quick install method (was Re: Deity project schedule problems)

[Craig Sanders <cas@taz.net.au>]

On Sat, 20 Sep 1997, Bruce Perens wrote:

> I'm sorry to bring you all bad news, but the Deity project is having
> schedule problems. [...deleted...]
>
> I had planned for us to roll out Deity in 2.0, this was dependent on a
> beta test in November, not very long from now. There's a chance we'll
> make that milestone if Jason works really hard.

i have a suggestion to make:

if deity is not going to be ready for the release of 2.0, then we need
a simple perl/sh script wrapper around 'dpkg --set-selections' so we
can offer an extremely quick install. maybe it could even use dialog
for tick-a-box style installation (i hesitate to suggest this because I
*loathe* dialog - but it IS what is used on the install floppies).

after base installation and reboot, drop the user into a menu offering
one of a number of pre-tested dselect selection sets (plus an "expert"
option to run dselect).

the recent thread in here about the iX magazine review highlights why we
need something like this, and need it NOW.

IMO it doesn't have to be perfect, it doesn't have to have all the bells
and whistles, it doesn't even have to be "Good"<tm>. it just has to work
and save people some time...the aim is to cut down the install time
from 3 or 4 hours (about what the first-time debian user will spend in
dselect going through 1400+ packages) to half an hour or so.

dselect isn't too hard to learn (IMO), but with so many packages in
debian now it really is throwing newbies into the deep end before they
even get started. when i'm teaching people about debian and dselect, i
find that the hardest thing is for people to get over their awe at just
how many packages there are to be installed (and by extension how many
things there are for them to have to know and learn). too much choice
can make it nearly impossible to choose...especially when you have no
idea what a package is or why you might want it.

anyway, that's a digression. back to the point...here's some suggested
sets:

    "basic system"
          not much more than base. (may not be useful..might be better
          to have "net client" as the default selection set)

    "internet client"
          netbase, netstd, and friends

    "internet server"
          wu-ftpd, apache, others.

    "X workstation"
          X + basic X clients.  svga server or query user for card type.
          IMO it would safe to assume "internet client" as well.  offer
          choice of windows managers, or just pick whichever you prefer as
          default (IMO fvwm95 because it'll be more familiar to newbies -
          non newbies can easily pick whatever they prefer)

    "Text-only Games"
        including net games stuff like tf mud client and ircii

    "X Games"
        again, including networked games stuff

    "TeX"

    "C/C++ development"

    "X development"

    "java development" (or maybe not since jdk is non-free)

    etc.

these selection sets should be compatible and cumulative.  i.e. you can pick
"internet client" + "internet server" + "X windows workstation".

it may be worthwhile breaking down things like "internet client" into
"mail client", "basic internet clients" and "other net clients". maybe
not...the higher the granularity, the more work involved, and the less
benefit for the user (we already have all the granularity we need with
.deb packages :-)

IMO it is better to have LESS choices at this stage. after all, this is
only a quick-install method. anything else can be installed with dselect
or dpkg later (and that SHOULD be emphasised to the user, that this is
only a shortcut to make their first-time install faster and easier).



i estimate that a quick hack solution to do this should take no
more than a few days. avoid arguments over what goes into each set
by adopting the first (or the "best" - anyone volunteer to judge?)
selection set provided by any developer (or user - there's an idea for
getting some user involvement in debian dev).

i don't think that it needs to be any more than a "quick hack" because it's
only a stop-gap solution until deity gets here.

Rule of Thumb: only packages in main can be in the selection sets. no
contrib, no non-free, no non-us.

2nd Rule of Thumb: selection sets to be minimalist. only the bare
minimum needed to fulfil the promise of the description to be included.
"bare minimum" is defined by the person who actually puts in the work to
create and test a selection set.

3rd Rule: all selection sets subject to the usual testing team and
release management procedures which worked so well for us last time.
(btw, belated congrats to you all - you did a great job)

comments?

craig

--
craig sanders
networking consultant                  Available for casual or contract
temporary autonomous zone              system administration tasks.


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