The debian-private mailing list leak, part 1. Volunteers have complained about Blackmail. Lynchings. Character assassination. Defamation. Cyberbullying. Volunteers who gave many years of their lives are picked out at random for cruel social experiments. The former DPL's girlfriend Molly de Blanc is given volunteers to experiment on for her crazy talks. These volunteers never consented to be used like lab rats. We don't either. debian-private can no longer be a safe space for the cabal. Let these monsters have nowhere to hide. Volunteers are not disposable. We stand with the victims.
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Re: voting system

>>"Ioannis" == Ioannis Tambouras <ioannis@flinet.com> writes:

>>  They have to be subjects that they already agree with one another,
>>  for if they differ in anything, we will not say that they know
>>  it. Builders agree about the proper attachment of the roof and the
>>  trainer of horses agree which of the horses are good runners or
>>  not.
 >>  Huh.  So if experts don't agree, then they're not experts?

 Ioannis> None of them err except in times when they make a mistake,
 Ioannis> during which they cease to be skilled artists.

	Then this is against all priciplea of art that I know of. The
 only area in which such certainity is achievable mybe mathematics,
 whenever real life and experimentation/observation are involved there
 are uncertainities, and room for disagreement. 

 >> I've worked with builders (and professors) I'd consider quite
 >> experienced, and they certainly don't always agree on exactly how
 >> a particular task should be accomplished.

 Ioannis> Suppose that we just calmly consider whether any of these
 Ioannis> was such as you have described. Will not the goods
 Ioannis> professors, render advice on issues according to some some
 Ioannis> standard which is the knowledge of their field. And is not
 Ioannis> always the case that those knowledgable agree with each
 Ioannis> other on all issues of the field, and disagree perhaps in
 Ioannis> just a few and not on all aspects. And even when
 Ioannis> disagreable, are they not able to convince one another in on
 Ioannis> admitted principles, for these artists disagree in few
 Ioannis> issues only and never disagree in all and everything.

	This is (IMHO) an extremely  simplistic viewpoint. Either that
 or one of us is not qualified to be in this discussion, for we
 disagree, and thus one of us is not expert enough to comment on
 this. ;-) ;-)

 Ioannis> Skilled artists are able to agree with one another on most
 Ioannis> issues, and accordingly they render advice in what their
 Ioannis> name implies. Though they are commonly said to err, and I
 Ioannis> adopted the common mode of speaking. But to be perfectly
 Ioannis> accurate, since you are such a lover of accuracy, we should
 Ioannis> rather say that knowlegable builders and professors are
 Ioannis> unerring and, being unerring, always provide good
 Ioannis> advise. And therefore, as I said at first and now repeat, we
 Ioannis> should head to the advice of those who know and not to the
 Ioannis> advice of the many.

	By that definition, we do not have any knowledeable experts,
 at least on this planet. 

	Things are rarely absolute; and there are shades of grey, and
 multiple clashing agendas in any debate of any note.  You very rarely
 get experts in the field to agree totally on any thing (have you ever
 been on a standards committee? And seen the bickering that goes on
 amongst acknowledged experts ni the field?)

	manoj
 who misses the certitude and confidence of his youth.
-- 
 "From an operating system research point of view, Unix is -- if not
 dead -- certainly old stuff, and it's clear that people should be
 looking beyond it." Dennis Ritchie, coinventor of Unix, Usenix
 keynote speech from Summer 1990 [and no, that doesn't mean to VMS,
 MS-DOS or OS/2 -cookie ed.]
Manoj Srivastava               <url:mailto:srivasta@acm.org>
Mobile, Alabama USA            <url:http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/>