Re: really rough first draft of release announcement

[Christian Meder <christian.meder@utoronto.ca>]

On May 29, Bruce Perens wrote
> From: Jim Pick <jim@jimpick.com>
> > Too many exclamation points!!!!
> 
> They are gone.

That's better.

> 
> > It could be a bit shorter.
> 
> > I'd cut out the bit about the shuttle - it's cool, but I don't think
> > people will consider it particularily relevant.
> 
> I'd really like to keep it.  It's just two lines. It says something
> about the quality of the system. As a volunteer I feel darned proud
> that my software has made it to orbit, and I think it's good bait for
> new volunteers.

But the sentence with "Debian space missions" is a perhaps a bit too
strong. I didn't know that we are operating space mission ;-) 

> 
> > Mention "alien", but don't dwell so much on it.
> 
> OK
> 
>     We were the first to provide automatic conversion of package types,
>     and you can automaticaly convert between RPM, Slackware, and Debian
>     packages.

Look at Joey's proposal for clarification.

> 
> > Mention that requests for help on debian-user almost always get answered
> > within minutes - usually with positive results.  Actually, our
> > user community is probably the best thing about Debian.
> 
> debian-user-REQUEST@lists.debian.org
>     There are a lot of experienced users on this list who can answer
>     any question you might have. Questions are often answered in minutes,
>     with positive results. There can be 50 messages a day or more on this
>     list.
> 
> Should I move this higher?

I would move it higher. IMHO the user community is one of our big
advantages and we have got a friendly and helpful atmosphere on debian-user.

> 
> > "KEEPING LINUX FREE" sounds too much like we're accusing the other
> > distributions of being proprietary.
> 
> Well, I was. Snotty me. I pulled it out.

I second this, too.

> 
> > Perhaps we should emphasize that
> > we have the largest code-base of free software of any distribution
> > (at least I think we do).
> 
> I said "The largest linux distribution" in the bullet points. Do you
> have more text to suggest?
> 
> > The theme of this release should be "reliability, testing"
> 
> Uh-oh. Someone just asked me to tone that down. Did I do so too
> much?

IMHO it's just right now.

> 
> > Mention that it can be easily installed, and upgraded, directly off
> > the Internet via dpkg-ftp.
> 
> 	You can upgrade automaticaly via FTP, or from CD or hard disk.

I think an important Debian advantage compared to RedHat's ftp install
is that we don't have to search in any archives when upgrading. Our
central packages file does allow selective ftp downloading and
automatic comparison in dselect. With Redhat AFAIK you have to grap
either the whole archive or search yourself in the directories for the
packages you want.

> 
> > You forgot the "bug system" - Red Hat doesn't have one.
> 
> Huh? I thought they copied ours. Did they take it offline?
>

Do they really have one ? The Redhat users I know don't know anything
about a bug system. I think we should advertise our bug handling. 
Something like:

* our bug-list is publically available and we encourage all Debian
users to give feedback to the Debian maintainers via the bug handling
system and so to help fixing bugs or improving packages 
 
> 	* We don't keep our bug-list secret - it's on our web server.

Ehem, that sounds like back in the Cold War when secret agents were
all over the place ;-)

> 
> > I'd like it if we could somehow convince the developer community that
> > is creating "contrib RPM's" for Red Hat that they would be better off
> > developing for Debian instead - ie. inclusion in the base distribution,
> > the bug system, wide distribution, not making money for someone else,
> > supportive user and developer community, fame and recognition,
> > more of a global focus, etc.

This is a very good point.

> 
> Can someone contribute text about this, please? It might be appropriate
> for a subsequent announcement.
> 
> > It would be good to mention how much momentum we have going for us.
> > Compare the number of packages in Debian 1.2 to the number of packages
> > in Debian 1.3.
> 
> Unless I'm confused, it's only about 125 more. Is that a lot?

What do you mean with ONLY 125 ? Try maintaining 125 packages ;-)

Another point which is IMHO an distinguishing feature about Debian is
our goal of integration of the whole system. This goal produces such
terrific packages like our menu system (thanks, Joost) or dwww
(thanks, Jim and previously Lars). Debian isn't only concerned with
package management but reaching further ... (ugly marketing english
;-)

This paragraph shouldn't give the impression that I want to neglect
the dpkg work which is done.
In fact my impression is that Klee puts a lot of work in dpkg at the
moment (thanks).

Anyway just to state my point again: we should mention this work
towards system integration which is pretty unique to Debian.

Last note: 
probably we should even include Dale's upgrade notes to ease our lives
on debian-user later ;-)
forwarded from Dale's message on debian-bugs:

_____________________  upgrade instructions  _________________________
To get a smooth upgrade from 1.1 or 1.2 make sure to install the following,
by hand:

        dpkg -i ldso<version>.deb
        dpkg -i libc5<version>.deb
        dpkg -i dpkg<version>.deb
        dpkg --purge --force-depends texbin
        dselect

Any move from a previous release version will REQUIRE the upgrade of dpkg
before additional packages can be upgraded. This is because of the fact
that dpkg didn't work with epochs (a method of reseting version numbering)
and the version in this release can deal with them. Dpkg depends on libc5
and it is always a good idea to upgrade ldso before any other package.
           
Once the dselect phase has begun the user must be prepaired to run install
"many" times to resolve the dependency conflicts. When I did a standard
upgrade of the 1.1.13 release to 1.3, Install had to be run four times
before all packages upgraded. Although this process generates lots of
errors they should, for the most part, be totally ignored, as they are
artifacts of package order during the install phase.

Guy noted additionally: 
You should also add the command `dpkg --clear-avail' first.  That's
needed if someone has already done a dselect Upgrade.

Greetings,

				Christian


-- 
Christian Meder, email: christian.meder@utoronto.ca

What's the railroad to me ?
I never go to see
Where it ends.
It fills a few hollows,
And makes banks for the swallows, 
It sets the sand a-blowing,
And the blackberries a-growing.
                      (Henry David Thoreau)


--
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to
debian-private-request@lists.debian.org . 
Trouble?  e-mail to templin@bucknell.edu .