:06 |
| seller_liar | I know | Mar 14 23:06 |
| oiaohm | Portland group complier has both. | Mar 14 23:06 |
| oiaohm | llvm was also designed to find secuirty flaws in programs. | Mar 14 23:06 |
| seller_liar | eiffel is amazing language | Mar 14 23:06 |
| seller_liar | I know , llvm is good | Mar 14 23:06 |
| seller_liar | but clang is another monotone task | Mar 14 23:07 |
| oiaohm | Its bit like gold linker vs ld. | Mar 14 23:07 |
| seller_liar | 3 or 5 years to complete | Mar 14 23:07 |
| seller_liar | http://liboil.freedesktop.org/wiki/ | Mar 14 23:07 |
| seller_liar | we need invest time in another more powerful languges | Mar 14 23:07 |
| seller_liar | for example | Mar 14 23:07 |
| seller_liar | Sather | Mar 14 23:07 |
| seller_liar | http://www.icsi.berkeley.edu/~s... | Mar 14 23:08 |
| oiaohm | use portland group complier some time seller_liar | Mar 14 23:08 |
| seller_liar | lisaac ( the real alternative to c) | Mar 14 23:08 |
| seller_liar | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisaac | Mar 14 23:08 |
| oiaohm | optimiser of portland group is magical. | Mar 14 23:08 |
| seller_liar | I don like c because is very old and easy to fail | Mar 14 23:09 |
| oiaohm | Again depends on the complier seller_liar | Mar 14 23:09 |
| seller_liar | no , | Mar 14 23:09 |
| oiaohm | It does seller_liar | Mar 14 23:09 |
| seller_liar | c needs a lot of code to do a simple task | Mar 14 23:09 |
| seller_liar | pointers ,arghhhh | Mar 14 23:10 |
| seller_liar | very dirty language | Mar 14 23:10 |
| seller_liar | Java is amazing | Mar 14 23:10 |
| seller_liar | is clean | Mar 14 23:10 |
| oiaohm | When developing drivers pointer is useful. | Mar 14 23:11 |
| seller_liar | have 3rd party support for contracts , aspects and a lot of other languahes | Mar 14 23:11 |
| seller_liar | I prefer lisaac | Mar 14 23:11 |
| seller_liar | Lissac is very good to system programming | Mar 14 23:11 |
| seller_liar | Look this benchmark | Mar 14 23:11 |
| seller_liar | people use c because of standarlization and portability and legacy | Mar 14 23:11 |
| seller_liar | http://isaacproject.u-strasbg... | Mar 14 23:12 |
| seller_liar | Lisaac is a incomplete languge but veeery powerful for system programming | Mar 14 23:12 |
| oiaohm | lissac is another in the lines http://www.ctalklang.org/ | Mar 14 23:12 |
| seller_liar | contracts , and OOP | Mar 14 23:12 |
| oiaohm | Many have been created over the years. Yet C remains. | Mar 14 23:13 |
| seller_liar | yes, I know, but c is old | Mar 14 23:13 |
| seller_liar | People use c because.... | Mar 14 23:13 |
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| seller_liar | a lot of people uses c! | Mar 14 23:13 |
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| oiaohm | Lot of people use C because C++ that in theory should have been better in performance is not. | Mar 14 23:14 |
| schestowitz | Hi, seller_liar | Mar 14 23:15 |
| *schestowitz catches up | Mar 14 23:15 | |
| seller_liar | schestowitz: hello roy | Mar 14 23:15 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: yes, because of flexibility | Mar 14 23:15 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: c is very dirty and and have a lot of hacks | Mar 14 23:15 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: but is very simple and very easy to destroy something | Mar 14 23:15 |
| oiaohm | Supprising hard to destory something with a complier that truly does audit your code. | Mar 14 23:16 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: maybe | Mar 14 23:16 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: But this is not a good solution | Mar 14 23:16 |
| oiaohm | C++ and C are both let down by the quality of there compliers. | Mar 14 23:17 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: Because of development of compilers | Mar 14 23:17 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: but we can create powerful compilers for java too | Mar 14 23:17 |
| oiaohm | Issue is way better compilers than MSVC and Gcc exist for C and C++. | Mar 14 23:17 |
| oiaohm | Problem is they are not free. | Mar 14 23:18 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: I don t like msvc | Mar 14 23:18 |
| oiaohm | msvc beats gcc in lots of cases because it has link time optimisation. | Mar 14 23:18 |
| oiaohm | Link time optimisation equals smaller and faster programs. | Mar 14 23:18 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm:and probably knows better windows api | Mar 14 23:18 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: Like icc | Mar 14 23:19 |
| oiaohm | icc slow compared to portland group. | Mar 14 23:19 |
| seller_liar | ICC and msvc is more fast because of knowledge of apis | Mar 14 23:19 |
| oiaohm | Nop | Mar 14 23:19 |
| seller_liar | Msvc is windows dependeent | Mar 14 23:19 |
| schestowitz | yes | Mar 14 23:20 |
| seller_liar | msvc compiled apps runs better in windows | Mar 14 23:20 |
| schestowitz | that's the thing | Mar 14 23:20 |
| schestowitz | You think win development | Mar 14 23:20 |
| schestowitz | Like that silly IE benchmark | Mar 14 23:20 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft spreads the illusion that IE is fast | Mar 14 23:20 |
| schestowitz | It only shows Windows | Mar 14 23:20 |
| seller_liar | icc compiler runs slow in some amd chips but runs fast in intel chips | Mar 14 23:20 |
| oiaohm | Build envorment yes. You can build MSVC embeded application without windows dependancy. | Mar 14 23:20 |
| schestowitz | It does the same game with office | Mar 14 23:20 |
| schestowitz | They build the OS to prod their wares | Mar 14 23:20 |
| schestowitz | Recall netscape trial | Mar 14 23:20 |
| schestowitz | Borland too | Mar 14 23:20 |
| oiaohm | Performance if MSVC on embed is still fast than gcc. | Mar 14 23:20 |
| schestowitz | I have lots of Comes docs I'll do later this years about it | Mar 14 23:21 |
| schestowitz | Criminal activity/dirty tricks | Mar 14 23:21 |
| schestowitz | So re: MSVC | Mar 14 23:21 |
| schestowitz | You're thinking about exe builds | Mar 14 23:21 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: This can happen ,but gcc 4.4 is doing a good work in optimization | Mar 14 23:21 |
| schestowitz | Think cross platform | Mar 14 23:21 |
| schestowitz | Windows is passe for many things | Mar 14 23:21 |
| schestowitz | People who are engineers use real systems, not WIndows | Mar 14 23:21 |
| oiaohm | Gcc is at long last catch up to what should have been done from the start. | Mar 14 23:22 |
| oiaohm | Gcc was designed with the foolish idea that linker had to provide link time optimisation and thread optimisation. | Mar 14 23:22 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: it gets support from big companies | Mar 14 23:22 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: but remember , gcc is portable ,have a lot of languges | Mar 14 23:22 |
| oiaohm | Same with portland group seller_liar | Mar 14 23:22 |
| schestowitz | You can't just treat it like a hobby project | Mar 14 23:22 |
| schestowitz | Though I'd love to see benchmark | Mar 14 23:23 |
| schestowitz | Compiler benchmarks (not Windows) | Mar 14 23:23 |
| seller_liar | how many years old the portland software have? | Mar 14 23:23 |
| oiaohm | icc and portland use a releated C and C++ frount end. | Mar 14 23:23 |
| oiaohm | This year portland group is 25 seller_liar | Mar 14 23:23 |
| oiaohm | Yes many hours of work have gone into there optimizer. | Mar 14 23:24 |
| seller_liar | can you give me a link | Mar 14 23:24 |
| oiaohm | http://www.pgroup.com/ They are already working on auto off loading to gpu. | Mar 14 23:25 |
| oiaohm | Portland group is what gcc has to catch. | Mar 14 23:26 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: is proprietary | Mar 14 23:27 |
| seller_liar | gcc have less resources and people researching | Mar 14 23:27 |
| seller_liar | I think the real problem is lack of dependant code | Mar 14 23:29 |
| seller_liar | we must more specific code | Mar 14 23:29 |
| balzac | that's why GNU & the FSF need to shake down the fat cats | Mar 14 23:29 |
| seller_liar | use liboil a bit more and spend more time wrintiing repetitive but specific code | Mar 14 23:29 |
| balzac | an unprecedented fundraiser | Mar 14 23:29 |
| seller_liar | people focus a lot in portability | Mar 14 23:29 |
| seller_liar | but people forget code optimization | Mar 14 23:30 |
| oiaohm | Do I really care about proprietary when I need performance. | Mar 14 23:30 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: but , portland have more money and researching | Mar 14 23:30 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: gcc 4.4 will be better | Mar 14 23:31 |
| oiaohm | Portland group also did not stuff up there design from the get go. | Mar 14 23:31 |
| oiaohm | When gcc gets its core defects out we may see some true performance it of it. | Mar 14 23:31 |
| oiaohm | Then people will wake up how badly msvc suxs in optimiser. | Mar 14 23:32 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: I don know.... | Mar 14 23:32 |
| oiaohm | Lack of link time optimiser is a key defect. | Mar 14 23:32 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: But the better thing which we have do is to write more specific code | Mar 14 23:32 |
| balzac | pgroup: are they M$-affiliated? | Mar 14 23:32 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: you are a 'pragmatist' right? | Mar 14 23:32 |
| oiaohm | pgroup is cross platform balzac. | Mar 14 23:33 |
| schestowitz | What you don't world is compiler 'lockin' | Mar 14 23:33 |
| schestowitz | A world of a monopoly where one company controls how programs are built | Mar 14 23:33 |
| oiaohm | pgroup does not lock you in. There compliers are pure standard. | Mar 14 23:33 |
| schestowitz | gcc decentralises | Mar 14 23:33 |
| balzac | what license is their compiler published under? | Mar 14 23:33 |
| oiaohm | proprietary balzac | Mar 14 23:34 |
| schestowitz | HowYaFeelPUNK Public icence | Mar 14 23:34 |
| oiaohm | gcc has not passed C99 either yet. | Mar 14 23:34 |
| balzac | hopefully someone inside will release their code as happened to valve, so everyone can benefit | Mar 14 23:34 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: maybe fsf need more resources | Mar 14 23:34 |
| balzac | c99 is probably influenced by money | Mar 14 23:35 |
| schestowitz | Doesn't Intel invest in this too? | Mar 14 23:35 |
| oiaohm | Nop balzac | Mar 14 23:35 |
| schestowitz | They try to make gcc work better with processors | Mar 14 23:35 |
| oiaohm | C99 was design to get around issues of C | Mar 14 23:35 |
| schestowitz | The h/w makers of sorts.... | Mar 14 23:35 |
| oiaohm | More focus of resources seller_liar | Mar 14 23:35 |
| balzac | hardware compatibility is a battle-ground in which proprietary, open source, and free software struggle for market-share. | Mar 14 23:36 |
| oiaohm | Lot of optmiser work is going into edge optmisations that are not going to give much. | Mar 14 23:36 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: yes,Have you tried to contact gcc devs? | Mar 14 23:36 |
| oiaohm | with gcc | Mar 14 23:36 |
| balzac | if there are any good tricks which can be taken from pgroup by reverse-engineering, that's nice | Mar 14 23:37 |
| oiaohm | http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/Link... Link time optimisation is being very hard to add to gcc. | Mar 14 23:38 |
| balzac | but I'm neither excited nor worried about compatibility with the latest hardware | Mar 14 23:38 |
| oiaohm | Reason programmers hacked around the core engine of gcc to make stuff work. | Mar 14 23:38 |
| balzac | gamers can worry about this, video and rich-media people can worry about this. | Mar 14 23:38 |
| oiaohm | Gcc is basically having a massive internal cleam up so Link Time Optimisation can work. | Mar 14 23:39 |
| oiaohm | The internal mess also caused gcc to be slower than it should have been and eat more ram that is should have. | Mar 14 23:39 |
| balzac | oh well... it's good enough for a lot of things | Mar 14 23:39 |
| balzac | it will continue to improve | Mar 14 23:40 |
| oiaohm | Basically people have been optmising the out put of gcc and forgetting to clean up gcc it self. | Mar 14 23:40 |
| oiaohm | Some focus is on fixing up gcc itself. | Mar 14 23:40 |
| balzac | every so often, a project needs its core re-factored | Mar 14 23:40 |
| oiaohm | Gcc case would not have been needed if people did not just code in a bypass to the main struct. | Mar 14 23:41 |
| oiaohm | The bypass also limited what gcc optmisation engines could do. | Mar 14 23:41 |
| oiaohm | Core design of gcc basically kicks itself hard. | Mar 14 23:41 |
| balzac | I'm looking forward to the longsoon processors | Mar 14 23:42 |
| balzac | and arm processors | Mar 14 23:42 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: We can use more specific code as temporaty solution | Mar 14 23:42 |
| balzac | eating into the market-share of those hardware manufacturers who've been enabling proprietary software monopoly | Mar 14 23:42 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: specific code is the better solution for more speed | Mar 14 23:42 |
| schestowitz | > balzac> every so often, a project needs its core re-factored | Mar 14 23:43 |
| schestowitz | KDE3, GNOME3, OOo tokeniser.. | Mar 14 23:43 |
| schestowitz | OOo antialiasing (almost half a million lines of code changed).. | Mar 14 23:43 |
| seller_liar | liboil for exampple create a lot of simple algos for each type of archictecture | Mar 14 23:43 |
| Balrog_ | seller_liar: not a good idea | Mar 14 23:43 |
| seller_liar | why? | Mar 14 23:43 |
| Balrog_ | (fine in a compiler; not in your software) | Mar 14 23:43 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 14 23:44 |
| Balrog_ | look at early Mac OS | Mar 14 23:44 |
| schestowitz | But that's not the point | Mar 14 23:44 |
| schestowitz | algos are also ASMs | Mar 14 23:44 |
| Balrog_ | was almost 100% M68K ASM | Mar 14 23:44 |
| schestowitz | So I think he meant something else | Mar 14 23:44 |
| Balrog_ | hand-coded | Mar 14 23:44 |
| seller_liar | for example we can create code for x86 , x8664 and arm | Mar 14 23:44 |
| schestowitz | In HL P/L ????? | Mar 14 23:44 |
| seller_liar | we can create 3 or 4 instances of same code | Mar 14 23:44 |
| schestowitz | bad idea | Mar 14 23:44 |
| seller_liar | why? | Mar 14 23:44 |
| balzac | IF YOU OTHERWISE TRANSFER POSSESSION OF ANY COPY, | Mar 14 23:45 |
| balzac | MODIFICATION OR MERGED PORTION OF THE PROGRAM TO ANOTHER | Mar 14 23:45 |
| balzac | PARTY, YOUR LICENSE IS AUTOMATICALLY TERMINATED. | Mar 14 23:45 |
| Balrog_ | bad for maintenance | Mar 14 23:45 |
| oiaohm | Classic case was found in reactos when complier works custom code for a solution can workout way slower than letting the complier do it. | Mar 14 23:45 |
| balzac | nice use of all caps in the portland groups EULA | Mar 14 23:45 |
| Balrog_ | fix one version, woun't fix other | Mar 14 23:45 |
| Balrog_ | s/u/ | Mar 14 23:45 |
| seller_liar | We repeat only 10% of software | Mar 14 23:45 |
| Balrog_ | you have three branches to maintain, rather than one | Mar 14 23:45 |
| Balrog_ | and if it's time-critical code? | Mar 14 23:46 |
| seller_liar | for example , we optimize only the most used parts of software | Mar 14 23:46 |
| seller_liar | we don t optimize everything | Mar 14 23:46 |
| oiaohm | Means to get more speed by doing blocks of asm when it could be done in C or some other lang is a clear sign of a complier optimiser problem. | Mar 14 23:46 |
| seller_liar | only 10% odf software | Mar 14 23:46 |
| balzac | Notwithstanding the above language, You acknowledge that as part of the | Mar 14 23:47 |
| balzac | Software you may receive Run-Time Libraries in the form of Microsoft Foundation | Mar 14 23:47 |
| balzac | Classes (MFCs), Active Template Libraries (ATLs), and/or “C” Runtime files (CRTs) | Mar 14 23:47 |
| balzac | in binary form only (“Microsoft Distributable Code”). You acknowledge that you | Mar 14 23:47 |
| balzac | have the right to that Microsoft Distributable Code to design, develop or test for use | Mar 14 23:47 |
| balzac | with the Software only. | Mar 14 23:47 |
| balzac | portland group is distributing M$ code | Mar 14 23:47 |
| Balrog_ | once you're stuck with specific-to-platform code, it's terribly hard to port | Mar 14 23:47 |
| oiaohm | You can get a licence for that stuff balzac | Mar 14 23:47 |
| oiaohm | From mainsoft that happens to make cross platform versions. | Mar 14 23:48 |
| balzac | I would not touch it with a ten-foot pole | Mar 14 23:48 |
| schestowitz | I dn't trust mainsoft | Mar 14 23:48 |
| schestowitz | Mono chums | Mar 14 23:48 |
| balzac | I think the only value it could possibly have is to be reverse-engineered a bit for possible new approaches to be used in GCC | Mar 14 23:49 |
| schestowitz | .NET and stuff... marrying Microsoft with... stuff | Mar 14 23:49 |
| oiaohm | Really nothing porland group does is that special balzac | Mar 14 23:49 |
| balzac | but reverse-engineering can be a waste of time too. | Mar 14 23:49 |
| oiaohm | Its a simple core design things right. | Mar 14 23:49 |
| balzac | oiaohm: I believe you. | Mar 14 23:49 |
| Balrog_ | oiaohm: so what do *you* think about LLVM and Clang? | Mar 14 23:50 |
| balzac | The all-caps portions of the license remind me of an American tourist in a foreign country, talking loud and slow to people. | Mar 14 23:50 |
| oiaohm | llvm is along the right path. Clang also along the right path. | Mar 14 23:50 |
| Balrog_ | all-caps are harder to read | Mar 14 23:50 |
| Balrog_ | the license is BSDtype though | Mar 14 23:51 |
| oiaohm | llvm and clang have fairly clean designs for what they do. | Mar 14 23:51 |
| Balrog_ | s/Dt/D t | Mar 14 23:51 |
| oiaohm | People forget BSD have there own complier not gcc for the simple reason how much memory and researchs gcc eats up building stuff. | Mar 14 23:51 |
| schestowitz | Breaking/Flashing: T-Mobile G1 Fire Sale: Handsets Under $80 < http://jkontherun.com/2009/03/13/t-m... > | Mar 14 23:52 |
| oiaohm | gcc is the most bloated complier in existance due to its design flaws. | Mar 14 23:52 |
| Balrog_ | what compiler does BSD use? | Mar 14 23:52 |
| Balrog_ | (Apple uses GCC, but is contributing heavily to LLVM / Clang, by the way) | Mar 14 23:52 |
| benJIman | You can get them for free on Tmobile here | Mar 14 23:52 |
| Balrog_ | benJIman: where? | Mar 14 23:53 |
| benJIman | Tmobile shop. | Mar 14 23:53 |
| benJIman | It's only on the €£30 a month tariff. | Mar 14 23:53 |
| schestowitz | 'Free' | Mar 14 23:53 |
| Balrog_ | country? | Mar 14 23:53 |
| *kentma1 (n=user@host81-157-148-240.range81-157.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 14 23:53 | |
| schestowitz | Like free puppy | Mar 14 23:53 |
| Balrog_ | it's not free | Mar 14 23:53 |
| *kentma has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | Mar 14 23:53 | |
| Balrog_ | rather subsidized | Mar 14 23:53 |
| schestowitz | Get your hands washed... lots of poop and dog food coming | Mar 14 23:54 |
| schestowitz | Sub-notebooks adopt similar methods | Mar 14 23:54 |
| schestowitz | iPhone too | Mar 14 23:54 |
| benJIman | N97 out soon. I doubt I'll upgrade my n800 yet though. | Mar 14 23:54 |
| schestowitz | It ain't $400 | Mar 14 23:54 |
| Balrog_ | iphone is like $500-$700 without a contract | Mar 14 23:54 |
| schestowitz | with bars | Mar 14 23:55 |
| benJIman | Still? The hardware is not worth that any more, it was whewn it was first released. | Mar 14 23:55 |
| oiaohm | bsd complier Balrog that very had to find. Its used basically to audit source code before wasted the time passing programs through gcc. | Mar 14 23:55 |
| Balrog_ | hard..??? | Mar 14 23:55 |
| benJIman | http://www.youtube.com/wa... | Mar 14 23:55 |
| Balrog_ | oh, the BSD compiler | Mar 14 23:55 |
| Balrog_ | not what FreeBSD and NetBSD use... | Mar 14 23:55 |
| Balrog_ | and OpenBSD | Mar 14 23:55 |
| oiaohm | OpenBSD and NetBSD use it for time saving. | Mar 14 23:56 |
| Balrog_ | you mean like Sun's compiler, which produces much slower code than GCC? | Mar 14 23:56 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : gcc 4 is rather good | Mar 14 23:56 |
| schestowitz | benJIman: nice, but Pre is coming too | Mar 14 23:56 |
| oiaohm | _Hicham_: you are talking about a person who has been in the internals og gcc. | Mar 14 23:57 |
| oiaohm | og/of | Mar 14 23:57 |
| _Hicham_ | why didn't u contribute to it ? | Mar 14 23:57 |
| _Hicham_ | gcc is open | Mar 14 23:57 |
| oiaohm | That why I went through the source code in the first place _Hicham_ | Mar 14 23:58 |
| oiaohm | Both binutils and gcc have had code added against there base design. | Mar 14 23:59 |
| _Hicham_ | well, u can even propose a complete design change | Mar 14 23:59 |
| oiaohm | binutils cannot support all platforms from one any anymore. | Mar 14 23:59 |
| _Hicham_ | but propose also a migration scheme | Mar 14 23:59 |
| oiaohm | Due to cpu/platform dependant alterations being done in the wrong places. | Mar 14 23:59 |
