Re: Splitting Debian into two projects

[Jim Pick <jim@jimpick.com>]

> > Consensus isn't democracy though - far from it.  It's just a process,
> > and in the end, a decision is made.  Benevolent dictators can use
> > consensus to affect their goals.
> 
> I'm inclined to go back to this style of leadership. It worked fine for
> years.
> 
> One problem is that running a democratic organization it's very difficult
> to simply tell someone to shut up and make it stick. I think that sometimes
> we really need to do that.

killfiles...

> > But maybe he's not the guy to do the actual politicking.
> 
> I really don't need it. I don't see another candidate yet. I don't think
> Dan Quinlan's ready. Brian White is a good technical manager, but he does
> not have the dedication to free software that I think is critical for the
> job.

It's tough to be 100% dedicated to free software, and still put food on
the table.  I had an interesting flamewar with RMS once over this same
issue.  So I think it's almost a given that everybody has their own
"hidden agendas" as to what Debian should be.  I'd like to see some more
of them come out in the open.

> > Maybe it's time we started talking about what people's visions, plans,
> > and aspirations for the project are.
> 
> I think we have to go deeper than this. For example Simon Shapiro told
> me today (actually, he was threatening to sue me) that he thought I wanted
> to take over free software in order to make money. This seems to be the
> conspiracy theory that's going around. It's just nutty, but we have to
> get it out of people's heads or get the people where they won't bother
> others.

Sounds like some more mis-communication to me.  I can see your point about
not drinking a beer everytime someone attacks you -- or you'd be really
pissed right about now.  :-)

I sort of know where you are coming from though, in terms of mixing
commercial and free software.  I, too, was contemplating building a 
RH-like commercially marketing distribution based on Debian.  But it's 
sort of a difficult thing to pull off when people can buy a Debian CD 
for $1.99.  Without a really clear business case, it's impossible to 
sink real money into something like this.

In a way, though, that's good.  Maybe we should just let Red Hat make the
money off of the shrink-wrapped Linux market.  I think that Debian could
really make a big difference in a world where people don't buy CD's, but
rather just download it off the Internet.  That's how I installed it,
by running the mirror program in Slackware to grab all of the files, then
I installed it on a new hard drive.  I think the Debian crowd is much
more "in-tune" with this method of software distribution than anyone else
(with the possible exception of the FreeBSD folks).  It's also interesting,
because Microsoft is gradually moving to online distribution themselves.
Eventually, it will be the dominant way of getting and upgrading software,
and we've got a system that works now.  I've got a 24-hour internet link,
so it was quite convenient.  Most people don't have this luxury yet, but
they will in 2-3 years.

I'm still considering building a business concerning itself with adapting
Debian to several vertical markets.  The low cost per unit ($0), high
quality, and networkability really opens the doors on markets that 
never existed before.  That's where the money is -- but only if you 
bundle it in as part of some larger solution.

Anyways, I think that any commercially based products based on Debian
would have to be done at an arms length from the real project.  Otherwise,
problems will arise.

Actually, that's the primary reason I haven't stepped forward to 
volunteer for anything political - there would probably be a huge
conflict of interest if I then turned around and made some money off
of incorporating Debian technology into some of my products.

I'd really, really like to see Debian (or a controlling organization)
incorporated as a non-profit.  That way, things are more or less written
in stone that the project exists for the good of free software, and not
to make money for a special interest.

Once again, I've written too much...

Cheers,

 - Jim

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